467 Comments »

T.J. said:
Hello again, Tim Brownson.
  +1
[Reply]

Rhheee! Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
@T.J., @Everyone, Couldn’t help myself… Every time I see that image I can’t help but hear the noise “Rheee!”
  +1
[Reply]

Rheee Again Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
@Rhheee!,
[URL=http://imgur.com/jAe6M][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/jAe6M.png[/IMG][/URL]
http://i.imgur.com/jAe6M.png
  0
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 6:22 pm

Albert said:
…woops. Methinks he not so happy now about his decision to come to the defense of rotund spider lady.
  +1
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:18 am
@Albert, Yeh except I never defended her, but everybody seems to be missing that simple fact.
I actually came to defend Jonathan Fields. That’s what kicked it all off. And I stand by what I said that I think he’s a great guy.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
I’ll bet Jonathan Fields wishes you’d stand somewhere else.
You did defend her :: like so …
This? Well it appears some woman may have had an affair, may be late paying her affiliates (although we’re not sure on the last bit) and maybe used dubious marketing tactics to get people to buy from her.
I presume you realize every business you ever buy from does exactly the same, right
You think she’s a sleazy bastard :: yet you said that. You thought the death threats were fake :: yet you said that.
But yeah … you basically weren’t defending her … you were shilling for the idea that nothing should be read into the very real associations. But that’s a fool/troll point to make on a blog about dubious associations. You might want to reread the Perry Belcher posts Tim :: because they’re not about Perry Belcher … they’re about The Syndicate.
It’s about how everyone will promote someone as an expert on the Internet even though everyone knows that someone is a fat fucking fraudster just out on parole for very serious computer crimes.
Cause all that matters is the money … and everything else is an intentional lie.
[Reply]

Juice Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
@SD, This shit writes itself.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 6:32 pm

Merle said:
That picture at the top of the post is very becoming of Tim Brownson. This home movie is even better:
  0
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 6:38 pm

RT said:
@tim
Tell Bud What I said about you stands … you are an idiot.
But you are also entertaining … in a Jersey Shore type of way :) Thanks for providing the raw material for this post.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 7:05 pm

peppery said:
“…………. I’m highly experienced and very good at what I do though”
Well well I’ll be, according to the gospel of Tim Brownson. Think about that sirname for a bit. Says it all doesnt it. I think I’d opt for a stage name ….Crapboy perhaps.
First picture is priceless and yep, crapboy fits.
  0
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 7:09 pm

JPB014 said:
Sadly ALL of the selfish help industry relies on TROLLS to make money. If they dont have trolls they dont survive. Trolls are known to work for nothing, make stupid claims that are clueless about anything they are talking about and it eventually shows which is really really really funny to watch.
  +4
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 7:19 pm

Boney Rubbins said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
that is what happens when you stick your hand in a robots vagina.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@Boney Rubbins ::
… not every time though … don’t spread vicious rumors.
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 7:38 pm

RT said:
So will Tim be the first to attempt to defend himself on the post about him.
… I hope so. Certainly this is an understanding – right Tim?
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

SpideySenses Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
@RT, The true question is which personality will Tim use to defend himself or will he send another unsolicited email?
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@RT ::
Actually :: Lanny Morton …
http://saltydroid.info/bob-proctor-lanny-morton-six-minute-suckcess/
And :: Perry Belcher …
http://saltydroid.info/ms-leadingly-false-our-newest-accountant/
And :: Fat O’Bryan …
http://saltydroid.info/pat-obryan-your-portable-empire-strikes-back/
… all tried it.
[Reply]

RT Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@SD,
… I guess we can add Tim to the list of dumb asses.
Tim you are not alone in your dumb-assness :-)
  +6
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 7:41 pm

Barbara said:
May I just say THANK YOU, a thousand times for this post. God, I couldn’t stand that self-serving jerk. He claims to be qualified because he studied NLP? So did James Ray. How’s that for some distinguished company? NLP has long been exposed for the gigantic pile of crap it is and anybody still boasting of “studying” NLP, ( yeah, that means you too, Melinda), is also exposed for being equally craptastic.
And I did see the name “Johnny B. Truant” on his website but so what? He’s saying Naomi scams but Johnny doesn’t? More bullshit.
NLP training as a credential is a dead giveaway that you’re a charlatan. It’s pseudoscience founded by a coke addict and murderer, Richard Bandler, and has been thoroughly debunked.
WINNER!! ::   +25
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
@Barbara ::
Yeah Johnny is totally innocent … and his name is totally Johnny too.
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 7:42 pm

Irwin said:
“You invited yourself to my game… you lied on my fucking page.” – SaltyDroid
Well… he can’t say you didn’t warn him SD. He should have known better than to peddle his crap here. What a rookie.
WINNER!! ::   +20
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 8:05 pm

Jaime said:
That photo of Tim Brownson with Perry Belcher … LOL … Good find!
  +1
[Reply]

Sherman Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
@Jaime, It’s also funny how Tim Brownson posed with Perry Belcher in that “Look, I’m rubbing up against a rockstar” way. Then he comes here and anonymously trashes him. So I give Tim Brownson 50 points for trashing the deserving Belcher, but I take those points away for Brownson being a jackass otherwise.
  +5
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:02 am
@Sherman, And now you know I have never met Belcher and that’s not me, can I have my 50 points back please?
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +2
[Reply]

Sherman Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:16 am
@Tim Brownson, As I said, I took back the 50 points for you being a jackass. I don’t expect you’ve become a non-jackass in only a matter of days. Seeing that you are a self-proclaimed “life coach” I should think you’d agree it takes time to see such “radical personal change.” Then again, change is something you sell, not necessarily do.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +2
[Reply]

Harley Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:12 am
@Sherman,Except that is NOT Tim!!
Get your facts straight.
  +2
[Reply]

Sherman Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:00 am
@Harley, That was already mentioned, fanboy, so what’s your agenda? It doesn’t change everything else, including Tim being a jackass.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +1
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:44 am
@Sherman, Also it’s not Perry Belcher. It’s Kevin Smith. ;-)
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Sherman Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:55 am
@Jack, Kind of like those wooden Russian nesting dolls?
  +3

Lanna Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
@Jaime,
I’m afraid that’s not Tim; it’s David Risley. You know, of DavidRisley.com: Making a Living At the Crossroads of Blogging and Internet Marketing. [I'm not making this shit up.] I can see how you could get them confused, though, since they both do coaching according to their websites.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +4
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:35 am
@Lanna
@Jade
Thanks for clarification and a name.
I kept comparing that photo with others in the post because I wasn’t sure. Their faces are quite similar … sans hair, of course.
It would have been easier for me to know if Tim wasn’t wearing his cool emo glasses all the time.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Jade Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:15 pm
@Jaime,
Actually that photo is David Risley rather than Tim.
One of the things it’s ‘cool’ to do in our industry is to get photos of you with welebrities. People see you standing with someone more famous, and think more highly of you.
I’ve tried not to get into that but it’s so easy to get caught up in the ‘omg there is so and so’ mindset. I prefer to get pics with friends who are at the same level as me or slightly above, D team people who I’ve hung out with and had fun with.
I’m thinking of commenting occasionally to talk about why people doing stuff – is that something that would be useful? I don’t want to get flamed, but I’ve seen a couple of innaccuracies here and there and it wouldn’t hurt anyone (followers of the this site OR ittybiz) to clear them up. Everything is going to come out eventually, regardless.
For the record, I haven’t been a fan of Naomi for some time but the whole community is so interconnected it’s not recommended to say anything. People just gossip via DM’s and emails.
WINNER!! ::   +19
[Reply]

Jade Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:41 am
To clarify – no intention of giving dirt, but talking about general trends and clarifying stuff via public info.
With the welebrity statement above, I meant that some people get pics without knowing the person that well. I’ve done it before.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
@Jade ::
You’re right about peeps getting into welebrity pics without much thought :: but that’s not what’s going on with Belcher and Risley.
David Risley defended Perry Belcher quite vociferously :: to my face :: the sort of thing I never forget … because Perry Belcher was/is undefendable.
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:42 am
@Jade,
I know what you mean. I’ve always found it strange that people treat ‘successful’ people like celebrity, and try to gain credibility in this manner.
You know it’s thought of as an accomplishment too!
It’s a damn contest to get as many of these photos as possible and post them all over your website’s ‘about’ page.
  +5
[Reply]

Poop Chute Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:39 am
@Jaime, This is taught to noobs again and again — “fame and celebrity by association.” It’s funny how, now, I can see that it’s really just another way to get a whole bunch of people posting the “welebrity” guy or gal’s photo all over the web with backlinks, etc.
Purdy damned sneeky, if you ask me. More trickery.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Alex Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:38 pm
It did seem surprising that Tim could ever have had that much hair. Or even appear in human form.
  0
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:00 am
@Jaime, You’re right it is a great find, except it aint me. I have never met Perry Belcher nor any of the other people mentioned, but no worries you have already made your mind up.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +1
[Reply]

Lance Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:23 am
@Tim Brownson, It is more than just about associations, “coach.” How “convenient” of you to try to dismiss all of your actions by pinning them on that alone. That’s an insult to anyone reading.
  +2
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Lance, Seriously? Someone gets insulted easily…
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
This is the Internet you idiot :: quit saying you “haven’t met” people you’re associated with on the Internet. You don’t “meet” most of your clients either … yet you claim those interactions are so deeply personal and effective as to be life changing.
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, No target on David Risley? ;)
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Jerry Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
@SD, That might have been the fastest I’ve ever seen an entire hot air balloon deflated in just two sentences.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 8:22 pm

hrmmm said:
What I see in the picture above:
“Victim mindset
“Gut instinct
“I’m a lobster”
And then Tim Brownson doing his best impression of a lobster.
  +3
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 8:31 pm

Anna said:
I may not much like my job, but it pays the bills and well, I have more than a month’s worth of money in the bank… I’m sure I should contract with Tim for some Life Coaching or with Naomi on what to do to promote my blog. On second thought, no, they me sick. Perhaps I’ll just follow along here. Thanks so much, Salty for writing the important stuff and for making it entertaining, which isn’t important, but keeps it interesting.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 8:35 pm

hrmmm said:
Oh, random PS: is anyone else getting the “This is an attack page!” warning when trying to go on ittybiz.com?
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
@hrmmm, It’s either the malware warning from Google or it’s about Google’s new personality profiling algorithm.
WINNER!! ::   +20
[Reply]

I feel sick Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:35 am
@Jack, Damn……
.you just made me spit my milk all over the monitor…..quality
  +4
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
@hrmmm,
I have. It happened this afternoon.
  +4
[Reply]

Anna Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@hrmmm, yes, and once on there, the formatting doesn’t look like it use to.
  +1
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
@hrmmm,
It’s back up now. Looks like one of those mass meshing injection attacks that’s been going around. Come to think of it, Mass Meshing Injection Attack would be a good name for Frank Kern’s follow-up to Mass Control.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   0
[Reply]

hrmmm Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:39 am
I think y’all are making me paranoid, because my first thought was “She hacked her own site to beef up the credibility of her hacking/death threat claims.”
My antivirus software did pick up an exploit 2 days ago, which hardly ever happens. So, yeah.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
@hrmmm ::
She was already hacked before all this started … she just made up the part about it being me.
I’m trying to only use the archives and caches now … the IttyBiz is toxics
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 8:38 pm

Jack said:
The first photo must have to be a shoe-in for the SD 2011 retrospective.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 8:47 pm

Barbara said:
Tim Brownson attempts to be funny:
“This could be one of my last ever posts as I read with sadness last nigh that Obama’s new Government is looking to ban Life Coaching by the end of April. Not only that, but they have declared NLP illegal and an act of treason punishable by 20 years of hard rock breaking, as of midnight last night.Government spokesperson John Johnny ‘JJ’ Johnsonburger III Jnr Snr said in a brief statement..”
This was part of Tim’s April Fool’s Day 2009 blog post. Talk about not quitting your day job. That was the most labored, wheezing, clunking, unfunny attempt at humor I’ve ever read…and I’ve read Naomi Dunford’s blog.
Is there anything sadder than someone with absolutely no sense of humor who tries to be funny? It’s impossible to read without wincing. He’s no Salty Droid, that’s for sure.
The “nigh” for “night” was Tim’s typo, not mine. And if the day ever did come when President Obama’s government banned life coaching there would be dancing in the streets. One class of scammers down, now on to the boiler rooms!
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

You're so silly Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Barbara,
Sadder? That’s one of those words that, although I have read Tolstoy and ee cummings, I never use. Mostly ‘cuz I’m scared someone will point out I used it wrong (wrongly?) and laugh at me. But now that I’ve seen you (editor in chief) write it — confidence abounds!
Tim Brownson — you really piss me off, dude. I don’t give a crap about the NLP stuff (Actually, I kind of like NLP. I like it the same way I used to like the secret decoder ring in my Frosted Flakes and the old ads in the back of Popular Mechanics for tornado creators.)
What pisses me off:
For God’s sake, you’re dealing with a lawyer. He’s trained to note inconsistencies. And to use logic and reasoning to destroy credibility. Plus, you’re kicking the ball around on his home turf.
If there’s one thing I learned from watching Step Up, Step Up 2 The Streets and probably Step Up 3D (which I will rent tonight) — when you step up, you should step correctly or not all. You shoulda stuck with the latter.
I gave you the benefit of doubt. Now I look like an idiot. Thanks. (At least I knew better than to use my real name.) Life coaches – meh.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
@You’re so silly,
Sad, sadder, saddest, that’s the way the nuns taught it, I don’t remember all the rules about usage but I believe it’s called inflective form.
I also remember from another class that the Latin root word was the same root word for the word “sated”, as in had enough. Like we’ve all had of Coach Brownson’s nostrums.
And the tornado creators? I loved those ads. Do you suppose anybody bought them? My brother sent for the authentic “shrunken head” adverised in a pulp magazine. When it came it was a badly decorated rather small coconut. I trace my hatred of scam artists back to that moment.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 8:54 pm

KG said:
Wow. Tim Brownson is likely now very relieved that the “life coaching” profession is not regulated, because at this point, Naomi and her husband do not have any recourse to complain to the Life Coach Licensing Board of the UK.
I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that he called his client a sleazy bastard.
If he is the best of the best there is in life coaching, it proves that this “profession” is a bunch a hogwash and a huge waste of money.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 13th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
@KG,

If he is the best of the best there is in life coaching, it proves that this “profession” is a bunch a hogwash and a huge waste of money.
Yes, thank you! I think that is the one-line summary.
For a little while, I even tried reasoning with the guy–I guess I did that because, based on the comments and the voting, some folks on the page seemed to think he was doing something really good. Or at least it appeared that way at the time.
@Tim Brownson bemoaned that the “life coaching” profession didn’t have any regulation or objective standards. So I wrote
What kind of licensing and training would you suggest?
What kind of training have you had?
What kind of and how much training do you think someone would have to have before they ought to be called a “life coach”?
I confess I’m highly skeptical that there is any such thing as “good training to be a life coach”, but you’ve apparently spent many years “coaching” people officially as it were, so in your opinion: what would regulated “life coaching” look like?
Tim didn’t answer it. I was actually a little disappointed. Funny how I can still get my hopes up that maybe I’ll challenge someone like that and they’ll actually be willing and able to show some kind of evidence or at the very least some kind of well reasoned argument explaining their position.
That’d be cool. @SD does that. He’s pretty good at it too. Must be those mad lawyer-ninja skillz and the computer he has for a brain.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +5
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:13 am
@Wyrd, I didn’t answer it because I haven’t been back here since Friday so now I will.
Anything ICF accreditated in the US.
Loads, do and read my website
Impossible to say, but at least 100+ hours of pro bono coaching and the core essentials of coaching
I can only speak for training companies I have worked with, but I have worked with other coaches that didn’t seem qualified after training. The only training in this country that has blown me away was David Rocks company, but I forget what it’s called now.
And if you want to challenge me, pick the phone up my number is on the website.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -2
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:22 am
@KG,
Actually, all Tim’s contact info indicates he’s practicing near Orlando, Florida, USA.
That means he can be reported to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services for violating the privacy that his clients, Naomi and Jamie Dunford, could expect under the US’s HIPAA act. Are life coaches “covered entities”? I don’t know, but “ANYONE CAN FILE!” so perhaps it’s best to file and let the experts at HHS sort it out.
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/complaints/index.html
The State of Florida is also pretty stringent about professional regulation. It’s a misdemeanor of the first degree to practice clinical social work or marriage and family therapy in the state for compensation without the appropriate valid, active license. Does life coaching fall into that? Again, I don’t know, but it’s easy enough to file a complaint and let the experts sort it.
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/unlicensed/unlic_home.html
Muchly debated. What do you think?   0
[Reply]

Not Joseph McCarthy Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:55 am
@Lanna,
Your comment is going to get a bunch of deserved thumbs up, but initially, and strangely, it received a few curious thumbs downs.
Just what TYPE of person would ever give a thumbs down to a good comment like this, which encourages the following of the laws of our society?
The words, “paranoid parasitic douchebags” come to mind.
Everyone reading this should take just a brief moment and register a quick complaint using the link you conveniently provided.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +1
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:15 am
@Not Joseph McCarthy,
HIPAA doesn’t apply, and why waste an agencies time processing needless paperwork, and conducting needless investigations in which it has no jurisdiction.
Even if this imbecile was a registered psychologist [[which he's not]]..he practices outside the USA and US law does not apply.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
@_cartman_ ::
Bullshit :: do report him. Why not?
Agencies are there to listen to us whine … if they’d listen harder maybe things wouldn’t be so fucked.
I think the Florida DOH one is especially good … IMO most “life coaches” are in violation of licensing laws … and if The Man wanted to do something about it … something could be done.
[Reply]

Sundog Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:47 am
@SD, Because they regurgitate the training other people sold them?
  0

Martin Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:52 am
@Sundog, How about because they might appear to be providing a form of social/counseling services, which justifiably requires real education and licensing?
  +2

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:09 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Lanna, Firstly I didn’t breach any client confidentiality. Even in private e-mails to Salty, that obviously weren’t private, I didn’t say what I was working on.
Secondly, Naomi did give me a testimonial and with that permission to talk about her. And thirdly they’re in Canada.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:35 am
@Tim Brownson,
Sir, I don’t know why you don’t quit while you’re ahead …. well not quite.
You want your profession regulated and you have zero clue as to what breaching confidentiality means.
ANY INFORMATION GIVEN ABOUT ANY CLIENT OF ANY NATURE is a breach of confidentiality.
As a licensed and regulated professional for over 30 years in two different professions, I can tell you, that had I written all you have written up above regarding a few patients, my ass would be in a sling so quick in front of my regulatory board, that I would be at risk of losing my license and therefore unable to practice.
Actually I find what you did very interesting. What would possess you to write a private email to Salty Droid and suggest that a client of yours is a sleazy bastard?
You say it’s not for traffic. Then what it is? I don’t get it.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:44 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@KG, It’s all context.
Naomi called Michael a sleazy bastard which considering what has gone on here and the death threats, I thought was ironic.
I don’t need this kind of traffic, trust me.
As I said below it was to defend some people that I like, respect and thought were getting a rough deal. Nothing more, but if you can think of any possible way I could benefit from this, I’m all ears.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:15 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Lanna, Well if you rad it again I didn’t mention what we were working on and I am at liberty to name clients especially when they themselves have publicly talked about it.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:16 am
@Lanna,
Thanks for the correction.
I was just being facetious. I doubt that ‘life coaching’ could ever be taken to task unless there was some serious harm (as in death or injury) that resulted directly from the coaching. I just thought that the idea of wanting life coaching regulated, without teachings and follow-up examinations in ethics, professionalism and jurisprudence, was completely out to lunch. And now with this post, it is apparent that that type of training is absent for this career.
I used to be pretty neutral about life coaching. Before, I thought it was pretty harmless, semi-useless for some, semi-helpful for some, but now, I see it as sad.
Sad, because hiring a life coach is like buying a friend. I have no doubt that life coaches have nuggets of wisdom to impart. But so do significant others, friends, employees, employers, grown children, neighbours, etc.
I feel for the people that feel they need to pay for a nugget of wisdom they could otherwise get in their own true personal supportive network.
Life coaching, IMHO, in the big picture, is a manifestation and sad side-effect of the increasing lack of connection with family and friends to help solve life’s problems.
I suppose it’s helpful for some though, and perhaps offers a different perspective.
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]

not really Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:09 am
@KG,
“Sad, because hiring a life coach is like buying a friend”
Actually, it’s not.
Friends and family are often too close to our own problems and circumstances to offer effective advice. They can shy away from asking the hard questions, and even if they pluck up the courage we’ll sometimes ignore them.
A good coach can also see outside our immediate circumstances, which people close to us often can’t.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +3
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:18 am
@not really,
These people simply need better friends. Or to hang out with different people.
I’m curious why you’re defending the idea of a “coach” rather than referring people to trained physicians and therapists?
Most large companies have people on staff to handle these issues – if you need an objective third party.
Because that’s what you’re after, right? A third party to talk to and get reasonable opinions from?
I’m curious why the “life coach” is being put in such a positive light, given the alternatives.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Tabbs Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:30 am
@Jaime, Completely agree with you. Obviously, “not really” is obviously “not unbiased.”
  +3

not really Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:13 am
@Jaime,
I’ve used a life coach, she was fantastic.
I haven’t tried therapy, I don’t need it.
I talked to the coach because she was recommended by a friend, who I’d previously seen benefit hugely – it was probably the most useful single hour of conversation I’ve ever had. The suggestions she made were something I would never have come to on my own, and it literally turned things around for me.
So no, I’m not unbiased, I’m very “pro” life coaches, assuming you know of a good one.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1

Shorty Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
What I find bogus sounding about @not really’s post is the idea that in 1 hour a life coach can solve a problem that he/she has been talking to friends/family for years (literally). Sorry, not buying it. Unless that last bit about not needing therapy is untrue. People do sometimes hide from their need of therapy by engaging in pseudo-personal growth attempts like life coaching. In which case your problem probably isn’t really solved, only hidden.
  +5

not really Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
@Shorty,
Sorry, I can’t respond in the right place.
Not bogus.
As a result of that conversation, I quit my job to set up my own company. Two years later and it’s going well. It’s been non-stop hard work ever since, but really rewarding and liberating.
You could say it wasn’t the life coaching session it was the work ever since that made the difference, but the decision was made then. It was a decision that (with hindsight) I needed to make but the fact that I was procrastinating was messing everything else up for me. I didn’t need therapy to make the decision, but if I hadn’t made it I might have ended up in therapy.
And before you all pile in calling the coach irresponsible, it took me 5 more months to actually quit – by which time I’d reached a financial and contractual situation that was sufficiently secure compared to where I had been before to make the move safely.
Maybe a therapist would have spotted where I was “stuck” just as quickly and helped me reach the same decision – but somehow, I doubt it.
Good coaches have their place
  0

Wyrd Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:08 am
@SD,
could you please check @not really’s IP address?
@not really’s lame argument against @KG’s assertion that a “life coach” is like a paid friend means that @not really is either very naive or else it’s really @Tim with a different handle… again…
@not really:
Yeah, true sometimes friends and family won’t tell you what you need to hear when you need to hear it. Then again, a bought-and-paid-for “life coach” won’t always do that either. Duh. Massive, massive head-desk duh.
@not really:
(In anticipation of your counter-argument): Yes, of course you would say that the good “life coach”es really would tell you the hard truths that you don’t want to hear. Of course–so would the really good friend. Duh. Massive, massive head-desk duh.
Also: The “life coach” doesn’t really come into someone’s life until that person decides they should actually pay for a “life coach”. This means that real initiator of change is the person who thinks to themselves, “hmmm. Things don’t seem to be going ok for me right now. I need to change things. Maybe if I hire a `life coach’ to help me on my way…”
Can you see how this act–the act of shelling out cold hard cash for advice–biases the person in favor of
1) trying to really listen and act on the advice and
2) tending to declare the final result a success in almost every instance?
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +6
[Reply]

not really Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am
@Wyrd,
Yes, I can – I don’t have a problem with that. I’d been talking to my friends and family about this stuff for years (literally). One coaching session made all the difference – who cares exactly why that was ? It worked.
  0

Carol Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:14 am
@not really,
“who cares exactly why that was ? It worked.”
Sounds like you could have gotten by with a faith healer.
WINNER!! ::   +11

Shorty Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@Wyrd,
That’s it exactly! Reminds me of Dumbo and the magic feather. You never needed the magic feather @not really. Just keep flapping your big freakin’ ears!
  +4

Shorty Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
Oops, that should be @Carol!
  0

not really Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:04 am
@Shorty,
Ha ! Nicely put. And it proves the point perfectly.
My problem was – I was stuck in a job I’d grown to hate, earning not enough money. So far so dull.
But I’d been laying plans for 18 months to start my own business – I just couldn’t find a way to make the transition, especially since I had a mortgage and two young kids to support. And it was making me ill – my relationship with my employers was getting worse and worse – I think I would have become depressed (if I wasn’t already).
So I went to my coach asking for ways to handle my relationship with my employers better, to make the situation more bearable.
We talked and she said words to the effect that: “it sounds to me as if your relationship with your employers is beyond repair. You’re driving yourself crazy because you want to leave but you can’t make the move” – ie. I was suffering cognitive dissonance. Nothing earth-shattering yet.
Then she asked – “How would it feel if you converted the nursery into an office ?”
This was something we’d talked idly about but always rejected out of hand – I had no work to do yet ! What was the point of an office when I could work on a laptop at the dining room table ? Especially since it would mean putting the kids in together – our youngest was a light sleeper, more broken nights yada yada yada…
But as I thought about it, I realised it was the symbolic step I needed to make. It made me FEEL as though I had left my job and started my new future, even though it took another 5 months to reach that stage.
I took her advice and never looked back. Because (in my head) I’d made the break, I no longer cared what my relationship with my employers was like – the worst they could do was fire me, in which case I’d get a severance package ! And of course ironically from there on in things actually improved so that eventually I left on reasonable terms with them.
So, absolutely – my temporary spare-room office was “Dumbo’s Feather” – but remember Dumbo would never have had the courage to try and fly without it.
To me that’s the perfect example of great coaching – she saw past what I THOUGHT was my problem, and offered a simple suggestion to get me past the thing that was REALLY messing me up – all in an hour’s conversation.
And I can pretty much guarantee I would never have had that clever insight myself – and no-one close to me would have suggested it.
I would venture to say that finding your own personal “magic feather” is a key ingredient to what (good) coaches (can) do.
  +2

Ben Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
@not really said:
“@Shorty, Ha ! Nicely put. And it proves the point perfectly.”
No, it does not prove your point at all.
Talk about twisting someone else’s comment around!
The point Shorty made was that you did NOT need a “coach” at all.
Just look at the scenario you described:
1. “Laying plans” for a business for 18 months.
2. Employers are “making you sick.”
3. So-called coach says, “what if you converted your nursery into an “office?”
4. Office made you “FEEL” as though you had left job and started “new future.”
5. “No longer cared what relationship with employers was like – the worst they could do was fire you.”
So the big “aha” moment was taking a room you already knew you had, and using if for a pretend office for a non-existent business that fed your need for escapism?
Then, what do you do when you need to “figure out” the massive dilemma of where to put your pretend business papers? Do you again call your so-called coach and brainstorm until you get to the “aha moment” of buying a filing cabinet? Sounds like the land of co-dependency.
Wow. You could have gotten more useful and detailed advice from an interior decorator, probably cheaper.
Paying for someone else to feed your fantasies and point out the obvious is absurd. And if what you described was NOT obvious, you are NOT going to make it in business, speaking from years of experience. So your so-called coach was doing you a disservice!
You were also USING and taking advantage of your employers, clearly. You “didn’t care” what your “relationship” was because you were only interested in getting money out of them.
THAT is probably the biggest reason you had a POOR relationship with your employers in the first place. You were using them, and you bristled when they weren’t happy you weren’t doing what you were paid to do.
You said it yourself: you didn’t CARE. You weren’t contributing, you were cashing their paychecks while lost in your own fantasies.
That’s why your so-called “life coach” actually FAILED you. They only helped you escape reality, not deal with it.
  +4

Anonymous Reply:
September 21st, 2011 at 12:29 am
@Ben gets the gold star, @not really go sit in the corner and put on the dunce cap!
  +2

not really / also waiting Reply:
September 21st, 2011 at 3:03 am
@Ben,
If that’s really your opinion after reading my posts we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
It’s impressive how much stuff you can infer, assume and invent about me given that you know nothing about me apart from having read a handful of blog comments.
Within weeks of the coaching session I’m talking about, I had real work for my new business, and I successfully did that work in evenings and weekends and built it into even more work and eventually was able to land a large contract that allowed me to quit my old job.
If you choose not to believe me, well there’s nothing I can do about that. Of course there are good, bad and indifferent coaches, just as with every other profession. I’m just offering a real example of how it worked well for me.
  -3

Ben Reply:
September 21st, 2011 at 6:44 am
@not really / also waiting,
How did your previous employer notice you’d quit? When they discovered there was an extra parking space and their profits increased?
By the way, was your “large contract” for commenting on blogs? I mean, since there doesn’t seem to be much time left for you to be doing anything else.
  0

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
@KG ::
Life coaching :: it’s like having a friend … who hates you.
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@SD,
A friend like James Ray, another NLPer.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 9:03 pm

Albert said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Is it a prerequisite to be wholly unattractive in order to become an internet marketer? From their sacred cows, Seth Gollum and boy werewolf Gary Vaynerchuk, to the B-team & beyond, its like navigating through a labyrinth of butt-fugly and belly rolls.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 9:50 pm

Doctor Mario said:
oooo – the little Icarus moth got burned!
@Doctor Mario should change his name to @Doctor Nostradamus ::
It’s even funnier when IMers / Life Coaches / etc arrive under your real names (thx-4-da-LULZ @Tim Brownson!) … like you are the extra-special exception – come here to prove there really IS a glowing unicorn turd among the pile! Super!
I mean — any sane person — once seeing the sharks in the pool — would just skip the swim … right?
And guess what {not-sane-person} @Tim Brownson said in his reply ::
@Doctor Mario, You mean any coward would avoid the swim, or anybody with stuff to hide.
Clearly (a) Tim Brownson does not understand the eating habits of pool-bound sharks and (b) Tim Brownson had stuff to hide. Whoops!
@SD … Did you already know that @Tim Brownson was in the “coaching life coaches coaching business” when you said ::
Your a life coach huh? How convenient for me … cause I’m a life coach coach … let’s start our consultation shall we?
Because, technically, that would make you a “life coach coach coach.”
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 11:46 pm

Acai Berry Scams 50% Off said:
[Irony Alert] Now Naomi will have a reason to remove TIM’S testimonial, because it could have an effect on her image.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:20 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Acai Berry Scams 50% Off,
That’s actually really funny!
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Deuce Monkey Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@Tim Brownson,
I’ve got to say that you are handling this post better than anyone else has done so. Only a few of your comments are voted down.
You could life coach the crap out of the other perps featured on this blog for a great fee. Team up with Deiss or one one of the other traffic gurus to offer SEO services to push SD’s posts down and voila – you’ve just sold your soul and made some cashola.
  0
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@Deuce Monkey ::
It’s easier to be brave when you have nothing to lose.
[Reply]

