47 Comments »

Colleen's sister said:
WOW, what can one say after listening to Debbie Mercer’s testimony? This woman will clearly be traumatized for the rest of her life. She has more courage, honor and integrity than JAR can ever HOPE to possess! God Bless Her!
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@Colleen’s sister,
Congrats to Debbie for her testimony!
I have one objection though–trauma is definitely possible to heal from. No psychological trauma (except perhaps brain injury) need be for life. I hope Debbie all the best in healing from this.
  +1
[Reply]

Kalista7 Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
@Duff, Yes, you’re right. EMDR is excellent for this type of psychological trauma, and of course, prayers.
http://www.emdr.com/index.htm
  -1
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
@Kalista7,
I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic here, so I don’t know how to respond. EMDR was discovered spontaneously by a lady walking in a park. WTF?
There have never been any clinical trials. I’m pretty sure it’s a scam. I tried it about ten years ago with no success.
I think the people who like it are being fooled by the placebo effect.
Again, I don’t know if this post was serious. Your sarcasm may have gone over my head.
  0
[Reply]

Kalista7 Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
@Hippo, I would hope by now, if you’ve seen any of my posts, that I am NOT sarcastic in my posts.
FYI, I have used EMDR for a very traumatic event that happened to me, and it helped me TREMENDOUSLY. A lot has developed with EMDR in 10 years, and I was lucky enough to find a psychologist who is extremely qualified in EMDR. I don’t know who discovered it and/or where you got your information, but I WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP. Chill out.
  -3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
@Kalista7,
If it helps you, then that’s great. As a person who has fallen for more than my share of scams, I think it should be looked at closely.
I don’t need to chill out, I wasn’t attacking you.
  0

Kalista7 Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
@Hippo, That’s ok, just sounded like it. Actually 2 psychologists with over 20 years in practice recommended EMDR for me. I did a lot of research ahead of time, and I drove over 1 hr. for sessions, but it was worth it.
EMDR therapy sessions are probably like night and day since you tried it. They use a special light bar now (about 6 ft. away from the client) to guide the eyes, and it’s gotten quite scientific. The key is finding someone who is experienced and skilled at it. I wouldn’t recommend a beginner. It’s truly changed my life. I just wish healing for everyone involved in this tragedy, and hope I can help in any little way possible.
  0

Hippo Reply:
April 13th, 2011 at 7:53 am
@Kalista7,
The reason this case hits me so hard is because I identify so closely with the victims. I never heard of James Ray, but, years ago, I would have been the kind of person who would have been interested in attending his seminars.
If falling for scams was an Olympic event, I think I could have won a Bronze Medal at some point.
Now, however, I am extremely cautious about trying ANYTHING. When you mentioned EMDR, I was fearful that you were being taken advantage of.
I was surprised that you snapped at me.
  0

Kalista7 Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
Here’s an article from this evening:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/04/12/20110412arizona-sweat-lodge-trial-mistrial-considered.html
  0
[Reply]

Aaron Reply:
April 29th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Does anyone know if another site other than cnn is broadcasting the ray trial live? thanks.
  0
[Reply]

Aly Reply:
April 29th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@Aaron,
If I did, I would love to tell you. I’m wondering myself! I’m sure, we are only getting only about an hour of real trial today. They’re so busy butting in with things that are in the future. Just advertizing and interviews, nothing to do with James Ray.
  0
[Reply]

Aaron Reply:
April 29th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Thanks. Do you know if anyone shows a replay since we can’t see the cross of Diskin?
  0
[Reply]

Aly Reply:
April 29th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Aaron,
Some time they play it on Monday, since there isn’t court that day.
  0
[Reply]

Aaron Reply:
April 29th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Thanks Aly. Does CNN show it on Mon or only on Tru TV?
  0

Aly Reply:
April 29th, 2011 at 10:57 pm
@Aly,
Aaron Tru Tv is the only one we get. They say that they and CNN are sister channels. I know Tru Tv isn’t covering very well at all. Hardly anything yesterday or today.
I don’t care at all for Tru Tv ans after this trial is over I’m done with it.
  0

