Halfway Harmonic Destitution


James Arthur Ray :: aka inmate 267823 :: used to have a house in Beverly Hills … 90210. He paid an eye-popping $4 million for it :: although at the time he could afford it because Oprah said he knew The Secret … so he was totally rolling in other people’s money.

But times change :: people get killed … you know how it goes. Suddenly money to pay for an overly expensive legal team seems more important than money to pay for an overly expensive home which houses a starkly empty life.

Death Ray listed his Beverly Hills home for $5.5 million the month after the deaths in Sedona :: it {short} sold two years later for $3 million … yet another harmonic epic fail. James Ray can control the universe with his mind :: but apparently his mind hates himself … one of the few things his mind and I can agree on.

For the last couple of years :: the citizens of Arizona have been providing Mr. Ray with room and board {and jumpsuits} … free of charge. It should have lasted a lifetime :: or at least through a full Hobbit trilogy … but it didn’t.

Now that his saggy guru ass is only a few months from semi-freedom :: it seems the comeback plans have begun. He’s starting small of course :: with destitution … and then maybe he’ll work his way back up to Harmonic {I stole your} Wealth™.


I am hesitant to send this e-mail; however I just got off of the the phone with James and time is becoming critical. As I am sure most of you know, James is due to be released on July 12th and as a condition of his parole, must stay in Arizona for 110 days following his release. I have been consistently reaching out to James’ friends in an effort to find him some type of lodging for his short stay in Arizona. Unfortunately, any lodging must be approved by his parole officer prior to his release, and he has been told that renting an apartment, or staying in a hotel will most likely NOT be acceptable to the state of Arizona. That being said… we are desperately looking for some type of spare room in someone’s home, or an empty home that he could use for his short time on parole.

As I am sure all of you assume… this unfortunate situation has left James financially destitute, so we would not be able to pay much for either type of above lodging. The additional caveat would be that if it was an empty home, we would need to also find bare minimums on furniture (bed, couch, etc) that he would have access to.

The alternative to us NOT being able to find him lodging, would be that he would have to stay in a “group home” (or halfway house) with other recently released prisoners. Although we all hope that newly released prisoners come into society with the intentions of leading a reformed life, the reality is that these halfway homes tend to be full of drugs, theft, and violence. James is simply hoping for a place to have solitude, and a location that he can begin to re-acclimate to life as we all know.

Once again… I apologize in sending out this straight to the point e-mail; however, I have simply exhausted my and James’ resources (me being 1200 miles away) and now am counting on the universe to guide someone to the right resource to help us in this desperate situation.

My love and respect to all of you that have already done so much for James. I truly believe each of us has tremendous hearts and want the best for James as his “new life” begins upon his release.

My best to all, and thanks in advance!

Jon C. Ray”

James Arthur Ray needs a couch of solitude :: it’s fucking critical … else his righteous self may be forced to slum it up in some halfway house filled with dirty drug using crooks who have never even been on the Today Show.

I asked Jon C. Ray {who was on the bus with Colleen Conaway the day she died} about this loathsome :: entitled … dripping with irony email that I was never supposed to see. Says he …

The truly sad and disappointing fact, is that anyone that does not believe this unfortunate accident had a devastatingly negative impact on James; his mental status for life; the pain and mental status of his family for life; and many others that he has greatly helped and assisted over the years, simply have an agenda and vendetta to carry the hatred and pain for all as long as they can.

Is that the “truly sad” fact? And here I thought it was the dead people.

Our hearts have gone out to the families of the decedents now for nearly 4-years and will continue to do so for the remainder of our lives. Although my brother still lives in human form, he has died many internal deaths since this unfortunate accident.

How many “internal deaths” does it take to equal one actual death? I’m no expert in death math :: but I’m thinking it takes many more than many.

Life “ended” in different degrees for many in many different ways in October of 09. So my friend, you can be part of the solution or continue the hatred, but please know that you can never truly “hurt” anyone else by spreading negative thoughts, actions, or emotions. The only one your truly hurting is yourself. I would ask you to have the decency to allow the hatred to stop and the healing begin.

Thanks :: but no thanks … hating is kinda my shit.

When is NOW the right time for me to place an unhelpful Craigslist ad?

Just Out of Jail, Need Room

Getting out of prison in July … totally reformed.

Crime was no big deal … only a triple homicide.

Need 110 days lodging in the Arizona area to avoid a dirty halfway house.

Like to be called God. You’ll speak when you’re spoken too.

No fatties.

Furnished rooms preferred.

Can’t pay rent … but was twice on Oprah.

Please find it in your heart to have a heart for someone without a heart.

 >> bleep bloop

119 thoughts on “Halfway Harmonic Destitution”

  1. Why doesn’t Tom Kelly put him up? He’s probably just added a few rooms to his house, after a particularly lucrative trial recently. LOL.

    Oh man, the psychopathic pity party rolls on. A vendetta. What has poor Death Ray done to deserve a vendetta? Having profited from torturing people under false pretenses, killed a few of them and then used their cash to pay for the lawyers is no reason for people to bear a grudge, surely.

    Hey Jon, here’s an idea. James could try getting a job when he gets out, like cleaning or mowing lawns. He could then use the money he earns to pay the rent. Sounds bizarre I know, but it does actually work if you try hard enough.

  2. I dont get it, why isn’t Oprah buying him a bachelor pad? Aren’t they BFFs? Guess you find out who your real friends are after you rob people blind and get them killed…

    You know WHY James doesn’t yet have a place? Because he didn’t want it bad enough in prison, he didn’t visualize it every day. Probably too busy dealing with the visualizations his inmates had of things they wanted to (and did) to him.

      1. @Wyrd,


        That was good.

        Let’s hope our friend Jay connects with the “The Secret” on his way out of prison.

  3. Undoubtedly, Death Ray will find “followers”. Sociopaths are everywhere – like attracts like.
    That pathetic fucktard has an additinal prisonesque education now as well.
    Watch Out!

    1. @Douglas ::

      Not quite.

      Most of his “followers” were quite wonderful people. The pitch isn’t aimed at other sociopaths … it’s aimed at innocents.

  4. That motherfucker is getting out of jail already?! Life is evidently cheap in the great state of finger wagging Jan Brewer and sheriff Joe Arpaio. Why didn’t James end up in one of sheriff Joe’s tent cities?

    So now James and his brother want some dupe in Arizona to furnish Death Ray with a spare room, or better yet, an empty house. But not too empty, James will need “bare minimums on furniture (bed, couch, etc) that he would have access to.” Will he also be needing his injections of human growth hormone and testosterone? What about a few luxury cars? Will a cook be provided for James at this empty house?

    How long until Death Ray is Ripplin?

    1. @Barbara,

      Why didn’t he end up in tent city? Simple, he’s whiter than a Kluxer’s bedsheet.

      No, I’m not cynical or anything, why do you ask?

