115 Comments »

Nikki said:


“Okay so maybe they didn’t make any non-JRI friends :: but you know how the UnHarmonically Minded™ tend to cock block the quantum energy of your universal oneness :: etc.”
Yep, Jay-Ray mentioned that in one of his emails this week:
“(Harmonic Wealth-minded individuals run in the same circles and study the same things)”
Do you think he’s asked his followers / homies to ‘show their commitment’ (I’m referencing Team America by the way).
The thought makes me somewhat green, and not in an Incredible Hulk kind of way.
As for the Fredricksons – when would now be a good time to grow a pair? Denial just doesn’t work forever…the truth will out eventually.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Myrra Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
@Nikki, Too Funny – Best Team America reference EVER!! And it’s just that much better because I know, I just know, that is exactly how he makes his followers show their commitment.
  +4
[Reply]

Ross Jeffries Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
You mean this Team America?
  0
[Reply]

Ross Jeffries Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
@Ross Jeffries,
Rock and roll…internet…slavery!
  +4
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 5:12 am

hrm said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I know this will probably get a lot of thumbs downs – as it will be interpreted as a guy “not playing for the salty team”.
But this is an inquiry of pure curiosity, focused at the writer of this blog.
When you say:
————————————————–
“But you don’t care. You and your cat SheShe are Internet Marketers :: you don’t have to apply for jobs or send out resumes. Working from home :: independence :: living the dream :: fast money :: unicorns :: FTW!”
————————————————–
Or, more specifically “Internet Marketers”, who are you pointing at?
Perhaps I’m just naive and not in-tune with the focus of this author and the hardcore followers of the “anti Internet Marketing Community” (which seems to be booming with new guru-bashing blogs popping up by the second.
But, dear author, perhaps you can list maybe 5-10 characteristics of what you see as those who fall into the category of “Internet Marketers” as you are targeting, because it is indeed a very vague term, and I’ve seen you on more the author on more than one occasion make antagonistic statements toward people whom he has yet produced a single solid body of fact against (some of the people on the poll like Jeff Walker, Eben Pagan aka David DeAngelo, etc).
I make this post as far from being confrontational or offensive as I possibly can. I make this post purely as an objective observer. Yes, I do see a lot of scam-peddling people out there on the internet (as in any medium), but when you say Internet Marketers – and especially when you make statements as quoted above – it tends to come off in a sense to the anonymous reader who isn’t as ingrained in this community, that you believe anyone making a living online doing “Internet Marketing” – is a person of zero morals and deserves no respect because they don’t drive to a Brick & Mortar 9-5 traditional job.
Could you clarify more, perhaps in a short list, what you define as your targets in “Internet Marketers”? Forgive me for saying, but it seems as though this blog came to prominence from the extreme end of really bad people that did seriously bad deeds like James Arthur Ray (yes, people died, yes, he was irresponsible), and now we see you running with that in quotes like the above and names like those in the polls below where you’re trying to target “Internet Marketers” in general, though you have yet to focus much attention on those people.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@hrm,
Sorry I didn’t proof-read my post and butchered the English language in some parts.
I’d like to add though, that maybe it would’ve been quicker to say if the author could post a more definitive list of something like:
10 Characteristics of “Bad Internet Marketers”
and
10 Characteristics of “Good Internet Marketers”
Or, does the author even believe there are any good ones?
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
@hrm, See http://saltydroid.info/wtf/
“:: Things that may earn you a Shame Cannon barrage ::
>> scamming people who can’t afford to be scammed
>> attacking the weak, desperate, or hurting without adequate provocation
>> attempting to develop your own nuclear weapons program {I’m talking to you Wayne Jenkins from Kenosha, WI}
>> using sham & spam tactics to build a cult-of-personality :: then cashing in on it like a Pathetic LIFE DRAINING Parasite
>> bleep bloop”
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@hrm, you are probably going to be lynched by longer term readers here by asking that question. I will give it a stab and try and condense what I have read here to what you want to know
* anyone that uses large group awareness training (that is, people that use the human need not to stick out to force/guilt/peer pressure people into buying something)
* Anyone that is selling information (or services I guess) that are freely available
* Anyone that sells information or services at a price that seems inflated to the readers and writer of this blog
* Anyone that associates with the “inner circle”. Frank Kern , Stompernet crowd, Harlan Kilstein
* Anyone that uses human psychology to sell on the internet
* Anyone that does illegal things
As a reasonable person (and not like some of the foaming at the mouth rabid dog commenters here, you know who you are guys) the last one is the only one I would take as an absolute no-no because
* human psychology is part of all sales made, and while I don’t believe in forceful selling techniques, even offering something to someone is going to trigger a chemical reaction in a human and make them go through the same process whether they buy or not. Where along the way you draw the line is a choice based on your upbringing and current social circle.
The internet is global, individual world view is usual very very local. So thinking you are “right” is naive and ignorant to the extreme (but alas that goes along with my ideas of Americans all along. Yes I am racist and I work daily to think nicer thoughts about people that have grown up in that country)
* Guilt by association is childish. If you are their friend, you can’t be my friend! Oh come on, not EVERY ONE is black and white (some are a pleasant shade of latte coffee). Nice people go talk to killers in jail, does that make them not nice? Not everyone that hangs with,or is close friends with, the inner circle is bad.
We are all human, people do change. People do make bad decisions. Do unto others, judge not lest ye be judged…and all of that.
* Lastly , whether the readers or Salty agree, the same ugly human nature that we all see displayed by certain Internet Marketers is exactly the same things that are going on in this blog. Thinking we are somehow above what is going on out there is really stupid. We are human, we do and are affected by the same tactics shown by internet marketers every day.
We use guilt to get our friends/family to do things. We dangle promises so that people are halfway to doing what we want before we even ask them to do it. We point out a common enemy so it takes the attention away from the fact we work in a crap job (isn’t lawyer one of the least trusted professions in the USA?).
We are human.
Disclaimer: I consider myself internet marketer. I sell things I write and make on the internet. I know lots of people that do too. 99% of them are digital small businesses. Most people think that the “make money online” crowd is internet marketing. Nup, internet marketing is just another way of ensuring your product sells.
James Ray is not included in this, he is a psycho or sociopath (at the least). He is truly bad as he does not know/care how his actions affect others to the point of killing people.
/rant
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Fanny Spanker,
Thank you for that reply
It would seem to me that the general perception of “Internet Marketers” – even those at the most psychologically devious end of the spectrum – are but mere salesmen at the end of the day, and that the internet is just another medium to do the same thing that’s been done by our ancestors for thousands of years: advertise.
And, what I will say now is without question subjective and is my opinion, but I see most of these “Internet Marketers” – with their shades of LGAT techniques and uses of human psychology to allure and mesmerize – not much different than your common politician or mainstream media news pundit.
In fact, Internet Marketers seem like saints compared to those common every day people who use the same techniques.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

froylein Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
@hrm, I don’t know what things are like iwhere you live, but even a bad store clerk has never tried to intimidate me for daring to inquire about the quality of a product on offer even if I wasn’t obviously not interested in a purchase. You know, you really have a hard time convincing anybody that several of the people listed above are just regular sales people considering the footprints they’ve left in the public square without displaying the slightest bit of embarrassment over their public conduct.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
@hrm, well we musn’t fall into generalising for every group. There is good and bad in every individual, and some will say that looking at the tactics clinically and excusing them as “human behaviour” is a cop-out.
I am more for people turning their attention to themselves and examining their own motivations. Cash is the great blinder, greed will take most people eventually as they justify each small step to the sinister side (sorry left handers!).
There is no one here that is clean enough to throw the first stone, and like the guys recently written about here, they report a ripoff, this blog risks becoming what it rants about the most. An individual selling an empty message to a group of people desperately looking for an answer.
I guess that is why I have wondered all along what Salty is going to DO rather than just SAY. If the SAYING is seen as the doing then I think it’s a poor use of the potential he has as a legal professional with inside knowledge into criminal activity perpetrated by certain individuals.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +1
[Reply]

Hobbes Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 6:53 am
@Fanny Spanker,
No, in this case we should generalise for this group.
Internet Marketing isn’t just about gaudy high school level pop psychology, or about hucksterism, or about center justified web pages with a product shot at the top and TOO MUCH TEXT and a call to action at the end…
IM is about making a religion out of psychopathic jerkosity. It’s about believing that everyone else is so fucking irrelevant that it’s fine to scam them, rob them, lie to them, cheat them, steal from them, screw them over and manipulate them because the Great I Am is so great and omnipotent that who the fuck cares about other people – not when there are profits to be made, sex to be had, houses to buy, cars to own and Oprah appearances to emote on.
It’s not a set of sales techniques or a psychological pustule – it’s a moral sickness. It starts with ‘buy my ebook with this cast iron worthless guarantee and you can too’ and ends with James fucking Ray cooking people to death just because he can.
There is no good here. And the fact that this is a part of mainstream marketing, and that the IMers are amateurs compared to the Mad Avenue professionals is no excuse for either.
WINNER!! ::   +8