Aaron Reply:
May 4th, 2011 at 11:13 am
I heard that two jurors were dismissed but not sure if this is just a rumor. Does anyone know if there is any validity to this? If so, what was the reason for dismissal?
  0

Anne Reply:
May 4th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
@Aaron, Yes, two jurors were dismissed today. One due to illness, and, if I heard correctly, the other due to the illness of a family member.
  0
[Reply]
# 11 April 2011 at 4:32 pm

wondering why said:
Hope your feeling better Salty..Missed you..
  +6
[Reply]
# 11 April 2011 at 8:08 pm

Shocked said:
This is insane. James Ray must have been delusional to think this was all ok and perfectly normal. What is criminal negligence if its not this?
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 11 April 2011 at 8:29 pm

Clark said:
I know this is a bit OT, but I remember a story Robbins once told about a guy who fell down some pole they were trying to climb and almost died as a result. Robbins story includes, of course, the part where everybody calls him irresponsible and he still manages to reanimate the guy although the doctors say it’s to late, yadayada.
Obviously, I didn’t believe the miraculous reanimation bit, but has anybody else got some info on this thing? I believe it was on one of the old Powertalk tapes, and his inability to accept that he was indeed acting irresponsibly strikes me as somewhat similar to JAR’s behavior.
  0
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
@Clark,
I remember that story too from Robbins. At least in this case Robbins actually saw that there was a problem and attempted to address it. But keep in mind that Robbins spins every story he tells to make himself look good.
That said, I think Robbins’ workshops are dangerous in and of themselves–not so much physically (perhaps at worst minor burns from firewalking), but psychologically.
  +2
[Reply]
# 12 April 2011 at 2:16 am

kate said:
OH NO…..sounds like this motion for mistrial might work for the defense and this lowlife killer, arrogant, sociopathic thug will walk away.
  0
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 10:17 am
@kate,
If the DT should somehow do their fancy dancing and get James out of this one, he hasn’t really gotten away with anything. Just about everything that can be out there is out there now. Life has a funny way of turning on a dime. Look at what happened to James’s life after SW 2009. He hasn’t learned anything. He sits there like he is in the principal’s office just biding his time until he is out and can resume doing what he did before. However, he has a habit of making messes and not cleaning them up. This won’t be behind him until he has cleaned it up.
Can you spot the guilty dog?
http://www.maniacworld.com/which-is-the-guilty-dog.html
Hint: the guilty dog always runs away. (Can you say San Diego and Sedona, boys and girls?)
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Omikse Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 11:27 am
@White Rabbit, The lodge, as understand it, was built the way Ray wanted it. And it was built as large as Ray wanted it. He saw the lodge, and approved it by getting into it and allowing others to enter it also. Angel Valley employees and volunteers built, and delivered what Ray contracted for, a lodge the way he wanted.If there is/was an issue with what they built, per Ray’s instruction, Ray was in charge at that point, and he continued on with his program. Reality is Ray had no working knowledge of what he had requested, nor did he have working knowledge of a sweat lodge. He did not prepare others for what was about to happen. Ray was in control, Ray ran that lodge his way. The results are clearly Ray’s.
  +5
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
@Omikse,
I recall early on, perhaps Melinda Martin in an interview or somewhere else, that there was a rather heated argument by phone with the Hamiltons over the construction of the sweat lodge. But, James pushed on and got his way. So the defense has no right to point to Angel Valley as far as the construction goes. It was according to James’s directions.
And yes, James ran the lodge, gave directions to the participants, and controlled the coming and going. To disregard people telling him that others were in trouble or to close the door before someone could get out was inexcuseable.
Here, James the bodybuilder and life-long weight lifter, was the strongest person in the lodge. Even if he was the first one out the door, as the leader he should have checked that everyone else got out. To just sit in a chair letting everyone else “have their own experience” and not be concerned about the effects they were experiencing is not the sign of a leader. To just shrug when asked to open the back of the lodge to get others out or to call an ambulance is less than human. A person with real feelings would have shot spring-loaded from that chair to help.
  +6
[Reply]

