43 Comments »

Basil Scrotum said:
First Tunisia.
Then Egyot.
Next Yemen

  +6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
@Basil Scrotum ::
… and then ::
Jordan
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Iran
China
North Korea
Libya
Zimbabwe
Sudan
Belarus
yada yada yada
Democracy NOW!! {with or without Amy Goodman}
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
@SD, Maybe then somebody can make the new more positive version of the old “Who’s Next” song I hope…
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
@Jack ::
OMG that’s great! Hadn’t seen it before …
[Reply]
# 12 February 2011 at 6:33 am

Beware What You Wish For said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don’t.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
@Beware What You Wish For ::
… spake Hamlet :: as he did but limply die.
[Reply]
# 12 February 2011 at 9:59 am

Jack said:
So THAT’S where that black swan is. I’d been looking all about for it!
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@Jack ::
For some reason they are so hard to find.
[Reply]
# 12 February 2011 at 1:53 pm

Ross Jeffries said:
Uh…when Pakistan falls to an Islamist junta led by the jihadists that have infiltrated the ISI and the Pak military, what happens to their 100 plus nuclear weapons?
Ooops….
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@Ross Jeffries ::
Yep.
That’s the scary one … and it’s a great reason to push for Global Zero …
http://www.globalzero.org/
No more fucking nukes. We’re obviously ALL too stupid and bad at government to trust ourselves.
[Reply]

Chef Rimsey Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@Ross Jeffries, Well, I guess you enjoy your barbecue.
  0
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
February 12th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
@Chef Rimsey, hmm…I’m sensing a theme here…
“There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie”
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 12 February 2011 at 3:24 pm

Dave said:
I’m not so sure. The uncertainty of whether the Muslim Brotherhood (same jerks who bring us Ayman al Zawahiri) is manipulating this whole thing makes me pause.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali provides some perspective: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/opinion/04iht-edali04.html?_r=2&ref=egypt
Mubarak is a prick – no doubt, and he needed to go. I just hope all those revolutionaries have a plan for good governance, otherwise I am afraid we’ll see a civil war and continued unrest in another Middle East country for years to come. The absolutely last thing the region needs is another fundamentalist government in power, vying with Saudi Arabia and Iran to see who can do the most stupid.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
February 13th, 2011 at 6:06 am
@Dave, well said. I am cautious as well. I also am adopting a “wait and see” approach (especially the region and its history and its people). It is certainly going to be “interesting” watching the situation unfold as time goes on.
  +3
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
February 13th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@Dave, @Chris, Count me as another who is cautious. I want to be cautiously optimistic, and I recognize the historic significance of this event and all that, but I just don’t feel the same kind of optimism I felt when, say, the Berlin Wall fell. This is, after all, the Middle East. I’m very nervous about the prospect of a fundie government stepping in. And by saying this I’m not being snarky, as one tweeting Egyptian national suggested the other day. He wasn’t directing his remark to me specifically; it seemed to be targeted to all Americans who were expressing something besides unabashed jubilation. He suggested that we in the US of A have a real deficit of belief in the human spirit, or something to that effect — all by way of urging us to just go with the celebratory flow.
I certainly don’t agree with @BewareWhatYouWishFor above, who expressed the opinion that the devil you know is better than the one you don’t. Mubarak was a devil who deserved ousting. And I don’t think the protesters were wrong for leading Egypt into the Great Unknown — as SD said, NOT TYRANNY is better than TYRANNY, and somebody had to do something. But I don’t think I’m being Glenn Beck-ish or whiny for pointing out (once again) that this is, after all, the Middle East.
Still, I’m rooting for those people in the streets of Cairo, and I wish them the best.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 5:30 am
@Cosmic Connie, I think you are being very realistic Connie. I guess it is better for these forces and passions to be unleashed and for people to witness life under the promised “utopia”. Maybe they will experience how the rhetoric is so far from reality just like in the Former Soviet Union and other failed utopias, like Iran. Large segments of the Iranian population have tasted the “utopia” and they want change. Sometimes people have to be bitten by the experience (drugs etc) before they understand what is good for them and what is not.
Btw Glenn Beck is not that bad. He is a bit childish and silly and even dramatic, but some of what he says (US debt, George Soros) is actually real and observable.
  -1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 15th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@Chris ::
… and “some of what he says” {repeatedly} is observably false.
Nothing wrong with being wrong :: but liars are liars.
Just as a recent 4instance …
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/business/media/22beck.html
… give me a fucking break.
[Reply]

