Rippln Ripple Rippln Rip

Rippln-TurdRipples

R u Rippln?

One ripple creates another ripple in a beautiful sequence of ever repeating ripples until :: !!boom!! … holy fucking shit you’re so fucking rich right now. You make Warren Buffet look like Ed Dale :: and all you had to do was sign up for a free app … or something … it totally works.

According to the lie-marketing :: Rippln is going to be bigger than Facebook + Twitter … so text your mom about this opportunity right away.

“In fact, some are saying it’s the biggest breakthrough since email.”

In fact :: some are saying “in fact” when they mean … fake fact.

I don’t know how Rippln is gonna work :: they’re pretending it’s a secret. But I can tell you how Rippln is gonna work :: without knowing how it’s gonna work … because scammers are fucking predictable

– Step One –

Sign people up for a “free” app that’s going to be bigger than Jesus. It’s like :: instead of being on Facebook … now you own Facebook. You’ll finally be getting paid for being so totally uninteresting … you knew this day would come.

When you tell your friends and family about Rippln :: and they sign up … they {and anyone they add} will be added to your downline … er … I mean … ripple.

Watch your ripple grow on the app {cause there’s not much else to do there} :: and think as hard as you fucking can about unicorns.

– Step Two –

Rippln is “free” :: as long as all you want to do is view scamvertisements … and consume shit frauducts. But if you want to make them sweet sweet Facebook type monies :: then you’ll need to buy your way into the pyramid … er … I mean … ripple.

There will be several levels of buy-in :: each level will have its own Presidential Global Online MegaTeam type name … and will be priced at approximately double the previous level. Ripplers will be encouraged to prove that they care about their families and society :: by buying in at the most expensive level … and by encouraging others in their ripple to do the same.

Expensive seminars will be held every couple of months to keep everyone buying :: and selling … Rippln levels.

– Step Three –

Inside the app :: the top ripplers {the only ones making any money} will sell “educational” products promising to help unprofitable ripplers turn their fake businesses around. These products will not help at all :: but they will further facilitate the transfer of funds up the pyramid … er … I mean … ripple.

Full Disclosure :: you’ll have to use email and Facebook and Google etc. to sell people on the idea of buying into Rippln as a commercial alternative to email and Facebook and Google etc. … because no one will ever be using Rippln itself … because obviously.

I heard about Rippln my ripple from the only The Gnome I’ve ever known …

I’m not sure if you’ve heard of Rippln yet or been offered a “pre-pre-launch” position with someone.

Well, it wouldn’t be fair of me to not tell you that if you’re going to position yourself, there is only ONE team you should join.

It wouldn’t not be fair :: position yourself for the pre-pre-launch … the writtens of a ripple gnome are irresistible!

Mike Filsaime wants us to join Rippln via :: The Tsunami Project … what milk-fed-fat-boy Russell Brunson tastefully calls his Rippln downline opportunity. Remember when those tsunamis killed all those people and caused a nuclear disaster? It’s just like that I guess :: but also kinda like Facebook.

Russell Brunson started off in IM :: touring the cheesedick guru speaking circuit … pitching an uber-expensive frauduct which taught noobs to “succeed” online by building forced continuity businesses. Forced continuity works like this …

This Thingy is FR.EE! == {it’s $47.97 per month} == cancel anytime! == {we try to make it fucking unpossible to cancel}

Forced continuity is among the many dirty tricks that currently has Utah’s Ginger King :: Jeremy Johnson … facing an 87 count criminal indictment with a liquidity sucking FTC suit as a chaser.

Brunson and Johnson also have soul smacking :: senior citizen destroying … boiler rooms in common. Johnson was part of an enormously successful Utah ring that’s done billions and billions of dollars in damage :: Brunson had his own Boise based operation … which managed to do millions and millions in damage in spite of BeefCake Brunson being a silly stupid sack of shit.

Rippln-Bigger-Than-TechCrunch

Brunson’s barely literate voice graces the majority of the Rippln pitch videos :: including the one embedded above … which managed to rankle Ryan Lawler’s TechCrunch panties into a bunch.

So here’s a step-by-step for what not to do in your startup video:

… says Lawler :: calling Rippln a “startup” … and thereby helping them scam. Terrible start.

  • Don’t promise (again) that your stupid app is going to go viral. Don’t compare its growth to Facebook, or Twitter. [0:36]
  • Don’t make your stupid app sound like some sort of exclusive club with an “inner circle” and  talk about how lucky we were to be invited and shit. [1:27]
  • VELVET ROPE? NO. [1:33]
  • INNER CIRCLE? FUCK NO! [1:35]
  • INVITE FIVE “LEADERS”? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?! [1:40]

Yeah don’t do any of that stuff :: unless you want your scam to be successful … then definitely do do all of that stuff. Gosh :: Ryan Lawler … maybe don’t talk about shit you don’t know shit about? 

  • Don’t expect the press to cover your stupid app before it’s even friggin’ been released. Except for maybe in posts parodying it. [0:15]

Yeah seriously :: don’t expect the super legit mainstream press to cover some scammy ass app unicorn … before it’s even friggin’ been released.

Driving home after a basketball game one evening, he hit a deer, flipped his truck over four times, mangled his arm and almost killed himself…

Mureta is now an app entrepreneur and, in good Tim Ferris style, travels around the world as a member of what he calls “the new rich”.

And you can be like Mureta, too!

… said TechCrunch :: about an app unicorn … before it had even friggin’ been released. Oh the fucking irony {of how much that wasn’t a parody}!

One of Mike Dillard’s monkey boys :: Jonathan Budd :: is calling himself a Rippln co-founder … and showed up in the TechCrunch comments to do a little bullshit parading.

We’re honored to be a part of the conversation here…and look forward to clearing up a lot of the mis information, & opinions people are offering about our company.

It’s difficult to deny the effectiveness of our opening marketing at this point, judging by how we are having this conversation on techcrunch’s blog…

By which he meant …

Laugh it up Ryan Lawler you stupid bitch :: but we’re making all the fucking monies with our ostentatious lies … and your limp {false superiority infused} non-criticisms are only going to help with that. How’s your AOL writer’s paycheck chump? Just enough to afford repairs to your bicycle?

Rippln :: hot “startup” :: as seen on TechCrunch … all the way to the fucking bank!

According to the Internets :: Rippln CEO Brian Underwood was formerly a “master distributor” with BurnLounge … an iTunes shaped pyramid scheme busted up by the FTC in 2007. BurnLounge suckered 62,250 people for $28 million :: in just two years of lie-marketing operations. But no one got fucking arrested :: so no one stopped their damn scheming … big surprise.

One of Rippln’s other co-founders :: and holder of the Rippln trademark … is man behind the dirty curtain Terry LaCore. You can read the deets regarding LaCore’s involvement with Rippln on BehindMLM :: or you can just skip right to the guts and read this SEC lawsuit against Terry LaCore … for unlawfully taking $1.2 million in kickbacks from a distributor in some other crap MLM he was co-foundering. Kickbacks help ensure all the monies get to the top of the pyramid :: as Oprah and Tony Robbins hath commanded.

Says the SEC’s post lawsuit press release

Woodburn and LaCore agreed to settle the SEC’s charges without admitting or denying the allegations of the complaint.

… that’ll teach um.

But Rippln’s not just another same old bullshit scam :: founded by the same old bullshit scammers … it’s also the same old bullshit morality revolution.

Behind BurnLounge’s Rippln like pyramid scheme :: through the sulfuric haze of what the federal court described as a “labyrinth of obfuscation rather than a readily understood compensation system” … a sadly simple {and too typical} pattern is revealed. Most people who bought into the scheme :: bought in at the most expensive level … because targeted lies are highly effective at moving their intended victims.

The MLM industry is something much more sinister than just an assemblage of assorted pyramid schemes :: it’s organized cult manipulation at an industrial scale … and the results are as grievous as they are predictable.

The fake robot has already shrewdly interrupted the unjustifiably disgusting boiler room operations of Russell Brunson and Anthony Morrison :: but here they are Rippln the ripples together :: all draped in revolution-morality-white … as though their darkness ain’t already documented for the fucking record.

… text your mom :: text your grandma :: text anyone that might still love you … fuck their jobs and their kids and their medical bills and their lives … fuck all that … just buy this American cult unicorn so a bunch of d-bags can snort the proceeds.

I’m sick of watching repeats.

Yesterday :: the newly formed Consumer Financial Protection Bureau announced the first criminal indictment based on its work … brought against a $2.2 million debt settlement fraud scheme. Says the CFPB’s new director :: Richard Cordray …

“There is nothing to get the attention of people who are dedicating their lives to committing fraud like knowing that they could end up in prison,” he said.

for realz.

It’s not that complicated.

>> bleep bloop

207 thoughts on “Rippln Ripple Rippln Rip”

  1. RE the second video and Crunchy Tech:

    Thanks, Salty, for saving us from the full 32min 42sec of pain.

    I suppose, the way these things are built, the previous 28-something-ish minutes will have been the build-up to the final ACT NOW! part.

    I did a little commenting over on the Tech Crunch article on the XKCD basis that “somebody was wrong on the Internet.”
    http://xkcd.com/386/
    Hopefully some good will come from it.

    The cool part is it looks like there’s already a non-trivial number of comments calling SCAM attached to that article. That gives me hope.

    ==================
    On Forced Continuity:

    “continuity” has been just a synonym for “deceptive, leach-like, blood sucking evil” ever since I knew what it meant. I learned what it meant on this site of course.

    “forced continuity” just sounds like another way of saying “even more than normally deceptive, leach-like, blood sucking evil”.

    Also, I have a feeling that the term “continuity” as it’s used in marketing/sales is ooold. Like maybe 20 years old? Well, let’s see-when did the credit card become common? I’m guessing “continuity” goes back at least that far. It has all the hall-marks of vile market-speak–that terrible thing where they make up words to mean the opposite of what they sound like they mean and they get everyone to accept it and use that same word as if it were normal. It’s a 1984-type deal.

    Examples that spring to mind, from the area of insurance, are premium and deductible. They’re made to sound like a premium is something valuable and a deductible is something wonderfully inexpensive. Both of them hide their real meaning.

    “Continuity” is like that. It sounds like “reliability”. And, reliability is a good, right? Well sure it is. If you happen to be the one continuously/reliably receiving money for nothing or next to nothing…


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    1. @Wyrd,

      footnote–Tech Crunch has apparently had troll problems. The March article you linked to with the Muerta scammy thing and the April article with the RippIn scammy thing use different systems.

      For anyone (like me) morbidly curious about technical minutia, they have an article here:
      http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/22/we-want-you-back/

      They never had me. With articles like this, they still don’t. But if they manage to allow/keep the negative comments up, it might not be so bad.

  2. Looks like Salty is still stuck on stupid. You should really find something useful to do with your time. You only get so much, you know?

    1. @ReallyDroid?,

      “Looks like Salty is still stuck on stupid. You should really find something useful to do with your time. You only get so much, you know?”

      Do you mean about like trolling SaltyDroid site?

      It’s OK for us to you about it because we understand: Love Is Complicated.

      1. @Jack,

        I’m starting to think that @Really Droid, having made 189 comments to date, is our very own pet troll.

          1. @ReallyDroid?,

            Sod off, Frag Face.

            You’re deeply boring. Actually, on this occasion I wonder if you’re really you. (IP check on checkout line 12?)

    1. @Jack,

      Yeah, “some people say” is a weasel word. .. Well maybe it’s a weasel phrase.

    1. @Jack, ha probably a bit disgusting to share this, but I just spit coffee all over the place when I read that sentence – funniest moment of today so far!

  3. I can’t wait until they are sued (I hope) by Opencoin.com who is right about to launch Ripple.com and will not be happy to find the name Ripple associated with these scum bags.

  4. Joel Comm has gone on to weigh in about Rippln to say:

    “when I watched the compensation plan video, my eyes glazed over just a few minutes in. It may be that it was late at night, but I found myself having flashbacks to network marketing companies.”

    “As for the actual application that will be released for various mobile platforms, I have no idea as to the value and/or quality.”

    But go ahead to get on his team!

    “Rippln Signup

    Want to be on my Rippln team? Enter your name and email address below. I will make sure you receive an invitation. Once you get the invitation, you have 24 hours to accept it.”

    http://joelcomm.com/rippln-mobile-app-and-network-marketing.html

    1. @Jack, It’s amazing how these people keep reinventing themselves. I’m surprised people like Joel Comm haven’t completely burned out their lists with the endless streams of “get rich online” products, courses and ebooks they’ve been selling for well over a decade.

      1. @Jim, I think this one can be different for mr. Comm because maybe he can teach us about how to promote the Rippln idea with the FreeIQ site which I found out from his is better than YouTube and not any kind of wasteland, either.

        1. @Jack,

          Yep… better than youtube. It sure is a good thing he was able to make a youtube video to advertise his better than youtube on… youtube.

          I think I’ll skip the video.

            1. @fs,

              Thanks for the heads up.

              You’re right–that video was awesome. The scammers give such great material to work with.

  5. SD, Thanks for the info that you post. Always trying to keep people up to date on the next scam in the works. I had a couple questions and comments for you. The reality is that most of these internet offers that people see are done through Clickbank. Who owns Clickbank? They’re as bad or not worse than the Gurus promoting them, but I never seem to hear about any investigation into them. Also, I live in Utah and have previously worked in the “Coaching” industry. I know a lot of the local scams artists and exactly how things are set up. I know people that have been convicted but never went to prison for their scams and are back in business. Would be happy to show you verification of court documents so you can decide if you want to out them for what they do. Another thing that I don’t see mentioned has to do with seminars for Real Estate, Stock Market and not as much anymore but still some Internet. If people knew the investments into these programs they would be amazed. It makes the internet download programs look affordable. A person might spend 5k to 40k at a seminar for “everything” they need and then get a call a week or two later for “Coaching” which can be another 5k to 40k depending on the company. Going to a seminar is like going to a MLM convention, total hype. Any info people want to know, ask, and if I know I’ll fill you in on how it works and the kind of people most of the marketers are. Keep up the good work.

