Of Gnomes and Robots

Mike Filsaime likes funny hats

Gnomes are known to be grumps :: but as the male gnome balds and approaches menopause like village idiot Mike Filsaime is now :: things can get out of control right quick.

Wait … that was hateful of me! It’s not right for me to dehumanize predators in order to shine a light on their wickedness and empower their victims. I told myself I was going to be a better me! Argh! I apologize to everyone :: especially Jesus. I know how frustrated Jesus gets with people “going too far” defending the poor and vulnerable and such. Let’s try this again …

Sometimes when Gnomes are in PMS they piss themselves.  People say that’s why Mike Filsaime smells so bad. Personally :: I think it’s got to be more than just piss … maybe he has a ruptured gallbladder or something? I asked my doctor friend about it … but she said she didn’t really know anything about Gnomes.

Fuck! That was also mean. Oh well :: I tried.

The day before the Syndicate Shit Storm :: Vicious Garden Gnome Mike Filsaime had a d-bag epiphany

“I simply want to be no part of hyped up products. Until now it was hard to tell someone “No” after they supported you well and asked you to reciprocate weeks or months early. This blog post explains what is simply off limits. This is some stuff that came to my mind late at night. There could, of course, be other things that are not in the customers best interest. Common sense can figure that out.”

Here are some of the things that will get b-teamers nonreciprocated according to the Gnomes late night mind …

  • hidden methods
  • “out right lies” [sick.]
  • poor customer support
  • non-complete products
  • not honoring refunds
  • upsells

… common sense can figure out that those are some of the most favoritest tactics of the Gnome his self.  But don’t do them from now on if you want to be supported with various reciprocates.

This hugely epic :: mind bending :: hypocrisy was bound to get people talking :: and suppressing their vomit. But then he went and mentioned me …

“There are a lot of hate blogs out there and it is seemingly getting hard to know the good from the bad. Time to separate from the trash. Get your act together or get out of this arena. There is just no room for it.

Speaking of “Hate Blogs” – I will be releasing a personal response about the “Jones’s” real soon. Time to set the record straight ;)”

The Gnome seems surprised when so many non-sheeple start showing up … maybe he doesn’t understand that the policy was to never mention the robot … and now someone has mentioned the robot.  Well sort of :: he still can’t quite bring his Gnome fingers to type “SaltyDroid” … “Jones’s” will have to do for now … baby steps.

So he’s a fucking hypocrite in the post … he mentions me … then people call him on being a hypocrite … and he blames me.  Common sense can figure that out … cause I can’t.

“Jason Jones is a sad human being and I pitty him. And you for following him. I will deal with him soon. Jason Jones will finally hear from me. Now go run to his hate blog and warn him about me. I will expose him for the low life he his. Go now minion, go run to your powerful OZ. Jason Jones, you reading this. Get your costume on and make your post. It’s my turn. A sad human being will now be seen for what he is.”

Cool.  Well that sounds totally normal.

Couple hours later he’d had more than his fragile little mind could handle … and he posted this as an update at the top of the post …

“Minions of Jason Jones. I have spent the better part of the day talking to the 5% of you that are coming from his blog to try to spin this and trash me as you stated you would on his blog. We had good comments coming from people. All of a sudden a minion posted my blog on his blog and you are all coming here now to trash talk the same things you are saying there. As I said, this week I will address Jason and his hate confused followers. I let about 10 of you say what you want so I can prove your facts are wrong. With that said, I am letting you know you are wasting your time from here forward. Take it to his site. Hate and trash is welcome and thrives there. This is about discussion to make things better. Waste your time and post and I will nuke the comment.”

I’m no PR expert like Mark Fabiani or anything :: but I’m pretty sure that was dumb and dumber.

So The Gnome has a plan … and he seems real proud of himself.

And then The Droid said :: “let there be a shit storm” :: and behold there was a shit storm

… oh snap! What terrible timing for the Vicious Garden Gnome.

All mention of Jason Jones and his imaginary minions deleted. Jason Jones is not necessarily happy about this because Jason Jones thinks it’s funny when The Gnome does stupid shit. The Syndicate has a “file” about Jason Jones and some of Jason Jones’ friends and family … some of the things they think they know about Jason Jones are hilariously stupid … and Jason Jones was trying to play the situation soft so that The Gnome would pull out his plastic gun and fire more piss on himself.  Oh wells …

But wait … what’s this? Internet lawyer Mike Young interviews The Gnome!

“Mike Young … wtf?” :: says a lot of you.  “No comment … for now” :: says me. I will say this {but it doesn’t count as comment cause I make my own rules} … if Mike Young was going to pull his retro-mini-pistols on me … why would he wait until it looked like I was just about to morph into Voltron and start smushing evil doers in single swift stomps? And my diabolical comment got posted … and stayed up … yours too right? Anywayz …

The interview is revealing.  Many peeps think it’s Mike Young making excuses for The Syndicate.  I’m not so sure … it says “interview” … I think the eight numbered points are Mike Gnome’s points not Mike Young’s. Those points could be rewritten like this …

1. He’s in several overlapping “mastermind” groups.

2. The Syndicate exists :: they are in daily communication via email.  Koenigs and Brunson are not in The Syndicate.

3. He’s planing on making some changes … see hypocrite post.

4. There is a Syndicate calendar.

5. They promote each other’s products … but not 100% of the time.

6. Affiliates are placed in different tiers and then paid and treated differently.

7.  “Getting consulting from a peer about how to create an offer is not price fixing it is simply advice on what to sell and what to sell it for.”

Just what to sell … and what to sell it for … that’s all.  No big whoop.

8.  JustLikeMyChild isn’t a money laundering operation for The Syndicate … but the Gnome could only spare $500 for them anywayz.

Okay … pretty much knew all of that already … but the confession definitely helps.

The P.S. is written by The Gnome without lawyerly editing … and it’s pretty much all Jason Jones all the time.

I am writing this today about a blogger, Jason Michael Jones. He goes by the name “Salty Droid.”

My middle name huh guy? It was cute and funny when I did it … you know … because I am Jason Michael Jones and everything. A tinge more toward the creepy weirdo side of things when you do it.

Jason Jones is obviously very smart, witty, very funny, and has one of the best writing styles you may find around.

Thanks a lot Gnome :: that really means the world to me coming from you.

But he and I differ in many ways.

Yes … many ways. Many many ways. He would count the ways … but him not being able to count is one of the ways.

“He wants to save the world from predators’, that is good. He just choose to do it in a mean and vicious way. He refers to me as vicious.”

Not true! I refer to you as “Vicious Garden Gnome” :: totally different.  If I just called you “vicious” … no one would read me.

Jason Jones seeks to embarrass people, and has done a good job, by getting his hands on private property. Contrary to popular belief, this is not given to him by insiders as his readers suggest in comments (that he will not correct.) The truth is he steals it off servers. Marketers make mistakes with a loophole you could call it in cloud computing like s3 Amazon by not securing the ACL settings.

The Gnome doesn’t know how I got the tapes … but I guess he’s comfortable stating that I “stole” them.  I won’t say exactly how I got them :: however I can confirm that both the Jenkins/Walker tapes … and the Koenigs/Robbins tapes :: eventually ended up on my hard drive because they were put out onto the web for all the world to see by “Internet gurus” who seem to understand the Internet about as well as your average Florida grandmother. Anyone could have sent them to me :: because anyone could have seen them. I didn’t mention it because I like to give d-bags the opportunity to lie to each other … they’re fun like that.

“Jason Jones has nothing to lose. If you fall, he will write about you as if he takes credit and warned the world of you. He did it with James Arthur Ray, he did it with Bernie Madoff.”

First :: what?

Second :: Bernie Madoff? Is it possible that The Gnome is so stupid he doesn’t understand why Madoff made his cameo in the movie?

Third :: what?

But his accusations are really nothing more than conspiracy theory. Quite Comical at times. More often very hurtful. I am not going to lie to you. I try not to read it because I am human and the hateful words he says hurts me. It hurts my family, and it hurts my staff. But that is the price you pay when you are a leader in any industry. Think about that.

Oh my gosh Gnomey Gnome … I’m so fucking sorry! I didn’t know I was hurting your tiny little pygmy feelings. Sheesh … you should have said something sooner.  No more saying things like :: “I hope your rapidly diminishing virility outlasts your prison stint and you have opportunity to pay for ass yet again.”  No more of that.  Breath free little Gnome … I think you’re pretty … promise.

“To Jason Jones, I am not looking to embarrass you or do an expose on you.”

Great. That’s a relief. Hate to end up on the front page of Illiteracy Digest.

“To his readers, I ask that you investigate things for yourself.”

Yes :: I ask that you do that also.  And once your done investigating … send it on over to me and I’ll make it hilarious.  We’re a good team like that aren’t we minions?

“But think twice about what it says about you to be cursing, and supporting a hate site. Read the Jason Jones’ blog with a fresh perspective. Is this something you would want your kids to support and admire.”

Thanks Mary Poppins.  Note to parents :: don’t let your kids read this site … that’s terrible parenting.

OMG this fucking rant is about me … and even I’m bored by it! “He’s just a hater” :: don’t need 2000 words barely constituting sentences to say that shit. Same lame line they’ve been feeding the sheeple behind closed stable doors all these long months.  It’s not working.

To our outstanding success and forever joy happy time,

>> bleep {jason michael jones} bloop

PS The Gnome is short.

158 thoughts on “Of Gnomes and Robots”

  1. Mike The Gnome Filsaime would have been better off just keeping his mouth shut. He sounded like a complete fucking retard with every broken sentence he wrote.

