Home » Hope, James Arthur Ray, Megan Fredrickson, Munger Tolles & Olson, The Secret

James Ray Trial Verdict

Author == 23 June 2011 420 Comments

“The Law” of Attraction has failed James Arthur Ray :: he’s been convicted on three counts of negligent homicide.

It’s really not much of a surprise that The Law of Attraction has failed him :: because he’s a massive dickhead. Even fake spiritual laws hate massive dickheads.

But The Law of Attraction has also failed The Salty Droid :: whose laser focused thoughts :: feelings :: and actions :: had the jury returning with a bucket full of tar and telling Death Ray to strip.

But life’s not about what you intend :: or want :: or need :: it’s about what happens to you. Most of what happens to you will be out of your control. Like earthquakes :: and floods :: and mother-in-laws :: and asshole husbands :: and juries who can’t convict on recklessness because they weren’t allowed to hear the evidence.

Not guilty was basically out of the question … because of … well … everything. So the jury was deciding between reckless and negligent homicide.

Recklessness means he knew he was risking lives.

Negligence means that he should have known he was risking lives.

The most relevant evidence regarding this “state of mind” distinction :: as Ms. Polk and Mr. Hughes argued repeatedly :: was that Mr. Ray was intentionally ratcheting up the heat in order to push people out of their minds. Some years weren’t bad enough for him :: and he complained :: and rectified in the following years.

People :: even Megan :: pushed back. “James these people are your responsibility …” :: which testimony has Megan Fredrickson saying in the lodge :: was not the beginning of that dialogue. The Hamilton’s pushed back too :: not so back as to stop being sell-outs :: but they pushed back.

People saw other people almost dying in past lodges. James Arthur Ray saw people almost dying in past lodges. He asked Daniel P. about his near death experience with the fascination of a psychopath doing his due diligence.

Yet Judge Darrow steadfastly refused to allow this sort of evidence for fear of the prejudicial effect that such hideous past actions would have on the jurors.  The fact that ALL his past actions were :: in effect :: “bad actions” :: meant that any evidence other than that of Oct 8th was highly contested. The purity of his evil was actually a tactical legal advantage. The same is true for one of the defense’s primary arguments :: that a core temperature reading above 104 is required for a heat stroke diagnosis. Kirby and James were already dead because of Death Ray’s stalling :: and because of prior year shout downs for people with the audacity to call 911.

Liz was just laying out there :: in the mud and the desert night … half a corpse. Her “friend” and “mentor” of 10 years was just a few months away from arguing that he was innocent of killing her because her half dead body had already cooled while he was having a sandwich.

It’s pretty messed up.

It’s why justice has to be a group effort :: and a war with many fronts and battles. The robes :: hardwood :: and old-fashioned rules are never enough … once you’ve looked close enough.

In spite of the obstacles :: I thought Ms. Polk proved recklessness beyond a reasonable doubt. The jury thought otherwise. They didn’t know what Ray knew :: but they did know what he did :: and they convicted him for it.

Fair enoughs!  We’ll take it!

I know I speak for many when I say I’m a little bit disappointed that the more aggressive charges didn’t stick :: and a lot bit relieved that something stuck. Turns out :: sometimes there ARE consequences for frauding people to death.

Idiot Death Ray looked relieved as well. For a brief moment after the not-guilty on recklessness verdict was read :: he appeared to think he was Audi 5000. His normally abnormally emotionless face suddenly blurted out :: narcissist wins the lottery type situation :: here’s the money shot …

The video above is the verdict :: and then the series of micro expressions that made up Death Ray’s moment of confusion.

Next week the State will try and show that this was an “aggravated” offense :: the rules won’t be the same … but there will still be rules. Accomplices :: greed :: heinousness :: victim suffering … and other super peppy stuff like that will be discussed.

And then James Arthur Ray will go to jail.

It’s not over :: but I guess we’re done waiting to exhale …

{cue Whitney Houston}

>> bleep bloop

420 Comments »

  • Colleen's brother-in-law said:

    THANK GOD!!!!! we are willing to take it….sometimes life doesn’t give us what we want, but the lord gives us what we need. We have needed this for almost 2 yrs…we miss you colleen

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +44

    [Reply]

    what?? Reply:

    @Colleen’s brother-in-law,

    I’m glad you feel some measure of comfort from the guilty verdicts. Hopefully next week, he’ll get the maximum possible sentence for his crimes. Our thoughts are with your family, as always.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +21

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    Colleen's sister Reply:

    @what??, Thank you for that! Myself & my family could not have made it through this without the support from all of you! Yesterday was a very tough day for me…I can not imagine how it was for the families of James, Kirby & Liz…to see your loved one’s face (who left on what was to be a “fun” get-a-way and was so violently ripped away from you) plastered in the courtroom day after day, week after week…to hear the defense try over and over to twist the facts and belittle the deaths, then it boiled down to seconds before the verdict was read… talk about pressure! Thank God this leg of the journey is complete…my thoughts will be with all of them on Tuesday. Just watching James Ray’s facial expressions that Salty so eloquently put together tells the TRUE man that James Arthur Ray is…I picture James, Kirby, Liz and Colleen smiling as the realization of guilt was thrust upon him! Whew…not what we wanted, but we still got a lot! HE IS GUILTY!!!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +30

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    Hippo Reply:

    @Colleen’s sister,

    I was hoping for more, but I’m glad you’re pleased.

    An acquittal would have been too awful to think about.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

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    Advice Reply:

    @Colleen’s sister,

    In light of the verdict in Arizona, your family should contact the District Attorney in San Diego and convince the D.A.’s office to open an investigation into Colleen’s death and Ray’s likely involvement.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

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    Colleen's sister Reply:

    @Advice, What legal action we take in regards to the atrocities James Arthur Ray inflicted upon my sister rests in the capable hands of my parents attorney, Robert Magnanini and his team. Where they lead us…we shall follow!!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +19

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    Hippo Reply:

    @Colleen’s sister,

    I can’t see where they could ever prove cause and effect with Colleen’s case. The fact that Ray would not even issue a refund for Colleen’s pre-paid future seminars shows how truly amoral and classless he is.

    So I hope your parents’ lawyer can at the very least get some money out of him. Not because money takes the place of Colleen, but because Ray loves it so much and it pains him to part with any of it.

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    Hippo Reply:

    @Colleen’s brother-in-law,

    I’m glad you’re satisfied with the verdicts. I suppose it’s unlikely that San Diego will ever be able to put a case together for Colleen that could stick.

    I’m hoping that the Judge can add some type of injunction against Ray doing self-help seminars in the future. I don’t know if that’s within the Court’s power, but it would be some small measure of comfort.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

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    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Colleen’s brother-in-law, All my love and prayers go out to you and all the families and loved ones of JAR’s victims today as he finally faces justice for his evil acts. God bless you all!
    Joni

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

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    Anna Reply:

    Does anyone know if JR still has pending civil cases out there??

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    Amy Hall Reply:

    @Anna, He has my back pay to pay! $5,500 dollars worth!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

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    Anna Reply:

    @Amy Hall, So sorry Amy, not surprised at all.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

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    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Amy Hall, Oh, no! With all of his other sins and crimes, he didn’t even pay his employees?? I’m sorry, Amy. Just when I think there’s no more scumminess about this guy that we haven’t heard yet!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

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    LaVaughn Reply:

    @2LateSmart, @Amy Hall, Pay his employees?! That’s crazy talk!! Then he’d have to do all kinds of whacky thing like return people’s prepayments for events that he canceled and stuff. A little compassion here. He has monstrous legal bills to pay for his sucko defense. Ray has priorities. He always has. Like when he staffed his events with volunteers even as bragged about his millions in income and multiple properties. Priorities!!!

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  • what?? said:

    I always love your videos, SD, but I think this is my very favorite one! I hope all of Death Ray’s surviving victims and their loved ones slept a little bit better last night. It wasn’t exactly the verdict we all wanted…but at least we know he will know pay some price for his crimes.

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  • James Ray Guilty of Negligent Homicide x3 « Spirituality is No Excuse said:

    [...] Droid has posted his reaction to the verdict. One brief passage gives glimpse of the horror of the events, and the contemptible and brazen [...]

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  • katiecoolady said:

    God would I love to see Lightman from Lie to Me analyze all of those micro expressions. It’s like he goes from “See? There it is…I’m teflon! Told ya” to pure anger. While Li is stroking his shoulder. Fascinating tidbit.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

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    katiecoolady Reply:

    @katiecoolady,

    haha I was listening there at the end and typing that post then heard that creepy music so went back and saw you did just that. Bravo. Of course you would. Salty Droid, you’ve made following this trial something–god I can’t come up with the right adjective. You know what I mean.

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    Omikse Reply:

    @katiecoolady,…I was thinking the same thing myself…maybe on “the wall” in the opening of each show, they can add a picture of smarmy Jimmy. Or, the opening of Criminal Minds, they could have Ray slide on by, along side the mug-shot of Susan Smith, a killer of other innocents.

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    Dancing Bubba Reply:

    @katiecoolady, When Li puts his hand on Ray’s shoulder it looks like JAR jerks away from him slightly before correcring himself, makes one go Hmmmm.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

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  • Mario said:

    Confucius once said…
    “The father who does not teach his son his duties is equally guilty with the son who neglects them.”

    …and the attorneys…and the resorts owners…and The Fredericksons…
    one could increase the list ad infinitum, though it will only be the now convicted mass murderer, James Arthur Ray who will do the time.

    How much we all love an SD video, the cell door slamming on the convicted, with the jailer saying to Mr. Ray; “The door is now closed.”

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +22

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    Colleen's sister Reply:

    @Mario, and YOU can NOT LEAVE!!!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +17

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    katiecoolady Reply:

    @Colleen’s sister,

    Not to mention “you will be relieving yourself in this cell”.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

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    tsarten Reply:

    @Mario,

    Brilliant. And the master jailer can tell Mr Ray he can pee in his cell. The holy and sanctified cell where JR can have his most profound altered state.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

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    Hippo Reply:

    @tsarten,

    And he’ll hopefully have plenty of time to work on that orange chakra.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

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    Omikse Reply:

    @Hippo,…with lots of bugs, and no organophosphates…anywhere!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

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  • Hippo said:

    I have a question for Mr. Salty or anyone else who might know:

    Along with the sentence, can the Judge prohibit JAR from engaging in similar activities after he’s released?

    It would be a relief to know that he was prohited from setting up any more fake self-help seminars in the future.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +18

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    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Hippo, Let’s all make a pledge right here and now. If that asshole EVER makes it out of prison, and dares to set up a seminar business again, it is the duty of each of us here to sign up for the seminar immediately. Anyone who can’t afford the cost, post here, and we’ll find a way to get your costs paid. I’m serious – if that ever happens, it is incumbent upon all of us to fill the chairs at his very first seminar, and give JAR some of our Salty Droid love in person, just the way we’ve been giving it to him here on this site. I can think of nothing that would be more fitting as a way to welcome JAR back to the world of murdering charlatans than to face a room full of….well…US.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +17

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    Anna Reply:

    @2LateSmart, Count me in

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

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    Omikse Reply:

    @2LateSmart,…count me in too!…although I hope it will be a very long time, if at all, before Ray is ‘free’ to practice his personal brand of manipulation. But, if that day should come, you are right, we should be there to welcome him back…and show him our ‘Salty’ brand of tough love!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Babzilicious Reply:

    @2LateSmart,

    Count me in. I’ll be there!!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Mavent Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

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    Jean D Reply:

    @Hippo, Hopefully, he will be prohibited from marketing himself. But I doubt he’ll even have the strength to do anything if and when he gets out. Personally,I don’t think he’ll survive his sentence. He’s almost 54 and not healthy. Remember, how he looked after time in jail? Prison will be impossible for him. Imagine him wearing prison clothes; in Arizona State prisons they issue boots that have the heel cut out on one side so they can track escapees’ footprints (A colleague who had taught several years at Safford,AZ told me this) showering with the other guys,sleeping in a cell, eating prison food, hanging out in the “yard”, and following a schedule the State has made for him.

    Thank you,Sheila Polk. James Ray’s life is forever in the hands of the State of Arizona!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

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    John B. Reply:

    @Jean D, As much as I think it would be fitting to see him become a guest of Sheriff Joe at the Tent City Hilton, where he could experience the 115 degree heat of the Phoenix summers while living in a tent and wearing pink underwear (anyone else see the irony in this?) he was convicted in Yavapai County. Therefore, he probably will probably be sentenced to spend his time in the Yavapai County jail – not far form the death lodge site. Unfortunately, for Death Ray, at the last census 18.7 percent of the population in the Yavapai County Prison System Native American. Inasmuch as the Nations, Tribes and Bands form across the country have been so very vocal in expressing their feelings about this case and Ray’s disrespect for their ways and traditions, I am sure he will make some very nice new friends who will teach him everything he always wanted to know about sweat lodges and Native Culture and Tradition. And, since Jimmy Death Ray likes to have people shave their heads before introducing them to death lodges, perhaps he will make a nice Chiricahua friend who can teach him all about their age old practice of scalping. Whatever does happen, I am sure it will be well deserved, being the Native Peoples believe in Karma.

    As a side note, has anyone noticed Lee Kuan and his very many multiple personalities has been strangely silent on the topic of the conviction? Perhaps he and the aliens are bury working on JAR’s appeal?

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    Omikse Reply:

    @John B.,…LK seems to have ‘gone to ground’ since there was nothing to “Woo-Hoo” about the other day.

    And, yes, you are right…perhaps the Native population can ‘cell-school’ Jimmy in the difference between tradition with a small ‘t’ and Tradition with a capitol ‘T’…I am sure they would be more than happy to do so.

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  • Anita said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -30

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    Omikse Reply:

    @Anita,…In Arizona, “Negligent homicide occurs when someone kills another person through criminal negligence. Criminal negligence refers to a person’s inability to see the potential danger their action will bring to other people. This includes things like vehicular homicide and other alcohol or drug impaired accidents. Negligent homicide is a class 4 felony.”

    Not exactly innocent, is he. He stands as a Convicted Felon, that’s a fact you can take to the bank.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +25

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    katiecoolady Reply:

    @Omikse,

    In addition to being a convicted FELON for life which he will have to disclose by law, he will here and forevermore have the term HOMICIDE attached to his name.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

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    Omikse Reply:

    @katiecoolady,…the law of attraction will now equal free publicity/advertising for Convicted Felon ( typing/saying that is NEVER gonna’ get old!!), James Arthur Ray…no longer just a defendant…Now a Convicted, 3 Counts, Negligent Homicide Felon…Wooo-Hooo!!..( BTW…NO “woo-hoo” tweets from Ray or his fans, & his fan facebook pages, gone…Awwwww shucks)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

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    Bethann Reply:

    @Anita,

    It’s my understanding the aggravating factors may give weight to the sentencing. The state and the defense will present before the jury next week. It’s also my understanding the guilty verdict will give weight to the 9 pending civil suits.

    Ray was found guilty on 3 separate charges, difficult for me to believe he will walk away with probation only.

    I’m hoping the testimony of the victim’s family may give the additional weight to aggravating factors.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +19

    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @Anita,

    I can only speak for myself. I’m not “all excited,” but I am relieved that he was not acquitted. If that had happened, God only knows what his bloated, King Kong ego would have done next.

    I’m very hopeful that the testimony next week will encourage the jury and the judge to give him whatever the maximum penalties are.

    So I would say “cautiously optimistic,” rather than “all excited.”

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Anita,…Ray may also have a problem with his passport. Leaving the country and being a convicted felon, brings new problems. The country you might like to visit may not allow you entry, Canada does not like U.S. convicted felons coming across their boarders. Just another fact that I am sure his atorney will discuss with him, after he does some prison time.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

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    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Anita,

    OMG! Truc? Truc Do? Is that you? I recognize your syntax – and your keen grasp of reality and the law! In which a FELON who is CONVICTED of HOMICIDE has not actually been convicted at all, but is actually not guilty!

    So, I guess “Anita” is your bizarro world name when you’re not nauseating onlookers in courtrooms? At any rate, keep up the great work. Nice conviction in this case! Oh, that’s right, you were on the other side….

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +18

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    Yakaru Reply:

    @Anita,

    According to quantum physics he was actually found guilty of manslaughter.

    Incidentally, no one here is “excited”. Funny that you seem incapable of correctly identifying even the most deeply felt and clearly expressed human emotions. That’s kind of a theme running through this whole thing.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +17

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    jamo Reply:

    @Anita, The guilty verdict also shows that the jury didn’t didn’t buy the retarded organophosphate “theory” that the defense tried to shove down theirs and the families throats. That was a travesty.

    Great defense — find some unidentified guy who mentions something during the first hours after the homicides and run with that. It was a huge insult to all of our intelligence.

    Looking forward to aggravated hearings — I predict he gets the MAX. He is only a sympathetic character to the handful of brainwashed disciples such as yourself. To majority he is an abomination. That will readily be apparent during the hearings.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

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  • Hal (the original Hal) said:

    Great news indeed.