    1. @InTheKnow,

      No one owns ClickBank because ClickBank doesn’t exist.

      “ClickBank” is an assumed name under which Click Sales Inc. does business. Click Sales Inc. and sister company Kount Inc. operate as subsidiaries of Keynetics Inc..

      All three are private companies, share the same address, and are Delaware corporations headquartered in Boise, Idaho. They also share the same officers: Brad Wiskirchen, listed on the ClickBank Team page as the Chairman of the Board; Tim and Eileen Barber, Keynetics founders according to Wikipedia; Jim Tune; and Geoffrey Hoyl.

      Idaho’s public records do not list the owners, and Delaware puts their behind a paywall. I would assume that each of the officers owns part of each company.

      1. @Lanna, Thanks for the info. I’m sure they must be owners or they wouldn’t be listed. The reality is that most of these offers come through clickbank.com, so they obviously know what they have allowed to be listed and what happens to the leads after they are generated, yet I’ve never heard of them being investigated.

        1. @InTheKnow,

          If only ClickBank was investigated… and closed down. It is a sleazy scam operation run by sleazy scammy people and promoted by sleazy scammy people, sucking in a large number of other people, who pay ClickBank their $35, and waste their time and money chasing unicorns, not realising they are being sucked into a really basic form of MLM scam.

          1. @Random stuff,

            I’m not sure if Salty hasn’t covered ClickBank because he doesn’t have proof that they know how sleazy they are, or if it’s because he’s focusing on bigger, Utah-based targets. (Though Idaho is the new Utah, and ClickBank is full of BYU graduates.)

            I took a cruise through ClickBank on the Wayback Machine, and it’s amazing how they’ve reinvented themselves over and over. In the late 90s, they were a payment processor that also offered a sleazy link-buying program. Until mid-2012, they were a payment processor with a sleazy affiliate program. Then they entered into an arrangement with InfusionSoft to provide turnkey sleaziness, and now they’re a completely sleazy solution to monetize your info-frauducts and exploit your mailing list.

            IMHO, any take-down needs to focus on both ClickBank and InfusionSoft.

            I always think of ClickBank as the payment processor to the scammers, but they’re selling their own services (which start at $47 a month) pretty hard. AND, they want to sell me a “Guide to Becoming a Successful Infopreneur” for $27 so I can learn how to spend $47 a month on their services!

            1. @Lanna,

              IMHO, any take-down needs to focus on both ClickBank and InfusionSoft.

              Agreed. Also it would be great to get insiders out of one of these organisations, who can help with the take down.

              Problem with the InfusionSoft is that it looks so shiny and great and new – and most people would miss the Scientology feel to it, miss the ClickBank connections, and not see ClickBank for what it is.

              Something like a Panorama take down using insiders would be the best…

              http://www.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_9032000/9032278.stm

              The problem with both ClickBank is that the ‘customers’ don’t realise that they have been abused, and therefor do not complain. The fact that ClickBank is a market place for such a huge crock of shit and is ‘ok’ from a regulatory perspective, because you can always get a refund if you don’t like the particular crock of shit that you bought – is something I have trouble understanding.

              Re InfusionSoft – Goldman Sachs has invested 54 million. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericwagner/2013/04/09/with-54-million-from-goldman-sachs-infusionsoft-is-on-a-roll/

              They were probably wondering the best way to screw as many people as possible in a better way, now that packaging mortgage loans into securities does not really work any more:

              http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/may/17/wall-street-banks-scrutiny-loan-packaging

              The fact that InfusionSoft is the same model as Herbalife – untrained people being sucked into paying for the right to sell overpriced and generally useless product – probably added to the appeal of the investment for Goldman Sachs.

              Meanwhile Infusionsoft have been using that investment to spam otherwise ok IT conferences e.g. as at

              http://www.internetworld.co.uk/Content/WELCOME-1 with shitty £37 or £8 training programs advertised by postcards placed on seats.

              …not wanting to overwork fake Debbie, maybe there is a fake e.g. James, who can embark upon the InfusionSoft journey and report back to SD?

            2. @Lanna,

              …and I’m just wondering if Goldman Sachs was being grateful to InfusionSoft, after all, waybackwhen, InfusionSoft sold software to help Mortgage brokers spread the Mortgage scam…

              …in 2004!

              http://web.archive.org/web/20040912021126/http://infusionsoft.com/index.jsp

              http://web.archive.org/web/20040908012702/http://reedh.com/crm/

              Leastways, they are companies that do business together.

              But moving through later incarnations of the infusionsoft ‘legit’ business growth is insightful…

              …from 2007:

              http://web.archive.org/web/20070629004416/http://www.infusionsoft.com/

              …from 2010:

              http://web.archive.org/web/20100216212431/http://www.infusionsoft.com/

              …from 2011:

              http://web.archive.org/web/20110226014533/http://www.infusionsoft.com/

              …from 2012:

              http://web.archive.org/web/20120227183505/http://www.infusionsoft.com/

              to today…

              http://infusionsoft.com

  6. I have hard times deciding on which Rippln team for me to join, but I think I’m going to go onboard with the LaunchBoards (JV) because then it’s for me to get Sean McAlister, Amish Shah AND Friends for price of ONE!

    “If you’ve not heard about this…YOU WILL..

    And…

    You’re going to hear everything under the sun
    and every promise known to man on this thing.

    You’ll here people try to use their “name recognition”
    to get you on board and a few other tricks for sure.

    We’re not going to do that because there’s no need to.

    This thing IS blowing up and you WILL kick yourself
    for not getting involved especially while it’s free.

    Look, people know how the game works and honestly,
    we don’t blame people for running as fast as they can
    the other way when you hear about it, but this isn’t MLM.

    >You want the short version….Here it is:

    1) Download apps,
    2) refer app to others (for free by the way),
    3) get paid.

    Now, do you really need us to start name dropping and
    doing fancy tricks to get you to understand the value
    in that?

    Didn’t think so….BUT just in case you’re someone who’s
    impressed by that, on our team we have some of the
    biggest names in online marketing like..

    -Johnathan Budd (one of the Rippln owners)
    ..that’s right…you’re at the top of this
    with us.

    – Amish Shah
    – Byran Zimmerman (Owner of JVZoo)
    – Ty Cohen
    – Mark Thompson
    – James Radina
    – Cindy Battye
    – Ben Cagle

    the list goes on..

    If that impressed you then fine, but the fact
    is who really gives a sh**.

    What will impress you more is what you can
    make from it agreed?

    Again, simple. ==>Download, share, profit.

    Get in our Team…get access to our Team
    Resources, Have a BLAST and Make some Cash.

    We have the Winning team that will do everything
    we can to help you Succeed.

    – Private Facebook Group
    – Co-Op Advertising Opportunities
    – Google Hangouts / Trainings
    – Private Skype Group (coming)
    – Additional Marketing resources

    ===================
    Request Your Invite by replying to:
    ===================

    SEND EMAIL TO:

    **INCLUDE**
    –> Your Full Name (first and Last)
    –> Best Email
    –> Cell Phone

    ===================
    ===================

    We’ll get the invite out to you ASAP…
    please be sure to accept ASAP

    because of the way the system is set,
    invitations are issued in sets of 5…

    the next 5 won’t activate until the previous 5
    are activated…so to ensure everyone gets in
    quick we ask for your cooperation

    Get Rippln!

    Sean

    Some Facts on Rippln

    1) Over 70k users joined within 4
    days of release. The growth rate is
    faster than Facebook when it was at
    this stage. IT’s gone Viral!

    2) Rippln is the First Incentivised Social
    Platform that is completely transparent
    and enables users to see their impact
    across the globe their “Ripple Effect”
    ….which is extremely fun to watch

    And they can make money doing it

    3) **Rippln** isn’t going to just be
    all about apps. There will be a whole
    eco system that users can profit from.

    4) There is nothing like it and this is
    you chance to be ahead of the wave.

    http://NewAppProject.com

    First step in joining the Rippln EcoSystem:

    1. @Jack,

      1) Download apps,
      2) refer app to others (for free by the way),
      3) get paid.

    2. @Jack,

      1) Download apps,
      2) refer app to others (for free by the way),
      3) get paid.

      4) Collect underpants
      5) ?
      6) Profit

      http://youtu.be/tO5sxLapAts

      What I am saying is, if everyone is getting the app for free, how do they get money to pay for referrals? And, yes, I read some of the comments on the Crunch Tech post and on Omri Shabat’s GlancingWeb.com about the $300-$500 buy-in and $50-$75 monthly paying-for-your-paycheck. But how do they expect people to believe in the business model if they’re not showing how the business model generates revenue?

      1. @Lanna,

        But how do they expect people to believe in the business model if they’re not showing how the business model generates revenue?

        Underpants Gnomes say…
        ?

        =====

        I don’t know. My guess would be that they need to get a certain critical mass of “early adopters”/marks and then they’ll use their money to fake-show profits to all future prospects/marks. And then they’ll also “turn up the volume” on their sales pitches about how you need to get in right now.

        It might even be that for the initial chunk they have shills that have already agreed to kick in cash and say “it worked for me!” I think they call them affiliates. (With my apologies to those of you out there that are affiliated-ly selling for products or services out there that are not scammy or that are at least 60-80% not scammy.)

        It’s a hard place for any scam to be–when it’s still a tiny, fragile nascent cell without an army of lawyers to inveigle, obfuscate, intimidate, and just plain sue naysayers into oblivion.

        But I figure every pyramid scheme or Ponzi scheme there ever was had to make it through this risky, vulnerable, painful growing phase like this before it could really get up and running and start causing serious harm to peoples’ wallets and personal lives and occasionally push them to commit suicide and stuff.

        Hey, you know–now might be a good time to do lots of negative publicity for Rippln. Like maybe Salty should do an article or something…

        Salty: Thanks for the article. You rock.

        (NOTE None of the probable sarcasm in this post was intended as mean-spirited. I’ve just had a day is all.)


        Furry cows moo and decompress.

        1. @Wyrd,

          Hah! I’m going to stop saying “legit” and start saying “80% not scammy”!

          I get that people are going to lie about their profits from Rippln/Herbalife/MagCast in order to get other people to buy into Rippln/Herbalife/MagCast. But with Herbalife the money is supposedly coming from customers buying the products. With MagCast, the money is coming from selling the product or service you’re promoting via MagCast. Or the affiliate commission is coming from other people buying MagCast. But if the Rippln app is free, it doesn’t have a single income stream from which to pay sales commissions and downline commissions.

  7. Rippln is bigger than email, unfortunately, as it involves collecting mobile phone numbers *at the start* of the scam.

    I can see an (a) (b) (c) “Ripple” starting up:

    (a) Hard sell Rippln to each person who submitted a mobile phone number and who did not sign up by themselves.

    (b) Sell the phone numbers of the people who still said “No”, to other boiler room scams.

    (b) For the people who buy into Rippln, sell their mobile phone number on to other boiler room scams, once they have already been ‘used up’ on the Rippln scam.

    …plus of course email and other contact details will also be similarily ‘shared’ around.

    I do hope “fake Debbie” is interested in Rippln, and gets a few calls from “Ripplers”.

    1. @Radom Stuff,

      Have these names and numbers signed up for RipOffln yet?

      Russell Brunson 208-336-0295
      John Carlton 775-722-1099
      Shawn Casey 678-957-0578
      Hary Eker 604-836-4910
      Brad Fallon 404-849-2199
      Tim Ferriss 415-475-1995
      Armand Morin 919-844-2400
      Eben Pagan 310-733-1179
      Joe Polish 541-504-2619
      Rich Schefren 954-429-3114
      Yanik Silver 301-770-0423
      Joel Therien 210-379-1437

      1. @Phone Number Frenzy,

        I love it!

        Do you have their private email addresses as well?

        I’ll then start my own Ripple, and invite them all to join!

        I’ll become really rich! Don’t anyone copy me! I thought of the idea first!

        Although if there’s a “fake boiler room joe” around, I’d like to hire him, just to make sure that my Rippln downline came up trumps!

        I’ll let you know when I’m finished with the process, give you a cut of the proceeds, and then you can sell this list onto whoever you want! Sounds reasonable?

        1. @Random stuff,

          Partial email list. Can’t vouch for accuracy or if private.

          Russell Brunson rbrunson@sublimenet.com
          John Carlton john@marketingrebel.com
          Shawn Casey SDIBigDog@aol.com
          Hary Eker ?
          Brad Fallon fallonbrad@mysmartsuite.com
          Tim Ferriss tim@fourhourworkweek.com
          Armand Morin ?
          Eben Pagan ?
          Joe Polish joe@joepolish.com
          Rich Schefren ?
          Yanik Silver yanik925@surefiremarketing.com
          Joel Therien joeltherien@gmail.com

          You can always sign up to one of their lists (using a disposable gmail account) to discover the email addresses they are piking from if a private email address is not available for sharing RipOffln.

          1. @Phone Number Frenzy,

            Thanks; I was going to start my Rippln to my new downstream.

            But then I saw the ripples were whirlpool round above the street drain and going to the sewer.

            And I thought it had so much potential!

            Shucks.

            Maybe these guys might need to learn about internet marketing (I seem to remember they’re all very interested in this sort of stuff).

            Anyone out there got some useful information for them?

            Just email it to them. They would love any help they can get!

  8. This is the latest version of the same scam..

    Magnetic Sponsering
    Global information network
    Empower Network
    etc. etc.

    Common thread is that you only qualify for commissions on frauducts that you have actually bought yourself

    It still amazes me that the FTC does nothing on deals like this.

    1. @realestateguru, In theory, you can actually be in the MLM part of Kevin Trudeau’s scammy Global Information Network (GIN) without having paid a dime. You can sign up as a free affiliate. The “product” you will be selling in order to make money from a downline is a Level I paid membership in GIN, which is $1,000 for “initiation” fee and $150 a month thereafter. (There are currently six levels, each more horrendously expensive than the previous one, and members are continually pressured to upgrade. Level VI, the highest level currently available, costs $25,000. Ultimately there are supposed to be twelve levels.)