    Here’s hoping the other Gnomes in the garden tire of his shit and anally penetrate him with a carrot.

  2. Wasn’t the “launch tree” all about creating sequences of upsells/sidesells/downsells/crosssells/etc.? If something is not a best practice & considered in poor taste, then why would one create a whole info-product around it?

    1. @aaron wall,

      well…because it used to be “good practice” until everyone started catching on to the fact that the only thing that these idiots are trying to help you with is making you a little lighter by stealing your money with deception.

      Now that there is another platform other than forums whose moderators are too chicken shit to let the people call a scammer a scammer, I would imagine that many of these idiots will be changing their tune.

      1. @ThisIsGettingRetarded,

        You wrote:

        “Now that there is another platform other than forums whose moderators are too chicken shit to let the people call a scammer a scammer,…”

        Amen, Brother… Amen!

        1. @CleverLdy ::

          I did leave a comment there once during a very uncomfortable moment for team scam … and it stayed up. A test most other “forums” have failed horribly.

          1. @SD,

            Don’t get me wrong, there IS moderation…
            We just don’t “censor” people’s posts and actually ENCOURAGE people to post factual evidence so it doesn’t just sound like someone whining.

            And just in case someone attempts to sign up to post on that “SaltyDroid” thread…

            Take note that our registration is currently monitored manually to thwart a recent influx of spammers, so if you register, make sure you are using a normal nickname and email (unpublished) so we can easily see you’re for real.


            Lisa Preston

    2. @aaron wall, Such cynicism! Filsaime may have made mistakes, but now he’s seen the light!

      I’m sure those Launch Tree refunds are already winging their way back to…er…I mean…postal system being what it is…some things just outwith our control…doing our best..etc

    3. @aaron wall, Forgive me if I have the wrong information about this, didn’t mr. Filsaime do much to try to make the fake one-time-offer more popular than Jesus himself?

  3. I remember that one time Salty, when you took credit for taking down Bernie Madoff. And then Mike was all like, “Oh no you didn’t” but you just kept right on going, and you took all that credit.
    Douche move Salty – for you to take all that credit for Bernie Madoff. I am sure someone else probably did stuff too…

    1. @Martypants ::

      I did just a good a job at stopping Bernie Madoff as the government did …

      What if Harry Markopolos had started blogging instead of sending letters to masturbators? Maybe things would have been different … probably not … but maybe.

      1. @SD, That is a very intelligent observation about Harry. But, I think he was too busy congratulating himself to spend any time learning about the effectiveness of satire.

  4. Mike Filsaime and his fraudulent forced continuity subscriptions, denied refunds and over-priced products with no income proof says more than his cheap attempt at good publicity.

    He’s lying… And he knows it. His actions speak louder and he is a fraud, a con and scammer. Period.

    And by the way don’t use any of his frauducts or “services”. PayDotCom is not safe for a serious business. Your data is being held by a criminal and a sociopath. It has a high likelihood of being comprised to the Syndicate.

  5. Top Ten Things I Love About Mike Filsaime

    10. Who doesn’t love a guy who knowingly invites a pedophile on to a cruise ship where you take your kids on a “vacation”?

    9. The “F” rating the Better Business Bureau gave him. That’s even more prestigious than the health department rating your hot dog cart with an F. “Bigger Better Faster” gnome!

    8. Who doesn’t love a guy who, after fleecing thousands of retirees from their pensions, calls on the mighty Jesus for redemption once the heat gets turned on him a little. “Help me Jesus! The big people are being so mean to me!”

    7. OK, this isn’t a top ten thing. It’s just a random question. Was Jesus at your “hookers and blow” parties, gnome? Show me the videos! I miss Jerry Springer.

    6. I love the letters he writes about his parties. He shames people who can’t afford to go on his cruises or who weren’t “chosen” to join him on his career-ending “appreciation” weekends. I’m very ashamed that there are no pictures of me with prostitutes and hard drugs. Very very ashamed.

    5. You have to love a guy who can lie so easily that he has a veritable encyclopedia of documented lies he’s told across the internet. Apparently that’s not enough so now he has to lie to you and then give evidence for the lie in the same breath. It takes balls to say “buy my turds” and then 10 seconds later proclaim grandiosely “I hereby decree that we will no longer do business with these lying turd sellers!”

    4. I think once he realizes his “career in internet marketing” was over 6 months ago he may become an evangelical preacher. He’s reformed I tell you! He was possessed by the devil and now he’s saved. Praise Jesus.

    3. I never got my money back. That only made me realize it was all my fault. I worked so much harder because of that. Thank you, gnome!

    2. OK, not another top ten but another random question. Is a “career in internet marketing” like a “career in stuffing envelopes?” Just curious.

    1. You know what? This isn’t even funny any more.

    1. Oh, wait. Here’s the real number one:

      1. I love a guy who has a billing policy of “as much as the credit limit grandpa has on his credit card.”

      Someone who did that to my grandpa would — (maybe I shouldn’t say what I really want to say right now)

      1. @MF Top Ten List, funny you mention that call – I was at my parents at the weekend and they received a call from MF (well, not him personally) – not selling anything in particular but wanting to know how much room they had left on their credit cards…

        …where I come from, that isn’t ethical.

        1. @Nikki, I agree with you. I knew someone that worked in one of his call centers and they were instructed to ‘develop a package based on the available balance of the customers credit card.’

          Brunslimey’s (Russell Brunson) does the same thing.

          I wonder if the moron’s… oops, Mormans, would approve of this?

          Oh wait, I think the biggest slimeballs in marketing are all Morman anyway. Could be a reason why the largest call center population is in Utah.

          Another fucking weird-ass cult.

            1. @michael webster, & @ms. Connie – did you then talk about the list of what are the Prosper Inc Partners?………….. they are * Ken Blanchard
              * Stephen Cooper
              * Robert Allen
              * Dean Graziosi
              * John Cummuta
              * Shawn Casey
              * Adam Mesh
              * David Bach
              * Stephen Pierce
              * JJ Childers
              * LegalZoom
              * Bob Gatchel
              * Joe Vitale
              * Joel Comm
              * Mike Filsaime
              * Philip Tirone
              * Glen Hopkins
              * Nightingale Conant
              * Get Motivated
              * John Assaraf
              * Keith Wellman
              * The Online Entrepreneur
              * Herb Kay

        2. @Nikki, I think mr. Christie over at http://mikefilsaimesucks.com/ might want maybe to rethink the meaning of “Honest” in “Honest Holley’s” name who sent him on to mr. Filsaime’s site – especially since he tells us is a “senior citizen in dire straights financially with very little computer experience” which maybe is part of mr. Filsaime’s target market, ?

          Also I have wondered if mr. Christie got an answer to his desparate plea “Please respond” he posted on 9/27/2010? I am looking around for it and thought maybe it was hidden or something.

  6. Seems like the “Circle Jerk”… er… I mean “The Syndicate” will be rolling along for the foreseeable future.. they are all promoting Kajabi?? an Andy “the Hobbit” Jenkins scam… er… venture…

    Just out of curiosity I looked up the origins of the word “Kajabi”

    Ka (noun). Definition: the soul of a dead person

    Jab (verb). Definition: To poke or thrust abruptly

    I (noun). Definition: The self; the ego

    English translation: “I have no soul, so I’ll fuck you”

  7. When I signed up as a vendor on PayDotCom, I met the “must have one sale before you’re listed in the marketplace” rule by using a prepaid debit card, completely fabricating a customer name, using a brand new email address with nonsense characters, and then buying my own product.

    Within a few hours of completing the purchase, the brand new email address began receiving spam emails from unknown recipients, coincidentally in the “make money online” niche, addressed to the full name which I had just fabricated a few hours before.


    1. @PayDotCom Vendor,

      Told you that they compromise data. I bet they also steal data to compete with people who are making a lot of money.

      PayDotCom is not for a business. It’s set-up for the Syndicate to steal data in order to gain an edge from naive and gullible people so they can compete with them and profit from the data all the while as they wreck their business.

  8. Me no am scammer. Salty Jones are hater. and have minyans who say kurses.

    You think for selfee. Me are having feelings of hurt. I no is promiting produx of no good value. I no want that.

    Wood ur childrens want to reed words of hateful hateyness? I no thinks so. ask yurselves why you am jealousies.

    u come here with haterness you is dileeted. i say no mores about this. thinks! THINKs peoples!! why am salties droids doing these things of evil?

    1. @Mike Filsaime’s Keyboard, You passed the illiteracy test, so you must be who you clam. I mean claim.

  9. I can’t believe Mike has the audacity to act so hurt after he’s scammed so many people. I signed up for one of his newsletters and was subjected to so many upsells, I gave up trying to buy the subscription. Somehow the subscription succeeded and I was billed for almost two years, during which, I tried unsuccessfully by phone, email and in writing, to stop the subscription.

    I did read the newsletters, and they contained lots of basic info you could find online. Even his VA wrote articles on something pointless. Many articles were copied and pasted from ezine articles, and there was also promotional materials and excepts from third party websites.

    Mike, I’m not a jealous hater. In fact I have a business that pays me enough to work full time online. However, I resent you for continuing to bill me for a crappy product. I resent your underhanded tactics that rob people of their money. You are a very greedy, unscrupulous man who has hurt a lot of people for the sake of increasing your wealth.

    How dare you criticise others for righfully expressing their anger?!

    Wake up, Mike! You’re beginning to reap what you have sown.

