Syndicate Scarcity

I’m sorry :: do to higher than expected demand :: this post has completely sold out.

Wait … no … that’s stupid.

Wanna hear something funny/scary about The Syndicate’s fake scarcity launches?

Sometimes they sell more units AFTER they fake “sell out” than before.

We’re just going to go through and look for duplicate orders and cancellations … and then we’re gonna sell as many units as we possibly can while we lie right to your face.

Good times …

At least they were nice enough to confess on tape!

>> bleep bloop

279 thoughts on “Syndicate Scarcity”

  1. Sounds like a bunch of whiny crybabies here. These guys offer great products where you can make millions, so what if they use some tricky sales tactics? Meanwhile the people who buy the WSO offers and REALLY IMPLEMENT THEM Make boatloads of money. Instead of wasting time here funnel your efforts into money making.

    I watched a video with Frank Kern and Tony Robbins and the reason people fail is they don’t take ACTION. Even if they do they fail once or twice they quit and then go on to create a site like this. That is what separates the men from the boys.

    1. @Bob Goatse,

      These guys offer great products where you can make millions, so what if they use some tricky sales tactics?</blockquote

      They are mailing Jenkins video bust to 1M people + and expect around 3-400 responses, that isn't making millions, unless you learned math on Acid.

      Meanwhile the people who buy the WSO offers and REALLY IMPLEMENT THEM Make boatloads of money.

      And the boat is a dingy.

      Instead of wasting time here funnel your efforts into money making.

      hmm….you’re here…nuff said…

    2. @Bob Goatse,

      “These guys offer great products where you can make millions”

      The sentence “where you can make millions” reveals something… hmm.. let me see…

      Oh yeah, they tell me that you haven’t yet made millions with these products, but you hope you can do it.

      Good luck, Though i have to warn you. The chances of you “making milllions” as Franks and Jeffs puppy dog is smaller than if you picked random stocks in the the stock market.

      But Why not Go for it Bob… I mean, You might(will) get screwed…
      But do it, be stupid…

      “Be stupid”, like in those DIESEL commercials. Stupid is cool. Screw up, get fucked. You can never get enough screwing.

      Politicians and the economy aren’t screwing you up enough already? Well then go to Mr Franky Hanky And Jeff Boy. They will get the job done.

      Take the Blue pill Bob…… Oink Oink, watch out for the white rabbit. It might show you the truth.

      1. @Mathias,

        “Oh yeah, they tell me that you haven’t yet made millions with these products, but you HOPE you can do it.”

        Thats it HOPE, HOPE, HOPEDY HOPE

        Best product of all time.

        1. @anonymous,

          Yep. Hope is slowly killing critical thinking.

          Hope in everything…

          hope in advertisements, hope in self-help, hope in governments, hope in schools, hope in institutions, hope in politics, hope in globalization. And even hope in taxes.

          Everyone has their own fucking religion these days.
          And most people are willing to waste their lives fighting and contributing to it

    3. @Bob Goatse, “These guys offer great products where you can make millions, so what if they use some tricky sales tactics?”


      How about “Those cops are killing the criminals, so what if they had to kill a few hostages to get to them?”

      Even if the products are “great” (which they’re not) and can help you “make millions” (which they might, if you take action and have enough brains/experience to take it and add your own spin to it) the end doesn’t justify the means.

      That’s a pretty unfortunate last name you’ve got there. You might want to put some of those millions you’ve made with this stuff to good use and have it legally changed.

    4. @Bob Goatse,

      I watched a video with Frank Kern and Tony Robbins and the reason people fail is they don’t take ACTION.

      Nah, it’s because they need to try harder. Or maybe ’cause they have a bad attitude. Or maybe they need to suck it up and realize that they’ve been had by a bunch of lying, conning scammers.

      1. @Duff,

        Tony Robbins and Frank Kern want to heal the earth…

        So They’ve gone together to create a product, thats right… these good-hearted people have actually created a product called The new Money Masters(don’t know what thats supposed to mean) so that everybody can become millionaires, yep… Shizzle dizzle millionaires with ferraris and all that shit… And private islands too.

        All people need to do is to “take action”. Imagine a world where everybody can ‘get rich’ just by buying a few info products online and listen to a few self proclaimed gurus. I mean wow… WOW!

        That’s Human Potential baby!

        Who would have thought that shopping for information on the internet was the secret to making money?

        ‘The new money masters’ 2.0 (Under production…)

        Andy Jenkins: “and(heavy breathing)… Action!”

        Frank: “Im the creator of money, I even shit it… eat it Jeff, eat it, because it’s cool, cool shit, core shit and lots of influence.

        Jeff: “Succesfully influenced by Frank…
        Now in ‘scarcity Launch-mode’, and getting ready to eat Franks shit in: 10-9-8…”

        Andy jenkins: “and(heavy breathing)… Cut!… Pizza!”

    5. @Bob Goatse, “so what if they use some tricky sales tactics?”

      One day once I heard that these “tricky sales tactics” were also many times called “fraud” –

      – as in, “Hey mr. Boss, i have found some supers ideas for us to make many and many more of the $sales with some new fantastic fraud ideas.”

  2. Fake scarcity? un-fucking-believable!

    How can they sleep at night knowing what they’re doing to people? I read in another post of someone who spent close to 100k on these crappy courses.

    Salty.. keep exposing these guys – RUN THEM TO THE GROUND!!

    1. @I Hate Gurus..,

      “How can they sleep at night knowing what they’re doing to people?”

      Well, just maybe they count all the sheeple jumping over the bank counter?

    2. @I Hate Gurus..,

      Gurus feel that the sheeple do it to themselves. That they’re no different from retailers selling things and people wanting those kinds of products.

      They sleep just fine at night. They make a justification for everything they do.

      1. @Can’t Say, No, the gurus don’t “feel” that… they actively CON people… they KNOW what they are doing is bollox…

        There is NO justification, whatsoever.

        1. @rob sellen,

          I know they actively con people. I’m not an idiot.
          What I’m saying is that they FEEL the sheeple do it to themselves and that’s how they JUSTIFY it to themselves.

          I know this because I know them.

          1. @Can’t Say, Didn’t say you was an idiot..

            BUT I will now… I think you ARE an idiot.

            You must be if you think they FEEL anything at all… they are scum, they do not nor ever DID feel that their customers “do it to themselves”.. they KNOW for a fact their crap is useless, before they even started to GET any customers – they don’t give a fuck about their customers, they don’t CARE so they don’t FEEL anything but pleasure in ripping them off.

            IF you know them so well, why are you still having anything to do with them?
            Why are you not warning people YOU know about them?

            Why are you hiding behind a no name?

            What are YOU doing about it, seeing as you said, you know them…?

            Me, I know of them, I know what kind of pond scum they are, I know they rip people off.

            Don’t mean I know what they feel, nor do you, so stop talking shit.

            Get it into your head, these bastards don’t FEEL anything… they KNOW before they even start newbies will fail because that’s WHY they target them.

            Failed to convince me you are not an idiot.

            1. @rob sellen,

              I think you need to check a dictionary for the definition of FEEL. It means more than one thing.

              feel – to have a general or thorough conviction of; think; believe: I feel he’s guilty.

              I do warn people about them, and I help as many as I can and I’m on the front lines. I talk to the people in it, not just write comments on a blog. Not that you’ve ever read any of my previous posts. You just naturally assume I’m on their side? Fuck you.

              “Me, I know of them, I know what kind of pond scum they are, I know they rip people off. ”

              Yea? I KNOW them. I know what they say to one another.

              You don’t have to tell me anything about them. I know their scum, so why are you even arguing with an ally? You have to prove yourself to Salty or something? Trying to push your own blog?

              I’m not going to respond to you anymore. You’re ridiculous.

            2. @can’t say.


              I didn’t assume anything, sides? You just put yourself on one side, nothing to do with me.
              What you mean “fuck you” … no thanks, not that way inclined.

              Comments on blogs, like you are doing here, with an anon name… lol.. hypocrite, show me YOUR post and I will read them, till then stfu because you are just leaving comments on a blog.

              Prove myself? What?

              I don’t have to prove anything to anyone dipshit.

              Ridiculous? kettle, pot, black.

              Please stfu and man up or fuck off.

            3. @rob sellen,

              Quote: “Why are you hiding behind a no name?”


              Rob Sellen isn’t even your real name. It’s obvious.


  3. Ahhh, Bob (aka Billy) Goat. Another troll comes out of the woodwork. Try reading a few more posts brilliant one. I love this gem “…so what if they use some tricky sales tactics?” In the real world, that’s called unethical. It’s right up there in my book with bullying. Oh, wait, they do that too. The ends do NOT justify the means when it comes to ripping off the gullible and the possibly desperate.

    Here’s another clue for the trolls. Many of the losers and haters (I am proud to be in this group) who comment here are in no way associated with internet marketing, marketing, or sales in any way. Most of us – and I know this may come as a shock – actually live productive lives doing real jobs and stuff. We just hate injustice and unethical behavior at any level, and like to see those guilty of unethical conduct called out for it and put out of business and maybe in jail where they belong.

    Like that time Salty took down Bernie Madoff, that was so cool – oh wait, maybe that wasn’t SD.

    Anyway, why don’t you trip on back to whatever party you were at and if you dislike the blog – don’t read it, but don’t try to burden the rest of us with your bullshit.

    1. @Dave, There are lots of people who are associated with internet marketing, marketing, or sales who also live productive lives doing real jobs and stuff. You’re not helping the “cause” by insulting everyone in those jobs.

      And if you’ve ever had to convince your boss that your idea was a good one, or had to go knocking on doors to find a job, I hate to tell you this but you’re in sales.

      1. @Anonymous Bastard ::

        Dave is a retired Marine officer living/working in mother fucking Afghanistan … so when he goes “knocking on doors” you don’t want to be on the other side of the door.

        And the point is … the d-bags and trolls constantly label me :: and everyone else here :: as “jealous haters”. But lots of us :: like Dave and I :: have never had anything to do with any of this cat crap until just nowish.

        Carry on.

      2. @Anonymous Bastard,

        And if you’ve ever had to convince your boss that your idea was a good one, or had to go knocking on doors to find a job, I hate to tell you this but you’re in sales.

        I’m cool with trying to convince the boss of your good idea. Lying to your boss in order to convince him of your good idea by convincing him that the rest of the team already agrees with you that it’s a great idea, now that’s Syndicate-style!

    2. “…so what if they use some tricky sales tactics?”

      That’s the whole product. Using tricky sales tactics to sell the same tricky sales tactics. It’s bad for the customers, and bad for the customers of the customers. It’s even bad for capitalism itself, if you like that sort of thing.

  4. Salty, your video editing is awesome. :-) I love the way you illustrate what’s being spoken about. Very, very comical and thought provoking, too!

    Please remember to eventually release the full unedited version of this conversation. If you have hosting/bandwidth concerns, just let us all know and we can help figure something out.

    1. @Alejandro ::

      I won’t forget to release them … something tells me you peeps wouldn’t let me forget anywayz … and I wouldn’t to deprive y’all of listening to Andy repeatedly mention how he “went to NYU”. Gag!

  5. You framed the video nicely with laughing – it underscores how much fun everyone is having with this. Ha ha ha – push some buttons – ha ha ha.
    I was worried the gnome would not be in there…glad he came in as the closer. BTW – he may need a halo added, now that he has found his lord.
    Your video chops are getting better with every clip, SD.

  6. I’m not a troll, I’m just trying to set the record straight. All businesses use games in their advertising. Your local car dealer does it, they put an ad in the paper about stock #235 and when you get there its sold. But of course they have another cream puff for you.

    Google is also full of shit when they say they don’t like MFA sites, they make billions from the people who implement the ideas in internet marketing and WSOs. They just choose to make an example out of some. Trust me, if they really cared they would approve every site. They can check youtube videos for copyright infringement with software(image processing/recognition is some of the most complex computing), they could easily validate sites for compliance(these patterns would be cake to spot). Yet many of these sites float around for years. And there is nothing unethical about those sites. They just redirect you somehwere else. The internet would be a boring place if Amazon, Web MD, ebay and best buy always popped up first.

    Every piece of information you get (free or paid) has value. If you chose to DO it, that is another story.

    @Dave, you just pwoned everyone here, admitting you are not real internet marketers. How would you know then what ideas work and what does not.

    There is a kid on WF making 90K a month popping out autoblogs. Tons of satisfied customers.

    How about guys like XFactor and Clickbump, making thousands a month online and helping others do the same.

    If they were frauds there would be plenty of backlash.

    I’m just using them as examples but there are thousands of similar moneymaking ideas around. Problem is people either ARENT MOTIVATED, don’t have the skills(they don’t understand the material in its entirety) and don’t execute them correctly. If the CEO of mcdonalds made a manual on how to open up a burger shop, 100 people will read it but only 2 will succeed. But that don’t mean the information is bad.

    I see videos here poking fun at Filsame and other guys calling them frauds. First of all, they offer iron clad money back guarantees. This is more than some colleges offer. UofP and ITT Tech(and any other college) cost 50K, and if you don’t get a job you are F#@#ed with tons of loans to pay back. I would say that is more of a scam.

    Second of all, why can’t you do the same as them? Or improve it so more people can benefit. Are you saying there is no money in IM? I know I’m playing devils advocate against the board, but if I’m that off track prove me wrong. Seriously, if I’m that off the wall I want to know.

    I’ll probably get censored, but whatever.

    1. @Bob Goatse,
      You still here? I read your earlier sentence:

      “Instead of wasting time here funnel your efforts into money making.”

      And then I read cartman’s answer:

      “hmm….you’re here…nuff said…”

      End of story for you I’m afraid. Better think up another nym and come back – I mean – better go off and earn that second million. No need to waste your time here.

    2. @Bob Goatse, How many of these IM frauducts have you purchased? Ever try and get that 100% ironclad refund? You’d have better luck opening that McDonalds you’re talking about..

      Difference is these IM’ers are telling you buy my manual and you’re guaranteed to make millions just like me. I make $10 million per year, see here’s a screen shot now of a check I got from the Kroc family for $243,000 and here’s another one for $85,000… haven’t cashed them yet, just have them sitting around.

      Big diff between real advertising and the train-vertising these dudes are doing. They abusing their perceived authority from the stage or webinar platform as the experts, misleading the newbies with outright lies and fraudulent advertising..

      Things are so bad, one friend was at a live pitchfest and was told by the wanna-be gangster Stephen Pierce that anyone who didn’t follow him to the back of the room was a coward. This dude is one of the worst, claiming to make over $10 million a year… please… I’m guessing he was thrown out of high school for failing math.

      FTC is cracking down and soon there will be more to come. Call Jeff Paul and Perry Belcher. Adam Ginsberg was banned from Ebay, the list goes on and on….

      Your comment…. “why can’t you do the same as them…” you still drinking the kool aid my friend. 90% of all these dudes LIE about the numbers they’re doing, sales volume, refunds, etc….

      Why don’t you buy AJ’s latest product and report back here how much you make. Fair enough?

      but don’t forget, move quick cuz it’s gonna be pulled off the market soon…

    3. @Bob Goatse,

      Actually, I am on the “inside” so to speak and I can tell you with confidence no kid on the WF is CLEARING 90K per month with auto-blogs. It would be very difficult to viably scale to those kind of numbers without a ton of outsourcing, which would at the best pie in the sky scenario be 90K GROSS per month. HUGE difference from net when all expenses are crunched.

      Same as when affiliates are told some “new system” made $15,478 in 5 days, etc.

      What’s not told is that the numbers were generated using JV promotions to existing lists that the gullible newbie affiliate does not have and typically exclude all product lead time and expenses. It’s a LIE BY OMISSION.

      As for XFactor helping people … ahhh … you need to remove your Pollyanna sunglasses and read the WF threads before they get scrubbed by Myers et al.

