Minion Uprising 2.0

Wangari Maathai ... small-and-big

Are you with me … or are you with me?

Or wait … are you against me?

WTF!  You’re against me? What did I ever do to you?

Oh I ruined your life? Okay … that makes sense. But the rest of you have no excuse.

This fake robot site is tough to read :: and understand … because it’s fucking awesome and it takes hard work to be in on the jokes. People don’t want to work hard … they want to get diabetes while watching other people dance with the stars.

I don’t fucking care about people who don’t fucking care about understanding … hopefully they’ll all get syphilis reading TMZ and Huffington Gawker … or leprosy … or mad cow … you know whatever I’m not picky.

But nobody ever ran a solo revolution … and a revolution is just what’s required.

Little actions :: big results …

… it’s what revolution has always been about. The audacity to say one thing … to do one thing.

We need another site that’s more digestible to the uninitiated. And victims need a place on the Internet to complain about being scammed without the conflicting clouds of the profit motive … under the protection of a group of people who understand the suffering and terror that comes with having your life destroyed by fraud.

Several of the members of this community have been discussing the possibility of forming a non-profit under the asshole terrorizing umbrella of the fake robot. A group effort to translate the avant-garde into the digestible … and to expand the message of truth beyond the army of one.

You wanna tie an armband and get your face dirty because you totally fucking think :: like I do … that we CAN do something about it?

Two requirements …

1. You haven’t promoted :: or associated in any way :: with anyone in the category bar in the previous year … and you’ll never promote them {or their shit stinking progeny} in the future.

Of course I welcome you half-in-half-outs to hear my words :: and participate in my discussions … but cyber-revolutionary soldiering 2.0 is for purists.

This shit must stop … end of story. Maybe you feel the same.

2. The brains behind the fake robot is the motherfucking boss. Things without founders fail. Things without direction fail. Democracy enforced via executive power … it’s the only thing that ever worked.

I care about sticking it to the worstest :: and I don’t believe it’s possible to compromise on matters involving fundamental human values … and I think unrelenting transparency is our only hope.

It stops.

Maybe you feel the same.

Be a part of something greater than yourself?

The many small actions of the many?

A password protected discussion about the future of our future is about to commence. Email me {with carrot cake} where I’ve always been if you want to participate in the conversation.

>> bleep bloop

80 thoughts on “Minion Uprising 2.0”

  1. I studied up about hopefully where they told us:

    “It’s never about the words so much as about the world view — about believing in either the power of order or the inevitability of chaos.”

    I thought the Marx brothers long already figured out about us being able to have both.

  2. Brilliant idea, and you’re right, this shit must stop. But…

    A long time ago I was scammed by Ed Dale. Actually I was scammed by one of his affiliates but that’s not really the point.

    I spent a year of my life doing everything I could to let people know that Ed Dale is a liar, a cheat, a thief, someone who uses his children for publicity etc. I complained to facebook, twitter, linkedin and all the other social networks that pimp his stuff for him. I showed people videos of Ed Dale with his performing monkey Dan Raine where he was pretty much taking the piss out of anyone who followed him by parading around in a pink mankini.

    Ed Dale and Dan Raine are pathetic soulless individuals who I dearly hope will die and rot in hell for all eternity.

    I complained to the FTC, I informed the police and I even wrote to their respective governments. Because I believe (as does everyone here I think) that these people are scum, are breaking the law, and need prosecuting.

    The result? Nothing. Not one positive response from any of them. I was completely ignored.

    So then I tried to trace Ed Dale and Dan Raine personally but found that they both hide behind forwarding addresses and answering services that act as blocks to anyone who wants to talk to them.

    I even considered going to a hotel where they held a conference with a view to challenging them on camera but thought better of it when I realised that I could end up in legal trouble myself (because if I ever see Dale I will punch him in the head until he stops moving).

    My point is that these fuckers are so greasy, so slippery and so surrounded my the idiots that follow them that I am starting to think that they have some kind of government protection. I’m joking, of course, but it does seem like that sometimes.

    I really hope that whoever takes part in this (and I have evidence on Dale in particular that I will happily share) succeeds in bringing Ed Dale, Dan Raine and all the others down. Permanently. It will be hard though, it will be very, very hard.

    1. @Ed Dale Scam, that’s why you need reinforcements.

      People were telling people Scientology was a scammy cult for years but it seemed like no one was listening. Then Anonymous came along and suddenly things broke wide open. And, yes, Scientology hasn’t completely gone under yet, but people are much less afraid to speak out than they ever were before, because now when Scientology tries to retaliate they end up looking even worse.

      You can’t ‘recruit’ Anonymous, though, (NYPA, as they say–Not Your Personal Army) so it’s up to us to get the ball rolling.

      1. @Holy Sh-, agreed.

        I hope my comment came across in the right way. I really want these guys to suffer and to be held accountable. I just think it’s a very big hill to climb because of the way they have people around them who will protect them.

        Completely with you on the scientology thing – But, that kind of proves my point – scientology is still going strong even with all the flack it gets.

        Even with Tom Cruise’s loony antics nothing seems to stick. It screams “we are are a cult” but then goes nuts when anyone dares to call it a cult.

        Just like Ed Dale and that pink mankini thing – anyone can see it’s a scam and he’s taking the piss, but if you ever accuse him of being a con man he fires back with legal (and sometimes worse) retaliation.

        Anyway, I’m happy to help in any way I can – let’s just make sure that this is done in a properly organised fashion and doesn’t fail. If this really is a chance to bring these guys down once and for all then let’s do it and not fuck it up, right?

        1. @Ed Dale Scam, Someone once said – and I know I’m paraphrasing badly here – that nothing worth doing is easy, that anything worth doing is worth doing well.

          Of course it won’t be easy; these folks are entrenched and spreading their influence daily. But as with Scientology, the purpose of Droid’s uprising (IMO) isn’t so much to unseat the entrenched as it is to educate those who might otherwise fall victim. That’s where unseating those in marketing power will come about: through educating their future consumers, just as those who would otherwise have spent their future earnings in veritable slavery to Scientology were turned away by those first whistle-blowers, and even moreso by Anonymous.

