Tellman Knudson :: Running for Cover

two-tacky-tellmans

Run Tellman Run :: at the mouth :: constantly run at the fucking mouth.  Tellman Knudson has been unable to stop running his yapper for YEARS.  He could run his ignorant mouth incessantly for 3 months :: without ever taking a breath … or saying a goddamn thing.  It’s a gift really :: like being born with a tail.

Recently Tellman decided that running at the legs was probably just as easy as running at the mouth.  He announced :: with much fake fan fare :: that he’d be running across the country {BareFoot like Carrie Bilkerson}.  Fake Forrest Gump was to run a Marthon a day from New York to Los Angles in order to raise $100 Million dollars for youth homelessness.  Holy fucking Moses :: $100 million is kind of a lot of money :: where did he get that figure?  Well the short answer is that he pulled it from his ass :: but the long answer is that he pulled it from his ass.

Tellman lives in Brattleboro Vermont :: where he grows out the hair on his face and the sides of his head to try and forget about how it stopped growing on the top.  Recently his Run Tellman Run project received some coverage in the local newspaper.  All press is good press … oh except that Kevin O’Connor of the Rutland Herald {we are vermont!} mercilessly pwns balding pimp of filth Tellman Knudson.

Read it –> Vermont man’s barefoot trek runs into trouble.

“But after spending four months and $500,000 in road expenses to reach West Virginia, Knudson has returned to his Vermont home to “regroup.” He’s now facing questions about why his charity says it’s an officially registered nonprofit even though its name doesn’t appear on the Internal Revenue Service’s list of recognized organizations.

The 33-year-old Brattleboro resident and self-described millionaire Internet marketer made big promises Sept. 9 when he took off his shoes and began to trot westward toward a finish line more than 3,000 miles away.

“Look for me on the cover of Guinness Book 2011,” Knudson wrote on his fundraising Website

At the time, the Vermont attorney general’s Consumer Assistance Program had received complaints about Knudson’s marketing business, and the word “scam” was showing up as a popular search when you Googled his name. Nevertheless, most reporters simply have parroted the runner’s press releases in print or on air.

Off camera, however, Knudson wasn’t running his promised 26 miles a day. He didn’t hit that goal until Oct. 25, his Web site reports, then dropped to seven miles on Oct. 26, three miles on Oct. 27 and no miles on Oct. 28, when he took one of several multiday breaks because of problematic weather or persistent foot injuries.”

Here is one of those press releases :: Tellman Knudson Meets President Clinton – No Shoes Necessary.  Just a small taste of the genius …

“If you knew Knudson’s backstory, the idea of barefooting across a continent to raise such a vast sum of money wouldn’t seem so incredible. He was born with femoral antiversion, a bone deformity that left his feet pointing 45 degrees inward. He could barely walk without stumbling and doctors said they would have to purposely break his legs and conform them in casts for six months.”

Yep!  It’s all making sense for me now.

At the beginning of the promotion :: all of the proceeds from Run BaldMan Run were said to be headed for Richard Branson’s charity Virgin Unite.

“Virgin Unite reaped about $250,000 in donations credited to Knudson,  www.virginunite.com reports. According to the runner, most of that money came from two Internet businesses, geniusnetwork.com (run by Piranha Marketing Inc. of Tempe, Ariz.) and Maverick Business Adventures (a Web company with an “invitation-only membership exclusively for successful entrepreneurs, CEOs and business owners who want to live life to the fullest”).”

Well isn’t that interesting :: so the “master””mind” groups of Yanic Silver and Joe Polish put up the initial money?  It gets posted to Virgin Unite’s website where donations can be tracked.  How about a video with Sir Richard?  Sure thing …

That’s all very legitimizing. But then when the bald running and the fund raising actually start :: the donation button is switched over to Fake Forrest’s own charity Tellman.org.  How convenient.  Funny story …

But neither IRS officials nor the www.irs.gov “Search for Charities” link reports any record of Tellman.org as a registered charity.

Knudson, in a phone interview, said that’s because his organization took over the nonprofit status of The Children’s Horizon Foundation of Texas, started by a businessman named Richard Sapio.

I said, ‘How can I get a nonprofit set up and going before the run started?'” Knudson recounted. “He said he already had a completely legal nonprofit set up and didn’t do anything with it.”

Knudson said he would provide a copy of the IRS transfer papers. Instead, this newspaper received a call the next day from his lawyer, Mary Parent, an associate with Downs Rachlin Martin in St. Johnsbury …

“It’s totally transparent, and everything was done above board and in compliance with the law,” Parent said. “Tellman.org is the same organization as The Children’s Horizon Foundation. The Children’s Horizon Foundation has simply changed its name and state of organization. There’s no requirement for the IRS to sign off on this – as long as the purpose is aligned, that’s fine.”

The IRS disagrees. It confirms the tax-exempt status of The Children’s Horizon Foundation, with headquarters listed in Dallas. But while it wouldn’t specifically address Tellman.org because of privacy and disclosure laws, it said organizations couldn’t decide for themselves how to transfer official nonprofit approval.

No they certainly can not.  And a fun fact about Richard Sapio …

According to U.S. Department of Justice records, a Richard A. Sapio of Dallas was accused in 2003 of securities-related fraud and in 2004 of conspiracy to commit securities fraud, wire fraud and mail fraud – although the government dropped its pursuit of the charges in 2008.

Sounds great … he should sell an e-book about it.

So how successful has Tellman been raising money for his own dubious charity?

Asked for the run’s fundraising total, Knudson replied: “I don’t know the number off the top of my head. I am an entrepreneur. I do not keep track of my books. I do things for the world.”

Ha ha!  Classic d-bag stuff right there … because in the unicorn version of entrepreneurship :: Peter Fucking Pan keeps the books while the biz owner dances around in the moonlight with fairies sipping absinthe and snorting adderall.

But from this video it sounds like they’ve only raised $10,000 so far …

So according to his own reports :: Fake Forrest Gimp has spent $500,000 on self aggrandizing self promotion :: and given just $10,000 to kids in need :: all the while using the charity as an angle to try and sell his garbage to the unwitting.

Read the article for much other goodness :: but let’s go out on a low note.  Tellman :: clearly a “man” with charity in his heart …

Asked if he regretted spending $500,000 on road expenses rather than donating it to homeless teens, he replied: “A half a million won’t make a difference – it won’t save a whole lot of dying kids.”

>> bleep bleep

166 thoughts on “Tellman Knudson :: Running for Cover”

  1. Read his press release about ‘overcoming adversity’

    Isn’t it weird how these guys always say something like: “I was in a rough patch..a total failure..multiple failed businesses…so I decided to teach success in business!!!…and now I’m a success in business!”

    What I find really odd is that if you go to virginunite.com/runtellmanrun, you can still donate. I assume money donated through their site goes directly to them, but are they aware of the broader bait-and-switch that went on? And all the subsequent ‘donations’ that ensured he could have a bidet in his portable bathroom? If so, it’s odd they still associate with him.

  2. Boy, I learn something new every day at Droid’s blog. Tellman’s tale seems to be yet another example of Conspicuous Altruism at work. Not to name names, but I’ve noticed that homelessness seems to be a popular cause with some of the Conspicuously Altruistic.

  3. How timely, Droid!!

    I was thinking of asking you to look into Tellman’s business partner Shawn Casey. It appears birds of a feather flock together. Seems in the mid 2000s Shawn was getting people to pony up $8K for turn-key internet marketing training and (surprise!!) not delivering. Just search for shawn casey scam and you’ll see what I am talking about.

    Apparently Shawn and Tellman were hosting teleseminars together in order to drum up business. Supposedly, Casey mentored Tellman. In these calls, Casey claimed he made $10M/yr and Tellman $3M/yr.

    No, I was not taken by their schemes. The only thing I ever received from Tellman was a free (WORTHLESS) CD featuring a worthless recorded teleseminar. Oh yeah, and a whole slew of daily spammy email from him.

    1. The Sean Casey post could potentially be interesting in that he is an attorney… or as my workout buddy says in his southern accent, “he’s a liar… what? a liar… oh a lawyer.”

      1. @Watching The Train Wreck: Hahaha!

        Reminds of a story from the 90’s. The post office put out a stamp series featuring famous lawyers. They ended up recalling the stamps because people were getting confused on which side to spit on.

        Baa-Rump-Bump!

    2. I would LOVE the Droid to expose that POS Casey. Pretty sad when the first suggestion after typing “Shawn Casey” into Google is “scam”.

      Yea, he’s a lawyer which he throws around to try and legitimatize what he does. I sat beside him at a dinner back in 2004 and wanted to take a shower afterwards. Not hard to figure out he’s a slimeball.

      Casey also appeared on several of Jeff Paul’s “Shortcuts to Internet Millions” infomercials which the FTC hit. He was telling his “I was nothing until I took this course” story, when he’d made money long before Paul’s product was introduced. Shawn also got one of his clients on the commercial, who was seen saying that after Paul’s program he’s making “up to 100k a week”! I know the guy and he didn’t make 100K a year.

      1. Jack B Nimble:

        In all fairness to Shawn — he always stated, in the Jeff Paul infomercials, that he’s made millions “using the same strategies taught in Jeff Paul’s Underpanty Bajillions” course or whatever. He very carefully, very cautiously, extremely lawyer-ishly avoids saying directly that he used the course to do it or that he even looked at the course other than a glance.

        I’m not familiar with that course but I am familiar with other Jeff Paul courses (his infomercial stuff is all pretty laughable but he put out some very good copy writing stuff earlier), I’d have to agree Shawn indeed used the “same principles taught” by Paul. Not even necessarily from the same course…but a course somewhere. Shady to be sure. Just like the infomercial junk Paul put out.

        May I propose another possible scenario, realizing that nothing is all black and white in any situation?

        Perhaps, in some cases, it’s not pure evil or a darkly hidden plot pulling the strings on everything. I’ve seen it myself many times in others…someone comes up with a cool idea or new concept in online marketing that really hits it big. Their success story spirals upward through the ranks until they start really raking in serious dough.

        And they’ve had it hammered into their heads that only money makes success and to keep building and bringing in more, to signal to the world that you’re on top and growing, you need offices and staff.

        Soon Bob Overnight has 30 people he’s paying and rent and utilities and other expenses … he’s got HUGE OVERHEAD and, eventually, the big hit peters out.

        Now Bob Overnight doesn’t want to have to change his name to Bob Onewonder. Oh no! He wants to keep his staff and cars and bling he’s become used to over such a short period of time. But he needs $100,000 or more a month just to keep the lights on!

        No time to worry about quality — he needs another hit…fast. So the dirty tricks and quickie jv deals with the circle start coming more and more into play, necessary to continuing to feed the beast.

