James Arthur Ray Trial Updates

Sedona 365

In October of 2009 :: James Arthur Ray’s $10,000 per head Spiritual Warrior seminar ended in calamity and tragedy. Three people were killed :: eighteen injured {many seriously} :: and thousands of followers were shocked to learn the true dark nature of the man they’d been paying large sums to follow.

James Arthur Ray’s trial for the manslaughter of James Shore :: Kirby Brown :: and Liz Neuman began March 1st 2011.

This page contains a summary of events :: important documents :: links :: and videos relating to the trial. It will be frequently updated with new information as the trial unfolds. Your participation is welcomed {/expected}.

The Sad Event

Ray’s faux “sweat lodge” occurred on the last day of the five day Spiritual Warrior seminar. In the early years of the Ray scam {2001 – 2005} :: Spiritual Warrior was the final seminar in a sequential series of ever more expensive events. Illustrated here by a graphic from one of Ray’s old sites …

But after the release of The Secret :: and his subsequent appearances on The Oprah :: Ray opened up all levels of The Journey of Power to anyone with a wallet. Still :: Spiritual Warrior was considered one of the “advanced” events :: and few {if any} participants at the 2009 fiasco were having their first James Arthur Ray experience.

A guide containing limited event information :: instructions :: and a very uncharitable liability waiver was mailed to participants in July 2009 …

As in almost all past iterations of the Spiritual Warrior “sweat lodge” :: multiple people ended up dangerously ill in 2009. But unlike past events :: in 2009 two participants died on site. The 911 call …

Two People …. Not Breathing

Ray made no efforts to help the sick or dying. Neither James Shore nor Kirby Brown ever started breathing again. Liz Neuman died in an Arizona hospital nine days later :: after spending a week in a coma.

By the time Liz died :: Ray had already returned to his scam seminar road show.

The Arrest

Yavapai County immediately commenced an extensive investigation into the matter. They interviewed most of the 2009 participants :: and a great many past participants. Ray’s lawyers submitted a memo to the county prosecutor’s office explaining how it was all just a terrible accident that had been “devastating” to Mr. Ray. The memo argued that Mr. Ray had not been criminally negligent in the three deaths.

The prosecutor and the grand jury disagreed :: and on February 3rd 2010 :: James Arthur Ray was arrested and charged with three counts of manslaughter.


Ray’s bail was initially set at $5 million :: and he was unable to post the required bond. After a hearing to determine the status of his lack of harmonic wealth :: bail was reduced to $525,000. Once out on bail Ray immediately recommenced his remorseless and predatory marketing tactics.

His lawyers kept busy as well …

Motions :: Memos :: and Orders — {links to pdf’s}

The defense filed multiple motions seeking to change the location of the trial :: the State replied :: the Court denied the request.

The defense sought to exclude the testimony of cult expert Rick Ross :: the State replied :: the Court will allow Ross’ testimony.

The defense filed a motion seeking to suppress evidence of Ray’s prior {bad} acts :: including evidence regarding past “sweat lodge” events gone wrong. The Court ruled partially in favor of that motion :: and the State requested reconsideration based on the relevance of the evidence to lesser included offenses.

Audio recordings of the 2009 Spiritual Warrior seminar were turned over to James Ray International after the State had executed its search warrant. When the State requested the recordings :: the defense refused to comply claiming a 5th Amendment protection. The State filed a motion to compel disclosure of the audios :: the defense plead the Fifth … and lost. The Court ordered disclosure of the audios.

Immediately after turning over the audios :: the defense filed a motion seeking to exclude them from evidence. The State didn’t like that idea :: and neither did the Court. The State’s motion for reconsideration of prior bad acts contains a partial transcript of those October 8th audio files.

In the final week before the trial :: Judge Darrow agreed to a request for live television coverage. Ray shouldn’t be too nervous :: he’s been on television before …

Find James Arthur Ray back on TV … this time on In Session :: as the triple manslaughter trial that he’s manifested upon himself plays out live.

>> bleep bleep

update 1 :: 2 March 2011 ]

The Trial

Opening day opens :: like seemingly all things legal :: delayed.

Opening statements didn’t begin until after the live TV coverage had ended :: but key parts were aired during the many lulls and delays of day two.

County Attorney Sheila Polk’s basic argument in her opening statement was that James Arthur Ray is totally guilty. She let Mr. Ray do most of that talking by playing damning chucks of Spiritual Warrior recordings that the State only recently received. Some of Mr. Ray’s greatest hits included …

  • “I am god” {pause for effect}
  • “… it’ll be hellacious hot”
  • “Why do I have to be me? Why can’t I just do a weenie sweat lodge like everyone else?”
  • “You’re going to feel like you’re dying … I guarantee it.”

Video — James Ray arrives with team California :: has trouble quashing his fear and repressing his rage :: and someone from CNN gets it EXACTLY right …

Luis Li’s open focused on the fact that the victims “were all adults”. They didn’t have to go into the “sweat lodge” :: and they didn’t have too stay.

Ray’s staff had been trained in CPR {a super useful skill as long people are willing to drop all the way dead}. There were hoses :: some fruit :: and some gatorade. By happenstance :: one of the unpaid volunteers was a nurse.

Li put up this graphic to illustrate Ray’s safety first approach …

What more could you want? People inside an enclosed space so hot that three people were killed had been pre-commanded to “remain alert” … done and done. Of course :: two of the people assigned to “help” were JRI’s own Josh Fredrickson and Greg Hartle. Hartle left after the fourth round {because it was a death trap} :: and Fredrickson smashed his head on one of the wood beams before himself leaving Mr. Shore :: Ms. Brown :: and Ms. Neuman to die. But that wouldn’t be a good thing to include in a defense open.

Li’s second safety first graphic was part of Ray’s pre-lodge instructions :: and was accompanied by the audio. The profanity was censored in the slide but not the audio :: and Li pre-apologized for it …

Don’t stampede :: it’s one of the first things in the OSHA handbook as well.

Apparently Li’s “they’re all adults” theory only applies to people dying in sweat boxes after 36 hours in the desert without food or sleep :: and not so much to members of the jury being subjected to ocular profanity.

Along with apologizing for Ray’s profanity :: Li showed how he’s totally not a city boy by repeatedly {like more than 10 times} referring to the victim pool as “folks”. They were just some folks :: folks like you and me. If folks wanted to live :: folks should have left the “sweat lodge” over fake god’s advice and gone to the watermelon station with Greg Hartle.

Then to the meat of the defense …

1. They didn’t die from heat stroke. An expert who didn’t examine the bodies will testify that it’s a possibility.

2. Maybe they were poisoned … or something.

Sounds good.

Good luck with that … God.

>> bleep bloop

update 2 :: 3 March 2011 ]

Death Ray lamely speaketh {some JAR audios used by the prosecution during opening statements} …

{pause} i am god {pause}

Once again, no one can talk to God … for any reason, except a priest. And I AM GOD. If you talk to god for any reason, you immediately die.

because you’re dead

If death comes upon you, there is only one noble way to die, and that is,you fall immediately to the floor wherever you are. And of course because you’re dead, you cannot move a muscle …. ever. You cannot open you eyes … because you’re dead. You cannot scratch  your nose, or shift your body in any way … because you’re dead.

opportunities … stole by sleep

Q: If you want to do this kinda as full on as possible would you recommend not sleeping?

A: Great question. Yes. Uhm, because again … many great opportunities and experiences can be stole by sleep.

pitch darkness … no water

You’ll be taken out in pitch darkness. You may have no flashlight. You may have no watch. You may have no cell phone or electronics of any kind. You can have no water, no food, or snacks. The only thing you might bring, which is really not traditional but I’m taking it easy on you, is you can bring your; sleeping bag, the clothes that you have on your back, your journal, and something to write with.

today’s the day {to die}

You know, how many of you by show of hands, have recognized by now that even if you bought into the grand illusion that you would come to Sedona, to the desert, and, you, I warned you in advanced it was intense. Have I kept my word so far? Yeah … well we’re just getting started. Cause today’s the day. Today’s the day to put your life on the line, and all that you stand for. But you see, I warned you as much as possible in advance. And I even tell ya before you sign up, hey if you’re not willing to do the work …

altered states … minus psychoactives

So here’s what’s going to happen, you will be in such an altered state, probably the most, you know… profound altered state you’ve ever been in minus psychoactives. Seriously, I mean, you, you may see visions.

why can’t i be a weenie?

And it’s such a great metaphor. You know? If you’ve been on this journey with me for any amount of time you there’s all kinds of physical metaphors. And there’s probably nothing greater than the lodge … my lodge. Because at some point in time you just have to let go and say, “if I’m going to die it’s okay. Because I don’t ever die … not really. My body dies, I don’t die. You most likely will feel like your skin is going to fall off of your body. It’s hot … hellacious hot.

And even though I’m leading the lodge, I guarantee you, every single year I approach the lodge with great respect. I’ve been anticipating it all day long, because by about the second or third round I’m thinking, “why the hell am I me?” {lols} Why couldn’t I just do a weenie ass lodge like someone else does? And the reason is because … when you emerge … you will be a different person. Because when you’ve faced your own death, you’ve stared it in the eyes and you’ve overcome it, then life’s never the same … it’s really just not. It’s just not.

… thus spoke zarathustra … or something.

>> bleep bleep

[ update 3 :: 4 March 2011 ]

Some TV personalities are wondering why a law firm like Munger Tolles & Olson would be handling this sort of criminal case.  It seems curious :: and doesn’t exactly fit their profile …


Perhaps this graphic can help shed some light on the subject {and/or make things even more confusing} …

The photo is from James Ray International’s flickr stream :: according to the tags it was taken back stage at one of the Oprah tapings in 2007.  On the left {in fur} is The Secret creator Rhonda Byrne. The text is from the acknowledgements to her new “book” :: The Power.

Everybody needs friends.

>> bleep

[ update 4 :: 6 March 2011 ]

The first week of the James Arthur Ray trial saw the complete testimony of just two and half witnesses :: about forty more and it’ll be all over {better pull up a chair} …

Melissa Phillips was the first witness in the case :: her calm and extensive testimony outlined the events of the Spiritual Warrior seminar for the jury for the first time.

Ms. Phillips discovered Mr. Ray while viewing The Secret. She read his ghostwritten book :: and then started attending the seminars. She testified that the Spiritual Warrior event was the last event in her “Journey of Power” :: and that she had attended all the other seminars in the “pyramid”.

The defense objected to the “Journey of Power” language being introduced :: then they strenuously objected …

Sidebar …


The defense wants to frame each victim’s relationship with Ray exclusively in terms of Spiritual Warrior 2009.  But that is ultimately not going to be possible :: because it’s not factual. Almost all of the witnesses will testify to a long and expensive entanglement with Ray’s scripted conditioning machine.

The Prescott Daily Courier {a local rag} recapped Ms. Phillips first day testimony :: and detailed another context setback for the defense’s only-2009 approach …

“According to Polk, Ray began conducting annual sweats in 2003 at Angel Valley. Each time, she said, he would make them hotter.

In 2005, she said, people got sick after the ceremony. At that point, Polk said, he cooled them down for a couple of years until 2007, when he again began to “ratchet up the heat.”

Polk alluded to a 2008 incident in which one participant was hurt, and of course to 2009, when three people died.

The pattern of increasing heat, she said, was critical to the state’s decision to charge Ray with manslaughter. In fact, she said it was “ultimately why Mr. Ray was charged.”

On these grounds Judge Darrow has decided to allow evidence regarding past “sweat lodge” debacles. A ruling which any lawyer who has examined the record should have been anticipating.

Ms. Phillips left the death box after the third round :: but then she returned not wanting to disappoint herself :: her fellow warriors :: or Mr. Ray. She was worried about the chaos and danger within the lodge :: particularly Kirby’s labored breathing and deliriously enthusiastic {shouted} words of encouragement. She vocalized her concerns :: but was ignored :: or deliriously repudiated.

Jennifer Haley’s testimony was 2nd :: and 4th :: and was interrupted several times by Jennifer Haley.

