Home » Andy Jenkins, Eben Pagan, Frank Kern, Jeff Johnson, Jeff Walker, John Reese, Mike Filsaime, Ryan Deiss, Scams, The Syndicate, Video

The Internet Marketing Syndicate

Author == 12 August 2010 671 Comments

The Syndicate.

That’s what they call themselves.  The Syndicate.  Like if they built a fucking tree house {which they probably did} :: then they used a wood burner to carve that name over the extra wide door. The Syndicate. “Look Mom we named our club! It’s a name and a description … we’re super smart like that.”

The Syndicate is a cartel at the center of the get rich quick world of Internet Marketing. Each of the members tries to pass himself off as a freewheeling entrepreneur. An individual rising above :: a rogue :: fighting back against the workaday ways of our corpo-centric suburbanized society. Each sells a version of this easy freedom in a bottle to seekers … the sadder the seeker … the better. But the dream :: like the cake :: is a lie. Success in “the industry” correlates not with value :: individuality :: or effort … but with proximity to a toxic core whose basic operations constitute a serious felony and moral failing.

The Syndicate keeps prices high :: and dissent low. The Syndicate all but eliminates marketplace competition. Individuals or businesses inside of Internet Marketing who act against the interests of The Syndicate risk their financial futures. The Syndicate uses tough :: tasteless :: and intimidating tactics to defend against what it sees as threats to its unrightful domain. Many know about The Syndicate but are afraid to speak for fear of reprisals. Most do not know … but are never the less deeply affected by the cultural tone set by the group.

The Droid has known about The Syndicate for more than a year. Readers who have found my targeting system perplexing can now bask in the sweet light of understanding.  Most of my actions have been in some way calculated to damage and/or undermine the cohesion and effectiveness of this nasty little club of cheater cheater pumpkin eaters. And while publicly exposing :: and naming the names :: of individuals involved in a secret crime is a tricky and risky business {even for a badass robot} … I have long been sowing the seeds of social disturbance in private.

The delay in printing the story was about caution :: detail accumulation and verification :: and various still secret strategies. But mostly it was about me knowing that you wouldn’t believe me. I’m just a success hater on a witch hunt … blah blah blah. I needed someone reputable who had first hand knowledge to go on the record :: rather than my normal accumulation of publicly available evidence. There haven’t been any takers for my “Hey :: why not shoot yourself in the face?” offer.

Meanwhile :: The Syndicate knows I know … because I told them. Lots of times :: and in lots of fun {for me!} and spunky ways. They likely don’t understand the full gravity of the situation … but sleep has been lost … and many a plan has been changed. Perhaps it was this unsettling fear of my knowledge … and the growing sense of mutiny {which I have been seeding!} … that led Frank Kern to make a horrible mistake … or maybe his narcissism has fully consumed his intelligence. I don’t know :: but whatever the cause :: Frank Kern and The Syndicate fucked up massively.

Here :: from the last “module” of List Control :: is Frank Kern’s own description of The Syndicate.  It’s inexplicably packaged as advice you should apply to your own business! If you know anything about antitrust law … your jaw is about to hit the fucking floor.  And if you don’t know anything about antitrust law … don’t worry … cause after the video I’m gonna splain it to ya.

Thanks Irwin Frank Kern :: that really made my job a hell of a lot easier.

America’s antitrust laws :: aka “competition laws” :: are old :: broad :: and vicious. The Sherman Antitrust Act :: still the governing statute :: was passed in 1890. Here is the language of its main provision :: 15 U.S.C. § 1

“Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal. Every person who shall make any contract or engage in any combination or conspiracy hereby declared to be illegal shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine not exceeding $100,000,000 if a corporation, or, if any other person, $1,000,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding 10 years, or by both said punishments, in the discretion of the court.”

Many cool kids think this statute is shit because it could be read to include almost anything. But for more than a hundred years these cool kids have been ignored … as amendments to The Act tended to make it even more powerful. The statute has civil provisions which enables individuals {like harmed consumers} to sue with the possibility of triple damages and attorney’s fees.  Additionally :: each State has its own laws broadly prohibiting anti-competitive behavior … and the FTC has special enforcement and rule making powers.

Capitalism CANNOT tolerate non-competition :: and the consequences are correspondingly severe.

Frank’s explanation of The Syndicate is a textbook description of anti-competitive behavior! Set up a meeting in a hotel room with your main competitors and think of ways you can help each other make more money? Why in fucks name would you say that into a camera?

At one point in his confession Frank says you shouldn’t use your little anti-competitive club for things like price fixing or market division. Cause that would be wrong. And he’s right about that … you shouldn’t do those things.  Those are considered “per se” violations of the law … and it makes the plaintiff or government’s case a breeze.

Market division usually refers to dividing customers by geography. I’ll take Brazil … you take Rwanda. Such arrangements keep supply low :: competition low :: and prices high.

Another way to divide a market is over time … like making sure your product launches and advertising messages don’t overlap … something Frank says you should be doing. The Syndicate keeps a “launch calendar” :: it’s made out well in advance at one of their many meetings. Each member launches a product over an unnaturally short period … keeping supply artificially low. Other members agree not to compete during that time … and to heavily cross promote regardless of the quality of the product.

It looks like this on an Alexa graph …

These are the traffic spikes from the launches of five recent Syndicate frauducts. Andy Jenkins :: Frank Kern :: John Reese :: Jeff Walker :: and Ryan Deiss.  This same precise pattern can be traced back to 2005{ish} … no competition allowed!

But what about price fixing? She’s the mother of all bad things. If you’re price fixing … you’re fucked! Period. Even if you only control a small part of a small market … if you get caught agreeing with your competitors to keep prices high … you’re fucked. Out one side of his stupid mouth Frank says “don’t do anything crazy like fix prices” … out the other stupid side he says the whole point of The Syndicate is making lots of money over a short period … and being able to charge “premium” prices.

Unfortunately for Frank and the rest of The Syndicate d-bags … no matter what they may say … the price fixing is so blatantly obvious as to be laughable. If you’ve been around this blog for more than a couple of weeks you already know the current price point … $2000.

Mike Filsaime is next up on The Syndicate launch calendar.  Here’s a bit from a recent email he sent out promoting his launch to potential JV’s …

“It will follow the launch style, price point, and course delivery of:

- List Control
- Video Boss
- PLF 2.0
- Outsource Force
- Mike Koenigs last crushing launch.

All of the launches had the same thing in commons.

TOP LEVEL need. Easy message. Similar price Point,
and a need for the marketer to know the information etc.”

First :: that’s not English … it must be a rough translation from garbled Gnome.

Second :: sounds like price fixing to me!

But this situation isn’t just about violations of law. It’s a moral and ethical betrayal of the highest order. The Syndicate :: the “A-Team” :: makes ALL the money. The affiliates :: the “B-Team” {also the primary customers} are led to believe that they too can walk a path to easy riches … but the members of the A-Team know that members of the B-Team only exist to amplify the hype … and to open up their wallets to pay extremely high prices for goods of little to no value.

{word limit exceeded}

… much more to follow.

It’s time for a change.

>> bleep bloop

PS – There are no ladies in The Syndicate.

671 Comments »

  • What's Missing said:

    Nice start.
    Two things come to mind when reading this and Frank’s white board.
    1. Where’s Eben Pagan?
    2. RICO

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @What’s Missing ::

    1. Eben’s in The Syndicate.

    2. I agree about RICO.

    [Reply]

    Cromulent Reply:

    @SD,

    I know RICO has been stretched awfully far over the years, but can it really be fit onto this? It would be cool if it could of course.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Cromulent ::

    IMO … it’s not even a mild stretch. A conspiracy to commit a long term pattern of interstate fraud … it’s directly contemplated by the act.

    … and if you look close enough at the very edges of this thing … you will see the cigar smoke of that old-school RICO orignal sin.

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

    [Reply]

    2+2 (x^2)-y=CO3 Reply:

    Holy cow. So do I have this correct, if Kern, Filsaime, Bacak, Brunson, et al. are found to be a true syndicate, then each person of that syndicate can be charged with racketeering? Yikes!

    “Under RICO, a person who is a member of an enterprise that has committed any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of “racketeering activity.” RICO also permits a private individual harmed by the actions of such an enterprise to file a civil suit; if successful, the individual can collect treble damages.”

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    Ebuka Reply:

    @Duff,
    Do people still buy products from these guys? Personally, I skip any products that Kern, Filsaime, Bacak, Brunson, Pagan, Walker, Knudson and their cheerleaders promote.

    I don’t promote their business.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    Angel Yisrael Reply:

    @What’s Missing,

    When the real “Mafia” show up all of these guys won’t be smiling any more!

    I promise you, this is only a temporary advantage.

    Go ahead and make Millions, the more the better, so when the Real Mafia shows up they will have an easy time finding the money!

    Now is the Time, for the offline real-world to set the record straight for the online Fakes.

    I say to the Fake Mafia, “Life is short, enjoy it while you can!”

    Angel

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Thanks Reply:

    @What’s Missing, This stuff is cool. I just found this site. I see that it’s all anti Internet marketing but I want in.

    Ha ha glad I found this site. I went and joined a lot of there news letters. Thanks.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • Poop Chute said:

    @Salty –

    I know you would rather I leave and dammit I wasn’t gonna comment again but — I just HAD to comment on this piece.

    Please hear me out. I think you’ll be surprised, coming from me –

    Way to go, Salty!

    THIS is what I was hoping for from this blog. THIS is the problem in a nutshell, proven, wrapped up tight and clean.

    And this was some of the best writing I’ve seen you do yet. More like the bad-ass attorney robot you say you are.

    I wanted to get this to you so you know, though we obviously disagree on a LOT of points…you’re heading DEAD-ON where I wanted to see you go now.

    Nice job.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    _cartman_ Reply:

    @Poop Chute,

    “I wanted to get this to you so you know, though we obviously disagree on a LOT of points…you’re heading DEAD-ON where I wanted to see you go now.”

    ummm…right…besides constant bitching (and complaining), what the fuck did you do? Oh wait…you did do something…you got pissed off when Salty posted about Dan Kennedy, because you disagree with what suits you (btw…didn’t you state you were leaving…you even have a piss fucking poor record to keep your own word)…if you can’t keep your own word to yourself…you can’t obviously do much of anything.

    If you wanted Salty to know anything, you would have emailed him. You wanted everyone else to know that you are something (that you aren’t), and you choose targets and causes that “suit” you…give me a fucking break…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +19

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -18

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -10

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -16

    [Reply]

    _cartman_ Reply:

    @Poop Chute,

    “Was it you who called me juvenile a while back, @cartman? That was a particularly funny parting shot…not sure if it was you or not…I can go check but…really don’t give a fuck.”

    What the fuck are you smoking?

    I responded twice to you (a couple of days ago regarding your plastic FBI profiler, and today) you half wit r-tard. Apparently you can’t keep all the people who think you’re a total (or partial) fuckwit straight.

    As to your previous post, I have to go out, but I will respond when I get back.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -15

    disappointed Reply:

    @Marc, Colleen Conaway picked your oh so “positive” side and look where it lead to. Reality check.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    _cartman_ Reply:

    @Poop Chute,

    “That being said — I left for weeks because……..
    …..And because Salty stated more than once why don’t I leave (I do notice a tendency in Salty to suggest leaving to anyone really posting some solid arguments).” – poop

    “Last time I said I was leaving was again at the request of Salty.” -poop

    you stated

    ———-
    February 27th, 2010 at 8:39 am – Poop
    Come on. Sanity just left this board and so has Poop Chute.
    ———-

    Salty responded

    ———-
    February 27th, 2010 at 1:10 pm – SD
    Okay drama queen :: enjoy your dramatic exit :: don’t trip on your prom dress while your storming up the stairs.
    ———-

    then you said

    ———–
    March 1st, 2010 at 11:08 am – poop
    [some long winded shit]…[removed]….
    ———–

    Salty responded

    ———–
    March 1st, 2010 at 3:07 pm -SD
    Go where you want :: do what you want :: say what you want. I don’t care…….
    ———–

    Salty told you to enjoy your dramatic exit (an EXIT you mentioned)….Salty did not tell you to leave…you stated you were leaving, in a rather dramatic fashion…

    Only in your demented mind, do you not maintain any temporal clarity….you twisted “facts” (true to troll form) to make your point….

    Did you want me to clarify anything else for you…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -18

    [Reply]

    not_cartman_ Reply:

    @Poop Chute,

    “Is this another @cartman rule? “Anyone who disagrees must always be considered ‘the one who disagreed’ and all further comment ceased forever?”

    _cartman_ made it perfectly clear that trolls are not tolerated well….the more you continue to twist what was written, the less people will respect (or believe) anything you have to say (even if you “agree” with their POV)… while _cartman_ would love to take all the credit for how people choose to see your lunacy….the reality….people made their own decision (both today and in past threads you participated in)….

    You went on a downward spiral, when you brought up your FBI profiler (FBI profiler…are you kidding..now…what was that you were saying about kids stamping their feet) when those commenting disagreed with you (excuse me….when they saw the lunacy of your comments)….that idiotic profiler comment just added further insult to insult…

    again troll…._cartman_ neither agreed (nor disagreed) with ewe…and _cartman_ doesn’t care how anyone reacts to your comments…..he didn’t even acknowledge your existence, until you brought in your “FBI profiler”…. you made your bed, now sleep in it…

    _cartman_ further doubts your sincerity based on the sheer lunacy of comments (made days not months ago)….and the way you chose to be deliberately deceitful in your “re-creation” of past events…..apparently that sentiment is shared by most reading this blog….

    _cartman_ is not a psychologist….he suggests you take your emotional issues up with a licensed psychotherapist….he really doesn’t care about your feelings (sad, but true)….that said, _cartman_ suggests you go and cry on someone else’s shoulder…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    SD Reply:

    @_cartman_ ::

    Just for that … he’s gonna have you FBI profiled TWICE. Suck on it “_cartman_” … if that is your real name … which me and my profiler fucking doubt.

    [Reply]

    _cartman_ Reply:

    @SD,

    awww nutz….I might have to disguise my handle to something else so nobody recognizes me….

    No no, really, my name is _cartman_ (have your profiler speak to my plastic PR personnel…she’ll vouch for my character…

    what’s that old saying….

    profile me once…shame on “him”…profile me twice..shame on “his” profiler….

    I hope I get my profile soon….I want to display it on my website…I want to rank for the term FBI Profiler…when it comes to SEO…everyone knows I totally rank (hmmm…that just sounds wrong)…..

    [thinking:maybe I need to redo the hooked on monkey phonics coarse]

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    SD Reply:

    @PoopChute

    1. You contribute nothing. You talk exclusively about you … and your “feelings” about this or that. But no one gives a shit about you … so it’s just noise … like commercials on the radio for LASIK when your eyes are fine … or people speaking loud Japanese on the subway.

    2. I hope we don’t make an enemy of you and all the powerful friends that exist in your fragile little mind.

    PS Your fake FBI Profiler girlfriend can just put my name into her database. I’m in there … real name … real number … along with this little story right here … which I told to them … succinctly and without humor … 11 months ago. Sleep on that badguys.

    Poop Chute Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

  • Marc said:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -10

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Marc, Funny you should mention Glenn Turner. I have a more-than-half-finished blog post about him, inspired by thumbing through some early-1970s issues of Time magazine that I found at my mom’s house. Turner was quite the scheming and flamboyant hustledork, ’70s style, who later made a second career as a martyr/hero because of his claim that he was unjustly “put away,” as you expressed it. In a sense he was the Kevin Trudeau of yesteryear (though Kevin doesn’t claim that he was unjustly imprisoned back in the 1990s, he does now claim that the government is unjustly still on his ass).

    Ah, the 1970s and the pyramid scheme scandals: Those were the bad old days. It seems, though, that these are the bad old days too, because when you read those articles from nearly forty years ago and then look at what’s going on today, you realize that nothing much has changed.

    But perhaps it is, as Salty put it, “time for a change.”

    BTW: Good work, SD. You have illuminated the apparent business model not only for some of the top players in IM but also for the related and oft-overlapping New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality industries. There are “cartels” everywhere, it seems. Which, it seems, is precisely your point.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -13

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -13

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    The Transformational Leadership Council is another of these cartels, an invite-only club for Self Help Gurus to discuss co-marketing (including James Ray, who was removed from the website post Sweatgate):
    http://www.transformationalleadershipcouncil.com/

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Duff, @SD Good point. And I’m just now completing a blog post on TLC, which I’ve been trying to get a chance to finish for more than a week now. I’m just about “there.” :-)

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Deiss Affiliate Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, Finish it please… these are the absolute worst people in the universe.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    SD Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie

    … cartels everywhere! Exactly. And they cross over and interact like incestuous royals.

    Customers shouldn’t be subjected to cult-style manipulation tactics.

    Customers shouldn’t be subjected to antitrust tactics.

    But to allow them to be used in combination … to the tune of BILLIONS … is just crazy sad. These are not victimless crimes … and something big needs to change.

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    @Marc, I don’t think you’re looking at the entire picture. Frank’s pretty clearly describing anti-competitive behavior and stating on video that this can all take place easily when competition is no longer a concern…and refers to you as “sort of the Godfather” of your “syndicate” … er — better make that “trade union” (the purist bullshit word-switch I’ve ever seen).

    Let’s peer into a wild-ass comparison:

    What if a hit-man refers to his work as “humanity clean-up.” Does that make it not murder and now legal? No.

    And the effect on the IM market has been devastating. To gather together in rooms, build a private calendar among competitors, then launch ONLY when another one isn’t so the coast it clear and the market’s ready, having all the OTHER guys waiting with their own slots for their launches promoting your launch, usually sight-unseen…is anti-competitive behavior.

    Especially when you start milking that syndicate — er — trade union in such a way that the calendar’s full-up when you AREN’T in the syndicate.

    I’ve NEVER liked the “big launch” model. Before that we had the “new” Internet marketing model but, at least with seminars, there really WAS scarcity — the natural scarcity of room size and accommodations and time — there is a day when the seminar takes place and — indeed, if for no other reason — sales must come to an end. Or when the room fills, if it can’t be expanded.

    But here’s the effect — if you want to make a splash with your new product online, a launch for you is pretty much out of the question unless you are now a part of this cabal and following their “guidance.” Price your product too low without a monster back-end and you won’t get in. Not enough up-front fast money. There is a price-fixing angle there. Why would the syndicate…er…fuck it…syndicate ever sell stuff below the price they’d like to be getting for ALL their stuff? People might wait for lower-priced stuff!!!!

    Gasp!!!

    Anyway — the “B” players could build a big business for you online as well — if they weren’t ALSO tied up promoting for the syndicate promotions that are filling the calendar.

    Remember — these launches usually involve a week or two and sometimes three weeks of build-up promotion and freebies etc. During all that calendar time you will, I guarantee, have a hard time getting any affiliates you have to promote your products because they’re all focused on those and already innundating their lists with syndicate “offers.”

    It is extremely anti-competitive and — no — going to a conference or seminar where competitors might be there is different than planning a meeting to set yourself up as the “godfather” of a “syndicate” made up of your leading competitors to cross-promote and dominate a market.

    When ONE business sets out to dominate their market against their competitors — capitalism is at work. When you combine forces with your competitors to ELIMINATE competition — you’re screwing capitalism from behind like a cheap male hooker.

    I still think Salty’s dead-on target and I’m saying that coming from a LOT of years of crossing these guys’ paths and working with them from time to time behind the scenes.

    Hell — Kern probably violated the law just by SUGGESTING to others that it’s in their best interests to violate the law, too.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -11

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    Marc Reply:

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  • Cisco said:

    A friend of mine is doing similar research on another IM “guru” and has dug up a shitload of evidence to bury this douche bag. You are going to be shocked when you find out who it is because he has a really good reputation online.

    As soon as I get the o.k. I will release all the evidence for you to publish on your site…

    Cisco

    P.S. You should download that video before the syndicate take it down

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

    disappointed Reply:

    @Cisco, Gary Bencivenga?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Or maybe Reply:

    @Cisco,

    Ken McCarthy?

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Probably Reply:

    @Cisco, Ed Dale?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Pat's Fat Reply:

    @Probably,

    I want it to be Ed Dale to http://www.30dcinc.com/downloads/30DCIncIM.pdf

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    GIVE IT TO ME STRAIGHT Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @GIVE IT TO ME STRAIGHT,

    THIS POST ISN’T ABOUT FRANK KERN :: IT’S ABOUT AN INTERNET MARKETING SYNDICATE THAT ED DALE IS A PART OF SO QUIT SCREAMING LIKE CHILD AND START THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO WITH YOUR FUTURE NOW THAT UNICORNS ARE DEAD.

    [Reply]

    rob sellen Reply:

    @SD,

    The Unicorns died??

    Damn… I wanted one, to go with my magic bullet… :) Oh well, I am off to get me a rainbow…

    Having been around long enough to know much of what this blog is about, what it is exposing, good on ya salty, about time they were shown for what they are, rip off merchants.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    ballsack Reply:

    @GIVE IT TO ME STRAIGHT,

    Good bloke, you say? Ed Dale and Frank Kern developed the underachiever method together, sold it for a lot of money to a lot of people and made a tidy profit. Then, within weeks of banking their profits they give the whole lot away for free, and refuse refunds to the disgusted owners who paid for the original method.

    At first the free 30 day challenge was a bit costly to produce, and wasn’t so affiliate sales driven, so Frank Kern wasn’t that interested in participating, as he was hurting financially from his encounter with the FTC, while Ed Dale had sold his sites for $5m and could afford to work for free. Ed Dale somehow found a way to push Kern out, monetize the challenge, replace Kern with unpaid sheeple to produce content, moderate his forum and provide help and support to participants.

    About these sheeple. They work tirelessly on his challenge, for no money or reward, as they want to be “part of something bigger than themselves”. Some of them are really struggling to build a business for themselves, and think that by helping Ed Dale, he might help them in return. He never does. But they do get to go to his events for free… as long as they are willing to become unpaid labor.

    Let’s stop for a minute. Ed Dale promotes all the syndicate offers, yet when his loyal followers produce a business that can genuinely help people, he DOESN’T promote them, but strings them along and suggests that if they scratch his back (by working on the challenge for free), maybe he’ll scratch theirs. WTF?!?

    At the same time, Ed Dale is building a database of maybe 100,000 people to push affiliate offers on from the syndicate. AND Ed Dale’s so-called “free” challenge has made Market Samurai, WordPress Direct, Hostgator, and himself a lot of money through all the affiliate links he’s hidden in the training. After the challenge he sells the challengers 30 day challenge plus, then immediate edge.

    Immediate edge was started by Dan Raine, and Ed Dale was a member like everyone else. He somehow found a way to become “partners” with the grateful, gullible Dan Raine, and is now working on a way to push him out and take the Immediate Edge for himself. Possibly through 30 DC Inc, as Dan Raine will become part of the management team (easy to fire him) yet Ed Dale and his boyfriend Clinton Carey are on the Board of Directors.

    30 day challenge plus contains information rehashed from Ed Dale’s over priced conferences, or his overpriced coaching programs where he stutters, stumbles and bullshits on you over the phone (while gathering information on YOUR PROFITABLE BUSINESS), and information taken on OTHER PEOPLE’S profitable businesses. Don’t tell him your niche because he will tell everyone else, but if its a really good one, he will steal it from you.

    His two membership sites are promoted by an army of affiliates, who write very nice things about Ed Dale – because they want surfers to buy into the membership sites – yet the affiliate cookies mysteriously do not register all the sales! The affiliates that complain are dismissed, blamed for their incompetence, then given the cold shoulder, and no longer get Ed’s attention.

    Ed Dale routinely lets down his paying subscribers by promising the “next big thing” which is going to be a “game changer” and “everyone is going to be teaching this next year” but d-r-a-g-s out presenting this information over MONTHS. Any paying subscriber who dares to complain is told to get out if they don’t like it. What??

    Similarly if you pay thousands of dollars in entrance fees, airline tickets and hotels to attend one of his events, don’t be too surprised to see that same information given away for free in his membership site by the time you get home. I know people who have saved thousands by waiting at their computer for Ed to run out of material to teach, and start handing out slides and recordings of these conferences.

    His grateful students share their information on their profitable niches and methods with him, and he somehow finds a way to “work” with them, pushes them out, and keep the niche for himself. For example, he is now behind a recruitment drive to get a large number of interns to identify and develop niches for him. Interns, don’t be surprised when you are pushed out.

    Recent activities include fundraising for an ipo. At first, he only wanted investors with $10,000 or more to invest. When he realised that he actually hasn’t helped anyone make more than $10000 (he’s helped a handful make a dollar) then started asking for any amount. Even stooping low as to ask for money after the supposed closing date.

    He is going public with a company based on stabbing people in the back, and he is planning on using his stock to “buy” people’s businesses for peanuts. He even admits that he will grow their businesses, and if they don’t perform, the owners get less money for their business.

    Its a recession right now, so it will be easy to buy these businesses for a price based on future performance, let them underperform and pay the owner less than agreed. Then, once the owner is ejected he can improve the businesses using methods and niches stolen from his students and sit on a fat pile of profits.

    Ed Dale used to boast that sold his ebook business that was making about $600k profits for $5m. That is over 8 times earnings. Yet he is prepared to pay others 2-3 times earnings for their businesses… if these businesses “perform”. Oh yes, and once these businesses have grown to a certain point, using free labor from the interns, he will then sell them for 8 times earnings. Yowsah!

    And lets not forget the way he exploits his young daughters in front of the camera to boost his popularity. Everyone wants to show off their kids, but to friends and family, not the whole fucking internet.

    His background is littered with failures and businesses that he has milked and mismanaged, leaving employees, customers, and suppliers high and dry. He has been made bankrupt at least once before, and doesn’t hesitate to use people’s ideas, dreams, talents, businesses, or money to further himself.

    Think I’m lying? Read what other people have said about this douche on the blog, and search the internet for clues. All this information is publicly available from the 30 dc inc memorandum, eddale.co, tubbynerd.com, underachieving.blogspot.com, sign up for his emails – if you can stomach his illiterate ramblings.

    Does this look like a “good bloke” to you. Wake Up you fucking idiot!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +40

    [Reply]

    Dan Raine's Pink Thong Reply:

    @ballsack, you forgot to mention that he also pimps Traffic Bug

    http://www.ratracewinner.com/the-ed-dale-traffic-bug-scandal-review/

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    SD Reply:

    @Cisco ::

    That video won’t be coming down. Ever.

    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:

    @SD,

    Well, the video seems to be down now.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • barkingmad said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

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    Poop Chute Reply:

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    Kann Reply:

    @barkingmad,

    yeah, I guess if a guy is going bald or has hair transplants because he wants to look good, he must be a bad dude.

    /sarcasm.

    Thumb up Thumb down -3

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    @Poop Chute,

    Needless banter. Waste of time. You can’t be friends with everyone. This is the way the real world works, regardless of how many Facebook friends you have.

    Not everyone can sit at the so-called, self-proclaimed “cool kids” table. People share shit with people they like. You can only have so many friends.

    There’s over 200 million people in the US. Sometimes you gotta grow some balls and go claim your own fucking table.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @barkingmad ::

    This module was sent to me by someone who knew I was accumulating evidence on this particular topic. While I refuse to participate in @PoopChute style moralizing about the subject … I don’t personally participate in P2P file sharing of any kind.

