144 Comments »

michael webster said:
I saw this over the holidays. It was the first FTC complaint that I have ever seen that had parts of it redacted – blacked out. I tried to find out, but I got nowhere.
  +2
[Reply]

Rachel Hones Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@michael webster, It seems very fishy to me that a investigation paper is being used to slander this man has stuff blacked out. Really am I the only one who smells something fishy about this? Someone has an axe to grind but I am wondering if it is because they are jealous, bitter and manipulative not a poor picked on victim. Really someone has a n underlying motive to destroy this man and the disable his ability to bless other people really people get real.
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]

Get Real Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Looks like the dumbass mormon apologists have arrived.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 12 January 2011 at 9:24 pm

Madge Crikey said:
You know, I’ve had some of those crazy mormon folk come to my screen door promising to get me into heaven. Now I know they just want to get my Master Card number into heaven.
What’s with all these boiler rooms and scammers being located in Mormon country? I know not all Mormons are scammers, because the rest of them are just plain creepy.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]

michael webster Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
@Madge Crikey, Utah is a notorious haven for multi-level-marketing schemes because of their laws. And affiliate marketing is the online version of mlm.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -2
[Reply]

J Reply:
January 12th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
@michael webster,
“affiliate marketing is the online version of mlm.”
That is a pretty ignorant statement.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SE Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 6:24 am
@michael webster,
Affiliate marketing is a online version of being a salesperson.
Amazon, Ebay, Google, Apple, Nike, & Dozens of other mainstream companies run affiliate programs online so people will sell their products online for a commission.
It has nothing to do with MLM at all. Completely legitimate concept. The quality of the products marketed through affiliate programs is a whole different issue. I will say that – YES – they are scammers who run businesses with an affiliate program and they are unethical affiliate marketers who knowingly sell crap as well as lie in their pitch.
But at the same time it’s being used VERY profitably by fortune 500 companies who sell legitimate products and are not scammers. Companies that are worth BILLIONS.
Whether you will become rich through affiliate marketing DEPENDS UPON YOU. It’s a sales job basically. Some salesmen earn millions, some thousands and some nothing. I will say that it’s very competitive depending upon what you are selling and the market. It’s takes WORK… Buying information products costing $2,000 on affiliate marketing is not the way to go. You need to WORK.. sell sell sell and market market market. That’s they only way to make money with affiliate marketing.
MLM is when a organization puts up a front that they have this legitimate business selling a particular line of products. And then they get “distributors” to sell people on the idea of becoming rich by joining their organization and receiving permission to sell their products. The cost of joining is often very expensive and people are often sold on the idea of becoming rich by selling their products (juices, timeshares, water filters, cosmetics, supplements, vitamins, wine) as a “distributor”. This is all one big lie. The products are their to protect the organization from the law. It’s a loophole that is exploited. The selling pitch concept is to sell people on the idea of becoming rich by selling their products when actually the real concept is making money by selling people on the idea of becoming rich by selling their products. Also many companies claim not to be MLM when they actually are. Most people will never make money in MLM because it takes a lot of compromise on ethics to really make money. (You have to lie a lot and be deceptive)
Does that in any reflect affiliate marketing? I don’t think so. Please educate yourself on topics before making statements about them.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

spoonfaceboy Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@SE, I agree with you, but I think he meant to write “internet marketing”.
  0
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michael webster Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@SE, I have failed to make my point.
Yes, just as direct marketing in principle is perfectly legitimate, and the history of Tupperware up to 1980 is a perfect example, so is the online version of direct marketing, affiliate marketing, in principle perfectly legitimate.
However, direct marketing and affiliate marketing badly morph into fraud when: a) you cannot sell x, but b) you can sell the opportunity to sell x.
For various reasons, Utah is profoundly lenient when it comes to regulating direct marketing, allowing mlm frauds rather than appear to regulate direct marketing. Because of this history, they will be more lenient when it comes to affiliate marketing frauds – which currently don’t have a good name to describe them in the same way that “mlm” connotes a fraud.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]

SE Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
@michael webster,
Ohh I see your point now.
But yeah – I agree – it’s legit in principle but can be exploited unethically.
  +3
[Reply]

Ryan Healy Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
@michael webster, This point is excellent and is worth repeating:
“However, direct marketing and affiliate marketing badly morph into fraud when: a) you cannot sell x, but b) you can sell the opportunity to sell x.”
Most people don’t understand this and they desperately need to.
Ryan
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

spoonfaceboy Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 12:09 am
@michael webster, hey, call me retarded, but this:
Utah is profoundly lenient when it comes to regulating direct marketing, allowing mlm frauds rather than appear to regulate direct marketing. Because of this history, they will be more lenient when it comes to affiliate marketing frauds . . .
The second sentence doesn’t follow and it begs the question. Maybe they’ll be more lenient, maybe they won’t. You think they will because of history. I got your point.
affiliate marketing frauds – which currently don’t have a good name to describe them in the same way that “mlm” connotes a fraud.
I told you that these days the most common name for affiliate marketing fraud is “internet marketing”. Only fringe elements of affiliate marketing (and direct marketing) are about selling the opportunity to sell x. We refer to these people as “internet marketers”.
Utah is lax about direct marketing laws.
Nevada is great at shielding corporate identities.
Offshore accounts make good tax shelters.
Ski masks hide the faces of gas station robbers.
Affiliate marketing is not the online version of MLM anymore than ski resorts are breeding grounds for gas station robbers.
http://www.google.com/ads/affiliatenetwork/
http://www.amnavigator.com/blog/
http://advertisingcentral.yahoo.com/affiliate_programs/index.php
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

michael webster Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 10:02 am
@spoonfaceboy, Well I won’t call you “profoundly retarded”, but instead respond to what your points are.
0. Yes, I should have been more clear in saying that affiliate marketing is the online version of direct marketing. The Direct Marketing Association contains some of the largest network marketing schemes – or multi-level marketing schemes. Some of these schemes don’t sell products, but simply tell you how to sell products – which don’t sell.
1. I am pretty sure that most people outside the affiliate marketing world would not identify “internet marketing” with a scam or fraud. Iworks was an interesting version of the offline business opportunity fraud, but with forced upsells and illegal credit/debit card charges.
2. No, not all affiliate marketing is bad, far from it. Just like all direct marketing is not bad. Affiliate marketing presents its own challenges for the ultimate seller of the goods – mostly having to do with control over the affiliate’s affiliates marketing techniques.
3. Finally, a state with lax prohibitions against direct selling fraud is a good place to run an internet marketing scheme from. The state’s AG is unlikely to respond to complaints, which will give the marketer about a 3-4 year window.
  +4

Rachel Hones Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SE, Have you even looked into honestly this company and want they really are or do you always believe what people tell you about a company? Really Media lies all the time twists things etc. Taking what they say as gospel is just downright foolish you should make sure you know the truth before assuming that. I happen to know that this company is not what it is being painted to be.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Get Real Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
@Rachel Hones, So “you happen to know?” That means you are BIASED, idiot. Go take your douchebaggery somewhere else.
  +1
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Kann Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@michael webster,
Not even remotely close buddy.
  0
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Steve Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:43 am
@Madge Crikey,
Every Mormon boy in good standing with the Mormon Church goes on a 2 year mission in his late teens/early 20′s.
They spend the first several months in intensive sales training. I’m not kidding. They come back from their mission with no marketable skills, except the ability to strong-arm/sell/scam people into buying, or buying into ridiculous sh*t.
THAT’S WHY so many boiler rooms are located in Utah. They have the highest concentration of well trained and low paid sales people.
  +2
[Reply]
# 12 January 2011 at 10:49 pm

Martypants said:
Up until now, I was only down with OPP. You have now made me also down with OPM, and I am anxiously awaiting other acronyms to adopt and be down with. Hopefully, you can find it in your metal heart to offer some without these losers attached to the build-up. Though I do appreciate this clown comparing himself to Jesus. They are pretty much the same, really – if you look back in the scriptures, I think you’ll find Jesus enjoyed the releases offered by a trampoline and a rock wall right before he went nuts on the money changers. I’ll have to verify that one…
  +5
[Reply]

what?? Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 12:21 am
@Martypants,
While you’re verifying that, could you also find the scripture reference for Jesus’ “Always Be Closing” sermon? I can’t seem to find it and I’d like to have it embroidered on a pillow.
  +3
[Reply]

Iforget Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 7:55 am
@what??, It’s simple. All good marketers get their start proselytizing. No connection to the two year “missionary sentence” of certain churches in Utah, of course…
  +2
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
@Iforget,
That whole crucifixion was a pretty sweet marketing launch of his new religion, doncha think?
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +5
[Reply]