      1. @poilu, Where did you get the idea Sheriff Joes tent city didn’t include Whites? You must be listening to people who throw around the race card for everything In this case, youre believing the illegal Mexican criminals who hate Joe because he stands up to them so their violent crimes dont take over. Tent City is a jail. All races are housed there.

    2. @Barbara, if only he’d committed his crimes in Maricopa County instead Yavapai County, but still, what Poilu says probably applies.

      1. @Anna,

        D’oh! I think of Sheriff Joe Arpaio as ridin’ and rulin’ all of the Arizona range not just his county. But I guess he has his limits, although reading the news out of Arizona it doesn’t seem like it.

        And I liked the idea of James Ray in pink underwear.

  5. I think I found him a place. It’s in Scottsdale Arizona at 29005 North 82nd Street. The purchase price was nearly $1.7 million so it ought to be up to Death Ray’s exacting standards. It was recently purchased by Sarah Palin.

    I can’t think of two people who deserve each other more.

    1. @Barbara,

      Palins crime is exactly what? I just want to know why you would think letting her innocent children face the possibility of a white…I mean left wing sociopath to do something

      I’m sure you wouldn’t publish the address of a liberal would you?

      I love the way you assume one side is right and the other wrong when they share the same side

      but hey enjoy your bias…this is America

      All hail Obama

      1. @Shit Storm,

        I’d happily publish the address of a liberal, do you know any?

        You don’t need to worry about Sarah’s minor children. Piper and Trigg live in Alaska at the family compound, looked after by Ted and Sally Heath, (Sarah’s parents)and a couple of women who have long worked for the Palin family.

        And I’d match Sarah’s sociopathy against Ray’s any day of the week.

    2. @Barbara actually said:

      “I can’t think of two people who deserve each other more.”

      Are you SERIOUS?!

      I’m a looooong time reader, supporter, and commenter here, going back to day 1, well before you dropped your very first comment. And I have to say:

      Your comment above is just plain disturbing! What happened to you?

      You are suggesting that Sarah Palin and her family “deserve” to be shoved together with a cold hearted killer? Because you don’t “like” her?

      Seriously?! You have jumped the shark, Barbara.

      That line of thinking – and expressing it in such icy fashion – is just wrong. Shame on you, and shame on anyone who gave you a “thumbs up” for saying such a thing.

      You don’t avenge the evil deeds of someone like James Ray by being as cold and callous as he is. I am surprised at you.

      1. @Are You SERIOUS Barbara?,

        Damn straight I’m serious.

        Let’s look at Sarah Palin’s “careers”, shall we?

        As mayor of small town Wasilla she ran on a platform of anti-abortion issues, she had nothing to say on local issues.

        When elected mayor she immediately dismissed all department heads, including the police chief who had supported her. She asked Wasilla librarian Mary Ellen Baker how she could go about banning books. When Baker refused to comply Palin fired her too, but she was later reinstated. She then said that rape victims in Wasilla would have to pay for their own rape kits to be used and processed. Can’t afford it? Tough shit. She cut money for a children’s shelter caring for physically and sexually abused children, animal control services for the wandering bear problems, which are no joke in Alaska, and cut by 90% money for neighborhood watch programs and a program to combat meth use which was epidemic in Wasilla.

        At the same time she spent $1.5 million on an eminent domain land grab for the property where a sports facility was later built. But she began construction before gaining legal title to the land which is why this piece of land cost the taxpayers one and a half million dollars, the estimated value was less than a fifth of what was paid. She spent $4,000 leasing an SUV for her to drive to work, all other mayors before her and since used their own vehicles. During her 6 years as mayor she increased general government expenditures by over 33%, despite claiming to be a fiscal conservative. She raised taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food.

        Sarah Palin inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million.

        Let’s talk about her behavior as a national candidate. I won’t discuss her poor performance in interviews with the “lamestream” media but instead her attempts to incite violence against then candidate Obama. During a rally in Florida near the end of that campaign Sarah Palin told the audience that Barack Obama “palled around with terrorists” and added that she was “just so fearful” and a man in the crowd yelled out “Kill him”! Palin smiled in response but said nothing. This coincided with a spike in death threats against Obama.

        This leads directly to the “hit list” Palin published, complete with gun targets placed over the names, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona.

        And this leads to the events of January 8, 2011. Rep. Giffords and eighteen other people were shot that day. Six died. The dead included a nine year old girl. Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said those who use violent rhetoric to incite their followers are responsible for the violent outcome in Tucson today. And the chief spewer of the vitriol? Sarah Palin.

        So, summing up, James Ray killed four, Sarah Palin was responsible for six murders.

        So I guess since Ray and his brother don’t want him to associate with criminals bunkind down with Sarah wouldn’t be such a good idea.

      2. @Are You SERIOUS Barbara?,

        Oh, and by the way, Hi B—–. Why didn’t you use your real name?

        (and it was supposed to read “bunking” down with Sarah)

        And as for “I’m a looooong time reader, supporter, and commenter here, going back to day 1, well before you dropped your very first comment” I don’t give a flying fuck how long you’ve commented here.

        If there is one thing that irritates me about blog readers here it’s this bullshit about how long they’ve commented, unlike Daily Kos there are no user I.D. numbers, which I’m sure some of you wish there were, I had enough shit from some of you after the Dumford debacle and the professional atheist defenders.

        1. @Barbara,

          So your argument is that Palin is a bad politician you need to rid from this world by giving out a home address in the hope someone more wacko than you will use that address and kill her

          Oh and fuck her children…because you know EXACTLY where they will be at all times

          nothing insane about that

          You can come down off the cross – we need the wood

          Will you be calling for the assassination of anyone else?

          Tell me again how your sycophantic behavior DIFFERS from Death Ray?

        2. @Barbara,

          Maybe we can have Palin put Death Ray on a list of some kind because by your toady logic that will get him whacked

          Seeing Palin has 6 deaths by mind meld already on her record whats 1 more going to hurt.

          Do you wear the tin foil hat all the time when watching TV or just when you watch Fox?

          All Hail Obama

      3. @Are You SERIOUS Barbara?, Hahaha – This place is full of calling outs and threats all the time but suddenly it’s wrong? Why should Sarah Palin be treated any differently from all the other snake oil salesmen that get dragged up on the carpet here?

        Funny how it’s fine to try to ruin people until it’s someone you like…

  6. The Death Ray is being released and the brother is asking for the mercy. We knew this day would come.

    Death Ray was actually created by his followers. The people who bought his lies and his books and seminars and bullshit. It’s the same for every fraudulent stain on the planet who claims to be the messiah. He wouldn’t have been taken to the heights without the peeps who bought it. Let’s understand, a guru of none is not a guru except in the bathroom mirror. A guru of lots of people is the deal.

    And then people can die.

    So, despite their victimization, what are his followers doing about this travesty? Where are the people who were so hurt by him? Are they primed and ready to speak out against him? Keep him from selling his toxic and fraudulent garbage? Keep him from further victimizing people because that’s all this useless sack knows?