Ms. Haley was at Spiritual Warrior 2009 as a member of the “Dream Team” {unpaid labor in team t-shirts}. She testified that she’d been called there :: fittingly enough :: by her dreams :: even though she didn’t believe in certain parts of the ceremony :: all of which she says she explained to Mr. Ray in her “essay”. Jennifer had already completed her “Journey of Power” :: but perhaps she came up just a tad short of total enlightenment.

Jennifer Haley is a hair stylist by trade {one imagines you’ll have better luck booking appointments in the afternoon}. Jennifer was one of the official head shavers in Death Ray’s totally not cult like head shaving ritual. But James Ray can’t do weenie head shavings like someone else might do :: so he demanded that Ms. Haley remove the plastic guard and go bare clippers. She told him that was a bad idea :: people could get burned or gouged :: “JUST DO IT!!” :: she reenacted him shouting :: “so I did” :: she said … then she kinda giggled.

As Yakuru pointed out on Twitter :: according to police interviews Jennifer Haley was one of the people who did CPR on Kirby Brown while James Ray was walking around being cross-eyed and useless.

Ms. Haley’s testimony is set to resume on Tuesday.

Laura Tucker was the State’s third witness :: the bulk of her testimony was compelling and disturbing. Laura is a college educated auto industry consultant from CanadaLand. She too was on the home stretch of her “Journey of Power” :: as The Daily Courier recounts …

Spiritual Warrior was the only one of Ray’s workshops she had yet to finish in the year and a half she had spent absorbing his teachings.

“I was on a track,” Tucker said. “My personal development was important at that time. I wanted to complete the series.”

Ms. Tucker was the first to die in the “God” “game”. Lying motionless on the ground :: feeling defeated and experiencing physical pain :: didn’t help Laura to personally develop.

After the no-food no-water vision quest :: Ray’s pre “sweat lodge” instructions had put Tucker even more ill at ease. She :: and her shaved head :: entered the lodge with trepidation. Liz Neuman sat down near Laura :: and when Laura expressed her concerns :: Liz helped calm them. Liz instructed Laura :: and several others :: to stay close to the ground :: and to get into Child’s Pose facing away from the rock pit. To help stave off the dark-and-scarys :: Liz and Laura agreed to occasionally tap on each other throughout.

Liz is nice :: and Laura felt better … until the rocks came in {possibly up to 15 on the first round}. For the first three rounds Laura was sure she’d need to leave :: but she was able to balance herself and remain. It was :: after all :: the end of her Journey. She had played “full on” :: and still was. For herself :: and for all the other warriors she’d already sacrificed so much for :: head to the back of the tent … shallow breaths … Laura stayed.

But something was wrong with Liz. She got into Child Pose facing the pit :: a bad idea … and counter to advice she’d given just a few piles of hot rocks ago. Liz stopped tapping :: and Laura started getting worried. Liz moved from Child’s Pose and leaned back against the front of Laura’s legs. The extra weight was hard for Laura to bear :: and increased her concerns about Liz’s condition. She expressed these concerns to James Arthur Ray in between rounds and was ignored. She tried again a second time after the next round :: this time more assertively …

“James, it’s Laura. I’m concerned about Liz.”

Death Ray’s answer …

“Liz has done this before and she knows what she’s doing.”

You can’t “know how” to survive in a dangerously hostile and uncontrolled situation like this :: you either just do or you just don’t … Liz didn’t.

The defense had the opportunity to cross-examine both Ms. Phillips and Ms. Tucker. In both instances :: the cross served to further expose Ray’s evil shenanigans. Paraphrasing Mr. Kelly to Ms. Phillips …

“You said you heard Lou Caci’s scream … and it was like a boyish scream … is that correct?”

Answers Ms. Phillips …

“I believe I called it an inhumane scream.”

The defense rests.

At another point :: attempting to illustrate how Ms. Phillips was an adult who could decide for herself :: Mr. Kelly asked/implicated …

“But you did say you left your circle during the vision quest … correct?”

Without pause she answers {almost defensively} …

“Two fingers! Only two fingers when I lost my balance…”

The defense rests … again.

More dangerous for the defense is an undercurrent that says if James Arthur Ray is guilty of manslaughter based on his inaction during the lodge :: then so is Laura Tucker … and every other participant who sensed the situation was out of control but did not take the drastic action necessary to keep others alive :: and out of comas. Ms. Tucker didn’t take any action to save Ms. Neuman :: so obviously she didn’t think things were too serious. She was closer to Ms. Neuman :: so if she didn’t sense the direness of the situation :: then how could James Ray?

But that line of questions :: under the pressure of the cameras and the witness chair :: risks bringing someone to a brutal epiphany. “I knew she was in deep trouble … but I did nothing. She was my friend … and I did nothing … because I allowed myself to become servile to the greed of James Ray. Because he made me into not me … and I’m not proud of it.”

If the defense doesn’t provoke that reaction by over-reaching on cross :: it’s open to Ms. Polk at any time.  On her redirect :: in the last of her questions :: Ms. Polk asked Laura Tucker if she was still haunted by the event. Laura said yes :: with her eyes and her mouth. Ms. Polk asked the question again two more times in sequence :: slightly different phraseology each time. The defense’s objections to the repeat questions were sustained … and Ms. Polk let it go.

The tear-filled-truthful answer to the question :: “why didn’t you do more to help?” :: won’t keep James Arthur Ray out of jail. Stanley Milgram’s famous {and oft repeated} experiment showed that a large majority of human’s will submit to the most dire of demands from just about anyone projecting the aura of authority. Follow is humanity’s default state. In this case :: the authority figure was not a random researcher in a lab coat :: but an intentionally manipulative con man backed by the compounding effects of a large group pre-screened of dissent. Within such a situation :: there can be no freedom but escape.

The truth is that Laura Tucker did do something so incredibly brave. No food and no water and no sleep and no warning :: her own life in danger :: Laura Tucker kept her **** together and called out an assertive and dissenting notice of the danger to the resident authority figure.

Laura did what she could do :: thanks Laura.

James Arthur Ray … did not.

>> bleep bloop

update 5 :: 8 March 2011 ]

Before Kirby Brown died in James Arthur Ray’s sacrilegious excuse for a sweat lodge :: she died in his god game. For hours she laid on the ground motionless :: freezing :: having to go to the bathroom so badly that she was swallowing down her own vomit.

She told James Ray and the other participants about her unpleasant god game experience during an open mic session that occurred just a few hours before the sweat lodge event. The prosecution wanted to play a portion of that tape for the jury to help show that Mr. Ray was on notice about the physical risks and discomforts his participants would be willing to endure in order to satisfy the “full on” mantra of his teachings. The defense objected to its admission because it would be prejudicial to allow the jury the to hear the voice of one of the dead victims.

Judge Darrow seemed concerned about the prejudice possibilities of the recording as well :: but stated {as previously} his preference for allowing evidence whenever possible. This was probably a close call :: and I’ll venture a pointless guess that it turned on the fact that Ray’s voice can be heard on the tape …

Kirby :: “… and then I puked … and then I sowllowed it down …”

Death Ray :: “wow”

Pretty strong evidence really :: so Judge Darrow allowed it over his own :: and the defenses :: concerns about its emotional nature.

Here’s the strange part :: the defense proceded to demand “context” … and so insisted that a huge portion of Kirby’s pre-death soliloquy to be played for the jury. The Judge pointed out that if 20 seconds {what the State wanted played} of a dead victims voice was prejudicial :: then surely 230 seconds that much more so … but no … they wanted them some “context” …

kirby brown … as i lay dying

You can judge for yourself about the exculpatory value of the extra 200 seconds :: they mostly filled me with cry.

Eerily :: some of Kirby Brown’s last words …

“Our loved ones that have passed are there with us, and we can use them for help.”

Maybe :: but most definitely not in the same way as the ones who haven’t passed.

Kirby was obviously the kind of gal always looking for the bright-side :: maybe she could have see one here … cause I can’t.

>> bleep bloop

[ update 6 :: 10 March 2011 ]

The defense is convinced that the jury needs context. If they are going to hear audio recordings from Spiritual Warrior :: then they should hear full versions and not just clips chosen by the prosecutor.

That’s a fair point {and there’s a rule about it} :: it’s just that EVERYTHING that comes out of Ray’s mouth sounds so unbelievably vile and disgusting if your not already washed in his washings. Prosecutors aren’t selecting the worst clips to try and make Ray look bad :: they are selecting the clips that they think they can get admitted. Much of what’s on the tapes would not be admissible if introduced by the prosecution. The State can’t attempt to introduce evidence just to show that Mr. Ray is a big fat jerk {even though he is}.

But the defense :: by insisting on context and completeness :: is itself introducing masses of evidence highly damaging to their highly damaging client.

So for that … I say thank you to Munger Tolles & Olson.

Here :: at the defense’s insistance :: is the full 45 min presentation that James Arthur Ray made to participants just a few minutes before they went into the sweat lodge. Many “folks” didn’t know there was going to be a sweat lodge :: and this was their only instruction …

Death Ray Death Lodge 101

Death Ray Death Lodge 102

Death Ray Death Lodge 103

Context FTW!

The defense rests.

>> bleep bloop

[ update 7 :: 11 March 2011 ]

Jennifer Haley’s four day marathon of testimony started off strangely :: but ended strongly. During the first several hours it seemed a distinct possibility that Ms. Haley would float right out of the court room :: but she filled her boots with sand :: put on a blazer … and turned in a stellar performance for the truth. The truth :: aka the context :: is almost always bad for James Arthur Ray.

Ms. Haley had been to all the other Ray events :: including Spiritual Warrior 2007. She had also Dream Teamed previous events. By the time her dreams called her to the 2009 event :: she was starting to have her doubts about the fearless leader. Still :: something kept pulling her back … we’ll call it conditioning {since that’s what it was}.

While the participants were out on their no food no water vision quests :: the ladies of the Dream Team {including Ms. Haley and Ms. Neuman} went to Sedona and had pizza because the food at Angel Valley was terrible. They wanted to bring back a couple bottles of wine :: but along with terrible food Angel Valley sports a no-alcohol policy. Like the polite ladies they are :: they called back to Angel Valley and asked for permission to be adults.

Permission granted.

They had a few moments together :: drinking wine and talking … not much to ask considering that they were all putting in long hours doing “volunteer” labor at their own expense. But it was too much for Death Ray :: and he came storming out to chastise them for waking him up. How dare they laugh!

“Great opportunities can be stole by sleep” :: but James Arthur Ray was sleeping by 8pm.

Later :: when the nice lady laughter failed to subside to fake god satisfying levels :: he came out for a second round of scolding. This time he was meaner :: and more personal. He criticized them for drinking  :: and told them that their “hearts weren’t in it.” Ms. Haley was offended :: everyone was offended. They talked about what to do and decided that they should confront Mr. Ray with their objections.

Once Ray got back in the room :: the plan changed as each expressed {often tearfully} what “they had learned” from disappointing Mr. Ray. Ms. Haley didn’t like the change of plans :: and went with her original plan of telling him she didn’t appreciate the poor treatment or the insults. Says the big bad guru man …

“Well if I’m going to be attacked them I’m leaving”

Then the other Dream Team members :: “all jumped on me” {half giggle} :: said Jennifer Haley.

Haley was feeling isolated and alone and says that Liz Neuman :: one of Ray’s original followers :: took the incident especially badly.

Truc Do tried to soften the sting of this story on cross examination :: but softening doesn’t seem to be her speciality. She foolishly asked Jennifer Haley to agree that this sad incident had nothing to do with Liz Neuman staying in the sweat lodge. Jennifer Haley did not agree. Ms. Do insisted :: so Ms. Haley also insisted that it absolutely had something to do with it.  It was awesome! Ms. Do made the same mistake by tell-asking Ms. Haley about the likelihood that having your head shaved would make you more willing to stay in the lodge. Ms. Do forced Ms. Haley to insist that it was a reason for staying in the lodge. Ms. Haley said that in her experience as a hair dresser for 20 years :: women are especially vulnerable after changing their hair … and outside of camp Death Ray … she’d never done anything as drastic as a head shaving. Again … it was awesome! Had Ms. Polk tried to induce the same answers from Ms. Haley the defense’s objections would have been well sustained.

