Boiled Gnome

... "the truth"

You know I hate me some gnomes :: the hats :: the tiny dumb dancing :: the chirp chirp singing … and of course the fucking scamming. Maybe it’s not fair to judge all gnomes based on my limited experience with them :: but so what … I don’t have to be fair to gnomes. Fuck you gnomes :: go away and fix some stuff with your dumb little tool sacks.

The Gnome I know is in The Syndicate :: has terrible ideas for family vacations :: has anachronistic disrespect for the ladies :: and told his “customers” that John Paul Raygoza was The Truth.

As it turns out :: and as everyone always knew :: John Paul Raygoza is more like The Fucking Disaster than he is like The Truth … so say we all. When recent investigations revealed that Mike Filsaime had been inside of John Paul Raygoza’s PushTraffic boiler room {prolly tiny dumb dancing} :: I confronted him about it …

“WTF Gnome?”

… was the basically of what I said.

“I wish I’d never met John Paul Raygoza :: he sucks a big ol’ bag of donkey dicks … let me answer for myself.”

… was the basically of what he said back.

Hmmm. Absolutely not! Having a chance to respond is out of the question :: because as The Gnome told the worlds back in 2010 …

“Jason Jones is a sad human being and I pitty him. I will deal with him soon. Jason Jones will finally hear from me. Now go run to his hate blog and warn him about me. I will expose him for the low life he his. Go now minion, go run to your powerful OZ. Jason Jones, you reading this. Get your costume on and make your post. It’s my turn. A sad human being will now be seen for what he is.”

It must suck to be that wrong :: almost enough to make a gnome remove his hat.

So brace yourselves :: surprising me not least … Mike Filsaime and Jason Jones having an on the record discussion about the hazards and harms of using boiler rooms to monetize your Internet Marketing list.

{in six acts … begin}


Act I — The First Act

… hello instant internet millionaire …

Frank Kern :: Jeremy Johnson :: Instant Internet Empires … and the rest is history.


Act II — “Profit Centers”

… telemarketing internet marketing …

Biz Op vs. IM {fake worlds … fake distinctions} :: Don Lapre’s evil spawn don’t know Yanik Silver {omg!} … it’s like the wild wild west {except without the 80% of productive citizens trying to do right by others}.


Act III — Kyle Kirchbaum’s Overflow

… try and try again …

His name was Kyle and he took my boiler room virginity not gently :: Ivy Capital :: Utah is getting the blacks out of the ghettos :: I’m going to create my own call center like Russell Brunson :: New York’s poor quality people … just a little bit of chaos and then Glengarry Glen Ross.


Act IV — Making A Gnome Say Wow

… smelling like utah …

The trained sharks of the Great Salt Lake :: Ford and Toyota don’t franchise boiler rooms :: uncontrollable monsters destroying Debbie :: Armand Morin has Big Seminars for John Paul Raygoza :: reciprocating with The Truth … the smell of profits over customers.


Act V — Repressing Dissent

… no complaining complainers …

Things would be completely different today :: let’s not talk about our problems :: Jason won’t stop clicking his pen {idiot!} :: Yelp reviewing Russell Brunson’s suckatude :: where to point the finger :: the silence of the Warrior Forum :: The Salty Droid deletion policy … the fake robot is such a meany pants.


Act VI — Still Boiling After All These Years

… prospering with prosper …

“Shame on you” everyone but Prosper :: the no llama drama boiler room :: insisting on fire :: upsells starting at $2500 :: the Utah kids of Mike Filsaime coaching :: 25% fulfillment — 25% lead gen — 50% Prosper :: it’s not important where the money goes :: who’s coaching the coaches? :: Prosper helps me monetize helping you monetize :: going to PMI for higher DPL {dollar per lead} :: maybe the motherfucking mothership :: waterboarding is not just for terrorists anymore :: knowing Michael Savage very well … The Tax Club’s empire of suck.


{finis}

Not talking about boiler rooms is not helping anyone but the boiler rooms. Is criminally agressive telemarketing the only way to succeed at Internet Marketing? Are you going to quit your day job to become nothing more than a shit and sin lined tube for funneling  senior citizens into a people grinding machine? Ask your make money guru about it today :: because The Truth is that you’re being lied to about what it means :: and what it takes :: to be an “Internet Marketer”.

There can be changes :: or there can be fights … y’all decide.

>> bleep bloop

114 thoughts on “Boiled Gnome”

  1. Droid….
    I wish I had the time to join you and become like your sidekick at this. You know, Luke Skywalker to your R2-FU. Except less gay and less incestuous. More Obi-Wan Kenobi really. There I said it. It could happen…

  2. Why, oh, why did I listen to this right before going to bed?

    Nightmares and gnome terrors will surely ensue…

    So much for unicorn dreams.

    1. @zipnar,

      You were right about the nightmares. I dreamed I was on a bus trip with these douchebags, and when Donna Fox did the roll call after a sightseeing stop, two people were missing: Harlan Kilstein and a little boy. Everyone panicked cause we forgot that it’s Paulie Sabol who’s the convicted child molester, not Harlan. A couple minutes later, though, the unharmed boy returned – holding hands with Harlan. Harlan, get out of my nightmares and off my LinkedIn groups!

      1. @Killed Link,

        It’s not killed; it’s just not working right. If you “view source,” the current page says, “HLS is owned and operated by Omar Martin, and his wife Melinda since early 2009,” whereas your Wayback page said, “The founders of HLS are Mike Filsaime and Omar Martin.”

        1. @Lanna, I found out about that Omar Martin is a self-proclaimed true American Hero, which is why we see that he used the tragedy from 9-11 as part of the copy for his 4-day FIRE SALE:
          http://omar-martin.com/firesale/

          “Fact Number One
          I am a full time internet marketer that works from home and makes over 10k per month selling digital products online. I’m also Mike Filsaime’s National Sales Manager. I used to be a New York City Fire Department (FDNY) paramedic until he lost my partner on 9-11-01.

          Then I became a door to door salesman and went on to open multiple sales offices and make a fortune in sales. A couple of years ago I started “selling” online and the rest is history! Over the past year I have built quite the little internet empire and currently work from my home in sunny Florida.”

          No, it’s not possible for us to make it up like this.

          1. @Jack,

            I’m sure it’s just poor usage and versioning artifacts, but I like the idea that Omar is a “that,” not a “who.” And that Mike Filsaime lost an FDNY paramedic or EMT on 9-11-01. Were they buddying up first responders with Subaru salesmen or what?

  3. Here’re my takeaways from this interview:
    1. Filsaime will continue to use the Internet to market his wares.  
    1A.  He will then continue his quest for a “legit telemarketing” (disregard oxymoron) organization to “follow up.” Then when some magical number of complaint(s) hit his desk he’ll fire that outfit and move on to the next legit telemarketing organization. 
    2.  See Takeaways 1 and 1A

  4. I was actually enjoying the conversion…until Act VI. Thanks for validating my suspicions about the coaching industry – $2500 for someone to keep you accountable, jeez.

    1. @Clark,

      That’s a typo. With Filsaime, you can be pretty sure that you won’t be enjoying any type of conversion.

    2. @Clark, No kidding. I was actually kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt – thinking maybe he was genuinely starting to come away from the dark side- until he started blandly justifying selling $2,500 an hour ‘coaching packages’ under his name using material he didn’t even create presented by kids paid $10 an hour- who he’s never even bothered to listen in on! Un-fucking-believable!

      1. @Wanderlost, I think it was $2500 for a coaching ** package **, not per hour. Could be wrong but pretty sure I’m not. Still expensive considering the “coaches” doing the actual training, but…

  5. I was actually enjoying the conversation…until Act VI. Thanks for validating my suspicions about the coaching industry – $2500 for someone to keep you accountable, jeez.

  6. Now all people can have their own personalized call-center follow up to get people the $10/hr coaches for $2500+. According to mr. Ambrosio at WF when people get “The Franchise Model Secret” for their own person “make money” sales funnel to sell “how to make money online” things:

    “Sending the leads to the call center is NOT automatic. You have to turn the feature on in your admin area, plus fill out and fax an agreement and a W-9.

    What that means is, the leads are yours. You elect whether or not you send them to the call center..

    I am not sure about actual commissions because there are multiple offers the call center presents”

    1. @Jack,

      Wait, you’ve found a product that even Harlan Kilstein can’t endorse? Talk about delivering value.

  7. Droid I agree that call centers are criminal organizations preying on on people but I wish you had asked him this question after all your questions had been asked.

    Mike why do you sell make money online FRAUDUCTS to begin with?

    Droid I’ll bet more millions are stolen from honest people at $47 -$97 price points than at $2500 price points

    No front end frauducsts no leads for call centers

    Not sure what you mean about changes Droid…the only change that needs to be happen is guys like Mike Filsaime need to stop selling make money online frauducts

    Stealing is stealing regardless of price

    Hearing that interview where Filscam talks about the ‘internet marketing industry’ and his ‘brands’…acting like he is a REAL businessman working in a real industry

    Here’s Mikes business plan:

    step 1 create & sell vast amounts of cheaply priced plausible sounding money making ideas to unsuspecting people using every BS pressure tactic we can get away with

    step 2- forward leads to a boiler room where we sell them ‘coaching’ at whatever price we can pry from them

    Step 3 – In the course of doing step 1 accumulate email opt ins and sell other make money online scammers step 1

    Droid what do you mean by change?