    I thought it was a good sign for a Death Ray conviction when I read earlier today that OJ will finally confessed his murders (sorry, make that killing in self-defense, uh-huh). See http://bit.ly/kjUDtE for that story.

    Any of the legal beagles here know what kind of time is Death Ray looking at for this conviction?

    Surely it can’t be a slap on the wrist with probation like Anita said. :-(

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

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  • Syndicater H8r said:

    ======Vote For The Sentence=======

    Negligent homicide carries 1-20 years vote below for your verdict.

    Of course we’re all praying for 20, but I see it being some where in the rage of 3-9 years, so my vote is for 6 (2 years per vicitim).

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

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    Syndicater H8r Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -15

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    Syndicater H8r Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -14

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    Syndicater H8r Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -13

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    Syndicater H8r Reply:

    10 Year Sentence

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

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    Syndicater H8r Reply:

    Jack Pot 20 Year Sentence

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    Syndicater H8r Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    John B. Reply:

    @Syndicater H8r, ( years per conviction to run consecutively, not concurrently, for a total of 18 years.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

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    John B. Reply:

    @John B., Ooops that was 8 years each :-)

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

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  • Syndicater H8r said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -15

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  • 2Tired2 said:

    Great news on this verdict. (I was scared the jury would hang)

    My thoughts & heart go out to the families…

    And my applause goes out to Sheila, Bill, Diskin & the whole Yavapai Co. attys office ~ y’all did a marvelous job ~ which, for me, goes without saying.

    That new-age creep, who has manipulated & brainwashed people for all of these years, should be put on a “vision quest” for the rest of his life.

    (Not a fan of anything “new-age” = disinformation ~ IMO)

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    Oh, happy day...Ray WILL pay! Reply:

    @2Tired2,

    I totally agree with your sentiments, but for two issues:

    First, there is a serious danger in categorizing James as representative of “New Age” belief systems, and of these systems alone. First, it drastically undercuts the severity of the true problem here, and the sheer pervasiveness of it, in society. Mr. Ray is a con artist, a huckster, a greed-monger, a sociopath, etc., and, as such, he does not represent those who truly are on a path for greater wisdom. Simply put, he is not a spiritualist, really, nor does he accurately represent the followers and teachings of so-called “New Age” philosophies. Not everyone who uses the Internet is a scammer…not every Priest is a pedophile…and, obviously, not everyone who represents themself as a spiritual searcher of sorts is a charlatan or Wannabe Guru. His greed and narcissism were his motivations, not his beliefs…So is he a creep? Absolutely. A “new age creep”? Not really. He’s a fake and a fraud, and likely only jumped into the self-help industry because it’s evolved into a hot, lucrative market for so many other fraudsters (such as Robbins and Proctor).

    Secondly, James’ teachings – specifically, the whole “Ask and You Shall Receive” bit – are actually mostly derived from Christianity, and passages in the BIBLE, more so than anything in the original “New Age” core teachings. As a matter of fact, the Christian Church/cult that I was raised in was teaching nearly the exact same ideas as JAR’s over 30 years ago, and many churches in my area are STILL teaching the same flawed, ignorant concepts related to the fictitious Law of Attraction (but basing theirs off the Bible)! One must also bear in mind that millions of humans, throughout history, have died and/or suffered horrifically due solely to man-made religions and the willful ignorance of some of their followers. In effect, ANY belief system that involves brainwashing a person into ignoring their common sense and intellectual abilities and instead blindly following a Guru, Preacher, Priest or book is disinformation, and is equally dangerous to society.

    Hopefully, though, this tragedy will help others to really see the importance of questioning those they choose to follow and look up to, and possibly spare the loss of further lives.

    …But it should never, ever have happened, in the first place, and my thoughts go out to the family members and friends, too. :-(:::: The victims seem to have been such beautiful, amazing, intelligent and genuine people, and it is sick that a psychopath like Ray abused their trust as he did. May he spend the remainder of his sad, pathetic days bathed in the homely off-orange glow of a used prison uniform, and trapped in the confines of a jail cell that is as empty and bleak as his soul…

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  • Kyle said:

    I can only say A-fucking-men!

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  • Mario said:

    The judge and jury understand very well that the damage done by Mr. Ray extends well beyond the atrocities of the 2009 heat challenge. The pain and sorrow that will be expressed next week will slam home the impact that this swindling charlatan has perpetrated.

    I expect he will get the maximum allowable sentence.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +21

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    WakeUpOrg Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -12

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    RevRon Reply:

    @WakeUpOrg, If he gets put in 2, I’d wager that the “informal” justice system will kick in and …

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    Dale Reply:

    @RevRon, Right. If he reflected on that, he might not *want* out in 2 years…

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    SD Reply:

    @WakeUpOrg ::

    Remember a couple of days ago when you sent out a bunch of @’replies about Ray getting acquitted to people personally involved in this tragedy even though you’re just some idiot gawker who knows shit about shit?

    Cause I remember …

    It’s like pulling over at the scene of a family in a car crash and telling the frantic mother :: “I’ve seen this kind of thing before … your daughter will likely die. No offense … I’m just saying.”

    That sort of comment would get you punched in the face at most accident scenes. Consider this :: my third time telling you to fuck off and that I don’t care about your stupid predictions :: a similar punch in the face … and then get the hell off my freeway.

    [Reply]

  • coldweathergal said:

    Anyone know what Judge Darrow’s sentencing record is like? Does he tend to be lenient or strict?

    Relieved at the verdict but so sorry it wasn’t for the top count–and there are still mistrial motions to be ruled on. But I was so afraid of a hung jury.

    My heart goes out to all the families who have been maimed by JAR. Kirby, James and Liz–Colleen–and all the others who have suffered permanent physical and psychological damage.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +16

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    Omikse Reply:

    @coldweathergal,…The newspaper, the Verde Independant, stated the most recent mistrial motion was denied Wednesday by Judge Darrow( yesterday).

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    [Reply]

  • Jean D said:

    @SD If a picture says a thousand words, this incredible video creation says a million.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @Jean D,

    Where’s the lemonade? We should have a toast!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Jean D Reply:

    @Hippo, Yes,let’s toast. And we’ll be right here on the porch waiting and watching. I see Babz and Omikse here,too. The whole gang! Hope the Troll stays away.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Jean D, @Omikse, @Hippo

    Got strawberry lemonade with ice! My front deck is hosed clean, flowers blooming, even the dog is waiting…I’m ready from here in So Cal. Wish I hadn’t lost my camera or I’d send you a picture!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @Linda Em,

    Oh, my goodness, I’m in SoCal also. Didn’t realize you were so close.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Hippo, yep…Inland Empire, though I’d rather be in one of those beach cities…so where are you? Send me an e mail…we could become Facebook friends.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    Hippo Reply:

    To Linda:

    Actually I’m right at the coast, a few blocks from the ocean. So we’re farther away than I thought.

    I’m not on Facebook–I don’t like that stuff, it gives me the creeps.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    Omikse Reply:

    @Hippo,…I’ve got the lemonade & ginger snaps ready, porch swept off, rockers all polished…(and LK locked up in a secret location!!!)

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Jean D Reply:

    @Omikse, Really curious where you put LK.

    @Linda Em Welcome! The porch is so nice here at Salty Droid’s place. The chairs and lemonade and cookies are delicious. Great company. We wait and watch for his latest creative endeavor,sort of semi-stalking,then we start sharing ideas. Periodically SD makes an appearance, says something,and occasionally has to knock a troll off the steps.

    Aw,life in Cyberlandia.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Jean D,…as to the whereabouts of the King of the Knuckle-dragging Trolls…shhhhh, it’s a secret.

    “Cyberlandia”…awesome place! We will have to write up our constitution soon, and allow no trolls to infiltrate our boarders!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Jean D, @Omikse @Hippo…that sure was a great get together. Especially the ginger snaps…I haven’t had those in ages! Now it’s Tuesday we hold our breath for.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • NegBox said:

    SD, Great video… Brilliant coverage. If “The Secret” law of attraction is right, then it means there are a lot of men in orange jumpsuits really attracted to Gay-Ray, just waiting to give him a proper welcome.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Dancing Bubba Reply:

    @NegBox, Maybe James can start a Mankind Project Group in the joint and teach his new friends how to be manly men. Yeah that’s the ticket, unless it causes a sudden increase in his black eye collection, along with other assorted abrasions and contusions.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • _cartman_ said:

    Someone recently asked in one of the homicider’s thread about his house [[sorry to whoever it was, but I had the comment almost completed, my browser crashed, I lost the post when tabs did not reopen, & then it completely slipped my mind]].

    I don’t know if the homicider still occupies the house, but realty sites show it is still listed for sale @ $3.695MM [[down from the $5.5MM listing price, & the $4MM purchase price he paid]]. It did go into escrow in March [[zillows history shows a pending sale]], but for whatever reason it fell through.

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11964-Crest-Pl-Beverly-Hills-CA-90210/20032163_zpid/

    It would appear that the lore of attraction failed, and so did the homicider’s ability to attract harmonic wealth.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +18

    [Reply]

  • Poop Chute said:

    James Ray convicted of James Raying — THREE TIMES!

    I wish it could be 20 years. Sadly, I’ll be surprised if he serves more than 3 — so I’m going to continue to hope for 20.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

  • Cosmic Connie said:

    And in the No Big Surprise category, Scientist Bob speaks out again about his friend:
    “Bob Proctor, a self-help leader and longtime friend of James Arthur Ray, said although he did not support the sweat-lodge retreat, he would have liked to see Ray vindicated.”

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/06/22/20110622arizona-sweat-lodge-trial-verdict-victims-families-response.html

    I am looking forward to the day when the whole truth comes out about Bob.

    “What About Bob?” you may be asking. Can’t say yet. Maybe someday.

    Now I’m off to the search engines again to see what, if anything, The Wanker of Oz, aka Shameless Schirmer, has to say about the verdict. Besides Bob, he is the only other selfish-help guru that I know of who has publicly spoken up for Ray since Sweatgate happened. (IMO the namby-pamby “let’s reserve judgment” remarks from Mr. Fire et al. don’t count as speaking up.)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, Here is John Assaraf’s post from his FB page: “I am not surprised at the guilty verdict after reading the case and also knowing what happened at other events. Especially since another person committed suicide during one of the events and apparently he and his team covered it up. In addition, others have been hurt in previous sweat lodges he had and that was not admitted in court. I feel sad for James and awful for the families and others who have been negatively affected by this tragedy. I also feel that some justice has been served. I choose not to judge and only send love to all involved. That’s my 2 cents.”

    Quite different from Bob Proctor’s comment.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    @luckygalnj Reply:

    @kalista7, I gotta hand it to Assaraf as he is the one who has steppedout first on Larry King when it happened and now on Facebook. That shows courage or…is he just super savvy in taking the lead?

    Unlike the “others” – and by that I mean those who appeared in The Secret and lined up for the cash and the list who are currently promoting Proctor’s launch – who are either speaking privately or just ignoring it in hopes it will go away, Assaraf is cleverly using the media and social media to show the world that inspite of their physical resemblance…he is NOT JAR!

    yes,” I know him, what happened was bad, no one win, i don’t judge, love to all”. In other words tsk, tsk about JAR and his programs but that’s not me and btw my OneCoach business went bankrupt due to unforseen harmonic disruptions in the ecomony, business model, you guys weren’t making your vision boards right because you bought stuff from Staples instead of my “vision board kit” BUT stay tuned I will have a new launch out soon. And because I ve been so non- judgemental about JAR, he has promised to offer it to his list and at a special limited time price. sweat lodge survivors will receive a special code to use.

    Skeptical and cynical at least for now, that’s me

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @@luckygalnj, LOL, good point!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @kalista7, An overdue response: Thanks for the info about Assaraf. My first thought when seeing his name in your comment was that he has little room to talk about JAR, in light of all of his recent financial disasters (despite that vision board and so forth). But then I saw @luckygalnj’s response, which says all that needs to be said.

    At this point it’s hard to predict whether Assaraf’s response will be echoed by other Secret “stars” who have not yet spoken up, or if some will come out more strongly in JAR’s defense — and make it a case for the defense of the entire selfish-help industry — as Kevin True-dough recently did on his KT Network show (June 24). KT has little to lose either way, because while he is part of the industry in a sense, he is also above it in ways that most of The Secret stars can only envy. Other lesser hucksters will probably feel they have to walk a finer line.

    In any case I have no doubt that most of the Secret stars and other gurus in the selfish-help/McSpirituality/LGAT industry are being asked by followers to make a public statement about the JAR conviction. Since I don’t follow any of them on Facebook I only have their blogs and Twitter pages to go by. And so far, it seems few have spoken up.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Deiss Affiliate Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, If you have the goods on Bob Proctor NOW would be the time.

    He is in the middle of a pre launch for six minutes to success, a wrench needs to be thrown, like right now…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Deiss Affiliate Reply:

    Bob proctors affiliate launch page with leader board

    http://www.sixminutesjvblog.com/

    Here are the Top 25 OVERALL to date:

    Here are the Top 25 OVERALL to date:

    1 Blair Gorman
    2 Tapping Solution
    3 Mind Movies
    4 Mind Valley
    5 Bill Harris
    6 Brian Proctor
    7 Doug Westmoreland
    8 Vic Johnson
    9 Brian Tracy
    10 Frank Mangano
    11 Sonia Ricotti
    12 Alvin Huang
    13 James Ray
    14 Vick Strizheus
    15 Ed Rush
    16 James Thompson
    17 Magnus Huckvale
    18 Robert Anthony
    19 Lee Jenkins
    20 Chris Attwood
    21 Larry Ostrovsky
    22 Henk Schram
    23 John Assaraf
    24 Ed O’Keefe
    25 My Daily Insights

    Thanks again for the support, we really appreciate you guys.

    Lanny Morton

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    JRaff Reply:

    I see JAR on 13th. Is he preparing frauduct “making $$$ from behind the bars”.

    “Internetz moniez flowz, even if you are behind the bars”

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Movie Critic said:

    Watching “The Secret” with James Arthur Ray will be like watching “The Towering Inferno” with O.J. Simpson.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Movie Critic, Good comparison. And I noticed that on the Death Ray report on ABC Nightline last night, they played a snippet of Ray’s “magic genie” scene in The Secret.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Reality Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    “The Secret” and “The Towering Inferno”;

    Two perfectly enjoyable movies ruined by an asshat.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    James Reply:

    @Reality, Does anyone know what Rhonda Byrnes statement says? If she’s smart she will distance herself from ALL of them and do yet another big secret WITHOUT any of the losers she chose the first time around. Looks like most of them were just sucking up to her and off her for whatever they could get even it all they got was infamy because ….. major conincidence …. they all changed their story when things started going against them.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • spoonfaceboy said:

    From the live chat event here:http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/23/20110623james-ray-live-chat.html

    Comment From Richard
    I am a personal friend of James Ray and have known him for over 10 years. I can tell you that he does want to help people reach their goals and is very good at it. He also wants to make money. If the market will support paying $10,000 for a week long retreat, then why not charge that much? I can tell you that he was devastated emotionally by what happened. I have also have lead and participated in sweat lodges and medicine ceremonies in South America. People get sick. People don’t fell well sometimes during the ceremony. I don’t believe that James thought anything unusual was happening at the 2009 ceremony. As his friend I would like to have seen not guilty on all charges; however, I do understand the decision. The biggest issue with the whole situation is our fear of our own mortality. We all die. Nothing is lost or gained. The people who died simply moved to the next phase of their existence doing what they loved and following their beliefs.

    What a douche.

    Muchly debated. What do you think? Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Reality Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy,

    Ray’s followers are cult members. They’re lost and confused now that their leader is no more. Kind of like when Warren Jeffs, the polygamist cult leader, was arrested. His followers were stumbling around confused without a daily dose of receiving orders and mindlessly following them.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Reality, My God, does he still have followers? That never occurred to me. Are there still people out there who are looking to him as some sort of guru? And how could that be? Oh geez. Even if someone still believes the beliefs, okay, but I can’t fathom that there are people who still believe in him. Yikes, what a thought.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @2LateSmart, Incredible as it seems, Death Ray still has followers and potential followers. To me, one big indication is that so many clueless people have continued to re-tweet him, even through the trial, and to quote him as if he were some fount of great wisdom. Some continued to do so even after being confronted by other Twitter users who informed them about what was going on.

    And his marketing machine has churned on even when he was supposedly out of pocket; besides those stupid and insensitive tweets (most of which were probably generated by a minion), what remained of the Ray organization was still sending out email blasts and so forth.

    I think we need to put things in perspective. So many people still have very little awareness of the whole Death Lodge event and trial, and even Ray’s conviction probably won’t change that. Add to this the fact that the public has a short memory. Then factor in all of the people who will rationalize by saying that hey, Ray isn’t perfect, but you gotta separate the message from the messenger… (I can’t help thinking about people such as Richard Bandler, who, though acquitted of a murder years ago, still probably has blood on his hands, but is idolized by thousands of NLP believers.)

    In short, I wouldn’t count Ray out just yet.

