Hello James Arthur Ray
“James Arthur Ray is transforming the way the world thinks.” ~ James Arthur Ray
{pic :: Mr. Ray’s darkly evil eyes and the sweat lodge from 2007 :: both from his flickr}
I wanted to go to Yale :: my Mother thought Berkeley :: but my Father wisely insisted that I just skim the book The Secret … and then go see the movie. What else do you need? I mean they just told you the fucking secret … now go forth … prosper!
But sometimes just hearing The Secret once isn’t enough. Sometimes after hearing The Secret you still kinda feel like shit. It’s almost like … even though you know you know the secret … your partner is still not that attracted to you. It’s almost like you are still just mediocre at your mediocre job. It’s almost like you still completely suck.
Maybe you should get some private tutoring from a specialist in Secrets like ironic-friend of the blog David Schirmer. Dave might tell you to fill the hole in your soul by running some scam operations out of evangelical churches. He might tell you that stealing is a quick way to get rich … especially if you don’t pay your employees or your debts. He might say something like :: “Give me everything you have and then hop into this pot so I can make soup from what meat is left on your broken body.” And then you might be like :: “Holy shit, that is fucked. I’m out.”
Many requests this week for The Droid to take a piece out of another “faculty” member over at The University of The Secret :: James Arthur Ray. Last week two people died while attending this d-bag’s $10k per head Spiritual Warrior Seminar. DEAD … DEAD people! $10k per head for a program that won’t do diddly shit for anyone … 60 sad folks stuffed into a sweat lodge like white-people sausages … d-bag narcissist who wears a ring on his thumb and talks about everlasting free instant unicorn wealth. Hell yeah! Count me in!
However :: this is a blog on mission {an active duty mission :: not some pussy ass reserve unit crap}. Justice :: bringing it down on mo-fuckers who need to be STOPPED. I think it’s safe to assume that Mr. Ray has now been stopped. I wish I could say that I’d mentioned his shenanigans BEFORE these terrible harms occurred like my fellow lie fighters Duff McDuffee & Cosmic Connie both did. But once you’re in the New York Times with a body count … I’d say the jig is up … con completed … show over.
Stupid Droid! … STOP being such an idiotic fucking optimist :: will you never learn? {link}
The comments from self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray came during a seminar he held at a hotel in Marina del Rey, near Los Angeles. Ray broke down in tears as he addressed the deaths.
“This is the most difficult time I’ve ever faced,” Ray told the crowd of about 200. “I don’t know how to deal with it really.”
WTF?? He’s doing a seminar? There are dead bodies :: and people in hospitals :: and he’s “dealing with it” by talking about how he can’t “deal with it” to people who paid $1200 per head to hear about how great he is at dealing with shit? Please tell me that didn’t really happen.
“We’re looking for answers,” he said. “I’m as frustrated and confused as other people are.”
Uhm … no you’re not fuck face. Other people have dead relatives and would like to know exactly what happened :: you are still alive … have their money … and know exactly what happened. Your levels of frustrated and confused won’t meet up with their levels until the Universe has burned cold.
Following Tuesday night’s seminar, attendee Darren Sakurai of Los Angeles said he left with a good impression of Ray’s message.
“The fact that he showed up says a lot about the man,” Sakurai said.
OMG! I guess Darren Sakurai is willing to forgive and forget. The past is the past. It’s time to move on to brighter tomorrows. We can’t get all bogged down in minuscule details like “dead people” and “reality” if we hope to have perpetual wealth and happiness on a stick.
Disgusting D-bag PigMan James Arthur Ray actually thinks he’s going to go right back to scamming as usual.
NO.
>> sad bleep
More fabulously hilarious writing ::
- James Arthur Ray :: Life Sentence You know who’s in jail right fucking now? Orenthal...
- James Arthur Ray’s Pre-crime Crimes 100% Iron Clad :: it sounds good … but...
- James Arthur Ray :: Manslaughterer James Arthur Ray :: aka Death Ray :: arrested...
- The Syndicate Presents James Arthur Ray Why am I failing? Have you ever asked yourself...
- James Arthur Ray’s Television Favorites Colleen Conaway’s death this July did not make the...
:: read one now before you die of stupid.
Comments are still jacked in FF.
Anyways, I’ve been hearing about this now but wasn’t really following. However now I’ve spent the last few hours reading about this shit bag and his shenanigans and two people died WTF.
That’s a murder charge as far as I’m concerned..If they can go after MJ’s doc for giving that vitalago freak the drugs he wanted then they can sure as hell lock this mo-fo up for sweating people to death (and charging them for it)
Seriously though. WTF am I doing peddling ebooks? There are people willing to pay 10k to go in a tent and sweat to death. That’s some seriously fucked up shit. Are people that desperate? Look I’m broke, I’m depressed, my life sucks, but I’ll find a way to give you 10k and maybe in return you’ll put me in a sweat box and IF I survive I’ll suddenly find Lamborghini’s showing up in my front yard.
In all seriousness…I feel terrible for these people. This is a terribly sad story and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families. This guy is a swindler and that’s all there is too it.
I’m from the school of “eye for an eye” Yeah I know it’s not the most liberal of approaches to things but I think James has a price to pay…So buddy, throw a few more rocks on the indoor sauna and lock the door.
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David Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-15
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watchin Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 4:42 am
to the commenter:
You are a fine representative for your organization, as you believe your wealth makes you superior to those who use public transportation instead of the dust-laden car collection.
For all these strivings one day eventually will be dust, as all things shall be. You are blinded by greed, and look at others as people to fleece. The good words come from good people and bear good fruit, not death and darkness.
Advice: Lay off of the bolivian bingo dust.
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Tricia B Reply:
December 21st, 2009 at 9:56 pm
I think that it is unfortunate that this man (as well as others like him) has given optimism a bad name. But the world is full of that that is lees than we have the potential to be. I for one will not spend my energy focusing on them. There is too much to be gained by focusing on what I want to create than what I want to be destroyed…for that waste. I choose just to let go.
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Reality check Reply:
December 21st, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Sometimes it’s appropriate to face negative things in this world. You can’t go around with your head in the clouds 24/7 and just ignore or deny things that don’t please you.
Anger, depression, hopelessness, despair, and all negative emotions are just as important and natural as happiness, joy, and excitement.
The key is to know thyself, embrace all of yourself, and make it work for you. Simply looking away and making vision boards and getting into the “feeling of it” in order to get your next big car or mansion is NOT going to get rid of homelessness or starving kids in Africa.
This self-help, law of attraction industry has made a lot of people into sick, selfish, self-absorbed assholes. Lot of people are doing bad these days for various reasons, and for you to come on here and say “oh no I don’t want to focus on negativity” well then why are you here on this page??? Our negative vibrations are going to interfere with all the vibrations you’ve built up … *throws some bootleg holy water on you* (i.e. Kilstein’s old vinegar colonics)
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Nick Snyder Reply:
February 13th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
I am replying to “Reality Check” post.I loved it! Dealing with reality.I do not know of anyone who lives an absolutely 100% blissful life filled with unlimited amounts of money & happiness.If anyone thinks that can happen,check the nearest asylum.However if you watch the “Secret” and listen to all the New Age hype,there is an implied message that you can have all you want @ any time of your life without fail.
I am definitely open for improving myself in life.I’d like to believe these so called gurus.But do you really need to walk on coals,jump up & down like a fool,rub crystals,read a passage from a Wallace Wattles book over & over again or what really must be enjoyable – be in a James Ray led “retreat” so you can foam at the mouth in a scalding hot box?
This James Ray story is definitely a reality check in the self development industry.If you read about what went on at his 5 Day Spiritual Warrior retreat,it will make you cringe in disbelief.In my view,it’s very serious.Right now he’s been arrested and in jail.There have been only a few posts by the more prominent business & spiritual developers ( Michael Port’s post is the best ). There have been no comments by any participants from the “Secret”.Anyway,the Ray case will be around for awhile.It will probably split the self help industry wide open.
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Dr. Jeff Kapp Reply:
January 8th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
@Reality check, It is not about ignoring things that displease you, it is about finding the better feeling thought…about all!
My wife and I attended a James Ray seminar and we knew right away that he was not being completely straightforward, and that his heart was not connected to what he was espousing.
His case will have no effect at all on the self-help “industry”, since the mind and the non-physical being, is always in control, and learning to manage and recover one’s connection will always lead to an improved physical life!
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Javier Gomez Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
James Arthur Ray hired me to prepare the meals at the Sedona retreat. While he dined on Filet Minion, Fresh Salmon, Lobster and Crab he told us to “throw together some inexpensive stuff and make it look good” for his guests. Shameful…
I hope he enjoys the meals in prison.
WINNER!! ::
+18
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SD Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
@Javier Gomez ::
Really? That’s hilarious! I mean :: that’s horrible :: but also hilarious.
Did you serve meat to the guests? Did he ever mention anything about restricting protein :: like saying “No Beans fo the Sheeple!” or the like?
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Javier Gomez Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
@SD, Oh he allowed plenty of beans and franks and corn, but this was only after he’d starved them for 36 hours without food or water. I’m all for fasting if it’s something you feel led to do. But no water for 36 hours in the desert is nuts!
What his lemmings didn’t know was that when he passed on eating in front of them, as though he was in some higher state of consciousness and no longer needed food, he had already stuffed himself with fine food, wine, Raspberry Mousse and so-called vitamins. One of the servers asked, “If those are all vitamins, why are there used Syringes in the waste baskets?”
Later we were asked to put out water, Gatorade and fruit outside of the sweat-tent. But make sure the fruit was cheap stuff like oranges and watermelon.
After someone ran up to him and told him that three of the students we no longer breathing he smiled in some sort of doped up daze and said, “Let them enjoy the experience.”
At that point enough was enough. Even though his followers adored him we called 911.
WINNER!! ::
+16
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stoic Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 4:07 am
@Javier Gomez,
I sincerely hope that you have been talking to the nice Yavapai detectives, Javier. There’s still time to make your point.
WINNER!! ::
+7
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Cassandra Yorgey Reply:
July 11th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
@Javier Gomez, I don’t think there was anything wrong with the food James Ray served ASSUMING that one was accustomed to a vegetarian diet. The problem being of course that people didn’t know what food would be served at first and then that food wasn’t served at all for 3 days.
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Jean D Reply:
July 20th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
@Cassandra Yorgey What was wrong was his sneaking behind participants backs,dining on fine cuisinea and wines,pretending not to be hungry, while making them eat cheap stuff! And,of course,as you mentioned, he deprived them of food and beverage for 3 days. He called that a vision quest,but sounds like it was a way to keep his costs lower. This is another example of Ray’s constant sense of entitlement and his deception and control of the “underlings”. The $10K participants paid for SW could have covered the cost for their own fabulous gourmet dishes, even meatless ones.
@Javier Gomez As @stoic said,hope you and the other staff members have told your stories to the YCSO and Sheila Polk’s office.
did u know tht our good friend harlan kilstein wrote some sales copy for james ray? yep. it is true.
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SD Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Would love to hear some elaboration on that little tidbit …
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beyond learning disabled Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 12:26 am
@sd Harlan Kilstein’s copy that he wrote for James Arthur Ray is in the book that he sells “Steal This Book”
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Gotta Laugh Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
What a dumb name for a book: “Steal This Book.” Judging from how easy it is to find online for free, it looks like more than a few people followed the title’s instructions to the letter. The “book” is pathetic, of course. Just a collection of his hypey-sounding bullshit “copywronging.”