Martypants Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@Duff, The market was ready – I think Jesus understood that. But a stigmata really messes with your ability to scale a rock wall efficiently.
  +5
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 12:00 am

Wanderlost said:
I asks myself, is Frank Kern stupid enough to direct robotic attention to a guy he’s hand ‘n glove with? And I answers myself, could be! :D This is gonna be fun!
  0
[Reply]

Shit Storm Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@Wanderlost,
No way Kern didn’t give this guy his list of buyers…otherwise how did he call them.
Is Kern stupid enough to believe this outfit dialed people blind and used his name to make sales…like everyone in the word is aware of Frank/Irwin Kern
They kept dialing using kerns name becausr they KEPT closing…which means that these people knew Kern…as customers of his
Kern used them and so did Reese
  +3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@Shit Storm ::
Yeah. And this was back in 2002ish … before Mass Control … or The Syndicate … or Twitter. Nobody’s ever heard of Irwin Kern at this point … except for his cousins/sisters.
[Reply]

Unicorn Army Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
@SD, Kern, like Yanik Silver, used resale rights to become famous. With thousands of people selling their product, their names would ring out across the web. iWorks probably paid $50 for “Instant Empires,” with resale rights, and sold it for a dollar to get boiler-room leads. Leads they then called on as if they worked for Kern… who “got famous” more due to the FTC than anything.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Zack Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 3:34 am
@Unicorn Army, I seriously doubt that was the scenario here. Outfits like this tend to work hand in hand, like conduits, with other front businesses to milk their live leads. This guy didn’t build an operation of this magnitude off of resale crap like “Instant Empires.” I think they were fed leads from multiple douchebag sources, and those sources need a wake up call.
  +1
[Reply]

C Tomasulo Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 4:49 am
@Zack,
Maybe.
It’s a pool of sharks and piranhas in the telemarketing/sales lead generation game. You can buy a name and phone number for nearly anything you want.
If a person in the know wanted to buy a list of people who bought Frank Kern products you can be sure they could buy that list without Frank Kern’s permission. If that same person wanted to buy a list with all your credit card numbers and the last thing you bought on-line it would be illegal – but rest assured it is available and for sale – somewhere.
It’s also very possible that the scenario that Unicorn Amy outlined occurred. Resale rights essentially allow people to market a product you created any way they please and if your name is associated with that product you are sure to attract the wrong kind of attention.
You wrote:
‘This guy didn’t build an operation of this magnitude off of resale crap like “Instant Empires.”’
It’s not the crappy product that builds empires – it’s the names of people who are in the market for what that crappy product represents. Those names build empires.
Fortunes and empires are made regularly by catering to people who have a disposition to believe that:
1. You can get rich quick with little or no work AND/OR little or no investment (In the real world you can get rich with little work but it requires money to invest and the brains to know where to invest it).
2. That they DESERVE unearned money from someone or some entity (hence the relatively recent proliferation of grant sites and products).
3. That every mishap in their life was a matter of circumstance and so as a result they are special and should be given special privileges that regular folks don’t get.
Combine marketing products to people with people predisposed to those mentalities with continuity billing and money flows quickly.
The thing these “empire builders” fail to realize is that when you play to people’s low and ignorant dispositions – those same low and ignorant dispositions will be used against you.
WINNER!! ::   +11

Poop Chute Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 8:32 am
@C Tomasulo, Just gave you da thumbs up for your astute assessment of the reality of the situation. Sounds like you’re speaking from experience rather than innuendo and what you “think” “probably” happened.
I also know for a fact many of the worst douche-bags out there forget that some of the people in that market are more than happy, once they’ve laid out the money and seen nothing in return, to blame THEM for all the misery in their lives.
I worked with a guy once who told me in no uncertain terms he knows his audience is miserable. He caters to that. Promises whatever it takes to get their money, then happily accepts that blame because he knows only 30% or so will ever admit the mistake and demand a refund…then he makes the refunds cheerfully.
The entire biz-opp world is built primarily on the same philosophy that built the great pyramid — in **Vegas**. They want to plop some money in and pull the handle for a chance to win “easy money” back sometimes. Problem is — most of the scum bags never pay at all and at least the casinos tell you going in what your odds are and pay out occasionally.
I especially love (sarcastic here) Matthew Lesko’s approach — “FREE MONEY!” It kind of says it all. Goes right to the heart of the approach and what the market he’s after is looking for, wouldn’t you agree?
It gets REALLY evil when they knowingly go after an elderly market, tailoring the message to appeal to baby boomers because, as I’ve heard in many discussions, they’re the ones with “disposable” income. Sadly, these folks are actually on fixed incomes hoping to turn them into something more substantial and they wind up with even that being taken away from them at a time when they’re too old or not in a position to ever recoup their losses another way.
Nothing here is to be construed as blaming the victim. It’s not their fault, even though their desire for easy or “free” money does make them easier marks. As was said earlier, you don’t blame victims of crime because they couldn’t run fast enough to get away or didn’t know better. If a business is built on lies it’s criminal. Period.
  +4

Cosmic Connie Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 11:38 am
@Poop Chute wrote in response to @C Tomasulo: “It gets REALLY evil when they knowingly go after an elderly market, tailoring the message to appeal to baby boomers because, as I’ve heard in many discussions, they’re the ones with ‘disposable’ income…”
While the compassion in this statement is duly noted, I think that at this point it would be a mistake to conflate “baby boomers” with “elderly market,” which denotes people on fixed incomes who are totally out of touch with technology and willing to fall for any scam that comes along.
I suppose “elderly” is a matter of individual perspective, but to put things in a larger perspective: The consensus of most demographers and social historians is that the fabled post-World-War-II U.S. baby boom occurred between 1946 and 1964 (the UK and other areas had slightly different time frames for their booms and “boomlets”). This means that the oldest U.S. baby boomers turn 65 this year and the youngest turn 47. And they’re not all naive, ignorant, and out of touch with technology or the outside world. Bill Gates is a baby boomer. President Obama is a baby boomer. Richard Branson is a baby boomer. You get the drift.
As it happens, Tony Robbins and James Arthur Ray and Kevin True-dough — indeed, many if not most of the classic hustledorks — are baby boomers too.
As for “disposable income,” that’s a bit of a mis-perception too in many cases. Putting aside those rich-and-famous examples listed above, the income picture isn’t all that rosy for many baby boomers. As is the case with those of younger and older generations, many boomers are struggling just to meet their basic bills after being down-sized or permanently laid off. And many have the misfortune of being squeezed by the enormous expenses of kids in college and aging parents who can no longer care for themselves.
While these factors might make many boomers uniquely receptive to get-rich-quick schemes, it’s a huge mistake to imagine that boomers are all sweet little grannies who are delighted to hear from the nice man in the Mormon boiler room because he sounds so much like that beloved grandson who never calls or writes.
That said, scamming people *is* evil, whether the target is a 22-year-old college grad with huge hopes and dreams but no real job prospects; a 47-year-old IT professional who just got booted out of a cushy job; a 61-year-old who’s too young to collect Social Security but can’t get a decent-paying job; or an 84-year-old with a substantial life savings.
WINNER!! ::   +13

Drumroll Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@Poop Chute, First: go fuck yourself, asswipe. Second: You have a limit of (1) rambling, incoherent, dumbass, state-the-obvious comment per post, remember? And lastly: go fuck yourself.
  -2

Regrets Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
@C Tomasulo,
You mention
“Fortunes and empires are made regularly by catering to people who have a disposition to believe that:
1. You can get rich quick with little or no work AND/OR little or no investment (In the real world you can get rich with little work but it requires money to invest and the brains to know where to invest it).
2. That they DESERVE unearned money from someone or some entity (hence the relatively recent proliferation of grant sites and products).
3. That every mishap in their life was a matter of circumstance and so as a result they are special and should be given special privileges that regular folks don’t get.
Combine marketing products to people with people predisposed to those mentalities with continuity billing and money flows quickly.”
Nicely put. So maybe no one will notice that you are doing a fine job of blaming the victim? Especially considering the fact that none of what you said has anything to do with proven fact and you’re really just pulling it out of your ass.
How nice that you managed to make the victims almost as despicable as the perpetrators, maybe we should put them in jail instead.
Here is another way to build “empires” (I must say I didn’t know 2nd rate scam artists build empires, that’s a new one):
1. Lie to your customers about your products and what they do.
2. Lie to your customers about how much you’re going to charge their credit cards and for how long.
3. Lie to your customers about your qualifications to teach them anything.
4. Lie to your customers about your refund policy.
5. Lie to your customers about everything else.
6. Lie to the feds when they come to arrest you.
7. Lie to the judge when you’re on the stand.
8. Lie to yourself that you’re not total shit and deserve to be homeless.
9. Lie to everyone else you meet that you are actually somebody worth talking to.
WINNER!! ::   +11