        Sound familiar? I’m not saying this is true in all cases. There is always danger in too much generalization. It does fit in a lot of cases.

        Think carefully as you grow a business. It is an extension of you. Serve your prospects well. Overdeliver value for whatever they pay and your following will grow and serve you to help it grow even more. You can build it as large as you want to, if you’re willing to actually work. And it will grow as large as you want it to grow, but only if you continue to work hard, devote your time and energy and caring to your clients and customers, and just treat them as you would like to be treated.

        That last line’s kind of where I think ol’ Salty is heading with some of the strategies I’m seeing here. Using the same tools of evil the evil-doers use to pull their tricks, but turning those tools on the evil-doers.

        There’s a lot of crafty persuasion going on here, brilliantly executed, I believe, in making that very point.

        Of course — NONE of the above excuses the actions. Or even attempts to allude to the notion there are not outright evil crap-sucking a-holes working the IM industry.

  4. Wow. This goes right along with the discussions on Beyond Growth regarding the myths surrounding the 4 minute mile.

    I wonder what kind of guy “believes” he can run 26.2 miles per day, then ends up only running 3, then zero? Seems like “belief” alone didn’t get him too far.

    SD – Where do you find these winners? Makes me feel good to be a hating loser with no life.

    1. Dean Karnazes ran 50 marathons in 50 states in 50 days a couple of years ago. However, unlike Kuh-nood-son, Karno was a well trained distance runner before he attempted the stunt. Here’s his website:

      http://www.ultramarathonman.com/

      If Karno said he wanted to try this stunt, I’m sure he would’ve succeeded at both raising the money and completing the distance. I’m sure he would’ve spent much less than the $500k that Tellman says he spent too.

      1. Yeah Dean is legit.

        But for Tellman to think he was going to run a marathon a day… come on… total B.S.

        I think that 90% of charities are BS anyways. I have become very skeptical. I think that 90% gets passed through the beuracracy (sp?) and maybe a dime for every dollar gets put to halfway good use.

        When charities can put all of their marketing efforts in the education column as long as their is even an almost hidden education message on the marketing piece seems dirty to me.

    2. Interesting timing for me too. Just saw something with Mr. Knudson’s name on it today and I was about to do some research when lo and behold! The Droid beat me to it.

      Sounds like Mr. Knudson may not have properly trained for such an amazing, uh, “feet.” Perhaps this is another de-feet for the power of The Secret?

    3. Most people can’t run such long distances without rest in between runs. I have a friend who runs 40+ miles every single week. He is married, has a job, etc., so can’t be running for hours every day.

      Anyway, even he suffers from over-use injuries on a fairly regular basis. And he’s a really fit, athletic guy.

      1. 40+ miles a week is not much.

        I easily run 30+ a week on only 4 days.

        Elite runners push 100 miles a week.

  5. Okay, so… I read his post about “regrouping,” and here’s what this looks like:

    If I donate, it doesn’t go to help “homeless teens” at all. It all goes to pay for the expenses of Tellman’s stunt.

    Am I missing something?

    1. You’re just missing the fact that you are the only commenter on this blog who consistently defends the douche bag position. Which one of them are you?

      1. Sorry, Blah — Unicorn Army might have offended your sensibilities in the past but I saw nothing positive about the topic in Unicorn’s comment you replied to.

        1. Wrong – “Unicorn Army” is ACTUALLY questioning the Droid’s take on this. Go reread the comment. It’s very SLY.

          He says: “If I donate, it doesn’t go to help “homeless teens” at all. It all goes to pay for the expenses of Tellman’s stunt.”

          That’s against the post – DEFENDING Tellman.

          Then he says, “Am I missing something?”

          That’s just snark, intended to conceal what he’s doing, which is, again, defending Tellman here.

          He’s trying to imply that Tellman ISN’T doing anything wrong.

          “Unicorn” has used the same type of insidious questions elsewhere on this blog to defend OTHER douchebags. He has also attacked anti-douchebag commenters. What do you think his agenda really is?

          Based on your comment, it seems to be working for him.

        2. “He’s trying to imply that Tellman ISN’T doing anything wrong.”

          @Blah I did not get that implication either. But what is the power in the defense if what your saying is so cryptic and sly that nobody knows what the hell you are actually implying?

        3. @Blah, your reading comprehension is extremely weak.

          Let me make it real clear:

          It appears that Tellman is not raising money for homeless teens, as claimed – and is only raising money to fund his attention-getting stunt.

          That sounds pretty damned “wrong” to me.

          That’s why I said: “If I donate, it doesn’t go to help ‘homeless teens’ at all. It all goes to pay for the expenses of Tellman’s stunt.”

          How in the hell you can misunderstand that, I have no idea.

          I do have a preference for facts and research – vs. speculation and fabrication, that’s true.

          When Markus Allen said he could prove Tellman wasn’t even running because he failed to run through Markus’ little hometown, I did point out that Tellman’s route went nowhere near that town.

          Pretty clearly – Tellman was running, certainly not at the insane rate of a marathon a day. Also pretty clearly, Tellman’s run is more about making Tellman look good, than about actually doing any good for homeless teens.

          Whether Tellman “means well” or not… I think if you read that whole article, which talks about his marketing practices, it’s not hard to figure out the answer.

        4. Sorry, Blah — I believe Watching the Trainwreck got what I was saying…that comment that you replied to was most definitely not perceived by me as positive in favor of the dirtbags. If it was meant to be or there is a pattern of this, then the commenter is displaying some sad writing skills. Or lack of writing skills altogether.

          Who in his right mind could imply that “oh — it’s ok if it doesn’t ACTUALLY get put into my charity … if I don’t put it there I’ll just use it to cover the expenses of my $500,000 run.” as anything but the obvious ooozy cheese that it is?

          Trainwreck nailed it — if a statement causes this much confusion without going back and re-reading 1,208 hours of past comments on the blog…it ain’t clear enough to warrant comment in the future.

          Duly noted.

        5. OK, Unicorn…now I can sleep better. I thought I read that correctly the first time. In which case, it probably could have been edited for clarity but…it was crystal clear to me.

          We all need to keep things from rising to hysteria or this will all just degrade down to a pile of useless conspiracy theory no one takes seriously at all.

          You can’t equate success or money or even a lavish lifestyle as instant verification someone is bad. Selling marketing and business information is not a bad thing. And, I don’t know about you but, if I was to buy business or marketing information, I would much rather get it from someone who has done it and knows what he/she is doing than from someone who just started copying other people’s crap yesterday.

          Believe it or not there are people in the world who are amazingly talented at marketing and business who will share what they know for a price…but it’s not a scam. And they are rare. They either made it…then moved to teaching how they did it. Or they still do it and added trainings as an additional revenue stream to their business.

          If the person you follow was a nothing but rose up from that and made millions in a short time — he or she might be worth following. But, if they did it teaching “business success,” think again for crying out loud. Unless, of course, it’s your goal to make it teaching business success. Then maybe…

          Again — deliver QUALITY and VALUE and exercise transparency in your marketing and you will prosper online or offline. Period.

          When it comes to marketing, Bowflex and Coors do the same damned thing. Bowflex shows you how you can build your body in 20 minutes a day, three times a week while someone who works out about 8 hours every day is working the machine, to imply that will be you in just six weeks. Coors implies you can pop open a six pack on the beach and have an instant party with bikini-clad babes all over the place dancing around as soon as you do.

          But — both of these products are of decent enough quality (well…questionable on the Coors but that’s a matter of taste). You do get something of value for the money.

          This is the big difference. This and the level of deception that the IM dirtbags will take their marketing to.

        6. I come at this from a perspective of an “outside insider.”

          Some of the people who have been targets of Salty’s wrath do deliver high quality and value – but I’d say that is the least of his concerns. He’s (usually) not attacking the quality of the content.

          What he’s after – and I hope we would ALL be after – is deceptive and predatory marketing practices, attempts to stifle (his and others) free speech, and just plain outright evil.

          What bothers me about this site, sometimes, is that the attacks are not always grounded in fact. People tend to “pile on” with speculation, and people with an axe to grind can make an anonymous claim which is accepted as fact by others.

          Perry Belcher sold fake medicine to sick people – he plead guilty to it – isn’t that enough? No need to make stuff up – the truth is plenty.

          According to the extremely well researched news story Salty linked to in his post, Tellman Knudson was selling a $7.95 audio CD, with a sales letter that said the product was “guaranteed to stuff six-figures into your bank account in the next year.”

          Hidden in the fine print: $97/month forced continuity billing and a disclaimer that (in spite of the big-print guarantee above) there is no guarantee.

          Those are facts – and they ought to be enough, no? The truth should be plenty.

          But if we sit here long enough….

          Some affiliate who screwed up their affiliate link (watch out for AWeber kids – it likes to append a %20 on URLs, and then you aren’t getting paid) when they mailed to his evil offer will show up… and say that Tellman screwed them out of their commissions.

          Which is very unlikely to be true – even the most evil marketer knows better than to screw their affiliates.

          I know of no one in this business who deliberately attempts to short change affiliates – although many allow affiliates to offer bonuses and other incentives, which the “little guys” have trouble competing against. Many of them do webinars and other special events with “super affiliates” which make it more likely that people will buy through that person’s link.

          Then, someone who tried to get Tellman to promote *their* piece of crap offer (“I emailed him 3 times and he never even answered!”) will say that he’s part of an insidious conspiracy to prevent anyone who’s not part of the conspiracy from selling anything ever.

          Now, for all I know he could be part of a giant conspiracy (okay, that’s an oxymoron, maybe a small conspiracy) – but it’s far more likely that he wouldn’t promote their offer because he didn’t think he’d make enough money on it.

          When plain old incompetence or stupidity will explain it – when that’s in fact the more simple explanation, then that’s probably all there is to it. Failing that – these guys are in business to make money, by itself, that’s not a crime.

      2. @Unicorn Army: Ok, you’ve clearly indicated you weren’t being apologetic or playing devil’s advocate for the DBs. I’m happy to be wrong. I’ve since expunged all such notations from your records. Carry on. :)

  6. Now you are getting to close the real center of gravity of the syndicate. You are getting close to the puppet master. Impressed.

    1. Who is the puppet master? Is there one guy running the show?

      Seems like you come from within this community, but no longer wish to be part of it… so why not drop the name here on a comment.

      Or will it be more exciting when the droid drops a missle on the puppet master out of the blue… figuratively speaking.

      1. There is no puppet master. There are info product marketers who coordinate and cooperate when it comes to launches. Some mentor aspiring marketers. Others use them and toss them aside when they no longer serve a purpose.

        Never assume bad intent when stupidity will suffice. When you take a look at the backgrounds of many of the marketers getting in trouble, they are not rocket scientists. They’re what you typically see as a “success” story in MLM companies. And there is overlap between the two. There are few major info product marketers who don’t also participate in various MLM companies.

