James Arthur Ray :: Life Sentence
You know who’s in jail right fucking now?
Orenthal James Simpson
He killed Ron and Nicole … and then walked after a disastrous celebri-trial that made everyone look bad … and locked in Los Angles’ hold on the title of most pathetic and useless American city {sorry Cleveland … you tried}.
But things didn’t really work out for that murdering motherfucker in the end … and that disastrous trial was an important beginning to the long form justice that he was eventually served.
James Arthur Ray was sentenced to two measly years for the horribly painful deaths of three complete innocents. Judge Darrow remained consistently naive of the fundamental reason for James Ray’s presence in his courtroom … intentional life destroying manipulation for profit. It’s quite staggering :: but secret problems are secrets to everyone … including judges and juries and doctors and lawyers and all the other people you think are special that aren’t.
Money talks :: and bullshit … also talks. So if you’ve got both then that’s a lot of talking.
Says the no longer gagged Detective Diskin to the fake robot today …
“I’ve been investigating this case longer than James Ray will spend in prison.”
Ha! It’s not funny … cause it’s true.
Two years isn’t fair … and it isn’t right. But this celebri-trial wasn’t a disaster :: far from it. It was an eye opening :: professionally run thing … that ended with a verdict. Ms. Polk and her people :: and Det. Diskin and his people :: managed to remind us that :: so many times :: good people in the government really are doing a surprisingly good job at doing a good job.
It’s a most excellent start to a war that was NEVER going to be won in one battle.
“But Droid :: now he’ll go right back to scamming!”
Of course he will. Know why? Cause there is a sick machine that doesn’t care what you’ve done … or what you’re doing. It’s organized … and it destroys everything it touches. The sick machine kills :: and it must be stopped … it’s the fight worth fighting.
But James Arthur Ray is a loser … and he’s lost. He’ll never get back what he had :: he’ll never be a danger to a mass market again … not least because I’m not going anywhere. Things aren’t the same now … things don’t have to stay the same.
James Arthur Ray lost before he even started this game. From The Sociopath Next Door …
“From a psychologist’s point of view, even the ones in prestigious positions, even the ones with famous names are failed lives. For most of us, happiness comes through the ability to love, to conduct our lives according to our higher values (most of the time), and to feel reasonably contented within ourselves. Sociopaths cannot love, by definition they do not have higher values, and they almost never feel comfortable in their own skins. They are loveless, amoral, and chronically bored, even the few who become rich and powerful.”
It might not feel like it today :: but we won this battle :: and we are going to win this war. Each of us doing our own part … one day at time.
You know who’s in jail right fucking now?
James Arthur Ray.
>> bleep bloop
-------------More fabulously hilarious writing ::
- Endangering James Arthur Ray FUCK YOU James Arthur Ray :: you motherfucking motherfucker!!...
- James Arthur Ray :: Always Be Closing Final days in the trying trial of semi-professional manipulator...
- Dateline :: James Arthur Ray Redux <recycle> A few years ago NBC was all about...
- Hello James Arthur Ray “James Arthur Ray is transforming the way the world...
- James Arthur Ray :: Manslaughterer James Arthur Ray :: aka Death Ray :: arrested...
:: read one now before you die of stupid.
Here in Phoenix the sentencing was shown live. What a pathetic, stomach churning farce when he and his mother spoke of how all he wanted to do was help people and now just think of all those poor unfortunates he wouldn’t be able to help!
Help what? Lighten their wallets? Mess up their lives? All beecause he has the inside track to some trumped up Universal Truth and The LAW of Attraction that only attracts the unwary to his cult of leeches? I can only hope that some 6’4″ (or bigger) 300 pound hunk of prison manliness takes a special shine to this dbag.
WINNER!! ::
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Also sick machine can too often *incentive* the psychopaths to ripoff, con, and kill.
Sentence so f***ing-obvious wrong & disgusting.
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I am a relatively new reader and I would just like to say that this might be the best site on the internet. Great, great work
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This blog post by a Native American, who sums up this trial result and clearly was not taken in by James Ray’s academy performance at the end, did a much better job interpreting it than the reporters who were in the court today, in my opinion — I only wish he or she was the Judge in the case and could have handed out the sentence.
http://dontpaytopray.blogspot.com/2011/11/james-arthur-ray-go-to-jail-go-directly.html
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Shit Storm Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:56 am
@Bonnie,
Great Website name…Don’t pay to Pray
How true is that
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Has a robot ever won the Pulitzer Prize? First rate series of articles about a crime committed by James Arthur Ray. He should have received a much longer prison sentence. Important, fascinating and riveting coverage of despicable behavior. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
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I still can’t believe the Judge blamed the victims in his speech! Real classy. I think someone forgot to remind him about the dirty NLP tricks and side effects of heat stroke and passing out… Not to mention the food, water, and sleep deprivation (a great way to break people down AND profit more at the same time!).
At least James Ray can’t hurt anyone for a couple years and we confirmed he has to serve at least 85% of his sentence, no exceptions.
Thank you so much for writing this article today, it definitely helps!
WINNER!! ::
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Solar Flare Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
@Bryan Neuman, I agree with you completely! I couldn’t believe the judge’s speech. I’m convinced the defense used their dirty NLP tricks on him. I mean, he thinks JAR is out there to help people! (?) But like you said, JAR is in prison now and it’s not just probation (like I was afraid it might be). Thoughts & prayers go out to your family.
WINNER!! ::
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Bryan Neuman Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Thank you all for your prayers and support! It means a lot to us!
WINNER!! ::
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Bonnie Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
That was so unprofessional of Judge Darrow — he should lose his licence for that comment, if not for the shamefully incompetent sentence itself. I still say he was paid off.
WINNER!! ::
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Solar Flare Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
@Bonnie, Agreed! There was definitely something fishy going on. Or maybe he was just too good of friends with Kelly.
WINNER!! ::
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Anna Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@Bonnie, Yes, he never should have been on this case – DArrow and Kelly were once partners – I do beleive he would have received a stiffer sentence with most other judges
WINNER!! ::
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Bonnie Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:36 pm
@Anna,
Yes, and he has since announced his retirement for early next year — guess he made enough money on this case that he no longer needs the huge salary of a judge anymore. I knew it all along — it was just too fishy from the start.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 11:14 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
Maybe it was NLP, but I am convinced that Truc Do somehow hypnotized the judge with her ass.
Shame on him, regardless of the reason.
Concurrent sentences don’t make sense to me, anyhow. If he’s serving time for killing Kirby, how can he be serving time for killing Liz and James at the exact same moment? And why didn’t he add anything for the intentional infliction of emotional distress?
I realize it’s an accepted practice, but it has never seemed logical to me. 2 + 2 + 2 should equal 6, not 2.
WINNER!! ::
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mirele Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 12:04 am
@Bryan Neuman, The judge blamed the victims? I’m so disappointed. Wasn’t the judge paying attention during the trial? Guess not.
The one thing that I came away with from this perversely shortened sentence is this: we who know what a sorry SOB James Arthur “Death” Ray is are going to have to keep on his ass. If he shows up somewhere to do a “World Wealth Scamming” session or some other seminar designed to part people from their money, people need to be outside letting the marks know that they’re dealing with a guy who killed three people. (Because a lot of people don’t let their fingers do the walking to find out who they’re dealing with.) Over and over and over again, always nice, but always persistent, haunting this guy’s footsteps, until he gives it up and becomes a ditchdigger. (My father suggested “telephone lineman.)
WINNER!! ::
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Pathfinder1001 Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:27 am
@Bryan Neuman, Darrow completely failed to weigh the effects of JARs ability to influence people’s ability to make decisions for themselves in the sweat lodge and the days leading up to it. You can bet that was not lost on JAR. I am hopefull, however, that all of this not over for him. There are still something like 13 civil lawsuits served on him, including the wrongful death of Coleen Conway. May justice continue to served.
WINNER!! ::
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Jeanne Barkemeijer de Wit Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
I felt physically ill as I watched and listened to Darrown (crimson faced and fidgety) trying to explain the reasons for his B/S sentence. There is no excuse for blaming the victim’s deaths upon the victims.
The only good thing about all yesterday ::: besides JAR going to jail ::: is the fact that it ain’t over for James Ray yet. As you mentioned, JAR has a pile of civil lawsuits coming his way ::: and no place left to hide.
God willing ::: by the time these lawsuits come to trial ::: the truth about James Arthur Ray, his lies, misdeads and abusive behavior will finally come to light.
I hope you and your family finally have some peace. My thoughts and prayers are with the familys and the victims of James Arthur Ray.
Sincerely,
@Jeanne0o0
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2 years
Dang only 23 short of what I thought he shoulda got minimum….
WINNER!! ::
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It wouldn’t have been long enough if he had been given nine years either. But, at least right now James Ray is trapped inside his worst nightmare…and will be for awhile.
The entire prosecution team did an awesome job.
WINNER!! ::
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SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@what?? ::
… then he can move back in with Mom … like the suckcess hero that he is
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Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@SD,
Like mother like son like brother like father. All in the family indeed. Liars and con artists every one of them. And sorry to say it, but no wonder the parents are both sick now. Just like James with his herpes and everything else that’s wrong with him. Careful Jon, you’re next — if you’re not suffering with something already.
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I’d say 2 years is still better than nothing. Also, JAR is 53 years old, he will be 55 if he serves a whole sentence (not likely?), he is broke and apparently ill.
When he gets out, he would not have any money or support from his fellow scammers to start over his lunacy. The “insdustry” would evolve and he would not have any connections or networks left.
Even if he manages, there is a whole wikipedia page about the trial and conviction and if this is not enough, it does not take much effort to set up a page detailing the tragedy which would rank higher than any of his promotions.
Bottom line is, time is not on JAR’s side and this is something to be glad about.
Now, I need to find my copy of the Harmonic Wealth and fucking burn it.
WINNER!! ::
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Like many, I was shocked and angered when Judge Darrow started nattering about “educated adults” and “responsibility” and “common sense,” the clear implication being that the people in distress in the sweat lodge should have taken more responsibility for saving themselves. (It sounded to me as if he also mumbled something about suffering being one purpose of a sweat lodge; I can only imagine how Native Americans felt when listening to that.)
I was also appalled when Darrow said in all seriousness that JAR believed he was helping people. Looking at the judge’s facial expressions and general manner, however, it appeared that he really had been having some emotional conflicts about the matter. But that doesn’t excuse either the blame-the-victim comments or the light sentence he handed down.
However, as @SD and others have said, at least that sentence is something. And perhaps @SD is right and JAR has been crippled. Like Voldemort when Harry and gang started destroying the Horcruxes, Ray may be seriously weakened. Perhaps he will never regain his full power to hurt people emotionally, physically, and financially. Of course other scumbags will rise in his place, so I guess it’s up to those of us who wish to fight the “sick machine” in our own way to keep reminding people of the nature of the beast.
For now, the fact that JAR has not only been convicted, but has been sentenced to prison, is significant. Maybe some of the stigma of his conviction and imprisonment will also leave a bit of a smudge on the other New-Wage gurus (particularly the stars of “The Secret”) who used to boast that JAR was their friend. Turds of a feather and all that.
Whatever happens in the future, it is my hope that the families of the victims will find a little peace from today’s verdict, and if not from the verdict, at least from knowing that there are many of us out here who are in their corner.
WINNER!! ::
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Sundog Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
@Cosmic Connie, Hopefully he gets smashed in civil proceedings.
WINNER!! ::
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Solar Flare Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
@Cosmic Connie, Yes! I was shocked too! I could not believe it when Darrow mumbled the idea that suffering was one purpose of a sweat lodge!! DUH!!!!!!!!!!
It’s my hope too that the victim’s families will find peace, and I am thankful that it was at least 2 years and not probation.
WINNER!! ::
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Hippo Reply:
November 18th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
Judge Darrow looked awfully uncomfortable. I don’t think I have ever seen a judge look so awkward during sentencing.
For example, think of Judge Perry in the Casey Anthony trial. I don’t think he’d be impressed by how Ray “tried to help” people.
If James Ray had a caring bone in his body, he would not have behaved like an asshole after the sweat lodge.
WINNER!! ::
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Anna Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:36 pm
@Hippo, Perhaps he looked uncomfortable cuz he was paid a hefty sum?? He has to be smarter than that?!?!
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Bonnie Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@Anna,
You got that right. Bought and paid for. And now he retires on the huge windfall.
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LA the most pathetic and useless city? Come on, they’ve got nothing on us here in Detroit.
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SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
@Cromulent ::
Detroit is not a city.
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Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@SD,
OK, you must be looking for a straight man so you can deliver the punchline. I’ll oblige:
If Detroit isn’t a city, what is it?
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
@Hippo ::
I’m almost never looking for a straight man … {circle snap!}.
[Reply]
Bryan Neuman Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
@SD, HAHAHAHA!
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I’ll tell y’all something that makes me happy- Salty will still be here in two years, with a bigger audience and a more sensitive BS detector. That audience and Salty will be keeping an eye on JAR.
I too wish he was going away for longer, but two years ain’t bad, and it’s better than probation only.
Thanks so much for your diligence in covering this, Droid, and for all the people who have chimed in on this in a non-victim blaming way. All of the family and friends of the folks who were hurt/negligently murdered at the hands of this creep- I feel bad even acknowledging you in the same breath as JAR. But your courage to speak/post here during the trail shows a grace and strength I don’t think I could possess under the same circumstances.
WINNER!! ::
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Disappointing to be sure, though I thank God he was not allowed to walk.
Thank you Mr. Droid for your amazing site and service. It was the only real place for a group of people (who would otherwise never mix) to come together to express their grieve and anger and frustration.
The community which you have created has made a difference, and I suspect effected the outcome.
Until we meet again, all the best…
WINNER!! ::
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Thanks so much SD for this thread, for what you’ve written, and all your work … really heartening. And I agree with everyone that at least he’s stuck in jail for full 85%, and is forever weakened/horcruxed, and be so easy to sort an internet page to appear first, before his rubbish BS. Only caught the end of the sentencing speech/didn’t hear the blaming of the victims … truly vile, and Judge Darrow’s corrupt for sure … I’d thought he was letting jar hang himself with all the delays, and planning to smack a huge sentence on him. I’m sure you’re right SD that rubbish like jar never knows love/humanity/values/contentment … nobody can be happy being such pollution on this planet, no matter what they tell themselves/pretend.
Lots of love to the families/ill.
WINNER!! ::
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James Ray “I will never conduct a sweat lodge or any physically damaging event again (or something like that)”
And WE WILL NEVER FORGET ……..
Like Salty says we win this war one battle at a time and everyone else conducting themselves in this way are now on notice. This is a good result.
WINNER!! ::
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When is Fake-Dough Kevin Trudeau going to prison for sending so many sick people into the false path of snake oil to cure their illness?
When is the Vicious Garden Gnome Mike Filsaime going to prison for bilking so many unsuspecting would be business owners via his phone rooms, for willfully teaching them a false path to business success, for exposing children to a known child molester?
When are the bought and paid for politicians in this country going to jail for selling out our hopes and dreams to the highest bidder?
This is a happy day. It’s a small victory. But we have a long fucking way to go.
WINNER!! ::
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[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
@It’s a Small Start, Kevin True-Dough has already been to prison on various felony charges, including credit card fraud (in the early 1990s). In prison he met another scammer and cooked up more scams, and when he got out he went on to bigger and better schemes. Promoting alt-med is the least of his misdeeds, IMO. For the most part he has managed to skirt the laws with the supplements, though he has been fined numerous times by the FTC among other agencies for unsubstantiated claims. He is fighting the latest fines.
To me his biggest scams are things like his Global Information Network, or G.I.N., which, because the main money-making ops come from selling memberships to others, is basically a pyramid scheme — despite the protest-too-much disclaimers on various sites run by some of his minions. He apparently manages to get around the U.S. authorities by basing G.I.N. offshore. He also retains expensive lawyers, and has a legal defense fund which he aggressively promotes — the result being that the same folks he’s screwing with his frauducts and flopportunities contribute to the great cause of keeping him out of jail. If they contribute $1,000 or more they get a chance to have dinner with him and their fellow suckers, and more opportunities to contribute yet more money to the cause.
No doubt about it, he’s got a great scam going, and he has many people convinced that he’s a fearless consumer advocate and First Amendment champion whom the government, the medical profession, and the pharmaceutical industry are trying to repress, oppress, and suppress. He has managed to convince many that he is not only a hero and a martyr, but that he has access to forbidden knowledge, much of which he supposedly learned when he was a member of a seekrit society called The Brotherhood. I still can’t quite wrap my mind around the fact that supposedly sane, educated people believe this crap. KT apparently believes that if you’re going to tell lies, make them big ones.
I imagine that the Garden Gnome and his buddies are seething with envy at True-dough’s success. KT truly seems impervious to any attempts to rein in his scamming.
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Darrow said the sentence is mitigated by the fact that Ray “helped people & it was his intention to help.” So with that logic, a DUI homicide is mitigated by the number of times the person drove sober and didn’t kill anyone. Darrow is not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Makes it clear how close Death Ray was to walking free.