Hippo Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 8:23 am
@Fanny Spanker,
Some of your points are very well taken. However, I am VERY tired of the “no one is clean enough to throw the first stone” argument.
This is horseshit. If this were true, a police officer would not be able to give a ticket for a traffic violation, or arrest anyone. Judges would not be able to sentence criminal defendants. In fact, juries would not be able to convict criminal defendants.
A person does not have to be perfect to comment on the egregious behavior of another.
OF COURSE we should look to ourselves. OF COURSE we’re all tempted by greed. But when someone’s moral/ethical compass has gone haywire, it’s perfectly appropriate for imperfect bystanders to try to remedy the situation.
WINNER!! ::   +10

_cartman_ Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:36 am
@Fanny Spanker,
“We use guilt to get our friends/family to do things. We dangle promises so that people are halfway to doing what we want before we even ask them to do it.”
Ummm…that might be what YOU need to do to get “friends/family” to do things, but it’s not what *I* need to do. Nor is it what my friends/family need to do to get my help.
I am curious to here from the other “we” in here, to see who else needs to use guilt and promises to get friends/family to do things?….
“Nice people go talk to killers in jail, does that make them not nice? Not everyone that hangs with,or is close friends with, the inner circle is bad.”
Okay then…..except nobody is discussing people ‘hanging’ with frauds…. what is being disgust are people that emulate frauds.
  +6
[Reply]

DEISS AND JOHNSON'S OWN WORDS Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
@hrm, This will help, too. Here’s the last 4 slides from Jeff Johnson’s ENDORSEMENT of his “good buddy” Ryan Deiss and specifically endorsing (and agreeing with) HOW HE DOES BUSINESS.
As you’ll see, they don’t give a shit if you make money as long they make money.
Here goes (in their own words)…
SLIDE 6:
Low Ticket Upsell
30% of the people who buy self-liquidating offer (the loss leader) will purchase the low ticket UPSELL
Again, the purpose of the low ticket upsell is not to make money, but rather to TEACH THEM HOW TO BUY FROM YOU. (Deiss’ own words folks, not mine. But there’s more…)
THEY WILL LEARN TO BUY FROM YOU TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME. (again, these are Deiss’ own words off his own PDF)
Next slide is called “Big Ticket Offer”… where you upsell them again. He does the math and says you should be able to get HALF the people to take you up on your “Big Ticket Offer”.
(Again, NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of actually providing VALUE… just what Deiss can make)
Next slide…(this one’s a beauty…well, if you’re into fucking (over) sheep)
It’s called “Email Follow Up Sequence” and has 5 bullets:
If they repeatedly say no to your offers they should be put into an email follow up sequence with the main goal being to get them to say YES to your offers. (Rather than providing something GOOD, shithead? Also, in an earlier slide instead of “they should be “put” into an email sequence, he says “dumped” — that’s what he really thinks of the people on his list)
If the email sequence does not work, Webinars should be set up
Last resort is to SUBMIT YOUR BUYERS TO A CALL CENTER. (Brunson, anyone? Again, at the risk of repeating myself, Deiss wrote that… Last resort???? SUBMIT THEM to a call center? Nice.)
Continuous cycle. ONCE THEY’RE IN IT, THEY’RE ALWAYS IN IT (Deiss put that in all caps, not me. In essence, he’s EMPHASIZING that instead of providing a “continuous cycle” of value, it’s a “continuous cycle” of, in essence harrassment… no matter what, even if you have to go “last resort”.)
3rd Party offers such as affiliate programs are offered every so often (yeah, like every f-in day)
Nice, huh? No mention ANYWHERE of value to get them to buy, just multi-media harassment.
NEXT (AND LAST) Slide… (from Jeff Johnson – who is endorsing this piece of shit… because he is one, too – as you’ll see from his 6 bullets):
The slide is called “Continuity!”
If my buddy Ryan Deiss cannot work some sort of continuity program into a particular business he is considering, he WILL NOT go into that business… and chances are… neither would I!
And then in BOLD:
Continuity is the single most important part… learn how to get paid more than once for every sale you make… and your business will be much, much more successful. (Again, no mention of VALUE to the customer)
As soon as your customer purchases your SLO (initial break-even offer), they should be put into some sort of a continuity program. (really? they “should”? whether they want it or not? because YOU know better than they? Fucker.)
AND HERE’S THE BEST PART… THE FINAL 3 BULLETS:
Continuity is where ALL the money is made
Continuity = Confidence, Security, WEALTH! (again, for YOU, but what does the customer get? Nice equation, too, Jeff d-bag)
Continuous cash flow coming in on an ongoing basis (again, no mention of the customer)
Then, the DISCLAIMER:
No income guarantees or promises of any type are being made! (Except the income for Ryan “Piece of Rat Shit” Deiss and Jeff “Piece of Maggot-Shit” Johnson… cocksuckers one and all)
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 5:02 am
@DEISS AND JOHNSON’S OWN WORDS,
What you have described above is the complete ladder of manipulation that all these shysters strive to put in place, coupled with every known sales tactic from yes-sets to presumptive closing.
What is remarkable with these circle jerks, and what sets them apart from salesmen selling something of value is that their entire emphasis is on the sales process and milking their marks for evey cent possible, not whether the product has any value.
This is what brings them into the same area as those recruiting for cults–its the recruitment process that is the main product and revenue generator, not whatever system or ebook/course is being touted. And they are quite shameless in admitting that the goal is to have the marks under their power and direction in order to milk them of every cent.
All the recent ‘retirements’ of the bigger players seem suspicious to me. These guys have spent the last few years setting up continuity programmes and centring their sales processes around feeding marks into these programmes–its considerably cheaper and less trouble to snare them that way than to constantly sell them on new products and it allows the circle jerks to maintain a lower profile.
To quote another marketer who has buddied with Deiss: “All roads lead to the membership site/continuity programme”
Like all effective salesmen, Deiss is ruled by the numbers and is aware of the high fall-out rate with such continuity programmes, but as it takes a few months for most punters to realise that the content of these programmes is shit and to cancel, he only needs to surface every six months or so to find new meat for the grinder.
I have noticed that although I have unsubscribed multiple times fron the lists of these guys, every six months or so I get another barrage of emails offering teasers (freebies, webinars etc) for the continuity programmes. So again the similarity to cult recruitment, they will never let go as they are aware that they only need to hit you once at a vulnerable time.
What I see increasingly popping up now that the bigger players are lowering their profiles is their students offering their own clones of ‘Mass Control’ and Deiss’s membership scams.
  +3
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
@hrm,
The term “internet marketing/marketer” (in the case of Salty’s site) is a term used to describe people who practice TBS (Total Bull Shit).
Imagine for a moment that I told you….listen hrm….you heard of the “yellow pages”….over 150 million homes in North America (which includes Cambodia)get the yellow pages (well maybe not anymore…but it’s the theoretical CONstruct that counts) and by you advertising in the yellow pages…you can make a fortune….and I can teach you for $2K “how to make millions using yellow pages”.
Your reaction…listen _cartman_…blow it out your ass…first… not everyone gets the same yellow pages (they are location specific), and only a fraction of people will actually see my ad, and even if they do…it doesn’t necessarily translate to a sale…
Okay..okay…listen hrm…there is a technology called television and they offer something called “paid programming” spots…millions of people watch that…and if you buy a spot (and sell your product) you will make millions….and I can teach you for $2K “how to make millions using paid programming advertising”
Your reaction…listen _cartman_….blow it out your ass…I didn’t just fall off a turnip truck…I know that if “millions” watched paid programming time slots…they wouldn’t be “paid programming” time slots…they’d be prime time television spots….the reason they sell those paid programming spots (to junk vendors), is the amount of traffic is so sparse it doesn’t raise enough advertising revenues to pay royalties from programming that would otherwise be offered, and it would cost them more then what could be brought in in advertising revenue…
First hrm…there is no need to be so rude…I only want to lead you to suckcess…butt…if you aren’t willing to believe my BS….well…then you are destined to fail….sorry…butt…that’s the truth… ;)
Well “internet marketing/marketers” make one believe by butchering the reality out of certain metrics (mostly irrelevant metrics…mixed in with a whole lot of BS and “artful” interpretations) make one believe they can make tons of money….same BS that has been going on for decades…just a whole new media….it’s all about creating a successful extrapolation of a theoretical CONstruct….
For instance, how many people “follow” Maria Andros on twitter?….well by way of numbers some 52K accounts (…the keyword being…accounts)…those that interact with her (in any way, shape or form…following her like a celery)….well… ~8 on average (she dropped most of her 30 odd followers, once she refused to answer Lisa’s inquiries regarding past BS claims)….does her self-professed “celebrity” like following amount to anything…not so much…butt…in her “adverteasing” she sells the “illusion” that the numbers she presents as her “suckcess” (her followers..her video “views”..her site “ranking”, etc) actually amounts to a “celebrity like following”….and the numbers she “parades” (which are mostly gamed) supposedly proves that she has some sort of “advertising” prowess (my ass has more advertising “prowess”..people please…stop looking at my ass…cept you tiga…you…you…bunny boiling stocker you ;)…hit up a comment…and we’ll mock some small brained Ramens…roar)….most of those 52K accounts don’t even know she’s alive…let alone give a flying fuck what she says or does….and the ones that may believe her….might order her product…which…in the end….won’t amount to a hill of beans….just look at her so called “students” and their suckcess…or more correctly…lack thereof…
Andros is butt one example of “internet marketing/marketers” being discussed here…”internet marketers” that don’t make money the way they claim to make money..but selling the idea that people can make money utilizing a theoretical construct they will teach and claim to make money from…
Anyways…I have to go….I’m bringing in 50K a month selling an E-book on how to make 50K a month selling fruit weaponry…I just found out we will be listed on the OTCBB pink sheets…buy the stock….we are about to announce a big fruity contract with the USDA (secret insider info ;) for all my fan)….they want people to get more servings of fruits….
PS – My celebrity numerologists (that’s right…more then one…suck on my suckcess) wants me to use more “smileys” in my post…apparently my humor doesn’t always come through….go figure…
WINNER!! ::   +30
[Reply]