        It is also common for well-known info product marketers to be on each others’ MLM downlines in multiple network marketing companies.

        1. Yeah my view as an outsider to this whole thing was that it is not as coordinated and master minded as @mikefilsaimeinsider makes it appear.

          But what do I know. I am just here as a minor to diversion to work :)

        2. WRONG. Eben pagan is the puppet master and Frank Kern chimes in as well. I have been able to listen in on some of the calls and Eben obviously needs to be hugged more because he tries to dominate and manipulate the group. Some even complain to each other about it.
          It’s really a sad situation when you listen from the outside. It’s like little kids trying to make believe they are somebody. I kanda feel bad for them.

      2. Ok I can’t help myself and I hope the droid suffers from the same problem. I hope he is in fact tortured by it – for his own good. You see in a former life I was involved in people much more powerful than anyone the droid has mentioned yet before in the corporate world and government world. I did not like what I saw and launched attacks against it with an aliase much as the droid was doing. I’ll get back to that later.

        Then I got into the internet world. No I do not sell internet marketing products which are full of scammers and you almost certaintly have never heard of me.

        But I have gotten on the edge of the IM guru people and seen how they work and know people who have been destroyed by some of them. Or more you can say burned and churned.

        I did not like what I saw in my previous life where I literally sat at as close to the limits of power as you can get. Let me put it this way when Obama had his Presidential party those people crashed I saw a list of the guests in the newspaper and I had met two of them in the past. And no my former life has nothing to do with Obama or Democrats or Republicans this was almost 15 years now. But the same exact methods of evil at the top go on in the internet marketing world just on a smaller scale.

        Ok. You have the syndicate and that is what they call themselves. You have the people the Kern, Reese, Walker, Filaime, Pagan etc and on the little group you see emailing each other.

        Then you have the herschy and andros types that try to get in and are used by this group. Churned and given crumbs. I know someone who got into that level and burned and churned. And through that person have gotten to know a few of other seemingly big names.

        THESE PEOPLE AND THEIR SYNDICATE ARE ACTUALLY LITTLE SMALL FRIES.

        Andy Jenkins is a small fry. How did Jenkins get in this world? Well let’s see. A Mike Long made a connect with his buddy Brad. Who does Long know? Reese, Walker, Kern. Long puts them together. Stompernet is born – with the help of a rich jerk. Long seems to have gotten dissiluionsed and cashed out – more on that in a second.

        You see Brandy were just two dudes they brought in. They weren’t insiders and when Stompernet goes poop Andy has to go to San Diego to get with Kern and hope to become a bigger player. They were brought into the syndicate fold. They stayed in, mostly due to Fallon’s personality and connection he made with the puppet master and filsaime. Most who were in similar spot got burned and churned, but Fallon is smarter than most, not by iq but streetwise, and got in close with Filsaime and the puppetmaster. And charmed them. He understood the game. Probably something with having a legal background helped.

        But the Andy is still a bit player. And Fallon I don’t know I would guess he is now one fading so much.

        The puppet master level is higher than the the syndicate though. The people you see in this droids posts today are at that level. Yes Knudson is more powerful than the syndicate people are. He is not a puppet master himself though, but as on the edge of the puppet master.

        It is best I explain this in a story. You see the way the syndicate gurus burn and churn the Herchscy is the same methods that the puppet master uses on them too!

        The syndicate is an attempt to replicate his methods on as big of a scale that they can which is of course smaller, but oh it appears to be big to the modern day willie lowmans who read their emails.

        But it is the same method.

        Let me explain with a story.

        You remember the droids posts about the Eric Graham? Remember that woman who posted a testimonial and said he is a god?

        Well ask yourself this for a second who is a god in the eyes of Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, and their friends?

        One god you could say is Dan Kennedy. Is he a puppetmaster? Close.

        Another god you can say is Tony Robbins? Hmm… bigger than Kennedy.

        Who are bigger than them? Well, who put up money to help Robbins put infocommericals on TV? Follow the money at all times and you will discover the true puppetmasters.

        The story of someone being groomed. Mary Ellen Tribby is a nice woman who is a hugely successful direct marketer by anyone’s reckoning. She worked for Weiss Research which sells stock market newsletters that tell you the world is going to end and helped take that company from $8 million in sales to like $100 million in 1 2 years. She worked for agora that does like $500 million in sales.

        That is big stuff. Then she goes and becomes a partner in Early to Rise that makes $25-$30 million a year.

        Bigger stuff as she is a partner.

        These are bigger figures than these syndicate gurus that seem so big heh.

        Last year she decided to set up a new company that would be solely her own. A womans work at home mom info website.

        A special meeting was setup for someone that could put her over the top to an even higher level.

        She was so nervous before the meeting she almost broke out in hives. She almost backed out. To her this man was a god.

        This man was Richard Branson.

        If you sit back and connect the dots the person closest to Richard Branson in the Internet marketing world is Yanik Silver. And Knudson.

        When a guy gets on the peripherary of the syndciate and filsaime and fallon where do they go? They go on a business venture trip setup by Yanik Silver and most likely though I am not sure with a partnership of Branson in that business venture company. AT the least there was help starting it. You can’t get no higher up in internet marketing than yanik silver and the most powerful man you see that is close to silver is branson. Who is Silver modeling?

        There is a mthod how complete psychological control begins. There is a secret given to the person being inducted. And no it isn’t positive thinking. It is negative thinking about the masses.

        The secret is that the stories you grew up as a child are not real. There is no United States. There is no patriotism or good and bad. There is only money. This I learned in my former life.

        What I did not know until I get closer in the internet marketing world is their secret. Their secret is that the masses are not people, but humaniods. They do not call them that, but that is the best way to describe what they teach the intitiates.

        Humanids who have no will of their own but are manipulated by corporations, government, and evil. And you with possession of this secret can now manipulate the masses to give you money. If you do not someone else will just take the money from them so it might as well be you.

        Armed with this secret the initiate is now shown a promise of power and access to the lists and people who can allow them to manipulate the masses.

        Usually a little one hit wonder launch happens and if it is decided the intitate is just to be churned somehow most often the new business launched ends up being a disaster. Promises not fulfilled. Customers angry. But the inittiate played a dirty game so they deserve what they get anyway.

        You see in the end it pays at the top to just churn them and burn them, beause in that way you can have total control over the market and who comes and goes in it and who is allowed to get big. And if those that get big you can have compromising info on them you can destroy them at will too if you want so they can be kept in line at all times.

        But for the intitate it comes down to first showing them the secret.

        Watch what happens to Tribby. She is now speaking at the Yanik Silver summit. I would venture a bet she is being pulled into the world of the puppetmaster. She is a nice lady so don’t hurt her.

        Ok, some hard reality and a fear of mine for the droid.

        Watch this:

        This is a scene from the movie network. Howard Beale spoke out against the corruption of the most powerful forces in the world on TV not knowing what he was saying of course, but doing it and getting close.

        He stirred the forces of true power.

        And was called in to a meeting by Arthur Jenson.

        And Jenson intitated him into the secret.

        Dissuliousned and destryoed Mr. Beal became a convert. And he flipped and preached the message of Arthur Jenson.

        In my struggle in my former life I stirred up a hornests nest and got close to disturbing the forces of power using droid like tactics. As a result I got a phone call.

        With a disclosure of their secret and an offer to become a convert. A promise of rising up into power.

        I knew none of this. I did not know the secret. And did not know what to do.

        When all you bleieve is gone what do you do?

        You have several choices. Convert and try to mimic these forces by manipulating other people on their behalf. Or you can disappear and no longer fight and go off somewhere else. Build a life of your own create your own little world with some more goodness in it.

        This is what I did. But I still want to fight. But I cannot fight those forces I saw in my former life. But I can throw a shot or two at these forces, which are different but operating exactly the same. You get high enough you will nkow this is how power always operates and when you get to the true top of anything you will either learn this or be used. Life isn’t easy and that is the secret everyone knows.

        The droid is getting closer to not simply attacking a few scammers and low level bit players but to forces of true power behind them that I am calling by the name puppetmaster.

        It will be a fascinating battle if the droid decides to take it up. But I know if he does somehow someway one day he will receive a similar type of phone call that I did. I pray if this happens he does not convert.

        I hope the droid is in a similar life trajectory I am – seeing the brutal reality of the way powerful men use cult like methods to manitpulate and control in some real experience and see the same types of behavior at play in this internet marketing world. If the droid is driven by experiences and forces outside internemt marketing world then he should be fine because he should be a wise droid. But if not then he may not rebuff the offer that will eventually be given if he attacks true power.

        Arthur Jenson is not the face of God. He is the face of the devil. Of course he is not a real person, but I bring him up figuratively and if you can imagine an Arthur Jenson operating as puppet master above the Internet marketing gurus everyone loves so deerly then you will understand how the level beyond the syndicate operates. The syndciate is just trying to use play the same game in their smaller sandbox.

        What I do not know though is if there is in fact a level beyond even that puppetmaster level.

        We can only see so much and it is enough for people to only deal with what they can see. Hoepfully I have shown you another level you never knew of. And it must end somewhere both the limits of power and your own fight.

        I do not know for sure but I suspect the Mike Long saw glimpses of all of this and cashed out. What I knew was you can never be satisfied and happy trying to play power games. The higher you go the more psychotic they are.

        1. was trying to copy and paste this movie, but didn’t stick:

          httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzSj1yNZdY8

        2. @mikefilsaimeinsider

          That was what I was looking for. Looking forward to the droids response.

          … who called you and what did they say? Curiosity is killing this cat.

        3. @mikefilsaimeinder You’re kidding, delusional, or deliberately misleading. Branson, like Robbins, has his private island getaway. When times were good, lots of people would book. The economy tanked and suddenly it is time to find new fish.
          Anyone who wanted the photo op time with Branson coughed up $40,000 for the week at the island with him. The funds supposedly went to Branson’s charity. Who knows?
          I’ve seen these guys play (up to Branson’s level if you want to consider that the hierarch). It is buying credibility through association with Branson. Same reason Russell Brunson was donating money to Branson’s charity in order to name one of the Virgin planes.
          Does the Dan Kennedy crew (particularly Joe Polish) run in the Branson crowd this way? Of course. Why? Because Dan Kennedy has pounded it into their heads to build themselves up by linking with celebrity. It is the same reason Kennedy mentions Donald Trump all the time, has Apprentice contestants speak, etc. Tie yourself to a star and little stardust rub off on your own business in the process.
          $40,000 was the entry fee this past year for the week of hanging out with Branson. I deal with attendees all the time. I know what it is about. And it is not the Syndicate, puppets pulling strings above the Syndicate, etc.
          You can make a strong argument that Russell Brunson’s family members and ties to the Mormon business community have done far more for him than ass-kissing Branson. And yet, Russell is retiring. Conspiracy? Or perhaps getting out while there is time.