          Wangari (in the video above, which if you haven’t watched, please do – it’s very moving) had one small idea: plant trees. It was intended to solve the problem all the women around here complained about: lack of firewood. Her small idea ended up overthrowing a regime that sought to marginalize her and the other women and youth in her country who supported her.

          Now Droid has an idea. He has already been a thorn in the sides of these scammers for a few years, and like Wangari, he’s laughed off not because he isn’t dangerous, but because any organization that springs up around him could very well end their scams. They need him laughed at, not taken seriously, because taking one person with an idea seriously leads to big changes.

          I am sorry your one voice wasn’t respected or heard for what it was saying, and I can certainly understand your anger towards Ed Dale (and the affiliate who scammed you). But, as is often the case, one voice isn’t heard until it’s backed by dozens or hundreds of other voices. I’m going to be one of those voices, not because I was scammed, but because I see how life-destroying this IM cult is.

          Droid is willing to be the go-to guy for this, not – again, in my opinion – because he is power-hungry, but because he welcomes the legal harassment he knows will be coming because of it. He’ll be our umbrella when the crap starts raining, and we’ll be the crowd behind him supporting his words. This is our chance to build a supportive community dedicated to one thing – sharing our stories, putting chinks into the armor of the IM cult of personality one word at a time, until they’re so damaged they can’t afford to go on as they have.

          Our words alone are like pebbles tossed in a stream; we cause ripples, but it’s not enough to stop the water. But together? We can build something massive that dams up the source of IM influence. And here’s where my analogy breaks down, because streams are actually good things. :-p

      2. @Holy Sh-,

        Ok, I’m with you that Scientology = Bad(tm). I’m not sure that Anonymous is the best example though. I mean–they were cool when they were on street corners with the V masks holding up signs saying how bad Scientology is.

        Anonymous got a lot less cool when they were/are breaking into computers vigilante style, DDOSing or just sharing the private email addresses of government employees disregarding any amount of havoc churned up in their wake.

        “The System” sucks and in many ways, you can even call it a failure. But there’s a reason why vigilante style stuff only works well in movies and comic books.

        Having said that; I’m all in favor of getting more involved, as a group, in doing what we can to stop/prevent/mitigate the damage done by IM-MMO scammers.

        Furry cows moo and decompress.

        1. @Wyrd ::

          Yeah … breaking the law is a HUGE mistake which ruins everything. It’s the equivalent of violence … and we’ll never take part in it. Long run … it’s a losing strategy.

          Want to advocate for good? … then you best be good.

          @Alison ::

          Quite inspiring … as usual.

      3. @Holy Sh-, I’d just like to note that before Anonymous showed up in 2008, there were some of us who’d been working for well more than a decade to fertilize the ground. And we’d had quite a bit of success prior to Anonymous.

        Remember when Tom Cruise jumped on Oprah’s couch? That was in 2005. People thought he was whackjob crazy, and that was due to the longstanding internet meme that Scientology is a cracked-up space-alien cult. Later that year, Cruise mixed it up with Matt Lauer on the Today Show over Cruise’s criticism of Brooke Shields for taking medication for postpartum depression. Again, Scientology took hits because it doesn’t believe in psychiatry, psychology or ebil psych drugz–which help people (*waves* living proof!).

        Remember the South Park episode “Trapped in the Closet”? That was also in 2005, pre-Anonymous. It spelled out for everyone and his brother the story of Xenu, the evil galactic overlord.

        There are many, many, many other examples. My point? Anonymous came to ground that had been worked over by other people for years and years prior. I’m happy they did, but you know, we had made a lot of headway.

        Which brings me to another point. I suspect, like Scientology, taking down these liars, cheats and thieves is not going to be the work of a moment. If you get involved, (a) don’t expect that it will be over in six months or a year and (b) don’t expect these guys to go quietly. Remember, the guys who are in the French for “trade union” are always looking for new and different way to part the unsuspecting from their hard-earned money.

        I think I’ll stay on the sidelines for this one and cheer y’all on. The evil space-alien cult is still out there (although much diminished) and I do kind of have something of a reputation that I don’t think the Droid wants to tarnish his effort.

        1. @mirele, I’m fully aware that I’m simplifying a bit. The cracks in Scientology’s foundation were already forming with the battles with alt.religion.scientology back on Usenet and the death of Lisa McPherson. What Anonymous did was provide a surge of reinforcements to a battle that was already going on, and did it in such a way that Scientology had a much harder time fighting back. (How can you use Fair Game on an ENTIRE CROWD of people? Wearing MASKS?)

          @Wyrd, I know damn well that Anonymous Is Not Your Friend, which is why I didn’t even suggest the notion of asking Anonymous for help. Though if our fight against IM scammers becomes sufficiently relevant to their interests, who knows what can happen?

          1. @Holy Sh-,

            Please, PLEASE… (Begging here)do this.

            What to do to hurt Scientology (a little bit)

            Here’s one little strategy. First go to Google and type “Scientology” into the search box and then visit a couple of sites. You don’t have to read the shit but Google takes note of of the fact that you may be interested in Scientology.

            Then hopefully when you visit other sites with Adsense ads you should get at least one from Scientology. Click on it…

            Every time you do so it costs Scientology money.

            Simply typing Scientology into Google should bring up Ad words linking to their sites. Please click on them. Tell your friends and family to do the same thing. It only takes a second.

            They are probably paying Google around $1 dollar a click.

            It all mounts up ;)

            1. @Spike, gee, is that a black hat tactic? (mebbe it’s a black cat tactic)

              Whatever it is, I think it’s a stellar idea.

            2. @Spike, I seem to recall that strategy being discussed on Why We Protest and the consensus being it wasn’t as good an idea as it appeared on the surface for a number of reasons. But, Anonymous being what it is, I’m sure quite a few people did it anyway.

