Eben Pagan :: Self-Made PROBLEMS

Egyptian Droid

Seems wrong to talk about anything other than Egypt right now :: but that’s not the sort of thing I talk about. Fake robotics is only in its infancy :: and global politics is a highly advanced function. Still :: I’ve prepared a few words …

“Fuck you Hosni Mubarak :: you fucking fuck!

Go away …

… twenty years ago.

I fart in your general direction!


Okay then :: I think I handled that situation with grace and distinction. Now on to something only slightly less important …

Who stole Eben Pagan’s balls? Or was he just born without any?

This is the final week of Eben Pagan’s “Self-Made WEALTH” launch :: and word on the street is that it’s sucking some serious ass {like many other recent launches}.  Good times!

According to Eben …

1) The Self-Made WEALTH launch is coming right along, and we have “pretty good” sales… but pretty good isn’t going to cut it!

We’re 2 days in, and our top partner has sold 19… which isn’t bad for just 48 hours of being open.

But as they say, “Good Enough… ISN’T.”

Good Enough just isn’t good enough for Eben Pagan and his GED :: he has a higher set of lower standards.

Self-Made WEALTH …

Self-Made == French for syndicate

WEALTH == unsustainable short term gains with the possibility of jail time

Eben Pagan’s Self-Made WEALTH is the perfect frauduct for that special someone in your life who has two thousand too many dollars.

Let’s take a look at the sales leaders/heroes  …

1. Brendon Burchard
2. Jeff Johnson
3/4. Blair Gorman / Robert MacNaughton
5. Mark Ling
6. Alex Van Dyne
7. Greg Habstritt
8/9. Jeff Walker/Dan Murphy
10/11/12. Frank Kern/Quincy Beeker/Furst Four
13-20: All these guys have 4 each – anything could happen!
Mike Koenigs
Yanik Silver
Scot McKay
Jason Fielder
Greg Jacobs
Jim Katsoulis
Christian Mickelsen
Steve Little

Impressive names & numbers {ha!}.

Thanks to all y’all for all your hard work hurting people.


>> bleep bloop

181 thoughts on “Eben Pagan :: Self-Made PROBLEMS”

  1. What’s complete shit is that this guy has the balls (or not) to go to Burning Man. Seriously. It’s a movement that’s completely against what he spouts. It’s fuckin’ hippies and he just uses it for another opportunity.

    1. @PreggerKittyface, Aha the ‘OPPORTUNITY’ again. If buying their shit is not an ‘INVESTMENT’ then surely its an ‘OPPORTUNITY’. The elite vernacular of the wannabes and marketing goddesses is so very predictable. If you dont buy their shit sorry if you dont ‘INVEST’ in their shit they have the Goddess given right to make you feel a summary twat and dare you tell them what you really think. Nah actually think again, screw it just do it!

  2. Good to finally see something on “Eben Pagan”. I’d love if you bashed his other alter ego “David DeAngelo” a bit. His business is known for using dishonest techniques such as forced continuity, apart from the bigger problem that he doesn’t provide any useful information.

    1. @Aaron Sleazy, Most people are not looking for useful information. They unconsciously buy the dream over and over again. This is why these products exist. There is a demand for them.

      1. @Adi, “There is a demand for them.”

        maybe true, although also true is there are people who know how to trick people into buying them. so what maybe is also true is that if there is a “demand for them” maybe it’s because the demand was artificially created by the hucksters, maybe?

        it could be chicken/egg question i think.

    2. @Aaron Sleazy, doesn’t provide any useful information… I beg to differ. You’re nothing more than a “me to” person who wants to join the in crowd. Try watching some of his free videos, or actually buying a product from him and you’ll see there’s a lot of information in there. But hey I know it’s easier to just join the “hang’em up and let ’em die” group… try thinking for yourself for a change.

      1. @Eben, You are an absolute idiot. His insanely overpriced, long-winded “information” is just a bunch of recycled, generic pep talk that could be gotten from a cheap, discarded “Business for Dummies” book. Pagan is all posture and rehash. Try thinking for yourself for a change.

    3. @Aaron Sleazy,

      You are the biggest scammer/douche that I’ve ever come across.

      Note to all: He’s best friends with (9/11) conspiracy theorists, nobody reads his dating blog, and he got banned as a moderator from PUAHate because everyone called him out for censoring posts that didn’t agree with him, for making out with guys (I kid you not), and running a pickup business when he’s spent most of his time ripping the industry on his blog — hypocrite.

  3. Invite Eben Pagan to your house this Sunday for the Super Bowl. He can lay on your table and be the fuck snack. What a douche bag.

    1. @Cosmic Connie, use the ‘contact’ or ‘complaints’ tab at the
      top of this website for that…. gawsh

    2. @Cosmic Connie, The part I put here from the link 1 link you put here can’t be exactly about Eben Pagan, but is good for many SD things here:

      “Integral is exhausted: abandon it to Oprah Winfrey Network.”

      “abandon it to Oprah Winfrey Network.”


      1. @Jack, Ditto on the LOL re “abandon it to Oprah Winfrey Network.” While that quotation wasn’t specifically about Eben Pagan, it’s pretty obvious that the blogger, Joseph Gelfer, has Pagan’s number.

        @Deiss Affiliate: “The levels of consciousness, Graves model BS is just a way to act all ‘evolved’ and stuff.”
        Yep. I call it “conspicuous enlightenment” (which often goes hand in hand these days with “conspicuous altruism”).

        Thanks to New-Wage hucksters and hustledorks, the word “integral” has become as meaningless as “authentic,” “passion,” and “bliss.”

        1. @Cosmic Connie,

          Originally Wilber placed himself humbly beneath the top of the spiritual pyramid, but eventually he constructed new and higher levels of consciousness to which he mysteriously rose. I think this was because he became annoyed at his followers, felt he was superior, and needed a philosophy to justify his feelings.

          That said, I think there may be something to many of the models Wilber has appropriated and misinterpreted.

        2. @Cosmic Connie, Sadly I had to look up the word, “conspicuous”… What a great word, and appropriate. I think Eben truly buys in to this stuff, which makes him dangerous as evident by how creepy his fans are in person. Another word for his ilk is just plain old hubris

    3. @Cosmic Connie, I like this guy. Thanks for sharing. Integral is a bunch of bullshit. I know Eben is a big Wilbur fan, and uses it to confuse the fuck out of people. The levels of consciousness, Graves model BS is just a way to act all “evolved” and stuff…

      1. @Duff,

        For anyone who enjoys reading academic sociology/feminism and wants to hear a good critique of Integral and other men’s spiritual movements, I also heartily recommend Gelfer’s book Numen, Old Men.

  4. If you look closely it looks like he’s holding his wang down. But it’s just an illusion because there’s no way this guy has a penis.

  5. This guy has made MILLIONS selling advice on getting laid…he would have a hard time getting laid in a whorehouse with a fistful of fifties

    The ugly chick in the picture is supposedly his hag of a wife…I guess he had the whole thing ghost written

    You would think with all the millions he has (stolen) and all that picking up chicks genius he could land a babe and not some lame ass with a BAD case of fugly

    FUGLY is what you get when you fall out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down….then climbed back up and did it again

    This guy is a penisless thief who deserves a prison raping

    Salty glad to see your targeting more of the syndicate. I know that Iworks thief deserved a bashing but the fact that Dandy jackass Jenkins emailed it to you troubled me

    BTw Mormans have no problem stealing from non Mormons…they feel it’s their duty as a matter of fact

      1. @J, It is… this dude has no fucking idea what he’s talking about. You’re all a bunch of whinny ass bitches complaining about people… Bahaha… LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!LOSERS!!!!!

    1. @Shit Storm, when you make misogynistic comments like fugly and hag, any (justified) attacks against Eben and the syndicate lose credibility.

      Although Eben’s girlfriend has been involved in some of his shady deals, there’s no need to call her names and suggest that Eben’s money could “land a babe and not some lame ass with a BAD case of fugly” . It would be more appropriate to focus on her lack of moral character or judgement.

      I know you mean well, but you just sound like a hater when you write things like that.

      1. @Grow Up,

        How can pointing out that he made millions selling advice on getting laid & picking up babes AND it’s DEAD obviously he can’t pick up a babe lose credibility?

        This is what they want you all to do…overlook the fucking obvious

        they count on you playing by some set of RULES…and if you step out of bounds and call them names or ridicule them then you’re a hater

        He can’t pick up babes or get laid…yet made tens of millions selling saps on how to do it

        then points to those tens of millions as proof he can show you how to make money

        he lied to make money…then used the profits of that lie as testament to his skills at making money

        If that’s not a SCAM then nothing is

        the best scams are the ones right in front of your face

        Fuck him and his Fugly wife…and if anyone thinks that tearing into a scumbag like Eben pagan is not politically correct should seriously examine their fucking souls

        or maybe you are juts plants here to spin the posts in your direction

        If my remarks are a problem then console yourself with this:

        I haven’t ripped of TENS of MILLIONS from people by selling BULLSHIT advice…

        EBEN has

        1. @Shit Storm, Good on you shitstorm for saying what you think and for not apologising. I respect that. Anyone these days who dares to be outspoken and unapologetic and scathing often gets called a “hater”. It is silly how hypersensitive people are these days. While I wouldn’t personally feel the need to say anything about his girlfriend, if that is what you think I reckon that is all good.
          “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” (Voltaire?). Down with PC.

          1. @Chris,

            The problem with saying “what you think” is that “what you think” might not be based on FACTS.

            How does Shit Storm know this guy “can’t pick up babes or get laid”? Where’s his proof? And just because HE thinks this girl is “fugly” doesn’t count.

            Shit Storm then uses that OPINION (based on what?) to make the statement that this guy has “stolen” money from people who have bought his products.

            If you can’t see the problem with this logic, then you are as stupid as Shit Storm.

