The Syndicated Comments

show me the fake money :: part 2

{smoke still clearing}

Hi again!

So badguys … how you like me now?

The Internet Marketing Syndicate post {plus comments} currently has a word count of 54,000. The first 1500 words are fucking priceless {natch!}. The quality of the remaining 52,500 is … let’s say … highly variable. So :: for the second time :: the comments are the post.

Congratulations on the epic honor of making the cut … your fake check is in the mail {no it isn’t!}.

@Cosmic Connie ::

“Good work, SD. You have illuminated the apparent business model not only for some of the top players in IM but also for the related and oft-overlapping New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality industries. There are “cartels” everywhere, it seems. Which, it seems, is precisely your point.”


“They’ve since had a few big pow-wows. One the day after kern’s second mass control event at his office. You can get a sense of who is in the group (and who isn’t) based on who attended and spoke – although there was one or two speakers who are not members of the syndicate. Reese, Belcher, Deiss, Mulligan, Filsaime, Walker, Kern, Koenigs, Pagan, Jenkins, Fallon, Johnson are all members.

They coordinate launches – with an actual calendar. They coordinate launch themes so nobody steps on anyone else’s toes and everyone can promote one after the other. They decide who is going to promote who and when they’ll do it”


“Let’s stop for a minute. Ed Dale promotes all the syndicate offers, yet when his loyal followers produce a business that can genuinely help people, he DOESN’T promote them, but strings them along and suggests that if they scratch his back (by working on the challenge for free), maybe he’ll scratch theirs. WTF?!?

… He is going public with a company based on stabbing people in the back, and he is planning on using his stock to “buy” people’s businesses for peanuts.”

@Ed Dale scam

“If anyone dares to ask any immediate edge member for proof of their success (as I did) and then asks awkward questions like “is anyone actually making any money?” they get run out of town faster than you can say “scam”.”

There are many comments that paint Ed Dale in the dull light of a rotten pink thong … and many defenders hiding behind proxy servers :: sounding emotionally disturbed :: and stinking of the same thong.

@Nuisance to the Douche-ance {writes a song for Mike Filsaime}

“Don’t make me call Pauli Sabol, (smiles)
I’ll put your kids on a cruise with that pedophile
I need to buy more drugs and hair plugs
So, I’m gonna get my money by connin’ you ‘nugs”

@Name Unimportant {on Syndicate “bonuses”}

“For example, when one launches their pricey product promoted by their cronies, they eventually (and sometimes shortly thereafter) give away their once high-priced product as a free bonus during a colleague’s subsequent launch.

It’s infuriating to me to see people paying several thousands of dollars for a product during one big launch, only to see it being given away as a free bonus, less than a few months later, as an incentive to buy from their affiliate link for another crony’s big launch.”

@Slick {on the same}

“By having each affiliate add bonuses to their packages…the question of whether to buy or not psychologically (and emotionally) shifts to: “WHICH ONE should I buy?” as opposed to just whether to buy or not. ‘Which one’. Not ‘should I’?”

@SyndicateExposed {who very well might be a lunatic}

“Eben Pagan looks like the biggest pussy I’ve ever seen. I feel like I could actually come up to him, put my hand in his pocket, take out his wallet and walk away with him explaining the evolutionary & psychological reasoning and analysis for my crime.”

Pagan gets beat to death with wet noodle :: News at 11.

Former StomperNet honcho Dan Theis left a long comment regarding where to draw the criminal line in the criminal sand.  He makes some okay points … but all I’m going remember is this …

@Dan Thies

“Does the Syndicate exist? Yes, it does – it’s been one of the worst-kept secrets in Internet Marketing for a few years now.

{yada yada}

In my opinion, the Internet Marketing “industry” is broken and sick, and would be so if none of your targets had ever gotten into the business.”


“I am not happy with some of the stuff I promoted in the past. I did it because otherwise they wouldn’t promote me and it was crucial for my product to be success. The fact is I have so much information about this industry that would put a lot of them behind bars. I have been to the affiliate parties and I know exactly what goes on there and how the deals are made. You should guys hear how they talk about their customers. It’s sickening.”


“This is all funny. And the reality is that Kern ran out of money last year… Eben Pagen lives in a shit hole and really has about 7 employees and not hundreds like he tells people and the rest of them have to continuously con people because they could not run or build a business if their life depended on it.”


“How do you feel about Kern saying they are all just USING YOU to spread the word and provide (manufactured) “social proof” to get people to buy almost EXCLUSIVELY from the SYNDICATE MEMBERS instead of you?

He’s admitting you are LOCKED OUT and are just being used. Your efforts are doomed because you can’t be a member of his private “syndicate.”

This is really quite a revelation, and should be extremely upsetting to anyone who is, or ever has been an affiliate.”


“If you’re another online marketer, why are you going to sit on your ass while these guys run you out of the marketplace? They are smiling in your face and plotting your demise behind your back. THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED BY THE DROID. WAKE UP.”

@Mock Me Baby {on why FTC actions are so scary}

“1. They are a civil agency and therefore you do not have a RIGHT to legal representation. OUCH.

2. They have many Court Opinions that give them the right to FREEZE ALL YOUR ASSETS BEFORE YOU EVEN GO TO COURT. And these injunctions and freezes specifically say you cannot spend any of your money on an attorney. OUCH.”

@Phil {sad}

“If only I’d found this site sooner, I’m one of their victims who has been cleaned out by them.

I have lost my life savings to the IM guru’s in this so called syndicate, I’ve bought all the $2,000 courses, upsells etc – you name it I have probably bought it.

I’ve recently been feeling suicidal and been suffering depression because of the amounts of money I have lost to these guys.

All in all I’ve lost around $100,000 since 2007, I know a lot of it is my fault but this is a nasty addiction like gambling – once you get sucked in it is hard to escape from their clutches.

Like a true sucker I bought Perpetual Traffic Formula, this is my last hope of recovering some of the money I’ve lost to these guys.

I wish I could get all my money back somehow from all these IM gurus, can’t believe how stupid I have been.”

@End of the Tunnel {in response … very nice … but also sad}

“*** And that Deiss course in your hands right now is CRAP. ***

His course will not help you. Get your refund NOW. Get out, get out of the MENTAL TRAP that keeps you thinking the next one’s gonna do it. It’s not. You’re not going to make money online with their shit. That’s why they focus so much on “mindset” and “manifesting”… it traps you in your own mind so you don’t question their methods. Rather than try their bullshit traffic-getting advice and see it’s shit, you end up staring at yourself in the mirror beating yourself up, wondering what part of your subconscious is holding you back.

The truth is, their failed advice is holding you back. They design it like cliffhanger TV shows, always promising the carrot and never giving it.

So focus a little energy on getting that refund. Focus the rest on getting work if you don’t have any, and on taking care of yourself. Spend time with people you love. Realize you made a mistake that MANY other people have made, and show yourself some compassion for it.

You’ll look back on this part of your life as a dark place you escaped from.

The light at the end of *my* tunnel is that losing two years of my life to these jokers has made me serious for the first time in 10 years about going back to school. I don’t know what yours will be.

It’ll be something. Something good.”

And @Marc :: who started like this …

“This is the most insidious place ever.”

… and finished :: after much vitriol :: like this …

“I guess I was trying to hide the fact that I know all too well how easy it is to waste a year or two when you’re subscribed to every marketing list imaginable…

Cause maybe I did it myself… fuck. That’s hard to admit…

… maybe I’ve been drinking too much Kool-Aid lately and dind’t know it until I read End of Tunnel’s post that shit was more embarrassing to me than anything else”

… and who is forgiven by me.

Taking us out on a teaser for the next post … long time commenter @Rafael Marquez …

“It’s all about semantics. I love how he says “trade union” over and over instead of the more evil and sinister sounding “gang,” “cartel” or “co-conspirators””

>> bleep bleep

146 thoughts on “The Syndicated Comments”

  1. Am especially impressed with Rafa Marquez’ comments. Ends an illustrious stint with Barcelona, captains Mexico to the final 16 in WC, signs with NYRB, and still has time to contribute here. I doff my cap.

    1. And the backlash continues…

      Side note (inspired by “End of the Tunnel’s” comment): If anybody here is considering “going back to school” as an alternative to Internet marketing, please BE CAREFUL.

      Being a perpetual student is a costly endeavor, no matter who you’re paying for your education. At some point, each person has to get down to the business of using their education instead of acquiring more of it.

      In my humble opinion, the only difference between expensive Internet marketing courses and college education is… college costs more.

      Of course, this isn’t true for all colleges (there are a few good ones), but it’s true of many colleges. The one you especially want to steer clear of is University of Phoenix.

      Just search “University of Phoenix scam” on Google to see what I mean.

      There have even been recent television programs revealing that University of Phoenix uses predatory practices to squeeze as much money out of each and every student as they can.

      Many students leave UoP with tens of thousands of dollars of debt and a worthless education.

      I mention this because these days “going back to school” is often synonymous with “going to University of Phoenix.”

      Caveat emptor.


      1. @Ryan Healy,

        UofP’s tactics aren’t much different from so-called “non-profit” schools. The problem isn’t UofP. The problem is a system where the feds provide massive piles of taxpayer dough. The returns society gets ain’t worth the money we are throwing at higher education. You shouldn’t need a 4-year degree to get a job as a billing specialist in a dentist’s office.

          1. @Ryan Healy,

            I guess you *could* look at higher education as a more elaborate version of the Syndicate.

            “Higher education” would be cheaper and just as fun and educational if we replaced college loans with a bag of weed and a supply of Freak Bros comic books, gratis to all HS graduates.

        1. @Cromulent, You bring up a great point — but it’s STILL UoP’s fault for taking ADVANTAGE of a situation they know isn’t right…even though the money’s there to milk.

      2. @Ryan Healy, EXCELLENT point.

        Here’s what it takes to make money online:

        You find something you can do. Something you enjoy doing and you are reasonably good at. And you do it with whatever time you have to spare WORKING A JOB to pay your bills while you grow your business.

        And you keep it up. Maybe a year. Maybe five years.

        Consistent effort over time. NOT one course after another course after another course.

        Check out this highly unusual post by John Carlton:

        I was shocked to see a major “player” in the biz telling his readers to hold ON to their money and pay their way with CASH they can afford to lose.

        Sounds like real business sense to me.

        The reason so many people keep falling for this crap is that so many people want to be able to pop a pill and live the life of their dreams.

        This gets them into trouble no matter WHERE they apply it. Making money. Weight loss. Dating. Stamp collecting.

        It doesn’t really matter. The desire to short-cut the process of BUILDING a profitable business will short-circuit your reaching that goal virtually every time.

        So — a tip: Watch out. Read the sales letter. Don’t fall for the panic-driven “it’s going to be GONE soon” mentality — we all see how many times it really isn’t gone but in fact might be free next month!

        If the sales material promises riches in a week…or even a month…run.

