180 Comments »

bohica said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
first.
LOSER!! ::   -14
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@bohica, hmmm….was it “the last shall be first…or first shall be last…” (thumbsy-wise anyhow)…
  0
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 10:04 am

Rafael Marquez said:
I think it’s bullshit that Death Ray is having the state of Arizona pay his defense maneuvers. But, then again, the state of Arizona isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer.
  +1
[Reply]

Cow Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@Rafael Marquez,
Moooooo…
  +1
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Jinglebells Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 3:55 pm
@Rafael Marquez, Is he THAT poor?
  0
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Anonymous Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 6:02 pm
@Rafael Marquez, Actually the state is doing a great job. I’ve been following very closely and the state is building an excellent case. The defense is grasping at straws. Stay tuned.
  +6
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 10:04 am
@Rafael Marquez, That motion has not been decided yet (of the State paying for anything)…it’s still on the table waiting for a ruling. Jame’s Defense is just trying to pull whatever they can at this point….it’s getting laughable, but it’s a true waste of the court’s time. I love reading it, though…it shows their desperation which just makes my day !
  +3
[Reply]

Dick Allred Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 10:54 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Rafael Marquez,
Speaking of sharp knives; it doesn’t really take any brains at all to make broad sweeping generalizations about the intelligence of an entire state…Pinhead!
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

Rafael Marquez Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@Dick Allred,
I guess it doesn’t. However, if you’ve been paying any attention to the news coming out of Arizona, sweeping generalizations like that are really a no-brainer.
Don’t get me wrong, Texas is not much better, but Arizona is certainly giving Florida a run for the money as far as stupidity goes.
I won’t get started with Russel Pearce and Gov. Brewer, since they’re really not germane to this conversation.
  +3
[Reply]

Dick Allred Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
@Rafael Marquez,
I am more than aware of the recent events in AZ; from SB 1070 to the horrible tragedy in Tucson. In your defense, if the comment of Jean D accurately represents your viewpoint, than I understand and appreciate where you are coming from. I suspect Jean is right on the money given your clear disdain for Brewer and Pearce.
All politics and ideologies aside, I find it irritating when anyone takes and entire group of people (The entire state of AZ in your case) and slaps an oversimplified label on them (Dull Knives). That’s exactly what you did in your comment and it pissed me off. That’s what prompted my unpopular reply.
However, I should have cooled off and responded in a more civil manner by engaging you in intelligent debate instead of name calling.
I apologize for calling you a pinhead, that was inappropriate.
Next time, I promise to calm down and use the non-primitive part of my brain for a more appropriate response.
  0
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Dick Allred, In defense of Rafael,he’s actually a very sharp,witty blog buddy. If he’s angry about AZ Senate Bill 1070, he has every reason to be, and I totally agree with him, but that’s a discussion separate from this blog.
I must say,in spite of the politics,Arizona is a great state. Having lived in Tucson in the 80s/90s,life was great there. Sedona used to be a pristine, quiet artist community. It’s since been overtaken by New Wagers who sell and buy the idea that one can make a “vortex connection with the red cliffs”. Red rocks are nothing more than the result of high levels of iron oxide in the soil. Yet, this nonsensical notion of “sacred cliffs”, is an important element in how Conman Ray was able to lure knowledge-seeking people to a relatively remote region of the Sonoran Desert,where he sold them bogus ideas/fake rituals, injured dozens of them, and callously ended the lives of 3.
  +6
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 10:45 am

wondering why said:
Thank you Salty for blogging about this today.. I have been reading all the courts docs and it is good to ba able to talk about it..I am sooo glad that Ray finally turned over the audio tapes to the State!! The trial will start very soon!!Keep up the good work Salty!! I love reading all the Twitter posts on the side here.Boy, Jean D and Nancy Ogilvie have been awesome in keeping the truth about Ray out there in front of people who seem clueless to Ray and his nefarious deeds..
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Jinglebells Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@wondering why, There are many people desparately trying to keep the truth out there about these fools. The death rays of this world will swear black n blue that they are not lying, they are telling the absolute truth, they’ll tell you not to listen to anyone else, they will even go so far as to lie to convince people that they are telling the truth, they will try to stop people listening to the truth, blah blah blah. They have become so twisted up in their own interpretation (the one that suits them making millions and screw the rest because that has become their absolute focus) of the law of attraction that they don’t focus on anything but that any more. How many of these people have been in the courts around the world in recent years?
Any self proclaimed guru who claims to completely understand a philosophy such as the law of attraction is dangerous because the only way to real success is to ALWAYS REMAIN A STUDENT AND NEVER CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT OR GURU at what you are attempting to personally achieve. Oh did I just let the secret out?
  +2
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sunnyside Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@Jinglebells, The law of attraction is not meant to be taught because no-one is an expert at it, it is meant to be discovered and lived. Anyone attempting to teach it will be exposed as a fraud because they are.
  +1
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Ain't no law Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 9:47 am
@sunnyside, Yes, but the “law” of attraction is silliness – it ain’t a law. It’s a viewpoint.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 4:50 pm
@wondering why,
Seconded.
  +2
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# 1 February 2011 at 11:02 am

Jack said:
Maybe this can be the new phase after “abandon to Oprah Winfrey network”…
“abandon to jail”.
we can hope anyhow.
  +3
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 12:53 pm

Ross Jeffries said:
I surely hope DeathRay gets his come-uppance. However, what about the complicity of all those media stars who promoted him all those years?
Have any of them come out and expressed their regrets?
Of course not….
WINNER!! ::   +21
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 9:15 am
@Ross Jeffries,
Oprah never posted my comments or replied to me.
WINNER!! ::   +16
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422 Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 1:22 pm
@Bryan Neuman, Oprah is in it for the same reasons James Ray, greed, profit, and control. But then, this is nothing new.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 1:43 pm
@Bryan Neuman, no response, but another was posted here…maybe with more of the leverage though if this is the truth:
“dralcarrol
Posted on Oct 14, 2009 4:37 PM
I hope Ms. Winfrey will address this issue publicly and do the right thing. I submitted the following to the New York Times as an op ed at their request.”
http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/118818
ie if she didn’t allow the post there then it’s nice fodder for NYT
  +5
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 3:39 pm
@Jack, just to clear it up – that is NOT my post on Oprah, here’s the byline:
“Oprah Winfrey Should Apologize for Promoting Dangerous Fraud James Arthur Ray
By Al Carroll”
with none of the evidence of his op-ed in the NYTimes (internet anyhow) that i can see from here now.
  +4
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@Jack, Or is it the Al Carol talked about here???
http://newagefraud.blogspot.com/2007/10/is-al-carroll-apache-or-fraud.html
  +3
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 3:54 pm
@Jack, So for my rambling real-time research we get a good reward:
“Chief Arvol Looking Horse, statement on Sweat Deaths in Arizona”
http://indiancountrynews.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7634
VERY imporant/interesting statement imho:
“We deal with the pure sincere energy to create healing that comes from everyone in that circle of ceremony. The heart and mind must be connected. When you involve money, it changes the energy of healing. The person wants to get what they paid for; the Spirit Grandfathers will not be there, our way of life is now being exploited! You do more damage then good.
No” mention” of monetary energy should exist in healing, not even with a can of love donations. When that energy exists, they will not even come. Only `after’ the ceremony, between the person that is being healed and the Intercessor who has helped connect with the Great Spirit, the energy of money can be given out of appreciation. That exchange of energy is from the heart; it is private and does not involve the Grandfathers! Whatever gift of appreciation the person who received the help, can now give the Intercessor what ever they feel their healing is worth.”
  +5
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@Jack,
Thanks for the post, that makes me feel better.
  +5

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 9:39 am
@Bryan Neuman,
You’re not alone. She didn’t reply to me either, nor do I expect her to. Oprah wears some serious blinders and has created a protective cocoon of denial around herself.
  +4
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Jean D Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:55 am
@Hippo, Good to see you out here on the porch. I think the discussion, in the Droid’s great rooom is about to commence.
  +1
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Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
@Jean D,
Hi, glad to be here. I have a two-liter bottle of Diet Sunkist Sparkling Lemonade. No calories, no booze, just the way I like it.
You are all welcome to have some, and feel free to chug from the bottle in case of an emergency.
  +3
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@Hippo,Sounds good. We’ll hang around and see what SD is serving,too. It is his party after all. Good thing he won’t let crazy LK come around.
  +1

wondering why Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@Hippo,
It is nice to see that that the gang is all here..I miss it when ther are no James Ray Blogs at Salty D so that we can keep abreast of what is happening with the traial etc.
  +1

Duff Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 7:43 pm
@Ross Jeffries,
I’ve confronted several of Ray’s marketing buddies. One threatened a SLAPP suit for my blog post (*cough* Bill Harris *cough*), others have simply ignored me.
Some “leaders” these crooks are!
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 7:50 pm
@Duff, Bill Harrass?
  +6
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Chris Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 4:44 am
@Jack, LOL. That is a killer! I stopped buying Harrarse’s products a while ago. If he is silencing people like SD and now Duff, then I feel vindicated in not buying anymore self-help stuff from him. Long live freedom of expression!
  +5
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
@Duff,
The Ocean of Buddhistic Silence that is Bill Harris has also peacefully deleted his endorsement from YouTube.
  +1
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Duff Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
@Yakaru,
Which endorsement? This one is still up (on James Arthur Ray’s YouTube channel):
Harris did delete Ray’s endorsement of Bill Harris’ Holosync product from his Centerpointe.com home page though–which he was mad about when I blogged about it:
http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/the-hollow-sink-of-push-button-enlightenment-bill-harris-centerpointe-holosync/
  +3
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Yakaru Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@Duff,
On one of Ray’s sites he’d linked to a series of testimonials which had all been deleted when I tried to play them. I can’t find it anymore. Lame answer I know…
Here’s a link to the rest of the story of Bill Harris threatening to ruin Duffs entire life for ever.
http://beyondgrowth.net/beyond-growth-project/the-secret-fails-harris-threatens-to-sue-mcduffee/
  +4
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Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 11:25 am
@Duff, A “SLAPP” suit? You have got to be kidding! That is hilarous…..meaning, that they want your mouth shut that badly. Take it as a compliment, that you were doing too fine a job, and he resorted to ‘weanie-tactics’ to shut-up his critics.
  0
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Duff Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@Moxie,
Yea, SD backed me up here:
http://saltydroid.info/silencing-of-the-lambs/
  +2
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 1:31 pm

