The Last Words
The trial of James Arthur Ray for the manslaughter of Kirby Brown :: James Shore :: and Liz Neuman has been completed and is with the jurors. GloryHallelujah!
All the bullshit money could buy {aka Munger Tolles & Olson} tried to stop it from happening :: but the bullshit lost. I can think of many of reasons why :: but Ms. Polk ruling is the main one.
I think I shall miss editing video of someone I don’t want to get hit by a garbage truck full of rotting cabbages.
This is not a fake robot blog where I say nice things {allegedly}. But I do so love Ms. Polk :: and I doubts I’ll ever regret taking that uncontroversial stand.
Anywayz :: it’s not about me.
Last video :: last tweets … and some very uncomfortable waiting.
– Rebuttal :: there is no reasonable doubt that the victims died of heat stroke. #JamesRay {only fake doubt} – 06-21 16:37:00 –
– Ms. Polk tells the jury core temps are rarely attained in heat stroke cases because of rescue efforts. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:38:20 –
– Circumstantial evidence strongly supports heat stoke :: and the jury can consider both direct and circumstantial evidence. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:39:49 –
– Dr. Paul determined heat stroke on several autopsies where he didn’t have core temps. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:43:25 –
– Mr. Li interrupts Ms. Polk for the second time … must be desperate to hear the sound of his own voice. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:44:43 –
– Ms. Polk corrects Mr. Li’s multiple obvious misstatements regarding Dr. Wagoner and Liz’s “very very cold” skin. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:47:07 –
– Dehydration not required for heat stroke. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:50:13 –
– Third interruption by Luis. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:50:55 –
– Forth objection. Sidebar about Mr. Li not following the basic rules of professionalism. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:52:24 –
– Ms. Polk quotes Dr. Dickson’s :: “hypothetically pigs can fly” :: thanks for forcing that to happen Truc. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:56:06 –
– Certainty not required for conviction. No “reasonable doubts” have been introduced :: just silly doubts. #JamesRay – 06-21 16:58:27 –
– Ms. Polk says the defense’s house of cards is “all jokers” … #JamesRay … ha! good one! – 06-21 16:59:31 –
– Ms. Polk could bring 100′s of different charges against #JamesRay :: Li’s desperate tactics have risked making things much worse for Ray. – 06-21 17:04:53 –
– Dr. Dickson is the only doc in the case who has seen patients exposed to OP’s :: and he thinks the OP argument is clown-stupid. #JamesRay – 06-21 17:09:46 –
– I hope Ms. Polk rebuts the presumption that Mr. Li climbed Mt. McKinley. #JamesRay – 06-21 17:16:27 –
– “copious orifice secretions” :: and you can too! #JamesRay – 06-21 17:17:39 –
– Sheila dissing Dr. Paul :: it’s not hard. #JamesRay – 06-21 17:18:57 –
– The State tested for OP’s the moment they heard about them. The tests were negative … and not that reliable anyway. #JamesRay – 06-21 17:25:09 –
– Docs for S. Ray called Arizona Poison control :: who walked them through ruling out poising. #JamesRay – 06-21 17:28:16 –
– Me thinks the “toxidrome” the docs were considering was of the Jim Jones variety. #JamesRay – 06-21 17:31:17 –
– You can’t test for o-phosphates … so there’s that. #JamesRay {stick with orifice inspection I guess} – 06-21 17:36:51 –
– Ms. Polk talks about how giant charts can still be wrong. #JamesRay – 06-21 17:38:11 –
– Mr. Li’s calendar flipping inadvertently left out the entire investigation. Ooops! #JamesRay – 06-21 17:39:59 –
– no airs for the mouth hole = pinpoint pupils … #JamesRay – 06-21 17:41:50 –
– 15 min recess. Jury will order court provided lunch for deliberations {baked ant :: ant a la mode :: and rat biscuit fondu} #JamesRay – 06-21 17:46:30 –
– No sound … similar to #JamesRay’s brain. – 06-21 18:16:39 –
– I tried to read lips :: I think she said Mr. Li is a lesbian who doesn’t know how to skateboard. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:19:21 –
– Ms. Polk tells the jury they can use past lodges to decide what caused the deaths :: too bad they didn’t really get to hear it. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:21:34 –
– The sand that Rotillo poisoned only effects people in #JamesRay’s lodges. – 06-21 18:23:37 –
– Mr. Li’s fifth objection. Sidebar. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:25:52 –
– The camera focuses in on #JamesRay’s useless orifices while we wait. – 06-21 18:27:53 –
– “This abomination of a sweat lodge ceremony” is what killed people. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:30:56 –
– Retweet of Michele (MicheleInSedona) Polk: I’ve never had to defend to anyone that I’m a working county attorney so I’m going to leave that one alone. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:31:17 –
– The 6th Objection :: Mr. Li sees dead people …. #JamesRay {or maybe he doesn’t see dead people} – 06-21 18:32:09 –
– Ms. Polk continues with her “we don’t have secret meetings in these United States” rebuttal. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:38:19 –
– “Real life not like CSI …” that’s not what the founders intended. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:39:39 –
– It was Ted. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:42:16 –
– Ms. Polk mentions that she never mentioned cults. That was all Mr. Li’s doing … #JamesRay – 06-21 18:43:52 –
– A couple pictures of Dr. Bunn {with #JamesRay and getting her head shaved} … JAR not too happy about it. – 06-21 18:46:31 –
– Ms. Polk recounts Dr. Bunn’s testimony about conditions inside the hellacious faux lodge. It no does sound funz. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:48:13 –
– Dr. Bunn believed that #JamesRay knew better than she did. Turns out he’s just some moron. Thanks @Oprah … – 06-21 18:49:31 –
– “Not once, not ever,” did #JamesRay tell someone to leave because they were struggling {or losing their effing mind} – 06-21 18:51:01 –
