Syndicates on The Verge
So I’m totally famous now … I can haz u monies?
Last year Engadget left AOL to become The Verge :: because AOL is like one of the stupidest things that’s ever happened … and if you breathe in their fumes for too long you’ll turn into a raging idiot addicted to teeth whiteners. Says David Carr in his NYTimes article about the move …
“In Internet years, AOL has grown long in the tooth and seems incapable of playing nice with the toys it buys. There is a great deal of execution risk in putting old and new brands together. Even now, many of the longtime editorial employees at AOL have been laid off to make way for Huffington Post staff, while many of the unpaid contributors to Huffington Post have been vocal about the fact that the site cashed in, but they still work free.
It hasn’t helped matters that AOL has changed strategies as often as Lady Gaga switches out sunglasses, including the much-hated “AOL Way,” a leaked document that suggested that the company was far more interested in mass-produced link-bait than building and supporting unique publishing brands.”
What’s wrong with mass-produced link-bait? If it’s good enough for Jason Calacanis :: then it’s good enough for you … assuming that you’re fucking useless like Jason Calacanis.
Anywayz :: back in December some of The Verge editors saw Anthony Morrison’s not so informational infomercial … and they were none too impressed. They contacted Jason about it because he’s the chairman of The National Freaks & Assholes Society … Mississippi SubChapter.
Five months {and a super impressive amount of actual expensive journalism} later :: comes this holy shit epic story …
Scamworld: ‘Get rich quick’ schemes mutate into an online monster
It’s like an objective outsider’s look at my objective outsider’s look at your insider “industry” :: spoiler alert … you come off exactly like the shit sandwiches that you are.
It’s hard to find the bottom of this big dark problem … no less to make any legit progress toward a meaningful solution. Some days it feels like we’re not making any progress … and like there’s no fucking hope.
Yeah … but no.
It’s called traction :: and we’re getting some … stick in both feet and push!
>> bleep bloop
More fabulously hilarious writing ::
- Boiled Gnome You know I hate me some gnomes :: the...
- John Raygoza Scams Yo Momma The John Raygoza horror story begins :: like so...
- Consumer Protection Summit :: Suits vs Unicorns Four score and seven years ago … … starts...
- Syndicate Shit Storm —— UPDATE :: Video taken down by badguys …...
- Gnomes in Scamworld Gnomes :: a tiny race of colorful madmen …...
:: read one now before you die of stupid.
I honestly can’t remember that last time I sat “Indian style”.
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Congrats, Salty!
A long read, but very much worth it.
WINNER!! ::
+7
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Overnight success!
WINNER!! ::
+13
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long read but damn good… and oddly i came to it outside of your site and was coming back here to say something about it.
it was linked to on techmeme.com – where i get all my juicy tech news.
and yeah, fuck JCal. what a douche.
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(RE theverge article itself.) It’s so totally awesome! (You got sort of scooped a little by @Jack.)
And yet they still only touched the tip of the iceberg. No 3rd Tribe or copyblogger anywhere in evidence.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
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Dr. Zen Reply:
May 10th, 2012 at 10:43 pm
@Wyrd,
Yeah, and Chris Guillebeau, Brendon Burchard and the rest of the pseudo-ethical “changing the world with lifestyle-design manifesto” types. I’d be tempted to club Ramit Sethi with this group, but at least he explicitly screens out people with credit card debt from buying his programs. He does, however, associate with that uber-douche Tim Ferriss and Chris Guillebeau.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 1:52 am
@Wyrd ::
Not to mention the non mentioning of triple-homicider James Arthur Ray. How scary is it that such a big article only skims the surface? Very scary.
@Dr. Zen ::
There’s a clip of Walker in the video that’s from a Burchard event :: so I think Brendon can be proud of taking part like David “don’t be a wussy” Woods said over at The Verge …
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/10/2984893/scamworld-get-rich-quick-schemes-mutate-into-an-online-monster#102181591
I know … totally … old ladies getting done by boiler rooms … LMAO.
[Reply]
Butt Weight There is More Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 11:32 am
@SD,
I was so pleased to see this story. Beyond the validation that you already provide, you just got mainstream dog! I feel as though this this effort has struck the core of the issue, but the list of evil is massive. Hope they do a follow up to expose more.
@Dr. Zen,
Aye. What about app sumo? Am I the only one that sees through their bs? Observe how the offers are constructed. It’s like groupon for scammers…
[Reply]
Head Honcho Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
@SD, And…maybe I missed it somewhere here but no one else seems to have mentioned…NO mention of Stephen Pierce? He seems to have turned out to be one of the worst. A potential James Ray in the making, only, instead of sweat lodge deaths, he’s more likely to bring a gun on stage and start wiping out the audience in rage. A ticking time-bomb like that should be diffused quickly.
It would have been really cool if The Verge piece had covered him and the fresh new class action forming against him…to lure more peeps out of the shadows who could join the suit?
[Reply]
Big Picture Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
@Head Honcho, This was a wakeup call about the scam known as “internet marketing,” as opposed to just one scammer known as “Stephen Pierce.”
In this case, focusing on the big picture will prove way more powerful and beneficial to this blog’s mission that microfocusing on one scammer.
In fact, one side benefit from all the attention that this is generating is that each scammer mentioned on this blog will get even more negative exposure.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
@Big Picture, Understood. Just wish he’d been *included* and I kind of thought it weird he was overlooked. I know it’ll all wash well. The coverage alone and the buzz it’s creating is … priceless.
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Head Honcho Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Sorry — that anonymous above was me. Didn’t notice my name had disappeared.
Awesome movie! Great job SD and the Verge editors involved. That should get a message across.
P.S. I like your apartment.
WINNER!! ::
+7
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I’ve got Fahrenheit 451, Invisible Man, Moby Dick, and Walden tees.
Didn’t think I could pull off The Catcher in the Rye… but you can. :-)
P.S. Great video and article. Got the word out earlier today.
[Reply]
Martypants Reply:
May 10th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
@Ryan Healy, I enjoyed the not-so-subtle t-shirt subtext as well…Holden Caufield has nothing on JJ. My own personal fave of the ilk is a very rare Richard Brautigan tshirt I simply won’t surrender…and a couple Onion tshirts I got back in the 80s for writing headlines. I bet I am the only one on the planet with an “Eliminate Penis fear” and “I like to fist” tshirt based on the 1988(ish) Onion graphics. They don’t get as much air time as they should – they are too effective in causing a fuss. :)
WINNER!! ::
+7
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wow – Awesome video and article. Personally i’ve really really liked the verge. its almost like it came out of nowwhere – they are getting massive traffic very quickly and it seems due to quality content. The juxtaposition of the voiceovers and the frequent regular IM folks who appear is quite entertaining to your regular readers.
And it was cool to finally really see you chat.
Keep up the great work.
:)
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… says Matt Cutts … while he takes a shower in scam dollars.
http://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts/status/200646567718428672
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Lanna Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 12:50 am
@SD,
In other angry tweets, Danny Sullivan seems pissed you gave an interview to SEOBook.com and The Verge but not SearchEngineLand.com.
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SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 1:12 am
@Lanna ::
That one doesn’t annoy me as much because he’s not specifically in the position :: and holding the immediate responsibility … to do something about this disaster plague.
But it’s not The Verge that decided to call them “Internet Marketers” … that’s what they call themselves … and there are hundreds of thousands / millions of people using that stupid label. The harm comes from the harm … not from the pointing it out.
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Danny Sullivan Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
@Lanna, no, I was pissed that The Verge defined all of internet marketing as being only this particular type of tactic. That’s pretty self-evident from the tweet.
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SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 3:43 am
Oh look they already talked about this …
… when Joshua asks him “what’s the legit community going to do to help with these scammers” … that’s right when I become his #1 fan forever. #1FF
And Sullivan :: quite obviously … shot off his tweet mouth based on @MattCutts lust … before fully reading Joe’s amazing story.
You’ve never heard IMers call themselves IMers Danny? For fucking seriously?
Here’s me explaining the difference back in 2010 in reference to Razorfish type “internet marketing” …
http://saltydroid.info/my-father-is-li-gang/
Of course you’ll forgive me for thinking I wasn’t explaining it for Danny Sullivan … maybe he and Matt Cutts should go learn all about it on SEO Book last year …
http://www.seobook.com/salty-droid-interview
… then they won’t be so fucking surprised about it this year.
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Irwin Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
@SD,
Don’t upset Matt Cutts!
He and Google might label your completely original, highly informative, and well researched content as spam.
http://www.seobook.com/penguin-update
They can do that you know. It’s called search innovation in “Goo Goo Land” where Danny Sullivan and Matt Cutts frolic with the algorithms and such.
Goo Goo Land is not as much fun as “Scamworld” because there are no hookers, and Frank Kern isn’t allowed ten miles from the joint, but it’s far more profitable. That means they get a better dental plan and stock options.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/google-online-prescription-drugs_n_1333180.html
Nice Google.
PS – While the Droid may be getting all the attention right now, most of us know that you do all the work round here Jason.
Perfect time to ask for a raise.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
@SD,
I love when you spell it all out like this. This is the sort of thing that should go on the T-shirt one day.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
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Danny Sullivan Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
@SD, why didn’t I learn about internet marketing programs calling themselves “Internet Marketing” from the SEO Book article? Well…
Do you think the headline really gave me any clue about why I’d even read it: “Salty Droid Interview.”
Sorry, I’d never even heard about Salty Droid until that article. So why would that headline have grabbed me to even check it out.
But how about the article itself. How often do you, in that interview — or the person interviewing you — talk about Internet Marketing as being the name for these types of programs.
Zero.
Go back, search for that phrase yourself. The only place you’ll find that phrase even appearing on the entire page is for a sidebar link to Aaron’s own internet marketing tools, which I’m pretty sure have nothing to do with the internet marketing your so upset with or taking me to task over.
Go do this search at Google or Bing:
site:seobook.com “internet marketing”
Go through the pages that come up and see if you can find the few that might even address the type of scams that you and now The Verge are talking about.
All I can tell you is exactly what I said on The Verge, that the type of programs they talk about are pretty disgusting, and I’m glad they — and I gather you — have been exposing them. Great. Seriously, great.
What I disagreed with is The Verge defining all of Internet Marketing as a scam.
As for what the “legit” community is supposed to do, I guess that’s like asking what SEOs who dont’ spam are supposed to do about people who do spam. Wait, why don’t you ask Irwin for the solution to that, because heaven-forbid that if you suggest people not spam the search engines if they don’t want to get banned, that’s not acceptable by some.
Frankly, the type of internet marketing I’m talking about has been as disconnected from the type of “internet marketing” that The Verge wrote about that it’s like me asking The Verge how, as bloggers, they plan to deal with all those crappy blogs that steal content from others?
Trust me, mainstream news publications view bloggers in general as some type of parasites to the degree they even pushed for FTC hearings about possible content theft. By bloggers, they mean even people like The Verge, even though you can bet The Verge would object to being classified with some aggregator, much less some blog scraper.
So shouldn’t they be doing more?
Really, from what I’ve seen, the people who should be doing more are law enforcement agencies.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 1:20 am
@Danny Sullivan ::
Your comment went to spam … my apologies.
a) The reference to the SEOBook article was a joke :: or more appropriately … a dig. Aaron’s been reading this site for years … I guess you haven’t found the time.
b)
Not really … unless you spent six months researching an article in a quest to do something about crappy stolen blogs that were making nice old ladies commit suicide … and then The Verge used their public pull to take a huge shit on it three hours after it published because they are also “bloggers” and they felt their commercial endeavors had been unfairly tainted by association with said lady killers.
And I think if you found the time to read some of their site you’d see that they don’t care to be called a blog. I didn’t really feel like they were “bloggers” when the flew people and lights and cameras to my city for three days. That felt very unbloggerish.
