The {turd}Bucket List

it's not the ritual ... the paper weight

More charges need to be brought against motherfucking bastard James Arthur Ray … right this second!! What in the hell is wrong with this lame ass country? But I suppose I already made that point.

Munger Tolles & Olsen’s request for a retrial in the death lodge case has been denied … because it was stupid and they are crap lawyers who will get you put in the jails rich corporate guy who is currently reading this five years later.

The foreman of the jury had the following to say :: in a must read article by Marc Duncan :: about the Munger Tolles & Olsen defense …

“I don’t know of anybody on the jury who thought that was a valid defense.”

Good point … it was all very stupid because very stupid is what I usually expect from Munger Tolles & Olsen. James Ray should have asked for a public defender after the first time Luis Li said :: “ants … literally.”

“Eight of us wanted manslaughter, and the other four felt that he wasn’t aware of all that those people were going through.”

The jury wished they’d heard about the death of Colleen Conaway :: so that the other four could have come around to the truth.

The people in the death lodge wished they’d heard about Colleen too … it would have been enough to keep many participants away. In a thirty person lodge there probably would have been enough oxygen for Kirby to live … and James Shore {who was in attendance at the San Diego event where Colleen lost her life} wouldn’t have been in the lodge {he almost wasn’t anyway}.

The sentencing phase of the trial is scheduled to begin soon :: and the defense has submitted their list of homicide supporters.  Here are some details :: help me fill in the blanks …


— Bob Procter — Scammer :: bastard :: creepy old man.  Thank you Oprah for your The Secrets.

— David McCall —

— Kathy Fleig —

— Dr. Matt Bynum :: a vanity dentist in South Carolina who supports freakishly white smiles … and killing people in the mud. Matt Bynum appeared on InSession to help CNN understand Death Ray’s innocence :: and his testimonial is still on Ray’s decaying website

… please disregard the testimonial immediately above Dr. Matt Bynum’s … I think it’s safe to assume that it’s been retracted via her horribly pointless death.

— Amy Grothe — former JRI employee … apparently still sucking the sweat from the devil’s dirty underwear.

— Genpo Roshi — aka Dennis Merzel … disrobed {in a sex scandal} fake monk from Utah with long lasting financial ties to Death Ray :: Bob Proctor :: and Bill Harris. Dennis made frequent appearances at James Ray events :: especially Ray’s ultra-scam … the World Wealth Society.

— Jeff Adshead — looks totally creepy … but he’d love to take your kids to an “experiential camp” that will change the world via personal transformation.  It sounds like a stupid idea :: but he does have a testimonial {that he’s still using} from a thrice convicted killer

“True wealth is a state of harmony and well-being in every area of life. Jeff Adshead and NextGen Academy understand this, and they have a big vision for youth, and for the world. Using a unique style of highly experiential programs, they help youth put into practice what they learn. As a result, graduates of NexGen Academy leave truly knowing universal principles versus just knowing about them. I highly recommend this training — you’ll begin to live in greater harmony, bring your highest intention into reality, and find tools to transform every single area of your life.”

– James Arthur Ray,
Mentor, Philosopher, and New York Times bestselling author of Harmonic Wealth® and The Science of Success.

… he can haz u kids now?

— Dr. Tony Allessandra — He’s a Certified Speaking Professional who loves the senseless snuffing out of innocent life … and vans down by the river.

— Dr. Richard Sandore — wants you to know that

“In my teaching, writing, and mentoring, with individual and businesses I assist those willing to bask in the light of their own sun to part the clouds.”

Sure :: whatever guy.

Richard Sandore used to be an affiliate for James Arthur Ray :: the link is still up on his shit site.

— Alex Smyth — the “financial controller” {whatever that means} for JRI who testified during the pretrial hearing that James Arthur Ray was too broke to make bail :: having spent the majority of his victim’s money on hair creams and Spanx for Men.

— Wayne Parker —

— Donneta Parker —

— Ward Smith — Here’s a comment from Ward Smith on the InSession blog the day of the conviction …

“The state and federal government is out of control, not only in AZ, but all over the USA. Thanks to Li, he’s got the brains and organizational skills to call them out on it. DAs have been railroading citizens as long as politically elected offices await them. It gets down to conviction percentage. They aren’t even human. The more people they convict, guilty or not, the higher the political ladder they are apt to climb. Talk about parasites of our country. I couldn’t afford Li if I got accused of a crime. But a Li should be appointed to every defendant in this country. We put innocent people to death, we send innocent people to prison, we financially break innocents who have to defend themselves against the BS accusations of the state. What have we become? Or have we always been to careless with the plight of people’s lives we don’t know? Li makes me proud to be an American. The state of AZ makes me want to move to the former Soviet Union. A fairer trial could be had there.”

Good news Ward Smith :: your request to be transferred to the Soviet Union has been granted … please enjoy the Gulags.

— Jason Tabeu —

— John Watkin —

— John Ferriter — possibly The William Morris Agency agent that Death Ray shared with Larry King :: I guess he feels like he still hasn’t done enough damage.

— Tony Parinello — helped James Ray produce and distribute a paid podcast about living a successful life while JAR was waiting to go on trial for killing people who had paid him to learn to live a more successful life.

— Jon Ray — took a bus ride to Colleen Conaway’s death :: and then helped plan dinner and a cover-up.

— Joyce Ray — may have accidentally brought home a baby that belonged to Rosemary.

>> bleep bloop

278 thoughts on “The {turd}Bucket List”

  1. What a rogue’s gallery of assholes that is. Marc Duncan’s article is excellent, what a burden those jurors felt. This quote from his article really says it all:

    “Brown and Shore died in an oversized, virtually airtight sweat lodge…”

    Is there any realistic chance charges will be brought against Ray in Colleen Conaway’s death?

    Dennis Merzel is a complete shit stain and has long been a blot on the reputation of Zen Buddhism in this country. After fucking at least three of his students and being reprimanded by his sangha Merzel stated that the letter asking him to step down was a far worse crime than his own sexual impropriety…sure it was.

    If Merzel meets the Buddha on the road I hope the Buddha draws first. I’m not surprised to hear that he has financial ties to Death Ray. Birds of a feather, after all.

    1. @Barbara,

      I couldn’t understand how a guy (the ex-monk) who appeared to have taken responsibility for his own stupid actions, was standing up for a guy (JAR) who has yet to take responsibility for his stupid and lethal actions.

      I read your post, and I now understand. I had assumed that GR had stepped down of his own volition. If GR thinks that being asked to disrobe was more grievous than betraying his wife and his religious teachings, it would explain why a narcissist would come to the aid of another narcissist.

      Can’t any of these bozos see that JAR refuses to accept even a morsel of responsibility for what he’s done?

      And I wonder what position Ward Smith would take, if he had a wife or child who died in the sweat lodge that day back in October 2009. Would he be so quick to criticize Arizona’s prosecutorial system?

    2. @Barbara ::

      FuckHead Dennis Merzel charges $50,000 for his version of Spiritual Warrior.

      Last June I heard that Death Ray made a pilgrimage to visit Dennis in Utah … but he probably would have been too cash strapped to pay. I wonder what he and Ray talked about? Future business perhaps?

      Maybe someone named Sheila can ask him about that.

      1. @SD, At hearings such as these, does the judge receive bios on the witnesses and/or is the prosecution allowed to call in to question their character and histories? How are they introduced and evaluated for credibility? I really hope the facts about these various sleeze balls can be presented in the courtroom. Also, will the jurors be present?

        1. @Jean D ::

          I don’t know the exact procedure :: different courts are different. But both sides always get a chance … and the jury is done and gone.

  2. Ward Smith’s comment on inSession is my nomination for the dumbest comment yet on this matter. Even dumber than the commenter on the Huff post who claimed Ray was only on trial because the Powers-That-Be are conspiring to stop him revealing the secret of their power (i,e, The Secret) with the public.

    Sheila Polk is only interested in percentages of convictions? Has he been sniffing glue?

    1. @what??,

      You can’t get any better witnesses than what you are — don’t you know that you attract what you *are*? I don’t know half of these people, but the ones I do know are *exactly* what JAR *is*! Like attracts like. Yep, that’s what they tell us!

    2. @what?? ::

      I also wouldn’t be too surprised if this list was mostly fake bluster :: and they ended up calling only Joyce and Jon.

      I’d really love to ask John Ferriter five questions under oath though … if he wants to volunteer for that.

      1. @SD,

        I’m curious as to why you think that, Salty? Wouldn’t they have tried to make doubly sure that all listed would/could be there so that they wouldn’t be embarrassed and to save face? I’m not doubting you, I just wonder why you would think that. Of course, it would be “great” if no one showed up except sleazy bro and momzy-wumzy.

        1. @Bonnie ::

          That’s just a regular stupid lawyer thing to do.

          Remember how they pretended they were going to put on a defense :: and then only called Dr. Paul?

  3. Jeff Asshead looks more than creepy, anyone who would put an adolescent into his care should be shot. Who puts the endorsement of a murderer on their website?

    From NextGen Academy website:
    “Picture yourself as a young 18 year-old becoming aware of the real world -… experiencing the slums of a developing nation,… or seeing what once was only a vision turn into a reality – this is but a taste of the myriad of life-changing experiences that await a participant!”

    That’s from Asshead’s website. Who the fuck wants their 18 year old to experience a third world slum?

    “You’ll thrill to the cholera and the stench of untreated sewage! See the excrement clogged stream that flows by your tent and experience first hand the lack of potable water!”

    Yeah, get a taste of that, while Asshead spends your parent’s money. I’ll bet there’s all kinds of things he can spend it on without those pesky regulations of the US government. The third world does have some advantages, after all.

    1. @Barbara, Certainly not my 18 year old and not with someone like Asshead, but if my 22 y.o. college grad wanted to go to a third world slum with a program like Engineers Without Borders or the Peace Corps and might actually do something useful, I’d be pretty proud. Of course, then, any financial contribution I might make wouldn’t be supporting some new wage guru’s ability to live the “internet lifestyle”. Whatever the hell that is.

      1. @Anna,

        Well, of course, if you have something genuine to contribute like trained Peace Corps volunteers do or Médecins Sans Frontières then by all means go.

        But I think Third World tourism done to gawk at the less fortunate parts of the globe or to try to gin up a sense of gratitude in offspring parents feel are insufficently appreciative is just plain wrong, it’s exploitation.

        I think all of those boot camps and “fix your kid for a price in an exotic locale” programs are another scam.

          1. @Anna,

            Jeff Adshead is a devout follower of the good “Reverend” Sun Yung Moon, in other words, a MOONIE! and NextGen is a front for their messianic bullshit brainwashing machine. Get the word out.

  4. This coming week is going to be the longest week of our entire lives. I hope and pray that the wait is worth it for all of those concerned, but most especially the families and friends of the murdered in cold blood victims and all the victims that are still alive but still suffering as a result.

    Go get ’em Salty!

    1. @Ringo ::

      Maybe they already know? Matt probably sells tapes and seminars from the back of his office {and Kangen water filters} … forces on his woo woo beliefs on patients and staff alike.

      You need a root canal … and some Practical Mysticism.

      The root canal is cheaper … and less painful.

    2. @Ringo,

      I always find it amazing how people with legitimate professional lives are attracted to these scams just like regular folks. You’d think someone with a degree in dentistry would be more focused on building a reputable practice than chasing after pennies online or listening to fake gurus. It is simply mind boggling. Just like that guy who had a decent career at one of the defense contractors and left his wife/kids to live with some crazy IM lady. Can’t remember his name but it was from a few weeks ago.

      1. @Alex, No, but think about it- you’ve already got ‘authority’ and ‘credibility’ by virtue of a degree from a recognized university- friends and family of victims are going to be unwary, so there’s not even going to be much pushback- absolutely IDEAL scam situation. If you go to a second or third tier university it’s not even that hard to get even a Ph.D. They’re often desperate for grad students to bring in funding. Add to that all the paper writing mills, people to sit your exams for you- it’s really pretty scary. And on top of all that you have the fact that honest, bright and well-trained graduates even of top programs often find it hard to scrabble tohether a decent living- which in this society means their thoughts and opinions are devalued. Everything is in place for the scammers, thieves- and murderers- to have a field day… Which they have been.