The “book’s” REAL reviews on Amazon are also none too flattering. Evidently Kilstein doesn’t take well to criticism, either, since he flamed some of the Amazon reviewers with juvenile followup comments.
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Cassandra Yorgey Reply:
July 11th, 2010 at 11:56 am
@Gotta Laugh, actually “Steal This Book” is probably a reference to Abbie Hoffman’s 1970′s book of the same title that gave advice on mostly illegal or questionable activities.
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httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgVMNDrFTxs
The fake sentiments of a fake Christian. {tks karin}
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_cartman_ Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
David Schirmer say most people don’t believe satan exists, I don’t understand what he is trying to say. Didn’t he just make the video?
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canyouexplainthisplease Reply:
October 14th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Hey Cartman…I think what he’s referring to is “new age”…spiritualism stuff more dominate /out in the open today vs many years ago …as in people will say that they believe in a higher force or power and that there is no hell.
Of course there has to be a hell for Schirmer to exist…his flock pay him money to achieve their salvation and piece of mind that they won’t go to hell.
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_cartman_ Reply:
October 15th, 2009 at 10:40 am
hahaha…no, no…I was just being sarcastic….Didn’t he )as in “SaTaN”(, just make the video….
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Javier Gomez Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
@SD, Did anyone else notice that Schimer, in all his biblical quotations, never once mentions Christ warning to be on guard for false prophets?
Robert Tilton – Are you listening?
Years ago someone invited us to Bob Tilton’s church in Dallas one evening. This guy had the gall to take-up FIVE OFFERINGS in one service!
By the time the fifth offering was going on, some young woman walked up and handed him her wedding band and said it was all she had left to give. Bob quickly looked the small ring over and then yells out, “Who will give $1,000.00 so this sweet girl can keep her wedding band?” Almost immediately someone raised their hand and said they would. I guess Bob could see there was probably no more than $100.00 worth of gold in that ring but damn if he didn’t turn it into $1,000.00!
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SD Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
@Javier Gomez ::
It’s a miracle! Fake jesus be praised!
That reminds me of the when Jesus fed the 5000 …
Disciple :: “This is a remote place, and it’s already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food.”
Jesus :: “They do not need to go away. You give them something to eat.”
Disciple :: “We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish.”
Jesus :: “Bring them here to me.” {holds up the loaves} “Believers, we have but five loaves and two fish … yet we are many in numbers. Who will go to town and buy way more food. I can’t really afford it because I’m kind of a wandering hippie. I’d be willing to give you a testimonial on your website … and you’ll get free blessing for life. Seriously people … anyone … anyone … Bueller?”
Amen.
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stoic Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
@SD,
He was a spell-binding charismatic speaker, he hypnotised them with his rhetoric to the extent that their spiritual hunger was appeased and they were fooled into thinking that their physical ‘hunger’ had also gone.
Try that on someone who hasn’t eaten for a week or two and who is feeling true hunger, not a vague ‘missed a meal’ discomfort–you’d get your arm chewed off.
Bob Tilton, on the other hand, sounds like a true modern alchemical magician.
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Jean D Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
@SD, I was looking up Creflo Dollar to see if that’s is real name and ran across this site that exposes the shams of the faux Christian market. http://www.pulpit-pimps.org/?cat=5
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john Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 12:04 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-4
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That video is the most F-ed up thing I’ve ever heard.
He feels the worst for James Ray and his team. Nice. That is classic.
Sure people died, but poor James and his couple of hundred thousand dollars he made at their expense.
Who is this quadruple chin dude?
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httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOO5wIu8Lnc
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Cowboy Reply:
July 9th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
WTF? A Sweat Lodge equals going back into the womb of your mother? And then the stupid comment that you can’t do that because that would be paramount to prostitution. What a bunch of gibberish and bullshit.
Heck, come to Houston and I’ll put you in a parked car for free!
Then you can chant until your heart is content while you hold onto your sacred crystals.
There you have it. A free Sweat Lodge — heck, I’ll even throw in a free Slush Puppy afterward.
Notice that all the people in this interview are sitting in a comfortable air-conditioned environment.
I have a buddy who says he really enjoys Saunas and says sometimes he even gets lucky in there.
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I find this guy and his comments totally deluded and I question his motives.
Everyone on the secret dvd had the opportunity to get paid (INCLUDING HIM) because they are selling the movie and its other products for profit so I think his comments are selfish and deliberately misleading. He was remunerated for his crappy little car park segment in that stupid movie because he has always been making profits from the sales of it. Oh poor dude, this is yet another behind the scenes exposure from that pathetic dvd and its probably affecting his business or what was left of it. I get very pissed off with people who manipulate the public to make them think that they made nothing out of something when it is blatantly obvious to anyone with sugar for brains that he wouldn’t be doing it if he didn’t make anything because he seems to spend all his time crapping on to people about getting rich. His comments put everyone who disagrees with him down if they don’t follow his crappy advice. Are any of the people in that movie professionals or qualified in anything that they talk about? Seriously the whole thing seems a total sham to me.
What sticks out most is that these people appear to all stick to the personal development line of business that very conveniently does not seem to require registration, qualification or accountability of any sort anywhere (salty you might be able to qualify this comment). Why? Because up until this saga they dont appear to have ever been held accountable for any of the despicable things that they do in the name of justifying the titles they have given themselves and the money they charge for their crap like “you can trust me, buy everything that I sell because I’m going to tell you you need it and if you don’t you are just a dirty little shit that I dont need” sort of thing or “I’ll charm you and be sweet to you until you stop giving me money or start asking questions about what I am doing then you are a dirty little shit that I don’t need anymore”.
I also find his crappy little video really offensive because by making such a thing he is now claiming to be a preacher of the bible and better than anyone else which I believe is completely against what that book is about. A man who was evidently chased to court by Bob Proctor for misleading and deceptive conduct is now claiming to be a god man and he is even putting his own interpretations on verses in that book explaining them EXACTLY HOW IT SUITS HIM. I am not a churchy person but I have respect for people who are and I find this guy a complete fake and very offensive. If he were real he would shut up, not meddle and not preach his own interpretation at people that I millions of other people probably don’t give a shit about anyway. God loves everyone he says, does that mean he or any one of these people can do whatever they want to whoever they want and not expect any consequences?
Black and white, rich and poor, yin and yang. If satan is a spirit he should be one person who should be very nervous. And I want to know why the hell should I send James Ray any love and support when people have lost their lives because they (believing what they were being promised by James Ray probably) paid James Ray money (huge greedy money, not the sort of I feel for you lets do this as cheaply as we can to help you money) to attend his (what looked like a dust camp) camp? That appears to have no consequence to Mr Schimer because his focus seems to be on feeling sorry for himself and his do-gooder mate and how this may end up affecting his money and his perceived power and EGO. What a selfish greedy bastard and I take great issue with his preaching his personal beliefs to people when it is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS what other people think or believe. They can happily work it out for themselves thanks very much without any imput or comment from Mr fake himself.
I’ve got some good advice for Mr Schimer STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES BLOODY BUSINESS you might be better off NOT EVER SAYING ANYTHING. Your advise is not welcome and you embarrass everyone when you open your mouth. You are doing your fake mate Mr Ray guy no favours opening your unqualified uneducated fat head orifice. People who really are right say nothing because they are content in themselves and the ones who can’t help but fight and try to justify their wrong make so much noise they give themselves away. I put this guy in that category.
Salty dig up all the crap where this guy was backing his mates when everything was going well. Now that it appears hes been ostracised we might understand better why. He now looks like he is distancing himself from their beliefs. Funny co-incidence, I think not. I think its all about MONEY AND GREED.
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This is disgusting and the guy should be held accountable. That video from David Schirmer is shows what thoughtless brainless idiots he and his mate are. I hope he suffers seriously from his comments and from what comes of this tragedy. It looks like some people take a long long time to learn the lesson that greed never pays well. This IS the law of attraction in action.
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These guys amuse me. They are mates while they are making money but as soon as one of them does something they know will affect their business they rat on them. If they are led by the spirit they will TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY, if they are led by greed they will not, SIMPLE. I doubt that guy from Australia has taken any responsibility for his issues so far and I think his comments are a complete cover up and guilt trip. Just my gut talking.
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Boy, the things I miss when I don’t visit the Droid’s blog as often as I should. Fortunately, one of the commenters on my own blog pointed me in this direction. Good work, Droid, including the graphic; you inspired me to write yet another addendum to my post on this sorry incident.
I admit I was kind of surprised that James showed up for that seminar following the Spiritual Warrior debacle. But I have to agree with Ray fan Darren Sakurai’s comment that “The fact that he showed up says a lot about the man.” It does indeed. But what it says may not be what Ray and his worshipers might have intended.
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This whole saga is shocking and James Ray must pay. If he’s a man he’ll stand up and pay big time and if hes a coward crap artist like his aussie mate he will hide and cheat and lie and remove all the comments he doesn’t like reading about himself and blame everyone else for his own freakin mess of a life and disgrace himself publicly by making stupid worthless meaningless statements and then turn to preaching God and Jesus as a last resort because there is no-one left who’ll listen to his crap. He will be chewed up and spat out the rest of his waking moments if he does not fess up like a real man should do. And no matter what he says now I am convinced he and his mates are all about greed, I am yet to see any proof otherwise.
Salty I reckon that image on the top should have a line up of the secret contributors with the little fat aussie guy at the front. Cover it in plastic and zip it up and make the world a safer more honest place.
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Have you ever seen so many people who have taken the libert of giving themselves the title of expert and guru chasing their own tails and ratting on each other. What a farce. The fact that even Rhonda Byrnes ended up in court over a greed grab for cash explains the full intentions of those involved. These people are shameless and have shamed the entire industry. The secret is appearing clearer and clearer by the day – do not follow them, do not act like them and do not trust them or believe anything that they say – the wisest secret of them all.
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Prolonged periods of sweating without replenishing the body with water is extremely dangerous.
Lots of wrestlers have died trying to make weight for matches… some going so far as to wrap themselves in plastic wrap and then running. Not smart.
Even saunas usually come with warnings to limit your time in them to 15 minutes or so.
Two hours in a sweat lodge? That’s plain stupid. And to charge money for it? Criminal.
Ryan
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He goes on to say “I just kept thinking ‘I have to take care of my people’.” How he could even utter those words after his gross failure to take care of them during the retreat when they needed it is beyond me. James Ray insists to the callers that “this is something I have never been confronted with before” and George and Amayra Hamilton, the owners of Angel Valley Retreat (where the sweat lodge was held), have repeatedly backed him in news reports. However, “not been confronted” is not the same as “never happened before” and the fire department released information that something exactly like this has happened before. In 2005 a call was placed to 911 because of another sweat lodge being run by James Ray at the same Angel Valley Retreat center. Furthermore, the police are investigating James Ray’s retreats at multiple other locations.
James Arthur Ray you are finished.
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“James Arthur Ray you are finished.”