    1. @Shit Storm ::

      I was thinking that too … What gives him the right to sell “make money” products when the only way he ever made ANY money was by selling “make money” products?

      … Starting in 2002 from an FTC nuked “make money” Irwin Kern program! WTF!!!??? Talk about being qualified.

      I mean, I am grateful that Jason Jones exposes the fact that Gnome & his minions are knowingly acting in criminal fashion with their Utahrded {Human} Boiling Rooms … but at a deeper level, this whole “industry” upon which he’s built his “I’m still innocent” rationale is actually “Bull shit all the way down.

      Biz Op vs. IM? vs. MLM? vs. FICO-score-gang-rape?

      Really filsame??? You really believe in that gnome-sized brain of yours that these are a distinctions?

      Even if any of the scam cults were using completely “above board” transparent sales tactics …

      … (which they of course couldn’t since what they do is straight fraud) …

      The fact remains that choad-gnomes like Filsame ARE CHARGING {BIG} MONEY TO TEACH YOU TO DO THINGS THAT THEY THEMSELVES HAVE NEVER DONE & DO NOT HAVE THE CAPABILITY OF DOING!!!

      Fuck, it pisses me off.

      I wish at the end of the interview Jason Jones would have started boiler rooming Filsame and got all his credit cards maxed out & got him to take out a second mortgage on his mama’s home or something.

      In conclusion, allow me to deliver this open letter to Internet Marketing (which is the same as Biz Op which is the same as Get Rich Quick which is the same as MLM which is the same as …)

      Fake secretary Debbie, since I know you’re not busy, please take a letter:

      Dear Internet Marketing,

      There is a major vacuum of real business being conducted in the USA economiez thanks to the unicorn dreams you (and the Fed & the Universities) are peddling …

      … Please cease & desist your valueless activities and get a real job building real things made in the USA or something …

      … or just feel free to choke on your lies & die a painful, embarassing, drawn out death – hopefully recorded & uploaded to Youtube for all to enjoy.

      Sincerely,
      -Doctor Mario

      1. @Shit Storm & @Doctor Mario

        You guys are not wrong.

        But I personally feel that @SD sufficiently p0wned all over Mike/gnome by the end of the call when it got around to this bit:

        In Act VI
        SD: “So… how much do the people that do the actual coaching get paid?
        Mike: ” … I don’t know.”
        SD: “So, what if I told you it was less than $10 an hour?”
        Mike: ” …”
        SD: “So that’s what your customers are actually getting, right? Is this coaching. It’s not from Mike Filsaime, Internet Guru. It’s from um Utah Kid makin’ um $10 an hour. Right. So that’s what the Mike Filsaime coaching which starts at $2500 and goes up to we’re-not-sure-what um. That’s what they’re getting this $2550.”

        [ Note–I didn’t get the quoting exactly verbatim around that last sentence, but I believe the rest of it is.–Wyrd]

        And a bit further on in the call, it’s revealed that the curriculum is actually Prosper’s anyway. Now, even if “product” isn’t a plain, simple frauduct–even if the curriculum isn’t crap–even if it’s real, valuable info like the kind you could get from a library book on marketing–and even if the “coach” doesn’t suck and does provide some form of limited value in the way of accountability, it’s still a bait and switch and/or false advertising to lure people onto the phone with promises of Mike Filsaime coaching that turns out to just be Prosper coaching.


        Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @Shit Storm & @Doctor Mario ::

      Well :: everyone already knows my opinion about the whole of “make money online” being a scammy fucking scam … including and especially Mike and the other Syndicate riffraff. Their response to those accusations has basically been :: “go fuck yourself we’ll do whatever we want … good luck trying to stop us all on your lonesome.”

      They’re going to keep doing it … I’m going to keep lobbying anyone who will listen to try and help me stop it. So there’s really nothing to talk about … old fashioned impasse.

      But on boiler rooms there is still room for discussion :: many people who are not fake robots also agree that the boiler rooms are way too far … even some people who are full on criminals. Boiler rooms do the biggest damage :: to the softest targets :: and represent a huge percentage of total scam dollars collected each year. Those dollars prop up a corrupt regime in Utah that has created a no-enforcement zone for scammers of every shape … including the world’s largest and most depressing pyramid scams.

      So a conversation about boiler rooms needs to be had among the people who hate this blog … that conversation just got started.

      1. @SD :: Do you feel like it’s possible for them (i.e. the Syndicate Trade Union) to “clean up” their scammy fucking scam “business” model and actually stop using boiler rooms?

        Or are boilers rooms a necessity for ongoing sustainability of Scamsville’s cashflow of suck?

        I always wonder whether the whole IM/MMO “industry” would collapse w/o Tele-Robbery Centers like they like out there in the “industry” state.

  8. Mike,

    They preyed on your scam leads because they knew you did as well

    They lied to your scam leads because they knew you did as well

    They showed no compassion to your scam leads because they knew you didn’t care about them one bit

    Here’s a novel idea…if your so smart at making money online with your tactics…use it in a real industry and get rich that way and stop this scam business you have

    You know why you don’t do that…because you know and every other legit businessman knows your ‘educational products’ don’t FUCKING WORK

    You do what you do because this is all your talentless ass can do to make big money

    Why would anyone ‘sell’ an ‘education’ course then send that lead to someone to sell ‘coaching’ they had no hand in developing or put any effort into to monitoring this coaching.

    To pretend that this is anywhere near a legit business model is laughable

    What really bothered me thru the whole conversation was how you act like you’ve been victimized by these call centers…you are not the victim

    You are the criminal who hunts for down on their luck individuals who are prone to false promises

    You are nothing more than a two bit hustler who before this $$$$$ run made less than 50k selling Hyundai’s

    You were short, bald and broke…must have killed you living on LI being dead broke

    Now you’re short, bald and have a black heart…and are very soon going to end up broke again and in a jail cell

    …because that’s where criminals end up

    You gotta be the dumbest fuck to do that call

    1. @Shit Storm, I agree he was completely ignorant to do that call. But I think it also gives some insight into how stressed these guys are right now. The heat is on!

    2. @Shit Storm,
      One of the most succicnt and life affirming replys I have ever read here.

      thank you

  9. That Mike Feelthesame sure sounds harmless enough..

    Except, less than 24 hours ago he promoted Anik Singals latest $997 frauduct to his mailing list.

    Are boiler rooms managing your “newsletter” too Mike?

  10. I imagine if the bot was more aggressive, the gnome would have hung up and ran for cover. He needed crucified on that call though.

    1. @Donk ::

      Well they talked for three hours :: Jason said the things that needed to be said … but the on the record part of the discussion was mostly limited to boiler rooms by mutual agreement.

      And that was an interview to get things on the record and learn things :: not a debate … I don’t think anyone should be wondering who’d win a debate.

      1. @SD, There is no doubt in my mind. I just don’t think he would hang with ya long enough to do the damage.

      2. @SD, so often (and this comment was an example) I’d like to vote your comments up… But it’s not needed or allowed. Thanks again for all the time you spend on this.

  11. I’m definitely not a fan of fighting…so I’ll go with changes. Unless the changes involve cauliflower in any way. Just tell me what I can do to help.

    1. @jacqui,

      I say with all due respect…there’s no acceptable change other than these fraudsters COMPLETELY stopping their predatory scamming

      …and they’re not stopping without a serious fight

      Guys like Mike Filsaime makes over a million dollars…you think he is gonna go back to selling Hyundai’s for 50k a year?

      Selling these make money products to unsuspecting people is BIG business

      This ends in indictments or it doesn’t end

      …the idea they get to walk away from all the lives they ruined is unacceptable

      1. @Anonymous/Shit Storm,

        Obviously, I agree that all predatory scamming should cease and that those responsible for it should be held accountable for their actions.

        That’s why I’m a supporter of this blog and offered to do anything I can to help.

        I just meant that if some changes are necessary to do even more…I’m all for them too.

  12. How can somebody not go to trust the Prosper-people that tell me on their main-page that there are “Articles” (which also some people call “Press Releases”) “found on”…

    abc, Wallstreet Select, Money show – and also oh so many more…

    http://finance.abc7chicago.com/abclocal.wls/news/read?GUID=15478445
    http://investor.wallstreetselect.com/wss/news/read?GUID=15478445
    http://stocks.moneyshow.com/intershow.moneyshow/news/read?GUID=15478445

    Look it can’t be like they lied to us about calling a Press Release an “Article found on” right…right?

    Apparently Forbes is now putting their online magazine on the Prosper website now (maybe for saving on hosting-fees?)
    http://www.prospering.com/about-us/company-news/forbes_in_recognition.php

  13. I worked with a few floors many moons ago before having a true understanding of what really happens.

    Anyone that tries to transition from a marketer to running and owning their own sales/coaching floor usually dies a miserable death in this industry. They don’t have the connections and protection unless they are in Utah and in with the circle-jerkers, and usually way understaff themselves and end up passing leads to 2-3 other floors as middlemen (at least that’s how it was back then).

    New floors get pounced on quick if they start making any headway by the usual leaders in an effort to squash competition before it starts. Doesn’t take long for the main floors to know who got that newest big guru launch batch.

    Though it wasn’t mmo, I’ve had my leads shared, hacked, traded, and once I started catching on to what’s what I started putting in spam traps so I would get called if they fell for it. Most did, and I still get fucking calls for complimentary items YEARS later on my own offers lol. It didn’t take long for me to stop the whole process however if done right it CAN be a great business (haven’t seen it done right yet in the bizop space though).