C. Tomasulo Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
@Regrets,
To address your “concern”…
Stating the fact that people with certain beliefs and dispositions are targeted by marketers is real. If you want to believe that that’s BLAMING the people that are targeted so be it.
People believe certain things. They shouldn’t be taken advantage of or lied to when they believe those things. But they are. And it happens all the time.
The people with the dispositions I mentioned can be targeted by various groups and ARE… legitimate marketers (few and far between with the psycho-graphics I mention), scam artists (many), and politicians/various branches of government.
If you’d like to put your head in the sand and pretend it ain’t so… well… so be it. Writing a list of things that start with “lie” doesn’t change a thing regardless of how smart it and smug it makes you feel.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -2

Regrets Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
@C Tomasulo, I don’t think I’m the one with my head in the sand. If you were not so wrapped up in that cloudy deluded world of manipulation, you would see that you’re not looking so good right now. I give you credit for persistence though.
WINNER!! ::   +8

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@regrets,
If anyone takes the time to really read what Tomaloser is saying, it’s readily apparent that the dick head has admitted to being involved in TWO scams, is guilty as charged, but plays innocent by pulling the dummy card (no big surprise) claiming he wasn’t aware they were scams to begin with. One of them involved credit card fraud, did it not, and the other a grant fraud program?
He further tries to minimize or wash away charges by using “press release” as some sort of cushion to his involvement… “hey it was just for the press…” and citing that the “principles” went to jail, while he did not, sort of absolves him of responsibility.
Sure, whatever you say Doc Dumbledorf. I’m sure “quick flutters of your left hand” with that mighty wand you earned at Hogwarts, is going to put all of those charges under the carpet for you.
Doc Dumbledorf then goes on to make the claim that his website is one big joke (I actually agree, it is) by stating it has CARTOON CHARACTERS all over it, which should unconsciously signal that Doc Dumbledorf is full of shit and not to be taken seriously. I agree with that too. I also agree that he looks like a cartoon character himself – Elmer Fudd.
What all of this, happily, represents is what I’ve been saying in earlier blog comments that NLP and those attracted to it are inherently dishonest. Doc Dumbledorf (ie’ Christopher Tomasulo) has been a perfect reflection of this by his actions here. For those not manipulative enough to use this scammers technology to hurt people, are the remaining dupes who believe it’s a science and proper change-work technology, who then become parrots for this pseudo-scientific scam and new wage religion, founded by a crook itself.
  +5

Irwin Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
@SD,
And look at them now…
http://treylink.com/iphone-game/
They’re so clever and stuff.
  +4
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:25 am
@Irwin, What is what pooop chute means when he said,
“@C Tomasulo, Just gave you da thumbs up for your astute assessment of the reality of the situation. Sounds like you’re speaking from experience rather than innuendo and what you “think” “probably” happened.”?
Is it the same Tomasulo as this one:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/05/rescue.shtm
or is that the different Tomasulo? Because I don’t understand about what Poop Chute means by what he told me?
What does he mean about “speaking from experience”?
  +5
[Reply]

C Tomasulo Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 9:32 am
@Jack,
Yes – That press release is about me.
The two times in my life I consulted for a person (the same one b/c I’m not that bright at times)… So the two times in my life I consulted for this person who played to people with the dispositions I mentioned above got me sued by the FTC for about $15 million and got the principals put in Federal prison for many decades. So yes, I understand from experience how these things work out.
This particular article caught my eye because it involves St. George Utah – a place that spawned Kyle Kimoto – who was part of a what at the time (2000 to 2003) was supposedly the biggest telemarketing operation in the world (according to the FTC). Kyle Kimoto made it to #6 in the Forbes rankings of the longest white collar prison sentences (Bernie Madoff was #4).
http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/24/bernie-madoff-prison-sentence-business-beltway-madoff_slide_9.html
His company – Assail Inc. employed a good portion of the city of St George Utah. I heard it was more than half but that could be just a rumor.
My first lawsuit with the FTC was a direct result of the practices of Kyle Kimoto and his telemarketers.
In 2003 the FTC got a judgment for over $100 Million on him and his company. He lost pretty much all his assets including a 10 acres ranch in St. George, Utah, that featured 11 bedrooms, nine bathrooms, 6,000 square feet of air-conditioned horse stables and a jet ski pond.
He moved himself and his wife to Las Vegas.
Later in 2007 or 2008 (I’m not sure) he was indicted for the same things that the FTC sued him for and ended up being convicted by a jury.
Before Kimoto went to prison he set up an elaborate grant program similar to what this guy Jeremy Johnson has. He also set up layers of corporations and several for his wife. They recently were shut down by the FTC…
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/sep/09/former-mrs-nevada-accused-scam/
Now here is another guy (Mormon) from the same town catering to the same type of people.
I find it interesting and more than just coincidence.
If my name and history doesn’t stop you from absorbing what I’m saying then you might get some insight you won’t get elsewhere. I don’t have anything to sell, I don’t have competitors I need to bash or put out of business and I’m not trying to form any LGATs – so I’m writing here simply because I want to and because I think I have something to contribute that will help the people reading this blog.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +6

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 11:34 am
@Jack, Thank you mr. C. I think it’s at least good because you can tell us so much more about how it all really works then!
  +4

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 11:39 am
@Jack, mr. C can you tell us about Mormon & the scams? I read this blog and people say there is probably the connection but is there a real straigth connection that you know?
  +5

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 11:47 am
@Jack, Is it the other one here for you:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/02/bayarea.shtm
Can you explain about how you would get involved and not know they were selling Bogus credit cards because I don’t know how that can happen.
But what is more interesting is how it all worked? Do you write about it anywhere or here is good too for us to learn and know?
  +6

TS Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@Mr C. As a former employee of Kyle(/Julie) in their 2007-2009 ventures I need to say don’t worry about your historical decisions. I look back at my time with Kyle and the work that we did and still question the work we did. I am not an attorney but I know I would have left if I felt that anything we were doing was illegal. At the time I saw it as “forceful” marketing, but having read our Terms and Conditions 100′s of times everything was there in black and white. It still seems strange to me that the company was shutdown for doing something illegal. Luckily I wasn’t involved at the depth that you were, but I remember a lot of the ramblings as they talked about BABC and others.
  +3

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@Jack, TS. where was the black & white – was it hidden away where a bunch of people couldn’t see the “black and white”??
“The FTC has charged the defendants with violating the FTC Act by misrepresenting that government grants are available for paying personal expenses, that consumers are likely to obtain grants by using the defendants’ program, that users of their money-making products will earn substantial income, and that their offers are free or risk-free. The complaint also alleges that defendants failed to disclose that consumers who pay a nominal shipping and handling fee will be enrolled in expensive plans that charge consumers fees until they cancel, and that the defendants charged consumers’ credit cards and debited their bank accounts without their consent.”
So did the terms and the conditions maybe say,
“You absolve us for lying to you about all the money we told you you can get or made you think you can get” and also “you absolve us and hold us sometimes harmeless against hiding some billing charges from you and if the FTC shuts us down for hiding your billing charges, you authorize us and any of our employees to go ahead and post on Salty Droid that we are really some good people just trying to help people out”?
be back in a bit after I knock off a few grandmas and steal their purses (but i’ll slip a TOS into their pocket that they can read later saying that they authorized me to go ahead and mug them.
WINNER!! ::   +7

TS Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jack,
Here is how I understand what was going on with BABC. Assail (a call center handling mulitple clients) would contract with a company (e.g. BABC) to make telephone calls to people that had been rejected for obtaining credit cards (bought from the credit card companies). The phone center would make the calls trying to sell a “Pay as you go” card using very strict scripts and counters to a persons excuse for not wanting to purchase in. When a sale was finalized the list was sent over to BABC for fulfillment. Its a little hazy but I remember that mailers were also sent out with applications to other credit cards. The phone agents were forbidden to say that the “Pay as you go” card was a credit card. The clients of assail would collect their money and send it down the line to Assail to get more customers. Apparently there was an issue with these companies completing their obligated fulfillment, and the state of IL has some very strict laws regarding telemarketing. IL people were supposed to be left off of the list to be marketed to but a few managed to slip through because of out of state phone numbers.
Essentially if the sales rep spoke their lines correctly and the fulfillment was correctly completed and they werent in IL, everything was legal.
LOSER!! ::   -4

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@Jack, Betcha a bazillion dollarinos FTC didn’t get involved just for breaking some “very strict” “Illinois laws”. Betcha a bazillion-mazillion bucks.
  +4