      2. @Alex,

        Its greed, plain and simple, along with unrealistic expectations of the world.

        A dentist who sells bleached teeth as an answer to the knotty problems of living is already half-way down the greed and unrealistic expectations rabbit-hole. The unicorn of ‘Harmonic Wealth’ is already riding him and once in place it is a relentless slave-driver.

        Teeth have an essential survival purpose–breaking down food as the first part of the digestive process and occasional use in a fight for tearing lumps out of your enemies. Good dentists fix holes in teeth and try to make sure that you keep them intact as long as possible–regularly applying bleaching agents is unlikely to keep teeth strong and fit for purpose.

        And blinding an adoring audience with their unnatural dazzle–while it may look good on TV— doesn’t contribute much to their usefulness as an essential survival tool.

    3. @Ringo,

      Not only is Matt Bynum a huge fan of Death Ray’s but his wife Ann is as well. She’s a pediatric dentist and wrote a glowing testimonial in support of Death Ray. She wrote that she was “honored and priveleged to write this letter on James behalf”. She says James LOVES all people, (capital letters are hers), and that he does nothing but good in the world.

      I’d stay far away from the Holly Tree Family Dental Practice if I lived in South Carolina. Imagine this woman cleaning your kid’s teeth.

  5. From Richard Sandore’s website:

    “Once you have heard the Call, nothing else will suffice. Your fate is sealed.”

    That almost sounds threatening, especially when you consider Sandore offers sweat lodge and fire walking experiences. Unfortunately that “your fate is sealed” crap turned out to be all too true for some people who went into Ray’s death tent.

    But where are the big names testifying on Ray’s behalf? Where’s Oprah? Where’s Larry King? Where’s Waldo? wait…he had nothing to do with this.

    But these are a bunch of nobodies. Where are his wealthy, powerful, influential friends? How the mighty have fallen.

    1. @Barbara,

      When I read on RS’s website that sweat lodges are offered, I thought, Oh Nooooooooooooooooo.

      But there isn’t any information about who is running them, or if there is a fee to have this experience. I guess it would be naive of me to think that RS is doing the sweats with integrity: i.e. having an American Native elder run the sweat with no fee.

      This is simply pukable. A physician who offers sweat lodges, is standing up for a man that has killed 3 people and injured many more in his own fake sweat lodge.

      This is a very sick, sick, sick world we live in.

      1. @KG,

        After the terrible tragedy with Ray’s death tent none of these people have any business offering this type of experience even if they have an entire Indian tribe standing by.

        They’ve more than proven their own incompetence and indifference to the health and safety of others. Sandore had better keep a tight grip on his medical license, testifying for a murderer isn’t going to make him look good.

        1. @Barbara,

          Absolutely on target.

          I also couldn’t understand how a physician could stand up for a criminal who killed 3 people with heat stroke. But on his site it reads: “a victim does not exist”.

          Doctors are trained to protect people and first “do no harm” with their patients. If Kirby, James and Liz were not victims, because victims don’t exist, where does he think responsibility lies?

          Again, I wonder, if one of the 3 who died were his sister, wife or brother, would he have a different idea on the word “victim”, and would he blame his loved one for their demise at the hands of an incompetent con man?

          I guess he won’t use his “victims don’t exist” line in front of Judge Darrow, and in front of the families who have suffered so much already.

            1. @KG,

              In addition to his other dubious practices he encourages the use of a Brazilian plant which is a psychotropic:

              “Ayahuasca, some shamans tell us, heals by causing the energies in us that cause our illness or disease to coagulate into a solid form. It then helps us to expel those energies by throwing up. Sometimes the retching is mild, sometimes not so pleasant.”

              When is retching ever pleasant? I do not want a medical doctor who believes such utter and complete nonsense. He thinks “energies coagulate into solid forms”? And then you can blithely vomit up what ails you?

              Close the hospitals. We can all just blow chunks until the cancer is gone, hurl away the hypertension,…I’ll stop now.

      1. @SD,

        PHEW!!! At least he’s not putting on sweats or practicing medicine anymore. Shutting off the T.V. seems simpler.

          1. @SD,

            I noticed on his new acting website he says he can speak in both midwestern and Italian accents. If he testifies on Ray’s behalf in the mtigation hearing I want him to use his Italian accent. I think he’d sound like Luigi from The Simpsons.

            “Thatsa some-a fine sweat lodge-a, eh?”

            “I didina hear-a no screma from de tent”

            1. @Barbara, It could even become an opera with fake Italian responses by Adam Sandler’s Opera Man: El James-o Ray-o is a big-a assa hole killa-o. Lotta loco going to the jail-o.

  6. Genpo Roshi… Really? I liked that guy. Shame on me I suppose.

    On the other hand: fuck you JAR, your supporters, the Secret, Oprah for promoting this non-sense to general population, everyone who was on the Secret and the entire self-help/guru-expert of nothing/spiritual healer-advisor industry.

    That is all.

    1. @Glad I Was Broke ::

      Dennis is a horror show … stay very far away.

      He was already high up on my bucket list … so this has worked out nicely.

      There can be no forgiveness for an abuse of religious power … end of story.

      Someone tell the Pope.

    2. @Glad I Was Broke, Dennis Merzel is a real piece of work, a real skeevy bag of crap. Brad Warner, who also teaches Zen, has been going after “Genpo” for quite a long while now. The whole notion of selling the dharma for big bux really peeves Warner and he’s not afraid to say so on his blog.

      1. @Mirele ::

        He gets many requests on my request line :: so anyone who gots stuff to tell me about him … now’s the moment.

      2. @Mirele,

        While it’s true Brad Warner has spoken out against Merzel’s “Big Mind” teaching fraud, which Warner calls BM, and for a damn good reason, it’s also true Warner minimized the seriousness of Merzel’s sexual misconduct. This was also for a damn good reason, Warner is guilty of the same transgression.

        “I am glad that Brad brought up the relations he had, which was chronicled in one of his books…What was disappointing is that he minimized that and backpedaled on what the book had originally revealed (in rather graphic tones, He states the woman in question wasn’t a formal student and only showed up a few times. That is like a therapist saying, “The patient wasn’t really a patient. She never filled out the right paperwork. Sure, we had a few sessions, but that was the extent of it.”…But a professional does not cross that boundary under any circumstances.”

        “I don’t think it’s helpful to weakly downplay the ramifications of sexual relations between a teacher and student and dismiss that as a true ground for people taking issue with his actions. As Brad rightly points out, there are reports of fiscal extravagances as well.” (with Dennis Merzel)

        Here’s Brad Warner on the subject:

        “I can’t say I know what Dennis Merzel went through. But I can guess what it was like, based on my own experiences. In spite of my dislike for Merzel, I have some sympathy for him. I understand that his usurpation of power wasn’t something he did solely on his own.”

        That sounds uncomfortably close to victim blaming. Dennis Merzel is based in Salt Lake City too, I see. Is there a direct portal to hell somewhere in Utah?

        1. @Barbara,

          That’s like JAR — apparently, he told his staff every single day of his events which “student” he wanted for that night and they had the honors of imparting the information to that UN”lucky little woman”. I hope every single one of them went for herpes as well as other std tests after pictures appeared with all the dozens of drugs he was on, which included valtrex for herpes, after he fled from Angel Valley after the murders leaving everything behind.

          And I wonder how much he charged them for this “great honor”? Surely he thought too much of himself and that he was worth so much more than just “giving” it away. And now he probably can’t even do that — give it away.

  7. Good summary and update, @SD. @Barbara was right about the whole rogue’s gallery thing. I’m still looking forward to the day that the whole truth comes out about Scientist Bob Proctor.

    1. @Cosmic Connie,

      I think that all these shysters might have an eye on DeathRay’s list of potentially leaderless suckers.

      The last para in the news article, quoting Darrow, was a bit worrying to me:

      ‘Emphasizing that he has not made a decision on Ray’s sentence, he said, “I want the parties prepared to address the concept of staying (delaying) the incarceration component” should he impose jail or prison time.’

      Wot, no chain gang, pink undies and stripes? Shame.

      1. @stoic ::

        Not worth worrying about that cause it could also mean he’s done with the delays :: and that he doesn’t want any excuses about needing time to come up with arguments regarding an issue that is clearly going to be at issue.

  8. @SD,

    I was looking through the list, and it got me to thinking: some of those folks’ ties to Ray are substantial. But some of them are tenuous. A few them, since they are (so far) just names may have little or no direct connection to Ray at all.

    If one of those barely connected folks were to attempt to make it clear that their association was past not present, and that they fully regretted having ever supported Death Ray in the past, how should they go about doing that?

    What I mean is: clearly @Tim Brownson’s method of attempting to disassociate himself from Naomi Dunsford was a total clusterf***.

    But earlier in the comments to this post, we see a post from @Glad I Was Broke who apparently thought Genpo Roshi was cool once. Now @Glad I Was Broke knows better and won’t be associating himself with Genpo Roshi in the future(I’m guessing).

    I’m just curious–suppose you were some public figure and you had previously supported Death Ray. What do you do now? What about the guy that helped produce the (overpriced) podcast (Tony Parinello)? Is he too connected from that one event? I mean I’d imagine he got paid pretty well.

    Is there any realistic way you can save face and distance yourself from Ray? What does it look like? Is it ultimately a court-of-public-opinion thing?

    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    1. @Wyrd :: Doctor Mario’s Guide to Scum-bag Retirement :: aka PR 101 ::

      1.) FULL STOP on everything related to promoting the scammer (no testimonials, no email blasts, no old affiliate links, etc) … cut all public ties.

      2.) Publicly (using one’s real identity) admit the mistake and apologize {profusely in this case} for being a bell-end x10 + enormous-douche. Accept full responsibility — no excuses (@Tim Brownson FAIL)!

      3.) Warn existing “list” {avec panache} to steer clear of said con artist … and generally against falling for similar types of cons. Ideally, explain in detail the mechanics of how anyone may have fallen for said type of scam in the first place.

      4.) Publicly distance oneself from said con artist(s) … providing retractions to previous statements of support (to whoever will listen) … and think about a new {actual} career.

      5.) STOP being a fucking dishonest scum bag spreading pestilence … and start devoting your energy to {genuinely} helping people & to improving the world in which we live.


      NOTE :: This only applies to actual scammers … those who are bamboozled by the cult-mind-control will have a more difficult extraction process that @Doctor Mario cannot summarize in a pretty 5 point list.

    2. @Wyrd ::

      I’d say @Doctor Mario has laid it out pretty well there.

      Caveat being :: some people on the list are probably just former students … and people who really aren’t part of “the business” … they don’t know the right people … they don’t know about the cartels.

      All they need to do is walk away and save themselves. The second they say “I’m out!” and their participation in the harm stops :: then they’re out … to me at least.

      That said :: the structure of this machine makes what @Doctor Mario describes all but impossible. If you to break ranks and talk bad about any faker :: even about … say … an open pedophile …

      … then you risk everything with all the other fakers.

      The only person I can think of off hand who tried something like the above is Tom Antion regarding James Malinchak …

      … it was impressive … and it earned him a threat letter from Tiger Woods’ threat lawyers.

      Dissent will not be tolerated. If people notice one member of the circle is an obvious liar … they might start to wonder if everyone in the circle is a liar.

      PS :: Brownson is a terrible example of how things usually work around here … because he chose me rather than me choosing him.

      1. @SD,

        (referring to Brownson above)

        I think in some twisted way he sees your post as a badge of honor- he’s in the big leagues now.

  9. Yuck. Turd bucket indeed. The whole lot of them. My sympathy with the jury, but more sympathy for the victims’ families as they have to listen to this bunch of oily-tongued shit-heads shill for the Death Ray during the sentencing. I hope some of them have outstanding warrants, and get nabbed when they show up to testify. I know, that’s too much to hope for…

    Wonder why the O isn’t testifying on his behalf? In for a penny, in for a psychopathic asshole, says I.

