Ed Dale’s Bankruptcy Challenge


Ed Dale is the Underachiever {dot com} :: or if you prefer … he’s the Tubby Nerd. Both of his nom de plumes attempt at conspicuous self-deprecation :: but end up as self-aggrandizement … due to the pathetic condition of Ed Dale’s temporal realities.

“Underachiever” wrongly implies that at least something has been achieved. And while “tubby” is clearly true enough :: being a “nerd” requires more than buying an iPad and using Facebook to rip off a bunch of grannies.

I’m thinking something like UnderTubby would be more accurate :: more descriptive … and more fun.

UnderTubby got his start in Internet Marketing by sidling up to Irwin Frank Kern. Kern had just finished giving all his money to the FTC :: and he needed some mores … so he and Dale released the Underachiever Method. A frauduct that disappointed anyone with any reasonable expectations. UnderTubby’s primary selling platform :: the 30 Day Challenge … oozed up from remains of the Underachiever Method. 

The 30 Day Challenge is one of the most unique marketing experiences on the entire internet. Here you will have the opportunity to join a tightly bound community that will encourage and assist you in creating a niche product that you can sell to insanely passionate people.

You will learn to identify a hot market, and sell them exactly what they want. Follow along with Ed Dale and Frank Kern as they teach you the ropes of finding, creating, and selling niche products online.

Let’s preserve the great community we have and all work together for mutual gain.

But Frank was never much a part of it {cause he was busy growing out his hair and his syndicate} :: the tubby bridesmaid had to peel himself off … and go it alone.

30 Day Challenge came to be billed as place where noobs could dip their toes into the Internet Marketing waters :: and get a taste of some of them sweet monies … without spending any of their own money.

We hate get rich quick, this is not what the Thirty Day Challenge is about. This is about creating a brilliant business one step at time – slowly and surely. Putting in effort as opposed to cash. So that people have a chance to doing something online without getting exploited by bastards who take a couple of grand from you and teach you something that could never work.


The 30 Day Challenge’s free educational awesomeness consists of Edward Wells Dale talking :: all puffy faced and shit … into a webcam ad infinitum. Web 2.0 :: tweets … the works. Just a little service that UnderTubby is providing to humanity :: supported {of course} by selling expensive membership programs :: expensive seminars … and expensive affiliate offers from “bastards who take a couple of grand from you and teach you something that could never work.”

That’s how Ed Dale makes his motherfucking money online :: and you can too!

But if buying a bunch of fucking crap so that Ed Dale can get paid hasn’t yet led you to Frank Kern type riches :: then mayhaps you need some of Ed’s personal $5000 one-on-one mentoring …

The program’s been discounted from $10,000 :: so that’s why Ed didn’t feel like he needed to put on a clean shirt. He’s standing in front of a television slideshowing pics of his children :: explaining how Internet Marketing is all about who you know. If you pay to know Ed Dale :: then you’ll know Ed Dale … so how could you fail?

But don’t get too excited :: because as the 30 Day Challenge earnings disclaimer clearly SHOUTS …


In 2010 UnderTubby decided that the 30 Day Challenge’s not typical success had been so successful :: it needed to be “taken public.” As a public company :: Dale reasoned :: 30DC could raise money from investors … and then use stock instead of cash to buy up other successful web companies. It’s an easy win-win :: and it only sounds stupidly simplistic :: because – it – is.

You don’t have to be following me very long to realise I have pretty much zero unique ideas. My inspiration in thinking about the value of business is Warren Buffett. The general public think of him as a great stock picker – it’s simply not true – he is a BRILLIANT buyer of wonderful businesses. He identifies great profitable businesses and buys them – he grew Berkshire Hathway by buying great businesses and adding them to his portfolio…

If you buy with just cash – you’re limited to what you do before the money runs out!!

Yeah that totally sounds like something Warren Buffett would say. Leverage yourself up to the tits :: dilute your shareholders down to zero … and buy yourself the motherfucking boat you deserve!

This quest to “go public” and sucker in investors has Ed Dale trying to do official SEC-type reporting with his silly fake IM company … and the results are quite humorous and revealing. Somehow the sexy unicorn je ne sais quoi of the Internet lifestyle is lost when translated into the language of standard accounting …

As of June 30, 2011, the Company has a working capital deficit of approximately $1,644,000 and has accumulated losses of approximately $2,768,000 since its inception. Its ability to continue as a going concern is dependent upon the ability of the Company to obtain the necessary financing to meet its obligations and pay its liabilities arising from normal business operations when they come due and upon attaining profitable operations.

I’m surprised they aren’t doing better when they’ve cornered the market on the cutting edge …

Immediate charges subscribers $97 per month for its flagship product the Immediate Edge which includes information on topics like social bookmarking, web 2.0, Facebook marketing and Twitter strategies.

Your Immediate Edge in social bookmarking.

30DC isn’t profitable :: or viable in any fashion … but at least investors don’t have to worry about the competition. As Ed Dale explains to the SEC in the “competition” section of his annual report …

While some general education companies offer courses in Internet marketing, 30DC’s primary competition comes from small Internet marking companies focused on building a loyal following of customers. 30DC has built relationships with a number of its competitors whereby they cross promote each other’s offerings which sometimes overlap and sometimes cover different aspects of Internet marketing.

We’ve taken the competition out of competition :: it was too competitive. And to increase our strategic advantage :: we’ve told the SEC about it … in writing.

In 2010 the company paid Ed Dale $750,000 in salary and bonuses for his services as that tubby guy who wears dirty shirts and talks into a webcam about social bookmarking the twitters. In 2011 UnderTubby was paid $350,000. Everybody else is getting screwed :: but at least Ed Dale is getting his.


Or is it?

A recent 30DC filing had an interesting disclosure …

In January 31, 2013, Mr. Edward Wells Dale, the Board Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of 30DC, Inc. (“the Company”) was adjudicated in personal bankruptcy in Australia resulting from claims of personal creditors, which is the equivalent of involuntary bankruptcy in the United States.

Both the fake company :: and the fake man … are net fucking negatives to society. His IM success is quite typical … in that it’s totally illusory.

People paid huge money to learn to succeed like Ed Dale :: but Ed Dale hadn’t succeeded … even though he was willing to tell people that he had … and charge them for it.

I asked UnderTubby how we were supposed to trust him to teach us success now that we all know he ain’t had none for himself …

You’re spot on, I had in the past talked about my business success and used it in my marketing. Even though this situation has absolutely nothing to do with anything I’ve done in this business, it’s a massive blow to my credibility and the embarrassment I’ve put my family through because of it is something I’ll have to deal with for the rest of my life.

Please enjoy some tea and cake at your fucking pity party wanker :: but maybe it isn’t all about you?

30dc has seen fit to keep me on (which I’m really thankful for) and my focus going forward is MagCast, something we are all really proud of. I’ll continue to have an opinion on things that are going on in tech, marketing and stuff that interests me (Fully understanding the massive grain of salt people will apply)

… he says :: like as though $5000 “mentorships” are in the same rhetorical universe as “having an opinion” about Facebook.

Magcast is UnderTubby getting back to his roots in publishing :: where he has no roots. Magcast is an app that will help you publish your content to the iPad … where you can easily publish your content without using Magcast … and where people will not read your content unless you are wicked awesome … and lucky as fuck.

It’s $300 per month to be a Magcaster :: so you’ll prolly want to produce something of higher quality than {the bankrupt and unsuccessful} Ed Dale has been producing with it himself.

He’s Oprah in the same way that he’s Warren Buffett.

>> bleep bloop

229 thoughts on “Ed Dale’s Bankruptcy Challenge”

  1. From MagCast’s pricing page:

    App Revenue 100% YOURS!
    Extra Cost? NONE!

    From MagCast’s FAQ page:

    Apple only takes 30% like they do with all Apps on the Appstore.
    You’ll need to sign up as an Apple Developer which is $99 a year.

    Details are so hard! Maybe I’ll just report this to the Apple guys… I’m sure they wouldn’t mind someone is abusing their unpopular App Store no ones cares about.

  2. I’m loling over those SEC filings.

    It’s good to have you back, Salty. And thanks to Ed Dale for providing such excellent material.

    No thanks to Ed Dale for screwing who knows how much money out of who knows how many people though. You’re not a businessman, Ed, you’re a pitcher plant black hole. You convince people you’ve got the answers, then you eat all their money. That’s not good.

    And is this Ed’s debut article here on saltydroid.info? I know he’s shown up in association lists, but I’m thinking this is his first full article. Prior to this I only knew of Mr. Ed Dale via one of the saltydroid.info’s reader’s handles which is “@Ed Dale Scam”.

    So between the literally laughable SEC filings and his very own saltydroid article, I’d say Ed’s really moving up in the world. Now all he needs is one or two massive FTC judgements against him and he’ll be at Frank Kern’s “level”. (or does Ed already have judgments against him?)

    Furry cows moo and decompress.

  3. “The Company is planning joint venture arrangements with other marketing companies where each will promote the other’s products to their respective customer bases through custom webinars and bonus products specifically tailored to the target audie”

    Solid business plan! But I can’t know if it’s one that can work without Mike Merz – “JV Broker for the likes of John Reese, Frank Kern, Yanik Silver, Joe Vitale, Mark Joyner, Jason Potash” – involved.

    Probably Ed should just go on to find out about the Melford and Concetta Bibens machine that makes mass money traffic maybe somehow by the money-getting way of going to get “$1.65 EPC from a spam list who has no idea who the f*ck I am”.

    Also it’s the unfortunate news that mr. Merz because of his JV Brokering Terms might not go onto accept his buddy mr. Dale anymore because mr Merz has a good reputation to maintain all about the good, good people he helps make the product launches for, including but maybe not limited to:

    * Sean McAlister gets got
    * Ryan Deiss (as seen on The Salty Droid)
    * Jeff Johnson tubing the traffic
    * Anik Singal, Anik Singal, Anik Singal, (as seen on Salty Droid site, Anik Singal, Anik Singal, Anik Singal, Anik Singal (and Mike Filsaime), Anik Singal (this one tells us about the REAL story this time

    I think this one at mr. Merz’s JVNotifyPro is maybe just him copying Salty Droid categories/subjectories for the JV listing page.

    Best shot for mr. Dale might be to make one of the TBA products because so many people are making them it must mean about there being a big demand around the maketplace for that one.

    Anik Singal, Anik Singal, Anik Singal

  4. There is a sad repeat of history.

    Ed almost bankrupted himself with a magazine at the start of his career, and just got out by the skin of his teeth paying all back. So there is an irony in his second take on magazines coinciding with this.

    He says current probems were unrelated to the internet marketing business. If that is so he should make a statement on what happened to restore some of the credibility. He is clearly a visionary at some level. He pointed at both twitter and facebook as places that would grow leaps and bounds when both were barely beyond “cult status”

    Rightly or wrongly, I actually like the guy. He does not have either the malice or cynicism of those running utah boiler rooms.

      1. @Jack, Out of curiosity – do you know which year was that “ed dale shawn casey” headline? : the site only shows todays date? Over five years ago buying and selling websites could be a lucrative business before it got over hyped there were opportunities if you could find them – indeed there is no doubt that Ed Dale sold a group of sites for a couple of million way back then 2005/6 – but that has not been so for several years. It is now tough – a lot tougher than the flippa crowd try to make it sound.

        So whether or not that headline is misleading depends when it was. That headline is certainly disingenuous if it was in the last twelve months.

    1. @Disappointed… ::

      He doesn’t have any credibility to restore … that’s ridiculous. He’s EXACTLY as cynical and malicious as any boiler room butthole I know. All the money he’s spent this last decade has either been borrowed … or taken/stolen from the credulous in return for nothing but lies.

      And he’s a “visionary” for using Facebook and Twitter? Ha! Visionary bandwagon hopper … didn’t know that was a thing {cause it’s not}.

      Pull your fucking head out of the sand.

      1. @SD, Not true SD – the guy did have credibility based on what he did before he ever got involved in the “how to” arena
        He sold a web design business in the dotcom era which had already gained universities and banks and clients, he built a sports internet business in the UK, and went on to sell a group of sites for several million. Whether or not the corporate buyer was misguided is an open question, but since the earnings of those sites was personally guaranteed for several years it was certainly no scam.

        It was only at that point that he got involved in the teaching business. And at the time dominiche was launched the website buying and selling business was not fully priced and there were bargains to be had by knowing how to value the sites.

        There are enough examples of following through on their own advice in immediate edge (of which I confess to being a member) to know that what is preached works, although the 30DC model of business which worked for several years – to find find a market and SEO a site to capture those words has all but been killed by Panda and Penguin.

        So unlike many of those who you rightly condemn – who only make money by selling “how to make money” – at least Ed had been there and done it outside the “make money” niche , before presuming to teach others how which is not typical of the scammers or boiler room operators.

        I do not know what led to the present problems. 30DCinc from the records at least never appeared to follow through on its own mission statement to buy cash generative sites and reinvest profits. Presumably because the IPO was not managed well enough to raise the cash to invest leaving it as living dead.

        If I had to guess , and it would be pure guess I suspect he was over leveraged in property – in which at times he has declared a business interest – at the time of the 2008 crash and the empire has been teetering, the lack of liquidity of 30DCinc has reigned in his income, so now the empire has fallen.

        All of that is pure guess. But he has had a few successes along the way so is not a typical saltydroid target.

        1. @Disappointed ::

          So :: if he’s had previous real world success … then he’s just pretending at being a stupid and silly simpleton?

          Where/how did you hear about these successes? Can you provide me with some specific names and dates etc?

          Brad Fallon was a success at My Wedding Favors.
          Robert Kiyosaki had a rich dad and a poor dad.
          Dean Graziosi built an empire in real estate.
          Stephen Pierce is from the streets.
          James Arthur Ray trained as a shaman.

          … or not.

          1. @SD, I will see what i can dig up. Most of the story I heard from ED and those around him.

            But Brad fallon was never the main power behind MWF – and Pierce is one of the worst in my view :that has only ever seemingly made money by selling make money. Even his “fibonacci trading” or whatever it was the FTC squashed, he had no trading results! it was selling others on how to make money. And they are the real scammers, in my view.

            Ed is out of a different drawer. He seems to have had a love hate relationship with “internet business” and for a period after dotcom, certainly turned his back on it, and tried red brick business (eg coffee bars) and he has certainly been deep in property too.

            I don’t know for a fact what happened more recently.
            At the time 30DCinc went public , I got the distinct impression that they didnt raise nearly as much liquid capital as they hoped, and that could be why they never actually started buying cash rich sites, that could perhaps have allowed him to do the “warren buffet” type thing. A public company is greedy on cost, and I think that made it hard to progress: and also left 30DCinc without the capital to develop even the training sectors as far as they had in previous years.

            It might also be that the market for buying and selling sites is nothing like as good now as it was five years ago so they may have missed the window to do it- the guys at “experienced people” can tell you that.

            Go on salty – get an exclusive interview with Ed – get him to tell the story of what went wrong (other than 30DCinc – which he is probably barred from talking about because of insider rules)

            If I had to guess – It is a pure guess – his dealings in property which has featured in a few interviews from time to time left him over leveraged in the crash.

            If he owned a portfolio of sites built on the 30DC methods, then penguin will have hurt his income too, and the lack of liquidity of 30DCinc has cornered him.

            I have met him a few times, and I think he is a stand up guy. Guilty of over optimism and enthusiasm, and possibly as a result over exposure to some market forces, not a scammer in my humble view. But who knows? Ask him for an exclusive SD!!

            1. @Disappointed ::

              You can’t get an “exclusive” with a fucking nobody dude. But I quoted him up there :: that’s what he had to say … he answered none of my follow-ups.

              Ed is out of a different drawer.

              No … he isn’t. He’s just the one that’s got you.

              There are no clean drawers in this house.

            2. At the time 30DCinc went public , I got the distinct impression that they didnt raise nearly as much liquid capital as they hoped

              Good on the investors that passed.

              and that could be why they never actually started buying cash rich sites,

              What are those.

              that could perhaps have allowed him to do the “warren buffet” type thing

              lol @ Ed Dale ≡ Warren Buffet

              Guilty of over optimism and enthusiasm, and possibly as a result over exposure to some market forces, not a scammer in my humble view.

              That has the ring of, er, plausibility to it.

              But who knows? Ask him for an exclusive SD!!

              That would be good, however unlikely Dale would be to say yes.

              But I quoted him up there :: that’s what he had to say … he answered none of my follow-ups.

              SD gave it a shot.

        2. @Disappointed, If you’ve bought into Ed Dale the multi-millionaire businessman, then you’ve bought into his marketing PERSONA (which is a fancy phrase that people of his ilk use, when what they really mean is marketing LIE).

          Going back a few years, I was taken in by Ed and his cohorts. Until, that is, I decided to do a little research.

          There is exactly zero evidence that Ed has ever sold any businesses, let alone for millions of dollars. If you dig, and I mean really dig, all you’ll find written about him by anyone else is a cached article from the late 90s about a business venture in London going awry, and everyone ending up in court due to hundreds of thousands of dollars going missing.

          There’s nothing out there about Ed Dale to corroborate his “success” apart from what comes out of his own mouth.

          I also did a little research on one of his UK cronies, Dan Raine, who claims that he was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month by the time that he was 18 years old. How? By selling a guide on how to “become a male escort”…

          Dan is a little less skilled at covering his tracks. If you know where to look, you can track this super-successful guru to a dilapidated council house located in a run down neighbourhood near Manchester, UK. Either he chooses to be very frugal with his millions, or in fact he’s just another liar.

          I’m thinking the latter…

    2. @Disappointed…,

      He pointed at both twitter and facebook as places that would grow leaps and bounds when both were barely beyond “cult status”

      I’m not sure exactly when he began predicting this, but fair point if so.

      1. @Christoph Dollis,

        From memory – Both got a mention in either the 2006 or 2007 30 day challenge when neither had many users, and nobody in the conventional business world was using them back then. Also such as tumblr which at the time was a cult thing, now it is huge.

      2. @Christoph Dollis, Yes, he did say Twitter and Facebook was the next big thing. But, there was no genius behind his predication, he says this about almost every technology that comes about with any social element to it.

        I’ve also heard him predicate that Google Wave, Twitter lists, Google Plus, and FriendFeed were going to “massive”. I barely pay any attention to the guy, so I’m presuming he does this on a regular basis and when he accidentally gets one right spends the next 5 years tooting his own horn.

  5. You left out the most important part. Does UnderTubby offer Life Coaching and where do we sign up?

    If he’s even half as good as Tim Brownson, ( “A Daring Adventure”), then all the good spots will be taken soon.

  6. While Ed Dale harmed my life, I do not honestly know whether he was sincere in his desire to help people in his business or a sociopathic crook. I’m kind of stumped.

    The fact is, the 30DC, while it may have been useless for most, was a lot of info provided for free. (Yes, it was a loss leader. I get that.)

    But when he took his company public (I remember that), he had to know he would be subjecting himself to real-world legal scrutiny and real-market economics. He did so, and lost, and is hurt by it himself.

    Does he totally deserve it for intentionally trying to con people … or did he con himself about his abilities with overoptimism (which humans are prone to, SD notwithstanding — that’s a joke, not an attack)?

    I don’t know and I’ll probably never know unless more info is presented other than “his public business venture failed” (and a prior magazine venture failed, but he managed to pay his creditors back that time). That happens.

    I’m thoroughly convinced Ed Dale did more harm than good, and that I was one of those harmed, probably severely — although not only by him in the IM space. I am not yet convinced that he did this out of malice.

    1. @Christoph Dollis ::

      None of them can do it alone :: it’s the machine … or nothing.

      The “why” is all but moot :: cause what happened … happened.

      But “I’m throughly convinced” that it’s just the same ol’ sociopathic bullshit that is at the center of almost every post here.

      1. @SD,

        Yeah, that’s a fair point.

        I wasted more time and energy and emotion — neglecting something far more important especially in my personal life — on Mark Ling’s Affilorama, etc. than I did on Ed Dale’s 30DC … although it was mostly the two, with some Frank Kern and whatnot thrown in.

        But of them all, Mark Ling seemed the nicest and you rarely if ever hear a bad word about him. Almost all good.

        In fact, I still think a lot of what he had to say in his audios was very non-flashy and wise, at least ones where he was giving his own advice on work ethic, prioritising, etc. — the interviews were definitely a mixed bag, and that’s what you’re talking about, I believe. How they all promote each other.

        I still wonder about Mark Ling when IM comes up in my mind. Was and is he a pretty astute, decent guy and fairly knowledgeable teacher … or just very good at hiding his nature, as many sociopaths are?

        I don’t think the economics of the business work out in particular at least nowadays. On the other hand, Ling taught people to focus on niches other than IM for a long time before it dawned on him that that’s where the big money is at … he made is his early money in dog training niches, and such.

        So I DO think he made actual, real, good money in IM direct to consumers for a while — a legitimate business — but does it work now?

        I mean, of course you can make money online, at least as part of an integrated marketing strategy. You’d be nearly insane to be in business and NOT have online be a big part of your strategy. And most of the basic tools that are taught by “IMers” make sense, although their cost effectiveness may not match a particular business.

        But just selling info products about IM itself? That’s pretty much a pyramid.

        1. @Christoph Dollis ::

          “Mark Ling seemed the nicest and you rarely if ever hear a bad word about him.”

          Depends on who you know I guess.

          1. @SD,

            I ask because I am genuinely curious because that had a large impact on my life during a critical period; curious may be understating it. I would be very interested in learning more, here on your blog or in confidence, if and when you’re ready to share more.

        2. For the record, I think Mark Ling may gloss over the fact that competition for selling low-value affiliate info products is so huge that the vast majority of people will wipe out, but I do think he makes an effort to keep his info more or less current. I don’t like how he promotes dubious marketers’ products routinely though.

          1. @Christoph Dollis, Mark Ling is linked with and promotes all the worst, Frank Kern et al.