– “Nobody does a sweat lodge like you James” :: says Taylor :: licking the feet of a charlatan … #JamesRay walks off for some shade and sits – 06-21 18:52:53 –
– People aren’t breathing … does a “reasonable person” just walk off? #JamesRay – 06-21 18:53:50 –
– Ask yourselves why #JamesRay wasn’t alarmed at the situation? – 06-21 18:54:42 -
– Ms. Polks says it’s not the weapon that determines the homicide :: it’s the perps state of mind. #JamesRay – 06-21 18:57:54 –
– Retweet of Martha Stem (luckygalnj) Dear Liz, the honorable county attorney and public servant Sheila Polk, is kicking #jamesray ass for you! justice is at hand – 06-21 18:59:16 –
– 2 hours after #JamesRay told Dennis M. that he wasn’t going to die :: people were dead. – 06-21 19:00:27 –
– Recklessness is not an accident … it’s recklessness. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:01:27 –
– Heat stoke in a bogus sweat lodge is a “horrific way to die” … especially when it was totally preventable. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:02:47 –
– Would we be here if #JamesRay had been reasonable? #JamesRay – 06-21 19:03:50 –
– You almost died :: high fives! #JamesRay – 06-21 19:04:38 –
– Metaphors confused with reality aren’t metaphors. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:05:35 –
– James Shore drags out Sidney Spencer :: lifeless :: then smashes his head :: the murderer flap closes. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:08:07 –
– Ms. Polk going over all the opportunities #JamesRay had to not be here. But this is energy vibrating reality that he created. – 06-21 19:09:41 –
– James Shore offers solace to Kirby as they both slip into death. #JamesRay {gosh that’s sad stuff} – 06-21 19:11:41 –
– Retweet of J. Cheri (yogicher) What part of “WE NEED HELP OVER HERE” did #JamesRay not understand? – 06-21 19:11:54 –
– Melinda was a new employee :: she didn’t know what to expect. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:13:14 –
– Ms. Martin was horrified :: but #JamesRay was just getting started. – 06-21 19:14:14 –
– Ms. Polk puts the pics of the victims back up :: she reminds the jury that despite Li’s whining … the victims are the whole point. – 06-21 19:15:56 –
– What’s “wrong” is charging $10,000 to recklessly kill people. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:16:38 –
– Ms. Polk done. Great job! Throw a Rocky pose and go have a sandwich. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:18:40 –
– Alternate jurors are selected :: 2,7, and 8 had to listen to Li for no reason. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:20:17 -
– Jury exits for deliberations. Case over. I’ll remind you all once again of the admonition to stay calm {not legally enforceable}. #JamesRay – 06-21 19:27:45 –
>> bleep bloop











I love Sheila Polk! She really does her job so well! She just warms my heart.
I just noticed at 13:50 Luis Li must have written James a note (James had been gulping awfully nervously during Polk’s beautiful discourse).. JAR was glancing down and reading it. Li probably said.. “STOP GULPING YOU IDIOT! AND LOOK INNOCENT! You look GUILTY AS ALL H*LL!”
This is the first I’ve seen that much of JAR in the videos, he’s had his face all smoothed and plumped up with fillers for the TV cameras. (What a piece of work!) All that internet marketing must be paying him nicely … or else he used his defense firm’s payment to pretty up his face.
Is JAR still living in that overpriced and overmortgaged mansion in Beverly Hills? Or did he have to move out of there? He won’t be needing much after this…
WINNER!! ::
+11
[Reply]
AnotherSuccessfulComment! Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:45 am
@ASuccessfulComment!, We are waiting for this verdict across the miles because there is sooooooo many more victims in this SECRET scam than anyone could ever know about and some jerks are still attempting to milk it. What is unbelievable is that the crap that these self appointed gurus come out with to entice people to hand over money to fund their dream houses and lifestyles was ever considered ok let alone lawful. 3 dead is only just scratching the surface. There are so many more people so screwed up, who have lost almost everything because these idiots intimidated people to think its ok to do whatever you want to whoever you want whenever you want and call it VISUALISING.
WINNER!! ::
+14
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:14 am
@AnotherSuccessfulComment!,…These con-men/self-help, “I know what you need”, gurus are like sharks, with my apologies to the sharks. They can smell a ‘needy’ person a mile away, and once they have the scent, they move in for the kill. They are experts in what will motivate people. They use different patter and smooth lines to hook the people searching for fulfillment, meaning, and spirituality in their lives. They tell them general things,but with such a concerned spin, the unknowing person believes this ‘caring’ person really does just want to help them achieve their dreams. Best of all, this guru has so much useful knowledge, and it’s accessible at workshops…for a small fee. Workshops where the herd is cut from the rest of family and friends, where the weak are chastised and embarrassed into doing better. Where the ones who are worthy early on are blessed with “member T-shirts” and are given tasks to perform, like herding the rest of the cattle. The need to please the guru overrides common sense, and the desire to be seen as worthy is the be all and end all. No matter how outlandish the game or activity, you don’t want to disappoint,…you do as you are told, after all it’s for your own good,…yes? You don’t want the ‘holy one’ to feel that they have wasted their time in trying to teach you the secrets of the Universe, even though you have paid for the privilege of being there. And, by virtue of being viewed as ‘”worthy”, you almost come away from that workshop with what you were told you needed to be successful, happy, and an advanced person. But…you must have missed something, the picture isn’t quite clear…YOU failed. You didn’t get “it”. That’s alright, don’t fret…there will be another workshop soon, for a fee of course.