    My wife, Kristina Bivins, has spoken out. She is ashamed of her support of him. She has a blog and admits her complicity, despite her own deep shame around supporting him. I’m not promoting her. I don’t care if anyone reads her stuff. It’s not about her. It is about fucking justice and courage and getting real. Do the people who supported him, were raped by him, want this shit to continue?

    Apparently people are so invested in protecting themselves that they don’t care. I’m serious here. They were victimized, no question. Manipulated, absolutely. But they created him. And they can stop him, if they aren’t too inconvenienced, or too ashamed, or too much in denial. Who are they waiting on? Someone else I guess. And there is no one else. But them.

    It’s time for people to stand up and be responsible. All followers, of anyone, anywhere, who are frauds. No one else is coming. They’ll do it again. You aren’t safe. Speak and be visible on this. You are the authority.

    Rant over.

    1. @Jeffrey Hammond,

      I have to disagree with some of that. What did it take for your partner to change her mind? She went much further than many in defending him, being quoted in newspapers along with Luis Li, while also having a financial interest in his success. All the more praiseworthy that she publicly retracted it, acknowledged the error and set about trying to correct it.

      Many of those who you seem to be criticizing didn’t go anywhere near as far in defending Ray, that seems a bit of an unfair comparison.

      Furthermore, a look at the police docs shows about a hundred or so former customers who cooperated with prosecutors. Dozens appeared in court on live TV & internet, where they were exposed to public ridicule for having believed Ray. I understand there was considerable pressure put on those directly involved not to cooperate with the investigators, yet they fought against that. And I understand that Ray simply lied to many who asked him face to face about what really happened. Yet some of those have also spoken out.

      So I’d like you to be a bit more specific. How about condemning those who are still actively supporting him? Names & shame (with evidence) is in order here, I think.

      Also, human nature is such that hucksters like Ray will always find followers. For me the most important thing is to make sure that his next potential victims get to hear about what he did, and understand how he operates and what he is. If they hear it and then decide to trust him anyway, then there’s not much anyone can do.

      And also, Ray was a product of the entirely corrupt system of ideas and practices commonly referred to as New Age spirituality. He wasn’t a bad apple amongst a whole lot of good ones. There are no good ones. The entire system is set up for maximum exploitation with (as Ray proved) a total absence of consumer protection of any kind. It is impossible for a teacher to succeed in that culture without them being utterly and absolutely corrupt and ruthless. Speaking out against Death Ray is easy these days, but that system has continued functioning without missing a beat.

    2. @Jeffrey Hammond,

      What I remember about your wife is this:

      “Even after the deadly debacle in Sedona, Bivins said she still believed in Ray’s hybrid teachings, to the point she helped him develop strategies she believed were intended to compensate victims at least to some degree, as well as to help Ray get back on his feet financially. She appeared in print stories and on television on Ray’s behalf.”


      As I understand the facts the deaths of the people at the sweat lodge did not shake your wife’s belief in Ray, it came down to a dispute over money.

      Your attitude seems perilously close to blaming the victims in this case. Many of them did speak out against Ray, did you watch the trial? And they spoke out while your wife was still appearing on television enthusiastically promoting and defending James Ray.

      1. @Barbara,

        In fairness to Jeffrey Hammond, he may have decided not to include a link to Ms Bivins’ retraction for fear of appearing too partisan. It’s certainly understandable that you would not have picked up that information, and rather illustrates my point earlier that the initial damage is rather hard to reverse.

        I also agree, of course, with your concerns about blaming the victims.

        I was extremely happy to learn of Ms Bivins’ retraction of support. Better late than never, and I am sure it took a degree of humility unusual in such circles. But I think it is also worth noting that, as I remember it, she had a financial interest in supporting Ray, which she didn’t declare at the time.

        I hope that she has also distanced herself from that kind of practice.

      2. @Barbara & Yakaru ::

        I don’t think Kristina coming around was much to do with the money. And it’s good to remember that when she was making that defense of Ray :: her head was shaved :: her brain was baked :: and she had been exposed to years and years of conditioning … along with having been exploited for a truly staggering amount of money.

        Also :: I’m not sure how much harm it actually did. It made Jason cry :: and think to himself … “holy fuck! this is much worse than I thought.” That horror was the reality of the situation … so there’s a way in which that was one of the truest :: most revealing :: moments we witnessed.

        Although :: I’m not really comfortable calling for more victims to step up when …

        and Jon

        … have yet to do anything but obfuscate.

      3. @Barbara, Oh deary me. I wrote that post and I don’t think it was that simple. It came down to money in that a money dispute was apparently the final straw. Money was the final straw for a lot of Ray’s followers because he manipulated so many people out of so much of it. If anything, I think it speaks well of Ms. Bivens that it wasn’t what she personally suffered but the theft from other people that snapped her out of it. And then she took her own hard-earned money to try to make it right — all of which is explained in my post. Extricating yourself from an entanglement with someone like James Ray isn’t easy and everyone does it at their own pace in their own time — if they ever do. Ray is a skilled manipulator and cons people less by catering to their greed than by tapping into their highest aspirations. From a shamanic perspective, he’s also stealing their power and their soul parts which is a very good way to make people dependent on you. Ray’s followers, even many who are still in his thrall, are good people who’ve been badly used by ruthless con man. It may be frustrating to watch but it should be a call to compassion, not judgment.

  7. I take your comments respectfully and I don’t wish to rebut anything word for word. The information you have about Kristina is wrong, but as I said I’m not here to make it about her. It’s beyond anything personal.

    From my vantage point I see that most of his former followers just want it all to go away, and I definitely have an inside view of that. I am not blaming them for being victims. I am saying that their individual support did create him, as followers create all gurus, and their voices would be the most valuable if they were heard.

    The people who testified in the trial were subpoenaed to do so, but even so, none of them have spoken out after the trial, which if anyone watched was heavily controlled by Ray’s defense team. We don’t know what most of them really think outside of the trial. Who would be the most listened to? Who would be the most credible? If someone was truly victimized, truly damaged by someone, and that someone will be out of prison years too soon, do you turn a blind eye or do you speak out?

    That’s my point. We all have to ask ourselves that. And what I see, in that world, is “make it go away.”

    It won’t, though. It’s coming back soon.

    1. @Jeffrey Hammond ::

      We’re pretty good at protecting the victims here :: even when I’m not around … which is one of the reasons this is the best fucking site on the webs!

      But … I take your point.

      There are still too many secrets yet to be told … still too many people who think if they just plug their nose and close their eyes it will all go away. But it won’t.

      A big part of that problem is the MLM theme that ran throughout JRI. 15% {or more} of JRI’s victims are hoping to themselves become the next predator.

    2. @Jeffrey Hammond,

      Personally, I find your attitude quite strange.

      I for one have been impressed with the number of former customers who have spoken out. As I say, they open themselves to public ridicule. And “speaking out” can take many forms and requires some strategic planning for it to be effective and not backfire. It’s not as simple as you seem to imagine. You will have noticed, for example, that your wife’s recantation was not effective enough to be widely known even on this site. I doubt very much that she has reached a fraction of a percent of the people who read her previous spirited defense of Ray. It’s her choice how responsible she feels for it, and I stress that I’m not criticizing her. It was you who (repeatedly) brought it up. But fact is that there is still a lot to be done to redress whatever damage she caused.