            This is an interesting board, but the biggest problem I see here is the lack of PROOF that’s submitted when people make statements or accusations (like Shit Storm’s 2 posts above).

            And by the way, Freedom of Speech doesn’t guarantee that you can say anything you want without consequences.

            1. @Type, You are free to your own opinions as are shitstorm and me.
              I am sure you could ask plenty of people whether they got enough value out of Eben Pagan’s products and I bet some of those would feel they were indeed scammed. I myself have had a bad experience with scammers from your country and I make no apologies for calling these scumbags out. People who have had unsavory experiences with these types are free to criticise, castigate and show disdain for them however they please. I ask: Who are you to decide how people should express themselves? Don’t know if you’ve heard this saying: “sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me”. I think hypersensitive types like you could do well to heed this advice. Freedom of speech most often than not only has consequences because hypersensitive and insercure fools choose to escalate things to a violent level. That shouldn’t stop us from expressing ourselves just because of some stupid threats. You can take your sanctimony and try it on someone else as it is a waste of time trying to advise me and get me to accept your worldview. There is no right to not be offended (in my book anyway and that is how I’ll choose to live my life thanks), that is if you believe in freedom of speech.
              Nice touch with the stupidity tag but I ain’t biting LOL. I guess I can be stupid at times but that doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion.

            2. @Type, You’re a fucking douchebag apologist. You’ve repeated the same idiotic non-argument as every other scumbag who has attempted to promote scammer worship on this blog in the past. Go rot.

            3. @Type,

              In the 2 1/2 years Eben was one of my Speed Seduction(R) students I NEVER saw him with a woman and never even saw him speak to or with a woman.

              Eben probably has “table service” game. Which means; spend $1000 on a table with free champagne and jump on the ho’s who come over to guzzle.


              1. @Ross Jeffries ::

                Maybe you should make that your marketing angle …

                “Ross Jeffries: I couldn’t help Eben Pagan”

                Truth in advertising

            4. @Type,

              Success can only come from within morals and ethics, something Eben and apologists like you never grasp.

              He isn’t successful, far from it

              and you are wrong – I do know this piece of shit

              He is a huge phony…more than you can imagine.

              That hag I rip knows and is part of his scams so go fuck yourself

        2. @Shit Storm, you whine, bitch and complain!! Surely you have no money and success in this world!! Frustrated Ass!!

      2. @Grow Up, I was with you, until you mentioned that she’s been involved in shady deals. She deserves all the bashing she’s getting and more. I have no sympathy for her.

        As was stated by others, it is important to talk about her appearance as her husband pretends to be a so-called expert on dating and bedding any woman you want.

        He is considered an expert PUA, so the discussion about his “conquests” is quite relevant. His frauducts don’t talk about love or inner beauty of women, it is all about conquering the most beautiful woman you see and getting her to do whatever you want sexually. He relentlessly promotes mental manipulation, sexual control and abuse of women. He even brags about letting his buddies have sex with the women he manipulates. Comes very close to pimping.

        So, if you really cared about misogyny so much, then you should start with Eben Pagan and his perpetuation of using women as sex objects.


        1. @422, Good reply. I’ve hesitated to comment on this aspect because I don’t want to come across as self-righteous (well, any more self-righteous than I actually am :-)). I’ve said before that I deplore name-calling and making fun of people’s looks, and for the most part I think that kind of stuff detracts from the real message on this blog. Moreover, I don’t happen to think that Eben/David’s g.f. is “fugly.” However, it is also true that she is not exactly the stereotypical delicate-featured, huge-breasted hottie that PUA jokers (and other IM con artists — or, for that matter, most successful men) seem to need to have hanging on their arms. So either Eben/David is truly in love with her (and boldly unafraid of defying the stereotype of the successful man with the arm candy) or, as others have suggested, he is incapable of getting a little bit of arm candy for himself. Either way it is not exactly good marketing for his PUA products.

          I’ve been having a discussion on Twitter with a guy whom I’ve considered to be a friend, but we’re having a bit of a disagreement now because he has said he’s not a fan of Salty Droid. As is the case with so many other critics of SD, this person seems to think that SD’s main motive for writing the blog is that successful people just rub him the wrong way.

          My Twitter pal also said that he thinks SD snares innocents in his wide net. I asked him to give a few examples of this collateral damage, and he specifically named Eben Pagan as one who does not deserve the Salty treatment. I replied that we’d just have to agree to disagree about some of the folks he named. Certainly, from what I know of Eben/David’s work, he’s hardly an innocent. And I get the feeling that this post about Eben is just foreplay, so to speak, and that Salty will have much more to share in the coming weeks.

          1. @Cosmic Connie,

            “I’ve been having a discussion on Twitter with a guy whom I’ve considered to be a friend, but we’re having a bit of a disagreement now because he has said he’s not a fan of Salty Droid. As is the case with so many other critics of SD, this person seems to think that SD’s main motive for writing the blog is that successful people just rub him the wrong way.”

            Hahaha. The whole IM scene is full of people claiming (!) to be successful, without really being. Funny, how they all shout to have millions, and once the FTC invariably cracks down on them, they are all of a sudden found to be in debt up to their armpits. Your “friend”, dear trolling Cosmic Connie, might want to attend Logic 101 at his local community college in Unicorn Country.

            1. @Aaron Sleazy, Don’t you be calling Cosmic Connie a troll, or I’ll commence to knitting you a shawl that covers your mouth.

        2. @422,

          I remember Eben Saying That he would rather date a Semi attractive female that is great to be around.. over a hot chick that does have her ish together. I agree!!! and Ive hooked up with plenty Pretty gals… Honest truth is i became a super Mac Daddy after reading his material and I do not have to lie to women. I have also attended his Guru Mastermind seminar in LA on Business Management And it was Gold. This Dude Was A gateway into A Knowledge Aquiring life that I did not know Where to begin with prior.

          Thanks Super Human

        3. @422, he talks how to be successful with women, nothing more nothing less, from my experience it is the best what I ever heared about this topic…

  6. “Eben Pagan” or whatever his real name is only claims to have made millions in Internet marketing, to give some credibility to the fact that he is now teaching marketing, which is very similar to him claiming to get laid so that he could justify his Double Your Dating ebook. Does this vaguely sound like good ‘ol Baron Munchausen to anyone?

  7. What’s really sad to for me to see is Gregg Habstritt listed there. He lives in my city and does courses on real estate. I attended some of his early courses which are actually not bad. He always come off as genuine and sincere about what he was teaching.

    Trouble is I could see him going down the information frauduct rabbit hole about two years ago when he talked about his attendance at meetings with Tony Robbins, Asaraf amd I think even James Ray – like a circle jerk event for the more popular “gurus”. Its only gotten worse of late with his promotion of “mental wealth” type products/programs/coaching along with his – what I thought – were legit products. Now he’s cross promoting all kinds of shite.

    At the one seminar I attended of his – which was a course on investing in commercial real estate, he apparently had cross promoted it to some Law of Attraction group/list, so there were a lot of professional seminar attendees at this weekend event with this weird glazed look in their eyes. These people had no intentions of investing in commercial real estate but they had traveled across country to attend this event. It was almost like having lunch with the stepford wives. It was creepy.

    My point being: I thought Habstritt was the real deal and was going to stay above this fray. Nope. Nada. Nyet. Nein. He’ll never get another $ from me.

    1. @BRA,

      I’ve seen this before. People start off legit, with the best of intentions. Then the worst and most dangerous thing happens: they start to see some real money for the first time ever and they start getting “followers”.

      Pretty soon, they begin to convince themselves and rationalize that cheating a little bit is ok-after all, what they are offering, overall is well worth the money. Then envy kicks in: they see the top level cons making much more money than they are and getting far more adulation.

      Pretty soon, they’ve forgotten what has motivated them in the first place and it’s quickly all about them, them, them and them.

      Making money in a legit way is possible, but it takes devotion, focus, hard work, focus focus focus focus and, oh yes, focus. Lying and stealing to do it appeals to the very human desire to have your cake, eat it too, and take a bite of the other guy’s pie.

      I’ve seen great talent go bad this way. GREAT TALENT.


      1. @Ross Jeffries,

        Like at the one Stompernet convention I attended, where you ran for the microphone at every opportunity?

        And when you had the mic, you’d say “This is Ross Jeffries from SpeedSeduction.biz and I have to tell you that Stompernet is the best Internet Marketing training anywhere!”

      2. @Ross Jeffries, you are selling the greatest shit men, no value at all and you are ugly as death…..

  8. HAHAHA oh, besides being a ‘self made’ douchebag
    this guy released the same product when? last year.

    So ‘what does that mean then?’

    It means that its already on all the torrent sites,
    private torrent sites AND file sharing sitesm, ect.

    So really, it just might be another contributing
    reason as to why {sales are down}

  9. That nutsack Brendon Burchard brags how he achieved “expert status” by working from his kitchen table… to selling how-to-become-a-millionaire frauducts and scaminars.

    The call he did with Kern to launch his crap last year was downright hilarious. and sad.

    On Eben Pagan… there’s nothing else to be said.

    1. @Brendon Burchard,

      I saw one video of Burchard and thought “Tony Robbins clone.” He’s adopted Robbins’ mannerisms and gestures. So did one James Arthur Ray, who additionally took at least one of Robbins’ stories word for word and gesture for gesture. The funniest part is that Robbins’ original story was probably a half-truth in the first place.

      1. @Duff, Brendon Bushturd is more like gay Tony Robbins. No wonder his girlfriend left him in college when she discovered beer and boys….story according to Brendon. She probably dated that homo for few years, and once she got a taste for beer and real cock, she ditched that fanny packer.

