Hearts on Fire

... acting like an asshole

James Arthur Ray :: the play … okay?

Tickets are $15,000 :: no refunds … or complaining.

Okay maybe not :: tickets are some other price that won’t tend to make random people on the interwebz exclaim … “you deserve to die!”

But getting to Scotland isn’t easy :: unless you’re Mary Poppins … or god. Fortunately I am :: god that is … not Mary Poppins.

I am god.

Okay maybe not :: but I do have interesting and articulate readers all over the world … including The Scot-lands. It makes me feel quite powerful :: so don’t even come at me or I swear to the magical universe genie … I’ll have your ass theatre reviewed … hard.

Our own @DrGeek attended the show and filed this report with my fake secretary Debbie. She spilled nacho cheese all over it and I had to request a second copy :: because it was most def worth printing … without the cheese.


I wasn’t sure what to expect.

The promotional video promised to take me in to the sweat lodge, and to hear the stories of those who’d survived … and those who hadn’t. But how could a play even hope to convey the horrors of that day?

The general mood on the blog was skeptical; there was a fear the production was in poor taste and would cause further pain to those who had already suffered too much.

But this was also a story which needed to be told…and not just told, but understood.

Because, if you didn’t understand, it was far too easy to blame the victims, to speak of “personal responsibility”, to think you might have done differently. For the play to be a success, it would have to explain why this was false.

I needn’t have worried; it’s a very powerful piece and, I believe, an excellent representation of the events. Listening to fellow attendees talk about it on the way down the stairs, I heard “terrifying” used a number of times, as well as “really unsettling”.

There’s a reason for this.

The play was born when producer Callum Cheatle read this report in The Guardian and realised the story would make for an excellent piece of immersive theatre. It also needed to reach as wide an audience as possible.

He then commissioned Adam Usden to write it; Usden then immersed himself in the world of James Arthur Ray, reading all of his books, watching his presentations and YouTube videos, in addition to all of the eye-witness accounts and Connie Joy’s book, “Tragedy in Sedona” (he describes the latter as a “fascinating and slightly disturbing account of being part of Ray’s inner circle, condemning him, while still, very obviously, in thrall to him”).

Most of the dialogue is verbatim; frequent use of direct quotations from eye witnesses and JAR’s own presentations means the dialogues rings true. Nigel Barber acts with a ferocious intensity, and the way it’s staged allows the audience to experience the full force of JAR’s personality.

It was an unusual venue, to say the least. Edinburgh’s annual Festival and Fringe is so large the city’s traditional venues hold just a fraction of the events, with all sorts of buildings pressed into service. Hearts on Fire is at C-Nova, in the India Buildings, formerly home to Edinburgh’s registry office. The top floors of the buildings have, for the duration of the Fringe, been given over for “immersive theatre” and it’s here Hearts on Fire is performed.

We were met at the door by a “Grace”, JAR’s event co-ordinator, who wished us luck in our “journey to become a Spiritual Warrior”. Stepping inside, we could see the room had been carefully set up to look like the inside of the sweat lodge, a tarpaulin and canvas dome over a sandy floor with benches around the outside for us to sit on as events unfolded in front of us.

We were welcomed again inside by “Sam”, a slightly fey male JRI employee, with any latecomers or people talking stared down. The lights went down, and when they came up “James” was in our midst.

He spoke about the events of that day, expressing sorrow and regret, and I feared this was a major mis-step. But I had little time to think as the play moved on with “James” moving seamlessly into a blistering delivery of his very own hodge-podge of mysticism, misunderstood quantum physics and the law of attraction.

The play wasn’t limited to the events of the sweat lodge; it covered the run up to the sweat lodge, as well as the lodge itself, and focused on four participants, with varying degrees of commitment to JAR.

The portrayals seemed accurate; all of them were seeking something, a couple were rather new age-y, and there was a member of the “inner circle” who seemed infatuated with “James” more than the others. There was a painter, looking to settle down; a family man, a fun-loving goofy Irishman desperate to keep growing so he didn’t give up like his father did, an enthusiastic Orthodontist smitten with James Ray, and a grandmother who was a member of his inner circle.

Although they might seem a little clichéd (a criticism some reviewers have made of the production), I’d disagree. Clearly based on the actual victims, the characters were sensitively portrayed by the actors; they were likeable, resourceful and, above all, real. “Karen”, the inner circle member, was perhaps the most reserved, but she thawed during the recreation of the “Vision Quest”, feeling the full force of James’ anger when she was caught sharing cake with “Leah”, the painter who had missed dinner after “dying” in the Samurai Game.