During the sweat lodge Jennifer Haley was stationed outside the lodge. She refused to be inside having had an unpleasant :: and dangerous :: experience in 2007. She had no medical training :: and was in no way prepared for her role as trauma nurse. But that didn’t stop her from asserting herself time and time again throughout that horrible afternoon. Forty five minutes of CPR on Kirby Brown :: getting vomit and dirt in her mouth :: doing her best with the worst … full on.

Dr. Nell Wagoner :: a gynecologist from Juneau Alaska :: was the State’s next witness. Dr. Wagoner had turned to Mr. Ray’s teachings while seeking to overcome a personal trauma. She was seated near the lodge opening :: very near to Mr. Ray. Dr. Wagoner witnessed at least five people being dragged out of the lodge unconscious. She was concerned when Lou Caci left the lodge badly injured :: but even more concerned when he was allowed to re-entered.

After the lodge :: Dr. Wagoner attempted to exit by going all the way around the circle in a clockwise fashion as per Death Ray’s pre-lodge instructions. The defense argues that this clockwise dictate was about safety :: but Dr. Wagoner testified that she thought it was more ceremonial. As she attempted to complete the ceremony :: one of the last to leave :: she noticed that the heat deeper within the lodge was far more overwhelming … and that three people were still unconscious on the ground.  She told Mr. Ray that 911 should be called :: he said “it’s been taken care of”.

Dr. Wagoner saw Liz Neuman lying alone on the ground :: unconscious :: mouth foaming :: labored breathing … cold skin. She stayed with Liz until the paramedics arrived.

In Arizona :: after the lawyers are done questioning a witness :: the jury is given an opportunity to ask its own questions via the judge. The jury asked Dr. Wagoner if she noticed any emergency preparedness measures taken by either JRI or Angel Valley :: she said no.

The State’s next witness was Dennis Mehrevar. The Droid missed much of Mr. Mehrevar’s direct examination because the live feed was temporarily out of order :: but I already know the story. Dennis lost consciousness and was dragged out. He came to screaming and thinking he was dying :: James Ray didn’t care and just wanted him to shut up.

Luis Li’s cross of Mr. Mehrevar contained two :: almost unbelievably epic :: blunders. Mr. Li wanted Mr. Mehrevar to admit that :: like Mr. Ray :: he was offering “words of encouragement” to other participants about not leaving the lodge. Mr. Mehrevar said he wasn’t really being encouraging :: he was just parroting Mr. Ray’s words per the instructions. Mr. Li insisted that he was being encouraging :: and by doing so induced Dennis to say :: “I was just following what Mr. Ray was saying” … four consecutive times. I laughed :: but I’m sure Mr. Li won’t.

The second blunder was even more ridiculous. Li wanted Mr. Mehrevar to admit that if he had thought the situation was life threatening for others :: he obviously would have done something to stop the ceremony and get help. No dice. Dennis flat out says he wouldn’t have helped :: it wasn’t his place :: and in this situation he was totally concentrating on his own survival. Li :: shocked at the shockingness of this answer :: and trying to perform an emergency save … ended up soliciting the same response in several new ways including inserting himself into the hypothetical …

Q: “So if I was right here :: and you knew I was dying … you wouldn’t do anything to save me?”

A: “No.”

Once again … awesome.

Maybe {just maybe} it’s time for the defense attorneys in this case to face up to the FACT that extensive mind manipulation has been used against sympathetic citizens … and start acting {and lawyering} accordingly. Of course :: then they’d stop sucking … so I advise against it.

>> bleep bloop

[ Dr. Nell Wagoner ‘s testimony :: live blog archive :: {March 9th} ]

[ Dennis Mehrevar’s testimony :: live blog archive :: {March 9th} {March 10th} ]

[ update 8 :: 15 March 2011 ]

Next witness!

The State calls Michael Olesen from :: you guessed it :: Canada.

Mr. Olesen was attending Spiritual Warrior with his wife :: but of course they lodged separately at camp Death Ray. Spouses talking is bad for mind control. Oh I’m sorry did I say mind control? Because I meant mind control.

Olesen described himself as a day trader :: he had been to several other Ray events which he had paid for in a package “deal” :: and he was an unimpressed member of the World Wealth Society. Mr. Olesen didn’t give the impression of man seeking enlightenment via woo woo :: he answered a question about his journaling with little more than a grunt and an eye roll.

Say NO to scrapbooking :: show me the money!

World Wealth Society was super good at the taking of the monies {$50Kish} :: but it wasn’t so good at the showing of the monies.

Mr. Olesen sat on the inner ring of the death lodge :: at the back. He was near his wife :: and directly in front of Lou Caci. After the fourth or fifth round he crawled and/or was dragged out. He spent one round cooling down :: and then went back in to the sweat hole where his wife remained. Things were not looking :: or sounding :: too good inside the lodge. Michael Olesen was concerned about everyone’s safety :: “but I wasn’t running the show.”

Before the last round Ray instructed everyone to lay down because the heat was going to be intense. Linda :: who was sitting near Olesen and Caci :: didn’t lie down. Olesen tried to help her but she seemed completely unresponsive. He was unable to move her :: and called out for some help. None came. James Ray told him to just leave her :: she’d be fine.

She wasn’t fine :: and after the lodge Michael Olesen noticed James Arthur Ray doing nothing while he and the participants bravely scurried to help each other.

At various times in his testimony Mr. Olesen described Mr. Ray as angry :: serious :: and intense. It’s not just fragile little ladies who got the idea you didn’t interrupt fake god during a fake ceremony.

Scammers :: especially large group scammers :: need to recruit professionals into their little clubs so that they can …

a) take their money

b) use them as legitimacy anchors for recruiting new members.

If a bunch of doctors and lawyers are doing it … then it must be all good. It’s not some crazy cult or something … look at all these fancy degrees. That’s not rational decision making because degrees offer no protection from evil schemes :: but not rational meets people where they’re at … and works like a charm.

Huckstering professionals is an excellent strategy :: right up until the moment you go on trial for manslaughter and they start testifying against you. Now the same legitimacy building mechanism you relied upon to bolster your scams is harnessed by the State to make their case {and the pool of victims and witnesses} feel more credible. That’s almost enough hilarious irony to uncross a set of heinously crossed eyes … but not quite.

Beverley Bunn :: an orthodontist from Dallas :: was just getting started on her James Arthur Ray experience. She’d only been to one other event :: and she wasn’t sure she was going to attend Spiritual Warrior. Dr. Bunn testified that a couple of calls from Michelle Goulet had finally closed her on the deal {a “service” Michelle often performed}. She showed up too late for the group waiver signing :: and so signed her’s alone in the Angel Valley offices. She didn’t read them :: but that didn’t keep the defense from going on and on about them during cross.

Dr. Bunn was Kirby Brown’s roommate during Spiritual Warrior :: she described her as upbeat and excited about participating in events. Dr. Bunn discussed her reluctance to participate in the head shaving with Kirby.

“There were always comments” :: from James Arthur Ray about those who hadn’t shaved their heads :: said Dr. Bunn. Early in the retreat people were assigned a Dream Team member to work with them on their various problems and intentions. Beverley Bunn was instructed by Mr. Ray that she was to work exclusively with him. When she tried to talk with him about her struggles regarding the head shaving he said …

“I don’t give a fuck what you do. Shave your head … don’t shave your head … doesn’t really matter.”

Nice. And where do I sign up to give you more monies?

She did shave her head :: on the last day :: “full on”. Just a few days later Dr. Bunn defied her “vanity” again by being the first :: and one of the only :: victims willing to bald-headedly describe the scary situation inside the death lodge to the national press :: “fuller on”.

Dr. Bunn’s memories of the death lodge were detailed and precise. She had far better recall of events than previous witnesses :: remembering details like the number of rocks Mr. Ray called for in between rounds :: and the precise locations of many other participants within the lodge.

12 rocks & 5 gallons of water in each of the first two rounds. It was too hot :: at the end of the third round she decided that the next round would be her last. Midway through that round she started to worry that she wasn’t going to have enough strength left to crawl out. But she was wrong :: when the flap opened she still had enough go juice to make it to the door.

But Death Ray was there :: and he tried to stop her :: “especially you are better than this … it’s just mind over matter.” Much to her future self’s dismay :: she stayed. Many other minds succumbed to matter as Dr. Bunn remembers :: like Dr. Wagoner :: multiple people being dragged out limp unconscious.

After the sixth round things started to get crazy. There’s a clear warning that some one is not breathing :: lots of people start screaming out to each other. Fake god aggressively demands silence :: “I’m in charge” :: “this round is beginning … we’ll deal with that in the next round” :: flap closes {on Kriby’s life}.

According to Dr. Bunn things were quieter in the lodge after that. Those who were still alive mostly focused on remaining so.

After the lodge James Arthur Ray was the first out :: but Dr. Bunn didn’t leave for another 7-10 minutes as she struggled to help move some other bodies out of the sweltering heat. Outside the lodge Dr. Bunn went from victim to victim making assessments and doing what she could to help. Sidney Spencer was completely non-responsive and her eyes were rolled back into her head. It looked like all the blood vessels in Stephen Ray’s eyes had burst. Some lady was lying unconscious on her side :: completely cutting off circulation to her now blue arm.

Dr. Bunn could tell CPR was being done on the backside of the sweat lodge. Through the chaos :: she could see Kriby’s bikini rising and falling with the forced respirations. Recall of this horror was more than Dr. Bunn could bear :: and she lost her day long struggle to hold back her still raw emotions.

It was pretty clear from Dr. Bunn’s testimony that she knew there was an ongoing medical disaster before the lodge was over. She kept waiting for Ray to do something about it :: and he never did. She also stated the reasons for her own inaction quite clearly :: she was a participant not a leader :: and it had been made very clear that no one was to question James Arthur Ray.

Beverley Bunn’s testimony was devastating :: I’ll bet James Arthur Ray “gives a fuck” now.

>> bleep bleep

[ Michael Oleson :: live blog archive :: {March 10th} ]

[ Dr. Bunn’s testimony :: live blog archive :: {March 13th} {March 15th} ]

update 9 :: 15 March 2011 ]

James Arthur Ray asks that you not miss Yoga … or else!

Death Ray … that’s a pattern

Adults were “free to choose” :: unless they did.

>> bloop

[ update 10 :: 17 March 2011 ]

James Shore had a wife and three kids.

Three tiny :: little :: still needing their daddy :: baby kids.

Unlike James Ray :: James Shore was trying to help persons in distress … he died like that.

Unlike James Ray :: James Shore was a spiritual warrior.

James Shore … enlightenment without distraction

Don’t be numb to the horror.

>> bleep bleep

[ update 12 :: 25 March 2011 ]


But I haven’t said anything y–



Please excuse me while I narrate :: speculate :: and lead my way through several witnesses without any interruption from grumpy old men or L.A. snobs.

Mr. Kelly’s cross examination of Beverley Bunn was full of hostile. This exchange best sums up how that hostility went for the defense …

Mr. Kelly :: “Nobody was dragged into the sweat lodge … correct?”

Dr. Bunn ::  “Just out …”

And there you have it. The answer was sticken from the record :: but no it wasn’t.

Mr. Kelly spent an entire afternoon badgering Dr. Bunn :: a victim whether or not James Ray is a criminal :: and revealed not a single fact useful to his client. His unwarranted assertion that Dr. Bunn had exaggerated about Ray’s hostility and public shaming of a participant who missed Yoga led to the revealing audio posted above being played for the jury.

Mr. Kelly did manage to confuse Dr. Bunn into saying that she may have misquoted Ray :: but that was quickly cleared up on re-direct by Mr. Hughes. Her misquote only existed in Tom Kelly’s dull imagination.

