Frank Kern Underachieving

home made unicorns

An anonymous citizen sent me a video :: thank you citizen. I fixed it up a bit :: made it shorter :: and added the d-bag theme song … but it was otherwise not my handy work.

Irwin F. Kern speaking at he and Ed Dale’s “Underachiever” seminar in the loathsome and marsupial bespeckled land of Australia :: circa 2004.

Irwin explains how he got started in Internet Marketing. It’s an inspirational story … like the virgin birth. Except replace the virgin with a dead hooker … and replace the baby Jesus with the rights to reprint a Yanik Silver e-book.

According to Irwin :: Frank hadn’t made a penny online before he put up the Instant Internet Empires site in 2001.  The archive of the site can be found here {sometimes}. In spite of Irwin’s complete lack of success :: Frank starts the sales letter off with a six figure income claim {and a hideous grammar error!} …

… and ends with an FTC action.

“Instant Internet Empires” touted the money-making potential of five pre-packaged Internet businesses, promising that buyers could make more than $115,000 a year using the product. According to the FTC, for their $47.77 investment, consumers received the right to reproduce the defendants’ Web site and the right to try to resell its contents to other consumers. The FTC alleged that to achieve the promised $115,000 in earnings, consumers each would have to sell the product to 2,400 additional consumers, who would each need to sell to 2,400 additional consumers to achieve the same earnings, and so on. According to the FTC, by the third generation of the scheme, participants would need to make a total of 13,829,760,000 sales, more than twice the earth’s population, for each of them to achieve the advertised earnings.

Frank didn’t make four figures online until he started lying about making six.

>> bleep bleep

155 thoughts on “Frank Kern Underachieving”

    1. @Dimitri,

      People are so blinded by Frank Kern and Ed Dale’s lies. I have bought products from them, and while their ideas seemed “good” on the surface, once I started implementing them, I realized that everything I paid for was just theory, and it didn’t work.

      Watching these videos Salty posted and reading through all the evidence and comments, I now know that I fell for an elaborate scam. These hucksters just grow more and more confident with each scam they make, and the worst part is that people blame themselves when the products they buy don’t deliver on the promises made.

      The phrase “fake it till you make it” comes to mind, but Frank has taken it to a whole new level.

      1. @nerdsrus,

        I thought Frank Kern’s products were too expensive to be worthwhile, and I have only purchased subscription services and products from his partner in crime, Ed Dale.

        Ed Dale claims to have a “lab” of people testing various internet marketing methods to help him provide cutting edge information to his paying customers. So far no “lab” members have been mentioned by name.

        His “lab” occasionally produces a workable idea, but I suspect that this lab consists of naive customers who have confided in Ed Dale their successful internet marketing techniques. I recall one video where Ed mentioned a niche that someone I know told him about, and he said he would keep the information confidential!

        The rest of his teachings are advertisements for services with affiliate links, or pdfs explaining why we should pay attention to a future teaching he is going to make, but these hyped up teachings mostly do not materialise, or fizzle out without conclusion.

        For example, his Immediate Edge program contains a lot of half completed projects, drip fed over months, and experiments that go nowhere. Its also puffed up with guru interviews that invariably end with a product pitch, and the forums are left unattended for weeks.

        The plugins and software given as part of the subscription do not work, and the “networker” was a tool that was supposed to give us backlinks to our sites, but didn’t work. I now realize it was a way for Ed Dale to spy on our niche markets, so see what’s working for his paying customers / lab rats / victims.

        Customer support is done by “interns” who are just customers who have failed to make his techniques work, and have been duped into working for free in exchange for learning what its like to run a successful business. To date, no intern has shown any financial success as a result of working for Ed for free.

        It is worth noting that interns are not automatically entitled to free attendance to Ed Dale’s events, and on more than one occasion an intern has announced being unable to go to an event because he or she could not afford it, proving that they do not have profitable internet businesses as a result of giving Ed Dale their free labor.

        1. @Stone Colloni, This is my experience of Ed Dale as well. I was in his Ultra Underacheiver membership program ($297 a month). He and FK were gifted at raising expectations and making promises during their launch, but post launch when the program “began” it seemed their attention drifted elsewhere.

          About two months into the “programs” Ed Dale began demonstrating a preternatural ability for making excuses about why the vaunted “Smackdown” wasn’t taking place, but somehow making it sound like it was our fault! :) I hadn’t experienced a head-rogering like that for quite some time.

          He’s clearly a manipulator. The endless promising and dragging out delivering seems to be his specialty.

      2. @nerdsrus, and co

        The point being made here is that some internet marketers *allegedly* make false income claims in their marketing materials. It is not a judgement on the quality or effectiveness of said materials so please dont use this as a forum to whine that your unwilling or unable to implement what youve learnt.

        My dealings with Ed Dale and co have been fair and reasonable and I have enjoyed his content alot and have no problem with the way he does business. Ed Dale and Frank Kern are two separate people with separate business interests so dont judge them the same.

        1. @Macboy ::

          1. There’s nothing “allegedly” about the false income claims … those are obvious … and constantly confessed to in public places.

          2. You don’t know the point being made here.

          3. This is a GREAT forum to complain about useless info products and the disappointing idiots who sell them … no matter your level of “implementation”. Hows about you don’t use this as a forum to tell people how to use this as a forum.

          1. @SD,

            Saying stupid shit as usual. Hey guys maybe Salty Douche thinks that if he uses numbers to make his points, they will seem much more official. I know the syndicate does this same tactic…

            1. There’s nothing “allegedly” about the false income claims … those are obvious … and constantly confessed to in public places.

            Another blanket statement from the Salty Dick.

            2. You don’t know the point being made here.

            Neither do you Salty Duck.

            3. This is a GREAT forum to complain about useless info products and the disappointing idiots who sell them … no matter your level of “implementation”. Hows about you don’t use this as a forum to tell people how to use this as a forum.

            That’s right. Let the master hypocrite say his piece. Keep the contradictions coming Salty Diaper!

        2. @Macboy,

          It’s interesting you said that you “enjoyed” the materials. So you didn’t profit from them, but you’re berating those who complain they didn’t? Sad…

          Any one who doesn’t believe that Ed Dale is part of the syndicate should view these photos:

          He even takes vacations with syndicate members!

        3. @Macboy, Wasnt the same thing said in about 2007 about that Schirmer guy from Australia. Someone piped up and said that they had been to his seminars and actually liked some of this stuff. Well thats not the point although it seems that many have questioned it and even their own securities commission found the guy to be a deceitful bastard. He likely couldnt prove he was actually using anything that he was flogging off to the public for exhorbitant prices let alone operate with any kind of ethic. These guys have got to the point of making such deluded claims that influence people into believing their shit and they offer very little honest proof. Its dangerous stuff and no matter how they try to justify it, it will never be the “right” thing to do.

          1. @AJ, be patient my friend and keep watching the news something biblical in the physical world is about to happen!!
            We found stuff these mother fuckers won’t believe their eyes once published… but the end will be a surprise, the best party fireworks you’d ever see…
            nothing you might have seen in africa or korea before…

    2. @Dimitri, why not?

      You won’t make one million dollars in dog training niche by having one blog – me and my dog – but if you do business, real business, you can earn a lot.

      Are you claiming that dog training niche is worth less than one million dollars a year?

      1. FYI, “Skepdick” is a troll using an anonymous proxy in Zaire who repeatedly comes here to promote scammer worship.

        He’s not interested in the truth, he’s just wanting to blow smoke.