All of the people in the secret who have manipulated others, stolen, cheated, lied, whose intentions for being in the production was purely to make as much money as possible will now pay. It started with that idiot from Australia who spent most of an interview stuttering and blaming rather than taking responsibility for the anger and disgust that he had very plainly caused a lot of people. He is now floundering in his lies and deceit and so too will James Ray. These people had every opportunity to practice what they were preaching but they did not. Lets see if Ray has the balls and gall to be a genuine man not like that Aussie fool.
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Thank you for posting on James A Ray. I also thought that news in the NY Times would take him down, but apparently not.
Here is a transcript of a phone call Ray had with the victims of his death lodge: http://j.mp/4xsoEi
One of Ray’s staff members on the dead participants: “[they] had so much fun they chose not to come back and that was their choice that they made.”
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Wyrd Reply:
October 17th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
@Duff,
That was a good article.
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it pisses me off that a concept like law of attraction has been cheapened and prostituted by these fucking leeches called MARKETERS. Without fail, it always happens that a concept or a truth that can be used for positive things in this world is infiltrated by festering, cancerous maggots who seek to gain as much power, control and money as possible. sure give people a few truisms, and then slip in your lies, your twisted, incestious thought virus.
Now people are turned completely off from the law of attraction. Listen, LOA is more than just visualizing,focusing or getting in to the feeling of having it already. All those things are tools you use to psych yourself into a circumstance. If you want the physical results, you HAVE to take action that is in harmony with the end result you want. Therein lies the challenge. Yes, there can be some subconscious programming that may make it difficult for a person to sort out what they really want, but there are much bigger answers to questions as to why those James Ray people died, and by simply saying that they attracted that through law of attraction is bullshit.
Law of attraction goes way beyond your thoughts, beyond your feeings, beyond your subconscious. All those play a key role, but there is another factor beyond that very few people ever get to understand. That factor defies human logic. Call it what you want, but deep down inside we all know that this is the part that we call “unforeseen events”.
the great part about this is that you cannot make it go away and you cannot stop it , no matter how much you prostitute it and eventually, it will come back to bite you , if you have misused it.
rationalize all you want. rationlize to the point of becoming ignorant and forgetting what you are doing. still won’t change the karmic debt you have created. unlike the physical world, you can’t file bankruptcy and get off. you will pay.
so many maggots are taking spiritual truths and slapping their cheesy bs on them like Agel reps using the law of attraction in their sales pitches.
if these people really knew anything about the law of attraction they would NOT be misusing it, because they would know the shit that is coming back to them.
Believe me, I’ve been there. I’ve worked on a scam psychic line before. (remember Ms. Cleo?). I never believed in psychics and simply just made up stuff as I went along. Whatever came to mind. m,ain objective was to keep the caller on the phone line as long as possible, because you got paid per minute of talk time.
After a couple of months I’d be making things up and they were true. Detailed things such as person’s first and last names. i stopped after this. too freaked out. and it did backfire on me.
One of the main key ingredients left out of the Secret and this law of attraction stuff is a natural form of human compassion and love for all living things. And that’s why these fake experts are reaping what they have sown.
Time for a poem:
An eye for an eye,
a tooth for a tooth,
what you have done unto me,
so too 10times I will do unto you.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
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Well said!
“.. the great part about this is that you cannot make it go away and you cannot stop it , no matter how much you prostitute it and eventually, it will come back to bite you , if you have misused it.
rationalize all you want. rationlize to the point of becoming ignorant and forgetting what you are doing. still won’t change the karmic debt you have created. unlike the physical world, you can’t file bankruptcy and get off. you will pay…”
I wonder if any of these people ever considered this the minute they took their first dollar off someone for a service that they could never in their time on earth every fulfil. They sold promises, hope and greed and now they reap the justice they deserve.
BRING IT ON!
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No these people don’t consider anything, because they do not understand or know the Law of Attraction. If they really understood it, trust me they would not be doing what it is they are doing. Law of attraction takes a life time to learn and understand, not so mu
ch from books,seminars, or gurus, but from observing yourself and paying careful attention to yourself, your thoughts, feelings, actions and your experiences, and most importantly, your interpretation of those experiences. While I don’t believe there is really “evil” or “good”, I do know that there is a boomerang effect in whatever you project and it does not matter in what way you project, it will return without fail.
Once you know and understand this from your own experience, there are certain things you will not do, because you know it is not worth the return. Just like little kids learn very quickly not to touch a hot stove and wish they had listened to mom or dad, these dbags will have to learn too. Only thing is, they seem to have a learning disability.
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Why does it take people dying for people to begin to hold these people accountable?
Tony Robbins has his photo-op moments of him with the Dalai Lama and Mother Teresa and has the audacity to present this photo-op moment as an “endorsement” of his work by these people – like the guy coached the Dalai Lama – give me a break. We should be publicly calling him out to not abuse the suffering of the Tibetans or the legacy of a saint to sell his con. Lying your way to success – this is the education they offer, and you can see exactly what kind of person you can become when you follow these cults. This is exactly what is wrong with America today…
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Who gives a shit about what David Schirmer has to say about this incidence. He should shut up and mind his own freakin business for a change. He is trying to steal publicity from a disgraceful tradegy by putting his own freakin interpretation on something he knows nothing about (whats new). He is just as freakin guilty about manipulating people as the next one and all he can do is fight and argue. Have you read the comments on his youtube (edited of course, he only lets the stuff through that he approves of) rather than saying NOTHING he argues, blames and craps on as if he has the answer to everyones problems. Grow up you moron and go back in your hole where you belong. Useless bastard.
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Poor David Schirmer! It just KILLS him that other people are getting attention instead of him. You’d think he’d be glad, since the only attention he ever gets lately is negative attention. But like the poor abused sick child he is, he’ll take what he can get from Mummy and Daddy.
How does it feel, David, trying so hard to cash in on dead people? Feels good? Still enjoying your mortgaged to the hilt mansion? Oh, wait, sorry–you lost that, didn’t you? Ooops. My bad.
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Everyone, please give your answer to this:
“What needs to die in James Arthur Ray?”
My answer would include: his ego, his fear, his greed, his lack of compassion, and his pathetic foolishness.
James Arthur Ray is not a guru. He is less wise than the typical walking-around joe.
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Hang on David Schirmer is now pretending he is God. He is trying to preach to people about things he doesn’t even understand himself but then apparently you didn’t need to know bugger all about the law of attraction either to be included in the secret, the only qualifications needed was that you were a con and a fast talker. These church people seem to be the only people he has left to screw over. The poor suckers are probably clueless about what the guy is capable of and they have allowed him to take over the church website, create a church blog, create a church facebook page, probably a twit page or two as well and they still havent woken up. Oh no Davey would never waste his time doing things like that if there was no payment in it for him. Trust me, watched for years and remain disgusted as ever. I have also discovered lie after lie after lie throughout his comments over the years and you know every time someone has an issue he pipes up with all the fake wisdom he can think of. The guy is a complete fake and has been for years I’m surprised so many people got sucked in but there you go, shit happens because these guys practice preaching.
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oh God! What a wanker!
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As of Sunday, October 18, a third person has now died from their sweat lodge “injuries” – and the perpetrator is still not in custody.
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What the hell are the authorities doing with this guy or are they building their case and watching what he does now?
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That David Schirmer guy makes me feel sick in the stomach. How can he claim to be a Christian when he starts preaching to people about things he knows nothing about i.e. how others are made to feel by him and his mate James Ray. A man who has also been chased to court by Bob Proctor for misleading and deceptive conduct. Does he not get that he is a very evil man and makes statements based on his own intentions.
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That guys a bloody loser and the churchy claims are just plain sick.
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Here’s some interesting new info about what happened in Sedona
http://twsp.bravejournal.com/
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Wow — I really liked and learned a lot from Rays Harmonic Wealth video. What the hell happened to the guy in the video? I think he forgot everything he learned–he became too successful — got greedy and egotistic. I have lost all respect for him — where is he — why is he not taking responsibility for this? That sweat lodge was not spiritual — it was cultish, intimidating and humiliating to those people.
Was anyone as amazed and appalled as much as I was when he cryed and moaned about not knowing how to handle this in front of a crowd of people who paid $1200.00 apiece to learn and possibly witness a so-called expert on handling any earthly agony with spiritual guidance and useing the Law of Attraction effectively?
And yes — I agree, that guy spouting the bible is dispicable.
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I received this from James Ray in my email box this morning
Looks like he has no intention on slowing down his “business as usual”
Regarding the Recent Events in Sedona
For me, for the families and friends of the sick and deceased and for many people who believe in the important work we do, these have been the most difficult ten days of our lives.
People are throwing out accusations and disparaging me and our mission. Yet despite that, and despite considerable criticism, I have chosen to continue with my work. It’s too important not to. One of the lessons I teach is that you have to confront and embrace adversity and learn and grow from it. I promise you I am doing a lot of learning and growing. I have taken heat for that decision, but if I chose to lock myself in my home, I am sure I would be criticized for hiding and not practicing what I preach.
It means a great deal to me that so many of you have come to see me speak this week and last–that you are investing your time and energy into creating more fulfilling, successful and productive lives. It reaffirms my decision to continue my schedule and these event experiences.
I want to use this forum to address the families of those whose lives were lost, James, Kirby and Liz. I have reached out to all of the families personally, but feel the need to say more. I feel your pain. I accept your anger. And I pray for you all to have some measure of peace and comfort. I want you to know that I too want to know what happened that caused this horrible tragedy. My team and I are working with the appropriate authorities and have even hired our own investigators to find out the truth.
I believe the best way to honor their amazing lives and everlasting memory is to continue this important work. Please join me in a moment of silence to pay homage to their lives and to pray for the speedy recovery of others taken ill.
James Arthur Ray
President/CEO
James Ray International, Inc.
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“I have chosen to continue with my work. It’s too important not to.”
Yeah! Because if I DON’T, I might lose my multi-million-dollar HOUSE! Like what happened to that Whats-his-name Schirmer fellow when HE got caught!
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-4
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Read all these comments and how fucking stupid is that Schirmer guy coming out with the most ill timed ill informed and immature comments. He is on record several times on the australian court list and he is still claiming to be god as well as the god of wealth and bugger all knowledge when its as clear as dogs balls that he is nobody near who he claims to be. A lot of people seem to hate him but hes biggernthat and he calls his superficial relationships on the likes of facebook and twitter his friends. What a fucking wanker. Apparently the house he is in is up for sale too and it only leaves one question, paid your rent up to date David or are those people fucking so sick of dealing with you too? Oh but I suppose running “learn how to create money out of thin air seminars” at the bloody church makes up for all the shit hes given out over the years. That is disgraceful even to me and wow, perfect target, good people who trust others. All Schirmer seems to be is a fucking smooth talker who like James Ray is all charm. Has he ever paid anyone he was supposed to yet? I bet not. You might fool a few people some of the time and even get away with spruiking crap out your arse for ridiculous sums of money but in the end it will all come back to haunt you when you least expect it. These guys need putting into a mental institution and have the same crap done to them that they do to people who trust their words. They don’t have real jobs, what they do is an excuse for having a big ego and it appears the more they crap and lie and deceive the higher the price they charge. Unbelievable. I am visualising these guys in the gutter where they belong. Keep up the good work salty and root out these bastards before more people get hurt.