            The front affiliorama website has a whole load of mug shots of people with ‘sucksess’: either invented names, non-existant people, or wanabee successes who are in fact failures. Try and research or find anything about these people: they are just the invention of a scammy liar, or are inventions of themselves. What reputable website would have untraceable unverifiable testimonials on its front page.

            The problem with the affiliorama website is that it looks professional, and sucks people in: to waste time, money, and believe in unicorns.

            Mark Ling loves Clickbank: that cesspit of scam that encourages people to write and sell shit that is at best rubbish, and more typically is fraudulent.

            Mark Ling is an example of the problem writ large: his basic MO is to get thousands of people to be ‘trained’ to become affiliates of the affiliorama product as it will ‘make them rich’ – so the internet is awash with 250,000 false testimonial pages.

            This link is a discussion point:


            – where, kudos, comments have not been edited out.

            This response sums up some of it:

            “Thanks cterao, gradyp, cecille L and jmpruit for your feedback. With regard to USP – I am not sure that this makes sense in the context of affiliate marketing – you are after all not selling your own product but some one else’s product.

            Doing a search on Affiliorama on a search engine throws up 250,000 websites, mostly affilate sites, selling affiliorama products – it would look seem that selling ‘how to make money on the internet’ programs is the main affiliate income.

            I think it is unfair to imply that donald.ash.30 has not done enough or worked hard enough, or the website is not good enough, or has not followed the instructions well enough. Looks pretty good to me.

            I have looked at some of the Affiliorama videos, and the approach seems to be

            (a) select a need (ideally desperate)

            (b) write some copy to sell products that address that desperate need

            (c) even create a product that ostensibly addresses a desperate need

            (d) get testimonials for this product – paying for them is one method reccomended (NB this would mean that the testimonials were not really valid)

            People will pay for these products because the whole shooting match is very convincing. But the collateral damage is that very large numbers of people waste great amounts of money.

            Have a look at this very interesting piece by the UK BBC – http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 … ires_Club/

            I think it gives a balanced picture, and talks to some of the victims who are chasing the dreams”

            …and after being given invalid essays of objection back, that same commenter observed:

            “There was one question in your feedback, which I will answer:

            Which Affilorama videos are you referring to? I have yet to see an Affilorama video where we show that the best way to select a niche is to base it on desperation. Which testimonials and which product are you referring to?

            Mark Ling held a discussion on a money making website that he created about bettafish that generated about 300 NZ dollars a month, and on that discussion Mark flagged the ‘desperate need’ approach and also explained how he paid for the testimonials on the website. Ask Mark and he should confirm that this is the case. The bettafish website might have been the site that lead Mark onto the internet training path. But I have heard the desperate need emphasised in more than one place – I thought it was accepted by IMs that that was where efforts should be focussed. ”

            Affiliate marketing, for the very great part, is a scammy business. Mark Ling is just one of the bottom feeders taking money, wasting time, offering no value, conning and causing harm to people.

            That’s my view.

            1. @Random stuff, Well, probably the good thing about mr. Ling is he wouldn’t go about promoting $1,000 products onto some newbies maybe unless he can get good commissions off of them…


              “If you’re just getting started in online marketing, there’s probably been a time that you just wished you could get your first site done for you – just so you can actually see how it all works and fits together – and best of all, actually start seeing some money come in!

              Well, now you can!

              The guys over at Digibiz Pro are offering to build you your own online business. These guys are expert niche website builders, and now they’re offering you a virtual business-in-a-box that could either get you started in making money online, or compliment your existing websites.”

              Some later time from that time Mark Ling goes on to explain about that “Done For You” means more like:

              “My plan is simply to rebrand the graphics, rewrite the salescopy, get a writer to spend 2 days on each of the ebooks upgrading them, and put each one up on clickbank with 75% commission for each product. I might even do video salescopies for each product. Usually when I do this kind of thing for PLR rights products I don’t make a fortune, but usually at a minimum I’ll make $1500 per year per website. An example of one of my rebranded websites is http://www.stopheartburnfast.com (which bears no resemblance to the plr site I started with).

              For $997 to get 10 websites, I don’t expect the highest quality, but I do expect that it will be a very good starting point that will save me hours of time and that I will make a LOT more than my money back assuming I do my reworking of the content.”


              But I don’t know about why he doesn’t just spin the sales-letters for the ebooks like Jamie Lewis teaches about us doing here:

            2. @Random stuff,

              The problem with the affiliorama website is that it looks professional, and sucks people in: to waste time, money, and believe in unicorns.

              I agree essentially all of — and experienced most of — what you talked about.

              It hurt me greatly, including contributing to undermine that which was most important to me in my whole life. In most areas of life and epistemology (I’m sure you’ll know, but others might not: “knowledge”), I’ve been more skeptical than most. Here I was clearly not skeptical enough.

              I still don’t know if I will ever recover. It’s possible I will now, but I’ll never regain the thing which I loved which I lost.

          2. @Christoph Dollis,

            From your website there are links to Millionaire Mind – T. Harv Eker, testimonialised by Tony Robbins.

            Looks like just the same MO as Tony Robbins.

            If we hurry there is the

            MMI [Millionaire Mind Intensive – ouch!] – Houston – VIP Seating
            Remove April 26-28 – Admission to 3-day event – (regular price $1,295 USD) – Front Section Seating, plus Bonuses

            Then there are links to Dan Kenedy – but here is another one:


            Some Unicorns… or not?

            1. @Random stuff,

              I think a lot of T. Harv’s hype is overblown, but the basic principles in his book are rational. His book is reviewed here on “Get Rich Slowly” and I agree with the review in the main.

              The main universal problem I have with Robbins and similar “success” authors like Jack Canfield is their quasi-religious focus on “outcome visualisation”. Psychological studies show this doesn’t work, and common sense does too (if it were common).

              Carlon Haas, the blogger at Don’t Step in the Poop, a blog similar in many ways to Salty Droid, has a good article about it here:

              How to REALLY Use Visualization to Achieve Your Goals–No BS Secret Stuff Here

              His point is that top athletes and the like don’t get that way visualising themselves being handed trophies and having blonde trophy wives hanging off of their arms, and sure as hell not by visualising Ferraris — when they visualise, they visualise themselves doing THE WORK of their sport: such as making puts. Practising. Going to the gym.

              I’ve got a lot of other problems with Robbins, but that would be #1. Some people might be semi-inspired by his stuff, but that particular common bit of lore is harmful and counterproductive, and many of his other claims similarly counterscience — like his (former) diet beliefs, which made him sick after a while.

              As far as Dan Kennedy goes, and I’ve said that here on this site before including talking with the Droid, he may have endless moral problems and questionable business practices … yet some of his copywriting info is good, and I’ve benefitted from it. I bought like a $25 book and more than got my money’s worth.

              In fact, the greatest joy of my life in my personal life came as a direct result of that book.

              I don’t follow his career, but he did me no harm.

            2. @Random stuff,

              Also, for what it’s worth, the website is out of date and hasn’t been used by me for its primary purpose in years. I am considering reviving it or repurposing it.

        3. @Christoph Dollis,

          You said:’ still wonder about Mark Ling when IM comes up in my mind. Was and is he a pretty astute, decent guy and fairly knowledgeable teacher … or just very good at hiding his nature, as many sociopaths are?’

          If he had a money making idea then why the fuck would he waste his time teaching it instead of using it?

          That’s the part of the scam everyone overlooks…REAL business people don’t tell the world their great business ideas for $15 a month…they protect them with all their might and leverage them for all their worth.

          Ed dale is a CON MAN and Dan Raines is his accomplice

          1. @Shit storm,

            If he had a money making idea then why the fuck would he waste his time teaching it instead of using it?

            Well no, this isn’t really a valid argument. Some possibilities are:

            1. Scalability.

            2. A desire for a change.

            3. Additional income source.

            4. Social status.

            5. Even a genuine desire to help others.

            6. And of course, total sociopathic cynical fraud.

            They’re all possible.

            To use examples from other segments of the economy, it isn’t the case that every single professor teaching business and marketing courses or author writing books on same is unable to make any money in business or marketing.

            It might however have occurred to someone that acquiring 3,000,000 customers for writing one book is better than gaining 2 new ones a month making cold calls, even though they could still do that.

    2. Let me amend this portion of my comment:

      But when he took his company public (I remember that), he had to know he would be subjecting himself to real-world legal scrutiny and real-market economics. He did so, and lost, and is hurt by it himself.

      His reputation is hurt. That’s true. He’s also up 1.1 million in cumulative salary plus any stock profits.

  7. My highly-qualified defence of Ed Dale notwithstanding, this is a jaw-dropping filing to the SEC:

    30DC has built relationships with a number of its competitors whereby they cross promote each other’s offerings which sometimes overlap and sometimes cover different aspects of Internet marketing.

    It goes to support an earlier claim I made about the whole Herbalife kerfuffle: any plan relying on government regulators to do their job is folly.

  8. Ed Dale is as slimy as they come. The people standing up for him are his victims who have been drawn in by his aussie charm (and as an aussie, he has none).

    You should also check out Noble Samurai aka Alliance Software. Different companies but same people, same building. The more you know – Assange’s son works (or at least did if he has moved on) there.

    Ed Dale is part of a small knit group of people down under including the likes of James “scamko” Schramko (who preempts searches like james schramko scam by polluting the search results with pages about why he’s not a scammer), Darren “not a problogger but pro scammer” Rouse who we all know and hate, David “I use all my friends for testimonials while I play with my hands” Jennings. Few examples of Dave’s scamming..

    Ed Dale fraud testimonial for him –

    Brent Hodgeson from Market Samurai –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2icq8NWmS10 friends with Dave and Ed Dale, not a “customer” as claimed.

    Tim “my head is massive” Reid –

    Danny “pretend drummer” Batelic –


    – Also friends with Ed Dale and David Jennings so much so that he pimped their frauduct –

    Pete Williams aka Dave Jennings partner in love –

    Pete Williams and Dave Jennings tie in with Tim Reid and Tim Moulton who ties in with Flippa where even more scams are pulled.

    1. @notarobot,

      The people standing up for him are his victims who have been drawn in by his aussie charm

      That is a hypothesis that has crossed my mind.

      It also has in the context of (New Zealander) Mark Ling.

    2. @notarobot, your criticism of Dave would carry more weight if you actually spelt his name correctly!

      Dave has real bricks and mortar businesses which exist in the real world and are successful by providing a service to businesses eg marketing services, video creation etc. I believe he also has others which are unconnected to the online marketing world.

      I’m not sure why you are suggesting he sells “frauducts” – the ones I’ve personal experience of simply teach small businesses how to create videos, employ virtual staff and improve their online marketing – they’re not “get rich quick” schemes aimed at desperate people trying to make a living making money online.

      I’ve read this blog for years – the firepower should be directed at fraudsters – I’m wondering, are you a business competitor?

      1. @Lanky, he was selling frauducts aka hot dog business in a box crap long before he started his “B&M business” and who did he get to do the testimonials when he launched his SEO business?
        None other than the people above.

        Don’t you think he and the other should disclose their relationship? None of them pay to attend to seminars yet their testimonials make it seem like they just stumbled upon this great guy who helped them with their own business.

  9. At last the internet’s most disingenuous piece of work gets some SD treatment.

    Ed Dale is a very, very calculating man. Yes, he is a liar and a fraud, but like all dangerous romancers he is also capable of drumming up support amongst those who he claims he has helped. Crazy as it seems, there are people who have paid him large sums of money, seen no success of their own, but still support him and seek to silence anyone who challenges him.

    His fall is long overdue.

    1. @Ed Dale Scam,

      Crazy as it seems, there are people who have paid him large sums of money, seen no success of their own, but still support him and seek to silence anyone who challenges him.

      Like a church?

      Or a government?

      Humans are a strange bunch.

      1. @Christoph Dollis,

        Like a cult.

        Nobody discredit the great and powerful Oz!

        Or else you will awaken our own squashed-down-inside fears that maybe he isn’t great, he isn’t powerful, and those magic beans weren’t worth what we paid. To silence you and silence our own fears, we’ll praise him and threaten your self-identity as a member of our group. Obviously you’re not as committed as the rest of us. Obviously you’re still hung up on staying with your old group. The great and powerful Oz is so great and so powerful that he can’t waste time with small-minded people like you.

        Check out Sheeple Part 2 :: Conformity and Sheeple Part 3 :: Roles and Institutions if you have not done so already.

  10. My bullshit alarm was raised when I saw Ed Dale recommending that ‘challengers’ (as he calls them) sell their worthless sites on Flippa for quick cash.

    Reminded me of the painful experience of buying my first ever car. Perhaps the 30 day challenge was once based around building a second hand car business?

    Over time it became blindingly apparent that Dale had a similar ‘trade union’ with B and C teamers as outlined on SD. I even managed to obtain the phone number of one and discovered this trade unionist cut lawns for a living (now that’s what I call Taking Action).

    Many of the trade unionists appear to have worked on Dalesque products, with the carrot of a promotion for their own frauducts dangling in front of their snouts.

    For anyone in any doubt as to Dale’s character, consider this:

    He set up a public company, raised capital from investors, paid himself $750,000(!), ran the company into the ground and is now reportedly bankrupt.

    And you can now learn these secrets in a $5,000 mentoring program? No thanks. Sound nearly as bad as that Magcast piece of shit.

    There is little dount in my mind that Dale is very dishonest, very incompetent or some shade of the two.

    I wish no harm to Dale or his family but hope that the public steer clear of his products and similar online business hucksters and gnomes.

      1. @Christoph Dollis, same deal in Mining Companies. We used to float, pay the directors 3/4 of the proceeds as “management fees” and when the jar was empty, sell out a rights issue and do it all again.
        Couldn’t happen without the brokers tho …

        1. @Rick, Institutional fraud and fraud on minority shareholders is massive. Yet none of them seem to get brought to book.
          America seems to tolerate that kind of white collar crime. As witness none of the bankers were prosecuted in what was a clear conspiracy to defraud.

          As regards 30DCinc:It seems to me that “bonus” starved the company of the liquid funds needed to buy web properties to demonstrate to bigger investors that the business model could work. So it was a very short term thinking which seriously harmed the growth what might have otherwise been a good business long term.

          1. @Anonymous ::

            A good business long term? What business? Continuously diluting the shares of an unprofitable company in order to “purchase” other unprofitable companies?

            Because … no.

            A good long term business headed by a bankrupt and unsuccessful fool?

            Again … no.

  11. @SD,

    Some background as promised…

    This is an audio on ed’s background and early business life- interviewed by Kenny Goodman. http://www.kenny.co/interviews/interview-with-ed-dale

    Talks about the (failed) magazine – then successful web design business and sale (which eugene ware of market samurai left before cashing in!) – sport stats collection business and sale, disillusionment with corporate management – acting as investor in small businesses like coffee shops but disliking getting sucked in to practical running of them – starting to sell information – creating a network of sites and selling them as a going business – fuelling interest in buying and selling sites and the dominiche course – leading to underachievers – and the birth of 30DC as a free training course.

    On courses like dominiche I seem to remember repeated experiences referring to the selling of real estate and differences and similarities between selling virtual and real estate: so it is clear he was involved heavily in buying and selling real estate at some point, although I don’t have a reference for that.

    1. @Disappointed ::

      Yeah :: but … that’s my point exactly.

      You’re just taking him at his unconfirmed word {and then repeating it} :: which you absolutely should not. They all make up BS origin stories that can’t withstand the slightest hint of investigation.

    2. @Disappointed, I replied to one of your posts above regarding Ed Dale’s multi-millionaire persona. I don’t recommend trying to spend the time to verify any of his claims (as it is akin to trying to prove that the World is flat), but I can assure you that there is exactly zero evidence that Ed Dale has ever had any business success, yet there is evidence of plenty of shady dealings.

      If his various businesses had been acquired for circa $10 million, then you’d be able to find something (anything) written about it by someone other than himself. Not a press release, not a news snippet, nothing…

      If you want an easier case to work on, take a close look at Ed’s crony from the UK, Dan Raine. Given a couple of hours, you can drive a coach and horses through his particular BS back story….

  12. There is a rumor floating around that despite Bob Proctor saying in his latest sales video that he “Is rich”, that he or one of his companies declared bankruptcy recently.. Anyone able to research that one?

  13. “Would you like to make $20,000 / mo in passive income? Me too! And all you have to do is get a couple hundred of your buddies to buy my $97/month program… And I’ll show you how you can make the big bucks like me!”

  14. @Christopher Dollis

    Re http://saltydroid.info/ed-dale-30-day-challenge/#comment-106301

    Fair points.

    And I guess there are three types:

    1) People selling stuff that is there own work, or services based on well established principles, and is designed to provide value to the purchaser. All fine and well – and these people would not sell via “opportunity” platforms such as ClickBank, or have long sales letters with false testimonials.

    2) People selling stuff that is not really there own ‘work’ but simply information they have aggregated from elsewhere: nevertheless if some people benefit from it, and others are not harmed, knocked back a few steps, or sucked into a cycle of being used and effectively abused: then all is ok, provided there are no lies involved with the selling process.

    3)People selling stuff or ‘services’ that is sold to ‘benefit’ but in fact is purely designed to extract cash, and more cash, from the general public: and the more vulnerable the targets concerned better.

    There are some people who might not be a clear (2) or a clear (3). This site does a good job in identifying the clear (3)s.

    1. @Random stuff,

      “All fine and well – and these people would not sell via “opportunity” platforms such as ClickBank”

      Your points are good, except that I’ve actually bought some decent products from information producers, knowledgeable in their fields, that were for sale on the Clickbank marketplace — and even were advertised with long sales letters or video sales letters or what have you. As far as whether the testimonials were legit, I don’t know.

      I’ve bought other products that were on Clickbank that didn’t work out and had no problem returning them for my money back.

      I’ve never personally had a problem with Clickbank, to be honest. One thing I like about it is I’m pretty sure if I buy a product that’s on sale there, a refund request will be honoured. Another thing is I don’t have to give my credit card details to whomever information marketer.

    2. In general, when I buy a digital information product, it’s sometimes about something I really want to learn and the information is not that common (I have eclectic interests), so I’ll try out whatever few products on that topic are available (and this often works out to my benefit) … returning those that don’t provide what I want, keeping those that do. Sometimes the info will even be effective, as such, but I’ll have moral objections to some of the writers values and will return it for that reason. I’ve even explained that on occasion in my refund request directly to the information provider, and had the refund request processed without a hassle.

      More often, there are many people providing information in fields where there is a great deal of potential providers available. In that case, they usually provide free information also — such as a blog. I’ll evaluate the quality of their free information and if a particular subject-matter expert’s information resonates with me, I may well by their paid product.

      This very often works out well and even if the paid product doesn’t provide much new info, it’s often much better organised and easier to assimilate than 100s of blog posts and YouTube videos (especially since YouTube made browsing old videos much harder!).

      I really don’t feel taken advantage of when I buy information as a rule. I like information.

      The problem to me isn’t marketing or sales letters or information selling or markups or profit — I’m a fan of all those things.

      The problem is fraud, false claims, false testimonials, misleading pricing, and knowingly selling info to people who don’t have anything like the background or circumstances to reasonably be able to implement the info; and not everyone selling info is a fraudster — not at all.

      I actually believe there are good salespeople, for example, who look for qualified buyers and try to match their offerings to their customers’ goals. Sure, there’s a self-interest and a bias there, but I really do believe some sellers are actually trying to provide value to their customers. Does this mean every customer will benefit? Of course not. But some will benefit greatly, for example, my $25 purchase from Dan Kennedy (who I know is unpopular here and possibly for good reason) that provided me with so much joy that I would, even now, have chosen what I received over a million dollars — albeit that was hardly something I could have predicted going in and wasn’t really the main purpose of his book. It just worked out that way.

      But, and putting Dan Kennedy aside, for many sellers there’s a good-faith effort to provide value to the customer going on, even in the information sphere. Knowledge is potentially quite good! And I definitely believe business is too, if coming from the right place.

      Business isn’t the same as charity, but it can be a mutually beneficial exchange. Indeed, it usually is. Why we dislike the online scams and similarly suspect business models such as most MLMs is because they take advantage of most people’s experience with purchasing-transactions that are generally positive, and thus they end up believing the outlandish promises that are made … not realising that they’re not dealing with the reputation-dependent merchant down the street, they’re dealing with the move-on-to-the-next-mark sociopath at heart.

  15. Certainly an eye opener.

    It does not stop at the ridiculous bonuses sucking the liquidity and lifeblood out of 30 DC inc, leaving nothing to invest in the cash rich businesses suggested by the manifesto.

    He was also selling shares mid last year too , as the insider trading reports below show, apparently sucking another $few hundred K out of investors.


    Bankruptcy begs the question of what the administrator will do with the remaining holdings which may no longer owned by Marillion but by creditors instead.

    It seems that trading in TDCH from thin volume almost ceased after january 2013 and the price of TDCH has now collapsed as the result of one small sale in the last days or so yahoo finance says. Leaving the company essentially worthless with offer price 1c.


    A company which in principle had potential is hard to consider as other than destroyed by a systematic churn and burn – the company raped.

    On behalf of all investors who trusted you, thanks a bundle Ed. You owe it to all of them to explain what happened and why.

  16. It did not bode well from the start.

    The first actoins were to turn a high profile, highly promoted, hands on, thirty day challenge into a hands off apparently unpromoted automatic course. To close down challenge plus completely. To make no apparent investments in the cashflow businesses promised, the only apparent cashflow straight to ed dales back pocket.

    Since the auditors are getting twitchy about liquidity and going concern, and MagCast by itself does not sound of sufficient scale to plug the gap, the challenge no longer the force it was, it is hard to see what can stop the company collapsing for lack of funds.

    I doubt if a rights issue will succeed, I at least will not be putting good money after bad. If the company falls, I will be keeping a keen eye on who becomes the beneficiary of assets such as Macgast or Immediate Edge, taking a keen eye on whether dirty deals are done to return them to the previous owners.

    Maybe the new chairman has something to offer, but as a shareholder I have not seen a statement from him as yet. Bad. The lack of communication to shareholders or rallying statements does not bode well.