A number of key events were included; while some volunteered to have their hair cut, some had their hair cut without consent (hair cut but not shorn, presumably because it’s easier to cut off fake hair extensions than to have an actor grow their hair in a day) and, as I’ve mentioned above, the Samurai game was also included, with James’ bellowing “die” at a confused participant he’d tricked into talking to “God”.

“James” was truly terrifying, spouting nonsensical mash-ups of Quantum Theory with aggressive confidence, playing to the crowd with the Black-Eyed Peas “I Got A Feeling” blasting. And we were also taken backstage where, in private, he capriciously switched between charm and cruelty, changing into identical T-shirts and leering at his assistant, then berating her for letting him leer.

Later, we had to watch as he destroyed “Karen” (the “inner circle” Spiritual Warrior) for offering food to one of the actors who had been “killed” in the Samurai game, making her all the more determined to complete the “sweat lodge” to earn back his favour. I don’t know if the production team knew about the death of Colleen Conaway, but it was chillingly easy to see how being on the wrong side of JAR’s contempt could lead to psychological instability. Around the same time, his cold indifference to the orthodontist’s decision to cut her hair betrayed the contempt he felt for his customers.

The lodge itself was a smaller part of the production than I had originally anticipated, although in retrospect this was understandable. You couldn’t hope to understand why the victims behaved like they did without some context, and it also wouldn’t be possible to portray the full horror of being in that lodge.

What we saw was “James” cavalierly ordering more heat, more stones, talking about how his lodges were the hottest, that they were like hell, telling those who wanted to leave how he thought they were “better than that”, coercing family man “Daniel” to stay even though he wanted to leave, with James replying to Daniel’s plaintive explanation “I’m just thinking of my kids” with a chilling “I’m thinking about your kids” . He also screamed at one for pulling up a flap and “destroying the sanctity of the lodge” – this was the only one of the four “Warriors” who survived.

And all the while he ignored the agonised cries of his “Warriors” and the warnings that some “weren’t looking too good”, dismissing them with his infamous “the door’s closed, we’ll deal with that later” comment … then the participants stood up, the lights went up, they stood and spoke their thoughts – the final thoughts of three of the four (obviously a dramatisation, but believable)- before the lights went back down and the assistants raced in to a maniacally delirious “James” (who had indeed been sitting by the exit, although they didn’t make much of this) and then realised the others weren’t breathing before starting ineffectual CPR in a panic.

And, even here, things were beautifully observed; while event co-ordinator “Grace” started CPR, “Sam” said “But I’m not trained”; JRI’s event co-ordinator Melinda Martin had been trained in CPR but others apparently had not been. While this was happening, “James” walked off to his corner (out of the light, undoubtedly indicating his room) and stripped down to his underwear before changing his attire once more.

He then resumed his speech from the start, expressing remorse, but with huge amounts of self-pity creeping in (“I wanted to take them by the hand and see how they had changed…that was for me. Everything else was for them but that was for me!”. He then wound up to a tearful, self-pitying but apparently penitent conclusion … and I thought “what a shame – they’ve failed at the last. He’s a sociopath – he can’t be sorry”.

And then the only survivor of the four came back out, and sat in what had been his chair, dressed in a black skirt and top, giving a media interview … and it became clear he wasn’t sorry for causing their deaths. He was sorry he was in trouble, worried how the bodies “right there in front of me” could be squared with his professed belief in the law of attraction.

The survivor, using Beverly Bunn’s words, then gave a cold but clear account of the chaos and of how James Ray had done nothing, showered and changed and then just stood. “He helped … no-one”. As she was speaking, we also hear JAR’s internal monologue (“Don’t you dare! Get out of my chair. You dare sit there and criticise me?”). All this time the dead remained on the floor, like an extended version of the Samurai Game.

And then he was back holding court “what happened … happened. You think this is going to stop me?” He built up to a peak a modified version of the “you’ll think you’re going to die” schtick, and finished with “I haven’t even started my engine; turn it on … are you ready … Go!” and the lights went out … the end of the play.

Had I not known this story before seeing the play, I’d have assumed the events had been dramatised; I suspect many attending might think the same. But this isn’t the case; here many of the more outlandish details are minimised or ignored entirely (although the $250 ponchos are mentioned, it’s a throwaway line, something many audience members might think a joke … but it is of course true); in the play the cost of the weekend is $10,000 with flights and accommodation; in 2009, these were separate (and came to another $5000, with attendees unaware the “special rate” they paid for accommodation was actually higher than the usual daily rate).