Omikse Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@White Rabbit,…I agree with you. Ray had the lodge built the way he wanted. Was it too big? Native people will say it was too big. Should tarps be used? Native people will tell you no, the lodge needs to breathe and the steam needs to dissipate. Did Ray do too many rounds? Native people will tell you most lodges do only 4. Did Ray use too many stones? Native people will tell you that 80-100 stones is excessive, dangerously so. Ray told them when he was asked, what to do if a bathroom break was needed, he said to “go where you are” inside the lodge. Native people will tell you that you never use the lodge for a bathroom. And, BTW, Ray had told the participants before they entered the lodge to be respectful, it was like a church. Does Ray, upon visiting a church ‘go where he is’ when in need of a bathroom? I guess Ray was pretending to know things he clearly did not know.
  +4
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@Omikse,
You didn’t want to sit in the front pews of his daddy’s church. They all had pee stains on the cushions.
  +4

Omikse Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
White Rabbit…I was going to say that, but I am so glad that you did!! What a twisted individual Ray is, I bet he needs a corkscrew to take his pants off.
  +2

White Rabbit Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
@Omikse,
We’re starting to be like an old married couple…finishing each other’s sentences. :-)
  +3

Omikse Reply:
April 13th, 2011 at 5:14 am
@Omikse, ..It’s simply the ‘old-ladies-on-the-porch-syndrome’, now,..pass that lemonade over this way.
  +1

Omikse Reply:
April 13th, 2011 at 9:01 am
White Rabbit…the reality is that the sweat lodge Angel Valley built, according to instructions from Ray, that lodge didn’t kill anyone. Ray attempting to do something he had no training in, and no knowledge of…that is what killed 3 people. Ray being arrogant in not wanting his lodge to be a ‘whimpy lodge’, killed 3 people. Ray being willfully ignorant killed 3 people.
  +2

White Rabbit Reply:
April 13th, 2011 at 9:51 am
@Omikse,
What the defense cannot get around, and James can never run far enough away from, is the FACT that he didn’t go “three for three”. What was that again? (Play twenty seven million JAR interviews…Salty made a wonderful montage somewhere)
Thoughts….feelings….and ACTIONS.
When all hell was breaking loose, people who had no training were actively using their common sense and human compassion to care for those around them. They were doing their best to take ACTION.
Their thoughts: Holy shit! Look at his mess. What can I do?
Their feelings: Wanting to allieviate the suffering of their fellow human beings.
Their actions: Drag unconscious people from the sweat lodge; hose them down to cool them off; when conscious give them electrolytes; if not conscious, stay with them to help them come around; stick a burned arm in ice water; do CPR on those not breathing; call 911.
Where was James? Sitting in a chair in the shade. It’s not like there was a dearth of things to do. When Debbie Mercer asked if she could call an ambulance….he shrugged. He SHRUGGED ??!!??!!?? Mister 3 for 3 shrugged?
But another of his favorite sayings was: Pay attention or pay with pain.
If he was paying attention, instead of blowing off the people trying to bring various situations to his awareness, instead of trying to make Spiritual Warrior a “spiritual triathalon”, it never would have had the end result that it had.
All arguments of lodge construction, killer bees, fameframes, ants or the lack thereof, or anything else the defense can come up with aside…it all boils down to the FACT that when things happened, James did not take any action. None. People were having their own experience, don’t bother them.
So now James is having his own experience. How’s that one working for you, James?
  +3