        If the sales materials says you won’t have to do ANYTHING but buy this and you’ll reach your dreams (can anyone say THE SECRET?) – run.

        What these people are doing is criminal and they must be stopped. Stopping as many of their potential future buyers as possible is another attack point.

        THINK, people…THINK.

        1. @Poop Chute, I actually lived what you just described. Worked a job for 7 years while trying to start/build businesses in my spare time.

          Woke up every day at 5 a.m., 7 days a week, for three of those years (unless I was sick).

          Worked on a handful of projects every single day.

          And even then — after 7 years of experimenting (including 3 years of hard work and studying) — I still faced a few obstacles after I quit my job.


          1. @Ryan Healy, THAT’S what I’m talking about. EFFORT. Consistent effort toward your goal.

            Go into business knowing there is inherent risk in ANY business. Like all those investment disclaimers say: you could lose EVERYTHING you put in.

            It’s sad, really, than now that “fuck” is fully outted, “work” has replaced it as a four-letter word.

            Looking back on my life, I can now see that almost every time I tried to take a short-cut, every time I skimped on the work I knew needed to be done and tried to do it another “faster” way, I found myself with a failure on my hands.

            We all need to work on that work ethic thing again.

        2. @Poop Chute ::

          That Carlton post is not “unusual” at all. It’s written like crap by someone who is full of crap … and it links to a $15k per year magical mastermind. THINK poopcute … THINK.

      3. @Ryan Healy, oh, boo.

        Point taken on the for-profit universities. I saw that episode of Frontline and it’s good:

        That said, my two years reading biz books (AKA sales letters) & doing IM has given me my fill of this:

        “Being a perpetual student is a costly endeavor… get down to the business of using their education instead of acquiring more of it… the only difference between expensive Internet marketing courses and college education is… college costs more.”

        Here’s a difference or two:

        -IM courses make you poor in pocket & spirit, because you end up spending a day with KernDalePagan et al. You end up dumber & lonelier. And mad at yourself for both.

        -Going back to school gets you ACTUAL qualifications. (Tell me half Salty’s cred don’t come from being lawyerly.) It gets you access to mentors and millions of dollars of institutional resources, like labs, libraries, grants, technology, and staff. It can get you to a new city, show you new places, and mark a total change in your life’s path.

        *** Most important: school’s a readymade network of people on the way up, friends & colleagues. ***

        Even if you’re not BFFs, you get to share experiences. & in my experience, the best way to get a job interview is to know someone. Treat people well, help them out, and they’re more than willing to help you later.

        I, like many people, got into IM because I felt like all other paths were closed. Unfortunately, IM’s EXTREMELY isolating. A good antidote is people.

        Now, I freely admit higher ed has huge problems. Like teachers who only care to research, and rising tuition. Degrees that don’t turn into jobs. School debts (which I’ve never carried, not one dime). And the fact that some very smart people just don’t care for it. Like my best friend, a successful businessman who never went to college because school bored him.

        Yet it’s a different universe than an IM course. I know you don’t know me or my planned course of study– you’re just taking my comment as a soapbox to slag the for-profits, which they deserve. After all, they use the same high-pressure direct sales tactics as many of our favorite sociopathic gurus. And like the gurus, they’re not even accredited!

        But do spare me the anti-school meme, all cutting down on my last hope I’ve put off for 10 years. Especially after my heartfelt comment! What the crap, man.

        1. @The End of the Tunnel, My comment was not directed at you personally, but at anybody considering “going back to school.” I’ve seen it turn out badly for people, my own family members included.

          It seems like you’ve got a good plan, good direction, which is cool. Keep on keepin’ on! :-)

          The purpose of my comment was really to warn people about University of Phoenix and similar for-profit schools. The student debt can be oppressive, and it’s the hardest debt to discharge in a bankruptcy with the exception of taxes.

          So: My apologies if it came off as an attack on your plans because it was not intended to be one.


        2. @The End of the Tunnel & @Ryan Healy ::

          The “education is lame” meme is rampent out here in the Internet world … and it truly is some destructive bullshit. IMO … go get an education if you don’t have one … period.

          “the only difference between expensive Internet marketing courses and college education is… college costs more”

          No way. In fact I’d say this is more accurate :: “there is no comparison between expensive Interent marketing courses and a college education.”

          “Phil” {and many others like him} and I spent around the same amount on our respective “educations”. But I have two degrees to show for it … and a head full of information and experiences for which there is no substitute. Education … just in and of itself … is one of the greatest goods.

          George Washington University has been around since before the Civil War … and was the brain child of one George Washington. Even if I change paths 10 more times in my life … that degree will always have meaning to people and institutions all over the globe.

          “I was in Frank Kern’s underachiever mastermind” doesn’t have the same ring to it. In fact … it sounds insane and you most def can’t put it on your resume.

          Also … consider this Internet people :: even if you do get some kind of web business going without any formal qualifications or experience … it won’t last for long. Because the brainy people of the world … all these Madison Avenue fucks etc … they ain’t here yet because they are unhip conformist pussies. But they’ll get here … and pretty soon you’re going to be competing with EVERYONE … and the Internet will be exactly like the rest of the world. Don’t get trapped unprepared.

          Join Frank Kern’s Underachiever AFTER you get a degree in electrical engineering.

          Speech over.

          I also think the whole UoP thing :: and the financial aid scam as a whole … is totally diabolical. That Frontline was a real eye opener … and there has been some good coverage in the NYT lately too …

          … so definitely be careful no matter what you’re buying.

          1. @SD, thank you. Thanks more than you know.

            Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m out. Gotta research the research interests of all the profs at the programs I like so I can chat them up before I apply.

            Big 10 or ACC? Hmmm…

            1. @The End of the Tunnel, @Ryan Healy, @SD

              Education is strictly as good as (a) the quality of the educators and (b) the student’s ability to relate the education to their life & apply it.

              Ultimately, you could have 3 Phd’s, a law degree, and tenured professorship :: and still be a twat or scammer or lackluster bum.

              You can also be an uneducated (in the “traditional” sense) street kid and grow up to be a 7 figure net-worth do-gooder creating huge worldly value.

              The real key is to find someone / somewhere to learn how to do WHAT YOU WANT TO DO!

              If you want to be a lawyer… Go to a good law school. If you want to be a scammer… Go to Frank Kern et al. If you want to be a business owner / entrepreneur, apprentice with someone who’s been there.

              To avoid making educational mistakes, here is the simple litmus test to ensure you are going to learn from the right teacher :: Ask yourself ::

              Has this person achieved the type of success I want to achieve? Are they a high achiever in the field they’re teaching?

              Frauducts, for-profit fraudiversities (UofP), and even some highly accredited educational institutions fail to hold up to this simple litmus test.

              The more you INVESTIGATE, the less you’ll need to INVEST.

              The easiest way to be successful is to replicate the VERIFIABLE success of others. This applies to everything.

              Check their credentials!

              Doctor Mario

              1. @Doctor Mario ::

                “The easiest way to be successful is to replicate the VERIFIABLE success of others. This applies to everything.”

                Wrong. That won’t work anymore … that’s the easiest way to become mediocre … but good luck.

      4. @Ryan Healy, I completely agree with you on this, except for one small part.

        Ryan says: In my humble opinion, the only difference between expensive Internet marketing courses and college education is… college costs more

        The difference to me is that a college education gets you a degree which has certain real-world value. For example, a friend of mine went back to school and got a nursing degree. Now, she has a good-paying job that she likes.

        Internet marketing courses give you none of that. A degree opens doors. Internet marketing courses just open your wallet.

        That being said, your original point stands. In this day and age, people who go to school have to be careful in what school they select and what they major in and determine if it’s worth the cost.

  2. SD: Excellent highlighting and continuation of the pressure on the one point you’ve started hitting (your last post).

    The reason I was so pleased and excited about that last post is that you are now knocking the underpinning out from under the biggest reason these guys are ANYTHING, have ANYTHING and believe they have any influence over ANYTHING.

    Without their little circle jerk, they’re back to trying to pull in money like they tell most of their clients to do it.

    I saw you heading there when you started going after the side players — the bigger more active affiliates of the syndicate. This will remove MOST of them.

    SO much for that manufactured “social proof” when they stop getting the word out like they used to.


    1. @Poop Chute ::

      I read this right up until you said “the reason I was so pleased and excited” … and then I stopped.

      I wonder what your FBI Profiler will say that says about me.

  3. @End of Tunnel, I hope that you realize suicide is never the answer. Then you’ll ruin any and all future chances of getting back that 100k. Like it was already posted, start by going for the last bit of money you’ve been cheated out of, Perpetual Turds Formula. Once that’s in progress, the momentum may take a life of it’s own and you may be able to get back much more than $2000.

    I’ve also been scammed just like you, believing that I could make a better life for myself and loved ones so you’re definitely NOT alone. There are many more of us who are afraid to come out and talk about this, because we feel shame and guilt. The scammers tell us it’s our own fault. The psychology behind all this is just like pedophiles. Pedophiles use scare tactics, promises of shiny toys and freedom if only you do what they tell you to do. “It’s ok they say, this is how it’s supposed to be.” It happens to many more people than you probably realize.

    100k is a lot of money, it’s more than I’ve ever had, but at least you’ve still got your life and people who love you, a chance to start new with much more experience and wisdom this time around. That’s more than Colleen, Kirby and James have.

    Maybe in the future you could think about finding a way to turn all of this pain around into helping to prevent others to fall for the same pitfalls. You could author a book about your experiences. Self publishing is easy or

    You can also blog about it. That can help you feel like this all didn’t go to waste for nothing and maybe other people can benefit from your mistakes. You could end up making the world just that much better because of you. This idea could even end up being the very business you were meant to be in. Who knows.

    Lastly, please know you’re needed and loved in this world, even by people you’ve never met. Feel better soon.

      1. @Poop Chute, And — I re-read your comment, @@2+2 =(xy – C03)-111, and saw you were addressing @End of Tunnel…and yes yes yes. You were dead-on there, too. WRITE about it. Blog. Comment. Become an active spokesperson and know this: if you don’t get your $100,000 back, you’ll be helping OTHER people not fall into the same trap you did.

        That’s what I call REDEMPTION and you’ll be surprised by how good it makes you feel.

        Suicide is a win for them. Terrible sounding as that might be, it is. You go away and they’re no worse off either way. They still have your money AND more people to trick out of theirs.

        You’re going to be fine. Your eyes are now open. Think how much most people spend on a college education never to learn the first-hand knowledge (knowledge OTHERS NEED TO KNOW) you know have. Knowledge that can never be taken away.

        1. @Poop Chute, @math equation person or whatever, you all mean those kind words for Phil, not me.

          Good sentiments, though.

    1. @Rafael Marquez,

      I know, Rafa. Just having a little fun. And wondering whether anybody but you would know who the heck I was talking about.

    2. Rafa Marquez may as well contribute here :: cause he certainly isn’t contributing anywhere else. Ship him off to America with all the rest of the dead men walking.