Participants were also encouraged to forego sleep in order to fill out deeply personal questionnaires, which is only briefly alluded to. There’s no mention of any previous issues at JRI events, no mention of the high pressure sales tactics for even more expensive events a day or two into the course, and no mention of the participant who tried to leave with her sister, only for the “Dream Team” to try to prevent her doing so, saying her sister was “having her own experience”.

These omissions are understandable; they would’ve taken too long and, ironically, would have placed too much strain on the audiences’ credulity.

The production isn’t trying to explain why people attended; rather it focuses on an accurate portrayal of the events. Callum Cheatle felt the story had to be told as it “carried an urgent message, in a new age of dangerously plausible versions of faith.” It’s seductively easy to think we would have made different choices than the participants, but would we? Hungry and dehydrated after 36 hours spent in the desert, then into a sweat lodge with a man like James Arthur Ray, coercively encouraging us to “complete” an experience we’d paid ten large for as we became more and more heat exhausted and delirious? Or would we have trusted him and his assertions that we’d “feel as if [we’re] going to die but it’s OK”?

We know what we’d like to be true, but would we really be able to resist the coercion when we were drained, dehydrated and delirious?

>> bleep bloop


39 thoughts on “Hearts on Fire”

  1. @SD @DrGeek – I thought I knew enough about the Ray Sweat Lodge. But I did’nt. Spot on. Reading the Guardian article – I cannot understand how Ray got off manslaughter, and was convicted of the lesser charge negligent homicide. FTC: come on. Time to take down the James Arthur Ray website – you can find it here: http://jamesray.com/

    Oprah: Time to apologise? You can go to http://jamesray.com/ and watch your endorsements in action. Did whoever operates the site on behalf of James Ray ask permission to include the clip? Maybe Oprah you can ask for it to be taken down?

    CNN; Fox; : James Arthur Ray is the right sort of wacko sociopath that you can promote, encourage, and even create, and then can follow the exciting amazing story lines that you are in a big way responsible for – or not? Do you have enough control over your content / IP to dissallow it from being re-used by the James Ray site? I think you do. Why not insist that it is taken down? An idea. A small step in the right direction.

    1. @Random stuff,

      Like you, I thought I knew the story – but when I started researching for this write-up after seeing the play, I realised the story was even worse than I’d first thought. I also realised how much of the play was verbatim, and how the amount of research behind it.

      Like you, I now can’t believe he got so small a sentence. The whole purpose of the sweat lodge was to induce delirium through heatstroke and dehydration in an horrific environment and then, as the participants stumbled out, use the resultant surfeit of adrenaline to tell them they’d been “reborn”. With all the evidence pointing to a callous disregard for those who sought his advice, it seems he just didn’t care about the risks involved.

      Two years was a joke. A terrible, offensive joke – much like the $5000 JRI offered Kirby Brown’s grieving family.

      1. @Dr Geek, I hope the judge for the case, and the heinous defence team for James Arthur Ray get to read your review, and your comment above. Here’s hoping that they can feel shame – but I am not sure they are made of the right stuff.

        The horror that James Arthur Ray perpetrated is a visceral example of the nasty manipulative pressure sales techniques (hey – anything goes – so long as you get a sale – and who cares what is being sold – or the damage that is being done) that permeate the Internet Marketing world, and make it rotten to the core.

        Some companies are so obviously corrupt – Click*ank being one prime example – that the FTC should go in through the doors, shut them down, and turn off their lights.

        Any web-site or media company that is deceitful and disingenuous, that disallows any discussion that will shed light on the mixture of foolishness greed and plain evil that is the MLM Internet Marketing pyramid is part of the problem that allows James Arthur Ray, and far too many people and organisations (Scientology downwards) like him, to flourish.

        Heres also hoping that a few more creditable journalists will get on board with giving the IM / Guru Scamworld the coverage it deserves.

    2. @Random stuff,

      Oprah is like: hmmm… in one hand I need to apologize for taking advantage of people’s trust in my endorsements and what not…in the other hand is doughnut. Choices, choices, ya know!

  2. Excellent review!

    I hope you’ve sent it to Callum Cheatle as well.

    Pity we can’t force Judge Darrow to sit through it and encounter a truer depiction of Death Ray without Tom Kelly there to hold his hand and tell him it’s the victims’ fault and his client is an honest man.

    BTW Fuck you James Ray.

