Comments on: Death Ray Walks Away

By: DF

DF — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:09:42 +0000

there is so much conflicting information coming out about this stuff, it smells of a disinformation campaign mixed in with everything else.

one thing to think about is that of course no one is forced like from the mafia to do things, its all about very intense pressures, peer pressures and all the heavy mind games going down.
and when you are spending 10 grand, and you are told you have to play full out to get the full experience, that also drives people too far, as they don’t want to miss out, that is another club used on them.
so its not good to oversimply it, but to try to understand the full process.

its all about knowing how to manipulate people to do what you want them to do, without them knowing you are manipulating them, and even thinking it was their own idea.
learn how to become a talented manipulator, and you can make millions too.

By: Disgusted Insider

Disgusted Insider — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:12:38 +0000

I attended Creating Absolute Wealth in December 2008. Several busses dropped us off near downtown San Diego with instructions to not make any contact whatsoever with other attendees. We were suppose to all disperse and separate from each other and if we came upon someone from the group, we were to ignore and pretend not to see them. So separation from the group was expected. Not only that, we were told that we could not tell anyone that we were attending a seminar, we had to stay “in character”. So we spent 3 hours walking the streets of SD trying to look inconspicuous ( I think there was about 350 of us “homeless” people converging on SD, how would we not be conspicuous?). We were told to meet at a certain time back at the place where the bus had dropped us off originally. We had no buddies assigned to keep track of each other. By the way, we had no water, food, money, cell phones, watches or ID. A map would have been nice since I was not from SD. Nothing but ragged clothes and the dirt that had been smeared on our faces and clothes by the JRI staff and Dream Team. Oh and women had to remove all makeup and jewelry. They also glopped our hair with gel to make us look not only homeless but crazy psycho I never take a shower homeless as well. And they didn’t confiscate our phones and ID, we got our homeless clothing in the classroom and then went back to our rooms to change and leave our stuff there. The only thing I took with me was my room key, which I put in my shoe. One other thing, they gave us an emergency card with a phone number on it. I guess we were suppose to beg for a quarter and locate a pay phone or maybe steal a cellphone just in case something bad happened . That’s the way it was. I’ve been to 6 JR events and CAW was not my favorite. No, I did not attend SW. That would have been the pinnacle event and I was thinking of attending next year…..until the horrific tragedy. I honestly don’t know why I am writing this, I never comment in these forums. But there’s alot of misperception about what happens in the events and about the people who attend, I just felt the need to provide some actual facts. Oh, and I just remembered, you weren’t forced to do this, I know at least one person who stayed in their room. So JRI did not force anyone to participate or take attendance of who did or didn’t go. And there were 3 total outings during the event.
I think it’s inconceivable that they would sweep Colleen’s death under the rug and party down that night but it appears they did. I am so sickened and repulsed by James and his staff’s behavior regarding Colleen and the Sedona tragedy that I have completely disavowed myself from all of them. He was my teacher and I trusted him, many people did. We were all betrayed. But there are many of his students still in denial about this. They are still standing by him. That will soon change. His kingdom is crumbling around him and there is nothing he can do about it. He is powerless to reverse the damage. He has taught us to be impeccable in our word and deed, to take responsibility for our actions or inactions. But he is not walking the talk. The biggest challenge is for me to separate the teacher from the teachings because much of the knowledge he has given us (for a more than nominal price) is good and will serve us for the rest of our lives. But everything associated with him is now tainted with blood so I am struggling with what to do with all the materials I have bought from him. I thought about a bonfire but I think I will give myself time to cool off and think about it.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:16:01 +0000

“Some of the most insidious forms of narcissism are perpetrated by spiritual teachers and gurus.”
… but that would be thinking very negatively now wouldn’t it?