    The way it rolls out isn’t always all that planned collectively, there are a lot of people that TRY to offer a good curriculum/product without any backend bullshit just a good user experience for a fair market price with enough educmacation to fill your hunger for new info on biz structure or how to market et al (al be it there aren’t many – and 99% of the shit out there is your typical WAFO fuck-nut WSO type long form one-button-millions money sweeps and pump/dumps so good luck finding that needle in the scamstacks). Coaching/sales floors will hound these new comer vendors who launch a successful mmo day and night until they get a test batch of leads from them, especially if they haven’t done any of this backend stuff yet.

    Once they get these leads, the first 2-3 batches are obviously important and they hustle hard to prove their worth. They let you listen to calls, help with scripts, help with learning modules, and in a perfect world all this would indeed churn out amazing remote curriculum and coaching and new business people thriving, however we all know that doesn’t happen.

    My experience was years ago and there was at least a bit more QC, However now I wouldn’t touch that model with someone elses dick, it’s filled with young aggressive hustlers doing sales, and noobs following even noober modules to train their customers. Coaches and successful internet marketers don’t work for sales floor teaching noobs how to make millions over the phone and skype.

    Floors are meticulous on targeting their next batches of leads, because they know that a $97-$197 front end with a few upsells x 1000 people are PRIME, and alternatively the $7 or freebie optin lists are shit and floors hate them. Buyer lists in the low 3 digit price points are priority #1 for these guys who hunt for leads. It’s like bloody chickens in a pool of piranha’s when a good new offer launches and they don’t have a sales floor yet.

    Typical rollout:

    * User buys a $7 product or opts into a freebie.

    * User gets emailed until they unsub or upgrade to a no-brainer $47 – $97 where they get profiled.

    * This is their bread/butter – repeat buyer lists filtered down twice, you’re going to buy a lot of shit according to them, they’ll help to make sure.

    * Vendor sends buyer leads to sales floor and sets up webinars and seminars. Sales are made and vendor keeps 20-40%.

    * Vendor also invites guber idiots to his remote and in person events.

    * Vendor takes 30% of whatever other guber idiots sell on the stages or in the webinars (so next time you attend a webinar/seminar with special guest speakers, and h/she starts pitching shit – you know the host is getting a nice cut). I’ve turned down many of these guest speaker gigs at the big shows, actually I tried to take ONE on, told them I don’t want to sell anything I just want to educate people on scams and bad biz practice, response was “My stage time is expensive, you have to sell you can’t just talk about not buying stuff!” – lol so I didn’t do it.

    * If you profiled yourself by filling out any forms during your process before getting to your thank you page when you buy any MMO, they WILL be phoning you (sans those outside of the USA – most floors will filter them because credit and collections are a bitch outside the region).

    I have a few friends that were actually called by the Filthsaime coach crew from mega old leads, and my friends LOL’d while trolling them – best thing you can do is simply waste their time trying to get them to pitch you their biggest package and record the call yourself once you’re acquainted – then string them along. Most of the sales guys are literally on a $13/hour + x% commission gig and they pass off close-to-closed deals to the leaders on the floor literally just like the movie BoilerRoom.

    There is a LOT more shit going on in the top tier/sin-dick-eaters among themselves than any will admit, kinda surprised you got as much out of Mike as you did. I would hate to have friends and or rely on contacts like that, my back would be all scarred and stitched and stabbed up, and I’d still be pretending to smile and forgive, what a life.

    Not sure why I’m ranting on about this but I got nostalgic during the read/audio as I was also suckered into this as a noob vendor in my start up days and taken through the ringer a bit.I want to spit/punch something now and shower again..

    Think what you are doing is fanfuckingtastic Salty, I’ve been promoting you for quite a while in various ways and will continue to do so.

    PS – I read a while back in comments on here somewhere that it would be nice to get the word out about this place with a collective marketing campaign pushing people back here… I would be willing to donate a couple banner sets and graphics/assets in as many sizes as possible for you to give to your readers here (I’m an award winning designer). It is indeed a great way to increase awareness and clicks and you have a pretty damn big base here now. Let me know if you’d like this it’s the least I can do for the endless hurrrdurrr’s you’ve provided and the fear/anxiety you instill into those deserving.

    1. @OldSchool ::

      Very interesting stuff … thanks.

      As for marketing pushes or whatever :: unfortunately everyone in my marketing department killed themselves …

  14. I gotta wonder, what’s the ultimate goal here? Why would Filsaime agree to this recorded interview? Did he just want to present a “I’m innocent, see I got scammed too” position? What’s the end game here Filsaime?

    Any time that I come across something that is being sold through paydotcom, I back off and decide I don’t really need that product after all. There’s no point in feeding the machine.

    1. @Rafael Marquez,

      I’ve pondered this question myself quite a bit. While my temptation was initially to give Mike some credit for stepping up to this “interview,” I realized that is exactly what Mike wants. His end game is nothing more than to make himself look more palatable to the readers here and to get the Droid to ease up on the accelerator actuator lever.

      I keep coming back to the same conclusion that to Mike, this is all about his “reputation” (i.e., Mike feeling better about Mike by basing his self-image on how others view him, not based upon reality or the consequences of his actions.)

      I’ll refrain from the Buddhist psychology rant about ego, but this is narcissism in action.

      He is hoping that this interview will cast him in a more favorable light with the followers of the Droid.

      He is trying to correct the false, unfair light that the Droid has cast on him through this blog and its reach.

      Damn. Too bad that didn’t happen, huh?

      He was probably hoping that this post would turn out differently.

      He was probably expecting to come back here and read a post that went something like this:

      ** Ahem **

      O, hai. It’s the Droid.

      That lame bag’o’skin Jason got Mike “Beloved Son” (angels sing) Filsaime on the phone.

      Because of all the lies and false information on teh interwebs, we used to think that Mike did bad stuff, but Mike explained it all away.

      Mike was soooooo taken advantage of by these lying boiler rooms… over, and over, and over, and over again, even by the boiler room that he built… weird!

      Right? I know!

      MIke figured out that every single experience he has ever had with a boiler room has been a bad one.

      Well, that’s all over, ‘cuz now he only uses a good one that is TOTALLY legit :: For realz :: His reputation is SOOPER important.

      How does he know it’s a good boiler room for realz?

      ‘Cuz when we asked “do they charge $10k for ‘coaching?'” Mike replied, “No not that much.”

      “O, ok. So how much is it then?”

      “Hrmm… humm, um…. huh. They, uh… um, start at…. $2500.”

      Yay! Only (starting at) $2500! Clearly scam free!

      We are sooooo sorriez that we talked bad about him.

      P.S. The water boarding of employees is prolly for their own good anywayz. Business cat says so.

  15. Bravo to Mike for having the balls to talk on the record. He probably sees it as an opportunity to differentiate himself as more legit, but bravo all the same.

    This should be a wakeup call to all the little legit service providers dabbling in IM. After you email your list an affiliate link to some IttyBiz course, IttyBiz uses those buyers to promote a JV with Brian Clark. Brian Clark sends them an affiliate link to Frank Kern, and Frank shares the list with one of those boiler rooms that’s so icky it’s too icky for Mike Filsaime. (I don’t know if those are real relationships, but you see the progression.)

    If IM is a pyramid scheme, Prosper’s at the pinnacle.

    1. @Lanna, Mike needs no “bravo” for his internet marketing pseudo self-exorcism. A “confessional” is supposed to be its own reward, not something that earns frequent flyer miles and high fives.

      If Mike really wants to turn over a new leaf (I’d suggest the entire forest), he needs to get BOTH of his feet off the scam bus.

    2. @Lanna, he does not deserve a bravo but a jail sentence.

    3. @Lanna,

      I have to respectfully disagree with you…vehemently

      Mike Filsaime gets no Bravo for filling in the details on how he ruined lives…which is his version mind you

      Mike Filsaime is a guy who lies for a living so to take his word for any of what he said is a mistake

      If mike is so concerned about the hard core scam tactics used to sell these people coaching…did he call these people up and make them whole again by refunding them

      There is no way these boilers rooms used heavy handed scam tactics to close the people then all of a sudden became GREAT COACHES…they scammed them on the coaching as well

      The COACHING is a scam as well…otherwise why would they USE heavy handed tactics to close?

      Balls are worn by HEROS…Mike Filsaime ruins lives in his business everyday

      Fuck him and every person working for his pathetic company…they design scams to sperate honest people from their savings and show ZERO remorse doing it

      He can give 1000 interviews…he will rise from bed tomorrow morning and continue his scam

      …and even if he stopped tomorrow he will have left a hefty list of ruined lives in his wake

      His victims are Moms, Dads, Brothers, Sisters and Children…real people

      Mike Filsaime sells nightmares…and he doesn’t care who he ruins

      Fuck him and all his accomplices

      1. @Shit Storm et al.,

        A wise fake robot once said, “You can’t beat evil – but you can keep it disorganized and inefficient.” One good way to keep it disorganized is by seeding a “growing sense of mutiny” “to damage and/or undermine the cohesion and effectiveness of this nasty little club of cheater cheater pumpkin eaters.” In The Syndicate’s winner-take-all-of-Debbie’s-dollars fight club where insiders “are afraid to speak for fear of reprisals,” getting a card-carrying, top-tier member like Mike to talk is sure to start a rift.