    1. @Dave,

      I was kinda hoping that Oprah was going to be a surprise witness for the prosecution and finally admit what a humungous mistake she made about this guy — yeah, I know, I’m a dreamer.

  10. It’s the circle. Self-help is all about the circle. Every self-help book has at least 10 of “testimonials” from other self-help author saying how awesome it is.

    While It promotes their site and website It also gives social proof… and covertly It says: “hey if this book does not work for you, It’s because you are a moron”…

    Then cognitive dissonance kicks in and you won’t get your money back from the bookstore.

    1. @Leigo ::

      Yep. Not just self-help … most 21st century scams are about circles.

      See for example :: the global finance “industry”.

      1. @SD, Speaking of circles… I’m wondering about the appearance of yet another IMer under his own name under the Kajabi thread. Do you suppose the A-teamers are encouraging the D-teamers to come here and fall on their swords to try and distract you or something?

  11. I am so fucking disgusted in Bob Proctor being involved in anything to do with this case. And all those other guys but someone like Bob Proctor claims to not concern himself with what other people think and not focus on the negative. Well there is nothing more fucking negative than this case and PEOPLE DIED at James Rays watch. I know several people have already wiped people who support James Ray because this is a case where GREED killed people. This has made me all the more determined to make the public aware of the dangers of these sorts of freaks.

    1. @disgusted,

      I know several people have already wiped people who support James Ray because this is a case where GREED killed people.

      Greed yes. Also hubris, narcissistic righteousness, a callous disregard for human life, and the desire to be seen as god by those around him.

      I’m not religious by nature, but given all those awful traits and the fact of the three deaths and the high likelihood that J-death-Ray will never admit fault or show remorse for what happened, it’s pretty easy for me to see J-death-Ray not as god but the Adversary–complete with the burn-y flames.

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @disgusted,

      Regardless of what Scientist Bob claims, he is the grandaddy of such scamming practices and could show James Ray a trick or two and doubtless has.
      Proctor is a believer in New Thought–which basically claims that anything one dreams up is divine guidance, godly inspiration and thus anything goes. Its a great excuse for every depravity–god told me to do it (not my own twisted and self-serving logic).

      Scientist Bob is one of them long-in-the-tooth sharks who knows how to project a ‘kindly uncle’ persona while he quietly ravages the souls, lives and bank accounts of his marks.

      Cages for psychopaths, especially the ‘kindly uncle’ types.

    How many people died under your so wonderful President Bush??? 1000’s and you worthless people don’t want his ass on a platter. Funny thing is, how many of you SHEEP/Followers of SALTYDROID wonder how much money this asshole Jason Jones is making? Who is this guy? Is Jason Jones your profit? Does he have all the answers your little minds can’t think of? Jason Jones, you little BITCH… LOST SOUL WITHOUT A CLUE. REMEMBER THIS FUCKHEAD WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. ALL THIS HATE YOU THROW UP ON SOCIETY IT WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU.

    1. That was actually very encouraging. Apparently to “doesn’t_matter” SD really DOES matter. LOL.

      Making scammers and evil-doers squirm is job #1. Way to go Salty!

      1. @ScamPatrol, Yes, very enlightening. Although a bit startling to find scammers think people here are likely to be huge supporters of the Bush/Cheney death machine. But what always absolutely floors me is that these guys are such complete psychos that they think Salty’s somehow making MONEY out of this! Apparently their world view/value system just doesn’t allow for any other thought than profit to enter anyone’s head at ALL.

    2. @doesnt_matter,

      Sooner or later Lee Kuan major Minor is going to show up on this thread, complete with capitals.

      1. @stoic,

        And when he does he is going to be mightily peeved that despite his spirited defence of JAR and JAR’s Harmonic Bull-shit and his own delusional predictions to the contrary, DeathRay got convicted.

    3. @doesnt_matter,

      Watch out! The “hate that you are throwing up” at people on this site will come back to haunt you. Oh, wait a minute, no it won’t. I always forget that the law of attraction says that any hate which is spewed forth in defense of the sacred teachers doesn’t count as hate. Quantum physics can explain that.

      And thanks for taking the time to read and comment here, explaining that reading and commenting here is not worth it. Very convincing argument.

      1. @Yakaru, You are absolutely right … not a very convincing argument. Too late about the coming back to haunt you because its already done full circle on James Ray, David Schirmer, Bob Proctor and all of the people mentioned on this site. They are getting the shit they gave …… FINALLY

    4. @doesnt_matter ::


      Gagging my hole wouldn’t help :: this is called TYPING …


  13. People should not be afraid of the self appointed self-help gurus
    the self appointed gurus should be afraid of the People.

    Enough is enough!

    The curtain has been raised and the Wizards are just a pathetic beings peddling baseless pseudo-philosophy. They have been caught with their underpants around their ankles.

    Crimson is the color.

    Darkness is the Goal.

    The cries of the once-believers are being heard; the lament of the hoodwinked is building – the waters of truth will not be held anymore

    The dam of illusion has been broken

    Eventually the waters of ordinary decent hard working people will sweep away this scum, these disease ridden parasites into the gutter.

    Until then Vengeance shall stalk the self appointed gurus and revenge will be taken

    for Liz, for Kirby, for James and for Colleen

    time to bury all these scamsters

  14. I’m getting a HUGE kick out of watching people out themselves over Salty’s new tag-line. The very THOUGHT that they may not be going to make a gazibillion dollars- or ANY dollars- on the internet seems to be driving some folks into an absolute stark staring bonkers frenzy.

    Which brings me to a question I’m really curious about… What IS the secret of producing huge gobs of internet moola by putting up a free site (to the public- ‘cuz I know a site that gets megaloads of traffic is sure not free to run) with NO advertising, NO ‘tip jar’, NO frauducts – or even products, no book, no ‘coaching’- no nothing at all except tons of facts about creepy creeps that really need to be stepped on- in a sometimes not so funny and an often REALLY funny way? I mean, is he supposed to be getting kick backs from dirtbags to out other dirtbags or what? ‘Cause I’ve got a whole harddrive full of all KINDS of phony secrets from some of the best-known fraudsters out there and not ONE of them gives me a single clue on how someone would pull this off.

    Or- is THAT what’s driving these folks into such a frenzied fury? Do they think Salty’s captured his own super-unicorn that shits gold bricks- and he’s not doing a single- ‘and-you-can-too’ course?

    Yvette? ANYONE?

    1. To the kind anony who answered this on another thread –

      1) You know, if you’d clicked the little red reply button you wouldn’t have had to quote my whole post over again. Just a little hint, since you seem to be having a little trouble using the intertubes.
      2) Thanks for quoting that lovely song from my youth- sure takes me back. But it really wasn’t necessary. I know the lyrics.
      3) I don’t mean to be ungrateful, but you didn’t really have to write a whole page worth of verbiage just to tell me that you didn’t know the answer to my question. (I must admit, I kinda thought you wouldn’t. It was what we here in the adult world call a ‘rhetorical question’.)

      I hope you won’t mind if I ask you a non-rhetorical question. ‘Cause I’m kind of wondering why you and so many others are rushing into L-O-O-N-G page-length defenses of someone you say really doesn’t deserve the attention that Salty’s brought to him. Because, you know, you keep saying your intention is to defend him- and what you are doing, in fact, is drawing ever more massive attention to that particular page – as opposed to the pages ‘n pages about murderers ‘n child-molesters ‘n stuff. And I’m wondering- that couldn’t really be your intention, could it? Because that would be pretty breath-takingly evil.

      1. @Wanderlost,

        I wondered that myself. Would any scammer really be lowdown enough to do that to another scammer? To specifically draw more attention to his already obviously indefensible posts seems more than tawdry.

        But I see now the Coach himself is back. The Salty Droid is must be the salt. It’s like not being able to eat one salted peanut or potato chip, you must have more.

        I really am glad that post with the song lyrics is now buried. That was a sacrilege. It’s like when your weird old uncle gets up to dance with “the kids” at a wedding reception.

        Yvette is busy now with her BFF suck face, I’ll bet you can guess what they’re doing. Yep. Sucking face. She learned her technique in the Old West from Miss Kitty, I believe.

        1. @Barbara,
          Darn and I thought you were my BFF. The inference that I am a prostitute would come off better if you didn’t use a TV character that wasn’t ever in the Old West. But it was a good effort.

      2. @Wanderlost,

        1. I replied over there because it was relevent to that post, not this one but thank you for your tutelage. I forgot to put my name in so it posted anon. It was at the end of the nested comments so I couldn’t post again and take credit for it.

        2. Knowing is not the same thing as understanding.

        3. You are right. I mistook your erotema for anacoenosis. Turns out it was epitrope.

        1. @Yvette Scott, Here’s a one item list, just for you:

          1. Spending an hour paging through a thesaurus in a futile attempt to impress only yourself doesn’t make your bullshit smell any better.

          1. @Derwin,

            That’s a mighty fine martyr complex she’s working on as well. Imagine being so out of touch with contemporary slang that you think sucking face is equivalent to prostitution. Unless a certain someone has a guilty conscience? The persecution complex and the relentless pissing and moaning are getting old.

            But that’s what trolls do, there is no honesty or real motivation except to provoke reactions. So far people have been very gentle in their teasing, but she’s running the risk of a good old-fashioned flaming like back on the list serve groups. I remember those well, I was around in the ’80s, in my case though it was the 1980’s.

        2. @Yvette Scott,
          By which I take it you won’t answer either the rhetorical or the non-rhetorical question. How surprising.

          Far be it from me to tell you how to do your job, but you know it really destroys the effect of what you’re trying to accomplish if you use words people have to look up. The whole point of trolling is to use emotion-triggering words that most folks can’t help but react to. Anything that causes a delay between reading and feeling – i.e. anything that engages the brain- tends to neutralize your attack (at least as long as your victim has a brain to engage). Salty uses the ‘vote down’ mechanism- which warns people and gives them a choice about whether and when they want to see something they know is designed to hurt and enrage. Other bloggers use ‘disemvowelling’ – taking all the vowels out of a comment so it has to be deciphered like a word puzzle. Using words that most people don’t know combines the effects of both- if I want to know what you said I can look it up. If I don’t really care I can just ignore it. Either way it loses all effectiveness.

          Anyway, just thought you might appreciate the hint.

    2. @Wanderlost,

      ‘cuz I know a site that gets megaloads of traffic is sure not free to run . . . Do they think Salty’s captured his own super-unicorn that shits gold bricks . . . ?

      The same false beliefs about internet costs and profits that drive people to buy Anthony Morrison’s Television Internets feed the “what’s Salty selling?” frenzy.

      I’m fairly new here, but I’ve learned:

      1. Salty Droid started on Twitter, which is free. (The Fake Robot also had MySpace and YouTube accounts, which are also free.)

      2. Salty Droid used to be on WordPress, which is free.

      3. Salty Droid is now hosted by nonprofit free speech collective Project DoD, which asks for a “suggested donation of $60.00 a year” for hosting. While DoD sets a “default 25 Gigs of bandwidth a month,” “you will not be charged extra if you go over.” That’s comparable to all the for-profit hosts out there, who are charging around $5 a month for a WordPress-ready site with unlimited bandwidth.

      It seems to me that Salty Droid costs $70 a year to keep up – $10 for domain registration and $60 for hosting. How much have you donated this year to fight for causes you believe in? How much have you spent on your hobbies this year?

      So why is Salty Droid so successful? “What IS the secret of producing huge gobs of internet moola”?

      Different questions, same answer: a metric fuck-ton of time and effort.