The fact that he didn’t is testimony to the dedication shown by Sheila Polk and her team. Ray was lucky to get a soft-headed wimp like Darrow for a judge, but I expect he’ll be having nightmares about Polk and Diskin for the rest of his stupid life.
I really can’t express my sadness for what the victims and their families have suffered.
WINNER!! ::
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Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 10:25 am
@Yakaru,
I expect there’s a little more to Judge Darrow’s decision than we realize. Unfortunately, this is a case that doesn’t have much of a precedent.
I think that Judge Darrow researched whatever cases could be considered “similar” and gave a sentence that he thought fit.
His real goal, after all, is to avoid being overturned on appeal.
The fact that he almost seemed to be squirming a little during the sentencing could be an indication that he wasn’t happy with his own decision.
WINNER!! ::
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[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 10:57 am
@Hippo,
I’m hoping they do appeal and that the appeal gets JAR the sentence he deserves — which is the title of Salty’s blog post above — “Life Sentence”!
And I am not so sure about your assessment of Darrow’s reasoning — he was too “pro” James Arthur Ray in his closing statements. Never mind the very unprofessional alluding to the victims’ own fault. I hope Sheila Polk and Detective Diskin and others keep a close watch on him AND his expendatures from now on in.
And anyone who believed that JAR was genuine and truly remorseful in that academy performance at the end have just never seen an academy award winning performance before.
WINNER!! ::
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Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
@Bonnie,
I think only the defense can appeal–for a shorter sentence. I don’t think the prosecution has any recourse at all.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@Hippo,
Ok, I thought that the appeal meant that he would have a whole new trial and sentence. I have little to no knowledge of the law.
[Reply]
Bryan Neuman Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@Bonnie, Yeah, I don’t believe James Ray for one second. He had 2 years to explain himself and apologize to my family, but didn’t do it until judgement day in front of the judge and media.
James Ray put my family through absolute hell the last two years with his cold, heartless seminars, tweets, videos, and radio shows. He tried to profit off our pain and suffering while we were still searching for answers and trying to grieve.
WINNER!! ::
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stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
I hope that you and your family can begin to put your lives back together now that JAR is jailed–and I agree, for not nearly enough time.
WINNER!! ::
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Yakaru Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
Ray didn’t say anything like “if only I’d known people were in distress…” during the trial either – where he would have been cross examined on it.
…All it took to get him to apologize was nine months of relentless hammering by the prosecution, three guilty verdicts and the threat of nine years in prison staring him in the face.
WINNER!! ::
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Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
@Yakaru,
“All it took to get him to apologize was nine months of relentless hammering by the prosecution, three guilty verdicts and the threat of nine years in prison staring him in the face”
And that’s exactly what the tears were for too — it had absolutely nothing to do with feeling any sense of remorse whatsoever, or any empathy or compassion for any of the victim’s families.
WINNER!! ::
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Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@Yakaru,
I believe you are 100% right.
You know why? The only time he teared up was when his mother was talking about HIM and when he was talking about HIMSELF.
What did he do when the victims’ families described their suffering? Nothing. He just stared straight ahead.
Even if he was in shock immediately following the tragedy (which I doubt), he could have made amends in the days and weeks following. Instead, he did nothing, and kept insisting that he wasn’t responsible.
WINNER!! ::
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Hippo Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 1:41 am
@Yakaru,
I’m going to throw in two cents about another person who was convicted, Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer, who murdered at least 48 women in the Seattle area.
During his sentencing hearing, a number of victims read impact statements. You can imagine how heart-wrenching they were. The only time Ridgeway showed any emotion was when one man, the father of a young lady victim, told Ridgeway, “I forgive you.” That was the only time the perpetrator teared up. He showed no emotion as the other family members described their losses.
It’s all about THEM.
WINNER!! ::
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Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
I hope that you and the other families feel at least a little bit of satisfaction, and that you can find some comfort in the fact that the publicity may have saved someone’s life.
The only way to make this asshole stop his crazy train was by locking him up. He would have kept on going, heedless of the danger, and blaming the victims.
WINNER!! ::
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Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
@Hippo,
He’s still blaming the victims — and no doubt blaming them for being locked up now as well.
WINNER!! ::
+10
Anna Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@Bryan Neuman, I will never believe his sorry-ass lies – he just never believed he would get any time until the end – when it started looking like reality he laid on the ‘act’ He still shows NO remorse for Colleen – in his sick mind it’s still “Colleen who”
WINNER!! ::
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Bonnie Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:11 pm
@Anna,
Oh Anna, you got that so right! And that’s exactly what Colleen is to brother Jon and to their mother as well — “Colleen Who” — because if they cared, they would talk. Brother/son or not. They know. They know the truth. The whole family is sick.
Colleen's sister Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:21 pm
@Anna, & @ Bonnie…they will find out “Colleen Who” very soon.
WINNER!! ::
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lin Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
@Yakaru, Even the worst sociopaths and killers had some good in them but that doesn’t give them the right to kill people even if it was unintentional. I didn’t hear them say that about Conrad Murray. They said he is a danger and he has to be taken away as soon as the jury convicted him. And as I said once before when Ann Rule wrote “This Stranger Beside Me” about Ted Bundy, she originally met him at a crisis hot line where he helped people who were suicidal. She found it incredible that this same person who she had seen help and care for people ended up being such a sociopath. So even if JAR did help people, he harmed more than he helped. Even one life is not paid for by others who he helped becauses of his negligence and irresponsibility. I just hope I never end up in a courtroom in Arizona for even a traffic ticket. Darrow does not speak well for their legal system. And Darrow saying he is going by the law, not emotion makes him look like he suffers from Aspbergers.
WINNER!! ::
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Hippo Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 10:57 am
@lin,
Just to throw in another two cents about Ted Bundy, he once chased down a purse-snatcher and held him until the police arrived.
When he was first arrested in Utah, NOBODY who knew him in Washington State believed he had committed any crime.
WINNER!! ::
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Bonnie Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
@Hippo,
Well, now isn’t that exactly what James did with Sean Stephenson and others, “using” them to look good by having them around him by pretending to be helping them just to cover up how evil and uncaring and sadistic he “really” is?
And speaking of Sean Stephenson, besides Camille Kimball tweeting from the courtroom about how arrogant and egotistical he was and saying she felt like she should have been paying for a ticket to his “performance”, you should have seen how he showed his true colors on Connie Joy’s site, then promptly deleted his incriminating posts after he was confronted by several posters for being the obnoxious bully he was — like student like teacher. Several posters there said they had lost what respect they had for him — I concur. Just because you have disabilities doesn’t mean you have a right to be cruel and selfish and a con artist. But he learned from the best.
WINNER!! ::
+12
[Reply]
Maria Mandros Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@Bonnie,
Agreed 100%.
Can you believe he (twerp Sean Stephenson) said he wishes the best for the JUDGE and attorneys and good ole’ homicidal James Arthur Ray yet doesn’t wish the best for the families of the murdered victims or the dead victims themselves?
I’m glad a few people told him off. Despite overcoming his physical limitations he certainly has not overcome his ability to be an arrogant snotty little asshole. Initially I was almost inspired when I saw a few news programs about him but as I saw more I realized wow, he’s at least as arrogant as his Messiah Guru/bestie JAR.
Can you provide me with a link for Camille Kimball’s blog or site? Sounds awesome.
Also I take it when you say Connie Joy’s site you mean the Tragedy in Sedona page on Facebook where SS posted but then quickly deleted his posts as you pointed out. I guess the fire got too hot for him.
I really wish before he erased his post I’d ask him does he think James would have saved him had HE been on that retreat? Can you imagine? He’d have been the first to go and I think had he passed out JAR would have let his bestie friend lie there baking.
James Arthur Ray you really need to pay (I hope he gets out of the infirmary really soon) I am just amazed he’s able to stay in there. I say get him out of his cozy bed and in with the real boys.
A long time fan of Salty (especially for his stories exposing JAR and Maria Mandros (I mean Andros)
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
John Chmela Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 3:54 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-11
SD Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 6:49 pm
@John Chmela ::
He didn’t risk his reputation for James Arthur Ray :: he guaranteed its complete destruction … promise.
Dale Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 8:07 pm
@John Chmela,
Translation:
“I too wish nothing but unaccountability and opportunity for Mr. Ray to harm people again.”
There was not even one single word in your comment offering “love and peace” to Ray’s victims.
It’s people like you and Sean Stephenson that enable psychopaths like James Ray in his desire to “LOVE to get a PIECE” of even more victims.
WINNER!! ::
+7
stoic Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 8:26 pm
@John Chmela
‘How many of us would come forward and risk our own reputation to stand shoulder to shoulder with a friend ……’
His customers didn’t just risk death sitting shoulder to shoulder with him in a sweat tent, three of them did die–what worth is a reputation for peddling snake-oil against that?
Yakaru Reply:
December 3rd, 2011 at 9:55 am
@John Chmela
Your claim that James Ray was being “crucified” is an extremely stupid choice of words. James was found guilty of torturing three people to death. The only question was his degree of culpability, and Ray himself claimed it was due to his own utter incompetence and unsuitability for the role adopted. The judge agreed and gave him a very mild sentence for such hideous and pointless crime.
Given that at least one family who had a loved one killed by James Ray is Christian, I think you need to make an immediate apology for your tasteless and stupid remark.
LaVaughn Reply:
December 3rd, 2011 at 10:11 am
@John Chmela, I thank you for not calling him “Dr.” Sean Stephenson. He really stop doing that. It’s illegal in several states.
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:56 am
@Bonnie,
Could you elaborate a little? I did not see the posts you speak of and wonder if you could summarize.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:29 am
@Hippo,
I can’t recall exactly what he said and he deleted his posts very soon after, after several posters confronted him on what a bully he was being and that they had lost respect for him — but basically, that’s what he was doing — bullying by name calling and put downs and belittling of people who were voicing their disappointment in him testifying in JAR’s defence. So the real Sean Stephenson showed himself not only in court, but on Connie Joy’s blog, that many were privileged to witness before he deleted his posts.
And yes, Maria Mandros, it was on Connie Joy’s Tragedy in Sedona page on Facebook. Also, if you just google Camille Kimball, her site will come up — although I think it is just CamilleKimball.com. And where she said that she felt like she should have had to buy a ticket to Sean’s “performance” in court, she was tweeting from her twitter account in the courtroom, which I believe she links from her website.
Bottom line, from what I and a whole lot of others witnessed of Sean Stephenson, both in the courtroom and on Connie Joy’s Tragedy in Sedona site, he is just a manipulating, cruel, uncaring, obnoxious bully and con artist, exactly like his “friend” James Arthur Ray. How else could they have stayed supposedly such close friends for 13 years? And as someone stated (I forget who, but I believe it was on Connie Joy’s site again, although I could be wrong), seeing Sean Stephenson in person on stage is not really a motivational seminar, as it is advertised to be, but a personal “bragfest” — I have seen parts of his seminars in videos, or maybe even a whole one, and when I read that, I had to agree — although at the time, and before all this happened to enlighten us about him, you really did feel sorry for him and admire him and think he was teaching you something. But there’s nothing left to admire — it’s a man who took his disabilities and used them to fleece the public and fill his pockets while looking down on them and having no respect for them, as he proved on that Facebook page.
And if Sean thinks for even one minute that JAR really cared about him and respected him, he’d better think again — with all the evidence in about James, he loathed anyone who didn’t look, to him, like “the perfect” speciman of a human being — so he most likely was kind and caring to Sean’s face while loathing him in private. All Sean was to JAR was free press — and yes, I know Sean said that James didn’t say on his website that he helped him — but just seeing the two together and knowing that Sean would be going everywhere and telling the story of how wonderful James was, and how he helped him and what a good friend he was — was enough advertising for James, and more — he’s not stupid. Even if he’s stupid. Users are users and that’s all they are. I think he even just uses his mother and father and brother, because I don’t think he’s capable of genuine caring for anyone other than himself.
WINNER!! ::
+10
Sharon Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
@Hippo, I was one of the people who confronted Sean Stephenson. Basically I told him that his support of JAR means that he condones what JAR did, and I then asked him why clients should choose him for “counselling”, knowing that he condones the actions of a murderer. I told him that he had lost respect in the eyes of many, and I also questioned his credentials as a psychotherapist (apparently he does not appear to be licensed anywhere). He responded with a rant about “people saying bad things about him”, which he then deleted. He sounded shocked that people would confront him (I was only one of several who took him to task). I think he hides behind his disabiity. He believes that because he is disabled, everyone will go easy on him…what a great way to manipulate audiences! That shtick doesn’t work with me…I told him “your body may be disabled, but there’s nothing wrong with your brain, so why did you show up at the courtroom condoning the heinous actions of your so-called friend?” (I’m paraphrasing here…you can find my exact wording on Connie Joy’s page.
WINNER!! ::
+9
SD Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
@Sharon ::
If anyone saved his responses I want them.
I also don’t give a flaming fuck about his disabilities … and question his credentialing.
Sean Stephenson has made his worst mistake ever.
Maria Mandros Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
@Hippo,
@Sharon is right. She was one of the people to comment on the thread started (perhaps ironically) by Dr. Mercola’s “better half” Erin Elizabeth.
Here is the link as I just got notified it was updated a few minutes ago (which did allow me to provide a link)
Erin started the thread and then Stephenson wrote some rude condescending remarks. I guess he blocked her so a friend (it appears) posted for her so SS could read about not even bothering to pray for the victims (but he DID remember to pray for the lawyers judges, JAR’s family and of course the villain/killer/cooker himself James Arthur Ray.
I guess Stephenson decided he was too cruel in his former posts and deleted them all. Sad about his inflated ego. Maybe that’s how he copes with his condition but it’s a shame he sticks up for killers and feeds people bad information about attracting tons of HOT women at his bragfests at Man transformation (which is a joke and total waste of money- not unlike the fake Dr S or JAR himself..
https://www.facebook.com/TragedyInSedona/posts/302295259795293?notif_t=share_comment
LINK To original thread. including Sharon’s great remarks as well.
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:12 am
@lin,
In all fairness, we have not seen Conrad Murray sentenced yet.
The judge might say the same type of thing at Dr. Murray’s sentencing, about how he was trying to help, he’s not violent, blah, blah, blah.
And Dr. Murray could get probation. After all, the maximum sentence he faces is four years, quite a bit shorter than what Ray was looking at.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
Okay, Dr. Murray got the full four years. I wasn’t sure what the judge would do.
I will say, though, that Dr. Murray is probably more dangerous than James Ray, since he is, well, a DOCTOR, and has way more opportunities to kill people than a self-help guru.
Also, Dr. Murray should understand the ramifications of what he’s doing better than Ray. Ray might conceivably think that you can use your willpower to overcome heat stroke; Murray can’t use that excuse.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
@Hippo,
Dr Murray also took an oath–to do no harm–and broke it for a bigger paypal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
I should make some comparison to DeathRay here– but won’t.
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
@stoic, @Hippo: Well, let’s face it, both Dr. Murray and Death Ray got off way too easy. Of course Dr. Murray has received a lot more publicity because his patient was such a Big Star. The media are and will continue to be all over that kind of story. Once again, it’s up to us to continue to keep these “lesser” stories alive, because even if the media talking heads don’t have a clue, *we* know that James Shore, Kirby Brown, Liz Neuman, and Colleen Conaway are no less important than Michael Jackson.
I was in the courtroom last week when my uber-courageous spouse, Kristina Bivins, gave her testimony. It was an honor to meet all of the amazing people in the prosecution team. My honor to shake Detective Diskin’s hand and Sheila Polk’s as well. Diskin’s mom Wendy flamed the bitches. All of them couldn’t have been nicer or more clued. I can’t fully express how impressed I was by the integrity, kindness and understanding of the support people Sheila Polk has put in place for witnesses. “Ms. Polk and her people :: and Det. Diskin and his people :: managed to remind us that :: so many times :: good people in the government really are doing a surprisingly good job at doing a good job.” Amen, Salty.
They got it. Darrow just didn’t get it. Despite the crushing amount of testimony about the LGAT and NLP manipulation, the hard sell, the guru-enslavement, the just-plain-fucking bullying, Darrow ended up in white bread land with no understanding of how anyone could be acting in any way that just wasn’t what his mother would do. This was way over his head and he even hesitated to give what he gave.
I quote again: “Money talks :: and bullshit … also talks. So if you’ve got both then that’s a lot of talking.””
Yessir.
Kristina reminded me tonight that it’s a six year sentence. 2 years of butt-love. Then some 4 years of probation. Watch your NLP P’s and Q’s. ‘Cause people are watching now and aren’t afraid to scream your fraud at you and keep at it. That’s what’s changed ya’ll. I’ve been hearing people see for the first time that they can stand up and keep standing up no matter how many times the defense objects. Fuck them and keep the flamethrower steady. People are ready to take on this bitch again AND his fellow bitches.