  4. Salty,

    You forgot to highlight the 2 funniest comments in that looong string of comments:

    “@Markus Allen ::

    Of course it was me you nut-job! How else would it have happened? Magic? Yanik’s mind powers?

    I guess this our teary goodbye then. Good luck on your “mission” :: “Markus.”

    @Markus Allen ::

    Oh shit it happened again! This time it wasn’t me … I’m serious … it wasn’t! You must have pissed off the Crocheting gods or something. So so spooky …”

    I am grinning again after re-reading that. Nut-Job for sure!

    1. @Still Laughing ::

      I have since heard :: through a spiritual medium :: that Markus and Crocheting gods have come to some sort of tenuous peace … and that he is crocheting me a sweater using the “mark of the beast” loop-cross pattern.

  5. Great posts and thanks for exposing the syndicate. Can’t wait to learn more and see how it unfolds. I have a question for SD and everyone posting. If someone wanted to learn how to do Internet marketing, are there “any” people out there who are legit, honest, and ethical who teach internet marketing?

    It’s great to know who the con artists are so we can all avoid them like the land mines that they are, and I can’t wait to see these A-Holes go down in flames, but what I’d like to know is who you can learn internet marketing from that aren’t con artists. At the end of the day there are still people like me who’d like to improve my business by learning how to use the internet, but have no idea where to get honest, ethical, legitimate training at fair prices.

    I agree with Ryan Healy and the others posting completely…you’ve got to get off your ass and take action. You’ve got to make a lot of effort and be consistent. But if you don’t know what to do, or what actions to take, then you have to educate yourself first and then take that action on what you learn.

    So we are learning who the con artists are. Anyone willing to reveal who the “good guys/gals” are in this industry?

    1. @Luke L.,

      are there “any” people out there who are legit, honest, and ethical who teach internet marketing?

      This is like a meth addict asking “are there “any” people out there who are selling legit, honest, and ethical drugs that get you REALLY, REALLY HIGH? You know, like meth but without the side-effects?”

      Before you embark in any other “business opportunities” (aka scams), first you need to get sober. You need to fully understand how you and/or others have been suckered and why it these things are total scams.

      “Internet Marketing” itself is a misleading catch phrase, like “Syndicate” designed to hide the nature of the con game. THESE ARE NOT BUSINESSES and THIS IS NOT MARKETING. These are scams, plain and simple.

      Once you are sober, legit businesses are obvious but boring. Then you can make a rational decision about whether to engage in the 5-10 years of patient and persistent hard work with calculated risks to start a small entrepreneurial venture with little likelihood of success in a highly competitive market, while you keep your day job. (Best of luck!)

      1. @Duff, there are plenty of people who legitimately teach internet marketing. That is, how to use the Internet to do marketing for a business.

        What most people (and you) refer to as “Internet Marketing” is just an online version of the biz-op scams that have been around forever, and there’s no way to “legitimately” con people with bogus business opportunities.

        “5-10 years … little likelihood of success?”

        Now that’s just absurd. A real business with a real business plan doesn’t take 5-10 years to start. If you take the advice of some of Salty’s targets, sure – it’ll take that long *after* you get a second job just to pay off the credit card debts.

        People who succeed in business aren’t “outliers,” they’re just the people who were smart enough to plan, and willing to put in the work.

      2. @Duff,

        Thanks for the post but you’ve got me all wrong.

        For starters, I’m already sober. Secondly, I’m not a “biz op” seeker.

        I’ve owned my own business for 10+ years now, and it’s doing quite nicely. I’ve already paid the dues that everyone is talking about. I’m in a highly competitive market and have had a lot of success, so it can and does happen.

        I guess I need to rephrase so you understand better…I use the Internet to market my business and also to communicate and follow up with my clients. And like any business owner that’s worth a shit, I want to get better at using the Internet for my business because if I’m using the Internet for my business, why wouldn’t I want to get the most out of it?

        And even though there’s a bunch of con artists out there, I’m pretty sure there are people out there who aren’t con artists that can help me use the Internet for my business better than I am now.

    2. @Luke L., nah.

      If you must learn IM, do this:

      #1) get a book on SEO from the library or amazon or something

      #2) get a book on PPC from the library or Powell’s or something

      #3) get an OLD book on copywriting/conversion, like “Scientific Advertising” which is widely available free on the internet. Or “Tested Advertising Methods.” Anything from before WWII (seriously, those are the ones everyone steals from).

      That’s it. Everything else is based on those three things.

      That done, IGNORE everyone with a 10-step free report, IGNORE everyone who plugs you into an autoresponder sequence to spam you hard, IGNORE anyone who tries to sell you any service, or product, or membership site, or coaching, or ANYTHING.

      Until you need to outsource. Then buy a service (based on word-of-mouth recommendations from people you trust in your area), not someone to teach you how to do it.

      “Internet Marketing Education” is a joke. I don’t care who’s selling it. If $2000 is a fair price for a lot of web dev or SEO or PPC management, not for a course.

      1. @The End of the Tunnel, Uh…what YOU just said.

        Uncanny. I was just gonna write that!

        Start with a book or two in the right arena. $50 tops. READ and APPLY.

        So right-on. Most people hiring “consultants” and “coaches” are nowhere NEAR ready for a real one. Later…when you have REVENUE and a BUDGET for your business…maybe.

        1. @Poop Chute,

          Well duh.

          That’s the point. IM is for losers. Winners are the people running real businesses.

          IMers are the get-rich-quick-and-you-can-too morons who want the quick-fix magic happy sparkly rainbow unicorn poop pill that will take them to heaven right now, with kisses and twinkles.

          The model is inherently addictive, and so of course it attracts and scams addicts.

          This isn’t a coincidence, it’s a key feature of the machine.

          Anyone with a working nervous system is going to look at these sleazoid panty brains and avoid sharing any kind of enclosed space with them – or even handing them their mail address.

          But because the culture is addicted to Success[tm] and you’re no one if you don’t have the big shiny whatevers and all the sex you want and beautiful expensive things, there’s a ready supply of addicts.

          The problems start well before these crooks start their games. They’re just the obvious oozing sore that exposes the deeper infection.

    3. @Luke L.,

      You asked: “Are there ‘any’ people out there who are legit, honest, and ethical who teach internet marketing?” Sadly, answering your question on this particular blog is a double-edged sword.

      If anyone mentions a name they believe to be legit, they will likely be placed under the scrutiny of a harsh and unforgiving microscope. And you’ll get at least one other person tearing him/her down just as quickly and for whatever reason. Even for inane reasons.

      Sure, there is an jealous and resentful minority here who will never be happy. But there are many others who were victims of scams. And in either case, NO ONE will ever fit the bill of “legit” or “honest,” NO MATTER WHAT.

      Can you blame them? When a scammer hurts a few, it leaves a BAD TASTE in the mouths of many. Being “once bitten, twice shy,” we become naturally skittish and critical, and we have every right to be.

      So answering “is there anyone legit” is almost a non-sequitur. It will likely be highly criticised, no matter how legit it may be. Because legitimacy and honesty, particularly in the eyes of a scam victim, is VERY subjective.

      My suggestion? There are plenty of blogs out there who sing the praises of many a marketing teacher. Just make sure you investigate, and take everything — the good AS WELL AS THE BAD — with a mature, reasonable, and intelligent grain of salt. No pun intended, Salty. ;)

      Always DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE. No matter WHAT. No matter WHO. No matter WHERE. Find out what you can before you jump in, and balance the pros with the cons. Take the time to learn as much as you can. Don’t ever rush into a decision, and don’t ever be coerced into making one.

      “But I need to make a decision fast,” you say? If some seemingly “legit” marketer is pressuring you into buying by using some kind of fake scarcity ploy, then move back and move on. It’s NOT worth the risk. Chances are, if they HAVE to use manufactured scarcity to get you to buy, it’s a huge red flag, if you ask me.

      In the end, keep this in mind…

      A good, solid, legitimate, customer-focused information product will NEVER, ever be scarce. No matter what. (“Limited product launch” my ass!) Sure, the information may be timely. But it takes time and work to make money, just as it should take time (and yes, work) to make a decision to buy a training program that teaches it.

      1. @Name Unimportant, I think one commenter said it best in response to this same question, which has been asked time and time again, and that is:

        “Don’t ask the exterminator what makes a good pet.”

        That’s really not the purpose of this blog. And it should not be, because you simply can’t permanently certify ethics, especially in a changing world with constant temptation.

    4. @Luke L.,

      Early this year I took nominations on my blog for the best ethical Internet marketers and it just got crazy.

      After I started getting nominations, I realized what a difficult undertaking it would be to create any kind of authoritative list.

      There are guys I used to respect who I no longer respect… and surely there are good honest people out there I would totally overlook.

      “Name Unimportant” gave some good advice. Just do your due diligence before shelling out your hard-earned money.

      And if you’re going to buy anything, buy inexpensive information products — there’s much less risk involved.


      1. @Ryan Healy, And to add my 2 cents, by inexpensive information product, I mean book. $20 or so gets you all the “information” you need.

        1. I forgot to add something here.
          I don’t like “lists of honest people’. Who knows if they’ll stay honest? I think it’s better to know the BS scam tactics and then decide for yourself if the person is a scammer or legit.

          Since I think you should buy books, I once made a list of some of the usual signs of a BS artist.

          I’m glad to blogs like these. Before this one, it was hard to find information about a lot of these guys outside the echo chamber.

    5. @Luke L. ::

      Those were great answers from everyone else … so I’ll just leave it that. That question gets asked about every third post … but for the reasons mentioned it doesn’t get answered. Additionally :: I think it would be an inappropriate conflict of interest if I endorsed any products in this area. Criticizing one thing in an effort to promote another is pretty unseemly behavior.

      But I’ll also throw my weight behind … books … libraries … practice … patience … and keeping your credit card in your wallet unless you are paying for quantifiable services.

  6. It is a shame that these guys are so dishonest. There are really good people in this industry that actually care and want to help people but these scum bags ruin it for everyone. I hope people seek out the real teachers and for the syndicate… Well their days are numbered. I hope everyone here exposes their BS.

    1. @Keren r,

      I agree with you. I just wish there was an easy way for people to know who the real teachers are, but based on what I’m reading, that’s pretty much impossible to determine unless you devote a lot of time and energy to due diligence, etc.

      1. @Luke L., ask for *references* – not testimonials – and fact check what *they* tell you too.

      2. @Luke L., Basically – join meetup groups on marketing in your area. Find real books (like from a bookstore) on online marketing. Read them. Apply them. It’s too easy to blow smoke up people’s skirts. Getting published (really published) is harder.

  7. I’m curious what the Federal Trade Commision would have to say about all this, since these are some fairly serious crimes, and the FTC and Justice Dept has been less than lenient of business fraud these days…well if you can even call what these con-men do as a business. These guys have violated so many interstate commerce laws, it is disappointing that the Justice Dept hasn’t been looking closer at these scams.