        This isn’t the first time Mike’s wandered from the fold. He didn’t “understand that the policy was to never mention the robot”, saying in a published interview on another Mike’s blog, “He goes by the name ‘Salty Droid.'” Now Mike accepted the ultimate “‘Hey :: why not shoot yourself in the face?’ offer”: a phone interview with the robot. Let’s watch The Syndicate split itself into pro-gnome and gnome-go-home factions. Thanks, Mike! [Begin slow applause.]

        I welcome your rebuttals, but it seems to me that the most horrific financial damage is happening to the most disadvantaged people via the call centers. The elderly, the sick, the poor and the uneducated people who don’t “have a computer or Internet access at home” and only “‘sort of'” “‘know what a search engine is'” get ripped off during high-pressure sales calls. On the phone calls, suddenly the frauducts cost exactly whatever your credit limit is, and the scared customers get calmed down and upsold. You’ve read the class action filings; the typical person who loses $30k, $50k or $100k is older, has a medical problem and was repeatedly sold, reassured and upsold on the phone.

        Mike doesn’t see anything wrong with what Prosper’s doing, but then Mike approves of family cruises with convicted pedophiles, parties with people the FTC’s fined, and promoting frauducts from future kidnappers. Simply by confirming that he sends his whole goddamn list to a boiler room, though, that should make some more ethically-intact people within the lower tiers of The Syndicate’s pyramid hesitant to promote Syndicate programs to their lists. Mike, thanks for moving Syndicate boiler room use from shadowy rumor to confirmed fact. [Commence golf clap.]

        Another wise fake robot – or maybe the same one, I forget – once said of the jowled one, “If he starts selling his false hope for $50 :: Then his association with me will end. $3000 from the demographic he targets is LUDICROUS. It cannot be justified.” We know that the Prosper-sold, Prosper-developed, Prosper-delivered coaching starts at a ludicrous $2,500. If this interview causes even one less Filsaime fan to waste money on the coaching, then it’s justified. No financial damage is the ideal, but less financial damage is a worthy goal. Mad props to Mike for fucking up your own brand and cutting into Prosper’s profit. [Encore! Encore!]

    1. @Off Topic, Yeah, the Aussie journos appear to have stones, unlike American journalists. They’ve done some seriously good work in exposing the space-alien cult of greed and power, aka Scientology.

  16. Holy shit Fuckstain is not the sharpest tool in the clubhouse full of scamming Internet tools, is he? We learned two very important things in this appearance, ineptly designed to save his own rotting carcass.

    First we learned the only one ever needs to know about the moral character of Mike Filsaime: he never once listened in on one of the coaching calls selling “Mike Filsaime Coaching.” The only calls he listened in on were the sales calls, but only so he could ensure his scam would carry on without complaints from those being conned.

    The second thing we learned is that he will even sell out his scamming pals if the ship this stinking rat rides is sinking.

    Well done, Filthy-shame. You simultaneously alienated yourself from your band of scammers and demonstrated to the marketplace that you don’t give two fucks about the customer. All while thinking to yourself that this would get your scamming ass off the hook.

    Listen up Michael Jerome Filsaime, and listen up good. You are done. You have robbed, scammed, and pissed off so many people that you will never be able to shake this. You’ll probably try to recover by becoming some kind of consumer watchdog or something (“I used to be a scammer now I can help you not be scammed by the likes of me”) but that won’t fly. It won’t fly because there are those of us who will not let it happen. We will always be waiting in the wings ready to post links to the growing Hall of Fil-Shame that Salty has graciously provided for us and your voluminous consumer complaints. This goes for you and the whole stinking lot of scammers you associate with. What next for you? Turn yourself in and ask for shortened sentence in return for your cooperation.

    P.S. I loved listening to the fear in your voice. Especially at the moment when Salty asked you if you’d ever listened in on one of your own coaching calls, and the moment where he asked if you knew your “coaches” were $10 an hour hacks.

    1. @Filsaime is French for “Scamming Brother”,

      Best post in this thread

      Filsaime should be scared…he’s going to jail
      I have a question for mike Filsaime:

      If the ‘Mike Filsaime Coaches’ are so talented that you charge 5k for them to teach others how to make money online

      …WHY ARE THEY WORKING FOR YOU FOR $10 an hour?

      1. @Shit Storm, Agreed. perfect sum-up. Now needs repeating as much as possible about the net. Especially “$10/hr workers” – “never quality-checks coaches calls” (as if there’s ever the quality anyhow on those).

      2. @Shit Storm, “never quality-checks coaches calls” is what bothers me the most. Shillfame admitted on the phone he never actually checked out the fucking product he turned his lists over to the boiler room to sell. Even today. It’s one thing to recommend something of value to people who purchased from you. It’s another to fake recommend a product you never even saw. Even if the marketing “funnel” and boiler-room madness was all in line and perfectly acceptable, recommending a product you’ve never sampled yourself, implying it’s yours with your seal of approval, is fraud.

        Who wouldn’t want to verify the “quality” coaches hired off the street are providing for “starting at $2500.”

        Actually, it just occurred to me that part of the problem is that he obviously believes his own bs so strongly he also falls for it from members of his industry. And they apparently prey on each other, too.

        Sheesh.

    2. @Filsaime is French for “Scamming Brother”,

      I wonder how brainwashed someone would have to be to continue slaving for this scammer? Are they destroying their own reputations for money or are they just as evil? Are they not thinking about the inevitable consequences that their own families will suffer?

  17. I’m sure some people read this site and think this problem isn’t an epidemic

    guess again…

    Here is a write up about Mike Filsaime’s for a speaking engagement for another scammers seminar…This was written with Mike Filsaimes approval

    From a full-time job at the auto dealer {50k a year with ZERO marketing skills} to an online millionaire in just 3 short years {selling nothing but make money online/ Biz Op courses}, Mike has gone from his spare bedroom {his apartment} to a 2nd new office and a staff of 36 people {accomplices} that help him run[scam} over 50+ sites.

    Mike’s advanced strategies shook the Internet when he released the world renowned Butterfly Marketing {some of the biggest bullshit ever written…and is NEVER even mentioned by Mike…guess it was only earth shattering when it was sold}, the Home Study Course that made {scammed} over $650,000 in under 24 hours and went on to produce 1 Million in sales in under 5 days.

    Always looking for that edge [LIKE BOILER ROOMS} to take himself and his projects to the next level, Mike will be sharing his latest discoveries and techniques that have helped build his brands{Keep saying this will not make it so…more like your CONS} to over 35 million in sales from 2006 through 2011.

    30 MILLION…THAT’S a 7 MILLION A YEAR AVG…Boiler room must have been working overtime

    If anyone has any doubts about the scamming ability of these con artists then stop for a minute and think what 7 million a year represents

    at a $47 price point – that’s 148,936 victims PER YEAR
    at a $97 price point – that’s 72,164 victims PER YEAR

    …at $5,000…the boiler room special – that’s 1,400 victims PER YEAR

    Mike Filsaime is a cancer and needs to be stopped

    Instead he arrogantly talked to Salty about being VICTIMIZED by boiler rooms he personally hired

    This guy scoffs at everyone on this site

  18. Even worse, Mike Filsaime is a bully… Check this out folks:

    Hi.  My name is Mike Filsaime and welcome to MikeFilsaimeSucks.com.  Now, you may be wondering why I have a video here at MikeFilsaimeSucks.com, or why I would even own the domain name MikeFilsaimeSucks.com.  Those are great questions.  Let me tell you why.

    Something very interesting happened: when you type in the name Mike Filsaime into Google, a top ten listing (first page ranking) was coming up for the domain name MikeFilsaimeSucks.com.  I was very confused.  I’d click on it and what I came to find out was very interesting.  I came to learn that somebody has realized that my name became a brand.  They realized a lot of searches were being done in Google.  They knew if they created a domain name with my name and put some content around it, then they could use the word “sucks” like MikeFilsaimeSucks.com, create some controversy, and get a lot of traffic to the website.  Guess what?  It worked.

    Why would somebody do this?  They may think it’s about freedom of speech or something like that, and, believe me, I think everybody is entitled to their opinion.  But, I think predisposing somebody’s opinion about somebody else is a terrible thing.  Even worse than that, this person was putting Google AdSense on the side of his website.

    What does that mean?  That means that when someone goes to Google and puts in a search phrase, they would type my name in and hit the search button.  You would then see (on the website) a bunch of listings and one would be MikeFilsaimeSucks.com.  If you were interested in learning some of my products, you would all of a sudden see that and say, “Whoa, if he sucks, let me open up this new page here in a new window.”  Then, you would start reading about whatever.

    If you don’t know what Google AdSense is, it’s these little ads that would bring you into Google’s network on the side of a website.  If somebody clicked one, the person whose website they’re on could make as much as 5 cents or 50 cents or $2 or whatever the case may be.

    So, he was now leveraging my brand, getting people looking for information about me, and creating controversy, so that he could profit.  That is a terrible thing.  I’m going to tell you what I did about it.

    Here’s what I did.  I contacted him very nicely and I asked him if he would please take the domain name down.  I asked him very, very nicely if he would take.  You’ll see some of the correspondents on this webpage that I had with this person basically telling me, “This is my right to do so… bring it.”

    Quite frankly, it got me a little bit upset so here’s what ended up happening.

    I did a good job building a brand, MikeFilsaime.com.  I have thousands and thousands of happy customers on the Internet.  In fact, if you were to go to Google right now and search Mike Filsaime (or maybe you just did, which is how you got to this website), you would see almost 150,000 pages written about me.  Almost everything that I can find is from people who are happy with my products, or talking about how they believe or know or read about my products on the Internet and see me as an expert or someone to follow.