    1. @Anonymous investor ::

      The boding is indeed ill.

      If anyone still has the original fundraising pdf he was sending around to drum up funds :: I’d like have it for a collection of dumb stuff that I collect … like a crap menagerie.

      1. @SD, I think I saw about the PDF floating about somewhere, but for now it’s the IPO pre-launch via Aweber…

        “Ed Dale thirtydaychallenge@gmail.com via aweber.com

        to me
        This is a bit of an unusual e-mail from me.

        I want to step out of the day to day teaching of what we are doing and give you some insight on what we are thinking about and doing strategically.

        That’s a fancy pants way of saying I want to show you WHY we are doing what we are doing.

        It stems from a quote I read on Seth Godins blog earlier in the week that really got me thinking…

        “If you can show 1000 people how to make a million dollars, why not HIRE 1000 people and become a billionaire”

        Good Point.

        Or Is It.

        I shot the quote out on Twitter and got a few responses talking about how helping people is a good thing.

        (If you have been following the NINJA tweetdeck videos on 30dc PLUS you will know how to set up a search to see what people said about it…)


        I figured it was time to tell you – WHY we are doing what we are doing.

        You can watch the video on Youtube


        {inserted by me, Jack, for your convenience}:

        (Don’t forget to choose “watch in higher quality” if you have the bandwidth/option – it looks much prettier this way)


        We are currently in a “pre-IPO” fund raising round. There is the potential to be a part of this….


        The Rules about this differ in EVERY country – This sucks (actually it’s all designed to protect you from the myriad of scams that areout there).


        If your interested, understand that at this stage there are legally mandated requirements for minimum amounts ($10,000 US Dollars) and depending on where you are – legal requirements based on net worth
        – (Countries Like the UK, USA and Australia define these people as Sophisticated Investors – People who qualify as “sophisticated investors” tend to know what this is!)

        Make sure you watch the video


        and if your interested, send an email to


        Please include all relevant contact details (most importantly, a phone number – laws regarding this type of investment will mean that we will have to call and speak to you individually)

        Also note that there is an Information Memorandum available that will be supplied to qualified advisors and people that have sent us an email, we have spoken to and qualify to receive the document under your countries rules.

        Please don’t email if you know you don’t fit the above, there will be opportunities down the road to become a shareholder when we list on NASDAQ.

        Sorry, to go all legal on you but it’s crucial for your sake and ours that we do this by the book.


        PS Did you download those two lessons I sent out last week? I hops so – there was some really good info in those. I have to sat I’m learning a LOT about FACEBOOK now I can see the wood from the trees! Regards,

        Ed Dale
        Marillion Partnership



        This email is never sent without permission.

        You are receiving this email because you registered
        to participate in the Thirty Day Challenge

        If you no longer wish to receive these valuable
        emails from us, please see below.

        Marillion Partnership, 69 Ardmillan Road,
        Moonee Ponds, Victoria 3039, AUSTRALIA”

        1. @Jack,

          So Ed’s plan for getting sophisticated investors for pre-IPO funding was to send a poorly written email with a link to a poorly done video in which he drones on and on and name-drops Frank Kern (3:19), a man with an FTC judgement in his past?

          He also mentions becoming listed on a stock exchange (0:37, 11:55), but as far as I can tell 30DC, Inc. (TDCH) has always been an unlisted, OTC stock that trades on the pink sheets. Am I wrong about that?

          1. @Lanna, rather than going to the cost of listing a company on the exchange, they did a deal to buy an existing listed shell company whose name I forget, and reverse 30DCinc into it, changing name and ticker as they did. That explains the apparent discrepancy in the age of the company and listing as distinct from the business.

            There was a detailed and confidential memorandum, the basis of the mechanics of the decision to invest which is quite a substantial document. So it was much more than a video. In the end, however, like most investments in new companies, you are backing the man and belief in his abilities as much as the plan.

            I am actually inclined to believe, do not know for sure, that the investment raised far less capital than they hoped and expected, so the company was far less liquid than anticipated.

            I think that is self inflicted. I firmly believe that had they actually bought an online business(es) however small first, and showed how they could substantially enhance the income of it as a case history for the plan, the difference in investment would have been dramatic. I certainly would have gone in considerably deeper with proof and case histories. Proof goes a long way in the investment world.

            As it was it to outsiders it will have looked like a training company, rather than a fund of online cash generative assets, so I think that primarily is the reason it did not raise more capital and it has struggled since as the figures show. I think the business model was in principle sound. I own a number of sites personally that are returning the price of buying them in less than 12 months and have done that for several years. The market to buy them to me at least seems a lot more competititve than it was even 2-3 years ago.

            1. @Anonymous investor,

              I still am extremely, extremely skeptical of your belief that they would have been able to purchase websites and run them at a profit.

              I suspect they strongly doubted their ability to do this. Which is why they didn’t try.

            2. @Anonymous investor ::

              No :: it’s not listed … it was never listed … and it never could have been listed.

              In promo’s like the video above :: UnderTubby used listing on the NASDAQ as an enticement to attract private investment … but 30DC doesn’t come anywhere close to meeting the listing requirements.

              Check it out for your own selves …


              – $11 million in earnings from operations over the past three years
              – 3 year cash flow of $30 million
              – $100 million per year in revenue
              – $80 million in assets
              – 2200 shareholders holding shares worth at least $45 million


              He knew he couldn’t list on the NASDAQ :: but pretended like he was about to in order to take people’s money … which he then paid {mostly} to himself.

              It’s a blatant fraud IMO :: which is why it’s featuring here.

    2. @Anonymous investor,

      Saw some rumblings that they’re going to try to relaunch the Challenge this August. Last ditch attempt?

  17. The Ed Dale 30 Day Challenge Business Plan:

    1. Convince people (give them a cute name like ‘challengers’) Ed Dale cares about the well being of people in the challenge because he ‘challenges’ people to better their lives…be the whisper in the ‘challengers’ ear that says’ you can do it…ignore the haters and doubters…you deserve the best…fantasize about money and wealth’

    Action step – saturate them with webinars, blog posts, forum posts, videos pdf’s and bogus detailed instruction so they think their getting value…and Ed Dale is a guy you can trust

    2. Once ‘challengers’ are tricked into believing Ed is a caring trust worth guy…FUCK them over by selling bullshit products that have ZERO chance of working

    Action Step – USE any means necessary to get ‘challengers’ money…use anyone and everyone in this pursuit

    1. @Shit Storm, the trouble is that presumption which is typical of many in the internet marketing game is not consistent with the facts of the challenge.

      Without a shadow of doubt the (entirely free) 30DC methods for identifying keywords for market demand, and creating sites that gained top rankings worked a treat for several years, and gave me a score of top ranked sites in various niches. Until a nasty black animal launched by google called penguin made the entire process unpredictable. For a couple of years Ed has been foretelling that the SEO summer would end, and that market leadership on social media is becoming the critical activity.

      So it is not just smoke and mirrors and rehashed garbage sold for top dollar,like many of the other programs featured here. Results show that for many the methods worked. I cannot speak for others who are critical, I have no idea what they bought as affilated products or who from. Only once have I ever felt let down by something I bought on an Ed recommendation, and I have bought several things he has recommended. The in house stuff is good. Immediate edge as a higher end product is still full of useful contemporary stuff, of interest to internet marketers, because love him or hate him, Dan Raine is one of the shrewdest marketers around and is ahead of the game.

      So whilst I am not happy at all about the status or progress of 30DCinc I still do not put the 30DC, challenge as now is and related programmes anywhere near the scam bracket. I do not know what is to become of the challenge this year in the light of constraints of 30DCinc or in the need to revise it post penguin since reliance on SEO is too unreliable, but until last year I would have happily recommended the challenge to best friends. Only time will tell for 2013.

        1. @Jack,

          Oh man, that “Index of /” has me totally sold! Dan Raine is the king! {of suck-sess}.

      1. @anonymous investor, I completely agree with you apart from I’ve had value from everything I’ve bought from Ed Dale.
        I have an online marketing business [I sell marketing services to real businesses with a website] so for me Immediate Edge membership keeps me on the ball with the latest online marketing techniques which work.

        1. Lanky,

          I believe “anonymous investor” said that he did receive value from information provided by Ed Dale.

          Of course, his and your claims are impossible to verify without more data. That isn’t an attack, it’s just a fact.

          1. @Christoph Dollis, I think the distinction that Lanky tried to make, was he had no unsatisfactory experiences with products from the Ed Dale stable,

            where I had one bad experience out of a number of good ones.

            I should stress the unsatisfactory product was not one of the “in house products” but something that Ed recommended as affiliate and I bought on the strength of that – Interestingly it was from a guy who looms large in Salty’s hate list!

            1. @anonymous investor,

              Ah. Seen.

              One wonders if there’s any way to verify the claims that Ed Dale’s information products were high-quality, high-value.

              I’m not saying what follows is so — it would be pretty elaborate (however even I said Ed Dale is a smart guy) — but it would not be impossible to have a couple people comment, or use sockpuppets, and give some “damaging admission copy”-type criticism to Ed Dale (bad at running a public company, stock promotion, yada yada), but by g*d were his products good, except for one and that wasn’t even him exactly, just someone he recommended.

              And another guy comes on and says, “No, all the Ed Dale products I bought were great.”

              Am I saying that’s what’s happening? No. After all, I personally had a good experience with another marketer’s simple inexpensive product, a hard copy book bought in a regular bookstore, despite that marketer not being popular here.

              But there’s absolutely no empirical way one could discern your veracity without knowing what profitable websites or businesses you both ran, if any.

              Do you get my point? On one hand, we have SD putting Ed Dale on his public crap list, with SD’s repeated saying that basically the IM niche as such were pretty much all scammers and, “you can’t make money online.” On the other hand, we have Ed Dale responding sheepisly to SD’s initial email with a contrite, responsiblish-seeming statement, his reputation in tatters and stating his intention to rebuild his reputation, and a couple articulate people on the thread talking, anonymously, about how Ed Dale’s products were really the bees knees.

              You both could be entirely 100% legit.

        2. Anonymous Investor ::

          So it is not just smoke and mirrors and rehashed garbage sold for top dollar, like many of the other programs featured here.

          Yes :: that’s exactly what it is. And like all the other garbage programs featured here :: 30DC depends at its core … on promoting all the other garbage programs featured here.

          @Lanky ::

          I have an online marketing business [I sell marketing services to real businesses with a website] so for me Immediate Edge membership keeps me on the ball with the latest online marketing techniques which work.

          Well :: let’s see your fucking website then hotshot. I’ll decide for myself if it’s working for you or not. But let me guess :: you don’t want to show me … trying to keep all your super success a secret until you list on the NASDAQ?

      2. @anonymous investor, I can speak from experience here, as I was taken in by the 30 day challenge and have even been a member of the Immediate Edge (which thankfully lead to my wake up call that I’d been “Edged” up the garden path).

        Yes, the techniques in the 30 day challenge used to “work” for a tiny dribble of traffic. But it’s all about spam – yes, you used to be able to rank spam in Google. You can’t anymore, because nobody wants to read spam. If you’re engaging in what they teach, then you’re almost certainly engaging in spam and, lets face it, the rest of the world hates you.

        Regardless of whether it did or did not work, the morality of the whole thing is completely skewed.

        They encourage you to randomly scour the Internet for a topic that nobody else is writing about, so that you can position yourself as the go-to-source for information on that topic, even though it’s a topic that you know absolutely nothing about.

        What exactly is ok about that?

        Ponzi schemes work, but it does not make it OK to engage in them. Bank robberies work, but does that mean if I sell you a course on buying a gun and holding up your local branch that you’d sing my praises?

        There’s nothing of value in the Immediate Edge. Nothing at all.

        If you’re there for tips on SEO, all you’ll find is a load of outdated nonsense spam techniques. The forum is barely updated; I suppose that must be because all of the members there are out spending their quick-earned bucks that they’ve gain from their “Immediate Edge”. That, or they simply don’t exist.

        Going back to the question of morality, if you’re indeed a member of the Immediate Edge, go and check out their “blueprints”. The example they give involves building a “niche” site around information about an terrible condition (I forget which condition, but it may be dyslexia) and attempting to profit from it. Funnily enough, going to University and obtaining a license to practice medicine isn’t a part of their “blueprint”.

        1. @Pete Morris,
          what a great, well worded comment. it’s amazing how hard it is to articulate the nature of these scams, and why they are wrong. especially with the christoph dollis’s of the world blathering about how it’s all subjective grey area. I suppose the reason it’s difficult to explain is because confusion, manipulation and shame are the nature of the beast. hats off to you for having such perspective after going through all that.

        2. @fs, It’s cool, the money I spent during those times listening to online marketing gurus was actually money well spent.

          Not in the sense that they taught much of use, but in the sense that I can now recognise someone who is primarily a marketer a mile off. I can also see when I’m being sucked into a sales funnel that’s designed to leverage as much profit as possible rather than impart knowledge for a fair price.

          Knowing the scam is a handy skill to have, especially when you begin to realize the sheer volume of news and mainstream media that is centred purely around PR, and the launch of various products.

          I’m sure marketing can be a wonderful thing when done ethically, but in the “make money online” world it’s all about lying in order to sell an overpriced product.

          The scamworld seller is invariably all too aware that what they are selling does not represent anything like an equal exchange of value, and actively acknowledges that they are exploiting the psychological vulnerabilities of unhappy people.

          1. @Pete Morris,

            Thanks, really sums it up, and…

            The scamworld seller is invariably all too aware that what they are selling does not represent anything like an equal exchange of value, and actively acknowledges that they are exploiting the psychological vulnerabilities of unhappy people.

            is spot on.

  18. Love how the Ed Dale and Dan Raine fanboys are running to defend them with statements like…

    “I have an online marketing business [I sell marketing services to real businesses with a website] so for me Immediate Edge membership keeps me on the ball with the latest online marketing techniques which work.”

    How can people STILL defend these frauds even after the evidence is right in front of them? I suppose that what is actually happening is that Ed Dale and Dan Raine fanboys are coming in here and posting comments of support to try and put out this little fire. Yeah, good luck with that you muppets.

    Bottom line, if you have EVER given Ed Dale or Dan Raine ANY money (or support, or help or even kind thoughts) you’ve been scammed. They are cheap low life frauds who scam people for a living. That’s what they do.

    1. @Ed Dale Scam ::

      How can people STILL defend these frauds even after the evidence is right in front of them?

      The same way people fall for these frauds in the first place :: when the evidence is right in front of them … so I should think you could relate.

      People can’t really see evidence that is contrary to a position they’ve wrapped around their self-identity :: until they can.

      1. @SD, Yes, absolutely. They aren’t defending the fraud, they’re defending their own belief system. They’ve invested so much time and effort in believing what these people tell them, that their natural instinct to protect themselves is working against them; they’re subconsciously protecting themselves from the hurt that they’ll experience if they accept the proof that they’ve taken conned. Been there myself. Double think, but part of the process. They’ll come back here, and eventually see the scam for what it is.

    2. @Ed Dale Scam, Out of curiosity what did you buy? The one I bought on the strength of a recommendation which really was rehashed trash was one of the ones on Salty’s hate list, and once you discovered what the “system” was simple conversion calculations could easily prove it never had any chance of working. But it was not an inhouse product.

  19. I see Ed Dale hasn’t been deterred by the adverse publicity judging by today’s email bulletin….

    “We’ve been showing you for the past few days on what we
    really believe is the thing that is working best right now.

    We’ve shown you how to get content for your magazine for
    free (and quickly) and shown you how easy it is to put together.

    We want you to try this out without any risk to you.

    We are offering the unlimited $1997 licence (no monthly fees
    ever for your magazine!!) for the last time.

    This is a massive saving on the first year alone and you’ll
    never have to pay monthly fees for your MagCast!

    Prices for MagCast when we launch to the general public
    this summer will go up at least $1000 and will have monthly
    payments after 12 months (this is still a great deal BUT
    $1997 is crazy good!)

    If you want to buy a licence – you don’t have to use it now,
    you can lock in the great deal and use it when you’re ready”

    1. @Tom Stannard,

      The price sounds outrageous at first sight, but it is not.

      Leaving aside the issue of what makes a successful magazine and how to turn that into a business, and focussing only on publishing economics, the initial competition for magcast was adobes publishing platform, and for any reasonable circulation, that costs hundreds a month for ever., with an extra charge for every user who downloads your mag. Thousands a month if you get big time circulation.

      Check it out:

      So Magcast is a cheaper solution and has a lot more marketing bells and whistles.

      As I have said I have mixed views.

      Historically the challenge stuff has worked very well, indeed until the nasty penguin I can show screen shots of a lot of sites in all sorts of which got top rankings using those methods , and they pioneered a lot of techniques that (embodied in such as market samurai) that became industry standard later on. immediate edge is full of good stuff.

      I am less impressed with conduct of 30DCinc, which in my view could have and should have used what cash it had to prove to investors it could buy up online businesses however small and amplify the profits to prove the model and so attract serious investment.

      Bonuses should have been kept to a minimum until the model attracted sufficient outside investors. It was certainly possible to do. In that time I have bought a few sites on small scale that have returned 100% or more per annum. So it could have been done with their skillset.

      But the money has drained away. And that does not impress me at all.

      1. @anonymous investor, Again, you’re simply repeating Ed Dale’s nonsense. Magcast and Adobe Publishing Suite are not the only digital publishing apps out there. There are between 15 and 20 players in this space, almost all of which existed long before Magcast did, and almost all of which are far more sophisticated solutions.

        I work full-time as an iOS developer, and I can categorically say that what they are offering you is massively over-priced. I’ve taken a close look at Ed’s own magazine, and I could pull together that app in less than a week. With the help of a web developer, we could have the back end up and running in another week. If you’re paying a monthly fee, save your money, you could have this shovelware knocked up via a freelancing website for a fraction of the cost.

        Google has grown tired of spam. That is what your websites were, and that is why Google’s Penguin update has affected you.

        Ed has turned to iOS as the “next big thing” as Apple haven’t yet got to the point where they need to eradicate Newsstand of spam. But, mark my words, they will. When they do they’ll bury these Magcast magazines fast and hard. You’ll notice that Magcast doesn’t allow you to publish to Android, and that’s because Google are already on top of the spam problem; they won’t allow anyone who isn’t already in the publishing business to get into their equivalent of Newsstand.

        If you’ve never heard of shovelware, it’s low quality software that marketers build and flood a successful platform with. They aim to get there first with their low quality software, before people with actual talent catch up and crowd them out of the market. When the real life publishing world catches up with digital publishing, you won’t even see any of these Magcast magazines in their dust.

        1. @Pete Morris,
          Wrong on all counts

          I am not paying a monthly subscription for magcast, and at the price I paid , no developer could ever match it.

          Second google’s misrepresentation of penguin is far removed from the truth. Entire sectors of quality focussed niche sites from Smalll/medium enterprises have been replaced by low content pages from big brands who know nothing about those markets. The search results are now useless in some of those markets so buyers are fleeing to amazon. In my case at least the sites sold real stuff to real people via detailed content about the products. At yet still they got slapped by big brand spam. Google cannot get its head round the simple truth that a niche site about (say) plumbing blue widgets is likely to have that phrase in 101 permutations to match the 101 barely differing products. So foccussed sites are inevitably keyword intensive.

          As someone who has employed scores of software engineers in a variety of businesses, in my experience they are consistent in one thing. They claim to be able to do more far more than double what they really can in less than half than half the actual time. When they say “have finished” they really mean “know how to do it”. So pedalling bespoke app development as alternative to software proven and debugged by mass use will not convince me – alas you and your industry have been found wanting too often, and such as me have footed the bill for that

          What makes magazines spam is content not the underlying software structure Since many if not most shelf magazines are mostly adverts including most big titles, the entire industry has a spam problem.

          1. @anonymous investor,

            Was your ‘real stuff’ that you sold to ‘real people’ ‘big brand’ ‘stuff’, or other ‘stuff’?

            If was other ‘stuff’ how did you manage to put together such amazing websites with detailed content that made people buy this ‘stuff’? Also both for ‘big brand’ stuff, and ‘other stuff’ how did you manage to compete with Amazon, general retailers with websites, and other established businesses, who also sell alot of ‘stuff’ – just interested in what your USP is.

            Did you clearly identify your affiliate links with the ‘stuff’ you were selling? Or did you buy the ‘stuff’ directly and then sell it?

            If you have any links to any of your websites that sold ‘stuff’, that would be very entertaining, even though a Penguin has stopped them from working any more. Unless they are secret websites selling secret ‘stuff’ in secret ‘niches’ – in which case you better keep them secret. Or it is all just flannel.

            Plus – I would be interested as to what business category your variety of businesses fall into. Per chance: Internet Marketing? (Not sure if that is a business though.) (Also not sure if you are someone who has run one real business, let alone a ‘variety’.)

            Also – spam is not display advertising. Display advertising is not spam. I’m not sure how you got that confused. Spam is ‘sent’ and ‘unsolicited’. Display advertisements are accepted as part of the business model of most publications that we buy, and are not spam. Simple really.

            You might be getting that my view is that you are talking a load of hooey. But I’d be happy to be proved wrong. Evidence please…

            1. @Random stuff, can’t be bothered to respond to most of that, a mixture of assumption and error on your part. Spam has several aspects. Ask google about the context in which Morris used it. Paid journals stuffed with ads get the same consumer spam reaction as other push ,non permission advertising.

              I have been in many sectors and niches. My background is red brick, and even physical retail businesses at one point. I do not do affiliate or dropship ( which is dangerous when reviews matter) . If you look at UK markets for baby and related products a lot of big name retailers who are only peripheral in those markets, who know nothing about the products, certainly have no content to speak of, now dominate where once were specialist SME suppliers. My larger more unfocussed and diverse sites have taken no traffic hit, but all the narrow specialist sites certainly have. Google screwed up, they just will not admit it. I think they assumed that SME would immediately go to ADWORDS to replace the organic traffic. I think the net result will actually be they are handing ecommerce to amazon on a plate.

