Scamming Two Debbies

PMI's Theoretical Applications

My fake secretary Debbie is quite susceptible to scams.

D-bags often call headquarters looking for an opportunity to suck-up to me and my divine stylings in authorship :: but I usually can’t take their calls {because fucking idiots are boring} … and they end up selling Debbie on some blueprint to international bestselling good fortune instead.

I call her names :: like ding-dong and bat-brain :: but that never seems to help … so I mostly just laugh at her. It’s fun to laugh at people who are already suffering :: it’s like a 2-for-1 Groupon for a firing squad execution.

Fake Debbie can afford to be scammed because she’s well compensated for her secretarial services. Debbie makes three-times as much money as you wish you made … because I’m just that HUGE {and generous!}. If you don’t believe that :: then I don’t care … because you make less than my secretary.

But the Debbie in today’s episode of The Salty Droid Presents Horrifying Audios isn’t fake.

She’s real. She’s 56 :: she makes $26,000 per year :: she’s recently divorced :: and she doesn’t have a computer or Internet access at home. She saw The Hansen Report – Anthony Morrison Edition infomercial on television and ordered the book. The book hasn’t arrived yet :: but the Mark Shurtleff approved Utah boiler rooms have …

At least two other salesman have already called Debbie :: one of them would have executed the credit-probing :: pain-finding :: script posted earlier. Debbie has good credit :: and she’s afraid :: and alone … so she’s perfect.  Now Chris Bartold is calling to finish the job :: a closer closing …

I’ve disguised Debbie’s voice :: and cut all private information {of which there was very little}. The conversation contained several 20 sec plus pauses where Chris makes Debbie wait … a frequent boiler room tactic. Those pauses have been cut :: as have most of the moments where they were simultaneously speaking and their voices couldn’t be isolated. Otherwise this audio is as I received it. Peoples tell The Droid that this file was given to incoming PMI sales n00bs as a kind of “this is doing it right” training tool.

Chris tells Debbie that she’ll make $25K in the first 45 days :: and $100K in the first six months. After the initial “earn while you learn” six months are up … all of her worries about money will be a thing of the past … into the future … forever and ever amen. The only thing that could possibly hold Debbie back from her unicorn success is a lack of commitment to the 5 – 10 hours per week that building an instant Internet empire requires.

All this for the low-low price of half of Debbie’s yearly income :: on credit cards :: which Chris suggests people on the “Success Team” call “investment cards”. These are the bullet points Chris gives Debbie to write down regarding the ruinous price …

  • tuition — it’s costs as much as college :: so pretend that’s what it is …
  • one time — not really :: other Utah boiler rooms will be calling within the week demanding more money for still more fictitious services
  • short-term — only if you plan to file for bankruptcy soonish :: otherwise a person on a $26K salary will basically never be able to pay off $10K at 10% compounding interest
  • tax-deductible — um … what? sounds like bullshit … maybe Utah’s The Tax Club can help by billing $2500 more to Debbie’s card
  • protected — from getting a refund by abusive practices and credit card company complicity
  • change today! — for giggles … fuck you Chris … fuck you!

Chris then explains how it’s possible to make money on the Internet. Basically :: by ranking number one in Google for Netflix … or Nike.

Easy :: breezy :: beautiful … impossible.

Before all you stupid trolls start your senseless “buyer beware” :: “she never should have fallen for that” :: “it was her greed” :: poppycock … please consider this classic sequence … which is also an excellent encapsulation of the entire story of the fake robot blog … and of Mark Shurtleff’s idea of a “model industry” …

Chris Bartold :: Do you know what a search engine is?

Real Debbie :: sort of …

>> bleep bloop

178 thoughts on “Scamming Two Debbies”

  1. That is one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard. When he tells her “even if it costs a little bit to get you started”…Jesus! And he tells her to write down dates and amounts, $25,000 in forty days, $100,000 in six months which she obediently does. I wanted to vomit when he told her “fear stands for false evidence appearing real”. The way that rolls off his forked tongue you can tell he’s said it millions of times.

    “Obviously it takes money to make money.” Oh, you can see him going in for the kill here. “We have costs we have to absorb.” When he offers her the chance to have a coke and a smile with Anthony you can tell he’s expecting a better response. As he begins to convince her to use her excellent credit to “pay her tuition” of $9,640…oh fuck.

    To listen to a human being being swindled out of their meager income is one of the vilest things I’ve ever heard. How do these shitbags sleep at night?

  2. Who is Chris?

    One of the owners of PMI or some nut job they recruit to work and trade their soul for commissions?

    1. @RT,

      I’ll bet that even the tea-lady morphs into an ‘Account Manager’ when there’s a spare phone line free.

  3. Man that guy is a God damn motherfucking asshole…Excuse the mature words salty…However nice to see that he spelled his last time easily so we can understand it:Bartold.
    This guy must be really willing to do everything to get the green, cuz he didn’t even tried to play his role right. ( you can easily hear him reading).Btw wtf is up with the warranty?Am I missing something?

    1. @Arvin ::

      I don’t know anything about Bartold :: but he’s not the point. This is being done at an industrial scale :: thousands of similarly situated victims per week …

    2. @Arvin,

      He’s only one of dozens if not more in that one boiler room alone — you could hear the others giving the same sick spiel to other poor victims in the background.

      Sick, so very sick! And how the hell is this allowed and even encouraged by these so called “on your side” polititians, not to mention the Better Business Bureau itself!

      1. @Bonnie,

        Yes where is the Government. Oh yea, telling you how great your life will be if they can only get your vote. And your friends vote, you got family? Will they vote? Do you need a ride to vote? We can do that too. We’ll pick you up to vote. How many friends will you be taking?

        And the Better Business Bureau. Really?

        They are just a scam in itself. I don’t know where so many people believe this is like a Government entity.

        They are scam franchises out to get money in turn to maintain so called business reports. The more money you pay, the better your report can be. Research it. That’s how they work.

    1. @Ryan Townsend,

      …who started out as a tele-marketing grunt, became a trainer and the rest is history.

  4. Wow, and I thought MLM was bad!

    And he forgot the other meaning of fear: F*ck Everything And RUN!!!!

  5. I don’t know how these disgusting people can sleep at night, but I’m pretty sure I won’t be tonight after listening to that.

    1. @what??,

      I completely agree and the one thing that kept coming to my mind while listening to this was Colleen Conaway — and how not only this woman, but many, many other people probably will (or already have) come to the same tragic end one way or another as Colleen did once they found out that they have been taken and they were never going to get their money back, no way, no how. Although I do believe that that, along with the combination of being humiliated and belittled and degraded by the great James Arthur Ray as well was the fatal combination that did Colleen in.

      How can they sleep at night? Indeed!

      1. @Bonnie ::

        Of course we will never know now … but I don’t think Colleen’s death fits the epiphany about being scammed pattern. That realization tends to come slowly … over weeks or months. The facts in Colleen’s case are more supportive of a total :: and sudden :: mental breakdown brought on by breakdown-targeting LGAT sequences and conformity-targeting personal abuse.

        But … the bullshit on that tape is leading to suicide :: alcohol abuse :: depression :: divorce :: etc. No doubt what-so-ever that hundreds of lives have been ended :: and thousands destroyed :: by this cat crap.

        The Alliance for Lifelong Learning … or not.

        1. @SD, great work saving us all from ourselves. If only you’d been around to protect previous generations from the evils of Rock and Roll, countless innocent lives could have been spared. Just out of curiosity, did Tipper Gore smell nice when you sat next to her during her valiant attempts to force Congress to protect hapless teenagers from suicide, alcohol abuse and depression caused by the lyrics to “We’re not gonna take it”?

          It’s hard to decide who thinks “Real Debbie” is the bigger idiot- the Telemarketer or you. Personally, I hang up the moment I realize I’m on a sales call. Also, I’ve never killed myself after listening to a Judas Priest album. But man, am I EVER glad that there’s people like you out there, relentlessly dedicated to acting like spastic jackholes while claiming that “you’re only doing it to HELP people”.