    1. @Yakaru,

      Thank you – and I have indeed. I saw the show twice – the first time I paid for my ticket, the second time I was Callum’s guest & got to speak to him & take some photos (I posted my initial review *before* I’d tweeted him, so his thoughtful gesture didn’t influence my review;-)

  3. I admit to being one of those who initially questioned whether this theatrical presentation might be exploitation, but I was also immensely curious about it and would have gone to see it had it been a little closer to home. In any case @DrGeek’s initial (abbreviated) review, as well as some of the other reviews I read, erased my doubts.

    I thank you, @DrGeek, for your expanded review, and thank you too, @SD, for presenting the review here. I’m going to spread it around to a few self-righteous souls who continue to insist that THEY would never be so foolish as to stay in a sweat lodge, and that THEY would have walked right out at the first sign of distress. I am not sure that even this piece will do much to get through their thick skulls, but I feel that I have to do something.

    I truly am am glad that someone cared enough to do the research and then to present this horrible story in a format that would enable more folks — not just long-time watchers and critics of the New-Wage/McSpirituality/selfish-help industries — to “get it.”

    1. @Cosmic Connie,

      I was also initially against the Hearts on Fire thing, but like I wrote later in the thread that was only because I had totally misunderstood what they were trying to do.

      It’s really hard to get people to “get it”.

      I’m going to spread it around to a few self-righteous souls who continue to insist that THEY would never be so foolish as to stay in a sweat lodge, and that THEY would have walked right out at the first sign of distress.

      One approach might be to try to have them remember some point of vulnerability from their own life experience. Then go with “now suppose that during your brief time of vulnerability, someone convinced you to do X” where X is some activity that has medium to long term consequences. It could be as simple as signing up for a mailing list, but more likely for them it’d be attending some free seminar.

      It’s like: the period of vulnerability may only be weeks, days, or hours. But if someone can convince you to make even small commitments of time or money, then they now have a foothold from which they can stage larger and larger attempts to gain more and more of your attention. All with the intent of modifying your behavior sufficiently so that you will let them inside your mind further and further, deeper and deeper.

      And for what? Apparently just so some dumb-ass can feel good about himself and call himself “god” and so he can get your money from you in a manner that will not be called theft by a public that has trouble understand how cult indoctrination works and what LGAT is.

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

      1. @Cosmic Connie, @Wyrd,

        I wouldn’t feel bad about having reservations. It would have been very easy for this production to have been exploitative, which makes their achievements all the more remarkable. I think every part hits the right notes – the producer, the writer, the team behind the set and the actors all got their parts just right. My apologies if I’ve missed anyone, but you get the idea – this is an ensemble piece, something Nigel Barber (“James”) was very keen to point out when I spoke with him (an clear deviation from the man he portrays – Nigel Barber might have JAR’s intensity, but he has far more humility).

        It’s difficult to describe the effect that intensity has in such a small space – the immersive aspect of the play adds that dimension to the experience. I read that Callum was hoping to tour with it – it’d be great if they could overcome the challenges such a tour and take it round the UK and beyond.

        1. @Dr Geek,

          I also had reservations — such a production would either be hit or miss, with miss being the more likely option. But from your review it seems to have surpassed the best I would have hoped for.

          I think anyone who knew little about it would shudder just even reading about the way they depicted Ray.

          1. One of the places I posted the link to this article was on a semi-private Facebook page that was set up so people who had been burned by serial con artist Kevin Trudeau’s Global Information Network (GIN) could vent. Since Ray has recently been promoting the 14-CD upsell for GIN, Your Wish Is Your Command, I felt the post was relevant.

            Well, here is one response I got, and my reply…

            [Other participant:] I was reading that site, wonders who is $tupid enough to pay 15 grand to sweat in a indian lodge tent? Some people have more money than sense… Hell for five grand I will put up a sweat lodge in my back yard and throw in the walking on fire for free! Any takers?

            [My reply]: Perhaps they were some of the same type of people who were “stupid” enough to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on GIN or Tony Robbins or some other crackpot selfish-help/McSpirituality/New-Wage crap. Most of the people who have the money to blow on this type of junk are well educated folks who genuinely want to improve their lives. I think they’re misguided but I would never call them stupid.

            1. The person with whom I was conversing on the Facebook page just came back with this:

              “15 grand for a weekend retreat is a waste of money also not listening to your body in a sweat tent unless held at gun point is stupid behavior”

              I suggested to him that he might want to bring that argument to Salty’s forum. In some of my previous comments on that same Facebook thread, I had taken the time to list the main factors that kept people in the sweat lodge — but apparently this other participant was not convinced. Maybe he will show up here and try to educate all of us.