      1. Thanks Lanna- glad to know Salty’s not spending the grocery – er- robot-maintenance money on this site. My commercial hosting costs me less than twice that, but I was under the impression that it could run me into major money if any of the sites I have there started getting major traffic- because although theoretically you’ve got ‘unlimited’ bandwidth when you get into the details it seems if you’ve got consistently huge traffic they make you pay for a dedicated server. (My sites- things like a page for my dad’s memoirs and a site for an artist friend have never had a lot of traffic- and aren’t likely to, so I’ve never worried about it.) When I first put up my own site in the ’90’s the best combo of bandwidth and usability I could find was $60 a month- and I’m sure those early, relatively costly services have been feeding into the “internet pages cost megabucks to run and are so-o-o complicated, you’ll save money if you give it all over to a ‘professional'” meme ever since.

        You’re so right about the snow job being done on people about costs. When I was looking into the “offline marketing niche” I was appalled to see how much they were suggesting we charge small businesses to set up a simple mailing list with autoresponders on A-weber. And even worse was telling us to keep their data on our own account so that they couldn’t easily switch either to administering it themselves or hiring another, cheaper service provider. Just another version of the old web-page building scam where the service provider keeps both hosting and domain under his own name, charging an arm and a leg for simple changes and holding the client’s business hostage if they want to leave.

        1. @Wanderlost, I think maybe it’s about that no-monetization is what’s the ethically and legally prudent thing to do, maybe. I heard somewhere that SD knew something about 1st Amendment law.

  15. WHY am I not surprised?? Hearing is postponed. As per FB, Kelly went to the hospital today. So JAR’s 4 other lawyers can’t handle it? The timing of this is just too suspicious, but I hope I’m wrong and in that case, I hope Kelly is ok. Sounds like there’s a meeting Tues. to figure out what to do. Un-be-lievable….. :(

    1. @Kalista7,

      Oh no! That is truly terrible news! How long must the families of the dead wait for justice to be served?

    2. @Kalista7,

      Too bad Judge Darrow can’t just sentence the bastard to the maximum right now and be done with it after all these endless and needless delays.

      And absolutely, why can’t the other 4 handle it. Well, we all already know that they can’t. Neither could the 5 of them, so I don’t understand the reasoning for the holdup.

    3. @Kalista7,

      I’m not sure where you saw that exactly? I did a google search for everything I could think of that would bring something up about this, but nothing. And all the latest news reports are announcing that the trial is going ahead with JAR’s (now only 19) witnesses, all of which have just been released in the last hour or less (the news releases, not the witnesses, although that wouldn’t be too surprising! lol) as of this writing.

      1. @Bonnie,

        OK, update 7:30 AM (Arizona time)

        UPDATE 7:30 a.m.- Today’s scheduled mitigation hearing in the case of James Ray has been vacated for undisclosed reasons. Details to follow.


        And sorry, Kalista, but I don’t feel sorry for Kelly, no matter what’s wrong with him, if that’s what it is — he’s just as evil as JAR and I believe would kill without remorse just as easily. After all, neither he nor any of the other JAR lawyers have nor had any empathy for the loss of any of JAR’s victims or their families or any of the many victims still alive and suffering. They proved that throughout the trial. Cold and cold hearted as JAR himself.

        1. @Bonnie, Re: Kelly, good point. I did notice he looked terrible towards the end of the trial. But still, this timing is way too suspicious. The DT was determined to do anything to delay this. They are like children, who get mad when they don’t get their way.

          FB people are calling hospitals in the area to try and confirm if he truly went to the hospital. I think he lives in Prescott. If anyone finds out, please post.

          Connie’s Facebook page (Tragedy in Sedona) usually has all the latest news.

          1. @Kalista7,

            I thought he looked just as terrible at the start of the trial! LOL

            And if something is really wrong with him, I guess JAR will be able to help him figure out just what he did to “attract” this to himself — since JAR (and all the other new age Goo-rus) teaches that everything that happens to you, including your health, is something that you attracted to yourself with your thoughts and actions. Funny JAR can’t seem to figure out that what attracted all this to himself was “greed”, because he’s still out there chasing after all the “greed” — some people just never learn. Not to mention, since he also teaches that you can heal yourself with your thoughts, I wonder why he has to take valtrex for his herpes, and why he has to use products like rogaine and other medications for his balding head. And didn’t they say he also had viagra in that immense arenal of drugs that the man who preached that you should always go natural and leave drugs behind was taking? He sure didn’t look too well after those few days in jail without his steroids — maybe his “thoughts” were on vacation or something.

            Yes, that man deserves to be behind bars alright — because his actions since the death lodge (and even before, with Colleen’s death) clearly show that he has learned absolutely nothing from all of this. Maybe he’s trying to attract a death sentence of his own in the future. Yep, I can see that.

        2. @Bonnie ::

          So Tim Brownson is a nice person :: but Tom Kelly is just as evil as Death Ray?

          I think not.

          I doubt TK would fake an illness for JAR :: cause he wouldn’t be able to bill for it.

          1. @SD,

            I was not the one who said this “hospital episode” looked suspicious — I’m just saying what I think of the man after what I saw in the courtroom of how he treated witnesses for the prosecution, “most especially” how he treated and tore apart the family of the victims (as did all of the defense team).

            1. @Bonnie ::

              Yeah :: I thought it was pretty horrid too … obviously.

              But we’ve only seen Mr. Kelly being a lawyer … not being a person. It’s a show … and he was not in charge of the show.

              All of the responsibility for the content of the show falls on Brad Brian and Luis Li :: attorneys at law for Rhonda Byrne. TK and TD and MS were all just doing what they were told.

              So I’m sure we all hope Tom feels better or whatever.

          2. @SD, I noticed the article mentions that Tom Kelly is 58. Frankly, I thought he looked considerably older than that during the trial and found that information surprising. That is also relatively young for heart trouble.

            1. @nancy, @SD

              Ok, I just read the update — and I’m sorry for being a bit of a naysayer, but I now agree with Kalista about this being too suspicious. I mean, they tried so hard to get the delay and failed and then “this” comes up? And he’s “in good spirits, surrounded by family and friends and looks forward to returning to work soon”? Sorry, but I’m not buying it. And all they say is he “suffered a heart ailment over the weekend”? Probably heartburn, if anything at all.

              And yes, I’m still an old softy — but this is just too much. I’m sorry Judge Darrow fell for it. They’re probably all laughing themselves silly that they got away with it. Why couldn’t the other 4 have handled it indeed.

            2. @nancy, Well, according to his website,Thomas K Kelly graduated from NAU (my alma mater) in 1974. This would peg him right around 58, assuming he didn’t spend a year or so hitchhiking around Europe and getting high. White Pages also lists a Thomas K Kelly in Prescott in the age range 55-59. One can only surmise that his line of work is taxing, not only in the dedication and hours involved, but also in the offending and upsetting of good people, all for a paycheck.

            3. @nancy, Not to mention aligning yourself with one scumbag after another for $$$ and pretending to be on their side: Worst acting gig ever.

  16. This one got my throat for some reason:

    “As it was, the jurors heard mountains of evidence in the case. Ripley said that by the time deliberations began, he had filled seven notebooks, and all the others also had copious notes.

    To see about the sincerity and thoughtfulness in the responsibility to the legal system.

  17. This whole thing regarding support for James Ray is stupid. Completely stupid.

    Looks like James Ray has been busy tweeting up a storm this month. How crass and callous to write line after line of niceties, and loving words of wisdom, as though it’s business as usual after killing 4 people. How absolutely sad for those family members reading those lines that are tweeted by him.

    The Jesus line about loving your enemies, just about made me puke. The line is beautiful, but in the context of the line coming from a killer that will not admit his responsibility for his killings, is beyond belief. I think the Bible also says: “Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.” Proverbs something or other.

    For people who support James Ray, I can only think of 2 reasons why: either they don’t know the case and are ignorant of the details, or they have some vested interest in James Ray continuing to spout off niceties.

    I could understand support for him, if he acknowledged personal responsibility in these 4 deaths . But I do not understand this.

    1. @KG,

      3rd reason — some people can just not admit that they were wrong and made a mistake about someone or something, no matter what the hard evidence that comes up, especially after they have spent a literal fortune on that someone or something.

  18. You are the fucking man. How did u score a blog channel on youtube?

    Hilarious hahaha. I was watching Alasandra’s video from your page and under it said: As seen on salty droid ahahahaha. The video has since been unlisted.

    Salty FTW!

      1. @Bonnie, Plus some fake dates, it appears! I mean, look at all the letters where the person (or somebody, lol) signed their name, then printed the date after the signature. DUH!!!

        1. @Kalista7, From Linda on Facebook: “As a former English instructor and copyeditor who has studied patterns in writing in English, I find it interesting that most of the letters in support of JAR follow similar patterns of sentence construction and levels of vocabulary. Although I have not technically analyzed these letters, it does make you wonder who really wrote them.”

          1. @Anonymous ::

            I’ll tell you who wrote them …

            People who practiced writing their praises of James Arthur Ray and his “philosophies” over and over and over and over … like POW’s in North Korea.

            Like the fucking sludge of notebooks and journals and 3×5 cards that Lynn Graham had to clean up after it all became too much for Colleen Conaway.

    1. @Kalista7,

      Thanks for providing the link.

      Holy fucking BORING batman. Well, 98% of it was so boring I had to skim it. But 2% was very, very interesting and answered the question I had about, why people still support James Ray.

      There’s the “Don’t Have A Clue Crowd”. These are people that have had positive outcomes from reading books or attending seminars and don’t know the details about the homicides.

      Then there’s the “Victims Are Responsible For Their Choices” crowd, that touts the idea of sole responsibility. The most stupid letter I read regarding this, was by Charlene D from Toronto. She says that she frequently has a saying for her children: “If you come home dead, I don’t care who’s fault it was”. Nice mother. I doubt she’d be singing that same tune if her child was hit by a drunken driver. These people are simply looney tunes. We are responsible for own selves, of course, but we also need to become self-responsible when we harm other people.

      Then there are the “Who Gives A Shit About The Victims” crowd, like James Ray’s mother. Her last line reads: “The Sweat Lodge incident was an anathema to the very core of his (James’) being”. Gee, mom, at least other letters described the “incident” as a “horrific tragedy”. And an anathema to James? How about an anathema to Kirby’s family, and Liz’ family, and James’ wife and kids? It is very clear to me, after reading this stupid statement written by his mother (and is the only statement regarding the “incident”), how James Ray could continue to refuse to take responsibility for his actions.

      Then there’s the “Beyond Looney” crowd. Like Carrie Christensen who writes: “it was her (Liz’) time to fly …. soar” (talking about Liz’ death). ???????????????????????? There’s medication for these kinds of people.

      Then there’s the “But Judge, He Is Truly Remorseful” crowd. This was a common theme. Dennis Merzel, Suz Webster, John Ferriter, etc., etc. stated it. Ward Smith laid it on really thick: “his remorse is paralyzing and his conscience is guilt-ridden”. Okay stupid people. Do you know what remorse is? It’s feeling really bad when you have harmed someone. Okay, stupid people. Do you know what James Ray has been teaching? TAKE FUCKING ACTION IN YOUR LIFE. Remorse means shit when you’re crying to someone about how bad things are and what you’ve done. Remorse means something when you stand up and say: “I harmed these people and I am willing to take responsibility for my mistakes, my lack of judgement and not helping these people when they needed it the most. I’m sorry (insert names of family members of Kirby, Liz and James as well as those who were permanently injured) that my actions harmed you and your loved ones”. Fucking crocodile tears. That’s what was shed during James’ expression of remorse to his friends. If he was remorseful and showed self responsibility, he would not have let his lawyers blame the wood or the ants or the tarp or fire tender, on the harm he himself had caused. If he was remorseful, he would have pled guilty to a lesser charge from the get go (plea deal?) and there would not have needed to be a trial possibly.

      The last crowd is the “Indignant” crowd. These people are the most pukable. Don Pelham is one: ““I believe if they could speak now (Kirby, Liz and James), they would be appalled by what is being done to James not to mention all of the people and family who have lost their jobs or contracts that were employed by James”.

      Hey Don, it’s really, really disrespectful of the dead, to interject what you believe they would be thinking and saying. Why the fuck don’t you go and read a site called and maybe find out what Kirby’s family thinks she would be thinking and saying right about now. Idiot.