TS Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
@Jack, The tos can be read on page 27+ http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0923108/090820grantconnectcmpt.pdf Note the “Smart Health Gold” and “Member Legal Net” sections were it describes the “other services” they were signed up for. Im not trying to say what they were doing was right. I was just trying to say I understand how a consultant would see everything as looking legit and mistakingly get themselves into trouble.
  +5

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 1:54 am
@Chris Tomasulo,
@Jack,
“Yes – That press release is about me.”
It wasn’t a press release, but an FTC judgement against you for the tune of $2.7 million Tomasulo… Dr. Covert Communication ;)
“The two times in my life I consulted for a person (the same one b/c I’m not that bright at times)… So the two times in my life I consulted for this person who played to people with the dispositions I mentioned above got me sued by the FTC for about $15 million”
You “consulted” for scammers, not once, but twice. LOL. Excuse me for laughing at the idea that you didn’t know better “Doc” Sulo.
“My first lawsuit with the FTC was a direct result of the practices of Kyle Kimoto and his telemarketers.”
LOL, your *FIRST* lawsuit with the FTC…lol…sorry, this is pricless Doc Sulo.
“I find it interesting and more than just coincidence.”
Actually I was about to use those words, verbatim, with regards to your defense of NLP and scammer Richard Bandler, in another Droid posting a few months ago.
WINNER!! ::   +7

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@Jack,
Looks like the cat in the hat (his favorite Dr Suess novel) has got Christopher Tomasulo’s tongue :)
Imagine not knowing he was involved in not ONE but TWO scams, one right after the other.
Weird…
WINNER!! ::   +8

C. Tomasulo Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@Jack,
I’m still here.
You’re really getting me good with the stuff that appears on pages 1-3 of Google and has been publicly known and available to the entire world when you enter my name for the past 3 to 7 years.
Anyway – I post when I have something to say. And last time I checked the original post isn’t about me. But research on – maybe you can find something that didn’t come out in years of Federal discovery and reams of records on the proceedings – Sherlock.
And btw – TO Jimmy the Genius – both links Jack posted above ARE to press releases – but hey what’s reality got to do with it when you start typing – right? It’s easier for you to babble about NLP, pretend I said things about it that I didn’t and start saying there is no press release when you click on that link – great strategy dim wit.
“These are not the press releases you are looking for.” – I’m sure most people won’t see the FOR RELEASE at the top of the PRESS RELEASE right?
Stop watching that scene in Star Wars – it’s not real.
Maybe you and your roommate can fire up your ten bookmarked proxys and vote this down. Kinda like you did when I said you don’t have to be stupid to be hypnotized or when I said NLP is not the best way to learn how to scam people.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1

Jack Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@Jack, So, it is a little “getting you” because I want to look at the motive for you to be here – which is why I found you with mr. Kilstein to see if you might be here for defending here – but it is more to see if I can learn from you and if I learn from you what to look out for such as the hidden motives of maybe defending dr. Kilstein.
You sound more like a child than I first imagined based on the first interesting posts you were doing.
  +6

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
@Tomasulo,
Are you trying to say that because it was released to the press the judgment against you for being involved in the scam is in anyway less incriminating?
You write:
“what’s reality got to do with it when you start typing.”
LOL, reality, you say, like a judgment against you for $2.7 million?
“The settlements with Christopher Tomasulo and Bonnie Werner (formerly Bonnie A. Harris) resolve these charges and impose judgments of $2,791,040.40 each, which will be suspended based on their inability to pay.”
The judgement of 2.7million, which were suspended because you’re broke, being “just a press release” somehow absolves you of wrong doing?
Wow Dr Covert Communication, you really spun some silky lemonade for my ear drums to soak up there.
No comment on your other “mind reads” on me. Isn’t that against your religion?
What scene in Star wars are you referring to btw, or maybe you can come back with another equally meaningless reference to Harry Potter, since you’re such a big fan :)
You really should be ashamed for being involved in a scam (TWO TIMES, and with Dr. Killstein…lol…), which I believe you had full knowledge of “Dr” Sulo, but that’s the nature of sociopathy – you really have no remorse for you victims, do you?
WINNER!! ::   +12

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
@Christopher Tomasulo
Chris writes about himself:
“He speaks lemon-yellow words that splash into ear canals and squeeze themselves into refreshing influence lemonade.”
Man that was sweet. I totally believe you now Covert Chris
:)))
  +6

C. Tomasulo Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jack,
Jimmy Ray wrote:
“LOL, reality, you say, like a judgment against you for $2.7 million?”
Let’s see – I write that I stipulated to judgments totaling about $15 million and you come back by bringing up up $2.7 of the $15 million in judgments. Way to go with the mocking ability there Jimmy. Good one. You really got me with that lower number.
And the “lemon yellow words”… got me there too. You didn’t happen to see the CARTOON CHARACTER at the top of my website did you? Or the other tongue-in-cheek hyperbole references throughout the site? Probably not ’cause it seems like you can’t get off of page one.
BTW you do know there’s no reference to Harry Potter on my site right? I hope so because otherwise your hallucinating Jimmy. That’s not a good sign considering you think only stupid people can be thrown into a hypnotic trance.
Why don’t you stick to copying and pasting well-written rants by better writers? Like you did with the Richard Bandler shooting story. THAT was good writing. But then again it wasn’t written by you – just copied and pasted by you.
LOSER!! ::   -9

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
@Christopher Tomasulo,
Not only are you void of remorse, but you really are a dumb fuck aren’t you? I mean, I cut and pasted a statement from the “press release” that stated you’re guilty and were charged a tune of $2.7 million and you come back and mock me for not knowing that you were guilty of more?
That’s funny Doc Sulo, remorseless and even proud of being a crook.
“Let’s see – I write that I stipulated to judgments totaling about $15 million and you come back by bringing up up $2.7 of the $15 million in judgments. Way to go with the mocking ability there Jimmy. Good one. You really got me with that lower number.”
So again, that I quotes a specific judgement against you of $2.7, whereas it was higher, makes me the fool?
LOL
Doc Covert Communication says:
“And the “lemon yellow words”… got me there too.”
On his website:
“About Christopher Tomasulo
At home Christopher Tomasulo is your average dad with three kids. However, here at Covert Comm he is known as “Doc Sulo” and he mind-warps crowds with a tiny flutter of his left hand. He clothespins ideas to unsuspecting gray matter. He speaks lemon-yellow words that splash into ear canals and squeeze themselves into refreshing influence lemonade. It has also been said he’s half-way decent at making complex persuasion and influence techniques simple.”
You’re really full of yourself aren’t you “Doc”? I mean, involved in two FTC judgements against YOU, two scams, admitting to it, being implicated in $15millions of losses (ie: to victims) and all you can do is shit talk on a blog roll comment section.
What a loser.
Doc Sulo:
“BTW you do know there’s no reference to Harry Potter on my site right?”
Doc Sulo’s website:
“In June of 2002 I attended Roy Williams Magical Worlds curriculum at the Wizard Academy.”
Whatever you say Dumbledorf :)
” I hope so because otherwise your hallucinating Jimmy.”
Yep, you wizarded me Doc D.
“That’s not a good sign considering you think only stupid people can be thrown into a hypnotic trance.”
Only stupid people would allow you to dupe them, that’s for sure. I had your 411 from the second response of yours, Chris. Tell me, what’s worse…being outed as a scammer, or having a judgement against you written off because you’re not even a good enough scammer to have made money scamming people?
What a riot.
You must like pain.
“Why don’t you stick to copying and pasting well-written rants by better writers?”
I have your 411 Doc, and I know it, and it makes me smile ;)
WINNER!! ::   +8

Jack Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 2:42 am
Jimmy, it sounds like you know mr. C, maybe? But can he tell us about scamming then? Because I was looking for more and saw this:
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Largo/covert-communications-inc-5876382.aspx
Is it also a timeshare scam, maybe?
So we could learn about selling bogus credit card offers, mortgage rescue scams, and timeshare fraud?
I still don’t knkow how it can be an accident to be involved with so many scams, though.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 2:45 am
@Jack, Now it is more interesting to me, because I found this, too:
http://www.sixfigurecopy.com/calls/CoachingCallDrSulo-1.pdf with m.r Kilstein that I read about here at SD blog before here:
http://saltydroid.info/harlan-kilstein-victimizing-the-victim/
WINNER!! ::   +10