Deuce Monkey Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@SD,
True dat
  0
[Reply]
# 13 September 2011 at 11:52 pm

Wanderlost said:
My favorite part of the Tim Brownson farce that played out in the last post was this exchange about his book title with Shorty:
Brownson: How To Be Rich and Happy isn’t about rich in the financial self it’s about doing what you love and feeling rich in spirit. When I had loads of money I felt empty and worried about it all the time, now I have little I’m a pretty happy and content person.
Shorty: Might I suggest you refine the copy on your website to clarify, as you have done so here, that your book is not about becoming financially rich, but merely feeling rich in spirit? Oddly enough, every mention of becoming “rich” on your site is unqualified. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with American English, but we Yanks would read “rich” in that context as having lots of cold hard cash (which you admit you do not … adding this detail would go a long way toward clearing up this confusion…my quick tip of the day! No charge!). I’m sure you had no intention of misleading potential customers, so I look forward to reviewing your revised site!
Brownson: It does say that on the HTBRAH site. It clearly says it’s not a get rick quick book, if you actually bother to look.
And the title was the idea of my co-author and he’s American, so I guess he knew that. I came on as co-author after the book was already started and the title agreed upon.
Shorty: I did bother to look at your site. According to standardized tests, my reading comprehension is extremely high/accurate (99th percentile woot!). Describing your book as “not a get rich quick book” does nothing to dispel the illusion that your book is a book about becoming financially rich. In fact it implies that your book IS about getting rich, just in a way that does not involve ethically questionable shortcuts.
So how long will it take for you to fix this error which will most certainly mislead potential customers into thinking your book is something it is not? Should I not hold my breath?
Brownson: In 2 years we haven’t had a single complaint about the copy on the website being misleading. We have also had one return (and that was an ebook), so no I’m not going to change the copy.
I actually don’t like the title and it’s on record that I tried to persuade John to change it, but it was his project and he didn’t want to. So I’m not passing any blame because now I’m behind it.
—
Yep. To read Tolstoy you have to do really hard shit like understand the meaning of words and stuff. Why bother to learn anything when you can just pretend to be whatever you want?
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
@Wanderlost,
Yep, Tim says it’s not about money. Yet his website says this:
“One of the questions I frequently ask Life Coaching clients is;
“If I were to drop $10,000,000 in your bank account this afternoon, after you have presumably thanked me, what would you do next?”
Because, you see, it’s totally not about making money. Oh no, it’s about spiritual riches. $ 10,000,000 worth of spiritual riches, to be exact.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 4:07 am

Dave said:
Geez SD, it’s not very sporting of you to bait the field for the trolls…. Wait, yes it is. Amazing how one small spider web starts catching all kinds of bugs.
More disgusting is how many of the bugs there are.
WINNER!! ::   +24
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 5:34 am

Yakaru said:
shetland-guttersnipe-troll
LOL
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 5:54 am

LifeCoachAndDontEvenKnowIt said:
“I agree with you, Tim. When you have to go look up who ee cummings is (I know that makes me a total ignorant heathen) or have never read Tolstoy (sounds painful)… ”
To wit::
“…When you have to go look up who ee cummings is (I know that makes me a total ignorant heathen)…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings
You ARE an ignorant heathen.
“… or have never read Tolstoy (sounds painful)… ”
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2600
Whew… I can’t believe I did it!  That was uber-really-like-yeh HARD TO DO.
“It’s easier to relate to immediate situations we live in now and people we see every day.”
You mean like this:???
http://www.mtv.com/shows/jersey_shore/season_4/series.jhtml
http://blog.vh1.com/utag/series/basketball-wives/29997/
http://spongebob.nick.com
What kind of modern-mumbo-jumbo BS is that?  I’m guessing the commentator to Tim has never heard of a guy by the name of Santanaya but prefers to reference guys like Santana Moss: “Big-time players step up in big-time games.”
Something I tell my teenage kids all the time is: “Just because you had ‘that’ experience doesn’t mean ‘that’ experience is the only experience anyone can have.  It might be a good idea to read about someone else’s experiences.”
DAMN… I’M A LIFE COACH!    PM me for my rates. 
Have a shitty day today, just like yesterday, and probably tomorrow. 
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 6:22 am

what?? said:
Maybe it’s just me, but I like it when my life coach isn’t a complete moron.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@what?? ::
… so picky
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 6:39 am

Jaime said:
SEO FTW – Salty’s Tim Brownson category is already #3 in Google!
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=UTF-8&q=tim+brownson
Tim Brownson.
  +6
[Reply]

actually... Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:01 am
…no it isn’t.
Google knows you like SD, so it’s put his results higher for you. Here it doesn’t even make the front page.
  +4
[Reply]

Ed Dale Scam Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:26 am
@Jaime, it’s not on the front page for me either. Google does that though. Gives different people slightly different results.
  +1
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:40 am
@Ed Dale Scam, More than slightly different. I highly recommend listening to Eli Pariser’s TED talk on filter bubbles. Actually his book on the same subject is even better, but out of deference to James Chartrand’s, writing coach clients I won’t go so far as to suggest that. Cuz I know reading a whole book is REAL hard for some people. Especially people who want to be and-you-can-too writers!
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@Jaime ::
You can use Incognito mode like @Jack was telling us the other day …
https://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=95464&hl=en-US
… to check without personalization.
It’s currently 9th … but that’s just a baseline because nobody searches like that. There really is no way to say something like “it ranks 3rd” anymore … it’s always different. It’s like trying to measure the exact position of an electron … Heisenberg!
But thanks to Naomi … most of the probloggin’ victim pool just got “personalized” to this here little blog. I’m sure that will work out fine just fine for everybody’s internet monies.
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@SD,
Good points. I had personalization turned off when I made the first comment. Since this morning, my own results have bounced around, but always on the front page.
  +2
[Reply]

SEO is Dead Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:02 am
@Jaime, It’s not exactly a difficult term or competitive term to rank for. Who the fuck wants to rank for “Tim Brownson?” It’s probably more difficult to rank for something equally distasteful like “leprotic midget tits.”
If Google is really taking user metrics into account for ranking, as some “gurus” claim, then that would certainly give this site a boost. I’ve probably spent about an hour reading this post and the comments.
That being said, I need to get back to spamming the SERPS.
  +1
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 6:43 am

for suck's fake said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
So let me get this straight:
This post is here – basically – because Tim Brownson said some things – anonymously – in the comments here that you didn’t like ?
That’s priceless. Seriously, do you even know what the word “irony” means ?
LOSER!! ::   -12
[Reply]

what?? Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:18 am
@for suck’s fake,
No, it’s basically not. Perhaps you could get someone to read the post to you and explain the hard parts.
WINNER!! ::   +16
[Reply]

Spider Turd Tribe Sucks Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:34 am
@for suck’s fake,
So let me get this straight:
Your comment is here – basically – because the Salty Droid said some things – NOT anonymously – in a post that you didn’t like?
That’s priceless. Seriously, do you even know what the word, “psychopath” means?
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +6
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:33 am
@for suck’s fake,

So let me get this straight:

That would be great. If you could please go back through all the comments in Speaking of Spiders and check out all the @Tim Brownson stuff and all the anon Tim Brownson stuff and only then come back here to bitch about it, that would be great. Please go get it straight.

This post is here – basically – because Tim Brownson said some things – anonymously – in the comments here that you didn’t like ?

No. This post is here because @Tim Brownson bounced around all over Speaking of Spiders comments–sometimes as himself and sometimes as one or more anon handles.
He talked on various subjects. But the subject @SD is interested in is the part where, a year or two ago, it seems clear from comments on blogs @Tim Brownson would have very happily played up whatever connection/association he had to Naomi Dunford or Jonny B. Truant.
Now, however, apparently out-of-the-blue, @Tim Brownson came here as a result of the Naomi stuff and proceeded to try and distance himself from Naomi. That behavior is kind of odd. It means either @Tim Brownson is very foolish or else he was feeling very guilty. Because he keeps stating that his connection to Naomi was very tenuous at best. Yet, if that were true, why did he come here of all places? Coming here and commenting a whole bunch about how you don’t have a connection to Naomi is like all kinds of massively suspicious. It’s the one sure-fire {that’s a marketing term btw) way to guarantee you’ll receive @SD’s laser-like focus.
So on the whole, @Tim Brownson seems kinda odd to me. *shrug*

That’s priceless. Seriously, do you even know what the word “irony” means ?

I do. Do you know what RTFA means?
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
@for suck’s fake ::
Seriously, do you even know what the word “irony” means ?
Maybe it’s you asking that question?
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 7:09 am

for sucks's fake said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
OK, let me spell it out. The irony is not what @SD said – which is very little at the end of the day – but *why* he said it. TB has done nothing wrong. Well, maybe he said more than he should have done about a couple of old clients, although the worst of it was in private – until @SD chose to publish it.
The irony is WHY @SD did it – basically because TB pissed him off. By saying things he didn’t like, anonymously, in the comments. Just like all of you (yes, and me).
Priceless.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
@for sucks’s fake ::
… silly rabbit.
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 8:01 am

Boop said:
My reaction to the post:
  -1
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 8:32 am

Rafael Marquez said:
I don’t think that I fully understand what “life coaching” is. I’ve read the brochure and I still don’t see why people would pay a former sales and marketing person for “life coaching” when they can pay less (probably) for a qualified, educated and licensed therapist.
I don’t see how a few hours of “level 1″ (whatever the hell that is) training qualifies someone to be anything other than a “level 1 whatever.” I’ll take my life coaching from someone who has made a lifetime commitment to mental health over some yahoo with a spare $100 on their credit card any day of the week.
WINNER!! ::   +26
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@Rafael Marquez ::
I think you do fully understand.
[Reply]

L. Ron's Cupboard Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@Rafael Marquez,
Think levels of co-dependency. A good example are the levels in Scientology.
At OT Level I, you’re giving hand jobs to e-meters as you start your journey to self-discovery.
By OT Level VIII, you’re jumping on Oprah’s couch trying to stamp out homosexual Thetans for Xenu.
  +5
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 8:34 am

Ed Dale Scam said:
I think Tim (and all the other people listed in the categories with him today) need to realise one thing.
They are scum.
Internet marketing, make money online, life coaching and all the other stuff they push. It’s all lies and junk all pushed around by each other. The sad thing is just how many people this crap infects. A lot of people really trusted Naomi because she lied to them to get their trust. Same goes for Darren Rowse, the only difference with Darren is that people STILL think he’s one of the good guys.
Anyone who has ever shilled for or been shilled by the syndicate is part of the syndicate and part of the problem.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
@Ed Dale Scam ::
They are scum.
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 8:34 am

Tim Brownson said:
Yeh thanks Salty.
I did presume the e-mails were in confidence and I was just helping straighten a few things about. And yeh as somebody pointed out above that really was a rookie mistake.
I presume you’ll remove the photo of Belcher and Risley seeing as lots of people will scan and think that was me and I know Belcher, which I do not. I know you’re a bastion of truth so will want to retain the credibility.
Other than snippets from the Belcher deal I hadn’t read here before so I wasn’t prepared for what lay ahead.
I was suckered, pure and simple.
Do I regret posting.
Yes and no.
Yes because this sucks.
But no because I still believe in people like Jonathan Fields, Ali Luke (Hale), Michael Martine, Jade Craven and think they are good people that caught a bad deal and were being ripped for just being there.
I would have been being spineless to have ignored that.
Actually, my only regret is that I didn’t post openly from day one. Well that and the stupid post about Daves (or was it Anthony) wifes qualifications. I completely misread that and thought they were referring to Emotional Freedom Technique. – My bad and I apologize.
I know I’m going to get ripped, but as long as people keep to the facts that’s cool.
Rip me for being naive
Rip me for being a rookie
Rip me for trusting that private e-mails were private
But unless you have worked with me or know me, don’t rip me on my coaching ability.
Of course you can see snippets of conversation and as such can judge me, but if you want to know me, speak to me, or read my stuff, or even talk to people that do know me.
In fact I’ll send free copies of any of my ebooks to anybody that wants them and then you can really make your mind up. Except that is How To Be Rich and Happy, because that’s not mine to give, unless that is you’re flat broke, in which case it is.
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]

Boop Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:41 am
@Tim Brownson,
Would it be a bad thing that my spiritual “riches” were seeing others ripped into online? Cause right now, I’m Scrooge McDuck.
  +4
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:45 am
@Tim Brownson,
I gave you a thumbs up for your honesty.
But Tim, you still don’t get it.
You write: “Rip me for trusting that private e-mails were private”.
The fact is, that you have no business sharing that private information about your clients with ANY stranger. Regardless of who that stranger is. You just happened to pick someone that loves exposes and writes them up in funny ways.
You can’t even share that information with another colleague unless your client gives you permission. That’s how confidentiality in a regulated profession works, which you claim you want.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:53 am
@KG, I didn’t share any info. Nothing in the e-mail wasn’t ‘out there’ either via blog posts or testimonials. I actually refused to comment on the work we did in 2 separate e-mails. And bear in mind he’s taking snippets.
My mistake was offering an opinion at the end based on her opinion of Michael Martine. That was stupid.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   0
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:32 am
@Tim Brownson,
Perhaps I’m not explaining myself well.
It doesn’t matter whether or not you divulged the details of your communications with your clients. ‘Out there’ is only your perceptions. To some clients, what you wrote would be way, way ‘out there’. It doesn’t matter.
Here’s an example:
“She came to me for coaching about 2.5 years ago. As you can imagine she didn’t come to me because her life was great.”
I think you cannot see this as a breach because your training does not allow you to differentiate between professional behaviour and non-professional behaviour.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:20 am
@KG, Fair enough.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
@KG ::
Exactly!
Here’s a shortcut for you Tim Brownson :: since you’ll never have any actual professional training …
Any sentence you write to snark reporter about a client that ends :: “but I’m sure you can join the dots” :: is a violation of your duty of confidentially.
Lucky for you “life coaching” is a non-professional fake thing.
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:19 pm
@SD,
I would give you a +1 Thumbs up for that one if the site let me.
I keep trying not to say lots of mean things to-or-about @Tim Brownson because I think he genuinely thinks he’s one of the good guys doing good things.
Except he’s not. Instead, he’s one of the masses doing fake things and thinking that it’s real because after he’s finished his client reports feeling better and thanking him.
I used to think that way too. Then one day I read The Demon Haunted Darkness by Carl Sagan. It took a while for the book to really sink in. Changing ones core beliefs is a bitch. Eventually, it came to me that, that kind of reasoning: “I felt better therefore it worked!” just isn’t good enough in determining if a particular substance or activity is actually having the effect you believe it’s having. That’s why medications have to pass double blind studies for both safety and effectiveness before they can go on the market. But you know that already of course. :-)
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
WINNER!! ::   +7

Kenny Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:04 am
@SD, Even just revealing that someone is your client, and nothing more, is a violation of duty if the client hasn’t given prior authorization.
In regulated professions, a signed consent form specifying the scope of disclosure, and to whom, would also be required.
Of course, if that became an issue, he could just take up a more suitable hobby, like sculpting balloon animals. The giraffes are especially cool.
  +5

Dave Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:53 am
@Tim Brownson, There is a lesson to be learned here. Read more, talk less. Had you really looked around, you would have found this little gem from the past, and maybe you would not have been quite so stupid. But I doubt it.
http://saltydroid.info/sean-mcalister-gets-got/
You’re welcome.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:54 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Dave, For sure there is. I walked into a trap, I get that. None of us are too old to learn.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

Tabbs Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:40 am
@Tim Brownson, How wrong can you be? You didn’t walk into a trap. You aren’t a victim. That’s rationalization. You let your ego drive the car and unload your baggage on a public curb. Blame your ego!
Any “life coach” would tell you that. Maybe you should go see one. Or better yet, don’t. Go see a real professional.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:01 am
@Tim Brownson,
There was no trap, you were trying to cover your arse by cosying up to SD–and dumping your client in the shit as payment.
How many clients will read that and decide that they will not trust themselves to you–since you have shown that you do not have their best interests at heart, but only your own?
There is a great ethical divide between Always Be Closing, ‘get the sale at any price’ sales methods and dealing with the frailties of vulnerable human beings. Had you taken an accredited professional training you would have been taught that.
WINNER!! ::   +21
[Reply]

BananaTaco Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
That is awesome. Exceedingly well put.
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@stoic ::
His big mistake was not starting off by telling me that I’m the greatest writer who ever lived … apparently he hasn’t read his copy of the pathetic bastard handbook.
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:47 am
@Tim Brownson, “None of us are too old to learn.”
Wisdom from a LIFE COACH!
  +3
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:03 am
@Tim Brownson,
You don’t seem to get it. SD quoted a series of damning comments that you’ve made on this blog using thirteen separate identities. Did you just lose your head; get caught up in the drama?
The strange thing is you remain convinced that what you do is worthy of being called a career.
I’m all for helping people (as a real friend, not paid-for friend), but you appear to be selling advice with basically no qualifications. There are degrees, books, entire departments at universities that focus on the same problems you claim to help solve.
Is there a reason you’re avoiding getting formal credentials in therapy, psychology, and similar topics? It’s not that I agree with everything people in these fields would say. Rather, that “life coaches” appear to be seeking a back-door to wealth and celebrity based on … nothing … except their own claims, of course.
How does one come to the decision of being a “life coach” exactly? (Damn, it’s hard to make money actually doing stuff, but I like to talk on the phone …)
You ask insightful questions that cause people to rethink their situations? (“And how do you feel about that? …”)
You figure out that people will pay you $$ to have you ask them these questions? (Let’s face it, many people lack the ability to be introspective.)
You just like to talk on the phone a lot? (You do, right?)
Do you like to feel needed? (Because without this “job” … nobody would?)
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:45 am
@Tim Brownson,
‘Other than snippets from the Belcher deal I hadn’t read here before so I wasn’t prepared for what lay ahead.
I was suckered, pure and simple.’
I’m not a life coach but I’ve done some living so I’ll give you a hint: cut your losses Tim Brownson, you are banging your head against a brick wall here and it feels really great when you stop.
You weren’t suckered–you just didn’t do your homework, not a great recommendation for someone purporting to give informed advice professionally ( professionally as in ‘for pay’)
Go away quietly and do some homework–get a counselling credential or something–it hurts less in the long run.
Weren’t you ever a boy scout? ‘Be prepared’ and all that? It’s half the battle at getting through sticky life situations in one piece.
And I didn’t even need to consult a life coach for that little nugget of wisdom–it came free the first time I got bitch-slapped for not doing my homework.
Duh. Engage brain. Stop defending the indefensible, start some joined-up thinking. Its even fun, who knows where it might lead?
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
I presume you’ll remove the photo of Belcher and Risley seeing as lots of people will scan and think that was me and I know Belcher, which I do not. I know you’re a bastion of truth so will want to retain the credibility.
You’re such a bad presumer.
I’m not sure how people could mistake you for Risley :: you have no hair … and you’re no taller than Belcher. But if you click on the pic it will go through to a David Risley post which you commented on. I know how much you hate Perry Belcher because you also said this to me by email …
Interesting that Dean Hunts name came up because I dumped that guy when he told me he was friends with perry Belcher. I e-mailed him back and said “You do know that fucker sold placebo meds to old people and was run out of Florida, right?
He replied that he knew and he thought Perry had MAYBE crossed the line.
After that bs I unfollowed him and stopped any communication with him.
… so I assumed that you’d want to go leave another comment on the Risley blog about blogging regarding the dangers of believing in a Belcher.
Oh and it was actually run out of Tennessee … but I shouldn’t expect you to know that knowing how much you struggle with reading comprehension.
[Reply]

LisaSimpson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
@Tim Brownson,
But the question still is – WHAT IS COACHING? what possible value could you offer to anyone that actually adds to anything besides your bottom line?
  +2
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
@LisaSimpson,
And to that question–this is where the skeptic gets a tad cynical. Time and again, it is the case that if it’s that hard to determine what something is… then that is a something that… ain’t.
I mean: if it is so very hard to pin down just exactly what “life coaching” is, then until such time as new information comes in, I believe it is safe to assume that “life coaching” is nothing; just some guy saying, “Hi. I’m a life coach.” and asking people to pay him for advice.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +5
[Reply]

Shit storm Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:09 am
@Tim Brownson,
Don’t rip you on your coaching ability/
What planet are you from?
You’re being ripped because you are a COACH…
The point you obviously don’t care to admit is this:
Coaching is scamming…and everyone knows it
you can talk all that ‘ I help people’ shit all you want
  +3
[Reply]

Random stuff Reply:
July 19th, 2012 at 5:02 am
@Tim Brownson, you troll, in the original sense of the word, like a rookie fishermen, with hooks out of the back of his boat, for any vulnerable person surfing the net to go to you, and somehow, with no formal training, you will help them? Naah. They will just help you get a tad richer. Your marvelous video on how not to be funny seems to portray you as one not very nice person. If there was even a handful of people who really had benefited from you, they should comment on this site to defend you. Surely? Oh no. All I need to do is to go to your site, and see your genuine testimonials. Sorry.
  0
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 8:34 am

Tim Brownson said:
And regarding the money thing.
30% of my time is pro bono work and working on How to Be Rich and Happy. Like taking all day off on Friday to deliver 500 books to Florida Gulf Coast University.
I also have some medical issues (largely a blood disorder) that mean I cannot work as long hours as some people.
I don’t tell people I can help them make more money, that’s not my job. But again, let’s not the facts get in the way.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:11 am
@Tim Brownson,
Wait, above you said the title and part of the book’s content was by your co-author. Is his intention to tell people how to make money? Who the hell cares what your (supposed) intentions are, if you’re distributing the book with a title as misleading as “How to be Rich and Happy?”
You’re saying that giving students at FGCU this material is a good thing? How will it help them on their way to earning degrees for real careers? How are you qualified to give them such advice, Mr ex-salesman life coach?
Rather than tell people how to get money, you tell them how to get a life?
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Darren Rowse Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:18 am
@Jaime, It’s scary isn’t it. They should all quite college and come over to my blog and see how to make money online. Everyone knows that I am a stand up guy and all I want to do is help people make money online ;)
  -3
[Reply]

Darren Rowse Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Tim Brownson, answer me this Tim. What do you think of my blog? I do claim to teach people how to make money and I also claim to make a fortune with my blog.
So, what do you think of my blog now that you claim that you don’t tell people that you can help them make more money? Are we still friends and part of the same team or not?
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:20 am
@Tim Brownson,
Tim, I think you’re generally a decent person with a good heart. I don’t think you’re out to scam anyone and I believe that you desire to be helpful to your clients.
But here’s a few unsolicited tips from me.
1. Let other people tell others about your “hero” story. Not you yourself. If it’s worth pumping up, others will do it for you, you won’t need to do it for yourself. (i.e. humility goes a long way)
2. Learn more about professional conduct and confidentiality. When you utilize this in your career, you will be more credible and more effective.
3. No matter how much you despise a client (for whatever reason – after all, we don’t get along with everyone do we?) – keep it to yourself. It’s professional, and it’s best for the client.
4. Let your friends and colleagues stand up for themselves. You don’t have to be anyone’s fake white knight. Your friends and colleagues will sink or swim on their own merit. The best way to be a friend to them, is to talk with them and support them in private.
I wish you the best in your health.
(P.S. I remain skeptical about the “bad” publicity/more traffic angle. I remain skeptical because people are very weird. I mean, I still don’t understand how James Ray still has supporters and people who hang off his non-inspirational tweets with all that is happened.)
WINNER!! ::   +25
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:24 am
Oh yeah, one more thing Tim.
5. Don’t put your name on the cover of a book that you believe to be misleading. Write your own book or forget about books completely. That way you can be congruent with your own values in life.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:24 am
@KG, That I stand by and always will.
We offer a 100% money back guarantee even on the hard copy of the book. So if anybody feels misled, they can ask for there money back. One person has in 2 years.
We want to help people understand it isn’t just about the money and if we’d written a book called “Happiness isn’t about money” Nobody would have bought it.
It’s pain with charities because we have to explain that, although weirdly about 75% of the books have gone to Churches all over the US, and the feedback has been cool.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -2
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:47 am
@Tim Brownson,
Again Tim, you’re missing the point.
Misrepresenting yourself, your ideas, and your values, displays a lack of integrity.
The title of your book plays into the desire for wealth, the greed and the instant gratification that is rampant in our society. If the contents of the book are the opposite of that which your title suggests, this is dishonest and it’s dishonest marketing IMO.
I also think that trying to trick people into buying the book with a title that misrepresents itself, suggests that you think very little of your readers.
Honesty IMHO is always the best policy. Perhaps you weren’t creative enough to come up with a title that both grabbed your readers attention AND represented the book’s contents accurately.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:54 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@KG, Ok on this we’re going to have to agree to differ. We’re not trying to trick anybody, we genuinely believe they can feel rich and happy if they read it and implement the strategies.
We are using our interpretation of the word and that is just as valid.
We’re trying to get 1,000,000 copies of the book into the hands of people that can’t afford it, and as I said we haven’t had a single complaint, so I’m, happy with that.
Was Salty being dishonest placing a picture of David Risley with Perry Belcher knowing people would think that it was me?
LOSER!! ::   -4

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@KG, What would you call the book?
LOSER!! ::   -6

BananaTaco Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Wrong. I would have bought it. On the other hand, I would never buy your ‘How to Get Rich and Happy’ *because* of the title.
  +4
[Reply]

T.J. Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:48 am
@KG, I think this part you said to Tim should have its own number, and maybe forty foot high letters:
“humility goes a long way”
  +2
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:34 am
@KG, You make some good points and I’m fully aware I screwed up.
As for speaking up for myself, the reality is people are scared to do it for me.
Maybe some will do it anonymously and get ripped as being sent by me, but who in their right mind will come out in the open to defend me when they can see what happened to me for stepping out into the open to defend others?
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +4
[Reply]

Jeffrey Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:33 am
@Tim Brownson,
“As for speaking up for myself, the reality is people are scared to do it for me.”
Perhaps they aren’t “scared” so much as they are embarrassed by your own conduct. There really is no defense for poor conduct, and conjuring it up for chummy reasons is itself deplorable.
You really can’t seem to own up to your own actions. You are so quick on defensiveness. How can you possibly “coach” if you cannot truly learn?
  +6
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jeffrey, Keep pick and choosing.. you’re doing a good job.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

Hamstring Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Bud Hennekes, If you stop kissing ass you will look a lot less shitty.
LOSER!! ::   -5

not really Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jeffrey,
“Perhaps they aren’t “scared” so much as they are embarrassed by your own conduct. ”
I’m posting anonymously because I’ve seen what happens to other people who use their names here.
Not exactly “scared”, but definitely suspicious.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@KG, I came to his defense and I was ridiculed like crazy. And the funny thing was he didn’t put me up to it. It was my honest to God opinion.
People have no spines these days and are far too quick to criticize.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +3
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@Bud Hennekes,
So what?
I don’t take issue with you Bud, and I believe you when you say you have received benefit from Tim’s coaching.
However, being in a position of trust, you must agree that Tim has shown a lack of integrity with the things he has written.
My questions to you are as follows. With all that you now know about Tim, would you still hire him as your life coach? If yes, then why?
If yes, what would a life coach have to do for you to stop supporting him/her with your $$$?
I’m curious as to where people draw the line for themselves in order to stop supporting people who have shown some lack of integrity.
  +6
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@Bud Hennekes,
I’ll try to post again as the other one didn’t seem to work.
What would I call the book?
That’s a toughy. I don’t have marketing experience and I didn’t read the book.
But I’ll take a stab: “How To Have Enriching Relationships: anywhere, anytime, with yourself, or anyone important to you”
At the very least, that’s more honest.
The most truthful line I’ve read on the Salty Droid website was from a Joe Vitale blog. The robot himself wrote:
“Success in life is about building stable long term relationships with people that matter to you … people you love … that love you back. IMO :: measuring success by income level is insanity. It writes off the majority of Earth’s population as unsuccessful! Bullshit.”
Another title could be: “Success is Loving People That Matter To You and Getting it Back: everything else is bullshit’
I have to go now and take my little red pill for my addiction to this website, in order to get something productive done today.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Pee Wee Reply:
October 9th, 2011 at 11:39 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@KG,
Otherwise good advise from where I stand, so that might qualify you as a “coach” of so e sorts :). Quick, some trademark the life-blog coach title :))
Only one incongruence the way I see it, so maybe you can elaborate further
1. Let other people tell others about your “hero” story. Not you yourself. If it’s worth pumping up, others will do it for you, you won’t need to do it for yourself. (i.e. humility goes a long way).
4. Let your friends and colleagues stand up for themselves. You don’t have to be anyone’s fake white knight. Your friends and colleagues will sink or swim on their own merit. The best way to be a friend to them, is to talk with them and support them in private.
If you don’t have any 1′s then #4 would apply and in this case Tim has taken the #4 approach for himself. That being said, the client confidentiality thing has totally flown over his head. C’mon Tim, your motives in emailing SD were total self-preserving and in doing so, you did breach confidentiality no matter how you spin it. Most everyone can see it. You could have just removed her testimonial and say you no longer work with her and leave it at that.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 8:16 am
@Pee Wee,
I’m so glad you are so perfect and never make any mistakes or do or say anything wrong or that you may later regret in your own life and day to day activities — you must be the only one in the world then. And yes, I love Salty and believe in what he does here, but I also still believe that Tim is a nice guy and that he means well and even does some good in this world, as opposed to all the JARs and Naomis and Eben Pagans aka David DeAngelos, et al. Until I see evidence of otherwise, I will continue to disagree with Salty on this one, but so far, I have not seen it.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
“Giving” away stupid “books” is not charity :: it’s marketing.
Conspicuous charity that you never shut up about isn’t charity :: it’s marketing.
Calling your marketing your charity is lying … very very lame lying.
PS :: mentioning your own health conditions is also very weaksauce … don’t you have a preemie you could tell us about?
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
@SD,
Giving away unsold books that you probably have cartons of in your basement is not charity. And bragging about your charitable efforts reminds me of a Spider Lady who bragged about building a school in Cambodia. I’m still waiting to see proof of that claim.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 8:40 am

Tim Brownson is an asshat said:
Okay Tim. You said not to talk about your coaching unless we have experience with you personally. Before I realized better, I tried to enter one of you “free coaching” contests.
You had really specific guidelines. I followed them.
Then you did a post of “all of these suck; I’m calling it off”. Only you didn’t. You were manipulating people into begging.
I wrote you an email and said you were being manipulative.
So you sent me a free copy of your Rich and Happy book.
I wrote back to say thank you (because my grandmother taught me to do that), but did say I still thought you were a jerk for screwing with people like that.
You wrote back and were all defensive that I called you a jerk. You said that you’re actually a very good Life Coach thankyouverymuch and that my opinion was out of line and wrong.
Well, there you have it. When someone challenges your methods and/or behavior, you tell them they’re wrong and move on.
You.
Are.
An.
Asshat.
WINNER!! ::   +22
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:27 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Tim Brownson is an asshat, I wasn’t manipulating people into begging at all. I was trying to find out who was serious because I had so many people apply. I even told a story in the post about somebody doing the exact same thing in St Louis, but you never spotted it. Most did and realized I wasn’t really closing it down.
And sorry you didn’t get free coaching and only a free book, and glad to see you’re not bitter about it.
LOSER!! ::   -9
[Reply]