      I’m sure that was a snooze fest for Judge Darrow.

      Can anyone post a link for the letters submitted by the State?

      Anyway, I want to end my blurb with prayers for the families of Kirby, Liz and James. May they find peace and comfort in the weeks ahead.

    2. @Kalista7 ::

      Wow! That is scary and crazy. I can’t believe they published those … there’s tons of damning information if you look close enough.

      Here’s Alex Smyth … surely talking about Jeff Adshead …

      In my role as accountant I also witnessed personally when James donated a meaningful sum of money on more than one occasion to charitable and non-profit organizations. One such organization is teenage leadership academy based in Seattle. The participants study a wide range of materials including James Ray’s books. The young people develop their own service projects and travel to under-developed areas like Africa and Southeast Asia to help people in need.

      … money money money

      1. @SD,

        One of the letters that was quite nausea-producing said:

        ” As a personal friend of Liz Newman who entered that sweat lodge willingly for the third or fourth time to help others experience the joy she had received from studying, growing and releasing past negativity with James I urge you to let him off lightly.”

        Why? Because he said James is sad and “lost three good friends that day”.

        This reminds me of the old saw about the guy who killed his parents and then begged the judge for leniency because he was an orphan.

  19. Another disappointing aspect of this case is post the mitigation hearing and sentencing JAR may well remain jail free during appeal filings.

    Anything new on the civil suits or have these been quietly settled to avoid media coverage?

    1. @Bethann ::

      I haven’t heard about any settlements since the Angel Valley settlements.

      Personally :: I hope there won’t be any settlements signed that contain non-disclosure agreements.

    2. @Bethann, WTF? A murderer remaing free while waiting for appeal even though he is sentenced to 9 yrs (hopefully). I never knew that could happen.

  20. I’ve been reading on and off for almost a year now and this will be my first comment.

    I follow some of the syndicate players just to see what the newest scam is in town at any given point, and without fail your take on things is always refreshing. I read, I enjoy, I sometimes pass it around, but for the most part I come to get different insights and to laugh my ass off. Not unlike reading The Onion, only with more direct actionable intelligence.

    But I simply couldn’t help myself on this one… how has no one commented on the Rosemary’s baby line yet?!?!

    Fucking classic!

    Droid, you’re consistently bringing the smart and the funny – but that line and the ensuing laughter nearly woke my ex-wife up… and she lives in a different time zone.

    Great work here, keep it up!

  21. I can’t believe James Ray is mailing swipe copy for a Numerologist …

    Here JAR’s email just now …

    I recently was introduced to a great website that could quite possibly change your life forever. It’s about numerology–the science of numbers–and how they influence virtually every single aspect of your life.

    I’ve studied and been interested in numerology for years; and while it might be easy to be skeptical… if it was good enough for Pythagoras (the father of mathematics), it’s good enough for me. Besides… even modern science now tells us that the entire Universe is built upon geometry and numbers.

    So, I signed up, and got my free 14-page numerology reading within minutes. I have to tell you… it was absolutely spot on in its insights to me–I mean right on the money!

    It nailed my personality to a “T”, revealing things about me that I don’t share with anyone–even some of my closest friends! It was so accurate that it was actually beyond belief.

    But don’t take my word for it…because now you can get a complete 14-page numerology reading, revealing more about you than you ever dreamed possible… absolutely free

    Saltydroid, if you have any part of your life that isn’t going the way you want… if you have concerns, fears or hopes about your finances, career, love-life, relationships, or health…

    Here’s Bob Proctor a couple of days ago …

    I recently found a great website that could change your life forever. It’s about numerology – the science of numbers and their influence upon virtually every aspect of your life.

    I must admit I was a little skeptical at first…but I signed up, got my free 17-page numerology reading within minutes, and I have to admit I was absolutely stunned.

    It nailed my personality to a “T”, revealing things about myself that I don’t share with *anyone*. It was so accurate it was scary!

    But don’t take my word for it…because now you can get a complete 14-page numerology reading, revealing more about yourself than you ever dreamed possible… absolutely free.

    If you have any part of your life that isn’t going the way you want… if you have concerns, fears or hopes about your finances, career, love-life, relationships, or health…

    If you have any curiosity at all about where you will be in 3, 4, and 5 years from now… about how to eliminate the bad, increase the good and take control of and master your destiny… your answers are waiting for you!

    It’s completely free, and what you learn may change your life forever!

    Get your free numerology reading here

    Yours in Numbers,
    Bob Proctor

    Who else is mailing for this? Who is the affiliate manager?

    1. @SD,

      I guess thats the numerology site so someone is probably raising capital off some poor suckers to create more crap and they are likely doing the usual thing of hiding behind unit trusts and trusts, try to remain nameless and have a one way bank account when it all finally and inevitably goes belly up, they wont be found.

      Is this the person involved?

      Just the latest dicey scam in my view.

      1. @anon,

        Here’s some information about Blair Gorman that’s not too surprising:

        “He is a NLP Master Practitioner who has done his masters in Numerology with honors”

        A Master’s degree in numerology, and to think people used to joke about courses in basket weaving.

  22. I’m starting to think quite a few support letters are completely fake. For instance, Suzanne Lettested wrote the following: (maybe)

    “However. I’m a fan of CNN and was shocked by seeing you in chains or whatever. I made some research about the whole Sedona accident. Then I decided to give you my support. I’m not going to back on that one. I am a journalist by profession…I am writing on a novel and a movie script.”

    A journalist by profession and she writes that she “made some research”? And that she’s writing “on a novel”?

    I also notice the constant use of the word accident in these letters. It almost seems as if they received a memo on how to write a mitigation plea.

    1. @Barbara ::

      I’d be pretty effing shocked if any of them were fake … that would be a massive risk for MTO to take for almost no pay off.

      They are just full of epic amounts of delusion. So scary amounts of delusion.

      I recognized more than half of the names.

    2. @Barbara,

      It almost seems as if they received a memo on how to write a mitigation plea.

      In my single experience writing such a character letter, that was exactly the case. The defense attorney’s memo listed the judge’s name and courtroom, so the letters could be addressed properly, and the law firm’s address where the letters were being collected. The letter was supposed to relate specific actions demonstrating the person’s good character, but it was not supposed to be too long. The instructions said not to claim the person was innocent or recommend a specific sentence.

      Flipping through the letters, those don’t seem to be the instructions Munger, Tolles & Olson issued, though. There’s lots of “To whom it may concern,” rambling personal narratives barely touching on JAR, and a plea for probation from Richard Sandore. Many of the letters are dated 2010. Did people really write all these to be considered at the sentencing, or were some of them marketing-type testimonials co-opted for the courtroom? Do you think some might be “what did you get out of the class” writing exercises co-opted for the courtroom?

      I’m curious what @SD and other legal minds have to say about this, since I’m just comparing it to my one personal experience.

      1. @Lanna,

        It does seem that some of these letters were fan letters of the “I loved your book/ movie/free lecture” type and had not been sent in connection with the tragedy in Arizona.

        I suppose they’re going for the quantity over quality effect and presenting as many friendly voices as possible.

        I found Merzel’s letter exceedingly strange. The first couple of paragraphs seemed to be for the purpose of Merzel asserting his own supremacy in the guru biz, taking pains to establish that Ray studied with Merzel not Merzel with Ray. “He has done two of these intensives with me..”

        Then after the usual boilerplate about Ray’s compassion and wisdom he states “Not very many awakened individuals in our time have gone through such a great fall and this makes him extremely valuable”. He then says after someone reaches a “level of awareness” there is a tendency toward ego inflation and that the magnitude of Ray’s fall from grace allowed Ray “to become grounded once again in the reality of everyday life”.

        In other words Merzel is stating that there was a time that Ray was not grounded in the reality of everyday life. Another way of phrasing it would be to say Ray was mentally unbalanced…a crazy fucker with an outsized ego…but Merzel is sure now that JAR’s enormous ego has been (somewhat) deflated he’s good to go back into the business of “serving others”. This is incredible. Talk about damning with faint praise.

        He signs his letter “Zen Master Dennis Genpo Merzel”. In his dreams…

        1. @Barbara,

          Exactly. This particular letter also caught my attention for all of the reasons you mention above.

          You wrote: “(Merzel takes) pains to establish that Ray studied with Merzel not Merzel with Ray”. One narcissist supporting another narcissist.

          The fall from grace line also got my attention for another reason. Sure, people make mistakes, and the “higher” (whatever the hell that means) they climb, the harder they fall. But what a crazy assumption to believe that “such a great fall …. makes him extremely valuable”. It’s only valuable, if his “rise” from out of his “fall from grace” is enmeshed with honesty and integrity. Here’s what I think a true rise would look like: after crying on the shoulders of his friends, he could fire his lawyers and take his lumps from the judge, accept responsibility in front of those he has harmed. If he wants to “rise” really high, he can go on the road and lecture to people about how ginormous egos can kill people, and all of the proceeds of those lectures can be donated to the SEEK foundation created by Kirby’s family.

          Fall from grace and his extreme value after his fall …. my ass.

    3. @Barbara,

      Suzanne Lettested seems like a fake.

      A Google search for the phrase “Suzanne Lettested” has zero results. It’s hard to imagine a real journalist who doesn’t exist on the web at all.

      1. @Just Jake,

        Oddly enough Suzanne was one of many, many people who wrote multiple letters. In another missive of hers she says she is Swedish which would explain the odd language usage and her seeming anonymity.

        I would not have mentioned her errors in expressing herself had I known English is not her first language. It makes me rather ashamed…God knows my Swedish language skills are not nearly as good as her English ability is. I’ve only progressed to the level of the Swedish Chef from the Muppets. I can now say Cårven Der Pümpkîn.

  23. Speaking of turds, I got a call from some outfit called Magnetic Millionaires out of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I reported their ass to the FTC since my phone number is on the national Do Not Call List.

    I think they broke some Federal law by calling my number despite it being on the Do Not Call list. Maybe Droid can look up the law for us.

    Note to Scammers – Don’t screw with a Capricorn Moon. We don’t forgive and we don’t forget.

        1. @SD,

          That review is something EVERYONE should read, most especially (and even if) they can’t read Connie Joy’s book, “Tragedy in Sedona”. I really hope that the proscecution has read (hopefully both!), but I would most definately love it if Judge Darrow reads or has read them — “before” the sentencing!

          Great work, LaVaughn! And great work, Connie Joy! This sadistic bastard does not deserve to walk around free among humans (or even animals!).

    1. @nancy,

      The link didn’t work for me but I’m assuming it’s this article:

      “After an attorney’s health emergency shattered the scheduling of James Arthur Ray’s presentence hearings, Judge Warren Darrow decided to get the proceedings back on track beginning next week, despite a defense request for a longer delay.”

      “To say that Tom Kelly has to make all the decisions,” Darrow said during a telephonic scheduling hearing Tuesday, “is just too much.”

      “Li said he thought Kelly would be medically cleared to return to work next week but could not be certain. His request for more time included a plea to allow Kelly time to recover fully and finish what he started. That request prompted Yavapai County Attorney Sheila Polk to remind the court of the significant date that would occur if the proceedings went on much longer: On Oct. 8, 2009, Ray led a sweat lodge ceremony at the Angel Valley Spiritual Retreat Center near Sedona that resulted in the heat-related deaths of Kirby Brown, James Shore and Liz Neuman. Polk said Tuesday that many of the victims’ family members were planning memorials to commemorate the two-year anniversary of the tragic event.”

      “It certainly is a worthwhile goal to accomplish the sentencing before that date,” Polk said.

      It starts a week from today, on the 28th. Good for Sheila Polk, reminding the court of the anniversary of the three deaths that are the heart of this entire case. It doesn’t seem like two years to me, somedays it feels like it just happened.

    1. @Barbara, Yes they are. I hope the judge holds his ground on these dates. But with all the goofy delays, I’m afraid to have expectations any more. PRAYERS for JUSTICE for the families on Oct. 6th!!