  10. Oh man, I love it when your articles allow me to come up with pet names for these adorable Guru’s

    Eban Pagan Lover
    Brendon Doucheard
    Jeff Loves Johnson’s
    Blair Gorkman
    Mark Ding-a-Ling
    Alex Van Dick head
    Jeff Cock Walker/Dan Smurphy
    Frank Korn Kernal/Quincy Big Beeker/Furst Four < FTW!?!
    Mike Kuntigs
    Yanik Silver Back
    Scot McKock
    Jim Kaksoulis
    Christian Dicklessen
    Steve Little Member

  11. Wow, this “launch” looks like a TOTAL BUST. Think about it. IF he even sells a couple of hundred (mailing to many THOUSANDS of people which is a sucky response), the revenue share and REFUNDS are going to eat his lunch compared to the glory hole days of old. Fortunately for him, you can survive on peanut butter and bread at burning man. Will he have to virtually lay off his virtual employees? Stay tuned!

    1. @Hank Snitterborg, What he probably went ahead and did was figure in the 70% refund rate up and ahead of time so I think that he can be OK with his launch of SElf-Made Wealth made now from some lists of other non-self people.

  12. You’re going to be self-made BROKE if you spend $1997 on bullshit like this. The wealthy get and stay wealthy by AVOIDING the spending of money whenever possible. Word to the wise, yo.

  13. In my past business life I got my hands on Eben’s Get Altitude and Guru Mastermind courses. I paid for them!

    For anyone interested in Ebens work I’d add this…

    Eben is without doubt a learned guy, he’s an avid studier and continually educates himself. He heavily promotes self education and promotes how he ‘believes’ the new way to make money is through information… of course he will do. However, for me this is the problem with guys like Eben Pagan.

    With Information comes Responsibility. The keyword here is Responsibility!

    – Is the information correct?
    – Is it useful information?
    – Will the information pay for itself and then some?
    – What if the information is actually wrong, and this takes you and/or your business of course for months, even years?
    – What if its designed to keep you hooked and spending more and more with said “guru”?

    And you need to ask how much information do you really need?

    Eben’s courses are massive, DVD after DVD, video after video. You’ll never watch them all, take notes and have time and money to implement… unless you’re unemployed of course. And if you are, you DO NOT need to waste money on info products.

    From speaking with and working with various small businesses on and offline (many individuals/sole traders), more or lots of information typically equals “Paralysis by Analysis”. Procrastination without Action. Lots of Education and Intellect, but with little Take Action Experience.

    So food for thought, before you take out your credit card one more time, please ask yourself “do I really need more information?”. By buying this course today what is it going to give me? what is it going to get me?

    And to look at it from a financial perspective. What will the ROI (Return On Investment) be, how many extra sales will you need to make, just to pay for the course? Then post break-even – what in monetary terms will the extra knowledge “if you do in fact learn anything” make you?

    Its a fact that most people that buy these info courses, get overwhelmed with the information (be it too much, unstructured, wrong, etc) or are probably too busy working in/on their business to even login or open the DVD case!

    Maybe some of the above will make sense.

    All the best!

  14. The facial growth fails to make him look rugged. It’s just doesn’t work like it’s supposed too.

    Kinda like his Double Your Dating frauducts… and his Get Altitude “training”, and his Get Ignition “training”, and his Wake Up Productive program, and his Guru Mastermind program, oh… and his Self Made Wealth program and… heck I don’t have all day.

    I like the hat though. Very progressive.

    1. @Irwin, From the picture, it looks like his next “product” should be called, “Wake up and take a shower…for God’s sake.”

  15. It’s interesting what a difference a year makes. Last year I was tempted to buy all of these products, and did buy a few. Now when I see the sales copy it’s sort of like Charlie Brown’s teacher – the words are all the same and the gimmicks are just so silly and worn out. I just laugh, shake my head, and hit delete. I don’t unsubscribe, though, because I still think the emails are entertaining to read …

  16. Pagan makes the Village People look like a bunch of John Waynes.

    My PC monitor just went limp with that d-bag dressed like that on my screen…

  17. I used to think (years ago now) that Mark Ling was credible.

    But like so many, he sold out to pimping anything and everything.

    Too bad mate, when did you cross over to the dark side?

  18. LOVE this –> “[Eban Pagan] has a higher set of lower standards.”


    BTW, what is the blog code to quote text??

  19. That new girl Eben is dating owns him. She has his balls in her purse, and he is only allowed to see them once in a while when she is in a good mood.

    He rips off people for so much money it’s not even funny. But, the funniest thing of all is, with all the money he has scammed out of people, he still hasn’t used any of it to fix that giant hooknose he has. You could use that thing as a coat rack.

    1. @PuaHate, Ebens products are free as you can return them with full refund if you think it is not worth the money….torrents are also a possibility…..

  20. What we are now seeing here (and with other SINdicate launches) is that these buffoons are running out of uninformed “fresh meat” to sell to. That’s what historically they have depended on to keep the bullshit moving and prices absurdly high. Those days are o-v-e-r.

    The market has been so beaten and abused over the last few years that the herds are gone and all that’s left are a few haggard customers that just aren’t biting any more. You can see the desperation in the launches as well as the seminars, which aren’t packing them in anything like they used to.

    Then, of course, there’s the matter of a certain robot and a few other semi-spined bloggers who are keeping the flames of truth positioned right under some deserving asses. Now is the time to really turn up the heat.

  21. Yo Salty! That’s his sister in the pic. They got the same nose! Which begs the question…who is the mysterious man with the puckered lips? Let’s hope he has plenty of Vaseline to protect against chaffing! The sun can be brutal.

  22. before reading the crap below:

    If he gave even a tiny shit about people and their education about money he would not price his friggin course at 2,000K way over the head of most people who actually need information about money and finances.

    Try $97 you money sucking whore.. oh but wait then your pimp affiliates wouldn’t bother to mail their cross polluted lists for you.

    Oh that’s right it’s all an affiliate/ syndicate game… how much more proof
    do we need?


    Registration opens tomorrow for the “Self-Made WEALTH”
    Coaching & Training Program – and I want to take a minute
    to answer some important questions about the program –
    and to give you another great training video.

    First, the new video…

    As you obviously know, most people never get a financial
    education – and they struggle their entire lives to keep up –
    never mind to get ahead…

    A couple of days ago, I taught an “invitation only” live webinar,
    and shared more strategies and techniques for really getting
    this area of life handled.

    I just edited the recording, and put it up for you to watch. It
    covers several strategies that you’ll want to learn and use
    NOW. You can watch the video here:


    NEXT, let’s talk about what’s going to be included in my new
    90-Day Coaching & Training Program.

    The program is for anyone who has made the decision that
    “it’s finally time” to get an education about money and
    wealth – and that NOW is the time to get this area of your
    life handled.

    After almost 20 years of working hard, studying psychology
    and behavior, and learning everything I can about how to
    create the income and wealth that I wanted in my own life…

    I’ve taken everything I know and condensed it into an
    ultra-powerful education program that can literally change
    the course of your future.

    This coaching and training program is a combination of
    live weekly group training and mentoring sessions with me
    (where you can ask questions and get them answered), as
    well as weekly video trainings, personalized exercises, and
    several other components – all designed to do just one
    important thing:


    Tomorrow, I’m releasing an all-new video that will reveal
    why most people FAIL with this area of their lives – and a
    set of strategies that can help you avoid this all-too-common
    failure… take control… and succeed. Big.

    Watch for my email tomorrow, so you can watch this new
    video, because the information contained in it could really
    make a huge difference to your future.

    At the end, I also explain exactly how my new program
    works, and what to do if you’d like to get access to it…
    and to be included.

    Watch the new video I just posted now:


    …and I’ll talk to you again tomorrow.


  23. Ohhh, damn you Mr. Salty!

    There you go again, putting someone else in the lime light. Why don’t you write more about my turd son not-doctor Harlan Kilstein, the South Beach Scammer? Don’t you know he’s got a big launch planned, too?

    Yes, it’s true.

    Schlubby is almost finished with his brand new info product called, ‘Self Made Finger Girlfriends’. He came up with the idea after four decades of not being able to get a date with an actual woman (okay, the one corpse when he worked in the Boca county morgue doesn’t really not count). He now invents girlfriends on his FINGERS, drawing their faces on the tip of each finger, putting dresses on them, and giving them names.

    Strange though, all of Schlubby’s finger girlfriends have odd names like Frank (I’ve never known a woman named Frank, have you?), Eben (come to think of it, that doesn’t sound like a girl’s name, either), Brendan (wait a minute, that’s definitely not a female name…what’s going on here? I’m starting to worry now…)

    Oh dear! Schlubby’s finger girlfriends are TRANNIES!!!

    Tell me it’s not true!

    (large thud as Mother Kilstein hits the floor).

    (10 minutes later…)

    That little son-of-a-bitch not-doctor Harlan shitstain Kilstein has gone too far! He’s scammed his own mother into believing he is straight. Now it’s certain that I’ll never have any grand schlubbies!

    (second large thud as Mother Kilstein again hits the floor, this time because she was tackled from behind by not-doctor Harlan Kilstein).

    (fade to black)

    Mother Kilstein lies in bed, slowly coming to full consciousness. She’s tied to the bed with large ropes. At the foot of the bed is not-doctor Harlan Kilstein, holding a sledge hammer in his hands.

    ‘Mother, I didn’t want this to happen. I told you not post on that fake robot blog anymore. But you didn’t listen. You did this to yourself. I’s all your fault, and you’ve given me no choice but to stop you.’

    ‘What are you doing with that big hammer, Schlubby?’ Mother Kilstein asks with a look of terror in her eyes.

    ‘It’s called hobbling. It will only hurt a minute.’

    With a blank look in his eyes, not-doctor Harlan Kilstein swings the sledge hammer up and over his head, then in one fell swoop…


    (fade to black)

  24. I do hate Eben Pagan but I also acknowledge that he is very talented and there are a lot of things everyone here can learn from him.

    Even though he is a scumbag he is not only about scamming and syndicating.

      1. @Aaron Sleazy,

        I don’t know who you are but all of you fake pick up artists with fake whois records are usually the same.

        1. It’s wrong to bash a competitor. Not illegal but doing that + linking to your own fake “testimonialed” site is not right.