Ross Jeffries Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
@hrm,
Here are a few:
1. Lying about your own results to pump up your product or service. Claiming, for example, your own product launch strategies brought in say, 2 million bucks, when the actual figure is only half or a tenth of that.
2. Making up fake testimonials.
3. Selling products that are fraudulent on their face: fake health cures, fake diet pills, etc. See: Perry Belcher.
4. Lying about one’s credentials/educational backround/licenses/degrees
5. Past history of prosecutions/convictions for wire fraud/mail fraud etc etc that are concealed or covered over.
6. Hidden continuity-hiding or disguising that you are selling a product that requires on going monthly billing.
7. Forced continuity-requiring people take your continuity in order to get the advertised disccount.
8. Refusal to give refunds.
9. Refusal/failure to stop billing when the customer requests an end to continuity billing.
10. Running phone boiler rooms that use high pressure sales tactics to manipulate people into purchasing cripplingly expensive coaching, and/or other add on products/services.
11. Failing to deliver orders/products.
12. Blatantly ignoring customer complaints.
13. Undisclosed affiliate/paid endorsement of another “syndicate member’s” products or services.
14. Lying or dramatically exaggerating the effectiveness of product/service/program.
15. Lying about what constitute “typical results” of one’s program.
Is that specific enough for you?
I personally would add being a “schlock meister”-someone who just repackages what is in the public domain or already done by others’, claims it as one’s own original work, and then resells it. That to me is just the lowest.
RJ
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]

PJ Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
@Ross Jeffries,
Ross-man:
7. Forced continuity-requiring people take your continuity in order to get the advertised discount.
This happens all the time, legally in the cell phone industry… and to a lesser extent, the car lease industry. Nothing wrong with it, IMHO as long as it’s properly disclosed and you can cancel with relative ease.
(I will agree that the schlockmeisters can pervert this something awful)
  +2
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 2:12 pm
@Ross Jeffries,
Thanks for being more precise than most are willing, Mr. Jeffries.
Though, aren’t there two sides to this coin in terms of “packaging info that is already public domain”? Isn’t this more of a philosophical question of point of view?
One of your former students that you’ve referred to as “brother Eben”, phrases it in his business that just about all of the information you will find in any info product is available freely on the internet.
And I agree with that. If you have the time and are willing to dig, you can piece together all of the pieces of the puzzle for whatever problem it is you are trying to solve by skimming through multiple freely available articles in a google search, videos on youtube, etc… boy, I could go on and on, the sources of free information on the internet for just about anything are endless.
But, as “brother Eben” has said – and I’m sure he even got this philosophy from some other Info Marketer before him – that what people are paying for when it comes to information isn’t necessarily something new or something not in the public domain for free, but what they’re paying for is the convenience.
The convenience that they won’t have to do all that digging, and hope to find something that will work, and hope to find something that is credible, from an actual authority and not something some dipshit wrote in his e-lance deal to write 500 articles for 2 cents.
Yes, I do agree that some of these more celebrity-level info guys do tend to take it too far sometime, and exploit these mechanics just to get a sale or get you in their funnel.
The fake “Social Proof” as Cialdini calls it in his influence bible. Testimonials and reviews, this is being seen everywhere now. Even when you go to amazon and look at a product with a boatload of 5-stars, you have to question the validity. A good example of this is the Tim Ferriss 4-hour-work-week book, which many believe all of those reviews were – ironically and hilariously wrong – an “outsourced job”.
I will end in thanking all of you for your replies, and those of you that quickly helped my 5 thumbs-up rating turn to -259295 loser. As they say, if you want nobody to hate you, don’t say anything… But nobody will like you either. I knew what I was getting into :)
And I will just agree to disagree with the core constituency of this blog whom seem to have this absolutist view that any and all info products are a bullshit rip-off because it is something that is either free or has already been done before.
Everything has been done before.
  +4
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 2:20 pm
@Ross Jeffries,
And, Mr. Jeffries, to add to what I just talked about particularly in regards to your offerings:
I could more or less piece together what you offer in your “Speed Seduction” system packages, by spending countless hours studying the plethora of freely available articles, forums, videos, audios, etc…, available on the internet on NLP, hypnosis, their uses in human interaction, etc.
In which case I would eventually after perhaps quite a few hours, wander into more specific searches on free info in regards to NLP in dating, hypnosis in seduction, etc…
One could say, that after a few hundred hours of searching and reading free information on these subjects, I would be just as well off as if I had purchased one of your products.
To which you would undoubtedly make the argument along the lines of “Yes, but instead of having spent hundreds of hours to come to the same conclusion, you could have spent but 5-10 with my (text/audio/video-based product), for I have compiled all of the information tailored to your desired result”.
Is what I’m saying incorrect?
  +3
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 1:56 pm

terry hall @bizsayer said:
WTF! Amy & I weren’t invited to bid the Frederickson’s bon voy-byebye from California. Too bad, I could have used an estrogen infusion.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
@terry hall @bizsayer,
And you’re even the number 1 listing for googling Josh F! (A “crimesider” story is numer 2.) Maybe the notoriety has gone to his head and he’s forgotten his old friends.
@Manic Meg: don’t forget that there’s a grave up there in Minnesota you should be visiting. Don’t forget to send Michele and Tina a few photos.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
@Yakaru, There are actually 2 graves she should be visiting in Minnesota. Colleen Conaway and Liz Neuman.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

john graham Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 8:10 pm
@Bryan Neuman, Thanks bryan, from our whole family to yours, we are praying for you…if there is any way we can help, let us know…
  +5
[Reply]

terry hall @bizsayer Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
@Yakaru, Ha – ya gotta love the ability wordpress provides when it comes to google page placement, especially since that’s how I make my living. ;-)
  +4
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 2:19 pm

Bryan Neuman said:
Thanks SD, they definitely deserve everything they’ve got coming.
To Megan and Josh, if you do move back to Minnesota, look me up. We’ll do lunch. I have a few things to say to you two. I’m free on Mother’s Day… does that work for you two?
WINNER!! ::   +24
[Reply]