Chris Reply:
February 15th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
@SD, Granted. He can exaggerate, but he is bang on about George Soros and his danger to America. A weak America is no good for the West.
  0
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 13th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@Dave ::
You could argue :: and I would and am :: that dictatorships and oppression brought us Ayman al Zawahiri :: not the Muslim Brotherhood. Plus :: he left that group … and they have long claimed to be non-violent. Is it appropriate for cultural outsiders to demand more than non-violence?
Chaos and civil war are horrid … but they’re orders of magnitude better than dictatorships.
If you can’t say what you think … then go die in the streets right now because your life is worthless. Free speech :: free press :: right to vote … for everyone on earth. Then we’ll see what’s what with these fucking terrorists.
I’m a big fan of Ms. Ali :: and she has many good reasons to have her quills up :: but I think/hope she’s wrong. And her analysis completely ignores the Internet … which is not to be ignored.
@Connie ::
I think it’s much more exciting than the Berlin Wall :: specifically because it’s the Middle East. Non-violent overthrow of a dictatorship in the Middle East’s most important country. That’s totally epic no matter what follows. And whatever bad shit does follow … for at least a decade … can still totally be blamed on Mubarak and his henchmen thugs.
If they end up with a fairly elected fundamentalist government … then that is what they are … and that is what they should have. It should be allowed to express itself … and fail horribly … like any other bad idea.
That’s not going to happen though … cause Egypt is too big and sophisticated … and cause I demand it.
[Reply]

Dave Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 12:41 am
@SD, I would and I do argue against the idea that dictatorships and oppression brought us al Zawahiri. He is brought to us by a fundamentalist religion that seeks to impose its will, by any means possible, on the rest of the world. Believing that just because Zawahiri says he “left” the Muslim Brotherhood doesn’t make it so. These folks are masters at political expediency. They have also learned to be masters at manipulating the Western media and getting the message out that they know we want to hear. That is the Ayaan’s message also, and is also a topic well discussed by Ahmed Rashid.
I hope you are right about the internet (more specifically the availability of information) providing the key to avoiding more and different oppression. On the other hand, I see how countries like Pakistan, UAE, and Afghanistan simply block access to many of the sites where information is available, and I realize it is still way to easy for even “non-violent” governments to prevent the flow if information that really brings freedom.
I will also tell you that in many of these countries, freedom of speech is a pipe dream – they will never allow anyone to speak ill of the Koran or the Prophet, and the “peaceful” Muslim Brotherhood will be no different. Until a truly secular, religion and government separated, open rule of law, democracy is established in the Middle East, it will be business as usual, just a different face doing the business.
I do hope the Egyptians are able to establish such a government, then, maybe then, the other dominoes will start to fall.
The issue I have with your last statement is that we have seen what happens when a fundamentalist government takes over a country (or tries to) that’s why I am where I am today. The idea that “It should be allowed to express itself … and fail horribly … like any other bad idea.” does not begin to consider the mass human suffering that will occur in the process. I don’t have an answer, don’t think I do, but I’m not sure that’s a real good idea in itself.
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 1:43 am
@Dave ::
The idea that “It should be allowed to express itself … and fail horribly … like any other bad idea.” does not begin to consider the mass human suffering that will occur in the process. I don’t have an answer, don’t think I do, but I’m not sure that’s a real good idea in itself.
My point applies only to “fundamentalists” elected through a free and fair process … who know they will soon face another free and fair process in which their actions will be judged {imperfectly} by the people.
That structure has a long history of moderating crazy people.
I will also tell you that in many of these countries, freedom of speech is a pipe dream – they will never allow anyone to speak ill of the Koran or the Prophet, and the “peaceful” Muslim Brotherhood will be no different.
That’s advanced free speech … this is free speech 101. Like :: “hey … you can’t just rape me” … or “it was wrong for the police to kill my son”.
Baby steps.
You still can’t say fuck on TV in America … nor can you view Al Jazeera English … or follow @SaltyDroid on Twitter. No country has completed the journey to free speech.
I’m sorry that @VOR agreed with you … I won’t hold it against you.
[Reply]

Dave Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 3:01 am
@SD, Ouch!
  +5
[Reply]