        2. Saying that his presentation skills are subpar is either pure ignorance or jealousy.

        3. All fake pickup artists rehash content over and over again. It’s nothing different from the fake making money online industry.

        4. I looked up your name in youtube and found nothing – Here is something to learn from Pagan.

        5. I did see a book of yours in amazon but that does not make you a sex star.

        With all of the above being said I still thing Eben pagan is a fuck head and I really have no idea who you are.

        1. @MRRRR,

          I don’t know who you are either, and it’s completely irrelevant for the sake of the argument. And neither is important who I am for the sake of the argument.

          “Eben Pagan’s” presentation skill are very weak. He is unable to get to the point. All his seminars seem to consist in is spreading information, which he had collected in a haphazard way, very thinly over several hours. But it’s not only weak in terms of structure and presentation, he speaks in an incredibly monotonous voice, using plenty of hackneyed phrases, and using cliche after cliche. It only takes a modicum of education to know where he is going after he has spoken a few words.

          For examples of good presentation skills, feel free to check out TED talks, or any university content that is freely available via open courseware initiatives. Even the weakest of those put “Eben Pagan” to shame.

          1. @Aaron Sleazy,

            Thanks for the link (Ted talks).. I didn’t know this website.
            Very nice.

            Have a good one.

          2. @Aaron Sleazy, Ebens stuff is amazing content, he never claimed that he invented it by himself, he brings it all together and that is for me perfect….

  25. Fuck them. Pagan and Walker.
    Here is an email I found in my dummy email account dedicated to all the spammers about his launch.

    === Begin Email ===

    A year or two ago I sent an email out about a
    program that I was recommending. I told people it
    was the last day the program was going to be

    I said it was coming off the market at midnight at
    the latest and possibly earlier.

    Well, as it turned out, the program was pulled
    from the market about six hours early.

    I heard from almost 20 people who were really
    bummed out. They were waiting until the last
    second before they “pulled the trigger”…

    Many of them asked me to contact the product
    creator to see if they could sneak in an order
    “after the fact”. I tried… but I couldn’t get
    any special favors. The product was done, it was
    off the market… and it has never been released

    That product was by Eben Pagan. And history is now
    repeating itself.

    This is the last day that his “Self Made Wealth”
    program is on the market. I’m not sure exactly
    what time it’s coming off the market – it will
    probably be midnight pacific U.S. time, but it
    could be earlier.

    My message is this: don’t delay. You might miss

    Eben’s offer is amazing. He has a full-out
    guarantee. And the extra bonus package I’ve put
    together is awesome.

    Here’s my link:

    CLICK for “Self Made Wealth” + bonuses

    === /End email ===

    Of course it goes on and on.. Someone should put these people in jail.
    scarcity is bliss.

    1. @Eben Walker,

      What depresses me even now is that people still fall for these fake scarcity tactics. Aside from the fact that lying about the availability of a product is doubtless illegal, manipulating people in this way just makes me want to vomit. The IM industry has a lot to answer for.

  26. @Cosmic Connie,

    I didn’t want to call you a troll per se, but the “I’ve got a friend who…” is a typical troll technique. It could really be a true story, though, so I want to distance myself from an attack at your person. Your statement is at least ambiguous, and I hope I’ve made it clear why I view it this way.

    1. @Aaron Sleazy, There’s no “story”; I was simply recounting a conversation I had on Twitter. I thought I made it pretty clear in my comment that I was exchanging Tweets with a person whom I consider to be a friend, but that I DISAGREE with his opinion about Eben Pagan’s “innocence.” Contrary to what you seem to be implying, this person was not claiming that Eben helped him make millions, nor was I attempting to use such a claim to defend Eben or anyone else. My Twittermate merely indicated that he thinks Eben doesn’t deserve the Salty treatment. While I do NOT agree with him on this point (you do understand this by now, don’t you? I don’t know how else to explain it), I am still friendly with him.

      When I write my comments here I sometimes try to express a more or less balanced view, which prevents me from coming out swinging and calling everyone who disagrees with me a douchebag or fucktard or worse. If that is what you mean by “ambiguous,” then it would seem that you and I have a difference of opinion about word meanings. (Thanks to @Madge Crikey and @Deiss Affiliate for attempting to ‘splain things too.)

      1. @Cosmic Connie, I’ve thought before that people didn’t deserve the Salty “treatment” but they do seem to work hard to earn it. Kool-aid is, if devoid of nutrition, still sweeter than vinegar.

  27. More “good times”…

    not only did Pagan’s launch fall flat. Trey Smith’s latest endeavor looks to have been equally miserable.

    Despite “Retired” Cousin Kern throwing the kitchen sink into the bonus pool, the sales were so miserable Mike Long (thief that even steals from thieves) announced in a sales letter, that with a whopping 2 sales, he and “the Rich Jerk” were top ten affiliates.

    I can only assume the Droid’s word is reaching the general public, and the syndicate “lists” get weaker with each failed launch.


    1. @Chris, Just like the faulty banking system, the Syndicate seems to failing. Can’t wait to see more failed launches in 2011, hopefully this will be the year when the Syndicate finally R.I.P’s. I love watching these guru launches crash and burn with their faulty Frauduct Launch business model.

      How long did they think they could corner the market, cross promote each others frauducts for a ransom of an amount and get away with it.

  28. I think we’re seeing a new trend where the much touted,taunted guru launches fail left,right and center.

    See the email from Mike Long:

    ———————- start quote ———————-

    Hey, Mike Long here.

    Hope you enjoyed your Valentines Day?

    I have some bad news.

    My biz partner Kelly Felix, and I…

    Well our last promotion… it sorta BOMBED.

    For those of you who think all of the “gurus”
    get rich easily, especially off of all those
    high ticket launches, I think this should put
    things into perspective:

    The recent launch that we promoted for Trey Smith,
    simply because we know his stuff is good, and Kelly
    personally used it, has netted us a grand total of…

    TWO sales so far.

    Weirdly enough, 2 sales put us into the top 10
    affiliates at the time! LOL. Some very big marketers
    only had a couple of sales, even with lists with
    hundreds of thousands of people on them!

    It used to be, when you send thousands of leads
    to a big ticket launch, like we did for this one,
    you’re looking at a fat payday. But I guess this
    is a sign of the times.

    It seems like high ticket items just don’t sell
    very well anymore. And I thought for sure this
    launch would do well above others, because it
    seems much more realistic to create simple
    software and sell it for profit.

    And again, Kelly actually used it personally
    and had success with it.

    I also recently read that during Eben Pagan’s
    last launch, a few weeks ago, the #1 affiliate
    had 19 sales. I think Eben publicly announced
    it. (I may be slightly off)

    Am I the only one who is shocked by these numbers?

    I don’t say this to put anyone down.

    In fact, I believe Trey’s product is really high
    quality, and the presentation was good as well.

    But the fact is, people are sick of $1,000+ products…
    at least a lot more than they’ve been in the past.
    I’ve seen it first-hand.

    You may hear about $5-$10 million dollar launches
    every now and then… but without naming names,
    let’s just say that many times those numbers
    aren’t exactly true (or even remotely close).

    But some people have reputations to uphold. And
    when you add-in a 40-50% refund rate (common on
    high ticket stuff), as well as paying out hefty
    affiliate commissions… Yowza!

    Not much left over!

    So, let’s be honest… you guys obviously
    don’t want to pay $1k or $2k or more for
    IM products.

    And I get that.

    I hear you loud and clear.

    If this keeps up, its going to force sellers
    to work harder to provide more value, at lower
    prices. And that’s good for everyone.

    Who woulda thought?!

    While it kinda sucks that we didn’t make a bunch
    of sales, it does allow me to do something which
    I think will be VERY COOL for you.

    And maybe a little stupid for me? (I’ve been known to do that.)

    Here’s why:

    At least 2 dozen people emailed or messaged us
    saying they wanted our bonuses for the Software
    System, but they didn’t want the Software System
    itself (or the $2700 pricetag). We were even asked
    a few times if we would just sell our bonus straight up!

    Well, I think we can do better than that. How about
    $2,616 off of the price? Just an $84 one-time

    But it involves a dilemma.

    I am really OVER product launches. Especially
    after this latest failed attempt.

    Trey’s offer was a unique situation. In the past
    year, I’ve only promoted a handful of launches,
    and it was only via launch-jacking sites (where
    I get a simple blog ranked high in Google for a
    specific product launch name, and “jack” commissions)

    No mailings whatsoever.

    But herein lies the problem:

    Kelly & I have 2 good friends with products coming out
    this year, that we KNOW are good, and we KNOW will
    only be $37 & $47.

    ———————– end quote ———————–

    1. @Dimitri ::

      If at first you don’t succeed :: sell out your list to a Utah boiler room.

      Right Mike and Kelly? You big bad “value” creators you …

      1. @SD, that’s exactly what’s going on… high priced fraud is giving way to cheap lead generators. Utah’s “industry” is going to be busy.

      2. @SD, Not quite. Haven’t sold a lead to anyone since 2007. But thanks for playing…

        1. @Kelly Felix ::

          No boiler rooms for three whole years? Gosh you’re practically a saint.

          It seems to me that at one time or another almost every one of the Utah boiler rooms mentioned here has processed Rich Jerk leads. And peoples still complain to me about it.

          Of course :: once you pass in your leads they may bounce around inside the boiler rooms for years and years without further authorization. That’s not all your fault … but it’s not not your fault either.

          Good day sir.

          1. @SD, People still complain to me about it too. But legally I’m not allowed to say I sold the company in 2008. So I won’t say that.

            And my mom says I’m a saint, so there.

            1. @Kelly Felix, “legally” you can’t make false income claims either, but don’t let that get in your way.