  1. Holy crap the guy can’t even keep his lies straight. Yea well it’s easier to tell the truth, Irwin. Ever thought of that? Course not.

    Salty I love ya, but I don’t think Kern cares, he is way too confident in himself. He is so cocky he puts it all in the open, because he truly believes that people are stupid. I think the “dog” training is meant to be a metaphor for his customers.

    1. @Christian Blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing,

      What a great metaphor, it never occurred to me— Frank has certainly trained his suckers well. They obediently buy at his command and slavishly lavish praise on his every derivative offering.

      But the maths, the maths nail it every time, only three generations to blow that con game out of the water.

  2. If there’s any truth to the $115K number, it might have been revenue, not profits. That’s a common way for them to lie about success: to throw around revenue numbers as if they were profit.

    Or, he might have just made it up. It’s a lie either way.

  3. Someone commented yesterday with the above info that salty has in quote, in regards to Frank Kern’s Under Achiever thing. I was going to post beneath that comment; “I feel like I am going to puke” which was how I felt. It made me sick.

    Life got in the way of commenting, and then behold, today Salty quotes it today. What would have happened if I were to comment with how I felt?

    a. Thumbs down
    b. Followed by more thumbs down
    c. followed by – Karin is a lunatic and likes blowing Frank.

    To the person who commented in regards to my wanting to slit my throat, I do appreciate your concern and the number to the hot line. Perhaps someone here will benefit from your posting that number. It was sarcastic, as I really don’t care if the Survivor Manual (Angela Shelton) stops following me on twitter.
    (Given my history though, I suppose it wasn’t something to kid about) I apologize.

    Another poster wrote to the effect of how Salty really ought to be careful, that a James Ray “accident” could very well happen here.
    Someone with little self esteem could become devastated by something so stupid as repeated “thumbs down” and be the “loser” (this isn’t the exact quote of that commenter, however that it was I got out of it)

    It had a few good points in it. Again, I didn’t reply, not because I was afraid of the dreaded thumbs down or the backlash I would have received for agreeing with the commenter, it was because I simply had something better to do at the time.

    What would happen if someone (God forbid) did do something to harm themselves because they were not “accepted” on this blog? Who would take responsibility?
    Oh, you say- “Well, she was a lunatic to begin with?” She/he was suicidal anyway… or “it’s not Salty’s fault, or others here who support everything he says-?”

    The fact of the matter is- If ole’ Salty boy said ” Lay off of Karin, or Joe Blow” he would receive a “Sorry Salty” and with his support or approval, (acknowledgment of the comment in a positive way) then everyone would give the thumbs up, and also approve or acknowledge the comment in a positive way.

    Now, naturally this comment will get the “minus” and the thumbs button will be hit by many, most likely without reading the comment… they see my name and pick and it’s immediately voted down.

    Do I care? No, I don’t.
    It did hurt me that Salty and I were no longer friends…yes, I considered him a friend- and from a Kilstein post or two a while back it was obvious he too, consider me a friend- or it was simply an opportunity to let others know that “I wasn’t the droid” and that post would confirm that- that post would “take care of that little rumor or question as to if I indeed was the droid” (a while ago, there were many people in question as to who the droid was) no names need to be mentioned-

    People were, and still are sending me shit. Information etc. on all kinds of crap…”insider stuff” (mostly garbage) some still believe that I have a connection with Salty and that I will share the info with him.
    Thing is, I keep the info now, and collect my own data, evidence or whatever bullshit you want to call it.

    My email in box is full of support from those who fear supporting me in public, especially here… because they even can’t accept being voted down or attacked for supporting. (Even though they post under different names/ handles or anonymously)

    Is this just some “silly” blog as the droid posted on his wailing wall a while ago? yes, it is, for some…for many it’s pretty fucking serious. There is much more that I have to say and share on this topic. It won’t be done here… I will post it on my own blog.

    I like this blog, did from day one. I find it entertaining, and educational…very enlightening. I especially like some of the comments, and the people who comment.
    It is thought provoking, which I personally enjoy.

      1. @Christian Blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing, You are right, and I apologized. it isn’t funny at all.

    1. This blog’s most narcissistic commenter has returned, again.

      The long winded “me” posts should be sponsored by a pharmaceutical company, especially given they almost always attempt to change a topic to the commenter’s own random personal interests of the moment.

      Observe that she is following up on a comment from YESTERDAY by responding under a totally different post TODAY. (For maximum attention-getting exposure.)

      Let’s not feed the self-absorbed narcissist, please. Note that SD does not engage with it for a reason.

      1. @Karin Hiebert, Observe~ I was commenting on the blog post of “the day” which included the quoting of the commenter, which Salty has commented on today, about yesterday, today…

        ~get it???

        I didn’t think so, but it’s nice to know that I was right again about the lame ass comment voting- which really makes a bad “impression” on those coming here for the first time or two… people are confused enough.

        ~ move on…nothing going on around here folks…just another “hidden comment” in a day or 2… if I am lucky.
        Then I get to be right again. Ha!

  4. This is the STANDARD story for every ‘major guru’ online. NONE of them start in any ‘consumer’ niches and all of them start making money by selling crap to other unicorn turd seekers.

    Watch this:
    (this is the ONLY guy I follow when it comes to online money kinda stuff — and no, I don’t want you to buy anything from him either – just has good free content)

    — This is Tellman Knudson — I posted this a while ago when this first came out — but Tellman pretty much in his own words says the same thing – didn’t make money, so started teaching people how to make money online.

    1. @advancedNoob, every time you link to that site (pretty much every time you show up) I get a bad reaction… they’re playing the “outsider” story but the home page is just another slick pitch full of promises of push-button wealth:

      1. @Unicorn Army, I have mixed feelings as well. On the other hand, as a standalone message, the specific presentations he’s linked to have certainly driven home the points discussed here. This one sure did. And there is no pitch unless you root around elsewhere on the site, which is not necessary.

        1. @bob, Yeah… I suppose we must accept that sometimes important info is found in strange places. Thank you.

        2. @bob, I watched the video, and did not look at any other part of the website. It’s consistent with what others are saying on this website about “gurus” being unable to lie straight.

          The video demonstrates yet another “guru” admitting to failing in making money online, then making a fortune on teaching others how to make money online. Tellman has obviously gotten to a point where he’s forgotten that he’s built his empire on lies, and now insults his readers’ intelligence by freely admitting that he’s profited from them through lies.

          The thought of not having to go into work every day, not having a boss, and making lots of money in your underwear is so seductive. The “gurus” hook into people’s desires with their hypnotic language and NLP techniques and get rich by selling dreams that they’re unable to make true.

          They also play in people’s insecurities, too, by sending a message that it’s impossible to make money online the “easy way” without this shiny new product. How many times have you heard the message “sure, you can do this yourself, but it is very difficult, risky, and will take you a lot of time, but I have a solution that will make it a breeze! Buy Now! This Offer Is Going To Be Taken Off The Market! Over 5,000 People Have Commented On My Blog! Don’t Miss Out!”

          Worst of all, the vast majority of their customers DON’T have $2,000 in their savings account to waste on info frauducts, and go into debt in the hope that the course will “pay for itself”.

          Then the next product comes along that promises even more ways to achieve financial freedom, then the next, and the next, until the credit card is maxed out. I think this is why people comment so much on this site. It’s not jealousy or envy as the gurus might think. It’s anger at being preyed upon.