terry hall @bizsayer Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
@Bryan Neuman, You’re being free on Mother’s Day certainly puts the outrage Amy & I feel into perspective. My eyes tear up every time I think of your loss.
FYI – We heard today that there’s a strong feeling in the Arizona Legal Community that JAR will never be convicted. We certainly want that to be proven wrong.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
@terry hall @bizsayer, I’m confident he’ll get at least a few years, but all we can do is hope and pray for justice.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Jamo Reply:
May 5th, 2010 at 2:22 am
@terry hall @bizsayer, I hadn’t heard that. It seems like a very strong case to me. What’s the reasoning behind that?
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:16 am
@Bryan Neuman ::
The problem I see with your plan is that it’s so hard to get a good table for lunch on Mother’s Day … and we know that Megan always insists on sitting by the door.
Maybe instead of meeting-up she could just send you a Hallmark card from Walgreens and sign it:
To your continued success,
MF
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 8:28 am
@Bryan Neuman,
Oh, Bryan, bless your heart, when you said you were free on Mother’s Day, I just lost it.
I thought that my lengthy exposure to this case had hardened me, but I am just an old softie.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@Hippo,
Same here.
  +4
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:43 am
@Yakaru, @Hippo – Sorry, don’t worry. I’ll be with family the entire day.
  +5
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 12:18 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
I am glad to hear that. You are lucky to have some family support, and you don’t have to go through your terrible loss alone.
  +5
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
I think of your loss, and I think of Ms Fredrickson hiding from the cops rather identifying the victims. Or Josh Fredrickson claiming he “banged his head”, so he couldn’t help save any of the victims. (Yup, those sticks holding up the sweat lodge looked real heavy.)
Death Ray is clearly mad as a hatter, but Meg and Josh and the rest of the thumb ring brigade aren’t psychopaths. That’s what really disturbs me about them. They know perfectly well what they’ve done. Their cover up of Colleen’s death made all this possible. And I note that they also knew they needed to hide it not just from participants and police, but also from co-workers like Amy Hall and Melinda Martin.
As much as I want death Ray to be locked up, the legal system isn’t really equipped to deal with this kind of ruthless, idiotic duplicity. Public exposure is the only other option.
For anyone interested telling the SD police to reopen Colleen’s case, you can call the homicide dept:
+619 531 2293.
They need to be reminded that there will be a lot of media coverage of Death Ray’s trial, and people will be asking why the SD police didn’t recognise the suspicious circumstances.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

john graham Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 8:14 pm
@Bryan Neuman, Hi bryan, you could come spend mothers day with my mother-in-law, marian conaway…..I know it would help her….we will be thinking of you….god bless john
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:41 am
@john graham, Hi John, thank you very much for the offer, but I’m actually getting together with both my Grandma’s that day. It’s been extra hard on Liz’s Mother. You guys are definitely in my thoughts and prayers as well. I sent in a request to reopen Colleen’s case. Let me know if there’s anything else I can do to help. Hopefully we’ll get some answers and justice at the trial this fall, take care.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 4:36 pm

justiceaintfair said:
Some people live the life of a lie but in the end it gets them. JRI and his cronies will never leave this earth with a clean slate.
  +6
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 4:27 pm
@justiceaintfair, But we don’t stop seeking justice in this world.That way they get it twice,at least.
  +2
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 5:57 pm

sour mash n tart picklez said:
Oh I surely like this post. These pictures are up close, personal and intimate, which must seem to me that it’s almost like the droid is never far behind Josh or Megan. It is almost like this is a very weird twilight zone where all those other people’s faces at the party all turn into the droid following your every move, when you’re sitting in traffic picking your nose, when you’re alone wondering if you can keep this lie up forever, and when you’re partying it up, joking about dead people.
I’ve googled Megan’s name. Not a pretty sight. What kind of jobs is Megan going to apply for? I mean who doesn’t google these days? I suppose if she became a go-go dancer or a porn actress it would not affect her job prospects. But wait, did she say she wanted to be an Internet Marketer with her cat?
And now through saltydroid’s big mouth EVERYONE know’s your cat’s name, Megan Frederickson.
Meigan Frederickson James Ray
Meghan Frederickson James Arthur Ray
What else will this big mouthed saltdyroid tell us, Megan Frederickson?
Don’t think that’s a good idea anymore. Internet marketer has become a curse word and an insult. like _cartman_ lol_)
I suppose you and Josh could always end up working at Burger King or McDonald’s. I’ll have fries with that, on second thought cancel my order.
  +6
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 7:02 pm

Karmonic Wealth said:
I wonder if they’ll be looking to get those old jobs back at Best Buy.
  +4
[Reply]

Liar Crusher Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
@Karmonic Wealth
LOL…poor Best Buy!!
  +5
[Reply]

Ultra Valerian Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 6:24 am
@Karmonic Wealth,
Josh’s old job selling warranties to old ladies buying blenders might be available, but I’d say the odds of there being a job for Megan at Best Buy Corporate are not too great. In late 2008, BBY offered a buyout to employees to leave voluntarily (pretty nice severance package), then in early 2009 after not enough people went for it, they laid off 500 people (12.5% of the staff at headquarter). I don’t know, but I doubt they are back up to their previous staffing levels at corporate.
  0
[Reply]

sour mash n tart picklez Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:59 am
@Ultra Valerian, so they were nobody special before. Selling warranties to old ladies with blenders? Well, at least the idea of that was a harmless and honest living made before James Ray.
Incidentally, I recall seeing a pre-JamesRay photo online somewhere of Josh and Megan. They looked very different than they do now. Megan did not have that manic stare and those manic grimaced smiles like she does now. She actually had a really sweet and normal facial expression.
Question: Is Josh a closet gay? He reminds me of Irwin Frank Kern’s cousin a little in this picture.
  0
[Reply]

Ultra Valerian Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 1:40 pm
@sour mash n tart picklez,
I don’t know them personally. For a bit of background on how the Freds got hooked up w/James Ray and what they were up to before JRI, see Salty’s “4 Funerals and a Wedding” entry. There’s a couple of old pix of Megan there or somewhere else on this blog from when they were selling Herbalife on the side of those fab Best Buy jobs.
  -1
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 7:03 pm

Liar Crusher said:
@hrm @Fanny Spanker
Wow! Really?!
Why are you two even here at the SD blog? Clearly, you don’t get it.
If you are calling me a “rabid dog commenter,” bring it on. I’d rather be known for standing Firmly for what is right than be a pussy over it.
@Fanny Spanker
If you think that what you are witnessing in this blog-room of SD’s is “ugly human nature,” you, Sir, are a total moron.
That neither of you can tell the knife from the wound tanks my faith in humanity a chunk.
Go spank your own fanny for being so truly clueless…and you might as well bail now, because you will clearly Never “get it.”
DO NOT EVER try to speak for the people on this blog. They have their own voices and may disagree with your inbred assessment of them as:
“we do and are affected by the same tactics shown by internet marketers every day”
YOU SPEAK ONLY FOR YOURSELF ON GARBAGE LIKE THAT.
That you can’t tell a good person from a bad one doesn’t surprise me. You are clearly for the lukewarm middle.
I can’t believe good people go into battle every day in defense of this country to cover the asses of people like you…since you think we are all the same as internet marketers. Wow! I bet your parents are (NOT) proud.
I am amazed that Anyone still doesn’t get the whole Internet Marketer thing!
Follow the bouncing red dot, you two…if you can manage…
What is the difference between a good internet marketer and a bad one…or a good person and a bad one…aren’t we all marketers….aren’t we all salesman?
1). You two are morality morons.
2). If anyone has to answer that question, the person they are talking to clearly “doesn’t get it” and probably never will.
3). A good person or marketer offers something of VALUE that is the exchange for monies (or something) given.
4). A bad person gives NOTHING of VALUE and takes the persons money anyway.
The difference, you corndogs, is DECEPTION.
Lemma spell it out, since you two are still in kinnergarden, if I told you I was going to sell you a diamond bracelet for your wife’s birthday, you would give me the money and expect what? {No…no…I’ll wait…I know this is straining your gray matter………..} Hopefully you got the answer the rest of us “IM’ers on SD’s blog” deduced: That’s right, folks…diamonds.
Now, if I told you I was going to sell you a diamond bracelet for your wife’s birthday, I took your $40,000 and gave you cubic zirconias instead, would that be a little different than the above scenario? I know you two are slow, the answer is Yes.
The difference: FRAUD. DECEPTION. MALINTENT. GREED WITHOUT RECIPROCITY.
Yes, we all need to know how to communicate effectively. Which idiot of you two thinks all salesmen are deceivers? They aren’t. If I sold you diamonds as I promised, am I a deceiver? Am I a good or bad IM’er? Is it getting any clearer? Doubtful.
The advertising spectrum has the potential to be Littered with impure intent…they prey on your self-esteem, appeal to your ego, try to coerce you and ply you in myriad ways…yes…all of it…yes. But, humans have something they can’t remove…Free Will. The power to say No to what isn’t right for us. That is harder to do when someone is DECEIVING you about something, isn’t it, you two boneheads?
Summary:
@Fanny Spanker
Hope for a brain AND a spine AND a clue in your next lifetime.
NEVER attempt to speak for the people at SD’s blog, nor SD himself. You are a douche for even trying to do something that dumb. Clearly, you can’t tell good people from bad ones, so feel free to keep company elsewhere.
You may assume that SD is “not living up to his potential as a legal professional” {something else you likely know nothing about}, but since you don’t know what SD is doing, why don’t you shut up? How the fuck do you know what he is or isn’t living up to? Why don’t you “direct your reflections back to yourself,” and try to live up to the potential of someone with a fraction of a brain stem or some human decency.
You don’t know that SD is not DOING anything, dumbass. You have ZERO idea what he is DOING, so stop telling him to DO something. WTF should he do to please you, dumbass. Really?! Oops. I heard the kinnergarden bell ring…time for you two to go back inside and give us adults a break from having to do all your thinking for you.
Try to follow this tiny thought, if you can:
A BLOG is a place where you SAY something…you can’t DO something on a blog. That is for the REAL world of the physical. Since you don’t know what anyone in the world is DOING or NOT doing, why don’t you stop hurling accusations out your ass?
If you are calling SD a pussy for SAYING things on his BLOG – as we previously defined as a place for SAYING THINGS – I am doubled over in laughter. Go ahead and misunderestimate SD…I’m sure the gurus did…if it comes down to someone I’d have to be in a foxhole with, I’d pick SD…unlike you limp-wristed douchey two…upon whom the whole world would be lost, much less the ethical strata…
What SD does with any and all of it is something I lose no sleep over! He has his composition screwed on straight, unlike you two.
You don’t have the balls to really understand what a good human is comprised of…I know this because if you did, you would never say such things and then try to accuse all of us as being just like you!! WTF?!!
@hrm No, not all IM’ers are bad, so put away your bag of “Hi. I’m an IM’er” guilt. They are only bad if there is DECEPTION between what is PROMISED to someone and what is DELIVERED to someone. HELLO!!!! VERY simple to understand, that is why most of the SD’ers (even us rabid dogs…I’ll take that as a compliment because, well, I just fucking feel like it) probably “get it.”
You’re a real Prize (again, NOT).
Not everyone guilts their friends and family, deceives others or dangles anything, or works at a crap job. That’s your reality! Stop projecting!
SOME people don’t like to see the innocent preyed upon…especially rabid dogs…and I’ll tell you something else, if a bear ever had its mouth wrapped around your 5-year old daughters throat…you’d be pissing your fucking pants praying for a rabid dog… and, yes, we’d step up…but it is dumbasses like you that don’t even grasp the value of such things (or people)…lives that are lost defending this country for you are just wasted for nothing…you don’t deserve it, because instead of becoming something great (fuck, in your case, even decent), you just want to be a pissy moron…go try to germinate some brain seeds…
Gosh, I hope that gave you two dingdongs some clarity…
If you don’t like rabid dogs, get out of the pack…I’m not apologizing to ANYONE for having a pair. At least I have a pair for the RIGHT SIDE.
@SD:
As for the Fredericksons stepping up to the plate and telling the truth…remember that they dragged Clinton into the “big courts” where he promptly demanded that they “define It.” A President whose motto was “Deny, deny, deny” didn’t set a good example for all the other Deniers out there! They know that even kids will lie to your face about something you saw them do…so don’t hold your breath on Josh and Megan…but I know you weren’t anyway!
Standing for Truth, Justice, and the Good Version/People of the American Way,
LC
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