    1. @,

      Mike might be an idiot, but why the fuck would you get billed for 2 years without having your credit card company cancel the charges because they were fraudulent, or have them charge the shit back.

      As much as I would like to see Mike F has his nuts run over by a speeding train, as human beings who make purchases, we have to take SOME responsibility.

    2. @Anonymous, come on come chargebacks! And didn’t the FTC recently crack down on forced continuity? For reals!

  10. So The Syndicate is really just a harmless little treehouse club after all. Says Mike L, paraphrasing Mike F:

    2. The Syndicate Mastermind. “The Syndicate” is a tongue-in-cheek renaming of an informal mastermind group of marketing guys, including Mike Filsaime, who first started talking with each other about tech developments and online business at all of these Internet marketing seminars where they kept bumping into each other as speakers, attendees, etc. This is a closed-mastermind that communicates daily via email like any like minded group would in a yahoo/google “group.” The mastermind ends there. Members will talk one on one or meet at events just as they do (more often than not) with non members of the mastermind…

    …Many marketers online are friends offline and will love to “talk shop” and find ways to do joint ventures and relationships develop…


    See, it’s really all so innocent. And that Syndicate stuff was really just tongue-in-cheek, so we shouldn’t worry our pretty little hater heads over it for another moment.

    And apparently everyone knows about the affiliate tiering system, so again, NBD.

    6. Affiliate Tiering. Mike Filsaime, like most Internet marketers with affiliate programs, has a tiered structure. A, B, and C affiliates are treated differently based upon what they bring to the table per launch…not because of who they are but rather how much they support…

    …A system that rewards marketers for working hard makes sense both short-term and long-term. One doesn’t get classified as an A-tier and ride the gravy train by not promoting…


    So why is it that what’s-his-name in the Tony Tape referred to “The B List” but then added that of course they won’t publicly SAY that it is the B list? If it’s a well established system that everyone knows about and accepts, why the deception?

    I’m confused. I really don’t understand this stuff. But maybe it’s because I’m just a girl.

    1. @Cosmic Connie,

      Ever hear the saying “Liars need to have perfect memories”?

      Lies and deceptions need to have perfect consistency and willing dupes to hold up under scrutiny.

      Gnomie and his band of merry Syndicate members have had the latter for a long time now which is why this sad tale has dragged on for so long. Even today, they still have true believing cult members that will defend them before opening their eyes to the obvious.

      However, their lies are laughably (almost pathologically) inconsistent.

      Your confusion has nothing to do with being a girl. The problem is, you’re trying to unravel truth from an elaborate web of deception and looking for “good” where none exists.

  11. Surprised by the shit storm? really come on now…..

    Filsaime, Schefren… trying to paint themselves innocent


    you ALL sell overpriced products to people who

    1)can’t afford them- (they can barely pay their mortgages much less your 6 pay you friggin LOSERS)

    2) aren’t even remotely ready for the crap you stick in a box or in some crappy 4 week module based course ( seriously- they make that shit up as they go…go ask Reese about outsource force.. LAME

    2)wind getting sucked into your up sell down sell hell and the black hole of continuity since they dont understand a damn thing about online marketing to begin with

    3) never do a friggin thing with the shit they do get suckered into.. poor bastards

    Karma is a bitch boys…your time has come
    and salty keep up the good work

    1. @SOB’s,

      Those things that you listed definitely suck, but they aren’t the reason that people should be pissed off at this cluster fuck of morons.

      You said:

      1)can’t afford them- (they can barely pay their mortgages much less your 6 pay you friggin LOSERS)

      2) aren’t even remotely ready for the crap you stick in a box or in some crappy 4 week module based course ( seriously- they make that shit up as they go…go ask Reese about outsource force.. LAME

      2)wind getting sucked into your up sell down sell hell and the black hole of continuity since they dont understand a damn thing about online marketing to begin with

      3) never do a friggin thing with the shit they do get suckered into.. poor bastards

      I say:

      1. If people can’t afford it, they shouldn’t buy it.

      2. If they aren’t ready, they shouldn’t buy it

      2. If the continuity is hidden, then it is definitely some shady shit, but we as consumers are faced with up and side sells everyday. It is UP TO US to decide whether to buy or not to buy.

      3. If people buy shit that they don’t do anything with, then they should have their credit cards and paypal accounts shoved up their ass.

      The “syndicate” and Mike The Gnome should be “hated” because of the way that they sell, and not the fact that they sell shit, and people buy it, which is a big fucking distinction.

      Hate these assholes because they are price fixing, and planning with each other to sell you the same shit 10 times in a row with a different cover on it. The way you make it sound, we should want to kick the ass of every person that actually sells ANYTHING.

      Whether you are buying shit online or offline, YOU have to take responsibility for what you purchase.

      If you buy something you can’t afford, your a fucking idiot.
      If you buy something that you don’t use, your a fucking idiot
      If you buy something that doesn’t live up to the sales letter, AND you don’t get a refund, you are a fucking idiot.

      Don’t be a fucking idiot.

      1. @ThisIsGettingRetarded,

        “The “syndicate” and Mike The Gnome should be “hated” because of the way that they sell, and not the fact that they sell shit,”
        “The way you make it sound, we should want to kick the ass of every person that actually sells ANYTHING.”

        Surprisingly, there ARE actually successful individuals and companies that DON’T SELL SHIT. Most of them hate the shit sellers as much as the rest of us– and not just because of the WAY they sell it, either. They hate them because every time someone buys a shit product– even if the seller refunds their money– they’re going to be more reluctant to take a chance on the good product that they worked hard and spent good money to produce.

        No, I lie. They hate them because people who knowingly sell shit to others are scum– even if they kiss up to you and apologize when you complain.

      2. @ThisIsGettingRetarded,

        I see your comments getting voted down, and I don’t think it’s exactly fair. You have some good points.

        Consumers have to take responsibility for their purchases. There’s not doubt about that.

        But all too often people resent anyone selling anything, which has given “sales” and “promotion” a bad rap. There’s nothing wrong with selling a product you firmly believe in, that can truly help people.

        That has not been the case with the Syndicate. Even these hucksters don’t believe in the frauducts they’re delivering and the techniques they’re teaching (that they don’t even use!)

        what we’re here “hating on” is the *way* in which these offers have been structured… and
        what we’ve received as an end product (not living up to it’s hype)… and
        and the way these scammers have operated behind closed doors…

        The sad thing is the Gnome can’t see the forest for the trees and still thinks he has operated on the up-and-up… which he hasn’t.

        (Bend Over Here It Comes Again)

        PS – your is a possessive pronoun. I think you meant you’re. check this handy guide

      3. @ThisIsGettingRetarded,

        “1. If people can’t afford it, they shouldn’t buy it.
        2. If they aren’t ready, they shouldn’t buy it
        3. If the continuity is hidden, then it is definitely some shady shit, but we as consumers are faced with up and side sells everyday. It is UP TO US to decide whether to buy or not to buy.
        4. If people buy shit that they don’t do anything with, then they should have their credit cards and paypal accounts shoved up their ass.”

        your comments aren’t accurate. however, in a world where the advertising is legitimate or legal for that matter, your comments would be.

        the problem with -people not being ready- or -not being able to afford it- is that scumbags like filsaime flat out address those concerns and explain why it’s important you buy now anyway. for example -if you think you can’t afford this, i don’t see how you can afford not to get this program, if you don’t act now, your life won’t change for the better- or -even if you think you’re not ready, i can assure you that you will succeed with this system with all the tools and help we provide. plus there are only 84 available so if you don’t act now, you’ll miss out forever.-

        you have to remember that these guys use the dirtiest, most hyped up advertising possible. they make promises they know damn well they can’t keep, the make guarantees that they refuse to honor, they deliver garbage products that deliver nearly none of what the sales letter promises, etc.

        it’s not exactly easy to predict what is going to happen when you buy one of these products considering the fact that they target people without much money or experience and use that as the reason you need to buy. not to mention, many of the people are new and have no experience with this pool of sharks so they are not only trusting, but excited to act on the sales letter full of lies they just read because they don’t know they aren’t lies.

        now, your statement -If people buy shit that they don’t do anything with, then they should have their credit cards and paypal accounts shoved up their ass- sounds exactly like something that filsaime would say. that is their default response to why none of their customers make money or why they refuse to honor a publicly posted refund policy.


        1. @brad,

          I’ve never had any dealings with MF, so I was UNAWARE that he didn’t honor his refund policy.

          My intent wasn’t to suggest that the fault was with the consumer, it was more to say that each and everyday in any market we are hit with “professional advertising”.

          GNC advertises diet pills that will make you lose 30 pounds in 2 weeks.

          Different body washes advertise that by using their product that you will somehow be more attractive to members of the opposite sex.

          Internet Marketers advertise that you can make 6 figures a month on auto-pilot without doing a damn thing.

          The syndicate as well as other advertisers are always going to be able to find a way to make their offers compliant with the FTC. Some have even gone as far as to put a big ass disclaimer at the bottom of their page saying that you probably won’t make jack shit. Because they will find a way to be compliant, Personal responsibility on the part of consumers is the only way that I can see to actually hit these fuckers where it hurts, their wallets.

          I can’t stand some of the shit I see done, and can’t stand to hear and read some of the stories around the net about people losing their houses, or their spouses due to how much money they have spent on products from the “gurus”, but at the end of the day, there has to be at least a little bit of personal accountability.

      4. @ThisIsGettingRetarded ::

        Don’t you be a fucking idiot you fucking idiot.