      However, it seems that it would be difficult to convince people to spend even the money for a Level I membership if you weren’t willing to spend it yourself, so you might have to lie about being a paid member in order to make your case. At any rate, the GINtanic is in troubled waters right now, though Captain Trudeau is sitting pretty in Zurich and probably won’t show up in person for his civil court hearing, which is scheduled for the 21st of this month.

      1. @Cosmic Connie, The Free affiliate level is so they get the opt in, then they start dripping fear of loss (Scarcity) copy.. looks something like this:

        Hey Affiliate-firstname,

        Joe Blow, who is in your downline is upgrading to the super duper level.

        If you don’t upgrade, you will be missing out on a commission.

        Sincerely,

        Scammer

        If only people could study Caldini’s influence so they can be aware when it is being used on them in a bullshit way..

        Anyway, here they are if you don’t know them:

        1. Reciprocity

        As humans, we generally aim to return favors, pay back debts, and treat others as they treat us. According to the idea of reciprocity, this can lead us to feel obliged to offer concessions or discounts to others if they have offered them to us. This is because we’re uncomfortable with feeling indebted to them.
        For example, if a colleague helps you when you’re busy with a project, you might feel obliged to support her ideas for improving team processes. You might decide to buy more from a supplier if they have offered you an aggressive discount. Or, you might give money to a charity fundraiser who has given you a flower in the street.

        2. Commitment (and Consistency)

        Cialdini says that we have a deep desire to be consistent. For this reason, once we’ve committed to something, we’re then more inclined to go through with it.
        For instance, you’d probably be more likely to support a colleague’s project proposal if you had shown interest when he first talked to you about his ideas.

        3. Social Proof

        This principle relies on people’s sense of “safety in numbers.”
        For example, we’re more likely to work late if others in our team are doing the same, put a tip in a jar if it already contains money, or eat in a restaurant if it’s busy. Here, we’re assuming that if lots of other people are doing something, then it must be OK.
        We’re particularly susceptible to this principle when we’re feeling uncertain, and we’re even more likely to be influenced if the people we see seem to be similar to us. That’s why commercials often use moms, not celebrities, to advertise household products.

        4. Liking

        Cialdini says that we’re more likely to be influenced by people we like. Likability comes in many forms – people might be similar or familiar to us, they might give us compliments, or we may just simply trust them.
        Companies that use sales agents from within the community employ this principle with huge success. People are more likely to buy from people like themselves, from friends, and from people they know and respect.

        5. Authority

        We feel a sense of duty or obligation to people in positions of authority. This is why advertisers of pharmaceutical products employ doctors to front their campaigns, and why most of us will do most things that our manager requests.
        Job titles, uniforms, and even accessories like cars or gadgets can lend an air of authority, and can persuade us to accept what these people say.

        6. Scarcity

        This principle says that things are more attractive when their availability is limited, or when we stand to lose the opportunity to acquire them on favorable terms.
        For instance, we might buy something immediately if we’re told that it’s the last one, or that a special offer will soon expire.

      2. @Cosmic Connie,

        Here is how to resist influence:

        Resisting Influence
        You can also use this tool when others are trying to influence you.
        In these situations, bear the following points in mind:

        Before accepting a free gift or a discounted service, or before agreeing to hear confidential information, ask yourself whether you’re going to feel obliged to give the same or more in return. Should you decline, so that you don’t feel indebted?

        Before agreeing to a course of action, even at a very preliminary level, think about the consequences of your decision. Will you feel so invested in this new course of action that you won’t want to change your mind?

        Though everyone else is pursuing a particular route or buying a product, it may not be right for you. Avoid falling victim to the “herd mentality.” You might decide that it’s best to go against the trend.

        When you feel tempted to buy a product or sign up for a service, ask yourself whether you’ve fallen under the spell of a particularly likable salesperson. Is the salesperson similar to you, familiar to you, or extremely complimentary?

        Carefully note your reaction to authority figures. Has the person you’re negotiating with triggered your respect for authority? Are you making your choice because you want to, or are you swayed by an “expert” opinion? And does this person genuinely have the authority he is implying, or is he merely using the symbols of that authority?

        Before you fall for a sales pitch claiming that a product is running out of stock or that a discount deal is soon to expire, think again. Do you really want or need the product now, or has its lack of availability caught your attention?

        1. @realestateguru, Thank you for taking the time to explain and review. I hope you know that with me, you’re preaching to the choir. I am very familiar with GIN and have blogged about it and Kevin Trudeau numerous times over the past four-plus years, and have commented about GIN and KT on Salty’s blog several times as well. I know that the purpose of the “free” affiliate level is to suck people into the vortex, and in my comment above I was just stating the obvious: that people can’t make money without spending a LOT of money in GIN, and even then, most of them don’t make money.

          Also, I am very familiar with Robert Cialdani’s “Influence” and may have even mentioned it on my blog a couple of times. But it is always good to recap for the benefit of those who may not be familiar with this work.

          1. @Cosmic Connie, The re-cap wasn’t for you and I know that you know the ins and outs of a sales funnel and influence, it was more for the general public. I replied to yours with it, because you set it up like a volleyball.. :o)

  9. “The MLM industry is something much more sinister than just an assemblage of assorted pyramid schemes :: it’s organized cult manipulation at an industrial scale … and the results are as grievous as they are predictable.”

    And that’s the message in a nutshell. I am so tired of cynical people telling me that if people get ripped off by these scams they deserve it. Some victims may in fact be greedy and/or gullible but undoubtedly others, I think particularly the elderly or lonely people, are drawn in out of a desire to belong to some sort of a group.

    It’s just so damn depressing that these scams are seemingly endless.

  10. I made the mistake of clicking onto The Team Tsunami link. First Brunson gave everyone the news flash that there’s no ocean in Idaho. (thanks Russell!), then he shared with the audience the fact that he’s an “infomercial junkie”. (Can’t they get any good drugs in Idaho? Are junkies forced to consume infomercials as a last resort?)

    He said he records them for repeated viewings. He said he enjoys watching infomercials even more than…and there he hesitated, I had the distinct impression he was trying to think of anything at that moment other than the word porn, the true answer, finally he came up with….the Super Bowl.

    Then he and Anthony said rippln was totally different, completely unique, totally unique, completely different, etc. about twenty times.

    And then Brunson used a made-up word, “gameification”, my ears began bleeding and I turned it off.

    Somehow I’m not convinced that I missed a totally different and completely unique opportunity.

    1. @Barbara, gamification is real. It means turning a non-game event into a game by adding milestones and achievements. You can “gamify” learning by handing out badges of accomplishment and such, as done at Khan Academy.

      However, Rippln so far has only TALKED about gamification, not actually demonstrated anything. Frankly, their own story kept changing. First it was (profit off) app recommendations, then it was (profit off) in-app purchases, as explained by Jonathan Budd. I don’t recall any talk about gamification until Troy Dooly brought it up, and apparently they started including that as a new buzzword they can use.

      I offer my own little investigation of Rippln, as I was among the folks over at BehindMLM that dug deep and hard for something concrete.

      http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/Investigating-Rippln-what-does-Rippln-do-Who-is-behind-Rippln-Is-Rippln-a-Scam

      1. @K. Chang,

        “A6: Expert opinions are generally negative.

        On the MLM side, “the MLM Advocate” Troy Dooly of MLMhelpdesk has nothing good to say about the founders or the buzz around Rippln.”

        Et tu, Troy Dooly?

        1. @Jack, Well, he’s a bit more cautious now that his reputation was in tatters after that ZeekRewards ponzi. He did say some “not so good” things about the duo Budd and Underwood over on BehindMLM. :D

          I think Zeek really ruined the reputation of a lot of people in that industry, as it should. The question is will they recover enough, if at all, and will some good come from it.

      2. @K. Chang,

        I’m perfectly willing to accept “gamification” as a concept, as you described it, but I still balk at the idea that any word in the English language can have “ification” added to it as a marketing ploy.

        “Bogost acknowledges the great rhetorical power of the word gamification. If you add –ification to a word, then it’s about augmenting and adding to its core values, not changing them: cf. magnification, beautification, clarification, purification. So the marketers and executives who never wanted anything to do with something so frivolous as games around their business, products and services can get on board with gamifying them. Heck, that’s just adding an extra layer of value, isn’t it?”
        (Ian Bogost) http://www.gamethinks.com/2011/combating-gamification-exploitification/

        1. @Jack, why, thank you. Got a couple other research projects on other scams too. :) Nope, not gonna spam my links here. :D One’s enough.

      3. @K. Chang,

        Echoing Jack… I like your research on the Hubsite.

        http://kschang.hubpages.com/hub/Investigating-Rippln-what-does-Rippln-do-Who-is-behind-Rippln-Is-Rippln-a-Scam

        In particular the waybackwhen link, when Internet Marketers looked a little younger and less sleazy than they do today (only a little less, for some of them!)….

        http://web.archive.org/web/20040615200336/http://zipbrander.com/

        But what I really liked was the self assuming honesty of one testimonialiser:

        “This Will Revolutionalize Internet Marketing…”

        Hi Russell,

        You’re software absolutely ROCKS! As far as I’m concerned it’s the most innovative thing to hit the Internet ALL year! And that’s quite a compliment considering the many awesome programs that were released.

        The most exciting thing about your software is that it gives every marketer the opportunity to offer to “Super-Size” the customer’s order while the customer is still in the buying mood and sitting there holding their credit card. Simply brilliant! You’ve got a viral winner here that will unquestionably revolutionize Internet marketing. Excellent job!

        Malacka
        http://www.writersnest.com

        This fellow’s name is just too close to the truth!…

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malakas

        Unsurprisingly, Malakas’s internet marketing success story has gone to the same parking lot in the internet sky where all internet marketing success stories ultimately go…

        http://www.writersnest.com

        1. @Random stuff, Giving credit where credit’s due, I found that link through here, under stuff on Brunson, about his potato gun days. Thought it would relevant.

  11. While reading the SEC lawsuit against Terry LaCore I noticed that one of his companies that was receiving kickbacks was the Culpepper Cattle Co. of Belpre, Ohio.

    Does anyone remember the awful Western of the same name made in 1972? It’s tagline reads:

    “How many men do you have to kill before you become the great American cowboy?”

    If you change the word kill to bilk, and cowboy to internet scammer, then maybe Terry LaCore could answer this conundrum.

  12. My Rippln Bonus! Just wanted to go about here to tell everyone about that whoever joins my Rippln Team gets the free copy of my Scrolling Captcha program!

  13. Oh dear…what’s a mother to do?!

    This just can’t be good for my little schlubby.

    Not Doctor Harlan Kilstein (who STILL lives at home with Mother) is just about to launch his own knock-off of Rippln: ‘Nibbln’.

    It’s a similar MLM app concept, except that it uses donuts as currency.
    Harlan is convinced donuts are destined to become the currency of the future, at least in the US. Considering Americans grow more obese each year, he may be on to something. He’s done some high-faluten analysis using proprietary financial software he bought on eBay, and has calculated the trajectory of donut pricing over the next 5 years. If he’s right, ounce for ounce, donuts will be more valuable than gold somewhere around October of 2017!

    Anywayz, my nutter-of-a-son is hoping to ‘finally’ strike it rich with the Nibbln app. To test market the idea he’s been walking the streets of Boca looking for chubbers. When he spots one, he walks right up to them with a box of donuts under his arm, holds up his hand kinda like a crossing guard, and then just like Richard Bandler yells, ‘Stop!’. He then opens the box, which almost always induces an instant hypnotic trance in the subject, as they gaze (and drool) at the frosted objects of their desire. BTW, schlubby is thinking about releasing a DVD info product of this novel approach to hypnosis, which he calls the ‘donut induction’.

    Master hypnotist (and schlub extraordinaire) Harlan Kilstein then deftly removes one delectable donut from the box, offers the entranced obese person a bite of that tasty morsel, as their eyes widen and the drool continues to drip on the sidewalk. Ever so slowly schlubby brings the donut up, up, up towards their mouth…moves it around in a tantalizing circle…then, just as it’s almost within biting distance, he pulls the donut back, teasing and taunting his subject (whilst deepening the trance, of course). Next, Harlan s-l-o-w-l-y raises the donut to just under the nose of his morbidly overweight subject as he mutters – almost in a whisper – embedded commands (and other sophisticated NLP techniques you probably just wouldn’t understand) designed to create an irresistible desire to download the Nibblin app, and sign up as an independent Nibblin distributor (with only a modest $149 new distributor fee, and a minimum donut purchase commitment of $99 per month. Of course, friends and family with more available credit can always come in to the program at a higher ‘diamond’ or ‘platinum’ level for a one-time fee of just $5,000 or $10,000 respectively. By ‘going diamond’ or ‘platinum’ distributors get a bigger commission percentage from their downstream recruits, and more boxes of donut mix shipped to their home each month! It’s totally legit!).

    Schlubby told me all about how ANYONE with only a few friends, neighbors or co-workers, can invite them to a free Nibblin opportunity meeting, hear all of the wonderful success stories of average people – just like them, who have made MILLIONS by becoming an independent Nibblin distributor (once there are people who have made millions with Nibbln), buying just a few boxes of special Nibblin donut mix a month, and then just telling their friends about it! Plus, you never have to worry about distributors becoming over-loaded with product inventory they can’t sell. When did you ever see a left over donut at a fat person’s house? They will eat the inventory!

    It sounds so wonderful, wholesome, American dream-ish and delicious!

    From what I gather, all you really have to do is like donuts and like money, sign up as a distributor, then tell two friends. Those two friends will then tell two friends, and they’ll tell two friends, and so on, and so on, and so on…
    Oh my stars! My little schlubby IS a super-genius after all! I mean OF COURSE THIS IS GOING TO WORK!!! What red blooded American doesn’t like donuts? Or want to get rich? Donuts + biz op + Nibblin app = $$$.