If you don’t know the word “Internet Marketing” is associated with a multi-billion dollar per year online criminal conspiracy … then maybe you shouldn’t opine about it?
Look at this Danny Sullivan …
http://twitter.com/#!/colligan/status/201005814360702978
They’ve all attached to it like a life raft :: it’s ruining the super fantastic anti-cult effect of the The Verge’s very brave generalizations. You’re doing harm during the most important moment so far … in what ultimately amounts to a perception battle.
Which is why the next in my series of follow up posts is …
Danny Sullivan in Scamworld …
Either you take it away from them … or I will.
You’ve demanded a retraction … and now so have I. Let’s see how this goes. It seems that I know you … and you don’t know me … so I like my fucking chances.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 2:46 am
@Danny Sullivan, I proudly give it a thumbs-minus because it forgets to remember about logic-101 and making false analogies.
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Lanna Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 3:53 am
@Danny Sullivan,
Well, I don’t know who started it, but in SEO people who spam are labelled “black hats.”
It’s not quite the same, since legitimate businesses and their affiliates can use “black hat” techniques, and those techniques are not illegal, just against search engines’ guidelines. But it’s a start.
How about an article on SearchEngineLand.com or MarketingLand.com called “Black-Hat Internet Marketers”?
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Wyrd Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 7:15 pm
@Lanna,
Yeah, “Black-Hat Internet Marketers” a.k.a.: The Other 99.9999999999999999%.
(Note to Mr. Danny Sullivan–this comment is intended to be interpreted as snarky,facetious, and true.)
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 4:39 am
@Danny Sullivan,
You wrote:
“What I disagreed with is The Verge defining all of Internet Marketing as a scam.”
The verge wrote:
“There is another, legitimate form of “Internet Marketing” which operates much more closely to a traditional marketing business, but men like Raygoza have co-opted the term and run with it.”
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 5:03 am
@Yakaru,
(They added that bit after @Danny Sullivan asked for it.)
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 6:02 am
@Lanna,
Oh. Thanks. Retraction.
Oldtimer Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 4:43 am
@Danny Sullivan:
I operated a high volume, multi-million dollar business selling hard goods via internet advertising for many years.
I chose those words for good reason.
I was NOT an internet marketer. Not ever.
My company also appeared in the telephone directory, and that never made me a “phone book marketer,” either.
The semantic convention that you cling to like a badge of self-worth and valor (“internet marketer”), is not only a truly useless identifier in the real world, but the PERFECT say-nothing mask for scammers to hide behind in the criminal world.
If your ego weren’t involved, and you turned it entirely over to your rational mind and personal moral compass, you would never assail the illuminating truth in favor of taking a stand over a tainted, mystical buzzphrase that had been co-opted long ago by legions of scammers and posers.
I’d venture to guess that since the advent of that vague, “I’m a wizard! Behold my robe!” buzzphrase, “internet marketer,” more marketing money has been wasted by commercial business, and even more criminal scamming has occurred, than in the preceding 30 years leading up to it.
Man up, Danny. Who’s driving your car? Your ego, or Danny Sullivan? Show some measured thoughtfulness and courage here. You also walk among the victims.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
@Oldtimer,
IMHO, your comment is awesome.
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Who? Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 6:08 am
@SD,
Matt Cutts is part of the wider conspiracy.
He appeared on a website for an invite-only internet marketing mastermind group which included all of the Syndicate members plus a whole load more people.
The page was mysteriously ripped down the following day;
This was a couple of years ago when i was Googling around.
This is why he is so dismissive, he best buddies with these guys.
WINNER!! ::
+9
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Bravo! I read the article and watched the video. Both were incredible. Jason absolutely destroyed that interview, so well spoken and articulate and…well, just really great. While watching it I kept thinking “Oh man, the message is catching on…it’s going mainstream.” Sorry Salty, you do all the swearing and Jason gets all the glory.
I did have to laugh though, when reading the comments, a majority were about the length of the article and one person actually gave the writer shit for “lumping” Toothy Robbins in with the scammers. I guess that particular reader missed that part in the article where the writer explicitly stated that Robbins did a product launch with Kern & Co. (sigh).
But still, progress!
WINNER!! ::
+9
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Wow. In just the first 12 hours, the Verge video has gotten 10,000 direct views on YouTube, and it’s just one partial metric. That’s powerful. This is getting some major traction, and it’s going to snowball.
This blog is destined to become a regular “grocery list” source for media and law enforcement – they are all going to start regularly cruising in here, and they’ll have lots to pick from.
Now would be a really, really bad time to be mentioned anywhere on this blog.
[Reply]
PercyP Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 4:38 am
@Buster McRadar, one place it wont be getting any traction is the Warrior Forum, they are deleting any thread that links to the article:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-hWerivanO0J:www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/596741-scamworld-get-rich-quick-schemes-mutate-into-online-monster.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
@Buster McRadar, don’t forget all the lawyers and attorneys looking to make a career move that come on here looking to play.
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I logged into my favorite chatroom this morning (we talk about a particular space-alien cult) and was greeted with “you can make money online with make money online scams”. Nice work, Mr. Droid.
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Speechless…
So proud of you man…
WINNER!! ::
+8
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How did Ryan Deiss (Perry Belchers long time life/business partner) get skipped over here? He is one of the biggest con men and is in the middle of all of this.
[Reply]
Perry Belcher Belongs In Prison Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
@Rick, On the whole, that video is excellent, and really shines the spotlight into a dark place.
Sadly, hardcore criminal Perry Belcher has gotten away (and continues to get away) with some huge, and incredibly brazen scamming.
FYI for anyone unfamiliar with the saga: Perry Belcher is shown, but not named, in that video (“Some asteroid asshole…”). Belcher is also still on 10 years FELONY probation for selling fake drugs to sick people, and he has VIOLATED his probation many times since then, and continues to scam.
Belcher absolutely, positively should have been sent to prison several years ago, and there is plenty of justification to send him there NOW. He is a psychopath. For the record, Ryan Deiss of Austin Texas, is the front man for Belcher today.
http://saltydroid.info/rated-g-reports/perry-belcher/
All the Perry Belcher posts here (in reverse order, so start at the end of the list if this is new to you and work your way forward):
http://saltydroid.info/category/perry-belcher/
[Reply]
Awesome job! But why did they have you taking so many drinks in the beginning?
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SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
@Rafael Marquez ::
Maybe that video will go viral and I’ll get a free lifetime supply of the world’s most delicious soda …
http://drinkgus.com/
… which I will :: of course :: disclose in short order so as to not fall afoul of FTC guidelines … knowing as I do how effective they are at enforcing these alleged guidelines.
[Reply]
Frank Kern responds:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=377834625596464&id=137568852956377
Maybe your next blog post can dissect his response.
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
Who? Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 9:24 am
@Alejandro,
Lots of Kern Butt-Fuckers in there!
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Egg? Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 10:01 am
@Who?,
Posted a very quick and dirty response, let’s wait how long it’ll take for the IM-acolytes to label me as a hater or troll.
Btw, I’m Clark.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
@Alejandro ::
… count on it.
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Kern Is Spinning It Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
@Alejandro, I was initially thinking that there are a lot of DELUDED people kissing Frank’s dubious ass in the comments of his Facebook propaganda. But I’ve changed my mind. Most of those people are no better than he is, and are of similar character (or lacking thereof).
One of Frank’s sycophants actually suggested people flag the Verge video as “spam.” Too late for that, douchebag.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
@Kern Is Spinning It,
Some of those commenting in Frank’s defense might be dicks, true.
Some of them are just stuck in a vicious cycle of self-delusion.
Spending $100s or $1000s on something stupid tends to push you to one extreme or another–either it causes to wake up very fast and realize you’ve been scammed, or else it causes you to separate yourself further from reality in order to maintain your belief in the thing that you’ve just sunk a ton of cash into.
Also, cult of personality thing comes in here. There are a lot of people that think Frank is cool. So when they see Frank get dissed they honestly feel bad for him. And they assume that whoever is attacking him must be mean. ‘strue, this is how human psychology works.
Frank can’t be friends with me though. There’s way too many Facts In Evidence to allow that to happen. Stuff like:
* admitting to setting up a price fixing cartel and either not understanding or not caring that it’s both ethically wrong and (criminally?) illegal.
* encouraging others to set up similar cartels
* trying to sell people a step by step plan for which he freely admits (and even tries to use as a selling point) that at least two of the steps are “a little bit evil”
* having an FTC judgement against him for a very large sum–which serves as indication that even the slow, lethargic, myopic FTC found grounds to go after Frank
* generally “talking out of both sides of his mouth” like the proverbial snake in the grass.
A person like that can smile and lie to you and make you believe it. You can’t ever trust someone like that. Not ever.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
@Alejandro,
Filthsame was given an “I don’t do boiler rooms”, and “boiler rooms are bad” soapbox, so the rest of the clowns “adapted”, and are now using the “boiler rooms are bad, and I don’t use them” defense. They are practically saints!
It’s the same fucking shit that is happening in the Pierce camp. A few fucking employee morons (I say that with all due respect) put affiliates on pedestals, and now people are all like, “Pierce bad; Affiliates are victims!” Not only are affiliates propagating false and misleading information for the Pierces, the pagans, the lyttles, but also including misleading claims of their own to sell the fraud.
These circus clowns are NOTHING without affiliates. Until affiliates are brought to task for their participation in these frauds, nothing will change. If there are no consequences, there is no reason for them to stop. Putting them on pedestals is fucking stupid!
@Who?,
The “butt-fuckers” as you refer to them are mostly affiliates, and other ASSorted frauds.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Really man?
This is how you’re going to do me now.
Dishonestly … cloaked?
Don’t bother coming back then.
And for the record … you are fucking wrong.
1) Some of the affiliates are part of the victim pool even though they are doing harm themselves. That’s been part of the story here since the beginning. Have I ever lobbied for affiliates to get their part of the blood money? Ever?
No.
That’s victim money … not their money. Who gives a shit what this or that confused person says in these nutty comments? I’ve never fought for affiliates … and I never will.
2) They ALWAYS said they didn’t use boiler rooms … Filthsame’s “soapbox” put it on the record like a motherfucker. If you can’t see why I did that now … then you’re no where near as smart as I always thought you were.
[Reply]
Melkor Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 12:06 am
@SD, Well, Filsaime can claim he doesn’t do boiler rooms all he wants, but I fell for one of his newsletter pitches in 2009 and got a call from Russel Brunsons’ coaching floor soon after.
Since he did ask for my phone number as part of the sales process I was expecting that to happen; I put my real number in just to see his sales process in action
‘Course being on disability and not actually having a credit card (just a direct debit one) meant no real danger of falling for the pitch in any case, but the poor sod who called me was so clearly out of his depth when he was reading from the sales script that a couple jokes from me was enough to throw him off. When he was off the script he sounded like a reasonable human being, possibly with a future in sales for real products. When he was on-script he sounded a lot like a third-rate Troma actor reading his lines with just a slight note of shame and horror from having to listen to the words coming out of his mouth.
Not that this is news to anyone who reads the article, Filsaime selling leads to Prosper is right there.
[Reply]
Alejandro Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Browsing through the comments of the link I posted, I spotted this exchange between a guy named John Polk and Frank Kern:
(John Polk)
Any internet marketer who sells “how to make money” needs to stop ranting about how they are so different than the rest of the “how to make money” croud. The droid is an extreme view but is doing a valuable service to consumers. If no one challenges the top internet marketers, who is?
(Frank Kern)
Don’t get me wrong, John Polk. I AM an Internet Marketer. And I am proud to be one. However, I am not an Internet Marketer who does business with boiler rooms, harms consumers, fixes prices, uses false testimonials, does forced continuity, or sells biz-opp.
.
.
.
Frank Kern doesn’t harm consumers or sell biz-opp stuff?