    Kern spends more time on his hair than Lady Gaga …

    [Reply]

  • Mr. Anderson said:

    Is everyone in yesterday’s photo part of the syndicate? Looking forward to seeing them get drilled by the droid one by one!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

  • Rafael Marquez said:

    It’s all about semantics. I love how he says “trade union” over and over instead of the more evil and sinister sounding “gang,” “cartel” or “co-conspirators”

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +18

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Rafael Marquez Reply:

    @Marc, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say by the whole coin thing.

    If 2 or more banks work in collusion to not loan to people of certain ethnicities or to keep interest rates artificially high on loans is that not nefarious at some level? Because of the nature of news, agencies that employ journalists have to publish simultaneously, in groups, as the news cycle ebbs and flows.

    I want whatever you’re smoking dude, you’ve obviously got the good stuff.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    Rafael Marquez Reply:

    @Marc, I see what you’re saying now. I, for one, refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I trust you’ve heard that saying.

    Go in peace.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    @Marc, Hey there – how ya doin’? You seem a bit ruffled. Just wanted to sidetrack from the current theme for a moment …

    You lost some of the power of this word picture –

    A coin still has two sides even if you glue it down to a table and force yourself to only see one.

    You should’ve just ended it like this –

    A coin still has two sides even if you glue it down to a table.

    See what I mean? It’s much mo’ better because it gets the reader involved/thinking.

    In fact, if you trim about half to two thirds of your posts, you’d be much more effective.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy, oh yeah — and I meant to say something about glass tables too.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Rafael Marquez ::

    “trade union” … is the subject of the next post!

    … so so stupid.

    [Reply]

  • barkingmad said:

    Poop -no doubt you are right. From a content position, this is quite edited – and the addition of music clearly places this is as entertainment.

    Salty – one wonders how you found the Google Calendar for the syndicate?

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @barkingmad ::

    … one will continue to wonder how I know what I know … forever.

    But I’ve seen the calendar.

    [Reply]

  • barkingmad said:

    Poop – I’m not sure you have properly read Salty’s post. There is a Syndicate Calendar where all syndicate launches are posted – this is well known fact. Salty obviously has access – hence how he knows [mikefilsaime] is up next.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Nikki Reply:

    @barkingmad, and in fact look what’s appeared in my inbox this afternoon from Ryan Deiss…

    “Here’s a cool presentation about the current state of
    affiliate marketing:

    http:// www. drivingtraffic.com/is-affiliate-marketing-dead/

    According to these guys, everything about affiliate market
    (i.e. making money selling other people’s stuff) has
    totally changed.

    In fact, they’re pretty much saying it’s “DEAD!”

    If you’re an active affiliate marketer (or just new to all this
    online marketing stuff), it’s worth spending 31 minutes to
    see what they have to say.

    http:// www. drivingtraffic.com/is-affiliate-marketing-dead/

    Talk soon,
    Ryan”

    And guess who this new product belongs to? Yes, regular as clockwork (& right on schedule) – this one belongs to Mike Filsaime.

    *sigh*

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

  • Kann said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -15

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -10

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

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    Marc Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -10

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    Marc Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    Poop Chute Reply:

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    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

  • Calendar said:

    Here is a public calendar of most of the launches. Not sure if this is the source:

    http://jvnotifypro.com/

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Calendar ::

    Most of the people on that list are “B-team” …

    [Reply]

    Sue J Reply:

    @Calendar,

    You gotta love it!

    “New Product Launch Announcements Marked JV Invite Request* are closed programs that require proof of prior ability to convert multiple sales in the niche and at the ticket level of the product being promoted. Qualified candidates … please fill out this form, with your first and last name, best email address, subject= JV Invite Request-the name of the launch you wish to promote, and proof of appropriate past performance. Please do not bother submitting a request without including all of the aforementioned.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    AnonXGuru Reply:

    @Calendar,

    Mike Mertz’s list of launches is not in any way involved with the syndicate. It’s a way for NEWBIE product launchers to get off the ground, I should know, it launched me back in my infoproduct days. (2007-2009)

    The only way to get from Mertz’ group of superaffiliates to the Syndicate was to work hard and long, winning lots & lots of affiliate contests… Then one day they could meet as fellow speakers at a convention.

    Product launchers without a big list of their own need not apply. It’s all about the list.

    Anyway, there are dozens of “entry points” like Mike’s above… Obviously to get in the syndicate you have to proove yourself and then be hand picked by them to enter.

    I also would have to guess there is more than one syndicate out there, because a concept that all gurus love throwing around is “team.” -Reaching out to your competition and making them part of your team.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

  • Big Chuck said:

    Just in time for the release of The Add To Cart Movie! They’re all the stars!

    http://addtocartmovie.com/

    Frank Kern decided to do it last minute ’cause all his boyfriends said nice things.

    http://frankkern.com/?p=4

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    @Big Chuck,

    The movie has a Twitter feed too:
    http://twitter.com/addtocartmovie

    “Guru’s, millionaires, dopers, porn stars, PUA’s, info-marketers, thought leaders, bloggers… one helluva documentary and good times”

    This tweet should tell you all you need to know about this group. If not, this might also illuminate:

    “Going sarging with some big PUA’s.. this shold make for good film”

    Sarging = going out in public to pick up women for sex. PUA = pick-up artist, aka a sex addict male addicted to picking up women for short-term hookups who studies psychological manipulation for such a purpose.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    NYC Girl Reply:

    @Duff,

    Which of course explains why there are no women in The Syndicate…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +17

    [Reply]

    CleverLdy Reply:

    @NYC Girl, I was about to say the same thing.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    KarinHiebert Reply:

    @CleverLdy, women are on the “C” team…

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Oh No She's Back Reply:

    Actually, only Karin is on the “C” team. “C” being “crazy.” Read her historically lunatic fringe comments on this blog to know more of the history about that. Oh, and her love for Irwin (Frank) Kern.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    SD Reply:

    @NYC Girl ::

    … speaking of no women … quoting Mike Filsaime {street name = The Gnome}

    “We are hiring 50 (Yes Fifty) of the hottest models to be part of the VIP night at on of the Hottest Clubs In Las Vegas… On a Saturday Night.”

    http://saltydroid.info/modeling-for-mike/

    [Reply]

    NYC Girl Reply:

    @SD,

    But of course – female exploitation at its finest, in the city that made it famous!

    *groan*

    These guys are so pathetic.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Dan said:

    Time to call in the FEDS.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Dan ::

    … do it.

    [Reply]

  • Today: Crooks Are Heroes said:

    —————–DISEASE——————-

    - Modern Politicians – The Leaders: Say anything to get in office, and get in office not to better society, but themselves. Behold, your leaders, and thus, emulate them.

    - Bankers – The Builders of Depraved Society: Destroy the middle class with your big obfuscating tomes that really only equate to utter immoral deceptions such as the average citizen ending up paying $227,000 over 30 years for their $100,000 house. All while the Bankers buy yachts and multiple mansions.

    - The Media – The Groundskeeper of Depraved Society: *START BROADCAST* The Politicians and Bankers are our great noble leaders! *END BROADCAST*, Stand up, check bank accounts for result, rinse/repeat.

    ———–SYMPTOM————-

    - Internet Marketers – The Office-Working Proletariat Emulating the Modern Heroes: “Hey guys! People used to make an effort in life and create something great! And then, people admired that greatness they created, they admired what went into it, and that was deemed value! NOT ANYMORE! Look at our leaders! We live in unprecedentedly immoral times! SINK OR SWIM!”

    Am I justifying Internet Marketers?

    No.

    Am I identifying them as a symptom of a most obvious disease?

    Yes.

    To quote a man who saw this coming nearly 100 years ago:

    ———–
    The great masses, who have never been, in the history of mankind, more subject to hypnotic suggestion than they are right now, have become the puppets of the “public opinion” that is engineered by the newspapers in the service, it need hardly be emphasized, of the reigning powers of finance. What is printed in the morning editions of the big city newspapers is the opinion of nine out of ten readers by nightfall.
    ———–

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Today: Crooks Are Heroes ::

    It’s not a justification … for sure.

    But there IS an epidemic of bizzaro world narcissism glorification … and it’s scary.

    [Reply]

    Special K Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Karin Hiebert, are you posting as special K or is that someone trying to be funny? I don’t particularly care for you doing whatever for a free heater from Kern, but seems like someone is obsessive about you. Smells like a classic Kilstein obsessiveness.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Business Growth Strategies said:

    The Guru-Sycophant Syndrome…

    It all started as a tweet: Most gurus surround themselves w/ sycophants to build their egos. And most gurus don’t like me because I’m not a sycophant. Actually, it started before that. You see, yesterday (August 11, 2010) I was talking on t…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

  • SD (author) said:

    From Ryan’s article … http://www.ryanhealy.com/guru-sycophant-syndrome/

    “Surrounding yourself with sycophants is a recipe for delusion. At first, you may have self-doubt. But that will be washed away by the slobber of your rabid fans faster than you can say “I’m awesome.””

    ha!

    [Reply]

  • anti-syndicate said:

    Right on salty… I mentioned the syndicate to you over a year ago in one of my comments here on this blog – (i am sure you can check my ip, although not really sure why)

    There are many more than you’ve mentioned who are in this group of sleazy hustlers (some are listed below).

    I have a question about a few of the top gurus who seemed to distance themselves right when the syndicate was formed. Which by the way – Do you know that story? How, where and who formed it? (Ii do – and it’s evolution is quite interesting – I won’t give you all the juicy details here (salty if you don’t know those – shoot me an email)

    Anyhow, the Syndicate got its start when jenkins shot an email out to all the top gurus asking about advice about justified complainers on Stomper’s forum and if he should create a single thread for them to post so it could be better controlled. This way they wouldn’t be all over the forum.

    He received many answers most of which cc’d the entire group. Questions and comments continued to be blasted out between these guys.

    Next, some of the same gurus spoke at a certain guru’s event and group emails went around about what they could get away with on stage. (what’s interesting to me is that the guru whose event it was – one of the big dogs – began distancing himself [or at least appeared to -ie participation in launches and such...] from this group soon thereafter).

    Too many emails were flying back and forth between these shitweasals that kern decided to get a list-server. This way all there schemes and messages could be centralized and broadcasted (would make great evidence in the criminal case, don’t you think?).

    Later a meeting happened – there they decided on the members. There was actually quite a few arguments – of course, some decisions were unanimous and those shitweasels were invited to join the evildoers. Arguments were heated about a few – but shit fell together as pagan took the lead (although it’s rumored he’s really a puppet leader that kern controls) and settled it – no new members should be allowed in the group. It was big enough.

    They’ve since had a few big pow-wows. One the day after kern’s second mass control event at his office. You can get a sense of who is in the group (and who isn’t) based on who attended and spoke – although there was one or two speakers who are not members of the syndicate. Reese, Belcher, Deiss, Mulligan, Filsaime, Walker, Kern, Koenigs, Pagan, Jenkins, Fallon, Johnson are all members.

    They coordinate launches – with an actual calendar. They coordinate launch themes so nobody steps on anyone else’s toes and everyone can promote one after the other. They decide who is going to promote who and when they’ll do it.. And they pass along valuable information to each other. The information ranges from new top affiliates to contact, new traffic sources to tap into, the results of surveys so they can develop products that will sell better to the same group of customers getting passed along, and basically everything you would think of – and not think of. For example, when kern spent big money on a full day of consulting with Dan Kennedy who took pages of notes on locking customers into continuity programs and as soon as he got back he sent it to all the members.

    Anyway, as I said, there are a few big name gurus who aren’t in the group – I wonder if they weren’t invited in or had the decency and intelligence to not get involved with something so unethical and illegal. Maybe you know?

    What I do know is this: The big gurus who aren’t a part of the group saw it as a cartel. And they were dammed pissed off about what these slimeballs were doing to the market – putting a stain of deceit on everyone in the industry.

    I really hope you take these guys down.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +36

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @anti-syndicate ::

    Interesting comment … thanks. Some of that is news to me … hit me up by email and tell me whatever. I’m forever curious.

    It’s true that many people saw this for what is was … it’s not very subtle. That’s how I found out about it … so early … and so often.

    I hope WE can take these guys down … together … cause I can’t do it by myself.

    [Reply]

    Jay Reply:

    For anyone who cares…link to this post…make comments elsewhere…blog your opinion. Otherwise nothing changes.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Jay ::

    Indeed. If you’ve ever wanted to help me … or if you’ve longed for change in this “industry” … for the chance to be honest and still succeed … then this is the moment.

    As long as this cartel exists … no change … and nothing good is possible.

    And if you held back on acknowledging my existence because you feared you might be next … then …

    1. Clean up your act.

    2. Unless you are in this Syndicate … openly supporting it … or trying to become part of it … then you ain’t on my fucking list.

    [Reply]

    Liar Crusher Reply:

    @SD,

    I do hope you will be posting the juicy connective tissue details you learn, SD, from @anti-syndicate. We need to know who is in what camp, and on whose word we can take *that* info. The last thing we want to do is target more innocent people, including those that may (hypothetically and skeptically speaking) be in IM without the black heart and shit for brains.

    Liar Crusher

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Circle Jerk Outsider Reply:

    @anti-syndicate, this is very interesting. Actually, the seeds of the syndicate began around 2002 or 2003. I watched it happen. They weren’t as organized as they are now, and their circle wasn’t as wide… but they were very effective in blacklisting any marketer who wouldn’t align with them.

    I’ve watched their size and power continue to grow over the years. They have always put profit above quality, and have always treated their customers like shit. However, they have somehow retained the power to cover up their dirty laundry and continue to sell millions of dollars of products to the masses.

    I’ve listened to them laugh about how their products are shit, but if the people buy the stuff, then they deserve to be scammed. I’m one of the marketers who distanced myself from the group early on, and would love to see this blow up in their faces.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Curious said:

    Times are a changin’ I see Fat Pat O’Bryan stuffing his face with mayonnaise and butter sandwhiches yelling “it’ll never go far in court” and Cory Crabby picking his nose in front of the computer saying “oh my god like what fucking syndicate that’s just too conspiracy theory stuff” but don’t be too sure sweetie cakes. I saw an Eric Rockefeller in that IM launch calendar and that’s rumored by Youtube conspiracy folks to be just one family name of the Illuminati, which is supposedly the big world “syndicate” that is controlling everything.

    I can’t say that I believe the Illuminati conspiracies now, nor can I totally say that I believe there’s a Syndicate in IM, but I do think there is something quite strange to this whole thing and it’s not what any of us every day folks ever imagined or expected.

    Times are a changin’ fast. Truth is often stranger than fiction.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Nuisance to the Douche-ance said:

    The course of action we need to take here is obvious. We need to take away their power, and their power comes from one thing only.

    Think about it guys; they don’t actually know how to market. The only thing they know how to do is boost up their names by getting other douche bags to say nice things about them.

    Take away the power of each of their NAMES and the whole thing falls apart.

    How do we do that?

    First, we need to start getting the word out about this site so that the potential victims know the truth.

    Next, we need to amp up the pressure so that any mainstream support for these guys withers away. For example, surely Tony Robbins won’t want to keep supporting these guys if he knows there is an FTC investigation pending on them.

    Then we need to use their own tactics on them. Shit stain Filsaime claims to be a viral marketing wizard. See below for a viral marketing idea to alert people of his evil.

    Finally, we need to contact their major supporters. Filsaime is trying to get buddy buddy with paypal and clickbank. Let’s make sure both of those companies know they are dealing with a criminal. Anyone who has been burned by him contact Tony Robbins, contact paypal, contact clickbank and tell them your story. Show them the rip off reports and the horror stories. When the FTC finally gets off its ass and gets a case going against this public menace make sure everyone knows about it. Don’t assume peope know the truth. The victims obviously don’t.

    *******************************

    Now, here’s a little song I put together, inspired by the cute little rapper girl that has clearly been brainwashed by the duchebags at Influence Engines. (Baby girl – call me! ;-) Your talents are too awesome to waste on the d-bags. People will forgive you. You’re young. Turn states evidence.)

    “Filsaime is a Shit Stain”

    (sung to the tune of “Insane In The Membrane”)

    Who you tryin’ to make money with ese?
    Don’t you know I’m a douche?

    To da one on da cold call trip
    I’ll just burn your card till you’re eatin’ dog food from a can
    You’re done, when I call and slam
    Your retirements gone and then I’m gone like *bam!*

    Don’t make me call Pauli Sabol, (smiles)
    I’ll put your kids on a cruise with that pedophile
    I need to buy more drugs and hair plugs
    So, I’m gonna get my money by connin’ you ‘nugs

    Oh, makin’ my mind blow
    That’s why I don’t give a fuck if I made ya go broke
    Bro, I got ta’ maintain
    ‘Cause a douche like me is a real shit stain

    Filsaime is a Shit Stain
    (Filsaime shit stain)
    Filsaime is a Shit Stain
    (Filsaime shit stain)
    Filsaime is a Shit Stain
    (Mike Filsaime, brown shit stain)
    Filsaime is a Shit Stain
    (Filsaime shit stain)

    Shit Stain, you’re over
    all your buddies squeal (just ask Tom Beal)
    Cooperatin’ with the Feds and back stabbin’ deals
    They’re gettin’ ready for when you’re behind bars
    Stashin’ your money in mason jars

    **** you get the idea :D

    Stain Stain Filsaime, I hope every time you hear that song you think about “Mike Filsaime – Brown Shit Stain”

    I hope every time you hear your name you think “Shit Stain”

    Maybe you’ll change your name again “Fill-Sammy” “Filsaime” “whatever your name is, you’re a shit stain Filsaime”

    Or maybe just OWN who you really are and open up DoucheDOTcom.com

    “Hi, My name is shit stain Filsaime and I will sell you vapid hopes and dreams, and software that doesn’t work. What does it cost? How much is on your card?”

    Let’s do this. The douche bags will then try to go underground, but it won’t be easy. We’ll be ready for the next battle.

    Let’s not stop until Kern goes back to selling dog poop.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    @Nuisance to the Douche-ance,

    “surely Tony Robbins won’t want to keep supporting these guys if he knows there is an FTC investigation pending on them.”

    Careful–Robbins helped invent the infomercial. He’s one of them.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Duff ::

    IMHO :: he’s much worse than them.

    [Reply]

  • The Edge said:

    I love the way the sycophants are swarming around this blog now saying things like “some of the original stompernet crew hate these scammers”.

    YOU ARE ALL SCAMMERS!

    Stompernet = scam.

    Anyone EVER involved in Stompernet = scammer.

    Don’t think you’ll get away because you are on the outskirts of this mob of bottom feeding liars and cheats.

    If people like Ed Dale want to stand around and desperately grasp at immunity from all of this (and boy oh boy is he trying to do that at the moment, massing his “don’t feed the trolls” troops all over the place to try and stay off the radar of things like this they need to wake up and smell the coffee. Ed Dale – you are currently promoting Ryan Deiss junk in your 30 day challenge – you are no different from these guys and should be treated exactly the same way.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @The Edge ::

    I don’t totally agree with you about StomperNet.

    So Ed Dale is denying his membership in The Syndicate?

    [Reply]

    Probably Reply:

    @SD, Ed Dale was Kern’s partner in the underachiever method and he talks at Kern’s mass control event.

    Dale IS a big part of the syndicate because he boasts about being Kern’s top affiliate.

    Dale is a more sophisticated operator because he is taking his crap to the stockmarket, and is aiming to buy peoples business with his worthless stock.

    He shut down comments on his blog after you called him out on his ipo. Running scared maybe?

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Probably ::

    Actually that move makes him LESS sophisticated not more. A smart con focuses his energy on areas where the rules are the fewest. Offering public stock puts you under the domain of thousands of pages of rules … thus the permeant mercy of The Man.

    [Reply]

    Nero Reply:

    @SD, there is a lot of potential for Ed Dale to do shenanigans when listing as a company with a market capitalization under $250m. The reporting requiremets for these companies are very minor compared to a bona fide NASDAQ listed company.

    quoted from wikipedia –

    Microcap stock fraud is a form of securities fraud involving stocks of “microcap” companies, generally defined in the United States as those with a market capitalization of under $250 million. Its prevalence has been estimated to run into the billions of dollars a year. Many microcap stocks are penny stocks, which trade at below $5 a share.

    Microcap stock fraud generally takes place among stocks traded on the OTC Bulletin Board and the Pink Sheets Electronic Quotation Service, stocks which usually do not meet the requirements to be listed on the stock exchanges. Some fraud occurs among stocks traded on the NASDAQ Small Cap Market, now called the NASDAQ Capital Market.

    Microcap fraud encompasses several types of investor fraud:

    Pump and dump schemes, involving use of false or misleading statements to hype stocks, which are “dumped” on the public at inflated prices. Such schemes involve telemarketing and Internet fraud.

    Chop stocks, which are stocks purchased for pennies and sold for dollars, providing both brokers and stock promoters massive profits. Brokers are often paid “under the table” undisclosed payoffs to sell such stocks.

    Dump and dilute schemes, where fraudulent companies repeatedly issue shares by no valid reason. Companies using this kind of scheme tend to periodically reverse-split the stock and/or change name.

    Other unscrupulous brokerage practices, including “bait and switch,” unauthorized trading, and “no net sales” policies in which customers are prohibited or discouraged from selling stocks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcap_stock_fraud

    It would be interesting to hear from someone who knows more about microcaps.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Pump and Dump Reply:

    @Nero,

    Check out the story of Tony Robbins and the Australian company Empowernet International.

    Ed Dale is just “modeling” Tony.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    Cirque de Jerk Reply:

    @Nero,

    Check this out http://www.thestreet.com/story/776800/made-for-each-other-wall-street-sleaze-and-anthony-robbins.html

    The Tony Robbins scam made him $246 million profit. I doubt that any syndicate member makes that much from selling $2000 frauducts or $100,000 “coaching programs” to internet marketers.

    Frank Kern is buddies with Tony Robbins and Ed Dale is in bed with Kern, so this is proably what they are doing.

    Check this out http://training.tonyrobbins.com/355/interview-with-frank-kern-and-john-reese-2/

    NOT COOL

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    Troller Reply:

    I think Ed Dale is modeling Warren Buffet, except Berkshire Hathawy’s shares actually have value http://www.eddale.co/general/30dc-inc-why-we-are-going-public-30dc

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    @Troller,

    Buffet is a long-time coaching client of Tony Robbins.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    Something… does… not… compute… Reply:

    @The Edge,

    Ed Dale can hardly deny his involvement with the syndicate when he and Frank sold “Underacheiver Formula” to Russell Brunson:

    http://community.icontact.com/p/dotcomsecrets/newsletters/legendary/posts/this-changed-my-life-forever-thanks-frank-kern-and-ed-dale

    Brunson claims to have updated the “formula” but at the same time, Ed Dale claims to be at the cutting edge with his 30 day challenge and immediate edge, which are both based on the underachiever formula.

    I’ll leave you to decide whether you want to pay $2,995 for this.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Name Unimportant said:

    Salty,

    Bravo!

    One thing to add to your insightful post is the fact that this level of croneyism is also perpetuated at the expense of the marketplace in more ways than one. And sometimes, such ways are subtle and cunning.

    For example, when one launches their pricey product promoted by their cronies, they eventually (and sometimes shortly thereafter) give away their once high-priced product as a free bonus during a colleague’s subsequent launch.

    It’s infuriating to me to see people paying several thousands of dollars for a product during one big launch, only to see it being given away as a free bonus, less than a few months later, as an incentive to buy from their affiliate link for another crony’s big launch.

    Circlejerk, indeed.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Name Unimportant ::

    Indeed. Also the subject of a near future post.

    The bonuses are big part of concentrating all the money with the A-Team. In one of the posts about Ryan someone posted a bunch of vids of B-teamers making their own sad “bonus” pitches for Perpetual Traffic … because that’s how they’ve been told to do it. But they don’t understand that they’ve been set up to compete with Syndicate bonuses … which are “valued” in multithousands … and were recently hyped as the thing “everybody” had to have.

    It’s sick.

    [Reply]

    Sue J Reply:

    @SD,

    This was the first thing that came to mind after watching the Kern video you posted.

    (Ab)Use the B marketers in hyping and building awareness of the product, knowing that the average person is going to shop the bonuses, so their promotions result in sales for the A-Team.

    Also interesting that the affiliate website like “XYZBonus.com” are always owned by the same group of people. Guess the B marketers don’t get the product names and launch calendar.

    It is truly disgraceful.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Slick Reply:

    @Sue J and SD,

    To really appreciate how slick these guys are, you have to understand the idea of having all the ‘B listers’ add bonuses at all…

    It’s not necessarily about the bonuses themselves per se.

    When a potential prospect is asking: “Which bonus should I get? Which affiliate should I buy through?”

    Here’s what they’re NOT asking:

    “SHOULD I BUY?”

    By having each affiliate add bonuses to their packages…the question of whether to buy or not psychologically (and emotionally) shifts to: “WHICH ONE should I buy?” as opposed to just whether to buy or not. ‘Which one’. Not ‘should I’? The whole situation psychology sets you up to psychologically imply you ARE going to buy. It’s only a question of which one.

    It’s the idea of adding 2 options of Gold or Silver and, say, making gold $97 a month and silver $97 a month, but having gold offer more stuff than silver. You go: “Oh, well obviously gold is the better deal. More stuff. Same price.”

    You’re not asking: “Should I even buy this?”
    But you’re asking: “Which one…”

    “Should I” vs “Which one”

    And, from an A listers view, and that’s the slickness of having all affiliates create bonuses.

    They don’t want bonuses to be completely awful so people ask for refunds, but the fact that people offer them just means they have a higher chance of having prospects (often the affiliates themselves) ask the “right” question in their mind…and the “right” question is: “WHICH ONE”. Not “Should I”.

    Not “yes or no”, but “this or that”.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Slick ::

    Good point.

    [Reply]

  • SD (author) said:

    @PoopChute ::

    1. I only lightly skim your stupid comments … just so you know.

    2. I find you just as useless whether you are agreeing with me or not.

    @Marc ::

    You missed the whole point boss. The story isn’t “look I found a video that makes it look like there’s a syndicate” … nope. The story is … there is a Syndicate that I … and many others … know all about. The video just allowed me to present the story in way that even the truest of true believers would have a hard time denying.

    [Reply]

  • Don't Let Me Down said:

    @salty

    This is all very exciting… seriously I have been waiting for this type of thing since @mikefilsaimeinsider appeared to be taking his conspiracy paranoia off of the deep end.

    Now you show up with something like this.

    I myself love a good conspiracy theory… especially if it is playing out to be true.

    Just don’t let me down like the Tom Hanks movie Angels and Demons… when the ‘illuminati’ turned out to be fake I was pissed at the end. Don’t lead me on :)

    So what is next? What should or could happen to these guys? What would or should a person do if they wanted to join the battle?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    hypnogage Reply:

    @Don’t Let Me Down, Robert Anton Wilson anyone? ;) Yummy stuff…

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Jay Reply:

    @Don’t Let Me Down said:

    “What would or should a person do if they wanted to join the battle?”

    1. Link to here

    2. Comment elsewhere

    3. Blog your opinion

    Just don’t sit there!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Don’t Let Me Down ::

    I’m still waiting for my call from the PuppetMaster. Me thinks he might fear me!

    Fuck you PuppetMaster … I was always gonna say no anywayz.

    [Reply]

  • Maconga said:

    Aim for the water line!