    To the folks that lost a lot of money to these fuckers, I’d like to think a class action civil suit might be of help, but unless the gov’t starts investigating criminal complaints, it would be a long shot. So..*wink wink* contact the FTC and Justice Dept and give them all the nice juicy details.

    Thanks fucking God for the Droid!

    1. @Jeff Rossries ::

      “Become an INTERNET MARKETING MASTER in a Single weekend”

      … just $3000

      Oh and since we are already on the subject … $3000 will cover tuition for a whole fucking semester at many super great state universities.

  8. This email just in:


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    Click below to see exactly what I’ll be teaching:

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    1. Anybody called Victoria at that number? Maybe to ask her how she feels about being part of “the syndicate?”

  9. I’ve hit the motherload.

    Someone very high up in Filsaime’s organization has sent me tons of damning evidence. Filsaime’s private emails. Chat logs. Accounting records. You name it.

    Obviously I need to be careful what I do with this. If I send it to the FTC I think it will be too much. They won’t act on it. There is a TON of extremely damning stuff in here (the reality of this guy is far worse than any of you have imagined. I was literally shaking from anger and revulsion reading some of this stuff. He is double-dealing people constantly and bragging about it. I think he’s a psychopath), but I don’t think I should send it all in one swoop.

    I was thinking about posting it online, but is that really a good idea? Can I get in trouble for doing that?

    I need some help here people. I’m staying anonymous right now for obvious reasons. Salty, can I send it to you? Will you keep my real name private? Can someone trace the documents back to me?

    I’m seriously afraid of this guy after reviewing this stuff. I’ve only seen a fraction of what he gave me, but what I’ve seen is terrifying.

    Something needs to be done about him, but I also have a family and don’t want to be hurt. I think I’ve gotten in way over my head. I’ve been talking to this guy for weeks and said I’d do something about this. Now that I think about it after the fact I’m more than a little afraid.

    The insider is obviously scared too otherwise he’d go public himself. I need to protect him too. He’s a db for working with Filsaime, but at least he wants to reform.

    Advice? I’m excited, but also freaking out a little. I’m not an idiot. I know how dangerous this is. That’s why I’m taking every precaution I can.

    Deep Throat

    1. @Deep Throat ::

      Sounds intriguing! Email me. I will absolutely protect your identity. In fact … if you don’t want any trouble … don’t tell me who you are and I won’t try to figure it out. Then the info will get out there … but you’ll be out of the danger loop.

  10. Yes, I too have handed Mr. Kern my money. And yes, I got Traffic Secrets 2 as a free bonus. I was pretty sure it was a dumb thing to do when I did it, but I considered it a learning experience.

    I didn’t have to max out my credit card to get it – truth is I don’t even have a credit card. I just wasted a few weekends doing overtime at my real job to pay for it.

    There was some good info in Traffic Secrets, but as others have pointed out, you can get just as good information by going to Amazon and buying a few books, or the library. As a certified bookaholic I always pick Amazon.

    But many others couldn’t afford it but bought it anyway. I used to see comments on their sales blogs of people saying how they really hoped this latest greatest thing would help them make some money because they were about to lose their house and they didn’t know what to do. It made me sick to see it.

    Making a bunch of low quality scraped content websites and trying to trick Google into sending you visitors so you can get a few pennies from Adsense is NOT a business. It’s a game. And the folks at Google have educations. Lot’s of education. They’ll win the game. They’re a lumbering giant so it may take them awhile to get around to it, but they will win. But that’s what a lot of the gurus suggest.

    There is value in all this Internet Marketing stuff for real business owners. You know, those people in town that have real stores and real services. They don’t know how to use the Internet to market their business. I’ve built websites for some of my local businesses. Once they have it, they have no idea what to do with it. It becomes just another brochure. That has value, but it could be much more.

    That’s why I’ve studied Internet Marketing – because I want to help the local folks use this tool better.

    I won’t go so far as to call the guru guys evil. I don’t know them, they might be fine folks. But most of their stuff is of little value to the people running “real businesses.” None of us that bought from them were forced to do so. They made their pitch and we could have ignored it. $2000 for a slicked up version of a $20 book is too much, but we could have said no.

    I have to trust you Mr. Droid about the legalities of their little Syndicate thing. As you suggested, I studied electrical engineering in college. If it is as bad as you say – go get em Salty.

    1. @Joe Mudd ::

      Thanks for the comment Joe. I’ll just say that while no one is “forced” to buy … no one really chooses to buy either. A “choice” assumes that you have the full information about the product … that you’re not being intentionally misled.

      Their “sales techniques” are more properly labeled manipulation tactics … and their “customers” more properly labeled victims.

      1. @SD,

        Rad post this time…this post feels to be tapping the primary artery of hellishness perpetrated by the chronic and massive deception being perpetrated on those who “have dreams, and hope for a better and more empowered path in life” /* read: independence on all fronts*/

        If we keep knocking bricks out from under the gurus feet, do you think their Tower of Babylon will someday fall? I confess that is one of my “dreams.” ;) There is too much “confusion of tongues” between the predators and their prey in IM. We need to sell everyone a Babel Fish (ummm…no, no Yahoo!…the original ;), that would give them a leg up on IM scams. The “Fish” would emit a high pitched shriek when a F*cking Liar was nearby (in my own private fantasy world ;)

        I predict the victims will awaken, as from a slow and bitter slumber, upon which they gained nothing but find they have been robbed on many levels of their being – as others have clearly pointed out – much like waking up “missing a kidney.”

        Liar Crusher

        1. @Liar Crusher,

          Naive. NOTHING will happen to these criminals until someone with evidence brings it to the proper authorities and gets THEM involved.

    2. @Joe Mudd, This is the best quote I’ve read for a while, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with regards some of the crap that gets passed off as “teaching” nowadays:

      “Making a bunch of low quality scraped content websites and trying to trick Google into sending you visitors so you can get a few pennies from Adsense is NOT a business. It’s a game. And the folks at Google have educations. Lot’s of education. They’ll win the game.”

      1. @Dan Thompson, very true – my inbox is overflowing with emails promising the next best thing to make millions for me while I sleep (in a previous post on this site {Kilstein’s Beach Millions} I decided my next info product is going to be the Thousand Dollar Throne – make money while sitting…well, you get the idea).

        Your point here and the one on your current blog post is accurate in my opinion – I’ll quote from your blog if you don’t mind:


        “I’ve realized that there’s only so much information you need to get started as an online marketer, so once you have that basic understanding the only thing that’s stopping you is yourself, if you have a basic understanding of how things work then get out there and put your plans into action, free yourself from the shackles of overpriced crap!”

        I think a lot of people are finally waking up to the fact that most of the courses / programmes being sold are absolutely full of crap, and that they are being conned left right & centre. Sites like this one are showing people the other side of the coin, and it isn’t shiny.

        1. @Nikki, Hi Nikki, small world!

          I’m not sure if people are suddenly waking up and realizing that the majority of IM products are junk, I think a lot of people will have come to that conclusion in the past, but it’s like a conveyor belt.

          To realize that a lot of the products are crap, you first need to buy them, which at some point I’m sure everyone posting on here has done.

          When you’ve bought a few products and you are still not a super cool billionaire, you come to the conclusion that maybe you’d be better off keeping the money in your pocket, and you stop buying.

          But that doesn’t stop someone else coming onto the start of the conveyor belt and going through the same process again, each person on the conveyor belt ends up giving money to “the syndicate” in one way or another until they fall off the end, by the time they’ve fallen off the end “the syndicate” isn’t worried because there’s plenty of new people to replace them in the system.

          So my point – I don’t think the opinions expressed on this blog are anything new, I’m sure people that have come to the end of the conveyor belt have been feeling like it for years, but this blog has helped publicize what’s wrong with the industry (can we even call it that?) on a much larger scale than anyone else has been able to do in the past, which can only be a good thing.

          1. @Dan Thompson, yep, funny that! (Small world).

            A lot of people are looking for the next get-rich-quick scheme, and would rather pay $2000 to get the keys to the world’s riches allegedly! than spend the time and hard graft actually studying anything that might actually teach the *hows* of creating an online business.

            Unfortunately, there are no short cuts. But that doesn’t stop people falling for the hype – as you’ve said, we’ve all bought things before, even if it’s just a $7 ebook, because we thought it would teach us something useful.

            The appearance of SD though and the fact that so many people post here about the scams they’ve been through and the times they’ve been ripped off means that it’s been happening a great deal more than a lot of us would have previously realised. SD is providing a platform for people to share their tales of being extorted & it can’t help the scammers that SD has better SEO than they do. That’s one way of helping to inform the public that due diligence is needed with *every* purchase – not just when you buy a used car, or a home, or something else offline, but in the online world as well.

            It’s sad to see people get sucked into this – people that do enter the industry via these channels are then taught that those in the Syndicate are like gods, and so they lap up everything that the Syndicate spew out. They then use their own lists to promote the hyped-up crap, and then lose all respectability and credibility. I’ve ended up on so many people’s lists but I rarely read any of the emails – just the few names that have provided useful (and free) content previously. But even then, I can see some of them have sold out & are promoting crap – even they fall for the dubious (lack of) charms of the Syndicate.


            Personally, I love browsing around here, it’s educated me a great deal and it’s all been for free. I just hope other people find this and give it all some thought before splashing out $2000 on a dream (nightmare).

            As other people have commented, you can find the information that they sell in books in bookstores (or Amazon, or your preferred online book retailer) – but that means that you have to actually do the work & there are no promises of magic unicorns.

  11. Re: The Education/IM Marketing discussion…

    Aside: @SD, GREAT post…

    Aside: Props to @Cosmic Connie, whose new verbiage for scumbags I really enjoyed…selfish-help was my fave, as it really encapsulates their true agenda…

    Obviously a bricks-and-mortar style education(and I say style because many Universities have gone online with their curriculums, which is viable and recognized nowadays as a do-able method for busy people) is priceless, BUT…and this is a “but” as big as J-Lo’s, you have to sort of “intercept the ball before it has been served.”

    IOW, you have to fashion your education trajectory and interests (passion, fields of interest) around what will allow you to utilize those gifts in the real world for a good piece of time in a way that allows you to thrive (okay, thrive…I know, I’m reaching in an economy like this, but “surviving” seems so….well, not as it was meant to be, let’s just say).

    In *more* other words, you have to have the foresight to see where that education will take you…and that means predicting the future…and good luck with that, these days! Now I am not saying you need to become an all-seeing Swami /*I’ll leave that to the IM douchebags*/, but the more instinct you have and the greater your foresight and flexibility with your resulting education, the better.

    I would suggest to anyone considering a field of pursuit for college to go interview 10 successful people in the field you are considering and ask them the Tough Questions.