First:
The FTC seemed to think Frank Kern has harmed consumers when they sued him:
http://saltydroid.info/frank-kern-underachieving/
Second:
Frank Kern admits he is in the biz-opp business:
http://saltydroid.info/main-street-marketing-machines-fusion-shitstorm/
More specifically, in this audio:
http://saltydroid.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/biz-op-with-an-internet-marketing-wrapper.mp3
Here’s the essential part (roughly starting at 1:33 to 1:47):
What we’re in is the business opportunity business, really. In the market space that we [...] but you know, if I were mailing my list [...] that’s biz-opp man, with an wrapper around it of Internet marketing but it’s really biz-opp.
.
.
.
My humble advice to Frank Kern?
It’s probably time to “retire” from Internet marketing, for good.
Want to know what’s sad?
There is and interview Frank did many years ago where he talked about being able to stay home and have lunch with his wife and daughters.
That really made an impression on me and I thought he was such an awesome guy for being a faithful husband and being successful enough in business to be able to provide for his family and spend time with them.
In a lot of ways, I feel betrayed and suckered.
Frank asks the following in his Facebook response:
“If I’m so terrible and Jeff Walker is so bad – where are the legions of dissatisfied customers?”
In other words, why isn’t Bob complaining?
Bob is the customer avatar Frank created that represents his average Internet marketing customer. He talks about this topic in his “core influence” presentation.
According to Frank, Bob is afraid of loss and embarrassment. Bob also wants respect and credibility.
Is it therefore any surprise that Bob doesn’t complain or cause any waves?
.
.
.
The Salty Droid can be viewed, in some ways, as being the “avatar” version of all the angry Bob’s of the world. Bob’s who feels betrayed and fed up.
It’s often said that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
Perhaps.
But this I know.
Hell hath no fury like an infuriated Bob.
Long live The Salty Droid.
WINNER!! ::
+18
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
@Alejandro :: awesome. Just awesome. +10
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 12:52 am
@Alejandro ::
Nice.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 11:02 am
@Alejandro, It’s proof that reading SD-Site is possible! Awesome summary.
[Reply]
Shit Storm Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 5:44 am
@Alejandro,
You could go they every name and find that they all sell a course of some kind on how to in the internet marketing biz op space
Nathan Amaral – guess what he does for a living…wait for it – personal coach – he will teach you his personal steps to success..YEAA NATHAN!
Charlie Magleid – he sells a an online marketing system to businesses…what a fucking surprise
Michale worthington – calls himself a full time internet marketer and people who inspire him are Sean Casey, Armond Morin, Michael Penland and Yanik Silver…he’s just a C team fanboy
Tim Daugs – makes his money being an autoresponder marketing expert
Ken dumas – makes his big monies in mobile marketing to the masses
Ernesto Verdugo – sells a must have guide for all internet users on USEFUL websites and is affiliated with unlimited power online
[Reply]
Got picked up on Boing Boing this morning, too.
http://boingboing.net/2012/05/11/incredibly-detailed-look-at-in.html
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
@mojo ::
OMG … nerdgasmic!
[Reply]
lol finally!
It is scary that such a giant-ass article as that one on The Verge only scratches the surface.
I hope this starts to get main-stream traction so Oprah and Tony havsta publicly apologize (or commit ritual seppuku or something).
Good job SaltyDroid. And nice monitor.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
@Doctor Mario ::
Oprah should apologize :: it’s never too late … and it would be the most important of things.
Tony Robbins should fly into the sun. He can stuff his sorries in a sack.
PS :: Please don’t call my iMac a “monitor” … it’s rude.
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
@SD :: Oprah can share the sun-bound spaceship in my book.
She’s done more harm than the whole Syndicate combined … by validating & popularizing innumerable scams, frauds, and actual murderers over her “career”. I’d rather not imagine how many of the crooks mentioned here got their start (or a major boost) from that fat-bundle-O!-shit.
I can only have faith that her time (and Tony’s) will come sooner than later. And when it comes, believe you me, you will be getting a big pat on the back from this guy.
I can’t wait for the day when the Salty Droid starts {targeting} big sharks like O! … after the IM/MMO world is left as nothing but a pile of smoking rubble & incarcerated felons in your wake.
PS :: I knew that one would piss you off… I never figured the Droid for a Mac-tard! What, are you like a graphic designer / video editor / music producer on the side or something?
[Reply]
Sentient Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-5
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
@Sentient ::
Tony Robbins can’t cure anyone of anything … because he has no training. The only thing he’s qualified to do is take other people’s money … that he’s mercilessly good at.
He is the most harmful man in all of Scamworld.
I haven’t really started on that story yet … because it’s all about timing.
wink wink.
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
@SD :: kudos on your patience Droid. Timing indeed.
Christoph Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
@SD,
Your premise is flawed: that to help someone you require training (or even that Tony Robbins has none).
Yeah, the guy hurt me personally with his rubbish and yeat, I’m sure he’s hurt more than he’s helped.
But some people he’s helped, NLP (if only because it is a model for communicating and communicating can sometimes change people in positive ways), unscientific claptrap though it may be, has helped people, etc.
And Robbins knows a bit about it. I mean, it DOES work somewhat for persuasion. And he persuades, right?
I’m just saying Tony Robbins has helped no one ever isn’t a true statement. Done lots more harm than good? I’ll buy that, sure.
Duff Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
@SD,
Robbins does have some skills, but his skills serve his primary agenda–more money, power, and fame for himself. That’s why the emotional peak of UPW is his multiple hours long sales pitch with techniques taken from Stanley Milgram’s Obedience experiment and elsewhere for his “Mastery University”…because that’s what UPW is all about–more money for Tony.
Christoph Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
@Sentient,
That said, I wouldn’t say I’m totally convinced the video was legit.
It could well be fraud a la Benny Hinn healings.
BUT … at least Robbins’ reasoning in this is sort of plausible. Unlike Hinn’s.
[Reply]
Ray Ray Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
@Christoph, I’ll take Benny Hinn. No firewalking, and his teeth aren’t as scary.
Wyrd Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 10:27 pm
@Sentient,
Are you really sure there is value?
I mean… considering the fact that these guys are willing to lie lie lie and pretend to be experts at marketing when they’re not, isn’t it possible that the thing with the stuttering guy was, you know, staged? rigged for your benefit and that of all the other viewers?
Charlatans have been doing stuff like that since forevers.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Sentient Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 1:12 am
@Wyrd,
I agree that’s a good working assumption. If you can’t touch it, be skeptical.
All of these 1 on 1 videos you see of Tony find their origin in the training he put together with Cloe Madanes. Cloe Madanes (who does have a very long career in psychotherapy and partnered with Tony) followed up with that guy afterwards. Apparently he had his ups and downs after the filming, one of the issues being that he felt stupid having carried around a stutter for 28 years when someone else waltzes in and helps him solve it in < 1 hour. Presumably Cloe, Tony or someone helped him get over that if they were following up with him in the first place.
Is that really proof that any of this still exists? No. It makes the number of people who have to be in on it larger and includes someone (Cloe Madanes) who probably wouldn't want to be associated knowingly with a fraud. She built her reputation long before Tony came along.
I see stuff like this and some of it is genuinely impressive. Of course, what Duff said is just disgusting. That was my original point though…it'd be nice if there was some enforcement against horrendous marketing tactics. That way people with value (Tony or anyone for that matter) would be forced to comply and the temptation to self aggrandize would be tempered with legal consequences. Yes, that's a pipe dream I know. In the end, I'm not sure my point is really even that important at all.
Hopefully it's clear that I'm certainly not here to defend his marketing which makes me sad and sick.
[...] SaltyDroid, Syndicates on The Verge More Reading: Scamworld: ‘Get rich quick’ schemes mutate into an online monster [...]
Great news that the droid is getting greater traction. Still much to be done. Too many yes men at the lower levels of the IM hierarchy manage to consistently con. Have a look at this discussion chain as an example – http://www.affilorama.com/forum/affiliate-hangout/does-affilorama-really-work-t14056.html NB – the dissenter in this discussion had his comment status changed to ‘moderated’ and is not allowed to make any further comments. Joining these wretched ‘communities’ and ensuring subtle dissent helps the truth disseminate.
[Reply]
Good job! About time you got the recognition you deserve, Salty. I’ve now spent hours reading your blog and you seem really dedicated to your cause, plus you’re hilarious. Keep up the good work!
[Reply]
I’m a bit late to the party but just now saw this, and am sharing it every way I can. Congrats, SD! Perhaps this is a sign of real progress.
[Reply]
@SD — Congratulations on finally getting some of the mainstream attention your efforts deserve. It’s about fucking time…but I’m sure you agree.
I’m also sure you’ll agree this is funny…an email I just got from Kern, apparently right after his posting of his “defense” to the whole Verge blast. Note in particular his disclaimer at the end…WOW!
=============================
SUBJECT: NEW: case study brings in $1MM part time.
This is so crazy. I tried this experiment 9 months ago
and it brought me over $1,000,000.00 in sales.
I’m teaching a LIVE webinar on it (no charge)
and you’re invited. It’ll be on Wednesday, May 16th.
Details here
It’s weird because I used this technique that was
pioneered by the GOVERNMENT (of all people)
back in 1870.
I think this may be the “missing link” in marketing
and I’d love to walk you through it.
Join me on this webinar as my guest :-)
Talk soon,
Frank
P.S. This is really the damndest thing ever. I didn’t
even realize how well it did until my bookkeeper
brought it up.
Hooray for bookkeepers lol.
Anyway – join me on this. You’ll dig it.
P.P.S. This is a LIVE webinar and I’ll be doing Q&A at
the end.
I’m using GoTo Webinar for this one, and it can hold
1,000 people.
So register now and secure your spot.
P.P.P.S. This is supposed to be the fine print part.
You know – the part where I tell you my results aren’t
typical and that your results may vary.
I think fine print is for pussies. So here’s BIG PRINT.
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY,
WE BOTH KNOW DAMN GOOD AND WELL
THAT JUST BECAUSE I TESTED SOME COOL
PROMOTIONAL TACTICS AND MADE A BUNCH
OF MONEY DOESN’T MEAN (OR IMPLY) THAT
THE SAME WILL HAPPEN TO YOU OR ANYBODY
ELSE.
I’VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 13 YEARS THIS OCTOBER
AND IT TOOK A LOT OF VERY, VERY HARD WORK
TO GET TO WHERE I AM TODAY.
THERE IS NO PRODUCT, WEBINAR, SEMINAR, GURU,
COACHING PROGRAM, POTION, OR ANYTHING
ELSE THAT WILL MAKE YOU SUCCESSFUL.
YOU HAVE TO WORK LIKE A PSYCHOTIC ANIMAL
…RELENTLESSLY REACHING FOR YOUR GOALS.
THE ONLY GUARANTEE YOU CAN COUNT ON
IS THIS: YOU WILL EXPERIENCE HARSHIP.
YOU WILL EXPERIENCE FAILURE. YOU WILL
EXPERIENCE DISAPPOINTMENT.
IT IS IN THE MOMENTS THAT YOU GET UP,
BRUSH YOURSELF OFF, AND CLIMB BACK INTO
THE RING TO CONTINUE FIGHTING THAT YOU WILL
FIND SUCCESS.
IF THIS IS TOO MUCH FOR YOU, GET OFF MY
LIST.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-5
[Reply]
Luther Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
@I used to post on this site a lot…,
Gosh. I never knew there was so much to be said about two sides of a coin. I went and looked at some of my coins just now. But I can’t think of much to say about them. Which coin were you talking about? If it was a U.S. dime coin, next time maybe you can talk about both sides of a U.S. quarter. I’ll be waiting right here eating my sunflower seeds.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 4:02 am
@I used to post on this site a lot…,
And just who “were” you when you “used to post a lot”? LOL
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
Why has this post been modded down to hidden?