        4. @mikefilsaimeinder ::

          Interesting stuff. You touch on some subjects I’m not necessarily ready to discuss in public … but if you think you have a idea about the structure of the PuppetMaster … then let’s talk about it. It won’t be rebuffed as crazy talk … although it would have been 9 months ago.

          Here’s what I will say ::

          1. I love that movie Network. One of the only good things about the 1970’s

          2. I totally agree with you that these IM circle jerk bitches are just ghetto ass nobodies … but that their pathologies are fractal representations of behaviors that go all the way to the top.

          3. You do have to know the secret to move forward in your “career.” People are meat … live with it. At first you are allowed or encouraged to delude yourself. But there is moment … that I call Styx for effect … where you show you know “people are meat” … or you are done. If you do it … you’ll never be the same.

          4. No one is acting alone … at the bottom or the top. The higher up you get … the more psychotic the control becomes. You might be bringing in the fat cash wads … but you are getting further and further from freedom.

          5. I wouldn’t worry too much about my call from the PuppetMaster. He can bite me. I already know all about his dumb fuck secret. But just because you can … doesn’t mean you should.

          @Markus The Puppet Master

          First :: “Never assume bad intent when stupidity will suffice” :: is pretty great.

          Second :: I would tend to agree with you about Branson … and buying access to celebrity photo ops. Same thing in the press release above where Tellman goes to a Clinton fundraiser in his hippie pimp costume … $15k and a pulse and you’re in. No need to jump to conclusions about someone I hope will offer me a comped trip into Space.

          But … isn’t sidling up on celebrities a classic cult tactic?

          There is something to what @filsaimeinder is saying. Something scary.

        5. Here are my thoughts on @mikefilsaimeinsider’s comments:

          **”The puppet master level is higher than the the syndicate though. The people you see in this droids posts today are at that level. Yes Knudson is more powerful than the syndicate people are. He is not a puppet master himself though, but as on the edge of the puppet master.**”

          –> Still not convinced Tellman is any different than any other of these IM gurus.

          **”Well ask yourself this for a second who is a god in the eyes of Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, and their friends?”**

          –> Does saying who is their god a more dramatic way of saying who are they modeling or who is it they are trying to gain knowledge from… however valuable or misintentioned that knowledge is?

          **”One god you could say is Dan Kennedy. Is he a puppetmaster? Close.”**

          –> I am pretty sure that most of the guys in this camp including Kern attribute some of their knowledge, tactics, whatever to him.

          “**Who are bigger than them? Well, who put up money to help Robbins put infocommericals on TV? Follow the money at all times and you will discover the true puppetmasters.”**

          –> Wasn’t this Guthy-Renker?

          **”A special meeting was setup for someone that could put her over the top to an even higher level. She was so nervous before the meeting she almost broke out in hives. She almost backed out. To her this man was a god.This man was Richard Branson.”**

          –> Where did this story come from?

          **”If you sit back and connect the dots the person closest to Richard Branson in the Internet marketing world is Yanik Silver. And Knudson.”**

          –> I agree with the others. Yanik and Tellman are just paying the money for celebrity association. I don’t think Yanik has any more pull than any of the other main stream internet marketing personalities.

          **”When a guy gets on the peripherary of the syndciate and filsaime and fallon where do they go? They go on a business venture trip setup by Yanik Silver and most likely though I am not sure with a partnership of Branson in that business venture company. AT the least there was help starting it. You can’t get no higher up in internet marketing than yanik silver and the most powerful man you see that is close to silver is branson. Who is Silver modeling?**”

          –> I believe you are referring to Yaniks company, Maverick business adventures. Yanik is collecting money to allow other IM people to mastermind. He knows they want to meet and make associations with others in the industry and he is stepping in and collecting money for doing so. Kind of like a dating site… but not really.

          **”There is a mthod how complete psychological control begins. There is a secret given to the person being inducted. And no it isn’t positive thinking. It is negative thinking about the masses.”**

          –> I know Dan has explicitly taught these guys that most people who buy information will never open the shrink wrap… that you can’t worry about those. As long as the people who read and implement the information have a reasonable and likely chance to be successful with whatever it is teaching.

          “**Humanids who have no will of their own but are manipulated by corporations, government, and evil. And you with possession of this secret can now manipulate the masses to give you money. If you do not someone else will just take the money from them so it might as well be you.”**

          –> Again Dan Kennedy quotes Cavett Roberts of saying, “humans are walking around with their umbilical cords in hand looking for somewhere to plug it in.” Is this the kind of stuff you are referring to or something more?

          **”But for the intitate it comes down to first showing them the secret.”**

          –> Again what am I missing? The secret is that to progress in business, life, etc, that you have to manipulate, and dehumanize people, to get what you want? That is the secret?

          –> This is starting to sound like a scene from Atlas Shrugged. The entire beauracracy lived by principles that were mostly implicit, but never fully verbalized.

          –> Last comment… I think it is very interesting to consider these things. I kind of feel like I did when walking Angels and Demons, the tom hanks movie… I was intrigued by the idea of the secret organization, and a little pissed in the end when it was all a setup sham.

        6. Mike Long cheats at Magic the Gathering. I don’t really think he’s one of the “good guys”. I don’t think he got disillusioned and left – he got shut out. He’s doing that “Bring the Fresh” nonsense with Felix from Rich Jerk, and prior to that he was couch surfing with the PUA set.

  7. Thanks for the link to the IRS search for charities database. I did a search for my favorite dbag’s use of conspicuous altruism. Joe Vitale usually starts talking about his “Operation YES” whenever the heat gets hot under his feet as a diversion. I can’t find any Operation YES registered in that database either. James Ray is listed on http://www.operationyes.com as a contributor. How can anyone contribute if it is not registered?

    1. People can contribute to anything – it doesn’t have to be a charity, legal or otherwise. If you want to contribute to my rent fund for this month, I’d appreciate it. I’ll look forward to Salty’s report on this “Operation” if it ever gets launched.

      James Ray’s name isn’t on that site any more… maybe Joe Vitale is reading. If so…

      Hi, Joe… “are we having fun yet?”

        1. I vaguely recall flipping through an old autobiography of Joe Vitale’s (“Adventures Within”) in a used book store, and in it, I’m almost certain he actually confessed to having been quite the bedwetter (seriously). Not that I am making fun of bedwetters, if any of them happen to be reading this. But does anyone have an appropriate address where Joe could be sent a gift box of Jumbo Pampers (wrapped in 24k gold leaf of course, to recognize his current “celebrity” status)?

          I was hoping that might be a good icebreaker to get him to JV with me on a hastily-written ebook about discovering joy and happiness in your microwave oven.

        2. Jasper:

          It’s all right there on the “Contact Joe” page of http://www.mrfire.com:

          The Vitale Estate
          121 Canyon Gap Rd.
          Wimberley, TX 78676-6314

          Contact Joe by E-mail
          joe@mrfire.com

          Telephone and Fax

          Telephone: +1 (512) 847-3414
          FAX: (512) 847-0529

          Now you can even call or fax and let him know it’s on its way or follow up to make sure they arrived.

        3. Thanks, Poop! Wow, Joe has an ESTATE! It says so right above his address. My Uncle Farbus also had an estate, but the locals just called it a mobile home. I wonder if Joe’s estate also has a tandem axle.

          Has anyone here had the opportunity to shake Joe’s annointed hand or been permitted a fleeting moment of exposure to his magnanimous aura? Or maybe just held a water glass he once touched or spit in some years back? I am sure it must be quite an experience.

          My second choice would be to sit down and eat burritos with Pat O’Brian but I wouldn’t want to pay for that meal!

        4. Hey wow, Jasper, even I don’t go that far. I’d rather focus on Joe Vitale’s current business practices than bring up something from his apparently painful childhood like that. But maybe that painful childhood is a starting point for understanding how and why Joe Vitale feels the need to sell craptastic products like the Secret Russian Wish dolly with magical powers.

          As for his estate, I wrote a little post about it not long ago.

          1. @BurnedByFire ::

            I agree :: we should stay focused on his current problems. Like how I’ve heard that he smells vaguely of pee … and that sometimes he stands in the corner trying not to suck his thumb and saying “I’m sorry Mommy” over and over.

            Here’s your estate article :: http://mrfirespyre.blogspot.com/2009/12/new-wage-lottery-ticket.html

            … if you write about what I write about … you are more than welcome to post your links in here. Team GoodGuys FTW!

        5. You may be right, Burned By Fire. I probably shouldn’t bring up old memories like that. Maybe I could make up for it with a Cottonelle gift certificate.

          Like you said though, it might be relevant in explaining the inspiration behind those secret magic dollies.

          I ran across an old (now abandoned) Mr. Fire blog on blogspot. You can actually observe a window in there where he kind of transitions from a “marketing dude” to this “spiritual self help dude.”

          Here is a revealing post from that blog in terms of showing his actual mindset. He describes a Barnum-type hoax he pulled to promote his book, “The Attractor Factor:”

          http://mrfire.blogspot.com/2006/03/great-lotto-hoax-revealed-or-why-pt.html

          Main blog: http://www.mrfire.blogspot.com

          It’s funny how the media gives attention to all his metaphysical stuff and seems to overlook the lead-in to all of that: his prior advertising, copywriting and P.T. Barnum stuff. If you consider that, it gives you a much better, REAL idea where he is coming from.

        6. @SaltyDroid – OK. LOL. Remind me to never publish stories of my childhood and then market magic wish dollys and tell people I live on an multi-million dollar estate in order to get them to pay me money every month for my secrets.

          Actually, if I could write a playbook for how NOT to do business, that would be chapter #1.

          Thanks for posting the link. I was actually being lazy. :o

          Jasper – I remember that blog. He was a guru in the making … there were signs then. He was either going to be an IM guru or a spiritual guru. Yes, that appears to be his house, as far as I can tell. I tried to see if it was just an office there and maybe he owned a house elsewhere, but I couldn’t find any other home owned by him in the area in my searches.

        7. I have to admit I cringed at the jokes about that story in “Adventures Within.” More than fifteen years ago (back when Joe and I were friends), I read the manuscript for this book. I did not do this in any professional capacity, nor as one of Joe’s “readers” that he normally recruits to help him polish a manuscript. He simply wanted me to look at it when I had the time, and give him some feedback.