      BTW, has she apologized to the Native American community for implying Ray was serving their culture?

      Personally, I think you’ve got quite a hide criticizing others here, after what your wife initially did. Did you criticize her publicly for doing that at the time? Sorry, but what you’re doing here looks a lot like attention-seeking to me. Whatever it is, I find it quite unwarranted and ill-directed.

      I think you should stop it and start criticizing Ray instead.

      1. @Yalaru, this is the difference between being a commenter who takes everything personally, like you, vastly removed from the actual events, and someone who actually has seen the damage this monster has done to many people. You know, like, face to face?

        Simple as I imagine? No, I think it’s you that don’t understand what it takes. Or what’s at stake.

        Nobody owes anyone an apology except the monster himself. And nobody owes you a damn thing, although you seem to be some sort of self-appointed judge of us all. The reason I did not criticize Kristina publicly would be the same reason you accuse me of: attention seeking. That would be you. I don’t care what people knew or didn’t know. I don’t want anyone’s attention personally, I want to hear more voices speak out, credible voices, because a monster will be loose shortly, free to victimize again. You wouldn’t understand how that affects people personally. It’s not about me, about Kristina, or especially you. It’s about doing what’s in the highest for people, people who were and who are still being victimized. You wouldn’t know about that either I suppose. You just read it in the papers.

        No one can change the effects of the sweatlodge. Or Colleen Conaway’s tragic heartbreaking death. No one can change anything in the past. Only you are still holding onto things people did or said for judgement’s sake. And that’s less than fucking useless. It all happened. All we have is now. Right now.

        Anyone can criticize Ray. That’s easy, just look at you. What’s hard is getting involved. And that really wouldn’t be you either, would it?

        1. @Jeffrey Hammond ::

          Yeah but … @Yakaru has been infinitely useful right from the start.

          People on the outside of these situations stepping up to call out the badguys is just as important people on the inside. And it’s just as sorely lacking.

          You guys are on the same team :: for sure.

          1. @SD, Understood. Peace to you and Yakaru, and thanks to him for all he has done. Cheers.

        2. @Jeffrey Hammond,

          Hi. I’ve only been reading saltydroid since mid 2011 (I think it was 2011–I’m not wanting to do the effort to verify right now). So please feel free to ignore me if you wish.

          I agree with what I think you’re trying to say: i.e. that people shouldn’t do the ostrich thing–bury their heads in the sand and just try to pretend it never happened.

          I agree with that. But I pedantically disagree with a very minor point of your phrasing. You write somewhere that “Death Ray was actually created by his followers”

          IMHO, James Arthur Ray was not created by–maybe enabled by, enhanced by or grown from a tiny start into a scary monster by his followers sure–but not truly created. The nascent seed of pure evil that makes Death Ray possible was already there. I mean–all power corrupts, sure–but at age 37 I’ve come to understand that you’re not going to get anywhere near the level of fuck-up-ness that there was with James Ray if you take just some ordinary person and drop them into the guru role.

          But this actually supports your point more strongly: James Ray used to be this diabolical evil. In some ways, much more evil than your common street thug because with some random thug person the danger is obvious. With a cult leader dude, for anyone that doesn’t already know how cults work, the danger is completely hidden.

          And now James is back. Just a shadow of his former self, but given his basic nature he will be forever trying to regain as much of his former power as he can.

          And this is why speaking out is critical. Because there’s always a new batch of persons who are either naive or who are totally seasoned and experienced but just happen to be at a highly vulnerable point in their life right now (e.g. just lost job, just lost loved one, just lost house, just lost all three in natural disaster, etc). When people talk about scammers and victims they usually refer to the victim as the “sucker”. They shouldn’t do that. I think one reason why they do that is so they don’t have to look at how ugly the situation truly is. One person shamelessly and very non-consensually exploiting another person for no reason except the selfish acquisition of additional money/power.

          It happens all too often. And even in 2013, all too often, society turns a blind eye to it.

          It has to change.

          Furry cows moo and decompress.

          1. @Wyrd, @Jeffrey Hammond

            I have only been reading this blog since yesterday!….so you can totally take what I say with two pounds of Morton Salt…but I have been interested in related topics for the last year…

            I just wanted to say that this discussion re gurus and followers reminds me of an article by social psychologist Philip Zimbardo (Stanford Prison Experiment) written after the Heaven’s Gate suicides in 1997:


            Bits from the article:

            ‘How do we make sense of the mass suicide of 21 female and 18 male members of the Heaven’s Gate extra-terrestrial “cult” on March 23? Typical explanations of all such strange, unexpected behavior involve a “rush to the dispositional,” locating the problem in defective personalities of the actors. Those whose behavior violates our expectations about what is normal and appropriate are dismissed as kooks, weirdos, gullible, stupid, evil or masochistic deviants.

            Avoiding the stereotypes
            Such pseudo-explanations are really moralistic judgments; framed with the wisdom of hindsight, they miss the mark. They start at the wrong end of the inquiry. Instead, our search for meaning should begin at the beginning: “What was so appealing about this group that so many people were recruited/seduced into joining it voluntarily?” We want to know also, “What needs was this group fulfilling that were not being met by “traditional society?”…

            …No one ever joins a “cult.” People join interesting groups that promise to fulfill their pressing needs. They become “cults” when they are seen as deceptive, defective, dangerous, or as opposing basic values of their society.’

            The article is articulate about why blaming the victim misses the point. Missing the point keeps us from making any progress against organizations/individuals who seek to coercively control.

            Zimbardo also has something going in the SF Bay Area called the Heroic Imagination Project, mainly focused on schools/students, I think. I don’t know if it has any chance of having any kind of impact. Might touch a few people though. The basic idea is to teach people to understand the power of negative social influence and to counteract that with positive social influence….in other words, individuals speaking up when they see BS in their social sphere.

            I am happy when I see anyone speaking up in this general area of scamming, coercive control…it is insidious, flys under the radar of most people, and reinvents itself all the time in new guises. Nutrilite, Amway, Moonies, Scientology, Fortune Hi Tech Marketing, The Secret, rippln…etc etc etc

            1. @, oh, forgot to post my screen name…the above comment is by me!

              And, also, I am not disagreeing with what anybody has said….lest there be any confusion….I think we are all on the same page here…

            2. Good points.

              Looking at this subject from a Social Psychology point of view is essential. It can’t be understood otherwise.

              The comments around James Ray have been mostly about legalities and bullshit teachings but it’s really sad that lawyers, victims, observers and even many scam experts don’t know what causes people to follow these maniacs.

              Knowledge is the most important tool we can have to fight this kind of abuse. We can’t remain lacking in it.