    If you like IM, go learn Marketing in College. That is a fascinating field. BUT, (yep, there it is again, Folks) go do interviews and see if it is really going to be the thing for you, or if you recoil in horror at the hours, the competitiveness, if you have to sell your soul or not, if the industry is even going to have a shred of a pulse in a decade or two.

    I have recently counseled those in my inner circle of closest friends, one of whom is running a successful online business but sinking absolutely terrifyingly freakish hours into doing it, even while his immediate family was in the hospital, to consider pushing “online” business tot he side and focusing on having other means of livelihood that are more real-world.

    Realize, the Internet sort of sprung up and took off like a bullet train…and nobody has really stopped to question, “Why?” Nobody really has any clue as to what we’re all doing on here, except this of course (LOL).

    Yes, we can share info, buy things, make some money.

    So f*cking what, I say.

    You never know, someday soon the world could just wake up and go “F— this Internet. Let’s go do something truly interesting.” Will it happen> It could. Do you know for sure it won’t? Betcha don’t.

    Now is the time to NOT get further into IM, but to start getting your head wrapped around what is possible in the real world. Dabble in the online world, use it to point and support your business ventures, but don’t hang your sole/soul success in the online world. That is probably more dangerous than satanic worship right now. Oh wait, the Gurus already exist. Too late with that metaphor, aye?

    SD is right. The real education is a better bet. Just make sure you don’t learn something so frivolous and arcane and unusable that you *waste* the money you invest. Dig deep in yourself for what you want to do for the next 10 or 20…sprout a pair and go get in front of those in the biz that are making it happen for real and find out what it takes *for real* before you go on a stoned vision quest and wind up with a useless degree and debt on top of it.

    The bottom line was made by someone/those whose moniker(s) I have already forgotten (sorry, guys…you know who you are ;), “you gotta USE what you’ve got.”

    The bottom of the bottom line (it really is all about Bottoms here tonight, isn’t it! Luck of the draw, I suppose) – or the Litmus Test for IM is this: If you can’t take what you know right now and make it earn you AT LEAST $100 + a day – and I mean YOU ARE EARNING THAT BY TOMORROW!!) – you had best shitcan IM altogether or at least put it on a shelf and bring LIFE into the foreground and start focusing on it again FAST.

    I have a bad feeling about this whole Internet/IM thing…and people are starting to catch on and the disillusionment is beginning to occur…get off the train BEFORE it crashes. DON’T sink another penny into this IM thing. Get back to real life. That is how it has sustained for eons. That’s the formula. Work with it.

    Mass hysteria over something, or anything (IM/Internet), doesn’t mean it has some kind of magical value.

    SD is right. The whole gig is Already flooding over and glutted. In short, when you “set up a website,” you have just walked into a room with about 20 million people in it. Now how on earth will you be heard above that kind of din.

    Doesn’t it make more sense to do something tangible, real, with real potential? There are books on thinking up a new career…one that could be supported with a real education, no matter how “creative” the entrepreneur.

    WTF is up with cupcakes all of a sudden? You never saw them and now they are freaking everywhere…in their own stores. LMAO…

    Still, IM and the Internet are something to push aside for entertainment purposes and you should set spending limits each month for anything IM…like $20, and only if it can be proven to make money within that same month or you get your money refunded!!

    The IM’ers want your money. They are hosting salvation from and upon an unstable platform. The world economy ain’t going to get better IM’ing, Folks. You will only get poorer on every front…which will lead to feeling more hopeless and giving up before you even begin to look at your real potential and bring that into the world.

    In the end all that matters is that you USE what you have got, whether that is a fifth grade education or a Masters Degree. Lincoln was self-taught – as in President Lincoln.

    So, forget the blowhards – and I do mean that literally, with IM gurus, and pretend you are a small penis – men and women alike.

    What really matters every minute of every day is what you choose to DO with yourself that matters. Int he beginning and in the end, that will be ALL that matters, because that is what will define you.

    IM is a bag of great-sounding promises delivered by con men and liars. That doesn’t change reality. You can. It’s up to you if you choose to keep gambling on certain failure /*IM*/, but I’d rather see you bet your efforts on real investments in yourself and your (real) future – ‘cuz it ain’t in IM. It’s not. Sorry. Suck it up. Go get shitfaced. Sleep it off. Get up and get your ass (an all-bottoms evening, everyone!!) on a train that is going somewhere real.

    DISCLAIMER: Long-winded idealism can not be attributed to me, for I was asleep when this response was being written…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…….that said, Get Off The IM Train With Your Money!!!

    P.S. I just personally HATE to see traincars careening off cliffs loaded with (broke) innocent passengers on them…ya’ know?! Freewill…what can I do about it? YOU can do everything about it.

    Avoid University of Phoenix, just make sure you know where your college-traincar is heading so you don’t wind up going over the cliff by sticking yourself with an obsolete degree the moment you graduate.

    WARNING: The Internet is now flooded. Please strap on your lifejackets, cry over the money it floated out of your wallet for IM “courses” that were too on fire to resist, ans swim your punk ass back to the real world. The Taj Mahal didn’t get built in cyberspace. Do the math. GET OFF THE BOAT!!!!

    P.P.S. SD is right. having a JD (“lawyer degree”) is one of THE most highly employable and valuable degrees to have. Add an MBA in Finance and you can cut across A LOT of the world with that combo. Still, it’s a LOT of flippin’ education, and the economy is bobbing and weaving like Lindsay Lohan at a “Pin the Tail on the Dipshit” ball.

    Get out and get in front of some people and grill them. Take them for coffee, or lunch, and put the screws to them (okay, not literally, guys….but if the mood strikes you ;) before you go in ANY direction. You have to get in front of unbiased people.

    Heck, try writing to some of the the websites bigwigs you come across and see how much they are pulling down without a huge team…and ONLY from online enterprise. Not much, I’ll bet, without a real-world-fed following and an online learning portal for a bricks-and-mortar firm. The Internet is changing rapidly. It’s unstable. Get off the boat! Build on dry land. Use your head. Follow the successes of the past and head for your own unique future. How? Blend the two worlds. We have “professional skateboarders” now…WTF…so don’t tell me you can’t think of something for the real world that will be a zillion times better than being a slave 20 hours a day to a glowing box (like my friend with his IM biz).

    Like Nike says: Just Do It. Never Give Up. Or They Win…and they aren’t worth it.

    F*ck IM. Get back to a real life. In the end, you won’t wish you had IM’ed more. Are ya’ feelin me? /*I have no idea WTF that means, but it seemed to fit into the conjecture…whatever the f—that means ;) */

    ALL IM sites and “teachers” should have a stamp on their sites that says to innocent consumers “Don’t try being this big of a douche at home. It is hazardous to your life, health, wallet and life, in general.”

    Liar Crusher

    1. @Liar Crusher, Beyond the fact that I love compliments, you just wrote a whole book’s worth of wisdom in that comment. Oh, I know SD says books are totally gay (not that there’s anything wrong with that), but for reasons both personal and professional, I retain a fondness for that obsolescent medium.

      LC, I like the way you summarized the very real evidence — perhaps “handwriting on the wall” would be a better term — that the IM cash cow is drying up. Over-saturation, government intervention, and people waking up to how scammy so many of the IM’ers are — geez, it was fun while it lasted. And yes, the higher education industry has its own categories of scam, but is still more likely to offer measurable real-world benefits than is the latest get-me-rich-quick scheme from the IM’ers.

      Meanwhile, back in Whimperley, Texas, Mr. Fire has published the rare guest post on his blog, this one from none other than Dan Kennedy. (BTW, Kennedy is reportedly the person who first came up with the term, “The universe loves speed,” though Mr. Fire has since apparently adopted that as his own.)

      According to Kennedy, the secret to attracting unlimited wealth is to rid yourself of the belief that wealth is finite. You must completely do away with the notion that it is even possible to get “more than your fair share.” Writes Dan:

      If you believe wealth is unlimited, there’s no such thing as a share of it. Everybody’s share is unlimited. There’s nothing to have a share of. There’s only unlimited. Your fair share is all you can possibly attract. As is anybody and everybody else’s.

      In business, there’s a similar idea: market share. But again that presumes a finite, limited market, instead of an infinitely expandable market.

      In the New Economy, market share is one of the most antiquated of concepts…

      Of course Kennedy is far from the first or only person to speak in terms of unlimited wealth or resources. Unlimited wealth (however one may define wealth) is the core marketing concept of most Law of Attraction and related New-Wage shticks and frauducts. It does, however, seem a bit contradictory to the business model of the IM Syndicate, as laid out in Salty’s previous post. If there really is enough of something for everyone to have as much as he or she desires (or, in some cases, if there is even *something* to begin with), there should be no talk of banding together and destroying the competition. Why bother? In an endlessly abundant universe there wouldn’t be any need for competition, would there?

      Or maybe I’m just thinking in an Old Economy way. That probably ‘splains why I am not rich and Dan is.

      I imagine that in many ways Dan Kennedy is far above that Syndicate fray and would, if asked about it, probably claim that its members are also operating on false beliefs about wealth. Yet I seem to recall, from previous discussions on this very blog, that Mr. Kennedy is also a…um…person of interest. Oh, yeah, here it is, right here:

      Somehow a song from the old Pee-Wee Herman show comes to mind: “Connect the dots, la-la-la-la…”

    2. @Liar Crusher & Cosmic Connie ::

      Great points!

      … and Dan Kennedy is as innocent as a dove … who has become a zombie … stopped flying … grown to 100 times its natural size … has worms for teeth … and feeds only on blood and rotten milk.

    3. @Liar Crusher,

      Interesting thoughts, though I disagree on some points. Internet is a medium. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s no different, except in scale and reach, than when TV was first introduced.
      The get-rich-quick/get-thing-quick/get-happy-quick scams were popular with mail, then popular with phones, then popular with TV, and now popular with the internet.

      Internet based companies and businesses are no more and no less legit than offline businesses – the point however, is WHAT IS THEIR PRODUCT/SERVICE?

      An offline business built upon putting people in ‘downlines’ of auto-shipped miracle juices is just as D-baggish as Kern/Deiss combo products.

      Similarly, an online business set up by a stay at home mom who sews cloth diapers is not less legit than your local ‘Motherhood’ store.

      Your ‘degree’ may or may not be used online or offline if you’re stupid about it. It may leave you in more debt than imaginable. ALL Education – college based or not runs the risk of eating up your time and leaving you in debt. The big diff. between Universities and IM courses is:
      A) The Marketing and ‘psycho’ tricks.
      B) The choice.

      An enterprising mind can take the most basic information and create an online business out of the small tid-bits of information. The ‘numb-skulled’ won’t succeed at ANYTHING no matter how many millions you pour into their ‘education’.

      My point being – there are things that are right for some, and not-so-right for others. Having the wisdom to choose between the two is something everyone should learn in elementary school. And no, I don’t mean ‘school’ per se. It is a parent’s job to teach their kids this.