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 3:18 am
@Jack,
Well, let’s put it this way…
In this Droid blog posting:
www DOT saltydroid DOT info/the-syndicate-meets-the-secret/
we had an interested discussion that branched off of NLP, the pseudo-psycholoy that Kern uses in his sales jobs and what “Dr” Sulo peddles for his line of work. My position was that NLP inherently attracts scammers because it was born out of a scam as it’s originator was/is a crook.
Dr Sulo came out of no where to defend it, but eventually got exposed. I never imagined that he was in trouble with the FTC TWICE…but I am also not surprised. Yes, I’m pretty sure Dr. Sulo can tell us about scamming, indeed.
This is very amusing in fact. If you’ve got more, put it up.
and a big LOLOL at “Dr.” Sulo :)))))
WINNER!! ::   +9

Jack Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
@Jack,
I don’t think mr. C is coming back, so
It’s more for them, Jimmy:
http://world-copywriting-institute.typepad.com/world_copywriting_blog/2007/05/stamp_out_marke.html
“Dr. Harlan Kilstein and Chris Tomasulo held a fantastic seminar Saturday and Sunday at the Platinum Hotel in Las Vegas.
The seminar was called “Covert Communications” and all the proceeds were donated to Children’s Hospital Los Angeles, a charity designated by the late Gary’s sons Bond and Kevin.”
Looookiie – more “goodwill to fellow members of the human race” (philanthropy) after much “ill will” toward fellow members of the human race (misanthropy?) – see FTC “press releases” (can I get my press release to the FTC via PRNewsWire maybe?).
WINNER!! ::   +7

Jack Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
@Jack, Hi mr. C, than you for making a post again, because I only know now more about you. Why is it bad to post about you because we can learn more about scams so I like to know if I can learn something from somebody and so I wanted to go find out more about you to see if you knew what you’re talking about and so I don’t understand why it would matter that the information is publicly available for years if i’m only trying to learn about it now – which means I wasn’t searching for it for years, because I only found Salty Droid from SEOBook not too long ago when Ryan Deiss was on the sEOBook site.
Is it bad for me to research somebody to see if they know what they’re talking about, maybe? I don’t understand why you can call me Sherlock, because he was a good detective and I don’t think I would be like him at all really.
WINNER!! ::   +7
# 13 January 2011 at 3:28 am

You know said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/22/jeremy-johnson-utah-milli_n_433755.html
  +2
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 5:00 am

Rafael Marquez said:
Jeremy Johnson, the scumbag’s scumbag. Nice.
  +6
[Reply]

Sounding Horn Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
@Rafael Marquez,
I lol’d ;-) Nice one.
  +1
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 8:42 am

Dolly's Dickotomy said:
Nice post which also serves to illustrate how little the media research their stories – all it takes is one rich, white, christianish american and they’ll be diverted from the unfortunate,poor, non-white, not sure about their religion unamericans being vistied by God’s wrath. Fuck me sideways with a helicopter.
I hope he uses the “even when Jesus was here, people thought he did things wrong” as part of his defence. I thought people were meant to get past their Jesus delusions after puberty wears off.
“I get held back, but if I had my way, I wouldn’t care what anybody thought, or what the rules or laws said.” er ok, you are well on your way to sociopathville.
I first came across the term OPM when being groomed by sales staff from JJ’s part of the world. You almost have to admire the Orwellian mindfuck of turning debt into a groovy hazy complex financial concept.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Martypants Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 11:07 am
@Dolly’s Dickotomy, you had me at helicopter.
  +6
[Reply]

Rachel Hones Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@Dolly’s Dickotomy, Defiantly The media need to research their stories better. just so you know this thing is full of false info and untrue implications it is just plain slander pure and simple.
  -3
[Reply]

Get Real Reply:
February 5th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Rachel Hones, We’ll just see about that, Rachel, IN COURT. Say hi to your pal Jeremy for us.
  +1
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 9:45 am

bohica said:
wow, our boy even pays off gubmint offishells.
so… there’s no way this douche made all this money through his 5 (or 50) crappy websites.
i wonder how he did it then? (hmmmmmm.)
and i wonder what the ongoing connection to frankie boy and his syndicate goons could be?
there is a subtle hint that there may be a connection there, and i can’t wait to find out…
2011 is gettin’ good….
  +6
[Reply]

SE Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 10:45 am
@bohica,
That money was defiantly earned through boiler room business coaching fraud.
  +5
[Reply]

Shit Storm Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
@bohica,
No way Kern didn’t give this guy his list of buyers…otherwise how did he call them.
Is Kern stupid enough to believe this outfit dialed people blind and used his name to make sales…like everyone in the word is aware of Frank/Irwin Kern
They kept dialing using kerns name becausr they KEPT closing…which means that these people knew Kern…as customers of his
Kern used them and so did Reese
  +3
[Reply]

Unicorn Army Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
@Shit Storm, see my comment above – it’s more hilarious than you think. People thought they were buying from Kern because anybody who bought his product had the right to sell it themselves. Using the same cookie cutter website and sales letter – signed by Irwin F. Kern. iWorks didn’t need to cut him in on the scam at all, they just had to sell the “product” for a lower price.
  +6
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 11:58 am
@bohica, Backend sales maybe with:
* Boiler room $10K coaching fraud?
* Sell stolen credit cards?
* Go do some money laundering for people using the stolen ccs?
good questin about where the other money is from. Just some brainstormed ideas.
  +2
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 10:31 am

SE said:
Tony Bobbins in 1993.
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 10:36 am

Ross Jeffries said:
@Salty
Awesome work. Any idea why a complaint would redact the $$$ amount?
  +4
[Reply]

Larry Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
@Ross Jeffries, You can find out what is behing the redaction (and learn how to have a more satisfying life) by calling 1-800-Morman-Redaction.
  +4
[Reply]

SD Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
@Ross Jeffries ::
The redaction is strange … I don’t get it.
Maybe they were trying to prevent a run on the Bank of Jeremy …
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/51045500-79/johnson-elie-suit-sunfirst.html.csp
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 2:33 pm

Kann said:
I love that word…redacted. Reminds of that one episode of The Office. “REDACT IT!”
  -1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
@Kann ::
… and that reminds me of how you’ve never said a single interesting thing here in hundreds of opportunities. Maybe you should start commenting on the Mormon Times instead.
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 7:54 pm

MazeMan said:
Is it just me, of does anyone else think Jeremy Johnson bares a resemblance to Carrot Top in the picture at the top of this post??
If so, then Frank Kern and Mike Koenigs must also hate Carrot Top too. I mean, they wouldn’t want to be pictured with that clown or would they?? – http://tinypic.com/r/adnp88/7
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
@MazeMan ::
nice nips
[Reply]

MazeMan Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 12:44 am
OK… somebody tagged the photo with the phrase “kern is a faggot”. So stupid and so childish. I didn’t know someone could tag the photo.
Now, does anyone know how to remove tags on tinypic??
Thanks!
  0
[Reply]
# 13 January 2011 at 8:04 pm

seriously? said:
Given all of the dirt that is already part of the public record PLUS the brilliant work of Salty Droid PLUS the thousands and thousands (maybe more?) of people who have been scammed by the likes of all of these guys and I can’t help by ask WHY. THE. FUCK. ARE. ANY. OF. THEM. STILL. IN. BUSINESS!?!?
What am I missing?!
  +2
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
@seriously?, Hope. Springs. Eternal.
  +2
[Reply]

seriously? Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
It sure does! Good point :)
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@seriously? ::
Even when the government cares :: they are the slowest thing on the ice.
Arizona didn’t move on J-Ray for 6 months even though people were dead :: and the fucking trial hasn’t even started yet.
Meanwhile :: Death Ray scams on. Not one finger lifted by anyone {except us of course} to try and slow his bullshit sales/con schemes.
We need white collar police! Walking around with MagLights …
“HEY … what are you kids doing down there with those derivatives? Come up here … I’m going to have to call your Mothers … and your board of directors.” Smack!
[Reply]

Ryan Healy Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@SD, White collar police would put a whole new meaning on “Geek Squad.”
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 14 January 2011 at 12:23 pm

Stacy said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
What a joke… no, not Iworks and Jeremy Johnson, but all you morons who believe everything you read. Read the case and get the FACTS. The FTC has NO base for their accusations against this man. They even admitted that straight to his face. They know they will not win their case against him. He did NOT break any laws. People did NOT read what they signed up for, were surprised when they were charged a larger amount than expected, and if they were upset about it… they called and GOT THEIR MONEY BACK. EVERY TIME. It’s no different than credit cards, mortgages and other “trial offers”. If you don’t read the fine print, you will probably be pay. No one to blame but yourself.
Jeremy is a good man. AND a mormon. What the hell does his religion have to do with ANYTHING? Get a life people.
LOSER!! ::   -20
[Reply]