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Just read on Schirmers facebook that he has an office in Austin and hopes to be in the US next year. Before you all start whining and feeling squeemish, this is what he said to one of his blind followers:
“… I have a feeling that the events in the US will be God inspired! ;-) I will be primarily focusing on building wealth.”
Okay Okay I hear you! How the hell can Schirmer know what Gods inspiration will be IN FUCKING ADVANCE? WEALTH FOR WHO? HIMSELF!!!!!! Is that premeditated or what? Is he hoping to get a free ride with the church to the US to do his own business? I can’t believe the freak, what a user. He has no shame and I guess thats why he came out and supported JR.
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Learn how to be a “CASHINOVA” Conman by James Ray and David Schirmer
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Yeah Schirmer is the type good christian who would deliberately open up bank accounts in the us to avoid paying his debt down under. I don’t trust the guy, never have, never will. He is incredibly deceitful and has been for years. Friends of ours knew him from him Toowoomba days and he hasn’t changed a bit. I feel sorry for people who got caught up with him because I dont believe he ever intends to pay any of his debts because he tries to teach people how to avoid responsibility. He used to run a course called something like using other peoples money which is about all he does. His claims in his marketing are so grand and false its obvious he doesnt care what he says. He will never be able to succeed because karma will plague him for the rest of his life. It is impossible for him to walk down the street with his head held high knowing he has given the very best he can to people. If you truly are a christian it is impossible not to be weighed down with the worry of responsibility. His comments display his arrogance and intentions to use his association with the church to get to the us to do business. If he was to go preaching without taking from anyone then thats a different thing but he is a very jealous person who can’t seem to help wanting what other people have and just finding a way to take it.
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hah whenever people here in Europe start with this bible stuff we already know they are talking crazy and want to cheat you into buying some crap hah hah hah
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I know this isn’t precisely on point, but it’s so dang funny. It’s a parody review of The Secret:
The Secret saved my life!,
December 4, 2007
By
Ari Brouillette
Please allow me to share with you how “The Secret” changed my life and in a very real and substantive way allowed me to overcome a severe crisis in my personal life. It is well known that the premise of “The Secret” is the science of attracting the things in life that you desire and need and in removing from your life those things that you don’t want. Before finding this book, I knew nothing of these principles, the process of positive visualization, and had actually engaged in reckless behaviors to the point of endangering my own life and wellbeing.
At age 36, I found myself in a medium security prison serving 3-5 years for destruction of government property and public intoxication. This was stiff punishment for drunkenly defecating in a mailbox but as the judge pointed out, this was my third conviction for the exact same crime. I obviously had an alcohol problem and a deep and intense disrespect for the postal system, but even more importantly I was ignoring the very fabric of our metaphysical reality and inviting destructive influences into my life.
My fourth day in prison was the first day that I was allowed in general population and while in the recreation yard I was approached by a prisoner named Marcus who calmly informed me that as a new prisoner I had been purchased by him for three packs of Winston cigarettes and 8 ounces of Pruno (prison wine). Marcus elaborated further that I could expect to be raped by him on a daily basis and that I had pretty eyes.
Needless to say, I was deeply shocked that my life had sunk to this level. Although I’ve never been homophobic I was discovering that I was very rape phobic and dismayed by my overall personal street value of roughly $15. I returned to my cell and sat very quietly, searching myself for answers on how I could improve my life and distance myself from harmful outside influences. At that point, in what I consider to be a miraculous moment, my cell mate Jim Norton informed me that he knew about the Marcus situation and that he had something that could solve my problems. He handed me a copy of “The Secret”. Normally I wouldn’t have turned to a self help book to resolve such a severe and immediate threat but I literally didn’t have any other available alternatives. I immediately opened the book and began to read.
The first few chapters deal with the essence of something called the “Law of Attraction” in which a primal universal force is available to us and can be harnessed for the betterment of our lives. The theoretical nature of the first few chapters wasn’t exactly putting me at peace. In fact, I had never meditated and had great difficulty with closing out the chaotic noises of the prison and visualizing the positive changes that I so dearly needed. It was when I reached Chapter 6 “The Secret to Relationships” that I realized how this book could help me distance myself from Marcus and his negative intentions. Starting with chapter six there was a cavity carved into the book and in that cavity was a prison shiv. This particular shiv was a toothbrush with a handle that had been repeatedly melted and ground into a razor sharp point.
The next day in the exercise yard I carried “The Secret” with me and when Marcus approached me I opened the book and stabbed him in the neck. The next eight weeks in solitary confinement provided ample time to practice positive visualization and the 16 hours per day of absolute darkness made visualization about the only thing that I actually could do. I’m not sure that everybody’s life will be changed in such a dramatic way by this book but I’m very thankful to have found it and will continue to recommend it heartily.
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That Schirmer guy is one of those people who has attempted for years to cast himself as a virtuous person and he has claimed numerous times to be the victim of a supposed conspiracy again him, sadly for him the more he speaks the less people like him and trust him because the more obvious it becomes that leopards dont change their spots but they do try to outrun their prey. I have discovered that over the years he has moved from being an expert and guru of share market trading to an expert and guru of personal development then on to an expert and guru of religion and the latest is an expert and guru of marketing which he appears to be co joining with the religious flavor possibly to somehow make it palatable (marketable) to the American public. These people will try anything to make a buck and they seem relentless in their pursuit for self gratification. Its just a pity they didn’t put as much purposeful energy into something as satisfying as being a heart surgeon or any other really “life changing” profession. Instead they choose the path that cheats take of finding “things” to market that dont require any qualifications and in an industy that has no regulations and then to make it all seem quite legit they add the words”god inspired”. The most outstanding quality that people like this have is charm, they seem to be able to charm their way into anyone and anything and it is almost always a very temporary high for them. Frankly I have to agree with others and feel very strongly that these people need psychiatric help.
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Hau, my english name is Steven, and I am Not a Native (disrespectful to anyone over 35)I am a American Indian, and I am very appalled and take offense with People and the News calling this a Sweat Lodge!!! THIS IS NOT A SWEAT LODGE this is a glorified and dangerous SAUNA! I am of the Lakota (Sioux), of the Kul Weichasha and Minniconjou Bands. I am also of Irish and French Indian Decent of very well known Lakota Leaders (Chiefs- is not a respectful way of saying this). I am not a spiritual Leader by any means, but I of have grown up with both Cristianity and of the Cerimonies performed in a tradition cerimoney.
First of all: There would never be 59 people in a cerimony.
Second: The way that I was taught as a child and young man, that women are not allowed in these cerimonies unless it is for the women only.
Third: When women are at the cerimony they are the fire keepers and servers only, by tradition.
Fourth: Their are only certain amount of rocks to be used.
Fifth: There is only a certain way to apply water to the rocks.
Sixth: There are only four times that the doors are opened.
Seventh: There are NO, what James A. Ray calls WINDOWS, in a sweat.
Eighth: there are four Songs that have to be sung and I have only ever heard up to 13 songs ever used.
Ninth: I have heard that there was a video made depicting what a sweat lodge is constructed with and how to perform these cerimonies. This is disheartining to a Lakota, as this is our religious practice and not of any other tribes unless they are plains indians, who traditonally are the only ones who practiced in this way.
Tenth: There are even Lakotas who don’t know the religion unless they learned it in the BIG HOUSE and there are things that are changed and left out or added too make the Prisons happy.
When you add all this up there should be charges brought against any one that is ruining our religion and charging people. There are people who are indian and use Sweat Lodges, but most of them either run way too many doors, wrong songs, and do not know the true way of setting up or running a sweat. In my whole life, my Great Great Grandmother her daughter and in my G-Ma’s life of whom I knew all of them and My Great Grandfater and G-Pa, of whom I also knew, I have never heard of people dying in a true run SWEAT. THIS IS DESPICTABLE and should be stopped unless it is on a reservation or run by a Spiritual Leader, as we do not have too many TRUE WICHASA WAKANS left. If you were not raised in this religion >LEAVE IT ALONE< Pilamiyelo DOKSHA
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Thank you Wanbli for coming here and clearing up that this was no sweat lodge and nothing close to American Indian cultures of any sort.
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The Lakota people wrote and passed a “Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality” back in 1993.
http://www.aics.org/war.html
The very first resolution states, “We hereby and henceforth declare war against all persons who persist in exploiting, abusing and misrepresenting the sacred traditions and spiritual practices of our Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people.”
Ray’s actions have been so repulsive on so many levels, it’s getting hard to catalog them all.
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Schirmer is a fucking wanker. It looks like he designs everything to try to justify what he has done in the past. He must have one fucking guilty conscience because so many people hate him now. He seems to be attempting to very charismatically try to win pe0ple over by his usual methods of parrotting his own understanding of everything while he silently screws them by telling them to buy all his stuff, go to all his courses,etc.. I bet he has no fucking intentions of doing anything good for the poor people he screwed over or the people he is about to screw over. He has become so predictable and now he is trying to run videos on his interpretation of the bible and how to use it in business when the guy is nothing but a bloody fraud and user. His ego is humongous, god help him if anyone tells him he’s wrong. I guess his little daily wanker insights will cease because he won’t be able to handle whats going to get thrown back at him. The guy makes me vomit hes so full of his own shit.
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Not only are “The Secret” and the Law of Attraction absolute utter worthless bullshit,
but ALL rituals and traditions serve only ONE purpose: ENTERTAINMENT! FUN!
It does not matter whether they are “Native American” traditions,
christian traditions, cultural traditions, military traditions.
At least the tradition of a high school or college graduation celebrates an actual accomplishment.
Traditions are all fine and fun. But, the instant they cause a grave injustice:
whether it’s a death in a sweat lodge,
the torture and murder of animals in a bullfight or barbeque,
or the separation of sexes in education
then those traditions and the subhuman garbage that defend and support
those murderous unjust traditions MUST be ANNIHILATED completely.
I would be hypocritical if I were to preach to people not to have fun,
as I go off tomorrow to celebrate Halloween in New York City.
Halloween is the only holiday worth celebrating, as far as I’m concerned.
But, at least I KNOW that I am doing it ONLY for fun.
At least I am not torturing or causing unjust economic opportunities,
such as banning homosexuals from marrying and raising children,
or banning women from voting.
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preach on!
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Who is Schirmers latest wanker of a sidekick? Imagine choosing Schirmer to mirror ROFLMAO10x. Schirmer the little fat evil man whose secret buddies dont appear to want anything to do with. Everybody knows he deletes comments that people write about him that he doesnt like and he rates and favourites his own youtubes. Poor little fat ugly guy, so many people hate him and he can’t work out why. He hasn’t even changed clothes the smelly little wanker. His sidekick seems clueless about what he is talking about, he just looks like hes making up shit as he goes along so it looks impressive. Schirmer is looking more old and unhappy by the day and hes trying so hard to make the world believe he knows everything about everything, god i’m believable. Why spend so much time talking about such shit instead of doing some real work. Those guys need to get out on a road gang and really do some work to knock the shit out of them. They aren’t company I would want to be in, boring at batshit. They think they know everything, they hate being questioned because they are always right and they spend their days talking shit out their asses. Who would want that for company?
