29 Comments »

Syndicate H8r said:
Thank Jeebus :)
I was worried you got reprogrammed!
  +6
[Reply]
# 18 March 2013 at 6:30 pm

zila said:
Yay, you’re back!!!!
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]
# 18 March 2013 at 8:09 pm

Madge Crikey said:
I am sure glad you are back, Salty. I think I am going to bake you some of my famous oatmeal cookies. Sorghum and Molasses are just what a growing young man such as yourself needs in order to have plenty of energy. Then you’ll really be able to kick those fuckers asses!
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 18 March 2013 at 9:19 pm

Matt said:
I too can count myself among the sad sacks who thought Salty had been snatched by Syndicate-funded Jawas and repurposed into Budweiser cans… or something.
Good to see that wasn’t the case. Go get those fuckers.
  +3
[Reply]
# 18 March 2013 at 10:10 pm

Omri Shabat said:
It’s an almost 8,000 words feature… and not one word that matters. It’s like the Game of Thrones school parody, only based on the real suffering and misery of the simplefolks and not on the imaginative mind of George R. R. Martin. Journalism is a dish best served cold (or not at all as in Vanity’s case).
  +6
[Reply]
# 18 March 2013 at 11:35 pm

Shorty said:
Man, I really missed your crabby robot mocking of all things scammy! I also would have liked to see a Christopher Hitchens take on Herbalife. Vanity Fair’s really gone downhill without the witty contrarian :(
  +2
[Reply]
# 18 March 2013 at 11:44 pm

fs said:
Preach. This situation is infuriating. Reading articles about herbalife/ackman is a hair-tearing-out experience. SD truly seems like the only one making any sense! And he is a fake robot who speaks almost entirely in sarcasm!
History will show the salty droid to be a true lone cryer of the truth (and in this case, Ackman too I suppose).
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]
# 19 March 2013 at 3:57 am

Wyrd said:
I tried to read the Vanity Fair article. It’s hard to do though. Every few sentences or so, I can feel my tongue start to get pulled out of my mouth to get stuck on a stove. It’s that kind of article–the kind that doesn’t just not-inform, but rather it misinforms. When you read it fully, you’re like to come away knowing less thank when you started. AFAICT, it spends almost the whole time conducting a subtle character attack on Ackman instead of focusing on his facts and evidence and stuff. One presumes that would be because Ackman’s facts and evidence and stuff
http://factsaboutherbalife.com/
are kinda overwhelming. So anyone who’s pro-Herbalife is going to want to spend as little time focusing on those as possible. (The Chewbacca Defense.)
I don’t know Ackman. I do know that anyone that says things that are unpopular is, obviously, going to tend to have a reputation for being irritating and annoying. But that in and of itself isn’t enough to dismiss what they say out of hand.
From the stupid Vanity Fair article
Adrangi is not persuaded. “We have high-conviction ideas, and, oops, it doesn’t work out,” he says. “But what’s important is to pay attention to what the other side is saying, and to revise your thesis. . . . Since Ackman’s pres­en­ta­tion, more information has come out. Bob Chapman put together a very good, five-page letter on why Herbalife is a long. Dan Loeb has done the same thing. The company’s response presentation was excellent Ackman is making this moral,” Adrangi continues. “He runs a hedge fund, right? His duty is not to the world. If you want to save the world, go donate some money to charity. I’m pretty confident that if he does not cover his short position his fund will be smaller, materially, in two years’ time.”
Yes, that’s right, World–just pretend this is simply a matter of dueling hedge fund managers and that the market itself is able to determine which side is or was “right”. Don’t look too closely, else you might accidentally see the Mark Twain-Guided Age-style Truth of the situation–something’s rotten in the state of Herbalife. I mean: Herbalife is completely rotten right down to its worm-maggot-riddled core. The reason more folks don’t see that is the (perceived or actual) monetary incentive in maintaining a state of willful blindness.
SD wrote
I know :: I was gone for a longish time …
Welcome back, Salty.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 9:01 pm
@Wyrd,
It attempts to smear Ackman and winds up smearing everyone else involved, from my point of view.
Here’s Bob Chapman’s letter:
http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2013/01/02/HLF%20by%20Chapman%20Capital%2012-29-2012.pdf
Lots of the stuff he wrote is directly contradicted by the Vanity Fair article, and his predictions about Herbalife’s response and effective use of its mercenaries didn’t come to pass, no matter what Adrangi (who?) claims. And what is up with his lame attempts at humor? Keep your day job, Bobby,
Evidently Adrangi (who?) has never heard of socially responsible funds, people like Bill Gates investing in clean energy, or B Corps. Some people like to use their capitalism for good.
I thought Vanity Fair was a real magazine, but “tech blog” The Verge kicked their asses on Herbalife coverage.
  +6
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 11:05 pm
@Wyrd, I stopped from reading the Vanity Fair article when I figured out about that it wasn’t anything about Anik Singal.
  +3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 11:10 pm
@Jack ::
Good point.
My article is guilty of the same …
… remedied.
[Reply]