      I have PERSONALLY talked to more than one person that has never been refunded for his imaginary video course. Btw, if you really need to feel some pain go sign up for his high dollar coaching and report back.

      In the real world, the exact match, thin content domain model is a short term newbie idiot strategy that even John XFactor himself no longer uses.

      If you have any doubts I challenge you creating and maintaining Google rankings on 100+ thin content Adsense sites.

      Am I saying it’s not possible to make money on the net? Of course not, IF you build a REAL BUSINESS. But the industry is FULL of scammers and criminals and is in desperate need of a huge purging.

      It’s not a whole lot different than the used car business where there are some reputable dealers swimming in a big cesspool of fraud.

      Do you think government regulators should let car dealers (used or new) do whatever they want without consequences? If not, are you just whining?

      1. @Hal (the original Hal),

        You stated: “Am I saying it’s not possible to make money on the net? Of course not, IF you build a REAL BUSINESS.”.

        I have found a lot of helpful info on this blog to steer me away from the scammers but I haven’t found much info towards a SOLUTION of an ideal and ethical business model.

        If anyone could elaborate a bit more on this I’d appreciate it.



        1. @Josh,

          Nobody is perfect and everybody will let you down at some point. Just a fact a life.

          There are way too many people in the IM world who will bleed you for every cent you have and blame you for the scam because you were an idiot to believe them in the first place.

          That said, one person I have found that gives consistently good advise is Matt Cutts (an employee of Google). He has a blog and a YouTube channel. The Google Webmaster Central Channel is another must have.

          But if you’re in a hurry, I’ll let you in on THE big secret for making money online … for FREE … seriously.


          Wait for it …

          Wait for it …

          THERE IS NO SECRET !!!!

          It’s just simple economics (supply and demand) and sound business models.

          For example, the Adsense model is a viable business model (IF done correctly) that doesn’t require a huge up front investment. But it does require the dreaded four letter word … WORK.

          Also, look for a business model that suits your personality because Adsense is not for everyone. But whatever you finally decide, it will most likely fall into one of the following categories:

          1) Promoting your own product(s) online.
          2) Promoting product(s) made by others online.
          3) Promoting your own service(s) online.
          4) Promoting service(s) of others online.

          Just think of the internet as one big lead gen machine.

          That’s it.

          No hype. No Fluff. No Magic Bullet.

          But you WILL have to do REAL WORK to turn a PROFIT.

          1. @Hal (the original Hal),

            And to add to that.

            Your blog or site is JUST a platform, no-one makes a blog and just makes money…

            Josh, your business is what YOU make it, not what some fucking guru tells you it is… ;o)

            Your line…

            “I haven’t found much info towards a SOLUTION of an ideal and ethical business model”

            It’s YOU that decides what ethics you stand by, why are you looking for validation elsewhere, or expecting the answers to be somewhere you can’t find them?

            You got ears, that space between em is where you should be looking! ;)

            Go make yourself rich lol.. :o)

          2. @Hal (the original Hal),

            If he’s going to promote his own products and services, they better both be something he knows something about.

            Selling your own “make-money-on-the-Internet” product or service if you’ve never done is more than “fake-it-until-you-make-it.” It’s fraud. I suspect at some point the same standard will be applied to selling the same products and services as an affiliate for a fake guru.

            Why people don’t focus on niches they know something about is beyond me. Your bread-and-butter online business will be built on your expertise. And for long-term success, evergreen products and services based on human wants are better than trying to sell some new tactic that will be obsolete in six months.

            It does take WORK and TIME. Hmmm. Just like an offline business but with less start-up capital in most cases.

            Best wishes,


            P.S. This isn’t theoretical. I’ve done it.

            1. @Mike Young, Esq., you wrote: “Why people don’t focus on niches they know something about is beyond me.”

              It’s quite simple.

              Most people interested in IM hate their jobs and want to escape to pursue a long-deferred dream. Those dreams usually aren’t “start a business:” mine was “go back to school without taking out huge loans.” So Tim Ferris and his shitstained ilk sell the dream of the “Muse,” a side-biz that lets you go after the dream.

              And, of course, the cliched “market research” advice that started with Ken McCarthy and filtered down to some WSO says good niche markets are golf… martial arts… dating… weight loss… all pretty scammy, all things that make your eyes glaze over while you’re trying to take “massive action” like a good sheep.

              Finally, unlike you, the IM newbie lacks a real-world credential like “lawyer” that could become a successful business. Hence niche markets, which are a little like looking for a golden needle in a haystack.

            2. @Mike Young, Esq.,

              Most newbies will fail trying to sell their own products or services online because most people can’t “sell” anything online or offline.

              That’s why so many people end up getting sucked into these asinine $1,997 pipe dreams that promise the moon but are in reality thinly veiled churn and burn scams that prey on the financially desperate without mercy or conscience.

              Noobs would have far greater success if they just learned how to write quality, truthful content on topics with useful tangible items or services for sale.

              They could then learn how to publish their work on their own SEOed website(s) monetized with something reputable like Adsense, Amazon, etc. That way there’s no selling, no pressure and *gasp* no lies.

              Once they see for themselves that it is possible to “make money” (albeit not an instant fortune) online they’ll at least have a grounding in reality for the amount of work required.

              Then they would be forever inoculated against the plague of “The Syndicate” and their ilk.

            3. @Mike Young, Esq.,

              “Selling your own “make-money-on-the-Internet” product or service if you’ve never done is more than “fake-it-until-you-make-it.” It’s fraud.”

              you mean like how mike filsaime does business? do you even know how he got started? selling a package of like 100 -make-money-on-the-internet- products with resale rights before he was making any money online and calling it the greatest deal ever. or maybe building a list promising to tell people how to build a list, remember that? i sure do.

              you might want to think about opening your mouth before you stuff your foot into it.


        2. @Josh, One word Josh – Brand. Build a single site around something you enjoy or are good at, focus heavily on brand building and remember the best way to build a giant brand is to be the first at something – it doesn’t have to be ultra revolutionary, but it has to be different, fresh and newsworthy.

          Google and all the other search engines have been making brands the biggest factor in ranking alongside exact match. Exact match is going away steadily though. Big branded site with lots of content and lots of natural links (people link to it because the site is something new on the scene, something different, something extremely valuable or cool.

          That’s it, now get to it!

          1. @Bo,

            I agree with one caveat. Many people need to spend 5-15 years becoming good at something before they have a business idea worth pursuing. Working for “the man” is a good way to develop such skills, or pursuing a hobby or passion with gusto and discipline for at least 10 years first.

            A classic way to become a successful entrepreneur is to keep your entrepreneurial eye out for unmet needs in the marketplace you already work within, then discuss these unmet needs with colleagues, and make your move when the time is right.

            1. @Duff, I think you are dead-on, Duff, based on my own experiences, and those I see around me. I know some really successful online marketers, and very few are flukes. Most are older, and have robust professional or personal backgrounds.
              I also think your sense of the timing it takes is really accurate – and only something you can recognize in hindsight.

            2. @Duff, Yes, very well put Duff. If you can meet needs no one else is meeting that constitutes something new and it would serve you well to also think if what you will do is newsworthy – this helps build your presence a lot quicker and build a bigger barrier to entry to inevitable competitors (as you are already well known).

              I speak from personal experience launching a specialised search engine back in 2006 ;) Anyway, carry on…

      2. @Hal (the original Hal), inside my ass. There’s a lot of people making a lot more than those gurus by doing simple stuff and a lot of that stuff is available on the Warrior Forum but it takes action and that is what most people won’t do.

        1. @Hal ::

          Keep telling yourself that sheeple … maybe it will magically come true just by the power of your intentional ignorance.

          1. @SD,

            Why are you using sheeple in a negative way? Isn’t your stance to help the sheeple and enlighten them?

            1. @Baribou,

              Nobody can help an alcoholic that refuses to admit a problem exists.

              Think of SD’s blog as a cross between Sheeple Anonymous and Syndicate Crime Stoppers.

          1. @rob sellen,

            Completely agree.

            To be fair there are some “good” people hanging around there that try to help and warn newbs, but they usually get censored, mocked and/or labeled haters.

            Even the infamous Ed Dale referred to the WF as “that bastion of bullshit”.

            1. @Hal (the original Hal), Yeah, I was one of them… got banned for it, couldn’t give a shit either.

              The “good” ones I think have left really, they are PUTTING to use what they learned over the years, instead of backslapping them assholes in that place. ;)

              The good ones NEVER sold anything there…

    4. @Bob Goatse:

      “If they were frauds there would be plenty of backlash.”


      You’re on THIS site saying that with a straight face? You’ve GOT to be a troll.

      No, WAY too many people and other blogs have been all over this stuff lately, and word is quickly getting around. You’ve either been asleep for months or have a one track mind that has gone off the tracks.

    5. @Bob Goatse, yawns. Yawnie yawn!

      We need an FAQ / “Frequently Objected Objections” here. Because you just belched the WF/IM party line:

      1) “A kid offering neither proof nor substantiation makes a bazillion dollars a day! Also, he has no track record of teaching others to implement these ideas successfully.”

      2) “Take MASSIVE ATTACKSHUN! People who don’t are lazy.”

      3) “An accredited college with career counseling, qualified teachers, an alumni network, and a fast-track to internship opportunities in real-world businesses is more of a scam than some fake surfer selling PDFs online. Notice how I only mentioned Phoenix U. and ITT Tech in my post, both of which are taking heat from Congress for using the same pressure-sales as the IM scammers.”

      4) “Trust me, someone who has never worked for Google, owned Google stock, watched video of Marissa Mayer laughing, or read the Adsense TOS, Google loves spammy MFA sites, which is why Jason XFactor’s ‘students’ don’t get human-reviewed and have your account yanked when you start making more than $5 a day.”

      5) “Businesses use advertising! Therefore fraud, deception, and douchebaggery are all A-OK.”

      “Therefore, Mike Filsaime and Andy Jenkies are not scammers.”

      Summary mine. Dozens of other people have said the EXACT SAME THINGS here. They’re the dogma that entrepreneurs & wannabes eagerly adopt with no thought, reflection, or criticism, they have only the most tenuous connection to the real world, and they EPIC FAIL to address what’s really going on in the IM marketplace.

      SO plz FAQ off.

    6. @Bob Goatse, Sounds like you’ve read every self-help book and been through the typical MLM “it’s all in your head” course before you got here.

      You don’t seem to get the fact that just because you CAN sell a piece of shit product, a crappy autoblog or some other thing that has little or no value to anyone except the guy selling it doesn’t mean you SHOULD.

      Why don’t you ask the guy that wound up on the autoblog looking for an answer to some question, or the ones who end up on Xfactor/Clickbump sites how much “value” they got?

      If you’re going to sell something, don’t use tricks to do it. And provide something that is of value to the target customer, even if they’re just a free visitor from Google.

  7. Don’t forget…

    This is a product that just moments ago Andy was going to price at $497. Jeff suggested 5K and they settled on $2500.

    There’s gotta be a special place in hell for people like this.

    1. @Disgusted:

      “There’s gotta be a special place in hell for people like this.”

      There are special places on earth for people like this. Some of those places provide 3 square meals and a cot.

    2. @Disgusted,

      Andy Jenkins started at $497 showing what he really thought it was worth or what he might get. Likely, he felt $497 was pushing it and wanted to bounce it off Jeff Walker.

      He knows you couple save a LOT of money from a couple good video editing books. Or go to places like and and look at their free stuff.

      And if you want more sites like that, simply visit Google and type related: [website domain]. Example: and Google will show you sites similar to it.

      Noooo… instead, let’s charge $2,500 and reel ’em all in!

  8. Whatever, maybe they exaggerate about their product but so does every company. I’m not saying they are 100% right, but smart people will make money from their info. Their ideas can be spun into something legitimate.

    Every company practices shady advertising, whether you like it or not. Advertising burgers will make some people end up in a coronary ICU down the road. But yet they do it. Let the buyer beware. Why is scarcity different from a going out of business sale, where prices are sometimes HIGHER!

    Like Microsoft REALLY needs office 2010, when office 95 or 97 or 2000(you get the idea) is probably more than enough for 95% of users. Then they make a product that cost $1000 obsolete in two-three years, telling you that you need a new version when the old version more than meets your needs. Otherwise they threaten you that the product is less secure or whatever.

    Ok, lets say the internet didn’t exist. Millions of profitable businesses existed before. You either have business acumen or you don’t. The sad part is the people can REALLY succeed probably don’t need kern or robbins or can get their shit free. They have the same mindset as colleges with no admission standards, telling everyone they can get a degree or job. The truth is that not everyone is college material, and not everyone is business material. One of these sites had the fine print practically blended into the background, but it ultimately lies in the hands of the purchaser to get what is right for them.

    1. @Bob Goatse, Dude, you need to go back to not making your millions with all the not great products these guys are selling.

    2. @Bob Goatse, actually, keep posting here. Readers on the fence can decide for themselves whether or not the Guru/IM party line makes any sense:

      Lesson #1: If “smart people make money from their info,” yet “not everyone is business material,” and “the people [who] can REALLY succeed probably don’t need kern or robbins,” then why does ANYONE need Kern or Robbins?

      Lesson #2: If “the fine print [is] practically blended into the background, but it ultimately lies in the hands of the purchaser to get what is right for them,” do you think that is unfair– immoral– and even illegal? Especially when the fine print WITHHOLDS information, like the total number of people who have succeeded with the product and their earnings?

      Lesson #3: If “maybe they exaggerate about their product but so does every company,” do we know what kind of exaggeration is OK and what is fraud? For instance, consider CASE A: I am fat and balding but use “Axe” hair gel because a TV commercial showed an Axe user get ravished by gorgeous babes. Can I sue if I walk into a sorority house and rather than getting laid, I get laughed at and arrested? Or CASE B: If a guru who says he’s “just like me” makes ten YouTube videos about his techniques netting him $324242 in 23 minutes, using these very secrets he’s about to show me, and then he charges me $2500 and I can’t even make $150 in nine months using those very techniques, should he go to jail and get laid by gorgeous Crips? Which is false advertising?

      Bonus Question: Is a college with no admissions standards better than an Andy Jenkins with no admission standards? Which looks better on a resume?

      As always,

      1. Hey, ya know what – why don’t the guys here publish a free internet moneymaking plan that will work with hard work, expose all the lies and put all those guys out of business.

        Is there money to be made on the net?

        1. @Bob Goatse, Seriously?

          The fact you ASK that shows how little you know.

          There is NO internet money making plan. If it was really all that simple, EVERYONE would be doing the same shit…

          What these assholes are doing is SCAMMING… not “making money”. That’s the AIM of the scam.

          Is there money to made to be on the net?

          WTF, are you seriously stupid?

          WOW… just, wow.

        2. @Bob Goatse, You seem to think “the guys” here are somehow trying to shut the Syndicate down for their own benefit.

          They can know jack shit about how to make money on the internet, and still recognize and expose lies and scams for what they are.

          Knowing how to make money and run a business isn’t a prerequisite for not liking scammers and those “tricky sales tactics” that you seem to think are so acceptable.

        3. @Bob Goatse, I’ll bite. Here’s just one proven model:

          1. Make a web site.
          2. Get hundreds of thousands of people reading it.
          3. Sell ad space.

          That’ll be $2500. Pony up!

          Oh, wait, I’m not in the Syndicate. Take it gratis!

        4. @Bob Goatse,

          You are confused Bob…

          Business is not like bodybuilding

          For example: Most people can get buff and develop a lean raw muscular body and supercharge their energy if they follow a sound body-building plan.

          Business is different Bob.

          Here you deal with partners, competitors, technology, customers…

          In other words… you deal with the world and the people in it.

          in the business-jungle there’s no easy just do this and then you will succed kinda plan.