    Plus, with all of Harlan’s special knowledge of hypnosis and NLP, he will be able to secretly hypnotize all of the people that come to these opportunity meetings into signing up!

    I just know this is going to be schlubby’s big breakthrough!

    Okay, so he never made it as a Rabbi. His career in education ended almost before it began. His hypnosis centers mysteriously went out of business. He failed at trying to be a big name copywriter. He tried to be like Frank Kern with his ‘Beached Whale Millions’ and that failed too. But hey – it’s not all bad. He is pretty good at taking money from other people and coaching them on how to be successful!

    If only he could make enough money to get his own apartment to I could have my couch back. It would be so nice to watch reruns of Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura in peace and quiet…

    I just hope Harlan launches ‘Nibblin’ before word of the Riplin SCAM gets out and crashes and burns.

    Better go dig out those $1,999 ‘Product Launch 17’ DVDs Harlan bought with my credit card…

    1. @Mother Kilstein,

      Nibbln sounds like a much better program than Rippln. At least when I realize no one wants all the Formula 1 Healthy Donut Powder in my garage, I can sell it on eBay for 30% of the recommended retail price.

      Sign me up! I want to be a Platinum Independent Donut Distributor and Leadership Entrepreneurial Recruiter (PIDDLER)!

      Maybe I could join Nibbln and Rippln, and then I could be the PIDDLER in my Rippl! I’ll bet my Rippls would be so hot I’d earn a badge for Warm Spot or something!

      1. @SD,

        You’re baiting me with schlubby’s attempts to reference CAM research, aren’t you, you iron-sided bag of bolts?

        Schlubby’s talking about this 1997 article that found 6 to 7 20-second intervals at 170% of VO2max with a 10-second rest in between were more effective than 4 to 5 30-second intervals at 200% of VO2max with a 2-minute rest in between.

        As Prof. Tabata explains on Ritsumeikan University’s Featured Researchers page about him, he was testing a new workout developed by the Japanese speed skating team’s head coach, Mr. Irisawa Koichi. He says, “excluding warming up and cooling down, the exercise can be completed in only 4 minutes if repeated 8 times,” so schlubby’s claims that it only takes 4 minutes ignores warmup and cool-down time.

        Tabata also says, “Originally I thought this type of training was just for speed skaters or other highly motivated athletes because it is very painful and tiring.” This isn’t the 30-minute interval training you do on the elliptical machine while watching “Broke Girls.” Australian researchers tested an interval workout similar to Tabata’s less effective version, and this is how it felt for Peter Herzig, who’s now a pro cyclist:

        Herzig subjected himself to the most brutal training of his life–holding back his vomit while a stereo blared the heavy-metal group Pantera.

        Schlubby didn’t warn us about vomit! We know the real time for the program is warmup (10 to 20 minutes?), the 4-minute program, cool-down (10-20 minutes?), and vomit-cleaning (10 minutes, assuming tile and not carpet). That’s 34 to 54 minutes. It’s basically the same time as a regular workout.

        But wait, there’s more.

        You’ll get 2 DVDS with 10 four-minute segments on each one so you get to work your entire body.

        2 x 10 x 4 = 80 minutes

        The 4 minutes (34 to 54 with warmup, etc.) is for a speed skater to practice speed skating or a cyclist to practice cycling. If you want to exercise more than one set of muscles, you’ll have to add up to 80 minutes to your warmup, cool-down and vomit-cleaning time. We’re approaching 2 hours here.

        I sure hope schlubby’s program was developed with a personal trainer or someone else who knows something about this stuff.

        I welcome anybody to point out any errors I’ve made here. I’m not a personal trainer or other expert in this stuff. It’s just that Gary Bencivenga’s writing keeps convincing me to read Rodale publications about interval training and VO2max.

    2. @Mother Kilstein, did you know your little darling is now a disciple of that shit eating grin shyster from the South, Kevin Nations.

      In fact Kevin’s mastermind group is called The Family. Are you jealous Chubbs has found a new home?

      Don’t worry I hear you can find him and he Family at retreats at historic Spahn Ranch!

  14. Apparently Rippln is going to make money off the signees after all. They’re charging $9.50 for a “Rippln Huddle” being held in Vegas this weekend in conjunction with “No Excuses IV”, the west coast version of that scam convention on the east coast profiled in that Scamworld verge article. Apparently Underwood and Budd along with two more Internet Marketers will be giving special lessons if you buy the No Excuses ticket at $495, hotel and gambling and meal NOT included.

    1. @K. Chang,

      I’m reading that as, “You can pay $9.50 to attend a sales pitch for the $495 No Excuses seminar, which itself is a sales pitch for the $5,000-and-up one-on-one Skype coaching with Rippln co-founders, which you’ll need in order to understand how to use Rippln, because the app comes with zero support.”

      1. @Lanna,

        I’m reading that as, “You can pay $9.50 to attend a sales pitch for the $495 No Excuses seminar, which itself is a sales pitch for the $5,000-and-up one-on-one Skype coaching with Rippln co-founders, which you’ll need in order to understand how to use Rippln, because the app comes with zero support.”

        Yeah that’s kinda how I read it too. Sorry I didn’t properly answer your question above about how do the scammers get from (2) ??? to (3) Profit. I didn’t know exactly how they were going to phrase the “GIVE ME YOUR MONEY NOW!” part. I just knew there’d be one somewhere.

        It’s like you say here in your quote. And it’s like what Salty says below. This is what they do. It’s what they always do.

        ===============

        Their only trick is to keep making the same old trick (rabbit out of hat, is this your card, person sawed in half) new every time. That’s the real reason they’re always so gung ho to find the newest, flashiest thing and put a mountain of hype behind it. So they can make the same old scam look new again for the 50-billionth time. (Also new is better for them because mainstream won’t understand it yet and there won’t be as many regulations in the way.)

        So this time, part of the angle is that they say it’s free. *shrug* You know free–like “buy one, get one free”.

        Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @K. Chang ::

      Nice to see you here at the fake robot headquarters.

      They are going to sell expensive levels :: because that’s what they all do … always.

      I guess they’re saying that plan isn’t the plan now :: but bullshit … something like that plan will be the plan.

      But why rush out with the unattractive scam details now … when it’s so much fun lifting other people’s lists.

      1. @SD,

        So… they talk about being a “fan” and they talk about being a “player” and having a “rippln license”. I don’t think they explicitly stated that it costs a monthly fee to be a “player”, but it seems kinda obvious that it will.

        So, they’re new schtick is that you’re paying a monthly fee to play a game. But then, they forked-tongue talk about it in terms that make it sound like a business–or at least some sort of real, financial thing.

        That evens-go-up thing is hella confusing (by design?). Do a lot of MLMs do that? I’m wondering if doing whatever-the-fuck-it-is actually changes the pyramid math in any meaningful way or not. I’m pretty sure it’s not.

        This is definitely a pyramid scheme. I guess they’d call it a product distribution network or something instead though. But only if they have to. They’d prefer it just stay vaguely defined as “game”.

        1. @Wyrd,

          Yeah, the confusing compensation plan is pretty par for the pyramid-shaped course. It’s designed to cut out people who aren’t actively buying and recruiting, bring more money up toward the top of the pyramid, and swindle you out of money your downline brought in.

          One of the biggest pyramid scheme lies is that once you “build your business” by recruiting a reliable downline that’s actively recruiting and selling, then you can retire to your private island and continue to enjoy the commission checks that roll in. The commission plans are set up to cut out anyone who takes this strategy. Your commissions will be reduced to the point where you’ll quit because you’re losing money on “paying for your paycheck.” Then commissions you would’ve earned on your downline go to your upline and back to the company at the top of the pyramid.

          Ackman explained how people who are only selling product or only recruiting don’t qualify for the majority of Herbalife commissions. The company is keeping the money, and when you wash out your upline will benefit from the customer-base and/or downline you’ve built.

          Mona Vie deserves credit for being in compliance with federal law by making their compensation plan readily available and for putting their confusing compensation plan in an attractive PDF brochure that’s easy to read instead of burying it in fine print and legalese. Clap, clap. Now straight to the rotten core of it.

          In the PDF, scroll to “06 TEAM BONUS.” This is how you’re supposed to earn infinite unicorn moniez from your downline. Notice the graphic. You’re supposed to actually have two downlines, a “greater leg” that’s selling more volume and a “lesser leg” that’s selling less volume. Now, to qualify for a team bonus, your lesser leg has to meet a certain volume. You have to establish and maintain not one but two successful downlines in order to qualify. If your lesser leg doesn’t qualify, then Mona Vie keeps the 5% bonus you would’ve received.

          Now check out “07 EXECUTIVE CHECK MATCH BONUS.” This is yet another way you can earn infinite unicorn moniez on your downline, because having only one way would not be confusing enough. “The ECM bonus is calculated by generations.” Generations? What is this, “Vampire: The Masquerade?” Yes, basically. If you’re familiar with any of that game’s permutations, you may have heard of diablerie, in which a younger blood-drinking psychopath may devour the soul of an older blood-drinking psychopath and, in so doing, steal his power as well as his life. Mona Vie: The Masquerade is basically that, but in reverse. If your downline is earning more team bonuses than you, that creates an incentive for your upline to wash you out so the high-volume people you recruited will fall within the generations on which they earn an executive check match.

          Rippln has found its own ways to keep you ever on your toes, recruiting and selling. When you invite people to join, you don’t really know who’s going to be the odds you get to keep and who’s going to be the evens-go-up. The people you recruit who will be really good at promoting Rippln could all wind up under your upline instead of under you. Then there’s the All-Star bonus on “unclaimed Rippls,” which is similar to Mona Vie’s diablerie – er, executive check match. Basically there’s an incentive to wash out people in your downline or keep them very ineffective so they don’t qualify for their bonuses, and then you get those bonuses instead.

          Basically, it’s a game that’s rigged so the winners are the people who are willing to win at any cost and are playing to win following the labyrinthine rules, not by any common sense business idea like “sell more” or “recruit productive people.”

  15. Ok wait… hang on… earlier when I was pretending to be knowledgeable–like I do from time to time–did I miss a basic point?

    Is the app, in fact, not yet existing? Is it still at vaporware status?

    1. @Wyrd, Nobody knows about what the app is or maybe even about if it exists…not even Joel Comm! (btw, be sure for you to join his team).

      1. @Jack,
        hey jack I’m honestly curious, why do you write that way? with all the “about”s? I understand SD uses vulgarity as sort of ‘reverse propaganda’ (and because it’s funny), is your grammatical idiosyncrasy a satire of Spam commenting?

        or is English your second language? if so I’m sorry if this is insulting it just seems like you turn it on and off at will.

        I do love your research and comments, either way.

        1. @fs, I’m not sure about the idea of what the spam comments can be, but SearsCard and McDonalds Breakfast sometimes give me some good ideas for making my blog better for people for people, like the idea for making my About section more about Lady Gaga, because it’s pretty much what anybody wants to tak about now these days (btw, don’t try to let Danny Sullivan get to know about your friends).

    2. @Wyrd,

      What is an app? My mom has asked this repeatedly because NPR keeps using the word “app,” but it’s kind of hard to put your finger on it. It’s software, but does it have to be on a smartphone? I don’t know, so I don’t have a definite answer about whether there’s actually an app.

      I searched Apple’s App Store for Rippln and came up with zero results. Google’s Play Store has looser standards, so I checked there, too. There’s no official Rippln app, but there are about 67 apps you can download to get invited to Rippln, apps like Get Exclusive Invite and Ripple Elite Team Invites. Check it out. @Jack, that’s how you can get an invite! But people in the comments of some of those apps are saying that they’re using Rippln now, so I looked more into that.

      In the Rippln FAQs, which answer important questions like whether this is a scam, MLM or pyramid scheme, it says you can log into Rippln at http://www.startmyripple.com. The FAQs say those who’ve agreed to the NDA are prohibited from sharing screenshots of their Rippln “dashboards,” which explains why I couldn’t find any screenshots of the Rippln app.

      My guess is that some sort of cloud-based, in-browser functionality exists beyond the login screen at Start My Ripple, but in order to avoid the quality control of the App Store and Play Store, they haven’t issued a smartphone/tablet app and are claiming it’s still in the “invite-only” stage to cover for that. I imagine plenty of tech-savvy people will be sucked into Rippln, but, like Anthony Morrison’s TV Internets, it will probably especially appeal to people who don’t really understand the Internet, e-commerce or apps – people like my mom (but less wary of salespeople). On the one hand, they’re not the type to be jailbreaking their phones and tablets so they can install an “invite-only” app that hasn’t been approved yet, but on the other hand they won’t know an app from a website with cloud-based, in-browser functionality.

      1. @Lanna, it bears repeating

        THERE IS NO RIPPLN APP

        The only Rippln app anywhere is a FAKE RECRUITING APP on Google. That one at least admits it’s not real. Google already killed a fake one.

        Thus, any screens you see will be mockups and fakes and “subject to change” as to be useless.

          1. @Lanna, Just tracking your referrals, or “genealogy” as MLM crowd call it. (that, and probably sign up some random victims for their sucker list)

  16. Now I am crying from this video – and not because of laughing too hard, but really it’s just so sad, really…

    1. @Jack,

      That is truly pathetic,forty-seven seconds of nothing. Even worse are the YouTube videos on Rippln done by a guy named Al Sills. You can see he’s living in some sort of travel trailer, it’s depressing as hell, especially when he calls Rippln a “paradigm shift”. If you listen closely you can hear an angel weeping somewhere.

      1. @Barbara, Yes, it’s 47 seconds of nothing. But what I’m also seeing is a smokin’ hot chick – probably hired off Fiverr – boppin’ around my screen. Rippln whah? Rippln huh? Just sign me up, dude!!

        Although, I have to admit, as Hot Chick Marketing (with apologies to Leonard Stegmann) goes, it’s pretty low rent.