              Better marketing wins, even on Amazon, is certainly better to use private label. I am in there too. But then that is the issue. Immediate edge can tell you changing technique and it is y valuable for that, but it is not a substitute for entrepreneurial thinking , finding a hungry crowd and feeding it. No amount of internet pyrotechnics can ever win out on their own in the long term.

            2. @Random stuff, But then if you look on Amazon what you will see is camera accessories from a business used as an by immediate edge and owned by that stable selling through multiple channels. And on ebay too. And from those channels you can verify how much they are selling.

              But then I suspect Random Stuff , you have no idea what immediate edge even is before criticise it. It becomes blatantly obvious that neither does Pete Morris. If you want to criticise it for what it contains feel free.

              At present you are criticising on the basis of assumptions which are wide of the mark.

              PS copywriting technique is needed to stand out from the crowd on Amazon too.

            3. @Random stuff, But then if you look on Amazon what you will see is camera accessories from a business used as an by immediate edge and owned by that stable selling through multiple channels. And on ebay too. And from those channels you can verify how much they are selling.

              But then I suspect Random Stuff , you have no idea what immediate edge even is before criticise it. It becomes blatantly obvious that neither does Pete Morris. If you want to criticise it for what it contains feel free.

              At present you are criticising on the basis of assumptions which are wide of the mark.

              PS copywriting technique is needed to stand out from the crowd on Amazon too.

          2. @anonymous investor, You say that no software developer could match the price you paid for Magcast, but you’re not backing that up with any evidence, knowledge or relevant experience. You have no idea about the inner workings of the software; neither front nor backend. I know exactly how the thing works, and I can assure you it’s an inherently simple piece of software on both sides of the equation. Any competent software engineer would already have reusable pieces of code that would cover a lot of the functionality without lifting a finger.

            But that’s cool, if you’re happy with your purchase and feel that you got value from it then more power to you. My post was there to redress the balance so that people who might not be happy could get the full picture. Ed Dale’s scarcity techniques might make someone jump into a purchase that they don’t want.

            I might add, that he’s touted his $2000 price as being off the table forever on a number of occasions, don’t you feel even slightly aggrieved by this lie since you were clearly good enough to jump onboard at the beginning?

            Yes, it’s a common complaint with software developers. I’m currently working with a 15 year old Internet company who’ve been sold a bill of goods by their previous developer, and it’s taken several months to sort out his mess. Unfortunately, if you don’t do your due diligence and you don’t know how to find the right person for the job, you will indeed be left footing the bill. To throw the entire software development industry into the equation simply on the basis of your experience with ODesk is so ludicrous that there’s simply no point wasting any time debating it.

            I agree – I wasn’t talking about the underlying software. I was talking about all the low quality magazines produced with the software. I thought Ed Dale gleefully asked everybody to regurgitate other people’s blog posts and pass that off as a magazine? If that’s incorrect, I apologize.

            My main point, was that when mainstream publishers finally realize that they’re clinging to a doomed business model and move to digital publishing, all those Magcast magazines are going to eat their dust. No matter how good quality you think those magazines are, they pale in comparison to what professional journalists can pull together.

            The main problem with marketers is that they view their output as “content”, the same as mainstream publishers. There’s no artistic value in that, the aim is just to find something (anything) that ads can be wrapped around. Yes, this may be a term that mainstream publications use too, but the circumstances are different; they tend to have scores of highly-talented writers to create their “content”.

            I’m sorry, but protestations of keyword stuffing innocence are going to fall on deaf ears here. I don’t believe for a second it’s accidental that people stuff 100 exact keywords onto the page. Regardless, if you listen to actual SEO industry experts (i.e. people who work for big SEO firms, not Dan Raine and his tin-pot spam operation) you’ll find that the hypothesis is that Penguin is more about spam links than spam on the page. It’s just that websites that use spam links, tend to engage in on page spam too.

            By the way, Penguin had nothing to do with “big brands”. The Internet company I mentioned before that I’m working for are by no means a household name, yet they’ve held their own in the super-competitive management training space post-penguin.

            Look, this isn’t about defending Google. In fact, I actively detest them since they’ve manoeuvred like the snakes they are to commoditize information to the point that it’s worthless, and steal other people’s work in order to flaunt their ads.

            But, @anonymous, when you’ve been caught with your pants down, at least admit it – it’s been over a year now for goodness sake! I really am sorry if you’ve been hit in the wallet by Penguin, but it’s time to get over it, and move on. A little of the right stuff, is more powerful than a months worth of auto-generated link spam.

            If you can put your hand on your heart, and say that you never engaged in anything remotely black or grey hat in your SEO efforts, then I’ll apologize and move on from this point. But if you’ve been following the Challenge techniques, then you’re in a grey area at best. If you’ve been following Immediate Edge techniques then you’re in black hat territory, and black hat techniques never last longterm. If Ed and Dan have suggested that they do, then they’ve been lying to you.

            Before you listen to Dan Raine’s advice on how to run your business, I’d suggest that you do a little research on him. Using public records, you can track him down to a government owned house in a far from exclusive part of town. That is simply not how the rich and successful tend to live…

            1. @Pete Morris,

              Too many assumptions. I did not pay $2000 or anything like. I have never hired softare guys from ODESK.

              I have on the other hand run teams of scores of software guys in several different companies, and most are long on arrogance, short on ability, and think a timescale is out of a geology book, most have no concept of the need to work within a budget influencing whether they get paid! If I had ten dollars for every software guy who told me “got most of the code lying around, just have to put it together”, and then still kept me waiting months over deadline, I could pay for magcast out of that profit.

              There was a period on years google when a prescriptive method could indeed achieve results. Not any more, the summer is over. Nobody has a surefire formula now, even the top name SEO’s and indeed, following googles own deception about “what matters” is probably the worst thing you can do. It is following a moving target. Maybe brad callens link type ratios work. This week. No guarantee they will next. The reality is we are back to a period when big diverse sites with lots of pages. It used to be a mile deep, an inch wide was the focus needed to succeed. Now it is a mile wide one inch deep. I have sites like that that continue to keep traffic with 4 figures unique visitors a day. Hard for most SME to do that, because by nature SME are specialist.

              As for Raine. Believe what you will. If you dug deep enough into the edge you would have found examples of individual businesses selling real stuff to real people clearly owned by them, and turning 6 figures plus, in media where public can check the sales. A businessman does not have time to work out how to create apps from first principle or facebook apps, or similar , and that is why edge is a valuable place to tell you what is working now.

              This thread has run out of steam unless and until new information

              Suffice to say, I am pissed at Ed Dale for taking bonuses which left the company so short of cash it did not buy sites in the early days to prove they could follow the business model. The principle was in my view worth trying I have bought sites on small scale that turn 100% per annum. So in principle it was possible.

              I am Doubly pissed by the announcement because I suspect the roots of whatever led to this, were probably there and undeclared as a ticking bomb at 30Dcinc creation time

              I agree with Salty in his essential principle too. Internet marketing is not in and of itself a business, and average joe should not believe the claims made about “making money online” often promoted. It is a matter of emphasis. Selling camera gadgets is a business, with the right entrepreneurial idea, and whilst that may well need the web for marketing, and needs internet marketing knowledge for listbuilding or business process. But the business is camera gadgets. Not internet marketing.

              Where I disagree with Salty is that I do not think Ed is a fraudster, since I fail to see intent. He has in the past created and sold businesses, before telling others how. And certainly until the last couple of years you could / can buy sites on 1-2 years earnings. You would not as a scammer want to put it on show in the public domain, so there is hardly likely any intent to defraud, so I think the problem was hubris, not incompetence or fraud. I think Ed owes us all an explanation of the chain of events that led to this.

              And with that I shall bow out unless new information comes along.

            2. @anonymous investor, Sure, leave the debate when it gets challenging, that’s entirely up to you. New information? Can you point me to any new information in your reply? You just said the same stuff in a different way.

              RE Software Engineering: As I mentioned you’re lamenting your own ability to a) employee the right people b) get them to do the job that you’re paid for.

              You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, however I’d speculate that my degree in computer science and history of delivering customer-facing production software for major financial multinationals such as Schroders and UBS trumps your experience in software engineering, which amounts to little more than employing the wrong people.

              If you’d approached the conversation from anything but an angry and defensive standpoint, perhaps it might have occurred to you to seek advice from someone with experience on how to find a reliable software developer. Instead, you’ll stomp off with your hastily made opinion, employ the wrong people again, and then reinforce your incorrect assumption that you can’t find talented and diligent software engineers.

              RE SEO: no, no, no – stop listening to the “top” SEO people. They aren’t skilled at SEO, they’re just the ones shouting the loudest. Brad Callen is not an SEO, never has been an SEO, and knows precisely zero about what really SEOs actually do. They’re catching you in the IM world, and giving you a completely false mental model of how that stuff works. SEO is not about building your own links, never has been, never will be. It’s not all about links, it’s really not.

              RE Dan Raine: I believe the facts, which I’ve sought out for myself, and you could too. However, if you simply want to take him on his word that’s entirely up to you.

              RE Immediate Edge: I was a member for several months, and dug in plenty. It’s all just padding used to hook people in for as long as possible. When I asked in the forum who had been having success with the techniques taught in their blueprints, the silence was deafening (all those 6 figure+ people you speak of were surprisingly absent). The sum total of their expertise on SEO simply involves using blog networks; no comment required on that.

              RE Ed: If you don’t think he’s a fraudster (despite all reasonable evidence that has been presented to the contrary), totally up to you.

            3. @Pete Morris,
              re new information: I mean what was it that bankrupted Ed Dale, the online business or something else? It is possible to be honest and diligent and still be bankrupted particularly if civil litigation gets involved when a venture collapses and one of the ex partners has more money and anger than sense. The solomon lew affair is now a decade old, but perhaps that was the root.

              Suggest you look up straw man fallacy. Almost all of your comments are so far based on creating a paradigm based on a false assumption about those you criticise, and using that to attack your opponent. For example, I am certainly better qualified than you are in matters computer, and cut my teeth on big industrial applications that have to go in during a shutdown or liquidated damages apply. Real deadlines, not the mushy ones associated with financial sector clients with too much money who allow more or less cost plus contracts using excuses of specification creep.

              So till we hear more about ed, farewell from this thread.

            4. anonymous investor, you’re a shill.

              And I don’t mean that as an epithet, I mean you are a shill.

            5. @does no one see the obvious? – thanks for the wake up call

              @anonymous investor:

              ok, so to sum up for people who can’t be bothered to read this thread, which admittedly has gotten miles off track:

              a) you’re in the digital publishing business
              b) you sell online marketing services to “real world businesses”
              c) you sell “real stuff” which I presume means you’re in online retail
              d) you’re involved engineering “big industrial applications”, yet you also say that you’ve never been able to get a software developer to deliver, and that you wouldn’t consider even trying to get one to build a ludicrously simple Newsstand client such as Magcast. You must have lucked out with those “big industrial applications” then! (I’ll give you a free pass on the fact that I’ve never in my life heard anybody involved in the software engineering industry describe a piece of software as “big”)

              (hmmm jack of all trades, master of none. or perhaps you’re simply lying)

              e) you neither paid the one time $2000 fee for Magcast, nor are you a monthly subscriber. (hmmm interesting)
              f) you fail to respond to the criticisms that Magcast is sold under the usual false implication that it’ll be easy money
              g) you fail to respond to the criticisms that Ed Dale is telling people that if they regurgitate other people’s blog posts and pass it off as a magazine that they’re in the digital publishing business
              h) you try to bring up the fallacy (created by Ed) that Adobe are the only one’s offering digital publishing software and that Magcast represents far better value, and suddenly drop it when I point out that there are 15-20 companies in this space, all offering much more sophisticated solutions than Magcast (and that don’t centre their marketing efforts around cynical lies)
              i) you fail to respond to the criticism that Dan Raine can easily be tracked to a location which does little to support his assertions that he’s highly successful and raking in hundreds of thousands
              j) you fail to identify what exactly is valuable about the Immediate Edge, whilst also failing to respond to criticisms that it’s clearly devoid of members, teaches age old spam techniques (not SEO), and suggests that building a “niche” site around a nasty medical condition (without having any knowledge or qualifications on the subject) in order to profit from Adsense would be an awesome idea
              k) you fail to respond to the criticism that the 30DC teaches just enough spam techniques to get people a little Google traffic, in order to sell them a dream and flog them worthless products such as Market Samurai, Article Samurai (sorry Article Spamurai), and subscriptions to worthless training services such as Immediate Edge (yes I know you say they aren’t worthless but I’ve back up my assertions that they’re fluff, you have not)
              l) you fail to respond to the criticism that 30DC asks people to randomly identify a topic to begin a website about, encouraging them pass themselves off as a “market leader” in sectors that they have no knowledge about whatsoever, and no qualification to be passing themselves off as experts in
              m) you fail to respond to the fact that Ed’s credentials are highly suspect and that all that can be found about his business dealings that hasn’t been emitted from his own ass is a cached article about a business venture where hundreds of thousands of dollars went missing and everyone ended up in court.

              However, what you are interested in doing is:

              a) attempting to lead the discussion into a useless analysis of the reasons for Ed’s bankruptcy, in order to divert attention away from the fact that he continues to flog his services as a “successful” “multi-millionaire” businessman who can teach others how to rake it in. he can’t, never has been able to able
              b) attempting to divert attention from the reality that Ed Dale is crook and liar, and draw me into an argument about software engineering (fair dos, that worked to a degree and made me forget to pick you up on failing to answer any criticisms about Ed’s products and services which are all fluff and no substance)

              Say hi to the sickening wretch for us will you…

            6. @anonymous investor, I completely agree with you apart from I’ve had value from everything I’ve bought from Ed Dale.
              I have an online marketing business [I sell marketing services to real businesses with a website] so for me Immediate Edge membership keeps me on the ball with the latest online marketing techniques which work.

              Thumb up Thumb down +3

              Notice the current +3 rating for this comment.

              Uh huh.

            7. @Pete Morris,

              I will say this Pete Morris.

              You are a piss poor reader. You read in things which are simply not there. Most of what you say both in relation to my posts and immediate edge are wide of the mark.

              (a) Incorrect – did not say it.
              (b) Certainly not.
              And so on. Can’t be bothered to go blow for blow looking for the occasional correct point.

              Your magcast (or other platform) alternative proposing that all software should be custom built from the ground up rather than based on a platform which is updgraded with new bells and whistles, is clearly suspect software strategy.

              The edge is not nor was it sold as a get rich quick scheme, which is why you seemingly have problems with it It is a space for those interested in internet marketing to make sense of developments on evolving platforms, with embryo applications for using such ideas. You are wide of the mark on the content too.

              Since this thread is about Ed Dale’s bankruptcy, the reasons for it, whether it was a consequence of or unrelated to his online activeites, ( I would still like to know) seem to be more pertinent than your skill at app building, that is why I brought it back to that subject.

              Does not alter the fact that ed produced (for example)the first serious course on buying and selling websites as a result of having been there and done it, and I too have bought sites which still return 100% per annum. Entire forums exist of people in that business, so it is real enough. So the strategy of 30DC inc was in my view possible, had it not been emptied of cash which angers me in the extreme.

              Can’t be bothered to wade through the drivel on this thread looking for rare useful points raised. People here seem to have simple minds. +1 to call anyone a scammer. -1 to discuss anything else.

              I for one will wait to here more about the bankruptcy.

            8. @Pete Morris,

              I will say this Pete Morris. You are a poor reader. You read in things which are simply not there. Much of what you say both in relation to my posts and immediate edge are wide of the mark.

              (a) Incorrect – did not say it.
              (b) Certainly not.
              And so on. Can’t be bothered to go blow for blow looking for the occasional correct point.

              Your magcast (or other platform) alternative proposing that all software should be custom built from the ground up rather than based on a platform which is updgraded with new bells and whistles, is clearly suspect software strategy.

              The edge is not nor was it sold as a get rich quick scheme, which is why you seemingly have problems with it It is a space for those interested in internet marketing to make sense of developments on evolving platforms, with embryo applications for using such ideas. You are wide of the mark on the content too.

              Since this thread is about Ed Dale’s bankruptcy, the reasons for it, whether it was a consequence of or unrelated to his online activeites, ( I would still like to know) seem to be more pertinent than your skill at app building, that is why I brought it back to that subject.

              Does not alter the fact that ed produced (for example)the first serious course on buying and selling websites as a result of having been there and done it, and I too have bought sites which still return 100% per annum. Entire forums exist of people in that business, so it is real enough. So the strategy of 30DC inc was in my view possible, had it not been emptied of cash which angers me in the extreme.

              Can’t be bothered to wade through the drivel on this thread looking for rare useful points raised. People here seem to have simple minds. +1 to call anyone a scammer. -1 to discuss anything else.

              I for one will wait to here more about the bankruptcy.

            9. @Pete Morris, No, the subject here is Ed Dale, the bankruptcy is just one theme. You chose to praise Ed Dale’s products in this thread, and I’m calling you out on it because they are AS FULL OF CRAP AS THE CROOK HIMSELF.

              I never said a thing about the Immediate Edge being a get rich quick scheme. My issue with it is that it’s FULL OF MORALLY BANKRUPT RUBBISH.

              You keep coming back time and time again to assert that the Immediate Edge is not full of drivel, yet you’re not backing it up with any evidence at all. My assertion that it is 100% fluff has been backed with a few examples which people can go and verify themselves if they have the stomach for it.

              And for the 1000th time, THERE IS NO PROOF THAT ED DALE HAS MADE MILLIONS SELLING WEBSITES, apart from his own claims.

              Quite clearly I wasn’t suggesting that all software should be built from the ground up. I was saying that the Magcast price, when compared to the costs of developing such a basic piece of software, is DAYLIGHT ROBBERY.

              Seriously, your meandering nonsense and refusal to have anything like a discussion of the facts is pathetic. If all you can do is get your knickers in a twist and make half baked personal attacks, then you may as well get lost now. I’ll continue to eat you for breakfast, lunch, and dinner all-the-live-long-day.

              By the way, my being a “piss poor reader” is your opinion, and you’re entitled to that. However, the fact that you’re a piss poor writer of prose is undeniable fact, and plain for everyone to see.

              I notice that you spell using UK English though. You couldn’t possibly be sitting at a desk in Runcorn could you?

            10. @Pete Morris,

              I did not respond to your remarks about edge, because they were clearly an ill informed rant.

              For example – The edge SEO strategy was preaching link text anchor diversity years before penguin update, as are most of the opinions expressed by Raine and Dale are well ahead of their time, as witness twitter and facebook now being mainstream for business: they were preaching use of them two years before business even touched them.

              You cannot express Eds market leadership strategy as “blog something you know nothing about”, which is reductio beyond adsurdum about a multifaceted – multi platform approach to building a brand. Demonstrating that you never engaged with the content properly and tried to speed read a small part of it.

              Mainly what the edge contains is blueprints for how to use new things. Take a couple of examples Like whenever facebook changes app software or adds features, you can not only find a summary of what the changes mean in practise, but generally code samples for them. Several ways are discussed and demonstrated for building apps for such as uphone. When better plugins come along for wordpress, they are tested by the edge, and recommended setups are made. Etc etc All very valuable for time strapped people in the core user base of the edge – that is people whose day job is internet marketing.

              And as I have said – if you look for them you can see entire example businesses (take on for example in photo accessories) which are clearly owned and operated by those people, and are turning 6 figure dollars.

              So you cannot dismiss it as “rubbish” morally bankrupt or otherwise. It demonstrates little except you are not a core user of the kind of information the edge provides, so that is why you found no value in it. Fine. But that does not qualify you to pass judgement on it either.

              And whoever you are, you cannot produce a custom version of magcast for the price I paid for magcast. Period. The day rate for capable app developers would give only a couple of days to built it, and no way could you build ground up in a couple of days. End of story.

              It is hard for me to understand why you want to hit out at people you appear to know nothing about.

            11. @Anonymous investor

              Internet marketing isn’t a good thing. or even a real thing. it’s a fucking scam. as pete Morris has more eloquently put, it is based on lies, and teaches how to be a liar. it hurts people, and then tries to teach people how to hurt people.

              you are lying. lots of people have asked you to show ONE example of a successful business you have started via Ed dales programs and teachings, you have failed to. but you keep talking about them. either you are a troll, or you are lying, probably mostly to yourself.

              this website is about evidence. the post above uses Ed Dales emails, website materials, SEC filings, videos of him talking, and a direct interview, to paint the picture of a man who is a decrepit liar and scam artist. the one thing that you have admited here is that you fell for it, and for that no one judges you – it is a painful thing and difficult to get through.
              but you’ve got to wake up. it’s all a fucking scam, man. it’s three card monte. it’s not nice, it’s no way to live. break free of the burden of defending this kind of bullshit. begin the process of moving on.

            12. @Anonymous investor

              OK, I ducked out of this conversation due to bordom. Of course, I’ve checked back to see the the same nonsense from you. No tangible proof, no evidence that you have any specialist knowledge to back up what you say, no example, just conjecture.

              Regarding Magcast, again you make your claim with no knowledge of how to back it up. If you’re happy to have paid for Magcast, then bully for you. But you don’t get to tell me that I’m wrong about how simple a piece of software it is, you’re talking about things that you have absolutely no knowledge about (the Ed Dale “Internet Marketing” philosophy – shout as loud as you can about things you’re not qualified to speak about).

              I’d suggest you’ve been royally ripped off, as has everyone who purchased it.

              For anyone interested in publishing on iPad without being screwed over by Ed Dale and his stooges, you should keep an eye on PRSS, which is going into public beta very soon. It’s made by the guys behind TRVL magazine (a beautiful piece of programming by people who actually know what they’re doing). It’s going to be extremely low cost to use, involves no monthly fee, and will make Magcast look like the low rent piece of rubbish that it is.

          3. @anonymous investor, anonymous.

            I am sure amazon would disagree with you about whether internet marketing is a real business.