    2. @Ed Dale Scam, Just out of curiosity, what did ed dale do? Just asking because he seems to be one of the better Internet marketers out there with his 30 day challenge?

      1. @Rosie,
        Ed Dale + Kajabi
        Ed Dale + Immediate Edge (where you can make “immediate” mean 1 or 2 years old)
        Ed Dale + $997 Challenge Conference
        Ed Dale + $2,000 Dominiche – 2007 TELESEMINAR which must make it so super-secret that real domaining forums can’t put Ed Dale’s name or Dominiche anywhere into their discussions ever.
        Ed Dale + coming home seminar on the ALEXA=1,347,437 site…

        Seminar-Scam-Hint from ALEXA=1,347,437 site…

        Find this:

        “It was worth the admission price alone just for the contacts I’ve made.”

        = this:
        It sucked + took my money and I wish somehow to get it back, but maybe I can pretend somehow it was worth it…

        1. @Jack, I went to that – although I don’t recall meeting the person who wrote the blog review

      2. @Rosie,

        Saying he’s “one of the better Internet marketers out there” is like saying he’s one of the better Nigerian scammers out there or one of the better iPhone thieves who assault the elderly out there.

        Internet Marketers, Internet Marketing and Making Money Online are all a cartel-operated scam. And those terms, as used here and by many of the scammers themselves, refer to a completely separate business from the digital marketing, online marketing, Web marketing, social media marketing, search engine marketing, email marketing, affiliate marketing and so on as conducted by legitimate businesses.

        I’m glad Jack has told you the specific names Ed Dale has used for his various schemes to separate people from their money, because I couldn’t find that. I did compile an Ed Dale character study and 30 Day Challenge review from past comments about Ed Dale:

        Ed Dale

        Dan Raines Soul: Ed Dale just rehashes information from Gary Halbert, Seth Godin, Timothy Ferris and Merlin Mann.

        Vern: I learned that Ed Dale was [a] smooth-talking money-taking little shitwad quite content to take $300 from you every month while providing little more that feel good gibberish.

        422: Ed Dale used his children . . . to get people to buy crap.

        ballsack: Ed Dale and Frank Kern developed the underachiever method together. Ed Dale somehow found a way to push Kern out, monetize the challenge, replace Kern with unpaid sheeple.

        You should go read ballsack’s post in its entirety, actually.

        The 30 Day Challenge

        whatthewhat: [T]he 30 day challenge is just a 30 day long commercial where they give you extremely basic information mixed in with strong recommendations that you use certain software and services.

        Sundog: I did it – three years ago. Made $10 bucks. Totally worth the 30+ hours I wasted on it :/

        Ed Dale is full of shit: Ed Dale’s 30 day challenge is a 30 day series of crap that drip feeds the gullible idiots that sign up for it with little nuggets of crap laced with sales pitches for things like Kajabi and the immediate edge and anything else that Ed Dale and his lab rat Dan Raine can put together.


        andyhair: Go to Barnes & Noble. Buy any book on business or technology for less than $50. Read it two or three times. Assuming what you read makes sense, take immediate action based on what you read. You’ll get more from that than any “course” from this gang of idiots.

        Lanna (that’s me): “The Challenge” [is] basically the dumbest shit ever. To save you time, here’s a breakdown of the intelligent alternatives:

        Go get intelligent alternatives while supplies last!

    1. @Cosmic Connie, When you look at how far back scams go in human history, it’s discouraging. Then again, the internet is something entirely new in human history. So there’s a glimmer!

      1. @Sundog,

        Right. But it isn’t about totally obliterating every trace of scammy-ness from everywheres. Sure, that’d be cool. But it seems to just be in people’s nature to be trusting and it’s also in people’s nature to take advantage of the trust of others.

        But as you also said, the Internet is new. So IMHO (haven’t checked figures) there’s been an explosion of scammy-ness–much of it probably focused around IM-MMO and New Age stuff.

        But if a whole bunch of people helped get the word out about the scammy-ness of it all…

        Well I don’t think it’ll ever go away, but maybe we could knock it back a ways–kind of like getting rid of a bunch of kudzu.

        Furry cows moo and decompress.

  3. Agreed that a good number of victims would find this site inaccesible and a more generic (if more boring) platform could really assist the Salty Droid mission.

    The mission – or even manifesto – might do with some more definition.

    This site goes for individuals – all well and good – and the odd group, like the warrior forum, or odd company (lawyer, bank) that support the low life.

    But it is organisations that rake it in as much if not more than the individual scammers – ClickBank, Affiliate Companies, plus the larger institutions have their fingers in the rather shitty pie.

    For example a blog post I wrote about the nature of Scientology and confidence tricskters attracted a Scientology ad via Google Adsense. I dropped Adsense. Google tries to promote itself as cleaner than clean – yet they run ads on their platform from Scientology???

    Any more accessible anti scammer site should take in a wider remit – there seem to be very dodgy diet ‘products’ available via Facebook ads – should the new droid site focus on exposing the companies who provide the mechanics to the scammers, and help them clean up their act, as well as the individuals (there will always be more where they came from)? Just thinking…

    1. @Just Thinking ::

      That’s right I think … but you’ve got to pick your moments. Those fights come with big trouble unless you’re in possession of informational superiority. That’s not how I’d describe myself in re Google at the moment.

      It’s good to chew what you’ve already bitten off before you take another bite.

    2. @Just Thinking, Google already got hit with a $500 million dollar settlement for selling ads to illegal prescription drug companies. And it’s rumored that Google still made a profit from the crime. They don’t give a fuck where the money comes from.

    3. @Just Thinking,

      Going after ClickBank and PowerPay would undercut the very life blood of the scammers; their cash flow. I really like the idea. Knock them out and ALL the IM scammers, large and small, are going to hurt and hurt badly.

      1. @Stiffler’s Mom,

        There may be something to this…if these guys are acting like a bank, they should be regulated like a bank. I don’t know if they ARE acting like banks, but maybe that’s something worth looking into. I have a conflict of interest since I work for a too big to fail financial institution.

