135 Comments »

Wanderlost said:
“Some problems can’t be solved.” Right, but with a little effort you can almost always turn a small, nagging ‘pimple on the butt’ type problem into a humungous disaster that swallows up lives and crushes your career!
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

422 Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 10:42 pm
“I have a life coach, his name is Tim Brownson…one of the things he told me is that some problems can’t be solved.” – Naomi DumbF*(k so ironic
After the so what if you have mouths to feed recording it is clear that this can’t be human anymore. This woman does not care if people take money to feed their kids and give it to her. Boggles the mind.
WINNER!! ::   +8
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Anna Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
@422, Agreed, I’d be VERY turned off if someone was that condescending and pushy with me about something that didn’t feel right for me to pursue, or at least pursue yet.
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 1:23 am

Susie said:
Yes, those kids would love more time with a happy and stress free parent. If only that parent would actually stick around.
P.S.
I found your site because of the Naomi story (I didn’t believe her initial death threat claim so went searching). I am staying because you speak the truth.
I met some ‘Third Tribe’ people and enjoyed speaking with them, but it all felt a little Amway to me. You promote me, I promote you, we all promote each other and make $$. Selfishly, I’d love to see you do more around the Third Tribe because I’m not sure of the real set-up (never got in deep enough to really understand it) and if it really is what I’m starting to think it is (i.e another Syndicate type group??).
WINNER!! ::   +24
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Wanderlost Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 3:50 am
@Susie, I’m not sure, but I think it’s even worse than that. It looks to me like the ‘inner circle’ of the Third Tribe is actually IN the Syndicate. All the Third Tribe is is another feeder group to sell Syndicate frauducts to and provide more affiliate fodder into their sales funnels. And all the while that little ‘elite’ group of scumballs is playing off of an ‘outsider’ image, pretending to be ‘anti-guru’ and convincing the lower tiers that, since the big kids won’t let them play, they get to be part of their own, way cooler group.
WINNER!! ::   +8
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Susie Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 9:58 am
@Wanderlost,
This is what it feels like from the surface. As I said above, I hope SD will be writing more articles about this group.
  +1
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BananaTaco Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 1:33 pm
Yes, I too would like to see some more peeling back the skin (masks) of these marketing ‘geniuses’. It’s an embarassment to the human race that people are shelling out money for this shit. Ugh.
  +2
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 1:30 am

Martypants said:
yuck. it’s like stepping in poo with your whole body. I need mental floss.
WINNER!! ::   +19
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# 23 September 2011 at 2:09 am

Lanna said:
As I read this, I was struck by two interconnected trends. First, like so much of the Syndicate and The Secret garbage, there is a little nugget of truth that gives it a glimmer of legitimacy. Second, the level of “do as Naomi says, not as Naomi does” deceit is at the level of anti-gay gay-prostitute-hiring Pastor Ted Haggard.
Yeah, you should totally know your personal and business budgets and financials, but don’t ask Naomi how to do this because she doesn’t care. Sure, there’s gonna be tough decisions about business investments, but those investments are employees or equipment, not MMO crap. Yes, your family will be happy that you’re happy, but not when that happiness comes from some self-deluding Internet Marketing unicorn cult.
WINNER!! ::   +13
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PercyPennyWhistle Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 3:11 am
@Lanna, I think cult is the right word.
I found those audios to be quite unnerving, she talks absolute nonsense, but she does it with such conviction that you can see how the desperate can let their guard down and get sucked in.
*unhappy face*
WINNER!! ::   +11
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Lanna Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 1:15 am
@PercyPennyWhistle,
You heard conviction? I thought she just sounded mean. Before I heard this, I thought the meanness in her writing was just play. (‘You look exactly like a chunk of chubby girl sausage! LOL! Just kidding!’) Now I’m hearing the Ittybiz blog excerpts Barbara’s finding in this cruel, cruel tone. [Shudder.]
  +2
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 3:43 am
@Lanna, Exactly- they start off with perfectly reasonable, common-sense advice that anyone might give you – and then do their best to lead you off the edge of the cliff using the trust that that engenders- all for wads and wads of cash.
I mean- I DO think “I don’t have enough money to do that” is an excuse for an awful lot of people. I can’t count the number of people who make more money in a month than I make in a year who’ve told me how they wish THEY could travel like I do. What most of them mean is they wish they could maintain their comfortable lifestyle and travel comfortably as well- all without having to work. They sure don’t want to travel on discount airlines with only carry-on luggage, stay in hostels and hotels with the bathroom down the hall, sleep in rooms with overhead fans instead of air-conditioning, or eat in the open restaurant with the filthy floor with the locals.
I used, when I was much younger, to try and convince such people that they COULD do the things they said they longed to do. I had a boyfriend once who was so depressed over his job that he was having suicidal thoughts. He had tenure at a prestigious university in a city he hated. What he really wanted to do was buy a sailboat and sail around the world. I was full of helpful advice on how he could get a sailboat cheaply. I knew people who’d built their own, had heard of people fixing up wrecks- or even just traveling around and crewing for other people with yachts. I gave up trying to convince him when I found out he actually had enough money stashed away to buy a yacht AND finance his travels for several years.
I don’t try and convince people much any more. The thing is, though most people CAN do something if they want to badly enough, there are always trade-offs to be made. If those trade-offs are worth it to them and they’re ready to make them, all it takes is a book or a chance meeting with someone who’s done something similar- and they’re off. But for most of us those trade-offs eventually involve more than just ourselves. Most people are not going to sacrifice their family’s welfare to follow their dreams- and they shouldn’t.
I’ve come to feel that people generally know what they want and need. If they’re resisting going in the direction that looks like the obvious one to me- the one I myself would take, well, they probably have good reason. Urging them to go against their own inner promptings doesn’t make me a good and helpful person- it makes me a disrespectful, clueless creep.
WINNER!! ::   +10
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Jack Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 5:54 am
@Wanderlost, It’s why I always want to thank my grandma for providing me with my good and core set of limiting beliefs so I can’t get conned too easily, mostly.
WINNER!! ::   +10
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Unicorn Army Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 7:50 am
@Jack, surely your elite power-blogging “biz” must be generating a solid 2-figure income by now? Maybe you just need to try playing full on. I know that always helps me out with the X-Box, and X-Box is just like life. After all, isn’t everything a metaphor for everything after all?
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 8:06 am
@Unicorn Army, I have a plan still to make the 2 figure income which so far mostly involves setting up my PayPal account over to my bank account to go get the test deposits.
WINNER!! ::   +7
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Wanderlost Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 8:30 am
@Jack, I think Unicorn Army meant 2 figures [i]before[/i] the decimal, but hey, it’s all good! Free internet monies FTW!
  +3

Bonnie Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 9:32 am
@Wanderlost,
I wish I had you as my friend and advisor when I was young — instead, I spent almost all of my time and almost all of my money that I worked very hard for trying to build up my MLM business that they kept convincing me was “legit”, and “was” going to work, if I just kept at it! — well, I spent a couple of decades of my life, first with one MLM company, then realizing that it was a sham and would never work, and shortly after that being introduced to another MLM company by some very nice people (and they were!) so I trusted them, but didn’t realize that they were just as brainwashed by this “wonderful business opportunity” as I was. Then when I finally realized that “this” wasn’t ever going to work either, I got out and swore never again. Well, you guessed it — I got convinced by a friend whose boyfriend was a lawyer and he had thoroughly checked it out and this very new company was going to be “the” thing — and the premise was something I believed in — so I got into another one and spent a couple of years and lots of hard earned money — and then the owners, who by now had become millionaires or maybe even billionaires, just decided that they had no reason to work anymore and just shut everything down leaving us all high and dry. That was the TRUE end for me! (Ok, so I’m a little slow lol — but you just don’t know how convincing these people are until you’ve been in it yourself — and the thing is, the people getting you “into” the business are just as honest and as well meaning and as gullible as yourself — so they don’t know any better — only what “they’re” hearing that they are to do and teach.
And I would have gladly spent that 15 or 20 wasted years and all of my hard earned money travelling on discount airlines and sleeping in hotels with the toilet down the hall, and eating in cheap but good restaurants with the locals. Instead, all I did was waste my youth (20′s and 30′s), ended up with an autoimmmune disease that eventually prevented me from working even a regular job for regular pay any longer, and here I am a little old lady with a lot of wasted life and many broken dreams, and a small pension check that gets me by on just my very basic needs, but at least I’m happy and at peace now — well, as happy as one can be knowing that my life could have been so much richer, and so much different, and that I could have experienced and enjoyed so many more things. And that is why I am Salty’s number 1 fan (or one of them) — these internet marketing scams are no different than the MLM scams that get you to work hard, spend all your hard earned money, and no one benefits except those at the very top and the ones who started the (scam!).
WINNER!! ::   +22
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Wanderlost Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 11:29 am
@Bonnie, I’m so sorry. Some of the nicest people I know have gotten sucked up in MLM scams. They never really tempted me- too much like the then-still-legal pyramid schemes that swept California in the ’70′s. (And my math is good enough that I know why THEY won’t work.) But I DID get caught up in the idea of a ‘work anywhere career’ on the internetz- and wasted several thousand dollars and 4 or 5 years I would rather have spent going someplace I’ve never been- or studying a new language- or even adding to my useless academic credentials.
I spent the first decade of my adult life trying to be a normal person and do what everyone else did- and after I gave that up I felt guilty for years about not doing what I was ‘supposed’ to do. Turned out that made me an easy mark for the ‘don’t listen to your family- you family doesn’t know anything’ variety of scammer. Which is where I have to disagree a little with Slowly Waking – you don’t have to be at a particularly vulnerable point in your life to make you a target. If you have an independent streak, if you want to be free to travel, if you want to send your talented child to a special music camp – or even if you’re just a nice person who, like Will Rogers, never met a man you didn’t like they ‘have an app for that’.
About the only interesting thing in my ‘education’ in internet marketing was discovering that these guys (oh, and gals- sorry Naomi) are VERY up-to-date on the latest research in psychology and behavioral economics. Read Dan Ariely or Richard Wiseman, or any of the others making fascinating discoveries about how our brains work and you’ll find the scammers are right there exploiting it with their frauducts.
(About the autoimmune disease… I hesitate to bring it up because it grosses a lot of people out to even think about it- but you might want to look into the question of why autoimmune diseases of all sorts are almost completely unknown in developing countries. I know if I had a debilitating disease there was no regular medical treatment for I’d do it in a heartbeat.)
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@Wanderlost,
Yes, but the hygiene hypothesis is still just that-a hypothesis. The current thought seems to be early childhood exposure is necessary to fully develop the immune system. If you’re already ill with an autoimmune disease deliberately infecting yourself with worms might not be your best option. (keep in mind I say this as someone who has recently undergone leech treatment, yep, they’re back and I watch this research with great interest)
WINNER!! ::   +8
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Wanderlost Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@Barbara, You’re right, which is another reason why I hesitated to bring it up. I don’t think they’ve even gotten to the stage of clinical trials yet. Anyway, I imagine Bonnie’s up on all the latest research- it just seemed to make so much sense when I read about it. Anything that’s co-evolved with us for millions of years as part of our internal ecosystem probably has some useful role to play. Being a totally useless and harmful pest (as humans are becoming in the world ecosystem and as internetz scammers are in the business ecosystem) usually gets you eliminated sooner or later.
  0