      Meanwhile, back to the internet point – no, it’s not going anywhere. It’s a new medium. TV Ad agencies and marketing firms charge THOUSANDS for a 30 second ad development. No reason that online marketing cannot be worth that given the results it can bring.

      Of course, as I said before – the key is to separate hyped and fake ‘information’ from real products and services.

      1. @advancedNoob, the numb-skulled succeed all the time. I’ve seen thousands of complete fools in great jobs, hired by fraternity/sorority brothers/sisters. Not the kind of cartel the Droid is interested in, but they operate on the same principle.

        1. @Unicorn Army,

          Well yeah – but you know what I’m referring to – even Obama made it to the highest office – there’s always connections and schemes and what not.
          My point though is that the answer here is not as simple as lock up the baddies. There are a 100 other Kerns waiting in the arms to get their claws in the second they get a chance.

          BTW, I find this HILARIOUS! Look at it this way – an idiot (Kern in this case) comes on the scene and goes – hey, I could form a hidden cartel and make loads more money!
          But the reality is that this was already debated centuries ago – which is why anti-cartel laws exist.
          So while the ‘genius in his own mind’ thinks he’s discovered some secret that no one thought of. He’s really just started doing something that we’ve known to be an unethical method to mess up a free market and make money.

          He’s just so ignorant that what he thought was a ‘hidden’ way, was an obvious way that has been banned for being so obviously anti-consumer and anti-competition.

  12. So Salty, we had a conflict a few months ago about Rich Scheffren. I told you that he was no longer involved with the syndicate and no longer promoted their launches and they no longer promoted him.

    Have you found evidence to the contrary? Is he still a part of it? If so, I’m quitting his program.


    PS. Pagan used to live right above the 3rd street promenade in Santa Monica, CA, apartment 110. I wouldn’t call that a shithole, but it’s no place for a guy who says he earns $20 million a year.

    1. @Ross Jeffries, I heard Schefren wasn’t paying affiliates. A few people I know promoted something of his, sending him a combined 20,000 or so leads, made a lot of sales and never received a check.

    2. @Ross Jeffries,

      Hey you hated Eben Pagan so much but you used his moving-the-free-line concept on your Youtube channel (i think by now you must have removed it already).

      By the way, your Swedish ex gf is hot. How did you get her anyway? Don’t tell me you used your creepy NLP patterns on her lolz.

      1. @Dimitri,

        My Swedish ex is certainly hot, though how you purport to know that is beyond me.

        Yes I used my EFFECTIVE(not “creepy”) NLP with her. She still loves my NLPness to this day.

        Man som alsker svenksa kvinnor!


        1. @Ross Jeffries, you have to use NLP manipulation to get women?? That’s pathetic and shows your lack of ability to just be yourself and get to know a woman for the person she is. Why not just skip over all the NLP and just buy a hooker directly? Much easier and less time consuming.

    3. @Ross Jeffries ::

      I believe that our conflict was about whether or not your valiant hero had used a boiler room to poach some of his customers.

      What difference does it make if he’s in The Syndicate now or not? You can see his interaction with it plain as day. I promise you this … people don’t leave because they suddenly become moral. If you have that kind of courage in you … then you don’t join a crew that calls themselves “The Syndicate” in the first fucking place. People go in and out based on the petty conflicts of small men with found money.

      I don’t get you RJ. You obviously understand manipulation … so how do you allow it to happen to yourself? You should have quit his “program” a whole fucking lifetime ago.

      1. @SD,

        Ah, you see Salty, I can point out the specific, measurable value for the exact methods Rich has taught me to use. So really, I don’t see how I’m being “manipulated”.

        More to the point, I get access to Rich 4 times a month. I can talk to him-not a flunkie, apprentice, etc. In my experience, “frauds” don’t want to talk to their customers unless you are paying a HUGE fee, and they keep access difficult.

        And, nearly a year ago, Rich was the first person to mention”the Syndicate” to me in a phone conversation I had during one of the coaching call in sessions. HE brought it up and talked to me about why he got out of it.

        I can tell you that I have made my own mistakes about whom I have promoted in the past and that it is possible to learn from them and do things in a better way.


  13. This is this mornings email:

    P.S. During this rare session with Rich, you’ll
    find out how he’s been able to transform so many
    Internet marketers (even opportunity seekers) into
    Entrepreneurial Millionaires…like he did for…

    – John Carlton
    – Mike Filsaime
    – Joel Comm
    – Brad Fallon
    – Tellman Knudson
    – Ryan Deiss

    Yeah Ross, you know what you are talking about…NOT!
    Your boy just promoted Mike Filsaime. So go have gay sex with him.
    You are a failure.

  14. Dear Salty:

    There is a scammer trying to appropriate your efforts in order to sell more scam.

    Apparently, this scammer has realeased a video denouncing other scammers.

    It seems to me that he’s referring to the “storm” on this website—where we the people are finally discovering the truth about the “gurus”.

    I am reproducing below the email I received from Brad Callen.

    The scammer from Thailand is: Greg Jacob.

    He’s selling more of the same old: “I’ll make you rich online”

    As my eyes opened, I realized one thing about those business opportunities.

    1-How many times has Warren Buffet offered to teach his investing methodology to other investors? I am sure, if he did, then his shareholders wouldn’t be happy.

    2-How many times the owners of Google have written about their proprietary methods for making Google the top-dog in Pay-Per-Click and spawn a little army of copy cats—-

    If you can read the email I received from Brad Callen, in the light of the Syndicate Post—-you’ll be laughing a lot and think, “Does this guy think I am an idiot or what?”

    Here’s the email from Brad Callen who’s pushing Jacob’s frauduct. Feel free to edit the link.

    Hopefully, this post will discourage those who were thinking of buying Greg Jacob’s frauduct.

    This past week there’s been a whole lot of
    “stir” in the internet marketing community. I’ve not emailed you
    about it, as I know your time is valuable… and to be honest,
    “stir” in any community is usually just a fancy way to say “waste of
    your valuable time” :-)

    Anyway, now that things have settled down a little, let me tell you what
    it was all about, because it will benefit you.

    A guy named Greg Jacobs (you may have heard of him. He’s an internet
    marketer and actually owns an entire hotel in Thailand) released a
    video exposing, well, pretty much every single internet marketing
    “scammer”. And yes, some so-called “gurus” were called out.

    The reason for doing this was because he’s fed up with the pattern
    that nearly everyone wanting to get making money on the internet
    is stuck in… He lives thousands of miles away from the U.S, so
    he really could care less about calling some “gurus” out.

    The pattern I’m talking about is this…

    New product comes out. People buy it. People do nothing. New
    product comes out. People buy it. People do nothing. New product
    comes out. People buy it. People do nothing…

    I’ve seen it a billion times. 99% of people do ABSOLUTELY nothing
    with the courses/products they buy. You know it. I know it.

    In the video, Greg publicly stated that he wants to get people
    “off the treadmill” and into a profitable-sustainable long term
    income. To do this, he has created a MASSIVE program called
    “The Assassination”

    Obviously, this isn’t an easy thing to do… and probably the reason
    not a single person has done this, to this degree, before.

    In this insanely HUGE system, Greg includes:


    1. The Assassins Academy (8 weeks of training where
    you are hand held through building your team, creating
    a product, building your site and taking your business live…)

    2. The Assassination 18 DVD set (Fully edited recording of
    the original complete 5 day event where underground ninjas
    spilled their guts on what really works)

    3. The Assassins Handbook (A complete step by step guide
    to building a real sustainable online business, including a
    bonus section on traffic generation techniques anyone can do)

    4. The Anatomy of a 7 Figure Launch (where Greg shares all
    his secrets and the exact formula he used to make 7 figures
    in 7 days, and how you can copy it)

    5. Membership to The Assassins Guild (A networking platform
    that allows you to find like minded Assassins with complimentary
    skills sets, plus access to additional bonuses to get you started)

    6. Life Time Access to FusionHQ (The legendary software that makes
    it possible to build an entire online business without a programmer
    or a single line of code)

    If you’ve ever realized that “owning your own” Digital product
    is the way to long term sustainable income, then you know
    that THE ASSASSINATION is the system that you NEED for your
    sustainable growth on the Internet.


    It really is a complete business in a box because Greg will teach

    -How to research your niche
    -How to find partners and like minded team members
    -How to Create your own digital product
    -How to setup sales processes to maximize your ROI
    -How to Launch your Product like a ROCKSTAR!

    It’s not like other products where they give you the material and
    you fend for yourself. With this one, you are guaranteed to come
    out at the end with your product and website up and ready to
    accept orders… PLUS you’ll have all of the traffic generation
    info to get buyers to your website!

    Anyway, I won’t beat a dead horse with this. The course is AWESOME.
    and you’ll be glad you invested in it. Greg is waiting inside…


    The end :-)

    Brad Callen
    Bryxen Software, Inc.
    P.S. Oh, the only problem with this is that there are a VERY
    limited amount of slots in the Coaching program and for Licenses of
    FusionHQ, meaning that this is a limited time launch. Most likely
    today only and then Greg will pull down the page. You need to
    reserve your place before someone else takes it from you… That’s
    all. Go here to read more about it:

    Note: Affiliate link in email.

    Bryxen Software, Inc.
    2159 Glebe Street, Suite 270, Carmel, IN 46032

  15. The only reason Greg Jacobs is focusing on his “insanely HUGE system” The Assassination, is because his WP Mage system (which I spent Lots of cash on to get started) last year—is NOT making money for people. Just check out the WP Mage forum. Not much money is being made there as promised…

    Looks he had to think of a new way to generate some quick ca$h flow… The Assassination is twice the price at $1997 until it doubles in price SOON…

  16. So…

    Who’s going to do something about all this?

    Salty, you are a lawyer.

    There have got to be other lawyers reading this or people trained in or connected with law enforcement.

    Who is going to step up and contact the proper authorities with the evidence that you have in hand?

    I remember that somewhere on the blog, the complaint/settlement against Irwin Kern was posted. At the top of that was the name of several of the FTC attorneys, including their contact emails and phone numbers.

    Ok. We’ve heard the evidence. WHO IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING?

    These guys aren’t going away just because of this blog. They are like roaches: unless you stomp them to bits they will continue to re-invent themselves and find new and naive people to suck the life out of.


    Salty, as an attorney and an officer of the court, WHY DON’T YOU GET THE BALL ROLLING ON CONTACTING THE AUTHORITIES?

    You’ve got the most evidence assembled and you can easily get the contact info of the right people.

    Hell, why don’t you even organize a class-action lawsuit?

    I don’t know anyone in any of these agencies or I’d do it myself.


    P.S. As a nice bonus, do remember that once an investigation is started by the FTC/SEC etc the IRS almost always jumps in to see if there is any money to be collected. So get the ball rolling!