Sure, the parent-poster is rambling. He/she seems to be generally implying that “all people buy lots of stupid crap they don’t really need.” It didn’t seem like he/she was saying that scammers don’t deserve to get they come uppance–just that in the grand scheme of things, we’re all guilty of repeatedly buying “noisy shiny crap” and in that way we all help support the wider machinations of stupid, pointless things that don’t add value.
…
I mean, ok, so maybe he/she’s off topic and so the post probably shouldn’t get some high +8/+10 vote, but why -5?
I think folks jumped the gun when they saw the handle. (I might have missed something, but,) I didn’t see anything in the body of the post to indicate that this person has an axe to grind regarding either @SD or the mission of this site.
It just seems that he/she’s of the rambling philosopher bent and that he/she probably isn’t particularly passionate about the vile scourge of IM-MMO. So? I don’t see that as a good reason for a mod-down, but rather just as a good reason to not mod up.
Please tell me if I’m wrong.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Uncle Ralph Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 1:11 am
@Wyrd: Yes, that is what they are “generally implying.” However, blaming the victim for their participation doesn’t typically go over well. That’s like saying, “Sure, they lied to you and deceived you, but if you hadn’t gotten so carried away by it…”
The point this person misses is that it is not a level playing field. The customer is missing a key element: THE TRUTH. It also DOES NOT MATTER what the motivations of the defrauded are. There is no inherent right, justification, or acceptable excuse to defraud people under any circumstance, regardless of what inspires those people to believe the lies.
[Reply]
Danny Sullivan’s article-response:
http://marketingland.com/internet-marketing-isnt-scam-11713
Commenter Jake Luddington says:
…which inlcudes th “I didn’t get rich…but got great education”…which can mostly usually translate into, “Shit. My refund period is over, better figure out how I can justify this one to my brain.”
WINNER!! ::
+13
[Reply]
Jake Ludington Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-11
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
@Jake Ludington :: I hope that you torrented (or copied from friends) and didn’t pay for those Yanik Silver, Jeff Walker, and Eben Pagan frauducts. As you are a computer guy, I like to imagine this is the likelihood.
If you did spend moneyz, you better spend some time reading this site.
The only education you can legitimately get from those “Internet Marketing” ass-hats is in copying what they DO, not what they TEACH …
(i.e. — make illegally exaggerated claims & build a syndicate to generate leads … then follow-up with boiler room sales ops to bleed those suckers dry!)
Because the stuff they teach … their “Internet Marketing” “techniques” … don’t work. Otherwise, riddle me this :: If that shit works so good to make big-moneyz ::
Why wouldn’t they practice what they preach?
That’s certainly not how they market & sell their own crapola.
If you want to run a real, legitimate business :: why waste your time using scam-tactics (what they DO) or proven fail-tactics (what they “TEACH”)?
You can’t! You either become a scammer by following their example, or you become a failure by following their “advice.”
If you are actually paying for their dubious “content” … definitely stop. Seriously, your money could be way better spent.
Like, on actual advertising. Or on carrot cake recipes.
Anything is better than feeding the human-meat-grinder machine and padding the pockets of those psycho-frauds.
WINNER!! ::
+12
[Reply]
Glad I Was Broke Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
@Doctor Mario,
Oh, common Doctor!!! Stop asking difficult questions! Why do you have to do that?
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
@Jake Ludington, It’s probably because I forgot the 36-Red-Georgia-Font “Quick-And-Easy Copy-And-Paste Method For Making The Names Perfect Every Single Time!”
Is it true about mr. Walker have a Trademark on the term “Internet Marketing” like he tells us about at how to get rich where he says to us about his site being:
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Dale Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 6:12 pm
@Jake Ludington, “Talk smack” must be your code for “common sense.” While you seem to be capable of identifying common sense elsewhere (like here), you’ve failed to harness it yourself.
Here’s some common sense (smack) for you:
“Only a fool goes on public record to support and promote scammers.”
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
It’s something that can get easily missed by reading the article.
[Reply]
Hans Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
@Jack, I guess we know on which side Ludington’s tongue is buttered. And maybe where it’s been.
[Reply]
Jake Ludington Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 12:25 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-5
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 4:05 am
@Jake Ludington,
Frank Kern was deemed pretty enough for the top graphic, but he isn’t even mentioned in the text until the second section. I think @Jack’s trying to say that if you actually read the article instead of looking at the pictures, you’ll find Kern isn’t the primary target. The article targets an ensemble of IMers. No individual is the primary target.
Frankly, Kern is making a mountain out of a molehill. The three things Flatley reports about Kern are:
- The FTC issued a judgement against his work-at-home pyramid scheme “Instant Internet Empires,” which Kern usually claims as a badge of honor.
- It’s rumored Kern used iWorks, which he doth protest too much.
- Quotes that are pulled straight from videos of Kern, which he says are taken out of context.
He’s pulled a Naomi Dunford with his lengthy Facebook response: he pointed his faithful list to an article about the scams in which he’s involved.
[Reply]
Lance Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 8:20 am
@Lanna,
“Kern is making a mountain out of a molehill.”
I’d like to see the FTC make a molehill out of Frank’s b.s. mountain, something they failed to do the first time around.
WINNER!! ::
+7
Joe Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 8:42 am
@Jake Ludington, “Targeting?” That’s a defensive term. Are you going on record here defending Kern’s “business” activities? It absolutely sounds like you are.
Of all the people who have been busted by the FTC, you chose Frank Kern to put on a pedestal. What was it about Frank’s scammy ways that made you look up to him? Was it his ability to suck some unsuspecting human being’s mastercard clean in a single convoluted pitch, or just that devious, evil grin? Does he have you on retainer, or simply wrapped around his lubricated, middle finger?
If this should ever lead to soul searching, I’d suggest NOT referring to any framed parchment hanging over your desk that reads, “What Would Frank Do?” That’s because, if you used that for guidance, you might feel pressed to shaft someone’s ailing grandmother.
[Reply]
@Jake Ludington,
I don’t think Jack wanted to smack you, but I might be wrong.
[Reply]
Droid, it may be my UK bias but I really thought Jason would be…you know…well…fatter. And with an apartment less likely to make me envious ;-)
Way to go, both of you.
WINNER!! ::
+11
[Reply]
It’s interesting how some of the featured scammers have been begging the fools on their mailing lists to shill for them in the youtube comments. It’s all futile though, given that this has gone mainstream.
However, their desperate reaction says it all, and proves what bad apples they truly are.
Case closed, scambags. Hope you all end up behind bars.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
@Truth 101 :: If possible, can you post some of those begging mailings here?
My junk{hot}mail acct that I use to subscribe to that crap is so overrun I cannot sift thru the garbage … but that shit sounds funny.
Desperate scammers begging their victims FTW!
Thanks if you (or anyone else) can share with us the Scambags’ own words as their fall from grace goes mainstream.
[Reply]
The vile Dwarf strikes back on Facebook!
http://www.facebook.com/mikefilsaime
Always good to see who his supporters are!
And his email response to Joseph Flatley:
http://screencast.com/t/xs1jKqMn
[Reply]
Filsaime Is A Game Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
“Mike Filsaime: Ron thanks. I am glad so many see this as not an attack on those in the article, but an attack on our entire industry.”
Of course Mike wants people to mistakenly think it’s not about SCAMMERS. That way, he isn’t held up to scrutiny. Filsaime wants it to be someone ELSE’S problem.
What a despicable douchebag Mike Filsaime is.
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 11:02 pm
@Filsaime Is A Game :: LOL! He said his “industry” …
Of fraud?
Instead of pissing & moaning, if I were him and I wanted to prove I wasn’t a scammer, I’d just point to the loads of success stories my advice had generated.
Like :: URLs :: a big list of them :: of people using my methods to make big online moneyz :: and you can too!
Filthshame should haz loads of high authority, highly profitable web sites of “customers” to which he can point … right?
(since it is Internet Marketing after all … right?)
But I’m not him, and he can’t do that. Because he’s a scammer. There are no success stories (other than his Syndicate butt-buddies & their B- and C-Team Affiliate clone-slaves)!
PWND!
Or, how bout it Filthshame? Instead of whining like a little bitch … why don’t you just send an email to Joe Flatley with a list of all your “successful” “customers” & their URL’s :: and prove to him how they are living their big moneyz interwebz lifestyles (thanks to you).
But no. Because you are an asshat. And a fraud. An IM/MMO snake-oil-unicorn-moneyz-salesman. And you’d prefer to bitch about Prosper not appearing on record and journalistic integrity of >90% and nonsense like that … Good job.
I hope you get repeatedly booty-raped in a prison cell for all eternity. Or at least for 5-10 years.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 10:59 pm
@NeverBurnedAgain ::
I can’t see the Facebook post somebody copy and paste it for me.
That’s a funny email though.
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 11:38 pm
@SD :: Here is the post & the thread of comments below it. The comments are just as funny, since everyone who is saying “Yay brother” to Filthshame are fellow IM/MMO scammers … His fellow “industry” …
Then the email screenshot. Then …
(edited for space & content … and the lame “Hur dur you go girl” replies have been deleted unless their author was a blatantly scam-tacular IM/MMO’er — then their FB links were {painstakingly} replaced with links to their homepages to provide a cross-section of the type of duped n00bs who support Mr. Filthshame’s whining & bitching email posting) …
I especially like that last comment. While the author, Mr. Stolting, is being ironic when he speaks of the “only $1997″ ebook w/ the $97 continuity plan … I think he shows the mentality of this whole lot.
Fucking ass-clown scammers, living in a deluded cult fantasy that thinks anyone other than their fellow duped n00b scammers will pay $1997 + $97/mo for ebooks.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 11:56 pm
@Doctor Mario :: If it wasn’t such a pain, I would do this same thing to the comments board on Frank Irwin Kern’s response message on FB as well. I just noticed how all those respondents who are like “You go girl” to Franky-boy are all equally guilty of being duped IM/MMO n00bs regurgitating the same played out unicorn messages on their own “business” websites. Maybe another time, that one already has >140 comments atm…
It is interesting to see how the cult members rally around their leaders when under attack. Scary stuff.
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 4:00 am
@Doctor Mario,
Some of Frank Irwin Kern’s fans are pretty fucking disturbing.
(That David Canham link is full of Lorem Ipsums [and not even Vegan Bacon Ipsums], so here’s David Canham on Warrior Forum and on YouTube promoting JV PhD with Willie Crawford.)
Rein in your cultists, Frank! Muzzle ‘em before we hafta cage ‘em!
[Reply]
Wow Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 9:33 am
@Lanna, That certainly exemplifies the type of “people” Frank most resonates with. Those people, and Frank, need to be visited by the F.B.I. Perhaps they will be.
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 11:32 am
@Lanna, I wonder if they know about that mr. Kern thinks they’re all retarded
WINNER!! ::
+8
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 11:38 am
@Lanna, not to mention supporting someone using The R Word is like supporting somebody using the “N” word.
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
@Lanna :: Thanks for doing that! I didn’t want to go thru that whole process again.
It is really funny how the only people supporting those dirt-bags are their cult members who are also chasing the interwebz-unicorn-moneyz.
I especially like how in each list of “supporters” a portion of their “businesses” are based on wildly unfinished (or entirely non-existent) websites.
Retarded indeed (sorry @Jack).
Lanna Reply:
May 11th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
@SD,
Done. Check your email.
[Reply]
PercyPennyWhilstle Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 3:17 am
@NeverBurnedAgain, these guys don’t have anywhere near the same size following as they used to, just check out the number of “likes” his Facebook rebuttal has received – only 15 in 12 hours!
I get more likes than that when I post a picture of a homemade pizza.