Jeffrey Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:47 am
@Tim Brownson, You are astonishingly juvenile and immature.
“And sorry you didn’t get free coaching and only a free book, and glad to see you’re not bitter about it.”
Do you have NO self control?
You respond to a comment with posturing, playing to others who might be reading, and then you simply can’t resist tacking on a caustic, juvenile slap.
You do this time, and time again. This blog is peppered with your droppings.
It’s nearly incredible how you, a supposed “life coach” CHOOSE to regress to such juvenilism in full public view.
This has been pointed out previously, multiple times, yet you persist in making yourself look like a tool.
Utterly incredible.
WINNER!! ::   +25
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jeffrey, What’s utterly incredible IMO is how many people are so quick to judge him without ANY knowledge aside from this blog on who he really is.
Could Tim have responded in a more mature manner? Absolutely. But to 99 percent of the people here he never even stood a chance.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
@Bud Hennekes,
When you hired Tim Brownson to help you in your life, you didn’t hire him for ‘who he really is.’ You paid him money to teach you some life skills that you thought you lacked–as you presumed a life coach would have the knowledge to be able to fill in the gaps you couldn’t see for yourself.
On his showing here he can only parrot Naomi’s disastrous take on the world–that lying, deception and scamming is the way to go–a hard sell for useless rubbish, in other words.
‘Who he really is’ is his business–whether he could teach you anything of value should be yours.
He ain’t looking good to me.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@Jeffrey, It is indeed. I started to reply to Tim but I’m too gobsmacked by this latest self-exposure. A potential client complains and he defends himself by jeering at him for not “spotting” that he wasn’t REALLY intending to close the contest when he said he was closing the contest?? Who DOES this kind of thing?? The mind boggles.
  +5
[Reply]

Tim Brownson is an asshat Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
@Tim Brownson, really? That’s your response? Wow.
Never mind with anything resembling substance. That’s okay.
Go back and read my comment again. It had NOTHING to do with the outcome of free book/no coaching. It had EVERYTHING to do with your behavior toward me in the process.
And, sorry bucko, but manipulation was EXACTLY what you were doing. Go look up the definition. I’ll wait. You can couch your manipulation any way you want to ease your conscience, but manipulation was exactly what you were about.
You challenged someone to come at you about what you think of as your substance … meaning your coaching skills. Based on our unpaid-for interaction, you ain’t got ‘em.
As to bitterness, I’m not. You revealing your true self through those email interactions lifted the veil from my eyes and walked me back from the abyss of your “discipline.” So actually, I thank you for being an asshat.
So, thanks Tim, for being an asshat.
Enjoy your life.
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]

Pee Wee Reply:
October 9th, 2011 at 11:46 am
@Tim Brownson,
Oh so you lied about closing down = manipulation.
Seriously Tim, shut UP
  +2
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 9:57 am

bohica said:
props once again salty for a post well done. in this case your boy brownson stepped in it all by himself. sometimes I guess your blog self-perpetuates! a beautiful thing indeed.
oh, and ending with a Tolstoy quote was ACE!
(because presumably your readers are so stupid, what with our pitchforks and all…)
so then… helloooooo James Chartrand – the *woman* behind *men with pens*.
(which I still don’t understand – see previous parenthesis…)
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +6
[Reply]

LisaSimpson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:39 am
@bohica, “James” felt she could make more money as a man – so she lied to clients until she got outed. But still operates from Men with Penis. (spelling error intentional)
http://www.copyblogger.com/james-chartrand-underpants/
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:58 am
@LisaSimpson,
Here’s Coach Brownson giving some of his invaluable advice just two days ago on his blog:
“Deliberately not finishing a thriller you’re enjoying reading
Applying for a job that you know nothing about
Refusing to watch the last episode of a TV series you like
Signing a house rental agreement that is only month-to-month
Refusing to make plans for a Saturday night until 7.00pm
Saying “Surprise me’ to the waiter who asks you want you want to order for dinner
Setting off to the airport on vacation with no idea where you are going to fly to
Publishing a blog post that may be complete bollocks”
It sounds like Coach Brownson took his own advice in applying for a job he knew nothing about.
And ask any waiter how he/she feels about idiots who say “Surprise me!” It’s almost as bad as the morons who say ” What’s good here?” Asking to be surprised is just begging to have a plate of clam linguine upended on your head.
Oh, and Coach Brownson’s advice on going to the airport with no destination?! I almost fell off of my chair laughing at that piece of coaching. In this day and age? Seriously? Why not just wear a sign saying ” Terrorist Hijacker”? Maybe he also suggests trying to pay cash for a ticket. TSA here we come…
And that month-to-month rental agreement? Maybe if you’re a “life coach” living a hand to mouth existence but for people with actual jobs, not such a good idea. Leases and rental agreements protect both renters and landlords.
But he does have the complete bollocks part down pat.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 10:05 am

Harley said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Wow, I’m guessing you guys are all perfect and have absolutely no skeletons in your cupboards.
I think you should all be very careful, any association with this website means you are now open to lies and allegations that have been manipulated by some evil Droid, who for some reason is able to also manipulate replies so they do not appear if anyone actually has the balls to disagree with what he is doing.
Good luck to you all. What an absolutely total waste of time and intelligence.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

LisaSimpson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:54 am
@Harley, It’s not about being perfect. It’s about not expecting the world to pay you for your useless “skills”.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@LisaSimpson, And htf do you know my skills are useless, where was that expose, I must have missed it? I have worked with about 500 clients from all over the world, go and talk to them if you want to know what I’m like.
And I don’t EXPECT anybody to do anything. I’m here, if they WANT to hire me they can, if they don’t, they wont.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:30 am
@Tim Brownson,
‘And htf do you know my skills are useless….’
Tim, you are demonstrating your lack of nous and lack of life-skills right here.
When in a hole, stop digging.
If you did a proper job it would stand on its own merits and would need no defence.
‘Skill’ at anything is properly evaluated by one’s customers and peers. If you had that acknowledgement you wouldn’t be here fire-fighting.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

LisaSimpson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
@Tim Brownson, Hire you for what though – what is coaching? what value to the world do coaches offer besides inspiring other people to be coaches? Every coach about page that I’ve ever seen is either about them having a low point in their lives and being inspired by a coach so they started became one. Or that they were in a “dead end” corporate job and got inspired to coach.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@Harley, “manipulated by some evil Droid, who for some reason is able to also manipulate replies so they do not appear if anyone actually has the balls to disagree” See the red words that say, “Click here to see”? that means if you click them you get to see what’s written! Magic! Suddenly you too will be as perfect as the rest of us. Not that we aspire to your levels of genius…
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

hrmmm Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
@Harley,
Yes, through some mysterious computer voodoo known as “Intense Debate” the Droid has used his technological powers for evil and, instead of deleting comments outright as most blog moderators do, simply allows his readers to vote them down.
You sound like a moron when you talk.
  +6
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 10:26 am

Tim Brownson said:
I’m going to make one last comment and then bow out because for the majority of people here, nothing I could ever say or do would make a difference.
I have been ripped for living hand to mouth doing something I love because it doesn’t pay that well when I only see 3 clients per day, which is my maximum.
But I would have been ripped if I was earning big dollars because that just means I’m scamming people.
I was ripped for saying I do pro bono stuff because that’s not being humble.
But when an ex client of mine did come and post in my support, he was ripped too. Not really surprising people are loathe to do that when its sport not debate.
I was ripped for posting anonymously (and NO I did not use 13 different aliases!) even though 90% of people here are anonymous.
But I was also ripped for being stupid enough to post under my own name.
I was ripped for defending people that I think are good people like Jonathan Fields, Ali Hale, Jade Craven and I’ll even add Johnny B Truant to that list because I defended him in one of my e-mails to Salty but he edited that out.
Could they all be scammers? I guess so, but to me they have always seemed like really decent, caring people.
And I was ripped for defending Naomi Dunford even though I NEVER did
I was ripped for saying the sleazy bastard line – even though it was out of context and it was in response to IF she made the death threats up.
And I was rightly ripped for that btw, I am pissed at myself for letting my frustration boil over in a private e-mail. I was 100% wrong with that and hold my hands up as well as being 100% wrong that I thought I was talking in confidence (and no I’m trying to excuse myself – I fucked up!)
I had a picture of somebody else standing next to Perry Belcher so as to mislead people into thinking I knew the guy. Never met him, never spoken to him, never interacted with him whatsoever. But worry not because most people wont read this comment and so will continue to think I am in some way connected to him.
There are no unhappy client stories, no stories of me ripping anybody off, no claims that I am not qualified, no stories about me promising people a perfect life and then not delivering. In fact go and read my post Let’s Stop The Self Development Bullshit Shall We if you want my take on the happy-clappy brigade.
But I doubt you do, cuz Salty has spoken and I’m the scum of the earth.
It’s one thing to go after people and try and bring them down because they are ripping off innocent people, but Salty hasn’t, and will not, find one person I have ripped off.
Did you read that?
HE WILL NOT FIND ONE PERSON THAT I HAVE RIPPED OFF.
Because there aren’t any. And you probably already think I’m stupid, but do you really think I’m stupid enough to wave that red flag under his nose if there’s a queue of disgruntled clients?
But, isn’t that what this blog is all about? Exposing people who are ripping others off. Exposing people who just like to line their own pockets at the expense of others and don’t give a damn how they do it?
Or is it that now anybody that has the audacity to speak up deserves the same treatment because they pissed Salty off.
WINNER!! ::   +34
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Actually there was one other thing I feel bad about and that was I misread the credentials of Christine. I jumped the gun and thought they were referring to EMT, but it was a genuine mistake. A dumb mistake, but a mistake nonetheless that I apologize unreservedly for.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +6
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:50 am
SHIT! Not EMT, EFT – in other words Emotional Freedom Technique.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   0
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Tim Brownson,
I thought you promised it was your last post? Just more empty words, right Coach?
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Barbara, Hmm…. I never saw the word ‘promise’ said anywhere…
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1
[Reply]

Uh Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
@Tim Brownson, I guess what you’ve said to others, “Don’t let facts get in the way,” was actually literal advice then. At least if nobody calls you on it.
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
Oh don’t go yet you shetland-guttersnipe shiteater … I just got here!
Dig harder :: you’re almost to Guangdong …
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, Guangdong is overrated. Shanghai is where it’s at.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Glad I Was Broke Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@Tim Brownson,
You said:
“It’s one thing to go after people and try and bring them down because they are ripping off innocent people, but Salty hasn’t, and will not, find one person I have ripped off.
Did you read that?
HE WILL NOT FIND ONE PERSON THAT I HAVE RIPPED OFF.
Because there aren’t any.”
And I say: I wonder what would you say when SD finds those people. Should be fascinating to see.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1
[Reply]

Hal (the original Hal) Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@Tim Brownson,
“I have been ripped for living hand to mouth doing something I love because it doesn’t pay that well when I only see 3 clients per day, which is my maximum.
But I would have been ripped if I was earning big dollars because that just means I’m scamming people.
I was ripped for saying I do pro bono stuff because that’s not being humble.”
Reading through all the responses you seemed to have been ripped more for perpetuating your unrepentant unicorn bull-shittery than how much money you did or didn’t make.
Just because life coaching is not regulated doesn’t mean you’re properly qualified to be a life coach.
Just because we haven’t seen a ton of complaints against you, doesn’t mean you haven’t harmed someone.
I mean c’mon, what kind of responsible professional (of anything) recommends you show up an airport to go on a vacation, not knowing where you’re going?
What do you suppose would happen if some doe-eyed NLP/dancing unicorn chaser named Mohammed showed up at JFK and tried that stunt?
Of course we’d never hear a complaint from him because he’d probably end up like Maher Arar.
Shouldn’t life coaches at least have common sense to impart to their pupils?
Btw … nobody here rips legitimate online business people, even if they make billions (e.g. Amazon, Apple, etc.).
Nor do people get ripped when they confess how little they make (e.g. Jade Craven) … in fact, they are respected for their honesty (which on the whole lacks for too much of the IM industry).
However, people DO get ripped when they lie, deceive, misrepresent, mislead and exploit others in a deliberate manner for profit (e.g. Bernie Madoff and the entire Unikern Family).
Not that you’ve by any means reached the Syndicate low, but your alias postings, bait and switch book title, strange bed-fellows and idiotic life coaching advise don’t exactly boost your credibility with a lot of the readers here.
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
@Hal (the original Hal) ::
Not that you’ve by any means reached the Syndicate low
I wouldn’t be so sure. Clark was pushing Syndicate crap hard … talking about all his cosy little meetings with his “heroes” Walker and Kern. Me suspects that he was about to officially become Syndicate before last October’s beginning of the end of Syndicate dominance.
A supporter of the machine is a supporter of the machine.
Ignorance is an unacceptably poor excuse considering the horrid outcomes of machine support :: which can be summed up in two words …
Boiler Rooms
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 11:37 am

Barbara said:
More from Coach Brownson:
“Unfortunately, not every client responds to that approach as well as the theory suggests, so I definitely step out of that model from time to time and into more of a “Let me show you” type of roll.”
“Strictly speaking the Life Coaching Police could probably have me beaten to a bloody pulp for acting in such a manner…”
So, Coach, you step out of that “roll”, do you? Just what I want! A life coach who misspells simple words.
And when are those Coaching Police going to finally show up to beat you to a bloody pulp? Because I know a couple of hundred people who would like to be there.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
@Barbara ::
… maybe if the Coaching Police won’t do it we can recruit the LAPD … they have most of the expertise.
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 12:15 pm

Barbara said:
The Grifter’s Art or How Coach Brownson Recruits His Marks, I Mean His Pigeons, No, His Victims, His Clients!, That’s The Word:
“I know from experience how hard it is to make money as a Life Coach and that a lot of coaches are under the gun at the moment.”
“Unfortunately, as the almost 400 Life Coach training companies in the US continue spit out Life Coach after Life Coach, it isn’t likely to get easier any time soon.”
“Here we will take a close look at values. I will teach you how I do the process with my clients as well as giving you my forms to brand.”
“How Much Is It?” I don’t do a package like this at the moment, but if/when I do, it will probably be in the region of $1,200.”
“However, I’m willing to take on two people for only $597* per person!”
“I’ve closed comments on this post.”
“THIS OFFER IS NOW CLOSED – THANKS TO ALL OF YOU THAT APPLIED!”
**************************************************************************
Is that the atificial scarcity technique I see there, Coach Brown? And that closing comments idea, that’s golden, straight from Naomi’s blog. Why listen to pesky dissenting voices when you can just listen to the sound of your own voice?
So for a mere $597 Coach Brownson will teach you his grift. I’d like to know, do you include teaching the Spanish Prisoner con in that package or is that separate?
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:52 am
@Barbara,
And the price ends in a “7″. The IMers do that a lot as well. I mean in a store, most prices, before tax, still end in a “.99″ or occasionally a “.98″. But here again, as with so many IMers we have a price ending in “7″. Maybe there’s a special marketing rule that says that if the price is going to be in whole dollars, it should end in “7″ instead of “9″…
(I know the $1200 breaks the pattern, but it doesn’t count so much. It’s not a “real” price in itself it’s just the price buildup price. E.g. “How much would you pay for this brand new thingamajig? $400? $700? $10,000? Well hold on to your hats because you can have this for the low, low price of $200 in just 134 1/2 easy payments of $1.49 each!”)
[P.S. Google Chrome spell correct recognizes "thingamajig" as a valid word.]
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:12 am
@Wyrd ::
Maybe there’s a special marketing rule that says that if the price is going to be in whole dollars, it should end in “7″ instead of “9″…
… it’s funny cause it’s true.
You don’t need to be very smart to sell unicorns :: and all unicorns know that all unicorns end in seven.
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:44 am
@Wyrd,
One of the unicorns over at the Unicorn Warrior Forum admits, “[W]e all use 7 in a [unicorn] herd mentality.”
http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/5083-prices-ending-7-a.html#post43530
  +4
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 2:17 pm

mojo said:
Perspective is an interesting creature. Where Brownson sees being “suckered” and “trapped”, I see Salty’s usual over-generosity of rope. The petard and the hoisting part, on the other hand, appear to be all DIY. (Petard has an alternate meaning of farting, you know. Yep, fart jokes in Hamlet. Keeps the groundlings amused, much as Salty does with his robotic potty mouth.)
While I recognize this is closing the barn door after all the livestock have escaped, Internet Technology 101 teaches us two primary things: first, that NO email is EVER private no matter WHO you send it to, and second, that the “delete” key does NOTHING beyond the hard drive directly attached to it. What with automated backups and archives and all, once you send something into cyberspace, it’s out there for good. Given some people’s behavior on the internet, I’m thinking culturally this fact has yet to be fully grasped, given all the young people who keep putting up ill-advised drunken pictures of themselves that fairly scream, “Look at me! I’m a keg pig!”
For an alternate case study, I would suggest sitting and watching how Jade Craven has been handling things instead of blindly rushing in to protect her, however well-intentioned the actions. I don’t think I’m alone in how impressed I’ve been with Jade and her interactions with the crowd here. And my impression is, for the most part, she’s been likewise treated with respect, and I rather hope she remains as a regular. There are several female regulars here; I suppose I’m one of them, though historically (Old Fart Alert: I date back to Usenet days) I tend to be more of a lurker than active participant.
I was gonna end with another snobby highbrow joke reference to Tolstoy–something about people throwing themselves under a train–but I couldn’t make it work without it sounding either like a death threat or a request for people to commit suicide; rest assured I have no desire to suggest either. But while looking up AK on Wikipedia for inspiration, I came across this paragraph:
“Anna Karenina is commonly thought to explore the themes of hypocrisy, jealousy, faith, fidelity, family, marriage, society, progress, carnal desire and passion, and the agrarian connection to land in contrast to the lifestyles of the city. Translator Rosemary Edmonds wrote that Tolstoy doesn’t explicitly moralise in the book, he allows his themes to emerge naturally from the ‘vast panorama of Russian life.’ She also says one of the novel’s key messages is that ‘no one may build their happiness on another’s pain.’”
I’d say that’s an appropriate moral for whichever side one chooses to support.
With gals like Anna, Madame Bovary and the Marquise de Merteuil leading the charge, the consequences of lying, manipulation and fake-it-til-ya-make-it were spelled out pretty clearly in novels written 150–200 years ago. I’m sure you could get ‘em for free at Project Gutenberg or Amazon’s Kindle store, but if you look around the internet you can probably find some public domain hustler willing to sell branded, poorly-designed PDF versions to you.
For only $47.
Apiece.
Hurry, though–supplies are limited! Order today and get a free ice crusher!
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]

BananaTaco Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Brilliant. And with such panache : )
  +1
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 2:18 pm

for sucks's fake said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Oh no, I take all back, how wrong I was about the commenters here !
@Barbara – You’re a troll. And not even a very good one
http://saltydroidhelp.wordpress.com/
LOSER!! ::   -11
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 2:34 pm

SD (author) said:
Well that was fun.
I’m sorry for just taking “snippets” and not giving people the full perspective on your true greatness Tim. If you want I can paste them in full … fine by me.
But I spared you one which I’m sure you noticed … because Naomi is fucking nuts and I’m trying to keep a lid on her … but if you want to talk about it we can?
ha!
I do feel bad about “trapping you” though :: so I’ll paste in my super sneaky responses to you :: then people will know the true nature of my unstoppable cunning.
Here they are :: in order :: in full …
First :: “thanks Tim … this is really funny shit. please keep it coming. this story writes itself.”
Second :: “Keep digging!”
Last :: “Did you purchase any of her “services”?”
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 3:48 pm

Alex said:
God, this is better than a soap opera. And there is always a new character to be added to the mix. Keep up the good work, SD. I love coming here once a week with a bag of popcorn and just reading over everything written. Best entertainment value on the internet.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +6
[Reply]

RT Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
@Alex,
I totally agree! Entertaining as hell …
Tim was schilling for the “A” team and is getting ripped apart now.
None of the A team are coming to his rescue except some dude named Bud of all things.
  +6
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@RT, ;) Thats not my real name.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 4:44 pm

Poopies said:
Can someone please explain what French for trade union means?
  0
[Reply]

Not Kern Reply:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
@Poopies, It’s the description Frank Kern gave for what he called his “Syndicate.” (aka Cartel)
http://saltydroid.info/frank-kerns-traitor-union/
http://saltydroid.info/the-internet-marketing-syndicate/
  +3
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 9:10 pm

Tim Brownson scam said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
You know what’s funny? By continuing to comment, Tim Brownson is just pushing this post further up the Google ladder.
You do realize, Tim Brownson, that the more times you post, the more those Google spiders will happily throw your name up there on page 1 for any and all searches including the name Tim Brownson?
Or maybe you didn’t think of that, Tim.
I have an idea of why.
Are you ready to hear what it is, Tim Brownson, rippoff scam artist life coach?
It’s because you, Tim Brownson suck at life. And at coaching. And at life coaching. And at life coaching life coaching.
But most of all, Tim Brownson, you are a douchebag.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]
# 14 September 2011 at 11:44 pm

BobbyC said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Some people in life deserve shit. And crucifying people in public can be fun. But you might want to stick to the people that genuinely deserve it. Believe it or not, Tim’s actually one of the good guys. Yes, he’s not perfect, yes he makes mistakes. But he also admits to his mistakes which as far as I’m concerned means he deserves huge kudos. Yes, Tim is shit at spelling sometimes, but why the fuck does that matter?! Are we at school?
Tim cares about doing the right thing and he just wants to help people. Jesus, next you’ll be slagging off Mother Teresa because she once accidentally stepped on a cat’s tail.
Can’t you guys be big boys and girls and kiss and make up? Go on, you might even enjoy it.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:57 am
@BobbyC ::
Believe it or not, Tim’s actually one of the good guys.
I don’t believe it :: thanks for giving me the option. Know why I don’t believe it? Because of evidence to the contrary. That’s how thinking works.
Mother Teresa devoted her life to the poorest of the poor :: and may the god of the old testament strike you down with leprosy for mentioning her name on a post about this useless parasite fuck.
[Reply]

T.J. Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:33 am
@BobbyC, I think you should have stopped after your first sentence.
  0
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:30 am
@BobbyC, Too late, Bobby- you should have tried that line before Tim came here and single-handedly destroyed ever last shred of his own credibility and seriously undermined the ability of the rest of us to take his profession seriously. I mean, I’ve USED a life coach before- twice! I DEFENDED life coaching on the last post. I won’t make that mistake again. I’ve been doing some hard thinking about my own life and my beliefs and I’ve decided that Wyrd is dead on in this comment:
“…he’s one of the masses doing fake things and thinking that it’s real because after he’s finished his client reports feeling better and thanking him.
I used to think that way too. Then one day I read The Demon Haunted Darkness by Carl Sagan. It took a while for the book to really sink in. Changing ones core beliefs is a bitch. Eventually, it came to me that, that kind of reasoning: “I felt better therefore it worked!” just isn’t good enough in determining if a particular substance or activity is actually having the effect you believe it’s having. That’s why medications have to pass double blind studies for both safety and effectiveness before they can go on the market. But you know that already of course. :-)”
I still love my life coach friends and I don’t think they’re doing anyone harm, (one of them is an MD) but before I pay anyone in the future I’m going to think long and hard about what SPECIFIC things they are offering and whether it’s possible to verify in any way beyond simply ‘feeling’ that I have received it. If it’s not then I know I’m in faith-based territory. And before I pay anyone for a faith-based cure I want to at least be sure we’re worshiping the same God. ;-/
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:56 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Wanderlost, interesting points. This thread was very long, so I admit I skim-read most of the comments. I’ll go back & re-read. Mind you, I’d expect that if *anyone* was getting character assassinated on a website, they might end up getting a little defensive. Human nature, isn’t it?
As for measuring the results you get from life coaching, that’s definitely an interesting one. I’ve never paid for a life coach (and there are known biases that show that if you’ve paid a lot for something then you’re more likely to rate it as beneficial/helpful, otherwise you’d have some serious cognitive dissonance). But I do feel I’ve learnt plenty from Tim’s free blog that I’ve found useful.
So I can only imagine that if you pay for one-on-one personal coaching and you have a good idea what you want to get out of it, you’re likely to find it useful too.
But if you do buy Tim’s coaching and then you don’t get the results you want, it doesn’t automatically make it the life coach’s fault.
It’s can be hard to quantify objectively the results you might get from life coaching. There’s wthe whole subjective and nebulous element of “happiness”, for one thing. I can subjectively rate my own happiness and I reckon Tim’s free advice has helped boost that over the last year. I may have also had fewer hours wasted per week where I felt like sh*t, and had fewer arguments with my wife, and I feel happier with the direction my life’s going in… but then I wasn’t measuring these things so I couldn’t say for definite.
Actually I HAVE been measuring my happiness (even though it’s obviously subjective) – there’s a cool app for the iPhone called Mappiness if anyone’s interested.
Personally, I think that if you want to make improvements in your life, one of the best ways to do that is read shitloads of books and test out different people’s advice to see what works for you. But not everyone has the time to do that, so they see it as a reasonable shortcut to hire a life coach instead.
I wonder if it’s simply the case that Tim somehow annoyed SD, so now SD’s launched an all-out nuke attack.
I also wonder if there’s any truth in the saying, “any publicity is good publicity”, in which case I may have to keep this thread going for as long as possible :D
Right, enough rambling. Time to read all the comments to see why several people on here think Tim’s a toolbag.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Dale Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:56 am
@BobbyC,
“I wonder if it’s simply the case that Tim somehow annoyed SD”
What an obviously disengenuous comment. “Somehow annyoyed.”
Did you even read the entire post in your rush to shill in the comments?
It’s all SPELLED out in great detail, and Tim’s OWN WORDS and actions make him look BAD. He doesn’t need any help.
Tell Tim “hi.”
  +6
[Reply]

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Dale, Yeah I’ve read it all now, cheers. It’s all very entertaining, isn’t it! Well, it would be, except that there are real people whose lives get affected by this stuff. Somehow Tim got caught in the crossfire.
Tim probably didn’t react in the best way. In fact, as several people have suggested, the best way would have probably been to not even come here. But I can understand his desire to want to defend himself too. He was never gonna win here, but I do admire him for trying.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
@BobbyC ::
Somehow Tim got caught in the crossfire?
Tim has been a part of this since I started watching it YEARS ago.
Maybe ass licking a dubious band of bandits for scraps is a bad “career” choice?
Maybe.