          Overall I thought it was a fascinating book, and I actually enjoyed it, but I was a bit shocked that he would include the story discussed here. I suggested to him that this might not be the wisest idea. He kind of shrugged off my suggestion, as I recall; but it was NBD either way, because as far as I knew he wasn’t actively doing anything to publish the book. He had other projects in the works and seemed to be concentrating more on those, and I had my hands full with work as well. We were going to have a follow-up discussion about the manuscript, but never got around to it (mostly my fault; I got sidetracked). Years later, when “Adventures Within” was published, I noticed that the story remained intact. I actually thought, “That took courage.”

          I have not been kind to Joe on my blog, but I have always refrained from exploiting this anecdote, and on more than one occasion I have rejected comments that mentioned it. While I think the severe abuse he suffered at the hands of his dad almost certainly left a permanent mark on Joe, there are some things I just don’t feel moved to joke about.

          And, not to play devil’s advocate here, but “Adventures Within” is really more of a spiritual autobiography than anything, and it does demonstrate that Joe has been interested in spiritual stuff for much of his life. (BTW, he was a follower of the late Osho, formerly Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, for seven years.) Only in more recent years has he found ways to combine marketing and spirituality — often in snarkworthy ways, to be sure — but he has been interested in both areas for a very long time.

        8. It’s too bad Joe didn’t heed your advice, Cosmic Connie! Otherwise he could have avoided this little bit of crude humor entirely. I’m also very surprised he would integrate bedwetting in with his bio. Maybe he had a promotional deal worked out with Tide.

        9. It keeps on getting better. Besides his adventures in bedwetting, Joe apparently has a special interest in FARTING. Presumably, SPIRITUAL FARTING. (Maybe as in “Now…become one with your gases.”)

          Joe proudly displays a link to the FARTS-R-FUN blog on his blogroll. I didn’t, however, immediately notice any references to a Doody Blog, but then I didn’t look very hard.

          Ironically, the listing for the FARTS-R-FUN web site appears well ABOVE the link to his pal Pat O’Brian’s web site (coincidence?). Better luck next time, Pat (sniff, sniff)!

          Joe’s little farting fun spot:

          http://farts.typepad.com

          Just think, you can actually partake of the same online farting experience as the one and only Joe Vitale!

        10. Speaking of Joe’s secret magic wish dollies (“Hoshun”), this eye-opening video may help clarify a few things:

          httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hV7JDz2Yo0

        11. Just to keep facts straight (and trying to keep this discussion more or less on course): The Fart Central web site is a project that was started by some little kid. According to Joe’s July 30, 2007 blog post, he first found out about it when the kid, then eight years old, came to one of Joe’s book signings in July of 2007. At the time Joe and the boy met, the latter had already made $500 with his fart web site. By linking to the site, Joe was just doing his part to encourage a young web entrepreneur. It may be silly, but then, so is farting. I don’t really have a problem with that.

          As for Joe’s blogroll, it appears to be arranged alphabetically by the first word in the title, so “Fart Central” would appear before “Pat O’BrYan.”

          I don’t know about y’all, but I’m thinking it would be better to leave the kid alone, and leave the past child-abuse stories alone, and concentrate on the stuff that’s going on today and is truly snarkworthy. (Apropos of the latter, I did get a big kick out of that “Mindhack” video.)

        12. Thanks for the backstory on the farting web site, CC. I’m always for encouraging kids, so that was nice of Joe. Knowing how meager some kids’ allowances can be, I just hope Joe will also cut him a discount on his secret magic Hoshun doll.

        13. I see your points, Stoic. I wasn’t suggesting censorship, but I can understand why it seemed that way. I’ll just set my own boundaries and not try to set other people’s. :-)

    2. Whether or not you agree with Joe’s marketing, child abuse is no joking matter. If Joe disclosed such abuse growing up (as suggested in these comments) and if bed wetting was the result, it was and is a very traumatic experience for him. The abuse of a child is such a horrible thing to even ponder.

      I feel bad for all those that have suffered at the hands of their parents; the ones that are supposed to protect and nurture, not hurt and torment.

      Ok… that was my two cents. Now back to the topic on hand: marketers gone bad.

      1. @Cosmic Connie

        That has got to be one of the best comments that I have read on this blog.

        I am enjoying your blog by the way. Karin has spoken highly of you.

      2. Child abuse is no joking matter but neither is using that child abuse as a marketing tool. Joe showed a certain cynicism in marrying the two and putting the information out there. He’s a big boy now and has made the choice to mine his own life and ill-gotten gains to con others. Joe’s entire marketing strategy is using all and every experience to con others.

        The vid for his wish dolly claims to welcome feedback–yeah right. We’ve all seen the censorship practised by Joe and his ilk on any criticism. So now we must censor ourselves? To save Joe embarrassment?

        1. Excellent comment, stoic.

          There is a big difference between being sensitive to someone and giving a marketer a free pass when they are consciously cashing in on some previous “pain.”

          If someone chooses to describe and use their own “traumas” as a marketing tool, then they can’t expect people not to analyze and discuss it.

          All this information first came from Joe’s own mouth. He disclosed it in a manner that would produce money for him. His books have price tags.

          Joe obviously has NO PROBLEM cashing in on the past. So we should have no problem reviewing that past.

          The cash cat is out of the bag.

        2. Perhaps it would serve to apply a bit of pragmatism in the deciding whether to focus on Joe’s bedwetting history. I’ve known the man for many years, and have no respect for him beyond his apparent marketing ability. Certainly none for his version of “integrity.”

          However, while I am pleased to see his questionable activities exposed, I really think that his childhood dysfunctions would be best left alone. Lord knows, the man does enough in his adult life to warrant objective observation and harsh criticism, but allowing the dialog to devolve into taunting him for his childhood problems – even if he opened that door himself – will only serve to turn off people who might otherwise question his practices.

          His loyal sycophants will blindly defend him, of course, so nothing that is said will sway them. However, a person who is honestly looking for information upon which to judge the veracity of his claims would likely respond to the gleeful discussion of his bedwetting with sympathy, even to the point of completely discounting the valid questions that are being raised about him.

          This is certainly not a call for censorship, but rather an appeal to use good taste and judgment, even when discussing someone for whom we have only disdain. By focusing on this kind of stuff, we actually make him more sympathetic to all but the most die-hard skeptics, Just a thought…

        3. @RevRonRants: I must admit, you bring up a good point about not turning people off who might come here for info after questioning Joe’s claims. So are we connecting and informing, or just partying in our own choir rehearsal hall? Something to definitely think about.

          Since it’s his blog, let’s ping Salty (ping!) to share his own reasoned take on that point. You know he has to have one…

      3. Apparently Joe stole the Hoshun wish dolly idea from some Russian ladies who gave him a wooden Hochun Dolly as a gift and asked him for help promoting their site.

        I wonder how long he will aid the boy with the farting site–my guess, only until he can figure out a way to steal the idea and make a few shekels with Spiritual Farting himself.
        Joe’s well known for his altruism, Operation Yes anyone?

        1. Thanks, BBF. Of course as you know, last week Joe’s partner in the Wish Dolly scheme, Pat O’B, added a text box to the Hoshun marketing page to make the whole thing more palatable to “Western, left-brained” types. It did add some balance, but in my opinion, the big hook is still the magical-thinking aspect (“What if it works?”). And as we discussed on your blog, BBF, the timing of that addendum on the marketing page is interesting. Though Pat took the time to explain it on a discussion on my blog a few weeks ago, he apparently didn’t think it worth his while to put that explanation on the marketing page until Wish Dolly was brought to the attention of an Internet marketer whom he deeply admires. The object of Pat’s admiration tweeted something to the effect that he doesn’t believe in magic toys. Soon after, Pat announced that he had made the addition to Hoshun marketing page.

          As for “stealing” the idea of Hoshun from Maria: It is true, as Pat and Joe have explained in various ways, that the concept from which Hoshun/Hochun derives is part of a long folk tradition in Russia and Asia (Japan, to be more specific). However, it also seems to be true that Joe first learned of this tradition when a starstruck entrepreneur, Maria, approached him while he was in Russia and gave him one of the Hochun dolls she sells on her web site. Maria seems to be a genuine altruist, and from what I can tell, most of the proceeds from sales of her doll go to actual worthy causes. Apparently Maria was trying to propose a joint venture with Joe to sell the dolls, but her English wasn’t the best. Joe took Maria’s gift home and blogged about it a couple of times. He got together with his friend Pat, and the rest is marketing hysteria. I mean, history.

          Pat says that the real value of the product is in the audio files that accompany the printouts of Hoshun. Wish Dolly is just a gimmick, in other words. I haven’t listened to the audio files so I can’t judge one way or the other. But why the big magical, mystical what-if-it-works fanfare in the first place? Unless, that is, the dolly part was all tongue-in-cheek anyway…but then, wouldn’t that kind of contradict the whole concept? I’m no marketing expert so I guess I’m not qualified to speculate.

          And now, to bring the discussion back on track… hey, how ’bout that Tellman Knudson? :-)

          1. @BedWetting ::

            This was an interesting discussion. I love you guys!

            I agree that it’s best to focus on current practices … ripping scabs off of old wounds won’t help the cause.

            That said :: this is not a normal site. Maybe it increases awareness as an up-shot … but making fucking assholes squirm like the snakes that they are is a top priority. If you are bad enough to get named here {like Joe so clearly is} then you can expect me to shove my robot boot where ever it hurts the most. Bedwetting and “smells of pee” jokes are as far inside the wheelhouse as you can get.

            Get your Mr. Fire Bowling Ball NOW! It’s shaped just like Joe … and with only the slightest musk-o-piss. With Joe’s Balls you’ll only ever bowl strikes … and rainbows will shoot from your ass … along with a choir of angles singing the praises of Hoshon!

            FTW!

            I don’t know anything about Joe other than his marketing practices of the last two years. If I knew :: and believed :: some tale of terrible abuse {but please don’t tell it to me because I don’t care} :: then “I’m sorry Mommy” was probably a step too far. But I didn’t know :: so it was just awesome!

            Please disagree with me if I’m wrong :: but I don’t feel like a history of childhood abuse is a good fit with white collar trust crimes. Psychological aggression :: narcissism :: feelings of invulnerability :: over confidence? Seems like unusual tendencies to arise from the mother of all self-esteem destroyers.

    3. Preparing to duck the deluge as I admit that I feel genuine compassion for the little kid who wet the bed, and can clearly see how feeling like a loser growing up could lead him to such obviously desperate and degenerate attempts to gain approval, especially self-approval.

      That said, my own desire isn’t to see Joe hurt, but to see him stop misleading people who are genuinely seeking to improve their lives, just to keep up his own cash flow. IMO, standing around giggling about his bedwetting will only make him more inclined to keep striving to overcome his inner demons, while allowing him to add the layer of “poor little Joe” to his marketing repertoire.