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    @SaltyDroid

    I think Frank Kern & his gay Syndicate have been on watch of this blog which has exposed these clowns for their sleazy business practices…

    And I think they made this video to actually warn YOU that they want to take you out… And that they suggest you form a Syndicate at the very least….

    Maybe you can start a for no-profit organization? (Don’t if that’s legal when your agenda is to expose scammers – which they clearly are.)

    You need to get more organized to take them out. You need a team to expose these scammers for the rotting shit of humanity that they are.

    Destroying lives, bankrupting people, taking people’s money unrightfully, fooling people and wasting their time.

    My advice: Get more organized. This video I believe is directed to you. I believe the Syndicate has read posts on this blog and they have also read my posts. They are probably pissed off. And I could sense the subtle anger that Frank Kern was suggesting and he was also confirming his dark motives to you.

    These guys are pure scums.

    PS. I am a online business owner. An affiliate marketer. But I am NOT in the “make money online” niche or any bs like that. Also I am in the PUA niche and I personally plan to take out Eben’s business and destroy this clown after I found the scum that he is.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    dave miz Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -10

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Marc,

    Learn to stop judging others without first knowing them yourself.

    Just because a person is in business doesn’t mean they are scums. There is nothing wrong with becoming wealthy – you just need to do it honestly and make sure you never hurt anybody in the process.

    PS. I offer a LIFE-TIME refund policy with inflation as well as any shipping costs my customers had to incur. And no I don’t charge $2000 fucking dollars unlike these d-bags….

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    I’m not even in their pathetic niche.

    The whole “make money online” niche I am personally disgusted with…

    So no, I hate these morons.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Marc,

    Selling PUA is about becoming educated & better with the interaction with the opposite sex. It’s almost the same as selling a book on how to become a better salesmen.

    Make Money Online – gives false hopes with zero to no return. All content can be found for free.

    PUA – CAN give false hopes BUT that depends on the company selling PUA content.

    Bottom line: You can be unethical in any business. I do my best to give as much & to keep my price EXTREMELY low with a life-time refund policy as well as not misrepresenting the product or selling rehash.

    And finally – learn to stop personally attacking others. I bet the majority of people who say obnoxious things online wouldn’t have the balls to do it offline.

    And I think that rule for these scammers too. They either scam through informecials or online or through direct mail. Never in person.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

  • Bob Dole said:

    Droid, I always knew you were a freakin’ genius but you really one-upped yourself on this one brother. I vote this for best blog post of 2010. No f**k that best post of the decade man!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Bob Dole ::

    That’s ridiculous!

    … but you’re probably right.

    [Reply]

  • Dont Let Me Down said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

  • Nuisance to the Douche-ance said:

    How to Sabotage a Crime Wave

    (guys, vote down all this “illuminati” crap. those are mostly syndicate sock puppets trying to distract you)

    Let’s do this for the next big crime wave, I mean, er, launch.

    Step 1. Alert their promoters

    If anyone sends you an email promoting that crap, reply back with a link to this blog post asking for an opinion. Say, “did you know you were aiding a felony?”

    Step 2. Alert their blogs

    Set up redirect links to this blog post, and post blog comments everywhere that link back to this blog post.

    (if you link to this directly they will delete the comment. If you set up redirects they will have to waste time looking at every comment and checking every link.)

    Step 3. Alert their staff

    Put in support tickets to their staff telling them about this blog post. Ask if they are ready to go to jail for their overlord.

    Step 4. Spread the word

    Put up links to this post on facebook, twitter, everywhere. Reply to posts from their supporters with questions about this felony and links to this post.

    Step 5. Shut down their commerce

    Contact all of the card companies that are processing orders for them and ask if they were aware they were processing cards for a felon.

    Guys, SD can’t do this alone. He needs your help. Get out there and DO this. You’ll feel better about yourself because you’ll be preventing people from losing their life savings and dignity to these d-bags.

    Can someone systematize this?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    Spork Reply:

    Good advice. It really does NOT take much effort to do any of these things.

    Another thing every person reading this (that’s YOU!) needs to keep in mind is this:

    >> Most people assume someone else will do something, so they don’t ever bother. <<

    The problem is: that means *nobody* bothers! Let's not have NOBODY doing anything!

    Take just 5 minutes to do any one or more of those things. It's quick, easy, and will really make a difference.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    Nuisance to the Douche-ance Reply:

    @Marc, or should I say “Mike” or “Frank” or whoever it is you’re shilling for?

    No.

    Seems to me YOU are losing. You’ve damaged enough people with your crimes that they are starting blogs, voting your shilling attempts down, and getting ready to put a SERIOUS hurt on you con artists.

    Don’t worry. They have special tiny cells for Vicious Garden Gnomes in prison. You can start a new website: AssRapeAConArtistOnlineDOTCOM.com

    After PayPeopleOnline.com EPIC FAILS (only a retard wouldn’t be able to see through the obvious gaping holes in your moronic plan), you can shake your ass for the camera to scrounge up money for smokes. Maybe you’ll make enough money to pay off the large men who are ass raping you for real and get a day of reprieve.

    Heads up for you, Mikey Fill-Sammy: why am I so pissed off? Because my grandfather is one of the people your phone room screwed out of EVERY DIME he had. You think people you burned so bad won’t organize?

    THINK AGAIN SHIT STAIN!

    Come on people. The time is now. We have our opportunity to take these criminals DOWN.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    Nuisance to the Douche-ance Reply:

    @Marc, Shit Stain Filsaime, what is that? The poetry of con-artistry? Someone is furious at you for destroying the golden years of his grandfather and you use your little influence sophistry to try to make him doubt himself?

    YOU ARE PURE EVIL.

    And you have just made us even more determined to take each of you down, systematically, one by one. Starting with YOU Vicious Garden Gnome.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

  • tony robbins filthy sack said:

    Don’t forget our buddy Tony “Horseteeth” Robbins! He joined the syndicate late, but got off to a rockin’ start.

    Here’s a real gem:

    http://training.tonyrobbins.com/748/why-dudes-shouldn’t-give-motivational-speeches/

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @tony robbins filthy sack,

    I think that Guy stole Napoleon Hill’s work…

    The whole self-help industry has stolen the work of Napoleon Hill. Napoleon Hill at the end of his life became penniless not because he was a fraud or was preaching bs – it was because he would charge people very little money.

    His billionaire friend bailed him out.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @tony robbins filthy sack ::

    OMG that video! I hope it was supposed to be a joke.

    Your man TR had a deep and telling interaction with The Syndicate … but he’s not in it.

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    @SD,

    LOL that shit is so fucking funny!

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    tony robbins filthy sack Reply:

    @SD, ya i know TR is on the fringe – but still involved, no less…

    i was just looking for a reason to post that excellent video. it proves the point that the self-help industry is all just a whole bunch of BULLSHIT.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Poop Chute Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    If Frank Kern, Eben Pagan, Perry Belcher, Andy Jenkins, Mike Filsaime, Ryan Deiss, John Reese, Jeff walker and any other douche is reading this…

    Who the fuck do you think you guys are? You living pieces of fucking shit….you worthless fake millionaires….

    @ Nuisance to the Douche-ance

    Yeah! Let’s get this shit started… Let’s report them to their merchant account providers & payment processing providers!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

  • Lex talionis justice said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

  • Nat said:

    I wonder if John Reese’s decision to “sell it all and travel the world” has anything to do with this. Might be handy to be someplace with no extradition laws when the shit hits the fan.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Nat,

    LOL

    when you play with fire – you have to run away from getting burned.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Jean D said:

    Good job,Droid. After days away from the computer because my old PC hard drive crashed,I see some interesting posts. Wow,you’ve sure got ‘em coming out of the woodwork to challenge and attack you. You sure are hitting sore spots. Keep it up!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    If anybody carefully review Mr. Frank Kern’s video they will realize that in the end – he has set this whole thing up as a Pyramid structure. It’s basically set-up so only a top few win while the rest lose.

    Also on 1:58 in the video – he speaks with a very angry tone yet subtle and it seems like he’s directing to someone else.

    This what he says “It’s probably very obvious to you that top people in the internet marketing space promote each other…”

    And on :12 he says “I’m advising to form a Syndicate in a subtle threatening manner”

    Creepy guy… and has a criminal feel to him.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    Pyramids are what he knows. Recall that our bud Irwin F. Kern was busted by the FTC for running an illegal chain marketing scheme in 2003:
    http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/dojsweep/031014k4globalstp.pdf
    http://www.ftc.gov/os/2003/05/k4globaltro.pdf

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • the voice of reason said:

    Sorry, Salty, I wish you were on to something, but you’re not. Of course Frank and his posse are trying to corner the rainbow chaser market. But get real–they aren’t controlling the access to a vital resource. It’s not oil, which kicked off the whole anti-trust “gotta protect the lil people” persecution. And, it’s not Microsoft playing harball with OEMs and freezing out those who wouln’t play by the rules from access (at a price that allowed them to compete as computer manufacturers) to the ultra essential MS Dos and then Windows.

    Just check out Warrior forum, or do a search for any bullshit term like “list building” and you’ll find there are no shortage of people hawking either their own, or other’s products and how to do this and that and everything in the area of making money sitting on your ass in your parent’s basement.

    And, in case you missed it, Kern said he had over 400 affiliates. Come one come all, it seems. Of course they have no fucking chance in hell of competing against the likes of Pagen (who gave away his $2000 Altitude program as a bonus for buying using his like), or Filsaime, who gave away his $2000 7 figure income program for signing up with his affiliate link). What…some guy is going to buy from Johnny Alsoran who is throwing in a few shitty PLR reports as a bonus for buying through his links? Sorry, but that’s not a crime.

    Pagen, Kern, Filsaime, Schefren and the band of merry men all have well developed suckers lists of pansies who are addicted to the dream of something for nothing. Seriously, these guys are one step removed from bonafide drug pushers. Of course they’re going to be able to pound out some big numbers by hyping the product of the month to their lists. Is it really a surprise–or shock–that these guys are accounting for 90% of the sales of any given get rich quick product?

    Salty, why does it always come back to your demented ulta liberal poisoned mindset? No one is guaranteed jack shit. It’s not the government’s job to make sure every slob has the same level of opportunity.

    Seriously, this is one of your most baseless idiotic posts (and that is saying something).

    If people can’t crack the get rich quick market and make a buck off of the rainbow chasers because a group of greasy assholes have cultivated a massive list of people who deserve to be fleeced (for seeking something for nothing–I have ZERO sympathy for these idiots who get swept up into shelling out $2K for something they can find on amazon.com for $30).

    If the assholes on warrior forum can’t get in on the gravy train and make a buck off the sad sack losers addicted to this shit, then I say bravo syndicate. The world doesn’t need anymore asshole “gurus” telling people how to make millions working 4 hours a fucking week.

    If the FCC can’t use the laws it introduced last December to silence the “you can make huge money” bullshit (prohibiting the use of testimonials and statements of how much you can make without saying, point blank that the average person will not only not make that much, but will in fact make NOTHING–has everyone forgotten about that law, which was supposed to shut these fuckers down!?!?!??!), then they certainly aren’t going to be able to use the anti-trust laws.

    Nope, your hardon is unwarranted, Salty. Kern didn’t damn himself. Not at all. Sorry.

    Don’t get me wrong–I wish to fuck he had. I ripped his list control, and it was pure shit at any price–much less $2K. It boggles the mind that this inbred “surfer dude” is making a boatload of money off of shit like that. To me, he’s the worst of the lot (Pagen, Reese, Deiss, Filsaime, et al) in terms of completely useless shit.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • Dan Thies said:

    Well Salty,

    I love reading your hilarious blog, even when I don’t agree with you. This is one of those times when I’m not sure if I agree with you or not.

    I’ve got more to say, but I think I’ll probably say too much as it is, so I’ll leave the rest (questions about ethics, merits of products, specific people) for another time, or perhaps another lifetime. ;-)

    I’ve spent a good part of the day trying to decide whether it’s even worth commenting on this post. I have nothing to gain, and plenty to lose if you’re right, because if you’re right, then the simple act of acknowledging your existence dooms me to a fate worse than Ben Mack.

    Does the Syndicate exist? Yes, it does – it’s been one of the worst-kept secrets in Internet Marketing for a few years now.

    On the surface, it’s a “mastermind group” – that is to say, a group of people engaged in similar endeavors, who discuss their challenges and learnings with each other. Ben Franklin invented this form of joint learning/teaching, I believe.

    Quite obviously, this group of friends has a *very* strong tendency to promote each others’ products, and quite evidently, the members of this group don’t carry out product launches at the same time.

    Whatever caused you to wait an entire year before posting something about the Syndicate, it wasn’t any of that – because anyone observing the cycle of launches would figure out that “the same people” promote each other’s launches with great predictability.

    Heck, they even refer to each other as part of their “mastermind group” in public, and many of them have no hesitation in speaking the name of the group.

    Is the Syndicate an illegal cartel? I don’t know the answer to that. If it is, then it ought to be dealt with by whoever deals with such things, or more likely, whoever in the bowels of government utterly fails to do so.

    I’m still trying to figure out exactly where the line gets crossed, and the members become criminals. I know what it “looks like” – and it may very well be all that.

    Example #1:
    Alice meets Bob at an Internet Marketing seminar where they are both speaking. Alice likes what Bob is teaching, Bob likes what Alice is teaching. They agree to promote each others’ products as affiliates.

    (If that’s illegal, then thousands of people commit this crime every day.)

    Example #2:
    Alice is preparing to launch her new product, “Kabillionaire Secrets.” Naturally, she reaches out to Bob because he’s agreed to promote her products. Bob says, “wait Alice, I was planning to launch my new product, Gozillionaire Magic, at the same time.” Alice and Bob agree that they would both be better off not launching at the same time, so they flip a coin to decide who’s going to go first, then promote each others’ products as they launch.

    (Are Alice and Bob committing a crime yet?)

    Example #3:
    Alice later meets Charlie and Dave, and introduces them to Bob. They like each other, and agree to promote each others’ products. Bob then remembers his friend Emily, and after meeting everyone, she agrees to promote everyone else’s products.

    (Is it a criminal conspiracy yet?)

    Example #4:
    After promoting each others’ products for a while, everyone is making more money, and they notice that they *all* make the most money when everyone promotes the same product at the same time – since this creates an “event” which attracts more attention.

    Their new friend Frank (any similarity to actual persons is purely coincidental) suggests that they keep a calendar so everyone will know what everyone else is doing and when. Pretty soon, they’re coordinating the timing of their launches so they can all mail at the same time.

    From that point on, every time one of them launches a product, they mail in near-unison, and no matter what product is being sold, it’s the main topic of conversation over at the “Fighter Forum,” where they are revered as the rock star royalty of Internet Marketing.

    (Is it RICO time yet?)

    Example #5:
    Charlie notices that a new up-and-coming marketer, Zeke, is recruiting affiliates, and planning to launch a competing product at the same time as Bob intends to release his new “Secret Magic Formula Platinum 3.0″ product. Charlie calls Bob, who emails everyone to ask for advice on what to do.

    Is it a crime for Bob or any other member of the group to call Zeke and suggest that he might want to launch at a different time (given that Bob’s launch is likely to be more successful, and deprive Zeke of wanted sales?

    Is it a crime for Bob or any other member of the group to offer Zeke a little “incentive” to move his launch date – like promising to promote Zeke’s product when it launches?

    Is there any difference between Bob doing the above on his own, vs. the group acting in unison – is one of these a crime, and the other not?

    Can we agree that if Zeke *independently* became aware of Bob’s planned launch, he would likely reschedule his launch without any form of coercion, in order to sell more of his fabulous “Money Getting Mojo Secrets” product?

    Example #6:
    Another internet marketer, Yolanda, has noticed the tendency of this group to promote each others’ products, and also that they tend to be the top-ranked affiliates for every launch they participate in.

    Yolanda runs into Dave at an internet marketing seminar and asks him to promote her products. Dave says he’ll “get back to her,” but doesn’t. Has Yolanda been “restrained” in some way because Dave doesn’t promote her products? Is Dave obligated to do so?

    More to the point – if the members of the Syndicate do *not* promote each others’ products exclusively (and it is a fact that they do not), does that make any difference in whether crimes are being committed? If some of them even promoted non-members’ products at the same time as a member was carrying out a launch, would that matter at all?

    Example #7 – and then I will shut up and listen to what you have to say…
    Over time, the members of the group try out different price points for their offers – since they are information products and by their nature each product is unique, it’s hard to determine a fair market value.

    Bob is the first to offer a $500 product and it does well. For a while, $500 products become all the rage in Internet Marketing, until Alice gives a $1000 price point a shot, and makes more money than ever.

    Monkey see, monkey do… affiliates (not just members of the group) like the big fat $500 commissions on that, and pretty soon it’s tough to get anyone interested in promoting a $500 product with its “measly” $250 commission.

    Soon, “everyone” is doing $1000 products, until someone tries a $2000 offer – kicking off the same cycle yet again.

    A couple years later, all the big launches have a $5000 price point, and anyone who tries to sell a $2000 product has a hard time finding anyone willing to promote it for them.

    (Is that price fixing, or an inherent problem with affiliate marketing and products that have no easily measurable value?)

    I’m not trying to be difficult here, I am trying to *understand* – clearly the Syndicate has a substantial effect on Internet Marketing, and it’s not always a positive effect.

    I’m simply not sure how much of that is the result of a criminal conspiracy, and how much is just an emergent property of things that would happen in the marketplace even if this particular group did not exist.

    In my opinion, the Internet Marketing “industry” is broken and sick, and would be so if none of your targets had ever gotten into the business.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +45

    [Reply]

    Über SD Supporter Reply:

    @Dan Thies, 100 points for having the guts to comment here. [Respect.]

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    Nat Reply:

    @Dan Thies, Your examples make sense, and I don’t know whether or not the intent behind a “syndicate” like this would make a difference legally or not.

    But after watching the video that is included in this post, Frank Kern appears to be telling people to organize a syndicate/trade union in their market intentionally, with the goal being the ability to control the market.

    I didn’t buy List Control and haven’t seen the original video, and this one appears to be the “good” parts edited together, so it may not have come across as blatantly in the original. But it still sounds to me like he’s suggesting more than hooking up with marketers that you just “happen” upon, then gradually forming a more formal relationship.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Nat ::

    The edit is basically chronological … with a few clips out of sequence for clarity. I mostly cut out asides … slow writing … hem and haw … redundancies … etc. It accurately frames what he was trying to say.

    He explicitly recommends that you round up your competitors … offer them gifts … and then meet up in hotel room in your home town to talk about ways to give each-other back rubs. He also says he has a bunch of $120,000 per year consulting clients … and the FIRST thing he always tells them is how they should form a syndicate and become its Godfather.

    [Reply]

    Deiss Affiliate Reply:

    @Dan Thies, pretty much the way it goes. The Syndicate is just a little more heavy handed and strategic. They take advantage of what Mr. “pretend genius” Eben Pagan would call emergence.

    I am not a lawyer, so have no way of knowing if there is a case here or not.

    Buy it is clear they collude and take advantage of the little guy, while dangling manna to the wanna be marketers. Did they create the process or did they just emerge? Either way, they need a Salty Droid in their lives.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Dan Thies ::

    Thanks for the RealName comment. Good luck to you … I hope you and Ben Mack are very happy together!

    Your titration of hypotheticals is giving me unwanted flashbacks … but I actually think it makes for a nice illustration. At what point in your sequence do these kinds of behaviors … which in your example are arising “naturally” {unlike the procedure Kern outlines in the video where you are specifically trying to round up 95% of the market share} … become criminal? The answer is :: at some point.

    Antitrust laws are meant to protect competition generally … they aren’t just about “monopolies” as is the common public perception. If your non-competitive actions result in negative marketplace effects … The Man can come after you even if you had no intent. On the flip side … if you get all your competitors into a smoke filled room and you conspire and intend to restrain trade … The Man can come after you even if you utterly fail in your attempts to execute your silly little plan.

    I can tell you as a long time Syndicate watcher :: they aren’t very good at it. But “we suck at carteling” isn’t a recognized defense.

    The fact is this … if you have ANYTHING to lose … don’t meet your competitors in a non public place without consulting your lawyer. If your company has more than 20 people … don’t meet with your competitors without consulting two lawyers … etc. It’s a risky and uncertain area that can only be approached with great caution.

    And that’s just the criminal bit. The civil section is used much more often. Groups of customers could sue this crew for everything they had. Any State AG could sue. The government likes money too … so suits are more attractive than criminal actions.

    That the “industry” as a whole is broken and sick … I’m certainly the choir for that message. And all this talk about laws and blah blah blah … its necessary and important … but it’s not that close to my robot heart. This shit is just WRONG. It’s deception. Fuck the laws … it’s harming your fellow man. Do we need the law to step in an tell us we’re being fucking horrible? What about taking personal responsibility for our own morality? Isn’t James Ray just the most horrible mother fucker no matter what the “law” decides? I think so. Anywayz … different convo.

    Just to bring it all home … from the mouth of The Man to your ears …

    http://www.ftc.gov/bc/antitrust/dealings_with_competitors.shtm

    “In today’s marketplace, competitors interact in many ways, through trade associations, professional groups, joint ventures, standard-setting organizations, and other industry groups. Such dealings often are not only competitively benign but procompetitive. But there are antitrust risks when competitors interact to such a degree that they are no longer acting independently, or when collaborating gives competitors the ability to wield market power together.

    For the most blatant agreements not to compete, such as price fixing, big rigging, and market division, the rules are clear. The courts decided many years ago that these practices are so inherently harmful to consumers that they are always illegal, so-called per se violations. For other dealings among competitors, the rules are not as clear-cut and often require fact-intensive inquiry into the purpose and effect of the collaboration, including any business justifications. Enforcers must ask: what is the purpose and effect of dealings among competitors? Do they restrict competition or promote efficiency?”

    [Reply]

    Dan Thies Reply:

    @SD, thanks for the simple plain English explanation.

    I read some o’ that stuff on that FTC site. Can’t say I enjoyed it any, but I read it. What a stupid confusing mess of contradictory fuzzing it all is.

    In terms of legal issues, I can see how trying to round up the Fords, GMs, Hondas, and Toyotas in your market to create a “trade union” is inherently more risky than the more natural scenarios that I described.

    It’s interesting to consider that an innocent, natural collaboration between peers could become illegal over time.

    What I can’t figure out here is…

    If collaborating as they do is illegal, what’s to stop them from forming a company, similar to a record label, and continuing to do exactly what they are doing now?

    Instead of a dozen competitors colluding, now it’s one company competing. Same exact effect, but suddenly it’s okay?

    I raise this question because the Internet Marketing (infoproduct) “industry” is more like the music industry than, say, the automobile industry.

    If I buy a Ford, I’m very unlikely to buy a Chevy any time soon, because once I choose one, my transportation needs are met.

    Price-fixing would be “easy” in the car business, because we have a very limited number of choices, and you could easily fit the CEOs of *every* competitor into a hotel room.

    It’s also a lot easier to draw hard lines in such an industry. Ford isn’t going to sign up as an affiliate to promote the new Chevy models.

    It’s not like that with information. People regularly go into a book store and walk out with a half dozen books on the same subject.

    People regularly buy more than one training program on “list building” or “product launches.”

    For every “big time goo-roo” course, there are countless lower-cost alternatives. I know people who buy damn near all of them.

    Does it make a difference if Alice teaches list building, Bob teaches Twitter spamming, Charlie teaches affiliate marketing, and so forth?

    I tried to understand how they define a market, and competitors, and got lost in the legalese.

    How do you determine who your “competitors” are, or should be? Is everyone who sells anything related to Internet Marketing a competitor, or only those who teach the same subjects I do?

    Again, I’m not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand. I get that it’s never that simple with this stuff.

    I agree with that wrong is wrong and deception is, um, deceptive – regardless of the legal aspects.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Dan Thies ::

    If they were to form one company … then everyone would know what’s what … so that would be substantially different. 100% less deception. Other companies could form to compete with them … barriers to entry are low. Eben supports Frank … of course he does … they are office mates who work for the same company. That’s different.

    If you try to imagine whether the government would allow such a merger … like when it didn’t allow Staples and Office Depot to merge and go bankrupt together … then you’ll just get lost in a quagmire. Can you form a “monopoly” over a “market” for “goods” that largely a contrivance to which there is no real value. A fraud monopoly? Harming consumers in the market for fraud with excessively high prices … you should be able to buy fraud at half the cost!

    … it doesn’t make sense like that.

    This isn’t about market domination … it’s about actions which were intended to … and did … negatively effect competition and the consumer.

    Lastly :: the “who is my competitor” question can be subtle and vexing. But it’s not here. Because like most everything else discussed on this blog … the example being sited is so far beyond doubt.

    These mother fuckers should have been competing … and they weren’t.

    [Reply]

    Nat Reply:

    @SD, “A fraud monopoly?” – That’s the funniest thing I’ve read today.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    @Dan Thies,

    This is a great example of a logical fallacy known as “The Argument of the Beard”
    http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Master_list_of_logical_fallacies#Argument_Of_The_Beard

    assuming that two ends of a spectrum are the same, since one can travel along the spectrum in very small steps. The name comes from the idea that being clean-shaven must be the same as having a big beard, since in-between beards exist.

    Similarly, all piles of stones are small, since if you add one stone to a small pile of stones it remains small.

    However, the existence of pink should not undermine the distinction between white and red.

    If I touch you gently, it doesn’t harm you. You say I hit you and it hurt, but where along the spectrum from gentle touch, to moderate pressure touch, to poking, to slapping, to full on punching does it change to harm? Since a gentle touch only differs from punching by degree, it cannot be harmful.

    Of course this argument is fallacious, but it is indeed difficult to figure out where to draw the line, especially if you get wrapped up in the greed-fueled seeking of infinitely more wealth with no concern for ethics.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Dan Thies Reply:

    @Duff,

    Yeah yeah, and if I walk halfway across the room, then half the remaining distance, etc. I never get to the other side.

    This kind of crap is why putting down “Professor of Philosophy” on the form under “occupation,” when you’re called in for jury duty, means you get to go home early.

    I’m not trying to “make an argument” here. As I’ve said, I’m trying to understand, and I’m quite content with Salty’s response.

    He says unequivocally that this is an illegal cartel. You don’t see assault cases in court over someone being lightly touched. You’ve either got a damned beard or you don’t.

    His argument is, quite clearly, that this group started all the way at the most anti-competitive end of the spectrum, therefore nobody can claim to have “half a beard.”

    Maybe he’s right. Maybe a judge will decide the issue one day.

    The examples I gave are all discrete states – with specific actions being taken – situations that honest people encounter every day, where they must decide what to do.

    So with respect, I’d say that this stuff is hard to figure out, period, and more so with Internet Marketing, because of the nature of the business.

    Collaboration (affiliate relationships) with “competitors” is the norm in information product marketing, not the exception. That’s not just “internet marketing,” it’s dog training, PUA/misogyny training, and home brewing too.

    An example to illustrate this? Sure, why not…

    Alice sells a DVD which teaches people how to brew beer at home. It’s her only product. Alice spends money to get some leads and offers them her product. Some of them buy it, some of them don’t.

    If they don’t buy her product, she can still earn some commissions by telling people about Bob’s product, a DVD that teaches people to make wine at home. If that fails, maybe they’re interested in Charlie’s videotapes on making moonshine.

