James Ray Trial Tweets :: May 12th
Now presenting :: the greatest post ever written …
– It’s really nice of Ms. Do to give Dr. Dixon so many chances to look smart. #JamesRay #
– This is a laugh out loud mega ass kicking. Most def worth $400 per hour. #JamesRay #
– “we’ll come back to that” :: dot dot dot :: in another life or something. #JamesRay #
And how!
>> bleep bloop
-------------
More fabulously hilarious writing ::
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- James Ray Trial Tweets :: April 6th Legal arguments about admissibility of prior sweat lodges...
- James Ray Trial Tweets :: March 15th Turn on my trial DVR :: Luis Li...
- James Ray Trial Tweets :: April 1st I can haz testimonyz? #JamesRay – Apr 1...
:: read one now before you die of stupid.
Here’s a link for Sgt Barbaro’s initial testimony to the investigation.
http://www.tragedyinsedona.com/uploads/Supplement__037_Ray_James__Sgt._Barbaro__Frank.pdf
I didn’t realize James Ray tried to throw Ted Mercer under the bus. (Anyone who missed it, he told Sgt Barbaro that “Ted” was in charge of the sweat lodge. Return lower jaw to original position.)
I hope someone got a screen shot of the defense team lining up against the wall behind him, arguing that they want the trial over as quick as possible. Thems the breaks James. A million bucks will buy you a bunch of lawyers who’ll lie and cheat for you, but it won’t buy you loyalty. They got money to make elsewhere, and they don’t give a hoot whether you’re in prison or wandering about killing more innocent people.
WINNER!! ::
+19
[Reply]
jamo Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 1:28 am
@Yakaru, A million bucks won’t buy you much, and when it is gone they are gone.
Injun Samurai had a good post about how much $ these lawyers must be sucking out of Ray. That well has got to be bone dry.
On top of that, Ray is so guilty-as-sin that he has given his “star” lawyers nothing to work with. They are left with no choice but to make asses of themselves. They want outta there. Pronto.
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@jamo,
I can’t help but think the Munger, Tolles and Olson brand isn’t suffering through this trial, including Tom Kelly’s.
None of these three stooges have appeared competent during the trial.
Backs up against the wall, absolutely. They want out!
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 5:57 am
@Bethann,
I always considered the defense attorneys to be in a win – win situation: if they get Ray off, their potential clients will see them as heroes (and we know they’re already popular with The Secret mob) and if they lose, well they still got to display their resourcefulness and the fault is obvious with he culpable loon who caused all this.
But watching their reactions these last few days I was wondering if things might not finish up getting ugly for Team Death Ray. Being an asshole never hurt a lawyer’s reputation in any situation any time ever, but they might not be so keen to experience too many more instances of what Do suffered with Dr Dickson.
[Reply]
Bethann Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Yakaru,
“Being an asshole never hurt an attorney’s reputation in any situation, anytime ever.”
I disagree … professional and public image does matter.
Mark Gerragos, (Scott Peterson, defense attorney), was so completely chastised by the media and the public, and to such an extent he disappeared from interviews for close to three years post the Peterson guilty verdict.
Feldman and Boyce who defended David Westerfield, (Danielle Van Dam case, San Diego), suffered the same fate as Gerragos, and publicly stated they needed protection from an irate public, and negative media attention.
I live in the greater San Diego area and have been privy to local media coverage of Westerfield, Peterson and Ray, and their respective attorney’s. None have survived scrutiny.
High profile cases are needed to build market value and income to a law firm. The negative risk would be a client who is guilty and irredeemable, and Ray certainly qualifies for both.
As to diagnosis …Ray suffers from an anti-social personality disorder, unknown causation.
And as to anyone tied to, “The Secret Mob,” none have made public comments of support, or been at the trial.
Canfield, Byrne, Beckwith … going, going, gone
[Reply]
LaVaughn Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
@Bethann, Bob Proctor has. He went on In Session and talked about how James is a nice young fella. But most of The Secret authors are shunning this whole mess, along with other Secret authors in legal and financial trouble… and that list is growing.
katiecoolady Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 9:44 am
@Bethann,
I followed those 2 other trials too Bethann. Wondering if Scott’s parents/family are all still in the SD area. I was once visiting the area on a wine thing and pulled in to the golf course where he was arrested to just see it for myself and thought what a contrast–this absolutely gorgeous locale straight to incarceration for the rest of his life. It’s chilling really. And Westerfield, I’m just glad he’s gone and forgotten.
I think Defense attorneys can avoid a lot of “branding” like these got by just being scrupulous but they get so enamored with the attention that they end up going overboard, holding press conferences while under gag order (like Luis Li has done in this trial), attacking victims, going down hideous roads of speculation that are futile but inhumane. There is an adequate defense then there is going totally beyond any decency which is a trap many defense atty’s in high profile cases fall in to. They lose the humanity and this “winning at all costs” game kicks in. And these cases are nothing if not about *humanity* so it backfires. Makes ya wanna ask them “was that worth it?”.