    2. @Jack,

      The song is catchy

      “Get ready to rip-off
      It’s quite simple,
      If someone wants a refund, you tell him to fuck off”

  17. i understand your passion about this but i think if you made another page like this warning people – all the swearing it will reach those people that would not continue reading because they may think what you say has no value and miss all the clear and evident facts about rppln and the “founders” … :)

    1. @emn, Salty is called “Salty” for a reason. :D

      If you want to read a “mild” investigation you can always read my investigation. :D Link’s above.

  18. Important: Ty Cohen has told me about that Rich Schefren is to cure us of something and it’s can also be an exciting time so for you to know about the man behind so many Salty Droid categories.

    “Ty Cohen Support@platinummillennium.com via priorityoneemail.com
    10:00 AM (4 hours ago)

    to me

    If you’re a procrastinator, you already know it.

    You don’t need anyone to tell you that you SHOULD
    be taking action.

    Or you SHOULD move on that new big project.

    Or you SHOULD finish more critical tasks.

    You already know that.

    What you need is for someone to tell you HOW to
    accomplish that.

    HOW to get over that impulse to put things off.

    HOW to stop procrastinating and get things done.

    And that’s exactly what my friend, Rich Schefren
    will reveal in this TODAY’s, 3pm Eastern / 12 Pacific / 8PM GMT, LIVE web training.

    As one of my readers, you’re invited to attend.

    Register for this training here, now;
    https://schefren.infusionsoft.com/go/Cure/TyCohen/

    If you don’t know Rich, he’s the thought leader
    behind legendary free reports like his Internet
    Business Manifesto and his Missing Chapter report.

    As an entrepreneur, Rich has built three million-dollar
    businesses in his lifetime. He has also helped
    thousands of entrepreneurs build their businesses…

    And created more millionaires than any other
    online business consultant alive.

    But what’s interesting is during all that time…

    Rich has also been a procrastinator himself.

    So for the past 20 years, Rich has been reading
    everything there is about procrastination.

    Recently, Rich finally uncovered THE answer he’s
    been searching for.

    He discovered why entrepreneurs like you and me
    procrastinate. And how to overcome that impulse so
    you can get things done.

    In TODAY’s LIVE training…

    Rich will reveal this untold, root cause of
    procrastination.

    More importantly, he’ll tell you how to cure your
    procrastination once and for all, so you can get
    things done for your business.

    So if you have EVER suffered from procrastination,

    I highly encourage you to attend.

    Reserve your spot here.
    https://schefren.infusionsoft.com/go/Cure/TyCohen/

    To your success,

    Ty “From Procrastinator to Millionaire” Cohen

    Platinum Millennium

    PO Box 644
    Garner, NC
    27529
    US”

      1. @Lanna,

        I see you cite Wikipedia. I learned that term, FUD, outta the Jargon File. (which I see is one of the main sources for that Wikipedia entry. And it’s likely the real reason why all that SCO v. IBM stuff is on the wiki page. Because, quoting the second portion of the Jargon File Entry:

        http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/F/FUD.html

        [In 2003, SCO sued IBM in an action which, among other things, alleged SCO’s proprietary control of Linux. The SCO suit rapidly became infamous for the number and magnitude of falsehoods alleged in SCO’s filings. In October 2003, SCO’s lawyers filed a memorandum in which they actually had the temerity to link to the web version of this entry in furtherance of their claims. Whilst we appreciate the compliment of being treated as an authority, we can return it only by observing that SCO has become a nest of liars and thieves compared to which IBM at its historic worst looked positively angelic. Any judge or law clerk reading this should surf through to my collected resources on this topic for the appalling details.—ESR]

        I remember SCO. (Not from the wiki entry, just generally) I remember they did a lawsuit so stupid that any articles on slashdot about the SCO lawsuit against IBM were represented by an extra spiffy logo reproduced here (if the embedding works)
        http://www.flickr.com/photos/7412504@N02/8810379592/


        Furry cows moo and decompress.

          1. @Wyrd,

            Oh, there’s the pics! It’s funny–I tried to write about SCO shooting itself in the food and appear to have done likewise.

            I think all the Flickr embedding was non-functional when I originally posted. Either that or it was a browser problem.

  19. Forgive me is I seem Naive Jack, but is there a particular thing wrong with the Rich Schefferen Procrastinator class? For instance, is it not really $97 for the class? Or is it because he will not deliver the class?

    1. @John,

      It’s sloppy that the class was on Thursday, May 23 and yet the landing page and signup page are still live on Monday, May 27 with no mention of the class being over. I guess you could pay for it and get access to the replay, but then you’d miss out on the promised Q&A. I’m not saying that’s fraudulent, just that it’s sloppy and unprofessional to not update it, either manually or using an automated event date. I would expect more considering everything Rich Schefren is held out to be – a successful businessman, a consultant, a strategist, a guru.

      Then, you mention the $97 fee, but I think some people – reasonable consumers, perhaps – would not see that the fee is $97, not $5.

      On the landing page, you can click this button …
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/24320537@N06/8852291586/

      … or this button …
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/24320537@N06/8852291498/

      … before you get to the body copy explaining that it’s really $97. You could also skim over the plain black body copy and click the same bold, colorful button at the bottom, and you might not see that you’ll be charged another $92.

      On the signup page, you can click this “order” button on the left side of the page …
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/24320537@N06/8852291436/in/photostream/

      … without reading the copy on the right side of the page saying the cost is $97 and that you’ll be billed another $92 after the event unless you contact customer service and say it wasn’t worth it.

      In my opinion as a marketing professional, this layout intentionally obfuscates the real cost, avoiding the FTC’s current guidelines about website disclosures (PDF – see p. 23 and the best-practices example on p. 49) in compliance with 16 C.F.R. Part 425.

      Then there is the question of how easy it is to contact customer service and cancel the $92 payment. If they didn’t answer the phone during the 24-hour cancellation period or gave people the run-around, that would violate 16 C.F.R. Part 425. I only see one complaint online about Rich Schefren’s customer service, and that’s about not getting all the “bonuses” right away, so I won’t belabor this point.

      Finally, I’m not sure what new light Rich Schefren can throw on “curing procrastination” that’s worth $97.

      In this 10-minute “Why You’re Procrastinating and How to Get Things Done,” podcast, Schefren says he’s been reading David Allen‘s books. Then he says a bunch of stuff that seems quite derivative and frankly didn’t hold my attention. Stuff about planning a project linearly, which, despite its wibbly-wobbliness, is how we usually experience time and therefore plan project timelines.

      Schefren isn’t a professional researcher studying productivity or gamification or any other science of how people accomplish stuff. He’s basing his knowledge on books like Allen’s $9.49 “Getting Things Done” – published in 2002 and available used from $1.65, kind of like @Jack’s “Lean Six Sigma for Dummies.” While everybody has their useful little observations and lifehacks, what nuggets of wisdom could he possibly offer me that are worth $97?

    2. @John,

      Also, I found out where Rich Schefren will give me a $97 value for FREE! and teach me how to “have an Internet business that takes away my frustrations and delivers my freedom.” (Quotes because the quotes in the original tell me that it’s not really true, not because it’s quoted word-for-word.) So I think I’ll just go here for my $97 worth of Rich Schefren wisdom nuggets today.

    3. @John,

      Just take a critical look at The Internet Business Manifesto.

      Schefren’s backstory is that he built up The Family Clothing Store in Manhattan into a $6.5 million (assuming that’s gross income) business. But the State of New York can’t find a business with that name.

      On page 4, he uses a Google screenshot to try to prove that business Internet service providers Bellsouth and Covad are placing ads for the quote-enclosed keyword phrase “Internet business manifesto,” but AdWords users can choose different keyword matching options such as broad match, not just exact match. As shown below, Google has no problem rearranging words and dropping “manifesto” from a quote-enclosed phrase in order to serve up some PPC results:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/24320537@N06/8853321324/

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/24320537@N06/8852706555/

      Either Schefren doesn’t know as much about building an Internet business as he claims, or he does know and this was outright lying.

      But the worst thing about Schefren are his friends. He tries to use social proof to show he’s an A-team Syndicate-type IMer, but anybody who reads this blog knows what those guys are really doing.

      In the Manifesto, he’s got testimonials on page 7 from Mike Filsaime and Harlan Kilstein.

      Salty Droid readers know Mike Filsaime as the “boiled gnome” who admitted in a recorded phone interview with the Droid’s operator, Jason, that he funneled his leads into boiler rooms, including one that was sued by the FTC, one that bamboozled Debby out of $10k, and another that allegedly waterboarded an employee.

      Harlan Kilstein is a Scamworld underachiever who only made it onto this site by calling victims of sexual assault, “Just a bunch of looney tunes women with mental issues.” He sells a $109 product called “Finger Healing” about how holding your hands in different positions can fix all your problems, and he calls himself “Dr.” because he has an Ed.D. degree. Salty caught him using fake testimonials, and he’s rumored to have taken IM B-teamer Maria Andros for $100k in exchange for copywriting gems like “My NEW Secret Weapon & … I blame Harlan Kilstein Special BONUS inside.”

      Harlan goes on to name-drop some other people which whom Rich has been “strategizing.”

      One is Stephen Pierce. Now selling self-help products at Get Motivated! events around the country, Pierce claims a ghetto rags-to-riches backstory but actually grew up in a middle-class military family, according to his brother. He left his brother and parents holding the bag in the 90s when their ISP business went bust – after he spent a bunch of company money on personal expenses. The FTC quickly shut down his attempt at a financial scam, and then he moved on to becoming financially successful by claiming to be financially successful. His now ex-wife worked that business with him. During their divorce proceedings, he sent this text message to her. Nice guy.

      Lies, ignorance and the company he keeps – that’s enough for me to call Rich Schefren a bad guy.

  20. Thanks for that Jack. Just finished reading it. Pretty good stuff. I take it you know that is not the one we were talking about? I still have trouble understanding what is bad about the guy.

    1. @John, I know about it’s not the one we’re talking about. mr. Schefren can make a document with pretty pictures, but seems can’t apply the pretty pictures to his own business. Can you make pretty pictures copying them out of books and memorizing presentations?

  21. Hello Lanna, and thank you for your research! Yes, I did in fact take a critical look into these businesses.

    I do also believe it is important to look into both sides of the spectrum as I did when I first found SaltyDroid.info.

    I had done a search in google shortly after and found the first result “Jason Jones SCAMMER” which of course could be biased which prompted me to look further into this. It is quite an extraordinary discussion!

    Regarding the Schefren topic, I take your points quite well. My thoughts are as follows: Your conclusion is that this “Guru” is a “bad guy” because he lies, he is ignorant and keeps bad company. My conclusion rivals yours a bit (After careful consideration) so please allow me to play devil’s advocate if you will. First I had looked into the “Family Clothing Store” issue. I too, was not able to find such a store by using google maps. The thing is, “manhattan” is not the best keyword to use in this case. I would try “NYC” or “New York City.” Manhattan is technically a borough, so it would be the equivalent of you doing a search for a store in “Brooklyn.” Now in some cases, yes. You are right, many stores’ mailing addresses would come up as “So & so” Brooklyn” but a lot of them would state “Brownsville.” Now I think you need to be honest with yourself that this is probably a true story. There are just too many reasons why we are not able to find this store and not enough info coming from Schefren as to where this store is located. So you have obviously jumped to conclusions in order to justify your theme here. You need to ask yourself, in the course of people’s lives, how many experiences have ordinary people had “Helping a company out.” A bum off the street could have something like this in their resume. I would think it would be easier to believe this man did in fact help out a clothing store rather than believe this “guru” would CHOOSE to use this as an example. Basically, if he was to lie about something like this, wouldn’t he choose a better example? Something more exciting and impressive? Not to mention there are literally thousands of stores in NYC many of them changed their names after being sold since the time he states he worked for them. This was sloppy reporting on your behalf. (No offense)

    You immediately condemned this man’s class registration page or “sales page.”

    You state that he is telling people that his class costs $97 and he is not letting his prospects know this before hand which would indeed violate FTC regulations. I took a look at his page and it indeed states very clearly, “$5 now and $97 after the class.” You also assumed that he does not have a class after the date specified, and jumped to a conclusion that there will only be videos. The thing is, we do not know this. And it does not matter because it states the date on the page. This is very similar to when you buy a ticket to a Metallica concert and the page is still there. Again, this is very sloppy reporting and could get you in trouble. You stated it did not explain $97. You either did not see this or you are lying.

    Next, you mention how he flaunted his google results for his brand name. I do agree with you to some extent. AT&T obviously comes up for “Internet Business” as well as “Internet Business Manifesto.”

    The thing you didn’t count on was that AT&T and these companies scour the Google Keyword Tool and use every keyword that comes up related to “Internet Business” and I wouldn’t bet on the reality that his brand name is NOT in their adwords account. See they scrape all of the related keywords and they are probably all in one adgroup. This is what Monopolies do. Now, if he in fact did make this up, he could have been sarcastic, he could have been making a joke, this is after all an ebook he wrote, which does in fact have quite a bit of results other than companies like AT&T bidding on his brand names, and it is not a sales page. So there is no reason for him to “talk it up” so to speak once someone has begun to read it. I am not quite sure why he speaks this way inside the ebook instead of on his sales page. Again, this was another straw man argument you had made here. I am actually curious as to your expertise in this area as you mentioned you were a marketing professional. I am curious what your achievements or qualifications may be.

    You should know that he used quotes, which is a relative match rather than a broad match. You should have known this.

    You then lock in only two possibilities. “Either he doesn’t know how to do business or he is lying.” The thing is, we both know there are a lot of other possibilities. I did not have a lot of time to look into his entire business, but from what I saw, your argument is screaming desperation. I will explain..

    Regarding his friends, again, you use guilt by association tactics I believe because of your lack of facts. Either that or you are a bit bored? If all you have on Mike Filsaime is that he “worked with” a company this could mean many things. As you know, if it is not your company, there is the possibility that you will be surprised to hear things about the company you are working with. As we know, companies to not audit or investigate each other so there is no real reason you can know if his association with them is illegal or unethical. There are ways to find this out, but I take it from how hard you worked on your post that you gave me the most “damning” stuff you have which may sound awful to the outsider who does not do business, but seems quite desperate to a business person.