WINNER!! ::
+18
[Reply]
Sheila Polk’s closing arguments were perfect. By contrast, she makes Luis “I used to be a prosecutor” Li look even more ridiculous than he already does.
No matter what happens, she should be proud of herself and all of the hard work she’s put into prosecuting this case.
WINNER!! ::
+14
[Reply]
Awesome…thanks Salty. Gonna hunker down here with some coffee and watch.
[Reply]
I thought Miss Polk was awesome in her closing..I know she said that Ray did not mean to kill the people he did and I know that it would have been hard for the State to prove intent but I wonder if deep down she does believe that Ray intended for people to die..
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Thank you Salty for walking this walk with us…for giving us “input” when the cowards of the world (mass media) would not…and a great big THANK YOU to Ms Polk and her team for presenting so many horrific facts surrounding the devastating deaths of Kirby, James and Liz. Even though limitations were thrust upon her, she did an AMAZING JOB of bringing the actions of this awful man to light not only for the victims and their families but for all of us.
WINNER!! ::
+18
[Reply]
wondering why Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 9:41 am
@Colleen’s sister,
I agree with you wholeheartedly.. The State did have incredible limtations thrust on them..I felt like sometimes they were fighting the good fight with one hand tied behind their back but that closing summed it all up very well and the defense was STILL trying to object!! Whereas the State said nothing and let the defense ramble on adinfinitum in it’s closing..
WINNER!! ::
+11
[Reply]
I saw in Mark Duncan’s article this morning (in the Prescott Courier) that the jury will be deliberating all day today, then the court will be closed Thursday and Friday, no explanation given. I do hope they reach their verdict today; I can’t imagine more agonizing waiting for the families of the victims.
http://www.prescottaz.com
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
James Ray’s ego must be thoroughly crushed, he has GUILTY written all over his face and a huge lump in his throat. His facial expression is very different from the initial teeth clenching look of anger. Can’t wait to see his face when he hits the slammer. Maybe he can become a jail house preacher and convert his cell mates…
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:33 am
@422,…the trip to the pokey could signal a career change for Ray…maybe a jail house calendar. You know, “Pin Ups for the Penned up”…just sayin’…
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:35 am
OOPS….at the very least, a picture of his intake photo, and a new “Pin the Tail on the Con” game. Remember to play “full on”!
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
422 Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:37 am
@Omikse, he’ll be sent to the pen with his tail between his legs….and I’m sure they’ll “pin” his “tail” for many calendar years to come. :)
[Reply]
Somehow I don’t think we’ll be reading any Woohooo!! tweets as pretty boy is introduced to a fine new group of ass surgeons.
Couldn’t happen to nicer guy…
[Reply]
Does James Ray stay out out on bail until sentencing if found guilty? I am wondering if he might just choose to get out of the country rather than endure even one day in jail. Any thoughts?
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 12:35 pm
@cmg,…I believe he is out awaiting the verdict…I don’t believe he has possession of his passport any longer. I don’t how much, if any, money is left after paying for his stellar defense. That bill had/has to be HUGE…overpriced, and not much of a bargain.
[Reply]
Interested to see what other people think about how the jury will vote…poll is here:
http://poll.pollcode.com/pLz
[Reply]
I also found this odd little link. Each entry of course is an article. I found it interesting that 3 women were chosen as alternates; I had been hoping that one male juror, who had been mentioned before as very attentive and asking a lot of questions would be on the jury, though we know anything can happen. I think all the delays and antics may have almost caused a schedule conflict with him at some point, but he apparently really wanted to serve and worked it out. Don’t remember where I read that.
http://interceder.net/list/James-Arthur-Ray
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@nancy,
verdict in soon in! go to http://live.cnn.com/
[Reply]
“Mr Ray,” as Sheila referred to him, was, “impeccably dressed for this trial,” his demeanor, “was impeccable throughout.”
However, “Mr Ray,” lacked and has never had, what he insisted upon for others, and that would be, “impeccable character.”
[Reply]
Jury has requested a full list of exhibits; defense files for yet another mistrial
https://twitter.com/#!/TomMcFeeley
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@nancy,
Thank you nancy. I provide links on several sites with any new info.
[Reply]
So now another self help guru (and friend of Mr. Personality Disorder, JAR) is asking for feedback about JAR, etc. His name is John Assaraf (looks just like JAR) and the feedback is on his facebook site—-what’s his deal? So many people project kindness and sympathy onto JAR. Until I understood sociopathy i may have felt the same.
[Reply]
Verdict in 15 minutes.
[Reply]
Ya, it is good- out of business!
[Reply]
jeff Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@jeff, he didn’t get off scott-free.
[Reply]
OMG, Negligent Homicide rather than Manslaughter.
What’s the maximum sentence he can get?
[Reply]
jeff Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@Hippo, 1 yr for each count.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 4:14 pm
@jeff,
One year for each count?? OMG, that seems very insignificant for what he did.
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:21 pm
@Hippo, 3.75 years each count is being tweeted.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 8:35 pm
@Jean D,
Well, that’s somewhat better. He should be locked up for a minimum of ten years.