AR Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 7:39 am
@Bethann,
Bob Proctor has come out in support of JAR
Everything that could be blamed for what happened, has been blamed. It’s time to look in Ray’s direction. I would love to know who Ray was talking on the cell phone with as Debbie Mercer is making the 911 call from her house. Ray is in possession of a cell phone, and is NOT calling 911 for help. Ray never called 911, not once was there concern for the safety of anyone but himself. I believe it was attorneys Ray was speaking to, who told him to keep his mouth shut. I hope the jury hears how Ray went back to his cabin, took a shower, and was eating when detectives wanted to speak with him. Ray had the detectives told that they needed to talk with Josh, he didn’t want to be disturbed. Now, we hear of Ray pointing a dirty finger at Ted Mercer. Ted was in charge, Ted ran that death lodge. Really Ray??…Look in the mirror Ray, see that image in the reflection, looking back at you? That image is of an arrogant, ignorant, and self-absorbed sadistic killer?…That’s a guilty person looking back at you. That’s you, Ray…that’s you.
WINNER!! ::
+17
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 6:48 am
@Omikse,
I too want to know who he called. And I also want to know where he went, not where he said he went, while the Vision Quest was going on.
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 7:32 am
@katiecoolady,.. I find the fact that Debbie Mercer asked him where the cell phone was, who had it, where this person was, and telling him people were NOT breathing did not prompt Ray to call 911 once he was in possession of a cell phone to be very alarming. Who was Ray speaking with while he was seen with a cell phone when Debbie got back to the lodge site? I still believe he ws speaking with attorneys, who told him to keep his mouth shut and get out of there as quickly as possible. The fact that he showered, and was eating in his cabin, while people had died, and so many went to the hospital is also alarming. No concern, no empathy, just a ‘cover you ass attitude’…dismissive, ‘go talk to Josh’ remark for the detectives who wanted to question him. Then the finger pointing at Ted Mercer for ‘running the lodge’.If you are indeed innocent, why blame someone else right out of the gate when no blame had yet been assigned by anyone, to anyone?
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 9:36 am
@Omikse,
Well I’ve suspected James Ray for a personality disorder from the getgo (not just me but you know, can’t diagnose but he has the classic traits of at least Narcissism). PD’s are a different breed altogether. They simply don’t FEEL or RESPOND with normal human emotions so most of what you experience from them emotionally is them mimicing what they think would seem appropriate for the situation.
I think in a moment of fear his own reactions kicked in which would be geared to 100% focusing on protecting himself. This fits with his not having any instinct, such as Sara Mercer testified to this week, to offer comfort or life saving to participants. To not using his phone to get assistance for anyone but HIMSELF. To him picking up on some *danger* to himself and instantly start redirecting blame. These are not new skills for him…he’s been playing these his whole life, quite successfully. it’s all over Connie Joy’s book.
So in the vein of personality disorders he’s right on cue, ya know?
[Reply]
wondering why Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
@katiecoolady,
Yes, you are totally right.. I was reading the interview with one of his employee’s, Hope Miller, and she stated that he told her to never really do anything about it if someone became injured in one his saminars, he told her that it would bring too much attention to it and people would notice that something was wrong.So he told her to just ignore it and not make a big deal about it..So that was what he was doing, just ignoring it all like it never happened..He got away with it before with Colleen’s death and with all of the other injuries that he caused so he figured he would just ignore the results of the sweat lodge and it would all just magically disappear.. Thank God for the State of Arizona!!!
[Reply]
wondering why Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@wondering why, I meant seminars!
Rubies Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
@wondering why,
I understand that JAR did indeed travel to Egypt where you know there is…de Nile. He had to have brought home with him something of that.
I think he was on his cell phone calling his mommy when there were people all around him injured and dead:: WHaaaaaaa!! Mommy I’m soooo scared. They’re gonna hurt me………….Gotta hang up now mommy, I need to talk to my lawyers and my banker.
Jean D Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
@katiecoolady, There was a post on this blog or another one,quite some time ago, in which someone from Sedona said he/she saw Ray at coffee shops with his laptop during SW week. I’ll try to locate that post.
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
@Jean D,
Interesting….I’m familiar with all the coffee shops in Sedona…that would be interesting to know his doings during that time, incidentally when he was getting PAID to not be there.
[Reply]
AR Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 7:45 am
@katiecoolady, We probably won’t find out who Ray called – unfortunately, there is so much that the jury will never hear in this case -
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 9:01 am
@AR,
Ya know, I wonder how the jury will feel if they learn he was on the phone w/ his PR person or something while people were all around dying and injured and others, like a 17 year old girl, trying to save them. Ya know?
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 10:02 am
@katiecoolady,…it would be fitting and just for the jury to ask, and get an answer as to who Ray was on the cell phone with ( and if he placed more than 1 call)…we know it wasn’t a 911 call, those have been documented and accounted for. If it was attorneys or his PR person, case closed. And, it was just a short while after that ‘call or calls’ that he stated Ted was in charge of the lodge.
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
@Omikse,
Wow I wonder if the jury asked that question if it would be allowed to be answered. Ya know? Not sure I’ve ever heard a jury question with the response “I’m sorry we can’t answer that”. But I suspect if some of us are curious about that factoid, some jury members are too.