        But if Too Big To Fails have to “Know Your Customer” and have to make sure every account holder is clean via the Office of Foreign Assets Control’s (OFAC) Specially Designated Nationals (SDN) list, what about these guys? (And that is just ONE avenue.)

        Seriously, though…there is no “product” being sold here, it’s entirely ripe for some very sophisticated money laundering. Just A Thought.

        1. @mirele, Clickbank acts more like paypal/ebay for scammers/Internet Marketers!

          technically not a bank but I sure as hell have no idea how they manage to maintain their merchant accounts. The charge back ratios at clickbank must be astronomical! Just that probably needs to be investigated at some point in time. Someone or something must be protecting them from the rath of the banks that they must be putting the transactions through.

          Add to this that the wolf of wallstreet! Jordan Blefort apparently owns the place and you probably have a match made in hell! Not sure if this last bit is true can anyone confirm it? It is just what i heard.

  4. Oh please, let’s do.

    Imagine a one-stop shop for people to add their names/stories according to IM predator. With all of the contributions received, it will, sure as shit, rank high in Google for the names of the individual scamsters.

    Untainted by the stain of extortion. Truly impartial.

    I have visions of family trees. It’s such an incestuous, tangled web. Who’s connected to who, who belongs to which associations, who owns software, processors, and/or runs anything involved with these scammers. Who’s truly doing you – and everyone else.

    Would I have purchased a phone from Virgin had I realized how many scammers Sir Richard rubs elbows with? I think not.

    While I believe I’m not eligible yet rt association, I’m happy to contribute to whatever degree I’m allowed.


  5. Impatient Me: Let’s grow some trees!

    Impatient Me: Come on, trees! Grow! Grow, dang you, grow!

    [ 1-5 yrs later ]

    Internet fraud still happens, but there’s a “trusted authority” people can go to (kinda like snopes is for email) to try to find out what’s what.

    Impatient Me: GROW, TREES, GROOOOW!

    [ 1-5 more yrs ]

    Internet fraud still happens, but the blatant, mega, big frauds like Frank Kearns and Stephen Pierce are either in prison or at least no longer commanding online presences. They remain on a watch list because they keep (and will forever) try again. And again. And again. It’s their nature. []

    Impatient Me: Ok, we got some trees. But you need to be much, bigger, and we need many-much more of ya. Grow bigger, trees. GROOOOOOOOW!

    [ 1-5 more yrs ]

    Internet fraud still happens, but now and forever IM-MMO has the same status in peoples’ minds as 419 email scams. Warrior forum is either offline or under new, actually reputable management. In spite of Salty’s warning, people still try to “make money online”. And maybe on rare occasions they succeed (not suckceed), but their goals and profits are a lot more modest. And, while reputation still matters (of course) and entities cross-promote one another (of course), there’s a self-imposed ban on anyone offering to sell anyone else courses on how to “make money online” or “start an online business”, etc.

    Impatient Me: This is good. But we still need more trees. The sick machine was here before the Internet. Most folks, somewhere through life, learn TNSTAAFL but without examples of what the mirage free lunch would actually look like most folks forget that warning the moment someone dangles what looks like easy money in front of their face.

    So… we need even more trees.

    And a cow…

    Furry cows moo and decompress.

  6. Fun fact: I met Daniel Arap Moi a couple of years before he was deposed. If you think Frank Kern and Tony Robbins are slick predators, you would have been blown away by how that guy operated.

    1. @Sundog ::

      It’s like the same animal … just depends how much you feed it.

      Imagine the yes-men trolls we’d have around here if the IM hucksters were threatening to mutilate the families of people who didn’t toe the line.

      It could always be worse!

      Today’s message of positive positivity.

  7. The Salty Droid (i.e. this entire site + commenters) has opened up a huge amount of territory. There’s plenty of opportunity for that territory to be planted and sowed. In the past I’ve always thought it was important to speak out simply for its own sake, but I think here there really is a chance to set the cat among the pigeons – or the robot among the rats.

    Count me in!

  8. Site maintenance over the weekend … so don’t stress the site being down.

    Some trouble with the password post :: you’re not an idiot if you can’t sign in … well maybe you are an idiot … but that’s not why you can’t sign in.

  9. Awesome job with the self awareness. I love to read about it. Keep digging into the things you dig into. Promote Cosmic Connie on your days off. Real people are losing real money to these scumbags, all information is welcome.

  10. Hi Salty – you may not remember me, but I have chosen a theme song for your efforts:

    Before you advertise
    All the fame is implied
    With no fortune unseen
    Sell the rights
    To your blight

    While I’m dulled by excess
    And a cynic at best
    My art imitates crime
    Paid for by
    The allies
    So invest

    Now I’m finding truth is a ruin
    Nauseous end that nobody is pursuing
    Staring into glassy eyes
    There’s a vintage thirst returning
    But I’m sheltered by my channel-surfing
    Every famine virtual

    A tribute to false memories
    With conviction
    Cheap imitation
    Is it fashion or disease?
    Remains a mouth to feed

    Sell the rights
    To your blight
    And you’ll eat

    Now I’m finding truth is a ruin
    Nauseous end that nobody is pursuing
    Staring into glassy eyes
    See the vintage robot wearied
    Then awakened by revision theories
    Every famine virtual

  11. Hello IM douchebags. How would you enjoy having your douchebaggery exposed? Would you like that? Okay then. Because I can help with that.

  12. ditto re Dale. He’s a total queen who has no trouble taking your money and giving useless jibberish in exchange.

  13. Salty, I’d love to be part of it but I don’t know where you’ve “always been” so can’t contact you by email. You have mine now though.

    For years I’ve argued against the scammers and exposed many of them online (including the likes of Ed Dale). It would be great if you could drop me an email. I’ve got something you’d be really interested in.

    1. @anti-scammer, Guess you missed the “contact” on the menu bar at the very top of the page, or the email address that appears immediately below each and every comment box. ‘Cuz, that’s where SD has always been…

  14. Well of course I am in…but I was in a long time ago.

    This response is for people like me, who have clients and make their living off clients, and are therefore sensitive to the associations if being connected to this uprising.