Jean D said:
Thank you for this, SD. Finally. You know we DeathRay trial watchers have been counting days. Hey, we could have a watch party on a sacred mountain IF we believed in sacred mountains!
@Rafael The decision to grant Ray’s request for reimbursement hasn’t been granted.
@ww Thanks.It’s just a civic duty. A couple of folks mentioned they wanted to rethink their opinion of JAR after reading our tweets. One girl was saddened,yet grateful, to learn about Sedona.
It’s surprising how there are people who accuse others of being “filled with hatred” or acting “non-spiritual” if you’re angry at or critical. I swear this idea had to have come from scam artist preacher-types like James Ray’s daddy. The down-home Christians I grew up around always said,”If God didn’t want us to be smart and judge, he never would have given us these thinking brains.”
WINNER!! ::   +19
[Reply]

Jinglebells Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 3:51 pm
@Jean D, I have personally experienced the wrath of one of these people when I dared to question his motives. I know personally the serious emotional and financial damage that these people can do. They are dangerous individuals and very sick individuals who are so twisted in their absolute belief that they are right that they are destroying themselves and everyone around them. I also now believe that this was all meant to be. We needed individuals like this to be exposed as frauds to clean society of the rot they are being taught in an industry that has very little if any regulations but deals with the most sensitive and vulnerable thing about us, our emotions. I dont believe there is one person in the secret movie who had a shred of valuable contribution that was original. I believe the entire thing including death rays off shoot camps was all about making money for himself. Money has become the only motivator these people will listen to.
  +5
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Cosmic Connie Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 6:55 pm
@Jean D, From one “hater” to another: I too thank you and Nancy Ogilvie for all you have done over the past year, trying to tweet some sense into people who are in their own little New-Wage bubble. To me it seems incredible that so many folks are still clueless about what JAR has done. (I’m really looking forward to seeing what kind of national media coverage there will be once the trial starts.)
@Bryan Neuman, my thoughts are always with you and your family, as well as the families of JAR’s other victims.
And Salty, thank you as always for your coverage, bad rhymes and all.
You know what would be cool? A widget or animation or something that we could put on our blogs or web sites for a “countdown to the Death Ray trial.” Maybe someone could create one real quickly (hopefully one that would work on older-style Blogger templates too).
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Nancy Ogilvie Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@Cosmic Connie, at least on twitter, most of the people who don’t know of him are from outside the US. the bubble you refer to is some kind self-protecting denial that they must need because they are not ready to look at the part of themselves that would connect them to james. i see it with a lot of his former students as well. they ar trying to remain in this idealistic place of “no judgement”.
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 9:25 am
@Nancy Ogilvie,
You are so right, there is a huge defense mechanism going on here. If I fall for Ray’s BS, then he is later shown to be a fraud, I am then forced to confront my own gullibility and weakness.
That could be too much for some people to handle. They continue to support Ray in order to protect their own self-esteem.
Who wants to feel like a fool?
  +2
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 1:35 pm

what?? said:
SD-
I don’t care what anyone says…you are a truly great rhymer.
I hope you are thinking of words that rhyme with conviction and sentencing and justice and see ya.
  +6
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 2:06 pm

Steven Sashen said:
I think Bob Tzu, founder of Duhism (@duhism), said it best:
The truth will set you free… unless the truth is, “I’m guilty!”
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 2:17 pm

Jacob A. said:
Thank You Sir Salty D for including Yavapai County in your world. Right about now would be a good time for Mr. Death Ray to refresh his NLP skills to be used on his “celly”. He’s not one of the good ol’ boys in town, so even a fair trial is highly unlikely. His attorney Mr. Kelly runs with the ol’ boys, hence the reason DR added him to his arsenal of lawyers.
We have been following another case in the county claiming consumer fraud and racketeering. The good ol’ boys in town have been trying to suppress this case from the media. It involves a small local bank in Prescott…the bank President’s son is “Coincidentally” the presiding judge of Yavapai Superior court. And, the son will not allow a change of venue…says there’s no conflict…:)
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

sitten Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 8:13 pm
@Jacob A., How many in his arsenal? One sure thing with all the court cases that these apparent gurus have had and will have and are having is that the winner is their lawyer. Should make a damn good reason not to screw people over in the first place but stupid is what stupid is and they keep on doing it.
  0
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 2:59 pm

hmmmm said:
Its good for Byron Katie that she didnt do hot boxes (misnamed Sweat Lodges)
Here is an idea for some street theatre on the courthouse steps.
People can show up as supporters of James Ray–dressed as pirates.
Arghhhh!!
  0
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 8:58 pm

PUAScum said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I have a confession to make.
I am currently selling a plagiarized PUA product to make money & become rich by basically producing something out of NOTHING…
I have never had a girlfriend, kissed a girl, asked a girl out, had sex with a girl or gone out with a girl. I’ve never even kissed a girl in the cheek or touched her body.
Despite that I still feel fine selling my plagiarized pua product with rehashed content from dozens of products with original content.
Here’s the thing – not only am I just interested in the money but I am also interested in the con itself. I ENJOY the con…
It’s just fascinating that a man can steal another fellow’s intellectual property & start selling it in a shiny package with a slick name for MORE money & in MORE quantity.
I mean c’mon, I don’t understand what’s the problem?
All rich scumbag robber barons have been doing this for generations. Andrew Carnegie himself said “Pioneering don’t Pay”
And he was right. Mark Zuckenberg did the samething with facebook. He stole the idea from connectu.com – the software coding, the business plan, the idea & the whole concept while he was working for them. He was a huge scumbag. He got expelled from Harvard for hacking into their computer database information. AND he had also been breaking into people’s email accounts when he started facebook. He admitted it in a online conservation with a friend. (One of the big reasons why I don’t keep a facebook profile)
But so what?
He taught connectu dumbies a big lesson: Pioneering don’t pay & those who speak too much end up revealing their plans to others who end up profiting from their hard work.
Hard work is for SUCKERS… I like to take good original products – steal the intellectual property from it – and then repackage it better with a slick name and shiny packaging with a HIGHER price & a high-pressure sales pitch.
Bill Gates did it. Steve Jobs did it.
But anyway…
I don’t personally hate you or have anything against you. I just wanted to make a confession that YES… They are successful thieves in the business world (Mark Zuckenberg, Bill Gates, Steves Jobs) and you better BET that they are thieves in the PUA industry…
I’m one of them and I’m proud of it. I like to suck the hard work out of other PUA products, sell it as my own and then take people’s money as my own.
This type of worth ethic serves you very well. It’s the best con ever because it fulfills the customers needs as long as the plagiarized product is still high quality and it makes a lot more money because your competition does your hard work for you while you focus on selling it in a slick package and name. And guess what? As long as you plagiarize correctly – your competition is a helpless dying homeless puppy..
Again Pioneering Don’t Pay
-Andrew Carnegie
LOSER!! ::   -12
[Reply]

Dave Reply:
February 1st, 2011 at 11:14 pm
@PUAScum, Um, I think you commented on the wrong post. JAR isn’t Eben Pagan.
  +5
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 12:44 am
@Dave, JDR = more disgraceful in his intellectual property theft as we can recall from the news stories & SD blog – 2-wit:
Article 29 of the Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples:
“Indigenous peoples are entitled to the recognition of the full ownership, control and protection of their cultural and intellectual property.
They have the right to special measures to control, develop and protect their sciences, technologies and cultural manifestations, including human and other genetic resources, seeds, medicines, knowledge of the properties of fauna and flora, oral traditions, literatures, designs and visual and performing arts.”
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/declra.htm
as referenced in…
Oglala Lakota Delegation Of The Black Hills Sioux Nation Treaty Council et al;
v
The United States Of America, Attorney General Eric Holder, Governor Jan Brewer, Attorney General Terry Goddard, James Arthur Ray, Angel Valley Retreat Center
http://www.sedona.biz/LAKOTA-LAWSUIT-SWEAT-LODGE.pdf
So for mr. Ray there is not only the intellectual property theft, but intellectual property theft, death and desecration.
http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/sioux-treaty/
  +4
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 7:48 pm
@PUAScum,
I hope some day you share a jail cell with James Arthur Ray.
  +2
[Reply]

J Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 12:46 am
@PUAScum, Pretty sure you don’t fully know the story of facebook. Didn’t happen the way you think or said it did.
The movie was not even close to accurate and that is where I suspect you got your source information from.
Have fun selling PUA, but I’ll be honest, just like these hucksters who are slinging crap on the IM crowd, your business won’t last as long as you want it to.
J
  -2
[Reply]