advancedNoob Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
@Liar Crusher,
Amazing hypocrisy there! You’re ‘internet-yelling’ at two people for disagreeing with your opinion while at the same preaching at them to allow others to express their opinions (which they are!).
Get this through your teeny tiny creepy mind:
Internet marketer is someone who uses the internet to market – that includes your local dentist and Walmart.
The people Salty is targeting are not just internet marketers, they are internet marketers who use the internet to market their fraud services and non-knowledge. Get it? Looking at your post, probably not, but one can still hope.
The point is that we need to make a distinction b/w internet marketers and people who sell ONLY ‘make money’ products online that have no true value through the internet.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +6
[Reply]

Liar Crusher Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@advancedNoob
You’re about as “advanced” as a bag full of doorknobs.
Look, pinhead, I didn’t slam them for not agreeing with my opinion. I hadn’t even STATED an opinion previously, so you wanna go figure out what the fuck you are talking about? No? Me either.
Speak your opinion all you fucking want. That is perfect for the rest of us, so we know where you stand…and to avoid you like the plaque.
I KNOW what an IM’er is, dumbass. I think I can go out on a limb and say that SD’s blog doesn’t spend the meat of its time discussing the Nice Guys in IM…like your dentist.
You aren’t advanced at all…
You’re a fucking idiot who just repeated what I said in my post. Dumb Turd.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

advancedNoob Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:30 am
@Liar Crusher,
See, it’s idiocy like this that makes it so hard to respond to you in a civil manner. For whatever reason you’re under the impression that calling people names and swearing makes you popular (or maybe you are delusional enough to think it even makes you, right?).
The problem is you’re not actually dealing with the question asked!
Question asked : Salty – you say’ internet marketers buy are not explaining what you mean by it?? Are they all bad?
Answer :
A) Read some posts here and you’ll see exactly whom SD is referencing to.
B) SD is not referring to ‘internet marketers’ in general, but rather the specific kind who use overinflated pricing, deception and lies to steal money from others.
Simple enough, eh?
If you think your failure to use harsh language in a reasonable and entertaining manner endears you to SD, I would venture to think you’re wrong. Just because SD seems to have enough wits about him to see through your unnecessary rants.
All I’m getting at is that you could have answered the question in a civil manner without starting a useless ‘flame war’.
To all who’re wondering whom salty is referring to – just click on the D-Bags tag and enjoy.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +3
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:52 am
@advancedNoob,
Well said.
This ranting foul-mouth is getting tiresome. If he was also entertaining at the same time or had something of value to say it might be worth reading, but he is just trolling for victims to abuse.
Lee Kuan, is that you in yet another of your many personalities?
  +4
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 7:22 pm

Fanny Spanker said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Just to keep it real
I am a woman
I am not American (should be apparent by my British spelling).
Value is determined by the individual doing the purchasing purchasing, if they feel it is worth paying for they will. Just like you pay for things that have a price tag of 100x what it costs to make because someone convinced you it was a good deal.
“Wondering” is not the same as stating a fact.
Capitalisation of words and excessive exclamation marks do not an argument make.
Taking money for something that is not delivered is fraud and is illegal in all countries I know. As I stated illegal activities are a big no-no.
Is the bear a communist metaphor? you lost me there…
Josh and Megan are not internet marketers and should not be lumped into the same category …Hrm asked about internet marketers, and what I was answering (off topic certainly was, but answered none the less).
I mean you no harm LC. Do hope you can say the same for people that hold a differing view to your own.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Oh dear the comment nesting has gone weird again…the above was a reply to Liar Crusher
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Liar Crusher Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
@Fanny Spanker
Thanks for proving my points…clueless.
VALUE is not in the eye of the beholder…capitalization is for EMPHASIS (look it up)…if it is, I hope you get a lot of cubic zirconia jewelry in your life.
Like I said, you don’t “get it”…and other people’s opinions can flow as freely as wine…I know who I am standing for and against…
Do yourself a favor. Don’t advise me. I keep much more intelligent counsel than someone with a vacant stare.
Go back to your corner and sing Kumbayah.
(Communist metaphor? Pull your brain out of the microwave…once again, proving my points about you “not getting it”.)
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 2:03 am
@Liar Crusher,
What I get from you is that you are displaying the mental age and emotional maturity of a very confused 15 year old boy.
Personal abuse and cheap emotive appeals to supposedly heroic warriors (you are clearly not one of those, anyone who has seen real bloodshed in combat tends to be a bit more circumspect regarding emotive appeals) are signs of someone clearly not getting very much except over-exposure to action movies and shoot-em-up video games.
  +6
[Reply]

Liar Crusher Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Fanny Spanker
“Value is determined by the individual doing the purchasing”?
FUCK, you are one dumb lump, aren’tcha? I am amazed that anybody would be stupid enough to say something that consummately inbred. (British thing?)
REREAD the bracelets hypothetical from my post, tithead!!
(A hypothetical is a story that isn’t real but posited for the sake of exchanging and aiding in the understanding of concepts…at least it was unitl you came along.)
Why don’t you and (Not at all) advancedNoob make a couples appointment to get sterilized tomorrow.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:06 am
@Liar Crusher, as much as I love fighting on the internet, I will leave you to it.
I only advise small businesses on their business practices and why value is not the price you set on an item, but what people will pay. There is no inherent value in any item, diamonds included (to use your cubic zirconia example), only what the market will pay. Which is why the diamond market is heavily influenced by De Beers and others holding diamonds back to create a false sense of scarcity.
If Russia or De Beers released their stock diamonds onto the market, the false scarcity would be gone and people would not be willing to pay as much because what they are getting is not really as special as they think it is.
I won’t be able to change your mind, and it shames me that I have continued to respond to your comments, which has been sport (I know full well the “type” that I like poking with sticks).
Enjoy your life and be nice to people.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +3
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 2:10 am
@Liar Crusher,
This from another ‘inbred Brit’: every word you write displays your idiocy.
  +2
[Reply]

you had me at "fanny spanker" Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
@Fanny Spanker, but you lost me at purchasing purchasing
  +1
[Reply]
# 29 April 2010 at 8:14 pm