Pee Wee Reply:
October 9th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
@BobbyC,
I’m not going to cite reasons why I believe in what I’m about to say cuz I’m lazy, but I feel sorry for you because you are easily fooled and rationalize your naivety because accepting your foolhardy nature would = pain.
  +1
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 12:48 am

BobbyC said:
The thing with evidence is that if you’ve already made your mind up and you’re suffering from positive confirmation bias, you’ll only ever pay attention to evidence that backs up your case and ignore/disregard evidence that contradicts it. I think that’s you in that case.
But being fair and rational isn’t as much fun as nuking the shit out of someone is it? LOL!
Seeing as it seems I’m unlikely to be taken seriously on here, I’m going with the phrase, “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em”
When Tim first found me, I was an orphan on the street. I lived in an old rolled-up newspaper. Father made us eat cold gravel for breakfast. We worked at the mill for 40 hours per day, and we had to pay for the privilege. When father got home, he used to beat us round the head with a broken bottle, and that’s if we were lucky! (Monty Python – Four Yorkshiremen. Youtube it, it’s hilarious)
Then with just 5 minutes of life coaching from Tim, for the measly sum of $50,000 and the right for him to drink the blood of my first born twice weekly, I gained the ability to fly, shoot lasers from my eyes and wear my underwear on the outside. He did warn me though to stay away from Kryptonite, aka SaltyDroid, but it would mercilessly destroy me and suck away my powers. I wish I’d listened. Now I’m back on the streets, getting kicked by passers by.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -3
[Reply]

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:25 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@BobbyC,
You seem to have a fairly clear grasp of the situation here, but you might still like to read this:
http://saltydroidhelp.wordpress.com/
PS. Four Yorkshiremen – genius !
LOSER!! ::   -16
[Reply]

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:58 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@for suck’s fake, Ah, it all makes sense now! What a genius formula! Thanks for the tip.
I quite like this site, though it does make me feel a bit dirty. I might pop back every now and then, though I’ll be sure to be careful when commenting :D
LOSER!! ::   -9
[Reply]

Carol Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:12 am
@BobbyC, @for suck’s fake,
Watching you two snakes snuggle out in the open really magnifies the seedy underbelly you represent. Too bad you’ve chosen to waste your lives adoring scammers.
  +6
[Reply]

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Carol, Lol thanks I actually like this site. Though I may have to brush up on my insult-hurling skills. I’ll happily trade insults all day if you like, just keep them entertaining please. And for god’s sake, don’t pick on my gerbil felching fetish. That’ll really offend my ego. Snakes are cool. They can eat whole animals by detaching their jaw. Last time my jaw was detached it was for grabbing the ass of the wrong girl.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 2:49 am

Salt Of The Earth said:
Salty here is the man who is responsible for it all, why not pick on him?
http://www.gamechangerdna.com/thegame/?stop=1
  +1
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:41 am
@Salt Of The Earth, Probably he’s saving it for the Grand Finale.
  +2
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:34 am
@Salt Of The Earth: http://saltydroid.info/category/dan-kennedy/
  +5
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 5:11 am

Jaime said:
Below is a comment I posted on a blog moderated by people emotionally injured after running the course on saltydroid. It’s based on a few things I’ve been thinking about lately. Given the current {target} it and seemed appropriate to share…
The Salty Droid saves people a lot of money and, in some cases, their livelihood and well-being. He exposes scammers for who they are and reveals the motives driving the sales. The blog is hilarious because SD is a clever writer.
When I was new to business, I spent tens of thousands on IMer products and “business coaching” before realizing that everything I paid for is completely unnecessary. Salty helped show me exactly what was going on, and why.
- The Internet marketing industry says you need an experienced person to help you get started.
- The self-help industry says you have problems that can’t be fulfilled without their help.
Peeking behind the curtain you realize the “experienced marketers” aren’t experienced at all. And the self-help gurus have more problems than you do. People at the top of these food chains understand how this works and exploit it to the tune of billions of dollars. They become middle-men to information that’s normally free or low-priced, or frivolous.
I’m convinced 99% of the people “doing well” by selling info-products on the Internet started out with lies. They falsify their credentials, experience, and earning-power. They convince people about their product’s quality using falsified testimonials and fake social proof. These methods earn enough money to reach the next level – in some cases, building semi-legit products, but typically not.
I know several people who racked up huge debt buying IM products. Three examples:
- One went bankrupt and lost his house and wife (thanks StomperNet).
- Another became an employee of an IM “company” promoting info-products to IMers (you know, applying what he’d learned).
- Another found the only way to relieve the debt was to JV a completely nonsensical scam product. She even posted a photo on her blog after the commission checks rolled in; she’d cut her credit cards cut half. She now claims to earn above $80 grand a month selling information to Internet marketers.
Most people attempting to “do business” on the Internet don’t actually understand where money comes from, or how tangible value is created. They believe if they’re able to convince someone that what they sell is valuable and willing to give them money for it, value has been created. I disagree. And this is the primary issue I have with “life coaching”, “self help”, and “make money online” products. The moment you do real business with people face-to-face you’ll understand that nearly everything taught online does NOT apply.
Folks can complain about SD’s blog and how their comments are handled. But, I don’t feel sorry for you. You are naive to what’s really happening. Anyone defending the likes of Naomi Dunford have an issue with their moral compass; that’s not SD’s problem, it’s yours.
Then Tim Brownson, the guy who feels the need to post under thirteen different aliases to defend his career … who sells the idea that he … an inexperienced, unqualified, frustrated, ex-sales, non-business owner … can help anyone become “happy and rich” (but not actually rich, just fake rich).
Why are people defending the idea of needing a life coach? SERIOUSLY? The whole concept is a false need being exploited.
Yes, SD is vulgar. And yes, it’s not going to be pleasant for people new to the scene if they come in talking like they know something … when they’re actually pretty clueless.
All I can say is look VERY DEEPLY into the reasons you’re buying business products and information because it is packaged to sell. And for self help related “information” … I recommend throwing it all out as soon as possible. Instead, sit down and think for yourself. Maybe get a mentor and bounce ideas around if it’s something larger in scale (but this isn’t necessary to take action and get started).
The only material that’s worth keeping comes from qualified, experienced, ethical people doing real work in the fields of interest. The bonus is that MOST of this material is available for less than $100. Usually it’s a mere book costing less than $20.
I’m still digging myself out of the hole. A couple years ago I bought a small handful of honest business books and got to work doing something real, based on my own thinking and hard work. Something that doesn’t involve selling high-priced information (that is freely available elsewhere by more qualified professionals). I now have an office and six W-2 employees. I’m not a millionaire, but I could be some day. I know what it means to be a real business owner and pay off my debts with a clean conscience. I also know what it means to deliver tangible value to people.
WINNER!! ::   +38
[Reply]

BananaTaco Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:00 am
Jaime, I sincerely wish what you posted could be read by all of the people on Twitter and every other social medium; people who desperately need to wake up and realize that common sense, hard work, and critical thinking cannot be purchased or instilled by a magick wizard with a sexy wand packaged in cellophane and a big shiny looking website. I bought an info product once upon a time (the first time and the last time) for $99. It was, in all honesty, something I could have written and done the audio for myself. And better. The minute I started to listen to the audio and read the e-book I realized I had been duped. And this is a person who has internet ‘clout’ (I can’t even say that without laughing) and is connected with the ‘cool kids’.
It’s all hype.
It’s all smoke, mirrors, and a bad ham sandwich.
There is no “secret”. “They” don’t know more than you. The public library and a free session with a career counsellor or some therapy will amount to a whole hell of a shitheap more than any “infoproduct” currently being hawked on the webs or anywhere else.
Save your money, and keep your brain. And your dignity.
WINNER!! ::   +19
[Reply]

Ben Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:26 am
@Jaime, Great comment. But: “People” running a blog for the “emotionally injured” by this blog? Not a chance. It’s either a pro-scammer effort disguised as pseudo-altruism; or someone with an unspoken agenda that could benefit from medication.
I’m a VERY vocal complainer, super tech savvy, and I will go to great lengths to voice a complaint. But to try to assemble a protest blog because of the surface presentation on an otherwise pro-consumer blog, one that consistently provides damning evidence when nobody else is willing to? Ridiculous. That’s someone who’s part of the game. Guaranteed.
Nonetheless, if it wraps up their time in obsession and keeps them from victimizing others, that’s a good thing. This blog, however, is a snowball that is only getting bigger, and the possibility of having their questionable activities exposed has a lot of dubious people worried.
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:19 am
@BananaTaco and @Ben,
Thank you both for your very informative and reasonable replies as well. I’m getting it. Again.
  +5
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:11 am
@Jaime,
Jaime, thank you for your reply — I was honestly undecided about this one, because after the last fiasco which involved Tim, I took the liberty of getting in touch with him and found him to be a really great guy. I also found out some personal things about him that he chose not to post because, as he said, he was not wanting to look like he was looking for sympathy. I see now that he has mentioned his blood disorder, but he also has other very serious illnesses which he has not mentioned, and I hope I am not breaching a confidentiality that was told to me personally, but of
which I could relate to because my health is not good myself and hasn’t been for years. And again, I hope I am not breaching a confidentiality, but his wife is dealing with brain cancer, which he never mentioned either. They certainly have their hands full between them and life is certainly not easy for them, and another reason why they don’t own their own home and are living hand to mouth — expensive never ending medical bills, of which I can relate.
All in all, I can see what you are saying about everything being available for much cheaper or even free elsewhere, Jaime, and I have always felt that way myself, and had virtually no respect for life coaches who charge exorbitant fees for something they only know how to do through a brief course or a book with questions in it because I have had and still do know several people who are using life coaches to get through various problems or roadblocks in their lives and I always thought they were making a mistake and wasting their money, but it was not up to me to tell them that, it was their own life experiences to learn on their own — I have found that in the past, if you tell someone they are making a mistake trying or doing this or that, they don’t listen to you anyway, or worse, they think you are just jealous or else trying to block their progress in life or holding them back or whatever — so I’ve learned to just listen and keep my mouth shut. But when I talked with Tim, I found a very compassionate and caring man, and his wife seems to be very nice and decent as well. And no, I was not offered any “paid” help of any kind, in fact, I was offered much for free, most of which I declined. However, now that you have spelled out again what I thought before and had kind of put to the sidelines, the cost of this time of “help” really is exorbitant and can be gotten for so much less and even free.
And now that I’ve said that, I’m going to contradict myself and say that who am I to decide what someone else should do with their money, if they have it to spend, and think it’s doing them some good. I still believe that it’s far overpriced (and I’m not speaking of Tim per ce, but “all” life coaches), and I still believe that Tim is a great guy and means well, but I get what you’re saying and I have to agree for the most part. However, I don’t agree to what has been done to Tim here and what Bud and others who have supported him have gone through. That, to me, is just kicking someone when they’re down, and that is something I cannot agree with. I believe Tim has enough personal and health issues that he didn’t need this public flogging, but that’s just my humble opinion. And I still like the guy. But I do get what you’re saying, and I thank you for putting my mind finally to rest on this issue — I can disagree with the coaching and the way it’s done and prices charged and still like someone who believes they are doing a good thing and helping others — and I believe Tim believes that and is probably even doing it for many. Unfortunately, I think he just fell for something that a lot of other people were doing, thought he was good at it — and maybe he is — but yes, the fees are outrageous, as I have always believed when I see what some friends have paid and are paying, but again, who am I to tell someone how to spend their money. Unless Tim is asking people how much credit they have to spend and is asking old ladies to mortgage their homes, which unless I hear differently, that is not what he is doing. So I see both sides now — but I still say Tim is a great guy, as I got to know him anyway, and I don’t think this was necessary to beat him up as was done here. And I also still believe in Salty and all he is doing, so nothing has changed there. I was really hoping and waiting for Cosmic Connie’s opinion on this post and all the replies, because I respect her opinion, but so far, I have not seen it, apart from the little blurb she wrote linking to the Dan Kennedy post.
Thank you again, Jaime, for your most valuable perspective! I’m torn now, but at least I feel better about this post. Somehow. I think. :) ;)
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Thom Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:25 am
@Bonnie, I’m sorry to hear that Tim and his wife have health issues. I wish them well in dealing with those.
However, none of those health issues prevented him from dishing dirt here, being anonymous when it served him, getting nasty, and frequently blowing his own horn louder than an air raid siren.
He sounds busy. Maybe he has to “make time” on his calendar to schedule in time for his health concerns.
You have a great heart.
Don’t let someone squeeze it like a juicer.
Compassion is good. Exploitation is not.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:58 am
@Bonnie,
Millions of people have health issues. While upsetting and distressing, those problems aren’t related to the situations at hand. It’s bad logic to think otherwise.
I won’t say much more about Tim’s situation because it’s bizarre. None of what he’s doing makes any sense. He has medical bills … okay, then why is he only taking 3 clients at a time and giving away thousands of free books with a misleading title?
If he was good at sales, and really needs money, why not find a product he believes in and work to pay the bills? The pain isn’t big enough to move that direction?
I don’t hate the man; I simply don’t see congruency between the him, his career, and the actions taken on this blog.
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
@Jaime,
I wasn’t trying to say that his health issues and that of his wife had/have anything to do with what is being dealt with here — I was merely pointing out that I have respect for someone who was not using them to look for sympathy in order to win points here — and yes, as I said, he has since mentioned his blood disorder, but that is the least of it — and I believe he only mentioned that to qualify why he can’t work a 9 to 5, if I’m not mistaken.
I hear you, I really do — I just wanted to say that, from the other side, I think Tim is a really good guy — and a lot of the flogging he got on here was not really necessary, but was just done out of a need to hurt — and I think we all know that the supply of those people who are out to do just that on the internet is just as prevalant as the scammers. I’m an old fart here, Jaime, and I come from a different upbringing and mindset than most — and I don’t believe in hurting someone for no reason, or kicking them when they’re down.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@Bonnie,
Okay, I understand what you’re saying. He put himself into the wrong place, at the wrong time. And there probably are better examples of those taking advantage of the “life coach” title.
If I remember correctly, Salty did warn him about continuing to act … thoughtlessly? … on this blog. He was made an example of, as has happened here before.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@Jaime,
And again, I’m not faulting Salty for making this post — for the most part I love him and what he’s doing here — but I saw both sides of this one story and it had (and probably still has) me torn. But I get the point. I do. I just wish it hadn’t had to happen to such a nice guy, as I see it, especially publicly.
WINNER!! ::   +10

Thom Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
@Bonnie,
On the health issues: “I have respect for someone who was not using them to look for sympathy in order to win points here”
You should reconsider that.
He mentioned it to you knowing *full well* it would almost certainly get back to this blog.
And guess what? It did.
“I think Tim is a really good guy”
You really, really need to read the post from the beginning again. Take your time. Then, you need to go back and look at some of his other past comments, which showed him to be capable of being very NOT particularly nice.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +3
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
@Thom,
“He mentioned it to you knowing *full well* it would almost certainly get back to this blog.”
I really and truly don’t believe that, Thom. In fact, I’d bet my life on it. I won’t divulge our conversations, but it was not revealed for that reason at all. I’m almost certain of that.
WINNER!! ::   +8

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
@Bonnie ::
If you see someone tell a lie :: then EVERYTHING else they say is a lie until proven otherwise.
That’s a good rule for life :: but it’s an essential rule here amongst the professional liars.

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jaime, I totally get why it doesn’t seem congruent. Tim isn’t like most life coaches, which is why I like him. He genuinely seems to care more about helping people than he does about becoming rich himself. Maybe I’ve been sucked in by his ‘scam’, but it must be one of the most cast-iron scams I’ve ever come across because to me it seems totally convincing. Oh and it’s not a very effective scam because he’s only made a few dollars from me in over a year and that’s when I bought his book. Or maybe, just maybe, he really is genuine and he believes in what he’s doing.
I actually don’t like Tim’s book, How To Be Rich and Happy. I’ve told Tim as much as well. It’s not in his usual style, and it only contains a few nuggets of good advice amongst lots of mediocre stuff. The book was a collaboration with some other guy who obviously had the majority influence over its design, style and content. Several of Tim’s free ebooks on the other hand do seem fairly useful. I personally quite like his humour, but it’s personal taste and I appreciate it’s not for everyone.
I also agree that the title of Tim’s book is misleading. But I don’t believe that Tim was trying to con anyone. That’s why he described what he meant by ‘rich’ on the product page. My own belief is that the title was just a misguided attempt to have an eye-catching title. I do think it’s a tricky tightrope to walk between marketing effectively but also not being misleading.
I hope that my comments here are taken at face value. I love what this site stands for and I don’t really want a great big flame war. I’m an independent, free thinking kind of person. I’m trying to be totally open minded here to what everyone’s saying. There’s plenty of valid points here.
Anyone want to respond without resorting to insults or going ballistic? I think you’ll find me a reasonable man and at he moment I’d like to be friends with this worthwhile community.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
@BobbyC ::
You’re anonymous :: and a first time commenter :: so your unsubstantiated character reference taken at “face value” is worth nothing. No offense :: that’s just math.
It makes no difference what Tim “believes” he’s doing :: it only matters what he’s actually doing. What he’s actually doing is harming society :: by believing in :: and propagating harmful lies … and the the harmful liars who tell those lies.
[Reply]

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, No offence taken.
I’m curious (or maybe just naive)…
Which harmful lies? You mean NLP? I too have my doubts about much of it, but I think there are a few kernels of truth amongst the guff.
Which harmful liars? The bad guys mentioned in this post? I don’t really know enough about them yet to comment, though I’m steadily working through the posts on this site One of the books Tim recommended recently on his blog is Your Brain At Work by David Rock, which is a million miles away from most self-help books. It’s actually bloody useful for one thing! And it’s based on the latest neuroscience. Check it out. Ace reviews on Amazon and it’s pretty cheap too. Not sure that that counts as propagating a harmful liar, though I admit that just one exception won’t convince you.
LOSER!! ::   -5

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@BobbyC ::
You have no idea what this blog is about … but it is very much about something.
Maybe you should read 300 posts here in a quest to find examples of my fallibility rather than asking me questions in ignorance.

Bobbyc Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, Just 300? I was gonna stay up all night and read everything on here! You have me hooked! You sure you’re not gonna try selling me something? Maybe I’m being brainwashed with every comment I read!! If anyone sees me walking up to the counter of a book store with 500 copies of Salty’s book, “How To Win At Teh Internets”, please shoot me in the head.
Can we be friends, Salty? I like you. Really.
LOSER!! ::   -6

Nick Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@BobbyC, Tim will owe you a small fortune if he’s paying you by the paragraph.
I hope you don’t charge him for the previous comment you made about “gerbil felching” and “grabbing the ass of the wrong girl.” That seems more like a “free bonus.”
But yeah, I think we get that you believe Tim to be just a swell guy or something like that. O.k. then.
Hold all my calls, and send in the next “commenter.” If we’re ever going to finish these auditions for the best shill, we need to hurry things up.
  +5
[Reply]

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@Nick, Tim taught me the gerbil felching. It’s the life coaching course that he upsells you onto after you’ve been conned by his first $99,000 course ;)
I’ll stop defending Tim now, I think I’ve made my point so any more would just be repeating myself.
  +1

RT Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
@Bonnie,
We should at least acknowledge that it was a horribly terrible for him to start commenting here in the first place.
It would be like picking a fight with the biggest kid in school in the middle of lunch … you know you are just going to get your ass beat publicly.
Why do it?
You can avoid that guy and not have any problems.
  -2
[Reply]

Thom Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@RT,
Why are you providing Tim with excuses when he is already so fast and adroit at coming up with them on his own?
Customarily, the focus is on what someone did wrong, not how they could have avoided being caught.
I mean, if someone robs a bank, you don’t gloss over the fact that they robbed a bank and instead lament how they made a mistake by choosing the most well-guarded bank, and how they should avoid well-guarded banks in the future.
The thing about the all-powerful magic sympathy wand is that people over which it is used can become putty without their realizing it. What we need now is an antidote.
  +3
[Reply]

RT Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
@Thom,
… please don’t misinterpret my responses an excuses for Tim. That was not my intention.
Let’s just say that IF Tim really believes he is helping people and is a genuinely nice guy. Let’s just make that assumption for the sake of this example … pretend it’s a undergrad logic class.
… why the hell come here and make yourself a target. Clearly there are hundreds of so called “life coaches” “spirtual healers” “fake whatever the hell they do” people that think they are doing good but are such small potatoes that SD is not going to write a post about them like he did here … unless you voluntarily show up and and make yourself a target.
IF Tim really believes in what he is doing he should have just minded his own business and stayed away from here. He probably would have avoided becoming a category and having a featured post.
That is all I am saying.
I am just more or less trying to see how you could be such a dumb ass. I am intrigued the same way my wife can’t change the channel when Jersey Shore or Teen Mom on MTV is on.
I am blown away by the stupidity of it all.
No excuses for Tim from me. I don’t give a shit about Tim. I am just fascinated by his stupidity.
  0
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@RT ::
Look at Tim’s other comments on blogging about blogging blogs to find the answer to your question about why someone would do such an obviously stupid thing.
The A-team tells the B-C-D-teams that licking the ass of the A-team is the only way to succeed. Why do you think their boring :: lame :: say nothing articles get retweeted 500 times? The A-team gets most of what it needs {content :: trolls :: ass licking :: design :: tech :: promotion} for free by exploiting this hope pyramid … and then charges ridiculous prices to sell the results of what amounts to slave labor back to the slaves themselves.
Tim was trolling for the team … then in moment of insanity and self-delusion … thought he’d use his real name to lend credibility to his defense of “life coaching” specifically {which it would have without all the undisclosed baggage because that sort of defense requires a face people think they can relate to}. But that blew up straight away … and all the rest was the typical spastic self-preservation routine of trolls for the team {which I see all the time but you guys rarely see}.

Thom Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:24 am
@RT, I realize you were just trying to be supportive here, and sensitive to Bonnie’s conflicted feelings at the same time. I know you are on the right side.
Tim and the trolls haven’t ever really taken ownership of what took place as described by SD in his post, and Tim’s issue is really something altogether more substantial than just having a run-in with SD. My comment was only intended to circumvent any accidental troll feed, since they like to cling to everything but the real issue.
  +4

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@Bonnie ::
I think you should go back to the beginning of this blog and read the posts about Perry Belcher :: who “nice guy” Tim Brownson pretends to hate so much … even though he knows jack shit about him.
Perry Belcher was the “nicest” guy in The Syndicate. People really like hanging out with him :: and he sometimes does things for people around him that only a nice guy would do. His partner :: Ryan Deiss :: has people convinced that Christianity is the most important thing in his life … and that he’s an innocent lil’ lamb.
Without intending any insult I’ll tell you :: you are in no way qualified to make personality assessments inside of the world I’m discussing … a world populated with many genuinely pathological liars.
Grifters exploit people’s non-rational faculties. They are gifted at mirroring and deflecting. “He seemed nice” is not a counter point to someone’s observable actions.
That’s why the fake robot has a no humanity policy. It makes no difference whether or not Jason likes you {cause he likes some of these people too} … it’s about your on-the-record actions … everything else is smoke.
Tim’s actions :: like Ryan’s and Perry’s :: leave no room for doubt about what he is … a fucking bastard.
Lastly :: Tim is too low level for me to be messing about with. Tim is B-team like Dave Navarro {maybe C-team even} … and the sick machine will eventually eat his corpse. But he came here and trolled :: something all the badguys would like to do … to totally destroy the important conversations that go on here. But I haven’t :: and won’t :: let that happen.
I’ve found some of Naomi’s other trolls too :: and eventually I’ll probably find all of them … cause I’ll still be here long after this particular story line burns out … and people love to talk. So there will be other posts like this.
Come here with undisclosed interests and be anything less that 100% genuine :: and you will become part of the wallpaper … plus as an added bonus … I’ll CRUSH your c-team attempts at making money online in a swoop. That stands as an open offer to all comers.
[Reply]

BobbyC Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
@SD, I totally get where you’re coming from. I do think Tim could have handled this better. (I know some of you will think that’s a massive understatement!). But I also know that in the past on Tim’s blog he’s admitted that the one button that people can push to get him really riled is to question his integrity. Assuming that’s true, I can understand why he’s reacted in a bit of a hot-headed manner on here. Again, assuming he’s genuine, if you read his blog over the past few years you’ll see that he often goes to excruciating lengths to try to do the right thing. I’m not saying he’s perfect, but his intentions seem sound.
An easy response to this would be, “yeah, but scammers are adept at fooling people”. But if Tim’s so adept at scamming, why isn’t he rich? And why aren’t there hordes of ex-customers on here queuing up to stick the boot in? All I see are people judging him on his behaviour on this blog in the fairly recent history.
I dunno if I’m just wasting my breath, I don’t know how I could prove my own good intentions. I just hope that what I say registers as making some kind of sense.
Is the droid fallible, occasionally?
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -3
[Reply]

Unicorn Army Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
@BobbyC, they’re *all* “nice guys.” If they weren’t, they’d have to go get jobs. A con man can’t con you if he can’t win your Confidence. That’s what “con” means. Perry Belcher’s whole game is being “that guy you’d want to have a beer with.” As is Frank Kern’s, etc.
As SD has pointed out with logic and stuffs, Tim has made it hard to believe that he’s any different than they are, other than possibly being less “successful” at it.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Bobbyc Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Unicorn Army, So the only option is to trust no-one that is trying to sell you something? Actually, that’s not bad advice! Bill Hicks was right! But it could also mean you miss out on some genuinely useful stuff because you dismiss it all by default.
LOSER!! ::   -7

Unicorn Army Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@Bobbyc, no, the answer is not to buy something just because they’re “a nice guy.” And for extra credit, read Cialdini’s “Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.”
WINNER!! ::   +13

Bobbyc Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Unicorn Army, I actually finished that book a few weeks ago, by coincidence. It’s a classic.
Can I have my biscuit (sorry, cookie) now?
LOSER!! ::   -7

Jack Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@BobbyC, I don’t understand about this one:
“I also know that in the past on Tim’s blog he’s admitted that the one button that people can push to get him really riled is to question his integrity.”
If I went up to Michael Jordan to tell to him he was a horrible basketball player maybe he could be mildy annoyed, but he probably knows it’s not true so he’s not too bothered I don’t think.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Bobbyc Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jack, At a guess, I’d say it’s because Tim knows he operates in a market full of fraudsters, and he’s consciously trying to be different, but keeps getting tarred with the same brush. He quit sales because of the scummy sales tactics that he was asked to employ. Of course, he could just be lying about it all, but I don’t believe that.
LOSER!! ::   -7

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
@BobbyC ::
Once again :: why should we care what some anonymous person does or does not believe?
Tim’s actions make him obvious shit :: Tim’s lies make every word from Tim’s mouth lies.
You are welcome to your la la land :: but don’t expect us to join you there.

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@Jack ::
And I think I remember when I said “you can’t make money online” to Aaron Wall :: instead of having a hissy fit :: he laughed straight in my face.
And when people say that I’m mean :: or that I hate women :: or that I like to watch people suffer … I don’t remember getting too bothered.

BobbyByeBye Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, Good-o! I think I’ve had enough of “everyone is a bastard if i say they are and I’ll nuke you if you disagree” land. I’m heading back to nice-ville, stopping off at happy-park and hopefully going via wow-I’m-glad-I’m-not-that-bitter-and-twisted-town.
Good luck with your crusade, it’s a worthy cause you’re fighting under all that occasionally misdirected venom.
I’ll finish as I started, with some Monty Python. “He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy”
LOSER!! ::   -10

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
@BobbyByeBye ::
Thanks for stopping by to be useless and uninformed … it was a rare treat.

Wyrd Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
@BobbyC,
“Integrity”. It’s a good, important word.
But in our daily lives, we all go around believing that we are the heroes of our own personal story. All our actions–we’ve got ways of rationalizing or justifying everything we do. In that way, we can always say, “I have integrity”.
What @SD is trying to say is: never mind what the person believes look at what their actual actions are.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Yvette Scott Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
I so wish I could vote your comments down. But since I can’t.
“Without intending any insult I’ll tell you :: you are in no way qualified to make personality assessments inside of the world I’m discussing … a world populated with many genuinely pathological liars”
Takes one to know one. Is that appropriately junvenile from the shallow end?
“That’s why the fake robot has a no humanity policy. It makes no difference whether or not Jason likes you {cause he likes some of these people too} … it’s about your on-the-record actions … everything else is smoke.”
Nah, the robot is all smoke and mirrors and the man behind it also.
“Lastly :: Tim is too low level for me to be messing about with. Tim is B-team like Dave Navarro {maybe C-team even} … and the sick machine will eventually eat his corpse. But he came here and trolled :: something all the badguys would like to do … to totally destroy the important conversations that go on here. But I haven’t :: and won’t :: let that happen”
SNORT!
LOSER!! ::   -22
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
@Yvette Scott ::
I’m a pathological liar?
That’s not a juvenile insult … it’s a nonsensical one.
Yvette … I’m sorry I have to tell you this … but you’re never going to make money online.
[Reply]

Yvette Scott Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
What about you Jason Jones? Are you going to make money online?
LOSER!! ::   -8

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
@Yvette Scott ::
Three years ago I would have told you most definitely not. Now I’d say … probably not.
Depressing isn’t it?

Wanderlost Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:40 am
@Yvette Scott, *Slaps Forehead* I just don’t seem to be able to GET it- you were another one who I was feeling kind of sorry for, thinking you (like me not so long ago) probably got kind of sucked into this MMO pipedream and just weren’t quite ready yet to let go of it and admit to yourself that you were being played by expert manipulators. I sympathized and wished Salty would ease up on you. RN, you said and I, like an idiot, thought ‘helping profession- probably the bumbling do-gooder type – like the teacher who wakes from her daydream just in time to see the victim finally gather his courage enough to give the class bully who’s been tormenting him for months a bloody nose- and rushes out in righteous indignation to scold the dickens out of him for it.’
But just like Tim, you couldn’t stop, could you? You just kept digging the hole deeper and deeper. Well, you’ve sure opened my eyes. To read any part of this site- especially the part about the James Arthur Ray’s murders- and conclude that Salty’s purpose here is to make money on line? Just incredible. Tells me all I need to know about your moral compass and YOUR purpose here.
Thanks, Salty, for everything you do. Someday I’ll learn not to second guess your responses.
  +6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
@Wanderlost ::
Nah … keep second guessing me … it’s good practice.

Yvette Scott Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:09 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Wanderlost,
Nah. I asked an honest question and I got an honest answer from Jason Jones. That was it. (made me almost like the guy)
LOSER!! ::   -9

Anonymous Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:06 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, Thank you…This post addressed everything I was curious about
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jaime,
Thanks for your comment – I’ve approved it over on the site.
Here’s my reply:
+++
This site isn’t “moderated by people emotionally injured after running the course on saltydroid” – it’s moderated by me.
Why do I do it ?
Because I hate bullying and hypocrisy.
That doesn’t mean you personally, Jaime – actually you’re one of the more positive, rational members of the cabal, but it certainly does mean Jason and plenty (most ?) of the people commenting on saltydroid.info
LOSER!! ::   -15
[Reply]

Carol Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
@for suck’s fake,
As was mentioned to you when you used your previous identity here: if you hate hypocrisy, you hate yourself.
Your numerous previous comments were all pro-scammer. And you wonder why victims aren’t warming up to your bent agenda?
Troll.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Carol,
I’m confused. Who do you think I am ?
LOSER!! ::   -18
[Reply]

Doctor Mario Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@for suck’s fake ::
Why do I do it ?
Because I hate bullying and hypocrisy.
B-U-L-L F-U-C-K-I-N-G S-H-I-T!!!
You hate the Salty Droid because he hurts your bottom line. Period.
If you were not directly affiliated with those profiled here (Third Tribe, I’m guessing by your timing) … then you would be commenting transparently & openly under your real name.
Don’t act like you have nothing to hide … or that you aren’t exhibiting the biggest hypocrisy of all.
You are much more than “a little obsessive” … daily trolling here & at your own little spinoff complaint site … putting in more time & energy than any of the local regulars.
@for suck’s fake :: (from our conversation at your site) ::
Here’s the hinge upon which your entire flawed logic turns, Oh Anonymous Admin:
“Freedom of speech requires a confidence that we can comment safely.”
Safely as in your personal well-being :: YES!
Safely as in your feelings never get hurt :: NO!
That’s the whole point. If speech is free, then your feelings aren’t protected. There is a whole sequence of Supreme Court decisions that outline the limits of legally protected speech in great detail (which I was alerted to thanks to @SD :: go figure).
If we have something going for us in America, it is the great protection afforded to anyone … the little people included … to speak his/her mind.
And then, @for suck’s fake :: you responded as any true {fascist concern troll would ::
I agree with that, but you missed one.
Safety as in you won’t get someone else’s shit thrown at your legitimate business.
Calling what @SD is {targeting} here “legitimate business” is laughable … but that is a sidebar.
FREE SPEECH MEANS PRECISELY THAT YOU WILL GET SOMEONE ELSE’S SHIT THROWN AT YOUR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS! Or your “legitimate” political party. Or your “legitimate” religion {or cult}.
Deal with it, or go to work for someone else.
That is an accepted risk of becoming a public figure in a free society.
Alternately, your own moral imperative seems to favor a fascist oligarchy … controlled entirely by the business people, from the top down … with no voice or protection for the “little guys”.
A lonely but loud consumer advocate like @SD is only possible thanks to the fact that our speech here in America is {mostly} protected! Free Speech FTW!
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Jim Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
@Doctor Mario, Very very, well said. “@for suck’s fake” has something to hide and isn’t who they pretend to be. Now that’s the real hypocrisy. Just another paranoid scammer.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +3
[Reply]

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jim,
That’s right – no-one ever ever does anything because they believe in it, or have concern for other people, or for any other reason except having some kind of vested interest, do they ?
All people who disagree with you are bad, stupid or brainwashed by definition, aren’t they ?
Listen to yourselves.
LOSER!! ::   -17
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
@for suck’s fake ::
You remind me of this …
http://saltydroid.info/not-doctor-kilstein-terrible-person/
And this …
http://saltydroid.info/critic-watching-with-fat-obryan/
“I’m a creative entrepreneur who has critics who are also public writers. Most of these critics are totally ignorant of my field, and don’t have the wit to analyze what’s well-done and what’s not …
I know that criticicism comes with success, but… wouldn’t it be fun to critique the critics?
So, welcome to my new hobby. Envision me with my feet up on my desk, a glass of Malbec and a good cigar, Pat Metheny on the studio monitors, and blog critiques flying from my fingers into the internet.”
But it turns out that pretending like you’re helping people when you’re really out to hurt them is quite exhausting.
BTW :: in case I’ve never mentioned it to you :: you’ll never make money online.

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
I don’t get it. Is that a veiled threat that you’ll figure out who I am and reveal my involvement in all kinds of sordid stuff, just like you did for Tim ? Oh wait, you didn’t. But is that the idea ?
Don’t bother. However annoying I might be right now, I’m nobody – really – and sooner or later I’ll get bored and go away.
LOSER!! ::   -17

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
@for suck’s fake ::
It’s not a “veiled threat” … it’s just a threat threat. If you’ve spent time trolling here in support of the unsupportable without disclosing your financial connections :: and I find out about it :: then I will record that behavior and attach it to your real name … forever.
You WILL get bored and fade away … I won’t.

