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Sheeple Part 5 :: Mind Raping

Author == 20 September 2011 139 Comments

Dr. Joost Meerloo was originally called Abraham Meerloo :: but Abraham was not a very trendy name to have during the Nazi occupation of Holland.

Dr. Meerloo was a practicing psychiatrist when the Nazis rolled into the Low Countries. He continued to see patients for nearly three years under the stress of the occupation until his own imprisonment necessitated an escape to England where he served as Chief of Psychiatric Type Stuff for the Dutch forces. After the war :: before moving on to America and Columbia University :: Dr. Meerloo did extensive research on the use of coercive persuasion … conducting hundreds of interviews with the victims and perpetrators of the world’s all time biggest mind fuck.

In 1954 Dr. Meerloo testified on behalf of U.S. Marine Colonel Frank Schwable :: check out a fifty year old article about it on Time Magazine’s nifty full archive … ARMED FORCES: The Dreadful Dilemma.

Col. Schwable :: a Marine aviator :: WWII veteran with 23 years of experience :: and no less than the chief of staff of the First Marine Aircraft Wing {not exactly a vulnerable sissy} … confessed to his North Korean captures {as did many others} that the United States was using germ warfare against the North Koreans. Not only did Col. Schwable and the other soldiers make detailed confessions :: but most of them had actually come to believe their treasonous confessions were accurate.

Manipulation works!!

Dr. Meerloo told the military panel that what happened to Colonel Schwable could literally happen to anyone. You can make a Marine officer :: who has spent his whole fucking life risking his life for America :: hate America. Because the human mind is malleable :: and manipulatable.

But malleable minds don’t want to believe that they’re malleable. Famed cult researcher Dr. Margaret Thaler Singer on how everybody’s always all like “not me”

“As 1984 begins, various totalitarian governments control and censor the media and squelch dissenting individuals. Perhaps more ominously and subtly here and elsewhere in the world, there are mini-versions of Orwell’s Big Brother, Newspeak and Thought Police. Since the early 1970′s there has been a burgeoning not of governments, but of independent entrepreneurial groups going into the mind manipulation and personality-change business. Myriads of faddist, cultists, quacks and “new age” and “new-movement” groups have emerged using Orwellian mind manipulation techniques. The groups recruit the naive, the unaffiliated, the trusting and the altruistic. They promise intellectual, spiritual and self-actualization utopias whereas the pied pipers of the past promised primarily social and political new worlds. The New Age pied pipers offer pathways to development, enlightenment and egalitarianism. Many later subject their followers to mind-numbing treatments that block thinking and subjugate free will in a context of a strictly enforced hierarchy.

Just as most soldiers believe bullets will hit only others, not themselves, most citizens like to think that their own minds and thought processes are invulnerable. ” Other people can be manipulated, but not me,” they declare. People like to think that their opinions, values and ideas are inviolate and totally self-regulated. They may admit grudgingly that they are influenced slightly by advertising. Beyond that, they want to preserve a myth in which other persons are weak-minded and easily influenced, but they are strong-minded. People cherish a fantasy that manipulators confront, browbeat and argue people into doing their bidding. They envision Big Brother coming in storm-trooper boots, holding guns to heads and forcing persons to change their beliefs, alter their personalities, and accept new ideologies. Orwell drew on the wisdom of the ages — most manipulation is subtle and covert. Orwell envisioned the evolution of an insidious, but successful mind and opinion manipulator. He would appear as a smiling, seemingly beneficent Big Brother. But instead of one Big Brother, we see hordes of Big Brothers in the world today.”

Menticide is a word that Dr. Meerloo coined to describe the objective of Big Brother and all his lil’ Mini-Mes :: the complete destruction of a person’s mind and spirit … to be replaced by somebody else’s empty bullshit.

Unfortunately menticide isn’t that hard :: here’s a blueprint. Even more unfortunately :: stupid humans are so desperate not to think about it … that almost nothing has ever been done to strengthen society’s defenses against its insidious dangers.

Two years after Dr. Meerloo’s death in 1976 :: and two decades after he first laid thought control out there as actionable science :: 912 people were murdered by Jim Jones’ epic scale Jonestown menticide. Each year until her death in 2003 :: Dr. Singer attended a memorial service for the Jonestown victims … which included 276 children. She used those days to remind herself of why fighting cults was worth the suffering … and fight she did … for a very long time. But the “not mes” have always remained  steadfastly against action :: and so in spite of several generations worth of valiant effort … laws don’t exist to stop Death Rays before they kill people. Kinda of hard to stop them even after they kill people.

It’s pretty fucking depressing.

“Why isn’t anything being done to stop this crazy shit?” :: you people asks me all the time. I don’t know is the answer I give … but I do know that that question predates the Beatles.

Dr. Meerloo’s 1956 classic The Rape of the Mind proffers one solution to the problem that readers of the fake robot blog may recognize …

“We must learn to treat the demagogue and aspirant dictator in our midst just as we should treat our external enemies in a cold war — with the weapon of ridicule. The demagogue himself is almost incapable of humor of any sort, and if we treat him with humor, he will begin to collapse. Humor is, after all, related to a sense of perspective. If we can see how things should be, we can see how askew they can get, and we can recognize distortion when we are confronted with it. Put the demagogue’s statements in perspective, and you will see how utterly distorted they are. How can we possibly take them seriously or answer them seriously? We have important business to attend to — matters of life and death both for ourselves as individuals and for our nation as a whole. The demagogue relies for his effectiveness on the fact that people will take seriously the fantastic accusations he makes; will discuss the phony issues he raises as if they had reality, or will be thrown into such a state of panic by his accusations and charges that they will simply abdicate their right to think and verify for themselves.

The fact is that the demagogue is not appealing to what is rational and mature in man; he is appealing to what is most irrational and most immature. To attempt to answer his ravings with logic is to attempt the impossible. First of all, by so doing we accept his battling premises, and we find ourselves trapped in an argument on terms he has chosen. It is always easier to defeat an enemy on your own ground, and by choosing your own terms. In addition, the demagogue either is, or pretends to be, incapable of the kind of logic that makes discussion and clarification possible. He is a master at changing the subject. It is worse than criminal for us to get ourselves involved in endless, pointless, and inevitably vituperative arguments with men who are less concerned with truth, social good, and real problems than they are with gaining unlimited attention and power for themselves.

In their defense against psychological attacks on their freedom, the people need humor and good sense first. Consistent approval or silent acceptance of any terror-provoking strategy will result only in the downfall of our democratic system. Confusion undermines confidence.”

You think I’m mean … but it’s just some old-school motherfucking science!

SCIENCE!

>> bleep bloop

 

139 Comments »

  • goatsling said:

    Been reading your site for a few weeks (stumbled on it while researching Brian Clark following one of those hilarious tantrums) and just wanted to say that it’s essential reading for me now.

    Humour is definitely the way to go, looking at the masses of comments your recent posts are getting shows that it really hits a nerve and gets the nutters over here in droves.

    Dear Leader, I mean, Salty, please never stop doing what you are doing!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +26

    [Reply]

  • Mark said:

    I feel like anything I post going forward should begin:
    Hi my name is Mark & I’m a recovering Third Triber.

    Anyway, Thanks for all your hard work, SD.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +22

    [Reply]

  • Paul B said:

    I got bored half way through, can’t you do an audio version and sell it to me for $47 instead?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    Wanderlost Reply:

    @Paul B, Salty won’t, but I’m doing a super-exclusive “Protect Yourself and Your Family from the Secret Mind-Manipulators in our Midst” conference in byootiful Las Vegas. Shhh! Get the Early Bird Special for just $10,000- or a mere $487 a month for the rest of your life! (quantities limited- only 7 at this price! The next 100,000 pay 10 times that. Anyone missing the deadline will have their credit card details turned over to Nigerian princes with whom we’ve made made special arrangements to ‘serve’ you.)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

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    Wanderlost Reply:

    Actually, what’s really hair-raising is that some of the more obviously cult-like ‘gurus’ sell ‘anti-guru’ programs advertised not so differently from this. They’re obviously very familiar with all these tactics- and use them in their sales.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

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    Anonymous Reply:

    @Wanderlost, What killer bonuses are you offering? If there’s no killer bonus then I’m not buying.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Paul B ::

    Just use text-to-speech and then send me $20 … cash … so I don’t have to pay my taxes.

    Everyone wins but our esteemed leader Stephen Harper!

    [Reply]

    Neil Reply:

    @SD,

    Steve is building a jail for just for people like you.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    @SD, Call it $27 and you’ve got a deal.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

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  • i'm jesus deal with it said:

    The following link isn’t about internet marketing but if you listen carefully in one of the videos, you’ll hear one of the kiddies (approx. age around 7, I’d say) asking “Jesus” something or other about the “Law of Attraction”.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/article/-/10276027/inside-australias-chilling-new-cult/

    This is truly horrible stuff that, unfortunately, is being played out in many guises all over the world everyday.

    Keep it up, Salty; people need to hear this shit.

    Not-Jesus

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

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    BananaTaco Reply:

    Wait! I thought John de Ruiter was doing this – oh yeah, he is! And so are a few billion other swami McGuru pants assholes.

    (but seriously, check out the above named, my friend fell prey to him over 10 years ago and he’s never been quite the same)

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

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    Bonnie Reply:

    @i’m jesus deal with it,

    That guy is some scary sh!t! And the scariest part of it is that he looks like he actually believes everything he says and that he’s not just conning! And the even scarier thing is that there are so many others out there just like him all over the world doing the exact same thing!