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very funny, they got the message because they changed their clothes from the last few videos, phew thank god for that the stink spread over to here. What a load of bullshit they go on with and i doubt that they have a million between them doh, thats obvious. Anyone who does and is genuine is not found crapping on about that sort of stuff that those guys do. Schirmer is also doing the usual piss poor sell like all these personal development people, by trying to justify the outrageous prices they charge for what can only be described as packaged bullshit. They are wankers and they know it and they would be surprised just how many people can’t wait to see the last of their shadows. Schirmer is trying his hardest to hold onto the little bit of ear he has left of a very few people because he has completely lost all credibility and respect in pretty much every area hes worked. The guy is a human chameleon who is full of spite and hate and the sudden fake christian take on life is a complete coverup and obviously designed to try to win people over again so his cycle of suck and steal can start over again. He has been called much worse by people who know him. the guy cannot be trusted.
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Schirmers obviously a keen admirer of Saltys blog (all egotistical scammers suffer paranoia)
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Schirmer has his eye on Salty’s favorite girlfriends, Harlan K and his famous Christian Mind Blowing BJ’s and Perry B, the asteroid hater.
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I think Schirmer has his eyes on all girlfriends and wives and daughters doesn’t he, the sleaze bag low life. These types who make so make so many stupid claims are the ones who have the greatest challenges in many areas. The guy is so transparent you can see every evil movement. Shameless shitface of a human being.
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Digusting person, completely disgusting. My guess is that he is complaining because he doesnt like the comeuppance he’s getting. There isn’t a shred of true christianity in this. If the man did nothing wrong then there wouldn’t be any detractors.
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Have you seen this guys latest video on youtube? There you go you wanker given you a bit of FREE publicity you should thank me. But before you do I have something I want to say, so listen up now.
Firstly there he is at it again, claiming his slimy sidekick has bought in over $33million of sales. Wheres the fucking proof you loser and dont you think by now that the whole world knows you love using ancy fancy words and biiiiiiig numbers? You idiot, you are so predictable you fucking user loser. Use your mates figures and know he’ll take the fall for it not you. I bet you have already stolen his 1,000 clients (you seem to have memorised how many clients he has) and promised him the world knowing that you can’t fucking keep a promise anyway. Oh yes I know your type, all charm and promises while you are silently taking what you want and then when you get it you deny every fucking thing you ever promised. Too many have fallen for your types crap before.
Then his next best advice is to tell people to double what they charge. Ok so fuck you Schirmer. You go to the Doctor and he charges you his fee you pay because you know its fair and reasonable, he doesn’t fucking double it just because he thinks he is sooooooo much better than someone else or his ego is so fucking big. I bet if that happened you would not pay it anyway you are the type who would use him, charm the receptionist and promise to pay and even probably give a date, take the service and never pay right? I know your type your ego and dishonesty is killing you. That is why we have regulations and businesses who really are credible still operating not just surviving like you probably are because people don’t fucking subscribe to the Schirmer type greedy egotistical parasitic waste of ideas and wonder why no0one likes them. I reckon if you have to charge double to operate a business you have a major problem to start with and should start looking at yourself and what you are doing and how you are treating abusing people.
” Well iiiiiii dont think people can be too nice” Fuck yeah, everyone has been way too nice to you you wanker, keep it up and look out you wont know whats around the corner. If you care about people you will give a shit what you are charging them if you dont care you will charge whatever your fucking ego thinks you are worth and then you go crying to mommy when people complain about the service they got for the money they spent and they hate you.
Your type is a shitface actress Schirmer.
Then at the end he gets all excited and tells people to ring his fucking sidekick? Oh we arent awake to that one are we you fucking wanker. Why the fuck would we ring him? Because he probably bringing in the fucking money for Schirmer thats why. You want people to do business with you you fucking wanker, how about you be the face behind the $’s and the phone and then see how many people want to do business with you. Oh that would be asking too much wouldn’t it, you being responsible for what you say? Oh god shit no. You guys are all wankers hiding behind your pr people and not facing the music like people I fucking call christians. What a waste of time and space. These guys all operate the same and it pisses me off.
I have a mentor who I paid around $2000 to do a course with. I did it with him using his material, he is responsible to me and will answer every question I have immediately without delay or excuse. I have service for life if I need it and I get a report, every week without exception. There are genuine people out there who aren’t out to make a million out of you just because their ego thinks they can. Get a life not an ego, its way more fun and pays well.
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LOL very poignant. Isnt he one who uses NLP in his workshops and marketing? I’ve listened to his videos in the past and he frequently uses words like “challenge” “faith” “passion” “love” “visualise” “success” etc. All things he appears to have real problems with. Not sure I would be seen doing any videos with him but testament to the guys power at getting someone under his spell I guess. Hit rate is startling too, real popular huh, quite funny really. Something about the guy never really made me feel comfortable. As the saying goes if it seems too good to be true it usually is.
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Yep as predictable as my morning S S S.
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LOL Schirmer is on a video talking about wasting time on social networking HOW FUCKING IRONIC IS THAT?
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Yeah spend one day a week designing your day, wanker. Waste your bloody time loving yourself. Schirmers sidekick looks like he thinks his boss is a wanker too actually he looks and speaks way better than that Schirmer dude. I’m enjoying that idiots videos because they make me laugh, lots.
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LOL Schirmer says to his sidekick the he would be better at measuring money than Schirmer so his offsider says I use a thing called the HONESTY FACTOR LOL, that is a bloody joke when Schirmer is involved. Schirmer does his usual stutter and splutter and crap on. God those guys are so focused on money arent they and guess what THATS WHY THEY ARE LOSERS. Hey Schirmer how about you measure your fucking debts to people, you wanker
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the guy has a pea for a brain but a melon for a head do the math on the rest
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What qualifications does this Schirmer guy have? I can’t find any anywhere. all I can find is that he has been to court lots in the last few years and Bob Proctor flicked him off like a shitty little bug on his sleeve. Snort snort.
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NONE it seems!
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when the secret movie came out that guy was saying stuff like its the victims fault if things aren’t going right because their own negative thoughts bring it on and its their own fault but when things went bad for him it was always someone elses fault. He always encouraged people to shun anyone who did not believe the same as him (or he was hoping they would believe him) because they just had negative thoughts. the guy is a screwball and obviously not an honest one either. if you go through life not acknowledging the negatives then you are blind to every single experience that God has put in front of you and you will never learn the lessons you need to learn to be a good and righteous person. i dont believe mr schirmer is a good or sincere person in fact i think he is shameless.
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He is just repeating over and over and over again the same crap that once made these guys millions. Those days are over and now they look bloody fools. What pisses me off more than anything is that stupid thing these guys do when they wank, they have an AHA moment. I will never again be able to hear that shit and not think that they are just wankers. Who the hell made up that pathetic term anyway? AHA, AHA, AHA, AHA, AHA, AHA, Oh shit AHA
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Schirmer suffers SCRUPULOCITY.
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Pathological liars, or “mythomaniacs,” may be suffering from histrionic personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder. The following comments basically reflect a pathological liar who has the characteristics of histrionic personality disorder.
Some characteristics
1. Exaggerates things that are ridiculous.
2. One-upping. Whatever you do, this person can do it better. You will never top them in their own mind, because they have a concerted need to be better than everyone else. This also applies to being right. If you try to confront an individual like this, no matter how lovingly and well-intentioned you might be – this will probably not be effective. It’s threatening their fantasy of themselves, so they would rather argue with you and bring out the sharp knives than admit that there’s anything wrong with them.
3. They “construct” a reality around themselves. They don’t value the truth, especially if they don’t see it as hurting anyone. If you call them on a lie and they are backed into a corner, they will act very defensively and say ugly things (most likely but depends on personality), but they may eventually start to act like, “Well, what’s the difference? You’re making a big deal out of nothing!” (again, to refocus the conversation to your wrongdoing instead of theirs).
4. Because these people don’t value honesty, a lot of times they will not value loyalty. So watch what you tell them. They will not only tell others, but they will embellish to make you look worse. Their loyalty is fleeting, and because they are insecure people, they will find solace in confiding to whomever is in their favor at the moment.
5. They may be somewhat of a hypochondriac. This can come in especially useful when caught in a lie, for example, they can claim that they have been sick, or that there’s some mysteriously “illness” that has them all stressed out. It’s another excuse tool for their behavior.
6. Obviously, they will contradict what they say. This will become very clear over time. They usually aren’t smart enough to keep track of so many lies (who would be?).
LMAO, true true true true true true.
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Narcissist came up as soon as David Schirmer was exposed on national tv in Australia. It seems that he demonstrates all the characteristics of this type of person. These sorts of people apparently don’t recognise the symptoms in themselves so unless something really drastic happened to him like he was locked up or taken to the cleaners by the authorities, this guy won’t learn his lesson. I believe when he started out he saw good in what he was trying to teach but he did it without any credibility or qualifications and saw no reason why he shouldn’t charge a bloody fortune for it, thats where he came unstuck. You can’t expect anyone to pull a tooth and call themselves a dentist, charge dentist prices and have happy customers, it just aint going to happen. We live in a society of litigation and denial which i what keeps most people honest, just not some.
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Greedy moron!
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One schirmer pages not pulled yet http://www.businesswealthcoach.com/david.html fools.
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Easy to make money the Schirmer Shiester way just take everyones money, give them peanuts and promises, wrack up huge debts and never pay anyone then claim to be a FAITHWALKING CHRISTIAN. Wanker!
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Schirmers LATEST sidekick says this ”Thx for living in the most amazing times that this world has EVER known. The technology, knowledge, opportunities. What a privilege! Thx!” How fucking LAME is that quote, seriously. What fucking choices does he think people have you bloody wanker. Hey newsflash, people are BORN at a certain time. Thats sad, really sad and I bet he’s getting milked for every inch he can be.
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LOSER!! ::
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Perolyxitichydrocholorifial Reply:
December 10th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Konatanonymous or whatever your alias is supposed to be, go fuck yourself until you choke on your own vomit. You have some nerve telling people what to do with their grief you cold, soulless chunk of leprosy.
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Yellow Dog Reply:
December 10th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
bet kona is pat o’bryan any takers? gotz $ on it
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@Konatanonymous
Congratulations (spoken in a distinctly sarcastic tone).
In this one comment, you managed to express that no one who has ever manipulated others should ever face retribution, or responsibility, for what they manipulate others into doing for them.
For example, Charles Manson continues to argue that his followers weren’t acting on his suggestions at all, that he is innocent and should not be in prison for their actions. By your logic, he should be left alone, because the grief stricken family of Sharon Tate et. al. would be better off if the world had not focused on punishing Manson, but rather provide loving hugs and kisses to help them “get over it” faster.
Plus, anyone who dares focus on Manson as the CAUSE of the family’s pain is labeled a “heckler” according to you.
I guess you’re right. We should all just ignore James Arthur Ray, so the families of the deceased will be able to get over their grief faster. What were we thinking? After all, we’re not helping anyone by pointing out the facts or anything.
Debating JAR’s complicity and direct personal responsibility for causing the DEATHS of his followers does nothing but stir up problems, right?
Wow.
Just….Wow.
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SD Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
@NameNot :: thanks for replying to that psycho bullshit. Some of the comments surrounding the James Ray tragedy {not just here} have been totally mind boggling :: and that’s coming from someone has become very acclimatized to crazy comments. There is comment much like this one on AF Grants infamous Colleen post :: it made me want to poke my eyes out. It makes me wonder if this situation might be even worse then I imagine it to be … and my imaginings were already pretty dang dark.