Mr. Bigglesworth Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
@Stacy, Are you Jeremy’s mommy or his defense attorney? Religion has a lot to do with some things, especially when churches protect their own douchebags. Lots of Mormons are mentioned on this blog…wonder why? (Actually, I don’t.) Oh, and another thing, “Stacy”: go fuck your propagandist self.
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 12:13 am
@Stacy ::
The FTC has NO base for their accusations against this man. They even admitted that straight to his face.
Oh really?
DO TELL US MORE … I’m sure we’re all quite interested.
[Reply]

Kann Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Stacy, The FTC really has no base for anything that’s ever featured on this blog. For this particular guy, I have no idea…but, this blog primary consists of SD and peasants who whine about other people who are selling something. Just because you don’t find value in paying $1,997 in a digital course doesn’t mean someone else will. The market has to decide, not the FTC, and especially not this blog (no, this blog is not the market). If you’ve ever looked at the FTC laws, you’ll see that 99% of these product launches or whatever Salty cries about are not breaking any laws. Is is ethical?..depends on what the product contains, and if it’s actionable and backed by proof.
Now, if you want to talk about guys who are dinging credit cards without notice or not stating explicitly in the terms of the agreement…that’s pretty obvious scamming/stealing, and completely different from selling a product. There’s lots of factors involved, so I urge each and every one of you to take what you read here at face value (!!!) and do your own research.
“It is a doomed enterprise and the internet has a long memory. Once you are known you can’t erase your tracks. If you pursue a crusade – no matter how noble – using inflammatory tactics, sailor language, appealing to base emotions, stifling reasoned debate, banishing your critics and allow your sycophants to massage your ego you will eventually find yourself preaching to the choir and only the choir.”
You people are the choir. Wake up.
LOSER!! ::   -11
[Reply]

Bullshit Detector Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Poor “Kann.” He hates the fact that there is justice in the world, because he’s big on situational ethics and operates in the shadows.
“The market has to decide, not the FTC…”
Actually, the market (which consists of THE PEOPLE) installed the FTC to help serve as their collective JUSTICE mechanism. So the FTC does, in fact, serve as a voice of the people.
Talking to “Kann” about ethics and honesty, however, is about as useless as trying to convince a serial killer that “one’s enough.”
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 11:59 am
@Kann, It seems the choir is growing, Pat. (Oops, Fraudian slip. I mean “Kann.”) Among those “inflammatory tactics” and “sailor language” are real substance and actual useful information. This information is making waves far beyond “the choir.” It has even influenced the marketing tactics of the hustledorks. They are paying attention.
As far as I’m concerned the issues that are discussed here go beyond FTC, FCC, FDA, IRS, or any other lettered gov’ment agency. Moreover, I don’t like the idea of all of us becoming tattletales whose chief goal in life is to rat out all of our neighbors to The Authorities. That’s a chilling direction we don’t want to take. However, in some cases those agencies might provide some recourse for our neighbors who have been scammed.
Even so, whether something is an FTC issue or not has never been paramount for me. KannPat is correct to a certain degree in that value is in the eye of the beholder. But there are too many folks who have been taken for a ride by all of the explicit and implicit promises that they can become wealthy and happy by giving a huckster $1997. This blog, sailor language and all, provides a more realistic perspective and a truer picture of the real “value” of these scams.
I think it is shortsighted at best to confuse the Droid’s style (and those of his participants) with the substance, or to underestimate the effects.
  +6
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
@Cosmic Connie, who cares about “perceived value” if the “perceived value” is marketed through fake, scam-ridden, fake social proof, fake scarcity, fake testimonials, grandma-targeting marketing?
  +2
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 11:35 am
@Jack, I happen to agree with you about the sleaze-ball marketing tactics. The hustledorks should be called out on those whenever possible. (See my sentence following the one about perceived value.) I only said Kann was correct to a certain degree about value being in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps I was giving him too much benefit of the doubt regarding the real meaning of his remarks, but in my own remark I was attempting to make a more general point. And the point is that many people do derive some (subjective) value from some self-help info-products — some degree of hope or inspiration, perhaps, or maybe even a practical idea or two. I can recognize and respect that some people might take sustenance from works that you or I might find to be simplistic or ludicrous.
Even so, I think most of us here are in agreement that the high-priced frauducts/flopportunities are generally a waste of money and time, a lesson that all too many people have learned the hard way. Even if they’re not necessarily FTC issues, they deserve to be exposed, which is what Salty and friends are doing in this forum.
  0
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 2:25 am
@Cosmic Connie,
It’s often easier for people to convince themselves that they’ve gotten some value out of a ‘course’ than to admit they’ve been scammed to the tune of thousands of dollars they didn’t have. Scammers know this– and actively discuss putting a high price on to make it harder for people to pull the plug on their disastrous ‘investment’. And they pile on the ‘bonuses’- often sending people huge numbers of cd’s with interviews, recordings of seminar sessions, badly thought-out worksheets- sometimes even some decently written, reasonable-sounding stuff that they’ve picked up rights to for next to nothing. Faced with a huge volume of junk very few people are going to actually wade through it all– making it even easier for them to convince themselves- or be convinced- that they ‘didn’t follow the program’.
Ironic that so many are sucked in on the promise that ANYONE can do this in their spare time, a few minutes a day- and then so readily blame themselves for failure because “of course you can’t get anywhere without hard work.”
  +2

Chris Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 3:20 am
@wanderlost
I think you have described it well. I was one of those people in the past. Getting bombarded with all that crap to read and videos to watch, instead of getting the hands on help by someone who actually knew how to succeed sucked. If only I had realised this sooner. It was so deflating and uninspiring and I probably have shitloads of digital crap and ebooks on my computer as a result of buying crap house information/internet marketing products. Once I stopped buying them I felt liberated. If only I had come across these types of observations before I wasted hard earned money on stuff that was too good to be true and not only that, stuff that just adds to clutter on your computer and doesn’t really help me anyway. There are too many hyped up ebooks and videos out there that pretend to reveal something to get you on their list without actually doing so.
  +4

Cosmic Connie Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Wanderlost, You wrote: “It’s often easier for people to convince themselves that they’ve gotten some value out of a ‘course’ than to admit they’ve been scammed to the tune of thousands of dollars they didn’t have.”
No argument there. It’s sometimes very hard for folks to admit they’ve been scammed, especially if they have a lot of money and time — not to mention their own credibility — invested in the scam. (Especially lacking in credibility are those who offer over-the-top video “testimonials” when they’re fresh out of an event — long before the high has time to wear off.)
I understand the points that are being made here. Again, however, I was speaking in general terms, and what I had in mind were people who find an inspirational passage in a self-help book, or who get an idea or two from listening to a (reasonably priced) audio product. I’ve made fun of Marianne Williamson, for example, but have enjoyed the poetry in some of her writing. There, I said it. To me that’s a benefit, even though it falls under the category of entertainment.
Why is it so hard to accept that some people might actually get some transitory benefit like that from legitimately sold — and reasonably priced — products? That’s all I’m saying. I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate, nor to excuse the extravagant wrongdoing by any of the spruikers mentioned here. In my conceding to Kann on one (very) small point, I was merely acknowledging that it’s not all black or white.
  +1

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
@Kann, How come http://www.seomoz.org only charges $99/month for software and tools that are a gazillion-bazillion-mazillion times more sophisticated than the guru-onomous offerings – or is it because they don’t have the grandma-whos-clueless-about-online-marketing-who-wants-to-have-a-fake-biz-in-a-box market-so-I-guess-2-thousand-dollars-could-be-ok-even-if-i-have-to-max-out-my-credit-cards-and-mortgage-my-house target market?
  +2
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
@Kann, I agree with everything you say except for when you say things.
  +5
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 2:39 am
@Kann, I guess you haven’t been scammed before? Must be nice being you in your ivory tower. Look into St George based training companies and the complaints associated with them from victims online and see if that doesn’t give you the reality check and adjustment you really need.
  +2
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@Stacy, Looooookkiiiee at all these other companies who said people “did NOT read what thhey signed up for”…
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/07/shortchange.shtm
http://www.ftc.gov/os/2010/02/100217bottomdollaractions.pdf
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/08/acaicolon.shtm
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/03/creditcouncel.shtm
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/04/alcoholism.shtm
Oh, those stupid, stupid, people who did not read the hidden TOS…
http://www.benedelman.org/posttransaction/
A May 2010 Supplemental Staff Report explores post-transaction marketeters’ efforts to avoid providing refunds — including scripts to minimize the amount of money returned to consumers, denying refunds unless consumers used specific words in making their demands, and intentionally failing to notify consumers with multiple memberships (even when a consumer called to complain about one such membership
http://commerce.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=439184c5-0965-4bb9-aa98-4a114b00a42e
Oh those stupid, stupid, stupid consumers who allow themselves to fall for the scams of the pro-scammers. Stupid, stupid, people!
  +6
[Reply]

scammed Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
@Jack,
Wow–that phony alcoholism cure company really takes the cake. Actually reporting people’s alcoholism who want to get out of their program to other credit agencies and businesses they have accounts with? Nasty.
  +4
[Reply]