Thank goodness they convicted him of SOMETHING.
Can you imagine that bloated ego if he’d been acquitted??
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
June 24th, 2011 at 10:38 am
@Hippo, It is scary to think what he is capable of.
I do not see him going to prison – escape bail and/or suicide? I just don’t see his ego allowing him to go to jail. Is it possible he could get probation only?
[Reply]
I think he will still have a civil trial down the road.
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 4:47 pm
@jeff,
Ten pending civil suits against JAR and Angel Valley Retreat. The only one I’m aware of that’s been settled is with Sydney Spencer.
I’m hoping for a minimum of 6 years coupled with 5 years of probation. It would put enough fear into this fake spiritual warrior so that he might not make another attempt at a spiritual ponzi scheme.
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:22 pm
@Bethann,…it was on the news today, the civil suit with the Hammiltons’ has been settled,( stated it involved “famlies”) no disclosure as to what was done exactly.
[Reply]
jeff Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:30 pm
@Bethann,
ya, the more the merrier, though he may continue to have a following and just not host any more sweat lodges.
[Reply]
Where are people watching this? I have switched for CNN to HLN and nothing.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@Penelope,
It was on HLN very briefly at about 5:50 PM Eastern Time. Less than five minutes, then they went back to the Casey Anthony trial.
[Reply]
If I had a twitter account I’d have to tweet a Big WhooHoo!!
[Reply]
Thanks Salty for all you’ve done to bring attention to this trial. This trial has ramifications beyond just James Ray. The whole so-called spirituality & self-help industry needs to be held to some form of accoutability.
[Reply]
Agree100% Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:31 pm
@Penelope, You are absolutely spot on. The entire SECRET business was a money making machine for a few people. Yes Rhonda Byrnes did have an idea but I reckon those who faked anything just to be included are just as responsible as JR. The whole this is shit and a bloody disgrace to the human race. I just wonder if any of them really think it was worth it now? The entire secret machine is now tainted beyond belief but perhaps that is what it was always destined to be.
[Reply]
When JR heard the first “not guilty” he got all smirky and relieved for a few seconds ’til the “guilty of negligent homicide” was spoken- classic how his demeanor changed as it sank in- “I’m a convicted criminal now”, er… that is if he is capable of such introspection.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
I am so confused about AZ law. It is my understanding these are felonies and yet he is allowed to leave under prior conditions? I assume next week Ms.Polk will read impact statements and call witnesses to testify about gravity of pain caused? What is going on? I thought these charges minimums were 3 years… Glad he is guilty, now some consequences would be nice.
[Reply]
Pathfinder Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:56 pm
@ChrissyLincoln, From what I understand, the trial will continue next Tuesday to for testimony on the “aggravated circumstances” – see earlier SD post showing Greg Hartle in boxing shorts. If he is convicted of these, then longest sentence is mandatory. Don’t what the judge will do. But the trial is not yet over.
[Reply]
Well, thanks, Salty, for everything you’ve done for us. I’m still confused about the possible sentence, though–I remember reading somewhere the max for the manslaughter charge was 37.5 years, for the negligent homicides 11. Doesn’t the jury recommend a sentence but then the judge decides?
[Reply]
I find that very anticlimactic … like getting into your safety school.
I have something to do now … I’ll post that video later … and try to say something coherent.
[Reply]
My best guess is he’ll go Three For Three…though we’ve heard the max is 11 1/2 years. I’m hoping there will be some justice here and the bastard will do Four For Four!!
The look on his face…priceless!
[Reply]
Salty
My thanks as well for all you’ve done here. I so appreciate it.
Any thoughts on a sentence vs. probation? If sentenced, does
he get a “club fed,” a minimum or maximum security prison?
Guys like JR just always seem to beat the system somehow.
Thanks again SD for this information portal. Must have
taken a great deal of time.
cmg
[Reply]
Yes Salty, many thanks! Learned a lot from this site, you robot types really cut through the BS and make it clear for those who are mere humans. Feeling a bit strange. Some relief. Sincerely hoping the sweat lodge dreams stop now. Sincerely hoping JAR does some serious time without all the meds. He won’t be nearly so pretty when he gets out.
[Reply]
Guilty on Three Counts of Negligent Homicide… AND he slipped from 11th to 13th on Lanny Morton and Bob Proctors Six Minutes to Success Launch… All on the same day… Poor guy can’t catch a break! At least Lanny thanked him for the support :)
Ps. Hey ‘The Secret’ crew, im curious what kind of visualizations or things JAR had inside him to ‘attract’ this? Jus curious. Been thinking bout gettin me some law of attraction… But also want to avoid being convicted by a jury of peers for negligently killing three people… Any thoughts? Vibrations? Feeling? Inklings on how I can have the best of both worlds?
*cue crickets chirp*
Nothing?
Here are the Top 25 OVERALL to date:
1 Blair Gorman
2 Tapping Solution
3 Mind Movies
4 Mind Valley
5 Bill Harris
6 Brian Proctor
7 Doug Westmoreland
8 Vic Johnson
9 Brian Tracy
10 Frank Mangano
11 Sonia Ricotti
12 Alvin Huang
13 James Ray
14 Vick Strizheus
15 Ed Rush
16 James Thompson
17 Magnus Huckvale
18 Robert Anthony
19 Lee Jenkins
20 Chris Attwood
21 Larry Ostrovsky
22 Henk Schram
23 John Assaraf
24 Ed O’Keefe
25 My Daily Insights
Thanks again for the support, we really appreciate you guys.