Stephen Ray thought that Spiritual Warrior was all about getting direct access to James Ray. He had attended most of Ray’s other events :: and had paid $14,000 for a package of seminars that included Spiritual Warrior 2008. He was unable to attend that event :: and paid a completely unreasonable $500 “change fee” to transfer his attendance to the 2009 event.

One of the things that Stephen Ray admired about James Arthur Ray was his “impeccable attention to detail”. Stephen testified that James Ray mentioned the sweat lodge was built to his personal specifications. Stephen Ray trusted that James Arthur Ray would keep him safe :: and that he wasn’t actually risking death by going into the sweat lodge.

The events on the Journey of Power had increased in intensity {a fact accidentally introduced by Truc Do during cross}. And the various events at Spiritual Warrior 2009 were increasing in intensity. The sweat lodge was the last activity :: and even though he was in a near panic thinking about the hot enclosed space … Stephen Ray entered the doomed structure.

S.Ray had dreams he was being water boarded. He woke up in the hospital :: life changed for the not better. Harmonic Renal Failure and Harmonic Acute Brain Hypoxia.

Stephen Ray’s health problems continue today :: he doesn’t have health insurance … or a $5 million home in Beverly Hills.

Lou Caci and James Arthur Ray had been friends for a long time. They met at a Tony Robbins seminar in 1995 :: and Mr. Caci has been attending Ray events on and off ever since. Lou was convinced that playing “full on” would help him achieve things in his real life :: and he didn’t want to be seen as a failure in the eyes of James Ray.

The lodge started off badly for Mr. Caci :: and quickly got worse. By the end of the 4th round Lou was delirious :: when the flap opened he headed straight for it :: falling into the pit of hot rocks. After that his testimony was pretty much factually worthless :: all a blur of pain splotchy memory.

Lou kinda remembers getting medical aid from Melinda Martin :: and he vaguely remembers Jennifer Haley telling him not to go back inside the lodge. But he did go back into the lodge :: walking right past his “friend” James Ray. Lou’s bandaged :: burned :: and in no condition to be playing fake shaman games. James Ray was in Lou’s wedding party. Less than an hour before Lou was screaming out :: all but unconscious in the rock pit :: yet Ray invites him back in like a piece of meat.

Once back inside the lodge :: and even in his impaired state :: Lou Caci has a very clear memory of seeing Liz Neuman lying on Laura Tucker … breathing slow and heavy. Liz had been a follower of Ray for almost as long Caci :: so they’d been at events together numerous times over the years. Lou lost his father and brother to illness :: and he compared Liz’s labored breathing to their final breaths.

People were dying in that sweat lodge. Lou Caci :: with his cooked brain :: lacerated hand :: and burned arm … could tell that people were dying. James Arthur Ray sat by the door {fully hydrated} breathing freely and having cool water splashed upon himself. James Ray knew people were dying … and he closed the flap.

>> bloop bleep

[ Stephen Ray’s testimony :: live blog archive :: {March 15th} {March 16th} ]

[ Lou Caci’s testimony :: live blog archive :: {March 16th} {March 17th} ]


[ update 13 :: 28 March 2011 ]

The State calls Dr. Jeanne Armstrong …

Dr. Armstrong is a non-practicing family doctor from Indiana. She was introduced to Death Ray by Oprah :: who pretends to care about her viewers … but clearly doesn’t. Prior to the sweat lodge Dr. Armstrong had attended approximately five other Ray events. When Ray came to Indianapolis in July of 2009 :: Dr. Armstrong helped promote him. Even after the sweat lodge Dr. Armstrong seemed to maintain some of her faith in Ray.

Jeanne Armstrong {and her non-cult shaved head} sat near the door of the lodge :: and while not generally enjoying the experience :: she suffered little and wasn’t concerned for her own health during or after the event. When the flap was open between rounds :: there was some air flow :: so things were less dreadful by the door. In spite of this :: Dr. Armstrong seems to have missed witnessing some of the most incriminating events within the lodge. The jury asked her if it was possible she slept through the middle rounds.

Dr. Armstrong was set to be a star witness for defense. She was prepared to testify that she asked James Arthur Ray if there was an Automatic External Defibrillator around :: and that he walked off and failed to find one {hero!}. Doesn’t sound like much {because it isn’t} :: but the defense doesn’t have much. “Hey look, he kinda maybe did something … sort of.”  But the prosecution called her before the defense got a chance. Truc Do tried to point out to the jury that her witness had got stoled by asking Dr. Armstrong stupid questions about how she was there “by subpoena”. Doubt the jury caught that :: or cared.

Dr. Armstrong gave the impression of someone who still has soft spot for James Arthur Ray. She is not prepared to see herself as manipulated :: and so is likely not prepared to view Ray as an evil :: conscious :: and intentional manipulator. But she also didn’t seem like a liar :: out to protect Mr. Ray at the expense of the truth.

Dr. Armstrong told her version of the truth … it’s not fair to ask for more than that. Death Ray fogged minds :: that was his deal. People shouldn’t be judged harshly for the lingering fog. We don’t know what hurts :: and haunts :: other souls. All external information sets are incomplete.

In spite of Dr. Armstrong’s incomplete hatred of Ray :: her testimony actually turned out pretty badly for him. She pointed out to Truc Do that the Dream Team weren’t really safety agents … but more like other participants. The defense likes to describe victims as “foaming at the mouth” because that sort of supports their super terrific poisoning theory. When Ms. Do asked Dr. Armstrong about the “foaming” she was corrected. Dr. Armstrong thought it looked more like “frothy sputum” … which is consistent with heat stroke.

Several days later Ms. Polk told Judge Darrow during legal arguments that Dr. Armstrong was called to help start laying the medical foundation for the heat causation portion of the prosecution’s case {something Dr. Armstrong did quite nicely}. Mr. Kelly strenuously objected that he didn’t know that’s what had happened :: which was stupid :: and funny :: and not a real objection.

[ Dr. Armstrong’s testimony :: live blog archive :: {March 17th} {March 18th} ]

>> bleep bleep

[ update 14 :: 29 March 2011 ]

Laurie Gennari no like them cameras :: so at her request :: they looked away during her testimony :: forcing the public to watch James Arthur Ray squirm uncomfortably in his chair for hours on end. The chair was likely even more uncomfortable. Because everything is energy :: this chair … this old scammers decrepit body … this LA Lawyer … this water bottle … this thumb ring … this hair cut … ENERGY!

Laurie Gennari also no like James Arthur Ray. Before the jury had had a chance to ask themselves :: “did that last lady actually still like this creepy weirdo?” :: Laurie was on the stand telling them that she thought Ray’s teachings were mostly crap where you just kept waiting for the good stuff that never came … but the “Jekyll & Hyde moment” was definitely coming.


Sustained. The jury will forget that the witness said :: and very much meant :: and was totally right about :: this whole Jekyll & Hyde situation.

Almost everything Laurie said was wicked bad for Death Ray :: cause Laurie is super smart :: and she knows she got scammed … “full on”. That’s a scary bad combo for James Ray.

Laurie entered the lodge with Laura Tucker :: and they sat together until Ray inserted Liz Neuman between them to align with the moon gods of safety … or whatever.

“I had suspended normal me in order to have this experience. From where I am now it just sounds stupid.”

By the middle rounds things were getting crazy. Laurie was lying flat … digging her hand under the lodge for relief. Liz didn’t look good. Laurie heard Laura ask James Ray about Liz :: and she demonstrated the slow and slurred way that Liz said “no, no, no” she didn’t want to leave the lodge.

Liz did need to leave the lodge. Laurie Gennari knows that now :: and pretty much knew it then. But Laurie wasn’t herself that day because James Ray had stole her away :: and locked her behind a set of rules that she never got a chance to contemplate. The waiver didn’t disclose that mind manipulation had been Death Ray’s sole purpose for Spiritual Warrior. And Laurie was panicking :: she wanted to save Laurie.

Ms. Gennari decides she needs to leave :: Ms. Tucker has a very desperate and scary situation on her hands … and yet she wants Laurie to do whatever Laurie needs to do. Laura Tucker … such a nice lady.

Laurie gets almost to the door :: and then James Arthur Ray stops her.  “Too late … door’s closing.”

Door closes.

She collapses to ground … whimpering.

Laurie Gennari :: like Liz :: needed to leave. After she didn’t … she blacked out. She remembers being “thrown out” of the lodge after almost everyone else had cleared out. Laurie is disoriented and takes a bucket of water up the nose. There’s mud caked all over her eyes and she’s a bit freaked.

Along comes Laura Tucker. She wipes the mud off of Laurie’s eyes and they wrap up in a blanket together for a moment because by now it’s getting cold. Stephen Ray is laying right of front of the ladies :: looking scary horrible and not responding. Laura {again … being such nice lady} tells Laurie to go to Stephen Ray. Laurie does. Stephen’s hands feel dead. Laurie stays with Stephen until the paramedics haul him off to the helicopter.

Laurie wishes that she would have saved Liz. Laurie thinks saving Liz was much more a Laurie move than not saving Liz.  But whatever :: I wish I would have gone to the Harmonic Wealth Weekend held in Chicago July of 2009 and hit James Ray over the head with a chair … but I didn’t. I wish I had started writing about James Ray a year earlier … but I hadn’t. These horrors not my fault either. Only one person could have prevented these deaths … and he didn’t.

On cross Mr. Li managed to get Laurie to say :: “I was there to follow the program. I’d paid enormous piles to be there.” So that was helpful. He tried to “impeach” Ms. Gennari and show her as a liar. I’m not sure how that makes sense … because half-a-dozen witnesses have already testified to the same basic fact pattern with very little variance. She’s obviously not a liar. And the most damaging part of her testimony was her hindsight self-awareness :: a non-factual issue unpossible to impeach :: which Mr. Li continually drew attention to by asking Laurie to compare her testimony to her original police interviews … only the tone had changed.

Li’s questions allowed Ms. Polk to ask Laurie Gennari directly about how and why her opinions about Mr. Ray have changed. Laurie explained the mind manipulation about as well as it can be explained … and it was horrible for James Ray. Thanks to yet another useless cross for opening it up.

[ Laurie Gennari’s testimony live blog archive :: {March 18th} {March 22nd} ]

>> bleep bloop

The Salty Droid is blogging the trial in real time on the twitters. Except for …

  • the spam
  • the censorship
  • the rampant vapidity of most users
  • the lack of presentation options
  • the constant technical fails
  • the non-searchable “archives”
  • the incessant spewing of con men and murderers

… twitter is great fun.

If you liked AOL :: you’ll love u some twitter.

Anywayz :: new plan …

Live blogging transferred from Twitter to the blog at the end of each day. Those posts :: like this one :: will continue to grow as supporting materials and elaboration are necessary.

The bulk of the writing on this page will now be reserved for painting the broad-strokes of this horror. Discussion of the individual days :: witnesses :: and trial shenanigans :: will be moved to the live blogging pages. Please try to contribute in the comments along a similar fashion. Big stuff here :: specific stuff there. That should improve things :: right now this page is confusing to follow even for all knowing fake robots.

Please continue with {or increase} your excellent contributions {but spread them around}.

This site has become an important record of something important … and I’m proud to be 20% of why it’s so great.

>> bleep bleep


Live Trial Coverage Archive

938 thoughts on “James Arthur Ray Trial Updates”

  1. Wow, you really spend your time and talents this way? It’s so biased and only certain truth is being brought out to highlight your argument.
    Do you not remember the words of Jesus who said, as you sow, so shall ye reap. Not religious? well turn to any belief system, including atheist, and a truth is agreed on. ‘What you put out into the world, will return to you’.
    Meanwhile, you add more hatred to the world. Try being objective and state the truth only, leave all your hateful hurts to yourself.

    1. @Jill,…Is there something you feel we are missing? In your view, what ray of sunshine did Ray shed on the world? As I stated before, What you do, you own. Ray will be owning quite a bit, sooner or later.

      As you stated,‘What you put out into the world, will return to you’. We are all waiting for the ‘return’ to find Ray. Karma, a wonderful thing!