    Alice’s own customers, once they’ve watched her DVD, aren;t going to buy a second copy of it from her, but they might be interested in making wine or moonshine.

    Alice can price her product however she wants to – other people offer competing products. Bob and Charlie can do the same.

    And I’m pretty sure that *none* of that is going to lead to Alice, Bob, or Charlie winding up in court… or for that matter, any of them taking a fun-filled ride on the Salty Droid Express.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    James Reply:

    “You don’t see assault cases in court over someone being lightly touched.”

    Actually Dan, you do. I was a jurist on a panel where someone was convicted of assault for something seemingly as minor as just that. I initially found it all very preposterous, but left seeing the defendant convicted and sentenced.

    The law has more teeth and depth than most would ever think.

    These guys should be really, really nervous.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @James ::

    Yep! One of the famous law school cases about assault … like one of the first ones you read … is about a radio show host blowing smoke on an anti-smoking activist during an interview.

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @SD, Does this mean I can have half a beard too?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    SD Reply:

    @Unicorn Army ::

    I’m not ready to take any postions on beards yet.

  • Sherman Act said:

    Salty:

    This is stunning. Fantastic work. Why don’t you put Digg/Facebook/Twitter links on each of your posts to facilitate spreading the word?!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Sherman Act ::

    Thanks!

    I don’t have social interaction buttons because I’ve been banned from two of those three for exercising my rights … it hasn’t put me in the mood to promote their services.

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @SD,

    The douches who you are exposing probably sent a complaint to the social networks.

    Facebook are real asswholes. They ban in a pinch.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed ::

    ya think? revelation

    [Reply]

  • NLP MASTER said:

    I have studied NLP since 1995 and I’m familiar with Eben Pagan’s start on lists with Ross Jeffries. I also know Frank Kern’s interest in NLP and Cialdini-like persuasion. Combine that with listening to Frank Kern talk on the video you posted about being a “Godfather” and creating a “mastermind” or “syndicate” that can be somewhat aggressive in it’s ways and I’m led the think the ideas at work are taken from the guy interviewed on Jonathan Altfeld’s site back in 2001: http://www.altfeld.com/mastery/misc/irc-drsulo.html

    Here’s a quote:

    “I call my team of 3rd parties my “Agressive Mastermind Group.” Napoleon Hill came up with the idea of the mastermind group but it is never really used aggressively. When I first become friends and familiar with my 3rd party, I begin to give them stories on what I call “MOB THEORY” or “GODFATHER THEORY.” These are just general stories that a person can relate to how over time the mob was crushed by the FBI’s ability to DIVIDE AND CONQUER. After my movie and history review, I then give specific examples in the company I am in of how poor LONE SOULS were crushed because they were ALL ALONE. Of course, I am the person they should team up with. Next, I GO FIRST. I demonstrate wherever possible TRUST and EXCLUSIVITY. Meaning I will regard them as SPECIAL. Then I will introduce them to the concept of 3PPI. From there I train them into how it can be used and then I do 3PPI FOR THEM WHENEVER POSSIBLE and POINT IT OUT TO THEM WHENEVER I DO. Then I go over the benefits to THEM for doing whatever third party mission I want to send them on. Then I give them a script. I send them on the mission. And reward them in any way possible if they succeed. This is an overview, but the sharp minds here will begin to see applications for this in their lives.”

    3PPI is another name for talking up the people in your “group” or in Kern’s case “syndicate.”

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @NLP MASTER ::

    New dogs :: old tricks.

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Napoleon Hill taught this concept of creating a mastermind, syndicate or whatever you may want to call it.

    They may not be doing something illegal in terms of creating a syndicate but the purpose behind the Syndicate is not only to gain an edge in the market but it’s to unfairly kill competition. Creating a mastermind in business is great but It’s illegal for them to destroy competition & suppress it but not illegal for them to dominate.

    I believe their have been stories of them destroying upcoming marketers.

    But besides that the products they promote are highly over-priced & rehashed. Mike Filsaime never made a penny outside of the IM niche. He even admitted to a guy who actually went to his home in Long Island, NY.

    And by the way, Eben Pagan’s business courses are REHASHED… They have great content but they are over-priced and rehashed.

    You can find the stuff he teaches in Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Borders or some other bookstores for a lot cheaper.

    In Get Altitude: he stole a lot of the content from Napoleon Hill’s book the “Law of Success” which you can pick up for $20 bucks on Amazon. Some of the content was taken from Tony Schwartz’s books that each cost no more than $20 bucks on Amazon. I think he charged $2000 for this program when you could have gotten all the content for no more than $80 bucks at the most. All he did was put it on video, put more fluff into it, invite some guest speakers and that’s it. Some may argue you learn better from video but $2000 still doesn’t justify it.

    He was able to sell it off because of his great ability to BS. He’s a very slick salesmen. Be careful from him.

    SAVE YOUR MONEY!

    And by the way, Tony Schwartz was his mentor and he still stole from him.

    His productivity course “Wake Up Productive” was completely rehashed from Tony Schwartz books and some other great businessmen and executives. You could have gotten all the information from a great bookstore for no more than a $100 bucks. More likely a lot less…

    Yet he charged $1777 for it. Some may argue that he put it on video but that still doesn’t justify the price – especially considering the fact that he rehashed the content and it could be found for much much cheaper.

    SAVE YOUR MONEY!

    Frank Kern gives out the most common sense & general knowledge. His programs are nothing special.

    SAVE YOUR MONEY!

    Mike Filsaime – promotes the most sleaziest marketers and crappy products.

    SAVE YOUR MONEY!

    My advice? Stop buying this stuff. It will NOT make you rich at all. Go to a bookstore. They have everything you need. Read books, find really successful people and find a real goal & aim in life. That’s all you will ever need…

    These guys charge too much for very little and often times misrepresent their income claims. This stuff will just make you poor. I’m not kidding.

    And these guys know it! The prices are completely ridiculous.

    And they also put on a false scarcity scare – like if you don’t get this – the world will end forever. Please…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Pat's Fat Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, some blogger I know thinks she is “friends” with MF and whenever she joins one of his forums she instantly gets upgraded to a moderator. So then she gets all the customer service complaints that tech support can’t deal with and ends up feeling obliged into spending hours helping his customers while her own bsiness and family finances turn to shit.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Pat’s Fat,

    You know that is just really sad.

    I hope she really wakes up and realizes that this guy is using her as a slave. Mike Filsaime is also the most egotistical dipshit I have ever seen in my life.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Watergate Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    In the past I bought info products from Dan Kennedy, subscribed to his newsletter and went to his conference. I didn’t get any usable information even after putting thousands on my credit card.

    Then one day, I found one of his books at the airport bookstore. He crammed all his best ideas into it, and for less than $10 I got information that was actually useful.

    Moral of the story? All the BEST information is in their free or next to free info. That’s how they hook you in.

    Lets say you bought a $10 book by one of these gurus, and instead of buying their overpriced shit, use the $2000 you would have otherwise wasted on implementation. Adwords. Ousourcing. Hosting. Writers. Whatever.

    Even if you never made a profit, you would have gained something you could never have achieved by passively consuming their infoproducts. Real life experience of testing a market, learning from your mistakes, and becoming a better marketer.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Watergate,

    Info products should never ever be sold for more than $300 bucks.

    99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of info products are really only worth $1 – $100

    And like I said – Go to a good bookstore – sit your butt down on a chair and start reading for FREE.

    Don’t even have to buy it!

    I HATE seminars… These guys just hold seminars to inflate their egos & celebrate them having 100 people pay them $10,000 in one day —-

    That’s $1 million in a fucking day… When the “guru” really only deserves 10 X 100= $1000

    You can add in a some more for air fare, hotel, transportation & the extra time + effort to teach face to face to a group of people.

    LISTEN PEOPLE – These seminars are like a little kid’s birthday party to them where they have a bunch of presents gifted to them. It’s just to celebrate their perceived superiority.

    Do you ever see Steve Jobs have seminars? Fuck no… He doesn’t need to sell a info product on how to create another Apple computer company.

    Fuck that – he ain’t dropping corporate secrets.

    Also think about one more thing. The worlds biggest book stores & publishing companies that generate BILLIONS of dollars sell their books from $5 – $100 at the most….

    While these clowns try to pass off $2000 of information only worth $10 – $100 at the MOST.

    Please… Become smarter, think critically and learn to be more tight with your money.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Duff Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    Tony Schwartz’ book that Pagan summarized for $2000:
    http://www.amazon.com/Power-Full-Engagement-Managing-Performance/dp/0743226755

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • Liars, Liars, & Damn Liars said:

    Typical “syndicate” lies – Nearly 2 WEEKS AGO Ryan Deiss LIED and declared a hard deadline for his ridiculous “Perpetual Traffic” turd product.

    He said, quote:

    “Class starts on Monday and out of fairness I can’t
    let anyone come in late and disturb the flow.

    So this weekend will be your last chance.”

    Today . . . STILL BEING OFFERED via this link nearly 2 WEEKS later:

    http://www.perpetualtrafficformula.com/friend/

    Note to marketers with any integrity: NOW would be a good time to take a stand on your own blog (some have already done so, what are YOU waiting for?) by showing the people who follow you that you are trustworthy and don’t endorse this unethical behavior.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Bob Smith Reply:

    @Liars, Liars, & Damn Liars,

    Lol @ “Class starts on Monday and out of fairness I can’t
    let anyone come in late and disturb the flow.

    So this weekend will be your last chance.”

    LOL @ “out of fairness” more like “out of pure selfishness I’m gonna create artificial scarcity to emotionally trigger you into buying my product that you don’t want or need so I can get rich”

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • shoebox said:

    “Entrepreneur” what a hilarious title and guess what? Its all the douchebags who use it because they want to think about themselves as already being and having everything that they don’t and wont have or be.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • SomeGuy said:

    Well, I just found this site and I am just shocked. I am posting anonymously because I have a lot to lose if I revealed my identity here. Anyway, I feel like the IM industry is heading the wrong direction. I feel it deep down in my heart. I am not happy with some of the stuff I promoted in the past. I did it because otherwise they wouldn’t promote me and it was crucial for my product to be success. The fact is I have so much information about this industry that would put a lot of them behind bars. I have been to the affiliate parties and I know exactly what goes on there and how the deals are made. You should guys hear how they talk about their customers. It’s sickening. Most of them don’t DO any of the stuff they teach. Check this out, one guy who says is making millions blogging to his customers doesn’t even make $30k per year from it. All the screenshots on their sales letters are from selling their products not from doing the methods they are trying to sell you. I just had to say this. Peace out!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @SomeGuy ::

    Sink {morally} or Fail {financially} … that’s the hopeless choice that they’re forcing on the whole marketplace.

    [Reply]

    SomeGuy Reply:

    @SD, Agree

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @SomeGuy,

    Rat these people out. Snitch on them if you can without getting into trouble yourself.

    One thing I have learned in business is that people who are REALLY making the moolah and cash are KEEPING THEIR GODAMM MOUTH SHUT!!!!!

    That’s what I always seem to notice…

    The people who really make money online never sell make money online products & always keep a very low profile. (In most cases)

    I mean think about it – if you were banking $10 million a year with some business would you make a product explaining exactly how you did it so others can do it as well?

    FUCK NO!!!!!

    Do you think Apple Founder Steve Jobs would create a info product explaining how to duplicate his business?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +22

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @SD,

    That is indeed the choice – and trying to dance along the middle ground is a question of “how dirty is too dirty?” AKA “But Mom, can I just do it until I need glasses?”

    I suspect there are even members of this syndicate who would rather they’d never gotten involved. If not now, soon enough. ;-)

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @SomeGuy,

    Please tell more…

    We want to hear exactly what goes on in the affiliate parties. Give some transcripts of the conversation as well as the names of the “gurus” if you can.

    It’s time these scammers get exposed, arrested, have their assets seized by the government & prevent anymore people from losing their hard earned money.

    These dickwads should have their internet privilege revoked while they spend some time in the slammer with their new found butt buddy called Bubba!!!!!!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

  • Ed Dale rules said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -15

    [Reply]

    No he doesn't Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules, “the challenge” = moving the free line & list building. Who do you think the tubby turd promotes those syndicate affiliate offers to?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    Something… does… not… compute… Reply:

    @No he doesn’t,

    This morning I found out that Ed Dale is starting to upsell a scaminar even before the challenge is complete

    http://www.challenge.co/conference/

    “We have a reputation for charging a lot of money for our conferences (and we don’t apologise for it!) but for this series we really wanted to make this the most accessible event ever – so we are charging not 1000 quid, not 500 quid but a very reasonable £297!

    Plus If you sign up in the next 5 days – you’ll get a 6 month membership to Thirty Day Challenge Plus!”

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • FuckKern said:

    Wanna another conspiracy? hint: Ed Dale & his famous 30 day challenge

    what is it all about?
    http://30dcinc.com/

    download Information Memorandum to find out
    http://30dcinc.com/us.html

    I sincerely hope they all burn in fuking hell.

    if pdf somehow gets removed in the mean time I’ll upload it somewhere

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Bob Smith Reply:

    @FuckKern,

    download the info memo without opting in here:

    http://www.30dcinc.com/downloads/30DCIncIM.pdf

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Pat's Fat Reply:

    @Bob Smith, thanks for the link, I didnt want to opt in so havent read it yet

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • Ed Dale rules said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    OH PUH-LEASE Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules, Are they all liars? You did leave out some other possibilities: foolish, stupid, duped, non-discerning, in need of something just to fill blog space, etc.

    “Haters?” Seriously? That’s a childish, made up “P.C.” term used to SHUT PEOPLE UP and prevent valid criticism.

    By the way, here’s the REAL SCOOP on Ed Dale’s “supposed” and “free” 30 day challenge (newbie course):

    It’s a rudimentary “course” on how to do what everyone else is already doing to start an internet business. Is it free? Sure, it’s (cough) free. But it’s ABSOLUTELY STUFFED with his affiliate links, and all along the way, he tells you to BUY those products and services as part of his “free advice.” It’s all spoon fed, and money in his pocket. If he’s making money at every little point in the way (and you are SPENDING money), how unbiased is that advice going to be? Is he going to tell you about the FREE or CHEAPER alternative ways of accomplishing those same things? Hmmmm….

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Anthony Mahavick Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules,

    Your standard for what makes a blogger “trustworthy” is a lot lower than mine.

    Sincerely yours,

    TR

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Youu Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules,

    Ed Dale has carefully crafted his persona, and even involves his children in his videos and recordings to make him seem like an aw-shucks, trustworthy “nice guy”. I would call those bloggers fooled rather than foolish.

    Oh, and watch that video again, where Frank Kern talks about using the B team affiliates for social proof. Ed Dale’s affiliates, who you call the trustworthy bloggers are providing social proof, and you my friend, are falling for it.

    Peace!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

  • sweet cheeks said:

    Boy that Frank Kern sure does have striking good looks doesn’t he? Just love the hair styles he’s come up and the albino look he’s going for. He must be using a super sun screen at the beach, I mean he is supposed to be a surfer and beach bum and stuff…. and the sexy grimace on the right reminds me of James Ray’s facial expressions. Now people will see all the beautiful things he’s done “behind closed doors”. Hot!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Cirque de Jerk Reply:

    @sweet cheeks, as a homosexual who regularly participates in anonymous sex in public bathrooms. I tend to agree with your comments.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Troller Reply:

    @Cirque de Jerk, as a aging homosexual who often partakes in anonymous sex in public bathrooms, I am curious about what’s making Mr Kern’s eyes pop out of his head in the picture on the right.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Wobble Reply:

    @Troller, as an impotent homosexual who can no longer enjoy anonymous sex in public bathrooms, I think he is looking at his alter-ego’s boner.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Mind Boobies Reply:

    @Wobble, WRONG! Frank is watching Jason Moffatt tonguing his dick.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Maconga said:

    Perception is 9/10ths of truth. The sad part is that with many people the truth is what they believe. We need to stop shotting across the bow. It has become the American way.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • Ed Dale rules said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -20

    [Reply]

    FuckKern Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules,

    are you Ed Dale? If so then fuking explain your explanation of 30 DC business model in Information Memorandum on 30DCInc.com, and how you are abusing your subscribers research, and everyone other so naive to share information with you.
    FKING IDIOT GO TO HELL, YOU’RE LAME FRAUD. You think people wouldn’t figure all of you scumbags sooner or later?
    You bastards go so low, it’s not even funny

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Ed Dale 30DC Inc Reply:

    @FuckKern, if you have a spare 24 minutes and 17 seconds this will be the most exciting and lucrative business venture you’ll ever see on the internet. And here is why:

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Sydney Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules, what makes you think the video is a lie? I know you are upset to see your buddy incriminating himself on video but don’t blame the messenger. You sound like a whiny 13 year old.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Sadly Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules,

    How can a business supposedly based on giving away free “quality” training to 45,000 people be worth putting on the stock market? The 30 day challenge is FREE!! 30 day challenge plus membership site is $37.97 a month. If 2% of the 45,000 are members that is a yearly income of $410,076 (and that is a big if)

    Where is rest of the income coming from? If its from promoting syndicate affiliate offers then why the FUCK should anyone invest in this house of cards?

    Its time we took this fucker down!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Watergate Reply:

    @Sadly, more importantly why would anyone swap their profitable cash cow for Ed Dales magic beans http://www.eddale.co/general/30dc-inc-why-we-are-going-public-30dc

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Watergate, in essence – all the participants in 30 DC are crowdsourced to research markets and cash cows will be probably donated for peanuts to sir Edward. Imagine like dozens of thousands of people researching markets for you.

    btw. I remember one year, during a 30 DC launch mania, Dan Raine had a survey that went like “Send me 5 best niches you found, and have opportunity to win a MacBook & work on them with me”.
    heh.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    GIVE IT TO ME STRAIGHT Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Ed Dale rules ::

    “Ed Dale can close this blog down any time he wants to and then your defamatory lies and BS will not be able to spread anymore.”

    Can his Dad beat up my Dad too?

    Ed reads this blog. I haven’t heard denials … have you? The first step in a defamation action is saying … “Hey! That’s not true.” And it’s Frank who explained The Syndicate … not me … so I guess all the “closing downs” should be directed his way.

    ha!

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @SD,

    “Can his Dad beat up my Dad too?”

    hahahahahahaha I’m sorry but I couldn’t stop laughing… please continue! ahahahahhahaha

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Ken said:

    This is all funny. And the reality is that Kern ran out of money last year… Eben Pagen lives in a shit hole and really has about 7 employees and not hundreds like he tells people and the rest of them have to continuously con people because they could not run or build a business if their life depended on it.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Bob Smith Reply:

    @Ken, Lol, how do you know this?

    I believe you. I’ve always wondered why eben would even need so many employees for his business. He probably just calculated all the little outsourced jobs or something. He probably includes the 40 on call indians at a call center getting paid .50 cents an hour to handle customer service

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Pump and Dump Reply:

    @Ken,
    Unless something has changed, Eben rents an apartment near Venice Beach in Santa Monica, and has a second apartment in the same building for operating his “empire.”

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

  • WHAT'S THE REALITY HERE? said:

    If you’re an affiliate, and one of the 95% of OUTSIDERS that Kern says aren’t going to make any real money, how do you now feel after learning about this closed inner circle with him as its Godfather?

    How do you feel about Kern saying they are all just USING YOU to spread the word and provide (manufactured) “social proof” to get people to buy almost EXCLUSIVELY from the SYNDICATE MEMBERS instead of you?

    He’s admitting you are LOCKED OUT and are just being used. Your efforts are doomed because you can’t be a member of his private “syndicate.”

    This is really quite a revelation, and should be extremely upsetting to anyone who is, or ever has been an affiliate.

    Instead of being valued, you are screwed, from day one. How honorable is that?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    Sadly Reply:

    @WHAT’S THE REALITY HERE?, I thought the same thing when I watched the video. The downside to launching product after product when you have no new material to share, is that you end up having to reveal the very same tactics you use against your customers and affiliates.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    disappointed Reply:

    @WHAT’S THE REALITY HERE?, well this past Thursday has been a shocking revelation. I suspected that there was some kind of boys club, but I just didn’t know who. I’ve never affiliated for these boys, but just goes to show they will sell out their own child if the pay off is big enough. These guys really have no limit as to what they won’t do to get money.

    Money is a good thing, like electricity and food, it can enhance life, but it surely can’t -MAKE- your life.

    When you’re locked up in prison with Big Bubba eying your glutes and licking his lips, you can call up your Mercedes, or call that 60 inch TV, or call up your Kenneth Cole shoes for comfort. Maybe your Rolex watch can console you on visiting days.

    Salty D, I’m proud on you. Keep up the good work.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @WHAT’S THE REALITY HERE? ::

    Yep.

    And then … and fucking then … they tell you it’s YOUR fault. It didn’t work cause you didn’t work hard enough :: try hard enough :: want it hard enough …

    “The system works if you work the system” :: says the rabid wolf to the sheep.

    [Reply]

  • Greg said:

    I stopped buying from those guys a long time ago. Their product are overpriced and generally not so good for the money in my opinion. If I see you as a so called guru it is no sale with me. I am a fan of the true hard working small business and will never buy from those types.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    Youu Reply:

    @Greg, they admit that they give away the best info during the launch, so there is no point in buying their products for the rest of the padding.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

  • Jim said:

    Kern and company are a group of smart marketers. They have business interests in common, and therefor they cooperate. Unless they actively prevent competition–impossible on the internet–there is no crime. They sell a products with a high price, yes, but no one holds a gun to the buyer’s head, and normally a lot of free and valuable information is given first. If you like, you can criticize marketing as being the art of hitting peoples’s “hot buttons” and desires, but in that case, you need to criticize the entire country and its way of doing business. I think the idea that Kern and friends is a “criminal” syndicate is simply unjustified, and reflects more envy than insight.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Zack Reply:

    @Jim, That sounds like the rationalization those “gurus” might use when they are out shopping for their defense attorneys.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Jim ::

    “Unless they actively prevent competition–impossible on the internet–there is no crime.”

    … says “Jim” … some random dude on the Internet who hasn’t a fucking clue.

    [Reply]

    I know you... Reply:

    @Jim, a.k.a Ed Dale,

    If you want to disguise yourself and post on Salty Droid’s site, change your writing style so no-one knows its you, eh?

    Sent from my Awesome iPad

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    The Salty Droid blog get’s first page on google under “Frank Kern” keyword

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=frank+kern&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=eb25b226ce9fcffe

    Let’s get this blog ranked to number one on all scam guru SEO results!

    It’s time these fuckers lose their scamming “empire”. Every last one of them – Eben Pagan, Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, Perry Belcher, Ed Dale, Andy Jenkins, Ryan Deiss, Jeff Walker and every little stupid fuck with an internet connection.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    Don’t fuck with the Droid!!!

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Tom Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    I’m with you!

    If many (can’t ever get “everyone”)
    would simply post comments, Tweet
    and the like, this information would
    get out there…

    Just by putting a guru name
    and this link
    or a guru product name
    and this link
    imagine how many more “Sheep” would be informed!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • The dude said:

    Knowing Kern’s history treading on the wrong side of the law it’s not too surprising that he’s back across the line. It only was a matter of time before the allure of massive amounts of cash made him get back into his old ways.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Pepe said:

    Peeps, listen up.

    We need a stiff dose of reality.

    There is no way the FTC is going to jump in here and make things right. That is, unless WE make it a priority for them. The FTC has a lot on its hands and they don’t know crimes are being committed unless the world tells them.

    A few people above have great plans for getting the word out. Let’s use them! Whoever is next on the “crime wave calendar” we should make our target. Whether it’s “shit stain filsame” or the “bug eyed inbred doofus kern” or “mid life crisis jenkins” or “i want to be a cult leader pagan”. Doesn’t matter who so let’s start with one.

    They will probably try to change their act on this next launch anticipating our moves. shit stain and bug eye have already tried to do this by saying they are “retiring” from infoproducts (which is a LIE surprise surprise).

    If you’re a victim, complain in the manner outlined by the good peeps who posted above. Nuisance has a really good point by point plan.

    If you’re another online marketer, why are you going to sit on your ass while these guys run you out of the marketplace? They are smiling in your face and plotting your demise behind your back. THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED BY THE DROID. WAKE UP.

    Let’s call people out:

    Joel Comm! You claim to be against all the scamming in your latest blog post yet you are endorsing the biggest scammer of them all (shit stain) right on the same blog. You even recommend that blog post right under your self righteous rant. This makes you GUILTY by association despite your attempt. How can you call out people on launches when you endorse people who ROB people blind in the phone rooms? Calling you on it: HYPOCRITE! CO-CONSPIRATOR! (Kaching! Kaching! Whack! 5 years in federal pen for conspiring with a felon)

    Marcus Allen! You claim to be against the big name gurus but what are you really DOING about it besides whining on blogs and bulletin boards?

    Tony Robbins! WTF? I used to respect you until you associated yourself with criminals. The criminals themselves brag about how you “ran to them” crying for help. You really want to be associated with people who say that kind of thing about you? (Read Koenigs site where he says “Tony’s business was in trouble.”)

    If we don’t use this momentum now, ALL OF US, we will lose this fight and the bad guys will win.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Niki Reply:

    @Pepe,

    I found this very useful form on the ftc website:

    https://econsumer.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

    Salty, can you put this on a prominent page on your website?

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Maconga Reply:

    @Niki, There you go, now hit em. Hit em hard!

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Pepe,

    I also was shocked with why Tony Robbins associates with them. He even talked with Mike Filsaime & hung with him. Maybe he didn’t know.

    How to Alter The Feds

    https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ (FTC)

    http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm (The FCC also helps with illegal advertising)

    http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx (Internet Crime Complaint Center Runned by the FBI)

    https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx (Excessive BBB complaints gets the attention of FEDs)

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/ (These reports get very high SEO ranking)

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    Let’s first take down Frank Kern And Mike Filsaime.

    Anbody that files complaints against them.

    Say “Confirmed” along with what institution who have filed complaints with.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed ::

    … actually …

    1. Don’t file ripoffreports …. http://saltydroid.info/category/rip-off-report/

    2. Don’t “confirm” your actions here. Not a good strategy to give measurements of scale to badguys … let them guess.

    3. Frank and Mike “first” is also a bad plan. Government’s don’t like being used in vendettas. File a report about the person or thing on which you have knowledge or concern. And be professional … and brief.

    [Reply]

    Karin Hiebert Reply:

    @SD, Done- and Done.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -4

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Marc ::

    Are you about done shilling the ignorant party line? It doesn’t work here. Stupid fuck arguments like that are an object lesson on the whole problem.

    Cartel tactics have been outlawed for centuries … so has fraud … this has shit all to do with “new regulations”. If we allow cartels dominate … then capitalism ceases to exist. Old-school communism is just the ultimate win for cartels. One big cartel to rule them all.

    Is ignorance bliss? I’ve always wondered if that expression held truth.

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Marc ::

    That’s what you want to believe. But I’m the fucking cowboy … and you’re the conformist.

    You’ll be first in line for “skin bar codes” :: and I’ll be dead in the street.