ShitStorm Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@Bonnie,
Thank you for your honesty…
  +1
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Lanna Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 4:50 am
@Wanderlost,
Haha, I’ve had my bluff called on my “I don’t have enough money to do that” bullshit! I totally want to adjourn to a cafe and discuss these grass-is-always-greener mind-games over a bottomless cup of coffee. In the interest of keeping comments on-point, though, let’s remember that the money issues Naomi brings up are part of the MMO unicorn myth.
The reality is that you can start a blog, freelance biz or consulting practice without investing a single penny. The money she’s talking about not having is the cost to buy overpriced how-to frauducts like Frank Kern’s Mass Control.
The other money reality is that you may never be able to quit your day job. Or, your family may have to make some quality-of-life concessions to live on what you love doing (trade-offs, as you say). The unicorn dream, though, is that you’ll be able to quit your job and make more money than you ever imagined, working just four hours a week.
So, the scammee quits his job to prove to Naomi that he really does “want it.” Then he spends all his savings on frauducts from Naomi & Friends. Increasingly desperate for income, he finally caves to the “you’re an expert” line and produces his own frauduct. I can’t say it any better than SD already did: “SummerCamp is all about quitting your job and becoming dependent on the sick machine for food and shelter.”
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 2:39 am

PercyPennyWhistle said:
Client: Every day when I get out of bed I feel a sense of self-loathing, I’m at my wits end and just want to know what I can do to turn my life around and stop feeling so shitty about myself.
Life Coach: Some problems can’t be solved
Client: errr, thanks?
Life Coach: That’ll be $500 please
WINNER!! ::   +21
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Foolness Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 10:01 am
@PercyPennyWhistle,
If only it were that simple. You should skim your average self-help category at the book store or even just the blogs these people write about to see how it’s even more malevolent.
Client: Every day when I get out of bed I feel a sense of self-loathing, I’m at my wits end and just want to know what I can do to turn my life around and stop feeling so shitty about myself.
Life Coach: Some problems need rules be solved
Client: errr, thanks?
Life Coach: That’ll be $500 please
…I know you were trying to be sarcastic but if you over-simplify the basic model, it’s going to contribute a wrong “haterade” myth as to why this methods are so effective and make it more and more like it’s not the scammers that are smart but more that the clients are dumb. The very same myth that allowed these guys to prosper in the first place because they can sprinkle enough little details to make it sound that they are above the hate.
It doesn’t quite apply to Naomi, she relies more on her unorthodox appeal as an alternative female blogger with a different perspective of doing things but guys like Bryan Clark gain prominence because he wasn’t quite selling the unicorn.
I can’t spot it now on his page but back when Clark was still mostly blogging his own articles, he made a sort of landing archive guide of his past blogs that didn’t require any e-mail registration and appealed to things that only newbies interesting in “copyblogging” would want and at the time it gained prominence because it was not just him telling the dumb person that problems can’t/can be solved. It was him easing any person wanting to blog to a better way of writing sort of like a free much more simplified newbie guide of a professional copywriting book.
The modern unicorn dream is always built on “rules first” not scams. It’s how they can get away from your cynical brain and if you present the basic level as if it’s so easy to figure out, then you’re going to create a new generation of people not being able to anticipate the next big scam. (Until another Deathray happens or another Dunford issue gets unwrapped and victims are lured in again.)
For a more intellectual example, think how many dumb and desperate people are trying to be polyphasic sleepers? Think of how many Wikipedia writers are alert at removing blogspam in each Wikipedia articles. Yet back when the Uberman sleep schedule was gaining some hype, Steve Pavlina single handedly got himself legitimately into Wikipedia via the polyphasic sleep article. It’s not because Steve Pavlina “researched” on the subject but because he blogged extensively about the subject when no other popular blog was doing it at the time.
…and these are books/blogs/static articles. Imagine how much worse it is for an actual life coach to be just telling you that “some problems can’t be solved”. Imagine if the haters popularized this myth further even just for the sake of satire. You’d be creating the pathway for a life coach to say, “Oh this is why I’m different from the life coaches that are often accused of just selling you dreams. I actually wrote a book. I’m actually giving you an advice.”
It’s the same song and dance with politicians. It’s fun to make and poke fun at Bush being an idiot but if you keep turning that into a fun urban legend, when the smoke clears, Bush doesn’t get impeached. America’s debts add up further. Wars are still being continued. Bush gets re-elected a 2nd time. (I don’t care what people say about Kerry, if both candidates are bad you’re not supposed to get bamboozled into a game of voting for the lesser evils.)
These are the patterns that need to be joked and highlighted about. Not the post-smoke screen and mirror hatreds that will get voted up for simple humor but doesn’t really limit itself to the real evils and details of how cunning these cons are. So cunning that it should be a rule that if anyone hires a life coach, the satire should never make the client look dumb but the actual scammer.
  0
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Foolness Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 11:37 am
@PercyPennyWhistle,
If it sounds like I’m being harsh in my last post, just look at this recent article:
http://www.problogger.net/archives/2011/09/24/seth-godin-on-blogging-and-productivity/
Question: Fair enough. So can you tell us a bit more about what productivity means to you, and what motivates you to be so productive? Because obviously you are very productive.
Answer: Well you know, I think that
[it doesn’t count unless you ship it] (((motivation in a nutshell))) —that planning it and noodling it and refining it and thinking about it and
[keeping it in a drawer don’t count] (((you’re being too hesitant))). [You might as well do nothing] (((follow-up guilt trip mixed as practical pump up of life coach’s efficiency))).
[I think there are lots and lots of people who put in way more time than me] (((positive first to hide the follow-up negative)))
, [who may even create more than me, they just don’t ship.]
[No one calls up a plumber and says, “Wow, I can’t believe how many toilets you unclogged this week!” No one goes to short-order cook and says, “Wow, that’s your eight-hundredth hamburger of the week! That’s incredible!” Right? That’s their job. They ship for a living. If they don’t ship, they don’t get paid. And somehow we’ve seduced ourselves into thinking that it’s okay to hide. It’s okay for a playwright to write a play every five years. What was going on the other four and half years? I don’t know. If no one’s seeing your play, you’re not a playwright.] (((false anecdote pretending to be a true anecdote by basing the actions of more direct technical jobs, plumbing/cooking, and then transferring that to creatives, playwright, all while knowing the subject is productivity not about the specific differences of these jobs.)))
Of course, then the questioner whether it’s because they are sincere or just trying to bait the question that would sell the view count then asks:
[That’s interesting because I think many bloggers tend to see writing as a creative pursuit that does require shutting yourself away from the world, and having quiet time, getting in the zone, and noodling, as you say. And you’re not just writing blog posts—you’re writing book after book.] (((Part selling the dream, part making it seem that the dream can work for you. Part drawing it to the stereotypical imaginary attitude of a general art.)))How does the creative thing work for you? Do you take time out of your other work? Or is it just part of your regular routine? Are books and blog posts different for you? How does that work?
[End Quote]
Hopefully this makes it more clear why you can’t be very loose with these jokes. Advertising is everywhere. Marketing is everywhere. The scammers are not taking advantage of a desperate fantasy in vacuum, they are training themselves to sell part of the fantasy that they themselves are not part of but instead is being built up elsewhere whether it’s social aspects like dating, creative aspects like blogging and just fucking everything they can insert their fingers into. In order to sell the fantasy, they have to mix reality with fantasy. That means the formula is never ever to make the client “cash in”. They have to subscribe. They have to think there’s something more. They have to admire. They have to want to be part of it. They have to make the circle bigger. They have to build a MLM type of cash cow built on coaching coaches or using clients who received positive benefits as testimonials and crusaders of their cause.
Once you build a culture where haters dilute it to simply: “life coaches are ones who simply convince you that your problem can’t be solved” – *whoosh* You’ve just given some other life coach a taste enhancer to make them sound more credible. It can’t ever be emphasized enough. These things are like ninjas. You think it’s life coaching now or you think it’s 1 or 2 best selling book now or you think it’s just an interview or you think you’ve gotten how obvious it is that it is a scam and only fools get sucked into it, it’ll creep up on you and not just blindside you but build itself on top of many products that have real value and pseudo-value and consumer desperation and emotional linkages and then like that bunch of lights on a kid’s toy that kinda looked like it was the coolest thing ever – it clamps down until you’ve realized your constantly feeding it not to help you solve your problems but to convince you to hear words that talk about your problems like a catchy tune or a good episode of your favorite show that no matter how intelligent, few can resist defending against the tug of addiction.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   0
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Wanderlost Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 12:56 pm
@Foolness, I accept that you mean well and are not, as I suspected at first, trying to slip scammer-friendly messages into your exremely long, convoluted comments, but… for me- and I suspect for others- it’s just too damn much work to try and sort out what you’re saying. I’m willing to put in that kind of effort for a Grad school course – or for a couple of blogs I follow whose authors are a couple of light years beyond me in intelligence- but not for a humor site. I come here to relieve my feelings at having been scammed, vent my fury over the scams currently being run on friends- and most of all, to laugh. Sorry, Dude, but you’re just not doin’ it for me on any of those things.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Grover Lembeck Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Foolness,
I’m pickin’ up what your layin’ down this time. I don’t know why people are giving you thumbs down, unless it’s a dislike of verbiage.
It sounds to me like you’ve been there.
  0
[Reply]

Ben Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@Foolness, I think you coming from the right place, and I gave you a big thumbs up.
In one sense you are right that ridiculing or lampooning the guilty can make (some) of their unsuspecting followers want to dig in their heels and ignore the facts.
At the same time, consider this.
There are millions and millions of blogs, and truth alone does not bring them eyeballs with which to get their message seen.
So what difference does it really make if you provide the truth, but you have no audience?
The lampooning and humor have made this blog rise significantly into public consciousness because it is a powerful attention-getting BEACON.
And while the humor may rub some the wrong way, the underlying truth is now able to reach more people than most blogs could ever hope for.
As they say, “you can’t win ‘em all.”
However, this blog IS winning more than it otherwise would if it were lost among the millions of other blogs out there.
For that I say: “mission accomplished.”
  +4
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Ben and the rest of the guys/secret gals,
Message received (No, this is not an innuendo for Challenge Accepted).
It didn’t read like this was a pure satire at first and comments like mine sounded like they belong so I posted. I’ll just go back to lurking then.
One thing I do want to address though is that it seemed my comment to @PercyPennyWhistle is being interpreted as a representation of Salty’s entire site. I heavily disagree there. Salty might be humor but what makes Salty different is that he’s a droid.
Especially for a blogosphere that lacks real facts, the way he shares audio interviews or video updates or behind the scenes details is what sets him apart.
It really wasn’t the humor that attracted me to this site and for the most part it turned me off but luckily I chanced upon something Connie said and I paid more attention to Salty’s posts (fully listened to the Debbie audio for ex.) and then found out how refreshing Salty’s post are for actually dealing with specifics. None of that wait for the book to get the expose kind of blog marketing.
As far as the audience, that’s always a tough sell especially for a poor communicator like me. I just often let the wind decide when I post or not. My most often comment when dealt with this situation is to always consider whether my perspective would be posted by another person or not. If not, I post. The truth… well that’s only something the better messengers can impart. I just drop my perspective and let the community unravel itself from my actions – whether it is their desire to ignore, reply or hate, support or point out where I’m wrong and then I just leave for other pastures in the hopes that I know more about the world than when I first wrote these things.
  -3
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@Foolness,
Did you read SD on the importance of humor in deflating these gasbags? I gave PercyPennyWhistle a thumbs up because his post was succint and satirical.
  +5
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@Barbara,
Nope but depending on the title, I may have read it. I do understand the value of humor though. (Hard not to due to the popularity of the Daily Show.)
I guess I might as well link this reply to Salty’s reply below so that it’s one comment and I don’t have to add more to the stream here.
It may be or it may not be a communication error. I never really think much about it. I feel if I did then I would have my own agenda and that belies what comments are for. If I need to think much about it, I should put more importance to it and then just totally make it a blog post. Only when I don’t have that conviction and truly feel like it’s a comment do I comment.
I saw a joke I felt that didn’t represent the true basic case to my knowledge. I weighed in whether as a joke it was good or bad, decided that it was too mis-representative of the actual situation kind of like a stand up joke people would laugh at but when the issues turn up elsewhere, they let the stereotype joke transform their hate and I added a post hoping to showcase a balanced counter-view.
Since the post I’m replying to was popular anyway, trying to disagree with it wouldn’t hurt much of the post’s content and if the poster was sensitive and was offended, I felt the upvotes they got would easily counter balance that feeling.
I guess it’s just a difference of perspective. I never really see my comment as a horse. I just see it as a comment but an important comment that at least needs more concrete examples derived from whatever examples/analogies pop up in my head in order to make clear why as unpopular as comments like this may be, sometimes someone has to say it and say it with some hint that it’s not just to be a party pooper or to attack a person.
  0
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SD Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@Foolness ::
Dude … too long.
I like some of what you’re serving up :: but nobody wants to eat a whole fucking horse.
And you’re making a communications error by directing your remarks toward individual commenters and their individual comments rather than to the general points being made here … which I think is what you actually intend to address.
People can express their opinions :: and you can express your opinion :: but I have little to no interest in your opinions about other people’s opinions.
[Reply]