    2. @Jill, We are just watching what Ray put into the world return to him. The positive aspect of it is that then he and perhaps others like him will not be able to swindle and sicken/kill other nice people. This trial is about the world becoming a better place for all.

      1. @jamo, Absolutely agree and its only a matter of time before his sick brother in Australia gets the same treatment too. These people have no right to stake their claim on being better than anyone else nor do they have a right to tell people what they should be doing in their own lives when it has been proven beyond a shadow of doubt that they themselves lead very dishonest lives. I personally saw one of these people snogging another employee right after standing up in his seminar and saying what a wonderful person his wife was. These people use power to manipulate others to gain sexual, financial and emotional advantages which is nothing but evil and it will be judged as evil.

    3. @Jill, I just can’t agree that we always get what you we put out. Maybe in the afterlife, but definitely not here on earth. Many criminals and horrible human beings have lots of friends, incredible fun,world travel, respect from their communities, luxurious creature comforts,and get away with bad behavior all their lives. On the other hand, a sweet 90-year-old lady who has lead a truly impeccable life; has given donations to her church or a charity,even though she wasn’t wealthy,rarely thought ill of another person, was caring and loving toward her family, and known for doing so many wonderful things for people is unmercifully bludgeoned to death one night while sleeping, by a psychopath who breaks in through a window of her house after jumping off a railway car….(google railway killer)

      I do not believe hating james ray’s evil deeds is wrong. Quite the opposite. Blogs like this one are kind of a grass roots movement that exposes scammers and scammers who kill. Who can say that foul-mouthed little robots aren’t saintly in their own right?

      1. @Jean D, Agreed. I hope & pray that the justice given to James Ray will be an example, so that nobody else can be so reckless with people’s lives.

      2. @Jean D,

        I don’t believe it either. What about little kids who die of cancer? You can’t tell me that they did anything to deserve that.

        What about all the people who have died in earthquakes and tsunamis? Why did they die and not somebody else?

        Life isn’t fair. But Mr. Salty and the Yavapai County DA are trying to make it a little more fair.

      3. @Jean D,

        That’s the big central lie of the LoA – that the *universe organizes everything* so we get what we put out. But as always, the proponents of it also have a cut off point. The victims died because it was right for them to die, but Ray is in court because the legal system doesn’t understand how the universe works.

    4. @Jill, You seem to know the secrets to life and how to teach them to others. Maybe you should become a guru.

      1. @scammed,…While I can’t be sure, I believe Jill has left the building, not wishing to have an adult exchange of information and opinions. Very rude, to ‘hit and run’ like that.

  2. Truc Do looked a little rough at the defense table today — bags under her eyes, etc. Looks like she hasn’t been getting much sleep. I will restrain any temptation to speculate on possible causation.

    1. @jamo,

      Truc did look a little crispy around the edges, didn’t she? Actually, I think she makes for a better prosecutor than defense attorney (just ask Phil Spector) still she’s the best thing Dirtbag Ray has going for him.

      She’s a freakin’ machine the way she fires her line of questioning. I sometimes wish she was lined up against her bastard client.

      I’m looking forward to see who goes after the firekeepers and owners. My bet is that Kelly will be loaded for bear cross examining Michael Hamilton and Ted Mercer. Whereas the Trucster will likely take on the ladies.

      Place your bets…

      1. @Jack Flash, i have been thinking Truc looks beat too. Dont know that 6 momths in Verde Valley with this crappy vase is what she had in mind when she took the job. Looks to me as though Kelly beats on the women and Truc works over the men at least so far. Not sure what Li is there for? Havent seen him since he Dennis M refused to save his life

      2. @Jack Flash, Yes Truc is quite the machine with her questioning. However I don’t know how great that plays to the jury as it comes across a little too slick and manipulative. Then again all lawyer styles look better when you are on the side of truth as opposed to trying to get a guilty-as-sin dirtbag off. I agree she is the best thing the scumbag has going for him. For that reason I prefer watching Kelly and Li trip-up when rolling their dice with the witnesses.

  3. Hooray! Smackdown on motions by the defense to file for mistrial and then for a recess to protest (read:whine) to a higher court about the judge’s rulings this morning about allowing testimony from the Mercers and the Hamiltons.

    God, those boys on the defense team can whine! Allllll morning I felt like I was watching two little brats (Li and Kelly) having temper tantrums because they could’t have their own way. The contrast between the way the defense argues their positions when the jury isn’t there and the prosecution is marked. I really feel like I’m watching mature adults (guess who) on one side and whiney little brats stomping their feet and holding their breath on the other. Is this normal? Salty? Anybody else with courtroom experience? It’s kind of embarrassing to see grown men act so immaturely. When I occasionally tune into truTV and catch a bit of the Casey trial, those attorneys don’t seem to act that way.

    1. @scammed,

      Apparently the idea of not winning has the defense threatening to take their ball and bat and go home.

      I am glad to see that the teacher (Darrow) isn’t accepting their excuse as to why they didn’t do their homework. Next time try covering ALL of your bases and interviewing the witnesses. You do have nights and weekends.

      Doesn’t this case remind you of The Tortoise and the Hare? Slow and steady wins the race.

  4. Whee! YET another example of the defense losing its temper. Li could barely control his anger on voir dire and really overstepped his bounds. So unattractive and I’m hoping it looks as bad to the jury as it looked to me.

  5. I agree scammed, truly unprofessional conduct on the part of Ray’s defense team. They also stated they could not represent Mr Ray under these conditions. I can’t win, therefore, I will not play.

    Wonderful, this live without edit, and look to Mr Li this afternoon to once again insult the witness and the jury through attacks on credibility.

  6. Defense: “A gate has been opened that we did not anticipate.” Yeah, the gate of TRUTH!

    1. @Kalista7, Yes. The defense surprised everybody with this “poison” theory. When they did that the evidence about the insane heat, of which prior event testimony is necessary, had to be allowed otherwise it would not be fair.

      I thought Ted did a good job. He was slow out of the gate, but I warmed to him as his testimony progressed, as he started getting better at limiting himself to the questions asked.

      His big bombshell — that Ray called for 100 rocks, as opposed to 25 for all other leaders of prior lodges, appeared at the most opportune moment — right at the end. Very powerful testimony. Chalk-up another one for the prosecution.

    1. @Dancing Bubba,

      Wow, I had forgotten about that article. I left two comments more than a year ago, and they’re still there. That one poster really pissed me off–“Namaste”–whatever.

  7. Pingback: » BrAndy Full On
  8. A Sweat Lodge is not a Kiva, a Kiva is not a Sweat Lodge.

    Webster’s defines Kiva as a Pueblo Indian ceremonial structure that is usually round and partly underground.

    Usually a pueblo had at least one special subterranean community pithouse — a kiva, sometimes up to 60 feet in diameter. Most were entered through a hole in the roof. A stone bench for sitting lined the perimeter. There was a hole in the floor — now called a sipapu — symbolizing the people’s connection from birth with Mother Earth. Near the center was a fireplace. Ventilator shafts on the sides made the kiva more livable.

    I don’t understand why they keep referring to a “kiva” as being what Angel Vally built for JRI, instead of calling it a sweat lodge.

    1. @Omikse,

      Yes, that drives me nuts, too. My experience of a kiva was the very solid subterranean room that you accessed through a hole in the roof down a ladder. Very different than a sweat lodge.

      Just another instance where they don’t know what they are talking about.

      1. @White Rabbit, I guess it all boils down to trying to look like you know what you are talking about, when in reality, you don’t. People like the use of some words, it makes them look intelligent, people are in awe of them and they must know what they are talking about. After all, Ray does the same thing, but it makes me nuts. Common sense isn’t anymore, but I expected better from attorneys.

        1. Okay…we have gone from the term ‘sweat lodge’ to ‘kiva’..perhaps tomorrow the defense can use the term ‘igloo’. Since all three are round and all three have one door, the terminology, according to the defense, would be the same.

    1. @jamo, YES…everyone knows that vegans can’t make good choices, are slow in their thought process. It was the vegetables!! ( wait, were the vegetables organic?!)

    2. @jamo, Except that James Ray announced from the outset that he wanted them eating a vegetarian diet because he wanted them to be “off balance.” Ray does not advocate vegetarian diets because they can make you ungrounded and he wanted them to become ungrounded. He actually said this… out loud. So I was a little surprised to see Li bring that up.

      Some people do great on vegetarian diets. My husband is one. If I ate a diet like that, especially with that kind of energy output and lack of sleep, I’d have been confessing to the Kennedy assassination a day or two in. Some of us really don’t do well without some animal protein.

      1. @LaVaughn, I think the implication the defense was trying to make was a broad generalization that Angel Valley was culpable by way of their food offered at the Spiritual Warrior event, not that Ray had anything to do with the lack of ‘good’ choices made by the participants. I love meat, I have tried ‘vegan’ and it is difficult until your body becomes use to it. I would not like to try ‘vegan’ while I was under alot of stress. Ray tried to control everything, with only minimum knowledge, and as we all know, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And Ray knew just enough to be dangerous.

        1. @Omikse,

          The problem for the defense in that regard is that James dictates the diet both at Spiritual Warrior and Practical Mysticism. So the place where the event is held actually takes direction from James on what they serve.

        2. @Omikse, You write:

          “I think the implication the defense was trying to make was a broad generalization that Angel Valley was culpable by way of their food offered at the Spiritual Warrior event, not that Ray had anything to do with the lack of ‘good’ choices made by the participants.”

          The problem is that the jury has already heard Ray say, in his recorded introduction to this seminar, that HE wanted them eating a vegetarian diet, specifically because he wanted them “ungrounded” and “off balance.” So if he’s trying to make Angel Valley culpable he just made James Ray even more culpable.

          1. @LaVaughn, & White Rabbit..The defense must be sniffing something for them to bring up the vegetarian diet, and linking only Angel Valley to the food. Mr.Li made special note to say that someone eating vegetarian would be slow in making good choices, and I believe the words ‘off balance’ may have been used…..if Ray used the terms ‘ungrounded’ and ‘off balance’…my question is, why would the defense go back there??? I guess we will find out when the Hamiltons’ speak.

  9. so, now the defense team is focused on the ‘wood’ as being the issue in the deaths and illness that transpired at the Ray death lodge. The wood was burned about 50 feet away from the lodge itself, no wood was brought into the lodge, only the hot stones.( remember, the wood was burned to heat the stones, so the wood was consumed outside the lodge by virtue of it being burned to heat the stones, turning to ash) The hot stones alone entered the lodge. In testimony it was stated that while the smoke from the fire swirled around, it did not enter the lodge. How were people, who died of extreme heat, overcome by the use of burning ‘construction’ wood, that may have been laying around on Angle Valley property for years? Why, then were not more people affected by the ‘bad wood’? In Native ceremony, ‘construction’ wood is never used. Wood must be clean, free of nails and all manor of contaminates ie. paint, wood stain etc.. So, at the very worst, Angel Valley did/does not know what they profess to know about a sweat lodge, any more than Ray. Burning ‘construction’ wood never entered the closed lodge, no fumes from that wood were inhaled or ingested by anyone inside the lodge. The fire keeper, Mercer, was not affected by the burning wood. He was in closer contact with the wood than anyone inside the lodge. I don’t see how the wood plays any part in what happened inside the lodge.

  10. Li characterized the post sweat lodge photos of 2007 like they were photos of a picnic. People were having a great time and were enjoying rolling around in the mud.

    To me the photos were actually quite disturbing.

    1. @jamo,
      I agree. It was disturbing to see the dramatic “smiles” on some as they stood among the people in distress, as if they did not exist. How could a person appear so happy while others were in need of help? WOW!!!!

      1. @trudee,

        It is so amazing to watch how the defense manipulates information. While Li shows Ted Mercer photographs of people smiling; as Ms. Polk pointed out, there were plenty around them on the ground, maybe not dying, but feeling like they wanted to.

        As Li grilled Ted as to how long after the sweat lodge the shots were taken, he somehow leaves out the part that people were bailing from that thing as far back as the first round. Therefore, some had been out for possibly as long as two hours before being photographed. And as opposed to the ones who were not vertical, the smiling faces probably came out early and were underdone…or were more favorably placed in the lodge.