    The Harlan Kilstien Character, well in comparison to the scammers on the Internet that steal $20,000 from the elderly, I’m sorry that you waste your time! If any or all of these individuals are similar to your assessment of Rich Schefren, I am sorry to say I won’t be able to write this one up.

    Regarding Stephen Pierce, you used a text message to claim he is again a bad person. I do see some very serious allegations elsewhere on the net for this individual. You had failed to bring these to my attention, and instead used some very weak stuff. I would work on this.

    Lanna, Jack, thank you for your time. I do however feel a bit concerned for you guys as this seems like a colossal waste of your time. Thank you!

    1. @John, http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2013/03/dotcom.shtm

      http://www.ftc.gov/os/2013/03/130312dotcomdisclosures.pdf

      Re: Multiple “Yes Rich! Reserve my place for $5.” through sales letter:

      “Repeat disclosures, as needed, on lengthy websites and in connection with
      repeated claims. Disclosures may also have to be repeated if consumers have
      multiple routes through a website.”

      Re: Placing “$92” on side on 2nd page:

      “Where advertising and selling are combined on a website or mobile application — that is, the consumer will be completing
      the transaction online — disclosures should be provided before the consumer makes the decision to buy, e.g., before clicking on an “order now” button or a link that says “add to shopping cart.” Example 13”

      BEFORE “click on an” order button. FTC also wants to tells us about close PROXIMITY if disclosure makes something like maybe a price different.

      “4. To make a disclosure clear and conspicuous, advertisers should:
      ● Place the disclosure as close as possible to the triggering claim.
      ● Take account of the various devices and platforms consumers may use to view advertising and any corresponding disclosure. If an ad is viewable on a particular device or platform, any necessary disclosures should be sufficient to prevent the ad from being misleading when viewed on that device or platform.”

      “In reviewing their ads, advertisers should adopt the perspective of a reasonable consumer.20 They also should assume that consumers don’t read an entire website or online screen, just as they don’t read every word on a printed page.”

      So mr. Schefren can’t put “$92 later” DIRECTLY above the order button? Why didn’t he do that one???

      Good luck in your business where you trade the $1.99 of value for fake products priced 100x to 2000x higher than real value.

    2. @John,

      You search Google Maps and you call my search of New York State’s Department of State, Division of Corporations, State Records & UCC for both active and inactive business entities sloppy?!

      You, sir, can go fuck yourself. Or order a Rich Schefren product, which would be equivalent.

    3. @John,

      You are struggling mightily to write in this lofty pseudo-intellectual tone but you still come through loud and clear as rock stupid.

      Take for example: “I do also believe it is important to look into both sides of the spectrum”. A spectrum is “a broad range of varied but related ideas or objects, the individual features of which tend to overlap so as to form a continuous series or sequence” (thanks, Dictionary.com), like a color spectrum.

      You cannot look at both sides of a spectrum. Now if you had said “issue” or “matter” or any of dozens of other words but you chose to go with the nonsensical.

      Talk about a colossal waste of time, that would be reading your comments.

  22. Hello Lanna and gang,

    Lanna, your reporting is sloppy. Your conclusion is premature. This is mainly because you concluded without disclosing the obvious. Your search if true would only rule out the possibility that this was the corporation name.

    The title “The Family Clothing Store” could quite possibly have been a DBA (Brand) and the big problem here is that I think you are aware of this, but made the conscious decision to leave that part out so you would have an argument. It is also possible that the name used on his bio is not exactly the correct name by a letter or word. You must know that there are other possibilities.

    The possibility that the store was sold and/or there is a discrepancy in the name still stands. If your argument was a good one, you would have perhaps counted on me not being a total idiot. It is important to be honest if you are going to spend the time preparing screenshots and information.

    Your dishonesty is appalling.

    To conclude prematurely in the way that you did is infantile and dangerous as I do not appreciate being lied to and sent on wild goose chases. This is false reporting.

    You need to understand that I cannot 100% trust any source of information, so when you ask me to look at something and you are incorrect, and very suspiciously and coincidentally avoiding very prominent facts that could work in his favor, anyone would naturally become suspicious of the source.

    You can now explain why you obviously and intentionally held back facts that were in Rich Schefren’s favor regarding the page in question and you did not explain your mistakes made which discussing Google Adwords.

    Jack, you state that there is no mention of $97 on the first page when there is. I also think it is impossible to miss.

    It states $97 as many times as the mention of $5 to register.

    You have some explaining to do why you stated the $97 was only on the 2nd page and out of proximity when you know it was not. There is one thing that becomes more frustrating than the research itself, and that is misinformation.

    Please do not waste my time.

    1. @John, Can you understand things? TWO “Reserve Your Spot” buttons BEFORE $97 is seen. It’s why FTC says…da-dum…

      “In reviewing their ads, advertisers should adopt the perspective of a reasonable consumer.20 They also should assume that consumers don’t read an entire website or online screen, just as they don’t read every word on a printed page.”

    2. @John, what you said:

      “Jack, you state that there is no mention of $97 on the first page when there is. I also think it is impossible to miss.”

      I didn’t say that one. ANYWHERE. No, no, no.

      Once more from me: “Can you read and understand things?”

      Simplified for John:

      1. Multiple paths thru sales page.
      2. TWO Clickable order buttons BEFORE $97 mentioned on the first page.
      3. Don’t assume people read full page, because it’s that many people don’t.
      4. 2nd page. Why no $5 + $92 directly above order button?

      Tip-o-the-day. FTC loves little disclosure things right above Order buttons when possible (read examples in Dot Com Disclosures, but probably won’t do you any good, because you don’t understand or comprehend too well I think)>

    3. @John,

      I find your lack of faith disturbing.

      also…

      Your dishonesty is appalling.

      also…

      You need to understand that I, personally, have less than 0% trust in you as a source of information.

      also…

      Based on my reading these comments here… and based on a cursory look at Rich Schefren’s page, I’m prepared to say this: His page looks like shit. To be more precise, his page looks like it’s a scam. It appears that he’s running a very typical, very boring scam where he tells you stuff that he noeses like as if he’s got the 10 commandments written on stone tablets… but really you could get the same information out of any random motivational speaker or self help book published in the last 20 years.

      This all seems patently obvious to me. But it seems totally not obvious to you. It seems like you’re willing to bend over backwards to give Rich Schefren the benefit of every possible doubt but you will do nothing of the kind for @Lanna or @Jack–blatantly ignoring their points while claiming to take them seriously. Raking them over the coals for any perceived inaccuracy while going well out of your way to make excuses for Rich Schefren and his very boring web page.

      One has to speculate about the possibility that you might not be a neutral third party observer.

      P.S.
      When I went to his web page, I saw a part up by the click button that said something about $97 “value” and it being “free”. Didn’t make much sense to me. Is it $5? Is it $97? Is it free?

      If it’s confusing (and it is), then Rich is already losing no matter whether he’s just a scammy guru or not. Your business model should not involve confusing the (potential) customer intentionally or otherwise.


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  23. Dear Wyrd,

    Because something “appears” in a certain way you conclude. This is bigotry.

    Judging from your comments you too cannot be taken seriously.

    If you are wondering, my question is whether or not the tagline “You can’t make money online” was figurative or literal.

    I can see that this is taken literally by you and others which I do not think was the original point.

    Lanna did a company search using the DBA of the shop and concluded. These are not the actions of an individual I can take seriously. Agenda based reporting such as this is used throughout everything you bring to the table.

    I take their points very well. The problem is in the premature conclusion, see it reeks agenda and dishonesty.

    Jack, If that were my page I would include the $97 in the green box. I would want my customers to be able to have funds ready and to not receive high chargebacks. I do understand that these instructors do business to business and therefore his customers may be quite familiar with him and how to read a page. If this was a Bizopp and the prospects did not know better I may feel a bit more suspicious about the page.

    This is not the issue. The issue is that you are immune to all factors involved and have no dynamic thinking, therefore your argument has evolved into a microscopic disagreement. That is how unprepared you are to discuss this.

    I highly doubt the FTC would say “Da Dum” regarding that page.

    Your points are bogus and do not make any sense. The proximity that you see on the page there is reasonable and would make a terrible example of a scam.

    In addition to your miscalculation, Visa/Mastercard or the Merchant accounts which most likely have seen it first and allow it to run would obviously ask him to make the adjustment but they didn’t. From experience, there are other reasons why a marketer would include the $97 verbiage as well, for instance to allow the customer to understand to have the $97 available at the time of billing.

    The rebilling would not work if the customer did not understand that there was a rebill. There are other reasons to include the full truth of billing on a page. This is why your choice of topics is not the strongest of subjects.

    The FTC rule is important as many businesses in other industries are breaking this rule, some of them fail to disclose recurring billing at all. Most people would not count this as misleading in comparison to most other online products.

    This is a very poor example of a scam.

    You are an unintelligent waste of time, back peddling and blatantly lying so because of this therefore nothing you say has any merit.

    Lanna, most companies do business under another name. For instance, Johnstown Mall is Johnstown, LLC. You must know these things and therefore you are a liar.

    Sorry guys, I cannot be apart of such emotional tantrums. If you do continue to address this issue I would appreciate it if you do not continue to play such games.

    1. @John ::

      You’re the only one having a tantrum turd.

      Rich Schefren is a fucking scammer :: talking yourself blue will do nothing to change that obvious fact … so just deal with it.

      Dealing is the first step to healing.

      That shit rhymes … so its truth is incontestable.

    2. @John,

      “I highly doubt the FTC would say “Da Dum” regarding that page.”

      Probably they’ll amend guidelines to mandate saying it.

    3. @John,

      You are incredible! Your very first line reads:

      “Because something “appears” in a certain way you conclude.”

      That is not a sentence. That is a sentence fragment. A sentence must include a subject and a verb and express a complete idea. Do you see what’s missing from your attempt at a sentence?

      You’re also a complete dick, a flaming bag of shit, and an ignoramus to boot. You call Lanna “an unintelligent waste of time”? Nice try, asshole. Just because you seem incapable of reading and comprehending your betters doesn’t mean they are not intelligent.

      After all, you are the one who cannot write a complete sentence. Let us know when you get out of third grade.

    4. @John,

      Dear @John,

      Because something “appears” in a certain way you conclude.

      … I conclude what exactly? You’re using the verb “conclude” in transitive verb form… but you neglected to specify what I am concluding. (I.e. “conclude”, being a transitive verb, needs an object.)
      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conclude
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_verb

      Judging from your comments you too cannot be taken seriously.

      I’ll let you decide for yourself if you should take me seriously, lightly, or maybe with a side jam or butter. Remember though that it’s sometimes the function of the fool to call out when the loser, d-bag (in this case Rich Schefren and his shitty web page) who’s-pretending-to-be-emperor is running around in his birthday suit.

      If you are wondering, my question is whether or not the tagline “You can’t make money online” was figurative or literal.

      There’s already an article all about that.
      http://saltydroid.info/you-cant-make-money-online/

      Also, if you actually RTFA, you will note that, effective 3/19/2013, “… you can’t make money online.” is no longer a tagline of saltydroid.info.

      I mean, Really-Droid-John… it’s as if you weren’t paying attention or something. Sheesh.

      ——->
      Because John keeps meandering all over the avenue of consideration.
      <——-

      Be careful, John–"you need a B.A. to drive this idea home." John, Are you sure you have not been drinking while logical thinking?

    5. @John,

      I had no reason to suspect that The Family Clothing Store was a DBA, and if it was as simple as Johnstown Mall vs. Johnstown, LLC, then my search for “Family Clothing” would’ve turned up something promising. I did email the State of New York to see if it was a DBA, but that doesn’t even matter because that wasn’t the name of the store. I did some more digging.

      Rich Schefren himself will tell you that the name of the store was the Antique Boutique.

      http://youtu.be/kltuFp3wi1Q?t=50s

      The New York Times even corroborates that Dolci and Gabbana shopped for “vintage ski looks” there in 1995. In 1997, a Norwalk, Conn., paper picked up a Wall Street Journal article quoting Schefren about the desirability of baggy jeans. A Daily News Record article said the store’s 1996 sales volume was over $7 million.

      With all that old press demonstrating that Schefren’s a high-earning trendsetter with famous friends, why doesn’t he include the name of the store in every bio?

      Well, as he’s said, it was the family business. The Daily News Record elaborates:

      Shefrin, a New York native, took over the store in 1994 from his father, Harvey, a major used-clothing wholesaler, who planned to close what at the time was an unprofitable outlet for his apparel. Now with merchandise support from Harvey Shefrin’s $30 million used-clothing sourcing firm, and a possible major international franchise deal in the works, The Antique Boutique is striving to become the “Bell Laboratory” of fashion retailing.

      Harvey Schefrin’s used-clothing sourcing firm is called Noamex, Inc. It’s registered with the State of New York as active since 1964, and the New York Times wrote an article about where the clothing goes. The Noamex website confirms, “In New York City, we owned and operated The Antique Boutique, a vintage clothing store located on Broadway in the trendy Village, from 1983 to 2003.”

      Maybe Schefrin doesn’t want to associate himself with this unsexy business:

  24. SD,

    So because one of your slogans actually do rhyme the subject is incontestable?

    You perhaps should have one of these gurus mention or advertise your site to their customers. They would join in on this discussion and that would be incontestable. :)

    1. @John,

      Once again, you have failed. I’m sure you thought that was quite the scathing put-down but it’s stupid and weird.

      1. @Jack,

        Would you mind if I borrowed that and set it to music? I’ll call it “The Ballad of John”. (set in a minor key, of course, kind of a dirge)

  25. Hello Barbara,

    You are quite assertive when it comes to your opinions of how the English Language is spoken.

    You state that a sentence is only a sentence when it includes a verb, a subject and a complete idea? I can see that ignorance is encouraged here. You are actually completely fabricating this and you are quite aware of it.