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    Stoic Reply:

    @Marc,

    You are seriously ill-informed if you are unaware that the tech for tracking you into Wal-Mart is already in place.
    Get a grip and wake up. Revolting citizens are a democratic necessity–get on the right side of the fence.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    @Stoic,

    Yep, pretty much. I have come to the conclusion that I am uninformed in a variety of matters. Thanks.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

  • Mock Me Baby said:

    To get the FTC to move several things have to happen:

    1. A barrage of complaints. And when I say barrage I mean hundreds if not thousands.

    2. There needs to be enough complaints in a given DISTRICT to make that district deem it worthwhile to sue. In other words if there is one or two complaints for each state – well that ain’t going to cut it. There needs to be a concentration of complaints in a given area.

    3. The fact that you think people got ripped off is really irrelevant. People who PURCHASED the product must complain. Or people who feel that the marketing is misleading them – but this is weak and will only be used to back up the fact that consumers are being ripped off.

    4. Blogs like these DO catch the attention of regulators. They then immediately look for BBB and other complaints to start their investigation. No beef – no slaughter.

    The above is just my opinion but it’s an informed one.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @Marc,

    Easy dumb dumb. I’m not suggesting anyone organize. I’m making it clear that many complaints would have to be registered in a given district before the FTC moves. Now if CUSTOMERS from any given area decide to form a support group well then guess what dip shit? – THEY CAN and it’s LEGAL.

    Now before you stick your puss infected foot in your mouth again let’s be clear:

    I’m not complaining. I never bought anything from any of these guys. I’m also not on a mission.

    But also be clear that the Federal Trade Commission would be these guys worst nightmare (as Frank Kern already knows). In some ways they are worse than a criminal charge. How you ask?

    Well let me answer:

    1. They are a civil agency and therefore you do not have a RIGHT to legal representation. OUCH.

    2. They have many Court Opinions that give them the right to FREEZE ALL YOUR ASSETS BEFORE YOU EVEN GO TO COURT. And these injunctions and freezes specifically say you cannot spend any of your money on an attorney. OUCH.

    3. If you decide not to settle and sign a restrictive consent agreement with them and somehow get your neighbor to lend you the couple of hundred grand in attorneys fees you’ll need to put up even a plausible fight…. they will then get medieval on your ass. We’re talkin’ non stop motions, depositions, subpoenas that will harass every person that you’ve ever been involved with. If you continue then they will take all this newly found material and pass it on to the nearest US Attorney – making that US Attorney’s job so easy because they were able to get EVERYTHING on you in a CIVIL Court where the strict Criminal rules that protect the accused don’t apply. TRIPLE OUCH!

    I understand your anger because if I was thinking about any of the above three things as a possibility – well – I’d be upset too.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Marc,

    Mock Me Baby gave you nothing but facts…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @Marc,

    LOL – good one. I don’t need to rationalize – I’m not the one that’s got to worry about the possibility of having a pile of lawsuits served to my doorstep in big packing boxes by US Postal Inspectors.

    But sleep well – or try – you may want to use “BAH BAH BAH” That might work better for the sleep part.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby ::

    Your make some scary points in your “rationalization” … and I wholeheartedly concur. An FTC action is the absolute worst thing possible … especially if it comes right before a criminal action.

    Like if the FTC had moved on Ray 6 months before Arizona did … oh man was I praying for that … but God never writes me back.

    Kern already knows all about the horror of an FTC asset freeze. Ha!

    [Reply]

  • Bob Smith said:

    If you guy’s really want to get this rolling the best way would be to start organizing groups of customers, affiliates, and competitors to file a lawsuit. Money makes the world go around, let’s not wait for people’s inherit moralism to motivate them. Money talks.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    If the FCC gets involved these guys are also looking at wire fraud.

    I bet they will get involved.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    Not sure how or why the FCC would get involved.

    US Attorney – yes.

    Wire fraud, mail fraud, money laundering and conspiracy are the weapons of choice of every Federal Prosecutor. Wire Fraud and mail fraud are two predicate acts that could be used in a RICO case – however Judges look down on cases that are built on just those two predicate acts.

    In any case, it would be ugly if this went to a US Attorney. Their success rate is nearly perfect. The Feds are the REAL “Godfather” – they took over all the mob functions and rackets long ago and when they put a “hit” out it’s pretty much over.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby,

    The FCC is in charge of illegal advertising, obscene advertising, & fraud that happens with communication lines.

    It’s a possibility.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Bob Smith Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby,

    The syndicate has enough money now to buy off the feds. If you know the right people and have enough money it can be done.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Bob Smith Reply:

    @Bob Smith,

    The syndicate is very well connected to some of the most powerful people in the world, especially Eben Pagan and Frank Kern. There’s no way they are going down.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Tom Reply:

    @Bob Smith,
    C’mon, man…
    They may send a lot of email
    and make money online, but they
    are a LONG way from being anything
    like the Most Powerful People
    “in the world.”

    There isn’t one of these “gurus”
    that could not be CRUSHED by
    a) a focused campaign of individuals
    bringing “The Syndicate” and it’s
    price fixing and obvious abuse for
    all their customers to light.

    b) the Government agencies who can,
    at the mere decision of one individual
    wipe out the Profits (and, perhaps Liberty)
    of Any of these Most Powerful People in the World.

    With Social Media the way it is now…
    You could CRUSH any launch, simply by letting people
    know what the truth is.

    Oddly, these guys all taught us How to Do it!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Bob Smith, Yep. Kevin True-dough has proved more than once that the Feds can be bought. (Although he apparently is fighting the government’s more recent attempts to punish him: https://www.naturalcureshealthinstitute.com/ )

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    Not true Connie. Civil lawsuits ARE about money. The FTC sues you in civil court not criminal court.

    In addition they make defendants stipulate to certain restrictions. First they had Trudeau stipulate to no more informercials for products. He sidestepped that by selling a book on the informercial.

    He spit in their face.

    They then came back and sued him again.

    If he keeps spitting they will probably call their friends in other agencies.

    But no he didn’t “buy off” the Feds. The FTC did what the FTC does.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby, You’re right. I was probably stretching the point a bit. But still.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby, I’ve been thinking some more about Kevin True-dough, especially after Salty put that link up there to the latest Smoking Gun post on KT. While True-dough isn’t “buying off” the Feds in the sense that @Bob Smith and others are talking about, he is, in a manner of speaking, purchasing the right to keep on conning people when he pays fines and then continues with business as usual. Of course he’s not the only one who does that.

    Apparently KT has no intention of paying the current fines, though. And while these may be civil issues, he is being quite the drama queen on his begging-for-money page:

    “Yet…the federal government has declared me a criminal. As I see it, they want to take me off the air, burn my books and put me in jail for the rest of my life. This is heinous and criminal!

    “I believe the federal government is colluding with the big pharmaceutical companies to do everything they can to keep me from sharing inexpensive cures and alternatives to drugs and life-threatening surgeries. I’ve been declared ‘bad for profits’ and have to be ‘put away for life.’ I am the victim of government corruption at its worst…”

    I still find it interesting that despite his boasting about how wealthy he is, and despite his claims that he doesn’t really NEED any more money (he’s mainly in business to help people, you see), he is actively soliciting donations to his legal fund. Well, those lawyers *are* expensive, I suppose.

    This is from the Donor Disclosure Statement on the donation page:

    ==BEGIN==
    Use of Contributions: Approved Use of Funds. The Fund was established with the sole purpose of helping to ensure Mr. Trudeau and his affiliates’ financial access to legal services so that they may defend their rights in the identified litigation. All donations shall be deposited into a Fund account that will be managed by Natural Cures Health Institute, an Illinois nonprofit corporation, and disbursements from that account will be made as needed to pay for Mr. Trudeau and his affiliates’ legal fees and related expenses. Disbursements from the Fund will be made upon receipt of invoices either directly to legal counsel, or to reimburse a party that has already paid such invoices. The Fund may also be used to defray any tax liability incurred by Natural Cures Health Institute or by recipients of disbursements as a result of their receiving donations to the Fund or such disbursements.

    In addition the Fund may also be used for the purpose of maintaining and promoting Natural Cures Health Institute and the Fund to the general public, including payments for the purchase of books, newsletters, DVDs, and other items to be distributed to donors to the Fund in recognition of their donations, and payments for the purpose of holding events such as dinners to express appreciation for donors to the Fund. The Board of Directors of Natural Cures Health Institute and/or its designees shall approve all disbursements from the Fund in their sole discretion…

    …Use of Remaining Funds. Once Natural Cures Health Institute determines that there is no longer a need for the Fund, the remainder of the Fund, if any, shall be transferred to the Natural Cures Health Institute. Donations made to the Fund will not be returned to the donors.

    ==END==

    I also find it interesting that he is framing the issues around his rights (and of course the rights of his followers) under the U.S. Constitution — ignoring the fact that in a global market these factors don’t apply to everyone. Maybe he hopes that some of his international followers will ignore this little fact and will be inspired to donate, thinking that they’re fighting for their own freedoms too. Or maybe he doesn’t have a significant following outside of the U.S. so the point is moot.

    He’s definitely an all-American boy when it suits him. A newspaper article about his June 2008 wedding to Ukrainian beauty Natalie Babenko says:
    “Trudeau said he and Babenko met through a friend three years ago in California. They plan to hold a ‘big ceremony overseas,’ but don’t know exactly when or where. He said they got married yesterday because ‘we wanted to make it a U.S. marriage.’” http://salemnews.com/punews/local_story_179230104.html

    (By the way, comments for that article are closed.)

    All-American or not, he doesn’t seem averse to having offshore interests. For instance, his mega-scam, the Global Information Network (G.I.N.), has its legal headquarters in St. Kitts and Nevis.

    Talk about having your (wedding) cake and eating it too.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @Bob Smith,

    Politics, posturing, press releases and aggregation of agency power usually drives most of the Fed decisions to civilly sue or criminally prosecute. Money isn’t on that list – although large monetary judgments and large confiscations of property are often a nice side benefit they fit in nicely in the press releases.

    Are you saying they have some political currency they can wield?

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Bob Smith Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby,

    I’m saying they know people who know people who know people. Meaning they have the capability to take out a hit on, blackmail, or buy key decision makers in the federal government.

    There are many unscrupulous business people who actually own individual politicians and federal agents via blackmail and then sell favors to the highest bidder.

    It’s pretty simple. They lure them into having sex with preteen boys and/or girls and film it. Then you own them. It’s been done for centuries. See the movie conspiracy of silence for more info.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    felix Reply:

    @Bob Smith,

    Looks like Frank Kern has friends in high places:

    Dean Graziosi, Frank Kern, Bill Clinton, Joe Polish, 7-20-09

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    SD Reply:

    @felix ::

    Photo-ops in high places at least …

    Biff Reply:

    Which wax museum was that taken at? Frank and Joe look almost real there. Kind of silly though of Clinton wanting to pose with their likenesses, even just for a “gag” like that.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @Biff,

    Pay to go to a charity dinner for any politician or ex-politician and you too can have your picture taken with them.

    I’ve had friends who paid a few thousand dollars a plate and sat right next to the POTUS at dinner and had a photo op.

    The Kern picture wasn’t taken when Clinton was Pres. It was taken last year at a charity dinner for Clinton’s foundation.

    Not that hard and open to ANYONE with the money to buy a plate as long as they aren’t an Al Queda operative.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @felix,

    Just for the record – that photo op totally backfired on Kern. He posted it to his blog in an attempt to add credibility or bask in glory or whatever the fuck he was doing with his “character” and WHAM! – the comments from his mostly REPUBLICAN prospects came in droves.

    After responding with some nonsense about how it wasn’t political to donate to a politician’s foundation and getting nowhere he put on his thinking cap and …

    … being the creative genius Frank is – he made the post disappear and then posted another post saying he’s not sure why it disappeared off his server.

    Subtle.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    Biff Reply:

    @Bob Smith, Just to be clear, I was being super cynical. ;) I’m sure Clinton has given photo ops to lots of people he’s later regretted being in the same room with.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    Bob Smith Reply:

    @Bob Smith,

    You guys have to undesterstand that Frank Kern, Eben Pagan, and Joe Polish are master networkers and relationship builders. I think in one of Eben Pagan’s products Joe Polish mentions him and Eben having dinner with Bill Clinton.

    They also have a deep understanding of NLP and hypnotic language patterns and techniques to build rapport and cause people to become emotionally attached to them. It’s all part of the Pick Up Artist community. They use these tools to network and become friends with powerful people.

    So, even if anyone can get access to politicians, Eben Pagan, Frank Kern, and Joe Polish are masters at turning a brief interaction into a friendship and long term relationship. They actually strategicly plan(as a team) to target and manipulate certain people into being their friend. Because they know in busiess it’s all about who you know.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @Bob Smith,

    If any mind-fucking is going to occur with Clinton in the room I got my money on Clinton dropping his proverbial nut-sack in Pagan, Polish or Kern’s mouth – not the other way around.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

  • Markus Allen said:

    @Pepe,

    You mentioned my name and called me out.

    I’ve tried multiple times here at Salty’s blog to point to the IM syndicate. I was once a part of it. I gave up when Salty edited my posts.

    I was recruited by these guys (Yanik Silver specifically) more than 10 years ago and fled to the country… haven’t heard from them since.

    I was warned by Jonathan Mizel to “shut the fuck up” when I busted Stephen Pierce as a fraud. Ever since that phone call I’ve been blacklisted… not a single invitation to speak ever again.

    It would be my pleasure to tell you all of the behind-the-scenes dirt while I was “on board” the ride, but then I’m called a conspiracy theorist and kook. My offer still stands.

    I was the one who busted Stompernet as a fraud well before Salty jumped on the bandwagon. I even posted a link here. But to my surprise, your truth hero Salty erased the link to my video proof AND changed the link in my profile to some porn site. I was surprised at first because I thought Salty really wanted to expose these guys. But I soon realized that this blog is a gatekeeping operation. Nothing more and nothing less.

    I’ll try posting it here again… let’s see if it sticks:
    http://www.marketing-ideas.org/Stompernet-Exposed.php

    (By the way, Ken McCarthy said my video was crap… so much for him seeming like he’s on the side of truth.) Did I ever tell you that Ken helped start Netscape?

    When you go to my Stompernet video, I show a screenshot of my post getting deleted from this blog… so I am screaming at the top of my lungs about this, but some interesting people are trying to keep me quiet.

    Also, I do a teleconference every Thursday at high noon called Stump Markus… and I regularly call these psychopaths out… in fact I did so with Ryan Healy on my 8-12-2010 broadcast. I’ve been using my weekly teleconference to warn people about these perps for more than 2 years straight.

    So, I’m doing all that I can. But I have some very odd people (Salty, Ken McCarthy and Mike Young) who are trying their best to silence me. Odd don’t you think?

    By the way, did I ever tell you that Ken helped start Netscape?

    Why don’t you ask Salty why we’re not working together… comparing notes? Remember, I was recruited by the syndicate and ate dinner with most of these guys. Salty is only scratching the surface with what was regularly discussed. You might also ask Salty why instead he’s deleting and changing my posts here.

    I end with this quote by Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.” In simple speak, you get some anonymous guy (like Salty) to appear to bust some low level perps… we latch on to him like a new cult hero, then he spins us into la la land. That’s exactly what’s happening at this blog. You’re being distracted from the REAL criminals who are making off with your stolen $2,000.00 per home study course loot.

    By the way, did I ever tell you that Ken helped start Netscape? (Those who know McCarthy are LOLing by now.) Seriously, I ate dinner with Ken twice (he flew in to eat with us… us was always just 4 people… Yanik, Bill Harrison, Rob Olic and me)… and Ken LOVED to remind us how he helped start Netscape.

    With that said, in all fairness this particular Salty blog post was awesome. And the Alexa graphic was all anyone needs to see to understand the fraud.

    But it’s easy to predict how Salty is going to respond to me… either:

    - Delete my comment…
    - Ignore it (highly, highly unlikely)…
    - Name call me.

    One more thing. My IP has been banned from posting here (so much for Salty’s no-censorship policy)… so I easily got around the ban via proxy.

    Let’s see what happens.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Markus Allen ::

    Ever notice how when you stick to the point of your first hand knowledge of the world of Internet Marketing … I leave you alone? You are welcome to say whatever you want in that regard … and if you want to give me all the gory details that you have by email … I promise to read every word.

    This comment … and most of your other comments … start off in spam. Before I had time to check spam … which is about once an hour today … you’d already submitted it again with your accusations about a cover up {and the resubmission also went to spam}. That’s happened like 10 times now … are you seriously not capable of learning?

    Just stick to the fucking point Markus … and maybe people will hear some of the things you have to say.

    [Reply]

    Markus Allen Reply:

    @SD,

    Ah, no.

    You said the reason my posts didn’t show up was because of your old comment system. You no longer have that old system.

    But let’s put that aside…

    … One last question for you, “Salty”?

    Why did you change my Website URLs to various porn sites every time I posted last year? (Please don’t tell me you had nothing to do with that.)

    And no. I don’t do emails about this stuff. I always go public with what I know. I have nothing to fear. These are bullies at the top. And I don’t like bullies. I know what they fear and will use every barely legal scheme and tactic for the rest of my life to defend myself if they ever try to bully me again.

    And for everyone else reading this… every Thursday I take questions at high noon. No question is taboo. And Ryan Healy is one of my guest hosts every week (an obvious friend of “Salty”) so ask away. I’d be happy to answer any question asked of me. Just Google “Stump Markus”.

    One last thing. Filsaime is up next. In fact it started today… he’s partnering with Chris Farrell here:
    http://affiliatedotcom.com/free_content

    Okay, one more last thing… for all of you “tin foil” hatters out there (yes, I’ve been called that, too)… these guys use lots of secret codes to let otherd in the syndicate know they’re in on it. One way is to flash the ol’ classic “A Jason” hand gesture frequently in their videos. Do you see it? They all do it. Try forming an upside down pyramid with your fingers and hold it for more than 10 seconds… it’s hard. But these guys use this as code. Reese does it. Filsaime does it. Kern does it. It’s just like graffiti… hidden code amongst the gang.

    I could go on and on and on.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Markus Allen ::

    They weren’t porn sites guy … they were highlarious fake URL’s which I concocted with my comic genius. You were talking about how all the commenters were sock puppets … and there was no way people wouldn’t be leaving real name comments when the blog is do follow. Then you said you were just going to steal some link juice from me … leaving tons of comments linking back to your site. Then you started droning on-and-on about jesuits … the military … and Mel Gibson {or something} to the point of distraction. So I fucked with you until you went away … which is exactly what I’ll do again if go down a path that I think is ruining the conversation. Save those theories for some other venue … I’ve got enough problems.

    [Reply]

    Markus Allen Reply:

    @SD,

    So you admit to changing my website links to “fuck with me” “until I went away?”

    I see how it works.

    I’ll go away… you’ve got it.

    Mission accomplished.

    Good luck on your mission, “Salty.”

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Markus Allen ::

    Of course it was me you nut-job! How else would it have happened? Magic? Yanik’s mind powers?

    I guess this our teary goodbye then. Good luck on your “mission” :: “Markus.”

    SD Reply:

    @Markus Allen ::

    Oh shit it happened again! This time it wasn’t me … I’m serious … it wasn’t! You must have pissed off the Crocheting gods or something. So so spooky …

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @SD, those were some good times, when your links to the Mel Gibson Industrial Complex (dibs on that for the name of my next band…) were exposed for all to see, and you heartlessly made fun of the “madman” who did it.

    and @Markus Allen,

    Quit making stuff up. You aren’t that important. You were never that important. You were never invited to secret meetings at Yanik Silver’s trailer park to work out the secret hand signals for “mail my swipe copy.”

    You might believe that it happened, but it didn’t. Seek help.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    someone Reply:

    @Markus Allen, is that why Mike Young has a pyramid on his site?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Chin Scratcher Reply:

    @Markus Allen, The “tinfoil hat” badge you wear is of your own making, sad to say. After looking at all the comments on this blog, you’d have a really hard time making anyone believe that you’ve been censored – given that many more totally insane comments have stayed. I’ve been commenting here and observing since day 1. You need to get over this “Woe is me” or “personal persecution” stuff and reconsider how you are presenting yourself. Stick to a cohesive core message if you want people to take you seriously. Quit with the sidetracking. Try it. Be consistent. Then you’ll be heard.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Brad Reply:

    @Markus Allen,

    you’re hardly the -advocate- you’re trying to play in public. you’re a scum just like the other guys you’re mentioning, you just suck at marketing and haven’t done it on the same scale. you headed to the country because you were broke and the few people you could rip off for consulting couldn’t even cover your bills.

    brad

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Mike Young, Esq. Reply:

    @Markus Allen a.k.a. 2b1ask1,

    There is no conspiracy to silence you.

    Life is unfair. There is no right to an equal outcome or even an equal opportunity. If you doubt this, take a look at what happens to the average child born in Darfur and compare his fate to that of the average child born in the United States.

    You really need to let go of your bitterness about Yanik’s success. There isn’t a finite pie. You can get yours without having to take away from someone else.

    There is a lot of misconduct in the IM community. I’m not going to list the “good” and “bad” gurus here because it will start a flame war. In some instances, I simply can’t comment because of my profession.

    In the early years of practicing law in the Northeast, I came across ‘wise guys’ who were dabbling in the Internet. What never ceased to amaze me is how they would devote twice the amount of time and effort to earning a dishonest buck than needed to earn an honest one. It was the thrill of the con that got in the way of at least doubling their incomes earning money honestly.

    You see the same pattern with the “bad” IM gurus.

    But here’s the kicker…The same effort applied elsewhere would earn them at least as much money.

    Does that justify misconduct? Of course not. But their success online or offline are independent of your successes and failures.

    But what about the victims?

    Let’s say Idaho Spud Guru sells his “French Fry Mastery Riches Program” for $2K a pop. The product does nothing more than tell you to add upsells to your sales process…something your local fast food restaurant cashier can teach you by asking if you want to supersize your meal.

    Let’s also assume that there are no refunds given so the purchaser won’t get his money back…and might have even lost money trying to implement the program.

    Results.

    1. Spud Affiliate receives a $1K commission.
    2. Spud nets $700 or so after his expenses.
    3. Purchaser learns or is reminded upsells can be profitable and caveat emptor.

    Fair? No. But that’s not the point.

    Purchaser has a choice. He can learn from the experience and succeed or become bitter and wallow in being a victim.

    That’s purchaser’s choice. He chooses whether to push on or fold.

    If you want to be taken seriously by anyone, you will focus on doing what it takes for you to succeed. That includes abandoning the following behavior you have shown here and on Tony Blake’s forum.

    1. Whining about Yanik. He’s irrelevant to your success or lack of it.

    2. Talking about conspiracies involving 9/11, the Illuminati, Freemasons (2b1ask1), the Jesuits, etc. Even if every conspiracy existed (and they don’t), no one sits around trying to plot your failure.

    3. Swearing on your kid’s testicles that something is true. That just sounds perverted instead of giving you any credibility when you do it.

    Read Larry Winget’s book, “Shut up, Stop Whining, and Get a Life.” The only person you are competing against is yourself.

    ^

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Mike Young, Esq.,

    FYI there IS the such thing as the Illuminati. Napoleon Hill used to be a freemason and he admitted that the stuff taught at the higher levels dealt with the occult. Illuminati are associated with freemasons and they also deal with the occult.

    Believe what you want.

    The rest of your post I completely 100% agree with totally.

    I’ve also noticed some people tend to put on the “victim” mindset.

    I too have noticed the same effort applied to some honest business may even yield bigger results.

    Running scams exhausts the crap out of you. You always have to BS, look out for the Feds, & it just takes a lot more work.

    Unfortunately – not many cons are smart enough to realize that in the process of taking something for nothing – there is some WORK involved.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Skeptical Duck Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, Re: Illunminati, etc. Whether they exist or not (and if so, it is a fringe existence), I think that ranks right up there with UFOs in the minds of most people.

    In other words, when you throw that stuff in, you chase people away from your main argument, even if you have a good point. Don’t do it. It’s like talking about physics and bringing up astrology.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Skeptical Duck,

    You make a good point.

    lol

    Which why I mostly just let the sheep BE THE SHEEP….

    And I leave it at that…

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Mike Young, Esq. Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    The highest level in Freemasonry is the 3rd Degree (Master Mason). Thus, the phrase “giving someone the third degree.”

    Degrees numbered higher than 3 in appendant bodies (York Rite, Scottish Rite, etc.) are not higher than a Master Mason. However, to join these appendant bodies, one must become a Master Mason first.

    The Illuminati plays no part. That is a fact.

    Markus jumps the shark when he talks about such conspiracies. For example, I have college degrees from a public university, a Methodist University, and a Catholic University. Because of the last degree, Markus has accused me of being part of some Jesuit military cabal.

    It is this type of nonsense (like his 9/11 conspiracies) that discredits anything else Markus says in comments.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    @Mike Young, Esq.,

    If you doubt this, take a look at what happens to the average child born in Darfur and compare his fate to that of the average child born in the United States.

    Ya ya, I know you’re popular and probably a white hat and all but, this is the second time (that I recall) I’ve seen you use over the top comparisons to lead-in and make a point in your posts.

    They make me throw up in my mouth a little.

    It’s not just you ol’ chap. I get the same reaction or when I listen to Ryan Deiss, Frank Kern, Michael Bolton, Justin Beiber or Amy Winehouse (although in her case it’s a tribute).

    I also got that reaction once by drinking Mr. Beam and Tequila on an empty stomach … but I’ll save that story for a different thread.

    Mike, we share a affinity for Larry Winget books/ideas. I think “It’s Called Work For A Reason” should be part of every eleventh and twelfth grade curriculum.

    Sorry Salty. I can’t help it. I’m a dissenter through and through.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • evpstud said:

    I wish I had some solid proof on something that was said in that Ed Dale memorandum about the 30days business. It says they know what the profitable sub-markets are through their coaching – basically what they’re saying is that they’re using and abusing their students to find out which markets are good and then come in with stronger leverage to steal it from under them. Not only do they take massive wads of cash on hand, they plan to take massive wads of cash you’ll make by edging you out once the student has done the hard work.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

    simian drops Reply:

    @evpstud, what exactly was in the Ed Dale ipo memorandum? A few people have alluded to what you’re suggesting as well.

    If anyone else has information on how the 30 day challenge team are profiting from their students research post it here.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Mock Me Baby said:

    SD-

    After re-reading your post…

    Are you not worried about a libel per se suit?

    In this post you ARE essentially calling people criminals. While other posts may have some wiggle room – I don’t see it in this one.

    Am I missing something?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby ::

    Libel and slander law are subsumed inside of defamation law. That old common law “per se” thing only applies to whether or not reputational damages can be assumed … which they almost always can be anyway.

    But am I worried about defamation? No.

    1. Truth. There is a syndicate. Kern admits it … and recommends it to others. I know an assload about it … have all kinds of damning proofs.

    2. Opinion. As to whether or not The Syndicate is a crime … I can ONLY state my opinion. I think it most definitely is … a heinous one … but that’s not really for me to decide.

    3. Public Figures.

    4. Public Concern.

    5. And even if it weren’t true … I had more than adequate reason to believe that it was true … which is also a defense.

    [Reply]

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @SD,

    Thanks for laying that out. I appreciate it.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Karin Hiebert Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby, a really good read is Gerry Spence’s “How To Argue And Win Every Time” (one of my other favorite lawyers)

    Thumb up Thumb down -3

    [Reply]

    REALITY Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby, That would actually be music to Salty’s ears. He knows the lay of that land and would use that expertise to take this all up a few notches. In fact, it would give him even more ammunition.