Omikse Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 6:22 am
katiecoolady…while I really would love to know who he called, and what the conversation was…sadly, I don’t think we will ever know for sure. The oppertunity for the jury to have asked that question was when Debbie Mercer brought up the cell phone in her testimony. At the close of that business day, when Debbie was finished, they were asked if they had any questions…there weren’t any asked.
Another good point would be about Ray stating to detectives that Ted was in charge of the lodge. Clearly, everyone who has testified and was in the lodge, or tending outside the lodge stated very clearly that Ray was in charge. I hope the jury retains that piece of knowledge.
2Tired2 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 10:35 am
@AR, @Katie
Did Sheila & the gang ever get Jimbo’s cell records?
(cell records show up in most trials)
If they didn’t, why not?
(this topic of cell records may have been discussed…but, y’all know my lame brain) TeHe
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@2Tired2,
I also wonder if the state knows who he called. Personally i would bet he wasn’t calling his lawyers because I doubt he had registered at that time that he might potentially be in trouble. Also, it seems to me that he may have misled his lawyers about the extent of his idiotic behavior; something they would have known if he had have called and said “Hey guys, I think I just cooked maybe a dozen or more people to death. No I haven’t called 911. Jeez, I need a shower. I’ll call you back later when I’ve finished me lunch.”
So I reckon he was either calling a harem member or ordering a pizza.
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@Yakaru,..it could have been lawyers, he had been in legal trouble for awhile before 2009…so, for him, a dawning of comprehension that he screwed up again was not so farfetched.
Former attendees of Ray’s seminars have reported unsafe practices and lack of properly trained medical staff in 2005. A New Jersey woman shattered her hand after she was pressured by Ray to participate in a quasi-martial arts board-breaking exercise. After several unsuccessful untrained attempts, the woman sustained multiple fractures during the seminar that was held at Disney World.
Participants of a Ray’s “Spiritual Warrior” exercise in 2006, after signing waivers, were told to put a sharp point of an arrow used in archery against the soft part of the neck and lean against the tip. A man named Kurt sustained injuries during this exercise as the shaft snapped and the arrow point deeply penetrated his eyebrow.
In 2005, preceding the tragic events of October 2009, a serious injury involving hospitalization was reported at the Angel Valley Ranch during a “Spiritual Warrior” retreat led by Ray. Verde Valley Fire Chief Jerry Doerksen’s department responded to an emergency call that a 42 year old man had fallen unconscious after exercises inside the sweat-lodge.
In July 2009, Colleen Conaway attended a seminar hosted by James Ray International in which the attendees were directed to dress as homeless people. She fell to her death at the Horton Plaza Mall in San Diego. She died as a result of injuries, and according to police, she had no identification on her person.
Maybe it was attorneys he called, judging from this list, he might very well have had them on speed dial.
2Tired2 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@Yakaru,
I totally believe you’re right, Yak
After all, lil Jimbo thought he was above the law.
I bet he didn’t even know how to spell law-ya or a-turn-e.
As for speed dial on his phone ~ they haz theese lil numbahs on dere & without Megan or Josh, and the sandwich mayonaise smeared on his hands…prolly couldn’t make that call (‘cept to the Gourmet Pizza Paulor)
Omikse Reply:
May 19th, 2011 at 5:15 am
@2Tired2,…I wonder if Ray’s ring tone on his cell phone is ..”Oops, I did it again” ( nod to britney Spears)
[Reply]
2Tired2 Reply:
May 19th, 2011 at 10:44 am
@Omikse,
Oh, yeah…the ring tone ~ I think it was “I Shot the Sheriff, But I Didn’t Shoot The Deputy”
OR
the ring tone he DIDN’T pick was “I Fought The Law And The Law Won”
Unrelated, but if you get bored…
https://imtrustworthy.com/
Private WhoIs, but the “trademark” that isn’t in the TESS database is claimed by Higher Level Strategies, which is registered to your favorite gnome…
Nothing quite like changing the definition of “trust”, is there?
[Reply]
Clark Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 2:42 am
@Fake Non-Droid,
https://imtrustworthy.com/prudent_practices.php?uid=14345
How many of the syndicate-type guru crowd would fail these rules alone?
I love the fake signature btw.
[Reply]
_cartman_ Reply:
May 31st, 2011 at 1:53 pm
@Fake Non-Droid,
Not a surprise…everything old is brand spanking “new” again….
http://web.archive.org/web/20040401215529/http://the-no-spin-zone.com/aboutus.php
and who owns it…
Domain name: the-no-spin-zone.com
Registrant Contact:
MikeFilsaime.com, Inc
Michael Filsaime ()
http://whois.domaintools.com/the-no-spin-zone.com
and…front and center on that page….is his banner ad….
http://web.archive.org/web/20040323051539/http://carbon-copy-marketing.com/
[Reply]
{ – - Hyperthetically Ms. Do – - }
A brief review of Ms. Do’s Hypothetically Excellent Cross
Ms. Do: Hypothetically, Dr. Dixon, if these people’s symptoms indicated organophosphate poisoning, then you be be wrong correct?
Dr. Dixon: I’d be ‘wrong correct’? What does that mean?
Ms. Do: Correct, hypothetically assuming you were wrong correct, then you’d be wrong correct, correct?