  24. It’s good to see Judge Darrow pulling tight on the reins at this point.

    I recall Li, (DT), being granted a two week vacation during the trial, and at that point CNN dropped it’s live feed and moved on.

    1. @Bethann ::

      Maybe CNN could pick the story back up starting with the fact that the agent of their biggest ever star … John Ferriter … is on this motherfucking list … and is in that pile of “please spare Death Ray” letters.

      Fuck you John Ferriter … you sell out … cop out … bitch.

  25. Just got an email from Bob Proctor asking “have you ever felt like giving up”

    um …. no!

    But I wish he would. The fact that he has had the gall to support James Ray in this case means that I will no longer listen to ANYTHING that Bob Proctor says. If a guy like him can support someone like James Ray after the results of his actions then they are not a person I want anything to do with.

    Cheers and good luck Mr Proctor.

    1. @nancy, Are you kidding? A sociopath cannot apologize. His brain does not possess that cognitive category. He is posing. Again. Following the advice of human beings who know how to behave appropriately. The devil is in the details: Ray claims he’s tried to reach the families of the victims but hasn’t been allowed to communicate with them. Bullshit. We all know he never tried when he had the chance. And that opportunity existed over a long time period. Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. So shut the *%@# up James Ray. We know who and what you are.

      1. @Jean D, I wasn’t kidding — I was being sarcastic. No doubt his statements were only made on the advice of his attorneys.

        1. @nancy, I figured you were. And I was responding to the mere image of an “apologetic” Death Ray. BTW great postings!

      2. @Jean D,

        Right. The only “remorse” JAR ever showed or felt was when he cried his crocodile tears on stage that first free seminar he gave right after the murders — he cried, “this is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me!” — the worst thing that’s ever happened to “ME”!!!! — he had no remorse or care for anyone else but himself then and never will — he was only remorseful for himself (if he’s even capable of that — it seems his only loves are money and being idolized).

    2. @nancy,

      Correct, it’s a mitigation tactic. The judge will probably consider the fact that it only came after the verdicts just before sentencing [[after the state asked for 9 years]].

      As a mock Judge, I would look at his “remorse” with everything else he has done and hasn’t done. The white papers which lay blame on everyone but himself [[one fact…he had the ability to stop….he did not]], not giving people there money back and compensation without them having to take him to court to do so, he did not visit his “students” in the hospital, he did not stick around to make sure everyone was alright, and no apologies.

      The guy is a manipulator, of course he is going to say what he needs to say to stay out of prison.

    3. @nancy, As you know, this “apology” is FAKE and no doubt just a suggestion from his lawyers. Lies, lies and more lies. And now from the media’s goofy articles. :(

    4. @nancy,

      Thanks for the link. Doesn’t this comment sum it all up perfectly?

      “He abandoned his followers when they needed him the most,” said Neuman’s son, Bryan. “He has shown absolutely no remorse, no compassion and no humanity. I didn’t know monsters like Mr. Ray even really existed until after this tragedy.”

      Imagine strolling off to a nice shower and a ham sandwich while your “dear friends” were taken to hospital emergency rooms and others to the morgue. He didn’t even have the basic human decency to identify the injured, Liz Neuman was a Jane Doe.


    5. @nancy,

      Thank you for the link.

      And now James wants to save his ass, the one not worth saving.

      Snipped …

      Ray told the probation officer that he was responsible for the sweat lodge but that he is not a threat to society. He said he wanted to apologize to the victims’ families but he hasn’t been allowed to contact them, nor did he think it was appropriate to do so at an earlier time.

      Throughout the trial, Ted Mercer was blamed for carrying the hot rocks into the sweat lodge, AVR for constructing it, as well as rat poison and organophosphates for causing the deaths … liar.

      And to the family he ignored, left to die or left alone in a hospital on life support … another lie.

  26. I’m the husband of one of the Deathlodge survivors who was taken to the hospital that evening. This is my first comment on this world-class production that is Salty. Salty has bigger cojones than the next 50 of any of us and he has helped a lot of people see the shitstorm of polished turds that Deathray has squatted out. He’s my hero and I am not worthy.

    I wanted to say something about the community surrounding Deathray as I have a bird’s eye view of it. I know so many of them are victims of denial and delusion, but I also wanted to point out something to everyone. The community itself practices the same MLM fraud and delusional NLP Harmonic Horseshit “coaching” that relieves people of their money as quickly as Ray. They helped create Ray and they continue to practice the very things he did and does. And it’s not just a couple of people. It’s pervasive across the community. Many of these people may mean well but they are hawking the same type of “frauducts and flopportunities” as Deathray does and it’s sickening. The man’s biggest supporters are his followers who delude themselves into thinking they’re doing something for humanity when they are actually fucking people over in just the same way. It’s this that’s most disturbing in all of this. They actually think they’re doing good in the world. And they are just as dangerous.

    Thanks for letting me comment, and most of all thanks for all the great work you do, Salty. If there’s any doubt that you help people I’m here to testify: you do a great service to all of us.

    1. @Jeffrey,

      First of all, I’m glad that your wife survived this horrific crime and I cannot imagine what you must have gone through…what an ordeal.

      And you’re right in saying the community that supports him shares in his guilt. I think the facade of “helping” people that they maintain is just a poorly done attempt to assuage a guilty conscience. I truly wonder how many of these people if on their deathbeds would not repent of their involvement with Ray and his schemes and scams. (not including the true sociopaths and psychopaths among them)

      We’re all grateful for the work SD does. It restores my faith in humanity…I mean the humans that built this droid.*ahem*

    2. @Jeffrey ::

      You make a great point about me being awesome {thanks!} :: but your other point is really good too.

      I’ll bet people’s continued attachment to Ray after the Death Lodge correlates quite precisely to their level of MLM commitment. LGAT and MLM are about as toxic a combo as I can possibly imagine. It also helps to contextualize a lot of the law of attraction stuff if you think about it in a mostly MLM setting. Just believe … and will happen … is not a totally stupid and pointless message in MLM like it is in real life. Envisioning things as they aren’t … willing things that shouldn’t be into existence … those are the required skills to sell other nice people lies.

      All of the worst trolls around here are protecting their uplines :: not their philosopher kings.

      Death Ray relied far more on the MLM unicorn than he did on Oprah or Larry King.

      1. @SD,

        I am seeing Barbara’s MLM experience shared on the new Naomi post … and now seeing it mentioned here.

        I did not realize that MLM is so pervasive among the folks chronicled here.

        Is the reason that so many MLM’s are based out of UTAH for the same reason that the Boiler Rooms are there (laws and people in authority that protect the scam?)

        I always thought that it was because LDS people were more susceptible to the scam so they all began there and spread outward.

        1. @RT,

          I think you have me confused with Bonnie. I have no firsthand experience with MLM. My only brush with scamming came when my dentist tried to hardsell me on a kangen water system. I quit that dentist. Problem solved.

          1. @Barbara,

            Well done. That’s the most effective way of dealing with pyramid sellers. The second most effective way is to listen carefully and assume everything you hear about the product is a lie and then leavfe. The third most effective way is to accept it provisionally and then try to find a reliable, independent source of information about it.

            That’s not easy as many frauducts these days have sentences like “is this a scam?” to catch people googling for “product + scam.”

            For example the Kangen water scammers use CNN’s promo piece on them by titling it “Scam or not?”


            This site:

            however points out, among other things that:
            “Ionized water” is nothing more than sales fiction; the term is meaningless to chemists. Pure water (that is, water containing no dissolved ions) is too unconductive to undergo signficant electrolysis by “water ionizer” devices.

            My apologies to those who are reading this, who are still a part of this scam. Now you have no more excuses.

            1. @Yakaru,

              Disclaimer: I once got sucked into an MLM by well meaning and sincere friends. I accepted all of the “facts” I heard on good faith. It was all told to me in good faith too. Luckily I suck totally at selling and gave up fairly quickly. This was in the days before the internet, so it was only years later that I found out that virtually all of the “facts” were pure barefaced lies.

    1. @Kalista7,

      So Li has a board of trustees meeting at the school his children attend, I presume. Wow, that is some hefty tuition! $23,550 for kindergarten through sixth grade, uniforms cost extra and there is a one time only(thank God!) fee of $2,000 for being a new student.

      Now I see why he babbled himself hoarse for seven hours in his closing argument, Ray must be expecting a lot for his money. Personally I hope Ray will be as disappointed in what his money bought as were all those who were bilked at his events. Does anyone know the dollar amount of Ray’s legal fees?

      I’m just curious if he kept a little Li or two in school and in uniforms.

    2. @Kalista7,

      Oh, I wish this would all just backfire on these jerks and Judge Darrow just says, “Enough! Nine years commencing right now!”

      They all knew the trial dates were coming up and they could have submitted their “conflict dates” BEFORE the trial dates were actually set. This is all just more games. Just like Tom Kelly with his fake heart trouble (which we’ve never heard exactly what it was because it was exactly nothing).

      1. @Bonnie, You & me both. Unfortunately, I just saw this post on Twitter from Sharon Lindenburger: “Looks like the Defence Team succeeded yet again in getting a delay in #jamesray sentencing. Darrow sure is nice to them.” I can hardly believe what I’m reading. This feels like it will never end. So sorry for the families. This is just plain WRONG.

        1. @Kalista7,

          Ok, if that twitter ends up being true then I am even more convinced now that something just isn’t right with all this and Darrow — he’s either being paid off or he’s just on JAR’s side, for whatever reason. But something is just not right here and pretty much hasn’t been all along.

          1. @Bonnie, SIGH OF RELIEF…. Her bad. She confessed. She just read too fast. LOL. I guess we’re all on edge now. Thank God she was wrong!!!! I think I’ll get a glass of wine now!

  27. Getting caught up again after a long absence and so thankful to see you are all still on this– special thanks to you SD! The second anniversary is quickly approaching and I feel so much anger at the whole JAR operation. Someone needs to remind me that there is a huge karmic debt load amassing here– I am looking at you Megan/Justin/Josh whatever their names are, in addition to JAR and all of the idiots who are supporting this murderer.

    Some years ago I worked in a professional capacity with convicted criminals, sex offenders mostly, and even so, every now and then I would briefly see something that reminded me why the people who still loved them, still loved them. I have never seen that spark with JAR. I see a cold, unfeeling money generating machine, selfish, amoral, and narcissistic beyond my comprehension. His coldness is disturbing. I hear talk of his charisma, it does not translate to media available to me.

    My heart breaks for all who trusted him and were hurt so deeply. I don’t know any “normal” person who does not have some vulnerability. It never occurred to me that someone would make money exploiting this common trait. I hope that whoever is in charge of our lives can grant the families of those who died some peace and I thank you for letting us walk with you and for trusting us enough to share your feelings. For those who faced financial problems as a result of their involvement with JAR, I hope you are able to pick up the pieces and take comfort in the fact you are now free and this will not happen to you again– thank you for sharing your experience! For those who faced emotional injury, I hope you realize you are not to blame, you have in fact been victimized by a monster bully.

    Apparently I needed to rant, and thank you to those who read this for doing so. This man is a monster. I hope and pray he can never harm anyone again. And Salty? Keep doing what you do, it’s working!

      1. @Geesaz,

        Love thy enemy, forgive thy brother AND send him to jail for 9 years so he doesn’t hurt anyone else. These ideas are not mutually exclusive.

  28. Here’s proof, as if we needed it, that Ray is the same self-involved, entitled, conceited egomaniac he’s always been.

    “If sentenced to probation, Ray has asked that he be allowed to carry it out in California where he and his parents live. His risk of reoffending was listed as medium to low in the presentence report.”

    He’s not even been sentenced yet and he’s already expressing his desires. Because it’s all about him, of course. He’s also expressed his desire to get back in business, minus the sweat lodges. But he proved with Colleen Conaway’s death that he has more than one death-dealing technique up his sleeve. Why would any judge give this unrepentant psychopath the chance to kill again?