    So, it was hurtful for me to see somebody using my name to get traffic to their website so he could profit from it; it just really bothered me.

    Here’s what I did.

    After I e-mailed him, I told him, “I have no choice but to sue you.”  I told him that I had a trademark on my name and he still didn’t want to hear it; it still didn’t matter to him.  He said, “Bring it.”

    Because of my brand that has done over $25 million in sales over the last several years on the Internet, I sued him for $250,000.  As you could imagine, he hired an attorney and his attorney advised him that the best thing to do would be to not risk a lawsuit where he could be liable for $250,000 and that he should turn the domain name over to me.  So, that’s why I own the domain name and that’s why this video is here right now.

    If you look on this page, you will see the lawsuit where we took this person to court and where we said that we were prepared to sue him for damages should he not comply and turn over the domain name.  We also got an agreement that he would no longer do anything with our brand name.

    Here are a couple other things that I want to go over with you.  I recommend that you do this immediately today: if you have a brand, or your name is a brand, or both, make sure to get a trademark.  Do you know a trademark, in some cases, takes up to a year to get?  It took me about a year to get a trademark for my name, Mike Filsaime.

    If you don’t think you can do it, you absolutely can.  If you have proof to show that your name is a brand, and can be used for other people to exploit, or whatever the case is, you have a case to create a trademark.  I did.

    Here’s what I would tell you to do: go to Google and type in the name of your favorite guru and hit the search button.  What you’re going to see is something very interesting.  You’re going to see SERPs (Search Engine Results Pages).  These are the pages that give out these search engine results.  In these SERPs are what’s known as organic listing.  The left side of the page is where Google puts relevant information about this person.

    I want you to look on the right side where it says “Sponsored Links.”  You’re going to see ads.  These ads are from anybody that created a free Google AdWords account.  They can take your favorite guru or brand that’s not trademarked, put that name in, put what’s called a wild card with the word sucks, scam, con, or don’t do business with.

    Now, you’ve built up this brand.  Somebody goes in and types your brand into Google and all the good stuff is written about you on the left site, and on the right side Google allows these ads to go on that say your brand sucks, your brand is a scam, your brand is a con, or don’t buy your brand.

    When they click on these little ads on the right side, those links go to a new webpage.  That person, in many cases (like with me in the past and many of your favorite gurus and experts on the Internet) creates what’s called a wild card tag.  Whatever page you go to, it fills that name in with, “Don’t do business with ABC Corp.,” or, “Don’t do business with XYZ Corp.”  They go on to tell you that with pre-filled out fake information, “I’ve bought all products from XYZ Corp. (or whatever tag you filled in the search engine box) and I found them to be a scam, they suck, they’re a con,” or whatever else they might say.

    Do you understand what happened?  Google allows people to take a brand, create an ad, drive traffic, and what do you think is at the bottom of this webpage?  One of two things: either their own product or an affiliate product that they are promoting.  So, Google is profiting off the tarnishing of your brand.  This person is also leveraging your name and profiting off the leverage of your good brand.

    Remember, you have happy customers.  You built a brand and they come looking for it, then they see that some guys say you suck and that you’re a con.  That person clicks on the link, the owner of the site tells the world that you suck and you’re a con, then profits off of it and makes money.

    It took me a year to get Google to stop this.  I want you to type Mike Filsaime in Google.  When you do that, look at the Sponsored Links compared to your other favorite gurus.  Your other favorite gurus’ names are still being exploited, most likely, because they didn’t get a trademark.

    I got a trademark on my name.  It cost me a little bit of money, but I’m protecting myself.  You’ll probably see something like, “Gurus suck,” or, “Don’t trust the gurus,” on the side if you type my name into Google.  I can deal with that.  They can play their little games, but they’re not going to say, “Mike Filsaime sucks,” or, “Mike Filsaime is a con.”  Google and those site owners are not going to profit off of my brand.

    So, here’s the tip and here’s what MikeFilsaimeSucks.com is all about: it’s to let people know that people with a brand should stand up for their rights and not let people profit on their good name while trashing their name at the same time.  Again, I’m all for freedom of speech.

    The next thing I want you to do is look up getting a trademark for your brand name.  That stops Google, Yahoo!, and MSN from allowing people to use your name inside of a sponsored ad.  You cannot use somebody else’s trademark for profit.  The next thing that will happen is if anybody uses your name or your trademarked brand and puts sucks or con or whatever next to it inside of a domain name, you have legal rights to protect yourself, especially if they’re using that domain name for profit.

    It’s very easy to find out if they’re using that domain name for profit: if there are any links to any other websites where they can profit from, or if they have Google AdWords or banner advertising or anything like that, or even if they’re building a list and getting people to register, it can be shown that they’re using this for profit.

    So, I hope you found this video interesting.  There are going to be some buttons around here where you can share this site through tweets and Facebook and things like that.  I am willing to tell the world that MikeFilsaimeSucks.com is a domain because I know that Mike Filsaime does not suck.  As I said I have thousands and thousands of happy customers.  I hope you found this video interesting and inspiring and I hope you learned the important lesson on how important it is to get a trademark so you can tell people, “You can’t mess with me because I’ve built a brand and my customers know the truth.”

    Thank you very much.  I’m Mike Filsaime.  If you want any more information about me, simply go to MikeFilsaime.com.  Have a great day.  Bye.

    1. @MikeFilsaimeSucks.com, Well, trademarks are trademarks…or are they???

      Domain name: www2-gotomeeting.com

      Registrant Contact:
      MikeFilsaime.com, Inc
      Michael Filsaime ()

      Fax:
      3555 Veterans Memorial Highway
      Suite C
      Ronknokoma, NY 11779
      US

  19. To Michael Jerome Filsaime and Known Accomplices, this is god. Me and my pals at the FTC (“French for Terminal Cancer”) made a special video for you:

  20. I’m trying to look at the maths, and it seems to me everyone gets hosed except Prosper.

    When Prosper’s sharks close a $2500 Mike Filsaime Coaching package with a Mike Filsaime lead, Mike Filsaime gets $625 to $750. Mike Filsaime gets zero dollars for his endorsement. Mike Filsaime gets zero dollars for non-converting leads. It’s all OK for Mike Filsaime as long as Mike Filsaime’s front-end frauducts remain profitable, as he asserts. But if Mike Filsaime’s front-end operation is actually a loss-leader lead-gen op, he’s getting hosed.

    I can’t find any information on the coaching package deliverables, not even on the Mike Filsaime Coaching website. It’s a big mystery. I’ll generously assume Prosper spends $50 producing and shipping that binder Mike talked about; their pro-rated content and customization R&D works out to $100 per customer; their real cost is $20 per coach per hour once employment taxes, benefits and workspace overhead are added in; and the coaches spend up to 3.75 non-billable hours managing each client. For that 25% to be truthful, that means they need to deliver at least 20 coaching hours with the $2500 package. Customers are being hosed, but if they’re not getting 20 hours, they’re being really hosed, and so is Mike Filsaime for believing the 25% fulfillment cost.

    [In Act VI, at 6:15, Mike said:

    I think what’s important to the customer is that they get what they pay for, not where the money goes.

    On the Warrior Forum, Mike Filsaime Coaching customer Janix wrote:

    Prosper got a $3000 agreement out of me but my estimate on value so far is much less than 10% of that.

    So, Mike, that’s not fucking happening. Customers are not even getting value equal to the fulfillment cost Prosper told you.]

    Prosper gets $1125 to $1250. In the interview, that sounds like it’s just a big black hole of profit, but they need to cover overhead and commissions out of that. In terms of office rental and phone service, they need to not only cover the 2.5 hours of phone time it takes to close a sale (per WF) but also the hours spent calling non-converting leads. Does anybody know Prosper’s conversion rate and pay structure?

    1. @Lanna, Good things to think through.

      ” I’ll generously assume Prosper spends $50 producing and shipping that binder Mike talked about;”

      Definitely have to be generous – probably closer to $20 – $25 max.

      Also don’t know about upper-end coaching and how many people take what $$dollar amount since coaching only starts about the $2500 range.

      Also the math assumes coaching delivering all the hours or full hours – maybe Prosper does it, but many other “coaching floors” don’t deliver the hours paid for or will count a 15 min call as the person’s “hour”…also the possibility of people realizing they’ve been duped early on and start fighting to try to get refunds and ignoring the rest of the hours.

      1. @Jack, Hi Jack. Thanks for that coaching, Jack. I think that was probably about 5 minutes, but was wondering if it will be billed for a whole hour, like the Filsaime trusting customer billing. If it is I can just skip my lunches for next month like everyone else.

        Also, I wonder if Mr. Mike Filsaime will sign his grandmother up for coaching, and let her pay out of her social security check, like all the other old people. He can remind her that spending less money on medicine means she can spend more money on opportunity. Because what good is health if you don’t have coaching?

        1. @Luther, Hopefully he can also remind her and also often remind everybody as possible about that it’s important to go bankrupt buying biz-opps before the Social Security goes bankrupt.

      2. @Jack,

        I’m not even sure the customers get a binder. Mike talked about the curriculum binder, but it might just be for the coaches. I’ve read about frauduct fluffing, though, so I figured if they did include one it’d be a big 3″ binder stuffed with full-color print-outs and custom tabs. I also added $20 for overnight or 2-day shipping, which would impress the customers and keep them occupied throughout the 3-day cancellation window.