          1. @Brien ::

            Why am I not surprised this comment came from Utah? St. George no less.

            Tell the ginger king I’m sorry … no wait … don’t.

  6. Regarding Mr. Chris… You can tell he’s been at it a while -or is just a ‘natural’- but he really needs to work on his syncopation, inflection, and lead-way performance if he wants to play with the ‘big dogs’ of persuasionary predation. Nonetheless… Hey Chris if you’re looking for a fast riches & a ride to the club fed with your buddies… keep up the good work!

    But aside from this particular and semi-effective performance it’s clear their scripts have the seal of NLP Approval. I wonder what Erickson/Bandler & Co. would have to say about this?

    The really sad thing is exactly as Salty pointed out… the REAL problem is that this predatory selling script is being played out thousands and thousands of times a day across the country… And something has to be done on 4 fronts:

    1) The families and friends of these modern day marauders need to ‘look past’ the free dinners, vacations, and good times and realize that the one they supposedly ‘care about’ and is “such a philanthropist” is in all reality a criminal and they need to help them get help from a counselor specializing in sociopathics BEFORE…

    2) The Government gets enough public awareness and pressure on them (like submitting complaints and reporting issues via the channels mentioned here: to force the government to actually DO something about it other than accept bribes and backroom favors… and…

    3) More education needs to be made available to the public at large regarding ‘how’ the schuksters work… salty is doing a good job here as an expositor… which he has adamantly -and for good reasons- stated that he will strictly stay. So we need someone /some entity to rise up in that arena to arm people with the knowledge they need to break the -quite literal- spell they are under.

    I have wanted to do something like that for some time as I know all about persuasionary and hypnotic marketing… and I’ve already burned a few bridges with the IM crowd anyways! ;)

    But to honest… and please no cheap shots here… I simply don’t have enough time to do it on my own. I don’t know if it’d work as a collaborative effort either… but if there are any other sales-pros, marketers, entrepreneurs or knowledgeable contributors who believe in doing things ‘the right way’ (ie. selling and delivering a product/service with integrity) and would like to help create the material to help others know how to keep from falling prey to guys like this… email me at … we’ll see how this goes.

    Keep on keepin on Salty… good stuff!

    1. @How Does This Happen? ::

      Anthony Morrison was on CNN being touted as an expert in starting small businesses in tough times.

      James Arthur Ray was on Oprah … and the Today show … and made a second home on CNN.

      Dan Kennedy was speaking at the Motivate conferences right after George H.W. Bush.

      There are 200 complaints with the California AG and the LAPD about John Paul Raygoza and his boiler room.

      The Utah Attorney General publicly supports the mission of The Alliance … and placed his son within it’s demonic super-structure.

      If you want to “educate” people about this bullshit :: then you best bring your sword. People who come in peace will be buried alive … or {even worse} will become part of the problem once the darkness absorbs and recycles their good deeds into just another part of the problem.

      1. @SD, is it a good thing to be near George Bush? I think It’s what those guys from the seduction community call a DLV (Demonstration of Lower Value)


      2. @SD,

        Why doesn’t Kennedy get more heat?

        It seems like every single one of these guys refers to him as their “source” of teaching … almost like he is their “marketing deity”.

        Is Kennedy just past his prime and past the point where nobody gives a rip about him??

        1. @RT, Interesting thing about Kennedy; yes, he is something of a “godfather” in the self-improvement industry (along with Jim Rohn), I’ve been in 2 coaching groups dedicated to the music studio business that have really worked for us, one of which is heavily Kennedy-influenced. It was this successful coaching that ultimately made us consider the Graziosi/PMI scam that took us for a bit of a ride. I would say we’ve experienced the brighter and darker sides of coaching, and they’re very different, but all influenced by the same thinking and source materials. In good coaching programs you’re probably no more than 1 or 2 degrees removed from uglier stuff. We thankfully managed to weather the storm this year and have learned to be more careful…

          1. @Aaron ::

            Can we see a link to the successful music studio business that resulted from the coaching then?

            There is no bright side to any of this …

  7. And ‘The Anthony’ for biggest piece of shit in a {non} supporting role goes to ……
    Chris Bartold

    Most memorable phrase
    Why You?
    Why Now?
    Why The Internet?

    Dear Douchebag Bartold,
    Don’t let the fact that she makes $26k, hasn’t read the book – heck, she hasn’t even received the book!….
    Don’t let all that stand in your way.
    You just keep reading from the script.


    1. @Fake Blogger ::

      I thought …

      Why You?
      Why Now?
      Why the Internet?

      … was the highest low point as well.

      It was immediately preceded by like 2 minutes of hold time too … then he pops back on and barfs that shit out.

    2. @Fake Blogger,

      What struck me was she doesn’t even own a computer. How sad that these guys have radar and know how to target people.

  8. “I’ll speak from the heart here…”

    You mean like this…?

    “If you haven’t got the book, that’s okay. We’re still going to work with you. We actually prefer… this may seem crazy… we actually want to time it to where you haven’t got the book. You’re going to get much more out of it if we can give you some assignments to work on now.”


    1. @Ryan Healy, I hear their assignment system is actually quite effective – for them…

      You see, Assignments =

      1. Gimme personal information about you for me to use against you and any common sense that might annoyingly get in the way of…

      2. Gimme you monies.

      Eazy peezy lemon squeezy!

    2. @Ryan Healy,

      I’ll bet her credit card is hit, multiple times, long before she gets the book, if she ever gets the book. (Well, its a buck or so saved and these things add up in a numbers game)

    1. @Ken ::

      Agreed … as long as “these guys” is read to include Mark Shurtleff … one of the worst people on Earth.

  9. After being so sad and pissed off about the sales pitch and
    all the other pitches going on across “the universe”, I did
    realize about that Chris told the truth about one thing
    to Debbie:


    False Evidence Appearing Real – because it made a good summary of his whole sales pitch, which is easy to see in a simple type of True/False Test:

    * If I feel we can create a success story from you, we’re going to bring you aboard the team. FALSE
    * We need to see the benefit of working with you. POSSIBLY TRUE depending on Debbie’s credit card limits and available balance.
    * I know that it works. FALSE
    * We want you to have fun. We want you to make money with it. FALSE
    * Our jobs is to help you move towards becoming financially independent. FALSE
    * If you put the time into this (5 – 10 hours per week) and do the things we ask you to do, you will find success and you will do well with it. FALSE
    * If I have to call you daily ’til we get to your goals that’s what we’ll do. FALSE
    * Fear does a crazy thing to you. It can either motivate you or hold you back. FALSE – Can also protect you from sociopathic predators.
    * We’ll do a lot of the work for them to get results quickly. FALSE
    * We want you to have $25,000 cleared by July 25th. FALSE
    * You’ve just made $25,000 in a month for not doing a whole hell of a lot. FALSE.
    * Affiiliate Marketing is brand new. FALSE.
    * There’s very little competition. FALSE.
    * You’re not going to just make your money back and call it a day, you’re going to keep on going. FALSE.
    * We “give” you software. FALSE.
    * We can get you through the first monetary goal of $25,000 right now without you having to have one. FALSE

    Bonus Question:
    You’re going to be able to do this over the entire universe. FALSE.
    …Aslo, WTF? Did he actually say the “entire universe???”. Answer: TRUE.

    One thing I found out when making this test above is how difficult it can be to listen, type, cry, and barf all at one time.

    And I had to remember that this mr. Bartold man has told us about that he is “the leader” of an army of 100 scammer-soldiers underneath his command and we can also know from SD and other places that there are thousands of other mr. Bartold’s across the entire universe, or at least our current planet.

    Fuck all the “Chris Bartold’s” of the world. Fuck them ALL.

    1. @Jack, why Jack, how can you say that – if she gets 189 people a week for six weeks to sign up on NetFlix @ $20 each, she’ll make $25K.