    Nevertheless, I think this conviction is cause for optimism — cautious optimism (as Hippo mentioned), but optimism nonetheless — that there will be some justice for those who died and for the families and friends they left behind.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, Thanks for the reality check – I’m flabbergasted that this asshat might still have followers. But, as I said above, if he gets out and goes back into business, I intend to be right there in the very front row at his seminars being just as outspoken there as I am here, and I hope some others will join me.

    I took some NLP training once and laughed like holy hell – I don’t remember what was so funny about it, but I think they screwed around with syntax like Ray does with that “When would NOW be a good time to….” whatever. It just cracked me up. Anyway, I hadn’t heard about Bandler’s murder. I’ll have to check that out. I also didn’t realize there are people who idolize him.

    I had a friend once, a really brilliant, highly educated woman who was into Siddha Yoga – my husband and I went to an event with her one night. It was awesome, great food, wonderful music, fun people. Then everyone meditated and chanted. Okay, I can do that. Then they all kissed a photograph of their guru. Gurumayi. Kissed. Her photograph. I asked my friend, “So, she’s like Jesus or something?” She smiled condescendingly and said “Oh no. She’s perfected.” Erm, no thanks. I’m not into this whole worshipping humans thing, no matter who it is!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Jean D Reply:

    @2LateSmart, Some people I know drank Muktananda’s bathwater.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @2LateSmart, Personally, I find kissing crosses and other representations of Jesus odd, too. It’s also a violation of the second commandment. That story is funny on many levels, though. One of the many reason that Jesus is worshiped is that he was supposedly “perfected.” The concept of the perfecti is neither unique, nor original to Christianity. Antecedents can be found in Egyptian and Hindu teaching, among others. I find it hilarious that your friend discounted the perfection of Jesus, but not her guru. Here’s the thing, though. If she’s still in the flesh, she doesn’t fit any mythical concept of the perfecti.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    Anon Reply:

    @2LateSmart, David Schirmer frequently uses this quote also
    “When would NOW be a good time to….” It seems they all copy off each other. Any wonder they are all ending up in the same crap heap.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    Anna Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy, I listened to 4 mths of testimony and not once did I hear anyone say that he tried to help ANYONE! NOT ONCE! Are we talking about the same James Ray!? He was so devastated that he left the scene, now that’s what I call “concern” So devastated that he sat back and watched everyone scurry around as he cooled himself. So devastated that he lied about Colleen’s death and unfortunately the jury never heard any of that. The only reason he was devastated is because he finally got caught. Hopefully they will open up a real investigation about Colleen now, and send him behind bars for the rest of his devastated life.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Anna, Totally agree. When I first heard about the deaths at the sweat lodge, my first thought was, “WTF happened?? Nobody dies at a sweat lodge.” So I thought there must have been some kind of horrible accident there. But when they said that the leader of the lodge took off and LEFT THE OTHER ATTENDEES BEHIND, I. Was. Astonished. I thought that was one of the most selfish and cruel acts I could imagine, and that was before I found out that he murdered the dead and dying by running his “Non-weenie-ass” sweat lodge the way he did. When I heard about Colleen’s death, and heard it was the same guy, I felt like someone had run ice cubes up my spine. And when I heard about the party, and the fact that people knew she was dead, and HE knew she was dead, and didn’t say anything, it….it’s unspeakable, the cruelty and selfishness of this man. He’s monstrous. Monstrous. I hope Oprah’s very proud of the part she played in adding to this freak’s ego and credibility.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    White Rabbit Reply:

    @2LateSmart,

    Let us not forget that when questioned by the detective his immediate response was “it was run by Ted”. Also he lived in Las vegas and only 40 people were in there.

    James is a numbers guy. He knew exactly how many were there. He couldn’t throw others under the bus fast enough on his exit.

    Richard…time to take the red pill.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy, now we have an even more horrific spin than the frank-kern-FTC spin.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy,

    I feel sorry for that guy. He sounds pretty brainwashed.

    Those comments minimizing death–as if it’s no big deal–are pretty retarded.

    They are a complete slap in the face to the grieving family members. Notice how he suggests that the only bad thing about death is that we’re afraid of it.

    Uh, how about a suffering, living person missing his/her loved one???

    This demonstrates Ray’s lack of attachment to people. The only factor to be considered in death is where you’re going afterward, not what happens to the people left behind.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • Jean D said:

    Thanks to Yakaru for posting this on the last thread. State’s witnesses for the aggravation hearing:

    Virginia Brown
    Ross Diskin
    Megan Fredrickson
    Amayra Hamilton
    Alyssa Gillespie
    Jane Gripp-Shore
    Michael Hamilton
    Melinda Martin
    Andrea Puckett

    Statements made by Virginia Brown,Andrea Puckett and Jane Gripp-Shore will be Victim Impact Statements http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32515 Here’s the link from Jan,2011,when the defense asked to have the VIS excluded,but the motion was denied: http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/01-10-2011%20REPLY%20%20IN%20SUPPORT%20OF%20MOTION%20IN%20LIMINE%20TO%20EXCLUDE.pdf

    Let’s pray that these 3 family members’ statements convey the full impact of what Ray has done to them and to all who knew and loved Kirby, Liz,and James. Let’s also pray that the words of the other witnesses be heard and understood and that the right punishment be exacted for the offender(no longer the “defendant”)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +18

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @Jean D,

    I believe this will be powerful testimony against Ray. Melinda Martin offered strong testimony against Ray, as did Amyra Hamilton.

    Brief words from Randy Neumann, who was married to Liz Neumann for 23 years.

    http://www.azfamily.com/news/Family-town-of-Camp-Verde-react-to-Ray-Verdict-124397334.html

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Jean D Reply:

    @Bethann, That’s a great video of Randy Neumann. Very sad.

    @ Linda Em Click on the link I provided.VIS made only by victims and their families. Interesting fact I just discovered on wikipedia: “Victim impact statements originate from the Manson Murders in 1969.” That’s irony right there.

    Many of us are curious about what Megan F. will say. She’s a witness for the State.I don’t know what a “plant” is.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Jean D, How come no impact statement from Stephen Ray or Sidney Spencer? Why is Megan Frederickson in there? Is she a plant?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    @luckygalnj Reply:

    @Linda Em, look for her to be exposed as an accomplice, one of the aggravating circumstances

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Josh said:

    Here is how things should have gone down for old Death Ray…

    Maybe they’ll throw the max possible sentence at him. I doubt it.

    As everyone else is saying a least it wasn’t a mistrial or acquittal… at least he will be meeting Tyrome. Still weak.

    American justice once again somewhat prevails for the killers who can afford the “dream teams.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    this in NYMag today: “Last week, Oprah declared that she dreams of O.J. Simpson confessing to her on her newish (and struggling) OWN channel. “I am going to make that happen, people,” she said. “I don’t just want the interview. I want the interview on the condition that you are ready, Mr. Simpson.” Apparently, when you’re Oprah, all you have to do is say something, out loud, and it comes true, because Simpson has reportedly agreed to confess to Oprah, according to the National Enquirer. The tabloid reports that Simpson recently fessed up to one of Oprah’s producers from prison, where he’s currently serving a nine-year sentence for armed robbery, and intends to do the same to Oprah. Simpson reportedly claimed to the producer that while he did kill Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman (mystery solved!) he did it in self-defense. And however full of shit that explanation sounds, is there anyone who wouldn’t tune in to watch it?”

    I am amazed at the amount of ‘no-class’ that some people possess…just amazing…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @Omikse,

    I would like to see Oprah confess that she is a complete douchebag for promoting James Ray, Rhonda Byrne, and anyone else connected with “The Secret.”

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Obvious Reply:

    @Hippo,

    Of course she won’t. Why do you think she quit broadcast TV?

    She made her retirement announcement one month after the Sweat Lodge tragedy. The victims most likely saw Ray on Oprah.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • ChrissyLincoln said:

    I am very curious about Megan F’s testimony…. she is on witness list next week. I know she has been given immunity but in the transcript I read she almost wasn’t there at all, forgot this, couldn’t remember that, not sure about this, etc etc etc. Can she get by with that on the stand? And 2 days? They really expect only 2 days? As soon as the Prosecution calls a witness the DT will object. Maybe Darrow will exert some more control? Is this rambling making any sense at all?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Hello all. I am semi-elated about the NH guilty conviction of the alpha and omega of dick heads. As much as I enjoyed Salty’s video I would surely have loved to have seen it with a guilty verdict for reckless manslaughter! That would have been priceless. I hope I am not being a stick in the mud here, but I really have concerns about ‘NO BALLS’ Darrow. He nearly let the trial get away from him several time’s being steamrolled by the petulant,insidious, arrogant defense.He really made this an uphill battle all the way for the prosecution by allowing the defense to distract this trial to the point of absurdity! (Case in point,a six and half hour closing by Li Liezalot).Is he going to be as tentative when it’s time to put the hammer down on his suckness? I sincerely hope this reaches a just and finial conclusion via a maximum sentence on all counts. PS. Ms. Polk was simply amazing and should be very proud of her work in this trial. Thank You. Thank you. Thank you….

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +18

    [Reply]

    wondering why Reply:

    @machineageart,

    I totally agree with you!! It was painful to watch Judge Darrow..He totally lost control of his court MANY times!! I feel he leaned over backwards way to much for the defense..I am sure he was trying to be fair, but I think he made the prosection’s job A LOT harded than it should have been..The prosecution fought a long hard uphill battle..Hopefully they have indeed STOPPED Ray from doing anymore damage for a long, long time!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @wondering why, Yep. I’d like to have seen Judge Perry with this case. Especially with Li’s calendar flipping.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    I continue to be amazed at JAR’s attitude, never one to feel sorrow for the pain he’s inflicted upon other’s, never recalcitrant, never asking his attorney’s to call off the dog’s, no tears for those who’ve suffered, and those who’ve died.

    James Arthur Ray … spiritually, emotionally, humanistically, dead man walking.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

  • Jason said:

    These guys dont like confronting reality do they. Prepared to dish our all the fake advice they want and make up a figure to charge for it, but they dont want to take it themselves.

    When they reaslize they need to start looking inside themselves instead of preaching at everybody else they will realize what morons they have been for so many years.

    And to be honest I think the secret movie has a lot to blame for this ego crap, it seemed to put stupidity in the stratosphere. Just shows what man is capable of when they think they can have it all by lording it over others.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    2LateSmart Reply:

    @Jason, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said The Secret “put stupidity in the stratosphere”. It was already out there, but being marketed so heavily and given the approval of Oprah the Almighty just pushed it right over the top. It was just a beautifully packaged, smartly marketed long con job perpetrated by con artists that aren’t even that good – they just happened to get in on the right project at the right time. Sounds like it’s coming around to bite quite a few of them in the ass these days.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

    Jason Reply:

    @2LateSmart, Yes especially the chunder from down under David Schirmer.

    web site: thesecret.com.au/the-secret-teachers/james-arthur-ray/

    Puts two wankers on the same level.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    OMIkSE: OMG, that is truly nauseating news! What an incredible piece of tabloid trash that wonder woman Oprah has uncovered! Who would have ever guessed? OJ really was the killer!!!! Incredible! Shocking! And completely UNNECESSARY! She should win the prestigious ‘Tell us something we don’t already fu^c^&g know award’ for this one. And,on the following weeks show She dares to ask the burning Question,”Is the Bigfoot video a Fake’? And later, Are cigarettes bad for your health? And the season finale “ARE ALIENS RUNNING YOUR GOVERNMENT? She’s a F’in billionaire for hosting a DAYTIME talk show for people who ‘absolutely, positively, have NOTHING better to do’! BUT, when she step’s in the shit, like she did with the ‘Secret’, she will not even comment on her involvement.She is after all above reproach. All the cash and glory with none of the responsibility.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    2LateSmart Reply:

    @machineageart, Genius. I have only one thing to add to your brilliant post – all the cash and glory and none of the responsibility is right – hmmmm, just like James Arthur Ray. Birds of a cowardly stinking selfish feather.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @machineageart,…yes, I see Oprah and Larry King running to Arizona very soon, to do an interview with Jimmy, titled “How James Ray Fooled Me.” Not titled “How James Ray and I Made Money Off You Suckers!”

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    2lateSmart. Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it. It really does help to vent,otherwise you just grow a tumor or something! EGHHH>

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Harsh Realm said:

    Don’t drop the soap, James.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Dancing Bubba Reply:

    @Harsh Realm, He’ll want to keep the soap nearby I’m sure.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • Anne said:

    @NegBox, @Dancing Bubba, @Harsh Realm,

    I am glad that James Ray was convicted, and I hope he spends time in prison, however, I don’t think rape is a joking matter.

    It’s not funny even when it happens to a man, even when it happens to a prisoner, and even if it were to happen to James Ray.

    I think it is really sad to see being sexually violated treated as a joking matter and as an acceptable part of punishment for a crime. It should not be.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Dancing Bubba Reply:

    @Anne, Maybe they’ll keep him in segregation where he can contemplate the error of his ways.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    @Anne, I appreciate your point of view, though driving your point of view home with what the phrase “it should not be” is kind of silly.

    So many, many things that should be, are not and so many, many things that should not be, are.

    Humor makes that reality a little easier to swallow.

    Bully for you for sticking up for what’s important to you.

    JAR getting poked in the rear organ pipe a few times won’t kill him.

    Joking is coping.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy, et al.: As I recall, we had this discussion on this blog previously regarding JAR, and if memory serves, even our host conceded that prison rape is no joking matter. I don’t relish the thought of JAR or any other prisoner — man or woman — being raped or otherwise physically abused.

    Actually (and I’m sure I’ve mentioned this before), to me a more satisfying scenario would be for JAR to be sentenced to a life of doing menial labor for the loved ones of the people who died — scouring their toilets, scrubbing their floors, cleaning their garages and basements…pretty much being an indentured servant. The family members — those who could stand being in his presence, that is — could have him on kind of a time-share basis.

    Maybe a few YouTube vids of the formerly proud selfish-help rock star scrubbing commodes would be in order.

    I do not mean to imply that menial labor is in itself dishonorable, but it’s all about context, and for a formerly cocky sort like JAR it would be demeaning. And if he were compelled to perform the tasks in seriously overheated conditions, not being allowed to leave the work area until given permission to do so, perhaps that would drive the point home. While he labored, the family members could sit in a cooler, more comfortable area of the home and eat sandwiches.

    But I guess I’m not the one to decide these things.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, James Ray on menial labor:

    ‘Lorena tells me about a woman who stood up and proudly told the group that she wanted to help people. Lorena describes her as young and pretty, although she appeared to have been abused by males previously. Lorena says James Ray yelled at this poor woman, shouted her down and screamed she wasn’t being specific enough. He berated her and told her that janitors help people and maybe that was what she wanted to do. She cried and cried and Lorena said it was like watching James Ray “stepping on a kitten”.’

    Yup. Janitors are failed human beings who weren’t specific enough with their universe genie catalog thing. So much elitism and abusiveness to dispense. So little time.

    And, no, rape is never funny or just.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @LaVaughn, Thanks for sharing that story. In light of this incident, perhaps a lifetime of menial labor (duly recorded and publicly shared) would be the best punishment for JAR.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @LaVaughn, Of course I should also thank @Cassandra Yorgey for writing the linked-to blog post in the first place. :-)

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    Oh, I see now. Jokes about prison salad tossing are evil, but jokes about slavery are enlightened.

    I’m kidding.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    katiecoolady Reply:

    @LaVaughn,

    Good Lord…”stepping on a kitten”. That’s disgusting.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @katiecoolady, Yeah. Turns out he’s not a nice guy.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    Hippo Reply:

    @LaVaughn,

    That is a heartbreaking story. I wonder if JAR did something similar to Colleen at her seminar?

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Colleen's brother-in-law Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, I wouldn’t let that sorry SON OF A BITCH anywhere near my loved ones, or my home, I’m afraid of what I would do if I allowed it…….sorry if I sound vindictive, I just remember what he ( and his minions) did to, not only one damn fine human being (colleen), but to our entire family…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Colleen’s brother-in-law, That’s perfectly understandable, and I’m sorry if my remark seemed in any way insensitive to the families of the victims; I didn’t intend it to be. Perhaps a lifetime of community service that included cleaning public toilets or portable restrooms would be a more appropriate punishment for JAR.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    sebel Reply:

    @Colleen’s brother-in-law, If it helps at all I feel the same way as you do about another secret contributor. What he did to our family was shameless and all the while he was claiming to be a christian (cough cough). These people have no idea the depth of hurt and the affect their words and actions have towards others lives including immediate family, friends, relatives. They speak with authority when they have none, they demand attention when they deserve none, they charge like hungry sharks and show no reason to justify it, and they’ve all proved to be ego driven narcissists. It does not surprise me when I hear people have committed suicide while being in contact with these people and I know of at least one who did. They always deny that anything they have said or done has caused anyone else emotional turmoil. Their comeback is set to default – blame the victim. They sure have a lot to answer for and they wont like the consequences when the time does come to answer.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Jean D Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, I’ve envisioned turning Ray’s house into a non-profit center to help people who’ve been victimized by faux self-help con artists and cults. Of course, it would have to be completely sanitized,painted and blessed to get the slime out.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    spoonfaceboy Reply:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    Yakaru Reply:

    Maybe this’ll work. close italics !!!