  17. Please take offense Ross, but you kinda look like a roach.

    I’m sure your skinny ass with a big mouth has been stomped plenty of times. Your attitude and personality are totally disgusting. Combined with your extremely ugly looks, I can see why women avoid you and why you are bitter, lonely, and have no offspring.

    It’s pathetic you come here trying to act like one of the “good guys” when the reality is YOU WISH you were Eben. Jealous bitch! Someone who peddles “weasel phrases”… really classy.

    I get tired of reading people telling Salty (begging Salty) to do more than he already is. And what do these people do, NOTHING. Just sit on their asses doing nothing. But that’s what society is all about these days, people sitting on their asses waiting for government or someone else to do everything for them.

    Ross boi, if you’re so desperate with your hate-filled revenge negativity and you want Salty to get the legal ball rolling on Eben and others, how about you, MEANING YOU, pay him a few thousand dollars for his time! Can’t afford it?

    Obviously you’re IMPOTENT with your stalker lust to take down the mighty Eben Pagan, so why not hire out and OUTSOURCE FORCE the job to a mercenary!


    1. @Jeff Rossries,

      Childish insults spewed at me like a drunk burps up stale beer? That’s the best you’ve got?

      My suggestion makes sense: Salty has the most data gathered and has experience in following legal procedure. He’s logically the best person to take this to the next level.

      But, vile as you may be, your suggestion of people offering to help with expenses is a good one.

      So if Salty wants to get this ball rolling I will pledge $750 towards his costs. Any other takers?


      P.S. I do have a contact in the DOJ, but he is busy hunting money launderers and terrorist networks. He won’t have time for this kind of thing. If I knew someone in the FTC, believe me, I’d be the one to take the first step.

  18. I’m not about to draft SD for a mission on behalf of others. That’s asking a lot of one person I think.

    However, I do respect that RJ is one of the few here to use his real name and the only one to offer such tangible support.

  19. I have been reading through this blog and it is very interesting indeed. Very thorough amounts of information – makes me wonder where all this info was gathered…

    Anyway, I’ve got a question for SD and the rest of the readers.

    It seems like all the big name Internet Marketing teachers are getting flamed on this site. I am a little surprised because Frank Kern and Eben Pagen always seemed like very nice guys (I don’t really know about the rest).

    Does this mean that teaching internet marketing itself is a scam? Does teaching internet marketing make you a scammer or is it charging a high price that makes you a scammer?

    Is there any good teachers of internet marketing out there? Are there people that can legitimately show us how to make money online?

    Please let me know…

    1. @DooDoo Brown, Keep reading…those same questions have been asked up many, many times in the comments here.

      1. Not everyone is getting “flamed” here. Only a very, very tiny percentage. The reasons are given in Salty’s posts, in many cases with absolutely irrefutable backup material from many a horse’s mouth. Continue reading.

      2. Teaching is not a scam. Lying, deceiving, and misrepresentation are. Continue reading.

      3. SD doesn’t do endorsements. It was commented on before: you can’t permanently certify ethics. This is a cautionary blog, not a referral service.

      Read on.

      1. @2020,

        I’ve read almost all the posts and comments and my questions still hold.

        I am sorry if the questions have been asked many times (I couldn’t find one though).

        I am still a little confused. It seems a lot of the tactics here that people are hating on are used by all internet marketers – and now that internet marketing has spread to other industries – by other companies as well.

        1. Not everyone is getting “flamed” here. Only a very, very tiny percentage.

        Right, but this “tiny” percentage are a lot of the big guys in IM. And almost every internet marketer I know uses these tactics too.

        2. Teaching is not a scam. Lying, deceiving, and misrepresentation are.

        Of course “teaching” is not a scam. However, can someone teach Internet Marketing without being considered a scammer?

        3. SD doesn’t do endorsements. It was commented on before: you can’t permanently certify ethics. This is a cautionary blog, not a referral service.

        That’s an easy way out and offers no help or solutions to people that really want to learn how to make money online and apply internet marketing to their business.

        If you don’t want to give specific referrals, how about at least being solution oriented and specifically outlining what make a good IM Guru. It doesn’t help to just say don’t lie or cheat.

        I’m sure everyone on this board have never told a lie before. In my experience, the ones that judge others most are in the most nee of being judged.

        1. @DooDoo Brown said: “In my experience, the ones that judge others most are in the most nee of being judged.”

          [Cue Choir: Here we go again…]

          To address your underlying, unstated question: you can avoid appearing here yourself by running an honest business. If you are unable to determine what that should mean, then don’t do it. It would also probably help if you don’t stand too close to the people you read about here.

          1. @Rubber Stamp,

            Another ambiguous comment by Rubber Stamp.

            Also, there is no underlying, unstated question in my post. I am still learning the basics of IM and applying them to my online business (which is far removed from the IM niche).

            I would assume that most of the people reading these posts are involved in someway with Internet Marketing. Otherwise, they wouldn’t know or care who any of these guys are.

            The real question is this: What specific guidelines could one follow to be “ok” in the eyes of SD and his followers?

            Because from what I am reading in the comments – anyone that teaches IM or sells information that can be retrieved somewhere free (which is totally subjective by the way) could be considered a scammer.

            Luckily, I have not been able to afford any of these guys products, but I am still trying to learn more about making money online and IM. So, how do I find a good teacher? What do I look for to make sure I am not getting scammed?

            Surely if there is a way NOT to be, there is a way TO BE. Or is it all just based on personal opinion of a few people that weren’t allowed to sit at the same lunch table?

            I hear a lot of judgments and bad mouthing, but not a lot of solutions for the rest of us…

        2. @DooDoo Brown,

          I’m a late-comer to this discussion, and probably shouldn’t be commenting, since I don’t know who most of the IM people are. I usually confine myself to the James Ray discussions, which is the only topic here that I really know anything about.

          However, I do get irritated by the holier than thou comments about not “judging.”

          Bitch, please.

          Anyone should be allowed to call attention to a dishonest businessman or company who is scamming people without being peppered with such silly accusations.

          What is a whistle-blower supposed to do?

          You don’t have to be perfect yourself to point out the egregious behavior of someone who is deceiving the public.

          1. @Hippo,

            “I’m a late-comer to this discussion, and probably shouldn’t be commenting, since I don’t know who most of the IM people are.”


            “Bitch, please.”

            I would love to meet you in person. I guarantee you wouldn’t say that to my face.

            1. @DooDoo Brown, Almost sounds as if you’re threatening Hippo. That’s no way to treat a nice lady who loves to hang with her friends on the porch and drink lemonade (which is much healthier than Kool-Aid). Chill, Doo-doo. Have some lemonade. You may be sincerely seeking answers and trying to make your way as a legit IM-er, but I think it’s just as important to learn what (and whom) to avoid as it is to learn what to embrace.

            2. DooDooBrown ::

              I doubt you have much occasion to look nice people in the face you fucking idiot.

              “you wouldn’t say that to my face” :: ?? :: seriously?

              Are you just plugging in your xbox live headset and then typing out whatever you hear the teenagers scream?

            3. @SD

              “I doubt you have much occasion to look nice people in the face you fucking idiot.”

              Wow, no wonder there are so many losers on this blog. Look who their fearless leader is. Real intelligent words there D-bag.

              I was actually on your side at first. And I absolutely guarantee that I have done more for humanity than your vindictive ass.

              Why would you come at me when the other guy was the one to start calling me names?

              Protecting your loyal strokers, eh? You are D-bag in just like the people you are against. Manipulating people with biased reviews. Purposley putting evil music behind out of context videos to make these guys look worse. You are not better than they are. And these people are on your nuts now just like they used to be on theirs. Sad group of sheep, really.

              Luckily, you live by me, so you can see that I don’t even own an xbox nor do I hang out with teenagers.

            4. @DooDoo Brown puked this ridiculous propaganda line up:

              “I was actually on your side at first.”

              No, you weren’t, liar. You started referring to victims here as “sheep” and “haters” soon after you appeared here with your agenda in hand. You were a toxic presence from the getgo, injecting your scammer-friendly sentiments across multiple posts.

              You are exactly what your chosen nickname implies: full of shit.

            5. @DooDoo Brown,

              I don’t know if you’re referring to me as the “guy” who “called you names.” But if I am the person you referenced:

              First of all, I am not a guy, and I am probably old enough to be your mother. Secondly, I did not call you any names.

              If you’re referring to my use of the term “bitch, please,” this is a colloquialism which simply means for you to reconsider your position on a topic, and is not meant as a slur.

              I thought this was common knowledge.

          2. @Hippo, Good for you for reinforcing some points that several people have tried to make on this thread and others. The “judgmental” accusation really annoys me. Yeah, Christ supposedly said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone, blah-blah-blah. But IMO that doesn’t apply to bloggers who are not claiming perfection themselves but are pointing out the shenanigans of those who are bilking the masses. If everyone refused to speak up just because of a belief that it’s wrong to be “judgmental,” many more people and corporations would be getting away with even more crap than they’re already getting away with.

            I realize too that some people come to blogs like this looking not just for an exposé of problems but also for solutions to those problems — or, even more unreasonable (IMO), specific recommendations of people or products that the blogger finds to be at least marginally acceptable. I get those requests too from time to time. But, as @Walt wrote here on Aug. 16, “Don’t ask the exterminator what makes a good pet.”

            Like you, Hippo, I don’t know who most of these IM people are either. (Or I didn’t till I read about ’em here.) But I don’t have to look too far to see their connection with people whose names are VERY familiar to me. Quoting Pee-Wee Herman again, “Connect the dots, la-la-la-la…”

            1. @Cosmic Connie, “Doo Doo” is absolutely a troll with an agenda. His comments collectively show it.

              He trashes people here for being “judgmental” yet then pretends to seek their input about finding someone decent to learn “IM” from?

              He’s not on any fact finding mission. His name is also appropriate. Must be Freudian.

            2. @Hippo, I don’t take anything too seriously from someone called DooDoo Brown. But I admit…the name made the laugh and gave me flashbacks of the 2 Live Crew.

            3. To Carlon:

              Point taken. However, people have inferred things from my name, “Hippo,” which are untrue, so I try not to make any assumptions about screen names.

            4. @Cosmic Connie, While Christ did indeed say the “cast the first stone” line, keep in mind that he also kicked ass on the money-changers who were selling bogus enhancements to spirituality outside the temple. Guess you, Salty, and the like will have to fill in for the time being. :-)

  20. @DooDoo Brown said:

    “I am still learning the basics of IM and applying them to my online business (which is far removed from the IM niche).”

    “I hear a lot of judgments and bad mouthing, but not a lot of solutions for the rest of us…”

    If you aren’t in the “IM niche,” why then are you so worried?

    What person featured on this blog is NOT involved in IM? Hmmm…

    Nobody here is going to give you a morality map, troll.

    1. @Rubber Stamp,

      Do you even know what a troll is? Yawn.

      Yes, I am not in the IM niche – meaning I do not teach IM tactics.

      I am not “worried” nor did I say I was.