Injun Samurai Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
@kate,
The actual Motion to Dismiss is worth seeing and reading:
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsYAV/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/04-11-2011%20MOTION%20-%20MOTION.pdf
It includes such great statements as: “Under clearly established law, a mistrial must be granted, and retrial barred.”
It is an eloquent and convincing piece of persuasive rhetoric, so convincing with it’s non sequitars and slippery slopes that if I were on the JR team, I’d be chilling the champagne tonight…
In essence, the Defense’s entire position has throughout the trial been – “We can’t win on the facts, but we will win on procedure…”
In a related issue, the defense billed the state $31k last time they caught them in a mistake. The fee was charged to conduct a 2 hour witness interview. Thirty One thousand dollars to do a 2 hour interview. Their justification? It took them a combined team effort of nearly 90 hours to conduct that 2 hour witness interview…
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsYAV/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/01-19-2011%20STATEMENT%20OF%20COSTS.pdf
Their entire position throughout this case has been to: 1. Attack the witnesses. 2. Overwhelm the State Payroled Prosecution with a 5 person full time legal team searching and filing on every feasible technicality…
Throughout the trial, James has sat smug and cavalier. No person whose fate rests in the hands of any jury can be so smug. Whether you know you’re guilty or innocent, when a jury decides your fate, it’s stressful.
His council has ‘Promised Him’ & ‘Guaranteed Him’ that this trial will never reach a verdict by jury…
It’s their entire strategy to win this case without a verdict: Their tactic is to – To irritate, belittle, annoy, and undermine the understaffed and underfunded prosecution until they make small material mistakes. They lawyers in court are the figureheads, there’s a whole team beating the technicalities into submission…
I played hockey in college, and my coach used to constantly tell us: “Get them angry but don’t get penalties, make them lose their tempers, and they will make mistakes.”
If you’ve been watching the trial, you’ve seen how offensive the defense has been. Insulting the witnesses, the prosecution, even attacking the Judges understanding of constitutional law.
It’s sad to watch a legal team whose entire strategy is no better than c-level hockey players trying to pick fights and then win off the penalties the other team gets…
There is been no doubt in my mind that this is exactly the strategy of the defense. Nothing they have done thus far has had any bearing on the actual evidence, it’s all just been efforts to offend, irritate, and get the whole courtroom off balance…
It’s a shame to see that it’s so effective.
It’s even sadder to see that the prosecution has stepped into the trap.
End Note: If you look at the 16 months worth of correspondence between Truc and Shiela, you can see that this strategy of irritation and offense has been the Defense hallmark long before they ever entered the courtroom… For example, in one instance Truc requests more information on a 3 page long list of items and then finishes the request by saying : (basically) “The law requires you to provide clarification and details for all these items, please do so promptly so I know what to file in my objections to them.”
They have been badgering, belittling and overwhelming the prosecution for 16 months with huge long lists of ‘Legally Required’ documentation in the hopes that the prosecution would miss one item among the hundreds upon hundreds of requests…
Unfortunately for justice, it’s working…
Now, even without a mistrial, they have grounds for appeal, and grounds to overturn the ruling… Nomatter what Judge Darrow decides, this is massive coup for the defense…
Sadly, it has almost nothing to do with the actual case or evidence, it’s just a oblique procedural technicality…
requests asking for more information
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@Injun Samurai ::
That’s kinda right {in that the defense team are clearly trying to prevent the case getting to the jury} :: and kinda wrong.
It very much matters how Judge Darrow rules. “Abuse of discretion” :: which will be the standard on appeal for any of the procedural issues raised thus far :: is an all but insurmountable standard.
Trial judges can do whatever the fuck they want {procedurally}.
All this talk about “setting it up for appeal” is mostly TV talk. If you lose a jury trial … you are in a very bad way. It takes luck and magic to get a reversal … even if it turns out that the DNA says you didn’t do it.
If you play procedure games and lose :: then you have likely lost forever.
[Reply]

Injun Samurai Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
@SD,
Thanks Salty, you always calm me right down and help me focus my outrage…
My legal mind is all fucked up right now from the Bernanke v. Pittman fiasco…
I have to remind myself, James Ray is no Ben Bernanke… Sheila Polk isn’t going to just drop dead and Team Obama isn’t going to step in and make new laws to get a piss-ant like James off the hook…
And after rereading the motion, I now see that it’s filled with justifiable discrepancies that Darrow can sink his teeth into and get this trial back on track…
Like – “…hazardous levels of indoor air temperature and humidity” that’s not really an exonerating Brady omission {a signed confession of guilt from someone other than the accused is the Brady precedent – isn’t it?}
In fact, since the report supports the Prosecution’s case, and they voluntarily decided to omit it, there really isn’t even a disclosure issue…
The whole motion for mistrial is just more irritating tactics from an irritating team…
In the motion, Truc Do intentional misquotes, quotes out of context, and misrepresents the content of Haddow’s report to make it appear exonerating…
But I think you’re right, Judge Darrow is too savvy to fall for this, and this isn’t even going to be close to setting up an “Abuse of Discretion” appeal…
Thanks for helping me get my head around it…
Bernanke can walk, that’s fine – no one actually cares about the proletariat anymore anyways {not even the proletariat}…
But we do demand a sacrifice to our cult of personality every now and then, and right now, James Ray seems the perfect man for the job…
  +4
[Reply]
# 12 April 2011 at 9:26 am