      I’d challenge folks to look closely at what they want to achieve here, and to be judicious in deciding how to go about achieving it. If you just want to see Joe squirm (and I promise, I’m not being judgmental about that. I get it.), so be it. But realize that your efforts might well be helping him more than hurting him. While this “choir” rallies around the taunts, another choir will be circling the wagons. And the people who haven’t realized how smarmy his practices are will likely overlook his carefully concealed agenda, because they perceive his critics as mean-spirited adolescents.

      You really want to make him squirm? Challenge the bullshit he’s spreading at every opportunity. Send ABC news an e-mail detailing the aspects of his schtick that you find ludicrous and offensive. Hurry on that one, though, because according to Joe, the program with his interview will air in May (or sooner). Challenge his use of a phony PhD in his attempts to increase his credibility (that’s illegal in Texas, where he lives). Send comments to his blog, calling him on his crap. Do it dispassionately, and he just might actually allow the comment to be published, albeit with a dismissive response. Blessings, and all that. And if he doesn’t publish the challenge, you publish it elsewhere. Like on other blogs, run by folks who leave Joe comments. Not everyone is as diligent in silencing critics as Joe is.

      I’m not suggesting that anyone go easy on Joe, because I think he deserves all the backlash he’s getting. Only that you focus your criticism on his inappropriate behavior, rather than things over which he had no control. By doing so, I think there’s a much better chance that his behavior might improve, and that he’ll quit doing things that mislead people and distract them from leading productive and positive lives.

      And if that doesn’t work, what do we do? Depends. :-)

      1. “Depends.” Ha!

        That’s the spirit. It’s not about seeing him hurt … it’s about ignoring the fact there is a human being behind the marketing … because the marketing ignores the fact that it’s human beings that are being hustled.

        You’d think that everything I’m doing here would “rally the choir” … but it doesn’t. Lots of choir members have their minds changed by this insanity {after they are done issuing me death threats natch}.

        Truth + Pee Jokes = Win!

        Although I’m kind of getting them all out of my system … I’m already getting a bit bored. I don’t suppose he likes to poop in the bath tub or anything?

        1. Just to texture the “past hurts” deal… Joe is apparently NOT beyond using personal pain as a marketing ploy. Not too long ago, right after I wrote this post

          http://mrfirespyre.blogspot.com/2009/12/recap-week-of-december-7.html

          in which I wondered what it would be like to see his empire of dirt in flames, Joe twittered that his father had a stroke. After an influx of lovely “get better Joe’s dad” tweets, also from Connie and me, he came out with a blog post about critics needing to find something better to do with their time. And apparently later his dad was just fine. I am of the opinion that Joe lied about his dad being sick in order to garner positive support and transfer that over to his defense against the critics circling the “estate.”

          Don’t put anything past this guy. He was a rajneesh cult recruiter. His culty marketing days started then.

        2. BBF, thanks for that info. That just takes the cake! Using the “convenience of stroke” (and someone else’s supposed stroke at that) to get sympathy and create a distraction. Pathetic!

          At one time I thought Joe might have been well-intended but misguided. Now I just see massive ego and money hunger. I’m glad you and Cosmic Connie are staying on this guy. He’ll be featured here eventually, I feel sure of it. (Along with you too, Pat!)

  8. “A half a million won’t make a difference – it won’t save a whole lot of dying kids.”

    I had to laugh out loud at the irony of this statement.

    Go tell that to the kids in Gaza you peace of shit!!!

    Sorry, I don’t usually go off on one like that, but it’s pricks like this who really piss me off.

    Droid, you’re doing a seriously serious public service with this site.

    1. When I started reading here a while back I wasn’t sure that what was happening here was going to be that effective… like maybe nothing was going to happen results-wise.

      But now… it seems like he is going to systematically bring the skeletons out in the public’s eye of many of these marketer guys.

      I had never heard of Hershey whatever his name is and whammo… the droid just cuts the guys jugular on the first jab. Can you imagine waking up one day and see yourself featured here?

      Then you never hear of the long-haired hippy looking Tellman and BAM… here he is featured.

      Do you think maybe these marketers are going to sleep wondering if they are going to wake up and be next? I think more than a couple are losing sleep at thought of it.

    2. Apparently it would make a difference if they were homeless and *running*, since it helped Jesus Knudson so much! Maybe he would have met his goals if he’d had someone tailing him. Surely Mr. Fire could have chased him in one of the 20 cars he’s manifested.

      And I was shocked to see Just Like My Child on the IRS list, but with a 50% deductibility limit. That could buy a lot of get rich quick programs for the children of Africa.

    1. I remember you Rezbi. You were among the people who had an unpleasant encounter with internet marketer James Brausch. I saw your comment on Ray Edward’s blog at the time. Too bad Salty wasn’t around back then! (BTW, for anyone who remembers those dark days, Brausch’s current biz site is faddietsthatwork.)

      1. @Tom,

        Yep. I actually saved that guy hundreds of thousands of dollars (literally) by telling him about a security problem he had. And he repaid me by calling me a scumbag conman.

        1. Yeah, what a piece of work James Brausch was. He was also friends with fellow Mormon and the “equally non-deceptive” Eric Graham, who was recently featured right here on this blog. I can’t help but think that James Brausch and Harlan Kilstein would get along great together. I see them as being similar in many respects. By the way, Ryan Healy also recently wrote about James Brausch on his blog and described Brausch’s “disinformation” tactics.

  9. Droid, be prepared for a DDoS attack. It’s time to wage war against a scum like you. And as soon as we find your real address, we’ll chop your balls off. Not literally of course, since you don’t have balls – you don’t even have the guts to post your real full name…

    1. IM Mafia… HILARIOUS! LOL

      Denial of Service attack… dang it droid this site is done for now. (can you see the sarcasm dripping?)

      … oh and to the 16 year old kid who wrote that… the name is posted. It does require a little bit of reading to find. Maybe ask your mom to help you find it.

    2. Oh look: it’s yet another solitary, self-appointed drive-by farter. (AKA Scammer/Douchebag.) So you’re going to “chop his balls off?” Thanks for comfirming to the masses what your kind is really all about. However…why the conditional “not literally of course?” Afraid you’d choke on them?

      A DDoS attack would be great, though. That’s a federal offense, and would increase the Droid’s available staff by a few thousand, including the FBI, Justice Department, etc. So bring it on, loser!

      And to quote you verbatim: “you don’t even have the guts to post your real full name.” Yeah, YOU sure don’t, chickenshit. Don’t worry though…eventually, your name will be right here with the rest of them. It’s just a matter of time!

    1. Proof that you are an idiot. Give it your best shot then, ‘brave’ douche bag, and see if the long arm doesn’t reach you. We’ll bask in your look of surprise.

  10. “The long arm” of the FBI reaching us? Fuck off fool. TechCrunch was recently hacked and no one could trace the hackers, let alone arrest them.

    1. Aw, chickenshit, your mama is wrong as usual. You’re just blowing hot air, which is probably better than what you would otherwise be blowing. Now go turn out the basement lights and get back to your sleeping mat behind the furnance.

  11. @The IM Mafia ::

    You know what scary adversaries don’t do?

    Talk.

    You aren’t going to win a threat contest with me :: so you might as well shut up and do it.

  12. Hey @IM Mafia – Out of the US, eh? What a coincidence. So am I. Stop by and we’ll have a cup of tea, see the sights, then we can discuss why it’s generally a bad idea to attack the good guys (or in this case, the good Droid).

  13. Hey Salty,

    I’ve enjoyed the site, think you’ve done some good stuff, but the way you have accepted filsaime ‘insiders views’ is a little disturbing.

    At this point – he seems to be quite able to shape the site, and your agenda. Or you don’t agree and aren’t aware of the changes that have been taking place.

    Either you agree with his ‘insiders views’ or you should reject them? You have endorsed by engagement fringe views which move this site, in my opinion, away from its central aim.

    Suggestions and allusions have no real place here surely? You find out the bad stuff – you expose it? Instead, there seems to be a real attempt to flesh this out into something larger?

    You mentioned that there was something much bigger coming in February regarding Kern et al. I wonder, will it appear?

    To suggest that this particularly small niche has any sort of real sort of sway seems a grand claim on the part of filsaime. To add in puppet masters and try and tar Branson is absurd.

    Stopping con men = great results. Building this increasingly fringe view (granted, largely to do with comments and your interactions with them)- the unravelling of this great blog in the long term (I suspect).

    Maybe just come out and say what needs to be said – rather than dragging it out. Or go back to the meat and potatoes of this site and go after bad guys week in week out.

    It’s your site Salty – but it seems to be adopting a crazed subtext / narrative – not totally by your own action, but certainly your inaction.

    I’ve really got something from this site – but it seems to be heading in a direction that is blunting its real world value, and I can’t help but feel some of your previous targets will be very happy about that, and reappearing whilst this site loses cred.

    1. Interesting comment. But I think the problem you’re having is the content of this site is beginning to challenge your view of what the real world is.

  14. Okay okay kiddies, I thought this site was going to be fun. Poke some holes in a few d-bag new age hucksters, internet marketers and scam artists.

    But now it seems we’re heading down the “credibility killing” -conspiracy theory- rat hole.

    Not good SD!

    NEWS FALSH!

    If you take all these characters and add up everything they’ve all done online and off since 1999 it’s fucking CHUMP CHANGE -including everything Yanik, Casey and the Shoeless Hippie has done – PEANUTS people!

    Their numbers Branson snickers at and has no interest in. Puppet master LOL!

    No doubt these pseudo gurus all congregate and delude themselves into thinking they are some kind of “syndicate” (and they LOVE that you think that too) that’s the sort of shit narcissists feed off of. And no doubt they look at their marks/customers as nothing more than meat sacks with money to be harvested.

    So what, dumb fucks looking to get rich quick on the internet should be separated from their money (it’s part of the learning process).

    And some may even think that they have some control over what’s happening in the marketplace but that’s silly and delusional as well.

    Of course they fuck over the occasional upstart/wannabe along the way but hey that’s business reality folks EVERYWHERE, every market. It’s called dealing with the competition.

    There is no hierarchy, no conspiracy and NO puppet masters. (well maybe Jay Abraham j/k)

    The main thing they all these d-bags have in common is they are all attention seeking, short sighted dumb fucks that will eventually go bankrupt, disappear, go to jail and worse. Just like all that came before them.

    (exception being Marlon Sanders- I think his asian fever protects him from the exposure/radiation somehow lol)

    PS. Truth be told, there are some heavy hitters in the internet marketing world. You’ve never heard their names or seen their faces and never will. Why? Because they are the smart ones. They don’t suffer from ego related problems like those you target here. They know how to market without exposing their business models and likenesses. And for good reason, they understand in today’s business and societal climate, exposure and notoriety eventually brings death and destruction. In America we build and destroy. From Hollywood stars to successful local business people. No one is spared. Call it animosity, contempt or whatever.