    I had to come to a place (in the recent past), where I decided being openly against things was not a deterrent to anything I wanted anyway. I was holding back, because connecting too openly with such “anti-anything” is, or can be, detrimental to getting new clients. Luckily, I don’t really need new clients, so took the self-indulgent plunge.

    Nothing bad happened – I still get tons of new clients. Maybe not as many as otherwise, but who knows. Still too many to handle every day.

    I do imagine I get less now, since some are going to be repulsed by me saying fuck, and supporting fake robot missions sometimes, but so be it. My best clients get it, and would never worry (most appreciate a passionate vendor)…so I will simply give them more time if I can.

    Point is, this stuff (all the crap exposed here) is a shame and a stain, and needs to be addressed and redressed openly. If people with faces and identities scurry to the dark corners of the map every time we have to make a stand, it is going to leave a void. I have a face, an address, and I am firmly on the side of people NOT getting ass-fucked for their ignorance. I see that only as being on the side trying to open-up doors and windows to let the air in, so we can all evaluate things as they are. If I lose business because I BELIEVE in honest business with open terms, I am willing to do that all day long.

    I am willing to risk the fact that any client of mine has the sense to see what this site is, and know how it differs from my work…and if they are offended by my associations, I probably don’t want them as clients anyway, I am sure. I’ll never know – because I am all in, and not looking back at what may have happened or what might occur – I am looking for what I can do next, to help make this shit stop. And the new clients aren’t slowing down for what I see, anyway.
    You know where you can find me, too.

    1. @Martypants,

      Thanks for this. I’ve been wading out from the dark corners, one tweet or LinkedIn comment at a time, but I am definitely holding back when I post with my face and identity.

      I see there’s been no big smear campaign against you by The Syndicate, which was my big fear. As for clients, yes, if they have a problem with me taking a stand against fraud, they can take their business elsewhere.

      My other fears are about clients getting dragged into this:
      Have you ever had someone harass one of your clients over your anti-scam actions?
      People – trolls, defenders, apologists, newbies – often ask how the scammers covered here are any different from some legitimate company or business model. When you’re in the open, are you asked how they differ from a specific company on your client list?

      1. @Lanna, Actually, I was kind coerced into it originally…a friend asked for a “salty” kind of post, and he posted it with my name on it before I could tell him not to – not one of my author names. It spooked me for the reasons you mention, but nothing bad happened, so I got used to it.
        I have never had one of my clients get harassed (except by me of course), but I don’t see how they would really…I am not usually listing active clients or anything.
        If there was a smear campaign leveraged, I am not too worried about it – if they really wanted to go down that path, I would not back down from it (I have a few tricks, too – and I am on your side if something bad ever happens). But I don’t get as spicy as the droid does, nor do I get as personal as he does, very intentionally – because I don’t have the facts in my court to back up an attack like Salty does. Plus, it is handled from that way, here. So typically, I am just careful in how I word it but sometimes I get a little amped for sure. :)
        I have people occasionally troll, but I moderate comments anyway, so it is nothing. I don’t get a ton of traffic, but I get enough to stay busy – and being openly anti-scammer has not made the phone stop ringing, nor has it made people aggressively attack me.
        Ryan and Connie have to endure more than I do, I am sure – Connie gets under these guys’ skin a lot, so they blacklist her, and make veiled comments about trolls and haters – but it never slowed her down, so I took a cue from her for sure.
        I’ll be proud to stand beside you in this Lanna…no matter how you choose to handle it.

        1. @Martypants, @Lanna, @Jack: This is an interesting thread on a topic I’ve often mulled over. I generally err on the side of tact myself and rarely ever write the word “fuck” (gee, that felt GOOD), though I’m not averse to using it in conversation with people I know. For my diplomacy I have been accused by some of being too easy on my targets. But I’ve been accused by others of being malicious/hurtful/borderline-defamatory. And both opinions are based on what I’ve written on my hobby blog.

          You just can’t please everyone. But I have concluded that when it comes to blogging, if you’re not pissing someone off, you’re not doing your job.

          What about my professional life? My partner and I have worked on self-help (mostly relationship) books and some business books, as well as a couple of more spiritually oriented works, and some of those authors have been fans of some of the people and things I snark about. But I’ve never attempted to hide who I am and what I do on Whirled Musings, and, much like Marty, I tell myself that being open about my interests has actually screened out undesirable clients.

          But I’ve still asked myself if being a snarky blogger, with my real name out there for all to see, has cost me clients. Maybe, but it’s hard to say, although a certain Pat O. strongly insinuated on his blog some time back that my career had “cratered” because of my passion for snarking.

          My career never cratered, but the face of the business changed. However, other things were happening at precisely the same time my blog was hitting its stride. The economy was falling apart, and three major clients were faced with business crises and cancelled or postponed their projects. Moreover, “self-publishing” technology was allowing more people to almost instantly create “books” without the help of (expensive) professional writers, editors, designers, and pre-press folks. 2009 was NOT a good year on many counts. We’ve adapted and still have managed to make a living doing what we love most: word slinging. The book part of the business may be coming back too, slowly but surely. But I think we’ll always have writing work regardless.

          I should note that that some folks who like my work have criticized me for being so openly supportive of Salty’s efforts. He’s too extreme, they say. He lacks credibility, they claim. Balderdash. I have thanked these people for their consideration for my welfare, but have let them know that I’ve long believed in what Jason is doing, and that they should make a serious effort to read beyond the taunts and curses. Now perhaps they won’t have that as an excuse. I applaud Jason for taking his efforts a step further into the mainstream, without compromising either his beliefs or his intentions.

          And (in case it is not glaringly apparent) I am in.

          1. @Cosmic Connie,

            “I should note that that some folks who like my work have criticized me for being so openly supportive of Salty’s efforts.”

            Actually, when I first came to via the Naomi Dunford death threats debacle, your clear support of @SD in the comments was persuasive to me.