  29. um, I wouldn’t say the man’s perfect, but I have some of his courses. Out of everyone in the syndicate he seems the most legit, content-wise. I mean, I was in high school when I discovered David D. He’s had gorgeous women actually in some of his products and when he goes into the material, and you actually put what little bits you can into action.
    Shit works. He’s made most of his money from the dating niche (I think) and for good reason. They all work, it’s just a matter of application. In one course there was a guy, Sean Stephenson. 3 ft tall and getting laid.
    2 weeks of applying Personal Power II, and what I learned from the advanced series of david d material finally got me all the play I could handle as a broke college freshman at NYU.
    Well, there was the work and belief involved. Especially the belief, trying to connect and have relationships with people, focusing on self improvement.
    I will concede that the Syndicate group appears shady. Especially since I didn’t know about Eben until after reading The Game, googling, then finding out Kern wrote the coppy for Strauss’s annihilation method. People in the industry of selling hope aren’t in the same circle as a conspiracy, but more, because people usually attract people with similar passions. My dad coincidentally became obsessed with the whole MLM and internet marketing thing while I was in high school obsessed with getting laid. I’m saying all this to say what?
    There has to be at least some value in the marketplace for what they do if guys like Eben are getting paid so much. It’s not the real mafia so it’s hard to give conspiracies too much credence. Plus the material actually helped me out. The content was good, plus from what I understand Pagan guts books at inhuman speed, summarizes the best points, uses personal anecdotes and packages it into products with all we need to know so that we don’t have to do all the research he’s done. The man constantly references where he gets his info, and it’s usually top notch “$20” books on amazon. Even bought a few of them myself. The whole nature of infoproducts is getting people what they’re too lazy or incapable of digging up themselves and presenting the best of that information into something easily consumed and most of all understood. When I think of the hundreds of books referenced in some of the material, the act of laying it all out and then TEACHING it in practical ways, then it’s not a “frauduct” at all. It has value.

    1. @daxor, The truth is, Eben Pagan just taught you how to scam women, to be someone you were not. It turned you into an “emotion thief.” You didn’t “connect and have relationships with people,” your manufactured stunt double was always there, getting in the way of reality and making it impossible to have a genuine relationship. You may think it was worth it, but in the long run, you may have missed the relationship of your dreams because you were pointing your sundial in the wrong direction. You also delayed becoming your own person, something ultimately far more fulfilling, and that tradeoff comes with a deep emotional price you may not realize just yet. It may take a few years, but this WILL all eventually resonate with you, and you’ll use words like, “Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.”

      Then there is the wistful speculation of how you could try to be like Pagan yourself…

      Attributing success to thrown out sales figures is foolhardy, though. Just look at Bernie Madoff.

      It’s also not as simple as simply summarizing and repackaging existing knowledge for people and making a big payday. You left out the part involving exaggeration, hype, false hope, and targeting people who are at a vulnerable point in life. That’s kind of like playing math tricks at the cash register with the severely retarded. But that’s all part of the stew. If that’s the kind of recipe you’re after, this isn’t the place to unload and leave behind whatever pangs of conscience are still keeping you from it.

      1. @Sam the Shrubbist, I never scammed any woman I was with. Never lied about who I was, never gave anyone a false sense of security. I fell in love, and put my heart on the line. Something I never had the courage to do before, and for that I thank Eben. And everyone is vulnerable at some point, or has some deep need to be addressed.
        “It’s also not as simple as simply summarizing and repackaging existing knowledge for people and making a big payday. You left out the part involving exaggeration, hype, false hope, and targeting people who are at a vulnerable point in life. That’s kind of like playing math tricks at the cash register with the severely retarded. But that’s all part of the stew. If that’s the kind of recipe you’re after, this isn’t the place to unload and leave behind whatever pangs of conscience are still keeping you from it.”
        What exaggeration, hype, and false hope?
        It worked. It was because of his Mastery series a that I learned to get more honest and take more risks in my approach TO LIFE, not just just women. I don’t think I was clear, there was no game being played or pick-up lines. He’s the real deal. I never thought I would ever get the cajones to just be me or openly flirt. It wasn’t something that computed for me, before forcing myself to go out on a limb, meet new people and share. The discipline to do my work, go the gym regularly, keep some type of schedule, and not sit on the computer all day fantasizing. I never had to spend boatloads of cash or court women in any rudimentary fashion. When I delved into his stuff, things just started happening that I didn’t think was possible before. College changed everything. I had a breakdown after my first serious relationship, BECAUSE I actually loved someone and wasn’t an emotionless drone looking for skins to slide into. If you’ve actually studied his work, it teaches, “become your own person”.
        It’s all about empowerment.
        And all businesses target some vulnerability. It has to meet consumer needs when things are scarce in their lives. I believe it’s called capitalism. He says, “do this it would get rid of letting that nagging insecurity hold you back. Use the fear for courage” well not word for word, but you get the idea.
        And even though I’ve been through the ringer this past year. It’s helped me grow.

    2. @daxor ::

      Thanks for making me come back and look at this post so I could laugh at the effeminate “man” again.

      Girls aren’t games.

      Tell your Dad to keep his day job.

      Boom! … I just solved all your problems. You’re welcome.

      1. @SD, I never thought of women as “games”. David D. actually attacks that line of thought. If you knew anything about his work you’d know that isn’t something he teaches. That’s more in line with the PUA guys like Mystery and such. His material was a lot deeper. It was about personal development as a human being, not as how much play you could get. It was about aligning yourself with your passions and personal goals, using those as a conduit to get the relationships you want. In other words, I fell in love with one woman, rather than laying my seed in many. There was no “game” involved other than the internal one. No linear chess progression to getting numbers or meeting new people. David D. helped me be me without being so self-conscious about it. I have no regrets, every experience is a learning one.

        My father’s day job is building wealth online. His exact words, “I’ll either die rich or die poor, nowhere inbetween” and I respect that…unlike some salty droid.

        1. @daxor,

          My dad coincidentally became obsessed with the whole MLM and internet marketing thing

          My father’s day job is building wealth online. His exact words, “I’ll either die rich or die poor, nowhere inbetween” and I respect that…unlike some salty droid.

          That’s impressive! Your dad is working off a “pre-failed” business model [[MLM]] in an attempt to build “wealth”, and you respect that? Am I being punk’d?

          Don’t take this the wrong way, but selling any commodity at >5 times market value [[because of “magic abilities”]] doesn’t require business savvy, but rather total business ignorance [[with a dash of fraud]]. If your dad isn’t on the top of the MLM pyramid, he will [[not may]] be among the 99%+ that fail, and end up paying the commission of the <1% on the top of the pyramid.

          Good luck with that.

    3. @daxor, thanks a lot for this comment, I think exactly the same…I did also study at university and found the materials extremly helpful….I also acquired the stated books, my life improved considerably with that knowledge…

  30. I have to stand up for Eben Pagan. I first got introduced to Eben Pagan under his persona David Deangelo. His teachings have changed my life. He helped me take control of my confidence and get the things I wanted in my life such as a beautiful girlfriend, respect, and deep and meaningful friendships.

    Anyone that bashes his program hasn’t gone through it, he spends time and is very very deep. I also followed his business training and I have since been able to create a successful online business that makes me almost $4,000 a month and I have plans on doubling that income in a year and half…

    I have been reading your blog Salty Droid, and I have come to the conclusion that although you may be right about certain topics, I believe your just a big douche. You badmouth other people and you think you are superior.

    I think that its sad that you live your life with hate and contempt, and I hope that you find what you’re looking for in your life, because I can tell your full of hate and despair..


    1. @Ronnie Sanddlin, Jeez, all of that in-depth training with Eben/David apparently didn’t teach you much about logic and analysis. If the best you can come up with regarding Salty’s content and motives are statements such as these…
      1. “I have come to the conclusion that although you may be right about certain topics, I believe your [sic] just a big douche. You badmouth other people and you think you are superior.”
      2. “I can tell your [sic] full of hate and despair.”
      …then it would appear that the “depth” you imagine your mentor to possess is something that cannot really be taught.

      Here’s a hint: Hopelessly cliched pop-psychoanalysis of someone whose opinions make you uncomfortable doesn’t count as depth.

      1. @Cosmic Connie, I didn’t claim to make any psychoanalysis on the Salty Droid, I was merely pointing out that although he may be right on certain areas of debate…no one that is healthy would create a website soley based around bashing people there is just to much life to love and life to live…

        As for Eben Pagan I firmly stand behind his teachings. I highly recommend you check them out before you bash the guy, that’s all I’m saying. I have purchased several products from Eben and I have been 150% satisfied with everyone of them…

        Like I mentioned before I completely credit him for changing my life and helping me gain confidence not only in my personal life, but also in my professional life as well…I hope that clears up any misunderstandings…


    2. @Ronnie Sanddlin,

      If he thinks he’s superior to Eben Pagan and the others featured on this blog, it’s mostly because he is.

      1. @Eli Barr,

        How can you agree? You haven’t seen anything from Ronnie, which validates [[or verifies]] anything that Pagan “taught” him, did much [[if anything]] to further his “professional life”.

        The sites I chose to display [[which I could validate are his]] don’t show any level of success in even getting traffic, let alone whatever he is trying to do with them [[total mystery…to me anyways]]. Perhaps he’s trying to rank for some non-searched longtail keyword phrases, so he can sell his own brand of expertise.

        The Jewellery site [[which is his Mother’s site, assuming it’s his parents that hold title to the property]], was only shown because any transaction fails upon checkout [[error below]], and can’t be completing any sales [[even if there was traffic, which there is not]].

        If that isn’t enough this should be


        [[randomly generated filler used by website “designers” on non-published/offline sites [[to test text flow, and eventually replaced with real copy…or perhaps it was copy written by Kilstein….if it is, it’s some of his best work]].

        This post is not about convincing Ronnie or you about Pagan’s inadequacy, but rather providing any person on the fence about Pagan [[and his “teachings”]], the truth behind Ronnie’s “unsolicited” testimonial and “confession”, and your cheerleadership.