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy, I wasn’t expecting to “convert” you; in my comment I merely pointed out that we’ve had this discussion here before. Then I went on to discuss what I thought would be more appropriate punishments for James Ray.

    I’m not arguing that prison itself isn’t abusive on many levels. It is. Prison should be punishment of course, but I think our prison system is in dire need of reform, as prisoners *are* often abused, and rape is just one part of it.

    When the Death Lodge story first broke, and for months afterward, I was up in the air about whether or not I thought JAR deserved a prison sentence. Some of my allies couldn’t believe I was being so stubborn about this. It was only after hearing and reading a lot more about Ray’s longtime pattern of behavior, and in particular his behavior that led to the deaths at Sedona, that I came to lean towards the “lock him up” camp. (Actually, reading Connie Joy’s book “Tragedy in Sedona” is what really convinced me.)

    That said, in general I am still not sure that prison is the best answer for *most* serial scammers and con artists (yes, even Kevin True-dough)– not only because I think prison should be reserved for the most violent criminals, but also because prison sentences don’t really stop scammers.

    But I’ve had this argument on various forums and my opinion seems to be a minority one, at least on the forums in which I’ve participated. The most common argument against my moderate stance is that it’s almost impossible to stop some con artists without incapacitating them, and absent killing them, just about the only way to do that is to lock ‘em up. To which I respond that even then the incapacitation is temporary at best, and of course some con artists continue to run scams from prison. The argument could go on and on. I’m still open to changing my basic opinion.

    In any case, when deaths are involved — such as they were with James Ray — that is far more serious, and the punishment should be much more than a slap on the wrist. The more evidence I heard over the months, the more I came to believe that even if JAR didn’t set out to murder his followers, his reckless actions led to their deaths.

    I too have joked about orange jumpsuits and such, and maybe those are not my finest moments. But I have my own personal boundaries about what I find funny, and IMO rape jokes just aren’t, even though as you said, they are very common. I don’t think they’re funny whether they are repeated here or on some stage at a comedy club or talk show. We all have different ideas of what we find funny. You can joke about butt-f—-g all you want if it amuses you, and I can choose not to participate in those jokes.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, I was never on the fence over Ray belonging in prison. But I take your point, totally. Prisons don’t rehabilitate in most cases; certainly not people with personality disorders. And they don’t do anything to bring back the dead. But the reason I wanted to see him locked up is that it will at least slow him down. He will still have followers but his ability to recruit just dropped dramatically because he’s now a convicted felon. Just being prosecuted and having it publicized undoubtedly hurt him in his ability to secure locations for events. What hotel or resort would want to sponsor him after the way he threw Angel Valley under the bus? Look at all the Hamiltons have lost because they provided him space. He’ll still find followers and keep a fair number of his older ones but he’s damaged goods now. The reason I always wanted him prosecuted was simple: Stop him before he kills again.

    Rape jokes: Never, ever funny. Anything that trivializs the life altering trauma that rape survivors endure is not and cannot be funny. I have a sick sense of humor but it stops right about there.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    SD Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy ::

    That’s such a stupid argument … and then as a cherry on top you didn’t close your tags and it messed up the rest of the page. That’s prolly more my fault … but I’m still blaming you.

    Jokes that trivialize victimization aren’t jokes … they are enablers of denial and inaction.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @spoonfaceboy, Maybe James will have to learn to be a giver—rather than a taker, in prison. Be good for his growth.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Randall Reply:

    @, I think there’s a good chance he will be a taker. And we all know where he will be taking it…

    Thumb up Thumb down -3

    [Reply]

    Yakaru Reply:

    @Anne,

    I totally agree with you. No one deserves to be raped, and anyway that “joke” wasn’t funny the first time back in 2009 and repeating it over and over on every thread doesn’t also doesn’t make it funny. Sorry guys, but isn’t it time you learned a new joke?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    ON OPRAH THIS FALL>>> WHO KILLED ABRAHAM LINCOLN? ALSO;IS THE KKK RACIST? OPEY GETS TO GRITS ON THIS ONE… AND; OPRAH ASKS YOU THE VIEWER “ARE INSURANCE COMPANY’S JUST IN IT FOR THE MONEY. DON’T MISS.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

  • wondering why said:

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Jason Reply:

    @wondering why, Yes but JR’s pants arent up high enough. Also is his mate squirmy schirmy the one hiding behind JR’s arse or am I just visualising that?

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    TJ Reply:

    @Jason, Apparently “Being rich or poor is never a money issue, it is always a mindset issue.” If these guys really believe this shit why do they all end up exposed as frauds? Look at James Rays mate Schirmer, he’s lost pretty much everything he ever had the chance to lay his hands on and been exposed as the proverbial lying wanker and he still hasn’t learnt a thing. He is still claiming to be the god and guru or all greed. It seems to penetrated these guys lives to the point where they dont know how to get off the cycle. I have my own theory about it and I think they are attention seeking and cant contain their jealousy of everyone who is honestly successful.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • billie said:

    I lived with a charasmatic, intelligent, narcissist for 24 years. I had no understanding of personality disorders and I kept expecting my ex to be truthful to himself and me. Sometimes he was—–but for only fleeting minutes.- The narcissist has no incentive to get real– getting real destroys the self-facade of specialness that keeps his “high” in tact. Usually, the caualties of people like this are the “normal” loved ones around them. Narcissists and sociopaths do not get better, do not see the light,do not heal. Don’t expect JAR to get it. He believes HE is the victim. He feels sorry for himself (and is likely enraged, too). It’s crazy.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @billie,

    I agree 100%. That’s why the only thing that can be done with people like this is to force legal consequences on them. They can’t be rehabilitated.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

  • nancy said:

    Somehow I doubt he will learn anything from this except self-pity. As for the comments above about Judge Darrow letting the defense run amok, I am no lawyer but am guessing that he was carefully preventing appeals issues.

    As for Judge Darrow’s sentencing history, a quick google search brought up a recently convicted, creepy-looking sexual molester who the Judge sentenced to 138 in prison — the maximum sentence allowed. I do not think he will be soft on Mr Ray.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    Pathfinder Reply:

    @nancy, the defense which incTludes Mr. Kelly who has known and worked with Judge Darrow since at least the mid 90′s will appeal for the discretion of the bench and argue for a light sentence.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

  • Mario said:

    Isn’t it fabulous the crib purchased with the ponzi money shortly before the charlatan’s world turned into a yard sale is heading towards a fire sale? Woo Hoo!!

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11964-Crest-Pl-Beverly-Hills-CA-90210/20032163_zpid/

    How perfect is it that his f*cking taxes doubled at the same time he was indicted? Check it out, in 2010 the property taxes rocketed above $51,000!! Knowing what a little money whore that fuck is, that had to piss him off. He was probably asking, when would now be a good time to hose my World Wealth Society even harder then I already am?

    I’m renaming his address: 11964 Crestfallen Place.

    Hey James, when would now be a good time to say goodbye to Hollywood?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Mario, LOL. I love the revised address. But I think that by the time he found out about the 2010 tax increase, the World Wealth Society was no more.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • nancy said:

    I can’t wait to see the victim’s impact statements; I hope CNN carries them. One can only hope they will mention JR neglecting to notify them of the deaths/hospitalization of their loved ones, and his failure to reimburse their hefty fees. What an ass.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +13

    [Reply]

  • katiecoolady said:

    What’s the next Seminar? A quickie before he heads to prison called “Harmonic Homicide”?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • jamo said:

    I wonder how Li, Truc Do and Kelly feel now after making asses of themselves?

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Dancing Bubba Reply:

    @jamo, Richer most likely.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    jamo Reply:

    @Dancing Bubba, money isn’t everything

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @Dancing Bubba,
    Witty!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @Dancing Bubba,
    and true, more’s the pity.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    Latest document from Yavapai Sherriff-
    Allegation of aggravating circumstances

    1. Presence of an accomplice

    2. The especially heinous, cruel or depraved manner in which the offense was committed

    3. Defendant committed the offense as consideration for the receipt of anything of pecuniary value

    4. The victim, or if the victim died as a result of the conduct of the defendant, the victim’s immediate family suffered physical, emotional or financial harm

    #1 I don’t see how this item could apply…
    #2 I believe most definitely will apply here…
    #3 Most definitely will apply, to the tune of $10,000. apiece
    #4 Impossible for it not to apply here…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    jamo Reply:

    @Omikse, I think #1 does apply as he brainwashed most of his employees to do the same — ignore severe heat stroke symptoms. Like when Melinda Martin was told “wipe that look of shock off your face”. They all went along with and helped run his extreme heat endurance challenges. For example Megan Fredrickson, who if wasn’t given immunity (for what? — she didn’t testify) is arguably culpable as an accomplice.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @jamo,…wouldn’t his own words come back to bite him…he did tell everyone in his pre-death lodge spiel, that he was the “Lodge Master”…did he mention anyone, even his dream-team members as being co-captains? I understand what you are saying, but in the world of JRI, JAR was the Boss. I am not for a moment suggesting that they did the right thing by holding their jobs, and JAR’s approval of them, above the welfare of the participants. If as you say, “brainwashed most of his employees…” that term bothers me, it would seem to take all decision making abilities away from them. Good decisions and bad decisions.If true, what choice did any of them really have? Perhaps what Megan could/would/should say next week will be very damning, another nail in the JAR coffin. Only offering my opinion, not trying to argue with you or put what the JRI employees did in a good light. In my opinion, the employees laid down with a rabid dog, and got up covered in fleas.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @Omikse, “Presence of an accomplice” — I wonder if that’s why Megan Fredrickson is testifying; they may be leveraging her with the threat of prosecution. As in, testify truthfully or you’re next.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @LaVaughn,

    That would explain the, so far, unused immunity.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    thatguy Reply:

    @Stoic,
    If she testifies she left the message about removing evidence before the detectives got there because JAR gave the order or that that is what he said to do the last time someone died, that would be damning.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

  • Nikki said:

    I’ve just watched the video…my god, what a creepy self-serving narcissistic character.

    I mean, we all knew that anyway, but this just illustrates it hideously and perfectly…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    BigDummy Reply:

    @Nikki, I accidentally clicked the wrong button. sorry. It should have been a thumbs up.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    Megan Fredrickson left a message on Melinda Martin’s phone, to get down to the office immediately, they needed to clean out Ray’s files. Melinda saved the voice mail and contacted the authorities.

    She was an extremely strong voice for the prosecutor’s, never waivered and held her own against the, “bully defense.”

    I’m uncertain if Megan gave two depositions. I know the one I read, Megan had her attorney present and throughout the interview she said, “I don’t know,” and, “I don’t remember.”

    Her testimony should prove interesting.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +15

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    I think your right LaVaughn. They obviously believe she has some very damaging info on JAR(head) or they wouldn’t be putting her on the stand for these arguments. she has to have more than the “I don’t recall,I can’t remember,I’m really not sure,” answers she gave the detectives. She was offered immunity to take the stand during the trial, but was never called???? (curious huh). This may be her last chance to worm her way out of being charged as an accomplice…Could be interesting.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Pathfinder Reply:

    @machineageart, MF did on only one interview. Immunity was ONLY for that interview. If she testifies it will be soley for the purpose of defining her role as an accomplice at the Spiritual Warrior event and fullfil one of the four criteria for aggravated circumstances. If she is purjures herself on the stand, she will likely be charged.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • Gone Lapre said:

    Don Lapre indicted and arrested!
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110624/ap_on_en_tv/us_tv_pitchman_charged

    BTW Salty, I mis-typed your domain and a fake you tube survey popped up, obviously a cpa offer “fake survey” style. {sigh}.

    For every one that goes down, it seems like four more pop up out of the abyss…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Lulz Reply:

    @Gone Lapre,

    Don Lapre made his fortune selling tiny, classified ads. In the big house, he’ll have to sell his tiny, sissyfied ass.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Hey Bethann. I was typing the same thoughts while you posted yours. I owe you a coke…

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @machineageart,

    Good to see you posting again. I remember your posts from the now defunct IS boards :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • SD (author) said:

    Jason’s only sister getting married this weekend … so I’m listening … but not speaking.

    Keep it realz!

    [Reply]

    katiecoolady Reply:

    @SD,

    Cheers!

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Martypants said:

    “For every one that goes down, it seems like four more pop up out of the abyss…”

    Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Martypants, We’re gonna need a lot of ammo. As I’ve noted before, we can’t even count JAR out of the selfish-help industry at this point. And judging from the comments I’ve seen regarding stories about the verdict, many members of the general public may see JAR as a scammer, but they don’t seem to have much sympathy for the victims. Take a look at the comments so far on this article on the CNN Religion blog:
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/24/verdict-in-self-help-gurus-sweat-lodge-trial-stirs-reaction-among-native-americans/

    I’ve seen other similar comments on numerous other forums so far.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,…This was posted on Facebook..

    “I met you at a James A Ray Event and IF you would like to send a letter sharing how James has helped you in your life
    I can give you instructions from James.

    The lost of our friends was very difficult and emotional, some people are saddened by the accident… while others are not supportive of the case. Please do…n’t debate the case – the jury has acquitted James of manslaughter but has found him guilty a lesser charge. The letters will be used by his lawyer next Tuesday.

    James helped myself and many others – email back if you would like to write a letter about how James has helped your life for the better.

    Please disregard if you do not wish to participate,
    EMAIL me if you would like instructions….

    Thank You …he has always been in God’s hands
    (I got your email address from and undisclosed email from JAR office years ago
    ….I do not use for any other subject)
    Blessings, Karen Ortiz”

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @Omikse,

    The lawyers have letter’s from Facebook? That’s it? No one from JRI, no highly successful people to testify, none of his complicit psuedo friends from The Secret, no Oprah?

    Between the victim’s families, former employee’s, law enforcement, Ray will not fare well with the aggravated charges.

    Judge Darrow stated after the defense filed for an acquittal and the state had not proven it’s case, JAMES ARTHUR RAY DID HAVE INDEED A DUTY OF CARE, AND THE STATE DID HAVE CAUSE AGAINST RAY.

    I don’t think Darrow will treat these convictions lightly in time of sentencing.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bethann,…what I find disturbing is:…

    “(I got your email address from and undisclosed email from JAR office years ago
    ….I do not use for any other subject)”

    Kind of like, you can never escape his grasp, he or his faithful followers will always find you. It gives me the creeps.(and from the “JAR office”, no less. Is this Karen Ortiz an employee of JRI?/JAR?)

    An equally disturbing fact is “… some people are saddened by the accident…”…WTF, only “some people”??? These people will never get it, they are by far and away beyond hope.

    I keep saying to myself, ” it’s 3 counts,it’s 3 counts”. Ray needs to be put away for however long is possible. Maybe the defense team can use this outreach email that was posted on facebook as a cover letter…then the court can read how “some people are saddened”…slime, ick,…I need to go wash now.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @Omikse,

    Who knows who wrote the testimonial? Paid poster’s on the part of the defense would not surprise me, and then there are those who endlessly say, a contract is a contract, in defense of Ray. Well, if that was a valid argument the Mafia would rule.

    We read the disclaimer, “we do not share your email address or personal information with anyone.” Well, just phooey, these are considered marketing tools and are for sale. Average return in marketing is 1-2%. At JAR’s high cost events, I would imagine the percentage lower.

    I’ve heard JAR speak at a local CofRS, during the height of The Secret. At that time, both JAR and Beckwith played to a full house. It’s my understanding with the decline of interest in The Secret, JAR was becoming more and more desperate for cash. He estblished the WWS, and several non-profit corps in NV. Paranoia, steroid use, narcissitic personality, not a trustworthy or healthy combination.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bethann,…you can check out the copy of the email request at ‘ Tragedy in Sedona:My Life in James Arthur Ray’s Inner Circle ‘ facebook page…it was placed there by someone else to show what is being circulated for Ray, it is not a pro-Ray site. I saw it, could not believe what I was seeing.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @Omikse, @Bethann, A list of every attendee from all the Warrior programs from 2003-2009 was posted on the Yavapai Co. website, with their personal contact info attached to a 4/28/11 motion by the Defense. Luckily, many people called and Ms. Polk had it removed the next morning. So much for privacy…. and a sly little dirty trick by the DT.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    Anonymous Reply:

    @Omikse, his lawyers need to user FB letters!! Wow – I guess 1 really is the loneliest number

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    katiecoolady Reply:

    @Omikse,

    Blech. The “accident”. “Some people are saddened” while others not supportive? Not only does this letter make no sense whatsoever, it’s just flat out disturbing.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Detached Observer Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie,

    Yes it is sad to see how people are so uneducated about this trial and instead choose to type up some quick criticism about how they should of just got out. Of course these same people probably are victims to many other types of crimes or injustices daily but refuse to see it as such because of course they would never “allow” that in their lives. This trial to them shows symbolically how strong they are compared to others and their comments reflect that. I see James Ray feeling wrongly justified in his actions due to the same reasoning; and that is he is being inconvenienced and is only on trial due to the weakness of others.

    Sadly that is the majority of people’s feeling when I have had discussions about this case. Almost every one has stated that it was their fault for staying in the SL and they say it with such reactionary conviction. It takes a nuanced discussion for them to see deeper into the matter and allow themselves to absorb facts about actions that James Ray took to cause the victims harm.