Sir Lancelot Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
@scammed, Holy crap was that one a farce. They offered a “Heavy Drinker Program” and a “Very Heavy Drinker Program.” Seriously, those distinctions sound like something from Monty Python! What a racket.
  +4
[Reply]

scammed Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@Sir Lancelot,
Oh, shoot! I was pissed, and now you made me laugh with the Monty Python visual. Thanks a lot.
  0
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 1:24 am
@Stacy, Funny how a lot of those Mormons in St George, Utah have such a penchant for scamming lots of ordinary people who simply want to succeed online isn’t it? I speak from experience and am familiar with their smoke and mirrors tactics and how what they promise is worlds apart from what they actually provide. These guys need to be put out of business plain and simple.
  +4
[Reply]
# 14 January 2011 at 6:13 pm

Juice said:
Religion is the whole deal. Belief System.
Beliefs > Values. Fucked Beliefs = Fucked Values.
You can have that for free!
  +3
[Reply]
# 14 January 2011 at 7:19 pm

Stacy said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
haha you guys are so pathetic. It makes my day to see you so heated over a man you don’t even know… keep talking, it’s making my day. :)
LOSER!! ::   -10
[Reply]

Frank Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
@Stacy, You jabber like a fool, but you never provide any concrete info. Tell us some specifics about your pal/neighbor/relative Jeremy. Not just generalities and spin. Justify your b.s. with specific details. Give us some verifiable FACTS. Oh, wait, you don’t have any…
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Clark Reply:
January 15th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
@Stacy,
Damn, I usually try not to lump “trolls” together, but did you ever notice that next to everybody follows a similar sequence when posting on sites they don’t like (and on which they aren’t liked)?
First: The badly prepared argument (Johnson never did anything wrong, and I know that because I’m him…er, because I said so)
Second: The faked entertainment (Haha, just keep hating, I’m just posting here because you’re so funny)
We’ve had 1&2, next should be:
Third: The release of anger (WELL YOU ASSES JUST KEEP ON TRYING TO BRING IWORKS DOWN WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP WE MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU EVER WILL)
Fourth: The enlightened lurking (Yeah, you guys just don’t see it. These people make so much money because they deserve it, and you just have to deal with it. Someday you’ll wake up)
Fun fact about this: Everybody following the four stages thinks of themselves as original, but nobody ever is.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Bored of Regents Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 1:49 am
@Clark, You’ve nailed the algorithm!
  +5
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 11:41 am
@Clark, Spot-on. All of this stuff seems to be taken from the huckster playbook, although the sequence of those four stages you mentioned sometimes varies.
Other common plays involve trying to divert attention from one’s own misdeeds by (1) kissing up to the critic (a la Andy Jenkins); and/or (2) pointing out the foibles of an even badder bad guy (again, a la Andy Jenkins, and Irwin too, of course). As @chris wrote in a comment to SD’s October 2009 post, “Emailing with the enemy,” “When the going gets tough, the tough throw their partner under the bus… or their mother.. or anyone within reach (as long as it deflects attention).”
Then there’s the conspicuous-altruism play: Get media coverage of yourself doing good deeds. If you can get mainstream media coverage, like Johnson did, that’s really a coup. As with the tactics mentioned above, this ploy seems to be popular among those who wish to remove the focus from their wrongdoing. (Not that I’m implying that all who do good deeds have nefarious motives, nor am I suggesting that even the nefarious ones are lacking in compassion, but let’s face it: hustledorks love to play that altruism card when their feet are being held to the fire.)
Even if you can’t manage to get dramatic footage of yourself in the midst of weeping and wailing Third-World victims, you can always do something simple and nearly risk-free, such as dreaming up an advocacy organization –perhaps a non-prof, perhaps not — and parking it on the Net. Then all you have to to do is publicize the hell out of it in order to make it appear that you are “making a difference” or “giving back.”
Regarding number 1 and 2 above — kissing up to critics and tattling on their colleagues to those critics — I should note that some of the classic New-Wage hustledorks who preach love and light and positivity tend to ignore the critics altogether, at least publicly. But apparently some try to infiltrate the critical forums anyway (or, more likely, they send one of their minions to do so). And while they don’t publicly rat out their fellows either, there seems to be a lot of backstabbing going on in private.
It’s all pretty predictable.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

scammed Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
Your comment reminded me of Vitale’s old claim from 2008 that he was going to end homelessness with Operation YES. Hadn’t (surprise!) heard anything about that for awhile. Found this from just last August, tho:
“One of the things I’ve created is a movement called Operation Yes, and Operation Yes is a movement to end homelessness in America. And it seems like a big, wild, preposterous idea, yet I believe it’s possible, and I’ve already implemented it. I’ve got a team together. We’ve got a website up at operationyes.com. We’re working on a book for Operation Yes. I’ve got people ready to do a seminar with me on Operation Yes. I’ve got media lined up. I’ve got CNN that’s already been filming me about homelessness and ending homelessness. I’m working with another partner who’s already ending poverty in America.”
Ugh.
  +2
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
@Clark, You forgot – “it’s the people’s fault because they want us to scam them with fake promises” (and someone has to do it).
  +2
[Reply]
# 15 January 2011 at 11:58 am

Jack said:
So all these people can be the CNN heros now:
Jesse Willms – self-proclaimed philanthropist and star of these and many other pages:
http://www.webcops.net/just_think_media_spam_scams_8001.html
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10633094/dazzlesmile-sues-epic-advertising-and-jesse-willms.html
Mark Jenney – famous in the Ohio state place here:
http://www.cleveland.com/consumeraffairs/index.ssf/2010/09/ohio_attorney_general_sues_thr_1.html
so he will care to get charity money here:
http://www.markjenneycares.com/ because Clevand told me that:
“Jenney posted on a blog that he is retiring from internet marketing and turning his efforts to charity.”
I see people like to retire from internet marketing sometimes when ftc and ag people start making fun of their businesses seomtimes.
  +5
[Reply]
# 15 January 2011 at 11:50 pm

Chris Tomasolu said:
@Jack,
Ouch Christopher Tomasulo, OUCH
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/05/rescue.shtm
“The settlements with Christopher Tomasulo and Bonnie Werner (formerly Bonnie A. Harris) resolve these charges and impose judgments of $2,791,040.40 each, which will be suspended based on their inability to pay. The full judgments against them will become due immediately if they are found to have misrepresented their financial condition. The settlements also resolve charges that Tomasulo’s and Werner’s conduct was in contempt of orders entered against them in an earlier case brought by the Commission, FTC v. Bay Area Business Council, Inc. Those orders prohibit them from marketing credit-related products to consumers and ban Werner from telemarketing.”
  +5
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 11:53 am
@Chris Tomasolu, but I don’t want him to leave if he will tell us more details about how the scams work right?
I can’t trust him right now yet for until I can learn more about him, but it can be good to learn so much from him.
  +4
[Reply]

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 3:31 am
@Jack,
If you want Christopher Tomasulo to jump on command. Insult his religion: NLP. Duff will come around too and you’ll have plenty of entertainment for days on end.
  +4
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
January 21st, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@Jimmy Ray,
Hi Jimmy. I’m not willing to argue with you any more on these comments, as I said on the previous thread, because you seem to be acting in bad faith.
However, I would be willing to hear out your argument against NLP if you’re willing to talk with me on the phone sometime. I think we probably largely are in agreement here. For instance, I am also skeptical of Mr. Tomasulo now that we know of his background. Perhaps he’s “changed,” but I still maintain skepticism.
In any case, I won’t be engaging with you in comments anymore because it’s not productive. If you want to chat sometime, you can find my email contact info on Beyond Growth.
Take care,
~Duff
  +1
[Reply]