[Reply]
Wow Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 9:35 am
@PercyPennyWhilstle, Don’t give those scumbags ideas. They might start posting pictures of homemade pizzas.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 11:53 am
@NeverBurnedAgain, mr. Filsaime should have proved his legitimacy by showing Joseph his flagship products:
http://www.free-advertising-blog.com/ (for how the legitimate Internet Advertising works)
http://www.listdotcom.com/homepage.php?
http://www.blastyourad.com/
For how the legitimate email marketing works.
http://www.instantbuzz.com/
Which is how the big legit companies do their viral marketing.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
@Jack :: I never knew those “products” … after seeing that crap, I never thought I’d think this thought, but :: Even spammers are more elegant than Filthshame! Spammers FTW! IM-Syndicate for the cages!
[Reply]
Amazeballs. (TY!)
[Reply]
Salty you look even more handsome than I thought you would. Plus, you make nerds look sexy with all the slamming of scamming and the hilariously wild snark. Maybe you’ll have 3 marriage proposals like Maria Andros said she did after her video. I can just see Sandy Jenkins, Ed Stale Dale, and Misses Ebbie Deangelo Pagan lining up for your hand in marriage.
[Reply]
[...] [...]
Laura Betterly defending Ryan Deiss et al…at PerfomInsider post about ScamWorld:
[Reply]
Ray Ray Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 7:15 pm
@Jack, Turns out she worked for Deiss. What a crock!
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 4:37 am
@Jack,
People on the inside are never lying to themselves and everyone else about aiding and abetting a scam to avoid the cognitive dissonance of the truth that would make them cut themselves. They always know everything that’s going on, and they’re never taken in by a villain’s charisma. No one ever lies to protect the people who sign their paychecks. And you can totally trust marketing professionals with purple hair and weird, overexposed pictures of themselves. (I look just like my picture: pale and round.)
I do like the part where Laura Betterly calls Harlan Kilstein’s claims “bullshit”:
You hear that, Harlan?
[Reply]
Dale Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 11:28 am
@Lanna, Except I don’t much care for the part where she dismisses that excellent Verge article as only “conjecture” and “opinion,” says you shouldn’t get your “facts” from this blog, and blindly praises Deiss.
Feel free to add your thoughts to that discussion, folks:
http://performinsider.com/2012/05/the-verge-exposes-frank-kern-and-mike-filsaime/
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 10:50 pm
@Lanna,
I can tell that his “life of a copywriter” video is bullshit because a “copywriter” is a person that writes copy and, at no time during the video did he, in fact, sit down at either a computer or typewriter and actually fucking write anything. (Or if he did it was only like 5 frames in there somewhere and I missed it whilest skipping ahead through the bland, emptiness that he calls a video.)
He looks stupid. Oh–also his video isn’t like inspiring or exciting. I mean, his video doesn’t make me want to give him all my monies. So, separate from moral values of right and wrong and all the rest, I’m gonna have to rate that video an F for utter Failure. It’s like a Mystery Science Theater episode. It’s like a really bad Mystery Science Theater episode. Thank the FSM it’s so short.
(His is the kind of uber-lame con that would not work on me even at my moments of highest vulnerability or gullibility.)
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
@Lanna, lol. SD’s 2-year-old comment beneath video:
[Reply]
Fantastic article and video. Congratulations!
As a scam-fighting hipster though, I want to say that I knew you before you were popular.
[Reply]
2nd WF post about ScamWorld…let countdown to link-removal start NOW…
http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/598188-scamworld-what-do-you-think.html
[Reply]
Head Honcho Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
@Jack, Boom. Gone in a flash it seems. Warrior Forum is getting to be pretty predictable. If it’s a REAL forum, it seems this would be a topic worthy of serious discussion. If that’s what it was all really about. If it was real. If….
[Reply]
PercyPennyWhistle Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
@Jack, I’ve seen a lot of people start threads on it but they’ve all been deleted, some are still alive in the Google cache though:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aScgFlaNLyEJ:www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/597400-kern-filsaime-boiler-rooms-prosper-co-what-outside-world-thinks-im.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-hWerivanO0J:www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/596741-scamworld-get-rich-quick-schemes-mutate-into-online-monster.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8YIJ7s9nAQUJ:www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/596777-get-rich-quick-schemes-mutate-into-online-monster.html+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NPLb7hxlljgJ:www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/597428-im-gurus-called-scammers-make-headlines.html+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera
[Reply]
Carlos Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
@Jack, Pro-scammer censorship at the Warrior Forum. Typical. One day maybe we will get the news that the Feds have arrested the owner and moderators over there.
[Reply]
Andrew Sullivan …
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/05/the-world-of-internet-scams.html
[Reply]
I would love to know if these dipshits knew this was coming, or if they woke up to a full inbox of frantic emails screaming that they had better go watch this video. I can just see Irwin watching this video while trashing his presidential office. It’s about time that hillbilly got his due.
Anybody interested in a divorce pool? How long will it be before his new wife leaves and takes everything she can? I have to believe that his ex-wife would love to sit down with Jason and spill her guts. Not wanting to see her kids’ dad in jail probably prevents it though.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
@Mitch, The technical term they made for SD was pimple on our ass.
[Reply]
Louis Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
@Jack, Don’t forget convicted felon Perry Belcher’s technical term, which was shown in the ScamWorld video: “Some Asteroid Asshole.”
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
@Mitch ::
They should have had some idea because Flatley has been snooping around talking to people for months and months. But they’re not too perceptive … and they couldn’t really have known how it was going to go. I didn’t really know how it was going to go either.
They certainly didn’t know that it was going to be called “Scamworld” … pretty much the best/worst possible outcome depending on if you are me or them.
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 4:49 am
@SD,
When I saw the title “Scamworld,” I thought it would be a roundup of all the ScamWorld 2012 speakers. I was a little disappointed.
[Reply]
Light Bulb Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 11:31 am
@Lanna, Great idea for a followup! :)
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
@Lanna @SD,
When I saw “Scamworld” I was actually hoping it might be a feature length documentary. There’s certainly more than enough material.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Look who else was displeased:
https://www.facebook.com/pat.obryan/posts/312557915490338
In case you can’t get to the page, his comment is:
“Swiftboating Internet Marketing- and very poorly done, too.”
Accompanying the comment are links not to the Verge piece but to the video on YouTube. No comments on the thread so far…
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
@Cosmic Connie ::
If I was allowed to have a Facebook account I would go say …
“What a timely political reference … reminds me of the Taft administration.”
[Reply]
Wally Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
@Cosmic Connie, That’s funny. Where does Pat find the time to make such incredibly dumb comments? Isn’t he already busy enough making regular dumb comments? I figured Joe’s #1 ass-kisser only got worked up when he ran out of pork rinds. Or maybe has a nightmare about being dislodged from Joe’s colon, the only home he’s ever known.
[Reply]
I find it interesting that Seth Godin came out with a blog post about making money online about a day or two before this story went live. Think he had a tip?
This line from the post is especially interesting:
Don’t pay anyone for simple and proven instructions on how to achieve this goal. In particular, don’t pay anyone to teach you how to write or sell manuals or ebooks about how to make money online.
Ummm, isn’t he a contributor to Copyblogger? The site that promises you leads and traffic and clicks and is tied to the third tribe crap? All, which if memory serves correctly, have a pay funnel for information about how to make money online and how to write ebooks.
[Reply]
Look at this fucking hipster …
… wait for it …
… wait for it …
… The New Yorker.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/05/weekend-reading.html
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
@SD, Ha. Maybe mr. Filsaime will give him an email-ramble.
[Reply]
E. Crumpton Burpston II Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
@SD, I would also like to see it published in the esteemed literary journals, “The FTC Docket,” and “The Attorneys General Review.”
[Reply]
Frank Kern – definition from Dictionary.com
actually for the word “kern” but,how righteous is that!!!
“An Irish peasant, especially a crude or boorish one.”
[Reply]
Dain Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 8:16 pm
@Dain, No results found for filsame:let me give my def!.”feel same” or “feel shame” just like me!…i.e. “i want you to fil the same or fil no shame”, got it?…so do it bitch!!!
[Reply]
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
@Dain, It’s the most intelligent comment from you I can see here.
[Reply]
Frank Kern recently responded to this: http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=377834625596464&id=137568852956377 in case anyone wants to see what he thinks.
It’s funny how so many people defend him. I guess the whole “mass control” through cartel tactics is working well on his supporters. Too bad their so deep into this scam that they are too blind to see what is happening.
[Reply]
dain Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-6
[Reply]
Sheldon Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
@dain, What is wrong with caring about something? I guess you need to train your mind to associate care as a negative emotion if you want to be successful at selling “Make $143,631 a month online” products.
You know what else is funny? You care that I care! Caring all around weeeeee!
[Reply]
Eric G Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 1:31 am
@Sheldon,
I see that over 20,000 people have liked his post.
Speechless . . . .
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 1:40 am
@Eric G :: over 20,000 people have liked the page “Frank Kern” … atm only 329 have liked his “response” post.
Remember as well, that he & other Syndicate butt-buddies have been often caught using fake accts to build “social proof” in these types of social media scenarios … so it might not be >20,000 people who have “liked” Frank Kern … but rather >20,000 people+bots.
[Reply]
Eric G Reply:
May 13th, 2012 at 6:39 am
@Doctor Mario,
Sorry about that. Misread the numbers on my phone :-)
Agree about the people + bots. Fake fans come cheap on Fiverr.
[Reply]
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-9
[Reply]
Mitch Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 11:07 pm
@Dain, I have no idea about the point you are trying to make but…
Kern probably really does feel that the video was slanderous. However since
his scamming ass wants to be nowhere near a court room, he has to bend over, lube up, and take it. Squeal MF’er, squeal…
[Reply]
Peter Reply:
May 12th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
@Dain, quote Salty Droid as a “hate blog” again and our next conversation will be about libel.
[Reply]
Congrats Salty,
I got hosed by Eben Pagan and Frank Kern… and I bought their expensive (and useless) products.
Here’s how it worked:
They constantly nag and guilt trip you into believing that if you’re not making millions you must be lazy. That’s why they show you flashy cars and keep throwing insane numbers at you. Then, they offer useless products (magical pill) to save you. Because the product is useless — you don’t get the results they promised. Then, they guilt trip you into buying more . . . etc etc = scam.
Frustrated, you want to move to the next guru (thinking you must be doing something wrong)
I thought I should try Brendon Burchard’s expert academy instead (he looked so nice) . . . and?
Luckily I found the Salty Droid website and stopped buying this crap – I snapped out of the trance.
So thank you Droid!!!!
P.S.: I ended up watching Brendon Burchard’s expert academy (a friend bought it) and it was the worst piece of crap. For hours on the guy talks about his success; shows you his contracts; shows you stupid squeeze pages and keep screaming like a moron:
“are you creeeaaaatiiiiiive?”
until you want to puke.
Thank you Droid – thanks to you I saved my money and my sanity
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Congratulations on this piece! Both the Verge article and video are great summations of what you’ve been writing about for years now. The exposure that this is getting is wonderful and long overdue- New Yorker recommendation?
*sniff* Our little Droid’s all grown up now. It’s so great to see the traction digging in.
And I’m hoping it will get you your This American Life segment all the sooner. In show themed “The Enforcers, Part 2.”
[Reply]
@SD I think your tag line, “you can’t make money online” should now change to, “Thou shalt not get away with it”.
Keep on going teaching the scum the 11th Commandment
[Reply]
hey jason/joseph,
great research, i always wondered who actually falls for these scams / if they actually work? So how much $ are these “gurus” really making? In this one phonecall that panting perv scumbag says he thinks he can sell 2000
units of his product at 2000$… so let me get my calculator out facebook movie style..thats.. ermm.. wait for it..hmm.. ermm.. yes. THATS ALOT!!
like 4 mio$ … are you telling me these guys make this kind of money X the frequency they manage to pull this crap off in a year???
so these guys make like 20-30 mio $ a year and no one actually stops
them?? im from europe i dont get it..in the eu these guys would have been
to prison allready.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 9:08 am
@thorsten battmanscher,
Re: how much money:
It’s hard to say. At least AFAIK it is. Because: ok so Andy Jenkins charges a ridiculous sum of money and sure some people buy, but how many?