  10. I actually had to turn that off – couldn’t listen to more than a few minutes of it. That’s some guy destroying a womans life and getting away with it. I hope these bastards burn in hell (they believe it in after all). Just when I think I’ve fucked my life up I hear people doing that for a living and figure “ye know…I didn’t turn out so bad”.

    1. @Scriobh ::

      Actually :: the people at the top of the ownership structure are all Mormons … but most of the sales staff aren’t. To keep it in the local parlance … they’re mostly jack-mormons.

      Also :: FYI :: Mormons don’t really believe in “Hell” in the traditional Christian sense. Hell is mostly just for the devil.

    1. @Bucknul, it is, but so is stealing. However, when you have the attorney general of utah in your back pocket, who gives a shit. You’ve got a get out of jail free card, unless the feds come after you. Which is why they’re trying to butter up their federal representatives with stolen money.

    2. @Bucknul ::

      Isn’t telling a poor old lady that she’ll make $100K in the next 6 months a violation of the law?

      1. @SD, @RafaMarquez: You are both correct. But violations of tax laws are Federal, so you need not rely on the State AG.

        Telling an old lady she will make $100k is much harder to stick to someone.

        1. @Bucknul,

          Hey, watch your tongue, youngin’! — I’m a bit older than that “old lady” and I don’t consider myself an “old lady”

          :) ;)

        2. @Bucknul ::

          18 U.S.C. § 1341

          18 U.S.C. § 1343

          18 U.S.C. § 1349

          What’s lacking is the will :: not the way …

      2. @SD, especially since she can make so much money with Ed Dale like what I found out about in his ft-ftc (fuck the ftc) mr. Dale sent onto me:

        “I got this email a couple of days ago…

        Thanks for all your help. Let me know if you need a testimonial or anything. In fact I’ll do one anyways:

        Mentoring By Ed

        *Income before mentoring $3000 per month
        *Income goal established during first meeting: $40000 per year
        *Income during mentoring $6000 per month. ($5000 after 2nd month)
        *Guaranteed Income from 1st October: $10,000 per month

        I’m a very happy camper and made my investment back within 3 months (could have been sooner).

        A good guy to have around and its been great despite me catching pneumonia for a month and being hospitalised, and having home destroyed by 2 floods (all within 6 weeks of each other).

        My best year ever!


  11. I wonder at least in the short term if this will make it harder for these boiler rooms to recruit sales people given the fact that they may end up on a blog like this?

  12. Here is the odd thing about this post … it is so obviously and blatantly wrong and disgusting that even the scammers and wannabe’s aren’t showing up to defend it.

    It hits you like a ton of bricks when you hear that and multiple it by the size of the scam.

    Then it’s like what the hell do I do?

    Kind of like seeing pictures of impoverished people in 3rd world countries … it’s crazy that it exists but then you feel powerless.

    Just my observations.

    Obviously this is bringing awareness to people so this blog is helping for sure.

    1. @RT ::

      The Syndicate is almost destroyed.

      The same is going to happen to The Alliance … so help me jeebus.

      I can’t win um all :: but I can win the ones I decide to win.

      This must stop … this will stop.

        1. @Cosmic Connie ::

          Exactly though …

          That would be a huge fucking win. What’s so preposterous is that we are tolerating them in our midst. They are barely cloaked :: and that bodes so ill for everything and everyone …

          1. @SD, Agreed, but remember that Kevin True-dough’s pyramid scheme, the Global Information Network (G.I.N.), is “located” in Nevis/St. Kitts, AND the FTC has had its eye on True-dough for years and has fined him millions, yet he continues to fleece the people in our midst. His infomercials still play round the clock on American TV.

            But at the very least, more and more people are being awakened to the scams, and you have played no small part in this, bless your fake little robot heart!

    2. @RT, one small thing that we can do is go to the reviews section of etc. and write the truth about this loser’s books (or at least check off “agree” to someone else’s negative reviews). I see that some people have already had a field day.

      Unfortunately, most of the people being targeted with these scams will not see the reviews but it could at least have an impact on book sales.

      Thanks Salty for all that you are doing.

      1. @Maureen, Does PMI have a book?

        I am looking forward to the unfolding of the inner workings of the principals in this scam.

        Is Shurtleff mormon too? Shouldn’t they be excommunicating all of these d-bags?

        1. @Fascinated,

          “Is Shurtleff mormon too? Shouldn’t they be excommunicating all of these d-bags?”

          Only if they do something really vile, like drink coffee.

        2. @Fascinated,

          I was referring to Anthony Morrison’s books (not the Hansen Report but he has some others there)

      2. @Maureen, I think using Amazon as a forum to “spread the word” is actually a pretty good idea, as long as comments are posted in an appropriate discussion section (particularly as a response to someone else’s five-star review of the book in question). Naturally such a comment should not be posted as a review of the book unless the writer actually has read it and wants to use his or her review as a framework for the more important message. To post a phony review is a surefire way to get a comment eliminated.

        And of course, one would want to avoid copying and pasting the identical remark in numerous discussions. Even if all of the copy-and-pastes don’t get discovered and deleted, I think that critics should strive to play fair even if the Spamazon gamers don’t.

        Oh, and don’t forget the works of Mock Victor Hamstrung too.

        Not all of the people targeted by these scammers will see the negative remarks and one-star reviews, but some will. And you can be sure that the scammers or some of their minions read ’em. Many will do whatever they can to get the negative stuff deleted, but I suspect that just knowing that more and more people are getting wise to them puts a bit of a damper on their free-for-all.

  13. The Tax Club would nail her for way more than 2500 –
    No joke some of the buyers drop 30-40k before
    they are done running through the mill…

    There should be a battle of D’bags PMI vs. The Tax Club,
    however they are almost one in the same, I think Tedd Johnson, the owner
    of the Tax Club actually was a team leader at PMI back in the day…

    1. @donor ::

      Yeah :: you got it there at the end …

      PMI vs. Tax Club would be me vs. me myself and I

      This is a leads business … you NEVER share leads … if you are found to be sharing {still warm} leads … then you are one and the same with those whom u are “sharing” …

      You hear that you fucking predators? I gots your game figured … whatcha gonna do about it?

  14. This is simply disgusting and disturbing.

    I was suseptible to all this garbage in my mid-20s. Luckily for me I just lost a job and was broke, with all my credits maxed, so I physically could not spend tens of thousands on New Wage bullshit, etc.
    I tried though….

    I spent money on Bill Harris’s Holosync and met him at One Heart/Mind event in NYC. Basically, a fat ass was sitting on a chair and talking for 2 days $1K gone.

    Met James Ray when he was doing a promo for his Harmonic Wealth book and recruiting people to Spiritual Warrior stuff. Luckily, I didn’t have the money.

    Ryan Lee’s Marketing Seminar in CT – $2k. A lot of sale pitches.

    I was also taken for a ride by Prosper, Inc. Someone shared my email with someone and someone else gave away “The One Minute Interpreneur”. Got upsold on Prosper coaching in something or other. Took me 2 years to pay it off.

    I wish I were much more cynical back then and I wish I was never shown “The Secret”.

    I hope to do better in the future.

    Great job Salty. I wish I could help.

    1. @Glad I Was Broke, … Quote “I wish I could help” …

      1) who says you’re not helping? Posting here is a great start.

      2) file a complaint or share your experience on social media (the syndicate a and b teamer’s have been making a strong push there… The longer they remain there without exposition… The harder it’ll be to take the robber-kings off the mountain)

    2. @Glad I Was Broke, Everybody let’s thanks “Glad I Was Broke” and hug “Glad I Was Broke” for sharing that with us.

    3. @Glad I Was Broke, like the other commentors have already said, you are helping by simply sharing your experience. I don’t know how many people visit this site on a daily basis, but it’s safe to say that lots of eyes will be looking at your post and some of them could be saved from the trouble that you went through.

    4. @Glad I Was Broke, I fell for the “stores online” scam a number of years ago. Took years for the dunning letters to stop – when I stopped the monthly payments. The credit agencies took their negative reports off the record when I sent them online reports of various attorney generals taking them up on charges and stopping their free “intake” fancy lunch and breakfast “free” seminars”.