          2. @Wyrd, Thanks for you comment and I will agree with your disagreement, it’s more accurate to say that Ray was enabled. He was as fraudulent and creepy and pathological before he assumed the God Mantle, but slavish devotion from any followers can give someone like him some kind of permission [in his own mind] to push them to what they agreed to do.

            I only make the point about their agreement for his followers (and victims) own sake really. We have to take some responsibility some time, even or especially for our worst decisions, just to move on and reclaim our lives. This doesn’t excuse one thing he did, or anything anybody does to us. This doesn’t mean we like it in anyway or have to. I know these people and I want the best for them – I see how denying that they did choose him and followed him causes them suffering. Real suffering. Acceptance of their choices can help to heal this. It does not absolve him of one thing he did or make them guilty of anything either, which his defense team maintained throughout the trial. He is guilty and has been convicted. He needs to rot behind bars for 30 years, if we had a perfect world.

            But I want to deal with the truth. He will be out soon. And my overall point is exactly what you also put better than me: “And this is why speaking out is critical. Because there’s always a new batch of persons who are either naive or who are totally seasoned and experienced but just happen to be at a highly vulnerable point in their life right now”

            I think I can guarantee that this will happen – or at least I am dead certain of it. And so I would indeed so like to hear more voices to help the next batch if possible, to be honest about what they chose. To show others how and why these choices are made. To speak up about how destructive following gurus blindly can be. I can’t think of anyone with more credibility. Can you?

  8. All of the guru’s have this one thing in common:

    Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder[1] in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity. This condition affects one percent of the population.[2][3] First formulated in 1968, it was historically called megalomania, and is severe egocentrism.

    The current formulation of Narcissistic personality disorder in the diagnostic manual DSM-IV has been criticised for failing to describe the range and complexity of the disorder; it focuses overly on “the narcissistic individual’s external, symptomatic, or social interpersonal patterns–at the expense of his or her internal complexity and individual suffering” which has reduced its clinical utility.

    The Secret fed this disorder and these guys thought they were gods.. Like movie stars to a pathetic group of “groupies”

    Nothing has changed for Mr. Ray as he is “too good” for a halfway house, as if those people in the halfway house were any worse than him. He still thinks he is better than other people, even from prison.

    Here is the article where Bob Proctor came out in support of James Ray

  9. Hey good people! I had an intuition to check out your blog SD, and lo and behold, a post about the monster James Ray. How time flies! Hey Jon Ray, I apologize for this straight to the point post on Salty Droid’s blog but since your brother has to stay in Arizona,I know someone who might have an extra tent.


  10. Let’s not forget the role that NLP (neuro linguistic programming) played in JAR’s scam and brainwashing.

    If you want to see how powerful NLP can be, Google “derren brown nlp youtube”. You’ll see a whole bunch of short videos about this Brit who uses it to demonstrate its power – it will totally freak you out, if you’re like me. And just think about how this power can be used by someone with ill intentions and/or greed.

    JAR was an expert at NLP.

    Now, would that change your opinion about these people “choosing” to be in his circle and give him boatloads of their money?

    1. @JT 1965, Very good point, thank you! The fact that Judge Darrow COMPLETELY overlooked the effects of NLP and heatstroke during his sentencing speech just blew my mind. So infuriating!

    2. @JT 1965,

      Is there a scientific study that proves how “effective” NLP is.
      I have not been able to find a study done anywhere in any country by any reliable institution that prove the claims.

      This was a pseudoscience used in the 70’s and the only use it has today is for sports, coaching a team ,and public speaking.. a way to help people who are nervous public speakers maybe.

      This NLP is some vomit that Tony Robbins try on people.
      Does Robbins have some hidden talent? ewww

      1. @Phoebe,

        NLP is poorly defined and mostly bullshit in terms of evoking complicated healing responses. But it’s quite efffective for short term swindling. And any linguistic trick that works immediately gets labeled NLP.Here’s an interesting article–

        Authority is the most effective persuader, in my opinion, because submissive behavior is a part of our psychological nature, and in most cases in daily life, it works fine to submit to a proper authority.

        What Ray was doing was running two events simultaneously. One, which was th covert program where people tried to push their limits etc., and the other was a parallel program where he was covertly and systematically dismantling their defenses and installing himself as an authority figure.

        Of course another essential element in Ray’s tactics was straight up unsophisticated lying. The man is simply a common criminal.

  11. I was wondering what Truc Do of Munger Tolles & Olson law firm is up to these days. I wonder if while speaking in court she still likes to end every sentence with the word “Krect?”

    Her current profile includes this:

    “Most recently, Ms. Do defended James Arthur Ray, a New York Times bestselling author and motivational speaker, against charges of reckless manslaughter arising out of three deaths that occurred during a sweat lodge ceremony. After a four-month trial in Yavapai County, the jury acquitted the client of all charged offenses. Conviction of the lesser offense of negligent homicide is on appeal. The trial was nationally televised and featured in reports.”

    James Ray deserved his bestselling author status almost as much as Frederick R. Ewing, author of “I, Libertine”.

    1. @Barbara, Hi! How’s it going? Barbara, Yakaru, Jean, Droid, you guys are rockstars! Thank you so much for holding down the fort while I took a much needed break.

      1. @Bryan Neuman,

        Well, I took a break myself so all the credit belongs to the others. But I just cannot believe he’s getting out already.

        I don’t believe James Ray took one minute, much less an hour or a day, to reflect on the enormous pain he left in his wake. I think he’s still in the mindset that he was in that terrible day, just emotionally divorced from the anguish all around him, thinking only of himself. Scheming about how he could get out of this mess he had created, blaming it on the resort staff, his own staff and most horrifying of all, blaming the dead.

        I don’t believe he has any remorse for what he has done.

    2. @Barbara, I came across that information about Truc Do and I was shocked that they even mentioned her defending him. They make is sound like poor Jimmy had a wonderful defense team. If I had been the legal firm she belonged to, I would have left out that trial altogether. Oh well, what can you expect from Hollyweird?

      One thing Truc Do did for me was extract the best quote I have ever heard…it was that doctor (sorry I don’t remember his name) who responded to her trying to push him into a corner with her “hypothetically…this and that” crap. He said, “Hypothetically pigs can fly but you won’t get me to agree to that.” I don’t think we saw her after that. He was so polite too when he said it…calm, cool, collected…great guy, great quote.

  12. I must have missed the part where James Ray’s heart went out to the families at all over the last 4 years… Oh and only apologizing in front of a judge on sentencing day DOESN’T FUCKING COUNT!!!

  13. The best way he can “reform” is to be homeless and without anyone to help.

    Become humble, and apologize for real to the people, who has ever heard your him speak. ( that is a start )

    He hasn’t suffered being fed everyday and given a bed to sleep in prison.

    I personally think the guy is a psycho and a danger to society. I would not be surprised if he one day has a “church”.

    1. @Phoebe,

      Well he already knows how to “survive and thrive” if he’s homeless. Well at least, survive and thrive and get your brother to beg for you and plead for pity.