        1. People can be :: and are :: manipulated. “Don’t get manipulated” is not a message that you can put on road signs or in text books. It’s like saying :: “Don’t get sad or lonely”. Great :: good sign :: I’ll remember that … and hopefully life will just magically not take a huge shit on my head.

        2. There is something VERY wrong with selling shit … all by itself. Mike can barely write in English … yet he’s going to “coach” you to the top of the business world.

        Both the what :: and the how :: of Mike Filsaime Inc. are amoral and should be eliminated.

        3. “The way you make it sound, we should want to kick the ass of every person that actually sells ANYTHING.”

        Bullshit! That argument has been made here maybe twice … and never by me … but it’s been “countered” by concerned “citizens” no less than 1000 times.

        You think consumers need to wise up? Write your fucking Congressmen …

        1. @SD,

          I think maybe my comments were taken out of context a bit.

          I was more addressing the fact that some of the comments that you see here and elsewhere on the net from people that claim that EVERYTHING is a scam, and that anyone selling products online is a SCAMMER.

          I am by no means trying to say that this cluster fuck of retards is in anyway right. I’m more trying to say that if people stopped being fucking idiots, that it would make the syndicates job much harder.

          In this thread, a guy commented that he let Filsaime bill him for 2 years when he didn’t want to be billed. In other threads there have been comments from people that have spent tens of thousands of dollars on products that didn’t get them anywhere.

          The syndicate is never going to take responsibility for their actions or feel one bit of fucking remorse for what they do, because they are assholes. However, in many cases the same people calling them scammers are the same people that buy their shit over and over and over again.

          Personal responsibility, and financial responsibility is something that any adult with a credit card or a paypal account should have. If you keep making the same mistake over and over again, you are a fucking idiot.

          1. @ThisIsGettingRetarded, It doesn’t make sense to me how your statements can get out of context when they are in this context we are in right now?

            Also, when you told me about the hidden charges, you also said I could have a choice about them, but how can I have a choice if they’re hidden – or did I miss something maybe?

            1. @Jack,

              WTF are you talking about? When did I ever say anything about this:

              Also, when you told me about the hidden charges, you also said I could have a choice about them, but how can I have a choice if they’re hidden – or did I miss something maybe?

              I said, don’t buy shit you can’t afford

              I said, don’t buy shit you aren’t going to use

              and I said, If you do buy something and it is complete shit, get your fucking money back either by using the vendors refund policy, or by growing a pair of testicles and calling your credit card company for a charge back.

              Hidden continuity is a shitty way to do business, and I myself was a victim of it a little over a year ago when I purchased a Dan Kennedy product, I think. You can bet your ass that I called my credit card company and filed for a charge back, and let the credit card company know that he was involved in FRAUDULENT BILLING activities.

              The syndicate or anyone else isn’t going to bill me for some shit that I didn’t sign up for, OR keep my money for a product that doesn’t do what they say it’s going to do.

            2. @This is getting retarded – just reread and i did completely f’ up. Gotta give my own self a thumbs down on that one myself.

              Sorry about that.

          2. @ThisIsGettingRetarded, I hear what you’re saying and it’s dead-on accurate. Let me try and state it differently…

            What you are doing here is ONE part of the battle. Bring down the fraud bastards. Good riddance.

            BUT — if we ALSO don’t start taking care and watching our own buying habits, a whole new “crew” will just step in and start fleecing the sheep again.

            It’s happened so many times in history it’s not at all funny.

            The uneducated consumer is no defense to the fraud. Not at all. But it does make endless fraud upon fraud upon fraud by new sets of frauds possible over and over again.

            The best way to avoid being manipulated is to understand how manipulation works.

            This site is doing a great job of unearthing and pointing to all those seedy methods and “tricks of the trade” that are used regularly. Read up on it. Study it and know what’s happening. Then spread the word about the TACTICS.

            You can do that without even naming names.

            Then you will bring ’em down and make it increasingly harder for new young punk frauds to step into the vacuum left by their demise.

      5. @ThisIsGettingRetarded,

        Those things that you listed definitely suck, but they aren’t the reason that people should be pissed off at this cluster fuck of morons.

        You said:

        1)can’t afford them- (they can barely pay their mortgages much less your 6 pay you friggin LOSERS)

        2) aren’t even remotely ready for the crap you stick in a box or in some crappy 4 week module based course ( seriously- they make that shit up as they go…go ask Reese about outsource force.. LAME

        2)wind getting sucked into your up sell down sell hell and the black hole of continuity since they dont understand a damn thing about online marketing to begin with

        3) never do a friggin thing with the shit they do get suckered into.. poor bastards

        I say:

        1. If people can’t afford it, they shouldn’t buy it.

        Absolutely they should not buy it but be an idiot yourself and act as if the people who get sucked into this vicious cycle are to blame. Bull fucking shit… come on…
        You know as well as I do that the launch formula they all use works… albeit a fuck lot less than it used to before every moron with a product was using PLF.

        Human being wants to make money online + PLF= suckered

        2. If they aren’t ready, they shouldn’t buy it
        Again stop being as ass and realize who we are talking about here.. these people are wrapped up in a process that makes them think they need every fucking thing that comes their way as you know it…

        2. If the continuity is hidden, then it is definitely some shady shit, but we as consumers are faced with up and side sells everyday. It is UP TO US to decide whether to buy or not to buy.
        Agreed it is… think about how unclear most IM marketing funnels are and the incessant eit pops with their downsells CHRIST anyone could fall for that shit… and does

        3. If people buy shit that they don’t do anything with, then they should have their credit cards and paypal accounts shoved up their ass.

        You must be the only human being in the entire fucking world that uses everything they buy… I dont give a shit if its Internet marketing or god damn pimple cream we are all guilty of that and yeah at a 2K price point people should be a fuck lot smarter .. again look at the sheep

        The “syndicate” and Mike The Gnome should be “hated” because of the way that they sell, and not the fact that they sell shit, and people buy it, which is a big fucking distinction.

        YES agreed big distinction they sell BS and sucker people don’t fault the action I fault the person selling CRAP

        Hate these assholes because they are price fixing, and planning with each other to sell you the same shit 10 times in a row with a different cover on it. The way you make it sound, we should want to kick the ass of every person that actually sells ANYTHING.

        NO you are doing that not me

        Whether you are buying shit online or offline, YOU have to take responsibility for what you purchase.

        If you buy something you can’t afford, your a fucking idiot.
        If you buy something that you don’t use, your a fucking idiot
        If you buy something that doesn’t live up to the sales letter, AND you don’t get a refund, you are a fucking idiot.

        Don’t be a fucking idiot.

        Take some of your own advice… and DONT BE A FUCKING IDIOT when talking about a market you seem to not nothing about

        1. @SOB’s,

          Find the rest of your brain cells and then try again.

          ZOMG!!! People are selling shit that people can’t afford!!! No shit, Sherlock fucking holmes.

          ZOMG!!! Marketers are using hype to sell their stuff!!! No shit, Sherlock fucking Holmes.

          You either have a comprehension issue, or you are just fucking stupid. I’ve said at least 20 times on this site, and at least 5 times in this thread that the people in the “syndicate” are PIECES OF SHIT and deserve TO HAVE THEIR NUTS TRAMPLED BY A PACK OF FAT PEOPLE IN 6 INCH HEELS.

          What I’m saying is that:

          If you are looking online, and have $1,000 in your bank account to pay your mortgage and you give your $1,000 to Filsaime, Kern, Walker, or any of these other morons, you are a fucking idiot.

          If you are a serial buyer, and click the buy now button on every sales page you see, you are a fucking idiot.

          If you don’t get your money back when you have been the victim of false advertising or fraudulent billing, you are a fucking idiot.

          Again, there is no doubt that there is a group of people that are taking advantage of newbiews, and sheeple every single chance they get. That is a fact, but being a smart consumer can save people many hassles.

          2 years ago, I went onto a car lot to help my brother buy a car, and while we were there, the car dealer actually ended up selling me a $40,000 car that I didn’t need, but after test driving it, and him talking about it and shit, I bought it. After about the second week of having it, I hated that damn car. It was too small, it was too expensive, and it was a stupid purchase.

          I was a fucking idiot. PERIOD.

          I’m not saying that my situation is the same as what many people are faced with online when they buy into program after program, and get hit with email after email, but those people at some point have to take a LITTLE BIT of responsibility for not getting out of the loop when they see their savings dwindle, and when they start to see these people for what they are – CROOKS!

          You see it on forums all the time: ” I bought so and so’s $2,000 course 6 months ago, and it was horrible! they never delivered the whole product, and then they wouldn’t even refund my money!”

          Which they quickly follow up with:

          “I hope this new $2,000 course that I’m buying from them will be better”

          Are you fucking serious?

          The way you talk, the people that buy things, and burn through their families savings have no responsibility for their actions, and that they shouldn’t be smart enough to look at the situation and realize, “holy shit, I’ve spent thousands of dollars for these frauducts, and havn’t made a dime”

          1. @ThisIsGettingRetarded,

            Scumbags selling to people that should take responsibility for their actions but in reality don’t…

            so does that make the method any less despicable.. no

            The weak and stupid are preyed upon and fall for it over and over again..

            we’re sayin the same thing

          2. @ThisIsGettingRetarded ::

            It makes no difference whether or not you hate the Syndicate … if you want to call victims “fucking idiots” … then go somewhere else. I’m doing something here … and you are bothering me.

          3. @ThisIsGettingRetarded, “That is a fact, but being a smart consumer can save people many hassles.”