    If you were correct, this would not be a sentence;

    You are a vulgar woman and you do not have a brain.

    There is no verb in that “sentence.”

    Wait, I forgot, I cannot call that a sentence even when describing what I wrote.

    Where did you find these requirements of what makes a sentence a true sentence?

    See, in reality, a sentence is a grammatical unit of one or more words that expresses an independent statement, question, request, command or exclamation.

    And I did not call Lanna unintelligent, I had called Jack Unintelligent.

    Have a nice day.

    1. @John,

      Hey asshole, the words “are” and “have” in your sentence are both verbs. Good luck with your second time around the third grade.

      1. @Barbara,
        god, don’t let @john get you any more riled up. I’m sure you would agree that he is at best a troll, at medium a super-in-denial victim of Schefren (or his associates), and at worst one of the most terrible and confused people to comment here.
        Or maybe he is Schefren himself, which makes him sort of all of the above!

        1. @fs,

          You’re absolutely right, it’s impossible to believe a grown man could be that ignorant but after reading the incoherent ramblings of Dunford, Cox, Navarro, Ray and so many others at this blog I know it’s sadly all too true.

          I think Schefren himself, or perhaps a close associate of his is likely his “secret identity”.

          1. @Barbara,

            I also think @John has some relationship to Rich Schefren that he’s not disclosing.

            The May 23 Procrastination Cure training had been over for three-and-a-half days when I said told @John it was unprofessional for it to still be up on May 27, and by May 29 the content DIVs had been changed to “class=’invisible.'” That seems like a half-ass way to handle it, like it wasn’t part of the plan all along. I’d say how I’d handle it, but I don’t want to provide any more constructive criticism.

            1. @Lanna,

              “I also think @John has some relationship to Rich Schefren that he’s not disclosing.”

              I thought about it, too. Or maybe it’s just that he’s a weirdo.

  26. Dear Fs,

    Nope, none of the above, just wanted to discuss it and I was bullshitted by Barbara and others, so I bullshitted her back because she sucks too much cock.

    Regards,

    John

  27. I mean, can you actually believe that someone would argue with you telling you that a sentence is not a sentence?

    Talk about desperate measures when you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Let’s see if I can make it clear by using different verbs for Barbara..

    Because something “appears” in a certain way you conclude.
    Because Barbara obfuscates in a certain way you fail.
    Because Lanna didn’t know companies do not register their DBA’s you guys look like idiots.

    Guys, you need to work on your arguments as you obviously do not like being made to look stupid.

    A somewhat interesting discussion turned into a discussion about the english language, but it looks like Barbara is the loser how her entire argument just imploded.

    .. Because something appears in a certain way you conclude.

  28. Dear Wyrd,

    I apologize for having to start a new thread. My browser does not seem to like the “reply” link on the posts here.

    Because I kick your ass you run. Make sense?

    Because the cat has fleas she scratches.

    Because you do not know how to debate you disappear.

    Again, it is as if there are no nouns in this sentence:

    Every good boy does fine while eating eggs and ham.

    Or the sky is not blue, it’s actually red.

    It is as if you are forgetting this was a reply to your post where you had mentioned something had “appeared” in a certain way, and you concluded without looking at all the facts.

    Facts that would damage your case.

    I think I made myself clear the first time as that one sentence called you out and there is obviously no place to go now except ad hominem.

    1. Dear John, (that gets funnier every time I write it)

      I think I made myself clear the first time as that one sentence called you out and there is obviously no place to go now except ad hominem.

      No place to go? “You don’t know where I’ve been, Lou!” But seriously–you say there’s no place to go but ad hominem? You forgot about ad absurdism. And there’s always room for Jello.

      What I’m trying to say is:

      You are not the first, nor shall you be the last, to come here and say things and think that the things that you say constitute proof just because you said them assertively and didn’t use colons.

      You’re in the very unwelcome position of trying to defend Rich Schefren’s VSP (Very Shitty Page–it’s just like Micro$oft’s ASP–except different!).

      As long as you are defending Rich Schefren and his VSP, I find it virtually impossible, to take you seriously. His page is crap. He wants to convince people that he and he alone has all the answers. That smacks of guru-ism and selfish help garbage/mumbo-jumbo.

      And just so we’re crystal clear ::: :: : I don’t care a pair of fetid dingos’ kidneys if you take me seriously or not. Seriously.

      Because you do not know how to debate you disappear.

      Oh come now. From our exchanges here, I think we’ve both shown ourselves to be MASTER(de)BATORS.

      Maybe next we can spend oodles of time debating which is the best breakfast cereal. Personally, I prefer something sweet. Although there is something to be said for multi-bran Chex.


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  29. Dear Lanna,

    There it is! Excellent work Lanna. So I suppose he is no longer a “Liar” but a wholesale buyer! :)

    As you can see, “painting” someone who is not the best example can be dangerous. It forces you to spend more time in an area that can be easily debunked.

    We have seen this with the 911 truth conspiracies. Some of them are entirely ridiculous and therefore the investigation into such things backfires.

    If we want more traction, I believe it is best to focus in areas where there will be no debate. Upon further research, I have found some egregious examples in this “underworld” and perhaps those may be a better focus where we would not get any resistance.

    I do appreciate your professionalism in your last message. I am here to help and perhaps next time you will slay these gurus!

    Dear Wyrd,

    I respect your humor! And your debate is rather stimulating.

    I do not have any proof, I have doubt in your argument. I asked Jack for proof and none was presented. To make matters worse, I was given fabrications and sent on a wild goose chase. I think all you and others here have is doubt as well.

    The issue was the conclusion which is soley opinion in disguise of fact.

    Thank you for acknowledging our debate and showing your respect.

    Sincerely,

    John Howitzer

    1. @John,

      It doesn’t change my points about Schefren’s sales and signup pages, my doubt that he has $97 worth of wisdom about getting stuff done, the logic errors in his Google keywords claims, or the dirtballs whose testimonials he uses. I know, I know, you refute all that, but I have yet to see any facts or examples proving your points.

      What this does show is that affiliate Mark Platt can’t get the details right when pimping Rich Schefren and Pete Williams’ ProfitHacks. Platt’s site is where I got the faulty company name that led to a dead end.

      It also puts a different spin on Schefren’s claims of “rescuing” “the family store” “from closure.”

      From Schefren’s About Us page:

      The family store, located in Broadway in lower Manhattan, was ill-located and having difficulty competing with the larger stores located in malls.

      After rescuing the store from closure, and seeing it well into the black, Shefren returned to college to finish his degree before trying his hand as a hypnotherapist.

      Boo hoo hoo hoo! Daddy’s clothing resale shop in Soho was unprofitable and only being propped up by his $30 million global rag trade business.

      This is a familiar theme in Scamworld: Frame success in your parents’ already-successful business as rescuing your family.

      Rich Schefren did it at 22.

      Jessie Connors did it at 16 – and then again at 22. At 16, she rescued her poor parents from living at her grandparents’ house by successfully marketing daddy’s chiropractic office. At 22, she rescued her poor parents from living in a mobile home by making big real estate moniez the Rich Dad way.

      Gary Vaynerchuk did it at 21. At least he’s honest in saying his parents were grossing $3 million a year when he launched WineLibrary.com in 1997, and the business grew to $45 million a year over eight years, by 2005. It’s awkward rescuing your parents from their own success!

      This is less for you, @John, and more for the lurkers who might give you credence.

      I have found some egregious examples in this “underworld” and perhaps those may be a better focus where we would not get any resistance.

      I’d love to see some real examples from you. Post ’em if got ’em.

  30. I think its SD better listen at John’s ideas or THIS site is no good at traction. Also, wtf? “We”? Must be about the editorial “we”

    1. @Jack,

      Salty could just pour some old-fashioned, nonclumping cat litter under the site, and then it would have plenty of traction.

    1. @Jack,

      I like the center one best. I needed some lady who’s being interviewed in a mall, with a waterfall and music in the background and horrible sound quality overall, to tell me to not be an amateur but be professional today!

  31. Dear Barbara,

    I am one person. You, Lanna, Wyrd, Jack, FS, SD, how many people are you and you can’t put me in my place intellectually and have to resort to name calling and false authority.

    You obviously opened up a can of worms when you obfuscated and asked me about my sentence which wasn’t even a sentence, it was more of a catch phrase.

    You are obviously psychotic and believe that any resistance to your strange propaganda MUST be the one who is being written about, there is NO way that anyone could “defend” it, etc.

    Guess what..

    I was curious as to what he did. What did he do? I asked.

    Lanna failed to provide PROOF.

    The store ended up being a true story.

    She then conveniently began a tirade against people who have family businesses for christ sake.

    I would seek some help. I do this full time and elsewhere am presented with irrefutable proof when discussing others. This is not a blog of that quality. I believe you must have a personal issue or bone to pick with these people.

    1. @John,

      You wrote

      I would seek some help. I do this full time and elsewhere am presented with irrefutable proof when discussing others. This is not a blog of that quality. I believe you must have a personal issue or bone to pick with these people.

      You say “I do this full time.” Presumably you mean that you question and doubt full time not that you seek help full time.

      If you, in fact, do this full time then how on Earth do you make a living at it? I doubt that you literally meant full time.

      I’d also like to see some proof of where you’ve elsewhere been “presented with irrefutable proof when discussing others.”


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @John, I made proof about the Sales Page. You said, “no, it’s not proof.” Reminds me about the The Rick Calvert’s Tacos. You said disclosure placement became magically “reasonable” when you decided it.

    3. @John,

      “I am one person. You, Lanna, Wyrd, Jack, FS, SD, how many people are you and you can’t put me in my place intellectually and have to resort to name calling and false authority.”

      You forgot to mention about the rhyming.

  32. Dear Lanna,

    The attorney that specializes in trusts and steals millions from his clients, the politicians that propose acts of violence upon US citizens, people who abuse the first Amendment such as the Westboro Baptist Church, Gurus that believe they are above others and abuse them (Such as your coverage of JAR) I cover such issues of ugly ness and I do not do it for profit. As I had said, I was not pleased with the complaints I found of such Stephen Pierce. But I do not appreciate the “gang” mentality and ignorance displayed by the others. I found Wyrd and yourself to be a cut above the rest. I would be open to more discussion perhaps in regards to the ones listed on the right of the home page. Thank you,

    John “big dick” Howitzer

    1. @John,

      There’s all kinds of horrible people in this world, but this site focuses narrowly on scam artists who promise financial or spiritual success. Usually these people buy or use PR to get themselves favorable appearances in the mainstream media, and the mainstream media usually do not question these people’s motives until it’s too late – until the FTC has already filed charges or people have died. By limiting his mission to calling out scammers, @SD is able to meet his goals single-robot-handedly.

      People like Rich Schefren, who exist on the fringes of Scamworld, need to be brought to task for lending legitimacy to outright scammers like Mike Filsaime and Stephen Pierce. You may not agree with my critique of Schefren’s marketing, but you don’t like what you’ve read about Stephen Pierce. How many people is Schefren feeding into the sick Stephen Pierce machine? Will Pierce’s rage lead to the next JAR-type-event? If @SD and us minions here can make one person consider Schefren’s recommendations and associations more carefully, we may have saved someone from financial ruin or worse.

    2. @John, You said,

      “Upon further research, I have found some egregious examples in this “underworld” and perhaps those may be a better focus where we would not get any resistance.”

      But then give us ideas about the NOT-related egregious examples like Westboro – except ones ALREADY found on THIS (SD) site (JAR, Pierce).

      Desperate much?

  33. Dear Lanna,

    You are very well spoken here. I must ask, why the thumbs down though. I appreciate your civilized and well put together rebuttal here, and I thank you for offering this insight! I have no problem with it. This is certainly a noble mission!

    This is also quite revealing, as you admit this is a matter of relationships and a very important word you used was “lending legitimacy” which is something I could understand is important when dealing with fraud.

    You do understand when I had initially asked Jack his opinion, perhaps it was not the best choice of mine to introduce myself that way.

    Back to the subject, you had mentioned these relationships earlier and I did find interest in them. From what I see it is not a “machine.” It is more like the wild west, individualist philosophy. Perhaps you & I have a disconnect, where you believe these smaller, more individual consultants to be on par with much bigger machines. And you would assume they were more collectivist when in reality they are the opposite; Individualists.

    Like in a community, the barber will allow the hardware store to advertise with flyers in their shop. You need to be careful that you pinpoint the actual persons behind endeavors and the extent of their dealings together.

    This I believe would help your cause as you may run into a problem like you did earlier. If I actually was this person, I would know a heck of alot more than I did and most likely have really made you look quite bad.

    But aside from my attempt at humor, (English is my second language) I hope I have not wriled up the bunch so to speak.

    Thanks for your time,

    John Howitzer

    1. @John,

      “From what I see it is not a “machine.” It is more like the wild west, individualist philosophy.”

      Underside of Rock…meet John.

      http://saltydroid.info/syndicate-shit-storm/ (wild west???)
      http://v3.jvnotifypro.com/account/ specifically used for organizing the cranking out of machine-fraud by “players”. (wild west???)

      Rich Schefren CHOSE (fact) who he can work with. They didn’t fall out from the sky. Lanna says he lends credibility over to them. It seems (SEEMS – a.k.a. SEEMS a.k.a. maybe fact) it was something like he picked them for lending credibilty to HIM in the “Internet Marketing” space.

      btw, this SD party sucks, we should get outa here. Better one down the street.

    2. @John,

      “You need to be careful that you pinpoint the actual persons behind endeavors and the extent of their dealings together.”

      Yeh, SD. WTF???

  34. I scrolled up and saw the image on the video with a man in a green ball-snuggie.

    I like that. Dunno if this is about a scam but I wanna see his snuggie.