poilu Reply:
March 22nd, 2013 at 6:25 pm
As far as the average Vanity Fair reader is concerned, Herbalife’s victims are just a bunch of rubes from flyover country. The only thing interesting to them is the Ackman/Icahn duel.
Christopher Hitchens would have said they had it coming. They’re not the beautiful people, after all.
  0
[Reply]
# 19 March 2013 at 12:09 pm

Jeffrey Hammond said:
Ahh the Droid is back! Can we not rejoice?
Were it not for the Salty I would not know of the frauducts and flopportunities that empty the wallets of so many. I would not talk of LGATs over my lattes, or MLMs while I take my herbs and vitamins – I would not know NLP from the NBA.
The fact that the mainstream is syncing onto online fraud is the sweet success of the truth tellers which in my book has Salty top o’ page. The Robbins and Rays and Vitales and Kerns and Koenigs. The rest of the long, long list.
Let’s hope the public lens focuses on whats left : like all of it. Got to start somewhere.
Thanks again Salty. Welcome back!
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]
# 19 March 2013 at 11:22 pm

Michael Webster said:
No matter what you think of the MLM Herbalife, and I agree with most of the economic analysis which shows its business model does not meet the FTC Amway Settlement Standards, Ackerman needs more than economic analytis on his side if he hopes to get some but not all the distributors to drop Herbalife.
  +3
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
March 20th, 2013 at 12:34 pm
@Michael Webster,
I don’t think Bill Ackman’s trying to convince distributors. I think he’s trying to convince the stock exchange. But I do think he needs more. Specifically, I think an FTC investigation and some sort of federal criminal investigation would go a long way towards the helping.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
March 20th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
@Michael Webster ::
Agreed.
So far he’s done almost nothing that would reach deep enough inside the MLM subculture to make a difference with the distributors.
But I’m back now … and that just happens to be my speciality.
@Wyrd ::
Waiting for the FTC to do something is like waiting for Bloody Mary to have a baby.
Boom! That joke would have killed in the 16th century :: or it would have got me killed … one or the other.
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
March 20th, 2013 at 1:45 pm
@SD,
Maybe Ackman didn’t know that it is incredibly difficult to get the FTC to act.
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
March 20th, 2013 at 2:06 pm
@Wyrd ::
Nah. He knows that for sures :: but he’s not short of self-confidence {as Vanity Fair may have just pointed out} … and thinks he can force the FTC to act by talking shit about them in all the fanciest places. He’s prolly right :: because they are a total embarrassment totally embarrassing themselves … but it could take awhile.
That’s part of the unusual opportunity presented by this situation :: and why everyone who hates scams needs to line up behind Ackman and pile on to Herbalife … even if you don’t usually follow MLM much.
Important people are paying attention … what are we going to do about it?
[Reply]
# 20 March 2013 at 11:43 am

Jack said:
I just saw about Daniel Ravicher of The Public Patent Foundation now filing the “shareholder derivative complaint accusing directors and officers of JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo and Bank of America of facilitating a pyramid scheme by extending a total of $1.2 billion in credit to the controversial nutrition company Herbalife”
Story:
http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/ViewNews.aspx?id=71377&terms=%40ReutersTopicCodes+CONTAINS+'ANV‘
Filing:
http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/uploadedFiles/Reuters_Content/2013/03_-_March/herbalifederivativesuit.pdf
  +3
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
March 20th, 2013 at 4:09 pm
@Jack, Of note may be that Ravicher “usually doesn’t follow MLM much” as somebody above once said about people who should be going to get involved.
  +3
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
March 20th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
@Jack,
Well that is all very interesting. Since he’s a lawyer, he presumably knows what he’s getting himself into. So that’s good.
  +2
[Reply]
# 20 March 2013 at 4:03 pm