Dr. Dixon: Well, hypothetically, if they died from hypothetical poisoning, then they’d be hypothetically dead, and being hypothetically dead would merit a hypothetical trial, this is a real trial, so therefore, they are not hypothetically dead and could not have died from hypothetical poisoning.
Ms. Do: A HA! So you’re hypothetically the outlier here, hypothetically the four other doctors all agreed organophosphates killed these people, that makes you liable for hypothetical malpractice doesn’t it, correct?
Dr. Dixon: Well, to be technical, lawyers, hypothetical or otherwise don’t accept hypothetical payment from hypothetical patients, so there has never been a case of hypothetical malpractice that ever made it to hypothetical court.
Ms. Do: Exactly, my point!!! When you assume that hypothetically these people did die of organophosphate poisoning, that makes Ted Mercer responsible correct?
Dr. Dixon: I… I don’t understand the question, ‘hypothetically assume…’ How can you hypothetically assume something? You either assume something or you don’t, you can’t hypothetically assume something…
Ms. Do: Yes you can. I’m not going to get into an argument here with you, I’ve asked you the same question now for two days, all you need to do is agree with me and we can move on… So I’ll ask you again: Simply this – If you hypothetically Assume that hypothetically Ted Mercer sprayed REAL Sarin gas into that lodge, then hypothetically, these people may possibly have maybe died of organophosphates and Ted Mercer is hypothetically responsible, wrong correct?
Dr. Dixon: Hypothetically, you’re a flying pig Ms. Do, and if you hypothetically ask a coherent question I assume I could answer it…
Mr. Li: I hypothetically object to that your honor, Ms. Do is a real fly pig not a hypothetical one. This witness is being argumentative and refusing to be led.
Mr. Kelly: I also hypothetically object here judge, the prosecution is just sitting there, not objecting and letting us look like idiots. They are giving us enough hypothetical rope to hypothetically hang ourselves, and that’s Hypothetical Murder 1.
Judge Darrow: I can neither sustain nor overrule hypothetical objections to the prosecution’s lack of real objections. Ms. Do, please continue…
Ms. Do: Dr. Dixen, what is the difference between hypothetical and hyperthetical?
Dr. Dixon: Great question, hypothetical means to pretend, or make believe, like ‘Hypothetically, James Ray is innocent.’ You pretend it’s true for sake of discussion. Hyperthetical means ‘death from an excess of hypotheticals’. It’s very uncommon, but you may be approaching toxic levels of hypotheticals.
Ms. Do: Got it. So you’re telling this jury that you believe James Ray is hypothetically innocent? Correct?
Dr. Dixon: No, when you believe a hypothetical which is totally irrational, it becomes a delusion. So I would say, it’s delusional to believe James Ray is innocent, not hypothetical.
WINNER!! ::
+27
[Reply]
what?? Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Injun Samurai,
The entire cross by Truc Do was summed up perfectly by SD’s three tweets and your comment. I applaud in your general directions.
[Reply]
Injun Samurai Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 8:26 am
@what??,
Glorious Irony…
People not watching the trial read my little summary and think, “That’s a ridiculous parody.”
But the people who are watching the trial see my little summary of Do’s absurd behavior think,
“Wow, That’s surprisingly accurate.”
:-)
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 8:57 am
@Injun Samurai, …”surprisingly accurate”…it’s like you created a time capsule of …”The Truc Do Court Room Follies”…rated “R” for the possibility of irrevocable brain damage, with rapid-fire speech patterns and the uncontrollable urge to sashay. “Correct?” ( Thong not included)
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 6:49 am
@Injun Samurai,
Delusional! Love it.
[Reply]
2Tired2 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@Injun Samurai,
absolutely bee-reelent…Clap-clap-clap
(Oh, shootz, you got the clap?)
Thanx for the great post:-)))
[Reply]
This stupid non-post needed to be deleted … but now you’ve gone and left good comments and it has to stay.
“Just move the comments to another post” :: you say.
Fuck you. Don’t give me errands.
[Reply]
2Tired2 Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@SD,
While you’re out on your non-errands, can you pick up some cat food?
Meanwhile, I’ll gladly fill ya in on http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream4
I was gonna send the kitties over to Bojangles, ‘cept, they are tired of that.
Atty Kelly is beating up on Sara Mercer. Bad, bad Mr. Kelly. (she is hanging in there, tho)
Okey-dokey ~ again ~ where are we supposed to post? I am very old & get coRnfused…yep…CoRnfused.
*yawn*
I’ll figure it out…dips into the Aricept dish.
[Reply]
I hope she sues them for PSTD because she did suppress the whole incident. Of course, she couldn’t talk about it. It was too traumatic. Leave the kid alone. Here we go again with trying to make her look like a liar or an idiot. HOpefully the jury has gotten tired of this and is p.o.’d at seeing this child brought through hell.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
can we block this stupid kindergartner argument and stick to the real issue?
[Reply]
How come no one suspects super hydration combined with heat stroke? Drinking too much water can kill you and that was another piece of advice that JR did: hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. So maybe those that suffered the most were good little soliders who drank to much water! It’s starting to look like he deliberately wanted to kill people.