        Yeah, I did assume delivery of all hours and full hours. On WF, Abdul Aziz shared this Prosper coaching experience:

        I said I wanted an affiliate business. After a couple of weeks, I noticed that my coach kept trying to push drop shipping on me. Then, after telling him in very clear terms that I wanted to do affiliate marketing, he told me he didn’t have experience with it. They gave me another coach, but they didn’t replace the wasted sessions I had with the previous coach.

        I see you found (below) there are Coaches and then there are entry-level Advisors. So then there’s the question of how many hours are with $18/hr Coaches and how many are with $10/hr Advisors.

    2. @Lanna, Was thinking about other “profit centers” for each lead-handler through the sales funnel (lead originator, Prosper, ??), like:

      reselling leads
      financing
      list brokering
      ??

      And ran up onto this interesting piece of information:
      http://www.sec.state.ma.us/sct/sctbeal/beal_complaint.pdf

      According to some allegations in complaint (which Mass Div Securities acted on) are:

      Prosper-mark pays $9,270.00 for Prosper Partner program.
      Is then referred to take out a $100,000 Home Equity loan on his house to get financing at 27% APR.

      Whole complaint list many considerably bizarre activities.

      and exhibits really tell us about SD holding out on some allegations:
      http://www.sec.state.ma.us/sct/sctbeal/beal_exhibits.pdf

      Which then makes me wonder if lead-generator also gets cut of the financing deals…or if SOME lead-generators have worked out that idea with Prosper.

      1. @Jack,

        Wow, that Beal thing is pretty wild. And data theft by employees is a concern for every business. You’re thinking too small, though. Prosper’s probably fucking over Mike Filsaime (MF) and milking his leads on an official basis.

        As I understand it, Prosper has agreed to give MF his 25-30% when they close an MF lead on MF Coaching. Prosper fulfills all the coaching, so MF’s reliant on Prosper’s reporting to tell him what he’s owed. The only way MF audits Prosper’s activities is listening to random customer calls when he visits. Prosper could be:

        – Underreporting sales to MF and underpaying him.
        – Selling MF leads other products they fulfill using noncompliant scripts and keeping 100% of the revenue.
        – Selling other leads MF Coaching using noncompliant scripts and keeping 100% of the revenue.

        1. @Lanna, Investment advisor claims he can be middle-man for investment that “pays out monthly” – which I can guess will mean illegal hyip/ponzi or speculative trading.

      2. @Jack,

        It’s interesting to see that Prosper runs the back end for John Commuta. I hear his radio ads all the time, promoting his “Debt Into Wealth” crap, and I’ve wondered how he monitized his list.

        According to the documents you turned up, his free radio offer creates a huge list of suckers. He’s a partner in Prosper, so he feeds them into the machine to be ground to bits.

    3. @Lanna, Now according to this truth-AD, maybe another profit-center for all sales-chain-links is the further-funnel-forthem existing client products – I assume it’s what they mean for:

      “This is a consultative phone sales position calling existing clients. No cold calling. You will always call qualified leads.”

      Sales Consultant App for Prosper, Inc.

      which seems to have the freudian-word-ommission leading to:

      “* Interview potential customers regarding products and services to best meet their.
      * Follow-up on initial sales contacts.”

      I guess it must have to mean the credit-card-money-hunt in the scripts.

    4. @Lanna, http://www.prospercareers.com/ gives some employee-pay details

      In addition to $ amts listed most include PTO/401k
      Also Prosper must have many things that weigh 20 lbs as I can see lifting 20 lbs often mentioned as requirement of positions.

      Here is pay-stuffs they have listed:

      * SEO / Internet Marketing / Ecommerce Coach
      $18+ per hour, negotiable depending on experience

      * SEO / eCommerce Advisor (Entry-Level)
      Provides support between student’s official mentoring sessions.
      $$unknown

      * Inbound Sales Coach:

      “We are the industry leader in opportunity and INCOME! Top 10% of sales team made over 125k last year in Provo, Utah – no moving, no travel. Paid training.”

      Apparently other 90% had to lift 20 pounds occasionally according to job description.

      * Inside Sales – Continuity Team
      (seems to be the lead-qualification and customer support piece)
      No $$ listed.

      * Personal Development Consultant
      Aggressive commissions or base (no exact amt listed)
      Special requirements:

      ” The key concept a consultant should be familiar with is the Law of Attraction. Familiarity with the movie “The Secret”, Joe Vitale, the Laws of Success and insights pertaining to mental and emotional development are helpful as well.”

      * Administrative Assistant
      $10/hour + Bonuses

      * Customer Service Supervisor
      $11/hr plus bonuses, working full-time hours

      * Data Verification Agent (P/T position)
      $9.25

      * Human Resource Generalist
      $$ unknown

      * Jr. Web Developer (HTML)
      $$ unknown
      noted: rollout testing done overseas.

      * Web Graphic Designer
      $13-18/hr

      1. @Jack, Hi Jack, Those sound like real good jobs except for the lifting 20 pounds part, and also the scamming part. I guess maybe except for all the other parts also.

        1. @Luther,

          The 20 lbs combined with “using hands to handle, control, or feel objects, tools or controls” are meant to qualify their EOE and “accommodations may be made to enable employees with disabilities” statements so the tetraplegics know not to apply. Paraplegics OK. Tetraplegics NO.

          Here is why they are in Rexburg, Idaho: Brigham Young University–Idaho

  21. that went a lot smoother than I would have expected it to go. Would have been interesting to see how many of old “business partners” he would have thrown under the bus if probed correctly.

    probed correctly… haha. gross.

  22. Mike Fils-Aimé (loved by his dad) pulls it off with his “I’m open to the truth” thang . . . he’s cruising during this whole interview…

    and then . . .

    and then comes Act VI around 7 min. – Salty corners him about Prosper.

    The silence from Filsaime is epic!

    The fear!

    The huu! huu! Gulp!

    The swallowing of gilt!

    This was epic.

    Sooooo? . . . Prosper keeps 50%, Mike 25%… for a training created by Prosper on behalf on FIlsaime???

    Scam! (on every level)

    Mike, with a name like yours (which is so nice in French) — you certainly do nothing to honor your ancestors memory.

    Booooo!

    . . .

    Salty — that was brilliant!

    Good job!

    Keep it up!

    1. @wide eyes,

      There’s a oft repeated (horrid and completely false) factoid that a frog won’t jump out of slowly heating water, and will stay there till it’s boiled. It’s not true for frogs but obviously gnomes are unable to feel the temperature rising till it’s too late.

      I knew Prosper waterboarded someone – I remember reading it here ages ago and thinking at first that it must be a joke, till I checked out the link. But Filsaime “didn’t know”?

      The fact that he was willing to give an interview at all is, I sincerely hope, a sign that some people are starting to realize that having a whole lot of negative shit about them here may eventually have legal implications, as well as putting a dent in sales.

    1. @Jack,
      According to Rippoff Extortion Advocacy Program:

      “PROSPER COMMITMENT TO CONSUMER SATISFACTION

      Prosper is committed to taking care of any issues from the past and will always do so in the future as part of Rip-off Report Corporate Advocacy Program and you should email them directly at this special email address devin@prosperlearning.com

      Hi, Devin.

      1. @Jack, Hi Jack. I started to send an email but I typed the email address wrong and it came out to be devil@prosperlearning.com. So a tip for anybody sending an email, you should probably try to get the L out of there.

  23. It’s shameful and it’s scary – this guy has a “curriculum”, knows Prosper fulfills the coaching and doesn’t supervise it. Whenever I make a customer service call, I’m put on hold and told that my call may be recorded for quality control purposes. It isn’t like the guy would even have to go to Prosper and sit there – he could listen to recordings by phone from his home.

    The reason he stated he hasn’t listened to the calls must be that when he winds up in court, he can say he wasn’t aware of the call center’s practices. At which point, he’ll be asked about his experience with other call centers. If 3 other call centers couldn’t be trusted, he should have exercised due diligence with Prosper. Which, of course, may not carry any weight in Utah.

    I know of coaching programs that get $50-$150 per hour, and those are the low-end coaches and coaching packages. I know many charge more. Filsaime’s victims might get as little as an hour a month for six months. However much coaching they get, Filsaime gets that $625 for doing jack shit. Whatever it is that he sells, it’s already written and recorded. A gift that keeps on giving. Like herpes.

    After reading the breakdown, I have to wonder who’s pulling the strings. Maybe our sleazo IM predators are employees of the boiler rooms. I’d be happy to get $625 for a lead. It sounds like the IM predators are lead generators for the boiler rooms, not vice-versa.

    I guess – no, actually, I know – that I’m very lucky. I didn’t have $2500 available on my credit card. I didn’t have 10K or 20K or 30K socked away somewhere. If I had, I would have lost it to one of the online IM predators, without even giving out my phone number. I was that swayed, convinced, and certain that the person/program I was listening to at the time would help catapult me into a fabulously successful endeavor.

    I don’t miss listening to those webinars. And after being here, I will never view a one of them the same. Can’t unring that bell.

  24. Ok So I’m going to make this short and sweet, I was on Russell Brunson’s call floor for years and I know the call center space really really well as I had been working and running them . I know Prosper ,PMI, IV, all of them really well. Mike has some of it right & some things not so much. In respect to Brunson’s Room Jason got a lot of things wrong.