    One could say, this site is an example of that mentality. But I do like the banter SD… keep’um coming.

    1. Ahhh…the voice of reason. It cuts through so loud and clear here. Everybody just needs to realize there is no need for pitchforks and flaming torches here. Information…shining the light in intentionally darkened spaces…can do the trick much more effectively.

      1. @poopchute – best avoid the phrase “voice of reason”..that has an unfortunate association round here.

        Otherwise I’d have to agree – while there are definitely mindsets and ideals that permeate through the business world, and there’ll always be silly yuppie-types that pose with Branson and other billionaires to look good, it’s a bit of a stretch to say it’s all some vast shady organisation. What you could call it is a meme; a set of attitudes which flourish in some areas of business generally. Perhaps this is what filsaimeinsider meant, because in the film clip he posted there is much talk of the natural ‘ecology’ and ‘order’ of business. It’s the difference between saying “There are dodgy businessmen” and “All dodgy businessmen are conspiring together” That’s a hell of a leap of logic.

        So I’m extremely sceptical that Branson is at all interested in Knudson, Brunson et al. Yes there are photos of them ‘masterminding’ but don’t you think Branson’s had photos taken with a fair number of people by now? Especially aspiring businessmen? Businesspeople mix. They network. They spend time around those more successful than themselves. They share some attitudes and behaviours this way (even, in some pockets, to the point of ‘cult behaviour.’) But a conspiracy it ain’t, at least, not until there’s some evidence of one.

        1. Good catch, @208-577-6210. I didn’t mean to imply somehow that the nefarious commenter here known as Voice Of Reason was being referred to but, rather, the real voice of reason the poser vor sullies.

          :)

          I agree Branson’s just doing what the politicians are doing and Tellman et. al are just copying the business folks who sidle up to celebrities ala’ Kennedy.

          Here’s the deal, folks — I said earlier just because someone is successful and making millions or whatever doesn’t make them inherently bad. But it doesn’t make them inherently good, either.

          One major public service I see Droid delivering here is the constant reminder to do your homework. Do some due diligence. Add the word “scam” when you’re looking somebody up before you buy and read and weigh the comments you see.

          Then, of course, Droid is doing his mechanized best to jam up the searches with “scam” on the end with Droid coverage to encourage more investigation.

          Interesting approach, I’d say.

    2. Those are all good points @Tiga :: sounds like shit I would say. No reason to jump to complicated conclusions when there are simpler explanations that will suffice.

      Don’t accept anything said here {or anywhere else} as truth without examining it critically for yourself. I would expect no less from the merry band of rationalists that are assembling here.

      However :: I WILL follow the facts regardless of where they lead. If they show me an organized conspiracy against the public … then that is the story I will tell.

  15. @ James Bond – Thanks for the intelligence work Bond. Time for some ball chopping and spamming.

    1. I haven’t laughed so hard in a long time! “Intelligence work.” That “intelligence” didn’t even require any intelligence. The info was already right here on this blog. “mafia boy” really needs to get a new tinfoil hat, if he has any money left over after buying his meds.

    2. Bond pointed you to two links on this very domain, both of which helpfully feature the word ‘Jason’ (which you already knew was the droid’s first name)

      The fact that you needed England’s top spy to uncover such a closely guarded secret indicates that the droid’s balls are pretty safe..and that you’re totally fucking incompetent. So ‘IM Mafia’ – good choice of name!

  16. Fuck it. I want in on the secret.

    Even better, we should make a movie and get it on oprah, maybe call it “The NEW Secret”

    Or just put it secretly in a porn called, “If I show you my Secret, You have to show me your Secret”

  17. Well these comments are good and stirred up :: FTW!

    I disavow any implication that Branson is associated in any way {other than lazy photo-op BS … which is BS and he should be more careful}. He has real companies … and real charities. This post is not pointing to him. Of the vast and wide conspiracies of life … if they exist … I have nothing to say.

    But what about the subject at hand?

    conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful;

    There is a conspiracy. 100% 4-sure.

    The only question is about its shape. Over the course of the year … everyone who talks to me who I consider knowledgeable … has laid out a version of this conspiracy for me {even if they didn’t know that’s what they were doing}. The truth of the situation is more horrible than most of you think … but I maintain hope that something can be done about it.

    So why haven’t I spelled it out for everyone? Because I’m not finished figuring it out … and it’s not something that people should be expected to just take my word on. Figure it out … find incontrovertible evidence … then tell people about it {with jokes} … in that order. I frequently hint in the comments that I know more than I’m saying … not to be coy … or to set up a false drama … but because I need those who know to tell me what they know. Are you under the impression that there is a string pulling impresario … or that things are not exactly as they appear? Tell me about it … I’ll humor you. {offer not extended to Markus … or anyone else who’s going to use the word “Jesuit” with sinister connotations}.

    The Droid is pragmatist :: and a die hard realist. That I’m humoring such ideas should make you all a little nervous.

  18. This is kind of strange. During Tellman’s “cross country” run, he “pauses” it to take a flight to Atlanta to appear at some internet marketing event. (As if he will just go back later and “pick up” right where he left off.) What about the generally accepted concept of “cross country, start to finish?” He might as well have just stayed home and run that distance on a treadmill (or tried to anyway).

    httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uwAc7cLUDw

      1. Maybe he’ll offer up his blisters as a bonus for signing up to his continuity program. “Shabambo!” (And does anyone know what that means, besides only Tellman?)

      2. Vile sicko looks like someone you would see on a telephone pole with a warning to keep away from your children.

  19. “Hey Asshole :: you’ll notice that I didn’t link directly to her like that. Give me a fucking break huh?”

    Now you know how it feels like when you call us marketers scammers. Thankfully we noted down the URL. Tell the bitch to be careful, we’re on the prowl…

    1. When your mama finally tells you the truth, that you ARE a scammer, you are going to owe the Droid one BIG apology. In the meantime, YOU ARE GROUNDED.

  20. @Blah – We already knew the pages where this SOB jason talks about himself. But Bond gave us the direct link to the page that has this scum’s wife’s info on it.

    You should get your eyes checked.

    1. Oh, so “Bond” helped you with his top secret, “advanced keyboarding and mousing skills” when you kept coming up short. (But isn’t that also what all the girls say? Just kidding. I know they don’t say that, because magazines can’t talk.)

      You keep mentioning, “we.” Ever seen “Psycho?” Probably not, what with mama’s short leash and being locked behind that basement door. Maybe if you stop scratching around down there she’ll upgrade you to a 40 watt light bulb.

      If you need a few extra days to formulate your next sentence, we’ll understand.

  21. **”Who are bigger than them? Well, who put up money to help Robbins put infocommericals on TV? Follow the money at all times and you will discover the true puppetmasters.”**

    –> Wasn’t this Guthy-Renker?

    ……..So who owns Guthy Renker….?

  22. The Secret movie would have to be the biggest load of shit ever released. Look at the wankers who were on it and look at all the crap that has come out on them and their fake titles and fake expertness and fake beliefs and fake everything.

  23. @IM Mafia – Be aware that while Jason may be fair game for you because he has challenged you and your ilk openly, his wife is off limits. Way off limits.

    Think carefully about what you say and do, as there are some of us who do not operate in the same kind manner as the Droid.

  24. @Not Amused – His wife is off limits? Who are you to say that? All’s fair in war. He should have thought about his loved ones before scarring the reputation of our fellow marketers. Too bad for his wife.

  25. Threats against the Droid’s wife are way uncool, and can get you some serious time-out points. You should think twice.

  26. Salty::

    So here’s what I don’t get::

    These guys might have a little dirt, most businesses don’t operate completely in the clear:: hello Toyota accelerator problems, way to do the recall after you’ve killed a bunch of people even tho you knew about the problem way before then.

    But in the same respect, I doubt most of the internet “gurus” don’t wake up and think:: who can I screw out of money today? These guys have undoubtedly made some stupid mistakes:: (Just Like My Child –the IRS is coming and they are so pissed!) Or have committed charity fraud outright (Tellman, the IRS will be coming for you too, just as soon as they’ve finished with Mikey and wife!!!)

    Some of these guys are scum, while some are probably legitimately trying to help people (and even succeeding –granted they’re also failing at the same time– go figure) They’re probably victims of their own marketing, sometimes even beyond their ability to fulfill.

    The problem is, because they all seem to share and use the same ways of marketing, it’s hard to tell good guys from bad (assuming of course that these guys exist in stereotypical good guy or bad guy type polarity)

    In my own business, I have experienced that the real challenge is most customer complaints are subjective::

    For example, someone may buy something from Fallon/Jenkins and not do anything with their purchase. So they feel they were ripped off (and given the sales process it’s not hard to see why)

    That same person will then turn around and buy something from Brunson and by some twisted miracle actually get off their lazy no good, Cheet-O eating, Old Milwaukee guzzling, remote control surgically implanted into the palm of their hand, whiney, self-serving, unfit, uneducated, undoubtedly hairy butt and try something:: and it works for them (not giving a plug to Brunson, but you get the idea) But then they stop working, so it stops working, and now they are feeling like they were ripped off again. So they find the next thing they think is a magic bullet (nice job Kern:: I am sure the FTC loved your disclaimer)

    While it is good to try to hold these guys accountable, the risk is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Then again when the water is as dirtied as it is with internet marketing gurus, it is hard to tell the difference. Much of what is taught by these guys actually works:: if you want to know about running a business online you should know how to do internet marketing which means you should know something about SEO, email marketing, paid seach, social networking, web 2.0 etc.

    That said:: ANYONE who has been named by Salty (aside from his pets and kids:: they know better than to piss him off) should see this as a chance to look at your processes and try to fix what you may be doing wrong and work harder to be better:: or just go away:: Salty doesn’t seem to forget or forgive.

    You should take a long hard look at your customers and making sure they get what was promised. Look at your customer success rates (.0001% succeeding is not “typical” –THANK YOU FTC!!!– the government can do math afterall), refund rates (20% is WAY WAY WAY too high), and other possible indications of unhappy customers:: it’s crap like this that will show you if you’re mostly helping or mostly hurting people:: and if you are hurting people:: do something about it. If you don’t, then you deserve what you get. Great site Salty!

    What I can’t get over is these guys wouldn’t have a market if people stopped believing that they can press one button and have a website with customers lining up on the information highway:: with cash falling from the sky, so they can buy big mansions with pools full of extremely hot, yet strangely equally loose women, who will desire nothing more than to wildly fornicate with their grandly out of shape body. Then after that quick 5-second romp(here’s to all the one-pump-chumps dreamers of the world) they can speed around town in their brand new Italian sports car which they neither know how to drive nor care for, dropping bags of diamonds out the window as they go laughing at all the sorry broke people they unfortunately have to pass along the way– damn those public streets (it’s like a bad Bud Light commercial) With fools like this P.T. Barnum wishes he was alive today.