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    BananaTaco Reply:

    In less than 10 years he had a church built, his own ‘learning centre’, and followers that had immigrated to Canada just to be ‘near his presence’. I went to a meeting and it blew my mind. Women were weeping in the front, and he hadn’t even begun speaking yet. It was SCARY shit.

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    SD Reply:

    @i’m jesus deal with it ::

    That’s fucked up. That twat looks exactly like Koresh too …

    @Bonnie ::

    You can’t be good at this unless you know down deep that you’re faking it. Someone who actually believes that they’re god will be shit at micro-managing the dissent repressing shame hierarchy required to make a proper cult happen.

    The long time reverend :: pastor :: and faith healer :: Jim Jones … was an atheist.

    [Reply]

    RT Reply:

    @SD,

    So deep down these people know they are full of shit?

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    SD Reply:

    @RT ::

    They don’t believe the tripe they puke out for the sheeple … it’s intentional manipulation … not accidental.

    [Reply]

    Dave Reply:

    @SD, re: Jim Jones atheist – not according to this transcript of one of his sermons:

    http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/TapeSummaries/932.html

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    BananaTaco Reply:

    To be clear, for clarity’s sake, I am a BananaTaco, not @I’m Jesus Deal with it.

    And, thought I’d mention, this guy (JdR) also has two wives that are sisters.

    Cozy huh?

    *gag*

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    RT Reply:

    @i’m jesus deal with it,

    Quote from that article you linked to:

    ““Neuroscientist Dr Louise Faber left the Queensland Brain Institute to buy a property next to Miller in O’Dea Road, outside Kingaroy. I asked her if she believed Miller was Jesus. She said: “Oh yes, David, I know he is Jesus”.”

    … clearly it shows that those that are extremely intelligent, as I am assuming you must be to become a neuroscientist, as susceptible to these forms of manipulation.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

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    blue Reply:

    @i’m jesus deal with it, this guy can’t be Jesus because Jesus is brazilian:

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

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    BananaTaco Reply:

    Wondering, is a beard a prerequisite for being a Jeezus Faker? Or, I suppose, a strategic shot at emulating the traditionally depicted images of Christ…Answered my own question again!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

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    Glad I Was Broke Reply:

    @i’m jesus deal with it,

    I’m not an expert on the subject matter, but isn’t it accepted that Ron Hubbard pretty much invented Scientology on a bet with his buddies that he can create a religion out of nothing?

    If he could do so, admit to it and still have a strong following, it is reasonable to assume that anyone else can do it too….

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • GV said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -20

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -12

    [Reply]

    Gv Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -11

    [Reply]

    GV Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    Gv Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    Gv Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    Jane Galt Reply:

    That video IS creepy – I don’t care who it’s for!

    Thumb up Thumb down -3

    SD Reply:

    @Jane Galt ::

    I know your brother John :: he talks too much.

    SD Reply:

    @GV ::

    … cut and paste this for your therapist.

    [Reply]

    Gv Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

    Gv Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @SD, Here’s a different cut and paste…
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/28/cain-black-community-brainwashed-into-voting-for-dems/

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

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  • Hal (the original Hal) said:

    It’s interesting how easily our minds are manipulated and I’m one of those people that firmly believes they’re not easily coerced.

    Imagine my surprise when I rented the 2nd season of The Mentalist from the local library and was watching the bonus features where a real life mentalist (not the fictional Patrick Jane) predicts what someone will draw on a piece of paper.

    I followed along and drew exactly the same picture. I was shocked. It was totally bizarre to me until he explains how he subtly guides you into drawing the image he is going to “predict”.

    Now that I know how it’s done, I’m more aware and far less susceptible. So awareness of mind control techniques appears to be the best defense. But nobody is automatically immune to all of the techniques (as there are many). It’s based on science and human nature and in the wrong hands it’s a weapon, not entertainment.

    That’s why sociopaths like Kern make courses like Mass Control. It’s all about teaching others how to stickup the susceptible without using a gun.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Foolness Reply:

    @Hal (the original Hal),

    Incorrect. Awareness alone is worse defense.

    Why do you think you often hear the statement: intelligent people are often more vulnerable to hypnotism?

    Awareness is not always enlightenment. For that very reason, if you don’t continue honing your awareness to a point that you not only utilize but get an intuitive sense of what you’re facing, you’re actually more vulnerable as all a mentalist could do is bypass your pseudo-skeptic biases.

    That’s one major reason why true skepticism often involves the ability to reproduce a demonstration. True skepticism is not about proving what’s a lie, it’s about proving what’s the truth.

    This may seem semantic but take the Tim thread for example. Why is it that after one life coach’s attitude has been exposed, there would still be people who defend their own life coaches? That’s because knowing it’s a lie doesn’t automatically mean that the next one “can’t be legitimate” especially when people change their niches.

    The best defense is always to be taught a simple practice to “verify” the mind rapists. You could use this in politics for examples.

    Why is it that there were some people who may have faith in Obama prior to him getting elected realized that he may have been a liar? Even ones with little awareness of facts?

    It wasn’t the awareness of Obama but the awareness of how flimsy Obama used the word “Change”. It may not be strong evidence but things like and how the followers of Obama rationalized their interpretation and facts like whether Obama truly supported the Patriot Act are some of the clues.

    It doesn’t mean the above case is perfect or that no one supports Obama now… or even that because of the above, Obama is 100% evil or bad as a president but the point is…awareness is a bridge.

    A bridge is not always heading to the right path. Even if you’ve known something before and think you’ve wisened up, there’s nothing there implying the bridge can’t pull you to a wrong belief once again. You have to constantly test the bridge. For simpler parlor tricks, maybe you’ve learned it now but for more complicated scams, skepticism is close to the best defense as it’s actually offense.

    You saw how Tim reacted when the ball was put in his court via commenting here. If this was a life coaching session, the odds of Tim exposing himself like that are few to none. Not only because he’s trying to protect his business but because the clients, even skeptical ones, are more concerned with Tim being an actual help rather than what constitutes as a good life coach. The only time the skeptics can even demonstrate the flaws would be when they do single or double blind test with the clear intent on measuring Tim’s effectiveness rather than Tim’s “help”.

    Believe it or not, the mind is not easily manipulated. It looks easy because everytime we are manipulated we often have a bias towards an extreme that we can’t be manipulated so that when we are finally manipulated, we have a tendency to do a 360 and assume it’s so easy…but it’s not. This just as much applies to people that have been conned. Unless there is strong evidence, why do you think people are stubborn to defend something that they feel has helped them? A major reason for that is that scammers are taking advantage of how hard it is to manipulate their followers’ minds. They know, once they pass a certain conviction, it takes more effort for a skeptic to convince a believer than they would have originally needed to convert their followers into believers.

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    Hal (the original Hal) Reply:

    @Foolness,

    Methinks you misunderstood what I meant.

    I still don’t think I’m easily manipulated and I already know first hand I can’t be hypnotized, but it was humbling for me to discover that given enough skill, it was possible for a complete stranger (on a DVD no less) to manipulate me at a benign level.

    It made me even more aware of how even people who are not easily swayed can be guided into something they think is a “free choice” (assuming the “guidance” is not contrary to the subject’s core belief system).

    NOTE: A manipulation contrary to someone’s core beliefs is very difficult, but is still possible under the right circumstances (e.g. Col. Schwable).

    If you think you’re above it, I recommend you go borrow (or rent) the 2nd season of The Mentalist and follow along with the bonus features on Disk 5.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

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    Foolness Reply:

    @Hal (the original Hal),

    @Hal (the original Hal),

    “Methinks you misunderstood what I meant.”

    No… no I don’t think I did.

    “I still don’t think I’m easily manipulated and I already know first hand I can’t be hypnotized”

    Not trying to come off as offensive but to quote your own words: methinks you misunderstood what I meant.

    >>>Here’s what you said: So awareness of mind control techniques appears to be the best defense.

    >>>Here’s what I said:

    Awareness alone is worse defense.

    Why do you think you often hear the statement: intelligent people are often more vulnerable to hypnotism?

    ^There’s nothing there that specifically refers to how easily you can be hypnotized.

    “but it was humbling for me to discover that given enough skill, it was possible for a complete stranger (on a DVD no less) to manipulate me at a benign level.”

    Nope. There’s no specific limit on how much skill it needs to take.

    The most un-charismatic person in the world could make a blog post that eventually went viral and they would be manipulating you.

    “NOTE: A manipulation contrary to someone’s core beliefs is very difficult, but is still possible under the right circumstances (e.g. Col. Schwable).’

    It’s not very difficult. It’s impossible.

    The right circumstances often sway someone’s core beliefs. When the core beliefs change, then the manipulated action occurs but the core beliefs can never be actually manipulated.

    Also…core beliefs need to be very specific. Sometimes so specific that even the person themselves don’t have any conscious idea what it is about.

    Example: If I’m a Christian and I go to church and I do every ritual correctly and I say “I love Jesus” – that still doesn’t mean that “I love Jesus” is my core beliefs. Even after every empirical data has been acquired to back up that I sincerely love Jesus, it doesn’t guarantee that’s my core belief. Not only that it doesn’t guarantee anything, it doesn’t strongly hint to anything. Even if I was tortured for example to deny Jesus, I am not any more likely to insist that I love Jesus than an agnostic who claims to love Jesus.

    Thumb up Thumb down -2

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    Hal (the original Hal) Reply:

    @Foolness,

    Are you one of those people who would float upstream if they drowned in a river? :-)

    I said it was “possible” under the right circumstances, not “certain”. Or are you picking nits over the definition of “core beliefs”?