          Don’t you get it, the world is a cool, but really messy place…

          There’s no plan or formula that will just naturally plug into the world of business. You need an open mind, sharp senses, feedback from the marketplace and the skills to turn your ideas into objects, the ability to seek the right help at the right time,etc.

          Business is going on all the time, and we all want to get better at spotting opportunities and see business-ideas that are currently not materialistically present.

          There are billions of business opportunities(hidden)… it’s about tuning in and learning how to see… and act on what you see in a succesful manner aka.(making money)

    3. @Bob Goatse,

      The gist of your argument appears to be this:

      1. All businesses use persuasion tactics to some extent.
      2. Therefore there is no such thing as unethical persuasion.

      If this is the case, then…

      3. There is nothing wrong with using a gun to persuade someone to give me their wallet.

      Sorry, but it doesn’t follow. Yes, all businesses use persuasive advertising, and persuasion is on a spectrum from education to advertising to cult indoctrination. But no, that doesn’t mean there is nothing wrong with outright lying to customers, nor with misleading and false advertising.

  9. Geez, these guys really are a bunch of cynical d-bags. the case against them just gets worse with every new video published.
    well done SD, cant’ wait to see how they market their next 2K course launch… cause people will be much more skeptical now.

    talk about having an impact on the world, u’re actually singl-handedly breaking their scammy operation into crumbs !

  10. Wish I could hear this shit, could do with a laugh… :)
    PDF would be nice lol!!

    These people make me puke, about time that karma caught up with them, what we can all do is start linking back more, I have done so, I ain’t so worried to hide behind an anon crap either.

    The one thing salty keeps saying and people should bear in mind is, how many people ARE connected to these idiots, no matter how small it was, no-one is totally clean of their crap…

    Yeah, people make mistakes, that’s different, these scammers do this shit over and over again…

    Karma is a bitch with a memory of an elephant… as they are now finding out. ;)

    Glad I have never had dealings with these people… not that daft. ;)

    keep it up…

    there are plenty of decent people in this niche they just need to stop worrying about these assholes and their perceived influence… It’s gone…
    If it ever was there… ;)

    keep it up R2D2 looklike…

    1. @rob sellen ::

      Thanks for writing those articles Rob :: you almost made it into the Speaking of the Syndicate post … but you got cut but by the editor for sake of brevity. Internet pee brains have short attention spans you know …

    2. @rob sellen,

      The one thing salty keeps saying and people should bear in mind is, how many people ARE connected to these idiots, no matter how small it was, no-one is totally clean of their crap…

      This is a very important point, IMHO. Even online marketers who haven’t heard of the Syndicate are connected to it by 2 or 3 degrees of separation and use the same tactics Syndicate members invented. Some internet marketers in the problogging/copyblogging group are attempting to clean their names of their promotion of the Syndicate by deleting their B-team affiliate blog posts when they are outed. The supposed “Third Tribe” for instance uses many of the same tactics, and many of those third tribe gurus admit to purchasing 10’s of 1000’s of dollars worth of Syndicate products.

      The worst part to me is that mom and pop catalog businesses getting online sometimes get swept into using these tactics from someone they know who claims to “know internet marketing.”

      1. @Duff, I agree, I know for a fact a few people who had promoted things on good faith are great people, had they known they wouldn’t have touched it with a barge pole, some of these are victims too in some way.

        Third tribe… oh yeah, more bloody useless crap…

        run by an idiot of a bully…

        While the suckers kiss their ass…

        Pathetic… sadly.

  11. It’s funny to me that people can justify that using sales tricks is okay because “everybody” does it. If somebody’s product is really that great, why would you have to trick anybody into buying? Selling is something you do FOR people not TO them. When you realize that sincerely solving your customer’s problems should be your number ONE goal instead of how much money can you suck from them. That’s when the money actually will flow. It’s a paradox.

    1. @Davy,

      This is a very important change of frame in selling that makes all the difference. I would add though that sometimes the money doesn’t flow right away when you put solving the customer’s need as #1 priority, but it is the only long-term business strategy that will work. There are also times when the money doesn’t flow at all due to other factors (like global economic recession), but still, solving customer needs will always be an economically valuable approach. Anything else is a short-term tactic that will backfire in the end.

      1. @Duff, you wrote: “Anything else is a short-term tactic that will backfire in the end.”

        Especially when it’s based on some “google loophole” or “sneaky tactic THEY don’t want you to know!”

        No shortcuts, people.

        1. @Slowly Waking,

          I agree. Sometimes there are legit new markets that open up, but few are based on “Google loopholes” or “sneaky tactics”–and those who are tapping these new markets usually are busy making money, not selling their secrets.

      2. @Duff,

        Thanks for your input. I’m definitely aware that money won’t always flow that easily regardless, however, I just felt like simplifying my statement. Good addition from you, though.

    1. @Renaldo, I found it ultra appealing as well, kinda freakishly so, but appealing. Can Salty point us to the wav or mp3 where he found it? Much obliged – it’s good to have every time someone calls you – re-reminds you you to stay away from buying crap on the net :)

        1. @Random Reader, Thank you, very, very much. And sheeple say that only “haters” write in these pages. I’ve only ever found nice, helpful people here. Cheers.

  12. Mad editing skills, Salty. Very polished (and funny!) work. I bet the Gnome is ruing having run with the idea of wearing that ridiculous fake beard and glasses with his fellow gnome Anik.

  13. Salty, please send me your affiliate link so I can buy kajabi from you. I know you offer the most amazing bonus….

  14. So you engage in deceptive behavior that’s not going to impress your customers and prospects should they ever find out about it.

    That’s bad enough.

    But, on top of that, you decide to record a discussion about this deceptive behavior, so making it a possibility that your dishonesty could become widely known.

    And, even worse, you’re so cavalier about the security of that recording that it manages to fall into the hands of one of your most resolute enemies.

    C’mon guys, you have to admit that you’re not really the sharpest knives in the drawer.

  15. Hey scumbag lawyer Mike Young ESQ… get lost you piece of filth, holier-than-thou comments.

    You come here and post as if nothing has happened since your last appearance… you know, “just picked up the phone to get the facts” yet Mike Filsaime is your FUCKING client.

    You are piss to me you wolf in sheep’s jacket.

    We’re not dumb.

    You are.

    Stop posting here you slime.

    1. @Mike Young ESQ FRAUD ::

      Listen :: DON’T tell people to stop posting here. It pisses me off. This is an open forum … and Mike is welcome here no matter the circumstance or his posture toward me. That’s what “open” fucking means.

      Having an embarrassing association with dirt balls doesn’t make Mike unique around here.

      1. @SD,

        Thanks for weighing in on this.

        You and I disagree about Mike Filsaime. So what?

        Those issuing fatwas here are the same clowns who have been caught repeatedly posting lies about gurus using multiple fake names.

        One can point out deceptive practices without having to then jump the shark by accusing the same guru of killing puppies and pope abuse.



        1. @Mike Young, Esq. ::

          I’d say calling it a “disagreement” flatters your position.

          I’ve presented massive amounts of evidence to show that the The Gnome is part of horrible conspiracy to ruin vulnerable lives. Your “interview” countered none of my accusations :: but it attacked me personally :: echoed The Syndicate’s behind closed door “defenses” :: and wrongfully accused me of crimes.

          The trolls and clowns are calling for fatwas :: because that is what they do. But in this particular case … fatwas have also been called for by all my favoritest citizens … to include 100% of my meatspace friends and family who are fully aghast … and whom I do not consider trolls.

          1. @SD,

            Not to split hairs but there were two separate and distinct parts of that blog post.

            The first part contained the answers to the questions by Mike Filsaime. I wrote down his answers to the questions asked. You will find nothing in that content that attacks you personally in any way, shape, or form. In fact you are not mentioned by name or pseudonym.

            The second part of the post contained in the P.S. is a note written verbatim by Mike Filsaime. Those are his words. As stated just prior to his note, “Here is a note written by Mike Filsaime posted here without editing or comment.”

            Had he posted his note directly as a comment like your first comment on that thread, would it have made a difference to you? The point would have been the same. His words. His views. His response to you.

            If you choose to interpret what Filsaime wrote as a personal attack by me on you, that’s your choice. But there is a clear distinction between his words and mine.



            1. @Mike Young, Esq. ::

              I’m not interpreting anything as a personal attack :: plus I don’t much care :: I’m used to it. I’m just pointing out that you have given reasonable people reasonable reasons to doubt.

              Making him post the PS as a comment would have made a big difference in the framing … not to me … but to the people who matter.

        2. @Mike Young, Esq.,

          Mike, are you saying that you don’t think that Mike Filsaime is involved in the Syndicate, price fixing, and deceptive advertising practices?

        3. @Mike Young, Esq.,

          I don’t recall anyone posting lies and any false statement made by anyone was likely out of ignorance. Trolls and irrational critics are problems to almost every business, to say your client is indifferent is not very plausible.

          Hardly anyone concerns themselves about defaming a business or a company. Majority of people would not post lies unless they are a ruthless competitor and/or have some type of deep-seated rivalry.

          You are clearly practicing politics and publicity on behalf of your client in my nonpartisan judgement. Your side of agreement/disagreement on Mike Filsaime is likely biased and strictly business. I do applaud you for being clear about your stance however I do not applaud your way of presenting your stance as a unbiased & as a neutral third party. Even though you have disclosed your relationship between Mike Filsaime, you tend to plea that fact is irrelevant behind your stance.

          SD has also clearly stated your tendency to personally attack & I’ve witnessed you personally attack several rational critics. Stick on debating they statements of critics behind they issue, not on the critics behind they issue.

          These details make you suspect on your inner motivations behind they issue. Just my own observation…

        4. @Mike Young, Esq.

          I don’t recall ever issuing a fatwa. If you ignore some of the obviously silly comments – mostly written by trolls, and mostly voted down by readers here – you’ve been asked some perfectly reasonable questions, and you’ve either declined to answer or done so with a patronising brush-off.

          Far from wanting to ‘ban’ you from, I’d rather you just gave an honest explanation for what I still maintain was a shameful PR effort. But on past form, you’re more likely to label me a coward, ‘disgruntled’, or a troll. So I shan’t hold my breath.

        1. @Mike Young, Esq.,

          filsaime and the scum he’s associated are bad enough but you’ve jumped into an even lower pool of life, trying to -stand up- for a proven, flat out scumbag. especially when you’re offering up your person blog as the losers personal pr center.

          to think you have any ground to stand on is just foolish and you aren’t fooling anyone here. the more you try to defend your position through your snide, condescending tone only furthers your position as an -ass- for the world to see. especially considering the fact that you’re making statements about -faking it until you make it- and how it’s wrong while that’s exactly how your client got started. you’re sinking him and yourself more than your helping him.


          1. @brad, I think what you say in your post here is why I was starting to get confused about which one posting here was the real Mike Young ESQ FRAUD.

  16. I’m all for the exposure of unethical and illegal marketing tricks, and you’re high-larious at it, but… Salty, you lose me with the rants about you apparently believe that charging high prices of ANY sort is essentially dishonest or a scam. (What’s up with that?)

    You’re an attorney… You’re not charging clients $15 an hour, are you? I hope not, or you’d have to work too hard to make a living to have the time and energy to run this blog.

    As long as it’s done honestly, ethically, and legally, people can charge whatever exorbitant (or dirt-cheap) price they want for their services and their products. I’m a ‘merican damn it, that’s how it works here, it’s called supply and demand, and what the market will bear. (Again, as long as it’s done ethically and legally.)

    Ignoring your high-price rants, I’d think of you as a consumer advocate, but if you think ridiculing someone is appropriate SOLELY because they charge a lot, well… let the lawyer jokes begin. “Physician, heal thyself.” If that’s the case, you’re not a consumer advocate, you simply hate marketers and salesmen. (Which is fine, that just needs to be understood if that’s the case.)

    It’s a good thing there aren’t any dishonest or unethical people in your own industry for you to have expose, eh?

    1. @Billy Pilgrim ::

      Please point to the place where I rant about something based on price alone. Everything here is in the context of everything here.

    2. @Billy Pilgrim, What a stupid comment…

      Listen I am a stonemason, so, I could charge a good high price for a very ornately carved fireplace… But if I did that and then delivered basic square slabs of stone, pretty much what ANYONE could give you… am I in the wrong?

      Well, I am allowed to charge more, I am a professional.

      ONLY when I actually deliver what the customer wants and asked for though.

      Not a great example, but it is similar.

      Your bash is pathetic, nothing to do with BIG prices, only that it is a SCAM, ripping people off.

  17. Schools out…

    Hasn’t it reached a point by now that it’s impossible to deny the evidence (anecdotal or otherwise), presented here by SD. While many of us might enjoy a laugh at the expense of these gurus (AJ), they are clearly treating their customers with complete contempt. And getting away with it.

    Whether Salty can lay claim to ending their fraudulent claims is hardly the point. He’s already succeeded in exposing just how systematic these individuals are at marketing hot air. Maybe there are loads of other people doing the same or worse – but on this blog SD is talking about these guys. His blog. His choice.

    Wanna talk bigger picture. Start your own blog.

    Personally, I think they are starting to feel the heat. And to show any sympathy for these guys after spending even a small amount of time reading the posts here is seriously naive. SD has shown quite a bit of courage by exposing himself to personal threats and the like – I for one would not be so generous with my time.

    Thanks again Salty for schooling the sheeple.

    Frank Irwin Kern (not my real name.)

    1. @Irwin,

      Maybe I’m not wrong about this, but, if you really believe what you actually wrote you may not have written it in the manner which you’re well accustomed. At the very least, as you carefully read each word of this sentence you find that you undeniably agree positively with me on this point – now you can – can’t you?

      (Just kiddin’. Tryin’ to keep my mad NLP skillz sharp.)

      Contempt for customers and selling hot air is the norm for a lot of biz. (What the hell is the plural of biz? Carlton? Bueller? Carlton?)

      Behind closed doors you’ll hear it quite a bit. Enterprise software companies pitch/sell concepts or products (vaporware) that haven’t fully rolled out of R&D much less into production. But, depending on the pitchman, Joe Blow customer will walk out of a meeting or hang up after a conference call believing the product exists and can do everything he needs.

      The Syndicate does the same thing, right? Yep. So what’s the diff? Seriously?

      I started this comment with a different direction in mind, but now I’m honestly wondering why the Syndicate is different from any other biz.

      -> Can’t be telling lies. A lot of biz tell lies.
      -> Can’t be collusion. A lot of biz colludes.
      -> Can’t be high prices. A lot of biz charge high prices.
      -> Can’t be questionable marketing tactics.
      -> Can’t be re-packaging products and selling them.

      The only thing I can come up with, the thing that I really hate about what these guys do, is they don’t really believe that the products they sell will do what they say they will.

      Does Ryan Diess really believe in the products he promotes. Doubt it. Will he stake his reputation on it? Probably not.

      But, then again, does the gal selling you a $200 pair of jeans at the mall really believe in the jeans? Or, does anyone selling basketball shoes or home gyms or whatever really believe in what they’re selling?

      Of course they believe in them in a physical, “Do they exist?” sense. The question is, will a pair of jeans or basketball shoes or a home gym make you a cooler person, a better ball player or more attractive to the opposite sex?

      I guess the answer is maybe. Sometimes $200 jeans make you cool. Sometimes good ball shoes improve your performance. Sometimes a home gym helps you become more physically attractive.

      You can always go down to the Salvation Army and buy jeans, shoes and a home gym for a tenth of what new stuff will cost. But the Salvation Army doesn’t sell you “the dream”.

      I’m leaning more and more towards placing the onus on the consumer. You want the easy money? Think you can buy easy street for a few grand? Then go for it you dolt! Don’t let the facts block your way.

      I’m all for knocking the “gurus” down. They deserve it. I love that the Droid calls them on their bullshit.