        Interestingly, in none of the exhibits do you find any shots of JRI people. No Megan, no Josh, no Greg Hartle…no James. It was James’s event and wouldn’t you think that someone would want a picture of the head honcho? If he were there, would he not show up in a frame somewhere?

        1. @White Rabbit,

          You are right about the “missing” JR photos. You would think participants would enjoy a little reminder to take home to show what their $10,000 vacation was like. So creepy.

    2. @jamo, Yay for Shiela! She indicated on the picture the defense showed with the woman in a bikini striking a pose, in the background were actually people lying down looking quite ill. Interesting the defense didn’t point that out.

      Gosh, it seems like the defense is being very disrespectful towards the Judge, and they definitely appear to be out of rapport with him. I wonder what the new thing is that they’re trying to submit? Ms. Polk asked if she could get it by 8pm, and the defense said they’re still working on it, and they would “try.” They even gave an excuse to the Judge, who wanted it asap.

      1. @Omikse,

        I had some first hand experience with the ants at Angel Valley when I went on the Vision Quest. After the Samauri Game we were led to our spots in the dark. I made my circle and sometime the next morning I realized I wasn’t alone. I was out there with a thousand of my new best friends. I was parked right on an anthill.

        In that intimate setting we got to know each other’s habits. One good thing about ants is that they are not active at night. They go back to their little ant farm and don’t come out again until it warms up the next day. Thankfully they are not early risers. I only had to deal with them during the brighter daylight hours for the full day I was out and they weren’t up yet when I left the next day.

        With that information in mind I would like to revisit Mr. Li’s photos where he claims there are no ants. I would like a verified date and time stamp. If the police or the person who took the photos was up early, the ants may very well not have been active yet. It does not “prove” that Angel Valley had poisons all over the soil to keep insects away. That is city boy rationale. All bugs are not out to get you all of the time. Learn the habits of the creatures you are using as a reference.

        1. @White Rabbit, I agree…those ‘ant-free’ pictures were a snap shot of a split second in time. What can not be proven by those pictures is if there were ants there, on the fruit and in the trash can, during the rest of the hours when pictures were not taken. Silly to base insect behavior on just a few photos,( just a few seconds in time, really) and why were the photos taken in the first place , to prove there were no ants there, or to show what was there as far as items left during the chaos that followed the end of Ray’s death lodge?….Mr Li has tantrums, such as claiming he never mentioned just lines “22 and 23” for the detective interview of Mercer, Li tried to claim he went back as far as line 17,…I thought he was going to begin to stomp his little foot and cry…( Li’s mom must be sooo proud!)

          1. @Omikse, The fruit pictures are bullshit. It’s not the lack of ants. It’s the fact that no chopped fruit on earth would look that fresh 24 hours later. If I were the prosecutor I’d be trying to find out if Luis Li was committing deliberate fraud with those photos. I’ve posted the photo here. There’s just no freaking way.

            1. @LaVaughn, well, fraud is a possibility, the ‘FameFrame’ is a fraud perpetrated on the jury, a ‘visual aid’ as to how important Ray thinks he is.( the jury won’t know the ‘FameFrame’ is a fake) The ‘FameFrame’ should have come with a disclaimer. I think the defense is lost, they are trying anything and everything. I question whether they bought the ‘con’ of Ray stating his innocence, and now find themselves up to their eyeballs in deception. I am sure the finger pointing will continue from the defense. And I am equally sure the prosecution will continue to point at only Ray.

  11. The people with the ‘red’ or ‘flushed’ skin…well, that is from steam burns…in a Native lodge women are told NOT to wear bathing suits, and the men to wear a T-shirt and bathing trunks or shorts, ( be mindful that zippers will get hot)…the more you cover up, the less likely you are to get burned. I know it doesn’t sound right, that in a sweat lodge it is better to cover up, but it is. Mr Li is mistaken, again.

    1. @Omikse,

      No women including myself has ever worn a bathing suit to a lodge. I wear a loose fitting flannel dress and take in a gigantic bath sheet towel. In the screaming hot lodges I cover up as much as possible.

      Once again if JAR was properly trained he would have instructed the people on what’s best to wear in the lodge.

      @ Kalista: I think I heard Kelly say the DT was filing a motion to have the prosecution team replaced at the trial. He said it in a most casual way as if he didn’t want anyone else to hear it. I’m even doubting that I heard it myself.
      It’s the DT’s way I suppose to stop the momentum that the prosecution is gaining, just like in any basketball game. It’s a strategy. I think they’re grasping at straws. It seems the *toxic* gambit isn’t working very well.

      1. @Rubies, yes, exactly…no bathing suits allowed, I was taught to always wear a long skirt, and a top with sleeves…always have a large bath towel, cover up…if you need to, lie down on your side, never on your back or stomach. We have cedar on the floor inside the lodge, a hand full, bunched up and held in front of your nose/mouth makes the air cooler to breath. Ray told them nothing, nothing useful whatsoever, that lodge was being driven by ego and arrogance with a heafty dose of ignorance.

      2. @Rubies, If you heard correctly, that is crazy! Isn’t that something the Judge should decide?? I’m constantly amazed at how arrogant, unprofessional and immature the DT is…. not to mention how disrespectful they are to the Judge.

      3. @Rubies, I also thought I heard that off the cuff remark, I equate it to kids saying that they are going to ‘tell’ on you. A cheap shot, no doubt mumbled, to slow the prosecution down, to get the proceedings off track. When you have no defense, you try to ruin your opponents momentum. Tacky tactics, and not at all becoming in a court of law.

        1. @Omikse,

          Well, there’s a saying: If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have nothing on your side, pound the table.

            1. I would also like to mention the display of temper that Mr. Li does. He takes his legal pad, or note book binder, and tosses it onto the defense table when fails to make a point, or is spoken to in a disciplinary fashion by the judge. I have seen this a few times, it is subtle, and not loud, but he does do it. It makes me think of what my mother would say to me if I were to haphazardly toss whatever was in my hands onto a table or chair ( something I would do out of exasperation ) She would say to me, “Pick that up and place it down, correctly.”….I think Mr. Li needs etiquette lessons.

  12. All the excuses from Ray’s defense… unbelievable. For example, that Ray couldn’t foresee the risks of the SL. Yet he was able to think ahead and require that participants sign-off on an expansive release which specifically mentioned all the serious dangers to be encountered at the seminar.


    1. @LarryG, Nice to see someone else make the corralation…..how can you say you didn’t know it was dangerous,,,,then have the particpant sign a waiver stating it is dangerous??????? DUH!!!!!!!!!

      1. @Colleen’s brother-in-law, ..were participants signing a waiver in ’07 and ’08 that had the death clause included at those times?…I don’t ever remember hearing about the verbiage in those previous waivers.

        1. @Omikse, Im sure he has used the same waiver since the first time he was sued…I know the death clause was discussed by salty when this all started. Once again…THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME AND THOUGHTS…we miss our sister

  13. Does anyone here know if any ‘après-lodge’ photos were taken of Ray?…I find it odd that with all these photos of people taken just after the completion of the lodge,some smiling, some in obvious distress, Ray is nowhere to be seen. He is not shown telling some what a good job they did, how proud they should be, and ‘I knew you could do it’. He is not shown as having compassion for those on the ground, in the mud, for those vomiting, in pain or for those simply overwhelmed. Where are those photos of Ray?…Did he just ‘book-it’, take the money and run. Last event of the retreat, so he was now ‘off the clock’? Really??, where did little Jimmy go? No ‘après-lodge’ photos of Ray from ’07, ’08, ’09, I wonder why…..

    1. @Omikse,

      Jimmy boy was off in his cabin in his undershorts eating lunch–which was where the detectives found him when they arrived.
      He was irritated at being disturbed at his lunch and told the detectives to see Josh for answers to their questions.
      So in essence he was completely unavailable, though on the premises, even to the police in the aftermath.
      (This is from the witness interview transcripts taken shortly after the 2009 event)

      1. @Stoic, yes, they found him in his cabin, in his undershorts…I remember this from over a year ago. I guess what I was trying to ask, and I guess the answer is…Ray was not interested in the welfare of the ‘little people’ who paid him $10,000. Ray was paid, and had performed his ‘disservice’, no sense in hanging around…besides he needed to clean up,take his pills, and have a light supper. “He was irritated at being disturbed at his lunch”….Steroids will make you a touch grumpy…

  14. I think yesterday’s testimony was very damaging to the defense. Seeing those disturbing photos of reddened, prostrate folks laying in the mud along with the testimony of the severity of the injuries in ’07 and ’08, combined with the fact that Ted never saw anything like that in non-Ray sweat lodges makes for a powerful case for the prosecution.

  15. So far the jury has heard from participants who survived the deadly event, from doctors, medical examiners, Ray’s employees and exerpts from his speeches and writings. The defense has made the case that this was a tragic accident, and participants knew what they were getting into, and signed waivers acknowledging the risks.

    The participants agreed that they had signed the waivers saying they knew risks, but surely didn’t think that the experience could kill them. The survivors told the jury that Ray never physically prevented them from leaving the death lodge but that his words and judgment had an enormous influence on them. It’s clear that James Ray did not have the medical training nor did he provide such staff to deal with potential complications. He also never apprenticed or had the authorization of Native Americans to conduct their sacred ceremony.

    In the last week, Ray and his defense are making a new pitch; that these tragic deaths were the result of poisoning. The wood used to heat the lava stones was processed and laden with chemicals; and the sweat lodge coverings were stored in a shed that also contained rat poison. This tragedy James Ray says, is the Retreat Centers fault.

    Medical examiners said the victims died from heat stroke, but Ray’s attorneys asked them if the victims had died from some acute poisoning could the autopsy findings be the same, and the experts said perhaps some of the findings could overlap.

    This is what we do in American jurisprudence. If you get caught doing something wrong, hire the best lawyers and point the finger of blame at someone else. We live in a litigious society where what’s right and wrong is decided in courtrooms. Morality has become defined as whatever you can get away with. If Ray’s lawyers can sow seeds of doubt in even one juror’s mind, as to how and why these victims died, they could find him not guilty as charged.

    Ray and his lawyers are skilled at neurolinguistic programming (NLP), which means they are artists at persuasion. They know how to use language to change people’s thinking and behavior. I’m hoping the jury can see that what James Ray did was morally and legally reprehensible. James Arthur Ray made promises and took risks that exceeded his capacity and training, and it resulted in the deaths of 3 people…that’s wrong and we ought to stand up in community and say it’s unacceptable.

    1. @Carl Hammerschlag MD,

      Okay…it’s unacceptable. (The line forms behind me.)

      I am hoping that the words :”is that correct?” and “correct” can be deemed a leading question.

  16. Is Ray’s defense team really as ignorant as they seem? Granted, not everyone grew up in the country like some of us, but so far these attorneys have demonstrated absolutely no understanding of:

    dirt,mud,spiders,ants,rats,flies,poisons,rocks,bonfires,tents, camping,sliced fruit,high temperatures,hot water, steam,red skin,burned skin,sweating,overheating,bathing suits,life in a trailer,manual labor, poisons,pump houses,deserts,Arizona,Jimmy Buffet,Native American ceremonies,boots,hats,Wranglers, or fence posts.

    1. @Jean D,

      Add to the list:

      ORGANIC gardening
      Living holistically
      Living in cooperation with Nature
      Vegetarian diets
      Being in Silence

      1. @White Rabbit, @Goldie @Omikse And no matter how many times they use the word Howdy they won’t be any more convincing or endearing to the jurors. You can’t fake being down-to-earth or knowledgeable about certain things. Case in point,what the hell was that picture of a wooden kiva supposed to represent? The sweat trap’s “kiva shape” was formed with bent branches,it was not a building. I swear these attorneys are using Lee Kuan Major as a legal consultant. Hope so.