          Preying on people’s desires and insecurity isn’t “manifesting” it’s a short con, plain and simple. And Tellman, Frank, Ed and others, just because your circle jerk buddies are doing it too, that doesn’t make it right.

      2. @Unicorn Army,

        As I made clear in the comment itself, this is the only IM guy I follow at all because he has a consistent message – stop going into the ‘unicorn niches’ to sell ‘circular’ products.
        I’m also a member of his Copynprofit site – and I found not only a lot of good content, but actual tools – he provides link building services, SEO analysis tools for sites, ready to use KW research and so on.
        NOW – JUST SO I’M CLEAR – I’m not saying that you should go and buy his stuff or whatever. I’m simply saying that I consider this to be a real value guy as opposed to the typical guru who is all hot air – PLUS – it takes guts to stand up and call out these other gurus when he could instead be ‘JV’ing with them to make more money – to me that says a lot about the person’s sincerity. In the the last 6 months or so that I’ve been following him, he’s promoted maybe 4 products – none of them from the ‘gurus’ and has provided a lot more content for free.

        It is not my intention to promote him or anyone. I link to these videos for a reason.
        There are people on here that claim Salty is a hater and is blinded and/or hates IM as a whole. I hope to show that there are other people – with a completely different view, different language and a different ‘insider’ understanding if you will – that see the exact same problems in the industry and call out the exact same people for the same issues.

    2. @advancedNoob, dude are you gay? You claim not to be that guy in the lame vids, but yet this is the billionth time you’ve posted links to his lame videos. *raised eyebrow*

      1. @wtf?,

        Fine. Point taken. You’re right that I’ve probably linked to a lot of his vids – but I’ve explained why that is so. I’m not an affiliate, nor do I get any compensation from anyone for doing so.
        My point is simply to show the ones who claim Salty is an outsider to the IM industry that there are people within the industry that see the exact same problems.
        I’ve also posted MANY times without any links of any sort. It seemed to me that I’d found a good example of someone who was also sharing this information instead of riding on backs of noobs to make money.
        Secondly, I’ve posted links to videos that are on-topic and highlight the point being made from a completely different angle in some cases…so I guess I don’t see the problem, but if it bothers you 3-4 people so much maybe I’ll refrain.

        I figured these links may help someone, and if it helps even one person who thought salty was a hater and the video made them see the truth, I’d say it was worth it?

        In any case, I don’t appreciate unnecessary name-calling.

        1. @advancedNoob,

          Don’t worry – that’s what they do here. They don’t want to resolve anything or figure out any solutions. They just want to bash anything that has to do with IM – seriously lame site here – and Salty Douche is the lamest of all.

          1. In “DooDoo Brown’s World-O-Scam,” “Resolve” and “Solutions” are scammer-code for “look the other way” and “don’t mess with our victim pool.”

          2. @DooDoo Brown, Given that you have used every nasty name in the book to describe the owner of this pro-consumer blog upon which you have attempted to bash victims, and you further refer to the readers of this blog as “sheep” and “haters,” among milder things, your denial of being a pompous, scamming ass with a dubious agenda has been declined.

            You may of course appeal the decision, but your designated counsel, Satan, is unfortunately not licensed to practice here.

            1. Right, Sheep Droid, Keep telling yourself that and maybe it will come true. Did you learn that tactic from James Ray?

    3. @advancedNoob,

      Thanks for setting me straight. I had read all around that the copynprofit guy was a pretty big scammer and I think someone called him a poser or something like that when it had to do with antiguru stuff.

      I feel pretty stupid now that you pointed all that out, although I guess i mostly kind of feel pretty stupid most of the time anyhow, so thanks for nothing, you, you, nincompoop!

    1. @mikefilsaimeinder, so they are reinventing themselves as local SEO guys? Does that mean they are distancing themselves away from the guru business? And what’s with the 25 employees and the BBB -A rating? Kern’s plan B for when his merchant account is taken away from him?

      Here’s something ironic:

      “With our Reputation Management service you’ll never have to worry about people slandering your business on the internet.”

      This blog has posted a shit load of damaging information about Kern, but so far, nothing has been done. Oh, wait a minute, it’s only slander/libel if the damaging information is not true.

      If the damaging information also comes in the form of videos of you incriminating yourself, you’re shit out of luck.

    2. @mikefilsaimeinder, now I really want to puke. the contradictory evidence that I personally have in regards to this *local business “program” is beyond disgusting.
      oh, how the writing has been on the wall for so long… I just didn’t want to see it. or believe it.
      Everything is (finally) making sense.

      go ahead vote down.

      please new people coming here -do not – buy this program, or any of the other “business” programs that the sin-dicks are coming out with. (not speaking to the people here who know better)

      Especially not a certain PL Formula course/program. And for my survivor friends, The Angela Shelton affiliate program is a crock.

      (moments of clarity)

      1. @Bohica, Locella claims to sell ready-made websites for small businesses. Most likely you’ve found a control panel where their clients (if there ever are any clients) will be able to make changes to their sites.

      2. @Bohica,

        QUICK! Download that video before he takes it off. LOL OMFG I had to download that video before explosing this Trey Smith. When he shows the adwords campaigns and all the gazillions of dollars he supposedly has spent, he forgot to change his daily budget from $0.00/day to whatever the made up amount he supposedly spent so that they’d match. LOL what an idiot.

        1. Ya might wanna review the Photoshop tutorials and double check you work before uploading your “proof” that you’re making all this money, Trey deary ;)

      1. @Big Chuck, You mean the term Locella, or is it What kind of term is Locella, anyway? Is it someone’s pet name, or some pet’s name? Locella? Oh, Locella. What a nonword, Locella.

    1. @Anthony Mahavick, Holy shit, that’s something else.


      After getting a degree specialising in romantic poetry, he was astonished to be hired by a prestigious management consultancy, given three weeks training, and then dropped into major corporations

      Almost sounds like the typical internet “guru” doesn’t it?

    2. @Anthony Mahavick,

      There is tons of D-Bags in this world. Many are much much worse than these guys. This is why I wondered why SD was specifically going after these guys since he said he wasn’t even involved in IM…?

      1. @DooDoo Brown,

        I, too, have wondered why SD does what he does. And I’ve decided that I don’t care.

        If he tries to sell me something, I’ll re-evaluate. Or, if his “facts” turn out to not be facts.

        So far, all he’s doing is solid reporting.

        1. @Anthony Mahavick,

          True, if the solid reporting means giving biased reviews and showing out of context videos that are manipulated with text and evil music behind them.

          Yeah, I guess that kind of sounds like the media we are all used to here…

  5. @DooDoo Brown said:

    “There is tons of D-Bags in this world. Many are much much worse than these guys. This is why I wondered why SD was specifically going after these guys since he said he wasn’t even involved in IM…?”

    Which D-Bags here are not “not as bad?” Any specific ones you think SD should go easy on? Let us know so we can invite them over for tea.

  6. Syndicate in french does mean trade union

    but Frank Kern in french means Huge Doucher….weird

    His new partner in local stuff is Jordan Belfort

    nothing like teaming up 2 felons

    1. @wtf?,


      Frank isn’t a felon but his business practices are borderline criminal & they are defiantly in the legal gray area.