You're so silly Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 7:52 pm
@SD,
Speaking of horse, this one time, in band camp …
Funny word picture of chubby girl sausage aside, she doesn’t look that bad in those skin tights — for a narcissistic, delusional con-woman.
  +2
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 8:24 pm
@You’re so silly,
“for a narcissistic, delusional con-woman’ with a prison haircut and the overall doughiness of a long termer. Maybe she could be a contestant for Miss CellBlock-C.
  +3
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 2:58 am

Anonymous said:
“Smart decisions are important.” But mouths are surprisingly cheap to feed…. Really?
@Martypants – mental floss won’t begin to clean that shit outta your head.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Anna Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
@Dave, I suppose that depends on whether you want to feed those mouths with Ramen noodles or actual food. I guess I’d put my family actually eating real vegetables and meat in front of my pursuit of a costly, glitter-shitting unicorn.
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 7:13 am

what?? said:
I wonder if Brian Clark will now start a twitter campaign complaining about SD calling him a ‘self-delusional fat girl’.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:44 pm
@what?? ::
… he’s just gonna lock himself in the bathroom and cry.
[Reply]

ShitStorm Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@SD,
you mean lock herself in the bathroom and cry
  0
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 7:17 am

Rafael Marquez said:
Spanx, that’s funny. Why would she wear something like that on video?
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 8:59 am
@Rafael Marquez,
Um, cause she’s clueless about absolutely EVERYTHING?
  +6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:49 pm
@Rafael Marquez ::
@_cartman_ posted all these S3 links to her “failproof” video series on the first spider post :: she’s dressed like a clown in every video.
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 8:11 am

Hal (the original Hal) said:
“a chunk of chubby girl sausage” … yes, that was mean … to your readers!
Here I am, eating my lunch … black forest ham with Greek salad … and I almost gagged with that nasty thought planted in my head. :-(
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@Hal (the original Hal) ::
… maybe I should have said something classier … like white girl chorizo.
[Reply]

Anna Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
@Hal (the original Hal), at least you weren’t watching a video of Andy Jenkins dancing with a feather boa for a prop on your phone when you were standing in line at the airport…
  0
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 9:08 am

mojo said:
Based on the one inner knee that’s visible, they look to me like riding jodhpurs. Jodhpurs are skin-tight leggings with (often leather-) enforced inner knees, since that’s making the most contact with the horse (posting, forward position for jumping, etc.) when one is riding English.
They would never be my first choice for having a picture taken. Like those Spandex bicycle pants with the weird built-in padding, jodhpurs are *universally unflattering* on anyone who wears them. Hence I’ve only seen people wear them when there is a barn nearby, since they are a good design for their intended use (actually riding horses).
I suppose if someone wanted to look “horsey” (in the income bracket sense) one might consider wearing them in public, but even a couture-challenged gal like me knows better than to wear jodhpurs for anything more public than the occasional “I-smell-like-a-horse-but-what-the-hell” grocery store run on the way home from the barn. As unflattering as they are, when they’re covered with horse hair and horse sweat and other horse excretions as nature intended, they are even *less* attractive.
  +6
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 10:01 am
@mojo,
Oh, I don’t know about those spandex bicycle pants and shorts, Mojo — when I see some of these young men around here walking their bicycles and wearing those “spandex”, I don’t think it’s all that unflattering at all… yep, I may be old, but I’m not dead… and I may have a lot of broken dreams, but I can still dream. ;)
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

mojo Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 10:35 am
@Bonnie,
I agree, and I too admire such things, but it is a question of ratios. The number who wear them vs. the number it actually looks GOOD on is, IMO, on the low side. Like the whole shirtless male thing, or–to make this eye candy discussion more universal–the young male’s fantasy of being able to peek into the women’s locker room. While there are always exceptions to the rule that make one go “oooh”, like many other unicorn dreams the stark reality is usually far, far different from what is originally imagined. :-)
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 11:10 am
@mojo,
lol, Mojo — maybe I have “tunnel vision” and only notice the ones it looks good on! lol
And as for the “shirtless” male, there truly ARE very few who should even be allowed by law to go topless ;)
And “the stark reality is usually far, far different from what is originally imagined” — oh, how I know that to be so true! Just like the scam business opportunties, big promises, little to no return. ;)
  +6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@mojo ::
Hopefully now this blog will finally rank for “jodhpurs” and “horse excretions”.
[Reply]

mojo Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 4:40 pm
@SD,
Consider it my humble SEO gift to you, Salty. Though given most of the stuff you’ve covered on this blog, I’d be surprised if you don’t already rank pretty high for the excretions part. :-)
  +4
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 9:47 am

Barbara said:
Ah, Naomi. Naomi of the pointlessly filthy mouth. Naomi whose idea of an interesting blog post to help your business is:
“Bonus Moral of the Story: It’s Not All About You. Or Me.
The whole internet isn’t going to crash just because I said “slut”. Oh, and by the way? Slut slut slut slut slut slut slut slut slut.
Slut.”
***************************************************************************
In case you didn’t catch that piece of brilliant writing Naomi said slut, eleven times in this blog post. It’s not quite up to her usual standard, she’s bragged endlessly about the time she said “cocks and balls” twenty-three times in one blog post and how it increased her traffic.
Wouldn’t you like to go to camp with Ms. Pottymouth? She’s stuck in the developmental stage of a four year old who says poop to shock the other kids in nursery school.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

You're so silly Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 7:56 pm
Dear Barbara,
I like the way you talk.
Sincerely,
xoxo
  +4
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 8:40 pm
@You’re so silly,
Thanks…and,um xo to you as well.
I really, really hope you’re a guy….
  +4
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 1:11 pm

Barbara said:
Out of the mouth of Naomi:
“I’m really pissed. Green with envy.
I know being envious of my home business clients is really pathetic. I know that I’m being totally immature and childish and a complete princess. But I’m envious and I hate it.”
“When you decide to become a consultant, you open yourself up to surrounding yourself with people who pay you to give them advice. If you’re even mediocre, what you know is probably more than what they know. They’ll actually implement your advice and then they’ll succeed… This is the goal of most service-based IttyBizzez. It’s great when you finally achieve it. But. And there’s always a but.”
“Nobody really tells you what happens once you reach the goal.”
“Your own small business suffers. Often horribly.
If you’re a web designer, you don’t have time to implement changes to your own site. If you’re a writer, you don’t have time to fix your own copy. If you’re a marketing consultant, you don’t have time to work on your own marketing… other people have better numbers and you hate them.”
“Isn’t that nice? They hate you because you’re making money and you hate them because they’re growing faster than you are.”
“Like a giant, human-sized hamster wheel of hate.
I know I will get over this little jealous phase. I know it’s a plateau and I’m just being stupid. I know I should be grateful that people are paying me to do what I’m good at and I’m allowed to drink wine out of the bottle at work.”
“(Side note: As I was formatting this post, Ellen was on TV in the background. Out comes this 6-year-old breakdancer. I’m watching him bust his moves and turn to Jamie and say, “Why the fuck can’t I breakdance like that?” It would appear that I am even envious of kindergartners right now. I am a flawed human being.)”
***************************************************************************
So, let’s review, shall we? Naomi hates her clients. Naomi is jealous of small children. Naomi wants to be paid, and paid well, for her admittedly mediocre advice but then she’ll resent the hell out of you if you make so much as a nickel and don’t hand it over to her. Naomi drinks wine out of the bottle and watches daytime television, ( the Ellen show *shudders*), while composing her unsurpassed blog posts. ( and it shows…) Naomi complains bitterly of having no time as a writer but this is how she spends her time.
As to the rhetorical question “why the fuck can’t I breakdance like that?” perhaps because you’re a fat tick bloated on the blood you’ve sucked from the uninformed? Or maybe you have no talent? I’m sure you’ll tell us and all in words of four letters.
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]

SD Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 3:12 pm
@Barbara ::
What was the date on that post?
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@SD,
April 10 2008.
  +4
[Reply]

Sundog Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
@SD,
Wow – hamster wheel of hate – its like she got it and then dove face-first back in
  +5
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
December 2nd, 2011 at 5:05 am
@Sundog,
Which I guess shows she hasn’t really gotten it yet.
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 1:43 pm

Cosmic Connie said:
I might as well be honest. I know I’ve come out repeatedly against “mean” humor, but “a chunk of chubby girl sausage” made me laugh, and I didn’t even feel guilty afterward. Thanks for another good post that goes behind the scenes to reveal how the sausage gets made, so to speak.
WINNER!! ::   +16
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 11:46 pm
@Cosmic Connie, I didn’t understand about the problem with mean humor until this post really, because I thought it maybe it was going on over the line to criticize sausage just so, so meanly like SD did here.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 3:55 pm