      1. @Yakaru,

        hey if this can guy create wealth, why is he looking for someone to give up their property for a moment? lmao

        I do not know how people like this can live with themselves.

        You have the “secret” and need a nice clean furnished section 8 place … BOOOOOOOOO

    1. @Mother Kilstein,

      Currently Oprah has her hands full with this:

      NEW YORK (Reuters) – Oprah Winfrey will have to defend in court her use of the phrase “Own Your Power” in her magazine and on her website, a U.S. appeals court said on Friday.

      Overturning a lower court ruling, the 2nd Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals revived claims brought by Simone Kelly-Brown, owner of a motivational services business, Own Your Power Communications Inc, who says she owns a trademark on the phrase.

  14. I feel immensely sad for JR’s victims families. How does a few years equate to a lifetime and if he had the remotest of respect for them he would remove himself from that goddam pathetic path of selfish help and get a real job where he served real people. Don’t ever give up for the sake of the families of the poor souls who lost their lives on JAMES ARTHUR RAYS watch, please, I beg you all.

    That also goes for the groupies in the selfish help industry which were mostly thrust into the limelight by the humongous big secret that the world has come to realise is a freaking fake.

    Because I know James Ray will be reading each and every one of these posts because he is beyond real and cant helpeth himself ………………… You are not forgiven JR, and you will never be forgotten so be prepared to what hate becomes you when you claim your so called freedom.


    1. @colleens brother in law,

      I know the depth of pain felt by Colleen’s family must be heartbreaking. The story of Colleen’s death did not get the headlines that the victims of James Ray’s sweat lodge did but the circumstances of her death somehow seemed even more tragic to me. Maybe it’s because Colleen was alone, no one knows what tremendous fear and anguish she felt at the end of her life, but one thing is certain. James Ray was responsible for her death.

      I’m so sorry for the pain all of you are enduring.

      1. @Barbara, THANK YOU ALL, for your prayers and thoughts for our family…..just an update for all…..lynn, her mom and dad, and her sister are in san diego as we speak….doing depositions with james fucking rays lawyers…..please pray for them to have the strength to get through this, so they can finally get some closure…..THERE WILL NEVER BE JUSTICE, BUT CLOSURE WOULD BE A NICE PLACE TO START…..

    2. @colleens brother in law,
      So sorry for you and your family man.
      I wish you all peace. It’s only a little prayer from a stranger, but there are a lot of us who feel for you. I hope it makes some small difference.

  16. Hmm, Google ‘Salty Droid’ and the real SD is at the top, followed by all the crooks, swindlers and spivs reputation managing the hon. SD in a wholly negative direction. Irony!

  17. Wait…so with all the people he has helped, he is unable to find a place to stay? And both he and his brother have “exhausted” their networks? What does that tell you?

    And if Death Ray ends up having to stay in a half-way house, what is “the universe” telling him? What does it say about his ability to “manifest” what he needs?

    Besides, what’s wring with a half-way house? Aren’t the people there the ones that truly need help and to learn “the secret” so they can better their lives? It could be a sort of mission’s trip for JAR. He just has to look at it the right way because that is what he was telling people about their circumstances.

    I have a feeling the people in the half-way house already know the secret. JAR is a punk and deserves to be punked. Repeatedly. And that is exactly what he is afraid of.

  18. JR evidently is not and will never be reformed. If he thinks he is above a half-way house then he hasnt even remotely got close to being reformed. What a selfish greedy narcissistic idiot and total waste of space. Oh but doesn’t it give everyone some juicy fodder to continue with. The Secret pffft, if he continues with that crap that will be the end of it forever so everyone else out of the Secret left peddling that crap should be shaking in their boots if JR thinks he’ll continue on that line. They made their beds now JR is ruffling the sheets so they can lie in them, douchebags. Some of them have gone veeeeeery quiet, deathly quiet, so quiet in fact that they don’t even look like they exist as if they manifest a big black hole.

  19. The thing I don’t really get….well, I guess I do…is that he wants to come out and redeem himself….

    he says that the deaths of those he’s responsible for have “hurt him” and have affected him forever…there’s really no way for me or anyone to know what he feels…but a few things stick out….

    1) When he was sentenced to an extremely favorable sentence his first inclination was to appeal it….I mean for *$@!’s sake….does this even add up to feeling hurt? even if you believed you weren’t responsible…take the gift and STFU. His attitude towards this turned me completely off about anything else he could ever produce, write or etc. Empathy? Not!

    2) Asking for someone to put him up while he gets acclimated to regular life might seem reasonable…yet, given the circumstances, I think it only shows his ability to prey on other people’s emotions…The sob story about the “kind of people there” Well, tell me, is it better than being behind bars or 6 feet under??? Again, pay your due and STFU….all this leads me to one thing that still seems to be what JAR is all about

    3) Entitlement – If followers can not see that by way of his actions, I do not think they ever will and it seems (sadly) that he will be out peddling again…

    It is true…some people never learn…

  20. Let’s never forget that James Ray and his buddies are all raging LIBERALS. That includes the woman who made him rich, Oprah.

    Maybe his JV partner buddy up in Sedona, Hale Dwoskin, should take him since that’s where his crimes occurred. Maybe they can go out, release on it, and do some kind of Indian pow-wow BS to cleanse themselves of the bad karma so that abundance can be welcomed back into their lives.

    But get it right. He’s liberal trash and his friends are liberal trash and anyone on the liberal bandwagon is one in the same.

    1. @Professor Z,

      So you think James Arthur Ray is a “raging LIBERAL”? And you imply that liberals are what’s wrong with the country?

      I just hope you’re not like this guy:

      “I’d like to encourage other like-minded people to do what I’ve done,” [he] wrote. “If life ain’t worth living anymore, don’t just kill yourself. Do something for your country before you go. Go kill liberals.”

      He will spend the rest of his life behind bars for killing Greg McKendry, 60, and Linda Lee Kraeger, 61, after opening fire with a sawed-off shotgun inside the church where more than 200 people were gathered to watch a children’s musical. He admitted wounding six others.

      In his manifesto, [the shooter] deemed his rampage part “political protest” and part “symbolic killing.”

      “This was a hate crime,” he wrote. “Liberals are a pest like termites, millions of them … the only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is kill them in the streets, kill them where they gather.”


      Shooting your neighbor because of differences in ideology is not civil. I don’t think it’s WWJD approved.

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

      1. @Wyrd, yo nut job. Did I say anything about killing people? Or is this your inner drama queen rearing it’s ugly head?

        Now I do have one good idea.

        Liberals like to be able to kill the unborn in the interest of their own selfish sex urges (which is understandable since you’re a bunch of uncooth animals looking for a tit to suckle).

        And although there is no proof of a gay gene if there were then we could test for that in the unborn and eradicate that plague.

        Yeah funny how you make something up, pass judgement on what you made up and then protest that someone might want to take out the trash.