    Because then you would be implying it would be impossible for Colonel Schwable to say what he said under ANY circumstance if US patriotism was one of his core beliefs. Yes?

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

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    Foolness Reply:

    @Hal (the original Hal),

    Yes, that is what I was implying.

    Sometimes I don’t really get the whole “are you just being semantical?”.

    How is the word impossible not any more clearer in stating that I believe it can’t be possible under any circumstances? Right or wrong.

    It would be one thing if I used the words unlikely or more likely/less likely, less possible/more possible but where is the room for reading impossible as being something other than impossible???

    What are clearly unclear and words that can fall under semantics are things like love, US, patriotism. Even if say patriotism is a core belief by someone, it doesn’t mean his definition of patriotism (within his mindset) matches that with what he is saying or what people are thinking when they think of patriotism. It doesn’t even mean the person is really being unpatriotic. It just means that words are not the end be all factors for manipulating people.

    Even if you go back to the previous parts of Salty’s sheeple series, many of those have shown how easily one’s core beliefs can be convinced to changed under certain circumstances. Even “wrong” circumstances. The manipulation doesn’t happen because it is changing the person, the manipulation is trying to convince the person to self-manipulate themselves. They have to do this because it’s “impossible” to change core beliefs.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    SD Reply:

    @Foolness ::

    But it is mostly semantical because the way you describe “core beliefs” nobody really has any. Which is probably pretty close to the truth … but it’s a strangely tiny quibble to be making here with so many words. People can be tricked :: and changed :: we don’t need to map out all the pathways with an fMRI to know that it’s happening.

    All of your comments so far have been strangely long and minutia based. What’s your deal? Is that a proxy server … or are you really from lands far away?

    Richard Reply:

    @Hal (the original Hal),

    Studying the works of Milton Erickson, Richard Bandler, Derren Brown, and others in the field of manipulating human nature there is one question I have learned to ask people. That is….

    Where did you learn that belief? Best asked when talking with someone in person.

    To say awareness is not a good defense is false, yes those who are intelligent are noted to be easily put into a guided state of hypnosis but that statement does not imply that the intelligent person is aware of the hypnotic process. (Logical people are processors and disrupting a thinking pattern can create an easy state of suggestion)Gerald F. Kein of Omni Hypnosis goes into great detail about the process.

    Hypnosis as I understand it in the simplest form is just following a suggestion and becoming in a higher state of alertness/awareness.

    The people who become “brainwashed” by these leaders fascinate me and I want to know what is going on in their minds, what venerabilities are being exploited, what desires are being met and how does this happen all the time. It’s never ending and there will always be some crazy brainwashing wizard out and about praying on these victims who allow these perpetrators to abuse them even more.

    Shifting to a Marketing point of view, the whole idea is to get people to buy products they think or feel they need using just about any means necessary via physiological messages. (Is it not?)

    Car radio seems to have 80% of the Adverts targeted “I say” to Keep people in debt and keep them fat, keep them starving, keep them in state rage, panic, anxiety, and sexual frustration. Then Sell the solution. The the real “magic” is the subliminal message ingrained into the subconscious that never will be cured or healed and always need a “FIX”, sure people turn the station but don’t you think that hasn’t been built into the marketing plan from the start?

    That is way I love to study this field because becoming more aware of it allows me to see, feel, and notice when I am reacting instead of responding to marketing and advertising. Have you ever got kind of mad when you are looking for something you want and you just can’t seem to find it online or in a shelf? We are use to products being there when we want them but watch out when Billy Mays (Great Man, pitches us the latest plastic two for 19.95 deal).

    Just one more thing, FORGET the Numbers 4-2-1 do not REMEMBER the numbers 4-2-1, completely disregard and forget you ever saw the numbers 4-2-1. Have you forgot the numbers 4-2-1 yet?

    What’s there to hide)
    Richard Kaulfers
    323-638-9784

    Salty thank you for putting time and effort into your posts.

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    Bonnie Reply:

    @Hal (the original Hal),

    Does anyone know if this bonus part is online somewhere and can be watched? — YouTube, etc? It seems that just about everything is, but I did a search and couldn’t find it because I didn’t really know the exact title of what I’m looking for.

    Thanks!

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    [Reply]

    Hal (the original Hal) Reply:

    @Bonnie,

    Hey Bonnie, I couldn’t find the actual clips from the DVD online, but here’s guy who was doing it:

    http://bit.ly/oBsSvM

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    Bonnie Reply:

    @Hal (the original Hal),

    Thanks Hal! Ok, let me make sure I understand you — this is the guy who did the bonus material on the Mentalist, but what he does here in this YouTube clip was “not” the trick he did that got you?

    And thanks again!

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    Anonymous Reply:

    @Bonnie,

    Correct. Same guy, different trick.

    Although he does do the mind reading trick with the actor who plays Patrick Jane on the DVD. But obviously that trick wouldn’t work on you or me because he can’t get feedback from us (how our eyes move, how our faces twitch, etc.).

    I don’t want to tell you too much because it might skew the results.

    If you can get that DVD and follow along as if you’re there, you’ll see what I mean.

    It’s really cool stuff (when not used for nefarious purposes) and he explains how/why they work.

    If you’re not already aware of the techniques, they’ll make perfect sense to you after the fact.

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    Sundon Reply:

    @Hal (the original Hal), It’s absolutely remarkable how much of the stuff in this video is taught, often with the same language, in Mass Control.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Shit Storm said:

    Please don’t walk away from this site and think you can’t make a difference…you can

    ALLLL these people need to be stopped

    I’ve said this before and I will say this again:

    This ends with indictments.

    I’m sure to many of you the idea of cult like tactics being used by these scammers sounds a bit extreme but please don’t doubt it

    They’re well versed in the tactics used to manipulate & distort in order to separate people from their money

    Think about it…people are scared of losing their job, their house, their life savings.

    they don’t want to let their family down…they’ll consider anything in order to make the pain stop

    They’re vulnerable…even desperate

    In walks a smooth talking demagogue (great description btw) distorting and manipulating these people at the worst possible time

    There’s millions of dollars in it if you’re a high end scammer…MILLIONS

    …and for those scammers with less talent than the Frank Kerns of the world…like Naomi Dunford…then there’s a six figure payday they have never seen before

    They do this because it’s easy pickings…if a Marine Corp colonial can be manipulated to hate America after spending his whole life risking his life defending America than anyone can be manipulated

    Our enemy uses many techniques and call themselves by many names.

    They sell courses, seminars, consulting and coaching but all they’re really selling is a scam…and they’re DAMN good at it

    They sell you a well written plausible sounding opportunity that will make all your pain go away and all your dreams come true

    They will get others…who are in on the scam…to claim it works

    They’re whole goal is to manipulate you in order to buy their lies.

    They ALLLLLLL need to be called out and made to answer publicly.

    This ends with indictments…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Shit Storm ::

    I’ve decided to make you our official cheerleader :: here are your pom-pons …

    * *

    … congrats!

    PS Don’t think this is a license to be a slut … like an HPV vaccination.

    [Reply]

  • MJ said:

    There’s so much deception out there purposely propagated, it’s crazy. The IM niche is a speck on the larger map.

    Two good books are “Trust Us, We’re Experts” by Sheldon and Stauber and “Propaganda” by Edward Bernays (Freud’s cousin). When you’re able to easily identify the bullshit, you can protect yourself.

    The masses are easily manipulated and need to wake up and see between the lines.

    SD, I think it’s great you point out the scammers in IM, but do you intend on also taking on major industry conglomerates and even bigger thieves, too?

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @MJ ::

    Whatever happens … happens.

    But I’m passionate about this problem … and it’s much bigger than you think.

    Bernays style propaganda dominates western society … this is as good an area to lodge a criticism against it as any.

    [Reply]

  • Carla said:

    Jason,

    This is seriously an awesome post.

    After following the whole Dave and Naomi thing and watching the reactions here and elsewhere, what was the most disturbing to me was not what they did, but that so many people just didn’t care. They truly didn’t see anything wrong with it.

    Looking at the common denominator between the bloggers excusing it away (the ones that actually read all the details not just retweeting blindly,) 80 percent of the time they had some association with NLP, either coaching, training, or following the practices.

    It’s dangerous to dismiss NLP as quackery. There is something to it and it is based on manipulation and deception in its entirety. If someone uses or promotes it, stay away from them.

    In the Ittybiz thing, you could see that there were whole swaths of people that had been completely desensitized to certain ethical aspects.

    It’s a scary thing.

    That is why it is SO important to be careful who you listen to and associate with and why you should consider all aspects of a person’s character and actions when making a judgment call.

    The morning after the big Ittybiz reveal, I was reading in 2 Kings about Elisha and Hazael. I’m not going to get into it, but the message was don’t be too confident about what you would “never” do, because we are all just one step away from a fall.

    And I have to say this, there are a lot of things I just can’t stand about this site.

    There is a pervasive attitude here that if you’re making money, that somehow you’re a scammer.

    That for some reason people are allowed to dictate to others what they are allowed to do and what they can charge.

    I’ll be honest, if anyone tried to tell me what I could charge, I’d tell them where to go. My philosophy is, if you don’t want to pay me for my time or advice, don’t make my phone ring. It’s pretty simple.

    And the victim mentality absolutely drives me crazy. People that make a habit of blaming others for their decisions and trying to put the burden of their life and choices on someone else can be just as manipulative as some of the people profiled here.