    That’s why I think the prosecution did a great job in this case. I feel that many of the jurors probably had similar thoughts about the victims and it took a rational argument and in-your-face witness testimony for the truth to be absorbed.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    jamo Reply:

    @Detached Observer, agree. That’s why Dr. Dickson’s testimony (that the moment you feel a mental status change, the hallmark of heat stroke, you need to exit and cool down immediately, because if you don’t you may not know to do so in the next moment) was so important.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Elaine B. said:

    For someone who called himself God, I find him nauseating and this is justice for those poor people.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • David Brown Eyes said:

    @ Colleen’s family.

    I am so very very sorry for your loss and I express my regret that a ceremony created by my people was stolen, twisted, and used to do damage to you and your relatives.

    Negligent manslaughter is not a harsh enough conviction for what he did to you and yours. I am hoping for the maximum penalty to be given to Ray as a result of his actions.

    May you be well and know that Native people all across this nation are on your side.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +19

    [Reply]

  • David Brown Eyes said:

    can I remove a post. or modify it? Colleen was an earlier death caused by JAR :(

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    wondering why Reply:

    @David Brown Eyes, Yes Colleen was killed at a shopping mall but I know Colleen’s family will appreciate your kind words..As Ray was responsible for her death also..

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

    Cherryblossom Reply:

    @wondering why, My personal experience is that the people on the secret balatantly abused information they read about and applied it to peoples lives AS IF they were qualified experts. This, in my personal view, is criminal and has lead to a number of people feeling so down they could do away with themselves. James Ray is responsible for the death of those people as are other secret people about the emotional and financial losses the have caused AND THEY KNOW WHAT THAT IS AND WHO THEIR VICTIMS ARE. They cannot hide from it, they cannot wish it never happened, they cannot deny it because the evidence is in their victims lives. They will pay in some way for the rest of their lives and it is the law of attraction that they do pay. Live by the sword die by the sword.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    jamo Reply:

    @Cherryblossom, I agree that “The Secret” teachings have caused many people to fall into deep depressions and maybe suicide. To try to be happy and only focus on positive things “in every moment” can be extremely oppressive over time and they blame themselves then it doesn’t work — which it doesn’t.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    jamo Reply:

    @jamo, *”when” it doesn’t work

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Yakaru Reply:

    @David Brown Eyes,

    Maybe more accurate than you think. I believe the earlier event also involved stolen native ritual techniques, albeit in less recognizable form. in any case, I am happy to read your sentiments.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Pathfinder Reply:

    @David Brown Eyes, Your words have truth to them. Let them stand.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Bethann and Omikse. That’s some frucked up shite right there.And how about the euphemistic ” guilty of a lesser charge.” I’m guessing that all the letter’s his lawyers receive, counting the one sent by this ‘Karen Or Ditz’ will be ummmm ONE!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @machineageart,…this Karen Ortiz person seems to at least be a real person, complete with her own facebook page, listing Tennessee as ‘home’. She has listed Ray as her ‘friend’. Still, it shows how low his supporters will go.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Mario said:

    Friends or no friends…they can say whatever they want. When Darrow and the jury finally get the chance to drop the hammer, especially after all he knows…I’m betting Death Ray will get a nice stiff sentence in the Arizona Penal system.

    God Bless America!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +14

    [Reply]

    katiecoolady Reply:

    @Mario,

    Just a hunch but I don’t think Darrow is going to be that generous to JAR with the sentence.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Truth Reply:

    @Mario,

    DeathRay will definitely get something “stiff” from the “penal” system.

    Thumb up Thumb down -2

    [Reply]

  • PT said:

    James Ray is paying for the pathetically greedy GET RICH QUICK mentality that was endorsed and promoted by THE SECRET.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • White Rabbit said:

    When the verdict was given for Kirby Brown and the jury declared “not guilty” for manslaughter, James did not look at Li, nor does it look like he looked at Kelly. It looks like his eyes slid over to the “bruenette asian”.

    Watch the slo mo version at the end. I wonder if she likes a man in an orange uniform.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Kathryn NicDhàna said:

    Thank you, Droid et al, for your insightful, brilliant, and scathingly wonderful, we’re-laughing-to-keep-ourselves-sane-in-the-face-of-abject-horror humour. We’ve had a good crew covering this trial, and I appreciate you all very much.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

  • Linda Em said:

    1964(c) of the RICO Act, which allows civil claims to be brought by any person injured in their business or property by reason of a RICO violation has permitted many people and businesses to file claims under this Federal Law. It is not just for catching the Big Guys anymore. Can’t those who were ripped off by him file claims under RICO and at least get his assets frozen? He walked off with a lot of money besides what he took from the victims and their families at the “heat endurance event.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @Linda Em,

    Ray had both opportunity and help in hiding his money after the deaths in the sweat lodge.

    I don’t remember if it was part of the testimony in the case or an article I read, but there was forensic accountant assigned to look into Ray’s finances and he stated, “there were discrepancy’s.”

    And who took the first bite of monies? Why the attorney’s who were held on retainer … 1-5 million?

    There are suits against Angel Valley Retreat, and they do have insurance. I believe the Hamilton’s are suing Ray as well. Although I think Amyra and Michael should have drawn a stronger line with Ray and, “his sweat lodges,” they did warn him. Ray was a less agressive for two years only to amp up the heat again.

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    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    Hoping …

    CNN Live has the James Arthur Ray Trial, Aggravating Factor’s on it’s Future events.

    June 28th, Tuesday, AM.

    http://live.cnn.com/future/

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Bethann,

    And I believe those are EST times given ;)

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Bethann,

    At least, from what I see, it says 12:15 PM, so I’m seeing that as EST time (or New York City time). Whatever you see may be different, according to your computer, or settings, or whatever.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    I just read on Connie Joy’s wall that cnn removed all their equipment from the courtroom, so there will be no more coverage for the AC arguments.(SURPRISE,SURPRISE). I really would have liked to see manic MEGAN up close and personal. I think she will be a pivotal witness for the pros. Thanks CNN. Nothing like leaving us hanging!!!

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    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    Bonnie and Machineageart …

    I’m on the west coast, always thinking am with this trial :) CNN has disappointed us before. They said they would no longer put the trial on live or report it on IS. This was prior to Li’s vacation. CNN did stop for approximately one week and began to broadcast again during closing arguments.

    I think there is a good possibility it will be broadcast. The conviction garnered national headlines, (Reuter’s, NY Times, LA Times, AP).

    I’m posting the CNN link on as many sites as I can and hope to keep the interest strong for this case.

    I think we agree the victim’s, and their families, need as many voices as possible :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Bethann,

    I think you misunderstood my reason for posting – as of my first post, I thought that “everyone” might see that it started at 12:15 PM (as I was seeing) and I only posted that so that no one on the west coast would miss it. However, after posting, I realized that it might be only what *I* was seeing (and others on the east coast), thus, my second post. :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    James Reply:

    @Bethann, This news also made the media in Australia, because there were a lot of people affected by that guy from the secret there also. It looks like David Schirmer has been getting exactly what he asked for too so these guys really dont understand the LOA at all. Its the arrogant type who fall victim to stupidity.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    KTM Reply:

    @James, Schirmer is having trouble believing that the few people who make comments on his useless blubber have no money left to give him and they really are the limit of his followers. Everyone is standing up for what they believe in and have walked from the pathetic parasites who have taken so much from so many for so long. Many of us are looking forward to seeing justice served today. Then it will be, next…….

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    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    I sure hope your right Bethann. I think this is a very intriguing conclusion to this trial. Will the defense continue their condescending,arrogant drilling of the witness’? That would probably seem insulting to a jury that has already reached their verdict…. We can only hope.

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    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    I’m sorry Bonnie, sometimes I skim posts quickly. My fault, instead of using PST I used am.

    machineageart, I wonder if Connie Joy’s post wasn’t an older one when CNN announced they would not be covering the trial. There have been several who post here, and at the old IS boards, who would email CNN and complain about the lack of coverage. It might have created enough impetus for CNN to start again.

    I think we have powerful testimony ahead by the prosecution.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    In an interview, Ray answered about personal responsibility, “I fully know, for me, that there is no blame. Every single thing is your responsibility … and nothing is your fault. Because every single thing that comes to you is gift … a lesson.”

    I hope Ray is ready to unwrap his ‘gift’, and thereby learn a few lessons that seem to be long overdue. Ray, you are not that special to be without blame, responsibility or fault. No one, including you, is perfect.

    Lesson #1. Blame is the act of censuring, holding responsible, making negative statements about an individual or group that their action or actions are socially or morally irresponsible, the opposite of praise.

    Lesson #2 Responsibility…moral, legal, or mental accountability

    Lesson #3 Fault…A character weakness, mistake, an error, culpability

    Lesson #4 some useful knowledge or sense that results from direct experience

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • edub said:

    i have replayed this a number of times, imagining that the 2nd kirby count guilty pronouncement is also from my fist in his gut :: works for me :: this @$$hat is ready to be put away, kirbs, sorry you ever heard of that schmuck

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +10

    [Reply]

  • jamo said:

    I bet it is really sinking in to death ray right about. Or perhaps he is still in denial and thinks he will only get probation. His actions and lack thereof were so blatantly heinous that I expect the max. There is a lot of pent-up anger toward him — he ignored SO MANY signs that would have triggered the average person into immediate life-saving measures. That pisses people off and I am sure it pissed the jury and judge off.

    On top of that the defense team dragged the trial out massively by talking about the cost of the camera that took the rat poison pictures, explaining the history of every school Dr paul attended etc. If I was a juror that would have pissed me off, especially since I wasn’t buying any of it, as the jury didn’t. Add to that the plethora of objections and motions and it is enough to piss off any reasonable person.

    James Ray is not a sympathetic character imo. He is the kind of guy that when you see through his bullshit, you want to screw him because he screwed you. His commission of homicide was a result an enormously gigantic ego and I think that is obvious to the jury and judge. I expect the book to be thrown at him. He certainly deserves it as much as any negligent homicide perp inmho.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

  • billie said:

    I think you’re right, Jamo, that he won’t get an ultra-light sentence. Still, after knowing these types, I would bet he is again in massive denial. That’s how they are–reality soaks into their soul for a minute or two, than whoosh, they believe they’re misaligned, victimised, and enormously entitled. And outside of communities like this many people don’t get it. I always think it’s because they haven’t had a personal gut swiping from the JAR type, so they don’t know how it goes. The narcissist gets a high from pity and sympathy from others—it’s another attention fix that they believe refects their specialness. JAR will refashion himself as a Legendary Martyr, garnering special lessons for his followers.
    Just watch.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @billie, Precisely. When all else fails, the Martyr shtick works very well indeed.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @billie, @Cosmic Connie

    Absolutely! How can anyone forget that in his “free” workshop just days after the sweat lodge deaths, he was crying supposedly real tears onstage and sobbing, “this is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me”! — to “ME”!!! — three people had just died in his care, and all he could think about was “this is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me”.

    I can think of a few worst things that I would like to have happen to Mr Narcissist, but hopefully karma will do worse than anything I can dream.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

  • Wtf said:

    LOOK AT #16 THIS MAN SHOULD BE PUT IN A CELL NEXT TO RAY

    SCUM

    From: Lanny Morton
    Date: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 1:40 PM
    Subject: [Affiliates] 1st TOP 25 based on sales update

    Conversion numbers are really really good. If you are new to a Six Minutes launch then I want to give you a little crystal ball so you can play around with the numbers. When you are dealing with a $1 trial, it can be decieving and a little underwhelming..

    Some rough calculations I did this morning from last years launch were that the average value for each $1 trial was roughly worth $300 in customer value. Keep in mind, this was with a website that had no upsells inside of it like the 3.0 site has, was far inferior to the new site and no amazing follow up retention stuff like we are doing now. So, you can do the math that if you have 30 sales, you have probably made $4500 in future commissions. (Probably much more, it’s a conservative guess) 100 sales probably will end up being $15,000. Our top affiliate, I estimate has already banked over $88,000 in the first two days in future commissions.

    We are going to be aggressively getting your leads to the sales page from here on out, however, I can see a definate trend in the numbers that the people that are getting traffic to the 4th video are doing the best. So, I would highly recommend sending out again.

    Here are the top 25 based on sales from the first two days.

    1. Mind Movies

    2. Blair Gorman

    3. Mind Valley

    4. Tapping Solution

    5. Bill Harris

    6. Brian Proctor

    7. Vic Johnson

    8. Vick Strizheus

    9. Frank Mangano

    10. Sonia Ricotti

    11. Brian Tracy

    12. Ed Rush

    13. Brad Codd

    14. Alvin Huang

    15. Robert Anthony

    16. James Ray

    17. Rich German

    18. Greg Habstritt

    19. John Assaraf

    20. Magnus Huckvale

    21. Doug Westmoreland

    22. Jonathan Hunsaker

    23. Chris Attwood

    24. Bob Doyle

    25. Dan Bainbridge

    Top 10 is totally up for grabs as only 40 sales differentiate #25 from #10.

    As a reminder, Top 10 get tickets to Celebrity Fight Night. (Opt in bonuses are seperate from this top 10 prize and will be used to upgrade or get additional tickets to the event)

    #1 gets access to our $140,000 demographic software platform which could be worth literally millions to their business.

    #1-3 Access to top 1-3 Matermind

    #4-7 Access to top 4-10 Mastermind

    #11-20 Access to top 11-20 Mastermind

    Thanks for everything

    Lanny

    P.S. I am not making income claims.. At this moment, we have 8100 affiliates, Most of whch are doing very little and getting no results. 231 Different affiliates have made atleast 1 sale.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Randall Reply:

    @Wtf, So he’s still hustling in the midst of all this. Maybe he’ll win an affiliate prize. If he’s lucky, it will be soap on a rope.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @Randall,
    I’ll vote for that.
    Nothing so satisfying as some quid pro quo retribution.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    jamo Reply:

    @Randall, LOL

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • kalista7 said:

    Det. Diskin needs emails from ex-JR Peeps, asap!! From Sara Galle Oldre on FB: “I just received this note from my cousin: just talked to Wendy Diskin — Det Diskin’s mother. He wants emails from ex-JR peeps, explaining how they’ve been hurt by James Ray. It does not have to specifically pertain to the 09 sweatlodge. JR’s goonies are soliciting letters from people telling how much JR’s helped them for the defense to use at the aggravated hearings… Team Sheila wants to have their own stack of emails to fight back.

    Do you have contact with any ex-JR peeps who would be willing to send emails? They can be sent to Sheila at ycao@co.yavapai.az.us.” From Sara Oldre

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    sebel Reply:

    @kalista7, ooooooh i should imagine there would be a lot of those.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @kalista7, What about Connie Joy’s book? Tragedy in Sedona

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Yakaru Reply:

    @Anna,

    I understand they were given copies & read it when it came out. Also in one of the police interviews Diskin let it slip that he didn’t bother watching The Secret, but he had been reading The Salty Droid!

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    wondering why Reply:

    @Yakaru, Really..That is awesome that he has been reading the Droid!!!

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @Anna, On Connie’s FB page, she said Sheila’s team has her book and according to the detective, it has post-it’s on many pages. Yay!

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    I can’t believe the defenseless team is actually going to try to change the outcome by providing letters from people who were helped by JAR — what the hell difference does it make? — it’s the ones he HARMED, i.e. KILLED that this trial and outcome is about! So what if some people got some benefit from his teachings — yes, there were probably some good stuff in his teachings, as most self help and self development does (NONE of which he actually followed and lived by himself), but none of it was original, it was all ripped off from others and old books and programs — they could have learned it from any number of other sources besides Death Ray — but it just happened that they came upon it from “him” first and thus thought it was his original teachings. The only original thing he ever came up with was the Death Lodge itself.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    jellybelly Reply:

    @Bonnie, Yes you only have to go to seminars from two people on the secret and you can tell they are all copying one anothers shit. They all took one look at the $’s and started dreaming, got greedy and in the end they had told themselves how wonderful they think they are and even believed their own shit.

    THAT my friend is where the issues started.

    Nothing can change the outcome, the secret and every greedy asshole in it (not anyone who is honest, we dont hear about them do we?????) was doomed from the start. It just nice seeing them get payback for being such arrogant dishonest assholes.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Bonnie, I completely agree with you. I remember being told that most of Hitler’s leadership for Germany was positive and came about at a time when it was sorely needed, but it did not excuse his crimes against humanity once he gained power. Even the worst criminal has some good in them. Ann Rule in “The Stranger Beside Me” talks about the Ted Bundy she knew from the suicide prevention hot line they both worked on and that he saved many lives. But it does not excuse the ones he took away.