Scamming like this means you only get a big chunk of cash in the door when you fake-sell a new rehash of your old crap. {again} Even when you con people on continuities and the like, the gravy train does not keep running indefinitely if you don’t go priming that pump every so often.
So it’s definitely an irregular income type situation. There may be times when Andy has a lot of fraudulently gotten monies coming in and other times when there’s little or none.
Having an irregular, uncertain income day to day, month to month. Just another one of the not-perks of that whole be-your-own-boss mindset that they don’t tell you about while they’re trying to get you to give them all your money.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
I was a little surprised when he said that the Salty Droid was just a persona. This blog depresses me SO much. I just assumed that the author himself was a depressed guy. Turns out he’s living a relatively worry-free existence.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 8:58 am
@Upset Boy,
(@SD or Jason please correct me if I’m wrong, but) I think that, while @SD/Jason’s personal life might be, or at least appear to be, basically worry-free, the anger and vitriol espoused by the Droid is basically genuine. It’s the jokes that are added in/kinda fake. ‘Cause when you have to confront crap that’s so horrible as what J. A. Ray did, what can you do? And the sick machine rolls on and on and on.
{Hi, Oprah! Have you helped give false social proof to any more scammers this week?}
At a certain point, you’ve gotta make a bit of a joke out of it just so as not to get crushed by the weight of it all.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 10:20 am
@Upset Boy,
I think part of it too is that the only way to engage these guys is with vitriol. Putting it through a robot is a theatrical touch that makes it not so personal. It’s not so easy for normal healthy humans to to talk to psychopaths in a language they can understand.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Kevin Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
@Yakaru, Well stated, Y.
[Reply]
HammerDown Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 8:19 am
@Yakaru,
With ya, there.
More than vitriol is OK, too. A hammer on the right skull is best.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am
@Upset Boy ::
This blog depresses me too.
[Reply]
HammerDown Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 8:32 am
@SD,
Know it can be tough.
First time I put a scumbag down it didn’t feel that good.
Now its fun. Not good with words like you, he he.
[Reply]
[...] informatie bij de bron van dit artikel, Salty Droid, hier en een weerwoord van Frank Kern op Facebook, [...]
If what was said in the article was so slanderous and false why wouldn’t Frank Kern just sue? I would think that any legitimate business who had such an article written about them would sue immediately…….ooooohhhhh, right. Well, not that we’ve explained that one, could someone please tell Frank that just because you use all caps it doesn’t make your statements truthful=it won’t hold up in court.
[Reply]
Thom Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 1:29 am
@Amanda, Bingo. Frank Kern knows that not only would he lose, but even more of his laundry would become public record. From that, he might face an even worse court ordeal, defending himself against government charges.
[Reply]
I just found out about that Salty Droid & Joseph Flatley are racists!!!
From under his video:
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
@Jack, Does above comment need the “snark-alert” tag?
[Reply]
Oy Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
@Jack, I think since the comment box mostly just contains that idiot’s video and own stupid words, people can’t bring themselves to give it a “thumbs up” like that. Feels like giving a “thumbs up” to a spot of leprosy. Might be better to have a few lines at the end refuting it.
[Reply]
Fuck the Scammers Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
@Jack, Holy shit! He is Scammer Phillip Mansour´s little brother lol
[Reply]
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
@Jack :: Is he in an outhouse? In Costa Rica? True sign of a well-to-do expert-marketer scammer. He must be super-rich!
Racism?
Try these blanket statements on for size ::
I don’t like every child rapist out there.
I don’t like every serial killer out there.
I don’t like every unicorn-moneyz frauduct sellers out there.
And I definitely don’t like this douche-bag claiming he is rich living a third world-lifestyle in an outhouse.
If I was face-to-face, I won’t give him (or any of them) a chance to speak before I punch them in the face with my geeky interwebz wisdom.
Fuck.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 14th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
@Doctor Mario, Wait. I can’t tell now about if it’s the outhouse or a padded-cell.
[Reply]
SD, no Ed Dale folder?
The Verge, no room for Ed Dale in scamworld?
Strange, since he was Frank Kern’s partner in crime (literally) for a very long time and now continues to scam and con people out of money with his Immediate Edge frauduct that he manages with his new partner, the equally vile and duplicitous Dan Raine.
[Reply]
i totally support your research
[Reply]
Oh noes :: look who’s on the PZ Myers blog network …
http://freethoughtblogs.com/tokenskeptic/2012/05/14/little-kitten-scamworld/
I left a comment demanding a retraction of the Anthony Navarro story …
http://saltydroid.info/pz-myers-gasbag-bigotry/
That post is still up … and still pissing me off. If you remember that situation with frustration … go leave a comment.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 10:49 am
My comment didn’t print … natch.
I guess I’m blacklisted for having the audacity to point out that PZ Myers bigotry was based on the factual inaccuracies of a raving scammer freak job.
They’re skeptics don’t you know.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 12:36 am
@SD,
They are, as you said before, “t-shirt wearing skeptics”. And I’m sure they’re appropriately skeptical about some things. They probably don’t believe in UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster or the theory of Atlantis.
But all peoples have blind spots, and so far it seems the so-called freethoughtblogs.com folks have a great big one where P.Z. Myers is concerned.
——-
But I’m curious: in the incredibly unlikely event that P.Z. did a 180 and said “sorry” and issued a retraction, what would your response be over here?
Would you take down or alter the articles where you savaged P.Z.?
I realize it’s a very academic question. Still, I’m curious.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 12:45 am
@Wyrd ::
Had PZ heeded my warnings … those articles wouldn’t have happened. He didn’t … and now they are forever part of his life.
He takes down his defamatory post about a private citizen’s private life … and I’ll go back to not giving a shit about him until the end of time. He doesn’t take down that post … and I will never forget … and will always be looking for fun new ways to bring it up.
I have been emailing Christian lawyer groups about it … eventually one of them is going to listen to me.
[Reply]
Melkor Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 8:42 am
@SD, …see that line there? The one you just crossed? Yeah, that’s is a mistake akin to Frank Kern getting suicidal and suing you. As long as you’re dependent on a geeksphere free speech friendly server to keep this site on the net aligning yourself with the fundamentalist Christian Dominionist anti-free speech, anti-LGBT rights crowd who’re the only ones who’d get involved with harassing Myers in court,that’s a stumble you can come to regret. It’s one of those small wedge issues that the scammers you’re actually after can point to in order to claim that more people than them think that you are a hate blogger. Not that you are, but keeping this going in the way you’ve outlined would create the perception that you’re aligned with people antithetical to everything your web hosts stand for in the way of free speech.
Eh well, I don’t want to concern troll you – you pick the fights you want in the way you want them, and given your track record over the years I’ve read you, you’re good at picking the right targets at the right time. Just wondering if this *is* the right time for this particular fight…
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am
@Melkor,
Well…
Last I heard the EFF was defending not-blogger Crystal Cox’s free speech rights. And Crystal Cox is an “investigative journalist”/”reputation management specialist”/extornist. It’s so f*cked up it’s funny. Except not really because she’s so crazy that she really shouldn’t get to have her case heard at a higher court. But she might because the judge’s ruling could apparently set some sort of bad precedent relating to blogging and free speech. So there’s a liberal organization basically helping out a major nutjob freak show.
Anyway, about Myers: one thing that has become increasingly clear to me as this has gone on–one thing that I get to be (mostly) sure of because I’ve had time to look stuff up and think it over:
P.Z. Myers is a dick. It would be kind of fitting for him to get sued by Christian lawyers. And, in a sick sort of way, I think Myers would like that anyway. He could make lots of blog posts about it and play the martyr again. It’s funny how much likes to do that since he’s all anti-religion.
Btw, you shouldn’t paint all of religion with such a broad brush. There are liberal Christians out there. I say ‘hi’ to them on Sundays*. {for realz}
* I don’t want to mis-characterize my church: many of the folks that go there would not call themselves Christian. But a few do. Almost all of them would call themselves liberals. But maybe not all.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Melkor Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 9:50 am
@Wyrd One of my bestest friends is a Conservative Fundamentalist Christian, and we’re both close friends with a New Age/spiritualist because we’re human first and labels second. And because depression/anxiety/dieting support groups crosses party lines, I suppose.
As my fundamentalist friend (lovely lady that she is) would say – the Christian Dominionists from the mega-churches, the LaHaye/Left Behind crowd are a subset of Fundamentalists, they don’t speak for all of them. They’re just the most vocal about it and they’re being thoroughly unChristian in how they fail to live up to what’s actually in the Bible.
That Myers is a dick at times is undisputed. It’s just for a reason, and it’s not not all he is, just like Salty’s a Droid for a reason and isn’t one all of the time.
At this point, the Verge might pick up the Droid or at least Jason so he could keep on fighting the good fight with more visibility, which means my apprehension is misplaced. I trust Jason to be the best judge of what fights he wants and how to go about them, but I think I’d also be doing a disservice if I didn’t at least voice my misgivings.
Which could be entirely because I’m missing information the Droid has, I’m not the third-person omniscient narrator outside of the fiction I’m writing for my desk drawer ;)
Anonymous Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 7:41 am
@Wyrd,
“But I’m curious: in the incredibly unlikely event that P.Z. did a 180 and said “sorry” and issued a retraction, what would your response be over here?”
I ran across Myers in ’97 on Usenet. He places himself in a box like most everyone else. He took a post (with accusations about me), and placed it in another thread (to prove the guy who was writing the post was a kook). He did it to prove his point (about his box being better), in doing that, one individual post (with no contextual posts from the original thread), placed me in a negative light.
Don’t think for one moment he won’t fuck over anyone (incidentally or deliberately) to make a point, in an attempt to prove his box is better.
When you live in a box, you always have to defend your box (from other boxes). It always makes me laugh when people say they “think” outside the box. In most cases, they are defined and ruled by their boxes.
PS – I ignored him completely (then and now). I knew by reading a few of his posts, it wasn’t worth reasoning with him. Until he was brought up here (during the Dunford scandal), I haven’t even “crossed paths” with him since ’97, and I had to look up archived google groups to even realize he was the same ass.
[Reply]
Clark Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-4
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
@Clark ::
There aren’t two camps … there’s just him being wrong and defaming someone who was already a victim.
And my comments about it that morning were as vanilla as Brain Clark. And who said I don’t understand the reaction? I totally understand it :: and expect it … but that don’t mean it’s not fucked.
[Reply]
Clark Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-9
[Reply]
Doc Smartin Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 5:46 pm
@Clark, Predictable apologism from you. You are hardly neutral. You are very much driven by your none-concealed hatred of religion, and the reflexive condescension you are quick to hurl at those who practice it. It drips off many of your comments like unruly little strings of spittle.
To end on the proverbial positive note, I was somewhat surprised that you’ve taken most of your tongue out of Kern’s ear. When you finally get it all the way out, and are able to acknowledge his schenanigans without the use of qualifying asterisks, maybe then we’ll give you a cookie. Hope springs eternal!
[Reply]
Clark Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-6
Doc Smartin Reply:
May 15th, 2012 at 9:23 pm
@Clark, It’s not completely irrelevant if you’re under yout own form of extreme influence. It can certainly affect tolerance and veracity, and as was shown by PZ’s icey heart gang, impair one’s sense of common decency and humanity toward others.
Nobody is trying to convince the “nerds inside the ‘skeptic’ community;” they can stomp around and dress in black all they want in their own cave.
The problem is when they go out of their own cave in search of conquest, and attack others in their own domains because they don’t agree with their thinking.
SD really doesn’t need your lecturing; he makes deliberate, weighted choices, and has more than sufficient intellect. If you’re going to “defend” his purpose here by commenting elsewhere, he could do without your attaching qualifying remarks like, “Sure, he can be over the top,” which serves to build you up but does him a disservice.