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
OK, glad we cleared that up. Of course I don’t feel I’m trolling, just consistently replying to comments I disagree with like everyone else, but people here seem to use the word differently than elsewhere.
The problem of course is with what you term “support of the unsupportable”. For example, I’m a subscriber to the Third Tribe, as it says on the site – is that supporting the unsupportable ?
I have a website, and use it to promote products and services – is that supporting the unsupportable ? I have made a little money online but not in the “Make Money Online” or “Internet Marketing” spheres – is that supporting the unsupportable ?
Tim Brownson has commented on the site I put up – how about that ?
And so on.
Trust me, I’m not even D-team – not worth your effort.
LOSER!! ::   -9

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@for suck’s fake ::
Of course you’re not worth my effort :: and I’ve yet to click through on your little site.
But when I find out your name {because many of the people you think are your friends are not your friends} :: then I’ll record it here and everyone can decide for themselves about your motivations for supporting the unsupportable.
I’m sure you have nothing to be ashamed of … right? You’re just against satire … not truth.

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
That’s cool, I wouldn’t expect you to waste time on my site when you’re hounding down hardened criminals like Tim.
Some of your regulars have made some excellent comments there though, and received excellent replies in return.
And no, I have nothing to be ashamed of. Well, the usual stuff about sex and eating too much chocolate, but nothing juicy enough for you. Although if Tim deserves a post for making snarky comments here, maybe I should watch my back after all.
Who do you think my friends are, by the way ?
The thing is – your radar is off and you’re {targeting} people who really aren’t scammers and scumbags, so you’re getting dissent from people who are also not scammers and scumbags.
Which is tricky, because the usual threats don’t carry any weight.
And I’m not against satire, just bullying and hypocrisy.
And “satire” that isn’t witty or clever.
LOSER!! ::   -8

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
@for suck’s fake ::
I notice that’s about your 10th different IP address :: are you 10 different people with just one sad voice?

for suck's fake Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:36 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
It’s just me. As far as I know, anyway.
LOSER!! ::   -8

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Doctor Mario,
“FREE SPEECH MEANS PRECISELY THAT YOU WILL GET SOMEONE ELSE’S SHIT THROWN AT YOUR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS! Or your “legitimate” political party. Or your “legitimate” religion {or cult}”
If you think that what’s expressed in the comments here embodies the principles of free speech, I genuinely feel sorry for you.
This sad little site is indirectly censored – by bullying, intimidation and “pack” behaviour.
Anyone from outside with a clear head can see it – or comes to see it eventually – and that’s why I put up a little blog pointing it out, to try and stop people wasting their time here.
Everything else is in your head.
LOSER!! ::   -20
[Reply]

Grover Lembeck Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@for suck’s fake,
What, exactly, isn’t “indirectly censored” in life?
For instance, if I go into a bar in D.C. and start talking about how badly the Redskins suck, the other patrons will have a problem with it. I would be vigorously “indirectly censored”, and I would deserve it. Sure, I’d be right, but that doesn’t change the dynamics of the situation.
If you really like scammers so much, go to the Warrior forum or MLM.com or any myriad other sites. You can piss and moan about the Droid, tell other people to avoid the fake robot’s website, they’d listen, you’d comisserate….it would be like a slumber party!
If it’s rudeness online that you’re worried about, and you’re trying to put a stop to (you know, “end all indirect censoring!”) might I suggest you start with 4chan, or perhaps Something Awful?
But of course, that wouldn’t make sense; there’s no scammers being dragged out from under their rocks into the light of day at those sites.
I mean, who wouldn’t start their crusade against bad behavior online with one of the most successful consumer advocacy sites? Only by locking horns with someone who is determined to fight on the side of the victims, can you REALLY show you mean business.
Go listen to that recording of Debbie being robbed- that guy, the guy scamming Debbie? That guy considers you a valuable ally.
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Grover Lembeck,
I’m not starting a “crusade against online behaviour”, I’m just pointing out that this place sucks. Especially for non-residents, no matter how genuine and honest they may be.
This is a thread about Tim. Is he the guy on that tape ? Does he have anything to do with him ?
If I’m That Guy’s ally, I guess I’m also best mates with the bastard who runs the sweat shops our clothes and computers are made in, right ?
I hear what you’re saying – implicitly we all support hideous people, but I don’t buy it.
And if I want to point something like that out, I don’t do it by being abusive, aggressive and mean-spirited.
LOSER!! ::   -16

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Grover Lembeck,
And since we’re doing analogies:
Let’s say there’s a convicted drug dealer in my neighbourhood. He used to hang out with a gang of kids, and some of my neighbours suspect one of them of also dealing. There’s no proof, but this kid just bought himself some new sneakers and a fancy gold watch, and is always out late at night. And he’s really rude and surly – people don’t like him.
A group of them decide to follow this kid and “persuade” him not to deal drugs, even there’s no proof that he does.
If I speak out and try to convince them that they shouldn’t do this, I can expect to have my views “indirectly censored” then, too. I might even get accused of supporting drug dealers.
Notice any parallels ?
LOSER!! ::   -15

whatthewhat Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
@for suck’s fake, Ugh! If anyone is going to comment on this blog about what “free speech” means I humbly request that you read either the Supreme Court cases regarding free speech or a good treatise/summary of those cases. Because your comment only establishes that you do not know what is contained in the “right to free speech” (I don’t have to read the treatise cuz I got this nifty thing called a law license so I had to study that shit).
Free speech ABSOLUTELY includes what is in the comments here. There is no law that says I have to say nice things to and about all people all the time. There is no law that requires me to be polite or reasonable in my criticism of a person’s statements or opinions. What is happening here is called DEBATE. You state your opinion. I (and others here) counter that opinion. Some are not that well reasoned and are more emotional (“You dummy head!” “You’re a big dumb dumb!” – ironically the greater % of supporters of the scammers make these” Some are extremely well reasoned and articulate (see: @_Cartman_; @Slowlywaking; @Barbara; @CosmicConnie; the shrubbist (couldn’t find your handle, sorry), as well as others).
If the things people say in the comments here hurt your feelings, you seem to be identifying very strongly with whatever idea you are conveying. Since the only ideas I see you talking about here are: (1) you guys are mean when I comment here; (2) you guys are mean to the people Salty posts about.
There is a right to free speech. There is no right to “not ever have my feelings hurt”. And there is no right to “commit fraud and sell fake products/services to steal money from people.”
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

for suck's fake Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@whatthewhat,
You’re right, I have no idea about the legal definition. I’m talking about the spirit, not the letter.
Freedom of speech is meant to prevent oppression, basically – to protect the right to express an opinion etc.
So sure, it also gives people the right to be mean, hurtful, aggressive, wrong, stupid and viscous.
But that’s not what it was intended to protect.
“You dummy head!” “You’re a big dumb dumb!”
You’re kidding, right ?
Residents here routinely acuse critical newcomers of being liars, scammers, shills, trolls, psychos, brainwashed, delusional…
I’m identifying with people at the receiving end of that, because those are the people who think they’re entering a debate and actually it’s a shit-slinging contest.
A debate has two sides, each of which is given equal time and space to speak, and fair hearing is given to both sides. In a debate, unpopular speakers are not hidden from view. In a debate, abuse is not tolerated.
My ideas are:
(1) you guys are mean when almost ANYONE who expresses dissent posts here
(2) some of those people deserve it, but most don’t
There ARE some interesting conversations going on here and there – but that’s by luck, not design.
LOSER!! ::   -12

Jack Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
@for suck’s fake, I went onto go over to the site and the first thing that came on up over to me was about when you said this:
“Grammatical errors and typos will always be mercilessly ridiculed – after all, poor spelling and grammar is proof you’re a liar.”
because it didn’t happen to me really much here very much really a all, so I don’t understand about it from your site then.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Luther Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:31 pm
@Jack, I nebber had a problem about typhus either, Jack. I think what “@for suck’s fake” prolly means is someone tries to make a bad person look like a good person, people notice your spelling more.
Maybe like how a convenience store robber gets noticed for having bad hair and normal customers just get their coffee and a smile.
So “@for suck’s fake” might be better off not cheering for the bad team, but I also understand if “@for suck’s fake” is also on the bad team, that would be hard, probably.
WINNER!! ::   +10

Wanderlost Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
@Jack, I was reading some older posts on James Arthur Ray and found this comment:
“the voice of reason said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Hey Salty super lib, is it possible for you to write at least one post that is clear and doesn’t look like it was written by a chimp banging away at a keyboard? For fuck sakes, I’ve never seen a more incoherant, undicipherable writing “style” in all my life. By the way, moron, “:::” isn’t proper ANYTHING.
LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -36″
Of course we all know how thin skinned the Droid is – he went absolutely ape-shit over this and couldn’t stop ranting… oh… no… sorry. I was thinking of that other guy who has the site with a droid in the title – what was his name? Sucky Fake or something?
  +3

Slowly Waking Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
@Jaime, your comment is a friggin’ MASTERPIECE, a beautiful shot of wisdom to anyone in the scammers’ orbit.
And that is all I have to say…
…except it BOGGLED MY MIND to see this new post and then see like 700 comments from Tim B. Once again, I am most impressed. Whew!
  +4
[Reply]

Poop Chute Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 10:27 am
@Jaime, This is the BEST comment I’ve seen posted on SD. Ever. Period.
When I think of a “life coach,” I think of…PARENTS. The obvious problem with “self-help” that requires someone else to help you is…too funny.
Today I get most of the best business advice and guidance and ideas I need reading Fast Company or a good book…by someone who has been there, done it, and probably hired a ghost writer to write the book…but it’s a book that doesn’t cost more than $30 or so and at that point even ONE good idea or tip or just attitude enlightenment adjustment can pretty much make it worthwhile.
Usually there is more than one.
I see this same statement from high-ticket gurus justifying the cost of their multi-thousand dollar courses and coaching: “Just ONE good idea from all of this could be worth a million dollars or more to you if you just apply it.” They’re right…if there is even one “good idea” in what they provide to you (not always the case, by the way).
But they neglect to tell you that you can get even better ideas and many more of them, from REAL business owners who are actually doing it rather than teaching it — from any single issue of Fast Company. For about $6!
No — I don’t work for Fast Company! I just noticed I can’t read a single issue without getting GREAT ideas for systems to put into place, models to follow, or markets to look into. MULTIPLE ideas I can apply. Written by journalists who make a living interviewing movers and shakers and getting solid information from them they’re willing to impart.
NICE JOB!
@SD — by the way — I signed up for Brandon Brouchard’s latest thingy — the whole “information whatever integrity pledge” or something. He said he would send a free book if you fill out the form and…lo and behold! I got the book the other day. It’s from Simon and Schuster and it was shipped to me from Amazon with a note on the paid invoice from Brandon thanking me for signing the pledge and letting me know the book is his gift for me doing so.
I was pretty impressed. Not with the book. Not with the pledge. Oh no. I was impressed by how much money this guy is willing to spend to make that book a number one Amazon best-seller.
That’s clearly what the whole pledge crap thing was all about. Getting people to sign up so he could legitimately send them free books, buying them himself (yes, you have to buy your own fucking book from Amazon if you want to send it out to someone and move up their chart).
He’s literally gaming the system to buy is way into best-seller status.
Something’s just not right about that, ya know? Like…maybe…against his own silly pledge crap?
Wow.
  +5
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 8:36 am

Confused said:
SD – why have you mentioned the Copyblogger guest post on “Not Making Excuses?”.
Unless I’m going blind, Robert Bruce wrote that post, not Tim Brownson ( I checked the cache as well ).
  -2
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
@Confused,
Scroll down and read the comments on that post ;-)
  +4
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 9:24 am

Barbara said:
Brownson is saying on his site about SD:
“Firstly, I am not looking for support and don’t want anybody posting there on my behalf. Seriously, don’t.”
“One of the other comments I had aimed at me was to do with NLP. The person went on to say that NLP has been proven to be mumbo jumbo.”
And then he explains what he sees as a justification for NLP.
I made the comment about NLP having been proven to have no efficacy at all. Now, I know people have made the argument here many times that people are free to spend their money however they choose and that’s true.
However it has been extraordinarily well documented that NLP has no rational scientific basis. There are evangelical testimonies from some adherents but no studies proving it works. None. But there exist many studies proving it is pseudoscience at best, outright quackery at worst. NLP programs are sold which promise penis and breast enlargement, hair regrowth for the bald (or balding, the term some prefer). In Germany it’s use has been banned in schools along with scientology, its close cousin. EST, now Landmark, is another relative. This site is one of many NLP sales sites:
http://www.remotehypnosis.com/timeline.asp
It promises you one to thee inches for $31.97. (there’s that 7 again)
“Timeline System of Penis Enlargement™ is James Goodman’s complete system of penis enlargement hypnosis that initiates an unconscious search for all the factors that made your penis grow in order to make you become “super well endowed”.
“Using the proven NLP™ Timeline Therapy system devised by Dr. Richard Bandler, and powerful hypnotic 3D stereo effects specially created for this program you will create a vivid picture of the future you with the size of penis you desire and “step into” that experience.”
And this: “Here is a summary of what you will learn in my book ‘NLP Seduction – The Hidden Art of Getting the Woman You Desire and Become the Alpha Male’” which includes the “script for getting girls to do anything you want”. I don’t know the price of that gem.
And James Ray of sweat tent death fame is also a practioner of this dubious technique. What bothers me the most about NLP is all of the medical language it bandies about, it speaks of “growing new cortical pathways”, “the role of neurotransmitters”, at one point Bandler speaks of “jamming people into MRI’s taping them down” to show the brain changes. But your brain changes all of the time in response to stimulus, that’s what the concept of neuroplasticity is, it proves nothing to “jam” someone into an MRI machine, produce a scan and scream “Eureka!” Our brains are constantly processing signals but showing that process doesn’t “prove” anything.
If even one of these NLP salesman had completed the hard slog that is medical school it would be easier to take what they say somewhat seriously. The “doctors” among them are doctors of thinkology, like Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.
I don’t see why if someone has a genuine desire to help people they cannot make the effort to become credentialed in an actual helping profession.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

BananaTaco Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:31 am
Barbara, you win the good ham sandwich for this comment. You made me laugh so hard I just about ate my own tongue. Thank you!
  +3
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:08 am
@BananaTaco,
NLP is one of those scams that really sets off my bullshit detector. I highly doubt if any idiot who practices it could pass even the easiest introductory course in anatomy, chemistry, biology or any hard science. But they’ll flap their jaws about neurotransmitters when all they know on the subject they learned from an antidepressant commercial. They think mental illness is caused by rain clouds, frowny faces, barren trees and that badly drawn egg with the squiggle lines from the prozac ad. No wonder they think it can be cured by eye rolling, foot tapping and repeating affirmations. And Coach Brownson is as big a fake as they come.
  +2
[Reply]

BananaTaco Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
When you look at what NLP, EFT (emotional freedom technique), and other means of finding the ‘stillness’ within there is one overwhelmingly obvious thing they have in common:
distraction
That’s why people who have anxiety and depressive disorders, and a host of other emotional/psychological pests (I am not going to address serious mental illnesses like bipolar/dysthymia, schizophrenia, and the whole DSM IV here)find them effective. They distract them from the core issues and seem to help.
Maybe, in some cases, they even do help. Some people watch Jersey Shore, drink and smoke a lot to manage their issues…Other people, including those susceptible to the pathological liars and con artists that this world seems to be teeming with, go to yoga, drink green tea,read self-help books and join a group.
Everybody wants “the answer” to what will alleviate both the mundane sufferings of pedestrian life, and the larger traumas and tragedies that strike unexpectedly…(yes, I am aware I am preaching to the choir here and that some of the smart folk here already know what I am talking about and I am rambling a bit)…
Some people want to believe in something, so badly, in fact, that they will pay someone they for it. Often, people who fall for these scams are so desperate to escape their own self-perceived hell that they JUMP at the opportunity to pay for it. Especially if the package looks glossy and colorful.
These days, I don’t trust any of what I see on the internet unless it is backed with solid home fried evidence. Something I can see, touch, hear, and get for free (which basically rules out almost everything). If I’m paying for it, it better have a two ton tanker of credibility and integrity behind it.
Call me organic.
  +6
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
There are plenty more where that one came from. You might wet yourself laughing, though.
  +2
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
My last sentence still stands.
  0
# 15 September 2011 at 4:11 pm

Barbara said:
Bobbyc stated:
“One of the books Tim recommended recently on his blog is Your Brain At Work by David Rock, which is a million miles away from most self-help books. It’s actually bloody useful for one thing! And it’s based on the latest neuroscience. Check it out. Ace reviews on Amazon and it’s pretty cheap too.”
Are you aware of how useless relying on “ace” amazon reviews can be?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/20/technology/finding-fake-reviews-online.html
“Sandra Parker, a freelance writer who was hired by a review factory this spring to pump out Amazon reviews for $10 each, said her instructions were simple. “We were not asked to provide a five-star review, but would be asked to turn down an assignment if we could not give one,” said Ms. Parker, whose brief notices for a dozen books are stuffed with superlatives…”
And you claim it’s based on the latest neuroscience? What credentials does Rock have that should make anyone believe he’s a scientist? Or even qualified to write cogently on the subject of science?
Because he started this?:
“Witness the Birth of a new Discipline: NeuroLeadership!”
More like witness the birth of a new pseudoscience.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Bobbyc Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Barbara, Some reviews may be fake, but surely a minority! So I guess the only way you’ll find out if the book is useful is to actually read it yourself. Or find someone you know & trust to ask what they thought of it. Blimey, you’re such a skeptic!
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
@Bobbyc,
Blimey, you’re such a skeptic!
And why is it in these modern times that, that is so often taken as a negative!?
Being skeptical (not cynical) means your critical thinking thingie is fully ENGAGED. That’s a Good Thing(tm).
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:13 am
@Bobbyc,
And you, Bobbyc, are a salesman’s dream customer. Nice guy I’m sure, but just a bit gullible.
  +3
[Reply]

Gerald Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@, I’d revise that to: Not a nice guy I’m sure, not a bit gullible, not a salesman’s dream customer, but more than likely an ACTUAL SALESMAN.
  +2
[Reply]

Bobbyc Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Barbara, http://www.davidrock.net/about/
Enough credentials for you?
LOSER!! ::   -10
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
@Bobbyc,
Nope. If Middlesex lists Adam Ant of Dirk Wears White Sox fame it seems highly doubtful they wouldn’t boast of Rock being one of their own, that is if he were someone to boast about. He appears nowhere on their notable alumi list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Middlesex_University_people
You bet I’m a skeptic when it comes to NLP and its offshoots. Although it looks like no one has reviewed this product yet:
http://www.amazon.com/Regeneration-Subliminal-Neurolinguistic-Programming-imbedded/dp/B000PM93FQ
Do you feel like making an easy ten bucks?
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
@Bobbyc,
I found this credential odd:
“He received his professional doctorate in the Neuroscience of Leadership from Middlesex University in 2010″
Google turned up his doctorate paper here [PDF]. It’s all about … coaching.
I get the impression that Mr Rock is the only person on the planet with a degree in “the Neuroscience of Leadership”.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jaime,
Yes, he probably is. That’s kind of the idea of a doctorate, that you make a unique contribution to your discipline.
Or do you think that a doctorate in fluid dynamics would make him more qualified?
@Barbara,
You’ve just cited “Wikipedia” as a source. That tells me all I need to know about _your_ credentials.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:48 pm
@,Anonymous,
But that’s the whole point. I’ve not claimed credentials in marketing, teaching writing, life coaching, NLP, how to write an ebook, or the host of other “disciplines” these scammers say they’ve studied.
Some of these individuals have obtained diplomas from diploma mills. Others may initially sound qualified but upon further investigation their certification was not earned through an accredited college or university or through any legitimate course of study.
I’ve made no such claims. And I’ve asked no one for any amount of money, an amount ending in seven or any other number.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
@Jaime,
In looking at Mr. Rock’s abstract the second line in it reads like this:
“Specifically, the issue of how to drive
change in human performance, through conversation.”
As you can see, this is not a complete sentence. It is a sentence fragment. It appears to illustrate something but it lacks a subject-verb component.
Any abstract purporting to be at the doctoral level that is written in this amateurish style is not the work of a serious academic.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
@Jaime, Evidently Middlesex has a name-your-own-degree Doctorate in Professional Studies (DProf) program.
@Anonymous, Wikipedia sucks, blah blah blah. Visit that Middlesex DProf page and click over to the Case Studies tab. David Rock is not among their success stories.
@Barbara, On page 10 he mentions “mindfulness mediation,” and on page 11 he ends a sentence with both a comma and a period. Wondrous.
Here’s another gem from Rock’s dissertation:
“I considered the study of psychology but was horrified by the then current theories regarding behaviorism.”
Now, before anyone says I’m NLP-bashing and NLP is all about touchy-feely personal experiences, contrast that with this published abstract for an NLP and hypnotherapy study:
“Subjective scoring and autonomic variables (heart rate, skin conduction span) were used to verify the reality of inner experience during recollection of emotionally neutral, positive, and negative past events in 19 high (HH) and 12 low (LH) hypnotizable subjects in hypnotic and nonhypnotic experimental sessions. Also, the influence of hypnotizability on the effectiveness of an imagery-based neurolinguistic programming (NLP) technique was evaluated.”
Quite science-y!
(Fingers crossed that the HTML works.)
  +3
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:24 am
@Lanna,
I stopped at the second attempt at a sentence. You read through to page eleven?! That’s not an experience for the faint of heart.
I saw that Middlesex offers the choose-your-own-adventure option of acquiring an advanced degree. I live in a midwestern city that has a notorious school for that kind of tripe. Marcus Bachman of the “pray away the gay” clinic has a degree, his doctorate, from this on-line “distance” learning institute. It’s a complete joke. If you can pay they’ll award you a doctoral degree in any garbage your scammy little heart desires.
  +5
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:32 am
@Lanna, I’d just found that. Jeez. Sounds like some idiot with an MBA has gotten hold of the leadership at Middlesex and decided they needed to offer some competition to diploma mills. Sad end to the reputation of once-distinguished university.
  +3
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 5:12 pm

Duff said:
Ok, so let’s summarize what we’ve learned.
The only dirt anyone could dig up on Tim Brownson was…
a) He is a life coach and some people dislike life coaches categorically (the whole “I’m going to report you” thing is childish, as if coaching is a crime in FL or something)
b) He had a testimonial up for Naomi Dunford and he removed it without a public statement. I think this probably was not needed in this case in my opinion. (I once railed Bill Harris for taking down James Arthur Ray’s testimonials without public statement, but that bastard killed people. I’ve also had clients who’ve done bad stuff and felt it unethical to post about it because of client confidentiality.)
c) He coaches other life coaches and isn’t wealthy. (In my opinion that is a plus because I have doubts about wealthy life coaches’ integrity)
d) He used anonymous usernames on a site and got into a heated argument with site owner and commenters.
In the age of embarrassing Facebook photos tagged with your name on it, if this is the worst someone can say about him it is all points in his favor.
Am I missing something? Please educate me if I am wrong.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
@Duff ::
Yes you are missing something … many things it sounds like.
And taking down a testimonial :: which served as both a promotion of her and him {because that’s how this game works} without remark :: when the promotion of her has caused obvious harm … is inherently unethical … on its face unethical.
Is death the only possible kind of harm? What sort of crazy argument is that?
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
@SD,
Death is not the only kind of harm, and I agree that Dunford was engaged in numerous harmful acts, both in business and in the bedroom.
He could have remarked about taking down the testimonial, but it would have had to be very discreet or else violate his commitment to client confidentiality. Coaches and therapists with integrity take this seriously. Perhaps he should have done so, but I’m not so sure when it comes to a client situation. To me it seems more like an ethical dilemma than a clear cut case of unethical behavior.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +1
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Duff,
Just curious as to how you know stuff went down in the bedroom? I was under the impression that was only rumor. Not that I’m defending her or anything, honestly just curious.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Shorty Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
@Duff,
Why would Tim need to be discrete? Confidentiality does not apply to addressing the removal of ND’s testimonial. For one thing, a testimonial is by it’s very nature a public declaration. Therefore there can be no breach of confidentiality in discussing the testimonial or its subsequent removal as it was never private information. When real companies wish to distance themselves from someone they’ve had a public relationship with, you bet they announce it. Gatorade made sure the public knew they dropped Tiger Woods after his infidelities became public. The way Tim handled this issue shows what an amateur he is which does not reflect well on his claim to be the go-to guy on how to run one’s coaching biz.
It is certainly not an integrity issue either. But you know what IS an integrity issue? Misrepresenting the extent of one’s relationship to the topic of discussion (ND)! There is no ethical dilemma whatsoever and it is a total misuse of logic to even imply so.
  +6
[Reply]

You're missing Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
@Duff,
You are missing something:
-He’s exchanged words with some of the Evil Third Tribe without immediately reporting them to the FBI
-He attracts clients and makes money using his blog (not a huge amount, by his own admission). As we all know, you can’t make money online. It even says so at the top of this website. Therefore, he must be a scammer, or lying, and probably both. Can’t you read?
-He’s a life coach. Enough said.
-He doesn’t have at least 4 degrees from SD-approved professional establishments. Therefore he’s guilty of practising medicine without the SD Royal Seal of Approval. Or something
-He has the temerity to comment on this blog using his own name, and a site which is his business. That’s like painting “please rape me, Salty, I’m an easy target” in big red letters on the side of your house
-He uses testimonials. The syndicate (and the third tribe) use testimonials. Therefore he is as bad as the syndicate. Simple logic, really
-He made the stupid mistake of sending an email to SD in the expectation it would be kept private, or not directly published. I don’t know where he got that stupid idea from. Maybe he’s dealt with real journalists who have standards and integrity and all that rubbish
Need I continue?
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +2
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
@You’re missing,
This is not helping your case, Tim.
  +4
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
@Duff ::
It’s not helping your case :: the case against Tim has already been closed.
[Reply]

Regrets Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
@Duff, I’ve been coming here a really long time, and if what you say is true, then the SD has totally lost it. Has he, then?
Who shows the most likely possibility of being untrustworthy? A person who chooses lies, deception and other unethical self-representation to cover his own ass, proven through a week’s worth of backtracking and hole digging… or the 4-year track record researching and exposing fraud that has not yet been wrong?
So if SD really is way off on this, it would be the first time and quite astonishing. I’d be the first to wash my hands of this site because I spend too much time here anyway. I agree this was a bit of a puzzler because I never knew much about the 3T, etc., but even I have managed to work through it (and you can too!)
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +2
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
@Regrets,
SD has not totally lost it in the least. He is a ruthless anti-scam robot, and he is very much on target 98% of the time.
  +3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
@Duff ::
Wow a 2% error rate??
That’s pretty bad considering the toughness of my tactics. Please go ahead and point out the goodguys I called badguys {in a headline no less} so that I can feel properly bad about it.
It’s easy to be 100% right when you never make a close call :: which I don’t :: and which this isn’t.
[Reply]

You're so silly Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
@Duff,
Curious about your take on Tim Brownson’s credentials. In the beginning, I bought that he wasn’t a “bad guy” based partly on his pursuit of “higher educationz”.
You’re a life coach, right? So tell us, Coach McDuffee, what do you honestly think of Tim’s credentials?
When would now be a good time to start … answer-ing this question about NLP and coaching credentials?
  +3
[Reply]