Mahatma Smith said:
Here’s another example of clueless repeaters blindly passing along the spider’s lies and propaganda:
“PLEASE go read this post.Naomi Dunford is being attacked (really attacked – not just trolls) and she’s not the only one.”
https://plus.google.com/102572422628455205397/posts/EcQsymEy646#102572422628455205397/posts/EcQsymEy646
“Really attacked?” and “Not just trolls?” How ridiculous.
At the bottom of that comment, you can see where another 9 clueless enablers even passed that on.
  +3
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 6:14 pm
@Mahatma Smith,
That’s an old post — but he sure looks clueless alright!
  +1
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@Mahatma Smith,
Thanks for that, I followed it back to a site called “Cash and Joy” tagline ‘marketing from your magnificence’ where someone named Catherine Caine was heroically going to battle to defend Naomi against our death threats. Because, if you recall, Naomi ammended her initial charge against the Droid to be “some of his readers and commenters”. So, that is clearly stating that it is someone who reads and comments here who Naomi is accusing of making death threats.
I’ve asked Naomi before and I’ll ask her again: Who? Name names. Give us an email address. Or an IP address. And listen to the sound of crickets…
But one person at “Cash and Joy wrote” an excellent comment:
“Catherine Caine uses a fake death threat to support a scam artist who has ripped off innocent folks and who was plotting to steal tens of thousands of dollars from the Canada Revenue Agency.
Catherine implies that fake robot, The Salty Droid, sent Naomi Dunford a death threat. Catherine writes, “Naomi Dunford runs a site called Ittybiz. Recently, Naomi wrote a post that said that she had received death threats.” In the very next sentence Catherine writes, “These are facts.”
The implication being that Naomi Dunford actually received a death threat from The Salty Droid. The only ‘facts’ related by Caine are:
1. Naomi Dunford runs IttyBiz.
2. Naomi Dunford ‘claimed’ to have received a death threat from fake robot mean site.
Did it ever occur to Catherine Caine that Naomi Dunford was lying about this death threat? Before going off on this rant of blog post why didn’t Catherine Caine do some thorough research?
Here’s Caine’s explanation:
“Whatever happened or did not happen, the point I wrote this article to make is still 100% valid.”
Reserving comment on Ms. Caine’s poor grammar, let’s explore her reasoning for misleading us. She’s saying it’s OK to spew any nonsense she chooses because a general statement is, well…..a general statement.
This is sloppy journalism at best, disgraceful behavior at worst. Well Catherine’s no journalist, she’s an IM who plans “to change the world” (her own words). If your project is to change the world, being honest to your readers would be a good place to start.
Unfortunately, important women’s issues and protection from real death threats and scam artists may have been diminished by Catherine Caine allowing Naomi Dunford to continue perpetuating a lie.
Chuck Rosseel
************************************************************************
Excellent post, ( I particularly like his comment on Caine’s grammar!), and he makes several good points.
Chuck, if you’re reading this, many thanks.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Jade Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 1:15 am
Just a note -
Catherine was one of the people I went to early on when I didn’t know how to handle some of the stuff that had happened. Her response was to take a stand, which led to that post I wrote.
I don’t believe she supports what has happened – she does know a lot of the background. She just didn’t know of this specific site or what was being said. My initial response, like many others was, ‘serves them right’ and I think she was saying that it wasn’t cool to think that.
  +1
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 3:15 am
@Barbara,
Ouch- that site really hurts the eyes. (For those who want to spare themselves the pain- bright orange background. Visit and go blind.)
Chuck Rosseel sounded like a pretty reasonable guy so I Googled him… Aaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiii! Can of worms… The first thing I see is Chuck Rosseel promoting Cash Gifting (along with the ubiquitous- and infamous – claim that it’s 100% legal). Then we get to his ‘credit repair’ services- and finally, I click on his blog and find out he’s the guy behind the ‘WarriorForumSucks’ site. I’d seen that site before and been kind of puzzled by it. I mean, there’s reason enough to hate the Warrior Forum, but this guy seemed to be totally obsessed by one of the moderators there – Paul Myers- who, out of all the potential and legitimate targets on that site, I can’t imagine would top any reasonable person’s list. Putting Chuck Rosseel the Cash Grifter together with Chuck Rosseel the moderator-hater, however, causes the penny to drop. Because for all its sins one thing the Warrior Forum DOES do is shut down- fast- the Cash Grifting threads.
Oh well. It was still a pretty good comment. I guess, as my father-in-law used to say, “Even a blind pig gets an acorn once in awhile.”
  0
[Reply]

Dale Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 3:51 am
@Wanderlost, Paul Myers is an arrogant, egotistical jerk, and I’m glad to see Chuck Rosseel skewer him. Myers is infamous for deleting criticism of scammers on the WF and outright BANNING the scammed party for complaining.
The WF doesn’t do ANYTHING good, they enable mass deception on a large scale, and one day the FTC and some state attorney generals will probably put a stop to it. Hopefully, the “stop” they put to it will include jail time for those they deem deserving, be it the scammers that use the forum, and/or any of the operators/moderators that enable them.
I’m not crazy about the ads Chuck runs, but he’s been a relentless, painful, constant thorn in the side of the rat-infested WF and for that I’m glad. He also repeats and amplifies a lot of what gets posted here, sometimes even more mercilessly than SD does. That I do like.
  +3
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 4:25 am
@Dale, “he’s been a relentless, painful, constant thorn in the side of the rat-infested WF”
I doubt it. If I can see at a glance that he has a not-so-legitimate agenda, so can others. How effective do you think Salty would be if, in addition to this blog, he was running a ‘brand-new-never-seen-before-100%-legal’ MLM scheme- with a sideline as an affiliate marketer?
  0
[Reply]

Dale Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@Wanderlost,
I just re-read your original comment, and realized that you were actually voicing support for Warrior Forum douchebag moderator Paul Myers.
After seeing all the surprise outings of scammers who have been exposed on this blog, it really takes a strong commitment to stand behind any specific internet marketer and support them by name, especially here.
You said:
“this guy seemed to be totally obsessed by one of the moderators there – Paul Myers”
“Paul Myers- who, out of all the potential and legitimate targets on that site, I can’t imagine would top any reasonable person’s list.”
“Chuck Rosseel the moderator-hater”
Wow. You were just defending Paul Myers, and strongly.
That warrior forum sucks blog covers a lot of other ground too, including providing details about specific scams and the specific people who are doing the scamming.
For some reason, you focused on the Paul Myers coverage. Your comment was clear: you don’t think Paul Myers is a “reasonable” or “legitimate” target.
I wonder why.
Your use of the “hater” reference is also one of the most common, yet hollow blanket dismissals that the scammers routinely throw around HERE to dismiss valid criticism. Given that, why in the world are YOU even repeating and using such a vapid non-excuse for your own purposes?
Question: are you now, or have you ever been a participant on the Warrior Forum?
I wonder if you are one of those people SD was referring to in his famous stats post: internet marketers who come here anonymously for “shits and giggles” or to assuage themselves, until the light of scrutiny gets shined on someone they connect with or support.
The Paul Myers posts on the “warrior forum sucks” blog do in fact provide some real insight into the funny business that takes place on the WF. One can disregard any ads, and ONLY focus on the actual facts referenced. By that, I mean those things you could easily validate yourself (WF thread cut and pastes, links, and comments made by victims using real names). Some of the more insightful Paul Myers comments also extend onto other posts not specific to Paul Myers.
People reading this should judge for themselves if they think Paul Myers (who Wanderlost suggests is not a “legitimate” target) is, or is not, a very significant and real part of the problem over there, and indirectly, over here.
Myers’ aggressive involvement, and his history of deleting complaints from people reporting being scammed, paint quite a picture. I’ve observed that scammer-beneficial censorship myself, as has SD, and many, many others.
It’s also worth noting that the “Warrior Forum” is a massive sucker pit that consumes and eats alive “newbies,” and also helps serve as a training camp for those with faulty moral compasses, thus assisting in generating new crops of scammers. Added up, the “money suck” that takes place there is NOT chump change.
Here’s another eye opener:
Looking through the posts on Salty’s blog, one will find a surprising number – perhaps nearly all – of the scammers exposed here got their start or have a history on the bullshit-riddled pages of the Warrior Forum.
  +4

Barbara Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 9:55 am
@Wanderlost,
Oh, fuck…well, I was just so taken by his smackdown of Naomi I did no further research on his name. That’ll teach me.
As for Catherine’s support of Naomi, it is full and unqualified and she is well aware of this site. She is also cognizant of all of the facts that have come out since the original phony claims of death threats. Still she chooses to continue the bullshit claims of “misogynistic death threats against successfull women”.
  +6
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@Wanderlost, Good find about the cash gifting which is probably a great and persistent example to warp a sense of reality by taking truth from one context and throwing it around in another context where that old-context “truth becomes meaningless.
Cash gifting I think really is a nice and distilled type of fraud primer to study the fundamentals of many of the types of other fraud.
  0
[Reply]

Shit Storm Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
@Wanderlost,
The warrior forum is rape central for newbies
Paul Meyers is massive piece of shit who is eye balls deep in all the scamming going on there
The warrior forum should be avoided at all costs…unless you like getting fucked over
  +2
[Reply]

Chuck Reply:
January 14th, 2013 at 11:20 am
@Wanderlost, I am not involved in cash gifting. What you’re referring to is something that occurred @7 years ago before I really knew anything about IM. It was that experience along with pie in the sky IM offers that opened my eyes to the pitfalls of IM. I made mistakes in the past but I’ve learned much since then.
Credit consulting and credit repair is a service that is recognized and regulated by state and federal law.
I’m not obsessed by Warrior Forum moderator Paul Myers. He is the main gate keeper at the Warrior Forum. He often censors legitimate criticism of fraudulent IM products and services hawked there so I have mentioned this in articles about the WF.
I do run Google adsense on my blog and I believe one ad for a hosting service.
  +3
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
January 14th, 2013 at 12:09 pm
@Chuck,
Well in any case, it’s nice to see your blog is back up. The more legit anti-scam that’s out there, the better, IMHO.
  +3
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 3:48 am
@Barbara, Ow, ow. Now my stomach REALLY hurts. I just found an approving comment on that post from a wonderfully talented artist whose work I admire.
It just infuriates me beyond words. Any woman who’s hung around blogs and forums long enough to have experienced the usual response to the crime of having-opinions-while-female is going to have a very hard time not giving a knee-jerk response of sympathy to Naomi’s ‘death threat’ BS.
  +3
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@Wanderlost, Sometimes maybe artists are more creative because they get out of the sense of reality so I was thinking maybe a good thing to whisper over to the artist is about that the telephone poles aren’t really special trees developed by the telephone company as a gesture of good faith helping, then see if you can take it from there.
  0
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
@Jack, I want to make the proper Peanuts Reference explanation now today:
“During the scene of the show, the music begins as Charlie Brown is center stage as Linus and Lucy enter. Charlie Brown confronts Linus and questions his doing. Linus replies that Lucy feels that as an older sister, she is responsible to teach Linus facts about nature. Linus finds Lucy very intelligent, for he is not aware the facts are incorrect. After each of most of Lucy’s teachings, Linus agrees with Lucy and Charlie Brown tries to tell Lucy what she’s telling Linus is not true. After Lucy explains snow coming up, Charlie Brown disagrees, but Lucy tries to say that when the snow comes up, it is blown around by wind, so it looks like it comes down. Charlie Brown, clearly cross, exclaims “Oh good grief!”, leaves, and bangs his head on a tree, which Linus questions. Lucy explains about the bark, and, only in the revival, sings the ending line”
Within actual comics Charlie Brown will also state “Ow, ow, ow. My stomach hurts”.
And eventually Lucy goes to far and Linus says, “that last one did it. I’m joining you” (or something like it).
Now I think SD has been making many “guru”-believers stomach hurt too much for them to believe anymore.
  +1
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 5:14 am
@Barbara,
Mo’Cash, Mo’Joy!
Mo’Cash . . . Mo’Joy . . . it dat simple, dawg!
I’ma finna sign up fo’ Mo’Cash, Mo’Joy, yo. Mo’Cash, Mo’Joy gots “Rigorous violent quality control” up in its hizzous, a’ight G?
That’s how you know they Coachsulting is fo’ real real.
An’ you gets a “free 30-minute blow-your brains out magnificent spectacular.” That some sir-eous shit, yo. That some sir-eous shit right up in there.
[I got distracted on the way to the blog.]
  0
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 5:57 am
@Barbara,
If’n you wants sumfin’ mo’ dan Mo’Cash, Mo’Joy, yo, dis bee-yatch also gots de “Kickass Naming Service” for de low low price o’ jus’ $197. She like “a freaking genius with words,” yanowaimsayin? Like, she write thing like “Surge and jerk.” Come on, yo, “Cash and Joy is a great name.” Give her alls yo namin’ to do.
You cans step up to de “DIY Magnificence” fo’ jus’ $297. It like Grade 2, yo. You gets a workbook, flash cards, CDs, a hour wit yo hot hot Cash an’ Joy teacher, an’ it come in a box wit a mystery prize like a old-skool Happy Meal. She “damn confident” you gonna like it. “(Woooot!)”
If de ass-kicking and de magnificence ain’t enough fo’ you, she can make you “Goddamn Radiant” like you blazin’ on de bestest rock, yanowaimsayin? She help you “Illumine your Bestest People.” Dey one who ain’t yo bestest? She show you how to git ‘im “with a machete, dump the bloodied corpse in a ravine, and help you change the locks so it can’t return.” Would yo fren’s an’ family do that fo’ you, dawg? Dey like poison. Dis bee-yatch jus’ $697. Operators is standin’ by.
[I can't find the blog. I am giggling too hard to find the blog.]
  -2
[Reply]