        PS – In Ronnie’s defense, Oliver Turner’s [[nee Talamayan]] site [[staff in seconds]] was not functioning either, and he was able to generate $10Million dollars per year [[video confession still available on youtube]], before he let it expire because he couldn’t afford to pay the $10 to renew it. However, those are gross faux sales, and once you subtract the faux expenses from the faux sales, you are left with $1.00-$1.50 in faux net profit, but that is pure faux profit that goes right into your faux pocket. Except when you try to pay your domain renewal bill with it…those bastards tell you to Fauxgetaboutit.

        Secure Connection Failed

        An error occurred during a connection to limitlessbyleigh.com.
        SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. (Error code: ssl_error_rx_record_too_long)

        1. @_cartman_, Hey dude I want to first off start by congratulating you on your extensive research into my life, which is crazy…really crazy…not normal…but I’ll forgive you I wouldn’t expect less on this website…

          The websites you have uncovered are on my shared account I use to help out family members and a dumping ground of sorts for me to test out projects I work on for my clients. Most of the sites are incomplete or are pieces of other projects I am working on. Not that that needs any explaining…

          I think the deeper question is why does my statement defending Eben Pagan warrant such a response? Very weird stuff going on on this website…


          1. @Ronnie Sandlin, It’s not your “statement defending Eben Pagan,” it’s your ‘defending’ Eben Pagan. And you haven’t offered any substantive defense, just out-of-place fanboy comments that disregard any differing reality.

            Given the many substantial posts and huge number of comments on this blog that contradict your intentionally uninformed opinion, it’s odd that you would attempt to promote it here.

            1. @LogicBot I read through the comments and I think that 90% of the people that commented haven’t purchased a single Eben Pagan product and the other 10% that have are just bitter that making money online isn’t easy.

              It’s taken me 4 years to learn how to make money online, and I think that if people are looking for a magic bullet there isn’t one… I’ll tell you this though

              Frank Kern- Opened my mind to info products, and surveying your market before creating a product.

              Eben Pagan – taught me how to take control of my time, my emotions, and I learned strong fundamentals of copywriting…

              Ryan Deiss – I learned a lot about PPC adwords campaigns…

              I think that you get what you want to take out of any Guru. Yeah a lot of the information can be found online for free, but that’s not what I purchased when I bought each of their products. I was looking for a source that presented and aggregated the ideas in an easy to digest product.

              I believe in that regards I got 150% of my money’s worth on all of these products…

              I read this blog from time to time. I agree with The Salty Droid sometimes, and after reading his bio I can see he probably has the best intentions at heart. But I can objectively say that there are more than one side to each story and nothing is good or bad.

              I will stand by that I have learned a lot from these gurus and I haven’t felt ripped off, taken advantage or violated. My business is strong, and growing and I know in my heart who and where I learned a lot of good information from..


            2. @Ronnie Sandlin said:

              “I read through the comments and I think that 90% of the people that commented haven’t purchased a single Eben Pagan product and the other 10%…”

              If you’re going to pull numbers out of your ass, keep in mind that people are going to assume that’s where everything else you say also comes from.

              You are defending these people because, by doing so, you are defending your own fragile ego and the previous choices you made to give them your money.

              However, you didn’t need them. You didn’t need what they pretended to offer. They prayed on your hopes, dreams, and self doubts.

              They didn’t “give” you anything that was not already within your reach. They took your money and gave you what was already all around you but that you did not fully value, simply because it was free, without exaggeration, and yours for the asking. Instead, they took what you already had, put it in a shiny new box far larger than the actual contents, and sold it back to you.

              Allowing these people credit for pushing your buttons and capitalizing on your personal struggles forces you to be a lesser person than you really are.

              Nobody needs that.

  31. Aw man you’re so right! Turns out everything they taught me was a big joke…

    Thank you so much for making me realize the error of my ways…

    Man and to think I was stupid enough to think I was learning something. Man I’m a scmuck… I think i’m going to quit this whole internet marketing gig and get a day job…

    I don’t know how their techniques have worked this far but now that I find out they are nothing more than liars I know they my business can’t possible sustain itself anymore…

    Thank you Salty Droid and Friends… Thank you so much

    You are 100% right


    1. @Ronnie Sandlin, “Their techniques…” “Their…” “Their…” “Their…”

      What did you do before you purchased all this magical wisdom? Just sit in the corner and drool?

      You have no idea how crazy you sound. Try drinking something besides Kool-Aid.

  32. You think your smarter than everyone else “Salty Droid” I think your not…a truly smart person would not dedicate so much of his or her life to being an internet troll…

    You think that people that purchase these guys products are dumb as well. If someone wants to purchase a guru’s products let them if it makes that person happy… If you don’t like the product return the product its really not difficult.

    I know you’re trying to wrap up your internet trolling into a holier than though I will save the dumb people persona but in the end a troll is a troll. I read through a bunch of your articles. I agree with some, I disagree with some. I voice one opinion and you and your troll friends get all stalker psychopath on me…Its just weird, I though I was contributing to your blog. But it turns out I was just feeding into this craziness.


    1. @Ronnie Sandlin,

      You are = you’re, not your (that’s possessive)
      It is = it’s, not its (only “its” when possessive)
      these guys products??? don’t even know how to correct that one!

  33. Hey Salty Droid I read that you despise cult of personality figures yet ironically you have become one yourself. Your followers see you as infallible and all knowing but I see the real truth.

    The truth is you love the attention and the drama (quite like a teenage girl)… Love it… You see the very internet gurus you so despise do have a cult of personality persona about them. But at least they give hope, and try to educate…

    You on the other hand promise no such satisfaction. You have gained your cult of personality by merely taking delight in tearing people down…

    So in my book that makes you a bigger doucher than the douches you hate.

    This will be the last post I post on your website. I must admit, though I did get a sick sense of pleasure responding to these comments. But I recognize I can’t get caught up in Internet Trolling.

    I still 100% stand behind Eben Pagan and what he has taught me, no matter what you guys think of this guy.

    -Ronnie Sandlin

    1. @Ronnie Sandlin ::

      Quit trying to provoke me you silly boy … I’m busy.

      We get it … you’re all up on Eben’s jock. Congrats! That’s your right as a free person. I hope his jock leads you to much success.

      He’s in The Syndicate … so he’s on my list … end of that story. If you don’t like it … then don’t like it. Embrace your rage for me … maybe it will help you learn something about yourself and the situation you find yourself in … the truth almost never comes in a box.

      Lastly :: maybe you could say I have a “cult following” … like The Rocky Horror Picture Show has a cult following. A small group of fans dedicated to some work of art too weird to be mainstream successful … but with some genuine underlying value to the people who appreciate it.

      A “cult of personality” is something quite different. Read a book … maybe one about Stalin if you want to avoid future confusion on this particular issue.

      There … I spoke to you. Happy now?

      1. @SD,

        hah…yeah…Andros…ummm…no comment

        The girl on the left is Sarah Goldberg Madison
        [[don’t know how she belongs]], the picture was labelled “marketing posse”.

        I think this may be her…


        [[She does voice overs]]

        Who stole Eben Pagan’s balls? Or was he just born without any?

        they were found and tacked on [[at Burning man 2011..apparently your post upsetted him]]……



        1. @_cartman_,

          Those pictures…the hot pink striped wrist-warmers, the pink patterned teeny-tiny pants…the goofy hat. Is this guy “balding”? Is that why he has funny hat day every single day? (Doesn’t he know NLP can cure baldness and help him gain three inches and become “Super well-endowed”? Get Tim on the phone…stat!)

          This was one of the first back posts I read on this site. I almost didn’t make it past that picture.

        2. @_cartman_,

          What’s disturbing is comparing Pagan and the woman next to him (his new wife, I presume).

          They have incredibly similar mouth, eyes, browline, hair and physique. Their noses are kinda similar too.

          1. @Hmmm,

            They look more like siblings, don’t they?

            But the guy wearing the pants seemingly sewn from upholstery fabric(!) shades of Scarlett O’Hara wearing a dress made from the draperies.

            And the wedding “gown”. She may be a perfectly lovely woman but that dressed looked like “When Hookers Marry”.

            1. @Barbara ::

              “When Hookers Marry” is maybe like the best idea ever for an exploitative reality show. You should have kept it to yourself because now I own and I’m going to take it straight to the top!

          2. @Hmmm ::

            Yeah :: they’re twinners … no doubt about it.

            Go watch her doing his exact schtick on video …


            … if you dare.

            Personally :: I think a half-gay-narcissist marrying himself is the funniest thing that has ever happened in this particular SpaceTimeContinuum …

            PS :: Eben & Annie … please consider that sentiment my wedding gift to you both. May your futures include the complications that come with a federal indictment.

            In other words :: Mazel Tov!

          3. @SD, LOL Now that was stratospherically funny. You actually caused me to shift in my chair, which normally takes several hours and a high fiber meal. Good to see you running on all 400 pneumatic cylinders.

      2. @SD, In that first pic, Pagan’s pants look like dumpster salvaged, stitched-together paper McDonald’s sacks. If he turned around you’d probably see Golden Arches.

  34. thanks for these pictures of eben. the lessons i got by looking at these pictures are priceless. one of them : ” people are not what you think they are”

  35. Ross Jeffries is the last person who should be on here criticizing someone else’s ethics – or lack thereof.

    Remember “Bishop’s Journal,” Ross?

    For those of you who don’t know what “Bishop’s Journal” was, there was a “student” of Ross named “Bishop” who wrote a number of fantastic stories on the “Speed Seduction” mailing list.

    Eventually these stories (and others) were gathered together and sold as “Bishop’s Journal” which cost $99 if I recall – it was a big book with 3 CDs.

    People who challenged Bishop’s stories were told to shut up on the list… but it later turned out Bishop was a complete and utter fraud who made everything up – and was actually arrested for stalking!