@Konatanonymous :: A heckler is someone … much like yourself … who shows up drunk and shouts out stupid shit that’s goes against the overall flow of the event. They add nothing :: and waste their breath. You’ve misidentified me to your peril :: Think of me instead as a “Spiritual Warrior” {if you will} who comes not with peace but a sword. As a mutual friend of ours might say “energy flows where attention goes.” Well you cloaked in black soul suckers have my attention :: good luck dealing with my “energy” assholes.
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If I may reply to Konatanonymous:
Some of your points are well taken. However, you completely overlook the issue of mind control.
Consider doing some reading on cults before you blame the folks trying to hold James Ray accountable for what he has done.
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This is all so simple – JAR teaches it himself-
HE ATTRACTED THIS RESULT INTO HIS OWN LIFE.
So he must have some very messed up thinking he is emotionalizing.
and according to his own teaching we are all 100% accountable for everything that happens to us or through us.
For him to say he doesn’t understand how this happenned or say (as he claims now) it was an accident – would mean he just plain doesn’t believe
what he is teaching.
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[...] tour :: business as usual. A PR cock-up that earned him no money :: but did earn him an irritated Salty Droid {has it been worth it so far fat [...]
He is a total “greed” and “fraud” not an example of abundance, it looks bad for the real spirituality, healing. It’s sickening… People need to be responsible and start listening to their hearts and intuition.
Karma is karma anyway…
Blessings and awakening to all
Lilly
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his mouthpiece says his meds didn’t contribute to the arizona tradgedy-thats like saying hitlers meth use didnt contribute to the lengthening of WWII (‘tho there were other factors)
btw about his med list – hope it includes lots of preparation-h for his jail time-harmonic sodomy indeed!
maybe theres still some zyklon-b for his own private sweat lodge….
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I am very interested in this topic because my wife and I, pretty experienced Catholics who are hard to fool, were indeed fooled by the New Thought movement.
I would like to start by saying this:
Whether you are Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, or Aetheist…
Run…run hard far and and fast from any one, any book, or any “siritual center” that preaches this rhetoric.
They are all scam artists who like to pick and choose from accepted religious philosophies in order to string together a mosh of BS designed to mess with your mind and fish through your wallet.
For thoses who actually believe in sincere spirituality this is a particularly dangerous menace because they will take familiar philosophies that your faith most likley invented, and twist them to suit their purposes of mind control and wealth attainment, thus forever tainting your original beliefs with their twisted version of the same.
This James Arther Ray is nothing more than par for the course. These churches, Unity, Sciences of Mind, The Spiritual Center of yadda yadda…and so forth abound with “James Arthur Rays”.
They all have their little books to sell, they are all self proclaimed teachers healers and ministers…the “Law of Attraction” is used as an excuse to blame any dishonest or abusive treament coming from their actions upon you…the vulnerable student.
Please don’t fall for this crap. My wife was almost killed by one of these so called energy healers…it cost us more than a hundred thousand dollars of money we didn’t really have just to turn back to conventional medicine in order to save her life.
By God’s grace she is now fine…but it was a matter of life and death.
Of course the attitude from the so call leaders who had swindled us was…”well she created this for herself”
Satan worshippers are more honest and spiritual than these idiots.
Run far and fast.
Feel free to email me in private about details.
Thanks for reading.
WINNER!! ::
+7
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SD Reply:
March 30th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
@MJC ::
Thanks for the comment.
I totally agree with you that JAR is just a representative of a much much bigger problem. Exploiting people’s natural desire to seek spirituality :: warping religious traditions to suit purely selfish ends :: toying with people’s deeply rooted fears. It’s all very horrible. If there was some way to measure and assess the magnitude of the destruction and harm … it would be an eye popping figure.
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[...] enough to be embarrassing. My highly tuned GaucheSensor™ picked up on the thumb ring bullshit JAR-Day-1. I mean seriously :: who the fuck wears a thumb ring? Thumbs are for doing important [...]
So far there has not been much said about drugs and chemicals in relation to James Ray. Quite surprising, since he tried to emulate various shamanic traditions, which all of them include partaking of the sacred sacraments. These are considered hallucinogens and have been used by Harvard medical studies.
Perhaps the people that died were under the influence of very powerful drugs that changed their state of mind to the point of being hyper susceptible to suggestion. These people may not even have known they were taking anything, as it is easy to infuse them into tea drinks or food.
These drugs, or medicine as they are called by the real shaman, are much more powerful than any drugs you can get off the street or in a hospital and they can be life changing. Many of the plants that they come from are not even known to the mainstream population.
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stoic Reply:
July 10th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
@2H2+Co3=-(x*y),
There were autopsies conducted on the victims, no drugs or other toxicities found.
James Arthur Ray used thought reform techniques on the ‘spiritual warriors’, the same that are used by any LGAT such as Landmark, Impact etc. Tony Robbins, Byron Katie do the same. No drugs required.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450
JAR of course shot himself up daily with all manner of anabolic steroids and had tried some of the entheogens. We can only be glad that he was too cheap to use ayahuasca or ibogaine to give his followers that elusive ‘spiritual’ experience they’d paid so much for–with his negligent attitude there’d have been even more deaths and long term psychoses.
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Jean D Reply:
July 11th, 2010 at 11:49 am
@2H2+Co3=-(x*y), The forensic toxicology tests ruled out the presence of drugs or toxicities in the victims’ bodies. Also,the environment was tested and no toxic chemicals were found. We have discussed Ray’s abuse of Ayahausca on this and other blogs,but there’s no evidence he dosed people. The injuries and deaths were caused by high temperatures,fire,and rapid rising of steam. Have you ever steamed crabs in a pot? They scratch around for a while,then they stop. James Ray did this same thing to healthy,viable human beings in what Cassandra Yorgey called the “human oven” months ago.Three of those people lost their lives,several are permanently injured physically,all are damaged psychologically and emotionally.
In response to your comment about “shaman use sacred sacraments”
1) the word “shaman” does not exist outside Eastern Mongolia. If you hear anyone use it,he/she is a fraud.Anthropologists began to use it loosely to describe “medicine men and women” throughout the world,then NewAgers/NewWagers latched on to the term and have marketed it.
2) James Ray was not trained as a “shaman”.That’s a big bag of crap. He,like many drug addicts, simply went down to S.America on a regular basis to get high and “feel like he was going to die”. The Ayahuasca ceremonial stuff in S. America is a big fake sham. It’s well-documented that some poor folks in Peru and Brazil have discovered a way to feed and clothe themselves and their families by making teas from Ayahuasca and holding “ceremonies”. Just like the cocaine farmers, the unfortunate demand for drugs by foreigners has helped some poor people survive.
Drug tourism was rampant in previous decades in the Middle East,India,and Asia where drug tourists sought opium and hashish. Out of those countries also came numerous faux religious and spiritual teachers who still profit from the “gullible seeker” today. S America is somewhat safer and cheaper to visit and the market has been ever-expanding. I’ll be more than happy to provide links to everything I’ve posted on this topic.
3) In real Native American sweat lodges there is NO consumption of mind-altering drugs. That is a hippie/New Age perpetuated myth. The Native American Church is allowed to use peyote,but sweat lodges are not NA Church meetings. Mind altering substances are unknown to Native American traditions. Currently, Native American groups and lawmakers are trying to stop this misinformation and seek out “plastic shaman” scammers.Lawmakers are already looking at legislation aimed at prohibiting and sanctioning those who imitate and profit from Native American cultures.
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Anonymous Reply:
September 22nd, 2010 at 8:48 am
@Jean D, you stated “The Ayahuasca ceremonial stuff in S. America is a big fake sham” surely you have first hand experience with Ayahuasca and the ceremonial “stuff” that goes along with it to make such a bold statement, no?
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Yakaru Reply:
September 22nd, 2010 at 2:13 pm
@ Anon,
That was not a bold statement. Everything else Ray does is a big fake sham, as he has amply demonstrated.
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Anonymous Reply:
September 22nd, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Yakaru, Hi Yakaru, thanks for chiming in, but James Ray is definitely not the originator of any of the ayahuasca ceremonies, just like he’s not the originator of sweat lodges. To just dismiss these spiritual tools because someone abused them for their own sick gratification would not be the most efficient.
While there are always fools who for one reason or another abuse these sacred tools and rituals, it’s just not fair to label it all as “bad” or useless.
Traditional ayahuasca ceremonies do not involve money or desperation and instead require a sound state of mind, taking responsibility for your own happiness, willingness to go within and find your own answers, and a good dose of everyday common sense.
James Ray has brought shame on many traditions and he is a disgrace.
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Yakaru Reply:
September 22nd, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@Anon,
Sorry- I didn’t mean to imply that you were defending Ray. I sincerely apologise for any distress caused.
I thought JeanD’s statements were not so much casting doubt on traditional ceremonies as on the marketed version of them.
@JeanD
I’d be interested to see the links you offered to post – interesting comments!
Jean D Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 10:58 am
@, I never said all Ayahuasca ceremonies are fake.What is happening there,and this is documented by people from there and by researchers, is that poor Peruvian or Brazilian people are pretending to “know the ceremony” but they don’t.They are marketing drug tourism. Just because someone is Native doesn’t make him/her knowledgeable about traditions. The rituals and ceremonies are taught to carefully selected very few individuals who have to (a) be in line to learn it (b) lead a life of purity and sacrifice (c) study for years before they can lead a ceremony on their own. The medicine is very sacred and is kept away from the eyes/ears of most people,even from Native Americans who are not deserving. In other words, very few people on the planet are ever allowed to learn Native medicine rituals and very few are allowed to experience them.
There are full blood Natives all over the Americas who market themselves to those who will pay for want “enlightenment” via drugs or ancient ceremonies. That’s the argument with the sweat trap Ray ran at Angel Valley.It was a makeshift,imitation lodge,not traditional at all. It was a James Arthur Ray sweat trap unrelated to anything tribal.
Where do idiots like Ray keep coming from? I guess it is even bigger idiots that make him what he is.
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@Jean D
Would you please provide links to everything you’ve posted on this topic, as you mentioned. Not all you say seems to ring true for me. Some of it, yes, definately, but not all of it.. so would be interested in your source info. Gracias brother/sister :)
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Jean D Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
@yupyupyup, As I was not using the internet when this was posted, didn’t see it. Here are those links about shaman and Ayahuasca scams. @Anonymous And no, I certainly do not have first-hand experience with Ayahuasca. I do not do any drugs, completely against them. I must say that your asking that is one of the most ridiculous questions I’ve ever heard,and I believe in question-asking. It is,after all,nearly 2011. We have access to much information via the web and before that, guess what? We could actually read about people,places,things, and ideas without witnessing them first-hand! Amazing,huh?
Back to the point: In this article read the posts by bad_hiker. He/she describes the S.American scams.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1419845
These are pics from a JAR excursion. Notice the label “Shaman’s Market”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism
This is where I, and others, listened to Ray describing his abuse of DMT and his Ayahuasca experiences in the Brazilian jungle. http://www.newsforthesoul.com/jamesray.htm
It’s no secret James Ray has been using various types of drugs for decades. People who grew up with him in the Tulsa area say he started injecting steroids as young man who wanted to be bigger and better than all the other guys. He has proudly described in interviews how he was a competitive bodybuilder. He dated and married bodybuilder women. Ray abuses substances and human beings (rumors say animals,too). He’s a drug addicted narcissistic sociopath who deserves to be locked away for the rest of his life.