            I thnk it could be true but we can also see it is not the way to be “winning” as I remember SD telling us.

            I could be surprised to find someone telling me that most of the people even the ones that are the smart ones will not be so easily manipulated by emotions – we can see many and many studies that have statistics proof that can show us that logic (smart consumery) will only kick in after the sheeples (even “smarty sheeples”) act on their emotions –

            so we know from this SD site that now we must OUTWit their emotions because there is too much proof I thnk that all other alternatives will keep on failing.

            So maybe you can ask me why can’t the consumers learn to be so much smarter with their emotions then and what I want to tell you is that I think it is because it is so much a bigger challenge than to learn than what the “don’t do this” education can try to teach –

            because emotions cannot be the same for all people i thnk?

        2. @SOB’s,

          Before you jump all over my ass.. my post has a ton of errors in it.. I wrote to speak my mind and posted w/o checking it over… so IF you do have something intelligent to say in reply
          please go ahead

          Don’t bother using my sloppy grammar and spelling as an opener…


  12. From Filsaime’s post:

    UPDATE: Blog comments are on hold until we can get out [sic] Facebook plugin installed. We want to eliminate anonymous posters for obvious reasons.

    I noticed the Kajabi flog also has Facebook-only comments. I have a feeling that this will end badly for the scammers, but at first they will attempt to use real name information against all dissenting opinions.

    1. @Duff, Of course, people can still sign up for a Facebook account using a pseudonym, such as Buster Therass, or maybe Givitoo Emgood.

    2. @Duff,

      They are so stupid. This could backfire on them big time! If they want to force people to use their real names through facebook they are going to open a pandora’s box they don’t want. I have a feeling there are still a lot of people holding back a lot of dirty laundry on these guys. Having someone step out of the anonymous shadow into the light is going to cause people to really take the gloves off. Once you have exposed who you are there is nothing to lose anyway.

      I think people will start to step forward little by little in their facebook accounts to say what they need to say and I think the criticisms are going to be sharper then ever. They are fools for thinking they will stop people from telling the truth and what is really going to fuck them up is when shitty comments are posted about them through facebook and they can’t remove the comments. That social proof and viral factor can work against them big time with what they are trying to do.


      1. @IHateThemToo, Please do not forget this golden syndicate rule:

        When used to sell the bad, empty, useless thud-boxes of syndicate, then the social proof is the sales-applause for the syndicate people.

        When it is used to say the truth against them, then the social proof is the hate mob! >:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-<

  13. See, this is what I like about this blog….Mike has bitched, cried and done nothing but whine about his innocence on both his blog and Mike Youngs ‘interview’ – he thought he was doing damage control, but one beautifully summarized post from the Droid and all his pathetic little lies and bullshit protests are laid bare.

    Jeez Mike, do you really think people are still sucking up your Kool aid? Wake up gnome – buy a fishing rod and retire to a pond!

    1. @Wiggin-Out, I would imagine the Gnome would opt to retire to a mushroom ranch, since he’d have access to both shit and shade.

  14. mikey is it time for me to unload everything on you I always thought of you as the worm pond scum but now I always think of you as the gnome. Maria always thought of you as the her next Dennis.

    You think you fight back. At least you were the only syndicate member with a little guys to try none of the others will say anything because they are too scared know they have no way to fight the truth.

    Your message is sad and silly. You are pond scum you are a scammer, you ruin people’s lives and you want to pretend that you are more than that you want to pretent you are an industry leader in internet scamming world and so jsut because you are a leader others are jeolous well normal people do not want to be leaders in shit. You are the best shithead. So what.

    It makes you money it makes you the big house with the horse stable. You have more money than the minions you see out there hating you now the minions that mutliply every day in part to this droid but in greater part to your actions.

    I have advice though. Just accept what you are. A pond scum scammer. The backlash is the price you pay for being what you are. That is the price of your behavior. Maybe the other syndicate members understand this and that is why they will not show their face or fight back.

    It is karma and you reap what you planted. Those that plant love get happiness those that plant shit get green shit.

    When you pretend to be mor than a gnome you look pathetic it shows that deep down you know what you are and this type of hustle will never work.

    You are a gnome. It isn’t photoshop that made you a gnome you did.

    1. @mikefilsaimeinsider, I voted you down. Not because of your message, but because your run-on sentences and such make it difficult to read. Please put a little more effort into what you write. Editing is a good idea.

      Now back to the show…

      1. @mikefilsaimeinsider,

        I voted you up for 3 raisins:

        1. cuz I luvs me the underdog
        2. the last line about Photoshop wasn’t half bad
        3. this line, though probably unintentional, was funny: “It makes you money it makes you the big house with the horse stable.”

  15. Mike FilsLAME

    He was selling resell rights on some dogpoo he had laying around (that NO-ONE could even give away for free), mumbling about how he had to sell his wifes diamond ring yadda yadda made up story (with dates that contradict) to make us feel sorry for him.

    Totally manipulative bullshit story – this guy really is a total fucker.

    And now AJ with his kajabi Kakabi shit.. Softwarez that allowz u to be l33t scammer like the big boyz.

    Is it any wonder the FTC cracked down on this shit?

  16. I don’t think this was so much a jab at SD as it was an attempt to humanize his brand image.

    I mean, it was a jab at SD, but talking about family and hurt feelings is pretty basic customer-base damage control.

    1. @.nate, he is talking about a year ago mikey said he was getting out of internet market selling all of his stuff and told a bullshit story about how he had to pawn his ring for his wife at one time for money pure mikey scam and lies different than his post about jason droid.

  17. Its amazing how accurate the droid is with a lot of comments. I’ll back him up. The syndicate does exist. They do exist only for the reason of sharing information and of course promoting each other’s shit. But one thing the driod has not brought out is most of them are broke.

    no they are not millionaires, they may live a fancy life, but most could not finance a stick of gum because their credit is so bad. They only survive by having launch after launch and people are not falling for it as much as they once did. This is why they are so worried about the droid. People are starting to get wise. Get one of them to show you a site that is making money on the net without selling you some product that is in the IM niche. The truth is none of them have real business sites that make money. They only make money by mailing. That is the entire business model. That is why they don’t give out any earnings any longer. They don’t have any outside of the crap they push.

    People who follow these guys and think they are some great people are wrong. They are assholes who treat their employees like crap just as they do their customers. Also don’t blame the employees for a lot of this crap as they are just holding on trying to deal with the fits of rage and constant changing of minds. Most of these gurus not only are broke they have the business sense of a rat. I know quite a few who would quit in a heartbeat except they have families to support and the economy sucks so bad right now.

    1. @Insider,

      Sounds like you and I are in the same boat.
      I’ve said it oftentimes as well. The gurus are broke. They are financially in a hole and have to do launch after launch to dig themselves out.
      And you’re right, they do treat their employees like crap and they treat everyone like that because they have such a huge ego.
      These guys are d-bags in real life who have no social skills whatsoever. They couldn’t talk themselves out of a paper bag.

      I think they could get themselves out if they had the business sense.

    2. @Insider ::

      I mostly agree. They are broke … living scam to scam … renting houses … getting into too much debt … actually believing in their own “I just made $24 million bullshit”.

      And :: IMHO :: the money flows up. They are endlessly paying each other for “services”. Map it all out … and I’ll bet it flows in a readily measurable direction towards the top. The pushers never bank the bank.

      Death Ray was much bigger than these dweebs :: and yet …


      1. @SD, There is precedent for this -even if it 50 years old. But read the biography of the “Yellow Kid”, a champion confidence artist from the late 1890’s through to the 1940’s. Most of the confidence cons were suckers for some other con.

    1. @anonone,

      Yes. Maybe at Americash. I found them through Lending Tree, or rather they found me. They were aggressive and made me uneasy enough that I told them we’d changed our mind about the property we were thinking about buying when really we were going with a lender with a brick and mortar presence with whom I’d previously done business and didn’t have so many sketchy reviews online.

  18. @Filsaime blows dogs ::

    Frank said he was in it. Then Andy said he was in it. Then he said he was in it.

    So yeah … he’s in it.

    1. @SuchFun ::

      Droid :: There is only room enough in this town for one of us …

      MF :: No there is lot of houses in this town. Yo!

    2. @SuchFun, more like wit vs dimwit.

      Kind of like taking a knife to a gunfight. Or maybe a feather.

    3. @SuchFun, Or, to rephrase your pithy comment (and take a line from The Princess Bride):

      MF: Never go against a vicious garden gnome when your reputation is on the line!

      […MF’s reputation ruined]

      Salty Droid: That was too easy. Next?

  19. Mike Young and Mr Bear – that exclusive interview in full!!!!

    Mike – OK, Mr Bear, I’m almost embarassed to ask, but I just have to get to the bottom of the rumours about the woods.

    Bear – I want to be absolutely clear here – yes, on some occasions I may have shat in the woods, but it was a very long time ago. Among bears, I am probably the greatest and most forward-looking of all time.

    Mike – Yes, that’s definitely something people should know about you

    Bear – The fact is, the level of criticism directed at the bear community has been ridiculous and hurtful. And has primarily been down to one or two spiteful individuals. No happy, sane people have ever noticed a foul smell in the woods.

    Mike – Nevertheless, I gather you’re planning some exciting reforms in the near future?

    Bear – Yes. I’m insisting that a Portaloo be installed, and made available to other members of the bear community, for $67 per month, to offset the cost. I will do my bit by refusing to shake hands with any bear who does not use the single-use towels ($9.97 each)

    Mike – Wow. Just wow. I came here with tough questions, but now I feel…overwhelmed. How could I have had you so wrong? Must have been a problem with the billing software.