      Listening to this audio now, I see how much I have learned since then.

      Thank goodness for Salty’s work and this forum — as I see I have the “gullibility gene” – and it must constantly be monitored for safe survival.

      Thanks,Salty and friends.

  15. This is sick. I could only listen to the first 11:30 seconds before it became too much. This is tragic.

    I hope these cockroaches enjoy some nice jail time.


  16. So, If you Google Mike Koenigs…

    Salty’s Blog is like the 4th link down…

    AH HA HA HA!!!

    Try it just for fun! And Click the Link Just For Fun! And stay on the page for a few minutes just for fun! And maybe click a link just for fun!

    Fun Fun Fun!

    Mike Koenigs Loves Fun! And SEO!

    1. @How Does This Happen?,

      That is one of the most inspiring things I’ve seen.

      even google is recognising the good work the droid does.


      1. @Jack, btw, I can’t afford the $350 for the YouTube Secret Weapon DVDS so what I wanted to ask about is if I can just pay for 1/5 of a DVD for $14. Otherwise I’ll probably just find a good book about some of the secret weapons on Amazon.

      2. @Jack, a lot of people (those who haven’t been conned by Brad Fallon) have no idea what a total bastard the man is. Con men don’t beat you up and take your wallet, they work on becoming your friend.

        1. @Unicorn Army, Thx because it makes sense to me more now why she would post here. And also I can be glad that at least probably she didn’t have walker or Jenkins for friends yet maybe I couldn’t afford a part of one of her DVDs.

          1. @Jack, it’s a shame you can’t afford all her DVDs, now you’ll never have your own Youtube channel to bewilder us with. Maybe Youtube has a few thousand online help files you could read, or even some free videos on how to use Youtube.

            1. @Unicorn Army, I made a YouTube account but still can’t put anything on it, because I don’t know really what I can put there, but your idea can help me or also probably I can get her DVDs in installments and assemble them at home.

          2. @Jack ::

            You’re going to be even more confused when I tell you that I mentioned YTSecretWeapon two years ago this month :: because at that time it was half owned by none other than Brad Fallon and Andy Jenkins …


            Hopefully that’s not the case anymore :: but I’m thinking you shouldn’t buy the first disc until we know for sure.

            IMO :: Julie is too good to be talking to Pam Brossman {who I remember being a belligerent supporter of Perry Belcher … and who I see pitching Ryan Deiss right above the Julie article} … and she’s too good to be still mentioning every name she mentioned in that article … and she’s too good to be still sitting around with Paul Colligan who can’t seem to stop sitting around with Mike Koenigs.

            But my opinion doesn’t always matter :: seeing as how I’m a “poisonous spectre” and everything …

            1. @SD,

              Brossman is as bad as Andros…she “creates” reality to win CONtests, and to sell frauducts…

            2. @SD, My plan was to only buy part of the first disc at first, but still I want to see and read about your information first ahead of time, then.

            3. @_Cartman_, Great video outing Pam Brossnan. As usual, you did a good job mapping out the huge, gaping hole in that b.s. story. It is pretty outlandish…she lost her home but kept the vacation home? That only makes sense in a strange, parallel universe known as “Bullshittia.”

  17. Been listening to that phone conversation between Chris and Debbie. This is my comment, that guy is a sicko and he should be executed.

    1. @Linda Gaffney ::

      I know that feeling … but it’s much scarier to think about the fact that Chris is just a cog reading a script inside of a giant doom machine.

      It’s the masterminds of this consciously evil scheme :: and their political enablers :: who deserve most of the punishments.

      As detailed here regarding another boiler room …

      … most of the sales staff get paid jack shit … come from vulnerable situations themselves … are heavily manipulated … and often drugged.

      1. @SD, Everytime PMI sells hopeful old ladies and other victims then profits will be divided as so…
        Chris and other boiler room sales clowns get about 15-20% of the total amount sold.
        Anthony Morrison, Dean Graziosi and his crew of Scam Jobs gets around a whopping 40% for producing the “lead”.
        Only about 10% will go to clients training, websites and marketing.
        Everything that’s leftover most likely goes to PMI’S overhead like 7 figure exec salaries and private jets

  18. Has anyone heard of a company out of Utah called Meridian Business Consulting? My grandpa ordered a program that he saw on the NBC website called Platinum Profit Formula and received a call from this outfit to register his system. Apparently he spoke with a fellow named Corey who was asking questions about his credit card and bank account balances. He told him that they were inviting a select few to join their advanced program. It sounds like an upsell and a scam to me. He said that Corey was being evasive and not willing to answer his questions, he said that he would have to talk with his director of business development. Any info on whether or not this is a legitimate business opportunity would be greatly appreciated. I have not been able to find any information anywhere on the internet and was hoping someone here might have the lowdown. Thanks in advance, Jason

    1. @Jason Carter,

      Your grandpa sounds like a pretty smart fella to be wary, and you sound like a hell of a nice grandson to be looking out for him.

      Meridian Business Consulting is a tough search because it turns up a lot of legit-looking businesses, both in other states and one with partners who teach biz at SUU.

      However, I found a job listing and hit paydirt:

      “SUPERSTARS ONLY $55K TO $377K
      Don’t even call unless you are an incredible, talented, overachiever…and can prove it. Come build an empire within our fine, progressive company. We are in the International Consultative Marketing industry, but we don’t hire backgrounds. We hire top producers. If you’re average, you can earn $55K with us. If you are a top star, you can earn $377K plus. Young or old, if you’ve got the stuff, we’ll know.

      Contact us at:

      How to Apply
      Contact: Heather or Jen
      Phone: 801-858-3505


      So we go to

      Where their testimonials page hits the usual scammer warning-signs:

      *So-called Web experts who sell via cold-calling boiler rooms*
      “I found Meridian – or they found me -I am very glad I took the call, listened and stayed on board.”

      *You don’t have to know anything about the Web to make money online.*
      “I am not really an electronic or web genius. In fact, I started using the internet regularly just two years ago.”

      *In fact, you can make huge money online!*
      “We have sold $2,000.00 in the first 11 days.”

      But wait, there’s more!

      We can construct a timeline!

      01-Nov-10 Domain registered privately (from Whois lookup)

      07/2011 Incorporated, per

      24-Aug-11 Domain registration updates (from Whois lookup) [Probably when they went live and moved the name server from the registrar to the Web hosting company.]

      09/02/2011 First BBB complaint filed! In the Advertising / Sales Issues complaint category. From:

      (That LookUpBook page says the contact is “KENAI HOLDINGS” and MBC is an investment and holding company and investment counselors and consultants. A search for Kenai Holdings shows an Aug. 4, 2004 registration as an LLC in Santa Fe, NM, and a 08/03/2009 registration as an LLC in Carson City, NV. Both were through Registered Agents, and after another Google search I doubt that the names listed on the Nevada registration were true.)

      1. @Lanna, Michael David Adamson is the owner of Meridian Business Consulting (Kenai Holdings). Previously owned Spectrum Education Products until that got too much bad press. Adamson rebranded and moved on selling the same shit in a box. Typical boiler room scenario.

        Michael Adamson Owner
        Cell 801.599.2167
        8037 Royal Ln Sandy UT 84095

        Trevor Crystal – Sales Floor Mgr (puppet)
        (Mike’s brother in law)
        Cell 801.824.2310

  19. Crap, I did the research and wrote a long post with lots of links in reply to this, but I guess it didn’t post? Or was moderated?

    I found their website from an job listing for boiler room closers. Here’s their URL:

    You can see classic scam tactics in their testimonials – people saying you don’t have to know much about the Web to make $11,000 a month online.

    There’s also a distinct timeline. Their website was first registered in November 2010. They incorporated in July 2011, and the website registration was modified in August 2011, which was probably when the site went live. On September 2, 2011, they received their first BBB complaint regarding their advertising/sales.