  4. @SD,
    Thanks for posting

    @Dr. Geek,
    Thanks for taking the time to go to the event and write the review.

    —-= Engaging Armchair Psychology Mode =—-
    Regarding the “James” character and his almost but not quite saying “I’m sorry” at the end: it seems likely the playwright wasn’t coming at this from the position “James A. Ray is a sociopath FULL STOP”. Rather I think Adam Usden was trying to build a “James” based specifically on what he, Adam, had been able research about the real James A. Ray.

    Therefore, IMHO, it is very telling that even without an a priori position that “James A. Ray is a sociopath” Adam with all his research wound up reconstructing James A. Ray as more or less… a sociopath.

    I mean it’s like as if maybe there was a moment there where Adam wanted to write that James A. Ray says “I’m sorry”. But it just did not square with James A. Ray’s actual actions. So instead the “James A. Ray” character starts to say “sorry” but in the end whatever paltry feeling of guilt he may have is far overshadowed by James A. Ray’s fiery intense need to make others feel sympathy for him. Because, of course, on an instinctive level, James A. Ray knows/understands that when all other attempts to gain power over other people have failed, there’s always the Universal Plan B: Pity.

    1. @Wyrd,

      James would never apologize. He always said to never say you are “sorry”. Hence, when it was most important and most appropriate to do so…he didn’t. He couldn’t. It is outside of his character.

      James manages to transfer any inklings of personal guilt into anger and blame of others. He cannot get to the depth of real feelings.

      None of this would have happened if he could.

    2. @Wyrd,

      Sure, he’d LOVE to apologize. But he has a career to think of!

      Who knows how many years he’d have gotten if he didn’t have the Law of Attraction working for him?

      1. @SD,

        It was a very solid, well acted production. There was a lot of attention to detail as others have noticed, like the assistant Grace wishing you luck with your journey as you enter the ‘sweat lodge’ set and walk across the floor covered in real sand to take your seat, your feet resting on a mishmash of native American rugs.

        In a way the set itself is the most interestingly authentic thing- it is an artificial copy of an artificial copy of a sweat lodge.

        Nigel Barber as James is fantastic- he plays the character as a greedy bully, an abusive, emotionally unstable father.

        Not sure if this is going on tour but if so it’s well worth the price of admission.

  5. Well said!

    I like to think that I would punch him in the face and get out of there, but the truth is that people do all kinds of things in search of something better. These folks made a series of decisions that brought them there and once they’d committed so far, it would have seemed like lunacy to NOT stick it through.

    Death Ray has all the markings of the worst kind of psychopath. :(

    1. @Lori,


      And for all the blaming of victims that goes on in discussion about this (like Connie mentions above too), it’s too easy to forget that if the participants had have been brainwashed cultish followers, they wouldn’t have been capable of taking the decisive action that saved multiple lives.

      It’s easy to look from the outside and say “yeh I would have seen through Death Ray and just got out and saved people”. But that really just demonstrates that they haven’t understood the situation at all. It’s already been established by a jury that Ray was responsible for the deaths. But such commenters still haven’t realized what was really going on.

      Kudos to those ex-JAR students who have had the courage to speak out publicly, BTW!!!

    2. @Lori, Thank you for making this essential point, that when people had gone so far and spent so much, it would have seemed crazy for them NOT to stay in the lodge. That’s the reality, and you put it beautifully.

    3. @Lori, @Yakura, @Salty and gang, Thank you for the continued support and dedication. I’m so relieved we’re still learning from this tragedy and teaching others. NLP, LGAT, heat stroke can all be extremely dangerous. Please bring this play to the US, hopefully right around the time of James Ray’s release from prison.

  6. Kudos to all people with just enough courage to speak out publicly against every one of the people of JR’s ilk included in THE SECRET. There are many of them …………………

  7. I am first with soundtrack to this post? I ask again, I am first with soundtrack to this post? I say I am! I say again, I am!

    I help you by giving link for full listen and I ask only that you enjoy in all fullness and glory. I serve to you Rocky the Balboa snake!!!

  8. Why isnt this production an internet item so we could all assist it to become a viral sensation? The world needs a balanced view on this sorry saga instead of listening to the ball faced lies these frauds put out to support their sales figures and girlfriends. Salty, is this a miracle you can peform?