    Bear – That’s OK. I’m just glad that we can put the whole sorry episode behind us, and start fresh with a spotlessly clean Portaloo. No more questions?

    Mike – Think that’s about it…[checks watch]…[whispers]that’ll be $2000.

    Next week, Mike has some tough questions for the Pope, who has been accused of being ‘a Catholic’ – watch this space!

  20. To all the people who are rushing to defend the business practices of syndicate members and saying that it’s really the victims fault:

    I hope that your friends or trusting elderly relatives pay big money to get their roof painted by a gang of dodgy tradesmen.
    (They use cheap materials, and the paint disappears after the first rain shower)

    I’m sure you’ll have great pleasure in telling them that the tradesmen were not at fault for telling lies, and that they deserved to lose their money for believing the sales pitch.

  21. I’m not jumping to any conclusions but . . .

    I was hatin’ on Mike Young when hatin’ on Mike Young wasn’t kewl.

    Hoosier daddy? Yep. Me.

  22. I just read Mike Filsaime’s posts,

    Dude. Duuude. Duuuhhuuuude.

    I’m not a grammarian and I tend to cut ESLers and people from Wyoming a lot of slack when I read their written words.

    I also don’t care if infinitives are split. (Sometimes they deserve it. It’s a Latin thing anyway, so who really gives a crap?)

    But, wow. This guy. He’s got all the writing ability of a bone dry ballpoint pen. He should stick to video.

    It’s funny that he chose a Forrest Gump quote to anchor the end.

    1. @spoonfaceboy,


      the thing i enjoy most about SD’s posts – and the comments others leave here – is how *some of us* engage in a highly intelligent debate (not you mikefilsaimeinsider and other trolls). references to hegel, infinitives, correcting grammar… it’s all good shit – and the kind of stuff you won’t find on other blogs/forums!

  23. I figured out the root of the Mike Filsaime’s problems!

    It’s so simple . . .

    From time to time Mike Fisaime needs to pay for legal services from the Droid. Then the Droid will have a vested interest in Mike Filsaime’s success and let him do a puff piece interview and explain away all the naughty bad.

    Clever, huh?

    With comments like this:

    “Always do your research, don’t rely upon gossip, and when in doubt, go to the source and ask questions.”

    I just interviewed Internet marketer Mike Filsaime for an hour and a half to get to the bottom of some of the rumors floating around the blogosphere.

    Doesn’t it make sense to go straight to the source instead of guessing what he’s been up to?

    … here are eight things you should know about Mike Filsaime

    The word know is key. Where an honest, unbiased interview title and intro might read,

    “Mike Filsaime’s responds to accusations”

    Mike Young leaves the Droid and readers very little wiggle room to misconsture his intent by writing that we should “know” these things as one might “know” the truth or “know” the facts.

    Mike Young is trying to do more with this piece than just clear the air about Mike Filsaime. His framing of this puff piece interview paints Mike Young squarely into the corner of the Syndicate apologists.

    1. @spoonfaceboy,

      We tore Mike Young a new one & called him out on his bullshit in a previous blog post.

        1. @Joel, Hey, thanks. Good stuff that I missed. I’m a little behind on my Droid comment reading. There’s just so much of it lately.

    2. @spoonfaceboy, Mike needs a lawyer as he steels money and some people seek revenge and get it. he stole $1997 from me and doesn’t want to refund me by simply ignoring my posts and even registered letter addressed directly to him. Mike is a real scam. I hope his karma will catch up with him very soon.

  24. Scammers Hurt Everybody:

    “As people get burned the web as a whole gets more cynical. The scammers steal from the plates of honest folks as the web adjusts to a new level of cynicism…each round more cynical than the last. This is why you have to prove to people that they are going to get a 20x return when they buy from you, because a half-dozen scammers already ripped them off, and by the time they find you they simply have no trust in internet marketers (and perhaps none for humanity).”

    -Aaron Wall, SEOBOOK.COM

  25. Up early to find the latest fightback from the Syndicate. It’s ten times more literate than the Gnome’s sad effort but it still leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth.


    “……..Basically, it’s easier for those people to try to tear you down than it is to go out and actually work to create some value in the world.

    (And make no mistake, that’s the business that all entrepreneurs are in – creating value. And it’s also why a lot of people fail… because they never figure that out.)

    And I just want to say right here – there is nothing wrong with failure. I’ve failed at lots of things. Failure is only a problem if you either take it as permanent and don’t try again, or if you blame your failure on other people.

    So please take it as a given… when you’re an entrepreneur, people will try to tear you down.

    If you pay attention to those people, then you’re injecting poison into your brain, as surely as if you were in that hotel watching a TV with a convenience store clerk begging for her life.

    As an entrepreneur, one group of people who will try to tear you down will be people that are close to you… your family and/or your friends. You will get more of this when you’re first starting out. Trust me, this can be very painful… but once your business takes off, this type of criticism tends to fade away.

    But that’s not the end of it… these days, in the age of the Internet, where anyone that can turn on a computer can become an anonymous critic… well, you will certainly draw naysayers and critics. Maybe not when you start your business, but the larger your success grows, the bigger a target you become.

    Like I said above… this isn’t a happy fact, and if you’re just starting out it might be discouraging… but it’s a fact nonetheless… if you’re going to achieve great things, you’re going to attract jealous attacks.

    So here’s some strategies to deal with it:

    …….. 2. If you’re getting attacked by critics (who usually have no experience or are abject failures), then the best answer is usually to ignore them. Don’t visit the places they hang out. It’s that simple. In general, the people listening to them are not your clients or prospects.

    It’s almost like an intelligence test. The people who are stupid enough to listen to the bile and hatred are not intelligent enough to be your clients………….”

    Two points.

    1. It’s clear that all entrepreneurs (and especially members of the Syndicate) are not in the business of creating value. The selling of over-priced information products often to desperate people who don’t get any benefit from them can in no way be described as the creation of value.

    2. Saying that giving attention to negative people injects poison into the brain is a clever and rather manipulative argument. And I think this is what the Syndicate are going to focus on to try and innoculate their followers from believing the criticism.

    The Gnome talked about the haters on this blog. His track record of overt dishonesty reduces his credibility to zero.

    Jeff Walker has a more sophisticated argument because he is more plausible and because we all know that criticism can be destructive and can stop people progressing – and we all know jealous people.

    But his approach is really similar to the Scientologists, who forbid them members to look at criticism of Scientology on the internet.

    Walker doesn’t have that much control over his followers. So instead, by likening the arguments of critical people to poison, he discourages people from listening to legitimate criticism of his and other products. After all, what sensible person would want to put poison in their brain?

    It’s clear that this is going to be a long-drawn out guerilla war.

    1. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer,

      Those ass wholes are mixing in half-truths with blatant lies meant to manipulate people.

      It’s true that when you start a business, their is a high chance your family will criticize you harshly and be a bunch of negative critics but these assholes are only saying this… so you don’t tell your family that you maybe buying into their scams so they may protect you.

      Separating people from those who are close to them is done to achieve more control over a person. They don’t need people telling them that they maybe sucked into a con.

      Lastly their is a huge difference between negativity, criticism and the HARSH REALITY…

      Negativity is being a irrational depressive state of mind. Harsh reality is the FACTS… and the FACTS are that they are fucking scammers who prey on people’s money.

      Them being exposed for it is the moral criticism which educates people. This is POSITIVE… not negative. Those scammers blogs are negative. They are filled with lies, greed and manipulation.

    2. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer, I agree that Jeff Walker’s anti-critic post was both more subtle and more literate than Mike Filsaime’s. As you and @SyndicateExposed pointed out, Walker’s post had just enough “truthiness” to make it sound plausible to many. But the arguments he put forth reminded me very much of the discussion that took place nearly a year ago on Pat O’Bryan’s blog. Most of the comments on that discussion, as well as a specific part of Pat’s post in which he ranted against critics, have long since been wiped clean. But the basic gist of it was that critics — in this case those who criticize selfish-help gurus — do NOT create value and in many cases are *incapable* of creating value, so they have no recourse except to sit around and hate on the good folks who practically spew value out of every orifice. (Well, Pat didn’t quite put it that way; I took a few liberties.)

      Jeff Walker’s advice to “ignore the critics” and “forgive” arguably represents a slightly higher and more mature approach than Pat’s tack last year – and, as noted, a more literate one than Filsaime’s much more recent argument – but I hope that Jesus H. Christ or whoever will forgive me if I say that Walker’s path looks to me like a faux “high road.” I am not implying that critics are totally immune to representing themselves as taking the “high road” either; we all do it at one time or another. (Whether we are fighting “the good fight” here or not is something about which reasonable people can disagree.)

      Walker and Filsaime (and to a certain extent Pat O) tried to bring it all back down to whether or not one is creating value. Pat at least argued that “value” is in the eye of the beholder, and to a large extent I agree with him on that one point.

      But hundreds of folks apparently find value in the discussion here on Salty’s blog. That can’t be real good for the IM scammers, no matter how much they try to ignore it.

    3. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer,

      just look at this one comment on his blog post (that proves the point SD has been making in his last… i dunno 50,000 posts?):

      (from one of Jeff’s PLF3 customers)

      “WOW … Jeff you must have been following my day. Have been attacked by everyone from an affiliate right on through to a family member. In July when I ordered PLF3 I had just fractured my right foot and was facing surgery. Since July I have had to move half way across the country, now face another 6 weeks therapy on this foot. Through this process could no longer work with my one on one clients or do all the seminars and workshops with some amazing athletes and performers throughout the summer and fall.
      Challenging 4 months.