Krank Fern Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
@Mahatma Smith,
To this I say:
“Andy Dolph, you fucking Dolt!”
This guy is Naomi (vulgar :: uneducated :: rude :: unprofessional :: and unqualified) Dunford’s prime target.. No fucking clue and I’m sure he gets giddy at all the “sex talk and boob references”
She had him at first vagina joke.
This is Krank Fern and I approved this message.
*Note : any actually resemblances to actual Krank Ferns- especially those that would put their own mother on the street to later collect from her and say “it’s your fault for birthing me, bitch” are purely coincidental.
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 6:01 pm

Spiderman said:
I hate naomi dunford for all that happened to dave. But i also think that by creating website with letters is also damaging path of any further communication between dave and family. I mean dave was software tester before he got into IM, so by making such website they’re killing his ways of getting back to life. I don’t get the arguments in that website against dave – if you want him back at home, then cut the negativity. If you want to settle this via court, by all means go negative. From the looks of it, i do get the hints that it is religious fundamentalist ways of handling the matter. So not surprised at the tone used in that website. If we cut the negative variables (naomi and dave’s brother) i think we can see much positive side for dave and his family. But like it or not, naomi is playing victim card on one side of the fence and dave’s brother beating dave on another using that website. I’m looking at this from resolution perspective, both naomi and dave’s brother are not contributing to solution of this problem. Just my two intergalactic spider venom cents.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -3
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 5:30 am
@Spiderman,
I’m sure if Dave had a change of heart, his brother would likely remove the website. However, your attempt at reasoning the situation is piss-poor at best.
Dave made his bed a couple years ago, now he gets to lie in it.
Pun!
  +2
[Reply]

Spiderman Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
@Jaime, sure it’s piss-poor for the likes of you who agree with all the reputation damage attempts on that website. Change of heart and fix up will do nothing with such website removal. It’s already archived on many sites like archive.org and google cache. There are ways to resolve issues and then there are ways to add more negativity into the issue. You go with the second just because it goes against your thought process and you want it to justify the way you feel comfortable.
  -2
[Reply]

Anon Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@Spiderman,
As far as reputation goes, I’m pretty sure Dave did all the damage himself. There’s a saying about when you have nothing to hide, the truth won’t hurt you but silence will.
I’m far more concerned about his kids being abandoned than I am about any perceived “reputation damage” that bringing that to light causes.
As far as sites being archived, the internet is in constant flux and ten years from now his “reputation” will have recovered pending a change of heart and google cache will be obsolete. Coming out and saying, “Hey, I made a mistake” goes a long way to repairing customer/business relationships.
Or he can continue going on the way the owner of Exxon did after the Valdez spill and ignoring the problem. Granted the analogy breaks down here since the captain and the owner were two different people, where Dave was steering his own failboat with a little “guidance” from Naomi Dunford.
  +5
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 8:56 pm

MazeMan said:
I wonder how Naomi Dunford feels about this blog ranking 7th and 8th for her name on the first page of Google search results.
I checked using Scoogle Scrapper so my results weren’t affected by IP, cookies, etc. – http://scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm
That’s gotta hurt! Ha!
  +3
[Reply]

Krank Fern Reply:
September 23rd, 2011 at 10:09 pm
@MazeMan,
I noticed the same.. be prepared for another dog and pony show
Be sure to google “Naomi Dunford” and then click from google to get to salty’s blog instead of using a bookmark or typing the URL in.. someone told me it will help with the rankings, lets test it =)
I’m Krank Fern and approved this message.
*Note: any resemblance to actual krank ferns or any living person(s) with a similar name, especially those that have recently started putting “no claim to income gains” and “results not typical” messages in videos to “make it their fault for buying” are purely coincidental
  +4
[Reply]
# 23 September 2011 at 9:16 pm

Cuthbert J. Twillie said:
“How to Sell A Sex Chair”
By Naomi Dunford
“Nothing about this post is safe for work. And I am not responsible for what happens when you click on the links. Which you should. Just not when your kids, your boss, or possibly your spouse are around.
Having said that, we’ll move onto today’s lesson.
Today, I stumbled upon the Tantra Chair. It’s a chair that you have sex on. (Theoretically, one could also do yoga on it, if one were so inclined.) And I’m going to tell you how they purveyors of a $1200 sex toy masquerading as furniture took me from “Are you out of your fucking mind?” to “Do you take PayPal?” in less than half an hour.”
http://www.tantrachair.com/en/content/2/chair/
To update her blog post to be more accurate, “today’s lesson” is this:
A not-so-successful internet marketing faker and tax evasion schemer, who has little public self control, decides to brag about the sex chair she impulsively purchased. She perversely presents her self-tingling story as some sort of “lesson” when it only illustrates her lack of self-control and total lack of class.
If she hasn’t yet sold it in a yard sale, the Canada Revenue Agency might be interested in knowing she paid over $1200 for her sex chair. Of course, the fact that it was hers should discourage any human from ever wanting to go near it. Yuck!
From August 10
http://tinyurl.com/3mvelkc
  -1
[Reply]

KG Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 7:15 am
@Cuthbert J. Twillie,
Weird. Pillows are cheaper.
Eww on the potential yard sale.
  +1
[Reply]
# 24 September 2011 at 1:26 am

Cuthbert J. Twillie said:
August 11 – “This Just In: Entrepreneurship Makes You Impotent”
“We went to our on-site somebody-or-other, asking why the power might be out. “Dunno,” she says, not even looking up from her computer. (As subletters, we are basically negroes as far as she’s concerned.)”
“As subletters, we are basically negroes as far as she’s concerned.”
Now, take a look at the Twitter reponse to Naomi’s blog comment:
From RosettaThurman
Am I missing something? Are they calling Black people “Negroes” in Canada right now?
Aug 28
From NailahBlades
@rosettathurman The whole metaphor is whack. Subletters are not getting the attn they deserve so she likens them to black people?
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman
@nailahblades Yeah, I’m confused. To me, seemed to have a sort of undertone like “but we’re not negroes, so we should be treated better.”
28 Aug
From NailahBlades
@rosettathurman Exactly! The whole thing is ridiculous. It looks like this is an older post which means that people read that & saw no issue
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman
@nailahblades I just noticed that it wasn’t from this August. If no one in the marketing world called her on it, that irks me even more.
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman:
So, @NaomiDunford has a HUGE audience, including many Black marketers…and no one had a problem with her use of the word “negroes?” OK.
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman:
“As subletters, we are basically negroes as far as she’s concerned.” http://ow.ly/6f6o2 by Ittybiz founder @NaomiDunford
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman:
Just in from Ittybiz. “Edit: We’ve received a lot of mail about the use of that word. She used it, not us.” I guess “she” means the landlord
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman:
Looks like @NaomiDunford just cleared that up. Seems it took a year for that edit though, so really thanks to the folks who emailed today.
28 Aug
From AmnaAhmad:
@rosettathurman Did you read the post? She’s actually quoting someone who said it – looks like it was edited to clarify this.
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman
@amnaahmad It was just edited 10 minutes ago, due to people contacting them about it, @amberjadams
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman
I know, that’s why ppl were upset RT @sylviaalston Edit’s response doesn’t quite pass the smell test. There were no quotes in the blog post.
28 Aug
From NaomiDunford
@rosettathurman Thank you for letting everybody know. Those were my landlord’s words, not mine. I am SO sorry for the confusion and offense.
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman
RT @naomidunford Thank you for letting everybody know. Those were my landlord’s words, not mine. I am SO sorry for the confusion and offense
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman
@naomidunford I think the problem was the post didn’t use quotation marks to make clear that those were not your words. Appreciate the edit.
28 Aug
From NaomiDunford
@rosettathurman You’re so right. Maybe let @Merlin333 know, too. I’m trash, yes, but racist, no.
28 Aug
From RosettaThurman
Like I said earlier, leaders stand behind their words. Much respect to @NaomiDunford for responding to valid questions from readers.
28 Aug
That was a bold-faced lie from Naomi Dunford. She made that remark herself. She was NOT quoting “her landlord.” That’s why she used parenthesis – it was her own thinking. It doesn’t even remotely read like it could possibly be the comment of someone else. She said exactly what she intended to say at that time.
Again, here is what she said:
“We went to our on-site somebody-or-other, asking why the power might be out. “Dunno,” she says, not even looking up from her computer. (As subletters, we are basically negroes as far as she’s concerned.)”
That WAS a racist comment, period. No doubt about it. She flat out lied to cover it up.
Anybody who has the gall to support this racist pig now is just as despicable.
Here is the full post in all its racist unglory:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110702122953/http://ittybiz.com/entrepreneurship-makes-you-impotent/
  +3
[Reply]
# 24 September 2011 at 2:19 am