            1. @anonymous investor,
              that argument always reminds me of 10 year olds who say ‘I don’t have a girlfriend, I have a FRIEND who is a GIRL though’
              you must be a troll. if so, well done. if not, I’ll say again: no one here judges you for being caught up in this stuff. but after losing so much, can’t you see it for what it is? Ed Dale is a charismatic con man. the whole thing is rotten to the core. break free of this ugliness.

            2. @anonymous investor,

              I had a look on Amazon for some sales letters, some infomercials, some fake video testimonials, some fake user testimonials; how Amazon can address desperate needs; how Amazon uses ClickBank; how Amazon self publishes it’s own info products… & I found nothing. (Needless to say there are some fake reviews from *genuine* users, but I’d hardly say that is enough to put Amazon in the Internet Marketing category. Any self respecting Internet Marketer would never actually read or use the product he/she sells, regardless of whether under a real or fake name.)

              If Amazon is into Internet Marketing, they need to take some lessons, as there is room for improvement!

              Can you point Amazon to some good links to help them on their journey to success?

            3. @anonymous investor,

              Anchor text diversity.. You really don’t get it do you.

              They taught you to spam, then they advised you to dial back on your spam a little. Wow.

              The problem isn’t “anchor text diversity”, the problem is SPAM. If they hadn’t taught you SPAMMING in the first place, you wouldn’t have a problem to worry about.

              If I poisoned your food then offered you an antidote, would you say thanks? That’s what you’re doing when you praise the Immediate Edge in this way.

  20. @anonymous investor

    I would like to see a full list of investors and the amount each one paid for the privilege of being shafted, I doubt many of them would shrug their shoulders and accept their money simply ‘drained away’

    Mr Ed Dale decided to pocket it.

    I wonder if the Australian tax man might be behind his current woes, he must have been in one hell of a hole if $1.5 wasn’t enough to bail him out.

    Anyway, here’s a ‘challenge’ for you, and it shouldn’t take 30 days to solve. Below is a list of personality traits.

    All you have to do is to decide whether they most apply to:-

    A. An ‘Internet Marketer’

    B. A Sociopath

    C. A Psychopath

    D. All of the above

    Good Luck!

    Glibness/superficial charm

    Grandiose sense of self-worth

    Pathological lying


    Lack of guilt

    Emotionally shallow

    Callous/lack of empathy

    Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

    Parasitic lifestyle


    1. @Tom Stannard, I suspect only large investors are publicly disclosed.

      re tax man possibly. If the problems stem from outside his internet marketing business interests, he should in my view make some kind of statement to limit damage to his reputation.

      It is certainly possible to be honest, capable, and still have a financial disaster of sufficient scale to bankrupt. Any time civil litigation and costs are involved the scale of a financial disaster enusing can be out of all proportion to the underlying problem. I have no idea if that was the cause.

      As for the over simplistic multiple choice, I have met so called “internet marketing gurus” to whom the sociopath label and those callous traits certainly apply, and good on Salty for exposing a few of them.

      FTC are certainly doing good things with “operation empty promises” to bring, some , but by no means all to book.

      But sorry to disappoint you , but having got to know the guy for a number of years before parting with money Ed is not one of them. I think he has been unwise with some associations, and has suffered from guilt by association.

      Ed had certainly created and sold sites, before ever producing the course on selling sites. Dan Raine – the brains behind immediate edge (Ed is in essence the front man) certainly makes money from the internet as his day job. You can see some of those businesses making money, used as examples , if you know where to look: and they are not in the “make money” sector. I and those like me had enough success with 30DC methods to know they work.

      So I am annoyed about 30DCinc, I suspect it did not raise the capital hoped, and I think that was through p*ss poor selling, and attempting to market before creation of enough proof. But only time will reveal whether it was hubris , incompetence or sheer bad luck. And since the game is not over till the fat lady sings, the jury is still out on that.

      1. @Anonymous,

        Yes, only large investors are publicly disclosed. If you dig through 30DC’s filings on EDGAR Online, you can find them. Please don’t post all their names out here because they may be victims or innocent people, not people who are in on the scam.

        I don’t see a reason not to list Dan Raine, though. As the Schedule 13D/A filed December 31, 2012, states, “Mr. Raine has served as Vice President of Business Development of 30 DC, Inc, since July 2009.” Through Raine Ventures, LLC, Dan Raine holds 10,560,000 shares out of the 86,931,169 shares outstanding – about 12.15% of outstanding common stock.

        And what about this:

        30DC, Inc. issued 13,487,363 shares of its restricted common stock to N******* M****, Ltd. in exchange for certain assets held by N****** representing 50% of the MagCast Publishing Platform joint venture and Market ProMax. As a result of the issuance, N****** M****, Ltd. holds approximately 15.51% of the issued and outstanding common stock of 30DC, Inc.

        (Name asterisked to protect the innocent-until-proven-guilty.) Does that mean MagCast and Market ProMax were developed by N******* M****, Ltd., not by Ed Dale?

  21. Say what?

    Ed Dale has raised capital from investors and run away with the loot before?

    Yep, scroll to the bottom – http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/08/13/1092340457935.html

    Sounds familiar don’t you think?

    No surprises then that there was an attempt to discredit calls of bullshit on this scam (including one from a modest robot) back in 2010! (comments towards the end) – http://www.eddale.co/general/30dc-inc-why-we-are-going-public-30dc

    And the NASDAQ listing lies just never seem to end – http://www.linkedin.com/pub/henry-pinskier/1/312/8a5

    As for the claims that 30DC would invest in web businesses. It simply never happened (apart from buying businesses from Ed Dale and Dan Raine). Check the publicly available submissions.

    As far claims that Ed Dale and Co are skilled marketers, this is almost as laughable as the idea that someone would sell their business for stock in a fake company that runs at a perennial loss.

    1. @Candide ::

      Very interesting.

      Now that’s the sort of scum you expect to float to the surface when you tap on the side of a can of Internet Marketing …

      When retail tycoon Solomon Lew invested $4million in a company controlled by Andrew Landeryou and his business partner Ed Dale in February 2000, there were big plans to use the funds to build a sports statistics and online gaming group…

      Four years later it has degenerated into an unseemly, bitter fight between the powerful Lew interests and the high-profile Landeryou family as a court-appointed liquidator tries to determine what happened to IQ’s funds, its books and records, and whatever operating assets it once owned.

      But the liquidator’s task is made more difficult because, as the Federal Court has heard, most of IQ’s books and records have vanished. Judging by the paucity of documents submitted by IQ’s former officers to a liquidator’s examination this week…


    2. @Candide,

      Thanks for the insights, Candide.

      Now, are these “anonymous”, “anonymous investor”, and “Lanky” stories of Ed Dale’s great marketing info bona fide? You decide.

      1. @me,

        Now, in fairness, I would mention the good with the bad too if that had been my experience. I try to be balanced.

        But it’s really hard to defend (effectively) paying oneself 1.1 million in salary … while not buying any web properties from the broad market when that was the business plan. It does beg the question about whether Ed Dale et al. had any confidence in their stated business model when they went public.

        And if they didn’t, that begs the question about if their website buying/marketing info is bullocks.

        1. @Christoph Dollis,

          Quote: “But it’s really hard to defend (effectively) paying oneself 1.1 million in salary … while not buying any web properties from the broad market when that was the business plan.”

          Agree entirely. Said so earlier on.
          If the IPO did not raise enough to pay bonuses and invest in some demonstrator sites, then bonuses should certainly have been cut in part or whole, whether or not the plan sanctioned them.

        2. @Christoph Dollis,

          In the June 3, 2010, “Why We Are Going Public,” it certainly sounds like 30DC’s stated business model is to buy mommy blogs with stock and become the next Cheezburger network, doesn’t it? But the Form 8-K12G3 dated and filed with the SEC on Sept. 21, 2010, states:

          On July 15, 2009, 30DC acquired the business of the “30 Day Challenge” and “Immediate Edge” from two of 30DC’s founding shareholders as part of a plan to consolidate their business operations. 30DC was created to build and manage international web-based sales and marketing companies.

          The Form 8-K dated and filed Sept. 13, 2010, adds “acquire”:

          30DC Inc. was created by Edward Dale to build, acquire and manage international web-based sales and marketing companies. 30DC’s core business units are the 30 Day Challenge and the Immediate Edge.

          30DC wanted to acquire your websites – IF they were Web-based sales websites. And they have done so. They bought 50% of MagCast and Market ProMax from N******* M****, Ltd. using 30DC stock.

          30DC has followed its true original business plan, so why is it failing?

          1. @Lanna,

            NM was in essence magcast, and the arrangement struck me as odd at the time. The intention to pursue that market sector resulted from Apple announcing Newstand when ED and DR were in the audience at an apple conference, yet the strange (in my view ) decision was to develop the product as a joint venture by an associate outside the in house team.I suspect as a result far more was paid (albeit in stock)than the cost of outsourcing the development. It is not the way a company would normally try to retain IPR in an idea considered a core business strategy.

            That was not realisation of what appeared to be the strategy of acquisition of web businesses. The metrics mentioned at the time were buying businesses typically 30K profit/per month for around 18-24 months income, and using the cashflow to buy more. Those metrics certainly possible at the time..

            It was never done. Maybe the cash was not there to do it. Maybe site sellers held out for higher prices from a listed company, in which case they should have disguised the buyers identity in the negotiation.

            It is my view that had they bought even one or two sites at a couple of K profit a month, and showed they could double the revenue, then serious investors might have shown interest in the business model ratcheted up to more serious scale. At very least it shows poor marketing of the business, since proof is everything.

          2. @Lanna,

            Thanks for the suggestion to research EDGAR

            30DC are listed as a “training company”:-

            Net Bloo Media are partners with Ed on another project
            Where you too can spread the word and get 50% of $297 per month


            Seems Ed has learned from ENRON the way to run around the SEC is to have “off book” associations

        3. @Christoph Dollis,

          I still have some issues – along with others, in respect of Dan Kennedy.

          Your website links to / promotes Dan Kennedy.

          Dan Kennedy ‘helps’ some of the very big and very unpleasant manifestations of the IM problem.

          I think Dan Kennedy is part of the problem – not a bystander who helps people market.


          And then there is Lloyd Irvin.

          Who then commented on this site…(or someone helpfully on his behalf!) and he is really a nasty piece of work, if even a fraction of what is flying around him is true,


          Scroll back for Lanna’s comment in the stream, which is spot on.

          And here is Dan Kennedy’s page with Lloyd Irvin testimonialising about Dan Kennedy:


          Dan Kennedy promotes these evil shits. These evil shits promote Dan Kennedy.

          What is Dan Kennedy? Help me out here.

          1. @Random stuff, This person also got to get confused about who Dan Kennedy is also:


            “i spent $900 dollars on a money making opportunity with this company.when the program did not work i tried to get my money back for a month,they refused to do so .and tried to sell me another scam.there phone number is still out there,call it and see what i mean.1-800-487-0023.ext 4300.

            they even used dan kenndys marketing methods to get money out of unsuspecting people .dan is not a crook,but this guy tj is. and tj and his wife have attended dans seminars.”

            But when we go over to find this one…


            …we find out about that:

            “Bonus Gift #5 (included with “Deluxe” Seminar Box only): Dan recently spoke at T.J. and Eileen Rohleder’s 10th Anniversary Marketing & Moneymaking Convention. This event was restricted to 100 of their best clients, each paying $5,000.00 to be there. It featured nationally respected experts on mail-order, direct mail, Internet opportunities, and other entrepreneurial and direct marketing subjects. Each of the speakers has been granted the Rights from the Rohleders to sell the CDs of this unique Convention. But I have decided to give you the CDs FREE! If you are among the first to order the “Deluxe” Seminar Box, you will get virtually the entire 3-day Rohleder Convention on audio CD at no charge. T.J. informed me that he and some of the other speakers are selling this Seminar package for over $1,000.00! But order now and you’ll get it all FREE! You’ll get to eavesdrop on this incredible ½-million dollar event that was restricted to just 100 people, who each paid $5,000.00 to be there!

            You’ll see and hear T.J. & Eileen Rohleder, who are VERY savvy copywriters and direct marketers. In their presentation, they discuss the direct mail principles they’ve used to earn over $30 MILLION dollars during the last 10 ten years!”

            1. @Jack, …far too many people being manipulated and abused AND paying $39, $900, or $5000 and more: for rehashed and re-rehashed stuff that one should not be paying one cent for.

              You have helped me out: Yanick Silver, Dan Kennedy, et al. are poisonous grifters.

          2. @Random stuff,

            All data points are important, not just negative ones.

            I bought a $25 book from him, which is the link I believe you’re referring to (to that very book), and not only did I make my money back a hundredfold, I also — as a direct, explicit consequence — received the greatest and longest-lasting personal joy in my life by doing one of the exercises within the book.

            If other people have had negative experiences with Dan Kennedy, I don’t deny any of that. The above, however, is mine. That book had the greatest beneficial impact on my life out of the thousands I’ve read.

            On the other hand, nothing on my website says that Dan Kennedy is Socrates, Michel de Montaigne, and Alice Miller rolled into one.

            1. @Christoph Dollis,

              “All data points are important, not just the negative ones” has the style of guru statement, and people are expected to say “how true”, “how true”, and not really think it through as not having much meaning.

              If someone who manipulates people and rips people off, and keeps company with very nasty people, had an e-book produced that is full of derivative / re-iterated old hash, but one section of that book was relevant to one client, to whom the concepts were new, valid and pertinent…. I am afraid that one positive point would not be enough to move that person out of the category of the company that that person keeps.

              If the concepts in Dan Kennedy’s book were original to him, then I would *very partially* understand your attributing a positive ethos to the guy.

              But you could have got that same section from any other book that Dan Kennedy “borrowed” the concepts from. The fact that Dan Kennedy might have written a book with a pertinent section is almost irrelevant when the other facts about the guy are taken into account.

              Dan Kennedy = Frank Kern = Tony Robbins = James Arthur Ray = Yanik Silver etc. etc.

              They are all running and supporting the same evil gig.

            2. There certainly must be more than one positive data point, no matter how much the negative data points may outweigh them.

              I will not be browbeat into pretending that my personal experience was other than it was in order to fall in line with the herd. I do not play that game.

              One has to pick their battles in life. I have areas that I feel extremely strongly about and believe are great leverage points for me to effect positive change in society; more so, for me, than focusing on financial fraud (which is nonetheless important and a worthy fight). To the degree that I focus on that, I will start with those who I have personal experience with harming my life and then go from there.

              I will not be prioritising going after the guy who wrote the book that, perhaps mostly through happenstance, benefited me the most of any that I have read.

              Others can pick up that standard and by all means run forward with it to the degree you do so honestly and with good intentions.

            3. But you could have got that same section from any other book that Dan Kennedy “borrowed” the concepts from.

              1. But I didn’t. 2. No, actually. You don’t know what you’re talking about. It was his unique spin on it that made the difference.

            4. @Christoph Dollis,

              I have really no further points to make – everyone has to give up at some point.

              …just a final clarification.

              Your website links to http://dankennedy.com/blog/

              I did not find a link to the $25 book that you found worthwhile.

              He has written quite a few NoB.S. books and would like to know which is the one that you referred to (I have included 1* reviews, because they seem heartfelt, and they resonate with my perspective)…..

              Was it this book?

              Outrageous Advertising That’s Outrageously Successful: Created for the 99% of Small Business Owners Who Are Dissatisfied with the Results They Get (Paperback)

              The ideas in this book are so CORNY beyond belief!! Outragious marketing in this book means dressing up in a Superman outfit and looking like a fool!! There are better ways to get attention that are both professional and attention grabbing. Bill boasts about his wonderful successes with sending direct mail in cheesy formats like a brown paper bag!! Attention grabbing yes but also deceiving and in bad taste.

              Or this book?

              No B.S. Direct Marketing: The Ultimate, No Holds Barred, Kick Butt, Take No Prisoners Direct Marketing for Non-direct Marketing Businesses (Paperback)

              This book is nothing more than a marketing tool for the author to get you to buy more of his books, seminars and products. Each chapter gives a taste of a marketing concept and then ends the chapter with a website to go to for more information. Of course these websites want you to purchase the information in the form of more books, newsletters, seminars, etc. I also purchased 2 other marketing books at the time I bought this one, “How To Become A Marketing Superstar” by Jeffrey J. Fox and “Your Marketing Sucks” by Mark Stevens. Both offered complete, sound marketing concepts that I’ve already put to use and are showing results. And best of all…they didnt’ try to sell me anything!

              Or this book?

              No B.S. Time Management for Entrepreneurs (Kindle Edition)
              The best time management advice I can give is to not waste any on this book.

              Written like the autobiography of a narcissist, the advice herein would drive a service-based organization out of business faster than the sexist author can deposit royalty checks from purchases by chumps like me.

              Or this book?

              No B.S. Trust Based Marketing (Kindle Edition)

              The product is filled with advertisements on dan kennedy’s other products. the useful information regarding trust can be summarized in 5 pages or less. other info only includes why trust is important. surely a waste of money.

              Or this book?

              How to Make Millions with Your Ideas (Paperback)

              I believe the title for this review says it all. I don’t live in the US. and so have no insight in to “what works” in the US. However, I live in Denmark which is, along with Japan, probably one of the most high-tech countries in the world (yes, I’m bragging) and this book is so outdated I didn’t even finish it. I read and read and FINALLY there was a chapter which, I thought, would capture my attention with new exciting informations and strategies… So, I read on untill chapter 8: “Superhighway to millions: The Brave New World of Electronic Direct Marketing” and I was like: “finally, here’s a chapter on e-marketing”….. nope. Instead I read half a chapter about “infomercials”.

              I think the least the auther could do is write a 2nd edition – spice it up with NEW material!! A lot of books are perfectly fine even though they’re 30-40 years old.

              This book, however, is NOT like good wine. It should have been enjoyed years ago.

              Or this book?

              No B.S. Ruthless Management of People and Profits (Paperback)
              I fell for all previous revious and I bought this book. But I have started to learn that the first few positive feed backs are for publicity and should NOT be trusted.
              Please do NOT waste your money/Time with this book. Its boring and just like many authors he is trying to make money and nothing new in it(Real Shame). I Bought this book because the original book “How to make millions with your ideas” was extremely exciting and great. But then the author has simply used the fame of that book to sell his other books. I bought all the rest and they are all boring and I had to stop in the middle. Conclusion: He uses great tittles but the context is extremely boring and unoriginal and you will stop reading.

              …of course, there are also heartfelt good reviews (or not) mixed up with those written by PR hucksters. But they are not as alternatively entertaining & genuine sounding as the 1* reviews.

              I’ve tried to make an important point, but failed to get your agreement.

              Good luck out there.

            5. The book was The Ultimate Sales Letter. Saw it in a bricks and mortar bookstore’s business section, the title appealed to me, and it seemed like a good idea to buy. It was.

              At some place on the site, I have/had a mostly rotating series of thumbnails to books I’d read and liked, even Think and Grow Rich (which I now think is more bad than good due its emphasis on the previously-discussed outcome visualisation vs. process-of-doing-the-work visualisation. That’s where I thought the link to Dan Kennedy was). It has, as I mentioned, been some time since I have used the site, but I may rewrite it for its current purpose or repurpose it in the nearish future. When I do, I had intended to either remove reference to Think and Grow Rich or at least downplay it.

              I hadn’t remembered that I linked to Dan Kennedy’s blog, but in respect of your reasonable concerns, I will remove it at some point before using the site to proactively attract either job opportunities or business clients again, whichever route I choose. I will, though, continue to link to or refer to the book which helped me so much as I see fit, whether in a business sense or even a personal sense.

              Earlier this morning, I pointed out another behaviour I consider profoundly immoral, even more so than the things you’ve accused Dan Kennedy of, regardless of whether you’re correct, which you could be.

              But as it happens, that particular immoral thing is widespread and currently socially approved of (though, fortunately, it has lost majority-favour in some countries around the world, and is increasingly beginning to lose favour in mine and yours too, I would bet, wherever you happen to live). I cannot practically cease dealings with everyone who supports this practice, nor can I discount the majority of classic books in history because the authors probably have had this moral blind spot, and all I can do is speak out against it, which I do, and acknowledge that people are a mixture of good and bad.

              My liking a book I bought in a bookstore over a decade ago does not equal my endorsing everything about the author.

              But, along with the previous point I made about the profoundly immoral practice of hitting children, for years, no less, I add a few more examples (and also copy the below portion to that prior relevant comment of mine).

              What about Jewish people? They support and practice circumcision, which I, like Christopher Hitchens in this video, consider abhorrent. Must I then also refrain from praising anything any Jewish person ever does or has done, regardless of how much it has helped me personally? I know a lot of Jewish people I like, and I certainly support their right to continue existing.

              What about Somalis? The majority of them support female genital mutilation, which is also a brutal, barbaric, immoral practice. If a Somali person writes a book or a business article or accomplishes something in athletics or art or what have you, must I refrain from appreciating their accomplishment and good it might have done me?

              Must I discard everything good to come out of Athens?

              What about police officers, judges, prosecutors, politicians, and voters — the general public? They arrest people — taking away their freedom; destroying their livelihoods and lives — for buying and selling a plant, or raw milk for that matter, and they shut down extremely safe artisan cheese trades. And and on. These are but the tip of an extremely large iceberg.

              Am I forbidden to say, “Officer, you did a good job in X situation?” where they heroically or kindly did this, that, or the other?

              I could find endless examples of this, where people do a behaviour that shocks my conscience in one area, and yet they do something good or useful in another area. You’re within your rights to point out any criticism you have of Dan Kennedy, but we live in a society that hits children (in fact, despite it being OK to hit a vast swath of people in the distant not so distant past, children, who can’t vote, are the one remaining group it’s legal to hit) … and also currently accepts adults’ right to threaten their (very young and trusting and therefore believing) children with neverending torture at the hands of psychopathic demons (must I never say anything good about a Christian then, or a Muslim for whatever problems I have with their religion, or Tom Cruise for his great performance in Interview with a Vampire, or …?), and previously tolerated all manner of horrific evils that we now understand are wrong while being blind to the horrific evils in our current society.