    I’ve made some stupid choices, but I learned from them and was more savvy in my decisions the next time. I don’t agree with the attitude that there are some people that just aren’t capable of making competent decisions for themselves. If you make a mistake, own it, and do better next time.

    I also don’t agree with attacking someone just because of a tenuous affiliation with a shady character. It’s like knowing there is a criminal standing in a corner, shooting buckshot in the area, and excusing the collateral damage because they were standing next to someone who actually deserved it.

    That’s not cool.

    But I do see the message, and if it makes people question and think twice about what they commit to or get involved in, that’s a good thing.

    The first time I came across this blog, the writing was so discordant that it was like an ice pick jabbing my brain.

    Following the Ittybiz posts, I saw the story arc and the build up and the emotion behind telling the story of the Navarro’s. And now this post.

    You are a great writer when you write from a place of rightness instead of animosity. You don’t need sensationalism to get your message out.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    You're so silly Reply:

    @Carla,

    I rebuked you for what appears to be “cognitive dissonance” further down, but forgot to add this …

    Your last sentence tried to “reframe” this site as sensationalist. Did you miss the last quoted passage from Dr. Meerloo’s book, “Rape of the Mind”?

    This site is satirical and humorous. Sensationalism implies hype for hype’s sake. Think supermarket tabloid. Think lazy journalism. Think half-truths. But don’t think this site.

    I won’t ask you to cite references that led you to conclude the writing on this site falls under sensational. I know there aren’t any.

    Maybe you didn’t really mean to write “sensationalism”. Maybe you thought it meant something different. I can buy that. In the future, please choose your words more carefully, Carla.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Carla ::

    I also don’t agree with attacking someone just because of a tenuous affiliation with a shady character.

    Nor do I.

    It’s like knowing there is a criminal standing in a corner, shooting buckshot in the area, and excusing the collateral damage because they were standing next to someone who actually deserved it.

    It’s not like that at all … because nobody’s getting buckshot.

    It’s like there is criminal standing in the corner and you scream :: “HEY dirty fucking fathead criminal and all the dirty fucking fatheads hanging around him grinning like he’s some hot shit … I think this is BS and I’m going to post about it to my livejournal.”

    You are a great writer when you write from a place of rightness instead of animosity.

    There is no animosity in any of the writing actually. Emotions are for people who like making mistakes.

    [Reply]

    Wyrd Reply:

    @SD,


    Emotions are for people who like making mistakes.

    Wait, so you’re an astromech and a Jedi? ;-)


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Barbara Reply:

    @Carla,

    So among the things you cannot stand about this site is “the victim mentality absolutely drives me crazy”?

    I’ve never once seen a victim mindset on display at this site. I have read some absolutely searingly honest accounts of people caught in the scammer’s web….surely you don’t mean those posts?

    One thing I don’t want to see here is a blame the victim mentality, now that would drive me crazy.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    blue Reply:

    @Carla, do you think con artists study this stuff? No, most of them never touched a self-help book their entire lives. But they can con people, they know human nature enough to exploit it.

    I’ve heard Charles Manson went to Dale Carnegie’s courses, but I’m not sure if It’s true.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Barbara Reply:

    @blue,

    In Bugliosi’s book “Helter Skelter” he mentioned that Manson picked up a written course of Carnegie’s “‘but soon lost interest in it” and he details his many other prison pursuits.

    He also took an interest in scientology while in prison and frequently used terminology he acquired from a cursory knowledge of that scam.

    But he was also known for being interested in the fiction of Robert A. Heinlein, playing guitar, amateur dramatics, etc. So I’m not sure what your point is in mentioning Carnegie.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    How does this happen? Reply:

    @Carla, you’re new here… But if you did some digging, you’d find that “we” are not anti money making… We are anti unicorn bilking. It’s a lot like milking a cow, except its evil as sh!t and doesn’t give a fk about who you are… As long as you gots monies to bilk. There is a big difference between offering something of value an marketing your product in creative ways vs. The type of manipulation you see lampooned so readily on this site.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Uncle Ralph Reply:

    @Carla, I’m surprised you would make the inference that people here are somehow “against” making money. That could not be further from the truth.

    I’m certainly not “anti money making” and I have been in business for myself (tangible merchandise, not IM stuff).

    I’ve been following SD since his first tweets, and I haven’t found anything yet that I disagreed with. He has a consistent and reliable moral compass, thoughtful reasoning, and while you might find some of the writing to be abrasive, it “gets the job done.” He is also the most dedicated uncompensated volunteer I have EVER run across in my entire life, online or off.

    I can say with absolute certainty that SD is also not “anti money making.”

    It would be better said that SD (and most commenters here I would imagine, including myself) are anti-money making where it relates to scammers making money.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    Wyrd Reply:

    @Carla,

    Thanks for posting. :-)

    Hi. You addressed this to Jason/SD, not me, but he’s already responded below, so I’d like to jump in and say a few word thingies.


    This is seriously an awesome post.

    I thought it was cool too. I was not specifically aquainted with any of the “mind rape” stuff, but I am well familiar with the fact that all of us squishy humans, including me-myself are susceptible to manipulation of one sort or another. And I am stoically aware that awareness of that susceptibility does not cure me of having it anymore than simply being aware of the plague would make me immune to it.


    After following the whole Dave and Naomi thing and watching the reactions here and elsewhere, what was the most disturbing to me was not what they did, but that so many people just didn’t care. They truly didn’t see anything wrong with it.

    Looking at the common denominator between the bloggers excusing it away (the ones that actually read all the details not just retweeting blindly,) 80 percent of the time they had some association with NLP, either coaching, training, or following the practices.

    I’m not quite sure which peoples’ you’re referring to exactly, but if you mean to say that the bulk of the people that were followers of Naomi and/or Dave before this are still followers of Naomi and/or Dave after this, then that’s not something that would surprise me at all. Once a person has committed themselves to a specific belief or set of beliefs about another person or group or ideology, it becomes pretty hard for them to shift their view on it. Imagine how you would feel if someone tried to cast doubt on the trustworthiness of some friend or collegue you’ve know for years and years and always trusted. It’d be very hard for you to suddenly turn your back on that person–even in the light of overwhelming evidence.

    In this case with Dave/Naomi, these folks you talk of probably don’t know Dave or Naomi personally, but they feel as if they do, so the affect is the same.

    You mentioned that most of these folks seemed to have some association with NLP. This again would be another reason why it would be very difficult for these people to change their minds. They’re committed to a beleif in NLP already. Many of them probably believe that NLP has done wonderous things for them. How can they so easily cast that belief aside?

    There’s a guy named James Randi that has tested many people for dowsing ability over the years. So far, no one has ever performed better than chance, but even after the test comes up negative (or “inconclusive” if you want to be really charitable towards the person making the extraordinary claim), the dowser still believes their powers are real.


    It’s dangerous to dismiss NLP as quackery. There is something to it and it is based on manipulation and deception in its entirety. If someone uses or promotes it, stay away from them.

    I guess it depends how you think of “quackery” or other such BS in general. Whenever I label something as “quackery” or “pseudoscience” and I “dismiss” it, that does not mean that I think it’s harmless. To my mind, “quackery” means stuff that is, fundamentally not “effective” (in the sense that the FDA means it in their mandate) and further may also not be “safe” (in that same FDA sense).

    There’s a website on on the general topic of how fake stuff can hurt you that you may want to check out: whatstheharm.net. It doesn’t appear to have any articles on NLP yet, but maybe if you know of some, you can submit them and thereby help everyone by providing another cautionary tale.


    That is why it is SO important to be careful who you listen to and associate with and why you should consider all aspects of a person’s character and actions when making a judgment call.

    I agree completely.


    The morning after the big Ittybiz reveal, I was reading in 2 Kings about Elisha and Hazael. I’m not going to get into it, but the message was don’t be too confident about what you would “never” do, because we are all just one step away from a fall.

    Some might say that’s a little over dramatic, but I agree with you completely there too.


    And I have to say this, there are a lot of things I just can’t stand about this site.

    I’ve posted in comments about the things I didn’t like about the site.


    There is a pervasive attitude here that if you’re making money, that somehow you’re a scammer.

    Technically, of course, making money is not a scam. However, the actual act of selling things to people has always felt (and has probably always been) a little bit scammy since the dawn of time.

    But that’s not the focus of the site, IMHO. There’s a post on this site where you can hear audio of one the A-team bigwigs coaching an up-and-coming bigwig on just exactly how to scam more money out of the manipulated followers. It’s pretty sick. It’s way beyond caveat emptor and all the way into “why can’t we bring these guys up on fraud charges already?”.


    And the victim mentality absolutely drives me crazy. People that make a habit of blaming others for their decisions and trying to put the burden of their life and choices on someone else can be just as manipulative as some of the people profiled here.

    Abdicating responsibility for ones’ own actions in attempt to avoid blame is a messed-around process that ends with the individual taking away their own freedom, yes.


    I’ve made some stupid choices, but I learned from them and was more savvy in my decisions the next time. I don’t agree with the attitude that there are some people that just aren’t capable of making competent decisions for themselves. If you make a mistake, own it, and do better next time.

    We should all take that attitude. But the message of this article was that everyone–even the people who think just like you even the people who take responsibility for their own actions and would (rightly) refuse to listen to someone else telling them how to live their lives can still be conned or tricked or (even) pulled into a cult-like menticidal belief system. Believing that it can’t happen to you is like believing that you’ll never be mugged or something. It doesn’t make you safer, it just makes you slightly more vulnerable.