    Ross was eventually forced to admit that he had NEVER seen Bishop pick up a real woman in his life – but he had no problem selling Bishop’s phony stories in his catalog and on his website.

    Nice try ROSS!

    1. @John,

      Thanks for your submission. All comments submitted to the blog become the property of SD Industries, GmbH, Bavaria Branch Office.

      As such, your comment will be included in the upcoming SD compilation CD, titled, “IMers Talk Smack About Their Competition, Volume I.”

      Don’t worry though, there will be a pre-launch special discounted price since everyone knows IMers don’t make money online.

  36. I just thought I’d relay the email sent out to Eben’s list

    Subject: Only 59 Minutes” — now if that doesn’t make you act…don’t worry; for there is sure to be another offer within the next 12 hours.

    Here’s the message:
    “In just under an hour I’m interviewing Brendon Burchard – the founder of Experts Academy – LIVE… and you can listen in as my personal guest.

    I’m planning to “dig” into Brendon’s brain, and get his best techniques for selling millions of dollars worth of information products, advice, coaching and books”

    I like how he uses 59 minutes…So, I’m guessing what ever 99 slots of Dog Shit gets pumped here will go for $1999…Shit I better get on that call..I’ll get to hear Brendan have his brain dug into.

  37. Some of you people are truely fucking retarded.

    All you idiots screaming that David D doesn’t release valuable products, it couldn’t be any farther from the truth. In fact, the whole reason David D dominated the online dating world, was because the quality of his seminars/dvds were better than 95% of the shit some other dating gurus are trying to spew.

    I don’t know what Eban Pagan knows about marketing, I doubt he knows shit. But he absolutely was killer in the seduction communities. I think now he just got desperate and is making a fool of himself trying to sell marketing material.

    One thing I will say though is I met David D years ago and he’s one of the coolest/down to earth people you will know. ALL the dating products he released were TOP QUALITY and they ACTUALLY HELPED A TON OF PEOPLE! He also use to give away a lot of free, very valuable content for free.

    In the dating world, I considered him one of the most intelligent gurus and I still do. As far as venturing over into marketing, I think he sold out a bit in that respect I don’t really like that fact. The guy sure as hell knows a lot about seduction, but not marketing. I would never buy his marketing shit so in that respect I understand people talking trash. He should have just stuck to what he was good at as now he’s coming off a little too desperate to make money.

    But I had to right this post so people aren’t led astray. He did more for the dating community than any other single person you can think of. Ross Jefferies, Mystery Method, they all had effective techniques. But David Ds was most mainstream, and most overall effective. His shit works, it still does, and like I said he helped TONS OF PEOPLE get better with women. I’ll leave it at that.

    1. @THATGUY,

      Wow, the shills just can’t stop shilling? What about having a look at this thread and answering some specific questions? You know, maybe how about Eben’s connection to the “syndicate”, or, hey, maybe even his lame-ass products. It’s not even the fact that he’s peddling crap that upsets people but his highly questionable business practices.

  38. First off, I like the fact you don’t really have that much dirt on Eben…

    I came here from an article I saw on the verge and after watching the video Scamworld: The Movie.

    I think you’re spot on, and it’s really eye opening stuff. I’ve always had my suspicions on how it all really works.

    That said, I was really surprised to see Eben on the list. I guess if he’s really part of the syndicate that kind of makes him automatic. But hey.

    In all honesty, I think Eben is fantastic.

    This is a guy that has actually gone out there and genuinely built an information business – and if anyones come across dating material, you’ll know it’s not garbage.

    I think he’s a great teacher and always offers tremendous value.

    I’ve learnt a lot (LOADS!) just from the free content he puts out there, and the one course I have gone on to buy (Wake Up Productive) was tremendous.

    I kind of get why you might want to slam him. I mean, perhaps purely on association with other syndicate members is enough. But this guy 100% delivers valuable content.

    I was actually recently thinking of buying one of his other courses for $97.

    I get the fact you can get this info elsewhere and through other mediums, but the way he packages his content, presents, and delivers it…I mean I honestly think it’s second to none.

    Do you have any particular issues with any of his other programs that maybe just haven’t been revealed to me yet?

    Thanks! And keep up the good work, because I definitely know a lot of these other ‘gurus’ are just a bunch of punks! I’m glad there is someone out there exposing them for who they are.

    1. @Mix,

      are you f*cking retarded? Salty has a ton of dirt on Eben.

      Isn’t it a coincidence that there are two comments on “Eben Pagan” showing up on Salty Droid’s website in short succession that sound as if they have been written by the same person? No, I am not talking about mine. :P

      1. @N.N., I’m sure SD can check the IP range each comment came from. I only wrote my own. :)

        It’s just my opinion on the things, nothing more. Don’t believe it really warranted an emotional response, but hey-ho.

        I can only really talk from personal experience, and I’ve always learnt a tonne from Eben.

        His association to the syndicate does take him down a peg or two in my estimation now though. He could just focus on providing genuine value via his dating business, and be done with the rest of it.

        1. @Mix,
          Ahoy good Sir,

          Check my point of view. We can be more flexible in this.

          Eben is a good conceptual expert and he teaches well compared to bunch of other. I won’t lie if I say I’ve learned a lot from some of his stuff.

          But we’re not questioning his expertise here. It’s his agenda.

          He sells expensive and he is armed with high pitch sales guys as well.

          Not to mention some of his programs are rehashed 80%, just laid out in different format. And he promotes others from the cartel that literally sell almost the same product (same concept, same methods, same original sources of info, different face).

          In my experience, he is difficult to type.
          Few years ago I was also hooked for his stuff and spent a bunch of money. My friend (graduated psychologist) told me he finds patterns in his videos (words, gestures) which led to have something in mind.

          Few years later, the “cartel” news went out and his agendas were put in question. For me and my values, he is not 100% sincere. He is good, proficient, but not 100% sincere.

          Or otherwise said, keep your guard up. Learn stuff from them, yet keep in mind they will relentlessly try to sell you stuff and sometimes they may succeed.

          And if you look around in the internet, Eben is not the only guy that teaches well. There are tents (for sure even more) of good people that won’t charge you $2k and will teach you if not the same, even more.

          I’ve seen ~12 week courses for $97 which, in the matter of fact, are even more professional than most of the cartels work (which in some cases is total garbage tbh…yea mr Kern)

          1. @Arcador,

            You put into words exactly how I feel about Eben.

            He can be good, but like you say – there is definitely a sense of a hidden agenda there somewhere so I certainly don’t take what he says as gospel.

            Thanks for your thought out response.

          2. @Arcador, it is really hard to understand with all that torrents out there and the return policies….

  39. @ salty droid So what is it in particular about this Self Made Wealth product that you find fraudulent or to be a scam? Oh wait, you haven’t actually seen the product, nor properly tested it yourself. You’re just a jerk trying to destroy an innocent man’s reputation, based on your own very flawed logic, negative prejudices and aggressive opinions about any form of marketing.

    The truth is, the product is excellent and anyone who follows through on what Eben teaches inside it will become incredibly wealthy. You should be properly testing the product out before pulling out the machine guns and calling it a fraud and a scam. Also, you should lose the sarcasm and rudeness, it makes you look like a complete jerk and not someone whose opinion should be trusted.

    Also what do you do for a living that makes you such a saint? And have you escaped the rat race, or are you another jealous rat racer who is too lazy to make and sell their own products (or run some other form if business) and would rather just complain about everyone who is successful instead?

    Also, why go so small and look at eben?

    Why not look at Obama and the political brainwashing we are subjected to? Or the fast food industry that is killing millions of Americans every year? Pick on real enemy’s, whose products you have actually analyzed.

    1. Jim anonymous ::

      Hating on Obama is too trendy for me :: but Jens Stoltenberg had better watch his ass … I’ve had just about enough of his Norwegian imperialism … or his fascist socialism … one of those two things is the thing that really has me annoyed with Jens Stoltenberg.

    2. @Jim anonymous,

      The truth is that if the product really was excellent as you say, you’d be providing some evidence instead of just empty assertions.

      And anyway, why are you going so small and criticizing Droid? There’s the World Bank and the IMF to worry about.

    3. @Jim anonymous said:

      “anyone who follows through on what Eben teaches inside it will become incredibly wealthy.”

      Wow, that guarantee is ALMOST as good as a typical syndicate member’s guarantee. And you didn’t even include three paragraphs of hard-to-read small gray disclaimer text hidden at the bottom saying, “(*)only kidding” like Mike Koenigs might.

      But hey: “ANYONE” can become incredibly wealthy? Well, that’s incredibly incredible!

      Even a 79 year old barely-literate grandmother on food stamps, living in a leaky trailer, who is desperate and hawks everything to borrow the money to buy Eben’s “coarse?” She’s going to hit a home run? Because if she doesn’t, she can’t afford to pay for her medical prescription deductible for the next couple of years. No biggie, though – based on what you say, it sounds like a gamble worth taking, since there is a 0% risk. Oh, and she’s “100% committed,” and has a “can-do mindset,” so don’t worry about that. It’s her heart and kidneys that are the bigger problem, but luckily for Eben, her failing organs don’t control her mastercard!

      How about a broke, unskilled, 19 year old day laborer with no mathematical aptitude whatsoever, who has an unemployed wife and a baby on the way, and no medical insurance. Is this the answer to THEIR prayers? If they sell their furniture and skip a few doctor’s visits to buy Eben’s “coarse,” will they become “incredibly wealthy?” They’re ready to bet the farm based on your “100% guarantee.” And don’t worry, they’re also “totally committed” and have that “can-do mindset” as well. Not to mention a big bottle of sleeping pills in the glove compartment of their barely-running car, in the event they get too depressed living in it, should that “can-do attitude” and Eben’s “life changing material” not be quite enough to take them to the promised land.

      Of course, why would Eben sell something that he can just use himself to get “incredibly wealthy?” Why not keep it simple and keep that “incredible wealth” to himself? If he’s just being a “nice guy,” he could always give it away for free, or for the price of a paperback (say, $4.99).