      But these days, if you’re the guy who spends his family’s last dime on some get rich quick scheme – when all you have to do is open a new tabe, type a few key stokes and confirm that nagging inner voice telling you not to press that stupid fuckin’ Buy Now belcher button – I say go fuck yourself.

      Your kids may eat Rammen and .25 cent macaroni, dress in ragged clothes and get teased at school for the rest of the time they live in your house, but, those hard lessons learned early in life can forge some amazing, hard-working adults who will do their goddamb best to make sure their kids never have to eat Ramen noodles.

      Call them on their bull crap. Destroy their guru status. Expose their manipulation in all its forms. But let’s not pretend that lazy fucks with stars in their eyes aren’t part of the equation.

      My heart and sympathies go out to legitimate small business owners who get suckered into a scam. But in the same way that I don’t feel sorry for the relatively small number of speculators who tried to gouge the real estate market at everyone else’s expense, I don’t feel sorry for the folks who have a closet full of Amway soap or a hard drive full of shitty information products.

      (Bad mood anyone? I’ve got an extra.)

      1. @spoonfaceboy,

        LOL. I was tired when I wrote that comment. Sounds like junk now you mention it. Or it could be a mad NLP mind-trick.

        Or not.

      2. @spoonfaceboy,

        I’ve been reading this blog for quite some time and haven’t gotten involved until I read your post and decided enough is enough. I have two comments to make, as I find it amazing how quickly you forgive these guys, yet how quickly you condemn those who lose money to them.

        You say:

        “But these days, if you’re the guy who spends his family’s last dime on some get rich quick scheme – when all you have to do is open a new tabe, type a few key stokes and confirm that nagging inner voice telling you not to press that stupid fuckin’ Buy Now belcher button – I say go fuck yourself.”

        Blame the victim, huh? While I think it is foolhardy for people to spend money (they usually don’t have) over and over again, how do you know how many of these people are repeat offenders and how many just purchased their first product from these guys?

        I work at a non-profit helping people develop small businesses (from painting houses to online businesses). These are not people who have been in the welfare system their whole lives. Many could have been your neighbor until the economy caught up with them and they lost their jobs, etc.

        Do you know that many of our clients pay their electric bills by selling plasma twice a week for a total of $250 a month? Have you ever done that? Do you know how many people have replaced the tv (because the cable has long been canceled) with a family night of collecting glass bottles to take to the recycling center? Do you know there are people in your city who have become heroes to others because they know the best places to dumpster dive for food and clothing?

        Do you know how many young mothers I know who have turned down the “easy money” from strip clubs, phone sex, and prostitution because, while desperate, their moral character would not allow it?

        For you to sit there in your nice, cozy home, clicking on your keyboard and telling these people “go fuck yourself” makes me want to vomit.

        Have you ever been desperate? Have you ever been drowning in the ocean and someone throws you a life preserver?

        Do you think most people in that situation will grab it or spend a couple of hours doing a background check on the asshole who threw it?

        You think that making kids eat Ramen and dressing in rags “can forge some amazing, hard-working adults”. Yea, your theory works so well in the ghetto, doesn’t it? Cause a lot of those kids see that the ones who escape and make the pimp money are sports stars and drug dealers. Using your logic, the majority will simply learn that the way to improve your lot in life is to scam others.

        You say:

        ” I’m honestly wondering why the Syndicate is different from any other biz.

        -> Can’t be telling lies. A lot of biz tell lies.
        -> Can’t be collusion. A lot of biz colludes.
        -> Can’t be high prices. A lot of biz charge high prices.
        -> Can’t be questionable marketing tactics.
        -> Can’t be re-packaging products and selling them.

        The only thing I can come up with, the thing that I really hate about what these guys do, is they don’t really believe that the products they sell will do what they say they will.”

        My mom always taught me that two wrongs don’t make a right. I guess your mom taught you that if people do stupid things in desperate situations they should “go fuck themselves”.

        SD, sorry for this long-winded off-topic post. While I agree that there are too many people who keep making the same mistake, I’m sort of a “First time: Shame on you. Second time: Shame on me” person.

        The problem is that these guys go after newbies. The audios prove it. That’s where the money is. Too many of these people don’t know enough to know what they don’t know. They are fodder for rip-off artists. And for someone, who I’d guess has never walked five minutes in their shoes, to say they should “go fuck themselves”, well…I’d just had enough.

        1. @Sickened, bless you for that comment. Spoonfaceboy’s rambling & nonsensical rant above was too tangled for me to invest in making sense of it, but you cut through the crap.

          I hate it when people here blame the victim– even “sheeple” gets close to that. Your clarity and fire are MUCH appreciated.

          Bless you more for your work!

          1. @Slowly Waking ::

            I don’t consider “sheeple” victim bashing because there is nothing wrong with sheep … they are great. And the term applies across the population … not just to this particular victim pool.

            People ARE sheeple … that is a FACT. Group us up … and we can be shepherded for good or ill. It’s a good idea not to forget that.

        2. @Sickened ::

          That’s definitely not off-topic. I thought it was great!

          “First time: Shame on you. Second time: Shame on me”

          Maybe. Depends on the how and the when of the second time. Making people “chase” is built into the system … and plays with the same emotions as gambling addictions. If you are going to buy leads … the most valuable leads are people who have already been scammed in the past. Because if you’re vulnerable … you’re vulnerable.

          Why should it be on each citizen to learn how to spot a professional liar? It’s a very hard thing to learn … and then you don’t use it very often because most people won’t just flat lie to you.

          Also … they feed their bullshit message out to millions … near constantly. And close a very tiny percentage. They are waiting for that one day … your worst day … your saddest day … and there they are in your inbox … with a message crafted to slit your throat and slowly drain you dry.

          @spoonfaceboy ::

          You suck. That’s the best you can fucking do after so many months of reading this shit?

          1. You are stupid amounts of wrong.

          2. You like to frame things so as to make yourself feel superior … but you are not superior.

          Go fuck yourself.

          1. @SD, Maybe we should wait for the results of the cranial ultrasound and get the lobotomist’s analysis before we judge spoonface’s strange outburst.

            This all just goes to show that people should NEVER ride unicycles without a helmet, and definitely not with a live Rhesus monkey perched on their shoulder. Poor spoonface. Let’s all chip in and buy him a slinky to help him on the long road back to sanity.

        3. @Sickened, I agree with @SD; you’re not off topic at all. While I actually think @spoonfaceboy has a (small) point about consumer responsibility, he went too far into “blame the victim” territory.

          It seems one of the most common defenses of IM and selfish-help scammers is to claim that all businesses do more or less the same thing — make outrageous promises, charge outrageous prices, etc. Well, apart from the fact that, as @Sickened pointed out, two wrongs don’t make a right, virtually all businesses — at least in the U.S. — are in fact subject to various laws and regulations. Advertisers are restricted as to what they can say.

          Depending upon the type of product or service being sold, there’s very often a government agency that oversees the industry in question, and even if there isn’t a government agency there are rules and regulations in place so that people who are duped have *some* recourse, at least in theory. With the IM scammers, for instance, the FTC comes into play, as does the FDA if health claims are made, and possibly the FCC. In some cases the SEC or even the FBI might be interested.

          As usual, though, @SD had the most powerful rejoinder to the consumer-responsibility argument. It all comes back to this (quoting our host): “Why should it be on each citizen to learn how to spot a professional liar? It’s a very hard thing to learn … and then you don’t use it very often because most people won’t just flat lie to you.”

          There are some of us who have gotten to the point that we just assume that these jokers are lying until and unless they are proven to be telling the truth.

          By the way, there’s another interesting discussion about critics on Erica Douglass’s blog.

          I joined in, but so far my latest comment (my response to the guest blogger’s response to *me*) hasn’t appeared.

          1. @Cosmic Connie,

            I don’t think spoonfaceboy is saying its all the victim’s fault. What he is saying, at least in my opinion, is there are a lot of lying, thieving @ssholes in the world.

            It’s not a matter of how things should be but how they are. Of course two wrongs don’t make a right but you need to know those “wrongs” exist and act accordingly to protect yourself and your family.

            Governmental regulation can’t protect us from everything so its in our best interest to be a bit cynical.

            In fact, at times, the government has shown just how bumbling and incompetent it is.

            The SEC and Madoff (and others like him).

            The FDA relying on drug manufacturers and their proxies to provide accurate drug testing data.

            The entire TARP mess and how the same people who “brought the economy to the brink” are still running the show.

            You need to protect yourself.

            1. @corsair Agreed that personal responsibility has to play a role and that there will always be people who walk around with a target on their foreheads, and then cry victimization. But I think that serial “victims” are probably rare. Serial victimizers, on the other hand, seem to be all over the place.

              I agree with you too about the limits of government regulation, and I have never argued in favor of more regulations or for depending upon the government to protect us from ourselves. (You are spot-on about the FDA, which appears to be a notorious example of governmental agency collusion with the very industry they are supposed to be monitoring.)

              Still… I recently read a comment from the eminently quotable Randy Cohen, ethics columnist for the New York Times. He wrote: “We can make a truly free choice only if we have all salient information. Caveat emptor is prudent counsel for a buyer, not a moral guideline for the seller.”

              And IMO, “caveat emptor” shouldn’t be a legal guideline for the seller either. As I’ve noted before, however, individuals and businesses will try to get away with whatever they can get away with, legally or not. That’s why blogs such as Salty’s provide a valuable service, beyond the entertainment value. I guess you could say that Salty offers one more line of protection for consumers who are willing to avail themselves of the information here.

        4. @Sickened,

          Well said.

          Unfortunately these “gurus” are sociopaths. They are missing a critical part of their character that you possess in spades.

          They have no empathy for others. But don’t let that stop you.

          We need more empathy in this world… not less.

      3. @spoonfaceboy, you said: “I don’t feel sorry for the folks who have a closet full of Amway soap or a hard drive full of shitty information products.”

        It so happens I have a hard drive full of shitty information products and I’m not asking for your sympathy. Yeah, I’m an idiot. I don’t feel sorry for me either.

        I think you have missed the point of this site.

        If I’m not mistaken, it is to educate people on scammy internet marketing products, the con-artist scumbags that sell them and the manipulative techniques they use — so people like me WON’T be idiots anymore. That way, we WON’T click the buy now button. Problem solved!

        If this site were around four years ago, I would never have bought any bullshit info products at all. I might still have my basic moron traits which may be inborn, but at least I would have learned me a few things about deceptive business practices and the criminal mind. And I’d be a bit richer today.

        You seem to think that calling people idiots solves the problem. Pardon me, I hate to disillusion you but, strangely, that doesn’t help. It has something to do with, you know, the logic of reality.

  18. Where is the FTC???

    the fake scarcity tactic is clearly a violation of the rules the FTC set, in their big online scam “crack down”

    I sell golf products online and got a letter from my Merchant processor, saying I shouldn’t list my inventory numbers… my real inventory numbers…

    it might be perceived by the FTC as a scarcity tactic.

    I think a fair number of people here realized the “Sold Out” crap and “Only X number of seats left”, is pure unadulterated “old school” scam.. So if the FTC needs proof… they recorded an admission of guilt!

    again I say.. where is the FTC?

  19. Whatever happened to those things called books?

    I’m aware it’s not “cool” to be seen reading them, but when you consider many bona-fide billionaires devote hours to gleaming knowledge from them then there must be something to them.

    Learning from genuine success stories vs. learning from fraudulent and deceitful liars would be the shortest fight in recorded history.

  20. What’s your name?

    I’m Jason Jones

    What do you do for a living?

    I am a blogger…

    No really, what do you do for a living?

    Nothing really. Just try to expose scammers because I’m a failure at everything in life except for my worthless blog.

    So how do you pay the bills?

    I don’t. I just sit here in front of the computer and don’t shower for days because I think I’m making a difference in the world.

    It’s ok though. My significant other doesn’t mind.

    Although I haven’t had sex in nearly a year.

    Whatever. Fuck the syndicate

    1. @jasonjonesgetajob, Keep telling yourself that over and over again, maybe you’ll even believe it someday…

  21. Received an email from Andy Jenkins about Kajabi. This was the headline and first line.

    “Kajabi still available?

    OK, I know that you’re used to anything from “Andy Jenkins” selling out in a few hours… but Kajabi is a different animal.”


      1. @Frank Kern,

        Hopefully next they’ll learn that they are fake pieces of shit and get a real fucking job.

  22. The main problem is that people think that the magic pill exists and these marketers hype up their copy to sell you a dream. Hype sucks. (It works like hell – But it sucks).

    People want to lose weight but without doing any workout.
    People want to make sh*t load of money overnight by pressing a button.

    But the fact is : magic pill doesn’t exist – and it will never be.

    … Making money require work. Making money requires building a business.

    I seriously think the content of the syndicate is overly priced and ‘shadily’ marketed with false scarcity and too much hype.

    But in the same time I managed to create a 6-fig online business in less than one year from the content learned from Pagan/Kern/Walker/Deiss in my niche business… (glad I got the courses for free through a friend)

    So I’m torn apart here. Love & Hate I guess.

      1. @SD, I second that.

        Proof please… ;)

        I’ll bet you didn’t get them free either, you shelled out stupid prices, you lost money, now you are trying to justify it to yourself.

    1. @Mike,

      “Making money require work”

      Tell that to the politicians and bankers with their bailouts.

      What kind of mentality do you expect the public to have when their leadership figures are fucking dishonest crooks?

      No excuse. Just a fact.

      1. @Repulsive Marketing, Absolutely, the creatures at the (privately owned) Federal Reserve (Bernanke at al), the quasi-government (now 100% government owned) Freddie and Fannie, the Goldman Sachs et al are on another level of crookedom altogether – Bernard Madoff was small fry, a patsy to divert attention from the big fish. Youtube “Peter Schiff – Mortgage bankers speech” and marvel at what people were warning about many years before the collapse.

        BTW – There is no recovery, just a drunken sailor full of bailout money slowly sobering up and then going straight into a coma :)

    2. @Mike,

      Why am I picturing Pinnochio typing your post?

      You built a 6 figure business in less than a year with Syndicate Products?

      I might believe a 6 figure gross with 6 figure expenses (meaning marginal profit but more probably loss) but 6 figures NET … sorry, I’d believe in Obama’s never seen in public long form birth certificate first.

      Devil is in the subtle details you know (short form vs. long form, gross vs. net). ;-)

      If you still contend NET, please tell me just one golden nugget you learned from someone like Deiss that helped you achieve that level of income.

      NOTE: I do NOT mean copy and paste pirated material.

      1. @Hal (the original Hal),

        I think that’s very possible. Look at those real estate investing “gurus”. They’re practically copy-pasting these IM gurus’ products, sales copy, launches, etc.

        Believe it or not, real estate investing gurus make MORE money than IM gurus.

  23. Kajabi is a huge waste of money. You can accomplish basically the SAME THING as Kajabi with a ONE TIME purchase of this WordPress theme, combined with some inexpensive or FREE WordPress social plugins:

    Now, pass the word along to FORGET the outrageous $100 a month Kajabi. Only a fool pays a huge recurring fee for something that can be done for the fraction of the same price.

    That said, let me also say THIS: forget the whole “launch” gimmickry in the first place. It’s shady at best and its days are limited (either from saturation or the inevitable government crackdown that will eventually come from the out-of-control frenzy).

    If your product or service can’t sell based on its merits, you are only one step ahead of backlash. Is that a comfortable place to be?

    1. @FORGET KAJABI, I think they did it for ONE reason, to grab data.

      There is more then a few ways of having this set up way cheaper than that crap.

      I honestly think they banked on many gullible people doing the two week trial and losing all their work at the moment they cancel it… and handing all that to scum like Jenkins.

      Gotta be dumb to fall for that shit.