        1. @Professor Z, straight people make gays lmao
          1. Marriage.. awww
          2. Baby sooner or later
          3. Teething and school and pimples eventually
          4. ohoh I wanna kiss my best buddy… and she/he likes me too
          5. Love letters and giggling
          6. Big bad Z comes along with his bottle of hatorade.
          7. slurs come out from the znut
          8. he tries to kill some gays
          9. he is having flashbacks of the time he was young and daydreaming about touching another males penis
          10. starts screaming again and twitching like a BITCH…

          See zcunt… you are the problem. You do not need to speak on a topic about Death Ray… you are worse. People like you are a disease. Gay is not and doesn’t need to be treated.

          There are so many people like u who hate gays and yet yourself fighting with it internally or have someone close to you who is homosexual.

  21. Professor Z,

    You are a bad example of a conservative.

    Although I agree with you on some points, notably your example of abortion, and that it is big business in the name of Eugenics, your bigotry shines through with this comment:

    “And although there is no proof of a gay gene if there were then we could test for that in the unborn and eradicate that plague.”

    This is why conservatives lost everything.

    We need to rid homophobia and bigotry from conservative agendas immediately.

    Asking the government for help in enforcing agendas that violate people’s civil rights is a contradiction.

    Please stick to foreign policy and domestic tyranny, avoid such social fringe issues that show you watch too much Fox.

    1. @John, I understand satire is above the head of the average fat, dumb American, but I have hope someone is smart enough to get the point.

      And you know what? I don’t have to like faggots and I don’t. And it has nothing at all to do with what the Bible has to say about.

      They’re a disgusting bunch of perverts, no different than a pedophile. Or the drug addict.

      Oh wait. We’re talking about Paulie Sabol here aren’t we. I’m sure his fat slob ex-biz partner would defend his “civil rights” too.

      While we’re at it lets extend those civil rights to the polygamists and snake oil salesmen like James Earl Ray.

      1. @Professor Z,

        James Earl Ray (March 10, 1928 – April 23, 1998) was an American criminal convicted of the assassination of civil rights and anti-war activist Martin Luther King, Jr.

        Is that who you meant? Or did you mean James Arthur Ray? Or did you get confused about which form of bigotry you’re arguing about and whether you’re for or against it?

        If we’re divvying up scammers by their political values, then your side gets Kevin Trudeau and Leonard “Forcible Fondling” Coldwell. Are you cool with that?

        1. @Lanna, it was an intentional association. Glad you know something about American history. Your middle school teachers should be proud.

        2. @Lanna,

          I’ve had people on my website leaving comments defending James Earle Ray, thinking my posts on Death Ray were referring to him. Shows how carefully they read the posts. I don’t think James Earle Ray is the kind of guy who would lead a sweat lodge – even a fake one!

  22. Hello Professor Z,

    Do you mean James Arthur Ray? Or was that “earl” satire as well?

    These issues are none of your business. You and your politics are obviously driven by emotion and fear.

    Let people do what they want to do unless it interferes with what you are doing.

    For instance, if I am upset that my daughter is the only Austrian Girl in a Public School, I will do homeschooling.

    If you are upset that there are Gays in your school, you can do the same thing.

    Asking the government to enforce laws against a certain group of people, or simply holding out the Agenda is something conservatives need to shut up about.

    We need to denounce neo-conservatism, it was invented to make conservatives and constitutionalists look bad.

    Good day,


  23. Professor Z,

    You may be gay yourself. You could have a hormone imbalance tomorrow and begin to crave penis.

    Good day,


    1. @John, thanks for the standard, cliche homoloving response. “You might be gay” because the best way to defend a position is always to say “Watch out because you might become infected with this scourge yourself.” How . . . enlightened.

      At least we both agree it’s a scourge. I mean there’s a reason being called a faggot is offensive. And isn’t it funny how, in 2013, that’s a ‘gay slur’ punishable by a $75,000 fine but you can call someone a pussy all day long and that’s cool because women just love to have that word thrown around and it’s not offensive to belittle someone by referring to them as a woman’s privates.

      “Oh, the poor faggots. Let John suck cock if he wants, he can’t help himself. Isn’t it adorable.”

      And thanks for acknowledging it isn’t a genetic predisposition but instead something a doctor, or psychologist, could easily remedy.

  24. Back to the subject, I believe JAR is for lack of a better word, a serial killer. I do not know for sure, but the death of Colleen Conaway and then the Arizona Incident are too coincidental.

    Were there any other witnesses in the mall at the time Colleen “fell?”

    Could it be possible that JAR was doing an “Exercise” asking her to “trust him” as he leaned her over the rail? This seems to be the types of things these new age gurus do. It’s all too coincidental.

    For there to be a high percentage of DEATH in multiple areas or events controlled by this man, statistically, I would estimate the consumer experience of JAR has a much higher casualty statistic than in any other service in the US.

    This would include skydiving, even the medical industry.

    I think the prosecution was soft. This is a trend.

    1. @Professor Z,

      Do you really think comments about political ideology mean anything? You really need to take in a good deep breath and read about what is going on in the world today.

      The only rational and peaceful groups I see are in Nepal or practicing Buddhism.

      Who gives a shit about the Ideologies when they are all up in arms trying to kill each other…. u sound like a flag waving American,with no legs and no arms and a purple heart taped to your wheel chair in a parade….

        1. @Lanna,

          I know that they are not supposed to take revenge, but I understand why- even though it is wrong.
          if anyone were to Google “Muslims destroy Buddhist temples”. You would see more than 1 million hits.

          This is not happening because Buddhist attack Muslims, it is because Muslims do not feel any religion should be around them but Islam. Not all sects of Islam is like this.

          I would hope that they ( Buddhists) do not continue with this, but what do you do when you are dealing with people who have a long history of “trying” to force their beliefs upon you.

          Not even all Buddhist are in the same beliefs. I would prefer Nichiren Buddhism over Zen and Mahāyāna.

          Maybe they got tired of being peaceful.. :(

          Thanks for this link..makes me feel sad though that they are doing this.

  25. Maybe there won’t be a comeback for JAR but I am dreading that there will be one. The narrative is going to be a very familiar one… the larger than life hero has peaked and then fallen because of his own hubris. That was a valuable experience, a lesson and he is now back, humble and benevolent – still very much a god, only an even better one, a greater one since he was forced through his life experience to overcome his own ego completely. And I can see a lot of people falling for exactly that kind of story of pretend remorse, of overcoming “difficulties”, of becoming better through “adversity”. It won’t matter that the adversity was never his. he will claim the pain of others as his own so that he can make a nice story. Super heroes are loved but fallen heroes are worshipped, because they have that special blend of “relatable normal mortal like me” and “uber human”. I hope I am wrong but this guy has the potential to come back stronger than before.

    All of this in public of course. behind closed doors and for the inner circle he will be “desperate” for lodging. How can a multiple murderer possibly be put through the ordeal of sharing housing with mere druggies?! He is” destitute” and the special few that get to be the helpers, well, they get to be the “special few”! Look mom, they told me I’m special and I am the only one that can help a great being at his time of great need! I am helping god! What does that make me? unfortunately some ppl will never escape his evil.