    In SD’s own words:

    “Suing me will grant me access to the vast majority of your accounting records, emails, files, letters, etc. If you want the damning info I find in that discovery process to remain private, you’ll have to ask for a protective order and show good cause. You won’t be able to do that … and I’ll fill the world up with uncomfortable truths about you.”

    Anyone even remotely fantasizing about taking SD on should realize that he has an army of supporters (many in high places), and the fallout from a failed attempt could be lifetime devastating – and very, very costly.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • Dave said:

    @Dan Theis, so far as I know the law, the answer to your scenarios is that it is always a crime when collusion is involved. When the face you present to the public is different than the face you present in private.

    Bob knowing that Joe is launching a product at the same time isn’t a problem. The crime is when Bob and Joe agree in private to launch at different times now that they know each others launch schedule. It is the unnatural manipulation of the market that is the crime.

    Does this happen all the time? yes, but that doesn’t make it any less a crime. Just because the majority of people engage in illegal file sharing doesn’t make file sharing legal, it just means that the majority of people won’t ever be charged with a crime.

    If Bob and Joe don’t have staff or don’t mention to their small staff the reason for the change in launch date, it’s not like the feds are going to come a knocking. The Gov typically goes for the bigger cases, or the cases they feel they have a better chance of winning. Resources are limited and so they’ve got to make smart choices about who they go after.

    Now, if Bob and Joe mention each others upcoming launch date in passing and make no agreement as to altering their dates for cross promotion, etc and one or the other decides based on this new found info to change their dates then it is not a crime… since it is just as pluasible that they both independantly decide to move their dates back a week and wind up in the same original situation promoting their independant launches on the same weekend. Equally not a crime is if they know they are launching on the same day and they make a friendly wager based on who is able to get the most people to buy their product. Nothing wrong with competition.

    So is this syndicate a criminal organization, of course. Do they have an unfair monopoly on the internet marketing world, absolutely. Will they be punished, hopefully. Kern and Belcher have been busted in the past, so someone’s got an eye on them.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    @Dave,

    @Dan Theis, so far as I know the law, the answer to your scenarios is that it is always a crime when collusion is involved. When the face you present to the public is different than the face you present in private.

    Does selling List Control to the public and teaching those buyers how to form and run their own syndicates qualify as presenting a face in public?

    Did Frank Kern see the writing on the wall and “expose” himself first?

    Even if he did, I can see that it still doesn’t take away the fact that he implemented this technique (with secret calenders and back room meetings) long before teaching it publicly.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy, I don’t think it matters either way. What Kern did with this Syndicate is not just clearly anti-competitive by accident – preventing competition is the primary purpose.

    By the time Salty gets done (at least one more post is coming) I expect we’ll know a lot more about their anti-competitive tactics.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    @Unicorn Army, hear hear! I too hope Salty has more ammo. Or gets more from this excellent post. I do love a good thrashing of the Big Bad.

    And, how genius was it to use Kern’s product to frame Kern himself? Quite I’d say.

    However, in the end, even if Kern and company fall, a new breed waits in the wings.

    Cons and their men have danced to greedy tunes with the avaricious masses since the beginning of time. The seasons turn, the faces change … still the music plays on. – spoonfaceboy (circa. 2010)

    The truly great thing about this blog (no, it’s not the joking and barbershop bawdiness, which is great) is its Good Samaratin feel. It’s clear that with all its throbbing and pumping beats a heart branded “do unto others”.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy,

    Not only does a new breed of flea-ridden dogs wait in the wings, they probably won’t make the same mistakes that painted a big pink bulls-eye on this specific group.

    This “Syndicate” is not the first of its kind in Internet Marketing, and it’s not the only one. For all we know it was formed as a competitive response to some other cartel.

    It may be the most “successful,” but then again it may not be. A smart cartel would be able to go about its business without being so obvious, bragging about the revenues generated, etc.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    I’d love to kick mike filsaime’s ass. Just something about that guy which makes me want to give him the best ass beating of his life.

    Frank Kern looks like a huckster, con-artist and an alcoholic.

    Eben Pagan looks like the biggest pussy I’ve ever seen. I feel like I could actually come up to him, put my hand in his pocket, take out his wallet and walk away with him explaining the evolutionary & psychological reasoning and analysis for my crime.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

  • JB said:

    Pagan is a pussy…met him several years ago and I swear I broke his hand when I shook it. My 10-year old son has a better handshake than this A-hole.

    The best part was that I shared his limp grip with a guy who hated him (at same event) and he fucking crushed his hand…lol

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    The Salty Droid Blog gets a backlink from my website because of this ingenius post.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Frank Kern & Eben Pagan on Investigation by FBI & FTC: “Syndicate” Organization.

    I heard from reliable sources that someone very close to Frank Kern who works for him is cooperating with the FBI & the FTC to get more information on him so they can prosecute him for deceptive business practices and misleading income claims.

    Frank Kern as we know got into trouble with the FTC beforehand for his MLM business. So what the sources tell me don’t leave me much doubt. Kern is also a convicted felon.

    Authorities are also running in on Eben Pagan because they found out that he is connected to Frank Kern’s actions.

    Eben Pagan currently runs an secret organization called “The Syndicate”.

    Members of this organization include Mike Filsaime, Jeff Walker, Andy Jenkins, Frank Kern, Yanik Silver & other unknown members.

    The purpose of this organization is to destroy any competition regardless of the morality of the actions needed. They are out to ruin the business of any other internet marketer who they fail threatened by. They want to basically kill competition.

    Eben Pagan claims to be the first dating guru. This is FALSE. Ross Jeffries was the first dating and seduction guru ever. He started the WHOLE thing offline and online.

    Eben used to be a student of Ross Jeffries and Ross himself has also briefly talked to my sources about the unethical and immoral character of Mr. Pagan.

    Pagan basically stole the work of others and sold it as his own as stated by Jeffries. He used to live in a 1 bedroom apartment in La Jolla, California where he was a student of Jeffries.

    Jeffries has also openly stated that the seduction/dating community itself frowns upon Pagan because of the low quality of his materials.

    It’s true that Pagan has built a $20 million dollar a year business from dating but that business is a made up of stolen content. The ebook he sold was rehashed as clearly stated by Jeffries.

    As his ebook sales starting picking up and growing massively – Pagan also got greedy.

    He started selling DVDs, CDS & Interviews that were expensive plagiarized content. And the content of this “higher-end” material was also repetitive.

    Pagan’s real motive for the majority of these extra products were MONEY…Now some of the products lots of people have benefited from. Others not so much so.

    If you read the book called “The Game”, Neil Strauss describes and talks about Eben Pagan. Pagan basically screwed Mystery. His “Syndicate” organization first pretended to be his friend so they could do some damage to his business.

    Strauss, mentions these there are plenty of marketers who market to the seduction/dating community unethically and he also points out the dirty business behind it. A lot of PUA marketers are basically like drug dealers. A lot of them are out to get their competition in anyway possible.

    Pagan’s dating courses are basically over-priced, hyped & plagiarized. He also lied about how he got to where he is today. His business associations are also shady.

    Pagan’s business courses are excellent however those too have been ALL plagiarized, repetitive and over-priced.

    Pagan defiantly gives a lot of useful advice and he knows a lot but his motivations are deceitful. He as a person is deceitful and he’s not the character to what many people may think he is. His dating business has surely made a lot of money but his associations, business practices, product content and motivations are all deceitful.

    His sales figures maybe close to number 1 in the dating niche but his QUALITY, COMPETENCE & SKILL level are very low compared to his competitors.

    He’s not the great business leader he portrays himself to be. His sales figures may get other people to think otherwise, but if you look at the picture behind the sales figures, he’s not very authentic in terms of his actions, behavior and motivation. Some of his customers maybe happy but even a “half-shaddy” business can have some happy customers.

    In fact, he himself can NOT get women. Strauss points this out. He talks about how Pagan is a horrible authentic PUA but a very good marketer who can sell PUA content like a crack dealer.

    In other words he is really just a huckster and VERY VERY VERY few people can see through him because he is excellent at speaking, talking, manipulating and selling. You can certainly learn from this aspect of Pagan but otherwise people really need to be informed of WHO this guy really is and his REAL character. This guy even fooled me and I thought of him in very high regards before.

    If you read “The Game”, they throughly discuss him for what he really is.

    Now, we turn to Mike Filsaime. (Eben Pagan’s close friend) The guy has been involved in force continuity, rehash products, horrible support, SPAM, failure to honor unsubscribe links, and he only made his money being selling products which teach others to make money. Also fails to refund other people’s money and blames the customer for not “taking action”. He was a used car salesman who used deceptive MRSP on the cars he sold. He also promotes low quality products most of the time to his email list. He also did a business launch of his “marketers cruise” with a child sex offender and Donna Fox who ran a scam company. Avoid him.

    Frank Kern (Another Friend of Eben Pagan) was involved in MLM. MLM is always a dishonest business. None of it is honest. He was shut down by the FTC for his MLM business. He is also a convicted felon. And FBI & FTC are getting in on him right now. They want to take him down because of his false income claims and deceptive business practices. A person that works for him has already stated and verified that he is not very morally sound. The FBI is gathering more information on him to have a warrant for his arrest.

    Yanik Silver (Another Friend of Eben Pagan) – Copy writes MLM sales letters. (Eben Pagan also helped write MLM sales letters.) He is also very vicious and cruel towards competition. Yanik Silver also really only made his money from selling products to others on how to make money. His associations are also shady. (Same with Jeff Walker. )

    And by the way, pretty much all these “gurus” also promoted a $2,000 CPA course which made claims of earning $100,000 a day. The earning figures were real but the way that income was made however was very unethical and ill-gotten. It was cracked down by the FTC, Google, Credit Card Companies and Merchant Accounts were shut down. All of it was on the news.

    My Personal Advice?

    Do not make friends with these people. Do not associate with them and do not do business with them. They ARE out to get you and your business. If you are having major success in online business their organization is out to get you. That’s the whole point in their “Syndicate” crew. They want to control the market, destroy competition through any means, and keep any competitors out. They are a evil mastermind group.

    Always remember: “You are who you hang out with”. Any guru who associates with these shady characters, be careful from them because they might not really be the great heroic business leader (as portrayed) who will always welcome new business owners who are just beginning to have some big success.

    They are out to kill you… Period! And if you have so happen to be interested in getting into the dating niche – be very careful because that market has a lot of competition and the “Syndicate” organizational will be very jealous of you if they feel you to be any kind of threat.

    I suspect Eben’s business is hitting the peak of his boom and I predict he fears it will fall. There are plenty of competitors who offer 1000X better value, quality, honesty and originality than Double Your Dating. It will certainly take time for DYD to fall but eventually in my opinion, it will prevail to fall.

    Yes it IS true that Debbie DeassWhole made $20 million a year. I know this is for a fact. But his business is “half shaddy” as I said from before. (Out of date content, over-charging, repetitive, plagiarism & no success of his own)

    He is very successful in making millions. I have data to verify this. But he is not the nice, generous and moral person people may think he maybe.

    He started teaching marketing & business courses because I suspect that his business has peaked and it’s about to fall. (He is a good teacher in marketing & business)

    He has a lot of competitors who run a much more legitimate and ethical dating business. They only leg up he has over his competitors is his ability to market, convince, sell and persuade people. But when it comes to the SUBSTANCE he falls short compared to competitors.

    Once his marketing become more versed in marketing – I suspect he will go out of business because that’s exactly what’s I suspect is slowly happening right now.

    Also he sells his customers excessively on dating material. He divides up the material too much in separate courses and charges exuberant prices for them. And courses end up repeating his other courses or resemble them to closely. He also falls short on many other dating concepts & techniques in his teaching.

    As I’ve said before, he is a professional marketer but a horrible PUA compared to competitors.

    He is NOT really someone with 100% substance when it comes to teaching dating advice. His stuff did give some people success though and some of it is good. But with prices he charges and quality compared to competitors – he is not being 100% fair with his customers.

    Also his dating advice business for women – have SO many complaints for women about having unauthorized excessive charges on their credit cards. His company also fails sometimes to send people their products but still charge people.

    Some people said they refunded them. But I think they only reason they refunded them is because are running a scheme were they pretend that it was mistake. When it was actually done intentionally so they can make money from people who don’t pay attention to their credit card bills.

    His websites have major joint venture deals with AskMen.com, Harmony.com, PlentyofFish.com and other big time websites.

    These websites receive a shit load of traffic. You can also check his alexa rank. I know for a fact that he makes what he earns….

    However he is too money-motivated. His actions speak louder than his words. He does not want others to succeed. His dating competitors are his biggest enemies and he is trying everything to knock them out even it compromises morality and ethics. He messed with Mystery’s business…

    I remember him once saying in a room “You hire someone and then 6 months later they go compete with you.”

    Also the guy used to be a struggling money-hungry real estate agent. Realtors as we know are mostly scums.

    Some are really honest and do what is best. Be a lot of realtors are scums. He was also a mortgage broker. lol We know that most mortgage brokers are the scum of the universe.

    By the way, him being a realtor & mortgage broker back in the days seems like a conflict of interest, don’t you think?

    He held a seminar once for women on dating a few years back in LA. A actor named “Christian Carter” hosted it. And half the women left after the first day of the seminar. And by the last day almost everyone was gone. lol
    There were also women who were outright laughing at him. lol

    Plenty of women have also commented that his material is very ineffective.

    Eben basically cares too much about making money. I feel like he’s a smart guy in marketing, business & life but seems to have a dark side which is why I warn people about him. His business friends are also scums.

    I just want to make it clear that I am NOT jealous from him. In fact, I remember being happy for him until I found out the truth about him. And by the way – I am his competitor. I found out a little dirty secret in the dating market. Basically, your competitors are your most worst enemies usually. Competitors never ever do joint ventures. (Very rarely)

    Eben once said in a interview with Yanik Silver that it’s okay to be partners with your competitors. lol He said that so he can have his dating competitors approach him and so he can damage their business just like he did to Mystery.

    Same with Yanik. He wants competitors to approach him, so he can learn about their business to see how he can damage them.

    It’s like the business morality, ethics and policies of the narcotics industry. The gurus are basically ruthless with newbies, competitors and anyone seen as threat to their millions of dollars of income.

    It may seems like i maybe exaggerating. But I am not. Online business is getting VERY crowded. And it’s getting harder to make money year by year.

    The growth rate is huge on the internet. It’s exploding. And gurus are starting to realize that their business have begun to peak and more competition is coming day by day, month by month and year by year.

    If they don’t do something, they realize that their business may go dry and close.

    You can certainly still make money in online business. But the majority of this “gurus” wouldn’t last in the real world. Basically, most of them, got a lucky streak. The guys who can make out in the real world are starting to come into the internet and these guys are a huge threat to these online pussies who won’t survive a second in the real world of business.

    These guys are basically GIMMICKS. They mistake their luck that came from the internet as their own talent, skills and worth. When actually it was the internet that really made them. People who are a lot more smarter and skilled are getting onto the internet.

    Even Eben himself said “I was smart enough to know I was getting lucky”

    It is also important to note that what these guys sell online – if they sold offline or face to face – they would be shut down very quickly. The internet allows them to hide like pussies.

    Lastly, these guys stole marketing knowledge and wisdom passed off as their own from business legends who made most of their fortune offline in real legitimate businesses who would be shutdown immediately if they sold what these hucksters are able to sell online and get away with.

    “As I get older I pay less attention to what men say, I just watch what they do.”

    -Andrew Carnegie, 2nd richest man in the world to ever live… Always remember this quote when dealing with these hucksters. Carnegie was a genius man.

    You see these guys only have expertise in MARKETING – which why I was said Eben is a great marketer but a horrible man of substance.

    The majority of these Gurus didn’t have a lot of money when they first got online – which means they could NOT hire copywriters and marketers to work for them.

    The big companies of the old days always hired copywriters and marketers. The owners NEVER or hardly ever did the copywriting or marketing. They let others handle it – even though they were good at it.

    Why?

    Because they focused on the substance!

    Marketers focus on sizzle and “talk”… They are just that… “talk”
    Business owners need to focus on substance to customers. These guys didn’t have substance and/or didn’t have money to hire marketers.

    So they become marketers and what happened? Most of them are just marketers not really business owners. They just “talk” and fail to provide much substance.

    You can’t be two things at once.

    Some of these “gurus” actually admitted to a few select business associates that they are just a launch away from being homeless and on welfare.

    Mainstream (offline) is more connected to Mike Filsaime and Yanik Silver, You are defiantly right about that.
    I remember Filsaime was on the news as a “marketing expert”. Yanik Silver has also been featured several times on the news.

    These guys have connections with mainstream companies like Godaddy, Zappos and some pretty big names but what people do not realize is that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are honest and legit.

    Sounds ironic?

    You see these guys don’t take on clients of these big names. Instead they just ASSOCIATE with them to gain power. They are basically trying to be business colleagues of the mainstream.

    They obviously can’t take them as customers or clients because they have no substance.

    Also one more thing…

    I’m beginning to notice a PATTERN… These guys always seem to be doing lots and lots of business launches every week or month lately…

    Ever since the past 2 years something has been going on… They’ve been doing all these product launches more and more instead of just selling the products they’ve already created.

    And at the end of their product launches they also mention how this will shutoff forever and never be sold again. They use the urgency tactic because I believe they are needy for money and they need the money NOW…
    The can’t wait for the money…

    And the prices of these launches are ridiculous. Completely obnoxious prices. It’s usually NOTHING under $2,000 for some written garbage and videos on a clipboard – that is MOST likely outsourced and/or rehashed.
    Heck, anybody can go into a Barnes & Noble – hit the marketing/business section – sit down on a table in the Starbucks cafe with their frappe and start rehashing away on the content find in books in B&N on their Mac.
    In fact, the stuff they teach can easily be found in Barnes & Noble by spending no more than $75 bucks on some good books. Heck – you don’t even have to buy the books, just find a chair in B&N and read the books for free.
    These idiots always talk about “information products” – What they don’t realize is that if you make extremely wild claims on information – people aren’t just expecting information but rather they are expecting RESULTS…

    That’s why you never hear – “Barnes & Noble is a scam” Why? Because they or most of the authors don’t make outrageous claims of “something happening” if you buy this.

    And I think the FTC is soon going to be cracking down on this. eBooks have already gotten a undeserved bad name because of these make money online fucktards who basically write useless garbage and then sell claims coming from having/reading the eBook.

    There obviously is going to be some regulation from the FTC pretty soon or sometime. I’m not saying information products will be banned – I’m saying that the FTC may soon start placing some rules which prevents the abuse of selling garbage information along with making claims that are highly unlikely from the result of buying/having/reading/knowing the information.

    Especially if these products launches keep happening.

    Eben Pagan/David Deangelo has made plenty of claims on his sales letters at DoubleYourDating.com for his ebook which were NEVER delivered. Lots of his customers have talked about this.

    Internet is also becoming more mainstream. There is now talks of censorship, filtering garbage and controlling fraudulent activity. In the near future, there will ACTION taken but for it’s all just talk.

    The future of online business is about 100% authentic competence, quality, honesty and legitimacy. It’s getting more and more regulated as time goes on. These gurus will not last within 5-10 years tops.

    Most will be sued, arrested, fined and/or bankrupt. These idiots also don’t realize that internet is no longer becoming a good media for “secrecy”.

    WHO you are online is now becoming more of WHO you are in the real world. In other words, their are now more and more consequences with what you do online than before.

    Let me ask you a question – If Frank Kern or some other guru was fined by the FTC and their business was bankrupted… And let’s he needed to get a job… Do you think they would be able to hide what type of business they ran online? (Maybe if they had a pen name) which most don’t.

    It amazes me because I always wondered what if the kids, family, relatives and friends of these people were to google their names and read comments about them. I wonder if they’ve seen the websites they own and the products they sell.

    You see the online world has allowed people to do this more easily in secrecy of society, the government and loved ones. But that’s changing very quickly. Employers now google you, governments now read emails, Friends google you at times, Potential JV’s google you…

    The internet is basically a MEDIA… It’s no longer just something used to rip off others.

    What does this mean? Scams will become less common in the future as the Internet as a Media becomes more common & regulated.

    There will always be scammers no matter what but it will be far less common. And the internet will in my opinion have the least scams – because it’s not just a another virtual reality anymore – it is also just like another news media.

    These guys simply call themselves “Internet Marketers” – and that’s what I’ve been saying before – they are just marketers who have no business creating products because they are MARKETERS…

    They can only sell substance and if they can’t create substance, they shouldn’t be running a business like they claim too.

    Now days everybody says that they are a “marketer”… That’s what everybody claims they are…

    These people will not last in the future. Only BUSINESSES will last in the future. Businesses create substance. Marketers ONLY SELL substance.

    And right now – there is too many marketers… and too few BUSINESSES…

    Which means you have over supply of marketers and very few supply of businesses. People demand BUSINESSES more than marketers…

    Watch the crash happen just like it happened with the stock market and real estate business where you had too many self-proclaimed investors…

    Today you have too many self-proclaimed marketers with no merit or legitimacy just like the guys mentioned in this blog.

    If you want to succeed provide value. These gurus always say the same with what I’m telling you but they don’t follow in their own advice.

    Next time they send you another one of their $10,000 product launches… Ask them this… ” If it’s so great, why are you spending so much time & effort selling me on it?”

    Here’s their motive: Money
Here’s your motive: Money

    The two of you can never go along together. That’s why money making schemes are almost always a rip-off to consumers. Not all of them. But almost always all of them.

    Nobody can make you money except YOU.

    If you look at the JV deal he has made with websites you will realize that he gets A LOT of traffic without a doubt. AskMen.com, Harmony.com, PlentyofFish.com for example get A LOT of traffic.

    Alexa ranks are impressive (though not always accurate). You can also use tools like quantcast.com & compete.com to see some of his site metrics, traffic estimations, keywords, backlinks, SEO ranking and other sensitive data that you otherwise can’t find.

    I checked out his website data and it is VERY well possible he has made sales figures of what claims. (gross sales figures)

    He is successful in marketing. But I’ll say it again – he is horrible at delivering value.

    Some of his stuff has value. Defiantly. But he takes more than he gives and I believe greed has overtaken his purpose.

    I would safely say that his profit is $5,000,000 a year from his men’s dating business after all expenses and taxes.

    He EVEN rips off his affiliates. Affiliates only get credited for a sale if & only if a customer buys right then and there on the site. If they exit the site and then they buy. No credit!

    It’s also important to know very few are interested in becoming affiliates in this niche. Most want to create their own stuff & have others promote.

    So saturation & over-supply is a problem as well as competition. This is the problems I believe Eben is having with his business. Others are beginning to slowly reach up to him and eventually are going to over-take him. And that’s not a impossibility. So many others have way more credibility, better value, techniques and programs.
    Why else would he start offering business information products?

    The guy is looking for security. Think about it – if you made millions of dollars off a website – would you be naive enough to reveal it to a mass audience as well as give them business and marketing education that helped you built it?

    Mostly likely not. Unless the site is already seeing some revenue fall or serious competition threatening the business.

    “Gurus” have been known and guilty for revealing something right after it’s peaked and just ready to fall right in it’s face. Michel Fortin endorsed this guy named Armand Morin who he considered very honest, ethical and yadda yadda yadda…

    But I checked his past and he too was guilty of selling this blackhat adsense method he sold in a seminar that had just been obsolete and it was impossible for anyone to make any money with it! Seminar attendees were pissed nonetheless. The guy earns $25 million dollars a year from his software business. The point I’m making is just because someone makes a lot of money in a seemingly legit business doesn’t mean they don’t have devious intents and/or aren’t capable of taking your wallet for a ride. It happens. People have dark sides that they keep tucked away behind the scenes were nobody can witness it.

    I had respect for Eben but I’ve finally seen the other hidden picture he hides away.

    Just because someone maybe successful in business, doesn’t mean they won’t resort to uncivil & immoral behavior to keep others out. People get entitled to financial & business success. As perfect as Eben may want you to think he is… He is not.

    It is true that successful people take credit for other people’s work. But the majority of the time, it is through permission, negotiation and agreement. Not outright plagiarism. Everybody learn from others and then pass it on to others.

    I’ve read Law of Success by Napoleon Hill and it speaks of the concept of knowledge being used by other people and being stored in the ether and received by other people through telepathy.

    But I believe everyone should to take knowledge that they’ve learned from elsewhere but they also need to ADD on to it by new discoveries, unique methods of experimentation, experiences and skills.

    Without doing so, they are just TAKING and not really giving back. Give and take basically.

    Eben basically was a parasite. And he still is. To his competitors, customers, & affiliates.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Mike Young, Esq. Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    If you were truly an insider, you would know that most of what you wrote has no basis in fact.

    For example, an FTC consent order that admits no criminal liability is not a felony conviction. Accusing someone falsely of being a convicted felon is just plain ridiculous — particularly when you’ve been called on this issue before.

    If you want to say Frank Kern a bad guy or complain about his business practices, that’s one thing. Repeatedly lying about a felony conviction puts you in a worse light than him. You know better but continue to do it.

    You’re also obviously a Ross Jeffries’s fan. Fine. But that doesn’t mean turning Pagan into the anti-Christ because of it. I’ve met Pagan and know more about him than you ever will. My opinion of Pagan isn’t favorable. But that doesn’t justify making stuff up to hurt him.

    Final thought. Despite your claim, Jeffries was not the original PUA. He was one of several offline gurus. If you want an entertaining read, look at the fight between Jeffries and dating guru R. Don Steele before Pagan was old enough to date anyone.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Mike Young, Esq.,

    Can you explain your hypocrisy here?

    http://www.warriorforumsucks.com/2010/04/warrior-forum-stompernet-jenkins-fallon.html

    It could be BS but give an explanation.

    Not judging you, you maybe a good guy but there’s some stuff out there about you.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Martin Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, Whose side are you really on? At this point, I’m not really sure.

    Mike Young routinely RAILS against unethical marketing and talks about its consequences.

    Mike has simply pointed out some ongoing factual errors on your part, and you are attempting to smear him with innuedo? The facts are the facts, no matter what.

    As for the silly Marcus Allen video that you referred to, what was the point? If you choose to believe it, then you would also have to believe this: in doing what was mentioned, Mike Young would have proved he is one of the GOOD guys by actually exposing that stuff in the first place. Had anyone else done so prior to that point? No.

    As SD has mentioned, Mike Young is a friend of this blog, and as far as I’m concerned, a friend of all ethical marketers.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Martin,

    I asked for a explanation and I said it could BS.

    Learn to stop jumping to conclusions. I sure didn’t…

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Mike Young, Esq. Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    Hypocrisy? Hardly.

    Brad Fallon did something sleazy that required a response.

    I ordered a copy of the lawsuit complaint and posted it online.

    When Markus asked about the related post on Tony Blake’s forum, I correctly noted that the link was modified by me as a moderator. However, I did not deny being the person who leaked the complaint (a public record BTW). I simply didn’t admit it at the time.

    Markus decided this was part of a conspiracy. To prove this, he decided to “out” me as the poster and dragged my wife into his exposé. Real classy move on his part.

    The complaint was posted online the day I received it in the mail from the court. Had nothing to do with any conspiracy (neither Brad nor Andy saw it coming) and everything to do with sending Brad a message not to mess with me.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Mike Young, Esq. ::

    … I forgot your wife was in that vid.