Juice Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 6:15 pm
@PUAScum, Good for you! You must have a massive cock. Oops, sorry my bad, by your own admission, you couldn’t get laid in a morgue
On a serious note. “successful”? not sure the word success actually means making
a shed load of cash via illicit means.
  +1
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 10:13 pm

Dave said:
Ah, the day approaches. Not fast enough. I’m sure JAR has convinced himself that he has nothing to fear, but I think he should be very afraid. I hope justice is served, for the sake of Bryan and all the other victim’s families.
Jean, I second the thanks for your and Nancy’s untiring efforts to enlighten JAR’s blindfolded minions on Twitter. You two are awesome.
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 9:28 am
@Dave,
You’re right on. It can’t come soon enough, some type of closure would definitely help. Thank you Salty, Nancy, Jean, Dave, Wonder Why, and friends for the continued support!
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:03 am
@Bryan Neuman,
I light a candle for you every day. I know that’s a silly New-Agey thing to do, but my heart is in the right place.
  +6
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
@Bryan Neuman, You and your other family members, and the relatives and friends of Kirby and James Shore are my primary motivation for postings/tweets related to Ray. Also,the hope that we can raise awareness about con men like him. We have to keep hoping he’ll be locked away for a long time where he can’t hurt anyone else.
  +6
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
@Jean D,
You have my thanks for sure.. I really look forward to seeing what you and Nancy tweet @JamesRay everyday!
  +5
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@wondering why, It’s actually fun. Especially thinking up clever responses to his BS. I want to point out Yakaru, Toxic Moxie, and Cosmic Connie have also been regularly tweeting comments that go right to the point and are pretty darn entertaining. Guess we’ll find out when the trial starts if Ray’s the one tweeting or has someone doing it for him. The time of the tweets,source,and style will tell.
  +4
[Reply]

Colleen's brother in law Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 10:42 am
@Jean D, Hi jean, I hate to sound self-serving….please remember to pray for art and marian conaway and family….thank you
  +4
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
@Colleen’s brother in law,
Colleen is always in our thoughts… I beleive it was beacause of her that the State of AZ decided to take this case very seriously..
  +1
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
@Colleen’s brother in law,
I meant to say that what happened to Colleen is the reason why the State is taking Ray’s case so seriously.They want him stopped! I sure wish the police in San Diego could have done something about it.
  +1
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 12:33 am
@wondering why, Sure the Sand Diego Police could’ve done something about it…..but her alleged suicide happened at Horton Plaza…..again, I say HORTON Plaza…..ring a bell? No one will ever convince me there’s no connection there, and we all know how “connections” work….that’s why this was covered up within ONE day….which is bulllshit. Again, HORTON Plaza….I wonder what prominent family which may have a little HO grandaughter in Jame’s harem following that could be?
Uncle Salty knows :)
  +2

Jean D Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
@Colleen’s brother in law, So sorry about that. I do pray for and think about Colleen and all of you. Normally, I make reference to her in posts and tweets and often say, “4 people died, he’s facing trial for 3 of those deaths”. If you peruse the comments on this blog, you’ll see several of us mention Colleen. We’re truly heartsick and outraged about what happened, rather what he/they did to her)in San Diego. Salty Droid and Yakaru have kept us well-informed and I think all of us are hoping a new investigation will be opened soon.
Check the Droid’s newest thread and see my post about Greg Hartle, who seems to be traveling with “$10 and a laptop”. My reason for posting that was for Colleen. We must never forget about her, nor what we know to be the truth about Ray; 4 deaths within 3 months. Not accidents.
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 8th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
@Colleen’s brother in law,
Colleen’s family is included in my daily candle ritual. I have not overlooked her.
  +1
[Reply]

Nancy Ogilvie Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
@Dave, Awwww, thanks Dave. That is sweet. :)
  +2
[Reply]
# 1 February 2011 at 11:27 pm

Martypants said:
Let me also give high praise to Jean and Nancy as this circus finally comes to town – some great stuff there. Get Hippo back in here, and you ladies can resume the infamous lemonade atrocities.
Still, I am kind of wondering why no Jar-Jar references have surfaced yet.
You have an idiot character, babbling nonsense and mugging it up. It is a character meant to be loved by all, but is (due to its insipid nature) hated universally (some might say, cosmically) – quick, which one did I mean?
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 9:35 am
@Martypants,
Thank you for thinking of me. Did somebody say lemonade?
  +3
[Reply]
# 2 February 2011 at 12:36 am

Ryan Healy said:
I can’t believe all the people on Twitter who continue to retweet JAR’s drivel. Ignorance never sleeps.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 5:01 pm
@Ryan Healy,
I hear ya Ryan..That is why I am soo glad that there are people that actually rebut all that regurgitation..
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 2nd, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@Ryan Healy, And Fake Robots almost never sleep either. :-)
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]
# 2 February 2011 at 4:24 pm

silencio said:
I wonder if JAR’s aussie mate David Schirmer will open his mouth in support of him this time? Schirmer appears to be very busy sorting out his own ishews and trying to find someone, well anyone at all really, to actually like him and not piss off every time he steals from them. Either way its just delish to see them suffer for the gross injustices they have perpetrated against their fellow men. Its one thing to get hungry for money, its another to take peoples lives and livelihoods away and steal, rape, pillage, thieve, cheat, plagiarize, fiddle the books, fake fitness and still look so fugly.
Bring on the JARstice
  +6
[Reply]
# 2 February 2011 at 8:31 pm

Duff said:
No amount of positive thinking is going to keep justice at bay. Sorry Ray, your time’s up! You had your chance to be a decent human being and make amends or take responsibility, but it’s too late for you now.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Dog Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 1:40 am
@Duff AYMEN
  +5
[Reply]
# 2 February 2011 at 9:32 pm

Denise said:
Why do all these fake gurus have small eyes?
  +2
[Reply]
# 3 February 2011 at 4:23 am

Yakaru said:
Ray’s defense team tries again to get the trial location changed because of “negative media coverage” and a “huge wave of public passion” against Ray.
As the prosecution already pointed out last time they tried this, the media coverage has mostly perfectly fair, and any negative public reaction has been provoked by Ray’s ongoing PR and marketing campaign. His actions have been grossly offensive to the bereaved and insulting to the intelligence of everyone else.
Big surprise that it’s now hard to find anyone in AZ who doesn’t think he’s a complete asshole.
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsYAV/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/02-01-2011%20MOTION.pdf
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 10:29 am
@Yakaru, I saw that change of venue motion and I laughed….you know, it’s very simple: crimes always get media attention, and the media is what makes the public aware of what’s happening. Also, the crime should be tried in the county where it happened.
State of IL v. John Wayne Gacy
State of IL v. Jeffrey Dahlmer
Google those names.
Those are two much bigger fish which took over the media when their crimes hit, and they were tried right where they were. PERIOD. That’s how it works.
Jame’s bullshit motion for a change of venue -and- his submission for a new jury questionaire are laughable….he thinks he’s a big fish and deserves special treatment. Looking at our Country as a whole, he’s a fucking piss-ant who needs to do the time for his crime—he is no different (the charges) than a DUI who runs over & kills 3 people. That’s what he is up against so he needs to just STFU and eat it….and everybody else who committed crimes on his level have.
Who the fuck does this guy think he is??? That “Hi-Profile” is going to go away very quickly when that cell door slams. Asshole.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

feeling4thevictims Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@Moxie, “…he thinks he’s a big fish and deserves special treatment. ”
This thinking has been practiced and enabled by JAR and his cronies because it suited them and their personal intention to make more money PERIOD. And it proved that they would do anything at all to get it.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 11:51 am
@feeling4thevictims, …..The absolute BIGGEST laugh I ever got in the whole JAR story is when I heard about his World Weath Society (WWS). I was familiar with the WWS, but I found it hysterical that James actually paid for bodyguards to be at events with him -and- when it came time to eat lunch, he sat at a table with his thugs beside him, so nobody could come close to him.
Now picture this…..a banquet-hall folding table, with one of those velcro table skirts put around the sides, and there’s James sitting eating his green-sprout sandwich amongst 2 big guys who say “no, you go away.”
He sure lays it on thick…..gives me a good laugh. Asshole.
PS – and he did make a lot of $$$ while doing this…those participants in the WWS pasid a minimum of $60,000 a year just to be told “no, you go away.” LOL
  +3
[Reply]

pissed Reply:
February 16th, 2011 at 12:25 am
@Moxie, Schirmer did this at the event he held with Proctor in Melbourne a few years ago also. That was just prior to their love affair in the courtroom. I think he thought the crowd might kidnap him he was so “special” but the only thing they kidnapped was his ego. No he wallows in self pity and nothingness with only memories of those glory days.
  +1
[Reply]
# 3 February 2011 at 6:30 am