    The first time I came across this blog, the writing was so discordant that it was like an ice pick jabbing my brain.

    Following the Ittybiz posts, I saw the story arc and the build up and the emotion behind telling the story of the Navarro’s. And now this post.

    You are a great writer when you write from a place of rightness instead of animosity. You don’t need sensationalism to get your message out.

    Maybe the purpose of the ice pick-like writing was to force you to pay attention. @SD might not strictly need the sensatioinalism. But sensationalism does, indeed, work. Just as it always has. That’s why the bad guys use it.

    If @SD hadn’t jabbed those ice pick words into your brain, would you be commenting now? Would more placid writing have made such an impression?


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • Bonnie said:

    Maybe if the law actually DID something with these crazy criminals, rather than just letting them walk free until they actually kill someone, and even then “being so careful not to step on their rights” during trial when it’s already without any possible doubt that they’re guilty, and making sure they get a “fair” trial that their victims never had the opportunity of getting — geez!

    Keep on it, Salty! This and all these lying greedy bastards have got to be stopped!

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • Rafael Marquez said:

    This section here:

    He is a master at changing the subject. It is worse than criminal for us to get ourselves involved in endless, pointless, and inevitably vituperative arguments with men who are less concerned with truth, social good, and real problems than they are with gaining unlimited attention and power for themselves.

    Reminds me of Rick Perry and a lot of other politicians.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Dave Reply:

    @Rafael Marquez, Spot on.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Yay! Politics! Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Clark Reply:

    @Yay! Politics!,

    Dude, at least Obama’s solution to problems he causes isn’t “Let’s all pray together”. I don’t like Obama that much either, but at least he isn’t a complete liar.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Yay! Politics! ::

    You didn’t really “do it too” shiteater. Rafael made a point about the politics of misdirection anchored in some of the text from the post … referencing someone who very muchly does that sort of shit. You just blurted out uselessness.

    There are lots of valid criticisms of Obama … misdirection isn’t one of them. He’d obviously love to talk about the things he thinks are important … unlike say … his fucking birth certificate.

    If you wanted to throw out a lefty to fair-it-up in here because someone mentioned the name of blessed republican … then you should have gone with John Edwards or one of the many other lefties guilty of the same sin. As it is you’re just a stupid dick. The dick part is to be expected in politics … but the stupid part seems like a very sad recent development.

    [Reply]

    Yay! Politics! Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Yay! Politics! ::

    It’s not group think … it’s just thinking. I’m sorry you’re not qualified to do it.

    He’s not “my boy” … but I am a huge fan of criticism and I hate to see somebody fucking it up.

    I hope you’ve learned something today.

    [Reply]

    Dyler Thunder Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

  • KG said:

    Brilliant blog.

    Humour, as a weapon against hypocrisy, dishonesty, stupidity, and mind-manipulation, is just plain clever. When one is as hilarious as the robot, it packs an awesome punch.

    I will continue to read, and my hope is that things will change for the betterment of everyone; that victims become more aware, and predators live with more integrity (or get locked up).

    I am not hopeful. But please do carry on robot. I guess it’s like the stone that is thrown into the proverbial pond. Who knows what will happen?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

  • You're so silly said:

    @Carla,

    Voted you down because you seem to push two different points of view. Someone in a previous post (much smarter than I am) pointed to this “technique” and reported it as a tool of the manipulati.

    I wrote seem to push because I believe in the second quote you’re referencing the recently skewered NLP student and coach Tim Brownson.

    It’s dangerous to dismiss NLP as quackery. There is something to it and it is based on manipulation and deception in its entirety. If someone uses or promotes it, stay away from them.

    I also don’t agree with attacking someone just because of a tenuous affiliation with a shady character. It’s like knowing there is a criminal standing in a corner, shooting buckshot in the area, and excusing the collateral damage because they were standing next to someone who actually deserved it.

    That’s not cool.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Barbara Reply:

    @You’re so silly,

    I noticed that also, a seeming defense of Brownson but a grave warning about the supposed dangers of NLP in the same post. It’s puzzling.

    I did, and do, dismiss NLP as quackery. NLP is just one of the many techniques in the scammer’s toolbox. All of the innumerable variations of the mind fuck, holosync tapes, hypnosis, holotropic breathing, etc. are dangerous in the hands of a James Ray, or anyone of his ilk.

    But NLP by itself has no “powers”, for good or evil. You won’t grow three more inches in penis length as claimed here:

    http://www.remotehypnosis.com/timeline.asp

    Nor will you grow hair on your bald head, grow Guinness book sized breasts,
    or achieve any other promised results. You will merely be out a sum of cash ending in the digit seven. There is absolutely no empirical base of support for NLP. If you dabbled in it, and many people have- there are tons of old Bandler and Grinder paperbacks in garage sales, it will not harm anyone. It’s just bullshit, plain and simple.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    blue Reply:

    @Barbara, NLP is a trademark, probably owned by Richard Bandler.

    It’s techniques were modeled after efficient therapists in their fields.

    Anthony Robbins uses the very same techniques but calls it by another acronym that he registered.

    People do things that “NLP” teaches before NLP existed.

    It goes all back to Sophists on Ancient Greek, getting paid (sometimes pre-paid) to teach others how to do things others could do, eg.: rhetorics, like our other post here cited.

    Thumb up Thumb down -2

    [Reply]

    blue Reply:

    @Barbara, also if you think this stuff doesn’t work It’s because you haven’t had experienced it.

    I’ve seen a real state agent using ericksonian hypnosis on me and even thought I study this stuff, It still had effect on me.

    Only later I rationalized the whole situation.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Barbara Reply:

    @blue,

    Anyone who reads SD’s blog is well aware that manipulation works, it’s the point of today’s excellent blog post.

    However, knowing manipulation or brainwashing or whatever term you prefer works is a long way from accepting the efficacy of a scam like NLP. People like James Ray are dangerous. He’s dangerous because he had no regard for human life. He put profits above people. But that does not make NLP a viable technique.

    “Neuro-linguistic programming has been rated as even more discredited than Emotional Freedom Technique (energy therapies), family therapy for schizophrenia based upon double bind theory, bioenergetic therapy, catharsis therapy for anger, and more discredited than marathon encounter groups for psychological development. NLP has also been rated at the same level of discredit as equine therapy for the treatment of eating disorders, reparenting, and dolphin assisted therapy.”

    That’s from Norcross, JC, Garofalo.A, Koocher.G. (2006) Discredited Psychological Treatments and Tests; A Delphi Poll. Professional Psychology; Research and Practice. vol37. No 5. 515-522

    I’m sorry a real estate agent scammed you or a “real state agent” as you wrote. And by the way, the word is spelled “synchronicity” not “what a sincronicity!” as you stated in your post below. The word “a” in your sentence is unnecessary. It should read “What synchronicity!” “A’ is an indefinite article that modifies some nouns but not all nouns. I think you can figure out for yourself what’s wrong with the following:

    “It goes all back to Sophists on Ancient Greek…”

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    blue Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

  • Silver Agave said:

    My hands cannot handle the massive amounts of applause this post deserves.

    As someone who has parents who were involved in cults, as someone who knows people who lost family members in Jonestown, I so appreciate the citations you give here. Seeing people close to me hurt by this kind of horrible persuasion didn’t help me when a friend scammed money out of me. I had planted myself firmly in the category of “not me” even with all the real life experience I had.

    When I see people victim blaming- “Oh, I would never be so stupid as to go in that sweat lodge/stay in that sweat lodge” or “Wow, they paid that much money for that- that’s stupid and they deserve what they got” or “People are free to do whatever they want with their money- they have to spend it anyway” – I want to sit them in a free Landmark Forum weekend and sales pitch them to fund my dream as they come out- invest in my Unicorn Breeding Program for a charter membership payment of $4997.

    Then a week later I’d ask them if they felt like that transaction was fair.

    Actually that’s a really bad example, because a week later they would be too busy in their next level of classes.

    Thanks so much for what you do here, Robot!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    blue Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

    Silver Agave Reply:

    @blue,

    Where did I say that?

    Stop fretting about who my leader is- it is still Zardoz. He gets all the proceeds from that $4997 check.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • MazeMan said:

    Excellent, excellent post, SD!! Two thumbs up, 5 stars and hitting the “Like” button simultaneously.

    The quotes from both Margaret Thaler Singer and Dr. Meerloo are compelling and give clear insight into the New Wage movement.

    Kenrick Cleveland, a teacher of persuasion, said to avoid being persuaded, just keep asking questions. I believe it is because it keeps your mind actively engaged rather than passively (and subconsciously) accepting what is being said.

    For the most part, over 100 years ago, critical thinking skills have stopped being taught in schools. Also known as Philosophy it is “the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.” And, it is the foundation of science.

    In medieval times, students were taught in the Trivium method comprised of logic, grammar and rhetoric. You won’t find those skills being taught as part of general education in public schools or institutions of higher learning.

    I’m coming to believe this is intentional so the masses are malleable and more easily persuaded and readily receptive to most anything offered them. To better understand this, read the 1940′s article by Dorothy Sayers titled “The Lost Tools of Learning” – It is so VERY, VERY insightful! http://www.cambridgestudycenter.com/artilces/sayers1.htm – It is a lengthy read though very much worth the time and effort.