Doctor Mario said:
Ok … so I am obviously not the target market of this particular frauduct peddler.
Because I probably would have never known {God willing} that Naomi Donefor even existed if it wasn’t for the Salty Droid robot.
But seriously? Really? People actually read her blog … and listened to her spouting this idiocy … and actually recycle her “content”?
And give her moneyz???
And make major life decisions based on dubious “coaching” from this squishy shemale?
… I’ll be the first to admit :: sometimes, there are scams on this site where I’m all like ::
“Damn, these guys are serious … The Droid caught them red handed!”
But with Naomi, it’s like everything she ever says is just bonkers.
And people still buy this shit!!!
I guess circle jerks have effective unicorn-summoning mind-powers @Doctor Mario didn’t learn at medical school …
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 5:35 am
@Doctor Mario,
We’re in the same boat. I’d never heard of this girl-sausage until SD. And you look at what she’s dishing out … and all you can do is shake your head.
But, I used to by Irwin Kern products, so who knows. A sucker is born every minute, right?
  +4
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Doctor Mario,
Ok, I said last time that would be my last comment but since it’s unlikely people who bought her products would justify why they did it out of shame, hopefully I can shed some light on this since I’m actually one of the people who have recycled her content (though I haven’t bought them)
Example:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=23098.msg209284#msg209284
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=23154.0
I even think around the time of a discount, I posted her link somewhere in that forum but I can’t remember what that link was and this was the only search result for ittybiz that I got.
Naomi is what I self-dub as the “honest non-expert guru”. It’s kind of like an anti-guru but the storyline these people tell is based on how they have tried the products and then found out the products don’t have to be expensive. Recently Ed Dale has been doing something like this too although I never went past clicking the link that says the 14 day 1 dollar discount that is now actually a 7 day discount will be extended for a couple of hours e-mail.
Ittybiz’s new free design has killed what little marketing appeal the original blog had but originally what was notable about Ittybiz is that unlike other media blogs, Ittybiz revealed the module in their first sales page. Not only did they reveal the modules but the modules was tailored to 4 lifestyles. I think it was ninja guide for bloggers, ninja guide for marketers, ninja guide for writers and ninja guides for programmers (last one I’m not so sure).
In combination to this, the original Ittybiz’s selling point was that there was this notable blog post where Naomi would show which of her products was the best seller. The message was: “If you can’t afford all of these, this is the first thing you should buy.” (and then maybe after you have gained some money due to her books, you can buy the rest)
On top of this, Naomi has a more honest feeling way of selling the bonuses. Most IM get you to buy and say you will get these bonuses. Naomi did it more with blog posts and to my recollection, she never used scarcity. (until nowadays but I haven’t been checking the blog) Instead it was as if “it’s holiday time” again and it’s time for her to provide discounts to her highly profitable and trustworthy products with a buy 1 take 1 kind of sale.
Among the ones I’ve encountered, she really was the only one who did it this way. It never made me buy it but I mean the entire thing is very Sonia Simone when you register for the free Guestblogging guide except Sonia because she’s insisting on Guestblogging sounds more like a shill but Naomi was talking about the whole enchelada and especially with the original product prices, I consider her one of the most appealing cheap product/e-book IMers out there although obviously I don’t know how many bought her products but that’s her appeal from when she hooked me. I would even go so far to say that many internet marketers hook me either on the first look or after I’ve watched their entire video. Naomi didn’t do that and her blog (especially since it’s somewhat tailored to women) kind of turned me off but at the same time, her free initial newsletter/guide had to be one of the best written ones I’ve read especially if the person was a newbie and had registered for multiple free newsletter spam. By far it really read like she was more of an expert because it seemed like she revealed more of her free stuff than other gurus. Unfortunately I don’t have a copy now. I only remember my experience as to why I was hooked in by Naomi’s blog. (This was so long ago that by the time I’m reading this, I’m absolutely apathetic towards the situation. I’m not even sure if it was around when Naomi first turned off her comments because I could almost swear I read something like that when I was skimming her site then.)
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 26th, 2011 at 1:12 am
@Foolness,
I know you like feedback on your poor communication. I gave you a thumbs down because you sound like an anti-copyright, pro-Naomi, pro-IM, pro-Tim Brownson troll.
Anti-Copyright
When you said you “recycled her content” in your first paragraph and then mentioned Naomi trying other people’s products and offering them at a lower price, that gave me the impression you have no respect for copyright. I support fair use, but, as a writer, I loathe people who rip off other people’s content and sell it as their own.
Pro-Naomi
Eventually at the end you say the following were the reasons why you were “hooked in by Naomi’s blog,” and that you’re “absolutely apathetic” now. That comes after all these pro-Naomi statements, half of which are written in the present tense:
Naomi is what I self-dub as the “honest non-expert guru”.
[U]nlike other media blogs, Ittybiz revealed the module in their first sales page.
Naomi has a more honest feeling way of selling the bonuses.
[S]he never used scarcity.
[S]he really was the only one who did it this way.
Sonia . . . sounds more like a shill but Naomi [doesn't].
I consider her one of the most appealing cheap product/e-book IMers out there.
[H]er free initial newsletter/guide had to be one of the best written ones I’ve read.
Obviously I’ve selected bits that support my point, and other readers are welcome to slog through the whole thing and read them in context.
Pro-IM
You know what Ed Dale’s been up to “[r]ecently,” and you know enough about Sonia Simone to to compare and contrast her to Ittybiz. You’ve never said you’re against IMers, so I have to assume you know all this because you’re deep into the IM industry.
Pro-Tim Brownson
On the 21st, Ben suggested “stating your specific view about ‘life coaching.’” You never addressed that direct question directly. You sidestepped it. You linked to a forum comment that’s 75% Tim Brownson quote, 5% link to Tim Brownson’s website, and 20% “blah blah blarg.” The Tim Brownson page you quoted from and linked to is titled “Life Coaching Is A Scam,” a tactic the scammers use to try to head off search engine users who would otherwise arrive at sites like this one.
Troll
Back on the 20th, though, you responded to SD, “I’m simply a commentor.” Initially claiming to be neutral and sidestepping direct questions led, in part, to the Tim Brownson exposé. I don’t see enough going on over here or here to justify a Paul Keith exposé, but if SD has something on you, I’d enjoy seeing it at this point.
  +3
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 27th, 2011 at 8:35 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Lanna,
“When you said you “recycled her content” in your first paragraph and then mentioned Naomi trying other people’s products and offering them at a lower price, that gave me the impression you have no respect for copyright. I support fair use, but, as a writer, I loathe people who rip off other people’s content and sell it as their own.”
What??? Who’s selling anything?
The links were forum topics copy pasting her words.
I mean…just what??? I could understand if the post I’m replying to said, who plagiarized her content but…the word, recycle…what?! Jeez…
“Eventually at the end you say the following were the reasons why you were “hooked in by Naomi’s blog,” and that you’re “absolutely apathetic” now. That comes after all these pro-Naomi statements, half of which are written in the present tense:”
What pro-Naomi statements???
Jeez…
When I say this:
“Naomi is what I self-dub as the “honest non-expert guru”.
[U]nlike other media blogs, Ittybiz revealed the module in their first sales page.
Naomi has a more honest feeling way of selling the bonuses.
[S]he never used scarcity.
[S]he really was the only one who did it this way.
Sonia . . . sounds more like a shill but Naomi [doesn't].
I consider her one of the most appealing cheap product/e-book IMers out there.
[H]er free initial newsletter/guide had to be one of the best written ones I’ve read.”
It means…how she’s coming off. How she “hooked me”. My “impression” of her “at that time” to answer what Dr. Mario posted here:
“But seriously? Really? People actually read her blog … and listened to her spouting this idiocy … and actually recycle her “content”?
And give her moneyz???
And make major life decisions based on dubious “coaching” from this squishy shemale?”
“I’m pro-Naomi, I’m pro-Tim Brownson…”
What the fuck?!”
I sidestep this?!
“On the 21st, Ben suggested “stating your specific view about ‘life coaching.’”
What else can I do???
I not only posted links (past links that you can’t fake because of the timestamp) showing my views not only of what life coaching is from my view (something that I wasn’t asked for to provide but apparently my conversation with not_really didn’t prove anything and so I added those as a follow up)
but how does that even correlate to “pro” Tim?
I give up. Even if you say that was a Tim Brownson post (something I didn’t even know to be honest and I still don’t give a damn to check since I was just looking at the title and the contents of life coaching as scams), my forum post doesn’t even defend “an author”.
It just says “this needs to be some kind of golden rule”.
Not only that… the longer post that links to that topic was referring to “Think!”
Think! How would I defend Tim “at all” if the question wasn’t even relating to Tim but asking me what life coaching means to me? If I just wanted to say the words “Life coaching is a scam to me”, you really think I would go so far as get an old post just to say something I could have just wrote?!
The reason I didn’t just say a “sentence” because that’s fluff. Anyone can lie but you can’t lie with details. My comments, no matter how hard it is to understand, were supposed to show where I stand. That’s why I constantly provide what little examples I have so that my sincerity wouldn’t be doubted.
Apparently, in that conversation, it wasn’t enough and at first it did piss me off that after all those efforts of including what little details I have… my post still failed to communicate (which is just the story of my life which I just have to get used to ) but to be accused of being a troll on top of that and then be asked constantly of obvious questions whose answers won’t verify anything and then be tasked to constantly define the difference of obvious (to me) english words such as “apathetic not meaning pro” or “recycle not meaning plagiarize”, I was really pissed at the whole thing. Mostly at myself and because at the time I was replying to Ben, I got snarky and said, “just read my past comments” because I felt those posts were better proofs then any answer I could have said then.
If you have some substance with your evidence I would understand. But just think for Christ sakes.
I’m a poor communicator. You really think the poor communicator can not only a scammer…but apparently he’s tasked here to come and defend scammers? Really???
Not only that but this scammer would then say “I would just go back to lurking” Really??? This is how I’m supposed to secretly lure and convince the Anti-Naomis?
Not only that, I didn’t say “I’m simply a commentor, the end.” to SD.
Hoo boy. I mean I don’t want to be hard or rude to anyone. God knows my lack of communication and getting pissed off will just distract people further from what’s really important and it is to discover the scams and how scammers work, but your post…god… it just…nevermind….reply to this or don’t reply to this… think I’m trolling or I’m not trolling…it doesn’t really matter anymore. I already said I was just going back to lurking and I just want to show how lacking the evidences are against me. I don’t know if they changed their minds but even SD and Ben seem to believe me. Not that, that is worth anything at this point.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 27th, 2011 at 8:48 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Foolness,
Oh right forgot to address this:
“Pro-IM
You know what Ed Dale’s been up to “[r]ecently,” and you know enough about Sonia Simone to to compare and contrast her to Ittybiz. You’ve never said you’re against IMers, so I have to assume you know all this because you’re deep into the IM industry.”
You know how you can get these details at a snap of a finger?
Register to their “free” newsletter. Sure, it’s not really free but they allow you to type your e-mail in those boxes and get spammed.
It’s not really an industry syndicated. Anyone can do it.
+
Ok, I’m against IMers. You won’t know if that’s true but whoopee!!! I said I’m against IMers. YAY!!!
…Not only is the above so easy to say but imagine this, what if anyone ever tries to sell anything? …and then they market their products “via” the internet? If you find their site, does that mean they are anti-spam?
That’s such horse shit. You were better off just telling SD to investigate and dig up something against me but you didn’t. You called me a troll before any investigation. You called me pro-IM because “I didn’t ever say I was against IM even though I visit this site and I never wrote a post defending IMers”.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 27th, 2011 at 8:56 am
Typo: It’s not really an industry secret. Anyone can do it.
(Yeah, you can add this to evidence against me. I typoed and wrote syndicate instead of secret…must be my subconscious showing my true alignment…Yay! I’m now a troll…I’m now a troll…You’re right… you’re right… you’re very right)
[Sorry for the sarcasm. I’m just really trying very hard not to add so many fucks to my reply and I can’t hide it, Lanna’s post really pissed me off but I just want to clarify that I hold no ill feelings towards her personally. It’s just the flimsy evidences…the way it’s like a well known person here hiding behind the fact that I’m not part of a comment circle and they know no one will likely come to my defense…and just the way she went from SD investigate this person to just flatly throwing out blatant accusations in such a way that people within her circle may as well not wait for an investigation and just throw me downvotes. Sorry, just sorry… now I’m whining. I just really am having a hard time containing my emotions right now.)
  -3
# 24 September 2011 at 3:45 am

Allyn said:
Naomi talks like someone talking to herself and enjoying it. Her voice inflection indicates that she is just talking to hear her own voice.
It’s hard to explain it, but we’ve all known people like her in the real world. In real world companies, they are usually the ones who are promoted to high positions (like VP), but no one can really understand why. They just “talk a game” in circles and sound good in delivery, but in reality, they just like to hear themselves talk. And they never have anything original or innovative to say. It’s just rehash.
They talk to hear themselves, and build themselves up.
It’s a red flag for sure, but I can see how someone down on their luck in desperation could hear that drivel and take it as a form of leadership.
sad sad
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 9:31 am
@Allyn,
Naomi is narcissistic. Who knows, she may even have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Us humans tend towards hierarchical command structures. When that happens, we need for the managers, “higher-ups” and leaders to appear confident. Since we’re not well-equipped to verify every statement that comes out of someone’s mouth on a moment-to-moment basis, we have to rely on the person’s appearance of confidence (along with many other factors including known track record of honesty (or not)) in determining whether or not they’re worthy to remain in their leadership role.
Like all systems, this one has flaws. One tragic flaw of a system based on trust and confidence is that it allows totally unhelpful narcissists in positions of power. Narcissists always appear confident because they really are confident (even when they shouldn’t be). They–for a while at least–appear to be really cool and awesome and totally together and faultless-blameless because they are so very hyper-focused on maintaining their image at all costs.
At this point, someone reading this may point out that Naomi has said many things about herself that seem pretty negative.
But I would counter that she always somehow managed to do it in such a way so as to make it seem positive instead, and that if you were already a “follower”/convert to Naomi you wouldn’t be put off by it.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +2
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 9:40 am
@Wyrd,
“Like all systems, this one has flaws. One tragic flaw of a system based on trust and confidence is that it allows totally unhelpful narcissists in positions of power. Narcissists always appear confident because they really are confident (even when they shouldn’t be). They–for a while at least–appear to be really cool and awesome and totally together and faultless-blameless because they are so very hyper-focused on maintaining their image at all costs.”
Boy, doesn’t that describe James Arthur Ray to a T!
  +1
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 24th, 2011 at 11:45 am
@Bonnie,
Yeah. @SD has referred to all these characters as narcissists for quite a while now, and he’s right.
It’s the perfect personality type to commit this sort of massive fraud and destruction of peoples’ lives and not feel guilty about it.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +1
[Reply]
# 24 September 2011 at 6:50 am