If I haven’t said it enough (probably not) thank you Salty. I know your good works (that’s on the down low, you’re still a hardass). You help everybody and only get the bad guys. Sincerely, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
WINNER!! ::
+22
[Reply]
Cat Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 9:06 am
@Jeffrey Hammond,
Holding the flamethrower, exerting sheer force of the light … one of many many people who totally support the families … you’re right that Polk and Diskin were amazing. Darrow is corrupt, and has to live with the atrocity he’s done … my sincere belief is that the money and bullshit these pieces of utter cr*p revel in may well seem and feel like the quickfix and all that matters, but there is a higher/deeper justice, and their hollow vileness and stupidity will end up with them falling into a deep hole of karma … history shows, some of the deepest Justices can take some time, but DO happen always ultimately … you’re right that jar will be getting the worst experiences possible in jail, which without doubt he deserves, plus then probation, losing lots of money, being universally hated by anybody with a brain connected to their heart/truth/goodness … his future isn’t bright, he’s ‘horcruxed’, and I doubt anybody can stop any determined criminals in there from doing as they want to … Darrow, bullshit, money, vile defence … there’ll be honest good people like Polk and Diskin, and determined criminals to act out some karmic flow.
SO much love to Kristina and yourself, to all the families.
Holding the flamethrower …
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
@Jeffrey Hammond ::
Pretty much sums it up I think.
People want to say he’s corrupt or whatever {which is fine} … but that’s highly doubtful. Being a Judge is a super sweet job … great pay and benefits … great place to be a slacker … you get to wear robes and shit and have people treat you like a king. Not easy to get someone to risk that.
Ken Lay … maybe … James Ray … no way.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@SD,
I still think that the Judge’s primary motivation was to avoid being overturned on appeal. Judges HATE it when that happens. It’s a huge professional embarrassment to be avoided at all costs.
I’m thinking that the Judge researched this six ways from Sunday and did not feel he could justify giving a longer sentence to a non-violent person with no previous offenses. I did get the sense that he would have liked to impose a harsher penalty; I think that’s what the squirming was about.
On the other hand, Judge Darrow could just be a pussy-bitch.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
@Hippo ::
The BS he was spewing yesterday is the kind stuff I beat down idiotic trolls for saying around here. If you’re gonna say something ignorant … don’t say anything at all. Just give your gutless sentence and walk out in silent shame.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
@SD,
Point taken. But I don’t think the judge would do that, being so mindful of two things, precedents and appeals.
I think he felt he HAD to justify himself; he’s not a “silent shame” kind of guy. By giving that speech, he’s attempting to rid himself of that shame.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@Hippo,
Non-violent? Biting and sadisticly cruel words can be just as violent as fists and knives and other weapons — and in most instances, even more so. Long after the scars and wounds have healed from physical violence, emotional scars and wounds remain — sometimes forever. The “non-violent” words of James Arthur Ray was what pushed Colleen to her death — I’m sure of it. Unless it was brother Jon’s words.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
@Bonnie,
Oh, I agree, but the LAW would consider Ray to be non-violent.
I definitely think his hatefulness is a form of violence, but I don’t believe that would be taken into account in a legal sense.
[Reply]
Colleen's brother-in-law Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
@Bonnie, I don’t believe I could have said it better myself…thank you.
[Reply]
People died and JAR only got 2 lousy fucking years…
I am not satisfied (not saying anyone else is either)
Fuck Judge Darrow and fuck JAR
let this be a lesson to all of us…this is a fight
A fight for common decency…a worthy cause
Make no mistake this is a fight
I respect the argument we won this battle but I can’t help thinking the loved ones of this tragedy feel that way
We fight for the victims
We fight so there will be no more victims
We need more people to this fight
We need to shine a brighter light on these criminals
We need to shine a light on every single person who benefits from these crimes…including family
We need to exert every imaginable amount of FORCE we can to stop these people
Fuck You Judge Darrow – you will not hear the end of this
The JAR verdict will be a millstone around your neck for the rest of your life
and an especially loud and vigorous Fuck You to JAR…this isn’t over for you asshole
…and for the rest of the scammers out there be warned…this is just the beginning
Recruit every person you know who has a heart and get involved in this cause…get them to this site
These people ruin lives everyday with their greed, they need to be stopped
To the families who have lost loved ones in this tragedy, I know it may seem inappropriate to say this in a rant where I curse but in the outside chance you’re reading this blog:
My heartfelt thoughts and prayers are with you, peace be with you.
WINNER!! ::
+13
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@Shit Storm, Getting people to this site idea is also supported by research about why boycotts succeed or fail at Kelloggs School Of Management:
My only question is about who is most vulernable to this reputation-damage. It seems it would be the scammer-complicit media, other supporting corps/businesses, & publicly elected officials like mr. Shurtleff.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
@Jack ::
Yep. They have WAY more to lose … theoretically it should be easier to damage them than the scammers.
So far none of the lawyers attached to this situation has made an effort to press the real money bags in this disaster … but I still hold out hope that they will.
[Reply]
I missed a lot of this week’s proceedings. Did Darrow place any conditions on JAR for after his release?
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:06 pm
@Yakaru,
I would love to know the answer to that, and I would also like to know about the short-sale/foreclosure, whichever it was, of JAR’s house.
[Reply]
Bryan Neuman Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
@Yakaru,
None that I heard. James Ray is just trying to help people! *barf everywhere*
[Reply]
Here’s something to remember: A lot of judges are stupid, incompetent assholes, no different than the stupid, incompetent assholes you’ll find holding other job titles.
The only difference, really, is that stupid, incompetent asshole judges are granted far more power than the average stupid, incompetent asshole. This makes them extremely arrogant.
If you want to have fun with a stupid, incompetent, arrogant asshole judge, bring up jury nullification with him/her the next time you’re called to jury duty.
Or don’t bring it up and just do what you know to be right in your heart.
Because the average low level drug offender who gets caught with a few bags of weed is gonna get about as much time as James Arthur Ray got.
Ain’t American “justice” grand?
WINNER!! ::
+14
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@Mad Max ::
Exactly :: we all have power we can exercise … and we should.
[Reply]
White Rabbit Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
@Mad Max,
This whole process has been an eye-opener as to how our “System” really works.
Years ago I knew a guy who got 7 years in Attica State Prison for possession of two joints…no priors. He never killed anyone.
Yes, this boggles the mind.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
2+2+2 does not equal 2. Don’t insult our intelligence, Judge Darrow.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
White Rabbit Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
@Solar Flare,
I would have preferred if he had used Cain’s example of 9+9+9 equals 9.
[Reply]
CNN Video re: Coleen coverup… Scroll to the bottom of the page:
http://my-gratitude-project.blogspot.com/
Thanks, Jeannika.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 11:44 am
@Solar Flare,
I looked everywhere on that page for the video — bottom, top, left, right — and couldn’t find it. :(
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
@Bonnie, @Solar Flare,
Ok, I did a search and did find what is probably the same video, but I found it on Britt Santowski’s blog — and I had seen that video long time ago, if it’s the same one that you were referencing on Jeannika’s site — I was hoping (praying!) for something recent, and more charges/another case against JAR coming up — oh well, one can only hope.
http://www.theflawofattraction.com/cnn-video-on-james-arthur-ray-event-deaths
[Reply]
Solar Flare Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
@Bonnie, Yes, that looks like the one… It is older but I just found it. Coleen’s family does have a lawsuit happening, so hopefully we’ll hear something soon.
[Reply]
I am very disapponted in Judge Darrow…Did he not hear all the witnesses testifying during the trial?…How many times did we hear one witness after another testify that Ray was aware of the distress that people had while inside the faux lodge…from severe burns, to being unresponsive, to being unconscious, to no longer breathing…yet Ray states in his own words while begging for probation:
“I’m so sorry. And I know that nothing I could say or do is enough,” he said, his voice cracking and thick with emotion. “There’s not one single day that passes that I don’t relive the moments of that night in my life, asking what I missed, what I could have done differently. I didn’t know. I didn’t know that anyone was dying or in distress. I wish to God I would have. I would have stopped immediately.”
Ray still does not get the magnitude of the disaster that was of his own making…Ray is lying to himself, and to everyone else…It would seem that Judge Darrow believed the lie. Shame on you, Judge Darrow…Lady Justice is blind because you poked her in the eyes.
WINNER!! ::
+12
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
@omikse,
Yep, still lying through his teeth.
I don’t think that he is skilled enough to fool all his fellow con inmates though.
[Reply]
omikse Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@stoic,…Oh, to be a fly on the walls, you know, in case Ray doesn’t get the solitude his solicitors have requested…he really doesn’t want ‘general population’…I don’t know why, since he told Judge Darrow that all he wants to do is help people, why not allow him to help his fellow convicted felons…Ray could practice his motivational speaking, and teach the Laws of Attraction…he would most certainly have a ‘captive audience’…although, it could also be considered cruel and unusual punishment toward the other inmates.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@omikse ::
You think you’re joking?
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=100206
What happened to Colleen Jon? If you fuckstains want to help … answering that question would be a good start.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
@SD,
Jon should be on trial for perjury now because of that — as should his mother.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@SD,
“I take full responsibility for the pain and the anger and the confusion it caused and I’m sorry.”
Confusion???
This just gets more and more insane. What is he implying? That there is confusion about his guilt or responsibility? And what kind of freak says I killed all these people, sorry for the confusion it caused.
WINNER!! ::
+11
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:57 pm
@ Yakaru,
He thinks they are confused because they don’t see it the same way as he does–ie. that James Ray is eternally without guilt.
James has stated on numerous occasions that he doesn’t ‘do blame’, (one of the NewThought foundational tenets) at least not for himself.
He does a good trick of passing the buck though, so does ‘do blame’ when it suits him and his money-grubbing purposes.
WINNER!! ::
+11
stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
That anonymous is me, BTW, my selective attention was elsewhere and forgot to fill in the name form.
Hippo Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 2:59 am
@,
This is a version of something I hear convicted criminals say at their sentencing.
Most don’t say anything, but those that do, who attempt to make an apology, will say something like, “I’m sorry about what happened.”
They cannot bring themselves to say “I’m sorry about WHAT I DID.” They act as if a tornado came through and swept everyone into their crime, and the perpetrator had no control over the outcome.
James Ray, being more articulate than most, came up with an eloquent way of saying basically the same thing.
WINNER!! ::
+7
stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
@SD,
‘….help people in prison who need it’??
He is deluding himself again. They’re an entirely different audience in there who are unlikely to sit obediently quiet and drink in his harmonic wisdom.
Perhaps James will have a swift course of wisdom lessons himself in what most of his new audience have advanced degrees in, the type of violence that the law does recognise quite readiliy.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 3:00 am
@stoic,
Here’s another problem. Perhaps James Ray will pick up some new scamming tricks FROM the other prisoners, rather than teaching them anything.
Maybe prison will make him worse?
stoic Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 4:47 am
@hippo,
He will undoubtedly pick things up from his new community, thats unavoidable, but I don’t think that it will be scamming tricks-he knows that one already.
He lacks what they used to call ‘intestinal fortitude’ for the give and take of life, so I don’t think that he has the stomach for doing well in his new environment.
There is a good book called ‘Why They Kill’ by Richard Rhodes, it follows the work of academic criminologist, Lonnie Athens, who grew up in violence and then studied its etiology outside of the confines and restraints of academia.
Lonnie knows what he is talking about, and can the already lethal Deathray be any worse? Time is against him.
Colleen's sister Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:43 pm
@SD, James Ray will NEVER “help” anyone in prison who needs it…because there would be NO EXCHANGE OF MONEY… which means: James Ray won’t care or bother!
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 7:15 pm
@Colleen’s sister ::
Yep … which JAR knows full well … that’s just some horseshit to get lapped up by reporters.
Sundog Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 8:36 pm
@Colleen’s sister, I’m not sure they need the kind of “help” he has to offer anyways. Curious to see whether the old adage about drug dealers getting more violent and creative in prison applies here.
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@omikse,
I can’t help feeling that, because of Judge Darrow’s responses and actions and non actions throughout the trial, plus the pathetic sentence, that by some mysterious means JAR is going to receive special and preferential treatment behind bars. Just my gut feeling.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
@Bonnie,
He ain’t.
Special and preferential treatment would immediately mark him out as a target to the others.
James is going to have to fend for himself, for perhaps the first time in his life.
I don’t give much for his chances, at his age and on his current record.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
@stoic,
By special and preferential treatment I meant keeping him safe and away from and unknown to the other prisoners for the most part.
Yakaru Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
@stoic,
At the moment he’s in the infirmary.
http://apps.co.yavapai.az.us/inmatesearch/InmateSearchYC.asp
(Someone should hack his website and replace his tour dates with that link.)
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
@Yakaru ::
That’s fun.
He’s prolly getting extra Propecia for his ugliness.
stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
@Bonnie,
You mean the segregation where they put paedophiles and rapists for their own safety? (Known as Rule 45 or the nonce wing in UK prisons)
Its still not safe and even less safe for a non-nonce to broadcast his fear by demanding to live there.
A few days in the infirmary and then its sink or swim time for James. We’ll see how much help all his ‘Spiritual Warrior’ crap is to him then–about as much help as it was to his victims.
Hippo Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 10:43 am
SD:
It’s probably too much to hope for that he’s getting a personality transplant?
White Rabbit Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 9:00 pm
@omikse,
“I’m so sorry. And I know that nothing I could say or do is enough,” he said, his voice cracking and thick with emotion. “There’s not one single day that passes that I don’t relive the moments of that night in my life, asking what I missed, what I could have done differently. I didn’t know. I didn’t know that anyone was dying or in distress. I wish to God I would have. I would have stopped immediately.”
I am wondering if his final performance will be posted anywhere. A lot has been said on this site as to the nature of psychopaths and that final statement in front of the court was classic. It should be used as a teaching tool.
James wanted to be an actor. His students were privy to his frequent attempts. The first time you heard one of his emotional stories you might get wrapped up in it and teary. However, as you got further into his events and heard that one again or others where he elaborated no end, you noticed that at the end, the emotion and the tears ended abruptly like turning off a light switch. It was absolutely creepy.
If you have never seen him do the choked up teary act before you can get sucked in. That was a pull-out-all-the-stops one-time performance for the judge. No one who had been around him for any length of time would get sucked into that load of bullshit. He just backed the truck up and dumped it all in front of Darrow. He has no shame if that’s what it takes.
As for not getting the magnitude of the disaster of his own making…frankly, he doesn’t have the capacity to really care. You are trying to filter him through your own sensibilities. The only thing he regrets is the loss of houses, cars, money, etc, etc, etc. I nearly gagged when he mentioned the loss of his friend, Liz. You don’t do what he did to her if you are a true friend.
No, with James, everything is for show and don’t you forget it. When he is standing in front of you…it’s showtime.
WINNER!! ::
+18
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
@White Rabbit,
You would think that a judge, of all people, would be well informed about the inner workings of conmen and psychopaths.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 12:31 am
@White Rabbit,
Ray can’t see the forest for the trees. He’s asking what he missed?
His conscience–it has been absent from his life for quite some time.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@White Rabbit,
That “tearful scene” is captured on the Cestial Reflections blog..
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@Wondering Why, Celestial Reflections blog
[Reply]
Dancing Bubba Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
@Wondering Why, Watching that again would probably make me puke.
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 6:26 pm
@Dancing Bubba, I hear ya, once was enough for me..
[Reply]
Meanwhile, ms. Winfrey excitedly pushes on pumping and tweeting for fake-gurus:
From ms. Winfrey’s Twitter November 4, 2011
http://pic.twitter.com/P1DpscBK
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
@Jack, Nov 10th, 2011 Twitter post from ms. Winfrey:
http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/Oprah/status/134820916596191232
Seems she doesn’t want to remember about what she “put out” to her faithful trusting, public.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@Jack,
Thats the entire NewThought/Secret schtick though, selective memory.
I guess Ms O is a True Believer.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@stoic, Selective memory…and selective awareness.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
@Jack,
I’d go for ‘selective attention’, but what’s in a word?
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
@Jack,
I guess she still hasn’t read or heard that it’s just a “trick”, and there’s nothing really to it.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@Bonnie, @Jack,
I was speaking of the firewalk — don’t know why it didn’t post under your first comment.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
@Bonnie, Well, she does seem to go about love-endorsing people who trick people.
[Reply]
Solar Flare Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
@Bonnie, When I did the firewalk back in the 80′s, it definitely wasn’t a trick. I walked safely on hot coals.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
@Solar Flare, Science of Firewalking.
Problem for me is about that teaching people to overcome their “limiting beliefs” instead of just teaching them the science of how it works can make them eventually “Conceive, Believe”…and at some point try to “Achieve” things that are dangerous in almost any way I can think about (life, finances, friendship…).
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@Jack,
like staying in a sweat lodge too long because while “you may feel like you are going to die, but you won’t”?