    :)

    (troll) comment of the day

    smoochez

  35. in the next 60 days a new ‘VIRAL’ app is going to be released. How come it’s going to be viral? Cause we’re fucking psychic you stupid fuck

    power of getting in early = the few suckers who might get some money back in the ponzi

    anthony morrison says – you are an idiot, don’t be an idiot you stupid idiot. gimme your fucking money!

    was wondering when the name jonathan budd would show up on SD again. He’s more than just a mike dullard monkey boy. Also see JB’s own up and coming mentee matt lloyd, not on SD radar yet. Maybe scammers have to scam a certain amount of money first to get attention? Won’t be much longer.

  36. Hello again Jack,

    It’s good to be back! I hope you had a fine weekend.

    I have taken a look at your links and will continue to research this issue this week.

    I will report back to you guys, I will probably want to run some things by you if that is ok.

    I did have one immediate question. What is the worst case scenario that a client will experience with one of these individuals? I can then look for certain keywords.

    Thank you !

    John

    1. @John,
      in your ‘research,’ might I suggest you read the archives of the fucking website you’re on right now. listen to me. You are completely misguided about what is going on here. we are just commenters and supporters. the salty droid aka jason jones has amassed a near definitive wealth of information, exposé, and interpretation of the world of modern scamming, going back 3 years. every article is full of more primary source, fact-checked data than almost any pseudo-journalistic blog/magazine/rag you will ever find. and don’t even start about the old tagline, or how he is ‘one sided’ or something. read the site. it’s facts and figures, direct emails, interviews, audio, video, screenshots, chat logs, essays from people who were on the inside and made it out, etc etc etc.

      if you read this website for a few solid days you would realize how naive you have been in your first posts here. for example, the idea that Schefrens ‘associations’ are analogous to a hardware store flyer in a barbershop (!). if you read through the articles about ‘the syndicate’ (and pretty much ANY OTHER target of SD), you would know beyond any doubt that Affiliate marketing in this world is COLLUSION, with fake testamonials, price fixing, with the intent to manipulate, gain trust, and then exploit and fleece decent people for all they’re worth.

      anyway, save yourself, and all of us, some trouble. read though the archives of saltydroid.info and stop acting like the nice people that comment here owe you something,

    2. @John,

      Hah! What @Anonymous said. But I already put together some links, mostly to the Droid’s articles here (meticulously researched by Jason) plus two or three to outside sources, organized around the possible outcomes of death, sexual assault and/or financial ruin.

      As you know, James Arthur Ray was found guilty of negligent homicide in the sweat-lodge deaths of James Shore, Liz Neuman and Kirby Brown. Colleen Conaway also died while participating in one of Ray’s events.

      Thankfully I don’t have any definite cases to point you toward, but anecdotally talk of suicidal ideation is common among victims.

      There are also scammer deaths, as in the case of Don Lapre.

      The police reports alleging sexual assault by Leonard Coldwell make his case probably the best-documented, but there’s an undercurrent of sexual manipulation that prompts questions like Kelly’s about “the women of Don Lapre.”

      Financial ruin is likely the most frequent outcome. Trying to leave an income source for his family, injured lawyer Richard Joseph lost $20,000 he paid to John Raygoza’s PushTraffic boiler room and hasn’t been able to get it back despite a lawsuit. Raygoza also scammed a long list of other people, often elderly or with disabilities, out of as much as $55,000. When Douglas M. pursued a refund, he was accused of “extortion, defamation, slander, and conspiracy.”

      Another boiler room, PMI, scammed divorced, 56-year-old secretary Debbie out of around $10,000, nearly half her annual salary of $26,000. They got Debbie’s name when she bought a book off a late-night infomercial starring “Chicken Soup for the Soul” co-author Mark Victor Hansen.

      Scam victims aren’t the only victims. Scammers are shitty human beings, and being around them can put you at risk.

      A manager at boiler room Prosper allegedly waterboarded an employee. In January 2012 PushTraffic’s Raygoza was charged with “kidnapping with intent to ransom or extort” and a bunch of related stuff. I already pointed you to Stephen Pierce’s text message to his ex-wife, and you said you found worse about him on the internet. I have to begrudgingly admit that @Professor Z has correctly brought up Paulie Sabol, who was convicted in 1995 in Porter County, Indiana, of molesting a child under 12 years old. He’s currently a noncompliant registered sex offender against children.

      These are all representative of the general themes of Scamworld. I’m sure you can find more examples.

  37. Lanna, you are awesome!

    And yes, I do enjoy the articles, but I cannot denounce the theme of “Be your own boss” and “Online Business” education, these themes are far too important in our day & age to confuse with such scams as you mention.

    I think this is where we disagree, as Mike Filsaime or Rich Schefren is obviously not JAR or the others you mention. And if they are, provide the proof or complaints, they would be in public.

    Anonymous had stated “you would know beyond any doubt that Affiliate marketing in this world is COLLUSION, with fake testamonials, price fixing, with the intent to manipulate, gain trust, and then exploit and fleece decent people for all they’re worth.”

    I would like to see an example of a fake testimonial.

    It seems that you take these extreme examples and assume everyone behaves like this.

    Jack, you had posted links to boards and notice shops that are in PUBLIC.

    You need to find better sources, This site is a showcase, not even on Infowars are you asked to rely soley on it.

    1. @John,

      “Mike Filsaime or Rich Schefren is obviously not JAR or the others you mention. And if they are, provide the proof or complaints, they would be in public.”

      OMG. Now I think it’s this guy is a shill for sure. Wow.

    2. @John,

      “You need to find better sources”

      Why not go to show us the fantastic(al) investigative journalism you told us all about.

      “I cover such issues of ugly ness and I do not do it for profit.”

      Where? Proof? We can then see how awesome sources are like.

  38. Hello Jack,

    I have gone through your links, one was a public board and the other was an article on this “Andy” who upon further research, is a genuine filmmaker. This is why it is difficult to put your claims of the others into perspective. You use all the same egregious examples that everyone else does. It’s really quite exhausting.

    Perhaps you could answer me this question, if you were to look for “Online business” instruction or coaching, who do you hire? This is a demand, one that if you were to make this trade illegal the consumers would rally in the streets. You do not see the importance in this trade?

    Who would I study with if there were none of these outlets?

    Thanks again,

    John

    1. @John,

      Dude you know what, just follow these guys. Just remember to come back here when you have been fucked in the ass, so that you can become our emblem.

      1. @Eric,

        Just remember to come back here when you have been fucked in the ass, so that you can become our emblem.

        lol. No, please. Can’t we have a non-ass fuck themed emblem? I’m not sure it would send the right message. It would be very funny though.

    2. @John,

      * Aaron Wall – SEOBook
      * Marketing Experiments (despite some issues with some people they went about promoting).
      http://www.marketingexperiments.com/training-items/fundamentals-of-online-testing-omni.html will help you to understand about how completely fake and wrong guru’s like John Reese’s idea of “split-testing” are.
      * Jerry West (despite his fake “farewell” from Stompernet) who tests on over 800 domains and won’t be afraid to talk about grey-hat and blackhat and what’s really going on and about seo-wise.
      * Ed Nash’s Direct Marketing for you to use again as a GURU B.S. detector (even though the book isn’t really about the fake “Internet Marketing” ideas.
      * Andrew Goodman from the http://www.pagezero.com/ place.

      There can be many more for you, but probably you just want to go study with people who are filmmakers even if it has nothing to do with anything.

      1. @Jack (and anyone else who knows these things)

        This morning I learned that my good friend, a brick-and-mortar small-business owner, has fallen into the clutches of a “marketing guru”. The best way of approaching the situation I can think of is to buy her a few good marketing books, and hope to work from there by comparing and contrasting with the current frauduct peddler.

        Are there any books that are fairly recent, with the digital aspect included, that are reputable? I’d like to get her 3-4, ideally. (Already have Ogilvy and Ed Nash in my sights.)

    3. @John,

      “I have gone through your links, one was a public board and the other was an article on this “Andy” who upon further research, is a genuine filmmaker.”

      Well, I guess that one settles that one now then…

      http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3273064/resume
      http://behindmlm.com/companies/wealth-masters-international/wmi-launches-wealthjournals-com-but-why/
      http://behindmlm.com/companies/wealth-masters-international/norway-gaming-board-release-damning-assessment-of-wmi/

      …maybe you can look up “Liberty League” too and find out more.

      1. @Lanna, Have you ever seen the Fake CNN reports Alex Jones aired?
        Why would CNN do something so stupid?

        Why arent anyone talking about all the kids in child protective services that have been molested and leave with STD’s, Kids raped in Foster care, etc… This was done by Geraldo Rivera years ago ( investigative reporting ) no mainstream news media wants to touch these topics at all.

        Why don’t they speak about some of the topics found in WikiLeaks? or AIPAC being cunt faced bitches?

        Mainstream news are loosing listeners and its not going to Jones, it’s going to places like Democracy Now, Young Turks, and Internet Radio.

        Maybe Jones is popular because there is a huge lack of trust in the American Govt. when we have lobbies in Washington so powerful, the people don’t mean shit anymore.

    1. @Hello!,

      Alex Jones is not a bad dude. Not based on the topics he has and if you have never seen MAAFA- watch it and it will blow your mind. This video is not a conspiracy, it’s pretty much based on the early part of the 20th Century and forced sterilization of women and young girls.

      The video cost me 5 Bucks, but the thing is he will tell you to take his videos and make multiple copies to give away. Even his Documentaries.

      A. Jones can aggravate me only because the biggest issues facing the U.S. are topics that are considered “Third Rail Topics”. The other one is when he speaks about American being unified in a cause to stop our 4th amendment rights being taken away, he has to remember the huge focus he puts on the founding fathers of
      the 13 colonies, is not a way to unify the people. ( maybe I should write him an email.) Minorities wont be drawn to this kind of speech.

      If there is a person making money off of a segment of the population to spread a message, I would not call it a scam or some type of con. He started this before there was even a place to spread it out- he did this on the radio and got fired :/

      Stop looking for witch hunts, because there is too many things out there going on right now that are being missed. Don’t make this website a place like SALEM.

      If you want to know where a lot of the leeching is happening, look into how big websites ( webmasters ) steal from Affiliate Marketers. Reason it is difficult to make money online is because Companies allow Webmasters to steal from broke Marketers and do nothing even though it is against FTC Policy. People go to prison for this.

      Look into how SEO companies are allowing their members to send bots to our websites and spy on other peoples work.

      Learn about how when this happens Affiliates feel like all their articles cannot get web traffic and they look for a way out, by buying a shit product and then buy a scam. They think the product will help them pay their mortgages and feed their families and they loose all over again.

      There is too much shit out here to even name here. Don’t attack people who are fighting for our freedom to speak on or offline, because they sell cheap DVD’s

      Maybe a DVD needs to be created to teach weak ass people not to give in to make money while u sleep programs and stop looking got a easy way to money, and actually use your creativity and not a magic bullet.

  39. I love the “guesstimates” and the “guesses” in this article, it really makes it it’s own “conspiracy” doesn’t it.

    Also this sentence:

    (Jones actually uses networks like Google AdWords, so he gets paid per click, so we’ll call this his “effective” CPM.)

    Hahahahahaha

    1. @Elaine B.,

      It looks to me like Yahoo are just copying off of the NYT article that Jack mentioned:

      http://saltydroid.info/swallowing-johnson/#comment-109226

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/business/in-utah-a-local-hero-accused.html?pagewanted=all

      I didn’t so much care for the NYT article. I don’t feel that the writer was sufficiently antagonistic towards the subject.

      JJ might have done some hella selfless stuff in Haiti. Or not. Or whatever. It’s exceedingly difficult to listen to him talking to John Swallow and not recognize that here is a hardcore manipulator dancing the dance of let’s-get-Swallow-to-say-something-incriminating. Also there’s the secretly recording conversation part.

      What next–someome tries to explain how, really, JJ was just trying to expose the corrupt AG for the greater good? Yes. Probably that is what someone will try to say next or probably JJ’s plans were something like that at the time he recorded. Life doesn’t always follow one’s plans though.

      The NYT article author needs to buy a clue and fast. All those facts staring at them and still it’s all “allegedly” this and “according to the FTC” that and “oh but the humanity of that humanitarian JJ!!!” (some of the preceeding not actual literal quotes)


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  40. he’s only 37?
    he sure looks much older and stressed for 37. Could he have a guilty conscience down there somewhere or is the dorian grey effect backfiring on him? All that fast living gives him a ridden hard and put away wet look.

  41. Got a tip from a reader that members of Rippln may be randomly (involuntarily?) joining “GVO”, some sort of web hosting deal (clone of Empowered?) from Jonathan Budd, which may be a reboot of an older scam called “freeblogfactory” which ain’t free.

    I’ll check it out from my angle, wonder if someone else has something to add.

  42. In the apology video Underwood claims the Rippln Communicator will be launched tomorrow, 15-OCT-2013. However, there’s rumors that the project is on indefinite hold, that they had to hire some new contractor to do a full rewrite. Updates on behindmlm.

    1. @K. Chang,

      Yeah. Apology videos.. That’s a category.

      there should be a special topic section for scammers’ apology videos. I’ve seen a couple here and there. They get harder to watch the longer I’m here. It all blurs together.

      They have a technique (similar to their overall sales/scam technique) where they say “sorry” in on heartbeat, but then have somehow turned that into 1) blaming the failure on someone else and 2) playing the victim in the next heartbeat.

      Even without having seen it, I bet Underwood apologizes for “Rippln Communicator” ‘s vapor-ware-ness, but then makes sure that the actual blame goes to someone/something else, and that therefore Underwood, Rippln, and all those faithful subscribers are really just victims. And then I bet Underwood gets really enthusiastic about how after the re-write Communicator’s* gonna be bigger than the microchip and better than sliced bread.

      amiright?

      * “Communicator”… seriously? in 2013? Netscape Communicator was new in 1997. Ripplin be trippin’.


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @K. Chang,

      Sorry I misread a bit there. I didn’t see that you were saying that the full re-write is just a (probably true) rumor instead of an admitted part of the apology.

  43. Came across this today. Facebook, Twitter and er, who?

    It’s now April 2014 and this has gone the way of Blackberry.

    Thanks to the Droid, we can avoid similar in the future.

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