    So let it be with JAR. Just because he cut and pasted positive messages to people does not excuse his criminal negligence that resulted in the loss of three lives (four, counting Colleen). We don’t develop a bank account that says we can get off for one offense based on how many good things we’ve done before. The only thing we can do is work off our sentence by what we do afterward. And he still has not even apologized in any compassionate way to anyone.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Pathfinder Reply:

    @kalista7, I have sent Sheila Polk a letter.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @Pathfinder, Thanks so much. If I knew him, I would have sent a letter too.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    @luckygalnj Reply:

    @kalista7, I sent my letter too.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • SyndicateExposed said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -20

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @SyndicateExposed,…” Fuck you sheeple ”

    Really?…it must be so lonely for you, being that perfect…just you and Death Ray.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    I sent an inquiry email to CNN yesterday on the broadcast of the trial. I received a reply from Natalie, CNN does plan live coverage beginning tomorrow morning, 9:15 PST.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    2Tired2 Reply:

    @Bethann,

    Thanx, you lucky Kiddo, you…! For receiving a reply from CNN (gawd knows, I’ve tried)

    Great article from Indian Nation paper re: reaction to JR sentencing

    http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/06/cnn-reports-on-indian-countrys-reactions-to-james-arthur-rays-verdict/

    Yes – indeedy ~ sentencing hearing should be on-stream tomorrow ~ sling him under the bus (no ~ that’d be too nice ~ just sling JR out for a permanent vision quest

    I do wonder what kinda “show” the mindless supporters of JR will be lurking around Camp Verde Courthouse tomorrow…

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Yeaa! Great news Bethann. I guess we all know how absolutely critical it is for the ‘aggravating circumstances’ charges to go through. I have complete and total faith that Sheila Polk will deliver the ‘coup de gras’ to JAR, so he receives the harmonically maximum sentence he so richly deserves.Just think; no more organophosphates,no more ants, no more ‘wine’ from Louis Li(maybe) no more ‘frothing spewtle’ from Do,no more ‘cave man lawyer tactics’ from Kelly. After all the horseshit the defense threw out trying to obstruct the truth in this trial,Ms.Polk will finally be able to make her point in no uncertain terms. Somehow it reminds me of the ALI-FORMAN fight when Forman beat on ALI for eight rounds only to wear himself out, and ALI pulled Forman close and said “NOW, IT”S MY TURN”.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +9

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @machineageart, Agreed! I love your post

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Letter from Karen OR-DITZ to followers of James Ray and the secret; EEOH MY GAD! We’re so totally glad and stuff that James was found NOT GUILTY of this lak totally stupid charge against him.But they did stick him with some annoying little lesser charge and stuff…Apparently Some stupid people got like organophosphates or somthin in their granola and like got sick totally barfed or somethin and now their like blamin James!OMG! I’m sue shure. Gag me totally! Soooooo,it would be lak so bithcin if you would like send a note to his super righteous layers saying how James lak totally made your life almost bearable and stuff and how he totally helped lak at least ten million other people that you know personally and stuff.This would soooo help James to get away with everything and junk…Fer sure. P.S. If you already like hate his fucking guts and stuff, just like don’t say nothin, OK Buy….

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    [Reply]

    John B. Reply:

    @machineageart,

    I am so happy to see our educational system in this country is working so well that we can view such well written and eloquent posts like the one by Karen that you provided for us, machine. I think we can all safely assume that, once Karen has finished doing her good works in collecting these letters, she will continue planning the wedding of her sister Mary Jo Jim Bob to her uncle Bubba Joe Jim Bob on the Jerry Springer Show. Personally, I am looking forward to being in the audience, I understand Karen makes some of the best Road Kill Souffle in the Ozarks.

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    [Reply]

  • kalista7 said:

    As far as I know, these are the witnesses for tomorrow:
    Virginia Brown (Kirby’s Mom), Ross Diskin (lead detective), Megan Fredrickson (JAR’s operations mgr, next in command), Amayra & Michael Hamilton (Angel Valley owners), Alyssa Gillepsie (wife of James shore and mother of his 3 young children, Jane Gripp –Shore (James Shore’s Mom), Melinda Martin (X-JRI employee who testified), & Andrea Puckett (Liz’s daughter).

    I know this can’t be easy for them. Sending prayers.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    jellybelly Reply:

    @kalista7, Not easy but very very important.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Hello all. There is a thread on Connie Joy’s sight saying Megan Fredrickson is not cooperating? Not going to testify? And “can’t be found”….Does anyone know the scoop on her?

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @machineageart,

    Could you provide a link, please? The only thing I can find is her Tragedy In Sedona site, and I don’t see anything there?

    Thanks! :)

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    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @Bonnie,

    Go to that site, and click on the “Blog” link.

    Apparently Megan and Josh have disappeared? The prosecutors have spoken to their lawyer, but not to them.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Hippo,

    Thanks Hippo! I guess I misunderstood Machineageart’s post and thought it was something that Connie Joy herself had written — I did see that blog, but nothing started by Connie so I didn’t look further into the comments.

    And I’m not so sure I want to believe just one commenter’s word on that — when I was trying to find the site, I did a google search for everything I could think of that would bring the story up, but found nothing — so whether or not Megan is “missing” or not, I guess we shall soon see — but I would think that if she were, that it would be plastered all over the internet, and like I said, I found nothing. And wasn’t this list just recently put together? Maybe the commenter took their staying out of the public eye, e.g. staying inside their home or other shelter and not seen by anyone to mean that they were missing. I guess we shall see. But if it was me, I would be wanting to spill the beans on James Arthur Ray and Company, no matter what the consequences were to me and if it implicated me in being charged or not. Of course, if it were me, I would have not been involved in all the abusiveness and humility and deceit and complete disregard for human dignity and life and the accompanying emotional, spiritual, physical and financial torture and ruins of so many loyal followers — for ANY amount of money. And if nothing else, I would have gotten out when Colleen committed suicide in his care the few short months before, if I was so blind and didn’t see anything clearly before that.

    Praying hard for justice here.

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    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    Trial coverage on CNN’s site was removed within the last few minutes. I had hopes, and will keep checking. I’ll post if the trial is broadcast.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Bethann,

    Grrrrrrr…….

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Anne Reply:

    @Bethann,

    Evidently, keeping the camera on the empty room during the lunch break of the FDA hearing is much more important to CNN.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @Bethann, Dear God they suck.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Bethann

    Can you write that gal Natalie back again and see what happened?

    And thanks!

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @Bonnie,

    I just sent an email to Natalie asking why CNN chose to pull coverage at the last minute.

    I believe it was 12-15 hours before I received the last reply.

    There was a small group of us on the IS boards who sent CNN emails stating they promised us coverage and we were unhappy they stopped. Not the first time unfortunately.

    Natalie’s email address:

    VCM@CNN.com

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    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    so,…is it typical Chicken-Noodle-News,…or is it something else? Maybe Ray didn’t show up, or maybe Li is objecting to Miss Polks new shoes. Did CNN spray the room with organophosphates or did Ted do it?…GRRRRRRR!!!!!!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Omikse,

    Ted didn’t do it — The Devil did it!

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bonnie,…very frustrating…we, everyone, needs to see this so there is no doubt as to how far the consequences of Rays’ actions and inactions have gone, and continue to go.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Omikse,

    Amen, Omikse! And especially so that all of his “still” brainwashed followers can see it too — not that they would believe the truth. But we can always hope — and if it saves just one lost soul…..

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

  • Linda Em said:

    so who do we get onto about this cnn lack of responsibility to the public again?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Linda Em,…there could be many reasons for the ‘delay’, if that is what this is…I can’t believe they are showing “Whitey” going to court and 3 black SUVs…( impressive, no?), or the empty hearing rooms,(wait, one guy in a red shirt is at the hearing now seated in the back row)…maybe something has delayed the penalty phase…????…then again, maybe CNN’s hampster wheel broke down…

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Omikse, the Whitey Bulgar (sp?) hearing is to determine if he needs the public taxpayers to pay for his defense. Why can’t they just use the damn money they found in his apartment? Why should we care if we are getting screwed again by another rich criminal?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Linda Em,…I could think of much better things to spend that money on….just like the trial in Florida, the State pays to take her to court, and then pays for her defense…so, they pay twice…it’s just how the justice system works…rich get richer…etc.

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    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Well LaVaughn you got that right. Thanks CNN. Fascinating live coverage on U S India partnership briefing and FDA drug hearing. I can’t decide which one not to watch…..

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @machineageart, I just learned from someone in AZ that we’re delayed because the jury won’t be in until 10:30am PT. So maybe CNN doesn’t suck as completely as we thought. We’ll see in about a half an hour.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @LaVaughn,

    Like I said, praying for justice here ;)

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @LaVaughn,

    Thank you. I’ll keep checking. What an odd way to run a business, you don’t provide an update on your site as to delays.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @LaVaughn, any updates on whether this is going to happen? is there an e mail address we can all write them at asap? t hanks.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @Linda Em, @Bethann Only contact info I know of is the form on the site and I do send them tweets. They are terrible about responding.

    They’re not a “business.” They’re not journalists, either. They’re a huge corporation and the don’t give a fuck about the little people. They care about numbers and ad dollars. Period.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    I am so disappointed. CNN left the banner up for four days on future events, cancels at 9:30am PST, today!

    And, after I made the effort to contact them, I’m good to go for a boycott.

    Connie Joy did mention on her FB page, the audio/visual equipment had been removed Friday, but CNN pulled coverage prior to Li’s two week vacation, then broadcast the closing arguments. Phooey, I had hopes.

    Thank you for posting the contact information for the Yavapai Court. I did send an email to Ms Polk yesterday regarding my experience with JAR, The Secret and Beckwith.

    I know the prosection team will continue to shine, just sorry we are all missing it.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • Linda Em said:

    I wonder if he called in sick or “not sane” like Casey Anthony tried to do?

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    OK LaVaughn. There is still hope. We’ll just put them on ‘SUCK ALERT’ until we know for sure….

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    [Reply]

  • Mario said:

    I would like to see Polk have Megan Fredrickson charged with contempt of court and obstruction of justice. That bitch needs to sit her ass in jail and think about her complicit wrong doings.

    Just sayin…

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Mario,…AMEN to that!!!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    wondering why Reply:

    @Mario, Yes..Wow does she think she is above the law or what?

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    [Reply]

  • Bonnie said:

    I just hope that whether we see it or not, that Miss Polk can convince the jury indirectly that they made a mistake and there should have been at least one manslaughter charge, if not two, so that they give him the maximum sentence they possibly can. I mean, what does, “she’s not moving, she’s not breathing, I can’t get her to respond” mean exactly? If he had stopped the ceremony then, he might have been able to save all three lives — but he didn’t — so he should have at least been charged with Kirby Brown’s murder as manslaughter since he knew her condition and didn’t act. And if not hers, then James Shore’s and Liz Neuman’s, since their lives would have surely been saved if he had stopped the ceremony, even if it was already too late for Kirby.

    I didn’t like this guy from when I first saw him on The Secret. That quick flash of a phoney smile, those cold icy piercing eyes. You would think that as he got more famous and richer, the smile would become more real, the eyes more loving and caring. But they didn’t. Right up until the end. The same quick phony meaningless smile. The same cold piercing empty eyes. Because there was nothing… inside… ever…

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bonnie,…on Connie Joy’s FB page…”Testimony delayed due to legal arguments among the lawyers. Tweets are saying that someone didn’t show up? Nancy said: “the word thru her atty is that she wont be cooperating.” Who are they referring to? Megan maybe?? “

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Omikse,

    Ah, maybe she’ll cooperate with the prison guards.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Bonnie, @Omikse @wondering why

    That was why I asked why they intended to have Megan there for the aggravation part of the sentencing hearing. I asked if she was a “plant” meaning put there by the other side to make him sound less guilty. Even looking at what she and her husband said in the aftermath of all of this, they were walking such a thin line, like they didn’t want to say anything nasty about him. But if Megan refuses to come up, I am sure there are many other people who can verify the victim impact of this. They don’t need the Fredericksons to say nothing. I also think if his attorneys are delaying the trial, Judge Darrow should say, fine, but you will have to put him in custody now. I understand he doesn’t want to make any mistakes, especially this late in the game, but geez…stop letting the DT get away with all this. Put Belvin Perry in there for one day and this will be over and done with!!!!

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    wondering why Reply:

    @Linda Em, That is what I said too!! Put that kickass Judge Perry in there and we would have seen a much different trial and verdict!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @wondering why, So I heard that Darrow & Kelly have history – is that not a conflict of interest???

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Bonnie, @Omikse @wondering why

    That was why I asked why they intended to have Megan there for the aggravation part of the sentencing hearing. I asked if she was a “plant” meaning put there by the other side to make him sound less guilty. Even looking at what she and her husband said in the aftermath of all of this, they were walking such a thin line, like they didn’t want to say anything nasty about him. But if Megan refuses to come up, I am sure there are many other people who can verify the victim impact of this. They don’t need the Fredericksons to say “nothing” anyway. I also think if his attorneys are delaying the trial, Judge Darrow should say, fine, but you will have to put him in custody now. I understand he doesn’t want to make any mistakes, especially this late in the game, but geez…stop letting the DT get away with all this. Put Belvin Perry in there for one day and this will be over and done with!!!!

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    [Reply]

    Mario Reply:

    @Bonnie,

    You are absolutely right Bonnie. That SOB should have definitely been convicted on the manslaughter charge for Kirby. I think Death Bastard was well aware of that, which is why he showed so much relief when he heard “not guilty” on that first charge.

    The jury dropped the ball on that one. I guess unanimous was too much for them as a group. I think they will redeem themselves by voting for the max sentence now.

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    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    ‎@DatelineApril April Santiago – tweeted:
    Not sure if @CNNLive will be streaming #jamesray anymore since they are not doing pool coverage anymore. KPNX has taken over as pool.

    I have to wonder of anyone knows what is going on…CNN, no CNN…tweets also say no “financial harm not to be argued by the State” only testimony to “emotional harm”

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    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Omikse;…tweets also say no “financial harm not to be argued by the State” only testimony to “emotional harm” Prosecution still wearing handcuffs..SOS

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    there may be video of tonight at ..www.azfamily.com I don’t have a time, but it will be better than nothing.

    Shame on CNN for an erroneous, non-informative, untruthful email sent to Bethann over the weekend.

    Bethann said:
    I sent an inquiry email to CNN yesterday on the broadcast of the trial. I received a reply from Natalie, CNN does plan live coverage beginning tomorrow morning, 9:15 PST.

    Shame on Chicken-Noodle-News…you really have nothing to crow about whatsoever!

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @Omikse,

    Thank you. In my email to CNN I mentioned several of us link to various sites and notify those of interest when the trial will be streaming, and we do appreciate up to date information.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @Bethann, Did you mention that they SUUUUUUUCCCCKKKKK??!!!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @LaVaughn,

    My one day of the week to be polite :) I’ll leave it to someone else to inform them the audio/visual crew said they were pulling their equipment last Friday, per Connie Joy.

    Are we at mistrial attempt number 8?

    All this money on attorney fees, and their boy will still sit in prison, not to mention the negative press.

    Good move for the public, poor decision on the part of counsel.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    the defense has yet another mistrial argument…u-n-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e…

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Omikse,

    So if they did win a mistrial motion, would the whole thing start over again from the beginning? (sorry, I know nothing about the law or trials)

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bonnie,…”if” is a very big 2 letter word, kind of like if pigs could fly we would all have cast-iron umbrellas. I think it’s Motion for Mistrial #7 or #8 by now, with 1 acquittal thrown in for good measure…when your defense was nil at the very start, you really have nowhere to go but down into the slime with your client. I don’t think anything will come of this maneuver either, just “busy work” at the defense table, after all, they don’t want to just sit there like bumps on a log. Li whines, Do sashays and Kelly believes he is The Intimidator…or as I had begun to call them, Larry, Moe and Curly( Shemp is the defendant )

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @Omikse, Yes, and don’t forget, cha ching. Every time they file one of these mistrials it means more $$ in the hands of the defense. I sure would like to know how much per pop? Also, it’s a great stall technique which Darrow seems to keep putting up with

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Anna,…yes, LOL, I had forgotten the “cash-o-matic” defense.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Jean D Reply:

    @Omikse, The defense team might end up with the “deed to the ranch” aka a lien on Ray’s house. Depends on how much his investors can keep contributing.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    sentinel Reply:

    @Anna, The defense team surely know JR is not avoiding time out so the best thing they can do is go for the ranch and hope no-one from the other team get anything. First in best dressed so to speak.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Omikse,

    I don’t think you answered my question! LOL

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bonnie,…if the mistrial motion were to go through, it would be either with or without prejudice.

    When a court case is dismissed, or a court order is issued without prejudice, it means that a new case may be brought or a new order issued on the same basis as the dismissed case or the original order.

    With prejudice, a court case so dismissed bars the possibility of bringing a new case on the same basis as the dismissed case.

    If a person is brought to trial where they are charged with a particular crime and is convicted of a lesser offense, the conviction for a lesser offense is an acquittal of any higher-level offense (for example, a conviction for second-degree murder is an acquittal of first-degree murder). If the conviction is later overturned, the maximum the defendant can be retried for is the crime to which they were convicted; any higher charge is acquitted and thus is with prejudice.