Moxie said:
I can’t wait to hear what Megan Frederickson has to say on the stand…she lied thru her teeth in her Immunity Interview. When she starts her famous, “Oh, well, I don’t recall, you know, um, it was like, well, like, see, we kinda, you know…” I hope the Judge Bitch-Slaps her.
I believe she has Immunity from these Charges….but I don’t think she’s immune from Perjury. Um, you know… :)
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm
@Moxie,
I guess she’ll have to keep up that “don’t recall” BS for the whole trial now, which won’t be so easy under oath in the court room.
I also wonder if the investigators kind of expected her to stonewall when they did that immunity interview. They seemed to be setting her up for eventually springing it on her that they had that tape of her ordering the destruction of evidence “before the investigators arrive”.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 5:17 pm
@Yakaru, It will be interesting….I would not be surprised if she screws herself out of this “Immunity” deal when she testifies, with her lies. It’s one thing to tell a Detective a story…..it’s another when you’re intimidated in Court with Attorneys going at your throat. He-he-ha-ha-ha-he-he-ha!!!
New documents on the Yavapai site today….check them out !
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@Moxie ::
She doesn’t have immunity.
She had immunity for that one conversation … she choose not to take advantage of it.
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@SD, I did not know that—thank you soooooo much for waking me up on that point ! I love you, Salty….you’re my Hero :)
  +4
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:08 am
@SD,
What happens if she can’t remember anything while she’s on the stand?
  0
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@Moxie,
I’ll be watching the Megan Fredrickson testimony very, very, very closely to make sure she isn’t breaking her immunity agreement.
In the one hour interview with authorities she used the phrases:
“I don’t know” 63 times
“I don’t remember” 36 times
“I don’t recall” 13 times
Seems like she has the memory of a 90 year old, not exactly a “JRI Director of Operations” memory….
http://spiritualityisnoexcuse.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/the-immune-megan-fredrickson/
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 7:07 pm
@Bryan Neuman, Hi…..yes, her answers are very calculated….we will see if she can keep up that persona on the stand. It’s a totally different environment in a live courtroom.
Personally, there should have been charges brought up against her. As they are pulling dead bodies out of the Sweatlodge, she runs to the giftshop to call their PR people and Attorneys…..Business is more important than the human soul. She is as guilt as James is…and so is Michelle Goulet, IMO.
I cannot attend the Trial physically, but I will get real-time updates from friends who are there….so I will be watching as well….I am glad you and I got to “chat” on here. My heart goes out to you & your family, more than you’ll ever know. :)
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 3 February 2011 at 10:16 am

Moxie said:
Today James Ray filed yet *another* REVISED Change-of-Venue request to the Court…..he’s crying that all the Jurors know about the case and that it’s just so damn unfair…..wah, wah, wah.
HEY JAMES !!! That’s what you get, asshole, when you boil 3 people to death. The CRIMES are what’s getting the attention, he’s just the asshole attached to them. Deal with it.
http://bit.ly/hSptF5
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 pm
@Moxie, Lame delay tactics… people hate him everywhere because of the continued tweets, marketing, and national news. It has nothing to do with AZ
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 7:08 pm
@Bryan Neuman, I agree !
  +4
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:38 am
@Moxie,
Oh, for fuck’s sake.
  +2
[Reply]
# 3 February 2011 at 5:15 pm

Moxie said:
It’s a bad day in Moxieville….the Judge just ruled that NO PRIOR ACTS will be allowed in court….that means the LONG LIST of witnesses WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TELL the *Hell* they suffered at Prior Sweatlodge Events….like broken arms & hands….like feeling they were going to die…and like all the rest they endured under Jame’s Abuse.
The Judge feels since the acts were not CLOSE enough to the current charges of Manslaughter, they should not be allowed.
Motherfucker!!!!! http://bit.ly/fgND4O
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@Moxie, ……………………………..
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@Moxie ::
omg lame!
[Reply]

jojo Reply:
February 3rd, 2011 at 7:48 pm
@SD, but typical….feeling for the victims families.
  +6
[Reply]

Unicorn Army Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:32 am
@SD, so how’s that going to work? Prosecutor can’t ask a witness if anyone had ever gotten sick at a previous event? Maybe Ray will get on the stand and say “we never had any problems before” or some other such stupidity.
  +3
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 11:44 am
@Unicorn Army, As I recall, “we never had any problems before” was pretty much the initial response from Ray’s contingent back in October 2009 when the story first broke. One of the first statements I remember hearing, and that the news media initially ran with, was that Ray & company had been holding sweat lodges at that venue for several years and there had never been a problem. That was soon exposed for the lie it is, but now… who knows what might happen in court. I am very sorry to hear about this development.
  +3
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
The “White Papers” (which were indeed white – the first and last piece of truthful information given out by the defense) were full of stuff about previous sweat lodges going fine, and even harped on about the “safety precautions” which were added over the years.
It seems to me that the attorneys had only listened to a select few til that time. They must’ve been a bit surprised at what the prosecutors uncovered. In any case, they have changed their tune rather dramatically since the facts came out.
These tactics show plainly that they know Ray is guilty as all hell. In this case, there could hardly be a clearer admission of guilt. (Apart from every single one of Ray’s actions before during and after, of course.)
  +6
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
@Yakaru,
What I am wondering is–if the “White Papers” are included as evidence, wouldn’t that open the door for the prosecution to ask questions about what is contained in this document? And if so, that would open up the option to ask about previous sweat lodges.
I’m sure that the lawyers are way ahead of me on this one, but I am thinking that the defense may do something or other which will allow the prosecution to pursue this line of questioning.
  +2

Yakaru Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
@Hippo
Well the judge did explicitly say that the judgment didn’t of itself exclude that evidence should the prosecution bring lesser charges. I have no idea of course, but I guess they must still have the option of charging him with bodily harm on those of the twenty odd who were hospitalized who suffered similar injuries as in the previous lodges.
Whatever happens, the prosecutors have uncovered a vast amount of demonic freaking ruthless crazy evil fucked up stuff about Ray, and regardless of what the court says, it’s all in the public arena, and deserves to be spread far and wide.
(Nice to see ya again, Hippo!)
  +6

Hippo Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
@Yakaru,
You bring up a good point about the other twenty or so people who got hurt. Some of them I think have recovered, but some probably have permanent injuries and will not get better.
There is one woman, Sydney Spencer I think her name is, who I believe is badly injured and I know that she has brought a civil suit against Ray. Her lawyer hasn’t said much, but I wonder if there will be criminal charges on behalf of the people who have permanent health problems as a result of the sweat lodge?
  +5

Anonymous Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
@Cosmic Connie, it’s just weird. Cause of death of 2 victims is heat stroke. Symptoms of heat stroke seen at every prior event. Seems kind of important and relevant. But I picked my law school off a packet of matches, so I’m no expert.
  +6
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 11:59 am
@Cosmic Connie, Well, there IS one loophole I am hoping for here, that comes out in court….the prior sweatlodge events and participants cannot testify, but the Hamiltons who own Angel Valley ARE still on the list to testify. There’s been no Motions filed to strike their testimony.
Now, I am not schooled in this, but their testimony does include how reckless James was in past years, and how they themselves had to call 911…and how James built the sweatlodge to cram so many people in, and that they knew it was too dangerous when he ran it, etc…so that crosses over the current subject matter of “prior events”, so to say. But they are still up to testify—I hope they continue to stay on the roster. I do not know how that works (meaning, participants can’t tell but owners can).
Calling Uncle Salty….any opinion on this???
  +2
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
@Moxie,
I am no expert and I hope that somebody smarter than me will speak up. I think that if the prosecution asks about prior sweat lodges, the defense will object and the judge will strike the question. However, if the defense asks about prior sweat lodges, then the prosecution can ask.
I think this would only happen if the defense attorneys make a mistake, which they probably will not do.
  +1

Jack Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 11:52 pm
@Unicorn Army, I can’t find the witness info other than Rick Ross – but one thing I want to know about is if prosecution has the expert witness for properly constructing the “sweat lodge”? and then is it proof that they did it badly for many times and if so can it be relevant for this case now?
  0
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:01 am
@Jack, So what I mean is if they prove with the an expert witness about jAr not know about how to build “sweat lodges” – or people who built them didn’t know – then how can they go to argue that they “magically” knew how to build them right on that day?
or can they still just say they didn’t know a bad “sweat lodge” would/could cause the tragedy?
  0
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 1:31 am
@Jack,
I’m not sure I understand your question, but I do believe that the defense is going to claim faulty construction of the sweat lodge, even though it was built to Ray’s specifications.
I’m not really sure how that’s going to work. It’s not the construction of the lodge itself, it’s the idiot who wouldn’t let people leave when they got too sick.
Then of course the defense will claim that people were free to leave whenever they wanted, and that’s why the prosecution needs a mind-control expert.
  +4

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 10:39 am
@Jack, Hippo – yes that’s it. Not a main point I don’t think as you say…
But to show that they were built continually according to his specs in a faulty way…
…expert “sweat lodge” witness wsould testiify to proper construction.
  0

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 10:43 am
@Jack, only useful part of that i think is would show another of the ways he had the ongoing practice of putting people in danger is reason maybe I can see.
  0

Jean D Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 11:30 am
@Jack, Will the exclusion of past actions also exclude Amraya Hamilton’s testimony that Ray wanted the sweat trap built with a lower roof each year, hotter and with more people? I see this as a key element in the case as it pertains to construction and subsequent dangers.
  +1

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@Jean…I missed White Rabbit/Hippo convo below – they go better into this all i think.
  0

Hippo Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 10:13 am
This is to Jean:
I know this message is not going to appear where I want it to, but I am attempting to respond to your question about the construction of sweat lodges in previous years, and how Ray had them built with lower roofs.
Only guessing, but I don’t think that testimony will be allowed. Again, though, if Ms. Hamilton testifies about something and the defense asks her a question which opens the door to pursuing this avenue, that could be a different story.
  +1

Hippo Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 10:52 am
@Moxie,
Here’s another point. What if the judge allows the questions about prior sweat lodges, then Ray loses, and his lawyers use this to bring the case up on appeal and it gets reversed??
That would be worse. Better to have a more difficult case now than to be reversed on appeal later.
  0
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 9th, 2011 at 12:55 am
@Hippo, Lowering the roof and making the sweats hotter would be significant for revealing Ray’s increased recklessness,if Amaraya Hamilton’s testimony about that is allowed. He didn’t actually “build” the sweat trap because the branches were already in place and he just ordered the coverings to be put over the branches. Toxic chemicals in those coverings and contaminants in the soil were ruled out by YCSO investigators early on, therefore the structure itself has never been of prime importance.
  0
[Reply]
# 3 February 2011 at 5:32 pm