      Jordan Belfort is a felon who ONLY got 2 years in prison. I can’t believe that to be honest and it makes me sick. Not because I’m jealous – it’s because it’s a disrespect to justice & hardwork.

      Don’t get me wrong at all though. Everybody makes mistakes.

      But I still question his morals because he talks with no humility whatsoever in my humble opinion.

  7. I’m on the road people :: keep these trolls under control in my absence!

    Also … I’ll never be able to catch up on the last week’s crazy email load … but I did read them ALL. Every word. So keep them coming .. and don’t feel bad if I don’t reply.


      1. @DooDoo Brown, Aww, what’s the matter, lil scammer, you afraid your scammin’ days are comin’ to an end? ‘Course they are. All bad things must come to an end. You’ll look better in denim with a number stenciled on the back.

        1. Your such an idiot – I don’t give a shit about scamming people. Take your assumptions and stick them up your ass.

          This site is a scam.

          1. @doodoo, Aww, now lil scammer, there’s no need to start posturing until you get to The Big House. Maybe when you get there you can find someone to teach you just the kind of internet scamming you want to learn about. You’ll need something to trade, but it sounds like you have that covered, or at least it’s covered right at this moment.

      2. @DooDoo Brown ::

        I’m sorry that my awesomeness cost you your only affiliate commission in a year … maybe you can find an old lady to mug.

        1. @SD,

          What does that even mean?

          Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me. It’s no wonder that most of your sheep are very low in the brain department.

          The funny thing is that I bet you think you are real smart as do many of your little cronies. In reality you are quite an idiot that adds no positive substance to the world.

          The world would be a better place without you and your manipulating site. You are the ultimate douche bag. I hope to see you soon around the way.

          1. @DooDoo Brown, something’s got you real upset doesn’t it? I can just see your head steaming.

            1. @2live n 2pac,

              @DooDoo Brown … I can just see your head steaming.

              Given his nickname, I find the image you painted in my head singularly unappealing.

  8. Below is a email promotion sent by Joe Polish. He is promoting Eben Pagan’s new frauduct called “Mastering Self-Esteem”.

    The price of the new frauduct is $497.

    Let’s QUICKLY get the word out and ruin this promotion. He is charging a ridiculous amount of money for very little value or actual worth when it comes to getting RESULTS.

    Let’s prevent all the affiliates from creating hype over bullshit.

    I SINCERELY don’t want people to blow money that they can’t afford to lose over a over-priced program that is repetitive & rehashed from a $10-100 book that can be found at a local bookstore or for free at a good library.

    He should change the name to “Mastering Your Credit Card”.

    Ever feel like, you’re just not good enough… not smart enough… not successful enough?

    Maybe that’s part of what drives you as an entrepreneur. But if you’re ever going to be truly happy, you must always increase your confidence.

    As an entrepreneur you MUST PROTECT YOUR SELF-ESTEEM.

    Take just one minute right now and write on a blank sheet of paper…

    “What would be possible if I had just 5% more self-confidence?”

    Brainstorm a bit about that… Then, please watch this killer video:



    1. @SyndicateExposed, All the profit from the mastering self-esteem program goes to nathaniel branden. That dude really deserves it. His products are amazing and he really has brought so much to the concept of self-esteem.

      Mess with their other frauducts. This one is legit and they aren’t making any money from it. Only an old man who’s probably 80 years old and has contributed a lot. In fact, I’d recommend going out and buying his book “The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem” instead of buying this product.

      1. @Bob Smith, It is a shame they are bringing this old man into their shennanigans by giving this gift.. Probably trying to associate themselves with him because of his high integrity and reputation.

        1. @Bob Smith,

          Interestingly, Branden was Ayn Rand’s lover in her Objectivism cult. While I respect Branden and his writings, every guy I’ve met into Objectivism (and funny, they’ve all been men) has turned out to be a real douchebag in the end. All that “virtue of selfishness” talk can get really warped. I’m much more in favor of empathy than selfishness as a virtue these days.

          1. @Duff,

            Interesting you should say that. I totally agree about Objectivists being narcissistic self-involved douchebags, and also found, years ago, what I thought was a better take on self-esteem than Branden’s involving, among other things, service to others. The book was called “Esteemable Acts” and the premise was that in order to build self-esteem (rather than only wallowing in me, me, me, let me figure out more about me) one should do ‘esteemable acts’. Makes sense, huh? Perform acts of esteem or worth in life and act in esteemable ways, thereby creating self-esteem or self-worth. (I’m pretty sure Kern and Pagan would have NO idea what the hell I’m talking about.)

            1. @scammed, “I’m pretty sure Kern and Pagan would have NO idea what the hell I’m talking about.”

              You are pretty sure … I’m certain of it!

              You can throw Dale in there with them, the greasy fat prick.

      2. @Bob Smith,

        All “self-help” products – be they your so-called “classic books”, or new-wage high-ticket frauds – are ALL mental masturbation.

        Real inspiration and willpower comes from just about every other section of the bookstore.

        1. @What?,

          If you don’t like “self-help” books then don’t read them. However, there is millions of people that do like them. Just because it doesn’t help you and you feel they are mental masturbation, doesn’t make it true.

          It takes a lot of different folks to make this world go around.

          I don’t like gardening but that doesn’t mean I go around flaming everyone that does.

          This blog has turned from exposing some frauds to becoming very prejudice. Whenever you make a blanket statement about a certain group or race, it is usually inaccurate and prejudice.

          Oh, by the way, star wars itself was based off of self help Salty…

      3. @Bob Smith,

        I remember from Six Pillars that one thing Branden says is key to building self-esteem is to do esteemable acts. Unfortunately Kern and Pagan et. al. continue to feel good about themselves despite their actions.

  9. Oh god…when I look at him I just want to punch him in the face…
    what a condescending douchebag…you have to buy this $500 frauduct because it can be found in a $5 book but I added a lot of fluff and used copywriting hype and now you can not be successful without it…FU Eben Deangelo you Fcuking fraud

  10. John Carlton pimping Mike Filsaime’s AffiliateDotCum frauduct.


    One of the biggest differences between
    struggling marketers…

    …and those who are kicking butt online…

    …is understanding the simple strategies
    now available to start getting the easiest
    (and hottest) results possible.

    Our colleague Mike Filsaime (who’s been
    kicking it online for a very, very long
    time now) has just released a series of
    videos that explain the “New School”
    strategies that are working like crazy
    for folks who – previously – struggled
    to get any traction at all online.

    Best part: You don’t need even a modest
    pile of dough, or special tech skills,
    or even your own product to get moving
    right now.

    This is excellent info, straight from the
    source. You can see how a real person
    actually went from squat to cooking on
    high heat… step by step. Using free
    traffic, social media, and fresh affiliate
    marketing tactics.

    Mike’s giving it away, here:

    You just need a few simple tweaks in your
    mindset, and a few new (and easy) strategies
    in your tool kit to get going.

    Check it out, while the video series is
    there for you.


    Stan (Carlton’s biz partner)


    1. @SyndicateExposed, John Carlton …

      (the famous marketing rebel who brought us the Simple Writing System Copywriting Course and the Copywriting Sweatshop)

      … is my favorite internet marketing copywriter …

      for me to poop on!

      strategies that are working like crazy

      What the hell does that even mean?

      to start getting the easiest (and hottest) results possible

      Huh? Who the heck buys into this crap? It doesn’t mean anything.

      cooking on high heat

      Bet it can also:

      Separate the wheat from the chaff in the heat of the battle.