By: canyouexplainthisplease

canyouexplainthisplease — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:59:35 +0000

Hey Lynn, I think you’ve edited your post since I first saw it this evening – you had the link to the article and mentioned something about what they were telling your friend about making stuff up about being an expert and Ali Brown. I wanted to answer it then but did something else, came back and found it gone so I will do so now. That is what they do and I’ve traced it for several of her girls.

Quick example: Check out http://rockstarweddingplanner.com/. That girl was in the beginner program last year with no biz or website and stepped up to the top tier this year. She was successful because she sold herself out as a coach to others in the wedding planning biz with no online presence or lead gen – despite having no successful wedding biz herself . She used Ali’s stuff to help them get online like she did. Here is an example of one her students this year: http://www.nataliebradley.com/Home.html.

Check out some of Fabienne Fredickson’s stuff and get on her list if you want to watch some real cult like stuff. She’s one of Ali’s former top students.

By: Lynn

Lynn — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:39:57 +0000

Really–could this say it any better? It doesn’t just speak to James Ray’s outsized ego, but to why so many probably decent people could be fooled. My first reaction was along the lines of ‘how could they be taken so easily” with the implication that I’m smarter than that. But there is usually something very subtle and deceptive going on (along with implied promises of ‘enlightenment’ and real happiness–and monetary wealth) that we aren’t tuned into unless we’ve experienced this level of deception before. As I mentioned in another post, I have a friend who is ‘being taken’, I think, by some excellent marketers who also speak of ‘higher purpose’ and other psycho babble. The bolds are mine:

We find narcissists everywhere—in our boardrooms, with spouses, ex-spouses, family members, bosses, co-workers, friends. Most of us don’t expect to discover them among spiritual mentors and gurus. A number of years ago the great sociologist, Christopher Lasch prophetically announced: “In a dying culture, narcissism appears to embody—in the guise of personal ‘growth’ and ‘awareness’—the highest attainment of spiritual enlightenment.” Many of us make the assumption that if an individual has theological credentials or training in spiritual disciplines, he or she is authentic. Some of the most insidious forms of narcissism are perpetrated by spiritual teachers and gurus.
There are as many styles and levels of narcissistic spiritual gurus as there are spiritual movements. They range from the itinerant preacher type a la Elmer Gantry to the most educated, highly trained individuals who create worldwide movements and success through their foundations, seminars, numerous books, dvds, cds, and media appearances. Being respected in the world does not mean that an individual cannot be a narcissistic spiritual guru who brings psychological and monetary injury to others.
The narcissistic guru (male or female) is often dynamic and charismatic. He magnetizes individuals to him with an irresistible persona that conveys that he possesses unique spiritual gifts and has access to secrets that will lead to higher levels of consciousness. The skilled narcissistic guru assesses which individuals will be receptive to joining his spiritual circle. He fixates his attention on the prospective member, communicating to him that he is special and indispensable. These gurus use riveting eye contact. Their gestures, tone of voice, all of their nonverbal cues are focused on their target. Narcissistic spiritual gurus are superb actors (who often believe their own performances). They appeal to that part of us that is emotionally vulnerable, feeling deprived or unworthy. Some of us are seeking a magic key or formula that will lead us beyond suffering—that ego voice that wants to feel all powerful, without limits—godlike. All of those who fall under the spell of the narcissistic spiritual guru are not ignorant or naïve. The high-level narcissistic spiritual teacher possesses dynamic and intuitive powers that seduce and fool many people. Despite their allure and tempting promises, there are warning signs that a spiritual teacher is more dedicated to making himself powerful and affluent than helping his devotees:
1. Pay attention to the money barometer. Does the guru charge exorbitant fees for his services?
2. Is there continuing pressure placed on members to sign up for ongoing expensive programs? The not so hidden message here is: the more courses you take with us, the holier you will become. This can be called a pay to pray or pay to be holy spiritual scheme.
3. Another observation is that devotees often venerate the guru, reflexively obeying him. Having been deluded by their charismatic leader, they are no longer capable of independent thinking.
4. The narcissistic spiritual guru often uses his closest followers as servants who perform free labor: going on special errands, cleaning their residences, arranging public events. The loyal devotee considers these requests as a privilege and evidence that they hold an honored place in the guru’s hierarchy.
5. Narcissists play favorites. They pit one member against another to maintain ultimate power and control over their members.
6. Devotees are often mistreated. The slightest mistake can cause ugly scenes of humiliation in front of other group members.
7. Followers who question the spiritual leader or are considered dangerous rivals are excommunicated from the group.
8. The narcissistic guru behaves very differently in his personal life than among his devotees. He is often extremely self indulgent, materialistic, greedy, and in some cases, uses drugs and alcohol to excess. He might engage in sexual exploitation with compliant devotees who are emotionally dependent and vulnerable and psychologically fused with him.
Becoming more spiritually awake and heart centered doesn’t cost money. It requires devotion, discipline, and perseverance despite all the obstacles that come in our path. It’s not a short trip; it’s an adventurous journey.