  20. Many thanks for researching this company for me, I am very grateful. I have let my family know to stay away if they call him again. It’s unbelievable to me that companies like this exist. My grandpa is very trusting and could have very well given them his credit card numbers. It takes a lot of nerve for a total stranger to call a senior citizen an ask for credit card and financial information. I don’t know how these people sleep at night. Despicable! I wish there was a way to get the word out about this company before they get to somebody else s grandparents. Please let me know if you have any ideas. Thanks again, Jason

    1. @Jack,

      Nice find, Jack. Definitely a dare to SD. At the bottom, he even addresses SD’s tagline:

      Forget everything you have ever been told and any of your preconceived ideas about making money online.

      Such as “… you can’t make money online.”

  21. I’m putting this comment here because it has a “Mark Victor Hansen” tag. The other day Joe Vitale published a blog post about a newly-released (suppressed for decades!) book by Napoleon Hill, “Outwitting the Devil,” in which Hill has a conversation with — you guessed it — the Devil. Whether it’s supposed to be a literal or metaphorical Devil I really couldn’t say, but apparently some selfish-help fans are finding the book disturbing and difficult to read.

    I submitted this comment to the conversation on Joe’s blog:

    Sounds like an interesting book. The Devil is a convenient metaphor or symbol, whether he/she/it literally exists or not. And, of course, many famous authors (Mark Twain and C.S. Lewis being just two examples) have imagined interactions with the Devil, who is a perennially fascinating character and spices up any story. In real life it seems that the “Devil,” literal or metaphorical, appears in many places — not just in our political and economic systems (anyone here heard of Occupy Wall Street?), but also in organized religion, in cults, and sometimes in so-called spiritual paths or self-help schemes whose survival depends upon manipulating people into spending all the money they have in the world for dubious products. Apparently there are numerous Devils in Spirit’s clothing, who end up victimizing people while pretending that they are freeing them from victimhood. (I noticed the edition of “Outwitting the Devil” that is currently being sold on Amazon has a Foreword by Chicken soup co-author Mark Victor Hansen, who has in recent years been associated with outrageous infomercial schemes with a young huckster named Anthony Morrison.)

    Judging by some of the negative reviews about the book, it appears that some readers find “Outwitting the Devil” disturbing not just for its ideas but also because it reveals that its author — who is a hero to so many — may have had some serious emotional or mental issues. Perhaps he did, perhaps he didn’t. But I’ve been reading Hill’s authorized biography, “A Lifetime of Riches,” and even though the authors were fans of Hill’s (one was a former colleague), they still managed to reveal that his personal life was a train wreck, and while he may have found riches (eventually) he apparently never really found happiness. Some would argue that his work lives on, and that’s what he’ll be remembered for. But I think it worthy of note that there’s often an incongruity between noble teachings and the everyday realities of the teachers. So perhaps Hill, like most such “teachers,” should be taken with a big grain of salt.

    Joe actually published the comment (he’s been good about publishing my comments recently, albeit generally they’re edited). In this case he conveniently left out the bit I wrote about his buddy Mark Victor Hansen. I don’t see why. I was playing nice, and didn’t even include any mention of or links to Salty Droid’s devastating exposes.

    And here is Joe’s response to me:
    “More people have become millionaires due to Hill’s books than any other author that I’m aware of. Throwing out his books because of his life isn’t very bright. It’s a little like critics who spend their time hurting others rather than creating things to help the world.”

    Hmmm. Do you think I struck a nerve?

    1. @Cosmic Connie,

      That’s just pathetic. I always get a kind of cult-like vibe from these guys and the ease at which they limit the information they allow their followers to read just affirms my suspicion that modern new-age gurus are just wannabe-cult leaders.

      Nice comment btw.

    2. @Cosmic Connie,

      “Hmmm. Do you think I struck a nerve?”

      Actually, I think you struck an ego. That ego, however, does have some nerve.

      1. Thanks @Carl, @RevRon, and @RevRon. Yesterday I submitted a reply to Joe’s response to me. I wrote:

        “I never said or implied that anyone should throw out Napoleon Hill’s books. But I do think the hero worship is a little misplaced, and that was the point I was trying to make. And critics help the world too.
        PS ~ I noticed you redacted the part in my comment where I mentioned that Mark Victor Hansen was involved in a dodgy infomercial scheme.”

        I think I exercised a lot of restraint, but Joe did not publish that comment. At least he hasn’t published it yet. But on the same thread, a long-time Joebot named Kerem (who had contributed an earlier comment to the conversation) piped in:

        Kerem October 26, 2011 at 7:23 am

        I never read critiques. I think people who criticizing everything have too much “free” time.

        Some people criticizing Dr. Vitale’s work too. I searched their names and found nothing. It’s like the saying on the Optimist Creed “To give so much time to improving yourself that you have no time to criticize others.” – that’s really important concept.

        You can not expect to being perfectly “normal” from a genius. Masses accept many crazy creative people as they are. Da Vinci, Van Gogh, Bethoveen… Why not Napoleon Hill?

        Lets face it. NONE of us are perfect.


        I think people who spend a lot of time kissing up to New-Wage gurus have too much “free” time. But I kind of pity Kerem. He’s a young and kinda talented 3D artist who has been kissing up to Joe on Joe’s blog (and on his own blog) for YEARS, and has read just about every book Joe has written, and yet happiness and wealth apparently still elude him.

        Kerem also fails to take into account that Da Vinci, Van Gogh, and Bethoveen [sic] were creative artists who were not trying to make a living telling people how to live their lives. People in the life-advice business deserve to have their own lives scrutinized a bit. And in fact Napoleon Hill was in the life-advice business; he said repeatedly that riches weren’t only measured in monetary wealth, and that relationships were important too. (Duh.)

        He spent decades honing his inspirational message, but in the process he wrecked his family life. And he sank into poverty and despair repeatedly throughout this time, re-emerging and then repeating the cycle. His good name lives on mainly due to efforts of others who rescued the Napoleon Hill Foundation from disaster.

        That’s why I think the hero worship and view of Hill as a role model is a bit misplaced, especially since today’s New-Wage/selfish-help leaders build their shaky empires around the reassurance that one really can “have it all” – not just the material wealth, but also the fulfilling family life and, of course, the glowing physical/mental/emotional/spiritual health. Contemporary gurus all peddle frauducts and flopportunities that they say will get you to Have-It-All Heaven with little more effort than it takes to click the “Add to Cart” button.

        And almost all of them cite Napoleon Hill as one of their abiding heroes, mainly because of “Think and Grow Rich.” (Which, by the way, I find to be a quaint and charming book with a few good ideas and snippets of inspiration, but jeez, that frequent all-caps text gets a little wearisome. I have a 1960 printing and the typography is just plain lousy.) Of course many of the gurus sell their own branded versions of this now-public-domain work, and they bristle at any criticism of their hero (or their potential cash cow).

        I wonder which of Joe’s critics Kerem “searched and found nothing.” Google Cosmic Connie and you’ll find a lot of stuff from my hobby blog. And that’s not even my business site. Google Salty Droid and OMG, what a rich mine. Google Burned By Fire and there’s that blog. And so on.

        Granted, I haven’t written any symphonies or painted any masterpieces, but then, neither did Napoleon Hill and neither has Joe Vitale. In any case I think Kerem’s time would be better spent developing his art than trying to win points with his dubious hero.

        As may be apparent, my main point of contention with Joe on this particular blog post about Hill’s “Outwitting the Devil” is that once again Joe displayed, as my guy Ron put it, intellectual cowardice. He deliberately misconstrued my point about the hero worship of Hill and pretended I was suggesting that people throw out all of Hill’s works just because the guy wasn’t perfect. And his little jab at critics was clumsy and transparent. Of course it’s easy to see why he was doing that, since I expanded my point and noted that many selfish-help gurus — those who claimed to have the secrets to happiness – have had similarly troubled lives.

          1. @Cosmic Connie, I think that “crazy regurgatative” would be more accurate, since the vast majority of his “products” are a rehashing of others’ ideas or his own previous stuff. And let’s face it; the meal is infinitely more palatable the first time around (and some of it, not even then – Struuuutt!).