      1. @rob sellen, It might be their intention, but they know their target market – newbz. Who in their right mind would want to steal niche and keyword data from newbz that fall for their stupid shit?? Oh wait! It’s Andy “the crazy mushroom muncher” Jenkins, ….. aaam ….. yep, carry on!

        1. @Bo, I agree.

          Then again, who knows what one of them newbs stumble on, a gold mine niche, without realising it, then they decide to not use that kajshit and do it on a blog or something… but wait, they lost their data… next thing jenkins gazumps that newb…

          Could just see that happening.

    2. @rob sellen, by “grab data” i can assume i think you mean to sell it of for them to buy many and many more of their much cherishable DEA Schedule I magical mushrooms?

      If it is the truth they are doing the DRUGS like they say on the video it can be serious for Kajablistic businesses becuase one day I heard some people with the drug habit will do anything to make the money to get the drugs.

      Can anyone here want to imagine what “ANYTHING” means?

  24. About Kajabi, from comments on the Warrior Forum:

    “They prohibit you from (copying) and or using any kind of service to copy the data on your “rented” website, so once you start the trial, when you decide to stop it, your data is gone, poof, forever…”

    “In the end, renting is just not a solid business platform.”

    “I wonder how much promotion it would get if the “membership fee” was actually called your “monthly rent?”

    “Also.. simple question. Who here really wants the Syndicate to host 100% of their online business and have access to all their data and statistics?”

    “I have been trying Kajabi for almost 2 days now and its no where near ready. Errors every where, you cant load a squeeze page or a sales page, takes longer than 12 hours to upload a video.”

    “There are much cheaper alternatives that could give you similar bells and whistles. At the price you pay for your monthly membership of Kajabi, you could outsource every element to experts in their given field and still have total control over your own web empire and everything that goes to make up that business.”

    About the so-called “trial” period:

    “You mean set up a serious business for 14 days and then take it all down and move it elsewhere if it doesn’t work out? Or take the time to set up a test and run it for 14 days at the expense of getting on with business? Surely everyone has cottoned on that the 14 day “trial” is a hook? Cancelling a subscription to a magazine after 14 days is one thing, running your business on a trial platform is something else. What serious marketer would do that?”

      1. @Repulsive Marketing, Exactly. It is unusual for any negative comment or review to stay up for more than 5 minutes without being deleted on the Warrior Forum. After all, the moderators there want to keep people in the dark and vulnerable.

    1. @Paul,

      I think “Da Boss” (aka Elf-ass) might even beat Walker’s refund numbers with this gem. I predict a 75% refund rate. :-)

      You hit the nail on the head when you asked what serious marketer would run their actual business on a 14 day trial platform.

      Answer: None (unless on the inside). It’s just a good ole’ noob grinder.

      They’ll bleed as many payments as they can before the marks realize they’ve been had. Then it’s on to the next Syndicate member launch.

      Btw, anyone know who’s up next?

      1. @Hal (the original Hal), Just to be clear, those are all comments quoted from multiple people on the Warrior Forum, so that’s the voice of the crowd speaking. And it says a lot!

  25. Hey SD,
    Just wanted to say something:
    Although I don’t agree 100% with everything you say and how you say it, I really admire the fact that you have put a huge bulls eye on your forehead and have stood up for what you believe is right.

    The world would be a better place if everyone took a stand.

    That’s all

    Have a nice day

    1. @, All it takes is one brave individual for others to see that the only thing to fear is fear itself – if I may paraphrase :)

  26. @, I think the bullseye is on THEIR heads, not salty’s… ;)

    It’s put there by the scammers themselves, salty is just firing their own arrows at their own bulleye. ;)

    After all, salty is sharing what these assholes say in their OWN words.

  27. Hey @robsellen

    Are you done wiping the peanut butter off of your mouth from
    licking it off of Jason’s balls?

    I mean seriously… Why don’t you send him flowers while you’re at it.

    Usually he lets his dog do it, but I guess he made an exception for you

    1. @RobRobSellenOnJasonJonesD*ck,

      I don’t like peanut butter. At all.

      Are you jealous he has balls?

      Why would I do that? Not in the habit of sending men flowers.

      Whatever rocks your boat, maybe one of the syndicate will send you some flowers, if you ask nicely.

      Wonder kind of dog he has, I like dogs. Mine was a german shepherd, she lived to 15 and half, a great age, great pets.

      Like you make a great pet for the syndicate? :)

  28. Hey douch bags… yeah you… have you ever thought how Salty Droid gets these taped confessions? Hmmmm….

    Just something to think about! Cheers…

    1. @Bob Marley,

      people like you are so annoying do you think we care where they came from
      no we actually don’t or let me speak for myself I DONT

      opening a post by calling us all dbags speaks for itself
      go bother someone else

  29. @Brad @Hal

    Give Mike Young Esq. a break. He and his Internet Marketer wife are just trying to make a profit. So what if he makes it defending proven psychopaths and fraudsters. At least he’s able to feed his face with the proceeds and that’s what counts boys.

    brad Reply:
    October 16th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    @Mike Young, Esq.,

    filsaime and the scum he’s associated are bad enough but you’ve jumped into an even lower pool of life, trying to -stand up- for a proven, flat out scumbag. especially when you’re offering up your person blog as the losers personal pr center.

    to think you have any ground to stand on is just foolish and you aren’t fooling anyone here. the more you try to defend your position through your snide, condescending tone only furthers your position as an -ass- for the world to see. especially considering the fact that you’re making statements about -faking it until you make it- and how it’s wrong while that’s exactly how your client got started. you’re sinking him and yourself more than your helping him.


  30. I’m TIRED of seeing this piece of crap “internet lawyer” coming here and bragging about himself.

    Time to expose him…

    … You’d think some one charging $250.00 an hour would live the high life in Plano.

    But you would be wrong.

    Check out his “shack”:
    ~ link removed :: give me a break! ~

    And according to, it’s worth a whopping $90,500:
    ~ ditto ~


    It reminds me of the Warrior Forum Nazi Paul Myers… you know the brave coward who rules with an iron fist… the same guy who Michel Fortin raves about…

    … Well this guy who promises to make you rich lives in a $40k shack in Erie:

    Wake up people. You’re being lied to. These snake oil hucksters are inches away from homelessness. They want you to think you’re just a shiny box away from livin’ la vida loca.

    1. @Internet Law Fraudster,

      Shame on you.

      What the heck does living frugally have to do with anything? You say they are “inches away from homelessness.” Oh? Prove it, then. Because if you don’t or can’t, then you’re walking a fine line.

      Just because they live beneath their means doesn’t make them “inches from homelessness,” let alone liars and thieves. That’s a pretty serious accusation, even libelous, if you ask me.

      It only makes them liars if they ever claimed to live in lofty mansions, and used this false information to mislead you. But from my recollection, they never did.

      According to your philosophy, Facebook is one big scam too, then?

      Wow. This is getting ridiculous.

      Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for cleaning up this industry, too. I’m all for draining the swamp. But let’s stick with the facts rather than resorting to smarmy fisticuffs and playground bullying.

      The more we resort to mockery and namecalling, the more attention is taken away from the real issues. I mean, isn’t there enough facts to go around?

      What matters is not who they are (or where they live). What matters is what they do, including what they do to get you to trust them.

      I understand your point, though. Where they live goes for credibility. That’s only true if they used that information in their sales materials or as a basis for getting you to buy their get-rich-quick snake oil.

      Last time I checked, Mike Young doesn’t sell get-rich-quick schemes, or use his home as a sales point.

      So where he and his wife live is completely irrelevant. In fact, where any of they guys live is irrelevant, because we should focus on the problems — not the petty bull.

      When stuff like this comes out, it tells me that you may be running out of facts. And the very people you’re attempting to intimidate are probably thinking the same way, too. Think about that.

      In fact, this is reminiscent of politicians who don’t have any substance to fight their opponents with, so they resort to smear campaigns and attack ads.

      Stick with facts and the issues. Because the less you do, the more you lessen the impact of the valiant work that Salty and others have done here.

    2. @Internet Law Fraudster,

      You are a complete asshole.

      The posting of private homes like this is designed to harass and intimidate those you disagree with. If you have family, I hope no one does it to you so that you’re stalked, your wife raped, your kid molested, etc.

      Did you ever think for once about the consequences of these kind of actions? Do you care? If not, you’re more of a sociopath or psychopath than any of the Internet marketers who you’ve been going after online.

      There are about 400 people with my name living in the D/FW metroplex out of 6 million people. You made the mistake of picking the wrong one and exposing that “Mike Young” as being me. I don’t know who that home owner is but I feel bad that he’s now a victim of your stupidity.

      3. Before you continue, understand that you’ve just crossed the line into criminal activity. If you’d like some fun reading, take a look at Texas’ new online harassment law.

      I pwn you. If you continue this line of attack, I will destroy you.

        1. @Mike Young, Esq., Are you sure you’re not selling yourself cheaply? After all, I know of some New-Wage gurus who say their hourly rate is $1,000 or more. Apparently a faux-PhD is worth more in the marketplace than a legit law degree.

      1. @Mike Young, Esq., I can sometimes think I don’t like you at many times, but This one is the truth that you told here and it is good that you said it.

      2. @Mike Young, Esq., you’re absolutely right here. Internet Law Fraudster deserves what he gets, especially if he was dumb enough to post that shit with his IP naked for all to see.

        Criticizing shit products and business practices is one thing, insulting & venting is another, but IRL stalking is beyond the pale. The gurus did that to Salty, it wasn’t right then, it’s never right.

      3. @Mike Young, Esq., Your wife raped??? Don’t overdo it with the drama, some people on the fence about you might start to sway and think you’re full of it, if there are any left.

        Sorry, you are not the victim and the poster above is not a villain – Google maps and street view IS PUBLIC INFORMATION and can be linked to. If you have problems with that complain to Google. Hopefully there won’t be any baseless threats any more or someone else might dig around and post that link again…

        1. @Bo,

          The link was to someone else’s house. Not mine. Why are you threatening to re-post it?

          And if you’re psycho enough to post some poor guy’s address and home pic online to attack me, you’re crazy enough to do just about anything.

          Step away from the keyboard, stop salivating about the injuries you’re trying to inflict, and let it sink in that you’re threatening to post someone else’s address online with the hope of it causing injury to me. It won’t be me. It will be the people who live in that house.

          And if you do track down my address and come after my family at home, I’ll exercise the Castle Doctrine to put you six feet under.

          That’s not a threat. That’s a promise.

            1. @rob sellen,

              With regard to the stalking and cyber harassment on this thread by a crazy person, I’ve referred to two laws that apply in Texas. The first is Texas’ online harassment law. The second is the Castle Doctrine. If you don’t understand these laws, talk with your lawyer.

              Although the crazy person continues to post the home address of someone else and claims it is mine, if he searches through all of the property records for homes owned by business entities and individuals in the D/FW metroplex and finds mine to post online, he will be spending time dealing with a variety of legal remedies, including the harassment law.

              If he shows up on my doorstep, the Castle Doctrine kicks in. He does not live in my state. Tracking down my physical residence and traveling half way across the country to pay an unwanted visit will be done by him with the intent to harm. No family member is going to become a police chalk outline because of this nutcase.

            2. @mike young

              I am just asking if you meant literally, by the sounds of it, you mean six feet under by way of ruining them, not killing them?

              I don’t know what that law is, won’t ask a lawyer either, I am not paying someone to tell me what you mean. I ask you because you said it and being a lawyer, I was just asking what you meant by six feet under, not the “castle doctrine”. No offence, just asking. And I expect the law is something different to what an English lawyer understand it.

              I agree, what that person did was wrong…

              Thanks for clearing that up.

            3. @ name not important

              Yeah, I did go look and seen it derives from “defending a mans castle”… as we put it.

              Thanks anyway for that link, there if anyone else needs to know. ;)

              Anyone else…

              Not sure why some people on this blog vote down comments that don’t warrant any vote… sad, silly and petty.

              A vote like that means nothing.

      4. @Mike Young, Esq.,

        you’ve taken the drama to a new level in what i’ll assume is a ploy to detract attention from your scam ridden associations and recent actions. the two laws you state and the way you’re framing their reference are far from accurate. stating that the guy is trying to -harass- or put you in danger is ridiculous. it’s extremely clear that the guy was doing nothing more than showing that you live in shambled state, which he clearly stated (and got wrong).

        and while you may think your home value has nothing to do with this situation, others may see it differently – if you live in a crap hole, it lends credence to the fact that your legal advice may not -up to par- based on your inability to earn. this takes away credibility from any of your legal advice.

        the way you inaccurately throw around and -man handle- laws in your statement also screams to the credibility of your advice.

        stop being a drama queen and focus your energy on some serious meditation/reflection regarding your recent actions. you need a new path.


    3. @Internet Law Fraudster,

      Unlike the Gurus you hear about, my husband and I have a much different perspective on how we should live. Besides the fact that you identified the wrong house, we would never have more house than we can manage. I personally don’t have the time or desire to keep up with anything fancy and think it is a waste of our money to buy more house than we need.

      My husband is not one to brag. He earns a good living as do I in our daily jobs. We like the extra income that our online businesses have generated that allowed us to pay for trips to visit family and take some time off to relax and vacation like any normal family would. Our philosophy is work hard, play hard, but enjoy life in the process. We don’t own any flashy cars, flashy boats, etc.

      We are knowledgeable in our areas of expertise and like to share that knowledge with others. We’ve both studied long hours and worked hard to get to the point we are at in our lives. Anyone who thinks they can get something for nothing is wrong.

      Every successful internet marketer I know who runs their online business like a business started somewhere else. Some were in sales, others were copywriters or on the technical side. Each had to learn and grow. Failing at times so they could learn and improve. Just like in the offline world, most businesses fail within the first year. Those numbers are probably about the same online. But would you discourage a person from trying, from seeking knowledge and an education? Wouldn’t your time be better spent finding those who can help instead of only focusing on those who can’t?

      How are you helping other people? What businesses are you running online? How much have you invested to become proficient in your area of expertise? Are you leveraging your knowledge for the betterment of yourself and others?

      I hope you see that not everyone is out there to get everyone else. The beauty of our nation is that a person who has a dream can put the hard work and effort to bring that dream into reality. I hope you have a dream that you are chasing otherwise what’s your purpose in this life?

      Take a little time to reflect on what you have wrote about others here on this blog. Has any of it helped you become a better person? Have you offered suggestions on ways people can improve? I don’t mind a person giving a review of a product they don’t like or describing their business interactions with a company, but why complain if you don’t have an idea for a better way to do things and then share that idea?

      I wish you the best in life and hope you find something that brings you peace and joy and drives you to work harder every day.

    4. @Internet Law Fraudster ::

      I removed the links. Maybe you were drunk or something.

      Mike Young doesn’t make claims about his income in order to sell products which purport to teach one how to match his income … so his address {which it seems you got wrong anyway} … is ridiculously irrelevant.

  31. Buried Comment (Reason: stupid)   Show

    Tried to post this a few times, apologize if it is duplicated.

    Greetings good people. Did a little
    surfing and found that it seems
    Mike Young Esq. and his wife are
    involved with guess what??

    Internet Marketing businesses &
    a charity of their very own!

    Yep, a charity! Seems like a trend
    for Internet Marketerish type people
    to help set up and run charities!

    His wife says she has a mechanical
    engineering degree, but that she’s
    not using it anymore.

    She only lists 3 sites; one charity site,
    Mike’s lawyering site and the legal
    form generator thing-a-jig.

    Mike Young claimed a couple
    months back in a post reply to me that he
    barely made any money off the internet businesses,
    so I assume he’s truthful and must be making
    his money off the lawyering or something else OR
    he used deception of some sorts to hide the
    fact that he has a vested interest in this
    whole thing himself.

    Unless, there’s money to be made in creating
    charities and “stuff”. Maybe that’s where
    the money is, right Vivian Glyck, Mike Koenigs,
    and Angela Shelton?