    Markus is like if Encyclopedia Brown got serious brain damage in a car accident … then got depressed about it and started huffing paint and eating catnip … now he just wanders around town “investigating” things and “solving” people’s problems. Cats and old ladies beware.

    [Reply]

    NYC Girl Reply:

    @SD,

    Re: Encyclopedia Brown – I lol’ed.

    Why can’t we “thumbs up” your posts too?

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Mike Young, Esq.,

    Ok thanks!

    That cleared things up…. ;)

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Keren r Reply:

    @Mike Young, Esq., But what you neglected to mention is that Eben Pagan has almost no net profit. He might SELL millions but spends that much to make it. And yes that is a fact right from his own team member. He is full of shit. Tells people he has hundreds of employees which is bull. He has a handful. Does not even have an office. He just repackages shit from books and tries tommake himself out like he is god whent the reality is that he is just a simple little insecure punk. Face it the guy can’t build a real business if his life depended on it but he gois around trying to tell people how to build a business. Don’t believe me? Show me one thing that privies he has a real business. He still has to drive every week to a CPA to sign checks. Good use of time huh? Just goes to show he does not do anything he preaches. Or at least what he learns from a book and preaches.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Mudbone Reply:

    @Keren r, Mike Young didn’t “neglect to mention” anything. That wasn’t the focus of his comments. Nor was he defending anyone, and certainly not Pagan. He mentioned his opinion of Pagan was not favorable.

    Mike was simply pointing out some innaccuracies in what was previously said. Don’t attempt to attach him to your separate, and different, followup comments. It just weakens what you say, even though you have a point there.

    But it is worth noting that these guys brag about big numbers which almost invariably means “gross” whereas their net is likely to be a fraction of that.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Garrett Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    Martin Reply:

    @Garrett, /I mean SyndicateExposed/: (and I note you borrowed another commenter’s name for your self-congrat): We get it. You really, really don’t like these guys. Neither do a lot of people. But cool your heels a bit with the rage. It gets in the way of clear thinking.

    Read Mike Young’s last comment a few times and let it sink in.

    There are plenty of reasons why this little mafia-named syndicate and it’s cartel gang may very well implode by its own doing. Greed and arrogance have a way of backfiring in pretty big ways.

    The shit, as they say, has only just begun to hit the fan. Now keep an eye on the exits. I’m sure Salty will be sharing a lot more in the days ahead.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    That’s a long post.

    1. What was Frank Kern convicted of? I didn’t know he had a criminal record.

    2. If you truly are in the dating niche then you are in what Kern calls the “B” group. Why? You wrote: “I found out a little dirty secret in the dating market. Basically, your competitors are your most worst enemies usually. Competitors never ever do joint ventures. (Very rarely)” This was true in the past but it seems that the niche bought Frank Kern’s new program which advises on creating a “syndicate” and guess what? – They did and have been promoting each others stuff ever since.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby,

    Questions to

    1. That was a mistake on my part. hahaha big deal

    2. I AM in the dating niche. But just because your in a niche doesn’t mean you have all the secrets. I am not up there yet. I don’t ever plan to be in a Syndicate. I guess the PUA niche is going to start screwing men to buy stuff they don’t need.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Chuck Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, I can’t stand Kern, his acting, or his private syndicate. But you lose all credibility when you blow off your big factually incorrect rant with something like…

    “hahaha big deal.”

    You DON’T need to make up stuff. There is plenty of REAL dirt right in front of your eyes. You could trip over it. Stick with that.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Chuck,

    ok ok… I got it!

    I didn’t try making stuff up… Just a mistake.

    I got the message.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Who Cares Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    Yikes. I don’t think you wrote enough.

    Lots of rambling. Lots of bs. Not ALL MLM’s are scams. Not ALL realtors are scum. Not ALL mortgage brokers are scum.

    And you talk about PUA’s like they are great. Rrrright. A good majority of the PU community is a joke. Say what you want about Eben, but he is more in line with reality than Mystery and all of those other PUA clowns. At least he talks about inner game instead of “negging”.

    Don’t even get me started on the PUA’s. We need a Salty Droid for that community as well.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Harry Potter Reply:

    @Who Cares, no we don’t because the whole PUA community is filled with pathetic losers from the top down. If you have to use mind games to get a woman in bed then you’re a pathetic loser just like those guys that slip drugs in a woman’s drink. One is illegal, but both are equally pathetic.

    PUA community seeks out loser guys with no self-esteem, but with enough credit to charge up their courses. If these guys are so good at being with women, where are their wives and girlfriends? How come you never see anyone of them have a healthy and happy relationship? Anyone can hire a hooker escort to pretend to be with them for the week or two.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • Question... said:

    Okay. So you slam every IM person pretty much. I can’t remember reading your website and seeing a single one you have ever given any real credit to.

    So tell me SD, who do you actually respect?

    Will you respect them when you wake up tomorrow?

    Thank you for saving me from the evil and tryanny of these evil men but in the end, who do you suggest?

    Are you willing to put your neck on the line? Not reject the person and bash them with some abrasive tone later? Please. I’d like to hear a response..

    Just a question..

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Uncle Ralph Reply:

    @Question said: “So you slam every IM person pretty much.”

    How could that be? There are what, a few dozen people here and TENS OF THOUSANDS of people marketing online?

    Seems like the FEW who have made it here DESERVE to be here.

    Here’s SDs mission statement that appears next to his Google listing:

    “The Salty Droid puts the smack down on: Scammers :: Spammers :: D-Bags :: Frauds :: And other doers of no good”

    This isn’t the place for recommendations.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    @Uncle Ralph, @Question…

    Yeah well you might see my name lumped in and slandered on the blog with the rest of them pretty soon. I’m not sure yet.

    And I don’t sell a damned thing. I disagreed with something he said, and he threatens to paint me in a bad light. So whether or not everyone deserves to be here is up for debate.

    I’m not even sure what the point of this place is now. A sense of significance? But I guess that’s what you get when you post with your real name on a hate-everyone blog.

    Seeing as I don’t scam, spam, or defraud anyone I guess his standing is that I fit into the aptly named “d-bag” group. So that’s how you cover all your bases on this type of thing.

    One helluva “for the common good” mission statement.

    WARNING: don’t have a contrasting opinion with the messiah or you’re evil scum like everyone else. We wouldn’t want to inspire dissenters in the Cult of Salty Droid.

    Or, if you do, do it 100% anonymously so you don’t get labelled. Real inspiring.

    I’m still waiting a return email on his decision. Guess I’ll find out in due time whether he thinks I’m a shill or not. I don’t even pay attention to 0.01% of these IM “guru’s.”

    Fuck it.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Leon Reply:

    @Marc, Why your nonstop interest here, if you aren’t involved in internet marketing? It does not add up one bit.

    Interesting you should paint yourself as a victim. You have been way been more than just the devil’s advocate here. You have been the Devil’s Press Agent! Your comments are almost psychotic in reverence to, and providing excuses for these guys.

    You confess that you think your name might end up here. That tells the real story. People with nothing to hide don’t worry like that. Clean up your act for pete’s sake.

    Quit thinking you can avoid a speeding ticket by positioning yourself in the middle of a bunch of speeders. That’s your problem.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    @Leon, that’s an interesting point you make. Saying I’m worried. I’m not sure where I said that. But maybe I missed it somewhere. That’s true. I could have missed it.

    Perhaps I just think it’s stupid. (…naw.)

    If I was hiding anything I wouldn’t have used my real name where Jason could get at it. So speak for yourself. You say “these guys.” Yeah. Okay.

    Let’s back up a step: One. Dude. Count it.

    But don’t be objective about it. Just make shit up.

    Although. Nice speeding ticket comparison. Good one. Really. Unfortunately, I am not involved and *your* problem is thinking that everything has to add up.

    The only thing I am “worried” about is if I get labelled as something I’m not and given a reputation, then I might feel compelled to live up to it so you gossip queens have something legitimate to bitch about why everything sucks.

    You can’t just like a guy these days. Everyone must have a hidden agenda. Anyway, I’m done fueling your miserable fires. You guys are dry enough as it is don’t need a fan.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Dr. Freud Reply:

    @Marc, Leon never said anything about you being “worried.” That was your subconscious. You should ask it to lunch sometime and take notes.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    SD Reply:

    @Marc ::

    The question isn’t “are you a shill or not.” You are a shill.

    What am I going to do about it? That’s the question.

    The answer … for now … is that I’m going to play StarCraft 2 because it’s Saturday. Enjoy your misery.

    [Reply]

  • Troll B Gone said:

    @Michael,
    What a pitiful attempt at comment spam just to get a link back to your scam site.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Spamburger Reply:

    @Troll B Gone, It’s probably automated.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • Dan said:

    You know, when I first read this blog I thought it was BS, but this Kern video really does reveal a lot.

    I always knew the top dogs worked together because I rarely, if ever, saw them promote other products besides for their buddies…

    Strangely enough, I do agree with some of your points. I’ll keep reading

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

    [Reply]

  • Ed Dale scam said:

    As someone who has paid good money to be part of the immediate edge I can confirm that the accusations made about Ed Dale (and Dan Raine) in these comments are frighteningly accurate.

    The immediate edge and 30 day challenge forums are moderated by a number of people (mostly single women – not sure if that is relevant but it sure is weird) who get free membership to the immediate edge program. What always bothered me was that these people never had any success of their own online. They screamed and shouted whenever anyone challenged Ed Dale or Dan Raine and were fiercely loyal towards them. Almost pathologically loyal.

    Ed Dale uses photographs and videos of his daughter at every opportunity and it was this that sickened me the most when I started to peel beneath the hype to see what was going on.

    If anyone dares to ask any immediate edge member for proof of their success (as I did) and then asks awkward questions like “is anyone actually making any money?” they get run out of town faster than you can say “scam”.

    Show me one person who makes money with Dale’s crap. Come on immediate edge people – I fucking dare you. Put your head above the parapet and stand up for this guy if he is so damn good. So far all you’ve done is tell the Droid to leave him alone because he is a good guy.

    A good guy? Jesus fucking Christ. A good guy? Posting videos and photos of his daughter all over internet?? And what about the horror stories about what happens when someone dares to really pokes him in the eye??

    I’m also very convinced by the statement about Dale’s outing of Kern and his plan to ditch Raine (who has always been Dale’s whipping boy – search for that video where Ed Dale makes Dan Raine walk around in a pink thong for his affiliates entertainment and you’ll see what I mean).

    If you have Dale in your range finder Droid I can’t wait to watch the fireworks when you really start peeling him like the rancid onion he really is. Dale will fight back hard and so will his B team so you can be sure of a good time!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    How Embarrassing Reply:

    @Ed Dale scam, You must mean this video:

    httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW0xOhH34oQ

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Dan Raine's Pink Thong Reply:

    @Ed Dale scam,

    Here is the pink thong video….

    If that doesn’t work, here is the link:

    This was shot at the Whistler Bootcamp.

    The purpose of that bootcamp was for the group to work together and create a business. The participants in the background worked really hard to create a business, but after leaving the bootcamp, Ed and Dan lost interest in it, and no one received any of the proceeds of the business.

    I wonder if Ed and Dan have revived that business, now that everyone has forgotten about it.

    Oh, and Ed? Filming a man in a pink thong is lame, going to the effort to point out his package is GAY, and blogging, talking and making further videos about it for the next 3 years is indicative that you are a boring humourless fuck.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

    J. M.C.K Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    Lance Reply:

    @J. M.C.K, Yes, his children ARE adorable. One day, they may even learn the definition of the phrase, “manipulation tool.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @J. M.C.K. ::

    You should explain to @Marc how it’s a good idea to use a proxy server when leaving disingenuous and disgusting comments on my web site.

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Marc ::

    Yes where are these videos? Let’s get a look at his daughters as soon as possible!

    Silence requested.

    [Reply]

  • J. M.C.K said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    My Other Knee Reply:

    @J. M.C.K, Been reading “Cults for Dummies” again?

    Let’s cut to the meat of your argument, quoting your own exact words:

    “You people…” “obviously” “minimal at most” “probably were not aware” “Who knows” “simply out of line”

    All good points, once you’ve had enough Kool-Aid.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @J. M.C.K ::

    Some of the comments on this site are libelous and over the top … of that there is no doubt. There is also much belligerent stupidity. But that is beside the point. It’s not some random commenter tying Ed Dale to this thing … it’s me.

    Ed Dale is a part of this thing. You think I’m stupid? You think I’d say that if I wasn’t mighty fucking certain that it was true?

    Ed Dale = part of it.

    You know how else you might confirm to yourself that it’s true? Look at EVERYTHING he does.

    Maybe he regrets it … but at this point that counts for dick.

    … and Ed … my phone line is still open to accept your denial of any and/or all claims. I’ll have a few follow up questions of course. I’m sure you understand.

    [Reply]

  • Ed Dale Scam said:

    @J.M.C.K (AKA one of Ed Dale’s legal team I think, can’t be sure, can’t be sure, but I sure do think so) please consider the following statements as questions and answer accordingly.

    Ed Dale uses photos and videos of his daughter to pimp his stuff. True or false?

    The 30 day challenge is a 30 day email sales letter full of affiliate links. True or false?

    Ed Dale is partners with Dan Raine and Frank Kern. True of false?

    Ed Dale gives people free access to his programs in return for them running his forums and being called his B team leaders. True or false?

    Ed Dale pushes Ryan Diess as a wonderful guy and pushes his stuff in most of his emails. True or false?

    J.M.C.K is Ed Dale’s legal go to guy. True or false?

    This blog post is going to get Salty Droid taken down for libel. True or false?

    Ed Dale is right now telling people on his Twitter account to not feed the trolls in an attempt to stop this post from attracting more attention to him. True or false?

    No one has ever made any money with the Immediate Edge program. True or false?

    Ed Dale’s daughter cannot speak for herself and should not be used in Ed Dale’s peripheral marketing materials. True or false?

    Ed Dale has been declared bankrupt at least once in the past. True or false?

    Ed Dale privately considers Dan Raine as an expendable idiot in a pink thong and will drop him like a sack of rocks as soon as the IPO is complete. True or false?

    Let’s see one piece of proof that membership of any of Dale’s clubs is in any way worthwhile.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    J. M.C.K Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Ken Reply:

    @J. M.C.K, You’re defending Ed a little too aggressively to be a casual, third party. Waking up next to him or doing his laundry doesn’t qualify. Your kids are adorable by the way.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    J. M.C.K Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

    Ken Reply:

    @J. M.C.K, How do we unsubscribe?

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @J. M.C.K, lies, damed lies and statistics are what Edward Dale, Kern & co. use in their promises. prove me wrong bitch or shut the fuck up

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    J. M.C.K Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -5

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @J. M.C.K, or Eddy.. I spitty on you, and cum on ur wifes face if she hadn’t already left your limp dick

    Thumb up Thumb down -2

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Ed Dale Scam ::

    Exactly. Real questions get asked … and answers are NEVER forthcoming … which of course … is a very clear answer.

    “J.M.C.K is Ed Dale’s legal go to guy. True or false?”

    Explain that reference to me … I don’t get it.

    [Reply]

    Ed Fail Reply:

    Ed Dale uses photos and videos to pimp is daughter and snuggles with pedophile Internet Marketers like Paulie Sabol on cruises set up by Mike Filsaime.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • SD (author) said:

    Ladies ::

    Ed Dale uses his kids in his marketing … and I for one think it is beyond horrible. That is most certainly a valid topic … but let’s not use their names here … or link to the various proofs of this sin. I have censored/edited the occurrences … and will continue to do so.

    carry on.

    [Reply]

    Totally normal to use children... Reply:

    @SD,

    Totally normal in marketing circles to use children.

    The youtube comments are hilarious:

    )

    **Droid Edit {embed removed … too sad}**

    Damn, those are impressive business cards.

    “Hey everyone,
    The guy in this video is my dad. You probably saw my comment earlier about him not paying his child support. Seriously, we’re poor. Just to give you an idea of what a dumb donkey my mom is… uh, how do I put this… she wasn’t even raped. My dad — this guy — actually convinced her to have sex with him. She makes excuses, too “I thought he had a job. He showed me the most impressive business card I’ve ever seen.” When I turn 16 I’m going to get emancipated.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    Here’s Ed Dale fan page on FaceBook

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ed-Dale/7299288734

    And Frankie

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Frank-Kern/375649126849

    hmmm… what could we do on those pages.. I wonder. maybe add some content

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    Ed & co., it’s boring in my moms basement without you fucks replying(are u having gay sex or something?). maybe I should buy your products to get out of this financial mess after all… hehh

    Thumb up Thumb down -2

    [Reply]

  • Dan Raine's Pink Thong said:

    Ed Dale and Frank Kern broke up their partnership when Frank Kern decided to do the decent thing when customers voiced discontent about their scam $297 a month membership site, Ultra Underachievers.

    They were neglecting their customers in favor of planning a big event in San Diego.

    One forum post started off as an innocent discussion on poor spelling, then Ed chipped in with a defensive comment. For those of you who do not know him, Ed Dale is semi-literate and barely passed high school, but got through only because he was good at physics.

    Anyhoo, one of the subscribers wrote a very long post, calling Ed out on his attitude, lack of service and flagrant neglect of his paying customers.

    Ed quickly deleted the thread, as he hates to be criticised, and restarted it with a completely different slant.

    By the time Frank logged on, he didn’t see the original message, but admitted being in the wrong, then decided to stop the venture, on the grounds that he had nothing left to teach.

    The person who originally posted the critical message pieced together the series of events, before and after Ed deleted the thread.

    This pdf of events from long ago was emailed to me by four different ex-ultra underachiever members, who were really pissed that they had lost the hosting and all the other bonuses promised:

    http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/jcavbg

    At this time, Frank’s was still stinging from his FTC financial rape, so that’s why he was the more honest and trustworthy of the two.

    I don’t know which of the two is worse now.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    Mitch Reply:

    @Dan Raine’s Pink Thong,

    Thank you for posting tht link. EVERYONE here should read the exchange that is posted there. It’s good to see what people like Ed Dale are really like.

    My opinion of Ed Dale is now: -100%. (That’s a negative to the left of the 100.) Shame on you, Ed Dale. And your ego. To use the modern vernacular, “You ain’t all that.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Dan Raine’s Pink Thong ::

    That was interesting. And pathetic. So then they ended this membership site without following through on commitments? Did those precious DVD’s ever go out?

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @SD,

    “precious DVDs” hahahahaha you’re funny.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    Those who haven’t figured out yet.. You can figure out their bizz model and how they operate here, this shit is real, stuff they sell for $2k is garbage

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Anthony Mahavick said:

    thirtydaychallenge.com, and a bunch of Ed Dale’s other sites, are registered at this address:

    69 Ardmillan Rd, Moonee Ponds, Victoria, Australia

    Google Streetview will show it to you. It’s a modest house in a modest neighborhood.

    It even looks like it might need some paint.

    Is this really the hub of Ed Dale’s glamorous worldwide empire?

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Mr. Mooney Reply:

    @Anthony Mahavick, Perhaps the modest-appearing house is just a cover, and just inside there are steps leading to his underground city of gold where he keeps the goose that lays the golden IPOs. Or maybe he’s just full of shit. I’m leaning toward the latter.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • Phil said:

    Nice to see a site like this posting the truth about these IM guru’s.

    If only I’d found this site sooner, I’m one of their victims who has been cleaned out by them.

    I have lost my life savings to the IM guru’s in this so called syndicate, I’ve bought all the $2,000 courses, upsells etc – you name it I have probably bought it.

    I’ve recently been feeling suicidal and been suffering depression because of the amounts of money I have lost to these guys.

    There are probably a few hundred out there like me, who keep buying and buying who got sucked into this vicious cycle, somewhere along the line and before you know it you are on all of their e-mail lists and there is no escape.

    Once you get sucked in, it is very hard to get out – you don’t realize what is happening because they keep hitting you with new launches so you never get to evaluate the last $2,000 course you bought.

    All in all I’ve lost around $100,000 since 2007, I know a lot of it is my fault but this is a nasty addiction like gambling – once you get sucked in it is hard to escape from their clutches.

    I’ve recently woken up and realized most of the IM courses are garbage and NOT what they do themself, all they do is create different selling angles on information you can get in $15 business books on places like Amazon.

    Like a true sucker I bought Perpetual Traffic Formula, this is my last hope of recovering some of the money I’ve lost to these guys.

    One thing I’ve realized is these guru’s just make stuff up, for instance one of the dozens of these guru courses I bought was Mass Control from Frank Kern.

    After a bit of critical thinking I realized it is complete bullshit, he talks about NLP, using forums and other weird tactics – they are ALL fluff.

    Frank Kern, and the rest of the gurus in the syndicate all make their money from hammering each others big IM lists, with new make money products every month that is all there is to it, the rest of it is complete bullshit/fluff on top of obvious business fundamentals that are widely available.

    There is one exception Eben Pagan who made money in the dating niche, but after I purchased his Altitude DVD course looking back on it, it was complete rubbish full of theory, he was just rehashing info from business books – in fact through most of the DVDs he even admits he is doing this.

    Hopefully Ryan Deiss SEO course will work, this is my last go with these guru’s.

    I wish I could send all these IM courses back to these guru’s and get my hard earned money back, and start from scratch and start a real business.

    The truth is all one needs is to learn the fundamentals of business, once you know them like list building it isn’t that complicated, it requires hard work and persistence.

    All the IM guru’s do is take the obvious fundamentals, add a load of fluff/bullshit and a fancy product name and stick a $2,000 price tag on it and use tactics like scarcity, pressure and fancy sales videos to get people they have hypnotized to keep buying again and again.

    If anyone wants any info on any of these so called IM courses let me know, I have most of them apart from Outsource Force by John Reese, I have bought nearly all the rest of them.

    I really hope these guys can be stopped, they are dangerous they use scarcity, stuff like multiple payments for these courses and before you know it you have lost $10,000s in a few months.

    I do believe these guru’s know the hammer will come down on them eventually like with the free trial diet scams on the CPA networks (the FTC/visa/mastercard caught onto them), which is why there are so many launches they are trying to make a few more million each before the authorities clamp down or they are unable to process payments anymore because visa/mastercard gets tired of all the refunds/chargebacks or the FTC finds out what they are up to.

    Another thing I figured out is they use a merchant called Powerpay which allows these schemes, any other merchant account wouldn’t allow these make money get rich quick courses they would be considered too high risk especially under the new FTC and merchant account rules.

    I’m not out for revenge despite losing my life savings to these guys, just don’t want to see anyone else get sucked in and hurt – all you have left to show for it is an empty bank account at the end of it and a lot of pain.

    Forget about making millions of dollars in a day/week/month with any of these IM guru’s courses, it won’t happen and they will wipe out your life savings, run up all your credit cards – the only way they make their millions is by selling these IM courses to us and hammering each others lists. That is the truth.

    Sorry for going on and on, just wanted to get all this off my chest, if I posted my feelings on the warrior forum I would probably be banned, they rarely allow anything negative to be said about the guru’s on there which is why many newbies never figure out what is really happening and stay caught up in the vicious cycle.

    My last hope is Perpetual Traffic Formula, but Salty Droid seems to have exposed it as a scam and all Ryan’s previous courses were scams especially the ones he created with Perry Belcher, seems I should get my money back before the 60 days and join a genuine service like seo book which I’m currently checking out.

    I wish I could get all my money back somehow from all these IM gurus, can’t believe how stupid I have been.

    Phil

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +19

    [Reply]

    Mock Me Baby Reply:

    @Phil,

    If you are for real then you can get your money back on ALL the courses – regardless of when they were purchased – IF you purchased with a credit card and IF the promises made were fraudulent or misrepresentations.

    Anyhoo this isn’t legal advice but from my experience in getting a refund here’s what I would do if I felt that misrepresentation had occurred…

    1. Call asking for a refund. If you live in a state where phone recording without the other parties permission is allowed then you should tape record this convo without telling them. If it’s a state where you are not allowed let them know at the start of the convo. They will most likely try to talk you out of the refund or tell you time is up to get one. You should then explain to them the fraudulent part if it was fraudulent.

    2. If step 1 doesn’t do it then you sit down and write a letter to them making the same request and argument in writing. Send it certified mail.

    3. Two days after they receive it make another call and ask them for a decision. Tape this too. Don’t let them get off the phone without saying yes or no. If they don’t respond or say no – politely let them know that you will be forced to call your credit card and report this as a fraudulent transaction and in addition a letter will be written to the credit card company and that letter will be CC’d to your State’s Attorney General, the company’s state Attorney General, the BBB in your State and the BBB in their State and of course – the FTC.

    4. If they still say no. Make the phone call and mail the letter. The letter should not only explain what your position is but also list everything you have done so far to try to handle this with the company. You should include a copy of the letter you sent the company in number 2. Then write the company another letter and attach the letter you sent to the CC company, the AG, the BBB and the FTC. They will know you mean business.

    In the meantime most credit card companies give you an immediate credit on your credit card in cases of FRAUD or misrepresentation. So the money will be put back on your card while the dispute process continues. The vendor will have an opportunity to fight your dispute and will need to show your signature on a receipt or other verification that you made the purchase. However, all the signatures or agreements in the world are null and void in the case of fraud or misrepresentation. While all this is going on they will have had the $1999 or whatever sucked out of their bank account until this is resolved.

    So that’s what I would do if I had someone misrepresent their product to me.

    If there are a lot of people that were misrepresented and they ALL do the same thing then the scammer’s merchant account will be frozen. If they can’t find a legitimate way to explain the massive influx of chargebacks there is a high probability their merchant account will be permanently frozen and they will be added to a blacklist that prevents them from getting a legitimate merchant account ever again in their name.

    The way the current climate is with Visa, Mastercard and the pressure these two behemoths put on the companies that provide the merchant accounts to Internet marketers – most will want to give refunds BEFORE it turns into a chargeback. They are well aware that if their chargeback rate goes above a couple of percent they will be quickly placed on a watch list and the possibility of a temporary freeze will go up dramatically.

    So if you are for real I hope this helps.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    Darn Right Reply:

    @Mock Me Baby is right. You can still get your money back. One thing is true, and that is, “The Squeeky Wheel Gets The Grease.” Be the squeeky wheel. Don’t take “no” for an answer.

    If you bought based on false pretenses or claimed results (either of which can be implied even by testimonials), there is no such thing as a refund “deadline.” Don’t believe that for a minute. Follow up like @MockMe advised.

    It’s really sad how some of these gurus pitch people back and forth amongst themselves like a ball, giving it a little more spin each time. This is an example of what happens to a lot of people. They get sucked in deeper with every spin of the ball.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @Phil, start by getting your money back from the thing you just bought, which you know damned well won’t do you any good.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Phil ::

    Wow that is a sad story. It’s kinda crazy how you seem like you know it’s a hustle … but you keep doing it. Stop the insanity man! Get a refund right now. Tell Ryan I sent you.

    Then don’t buy anything else on the Internet for at least a year. I command you!