        1. @Cosmic Connie,

          “he said repeatedly that riches weren’t only measured in monetary wealth, and that relationships were important too”

          That brought back an interesting memory – 1-2 years ago one of the self-help/success gurus in my country had a chat on a business forum I’m on and made it pretty clear that he doesn’t have any friends outside his industry and that he’s not the only one with that kind of a track record.

          I just have to wonder how many USA-gurus fit this picture. Imagine spending your whole life with impressionable fans and people who do what you do. Nobody else to challenge you, or show you a field you don’t understand, or just make you see from a different perspective. Sure, I have some friends who are also marketers or entrepreneurs and they’re great to be around, but to have nobody but these guys would be a bit dull.

          This would explain why they’re telling everybody how great their lives are, though: It’s an affirmation.

          1. Joe has now published several other responses to his Napoleon Hill “Outwitting the Devil” post, but has yet to publish my rebuttal to his remark to me. One comment that he published and gushed over was from the editor/annotator of “Outwitting the Devil,” Sharon Lechter. Her response included a reference to my point about Hill’s life, though she did not name me. She wrote:

            “…Also, in response to some of the other comments, Hill did indeed have a roller coaster life, experiencing many setbacks along his journey to Success. However, he found great happiness and peace along with that success. He shares those low points in his life in order to endear him with his readers. I have yet to met someone with great success who did not experience setbacks along the way. As Hill said many times, ‘With every adversity and every failure comes the seed of an equal or greater benefit.’ It was Hill’s wish that through his writings people would be inspired to recognize those benefits and turn their obstacles into opportunities.”

            Joe fell all over himself proclaiming how honored he was that Sharon Lechter had stopped by to comment, and he agreed: “…I love what you said in your comment about hill’s life. I totally agree. I’ve had rough spots too but it sure would be silly to dismiss all my work due to bumps in the road. Onwards. Thanks for all you are doing to help us all.”

            Once again I tried to submit a comment explaining that I was NOT suggesting that anyone throw out all of Hill’s works just because of his personal imperfections. I also noted that at least Hill was more honest about the fact that success does not come easy, but that today’s Hill wannabes are not nearly so honest. I mentioned that several stars of “The Secret” have had personal and business meltdowns since that film was released, so their advice should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. In that context I mentioned James Ray’s name but no one else’s. And so forth.

            But apparently I have been Truly Banned from Joe’s blog now, because even though I had Java script enabled and all of that stuff, my comment didn’t show up at all, even with the “awaiting moderation” notice. Oh, dear.

            But as I’ve said before, the banned plays on.

            And more pieces are coming together, slowly (I’m never as quick at these things as Salty). Just for the heck of it, I Googled “Salty Droid Sharon Lechter.” And I came up with this result:
            …which includes a comment by Jack about Anthony bragging about meeting Mark Victor Hansen, Sharon Lechter, and other luminaries through his kids’ “charity.”

            When you Google “Anthony Morrison Sharon Lechter” there are numerous results. Not surprisingly, one finds oneself in the same turds-of-a-feather circle jerk.

            Don’t they make a nice couple?

            Then there’s this, which includes a pic of Young Anthony with Old Bob. Apparently Sharon had asked Anthony to speak at the launch event for her previous book.

            Sharon Lechter also co-authored books with that Rich Dad Poor Dad tall-tale spinner, Robert Kiyosaki.

            The point is that it’s little wonder that Joe would have redacted my dig at Anthony Morrison’s/Mark Victor Hansen’s scams in the one comment he DID publish on his “Outwitting the Devil” post. I shouldn’t be surprised, of course, but such obvious intellectual cowardice still does manage to surprise me a little.

            1. @Cosmic Connie, He did make the easy cult-answer-type solution for the critics where he said:

              “More people have become millionaires due to Hill’s books than any other author that I’m aware of. Throwing out his books because of his life isn’t very bright. It’s a little like critics who spend their time hurting others rather than creating things to help the world.”

              So I think he’ll clear it up for us, because I went ahead and asked him about:

              “Hi, it’s good to find out about how Napolean Hill’s book made the most people rich. Do you know where we can go to find the statistical data on it, so I can compare it with some of the good interesting research methodology I found out about when I looked at Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers book?”

              I expect many detailed research reports-studies about it from mr. Vitale.

            2. Jack: Good comment for Joe’s blog. I have a feeling it won’t be published. Or if he does publish it and deigns to reply, he’ll tell you how ridiculous and/or useless statistics are in this context. For him, the “proof” is in all of those jillionaires running around who named Hill’s classic work as one of their influences. And Joe and his followers all know who they are, so it’s a waste of his time to list them.

              As you may have noticed, it is almost obligatory in some circles to say one was influenced by the immortal work of Napoleon Hill. Of course this is a far cry from someone actually becoming a millionaire BECAUSE of Hill’s books, but that’s one of those fine points for which busy people like Joe don’t have time.

              BTW, Joe has mentioned “Outliers” in passing in his Miracles Coaching promo book, “Attract Money Now” and on his blog. He confirms Gladwell’s assertion that it takes about 10,000 hours of practice to become really good at something. Which of course is kind of a contradiction to the instant, effortless stuff he preaches elsewhere.

  22. If anybody wants to go around doubting ClickBank’s idea of cleaning up their marketplace, then go ahead and keep on doubting about it, because I just found out this from mr. Morrison about his Fast Cash Commissions WINNER!!:-(

    “CB #1 ALL Thanks To You!
    Posted on October 29, 2011
    Excited to announce we have hit #1 on Clickbank in 4 days… ALL THANKS TO YOU!

    We can’t thank you enough but we have some exciting news.

    We JUST found another front end test that bumped conversions by another 27%
    so that means MORE commissions for you.

    Don’t forget about all the commissions you will be receiving next week with
    the 7 day rebills & every 30 days with the 3 pay upsell.”

    Here are some people he thanks so much that probably Debbie might have a word or 2 for:

    Launch Contest Leaderboard – Over $65K in Cash + Your Own Infomercial

    The following is the leaderboard and the prize they will in IF they hold onto that
    position till the end of launch.

    1. Cory Miller – Leading by 13 sales now… uh oh! – $25K + Infomercial
    2. Sal Haque & Sean Miller – At this rate these guys will have an infomercial soon – $15K
    3. Ewen Chia – Moves up a few spots and right on the heels of #2 – $10K
    4. Charles Mutrie – Been bringing the heat all week long and close to the top! – $7K
    5. Paul Ponna – Literally 6 sales behind Ewen – $5K
    6. Blake Barrett & Jerome Chapman – Moves up 2 spots and just getting started! – $3K
    7. Dan Brock – “Hit that” list one more time maaaannnn – $1.5K
    8. Josh & Craig – I see these guys moving up a few spots this weekend for sure – $750
    9. Grayson Brookshire – Got one more left in you?- $500
    10. Alan Magliocca & Hitesh Juneja- Just 12 sales from to hop 3 spots- $500
    11. Darren Salkeld & Dave Nayavich – At this pace the top 5 BETTER watch out!!!!
    12. Winter & Corey – Appreciate all the support! You guys have been amazing!
    13. Bill Mcrea – We are dying to see what would happen if you unleash the traffic!
    14. Travis Stephenson – Your support won’t be forgotten my man! Keep it coming!
    15. Bitto Sharma – Steady all week long… time to turn it up for the weekend!
    16. Brian Litman – SERIOUS traffic my man… Don’t stop!
    17. Jay & Matt – Words can’t express how grateful I am for you guys
    18. Ryan Moran – Just a few sales from top 15!
    19. Matt Benwell – Insane EPC’s.. A little more traffic and you are in the top 10!
    20. Austin Walsh – There he is! Time to crank it up!

    Just outside Top 20… Gary Ambrose, Jennifer Leadbetter, Tim Bekker

    Way more guys hopping on every minute so it is about get REALLY interesting!

    $26,000 FINAL Pre Launch Leaderboard (October 18 – October 24th)

    Here are the final results for the Pre Launch! Thank you so much for all your support
    and looking forward to crushing it with all of you during launch week!