Lanny Morton
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@How does this happen?,
James Ray: not so much attraction, plenty of law.
[Reply]
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/22/20110622sweat-lodge-case-james-ray-verdict-arizona.html
“A charge of negligent homicide can carry penalties up to 11 years”
Don’t know what the minimum is or whether the judge will sentence consecutively or concurrently.
[Reply]
WINNER!! ::
+16
[Reply]
State’s witnesses for the aggravation hearing:
Virginia Brown
Ross Diskin
Megan Fredrickson
Amayra Hamilton
Alyssa Gillespie
Jane Gripp-Shore
Michael Hamilton
Melinda Martin
Andrea Puckett
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
nancy Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:09 pm
@Yakaru, Megan Fredrickson for the State? I would have thought she would appear for the defense. Interesting, thanks
[Reply]
Kase Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:14 pm
Does anyone know when this hearing will be??
[Reply]
nancy Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:31 pm
@Kase, The jury reconvenes on Tuesday.
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@Yakaru,
Megan Fredrickson who has the benefit of immunity? The same Megan Fredrickson who might have asked that records be destroyed at JRI, per Melinda Martin’s statement, Megan Fredrickson Amway dealer and possible sychophant to JAR and JRI?
I don’t see a possibility of her appearance.
[Reply]
I’m just glad JAR didn’t skate on this. Who knows how much misery will be avoided while he’s out of action. Salty yhanks for everything you’ve done on this case and your other “wake up and smell the BS” efforts to educate the unsuspecting public.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Dancing Bubba Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:36 pm
@Dancing Bubba, Salty, sorry Thanks (not yhanks) for everything.
[Reply]
Salty, thanks so much for keeping this a place where everyone could talk to one another about this and explore all aspects of it without feeling put
down for opinions or feelings. Most of all for keeping it focused on the people who have been most harmed by this man. Also, let me thank all the people who have kept us up to date from the courtroom, and all of you who have shared information and answers to each others questions. I have gotten to know a great group of people, I just wish it had been for a better reason.
WINNER!! ::
+11
[Reply]
New Age Guru Guilty in Sweat Lodge Deaths!!!!!!!!!!!
PHOENIX — A jury found James A. Ray, a self-help guru, guilty of negligent homicide on Wednesday in the deaths of three of his followers during a botched sweat lodge ceremony near Sedona in October 2009.
The decision, delivered after a nearly four-month trial in Yavapai County Superior Court in Camp Verde, Ariz., means Mr. Ray was found to have caused the deaths of Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y.; James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee; and Liz Neuman, 49, of Prior Lake, Minn., but did not necessarily recognize the risk he put them in. He could face anywhere from probation to more than 30 years in prison on the three guilty counts as court proceedings continue next week.
The prosecutor, Sheila Polk, had pursued a more serious charge of manslaughter, arguing that Mr. Ray should have known that the way he ran the two-hour ceremony, in which hot stones were piled in the center of the sweltering lodge, risked death and that he disregarded that risk.
The case drew international attention, largely because of the bizarre circumstances and because the deaths took place at a pristine campground within sight of the red rocks of Sedona, a well-known New Age gathering place.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/us/23sweat.html
[Reply]
It is really hard believe that they are bringing Megan Fredrickson in for the penalty phase, unless she has done an incredible about face! Here we have the former trollop for our least favorite “No-Help” Guru. Yes, we know in the past she has lied her slutty little ass off for him, while destroyed evidence…
http://spiritualityisnoexcuse.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/the-immune-megan-fredrickson/
but now in an effort to make amends for facilitating the Slimeball Charlatan, she’s here to come clean on all the dirty little secrets.
If that’s true (and I seriously doubt it) that could be devastating!
Assuming her immunity still stands, we could get a good look behind the curtain, while watching Jimmy shit himself. It’s the Law of Attraction.
[Reply]
Deepest thanks to all the families and loved ones…
http://tommcfeeley.com/tag/megan-fredrickson
[Reply]
GUILTY! That wasn’t a very long wait.
[Reply]
Pickles Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:33 pm
@Momzilla, Awesome isnt it!
No matter what happens from here James Ray and all the other SECRET contributors have to live with his guilty verdict as a blot against the SECRET name. I wonder if Rhonda Byrnes will sue James Ray for misappropriating her SECRET intentions.
This opens up a whole new chapter in the self help industry and its about time.
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cmg Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:48 pm
@Momzilla,
Rhonda is as guilty as the rest … IMHO … she is just as much a fraud…She took Wallace Wattle’s information – packaged it with the help of some associates, probably made millions …
Do you really think she cares about James Ray’s actions now? She’s gotten her rewards…and in my opinion, she is as the biggest fraud of all…
So sorry to say that … because so many unsuspecting people really believed in the movie…
I asked myself, “how did this woman make millions from an idea that was thousands of years old?”
answer: marketing sponsored by greed…
and so it is
oh by the way, she does not GAS about our feelings — she has the money and we are merely opining …
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For what it’s worth. Had a dream about JR – in it, he was standing by the podium of his former self – he was now his current self. He shattered like a stained glass window (hmmm – interesting metaphor), and obliterated into a thousand pieces … the illusion destroyed.
I do agree with those who posted that this story is BIGGER than JR — it is about the illusion of these self help gurus who claim they have the KEY to our ultimate freedom….