      And teach you how to take a licking and keep on ticking.

      And also, what to do if you find yourself behind the eight ball.

      Remember, no pain, no gain — even if you’re on the road to nowhere.

      Friend, you’ve simply got to knuckle down. It’ll do your heart good.

      Cliche-ville or bust.

      You just need a few simple tweaks in your mindset

      New age gobbledygook.

      John Carlton, copywriter, — you’ve really got what it takes!

      1. @spoonfaceboy, Yeah. “Cooking on high heat.” Now that’s some serious copywriting right there.

        I don’t imagine people bother looking critically at Carlton’s copywriting though. They are just buying into his ability to channel the ghost of Gary Halbert, which is just as likely to happen spontaneously in the men’s room.

  11. Dear Salty:

    Not totally on topic—but John Carlton is friend with Frank Kern….

    John Carlton is currently promoting another scammer: Mike Filsaime.

    Here’s another effort by John Carlton to help other scammers sell more bs products.

    This time: Mike Filsaime, scammer #1, is getting help from John Carlton-Scammer #2, for some AffiliateDotCom bs.

    I hope that, in the future, a lot more attention is given to John Carlton.

    He seems to have some shred of credibility left because of his association with some big name marketers.

    But those days, John Carlton is in bed with all the notorious scammers online—including Frank Kern, Mike Filsaime, and the scammerly famous Harlan Finger-Healing Kill-Them-Customers Shit-Stain.

    Here’s the email I got from John Carlton’s partner: Stan.

    I am reproducing the email down here, as evidence of how John Carlton
    is still pushing BS for a a proven scammer like Mike Filsaime.

    Hopefully, others who’ve had unresolved issues with John Carlton will come forward with their horror stories and post them and now other potential customers will need to think twice before buying anything from John Carlton and getting ripped off.

    Buyer beware


    One of the biggest differences between
    struggling marketers…

    …and those who are kicking butt online…

    …is understanding the simple strategies
    now available to start getting the easiest
    (and hottest) results possible.

    Our colleague Mike Filsaime (who’s been
    kicking it online for a very, very long
    time now) has just released a series of
    videos that explain the “New School”
    strategies that are working like crazy
    for folks who – previously – struggled
    to get any traction at all online.

    Best part: You don’t need even a modest
    pile of dough, or special tech skills,
    or even your own product to get moving
    right now.

    This is excellent info, straight from the
    source. You can see how a real person
    actually went from squat to cooking on
    high heat… step by step. Using free
    traffic, social media, and fresh affiliate
    marketing tactics.

    Mike’s giving it away, here:

    You just need a few simple tweaks in your
    mindset, and a few new (and easy) strategies
    in your tool kit to get going.

    Check it out, while the video series is
    there for you.


    Stan (Carlton’s biz partner)


    To contact me or a member of my staff, please go
    to and submit a ticket.

    You should assume that the sender of this e-mail has an
    affiliate relationship and/or another material connection to
    the providers of goods and services mentioned in this
    message and may be compensated when you purchase
    from this provider.

    1. @JohnCarltonScammedMe,

      John Carlton stepped down from his pedestal when he saw that being a talented copywriter and teacher didn’t pay as much as joining the scumbags in the syndicate. For a few moments he added a touch of class to illiterate greaseballs such as Perry Belcher and his butt-buddies Frank Kern and Ed Dale, but now he’s just another wannabe.

      1. @Jean Billsac,

        John Cartlon tries to squeeze credibility out of the fact that he worked with Gary Halbert.

        That scum tries to always emphasize how close he was to Gary Halbert. Gary was honest though and John is not.

        Gary did get arrested but that was because of his inability to fulfill order because a bunch of robbers came to his mansion and stole his customers’ check. So he basically was unable to prove his innocence and a postal inspector was also very jealous about his house. (True Story)

        I John Carlton shortly turned into a scum once Gary passed away in my humble opinion.

        i bet Gary pities John from above.

        1. @SyndicateExposed, Gary Halbert had quite a few other “oopsies” besides the robbers stealing his checks story. Gary Halbert was a con like the rest.

    2. @JohnCarltonScammedMe,

      John Carlton, copywriter and marketing rebel, taught Harlan Kilstein, a Harvard graduate …

      (it says so right here

      … everything he knows about copywriting.

      Marketing rebel, John Carlton, even wrote the foreword to Harlan Kilstein’s book “Steal This Book”. The subtitle of the book purports to teach you how to suck up cash like a “vacuum on steroids”. Personification at its very best!

      Until I picked up and read some of the Harlan Kilstein authored, John Cartlon inspired book I had no idea the two were so close. A marketing rebel and a NLP master Jewish Rabbi (Yep, Harlan Kilstein is a bonified Rabbi. Says so in the book.) — an unbeatable combination!

      John claims that Harlan stole his material — ruthlessly. Kilstein does not refute Carlton’s claim. H. Kilstein actually brags about swiping from Cartlon as well as numerous other successful direct mail letters. J.

      Carlton wears the fact that Harlan K. regurgitated his copy like a badge of honor.

      One does imagine Kilstein and Carlton as two big cows in a meadow regurgitating, swapping and chewing the other’s cud. (Sorta like bovine version of a snowball.)

      I’m not sure if this comment will help this blog rank higher for John Carlton marketing rebel and Harlan Kilstein NLP guru or not.

      I hope it does. Even though Harlan Kilstein NLP and copywriting guru went down in flames, John Carlton marketing rebel and copywriter, creator of the Simple Writing System, could be a formidable foe for the Droid.

      1. @spoonfaceboy, I hope that our posts do rank high for John Carlton, because he stands by his girl, Harlan D. Kilstein, a supposed Harvard graduate. (LMAO) Can you imagine, a man such as John Carlton vouching for a pervert by the name of Harlan David Kilstein, who makes it his pastime to attack rape victims, snuggles with pedophiles, and who sells an ebook about Christian blowjobs???

        I should say, that this is definitely a reflection of the character behind the products.

        Harlan Kilstein, a Harvard graduate? Really? That dumb fuck couldn’t make it into Roscoe’s Chicken, Waffles and Welding University, much less H A R V A R D.

        John Carlton also snuggled and cuddled with the late Gary Halbert who went to prison for not fulfilling orders. Yea sure, some robbers broke into his home and stole all the mail with the checks in it. Real businesses have insurance for things like that, but not the great Gary Halbert, he was just a victim of circumstances. There are lots of people who have been scammed by Halbert, the SOB got off easy. Fuck Gary Halbert.

        Guess those same robbers stole the real. cancer curing medications from Perry Belcher’s home too.

        John Carlton you better pick up your guitar and start finding some gigs to support your ass, cuz shits coming down your way fast!

        1. @Jewish Fingering Healing with Christian Blowjobs,

          Totally. Salty ranks on Google’s first page for the Harlan Kilstein term. However, he doesn’t rank for guitar strumming, marketing rebel, golf sage, copywriter John Carlton.

          Probably because Salty hasn’t had a reason to skewer Carlton, John … yet.

          John Carlton, marketing rebel, is a devilishly good writer to boot. I think he may have taken the Simple Writing System course … or something :)

          Yep, John C. is a ‘big dog marketer’. Carlton may not be worth the trouble … then again, I can see his fingerprints all over the steely internet marketing sphere.

      2. @spoonfaceboy, “Cud swappers.” A repulsive, yet oddly illustrative visual. That sounds about right.