      Or, how about if Eben first helps EVERYBODY in the world to become “incredibly wealthy,” and instead of paying him mere THOUSANDS of dollars for his “coarse,” they all each give him a million dollars of their new, “incredible” wealth? Wouldn’t that be better? He’d be richer than Bill Gates in no time, and he could buy the entire desert, and have his own Burning Man event, and participate in crotch grabbing to his heart’s content.

      Just think, if Eben was proactive and taught everyone the “big secrets,” then everybody would be a millionaire: even the kid who hands you your sack of cheeseburgers at the drive through window. EVERYONE could also retire, and we could all build spaceships like Richard Branson, and explore the solar system in search of new planets to build squeeze pages on.

      All that’s left now is for you to get in touch with your pal Eben, and get the ball(s) rolling. Be sure to keep us posted on how “Project-Everyone’s-Incredibly-Wealthy” is coming along! Oh, and by the way, what’s the name of your unicorn? Tell it we all said, “hi!”

      1. @Burgermeister Meister Burger,

        You’ve clarified my life’s ambition for me, finally.
        I am desperate to ‘explore the solar system in search of new planets to build squeeze pages on.’

        Mind-bogglingly simple, now why didn’t I think of that myself after 50+ years of thinking?

        I salute you, sir.

      2. @Burgermeister Meister Burger,

        Money doesn’t work they way that you think it does. In a nutshell, working for money by trading hours worked for money, is the least effective way of making money and means you are lower down the food chain, while someone else higher up the food chain (company owners etc) are reaping the rewards.

        If you want to get yourself a better perspective on this, and you want to save money and not fork out for a product like self-made-wealth (which also came with several of eben’s other products including his guru blueprint), then read Cashflow Quadrant by robert kiyosaki, and The Rules of Wealth by Richard Templar. That’ll give you some better grounding.

        Perhaps you’re right that there are some people who would struggle with Eben’s course. Though I’d say the majority of people, if they follow through with what they learn, they’ll make 100 fold their money back.

        I know posting more on this blog is pretty much a losing battle for me, as most people here prefer to work for organizations that operate according to Eben’s SMW principles (corporations, the government, etc), than to become the people at the helm of something of their own creation.

        That’s why I’ve never entered this ‘guru’ game like Eben has. I help my friends, and others, one person at a time, and have helped many to become millionaires and escape the rat race. I’ve supported numerous charities, and help out where I can speaking at my old high school. However while I’ve been encouraged to enter the ‘guru’ game, I’ve stayed away from it as it’s scary how hated you become once you start trying to charge high prices for your time in this niche, you’re better off being in other ‘non-IM’ niches where people appreciate your products and services, as opposed to hating you without even having seen the product at all.

        1. @Joe Anonymous,

          “I’d say the majority of people, if they follow through with what they learn, they’ll make 100 fold their money back.”

          Why not 90 fold? Why not 120 fold? It’s because you are merely guessing, and there is no documentation to support that speculation. If such numbers were even remotely true, Eben himself would be the first to document it, and he’d soon be richer than Bill Gates.

          It is up to the claimant to prove the veracity of such claims, NOT the person who questions those claims.

          You also said: “Money doesn’t work they way that you think it does.”

          That would be incorrect, Joe. You need to know who your audience is before you expound on such things. Blogs attract many different types of readers and commenters, and this one is no exception.

          I’m a lifelong entrepreneur. I’ve built legitimate, real world, sizeable businesses. The last was a multi-million dollar tangible consumer goods operation that I owned for many years. Not a pie-in-the-sky “internet marketing” dream factory, but a substantial entity with exclusive, physical products and all the complexity such an operation entails. I’m hardly speaking as someone on the outside ‘looking in.’

          I’ve commented because I’m truly disgusted by this across-the-board exploitation. I’d like to see people avoid the harmful effects of having their lives put on detour or damaged due to soulless pitchmen who sell amped-up fantasies to one and all, without any regard to real market conditions, individual circumstance, or capacity. That’s an unconscionable scam no matter what veneer is used to cloak it.

          I’ve actually seen Eben’s inane, rambling theoreticals because I’ve been asked about that pablum by people wanting my advice. Eben Pagan would be a nobody were it not for posturing, and the scheming constructs of a dubious syndicate that pushes hoakum as the norm.

          I am more than certain when I state that most people would find themselves nowhere sustainable with Eben’s “materials,” unless by accident or with no thanks to said “materials.” By “most” people, I mean “most” people. I’ve spent years out in the trenches, and employed a large enough cross section of people to know the baseline, and the reality.

          I applaud people like SD who help lift the curtain and reveal the truth to those who might otherwise find themselves manipulated by these wolf packs.

      3. @Burgermeister Meister Burger,

        I said anyone who follows through on what they learn, that’s the problem, many don’t follow through and actually bother to implement what they learn. This isn’t some push button make money scam. You have to be bothered to put the work in. As at 2011, 5.08% of American households have reached millionaire status. Even teaches you the things they have done to get there. It’s not project everyone , it’s project everyone who can be bothered and who doesn’t give up at the sight of obstacles. Btw there is also a money back guarantee, not hard to send an email to get a refund if it’s too hard, or you have regrets.

        Tell me exactly what part of his Product’s training you don’t agree with? Oh wait, you haven’t actually seen any of it, let alone gone through and tested it to prove to yourself that it doesn’t work.

        1. @Jim anonymous, No “money back guarantee” (limited time or otherwise) can ever make up for wasted time or lost opportunity.

          1. @Burgermeister Meister Burger, its not a waste of time. There are a lot of ‘waste of time’ products out there. This is not one of them. You haven’t seen the product, you just hate that he charges a high price for it. That doesn’t make it a scam.

  40. @Jim Anonymous

    I’ve purchased Eben’s products before.

    I know what I’m talking about, yes they do work, so far I have been making about $500 a week from a website that I built following what I learned in Guru Blueprint.

    However… for $2000, that was a rip off. It was boring too, which almost made me give up on it – he needs to get some presentation skills, and I could have made the same amount of money by just buying someone else’s product that teaches you how to make and sell information products for like $97 or even $47.

    Yes his stuff works, that’s not the issue here though, it leaves a bitter taste when you realize you could have gotten the same information (plus had more money left over to spend on your actual web business), by paying a whole lot less.

    There should be 1 on 1 coaching or something for $2000. I could accept it if he charged $497, but really $2000??? Given that I still had to put in several weeks of really hard work to make his system work for me, I really think that he is taking the piss with that kind of pricing.

    If I were to sell you a bottle of coke for $47, and you found out you can buy pepsi for $2 somewhere else, you’d be pissed off. That’s what this is like. Yes you get what you thought you were paying for, it’s not a ‘scam’, but at a rediculous price that makes you feel like you’ve been robbed.

    Scam no, rip off. Yes.

    He should price this like his dating products, and make it more like $297 or something, even at that price I would have been more happy with it all.

  41. @Jim Anonymous Not to mention that I’m pissed off that he now tries to sell me other stuff too.

    I paid $2000 for ***** sake! I should get everything he ever launches, or his show ponie friends.

    Yes, you’re right his stuff works, but that’s not the point. He’s a rip off artist, who supports other rip off artists at pricing that would not be possible if it was not for his questionable ‘cartel’ tactics.

  42. Eben Pagan has made some excellent products that have contributed to my life. I have not borrowed money to go to a collage but I do still have an urge to learn. To better myself – thus my habits and life situation. I can not wait until he (and others like him) develop an even more efficient way of attaining valuable information and knowledge. Maybe even methods of distributing those messages to others.

    Come to think of it. It is about time we started paying our teachers.

    As far as I can tell these guys have contributed more value into the world than any Hollywood gossip… if you really think about what they are doing it’s really a great accomplishment. Enticing people to develop themselves.

    It is actually easier to critique than to create… Thank you for your coming out though.


    1. @Be Rizzle,

      You have developed yourself into a person who still can’t spell “college.” Congratulations.

  43. While I think the examination of internet marketing tactics is important, and I appreciate that you’re generating discussion about it, I think you’re simplifying and marginalizing people who aren’t as simple as you make them out to be.

    While Eben Pagan is part of the syndicate, I think it’s over-generalizing and irresponsible to paint him as a valueless scam artist.

    Eben has employed tactics that don’t feel authentic to me and I don’t like that. That being said, there’s a lot more to him than that.

    He comes at it from the angle of ‘doing what works’. This doesn’t mean that he has contempt for his customers.

    I’ve spent several thousand dollars on his events and products and I’ve received the value back tenfold. He’s one of the smartest and most evolved people I’ve ever come across and I’ve probably learned more from him than anyone else on the planet.

    I understand that you wouldn’t see any of that from where you’re standing. It’s difficult to evaluate what takes 40 hours to receive, years to process, and that changes the way that you think about everything – if you haven’t experienced it first hand.

    He’s not perfect, but he may be the best teacher I know and I’m very grateful to have done business with him.

    Just remember, these ideas and people you talk about are complex. It’s easy to get attention by using sensational words like ‘fraud’ and ‘scam’. It’s a lot harder, and more valuable, to be constructive.

    1. @Scott James ::

      You wish that were true … because that might mean that you weren’t sr8 up hustled.

      But it’s not … and you were.

    2. @Scott James, It’s all posture and theatrics. One day you will realize you weren’t passed the Olympic torch. It was just a handful of bullshit. Don’t pass that bullshit on. Break the chain.

  44. This “article” is nothing more than ad hominem. If Eben is committing actual crimes, please provide us, and law enforcement for the matter, with actual, verifiable evidence instead of resorting to ad hominems and character assassination.

  45. it is so unbelievable…..you can get all Ebens products for free out there….his content is brilliant, the best I have ever found….it is quite harmfull how he is commented here!! Do you complain about a Porsche, because it costs ten times more than a VW Polo (and think the “Ferrari” can be consumed for free….)

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