    Who knows with these people, they say one thing
    and then do another, they mean one thing but
    pretend to do another, all the while playing
    word games to confuse you even more.

    Is Mike Young playing both sides for a hidden
    agenda of his own?

    Looks like he’s playing the gnome for all he’s
    worth. Hope he takes Filsaime to the cleaners.

    Hugs & kisses,
    Willy Nilly

    P.S. Want to stop losing sales and increase your
    sales instead? For just $199.50 yearly you can be
    a member of the Internet Ethics Council too!

    Don’t worry, it’s all ethical and “stuff” cause
    Mike Young is CEO, Prez and Owner, so you know it’s legit!

    P.S. Speaking of Stephen Pierce and Mike Young, did you know that

    both of them are part of Mike Filsaime’s team of writers for his
    MDC Monthly Newsletter?

    “MDC Monthly is hands down the best print Magazine Newsletter in the

    industry. The quality of of our information is best you will find

    anywhere. Whether you are a newbie or making $10,000 per month, you

    will find this to give you information that can help double your

    business every year. It cost money not to get it.

    Our team of writers include Mike Filsaime, Stephen Pierce, Gary

    Ambrose, Robert Puddy, Michael Young Esq., Edmongd Loh, George

    Brown, Anik Singal, Omar Martin, Joel Williams, Aaron Whiston, David

    Congreave, and Harris Fellman.” – Mike Filsaime

    Hmm… things that make you hmm….

    More things that make you go hmm…

    Strangely enough, there must be either
    another Stephen Pierce who is an Internet
    Marketer and is a client of Michael Young,
    or there’s another Michael Young Esq. who
    was legal counsel for Stephen Pierce.

    One of the sites was updated October 3,2010.

    1. @little willy nilly,

      Doesn’t matter how many names you post under on this site, you’re one sick and twisted individual.

      Let’s cut to the chase.

      1. I do not represent Stephen Pierce as a client. In fact, the last time I ran into him was at an event out in Las Vegas almost two years ago.

      2. Sam’s Day is a legitimate charity that raises funds to find a cure for Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy. Sam’s an 8-year old kid. By the time he’s 12, he will probably be in a wheel chair. If he’s still alive at 18, chances are he will be using a respirator in order to breathe. There is no cure (yet) and it is always fatal.

      3. All proceeds from Sam’s Day go to Parent Project Muscular Dystrophy for finding a cure. If you had a clue who actually runs and supports this charity, it wouldn’t be a fight you’d pick.

      4. My wife and I donate time and money to this cause. However, neither of us control the charity or the funds. I do not represent the charity. Every year, it is a major commitment to be involved but we do it because of Sam and kids like him.

      5. If you had taken any time whatsoever to investigate, you’d know this charity was legit, that we don’t run it, and you’re smearing a worthwhile cause all because (a) you don’t like me and (b) are angry at Internet marketers who you think I represent as legal counsel. Some I represent. Some I do not. That’s irrelevant except in your conspiracy-addled mind.

      6. Not to content to abuse a charity for dying kids, you also decided to attack my wife once again. That’s twice. Getting to be a habit. What’s she ever done to you? Let’s recap her credentials and stack them up against your pathetic existence. She has a four-year mechanical engineering degree from a top school, worked on designing cars for a major auto company, voluntarily left, and chose to work in a different white collar profession that pays about as well as practicing law.

      7. Our Internet businesses are side businesses for both of us. Unlike the gurus you detest, we could walk away from selling products online and still do well. The fact that we do better than you online as side ventures must really upset you as an epic failure.

      It’s a shame that losers like you spend all your time online defaming and harassing people. Then again, it limits your ability to breed and taint the gene pool.

      1. @Mike Young, Esq.,

        while this guy has proven to be an idiot, you’re a bigger one for not expecting every bit of this (people digging into your personal life) to happen by jumping in beat by known frausters and handing them your website to scribble all over. frankly, you deserve all of it.

        “It’s a shame that losers like you spend all your time online defaming and harassing people. Then again, it limits your ability to breed and taint the gene pool.”

        not very professional coming from a -high level- attorney. seems more like immature, schoolyard mud slinging.


    2. @little willy nilly, I am not the big fan of mr. Young, but right now I don’t think I can believe that someone who is just only using a form by mr. Young can mean mr. Young is the attorney for that person.

    3. @little willy nilly,

      I don’t normally spend my free hours following other people’s blogs since I work a full time job that I enjoy, help raise my family, spend time on charities and work side-by-side with my husband in our online businesses.

      But I cannot stand when people get basic facts wrong.

      If you had taken the time to even read the about page on, you would have realized that Sam’s Day was started in 2005 by friends of Sam Killian. That was before I was even involved in Sam’s Day! I have volunteered for the past three years and served on the board the last two. I created the website, not the charity. Besides all the profits go to If you look at any of the donation buttons, etc you would see they redirect there.

      My role on the board is technology focused. Before I joined there wasn’t even a Sam’s Day website, just a page on It was a dream of Sam’s parents to have a website to get the word out to educate people about Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy and help raise money to find a cure. I’m decent with the technical side of things but as I’m sure you’ve seen on there is still room for improvement on the copy and design/layout. (If anyone would want to help revamp the design/style of the site I would be open to the offer.)

      This year the board for Sam’s Day is making a special push to raise funds which is why I asked my husband if we could use our businesses to do so. Sam’s dad was hit by a vehicle going the wrong way on the highway in the spring. After several surgeries he is using a wheel chair and walker to get around. This is a man who multiple times a year would run marathons to raise money for PPMD. He’s not able to run those marathons this year and will be lucky to next year. His family is amazing and I’m so lucky to be able to help in any way I can. You can see the news report at

      I find it absolutely repulsive that you would degrade such a charity and my and my husband’s involvement with it. Brick and Mortar businesses raise money for charities all the time, why should it be any different for online businesses? This is how I get involved with my community, what about you?

      As for my mechanical engineering background, I enjoyed working as an engineer and developing the next generation vehicles, but I also have interests in many other things. An opportunity to switch careers came up that I just couldn’t pass up and I enjoy that job even more than being an engineer. A high percentage of engineers end up in different fields. No big news there.

      As for my personal blog, I don’t have much time to devote to it seeing as I’m so busy with my other activities. I’d love to see your personal blog sometime, but then again you’d actually have to come out of the shadows and share your real name and personal information online. Something that you are obviously too cowardly to do since you post under fake names.

      As my husband already clearly stated, our internet businesses are businesses we run in our spare time. What do you do with your spare time besides belittle other people online with partial truths and false information? If you’d ever taken a journalism class you would know that you should verify your information with three sources before taking it as gospel.

      As for the Internet Ethics Council, it is my and my husband’s ideal of the way people would run their businesses online. It’s no different than the Bar Association code of conduct. We charge a fee for membership to weed out those who aren’t serious about their business. This is one of the sites we put up in our spare time and haven’t been able to give our full focus to. I wish someone like you would put your efforts towards cleaning up this market in a positive way instead of only spotlighting the negative.

      As for my husband, he is one of the kindness people I know but as any wife would agree, I am biased seeing as I married him. What my husband will not stand for is when someone attacks his integrity or family. You’ve crossed both lines which is unacceptable. You can bad mouth our businesses all day long, but are you a customer? Do you even know anything about our businesses? Or do you just see someone’s name mentioned in the same line as someone else you don’t like and therefore assume by association they must be bad? With seven degrees of separation, in your world view you must think everyone is bad then. Grow up and start living in the real world. Every industry I’ve ever been involved in is always much smaller than you think. You will cross paths with people many times, might even form a business relationship only to find out they aren’t who they say they are, but that doesn’t make you a bad person.

      I doubt you will recant or apologize for your inaccurate statements which would be the proper thing to do, but seeing as you won’t even post as your real self, why should I expect you to?

      I’ve said my piece and don’t plan on having to explain myself to you again as this has wasted enough time on a Sunday afternoon that I could have been enjoying time with my family. I hope you find peace in your heart and some way that you can positively influence the internet marketing world. Best of luck to you in all your endeavors.

    4. @little willy nilly ::

      You can’t just assemble a couple of random links and then imply that a charity {for an obviously good cause} is bogus! What the hell is wrong with you?

      JustLikeMyChild came to my attention because they turned a “charity” into a unicorn frauduct :: “Paid for Life” :: which is completely dubious. The fundraising for JustLikeMyChild focuses almost exclusively on the Internet Marketing community :: and their promotional materials contain blatant misstatements. And that’s just what I’ve reported … only tiny fraction of what I actually know.

      Sam’s Day is obviously a local charity {the best kind of charity} :: and I hope they have a great fundraising year in spite of the fact that Mike Young counts Mike Filsaime among his clients.

      This distraction from the real story :: the blood sucking life ruining Syndicate :: is most unwelcome.

      And let me just say this to whoever is willing to listen …

      Lawyers represent bad guys and good guys. I know lots of you are shocked that Mike Young represents Mike Filsaime … but I’ve known that from the beginning … and I don’t care. Lawyers represent shit heads … that’s part of what sucks about being a lawyer. I’m not sure what to think about that bizarro world Gnome press release … but that fact that not all of Mike Young’s clients are on the up-and-up … makes him EXACTLY the same as all the other lawyers I know. It’s part of the biz. And once you start representing someone … suddenly not representing them is not as straight forward as you all seem to think.

      @Sara Young ::

      Hi Sara :: welcome to my most unruly salon.

      1. @SD, Eh? No shock to me that Young represents a bad guy; I’ve no objection to it either, as I’ve spelled out from the start. But he can’t have it all ways.

        If you represent shit heads, you don’t also hold yourself out as some kind of independent ethical crusader. “if Fortin does… I’ll call him on it”, etc, etc. That is disingenuous bullshit. Young refuses to acknowledge this, but brazenly sugar-coats his client’s activities anyway, in the guise of ‘reporter/businessman’.

        You don’t stage ‘interviews’ with your clients, misrepresenting their PR as reported fact, and then pompously claim that you did so as a ‘public service’. Whatever your concerns about the legal profession, it appears Young himself doesn’t share them. He seems to think there’s no conflict of interest between representing his client and (impartially) reporting on their activities as a blogger! Not exactly like all the lawyers I know!

        So the representation is no problem – it’s loudly mouthing off about your ethical credentials while misleading your readers, and arrogantly brushing off criticism as ‘spiteful’ and ‘disgruntled’. Characteristics that will be familiar to you from your investigations into the Syndicate.

        That said, little willy nilly is totally full of shit, and draws attention away from the very real and valid concerns about Young, which are relevant to this discussion. Disappointingly, Young himself has time to retaliate against the trolls (with hillbilly-style threats and childish put-downs), but not to explain his behaviour. Clearly he’s a busy man, and just can’t spare the time…

        1. @208-577-6210 ::

          I wasn’t talking to you :: your points are on point … and I haven’t heard them addressed either.

        2. @208-577-6210, Also one thing more, because I also have read the mr. Filsaime interview too many times now, but i can’t see where it tells us the mr. Young is mr. Filsaime’s attorney?

          Can someone tell me if it is really on there or where maybe I can find it?

          1. @Jack, Maybe Mike Young just “ran out of space” for that disclaimer, since Mike Filsaime’s press release was so long and all, and there was also Mike Young’s own long, (cough) “interview” listing things you should “know” about Mike Filsaime, who is also his client. No biggie, right?

            1. @Kyle, It does make it more like the bizarro post SD said about it then it seems like now.

              I saw before mr. Young is the made-up president of the Ethics place, but what I wanted to know is if maybe we could make up some way to impeach him?

              Does any one here at all know the rules over at mr. Young’s bizarro world place or is it one of the make-it-up-as-you go type of things there, maybe,?

            2. @Jack, I think the rules over at “Bizarro World” are “whatever Mike Young feels like today,” which may possibly be altogether different from yesterday or tomorrow.

              As for the “Ethics Place,” well, I guess Mike would have to impeach himself since he is the founder, chief, owner, and membership-granter. Maybe if you pay him the $200 or so fee he charges to be a member (which shows the world you are ethical, I suppose), then you can vote, but don’t count on it.

          2. @Jack, Given the choice of settin’ out to find either the Loch Ness Monster, or the disclaimer you mention on Mike Young’s blog post/press release, methinks I’d rather take on the challenge of finding Old Nessie, because it could be a far easier task.

  32. @Mike Young Esq, your kind and compassionate demeanor is very apparent in all your responses. I have no trouble believing in your credibility after your most recent post.

    1. @little willy nilly, To be honest mate, while I too am not a great fan of Mike Young, all you’ve done is shoot yourself in the foot with your rants above.

      The only person to lose their credibility is you. About 99% of what you said is pure bollocks (Welsh/English for bullshit).

    2. @little willy nilly, Look dumbass. I’m also not a big Mike Young fan after the recent PR fiasco, although I hope he’ll redeem himself. But you’ve gone too far. You don’t attack someone’s family, asshole. What’s wrong with you? And do yourself a favor. Don’t ever go into research. Your conclusions suck. Fucking moron.

    3. @little willy nilly, I’m definitely no fan of Young, but my thumbs-up goes to Alley-Cat.

      Reasonable accusations and doubts have been raised about Mike Young, but he chooses to gloss over them. His complicity would be obvious were it not for you handing him ammunition by attacking his wife, cyber-stalking him to find his address, and posting all kinds of crap about him.

      Next time you consider accusing him of raping kittens or bringing Stalin to power, please put the keyboard away in a safe place. You aren’t helping here.

  33. A simple question for everyone here. Do you consider all MMO product sellers as scammers? If so why? At what point are they considered a scammer vs. a legitimate product seller?

    1. @Dans,

      No, not all are scammers. However, there are so many out there it’s a minefield for trusting people desperate (i.e. lost their job or other sudden financial setback) to make money.

      As for when do they cross the line, there’s more than one way.

      Here’s a partial list:

      1) They brazenly conduct business contrary to FTC guidelines.
      2) False scarcity tactics.
      3) They lie.
      4) Fake it ’till they make it products.
      5) Coaching Ponzi schemes.
      6) High pressure boiler room follow-ups.
      7) Bully tactics.
      8) Continuity fraud where canceling is next to impossible.

      This is by no means an all inclusive list, I could type for hours on this stuff.

      Basically, if someone is trying to sell you some sort of “secret” that will “gone” if you don’t act “now” or any high priced “info product”, run far and run fast.

      There are no evergreen “magic bullets” or “secret techniques”. ALL evergreen internet business information is freely available (or an affordable price) to everybody.

      You will however have to spend money on web/desktop software, hosting, domains, etc. when you need it, but it will NEVER be anywhere near the $1,997 and up price tag charged for frauducts.

    2. @Dans, more or less, though with this nuance:

      Most “business” books are junk. They harp on “mindset” while upselling you. They’re by Loral Langemeier or Robert Kiyosaki, that type. They usually have about a Tweet’s worth of useful info and spend the rest of the book pumping for the conference, the coaching, the platinum club. Even if they don’t upsell, these books still waste your time by padding thin content. Seth Godin has MASTERED the art of padding. And people LOVE him.

      I’d lump MMO books like “ProBlogger: Secrets for Blogging Your Way to a Six-Figure Income” by Chris Garrett and Darren Rouse in this category. It puts you out $20 for newbie fluff. No one has ever made six figures using it, especially not the authors. But it’s just $20 and 2 hours.

      On a different plane are the online MMO infoproduct scams. If I get a free report, it gives me a Tweet’s worth of info and then a daily email. And videos. And webinars. And new products. And upsells. And launches. And every product’s a new silver bullet, the “missing link” to making my business take off. Yet they all have the same thin info (market research! set up a blog! build a list!) and customers blaming themselves for not making it work. These scams are so much worse than the books it’s not funny.