        It is highly strange that John Carlton and SD’s #1 designated DB, Harlan Kilstein, are so chummy. Where does the logic stop and true love begin?

        If you want a good laugh, go check out the reviews for Kilstein’s “book” on Amazon. Harlan took offense and responded to the negative reviews in whiney, nasty fashion. (So much for his supposed Harvard “education,” NLP “background,” and the assumption that an adult brain accompanies an adult body.)

        1. @D. Tritus, I hadn’t read the reviews of Harlan Kilstein’s, star pupil of John Carlton, book before. Funny stuff.

          And the price tag – $132.97 – holy mother of pearl! (There’s that ‘ol number 97 we see cropping up time and again in the IM world.

          I wonder if the long, overtly positive critique was written by the marketing rebel himself? John Carlton does fancy the 100 character line – or whatever that number is used copywriting gurus who make a lot of money online.

          If John wasn’t lying in the foreword he wrote for Kilstein’s , the comments must’ve hurt his feelings. One of his star pupils being justly and unmercifully lambasted by actual direct response copywriters — likely crushed his marketing rebel, six figure copywriting ego.

          And Harlan’s grammar is atrocious. One reviewer pointed this out only to be rebuffed by Harlan’s claims that all advertising copy bends the rules of grammar. Harlan, dude, she wasn’t talking about the ad copy, she was talking about the poorly written prose.

          Yep, I wouldn’t be surprised if John Carlton distanced himself from Harlan after that book was published.

          (As you can tell, I don’t know SEO . I’m trying to learn a bit from SEOBook, but, if one of you have suggestions for me — feel free. I think you’re supposed to have 100 characters between key words — ??? Not that I want to use Salty’s platform as my personal stumping post — it’s just cocky John Carlton gets under my skin like an ingrown toenail.)

          1. @spoonfaceboy, This comment by Kilstein in response to one of his negative reviews on Amazon sums up Harlan in a nutshell:

            “This is obviously a fraudulent attempt to slam my book. It’s part of an organized campaign to keep people from reading this book.”

            Speaking of his uh, “book:”


            By the way, it should be noted that for a lot of these guys, including Kilstein, the stuff they write ad copy about is intrinsically sensational (like psychics, mysticism, mind power, health, bizop). If they had to write compelling copy for screwdrivers, or compete in the mainstream, they might be at a loss for words.

  12. From reading the comments since the past few days, I’ve come to the conclusion that Salty Droid is on to something really devastating to the core of not just IM, but to the business institution as we know it. There is a common thread the IM, self-help, and other industries have. It is the syndication within. You’ve obviously caused quite a few people some lack of sleep an d their good nerves. Excellent work Droid! They are worried… very worried.

    1. @Lord Ganesh, Agreed. I am familiar with antitrust laws (and related federal and state causes of action, criminal and civil) and this is exactly the type think DAs, the DOJ, and/or the FTC like to enforce. There are also other types of civil causes of action such as class actions, unfair competition, false advertising, fraud, and others. If these guys were smart, they would be hiring the best antitrust and white-collar attorneys they can find and immediately stopping their shenanigans to prevent further liability. Due to Salty’s work the cat is out of the bag and things will never be the way they were, even 2 weeks ago. What we have witnessed on this site over the past few weeks is the tipping point. Just watch. From this may come cases that will be studied by law students for many years to come. I just hope the good ones are able to distance themselves from the really bad guys.

      1. @Sherman Act, there is a wave of awareness that is sweeping the interwebs, first it starts small, whispers, secret emails..then it gets grows… right hand men betraying their bosses, crooks scamming their crooked partners… then it gets even bigger… people wanting answers, refunds, restitutions… and then… more whispers to other people in unrelated industries.. visits to this blog give others ideas … but there is something odd about the Internet, it seems to have a mind of its own and it loves exposure.

  13. Btw can’t find the original post where someone mentioned about a guy named Everett who was in IM and ended up killing his wife. What was his name and where can I find that original post? Any updates?

      1. @Dimitri, Thank you. It’s strange that someone who is preaching success and wealth flips out like this. Seems like life is not so peachy after all behind closed doors. It is tragic.

        1. @Christian blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing,

          Yes, this is a terrible, awful example of an already unstable person who bought into the false dreams of the gurus, ran up uncontrollable debts, out of madness and desperation, ended up committing the ultimate crime.

          If you look at his website, he looks like he’s living the dream, and reaching out to others to help them achieve what he has achieved:

          This is how the majority of these syndicate members started out. They LIED about their success (e.g. Frank Kern), and LIED about having a “system” you could replicate to achieve success.

          How many people would buy into internet marketing if they really knew what it took to be successful.

          They don’t tell you about:

          * The time you spend away from your friends and family because of IM and the damaged relationships
          * Spending hours hunched over your computer trying to finish projects, and damaging your health as a result
          * The number of projects you have to work on that fail before you find one that makes money
          * The stress and frustration of being jerked around by people you’ve outsourced work to
          * Dealing with constant google slaps and changes in algorithms
          * Having to learn lots of technical stuff because that’s the only way to get things done
          * Customers from hell, refunds and chargebacks
          * How very few people succeed in this business, and your best ideas are often stolen or copied by someone with better resources to implement them
          * Assistants who lie about their ability to do the job, then make mistakes that cost you money
          * Being cheated out of affiliate commissions you worked hard for, or paid to get traffic to
          * The isolation, stress and lack of understanding you get from anyone outside IM
          * How the people who make real money doing IM would never talk about what they do
          * Wasting thousands of dollars and TIME on IM advice that doesn’t work!!

          They certainly never tell you that they are getting rich by regurgitating other people’s methods (e.g. Ed Dale) and getting their friends to promote their products, and that they almost never make money by doing the methods they teach (e.g. Ryan Diess).

          And they most definitely don’t tell you that they keep their costs low by exploiting volunteers, and generate their ideas by stealing from students they pretend to help (Ed Dale again).

          It’s so much easier for the self-proclaimed gurus to pretend they are lying on the beach, making millions (e.g. Harlan Kilstein) while efficient Virtual Assistants in some third world country take care of your business (e.g. Tim Ferris).

          This blog has motivated me to examine my own actions, and look at how I might be supporting these moral criminals. I have already cancelled subscriptions to services and newsletters I’m not finding useful, and unsubscribing from over 20 IM email databases.

          1. @Anon, excellent post, I’ve voted it up. I agree with you on most everything, except the unstable part. Now, while I don’t know Ellery Benett personally, I don’t want to rush to conclude that everyone is crazy or unstable that snaps under the life of IM.

            I’ve seen this thing happen with people involved in cults, who from one day to the next snap and go bezerk. On the other hand, you have to be unstable to kill your wife.

            Which brings me to another point, why is it that so many of these IM guys pretend to be living the high life filled with money and success, but life off the hard work of their wives? I can’t tell you how many chumps I’ve known in the IM world that called themselves “stay-at-home dads” which translates to “loser who leeches off his wife”.

            Lisa Benett probably grew tired of the hyped up “positive thinking” and started expecting some returns from all that time and money investments.

      2. @Dimitri,

        I heard someone took their life after a failed product launch a few years ago. Is that true?

  14. I am one of the Ed Dale lab rats mentioned above. Or I was a few years ago until I figured out that my brain was being drained when I had paid for it to be filled with useful information that was never forthcoming. Most of the stuff in this blog post is true. No one who uses Ed Dale’s methods has ever made any money at all. It’s all a massive, massive, massive con.