    1. Jerome & Blake – $12K
    2. Alex Shelton – $6K
    3. Austin Walsh – $3K
    4. Media Antics – $3K
    5. Ewen Chia – $1K
    6. Jennifer Leadbetter – $750
    7. Ryan Moran – $500
    8. CB Leads Team – $500
    9. Tate Bros – $500
    10. Loyal9 – $500

  23. This all sounds like a carbon copy of the Online Hosting Network scam (OHN) – boiler rooms selling cookie cutter affiliate link farm websites and ‘coaching’ for thousands of dollars. Of course the ‘coaching’ is worthless and the websites are never going to earn anything.

    This is the OHN scam:

    As for Anthony Morrison, the good folk on this thread have done some excellent digging:

  24. HELP!!!! I bought into the PMI education. Told I had 7 days to change my mind. Yesterday was sunday and 7 days no way to get through to the customer service. Today noanswer. Called my credit card and they are going to start a dispute. Am I to late? 7 days? Any help would be appreciated.

    1. @Linda,

      I’m sorry this happened, Linda. We’ve heard some people managed to get refunds from scammers, and some didn’t. Some successfully disputed the charge through their credit card companies, and others had their disputes dismissed.

      It’s not too late to keep trying, though.

      Keep calling and trying to get through. Keep a call log of the date, time and number you call and what happens. If you reach a person, make sure you get their name and write down what they tell you. This will help you call them on their B.S. and build a case to present to the credit card company and anyone else you have to get involved.

      If you haven’t done so already, call your your credit card company RIGHT NOW and request that they immediately cancel that credit card and issue a new one with a new number. Check your statement and dispute any fraudulent charges right away.

      Click the “Complaints” tab at the top and follow the links to report this to all applicable parties. Then click the “Contact” tab and drop Salty/Jason a note with a way to get in touch. He may have special resources to help people fight PMI.

      Good luck. I hope you have a happy resolution to report back to us.

  25. Hey Y’all,
    Just a note to thank everyone for the low-down on that Meridian company. They have had my husband and me “hooked” on their line for a week now, and in our conversation tomorrow night with Derik, the Director of Business Development, we were schduled to be reeled in!

    I’m really glad I did my homework, and I’m really glad you guys were honest about your experiences. You’ve probably saved us a lot of money and a lot of headaches!

    Oh, and a note to Jason Carter..God bless you for watching out for Grandpa.

    Thanks for this site Salty!!!

    1. @Susan, FYI, Meridian Business Consulting was just shut down yesterday by the FTC for not operating with a telemarketing license. I could tell you many MANY more things about them… like Derik Arnovik is a drug abusing bi-polar maniac… but let’s be fair, who isn’t in that office… that includes the owner, Michael Adamson. You saved yourself BIG time by doing your research. If only everyone could be as diligent. Pat on the back!!

        1. @C. Grace, My apologies, the FTC did not shut them down but the State of Utah did due to not having a telemarketing license. However, they were back up and scamming again in 3 days. Right, Mike Adamson?

  26. This is depressing to hear. Sounds pretty damn close to the pitch I was sold on last September as I was pregnant with my first child. The sales pitch also included about 20 minutes of how this is ideal for a mother to be able to spend time enjoying her new baby and make thousands from home. I wish I would have seen this site before reading them my credit card number because now I have $10,315.36 that I am trying to pay off. I followed all of their “training courses” and shit just doesn’t work that way. Does anyone know of action that can be taken from here? I keep leaving messages for them but never get a phone call back. I also talked to the credit card company but am out of my dispute time period. Anyways, I feel like an idiot for falling for such a ridiculous scam and paying the price for an expensive lesson.

    1. @I Fell for it, good on you for realizing your mistake and taking action. If you peruse through many of the comments on this blog you will find that many, many of us fell for some IM scam or another. That “feel like an idiot” symptom is a sign you are on the right track. It can be hard to face our own short comings but don’t beat yourself up too much. As, I said, your in good company here.

      I hope you are able to recover some of the money you lost. Good luck (I’m sure some others here can point you in the right direction).

    2. @I Fell for It,

      Like @What the what says, realizing that you didn’t make “thousands from home” because “shit doesn’t work that way” – as opposed to blaming yourself – means you’re on the right track.

      If the “training courses” you purchased were from Stephen Pierce or someone representing Stephen Pierce, you should email attorney Alan Rosenberg to be added as a plaintiff in a group lawsuit Mr. Rosenberg and his firm are preparing to file against Mr. Pierce in order to recover money for people like you.

      If the courses were from someone else, first go to the Complaints page and click through the links to file complaints with the FTC, IC3, state AG, DA and USPS. If one of those offices gets enough complaints about the same company, they may take legal action that results in you getting some of your money back. Complain to the AGs and DAs where you live and where the company’s located.

      Next, consult a local lawyer. Use the internet, phone book or dial information (411 in the U.S.) to locate your local legal aid service as see if you qualify for their services. If not, check with a regular law firm. Consultations are usually free. Ask them if you have any legal recourse for getting a refund, and whether it’s worth the cost.

    3. @I Fell for It, Contact BOTH your state attorney general’s office, and the state attorney general’s office in the vendor’s state.

      To help ensure you see some action from those agencies:

      Check to see that whoever sold you that garbage has REGISTERED and COMPLIED with all the “business opportunity disclosure” laws in BOTH states (I bet they haven’t).

      Here is a page with links to the various states that have requirements for selling business opportunities (sometimes referred to as SAMP LAWS, or “Seller Assisted Marketing Plan” laws):

      The FTC also has similar requirements on the federal level.

      Use these laws to to your advantage and hammer away until you see action. Remember: the squeeky wheel gets the grease! Hammer! Get your money back. If laws have been violated (as per above), make this a criminal issue.

      Come back here and share your experience for the benefit of others who might be in a similar predicament.

      Good luck!

    4. @I Fell for It,

      Thank you for the info and help. I will post an update if I get anywhere. Thanks again.

    5. @I Fell for It, I also fell for it and at the moment trying to get some money back from them. It is so sad because I wanted to help my grandchildren with their education. If you think you are in a bad position, I am up to 23,000. and am a pensioner on a fixed income. I am going to get a job hopefully to pay my credit cards down. You can call me frightened but this is a very expensive lesson learned. There is a co. called FIAD that will help to get your money back. Yes you will have to pay them something for their work but I think it is worth it! I am in Canada and if we all inform the Attorney Generals Office in the U.S.A. then maybe we can get these operations closed so no one else can get hurt.

      1. Poor Debbie, Her Spiel is pretty much the way mine went down!
        Ha!Ha!Ha! the laughs on me!

      2. @C.Grace ::

        I don’t believe you.

        Email me please and tell me your story …

        FIAD won’t help you get your money back … they are a big old sack of scam.

        I think your comment is from someone representing FIAD … and that it’s 100% fraudulent. It’s happened here before …

        … how bad an idea was it to come back?

        Pretending to be a suffering old lady in order to defraud suffering old ladies really takes the fucking cake.

        1. @SD, Yeah, that really does take the fucking cake. Their slogan should be, “The psychopath’s psychopath.”

          “Ha!Ha!Ha! the laughs on me!”

          Let’s hope that turns out to be the case.

          1. @Joe, Zero-doubt its fraud-commenting. FIAD likes enjoying testing the lowest limits like this page:
            Why We Discontinued Our Membership With The BBB

            vs. BBB page

            “This company is not an accredited Business of the Better Business Bureau. This company has never been accredited with BBB of Southeast Florida and the Caribbean. Misrepresentation of BBB accreditation constitutes false and deceptive advertising and trademark infringement.”

            I’m no fan of BBB, but this one is obvious fraud from FIAD.

        2. @SD,

          According to teh interw3b’s #1 authority on interw3b newspeak Urban Dictionary, FIAD = Fall In A Ditch.

          Kinda apt, really.