Enoch_Root said:
the Droid is after a particular form of creature – Internet Marketing has its share of scam artists.
in the days of yore, it was the mystical body of SEO… it took a wizard, a mathematical genius to make sense of data, I tell you… well, that was back in the days before Google Analytics…
then it was blogs! blogs I tell you! they were set to revolutionize business and everyone clamored for one… value be damned! Business model be ignored!
then – oh wait this is still happening – it’s the mad world of Social Media! Must… have… social media component.
now, there is no question that at some level people ask for silly things without understanding what they are asking for or even knowing what it is they might actually reasonably expect in terms of ROI for their cash. but here is the difference between an honest man and a dishonest one.
the honest man explains to the client that to spend their money in this way makes no sense. the dishonest man takes their money… knowing full well the fool’s ends will not be achieved.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Liar Crusher Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
@Enoch_Root
May I be the first to congratulate you on getting the point!
>the honest man explains to the client that to spend their money
>in this way makes no sense. the dishonest man takes their money…
>knowing full well the fool’s ends will not be achieved.
LC
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1
[Reply]

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 4:27 am
@Liar Crusher, there is a saying… and no it can’t be attributed to Buddha. It goes like this:
even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
  +3
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 12:48 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Enoch_Root, I agree to a point. Should all gyms be closed down because they know that only a small percentage will actually use their services as intended and get the results that are possible?
Is the purchaser’s intent the responsibility of the seller? Where the result depends on the purchaser actually doing something then I say caveat emptor.
Where the promise of magical results are complete rubbish from the beginning then they deserve to be all over Salty’s hit list.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 4:18 am
@Fanny Spanker, well, let me put it to you this way: greed is ugly and evil. and resisting the temptation to make a quick and dishonest buck is a sign of maturity.
for what it is worth, here is a little background. in the mid-fifties, my grandfather was given insider info from a friend who wanted to repay him for previous assistance. the tip? invest in X Beer company… which was slated to make some maneuver or another not generally known to the trading public but sure to cause the stock to soar (which is actually what did happen). My grandfather thanked the man sincerely… for the man’s intentions toward my grandfather were generous. But he told that man he could not 1) act on the information because he came upon it in an … erm … not so transparent manner, and 2) he could not make money on another man’s weakness (alcohol).
my other grandfather, who SD will be happy to know was some sort of accomplished attorney and legal mind (both of my grandfathers having been born circa 1892) was on the board of several banks and railroad companies was tipped off that he should remove his money from the banks (immediately prior to the black friday) – instead he sat and read the newspaper. They lost everything. But he refused to capitalize on the insider knowledge.
me: in a former life was “encouraged” to fire someone because he happened to be gay. the point was not to get rid of the gay guy, per se. No the point was to get something on me. To compromise me. Why, you ask? well, because I was onto corporate corruption happenings at a very disturbing level. I guess I could have “played nice” – but had I done so, i would have 1) sold my soul, 2) ended up in the slammer, as did a good many of the scumbags who capitulated and went along with the PTB…
My point: it is very possible to do the right thing. the ethical thing. is it always easy? no. especially when you see ill-intentioned asshats making tons of money and youre still plodding along trying not to exploit anyone. But it gets easier and easier with practice. And, well, you sleep good at night knowing you haven’t feed your family on another man’s weakness.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 4:42 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Enoch_Root, yes people do make ethical decisions and from what you have written it would seem you have been brought up with the notion that what your grandfather did was the “right” thing.
In some parts of Western society ethics such as your grandfather’s are noble. In other’s they are seen as stupidity. This goes back to the who is “right” discussion and that’s where I step back and say no-one is, there is no “right”. It all depends on where you are, how you were brought up and what time it is…
LOSER!! ::   -12
[Reply]

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 4:48 am
@Fanny Spanker, rubbish. relative morality is nothing but a cop-out for those who are intellectually lazy.
sorry, but your rationale reminds me of a 19yr old me in college. and when I look back, I am embarrassed at how “enlightened” and “tolerant” I thought I was.
it takes work to form a mature opinion about right and wrong. but, moral relativism is a wasteland of grey. and so simple-minded as to be unworthy of even assailing.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 4:51 am
@Fanny Spanker, I would rather die being accused of “stupidity” and broke than rich and “wise”
  +6
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 5:48 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Enoch_Root, (see my mention of cop out above in original statement).
I was reading a study the other day that looked at the lying habits of the average person (American from memory). Came to almost 6 lies an hour – this included people that believed themselves to be morally “good” people. God fearing and all of that. Because it is kinder to not tell the truth, then to tell.
I do wonder if that lying included lying to oneself that there is a right and a wrong. Like inherent value, there is no inherent good or bad, there just is.
While I have enjoyed this philosophical discussion it would seem that you too have decided that being personal is a mature way to discuss an opinion. I have appreciated the opportunity to get a better understanding of your ethical stance.
I wish you a good day, and hope you are also nice to people who do not have your world view.
LOSER!! ::   -13

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 6:01 am
@fanny spanker,
self-deluded then. hmmmm. ok, if you say so.
where have I made a personal attack? If I have, I do not see it.
I do wonder if one’s beliefs (if they can be said to be beliefs or whether the absence of any beliefs on beliefs, as it may be) cannot survive the scrutiny of light and reason if they are worthy of being held so tightly.
if nothing else, you can count yourself among those who are very hip… as hip is absolutely NOT relative…
a good day to you as well. may the Sun shine through the grey goggles.
  +2
# 29 April 2010 at 9:00 pm

SD (author) said:
@hrm :: stop repeating that same question … mentioning those same names … taking that same equivocating tone. i don’t care for it.
@FannySpanker :: i’m sorry that my fake robot blog hasn’t lived up to your expectations for my legal career.
@LiarCrusher :: Chillax man.
____
A proper lady never speaks in riddles :: where the swans carved the morning through … beneath the moonlit moon.
I hope that clears everything up for everyone.
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:10 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, I have no expectations of your career SD lol. Certainly did though for something to come out the blog apart from the rabid ranters (but it’s hard to shake them I guess).
:) Have a great day!
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]

spoonfaceboy Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 9:45 am
@Fanny Spanker, “rabid ranters” – alliteration! I wanna play.
Random rambling rabid ranters ranting radically. Rampaging. Ransacking. Razing. Ravenously raking rancid rapscallion rat rascals. Righteously wrangling wrong-doers.
And, you’re incorrect Fanny.
This blog, full of expletives and exquisite excogitation, excellently exceeds expectations exponentially.
So suck it.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 2:51 pm
@SD,
If you wish to ban me because I try to stimulate debate based on logical observations of the dynamics on topic (“Internet Marketers), and because I simply don’t tow the salty line of absolutism, then please, waste no further time, and do ban me.
I have no desire to be participate in a community headed by a person – who just as equally as the bad internet marketers – is trying to create a cult of personality where everyone agrees with him and tries to squelch debate from differing viewpoints.
For what? For Alexa ranking? For more #1 in results for relevant terms bragging rights?
Are you seeking fame and a cheer leading squad that approves of your every word and questions nothing?
Or are you seeking intellectual debate from those who remain objective and skeptical of all sides and points of view?
You do not see me in any of my posts ranting or calling names to the likes of the infamous VOR. As much as your core followers wish to thumbs down me, you cannot deny I make logical and observational arguments.
I am not 100% right, nor will I claim to be.
But the day I am told to stop questioning an authors perspective on his own blog, is the day I could care less to further participate in what is quite obviously becoming his intended one-sided community with an ulterior motive for something other than true intellectual discussion and debate on the authors topic.
You don’t want to truly better the situation and facilitate discussion and understanding on what are the rights and wrongs. You want a flock of followers that are on your side of the fence that do not question your point of view.
Do ban me sir, and I wish you all the unabated fame and following you desire.
Those of you who wish to further contact me on any of my previous posts may do so at sepelion@gmail.com
hrm
  0
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 11:39 pm
@hrm, I have to say, it does sound like you are ‘trying to work something out’ here on this blog. It’s as if you are continually walking around someone sitting on a pedestal, occasionally leaning in, and tossing out (as Salty notes) the same conceptual ‘ponderance,’ just cloaked differently, and each time looking for some slightly different nuanced response for your own purposes.
I’m not trying to be insulting, just honest. Also keep in mind this is more of a consumer protectionism blog, not an internet marketer training or redemption forum.
  +2
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 10:39 pm
@hrm,
Actually, it’s “I COULDN’T care less.” “I could care less” doesn’t make any sense.
I haven’t responded to your posts, nor have I voted on them, because I don’t understand them.
And I don’t see where Mr. Salty threatened to ban you. Maybe this entire thing has gone over my head.
  -1
[Reply]
# 30 April 2010 at 12:50 am