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 10:18 am
@Linda, ….as far as I know, no one got any water during the Death Lodge if they remained inside….during Native lodges, water comes into the lodge to drink between rounds. I have heard no one say they were given water while inside. Hydrating is important to do, you sweat, alot, inside during the rounds. I don’t think anyone drank too much water…it hasn’t been an issue brought up by the prosecution or the defense at this point. Either way, Ray poured the water onto the heated stones inside the lodge, to the point that it was to hot for some to survive. Ray knew there was a problem with some people, but wanted to deal with it always “after this round”….Ray did not want to stop.
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 11:25 am
@Omikse, @Linda Although he said hydrate, hydrate it seems he didn’t provide water for them to do so. Part of the crazy-making that went on. At lodges I’ve been to in Oklahoma, we go out and drink water outside from a bucket with a ladle and can pour it over us before going back in. Reports have circulated that Ray&Co were drinking from the bucket,splashing themselves, but not sharing.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 11:53 am
@Jean D, ..yes, one witness, I forget who it was, said that Ray could be seen when the door was opened to be sitting with his arm(s) in the bucket cooling off…but no water went into the lodge for drinking. If some people never went out during the break between each of those 8 rounds, then they never got a drink. A true Death Lodge.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
jamo Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@Omikse, Plus Ray got pissed when people had to take a piss.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@jamo, …yup….he told them to just “go where you are” inside the lodge…but, to open up the back of the lodge, when it was over, to drag the dead and dying out, well…that would be a “sacrilege” Ray said….Really…go figure.
WINNER!! ::
+8
Linda Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@Omikse, Well, it was just a thought…because the defense keeps saying that DeathRay kept telling them to hydrate, implying that maybe they didn’t and that’s why they died.
Hey my favorite line from this whole trial is now “Hypothetically pigs can fly ….”
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Linda, …I have always thought that too. The defense keeps harping on that point of “hydrate, hydrate, hydrate” as if to say..”See, Ray told them to drink…and if they had stayed hydrated they would not have died. Ray did the very best he could do. It is not his fault they didn’t hydrate.” Blame the victims…it was their fault.
[Reply]
Linda Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
@Omikse, yeah, we’re on the same page with that one. They are probably looking for any way they can get a mistrial. I would think the jury would be sick and tired of this accusatory and condescending attitude they have toward everyone. Can’t the prosecution state that no matter what caused the problem, the fact that he put them through all that abuse first and then told them they would feel like they were going to die and then failed to help anyone as sufficient to convict him?
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@Linda, They were not allowed to hydrate on the fake vision quest. No water allowed for days. I assume they thought saying “hydrate” would cover their asses. Just like telling someone to eat when there’s no food in the house. Or anything. There’s an old phrase: “Sayin’ ain’t doin”
Dr. Dickson put to bed any chance of organophosphates being a cause of the deaths in JAR’s lodge or any toxin for that matter. The defense has really no where else to turn unless they try for diminished capacity by JAR from his steroid use, but it’s way too late for that since it was not allowed as evidence from the items seized from his cabin.
Right now I think JAR is toast regardless of the upcoming testimony by Dr. Paul for the defense.
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 6:54 am
@Rubies,
I’ve said from the beginning this trial will hinge on “free will” arguments, not rat poison, ant poison, organophosphates or any of that. Did he in any way recklessly put these people at risk? That was asked and answered by Sara Mercer and he’s a goner, imo. The best they’ve got is hoping for a mistrial at this point and doesn’t look like Judge D is takin that bait.
[Reply]
The defense has made a list of possible reasons for the deaths and related injuries …
…rat poison, ant poison, weed killers, veggie diets, tainted water, tainted fruits, tainted vegetables, tainted soil, tainted rocks, wood with nails, wood without nails, pressure treated wood, wood sealer, poor construction practices, no building permit, no building inspection, CO2, poor ventilation, organophosphates, the victims failure to exercise their ‘free will’, Ted Mercer’s running of the lodge, and various other directional finger pointing. The cause of death was hyperthermia, heat stroke.
In the cause of death, the defense would have you believe it is like a Chinese menu where you can pick 1 from column “A” and 2 from column “B”. Sadly for the defense, there is only Ray left to choose. Ray, with his store bought tan, his hair nicely colored, and his face plumped out from the steroids. At least Ray will look good for his ‘reception’ with the other inmates. Somebody remind him to wear clean underwear…..
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 9:40 am
@Omikse,
I totally agree. Throwing all of these options against the wall, when it’s no big mystery the cause of death for these people, is starting to look like a Hail Mary defense for the team here. I mean if the heat argument were even arguable then, maybe. But this is just pure common sense–these people were placed in this hot environment far too hot for far too long with far too little compensations.
Again I think the argument is going to boil down to ” did they give up their free will and did JAR force them to stay in there?”. And I think Sara Mercer answered that question loud and clear this week.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Stoic Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 2:02 am
@katiecoolady,
The prosecution seems to be doing a great job of letting all these spurious ‘reasons’ be aired and eventually exhausted.
They are ‘showing’ their case, allowing the audience- jurors and others- to see for themselves how nonsensical all these various theories are when looked at closely and critically, until the real culprit- the excessive heat and attendant physical problems that JAR deliberately and systematically subjected them- to stands exposed and alone.