      3. @C.Grace, Please go to join the FIAD Spammers over up on ScamBook, because then at least we can have the spammers spamming about scam-services for scams on the Scammy ScamBook scam site.

        1. @Jack,

          I guess FIAD is sort of like those “services” that promise that they can get the IRS to forgive some or all of an individual’s unpaid back taxes.

          Furry cows moo and decompress.

  27. And on the phony altruism front, there is big news from Mr. Fire. He recently gave an update on his Operation Y.E.S. gimmick (, which was originally “launched” in March 2009 with the stated purpose of ending homelessness and foreclosures in one day.

    I always wondered how those terrible problems could be ended in just one day, and I was on constant lookout for signs that the day had come and gone and I had just missed it. At one point a few months ago (as I no doubt mentioned on another thread on this blog), I even asked Joe point-blank on his blog what Operation Y.E.S. had actually done for the homeless.

    He responded with, “Why don’t you ask the people we’ve helped?” I said I didn’t know whom to ask. After I pressed him a little more he finally said he and his Op Y.E.S. peeps were getting ready to launch a huge book about the problem; they were just trying to figure out how to give that book maximum impact. Shortly afterward I got banned from commenting on Joe’s blog, but I think it was because of that Nap Hill thing I mentioned here earlier (October comment somewhere above).

    Still, I wondered about Op Y.E.S. Then I read Joe’s May 1, 2012 blog post.

    Besides sharing the obligatory Buddha quotation to demonstrate his faux-spiritual cred, and taking the usual opportunities to mention and link to his Miracles “Coaching” (for which, as you may recall, he partners with Utah boiler room Prosper Inc.), Mr. Fire is solidifying his latest True Mission:

    “The clear answer for me is this: I need to complete my movement to end homeslessness [sic] and stop foreclosures.

    “Called Operation YES [dangling participle alert! ~CC], I’ve been spending time, energy and money (tens of thousands of dollars) on making it a reality for several years now. As some of the people helping me have mentioned, we’ve never worked so hard for so little in return.

    “Still, this is important. While there are groups and individuals doing much to help the homeless and those struggling, I don’t see anyone doing what I feel is necessary: reveal a 3-step way to stop foreclosures — and do it in one day.

    “With that in mind, I have committed my resources to make this happen. As it stands, we will do the event in Austin, Texas next April. I wanted to do it sooner, but with the presidential election diverting attention this year, I’ve been advised against it…”

    All of which raises the question: Is the mystery solved at last? Is that what he means by ending foreclosures in one day — not that all homelessness and foreclosures can literally be ended in one day, but that he can teach his magickal 3-step program in one day? Once again, his cryptic writing raises more questions than it answers.

    Hypnotic, eh?

    And I wonder which of those people helping him have “worked so hard?” He dropped James Arthur Ray from the list soon after that whole sweat lodge thing broke. A few others have disappeared as well. The only “name” left is that convos-with-Gawd joker Neale-and-Prey Donald Walsch.

    In any case, it looks as if we have to wait nearly a whole year to find out how to end homelessness and foreclosures for good. Street people and those who are upside-down on your mortgages, you may be S.O.L. for now. Maybe a little Miracles Coaching on the side will help keep you afloat.

    1. @Cosmic Connie,

      homes·less [hohmz-lis]
      1. without a second home: a homesless child.
      2. the homesless, persons who lack permanent vacation housing.

      I’m sure Mr. Fire is hard at work solving the problem of homeslessness for himself.

      1. @Lanna, Ha, ha, you might be right. Then again, the newly refocused attention on Operation Maybe could be a result of the fact that he is facing “fire” on other fronts. Perhaps he is alarmed by the growing army of critics who see through his and his colleagues’ b.s. Maybe it is sinking in that the days of the boiler-room supported businesses such as Prosper are drawing to a close as more people become outraged by having been coerced into spending all of their money for empty promises. Or perhaps Mr. Fire is being proactive re potential tax issues. It could be any number of reasons, but I suspect that genuine altruism has very little to do with it.

  28. Evil. Just heartbreaking, disgusting, *insert personal threats of the vilest nature here* maggots.

    Thanks for exposing them, Salty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. I think ClickBank got mad at mr. Morrison, maybe:

    First post there:

    “Dear ClickBank Client,

    This message is being sent as a courtesy to inform you that the account “antsuccess” will no longer be selling products through ClickBank as of Thursday, May 17th, 2012 at 4:00pm MST. Please discontinue all advertising campaigns and promotions for this account effective immediately.

    We appreciate your cooperation and understanding.

    ClickBank Operations Team”

    Then later…

    “I think, even his first product, Fast Cash Commissions, is banned from ClickBank now. It is no where to be found. Probably his whole CB vendor acc is banned.

    Can someone confirm this?


    I wonder if CNN & Fox will do their report about it?

  30. Has anybody gotten any of their money back from the Meridian scam — and how did they do it?

  31. No kidding — does anyone know of anyone who has gotten any of their money back from the Meridian scam?

  32. Salesmen are salesman but I have a friend who actually learned a great deal from PMI and has started his own buisness and is supporting his family from it. He 100% backs PMI and he has actually received their education so take it for what it’s worth but it does work for some people. Sometimes people get so upset over perceived wrongs but it seems like a whole lot of people have gone off and gotten angry without knowing a whole lot about the situation you have one phone call here in which the salesman just sounds like a salesman to me

    1. @shouldn’t assume,

      “Salesmen are salesman…”

      — only three words in and you’re already in trouble. This comment smacks of the “boys will be boys” attitude some women (and men) get when they complain about sexual harassment. Are you arguing that salesman just do what they do and we should just let them be? Well, hey murders are murders, muggers are muggers, politicians are politicians, it’s just the way they are and we should all just learn to deal with it.

      “but I have a friend who actually learned a great deal from PMI and has started his own buisness and is supporting his family from it. He 100% backs PMI and he has actually received their education so take it for what it’s worth but it does work for some people.”

      — and here we have the ol’ ‘friend of a friend’ routine. If your friend 100% supports it and is supporting his family from it {which btw I don’t believe} then why are you here telling us about instead of doing it yourself so you can make all the moniez too?

      “Sometimes people get so upset over perceived wrongs but it seems like a whole lot of people have gone off and gotten angry without knowing a whole lot about the situation..”

      — here I think you are correct. I agree that you are getting upset over a perceived wrong (that being that we are making things up about programs like PMI. Although we aren’t). And I heartily agree that you and many of the people like you that come here have gotten angry without knowing a whole lot about the situation. Please feel free to read the other posts and familiarize yourself with the reality of this “industry”. (spoiler alert: it’s crime).

      “ have one phone call here in which the salesman just sounds like a salesman to me”

      — hmmm. This is a weird statement to have in your argument. And it’s a terrible statement to close with because you have two ideas that conflict which overall renders an already weak argument even weaker. First of all you have the “…you have one phone call here…” then you state “…the salesman just sounds like a salesman to me.” So, if he just sounds like a salesman then presumably there should be millions of calls just like this right? I mean, he just sounds like a salesman. So then is it also fair for me to assume that your friend you spoke of “sells” just like this all the time?

      But see you specifically state that we only “have one phone call here”. You are arguing that there is only one call, so this one call cannot be held as dispositive of what happens in ALL calls. So you are arguing that this particular call is some kind of anomaly. It gives the sense that something is happening here that shouldn’t be (spoiler alert: there is something happening that should be. Crime).

      So which is it? This guy sounds like a reasonable salesman who does what reasonable salesman do? Or this is just “one phone call” and not proof of anything?

      Why don’t you work on your approach and come back and try again.

      1. @What the what,

        whoops – should read: (there is something happening here that should NOT be. Crime)

  33. Pingback: » Swallow Hard
    1. @Jack,

      …and the amazing site that he talks about, made so much money it was time to sell it…

      …until it did not sell and was parked on godaddy for free:

      The most amazing thing about these convincing liars that sell the sell is that I have not come across one that has been able to point to even one, remotely credibible business website that they actually built themselves, and that has made them honest money.

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