Rafael Marquez said:
Those are some kickass pictures.
  +6
[Reply]

you had me at "fanny spanker" Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Rafael Marquez, Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]
# 30 April 2010 at 8:19 am

sour mash n tart picklez said:
@Fanny Spanker, you say there is no right or wrong , or good or bad, that it all just is.
Yea it’s easy to say that, but let that be YOUR mother, daughter, or loved one who was killed by the likes of James Arthur Ray.
Would you still be so quick to use your relative morality if you were to be the victim of a heinous crime?
I think not. Hurting other people is fucking WRONG. According to who? According to the VICTIMS and those who are experiencing the pain inflicted upon them and that should always be the deciding factor in changing behavior.
  +4
[Reply]

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 9:34 am
@sour mash n tart picklez, judgementalist!!!!! ELEvENty!!!!!! no dinner for you!
  +5
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@sour mash n tart picklez, Oh dear, you missed the bit where I said that JAR was a psycho/sociopath and deserves all he gets, or the bit that illegal acts are a no-no, or the bit about the discussion being off topic but about internet marketers
or that depending on where you are and when you are determines society’s morals.
Once it was an honour for your child son to be sodomised by an elder male. If you were around back then you would have thought so too…I am banking on that you don’t think that now…
I am not here to change your minds, maybe my words might pry open a tiny chink though.
LOSER!! ::   -15
[Reply]

Which guru was in North Carolina? Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
@Fanny Spanker, ha ha you said “Chink”
  -3
[Reply]

sour mash n tart picklez Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 12:26 pm
@Fanny Spanker, your reasoning and logic seems to be nonexistent, although, I am aware that to yourself and to others your reasoning seems perfectly normal , especially when you tell me that you think I would have been honored to have my son sodomized at some point in the past.
Do you really think that we would all be happy about having our children molested?
Are you 100% sure of this?
You speak with such conviction, perhaps it’s YOU who would feel that way with certainty, because in the real world you cannot with certainty say how anyone else would think and react to any circumstance regardless of tradition, culture or time period.
So because people in the past were so sick and mentally deranged to bring their first born sons to be sodomized, you think it’s ok to do what? To pretend that there is no right or wrong?
So Fanny Spanker thinks there really is no good or bad, that it all just is, and he or she condones past child sex abuse with that train of thought. In fact, she thinks everyone would condone it if we’d live in a different time period.
I may not have a popular vote on this, but this picture is very WRONG in my eyes.
  +2
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@sour mash n tart picklez,
“Pederasty in ancient Greece was a socially acknowledged relationship between an adult and a younger male usually in his teens.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece
I despair for you.
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]
# 30 April 2010 at 9:32 am

sour mash n tart picklez said:
These people at this party look absolutely normal, like every day people you’d see on the street, the store, work with, and neighbors. They do not have grotesque boils, horns or ugly faces to warn you. No, they have happy faces, but there is something very sinister here.
This couple was deeply involved with the cover up of the deaths of innocent people. How can they sit there and laugh and smile and party with their friends who probably also were involved in the cover up of the deaths of innocent people.
It makes me realize just how sick society is. Sure, we can sit here and say “I’d never do something like that”, but as much as we can’t imagine ourselves doing something like that, these people aren’t any different than us.
They don’t have half a brain missing, where you could say “perhaps it’s because they only have half a brain that they can’t feel natural human compassion for another life”.
Instead of fighting with each other, trying to find fault with the tone or the way someone posts, we need to really take truth to heart.
This truth is that even the nicest person can do horrible things and we’re all capable of it.
Instead of bickering, we need to think about what could have made ordinary people get caught up in a self improvement cult like James Ray, and further, what can cause a person to assist in such a diabolical cult in covering up deaths, or perhaps even having a hand in causing the deaths.
Yes it’s ugly, it’s the ugly and dark side of humanity, but if we are ever going to make any progress forward, we each need to seriously have courage and face that, so that we can find a way to educate ourselves and shield ourselves from a future James Ray.
Fanny Spanker mentioned gyms and how they know that only a small percentage of the members ever get anyprogress done. The point is that the gym actually has tools that if used will give results.
The Internet Marketing community, on the other hand, doesn’t always have tools that will give results. Most of the time, the products are bought based on simple math theories that are not practical to every day life implementation.
“Hey you can make a six figure income selling peanuts on the freeways! All you need to do is charge $3 for each bag of peanuts, and sell at least 100 bags a day. $4 x 100 = $400/day x 30 days = $12000 a month! It’s so easy because on the freeway tens of thousands of cars pass by every day! Its so easy an 8 year old can do it! No experience necessary. No education. No investment”
All these cheesy MLM, internet marketing, new age cults, religions are the same. YES there is big money being made with these things, but it’s only being made by a few at the top of the pyramid, due to deceit, lies, rip offs of the masses.
This is the “sacrifice” Josh and Megan have made. Two, once normal people who for whatever reasons decided to have a “happy” life at the expense of others.
In a nutshell, that’s the secret formula to getting success in this world. Sure you can work hard and get a measure of it, but anyone who’s knee deep in any industry, will surely have come across the powers that be and this is their ideology.
  +5
[Reply]

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 10:04 am
@sour mash n tart picklez, i would say the first step then is to do what you have done… that is, to acknowledge, much to the chagrin of our astute Camus fan across the Pond, that there exist such things as right and wrong, black and white, light and darkness. then, the next step is to grapple with the self… which will I promulgate? even if sometimes I fall short of the bar, which camp – the forces of darkness or those of the light – will I ally myself with?
from my standpoint (which is Christological, admittedly), there are demons, there are people who are not entirely people… or at least have turned their wills and destiny to the forces of darkness.
Some are obvious. Some are less-obvious. But all are deviant. And each of us, day by day, moment by moment, produce grotesqueries or things of beauty.
There is enough evil and deviance in the world as to make every fiber of my being to quake. Admitting it exists is step 1.
  +5
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
@Enoch_Root,
I agree with you completely, except for the implied slur on Camus.
He was a man who had no problems grappling with the complexities of his own human nature (he wrote about nothing else) and had no truck at all with relative morality–he was an active member of the French resistance cell ‘Combat’ under German occupation and his real life activity shows no leanings towards relative morality at all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Camus
Whatever your political and religious sympathies if you read him it becomes obvious that this was a man who walked his talk and, far from being nihilist, he was a life-affirming, anarchic rebel, about as far as you can get from an apologist for the status quo.
  +1
[Reply]

Enoch_Root Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
@stoic, I will check it out. only thing I can go on is the Stranger. HATED IT. but honestly know very little about him. so, I appreciate you giving me an excuse to learn I may be wrong about him and what he promoted.
  +1
[Reply]

Fanny Spanker Reply:
April 30th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Enoch_Root et al. C’mon. Where have I said that I ACT like there is no right or wrong (I am assuming that is the scary bit for people, especially as I am one of those freaked out atheists too)? As per the several comments above, I am a (mostly) law abiding citizen of my country. As much as any one is (unless they want to deny they jay walk and speed in their cars too)
I just acknowledge that I follow the rules as a choice, and disagree with those rules when they start heading into “God says so” or “Because it is right”.
I’ll state categorically (again) the whole JAR thing is a dreadful situation and people (as hard as it is to do) always need to speak out. I would probably be speaking out before the normal person because I am less tied up with fitting in with what society says I must do. Which is probably getting to the point I have been trying to make all along… it’s not up to OTHER people to speak out, it’s up to you and me.
Look how the Dutch are trying to educate their citizens about similar things…sadly not one seems to look where they should be.
LOSER!! ::   -13
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 4:21 am
@stoic I don’t think that’s LK,Too much vocabulary and intricacies in the writing.He,Lee Major Minor,is at thoughts.com these days ranting about the Government’s need to “exterminate” people.
@sour mash n tart picklez, “This truth is that even the nicest person can do horrible things and we’re all capable of it.” I must disagree,respectfully. The majority of people could never do what the Freakersons have done and are utterly incapable of such behavior. I don’t know about you,but some of us have turned down large sums of money when asked to participate in illegal or immoral activities. The majority of humans are not wired for committing bad deeds against others.That’s why we’re outraged by it.
Once I got involved, unknowingly, in a scam operation. It was a “school” that offered me excellent pay to teach a Saturday “Civil Service Exam Prep Course.” The owners were a nice couple who “promised students federal employment” upon completion of the $1,000 course. Soon after I started teaching there,I became suspicious of the program when one of the lessons was “How to Hold a Pencil When Taking an Exam.” Students had begun to question it,too,and several were angry because the owners weren’t refunding their money.
Since I honestly knew little about the CS Exam,I promised to find out more. I called Human Resources at an Air Force base, who told me a CS Exam prep course was unnecessary and could not guarantee employement. A few days later,before I had a chance to resign,the school was exposed/shut down when the local “In Your Corner” consumer-advocate news reporter showed up at the school.
Unlike M Fr, her sidekick,Joshie,& some JRI workers,I didn’t put loyalty for my employer before my principles. That’s called doing the right thing.
  +5
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 12:05 pm
@Jean D, Well said Jean, thank you! If someone truly believes that everyone is corruptible, they’ve completely given up on society/humanity. I don’t understand how these people can even look at themselves in the mirror. Do they see a human or a monster??? They’re extremely lost and it’s very disturbing.
  +2
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 1:19 am
@Bryan Neuman, Did anyone else notice the thumb ring on the person nearest the camera in the top pic? I wonder the same thing. Of course in these pics, they’re among “like minded individual d-bag zombies” and quite comfortable,but how do they act around normal people who have never participated in killing people?
@sour mash n tart picklez Understand your point now,and the potential for evil in humans is certainly one the most debated questions in history. It was even one of the important issues discussed by the framers of the Constitution and why they settled on our 3 branches of government.
Overall, I appreciate your points. But I hope you never believe you could do what Death Ray and his semi-humans did to Colleen, Liz, Kirby and James.
And let’s not forget the many other folks who survived, but continue to suffer from physical and mental injuries.
  +3
[Reply]