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 9:35 am
@Stoic,
It’s like the DT is on a runaway train. They developed a strategy and are stickin to it like glue. It’s called object constantly, call sidebars, demand mistrials, perform lengthy nonsensical repetitive cross examinations trying to trap witnesses to saying something other than what they mean, etc. All of this is WEARYING. That last day I sat in the courtroom you could feel the exhaustion like a heavy blanket over everyone, including the Judge. I don’t think that approach is very *winning* but in the long run, it’s helping the State.
[Reply]
AR Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 8:00 am
@katiecoolady, Yes, the core of this case is “did they have free will to leave”? How could they if they were unconcious?
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 9:02 am
@AR,
Exactly.
[Reply]
Let’s see:
He builds them up through various seminars to drain their bank accounts.
When he gets them to pay for this ultimate experience he does the following: 1. Gets them to view him as God by physical and psychological torture which taps into their concern for others by preventing any objection because it will cause others to die. 2. Then he sends them on a phoney Vision Quest ( “a learning and initiation process of the apprentice under the guidance of an elder…The technique may be similar to sensory deprivation methods.” – thanks Wikipedia) Who was the elder? They probably viewed him as the elder. 3. And now they are in a state of deprivation and imbalance both physically and mentally and he has them attend a sweat lodge where he assures them they will feel like they are dying but they won’t. Let’s remember he is God, the elder, the leader now. 4. Ignores their cries for help. 5. Walks away after he gets his thrills (orgasmo-phosphates?) from leading people to their demise and then 6.Denies any involvement and puts the blame on the victims, Ted Mercer, pesticides, nails, wood, etc. 7. Finally uses the money they paid him to support his defense team while he sits there with complete lack of compassion for the pain many participants are expressing. The only difference between him and the Rev. Jim Jones is he went after the people with money and promised them heaven on earth, and Jim Jones went after the poor and helpless. Why didn’t he just charge them the $10,000 for a couple of waterboarding sessions to find out how to drain the rest of their assets and get it over with? I wonder how he will be treated by inmates in pink underwear at that Arizona prison. Or will he get a separate cell to protect him from the gang?
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@Linda, …At least Jim Jones, while his followers drank the cyanide-laced flavor-aid, put a bullet in his own head ( although someone may have done it for him..)
Ray seems to believe his own hype to a degree…he did give the “Alpha and the Omega, I am god” speech while inside the lodge. ( sorry folks, I will only allow Ray the use of a small “g” here.)
I agree with Katiecoolady, Ray does seem to have a personality disorder. Does that get him off the hook?..Hell NO! He knew he had taken his warrior hype to far. Ray was trying to deflect his guilt by pointing the finger of guilt at Ted Mercer within a few hours of the end of that death lodge. He knew he had crossed the line. After all, he had flirted with that line for many years.
As for placing Ray in a private cage in prison…I say let him be in general population. Maybe he can convert a few into believing his ‘Alpha and Omega’ crap. Let’s see how the other inmates like his “warrior retreat” behind bars. Go ahead Ray, talk to them about the Laws of Attraction…..
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
@Omikse, Good point about Jim Jones. And Koresh, Marshallwhite committed suicide;these 3 all believed it was “time” for their messiahness to be redeemed. Because he had attorneys-on-retainer,Ray simply put his cell phone to his ear and sent the vermin scurrying to make calls, also. Despicable.
[Reply]
Stoic Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 2:11 am
@Linda,
‘Why didn’t he just charge them the $10,000 for a couple of waterboarding sessions to find out how to drain the rest of their assets and get it over with?’
That would have been too quick a resolution for Ray to get his kicks. He is in love with his own fantasy of control over others, finishing them off too quickly would have deprived him of the drawn out satisfaction at the demonstration of his own power that he craves.
The joy of torture (for the torturer) is ended when the victim dies. A torturer who is proficient at his business aims to keep his victim alive, and suffering, as long as possible.
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 9:37 am
@Stoic,
Eegads Stoic, you’ve been saying what’s on my mind about him. The metaphor I’ve used is it’s like he’s using *people* on this big chess board where he gets to play against God. Moving them around …oops, checkmate. Then he ups his game. This is some really dark disturbing crap and not without multiple casualties, many still alive.
[Reply]
Kalista7 Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
@katiecoolady, and there could be many with long lasting problems that can’t be directly proven to being in his sweat lodges… like the one witness who said he still has memory problems and can’t concentrate, etc. Sad.
[Reply]
Linda Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@Stoic, makes sense on this one…I wonder if he’s related to Josef Mengele.
[Reply]
2Tired2 Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 9:37 am
@Linda,
“Josef Mengele”
Great point, Linda ~ didn’t JAR make a trip to South America?
Where many of “those types” still exist?