    ( Past posts were wrong as well. The whole Karl thing was WAY out of context and Karl has since apologized to them all admitting he made it all up. I see Jason was hinting to that in the call)

    Salty if you really want to get to the bottom of all this I’ll tell you some things . So you have it right.
    A. because its going to happen anyways you might as well have it out right and not made up B.S.
    B. I’m not working in the space at all I don’t care.

    I want to speak about Russell’s floor and Prosper more than any of the others. I know/knew them very well.

    INFACT when Salty made the first post about the DotComSecrets floor sales floor with Mikes leads it was not even Russell’s floor LOL it was Prosper s Idaho Floor. Salty attacked the wrong guys all together. I remember upper management was ticked off because they knew it was not there script. They knew it was Prospers script. ( its posted somewhere on the blog)

    It’s funny because Mike just admitted it in that call that he was using both floors at the same time. that’s how this happened. ( I can’t find that first post were Russell’s Floor was brought up but this link talks about it. ( maybe you can dig it up somewhere. it has a 208 phone number on it. and it goes into the script )

    http://saltydroid.info/russell-brunson-rocks-the-kasbah/

    ^
    “On a Droid post this past September :: a commenter {who is known to me but not to you} detailed a horribly abusive and disgusting sales call for one of Mike Filsaime’s frauducts. The call came from Brunson’s boiler room :: as many of the calls for Mike’s BullShit have over these past years ::”

    Funny how you got Russell on your radar over that and it was not even his floor.

    “Russell needed thousands of leads a day for the call center” LOL not even close to the truth. That floor was tiny tiny man. like 125k a week at its best. Prosper. PMI ect.. 1-1.5 MILL a week. Dotcomsecrets was very small and everyone thought it was so big. it really wasn’t

    Anyhow if you want to talk and get the info the right way straight from the horse’s mouth email me here —–> callcentersalt@hushmail.com

    1. @Was in the game for years. ::

      Could have been Prosper Idaho that was referenced in that early comment here about boiler rooms … true … and that would be kinda funny.

      Not exactly an important detail though because he was using both floors :: and because all these scripts look the same … and none of them are even fucking close to legal.

      Nothing was “taken out of context” in those original posts about Brunson :: and in fact :: I kept most of the bizarre shit to myself and just reported the basic patterns that fit the descriptions of other rooms I was hearing about … since confirmed dozens of times. The point of those stories was that these boiler rooms existed and that Internet Marketing people were trying to use/build them :: it was totally true … and twas a shock to me at the time.

      No doubt Brunson was tiny compared to Utah :: high hopes … tiny achievements. I don’t really have a sense of how many leads per day are required per salesman to make a floor sustainable … that would be good to know. But a thousand leads is not really very many considering conversion rates … and whatever Brunson was getting was clearly not enough. “Enough” leads is almost always a problem.

      Where were you two fucking years ago when I didn’t know shit about shit?

      You email me hushmail :: if u gotz something.

      1. @SD, “Not exactly an important detail though because he was using both floors :: and because all these scripts look the same … and none of them are even fucking close to legal.”

        Sure not to you but to us it did.

        “Nothing was “taken out of context” in those original posts about Brunson :: and in fact :: I kept most of the bizarre shit to myself and just reported the basic patterns that fit the descriptions of other rooms I was hearing about … since confirmed dozens of times. The point of those stories was that these boiler rooms existed and that Internet Marketing people were trying to use/build them :: it was totally true … and twas a shock to me at the time.”

        ya not so much actually. The “bizarre shit” was for sure just that. the other stuff was made to sound bizarre.

        ““Enough” leads is almost always a problem.”

        agreed

        “Where were you two fucking years ago when I didn’t know shit about shit?”

        Was here reading all B.S. wondering how the hell did this get so inflated.

        “You email me hushmail :: if u gotz something.”

        I got plenty. I just don’t think you will like it as it may not fit the narrative that went on here. BUT it will be the truth of it all. And then you can attack the right things. I don’t have a agenda to add to the made up stuff. I would just tell it how it really is.

        1. @Was in the game for years.,

          Having corresponded with the Droid myself, he absolutely wants the truth and the facts. It ain’t gonna change his mind about the nature of Brunson’s operation though, no matter what you say. Way too much truth and facts on that already, and nobody gives a shit if one particular call did or didn’t come from one scammy boiler room or the other.

    2. @Was in the game for years.,

      Now that I looked into this, I want to take back the thumbs up I gave you for sharing. Two things you need to ‘splain to me:

      The phone number from the original comment is 208-577-6210. The 577 exchange is assigned to Brunson’s Boise. Multiple lookup services confirm 208-577-6210 is a Boise number, despite Idaho number pooling. Before the September 2009 comment and Salty’s November 2009 post, back in June 2009 people receiving calls from 208-577-6210 said the number was from “somebody Brunson” and “Russell Brunson’s DotComSecrets call center”. So how do you expect me to believe that this Boise number belongs to Prosper’s Rexburg call center, 300 miles from Boise?

      According to Filsaime, he was only using both floors for two months. In Act III at 7:53 he says:

      I would probably say we used Russell’s floor for about four months, and for two months of that we were transitioning over to Prosper.

      So you’re telling me that instead of using those two months to test Prosper’s conversion rates using the control script, Filsaime let Prosper use a different one? Or are you saying that the script described was one Prosper used after Filsaime stopped using Brunson’s floor? Why didn’t any of Brunson’s people step up and say, “That’s not us. We’re not making calls for Filsaime anymore”?

      1. @Lanna,

        “Now that I looked into this, I want to take back the thumbs up I gave you for sharing. Two things you need to ‘splain to me:”

        I’m not here to get your thumb up anything.
        But yes I will “spiain” it to you. Actually can you find that link? I looked and looked and could not find it. The original first one. The one you posted ^ is not the one I was talking about. It was in a main post I thought. It went though the script.
        But I know for sure that was NOT our script because I had prospers scripts at the time and we all looked into it. The language did not match our floor at all. Now rather you believe that or not I could care less. But I knew the floor Very Very well. each Floor has its language that it uses to say or ask the same thing and that was not even close to ours.

        NOW it could have been a call from our floor sure. And I would guess with out a fight that our floor DID call whoever it was .Thus the 208 phone number that WAS ours. But what had to have happened is one of two things.

        1. They got called twice once by us and once by Prosper and mixed up the numbers with the call. Duplicate leads on the floors happens all the time very common. But this still leaves me with questions that all explain in my 2nd point.

        2. They got a call from us somehow got a hold of a script and said “this is what they said” That post had line per line what was said by the caller. so was it recorded? lets hear the call then. Or they got that text from somewhere. It was to detailed and exact to be “remembered” It was very specific words that were NOT our floors words.

        “So how do you expect me to believe that this Boise number belongs to Prosper’s Rexburg call center, 300 miles from Boise?”

        I don’t unless you want to.
        I have no agenda to make anyone believe it. I’m just getting the info out and you can think what you want from it.

        “So you’re telling me that instead of using those two months to test Prosper’s conversion rates using the control script, Filsaime let Prosper use a different one? Or are you saying that the script described was one Prosper used after Filsaime stopped using Brunson’s floor?”

        I don’t know what you are even talking about here. there is no “control” script. ^ That’s not how any of this works

        “Why didn’t any of Brunson’s people step up and say, “That’s not us. We’re not making calls for Filsaime anymore”?”

        We choose to not say anything on this blog. WE decided that it was not worth it. This is the first I have ever posted on it.

        I seen other peps come on and defend themselves here and it all backfired right in there face. This crowd wants to believe what they want to. Its all red meat to them they love it. All of us felt it was best to let them do there thing with out us back then.

        1. @Was in the game for years. ::

          “We choose to not say anything on this blog. WE decided that it was not worth it.”

          Oh really? Cause I remember the exact opposite … both on and off the blog. Speaking of which :: I deleted Karl’s last name … just like I did last time. Fuck you man :: you use a proxy to leave an anonymous comment revealing someone else full name? Real fucking brave.

          And I’ve never posted or talked about a Brunson script. There’s only one script here and it’s PMI’s.

          So far you’re doing a pretty shit job of correcting my facts.

          If I want info about something right now … I could call up the equivalent of your boss’s boss and ask. So your street level rumor and innuendo means about as much to me as a bag of cat craps. Send me a script or an audio or something sweet to make up for wasting my time with your useless bullshits.

          1. @SD,

            “”you use a proxy to leave an anonymous comment revealing someone else full name? Real fucking brave.””

            LMAO your really a piece of work guy. you posted peoples Names family,numbers, address, attacking them with your quarter truth bullshit hiding behind your Salty Droid character tell they all got P.Is to find you THEN you came out at told who you are. ya Jason you where “Real fucking brave.”

            Your above bull shit just now is exactly why we never posted on here. Whats the point? This is who you are and what you do.

            1. @Hi Pot Meet Kettle ::

              Is “what I do” making terrible liars slink away in horror? Cause yeah … and thanks.

        2. @Was in the game for years.,

          I went through all the Russell Brunson posts. The November 2009 main post “Russell Brunson Rocks the Kasbah” referenced in your original comment is the only one with any description of the call script, and Salty just quoted the comment I linked to, left on the September 2009 “StomperNet :: We’ll Pay You Later” main post. I went through all 15 posts from September 2009, and there are no others mentioning the 208 area code or describing a call script.

          As Salty says, there’s only one script here. On the July 2011 post “Anthony Morrison’s Television Internets,” there’s a script for Anthony Morrison upsells scanned from the hard copy, listed as Boiling Instructions.pdf. Then we heard that script in action in the August 2011 post Scamming Two Debbies. That script was attributed to PMI, not Brunson, and it doesn’t meet the timeframe for Filsaime using Brunson and Prosper, either.