    [Reply]

    Martypants Reply:

    @Phil, I feel for you man, truly do. I agree with Salty though – don’t spend anything for at least a year.
    You mentioned SEOBook – where I am a member, and it costs $300/month. Even though I am a HUGE fan of Aaron’s site and the community, I still believe your best bet is to not spend any money for a while. SEOBook offer a TON of valuable information and tools FOR FREE. Read the blog. Register as a user (you don’t get spammed), and you can access the tools, and comment on posts. If, after looking at the free stuff, you are still inclined, then yeah, join us – and SEOBook membership can be a great step forward. There are amazing minds in there – and no one tries to get you on a mailing list, or sell you a “product” – there are real discussions and tips, and observations of people in niches across the board and around the world.
    I can’t speak for other people’s experiences in there, but I have only paid my monthly fees, ever. Never ONCE was I upsold, strong-armed or convinced I needed to spend anything – and it’s been over 2 years. Better still, people in there have hired me many many times, and I make some money working with smart webmasters on solid projects. So overall, I have earned way more than I have paid in – making me a bigger fan.
    Plus, as I told Aaron, the fact I can quit any time, for any reason is what I need. The day I don’t find the same value in this resource that I do today is the same day I will cancel my membership.
    If you do decide to join, I’ll be among the first to say hello, and be happy to help you find what you need…as will great people from every part of the world. Aaron, most of all.
    Just be careful, Phil – you sound wounded, but wiser. And I would suggest to return the Deiss product ASAP, so you can use that $2k to build your business, not his. Good luck, man…you’re thinking right, though.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

    [Reply]

    End of the Tunnel Reply:

    @Phil, I feel for you because I was somewhere like that.

    I was in an overpriced membership site for a long time. I didn’t spend a hundred grand, but I’ve never sniffed a hundred grand in my whole life. While in this membership site, I learned how to get upsold every month with the creator’s new frauducts. And yeah I learned some SEO principles and basic PPC and all this other IM stuff. I also read a book on architecture, but it’s not like I can design a house.

    Because I could watch the progress of other people in the site, I realized the whole thing was a scam. Salty’s site helped. So I quit and demanded a refund. Not just for the latest month, but for the WHOLE time I was in.

    The good news is, after a lot of fighting & threats (the real kind– like FTC/BBB/AG reporting, getting a lawyer, bitching unceasingly to PayPal), I got my money back. Yes, they tried to give me the runaround. Yes, they tried to offer me less than a full refund.

    Yes, I got my money back. All of it. Not until after I’d resigned myself to getting nothing and actually told them I wouldn’t take less than a full refund, so no thanks to their weak-ass offer.

    ( Martypants gives good advice above, I wish I’d had it )

    Now, my complaint wasn’t with Deiss, and I don’t know if you’ll get anything back from him or the other Syndicate bastards. But you should the energy and time you’ve been giving to these bullshit courses and turn around and put it into getting that money BACK.

    *** And that Deiss course in your hands right now is CRAP. ***

    His course will not help you. Get your refund NOW. Get out, get out of the MENTAL TRAP that keeps you thinking the next one’s gonna do it. It’s not. You’re not going to make money online with their shit. That’s why they focus so much on “mindset” and “manifesting”… it traps you in your own mind so you don’t question their methods. Rather than try their bullshit traffic-getting advice and see it’s shit, you end up staring at yourself in the mirror beating yourself up, wondering what part of your subconscious is holding you back.

    The truth is, their failed advice is holding you back. They design it like cliffhanger TV shows, always promising the carrot and never giving it.

    Because:

    * The only way to make money online is the same way to make money offline. Ridiculous amounts of hard work, often with years of struggle and 80-hour workweeks.

    The courses all gloss over this fact. The launches all gloss over this fact. Douchebag mainstream gurus like Tim Ferriss gloss over this fact. And one other fact remains:

    * EVEN IF YOU GOT EVERY COURSE FOR FREE, THEY WOULD STILL BE A HUGE WASTE BECAUSE OF THE TIME YOU LOSE. *

    So focus a little energy on getting that refund. Focus the rest on getting work if you don’t have any, and on taking care of yourself. Spend time with people you love. Realize you made a mistake that MANY other people have made, and show yourself some compassion for it.

    You’ll look back on this part of your life as a dark place you escaped from.

    The light at the end of *my* tunnel is that losing two years of my life to these jokers has made me serious for the first time in 10 years about going back to school. I don’t know what yours will be.

    It’ll be something. Something good.

    Good luck to you!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @End of the Tunnel ::

    What a great comment!

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    @End of the Tunnel,

    @ Phil,

    I know I said I wouldn’t come back or whatever, but I couldn’t resist. I am like a moth to light apparently. Especially after all the crap I said getting emotional I had to take it back.

    After reading comments like yours Phil, and “End of Tunnel” it really opens my eyes to the fact that I don’t really know what the fuck is going on behind closed doors.

    $100,000? Holy crap, and still bought PTF? Holier shit.

    Silently, or openly rather…

    I guess I was trying to hide the fact that I know all too well how easy it is to waste a year or two when you’re subscribed to every marketing list imaginable…

    Cause maybe I did it myself… fuck. That’s hard to admit…

    I guess what I’m trying to say is I fucked up and I don’t know half as much as I thought I did about what’s happening. And that I don’t really handle constructive criticism that well AT ALL..

    But I was thinking about what one dude said, fervent defense or whatever… shit man, that’s my fault and I should just own up to it first of all.

    Secondly, maybe I’ve been drinking too much Kool-Aid lately and dind’t know it until I read End of Tunnel’s post that shit was more embarrassing to me than anything else…

    Saying you wanted to go back to school? I never thought I would think that either, it’s like you spelled out for me exactly what i was thinking and why…

    Jason said it best on his blog in that post below.

    People don’t want to follow cheerleaders. So while I don’t want to lead large groups of people or whatever…I also don’t want to be a just another mindless savant… and I can see it lurking there…

    Anyway, basically what I’m trying to say is I fucked up and deserved all that’s dished out at me at the time even if I didn’t know it or just dind’t want to accept it.

    Fuck maybe I’ll learn something one of these days… I need to stop arguing with myself and go take a good hard look in the mirror, probably daily…

    Peace.

    Marc

    P.S. I feel like I learned a lot in two measly days here, never thought I would say that shit.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Marc Reply:

    @Marc, P.S. while I’m at it, more fun facts about how cool I am in real life. I don’t sell anything online or offline, I’m broke as hell, and I’ve never been more in debt my whole life.

    Pretty lame. Shows you how well it’s been working out for me.

    /reality check

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    End of the Tunnel Reply:

    @Marc, thanks… & you still got time. Peace to you!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Liar Crusher Reply:

    @Marc,

    Don’t be too hard on yourself. You and the other victims of the Circle Jerks (Syndicate) have fallen prey to some the most pervasive and profoundly insidious cult-like, no-holds, barred, zero-ethics-on-board psychological assaults probably since the Internet was born :: oh, isn’t it cute? Actually, it can be Rosemary’s Baby, too, so watch your step in cyberspace ::

    The things the Circle Jerks are doing are …well, there aren’t words for it and I am rarely at a lack of them, it is that scummy, that evil and that heartless…but, I’ll try again, the Circle Jerks are using every slimy tactic EVER INVENTED OR DEVISED by marketiers to ply money for their wares fromt he public.

    You have to understand that these Jerks (off each other too much) have taken the most powerful and extreme marketing tactics known to an and cranked them up to 11 and unleashed them on the innocent to separate them (and you) from your cash.

    So, while you are sitting here bagging on yourself, they have taken your spirit AND your money.

    The latter, okay, f*ck it, it’s just money. NEVER let a scumbag ride off into the sunset with your spirit. They are NEVER worth it.

    So you made some IM mistakes. Welcome to planet earth. You will have A LOT of company in that boat!

    The Syndicate and all the members of it are evil. That is all you need to know. So you lost a year or two of your life and some money. Welcome aboard. Don’t waste any more time and money. Stay away from IM and get back to a real-world life where you can find some real potential and future success.

    Liar Crusher

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    TheRevealer Reply:

    @Phil,

    Listen closely…

    MAN UP — it’s time to SNAP OUT of the viscious cycle of insanity which is leading you to a depression. YOU CAN GET ALL YOUR MONEY BACK!

    It’s time to FIGHT BACK!

    It’s time to DEMAND YOUR MONEY BACK!

    It’s time to RECLAIM YOUR SANITY!

    RECLAIM YOUR POWER!

    This will be your 1st step towards becoming a successful businessman.

    The Revealer.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    be well Reply:

    @Phil, how are you holding up? I’ve been thinking about your post for some days now. I hope that you are feeling a little better. If you haven’t already, email Salty , he will help you recover in any way he can. You’re not alone, lots of us have lost money, and while I’ve only lost a fraction of what you’ve lost, there are more important things in life than money, like your children, your wife, your parents your siblings, your friends and other loved ones.

    You’re still alive, Phil, it’s more than what Colleen Conaway or James Shore have left. That could have been easily you or me. Your story needs to be heard, so that there is some remote chance of things changing in the future.

    I know what it is like to fall into a deep depression and to feel like giving up, I’ve been there where you were and even beyond that point. It gets easier at some point. Take care of yourself, Phil, maybe look for something to help you feel better, maybe spend some time with your wife or girlfriend, eating your favorite meal, watching a comedy, or prayer. It won’t make your world change overnight, but these are small stepping stones.

    There are people here that care about you, I care about you, even though I’ve never met you. Remember, suicide is NEVER the answer, and you can’t take any money with you beyond this life.

    If Colleen or James were here I think they would want you to share your experience in a book or blog. You can create a free blog on blogger.com. You can even transfer your blog directly into a book and self publish http://bit.ly/aXIEr6

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • corsair said:

    Took a look at Frank Kern’s facebook page and came across a
    link to this site—–>http://www.mindmovies.com

    I don’t have much experience in “Secret Stuff” but from what I can see (and please correct me if I’m wrong) a mind movie is simply a photo slideshow with a musical background…. all for $197.

    After you make your mind movie you’re supposed to play it while you work to allow it to “subliminally” work on your subconscious which allows you to claim everything in your movie.

    I’m sure Joe “Mr. Fire” Vitale is kicking himself for not coming up with this.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Irwin Bumpkiss Jr. Reply:

    @corsair, Yep, that’s ridiculous. Someone could buy a really good video editing software package in any office supply store for a fraction of that. Or they could use one of the many, many online services like Animoto.com to do the same thing even better.

    Packaging flimsy, second rate versions of existing products and charging sky high prices seems to be the modus operandi of that group.

    What will be Frank Kern’s next product? Maybe “shit on a stick?” I’m sure he’d come up with a great story for it. But it will still stink.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Deiss Affiliate Reply:

    @corsair, Those boys paid for Kern’s coaching, so they get promoted. It is the worst of the worst when marketers pretend to be self improvement experts. Especially with this kind of woo. Funny shit that Vitale would be jealous. Sad but true

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Mind Moobies Reply:

    @corsair,

    So glad you brought this up! Not to detract from the IM scamapalooza being exposed here, but I would really, REALLY like to see someone expose this latest “LOA Gone Wild” scheme, as well.

    I’ve gotten no less than 70-100 emails in the past 2 weeks, alone, about these craptastic Mind Movie videos — emails which mostly contain the same regurgitated messages about how the sender’s “good friend” (Gee, the creator of Mind Movies sure has a lot of friends!! *sarcasm*) has a remarkable deal for their list, and how one must hurry (“because the offer is coming down soon!!”) — and, once again, it’s obvious that the only people who will be getting rich off this are the people at the very top of this mass manipulation chain, rather than the desperate consumers & affiliates who bought into it.

    It’s repulsive. As shown on this blog, there’s more than enough “fleecing of the public” going on, already; the last thing people need is more of these slimy LOA parasites slithering out of the woodwork, selling more magical (& all technical/”scienterrific” sounding! *snark added* ) turds.
    And, as mentioned, there are plenty of free or reasonably priced alternatives, if one really does want to create the whole video experience for themselves — but the trolls behind these videos are obviously hedging their bets that most of their targeted audience either don’t know that or can be misled into believing that the “Mind Movies” contain some revolutionary material that can’t be replicated for cheaper, elsewhere.

    What a bunch of a**hats. Shame on them for charging exorbitant amounts for this stuff, & for dragging so many (mostly) well-meaning affiliates down into the sewer with them.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Mind Boobies Reply:

    @Mind Moobies,

    You are right. Ryan from Mind Movies pays Frank kern over $100,000 a year to be one of his coaching clients. Part of this deal includes having your product promoted to Frank’s email list.

    This is why people like jeff schwerdt who are not part of the syndicate are being promoted by Frank, and making over $400,000 from the get go, using information ripped off from Jason Moffatt:

    “Another dude took my Video HiJacker stuff verbatim a few months ago and made damn near a half a million dollars. I wouldn’t of minded so much if I was just given credit, but it was incredibly lame how the whole thing was put together.”

    http://www.jasonmoffatt.com/internet-marketing/dont-model-my-business.html

    So Jason’s spent years sucking Frank’s dick under the table, and only managed to gather a few crumbs. I cry.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @ corsair: Joe may not have come up with Mind Movies but, as we discussed recently on another thread on this blog, that hasn’t stopped him and some of his b.f.f.’s from enthusiastically participating in the scheme. On July 26 and 27, Joe tweeted about a Proctor “Mind Movie” numerous times, so obviously he’s getting a piece of the action.

    Read all about it on this thread… it’s at the bottom of the comments section (July 28-29):
    http://saltydroid.info/supporting-bob-proctor/

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    NYC Girl Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    If you watch the video at mindmovies.com (which I unfortunately did) you’ll see Joe in there shilling away, along with everyone’s favorite Secret sharer, Bob Proctor. Bob actually said he wasn’t making anything for the promotion. No such guarantee came from Mr. Vitale.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @NYC Girl, I tried to watch but couldn’t get through the whole thing. You can be sure that Scientist Bob and Joe are both getting something that makes participation in this project worth their while. After all, Scientist Bob and Mr. Fire are both part of the same shillionaire inner circle (jerk).

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Mind Movie Racket Reply:

    @corsair, Yeah and the so called Mind Movie creation software you’re getting to create these ‘movies’ is none other than ‘Memories on Web’ which is freeware and can be downloaded here – http://www.codejam.com/slideshow/mow.htm.

    You use ‘Memories on Web’ in combination with PowerPoint (to write your statements/affirmations), you take photos from Flickr and then you add in your favorite music. Can you say copyright infringement?

    What a racket. At least that’s how it was when I bought it back in 2007. At least I only paid $37 back then for the digital version.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Eben Pagan & Mike Filsaime Both Ready to Have Butt Sex In Bed…

    http://www.mediafire.com/i/?0pam722l729scss

    @Phil

    I REALLY REALLY hope you get all your money back. I pray for you man. Try to see if you can do what is suggested on this blog to get your money back. Please try it at least! They DO NOT DESERVE your life’s savings!!!!

    You should have spent that money either on a house or on a brick & mortar business.

    It’s also obvious you read my posts about how these guys take 10 dollar books you can find on Amazon and sell it for $2000…

    Please unsubscribe to EVERY last one of their email lists. Everytime you get an email – unsubscribe right there.

    By the way – Mike Filsaime is a really big fucking spammer.

    http://www.mediafire.com/i/?nniy28f4rawacbb

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Vitale Watcher Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, Eben looks very excited to be on the same bed with the gnome. Mike Filsaime looks like a heroi addict.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Also Eben Pagan does the same with this Dating Courses.

    His “Catch Him And Keep Him” brand has so many complaints from women who have had unauthorized charges.

    His “Double Your Dating” sells high-end courses with repetitive bullshit, fluff and way too much theory just like his Get Altitude crap.

    And you are RIGHT… In his DVD’s he even admits to outright plagiarism… what an idiot.. that’s enough for a lawsuit worthy case for any walking attorney

    Deiss looks like a little bitch… I’m serious… He looks like a teeny booper that needs to learn the meaning of HUMBLE….

    Let’s notify Tony Schwartz and every other author he has mentioned of copying from if they are aware of his plagiarism along with proof so we can all hear about the heated lawsuits in the upcoming weeks on the Salty Droid Blog…

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    And by the way…

    The majority of the courses these douches sell can be downloaded for FREE on either the blackhat forum, torrent sites or warez forums…

    Garbage can always be found for free.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Also it’s very much intellectually improbable that these gurus are able to create completely 100% unique QUALITY content every 1-3 months…

    That’s just no likely to be probable.

    The best selling famous mainstream authors can sometimes take 2 whole fucking years yet they never sell their book for $2,000 unlike these scums of the universe.

    I bet their Syndicate group has a meeting at a local Barnes & Noble where they pick out business books and have Ryan Deiss type fast on his college computer while Eben Pagan tries to intellectually enrich his writing.

    They do it within a week. Then they design the sites, write the bonuses or offer a previously done frauduct as a bonus…. Write the emails… Set the dates…

    After that it’s time for the scam dance at the affiliate meetings….

    Hit the send button and now they are planning a seminar off the content on the frauduct for $10K a head in Las Vegas…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    lmfao Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    “intellectually enrich”…that’s hilarious.

    The IM ‘Content Euphemism’ Scale:

    Stolen > Spun > Repurposed > Intellectually Enriched

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    seminar = scaminar

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • Dave said:

    @SyndicateExposed The fact that these frauducts can be found online for free through illegal file sharing is in no way proof that they are garbage . The fact is that virtually all digital media: books, videos, music or software can be found for free through P2P file sharing.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Dave,

    That fact that someone is willing to share something they bought for $2,000 with illegal file sharing says a lot. Especially since they are supposed secrets.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Dave Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, Actually, the fact that it can be found on illegal file sharing says nothing about the quality of the product. You can make many assumptions but unless you speak directly to the person who initially put it on the P2P network, you can’t be certain of their reason.

    They may have paid for it, and then asked for a refund knowing full well they were never going to keep it, and always intended the purchase to be used as a way to acquire the product for later dissemination over P2P networks…and of course many other scenarios can be made.

    I was simply pointing out that your conclusion (frauduct is on P2P proves frauduct is garbage) was invalid, that P2P file sharing has most programs good (Photoshop) and bad (perpetualtrafficaccident) that currently exist available for download.

    The existence of these frauducts (notice my repeated use of the word frauduct instead of product) on P2P networks can not in any way be construed logically as a measure of the quality of the product. It can be logically concluded though that the person engaging in the as still current criminal activity of P2P file sharing doesn’t respect the law and perhaps more importantly doesn’t respect the right of others to profit from their work (I’m referring to the non-frauducts on P2P networks).

    Stealing from liars, cheats, and cons still makes you a criminal.

    Quote from Salty:
    “2. DON’T download these fucking frauducts. They are part of the poison. Correctly analyzed :: “piracy” is actually a highly effective marketing tool. You think you’re pulling a fast one … downloading gigs and gigs or free “content” … but then you pay for ONE seminar … ONE moment of magical coaching … ONE experiential experience … and then the jokes on YOU.

    The products themselves are a tool used to shape you into something less than what you should be … don’t watch them.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -15

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    Tony Robbins in the “New Money Masters” episode with Kern, had orgasm when he heard about Stacking the Cool. At least it sounded great from Kern’s perspective. wonder what would he say on Phil’s perspective. when he finds out people are losing life savings on stacked Cool.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    can’t wait till FTC starts to stack the cool

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    and when Frank Kern also in the New Money Masters said, HE’S CHARGING *8 TIMES MORE* THAN THE ACTUAL VALUE OF THE PRODUCT IS.. simply because he can..

    someone should put that on youtube if you know how to clip videos. frank & tony, if you think your copyrights will be hurt, just speak up mates

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    the atheist christian Reply:

    @EdFCKUFrankFCKU2, would be tickled to see this video you’re talking about. Is it possible for you to find it and share here? Just love seeing Irwin Kern’s pretty face.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @EdFCKUFrankFCKU2,

    “Frank Kern also in the New Money Masters said, HE’S CHARGING *8 TIMES MORE* THAN THE ACTUAL VALUE OF THE PRODUCT IS”

    Would did I tell you when I said they buy $10 dollar bucks & sell it for $2000?

    The truth is he really can NOT sell it 8-10 times more but he PRESSURES people and TRICKS them into thinking it’s worth $2000.

    Why would any person in their right mind be proud of selling someone something which has little value compared to what you sold it to them for?

    That’s not fair business dealings. $2000 divided by 8 = $250…

    But i doubt it’s even worth that – What it’s really worth is 10 – 100 at the MOST… Which is 20-200 times less than it’s worth.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    the atheist christian Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    Listen ::

    1. If you want to win at ANYTHING on the Internet … then you can’t be talking about exploiting the advantages of P2P networks. Right now … it’s against the law … criminal and civil laws. Of course :: the copyright laws are so out of touch as to be a mockery … but go talk about it on the EFF blog …

    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archive

    … or help organize so that Disney can’t write blank checks to poor and uneducated Congressmen.

    Doing it here gives ammunition to the asstards. If you want to fight for the good … then “encouraging people to break the law” can’t be on your resume.

    2. DON’T download these fucking frauducts. They are part of the poison. Correctly analyzed :: “piracy” is actually a highly effective marketing tool. You think you’re pulling a fast one … downloading gigs and gigs or free “content” … but then you pay for ONE seminar … ONE moment of magical coaching … ONE experiential experience … and then the jokes on YOU.

    The products themselves are a tool used to shape you into something less than what you should be … don’t watch them.

    [Reply]

    Wordley Hooverford Reply:

    @SD, are you trying to make into Bartlett’s Quotations? This should get you there:

    “The products themselves are a tool used to shape you into something less than what you should be … don’t watch them.”

    And append to that this classic:

    “Garbage in, garbage out” – George Fuechsel

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_In,_Garbage_Out

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • EdFCKUFrankFCKU2 said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Yoozya Hedd Reply:

    @EdFCKUFrankFCKU2, Dude, you discredit both sides of the spectrum with that kind of talk. What’s the matter with you?

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • the atheist christian said:

    Hey what if we posted information on our blogs that showed people where to get the same information free that these scammers are trying to sell? I’m not talking about pirating sites necessarily, but sites like SEObook, that have information that’s free and just as good if not better. That will sure drive the IM googoos err..I mean “gurus” to keel over and dry heave.

    Just a thought

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Brilliant Idea Reply:

    Excellent idea. People would flock to a site or blog like that.

    For example, you could list “Perpetual Traffic Formula” along with its price ($2,000) and right next to that, show where people can get better information, for free. The list would include specific topic sites, forums, etc., and their links.

    The first blogger who does this is going to get some huge traffic.

    Get on it!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Just reported Eben Pagan to Tony Schwartz for copyright infringement.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, we all understand that you don’t like Eben Pagan (your competitor in the woman-hating game) but do you even know what copyright means?

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Snappy Jones Reply:

    @Unicorn Army, He probably doesn’t, but who cares, it’s a free fireworks show. :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Unicorn Army,

    Yes I know what it means. He may have NOT been given the legal to use that content.

    Don’t assume things about these people. They laugh at their customers in their meetings and say horrible things about them. Don’t assume that they also follow copyright laws.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, are you talking about copying *content* or “stealing ideas?” There’s a big difference. Writers don’t want to be pestered by people telling them so-and-so stole their ideas. I know that’s a big deal to you “pick up artist” d-bags but it doesn’t mean a thing in the real world.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Santa Reply:

    @Unicorn Army, Don’t burst his bubble, party pooper! :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    @Unicorn Army,

    If you haven’t looked at Eben’s programs. Don’t talk and go away. He stole content.

    and Yeah.. It makes real sense that writers wouldn’t want people telling them about copyright infringement.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Unicorn Army ::

    They lit an entire box of unstable M-80s on fire … it’s not going to explode in a reasonable fashion.

    @SyndicateExposed ::

    … chillax.

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @SD, I get that. ;-)

    I just get a kick out of these PUA guys who descended on your blog the instant Eben Pagan’s name was dropped. Are they interested in making the world a better place, or taking out a competitor?

    If their products actually work as advertised, the “results” are:

    1. Some loser getting his rocks off
    2. Fatherless children
    3. The Maury Povich show

    Maury Povich! If you care about humanity at all, you’d never do *anything* that might cause Maury Povich to happen.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    [Reply]

    Unicorn Army Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, if nothing else, you’ve proved beyond any reasonable doubt that you are not Ross Jeffries.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    Chill Pill Reply:

    @Unicorn Army, @SyndicateExposed:

    Ok, now shake hands and press (CTL)(ALT)(DEL) together.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    SyndicateExposed Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -7

    J. U. Xtuposition Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, You go guy!

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Big Chuck Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, they’re friends. I saw the Altitude DVDs… Eben interviews him.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • Mock Me Baby said:

    SD -

    I hope you snatch some of the better comments and put them in a post. The onslaught of comments makes it hard to find the good ones. 400 + comments is a lot.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    I hate the facial expression habits that Eben Pagan makes… like here

    http://www.mediafire.com/i/?6pk1pbc4x224uv9

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    JB Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,

    No wonder he needs a dating course to get laid…what an ugly fucker

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • ItchyBallSac said:

    Nominee For Worst Sales Video By A ‘Guru’
    How bad is Ball Sac’s video on this page?
    https://www.secrettrafficmachine.com/indexeof.php

    I mean….seriously – Put a little thought into your presentation.

    Total Cheeseball

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Ziggy Reply:

    @ItchyBallSac, Surprisingly, he sounds like he’s cut back to under 50 cups of coffee a day.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    JB Reply:

    @Ziggy,
    He’s another fuckhead

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Just reported Yanik Silver to his merchant account provider for misrepresentation of his frauducts.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Wendel Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed, You are really a man on a MISSION. It takes more than just a keyboard to do what you are doing. Keep us posted!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Confused said:

    So what exactly are we doing to stop these guys?

    I see many great ideas here. I also see a lot of fake posts from the syndicate (to confuse us and defend them).

    Still today the gnome’s phone room will bilk hundreds of people and ruin lives.

    I’d like to see sites up about each of the syndicate members outlining in detail each of their offenses. This would be a good resource to send potential victims to so they know what they’re getting into before they shell out their hard earned dollars.

    Salty is great. He gets people thinking and talking. He gets people questioning. But if someone comes here they can easily dismiss it. We need a companion site that is more about clear documentation. A database of douche-baggery if you will.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Jeff Rossries said:

    How about numbering the comments and posting them in chronological order to make it easier to find new comments? I’m sure most people miss most of the new comments because they don’t want to dig them up.

    If someone wants to reply to a post, they @ the # of the post for a response, but it won’t be directly under it.

    Anyone else agree?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Act Now Reply:

    @Jeff Rossries, Better yet, why not just buy Kevin Trudeau’s “Mega Memory Course” and you’ll remember them all.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Passive Observer said:

    For those wanting to see the comments in order you can subscribe to the comment RSS feed in a reader like google reader and it will download all the new comments in chronological order.

    I admit i have been checking a couple times a day for the last two days. This is a great post.

    I also find it interesting that the syndicate teach internet marketing and yet I bet none of them have ever had a blog post that has 400 plus comments. That is actually quite amazing.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SyndicateDroid Reply:

    @Passive Observer,

    Learn how to become a marketer from the Droid.

    Watch his artificial intelligence on marketing destroy the syndicate… Learn from it & apply it to your own business.

    It will teach you more than any frauduct sold by these cocksuckers.

    PS. Yanik Silver sells his Underground Online Scaminar for $3500. I bet you a lot of people regret buying it. Let’s wait and see if his merchant account provider decides to freeze his account.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @SyndicateDroid,
    OMG Irwin Frank Kern IVth ITT.. mom & dad, I can’t believe it. wanna sign autogram u genius snake oil marketer??

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • asldikjf said:

    Not sure if you saw this:

    Frank Kern & Eben Pagan on Investigation by FBI & FTC: “Syndicate” Organization.

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1862954

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]