[Reply]
Solar Flare Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 12:34 am
@Jack, I agree. It’s too bad these teachers have given NLP, firewalking and sweat lodges a bad name… I also want to say that the firewalking teacher, who studied with Tolly Berkan, spent a lot of time on following your intuition. He never forced anyone to do anything, and if they chose to not walk, then he congratulated them on following their intuition. Great teachers help us to be strong within ourselves, they don’t tell us what to do or try to degrade us, as JAR did.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 5:11 am
@Jack,
Yeah, but some of us (my hand up) are blockheads who only ever learn the hard way. I’m glad that there are some smart teachers still willing to take us blockheads on.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@Solar Flare ::
You can pet a wolf too :: but if I’ve trained it first then you really haven’t accomplished anything … and it would be a super bad idea to take it as a sign that you should leave your spouse or get into Amway.
If someone tells you to do something for no good reason … then don’t. That’s a much better lesson. If you get an opportunity to do a trust fall … then don’t. Instead practice making an uncomfortable stand in a group environment. “No I won’t do that … don’t care that all y’all are doing it.” Resisting the group isn’t a tamed wolf … it’s an actual accomplishment.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
@Solar Flare,
I’ve read that it’s nearly impossible to burn yourself walking across the coals that they use — unless you stop walking. Just what I’ve read and heard. Same with the walking across glass — they even teach you to shift the glass around under your foot before stepping down to make sure that there are no sharp shards pointing up where you’re going to step down. Hardly amazing. It is if you don’t know how it’s done, which is why everyone thinks they’ve done something so mind blowing.
[Reply]
_cartman_ Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@Bonnie,
exactly…
Coal has low thermal conductivity, which is what really protects one’s feet [[or tiny angels...it's debatable]]….now if people were to walk across a hot skillet I would be impressed [[the date of _cartman_'s hot skillet walk is still TBD]]…
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb/dod/firewalking.html
@SD,
exactly…
I pet a wolf once…it was an animatronic wolf…it was scary…but it cured my fear of animatronic wolves…
I never understood walking across hot coals, it will only make one less fearful of walking across coals [[not much of an accomplishment unless your job has you walking across hot coals in bare feet]]…If you are afraid of bees, and you walk across hot coals, you’ll still be afraid of bees…same goes for one’s dislike of lepercons [[it's the new title I am giving the featured DBags]].
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
@_cartman_, It’s foundational for real forms of help like the exposure therapy:
&
The newer idea of Virtual Reality Exposure Therapy:
Article/photos down the page at HITLab Projects page shows working on fear of spiders.
So no reason a person can’t work on their fears in safe place, but work on THEIR fears, no some random, manufactured scary/dangerous “self-help” exercise.
Lanna Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 11:18 pm
@Jack,
Psh, PTSD patients’ CAPS scores only improved an average of 35 points with virtual reality-graded exposure therapy. They’d be better off taking Ecstacy – 53 points, baby!
Hippo Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
@Solar Flare,
The magicians Penn & Teller had a segment on this very thing on their TV show called “Bullshit!,” which is an excellent program bringing con-games into the light.
The reason the firewalk works is this: wood embers are used, not coal, because wood is a slow conductor of heat. Also, the soles of a person’s feet are slow to feel heat. If you walk at a moderate pace, there is no way you will get burned. This is a scientific fact, NOT mind-over-matter.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Solar Flare Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 12:37 am
@Hippo, Well, I respect your take on it, but have you ever done it? A few people did get minor burns. It’s just 4 steps, but believe me, you can feel the heat on your feet!!
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 2:53 am
@Solar Flare,
No, I’ve never done it, and if you feel it helped you, that’s fine. Just the fact that you were able to do it rather than being paralyzed is an accomplishment.
If you ever attend another one of these events, try asking them to substitute hot coals for the wood embers and see what they say.
The problem, I think, is that people are led to believe they achieved this with the power of their minds, and are then encouraged to try things that are more risky, perhaps even foolish.
Ross Jeffries Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@Hippo,
The whole idea of doing the firewalk came from a discussion Tony “Glitter Teeth” Robbins was having with one of the founders of NLP, John Grinder.
At the time, Tony was going pretty much nowhere with his attempts at fame. He asked John how he could break out of that rut.
John said, “Borrow something from another culture that Americans could see as a metaphor for breaking through their problems”.
Tony went to Fiji, saw a firewalk, and the light went off in his psychopathic mind.
RJ
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:51 am
@Ross Jeffries,
That makes sense. Thank you for the info.
Mark Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:52 pm
@Ross Jeffries,
There was once a guy who was going nowhere picking up chicks.
The gurus said “You can control anyone with NLP”…
And a light went off in his psychopathic mind.
Anonymous Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@ Bonnie
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/arts/circus-arts/firewalking1.htm
“This lightweight carbon structure [of burned coals] is a poor conductor of heat. It takes a relatively long time for heat to transfer from the glowing coal to your skin. If the coal were made of red-hot metal, heat transfer through conduction would be almost instantaneous — you would get a severe burn.
Now, add to that the fact that ash is a very good insulator. People used to use ash to insulate ice boxes and such. The red-hot coals covered with ash transfer their heat even more slowly because the ash acts as a layer of insulation.
Then there is the short time span. Heat transfer from a red-hot coal is slow, but it still happens. If you were to stand still on the coals for several seconds, you would definitely get a burn. By walking briskly, you limit your contact with individual coals to a very short time span. ”
You’re right Bonnie, the trick is (1) science and (2) walk more quickly than the transfer of heat.
I can understand that doing a firewalk might boost someone’s confidence, but I’d much prefer the people running it taught the actual science behind it. Knowing how the world around you works from a scientific standpoint is more likely to enable you to “do anything” than claiming it comes from a spiritual place
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:05 am
@,
The thing a person could legitimately take away from a firewalk is that they were apprehensive about trying it, but did it anyway.
This could be a legitimate confidence-builder, or it could lead a person to become over-confident and make mistakes.
The problem is that people are told they did it with the power of their minds.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:22 am
@Jack,
Ah yes, the Fire-walk. The oh-so-trendy, snazzy, self-empowering, “And Now You Can Do ANYTHING!!!” super-scrum-didiliumptious Fire-walk!
That thing makes me so disgusted and sad.
The thing is–there was never a time when I thought a fire walk was miraculous or magical. For whatever reason, in this particular case, well before I had the specifics of (lack of) heat transfer explained to me, it was always sort of intuitively obvious to me that what was going on here was just some thing where people were just avoiding getting burned by not taking too long to get across the coals and something to do with the nature of the coals themselves. (Because obviously this stunt won’t work if you replace the hot coals with, say for example, a field freshly sprayed with kerosene, gasoline, and lighter fluid and just set on fire a moment ago. Yeah go try running through that.
And is a fire-walk a trick? @Solar Flare says “no” below because he/she successively walked on hot coals in the 80s., but @Solar Flare was accidentally missing the point.
It is a trick if the fire walk was represented as some sort of mind over matter thing. If the folks leading the fire-walk said something like,
It’s brain-damaged level retarded. People should have an honest person leading them into the craziness instead. And, IMHO, they’d still be able to get the same thrilling sense of having done something difficult and dangerous. Because, yeah by the laws of physics there may be very little actual danger, but things can still go wrong–you could still get blisters or some sort of severe burn if someone screwed up with the preparation or if you, for whatever reason, don’t step right.
And the event still carries with it the symbolic significance of having walked through fire.
One of the worst things about Death Ray and his ilk (the single worst thing is the getting people killed part) is his perversion of an activity that many people will want to take part in for vaguely defined “spiritual” reasons.
I consider myself a rational person. But if I happened to be at the right place at the right time, and with a proper sort of event manager (not some demon-in-human-skin psychopath like JAR), I might actually want to partake in a fire walk myself. Because I’m a human. And humans need rituals, festivals, and occasionally some of us need to something a little bit thrilling and/or stupid to feel fully alive.
When you compare fire-walking to hang gliding or cliff diving or something, the fire-walking looks downright tame.
A proper fire-walk event manager should have people sign some disclaimers before the beginning, and should take every possible safety precaution. One of those precautions would be to educate people on just exactly what’s about to happen. He or she would most certainly not claim that the fire-walk is some sort of mind over matter faith crap.
Well, there I go rambling again. Did I make any sense? :-)
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Wyrd,
Yep…And of course the “teacher” who gets people believing it’s magic builds up his own status as being mega-magical. And hierarchy is everything when it comes to maintaining status as a master of non-existent powers.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@Yakaru, Maybe could say it’s about on par with early, disturbing, Tarzan movies.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:02 pm
@Jack,
Ugh. Shut the fuck up, Oprah.
[Reply]
[...] torturer, James Arthur Ray, has been sentenced to two years in prison for three of the four lives he snuffed out. (Also, a wrongful death civil [...]
WINNER!! ::
+7
In the case where they say these people chose to stay how can that be accurate. James Shore went back in to help others, didn’t he?
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 19th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
@lin ::
Yep … ridiculous.
[Reply]
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-6
[Reply]
yep, this is the best site ever in many ways, but in particular for the busting of sociopathic/narcissist damaging cons. I live in a world where many don’t get it, even some friends, (I used to be among them)…and I LOVE SALTY’S CLARITY on these types…..he’s dead on about them…and his voice echoes my thinking, so thank-you for that Salty, and keep on keeping on. A Powerful cause it is.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
one more thing—that judge is some kind of dumbass…or something.
[Reply]
YES! and NOOOOO!
Yes Death Ray got a stint in the pokey – as Darrow Darrow the Justice Man say’s “Ray tried to help people” he can now spread the word in jail where his congregations is going to be “Bubba and Co”.
NOOOO! I watched this live streamed in London on Friday and was getting that fucking queasy feeling that Darrow was going to fudge this. And He did! Blame the victims, responsible adults for F..ks sake Judge get a grip.
and that fucking performance from Death Ray himself – I really wanted to a “Jack Ruby” on him – bastard.
Anyway as Connie and SD have said – this is the first salvo in the war.
In the same way the “Arab Spring” started with one man’s self-immolation this is the first shot in the war.
A war which even now has ignited on Facebook – just check out the Kool Aid drinkers are praying for James…. my pal Carter Jain and others are taking them on there. http://www.facebook.com/officialfansjamesarthurray
I read some of the comments and realize how far these scum bags have sunk their poisonous fangs into the culture….
They can spread their manure as far and wide but in the end we are going to win.
’nuff said
CN
Like a many headed hydra
[Reply]
At 5485 followers I hardly think he has a following that will affect the future. Give it a few years of silence and the majority will have moved on to the next Hope Pill. And it will not even resemble anything that James Ray currently represents right now. In fact right now I doubt any of the people in the secret movie could reasonably expect their opportunities will ever be the same again. Their lives have forever and irrevocably changed for the worse.
[Reply]
Ray is in the infirmary…
…http://apps.co.yavapai.az.us/inmatesearch/InmateSearchYC.asp
Maybe his motivational speech didn’t go as well as he’d hoped…or, the other inmates just refused to accept his help….Law of Attraction at work, maybe??
[Reply]
Sunny Side Up Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
@omikse, Could his stint in the infirmary not be due to the fact he was taking an AVALANCHE of pills & potions prior to sentencing, some prescription some not, & no doubt some would be v. dangerous to just stop? He may need to be weaned off those ‘life enhancing, secret of youth’ ones he’s been on for years. I reckon they’re paring down his intake but have to ensure it’s safe to do so. Inmates are only allowed prescription meds in jail, I believe.
[Reply]
Anna Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@omikse, I believe he’s in the infirmary cuz he’s a coward chicken shit stalling before he goes to hang out with the ‘big boys’ Can’t stay there forever – c’mon play full on – you’ll feel like you’re going to die and you just might……
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@Anna,
Hahaha! Sorry, but that’s just too funny!
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:55 am
@omikse,
Or maybe he got beaten up already?
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 11:18 am
@Hippo,
We should be so lucky.
[Reply]
Pathfinder1001 Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 8:37 pm
@omikse, He is in the infirmiry as part of the standard procedure for intake process. He will also be held incommicado for 2 weeks. ADC even has a video to show this. He will also have to perform manual labor of some sort.
[Reply]
omikse Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
@Pathfinder1001,…Maybe Ray can do some heavy lifting as a form of manual labor, and pick-up and put-down the *Truth* for a change…they say it will set you free. Although in Ray’s case, I would just hope for a mere glimmer of a conscience that would eat him alive, or at the very least, torment him for eternity for his inexcusable behavior.
[Reply]
Pathfinder1001 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 10:40 am
@omikse, We can only hope that there will be a crack of the edifce of his denial. From what I have read, the is not a lot of hope for psychopaths, since their whole outlook is about them and not about what they did to others. If such shift did occur, the realization would both be devastating, but it also be a step on the road to taking responsibility for what he has done and recovery.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 11:52 am
@Pathfinder1001,
I don’t think we should hold our breath waiting for this one to change, he is way too long in the tooth already.
I cheer myself up by thinking he might top himself, if the nasty food, nasty company, nasty guards, nasty environment, and just the plain nastiness of prison life don’t get him first.
We have two years, less about 30 days.
Time enough.
[Reply]
I guess there’s more than one thing that Native Americans know that James didn’t understand and will probably never learn:
Elder’s Meditation of the Day – November 20
“Money cannot buy affection.” – Mangas Coloradas, APACHE
In these modern times we put too much emphasis on material things and on money. We believe that money is power. If we have money, people will respect us. If we have money, people will admire us. If we have money, we can have anything we want. Maybe we can purchase anything in the material world, but we cannot purchase anything in the Unseen World. The Unseen World is not for sale. It can only be given away. Love, affection, admiration, trust, respect, commitment — these must be earned or given away. If we use these things from the Unseen World, we are using real power.
My Creator, let me demonstrate Your power today. Let me be loving to all I meet.
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 10:49 pm
@Bonnie,
Speaking of which, isn’t there a lawsuit pending against Ray by some Native American group? I can’t remember any of the details–would you happen to know?
Anyone? Bueller?
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 7:41 am
@Hippo,
There’s some info on the Native American lawsuits here.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450,page=144
This one failed but I understand that the Lakota have at least one other ongoing and I’m sure there will be more since this is a very contentious and upsetting issue for them.
There are links to Native American sites covering the issue in the thread.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 11:33 am
@stoic,
Thank you so much for the info. Even if the lawsuits fail, at least the publicity helps.
If the lawsuits don’t quite meet the legal requirements, they should still be able to sue James Ray under some type of catch-all “asshole” category.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 11:46 am
@Hippo,
The problem is, it isn’t very well advertised. Everything that he is charged for, taken to court for, found guilty of, should be in every newspaper and on every newscast across America and in all the major cities around the world (since he attracts “suckers” globally) — but that isn’t ever going to happen. So those who need to know what’s going on and has gone on most likely will not. Unfortunately.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@Bonnie,
I understand. Hopefully the internet will be a good avenue to spread the word around.
As an example, the Church of $cientology was fairly successful and was able to keep their BS under wraps, until disgruntled ex-members started posting their secrets on the internet.
Thanks to people who disseminated this information, CO$ has dwindled greatly and is not in a position to cause as much harm as it once did.
I hope someday they’re out of business completely.
Hippo,
“It’s probably too much to hope for that he’s getting a personality transplant?”
Are they doing lobotomies in prison now?
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@White Rabbit,
Lobotomies on low bottomies?
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
Well I guess the good part is at least he got some prison. At least that’s two years during which the public won’t have to get scammed by that particular scammer.
Yeah, it’s really sad the judge apparently went to the “blame the victims” mentality. As a judge, he should know that whole “it’s just common sense” thing isn’t fair or helpful, but apparently not.
The trouble is that what constitutes “common sense” for one person will not be the same for another.
Saying that the victims were responsible for not exercising “common sense” is the kind of BS rationalization that you could only get away with when you’re completely emotionally disconnected from the plight of the victims–say like, you know, if you’re a sociopath or if you’re a lackluster judge and you haven’t bothered to become particularly knowledgeable of the inner dynamics of the case.
Maybe what would actually throw a spanner in the works of the sick machine would be
1) the establishment of a legal precedent regarding the liability of Big Media Corps as regards the quality of information they are allowed to pump out over their airwaves and
2) some sort of requirement that the law treat these cases similar to the way they would treat cult programming situations. That is assuming they have a good way of handling those right now.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
lin Reply:
November 20th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
@Wyrd, perhaps Darrow has Aspbergers,
[Reply]
Pathfinder1001 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
@Wyrd, Judge Darrow completely ignored or discounted the arguments the Prosecution laid out regarding JAR’s abilities for persuasion, NLP and group hypnosis. I wish the Prosecution had brought in Rick Ross to testify on this, but did not. Had these facts been brought in front of the jury, the possibility for conviction of manslaughter would have been higher. Even with negligible homicide, Darrow did a horrible job.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@Pathfinder1001,
Yes, would have been interesting to see. The defense would have had a field day with his prior convictions of course, but it might have helped the jury understand just how manipulative and disconnected Ray was from the experiences of his students.