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LOSER!! ::
-6
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wondering why Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
@knowing,
CAMP VERDE — The three people who died after a sweat-lodge event near Sedona last year were victims of heat stroke or hyperthermia, autopsy reports released Tuesday said.
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2010/03/16/20100316sweat-lodge-deaths-autopsy-ruling-CP.html#ixzz18P1H0H00
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Yakaru Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
@knowing,
Another of Ray’s reality-challenged fans. A word of advice, “knowing”: only refer to the white papers if you’re looking for cheap laughs.
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Jean D Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
@Yakaru, Statements like those make me wonder exactly how denial works in the brain that causes certain people to challenge reality.
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wondering why Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
@Jean D,
You got that right..Alls anybody has to do is read the witness statements to see what really happened..James Ray made them stay in an inferno until their bodies could take no more.
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Jean D Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 12:10 am
@wondering why, It will be interesting to watch the zombies surface as the trial begins. I just read some tweets that indicate Ray is telling FB fans to “let go” of negative people. That’s a true cult tactic,so he’s escalating toward corraling a new bunch of followers.
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Hey, Arthur Ray, here’s a thought have you tried to use “The Secret” to get yourself out of this mess. HA HA , burn on you, you fool! ,you are an idiot and a moron GOD has definately humbled you, you thought you were so powerful,GOD has showed you, you have no real power instead start reading the bible and realize what the bible says ” SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND ALL THESE THINGS WILL BE ADDED UNTO YOU” as long as you leave GOD out of the equation you will always fall flat.
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LOSER!! ::
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SD Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 2:33 am
@Steve ::
Were the seminars costing you your marriage … or was it the fact that you’re an asshole?
I’ll bet they both contributed.
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Steve Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
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Stoic Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 2:53 am
@Steve,
You really need to follow the arguments that the prosecution will make in the trial if you want an answer to the question
“Where the fuck is their common sense?”
It leaves by the same door that fear and desperation enters. James Ray is in the business of whipping up that fear and desperation over a long and careful timespan to ensure that these people eventually give him everything–their time, attention, money, adoration and eventually their lives.
Rather than slagging off the victims, you might find it more illuminating to discover WHY they became victims—the techniques James Ray and his LGAT fellows use are powerful and none of us is immune.
Blaming the victim does nothing to prevent you from becoming a victim at some point when you are feeling vulnerable through normal life events.
Education in this is free, apart from the personal attention investment–and it works better in the long run than your obviously desperate and fear-driven bravado.
WINNER!! ::
+7
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422 Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@Stoic, you said : “Rather than slagging off the victims, you might find it more illuminating to discover WHY they became victims—the techniques James Ray and his LGAT fellows use are powerful and none of us is immune.”
So, so, so, so true. Glad you posted that. Quite a few people coming here bashing the people who died, calling them stupid. These people are DEAD, how could you be so damn callous, cruel and ignorant?
Have some respect and compassion, especially for the parents and children of those who died.
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LOSER!! ::
-10
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208-577-6210 Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 7:36 am
@Steve – Reading between the lines of the many, many James Arthur Ray posts…I don’t think Salty has much sympathy for him.
Salty – in the interests of accessibility, you really ought to provide cave paintings alongside the narrative. All these words are clearly stressing Steve out..
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LOSER!! ::
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422 Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@Steve, how can you call anyone stupid when you can’t even spell a 5th-grade reading level word like “riddance” correctly?
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LOSER!! ::
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Wow spell a fifth grade reading level u really made a lot of sense there partner.suck a huge dick.lol
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@ Salty Droid
While I totally appreciate all your hard work and diligence, its a pet peeve when people spell Berkeley wrong. There is an extra E in there mate :)
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SD Reply:
March 13th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
@Chilon~ ::
OMFG!
… and also … I have no idea what you’re talking about.
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LOSER!! ::
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@Eulah Bell,
I have been conducting as well as just sitting in countless lodges for over 20 years. James Ray was completely irresponsible in the way he conducted his lodge. I don’t know if you have heard testimony from the witnesses who participated in his lodge or not but allow me to review the facts of the case with a little bit of my own experience to give perspective albeit my one side but maybe you can see it from your experiential position as well.
First of all JAR spent the entire week drumming into these people about “playing full on” implying that if one were to quit any of the exercises given then it means one will never get ahead in life. He expounded the notion that one was “not their body” again implying that in order to gain spiritual insight one should ignore physical signs of weakness and move past that to gain a *knowing* beyond conventional means. SO having that all in place he poured a lodge that can only be described as hellacious.
There were 50+ people inside which is not greatly unusual as I’ve been in lodges with greater numbers, but he poured 8 rounds which is highly unusual. He had on average 10 glowing red rocks or so brought in each round for a total of approximately 55 and would then take a full 5 gallon bucket of water and dump the entire thing all at once on the rocks and close the door. NO facilitator that I’ve ever seen has ever done that. The water was always poured gently and never dumped on the stones. James Ray did each round with fresh rocks and 5 gallons of water. I maybe go through 5 gallons total for an entire ceremony of only 4 rounds. The door was only open for the time it took to load fresh rocks and to let anyone out or back in which may have been only a few minutes.
In the large lodges that I’ve been in that have been screaming hot the back door is opened between rounds in order for the lodge to cool down and the air to pass through and freshen. James Ray did not ever do that. In fact when he was told that there were people in distress and even had the unconscious dragged out in front of him, he carried on with the lodge and did not stop the proceedings.
When one woman tried to leave as the door was coming down James Ray told her to take a seat and wait for the next time the door was opened. He did not allow her to leave when she tried. Another woman tried to leave and James Ray told her that she wasn’t playing full on and he expected more from her, so she was coerced into staying.
It has been testified to that when a person reaches a certain threshold in hyperthermia then the mind is incapable of making rational decisions. When the mantras of “playing full on” and “you are not your body” is what was deeply imprinted for the days before this event then people were were at a disadvantage for making a rational choice before the lodge even began. He also did a poor job in properly preparing them for the lodge.
Most of the participants had never experienced a sweat lodge before and looked to James Ray for guidance as to what to expect and trusted that he knew what he was doing. He obviously lied about his training because of what happened and the way these people were prepared for it. He told everyone that they might “feel like they were going to die” but he assured them that they would not. He told them to push past that physical attention. He told them that they would “feel sick and that your skin will feel like it’s burning up” but that was normal.
In the lodges that I do, the women are told to wear long loose skirts and tops or dresses. From the pics I’ve seen at the trial the woman were in bathing suits. It may seem ironic but the clothes serve to protect one from the heat. Everyone brings in towels and those too can serve to protect from the heat. I’ve thrown many a towel over my head and shoulders to save me from the heat. I saw no one take towels into Ray’s lodge.
Now compare that to what your experience was and perhaps you can see that James Ray was in complete charge of the event and could have stopped things when it was going wrong. He did not do that. If he had and there was still death and injury then it might have been called a tragic accident but because he carried on even though he knew there were people in trouble then he is entirely culpable for his actions which in this case amount to reckless manslaughter.
[Reply]
LaVaughn Reply:
May 9th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@Rubies, And even all that conduct in the sweat lodge itself were acceptable, which it’s not, the fact that he was told that there were people who were not breathing and that they needed a cellphone to call 911 and his response was to shrug his shoulders gives the lie. People. Not. Breathing. Then minutes later he’s seen talking on a cellphone and not to 911?!! Man takes thousands of dollars from people then does nothing when he learns some of them aren’t breathing. That’s manslaughter.
And Eulah Belle, it is a reckless manslaughter charge; not a murder charge.
[Reply]
Rubies Reply:
May 9th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
@LaVaughn,
Oh yeah there is all of that as you said as well. Although it has never been proven that the cell phone was James Ray’s, but given from what I understand of the man I cannot imagine that his cell phone is never more than a few inches away from him at any one time. It may have even gone into the lodge with him, perhaps a special *sweat* edition.
The fact that Debbie Mercer approached JAR and told him that 911 needed to be called because of the condition of two people and JAR NEVER asked what was going on or even inquired to know who these people were makes him culpable of depraved indifference at the very least, which is also a manslaughter charge.
[Reply]
LaVaughn Reply:
May 9th, 2011 at 8:48 pm
@Rubies, Whether or not it was his phone, he didn’t use it to call 911. At that point he wouldn’t have known for sure that 911 had been called. The man shrugged his shoulders. People who paid him thousands of dollars were tending to other people who paid him thousands of dollars while sat in the shade and shrugged. He needs to go to jail.
[Reply]
Kalista7 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 1:15 am
@Rubies & @Eulah Bell, I agree with Rubies – JR’s sweatlodge was nothing like I’ve ever attended, and I never saw anyone sick afterwards. As Debbie Mercer says: “Because when people are unconscious, they don’t have free will. When people can’t get their body to move, even if they wanted to, they don’t have free will.”
http://www.youtube.com/user/SaltyDroid2#p/a/u/2/vku7eO21EZs
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Not to change the subject, but the pic of the Droid at the desk of JAR totally cracks me up…
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….he shrugged his shoulders when told people were in trouble….ah yes, so classically narcissistic..
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LOSER!! ::
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It could happen to anyone Reply:
October 18th, 2011 at 7:50 am
@Joe mama,
Including you, it seems, as you’ve just commented. How drearily predictable.
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Well, I’m very LATE finding this and wish I had before. I went to see James at one of his free seminars near us; in fact, it wasn’t really free because I missed a night of work, and I didn’t get paid sick days.
I started following him on the web for a bit, got on the e-mail list and thought he was sorta ‘there.’…so I’d written an article about him coming in, on one of the news agencies I write for. My ID is just my ID, so I’d rather not share it.
I contacted one of his girls in NY and let her know the article was up, and sent her the link. She was really, very nice as well as appreciative.
So, to make a long story shorter, ;)…I get to the Hilton Hotel, and the lines were pretty long. Who wouldn’t for free. Turns out at the end it was all a big pitch for this Sweat Lodge date.
The couple I sat next to didn’t get thrilled about it, and when I looked around, while he was taking questions and handshakes, I noticed a LOT of people weren’t buying it. He spewed the same dribble for free on line, so there wasn’t anything new.
What really got me is when he looked at the line for people giving up deposits to go, and it was ‘very short.’ So out loud he states, “Com’on people! This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I don’t know when I would have the opportunity to do this again!” (A foreboding OPEN DOOR for the Universe?)
To me, it sounded as though he was pleading; and believe me, I head that from several people there. Then I figured I’d get in line and introduce myself. I never wrote articles for ‘coming attractions’ as it were; but he seemed a bit different and I thought I’d give it a shot.
So then my turn came. I did my intro…told him who I was. He says to me, “Well which of my staff did you speak with in NY?” I told him, and he said…”Well, that’s not possible. It had to be someone else.” I said, “No, it was so and so.” Then when I went to ask him a question, he cocked his head to the right, and his li’l black haired ‘chicky’ standing on his left literally ‘grabs my sleeve’ and pulls me from the line, raises her voice high enough for everyone to hear…”I said THANK YOU!!” And I mean this witch ‘yanked me out.’