They are the purveyors of the worst kind of untruth — WE have all the wisdom we need – when we choose to go within and make our own connection with our own divine source …
I believe the movie “The Secret” was a huge sham — it was a rewrite of many earlier books – primarily Wallace Wattles and his group – the information is sound – but the purpose of this movie does not appear to be to help other souls — the purpose of this movie appears to be purely commercial – for money … Simply, some opportunists “repurposed” some good spiritual knowledge, packaged it really well – and voila’ – they make tons of money and end up on Oprah
My hope is that JR’s story serves as an opening for awareness — JR’s clients were theoretically intelligent and balanced souls…
But clearly not … so what do I learn from this? Our wisdom lies within each of us — we don’t need gurus – we need the connection with our inner selves where true wisdom resides …
JR, Vitale, and all the other “wisdom keepers” PROFITED huge on the emptiness of so many hungry souls…
That is what I find so terribly sad … 3 people died in this quest …needlessly …and regardless of James Ray’s punishment …nothing will bring them back …nothing will replace the loss of experiences their families might have had with them…
There is nothing – No Thing – that can change the true story — 3 souls did not get to finish their lives journeys….
So with all the anger on this forum, I find myself equally angry and sad… why did this happen?
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Disillusioned Reply:
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:26 pm
@cmg, I cant agree more. I want to see the people in the secret movie and anyone else using the Wallace D Wattles information wrongly fully exposed for what they are doing to other peoples lives. I know from the personal experience of being employed by one of these people that they use very specific techniques to manipulate peoples minds. The person I worked for boasted about using it and I also witnessed it first hand. I watched as employee after employee realized what was going on and left one by one. No self respecting individual can deal with the crap that these sorts of narcissists inflict on others. Apart from expecting staff to work for nothing while creaming every penny from seminar guests who paid, in some instances, tens of thousands and the myriad of other disgusting things that went on, the mind boggled how these people actually slept at all. What they do is deliberate and calculated and the only purpose is to make themselves financially rich because it has proven that there is no other benefit to anyone. I saw some shocking examples of manipulation, greed and threats made to people if they dared question. I do not believe these people have the appropriate qualifications to deal with other peoples lives in the way that they do. They hate it when their lies are exposed and they show no respect for most things but they are ever willing to suck up to anyone who they think they can benefit financially from. Ironically they are always the first to flower up their relationships to make people think nothing could be more peachy which only makes them look all the more ridiculous, when most people know the truth but dont show them because most people are too descent and think so long as it doesnt affect me I’ll let them continue to look idiots. I have discovered that the person I worked for had a lot to hide and wanted to hide from a lot also. He could not face being accountable just the same as JR couldnt, so he lied and lied and lied until he became so screwed up in his own lies that there is no place to hide any more. Lets see if James Ray does what that Aussie guy David Schirmer did and blames everyone but himself for the pathetic mess that he created himself.
[Reply]
Dan Reply:
June 23rd, 2011 at 12:23 am
@Disillusioned, What was your former guru’s name?
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Disillusioned
Thank you! You affirm that there ARE souls who are aware … BLESS you for responding….thank you a million times over
I have not worked for any of these alleged “gurus,” but I have sent them thousands of dollars (silly me) …
You have an amazing insight into the inner workings of these frauds …
perhaps, perhaps — someday, some way – some of us can join together
and really make a difference…
Either way, this wonderful forum created by SD is a very good beginning…
So again, thank you SD — whoever you are …
my blessings
cmg
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Guys please can you someone explain me what will be next? SO he has been found guilty and he will go to jail for sure for maximum of 11years. When will we know for how long will he go?
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Peter
The court allowed 2 days for information re: aggrevated assault…
If AA is determined by the jury to be so, the state of AZ has
a mandantory sentence per violation….
we should know by thursday next week ..
he will not get probation…
we’ll see …
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ASuccessfulComment! Reply:
June 23rd, 2011 at 7:57 pm
@cmg,
I agree he will not get probation. But remember he has time served from Feb of 2010 when he spent 3 weeks in prison. That will be credited to him.
Is the jury present for the additional witnesses next week for the sentencing phase or have they been discharged?
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I agree Salty, it does feel anti-climactic. But I do take it as a victory for truth. It means all 15 of them didn’t believe the retarded organophosphate/rat poison/treated wood theory. I know it is legal and the way the system works but the defense team should be ashamed of themselves. How many fucking hours of organophosphate, rat poison nonsense did the families, jurors and everybody interested in this case have to endure? Not to mention the harassment that the good witnesses (except for Paul) were subjected to.
I will feel satisfaction when this MoFo gets aggravated assault next week when we get to hear the truth with no retarded objections every 2 seconds by the retarded defense team, or rather “liar team”.
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I have a question for Salty… and his legal prowling.. I mean prowess… look at this from the wisdom of Wikipedia:
“Criminally negligent manslaughter
Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offence of culpable homicide might apply.
It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.
Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient’s oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies (R v Adomako).”
This article seems to make them sound like interchangeable terms for the same thing. Is the definition of the criminal charges state determined?
Criminal negligent homocide sounds as serious as criminal manslaughter. Is there that much difference in the penalties for each?
And Salty.. thank you for being such a wonderful resource for this whole mish-mosh. I knew I could always find the latest and greatest here along with a dash of humor and intelligent commentary (that includes the commenters too!).