    Keep shining the light, SD! The roaches are starting to scatter. :)

    MazeMan

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    MazeMan Reply:

    An excerpt from Dorthy Sayers article “The Lost Tools Of Learning”. This is from 1947 (64 yrs ago!!). Does it have a familiar ring?:

    Has it ever struck you as odd, or unfortunate, that today, when the proportion of literacy throughout Western Europe is higher than it has ever been, people should have become susceptible to the influence of advertisement and mass propaganda to an extent hitherto unheard of and unimagined? Do you put this down to the mere mechanical fact that the press and the radio and so on have made propaganda much easier to distribute over a wide area? Or do you sometimes have an uneasy suspicion that the product of modern educational methods is less good than he or she might be at disentangling fact from opinion and the proven from the plausible?

    Have you ever, in listening to a debate among adult and presumably responsible people, been fretted by the extraordinary inability of the average debater to speak to the question, or to meet and refute the arguments of speakers on the other side? Or have you ever pondered upon the extremely high incidence of irrelevant matter which crops up at committee meetings, and upon the very great rarity of persons capable of acting as chairmen of committees? And when you think of this, and think that most of our public affairs are settled by debates and committees, have you ever felt a certain sinking of the heart?

    (If the HTML tags are displayed in my comment, my apologies. Experimenting to see how to call out quotes in comments on this blog – as I’ve seen others do)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Barbara Reply:

    @MazeMan,

    Thank you for that link to an extraordinary article by a favorite author of mine. I’ve just finished re-reading her Lord Peter Wimsey novels. Few books of the entertainment type bear up as well under multiple readings as hers do. Her Cambridge education can’t help but be reflected in every sentence she writes.

    “For we let our young men and women go out unarmed, in a day when armor was never so necessary. By teaching them all to read, we have left them at the mercy of the printed word. By the invention of the film and the radio, we have made certain that no aversion to reading shall secure them from the incessant battery of words, words, words. They do not know what the words mean; they do not know how to ward them off or blunt their edge or fling them back; they are a prey to words in their emotions instead of being the masters of them in their intellects.”

    That perfectly expresses the susceptibility of far too many people to believe anything “because it’s on the news”. Nothing is more characteristic of what passes for thought these days to be little more than emotion.
    “It sounded good” (meaning it pleased me) “He seemed like a really nice guy.” ( means he flattered and stroked me) ” I know the program will work!” (meaning I’m so caught up in the happy vagueness of it all and I do want to make money with a minimum of effort) Even people who should know better seem unable to seperate an emotional response from a rational response.

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    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:

    @MazeMan, For your help about quotations:
    http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_blockquote.asp

    works at SD.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    MazeMan Reply:

    @Jack,

    Thanks for the tip.

    Appreciated!

    ;)

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    blue Reply:

    @MazeMan, bro thank you for posting that link… I was listenning to a TTC teaching on rhetorics yesterday… and the day before I was listenning to Kenrick Cleveland… what a sincronicity!

    Kenrick Cleveland is very persuasive and probably teached his stuff in the early days of Ross Jeffries’ Speed Seduction.

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    [Reply]

  • Foolness said:

    Crap, sorry for messing the above up.

    @SD

    “But it is mostly semantical because the way you describe “core beliefs” nobody really has any.”

    Well, I wanted to include core beliefs as one of those examples but I fear Hal may just interpret that as another semantical attack on his posts.

    The last thing I wanted to do is make Hal feel “Oh now he’s saying my definition of core beliefs is wrong and none of these exists. Fuck you Foolness.”

    Not only that, let’s face it: once you’re bringing up nobody really has any…that’s an entire separate gigantic beast along the lines of God doesn’t exist.

    There comes a point where the line has to be drawn in order for context to exist especially as a respect to the other person’s words. If I don’t do that, I’m not really listening to them anymore. I would be really someone who fits the definition of trying to be semantic.

    In this case, the most neutral line for core beliefs is that:

    core implies heart or center of something

    beliefs is beliefs

    Most people would casually use that term with that intent. Maybe they can explain it better but really what they’re saying especially in the context of manipulation is that you can brainwash someone which is, to my knowledge, is not true. It’s possible to manipulate someone to the point that they may as well act like they are brainwashed but they’re not really brainwashing them.

    “Which is probably pretty close to the truth … but it’s a strangely tiny quibble to be making here with so many words. People can be tricked :: and changed :: we don’t need to map out all the pathways with an fMRI to know that it’s happening.”

    That’s true and it would be a tiny quibble if Hal didn’t say:

    “So awareness of mind control techniques appears to be the best defense. But nobody is automatically immune to all of the techniques (as there are many). It’s based on science and human nature and in the wrong hands it’s a weapon, not entertainment.”

    Which is fundamentally what I was talking about. It never went into a quibble until Hal steered to a situation of:

    “Methinks you misunderstood what I meant.”

    …when you have someone say those words and you sincerely feel that they were the ones who misunderstood you and you care enough about their words (not the messenger, but the message) then any normal concerned person would try to reply back in such a way that it can start going down into things that seem like minor quibbles to someone else.

    “All of your comments so far have been strangely long and minutia based. What’s your deal? Is that a proxy server … or are you really from lands far away?”

    No, I’m really from the Philippines. I don’t know if there’s a proper term for it but I’m simply a commentor. If I find something that doesn’t match my knowledge, I comment on it. If someone comments back, I comment my knowledge back.

    Say I find Salty Droid, I read some of Salty Droid’s posts…I see something that isn’t being mentioned or maybe inaccurate and I feel like no one is touching the subject…I post. Then I move on to what I’m reading next.

    Maybe due to RSS or some new stuff, I find another Salty post, I blog back…move on to another blog/topic/forum… it’s really hard to say I am being nothing more than a commentor as that’s what I’m doing. That’s what the textbox is for.

    I could understand though why you may be skeptical because of all the trolls but it’s hard to define my deal as anything else. There was a post I felt I could respond to. There was a textbox. I posted…the only thing that makes the whole deal confusing is that I’m a poor communicator as I constantly say again and again.

    My posts are long because I feel I needed that length to explain myself. Again, take your question: “What’s your deal?”

    I can only think of two ways to answer that. Extremely short and extremely obvious but one that could easily be interpreted as extremely being rude or trolling or being passive aggressive or I could try to insert some length and hope the details of the length proves my sincerity.

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    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Foolness ::

    Fair enough. Hi.

    [Reply]

  • Jack said:

    Worth watching whole clip:

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

  • Cosmic Connie said:

    Yay, Salty. This is great timing, since the conversation about James Ray is heating up again, with those of us who hold him responsible for multiple deaths trying vainly to argue some sense and compassion into those who insist that the victims were adults exercising free choice.

    I’m glad you mentioned Dr. Margaret Singer. As you may know, she was sued by Landmark (formerly The Forum, originally est). They didn’t like the fact that she mentioned them in her 1995 book “Cults In Our Midst.” Apparently she didn’t actually call Landmark a cult but she put them in her book, and that was enough to get their dander up. They’ve generally been very quick to rattle the legal sabers at anyone who even implies they’re a cult. More about that here:
    http://shambook.blogspot.com/2010/03/landmark-forum-in-largely-its-own-words.html

    I love Dr. Meerloo’s suggestion of humor as a weapon against the mind rapers. You and I may have different styles of humor, SD (though I’ve been called a hater and a meanie too), but in the end, it’s all humor, and I think it’s one of the most powerful tools we have. A certain Mr. Fire recently admonished his critics by saying something to the effect that ridicule is not an option. What he was trying to say was that it is not a constructive tool. But y’know, I kind of think it is.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    mojo Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    I remember discussing this with Pat O’Bryan once over on your blog a few years back. My original intention was merely to point out the proud history of satire and ridicule, and I brought up Aristophanes making fun of Socrates as part of this history. Whereupon Pat apparently spent a whole five minutes boning up on Wikipedia, and somehow concluded that Aristophanes’ ridicule was responsible for Socrates’ death.

    I laughed uproariously at such a statement and tried in vain to correct him, but he repeated this assertion a few more times, claimed the comparison was apt, ignored the super-lengthy post I composed (explaining the circumstances around Socrates’ death and his relationship with Aristophanes) and finally shot me down for good by making a lame one-line “won’t wimmens ever shut up” joke.

    As Charlie Sheen might say, “Winning!” And he did. Because *I’m* sure not gonna bother arguing with that.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @mojo, Ha, ha, I remember that discussion. The main point Pat was trying to make, of course, was that those of us who write (and/or participate in the discussions on) “hater” blogs are engaging in character assassination and causing real harm to our snargets, even if we’re doing it in the guise of humor. And yet on the other hand Pat has said that we’re insignificant, that we’re preaching to the choir, and that we only have a few followers. Can’t have it both ways!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Barbara Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    I read quite a few Naomi defenders using that same tired argument. We all were misogynistic scum who loathed the idea of a “successful” woman and we were a handful of deluded souls doing the Droid’s bidding.

    We were powerful when Naomi wanted defending and powerless when attempts at misdirection were made. (Nothing to see here, it’s the Droid and his small but evil band of followers.)

    Indeed, you can’t have it both ways. But you can when you have nothing to think with and no ability to see the contradiction.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @mojo ::

    Aristophanes … the orignal hater {OH}.

    @cosmic connie ::

    Thing is though … my super meanness … like saying Naomi Dunford is as fat as a walrus but not nearly as adorable or smart {the type of thing I know you object to} … that’s not my “style” as a writer … that’s my daft cunning plan as an activist. There’s a significant difference I think.