Wyrd -- The Verge ing Scamworld style said:
I dunno why this didn’t generate a link-back thingie. But then there’s probably a lot of blogging particulars that I don’t know about.
Joe Flatley is back. (Except actually that’s not fair of me. The main byline is to: Matt Stroud with another byline a bit lower crediting Matt Stroud and Joseph L. Flatley, with additional reporting by Jesse Hicks.)
But @SD knows about the article at least partly already since he’s quoted in it.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/27/4099100/income-at-home-herbalife-scamworld-biz-opp
I seem to recall that we already knew that “AtHome” was a front for Herbalife. But things always seem more real the more attention they’re given. Also, there’s been so much focus on “is Herbalife a pyramid or just an MLM” that it’s easy to miss the larger indicators (not the FTC’s indicators) of scammy McStamsterness.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +2
[Reply]
# 27 March 2013 at 10:50 pm

Wyrd said:
Well this is interesting..
Ex- FDA exec says lawmaker [Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah] killed FDA probe into Herbalife
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/ex_fda_exec_said_lawmaker_killed_7UyAEakBD09XYRiBnJJmPI
“In two separate interviews, Shumate and a former field inspector, Deborah Ralston, said in the early 1980s the agency planned a “massive operation” to simultaneously seize Herbalife product from five warehouses based on allegedly fraudulent claims of its effectiveness.”
“I was told … that Sen. Orrin Hatch had had a discussion with the commissioner, and there were not going to be any seizures,” Shumate said, in a lengthy discussion of how politics was encroaching on the FDA.
Of course
“A spokesman for Sen. Hatch called the comments “baseless.””
And, of course, Herbalife has a non-denial denial–not actually saying that none of this happened, but just saying that this “unsubstantiated speculation about ancient history”.
I guess it’s purely coincidental that
Since 2007, Herbalife execs and its PAC have donated $42,008 to Hatch, enough to make it the No. 8 source of donations to the lawmaker, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Of course, to be fair, the current important claim is not that the diet powder doesn’t work as (currently) advertised, but rather that the whole business model is inherently fraudulent. Still, it suggests that “friends in high places” are keeping the wheels greased to help Herbalife keep on doing… whatever it is that it does.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +2
[Reply]
# 30 March 2013 at 9:26 am

2+2=4 said:
This article seems to be making the rounds this week for those following the Herbalife saga:
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/the-dream-catcher-a-herbalife-guru-and-his-regime-of-sexual-control-and-humiliation.premium-1.522661
Much more to the point on Herbalife than the Vanity Fair piece.
Note at the end of the article Herbalife uses Plausible Deniablity (they ❤ the Independent Business Owner® business model) to quarantine itself from this nasty mess. Wild story.
  +2
[Reply]

2+2=4 Reply:
May 16th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
@2+2=4, article also available here, without registering:
http://mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.com/2013/05/herbalife-exposed-as-cult-in-israel.html?m=0
  +3
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
May 16th, 2013 at 11:21 pm
@2+2=4,
This article reminds me about a different MLM currently being discussed where a promoter of said scam says in his video that your rippls will go global.
Herbalife. The scam heard round the world.
(Yes, I know it’s not the first. Any MLM scam that doesn’t quickly die off must necessarily reach out to the rest of the world at some point so as to stay alive. I’m just trying for dramatic effect.)
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +1
[Reply]

2+2=4 Reply:
May 17th, 2013 at 8:19 am
@Wyrd, The rippl story is new to me. Amazing. Since it’s a completely Internet based scam, I guess going international would be even easier?
It is fascinating to be able to hear and see these people telling their bald faced lies on the embedded clips in some of these articles…”the banality of evil”…
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
May 17th, 2013 at 5:04 pm
@2+2=4 ::
Wow … that’s some story.
[Reply]

2+2=4 Reply:
May 18th, 2013 at 7:40 pm
@SD,
And all Herbalife has to say is: “The distributors of Herbalife are self-employed businesspeople and are not employed by the company. We teach and promote activity at the ethical level and at the highest level of integrity of business management. The company operates according to clear rules of consumer protection. These rules include a policy of unconditional return of products within 30 days of their purchase date. In addition, the distributors themselves are entitled to a policy of returning goods within 12 months of their purchase.
“If anyone has an issue to take up with someone, he is invited to make this known to the company, and we will do our best to provide an appropriate response to his needs.”
Wow I’m so impressed Not.
For one thing, they do not teach ethics or integrity. For another thing, according to what I’ve read, returns are not really that staightforward. But these lies are all beside the point.
The main problem is….
Given the extremely serious allegations made in this article, don’t you think a response from an ethical company would be more along the lines of…we’re going to look into this guy and see what the hell is going on? Or something???
Nope. All we get is plausible deniability while HLF rakes in their profits.
  +2
[Reply]
# 16 May 2013 at 1:52 pm

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