I don’t think you’re all black and white. I think you have potential as a human being. But when it comes to respecting people’s religion out of basic courtesy and kindness, and taking a definitive stand against scammers without sharing a beer and group hug with them out back, you’re a fuckup.
Change your life, Clark. Go for that cookie.
Clark Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 6:59 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-4
Doctor Mario Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
@Clark :: {Even tho you should be starting your forever hiatus from this site by now} :: you say ::
Are you saying then that you are an agnostic rather than an atheist?
What proof will it require for you to believe in a Higher Power? How do you qualify this type of “proof”?
What even is “true”? (something philosophers WAY smarter than you have been debating for a thousand+ years)
Or, perhaps a better question …
How do you blindly justify the very type of anti-rational hypocrisy you condemn :: while simultaneously exhibiting it using the same type of off-topic emotionally driven “red herring” arguments?
… like the “ALL Religions hate on GLBTs” or “religion = bad cuz they publicly espouse their beliefs”?
You are doing all the things you condemn … so blatantly that it takes only reading a few sentences of your nonsense to see how ignorant you are to your own ignorance.
In fact, considering the type of circular logic & false-rationalism you subscribe to, I’d figure St. Anselm’s Ontological Argument would be enough to convince you of the “existence” of an all-powerful all-knowing “God”.
But probably you never even heard of it. Or Gödel’s.
Because you are a n00b.
Plz take a permanent hiatus from voicing your retardation on this site and go back to suck on papa PZ’s peeny.
WINNER!! ::
+7
Churchill's Pocket Watch Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 3:43 am
Clark said: “…they genereally rely on the same dangerous framework of demanding respect for views that can’t possibly be proven right or wrong.”
“Same dangerous framework?”
“Generally?”
“Demanding?”
You’re like a steamroller with one gear and no brakes.
HAVING a view isn’t the same as DEMANDING that YOU have the same view, Clark.
SHARING a view with those willing to hear it is not DEMANDING that they (and certainly, you) have that view, Clark.
Even if you can’t respect someone else’s view, you can and should respect their RIGHT to have that view. That means not attacking them or spitting in their face just for having it.
You could also try simply RESPECTING OTHERS as human beings!
But coexistence is such a bitch when those “other people” aren’t exactly like you or up to your “standards of thought.”
The reality is, you don’t want people having religion or talking to others about it. You reverse construct your flimsy rationalizations and non-arguments to support that objective.
It’s all about you controlling and dominating others because you feel you and your views are superior.
You’re such a hypocritical bigot, Clark: a deluded, pompous, self-appointed exterminator of differing worldviews.
Wyrd Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 9:09 am
@Clark
The atheist community wasn’t the topic. But in this reply it is.
When you read it stripped of its original context, and from your worldview as a militant atheist that openly shows an utter lack of respect for a person who’s beliefs differ from yours–yeah, in that light it could look a little crazy.
Myers is a dick. I wish he would just stick to talking about science, and leave out the rest. But I can’t force that on him.
Actually, @SD first emailed Myers regarding the article. As far as I can tell, the email(s) was/were ignored. Then @SD posted the articles.
There is evidence here. The alternate point of view on the events of those days is recorded here. But you seem so certain that you are right and that everyone else is wrong, I don’t think you’d find the evidence compelling. I think the only thing that might convince you is talking to Anthony in person, and that isn’t likely to happen. (And it shouldn’t be necessary.)
And regarding the bit on religion:
Or, for example, if X teaches you that it’s totally cool to defame someone and call a person a “fuckwit” and then never do any fact checking or retract that statement. I have a problem with that.
But you and Myers seem to have decided that it’s perfectly acceptable to call out and heckle individuals because they believe something that you don’t like, agree with, or understand.
Gee that’s good to know. But, are you sure about that? ’cause if Myers is going around driving nails through communion wafers
http://www.conservapedia.com/PZ_Myers#Communion_host_incident
and if he’s into calling someone a religious fuckwit based on one letter taken out of context and the rantings of a con artist Internet Marketing scammer, then maybe heckling a church isn’t too far off in the future.
When Myers does those things, he’s not `helping the atheist cause’ or whatever, he’s just being a dick. Everybody, no matter how rational they like to pretend that they are, has their own version of “evil”, their own version of, for lack of a non-religious term to describe it, “the devil”. For Myers (and I’m pretty sure for you) all of organized religon is your “the devil”. You write as though it is the sole cause of all the bad things that happen in the world, and that’s ridiculous.
Wow. You sound so sure. You sound so certain. You sound so righteous. What gives you the right to assert that sort of thing for all of the human beings living on planet Earth? Who died and made you god? Why should you have the power to pass judgement on the beliefs of everyone everywheres?
Gee. It’s so nice of you to give them that limited freedom. Thanks, @Clark!
Reciprocity is fun! I get to challenge you right back! :-P (Are you sure this is really the way you want to live? With everyone calling each other out and challenging each other all the time? It can be very exhausting.)
Except, in the case of Myers v. Anthony it isn’t exactly equal anyway. Myers has a whole blog to shout and yell from and Anthony doesn’t. Hmmm…
IMHO, I don’t think Anthony ever meant to imply that. Sure, I agree it totally looks like he was implying that from Myers’ article. But Myers’ article was just a re-hash of a section of Naomi’s fake death threats post. Naomi, much like a tabloid “journalist”, has great skill at taking bits of fact and spinning them together in a totally lying way so as to misrepresent things. Surely this concept is not new to you, so perhaps you shouldn’t dismiss without some consideration.
Yes, there are. Except mostly they’re atheist meetups and they just call themselves skeptics. It pains me the way “skeptic” has so quickly come to be just another clique and just a code word for “atheist-that-hates-religion”. I haven’t been to very many of those meetups because most of the time all they do is sit around and make fun of religion or talk about `how can we get people to not be religious?’. That kind of activity is largely divisive, un-productive, and un-helpful.
Yeah. The Unitarian Universalist church I go to does those things too. Except, since it isn’t anti-religion it has a lot more members.
I’m all for removing bad beliefs from society (e.g. the belief that people can easily make money online or the belief that alternative medicine is a valid substitute for a visit to an M.D.).
The trouble is: you and I, I think we disagree on what the worst sort of belief is. To my mind, the worst sort of thing you can be is certain. See, certainty leads to righteousness and zealtry. And zealtry acts as a justification for the committing of atrocities and `the ends justifies the means’ and all the rest of it. With the possible exception of psychopaths, every person that ever did something evil always believed that their actions were justified at the time that they did them. The moment you stop questioning your own motivations, you become at risk for the same folly.
Don’t be so quick to rush to judgement on a person you’ve never even met based on one thing that they wrote in a time of great personal, emotional stress.
You and Myers–you are so much like the very sort of religious kook you are trying to fight against. Yet you cannot see it.
That would be great. If you could start respecting people who happen to be religious, I think that would be a giant step forward. Let me know when you get started on that.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 12:26 am
@SD,
Ok, so I’m a couple days late (which, on the Internet, is like five lifetimes) but I have just posted on Token Skeptic’s blog. I’m going to post it here too in a blockquote in case it doesn’t survive the censorship, er I mean, moderation process:
I intentionally had the link back to the original offending post be broken. It’s a (probably pointless, naive) attempt to prevent some sort of automatic system from alerting P.Z. thereby giving him a chance to delete it before Token Skeptic even sees it.
I have all those stupid periods in there to force more whitespace. I wanted my many, meandering paragraphs to be spaced out better. That way, when someone’s eyes start to glaze over, I have a chance to re-hook them with a line that’s standing out by itself lower down in the text.
But now I think on it–directly linking here was probably the Bad Move. I seem to recall P.Z. saying something about automatically deleting links back to saltydroid.info.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 1:50 am
@Wyrd,
Now that’s skepticism I can believe in!
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 18th, 2012 at 8:47 am
@Lanna,
Thanks.
Alas, it appears my comment did not make it. Too long, I suppose. Too contentious. It would probably take Little Kitten a long time to read through and process what I wrote, and it’s a lot easier just to deny the comment.
It’s sad. I mean, I get that there might be times that random woo woos that might attempt to spam a blog… but it isn’t exactly as if there are a lot of replies there.
At least when I posted something negative on a skepchick’s blog a while back, the comment itself stayed up and the individual that wrote the blog post responded with a CYA-style thing that went like this: I haven’t had a chance to personally verify the claims from the ittybiz blog
So–definitely not what I would, definitely not a retraction, but at least the comment itself stayed up.
It is, of course, totally up to Token Skeptic and/or Myers and/or freethoughtsblog whether they want to allow a comment to be posted or not.
However, it is disingenuous, insular and (dare I say) even scammy to claim to be all about skepticism and critical thinking, but then simply not post things that might be contentious.
I am becoming upset with http://freethoughtsblog.com . It doesn’t seem very free.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Great stuff. Scam haters are my kind of people.
You are The Man.
[Reply]
@Clark, Salty droid already did that article putting forth all the reason PZ Meyers was wrong. He wrote before Meyers opened his giant gas bag and gifted us all with his nonsense. Perhaps you missed that one. The Dunford/Navarro story was well under way before Meyers put his foot into the shit pile. Go back and read before you argue. If you walk into the movie theater half way through the movie do you ask everyone to stop and explain to you, in detail, everything you missed before they can start the film up again.
And just because you did miss the first half of the story, it doesn’t make the rest of us wrong because you don’t have the context or all of the information. No one here is going to do your homework. Go back, read the Navarro/Dunford posts, then form an opinion.
[Reply]
Clark Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
@What the what,
So blaming women for getting murdered is okay as long as you’re writing to people who’re bottom feeding scammers?
[Reply]
what the what Reply:
May 19th, 2012 at 2:01 am
@Clark, yes. Clearly, when I stated (1) Droid already laid out all of the relevant information in a prior article(s) before Meyers wrote about it and (2) Do your own reading, don’t expect others to rehash what has already been said….I so obviously meant that we should blame women for being murdered because scammers are bad.
Your attempt to reframe my comment with such an extreme and absolutely absurd question is a very tired and very poor argument tactic. Although I do appreciate you taking zero number of minutes to think about what I said and actually respond to the content of my comment.
asshole.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
@What the what ::
Exactly.
And here’s the sequence in fact.
I had that freakish situation totally under control … having outed Dunford as a total fuckstar … and staying well away from all the personal personal stuff. I knew the personal stuff was a good story … but it was too much of a tinder box with vulnerable people and damaged emotions. Keeping the family and victims out of it is my normal approach :: and it was the right call on this one … as usual.
This is the response that PZ Myers forced …
http://saltydroid.info/alison-in-plunderland/
It turned out to be a hugely important story I know … and it was good for the cause … and good for the whole. But Dave disappeared afterward and hasn’t been seen since. Too high a price for Alison even though she would never say that.
And @Clark … you useless piece of shit … @Alison is a friend of mine … and I care very much about her family … like so many of the other families that I’m deeply involved with off site. So please … please … for the love of jesus … shut your mouth and fuck off.
[Reply]
Clark Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-5
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 16th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
@Clark ::
Make it a forever hiatus … and every time you look in the mirror over the next 20 years … think about how much I’ve always loathed your ignorance … and your equivocating uselessness.
Does that not sound like something a lawyer would say?
Gosh well then I guess I’m not a fucking lawyer … something else you must have missed while remaining “open to real arguments.”
And finally … bite me.
[Reply]
Great piece, Salty. I nearly got sucked into the Dunford Trap a couple of years ago, and I count myself lucky that she wasn’t able to extract any money from me.
As well as your site, I’ve been reading The Millenium Project, http://ratbags.com/rsoles, especially his series of articles on Amway, among other things…
Keep up the great work.