            I had come to with a–using IM-speak–“pre-frame” of this site as “MeanSite2”. I was pre-disposed to see Anthony as a crazy religious fundamentalist and Salty Droid as… I dunno, some kind of 1950s robot spinning around in circles randomly spewing hate and battery acid.

            The chaos in the comments of the article Naomi Dunford’s Death Threats and Hate Crimes left me kinda confused and not knowing what to think. On the one hand, there was Naomi’s side. But she didn’t have any comments running on her blog and was completely silent on the matter. So now there were two very different conflicting spins to the story emerging.

            Salty’s next article, Letter to Two Dave Navarros helped me understand not much. The narrative was pretty plain easy to comprehend, and certainly had plausibility, but @SD did not yet have credibility to me. (Man those negative pre-fames–they’re a bitch.)

            But in the comments, two things:

            1) @SD responding to my comment in a direct, non-potty mouth way (my handle was Iam3r).

            2) (more importantly) You had comment that started with “also been wondering if the tale of“. You were on @SD’s side. But you were also not entirely sure what to make of the specific brouhaha. And you closed with

            “But it’s also wrong for Naomi to exploit this past tragedy, which is what she seems to be doing.

            “Anyway, I’m glad Salty is getting back to the real issues: the scams.”

            The specific phrasing of your words (i.e. “which is what she seems to be doing”), and the final statement about “the real issues” went a long way towards undoing the pre-framing and putting my mind back to a state of neutral opinion on the whole thing.

            So, Salty’s Two Dave’s article didn’t convince me. But after your comment, I was ready to be convinced.

            Salty’s next article convinced me: Spider Shit Storm / Naomi Dunford Chats About the Naomi Dunford Scam

            “Dave Navarro and Naomi Dunford are having an affair … they’re shagging … they both betrayed their families for a bunch of shagging …

            “… or something.

            . . .

            “Every person I asked about this situation immediately started in on the shagging. Haven’t you people ever noticed how I write about fraud rings?”

            Ok. … So it’s a major shift in perception to go from seeing this site as nothing but MeanSite2 where hate and dirty laundry is spewed all over to seeing this site as a place where corpulent frauds are revealed as such and ridiculed appropriately.

            But that was a pretty good opening. And @SD followed it up with a detailed chat log.

            The chat log was, to my mind, pure solid gold evidence. I mean–sure–it could have been faked. But it’s hard to see the motive for faking it. Especially since really does cover many more scammers than just Naomi.

            So there it was finally for certain: Naomi was (is) a Scammy Mc. Scamster-son, Dave was (is?) a scammer in training, and all the rest was just a lot of Really Bad Stuff. That Bad Stuff that happened, Naomi took it and spun it so that it would tell the story that would get her the most attention.

            And day by day it became easier to understand The Droid’s perspective on the whole thing. Also, I checked out older articles–sometimes from links in current articles and sometimes from keyword searches or because there were folks actively posting there.

            So thanks for writing the way that you do, @Cosmic Connie. Your perspective helped me to keep an open mind at a critical time. :-)

            Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @Martypants,

      “if they are offended by my associations, I probably don’t want them as clients anyway”

      Great way for living life with less stress.

  15. Wow! Got sidetracked with various family crises and hadn’t been back to visit recently. Sorry I wasn’t here for the grand opening, but I’m definitely in now! I’ve so often I had a place to link to that wasn’t going to put off all the various people- from social business types to ardent Christians to the elderly who are often the target for the plausible-sounding thin wedge of these scammers. Having tried (often!) to research the background of a claim and found that they are experts at spamming search results- making independent information all but impossible to find it would sure be terrific to have some straight talk and personal experiences ranking high. Anyway, enough jumping up and down and cheering- shooting you an email, Droid!

  16. I’m not sure if others have made the connections between Scientology and a lot of these scams. If you look into Trudeau’s scams (the only one I followed up on) you will find that Trudeau is a Scientologist who pushes the religion on his employees. Several of his underlings have ties to scientology. One of them Leonard Coldwell lost a lawsuit in Germany when he was sued for brainwashing his followers and using Scientology to do it. After losing the lawsuit and the appeal, then being forced to pay his adversary’s legal bills, he came to the US and joined Trudeau’s traveling carnival.

    If you check into some of his upper level MLM recruiters you will find that several of them are based out of Clearwater Florida. One in particular erased all mentions of Clearwater from his online persona when called on it. Many of them try to operate behind non profit corporations (based out of Clearwater of course) and refer back and forth to each other when they need references or proof that they are not Scientologists.

    Many of the indoctinated follow the arguing strategy of Scientology when they encounter detractors. (Scientologists have SPs, Gin members have jealous losers) They both systematically eliminate friends and family who don’t share their interest in wealth and world domination through expensive seminars and training.

    Either some of these MLM scams are being run for the benefit of Scientology or Scientologists learn how to ply their trade on wogs independently. Either way, the connections are there, the operations are identical, the brainwashing is the same and there are way too many Scientologists involved for this to be a coincidence.

    If Anonymous wants to attack Scientology, their best bet would be to attack and expose Scientology’s (or Scientologists’) MLM/internet scam money supply.

    1. @Tom banjo, You’re prolly right about some of the Kevin True-dough followers and some of the upper-level GIN (Global Information Network) members having Scientology ties. That information, including the Clearwater connection (hey, that’s a great name for a book title, “The Clearwater Connection”) is valuable and good to know. I doubt that all of the scammers Salty targets here have direct ties to Scientology, but there’s no doubt that many have borrowed some of its ideas and techniques (and in some cases the reverse could be true).