    I don’t think the families of his victims see his risk of reoffending as medium to low. He’s made his contempt for other people quite clear. He will do whatever it takes to try to rebuild his brand if he’s released.

    I hope Judge Darrow is listening carefully to all of the voices representing the dead and injured victims of James Arthur Ray and gives him the maximum sentence.

    1. @Barbara,

      Not only that, but I never really noticed when I read that before — he’s doing his “subliminal suggestion” techniques when he says “if sentenced to probation” — he’s trying to plant a thought in Judge Darrow’s mind. Sneaky little bastard! I hope the prosecution notices that and points it out and why.

      1. @Bonnie, JAR can be as sneaky as he likes but either way this judgement will have him running for cover. If he ends up in a cell then he’ll by running for cover from his cellmates and if he ends up walking he be running for cover from the fury being forced upon him continuously from everyone he wronged. There is NO way out of this for him and neither should there be.

        His attempt at saying sorry is an ADMISSION that he did wrong therefore he is culpable just as everyone claims he is. Whether he is willing to take the medicine or not is another story. I doubt it, I think he will be complaining forever that he has been dealt a low blow.

        Other perdevex’s (personal development experts) as they frequently like to call themselves should be thanking their lucky stars that nobody suicided or died while being taught by them ……………… or have they? Whatever the case you can be assured that they will NEVER admit any part in their results. That is what I find particularly evil in all of this personal development crap.

        So much of the facts about personal development has been twisted, re-gigged, redrawn, regurgitated because they knew they had to change it a little bit to make it look like their own work. BULLSHIT is the product they produced to sell people and then they learnt NLP (Neuro Linquistic Programming) deliberately to sell that BULLSHIT to the public.

        Thats what makes this pure evil. So for those affected by assholes like JAR they need some justice and in one way or another it will come and to give back to these assholes like they gave, it will come back to them but not in the way that they gave it, in some other way when they least expect it.

  29. From Connie: “It’s official. The judge granted a continuance to the defense. Next conference meeting to discuss rescheduling is set for Monday Sept 26 at 3 PM.”

    Let’s all pray for the families…. This is BEYOND ridiculous. :(

    1. @Solar Flare (formerly k7),


      I told you there was something fishy going on between Darrow and this case.

      Those poor victims families and friends, plus all the other numerous victims of that hummungous JAR of sh!t!

  30. I’m beginning to wonder if this stalling isn’t Judge Darrow’s way out of the next murder trial he is to preside over.

    Two judges have retired, no replacements, and those left are in overload.

    Darrow appeared exhausted throughout the JAR trial.

    1. @Bethann,

      Could be, although he seems to me to be a ditherer. The odd times when he tells the defense they’re full of it is when things have become so extreme that he couldn’t be bothered dithering anymore.

      I guess it’s better than someone who was strongly in favor of the defense. I think he’s just learned over the years not to give a shit. At least the prosecution has been better than could have been hoped for.

      1. @Yakaru, I agree. I had to look up that word, LOL…

        But what is the time limit JAR can stay free after being convicted? What’s the law? Can the Defense keep scheduling “important meetings” to avoid this? Can these delays go on indefinitely so that JAR is free for Christmas??? SD? Anyone?

        I’m having NO more expectations on this case, no matter how many dates they set.

        I say: Enough is enough!!!!!!

        1. @Solar Flare,

          I almost hate to admit this, but at times I have almost wished some crazy person (or even not so crazy, but just fed up with this whole mess) would decide that they have been hurt enough by this bastard and this crazy almost circus of a trial and take the law into their own hands. I know that’s not the answer, and I hope no one would be fool enough to do it, but I have to say that I wouldn’t be even the least bit sad to hear of it — and that just shows you how someone who was not even involved with this poor excuse of a man in any way has been so affected. I think anyone following this from the beginning or reading the above review by LaVaughn linked by Salty above would feel and think the same — though not really hope it is actually done in reality. But this whole thing just sucks — and to think that this heartless conscienceless creep of a murderer is still walking free and maybe even will remain so while some poor soul is immediately jailed for stealing a loaf of bread to feed their kids is beyond understanding.

          1. @Bonnie, I hear what u are saying. Although if someone did snap & take things into their own hands u can bet that poor bastard would be hauled away & the wheels of “justice” would move much more swiftly than they did with JAR.

  31. Snipped from the link above:

    “Incarceration is useful when the person is dangerous to others, but James is the opposite,” said Jim Cathcart, of Newbury Park, Calif., who has known Ray for nearly 20 years. “He is a force for good. His decisions in this situation were a grave error, not an accurate reflection of his character. Please don’t put him into ‘the system’ and darken his soul.”


    People have been put away for far lesser crimes and how the hell can this be called JUSTICE if he gets away with it. No matter what sort of man he was, no matter how lovely he might have been, no matter how great he was as a partner, a father (is he one?), a friend, a teacher, a mentor, HE did this and was motivated to do it so HE MUST PAY FOR HIS CRIMES!

    If he gets away WHAT DO YOU TELL THE FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS???????? Oh sorry, he didn’t mean to do it. Just doesn’t cut it sorry, the man acted out of greed and went too far. There is a price to pay for that and its ok for his followers to feel sorry for him for having to pay that price but they seem unwilling to allow that to happen. While many other personal development gurus have done almost as bad things and are or will also pay for their crimes in JAR’s case it actually killed people, took their lives from them. 9 years is a very very small price to pay for such greed. Of course Ray wants to avoid a cell but those people never go the chance to avoid death……… perhaps some people need to see that side first, allow him to serve his 9 years and get on with their own lives. Perhaps some can’t live without JAR, now thats a scary thought.

  32. I’m beginning to wonder if Darrow had an unlimited budget for the trial and if so the Arizona taxpayers must be angry.

    I’m currently following the Murray trial, I live in CA, and budgets are tight in all divisions.

    Judge Pastor, Murray trial, is holding his courtroom tight as to testimony allowed at trial.

    News expected later today on the next plan of action for the JAR mess.

    1. @Bethann,

      I’m on pins and needles waiting for information on when sentencing for Death Ray will actually happen. It’s impossible to imagine the stress this is causing the families of Ray’s victims. Please post if/when you hear news.

      1. @Barbara,

        The whole trial has been going at snail’s pace. (Actually I shouldn’t mention snails, because I don’t think anyone checked for snail killer having been sprinkled around inside the sweat lodge(!!). Luis Li might file another mistrial motion.)

        Stoic, who comments here regularly, has been updating the (very interesting) JAR thread on the Rick Ross forum,77450,105427#msg-105427

        Incidentally, here’s another document from the prosecutors, tabling as evidence a whole lot of recent promo emails that Death Ray has been sending out. The longer this takes, the more chances JAR has to show the court his lack of remorse and his scamming methods.

          1. @Bonnie,

            I think that the fact that the prosecution is introducing JAR’s ongoing email campaign–selling the same old bullshit and his own fuckwit ‘leadership’ in implementing that bullshit (that has already had such catastrophic consequences for at least four of his trusting customers)–is significant to the question of whether JAR walks free to scam again, ‘business as usual’ or gets a stop put to his activities.

            His ongoing email campaign, promoting the same old dangerous bullshit–which is chosen, intentional behaviour–shows that nothing has changed in JAR, despite his sudden expressions of remorse and attempts at mitigation now that he faces jail-time.

            Talk is cheap, behaviour is the real indicator. The judge should bear that in mind when sentencing, so Yakaru’s second link is good news, not old news.

            1. @stoic,

              Yes, I do understand that it’s good news, Stoic — I was only going by the date on it, which was a week old — unless it was just introduced to the public at this time. But I truly do appreciate the link and I apologize for miscommunicating what I was trying to say. No news about this dreadful story is irrelevant or unnecessary to hear. I guess I just meant that we were all waiting for the latest news (now posted link by Nancy) and I was a bit disappointed that it wasn’t about the new trial dates. So sorry!

      2. @Barbara,

        I am as well Barbara. Scheduled time for the hearing is at 3:00pm PST which is this very moment.

        JAR needs to spend time in jail, it not only validates the family of the victims, but sends a clear cut message to these types of scammers.

        We’re watching, we’re warning and we’re discussing.

    1. @nancy,

      Thanks for the link. Damn, this is awful. Did you notice the latest request from Li?

      “As to the makeup of the pre-sentence hearings, Darrow has ruled that the state may present evidence and witnesses in an attempt to prove aggravating factors in addition to the jury-decided factor that Ray’s actions in the deaths of Brown, James Shore and Liz Neuman caused severe emotional harm to their families. That prompted Li to suggest that the state present its case first, as it must bear the burden of proof.”

      “Polk objected to that idea, saying that would require her witnesses, which include family members, to remain in Prescott for a longer period in order to be present for the sentencing itself.”

      That is just outrageous! The state presents last, isn’t that standard courtroom procedure? Darrow also made a point of saying Li’s vacation didn’t cause delays in the trial…sure, Judge, sure…like I believe that.

  33. The Daily Courier

    Snipped …

    “I’ve been fairly inundated with requests from families of other victims who are beside themselves with the delays,” Magnanini said Monday. “For them, (these proceedings) are the number one thing in their lives.”

    He said victims had asked him if there was a possibility of taking Ray into custody “if there’s a month or two delay in sentencing,” but Darrow did not respond to that notion.

    1. @Anon,

      Thanks for the update – “Ray’s sentencing set for Thursday”. I assume CNN means the hearing starts on Thursday(???). I also assume they are wrong to say Ray is facing 12 & a half years. Sadly, he’s facing only from probation to 9 & a half.

      1. @Yakaru, CNN is on top of things as usual. Somehow they are privy to a whole new set of facts in which the defense has waived its right to a mitigation hearing and we’ll be going straight to sentencing on Thursday despite Judge Darrow’s decision just last week that there would be no new dates set before 10/15. They’ve also discovered some legal loophole by which he can get more than the max allowed after the jury found only one aggravator. I wonder what this super-secret pipeline of information is that they’ve found. I bow to their superior journalistic prowess.

        1. @LaVaughn,

          I thought maybe they had some inside knowledge and had just screwed up every other detail. They have certainly maintained an extraordinarily high text/bullshit ratio throughout all this. For eight or ten lines, they got date wrong, the possible sentence wrong, and misrepresented the nature of the event and insulted the Native American community by glibly saying the sweat lodge was “modeled on Native American” practices. Also they needn’t have bothered badly summarizing the prosecution and defense arguments because that’s not news anymore. The only thing that matters is what the jury found him guilty of. Also, how the hell can they call him a “self-help expert”. I know the standards for such a title will necessarily be extremely low, but surely Ray has disqualified himself from such a title.

            1. @Solar Flare,

              I take that back…I thought it was CNN’s main twitter account…this is a case of the left ham not knowing what the right ham was told.

            2. @Solar Flare, I don’t think they do know. I think they’re just following this case with the same attention to fact and detail as they ever were — which is to say none.

        1. @SD, the Free Press is now “fringe media.” Nearly everything else seems to b either a) party organs, b) pure lurid exploitation, or c) wholly controlled by Oceania’s Ministry of Truth.

        2. @SD,

          Big boo-boo on the part of the media. But the guilty verdict expressed was the one that should have been reached. What a horrendous miscarriage of justice. Stolen justice is what that was. Off topic, I know.

  34. Anyone know anything about this — a “letter to Judge Darrow c/- Sheila Polk” tabled by the state. Ms Bivins has previously spoken out in the media in favor of Ray, and may have been active behind the scenes telling people not to cooperate with investigators (according to some witness testimony).

    Has she seen the light, or did she send Polk a letter of support for Ray independent of the (bizarre) actions of the defense?

      1. @SD,

        I’m sure Darrow has perfectly good legal reasons for that decision, the freaking bloody toothless old catfish, but it’s sickening watching Ray pull the wheels off the legal system while his supporters yowl that it’s an unfair trial while queuing up for their commission.

      2. @SD,

        Salty, I just hope someone is taking a good long look at how Judge Darrow has been living up to now — and keeps tabs on how he lives in the future — because I have a strange feeling that he’s getting paid off with some of those millions that JAR has hidden away. Just my humble opinion — but something is just not right with all this and hasn’t been since the start.