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ASuccessfulComment! Reply:
June 23rd, 2011 at 3:12 am
Oh No! This is about Ohio.. but JAR couldn’t have been convicted of a MISDEMEANOR – it IS a felony.. right?
yes, here in ohio manslaughter is a felony, negligent homicide is a misdemeanor. if you dont believe me look up that case in Lima, Ohio where the swat team guy killed a woman and shot her baby she was holding by “accident” in a raid, and just because he was a cop he got off easy on a charge of negligent homicide, prison for a YEAR, easy federal time at that if he was even convicted, ******** cops. Ive had a couple friends in prison for manslaughter, usually you get a couple years if its your first felony, but my one friend had 2 ocunts of vehicular homicide and got 1 year of work release, not even prison, another had one count manslaughter but fleeing the scene was another felony he had he got 2 years prison
I have to stop reading…
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Fantastic!
Now, where are the consequences for all of the media idiots who helped flack this guy’s wares?
Oprah? Larry King? How long does the list go on?
Will they now publicly apologize for promoting this killer?
No.
They all deserve just a little stinging piece of whatever sentence RayRay gets.
RJ
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
June 23rd, 2011 at 2:58 pm
@Ross Jeffries,…From NYMag today…
“Last week, Oprah declared that she dreams of O.J. Simpson confessing to her on her newish (and struggling) OWN channel. “I am going to make that happen, people,” she said. “I don’t just want the interview. I want the interview on the condition that you are ready, Mr. Simpson.” Apparently, when you’re Oprah, all you have to do is say something, out loud, and it comes true, because Simpson has reportedly agreed to confess to Oprah, according to the National Enquirer. The tabloid reports that Simpson recently fessed up to one of Oprah’s producers from prison, where he’s currently serving a nine-year sentence for armed robbery, and intends to do the same to Oprah. Simpson reportedly claimed to the producer that while he did kill Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman (mystery solved!) he did it in self-defense. And however full of shit that explanation sounds, is there anyone who wouldn’t tune in to watch it? ”
So, I would have to guess Oprah and Larry King may be racing each other to Arizona soon, for that “How James Ray Fooled Me” interview….they all deserve each other.
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Here is the link to the JAR discussion thread on Assaraf’s Facebook page. http://www.facebook.com/johnassarafpage/posts/10150231905333658
IMHO he is casually trying to distance himself and create a position of mildly condeming JAR while at the same time taking the tone of “not judging”. Also a clever use of social media to “test the waters” for his next launch or whatever. Assaraf has had his own LOA chaalenges given the recent banrkruptcy of his OneCoach business.
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Yakaru Reply:
June 23rd, 2011 at 2:47 pm
@@luckygalnj,
Assaraf is a bit late to the party, isn’t he, like nearly two years.
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The Nazis couldn’t have run the liquidation of the Jews without the clerks who kept lists of the victims to be shipped and the people running the trains etc etc.
Guys lie Ray can’t attract followers without the TV producers who book them on shows, the interviewers who fawn all over them, the marketeers who push them on their own lists of followers.
All of these folks share in his guilt and deserve some punishment.
RJ
[Reply]
Kerry Reply:
June 24th, 2011 at 10:07 am
@Ross Jeffries,
So Ross proves Godwin’s law for this thread. At any rate, yes, he was totally enabled by all the media attention. You can tell the point at which a Guru starts to belive their own hype. It is when the media buys in. And then they are all like “Holy Shit! I really AM a spiritual leader!”
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Linda Em Reply:
June 25th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@Ross Jeffries, if we go back in history to another Jim…Jones that is, he was the darling of the politicians and media people too, which made him stronger in his ability to get followers. He was also very good at “faking it”. He gave tours to the media showing all the crops he was growing, and they were faked. He brainwashed his people to say the right things and do the right things under punishment of death or harm to loved ones, and he dealt with those who wanted to leave but killing them. But he would not have gotten such support if it hadn’t been for the media and the politicos.
[Reply]
kalista7 Reply:
June 28th, 2011 at 10:16 pm
@Ross Jeffries, I hope this isn’t the NLP Ross Jeffries.
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This from Jim Kyle for In session:
“It would be appropriate to say that the defense team was quietly stunned.”
“It was unspoken that she [Do] was sharing the same feelings as the rest of her team who are deeply disheartened that their strong arguments for prosecutorial misconduct had gone surprisingly unheeded, making it difficult to predict in which direction the court’s favor would now go.”
Kind of sums up In Session’s attitude for this entire trial. The whole thing for them revolved around the defense team, with Ray in a cameo role of himself as the “defendant”.
It also confirms what I thought Li was up to, when he put his hand on Death Ray’s shoulder: trying to get himself in the shot for a triumphant “not guilty” picture. I’m surprised he didn’t lean into the picture and smile for the camera when the first verdict was read out. (Truc probably told him it would be cheesy.)
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LaVaughn Reply:
June 24th, 2011 at 8:04 am
@Yakaru, I don’t think the defense team was stunned. Li, maybe. He’s been in a world all his own since he successfully argued the Brady violation. Do and Kelly have had resigned looks on their faces for months. In Session was stunned. I will say that. Their bias in this case has been some of the most unprofessional journalism I’ve ever seen… and that’s really saying something in this media climate. Their disdain for the prosecutors has been palpable and I don’t think it’s about “misconduct.” It’s elitism. The same tone of derision we got from Li, like, uh, we’re from LA… and you’re a bunch of rubes who don’t know how the law works. Now, let me just lecture this superior court judge over and over for as long as I can get away with, you know, unless Truc tells me I’m being cheesy. Unfuckingbelievable.
WINNER!! ::
+8
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Stoic Reply:
June 25th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@LaVaughn,
Something to ponder, the defence team take their instructions from the defendent, they didn’t come up with that string of alternative causes/excuses on their own.