        1. @Jean D,…YES!…he must be working for the defense! The defense IS beginning to sound like the ‘meandering-mindless-musings’ of the not-so-great Lee Kuan!..


          1. @Omikse, LK is posting the same old stuff on news articles under at least these 3 monikers: Nancy Terrano,George Reynolds,Jason D.

            Li rhymes with Lee.

            1. Jean D….I have noticed LK posting on cnn a few times. He is still suffering from SSDD. I do admit that a few of the defense theories sound alot like the old hash LK use to sling.

              The similarities are striking, they both ignore the facts, they both believe Ray, they both insult the intelligence of normal people, they both have hissy-fits, their theories both smell and draw flies…OH,( smack to the forehead!!) that’s where the flies went, to the stinky defense! I rest my case.

  17. I am horrified that during a lodge, in what should be a Sacred Ceremony, when asked about using the bathroom Ray told them to ‘go where you are’. I can not express how sad I feel for those people, all of them, to be treated so badly, to be so humiliated, to be used in such an inhuman way. Words can not do the indignity justice.

    1. @Omikse,

      Then JAR yells at someone for opening the back of the lodge to escape his death trap and calls THAT sacrilege.

      I can’t tell you how sad today’s testimony was from Deborah Mercer. She was the angel in Angel Valley for what she did. Even talking back to the *great* JAR.

      Oh and LaVaughn, JAR did say this: “It’s a good day to die” to which Deborah said “It’s a good day to LIVE”.

      I said in many posts above this one that Kirby Brown was a good friend of my friend. My friend told me that before Kirby headed down to the seminar, she had stayed with her for a few days. My friend taught her a couple of prayer songs for the lodge. I often wonder if Kirby was singing those to herself as she died. It breaks my heart to think of this.

      1. @Rubies, I am so saddened with the fact that these people, and a lot of others, will walk away with the belief that this was in any shape a Native ceremony. What Ray did in his death lodge was a poor bastardization of what a true sweat lodge really is, how it is done, and the purpose behind it. It’s like the ‘Samurai game’…what basis does standing with your arms outstretched holding books, until you no longer can, have to do with a Samurai belief? What Ray did was pretend to be ‘god’, he wanted total control. Now Ray is on the hot seat, and rather than continue to profess control, fingers are being pointed everywhere. A Native saying is that by pointing to someone else, you have three fingers from your own hand pointing back at yourself.

        Again, Native Sweat Lodges are not a feat of endurance, they are not designed to humiliate or debase others. They are for prayer, they are for sacrifice, they are Sacred. From the very beginning a lodge is assembled with prayers and offerings. The ‘Grandfathers’, the stones, are gathered by those wishing to participate in the lodge. Prayers are offered at the fire, it is a time to reflect on the purpose in your heart. You enter the lodge on hands and knees as a way to humble yourself before all. The Lodge Keeper is the one who facilitates all inside the lodge. He is responsible for the construction of the lodge. The Fire keeper does what the Lodge Keeper requests, from the number of stones needed, to the water to sprinkle on them. The Lodge Keeper is a servant of the people, not the ‘Alpha and the Omega’ , but the servant. Ray knew nothing of these Traditions, he did as he pleased with no knowledge.

    2. @Omikse,I really believe most people by now realize Ray’s sweat trap was a misrepresentation of a sweat lodge which he had designed to fulfill a sick desire for power over people’s lives. About LK: It would be absolutely wonderful if Ray’s defense actually accepted his suggestions and viewpoints as representative of an average citizen/juror. Remember the many times LK bragged how he had “written to James Ray and his attorneys with suggestions and support”? What poetic justice if those lawyers actually based their strategies on the opinions of the internet’s craziest oldest troll!

      1. @Jean D, … I, too, really wonder about LK and his wild theories and if he did send them to ‘Team Ray’…some of their wild ramblings sound almost word-for-word like the rantings and ravings of old LK. ( Honestly, LK is like gum on the bottom of your shoe, sometimes your just stuck with him.)

          1. @Dancing Bubba,…Having had the misfortune of reading the barkings and yappings of LK, you have a definate and valid point…dog poop it is! ( sad, I like dogs..)

  18. Check out his daddy. This has been going on since he was a kid. Family business. A Gordon Ray

    1. @Bob, At wwww.oscn.net (free public data base) you can look up the Rays’ court records under Court Dockets. Just click Search Dockets then enter their names under the Tulsa Courts link. Arthur Gordon and Joyce Elaine are James Arthur’s parents,Jon is his brother. ALL of them,including James, lost their houses in 1985 and 1986. James’ divorce from Mariellen (a female bodybuilder) was in 1986,also. A. Gordon Ray and Joyce supposedly still own property there and are reputed to be slumlords. From 2005-07 you can see where they sued 5 of their tenants. James’ records are under James A. Ray. Didn’t someone say James had a wife or girlfriend named Natacha? There’s a 2002 “Foreign Judgment” for a James Ray and a Natacha Ray. Is this the same James Ray?

      (Note: there’s another woman named Joyce Elaine Ray listed in Tulsa Dockets. She is NOT James’ mother as she is listed as African American and younger.)

    1. @Anne, I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know how strong this allegation is by the defense. What I see is that the defense was notified about this in Nov 2010 — plenty of time before hand, so it may be a lot of smoke and mirrors.

      It will be sick if Ray gets off because of this. If he does it is only because he had enough money to hire these asshole lawyers. And the sick part about that is all that money came from scamming, abusing and killing people.

      1. @jamo, Isnt this case against James Ray and his actions or lack thereof? How does the construction of the sweat lodge have anything to do with James Rays actions towards the people who entrusted him with their life and who died on his watch? It was his responsibility to ensure that everything used including the sweat lodge were to the specifications adequate to ensure the safety and benefit of those he was leading. He charged the ludicrious fee, he made the promises, he manipulated them to partake, he was responsible for their lives, surely.

  19. Heartsick. The new defense mistrial motion has merit according to Beth Karras on In Session. She seems to think there’s a strong possibility of a mistrial with prejudice (or something like that) which means Deathray would have no retrial and no criminal charges. I am sick at the thought of Deathray getting off this way.

    The issue seems to revolve around an expert’s report that was not turned over to the defense. Something about the construction of the deathlodge being faulty. Not sure of the details. OMG. Devastating.

  20. I think I’m going to have to turn commenting off on this post. It’s a bit much for the server :: and for many people’s connection and browser config. Please please please comment on the most recent trial post instead …


    … or better yet … comment on one of the older ones that I mass posted last week. Google doesn’t like articles without clicks or comments … so go and make yourselves useful.

  21. It’s all spiritual mumbo jumbo but to prosecute a man because there were three weaklings in the bunch is wrong.

    To prosecute Ray would be like prosecuting a golf course because three unhealthy people had heart attacks and died on the 18th green from walking when their fat butts should have been in a cart or at home.

    Hundreds of thousands of people have died in medical care without getting any consideration at all from the courts.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think Ray is a wacko but I don’t think we can blame him or the idiots who died, we can blame the society that pushes people to take such foolish measures. We can blame YOU just as much as we can blame Ray.

    Almost every American death is a result of mindless consumerism. Thank God for accidents, the only righteous way to die. Die of cancer you die of stupidity just like dying in a sweat shack.

    1. @David ::

      A quote from your empty forum …

      “Outside of this forum there simply is no truth in regards to health and healing. If this offends you, you are not ready for the truth. Its really very simple and rational, if any form of modern western or alternative medicine was involved with the truth they would be involved with cures and they are not. They are only interested in keeping the information in this forum locked away.”

      Oh noes! All of your magics has been locked away by the cruel bad peoples! Maybe you should go back over there and sit with it … would hate for your bullshit to get lonely.

  22. David,

    Blaming victims for a crime is the sign of a disgusting, immature and extremely ignorant individual.

    You clearly no know nothing of this case and sound like you only got your information from scandalous hustling websites by The Secret people.

    Educate yourself before posting rubbish.

    1. @Chilon~Ephor,

      Don’t you just lerv the way Death Ray apologists now pretend to disown him, hoping to sound neutral? Then they pretend they’re only bothering to comment because of some other interest. Usually it’s a complaint about overzealous prosecutors wasting public money. In this case, the “evils of the medical profession”, of all things, has motivated the comment.

  23. @SD and Chilon~Ephor,

    Every person reading this blog is a victim. No one knows the truth, you only know what you are told. Some of you know what Fox wants you to know, some of you know what CNN want you to know and the two are not the same.

    Some of you refer to people with cancer as “victims” of cancer which comes from consumerism. As consumers, most of you will blame the cancer when it is the failure of the medical industry that causes people to die from cancer.

    Getting into a sweat lodge is stupid but stupid is as stupid does. People are looking for answers, at least the honest stupid people are. They realize they aren’t getting the answers from Google or from Blogs like this so what to do they do, they get caught up in more stupidity.

    If Ray locked the door on people wanting out he will pay. If people died because they were not healthy enough to endure the freak show than isn’t Ray’s fault.

    When people die of cancer, it isn’t cancer’s fault it’s stupidity’s fault.

    I don’t spend time searching for this kind of nonsense, the link to this blog was sent to me and I couldn’t help but give you readers tiny touch of truth, something you rarely see on Google or the internet.

    Cheers, no go back to your one sided argument and revel in your own ignorance SD and Chilon~Ephor. I hear ignorance is bliss, enjoy it while it last.

  24. What is it about the truth that gets people so upset? Society is built on mindless consumerism and consequently the truth becomes a major irritant.

    I enjoy seeing people squirm at the site of the truth. Gosh, if you can’t apply your CNN or Fox knowledge you simple don’t have a dispute just some nasty name calling or derogatory remarks.

    My cousin is an oncologist and his patients die god awful deaths due to his cancer treatments and no one is trying to hang him out to dry. Burn Ray at the stake, but don’t pretend his shenanigans aren’t being perpetrated on mindless consumers every day with complete immunity by respected “professionals”.

    :) Cheers to all of you who are more angry at me than at Ray.

    1. @David ::

      Don’t pretend like we care what you say … because we do not. What you call truth … I call piss in the wind.

      So it goes …

      My regards to your cousin. Too bad none of your mother’s children are as accomplished.

    2. @David,

      You would complement James Ray perfectly–you should give him a call about partnering up! You clearly display similar sociopathic tendencies–a near complete lack of empathy for others and an arrogance that is mildly nauseating. In your overzealous ravings about consumerism and stupidity, you’ve completely lost sight of the real, live human beings behind the victim label you are so disdainful of. People are human, people make mistakes, people do things every day that I don’t approve of (and obviously YOU don’t). Where is that perfect person that is worthy of our compassion and empathy? Do we pass judgement on all the rest of them until we find the few that we deem worthy to bestow our precious approval? And who are WE to pass such judgement?

      I love and care about people in my life who very imperfect (including myself–big time!) and who sometimes take actions or believe in things that make me shake my head in dismay or frustration. Are they less worthy of my love and affection? If something happens to them, do I tell them to fuck off, that they’re stupid and brought it on themselves? Ignorance can be irritating, but 1-that doesn’t mean we have to lose our compassion for others, and 2-there are a hell of a lot of slimeball con artists out there that swindle very intelligent folks every day. These particular people got taken and if you think you can’t be, you’re exactly the kind of idiot the best con artists are looking for.

      What kind of soulless monster are you? Oh–I know-a James Ray kind of monster, come to think of it.

  25. SD is name calling all you have? Why don’t you pick something of mine that you disagree with and give it your best shot at attempting to dispute my claim or my point. Do you pick your nose and snack while you call people names?

    It’s a blog, show people you can do more than attack.

    1. @David,

      Seriously? You were very kindly asked to STFU. SD has to prove nothing to you. And he doesn’t have to show us anything because we already know who he is.

      There are REAL victims who were hurt or killed and REAL families grieving for them. It’s not a game or an idiotic pissing contest. STFU!

  26. *********Author: what??

    Seriously? You were very kindly asked to STFU. SD has to prove nothing to you. And he doesn’t have to show us anything because we already know who he is.