      I do know that Kevin True-dough has been reported by some to be an ex-Scientologist. Whether that is true or not, he has strongly recommended that his followers read “Dianetics” — the ElronHub work that started the whole foul Scientology ball rolling back in 1950. In his first book, “Natural Cures,” KT recommends Scientology “auditing.” And there seems to be written proof that, at least at one time, his employees were strongly encouraged (coerced, perhaps?) to read “Dianetics” and to avail themselves of Scientology’s many benefits. Here’s a link to a 2003 inter-office memo:

      More info here:

      As for that joker Leonard Coldwell (formerly known as Bernd Klein, sometimes as Bernd Witchner)… well, he’s worth at least a whole separate blog post (I’m working on it, I’m working on it!). Coldwell, who is not a medical doctor, “Bernd” his bridges in Germany and, as you indicated, has now found a ripe and gullible market in the US with his so-called cancer “cures” and other medical-miracle/selfish-help MLM gimmicks. He has been riding on KT’s coattails for a few years but seems to have throngs of worshipful followers in his own right, who hang on his every word. It’s really pretty disgusting.

      In any event, if you look around a while, you will see that Salty has lambasted Scientology pretty well on this blog.

    1. @Sheldon, What a douche. He gets all bitchy about the fact that the article reported on “a rumor” that he sold leads and goes on and on about how wrong that is….then talking about Jason says in an aside (I hear he’s not even licensed to practice law) something that is public record in Illinois and clearly shows he is a licensed attorney who is voluntarily inactive. (same status as Michelle Obama btw — cuz you can’t practice law when you’re married to the President).

      It’s stupid expensive to maintain an active license when you aren’t practicing. The annual dues to the ARDC are much much cheaper when inactive. PLUS, attorneys with an active license are required to complete a ton of Mandatory Continuing Legal Education which takes up a ton of time and can also be quite expensive. (I know this is an old argument they’ve made time and time aging but I just read the “You need to get mad!” speech in a comment salty posted on another article and…well…I am mad dammit.

      I’m drawing a hard line in general from know on. Whenever possible, I’m calling out people on their nonsense. (Of course some get it a bit more gently than others)

      Also, I loved how he harped on the point about Jason’s “editing” of the videos was slanderous and acted all outraged that an attorney would ever dare use copyright protected material and create a slanderous video….. if you have such a great case against Jason, then sue him you dip shit!!! Oh, wait, you’ve known about that video FOREVER and haven’t down a damn thing about it. Guess you don’t want to turn over all that discovery to a guy with a big mouth.

      Suck it Kern, you’re a turd.

    2. @Sheldon, I accidentally posted this link on the wrong post :P. I meant to post the link on the post about the recent verge article.

    3. What is entertaining is reading the comments there and here. Are people living on the same planet(s)?
      I am all about fighting evil, but I am picking my priorities and my timing. E.g., let’s compare IM’rs with the drug cartels in Mexico and elsewhere. Let’s see how many decapitated bodies did they find this week, and how many drug addicts are there because of that trade?
      If you want to prioritize the use of your life energy, there are minor evils and there are great evils.
      Yes, preying on people who are desperate to find some way to survive or improve their lives is despicable. Torturing and decapitating journalists because they report your activities is another level.
      Yes, this web site is providing a service, but the broad brush does not serve truth and helps evil.

      1. @WhatAboutPerspective, So maybe instead we should all go down to Mexico and fight the drug cartels? Will you be waiting there for us with body armor and translators?

        I didn’t realize all the specific posts here about specific scammers and their specific crimes was actually a broad brush. I also didn’t realize that talking about scammers and crimes in detail does not “serve truth” and “helps evil.”

        I guess when you said, “preying on people who are desperate to find some way to survive or improve their lives is despicable,” you really meant, “nothing to get worked up about.”

        Who would ever have guessed that our justice system, by identifying and incarcerating pesky “mediocre” criminals, is just “helping evil.”

        Be sure to have plenty of enchiladas and jungle panchos waiting!

        1. @Boris Goodenov,

          Appreciate your response.
          Of course, you are right within the context of your semantics, etc., as are most intelligent people everywhere, much of the time, which is the main point.
          Relating to accurate perspective (for starters)–understanding and interpreting facts accurately and fully, taking nothing for granted, while understanding your own neurological, psychological and cultural, etc. conditioning.
          E.g., take a look at the (supposed) Frank Kern Verge response and the many positive comments by people who (supposedly) have bought his materials. Take a look at the (supposed) people who (supposedly) are familiar with Kern’s methods and materials on this site. How do you explain the discrepancy?
          When you DON’T accurately and fully interpret facts, including a complete understanding of your interpretive process, AND broadcast your interpretation as somehow being TRUE, you are helping evil, PERIOD.
          Believe me, I am as extreme, probably more so, about fighting evil as Salty is, but I am also extreme about truth (recognizing that there is considerable epistemological disagreement as to what truth is.)
          Note also, that I mention priorities. Yes, I deeply want to go after those guys, have no doubt. But as you imply, what about effectiveness? What about priorities (action, organization, time frame (10 years, 50 years, 300 years, etc., etc.?)
          Isn’t this thread about organizing and effectiveness? You want to do away with the likes of scammers, you better be effective in doing away with evil. Or is this all just talk? For me rooting out evil is the real priority, or as somebody implied before, you are just playing a whack-a-mole game.
          To be sure, I am not saying that we should not act at the many levels of action that are available to us. That is why I recognize the service this site provides, but it is very clear that the interpretations of the claims made here and elsewhere vary greatly, and that is why that I also recognize the evil that is being done.

            1. Thanks @Jack,

              That link is certainly illustrative re some of my points, lol.

              I came here checking into some IM’r or another from Google. Don’t remember exactly.

              Btw, I have read, I think, all of the comments made here re Kern. I also read all of the comments on the posted link above re Kern’s response, as of yesterday. I also have a fair amount of Kern’s stuff, some of which delivers value IMO.

              At this point I have no strong opinion about Kern, pro or con. However, I am struck by the discrepancies and am curious how people explain them, in a reasoned way, that is.

              No takers so far, I guess.