[Reply]
Linda Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@2Tired2, Yes he did. I think it was the whole Macchu Picchu scam referred to in Connie Joy’s book. And those evil types exist all over the world. Reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode where they finally have Satan trapped and some innocent fool comes in and releases him. Evil is everywhere. I wonder if he tortured small animals in his youth like many serial and mass murderers. One of those who love to see living beings suffer. Like Joran van der Sloot and the thrills he gets out of torturing Natalee Holloway’s mom. I remember someone who knew Ted Bundy writing in a book that she knew him when he counseled people on a suicide hotline and finds it hard to reconcile the killer with the person who seemed to truly care for others. In retrospect, he was probably getting a kick out of knowing other people were in pain when they called and spoke to him.
[Reply]
Stoic Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@Linda,
There was a report from someone who knew him in Oklahoma as a child that he enjoyed torturing cats by choking them to the point of death and then reviving them.
Nice kid.
I think JeanD dug that up right at the beginning of this.
2Tired2 Reply:
May 19th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@Linda,
Thanx, Linda…!
There is much more outside of Ms. Joy’s book…yet, that’s a good start…!
***
While I have this pulled up…everybody
I was looking thru the JR pleadings to see if any cell records were requested ~ I’m not seeing, so far…hunt & seek?
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/03-04-2010%20MISCELLANEOUS-DISCLOSURE-SUPPLEMENTAL%20DISCLOSURE.pdf
(might be in a later pleading)
Also ~ I ran across this old article with an interview with the wonderful Jimbo: (gag me)
I just stumbled on it today ~ most of y’all have prolly read it:
http://nymag.com/news/features/63259/index2.html
2Tired2 Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
@Linda, @katiecoolady
Reach far back into history to Plato. Then go to the theory of stoicism.
Then reach for the Illumaniti. Then the various knights. Then the Freemasons.
There you will find your answers about James Arthur Ray.
(did I leave out reptillian?)
I’m not joking around. So much to say & so much to research.
In the meantime…
Y’all have a good ‘un *waves*
[Reply]
Cannot believe this. This tweet was just sent from JamesARayJames Arthur Ray’s phone. Seriously?
“I am friggin in love w/the bruenett asian.”
[Reply]
Anne Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
@Jean D, Maybe Truc hacked his twitter account.
[Reply]
LaVaughn Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
@Jean D, I just looked at Ray’s timeline and I’m not finding it. Did you get a screen capture?
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
@LaVaughn & @JeanD, I don’t see it on the timeline either, but ABC’s Dan Harris apparently saw it too…
http://twitter.com/#!/danbharris/statuses/69562011276689408
Maybe the minion who is tweeting for Death Ray was feeling a bit mischievous, and then thought better of it.
[Reply]
LaVaughn Reply:
May 14th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
@Cosmic Connie, Yuppers. I know. I got screen captures of his and someone else’s retweet. Holy crap!
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@Cosmic Connie, Hermia Nelson is also Asian. I’ve often wondered if she tweets for him.
[Reply]
Jean D Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
@Jean D, Here’s a link to her facebook with links to her scam sites. Early on in this case her twitter account wasn’t blocked. She pursued Ray hot and heavy to get him to speak at events with some very romantic interest shown. When he got out on bond, she tweeted something like “The New James Ray emerges” I assumed she was getting him hooked up with a cosmetic surgeon. http://www.facebook.com/hermia.nelson
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@Jean D, …I notice she does not have Ray listed as one of her 2184 friends on facebook….I hazard a guess that he is not enamored of her.
Her listed favorite quotation is:”Energy Flows Where Attention Goes!” James Arthur Ray
Top 3 Passions:
1) Bring Light into darkness (no matter how dimmed a light is it always vanishes darkness)
2) Do business with whomever, wherever, whenever I want
3) Love and be loved unconditionally
Okay…so #1..tiny light…Ray’s light is very dim.
#2..Okay, she could do business with Ray…no moral high ground here.
#3..it’s a good thing she stresses the “unconditional” part…I would have deep reservations about Ray.
Omikse Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 5:55 am
@Jean D, ..if I were Truc Do,(with the assumption that she is normal way deep down inside),….there would not be enough soap and hot water in the entire world to make me feel clean again!…Maybe that is why she wan’t in court last Thursday, the gross-out factor became to much for her to handle. I knew those thongs were going to be trouble for her.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Linda Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
@Omikse, I noticed she wasn’t there on Thursday. I just wonder if she is suffering from emotional cognitive dissonance. She was absolutely brilliant when she called Phil Spector a demonic maniac who played Russian Roulette with the lives of women. Now she is trying to make the victims look like the guilty ones. Perhaps she is just a sociopath with no conscience.
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@Linda, …well, I am sure Do did well as a prosecutor, but I am willing to bet all of Do’s “Corrects” to date, and throw in a few pair of thongs that Ray pays better than the prosecutors’ office.
I know everyone deserves a defense, but you can see what some will do for the money, as well as what money will do to some. I wonder how well Do sleeps at night? I wonder how Kelly and Li do too.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@Omikse,
I think the only trouble those sharks would have sleeping at night would be from wondering how to get out of this jam without losing face or wasting too much energy.
Do joined MT&O a few weeks after the death lodge, so she was obviously brought on board specifically for this case. Seems that Death Ray either lied to them about what a total asshole he’d been, or they totally underestimated the tenacity of the investigators, and the degree to which Ray’s followers were pissed off.