    There are REAL victims who were hurt or killed and REAL families grieving for them. It’s not a game or an idiotic pissing contest. STFU!**********

    @what??- Wrong it is a game and it is worse than an idiotic pissing contest and just because you don’t like the truth doesn’t mean you have the authority to tell people their opinions do not count and to STFU. You keep playing the idiotic game and I am going to keep trying to change the rules of your game.

    People die of cancer because they do not know any better. People suffer from herpes because they don’t know any better. It bugs the hell out of you when I say that because you are playing a game where neither of those two diseases are curable, only because you are told they are not curable because YOUR rules say they are not curable. That’s YOUR game. You will likely die of cancer because YOU do not know any better because of your idiotic game.

    I’m here to tell you that people die in sweat lodges because they don’t know any better. There is no practical use for a sweat lodge, no reason for a person to be in one in the first place but the same goes for cancer and herpes. It’s YOUR “game and idiotic pissing contest” that killed the people in the sweat lodge and killed your friends and family who have died of cancer and who will die of cancer. Instead of pointing fingers at others and telling people who share the truth to “STFU” try thinking for a change. Quit waiting for the rule makers of your game to tell you how to think.

    Every one is responsible for those who die of cancer, scratch herpes or die in sweat lodges. Crucify the ONE individual and NOTHING changes.

    I seriously doubt anyone reading this blog has ever truly lifted a finger to change an injustice. It’s a shame you guys play the game and have your idiotic pissing contest.

    If anyone here truly wants to be part of a change, try discussing the truth instead of flinging insults.

  27. http://www.change.org/petitions/will-medicine-and-science-use-cures-that-cannot-be-patented-no-not-without-your-help

    This is a petition for change.

    The petition has nothing to sell. It simply ask people to stop playing the idiotic pissing contest and game and sign a petition to get SCIENCE, MEDICINE and the GOVERNMENT to utilize CURES that cannot be patented and sold as medicine meaning CURES that are not profitable.

    In layman’s terms it is saying, “I don’t care if the medical industry can’t make a living off of cures, I want them anyway!”.

    By signing the petition you are demanding a change. You are demanding the people responsible for our social structure do what is right. When you do that, there will be no more Randy Rays or whatever his name is.

    It’s my guess that the nasty attackers here will not sign the petition because they are not here to demand justice they are here to see that justice is mislead and bent.

    I doubt anyone here has ever lifted a finger to make a change for the better. Here is your chance. 10 to 1 the comment gets deleted and I get banned before anyone has a chance to think for themselves and sign the petition because I can tell you the creeps attacking the truth here do not want this petition to be viewed.

    It’s your world, you are making it.

    1. @David ::

      This blog is about scammers :: not about you.

      Don’t care about you. Don’t care about what you think. Don’t care about your fucking links. Don’t care about your problems.

      Don’t care.

      This post can’t handle anymore comments {expecially stupid ones} :: so if you leave anymore I’ll delete them.

      You can post here … http://saltydroid.info/super-schlub/ … go ahead and talk yourself blue.

        1. @JeanD ::

          He wasn’t cloaked :: and his web profile is oldish :: so no … not MichelleKaunMinor … just some other idiot.

  28. @David

    Let me see if I am getting this right. You refer to cancer quite often, is it because many if not most of us are going to get cancer and undergo intense radiation and chemotherapy and suffer greatly and die despite the extreme treatment, potentially suffering more than those who died of complications from the sweatlodge?

    Some of us may get lucky and die of an accident or heart attack before we die of cancer but for any of us who die of cancer, who will we blame and attack?

    I agree we have some mixed up priorities and some of our social systems make James Ray look like a saint. If I suffer greatly and die of cancer who will my family blame? I don’t know, never thought about it. God? Doctors? Myself? Society? Government? James Ray?

    1. @nancy,

      Somewhat of an aside, but the guy who they were interviewing, was applying a lot of material from Tony Robbins. The “meeting basic human needs” is directly from Tony, and he just substituted a few of the terms with synonyms.

      Comparing him to Manson might be a bit much (or not), but sadly people willing to exploit the suffering of others follow this blueprint a lot. In a lot of ways, the droid’s entire site is about people who find ways to exploit others who aren’t meeting their needs.

      Whatever you think of Tony’s marketing practices and his god awful association with the syndicate, I think this mat’l in particular is pretty dead on. If you can teach people why they feel their needs aren’t being met and how they can do it on their own, you can do a lot of good. I’ve helped save marriages and lifted people out of depression using it.

      But if you’re a sociopath, why bother with that when you can use it to manipulate people?

    2. A huge chunk of what experts claim as hidden knowledge is usually pretty simple. The secret works. It worked so well for Jay Ray that the murdering SOB ended up getting sucked into a jail full of other murders and thieves and can’t get out even if he tried. He got attracted plain and simple. What would the same “expert” say about the mental indoctrination techniques used by the military of almost any government you care to think of down through the ages. I wonder if somehow through some pathway not only did the SECRET
      work on 9/11/2001 but even more amazing that it might be operating on the stage of world events since then.

  29. I tried posting the link but it wouldn’t let me — I saw this behavior expert on In Session comparing james ray to charles manson!
    you will have to search it on youtube
    “The dangers of gurus – Patrick Wanis PhD TruTV James Ray Trial”

  30. Did I hear Debbie Mercer correctly when she said she RAN to her house to make the 911 phone call and upon returning to the sweat lodge she saw James Ray on his CELL PHONE!?!?! No other cell phone worked there but Death Ray had a direct link to his lawyers??? Oh, maybe he was calling 911! Just an observation!

  31. If a parent tells a child to jump off a cliff – he dies – it is not the parents fault because the small child had a choice

  32. James Arthur Ray should be set free.
    What happened was an accident.
    Everyone there had a choice to stay or leave as they pleased.
    I don’t see this mishap to be planned. No one knew what was going to happen.
    Let him go…

    1. @b said,

      “James Arthur Ray should be set free.
      What happened was an accident.
      Everyone there had a choice to stay or leave as they pleased.”

      So you will be the first lining up to try his next sweat-tent event, I take it?
      To make you a richer and more spiritual person?

      You can find out then for yourself whether it really was an accident or not and how much choice everyone had to stay or leave as they pleased.

      Good luck with the keeping breathing thing, my prediction is that you’re going to need it if you can so easily buy into sympathy for James Ray’s crap.

    2. @b, James Ray was found guilty with a 100% consensus of 12 impartial, unrelated individuals who the defense had a substantial role in interviewing and selecting. He only needed to persuade (1) of them of the slightest possibility that he was not guilty. He was unable to do so even with the relentless backing of some very aggressive hired guns.

      In the face of all that, and with your disconnected-from-reality allegiance, he is either your misplaced hero, your cousin, or a very good reason for you to see a professional counselor.

  33. Mind control victims have no choices. These were not fully functioning adults, they were impaired and manipulated. After not eating, drinking water or sleeping adequately, being ordered around, letting James Ray be God and pretending to be dead for hours freezing on the ground and having their heads shaved. If you think this would not pummel you into submission to give UP YOUR WILL and common sense then you are oblivious to the human psyche and mind control techniques.

    None of this would have happened to well fed, alert, hydrated individuals who had slept for 8 hours.

    This guy belongs in jail for 15 years. He is clearly trained in NLP, hypnosis and suggestion. I watched his videos on his website, he made me sick.

    1. @Kris, Very eloquently stated. I have been the victim of one of the people who appeared in the secret movie and I cannot stress enough just how very dangerous human beings can be when they set their sites on a prize with greedy eyes. Nothing, absolutely nothing is allowed to get in the way of them going psychotically to any greedy end to get that prize. What JR did is a classic example of the techniques that these people use and I have come to believe that as a result of such incredible manipulation they end up suffering a type of psychosis themselves.

      “Psychosis is a mental state caused by psychiatric or organic illness, characterized by a loss of contact with reality and an inability to think rationally. A psychotic person often behaves inappropriately and is incapable of normal social functioning.”

      The level of greed that these people have subscribed to is not normal. And the level of brainwashing they have done to themselves is also not normal. They end up considering themselves super important when in fact they are likely suffering a type of schizophrenia or psychosis. They get in so deep that they lose all sense of respect or feelings for any other person including those closest to them.

      I have found it incredibly dangerous in so many ways and have completely stepped aside from all of it. I now make a point of warning people and explaining my experience in the hope that it helps others see why its just so dangerous to get caught up in. I’ve seen people lose so much out of one persons greed that I simply cannot forgive. The loss of trust and respect is enormous not to mention the financial losses.

      Mind control is evil no matter what way you look at it and should only ever be used by specialists fully trained and in very special circumstances. Not by mindless people with inflated egos and an unquenchable greed.

      1. @behindtheseglasses:

        ‘The level of greed that these people have subscribed to is not normal. And the level of brainwashing they have done to themselves is also not normal. They end up considering themselves super important when in fact they are likely suffering a type of schizophrenia or psychosis. They get in so deep that they lose all sense of respect or feelings for any other person including those closest to them.’

        Oh yeah!

  34. I followed this very closely til was pulled off CNN and now can t find anything. What happened??? Is he free? In jail? Waiting for sentence? If so…when? Does anyone know?
    SD…could u do an update maybe. Thanks everyone. I hope he is locked up for awhile.

    1. @kate,

      As far as I know, they are having a hearing on a defense motion August 16.

      He is free on bail; sentencing is delayed until after the August 16 hearing.

      If I’m wrong about this, somebody please say something. But I think that’s correct.

  35. There is a difference between knowing about the Law Of Attraction and being a Shamen. I know a Chipiwa Native American and he’s been a practicing Healer/Shaman for over 35 years. When I told him about this he said that anyone who claims to be a healer without learning and exeriencing the nature of the physical world and the nature of the Great Spirit for at least 10 years, is not to be trusted. He also told me any Spiritual Leader should only charge for knowledgable service as a teacher, never the spiritual experience of the soul you are teaching. At the end of the conversation he told me, “A man whom deprives the sick/dehydrated of water in a sweat lodge is known in Shamanism as a man of greed, the FIRST rule we learn when becoming healers is to love others before the teachings. Otherwise there is no one to teach.”

  36. If this man was a real Native American than he would have been already put into jail, convicted and sentenced. I don’t know why he’s still hanging on by a thread, he needs to go down!!! As for myself, a Native American from the Rosebud Sioux Tribe in South Dakota, I think that he’s a fake and a wannabe trying to do something that he had no business doing!!! He should have left it up to the real Native Americans to do the ceremony, now look where he is, it’s powerful thing. Not just anyone can do it, not anyone trying to make money off of it. This ceremony is ours!!!

    1. well we’re just getting started. Cause today’s the day. Today’s the day to put your life on the line, and all that you stand for. But you see, I warned you as much as possible in advance. And I even tell ya before you sign up, hey if you’re not willing to do the work

  37. Roll on the 18th November when this fucking piece of shit will hopefully go down for at least 5 years and he will be some hairly hillbilly’s bitch. I hope the judge listens to all the defence witnesses and then tells them all to fuck off. I will personally have a drink in celebration when this scum bag gets sent to the pokey.

    He is still on Twitter the piece of shit doling out his missives. Someone please hack his Twitter and his facebook and his website…

  38. oh and this is what he sent out on one of his tweets

    When someone trys to hurt you, it shows you’re really loved. If you weren’t important to them they wouldn’t waste their time. Think about it

    yeah james my boy what about the people who didn’t make it out of your sweat lodge? You shored did some them some love didn’t you.

    1. @CitizenNoir, Ha Ha predictable, just check it out, everyone of these parasites say and do the same thing when they are exposed.

  39. The whole Ray story is distressing. The complicity of CNN et al is heinous. The ‘anchors’ and ”journalists’ should lock themselves in a room, and not let themselves out, until they have read and understood the above. But unlikely probably: I do believe they are without human heart or substance, and just welded to filthy lucre.

  40. I hardly comment, however I read a few of the comments here The Salty Droid – James Arthur Ray
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  41. With havin so much content and articles do you ever
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  42. I tend not to leave a response, however after looking at a few of the responses
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