They are also under instruction from the defendent to keep on arguing, even when they know in some dark corner of their hearts that they are onto a loser.
James Arthur Ray is the person who could at any time have conceded the point, not his defence team, he is the one who has insisted on this farce of a defence—and I hope that Mungo, Pollock and the rest work very hard on padding his bill and collecting on it.
That said, I don’t think Mungo et al deserve any credit at all for taking the case in the first place
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LaVaughn Reply:
June 25th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
@Stoic, Yes and no. Defense attorneys sometimes barely speak to their clients. They literally don’t want to know too much because they are officers of the court. A lot of that defense, they created. The organophosphate theory came from Truc Do listening to hours of the recorded, rather than transcribed, police interviews. She heard that piece of background noise and built an alternate theory around it, which she then got Dr. Paul to sign off on — it wasn’t even in his original report. It was nowhere but in the speculation of someone they think was an EMT. I also saw mention somewhere that they tried at least twice to settle this case but were declined by by the State. I doubt Ray was willing to concede much and probably wanted to get off with time served or something.
As I said here Ray should have called this whole thing off before it ever even went to trial. He would have saved himself a lot of pain and money. I guess he thought he and his giant ego could ride this out. Very, very foolish.
Being a defense attorney can be a very noble profession. A lot of innocent people are prosecuted and poor ones tend to get convicted. But take a look at the kinds of clients that firm represents. Noble doesn’t enter into it. There’s a reason defense attorneys have a bad name, in this country, and you saw the reasons for that in vivid detail during this trial.
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Well I guess this says it well enough…
Negligent homicide is classified as a class 4 felony in Arizona and *carries a minimum sentence of 1.5 years in jail for each count*. This means that Ray could be locked up behind bars for at least 4.5 years, since he was convicted of three counts. Jurors in the case will reconvene on June 28 to determine if there were aggravating factors in Ray’s case. Sentencing is set to occur within 30 days.
He has to go to jail… without passing go and collecting his $200 from Lanny Morton. :-)
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I find it interesting that the AP story about the verdict, which appeared on page 4 of the first section of my local paper (The Houston Chronicle), noted that there was no reaction from JAR as the verdict was read. Um… that gulping, and those myriad facial expressions, constituted a clear reaction, IMO. And I noticed those the first time I watched ‘em, even before seeing Salty’s wonderful vid the next day.
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Anyone worried JAR is going to jump bail?
I think if he has any money hidden anyplace he will. I suspect that his wealth ,harmonic or otherwise, was vastly overstated and has been depleted.
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WOW. I am in near disbelief. I am reading these JAR tweets. Someone please tell me…was this guy sitting in a United State court room where he is defending himself on three manslaughter charges and he’s making sarcastic tweets, evenabout his own defense team?
Is this guy not a bit remorseful? I look at his video SEVERAL times while the verdict is being read. Is it me, or is he literally fighting back a smirk at the intial “not guilty” verdict on the first charge read, the manslaughter charge? then when the second verdict is read on negligent homoecide his not-quite-hidden smirk goes to stunned desperation?
I hope the sentencing goes rather harshly for him. I do. I am Native and the sweat lodge has been part of my whole life. In fact, it is part of a way of life that invokes very sacred and powerful experiences – THEY ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE!! I have never seen anyone exploit and distort our spiritual practices more than this definitive narcicist. Such behavior is warned constantly in Indian Country – DO NOT misuse these ways, YOU WILL HURT YOURSELF AND OTHERS.
I do believe he should of been clearly found guilty of the one manslaughter charge for sure, where when he was told someone was unconscious and not responding and he says: we will deal with that later.
In an inferno hot sweat lodge, after a short but grueling desert fasting make-shift vision quest such as Ray fashioned for these people, when someone is “down” — you STOP what you are doing and tend to that Sacred Human Being! The WHOLE meaning of sweat lodge is COMPASSION, not mind altering states-of-being to “break on through the other side”. Such states are developed in very highly regarded ceremonies and overseen by true authentic, recognized Native medicine people, NOT HUCKSTERS. And guess what!! They are FREE!!! The only requirement is a commitment to live the life ways emodied in the ceremonies.
One other very important point: these Native ways are not about Harmonic wealth of laws-of-attraction — NO!! They are about sacrifice and community.
Ray will have the opportunity in prison to remember and relearn the Teachings he ignored and exploited as the Native inmates will definitely give him special attention…its the Law of Attraction, you get what you put out there. Lesson: DO NOT EXPLOIT SACRED CEREMONIES or other peoples cultures and spirituality.
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zymos Reply:
June 29th, 2011 at 6:52 am
@strongsuntea,
in case you didn’t realize, tweets with the #jamesray tag aren’t FROM him, they are ABOUT him
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Virginia Brown (Kirby’s mother) calls James Ray a Loser! Great interview…
http://hudsonvalley.ynn.com/content/547939/victim-s-family-reacts-to-verdict-in-sweat-lodge-deaths/
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Bonnie Reply:
June 29th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
@kalista7,
I sure hope she repeated exactly what she said in that interview when she was on the stand yesterday:
~~~~
“Mr. Ray preaches that winners take responsibility for their actions, intended or not, positive or negative. And clearly he’s a loser. He did not take responsibility for his actions,” said Virginia Brown.
~~~~
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I have been absent for some time, but now I remember why I used to love this website.Thanks , I will try and check back more often.How frequently you update your site?
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