From the white papers it’s clear they had no idea of the amount of evidence the state would (or could?) amass. They also seriously considered using people like Kristina Bivins and Caren Wendt to testify that previous lodges were safe, so Ray couldn’t have expected problems.
I wonder if that tweet about being friggin in love with Do might just be the final straw for the defense team to just go through the motions and get this over and done with as quickly as possible.
[Reply]
Omikse Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
@Yakaru, …I was thinking about the white papers recently…it was a view from Ray’s position only. It was a supposition written by Ray’s attorney(s) for all to ponder. I wonder if that white paper was written to stop the arrest and trial from taking place. Maybe as a way to difuse the situation, to answer only the questions they felt comfortable in answering. The white papers as ‘smoke and mirrors’.A chance to say “See, we have nothing to hide.” The finger pointing began with the white papers.
I have been wondering what the defense thought about Ray’s comment “Ted was in charge of the lodge”…there was no way that was possible when witness after witness testified that Ray ran the lodge, called for heated stones, buckets of water, when the door would open, when the door would close…it wasn’t Ted who was in charge. I also wonder how the attorneys felt about the “Alpha & Omega, I am god” remarks inside the lodge…we haven’t heard a good spin on that from the defense yet.
Perhaps the defense will be short, and not so sweet, I guess it would depend on just how much money Ray has paid so far, and how much ( if any) he has left. Maybe it will be like a band-aid, rip it off quick to save on the pain and embarrassment, not Ray’s pain or embarrassment, but the defense attorneys.
Jean D Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@Yakaru, Or that tweet was made by Hermia Nelson about herself. Misspelled and redundant.
White Rabbit Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 10:56 pm
@Omikse,
“I have been wondering what the defense thought about Ray’s comment “Ted was in charge of the lodge”…”
It is really hard to spin doctor this as an accident when you throw out the most transparent lies coming right out of the gate. James dug his own grave when he cooked people to death in the sweat lodge and then never made any moves to help anyone in any regard afterwards. He double dug it when he told the Detective that Ted ran the lodge, there were only 40 people in there and that he lived in Las Vegas, all very easily verifiable untruths.
Does he think he is The Shadow and can cloud men’s minds?
“It is not our abilities that show what we truly are, it is our choices.” — Albus Dumbledore
Kalista7 Reply:
May 21st, 2011 at 4:16 pm
@Yakaru, Agreed! The DT had no idea of a lot of things ~ I could tell by their surprised + ticked off reactions at different times. If they weren’t so mean to witnesses, I might feel sorry for them, lol… I had to laugh at the White Papers, esp. when they said that Ray was trying to help ~ yeah, he was helping himself to dinner.
Kalista7 Reply:
May 21st, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@Yakaru, I’m sure the Defense didn’t like the “friggin in love” tweet. Just another example of many surprises for them.
Omikse Reply:
May 17th, 2011 at 7:29 am
White Rabbit…As for the remark Ray made to the detectives about Ted being in charge of the lodge….well, no way to spin that and make it smell like roses instead of a large load of manure.
As for Truc Do and the court room follies, maybe
all the defense attorneys will distance themselves even further from their client…like rats abandoning a sinking ship…”Last one off, grab the money!”
[Reply]
Wow. Just finished reading Connie’s Joy’s Tragedy in Sedona. She mentions several times that what he did was cook people to death or to physically and mentally damaged states. Very appropriate. It’s too bad all the things people shared with her about that lodge could not be shared at the trial. It describes it in much detail. Also her history of finding out how many things he lied about and ways he misled people are interesting. Too bad he was so good at it. It enabled him to hide his sociopathic ways.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
@Linda,
I finished that book last weekend and the descriptions of his hot/cold abusive behavior to followers was positively Pavlovian. Intermittent reinforcement. It still astounds me the $$$ people basically spent just to get close to him (they certainly weren’t getting much else out of it). It’s mind boggling actually. Utterly mind boggling to me.
[Reply]
ChrissyLincoln Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@katiecoolady, Just got Connie’s book for Kindle this AM… wow what a total creepy machine JAR is… I thought he got married in Hawaii? I know I read that somewhere.
[Reply]
White Rabbit Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
@ChrissyLincoln,
There was a marriage license in 2004, I believe. Maybe there is yet another body somewhere if Pele didn’t consume her.
[Reply]
2Tired2 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
@katiecoolady,
Pavlovian ~ yes, it is, Katie. Yet, in this case, it’s humans, not dogs.
Talk about minions, sheeples, followers, brainwashed…throw some money in the pot & you’ve got JAR AND his goon-squad. And, I repeat, reptillian.
[Reply]
Hey Salty,
I just landed on a page on your site here that showed a “montage” header with a, what appears to be male, perhaps James Ray, in a wedding dress complete with veil all the way to the right. There has to be a story that I’ve missed here regarding this…;)
PS. you crack me up!
[Reply]
SD Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@katiecoolady ::
Just the facts around here …
http://saltydroid.info/new-years-wedding/
… just the facts.
[Reply]
katiecoolady Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
@SD,
Oh dear and to think I missed this *other* Royal Wedding. Too funny.
[Reply]
Anonymous Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
@katiecoolady, @SD. I guess it’s the sign of a true narcissist when their bride looks just like them. Wink wink
[Reply]
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