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @SD, You’re right, of course, about the difference between hobby snarking (me) and the use of humor towards an end (you), and I wasn’t attempting to trivialize your efforts or give myself undue credit. Still, I suspect that even though I don’t have much of a goal in mind other than to entertain, even that serves a greater purpose on occasion. Shining the light of satire, parody, or subtle ridicule on those who have so richly earned it can, at the very least, be helpful to people who are considering an investment in the snarget du jour. It can also be therapeutic for those who are distressed about a loved one who has squandered money and time in the snarget’s schemes.

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    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie ::

    I wasn’t comparing us … just saying that the meanness isn’t really a style choice but a conscious plan.

    All the fucking fucks are for style … but attacking the narcissists at their level is about science.

    [Reply]

  • Walt said:

    Here is an audio recording made on November 18, 1978, at the Peoples Temple compound in Jonestown, Guyana immediately preceding and during the mass suicide or murder of over 900 members of the cult. (Source cassette tape acquired from an individual [c. 1979] whose father was an FBI agent.)

    http://www.archive.org/details/ptc1978-11-18.flac16

    Additional information:

    http://jonestown.sdsu.edu

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

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    [Reply]

  • Ross Jeffries said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Ross Jeffries ::

    I don’t think “taking” is how one gets props actually.

    That’s one of the differences between being cool {me!} :: and pretending to be cool{you!}.

    It was a great recommendation though.

    [Reply]

    what?? Reply:

    @SD,

    Truer words were never spoken.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Clark Reply:

    @Ross Jeffries,

    I’m out of props, but you can take one of my thumbs up for the book recommendation.

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    [Reply]

    blue Reply:

    @Ross Jeffries, props for you for recommending Prometheus Raising for me. If people only read the first chapter on “Prover and Thinker” this site would be much better…

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • Ross Jeffries said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

    Soy Sauce Reply:

    @Ross Jeffries, Are you commenting in stereo now?

    I will try to get the idea of that book being mentioned by a UFO researcher out of my mind. We should probably stick with human manipulation and leave aliens to their own problems, like having to tolerate just now receiving broadcast transmissions of crappy earth sitcoms from 10 years ago.

    Also, I didn’t realize you had a book club.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    RT Reply:

    @Soy Sauce,

    “Also, I didn’t realize you had a book club”

    That was funny … since oprah is retired somebody has to do it :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @RT ::

    … it’s a very sad club.

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:

    @Soy Sauce,

    Gwen DeMarco: They’re not ALL “historical documents.” Surely, you don’t think Gilligan’s Island is a…
    [All the Thermians moan in despair]

    Mathesar: Those poor people.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @Soy Sauce, he thought it was a cookbook.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • hrmmm said:

    Every day, in every way…I am becoming more aware of my own gullibility.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:

    @hrmmm, It’s a good affirmation for me so I posted it all about the mirrors around me.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:

    @hrmmm,

    When you get the T-shirts done up with that affirmation printed in reverse (so I can read it in any mirror), I’d like to buy one for $29.97, please.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Lanna, Great suggestion. As elder stateswoman of the New Wage Louise Hay has taught for many years, mirror work is VERY important to one’s personal growth. One of her followers shows by example:

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Module_One Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie – Wow. Her voice made me want to slap her.

    Here’s a good exercise for “mirror work”:

    Look in the mirror and say “I trust that you’re not going to be taken in by any scam artist because you’re smart. You think. You ask questions. And you don’t give exorbitant amounts of money to people for information that you can find for free at your local library, about 90% of the time.”

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    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    When you first posted it, I could only see the beginning of your post at the top of the page, so I googled Louise Hay.

    Boy, talk about the onion that’s golden on the outside and maggot-filled on the inside. First I read this article on mirror work; it seemed safe enough and even has a bit of humor at the end. I watched the video. What’s up with this lady’s makeup? She seems a bit off, but then most YouTube stars do.

    Then I found a website covering both Louise Hay and Joe Vitale. Bad, bad company.

    Finally I dug into her “your illness is your own fault” philosophy. Wikipedia said she self-identified and self-healed cervical cancer, but no doctor could confirm that. Well, that’s Wikipedia. What does Louise herself say? Here she writes, “Fibromyalgia is fear showing up as extreme tension due to stress.” Um, what? “These are all thoughts that poison the body. When we release this burden, all the organs in our body begin to function properly.”

    Thanks but no thanks, Louise. I’m going back over to the NIH, where “fibromyalgia is considered a rheumatic condition” that’s treated with medication, exercise, massage, acupuncture and transcranial magnetic stimulation. Magnets FTW.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Lanna, Thanks. I finally figured out that maybe my original post did not show up b/c I didn’t embed the video, but just provided a link. My bad. Some videos don’t allow embedding but I failed to even check; I just copied and pasted the link without thinking (my usual m.o.).

    I’ve been following (and making fun of) Louise Hay’s work for many years, my original inspiration coming from a 1980′s edition of her classic healing-by-affirmations tome, “You Can Heal Your Life.” At the end of the book there is an encyclopedic list of diseases and conditions, with Hay’s take on the root (emotional/spiritual) cause of the conditions, and an affirmation or “healing thought pattern” to help “heal” it.

    Joe Vitale finally met Louise Hay a few years ago and blogged about it because it was apparently a big moment in his life. http://blog.mrfire.com/meeting-louise-hay/ He was surprised that she didn’t know much about his work, though seemingly pleased that she had recently added his pals Jerry and Esther Hicks — of Abrascam fame — to her stable of Hay House authors. I think Joe may have been trying to influence her to take him on as an author as well, though apparently that didn’t happen.

    Hay is, not surprisingly, a big fan of Abrascam-Hicks, and they have figured into some of her “I Can Do It” events. (If you really want to vomit, Google “Joy Joy Joy (I Can Do It),” a past “I Can Do It” theme song that later became part of an Abrascam-Hicks CD collection.)

    As usual, it’s one big circle jerk.

    On a more serious note: It’s easy for me to see the scam in Abe-Hicks and the other folks I poke fun at, but I always have to remember that any one of us, under the right circumstances, can be vulnerable to scams and “mind raping.” @hmmmmm’s “affirmation” above — and in fact this entire post and ensuing discussion — are good reminders of that.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    mINDIGÃO Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

  • Wyrd said:

    The article uses the word “demagogue” a lot so I thought it’d be good if I refreshed myself as to its exact definition:

    dem·a·gogue Noun: A political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.

    Hmmm… so that’d pretty much encompass every state and national level U.S. politician regardless of their party, yeah?

    (Disclosure: I consider myself a moderate liberal. But also a freethinking, skeptical way-too-serious, absurd-ist, weirdo. Check the sig.)


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

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    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Wyrd ::

    Only if you completely strip the word of its connotation … which you shouldn’t.

    And :: a more accurate definition would be …

    A political leader who seeks support by appealing primarily to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.

    Most U.S. politicians fall well short of demagogue status in favor of being overwrought in their fucking banality {See e.g. Al Gore}.

    That last full-on legit demagogue I can think of was George Wallace.

    [Reply]

  • Foolness said:

    @Richard,

    your post was to Hal but I feel that many of the contents of your post were not only in reply to my post but I feel you misrepresented them:

    “To say awareness is not a good defense is false, yes those who are intelligent are noted to be easily put into a guided state of hypnosis but that statement does not imply that the intelligent person is aware of the hypnotic process.”

    I really can’t understand why it seems people read too little in my post sometimes.

    I used hypnosis as one allusion to back up just several hints to my overall point and it seems posters run away with it.

    Not only that, we’ve gone from “watch this, you can be aware” examples to now alluding that there is one meta-form of awareness and all that awareness implies a quest for trying to be aware of a hypnotic process.

    It really confuses the issues especially when I have to reply that being aware of the hypnotic process is non-relevant as it’s not the process you should be aware of but the execution. The awareness of the process is only a good defense in a pseudo-skeptic sense. That is, your knowledge could make you be angry at a potential scammer but not necessarily confirm or defend against a potential scammer. All that really means is that the scammer has to repackage his scam to con you if he really wants to make you his target. When you consider that scammers are more like multi-sprayers of false hopes – that just means awareness is a poor defense as it’s a melting defense based on defending yourself in a situation where people close to you are not against you.

    Not only this, but again, it’s misrepresenting a point. A hypnotist cannot be credible in engaging a Milgram “experiment” for example since people are looking for proofs not pseudo-scientific claims. Similarly, a hypnotist makes for a poor soldier despite the fact that they have a stronger knowledge of how manipulation may work.

    Hypnotic process is often not a process at all. It’s a ritual. The mentioning of the intelligent person is just an allusion that if an intelligent skeptical person can be caught off guard, a hypnotic process aware person can also be caught off guard by a con-man who was smoother in inducing trance.

    I think the biggest problem is that people are projecting “Awareness is a worse defense” into :”you’re just telling me to never seek to be aware, to never be curious and I will have none of that. People and I deserve to know the truth and the process behind the truth.”

    If this is the case then at least emphasize that this is the case. Don’t try to mis-construct other people’s words.

    “Hypnosis as I understand it in the simplest form is just following a suggestion and becoming in a higher state of alertness/awareness.”

    Err… no. The simplest form is relaxation or trance. It doesn’t have to be in a higher state of alertness especially for mentalism.

    “Shifting to a Marketing point of view, the whole idea is to get people to buy products they think or feel they need using just about any means necessary via physiological messages. (Is it not?)”

    No. But marketing interpretation is up there with religion so I feel there’s no point in elaborating personal interpretations.

    “The the real “magic” is the subliminal message ingrained into the subconscious that never will be cured or healed and always need a “FIX”

    I don’t know if the debunking was ever debunked. I certainly don’t have any links to studies but to my knowledge subliminal messages have been proven to not work and when you really think about it in a “core beliefs can’t be changed” -> “have to convince the target to change themselves” process, then it just makes sense why it doesn’t work.