    1. @Sacredbamboo,

      Adrian (Sacredbamboo ),

      You CAN fight. Train. Build and link. Or be just another comment person, Mickey. Where were you 10 years ago when domains were squatting?

      But I get it. What you do not get is that there is no savior. Not the droid (I always loved the orange as opposed to the blue in star wars) nor the skywalker. Yoda gets close as he talks in circles and almost forces a person to think for themselves. One could only hope Luke, only hope.

      Then there is the princess.

      Point being, the droid makes for a good photo shoot but why?

    2. @Sacredbamboo,
      I second that Sacredbamboo. Espessially for the people in other countries where cult awareness is not as prevalent as in the US. I live in Europe and I see these gurus making huge money and becoming overnight success stories over here because people think that they are dealing with kind, honest wise men and women that only have their best interest at heart… it makes total sense to me that before Byron Katie was big in the states she was creating a steady and very loyal following in Germany and Holland.

      Even as I write this I am wondering if I am completely wrong and if spreading the play would have much impact at all. There are sites like Rick Ross, this one and many others that are packed with cases of abuse and examples of how bad these gurus are but we don,t seem to notice, or we somehow ignore the warnings when we find ourselves in a vulnerable position.

  9. This play sounds amazing. These words from the article brought tears to my eyes:

    These omissions are understandable; they would’ve taken too long and, ironically, would have placed too much strain on the audiences’ credulity.

    It’s true – the audience would never believe some of the outrageous deceptions and heavy handed tactics used by Ray to bend people to his will. I hope this play will make it to the U.S. as one more method of carrying this vital message, and giving voice to the victims of Ray’s depravity.

  10. Came across this and instantly thought of Death Ray:

    How to spot a sociopath – 10 red flags that could save you from being swept under the influence of a charismatic nut job

    Some interesting reading. Within the article is a list titled “10 signs for spotting a sociopath”. It’s like a Death Ray check list!

    The scary thing is that one day he will be released and likely start his crap again. Grrrrr!

    1. @MazeMan,

      I skimmed it. I liked the list pretty good, but they totally missed on the Pity Party part. The last resort of all your higher quality sociopaths is to play on your sympathies. Your natural tendency to feel bad when something bad has happened to someone else and that person is telling you about it directly.


      As for JAR getting out… I think that may have already happened if I read this correctly. But I’m not quite sure. I think I looked up JAR’s anticipated release date, but now I don’t remember for sure.


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @MazeMan,

      I’m not sure whose side you are on.

      Largely because of an ad on your website that states ‘How to Cure Almost Any Cancer at $5.15 a month’.

      Then leading to this typical shit:


      …with your getting affiliate income. Woo-wee. How many people will avoid life saving treatment in time, take the natural method, and die? – just like Jobs.


      The article on How to spot a socipath was good. Or was it too clever by half?

      1. @MazeMan,

        I might be really confused – and you might well nothing to do with the website, and certainly get no affiliate income from it. In which case, please accept my unreserved apologies. But hopefully you will also agree with my point about the very dubious ads on the website, and that the owner of the website is playing a tricky game.

        1. @Random stuff,

          The website the article is on is “naturalnews” or something. One presumes that means it’s supposed to be all about news pertaining to naturopaths and naturalism.

          Therefore, it’s “natural”, as the night following the day, that the website would have lots of bogus fake-health crap on it. I didn’t call @MazeMan out on it. I’m not sure why. Probably partly because I was trying to “focus on the positive”, but also it might be that I’m not seeing the site at its worst since my adblock plugin usually blocks the really gaudy nagware ads from most web pages.

          Fake cancer cure stuff always pisses me off. Real cancer kills far too many people every year. Fake cancer cures are like a blight on the land. When people support fake cancer cures, they are effectively making a mockery of all actual cancer suffers and all those that try to prevent, cure, treat, or do real research on actual cancer.

          Furry cows moo and decompress.

          1. @Wyrd,

            “When people support fake cancer cures, they are effectively making a mockery of all actual cancer suffers and all those that try to prevent, cure, treat, or do real research on actual cancer.”

            I could not agree more.

            But on the other hand there are *some* herbal remedies and legit herbal shops and websites that sell ‘natural’ remedies yet never the less with effective pharmaceutical properties: i.e. quinines that have not made mainstream medicine, but based on remedies that have been around for millenia. However there are none that are cancer cures to my knoweldge.

            I was might have been wrong in calling out @MazeMan – dwelling on the positive is good; – & will @MazeMan confirm?

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