Linda Martinez-Lewi holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology and is a licensed marriage family therapist. She has extensive clinical training in narcissistic and borderline disorders. Dr. Linda Martinez-Lewi is the author of the book “Freeing Yourself From the Narcissist in Your Life.”
Dr. Martinez-Lewi has worked for many years with patients experiencing psychological problems as a result of personal and professional relationships with narcissistic personality disorders. She has clinical experience treating patients suffering from childhood trauma, anxiety disorders, and depression.
Dr. Martinez-Lewi has been interviewed on numerous radio talk shows throughout the country.
Visit her website at:http://www.thenarcissistinyourlife.com

By: Ryan Healy

Ryan Healy — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:24:08 +0000

So sad.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:14:40 +0000

I am so bloody angry that this was allowed to go this far. Why haven’t the authorities shut the likes of James Ray and David Schirmer and their cronies down BEFORE any of this happened. These people appear to have no qualifications yet they make the most ridiculous claims about their own abilities and get this, they actually believe it. They are the deluded ones and they have been allowed to hold seminars and manipulate people for years without any consequences. There is something very evil about what they do and they will be made to suffer if they aren’t already.

By: Ryan Healy

Ryan Healy — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:13:34 +0000

Great point about checking the videos from the security cameras.

Also: Isn’t leaving the scene of an accident a crime — if you are a witness? Wouldn’t it then also be a crime to leave the scene of a suicide if you either witnessed it or were with that person just prior to the suicide??

Ryan

By: Ryan Healy

Ryan Healy — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:11:44 +0000

It could be argued that Ray actually wanted them to die. The reason I say this is because of the reports that describe Ray playing God and pointing to people and telling them to play dead.

This guy has some serious power-trip issues. Makes me wonder if he’s some kind of Fabian socialist or Malthusian disciple who takes seriously the idea that he needs to control population growth.

Ryan

By: Kronos262

Kronos262 — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:09:17 +0000

And even more…
http://www.kpho.com/news/21362428/detail.html
Excerpt: It was during that altered state that Kurt and hundreds of others did something most people would see as reckless, he said. Participants were required to sign a waiver that released Ray of any responsibility if someone got hurt.
“They had us put the sharp side of the arrow … (a) true, real archery arrow right on the soft part of your neck,” Kurt said. “There’s no bone behind it, just the real soft area .. your trachea is right there and your spine behind it, and you lean forward into the arrow.”As Kurt leaned into the arrow — a challenge designed to make him face his fears — his fear was realized.”When the shaft snapped, a large piece went up under my glasses and penetrated my eyelid,” he said. “(It) just missed my eye by an eighth of an inch. It was a deep cut — probably needed stitches.”"I was greatly concerned,” Laura said. “We could not tell if his eye was intact. It was a bloody mess.”Kurt and Lauren said they believe Ray was not prepared for anything to go wrong.The event did not have the proper medical staff, and it took time for them to dig around for a first aid kit, Kurt said.