On the other hand, it could also have blown up into the media blaming “cult members” for their own “stupidity”, and maybe even the jury losing a bit of sympathy.
The whole “cult” angle is tricky. Some on twitter were harassing bereaved relatives that their beloved was a “cult member” and that they are in denial. But that misses the fact it wasn’t just manipulation tactics at work. It was also straight out lies, and a unbelievable degree of indifference to human suffering on Ray’s part. As well as the heat stroke.
The swift way many people acted as soon as the heat stroke wore off shows that there weren’t so many brainwashed cult members at all.
(I’m sure Ms Polk & Mr Ross would have avoided such misunderstandings, but it would still have been tricky.)
I doubt anything would have improved Darrow’s grip on situation. I don’t suspect any foul play especially, but I suspect his long association with Kelly made him subconsciously accord more credibility to the prosecution than he would have with just the city lawyers. They obviously employed Kelly for that reason.
@lin,
Yes – if he didn’t have it before, he may well have developed it after listening to Truc Do’s crosses!
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 7:22 pm
@Yakaru,
I don’t understand this. Even if someone is a brainwashed cult member, do they deserve to die?
Why should we have less sympathy for someone who has been brainwashed?
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
@Hippo,
Its because if the lid is lifted on the cult brainwashing then it might cause people to look closer at all the other, very similar propaganda techniques that fuel our capitalist way of life.
There isn’t anything unusual about the brainwashing techniques themselves, its the extremes to which they are put (closed environment, no outside communication, authoritarian hierarchy established) that distinguish them from just normal stuff that goes on everywhere in society.
People are uncomfortable looking too closely because they don’t want to question all the second-hand truths that they themselves unthinkingly accept—-who has the time for that in this economy?
[Reply]
I’m glad he was sentenced to some jail time, and I definitely don’t think it was long enough.
I think he’ll come out and try to pull a true-dough and say that he was so good at helping people that they needed to lock him away in order to prevent him from reaching his full potential, etc. etc. some other bullshit.
I would not be surprised if he somehow managed to get Darrow or Shitleaf, or someone like them (Oprah maybe? I hear she’s retired now) on board and endorse his true powers that they want to keep from you.
Or some such thing.
That’s more than enough for people that want to believe.
[Reply]
@Hippo, It’s always good to hear other opinions… Meanwhile, Ross Jeffries replying to you re: psychopaths?? Pot calling the kettle black again (sigh).
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:53 am
@Solar Flare,
Yes, I have to take a shower or at least brush my teeth after posting to him.
He’s very knowledgeable, but he makes my heart hurt.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:11 pm
@Solar Flare ::
I have kinda an oil/water :: matter/anti-matter :: situation going with psychopaths. @RJ has been taking my abuse for several years now … so he can’t be. He’s just disturbingly disturbed.
@Ross Jeffries ::
Find Jesus … or something.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:04 pm
@SD,
In the meantime, would you like some mouthwash? It helps.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 3:03 am
@SD,
I think that he has already found buddhism, by all accounts.
I find him interesting (except for the the pua part)and would still like to see a re-run of his early TV appearance when he went on some talk show posing as a satanist.
Any hope of that, Ross Jeffries?
It sounds like a hoot.
[Reply]
@Hippo, True that Murray hasn’t been sentenced yet, but I doubt the judge will say that he was trying to help MJ. Remember as soon as the jury came back with the guilty verdict he refused to allow him to walk free until sentencing. He said he was a danger to the community, so even people who he has helped as a cardiologist probably wouldn’t mitigate his sentence one bit. But we shall see.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:28 pm
@lin,
Well, I hope you’re right. I think the sentencing for Dr. Murray is coming up, so we will find out soon enough.
[Reply]
Now here’s a question..not being involved in the law I feel kinda dumb to ask but why was this not a Federal case given that it was based on advertising that was done from one state to get people to attend a function in another? When he refused to refund money to anyone right after they signed up, wouldn’t that violate some kind of FTC law? Most interstate deals are subject to a opt out clause within a couple of days? He sold them something on the internet without giving them all of the rules for signing up or changing their minds.
And their are rules for counseling or therapy being done without a license. I don’t care how many credits he was away from a psychology degree as he claims. I forgot the name of another sociopathic killer but he took all kinds of classes so he could fake a split personality.
And as for people saying he will have no money by the time he gets out, you can bet it’s hidden somewhere and he’s not broke like he claims. But the feds should be watching him very carefully. How about tax evasion?
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:23 pm
@lin,
I agree with you, Lin. Besides all the millions he spent on his lawyers (and don’t anyone think for a moment that they were working for nothing because he was broke), and for whatever the almost sure payoff to Darrow was, which would have been in the millions too for him to act like such a moron on the bench, after all that, he’s still got millions hidden away — one just has to add up the millions that he had coming in every year. Any fool with half a brain could have figured out that.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:10 pm
@lin,
I understand he had a “refund window” which I think is legally required. However, it was only after that period had elapsed that he would send out the waivers and other forms, informing people that their money was gone if they pull out of the event, that the event might kill them, that his teachings might be useless and that they might be screwed over in ways they couldn’t begin to imagine, etc.
I imagine that he was running a fairly standard business program already worked out by others and currently being implemented by all the others too. So I expect the whole scam has been carefully developed and refined to fit exactly into the gray areas of all the relevant laws.
The details have only been exposed in relation to Death Ray (and only the tip of the ice berg), but I expect all of them in his profession are running exactly the same dirty exploitive program.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:04 pm
@lin ::
Whether or not something is a “federal case” is all about whether or not the feds want to act on a particular issue. The U.S. Criminal Code :: Title 18 :: is way too long … so too long. It covers everything.
This should have been a “Federal case” before people died. But it wasn’t. This should have been a “Federal case” after it happend but before Ms. Polk acted. But it wasn’t. This should be a “Federal case” now that an Arizona Judge failed us all so miserably …
… but.
[Reply]
lin Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
@SD, thanks for the information. I was confused as to why it was such a local issue when the crime involved people from all over who were falsely recruited via the internet or mail. The next question I have, then, is if the Feds did decide to take it on would he have to do the defense all over again or is that double jeopardy?
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
@lin,
I would just love it if he could get tried again — I KNOW he wouldn’t get off so ridiculously easy like he has. There can’t possibly be another wimpy immoral (and probably paid off!) judge like Darrow out there. I mean, I know there are, but the chance of JAR getting a second one are slim to none.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
January 8th, 2012 at 11:51 am
@SD,
Is there any way for the Feds to charge Ray with violation of people’s civil rights?
[Reply]
Salty is right…we must keep our eye on the war…after a very intense sentencing day that I followed along via Camille Kimball tweets I found myself sobbing right along with the family members present in the courtroom and at home. I am also disappointed with a 6 year sentence condensed into 2 short years…why didn’t the judge simply say it as it really is: 8 months for each person James Ray KILLED in the sweat lodge. The bottom line is: HE IS BEHIND BARS! I hope and pray that this is just the beginning of Ray’s problems. . . with so many of us working together and watching him when he gets out, justice will have it’s day…we are patient (and many) if nothing else! Thank you Salty and thank you to all the people who comment on this site. My heart goes out to all the family members of Kirby, James and Liz…it will never be over for us, but at least we do not have to keep reliving the awful day that we lost our loved ones.
WINNER!! ::
+16
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:30 pm
@Colleen’s sister,
I am sooo glad that your family is filing that wrongful death suit against JAR..I hope you get alot! I hope that he is dragged out into court so that he has to THINK ABOUT WHAT HE DID to Colleen!!!
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:32 pm
@Colleen’s sister ::
Felicia Fonseca quoting Luis the Rich …
First of all :: bite me pig!
Second of all :: I hope the opposite. “Peace” is not what you find when your loved ones are stolen from you without cause :: explanation :: or justification. It’s resolve :: determination :: and commitment that are best born from avoidable :: unnatural :: suffering. In the name of dead … for the sake of the living.
The wrong remains to be righted.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:07 pm
@Colleen’s sister,
Well, the sentence is probably better worded the way it is. In the unlikely event that one of the sentences was overturned, he would still have to serve the same length of time. If he got eight months for each person, then one sentence was overturned, his sentence would be cut down by one-third.
Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m not a lawyer.
[Reply]
Colleen’s sister Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am
@Wondering Why…I would like to hope that JR will think about what he has done…to all the families…however, I do not believe JR possesses any true emotion especially regret or remorse. The best we can do is to keep plugging along doing what each of us can do!
@SD….I also am hoping for the opposite…wrong is still wrong and I do not know where my family would be without your support!
@Hippo, You’re right about the wording…I am just mad and blowing off steam…stupid judge!
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 4:14 pm
@, Well at least he will no longer be able to pretend that Colleen and her death didn’t exist now..
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 1:49 am
@Colleen’s sister,
I hope that the California judge will allow your family to use the “prior bad acts” law, or whatever it’s called.
Or are the cases too dissimilar? Also, the sweat lodge deaths were AFTER Colleen’s death, so they’re not really prior, are they?
I guess I would not make a very good lawyer. LOL
I was hoping that this conviction would help your case somehow. Colleen is the forgotten victim in all this.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 5:58 am
@Hippo,
WE will never forget.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 10:36 pm
@Bonnie,
I agree, but Colleen needs LEGAL recognition of James Ray’s culpability.
Pathfinder1001 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
@Hippo, Remember the OJ civil suite by Nicole’s family for wrongful death. The “bar” for finding negligence for wrongful death in civil court is much lower than in criminal court. I do not know what evidence would be allowed, but would hope that all is fair game through discovery. Other legal types, including Salty, on this blog can comment on admissability of evidence for civil lawsuits.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
@Pathfinder1001,
I remember both trials well. Not only was the “bar” set lower, the civil trial was in Santa Monica instead of downtown LA. There are more well-educated people on the west side of Los Angeles than in the downtown area, and I think the fact that they understood the DNA evidence better may have made a difference.
I was very disheartened to hear an OJ juror from the criminal case remark, “Lots of people have the same blood type.” And I wondered if the scientific stuff was going over their heads.
I still think the prosecution might have won their case if they’d filed in the district where the crime occurred, the West District, and the trial would have been in Santa Monica instead of the Central District.
stoic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@Hippo,
Colleen unfortunately had pre-paid and was booked onto Spiritual Warrior also, I believe. (The family were never offered the money back either.)
What happened at SW–three more deaths–and the trial conclusion of negligent homicide will go some way to establishing a pattern of escalation of negligent behaviour.
It could open the door for a proper examination of the techniques used and their known side effects (onset of sudden psychotic breaks) in some people.
Quite a few previous cases of inexplicable sudden suicide at Large Group Awareness Training events (who all use these same techniques) and some good work done on identifying how and why this tech works.
Mr Ross has a mine of info on all this:
http://www.rickross.com/
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
@stoic,
Would it still be admissible even though Colleen died BEFORE the sweat lodge?
stoic Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
@hippo,
If he was using the same techniques–which he was, he had how-to manuals on the various seminars which were intended as a progressive ‘ladder of manipulation’–as an accepted part of his business operation, it would go towards showing a constant and continuing intent, even though the 3 people he was convicted for died after Colleen.
He didn’t alter his negligent practices from Colleen’s death to the next three, and he didn’t suddenly come up with a negligent attitude on October 1st.
All the techniques are intended to cause a behavioural change in the customer–why else did they fork out all that money?
Ray didn’t care what the behavioural change was otherwise he would have studied up a bit more and taught some ethical practices first. He just wanted A CHANGE, any change, so that he could then con the customers into thinking that they had what they paid for–and it would have been a different woolly notion for each customer, had he ever been interested enough to ask them.
Specific changes were of no interest to him once he had their money in the off-shore bank, so he didn’t care if people died or not.
He wasn’t ever going to take responsibility–he had them sign a waiver that absolved him even in the event of death.
And today, November 22 — besides being the anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy — is Jimmy Ray’s 54th birthday. I wonder if anyone will try to sneak him a birthday cake with a nail file in it.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
I would hope it would be filled with poison — like he poisoned so many lives.
[Reply]
Maria Mandros Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:03 pm
@Cosmic Connie, @Bonnie,
Perhaps He’ll get a different kind of birthday present. He might not get to BLOW out any candles but he might have to blow something else on his big day in the slammer ;)
Sowwy I couldn’t resist.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 1:43 am
@Maria Mandros,
If he’s still in the infirmary, things are probably relatively tame in there.
Assuming he’s being treated for some sort of stress/panic/depression, I wonder how long he can stretch out his stay? Or could he be in for drug withdrawal?
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 2:43 am
@Hippo,
I don’t know the form in US prisons but here a short stay in the hospital wing/infirmary is the norm for a first-timer and for someone who is a first-timer at such an advanced age.
The culture shock is great enough to make such a person a possible suicide risk and he will be under observation for that amongst other things. It is seen as a transition and acclimatisation into the tough life of the prison.
Not that it ever works particularly well, is always applied or that all prison medics are that interested in the prisoner’s mental welfare.
It is still, however, rather more thought and care than DeathRay ever extended to his paying customers.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 6:25 am
@Cosmic Connie,
I have an old cardboard emery nailfile that I’m willing to donate, and can boil up some week-old roadkill stew to hide it in–not being much of a baker.
Should make a tasty and nutritious change from the $1 a day prison scran that poor James (‘my body is a temple, thats why I feed it unnecessary artificial hormones, steroids and exorbitantly priced green grass gloop’) must now either swallow or starve.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 8:26 am
@Cosmic Connie, is that so he can give himself a nice manicure? lol
[Reply]
Dorothy Schley, Colorado Springs Spirituality Examiner
November 22, 2011
A journal entry after the James Ray sweat lodge tragedy
http://www.examiner.com/spirituality-in-colorado-springs/my-thoughts-after-the-james-ray-sweat-lodge-tragedy
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm
@Bonnie,
And don’t forget to read the comments at the bottom, as they are equally as good. ;)
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 1:44 am
@Bonnie,
Wow, that one lady who spent all that money must really be kicking herself. She still dodged a bullet; it could have been far worse.
[Reply]
Update from Connie on FB: “Where in the world is JAR? I just received this info from a source who would like to remain anonymous: He arrived at the Phx-Alhambra Intake Center yesterday (Sunday). They only update their website inmate records on the weekends, so he missed that update. He will be there for 2 weeks for processing, with no visits or phone calls during that time. After the intake process, he will then be moved to his permanent location (facility). His prison number is: 267823.” -from Connie.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@Solar Flare,
Thanks for posting that. I saw that earlier and the first thing I thought was that they didn’t give him enough 6′s — it should have been 666 666
[Reply]
Solar Flare Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 9:56 pm
@Bonnie, LOL!! Correction from Connie: He arrived at the Phx-Alhambra Intake Center yesterday on Tuesday not Sunday.
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 7:36 pm
@Solar Flare, Hi Folks, Here’s the link to the AZ Corrections site with Death Ray’s new web page! He looks happy in his new outfit with the cute collar. Two years seems like so little time for his heinous crimes, but at his age and physical condition, it will be hard on him. When the lack of botox and steroids starts to kick in, he will deflate back to his true appearance; wrinkled and weak, just like the Shampire we all know he is.
http://www.azcorrections.gov/inmate_datasearch/results_Minh.aspx?
InmateNumber=267823&LastName=RAY&FNMI=J&SearchType=SearchInet
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
@Jean D,
I think that’s a cowl-neck collar, is it not? Orange isn’t really his color.
He looks like he’s mad enough to spit nails.
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
@Hippo,
I agree it’s like he is saying my damn lawyers were supposed to keep me outta here..I can’t believe that judge didn’t give me the probation that I begged for..I cried on cue really well..
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
@Jean D, Thx.
Shortlink to page: http://1.usa.gov/syU4FV
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
@Jack, Thanks Jack for the shortlink..That look on his face to me looks like he really thought he was going to get probation..
[Reply]
Wondering why Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
@, I keep forgetting to type my name in..Wondering Why
[Reply]
Colleen's brother-in-law Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
@Jack, anybody else notice on sentence expiration date towards the bottom…….july, 25th 2013…this is the anniversary of colleens death, and she will still be dead…..hope this fucker rots in hell….just saying
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
@Colleen’s brother-in-law,
I just went and looked..Wow.. Hopefully your family will have won big in the wrongful death suit you have against him by then..I know it won’t be much consolation but maybe then he will be forced to look at what he did to Colleen..
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 6:03 am
@Colleen’s brother-in-law ::
Hopefully he starts the rotting process in his cell :: maybe gangrene or something.
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 4:22 pm
@Jack, Thanks Jack, I only posted part of it. @Wondering Why and @Hippo I luv the look on his face! Priceless!
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 6:08 am
@Jean D ::
It’s like his own FelonMySpace page … adorable!
There should be comments … and emoticons.
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@SD, Isn’t it great?! We can copy and paste the short link provided by @Jack to send a reality check to anyone who is crazy enough to still support him.