bohica said:
“It’s a good day to die!” – sez JAR
“It’s a good day to live.” – sez real debbie as someone fell into the pit and had flesh peeling off his arm.
way to go real debbie.
the dream team can suck it.
  +4
[Reply]
# 12 April 2011 at 11:03 am

Paul said:
If he gets his mistrial it would be a gross miscarriage of justice.
The defence are shite to be honest. In effect the evidence the state “suppressed” would show that shit for brains Jamie boyo actually had no clue what the fuck he was doing.
I don’t know if you guys have seen the video below but it comments on JAR’s version of a sweat lodge and explains how it should be done. At least these people know what they are talking about.
As one of the people interviews says, if JAR was in any way “spiritual” he would accept the responsibility for what happened.
  +2
[Reply]

Paul Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
Oops the video didn’t embed,
Let’s try a link?
  0
[Reply]
# 12 April 2011 at 12:20 pm

Yakaru said:
I’m still trying to imagine just what “exculpatory evidence” would even look like if such a thing could exist in this case. I can’t come up with anything.
  +2
[Reply]

Chilon~Ephor Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
@Yakaru, A little green man named Kazoo who declares he poisoned the participants with organo-phosphates and then used his wee little flying saucer to erase all evidence…
Ooops, but then Ray would still be criminally guilty of reckless behavior since he didn’t stop the lodge, nevermind…
  +1
[Reply]
# 12 April 2011 at 4:45 pm

Kalista7 said:
@Hippo, Sorry and I understand what you were saying. Tried to reply further up, but couldn’t and I did have another response yesterday. I read your original note in a hurry and it just seemed harsh, thinking I was being sarcastic, which I truly wasn’t. Yes, it’s definitely good to be very cautious! I see you wrote it out of caring and I do appreciate that. I’m still healing and a bit sensitive so forgive me.
  +2
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
April 13th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@Kalista7,
Well, the reason I asked about sarcasm is because so many things seem to go over my head, even more so the older I get. Someone writes sarcastically, then I respond as if they’re serious, and I make a fool of myself.
So now I ask if I am unsure if someone is serious or not. Since we can’t see faces or hear voices, it can be a bit tricky.
Thank you for your kind words.
  +3
[Reply]
# 13 April 2011 at 12:44 pm

Detached Observer said:
After all this info coming out in court, I am still amazed at the deliberate loss of memory, blind eye and deaf ears that Megan Frederickson pretended to have while she was in the lodge. The whole time being next to James Ray.
That interview she had with the detective still is one of the most disturbing things I’ve read in a long time.
  +6
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 2:54 am
@Detached Observer,
She used the phrase “I don’t recall” or “I don’t know” about 60 times all up, and that’s not counting the number of times she answered a “Do you recall…” question with “No”.
In a sane world, she’d be in the dock after the state has finished with Death Ray.
Here’s a link to the interview.
http://tommcfeeley.com/content/Supplement-131-Fredrickson-Megan-transcript-111809-C272.pdf
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
@Yakaru ::
In a sane world she’d have been in the dock for a year already.
[Reply]

Aly Reply:
April 19th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
@SD,
Will she be testifying?
  0
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
April 20th, 2011 at 2:03 am
@Aly,
She used to be on the witness list for the prosecution, but they took her off in February. The defense also doesn’t want to call her. Says a lot that neither Death Ray nor his “Director of Operations” will utter a single word in his (or their) defense during this entire trial.
  0
[Reply]
# 15 April 2011 at 12:01 pm

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