Yakaru said:
Dumb decision. Sure, technically the injuries were identical to the fatal ones, but non-technically, the reckless dirtbag who caused them was acting in an identical way.
Maybe the state can appeal it or add a few extra charges and get it heard that way.
Here’s a summary of the evidence that’s been excluded
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsYAV/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/08-02-2010%20RESPONSE%20TO%20MOTION%20IN%20LIMINE%20NO%201.pdf
  +4
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@Yakaru, IMHO, they can Motion-their-ass-off to try to exclude things, but they can’t exclude the black-n-white facts…or the tapes.
This is a Liberal Judge–you can see how easily & quickly he lowered the bail to an extremely ridiculous amount, imho. However, no matter what Motions the Defense wins, they cannot take away the solid hardcore evidence of James’ horrendous behavior during and after the Sweatlodge.
-he intentionally ignored the calls for help inside the sweatlodge -and- instructed others not to help (“leave them/her alone….)
-that poor man who fell into the hot rocks….James should’ve stopped the “ceremony” right then & there (imho) out of sheer decency to tend to that man….instead, he suggested that there were “helpers” who would help him out of the Sweatlodge. I feel absolutely *horrible* for what that poor man endured. Nor did James attend to him after the Sweatlodge.
-he walked out of that Sweatlodge, surrounded by suffering and injured people and he just strutted away to his cabin, to have his dinner…
-his *key* employees chose to run to the gift shop and call the PR people instead of calling 911….they also ignored the suffering they saw….as reps of JRI, they were as responsible as James is.
-Numerous LIES have been told by the Defendant (like holding IV bags) when actually, he was no where in sight…
-the deceased were dragged out of the tent….and where was James?
- Jane Doe: I dont’ think I have to elaborate on that story—one of the most horrible things I’ve heard in my career, of how Liz was treated.
- there was absolutely NO follow-up with the deceased and ill hospitalized victims, their families, nothing…..this tragedy was treated like just another day in the life of JRI.
I could go on & on…but all of this will come out in Court, because the Defense cannot fight these facts with Motions, and I truly believe even the most Liberal Judge will be appalled at what he will hear, when this all comes out, just like all of us were…..and that should have some impact on what Justice will prevail in this case.
If it doesn’t…..I give up !
  +4
[Reply]
# 3 February 2011 at 6:44 pm

Chris said:
The sad thing is people like Ray in the self help field will continue to thrive as they have so much adulation and blind trust (faith?) on the part of the people who seek to “soak up their wisdom”. People hang onto their every word and utterance. I wish it were not so, but lots of people suspend their critical faculties and better judgement when it comes to “revered” figures. They are almost infallible and their “followers” won’t hear a “slander” against them. Anyone trying to given their honest or sincere critical opinion of someone, especially a self help figure (he is trying to help people right?) is rebuffed and told their are being negative or they are envious. Not necessarily so, but people invent or believe in the reasons they want to believe.
The cult of personality. I wish people didn’t trust self-help gurus so much.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Amomymous Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Chris, I wish people didn’t trust fake robots so much.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Amomymous,
Great name. Hope you keep using it.
  +3
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
@Amomymous, SD has proven to me that he is honest and until he proves otherwise, I will continue to respect what he writes and what he is trying to do. It is about time more people in your country started getting mad and calling stuff like this out and unmasking frauds and conmen who pull the wool over peoples’ eyes and get them killed, or scam them. People prove if they can be trusted by their motives and their actions, which can be gleaned from observing them. When Americans learn to understand that corporations and “revered” individuals and charlatans like Ray are not untouchable or beyond reproach, then things will move forward and the average Joe will be better off.
  +3
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 12:37 am
@Chris,
I don’t think you can point fingers and say that this is a product of “your country”. I think it is a risk and a symptom of anyone who rises to a point of notoriety and starts reading their own press and loses perspective. It could be a speaker like James, it could be an actor in Hollywood, someone on Wall Street, or the leader of a country. As they say: Power corrupts. It could also be a cop, a priest, a boss, a politician, or a teacher. It could be a parent. Anyone who has “power” over another person also has the potential to abuse. It is universal.
With great power comes great responsibility.
If you saw him over time, it was a de-evolution, and it really went into a tailspin once he was on Oprah and Larry King Live. The “bigger” he got, the “smaller” he got. Or maybe it was just like putting a lobster into a cold pot of water and turning up the heat. You don’t realize that things are going South until it is too late. Which is probably what happened in the sweatlodge as once you are in real trouble you are probably not able to even articulate it.
As one person said: The message is good, beware the messenger.
James drew from many good sources. But over time you realized that he was prone to exaggeration, fabrication and drama. How much was for entertainment or “teaching” purposes and how much was purely bullshit? He often voiced his own issues and some people reiterated them as “truth”.
In the movie The Jerk with Steve Martin, when he was about to go off and make his way in the world, the one piece of advice his black father gave him was that the only thing he needed to know was the difference between shit and Shine-ola. Your typical socio/psychopath has a compulsive need to lie, even when it doesn’t serve them. However, because our sense of “community” is defined by trust, we tend to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Was I the only one counting on my fingers thinking his timeline didn’t add up? Every good lie has an element of truth so it takes time to see the layers of deception, but eventually it all crumbles. It just takes time.
You have to realize that most people got on board after The Secret came out, a movie that went viral world-wide. That was his Golden Egg. That gave him credibility. After that came the appearances on Oprah, Larry King, TV morning shows and radio interviews. He was on teleseminars. He was everywhere. Any advertiser knows that the more you put your message in front of someone, eventually what was unheard of becomes accepted. Any con man knows that the more respecable people you can buddy up with, the more you get accepted. The people I met along the way were not a bunch of idiots. They were people who were truly looking for something to help improve their lives. James had all of the snappy patter, the “respectable connections”…so what was NOT to like?
James also made it fun and scary. As a species, since we are no longer chasing down the wooly mammoth, we need to get our thrills elsewhere whether it is Freddy Kruger movies, bungee jumping, skydiving, or on the weekend strapping a couple boards to your feet and flinging yourself down a mountain. We need challenges. Sitting on the couch with a remote in our hands is not a challenge. There is no personal growth in that. What personal fears have you overcome? But if you do a firewalk or bend rebar with your throat, you look back at that and go…damn! That becomes your personal Mount Everest. You wonder, if I could do that, what else could I do? What other personal limitations could I break through?
As far as people suspending their critical faculties goes, from my personal observations much of that comes from their upbringing and life experiences. If they grew up in the equivalent of Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood, in other words, safe, happy and supported, they felt no reason not to trust. They don’t easily recognize red flags. I didn’t come from a warm and fuzzy background. By comparison I tend to be on high alert. I found I tended to see and hear things that others didn’t, not because they didn’t happen, but because of our respective reticular activating systems which allow in differing bits of information. Just as the indigenous people could not see Magellan’s ships in the harbor, they knew something was out there due to the disturbance in the water, they just had never seen ships so they couldn’t see his ships until they were actually taken out to board them. Then they became real. Most people had a safe enough upbringing that they won’t see a con boat in the harbor. People who pull a con depend on this. Most people are looking for the good in people, not feeling that they might have to protect themselves from them.
James might have continued on for a long time had he just taken responsibility when things happened. If they had just identified Colleen’s body at Horton Plaza there would be fewer skeletons in the closet. If the JRI staff had just made a list at SW of who was going to which hospital and identifying who they were to the carriers and then contacting families, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Unfortunately, we find that the motto of JRI, like the Knights That Go Kneep, is: Run away! Run away!
  +3
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 3:14 am
@White Rabbit, I respect where you are coming from. I thought your insights were very interesting and well explained. I agree with what you are saying.
I mean no offence. I am in actual fact an admirer of American values (esp freedom of speech and patriotism), but there are aspects of America that are very rotten. I say this constructively.
One aspect is people like Ray who exploits peoples’ desire to be better individuals and achieve abundance.
The other is the industry that scams and dupes people on a large scale by selling false opportunities (I have been on the wrong end myself).
I am in no way pointing fingers at the good people in your country, as I know a lot of people there are good and honest people. I know people who have blogs there that are calling out these cheats, false prophets, “enlightened souls”, and frauds (including the people that frequent this blog). So I am not pointing fingers there. I am however pointing fingers at the culture that exists there that gives rise to the screwing over and scamming of people there and everywhere with impunity and with such flagrant disregard. it is rife unfortunately and the internet attests to that.
People like Ray can’t even own up to their role in such tragedies. These things are avoidable but because Ray has such credibility and stature in his field, he can exploit that and misuse it. People trusted him and this is what he did to them. A madman playing with the lives of ordinary people who were only seeking betterment and self improvement.
  -1
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 9:38 am
@White Rabbit, Thanks for sharing your experiences. I want to point out that Ray was never a “decent guy whose ego got too big”. People who grew up with him say even as a kid he was an arrogant, mean bully who hated poor people and felt his family’s average lifestyle was beneath him.
I have often wondered about the backgrounds of Ray’s followers. When I watched the first video of him, my personal reticular activating system screamed “Slick,lying Southern preacher!”. Obviously, those who took him seriously didn’t have much experience with evangelists.That’s why they weren’t immediately turned off by the way his hands moved with every syllable and how he inserted manipulative questions into statements. Just his staged fake smile,alone, and his jumping around shouting on stage,triggered my memories of an entertainer-preacher with permed hair,a red polyester suit,and white patent leather shoes.
  +3
[Reply]