Ryan said:
I don’t wanna get too “woo-woo” on her, but Naomi Dunford is kinda bullshit.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 24 September 2011 at 10:25 am

Barbara said:
On April 2 2008 Naomi takes other Im’ers to the woodshed for disciplinary measures:
Their crimes? Attempting to be funny, they had the audacity to post April Fool’s Day blogs. Naomi was in an extreme snit. “How DARE they? I’M the funny one!” Who are the guilty parties? Deb Ng, Darren Rowse and Tim Ferriss. Naomi speaks (angily):
“Why didn’t it work? Why did people not get the joke? Why are people threatening to unsubscribe left and right? Three reasons.”
“1. These people are not known for being funny. Not these three.”
“The readers of these blogs were not expecting a joke, and April Fools’ jokes are traditionally known for being practical jokes. Practical jokes are often not funny. They’re something one person does to make someone else look or feel stupid. They are an expression of superiority, of one-up-man-ship, of derision. And when you’re not the type of person who does this thing normally, people feel like they got screwed over.”
“Tim, Deb, and Darren are known for offering fairly serious advice, and people felt betrayed. They are trusted resources, and it didn’t cross many people’s minds that their trusted resources were kidding.”
“2. A lot of people don’t like April Fools’ Day.”
“3. A lot of people aren’t North American/British/Australian.”
“Many international readers just weren’t prepared for April Fools’ Day. Thus even when people said, “HA HA! Don’t freak out, it was April Fools’!” they still didn’t get it. They were in many cases offended and pissed off and I don’t particularly blame them.”
***************************************************************************
Naomi Dunford accuse other people of being not funny?! Her level of humor is stuck in the bathroom jokes, body part names type of humor found in nursery schools.
And after she speaks with great authority on April Fool’s customs being confined to Americans, Brits and Aussies several comments corrected her superior knowledge. A man from Finland and another from Macedonia pointed out that they do in fact have April Fool’s day in their countries.
As for people feeling like they got screwed over by a joke…how about that woman Naomi screwed over on the coaching session to the tune of $600?
She was angry and it was no joke.
Naomi rides her high horse yet again, she stole her schtick from Frank Kern, (according to what people here have told me), and now she guards it jealously from other would-be funny men and women of the scammer’s world.
Good luck with that!
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 24 September 2011 at 10:28 am

Barbara said:
Sometimes Naomi can see that brevity is the soul of wit, for instance when she uttered the following words:
“Morals in marketing”
“Honey, there are no morals in marketing.”
There, in a nutshell, is the problem with Naomi and all who subscribe to her worldview. As SD stated so clearly there are real lives that are being destroyed by these people. And despite her denial of morals existing in marketing we know they do, and that Naomi and others are making moral choices everyday. The problem is they choose poorly. They choose to bilk people of their money with pie-in-the-sky schemes. They choose dishonesty and trickery over honest labor. And I’m so tired of hearing “so-and-so is just a little player. go after the big fish.” Anyone who plays this despicable game at all, at any level of participation, shares in the guilt. If you forward Naomi’s bullshit and lies, you are part of it. If you support Naomi’s bogus call to arms over death threats that never happened, you are part of it. If you recommend Naomi’s frauducts, her ebooks, her “coaching”, you are part of it.
No excuses anymore that somebody is “only” tangentially related to Naomi, that’s bullshit. You cannot be a “nice person” and pimp Naomi’s line of deceit. As Kesey said “You’re either on the bus or off the bus.”
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@Barbara,
In addition, little fish grow into big fish. Especially if some robot has gotten all current the big fish, leaving the pond wide open.
Though I guess we’re really talking about some bizarre species of free swimming leech here, really.
  +6
[Reply]
# 25 September 2011 at 10:37 am

hrmmm said:
I find the ND discussion a little boring, at least in comments. Sorry dudes. I appreciate humor and audio clips, but talking about how awesome you are because you weren’t a stupid dupe to her scam is kind of low hanging fruit.
I bought her shit and I talked about it openly here already, so I’m not sure what Foolness is on about people not coming forward due to shame. I wouldn’t say I’m ashamed, but yeah I’m less trusting and feel like I made a mistake giving my money to someone who turned out to be gross, manipulative, unethical, and not all that great at business, at it turns out. But I don’t think I’m a stupid stupid-pants who is stupid, just vulnerable and too lax about due diligence. Mistakes I will try to remedy in the future.
I guess I’m more into the philosophical/psychological stuff about mind raping, ethics, logical fallacies and whatnot. There were some book recommendations I wrote down in the last thread, so thanks for that.
  +5
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
@hrmmm,
Hey, I certainly have never for one moment thought you to be stupid, or anyone else here who has spoken about their personal experiences with these people. I’ve viewed it more as a “there but for the grace of God go I” cautionary tale. It doesn’t imply you’re less thoughtful, none of us has gone through life without falling prey to a devious person or organization at some point.
The first person accounts of involvement with IM’ers have been some of the most valuable and interesting reading at this site. We’re all vulnerable. None of us are immune to this crap…so no one should be feeling awesome. (Except the Droid himself, because he is.)
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@hrmmm, Your thoughts in the last few posts have been among the most interesting and useful here. I can understand if you feel you have no more to say on ND, but I hope you’ll continue to contribute here. The only people who benefit from the myth that only stupid or incautious people get scammed and that scams are easy to spot are the scammers themselves. The more people we have here refuting that lie and offering the benefit of their own experience, the more likely that other victims will recognize themselves in another’s story and be able to admit to themselves that they’ve been deceived.
  +1
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@hrmmm,
“I bought her shit and I talked about it openly here already, so I’m not sure what Foolness is on about people not coming forward due to shame.”
*sigh* Why does unlikely have to be interpreted as no one will say anything?
My words: but since it’s [unlikely] people who bought her products would justify why they did it out of shame, hopefully I can shed some light on this since I’m actually one of the people who have recycled her content (though I haven’t bought them)
I don’t have anything against your post but I’m really sad I couldn’t speak much clearer in this blog. This is like the third or so time I have to explain myself for something I feel was clear as day here. Thank you at least for making it clear where I confused you.
LOSER!! ::   -9
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
@Foolness,
Dude, I don’t mean to be rude, but I skimmed your earlier post that @hrmmm was referring to and it really is pretty hard to understand just exactly what you are talking about. I mean the general gist is clear, but when I try to read certain specific sentences, my eyes go all cross-eyed funny.
I hadn’t heard of “poly-phasic” sleep before. I skimmed the Wikipedia article on it. It came to me that I have heard the general phrase “he lives on just two hours sleep” many times before.
It seems like a neat idea. If it actually works properly. And it strikes me that perhaps you’re trying it out for yourself, eh? Try this: get the traditional 6-8 hrs sleep for a couple days, then come back to this site and re-read your posts. Seriously–they are hard to understand.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +4
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 27th, 2011 at 7:38 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Wyrd,
Actually I constantly reread my posts whenever someone says they don’t understand it. Both with voice and silent reading.
I don’t really get what’s hard to understand. It’s in the first sentence already and you did say you understood the general gist.
My words:
“For a more intellectual example, think how many dumb and desperate people are trying to be polyphasic sleepers?”
The general gist of the joke is that there are dumb people following life coaches.
As the sentence said, “for a more intellectual example”.
This does not mean I’m trying polyphasic sleep. This is, as it says, referring to how scammers could also target more intellectual subjects that only people who are looking for something intelligent would do so.
In this case, the example was to show how despite people in Wikipedia being very “source” demanding, if you write enough blog topics for a subject that is “trending” (at the time), you can still game your way into Wikipedia and that was what happened back then. Steve Pavlina was the only one who had written blog posts extensively on polyphasic sleep. By doing so, even if it’s anecdotal, Pavlina managed to get himself into Wikipedia despite the lack of notability because people wanting to write for polyphasic sleep were almost using his anecdotal blogs as sources for quite a long long time.
It’s the same with life coaches. It’s not really a consultant for dumb people business. It’s simply one facet of a consulting business but one based on the expertise being on something that because of it’s definition (life) can only apply to everything but it doesn’t need any professional expertise.
…and what I said right here, all of these: This is just a rephrasing of the general gist. So imagine how difficult it is for me. No matter how much I sleep over it, you’re telling me the general gist is clear but then you’re raising counterpoints that doesn’t convince me that you indeed felt the general gist was clear. I mean… I could do a text search right now and I would not see the word trying to learn polyphasic sleep in my post. Nor rereading would make me think I am telling a person that I’m going to try polyphasic sleep. It just boggles my mind, see? If I wanted to talk specifically about trying polyphasic sleep, why would I comment on it on a joke post, especially when the gist as you said is supposedly clear?
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

Foolness Reply:
September 27th, 2011 at 7:43 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Foolness,
Typo: It’s not really a consultant for dumb people.
(I was trying to link it towards how I read some life coaches deal with businesses but felt the topic would just extend the post for no reason and missed this)
Typo #2: can (not) only apply to everything but it doesn’t need any professional expertise.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 25th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
@hrmmm,
I hope you continue to contribute here, too. You sound like a smart, educated, fearless entrepreneur. As a legit business owner who didn’t buy into the Internet Marketing dream but did buy the products, yours is a unique and important voice.
Once scammers are outed, it’s easy to dredge up the morally bankrupt blog posts and JVs with other scammers, post hoc evidence supporting the scammer hypothesis. When one has no reason to distrust them, though, it’s easy to overlook those clues and allow oneself to be misdirected by the legit-looking window dressing, as the scammers intend.
When we have isolated all the scammer evidence in once place – and excluded the window dressing – then we can laugh at how awful it all looks. It’s like laughing at the 1950s Duck and Cover films in a post-Chernobyl world. How stupid it seems now! We’re certainly not laughing at the victims. We’re laughing at the ignorance, tendency to trust and desire to believe all humans have. But the undoable damage has already been done.
  +3
[Reply]
# 25 September 2011 at 12:37 pm

Haters be Hating said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I think you should investigate this guy SD, an obvious scam and fraudster.
He started out with a Stanford law degree but he never practised
Then he went on to be a copywriter and started writing for niche sites
One of the guest how-to articles on his site was being sold for $5(!) and was proven to be a complete pack of lies
He decided to try and make it right with his own how-to but people complained it was too hard for them to do and wanted him to do it for them (sure sounds familiar!?)
Then he started carrying on about going anywhere and following your dreams.
here’s one of his direct quotes –
“Don’t stop. Keep right on going. Hitch up your trailer and go to Canada or down to Old Mexico. Head for Europe, if you can afford it, or go to the Mardi Gras. Go someplace you’ve heard about, where you can fish or hunt or collect rocks or just look up at the sky. Find out what’s at the end of some country road. Go see what’s over the next hill, and the one after that, and the one after that.” yeah talk about UNICORNS!
He kept travelling around the world here and there telling people they could do WHAT THEY WANTED (when every sane person knows that 30 years in a job is the ONLY WAY TO LIVE)
Then he started doing the things that only scammers do like fundraising and charity can drives and shit.
So the name of this guy?
Wally Byam 1896-1962 Sure he’s dead,and a great American, and helped build wealth for the country – but his message is the same as what is being sold today by the filthy scammers you have been exposing. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander… which includes you dickhead.
LOSER!! ::   -12
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
September 26th, 2011 at 12:44 am
@Haters be Hating,
I can’t be troubled to do real research on Wallace Merle “Wally” Byam, but Wikipedia says he founded Airstream Inc., manufacturers of Airstream trailers. Airstream trailers, unlike the info frauducts covered here, are two tons of actual product. No comparison. Try again. (Or don’t.)
  +4
[Reply]