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 10:45 am
According to that page, Death Ray’s eye color is “unknown.” Perhaps the corrections people should refer to this blog, where they will learn that the correct answer is “red.” I also noted that Ray’s height and weight are both “0.” Goodness, maybe he has already rotted away, leaving nothing but a stain.
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Well, I guess since I wrote that comment above, they have decided JAR’s eyes are brown. How did he get *black* hair, though? Bad dye job?
[Reply]
Wednesday, 23 November 2011
“James Arthur Ray gets just 2 years, but he should have faced far more serious charges” by Shyam Sundar
http://corporatefraudswatch.blogspot.com/2011/11/james-arthur-ray-gets-just-2-years-but.html
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 7:51 pm
@Bonnie,
I don’t know if it’s my computer or what, but I’m missing part of that article. He starts a list of ten points, it goes only to nine and just stops.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 8:58 pm
@Hippo,
You’re right and I didn’t even notice that! I think he must have forgotten the 10th one and he just wrote it today so he probably hasn’t noticed. But I thought it was a very good write-up just the same. It appears that he is fighting the MLM industry, and apparently, JAR was part of Amway and Herbalife in some way, which is why he was after him.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 23rd, 2011 at 10:33 pm
@Bonnie,
Well, it’s a good article, and I hope he can get around to finishing it. I’m hoping this conviction will have a ripple effect of some kind; I’m not sure what to expect, but I think there will be something beyond Ray’s conviction and whatever time he ends up serving.
[Reply]
For a guy who had such seemingly immense power over people, he proved himself to be, in fact, utterly powerless. I mean..there are 2 people lying dead, another unconscious and on her way out, and 15 more badly injured, and this madman goes to take a shower and eat a freaking sandwich??? The police find him and tell him he needs to come talk to them and his answer “Right now?” What planet is he from? And the only time he showed any tears or emotion for the victims whatsoever is a minute before sentencing? And this heinous sociopath received only 2 years prison time? My best guess is that the judge was paid off, either that or he has the brainpower of an earthworm.
Well, isn’t nice to know that James sees this time in prison an opportunity to ‘help the prisoners’. The best he can do for them is to bend over.
My heart goes out to the victims and their families. I am so sorry, so very very sorry for your tragic loss.
[Reply]
Anne Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 1:01 am
@Nicole, People who seek to have ‘power over’ other people, generally do so precisely because they lack internal power.
[Reply]
Nicole Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 1:17 am
@Anne, That makes sense.. I never looked at it that way before but clearly this guy had a habit of sweeping responsibilty under the rug, hoping no one would notice. A suicide, three more deaths, and countless injuries to the people in the lodge and at events- ie. broken bones and 3rd degree burns. All he did was watch. A very sick individual indeed.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
December 3rd, 2011 at 11:11 am
@Nicole,
I am still unclear as to the exact nature and extent of the injuries suffered by the other sweat lodge attendees. I am referring to permanent brain injury, organ damage, and other things that will never heal.
Does anyone have any information on this?
[Reply]
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-17
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
@Tony, Really? It’s that you think people who’s loved ones DIED and are COMMENTING here didn’t pay CLOSE attention to the trial?
Did your mother go about dropping you upon your head repeatedly yesterday?
[Reply]
Nicole Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:44 am
@Tony, Really? Watch this brief video and then tell us what you think-
(there are many, many more like it)
Excerpt from video
They did say “She’s passed out, she’s passed out, I don’t know if she’s breathing” and he said “The door has now closed and this round has begun, we’ll deal with that at the end of this round.”
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 4:59 am
@Tony,
Are you going to keep regurgitating this psychopaths already worn-out pap?
Even while he does not enough jail-time for his murderous money-grubbing ways?
Tells us exactly what you are, and its not any relation to one of the dead victims.
Not even the same species.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 10:49 am
@Tony,
This Tony guy sounds like Lee Kuan..
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
@,
Nah, this Tony sounds too lucid still to be Lee Kuan. He is what Lee Kuan probably sounded like a few years ago, before the DeathRay psychosis really got a grip.
Be warned, Tony, there but for the grace of timely psychotropic drug intervention, go you, too.
[Reply]
wondering why Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@stoic,
Lee Kuan always tries to blame Angel Valley also..
[Reply]
Lily Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@Tony, I’m calling bullshit on your pathetic lies. I know you aren’t my cousin… and I know the other family members I asked won’t claim you… and I know you weren’t sitting in that courtroom throughout the trial paying attention to testimony and evidence, because I was and you weren’t there… and I know your pitiable excuses for James Ray are only half-truths, mis-truths and un-truths.
That sweat lodge was built to James Ray’s specifications — evidence ruled “prejudicial” by the judge, and therefore kept out of trial. Angel Valley has accepted their share of responsibility for complying with James Ray’s unsafe demands, and paid dearly for it. That does not exempt James Ray from his own responsibility and misdeeds before, during and after he conducted his death lodge in an unsafe and deadly manner, and then denied, hindered and delayed the life-saving medical aid these people desperately needed.
Nor did the Yavapai Sheriff’s department tell the owners at Angel Valley to destroy the death lodge materials. In accordance with legal procedure, the Sheriffs conducted a thorough investigation, taking notes, photographs, and samples of virtually everything possible, and then released the scene. This is standard protocol, in respect for private property rights. It was the choice of Angel Valley to then burn the materials in accordance with their spiritual beliefs.
Pretty damn desperate to try to pass yourself off as a victim in order to prop up your fallen idol. Is this what passes for honor and integrity and impeccability to James Ray’s true believers? Despicable. And pretty much what I’ve come to expect from his minions. Keep it up… please… the world needs to know the truth about James Ray and his ilk.
WINNER!! ::
+14
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 5:56 am
@Tony ::
What a gross thing to lie about … you are gross. Not as gross as Death Ray of course … but still gross.
Go be the fake cousin of someone still alive :: like Art Garfunkel …
http://www.artgarfunkel.com/
… he needs as many fake cousins as he can get.
[Reply]
People should get together and donate to a new trust fund called “The Sedona Victims Trust” and use that money to hold public pickets of JAR in the future if he tries to get back in the self-help business as well as picketing other fraudulent self-help gurus at their events in the present.
This idea is inspired by the Lisa McPherson Trust that was created by the late Bob Minton who bankrolled protests against Scientology in the late 90′s early 2000′s. It was a good idea but flawed because one person bankrolled the protests.
The problem with having one person bankrolling protests was legal action and dirty private investigative techniques in order to dig up dirt on the sole bankroller. This eventually happened to Minton when Scientology dug up financial irregularities in his background, reported them to the IRS and blackmailed Minton into shutting down the Lisa McPherson Trust.
With many people bankrolling “The Sedona Victims Trust”, possibly through anonymous donations, it would be difficult, if not impossible to stop by any nefarious legal methods or dirty tricks that may be employed by the scammers.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:06 am
@Sedona Victims Trust,
A sort of Wikileaks for the self-help/IM/personal development sphere, perhaps?
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:09 am
@stoic,
With footsoldiers styled after the Anonymous hordes?
Sounds like a plan.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 5:32 am
@Sedona Victims Trust ::
Protest is a bit retro for my taste … but I’ll be all like “way to go you guys!” … if someone else does it.
@Stoic ::
I thought I was wikileaks for the self-help/IM/personal development sphere?
Oh :: I guess not …
- cause I know what I’m doing
- cause I do actual work
- cause I’ve never asked for money
- cause I’m not an anti-semite
- cause my site still exists
- cause none of my sources have been compromised {or fucking jailed!}
- cause I forgot to rape anyone
- cause I filter information appropriately
- cause I’m not a complete and utter dead eyes psycho
boom!
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@SD,
‘I thought I was wikileaks for the self-help/IM/personal development sphere?’
Well, yeah, so did I.
I just didn’t want to go the whole hog, knowing that your roboticness shows a twinge of something vulnerable (jealousy, perhaps?) at Assanges’ mastery of the ‘dead-eyed psycho stare’ pose.
Real one’s can do a very good twinkly-eyed schtick, on occasion, and do.
Oh, the psychopaths I have known! ;)
[Reply]
This article about psychopaths conning their way through parole boards contains some familiar sounding language:
“Psychopaths are so adept at “putting on a good show” and using crocodile tears that they can be convincing to psychologists as well as other professionals. They use non-verbal behaviour, a “gift of gab”, and persuasive emotional displays to put on an Oscar award winning performance and move through the correctional system and ultimately parole boards relatively quickly, despite their known diagnosis…
“Further, we need to acknowledge that psychopathy is largely unchangeable. It isn’t possible to miraculously create a ‘conscience’ in adults who have not had a conscience previously. It’s the cold, hard truth. Acting ability should not be a criterion for release.”
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
@Yakaru,
There is quite a debate in the UK over whether such types can ever be locked up, even in max security mental facilities–since they are deemed incurable and a large function of detention in a democratic society is geared towards behavioural change(in theory, anyway)
Under our current human rights law there is a case being made that if detention cannot fix these people then we have no business depriving them of their liberty.
I only hope that no-one engages Louie Li and Truc Do to try to make that argument stick.
Cages! More cages!
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 11:28 am
@stoic,
I don’t understand this type of thinking. I agree that these people can’t be rehabilitated, but what about protecting the unsuspecting public from these freaks?
It seems like there should be a mandatory lifetime prison sentence for those who continually prey on vulnerable people.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 11:38 am
@Hippo,
And mandatory lifetime prison sentence for those who let them off (almost) scott free!
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stoic Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
@Hippo,
Its called ‘an ivory tower wank-fest’ where people not on the front-line dream up career-enhancing wheezes to justify their self-importance.
It has no bearing on reality at all and is ignored by sane front-liners, who endeavour at the same time to cover their own arses for ignoring the chain of command.
You have to be a fucking Machiavelli just to get through the day in one piece.
Bureaucracy, a giant operated by pygmies, as Balzac said.
There is way more kudos to be had from the futility of worrying about lost causes than from picking up the pieces in the chaos the lost causes create.
There is an obvious solution but we talked our way out of that 50 years ago when Mr Pierrepoint got pissed off and resigned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pierrepoint
He topped a few of your lot too, not a fussy chap, except for getting short-changed by the local sheriff.
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
@stoic,
I was looking for a different article when I found this set from 1999 and 2000, about then-Home Secretary Jack Straw’s idea to cage the UK’s psychopaths.
Psychopaths to be denied liberty
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/1999/feb/16/uk.politicalnews?INTCMP=SRCH
Not a sinking man, a floating Straw
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/1999/feb/16/politicalnews.politics?INTCMP=SRCH
Non-violent psychopaths face detention
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/jul/20/davidbrindle?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
Psychopaths have rights
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/1999/jul/21/guardianletters2?INTCMP=SRCH
Revolt over plan to jail psychopaths
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/sep/19/robinmckie.theobserver1?INTCMP=SRCH
MPs back detention of dangerous psychopaths
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/mar/15/davidbrindle?INTCMP=SRCH
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 6:50 am
@Lanna,
Yes, a difficult ethical dilemma, so we got the usual political fudge of ‘business as usual’ with the buck being passed down to the lowest common denominator.
Politicians have feelings too, and most of them are centred on the successful soundbite as they know the average attention span of their audience.(having spent mucho tax-dollars to fund the research)
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Tony, any comment on sweat lodge victim describing horror? Did you watch the video posted above and if so what are your thoughts? I’m curious to know.. please, do share.
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Bryan Neuman Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Nicole,
Please don’t encourage him. He’s just a lowlife internet troll trying to get a reaction. Salty has a great article called “Trolling for Trolls”
[Reply]
Nicole Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
On the contrary, I was encouraging him to go away; his response is as expected. Because even the most staunch supporters/family of James, if they had a conscience, could not possibly agree with his handling of the situation once he was made clearly aware that people were in danger. Personally I believe on some unconscious level he knew exactly what he was doing.
Regarding this tragedy, there’s simply not much to say in favor of James that won’t be immediately shot down with the facts.
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I have a question which may have already been addressed somewhere in this forum, forgive me if it has. But I am curious to know if there are others here who believe as I do that james knew what he was doing and where his non-action in the face of danger would lead. Not to say he was ‘trying’ to kill people per se, but that he wanted to bring them to the edge and if they ‘transitioned’ as he puts it, well…oh well. I am curious to know others theories on this. It’s just really difficult to grasp the thought process behind this crime (including the crime involving Colleen and his avoidance of the whole thing). Any feedback or links to this information would be appreciated. I do realize we’re dealing with a sociopathic personality, but that’s all I know regarding this.
PS- Salty, thank you for creating this community forum. I appreciate the support fostered here.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 5:14 am
@Nicole ::
Lots of people here … including me … think he basically did it on purpose because he’s a sick-demented-freak-bastard who should be caged in perpetuity.
Here’s one comment like that :: which I remember because it contains the word orgasmic.
http://saltydroid.info/mistrial-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-59114
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 10:55 am
@SD, Yes, that was a very good post. I think JeanD nailed it..And with all Rays talk of death in the days and months leading up to the “sweat lodge” he sure did seem to be obsessed with it. He probably figured he would get awsy with it, afterall, he had no problems getting away with it in Colleen’s case…The San Diego police seem to have a policy of claiming suicide in obvious homicide cases..Look at the murder at the Coronado mansion that they called a suicide..Got to wonder about the police in San Diego..
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Nicole Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
@SD, That’s heavy! I was giving him the benefit of the doubt in thinking that this was all a deeply unconscious urge on his part, as opposed to a consciously plotted out plan. But in reading the transcript provided by Stoic regarding a former victim’s heatstroke, clearly if he was turning up the temperature year after year after that event, he obviously knew full well he would be placing people in harm’s way.
I’m curious; regarding the following statement in JeanD’s post- “Ray has exhibited a strong orgasmic connection to hearing and seeing people suffer and die”… This is the first I’ve read about anything of a sexual nature. I’m just wondering if that was meant in literal terms and if so is there info I can follow up on? The more I read, the creepier it gets.
Something I thought was interesting was james saying during trial that he did all that he could to help the victims (you mean like- nothing???) and has been asking himself over and over this whole time what he could have done differently- which is purely indicative of a clear disconnect from reality, because in reality it sounds as if he intended harm and did not help anyone, except himself to a sandwich. Which by the way, the very fact that his instinct was to go shower and eat while people are strewn on the ground dead, dying, and badly injured is totally disturbing in and of itself.
I know I’m getting off track here, but does anyone happen to know if at these events where people were walking on broken glass, bending rebar with their necks, breaking bricks with their hands, etc.. did he actually demonstrate any of this himself? Sorry for all the questions folks!
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Hippo Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 12:24 am
@Nicole,
I don’t know if he demonstrated it himself, but I do remember reading somewhere that one participant broke either her hand or her arm, and he ridiculed her when she attempted to seek medical treatment. She went ahead and got her arm treated, and Ray gave her the cold shoulder for the rest of the event.
Maybe somebody can remember more about this.
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Nicole Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 1:46 am
@Hippo, Yes I read that, a very bizarre story! Here is the link and excerpt from Cosmic Connie’s article. From how it reads, it actually sounds like james caused the broken arm?!?! How do you get suddenly yanked up and shoved down to the ground mysteriously? I am very confused by this account and would really be curious to know what actually happened. The victim in this case sounds unsure of who did it but thinks it could be him..? Admittedly, this was one of the more confusing accounts I read because of the vague and ambiguous nature of an otherwise extreme occurence.
http://www.examiner.com/speculative-fiction-in-philadelphia/james-ray-s-escalating-patterns-of-abuse-leading-to-sweat-lodge-deaths-interview-with-lorena-bathey
‘Lorena tells me that the first day of the James Ray Spiritual Warrior retreat she broke her arm during the classroom teachings. She was sitting on the floor and stood up, while James Ray was standing suspiciously behind her. Lorena reports feeling as if she was yanked up and thrown back and when she landed she felt her arm break. At this point James Ray made a lame joke about how Lorena must be “falling” for him. She was obviously quite shocked and proceeded to the back of the classroom where the James Ray staff blocked her from exiting. She told the staff that her arm was broken and she needed to go to the hospital. The Dream Team told Lorena “Picture yourself playing Tennis” and tried repeatedly to make her sign a release form.’
Continue reading on Examiner.com James Ray’s escalating patterns of abuse leading to sweat lodge deaths: interview with Lorena Bathey – Philadelphia speculative fiction | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/speculative-fiction-in-philadelphia/james-ray-s-escalating-patterns-of-abuse-leading-to-sweat-lodge-deaths-interview-with-lorena-bathey#ixzz1f4sSBTb5
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 9:22 am
@Nicole, As much as I would love to take credit for that article you cited, it was our friend Cassandra Yorgey who wrote it. She did a great job, doggedly pursuing all the dirty details in her series of articles about Death Ray’s patterns of abuse.
stoic Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@Nicole,
Its in one of the police transcripts of an interview with the then wife of the chap who was hospitalised for heat stroke in a previous year. James pricked up his ears and got very interested on hearing of the near-death experience.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@stoic,
Daniel Pfankuch’s wife:
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450,82374#msg-82374
[Reply]
Nicole Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
@stoic, Very creepy! He does appear to have a fixation on death, both from this transcript and from more recent times.. I saw that video where he was wearing the t-shirt that said ‘Death to Death’..Wtf!