[Reply]
Nearing Maximum Geek-Altitude…
http://radar.oreilly.com/2012/05/four-short-links-17-may-2012.html
From Nat Torkington
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
@Jack ::
This is not how the Gnome remembers what happens on Internet 60 minutes!
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
@Jack,
Every time I see a link back to the scamworld article, it’s like a little ray of sunshine for me.
(Yeah, I know–it’s not about me. But it makes me happy anyway.)
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
@Jack,
That computer vision thing is trey awesome. It makes me wanna go build a robot. :-)
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Jack Reply:
May 17th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
@Wyrd, I think for sure it’s all related to the SD-mission somehow, so it’s made me feel needed to post this one:
Somehow it makes me want to have to believe that there is someway to use it to keep scammers away from the victims.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
May 18th, 2012 at 8:19 am
@Jack,
If nothing else, maybe the next time someone makes a CG movie with a flying robot they can get the physics right by using the bots in the video as a model. I see the robots doing all those little dips and side moves at the beginning and end of their main movement, and I realize that each time it’s doing that to either create or cancel it’s momentum in a given direction.
It’s just totally, geekily awesome. I want one.
For stopping scammers? I dunno. Maybe some could be unleashed at a big IM-MMO conference and the bots could drop {anti}-propaganda messages on the audience below. I don’t think it’d be very effective, but it’d be oh so cool.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
Here is what Marie Forleo, another scam artist, has just sent to her subscribers. Remember her from her slutty dances with Laura Roeder, wiggling her tush to sell her course? After Tony Robbins now she’s promoting Eben Pagan. Salty, it’s about time you start uncovering the Forleo gal who’s another shameless unicorn seller. And she charges 1999 bucks for her unicorns!
—
Hi …….. !
If you have a message, teaching or expertise that you want to offer to the world in the form of information products like audio training, DVDs, coaching programs, etc., then you’re gonna LOVE this.
If not, no worries. Delete this message as you probably won’t find this worth your time :)
Since you’re still reading . . .
Here’s the scoop:
You’re invited to a live teleclass I’m holding this Friday to interview my dear friend, and one of the brightest marketing teachers I’ve ever met, Eben Pagan.
Eben was one of the first people who believed in me when I was first starting my business as a life coach. He’s been a friend and mentor for over a decade plus he’s one of the BEST teachers I’ve ever met when it comes to marketing and packaging information.
I’m pumped to interview him this Friday at 2pm EST/ 11am PST if you want to listen in.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
How to create best-selling information products (he’s grown a $25M company!!)
How to organize your content and ideas so that they’re easily understood, and so they have high perceived value
Why some information products sell better than others, and the types of topics that work best when selling information (it’s important to get this right!)
If you want to join me on this live call and have access to the replay, click here.
As you know, I do NOT endorse many people or their programs. But when I’ve personally tested and used something and it’s that good, it’s my responsibility to let you know!
One last thing…
Whether you join me for the call or not, you have to go check out Eben’s free video training on creating info products while it’s still up.
Pay special attention in video #1 about “emotional needs” – this is really the thing that I see separates the people who make an impact from those who struggle with their teaching.
I’m a proud affiliate of Eben and his training. He gets my full endorsement as I know the deep level of care, training and attention he gives to his customers.
If you do nothing else but check out his free videos and listen to our free call, it will dramatically increase your ability to effectively communicate your message and make the impact in the world you are meant to make.
This is some of the most valuable training on this topic I’ve ever seen, but it won’t be around long so please scoop it up and use it to grow your business and get your message out to more people.
Hope to “see you” on Friday’s call!
Love,
Marie
—
[Reply]
What the what Reply:
July 16th, 2012 at 11:03 am
@Sick and Tired,
“Hi …….. !”
This is the best part of her entire email. As if she forgot she had to be excited about her email so threw the exclamation point t in at the end. I imagine if you did this in real life it would go something like this:
“Hi!” {long awkward pause} {JAZZ HANDS}
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
July 16th, 2012 at 11:51 am
@What the what,
Jazz hands are always funny.
[Reply]
Does anyone know if there is currently any investigations underway, to try and have these guys answer for their actions or will they just walk away scott free?
What can be done?
You see this sort of thing everyday on Facebook who incidentally are allowing all ads through at the moment even if they violate every single FTC legislation!
MA
[Reply]
You people are sad, hopeless, hate-mongering fools.
Apparently Salty Droid wants to save the world. But how does he go about it?
He bashes one internet marketers like a fucking 5 year old. Its pathetic.
A lot more people like Eben Pagan than those who like dipshit saltydroid.
You think all these people are idiots? Brainwashed “cultists”? You think they don’t own businesses that have benefited from the teachings of Eben Pagan? Or Joe Polish or Dean Jackson? I sure as hell know our business wouldn’t have half the success it does not w/out these guys.
They actually deliver value to the world.
The part that really pisses the droid off is the $. If they were charging $99 a course, droid wouldn’t have one rational arguement to make. What makes his hate “logical” to HIS cult, are the $1997 price tags some of these marketers charge.
Or some of the unethical shit they do they major corporations have been doing for decades.
This isn’t about internet marketing, its about our society. There are good and bad in every society.
The real problem with internet marketing is simply the fact that people are stupid. Stupid people will always get taken advantage of. They exist on this site, on Frank Kerns list, in every segment of society that you can imagine.
But you also find many, smart, successful people as well.
What pisses me off about the droid are his overidealistic views of the world. People get ripped off my internet marketers the same exact fucking way they get ripped off by small businesses every day the world turns.
Corruption is prevalent ANYWHERE YOU GO IN THIS WORLD.
So who the fuck is the droid to be the judge? I know scammers who work completely offline, scamming people in the home remodeling industry. These people do NOT EVEN DELIVER VALUE.
At least Kern delivers value.
At least Eben Pagan delivers value.
I’ve seen their material, and I’ve seen droids, and what droid delivers is not value.
He’s trying to change stupid people. But he doesn’t seem to understand stupid people have existed since the days of Adam & Eve.
A blog is sure as fuck not changing a thing.
What droid really seems to be doing is leaching off the fame of these scammers, by basing his entire blog off these types.
Problem is, he ignores all the people who have been helped by these “scammers”. He intentionally chooses to focus just on the negative aspects.
People are greedy, its their nature. Droid is greedy for recognition but he misses the fact that people are stupid. Stupid people will continue to make stupid decisions, and businesses all around the world will continue to take their money.
NOT JUST INTERNET MARKETERS. This shit happens EVERYWHERE.
Open your eyes people.
If you want to talk about something important, that is fucking up the world more than these tiny internet marketers ever could… talk about fucking wallstreet.
Talk about algotrading.
Talk about the millions of real world scams that don’t even involve the internet.
The sad reality of our existence is people have always been taken advantage of, always will, and spreading hate isn’t going to solve a thing.
Thats why one must question droids intentions AS MUCH as he wants you to question these so called “scammers”. Who I just call smart opportunists. Are any of them in jail?
No.
Are any of them hate mongering douchebags to the extent that droid is?
No.
So in my books at least they’re trying to add value to the world.
So what if they charge a lot?
So what if they take advantage of stupid people?
DO YOU REALLY THINK STUPID PEOPLE WILL EVER LEARN?
My own brother has been like that his whole life.
Even when he tries to make good decisions, with good businesses, they ALWAYS take advantage of him. Because he’s too stupid to think more than 5 minutes into the future.
The one time he got scammed for a lot of money, guess what? He smartened up for a little bit.
But my preaching to him never changed a fucking thing. The same way droids useless blog is NOT changing stupid people.
In fact, if you want a real honest perspective of life.
The best way droid could teach these people, is to scam them. They’re too stupid to learn otherwise.
Thats the point he misses. So imo, scammers serve this world a purpose no other legitimate folks ever could. Stupid people always have to learn from their own mistakes. Most of the time they don’t. But if they are scammed on a large enough scale… a lot of them DO wind up learning something.
Something droid could never teach people about life.
Getting scammed evolves peoples minds.
Yes I said it.
Scamming is good.
There is no better lesson you can teach these types by taking all thier money.
The real problem with droid, is he fails to explain all the good that is created through evil. He will never talk about that shit. But guess what? It happens all the time.
These people NEED to get scammed. Otherwise they will never learn.
His mind can’t work in a truely objective sense.
[Reply]
Dr Geek Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
@DOG,
…and yet you feel compelled to write a huge response. On a blog which “is as sure as fuck not changing a thing”.
Funny that.
Don’t let the door hit you on the posterior on the way out…it’d damage your vocal cords, for one thing.
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
@GOD,
WOW! GOD took some time out of It/Her/His busy schedule to comment on Salty’s blog. I guess Salty really is important after all!
THANKS, God!
I’m sorry I don’t have time to leave you the detailed point-by-point response your very long rant so clearly demands. {/not really sorry}
Quick question: shouldn’t you be busy defending against the philosophical problem of Evil [wikipedia.org] or something?
Oh wait–defending Frank, Eben, et. al. I get it! You were defending evil! Good job, God! You got me on that one!
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
[Reply]
What the what Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
@Wyrd,
Holy Crap! GOD callled…he wants us to stop focusing on a tightly defined problem that has real and measurable negative effects on people…he would prefer we eradicate all evil from the world before we focus on this one…..
Ummmm, GOD….can’t you just fix all that with one big *woooosh*?
[Reply]
SD Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
@GOD ::
I’m glad to hear the scammers have helped you so much. You certainly sound like a well adjusted and successful adult.
One tiny point though :: in a previous comment here you mentioned this regards how Eban has helped you …
So that’s confusing because then today you said …
But you’re right about how I rarely/never show the positive side of people getting scammed :: and I want to win at least 7 Pulitzers and 5 Grammys … so I spent five minutes finding your super successful webz business so I could check myself before I wrecked myself. And here we go …
http://www.warriorforum.com/members/redshifted.html
Anything else I can help you with today … or should I go back to saving stupid people from themselves now?
[Reply]
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
LOSER!! ::
-4
[Reply]
Lanna Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 6:42 pm
@Rob,
Do you “have no qualms taking advantage of folks” in your waterproofing business or another line of work?
[Reply]
What the what Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
@Rob,
Nothing can be done.
You can’t change social activists & I don’t know why you even try.
There are scammers in every segment of society, and the only way most these idiots learn is by being hit in the pocket book and not being able to make money scamming.
So social activists serve a more important purpose than you do.
At least they’re teaching scammers in the only way scammers can be taught.
Just another reason I have no qualms helping to make it hard for scammers to make money. I’ve warned scammers many times about jail terms that are imposed in the real world everyday for crimes committed OFF the internet. But they don’t listen. Not untill they go to jail or have their money taken away at least.
Thats why I say just shut the whole fucking Scamworld down.
Its really just to bitch and complain about the fact that droid can’t change stupid people.
[Reply]
What the what Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
@What the what,
whoops!!! missed a line!. Last line should read: It’s really just to bitch and complain about the fact that scamworld denizens can’t make money in real businesses.
P.S. I wish I had an edit button
[Reply]
Wyrd Reply:
September 7th, 2012 at 11:54 pm
@Rob,
Yeah, you know, it’s a bitch. After a bus or train crash or some other mass casualty event, you go into that ER and there’s all those people there. No matter how hard you try some die.
Well, just throw up your hands and give up! Nothing can be done! Let’s just give up on all of emergency and urgent care! It’s a waste!
Oh wait. False dichotomy [wikipedia.org] much?
Just because you can’t save everyone, it doesn’t necessarily follow that you can’t save anyone.
True, you will never save every person/starfish/critically injured person. But that’s no reason not to try.
[Reply]
Dr Geek Reply:
September 8th, 2012 at 6:13 am
@Wyrd,
To be honest, the whole of medicine appears to be a waste – we all die in the end, so perhaps I should just disappear off to the golf course instead of going into work?
@Rob
how would you feel if it was your loved one who was taken advantage of?
[Reply]
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