          1. @WhatAboutPerspective,

            my condolences on the loss of your ability to make sense. It’s always tough when that happens. Here is something that might help. Internet Marketing is based on an equation:

            “success” = a+b+c+d+e+f, where…

            a = (manipulative and exploitative sales tactics + outright lies)
            b = (worthless products and services)
            c = (outrageous prices based on (a))
            d = (inexperienced, vulnerable, desperate customers + credit cards)
            e = (affiliate programs that offers big incentive to clueless wannabes to pitch your crap to (d))
            f = (a so-called syndicate of likeminded sleazebags who also pitch your crap to their lists of (d)) and swarm out like roaches to defend you when you’re being criticized by fake robots and screwed over ex-customers.)

            See, there’s no part of that equation that isn’t evil. But that IS the entire business model. Those who are involved in IM at the “highest” levels who have been featured on this site have publicly admitted to doing all of these things. There are no secrets, it’s all out there. The problem is not that “truth” is hard to find, it is that the defenders of Internet Marketing either do not know right from wrong…. or do not care.

            1. @Regrets, I think based on what you put up there and other ideas, that if a person can follow along with the step-by-step scam training and use your ideas, fake social proof, fake-thud perceived values, etc., then it’s probably OK about WhatAboutPerspective being right about it can work for people to scam other people from their money using the scam-money instruction steps.

              Finally, the discrepancy problem is solved and we didn’t even have to invoke George Polya.

            2. @Regrets,

              Thank you. Yes, I have a very tough time making sense of things.

              Your equations are quite good. If you don’t mind, I shall make use of them.

              Unfortunately, in addition, to being unable to make very good sense, I also have a very difficult time applying equations.

              Somehow, when I try to apply them, many people claim that I don’t know what I am doing. In addition, it seems that when other people do that, the same conflicts (evil?) arise.

              It almost makes you think that it is better to be in a cult, where everybody thinks the same way.

              E.g., have you applied your equations with the data supplied by Sheldon’s link?

      2. @WhatAboutPerspective ::

        Go say nothing on some other post … or just use a sharpie {or feces} and write it on your own screen … then you can read it over and over and motivated yourself into a state of successful motivation … and you can too … etc … fuck off.

  17. @WhatAboutPerspective:

    “Take a look at the (supposed) Frank Kern Verge response and the many positive comments by people who (supposedly) have bought his materials…How do you explain the discrepancy?”

    There is no need to. If fraud occurred, fraud occurred. Crimes by society’s definition and statute will always be crimes, independent of the perceptions or misperceptions of some.

    In a country of 313,550,589 people, what you refer to is not surprising nor does it “offset” the commission of a crime. Some people also believe in Bigfoot, some want to believe in Bigfoot, and others will vigorously defend their belief in Bigfoot because they feel their own integrity is in question when their favorite ebook on Bigfoot is exposed as a made-up fraud.

    “You want to do away with the likes of scammers, you better be effective in doing away with evil. Or is this all just talk?”

    Now you are simply waving your hands around in the air.

    You know very well that nobody is going to “do away” with evil, and nobody is going to “do away” with scammers.

    We can, however, stop some scammers, and that IS happening.

    We do thank you for your contribution of theory. If you ever stop rubbing your chin and giving vague stage directions from your recliner, feel free to take some specific, concrete action that will make a difference in the lives of any one or more real people. We’ll continue to do just that.

    1. @Boris Goodenov,

      It seems that you are (perhaps, sort of) rejecting some things out of hand.

      I do not quite understand that.

      In any case, thank you for your comments and time. You are teaching me and I always like to learn (seriously.)

    2. @Boris Goodenov,

      Re: We can, however, stop some scammers, and that IS happening.

      Just reading over Salty’s blog, my thought is that some of these scammers self-destruct.

      But, I’m not sure anything on this, or any other, blog is going to stop any of them … and if it does, it’s a “heads of the hydra” thing where another will just rise to take their place.

      I think this is a great blog but, in all honesty does anyone believe that the folks most likely to get sucked in by these scammers, i.e., “make money online” noobs, will understand much of what Salty is saying?

      And if they do, will they listen anyway?

      The unfortunate reality is that many of the folks defrauded by these hucksters will be the first to defend them, I guess because it beats admitting that, in those people’s view, you were a sucker and realizing that your dream to “make a six figure income online” was just that … a fantasy.

      A lot of these folks are very invested in that fantasy because it provides, in their mind, a way out of the desperate and/or hopeless circumstance that I’d guess many they see themselves as being in … and which led to their getting involved in … or drawn to. these fraudulent schemes to begin with.

      And even if these folks come across Salty’s blog and are able to figure out what he’s talking about, at least some … those are even familiar with names like Kern, which many might not be because they’re being hustled by an “affiliate” … will just head back to “Warrior” type forums and receive assurance that Salty is, for example, “just jealous of “successful” people and the rest of the yadda, yadda, yadda crap many “internet marketers” use to play the mark.

      So what’s easier to believe?

      A droid telling you there’s no hope of ever achieving your “six figure income” dream (often while sleeping and without effort) or a passel of scamsters assuring you that this is possible … so long as you don’t get sucked into the “negative thinking” promoted by a “jealous” droid?

      I tend to think that the only way to stop IM scammers … and the other, in my view, curse of the web “porn sites” … and I don’t say this from a “moral” viewpoint, just a crap that junks up the web perspective … is to penalize the hosts that allow these sites on their servers.

      Which likely won’t happen in the near future.

      In the interim, if people focus their attention on preventing at least one person … and hopefully a lot more … from falling into the clutches of the IM scammers, I think that’s about the best anyone could aim towards.

      But, it’s hard to save people from themselves … and I don’t mean this from the fraudster “people are accountable for their own actions” fraudster rationale … which maybe I’d buy into more if the fraudsters were up front with their actual intent, e.g., “I’m going to cheat you out of your money and you’ll never make a dime from my fraudulent scheme” and some poor sap went ahead and bought anyway.

      But of course, that’s not what they do.

      Now … what was my point? Geez, can’t remember.

  18. Talk about scammers self-destructing… it appears that some of the rats are leaving the sinking GIN ship, so at some point soon, Kevin True-dough may have to find another income stream. But I wouldn’t count on some of those mutineers to join the Minion Uprising any time soon. I’m not THAT idealistic.

Comments are closed.