      However I would still like to find legit place to learn IM,
      and I do believe that someone can offer some guidance on how
      to find this.

      You obviously don’t have any valuable answers, so I don’t need your reply.
      Time to bounce out rubber one…

      1. @DooDoo Brown, Yes, you are a troll.

        You have been “bouncing” around this blog, leaving BAIT comments under various posts.

        You aren’t looking for answers, you are trying to make a statement with your questions.

        Won’t work, sorry.

        1. @Rubber Stamp,

          Sorry, not true.

          So anyone that has questions, doesn’t fully agree, or has their own opinions is a troll? Wrong.

          This is why I told you your answers are useless to me. You judged me from the get-go assuming that I was only posting for BAIT.

          Sorry, not true again. I am posting because I have a genuine desire to give my opinion and discuss these topics.

          On the flipside, what have you offered? -Lame ambiguous answers that offer no value. You should probably join the syndicate – you’d be good at selling over-priced crap ;)

          1. @DooDoo Brown, I take it you weren’t a philosophy major, because your attempts to use logic leaps are pretty weak.

            “So anyone that has questions, doesn’t fully agree, or has their own opinions is a troll?”

            Never said that.

            However, your comments insult en masse in one breath and purport to seek dialog and enlightenment in the next. You’re also repeating your comment tactics in manic fashion across posts. That’s all highly inconsistent with a truth seeker, and paints you to be what you really are: a troll out grandstanding.

            It’s obvious to any reader who’s been following this blog for more than, say, 24 hours.

            1. @Rubber Stamp,

              I never claimed to be a philosophical major nor do I care what you think about my logic leaps. What is weak is you jumping to challenging “school majors” and logic leaps – its obvious you don’t know what you are talking about.

              “So anyone that has questions, doesn’t fully agree, or has their own opinions is a troll?

              Never said that.”

              I never said you said that. I was asking you a question, which again you have dodged.

              Too bad we can’t talk about this in person. I know we could solve it real quick.

              You make so many assumptions about my motives, but they are all wrong. I’m just interested in this topic.

          2. @DooDoo Brown,

            Here are a few guidelines:

            1. Don’t use exaggerated or false numbers when relating your own “success”.

            2. Don’t sell a system for making money that depends on selling a system for making money.

            3. Don’t sell something that doesn’t work or only works in very special cases.

            4. Don’t refuse refunds.

            5. Deliver what you say you are going to deliver, when you say you are going to deliver it.

            6. Don’t use hidden continuity

            7. Don’t engage in bait and switch.

            8. Don’t endorse a fraudulent product or teacher.

            9. Disclose any and all monetary compensation you are receiving for your endorsement.

            10. Don’t steal and repackage the intellectual property of others.

            11. Don’t make up fake testimonials

            Those are 11 good ones for starters.

            1. @Ross Jeffries,

              Thanks Ross!

              I appreciate the intelligent answer and the time you took to put that list together.

              I am not sure how you can spot this initially since upfront you wouldn’t know this stuff.

              When choosing a coach or IM teacher, we wouldn’t know if that person followed these guidelines or not.

              Also, unfortunately, those guilty of breaking many if not all of these rules span way beyond just the IM and Self Help arena.

              Our governments are worse and lie, steal, and manipulate us every day. Sigh. All this greed and deceit – kind of depressing…

            2. @DooDoo Brown, Ross was *obviously* advising you about how YOU should conduct your business. But you already knew that.

              You are feigning ignorance around here, tool.

              You have repeatedly asked for “advice” on this blog about finding a “coach or teacher” and at the same time, you bashed commenters here for critiquing the scammers by saying, quote:

              “In my experience, the ones that judge others most are in the most nee of being judged.”

              Then there were your other comments calling readers here sheep, haters, etc.

              You are NOT who you are pretending to be.

      1. @Oh Barf,

        “You are NOT who you are pretending to be.”

        Again with the assumptions. Sigh.
        Who am I pretending to be – Oh Barf?

        “@Cosmic Connie, He’s attempting to steer the conversation here. Very manipulative.”

        There you go again. Stroking each other and giving thumbs up. You too can be a part of the cool kids on SD, just agree with everyone and offer no opinions. Puke.

        What conversation am I attempting to steer? I read the stuff and gave my opinion just like everyone else. In fact, your comment was a reply to my original comment. So, I am attempting to steer my own comment? Makes a lot of sense Barf. You are probably one of the drones that spent thousands buying these guys products and now you are complaining about it. Real smart guy, real smart.

        1. You are not looking for any answers here, “Doo Doo.”

          Let me be clear:

          You are pro-scammer. Don’t ask me to further explain your motivations. That’s your problem, not mine.

          As was said before: you ask questions not to get answers, but to make a statement. It’s a crude and obvious attempt to undermine what has and is being said around here.

          I also suspect you may be the same commenter as “skeptic.”

          Another thing: in the unlikely event you really were looking for answers here and received this barrage of (deserved) resistance, you would have left or toned it down long ago. Instead, you dug in your heals and notched it up, like a true militant scammer.

          1. @Oh Barf,

            Let’s be straight. I am no other commenter. I am not pro-scammer, nor did I ever claim to be.

            My questions have received a barrage of unexpected and unwarranted resistance. So why would I just leave? That doesn’t make sense either. That is another poor assumption on your part.

            So if SD received resistance from the “syndicate” he should have just left or toned down?

            Well, actually, he dug in his heals and notched it up didn’t he?

            Isn’t that what you are doing as well towards me. Does that make you a militant scammer? You just don’t want me to state my opinion or ask my questions because they are different from yours…

            I didn’t read the notice here that said:

            Please only comment if you agree with what everyone else says here.

            Sitting around stroking each other will not lead to a solution. However, asking pertinent questions and getting solid answers for them just might.

            1. @DooDoo Brown, Want coaching? Go see Joe. He’ll be easy to spot… he’s the one whose cheeks your nose is nestled between. And he’ll gladly send you to his Mormon Miracles Coaching call center. Be sure and have a credit card handy, or it’ll be a real short conversation.

              Want sympathy for being so heinously misunderstood and misinterpreted? Go attend an ACOA meeting. They eat that shit up. Around here, all you’ll get is folks reaching for their violins to play “My Heart Bleeds For You.”

  21. “Sitting around stroking each other will not lead to a solution”

    What “solution” are you referring to? The solution to making this blog go away so you and your ilk can operate more freely?

    You have done the following on this blog:

    1. Claimed to be looking for help finding a good IM “teacher or coach,” repeatedly, even when it’s pretty clear that this isn’t the venue for that-

    While at the same time…

    2. Calling people here sheep and haters and bashing victims for not taking “responsibility.”

    Meanwhile, you were also digging around Salty’s profile posts, throwing negative assertions about his intents and purpose here.

    No, you have ulterior motives without any doubt. We’ve also seen you before.

    1. @Oh Barf,

      Oh Barf Oh My…

      You really got the short end of the stick in the brain department, eh?

      You have not seen me before because I just found this site yesterday for the first time which SD could actually verify if he wanted. Anyways, that doesn’t matter – you have made lame assumptions so far, so what is going to stop you now?

      “What “solution” are you referring to?”


      “The solution to making this blog go away so you and your ilk can operate more freely?”

      Back to trying to say I’m part of the “syndicate” or something. Yawn. I never said or implied that I wanted this site to go away. In fact, quite the opposite – I would love to see this site actually do something useful rather than just bash the gurus and let guru bashers stroke each other.

      From you:

      “You have done the following on this blog:

      1. Claimed to be looking for help finding a good IM “teacher or coach,” repeatedly, even when it’s pretty clear that this isn’t the venue for that-”

      I still think that if we are going to go after the ones that are doing it wrong, it would be good to have some help finding the ones that are doing it right. I know this would help me. And yes, learning about the sleaziness of these marketers makes me want to find other coaches and mentors to learn from – isn’t that part of the point of airing all their dirty laundry?

      “While at the same time…

      2. Calling people here sheep and haters and bashing victims for not taking “responsibility.””

      That’s what I see when I read through the comments. The funny thing is that you think I have to be a scammer to feel this way. I arrived here completely new yesterday, read through the site and it was as plain as day that there was a lot of haters and sheep here. Nothing against the site itself – just a lot of “yes” people that aren’t trying to come up with a solution. Probably the same type of people that buy multiple times (not just once) from these guys and then complain that they are the “victim”. If you are not one of them, you could see it too.

      “Meanwhile, you were also digging around Salty’s profile posts, throwing negative assertions about his intents and purpose here.”

      I am new to this site and I have been looking around just like anyone would do. Am I just supposed to read the posts, but not look around at other posts. Salty even had a link to his profile post on other places in the site. He guided me there. I read his post and then had a question. So I asked it. You are reading way too much in to it. I honestly had no negative assertions – I am just curious about how someone not involved in IM finds themselves running a site like this? If I was sitting next to Salty at the coffee shop I would ask him the same thing.

      You guys are so quick to assume and jump down everyones throats. You don’t like anyone else here ask any questions or voicing any other opinions that don’t comply perfectly with yours. If they do, vote them down and call them a scammer. Now what does that behavior resemble?

      1. @DooDoo Brown,

        “You really got the short end of the stick in the brain department, eh?”

        Not a short enough stick not to see through you.

        Haven’t you learned that you have to sell the main product first, before you go for the upsell? We aren’t going to buy any “bonus shit” if you haven’t first convinced us to buy a “load of shit.”

        1. @Oh Barf,

          I don’t sell any upsells, bonuses or any of that stuff. Again totally wrong, douche.

  22. let’s gang rape them all, motherfuckers! I vote for linching the fucking head of the conspiracy: joe polish. die!

  23. Did SD take down all the scammers yet? Wake me up when he does. Oh. There still making money. Yeah you did a lot this year. You shut down Ryan D. You closed down Frank K. Ended the career of Mike F. Crushed Jeff W. Made Matt B. cry for his mommy. And now you got Tony R. taken off television. All hail Salty Droid.

  24. i love reading salty droid really opened my eyes about who i should follow and who to avoid.keep up the good work in exposing all these scammers.

  25. There is money to be made online despite what some people believe (biased from their own experiences and most likely because they’ve been scammed) however it takes a certain type of individual, not just the average person like most gurus would make you believe.

    College isn’t for everyone and an online business in my honest opinion is less risky than most other business ventures because you don’t have to deal with as many problems and costs associated with them (unless it’s buying the latest and greatest marketing frauduct).

    Don’t expect to get rich promoting the latest Clickbank product or a “free apple ipad” offer though, this shit takes work and dedication to pay off.

  26. Salty Droid,

    Thank heavens I found your site. As someone who has already lost about 300 bucks on this internet market scams, I consider myself lucky. Thank you and keep it up. I have bookmarked your site and spreading the word to all my friends on all the good work you have done. If I hadn’t found your site on time, I’d probably be scammed several thousand dollars already. Thanks for exposing these cheats.

    Thank you!

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