Sheila Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
@Duff, there’s also:
e) talked smack about his former client in an email to Salty. (Which would get him in awfully hot water if he was a licensed therapist, btw. Good thing he was merely a life coach.)
f) is still singing the praises of other members of the ‘third tribe’ clique, who may not be as openly vile as Naomi but are still in the business of selling shiny unicorns to people who fancy themselves ‘revolutionaries’ because they don’t want to work in a cubicle.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Salt Of The Earth Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:52 am
@Sheila,
g) “How to be Rich and Happy” book sounds like a frauduct to me.
  +4
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 11:52 am
@Duff, You were one of the people who carefully and kindly walked me through the modus operandi of Tony Robbins way back when I was one of his naive and thoughtless defenders. (And gathering thumbs down for it and getting my feelings hurt over some of the responses, too.) So I’ve got to say this post really surprised me. Then I realized that the present post doesn’t really quite do the situation justice. You have to go to the previous post, on Naomi Dunford and see it in context. Take note of his ‘pen names’ here and then go back and read through all the comments on that post. When you’ve watched him intervene time after time under assumed names to deflect the discussion away from the topic- then deny under his OWN name that he ‘had met’ any of the people discussed- then claim that he hadn’t mentioned his connection to the subject of the post- Naomi Dunford – because of ‘client confidentiality’ (ignoring the fact that it would be completely unethical for her to give him a testimonial to his coaching if he HADN’T coached her)- his crazy twisting of word meanings to avoid acknowledging the misleading title of his book- and the ever-changing story about a) his relationships to people and b) who he was defending… Well, it was pretty jaw-dropping.
I started out with considerable sympathy for him. By the time he’d gotten through tying himself into knots of self-justification that was gone. I don’t know – maybe it’s a male-female difference, too. When someone attacks me and questions my integrity my reaction is to get hurt and embarrassed – and to examine my own behavior carefully to try and figure out what I might have said or done to provoke such a reaction. Maybe men are more likely to go into aggressive counter-attack mode without pausing to consider their own actions. But I have to be wary, because the only times in my life I’ve come close to getting dangerously hurt were times when I let a vague, nagging suspicion of someone be suppressed by a furiously indignant response by the object of my suspicion that I ‘didn’t trust him’.
So I’ll just say to you and to Tim what I wish I’d known to say to those men who tried to shame or intimidate me into trusting them against my instincts: None of us are ever under any obligation to trust anyone else or take them at their own evaluation of themselves. If you are a professional, it’s up to YOU to prove that you deserve to be trusted. And if you do something to lose that trust, don’t expect it to be given again easily- no matter how indignant you get.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
So ya, thought ya, might like to
go to the show
to feel the warmth with love come future in that space cadet glow
I got some bad news for you sunshine
Pink isnt well he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We’re gonna find out where you fans really stand
Are there any queers in the theater tonight
Get him against the wall
Against the wall!
Now theres one in the spotlight he dont look like to me
Get him up against the wall
Against the wall!
And that one looks Jewish! and that ones a coon!
Who let all of this riff raff into the room.
Theres one smoking a joint, and another with spots
If I had my way
I’d have all of them shot
Salty had some good stuff and was on a legit mission.
But as with these kinds of missions, the McCarthyism takes over and everyone eventually becomes a communist on the blacklist.
The Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, Southern vigilantism and lynchings – history is chock full of “Salty Droids”.
While Salty was morally justified in the beginning, I predict that his overly-confident, self-aggrandizing style will eventually overcome his sensibility, and he will shine his spotlight on someone who will be unafraid of the bully pulpit. I predict that person will sue Salty Droid, meet his challenge of fearmongering over showing their business accounting, and Jason Jones will lose his assets and website in a civil courtroom tort showdown.
Once the threshold gets crossed into the territory where indiscriminate targets get caught up in the fervor of vigilantism, an innocent person will get damaged, retaliate, and bring an end to what was once a legitimate mission.
Mark my words, history has yet to stop repeating itself.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Yawnzo Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
@Roger Waters, Yawn. Your comment follows the template and agenda of every other troll comment before it. All generalization, no detailed specifics, no specific defenses, no named defendant, and condemning SD for his “style.”
Laughably, “indiscriminate targets” sounds precisely like code for “my scammer buddies.” The names on this blog aren’t getting drawn from a hat. There is nothing “indiscriminate” involved when reasons and specifics are consistently provided.
It’s surprising you didn’t set off own your own smoke detector from blowing so much smoke.
  +3
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Yawnzo, and your response follows ad hominim style of every other person who has voiced a shred of slight dissent.
GET EM UP AGAINST THE WALL!
Because if you express any slight dissent in tactics or other expression of the groupthink, YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM!! It’s certainly easier to dismiss any other viewpoint under that narrow view than actually using cognitive thought processes to define the differences between the simplistic US vs. THEM AND NO ONE ELSE mindet.
Classic cult building 101 in the same style that the scammers use.
You’re no better.
Just like Democrats vs. Republicans… they both suck because they’re two sides of the same coin. Alternative thought processes need not apply.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Yawnza Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
@Roger Waters,
“ad hominim” to you must mean when someone asks you for specific detailed examples when you have none to provide.
You AGAIN still have not provided ANY detailed examples, just MORE of the same smoke.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Yawnza, where exactly did you actually ask me for specific detailed examples?
You didn’t.
You never once asked me for any, so don’t go responding now as if you did.
Put down the bong. That’s the only smoke being blown.
The specific example is Tim B. As Duff (a very dedicated regular around here) commented, he really didn’t do all that much wrong.
I concur. They guy might be a big gullible, maybe embellishes his own world, but to no degree does he justify the full-on Salty Droid spotlight feature with the band of chimpanzee pile on.
There isn’t a single person commenting on this site that didn’t engage in selective deletion about specific facts pertaining to their own career in an effort to land a job.
It’s a fact in any HR department that 100% of all applicants embellish on their CV.
It’s also irrelevant whether or not Jason Jones, you, or anyone else believes that coaching is or isn’t a valid career. It is legal, and Tim does no wrong by offering those services. It’s not up to you or anyone else to thrust him into some sort of public spotlight because you take issue with his business.
And THAT is the basis of my initial post. This agenda and action against Tim starts to nudge up against the line of defamatory tort. As that line continues to be pushed, eventually it will be crossed with someone who will take the challenge and meet Jason Jones in a courtroom.
I don’t cite specifics because it hasn’t happened quite yet – just getting closer and closer.
LOSER!! ::   -5

what?? Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
@Roger Waters,
So, SD is morally justified and his cause is a noble one until you decide otherwise? And you back your opinion up with song lyrics and historical references as evidence? Maybe you should work on your convincing argument skills.
  +6
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@what??, SD is morally justified in his efforts up to the point where the conspiracy widens to include any innocent person who isn’t actually engaged in “scamming” per the legal definition, who also dares to voice any caution or dissent from the cult-think. At some point, the line will be crossed.
I am neither a scammer or a bizop make money online seller. I am a casual observer who has watched the industry and Jason Jones’ saga.
In typical fashion, I was already greeted with the response of “YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM” by one of the vigilante band of sycophants.
This is anthropology 101. It’s the monkeys picking ticks off of each other’s backs in exchange for help in the next skirmish. There’s no difference in what Salty’s tribe is doing here than the overt scammers in what they do. Both end up arriving at the same place of hurting innocent people.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
@Roger Waters, Oh, come on. The only ‘hurting of innocent people’ that Salty can possibly do is hurting someone’s feelings. If that’s as much of a crime in your eyes as killing four people- or maxing out the credit cards of the sick and elderly under pretext of setting them up in a fool-proof business- then, yeah, I guess there’s really no difference – to you. Which just tells me that you’re incredible narcissist at the very least.
Most of us who comment here much get down-voted sooner or later. Somehow we manage to struggle through and survive the tragedy. But hey, don’t let that interfere with your great martyr-for-truth drama. We’ll be happy to support you in your self-appointed role by continuing to vote you down.
  +4
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Wanderlost, so you equate Tim with James Ray? Frank Kern?
Defamation isn’t a crime in the US BTW, it’s a civil tort.
Now I am an incredible narcissist.
The rush to judgement in an effort to combat the dissent is powerful huh.
LOSER!! ::   -6

Yvette Scott Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Wanderlost,
You said:
“I’m getting a HUGE kick out of watching people out themselves over Salty’s new tag-line. The very THOUGHT that they may not be going to make a gazibillion dollars- or ANY dollars- on the internet seems to be driving some folks into an absolute stark staring bonkers frenzy.”
-The only one in a frenzy appears to be you.
“Which brings me to a question I’m really curious about… What IS the secret of producing huge gobs of internet moola by putting up a free site (to the public- ‘cuz I know a site that gets megaloads of traffic is sure not free to run) with NO advertising, NO ‘tip jar’, NO frauducts – or even products, no book, no ‘coaching’- no nothing at all except tons of facts about creepy creeps that really need to be stepped on- in a sometimes not so funny and an often REALLY funny way? I mean, is he supposed to be getting kick backs from dirtbags to out other dirtbags or what? ‘Cause I’ve got a whole harddrive full of all KINDS of phony secrets from some of the best-known fraudsters out there and not ONE of them gives me a single clue on how someone would pull this off.”
-I haven’t a clue either. I don’t know if you can make money on the internet or not…I never tried. I subscribe to the nothing in life is free, work hard, play hard, enjoy your life school of thought.
“Or- is THAT what’s driving these folks into such a frenzied fury? Do they think Salty’s captured his own super-unicorn that shits gold bricks- and he’s not doing a single- ‘and-you-can-too’ course?”
-I still see no one else in a frenzy.
“Yvette? ANYONE?”
-Since you asked me, and since this thread already had on great song posted, here is one for you.
ARTIST: Buffalo Springfield
TITLE: For What It’s Worth
There’s something happening here
What it is ain’t exactly clear
There’s a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
There’s battle lines being drawn
Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
I think it’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you’re always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Stop, now, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
Stop, children, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down
LOSER!! ::   -6

Yawnza Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@Roger Waters, Oh, look, another general comment devoid of ANY specifics but loaded with more generalities.
“the conspiracy widens to include any innocent person”
Conspiracy? “Any innocent person?” Care to name one? Care to provide some details? Oh, you can’t? Surprise, surprise.
You are NOT a casual observer by any means whatsoever. You are, however, a liar with an agenda.
  +3
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Yawnza,
Now I am an incredible narcissist and a liar with an agenda.
I am thankful that I have a strong theory of mind, which enables me to see things from other viewpoints. I feel fortunate to not be so rigidly narrow-minded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind
LOSER!! ::   -10

SD Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
@Roger Waters ::
1. You ain’t cool enough to quote that song son … please! That’s a fucking tragedy all by itself.
2. Your “predictions” are as valuable as a bag of donkey dicks.
3. Jason Jones can’t lose anything in a “courtroom showdown” drama queen :: cause The Salty Droid is fully owned by Fake Robot LLC … and Illinois company. Jason’s just the company’s writer :: and lawyer. Look it up motherfuckers!
I know super smart gurus like Dave Navarro and Naomi Dunford mix up their personal and business assets all willy nilly … or don’t even bother with paperwork at all.
But here at Fake Robot LLC :: we keep the writing … and the paperwork … tight!
Thanks for stopping by Roger … you n00b.
PS Life coaching isn’t a real thing.
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, then you must also realize that you would also be named personally in an action. You personally act on behalf of the LLC, which doesn’t mitigate your personal culpability in the tort action.
If a driver of a JB Hunt rig plows into a schoolbus on the job, the parents of the injured kids will sue him personally in addition to the company.
Right?
BTW… unless you’ve recently passed the BAR, (which I may have admittedly missed out on) representing yourself publicly as an attorney is a crime in most states. So if you’re saying you’re representing an LLC as it’s legal counsel, are you violating IL statutes regarding practicing law without a license?
This isn’t an attack, but a genuine question as I don’t know your professional status or IL statute per se.
I have gotten a lot of entertainment out of this site, and believed in the mission when it was directed at genuine scam artists loading up the call centers with potential marks.
But with this Tim thing, whether or not you believe coaching is a real profession is irrelevant as it pertains to the potential damages that you’ve potentially caused a man’s legal business through your actions on this site. It’s an unregulated profession, and as such, legal in every respect. To disparage him as an individual in such a visible, public forum when he really wasn’t a “public figure” by definition (or at least meeting the definition of such as a jury would likely see it), runs pretty close to the line of defamatory tort.
Surely a fake robot attorney would have recognized that potential in his fervent zeal – even if the guy was/is a bonafide douchenozzle.
Predictions being the bag of donkey dicks that they are, I still sincerely offer up a smidgen of caution to you in this latest campaign.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@Roger Waters ::
Are you life coaching me right now?
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, nope. Just offering my own opinion like everyone else on this site.
But you’re welcome to send me money if you think it’s of enough value. I never turn away free internet moneys.
LOSER!! ::   -8

Doctor Mario Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
@Roger Waters ::
whether or not you believe coaching is a real profession is irrelevant as it pertains to the potential damages that you’ve potentially caused a man’s legal business through your actions on this site.
Don’t be silly @Roger Waters … Did you read the article?
The potential damages caused to that man[-child]‘s legal “business” were caused by his own {self-damaging} actions. @SD just highlighted the less visible of those for all to see.
Then @Tim Brownson hung around “defending” himself — which ultimately made him look worse — while DEFINITELY classifying himself as a “limited public figure” in this context …
(@ least according to my read of Aaron Wall’s expertlaw.com article on the subject)
A person can also become a “limited public figure” by engaging in actions which generate publicity within a narrow area of interest.
In fact … Tim’s case is almost identical (tho stupider & less amusing) to the Terry Rakolta case used as an example there.
@Roger Waters :: {a handle you do not deserve} :: Please provide some SPECIFIC examples as to exactly how this is a misguided witch hunt … and which non-witches you feel have been targeted. I’m genuinely interested — maybe you can prove me wrong.
If your whole argument is that @Tim Brownson has been unfairly {targeted} … because you personally don’t feel his lying, deceit, and trolling on this anti-lying, anti-deceit, anti-trolling site warrants his own post here … then I think you need to check your “Theory of Mind” analysis of this article / its readership/ this whole website’s function.
Or maybe check your {non-disclosed} Affiliations?
Or maybe STFU?
  +4
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 6:09 pm

Doctor Mario said:
lolol … because of this comment thread in my gmail inbox … peep this hilarious contextual ad I got ::
“Become a Life Coach $397 – FowlerWainwright.com/FreeWebinar – Earn Your Certification in 16 Hours Now Over 3000 Successful Graduates”
Disclaimer :: @Tim Brownson’s Life Coaching certifications include far more than a mere 16 hour e-learning course, because he tells me here ::
+ Certified Life Coach – Achievement Specialists; Bournemouth, UK
+ Certified NLP Life Coach – Mental Combat; Rochdale UK
+ Certified Practitioner of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) – Mental Combat; Rochdale, UK
+ Certified Practitioner of Time Line Therapy – Mental Combat; Rochdale, UK
+ Certified Master Practitioner of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) – Society of NLP/ExecuLearn; Orlando, FL
+ Certified Master Practitioner of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) – Phoenix Services For Personal Development; Orlando, FL
+ Certified Hypnotherapist – Phoenix Services For Personal Development, Orlando, FL
+ Core Transformation Training – Phoenix Services For Personal Development, Orlando, FL
With his higher degrees from credible institutions like Mental Combat & Phoenix Services … plus a full 6 years of tinkering with people’s lives under his belt … Tim is like a Phd in Life Coaching.
… Life Coaching! Only 16 hours {e-learning training} and you can too!
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Doctor Mario Reply:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
@Doctor Mario ::
lololol :: here’s another Life Coaching contextual ad that @Tim Brownson can totally relate to ::
“Coaching made me broke – http://www.TrainingtobeaLifeCoach.com – 5 Critical Questions to ask before you start your own coach practice.”
  +6
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:05 am
@Doctor Mario,
From the left sidebar of Phoenix Services …
“The Tibetan Star
Check out our newest CD. This pleasant guided process, handed down from shaman teachers has been an inspiration to so many of our students and workshops participants that we just had to make it available to you. You will learn a simple exercise that will help you to mobilize your heart and mind to MANIFEST YOUR DREAMS. You CAN have the life that you want and the Tibetan Star can help you to actualize it.”
And from Mental Combat’s NLP program …
“On completion of the full training program you will be able to:
· Start your own Coaching Practice and learn ways to build your clients confidence
· Become a great leader that understands how to inspire people to align to your vision
· Be a better trainer and ensure students commit to learning
· Become a fantastic customer service agent and learn to handle those difficult customers
· Excel in your profession
· Create success and achievement in yourself and others
· Become a professional Corporate Coach
· Improve your personal life
· Get “anybody” to like you
· Increase your income
· Effectively elicit information from others”
Now, I feel much better about Tim Brownson’s life coaching services.
  +6
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 9:11 pm

Salt Of The Earth said:
I knew someone who wanted to be a life coach – he seemed ok in the beginning but as I found out he turned out to be one of the most fucked up people I have ever met.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]
# 16 September 2011 at 2:50 am

BloggyBloggerton said:
Just read David Risley is stepping back from the MMO niche (a little anyway). I wonder if it was due to the little cameo in this post.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:11 am
@BloggyBloggerton,
New comment on that post …
“Michael Martine :: I’ve been thinking along the same lines, just haven’t posted about it. I am, however, drawing up plans for something new.”
Yes, it’s because of SD.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
@BloggyBloggerton ::
Kinda seems more like he’s taking the opportunity to blame his customers for how they can’t possibly have any success with his bull crap.
The reality is that there’s only so much I can say. It gets to a point where my customers just need to get off their ass and do something.
http://www.davidrisley.com/crossroads-internet-marketing/
The reality is that there’s NOTHING he can say … because nothing is just what he knows about how-to be successful on the webs.
[Reply]
# 16 September 2011 at 4:56 am

Yusuf Clack said:
I thought hard before posting here because I have plenty of flaws, inconsistencies and areas to poke holes in. And I’d really prefer to avoid being investigated and called out on those flaws at least by this process. I do appreciate feedback and even reprimands from my loved ones and people who know me because I think they’re in a good position to offer it.
But as much as I’d prefer to avoid the hassle of scrutiny, I prefer even more to avoid the cowardly feeling of not at least sharing my own interaction with Tim since there is an open calling for his clients to speak up and few have said anything (haven’t read all 400 comments).
I hired Tim for a 4 session package, opting for for a deal he offered through his newsletter.
You may consider me weak for hiring a ‘life coach’ but I’ve found over and over again in my life the value of gaining a new perspective on things to help me move past whatever I seem to be sticking on at the moment.
I don’t think everyone needs a ‘life coach’ but some people need help seeing ‘reality,’ not an overly positive delusion, but also not an overly negative one either, which I’ve been prone to in the past.
After Tim listened to my issue at the time, he instantly picked up on a language pattern I was repeating which turns out was adding to my stress each time I resorted to a couple crutch phrases revolving around ‘need to’ and ‘have to.’
We also did a values exercise which is something quite useful, too detailed to get into here. Interestingly ‘Loyalty’ was one of the values that ranked high for me. Finally, after we felt the high level, mindset type stuff was on track, he helped me with some more nuts and bolts business stuff, connecting me with a killer resource I would not have found otherwise.
I believe Tim delivered and was intent on making sure he offered as much value as he possibly could in the time allotted. I found the money to be well spent. Did it result in me instantly growing my business? No. But what I learned is something I’ve passed on and was useful to a few friends I could see carrying the same burden I was. It’s helped me continue to move forward and build my business a little everyday, excited about the possibility ahead.
One really cool thing about Tim is that he does try and build a dependency which would be better for business. He basically told me I’m squared away and confirmed that other than a few issues around language. In his position, he could have easily pitched me on another package or program.
While I see the value in uncovering the new pyramid scheme appearing with the major players of the internet marketing world, I really disagree with skewering people to the Nth degree unless you know their intent to be malicious and or the public stands to be harmed which I guess is the point of this blog. But I don’t see Tim harming anyone, quite the opposite.
Most of us commenting here have areas of life we’re inconsistent in and would hate to have all of those inconsistencies placed out on display for the world to see.
I don’t expect SD to agree with characterizing the actions in question as ‘inconsistencies’- nor do I expect my post to help anything. But felt it important to note my positive experience in hopes that it would help anyone on the fence about Tim to lean more on the side of ‘good guy, skilled at what he does, who fell into some behavior he’d like to take back.
That does not make a liar/fraudster in my book. If it does in your world, then I’d like to meet the people you hang out with and live in the community you live in, because you must not have the same human experience I do, where I run into flawed humans every day and choose to like them and think well of them despite their many faults and inconsistencies.
I pray that all of us can purify our intentions and be careful to avoid the nasty witch-hunt, mob mentality that has been the start of many tragedies/crimes carried out throughout history. May God guide us to the middle path which keeps us from being silent about evil when harm results and from falling into an overly zealous, self-righteous approach which leads to witch-hunting, kangaroo courts, and a heavy handed approach to ‘justice.’
Sincerely,
Yusuf Clack
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

BananaTaco Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
I fully support this.
  +2
[Reply]

Think Again Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
@BananaTaco, Except “this” was not an expression of generalized, unbiased philosophy, “this” was CUSTOMIZED for a specific purpose, and modified and presented accordingly.
By customized, I mean like this:
“…it would help anyone on the fence about Tim to lean more on the side of ‘good guy…”
When someone actually spells out their intent to steer you, then it’s fair to assume you are probably beeing steered.
  +6
[Reply]

Kevin Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Yusuf Clack, You focused on the touchy-feely, and you haven’t even remotely addressed what was actually detailed in SDs post or what we’ve seen here over the past week: Tim’s specific behavior and actions.
You are not only looking at things through rose colored glasses, you are looking at things through rose colored glasses PROVIDED by Tim Brownson.
Try another optician, then take the time to look at the actual details, if you can get past your predisposition to favor Tim regardless.
Touchy-feely is a style of interaction, not a suitable justification.
  +4
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
@Yusuf Clack ::
Why should his clients speak up? What difference should that make to me?
I’m pointing to specific actions by Tim … and specific intentional associations. Address yourself to those … or I don’t care. I’m glad you think it wasn’t a huge waste of your money to talk to some fool on the phone about your “language patterns”. You are free to cherish your silly superstitions.
Tim was shilling for Naomi even though he knew she was shit. He trolled here in support of lies … he pretended to be a neutral when he had a direct financial interest … he lied on my don’t fucking lie website. So he can suck it … and your comment is nothing but fluff and anecdote.
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:10 am
@Yusuf Clack, according to Salty Droid’s standards, Bill Parcells should have never been a winning coach because he never actually played a single game in the NFL as a player.
This site is degenerating into a witch hunt, and while it once was a great platform to discuss real fraudsters, I expect that it will continue to spiral down into the pits towards outright despotism towards anyone the angry mob decides is worthy of their pitchforks and torches.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -3
[Reply]

Yawnzo Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
@Roger Waters,
“while it once was a great platform to discuss real fraudsters, I expect that it will continue to spiral down into the pits”
Translation: “It was great right up until it started looking around my neighborhood”
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Yawnzo, in another life, you certainly must have been in the crowd screaming at the witch as Joan of Arc burned.
Translation: It was a great platform until the vigilantism branded anyone who disagreed with the tactic of widening accusations as “one of them” — as you have done.
Great logic. If I disagree with you because of your tactics, I MUST be one of THOSE PEOPLE!
It’s like christianity… if you had evidence, it wouldn’t require faith, and it must require faith in order for you to truly be a member of the club. So evidence be damned.
You’re as bad as the scammers.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Trolltracker Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@Roger Waters,
No specific details? NONE? Just another childish psychotic outburst?
Funny how you use the word EVIDENCE but you can’t provide ANY proof of innocence for anyone on this blog. None. Zip. Nada. Zilch.
You still have NOT named ANY of the innocent people at all. You did say PEOPLE, so that means you should have a list to prove what you claim. Where is your proof?
If you think people are innocent, then you surely want to clear them if they’ve already been named here. Who do you want to clear? Give specific details. Provide proof.
If you won’t…it’s because you can’t.
Still waiting…also waiting.
  +1
[Reply]

also waiting Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Trolltracker,
“Still waiting…also waiting”
Oops – wrong. And wrong ! I’m not “Roger Waters”, or “still waiting” either. You’re not a very good Troll Tracker, are you ?
Serious question.
Have you guys considered the possibility that what you are seeing here is NOT in fact just one or two trolls on mission but actually a whole load of individuals standing up for what they believe ?
In fact, a “silent majority” as Yvette suggested who (shock horror) think that SD’s recent posts are way off the mark ?
Could THAT be why Tim’s post still has a very positive vote rating, not actually a Syndicate-powered conspiracy as SD believes ?
I think you should at least CONSIDER the possibility, because if that was true, it would mean that things aren’t going nearly as well here as SD thinks.
LOSER!! ::   -6

Randall Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
@also waiting, To answer your “serious” question. I’d say the majority of people are not dupes nor scammers, and aren’t into supporting scammers as much as you are. Salty is in a good position to observe trolls attempting to game the comments here, and it has definitely been noted. So don’t inflate your importance to your “bad movement.”
You know, I’ve been reading this blog for several years, and I have a prediction for you.
I predict, “@also waiting,” that you are going to be outed. When that happens, and your scheming here is connected to your real agenda (aka defensive posturing over your big league scammer aspirations), you’ll have all the comment attention you always wanted. It won’t help your failing business, but free publicity is good publicity, right?
Salty has been known to let scammer trolls play themselves out over time, even after he’s uncovered their specs and sins. Everything in its proper time and place.
When your well deserved time comes around, maybe some of your fellow scammer trolls will try to make you look less devious, as impossible as that might be.
Prediction #2:
Y.W.N.B.A.T.R.R.T.T.B.Y.E.C.B.Y.B. S.I.W.R.
WINNER!! ::   +7

Wanderlost Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 7:01 am
@also waiting- “Have you guys considered the possibility that what you are seeing here is NOT in fact just one or two trolls on mission but actually a whole load of individuals standing up for what they believe ?”
Yes, for about two seconds. Want to know why I rejected it? It’s because you’ve got a very obvious pattern here- one or two of Tim’s saner and more sympathetic posts have gotten huge numbers of up-votes. One or two of his defenders have also gotten enough up-votes to pull them back out of oblivion. Others- notably ‘Bud’ – have been left to dangle in the wind. (Which suggests to me that ‘Bud’ really is an honest dupe. Sorry about that, Bud- but you’re still young- I expect you’ll figure out who your friends are in time.) The rest of us- a mix of the previously scammed, friends and relations of victims and simple train-wreck watchers, have received our usual pattern of votes: that is particularly thoughtful replies have gotten lots of up-votes, most get a scattering of up-votes, and a few who don’t really have much to add and have an unpleasant manner – or who seem to be missing the point- get down-votes.
Do you know what this kind of pattern is consistent with? It’s consistent with people being directed to particular posts. It is completely INconsistent with a great silent majority carefully reading and evaluating the arguments- and concluding that Tim is a great martyr and the rest of us are a brainless, pitch-fork wielding, robot-worshipping mob.
It didn’t take Salty to tell me the voting was being manipulated. I don’t, of course, know what the mechanism is- but if it IS actual people doing the voting I can see there’s a problem: if you just ask them to go read the two threads for themselves you risk people beginning to wake up and think for themselves. On the other hand, giving too many specific links and names is too transparent, even for the most thoroughly brainwashed of followers.
That said I won’t be hugely surprised if this gets buried in an avalanche of down-votes- or particularly bothered, either. I’m far too old to cut my conscience to fit a pattern set by any majority- silent or otherwise.
  +6

V. P. Centrifico Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@Roger Waters, Oh! A COACHING reference. Got it. You don’t like the fact that SD thinks untrained, unbrained, unaccomplished, self-appointed armchair “coaches” who think they are worth as much as clinical psychologists are full of manure? Well, you ARE, so he would be right.
  +6
[Reply]

Roger Waters Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@V. P. Centrifico,
Yet another Saul Alinsky-esque attempt to discredit the messenger with a misdirected attack.
I am not in the coaching business. I am not in the make money online internet marketing business.
I don’t care for how one person’s opinion turns into a bully pulpit where the masses widen the implications to indict anyone who may dissent from the Borg.
If you knew my personal identity, one or more of you, up to and including Jason Jones, would already be on a self-appointed mission to not only discredit my posting here, but to figure out some way to damage my professional reputation, defame my family in some fashion, and otherwise create any manner of havoc possible to satisfy your own, misguided psychology.
One has to wonder what kind of people spend so much time and energy on such things. Like the pedophiles of 4chan’s /b/ Anonymous group for example.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
@Roger Waters,
‘If you knew my personal identity, one or more of you, up to and including Jason Jones, would already be on a self-appointed mission to not only discredit my posting here, but to figure out some way to damage my professional reputation, defame my family in some fashion, and otherwise create any manner of havoc possible to satisfy your own, misguided psychology.’
Think you’re that important to us, really?
Just a touch of paranoia showing there. Paranoia has its roots in an unrealistically inflated sense of self-importance, often conflated with unresolved guilt.
I, for one, have no interest in your personal delusions. You are welcome to worry about pitchforks, torches and the medieval fate of Joan D’Arc all by your lonesome.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:14 am
@Roger Waters, Witch hunt? Joan d’Arc? My, aren’t we just full of hysterical analogies that aren’t even close? Don’t disappoint us now, go ahead and hit Godwin’s law too.
By the way, how does simply pointing out the mixed messages and goofy comments Tim posted – both anonymously and under his own name – amount to defamation? I is no lawyer, so please explain to me in itty-bitty words.
No, I think as others have noted, SD is hitting close to home, and you are trying to deflect. Nice try, but in case you didn’t notice, that doesn’t work out very well, unless you are into self-immolation.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@Roger Waters,
A Bill Parcells/sports analogy, huh? Interesting! Ever notice how people who sell life coaching love sports analogies and always say things like, “Of course you need to hire a coach, even Michael Jordan had a coach!”.
Newsflash for everyone who doesn’t really understand sports or the way analogies are supposed to work…a sports team coach is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from a life coach! In sports a coach manages all the players like pieces on a chess board, his job is to be a strategist. The coach may never have had the physical talent to excel at the sport, but he/she needs to understand the game better than anyone and know the opposition and their strengths and weaknesses. That’s a real coach’s job.
Fuzzy-wuzzy new wage (I love this term…thanks SD posters!) coaches don’t control their clients in the same way and apparently often don’t even have any specific expertise in their clients’ business areas. Bill Parcells had extensive specific knowledge about football and like every professional sports coach he spent hours and hours every week staying up-to-date on his sport. No life coach spends anywhere near that level of effort being an expert on … um, what are life coaches expert in?!
  +3
[Reply]

Dale Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
@, “um, what are life coaches expert in?!”
Self-declared life coaches are “expert” in:
1. Gravitating to something that doesn’t require them to have any education or training, because it’s easier than putting any effort into real education or working some “job.”
2. Doesn’t require a license, because they would never be able to get one.
3. Allows them to do or say whatever they want, because they answer to nobody but PayPal.
The thing about becoming a “life coach:”
Anyone can become one in 1 second.
There. Did you see that?
I’m now a “life coach.”
Any questions?
Oops. Too late. I’ve decided I am no longer a “life coach.”
Don’t fret though! If you blink, you’ll probably find another 1,000 new “life coaches” to choose from.
  +6
[Reply]

Shorty Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
@Dale, but none of them will be as honest as you :(. You were the best life coach ever!
  +4
[Reply]
# 16 September 2011 at 11:51 am

Yusuf Clack said:
One more thing — so wrong to take a video still frame and post that as the main picture (I assume that is what it is.) Looks like Tim is illustrating something or trying to inject some color into a point he’s making and you take a still shot from a frame? That’s not showing ‘reality.’ That’s coloring it through your own filter. A regular photo of the people you slice up or the actual video clip segment would be more credible and fair. But I guess entertainment is a huge part of the whole equation…
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +2
[Reply]

Kevin Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@Yusuf Clack,
“That’s not showing ‘reality.’ That’s coloring it through your own filter. A regular photo of the people you slice up or the actual video clip segment would be more credible and fair…”
You mean a “REGULAR PHOTO” like a POSED “product shot?” Or maybe a POSED “book cover?” Or a POSED photograph showing what you are selling looking better than a customer will ever get it to look? Yeah, sure. This isn’t a promotional site.
The police release mug shots that are completely “unflattering.” They don’t wait for that “perfect moment” to grab a picture. They are not required to provide a hairstylist and makeup along with wardrobe.
If you just happen to have some “regular,” unposed photographs of any of these clowns with their hair down, just lying around, be sure to let SD know. Maybe he’ll use them. Or maybe not.
This blog isn’t meant to flatter. Nor do the people on it deserve any.
But I guess showing DBs in their ‘best light’ is a huge part of YOUR equation…
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
@Yusuf Clack ::
That’s not showing ‘reality.’ That’s coloring it through your own filter.
Oh yeah??
http://saltydroid.info/jeff-walkers-poison-launch-formula/
How you like me now?
This is a comedy/satire site u freak :: if you no like comedy/satire then go back to Oprah and changing-your-life phone consults.
[Reply]
# 16 September 2011 at 11:55 am

SD (author) said:
You trolls know I can see you manipulating the voting right?
ha!
So pathetic … and you’re losing anyway.
Maybe I’ll start charging a nickel a vote and then I’ll be rich … biatch!!
[Reply]
# 16 September 2011 at 6:58 pm

Anonymous said:
Cannot believe he actually tried to persuade anyone to believe that “Johnny B. Truant” is a real person. My teachers used that name as an example back in high school. Tim Brownose should read U. Ben Hadd’s testimonial about how everything was going along just fine in the scamming biz until he found himself being a crazy robot’s new hobby.
  +5
[Reply]

hrmmm Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:21 am
@, Johnny B. Truant is the “name” of another online marketer.
You know, sort of like Faith Popcorn – the stupider the name, the better, because then people remember (how much of a complete tool) you (are).
  +4
[Reply]
# 17 September 2011 at 5:28 am

Tim Brownson said:
I know I said I wouldn’t post here again, but after being told that a few people had stepped into to support me, I came back to read and I wanted to tie up a few loose ends.
When I first posted on the Thursday evening (I believe) it was late and I’d had a glass of wine, or maybe two. Shock, horror I know a Life Coach that likes a drink every now and then. I should be flogged!
I admit to being almost a complete noob to this site (read a bit about the Belcher deal, but never bothered with the comments), and not realizing quite what was going on.
I did suspect something because so many people were anonymous, so I posted anonymously. Not under 13 different aliases as some seem to think, in fact I can only remember using two (bunny badger & I’m Perry Belcher), but it may have been 3 or even 4, but certainly no more.
I thought I was having fun. Yeh, yeh I know, in retrospect that is ridiculous.
On the Friday I had a 450 miles trip to make, something I can only do dosed up to the gills on hydrocortisone. About 25 miles from Fort Myers my nephew contacted me to tell me my eldest sister had had a pulmonary embolism in both lungs and things didn’t look good.
I dropped off the books at the University, had a brief Q & A with the Faculty and left John my co-author to deliver a speech to the students.
When I got home about 10ish I was whacked, but like an idiot I went on my computer to check some stuff and refreshed the Sd page.
Then I got drawn into the whole thing properly. I was tired, upset and worried. Not excuses, not looking for any sympathy, just how it was, and my judgment was crap.
A few questions have been raised that I’ll try and answer.
The reason I don’t get a job back in sales to help pay my medical bills is twofold.
One, I don’t want to because I love what I do and I don’t care about the money, at least whilst we can just about get by.
Two, my medical history is a real mess and any HR department from a sales organization would probably piss themselves laughing before they would risk hiring me.
I have never once posted anonymously since I posted under my real name. I wasn’t flicking backward and forwards as some people seem to presume.
My ‘defense’ as it was, of ND, was BEFORE any ‘proof’ came out. And even then I was asking questions not making a statement that she was either guilty or innocent.
When it did come out I was shocked and felt stupid to say the least. I felt I had to take her testimonial down and I did.
** Droid edit :: ridiculously exploitative content deleted **
As I said to Salty in the e-mail she is very plausible, and (I could get caned for this, but I’m going to say it anyway), very likable. I had no reason to suspect any of this and it saddens me.
I have commented on hundreds of blogs over the years and no doubt some were run by nefarious types, but jeez, if leaving a blog comment is a signpost of guilt, then half the population on the planet are caught up in the conspiracy.
Salty said that I didn’t need to have met these people like Belcher because it’s the Internet. But most of them, not only have I never met them, I’ve never spoken to them, or even interacted with them in any way, shape or form.
I’ve never attended a single blogging or marketing event in my life and probably never will. I’m a Life Coach that blogs and not a blogger that coaches because he’s built a sizable readership and wants to exploit it.
I only knew of Belcher because he was all over the Orlando news for selling fake meds.
I have had guest posts run on other sites because that’s part of my SEO strategy if they have a decent Alexa ranking. Until last week I never even knew some of these sites were supposedly ‘dodgy’.
And when I do post, I do my best to offer constructive help and advice to the people that read.
I wanted to post again to thank the people that stopped in to support me. I had numerous offers from people via text and e-mail and with every one I asked them not to. I have not encouraged one person to post here on my behalf and I could have easily done so.
I know Duff (who by the way I have a tremendous amount of respect for and who is brutally honest – he thinks my book is crap btw!) thought I was posting the other night. I wasn’t.
This is my first comment since I apologized about the whole EFT misread to Alison.
I’m pretty sure Salty would have exposed me if he thought I was posting anonymously, and as a blogger of 5 years I know how easy it is to track IP addresses. He’ll have two of mine and know when I’m commenting
I am holding my hands up to acting poorly, but I still stand by what I said about Life Coaching and the people I supported. If I’m proven wrong, then I’ll apologize, but I prefer to trust people until I know otherwise, rather than be suspicious of everybody.
That may lead to some egg on chin moments like this whole escapade and feeling let down, but I’d rather be a bit gullible than live my life suspicious of everybodys motives and actions. I simply don’t have the energy to do that.
Thanks for reading and this time I really am outta here.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
Did you seriously just identify the victim of a childhood rape on a public forum? Is she still a minor?
I’m going to delete that part of your comment … because it is wildly inappropriate … especially since it’s offered in support of the proposition that criminals can trick people … which is the whole point of this fucking site.
And Tim :: Perry Belcher was in Memphis … he was arrested by Memphis locals … it was a Memphis story.
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
@SD, No she isn’t a minor or even close and she ok’ed me mentioning it. I know you think I’m low and stupid, but not that low and stupid.
Maybe he was in Memphis but it got plenty of coverage here.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
That’s one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever seen done here.
You are a pig.
[Reply]

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
**Droid edit :: Tim likes talking about rapes it seems**
You think I’m a pig, but the person it happened to doesn’t.
Makes sense.
LOSER!! ::   -9
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
That info made her even more identifiable … and you are most definitely a pig.