      With all that has happened I have become so far behind in the course but I remember you telling us if it takes your last dollar get to the conference. In the last 3 months so many people have told me to just give it up – get a survival job. It is not in my nature.

      Having been in the media for years, I refuse to get a TV – manufactured consent.

      (then he goes on blah blah blah boring boring blah comment)”

      Can someone please reach through the fabric of the interwebz and kick this guy in the nuts? Has there ever been a more perfect example of a sheeple?


      1. @Bohica, I’m just now working my way through the comments, and I saw that one too.

        And take a look at the comment that immediately followed the one you quoted, in which a woman named Gail Fay concludes with this rousing motivational bit: “Just call me a loser and I’ll prove that I’m an achiever!”

        I am not calling her a loser, but I for one would like to see real proof that she is an achiever as a result of the works of Jeff Walker et al. Judging by her web site, she certainly seems to be getting her *inspiration* from the IM hucksters. But that doesn’t mean she is actually successful or that she has “achieved” anything except the creation of a web site with advice on how to build an online business. Supposedly she is a winner of the 2000 Australian Achiever Awards, whatever that means. On the “About” page she has a short and essentially meaningless video and a promise that she will add her story “soon.”

        If I roll my eyes any further back in my head I’m afraid they’re going to get stuck there, and then I’ll be blind as a Russian wish dolly. (Yes, I know I’ve used that one before, but it seemed appropriate somehow.)

    4. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer, Here is something I learned from dr. Seligman looks funny in this picture, but I guess has done some research about what Fluff Walker is talking of:

      dr. Seligman says:

      “However, optimism isn’t always best. Seligman says a pilot, for example, shouldn’t be “optimistic” the wings of his plane won’t ice up and fail to de-ice them before a flight. And, Seligman points out that depressed people actually have a more accurate perception of reality than optimistic people (That sort of sucks if you think about it.). Pessimism is useful because it forces us to confront situations where we really have no effectiveness and change course. (Relentlessly optimistic people seem to be somewhat blinded to reality.)

      Seligman recommends developing a healthy and flexible optimism. Doing so should allow a person to live a fuller and richer life.”

      I took from this site:

      but i know the book and know what he has said is right. I like this part a lot and want to show to Fluff Walker:

      (Relentlessly optimistic people seem to be somewhat blinded to reality.)

      1. @Jack,

        “Relentlessly optimistic people seem to be somewhat blinded to reality” – like maybe the reality that they maybe should not be telling some random stranger the remaining balance on their credit card?

    5. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer,

      It’s almost like an intelligence test. The people who are stupid enough to listen to the bile and hatred are not intelligent enough to be your clients.

      What Walker [[not texas ranger]] “fails” to realize is that the “test” of intelligence comes after hearing irrefutable proof that they [[clients]] were being deceived.

      What may appear as “hate and bile” [[to him and his flock of wannabe Proteges..NOT clients]], is actually contempt and disgust for the way they [[clients]] were deceived in the first place.

      Walkers [[not texas ranger]] attempt at “dime store” psychology is as transparent as a parent saying vacuuming is fun…don’t do it when I am not home [[sure I fell for it once…but ONLY ONCE!..okay twice]]. It has to be one of the poorest attempts at “reverse psychology” I have seen to date [[and those who don’t see that, really don’t have the intelligence to understand my post {sic}]].

      Walker [[not texas ranger]] doesn’t even seem to grasp the dynamics of “reverse psychology”. If this was a struggle of “he said she said”, with only anecdotal/subjective evidence from either side, it could be deemed as appropriate. When something has been “objectified” [[in this case]] as fraud by Walker [[not texas ranger]] and Jenkins himself [[ie: Video Boss]], it just ends up taking on an air of their own self-righteousness. No amount of “reverse psychology” can alter that fact.

      Regardless, people can now see both sides of the story, and if they choose to take sides and follow anyone, that’s their choice. They could also choose to take the lead, and disseminate the information and utilize it to benefit themselves, rather then those it may otherwise benefit.

    6. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer,

      The war against the current Syndicate members can be easily won through education.

      Some of the Droid’s best posts dive into the lack of credentials of internet marketers. The Droid has pointed out:

      -> that many “experts” are simply self-proclaimed
      -> many internet marketers who sell you “secret methods” haven’t successfully employed the methods themselves
      -> most internet marketing gurus masquerade behind the term “marketer” because it sounds better than internet salesperson

      (Which is not to say there’s something wrong with salespeople.)

      Knocking a guru down with the pummel stick of truth and then shattering his pedestal with a fact hasmmer is the best way to keep him from placing himself on it.

      But . . .

      For every one you knock down there are ten waiting in line to jump up and sell the same unicorn.

      The real problem is . . .

      Those waiting in line know what they plan to do is a scam and they’ll do it anyway.

      There are people reading this blog right now that would use some of the tactics we’re railing against if they thought they could turn a quick buck. Some may need to make a lot of money to justify it, some may need to spread a small cost among thousands to feel okay about it. But don’t doubt the power of the dollar to bend the ethical bar.

      As most of us have concluded that we’ll never stop the flow of snake oil or the snakes who sell it. All we can do is scream, “Hey, that’s snake oil! There’s a one in twenty million shot that drinking it will cure your ulcer or grow your hair back or make you rich.”

      And even then some folks will reply, “So you’re saying there’s a chance . . .”

        1. @michael webster,

          “However, what this group is doing well is making fun the pretensions of these IM marketers, taking away their apparent authority. That will work very well.”

          This just happens to be Salty’s specialty, and we can all add some icing to that cake. Jeff Walker, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

          1. @Carlos, satire has always been the most effective way to deflate liars. It is far more effective to strip the liar of his or her authoritative status than to engage with them on a fact finding mission.

            My one concern with the SD mission is that currently it is really too much on shock value and not enough on cruel satire.

            Cruelty will pin the wings of fraud tighter than energetic outbursts of profanity.

            1. @michael webster, can you write some examples and post them here? Please start with Jeff Walker, thanks!

    7. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer

      His post is better written than MF’s for sure, but I just looked through 171 comments and didn’t see a single negative one or even something that said “Great post, but I don’t agree with this one little point”.

      I highly doubt there hasn’t been a single critical comment left, so it appears that he isn’t approving them. Which completely kills any credibility the post might have had in my mind.

      1. @Anonymous Bastard

        Funny, I added a post asking about why there was an overabundance of positive comments but it hasn’t been approved yet. And some after it have.

        It wasn’t even offensive, it was just asking about why there were no negative comments or criticisms.

        I guess JW isn’t as open and honest as he’d like people to think.

    8. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer,

      Here it is again with some minor revisions:

      “1. Always protect your [con-man]. If people are tearing [him] down, then you need to avoid them. This can be tough if it’s your family, but you need to set boundaries. You need to create distance. And if your friends are tearing [your con-man scammer] down, it’s time to find some new friends [who have never heard of your con-man/scammer].

      2. If you’re getting attacked by critics (who usually have [experience being screwed over by con-men or abject scammers themselves which is why they’re criticizing them]), then the best answer is usually to ignore them. Don’t visit the places they hang out. It’s that simple. In general, the people listening to them are not [going to be your best victims/suckers].

      It’s almost like a [sucker] test. The people who are [smart] enough to listen to the [true stories of being scammed and conned] are not [stupid] enough to be your [suckers].

      Read that last paragraph again… it’s important [to me, your friendly con-man/scammer].”

      Ah, makes much more sense now.

    9. @Jeff Walker is a Scammer,

      How horrible of people these self-help marketers are when they tow their common line telling people to distance themselves from their family and friends.

      You should NEVER distance yourself from your family and those who care about you and those who you care about.

      I’d go to the end of the world to protect my family and my people. I can derive an endless source of willpower for anything from that notion.

      But those who think they can derive an endless source of willpower from a stack of dollars in front of them while throwing their family in a garbage can, are twisted beyond help.

  26. “Those ass wholes are mixing in half-truths with blatant lies meant to manipulate people.”

    The personally developing selfish help industry is full of bullshit artists who tell so many lies that they begin to believe them and then live them and wonder why they come unstuck eventually….like now!

  27. Glad to see Michael Young Esq revealing the root of the problem. Clearly SD should have just called Mike Filsaime and interviewed him to “get the facts.”

        1. @Cosmic Connie, I agree with Jack’s point that Mr. Webster was only just trying to re-emphasize the Unicorn Army Point.

          1. @Luther, Got it. I did notice that someone had given Unicorn Army’s comment a negative vote, though, so I thought I would put in my two-cents’ worth. Carry on!

            1. @Cosmic Connie, Even though I agreed with Jack’s point about Mr. Webster just trying to re-emphasize the Unicorn Army point, I think you also have many good points. I just wanted to make that point, also.

      1. @michael webster, it doesn’t just “look like” shilling for the client… that’s what it is.

        A Salty Droid interview of Mike Filsaime would be pretty damn funny, but I don’t think Mike’s going to take that call.

        @Cosmic Connie, I’m used to it. Maybe I should paint myself blue so the snark comes through better?

  28. Syndicate Score Card


    – reputation destroyed. Guys, we have you all on tape selling out your partners, lying, disrespecting customers. Come on. It’s over and you know it. Any of us who are still talking to you don’t trust you. You can hear the suspicion in our voice when we talk to you. We will never trust any of your with our data or our money. Surely you must understand that.