    Salty, if you would like the names of Ed Dale’s lab rats that are currently still working for him for free, the women who run his forums (can anyone tell me why he only gets women to run his forums?), the guys who build his blogs and the idiots who write fan letters full of affiliate links just let me know and I’ll post them in another comment.

    If anyone deserves a huge Salty Droid “job” done of them it is Ed Dale. At least all the other gurus don’t try to be Mr. Nice Guy like Dale does, posting photos of his children all over the place. Looking forward to seeing Dale get torn a new one in the near future.

    1. Ed Dale is a HUGE fan of Dan Kennedy. And Dan Kennedy teaches his disciples to exploit others for fun and profit by gathering a “herd” of people, and becoming a cult leader. One of his special reports teaches what you need to do to create your cult:

      What Business Are You Really In? CULTS
      Are You Building a Cult?
      Developing Customers, Putting an Iron Cage Around Customers, Moving From Transactional to Relationship Marketing and Its Relevance to Info-Marketing, Where Usually We Are the Brand and the Business Is Purely Customers
      “Rites of Passage”
      Goals of Obtaining Insider Status
      Sales Is “Ends Justifying Means”
      Benefits of Face-to-Face Conversion
      Borders You Create: You’re Either “In” or “Out”
      The Type of Understanding You Need in Order to be Effective
      Importance of Rituals, Vocabulary and Hierarchy
      The Importance of Leadership

      ~ from

      Women In Cults

      Women can see cults for the freedoms they seem to pose but quite frequently don’t deliver. Many of these cults prey on women because of their vulnerabilities and exploit them after they have been indoctrinated.

      As the cults grow more powerful they tend to abuse this power by making their members–usually the female members–submit. Often there is a male figure in charge that serves as the leader and enforces this indoctrination throughout the group. The leader of the cult takes “special liberties” with many of the women.

      ~ from

      How Ed Dale Uses Cult Building To Exploit Women

      Often it’s women who recruit other women into the cult, as they are more likely to trust an unthreatening, friendly female face.

      Ed Dale actually gets the very same women he manipulates to recruit other women to work for him for free, using words that appeal to the type of women who fall for scams like the Secret love to read:

      “SERVICE: Do You Have What It Take’s To Be Thirty Day Challenge Moderator? #30DC

      If you are interested in giving back to the 30DC community as we go into Pre-Season June/July and the 30DC itself in August I would like to hear from you….

      As well as learning a credible online system that has proven itself over and over to work; it is an incredible time of learning, growing and giving to each other.

      ……because we’re committed to giving every single participant the best possible experience, we are looking for volunteers to help as manage the flow and assist people on their own personal 30DC journeys.

      ….I am looking for positive people, who respect their fellow colleagues, and have a genuine desire to help.

      ~ from

      I can provide examples of what these women have said and written to demonstrate how brainwashed they are by Ed Dale, but I don’t want to add to Ed Dale’s abuse by exploiting their delusions.

      No woman is safe from being exploited to make Ed Dale money. Not even his daughters! Not even his wife, whose pictures he posted all over the internet shortly after giving birth!

      (And no, I’m not going to link to THOSE pictures either.)

      1. @Why Ed Dale Only Gets Women To Run His Forums,

        Nah, women flock to him because they can relate to him. He has bigger boobs than most of ’em and he wears mascara, blusher and lipgloss on his videos. What’s there not to love?

        1. @Philippe, Ed Dale is the butch Richard Simmons with straight hair and without the exercise addiction BUT WITH the same food addiction.

  15. Hi, I had posted this in the wrong page because there are so may pages about Frank Kern here and it’s confusing me.

    What I wanted to tell you was I looked on the Google search engine for the Instant Internet Empires FTC thing and found this:

    It said that in that pdf file you can read that there was “good cause to believe that the defendents will attempt to deliberately conceal the scope of their deliberate illegal actions” but I don’t think it’s true because the Robot showed us that other video the other day where Frank was teaching us how to do the syndicate crime thing.

      1. @Karin Hiebert, I’m tired of you coming here and hinting at bigger secrets behind scandalous topics, saying that all kinds of people email & call you with inside information that you’ll reveal at some point in the future and never delivering. It’s quite annoying and does not make people think you’re trustworthy.

        Say what it is that you’ve got , post a direct link to it in your blog or else stop with all the smoke and mirrors. It’s quite annoying. I’m beginning to think you’ve got nothing at all and just want attention. Sorry if I’m completely wrong, but that’s how you come off.

        1. @Christian blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing, I believe it took the droid about a year to expose a lot of his hinting at having evidence and so on in regards to a lot of bullshit that needed to come out.

          Patience, my friend… it will all come out. No doubt. And it will most definitely be on my blog. Complete with links and all… don’t be sorry for being completely wrong.

        2. @Christian blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing, Hi, Christian blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing, I also didn’t understand why she won’t tell me the funny story or almost funny story, too.

          1. @Jack, ok, ok…

            someone sold ole frankie boy his own instant empires domain name after he had let it go for a while…

            Frank decided he would simply link to the document…since maybe thats what someone was going to do anyway…

            just thought it was kinda funny…

    1. @Jack,

      I pointed out the same thing in a post from last week. Logically it made sense to me. How can something that Frank Kern openly teaches the public to do, be held against him?

      Then Unicorn Amy’s reply to my post caused this thought:

      Substitute another crime for the one allegedly perpetrated by Frank Kern and the case becomes clear.

      So, instead of this:

      How I Swindle The General Public, My Affiliates and My Distribution Channels In 10 Easy Whiteboard Sessions Or Less

      use this:

      How I Steal Unicycles From Circus Bears or Wheelchairs From Amputees And Sell Them Back For A Profit

      or this:

      How I Promised To Put a Roof On Your Grandmother’s House For Five Grand, Took Her Money and Then Skipped Town

      or this:

      How I Secretly Dropped A Deuce In The Subdivision’s Community Pool While Swimming, Then Get Out Of The Pool, Put On A Khaki Uniform And Pretended Like I Was The Health Inspector … And Then Forced The Home Owner’s Association To Pay Me Under The Table To Clean Up The Mess — (Bonus: How I Outsourced The Clean Up To Desperate Jobless Widows And Shafted Them On The Payment)

      1. @spoonfaceboy, Hi spoonfaceboy,

        I read your post a lot of times today to understand it so now I know what you mean and then I also thought that in a couple of your scenarious (not the bears and unicycles one, but maybe the skipping town situation) that someone would say those scenarious would be something like an “attempt to deliberately conceal the scope of their deliberate illegal actions”.

        But in the video the Robot showed us yesterday it seemed like the syndicate crime business plan was not concealed or maybe not very well maybe?

        1. @Jack, I hear what you’re saying. I said the same. And honestly, part of me wonders there is much of a case.

          All of my examples were based on past events. “I did x, which is a crime, and now I will teach you how to do x.”

          And, what if I didn’t do the x crime, but just taught others how.

          It seems that everything hinges on whether x is a crime.

          You and I are looking past the label x to see what x contains. Or, what defines x —

          If x is defined by a “secret method” then can x be considered x once its defining secret method is revealed?

          Yeah, it all hinges on whether x is a crime or not. That’s the only way this will make sense.