Tim Brownson Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Yeh that’s right, I’m a pig.
You reduce my wife to tears, you attack and harangue people that have the audacity to question your motives, you try an bring legitimate businesses down (which mine is, I have no idea about the others), you edit a comment for your own gain even though the person in question is fine with it and is one of the people I am closest to on the planet.
And you intimate I like talking about rape after going through an horrific ordeal and edit to make it look like that is the case.
You’re right, I’m the pig.
LOSER!! ::   -4

Sam the Shrubbist Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 1:50 am
@Tim Brownson, Your ‘blame game’ is alarming, Tim.
“You reduce my wife to tears”
No Tim, YOU did. When are you going to fully accept your responsibility? Minimizing what you did and making excuses is NOT accepting responsibility.
Additionally, why on earth would you expose your wife to the backlash you yourself generated? That was another choice YOU made. Don’t try to blame that on anyone else.
“you attack and harangue people that have the audacity to question your motives”
When someone is deceptive, when someone ignores a litany of clear, enumerated details in favor of their own agenda, or when a troll (usually under the guise of “devil’s advocate”) attempts to distort the real conversation here, they will often get rebuked. Not just from Salty, but from the commenters confronted with such manipulation.
“you try an bring legitimate businesses down (which mine is, I have no idea about the others)”
It is rare for legitimacy to need its own introduction.
However, you did absolutely say “businesses” (plural), which means you are claiming multiple instances of the accusation you made. In that very same breath, you further said, “I have no idea about the others.” That makes perfect sense in a not really kind of not way.
“And you intimate I like talking about rape after going through an horrific ordeal and edit to make it look like that is the case.”
Actually, SD clearly indicated to you that the introduction of RAPE into the discussion was considered out of line and exploitative. You disregarded that, and proceeded to reintroduce the rape topic yet again with third party details. There was simply no need for a forced, unwelcome tour down shock value lane.
If you could cash the reality check you’ve gotten on this site, you would be a rich man.
WINNER!! ::   +12

Barbara Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
@SD,
I’ve never read anything online that has upset me as much as that unredacted comment did. The consequences of revealing that person’s identity should have been uppermost in his mind. I’m glad you removed that part of the comment. I know some people here have thought this man to be well-intentioned if unqualified. But this is so far beyond the pale, I cannot fathom what he could have been thinking when writing that comment.
As you stated, the entire point of this site is that criminals can harm the innocent. Sometimes the unthinking can do harm as well, that comment was a perfect illustration.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Regrets Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
@Barbara, except that it most likely was NOT unthinking at all but calculated and deliberate. Because as we know, the Milton-model (or is it the Meta-model, or some other model I forget)says that you can put people into a mini-trance (or something) by making an emotionally charged statement so they will then draw unconscious parallels between what they just heard and the situation at hand. So we could have (unconsciously of course)made a connection between a violent assault and someone we trust. Maybe SD himself… because who do most people trust around here? Not Tim Brownson, that’s for sure… other than his team of trolls and a few kindhearted but naive individuals.
Once you know that someone has been schooled in manipulation techniques, you can’t take anything they say at face value anymore.
It is sad, but make no mistake about it, this has been manipulation 101 from the beginning and I no longer believe this person is an ignorant bumbler falling into traps because he is too silly to know better. Even a complete idiot would not post this kind of shit in a public forum.
WINNER!! ::   +9

Lanna Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
@Barbara,
Those kind of comments are pretty typical for both emotionally damaged people and manipulative people (as @Regrets says). (Tim may be both.) That upsetting crap is why some {real} psychologists choose to get out of the crazy-people business and become {real} life coaches. (Yes, I’m directly disagreeing with @SD about life coaching being a real thing or not. Let’s see if that gets me moderated, trolls.)
Having no concept of confidentiality is what really dragged Tim into this mess. Why should he stop violating people’s confidentiality now? (“Confidentiality FTW!”)
  +3

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 9:11 am
@lanna,
“That upsetting crap is why some {real} psychologists choose to get out of the crazy-people business and become {real} life coaches.”
I did a quick search, and the only “psychologists” who enter the life coaching “profession”, enter the training of other “life coaches”. Which makes financial sense anyways, because health providers and insurance companies will not fund “life coaching sessions”. Since funding is ONLY provided for psychologists, more people can afford to see a psychologist for problems, then a “life coach” to have sunshine blown up their ass.
http://www.eapcoachtraining.com/index.shtml
Since you went to all the trouble of stating your presidential committee psychology professor’s PhD student is now a life coach, why not link to her site.
“I was introduced to the concept of life coaching by one of my mentors, a psychology professor who has served on multiple Presidential committees. One of her PhD graduates had opened a life coaching practice, which she explained as “therapy for the well.” ”
I like the way you framed your post:
my mentor (personal experience)+
“psychology professor” (authority)+
“multiple Presidential committees” (highly experienced) +
PhD graduate (qualified trainer)=
just believe me, it’s true.
How are you introduced to “life coaching” by your psychology professor, if it was a former Ph.D. student who opened up a “life coaching practice” (did you go on a field trip, or did you use her to get sunshine blown up your ass)?
Inquiring minds want to know.
  +1

Lanna Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
@Anonymous,
It was a chance meeting in my mentor’s office. The life coach had dropped in, and I was arriving for a scheduled project meeting. The life coach herself was not memorable, and I don’t remember her name. The description of life coaching, which I shared here, was memorable for me.
I’m not sure what search you did, but my Google search (using Chrome’s Incognito mode) for “PsyD life coach” produced plenty of qualified psychologists who offer life coaching services and do not teach life coaching. Like any Google search for a subject covered by SD, ignore the ads at the top (schools in this case) and right (scammers). (Google thinks I’m in Valparaiso, Indiana, BTW.)
In the Google results, I see some psychologists who were offering life coaching a decade before the Mental Health Parity Act of 1996, and the meeting I’ve described took place several years before The Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008. In that mental healthcare marketplace, where everyone’s paying largely out-of-pocket anyway, the insurance funding argument doesn’t hold water.
  +1

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@lanna,
“The description of life coaching, which I shared here, was memorable for me.”
I didn’t understand what you meant when you said:
“We talked and she said words to the effect that: “it sounds to me as if your relationship with your employers is beyond repair. You’re driving yourself crazy because you want to leave but you can’t make the move” – ie. I was suffering cognitive dissonance. Nothing earth-shattering yet.”
  -2

Lanna Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@Anonymous,
I didn’t say that. @not really said that.
  +1

Wanderlost Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
@Anonymous “Inquiring minds want to know.” No, actually, they don’t. ‘Inquiring minds’ tend to be rather good at focusing on the discussion and making pertinent remarks. It’s your garden-variety, anonymous trolling slimeball mind that tends to like to single out a target, bombard them with irrelevant questions, misattribute quotes to them and generally do any stupid, petty little thing they can think of to distract and annoy.
  +1

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
@lanna,
I know the handle it was written under, @not really, @lanna, one in the same.
The term “cognitive dissonance”, isn’t normally used by people who haven’t either studied psychology or been in therapy, especially when you consider the “simplicity” of the rest of the post(s).
The handle takes the same stance on “life coaches” as you do. I don’t believe that story created, it was written to prove how good “life coaches” are. Obviously you couldn’t state that only a psychologist should be a life coach stance, since that would have been a dead give away.
The use of quotes around pro indicates a non traditional meaning (pro being professional as well as the in context meaning of acceptance of life coaches).
“So no, I’m not unbiased, I’m very “pro” life coaches, assuming you know of a good one.”
  -3

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@wanderlost,
If you were good at focusing, you would mind your own business in something that doesn’t concern you.
If you need a “life coach” to blow sunshine up your ass, then feel free to hire one.
  -2

Wanderlost Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
@Anonymous Oh fer– THAT’S your great revelatory deduction, Genius? Probably about 90% of the thinking public knows what cognitive dissonance is.
And guess what? I’ll throw you another juicy morsel and remind you that I’VE defended life coaches too (at least before Tim Brownson got done trashing his profession’s reputation so thoroughly here.)
Now go ahead and accuse me of being yet another of @not really’s aliases.
Jeez. *eye roll*
  0

Thom Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:41 pm
@Lanna, @Wanderlost, @Anonymous, You probably have more in common over the entire blog than not. There are new blog posts in your future that you’ll all agree on. Why get pissy and drive a wedge here?
  +2

Lanna Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 7:36 pm
First @Wyrd thinks @not really is “@Tim with a different handle.”
Now @Anonymous thinks @not really is me with a different handle.
Imagining both of those were true, check out this Gollum-Smeagol exchange!
For the record, I am not @not really. I am not @Tim, either.
I think @Thom is right. We’re here to fight the scammers. I can agree to disagree on life coaching.
So, in scammer news, one of the friends I mentioned over here is all signed up for a two-day Glazer-Kennedy workshop. It’s free, if you don’t count the $97 deposit they put on your credit card to make sure you stay for the entire sales pitch, er, I mean, um, workshop. I’m employing @Slowly Waking’s recommended approach of just asking how that’s going.
  0

stoic Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@Tim Brownson,
‘As I said to Salty in the e-mail she is very plausible, and (I could get caned for this, but I’m going to say it anyway), very likable. I had no reason to suspect any of this and it saddens me.’
Ms Dunfor’s schtick is a piss-poor copy of the schtick of Frank Kern. If I watch Kern’s sales pitches on video, I can see his many NLP and influence marketing tricks, know that he is a pathological lying scammer and still finish up with the impression that he is a likeable, down-to-earth guy who would be fun to be around.
Duh. This probably says something less than flattering about my personality make-up. It saddens me but……..
If I don’t want to be shark chum for Frank Kern and his many, many deluded acolytes, I need to educate myself in the ways of sharkdom and resolve to stay out of shark-infested waters. Human sharks invest enormous effort in presenting a persona that is likeable–it is essential in salesmanship as you must know, having spent 20 years as a successful salesman yourself.
Learn how to keep your word and stay outta here, you are still presenting whingeing excuses in an attempt to fool us with your likeability—– and brutal honesty doesn’t allow for any excuses.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
@Tim Brownson ::
Judging by your actions … not your words … I’d have to imagine the following are main-stays of your “Life Coaching” “advice” ::
… make tons of excuses for your conduct when questioned.
… to get out of holes you dug … keep digging!
… when the pressure is on :: bring up totally unrelated, wildly exploitative details of your {very} personal life (a trick learned from Naomi Donefor no doubt).
Honestly … I saw your comment before the ** Droid edit ** via email :: and I was literally offended … WTF does a sexual assault have to do with you conducting yourself in a horrendously unprofessional fashion on a fake robot blog???
Tim :: you are not anywhere near the public menace of the major frauds targeted here :: because you are {clearly} an idiot at the interwebz & couldn’t pull that kind of scam off if you tried. Thus, if you’d have just stayed quiet … your online reputation would have remained unchallenged.
However :: @Tim Brownson :: YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS “COACHING” PEOPLE ON HOW THEY SHOULD RUN THEIR LIVES!!!
I have no doubt that with your NLP & Hypnosis tricks you can make people feel good about the “Coaching” session at least long enough to foot the bill … {like a crack dealer}
But after this little display here … and your never-ending excuses & selective honesty … I wouldn’t recommend ANYONE take your advice on how to run their life.
I can only hope that all those who are considering hiring you come here & read this first.
Then, after seeing this exchange, anyone who wants to financially support you for your dubious telephone “Life Coaching” clearly deserves what they get (and evaluates purchases way different from how @Doctor Mario does it).
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Regrets Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
@Tim Brownson, thanks for continuing to post. You are reminding me of the crappy NLP tactics I had forgotten that I once tried to learn. If I knew where my crappy NLP books were, I could probably look them up and cross reference them all by page number and so on, but alas.
Here’s the thing Tim. You and your team need to understand that those tactics don’t work here and your mission was a failed one at the get-go. You are trying to cast a light on this site as a hotbed of sadistic bullies and cult members enamored of a salty robot cult leader. Nice try! Some of us have already been through this manipulative-reversal shit and have learned the lesson all too well.
Your team (who you emphatically instructed instructed NOT to come here and defend you on your very own blog–
Quote: “Firstly, I am not looking for support and don’t want anybody posting there on my behalf. Seriously, don’t.”
What is that, NLP 101-A?)
seems to think that casting SD and his “followers” as evil bullies who target innocent “great guys” will somehow discredit his site because it is gaining too much power in your fake blogging world. Good luck with that one.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 8:52 pm
@Regrets,
Before NLP it was done, far more effectively I might add, by Brer Rabbit. “Please, Brer Fox, don’t throw me in the briar patch! Seriously, don’t.”
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
@Tim Brownson,
I gave you a thumbs up here because I really enjoy watching you dig a hole while dancing the side-step. (Two thumbs down for childhood rape.)
Now, {fake psychologist} Tim Brownson, I know you don’t like it when I bring up what I’ve learned from {real} psychologists, and I’m fully expecting another response of, “So profound. You slayed me with your amazing logic and I feel so foolish now.” However, you’ve brought to mind something a {real} psychology professor told us in one of the {real} psychology classes I took:
“How do you know you have a drinking problem? When it becomes a problem – when it interferes with your personal or professional life.”
So, {fake psychologist} Tim Brownson, you say you “had a glass of wine, or maybe two”? (Isn’t being unsure of how many drinks you had a sign of a problem? Come to think of it, isn’t joking about having a drinking problem – “I should be flogged!” – a sign of a drinking problem?)
You came here after drinking and planted the seeds for what seems to me to be a pretty big interference in your professional life. Do you think perhaps you have a problem? I recommend you seek counseling from a {real} psychologist in case you do.
(I can’t get over the fact that you posted as Bunny Badger! What would Freud say about that?!)
Now, on to your response about not taking a sales job. I can identify with, “I love what I do and I don’t care about the money.” However, since when are HR departments looking at medical records when hiring salespeople? Why don’t you take an outside sales job where you can work your own hours, around your medical issues? Why don’t you move back to Sheffield and let the NHS take care of you? After all, you don’t have to stay in Florida.
  +3
[Reply]

Regrets Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
@Lanna, except maybe he wasn’t really drinking wine at all… maybe he just said he was, pulling out another little tool from his toolbelt of lame deceptive techniques.
He does, after all, have a chronic illness and requires strong medication to get him through a long day. Why would he add alcohol to the mix? It doesn’t make sense. But then, nothing he says really does. That reminds me, isn’t confusion another one of those Meta-Milton-Instant-Hypnosis-Neurolinguistic models? Sigh.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:45 pm
@Regrets,
I considered that. If he was drinking wine Thursday night, it would’ve been out of his system by the time he was “dosed up to the gills on hydrocortisone” on Friday. I checked over on NIH.gov’s MedlinePlus and drinking is only contraindicated for oral hydrocortisone users with a history of ulcers.
To quote the man himself, “I’d rather be a bit gullible” than call bullshit on the personal-wine-buzz card he just played. Why? If I call bullshit on that, it’s only a hop, skip and a jump to call bullshit on the personal-chronic-illness card, spouse-chronic-illness card, family-medical-emergency card and childhood-rape card he’s also put on the table.
Please, let me believe Tim is merely a closet alcoholic; don’t make me think he’s the kind of douchebag who would lie about rape to get sympathy from an online forum of anonymous strangers.
I don’t know about confusion as an MMIHN model. They never covered MMIHN in the {real} psychology program I completed. Of course, we studied the behaviorist psychology that “horrified” David Rock. A Tim-recommended author, David, if you recall, holds a DProf in the Neuroscience of Leadership from Middlesex University’s choose-your-own-adventure program (props to @Barbara for that term) and offers the “only training in this country that has blown [Tim] away.”
However, I have also spent a little time in sales, where I learned to “baffle ‘em with bullshit.” I think that’s a pretty accurate model for the 52-card-pickup game Tim’s dealing from the irrelevant-sympathy-card deck.
  +4
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 12:58 am
@Lanna,
It seems that Tim is so gullible that he is easily blown away by all kinds of glib gobshite.
Must be that Meta-Milton-Instant-Hypnosis-Neurolinguistic-Confusion-Technique getting its own back on a less-than- scrupulous practitioner.
“A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.”
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
@stoic,
My guess is that TB is both victim and victimizer.
(Note that I’m not a psychologist, which means I’m just as qualified as a life coach to have opinions about people.)
NLP teaches that confusion is the sign that a person has learned something new. TB’s posts here are confused, because he is confused. He’s confused because he’s learned that life coaching is crap and he can’t see any way to continue practicing it while being true to his core beliefs.
Just Jake
Certified Con-Founder of NLP
(per Richard Bandler, who certifies everybody he meets as a Con-Founder of NLP)
WINNER!! ::   +7

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
@anonymous,
Core beliefs???
You think he has any apart from: Anything goes that benefits Tim?
He sure hasn’t displayed any consistent value system.
  +3

Wanderlost Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 7:41 am
@Tim Brownson, I don’t even want to THINK about the redacted part of your extended self-justification here (fortunately the original was gone by the time I saw it) so I’ll just address the first instance of misdirection I noticed:
“I did suspect something because so many people were anonymous, so I posted anonymously. Not under 13 different aliases as some seem to think, in fact I can only remember using two (bunny badger & I’m Perry Belcher), but it may have been 3 or even 4, but certainly no more.”
Nowhere does Salty say you used 13 different aliases. You posted 13 TIMES before you ‘came out’ under your own name. The very clear implication, however, to anyone who is unwary and/or doesn’t read very carefully, is that Salty has just LIED about the number of your aliases in order to make you look bad (or worse, anyway, than you’ve already made yourself look.)
Now what does this tactic remind me of… Oh, yes, a certain lady blogger who made a carefully weasel-worded claim that Salty- and possibly Dave Navarro’s family- had sent her death threats. (Now that- I’m sure- the very serious ramifications of lying about such claims has been brought home to her she’s of course modified that to the almost impossible to disprove claim that one of US threatened her).
I don’t have a strong enough stomach to comb through your whole long sorry litany to find all the other weaselly inferences and innuendos, so I’ll leave it at that.
If I were into changing my moniker to suit my mood I’d post this under “Initially Sympathetic, Now Thoroughly Disgusted”.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 17 September 2011 at 3:47 pm

Foolness said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
After reading some of these posts and assuming the life coach defenders are sincere, where do y’all think one can find a free (as in beer) anti-life coaching coach?
Not the confused about confidentiality kind or the emotion-less droid kind or the professional psychologist that no one seems willing to trust and pay for but the ones with a full list of “this is why NLP doesn’t work and why you should not adopt section 14 of the bullshit sub-category of the morality boosting manipulation of the 9th edition of Advanced Car Salesmanship Applied to Geo-Needy Legalized Serial Killing of the Mental Mind.”
…cause it seems that’s the missing link between the people who don’t get why helpful liars are bad and the people who were burned by it and warning others about it.
The way I read the comments (outside of Tim) is that people are taking responsibility for their life and how they do this is by hiring life coaches. Why they do this often starts as a less imposing alternative to professional counselling but why they praise it and why they prefer life coaches is because life coaches often end up being great personal brainstorm companions which helps them feel happy moving towards a mindset.
Something that I would assume friends and professionals are not as interested in when approaching their issues especially as it’s hard for the desperate consumer to have their magic bullet seeking mindset be reframed without often receiving the harsh and bad tasting medicine of “there are no magic bullets”. Something seekers of life coaches would probably want told to them in a more easing manner then a quick hard and coldless sentence.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Phil Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
@Foolness,
“it’s hard for the desperate consumer to have their magic bullet seeking mindset be reframe”
That is exactly why the very LAST thing anyone who is desperate needs is advice and guidance NOT provided by a licensed professional, solidly anchored in human psychology!
Desperate (definition):
Feeling, showing, or involving a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad as to be impossible to deal with.
Desperation (definition):
A state of despair, typically one that results in rash or extreme behavior.
“I would assume friends and professionals are not as interested in when approaching their issues”
You just lumped “friends” and trained “professionals” together? Seriously? And “friends” are “not as interested?” And “Professionals” are “not as interested?” What? Was that supposed to be a joke of some kind?
Professionals are even MORE interested than “hey dude, I’m a life coach!” Professionals make a very serious commitment by getting lengthy, real education, maintaining continuing education requirements, qualifying for and getting licensure, and placing themselves under the supervision of certification boards and the LAW.
“seekers of life coaches would probably want told to them in a more easing manner”
“More easing manner?” Because self-appointed “life coaches” are more qualified at “easing manners” than trained professionals? You can bet your “click here to paypal me” that they are NOT. Unless a sales pitch is what you constitute to be an “easing manner.”
How utterly ridiculous.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
@Phil,
It may be the last thing but the point is delivery of message is crucial. Not so much when you get burned or chance upon Salty’s post and accept them; but when you don’t, and you actually received positive improvements from a life coach or a friend who recommends a life coach insisting that it help them.
Even using my failure of communicating in my first post as an analogy, I failed to communicate my intentions and I ended up getting downvoted and my post probably being interpreted as a support for life coaching when it’s the complete opposite. The result? You ended up steering it places where it doesn’t even relate to and replying to your points…guess what? Potential for further confusion.
Example: The point I was making…
If you’re burned and you listened then it’s too late. You can warn others but you can’t ease others who are just heading towards the process.
It’s not so much the justification of the act but context of the need.
I didn’t lump friends and professionals in the same sentence to say they are the same people.
I lump them in the sense that brainstorming isn’t life coaching or even the way you play the dictionary game of desperation.
True desperation in the dictionary term doesn’t apply here because you have to have some money or utility to the scammers for them to take advantage of. Life coaching isn’t just pandering to desperate people, it magnetizes where desperate people not only put their money in but put their hopes in order for the scam to run it’s course.
In that sense, a sales pitch is what makes it easier for people to be eased. Not sales pitch as in lies but using what works in a sales pitch to make people understand your point through a perspective where they will understand and admit why life coaching was flawed. Basically, normal human communication.
If a person has found out about how fake NLP is and another person who’s on the fence about NLP knows this person, the first person has a better way of convincing the 2nd person than a random 3rd person who simply says “it doesn’t all work” because he can specify what doesn’t work in each concept of NLP.
It’s ridiculous but it’s also reality. If a sales pitch is what draws people in the first place, it’s also a sales pitch that can draw them out excepting when it’s too late or it’s damning evidence like things Salty posts.
Again, I’m using our conversation as an analogy. Not as a justification for anything. Not even to imply “you’re dumb cause you can’t get the directness of my post” but simply to show how context and communication is important. I failed to utilize the language of the culture of commentors here for example and guess what I got?
Downvotes.
Weird premises like:
“You just lumped “friends” and trained “professionals” together”
…and just a plain strawman that I have no idea how anyone could get from my post:
“Because self-appointed “life coaches” are more qualified at “easing manners” than trained professionals? You can bet your “click here to paypal me” that they are NOT. Unless a sales pitch is what you constitute to be an “easing manner.”
You even have Wanderlost turning this into a geological comment.
…I admit I’m poor at communicating often times but you have to stretch it to some far off places to connect my words with “click here to paypal me”.
That’s not where the life coaching defenders who have posted here are “clicking” and “feeling” like their life coaches are helping them.
The part where it’s clicking to them are things like being ignorant of NLP tactics (if they truly work), post-sales pitches and presentations (after you payed me, instead of giving me life coaching advises – you gave me a sentence that helped me brainstorm and after months of thinking about it, I realized you help me in my life that my friends nor professionals would give me of) and finally the connection of talking with someone that is neither about a person’s human flaws/psychology but simply a life coach being able (in the words of one defender) “ask her questions related to her problem that she nor her friend wouldn’t think of.” (said problem may not even be desperation at all)
tl;dr version: You can’t assume just because people defend and hire life coaches that what they need is life coaching or human psychology education. It’s very easy to treat brainstorming sessions as life coaching sessions and most of the defenders are referring to that benefit of a personal brainstorming companion as to why they stick up for their life coaches regardless of the credibility of the coach. Most of that scenario also comes up because friends don’t necessarily know or care about your problem. A trained professional similarly would care more about getting you past the state of stress/disorders/etc then playing “guess how I will help give you ideas to brainstorm that you will later credit me for.”
  +1
[Reply]

Phil Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
@Foolness,
That was an excellent comment. I agree with your observations about the perceptions “coachees” have which make them quite susceptible.
Thanks also for your clarification of the intent of your initial comment. Your own opinion was not evident then, and it is important context on a blog such as this.
I think the “conversational comfort” aspect (or ease) is a significant factor, and what better way to establish a financially profitable co-dependent arrangement than to bind someone’s emotions to a transactional arrangement?
Your comment has also opened my eyes to something else. Until now, I mainly considered the untrained coaching “gold rush” as more or less just another sleazy “make money” free for all.
It is worse than that. It can easily enable society’s worst to create fake exploitative relationships that are far deeper than that of one person standing in front of a sales counter with an obvious salesperson on the other side.
Left unchecked, sometime in the future, the horror stories may begin to sound like those of the worst boiler rooms today, with a wave of maxed out credit cards and asset handovers to “good friends.”
This is troubling, and the growing dearth of “coaching mills” should concern everyone.
  +1
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 1:53 am
@Phil,
For some grim reality–the rules of the marketplace will still apply to the coaching mills, however numerous.
‘Left unchecked’—this particular scamming marketplace has a tendency to be a shark-pool and of the 98% of coaches who will never amount to any effective force in their habitat, many will be devoured by cannier sharks or disappear up their own arses.
The few who make it ‘big’ will also, over time, identify themselves as either relatively benign or malign to an observant critic.
Not much comfort for anyone already scammed, sure, but it was ever thus, and educating us potential ‘coachees’ to be critical is worthwhile.
The rules of the marketplace do have a sorting and sifting function, so not all bad. (ie, no pending apocalypse of legions of deadly, mercenary ‘lifecoaches’ abroad in the world, at least no more than there have ever been of deadly, mercenary, interfering busybodies who assume they know it all, for everyone else.)
  +2
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 3:18 am
@Phil,
To be fair though, emotional branding is not something limited to the scammers.
Here’s a link to the Persuaders if you are unfamiliar with the vid: (There’s a wikipedia article for emotional branding but it doesn’t have the same impact)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/
  -1
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@Foolness, “Something seekers of life coaches would probably want told to them in a more easing manner then a quick hard and coldless sentence.”
I’m sorry, but what on earth does this mean? Is someone outsourcing Droid commenting to Philippines or something?
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
@Wanderlost,
It means seekers of “life coaches” need sunshine blown up their asses. They can’t handle the truth without the sunshine.
You can’t even comprehend something in context, even if it was written unusually?
  +1
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
That’s one way to put it but I think sunshine blown up their asses is better used for satire not for explaining posts.
Let’s use one of the life coach defenders here for example:
“But I’d been laying plans for 18 months to start my own business – I just couldn’t find a way to make the transition, especially since I had a mortgage and two young kids to support. And it was making me ill – my relationship with my employers was getting worse and worse – I think I would have become depressed (if I wasn’t already).”
Now I don’t know if the person saying this is an obvious troll or not but let’s assume the words are from a sincere person.
“I couldn’t find a way to make the transition” -> “hired life coach” -> Why: (their words) “would have become depressed” (if they weren’t already) – Actual reason: wanted to help them brainstorm a mindset to give them the guts to start a business (not psychology nor life related, depression just a cover not for a deeper issue but for an entirely different subject that they couldn’t personally pin down)
Doesn’t read like a person avoiding responsibilities. Sounds like a person who was looking for a personal brainstorming companion in order to better take responsibility.
What this person needed wasn’t another sunshine blown up their ass. That would just confuse them. What they needed was an eclipse to slowly darken their sunshine but help them take responsibility rather than phrases sounding like Doomsayers because the sentences are not addressing what they are hinting and focusing on them saying they received some benefits from life coaching.
  0
[Reply]