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 3:59 am
@Nicole,
re the sexual stuff. you might like to research how the sexual drive and drive to power become confused in some sexual psychopaths–leaving them very poor performers who then have to get their sexual kicks elsewhere.
Its a sort of metaphor, but played out for real by the worst ones and self-reinforcing over time.
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Nicole Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 10:36 am
@stoic, Thank you for the info..this is new to me, i will research!
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DownPlunder Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
@stoic, Very interesting, I’ve seen this and can definitely believe this. more info?
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stoic Reply:
November 29th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
@DownPlunder,
I don’t have any links as I looked into this long ago, using my own observations and a local medical library that had all the relevant specialist professional literature.
It is fairly well covered in those types of publication, most of which are available online but you have to sign up as its a bit of an arcane interest.
If you have access to a med library (in the vicinity of teaching hospitals or universities, usually)you’ll find everything you want and all the latest research and thinking, for free, there.
Those who play with native traditions and ceremonies are asking for trouble. Even we Native Americans do not play around with them. We have medicine people and tradition keepers who are trained for years and often that training starts in childhood.
Anyone acting ignorant of the dangers of using any sort of petroleum based material for a sweat lodge are either lying or they just plain don’t care. One does not have to be a chemist to know that plastic and heat always results in toxins. Further, anyone who knows how to pour a sweat knows that the fabric covering the lodge must be of a natural fiber or skin.
Too many of these sorts of self proclaimed shamans (strange how they don’t even know where that term comes from) do what they do for favor, fortune and fame. They violate our ways just to steal from those desperate to make a spiritual connection. Such fakes are more in line with what some call the devil than they are with anything sublime and holy.
Our REAL medicine people are not shamans and they don’t put on sweats and fake ceremonies for money. They never state who they are and they treat all who ask in a good way. Also, they never call themselves shamans. Each nation has a name in their own language for a medicine person, carrier and/or healer. The shamans, the REAL shamans are from norther Russia and Siberia.
As a line from a native song says (in Tsalagi):
Higotisgo na askaya, ganagati osda nvwodi equa
(Do you see that man? He’s a good doctor with great medicine)
Higotisgo na wannbe, nvwodi tlav adanvdo usti
(Do you see that wannabe? No medicine and little heart/spirit/soul)
WINNER!! ::
+8
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Thank you for your wise, thoughtful answer. He is a serious charlatan in alignment with dark forces…makes sense.
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Its just nice to have a Christmas with JR in jail. Thankyou big J. Now for the rest of them, bring on New Year.
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Cosmic Connie, thank you for the clarification!
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JAR is in Florence, AZ. Anybody know what his scores mean?? http://www.azcorrections.gov/inmate_datasearch/results_Minh.aspx?InmateNumber=267823&LastName=RAY&FNMI=J&SearchType=SearchInet
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@Solar Flare,
According to wikipedia they score security level on a 1 – 5 scale, with 5 being maximum security. They have Death Ray pegged at 2/3, so maybe they’re still working out exactly what kind of maniac he is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_State_Prison_Complex_–_Florence
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Solar Flare Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 7:51 pm
@Yakaru, Thx, wow! Now isn’t that interesting? How about Edu. = 4 and Voc. = 0 ?
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DownPlunder Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 8:14 pm
@Solar Flare, He looks stripped of his makeup, how ever will he cope? Some rap sheet. He will never escape that record.
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Lanna Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 10:47 pm
@Solar Flare,
Maybe he can become the second Salty Droid target to die by his own hand while in custody in Florence, AZ, this year.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 4:47 am
@Solar Flare,
Don’t know what they mean by Edu. = 4 and Voc. = 0. I’d like to think it means he’s a risk factor of 4 for the educated public – that would probably be about right.
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@Yakaru,
PrisonTalk.com user 1031 says Edu. 4 means his education needs are “Functional literacy needs (8th grade).” This is one step above “E5 Low IQ (possibly exempt)/ Foreign national.” Once he learns how to read at an 8th grade level, he can move up to “E3 GED needs,” and when he completes his GED he’ll be at “E2 Completed FL/GED.” Only at that point will he be eligible for Work Based Educational programming, and then he’ll get a Voc. score.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 1:22 pm
@Lanna,
That is very funny. So much for being “four hours short of a psychology degree”. So much for having spent “ten years studying quantum physics”.
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Wondering why Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
@Lanna, But.. but.. but..He wrote a best seller…lol
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stoic Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@Wondering why,
He channelled it down the harmonics into a ghost writer’s ear. Cosmic Connie can explain how its done as I think its her dayjob.
Yakaru Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 6:38 pm
@Wondering why,
He’s lucky they didn’t read through his twitter account. They would have put him in “E5 Low IQ (possibly exempt)/ Foreign national”.
SD Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 7:05 pm
@Lanna ::
OMG that’s funny.
Needs 8th Grade! … don’t remember that coming up in any of the sales materials … or on the Oprah.
Maybe he could get an e-book from Eben Pagan or something … 8th Grade-in-a-Box
Hey @stoic make sure that comes up over at Rick Ross. I feel it supports my point that he ain’t no Erhard. He doesn’t have hidden monies … he’s not an evil genius … he’s an evil idiot. He didn’t save … he didn’t plan … he didn’t do risk assessments … he didn’t make contingency plans.
It’s got to the pathetic point where you don’t even have to be good at it. LRH is rolling in his fucking grave at the shabbiness of it all.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 7:48 pm
@SD,
Your roboticness’s wish is my command. (I pinch stuff from here all the time anyway)
I disagree about the stash though, (or what’s left of it)– that’s what is keeping the family loyal and on-message.
Jack Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 9:42 pm
@Lanna, So bad news for him is being too overqualified to get Associate Editor at Copyblogger because soon before this comment I found out about the idea that they can only hire 6th Grade Writing people, because ms. Sonia Simone who goes about Associate Editing at CopyBlogger and also tells me that she makes Remarkable Communications…
…like giving me easy access to her “Blogs I Like”:
Chris Brogan
Copyblogger
Ittybiz
Men With Pens
Remarkablogger
Rock Your Day
Seth’s Blog
The Fluent Self
…gives the gold-rule when she tells us about making our content:
…which first seemed like a good and .vivid theory. to me, but then started me looking about my body to find the hidden messages.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 3rd, 2011 at 6:38 am
@Jack,
I started looking for the hidden messages too, but even my puny muscles aren’t that simple at all. Maybe I need some anabolic steroids to fix that, so that mine can be simple too.
Death Ray’s insurers settled up with the families of Kirby Brown, James Shore and Liz Neuman. The article, however, is totally fucked, as it doesn’t say until the very end that the money didn’t come from Ray but from his insurers.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/12/02/20111202sweat-lodge-lawsuits-ray-settlement.html
The fact that Ray’s insurers promptly settled up after his sentencing indicates to me that Ray’s attempts to get his sentence overturned are Just Not Gonna Happen. No insurance company likes to pay out.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 1:59 am
@mirele,
I seem to recall some of the families saying at the trial that they settled quickly because Mrs. Shore desperately needed her portion of the money.
Not sure how that would affect an appeal, though.
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Great article from LaVaughn looking at the bogus qualifications of the odious “Dr” Sean Stephenson.
http://bit.ly/sj6yZp
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Jack Reply:
December 3rd, 2011 at 12:48 pm
@Yakaru, Also Cosmic Connie makes great-comment there exposing his/others-like-him logic-twisting around degrees:
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Sorry if off-topic, but is anyone else getting a blank homepage & empty categories? Site upgrade, WordPress issues, or something more sinister? Is our favourite fake robot being momentarily prevented from fighting the good fight?
WINNER!! ::
+7
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Lanna Reply:
December 3rd, 2011 at 3:01 pm
@It could happen to anyone,
I’ve been seeing problems on the homepage since yesterday. I’m using Chrome 15.0.874.121 and Firefox 7.0.1 on Mac 10.6.8.
Header and nav menu including search box are there. Then it’s blank under “{ Targeting }” and “{ Focusing }” and there’s no articles listed, just white space. However, the “Categorically” bar is visible and “{ commentators }” and everything below it on the right are fine, and so are the “{ ball-o-tags }” and images at the bottom.
Empty areas show no content when I “View Page Source,” so WordPress isn’t finding the articles where it’s been told to find the articles. Direct links to articles work and search-box searches work, but “{ subjectories }” turn up “No posts found.”
The articles are still here, so I don’t think it’s “something more sinister.” Maybe it’s a server migration, or it could be issues with a WordPress or theme update. Or, possibly, it could be “an experiment” to show that the home page doesn’t matter because people will find the articles through search engines or that it’s about “the community” of commentators. It will make it difficult to find the next post if we have to guess at what to type into the search box, though.
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It could happen to anyone Reply:
December 3rd, 2011 at 3:32 pm
@Lanna,
Hmm. Interesting. I’ve had the same issues on a number of browsers (Chrome, Explorer, Safari). I get “No posts found” clicking on both categories & the “rogues gallery” at the bottom.
Many thanks for your reply – I’d been getting all sorts of conspiracy theorems flashing up, but I agree it’s much more likely to be something as prosaic as a WordPress hiccough or Server spasm ;-)
[Reply]
SD Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 3:02 am
@It could happen to anyone ::
something’s wrong with the server and all the categories have vanished. I can’t post either because nothing will upload … hopefully it will get fixed soon.
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Uncle Ralph Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 3:24 am
@It could happen to anyone,
I know the server people have previously made some modifications to handle SD’s higher than anticipated traffic, so there have been hiccups. I’m sure it will all be sorted out shortly.
Or, SD could just switch the blog to snail mail format, and call it, “The Salty Droid Letter.” Some of the regular commenters could have columns, such as _Cartman_’s popular series “Eye On Andros,” Jack’s thought-provoking “I Been Thinkin’ About It Some,” or Cosmic Connie’s strange-but-true factoids, “Oh, That Joe.”
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It could happen to anyont Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 5:09 am
@Uncle Ralph,
I like it. A lot. But you’ve missed out a key columnist; how could you have left out Barabara’s arcerbic wit & wisdom? Each issue would also have to be passed first to the douchebags, so they can add their troll comments to be ridicules by the columnists for the entire SD experience.
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it could happen to anyone Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@It could happen to anyont,
Spellcheck & proof-read, dolt!
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Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@Uncle Ralph, LOL, and thanks for the mention. ‘Course, I already have my own little forum (nearly five-and-a-half years old), even though I’ve been remiss about updating it lately. I would love to see more from some of our fave contributors that you and @It could happen to anyone mentioned. Meanwhile, I hope our little robot gets fully up and running again pronto. I have this mental pic of some of his detractors high-fiving, thanking the Universe, or secretly smirking because they think their magickal “cleaning” or “tapping” or other superstitious rituals caused the glitch. But I have a feeling @SD will be back soon, stronger than ever, to wipe the smirks right off of their faces.
[Reply]
Is there a place we could donate to keep this site operational without glitches? What would it cost a year?
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Jack Reply:
December 4th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
@Question, Probably have to do reverse-armed-robbery to make the fake-robot take money.
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Luther Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 6:00 am
@Question, What people don’t know about is that it’s only because of SD’s kindness and generosity that those glitches have a job. If it weren’t for SD, those glitches would probably have to take some other work, like messing with your MasterCard statement.
I don’t think there would be much savings if SD laid off those glitches like you were hinting at, because the annual budget for the whole operation is only something like 46 cents. But, if you’ve got access to those kinds of funds to donate, well that could take a lot of pressure off.
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SD Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
@Question ::
I’m not on a free speech server because I couldn’t pay my bills.
@Jack ::
… we’ll see … I feel changes coming.
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The odious and hate-filled fake “Dr” Sean Stephenson has turned up on LaVaughn’s site to get his butt kicked a bit more. Very funny. He agreed to remove some fake qualifications from his website, attacked LaVaughn for not being forgiving enough of torture, fraud and perjury.
http://celestial-reflections.blogspot.com/2011/12/sean-stephenson-diploma-mill-yoda.html
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SD Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Yakaru ::
Diploma Mill Yoda … not sure I can top that really. LaVaughn FTW!
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Kevin Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
@Yakaru, In that thread it was pointed out that many states, including the one he currently lives in (Illinois), have passed laws that bar recognition of fringe diploma-granting “institutions.” It was funny how he then replied that the “credential” issue would soon be a moot point, since he was moving to Phoenix [and Arizona doesn't yet have such a law]. Now I’m wondering if he is planning on moving to Arizona to be closer to his pal.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 8:11 am
@Kevin,
Stephenson is an idiot for trying to defend himself there. He really seems to think that all one need to to defend oneself is just turn up and act indignant. And he pulls all the old tricks – judging people for being judgmental, blaming people for not having forgiveness, etc. And he’s added a new one – arguing that it doesn’t matter that his credentials are bogus coz he’s moving to a state where it’s not illegal to have bogus credentials.
I bet Death Ray is really looking forward to his visits. He’ll probably tell the other inmates it’s Stephen Hawking.
@SD
I thought it was especially gutsy of her, given that it’s her professional site, aimed at people who are probably not used to seeing vitriolic attacks on cripples. Maybe she’ll start up a Celestial Salty Reflections blog.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 10:11 am
@Yakaru,
Stephenson is an idiot because he chose and kept DeathRay as a mentor– and as SD said, the execution gets shabbier the further it gets from the source.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 11:54 am
@Kevin,
If he’s moving closer to be near his pal, he is also moving closer to the fabulous Sheila Polk, who’s definately got his number — and hopefully, she can soon be able to “provide” him with a number — like James’ inmate number. And hopefully, it will be in time for the two “best buddies” to spend some of the time together. Although, I’m afraid that living under such close proximity day after day under such pressure, JAR would most certainly eventually show his TRUE colors, and what he REALLY thought of Sean, just like he did at all his events and seminars — he who loves only the so-called beautiful, in his eyes, and the fit and healthy looking. For anyone and everyone else, he only has loathing and disgust, whether to their face or in private. Bring on the REAL James Arthur Ray!
[Reply]
Switching gears slightly, it just occurred to me that, if Ray had been kept in custody when he was arrested, he’d probably be out by now.
At the time, I was irritated that he got out on bail, but now I’m glad he has to go in and serve the two years, or most of it, anyhow.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 5:59 am
@Hippo,
So am I glad–and I bet DeathRay is kicking himself right now, unless he’s saving the kicking for ‘Dr’ Sean when he makes his pilgrimage to visit the master in his enforced retreat– for not having the cunning and foresight to do his time easy in the first place. (pleading guilty upfront might have got him even more of a break)
[Reply]
So they’ve filed an appeal for the broke psychopath. Oh, I SO hope he gets retried and gets a REAL judge, and gets a REAL sentence! As written above — Life Sentence for the bastard!
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/4f635568f7fb42a98905f499183b2f8f/AZ–Sweat-Lodge-Deaths
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsYAV/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/12-05-2011%20NOTICE-APPEAL.pdf
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
@Bonnie,
Well, his defence team seem confident that there are still some ill-gotten gains stashed somewhere to be sucked dry.
So much for his tearful repentance–it doesn’t extend to actually paying his debt to society for his misdeeds.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
@Bonnie,
Yup, give the maggot another trial. Polk could probably do it in her sleep by now and the defense will still have no answers, and have already shot their with the toxins bullshit. All they’ll have left is more stalling tactics. The state could finally call that doctor bloke who did the 2008 sweat lodge and found it life threatening – i.e Ray was forewarned. (Can’t remember his name, but they screwed up and failed to get him on the witness list in time.)
I can’t imagine Death Ray sitting silently for another six or eight months listening to Polk demolishing his fakery and bastardry. Plus he stated at the sentencing that he never heard any cries of distress. Was he lying, or would he like to repeat that from the dock?
I bet all his supporters would really be thrilled about getting media attention all over again too – Alessandro, Proctor and Dr Yoda. Been great for them so far hasn’t it…ha ha.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
December 10th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
@Yakaru,
Of course, where Jimbo is sitting now, sitting through another 6 or 8 months of listening to Polk would be safer than getting through the day in the pokey. Wonder if he had made any new “friends” yet. (Sorry James…we can’t hear any cries of distress.)
[Reply]
SD Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
@Bonnie ::
Oh — My — God
[Reply]
Waaaa … I can’t afford to live on my own and have moved in with my parents. Waaaa … my parents are older and need me to care for them.
Waaaa … I have enough money to file an appeal and have a younger brother who is perfectly capable of caring for, “our parents.”
Still, completely incapable of accountability after four deaths and numerous injuries to others.
One would hope the appeals process is very slow in AZ.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 6th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
@Bethann,
And expensive.