Dave Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 3:04 am
VOR – that doesn’t mean we’re going to take warm showers together in the wee hours of the morning either…
WINNER!! ::   +7

Chris Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 5:33 am
@Dave, I agree with you there. Can’t add to what you have said.
  +1
[Reply]
# 13 February 2011 at 3:37 am

the voice of reason said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Stick to whining about shady internet marketers, cuz you sound even more ridiculous than usual when you venture into the world of politics. Yeah…sure…democracy…great news. We’ll see how great it is when the Muslim Brotherhood and the anti-Americans (not to mention antisemites) make their move. Oh wait, you probably lapped up the fucking idiocy about the muslim brotherhood terrorist organization is just peace loving (as in “Islam is the religion of Peace,” I guess).
I’d bitch slap you with facts till you curl up and weep under the stairs in your parent’s basement, but, shit stain coward, I see you have taken to outright deleting my posts.
You’re a ridiculous ass clown coward loser, Salty. You do know that, right? Yeah…you do. Deleting this post won’t wash that fact from your mind, loser. But hey, fuckstain, hit the little delete button so your minion lap dogs don’t see you were just schooled yet again.
LOSER!! ::   -11
[Reply]

what?? Reply:
February 13th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
@the voice of reason,
Obsessed with fake robots much? Did he refuse to take you to the prom?
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Dave Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 12:13 am
@the voice of reason, Oh FFS, quit yer bitchin’ VOR. This is about discussion and the sharing of ideas and opinions.
Clearly SD and I don’t agree this is all roses – that’s fine, I’m not going to call him names and whine about it. IIWI, get over it. If you can’t discuss topics like an adult, then SD has every right to delete your sophomoric rants. After all, the Blog space does have his name on it – not yours.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 1:47 am
@the voice of reason ::
I deleted your other long ass comment twerp …
One comment per post :: one identity. Why don’t you try being a good troll like @PoopChute and adjust to your new constraints? It could be the beginning of a whole new and better you!
[Reply]
# 13 February 2011 at 6:41 pm

Hal (the original Hal) said:
Not to rain on the parade here (because standing up against tyranny is always inspiring) … but has military rule following authoritarian rule ever transitioned to democracy?
As I read the comments here, many seem to be seeing the events in Egypt only through the eyes of someone who was brought up in our society.
I’ve talked to people from the Middle East and the one thing that truly annoys them all is the West’s arrogance in trying to impose our way of thinking on them.
It will NEVER happen.
We can feel all warm and fuzzy about it, but we (the West) are perceived by them as weak, immoral and easy duped. Actually I’d have to agree with them on that.
Many of us just don’t get (or refuse to admit) the polar opposites in cultural thinking between the West and the Middle East.
Freedom from a dictatorship for Egyptians will simply lead to greater “freedom” under Shariah law and true Islam, not some U S of A rah rah star spangled pyramid Utopia.
Mahmoud al-Zahar, the leader of Hamas (an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood) in the Gaza strip gets it though. Check out his interview on the BBC.
Maybe we could all send him Valentines so he’d change his mind and see it our way … hugs, kisses … warm and fuzzies … love you peaceful Islam.
  +3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 6:41 pm
@Hal (the original Hal) ::
Not to rain on the parade here (because standing up against tyranny is always inspiring) … but has military rule following authoritarian rule ever transitioned to democracy?
Had Internet enabled citizens ever overthrown the Egyptian government before?
[Reply]
# 14 February 2011 at 8:39 am

RobFromGa said:
The “slogan” of the Muslim Brotherhood…
Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. [The] Quran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
@RobFromGa ::
“But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies.”
~ Sarah Palin
It’s not fair to judge the whole pie based on its stupidest slice.
[Reply]

Hal (the original Hal) Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
@SD,
Have you been possessed by Bill Maher? :)
Palin meant south and said north. Yes, it’s quite a funny gaffe but hardly a fair analogy.
If the North Korean comment was official Republican Party dogma then you’d be on to something.
  -1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 7:25 pm
@Hal (the original Hal) ::
Palin meant south and said north.
No she didn’t. She’s stupid … and staggeringly ignorant and uninformed. She’s not qualified to teach the third grade. Holding her out as what America is all about … or even what the Republicans are all about … ain’t fair. She’s just a freak screaming … cause freaks got the right to scream.
A broad swath of Egyptian society was on the streets … the Brotherhood’s flaws and slogans are just a slice of the whole.
[Reply]