    This would be up to the judge to decide, with or without prejudice.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Omikse,

    Thanks Omikse! I’m going to have to read that a few more times before I understand what you said — if I ever do! LOL

    But thanks! :)

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bonnie…there are some really helpful “legal-ease” sites on the web…once they explain it in English, it’s not so bad…I think most of us here, once this is over, will have many hours in the hallowed halls of this, our alma mater, Salty Law School, and some of us may get a Diploma Honorary Merit, complete with an embossed robot with ribbon in the lower right-hand corner.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

  • nancy said:

    April Santiago has some new tweets: Sheila Polk made her opening presentation and Tom Kelly is doing his. Posecution to present 3 witnesses proving harm to the victim’s families.

    http://twitter.com/#!/DatelineApril

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Anna said:

    Just rec’d this tweet:

    Tom Kelly makes statement to jury; says he is extremely disappointed by jury’s guilty verdict, that decision was made in 5 hours. Guess he thinks the jury feels sorry for him and his client -

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Anna,

    I think Creepy Kelly should be damn glad they didn’t take longer! — I’m sure James Ray would have been found guilty of the higher charges if they’d taken more time to think about it!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • nancy said:

    Liz Newman’s daughter testifying. Tom Kelly was “disappointed” by the jury’s guilty verdict and that they only took 5 hours to reach it.

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    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    Poor Tom Kelly. One sorry SOB. I hope to God he is re-disappointed after the aggravating circumstances verdict is in!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @machineageart, You know, he’s always reminded me of a wife-beater type guy

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Anna,

    Oh man, you’ve got that right! And he’s so creepy, I’m surprised he can get a woman in the first place! (if he has one)

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    machineageart Reply:

    @Anna, Yes,He seemed to be misogynistic towards every female witness. The men he always tried to suck up to. Like he was one of the good old boys. He’s a capital asshole….

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Bethann said:

    The defense did not have a case, and it’s only strategy was to make attempts to appeal to the emotion of the juror’s. (Prosecutorial information was always prejudicial, they screamed).

    Tom Kelly was passive/agressive and whiny throughout the trial. Do pranced through the courtroom pretending she could influence through intellectualism, and Li was a drone, tire the jury, they’ll lose sight of the evidence and the goal.

    It didn’t work …

    Ray did not treat anyone who came into his presence with dignity, respect and acknowledgement. Ray has his equals in his defense team.

    I’d recommend sensitvity training but on this group it would be a complete fail.

    And to Liz Neuman’s daughter … how horrible to be searching on the net for information on your mother … how devastating not to be called, not to have someone who would offer to be with you during this time.

    Unconscionable

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @Bethann,…and we are suppose to believe that Ray is a “self-help” guru, who, according to some of his misguided followers, he has changed their lives for the better. Ray is a wonderful person, not guilty of what he has been accused and convicted of.

    Ray was back at home in California, eating, drinking and stating that that day in October was the worst day in his life. All the while, Liz Neuman lay unidentified, alone, in a strange hospital, quietly dying. Words can not even begin to convey that horror appropriately.

    Words fail at a time like this. I am so very sorry for the tragedy and appalled at the callousness shown by Ray and those who could have, for once, made a difference but chose not to.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @Omikse,

    I agree, there is point where words fail. Alyssa Gillespie is currently on the stand speaking of her husband, best friend, good dad, James Shore. The man, the real man, who stood up, rushed forth, did not give a second thought to helping another … gone.

    Where is the humility, the appreciation of the lives of others, a simple caring for humanity.

    It doesn’t exist with this defendent, it’s always and only about him.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • machineageart said:

    I just hope the jury remembers Tom Kelly’s despicable, arrogant patronizing of them for their verdict. Like their number one top priority as jurors is to ‘Not’ disappoint TomTerrificYea Also find it amazing that JAR is not testifying. Not a word. Not a syllable.NO-THING. He just sits there with that ‘stoned on horse tranquilizer’ look, like he’s thinking “I don’t give a fuck about any of this shit”. I mean it’s his own stupid ass on the line here. I guess he’s just not very adept at being human……

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Bethann Reply:

    @machineageart,

    I don’t think lack of remorse will play well with Judge Darrow. He’s cooked his own goose.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    machineageart Reply:

    @Bethann, I agree 100% There is no way his demeanor will not effect Judge Darrow’s sentencing…

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @machineageart, @Bethann

    I’ve often wondered what JAR and the defenseless team have been looking at on the computer during the proceedings — maybe they’re reading The Droid comments, or some other tweets? — hopefully, they’re not getting any good hints out of this — oh well, too little too late, if they are, hopefully.

    And yeah, I’d like to see that ugly motionless mug while all this very sad and heartbreaking testimony is being given — just to assure myself that I have a reason to hate that SOB as much as I do — not that I need a reason at this stage.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    machineageart Reply:

    @Bonnie, I thought about that too. The only thing they can get from here is the TRUTH. And they can’t use any of that….

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @machineageart,

    I meant that I hope they aren’t getting any ideas for him to show some emotion, or some sort of remorse while hearing the testimony — but like I said, if they are, hopefully, it will be too little too late. And if it did happen, hopefully both the judge and the jury would recognize that at this point, it’s all an act. Narcissists are very good at providing real tears just when they need them — just like any good actors…

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    machineageart Reply:

    @Bonnie, Yea, I see what you mean Bonnie.You would think they know this shit being of the high priced variety, but who knows? Also, doesn’t the judge always ask the defendant if he has anything to say prior to sentencing? I hope we get to hear that response.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @machineageart,

    Whatever that is, if we hear it, it will all be a bunch of bullshit acting — and I hope the judge and jury don’t fall for it. That guy isn’t capable of any real feelings or emotions — and I kinda think none of his family are either because they all sat there stonefaced amd emotionless while all the horrid details were revealed throughout the trial also.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

  • Linda said:

    @Oh, happy day…Ray WILL pay!,

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • Mario said:

    Hey gang, I just came across this report from today…

    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/justice/heartwrenching-testimony-during-ray-sentencing-phase-6-28-2011

    Since CNN has “shit the bed” on coverage, possibly myfoxphoenix.com
    might just get it done?

    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/generic/news/live_video_feed2

    This one’s for you James… no worries it’s free cuz you’re so special. NOT!

    All day long they work so hard
    till the sun’s comin’ down
    workin on the highways and biways
    of Arizona and wearin a frown

    I hear them moanin’ their lives away
    and then you hear somebody say…

    (Oh don’t you know)
    that’s the sound of the men
    working on the chain gang
    (Oh don’t you know)
    that’s the sound of the men
    working on the chain gang

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    [Reply]

  • Truth said:

    Stick a fork in DeathRay, he’s done;

    http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Families-of-sweat-lodge-victims-detail-emotions-1443185.php

    “Gillespie offered the most emotional testimony of the day, her voice breaking as she began her testimony by saying Shore was her husband, partner and best friend of 13 years. While she said she doesn’t believe she’s had a chance to grieve properly, her three children have struggled with separation anxiety, bouts of and thoughts about violence, and Christmas wishes that Santa would bring their father back.

    “They all grew up overnight,” she said. “They no longer had the childhood fantasy that everything was OK. It totally crashed for them.”

    The oldest daughter, 13-year-old Inaya, exhibited the most extreme behavior, she said, asking her mother to kill her so she could join her father.”
    ——

    If they don’t give DeathRay the maximum after this, the justice system has no credibility.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

    sentinel Reply:

    @Truth, James Ray and any other self important guru are the biggest bastards on this earth. They never consider the impact on other people and their children.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Truth ::

    The justice system has credibility?

    I guess I hadn’t noticed.

    [Reply]

  • Anna said:

    Does anyone know how the sentencing works in this case? Does the jury make suggestions as to the number of years Death Ray should spend in the slammer, then Darrow takes their input into consideration?

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Hippo Reply:

    @Anna,

    I think that the jury just listens to the testimony and decides whether or not the aggravating factors apply.

    Then they tell the judge their decision on that issue, then the Judge picks the sentence. The sentence he picks has to fall within the legal guidelines for the crime–anywhere from probation up to about 3 years for each death, plus a little more for the aggravating factors.

    I might be a little off on the numbers, but I think that’s the general idea.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @Hippo, Tk you!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • trudee said:

    June 29, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    First I would like to say, that I am not involved with the sweatlodge participants, or a follower of James Ray. I have been following this trial from the beginning and I have to say, James Ray deserves the verdict of guilty. I feel his apathetic behavior and total disregard for his “Warrior” event was self serving ($$$$$$), and a deceitful scam to gain “control”. I also have been following (but not commenting) the #jamesray twitter and reading Tragedy in Sedona “MY life with James Ray Facebook Blogs. My heart goes out to ALL of these participants and their families. You and your lawyers argue that they had a choice to exit your sweatlodge at any time. I don’t think so. YOU stole that choice from them when you continued to bake them in your oven, while you sat near the door. YOU stole their lives, while you ate dinner after this “event” YOU stole their money, while you arrogantly sat in your defense chair to pay your sleezy lawyers. James Ray, YOU ARE GUILTY.

    I posted this last night on the James Ray site, and they have “Waiting for Modification”, which I suppose means they will not publish. I cut and paste. Infuriates me how they can pick and choose which comments they desire to be read or not read. I just want to say I hope all goes well for the BRAVE families of ALL involved in this horrible crime.

    I

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +8

    [Reply]

  • kalista7 said:

    Email from James Ray asking for help. Evidently, he doesn’t feel he’s done anything wrong and wants to continue with his work. So, any past participants, I think it would be wise for you to send letters about problems in past seminars. You could send them to Ms. Polk.

    ******************************************

    From: On Behalf Of Dr. Tony Alessandra 858-999-2119
    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:06 PM
    To:
    Subject: [CSPlink] Re: More on James Arthur Ray

    I just received this email from James Ray. He needs help from all those who really know him. I’ve volunteered to testify as a character witness in Aug.or Sept. prior to sentencing. ALL your letters will help his case.

    From: James Ray
    Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 8:58 PM
    To: Tony Alessandra (TA@Alessandra.com )
    Subject: help James Ray

    Tony I need as many letters of support as possible talking about the good I’ve done and WHY I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE DOING MY WORK and get probation versus prison. Can you help me? How do they know me, what have I done for them or what have they observed me do, what do they know about my character, work ethic, contribution, WHY SHOULD I BE ALLOWED TO GET BACK AND CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY, ETC.
    You mentioned that many speakers have made supportive comments to you, can you get them to write letters-the more the better. My lawyers want to give them to the judge to help sway his sentence. Have them send via email to nk@jamesray.com . Attachment with a signature is best but if not possible can be in the body of the email.

    Thanks in advance for your help

    James Arthur Ray

    *****************************************************

    Is it just me, or did anyone else think it’s disgusting and odd that Judge Darrow allowed James Ray to just walk out free today, until the mitigation hearing on (the anniversary of Colleen’s death) July 25th??

    @SD: Do you feel the judge has favored the defense?

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Frank Reply:

    Looks like a new bad guy name for the list of killer supporters.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @kalista7, Hmm, does Darrow know about what happened to Colleen, funny the defense keeps saying JAR has to prior record – guess they mean “no documented record” of past wrong doing – everyone who has been hurt by Death Ray in the past, please send letters to Ms. Polk

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @kalista7,

    Looks like Mr Tony Alessandra is the next one that maybe should be investigated by the Droid. At the very least, I know this has and will tarnish his own reputation and lose him a lot of customers and business — after all, publicity is everything. And as everyone knows, who you associate with plays very high up there too.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @Bonnie, Agreed! Here’s info about Tony Alessandra from the National Speakers Association page: http://bureau.espeakers.com/nsas/speaker.php?sid=3322&showreturntoresults=true

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Jean D Reply:

    @kalista7, Lo and behold,Alessandra offices in Carlsbad,CA home of JRI! Is that a place where scammers congregate? WTH? James Twyman,a really strange “spiritual teacher” is also located in Carlsbad. He is very creepy and scary-looking. His wife was murdered but the killers have never been found. http://www.jamestwyman.com/ http://www.nhne.com/specialreports/sremissary1.html

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    As per Nancy on FB>> “The message in question that was sent to professional speakers only received one response for all of them to see, and it was from a speaker in Australia who has no knowledge of the Sedona tragedy. So…silence speaks volumes.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • Omikse said:

    from Connie Joy’s FB page:

    1) Sheila Polk did not make an error with the recording. It was admitted as evidence and the mistrial motion is most likely going to go the way all the others have: nowhere.
    2) James is free on bail because probation is an option and this is pret…ty standard. Defendants who are free on bail and become Convicted felons get to stay free if they have conformed to the conditions of their bail and if prison time is not mandatory.
    3) Judge Darrow, while we may not like it, is not doing anything any different than he has done in any other case. He is extra cautious because he doesn’t want appeal or mistrial. He historically does show bias to the defense, not just to James.
    4) Judge Darrow cannot read any letters or Connie’s book until the trial is OVER. So, sending him anything that can be entered into evidence is counterproductive; send all letters to Sheila and or Diskin.
    5) they have received about 30 letters to date and would like more. We have time. If you haven’t done so yet, and feel strongly that James has harmed you—please write it in a letter and let your voice be heard.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • cmg said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @cmg,

    The decision as to whether or not James Ray will go to prison is well out of James Ray’s hands–thank god.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Anna Reply:

    @cmg, Hahahahahah, hey cmg intuitive what am I thinking now?!?! Or better yet, what is Death Ray thinking now?!? Did you pay someone to become an “intuitive” I’m so impressed, was that a 2 year or a 4 year? – Geeez I thought we were ALL “intuitive” You must be something special, keep posting, you amuse me.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Omikse Reply:

    @cmg…

    “… I am an intuitive. James Ray will not go to prison. Will he end his life, skip bail? Not sure…”

    Okay, intuitive, but not intuitive….covering all bases I guess, but then I don’t claim to be “an intuitive”.

    A quote from Ray:
    “Simplify your communications and only speak when you are certain, centered, and sure.”

    Hey, Ray…move this from theory to practice. Never profess to understand and expound upon that which you have no knowledge of.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @cmg ::

    I like how you said :: “And yes, I am an intuitive …” :: as though that’s what we were all thinking and you were just confirming it for us.

    @cmg is a fucking intuitive :: I KNEW IT!!!

    [Reply]

  • Psy Pauline said:

    I am also an intuitive & totally certain that JAR will go to jail for 7-9 yrs. It has nothing to do with what his ego will allow. It has to do with Karma and what he continues to create.

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @Psy Pauline,

    Does the fact that he is responsible for at least four deaths have anything to do with your amazing ability to predict the future—-at all?

    Or are we totally in woo country here?

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Yakaru Reply:

    @Psy Pauline, & cmg

    Your sense of entitlement is quite stunning really. You’re probably both quite nice people, but your scam is a truly horrid one. I bet everyone who reads this site has their own thoughts about what JAR will get, but out of respect for those impacted by it, and out of common sense, no one blabs. Except you two. And that’s because your special powers entitle you to everyones attention, right?

    Ok, you’ve got my attention. And what you are together predicting is:

    * JAR will, and will not go to prison *

    Thanks guys, it was really worth it. That’s so much better than just waiting for the decision to come down, isn’t it. You are both very special and truly have access to information that no one else has. No wonder you are so impressed with what your subconscious spits up at you. I’m mightily impressed too.

    Of course, at least one of you will go out of business when the verdict comes down. Maybe both. I’ll come back and see on the 25th.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • Linda Em said:

    It’s true many other people in the industry may not touch JR with a ten foot pole BUT check out what Kevin Trudeau has to say. Actually, in the old days Trudeau used to make some sense, but then at some point in time, he went way off the rails (maybe too many diet pills?) and now he goes on about how Ray is getting unfair treatment from the government and the world (boo hoo): http://www.ktradionetwork.com/tag/james-ray/. Later in the broadcast he goes on a racist rant based on information he really knows nothing about. Listen or read it if you can stand it.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Linda Em, LOL. When did True-dough ever really make sense? Was that before his prison term in the early 1990s, or after? At any rate, it’s not surprising that he would make such a bold defense of Death Ray because, as I’ve noted before, even though he’s a part of the selfish-help industry he is also above it. He can say and do just about anything and people will still throw money at him.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Dale Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, LOL…you’re right about Truedough…he never made sense, and his ethics or lack thereof go back to day one. He’s like a Perry Belcher, amplified.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @Cosmic Connie, I don’t know…I think he used to do these paid ads for vitamins or some kind of kitchen appliances (like Ronco?)…can’t remember…but it was a long time ago and he was double the size he is now and I remember being shocked when I saw that he wrote a book and he looked like he had gotten sick from all the weight loss. A much younger friend of mine bought his book and thought he was amazing (but that was a long time ago and now she doesn’t remember him). It was before he got all political and pissed off at anyone who might question his authenticity. He gets really racist about some stuff at the end of this video and is truly an idiot where it comes to history. I just couldn’t believe he is followed by anyone. And he is convinced that the only reason Death Ray is up on charges is because someone is running for office in Yavapai, not because anyone died or got injured or ripped off.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @Linda Em,

    I think, in Trudeau’s career trajectory, we can see what might happen if James Ray gets off too lightly on this.