  26. Ok people, lef’s get off Professor Z’s back. It tough to be a conservative. There are changes and progress everywhere, the nation wants to move into the 21st centrury, things are happening that were unimaginable before. I mean, we dare to recognize that gays and immigrants are also human beings who deserve basic rights. We want to care about the environment, we believe that women should have a choice as to what to do with their bodies and so on.
    He and his buddies are threatened, the new generation does not support their “values”, they are afraid that black helicopters will show up at any moment and turn them socialist and so on.
    So, they lash out; they thrash around, they call names; they turn to buzzard and erratic behaviors. Much like a fish pulled out the water about to die. Let them be. They will die off on their own.
    Now, “Professor”, let me explain you what is going to happen. We, “liberal faggots” will patiently wait until you conservative dinosaurs die of old age and then we’ll dance on your grave and skull fuck (figuratively speaking) your so called “Good ‘ole American values” and do things our way.
    Also, JAR is a dick.

    1. @Glad I Was Broke,

      The world is a cyclical place. The changes and progress you mentioned have happened before. Then they were reverted. No doubt they’ll happen and revert again.

      1. @Silly Wabbit,

        So goes the Great Wheel of Life. But there’s always the saving-the-starfish analogy.

  27. I have a place for him to stay at that is within the comfort levels of his chosen lifestyle… it on the Navajo reservation, in the town of Tuba City…

  28. Salty’s CL ad for jimmy got flagged :-(
    we should repost it.. and maybe a few variations every coupla days from different accounts. We wouldn’t want him to not find a place now, would we? that would be cold and heartless :-P

  29. Evidently The Secret is burgling Hollywood celebrities’ homes.

    Yahoo tells me Alexis Neiers, a teenager who pleaded no contest to burgling actor Orlando Bloom’s home as part of the Bling Ring robberies, and her two sisters, who were caught with stolen property, were home-schooled using a “curriculum inspired by philosophies outlined in the book ‘The Secret.'”

    1. @Lanna,


      On the one hand that’s sardonically funny.

      OTOH, that’s fucking tragic that anyone would think to raise their kids on that. Yeah just when you think not teaching evolution == hitting rock bottom, there’s always someone/thing out there to remind you that there’s no bottom. We can always sink lower.

      1. @Wyrd & Lanna,

        The Secret is to quantum physics what Creationism is to biology. And instead of lobbying politicians, Secretards just send in the marketers and the lawyers. And creationists haven’t financially ruined or killed anyone as far as I know…. And you can talk with creationists.

        And creationists don’t use subliminal advertising to sell their products.


        1. @Yakaru,

          Hey, I like your comment. But some entity on the Internet was apparently offended as they keep modding down your comment. *shrug*

          1. @Wyrd,

            Thanks… It looks like I’ve unintentionally trodden on a few toes, most of which are probably on the same foot.

            I didn’t mean any offense. Creationism is not a religious movement but a political one, which aims to destroy the whole of science (not just evolutionary biology – see the Wedge Document). It’s opposed by many religious believers as well by atheists like me. Ken Miller, for example, is a both biologist and devout Catholic who opposes creationism.

            And actually I was saying that at least creationists don’t engage in the subtle manipulation that LoA sellers do. Creationism is also much more plausible than the LoA.

            Sorry, @SD for the off topic rant.

  30. JAR just needs one sucker in Arizona, yet no one is biting, even after the Droid’s meticulously crafted Craig’s List ad. Maybe the stench of all the death Ray created is just too much, even for the marks who remained on his mailing list.

    Or maybe it’s the thought of having an unrepentant, opportunistic, manipulative psychopathic mass killer in your house chasing down your cats and stealing your Propecia, testosterone, HGH, HCG, Valtrex, Anastrozole, Genotropin and all manner of other drugs the search warrants turned up.

    And, oh yeah, trying to score more Ayahuasca. Unless he “manifested” all that stuff while serving time for the killing of so many good people.

    Nah. Besides, you just know he’d still steal yours. Even after you revise his resume for him and post jobs wanted ads on Craig’s List for him enumerating his dubious… “qualifications”… High school education, 15,000 Twitter followers, sadistic soulless con man, four deaths….

  31. THE reason he failed is that he got too big for his britches. Arrogant. Cocky. Pride comes before the fall.

    1. @Yakaru,

      It will really piss me off if he wins the appeal because of some screw ups from the prosecution or judge.

      But if he wins–what does he get exactly? I suppose he could try to sue for damages and mostly it would let him play out the underdog/victimized by the state roll. He could cry “they didn’t prosecute me fairly!”

      As if that was ever the issue in his case. The only issues that really matters in his case are: 1) he’s a fucking coldstoneheart sociopath (he’s all dead inside) and 2) four people are dead because of him (yes I’m intentionally counting Colleen who, AFAIK, was not mentioned at his trial.)

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

      1. @Wyrd,

        Colleen’s death was excluded from the trial by the judge. It was mentioned in the investigation documents by the state, who noted especially Ray & Co’s immediate and slick cover up — a pattern they attempted again in Sedona.

        The state has also lodged a cross appeal and if they won that he could be tried again, this time with more evidence against him, and without $5 million worth of filibustering from his lawyers.

        I know nothing about law, but my impression is that he would not win appeal. In the last trial, the prosecution established enough grounds for him to be convicted of manslaughter, despite having every evil trick in the book thrown at them by Ray’s defense team, and despite a wimpy sympathetic judge.

        But as I say, I know nothing… And obviously nothing is certain once it goes to court.

            1. @Yakaru,

              That’s so weird though–like somehow, for once, he listened to reason?

              Truly effing bizarre.

              Maybe he knows he’s not god now. Or maybe he thinks he’s a deposed god. Whatever.

              Regardless, scrutiny must be maintained. It still seems likely that if he is ever able to get a sizeable following behind him again, he will once again put people in life threatening situations just so he can show how he’s totally better than they are.

            2. @Wyrd,

              I doubt it was reason that he listened to, given his educational assessment on entering the slammer. I would guess it is a combination of no legitimate funds to squander and some brute reality lessons regarding his status delivered by his fellow crims. These lessons will fade of course if he can muster enough adoring fans to bolster his battered self-esteem.

              Expect a book shortly on how he found salvation and the secret of success in his dank prison cell, and you can too for just $997.00 for his new iron-clad guaranteed Freedom Warrior course. (Venue to be confirmed but Josh and Megan are trying to book Alcatraz.)

  32. @Wyrd,

    To be honest, I’m not so surprised. I always thought his appeal was just for show. I was surprised when it suddenly looked like he wanted to go through with it.

  33. Here is my take: he will decide to hook up with serial killer Charlene Gallego Martinez in Sacramento, CA – she, the US’ worst/most prolific serial killer, who got off due to a really horrific plea bargain back when there was no State money to prosecute – has claimed to have self-rehabilitated (right!) – is out and about – and is preying on young men who are suffering from TBI and PTSD after their military tours. To help them. Mentally. Get better. Shudder.

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