154 Comments »

stoic said:
What a shame that this may be the last we will see of Death Ray in orange jumpsuit and shackles for some time. That and the gummy, toothless look so suits him.
One of the court discussion points was that he definitely doesn’t want to be photographed as above, he is clearly still worried about tarnishing his public persona with his current image.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:22 am
To Stoic:
I don’t get it. If the deal fell through, how does he have anything to bargain with? I personally LOVE the jumpsuit, and definitely think that orange is his color.
  +6
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 6:48 am

SD (author) said:
ShamBlog weighs in on the “is he broke” question …
http://shambook.blogspot.com/2010/02/demonic-wealth-or.html
“If Mr. Harmony Hisself, the maestro of wealth-building, managed his portfolio and his low-overhead empire so poorly that he now can’t raise $500,000 cash bail** even by liquefying assets—if the guy couldn’t make his failsafe methodology work, even for him—then he’s revealed as a fraud.
If Ray put his money illegally out of reach of the IRS and/or other regulatory bodies and, to compound that sin, is now lying about his actual circumstances—also with the long-range goal of making himself lawsuit-proof when it comes time for his day(s) of reckoning in civil court—then he’s revealed as a cheat and a scoundrel.”
Either way :: Death Ray sucks!
[Reply]

featheredfriend Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Youve got to wonder where the joy is in living life in such a shitty dishonest way. Wouldnt it be so much sweeter to HONESTLY pay your debts and have EVERYBODY love you instead of PRETENDING THAT EVERYONE LOVES YOU?
These guys will get hell for the rest of their lives because the do things so dishonestly.
LAW OF DETRACTION
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 7:41 am

TheObserver said:
Mr. Salty,
Why not add 578 other people to this photo, close the tent, add hot steam, remove oxygen and let someone with a huge ego and authority yell down to Ray with a Megaphon, “You are not getting out! … not giving up. You go through this or die. Nobody is getting out.”
I am not a particular fan of your blog [that's my problem not yours :-) ] but I must say, “Ray has gone way too far,” and I applaud you for pointing it out.
Cheers
  +6
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 7:51 am

noodlebowl said:
In addition to orange jumpsuits, you get to use steel toilets in jail.
Its a bit easier in the women’s section, because more human facilities allow the gals to paste Kotex pads around steel bowl so your bare vulnerable booty isnt touching cold metal each and every time you have to do #2 or have a wee.
But in the gent’s section, Kotex is not available*, so any time a fellow has to bust a grumpy, he has to sit down on cold metal, unless theyve found some way to warm it up.
Wonder what the food is like in there–ask around.
Unless budget cuts have gotten worse, food is reportedly very much better at most Federal facilities.
If you’re in a state or muni lock up and the budget is tight, food is not
likely to be quite as good–unless there are some funds still left and the kitchen crew are good.
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 10:49 am

Rafael Marquez said:
“bust a grumpy” that’s hilarious
  +3
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 11:27 am