J. Edgar Reply:
September 26th, 2011 at 1:14 am
@Haters be Hating: So instead of trying to come up with even a flimsy “logic based” argument to support your belief in crime, you just lifted some unrelated quotation from the last century and twisted it around? Maybe you should have run that by your probation officer and gotten a second opinion.
Surely at least one of the voices in your head told you not to hit the “submit” button. That’s the one you should be listening to.
  +6
[Reply]
# 26 September 2011 at 12:12 am

SpideySenses said:
Per Naomi,
“It’s really surprisingly cheap to feed mouths.”
Um, yeah, because she walked out on her kids.
  +3
[Reply]
# 26 September 2011 at 6:00 am

Frank said:
Did Frank get a nose job? Look at that picture.
  +1
[Reply]
# 26 September 2011 at 1:31 pm

JustinTime said:
Just to move the conversation along here. I signed up for one of Naomi Dumbfraud’s auto-responder’s a while back. In my naive days. Here’s a choice bit of crap:
“Because that’s what all this competition scoping is all about, you see. It’s not just so you can admire your competition and think you’re never going to be that good. You’re totally going to be thatgood. Because you’re going to steal all their best ideas.”
For seriously?! Steal their best ideas… that’s the advice. Are you friggen crazy and stupid. Oh. Right. YOU ARE.
The saddest part is that people are LISTENING to this mouth-dumpage from Naomi’s lie-hole. Listening and acting. How many people are outright STEALING other people work and turning it around for “fun&profit”.
Looking forward to the day Ittybiz. com gives me a 404 error.
-JT
  +4
[Reply]
# 26 September 2011 at 9:00 pm

SD (author) said:
I need to hear Dave’s interview with Dumbford from this frauduct …
http://www.morebuyersmastermind.com/launch/
… if you gots it please send it to me.
[Reply]

Susie Reply:
September 28th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
@SD,
I wish I had it to give. I do look forward to hearing that one.
I personally love that, on the sales page, he tells his readers that he is *really* doing these interviews for himself with the goal of having a more ‘down to earth’ 2011. Wonder how that’s working out for him.
I look forward to hearing more about the entire ‘third tribe’ thing. Between my very brief dealings with some people from it and your posts on Naomi and Dave, I can only imagine what will be reported.
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 5th, 2011 at 12:14 am
@SD ::
Got this by the way … thanks.
[Reply]
# 28 September 2011 at 2:14 pm

formerly naomified said:
Heads up! Just got an email (pasted below in total) from IttyBiz. They’re going to start selling Online Business School again. But look at the address at the bottom of the signature line … North Carolina. Hmmmm……
Enjoy!
The email:
Good morning! (Good afternoon? Good day? I have no idea anymore.)
I just wanted to send you a little note to let you know that today, Online Business School for Coaches is back on the metaphorical shelves at its original pre-launch price. We’ve had a lot of requests to bring it back because it seems like last time we offered it, much of the world was either a.) on vacation, or b.) recently returned from vacation (also known as broke.)
It’s on now for $197 (half off!) and it’s going into the new store for $397, so if you’re in the vacation/broke/too broke to vacation camp, get your lovely little tushie over here now and take a peek.
http://ittybiz.com/obs-for-coaches-is-here/
(If you have no idea what I’m talking about or you’re new around these parts, Online Business School for Coaches is a training program that came out in the summer for coaches and hippie types, teaching how to sell your coaching, classes, and products without trying too hard or becoming a total sellout. Twenty percent of the course is actually available on the page as a sample if you want to give it a try before you buy.)
If you want to keep your launch price of half! off! holy! cow!, click this pretty little link right here, or if it’s not a link for you, you can copy the url into any spare browser window you have lying around:
http://ittybiz.com/obs-for-coaches-is-here/
Talk soon!
xx
Naomi
IttyBiz | 4441 Six Forks Road, Ste. 106-343 | Raleigh, NC 27609 | USA
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 3 October 2011 at 9:38 am

_cartman_ said:
@formerly naomified,
But look at the address at the bottom of the signature line … North Carolina. Hmmmm……
That is a UPS “empire” address…the company is a registered LLC in North Carolina…
Legal NC Corporate Name ITTYBIZ, LLC
SOSID: 1117048
Status: Current-Active
Effective Date: 9/25/2009
Dissolution Date:
Annual Report Due Date:
Citizenship: DOMESTIC
State of Inc.: NC
Duration: PERPETUAL
[[I didn't post the address on file....as it is a home...and I don't know who it belongs to]]
It could just be that she is trying to do the foolies to Revenue Canada…or she would have to have someone with a US bank account to validate a US PayPal account…
“one day when I have an empire, I is going to get me a UPS box…and grate ritches will come to me effortlessly”…
[[what Andros?...I didn't do my affirmation right?..I have to make it so the universal thinks it already happened?...ohhh tricky...Andros knows...she's not just a petty face you know]]
“one day when I have an empire…it already happened…I is going to get me a UPS box…it already happened….and grate ritches will come to me effortlessly…it already happened!!
[[suck on that universal...you are powerless to my affirmations...powerless I tell you...checks and parking spaces are mine...]]
PS – ohh yeah…so my wife comes home the other day [[no she didn't die in a fiery wreck after the Janet Jackson Nipple incident]]…
and she’s like…”why is that stupid flat panel TV sitting there”…
and I’m like…”babe…it’s like 60″ and it’s better then the black and white CRT we had there”….
and she’s like “but it’s a plastic prop…it doesn’t work…and why did you paste all those pictures to it”….
and I’m like “what….it works…if you use your imagination….and it’s a picture in picture model…
and she’s like….”WHAT?”
and I’m like….”I’m manifestering us a real LCD TV…and guess what….and all those pictures….I got us all them fancy cable channels…so you can pretend to watch anything you want now”….
and she’s like….”ohh my gawd”
and I’m like….”I know…pretty impressive….and go take a look at the new stove I’m manifestering”….
[[it must have been overwhelming...cuz she left...don't worry....she'll be back...those were tears of JOY!!...I think I am going to pull out the plastic filet mignon...and "cook" it up on the new stove...these are magicKal times!!]]
  +5
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@_cartman_,
I was just perusing the same info.
Yeah, it’s a UPS mailbox. They offer mail forwarding, so she could operate out of Pretoria and still use that Raleigh address.
But dude – DUDE! – the LLC was registered by our favorite Lunch Coach in the year of the Spider Shit Storm chat AND renewed in April 2010 and April 2011. Is that just a little ongoing international conspiracy to commit tax evasion among friends, or did the “deal that didn’t go through” go through?
  +3
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@Lanna,
Not sure about amending a corporate name in the USA, but it is cheaper to keep filing “nil” returns [[here in Cambodia...except for Federal Corporations]] and keeping the corporation active and later file to amend the name, rather then starting from scratch.
So whether or not it is some sort of convoluted ongoing attempt at tax fraud [[or what I mention above]], would be impossible to determine without seeing what financials were filed, but I seriously doubt either have the sophistication to perpetrate such a fraud [[successfully]], especially without a paper trail [[to "prove" what is being claimed]]…CanRev is stupid…but not that stupid… It’s ridiculous [[beyond ludicrous]] for either of them to believe one can use a US corporation [[created after the fact]] as a tax “deference”/”avoidance” vehicle for a Canadian citizen [[or even a Canadian corporation]], for income “earned” earlier.
The thing I am confused about is that Navarro claimed he finally had an LLC…spider fluffy congratulated him….but then spider fluffy offered him ittybiz….so I can only conclude that he registered that corporation [[ittybiz LLC]] afterward, and he has another LLC where he is not registered agent [[not sure...since you can only search NC's database by registered agent, not by officers]]…or the other LLC is registered in another state…
  +2
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
October 3rd, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@_cartman_, A little digging shows Navarro has an LLC called “Workshopify” and some of his Google cache pages mention “Navarro Media Group.”. I assume Workshopify is the LLC he talks about in SD’s transcript.
  +4
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
October 3rd, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@Anonymous,
good work…yes…that is his registered LLC also [[he used a "service" to act as registered agent]], that must be the LLC he mentions…
  +2
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
October 3rd, 2011 at 5:47 pm
@_cartman_,
The laws vary from state to state, but that website’s PDF guide says it costs $125 to file Articles of Organization and $200 to file each required Annual Report. (Both Ittybiz LLC AR PDFs also show $200.)
Failure to file the AR results in administrative dissolution, which prevents anyone else from using the name for five years, and it only costs $100 to file an Application for Reinstatement following Administrative Dissolution.
Any way you slice it, in North Carolina, it costs more to keep the corporation active than to start from scratch or reboot.
  +1
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
October 4th, 2011 at 12:36 am
@Lanna,
Yeah…the filing fees for annual returns in NC are quite high [[relatively speaking]]…and you are right, it is definitely cheaper to just start over…[[shrug]]…who knows…Maybe he is holding on to hope that spider fluffy will hand over control of the website one day, and is keeping the LLC current. Maybe he doesn’t know any better, or maybe it is being used for some nefarious purpose…unless someone has more information they want to share, we may never know.
  +2
[Reply]

formerly naomified Reply:
October 4th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@_cartman_, I guess my point is that the address has changed from Canada to NC with this email. To the best of my recollection, all past emails have had her Canada address on the bottom. So the NC thing is new.
Also, having read quite a bit of her writing, I don’t think Naomi wrote that email. It feels a lot like someone trying to imitate her edge … and failing miserably.
Finally, when she originally closed her store, it was a forever and ever event. Reopening it like this is interesting … I also find it fascinating that her former iron clad guarantee of money back is totally gone.
Things have changed and there is a hint of desperation for cash in this.
That’s all.
  +4

SD Reply:
October 5th, 2011 at 12:11 am
So yeah … he did register an IttyBiz LLC after the chat … but then something happened and the deal didn’t go through.
But I’m not really sure what that means because she says in the chat that in Canada the company doesn’t exist anyway … everything is under the table. So what was there to transfer to IttyBiz North Carolina?
I also agree that Naomi prolly didn’t write that email.
Strange stuff.
# 3 October 2011 at 11:23 am

formerly naomified said:
@SD, re: what to transfer from Canada to NC … laundered assets? :)
The thing I find most interesting right now is that all of the folks who claim to be BFFs of either/both of them IRL are now entirely silent on the situation. Mum’s the word.
Maybe the truth has outed and they don’t like what the sunshine revealed?
  +2
[Reply]
# 5 October 2011 at 9:08 am

Barbara said:
Naomi Dunford wrote on December 28th 2010:
“I’m also told by my beta viewers that my riding pants are really hot! Oh, yes. I went there.”
Naomi thinks she looks “really hot!” in the pants she’s wearing in the above photo. I asked an unbiased observer to look at the photo, he then muttered something about ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag.
But as long as Naomi thinks she’s a sex goddess that’s all that counts. I think it says exactly that somewhere in “The Secret”.
  +3
[Reply]
# 24 October 2011 at 5:51 pm
» Spider ShitStorm Redux said:
[...] up my Naomi Dunford file and pull out something turdish. See it’s good to fill a file full of turdish stuff before you open your robot mouth :: just in case some psycho starts accusing you of murderous [...]
  0
# 16 February 2012 at 5:37 am
» Oh the Spider Book Club said:
[...] and Brain Clark weren’t just fantasies. Naomi had harped on him to do it for months :: in public and in private … so the least she could do was pretend to congratulate him while [...]
  0
# 22 May 2012 at 5:03 am

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