Stoic Reply:
February 11th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
@Jean D,
Had he been ‘a decent guy whose ego got too big’–when the shit hit the fan he would have reverted to type and expressed some ‘decent guy’ remorse and contrition.
What we saw of his behaviour in the aftermath–business as usual within a few days, after trying to tell his followers that the dead had, in fact, wanted to die and had achieved their wish—-that was the real character of James Arthur Ray on display, totally and exclusively concerned only with the welfare of James Arthur Ray.
  +4
# 3 February 2011 at 7:16 pm

Felicity said:
I wonder how many people have taken their lives or died as a result of being mentored by any of the people in the secret movie.
I hope the result of this case means that the authorities take serious notice of the type of information that these people are trying to teach and the qualifications (or extreme lack thereof) they have in order to teach it. How many of the people in the secret actually have legitimate qualifications?
Selling ‘hope’ may not be an honest thing to do but it sure seems a safely lucrative business to these people and without any controls at all its got to remain very enticing for anyone with dishonest intentions.
After what I’ve seen I will never again believe that JAR or any of his cronies who have caused extreme sadness and hardship to people ever did anything with good intentions. I believe the seed of greed was sown from the outset and grew to such an extent that it overwhelmed them and they would do absolutely anything to feed that greed.
And look at the results …………………..
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:58 am
@Felicity, That’s a good question. If that pile of crap book or movie had any value,why did Byrnes have to write The Power? Theoretically, an absolute concept is absolute and needs no further discourse.
  +4
[Reply]

Stoic Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
@Jean D,
She wrote it as she hoped for another payday. A good con is forever and can always stand being re-spun for another outing.
What was that Barnum said about one being born every minute?
  +3
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@Stoic, OK about first part, but what I can think we disagree about is “sucker born every minute”…is not true for if someone is using “mind control” because what I am thinking about is that they aren’t targeting “suckers” but maybe they like to think it is a good idea to target the “vulnerable and/or emotionally wounded” so they can go ahead and wound them some more or in the jAr case much, much worse.
  0
[Reply]

Stoic Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
@Jack,
i was thinking more of Barnum’s original quote, as we are endlessly reminded by Mr Fire vitale himself ‘there is a customer born every minute.’
I’m not much of a fan of DeathRay and his ilk targeting the credulous either.
  +3
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
@Stoic, got it. although in mr. Vitale’s case…
  +2

Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@Jean D, Rhaonda Byrne is one of the skankiest money-grubbing HO’s in that indutry….she’s right up there with Schirmer and she’s in Australia, with Schirmer. If you saw the original “Secret”, you could tell at the end that there was a sequel coming….and Byrne now has introduced it, imho, just in time before the “big evolution of 2012″. I don’t know if you are on FB, but there are some fucking nuts on there who are doing their work with their crystals, having prayer circles, praying to the pre-2012 powers, and they think “they” are going to be the people who will be “in the know” after the big shift of 2012 happens. So, imho, that’s why the HO wrote the book….it’s a good time to make money off the minds of those looking to transcend into 2012 and keep their hopes alive.
Does anybody know why we got rid of straight jackets in this country??? Just sayin’….
  +2
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
@Moxie, Those are Doomsday thinkers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon#Doomsday_theories.The “Chicken Littles” of the world. Apparently,they’ve always existed and are extremely annoying.
  +1
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 8th, 2011 at 5:10 am
@Jean D,
Actually, it’s even stupider – it’s Deepak Chopra, Greg Braindead and the Holy Holy Holy “Reverend” Michael Beckwith and a bunch of other turds posing as “evolutionary leaders” sitting atop a doomsday scam and raking in money. It’s not even an authentic loony doomsday group.
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/meet-the-evolutionary-leaders.html
  +3
[Reply]
# 3 February 2011 at 8:16 pm

Roger from Australia said:
I just read the news that the judge presiding over the case has limited the entire case to the sedona tragedy alone. He’s not allowing previous ray-related incidents to be a part of the trial. I’m disappointed!!! Will this grossly affect the prosecution’s case? Any comments? :(
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:45 am
@Roger from Australia,
The defense is going to claim that this was a tragic accident that no one could have foreseen.
The prosecution should still be able to prove that he acted recklessly without regard to people’s safety. Remember that he sent the participants on a lengthy fast with no water just prior to the sweat lodge. What about his irresponsibly cramming 60 people into the sweat lodge and making it hotter than anyone could stand? Consider also his guilty attempts to cover up what he had done after the sweat lodge.
I’m not a lawyer, but in my humble, uneducated opinion, I think this makes the prosecution’s case harder, but they can still do it.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
@Hippo,
Maybe the defense needs to paint it like it was a “tragic accident that no one could have foreseen,” however if you were one of his students JAR was like watching a train wreck in slow motion and it was bound to happen sooner or later, sooner being the more accurate prediction, especially after seeing so many break their hands in Kona. But James does not listen, he doesn’t want to hear and if you try to wake him up he slams his hand down hard on the snooze button.
EVERY year had an issue at SW. If you have any understanding of the human body and the symptoms of dehydration and hyperthermia, there was not a sweat that didn’t have people with real concerns.
Perhaps to get a more realistic feel for the participants his lawyers could have forgone the pricey accomdations in Sedona and just taken their sleeping bags out in the desert. They could have saved on the expense account by fasting for a couple days. But they would have gotten their suitpants dusty and we can’t have that, can we now?
  +4
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
@White Rabbit,
This has me responding to myself. Oh for chrissake. This came through today from the judge.
“Mr. Ray is entitled to explore Ross’s qualifications and reliability as an expert, including his professional practices and criminal history.”
Ex-SQEEEEZE me? This is the same guy who had his students sign their lives away on a stack of release forms but assured them that he had studied Breathwork with Stan Grof, was initiated into 3 shamanic orders plus Kuna, and would tell stories about his teacher…who turned out to be a tour guide. When did James ever provide his students with his true qualifications and reliability as an expert, including his professional practices AND criminal history???? When did his students EVER have the opportunity to make decisions based on TRUTH?
Then there is this little ditty:
“As noted above, despite the large number of participants, there is no substantial medical evidence that any of the persons attending pre-2009 Spiritual Warrior events suffered a life-threatening condition. Therefore, with regard to manslaughter charges, evidence of the similarity of the way in the sweat lodge and other ceremonies were conducted from year-to-year is not relevant and admissible on the issues of knowledge (i.e. conscious disregard of a known risk) which and absence of mistake or accident.”
No substantial evidence because the party line was to say people were just having their own experience and to let them be rather than calling for help. Otherwise that might have created substantial medical evidence. But I voiced my own concerns and know others who did the same at other SW’s. So there was conscious disregard for a known risk. It is like he was baking gingerbread men and just wasn’t getting the oven hot enough. Well, he finally did it.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 11:19 pm
@White Rabbit,
So the prosecution will have to prove that he knew or should have known that his conditions were life-threatening.
Since he claimed to have such expert knowledge of sweat lodges, he’s going to have a hard time saying that he did everything completely different from regular sweat lodges, but that it was still safe and completely normal.
Perhaps he can claim ignorance about the folly of fasting out in the desert like that with no water–I’m not sure.
Again, I’m no lawyer, and I don’t know exactly what the prosecution plans to present, but I still think they can prove their case.
  +5
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
@Hippo,
JAR has lived for years in “desert climates” having houses in southern California, Las Vegas and Kona. Everyone was issued a pound of salt and told to take a bit each day as they were in the desert and dehydration was a real possibility. If they have the audios they can hear that for themselves.
So having put people through a fast in the desert with no water and then a brief light meal and into a sweat lodge…. Having lived in desert climates where people die every year from doing stupid things or having unfortunate incidents happen, you cannot NOT be aware.
It seems he has cooked his own goose. You cannot be handing out salt and claiming ignorance at the same time.
I guess there is the old Flip Wilson defense: The Devil made me do it.
If that fails there is the Bart Simpson defense: It was that way when I got here.
  +6

Hippo Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
@White Rabbit,
I don’t know much about Rick Ross–obviously the defense will try to discredit him. Do you know if he has any skeletons in his closet?
Here’s another thought–if James Ray is so damn afraid of the jurors, why doesn’t he request a Court trial? Surely he trusts the judge to rule fairly?
  +5
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 11:59 pm
@Hippo,
Apparently Ross’s crimes were in trying to deprogram someone who I think was 18. And that was a very long time ago.
If he doesn’t qualify how about someone like Eldon Taylor who wrote Mind Programming?
  -3

Stoic Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
@Hippo,
Rick Ross does have a juvenile history which he declares on his site and has always been open about.
His skeletons are out of the closet for the world to see.
  +3

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@Hippo, http://www.factnet.org/cris_xpt.htm
“Rick Ross is the founder and Executive Director of the Rick A. Ross Institute. He is an internationally known expert regarding destructive cults, controversial groups and movements. Since 1982 he has been studying, researching and responding to the problems often posed by such groups or movements and has personally assisted thousands of families in an effort to help the victims of destructive cults, groups and movements. Ross has been qualified and accepted as an expert witness and testified in court cases across the United States. He has also frequently assisted local and national law enforcement and government agencies. Ross’ commentary has been quoted within publications such as /Time/, /Newsweek/, /The/ /Chicago Tribune/, /The Boston Globe/ and /The Washington Post/. His appearances on national television have included a wide range of venues from news programs such as the “Today” show, “CNN World News,” “Dateline,” “Nightline” and “48 Hours” to popular interview shows such as “Oprah,” “Donahue,” “Extra” and “Inside Edition.” Ross has lectured at such prestigious institutions as Dickinson College, the University of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon University, Baylor University, and the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.”
Gonna have a tough time discrediting him imho.
  +4

Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
@White Rabbit, LOL – I saw that come thru on the Motions and I LMAO…Mr. Ray has the “right” to do a lot of things…but that doesn’t mean the Judge is going to let him. Infact, the Trial date is getting pretty close….if I were that Judge, I’d be getting a bit pissed off at the Nonsense the Defense is trying to waste the Courts time with, done on purpose, I believe, at the end near their deadlines.
I hope Brad Brian gets new hair before the trial starts…and he could use a new suit, too. Disco Duck.
  +2
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@Roger from Australia,
It’s infuriating that legal technicalities overrule plain common sense. But it’s probably better to get that cleared up at this early stage than having the defense standing before the jury, shooting down a long list of witnesses and evidence one after the other, on technicalities.
It ensures that the prosecution will be focusing very sharply on Ray’s actions over a much shorter time frame, and won’t be open to the accusation that they’re trying to prejudice the jury by pointing out ad nauseum what an asshole Ray is.
As far as I know, there is still the motion to exclude evidence concerning Ray’s actions immediately before and after the lodge to be considered. I hope there’s not another nasty surprise waiting, but there are positive signs. In particular, the fact the court ordered Ray to hand over the audio of the entire event, with comments about audio recording being an accurate source.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 4th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
@Yakaru,
Thanks for your take on this..It makes me feel a bit better..Like you said at least the prosecution will know going in what they need to focus on.I agree I think that the court allowing the tapes to be used as evidence is really going to help a lot! I guess we will see what the court decides on that other motion.
  +4
[Reply]
# 4 February 2011 at 4:17 am

P C said:
What beggars belief is that JAR and his cronies have continued on their merry way shamelessly without any respect for the contribution their actions may have had on other peoples lives. If they were the caring individuals they want everyone to believe that they are (for if they weren’t they would be making a mockery of the LOA principles) and they considered that anything at all that they did may have had event he the smallest negative impact on people, they would stop immediately whatever the personal cost.
It just proves how much ignorance knows no bounds and how shameless greed ruins people forever. JAR’s name, and his mate Schirmer for that matter, will always be synonymous with the issues they are accused of and to the public the information they attempt to present and their personal lives will forever be tainted and questioned.
I dont know how these people can lie straight in bed consciously knowing that they are facing public scrutiny because the public honestly feel they have been wronged. It takes a very stubborn, ignorant and sadistically inhumane person not to have feelings when they have hurt someone and carry on regardless.
It now seems that they have made up their own minds that they will judge when they’ve hurt someone not the victim. If that is what the secret teaches these people to be like then it is little wonder they are being exposed as frauds and criminals.
I cheer on people who are willing to stand up for the rights of others through this sort of evil.
Salty you really are our sentinel – thankyou!
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 11:51 am
@P C, You’re right about some LOA believers. On Twitter several Ray Retweeters have told Nancy O she is hateful, negative and bringing bad things upon herself for wanting to “attack and avenge” Ray! Not once has she made vindictive statements; only tells ppl to look at the facts and hope justice is served.
I tweeted one LOA/Ray supporter in Dubai asking him “How should we address a situation when someone is hurting others?” He replied, “We must never get involved if the situation is between adults. We can’t know for sure if it’s really abuse or not”.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Stoic Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@Jean D,
The 4 dead people resulting from his actions sort of give the clue about whether or not it abuse. Perhaps Mr Dubai wants to try being #5 when he gets his head out of the sand? There’s no accounting for personal taste.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
@Jean D,
…And also, why the hell is Mr Dubai getting involved in your “abuse” of Death Ray? All this “don’t be negative” crap only ever applies to other people.
And if they think we’ve been negative and judgmental about Ray, they ain’t seen nothin’ yet. If that **** gets off these charges, I for one will hound him for the rest of his days. And I don’t think I’m alone in that.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@Yakaru, I asked FerrariRiccardo aka Mr.Dubai about abuse of others when I saw him tweeting Nancy to feel oneness and forgive Ray. He refused to understand her reasons for criticizing and analyzing Ray’s conduct.
@stoic, It seems self-help feel good mentality encourages a comatose state of non-feeling. By looking at the world remotely there is no connection to the suffering of others. References to “unconditional love” are merely a pretense for unwavering admiration of the leader, not compassion for humanity.
Btw, you two, thanks for keeping things current on Rick Ross forum.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Nancy Ogilvie Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 9:16 am
@Jean D, you specifically set up a hypothetical child abuse situation where the mother was also the victim of physical abuse. You mentioned at the time that he had the “right instincts” to report the abuse to protect the child, but that as an adult the mother needed to deal with it without your interference. What he missed in his comment was that victims who are adults are often unable to help themselves, or be advocates for themselves…especially when the abuse is not as obvious as a black eye or broken arm…but coercive manipulation where the victim actually enables the abuser. incidentally, this is the same point he missed with me regarding James.
  +5
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@Yakaru, I think I will find this Dubai MoFkr on Twitter and have some fun with him…..WTF does he care about any of this? See my other posting to Jean….and you’ll see my thoughts on this.
How fun–we have another dick with ears to screw with now :)
  +5
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
@Jean D, Maybe for thee LOA believers they can see this debacle for being a good way for the LOA to show them that they don’t know what LOA is or if it is at all…
…but how could the LOA say there is no LOA?
…because also they can’t claim about that not being a logical statement because they can tell me that the logic in LOA isn’t the physical logic so then I can tell them it, too.
…so why can’t the LOA say there is no LOA?
or they can also go ahead and maybe read a book called Fooled By Randomness by mr. Talem.
  0
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@Jack, obviously not “good way” – sorry about that…VERY bad wordchoice. but what i think is that these people need to STOP calling themselves “positive thinkers” and start maybe call themselves “variables of death”.
why? because…
Is LOA + synchronicity really more than advanced version of 50/50 stock pick scam?…
1. mail 100 people about stock
2. tell 50 people stock will go up
3. tell 50 peple stock will go down
* if stock goes up = mail #2 peoplle about your “success” and sell them stockpick newsletter
* if stock goes down = mail #3 people about your “success” and sell them stockpick newslettr
LOA + synchronicity can find many successes espec of course the more people who believe.follow it…
and the more peple who believe then the more dangerous it becomes because the anectdotal evidence can become more possible to find (and anecdotal evidence we can know will always have more social influence than statistics, right?)…
then use that anecdotal evidence so to get more peple to believe LOA + synchronicity and again to make even more possible to find “success stories” to get more “believers.followers” of LOA + Synchroniciy and then can go on and on and on…
so these jAr people i think must stop calling themselves the “positive thinkers” and maybe call themselves “variables of death” or at least life-wreckers. the more they are, the more possible success stories (however stastistically irrelevant) and the more chance to “recruit” into danger via anecdotal evidence.
  +2
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
@Jean D, “Four hundred years ago, Francis Bacon warned that our minds are wired to deceive us. “Beware the fallacies into which undisciplined thinkers most easily fall–they are the real distorting prisms of human nature.” Chief among them: “Assuming more order than exists in chaotic nature.”
from Chris Anderson’s (Wired.com’ ed-in-chief) intro to Taleb’s 2nd book “The Black Swan”
  +2
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 6th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
@Jean D, How interesting that came from a “Mr. Dubai”…I heard that James always spoke of Dubai as being his “big goal”…to be the Billionaire in the biggest finanfial center of the world…..hmmm…and here comes Mr. Dubai, interested in what James Ray of the USA has to say and jumps in to defend him.
I wonder if Mr. Dubai owns a Bank where US funds can be transferred to easily?
  +4
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 9th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
@Moxie, That is interesting. Especially when the Droid and people who blog here continue to reveal the numerous connections that abound throughout the self-help industry.
  0
[Reply]

Nancy Ogilvie Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 9:21 am
@P C, people like James are narcissistic sociopaths with no capacity for empathy. nor do they have any conscience…although they do know the difference between right and wrong, they just don’t care. They believe the rules don’t appy to them…they are “special”. What is frightening are the similarities between james and charles manson and also ted bundy. there is no coincidence that james got a “taste” for holding a life in his hands with the death of colleen conaway and the 3 subsequent deaths less than 6 weeks later in Sedona. he is dangerous, pure and simple, and i do not believe he will stop on his own accord.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
@Nancy Ogilvie,
I’m interested to hear that from someone who knew Ray a bit. I often wondered if they all were a bit drunk on the adrenaline of being so close to a death, and then getting away with it. ray must have thought he was untouchable, and Megan Fredrickson and Michele Goulet were no doubt proud as punch that they had served their master well in concealing it from the police.
  +6
[Reply]