      Compared to the books, The prices aren’t the big difference– I would gladly pay $5000 for a real product that could teach me step-by-step to replace my full-time income. No product like that exists, though.

      And the fact that none of the products actually do what they promise isn’t the big diff either.

      The difference is that the false intimacy and immediacy of the Internet– the emails, the videos, the telecasts– makes Frank Kern, Andy Jinkies, and Eben DePagalo seem all that much closer at hand. Like pals, even. They know it and play it up. And when you’re in a state of fear– wounded and worried about your & your kids’ future– they get you, and get in your wallet, and you’re poorer in money and spirit. As you realize these $2500 price tags are making your more and more broke, you’re likely to panic and spend even MORE money on the next magic bullet in their pipeline.

      Deadly spiral.

      That said, you can learn some real skills from infoproducts. Just about every one I’ve ever seen “teaches” you how to set up WordPress. Funny thing, so does! With better-made videos. You’re better off learning about business by doing it, and learning about products from their makers. Want to learn SEO? Read Google’s PDF on it: Then try stuff out on a couple of sites and keep track of what happens. Simple stuff, no guru needed. After that, SEO’s all about getting good links. You can use the $2500 you save to take a nice vacation or something…

      1. @Slowly Waking, I saw somebody gave us the plan already here what they said was:

        1. Do a site where people like it and want to keep coming around to it.
        2. Go then to put some advertising on it.
        3. Make money.

        I thought that was the thing SD did here but I think he didn’t do the put the ads and make money part of it.

        I don’t know if the make money part works for real right now because i don’t know about putting ads on my site yet.

        1. @Jack, Or, you could just do what the gurus do. Instead of flushing your feces down the toilet, just package it all up in a box with a manual explaining how to use it, then create a launch, and boom! money.

          Oh, you do need one other thing. Some syndicate buddies that have big mailing lists and are willing to promote your product as something other than the “crap” it is.

      2. @Slowly Waking, I also just saw the link to the SEO pdf and I wanted to tell you thank you on that one. I also do a lot of reading of the SEOBook which is free for me.

  34. Hey Mike Young, Esq. …

    … Your threats to your critics here are as meaningful as my poop. I flush both down one of my 3 toilets in my “shack.”

    For someone who posted the wrong house, you sure did bring in all of the troops, didn’t ya’?

    Question for our dear reader friends: If that Google Maps’ image isn’t Mike Young’s house, then why all of the fuss? Why not just ignore it? I’ll tell you why… because it was Mike E. Young’s house.

    By the way, it’s more than Google… it’s also — put those two together and you can track down anyone’s criminal geography.

    Also… Mike Young does brag about the money he makes (and how we stupid idiots can’t do the same)… just reread his comments above and his blog. And someone living in a shack appraised on for $90k ain’t making $500.00 an hour. And that’s a stone-cold guarantee.

    Finally, all of this, “Haters hate and they waste their time complaining instead of making money” clap trap is garbage and nutty nonsense talk. I make nice money… I could make a LOT more, but I choose to sleep quite well at night not ripping people off.

    And as per popular request, here’s that pic again:
    ~ Droid Edit :: fuck off! ~

    (I’ll post that pic all day and all night under every conceivable anonymous proxy is Salty modifies or deletes my posts. You’ve been warned.)

    1. @Salty & Mike Young Sitting In A Tree… ::

      Oh really fuckwad?

      I don’t think so … and not cause I care that much … it’s just google maps. But I said I don’t want it here … and it shall not appear here. Any further attempt to post it and I’ll just delete your whole comment. You’ve been warned.

    2. @Salty & Mike Young Sitting In A Tree…,

      [QUOTE]… Your threats to your critics here are as meaningful as my poop. I flush both down one of my 3 toilets in my “shack.”[/QUOTE]

      WOW! Three eh? You must be the envy of your trailer park.

    3. @Salty & Mike Young Sitting In A Tree…,

      Whether it’s Mike Young’s house or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s somebody’s house and there’s more than enough kooks on the net who are just looking for an excuse to do violence.

      Nobody here wants to be involved a crime.

      If you have a legitimate axe to grind, do it legally. If you’ve been defrauded by members of the Syndicate, contact the BBB, FTC, etc. and file complaints. At the very least, pass the info on to the Droid.

    4. @Salty & Mike Young Sitting In A Tree…,

      Looks like the Fates have been unleashed from Pandora’s Box. Hard to put them all back in once it’s been opened there Salty.

      If any psychopath roaming the internet decides the wig out on any of the people who have appeared on your website, guess who is liable?

      I don’t disagree with your intent, but you’ve clearly created a monster that’s outside of your control.

      What happens when the mob decides to start dragging innocent bystanders in because of their proximity? Commenters on this site have already done that, calling out people who have nothing to do with your gurus.

      You’re a smart guy, and an “attorney”, so you do understand the inherent liability claim that could be made here, right?

      In the end, it’s always the unintended consequences that gets everyone, scamming gurus AND droids who drum the masses up into a lynchmob frenzy.

      1. @Pandoras Hot Box, WRONG. You are talking out of your ass. The law is well established that electronic forums (as in, this blog) are not responsible for their users’ conduct or comments. Go read up next time before you talk about shit you don’t know. It’s well documented.

      2. @Pandoras Hot Box ::

        “If any psychopath roaming the internet decides the wig out on any of the people who have appeared on your website, guess who is liable?”

        Uhm … the psychopath?

        And in spite of the question mark … that isn’t a “guess”.

  35. @Andy Jenkins takes it balls deep,

    God damn I can’t believe you just put the image in my head of Andy Jenkins taking it balls deep.

    Now I’m going to have to find that sales letter for boner pills that he sent me in his other business just so I can get it up.

  36. This place has been excellent for many people’s on-line education. (Thank you, Mr Droid and the hundreds of commentators.) And over the last few months I have assembled a list on my hard drive, called ‘Those Not to Trust’.

    The reason for this comment is that I would like to know if I’m being unfair to anybody.

    Here’s the list –

    Amish Shah
    Andy Jenkins
    Anik Singal
    Bill Mcrea
    Brian Horn
    Chris Zavadowski
    Dan Thies
    Eben Pagan
    Ed Dale
    Emil Paz
    Ewen Chia
    Frank Kern
    Gary Ambrose
    Jeff Johnson
    Jeff Schwerdt
    Jeff Vacek
    Jeffrey Wyrick
    Joe Cooper
    Joel Peterson
    John Reese
    Jose Rivera
    Josh Schoenly
    Kate Buck
    Keith Baxter
    Leslie Rhode
    Lewis Howes
    Luke Jaten
    Marc Hardgrove
    Michael Rasmussen
    Mike Filsaime
    Mike Long
    Murtaza Yousuf
    Ray Edwards
    Ryan Ringold
    Sean Malarkey
    Skip McGrath
    Sweah Tieng Tan
    Yanik Silver
    Trey Smith
    Zach Booker

    1. @Mr Gray ::

      I don’t know everyone on that list … and I’m not sure that lists are such a great idea.

      If you are trying to “make money online” … here’s a rule instead of a list …

      Don’t trust ANYONE. Make them prove every detail to your non-emotional satisfaction before making a purchase. If they can’t prove every detail :: and aren’t glad to be asked :: then put your wallet away and run.

      1. @SD,

        This particular list was only a personal learning device, as it were. Most of those you don’t know are probably Z-team pushers, who maybe haven’t been paid yet. You know, the ones who lay down with dogs and have now got fleas.

        I use exactly your rule with an addendum.

        Wait a Week.

        That works fine for me.

        And thank you for the public service, Mr Droid.

    2. @Mr Gray,

      Don’t trust Dan Thies or Leslie Rohde?? lol Going to have to question that one … both are legit SEO rockstars.

    3. @Mr Gray,

      Mr. Gray, you missed a couple of the other make money guys:

      Stephen Pierce
      Adam Ginsberg

      Pierce already been busted before by the FTC and Ginsberg banned by Ebay for life…..

    4. @Mr Gray,

      I think a list of traits to avoid would serve you better than a list of names.

      Once you understand “the game” they’re so easy to spot, names become irrelevant.

      For example, Ponzi schemes in coaching programs seem to be in vogue these days.

      They usually make some sort of non-compliant FTC promise. Sometimes it’s brazen, most times it’s implied.

      The amount is requested in lump sum for a term greater than the refund period of the payment gateway is the crux.

      Example: Paypal has a 45 day limit for filing disputes. A Ponzi scheme will therefore demand a lump sum payment that covers a period greater than 45 days (e.g. coaching for a year for $995, $1,997, whatever). They’ll string you along with “the dog ate my homework” or “family tragedy” excuses until the 45 days elapse. Once that happens you have no recourse through Paypal. Many people either give up or hope for the best that the scammer will come through. Those who persist sometimes get their money back provided they can be replaced by a new patsies at a higher price. When enough people file disputes with the scammer (even if outside the 45 day window) Paypal will usually freeze their account, but the scammer moves on to a new payment gateway and the cycle repeats.

      These stories pop up all the time on the Warrior Forum but are taken down almost as fast as they appear. Whether the WF or mods get some sort of kick back for shielding the scammers, I don’t know. I don’t think so, but I don’t know for sure. It may just be part of the broken system overall and the scammers use it to their advantage.

      Since it does take common sense plus experience to easily spots scams, I think the best protection for noobs (in my opinion) is to always do the following:

      1) Only buy something with a clearly stated money back guarantee (unless they’re willing to risk losing the entire payment)

      2) Look for hidden continuity and deceptions. If found, think twice about the type of person who uses them.

      3) Screen capture the sales page, disclosures, etc. before buying anything (in case of refund dispute)

      4) Buy only through payment gateways with a 100% guaranteed refund process if needed.

      Example: Clickbank refunds are pretty much 100% guaranteed, whereas Paydotcom is not, as it’s geared more towards the merchant (other trivia: Paydotcom is owned by Filsaime).

      5) Always buy with Paypal or use a major credit card. Let them fight the battle if needed. You will win every dispute provided your claim is legitimate and you have the screen captures, emails, etc.

      6) NEVER buy anything where the trial period or service period exceeds
      your recourse period. NEVER !!!

      7) ALWAYS review or test the info/product/service within your recourse period and be quick to ask for a refund if you have ANY doubts.

        1. @Slowly Waking,

          That`s an excellent link that would help a lot of people.

          (maybe SD could make that a prominent link for potential Syndicate victims).

          If everybody took to heart just the following two (of the many) warnings from the FTC listed there it would save a lot of heartache and immediately disqualify every Syndicate frauduct:

          1) Get earnings claims in writing. If the business opportunity costs $500 or more, then the promoter must back up the earnings claim in a written document. It should include the earnings claim, as well as the number and percentage of recent clients who have earned at least as much as the promoter suggested. If it’s a work-at-home or other business opportunity that involves an investment of under $500, ask the promoter to put the earnings information in writing.

          2) Take your time. Promoters of fraudulent business opportunities are likely to use high-pressure sales tactics to get you to buy in. If the business opportunity is legitimate, it’ll still be around when you’re ready to decide.

          NOTE: Pay special attention to 1) as it clearly demonstrates how in your face the law is being broken with $500+ frauducts.

          1. @Hal (the original Hal), I don’t recall the specific link, but the FTC includes $500 bizopps spread out over time.

            So if you join a MEMBERSHIP SITE or a COACHING PROGRAM with a low monthly price, and you stick around long enough that you’ve blown $500 and got no return, ask for that motherfuckin refund.

            Gurus don’t write rhymes but they gotta write checks

            $$$ refund checks $$$

            1. @Slowly Waking, Actually, the FTC is referring to the state D.A. level regarding bizops (although the usual FTC requirements also apply as well). In California, for example, it’s $500, and it’s cumulative over 6 months. It’s referred to as a “Seller Assisted Marketing Plan” if you want to google it. Many if not most states have similar requirements.

              If complaints were made to DAs offices across the country, many of the gurus would be quickly overwhelmed with accountabiity. That’s because these guys have to register with each state in ADVANCE and there are some tough requirements they must meet. I doubt any of these guys have ever done that.

              Want to see some action? This is the way to get it. Remember, they had to register for EVERY state they sold into…so that’s a lot of grief if they are reported to each state!

            2. @Walt, good call! I don’t know this stuff– but I loves to quote it at 900kph to the refund-having-to-give-gurus!

    5. @Mr Gray,

      What about Joe vitale?

      Attracting cars from the universe?
      I think that kind of bullshit deserves to be on the list too.

      And what about Harlan…

      Overweight turd ball with his fake-nlp copywriting and his beach whales…

      Not too mention his number one agenda:

      Taking advantage of those who watched “The secret” but failed to “attract”(get) a red ferrari and transform the pictures on a visionboard(which is really just a board) into real physical objects.

      These two fake-doctors deserve to be on the list…

      Especially Joe, who by the way doesn’t attract cars, but rather pay for them with the money he makes selling hypno-metaphysical mumbo jumbo.

      “The missing key” is one of his (way too many) books.

      The title indicates that something’s missing.
      he’s right, If you buy this book it’s because your brains missing, that’s all.

      The missing key aka your brain.

      Actually The title is designed for clever people like you and me to think twice before buying it.

      1. @Mathias,

        The missing key aka your brain

        Haha. Excellent.

        “Dr.” Vitale probably leased that Rolls. I was amused at his disingenuous weaseling out of questions about manifesting hair on his shiny pate:

        If your five-step formula works, why don’t you attract hair?

        You have to want to attract it. I don’t care if I have hair on my head or not. Your question implies that baldness is bad. It’s not. Some of the sexiest people alive are bald, such as actors Sean Connery and Bruce Willis. Some people even shave their head to become bald. If I wanted hair, I’d find a way to attract it.

        And he’s got an explanation about why he attracted misfortune too.

        I read on your blog that you were burglarized in Los Angeles. Did you attract that?

        You attract everything. So do I. My hotel room was broken into and they stole my laptop, iPod and cash. They left jewelry and expensive leather jackets. This is relevant because only weeks before I had been thinking about buying a new laptop and iPod. The criminals took what I was ready to let go of. And the cash they got was cash I give away to servers and homeless people. In short, I attracted an experience that fit exactly what I unconsciously wanted.

        How convenient, “Dr.” Vitale!

        1. @Random Reader, how exhausting to come up with bullshit explanations for everything that happens…

          If the Universe were just, Mr. Vitale would attract a car that runs him over.

        2. @Random Reader,

          I attract everything?

          Holy shit!

          So if some weird dude in hawaii gets killed by a shark… That was my fault? I attracted that event?

          Thats frickin awesome!(or quite disturbing)

          So everything that happens( or manifests as Joe would say) is the direct result of my thoughts… hmmm…

          So i walked past a guy today… he was handicapped…
          I guess my thoughts keep him that way… or maybe it’s him…. I dont’t know? Who’s responsible for the fact that he’s still handicapped? Is it me? or ís it him?

          Cause obvisouly it’s either him or me right? Because there’s no such thing as outside factors…

          You buy an icecream… the shop, the guy standing behind the desk, the icecream. Everything was manifestated by you just so you could get that lovely icecream… Ahh… nice.

          It seems like Mojo JoeJoe beliefs that The External world is yours, so shape it in whatever way you like.

          Uuh… that’s sounds like a good fucking way to justify everything you do….

          Joe Vitale… You are not a fucking kid anymore…. grow up!

      2. @Mathias,

        Good thinking. I had forgotten the two phony doctors of nothing. I confess that I find Vitale so disgusting that I shudder and hurry away.

        By the way, another charmer hopped on to my intray today. A character called Brock Felt. Very very not nice. Even the Worriers Forum don’t like him.

        By another way, I have set up my gmail filters so that, fr’instance, when John Reese comes by, he skips the intray and goes straight to a department marked TOILET.

        Pity I don’t have the technical skill to make the right sounds when I flush ’em. Any suggestions anyone?