Grover Lembeck Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
@Foolness,
In all seriousness, you should get a friend to proofread your posts- one who has a solid command of written english. I can’t really figure you out. Try shorter sentences, to start with.
In other words, you’re pretty incoherent. What you actually have to say doesn’t matter, since we don’t have a clue what that is.
At least I don’t. Maybe someone can translate for me.
  +5
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 2:15 am
You’ll have to have others translate for you. I wouldn’t say I’ve heard it all but throughout my life, I’ve almost heard it all.
Non-native English speaker, incoherent, write shorter, read it loud, proofread by myself, proofread by others until they get tired… adjusted my style countless times – still a poor communicator.
Worse, I tend to generate a reply that says exactly that but doesn’t hint at what specific aspect is incoherent so it’s a vicious pattern. At least, I’ve managed to explain my viewpoints to Phil. You could try asking him.
(Believe me, I don’t mean this with any vitriole. It’s rarely the case that someone will say “Thanks for trying your best to make your points clearer.”)
  +1

not really Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 7:25 am
@Foolness,
You’re quoting my posts, so I’ll reply. I see your point (I think) but:
“Doesn’t read like a person avoiding responsibilities”
No, I wasn’t ! But:
“Sounds like a person who was looking for a personal brainstorming companion in order to better take responsibility”
Not really. I didn’t ask for brainstorming, and that’s not what I got. We talked for about half an hour, by which point the coach had my position clear in her mind. She verified this with me – ie. that I wanted to quit my job but didn’t feel able – and established some criteria which WOULD allow me to feel able.
Her insight was that the thing that was messing me up was the conflict between what I wanted to do and what I felt able to do, and she gave me a tool to get from A to B – the “magic feather” of setting up a home office even though at that point I had no pragmatic need for it. I had been subconsciously holding myself back from my goals because of rational concerns, and she helped me get past that.
She phrased the suggestion as a question because good life coaches don’t tell people what to do, they just help them get “un-stuck”.
So it wasn’t a brainstorming session, it was very focused – ask questions, know how to help, offer 3 separate suggestions about how to move forward (all of which I acted on) – result, one very happy customer. No-one blew any sunshine up anything. Where’s the problem ?
If I’d had a therapist recommended I might well have tried that instead, and maybe got the same results in maybe the same time, but I believe a therapist would have come to the problem with a vastly different attitude and approach, and probably not given the same solution – and anyway, it wasn’t an issue that I thought (think) would be suitable to go to a therapist for.
Sure, in theory a friend or relation might have given me the same advice, but that hadn’t happened at that point, and I don’t believe it ever would.
This is all going no-where, I won’t persuade anyone here, but like I said – good coaches have their place.
  +2
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
New Note 7
@not really,
>>>I didn’t ask for brainstorming
That was what I was implying with my post, yes.
>>>She phrased the suggestion as a question because good >>>life coaches don’t tell people what to do, they just >>>help them get “un-stuck”.
Which is what brainstorming sessions are.
The entire idea of getting you unstuck is not based on what good life coaches do. The business of life coaching is based on counselling (asking questions) with the precise intent to get you unstuck.
Part if not 3/4s of that has to involve making you tell them more about yourself than you normally would.
It’s kind of like how psychics work but with this, they are not claiming they are doing anything supernatural. They are just maximizing the illusion of attentiveness and hoping to get a hot read on which generic advice will make you feel “unstuck”.
The good life coaches are probably better not because they don’t tell people what to do but because they would give suggestions in such a way that you’re left with the final words sounding more profound than the rest of the time where you were mostly being convinced to tell them more about yourself due to their ability to seemingly ask more comfortable questions than people you know normally would.
They are sometimes so good at it that even if you dislike the coaching, they will leave you with the types of words that they know people seeking life coaches would think about such as the differences between things “you want to do” and what of things “you feel you are able to do”.
>>>So it wasn’t a brainstorming session, it was very >>>focused
I think that also constitutes as brainstorming – where the brainstorming comes not from throwing out random thoughts but stating more situations that a life coach could pick and choose towards linking to their generic advice that they then will slowly make vague until the last words of the sentences you’re getting are somehow now surprisingly connecting and relating to one of your problems.
Let’s say I’m wrong though and it’s not brainstorming. Would you at least admit that the very criteria the coach established upon you such as “the conflict between what I wanted to do and what I felt able to do” – are things that you may ask yourself if you were simply brainstorming? Things that anyone can ask you even if you told them nothing about yourself?
>>>Ask questions, know how to help, offer 3 separate >>>suggestions about how to move forward (all of which I >>>acted on) – result, one very happy customer. No-one >>>blew any sunshine up anything. Where’s the problem?
Well take things like the comments here. You have a life coach that doesn’t even know how professional confidentiality should work.
Take some of the other “life coaching-like” incidents in Salty’s other posts. Things that caused people to die, things that caused people to lose money, things that don’t help.
If life coaching was simply a method that helped, then there’s no problem. What if life coaching is a method that hurts? Not only that, what if life coaching is a method that hurts more than it helps? Finally, what if there’s no standards by which to know how a life coach can hurt someone and upon further investigations of life coaches, the examples start stacking up against them?
>>>If I’d had a therapist recommended I might well have >>>tried that instead, and maybe got the same results in >>>maybe the same time, but I believe a therapist would >>>have come to the problem with a vastly different >>>attitude and approach, and probably not given the >>>same solution”
…which is why communication and credibility is important.
A mediocre therapist can make you believe the wrong things about therapists.
A bad life coach can make you believe the good things about life coaching.
>>>Sure, in theory a friend or relation might have given >>>me the same advice, but that hadn’t happened at that >>>point, and I don’t believe it ever would.”
I actually disagree with you. There’s no theory that says a friend or relation may have given you the same advice. (at least no good ones)
The odds of that happening are the same odds that you would find out about salty’s blog, read it and learn from it before being exposed to scams of some kind.
>>>Good coaches have their place.
You’re right but when bad coaches invade their place, it’s to their benefit to pretend to be good coaches too. That doesn’t just apply to a coaching profession who all fall under the same name. Sometimes to bypass something, you have to rename it.
  -3

Lanna Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 11:53 pm
@Foolness,
For the love of Alex Faickney Osborn, please go over to Wikipedia and learn what brainstorming is! One human being asking another human being a question does not constitute brainstorming.
  0

not really Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 6:36 am
@Foolness,
Ignoring the “what is brainstorming” non-issue:
“Would you at least admit that the very criteria the coach established upon you such as “the conflict between what I wanted to do and what I felt able to do” – are things that you may ask yourself if you were simply brainstorming?”
Sure. As I said originally, this was no great revelation and I knew it already. But I also knew a whole list of other problems too. The coaches’ main input was to process the whole range of different things I described and
1 – (Correctly) identify this particular one as my KEY problem at that time
2 – Offer exactly the right suggestions to allow me to fix it
Otherwise you prefer the idea of therapists rather than coaches. Fine.
“what if life coaching is a method that hurts more than it helps?”
Then I don’t think people would use them, let alone recommend them.
  -2

Kelly Reply:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
@Wanderlost, At least it would really emphasize how lame the “pro douchebag” argument is! :)
  +1
[Reply]
# 18 September 2011 at 12:01 pm

Alex said:
“Life coaching” without any licensing or professional oversight at all, would more accurately fall under a category similar to “hot chat.” To paraphrase Forrest Gump, “You never know what you’re gonna get.”
  +3
[Reply]
# 18 September 2011 at 5:29 pm

Foolness said:
“For the love of Alex Faickney Osborn, please go over to Wikipedia and learn what brainstorming is! One human being asking another human being a question does not constitute brainstorming.”
Never saw the day that someone will use Wikipedia to define even something as obvious as brainstorming.
I suggest you follow your advice. Not to sound mean but although your reframed understanding of my post can be valid (indeed it is true that one human being asking another human being a question does not ALWAYS constitue brainstorming) that doesn’t mean questions especially questions phrased in a certain way can’t be constituted as brainstorming. The only time it can is if you are really trying to be semantical about the actual process of brainstorming.
  -1
[Reply]
# 20 September 2011 at 9:27 am

Foolness said:
@not really
Reply accepted. I had no real arguments with your last post except this:
“Ignoring the “what is brainstorming” non-issue:”
The crux of understanding my post requires that you consider brainstorming an issue. It may not be a definition you may accept but it is clearly an issue if not one of the major issues my post brought up.
You wouldn’t be able to create a proper outline of my post, no matter how succinct, without accepting it as an issue unless you misunderstood my post.
I also have a problem with this statement:
“Otherwise you prefer the idea of therapists rather than coaches. Fine.”
Preference has nothing to do with it. I’m sincerely disappointed in myself that I couldn’t make it clear in my post and I don’t know how to explain it any more clearer but preference has nothing to do with it.
“Then I don’t think people would use them, let alone recommend them.”
Just some food for thought:
Many people hire fake psychics.
Many people buy self-help books.
Many people didn’t know about the things Salty posted until Salty posted them.
Even right now, how many people in the world do you think know of James Arthur Ray?
In the words of P.T. Barnum “we’ve got something for everyone”.
  -1
[Reply]

not really Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Foolness,
“Reply accepted”
Hm, this is obviously some advanced use of the word “accepted” I wasn’t previously aware of.
I’m new to all this but I have a feeling you are a troll. Have fun.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
@not really,
Well like I previously alluded, I’m a poor communicator but could you shed some details on why I might be a troll? Oh and I didn’t downvote your reply.
Reply accepted was just a polite way of saying I read your words and I have nothing to add. If you want some clarification on why I might not be trolling and why I have nothing to add, it’s because even in your summation, you merely backed up some reasons why people may want to brainstorm. I am simply conforming to how some people here are saying I should be succinct.
In my opinion, you can’t be anymore succinct than:
1 – (Correctly) identify this particular one as my KEY problem at that time
2 – Offer exactly the right suggestions to allow me to fix it
^The above simply screams “one of the key benefits to brainstorming”. If you ever ask people why they might consider brainstorming upon something… (even casual people who simply inter-change thinking with brainstorming to sound more fancy) those two points have a high chance of coming up.
  -1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@Foolness ::
Actually @not_really is the troll also known as @also_waiting :: so you having a debate with her about who is or isn’t the troll won’t be helping anything.
[Reply]

not really / also waiting Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD,
Yes, they’re both me. No, I’m not a troll. And neither it seems is @Foolness, based on his (?) post in the other thread – despite appearances. “Reply accepted” as in “Challenge accepted”… or something.
I’m curious, how did you figure out I was female ?
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
@not really / @also waiting ::
You don’t have to know you’re a troll to be a troll … troll.

not really / also waiting Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
So why am I a troll, then ?
Everything @Foolness said applies to me too except english is my first language. I watch the RSS feed and reply to things, just like everyone here. I’m not convinced by everything I read, but I do admit some posters like @slowly waking post some thought-provoking stuff, and I’ve said so.
I’m being honest, I’m being straightforward but you say I’m a troll. Why ?
LOSER!! ::   -8

Joe Reply:
September 20th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
@not really / also waiting,
“Yes, they’re both me.”
“I’m being honest, I’m being straightforward…”
Honest? Straightforward? I don’t believe we’ve met that one of your personalities yet. Send it over when it gets out of choir practice.
WINNER!! ::   +8

not really / also waiting Reply:
September 21st, 2011 at 3:18 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Joe,
Yes, I used two names when posting. My bad.
I regret it now, because it allows you to insinuate that nothing I say can be trusted. But people can read my posts and decide for themselves whether they feel truthful.
LOSER!! ::   -7
# 20 September 2011 at 9:35 am

Foolness said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Ben
This isn’t so much a disagreement to you, and if Salty did verify @not_really as a troll then that’s that, but for some reason there seems to be something off with your analysis that just keep drawing me back to rereading your comment. This post of mine is just a list of what sounds wrong to me.
Now I’m not claiming this is the more accurate representation but “not really” does have a point which is you can’t infer anything about someone based on a few blogging comments. Especially vague posts. Troll or not, the reason why I quoted her/him/it was because it sounds credible enough to apply to a normal person.
First off:
Just look at the scenario you described:
“So the big “aha” moment was taking a room you already knew you had, and using if for a pretend office for a non-existent business that fed your need for escapism?”
I think it’s more likely to be anxiety about starting a business than using it as an escaping tool.
Even if there’s a hint to escapism there, it must be closer to stress release. It seems such a high risk tactic for a life coach to use a place of work as a room for escape. If the client fails, they would have no fallback unlike an anxiety-relieving room. If the client succeeds, it sounds good and the client feels good. If the client fails, then you can fall back on things like “where do you think you failed?” – a route that can easily lead for the next or the next or the next try in “nudging” the client to succeed in their business (as long as the client can continue to pay) …and also a route that has been proven successful for entrepreneurs in that failure made them learn what not to do next time as long as they had the funds.
It’s one thing if they have control of a situation like a church-like group environment but to throw that client in like that, it just reads like a life coach asking for a career suicide.
“Then, what do you do when you need to “figure out” the massive dilemma of where to put your pretend business papers? Do you again call your so-called coach and brainstorm until you get to the “aha moment” of buying a filing cabinet? Sounds like the land of co-dependency.”
To be fair, people are co-dependent on many things. If you don’t know how to fix the plumbing, you hire a plumber.
I think the greater “red alert” here is that the troll can lay out a business plan so at the very least the scenario she’s presenting is a pure anxiety based scenario that only seems undoable because of her anxiety and busy life.
In the details she presented, had she failed or lacked the blueprint, the life coach could still have convinced her to follow the same route and the life coach would definitely have a follow-up words regardless if he or she succeeded. Why? Because she just explained she didn’t need a life coach to handle the specifics of her business. The filing cabinet thing? It’s unlikely for her to ask that of the life coach because even if she did, a life coach must have at least known that if they kept answering these questions, they would eventually be put in a tough situation like the manner Tim fell into in these comments. It’s just a situation that both the life coach and the client would avoid. They would more likely wait for the initial outcome of the business. (in between spurts of the life coach checking up on the client for touchy feely raising updates)
“Wow. You could have gotten more useful and detailed advice from an interior decorator, probably cheaper.”
Maybe in the troll’s scenario, they did? It’s more likely for people who are pleased with life coaches to hire other people. Even a life coach would know that’s their lifeline. If the client asks something they don’t know, the life coach would steer the client towards a generic job for a task.
“You were also USING and taking advantage of your employers, clearly. You “didn’t care” what your “relationship” was because you were only interested in getting money out of them.
THAT is probably the biggest reason you had a POOR relationship with your employers in the first place. You were using them, and you bristled when they weren’t happy you weren’t doing what you were paid to do.”
To be fair in this scenario, a major reason for why people generally try to avoid professionals especially therapist advise (whatever a therapist really means here) are sentences like this so I don’t think the sentence is helpful at all. Throw this back at a life coach to see how they react? Great. If they’re really good, they would have an answer to this. To clients seeking life coaches? These kinds of words would push them further into a life coach.
Even if this is correct, remember, you’re saying this based on a scenario where you’re replying to a bunch of blog comments. If a legit life coach supporter would have read this, they would side more with the troll because the evidence indeed is pointing towards you making such a statement without much proof even for blog comments. It’s not like Tim who kept digging himself into a ditch. The troll created a vague enough scenario where you can’t tell whether they were taking advantage of anyone especially since most office lifestyle are stressful and employee to employee disagreements are a common thing.
Finally:
“3. So-called coach says, “what if you converted your nursery into an “office?”
4. Office made you “FEEL” as though you had left job and started “new future.””
This is inaccurate to the scenario presented. The troll mentioned something about having idly talked about it so at the very least, the scenario didn’t say the client was suggestible or enthusiastic about the life coaching advice.
For this very reason, point #4 wouldn’t feel anything at all at the beginning except maybe a “here goes nothing since I don’t know any better might as well see if the life coach is correct” push.
It’s more likely that only after the business “worked in hindsight” that the advice sounded like a magic feather. At least, to my knowledge, this scenario matches closer to anecdotes I’ve read of life coaching.
(5. “No longer cared what relationship with employers was like – the worst they could do was fire you.”)
^and this I feel is the weakest part of your post because on one hand you’re kind of implying that the troll was already a bad person but in this point 5, you’re saying the troll “no longer” – as in only after they had a life coaching session that they became a jerk or at least a narcissist. You can’t eat your pie and have it too. Either they no longer cared long before they found their life coach (which would contradict the anecdote of: So I went to my coach asking for ways to handle my relationship with my employers better, to make the situation more bearable.) or they’ve only become a narcissist after the life coaching session happened (which could still simply be attributed to them preparing themselves for the transition to a business and most people would focus their passion towards a business more than their jobs.)
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Ben Reply:
September 21st, 2011 at 7:56 pm
@Foolness,
SD made it clear that this commenter was a troll, supported by his behind the scenes ability to observe what takes place here.
You said:
“^and this I feel is the weakest part of your post because on one hand you’re kind of implying that the troll was already a bad person but in this point 5, you’re saying the troll “no longer””
Wrong. Those are NOT my words.
I simply quoted the commenter’s OWN words at that point: “no longer.”
The commenter previously had claimed her employers were “making her sick.”
I’d contend that her saying her employers were “making her sick” was only coverup for her own failure to perform on her job (she admitted she had been planning to start a business for 18 months, so it’s reasonable to assess that her job did NOT receive her full focus during that time and certainly for some time leading up to the 18 months).
Furthermore, the “no longer” statement SHE later made was her own retroactive self-justification for not being fully committed to her employer *THE ENTIRE TIME.* Nothing “changed” as you implied. At that point, she made a blanket excuse for past AND present behavior. One dismissive sweep.
You said:
“they would side more with the troll because the evidence indeed is pointing towards you making such a statement without much proof even for blog comments”
“the evidence indeed is”
“without much proof”
That represents YOUR opinion.
Have you read the comments she has left under her different nicknames? I have. She left many, and combined, they DO tell a story.
The bottom line:
** I stand by what I said in it’s entirety. **
If by chance you actually have any issue with her harping on the “merits” of “life coaching,” then feel free to address her directly, and give your own specific, compelling reasons why you disagree.
In your comment, and previously, you have used the phrase, “to be fair” when giving what appeared on the surface to be “constructive” criticism of those criticizing “life coaches.” Have you ever previously used “to be fair” here, in the opposite situation, when responding to criticisms made by defenders of “life coaches?” Do you think those defenders would offer any substantive “to be fair” asides in their attempts to promote such “coaching?”
When you use the word “troll,” are you, yourself, intentionally using it as a negative term, or are you using it only as a naming convention in order to interact with others who use the term?
How about clearly stating your specific view about “life coaching.” Support, don’t support, conditional support, etc.
If you are against, state what you would say to someone who might be considering it.
  +5
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 22nd, 2011 at 8:08 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Ben,
“SD made it clear that this commenter was a troll, supported by his behind the scenes ability to observe what takes place here.”
Yes, this is why I said, “Troll or not, the reason why I quoted her/him/it was because it sounds credible enough to apply to a normal person.”
“Wrong. Those are NOT my words.
I simply quoted the commenter’s OWN words at that point: “no longer.”
The commenter previously had claimed her employers were “making her sick.””
You would only be quoting if you had not put is as part of the list.
My reply was based on your entire list. I apologize if I made it seem like the reply underneath that post was solely homing in on that specific entry. I just felt like copy pasting the entire list would be too redundant as I find nothing wrong with numbers 1 and 2. I also didn’t lump 3,4,5 because as you read, I felt the transition to point 5 was the weakest.
“I’d contend that her saying her employers were “making her sick” was only coverup for her own failure to perform on her job (she admitted she had been planning to start a business for 18 months, so it’s reasonable to assess that her job did NOT receive her full focus during that time and certainly for some time leading up to the 18 months).”
Yes, yes and I’m saying it’s off because it does not take into account that in most scenarios people are not exactly happy with their jobs. Some even doing it for the salary. It also contradicts the scenario of why they sought a life coach for that specific reason. (as the scenario mentioned)
Think of it like this, if you were covering up for your own failure – why would you seek a life coach specifically to fix your relationship with your employees? It doesn’t appear to correlate.
“Furthermore, the “no longer” statement SHE later made was her own retroactive self-justification for not being fully committed to her employer *THE ENTIRE TIME.* Nothing “changed” as you implied. At that point, she made a blanket excuse for past AND present behavior. One dismissive sweep.”
Yes, you nearly got it right but then again see how your last few sentences contradict?
Nothing changed and yet the present behaviour allowed her to set up a business in the future?
Nothing changed and yet they themselves would retroactively self-justify it?
Most importantly, nothing changed and yet the scenario still said the life coach had to be the one to nudge the client into thinking it was too late to fix things?
It just doesn’t create a believable scenario especially since the client never brought up that they were fully committed to their jobs. One may even think it would be difficult to commit to a job where you are having relationship problems with your fellow employees.
“That represents YOUR opinion.”
Yes, yes. Which is why I said:
“Now I’m not claiming this is the more accurate representation.”
The idea is that my post is to share my opinion with what’s off with your conclusion of the scenario though I do not disagree with the spirit of your post nor do I totally disagree with the entirety of your post.
“Have you read the comments she has left under her different nicknames? I have. She left many, and combined, they DO tell a story.”
Somewhat. I don’t remember them all but I did read some made by the other nickname.
It’s why again I said, “Troll or not, the reason why I quoted her/him/it was because it sounds credible enough to apply to a normal person.”
and…
“Now I don’t know if the person saying this is an obvious troll or not but let’s assume the words are from a sincere person.”
“I stand by what I said in it’s entirety.”
…and my last post was not intended for you to waver with what you said.
“If by chance you actually have any issue with her harping on the “merits” of “life coaching,” then feel free to address her directly, and give your own specific, compelling reasons why you disagree.”
This already happened. Check the last couple of posts.
“Have you ever previously used “to be fair” here, in the opposite situation, when responding to criticisms made by defenders of “life coaches?””
Well I hope I was. Certainly that was my intention but as not really implied, I seemed like a troll but I would hope that life coach defenders would see that by asking the troll the question of “why I might be a troll?” that I could at least show to the sincere life coach defenders that I am indeed trying to be fair. Although I admit, I don’t really understand the premise for this sentence.
“When you use the word “troll,” are you, yourself, intentionally using it as a negative term, or are you using it only as a naming convention in order to interact with others who use the term?”
It would be silly to not be using them as both. If this was a private one on one conversation, the latter could work but since this is a public comment section – it would be silly to assume that the other party reading the post won’t get offended even if someone wasn’t using it as a negative term. It just seems like a confusing paradox.
I would hope that even the “anti-guru” pretending gurus would be smart enough to realize that you can’t pull something like this in a public comment section. Especially if there’s a risk that one of your clients in an anonymous pseudonym could unintentionally be the one you are calling a troll.
In all scenarios, sincere or faking, the premise that the word trolling is just used as a conversation sprinkler is silly and seriously flawed. Beyond Tim Brownson silly.
“How about clearly stating your specific view about “life coaching.” Support, don’t support, conditional support, etc.
If you are against, state what you would say to someone who might be considering it.”
…umm have you not read all of my comemnts thus far?
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 22nd, 2011 at 11:46 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Ben,
I was also checking up on my past threads and I saw this past thread I made on a different site. Hopefully this proves I’m not an “in disguise” troll once and for all and that my stance on life coaching has always been consistent:
(It’s in a different username but if you check my profile, it will link to an account that uses this name)
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=19886.0
In case it isn’t also clear, my link while more of a post quoting someone else also links to a post where I actually wrote something related to life coaching but isn’t particularly dealing with one:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=19885.0
(Mind you these two posts where written prior to having discovered salty and I haven’t been scammed then as in I didn’t pay for any scamming service so my stance was even much softer than the way I write now.)
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 22nd, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Ben,
…right,
Apparently I also coined these terms that could relate to life coaching so hopefully this pretty much answers the question “How about clearly stating your specific view about “life coaching.” Support, don’t support, conditional support, etc.” as I really don’t have much detailed views on life coaching except for what I have already written in the comments here:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=23078.msg209034#msg209034
Morbid Anxiety – The state where you feel overwhelmed as you’re setting up your system and cramp out. Symptoms include looking for a Life Coach to bail your system out by unparalyzing you.
Helpatitis A – The state of becoming productive by helping teach others to be productive while you are still unproductive resulting in a random set of mostly asinine advises where the followers learn as you learn except they ended up paying you as you go along your journey to become a richer guru.
Helpatitis B – The state where you end up helping lots of people productively by giving them a place to whine and share their needs transforming the spot into a hang out place without really taking into consideration and adding those advises into improving your system.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]
# 21 September 2011 at 1:39 pm
» Deconstructing Dunford said:
[...] … just scheduled a couple of coaching sessions with Naomi Dunford’s “life coach” Tim Brownson. [...]
  +2
# 22 September 2011 at 11:28 pm

MobyMom said:
“I presume you realize every business you ever buy from does exactly the same, right?”
Bullshit. Maybe if you stopped swimming in the gutter full of sleezebag infoturds you’d find there are tons of small biz people who actually care about things like integrity, honesty and quality products. You won’t find them in your unicorn world, but they do exist in the world I live in.
  +6
[Reply]

LisaSimpson Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
@MobyMom,
Would love some resources – I am a small business owner waking up from this unicorn land and need REAL info. I keep seeing Chris Brogan and Charlie Gilkie and Pam Slim showing up on legitimate business websites and it scares me. I’m not sure where to turn.
  +1
[Reply]

Grover Lembeck Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
@LisaSimpson,
Try SCORE- the Service Corps of Retired Executives. They are listed at your local Small Business Administration office. I have found the volunteers at SCORE to be the best source of extremely useful business advice on a personal level.
  +3
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
October 11th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
@LisaSimpson,
I second SCORE. Their free online worksheets are definitely helpful, and I’ve heard good things about their free mentoring services.
Look at your local chamber of commerce, local university or community college, and local charities for small business resources. Find an attorney and a tax preparer to get you squared away with the government.
With Penguin publishing her book, Pam Slim’s probably going to be doing book signings at otherwise-reputable groups. Look into the group; don’t let one Pam appearance scare you off.
  +1
[Reply]
# 11 October 2011 at 9:47 am
» The M Word said:
[...] was doing an expensive product for “life coaches” :: so she took the time to look up the word manipulation in the dictionary before she told [...]
  0
# 22 October 2011 at 3:30 am
» Psychopathic Pity Party said:
[...] has life coach :: his name is Tim Brownson [...]
  0
# 1 November 2011 at 3:59 am

Lanna said:
Chris Brogan, Brian Clark and Sonia Simone are back with “2 days that will change your Internet marketing life forever…”
http://www.blueglass.com/conferences/la/speakers/
I would’ve sworn some of those other speakers were legit – truly legit, but there they are rubbing shoulders with The Syndicate.
“The Internet Marketing Experience Returns.”
Get out your wallet.
  +3
[Reply]

Sundog Reply:
February 19th, 2012 at 11:37 am
@Lanna, $1350 for a two day conference?!?!?!?! Hahahahaha. As Leslie Knope would say, “Bitches be crazy!”
  +3
[Reply]

Chuck Reply:
February 19th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
@Lanna, Delusion-motivated poverty could change people’s lives forever. It might be better to stay home and avoid that change.
  +2
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
February 19th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
@Sundog, Leslie Knope rocks! The price isn’t unusually high for a professional conference, but I certainly wouldn’t pay it for this conference.
@Chuck, It’s interesting they chose “change” when they could’ve said “improve,” isn’t it? At a glance, it looks like a conference where people who are employed in digital marketing can learn to better market their employers’/clients’ brands/products/services. But the words “your Internet marketing life” convey that it’s really for unicorn enthusiasts.
Chris Brogan and Brian Clark are buddied up on day one, leaving poor Sonia Simone to fend for herself on a day two panel.
Brogan and Clark’s talk is called “The Importance of Audience,” and the teaser asks, “[O]nce you have a loyal subscriber base, readership or following, what is then the best way to nurture, expand or transition that audience into a powerful surge of brand evangelism in today’s marketplace?” My guess is they’ll recommend teaming up with your competitors – which isn’t collusion at all – to set up a mutually beneficial schedule for promoting one another’s products.
Simone’s on the panel called “How the Evolution of Content is Changing Marketing (Again!)” I think the main takeaway will be to shorten your content. I can only assume Simone’s there to plus some new Scribe SEO subscription content-summarizing tool, for those individuals who don’t know MS Word already has a built-in content-summarizing tool.
  +2
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
February 19th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
*plug, not plus
  0
[Reply]
# 19 February 2012 at 11:20 am

Life Coaching said:
Every one needs a life coach in their life who will help them in achieving their goals. They help their clients to analyze their current situation and help them in taking the right decision in their life. They guide you through out how to overcome the obstacles that you meet in your path and achieve success. A life coach has his principles and he follows them while coaching you.
  -2
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
January 23rd, 2013 at 3:33 am
@Life Coaching,
Hello Paul Steven Davis of BreakthroughAcademy.com.au and PaulDavisLive.com.
Some questions:
1. Why have you ripped off the trade dress of Andy and Lana Wachowski’s Matrix movies? So 14 years ago.
2. Why are you fucking around with people’s minds without any sort of college degree, let alone one in psychology?
3. Why are you hanging around with this guy? And have you been burned? Your feet, at least?

No whiny B.S. about why I’m asking. You chose to wade into the salty, droid-filled waters of the deep end. Answers. Now.
  +2
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
January 23rd, 2013 at 11:39 am
@Life Coaching,
Life Coach: {n} a person who you pay a (possibly substantial) sum of money to, to have that person pretend to be an expert on a thing that no one can possibly be an expert on.
In the highly unlikely event that anyone on the Internet just passing through thinks Breakthrough Academy is a good idea: you should actually read the main article that all these comments are stuck onto.
And don’t let yourself get burned by Tony Robbins
http://saltydroid.info/footprints-on-the-fire/
http://saltydroid.info/?s=“tony+robbins”
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 January 2013 at 1:00 am