Jimmy Ray Reply:
January 21st, 2011 at 5:47 pm
@Duff,
You believe what you want. Me acting on “bad faith” because I am opposed to a “technology” that a good majority of the peddlers use to scam people, and the rest – like you – just parrot around as a change work technology not able to cite one decent study towards it’s effectiveness.
Sure, whatever.
Then apologizing for Bandler’s behavior, and making mind reads on my motives, are just in poor taste and, again, violate the code of your religion.
If you didn’t want to engage on my comments, you should have just followed through the first time you said you wouldn’t.
Would have been more congruent for you to do so.
  -2
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 3:37 am
@Jack, Me either. He can redeem himself by helping victims who have been scammed by these con artists. Just had a look at the site that outlines the court ruling/judgement (thanks jack).
@Christopher: you can help me nail a Utah based training company that used deceptive and fraudulent conduct and as a result caused me losses. Your inside knowledge can go someway to bringing these aholes to justice. Your testimony could strengthen the complaint I am about to file with the FTC.
  +3
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@Chris,
So now I will just get back to track on looking up about iWorks for myself, because mr. C doesn’t know how it all works or porbably won’t really tell us anything really anyhow -
- because I thought about it more and don’t think mr. C can help because I made a logic puzzle from what he said:
#1) mr. C didn’t know he was involved in scams = mr. C doesn’t know what scams can look like.
#2) mr. C did know he was involved in scams and can tell us he was not involved in scams = mr. C isn’t telling the truth about if he understands/knows scams (the “#1″ above).
#3) if mr. C isn’t telling some truth about if he understands/knows scams then he could maybe tell us about how the scams work, but then he would have to tell us that he did know about the scams he was in from the FTC press release which would mess up #1) for him.
Or the puzzle could be broken if mr. C says he didn’t know they were scams until the fTC did their lawsuit operation which maybe he is saying but still can’t make sense to me because I think even I could know if I was doing scams or not and i’m not even Sherlock Holmes I found out before from when mr. C. told me about me being like Sherlock Holmes (which isn’t really true either there).
  +2
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
@Jack, from what I have read on Doc Sulo and his comments here, he is not fooling me. It bothered me how he basically put the blame for the scammers’ actions on the victims. I refuse to accept such lame apologetics as he has tried to get us to go along with. He thinks we are idiots.
I agree with your analysis. He is being rather fuzzy and I agree that he won’t help the real victims. It is a shame because it is his chance to redeem himself for his misconduct in the past and actually do some good. Instead he prefers brushing it all off as a press release and refusing to accept his responsibility as per what the judgement stated. He doesn’t seem to feel remorse at all. People are good at absolving themselves of misconduct and are able to deny their role in a scam or misdeed.
As for your points methinks he knows what he was involved in but had too much invested in it, or simply didn’t have an ethical problem with what he was involved in. I wouldn’t trust this individual or what he claims on here. He has no credibility as far as I am concerned.
  +4
[Reply]
# 16 January 2011 at 6:32 am

Jennifer said:
Jeremy’s trip to Haiti is just about as moving as Sarah Palin’s trip, during which she actually TOUCHED some black people (while twitching as if she was afraid their poverty, suffering, and misery might be contagious.)
I HATE it when exploiters do these press events to show how generous they are. Bleah.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@Jennifer, Tomorrow, Dr. Martin Luther King day, can be Jeremy and Sarah’s day to truly shine as white people.
  +3
[Reply]

Dr. E. Q. Walnutter Reply:
January 16th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Jennifer, Thanks for the “twitch analysis,” Jennifer. Is that similar to palmistry, and have you been published in any scientific journals, such as the Huffington Post? If you also know anything about trembling as a personality/behavioral indicator (as opposed to a standard cold weather indicator), please do share.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]
# 16 January 2011 at 1:15 pm

Trampolines said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
In what universe, trampoline is as important as Lamborghinis. Or in other words, Lamborghinis is as cheap indoor trampoline. I will buy hips and sell them in the real work, then I become the billionaire without god’s help.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Billy Ray Wampum Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 12:16 am
Five more beers and that could make sense.
  +6
[Reply]

Spam Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
@Billy Ray Wampum,
This is spam dude.
  -1
[Reply]

Billy Ray Wampum Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
@Spam, I know, but 5 more beers and it still could make sense.
  +6
[Reply]
# 16 January 2011 at 11:28 pm

Sam the Shrubbist said:
“Industry” officially became the Utah State Motto on March 4, l959.
By “Industry,” they of course mean, “scamming.”
  +6
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
January 17th, 2011 at 2:41 am
@Sam the Shrubbist, Damn right there. One only needs to look into the dubious activities of Achieve Technologies and Wealth Plaza plus the myriad of other Utah based scammers to back that statement up. I for the life of me can’t fathom how these companies get off scot free. It is disgraceful and a sad indictment on the authorities in the US.
  +4
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
January 18th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
@Sam the Shrubbist, Can you tell us about 1959? Why?
  +1
[Reply]

Sam the Shrubbist Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 1:51 am
@Jack, I’m guessing that “industry” (aka scamming) was just the official “state hobby” until Utah finally got it down to a science in 1959, when the last of the honest residents passed away and had their remains sold by telemarketers for fertilizer on a continuity plan. Also, the date and motto are listed in Wikipedia.
  +4
[Reply]
# 17 January 2011 at 1:53 am

Zippy the Pinhead said:
Want to eavesdrop on some typical Mormon chat? Behold:
http://artoftrolling.memebase.com/2011/01/15/mormon-troll-umpire-mormon/
  0
[Reply]
# 17 January 2011 at 8:56 pm

St Geoge resident said:
I can’t believe this isn’t making national headlines. These guys have been screwing people for years and been able to buy their way out of lawsuits with numerous federal agencies (Shirtlef) they are notg but crooks. And this latest Haiti trip was nothing more than a publicity stunt (hey look how good I can do with all the money I have STOLEN) He was probably just hiding money out of the country while he was gone. Good news is they seized all his assets this week with the exeption of his 6 million dollar house and his cars (they should have taken that too) Nice going Robin Hoodlum!!!
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 19 January 2011 at 2:49 am

bohica said:
I don’t understand how your Frank Kern Christmas Special video violated YouTube’s TOS, but it’s gone nonetheless.
Regardless, this little document should serve as a warning to Mike Koenigs if he’s still thinking the FTC are a bunch of pussycats who send warning notices on fancy & colorful stationary before seizing everything you have.
Pussycats they are not.
…just sayin’.
  +6
[Reply]

Booger Reply:
January 20th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@bohica, whoa. Nice find on the FTC documents.
  +1
[Reply]
# 20 January 2011 at 10:07 am
» Mark Shurtleff :: Attorney General of MLM said:
[...] Fraudulent five figure “coaching” and “mentoring” upsells are a key component in most of the “best” scam operations. Don’t leave money on the table :: as evidenced by your victims still having money to put food {or anything else} on their tables. Take them for everything the credit card companies say they’re worth :: then build yourself an indoor trampoline and some motherfucking porticos. [...]
  +4
# 20 January 2011 at 11:07 am

Chaps said:
Funny to see defenders of Jeremy trailing various stories on the web.
What I want to know, (according to a lawsuit filed against JJ) is how he sleeps at night after scamming a “Las Vegas partner”..?
Seems the greed took hold and all caution was thrown to the wind. I would recommend he watch a few episodes of CSI Las Vegas.
  0
[Reply]
# 25 January 2011 at 8:20 am

CSI-Ebbie said:
Did he compare himself to Jesus??? ***Throws up***
But Hot diggety Dog Redemption! http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51088501-76/johnson-companies-card-consumers.html.csp
  0
[Reply]
# 5 April 2011 at 11:43 am

Religious Ties said:
I think we should name the religion of everyone online. Why do you never hear of Baptist murderer’s, or Catholic scam artists? Why is identifying the religion of the crook only important when it’s a Mormon?
There are crooks and people who don’t live up to higher standards who were raised in every different religion out there, and in every state,… not just “Utah”. The religious Bigots in this discussion are easily transparent.
  -2
[Reply]
# 7 April 2011 at 11:39 pm

Shaun said:
Hey Salty, Jeremy Johnson has apparently left America and is living in Costa Rica with his family. My friend’s brother is friends with this dirt bag and this is how i know this.
Jeremy new this day was coming for a long time and always had a escape plan. He has money and gold buried in places so the feds cant touch it.
  +2
[Reply]
# 26 April 2011 at 10:04 am
» Evil FTC dot Gov said:
[...] at the FTC thought The Ginger Queen was doing it wrong :: and so did the US Attorney. After JJ was sued :: he was arrested while attempting to flee the country with a box full of money that he needed for [...]
  +1
# 7 December 2011 at 6:51 am
» Fake Robotic Declarations said:
[...] Maybe you :: good little reader and/or bad little scammer :: read my article about Jeremy Johnson’s stupid bullshit. [...]
  0
# 16 March 2012 at 12:14 am

Marz said:
better not give the little people knives
some are getting wise
best to keep on them your eyes
lest u find a knife in ur back and u dies.
  0
[Reply]
# 8 April 2013 at 5:57 pm

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