        1. @Mr Gray,

          If you see Brock Felt, a Pumped up dude with a big fake smile and a nice haircut… trying to Sell you a 20k dollar information product.

          Run as fast you can. Run, run from total creepiness.

          At least that’s my advice.

        2. @Mr Gray,

          Haha You flush John Cheese?

          I can imagine the scene.

          “Hi, Im John Reese, and im a real boy”


  37. Maybe we should count our blessings that people like Mr. “Mike Young, ESQ” big shot internet lawyer, aren’t in higher positions of power, when they say such childish statements to others like “I pwn you” and “I will destroy you”.

    Grow up. Have some decency. I don’t care if that guy was acting like a child posting what he did. You should hold yourself to a higher standard.

    1. @Gee,

      I don’t aspire to higher positions of power. I do intend to protect my family from a nutcase who likes to hunt down people he disagrees with and post their home addresses online to at a minimum intimidate and at worst to incite violence. This isn’t the first time he’s done it.

      In my case, he posted some other guy’s home address. How would you feel if you were that guy? He’s someone who doesn’t know either me or the stalker.

      This isn’t something to take lightly. When I was in middle school, the former mayor of my town was brutally killed by a crazy woman who tracked him down at his home because she thought he was the current mayor. 15 minutes of local fame for killing the wrong intended target.

      And if you had someone cyber stalking you and your family, I suspect you’d be singing a different tune instead of trying to claim the moral high ground.

      Here’s another one that I had to deal with personally. A business client at my former law firm requested emergency legal help because his adult daughter had just been killed in her home by a stalker. To protect the grandkids, legal papers had to be filed immediately in court. I got to meet the entire family as they postponed the daughter’s funeral for about a half hour so that the client and his wife could sign the necessary legal documents to file with the court. I saw first hand the damage one stalker could do…and I will never let the nutcase posting here do that to my family.

      Then again, maybe where you come from, cyber stalkers are really the victims of those they hunt. Sorry to disappoint you but even lawyers have the right to defend themselves and their families against stalkers.

  38. I was just watching an interview Charlie Rose did with Jeff Bezos of, and what he had to say about the evolving way of doing business in the present day is right on the money.

    All these frauduct salesmen would do well to listen to the man.

    Here’s what Bezos had to say:

    I think this [the power of social media and word of mouth on the internet] is a very positive phenomenon for society, because in the past, if you were making a product, the right business strategy – not necessarily the right strategy for society, but the right business strategy – was to put 70% of your attention, energy and dollars into shouting about the product, into marketing the product, and 30% into building a great product. And so, you if could win with a mediocre product, you were a good enough marketer.

    I think that is getting harder to do – that strategy. The balance of power is shifting away from companies and towards the consumers. The individual is getting empowered. The right way to respond to this if you’re a company, is to say, “OK. I’m going to put the vast majority of my energy, attention and dollars into building a great product or service, and put a smaller amount into shouting about it (marketing it.)”

    Video link (it’s mostly about the Kindle, but skip to 36:28):

    1. @Random Reader, He’s right on the money, and in the future, the guru crapsters will be forever labelled as “shit sellers.” Marketplace karma.

    2. @Random Reader,

      In one of his “seminars” Eben Pagan recommends to his flock of sheep that they “spend 80% of their time on marketing and 20% on content” –this pretty much guarantees low quality overpriced products. This attitude of theirs that marketing is all that matters is the frauduct recipe….

  39. Guaranteed there ain’t a soul on this site commenting that’s making any real money online.

    Most of these “gurus” don’t sell shit products. 90% of the people who buy them just don’t do a damn thing with them. Then blame their laziness on bogus claims or inadequate content.

    Jenkins is a bad guy because he orchestrated scarcity into his product launch??? C’mon man… you’re naive if you think the use of “false scarcity” as you call it isn’t being employed by many of the biggest companies on the planet whenever they release a big new product. That’s why most of the highly-respected books on marketing instruct readers to incorporate scarcity into promotions. It’s marketing 101, my man.

    What’s hysterical about the folks who comment on this site is that anybody at all who has had any level of success with internet marketing is “obviously someone you can’t trust”.

    It seems a lot more like resentment over their success than it does spreading the word about their “misdeeds”.

    You guys will continue to accomplish nothing online, and will continue to resent others success, as long as you continue to buy into this dude’s concocted victim-mentality-bullshit.

    1. @Salty Luva, Sigh. You’re so right – I am sure someone who has time to scroll down to comment #230 on an old post to add a careful comment-spanking to all the little trolls is probably rolling in millions.

      What’s hysterical, is watching you douchebags squirm.
      That, and the blind, retarded minions swallowing the kool-aid as it sprays from your limp dicks all over the Warrior Forum.

      “It seems a lot more like resentment over their success than it does spreading the word about their “misdeeds”.”
      Maybe you should learn to read then before you return with more golden nuggets? Hurry off now – I am sure there are plenty of withered, useless helmets you need to keep polishing.
      Great work though – you showed ’em. Ooops – I meant me – you showed me how useless I am. Leading by example rules.

    2. @Salty Luva, You are an idiot. It’s not even RELEVANT if there is a “soul on this site” making money or not. That’s your delusion. There is no pre-requisite for outing the scammers you worship.

    3. @Salty Luva, this again?

      Making money IRL is a million times better than online.

      AND your points get shot down every other day. Nobody here hates success. Mark Zuckerberg, Nick Denton, even that really fucking boring guy who writes the Simple Dollar might find a non-rabid reception here. ‘My man,’ I have ‘mad’ respect for how Amazon upsells me, and it is ‘Marketing 101, fo’ shizzle.’

      But guruproducts are SHITTAY= lies about income, lies about timeframes, lies about “secrets THEY don’t want you to crow about,” lies about “massive action,” and a bunch of high-school level marketing classes gussied up in cheapshit homemade audio & video & PDFs (stay classy, gurus!). If you succeed after reading, blame your hard work! You would have succeeded FASTER without the guru shit.

      You can stick all of Mass Control’s content in a Tweet. With YOUR dick. And brain. Though I’ve never seen any of the three, so there might be room left over.

  40. Salty, I know you mean well, but you’re turning into the internet marketing Hitler.

    Be careful… someone might seriously get hurt and you’ll have to live with it. Think about it.

    With your talents shouldn’t you be battling sextrafficking pimps or something?

        1. Well, if you think about it… your blog is kind of Hitlerish.

          You’re stirring up a bunch of people who are victims of a tough economic time.

          You’re getting people fired up and they’re just getting more and more hateful toward a group of people who you call greedy.

          Even though you mean well, that’s text book Nazi.

          1. @Bah, Dreams that don’t work – well, the syndicate is selling you a final solution for your business, perhaps, if you need to preserve your feeble imagery.

            Or maybe you don’t understand anything about history, or reality, and simply want to defend the guys you gave so much money to. Nazis are scary and bad, so easy score.

            It’s ok, Bah…let it all out. Deiss might even let you return his Traffic Accident if you hurry…call it an Allied victory.

          2. @Bah, I think he’s used terms other than greedy, such as fraud, crook, scammer, etc. So you are totally downplaying the reality here. Did you learn that at “launch a frauduct” school? How to minimize the truth?

            Maybe you need to go picket some prisons and get your friends released so you won’t need to obsess about all your bad friends getting attention here.

          3. @Bah,

            Finally, an (unintentionally) funny troll!

            I think Hitler also had some ideas about a superior human race, concentration camps, etc. You might want to consult that ‘textbook’ of yours again.

            1. Whatever you say internet marketing Nazis… one of these days someone’s going to get hurt and you’ll have to live with it.

            2. @Bah

              I’ll sleep just fine. Because I’m not responsible for the actions of a nutcase. And because the risk of said action is not a reason to never criticise anything.

              Following your logic, nobody should ever criticise a politician, because you’d have to ‘live with yourself’ if they were assassinated someday. Crazy, just crazy. You ought to think about the logical implications of these insane beliefs of yours.

              Criticism is not the same as murdering millions of people.

              Speaking out against someone does not make you culpable if that person dies at someone else’s hands.

              The Pope is a Catholic.

              Bears have been known to…you can finish this one yourself.

            3. Sounds like you’re just giving nutcases a reason to act.

              I’m not here to argue with you guys about internet marketers and gurus.

              I think most people here are here because they want to make a positive difference.

              And it seems like some of what you’re saying is cleaning up the industry. People are getting paranoid about you.

              And in other instances, people are making threats. That’s not cool.

    1. @lol@losers, FAIL.
      Bait that hook again troll. Or, I mean Andy. Nice tits, BTW.
      (even if you are not Andy, I imagine you as one of his tits)

    2. @lol@losers,

      “Too bad being a loser doesn’t pay.”

      Yep, You must know it from first hand experience

      “If it did, most everyone here would be a gazillionaire”

      You’re right we’re not gazzilionaires(whatever that is)
      In fact, Nobody is. But go for those fake non-real gazillion dolllars…

      that’s cool. Go for it, read some info-marketing shit and take action and maybe, well maybe gazzilions of fake imaginary money will flow into your paypal account.

      Problem is, the money supply currently consists of only trillions.

      You could try Counterfeiting, i mean… that is a fast way to get rich… try it. see what happens.

      Is it risky?… Nah… You can cheat the law. Just belief in yourself dude. Post some cool surfer-videos on youtube, you know show some fake-personality… Presto, and you’ll be immune from prosecution.
      You can do it. Just don’t forget to ‘take massive criminal action’

  41. I’m not afraid to take a stand, everybody we’ll walk this road together through this guru shit storm…

    Michael Young, esq.. I’m confused.. you said you never had Stephen (Thieven) Pierce as a client yet you’re listed as the Law Office on his SuperTrash site..

    No place for posting of your personal info and attacks on wife and kids dont belong here, but u gotta explain this one….

    1. @The Real Slim Salty,

      You are writing words that I never said.

      I have done legal work for Pierce in the past. I wrote that Pierce is not a client and that I haven’t seen him since running into him in Las Vegas in early 2009. That is 100% accurate.

      As for your particular accusation, the #1 software for do-it-yourself website legal forms happens to use legal documents from my law firm for use in the software. That’s why the copyright notice reflects my law firm on the forms…not because of an attorney-client relationship.

      Hate to break your bubble, but there are thousands of websites with the same documents generated by different versions of the software.

      Purchasing the software doesn’t create an attorney-client relationship. It creates a seller-customer relationship between the software vending company and the purchaser. It also creates a licensor-licensee relationship.

      Before continuing with the “gotcha” inquisition, please read what I posted today at

      It addresses most issues raised on this blog about past, existing, and prospective clients. Whether you like what you read or not is up to you. But those are my answers.

      1. @Mike Young, Esq.,

        Somebody asks you a question out of curiosity and you give a pompous response? Relax with the attitude.

        He asked a simple legitimate question that would intrigue anyone without passing any judgement on you.

        And by the way, I’m not impressed with your attempts to try to portray yourself as some highly talented, successful and superior professional/businessmen.

        Lose the ego, I’ve met and seen plenty of successful businessmen along with knowing about all aspects of success in terms of knowledge, theory, techniques and concepts to get there.

        Every individual should be respected but nobody praised, don’t go around thinking you can force people to believe what you think of yourself.

        Defend yourself but don’t go around thinking you are entitled to be so praised that someone who is GENUINELY curious about a issue they may have about you, your business or your legal practice – that they can’t kindly question it…

        I respect you just like every other individual but I will not accept your mindset of not being accountable to the same genuine questionability that others are subjected too.

        PS. The user who tried to post personal information about you I think was very wrong for doing so and I think that person was foolish since it had nothing to do with the issue on hand.

    2. @The Real Slim Salty, if its the same person as the other one I can maybe at least say this: the quality of your stupidity is rising.

      can you what says “licensed for use” on the site?

  42. Hi

    I’ve been reading your posts on the Internet Marketing Syndicate with great interest.

    When I did my Marketing degree at University a couple of years ago, I had to do a subject called “Establish Legal Requirements”

    I’m an Australian, so I don’t know what the laws are in the United States and I haven’t looked at the subject in a couple of years, but I’m pretty sure creating a cartel in the fashion these Internet Marketers are doing is illegal.

    There is enough doubt in my mind that I wouldn’t create or join such a (for lack of a better word) scheme.

    Thank you for posting these clips.


  43. @Andy Jenkins takes it balls deep,

    Great name… but you’re wrong on this one. I live in CA and work in real estate. I assume you probably don’t live in CA by your estimate.

    Kern’s home could easily be a 6 million dollar home. Even after the housing crash, home values in La Jolla remain quite high. At the very least, I would say it’s a 2-3 million dollar home. And that would be considered a steal for a home in that area.

    1. @Halfway Crook, Assuming he owns it, has equity, and can sell it for at least that. Or, he can launch some more bullshit to dig himself out.

      1. @Floyd, I would imagine he does own it but who really knows? Values haven’t dropped much in that area relative to other parts of CA so I would also assume he’s not underwater.

        He also moved there after the market took a slide so he probably got it for a pretty good price. If anything he may be underwater a little bit, but I doubt it. Prices are damn high in La Jolla.

  44. Ok Salt, spill it…where the f@ck are you getting these phone conversations from? Are you the anti-syndicate, with a syndicate-member on the inside? That’s two private conversations you’ve got with Jeff Cock-Walker and Andy Junk-in-your-trunkins. How?

  45. Or I could just wait Andy for it to magically re open in a weeks time.

    Ps care to take a guess who the FTC is coming after next ;)

    Anyway lots of luv Fat Breath like a hippo Conman and soon to be handing over a pile of money to a court near you.

    Ps I luv Kajabi way to go rip off a facebook application add a write as you see it author and re sell Amazon hosting services for hundreds of times it would normally cost.

    Speaking of Like A Boss You’ll luv my new video series . In fact I dare to predict you’re going to find it orgasmic its a little story about how people use false scarcity tactics to sell their products, then blame their delivery people for fuckin up the orders.

    I think video one will be an instant hit I’m sure I’ll get rave reviews from the FTC

    But just in case Ill ask the go to man pillar of the internet community and beyond reproach for his honesty Jeff Walker for a few tips…

    Video two is who do you think the boys run down when John Reese isn’t around you need a clue fat boy ;)

    Video three is a doozie I’m going to explain step by step how a complete newbie can put in a complaint to the ftc after being sold with luv the Magic Bullet but not Magic Bullet

    I’m lining up my favorite little gnome to be a super affiliate and requesting him to get his Butterfly fart so hard the wave reaches China and I’ll be calling on my friends in the mob to make sure no one else is promoting anything the same day as me.

    You’ll luv the JV Partners prize pack Andy Free Magic Mushrooms for all.

    See you on the inside.

    Your biggest fan

    Ps your royalty check is in the mail same as my Stompernet package is I predict they will arrive around about the same time.

  46. Lol Salty you have really done it your serious slinging off of “Andy keep your hands of my doughnuts Jenkins” has played such a major effect in a downside in revenue I’m sure I saw him moonlighting in some burger king ads

    Rumor has it this is just a training run for some guest appearances he plans to do on Jenny Craig.

    Others things rumored to be in the pipeline is Andy doing sound effects for a sleeping hippo in the sequel to the Lion King on set sound technicians swear that Andy’s breathing after some real serious exercise (ripping open his doughnuts bag) sounds so authentic its impossible to tell the two apart.

  47. Hilarious video @Salty. The amazing thing is, how they literally have “trained” people to buy their shit. It’s like a cult…ie.”whatever we tell you to do, you do.”. That’s some scary shit there.

    I wonder how many of the people who in the B group of affiliates actually make a living off their IM efforts, and how many are one or two late payments away from having the car repossessed or evicted from their apartments (as opposed to living a life of “abundance”, working 3 hours a day and making 6-figures, ie. FAKERS :).

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