              So while you might have a point, Dan Kennedy is hardly the only one it could be applied to. It could be applied to the majority of people for any number of things, and ask yourself whether you’re willing to cut yourself from everyone above before you insist I should not say that I liked Kennedy’s book.

              Thanks for wishing me well. You as well. I’m off to start my day, and I agree we’ve exhausted this.

    3. @Candide,

      Thanks for that – I was aware that had not ended all sweetness and light, and mentioned it earlier on. But I had not (so far) seen any documents related. Wonder if it all descended into civil litigation – tends only to be the lawyers that win if that happens.

    4. @Candide, That’s exactly the article I was referring to in my comments above. Good find!

  22. Websites sold


    My experience of Ed is that he models himself on unique individuals like Steve Jobs, without possessing the genius/resources/ability to profit from it but he keeps trying, because surely success has to come sooner or later (yes that is sarcasm).

    He’s as slimy as most businessmen out there. And I am talking about bricks and mortar types (coming from a background and family of those types I can spot them a mile off). But let’s be realistic, that’s the personality and type that succeeds (or fails). Do you think any successful business person out there is a cuddly mom/pop all of the time? No, of course not, that’s not how the world works.

    Some pragmatic points

    The Flippa sites sell off was always recognized and spoken as of arbitrage. There were mixed messages that came out of that – he said it was a short term strategy and not to be used to build a business on, but he then promoted people like Danny Batelic who had success doing it.

    Then there is the continued support of people like Frank Kern and Kilstein. A man of true integrity would shuck them off like so much garbage, but with three daughters at private school and a wife to support where would the money come from then?

    I also know of one large (potentially HUGE) investor who pulled out before committing because the deal being offered was not exactly in their best interests and was not exactly above board. It’s those little things that the “big boys” do to screw the less slimy that people of integrity just do not do.

    In the end we have these guys doing what those types of guys do. Just like the, let’s say cosmetics industry, where they see a group of people with some kind of insecurity and they create something to remove money and replace it with something that just patches over the insecurity for a minute or two with dreams of wealth and beauty.

    Being a doer rather than a whiner, I would prefer to teach people that being hooked to the great American dream may not be good for their health, and that happiness is found in all situations, but that would be life coaching and we all know that those guys are just as full of shit as the “big boys” in business.

  23. @Christoph Dollis





    There was no intention to brow beat, just to make points clearly.

    Either someone is going around abusing and ripping people off or not, and working in cahoots with others to do the same, or not.

    If they are, then they should not be promoted.

    To my mind, and reviewing the plentiful evidence and associations, Dan Kennedy is a five star member of the IM fraud club. If you agree with this, and you seem to, by acknowledging he has done harm to others, then I cannot see how you believe it honourable to promote him, regardless of the benefit you received from a book of his.

    1. @Random stuff, …but then I was thinking if this book was so incredible, and there do seem to be others who have benefited, then I should check out Dan Kennedy more!

      So if you get life changing ebooks for $35 imagine what you can get for $28,000 worth of non refundable Titanium courses!!!!

      Have a look:


      There is the backward layout of the form, and rather too many typos for a document selling something so expensive.

      The one I like the most is
      Direct mail
      ____YES ____
      Voice Broadcast
      ____ NO
      Web Site
      ____ YES
      ____ NO
      ____ YES
      ____ NO”…

      Freguent is not a frequent mispelling! Well done Dan! How easy is it to run a spell check nowadays? And I wonder what is going to be done with the answers to the poorly drafted options?

      And the other BS questions like

      “No. of hours per week you work “on” vs. “in” your business” !!!



      And then throughout, incorrect punctuation, random capitals and lower case letters.

      Someone issues such a slopplily executed and poorly thought through document in order for people to pay a life sucking $28,000! If that is the quality of the subscription document, imagine the quality of the course…

      I have real difficulties understanding how anyone who has not been hoodwinked, brainwashed, or lied to, would want to pay a single cent to the guy.

      Help me out here @Christoph Dollis. Please please tell me that you see the light?

      1. @Random stuff,

        I have real difficulties understanding how anyone who has not been hoodwinked, brainwashed, or lied to, would want to pay a single cent to the guy.

        Well, I’ll help you out. I bought something for under 30 dollars, and gained enormous sustained (but not permanent — ah, such is life) happiness as a result. Immeasurable value.

        If you are incapable of understanding that, then that is what that is.

      2. @Random stuff,

        “And then throughout, incorrect punctuation, random capitals and lower case letters.”

        LOL, seriously?

        That’s copywriting 101. It’s like when I used to make sales calls. I would sometimes script out my delivery, but on purpose build in errors into my presentation. The odd umm or uhhh, or a repeated word.

        Why? Effectiveness. It humanises it rather than comes across as overly polished. Now, I don’t feel the slightest bad about that. That’s hardly material misrepresentation.

        Hell, I lost my last job because I stood on principle rather than mislead customers as directed. I was even told to drop it, and instead put my concerns in writing. But if you think I’m going to get upset over a Capitalised word :: or some nonstandard punctuation, forgetaboutit.

      3. @Random stuff,

        Let me give another example using an issue that is near and dear to my heart (sadly).

        I have grown to become a decided advocate against spanking children based on both the argument from morality (hit a small child? WTF?!) and effect:

        “Spanking is a euphamism {7 of 57}

        That’s a minority position in North America, often itself mocked and attacked, but in Sweden, Kenya, and 22 other nations I believe (plus Delaware), it’s the law. This trend will continue and within our natural lifetimes, it will be the majority of countries, and spanking will eventually disappear as a socially acceptable behaviour like stoning (or swearing at) homosexuals has, beating wives, owning slaves, discriminating based on race, cannibalism, human sacrifice, and female genital mutilation (but not, in most countries, male genital mutilation — yet)

        However much you and I may disagree with specific practices of Dan Kennedy, etc. they are not, to my view, more evil in hitting a child … which, like other childhood experiences, often traumatises children, undermines their morality (they lose empathy for themselves and others), increases their risk of suicide, depression, initiating future domestic violence against their spouse, hitting children themselves, obesity (the largest psychological study looking at childhood trauma started with the observations about obesity by obesity researchers), cancer, heart disease, anxiety disorders, and on and on and on, reaching into nearly every nook and cranny of medical presentation, psychiatric presentation, and social and economic outcomes.

        Plus it’s just wrong to create a kid and start hitting it, but I digress.

        So I speak out against these things (and other forms of adverse childhood experiences) in no uncertain terms and will do more of this. I was discussing just this with a job counselor today, how this stance will either impact my job search or start-up of a small business (it’s a minority position, after all, and may be emotionally challenging to potential employers or clients).

        Now what do you suggest I do when I read, say, well pretty much every book, classic and modern, which was most likely written by someone who spanks, supports spanking, or what have you?

        Do I eschew any and all association with them and have nothing whatsoever to do with them?

        That’s an option. It would probably have worked for Diogenes. But most people would consider that unreasonable or at least economically and emotionally (socially) unviable.

        So I will ponder my most appropriate response to the fact that I live in a country that by and large supports the hitting of children and blames the children for the bad behaviour now provably caused/exacerbated by the parent’s egregious decision.

        But if I can say, “Hey, that book or TV show or chocolate-sundae was great,” about someone who was immoral in some other way, then I can do it about Dan Kennedy’s book that I bought however much IM is an emotional bugaboo for you.

        And I understand that. I feel similarly strongly about spanking and circumcision.

        Now notice that every word I’m typing is here under my own name. If we’re going to get into an ethical discussion, then I ask you to write under your name so that we can each be responsible for what we say. If you’re not willing to do that, then I am going to discount what you have to say, a lot.

        1. More examples:

          What about Jewish people? They support and practice circumcision, which I, like Christopher Hitchens in this video, consider abhorrent. Must I then also refrain from praising anything any Jewish person ever does or has done, regardless of how much it has helped me personally? I know a lot of Jewish people I like, and I certainly support their right to continue existing.

          What about Somalis? The majority of them support female genital mutilation, which is also a brutal, barbaric, immoral practice. If a Somali person writes a book or a business article or accomplishes something in athletics or art or what have you, must I refrain from appreciating their accomplishment and good it might have done me?

          Must I discard everything good to come out of Athens?

          What about police officers, judges, prosecutors, politicians, and voters — the general public? They arrest people — taking away their freedom; destroying their livelihoods and lives — for buying and selling a plant, or raw milk for that matter, and they shut down extremely safe artisan cheese trades. And and on. These are but the tip of an extremely large iceberg.

          Am I forbidden to say, “Officer, you did a good job in X situation?” where they heroically or kindly did this, that, or the other?

          I could find endless examples of this, where people do a behaviour that shocks my conscience in one area, and yet they do something good or useful in another area. You’re within your rights to point out any criticism you have of Dan Kennedy, but we live in a society that hits children (in fact, despite it being OK to hit a vast swath of people in the distant not so distant past, children, who can’t vote, are the one remaining group it’s legal to hit) … and also currently accepts adults’ right to threaten their (very young and trusting and therefore believing) children with neverending torture at the hands of psychopathic demons (must I never say anything good about a Christian then, or a Muslim for whatever problems I have with their religion, or Tom Cruise for his great performance in Interview with a Vampire, or …?), and previously tolerated all manner of horrific evils that we now understand are wrong while being blind to the horrific evils in our current society.

          So while you might have a point, Dan Kennedy is hardly the only one it could be applied to. It could be applied to the majority of people for any number of things, and ask yourself whether you’re willing to cut yourself from everyone above before you insist I should not say that I liked Kennedy’s book.

    2. @Random stuff,

      Fair enough. I certainly don’t object to you fighting the good fight.

      However, my heart wouldn’t be in this one, and I’m sure you can understand that. It would be strange if it was.

      If you agree with this, and you seem to, by acknowledging he has done harm to others

      You are putting words into my mouth. Everyone who has reached adulthood has done some harm to others. I know he did me a lot of good, and I assume he’s done other people a great deal of good as well. I’d be shocked if anyone who wrote books designed to be influential in any way didn’t hurt some minority of their audience. Circumstances vary, chance plays a role, individual backgrounds are diverse, Murphy’s law has its play, stochastism has its say, honest but well-meaning mistakes are made.

      The questions, of course, are two-fold. and come down to the argument from morality and the argument from effect. Did he intend harm/was utterly disregarding of harm? Well, that’s a problem. So intention matters. Also, what were the effects?

      I remember on Carlon Haas’ website (he’s a major critic of IM fraud, woo, etc.), about three years ago, he wrote a Dan Kennedy piece that was very critical. I didn’t have any reason to disagree with his reasoning in the article. Yet, if memory serves me correctly and I believe it does, I had also liked his FB page or followed him on Twitter or some such. I noticed he (this is going by memory, could be wrong but don’t think so — you can ask him) had some link to some Dan Kennedy program or other. I asked him about this, as it seemed a discrepancy, and he said something about he’d learned some good ideas from it.

      Well, ditto.

      I don’t see everything as so black and white. I don’t think Dan Kennedy is Satan. While I’m not objecting to you focusing on Kennedy if he bothers you, and I understand your position, I think it’s a bit unreasonable of you to expect me in particular to be outraged by him when my memory is his book was great and helped me no end — literally bringing about the best years of my life.

      It could well be the case that Kennedy has allied himself with some unsavoury types from time to time for profit, but is in fact a pretty good marketer. It might even have been a fluke.

      Either way, in fairness to him, my positive testimonial — which I brought up in response to your questions — stands. It is what it is.

      I think that’s a pretty good book.

      If you can’t get that, that’s fine.

      1. @Christoph Dollis ::

        Fuck Dan Kennedy.

        Why do I care if you liked something in one of his stupid loss leader books? Cause … I don’t.

        I distinctly remember having this convo with you already :: so please take a few moments to read my new book …

        I Don’t Like Repeating Myself … Dot Com

        Drench your site in Kennedy testimoanials for all I care :: tattoo his name on your ass … whatevs. But don’t come to my site and make weak ass meandering justifications and expect people here to just swallow it down.

        Your comparisons to spanking and jews are fucking ridiculous.

        “I could find endless examples of this…”

        Oh god … please don’t.

        It’s like you’re against spanking :: but you’re still recommending the book …

        Spare The Rod, Spoil America: How a lack of traditional discipline is destroying America’s fundamental values

        … because you thought it had a couple of good tips about finding firewood.

        Now that the analogy is apt … it fails to make your point.

        If you’re going to comment critically about gurus here :: but keep up a website like the one you’re linking to … then you are a hypocrite. Either embrace that fact :: rectify it :: or shut up about it … those are your options.

      2. @Christoph Dollis,

        You make the classic point, for instance with Muslims.. Not all are Muslim extremists.The thing is, Droidlings hold teachers of marketing with the highest level of opposition most likely because they assume they create more non-qualified marketing proponents.

        The reality is that affiliate marketing is quite simple, and they ignore the reality of the Internet Gold Rush. They are a collectivist group, most likely sponsored by the FTC to keep small business advice at bay.

        It really has nothing to do with “Justice” for the consumer, as you can see they target the teachers that oppose big government public school systems.

        If they were here trying to make a difference they would target the people who do fraud, fraud as in
        use fake names, fake testimonials, misleading billing and fake products.

        Instead they target teachers that use their real names and because of that if they used fake testimonials
        and bad billing & everything that comes along with that they would be FUCKED.

        So why do they “attempt” to target real marketers who now teach advertising and marketing to small businesses? The same teachers that once ran a successful business online, have actual experience advertising and experts in commonly used marketing tools?

        Because they are collectivists.

        Now you may say, ah, I get it, they are communists… Well, not exactly.See we live in a Fascist society. It’s in the middle, between communism and Capitalism.It’s when the huge corporations get together with the state and monopolize.

        So when any small business person threatens their bottom line, they annihilate the small business person. This is why you will frequently see Lanna and other droidlings refer to “proper business people” as working
        for one of these giant corporations.

        I remember one time Lanna posted a top 100 companies list that included horrible companies that worked closely with the Nazis. They are entirely cheerleading for big government, big corporate fascism and their position is political
        posturing nothing more.

        1. @Mark Twain, Re the FTC:

          “So why do they “attempt” to target real marketers who now teach advertising and marketing to small businesses?”

          It’s quick and easy to do that one, but not the other?

      3. @Christoph Dollis,
        Looking for some info on copy-writing recently, I visited Dan Kennedy’s site and found a ton of courses on copy-writing. If you Google “great copywriters” Dan Kennedy’s name will be mentioned over and over again on the search results.

        Of course this means nothing (after all Perry Belcher is one of those results too). What does mean something is: how many control packages did Kennedy have at top advertising companies?

        This is important because it’s an indicator of performance. You see, I can begrudgingly conclude that Manchester United were the best team in the premier league this year, because they played every team twice and finished with more points than anybody else. They beat the competition.

        The problem with Kennedy is that, you have a bunch of his disciples running around saying what a genius copywriter he is, but in reality there’s no real evidence. I know of no winning controls he’s had for major advertising companies.

        If he was that good at copy-writing why does he not have a proven track record of beating other copywriters and their control packages?

        If you are a top copywriter the sky is the limit in terms of income. Real copy-writing legend Gary Bencivenga once had a package in the 1990’s mail 100 million times netting him 5 million dollars. He was also never beaten in a split run test in Rodale’s book division.

        David Ogilvy built a top three (real) advertising company in the world off of his copy-writing abilities and insane work ethic. “Ogilvy and Mather” is still going strong long after his death.

        The only thing I ever see to back up Kennedy’s copy-writing abilities is a bunch of B.S from the other guru’s of “Internet Marketing”. It’s all smoke and mirrors. More like cult psychology built on social proof than real evidence gained from blind controls, where the reader has no idea who the author is.

        The fucked up thing about it is, that anyone could buy his $2,000 courses believing all the hyped based bullshit out there.

        In comparison David Ogilvy’s, “Ogilvy on Advertising” sells for $12 online, Bencivenga’s ezine is free, and Denny Hatch’s million dollar mailings sells for $30.

        The truth is that unless your retired you’re not gonna give your hot shit secrets away to your competition. Bencivenga once said that he wouldn’t speak at seminars or give interviews when he worked because it lowered his credibility. He couldn’t understand why an active copywriter would arm his competition.

        Ogilvy would ask people he interviewed for a job from other companies to tell him how their former company got some of their winning idea’s. If the prospective employee told him, he wouldn’t hire them because he feared that the new employee would freely divulge some of his own carefully guarded secrets to his competition.

        As far as I can tell the only thing Kennedy has ever done is sell information on how to make money.

        To add insult to injury he calls himself the millionaire maker. He also claims that only 5 percent of the people who buy his products use his products. That means that even if 100% of those people who try his programs become millionaires he has at most a 5 percent success rate. In other words his products have absolutely no effect considering that 5 percent of the country will be millionaires anyway.

        1. @Richie,

          I agree 100% with what you’re saying about Dan Kennedy. I just have to point out that whatever Bencivenga once was, he’s now swimming in the sea of sleaze with the rest. This Dan-Kennedy-style online sales letter for his $5,000 DVD course includes testimoanials from Joe Polish, Brad Fallon, Yanik Silver, and Joe Vitale.

          And this, in answer to @Mark Twain’s accusations, is why I will pull out a “top 100 companies” list or look at a multinational advertising agency like Ogilvy & Mather to make a point about how legit companies write copy, use marketing graphics, and use affiliate marketing rather than trying to point to someone like Bencivenga who may flip-flop from writing legit direct mail for Rodale’s alt-med books to hawking a workshop video for $5,000 using a quote from “The Secret” “star” Joe Vitale.

          1. @Lanna,
            Very true.
            Joe Vitale in particular is a special type of scum sucker.
            A man who sells nonsense and pseudoscience to well meaning people is not the type of person to share space with on a website.

            1. @Richie, I guess Joe Vitale got your message about selling nonsense and pseudoscience to well meaning people. Because it looks like maybe he has turned over a new leaf, and he is selling something more scientific now:


        2. @Richie, Not that he’s not an evil fuckhead, because he is, but he supposedly did quite a bit of work for Weight Watchers back in the day.

          1. @Sundog,
            Thanks for the heads up.

            I’m surprised that Kennedy doesn’t use that more as a proof element in his copy. Maybe he does in some of his ad copy. Who has the time to read all those long sales letters?

            Either way a couple of successful controls wouldn’t grant him the inflated reputation he’s manufactured for himself.

            So many people in the Internet Marketing community talk about him as if he is a copy-writing god.

            Seems to be 80% percent manufactured social proof.

            Not saying he’s a bum copywriter. I just can’t see myself getting $2,500 worth of value from his creating copy that sells course. http://store.dankennedy.com/group-2/copywritting-1/creating-copy-that-sells.html

  24. @SD red rag to a bull. Ed Dale now promoting a youtube course by Jeff Johnston.

  25. Christopher Dollis,

    Your charade has gone on far too long.

    Your site, http://christophdollis.com/ “The place to come for more appointments, more people in the door, and more sales!”

    is a consultancy to the boiler rooms and everything scamworld. This is obviously your customer base.

    You may argue that you are business to business but at the bottom of your sales page,
    if you click on the buy now link, you will then fill out a form here: http://christophdollis.com/contact/

    Which gives you the following options:

    “I am looking for a direct to CONSUMER SALESPERSON”

    So you will provide a direct to CONSUMER salesperson such as yourself?

    While he has other passions, Christoph Dollis has 1 profession – selling:
    Has a proven track record of self-generating qualified sales leads”

    You are a direct to consumer salesperson? By means of dialing leads you “self generated?”

    I also notice the following option as well:

    “I am looking for online, telephone and/or in person marketing assistance”

    So it sounds to me as if you are the consultant of the boiler rooms.

    It would make sense that Dan Kennedy is featured on your site, as well as many other links to scamworld entities.

    Below your Dan Kennedy link there is a category entitled “Sales”

    Now isn’t it funny the first link is “Business by phone” Owned by Art Sobczak with the title:

    “501 tips for easier COLD CALLING, selling, beating voice mail, avoiding rejection and more.”

    Why would you need to “avoid rejection” you might ask? Because you are cold calling, in otherwords dialing
    people who do not know who you are and quite possibly breaking multiple laws including the FTC telemarketing rule which many boiler rooms perpetrate?

    How many of your clients are from Utah? Do you instruct your clients to properly obtain a telemarketing license?

    1. @Otonomo,

      I used that website to get a job — which is hardly immoral.

      The last job I got through it was working for a multi-hundred employee nation-wide “yellow pages” type print directory company selling advertising over the phone to local business people, bringing in actual clients through their doors.

      Nonetheless, I discovered some things that troubled me about how that company was operating (they have since ceased operations), and unlike everyone else selling for that company to my knowledge, I brought my concerns to management. Specifically, that I may have been fed misinformation that resulted in me unknowingly passing off misinformation. I felt this was not only wrong and against my standards for how to honourably make sales, it also violated two laws.

      I was told to drop these concerns, and instead put my concerns in writing. I was promptly suspended, then fired.

      For refusing to knowingly mislead customers to make sales, despite the fact that would earn me more money.

      So try again, sir.

      “501 tips for easier COLD CALLING, selling, beating voice mail, avoiding rejection and more.”

      Art Sobczak’s business-to-business sales info is fantastic, and he emphasises asking questions rather than slickness to uncover needs so to be able to present a proper solution. He stresses honesty throughout.

      He’s the real deal to the best of my knowledge.

      If you hate capitalism and sales, that is your business. But next time you want to launch your spew, maybe pick someone else other than the one salesperson out of hundreds who lost his job out of principle rather than deceive prospects.

      1. I will further point out that the above comments won’t exactly help me in the hiring process of a shady company, now will it?

        Which is clearly fine with me or I wouldn’t have left them. I’ve poisoned the well to being hired by scam companies.

        That’s awesome. I remain open to working for good ones.

    2. @Otonomo,

      To clarify for the sake of accuracy, their main business unit was print directories. I worked for a newer online directory team, part of the same company — which was legitimate and actually did generate business for advertisers.