[Reply]
Newly updated news article from Felicia Fonseca above:
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/4f635568f7fb42a98905f499183b2f8f/AZ–Sweat-Lodge-Deaths
[Reply]
He will never admit he did the wrong by anyone even if he was exposed for paying his own debts out of other peoples money because that sort of repentance does not belong in a psychopaths vernacular. Show me one who does not act in this way.
[Reply]
Well…looks like an appeal is being filed…[[sarcasm]]shocking![[/sarcasm]]
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/12-05-2011%20NOTICE-APPEAL.pdf
[Reply]
Isn’t the filing of an appeal pretty standard procedure?
I think that Ray’s lawyers might be considered negligent if they DIDN’T file an appeal.
I wonder what would happen if he was granted a new trial? By the time this all occurs, Ray will probably have served his two years. Would the prosecutor be willing to try him again?
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
@Hippo,
His lawyers act on his instructions only, they don’t make the decision to appeal–he does.
They aren’t going to turn down more lucrative paydays worrying about the merits of appealing and whether he will be out before the re-trial???? happens.
Who knows, they might get lucky with even more of a ramen-head on the bench next time and get the bastard exonerated with a clean sheet.
Pigs might fly, unicorns do fly, and _cartman’s_ universal mine does work in exceedingly strange ways.
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@Hippo,
I think we have ego and self-serving greed on both sides.
The attorney’s, as long as the money flows, will “advise their client.” JAR could easily tell them he does not want to appeal.
It’s my understanding the only time an appeal is automatic is in a death penalty case.
JAR, the Golden Child, is passive/aggressive. Note how he attempts to proseltyize and hold power over others through both words and intimidation, yet succumbs to the suggestions of his attorney’s.
On the other hand … if he was capable, and isn’t, of critical thinking, the reasonable option would be to admit an error in judgment, and seek a plea deal. The end result would be little media attention and the possibility of parole.
As to a second trial, I think it more than likely Sheila Polk would proceed. The PT has leverage, the DT, nada.
[Reply]
whatthewhat Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@Hippo, I have only ever tried civil cases (and never on the defense side) but I would assume that it would be the same for criminal or civil defense in terms of the attorneys’ professional responsibility….The defense attorneys would be obligated to file post-trial motions (attempting to get the verdict set aside, etc). It’s pretty much done as routine and most people that I’ve talked to would consider it malpractice (generally) to not file the post trial motions on the defendant’s behalf. But once the sentence is handed down and all post trial motions are ruled on, the trial attorneys have fulfilled their obligation.
They don’t need to appeal on the defendant’s behalf. If they chose not to handle his appeal, their total obligation comes down to advising him that he has a limited amount of time to appeal and recommend that he consult an attorney (and giving him/his new attorney) whatever documentation is needed to file the appeal. They can elect to continue representing him on appeal (and clearly did) but they could turn him down and refer him to someone else if they want. They are staying with this guy because they chose to.
If he couldn’t pay his legal fees they wouldn’t be doing it.
[Reply]
There’s GOT to be something wrong when former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich receives a sentence of 14 years in federal prison for felony corruption convictions — not that he didn’t deserve it.
Keep on it, Salty! — things have just GOT to change!!
[Reply]
A bit more on Ray’s appeal:
Polk isn’t worried:
“There were several rulings against the state that I disagreed with and look forward to raising on appeal,” she said.
Ray has moved again:
According to corrections department records, he now resides at the Lewis prison complex south of Buckeye.
And the US lacks a justice system:
His sentence is set to expire in October 2013 but his earliest possible release date to community supervision is listed as April 2013. The earlier date is the result of 2010 efforts by the Legislature and the department to alleviate prison overcrowding and budget shortfalls through the early release of non-dangerous offenders.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=100825
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@Yakaru,
Same thing is happening here–overcrowding means nasties hit the street too early.
Too cheap to do what the Victorians did and shove them all on old ship hulks moored mid-river–or transport them off to OZ or somewhere.
Progress!
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
@Yakaru, Is he considered a “non-dangerous” offender? Geez. I remember the judge in the MJ trial saying that Dr. Murray was dangerous because he was a doctor and people trusted him. So because JAR is not a doctor , people shouldn’t have trusted him? I think he’s more dangerous because he doesn’t have a medical association or a state board watching over him. Neither Manson nor Jim Jones actually killed anyone (as far as we know) but they were very adept at getting others to do it. Just because he didn’t hold a gun in his hand that doesn’t mean he’s not dangerous. Sociopaths are more dangerous because of their charm. And what they do they do with words, not actual deeds. I hope all the people he cheated are standing at the prison with their papers to serve him for their losses. As he walks past each of them they can hand him their subpoenas. Kind of like an American version of a stoning, but with paper and legal documents. And then he’ll have to go to many different cases to defend himself for cheating all those people. I just wonder about a justice system that does not allow you to bring in other relevant factors because it could prejudice the jury. I wonder how the jury feels now knowing that they convicted him on a lesser charge? Now that they know the rest of the story?
[Reply]
Well, at least those friggin’ tweets have apparently stopped. For now, anyway. Last one was November 11. http://twitter.com/jamesaray
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
No-one left to change the batteries.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
Does Ray have access to the internet where he is?
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Hippo,
Someone here got an answer to another jail query on Prison.com–can’t remember who, but that might be an avenue of enquiry.
The mind boggles–if he has net access (maybe restricted) he could keep his snake-oil wagon on the road with or without not-Dr Sean as a proxy/successor.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
@stoic,
Boom:
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1039.html
Thanks to @torrey for posting all that. This 2010 post confirms Arizona inmates are cut off from the Internet despite ACLU complaints:
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-462766.html
I think the UN declared Internet access a basic human right a month or two ago, though, so maybe that will change.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
@Lanna,
Thanks Lanna, you are a veritable mine of arcane info.
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
@stoic,
Thanks! I think maybe “veritable mine of arcane info” was what was meant the time I was called a “well of infinite sadness” or “filled with a void of melancholic disappointment” or some such thing.
Seriously, I’m just using Google. Well, and PubMed, the FDA and the Guardian, where I cruise around every single day. Give me a tough one that requires me to go to the university library for a LexisNexis search!
stoic Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 3:58 am
@Lanna,
I was thinking that between your veritable mine and _cartman’s_ mysterious univeral mine you might just have the situation covered.
Switching gears slightly, I was watching Nancy Grace on Friday. I know that many people don’t like her, but I have a simple mind and I think she’s awesome.
In her usual bombastic fashion, she opens the program with, “Bombshell tonight! Self-help guru murdered in Arizona!”
And for a moment, I thought it was James Ray.
It was not–but I almost fell out of my chair. Oddly, the actual murder case is three years old–a self-help speaker was stabbed and shot by his girlfriend. This was a domestic dispute, nothing to do with the kind of work he did.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Hippo,
Maybe it’s a premonition… well, one can only hope.
(and anyone other than JAR, I could almost hold out hope for some change — but not with this guy).
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
@Hippo, I like Nancy Grace too..She asks the possible/probable perps the questions that no one else will and she doesn’t buy their BS answers.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@Hippo,
Don’t give up hope, Hippo, I’m not.
Even crims understand that stone walls do not necessarily a prison make and spend their time crafting intricate shivs from toothbrushes and such to shaft those who cross them once too often.
One of my favourite movies was Shawshank Redemption–such cunning and patience shown by the ‘hero’–who I am sure did actually do the deed he was nicked for originally–but maybe I am remembering it wrong.
And Morgan Freeman as the Moor in the otherwise hilarious Robin Hood–classic.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 2:04 am
@stoic,
I’m pretty sure that Tim Robbins was innocent. Without going back and watching the movie again, he was convicted of murdering his wife, but he didn’t do it.
That’s what made his eventual escape and revenge so sweet. He was unfairly convicted and unfairly treated.
[Reply]
_cartman_ Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 10:32 am
@Hippo,
That’s write [[cutting edge nouveau]]! “Elvis” [[part of the new batch of prisoners]] spoke [[while doing a stint in another prison]] to the person who bragged about killing Robbin’s wife [[and lover]], and was willing to testify [[what his former cell mate confessed]] to get Robbins a new trial. So the warden [[who was using Robbins to launder his ill gotten gains]], had “Elvis” shot dead for trying to “escape”.
I always cry when they mention the limited amount of money the warden was able to bring in! Then I remember that ~$300K back in the 1900′s is worth 4 trillion [[using IM hypertheticals]] dollars today [[like you could buy a house back then for like $3 or something...$4 if you wanted a mansion]], and that makes me happy again.
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
@_cartman_,
Great film! I’m not much of a film buff but I do remember going to the flicks (old school) for that one.
It was another trying time in my chequered history, which might be why I remember it so well (do I, though?)–or maybe its the alzheimers kicking in.
Elvis, Kentucky Rain, another classic I used to love until I found a Utube version–you’d need a heart of stone not to laugh.
That old-tyme religion, gets me every time.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
@Hippo ::
Nancy Grace is the worst … the fucking worst. Her perpetual exploitation of the lost white girl scenario is beyond disgusting.
She should have me on … I gots a little non-BS for her {not really … cause I’d rather sit in on an EST revival with The Werner himself}.
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
@SD,
NG qualifies as a baiting, screeching harpie whose only function is to arouse her audience into a feeding frenzy.
Once inflamed they become the, “class bully’s,” to anyone who has an opposing view.
Parading her, “program,” as a public service and a, “cause for the victims,” is dishonest.
NG’s only concern are for her ratings, which translates to income.
[Reply]
Solar Flare Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 12:17 am
@Bethann, Agreed! She criticized Casey for making money off her tragedy, but that’s exactly what NG was doing! Grrrrrrr!
Here’s a video where Elizabeth Smart stands up to Nancy Grace:
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 10:59 am
@Solar Flare,
Perfect example of a young woman who refused to be, “bullied.” :)
(BTW, almost all of the cases NG prosecuted were overturned. She has a loose relationship with the truth, so loose it’s barely recognizable. I find any claims NG makes as to being a victim specious.)
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 9:51 am
@SD,
Point taken. However, as a former battered wife, her approach still has appeal for me.
I know that these cases she covers are not funny, but she makes me laugh sometimes. Recently, she was covering the case of two Americans, Gary Giordano and Robyn Gardner, who went to Aruba together and Robyn disappeared. Gary probably murdered her, and Nancy was all over the story.
Nancy wanted her producer to put on the screen a photo of Gary’s home in Maryland, but the producer kept putting up a picture of Gary wearing a deer mask. Nancy went ballistic.
In spite of the horrific tragedy, this was as funny as anything George Carlin, Eddie Izzard or Bill Hicks has ever done.
As I said, I have a simple mind.
[Reply]
Prosecutors File Cross Appeal in Sweat Lodge Case
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/justice/Sweat-Lodge-Deaths-12-12-2011
YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Go Sheila Polk!!!!
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
Yayyyyy SHIELA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Reply]
Kudos to Sheila!!!
A woman with tenacity and worthy of admiration.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Prosecutors seek longer prison term for James Arthur Ray
http://rock947.com/news/articles/2011/dec/13/prosecutors-seek-longer-prison-term-for-james-arthur-ray
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 6:25 am
@Bonnie,
team Sheila!
You go girl!
Put that scum where he belongs for the longest possible time.
Gotta remember the probabilities– with the shivs and all.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
@Bonnie, Good for Ms Polk!! She didn’t like the way the prosecution or the case was treated by the judge anymore than we did..
[Reply]
Cat Reply:
December 15th, 2011 at 8:29 am
@Bonnie,
that would be perfect justice … for the whining scumbag, clearly with NO remorse, to be wasting yet more time/energy, utterly still determined to harm the families (and anyone else he can) by making it clear he has no remorse/takes no responsibility and is even trying to get the money back?!… with Shiela Polk at the helm, her having seen what the judge did, there feels like there’s real hope/confidence. Brilliant, Ms Polk! Hope jar’s shut up at last, that his pursuance of such obviously wrong absolution truly backfires in much more jail time.
[Reply]
This is for Salty, lol…. The secret of the secret – now revealed!!!
[Reply]
stoic Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
@Solar Flare,
Old news, solar flare. Show us a clip of the big blue genie instead–the best bit, for me in the Seekrit–shame it was DeathRay that shared billing in that frame.
That genie though, he works for me.
Mills and Boon, eat your heart out.
[Reply]
Ray claims indigence as state cross-appeals
http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=45265
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Bonnie,
Ahh … another tactic to avoid payment of monies he owes to the victims as well as court costs approximating $80K for both.
As if he hasn’t stashed monies outside the US.
[Reply]
Bonnie Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
@Bethann,
The worst of it is, Thomas Kelly is listed as a legal aid available for that district. I wonder how that works. Geez.
And
“As if he hasn’t stashed monies outside the US”
You got that right! No two ways about it. He may be stupid, but he’s not stupid!
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
@Bonnie,
I’m cringing, yet thought this might be the circumstance with Kelly.
I recall reading the DT believed the victims were not entitled to any more monies due to the insurance settlements.
I’m pleased Sheila Polk has taken a continal pro-active approach with this case.
[Reply]
Oh, Good Goddess. Peter Wink, who is Kevin True-dough’s marketing VP, just posted this on Facebook: “Just got off the phone w/James Arthur Ray’s brother. James is doing well. Also heard from Earlene Vining this morning and Ed Foreman is rocking! Some early Christmas gifts!”
Now, I have no idea who Earlene and Ed are, but I did respond to the bit about Ray, writing:
“Meanwhile, this Christmas — as last Christmas, and the one before, and every Christmas from now on — the families of Colleen Conaway, James Shore, Kirby Brown, and Liz Neuman will face the holidays without their loved ones, thanks to James Arthur ‘Death’ Ray. I guess ‘gifts’ are in the eye of the beholder.”
I reckon we can expect some more public statements from True-dough about how poor James has been oppressed, repressed, and suppressed by the big bad forces that are trying to destroy the selfish-help industry. I’d mosey on over to the KT Radio Network and take a look, but I have to go fix dinner. Maybe later.
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
OK. Back for a moment… I briefly checked in on the KT Radio Network site and haven’t seen any recent mentions of JAR, but there is a precedent: this vid from last June (start at about 36:00):
Other links to KT shows that mention JAR:
http://www.ktradionetwork.com/tag/james-arthur-ray/
Anyway, I’m signing off for now; maybe the night shift can take over. Later!
[Reply]
Wondering Why Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
OMG..TruDough is calling it a “Tragic Accident” and saying that the “government” was just going after Ray on a whim..
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 15th, 2011 at 11:10 am
@Wondering Why, Yes, that has pretty much been True-dough’s stance since he first started publicly speaking out about James Ray. Of course, the big bad government has also been repressing KT for years as well, so he and JAR are brothers-in-arms. (Or harms.)
http://tinyurl.com/78cxqn4
[Reply]
Thom Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
@Cosmic Connie, Speaking of Peter Wink, who once worked for Joe Vitale, and which apparently did not work out (surprise):
http://peterwink.com/page3.html
Wink really blows his own horn, and he has certainly followed around like a puppy a “who’s who” of people that might otherwise be roasted here.
Despite the extravagant claims and frenetic “hob knobbing,” he just sounds insecure, all over the map, and kind of lost. That’s the perfect combination for ending up as someone else’s fall guy.
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 15th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@Thom, Oh, yes, I’m well aware of Peter’s past association with Joe Vitale (Peter himself told me he never worked *for* Joe, but *with* him). The two “split up” very shortly after Joe’s disastrous trip to Russia in September of 2009. Shortly after the split I contacted Peter via email to get details. We ended up talking on the phone for hours in December of 2009. But Peter wanted to focus on the self-help industry and the positive as well as the negative aspects of the industry rather than on gossip. I thought, what the heck, why not. I thought it would be something different for me. I eventually turned our conversations into a series of blog posts, published in April and May of 2010. You can Google “Peter Wink Whirled Musings” to find them if you are interested.
Some people told me my posts were a waste of time and that I was just being “played.” But I don’t think it was time wasted, and if I was being played it really didn’t work out so well for the player. Believe it or not, I truly wanted to try to present “the other side” in as neutral a manner as possible for me. I think the posts are useful as much for what they don’t say as for what they do say. I won’t go so far as to claim that they were strategic, at least not on my part. (Let me just note that I end up running my blog the way I want to, despite hearty encouragement from others to run it another way.)
Getting back to the focus of Salty’s thread here, James Ray: At the time I was speaking and corresponding with Peter in 2009 (and in 2010, in the conversations on my blog), he said he really did not know much about the James Ray case and wanted to withhold judgment until he knew more. That was over a year before True-dough started mouthing off about the case.
Of course, that was then and this is now. I have not spoken to Peter recently, but in my opinion, his Facebook posts are strategic for the most part, and generally in the service of promoting some of True-dough’s agendas. That’s why I ventured a guess that his mention of speaking with JAR’s brother was a harbinger of yet more True-dough yammering about poor James and the evil forces who want to shut down the self-help industry. I wouldn’t even be surprised if True-dough offered some of the resources from his own defense fund to help JAR, but I may be stretching there. It’s only speculation on my part.
[Reply]
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