    Individual Con Men Defeated:

    – Perry Belcher

    We documented his scams and lies. He went underground.

    – Mike Filsaime

    We documented his scams and lies. He demonstrated his village-idiocy with his absolutely inept damage control attempt (proving he’s a fraud in case you didn’t already notice). He hasn’t gone underground yet, but he’s obviously beyond repair at this point.

    Con Men in the Balance:

    – Jeff Walker

    His reply to Salty was actually really good advice, intelligent, well-written. But it’s written as if we don’t have recordings proving his lies and duplicity. A solid attempt but so fundamentally flawed that it proves his fundamental lack of the most basic marketing skills. (“Get everyone to blast for you” is not a unique or brilliant method, moron. It doesn’t make you special.) He must really think we’re all stupid. Go ahead Jeff. Keep ignoring reality. Let us know how that works out for you.

    – Andy Jenkins

    His Kajabi launch happened as if the world didn’t know what a lying scumbag he is. Is anyone going to trust their data on his servers? You guys lied to us about so many other things. How do we know you’re not going to steal our marketing, sell our lists, spy on what we’re doing, and steal our customers? We don’t.

    And that’s why you guys are done. This shit isn’t going away. And you know that people on the inside are dishing up more about you every day (you know this is true but you deny it in yet another pathetic attempt at influencing the narrative). Everyone around you is terrified and you guys don’t have the human decency of giving your employees a graceful exit. You will let everyone go down with you just like JAR. That’s how sociopathic you are.

  29. Reading Jeff Walker’s statement reminds me more of somebody trying desperately to appear above any criticism than Filsaime’s did – at least Moneybags Mike pseudo confessed to ripping people off.

    As a side point, it’s always interesting to go through comments on Internet Marketing blogs to see the kind of stuff their “clients” produce – I’m sure everybody would be shocked to see 99.9% are “make money online” or other such garbage.

    I weep for humanity sometimes.

  30. So… the miraculous Kajabi has been released!

    so many features for a measly $99 a MONTH… for life!

    it sounds so special… it sounds like… get ready.. Blog software with a membership plugin… you can’t get that just anywhere, at just any price… hell no!

    why, a WordPress blog would cost you… nothing. hosting $6 a month, and membership plugin maybe a one time cost of $25 to $100

    1. @Chris, The big advantage of Kajabi is that Andy Jenkins, who is your competitor, gets to see all your private business data and potentially act on it for his own gain. Oh, wait, that’s not an advantage. Never mind.

  31. In reply to @Cosmic Connie and @Jeff Walker is a Scammer above,

    I think defining the value of information products (and therefore what may be considered a ‘fair’ price for them) is a key issue in how things progress.

    Cosmic Connie, I very respectfully disagree with you when you say ‘Walker and Filsaime (and to a certain extent Pat O) tried to bring it all back down to whether or not one is creating value. Pat at least argued that “value” is in the eye of the beholder, and to a large extent I agree with him on that one point.’

    With business building products, which is what the Syndicate are delivering, the definition of value is, I think, quite an easy one. It’s nothing to do with the eye of the beholder, instead it’s a straight mathematical calculation. It’s the return on investment that customers achieve – ie the extra income a customer receives as a result of buying a particular information product.

    And as we know how few people actually consume and implement the information products they buy (often because they don’t have up-and-running and viable businesses that they can apply an information product to), the average return on investment is probably negative for the majority.

    That’s why I think one of our goals in this endeavor should be to help people realize that the current $1,997 price point on so many products is excessive and to get them to ridicule marketers who want to charge such outrageous prices.

    It was an eye-opener to hear Andy Jenkins putting a value of $497 on Video Boss and then managing to persuade himself that of course it was worth a lot more.

    No wonder Jeff Walker wanted him to bump the price up. If one of the ‘major’ players priced at a more reasonable level, then the ability of all the other players to charge four times that amount would be severely compromised.

    How else do we bring a little more sanity to this market? Identifying the people who are behaving non-ethically is important so that people stop trusting them and stop buying from them. And this blog is doing fantastic work on that score.

    I think it’s also important to look at what’s missing from the current business education of so many internet marketers.

    I’m amazed at how little focus there is on business planning in internet marketing. How to set objectives, how to decide on strategies and tactics and then how to assess progress needn’t be complicated and could help pull people out of the endless product buying trance they have been put into by the Syndicate and others.

    If people were given basic information about market lifecycles and the difference between a new market and a mature one, then they would realize that Eben Pagan got his position from being a first mover in a new market, and suggesting that people may be able to match his income is dishonest when so many markets on the internet are incredibly competitive, crowded and close to being mature.

    And it’s definitely time to start providing people with strategies for educating themselves so they are helped to understand how to choose and then implement information that can really help them. I don’t see anyone doing that at the moment.

    1. @Disillusioned Marketer, Excellent points. You are right about the measurable results (or lack thereof) in regard to the Syndicants and their buddies, who make very specific claims about the efficacy of their overpriced products. They claim to sell business building tools, when it is apparent that the only businesses they are concerned with building are their own.

      As usual, however, I was more focused (at least in my mind, if not in my actual comment) on the more abstractly motivational hucksters — the New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality sorts who promise miracles and wonders and a happier and more fulfilling life, but don’t make any specific claims. Many people apparently do find value of some kind in their works, if for no other reason than that the flowery words make them feel better for a while. On occasion, perhaps, some folks are actually motivated to do something to improve their lives, if only marginally and for a little while. I think that is really what I meant by “value.” And on that point I do believe value is in the eye of the beholder, and it isn’t up to me to determine whether a given guru’s work is valuable or not to someone else.

      But now that I think of it, since even some of the more airy-fairy New-Wage gurus sell advice on how to become wealthy, attract money, etc., they certainly bear closer scrutiny too. I know of several New-Wage hucksters who claim they have created millionaires, that other folks have become rich by using their advice. But they don’t ever really show us any of those millionaires.

      Bringing it back to my original remark, what struck me as the common ground that Pat, et al. has with people such as Filsaime and Walker is the claim that they are “creating value” — as if that excuses any sort of boorish or unethical behavior (even if the claim were true). “Creating value” is the new absolution, apparently.

      1. @Cosmic Connie,

        Good point…

        It’s like the idea of “economic growth”
        Evrythings good as long as there’s “economic growth”

        But what if the middle class spending power declines?

        Never mind… economic growth is king!

        Yeah… if you own the production.

    2. @Disillusioned Marketer, Excellent points and one reminder:

      AJ said Video Boss is not the “business building products” but wanted to say it is a “business in a box”

  32. Just saw Kern’s latest video. Seems like he is trying to minimize or re-position this blog is irrelevant. I think his message has a strong link to this blog. He’s definitely taken a hit. Watch how he goes at length to break down the validity of sources of messages. Go to church Salty so you can make it on that list.

    1. @Renaldo, the video beginning with the big “K” reminds me of the way scientology makes their videos.

  33. Yep. Kern is “advising” people not to listen to, ahem, “negative” stuff. Pretty obvious intent, of course. He doesn’t mention this blog outright, but then, he doesn’t have to. Will people see through it? More importantly, will they continue to give him their MasterCard number for more high priced pseudo-surfer-talk?

  34. Hi there
    I only just found your blog.
    I was searching for Mike Filsaime is he a con man
    I have managed to get myself on his mailing list a few days ago and my inbox is full.
    I do feel sorry for all the people who have been conned by these people but it is easy to be conned
    I have been trying to sell over the internet and I am honest but there comes a point where you want more information
    to learn more get better at it so to speak
    I was not taken in because there is something creepy about this man and I have only seen his picture.
    It was the 1960’s embroidered shirt that even in the 1960’s was only worn by men of dodgy sexual charator or you grandad on a night out dancing at the old Palli

    then the over the top self promotion

    the sad thing is not only do they rip people off but they make it so much harder for the good guys

    I bought a package that was very good, simple did what it said on the box cost me a less than £20 I could have found all the info for free but the time it saved me was worth the money

    the woman I bought this from has now changed how she sell her products and offers a monthly option and upsell and etc etc
    I’m not saying her stuff is still not good just that I think that she has changed because to stay in the game she has had to do the same as the model the con men use

    very sad

  35. Hi Everyone,
    I just want to share with you that Mike Filsaime ripped me off for $1997. I bought Proft Platform Plug In system that didn’t work. After corresponding with his support staff they offered me a partial refund of $100. What a joke? I sent to Mike a registered letter 6 weeks ago demanding a refund…. and you guessed it – NO REPLY and NO REFUND. He doesn’t know what a professional means. Any suggestions to where to complain? There must be some authorities with the power to nail the internet marketing scum con artists like Mike Filsaime.
    Very disapointed,

    1. @Joanna, Dispute the charge with you’re credit card company, PayPal or however you paid for it.

      four simple words…

      “Goods not as advertised”

    2. @Joanna ::

      Hey Gnome :: refund Joanna’s money right this second before I make a federal fucking case out of it.

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  38. You little beauty just got my refund from Mike for $1200, and best part he probably does not know yet as charges were reversed. I know this does not help others at this point but if you requested a refund within the refund guarantee period take the matter up with your bank and pursue Mastercard/Visa and Paypal you still could get some joy or raise red flags.

    I have had my refund credited to my account as Mike failed to respond to a request from Paypal within 11 days.

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    I don’t think replacing a backhoe bucket with an iPhone will work very well. Do you have video showing this backhoe hack in use?

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