      However, I became concerned when certain information I was told to communicate to customers and prospects later turned out to be exaggerated in my opinion (rather than made up out of whole cloth). This was enough to force me to cease making sales until I had clarified things with the company.

      And as it turned out, that process went about how I suspected.

      Out of curiosity, when is the last time you lost a job you were earning money from and enjoying for your principles, Otonomo?

  26. My, but that’s confusing..

    Check out @Otonomo in the Salty Droid 2012 thread


    @Otonomo in the Ed Dale Scam thread

    You’re trolling, @Otonomo. I think you might have trolled a lot before and I just forgot. Or not. Whatever.

    You were interesting for about 3.8 seconds, but now you’re boring.


  27. Christopher Dollis, If you indeed worked for one of these companies my heart goes out to you.

    It did NOT look like that man. It looked like you were working with these shady ass rooms that gave marketing a bad name up until 2011.

    I stand corrected if you worked for Yellow Pages and not the rooms.


    You wouldn’t understand it. You are color blind.

    1. @Otonomo,

      I didn’t work for Yellow Pages per se, and I don’t want to besmirch their reputation. I have no inside knowledge of their business practices except for the odd industry war story. And even if their practices aren’t perfect, I’ve no doubt they’ve generated actual revenues for many of their advertisers (as did the company I worked for, incidentally).

      That’s all I have to say about the identity of the company.

  28. Christopher Dollis,

    I hope you do understand I was messing with you.

    My point exactly.

  29. @Anonymous / @Anonymous investor



    ok. There are a great number of sound retail online businesses – however if you have a number of them – I’m not sure why you would be defending the business products of Ed Dale: who has not, from the evidence, achieved more than flim flam. I have to remain unconvinced.

    Re Magcast: it has 300 magazines published to date. Is yours still up & has it covered the cost of the initial $2000 and other setup costs; even more, is it running at a profit?

  30. In response to this comment


    …we get this:


    @anonymous investor

    You really are starting to contribute wonderful rubbish now. I’m thinking that you’re infact a supporter of Salty Droid, doing the most fantastic parody of a useless troll. All the genuine trolls are dissapearing… so thank you!

    But I think you can do better!

    I await your next contribution!

    1. @Random stuff, @Anonymous investor

      Also re

      @Random stuff, But then if you look on Amazon what you will see is camera accessories from a business used as an by immediate edge and owned by that stable selling through multiple channels. And on ebay too. And from those channels you can verify how much they are selling.

      But then I suspect Random Stuff , you have no idea what immediate edge even is before criticise it. It becomes blatantly obvious that neither does Pete Morris. If you want to criticise it for what it contains feel free.

      At present you are criticising on the basis of assumptions which are wide of the mark.

      PS copywriting technique is needed to stand out from the crowd on Amazon too.

      there is:


      With stuff like:

      Discover Why The 5% Blueprint Is Going To Be The Single Most Important Piece Of Training You Will Follow This Year, And Watch Me Show You How To Start From Scratch And Become An Expert In Anything – Seriously, You Can Take The Stuff I’m Teaching And Apply It To Your Business Today.


      Are You Sick & Tired Of Buying The Next ‘Shiny Thing’?

      I Am About To Reveal Something
      That No Other Marketer In Our Industry
      Would Ever Dare To Show You, We’re Going To
      Start Up A Brand New Business From Scratch
      In One Of The Most Competitive Markets Online
      And You Are Going To Get A Front Row Seat
      To All The Live Action…

      Brilliant! Chuckles! If only I knew how to show the random fonts, italics, bolds, and reds, – you need to go to the link to see them in all their glory.

      And then, Ed Dale and Dan Raine start explaining the *5% Blueprint* …and it all starts to make more absolute nonsense!

      Priceless. But life is too short to sign up for more. The sales letter was “copywriting technique” perfection.

      1. Suggest you actually join up on the edge, and unlike Morris spend sometime understanding what it is and what is there. And then and only then you might have an opinion. What is there is useful to anyone who uses the web for marketing.

        1. @anonymous investor ::

          I thought you said you were Audi 5000 until there was some new information?

          I think that’s what you should do :: unless YOU have some new fucking information … or any information for that matter. I’m gettin sick of your cat crap.

          Ed Dale is currently mailing for Eben Pagan {without disclosing his affiliate relationship}. And here’s a sales email from MagCast :: subject lined “This is Why We Do What We Do” …

          First, read this awesome email I just received yesterday.

          Dear Ed,

          Just wanted to send you a note to personally thank you for bringing us MagCastApp. It has already changed my life and will no doubt continue to do so well into the future. I am an Australian nurse who has been nursing for 25 years and have been trying to supplement my income for many years now. My goal is to be working fulltime from home so to spend more time with my wife and two sons.

          {blah blah blah}

          I couldn’t afford the full price version, so I was very excited when I could sell some items around the house to raise the funds to set up my business and subscribe to MagCast.”

          I think that pretty much sums up Ed Dale … worthless piece of shit.

        2. @anonymous investor

          As I already pointed out, and which you have conveniently ignored again and agin, I was a member of the Immediate Edge for several months.

          The forum was dead.

          The information on SEO was 5 year old black hat crap written by serial spammers.

          I stopped reading the “blueprints” after the Adsense one followed an example of setting up a website about a serious illness (no medical degree necessary!) in order to profit from Adsense.

          I’ve spoken to another person who joined, asked in the forum who was making money using their techniques, and promptly had their account cancelled.

          The Immediate Edge is full of crap, and so are you.

  31. @Pete Morris,

    I listed the sites sold somewhere above. You may never have heard of FRAPS but I bet Jason has (being the shit hot gamer he is ;) ). I am still unsure whether he sold them on behalf of someone else, or whether he actually owned and sold them.

  32. I often wonder if Ed Dale and his like are genuinely deluded as their ‘talents’ or simply bad people with little or no conscience.

    Here’s another example that popped out of the ether today.

    Meet Bob Yeager – he is a superstar. I can quote from his not so frequently updated blog.

    “The company you’ll see me speaking with just paid me $50K to train them for 6 hours online and 1 day in house. I think the short 18 minute clip will be worth the price of reading my rant :)”

    Three months later, his father passes away unexpectedly, and that is very sad.

    But why does superstar Bob need the wider world to help pay for his dearly beloved’s funeral on gofundme?

    “Right now, the family is reaching out to raise $3500 to cover cremation expenses. Any donation would be appreciated.”

    From February 2013

    “Funny thing is, whenever any of my clients put what I taught them into action, they all achieved results that far exceeded the amount they invested with me and they keep coming back for more. Sound cocky of me? Good, it’s my right :-)”

    to June 2013 holding out the begging bowl.

    What is it with these people?

  33. Just got an email off this douchebag and he’s now pimping something called the “brown box formula” basically selling physical products on Amazon ect. Make’s finding wholesalers that’ll work with with home workers sound simple! I work for an actual brick and mortar business, that’s well established. We were recently looking to start selling products online for a new business stream. The hoops that wholesalers expect you to jump through are incredible and practically all of them insist on no Amazon and Ebay sales. But don’t worry because Ed and his mate Ezra have the actual “script you should use” that will guarantee they’ll do business with you! How does this arsehole sleep at night?

    1. @Marc,

      I’ve actually been following closely this “Brown Box Formula” horsecrap for the past couple of days and besides Ezra Firestone, the guy behind it is no one other than… Ryan Deiss (convicted felon Perry Belcher’s front).

      1. @Omri Shabat,

        Ah yes, good ol’ convicted felon Perry Belcher.

        It must be nice to have like an unofficial-official title like that. If I get one, one day I hope it’s not “convicted felon”.

  34. Ed Dale and Kern got a couple thousand out of me in 2007 in their Ultra Underachiever membership. What came out of that mainly was an understanding of how adept Dale was at making you feel like you were receiving something for your $299 a month when in fact you were getting very little. Mainly hot air and feel good prattle.

    ZERO of the above story surprises me. All of it rings exactly true. Con man of the highest order.

  35. it amazes me how on the internet I find useless, meaningless crap like this ‘blog’ and something I actually learned from, Ed Dale’s Challenge. I don’t know much about Ed but I have completed his free courses and have nothing but good things to say about The Challenge, it’s been actually the only internet marketing course where I have experienced high quality content and the author wasn’t trying to string me along. So what if he sells his mentorship for 5000 dollars? Who cares? He could sell it for 1 million and I would still have no complaints about The Challenge, I have actually learned lots of good stuff from it.

    You are clearly a stupid whining little man-bitch, because if you had better things to do you instead of moaning, you would not go around writing meaningless crap and slagging people off. Your mentality conforms of that stupid nowadays culture about who’s ‘an achiever’, who’s an ‘underachiever’, ‘being a nerd’, ‘being a noob’. Stupid pop culture crap, and also, how hypocritical. Who isn’t a nerd nowadays? If you spend more than half hour a day in front of your computer or check your email more than once a day, you are a nerd. Considering that writing the crap you write takes more time than that, I can only pity your stupidity.

    Who the hell are you to judge people as being ‘underachievers’ for taking part in The Challenge? That’s really stupid, ’cause it’s actually the opposite, since it required a lot of discipline, commitment and time, I have learned very valuable things from it and it costed me a lot of work, and then I hear some stupid losers like you who go around saying people who do that are underachievers? Give me a break, little whining moron

    1. @Rudolph The Reindeer, I believe its Ed and his bestest pal Frank Kern that that refer to “challengers” as underachievers…..The title is meant to hint at the fact that if you blindly follow what Ed and co have to say even a complete moron can achieve success on the internet, quit their job and live happily ever after on a ranch breeding unicorns and jackalopes….As a matter of interest Rudolph how much did you make from the challenge?

      1. @Marc, and all the others…. I’ll try to reply to all.

        people like you show how they’ve got their mind up their butt.

        I have NEVER heard Ed referring to people like me wanting to learn marketing and internet marketing as ‘underachievers’, in fact he has always said that if HE can do that and he failed at English, why should not others take a shot at it? He has been nothing but encouraging and like I wrote I have put hard work in all this (for 8 weeks, full time) and have learned a SHITLOAD of good stuff, i.e. how to do market research, the problem with you narrow-minded ignorant people is that instead of asking ‘what have you learned? ‘ you ask stupid question trying to make them look like clever ones: ‘how much money did you make from the Challenge’ ? . Well here’s my answer: I wasn’t even EXPECTING any since Ed -clearly- said/ explained and wrote 3000 times to retarded little haters like you and the other ones here, that as for money, ONE DOLLAR is the ONLY goal in the Challenge, because you almost NEVER make money with your FIRST business, you have to implement a LOT of ideas so that MAYBE one will work. That’s actually one of the best things I’ve got from him. Wait, you don’t really understand what the crap I am talking about, right? Yeah I thought so.

        I can only tell you this: with my first website, I was ranking 2nd in google after a week, and I still do. I am not the schmuck who sits on his ass all day and bitches about someone like Ed Dale. I spend my time learning stuff. His internet marketing course was PERFECT for me as back then I was a complete beginner and I can still say without shadow of doubt that I have found NOTHING else like the Challenge, for the exact opposite reasons as all the stupid haters here:

        1. The Challenge never set delusional expectations like all the stupid get rich quick schemes out there (the ones you guys should actually bitch about) like how you are going to earn 659.98 dollars a day ‘from the comfort of your home’ doing some stupid shit. This isn’t a schmuck course, is a course for people who want to learn how to do marketing. It has been THE most realistic, honest and real-life marketing course I have found, and the most practical and simple. And the most HONEST.
        The only little fault I found is Ed’s obsession for the Iphone and all that crap. I just ignored it and I did all the rest. Like Bruce Lee said: ‘Take what you need and throw away the rest’. It’s a very simple and effective concept. I am not looking for perfection, I am looking for things I can use.

        2. I don’t care about Ed’s other stuff about going bankrupt etc. (more of that later) That’s his own business. Unfortunately, that’s the world we live in: someone makes a mistake, and all of a sudden a bunch of little idiots say ‘ah, that guy is a loser’.

        about point 1. above: I even remember an interview where someone asks Ed about all kind of delusional crap like ‘so will I be able to make $$$$ a week and live on a beach’ or some crap like that, and he even said ‘my friend you don’t understand how this work. If you even are able to start a VIABLE business that can even pay you a few bills every month, you should already consider yourself successful’.

        I have heard that from NO other marketer, they all say this bullshit about how to be a millionaire!

        So Ed affiliates for Market Samurai and tries to get some commissions for the sale. So what? So that makes him a scammer? I see lots of idiots going like ‘AH! Got him! He’s trying to sell me something!!’. Yeah, fucking idiots,big DUH ??? You all thought Ed, or John, or Mandy,or Albert, or whoever, had nothing to do that sitting there with their ass in front of a computer to teach some stuff, for absolutely nothing? Get a reality check and grow up, for god’s sake.

        The difference is that Ed wasn’t trying to sell me some useless crap, he sold me one of the best business and market research software programs I came across.

        And so what if he has gone bankrupt? That’s his own business, all I care is what his dealings have been with ME as a challenge user. I am not a stupid ignorant sheep like you guys who judge people for some shit unrelated to me, I look at people in how they have dealt with ME. If they have been honest to ME and they even taught me something good, I’d have to be a complete moron to bitch about them. And anyways, what’s with going bankruptcy ? I know for a fact that almost all wealthy business men in history have gone through that. They all made some costly mistakes. So fucking what? I am not so stupid as to think that just because of that, I have nothing to learn from anybody.

        I actually thank that idiot saltydruid (whatever the hell he’s called) to publish Ed’s modest reply to him because to ME it shows once again who’s this Ed Dale guy. Funny how saltydruid called HIM a pitiful wanker, when I saw the roles exactly reversed. I saw a complete wanker attacking someone for making business mistakes and slagging them off on the web (of course without having the balls to write their real name. You do it just because you can, right, dirty fighter?

        Besides that, I completely fail how Ed Dale going bankrupt makes his product a crap one.

        But hey, that’s the shitty world we live in. Like I said before, in a stupid culture like today’s (prevalent mainly in the USA, Australia, and maybe UK), people go around dishing shit about what it means being a ‘nerd’, being a loser, and pointing at other people for their mistakes. Someone even says ‘man you are right, I made a mistake’, and suddenly all these little assholes with ego problems go ‘ah ah, what a pitiful fucker’. Wow, it’s beyond me. I’ll never understand why this world has such big pieces of living trash. Interestingly, what they, er, ‘say’ about other people, actually say A LOT about themselves.

        There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone, but why calling Ed names like ‘tubbynerd’ and all this shit?

        Wow, I wrote a lot. Time to go. Sorry I won’t have time to read all the other replies, in fact I only have read Marc’s, but I suppose the others are along the same lines, or more negative. As oppose as you I have to attend other things instead better mingling with others of your kind, i.e. whining little bitches. Cheers.

        PS. The Challenge was good, and I wish Ed good luck, and fuck you all.

        1. @Rudolph The Reindeer, Sorry to keep racking this up but I believe Ed Dale sold a course called the “underachiever method” The repeated references that you’ve read on this thread have originated from that product. Again “Tubby Nerd” is a name that Ed uses to describe himself…..If you’ve got something out of his methods then kudos to you, you’re obviously very talented, my only experience of his products is the Immediate Edge and my experience echos that of others on this thread….I just found a complete lack of useable information (though admittedly I just took a $1.00 trial)

            1. @Lanna, $255.00…What’s the betting that the guy is selling it to buy Ed’s Magcaster crap

            2. @Marc,

              Possibly. The seller is definitely neck-deep in Ed and Frank and Dan Kennedy’s shit considering he posted that insane sales letter with photos in the middle. eBay generally isn’t a place where you have to sell someone on a product. They already want a product that’s hard-to-find or cheaper on eBay.

            3. @Lanna, Let’s not get too upset about missing out on this bargain though…A little bird tells me the “challenge” is starting back soon

        2. @Rudolph The Reindeer,

          Rudolph The Reindeer wrote:

          There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone, but why calling Ed names like ‘tubbynerd’ and all this shit?

          OMFG.. RTFM..

          The article is merely linking to Ed Dale’s Actual Facebook Page:


          That’s what Ed calls himself. He’s doing that self-effacing comedy shtick, see?

          Rudolph The Reindeer wrote:

          I have learned very valuable things from it and it costed me a lot of work, and then I hear some stupid losers like you who go around saying people who do that are underachievers?

          Rudolph The Reindeer wrote:

          I have NEVER heard Ed referring to people like me wanting to learn marketing and internet marketing as ‘underachievers’,

          As for ‘Underachiever’–once again this is a reference to Ed’s own marketing materials. The website itself, underachieverlife.com/, is dead now, but, once again from THE FRIENDLY ARTICLE you were so clearly TA;DR about, there’s a link to Wayback Machine of the page:

          The banner in Salty’s article is taken from that page.

          Let’s be clear here: the 30 day challenge that you talked about: at one time that was offered on a website NAMED underachieverlife.com.

          So when you come here and get all shirty about some people calling some other people names … but you do not even know these basic historical points about the guy you’re trying to defend … well … let’s just say it doesn’t help your credibility.

          Rudolph The Reindeer wrote:

          Funny how saltydruid called HIM [Ed Dale] a pitiful wanker, when I saw the roles exactly reversed.

          Yeah, you’re right. Cognitive Dissonance can be funny that way. It can make it so that you see only what you believe instead of the other way ’round.

          Rudolph The Reindeer wrote:

          And so what if he has gone bankrupt? That’s his own business,

          Yes, Ed’s bankruptcy is his business. But… if Ed’s business is.. convincing me and others that Ed’s good at business and that, therefore, I should listen to his business advice then… in that case… the bankruptcy of Ed’s business… is my business…

          That is to say: if Ed’s whole point is to dish out business advice, then if he goes bankrupt that might mean that maybe I don’t want to listen to his business advice.

          Dead, Rudolph The Reindeer:

          I just wanted to thank you for stopping by. See–most of the people come here and say stupid shit– most of the time I have to stay out of it. Because it takes a lot of time and effort to look up links/etc. But you’re ignorance and lazyness–to not even really read the article and to not even really know the first thing about your own wouldbe guru–those mistakes are so basic and make you appear to be so absolutely and utterly ignorant that you make responding to your comment easy.

          So thanks for that.

          To your [and Ed Underachiever Dale’s] success!

          Furry cows moo and decompress.

        3. ‘LOSER!!’

          is that your nickname? ‘Cause it suits you very well, you one-word brainless idiot

    2. @Rudolph The Reindeer,

      The usefulness of The Challenge is a matter of opinion. My personal problem with it, is that it teaches people to write about subjects that they know nothing about, in the hope of passing themselves of as experts in that in that subject.

      It’s just my personal opinion, but I think the world can do without any more people blathering on about subjects that they have absolutely no qualification to talk about, in the hope that they can wrap a few ads around it and make a couple of dollars.

      I myself was caught up in Ed Dale’s marketing funnel for quite some time, and he managed to wrangle quite a lot of money out of me for his paid services which were quite useless. His Immediate Edge program, for example, simply teaches spam techniques for ranking websites using blog networks. The forum was empty and inactive, and when asked, not one other member came forward to answer whether they’d made any money using the techniques. In fact, I know of other members who had their accounts quickly deleted when they innocently asked who was using the Immediate Edge to make money, and what techniques they had success with.

      The biggest problem I had with the Immediate Edge, though, was that in one of the “blueprints” it showed an example of creating a website around a serious disability (I can’t remember what exactly, but I think it may have been dyslexia), in order to make a few bucks from Adsense. I’m sorry, but this is simply morally wrong; encouraging someone who isn’t qualified to create a website about that kind of thing is not only morally questionable, but sets quite a dangerous precedent.

      It’s that kind of thing that I find dubious about the Internet, not this kind of blog. If you do a little research, you’ll quickly find that Salty is anything but a loser, and he’s trying to stop further thousands being extracted from people who can’t afford it, and don’t benefit from it.

      If you feel that Ed Dale has generously taught you something of value, that’s great. But don’t crap on the trauma of other people who feel that they’ve been conned out of a lot of money by Ed and his cohorts. There’s really no need to be so callous.

      1. @Pete Morris, I don’t have time to elaborate about all your points, but I’ll take the first one you wrote:

        ”The usefulness of The Challenge is a matter of opinion. My personal problem with it, is that it teaches people to write about subjects that they know nothing about, in the hope of passing themselves of as experts in that in that subject.”

        And you know what? I ABSOLUTELY agree. And I did not EVER do that and NEVER will, simply because I am not interested in doing a crap job. But even so, I fail to understand how this conflicts with the Challenge. So….what are you talking about? Just write about the subjects you DO know about and apply the rest! That’s exactly what I did, and furthermore, I never heard Ed Dale saying: ‘just write some crap you don’t know about, and if you are a dumbass who dabbles in 300 things and you do them all in a half-assed, bad way, hey, so much the better!’.

        I mean, seriously, are you people idiots? You are unable to adapt what you can learn from others, to your own identity, preferences, ways of thinking, ways of doing things, etc and you go through a course like The Challenge and the best you came out with is ‘my problem is that it’s a matter of opinion as to it’s usefulness and also teaches people how to be dumbass dabblers?’

        Oh man.

        You know, there’s one thing I think of, often: you can have very good mentors, but if you are a bad student, it doesn’t matter. One could have goddamn Aristotle in front of you and not learn jack.

        Obviously, to people like this ‘student’, it would only be Aristotle’s fault.

        Anyways, nice little chat. See ya.

  36. @Rudolph The Reindeer

    Quote: “You are clearly a stupid whining little man-bitch, because if you had better things to do you instead of moaning, you would not go around writing meaningless crap and slagging people off.”

    ..isn’t that exactly what you are doing?

  37. Pete Morris, here’s some of your other points:

    ”I myself was caught up in Ed Dale’s marketing funnel for quite some time, and he managed to wrangle quite a lot of money out of me for his paid services which were quite useless.”

    Let me ask you something: didn’t you sign up out of your own will and entered your credit card detail?