    A few years in the wilderness, or prison, writing a new book about how persecuted he has been but how that persecution has somehow mysteriously sanctified and confirmed his mission to carry on ‘his work’ and ‘his contributions’ to society.
    (the cynics amongst us will read that as ‘line his own pockets by telling the gullible what they want to hear.’)

    Then its business as usual, with the paranoia ramped up, for your friendly neighborhood sociopath.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @Stoic, My sentiments exactly. There’s still no assurance that JAR will serve prison time at all, but even if he does, that may not stop him from dreaming up new scams. After all, True-dough served prison time and met a new scam partner while they were both locked up. When they got out, they went on to bilk many folks before they were stopped.

    And @LindaEm, I didn’t mean to be dismissive of your points. I will concede that even in recent times KT has occasionally made valid statements about issues such as the undue influence of big pharmacological companies, or the misdeeds of the US government. But he does it all in the service of pushing his own frauducts and flopportunities, or those of his buddies — and, of course, he never misses a chance to paint himself as the misunderstood hero/martyr.

    In his long career, True-dough has pushed everything from memory enhancement techniques to nutritional supplements to devices for protection against electromagnetic fields, but for much of that time, most of his bread and butter seems to have been in the area of “forbidden” information.

    He did indeed lose a great deal of weight, presumably from the controversial hCG diet based on a protocol by a 1950s-era medical doctor, though he added his own proprietary touches (supplements and daily enemas) to the diet. But even his books about topics such as weight loss are basically teasers whose main purpose seems to be upselling rather than sharing usable information.

    Regarding the hCG diet, I think we can assign the lion’s share of credit (or blame) to True-dough for the fact that it’s one of the most popular fad diets these days. Joe “Mr. Fire” Vitale and his bud Pat O’Bryan (who consider themselves friends of True-dough) embraced it in a big way, no pun intended, and supposedly were involved in the development and marketing of a revolutionary new delivery system for hCG. I don’t know whatever became of that because I haven’t really kept up with it, but it does seem to me that they are having challenges keeping the weight off, so the hCG protocol apparently isn’t a quick fix or “permanent” solution.

    Regarding True-dough, I think @Stoic summed it up quite nicely: “business as usual, with the paranoia ramped up.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    Oops… in the last sentence in the comment above I neglected to add “and Death Ray” to “Regarding True-dough…” There’s certainly a possibility that JAR’s career could have a similar trajectory.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

  • cmg said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @cmg said:

    “Something is very wrong here …”

    Yes, and its in your inability to read and research the full story and take note of the answers already provided here by other posters before you contribute your own brand of fear and stupidity to the confusion.

    You want some answers to your questions? Start reading and engage brain.
    It just plain works better than inane guessing and making ignorant predictions.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

  • ChrissyLincoln said:

    Just spent the last 2 hours going through all the past blog entries about JAR. Wow. Thank you Salty for being ON this from the beginning and for allowing us to share this bumpy ride with you and the rest of the regulars on this most awesome blog! If there are any other newbies on here, pull up a chair and read from the beginning… there are far worse ways to spend a Saturday night.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    White Rabbit Reply:

    @ChrissyLincoln,

    Only two hours????

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    ChrissyLincoln Reply:

    @White Rabbit, Had read many of them before just not in chronological order…lol

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • TM said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -6

    [Reply]

    Cosmic Connie Reply:

    @TM, Assuming that you’re not just trying to stir up some s–t I’ll respond, even though I gave your comment a thumbs-down. It occurred to me that you might actually be expressing a genuine opinion, and since I’ve seen the same opinion expressed elsewhere I feel that it needs to be countered in a respectful and (relatively) rational way. If I’m just wasting my time, I suppose there are worse ways to waste it.

    Having communicated with a few former JAR followers, I’d say you’re WAY off base. No doubt some of the people who attended JAR’s events and bought his products were driven by greed and materialism, as is probably the case with many consumers of other New-Wage gurus’ products and services. Of course JAR and his colleagues have always encouraged this; appealing to some people’s greed and self-centeredness is a nearly foolproof way to get them to fork over. (Hence the raging popularity of The Secret, not to mention the hundreds of get-me-rich-quick schemes perpetrated by the IM scoundrels Salty writes about.)

    Other followers of JAR, however, apparently just wanted to make their good lives even better, and I daresay that some wanted to help improve other folks’ lives as well. Following JAR is not the way I would choose and presumably not the way you would choose. But I say this with the perspective of someone who at one time *might* have been a follower, had JAR emerged in the years before I began seriously questioning the validity of New-Wage constructs and started getting a closer look at the “men (and women) behind the curtain(s).” I guess you could say I was lucky enough to become a hard-nosed cynic long before The Secret came out. :-) From the moment he first emerged onto my radar I pegged JAR as a charlatan, but that was largely a default judgment.

    It’s easy for those of us who never were followers of JAR to dismiss his followers as a homogeneous group of self-centered mercenaries, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. It certainly does NOT seem to be the case with the people who died at Sedona and San Diego, nor with numerous other ex-followers whose writings I have read (including those who have contributed to this forum).

    However, I will go so far as to speculate that those who continue to look up to JAR in spite of everything that has come to light about him *are* either “very, very lost,” willfully ignorant, or just as profoundly self-centered as their hero.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Stoic Reply:

    @TM,

    Speaking as another one lucky enough to finally be a hard-nosed cynic, I think one has to question how us hard-nosed cynics got to be that way.

    In my case it was because I started out utterly naive and gullible, believed everything any plausible authoritarian said–because I didn’t know any better and assumed that the plausible authoritarians did know better.
    It was only after being hoodwinked, just as JAR’s followers were hoodwinked, many, many, many painful times by said plausible authoritarians that I began the slow and frustrating process of doing my own thinking, right or wrong.

    And I was concerned with survival, not riches, when I was looking for answers.

    What you have not taken into account is that JAR invested most heavily in the techniques of control of others. He has done nothing else all his life and he is good at what he does–he is plausible to those who haven’t come across this before.

    Knowing how these people operate, and there are plenty more like JAR, is essential if you don’t also want to get caught the way JAR snares his victims.

    So go on, tell me you are immune or just too damn clever to get caught this way. I’ll show you a fool.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

  • Anonymous said:

    One of the jurors in JAR’s trial spoke to a reporter:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20110703/us-sweat-lodge-deaths/

    “A juror who helped convict a self-help author of negligent homicide says the jury gave little credence to the defense theory that toxins could have killed three people in an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony.

    “But Phillip Lepacek says prosecutors didn’t have a slam-dunk case either.
    [...]
    “Lepacek says four jurors were in favor of a conviction on manslaughter charges, but he and seven others did not think the state had proven that Ray was aware of and disregarded the risk that his conduct could lead to death.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Linda Em Reply:

    @, Anonymous Clarify this for me? I think in all this CNN will they/won’t they mess I missed something…was the jury released from its responsibilities and now allowed to talk about their reasoning and thinking on the case, or are they supposed to be quiet until the mitigation and sentence phases are complete?

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    Anne Reply:

    @Linda Em,

    April Santiago was tweeting from the courtroom and she said the jury was discharged.

    http://twitter.com/#!/DatelineApril

    I think it is the judge only who determines if there are mitigating factors and decides on the sentence.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    kalista7 Reply:

    @Linda Em, Yes, the Jury is released. The Judge asked them all to stay and talk to reporters, but evidently only one did.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    Sheila Reply:

    “Lepacek says four jurors were in favor of a conviction on manslaughter charges, but he and seven others did not think the state had proven that Ray was aware of and disregarded the risk that his conduct could lead to death.”

    In other words, James Ray was saved from manslaughter charges by his obvious cluelessness.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • kalista7 said:

    An open letter to the awesome Jurors (I hope they read this page):

    “Dear Jurors: THANK YOU! This trial probably seemed like it would never end!! I know it must have been a challenge for you to sit through the DT’s condescending ramblings, insults and attempted guilt trip on your decision. Don’t ever feel bad about this because your decision (hopefully) will help stop James Ray from his destructive patterns – and that is a blessing. We all appreciate your TIME, patience and detailed thought on a very difficult job. Take care and have a great 4th of July!”

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

  • Anna said:

    Good Post by Mark Duncan w/Daily Courier –
    Native Americans push to clarify sweat lodge traditions:

    http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=95629

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

  • Jose said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -8

    [Reply]

    coco Reply:

    @Jose, sounds like a Schirmer comment, he thinks he is the Lord of the Bible verses and can set anyone on the straight and narrow without doing it himself. weird people.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @Jose ::

    I did google “witchcraft on the Bible” :: because that’s a stupid thing to say … and a stupid way to say it.

    And lo and behold … this same comment on a J-Ho LifeResults Posterous page

    http://liferesults.posterous.com/59088225

    Doesn’t Jesus want you to leave orignal comments? Or is Jesus a spammer?

    [Reply]

  • Linda Em said:

    Interesting that Ray recommended Castenada to his followers. I thought Casteneda’s writings were considered to be largely fiction, although recognized as the result of a brilliant, imaginative mind. But following him is sort of like following the people in Frank Herbert’s Dune or other someone from Star Wars.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @Linda Em, Castaneda claimed they were nonfiction. The first book was actually his doctoral dissertation. The problem is that Castaneda was a complete fraud. I wrote a bit about this here. I think Ray was a Castaneda wannabe. And that’s a horrifying thought. Castaneda had a whole cult of followers — primarily female — who believed everything he wrote. They lived in a mutually reinforced delusion. He has been thoroughly debunked but for a long time his books were accepted as nonfiction; even by UCLA.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    wondering why Reply:

    @LaVaughn, And it is believed that his closest female followers all committed suiside after his death..

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    LaVaughn Reply:

    @wondering why, Yup. And they didn’t even wait for a comet.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

  • omikse said:

    Not sure where to post this news…..Judge Darrow denied a new trial for Ray a few hours ago…it is on to sentencing now….big sigh of relief here….

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    @omikse ::

    Nice! Hopefully that will stop my Luis Li night-terrors.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @SD, for me it will always be the thong-induced Truc Do-si-do sashshay….it still gives me the chills!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    _cartman_ Reply:

    @omikse,

    Great news….but with Darrow denying the motion to vacate…it was pretty much a given that he was going to deny the motion for a new trial…

    If he granted the order to vacate…then that would have been reason to worry…

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    kalista707 Reply:

    @omikse, Yayyyyyyyyyyyy!

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @omikse,

    So does this mean that the mitigation hearings scheduled for all of next week will not take place and it will be right on to trial, or no?

    And PLEASE don’t let us and all the family and friends and countless other victims down in the grand finale, Mr Darrow!

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Bonnie Reply:

    @Bonnie,
    I meant right on to sentencing, of course — sheesh! — still got that blasted moronic retrial request on my mind! lol

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    omikse Reply:

    @Bonnie,…Judge rejects new trial bid in AZ sweat lodge case – ContraCostaTimes.com

    http://www.contracostatimes.com

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:

    Here’s Felicia Fonseca ::

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/09/14/20110914sweat-lodge-deaths-new-trial-request-fails.html

    and Mark Duncan ::

    http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=43846

    [Reply]

    KG Reply:

    @SD, (or directed to any legal mind out there)

    When an appeal is filed, and if it is granted, can a new judge make up his/her own rules and allow new evidence from previous sweat lodge ceremonies (i.e. evidence that the present jurors did not get to hear)? If an appeal is granted, can the new judge increase the sentence of the first judge?

    What do you thing is the likelihood of JAR serving at least some jail time?

    It would seem odd to me, after having been allowed to walk fancy free for 2 months, that JAR would be locked up again for an extended period of time by the same judge. Maybe that’s the usual process though.

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    _cartman_ Reply:

    @Bonnie,

    Correct….mitigation hearing from the 19-23…sentencing on the 26th

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

  • omikse said:

    ARGH!!…….I am not anonymous…I am somebody!!!!!!( Truc Do has sash shayed her way into my computer…I need an exorcist!!!)

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

  • omikse said:

    ………..Defense attorneys now will focus on presenting mitigating factors during a hearing next week that could tip Ray’s sentence toward the lower end. Those include character witnesses and the fact that Ray had no prior convictions. Ray faces anything from probation to nine years in prison. Sentencing is set for Sept. 26.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    @omikse,

    I’m going to be praying for the nine years — and I am NOT a mean or uncaring person!

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    Bonnie Reply:

    @,

    And I am not anonymous, either! lol — I was sure it said my name before I hit send, but maybe I’m mistaken. And in my opinion, nine years isn’t NEARLY enough for not just the four deaths (three that he’s on trial for), but for ALL the people he has harmed and scammed and ruined their lives over the years. Just my very humble opinion :)

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  • nancy said:

    I’ve been reluctant to post this due to the barrage of negative comments about Mark Duncan on this site, but for the sake of family members who may not have seen it, here is a fascinating take by one of the jurors (from the Prescott Courier):

    SWEAT LODGE TRIAL: Juror shares behind-the-scenes insights

    http://www.prescottaz.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&ArticleID=97262

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    SD Reply:

    @nancy ::

    Count me among the people not talking smack about Mark Duncan … without him we’d know WAY less … that’s a fact.

    Although people are also welcome to talk smack about him … he can take it … he’s often quite a dick to me.

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    Anonymous Reply:

    @SD, “Count me among the people not talking smack about Mark Duncan … without him we’d know WAY less … that’s a fact.”

    My sentiments exactly!!

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  • Wyrd said:

    If JAR had been convicted of reckless manslaughter instead of negligent homicide, how would the sentencing have been changed? I mean to what extent is the one considered to be a more severe crime than the other?

    Furry cows moo and decompress.

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    SD Reply:

    @Wyrd ::

    It would have been approx. three times as bad.

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  • Checkerplateman said:

    All tyrants get their day of justice eventually.

    The world is celebrating Gaddfis demise and so they will celebrate the demise of all people who Lord it over others for personal gain. James Ray and his co-conspirators in the secret who Lorded it over so many for a few short pathetic years of temporary personal gain must surely be wondering whether it was all worth it now.

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  • Shaine said:

    Gaddafi was found in a sewer pipe, which is where all of these people end up. Cornered, captured in a less than dignified way, constantly putting out fires all around them, humiliated by having their noses rubbed in their own crap, made to eat it, blaming everyone and everything with lies and more lies only to discover they were the idiots in the end.

    Their stupidity is boundless.

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  • Anonymous said:

    “He called us rats, but look where we found him,” said Ahmed Al Sahati, a 27-year-old government fighter, standing next to two stinking drainage pipes under a six-lane highway near Sirte.

    These so called “experts in personal development” are no better. They have ruled like tyrants and plundered their way to wealth with greed and make believe. They have manipulated and lied and looked down on those who they egotistically consider “stupider human beings than them” and so like everyone who does that they will be found cowering in the gutter, whinging about everyone picking on them and begging for the entire populace to feel sorry for them, when it is impossible to.

    Poor choices have consequences ESPECIALLY when it involves another human life.

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  • marla jade said:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    LOSER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down -9

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    what?? Reply:

    @marla jade,

    Why don’t you STFU, moron? This is the wrong place to be blaming innocent victims of a psychopath.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

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    SD Reply:

    @marla jade ::

    Speaking of stupid … welcome TV watcher.

    I wonder if “loving others as you love yourself” includes saying shit like “they got what they deserved too, for being soooo stupid!” about people who were victimized by a professional abuser … and in a forum where many of those people and their motherfucking families are present?

    Me. Thinks. Not.

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    Wyrd Reply:

    @marla jade,

    So you’re sick of rich people who waste their money on themselves. … ‘k

    Me? I’m sick of people who jump to emotional, dramatic conclusions without ever actually stopping to see if they know wtf they’re talking about.

    ‘course in the interest of full disclosure I can admit I’ve done it myself now and again. Basically, I got temporarily suckered by a con artist–she had me convinced that she was the victim of death threats.

    Now you, @marla jade, you could say you got suckered by Big Media. Maybe that’s it, but mostly I think you are just looking for a place to vent. Ok. But once you really look at a situation, it always turns out not to be as simple as the TV made it out to be.

    The victims were real people like you and me. That they got conned does not mean that they were stupid. It means that they were normal and unlucky.

    If you believe that you are immune to being conned because you are too smart to fall for it, then you are stupid. By so believing, you only make yourself more vulnerable to being conned at some point in the future.


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

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    marla jade Reply:

    @Wyrd, Fury, you are quite right. My anger was more about the senselessness of it. I was insensitive where the victims were concerned and anyone can be conned at some point. I do feel for these families and my anger over it got the best of me. They are not to blame for trying something to better themselves. No one should die like that. I stand corrected, and am sorry for speaking without thinking first. It was a cold-hearted thing to say.

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  • Queenie said:

    hi ya

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  • Question said:

    So what did the sentence end up being? I have never heard.

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    Lanna Reply:

    @Question,

    Three two-year sentences to be served concurrently, which is funny judge-math for 2 + 2 + 2 = 2.

    You can read about the sentence here:
    http://saltydroid.info/james-arthur-ray-life-sentence/

    And the motion to appeal here:
    http://saltydroid.info/harmonic-indigence/

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    Answer Reply:

    @Question, Here you go:

    http://goo.gl/LAZm8

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