Moxie Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 12:54 am
@Yakaru, Megan–Michelle–Greg Hartle–Josh Fredrickson & James Ray–Jon Ray and possibly a few others should all be tried for Manslaughter and other associated crimes which have occured as all of them acting under a corporation (in collusion leading to corporate crime). The Hammer really could’ve come down hard on them, with no immunity deals made, if a lot of Jame’s followers didn’t straddle-the-fence and only tell “a little” of the story they knew instead of the whole truth. I am furious about this. YOur comment about their “serving their Master” is soooooo true….and that could’ve been turned into criminal charges if backed up with enough testimony, instead of it being hidden “for their owns personal reasons”.
So if James gets a walk, I won’t blame the Prosecution for having a lame case against him….I’ll blame those who so selfishly kept their mouths shut and I won’t listen to them cry, either, about James being free. It’ll be their fault, imho. There’s a lot of disgusting bullshit that’s gone down that has totally pissed me OFF !!!!!
  +5
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 6:07 am
@Moxie,
I’m not in the least surprised to hear any of that.
The prosecution has done an incredible job of finding every bit of verifiable dirt on Ray that they can and presenting it o the court.
Regardless of what happens in court, people will be reading those docs for years to come. And they’ll see the responses of the defense too – i.e. nothing at all.
  +2
[Reply]
# 4 February 2011 at 8:00 pm

Irwin said:
Important JAR tweet from your topical tweeting sidebar.
James Arthur Ray: If you want to live a long and healthy life… In my opinion there’s no such thing as “too many greens.”
What a douche.
  +4
[Reply]
# 6 February 2011 at 6:12 pm

Nancy Ogilvie said:
Hi All,
First, I want to thank Salty for his continuing coverage on what is happening with the trial…and for always adding a dose of humor to it. This is a serious subject but it certainly helps to laugh a little if for no other reason than to break the tension.
I just read through most of these comments…WOW…emotions are still running high here, and it’s not surprising due to the trial getting closer at rapid speed, and still much work to be done on the side of the prosecution. The defense has skillfully used timing of their motions to their advantage, which means they are starting to earn their keep. God knows they haven’t done much but bury the court with ridiculous motion/objections to motions and requests for hearings up until now.
I was disappointed to read that the judge ruled against prior sweat lodge acts being admissible in court, as I do feel that it is important for the jury to hear that he has been escalating the danger and the risks over the years. Not to mention, it means I probably won’t be testifying now, and I was really hoping to.
At the risk of getting a “LOSER!” rating on this comment–I do have a couple things I would like to add, in light of everything I read on these comments…
My sole purpose in my Twitter activity and other ways of speaking out is to raise awareness. Not for us (we already know how dangerous he is)…but for people like Mr. Dubai, and Faithmakesaway, and others that could fall victim to his predatory methods. And not necessarily from future sweat lodges either…from the daily handing over their own discretion and free will to ANYONE LIKE JAMES who could hurt them. They are victims too. But, I realize that once they are informed, and they understand at some level what they are dealing with, that is all I can do. They are still in the dark, but it isn’t my job to “save” anyone…just do what i can to help them save themselves, if and when they are ready. now may not be the time for some of them.
Many of the people who have followed James (or others like them) are people who want to be successful and live complete, meaningful lives. There is a wide spectrum of backgrounds…Most of them are lifelong learners. Many of them have come from backgrounds of abuse, and have survived and thrived despite that. THe people that actually pay for these live programs are not destitute—they are successful, or they couldn’t pay for even the first event, which is usually lower priced. Most of the people I have responded to on Twitter are not in this category, They actually are far worse off because many of them are bordering on desperation (financially and emotionally), if you take the time to read some of their twitter walls. James has been exploiting this with his “blowout” sales, butting his dangerous materials in the hands of people who wouldn’t ordinarily have access to it due to his RIDICULOUS pricing during “normal” times…even the Sheriff’s dept became the proud owners of a complete set of his crap…and promptly entered it ALL into evidence. The ones that attack me/defend James are a small minority. Most people say thank you and then delete all support of him.
I only bring this up because (after reading the myriad of divergent comments) IMHO its important to look at why you are doing this—what is your purpose in “going after” james? i am not a “hater”—I am a former student (but I am not a minion, and I never was). I was at every event he did, including the sweat odge in 2007. Liz Neuman was my friend. I don’t think posting on Twitter every day is fun at all. Frankly, I think it sucks. I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster since it has started. My whole life has been affected by this…and regardless of whether or not he is convicted, serves time. or walks free eating his sushi dinners and greens….he must be stopped from conducting this type of business ever again. And the narcissistic sociopaths that are just like him also need to be put out of business. We can’t prevent them from doing business, but we can certainly raise enough awareness so that their client bases disappear. Connie Joy’s book has certainly outlined this in a beautiful and moving way (and if you haven’t read it, I strongly suggest you do)
Thanks for letting me vent here a bit. There is still much work to be done…time to get a second wind.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 8:56 am
@Nancy Ogilvie,
This doesn’t look like a “Loser!” post to me.
Well said.
  +5
[Reply]

Nancy Ogilvie Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 9:04 am
@Hippo, thank you…I do know how this crowd likes their torches and pitchforks…so I thought a disclaimer was in order… :)
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 9:09 am
@Nancy Ogilvie,
We also like lemonade.
  +5
[Reply]

Nancy Ogilvie Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 9:23 am
@Hippo, LOL…well it is refreshing.
  +3
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 7th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
@Nancy Ogilvie,
Nancy we are on your side!! Thanks again for doing a thankless task..I know you have helped people by doing it..You have made me feel better to know that there is a voice of sanity out there in all of this..
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

anonymous Reply:
February 10th, 2011 at 4:44 am
@Nancy Ogilvie, I have ABSOLUTE admiration for you for being so passionate and persistent. I had my own experience with someone in the secret and I know exactly how it feels to know as much as you do and not have a voice to warn people against what could be an incredibly dangerous destructive and manipulative experience. As you say, it sucks, big time. I am with you and every other person who simply wants these people stopped if only to save a few souls the dreadful heartache that goes on year after year because of the evil that is perpetrated by one human being who thinks they are so much better than any other soul on this earth and who thinks they have the right to judge how another person feels because of what they do in the name of GREED. If ever there is an industy that is so desparately in need of serious regulations its the one that James Ray and his cronies belong to. I have enough faith to believe that the day of reckoning is coming very soon for all of these people and not a second soon enough. They are currently experiencing the entree, just wait until main course is delivered. Then we all know the last course delivered are the sweets!
  +3
[Reply]
# 7 February 2011 at 8:14 am

Chipolata said:
James Ray and his cronies are narcissistic evildoers and judgement day has arrived.
  +2
[Reply]
# 10 February 2011 at 4:51 am

Jean D said:
Update on jury selection for the trial due to start March 1. Great pic of Ray.
http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubsectionID=1&ArticleID=40401
  +1
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 10:23 am
@Jean D,
That is an awesome picture. I didn’t quite understand–is the motion to change venue denied?
  +1
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
@Hippo, The change of venue decision has to wait. I’m still appalled how Ray’s defense has attempted to compare him to the OKC bombers. Silverstein asserts 64% of Yavapai County residents interviewed could be fair, whereas 77% of those interviewed in Maricopa County could be fair. That’s only a difference of 13%. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sure doesn’t seem like enough of a difference to move the trial. And it in no way compares to the situation after the bombing. Almost 100% of people interviewed in Oklahoma County said they couldn’t be fair to McVeigh and Nichols!
And as for the media,we had only bombing coverage on local stations for weeks after the incident. I remember one local sportscaster saying,”This is our first day back on the air. I want to point out that although sports are good, we have all learned what matters most in life is people. Make sure, every day, you let those close to you know how much you love and appreciate them.”
  +2
[Reply]
# 12 February 2011 at 4:08 am
The connection between James Arthur Ray and Ed Dale that Ed Dale would rather you didn’t know about | eddalescam said:
[...] Bad James. Very bad James. [...]
  0
# 7 March 2011 at 10:46 am

Wow said:
Just want to comment and let you know that all of your information about the STEVEN not Stephen, Steven DeMocker trial is false. Your photo is also very offensive, he has two daughters.
  -2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
April 12th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@Wow ::
She had two daughters too.
[Reply]
# 9 April 2011 at 3:39 pm

shkhjlrt said:
llama dotes artificially mellowness shelled repossession digestively aplombs unsalted implode politician remade fecundated cultivate immesh hipsters finagler sequestrated misdeems indisposed overarched disarranging forfeiture catheters penknife cuppas calked remanufactures compatibilities latissimi phoenixes innocency code productions trusts electroscopes smiler ellipsis amok dabbles nationalized skimming reinvites proctoscopies squatting corruptly unrecompensed fritterer strickles snowslide pliancies lividness forces hissed decadence ceramics aglimmer murkly vouchees extents rebuilding reclaiming tarantulas honourer samsara everymen mort contortive townsite time exhibitionist expellable inculcation compte superficialities recessionary terns titan scalpel slat highs citation ionising eligibility trims predestined girthed commonly provisos aiding retaught foods theorize venturesomeness wheelless obsession feting encampments outlook wrecker tolerate dissolving currentness gammer vulgarizer disparage thenceforth osaka ilks promodern halidoms fiver chiggers agleam illustrators jimsonweed maim ratting ghats frittering foreordained emeries estimates cornerback crony tuba chairlady roadhouses regainers indexes epoch unruly implorers entrepreneurship repousses elongations boost turbine jerk magnetize resonate manchurian roofer surfeiting resistantly effected nuclei obeisant rancho furcular detergent unfenced affiliations gatefolds trines orwell directly barber squawk feathering sportily manoeuvered dwindled colorist reinforce undrinkable eyesights quests throwaways tetradic jaywalked augmentation suitings side foreboded operational rioter ratters wedgies resistors impacting reargue pachyderm yodelling redrawing sabotaged weeders lithely sterilizing nirvana encrypts inaudibly menstruations spastic procreator bulldoze intransigently unwariest pyrogen resell
  -3
[Reply]
# 1 October 2011 at 10:23 am

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