          I’m curious, if each floor has its own language, what happens with the overflow? Does the overflow follow the script from the floor the person’s physically at, or does it follow the script from the floor with the original contract?

          “there is no “control” script. ^ That’s not how any of this works” Oh, hee hee, thanks for that. That really touched my black, black direct marketer’s heart.

          1. @Lanna,

            as per overflow:

            no the “script” really would not go with the leads if a floor was brokering out overflow ( we never did this as we were always needing leads. the last thing we would do is send them out to another floor)

            This is the deal about the script and all that. I don’t know where the post is but its not any of the ones posted here. I remember upper management (who Salty thinks he has access to LMAO) talking to Mikes guys about it all. The email to us all was from one of his guy (mikes guy). I still remember the headline of his email to us all about it. might go dig up old emails if i actually care later.

            the whole point to me saying anything here is that it was not us. The number was ours for sure but the call (that was reported) was not from us. we proved it to mikes guy that day I was there and on the group call about it all.

            it doesn’t really matter though unless you all want the truth how it all really worked and happened. if not its been real fun typing this all out on my phone and my thumbs hurt.

            1. @Was in the game for years,

              Sorry about your thumbs. Yeah, I wanna see the email and hear your truths. In your opinion, is Prosper the mothership?

  25. Mike Filsaime is interesting. Mike Filsaime might not be a sociopath.

    IMHO, Mike Filsaime should be complimented for allowing himself to be recorded in an interview with SD (even if we suspect or know that Mike Filsaime’s motives might be way selfish and not pure–that doesn’t matter so much with this stuff. You reward the correct (or at least less wrong) behavior over and over again and you get less and less evil from the subject over time). It’s called Operant Conditioning. I’m guessing it probably doesn’t work on sociopaths.

    But, for now at least, I’m speculating that Mike Filsaime might not be a sociopath. For the moment, I’m suspecting he has instead made it to where-ever he is the only way any non-sociopath could possibly do it with IM-MMO: massive, massive amounts of self-deception and lying (to oneself). The lots of $$$ are a part of that. A build-up of ill gotten $$$$$ are to conscience as CO2 build-up is to breathing. It’s very difficult to think clearly once you’re already in it up to your eyeballs.

    He wants to believe that Prosper is on the up and up because the numbers are looking good. (He believes) He verified that at least they’re not hard selling his customers so badly that they get mad.

    Hear how again and again in the call he talks about wanting to maintain a good relationship with the customer. He either never or barely mentions something about the “product” actually being a good value for the customer. He’s kind of like a modern cigarette salesman. He can’t talk much about the product being good for the customer because it is in fact demonstrably bad for them. So instead, he focuses simply on wanting to maintain a good (for him) relationship with the customer.

    Mike Filsaime incorrectly interprets having a good relationship with the customer to be the same thing as doing what is actually in the customer’s best interests. Mike Filsaime does not seem to realize (or care) that it’s probably that what would actually be in the (potential) customer’s best interest would be for Mike Filsaime to stop selling the customer things.

    Instead, Mike Filsaime, should donate some or all of his money to a worthwhile charity (whilst doing lots of due diligence to make sure said charity isn’t just another damn scam) and then put up a site decrying the vast, horrendous evils of IM-MMO and mea culpa-ing for the foreseeable future of all his past wrongs.

    ————————————————–

    Telemarketing call centers are clearly a place where evil happens all the time. Sometimes small evil, sometimes big EVIL. Doubtless part of this has to do with a lack of enforcement of existing laws. But I wonder what the rest of it is–is it something intrinsic to the nature of robo-calls or is it something that could be different if it were done differently?


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    1. @Wyrd, Isn’t “massive, massive amounts of self-deception and lying (to oneself)” a major, if not the defining characteristic of a sociopath?

      Not that I’m a shrink or anything… I’m just thinking about those circuits in the frontal lobes that should be chiming in with “hey, that ain’t right, don’t do that, little sweet old ladies will lose their life savings, etc.”, but are all burned out and missing in guys like Mike, hence their capacity for denial, their ability to sleep like f_cking babies, etc.

      I totally agree with the notion of $$$-induced sociopathy. I think just about all of us have that potential – if it’s dished up to us on a silver platter, that is. These guys worked (well, you know what I mean) towards it, and continued doing it year after year when they had ample opportunity to reflect on what they were doing and who was getting hurt. Another reason to take everything Mike & co. say about having always been on a need-to-know basis, unaware of the boiler room goings-on, etc. with a pinch of salt. Yeah right – you don’t take the lion’s share of earnings, get your name in the front page, etc, without having your greasy fingerprints on every little dank, dark corner of the operation.

      Interesting call but it shrieked damage control/PR yadda yadda. All I heard was “not to my knowledge/not in my presence/may I have a glass of water”. The more guys like that claim to be cleaning house, the more they stay the same.

    2. @Wyrd,

      During his auto sales days, Mike Filsaime probably got lots of practice selling customers what they wanted, whether it was good for them or not, and stuffing those bad conscience-y feelings back down inside until they stopped popping up at all.

      It’s funny how Mike said he was “very, very, very reluctant to use a call center,” but once he started he couldn’t stop.

      (I was surprised he met Ivy Capital at ad:tech, which I’ve always found to be a thoroughly respectable event, but it turns out Shit Storm already told us about that.)
      ————————————————–
      No, there’s nothing intrinsically evil about bulk outbound telephone calls. Robo-calls are used to warn people about weather emergencies, confirm Veterans Affairs medical center appointments, and remind pharmacy customers to refill their prescriptions. Call centers with predictive dialers are used to sell symphony tickets, renew museum memberships, and raise funds for charities. I used to get tons of telemarketing calls from the newspaper – annoying, but not evil.

      IMHO, we’ve hit a point with “fierce rules” and lax enforcement where you are more likely to have negative experiences with telemarketing than positive ones. You won’t receive a friendly call from the law-abiding new dentist in your neighborhood trying to set an appointment; you’re on the Do Not Call Registry so that would be illegal. But Kyle Kirschbaum and Ivy Capital don’t give a shit about the Do Not Call Registry, so they’ll call until they get caught. PMI makes legal calls to people with Established Business Relationships, but then uses illegal scripts. When telemarketing is outlawed, only the outlaws will use telemarketing, and they’ll keep using it until they’re indicted.

      What’s intrinsically evil here is selling unicorn dreams. If the scripts were compliant, I could feel a little better about it. If the prices were a lot lower – and not based on your available credit, I could feel a little better about it. But the product here is the get-rich-quick promise peddled with false scarcity and urgency to people who can’t afford any financial risks, and that’s just evil.

  26. I saw reference to a “Rexburg” call center … home of BYU Idaho. So do all of these call centers rely on hiring returned Mormon Missionaries for cheap labor?

    I remember being at BYU and the direct sales companies like pest control, alarm sales, and vacum sales recruit heavily because they have a large population of people who have no fear of rejection. You spend two years knocking doors and having the door slammed in your face you get pretty immune to rejection which seems would be a requirement to work on a sales floor.

    For the record I never worked one of those sales jobs … nor did a 2 year mission.

    1. @RT,

      Yeah, the orthodox LDS members come back from their missions with no fear of rejection, strong discipline and good people skills. (Check out “God’s MBAs: Why Mormon Missions Produce Leaders.”)

      Salty already mentioned the “hard-working and easily manipulable” “lost boys” employed by Jeremy Johnson’s St. George operations. These desperate young men have been kicked out of the fringe camps, where an even male-to-female ratio would threaten the polygamist ways of the old men in charge.

      Temple-going Mormons “are expected to pay 10 percent of their income to move forward the work of the Church.” They’re expected to have large families, too, and I’ve come to understand that it’s frowned upon for an LDS man’s children to have to go without or make do with old clothes, cars, etc. From what I’ve seen, even non-practicing Mormons follow the cultural tradition of large, lavishly-provided-for families. Income is a top priority for the average Mormon man.

      All in all, you have a highly motivated workforce that’s either already immune to rejection or has nowhere else to turn.

      1. @Lanna,

        Your right on the tithing and focus on family which in many cases translates to large families … we have 4 little ones.

        The whole polygamist/fringe thing is not part of the church any longer. Been 100+ years.

        But if you think about it … at BYU there are 20,000 + students. Let’s say half of those are male and maybe 75% are returned missionaries you have a population that is ripe to be recruited into sales positions like this.

        The whole lavish / no hand me down thing … pretty bad characterization. At least in my experience.

        1. @RT,

          OK, the no hand-me-down thing is from my experience with LDS members and people raised LDS who live in Las Vegas. It is possible that’s the corrupting influence of Sin City and its nouveau riche. IMHE, Las Vegas Mormons don’t value education at all, while Utah Mormons do – as evidenced by BYU.

          1. @Lanna,

            I’ve been told by numerous long-time Vegas natives that many of the early activities of the mafia in Vegas were actually funded by a handful of rich LDS families.

            I’ve never pushed hard enough to try and get names… but it’s on my to-do list.

            1. @zipnar,

              This guy seems to feel that Harry Reid (an LDS Senator, although not really sure if he is still an active member of the church) is connected to the mob … http://futurnamics.com/reid.php

              Disclaimer: Never read the book and have zero connection to the author.

  27. Somebody needs to tell mr. Filsaime that Internet Marketing as known is dead again since the last time it was dead again:

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