    Then, it’s your fault, not Ed’s. You should have researched more before buying. Not being an asshole, but it’s true. Stop whining. I too went through something similar with SBI. After 8 months I found their methods useless.

    But here’s the thing: I still don’t care about Ed’s other products. I used his Challenge. End of story. I never buy anything expensive without doing lots of research. You signed up for a program, you could have dropped out after the first month, but no, what did you do? You sat on your ass doing nothing for months, being indecisive as if it was or not the right program for you, then all of a sudden you realized the program wasn’t for you, and now you blame Ed Dale.

    ”the forum was empty and inactive”

    And that means, what, wooooh-ooooh…..scammer alert? Yeah it’s a paying forum, so not many people will fork out 100 bucks a month for that ( I wouldn’t either). And? It’s empty, so what? Who cares? either stay or move on.

    ”In fact, I know of other members who had their accounts quickly deleted when they innocently asked who was using the Immediate Edge to make money, and what techniques they had success with.”

    You are saying that Ed Dale had deleted accounts of paying customers and thus lost paying customers simply because they were ‘innocently’ asking if and how someone there made money. How’s that likely to happen? considering the deleted accounts were paying customers, and that these customers would post elsewhere about their experience? Mmmmh….I wonder.

    As for asking people how they make money, you really expect that someone will put their hand up and giving you their success formula, in a forum? Good luck with that….. If such a forum existed, would cost thousands.

    The most you get is GENERAL guidelines, and no one is likely to delete your account for asking about that.

    I am not defending the Immediate Edge or whatever. I don’t care, I don’t have that problem, if I subscribe anywhere, I’ll give myself no more than 2 months to decide if I leave or not, the most I lose out is 50 bucks in all. I now only buy some books and, occasionally, a software program, if it really helps. The Challenge was good, and I speak about Ed in relation to The Challenge. It’s true that there’s loads of crap around, but in my crap list the name Ed Dale doesn’t show up. My own experience has been nothing but positive.

    1. @Rudolph The Reindeer,

      Your arguments are as weak as your command over the English language.

      The fact is that the whole first part of the Challenge revolves around “finding a niche”. This is the process of finding a subject that will be relatively easy to achieve search engine rankings for, and starting a blog about it. Most people do indeed begin passing themselves off as an expert in things they know nothing about. This is well known, and easily provable.

      I’m not complaining about being cheated out of money by Dale. If you read my posts elsewhere on this page you’ll see I’m grateful for it and consider it an education. My point, was that Ed Dale’s sales patter tells lies in order to sell products with little value. That makes him scum, and if you think that’s ok then I’m afraid you’re scum as well.

      You misunderstand my motivations. I’m not involved in Internet Marketing any more, therefore I have no interest in applying the morally dubious lessons of the Challenge. I’m completely uninterested in the idea of making money for the sake of it; one ought to do something worthwhile before they deserve to be paid. Copying and pasting bits and pieces from other people’s work in order to re-write it as your own doesn’t cut it as valuable (yes, another morally bankrupt technique taught by Ed in the Challenge).

      You seem to be a very angry and irrational person. Your attempts to live your dream life and “work from home” don’t seem to have done much for your stress levels. Perhaps you ought to seek help from a medical professional. I would suggest you do a Google search, but on second thoughts I wouldn’t want you to base your mental recovery on information from a “stress management” blog written by an Internet marketer in the stress”niche”.

      The people who come to this site in support of Ed Dale and other scammers always swear and present their side in a thoroughly angry and inarticulate way. I’m afraid you’re not doing yourself any favours by doing this; you just come off as weird and unreasonable.

      You’ve also used the standard argument that most people do when they come here to defend a scammer; i.e. I’m not scammer, my stuff is awesome. If that’s the case then do share, and we’ll all judge your “niche” website on its own merits.

      Usually this doesn’t happen; the trainee-scammer usually wants to keep their website secret, as I’m sure you do yourself. People who have created something valuable, something that they’re proud of, don’t keep it secret. Salty’s website is no secret, and has been featured in top Tech portals; you know, sites who employ real journalists who actually know how to research and write an engaging piece.

      So come on, put up or shut. I bet you don’t fucking dare show us your awesome website.

      1. @Pete Morris,

        ”Your arguments are as weak as your command over the English language.”

        First of all, I speak and write 3 languages, including my own. Actually four, if I include my native local dialect. How many languages you speak, beside being a dick?

        Second of all, I never formally studied any languages. Yep, that’s right. I learned to speak and write English just by reading books written in English. Not too bad, considering I see tons of douches on places like Youtube who ARE native English speakers and can’t spell shit.

        Third, most people whose English is first language, REALLY suck cock at other languages.

        I actually pity your arrogance and idiocy, the reasons why I didn’t even read the rest of what you wrote. Oh, one last thing: have a good fucking look in the mirror, and make a list of all your shortcomings, instead of bitching about my command over my English. The fact is, language-wise, I can piss all over you. You picked the wrong type of battle. Tsk tsk. PS. I am not going to bother replying all the other morons, life is too short to engage in arguments with jokes like you.

        PPS. got to say that, reading more on this website, lots of Saltydruid’s points are good. I could be a convert. Too bad that the rest of you sound like whiny little bitches.

        1. Some more good points, Rud Olph. You clearly have a masterful understanding of the issues.

          If you’d like to actually debate the subject, then please do.

          But you’ll forgive us if we don’t bother to take you very seriously, when you refuse to engage in a discussion of the facts, and instead resort to homophobic musings about “sucking cock”.

          You’re clearly a very angry and unhappy person who needs help.

    2. @Rudolph The Reindeer ::

      Thanks for dropping by and having a 10,000 word spaz … it was awesome. Please come back and spaz whenever … it’s fucking free!

      It’s pretty effing impressive how you managed to get almost everything wrong :: so I say well done to you sir … well done.

      PS … you can’t make money online.

  38. You know what’s funny about all these comments? No one, not ONE person who has stuck up for Ed Dale has shown us a website that he helped them create.

    Not one.

    Come on Dan Raine (because we all know it’s you posting the supporting comments you nasty little con man) show us some success stories.

    If we are all wrong and you and Ed are right, PROVE IT.

    All you need to do is post a link to just ONE website that benefitted from Ed Dale’s influence (I was going to use the word teaching instead of influence, but relating Ed Dale to a teacher is like relating Ronald McDonald to a Chef with 3 Michelin stars)

  39. seriously, I don’t defend any of these people, Ed Dale, Frank Kern….I don’t care. But to write this useless shit and find a few similar sub-moronic fuckers like this ‘author’, who write pointless shit about how somebody else is living his life, makes me wonder what a stupid place the web can be.

    Cut it off, losers, and get a job or find yourself something you like doing instead of writing mindless junk

    1. @Rudolph The Reindeer,’s are obviously very angry.

      But do they have a sense of humor?

      I guess not.

    2. @Rudolph The Reindeer,

      Dude, fuck Santa and fuck your love/hate relationships with surrogate Santas like Ed Dale and Frank Kern. Take that money you were gonna spend on some Ed Dale info-frauduct and get yourself airfare to northern Mongolia. The Tsaatan people will welcome you into their herd:

  40. @Jack, …now it makes sense. Failed to make the sleigh team. His sister was mean to him. Santa was mean to him. Failed to make money on line. Comes to the only site that can help him out. Fails to understand what it is all about. Has a sense of humor failure. Everyone laughs at him *again*. Life is not fair.

  41. Pingback: IM Rant #1
  42. MagCast is now out in full force, being sold as Digital Publishing Blueprint. It’s only a measly 6 payments of $597 or only $2997 if you pay in full now. Better hurry up now, seating is limited for this scammity scam scam scam. If anyone reading this is actually considering buying this crap, do yourself a favor and just go to youtube. At least there, you will be able to find out how to NOT make money online for free, and if really interested in just learning how publish to apple, you can find that there, too. Save your money.

  43. Haha is this the super elite cool IM trolls?

    Serious lols on how pissed off some of you guys are. Really like? It’s amusing. Very infact.

    You shower of bitter cunts. Lighten up. Life is fucking short. Don’t waste it on the internetz bitchin like gang banged unpaid whores.


  44. The info he is giving me some other fraudster would charge for it. Like everybody his actions are self serving. I know this is a ploy to build his business and that’s great. Why should he give me his time for free. I will take what I can from it and move on. Knowledge is power and that’s what matters to me. I know my money stays in my pocket. I ve seen enough to know that most people if not all sell crap for your money. I am not buying period.

    We a all self serving…..period.

  45. My publishing team purchased Magcast when it first came out, ie first founders, it was sold to me as if it was going to be an easy sell – the business model of paid subs within iTunes. After 3-4 months of hard work from myself and my team we went live and it was a complete bomb ie fuck all subscribers, even with a good list and JV friends in the niche helping out. I spent hours researching how to solve it, emailing support, emailing Ed Dale, posting in the paid $97 a month forum at Immediate Edge and also talking to many other Magcasters …soon found out 99% were in the same boat, and many were very experienced marketers and business entrepreneurs.

    I know for a fact that most of the mags published at the start (over 300) were or are not making money. Ed Dale had the business model wrong or was not making it clear. He was saying go for paying subscribers. Never said don’t even consider a digital magazine unless you already have an establish audience in place and even better established advertisers to move over to the digital magazine side. (The digital mag space is best suited to establish hardcopy magazines).

    Spent weeks having to learn ASO (app store optimization) because Ed’s team at the time did not know shit about it, and there was no training on it. His own magazine was badly optimized at the time. Hence they rebranding and name change. ASO is one of the keys to insure your magazine is noticed, especially if you had no established audience and advertisers.

    I had to move my mag to free and just left it at that for now with no more new issues, the cost involved is not worth it, and we don’t have numbers to go get advertisers. You need startup capital to really get it out there. Its a complete waste of time and money if you don’t have any to start with. I have now learnt about all the other alternatives in the market ie mag platforms etc, there are cheaper alternatives to test your ideas like a simple flipbook online that can be viewed on any device. Try that first. Or an online blog on a responsive site, if you are not able to get a mobile device friendly website/blog working and traffic etc why the hell is a digital magazine in the same niche going to work?

    I firmly disagree with the way Magcast is promoted, especially in the latest launch, as if this is super easy, so they draw in the ignorant while in the back door all the first publishing entrepreneurs like me are on to something way more profitable after wasting months and spending thousands. Also Ed Dale has not setup system very well to allow you to sell you magazine so you are fucked really, you have to sell your whole account. There is also no effective Magcast forum, the free one is set up so you don’t even get notices from posts, so it is not active so there is no place to voice your concerns etc. The other forum on offer and the most active is at Immediate Edge where you have to pay $97 a month. There you can post and get the hard questions asked until your post deleted for being too honest (don’t want to discourage the latest bunch of newbies do we Ed).

    Stay away from Magcast unless you have a shit load of startup capital to pour into it to get your subscribers, then advertises etc …fucken lot of work for shit return. Ed Dale and his launches, sales copy and hype is all full of shit, he pulls in the suckers and makes sure there is no way for them to find the truth until it is too late …you might just by luck make it but be prepared to work your ass off.

    1. And otherwise are you actually catching Unicorns?

      Can I recommend you read the Verge article on Scamworld, and also various parts of this blog that talk about “subscribers, even with a good list and JV friends”….

      If you are trying to sell something to people to help them sell that something to other people etc. etc. it all just dissapears into nothing, and everyone apart from a handful of scammers loose wads of money, and much else besides.

      Is’nt it time to do a decent job? – rather than sell info products or info apps to your subscribers who have ‘lists’?

      ‘Lists is people’ is surely a line for a future film, just like ‘Soylent Green is people’ is a line from a film in the past.

  46. He’s back! (Did he ever go away?)

    From the desk of Ed Dale
    Moonee Ponds, Victoria
    January 2015

    Dear Friend,

    I’m looking for “buried treasure” clients I can bring in unexpected jackpots for.

    If that’s you, I will personally work with you one–on–one in your business to help you double, triple, or maybe even quadruple your revenue for the next 12 months.
    The cool bit, you pay nothing out of pocket, ever.

    Here’s why.

    The first thing I’m going to do for you is to personally help you create a strategic action plan to bring in immediate money.

    There is no charge for this and it only takes about 45 – 60 minutes for us to do together. (After doing this for 20 years straight, I’ve gotten pretty good at fast results).

    I’ll even do most of the heavy lifting for you… Telling you exactly what to do, what tests to conduct and where the easiest wins are.

    At the end of this initial strategy session one of these three things will happen:

    1. You’ll love the plan and decide to implement it on your own. If this is the case, I’ll wish you the best of luck and ask you keep in touch with me to let me know how you’re doing.

    2. You love the plan and ask to become my client so I can personally help you execute, maximise and profit from it ASAP.

    If that’s the case, we’ll implement awesome… That’s a promise. I’ve never had an unhappy client – and I’m pretty sure they’re not sticking around because of my animal magnetism!

    3. In the unlikely and unprecedented event you feel like you wasted your time, I will send you $1000 as payment immediately. No questions asked. Your time is your most valuable asset you have, and I totally respect it.

    It’s that simple – there’s no catch.

    Think about this.

    The “worst” that can happen is you get $1000 for “wasting” 45 – 60 minutes of your time.

    The best that can happen is we work together one on one to increase sales and profits several times over.
    That’s why this is the closest thing to free money you will ever see.

    Here’s how we’ll work:

    First, we get on the phone one-on-one and go over your business.

    We take a look at what you’ve got, what you’re doing to get clients and customers, what your product suite looks like, what you’re doing on the backend, and what you want to achieve going forward.

    Once we have those “raw materials”, I help you come up with a strategic plan of action to immediately increase your profits dramatically.

    There are a number of ways I might do this for you.

    I spot an opportunity using “Jobs To Be Done” theory to dramatically increases conversion. Use my “Metric That Matters” strategy to identify areas for immediate growth or “Hot Seat” a funnel to uncover hidden profits.

    And if you have a list of prospects, we’re bound to whip up a quick promotion you can run within days… And get money coming in fast.

    And like I said, there is no charge for this (or awesomeness!).
    So why am I offering this?

    Two reasons:

    First of all, I enjoy helping online businesses, publishers and app developers and others in the niche marketing realm.

    I’ve had an extraordinary time developing MagCast over the past two years and am itching to apply what I’ve discovered to unearth undiscovered windfalls in your business.

    It’s easy for me to get results for businesses like this fast, and I love doing it.

    Plus, it makes me very, very happy to see someone achieve financial success (and all that comes with it) as a result of the help I give them.

    Second of all, it’s how I attract mentoring partners.

    Here’s how that works:

    Assuming the action plan I give you makes you happy… And you want me to crank out these type of plans for you all the time, you’ll probably want to continue working together long-term so I can help you implement them.

    If this is the case, I might invite you to become a client… A one-on-one program built for people in online business, publishing and app development who want to grow their business.

    The “fee” is $4500 a month… But if you think about it, it really doesn’t “cost” you anything.


    Because I expect you to be making much more than $4500 in the first month… And if we keep working together over the next 12 months, I’m confident I can double your entire business… At minimum.

    Actually, I can give you a plan to make more than $4500 during our first conversation – which is free!

    So you will see the value by the time we hang up the phone – without ever spending a cent.

    And look. If you don’t want to become a client, don’t worry about it. You won’t get any sales pitch or pressure from me of any kind, ever!

    In fact, here is my “CAST IN STONE PROMISE” to you:
    You find our conversation to be incredibly valuable or I will pay you $1000 immediately to compensate you for your time.

    Now, obviously this is an amazing offer which you are not going to see every day!!!

    Think about it.

    I’m personally generating a profit–plan for you upfront – for free! – and then letting you pay me later if (and only if) you decide to work together long term.

    Plus, I’m taking it one BOLD step further by guaranteeing you’ll find this free plan immensely valuable – or I’ll pay you $1000 just for wasting your time. Just tell me, and it’s yours. No questions asked.
    Who else would do that?

    I’m prepared to put it on the line like this because my clients always stay with me, send in great feedback, and report great results.


    After all, no one on the planet has helped start more online businesses from scratch than I have. And that’s for a simple reason

    My stuff works, and I know if we work together, you’ll be thrilled with the results we get in your business.

    Consider this:

    Over the past five years, I generated over $43 million in sales for myself and my private clients.

    My last three businesses have been sold for 3 million, 5 million, and $18 million respectively.

    The app publishing platform I founded (MagCast) has been responsible for over 1000 publishers getting started in the App Store making an average of $3750 a month.

    Through the past nine years of the challenge over 300,000 people have started their online business using my methods.

    When it comes to new online marketing trends and technology, I am the person all the industry leaders come to for advice.

    My clients have made millions of dollars from implementing groundbreaking technology and best practices before their competitors. I’d love to do this for you as well.

    Anyway – as you can imagine, I’ll get a LOT of interest from this letter.

    And that’s why I need you to read this next part carefully:
    This is not for everybody. Here’s who I CAN help:

    I’m VERY picky about who I’ll speak with. I’ve got a strict (but reasonable) set of criteria that needs to be met in order for us to proceed.

    Here it is:

    1. You have to have a solid business already.

    This offer is for people who are up and running already and simply want to run a lot faster and a lot further.

    So you need to be in the 100K plus revenue range.

    2. You must have a steady flow of leads and customers.

    This means you’re getting consistent traffic and making sales already.

    You’re running ads, you’re promoting, and you’re selling stuff.

    You don’t have to be “everywhere” or “huge”… I just need you to be PRESENT in your market.

    3. You must have a list.

    It doesn’t really need to be that big… Just responsive. (Finally! Size actually doesn’t matter!)

    4. You must have a good, solid product/service and a good reputation.

    Everything we do together will not only be bringing you more clients, sales, and profits, but we will be doing it in a way that creates MASSIVE goodwill in your market.

    And in order for us to do this, you need to have your act together.

    In other words, you need to be legit.

    5. You MUST follow directions. (Don’t worry, I won’t ask you to do anything weird.)

    After all, if you don’t actually implement the stuff I give you, neither one of us will make money.

    That’s it! Those are my requirements.
    Here’s what I want you to do next

    If you meet the criteria above and would like to talk to me personally about getting you incredible results, I’m prepared to set aside some time for you.

    Here’s how the process works:

    First, you will need to fill in an application. Don’t worry, it’s simple and unobtrusive.

    I just need to know what you’re selling, what you are currently doing, and so forth.

    I’m also going to ask you for a “real person” deposit of $500.

    Don’t worry, I could care less about your $500.

    I’m just using it as a “filter” to keep time-wasters at bay.

    I’ll give it right back after we hang up (unless I take you as a client – and in that case, I can apply it to your balance.)
    Here’s what will happen
    after that:

    Once I have your real person deposit and your application, We’ll set up a time for us to talk. Our initial call will be between 45 and 60 minutes.

    This is where we really begin working to figure out exactly what you want… And how to make it happen.

    I’ll painstakingly review your goals, your offers, and so forth… And I’ll deliver an action plan to bring in money immediately.

    If you see the value in becoming a client, great! We can talk about it.

    And if you don’t want to become a member, – that’s OKAY to.

    I’ll return your deposit as soon as we hang up. No biggie.

    And if you tell me I’ve wasted your time, I’ll give you double your deposit back immediately.

    So you literally can’t lose.

    (By the way – I’ve never had anyone feel like their time was wasted. EVER. That’s why I can make this offer. I DELIVER. Would anyone else take such a risk?)
    Warning – time is a factor.

    This opportunity is extremely limited because of the intense one-on–one time needed in order to provide you with results.

    Therefore, it’s physically impossible for me to work with more than a handful of people.

    Also you should realise demand for personal one–on–one help from me is high, and what I’m offering to you is unprecedented.

    So with that said, know the window of opportunity will be short.

    If you feel like this is right for you, click here, leave your application and let’s talk.

    Speak soon,
    Ed Dale

    P.S.you might be wondering what you “get” as a client.

    The main “thing” you get is me. Personally.

    Like I said earlier, our first conversation together is free and will be around an hour.

    On that conversation, I’ll give you a Profit Action plan specifically for your business – based on what we talked about.

    During the call, I’ll also give you some steps to take immediately for fast results.

    You get the first call regardless of whether or not you become a private client.

    Now – if you DO become a client, you’re going to access me personally… Every second week.

    Here is how a typical engagement starts.

    You’ll have a call with me every two weeks for around 45 minutes. We’ll be coming up with money making strategies, going over metrics looking for new profit windfalls.

    We will also design experiments for you to conduct each week to help get certainty and grow your business.

    My clients tell me just having these calls on the schedule have been a boost for their business – even the boss needs accountability!

    Things are happening all the time and there will be times where you’ll need an answer to something between sessions.

    You’ll get my private email address to email me and if it’s a business day – Ill be back to you in 24 hours (On the weekends I moonlight as my daughters personal Uber driver!)

    Also, I usually charge $10,000 dollars per day to run an on-site client workshop.

    As a private client you’ll have access to one of these each year at no charge. You’ll just need to pay for travel,expenses and accommodation costs.

    My PEQ workshops are famous for delivering incredible insights for companies. By me coming on site I can work with you and the whole team. I’m often used to moderate company off-sites and planning days.

    Let’s face it, this is me working on your business, getting you to come to a three day workshop would be fun but bluntly we’ll get a lot more done working with your team direct. Let’s make this all about you :-)

    You should know the reason I’m able to do such a good job and get such great results from my clients is because I only work with a small handful of them at a time.

    As much as I’d like to work with “everyone”, I simply can’t accept more and still maintain the same level of service you need in order to get the results you want.

    By the way, This is a month to month engagement with no lock in, If either of us is not happy with the engagement, we’ll just finish at the end of the month. No lock in’s or multi-month commitments.

    There are close to 300,000 people on my email newsletter list.The vacancies will fill fast.

    This is a genuinely rare opportunity. This is the first time in two years I’ve taken on new clients. If you weren’t happy where you finished off with 2014, I can help you make 2015 awesome.

    If you feel like this is right for you, click here, leave your application fee and let’s talk. Conversations are granted on a first-come, first–served basis.

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