        1. @Bonnie, I don’t think so. He’s under scrutiny, will be under scrutiny, and he wouldn’t want to be on the other side of the bench. Not impossible, just extremely unlikely.

          His job is to follow the law, employ good reason, and not be swayed by the desires of external parties on either side of the fence. Not an easy position to be in.

          1. @Joe,

            “His job is to follow the law, employ good reason, and not be swayed by the desires of external parties on either side of the fence.”

            I’ll believe that when I see the 9 year jail sentence — not before and not unless. ;)

            1. @Bonnie,

              I think that Darrow is working hard to tie up any loose ends that might come up in the appeals—which will go on as long as DeathRay has the cash to pay for them.
              I guess we’ll be seeing how ‘bankrupt’ JAR really is.

              I don’t envy his (Darrow’s) position right now either.

    1. @nancy,

      “It has been up to Judge Warren Darrow to balance their constitutional rights as victims with Ray’s rights as a defendant.”

      Where the hell were the victims rights?? I think there should become a point in a trial where once guilt has been unquestionably established (not that it was even necessary in this case), the defendant should have as much rights as the victims — “none”.

      And I think naming the site “The Garden of Transformation” is an insult to the victims. Just my opinion. But I’d sure like to know what the family and friends of those gone and those still suffering think about it.

      1. @Bonnie,
        I agree with you Bonnie..I almost hate reading anything the Hamiltons have to say about the “Sweat Lodge” of 2009..It is so all about them and their “Lessons”… NO! It is about the people that were killed and injured in that toture chamber..Who cares what “lessons” the Hamitons learned really..Unless they get that they shouldn’t ever have any more “Sweat Lodges” on their property!

        1. @Anonymous & @Bonnie, I agree with you. It should be the victim’s families’ choice to name the site. And the Hamiltons do bear some responsibility, in my opinion. The “he did it again” remark shows that they were concerned about JAR’s lodges in the past. Why didn’t they take a stand with him like Connie did?? I believe they knew that lodge was hotter than the last one, so why did they allow it?? $$$ I guess?

          1. @Solar Flare, Yes I think it was the money..I think they got $100,000 from him plus the money for renting the “cabins” etc to his participants…

  35. Dateline ad last evening, JAR Sweat Lodge special to be aired 10/21.

    I believe this may be the expanded version originally scheduled to air post sentencing.

    It would appear the producer’s were fed up with waiting as well.

    1. @Bethann,

      I saw that. It was originally scheduled to run last week, which would have been right after the sentencing date had past, but once the sentencing date was cancelled, they cancelled that show too and replaced it with something else. I’m not sure why they are now recheduling it in before the sentence, or if that was just an airing mistake, but if they are going to run it, I sure hope Judge Darrow will be watching and listening — not that I have much hope at this time. The only hope I have left with him is that he surprise and shock us all by giving the maximum jail time allowed.

  36. Dateline ad last evening, JAR Sweat Lodge special to be aired 10/21.

    I believe this may be the expanded version originally scheduled to air post sentencing.

    It would appear the producer’s were fed up with waiting as well.

    1. @Bonnie,

      I wondered the same thing myself.

      [[sorry…laptop keeps posting via some unknown mechanism]]


      The recap does sound extremely damaging. It appears to have been a good day for the prosecution.

    1. @nancy,

      Yes, and isn’t it amazing that James can shed tears when his mother’s cancer is being mentioned, yet he had no tears let alone concern when so many of his so called “friends” were suffering and dying? Although I’d bet my last dollar that he isn’t even shedding tears for his mother — those tears are because he is scared like the coward he is of what his sentence is going to be — too bloody chicken sh!t to take responsibility for his actions and pay the penalty like a grown man. Me thinks he needs to do a few of his own retreat challenges in order to get rid of his fears — not that they would help — see Penn and Teller’s “Bullshit Self-Helpless” on Youtube for the long lasting phony results of these scams, if there are any results at all besides broken bones and other injuries plus loss of life.

  37. Connie says that JAR can cry at the drop of a hat. I do feel for his mother’s illness, but I believe he’s using that situation to manipulate the judge’s feelings to try and get out of being sentenced. She has her husband and I’m sure they have many friends who can help.

    IMHO, it’s just another one of many endless distractions to try and diminish the fact that 4 people died, many more were injured (some permanently) and JAR could have prevented it!

    1. @Solar Flare,

      Yes, in true psychopathic fashion, quick phony “crocodile tears”, but never EVER for the incident or person or circumstances at hand, but always, ALWAYS for themselves! — “poor me”! “Look what I have to endure”. I don’t think psychopaths have the ability to care for anyone other than themselves, including their own mother. And if Judge Darrow or anyone else thinks for even one minute that if JAR were to be let off on probation in order to look after his mother, and that he would devote himself to being confined in the house day after day doing so, they’d better think again — James needs too much to be out in the spotlight, gaining attention in any way he possibly can, having people idolizing him and falling all over him and his every word. The only thing James is good at looking after is James. And it seems that he isn’t even very good at that. Though, psychopath that he is, he would never recognize that nor admit it. This whole trial and the circumstances surrounding it, plus the failing health of his mother and father are just a blip in the life of “I am God” James Arthur Ray. He has no feelings or compassion or empathy about any of it — because he isn’t capable.

    1. @nancy,

      Yes, give him a new trial so that he can be found guilty of murder and sentenced to life, like he should have been in the first place. Or maybe given the electric chair. Crazy egotistical bastard doesn’t when he’s well off, even with nine years. Of course, the lawyers have something to do with it, because the longer this goes on, the more money they make — and they aren’t shy or embarrassed to keep taking more and more money, no matter what — just like JAR.

      1. @Bonnie, Agreed. A new trial? Be careful what you wish for. It could be a lot worse, as you said. Besides, if JAR really doesn’t have any money, how are these lawyers being paid?? Anyone know?

        1. @,

          Personally, I don’t think he’s broke and never was — I mean, come on, $10,000 a head times around 60 people at the Death Lodge alone? — and that’s just one event of the whole year — times how many years. Plus all the frauducts he sells of his and other people’s? Nobody can spend that much money, no matter what they spend it on. He’s got cash still stashed away, don’t kid yourself. And these lawyers wouldn’t be working without getting paid. All this losing his homes and moving in with mommy and daddy is all just a hoax to look for sympathy from the judge — but he doesn’t look sympathetic, he looks pathetic — no matter what he does — crocodile tears not withstanding.

          I hope Judge Darrow is ready to stand up like a man, like James Arthur Ray isn’t and never was and never will be.

    1. @nancy,

      Yes, I read that this morning, but had to go do something else so wasn’t able to post the link. And what’s with this Tere Gingerella? I know that is only part of her testimony, but it sounds like she agreed to testify for the prosecution against JAR and then either changed her mind, chickened out, or just plain lied about who she was going there to support in the first place? I sure wouldn’t doubt the latter, having worked so closely with JAR for so long and I’m sure internalizing much of his bullshit, including how to lie and cheat. But I’m hoping Mark Duncan took that completely out of context and she gave a damaging testimony against Ray, like he deserves. Professor Steve Pace’s testimony was sure right on the money!

  38. Oh my God, JAR wiped his eye and sniffed when it was being talked about whether or not he cared about what happened at Angel Valley?

    Will the REAL narcissist psychopath con artist conscienceless bastard please stand up?

    Thank you, James. You may be seated now.

    And Trick Do said that he couldn’t react because he was in shock? Yes, that’s why he went back to his room, had a shower and changed clothes, and calmly made himself something to eat. As far as I have ever heard, you can not function when you are in shock, let alone eat. And when the detectives came to the door to ask him to come with them, he asked them if they couldn’t just go and talk to Josh — because he was eating! Yep, in shock alright. And so are all the rest of us.

    1. @nancy,

      Powerful stuff is right! I hope Judge Darrow listens to the witnesses recommendations and gives the maximum sentence — which, as James Shore’s mother stated, is clearly not enough. And I hope he doesn’t fall for any of the bullshit that the witnesses for the defence will spout next week — because it WILL be all bullshit! — all in an attempt to try to save their “own” hides and livelihoods, not JAR’s.

      1. @Bonnie,

        I hope it’s a good sign that Darrow “has allowed considerable leeway in the presentation of the state’s case”.

        All this crowing by the defense that Death Ray has no prior convictions is every bit as disgraceful as everything those assholes have said during this trial. The only reason he has no prior convictions is because the San Diego police let him get away with the negligent homicide of Colleen Conaway. At least Darrow is fully informed about that.

        1. @Yakaru,

          If he doesn’t give him the maximum after all that was said in court these last 3 days, plus, knowing of Colleen Conaway’s death and how JAR let her go as a “Jane Doe” for a long while too while trying to cover it up and then partying all night like nothing happened and lying and telling all the other participants that she had decided to go home and not finish the workshop, then there is something definately wrong. I guess we’ll see in one week.

  39. The sad thing (one of many) with all of this, is that there is someone who knows what happened to Colleen Conaway immediately prior to her death, but whoever they are, they’re not saying.

    1. @i wonder, How do you know this? I’ve always felt there was an important missing piece with Colleen… the way she died, or what was reported, didn’t make sense with her personality. Does anyone know if they did an autopsy? Could someone have given her drugs? I feel so sad for the family. At least Colleen’s situation came to light in court this week. Is it true that JAR charged her credit card for thousands after her death? Someone posted that, so I just wanted to confirm if it’s true or not.

      1. @Solar Flare, I just have the same thought as you, that some vital information is missing from the account given by James Ray and (some) of his staff of Colleen Conaway’s death. People don’t just up and suddenly kill themselves for no reason. I’ve worked with many emotionally vulnerable people, and there’s always a clear history of psychological difficulties of some sort, along with ‘tipping points’; events/risk factors that sharply increase the risk of self-harm. And unless the person has had some sort of break with reality, they usually don’t choose to suicide in a busy shopping mall (with kids around).

        Given James Ray’s (proven) willingness to recklessly endanger his participants, the situation raises a lot of questions about how Colleen was treated during his event. What exactly happened to her on the bus and when she arrived at the mall. Was she bullied, coerced or humiliated in some way. Was she taunted over that railing; a demonstration of ‘going all out’ that went wrong. Was she physically harmed or emotionally overwhelmed by the event itself, but no-one was looking out for her or cared. What safety strategies were put in place for her and the other participants? Where was Colleen’s ‘buddy’? Was there even a buddy system to keep her safe?

        So many unanswered questions. One thing is clear though. Colleen Conaway wasn’t alone on that bus. And if what has been reported is accurate, people took intentional steps to cover things up and minimise any possible culpability. Someone knows more than they’re saying.

        Such a terrible situation. I saw the video of the interview with Colleen’s family, and felt so sad for them, and the callous way that they were treated by JRI.

        1. @i wonder,

          Incidentally this was just on twitter from @TomMcFeeley:
          Just an FYI for #jamesray watchers: Thursday in the courthouse he was served w/ a wrongful death lawsuit by Colleen Conaway’s family

          1. @Yakaru, Just saw on Twitter that the tweet by Tom was incorrect…. Still, it was a powerful week for the truth to come out.

            1. PS – It sounds like he was served in the hallway late Thursday when everyone was leaving. But nobody knows by whom??

  40. I’m sorry you have so much hate. I feel very sad for you. Hopefully you find some peace in your life.

    1. @James fan ::

      I’m pretty fucking sure I’m not here looking for peace :: but hopefully I don’t die pointlessly in a sweat lodge … in service to a washed out telemarketer with the IQ of drunk rabbit.

    2. @James fan,

      You’re lying. You’re not sad about anything. But seeing as you think you have some insight into James Ray’s character, how about telling us haters why you think he abandoned Colleen’s body in a shopping mall.

    3. @James fan, I think I made the wrong video post with the all-female jazz trio since it’s a proven fact for sure that SD hates women – although I can’t remember him killing any of them like mr. Ray did.

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