Hal (the original Hal) Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
@SD,
The Ikhwan (i.e. Muslim Brotherhood) are the oldest and biggest Islamist organization in Egypt and were a key driving force behind the public opposition.
Trivializing their flaws and slogans won’t lessen their impact on shaping Egypt’s political future.
They’re anything but Islamic Care Bears.
  +2
[Reply]
# 14 February 2011 at 11:22 am

Cosmic Connie said:
Well, getting back to the usual theme of this blog, I’ve been wondering how long it will be before various New-Wage hucksters and McSpirituality “leaders” begin claiming credit for the big breakthrough in Egypt.
F’rinstance, I can easily imagine the late Maharishi’s massive and oppressive TM org claiming that this new wave of “freedom” in the Middle East is the result of the Maharishi Effect. I can also imagine the TM org’s cheap imitation, Mr. Fire’s Attract Miracles Community, claiming that their “group intentions” had something to do with it.
Or perhaps that whacked-out cultish org, Access “Consciousness,” will imply that their practice of asking, “How does it get any better than this?” opened up a new universe of possibilities on the streets of Cairo. Then there are always the Church of Scientology, and India’s Oneness University, filthy-rich orgs that also love to take credit when things seem to be going well on the geopolitical front.
And I’m sure Tony Robbins will have some kind of Egyptian Freedom special going on before too long.
Beyond that, there are probably hundreds of wannabes — everyone from intuitive “healers” to woo-spouting Cairopractors (sorry, couldn’t resist) — who will introduce whole new frauduct lines with an Egypt theme. Who knows, there could be a revival of Pyramid Power. Or maybe the same folks who brought us the blind Russian Wish Dolly and Psychic Demand can introduce a downloadable printout of a Magickal Sphinx that, in conjunction with the accompanying clearing audio, will create freedom from our own inner tyrants. (If so, I get royalties, Pat!)
Let the eye-rolling begin…
  +2
[Reply]
# 14 February 2011 at 12:25 pm

Salter said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Eben Pagan is probably and indigo adult, he’s changing the world for the better and will be even more famous soon.
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

Clark Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
@Salter, SD is helping to make him “famous.” But yeah, maybe the government will make him “famous.”
  +2
[Reply]
# 14 February 2011 at 1:58 pm

Dr CPU said:
@SD
No rational person would deny that democracy of some sort would be a good thing as compared to what exists today in many countries.
You do the Muslim extremists a disservice however in thinking that the muslim brotherhood is non violent, this group was linked with the assassination of Sadat and funding of other groups which favor non peaceful revolution.
These groups would kill you if they can, they use their religion as both a shield and an excuse to justify methods and results. I have been to some of these places in the middle east and seen it in person, I wish it were not so but at least for the foreseeable future that’s the way it is.
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 14th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
@Dr CPU ::
“You do the Muslim extremists a disservice however in thinking that the muslim brotherhood is non violent, this group was linked with the assassination of Sadat and funding of other groups which favor non peaceful revolution.”
I don’t think they are non-violent … I don’t know that much about them. But they definitely say they are non-violent … I’m willing to buy that until they start blowing shit up. Their actions during the protests gave me reason to hope. Shit changes … humans evolve … the Sadat assassination was 30 years ago.
“These groups would kill you if they can …”
Well … they’ll have to step to the back of the line.
[Reply]

RobFromGa Reply:
February 23rd, 2011 at 6:31 am
@SD,
Does this video of 2 million Egyptians chanting
“To Jerusalem we are heading, Martyrs in the millions.”
Disturb you?
  +1
[Reply]
# 14 February 2011 at 6:13 pm

Ross Jeffries said:
@Salty
A different perspective from Stratfor.com.
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110213-egypt-distance-between-enthusiasm-and-reality
  0
[Reply]
# 15 February 2011 at 5:04 pm

Mathias said:
If these countries learn something from crazy-spending democracies, (that is us) They might not have to experience the boom-bust freakshow cycle
That’s up to the egypt youngsters.
I think they should have some skepticism towards our ways of doing things, so that new dimension might be added to the system democracy.
They could show new ways of doing it.
  0
[Reply]
# 17 February 2011 at 12:29 pm

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