    People of the world::

    Business is hard:: marketing is hard:: these things take work:: if you’re not willing to work, don’t buy this or any business-related content. Don’t waste money on an trying to learn anything (don’t waste a cent on education:: virtual or otherwise:: even the completely worthless University of Phoenix will fail people who don’t work:: good luck trying to get your money back from them:: and it’s as easy as giving University of Phoenix your credit card and you’re in!!! So it’s not too much different from these schmucks)

    If this stuff was so easy no one ::not even illegal immigrants:: would work at Burger King, clean your toilets, or carry leaf blowers (those lucky leaves) they too would be racing around in fast cars with fast women dumping buckets of diamonds out all along the way.

    Here’s a general rule of thumb, brought to you courtesy of me:: If it seems to be too good or too easy, it’s because you are stupid –immediately FORGET WHERE YOU PUT YOUR CREDIT CARD (It can’t be hard, we’ve already established you are stupid) In fact, you shouldn’t have a credit card:: I am not sure I even trust you with cash. (I would say you should be stuck with the barter system:: but Eric Graham figured out a way to make that work to his advantage). But if you are dumb enough to give a complete stranger your credit card information or lots of money without really looking at what it is you are buying and who you are buying it from, or taking even the briefest of moments to wonder if it will actually take that dreaded four-letter word –WORK:: if you are sucked in by all the sizzle and ignore the steak:: If you don’t work:: you, too, deserve what you get.

    If a website or telemarketer tells you that if you take this magic pill you’ll shit gold (which is wrong, in case you were wondering:: bad telemarketer, bad!) or you’ll instantly have a website with traffic pouring in and people paying you millions for your opinion on why the meditating on the law of attraction is a great way to make money (similar to the above-mentioned shitting gold example):: and you believe them enough to give them your credit card:: well, you’ll be poorer, and end up with a product you are too stupid or too lazy to use:: they’ll have your money and know –because you’ll never actually get around to using the product and are too lazy to call– you won’t bother trying to get a refund:: You won’t buy anything from them ever again and complain about it to friends who will mock you behind your back or even directly to your face for being so stupid (as most people hang out with people of similar economic and socail strata odds are they’re probably pretty stupid too if they are your friend):: Meanwhile off in some distant land the guy you bought from is living the life you desire because he has the very website that you thought you were getting:: it obviously works because you bought:: well you both deserve what you get.

    But the one thing I can’t quite get is: why focus on just internet marketers?

    These guys are all such small fish in a big “information marketing” pond. The money these guys pull out of “customers” is nothing in comparison with John Beck, Carlton Sheets, Ron Legrand, Robert Allen, and the real estate circle jerks; or T. Harv Eker, James Ray, Brian Tracy and the self improvement snake-oil peddlers.

    These internet guys might be lucky to get a few hundred to a few thousand from a customer. The real estate and self improvement gurus charge $15,000 to $70,000 for their programs. In fact, I have heard of some charging more than $100,000. People actually mortgaged their homes to buy crap from these guys. You want to talk about ruining lives? Real estate and self improvement gurus do it with 4 or 5 zeros behind the number. Again, not saying you shouldn’t go after internet marketers, there’s certainly enough crap to keep a farmer’s field fertilized:: but most of the real estate and self improvement types are making high eight figures each year:: and have years upon years of unhappy even ripped off clients:: just a thought.

    By the way:: love the double colon thing:: I think I will borrow that from you.

    All the best
    DD

    1. DD makes some excellent points all around, one of the main ones being that the IM gurus — and all of the other species and subspecies of huckster — couldn’t do what they do without a ripe and hungry market. True, they work aggressively and unrelentingly to create, sustain, and grow those markets, but in many cases the screwees have to bear at least some responsibility for the screwing.

      That said, I had to smile at DD’s question: “Why focus on just Internet marketers?” I have been asked the very same question more than once regarding my own blog’s focus on New-Wage hustledorks (or “the self-improvement snake oil peddlers,” as DD put it). In my case, I’ve more often been asked, “Why not focus on ‘Big Pharma,’ or the medical profession, or the auto industry, or the food industry, or the banking industry, or the US political system, rather than James Ray and his ilk?” My fellow critics (aka “haters”) and I have also been taken to task for not focusing on the dramatic and sexy world problems that REALLY matter, such as the genocide in Darfur, or the worldwide AIDS epidemic.

      And my answer has always been that there are plenty of other blogs, sites, and organizations that focus on those other issues. Not to mention that some of these problems are quite often the focus of high-profile rock-star We-Are-the-World-type projects. Well, *I* happen to be interested in New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality, and have been for many years. It doesn’t mean that I believe the absurdities and real problems in that industry/culture are the most serious ones on the planet, nor does it mean that I am blissfully unconcerned about Darfur or AIDS or Big Pharma or the food industry.

      The big question of priorities also reminds me of some of the people I know who are active in various types of animal rescue organizations. They, too, have caught flak from self-righteous types who grouse about their concern with “dumb animals.” They’re sometimes asked, “With all of the homeless people, abused children, human illness, poverty, etc. in the world, why are you focusing on lower species? Take care of your own first.” And most of these people answer in much the same way I have: Animal rescue happens to be their passion.(Not that I am seriously comparing my hobby blog to the real work done by the caring and compassionate folks who rescue abused or abandoned animals, mind you, but the situation is roughly analogous.)

      The point is that one person or one organization — or one blog — can’t tackle all of the world’s problems. The only sane and reasonable thing to do is pick your battle(s).

      I surmise that Droid has his own reasons for focusing on the IM hucksters, many of whom, frankly, I hadn’t heard of before reading his blog. While I don’t hold to any grand conspiracy theories, and I certainly don’t look at the IM problem as monolithic (even as I don’t look at the self-help industry as monolithic or diabolical), there are definitely some interesting dots being connected on Droid’s blog.

      I have to admit, though, that I still don’t really get the double-colon thing — at first I thought it was some Mac-to-PC translation problem with em or en dashes — but it eventually dawned on me that it’s deliberate. In any case I’ve always been a bit of a punctuation conservative, but I hope you won’t hold that against me.

      1. Don’t sell yourself short CC :: your blog is way more important than animal rescue {although The Droid loves animals and appreciates animal rescue peeps}. And if someone were actually making some dents into the Darfur clusterfuck … then that would be more important than taking down the combination of all of our badguys. Harms can be measured. Malaria nets BEFORE antiretrovirals.

        But what good could we do with snark blogs against Big Pharma … or Somalian Rebels … or Chinese Political oppression? Probably none.

        I stand for World Peace! BFD … no one cares … not gonna happen.

        Perry Belcher shouldn’t be selling info products! Okay … sounds reasonable … maybe that can be arranged.

    2. @DD ::

      Some good points there. Interent Marketing {as in real marketing … not cult dollars} is important for business. And there is a lot to know … especially if you are new to the series-of-tubes. Some of these programs probably do get some of the basics correct … and may offer some rewards if diligently applied. But you’ll notice that I’m rarely talking about the quality of the content. It never comes to that because all the tactics they use to move these products are so insanely criminal and evil. Who cares what’s in the program if you’re going to use a fake charity to sell it? Not me.

      Q: Why Internet Marketers?

      A: Accident.

      I know everyone wants a more interesting answer than that … but that’s the truth so it’s all you’re ever going to get. It just sort of happened. I was messing around … they overreacted … and it started this bizarre chain of events. But now I’ve started … so I’m going to finish. These dicks are doing massive harm … and no one seems to give a shit. Might as well be me.

  27. Jebus, there are so many novels posted to comment this post, i’m getting a headache and forgot what I wanted to say >:(

    IM Mafia: stop toying around, do your first promised attack before you continue the threats. even amateurs like you and your crabs should know about action vs. words. look at the RAF, they knew how to terrorize. bombs first, threats second. see the order? either debate the issue like a grown-up or go back and play Al-Qaida with your little friends in the sandbox.

      1. Your mommie put those words in your mouth? How ever did they fit, what with all the nads rolling around in there?

  28. I noticed a promotion of Tellmans a couple of years ago that had a quote from Bill Graham that appeared to endorse Tellmans program. I wrote the the evangelistic association for Graham and asked them if they’d begun endorsing internet marketers — or any business for that matter. They replied that they did not endorse his program.

    Taking a really close look at the way he put it in his sales letter it could be argued that he was only quoting Billy Graham and that it was not an endorsement. However unless you really sat and thought about it — you’d read it as an endorsement.

    Marketers tend to prey upon associations and will push the envelope wherever they can to get another sale. Anytime you see something that is misleading — but perhaps ambiguous enough to avoid a law suit — I can assure you it is no accident. Every writer of winning sales letters considers every comma, every word, every capitalization, you name it — they have crafted it that way — it is never an accident.

  29. N Pod

    Listening to lenthy audio right now. I’ve heard Tellman K. so many times i know his voice better than my own. He is promoting “N Pod” under the name of “Joshua” who lives in Florida.

    Watch out!

  30. Tellman’s recent email spam:

    ——————————-

    Dear _____ what can you do –

    When your web hosting restricts
    how many folks you can mail to?

    You can find the answer to this
    restricting issue in this episode
    of Dear Tellman…

    Which incidently I recorded from
    the Jungle tea fields of Malaysia!

    Free your marketing here!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-C2ujzi4o

    SHABAMBO!
    ——————————————

    So the video has already been removed. Cool Tellman, Cool!

  31. Never, I repeat, never give your credit card data to this guy. He will keep charging you every month, no responses from him and no no way of getting out except calling your bank to cancell your credit card.

  32. I want all I paid back. Tellman is a ripoff artist. $379.00 & $196.00

    Lkralovec, Aug 14 17:21 (ADT):
    Lee Kralovec
    l

    I want my $379.00 back from the over coming fear set. Tellman said satisfaction guarantee.
    I am NOT satisfied. I have asked several times for sessions 6 & 7 and the 5 pillars which were included and not received.

    Also money for $49.00 x 2 = $98.00 for July & August on the self hypnosis program as I did not receive any sessions in August and nothing after July 15/2012 for July.

    Also one cannot access past session as Tellman said we could.

    Lee Kralovec

    1. @Lee Kralovec,

      If you used a credit card, try getting your credit card company to do a charge back. If you used a debit card, do the same thing but go through your bank.

      If it’s been a while, that might not work, but it’s your best bet.

      Additionally, for the record, and to help make doing fake scammy business a little bit more difficult for Tellman, I suggest taking Salty’s advice from here:
      saltydroid.info/complaints/

      Good luck.


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  33. He is a ripoff artist!
    on the new hypnotist he gets one started with the program them has excuses for not delivering product.

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