    Subliminal messages bypass not only the conscious mind but it doesn’t produce conscious loyalty. This is less relevant for hypnosis but for mass manipulation the sheer complexity of appealing a subliminal message for everyone in a way that affects at least 2 person in a random group of whom you know little about makes the effort hard to fine tune and makes the effort costly when there are so much better ways to manipulate a group and when peer pressure is much more effective at manipulation than individual subliminal message targeting via aiming it at a group.

    “Just one more thing, FORGET the Numbers 4-2-1 do not REMEMBER the numbers 4-2-1, completely disregard and forget you ever saw the numbers 4-2-1. Have you forgot the numbers 4-2-1 yet?”

    This is parlor tricks though and while the intended effect may be cool for people who unknowingly got this, they don’t even apply to cult induction. The scammers are not saying “Don’t” Buy This. They are not even relying on one word. There’s a reason why they go forth into storytelling. There’s a reason even in the video Hal linked the person was telling the host to do a bunch of stuff first. Not only that, if “FORGET the Numbers 4-2-1″ was really so powerful, don’t you think people would have opted for this instead of people developing spaced repetition programs like Supermemo for retaining memory? The concept is cool until even the simplest implementation makes the effect fall apart except for except for showing how powerful the mind’s brain can visualize on anything it’s focusing on.

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    [Reply]

  • Jonah Stein said:

    Wow, how prescient. This testimony was 2 DECADES before most of us had heard of Fox News

    Just as most soldiers believe bullets will hit only others, not themselves, most citizens like to think that their own minds and thought processes are invulnerable. ” Other people can be manipulated, but not me,” they declare. People like to think that their opinions, values and ideas are inviolate and totally self-regulated. They may admit grudgingly that they are influenced slightly by advertising. Beyond that, they want to preserve a myth in which other persons are weak-minded and easily influenced, but they are strong-minded. People cherish a fantasy that manipulators confront, browbeat and argue people into doing their bidding. They envision Big Brother coming in storm-trooper boots, holding guns to heads and forcing persons to change their beliefs, alter their personalities, and accept new ideologies.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • Dave Q. said:

    Damn, Salty! That gets right to the fucking heart of the matter.

    Fucking bravo! BRAVO!

    dq

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • Module_One said:

    Salty, another fine post. Manipulation does indeed work. It is insidious and often — just outright evil in its brazen intentions.

    Years ago, I was involved in a ministry that some have called a cult. At the time, I didn’t really think of it as a cult. There wasn’t the insistence to give away one’s life savings or a denunciation of family and friends who didn’t agree with it. However, I kept alert as best I could for the few years I was a member.

    One incident really irritated me. I held a position of authority and suggested a book for our home groups to study. The book’s message was about self-worth and the question was: Where do you get your self-worth? From people’s opinions? From what you can do? Or through a relationship with God?

    The “second-in-command” (SIC) guy not only shot it down, but during a separate meeting the next day, jumped on me for daring to suggest it again. (Which I had not. He was misinterpreting something I said.) I remembered feeling shocked by his reaction. Later, as I thought about it, I realized that the book I suggested would have opened people’s eyes to not placing their trust in leadership for direction but instead cultivate a trust with their own relationship with God. Hmmm.

    The SIC later told me he didn’t “trust” psychology. Gee, wonder why? Because obviously psychology would expose his manipulative ways. I realized then what was at stake in keeping the “sheeple” ignorant of critical thinking.

    I’ve always asked questions. Sometimes it’s gotten me in trouble but I don’t care. Challenging these shysters is exactly what more people need to do, in addition to mocking them. Here’s a few things I’ve learned:

    1) Scammers don’t like to be questioned or held accountable. “Death Ray” didn’t like people taking notes at his conferences because then he’d have to live up to his stupid-ass unicorn piece of real estate. It’s a good test to see what happens when you take notes of an “expert” to see their reaction. Or remind them of something they said. If they’re pissed, you’re onto something.

    2) Scammers like to elevate themselves as being “special.” Insistence on being flown First Class, having an expensive hotel room, or other demanding behavior is another good way to know you’re dealing with a scumbucket.

    3) Scammers often come in two flavors: The “Overbearing Overlord” or the soft “Pseudo-Friend.” One will try to order you around, control your life, or intimidate you. The other will act like they have your best interests in mind, saying things like, “You know I care…”

    I’ve noticed that some IMers have this annoying habit of presuming intimacies – such as telling their email lists, “I love you!” and “Hugs!” or “You’re so yummy!” Good night. These are sentiments I use with my husband and close friends, not with someone who is trying to charge $147 for an eBook.

    Another time, at before-mentioned ministry, the SIC wanted to make sure his direct reports took everyone to lunch for some stupid holiday. I refused to go. I sat in my office and he came downstairs to check on me. He engaged in small talk but believe me, I knew he was pissed because I didn’t go along with his plan. I was happy to leave that place a year later.

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    [Reply]

    mINDIGÃO Reply:

    @Module_One, which place was that? Scientology?

    Thumb up Thumb down -2

    [Reply]

  • Jack said:

    Be readdy to get some mindless-control from m-r-kilstein tonight where he wants to tell me about how to make $100,000+ working one hour/day tonight:

    “Details:

    Harlan is going to show you how to get to the first page of Google within a few minutes [[because now for just a limited time or how ever long your money will keep coming, he will be an SEO expert]].

    THEN he’s going to show you – very dramatically – a new method to monetize niche markets.

    Now remember, we’re going into the shopping season.

    And more and more people are buying online.

    Why not from you?

    Plus, Harlan’s going to show you sites his son is building where his goal is to make SIX FIGURES with ONE HOUR PER DAY [[Please see calculator on many envelope stuffing and email processing sales pages so you can multiple the ONE HOUR PER DAY by different numbers so you can quickly easily see how easy you can make $800,000 - $1,200,000 per year or also you can just hire some people to work ONE HOUR PER DAY for you and become an easy billionaire so fast, too]]

    Just slightly better than a full time J-O-B, right?

    So I’m going to make a few suggestions:

    1. Clear your schedule so you can be free to attend the webinar tonight.

    2. Bring a pad to take notes on. This is going to be a huge strategy session.

    3. Take action on what you hear tonight [[See envelope stuffing and email processing calculator again, please]]

    You’re going to be given take action content, so implement it.

    Here’s the registration link:

    http://www.snip2.com/re/bchk

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    [Reply]

  • mIndigo said:

    Frank Kern, Derren Brown, Kenrick Cleveland, Ross Jeffries* and others MAY OR MAY NOT deny that they use “NLP”.

    It’s to not give “NLP” powers.

    You may deny all you want that “NLP” does not work.

    It still works.

    *Ross, I just included your name ‘cos’ you despise the NLP crowd =D

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    hrmmm Reply:

    @mIndigo,

    NLP: http://www.skepdic.com/neurolin.html

    Money quote:

    NLP makes claims about thinking and perception which do not seem to be supported by neuroscience. This is not to say that the techniques won’t work. They may work and work quite well, but there is no way to know whether the claims behind their origin are valid. Perhaps it doesn’t matter. NLP itself proclaims that it is pragmatic in its approach: what matters is whether it works. However, how do you measure the claim “NLP works”? I don’t know and I don’t think NLPers know, either. Anecdotes and testimonials seem to be the main measuring devices. Unfortunately, such a measurement may reveal only how well the trainers teach their clients to persuade others to enroll in more training sessions.

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    hrmmm Reply:

    @mIndigo -

    See also: pragmatic fallacy
    http://www.skepdic.com/pragmatic.html

    The pragmatic fallacy is committed when one argues that something is true because it works and where ‘works’ means something like “I’m satisfied with it,” “I feel better,” “I find it beneficial, meaningful, or significant,” or “It explains things for me.”

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    mINDIGÃO Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

    hrmmm Reply:

    @mINDIGÃO, You’re not very smart, are you? No one said the placebo effect doesn’t work. The point is that the placebo effect /= a reliable treatment for anything. And the pseudoscientific explanations often given to “treatments” that only produce the placebo effect are dishonest, manipulative, and fraudulent.

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    hrmmm Reply:

    (In other words, just because something “works” does not mean that the rationale for *why* it works is automatically valid.)

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    Patrick Reply:

    @mINDIGÃO, The placebo effect works, but… it also requires the recipient to fully believe what they’re doing will work.

    So any ‘treatment’ relying on the placebo effect is explicitly designed to be misleading, and therefore unethical.

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  • Mark said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:

    @Mark,

    You had me up until “[s]cientific explanations are meaningless in this field of study.” That’s complete B.S. and the common response of self-help charlatans. PubMed has hundreds of scientific articles exploring when, why and how hypnosis works (or doesn’t work).

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    Raymond Reply:

    @Lanna, Maybe someone hypnotized him into making that comment. I wonder if he will remember doing it tomorrow. If I were him, I’d write a message to myself on my bathroom mirror using soap, just to be sure. I’d also check to make sure my lucky rabbit’s foot was still safely where I hid it.

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    Yakaru Reply:

    @Raymond,

    “Scientific explanations are meaningless in this field of study” — so that rules out making any factual claim about its effects whatsoever. It also means that it is not a “field of study”.

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    Raymond Reply:

    @Yakaru, Exactly. This is the slippery slope that leads us to the Matrix, or in extreme cases, the junk food aisle at the local gas station after everything else has closed.

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    [Reply]

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