          1. @spoonfaceboy, Hi spoonfaceboy,

            I think lying to people at the Dale’s workshop might be a crime because when i found that other document at the ftc website i saw something there where it said if you get people to buy stuff based on a lie you could be a criminal or something like that. I will see if i can find that again but that ftc website has even more pages than the Robot’s pages and i don’t understand how to find that again, but i think it was something about people buying your things mostly because you’re lying to them will get you in trouble, but i guess also can still make you $400,000 maybe like Frank did with the Empires book.

          2. @spoonfaceboy, oh, i didn’t understand at first about is it OK for Frank to teach people to commit crimes, is that what you mean? I mean legal, not OK I guess.

          3. @spoonfaceboy, spoonfaceboy, I found that page again on the ftc website but it says the made the page in 1983 so maybe you can do more stuff online now like teach about committing crimes and things like that but anyhow here’s the page I found;

            I don’t understand a lot of it but I think the Robot might be able to tell us more about how it all works and whether not it might be OK to teach about committing crimes now, but what I wanted to tell you about was this first part where it says:

            “Thus, the Commission will find deception if there is a representation, omission or practice that is likely to mislead the consumer acting reasonably in the circumstances, to the consumer’s detriment. We discuss each of these elements below.”

            So maybe not telling people about the whole Empires book story would be something like an omission which is when you leave something out of a story or something like that.

  16. I think Kern sucks but Andy Jenkins is by far the biggest asshole of the bunch. I saw him in 2004′ at the System Seminar and he was actually pretty cool back then but he thinks he’s a super hero now.

    I saw him at in the lobby of the Hard Rock back in June and it’s dark as hell and he’s wearing those foolish mirrored sun glasses and I had no choice to call him an asshole. He actually said “not smart considering I’m a black-belt”…LOL

    He pussed out when I asked for a demonstration of his skills ( little did he know I was there for an MMA convention :))

    The clown doesn’t even know how to moderate comments on his blog:

    Hit him hard!

    1. @Luke,

      Seeing hard working people on that blog that think investing in Andy Jenkins and these other scammers, voicing concerns on the comment area there, only to be met by other IM scum trying to either tell them to shut up or keep trying, makes me sick.

      This vomit these IM circle-jerkers regurgitate like:

      Scarcity Mentality: Yeah, you mean “stop worrying about your money and give it to me”.

      Take Action: Yeah, you mean “become my affiliate and sell my crap”, or “make your own worthless crap clog up the web with more spam, and if you become good enough, maybe we’ll spam together in the circle jerk!”

      Disgusting devolution of humanity before our eyes.

    1. @Dimitri, I wonder if the parrot wrote the ad copy? I hope not, because if there’s one thing more troubling than a snobby, non-talking parrot, it’s an illiterate one. Maybe the parrot was also in charge of customer service and refund requests.

      Hard to believe that Frank’s parrot and doggy ebooks could possibly have made him a million dollars, but I imagine that he imagines it all might possibly could maybe have, perhaps.

    2. @Dimitri, I just ran a quick check of the backlinks in my SEO software. Sure, it’s old, but EVERY LINK is from a work at home/IM/make money site. Only 65 even show up. You could do the same thing in Yahoo Site Explorer.

      Which underscores my larger point, I doubt F.K. EVERY made ANY money from any non-IM site. Without seeing his books, I suggest it is ALL a smokescreen, and he only built those shitty sites because he knew his victims would Google them and try to copy them.

      I mean, seriously. ALL the gurus, from top-level to bottom-feeders “hide their niches” and act like they’re these goldmines. BECAUSE THERE ARE NO NICHES!!!

      Due diligence, people! Use it!

      1. @Back-Link Checker,

        You’re right but SEO isn’t the only way.

        PPC traffic. It was 0.01/click those days.

        He uses PPC. Not SEO.

        1. @Marky Marc, now I have to dig around on SpyFu too?

          My point is: a lie about a parrot website + a parrot website = a ridiculous income claim NOT AT ALL.

          Show me the books, then the audit, and then we can talk. (said to FIK)

  17. This was originally posted on the wailing wall by Ryan Healey

    An Internet Marketer by the name of Robert Puddy, has openly said that someone should “take a shotgun” to Salty Droid’s head and kill him. When you think of James Ray killing those people and this Ellery Everett killing his wife, it is pretty damn scary. Salty droid I’ll pray for your safety.

    Salty you’re definitely on to the bitter truth, and it is very crystal clear. If you were lying or wrong, nobody would care and they certainly wouldn’t be entertaining the thought of murdering.

    Is there a way to report Robert Puddy for making criminal threats. He seems rather proud of it and says he stands by his original post.

    1. @Christian blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing, Hi Christian blowjobs with Jewish Finger Healing,

      I don’t understand about killing a robot, but I saw people talking about some online website called IC3 a lot when I was looking for ways to make money off of my blog and I went over there to see what the site was all about and there’s a form there where if you go through a few pages it asks if “Somebody threatened you or someone else with violence (and you think that there’s some chance that they might do it)” so maybe the Robot or somebody could ask that website about it, maybe?

  18. In my experience there’s some really good stuff in Kern’s products. Eben Pagan has some good stuff too. I’ve implemented some of it and made money using it. Video Boss (Jenkins product) has some great content too.

    Sure, a lot of it is overpriced, but that doesn’t really bother me as I just wait a month or so until after the launch and get it on bittorrent.

    (Although I’m actually tempted to pay to go to EP’s live stuff based on the quality of his products.)

    As for uncovering this behavior from FK…. it’s not exactly shocking.

    Most people who make large sums of money engage in some dubious behaviour at some point in their career, even if they ‘go straight’ later. That applies in the real world, it’s nothing specific to the guru business.

    Does it make it acceptable? No, but there is a lot of stuff that’s a lot less acceptable. Like ol’ Death Ray killing people.

    Sure, they are probably complete douches, but so what, you’re not their to marry them. Just download their stuff for free, take what’s useful and move on.

  19. “Sure, they are probably complete douches, but so what, you’re not their to marry them. Just download their stuff for free, take what’s useful and move on.”

    That sounds an awful lot like “just ignore the problem.”

    Unfortunately, that’s no consolation to the many, many people who have maxed out their credit cards while banking on false promises and manufactured track records consisting of lies and deceit.

    “Moving on” ignores the problem and allows it to continue. Blogging, talking about it, and discussing it in forums out in the open is the only way to bring change and accountability.

    1. Ed Dale hasn’t slowed down his crap one bit. Seems like all he can do now a days is beg for money or type quotes from famous people.

    1. @Brad ::

      The thing about naming your daughter Frank Kern is funny in the “funny cause it’s true” kind of way. Do you think that should be the result of a normal sales process?

      But anywayz :: that’s crazy. So everything was just stripped out? I wonder if they’re not boyfriend and boyfriend anymore?

    2. @Brad, every “real world” business venture these guys have ever tried has utterly failed. What’s one more?

    3. @Brad, Those guys will never win in the real world against real people and real technology. That’s because they aren’t capable of selling by spreadsheet and results, just pie in the sky.

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  21. If you ever disrespect Australia again you are going to wish you were never born you useless talentless spoiled piece of shit. Have a NICE day!

    1. @Reality,

      Are you suggesting that “loathsome and marsupial bespeckled land of Australia” is not a compliment?

      Or were you referring to the disrespect shown to the down-low land of stoned koalas and baby-eating dingos by mentioning that Ed Dale resides there?

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