I’m standing there thinking, what the hell is up with this? Freakin’ JERKS! Needless to say, I suppose it was better that she did. I walked back to my row, and the young girl in line behind me got 5 minutes. THAT’s what he was looking for…those that didn’t have a brain…and looked better.
I spoke with the people in the seat next to me, and they asked me what the heck that was all about? I told them maybe they’re pissed that I wrote that he was coming, and HE didn’t approve it. She asked me my name and I told her, and they both said, “I read your article and that’s how I knew to come.” Shit…he was public, and I write for an on line paper. Why wouldn’t I try to say something.
Well the folks around me got wise to him and knew he was looking for suckers that wanted to pay the price. We all walked out together, and there was quite a group; and the line he expected never did evolve from that performance.
To finish I’ll say this much; EVERYTHING they are teaching you can get for FREE. Go online to Forgotten Books.org. You can read all their esoteric stuff for free, and if you want the primo copies, you can pay $49 a year and get ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that info for that. OR, you can purchase them on Amazon. There’s also one about how to make the real Philosophizer’s Stone, because it does exist. It’s at the very top of their pages; it’s free and a clear copy. The guy will even send you updates if you give your e-mail address; without spam with it. Just updates. THEN, go out and get yourselves a copy of “The Celestine Prophecy” along with “The Tenth Insight,” AND the “Eleventh Insight.” I found out that maybe the journey to Peru this guy took was not real…but the Insights sure are.
Another thing I found out is that ALL these butt heads, from Joe Vitale, Bob Proctor, Rhonda Byrne did NOT find what “The Secret” was from “The Science of Getting Rich.” Most of it came directly from “The Celestine Prophecy.” Even Joe Vitale’s “GETTING CLEAR”. (This book was published in 1993. They’re ‘rewriting’ out of print material, in which the copywrite has run out, and they’re taking applause for it; and making SUCKERS out of everyone. I’ve stopped their e-mails after I read TCP. And there are plenty of others they steal from and call it their discovery.
Everything is being sold to folks in bits and pieces…like chapters out of the bible, to those who are silly enough to continue to follow them; it’s a SCAM…a REHASH of stuff going all the way back to 1825. Vitale is telling people that he paid hundreds for these books, when you can download them for free, if you want. You can get on their list for clear copy, free downloads daily, in fact. You wanna GET CLEAR?? As Vitale says…then don’t buy his stuff bit by crumby bit…grab TCP, and the 10th and 11th insight. I found “The Tenth Insight” at Salvation Army Store a few blocks from me. I stopped there, not even sure what I was looking for; I just went. I didn’t see anything I wanted, so I looked at all the books and there it was, sticking out for me…and cost me $1.50 and it’s in perfect condition.
You want the help of the universe…all you gotta do is just ‘give in’ and ask…and you ‘shall receive.’
I’m glad I never actually bought the scammer’s books, and read them at the library; and had I not read them…I never would have been the wiser about how they called the info a secret…when people only need to ask.
I’m only very sorry I never saw these posts before this. In my ‘legal opinion’ (degree) James Ray should have gotten 3 consecutive sentences for Negligent Homicide, of at least 9 years. As a judge, whether he did community service or not…doesn’t matter. He’s still an asshole as far as I’m concerned. I don’t care about my issue…it just kept me from being stupid and going. I care about those who died, and he stood there like a pansy-ass kid, all confused. He stood there because he didn’t expect the blow-back from being a conceded idiot. The rest of the so called ‘gurus’ haven’t felt it yet…but they will…they left ALL KINDS of ‘back door’ blow-back options open. They just haven’t had their turn yet. :D
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Cesare Bonventre Reply:
September 25th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
@enochseyes3, Sheeple are eager to give anything to the master that promises to hold-them-by-the-hand in life!
By the way, as a result of the MF Global fraud, the Appellate court ruled this year that the US FDIC no longer must cover any financial losses due to bank fraud!
So who is your personal savior now?
[Reply]
People should star beleiving in God and Gods promises and stop beleiving in an ambicious idiot that promises bullshit!!
Start looking for the thruth in God!
[Reply]
Cesare Bonventre Reply:
September 25th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
@Jamice, how is your ‘god’ better than James Earl Ray?
You are simply another sheeple eager to follow some self proclaimed Messiah!
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
September 26th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
@Jamice,
People should start using spell and grammar check.
[Reply]
How is James Ray’s bullshit different from religious bullshit?
May I suggest that looking for the truth in god (probably fantasy) is behind what gets people in trouble looking for get rich quick schemes (definitely fantasy).
An slightly-increased application of our god-given reason might be just the antidote to the all other James Rays out there.
[Reply]
Peter Reply:
January 9th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
@lapsed idiot,
I guess it isn’t really that different than religious “bullshit”.
As long as by “religious bullshit” you’re referring to ten thousand dollar kill fests of sweat, preceded by promises of real wealth here on Earth in exchange for real cash.
Most religions don’t promise to teach you how to get rich in exchange for your monies. Most religions don’t incorporate upsells and boiler rooms.
Not trying to instigate a “God is dead.” “No he’s not.” “Yes he is. All religion is evil”. debate.
Just stating that James Arthur Ray happily pretends to be something he isn’t, sells people on the something he isn’t, and then kills them while still pretending to be the something they’re paying him to be {which he isn’t}.
The stories about Zarathustra/Jesus/Buddha etc. holding Certified Speaking Certificates and charging hundreds of dollars an hour for phone calls seem to have been omitted from the history books…
…maybe they just had better PR guys than James Arthur Ray…
[Reply]
Cesare Bonventre Reply:
September 25th, 2012 at 11:23 pm
@Peter, Most religions promise enlightenment and happiness – and the ability to get your soul into heaven.
Most religions, coincidentally, preach self victimization which is the central theme of James Earl Ray’s scam. The only difference is that in the very end, religion promises a mansion in the sky; while James Earl Ray promises a mansion in Hollywood Hills!
Ironically, CEO’s and Politicians victimize the sheeple with the same self-sacrifice followed by promises of avarice!
For over 10K years, the sheeple have never wavered in their vulnerability to these promises – Because deep down inside, sheeple want others to hold-their-hand in life!
[Reply]
What the what Reply:
September 26th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
@Cesare Bonventre,
For what it’s worth, I am 98% certain that, in a discussion thread on this site someone (@Lanna maybe?) linked to a stat that showed many people who get sucked into a JAR type group of doom are often people with a higher education. On the Freakonomics site they link to a study/paper by an economist who found that increases in education correlate to a decreased likelihood in participation and/or identifying with any religion.
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/04/25/does-more-education-lead-to-less-religion/
However, none of these address how being raised religious and then turning away from it or lapsing from it might affect how one views the McSpirituality industry.
In addition, nearly every study that I have come across about happiness report that participating in religion is correlated to a higher level of life satisfaction and happiness.
I don’t think there is any evidence (that we have seen here) one way or the other to allow us to definitively say that belief in God or religious participation causes or correlates to following someone like JAR. (I would really love to see whether anyone has studied this and what they found).
What I will say, is that it feels good to be able to point to a certain group or action (especially if we don’t identify with that group) and say “That there is what leads you to JAR (or someone like him)”. Because that lets us feel like we might be safe from it. What I think we can say for sure is that it’s our humanness, our ability to want to be better for ourselves and for each other (on the one hand) or our ability to feel lost and alone (on the other hand) that can get us caught up with someone like JAR.
[Reply]
The selfish help industry is the biggest playground for frauds around because it is not regulated. Everyone of those selfish help frauducts especially from the secret movie claim they can “solve” peoples problems. What with? Their own interpretation and version of someone elses material packaged is the shiniest eye catching marketing guff available to their tiny minds. They dont need any professional qualifications, no freakin way, they just add their own words and wonder why the hell the world has had enough. If a person has emotional issues they seek out a psychologist who is professionally trained to understand how we tick, if they have medical issues they seek out a doctor of medicine who is professionally trained to understand the intricacies of the human body, if they have a hole in their tooth they seek out a dentist who is professionally trained to administer numbing drugs and extract teeth, if their porche has an engine problem they seek out the specialist porche motor mechanic and so on.
These fauducts have all proven that they want to short circuit this professional proving ground because they want the dollars more and that is why they call themselves “imtrappenyous”. They probably all believed that there was a window of opportunity to suck as much money out of the public as possible as the personal development cycle hit the nine o clock symbol. Now that its reached 12 o’clock we will watch a mass exodus into the next fast money fad because thats about as professional as their tiny minds allow them to get.
[Reply]
Cesare Bonventre Reply:
September 25th, 2012 at 11:17 pm
@Down Plunder, A fail to see any difference at all between the frauds promoted by the self help industry and religion, politics, etc.
[Reply]
[...] It might even save your life. [...]
I would like to ask the author:
Do you see any difference between believing James Earl Ray’s promises and a nation believing that Obama (or Romney) is going to create a million manufacturing jobs?
Face it – Humans are little more than talking chimps in a poorly designed zoo throwing feces at each other – and in America, prone to deadly shopping mall stampedes!
For instance, Americans say nothing at all when corporate guru’s make on average 475 times more than the average employee – Or that National Banks and the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank is allowed to create all the money it wishes out of thin air!
From Dr Phil to Jim Jones, sheeple are eager to look for the instruction of the head guru!
Cognitive Linguists (like Peter Lakoff) have proven that man is NOT a rational creature. Neurophysiologist have proven that man’s unconscious mind makes his strategic decisions – And NOT his conscious mind!
[Reply]
SD Reply:
September 25th, 2012 at 11:34 pm
@Cesare Bonventre ::
It’s James Arthur Ray chuckles … see how it’s right there in the title of the article?
James Earl Ray killed Martin Luther King :: which let it be known … I was also against.
You’re obviously quite proud of yourself for noticing that the world has problems :: maybe go and try doing something about it like I’m doing here in this little niche of darkness … or just go anyway. I’m working on something and you are bothering me pleb.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
September 26th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
@Cesare Bonventre,
How very Hobbes-ian{link} of you. I’m inclined to partially agree.
But you realize you don’t get to be excluded, right? You’re like the Brain gremlin in Gremlins 2. You’re smart. But you’re still one of the rest of us. Recognizing that people are sheeple doesn’t make you a not-sheeple.
I’ve never heard of Peter Lakoff, but I’ve worked that one out already.
Is Peter Lakoff one of your gurus?
——–
We could talk about the people-sheep, and how irrational they are, and how stupid they can be, and how they never learn. But I don’t want to. It isn’t really very productive, it doesn’t really help the problem, and it’s inherently depressing because, at the end of the day, any horrible new thing you discover about the gullibility of the people-sheep in general must necessarily apply back to yourself as well.
So, since I must also be a member of the people-sheep tribe, then if all I’m doing is throwing my poo around, then I’d rather throw it at scammers that con people out of their money and, through reckless indifference to human life, get people killed.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
September 26th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
@Wyrd,
I’ll hazard a guess that @Cesare Bonventre means George Lakoff (not really guru material) who has done some interesting work on the brain/mind
concept:
http://www.amazon.com/Metaphors-We-Live-George-Lakoff/dp/0226468011
[Reply]
pigs trotters Reply:
September 26th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
@, the anon above is moi
[Reply]
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