sour mash n tart picklez Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:42 am
@Jean D, while I don’t think I could do what these scum bags have done, I have serious doubts about our human society due to a not-so-nice childhood and continuing to see things like this in the world. I freely admit, that I do have serious trust issues and probably have a jaded worldview.
  0
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 9:21 am
@sour mash n tart picklez,
I think that jaded worldview is a sensible attitude to adopt in all matters online, particularly when dealing with salesmen. While it would be nice to be able to trust these anonymous voices we interact with so easily now, none of us know who we are really dealing with so trust should be the very last thing we extend.
  +1

Jean D Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 10:52 am
@sour mash n tart picklez, I’m cautious here also,and am well aware of the evil in the world. I,too,once believed some philosophy, maybe Divine Science,don’t remember,which claims evil is non-existent.I got the idea from a book my aunt gave me,I wasn’t part of a group. Today I know Evil exists in certain people,James Ray being one its masters. And his undead zombies;Fredricksons,Goulet,Hartle,Hermia Nelso,Kristina Bivins,among others,are right there in the catacombs with him.
On Twitter a few weeks ago,someone told me to “watch what you say” when I tweeted “JAR is a killer”,she revealed she currently follows a “teacher” who is a partner of Bill Harris! When I said Ray & Harris are still closely involved, and Harris supposedly made 11K off Spiritual Warrior 09,she responded, “Bill distanced himself from JAR.” But,how can that be,Droid? I saw the wedding pictures with my own eyes!
I’m darn sure not going to let Ray,Harris,any of them scare me. Screw that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again,James Ray is lucky he’s only being charged with manslaughter because he deserves 2nd,if not 1st degree.
  0

Enoch_Root Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 4:49 pm
@Bryan Neuman, Hello Bryan – dunno if you’ve had a chance to speak to James Shore’s widow, A, but if your interested, let me know. As for what you must be going through… shit, there’s nothing I can say.
  +1
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
May 10th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
@Enoch_Root, I’m actually friends with Alyssa on Facebook, thank you though!
  0
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 12:10 pm
@Jean D, …or they’re making up excuses for their own evil behavior.
  +2
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 12:49 pm
@Jean D, Harrison Ford said it best in Clear and Present Danger: “Not black and white Ritter, *right* and *wrong*!”
  +1
[Reply]

sour mash n tart picklez Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 1:03 pm
@Jean D, I agree with you the majority of people could never do what the Fredericksons are doing or what James Ray has done.
Having said that, I would like to make my communication clearer on this subject.
I am saying that we all have the capability within us to do the same things as the greatest geniuses of the world as well as the lowest scum.
It’s all about the amount of natural human compassion and love or lack of within our hearts and how we value ourselves.
The point is : It’s not enough to want to punish these scum bags like James Ray and Fredericksons. We need to understand why and how they came to be this way, so that maybe we can
help future generations prevent these things.
  +3
[Reply]

Lars Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 9:46 pm
In a subject as sad and terrible as this it seems that there are still people that would rather spread hate than understanding and compassion in their comments.
I have only been here a few times, but I won’t be back. The bullying by some of the commenters reminds me too much of the crowd control that must have happened in those sweat lodges and homeless exercises to make people do what they didn’t want to do, or believed in doing. Those people being abusive should be ashamed of themselves and their actions (if they are not so ignorant that they cannot see they are evil in their actions).
My thoughts are with bereaved.
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 8:30 am
@Lars,
It is possible to survive here.
I am a somewhat frail older person who is easily intimidated. Also, not a rocket scientist. Therefore, I usually just scroll past the most acerbic posts.
I am still able to contribute something on this board from time to time, and some of the posters are a delight to interact with.
  +2
[Reply]
# 30 April 2010 at 9:54 am

wondering why said:
James Ray made the list of Time Magazine’s “Least Influential People”!!
He made #5 on their Moron list.. I would have put him #1 on their Slimy Bastard list
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 9:36 am
@wondering why,
Is he above or below the Octomom?
Their ranking system is suspect.
  +3
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 3:49 pm
@Hippo, Ray is #5 Moron and Ocotomom is Moron #19.. I still think Ray should be above John Edwards in the Slimy Bastard category..
  +5
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 10:45 am
@wondering why,
I agree. Octomom is a moron and Ray is a slimy bastard.
Joel Stein is a smart guy; I don’t know why he didn’t realize that.
  0
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
May 4th, 2010 at 12:46 am
@Hippo, I don’t know what the heck those 3 angry folks are doing. They need to get out of the discussion and relax on the porch with some lemonade and cookies. But only after they’ve run around the block a few times.
Let’s not forget the 4 wonderful people whose lives were snuffed out prematurely by this evil blood-sucking sub-species who is currently rounding up a new batch of strays with some bogus radio show called Living in the Flow…of his urine stream.
@Droid I noticed the twitter censorer sent RayShouldPay a stern tweet today. I’m seriously considering reporting Kathleen L Schmidt to any and all organizations/agencies that promote her as a domestic abuse prevention advocate. Her “Project Empowerment” needs to be listed for fraud and/or collusion if she’s accepting contributions from the Master Shampire.
  +2
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
May 4th, 2010 at 7:41 am
@Jean D,
I’m so glad you’re here. I get a bit disoriented sometimes from the angry, irrational posts.
Please pass the lemonade.
  +2
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
May 4th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
@Hippo, I’m angry,too,just not at the Droid,even though he took a little moving break,and I was forced into a brief moment of DeathRay parody writing. For Pete’s sake,he provides this blog for us,free of charge,and never even asks for donations.
  +1
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
May 4th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
@Jean D, Salty’s
Hippo, Yakaru, Bryan Neuman, Cosmic Connie,Stoic, Terry,and a few others are the posts I like to read..I just skip most of the others (if they are ranting and raving) to get to the good stuff..
  +4

Hippo Reply:
May 5th, 2010 at 8:08 am
To Wondering Why:
You just made my day.
  +3

Antony Reply:
May 6th, 2010 at 12:02 am
@wondering why, along with his mate David Schirmer of Downunder
  +1
[Reply]
# 1 May 2010 at 1:33 pm

In summary? said:
After having read through all the posts above, a useful summary may be:
1. Don’t promise something that has a probability of not being able to deliver the promise made.
2. If whatever is being delivered has a probability of not being able to deliver the promise made OR has inherit risk(s) of failing to deliver the promise made (whether due to something inherent within the promise itself OR because of something inherent with the person who the promise is being made too), then make sure this person has a clear and DIRECT understanding of these inherit risks. (‘Direct’ meaning without covertly trying to hide the risks like a coward who might lose some sales because you’d have integrity).
3. Stop fucking up the world (and other humans) because you’re a scum bag who has no integrity to follow step 1 and step 2. Your inability to control your mental instabilities and out of control emotional needs is not an excuse for using people for your own personal ends. So stop being a fuck up and loser. The number of times you tell yourself a story about how ‘it’s okay’ and ‘value is relative’ is not correlated in any way with the degree to which reality will magically become different than the way it is…namely of you fucking up in life (your own and others’ lives) because you failed to follow step 1 and 2. The reality and story you tell yourself in your head doesn’t change the gravity of the situation and how much you’ve fucked up.
  +6
[Reply]

wondering Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 1:59 pm
@In summary?, Amen to that!
  +5
[Reply]

dodo Reply:
May 5th, 2010 at 3:31 am
@In summary?, Sounds like you are talking about none other than DAVID SCHIRMER.
  0
[Reply]
# 1 May 2010 at 1:37 pm

josiah said:
These people keep telling themselves that they have a right to fuck up thats why they never learn. The only voice they hear is their own.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 2 May 2010 at 1:12 am

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