the voice of reason said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Hey, Salty super lib, I know you’re sore from all the bitch slappings I’ve been forced to deliver to you (even though they were for your own good–in an attempt to make your site better), but take a sec and answer this…
What the fuck is the point of beating this dead horse Ray? Come on…it’s played. The guy has been torpedoed, and it’s time to move on.
I thought you said your site was about shining light on dbags and taking down the scum? Well, Ray is toast. Posts on him are a waste, when there are plenty of other assholes to frag.
You remind me of those old WW2 videos of sailors aboard ships in the Pacific. They’d shoot at kamazis, but if you watch them, they’d idiotically keep firing at the plane as it plunges into the ocean no where near a ship…all the way until the plan hit the water.
What’s the fucking point? Ray is dead. RIP motherfucker. Now stop wasting ammo for no purpose, and train your gun that you run your mouth about so often on some of the other dbags. Who fucking cares if Ray is busted and can’t make bail.
Start practicing what you pronounce your site to be, and get on with the crusade.
Seriously, any more posts on Ray are nothing more than a cheap TMZ entertainment thrill.
LOSER!! ::   -21
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS THUMBING DOWN VOR JUST BECAUSE HE’S VOR?
Agreed. I have little interest in the Ray posts anymore.
The reality is, Ray is an easy target. You can point out a lot more bad facts, where as the other big players can only be called “douchebags” so many times, which is just name-calling and childish. Not very respectable.
The guys that are considered the Gods of IM right now would make for interesting reading. However, unlike Ray, none of these guys have killed people, so it’s not as easy.
The so-called Gods of IM have no dirt on them like Ray does. Eben Pagan, Dan Kennedy, Jeff Walker, the rest of those guys… They’re just guys that crafted emotionally moving content that caused people to voluntarily give them their money.
What do you propose we do about this? Set up a government agency to check for emotionally provocative sales content? Burn all of the sales and influence books?
Sorry, but VoR makes a point, and it disgusts me that this place has turned into a one of those completely one-sided social centers with ZERO OBJECTIVITY.
It’s like you people read that and said “Salty wouldn’t agree with that so I’m going to thumbs him down”.
Bad form people, bad form.
LOSER!! ::   -10
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm
And I’ll probably get a bunch of thumbs down too for “taking his side”.
But, if you all let this place degenerate into that atmosphere, you become no better than those “scammers” who delete comments and instantly have all of their followers bash anyone who comes to the table with opposing arguments.
VoR is not some stupid kid just calling names. If you cannot see by his writing and post history on here that he is an intelligent person with valuable knowledge of the “industry”, then you are being naive.
It is at that point when objectivity and welcome arguments are thwarted and lost, that any social interaction no longer is of value in itself. Debate him. Let him debate you.
EXCHANGE VIEWS.
Otherwise, it degenerates to some kind of sporting event, where there’s a bunch of fans on both sides rooting for their team, just because it’s their team, and they don’t want to know anything else.
It’s very low, and I’m certain it’s already cost Salty quite a few previous readers.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +1
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Voice of Reason might have something of intelligence to offer but do we ever hear it?
So far it has been bullying, boasting and bluster from the VOR as he has tried to prove himself the greatest by sneering at all others.
I’d like to hear an intelligent offering from VOR.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Neil Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:46 pm
“WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS…” etc
“which is just name-calling and childish. Not very respectable.”
Don’t call people names, it’s not kind, as you already pointed out. Cock.
Anyway, the “comment hidden” feature is like a wet paint sign. I for one can’t help but touch the bench to see if it really is still wet.
Click here to see………..oh, ok then!
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
There’s a difference between a commenter having one instance of name-calling, and the main blog writers articles just endlessly being one of two things:
1.) James Arthur Ray’s story which is all facts
and
2.) All of the other scam guys which haven’t killed anyone, in which case it’s all just childish rants with 50 million name-calling instances of “douchebag” or whatever word you want.
VOR is right. This place is turning into TMZ. You people just want shit talking.
Why do you think he hasn’t posted any strong attacks on Eben Pagan, Jeff Walker, Dan Kennedy, etc…?
Every thing he says about those guys is just childish bullshit name calling. Debbie “its a girl” DeAngelo.
Salty won’t find shit on any of those guys, so I have no idea why he bothered to put them in his “who should I go after next” poll.
Unless he just intends to make a post called “double your douching” and exercise his name calling skills.
LOSER!! ::   -7
[Reply]

Detached observer Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:18 pm
I disagree with you. It goes much deeper than attacking James Ray. Your focus may be on other men that are along the same line as James Ray, but you are obviously more geared towards them. Internet marketing for the most part is a foreign language to most people. I don’t find posts on those guys very interesting, but that is my opinion. VOR isn’t making any point at all, its just his personal opinion on the subject. I mean equating shooting down planes to exposing James Ray in a blog? C’mon.
You two are assuming that everyone who reads this blog is like you. Most people don’t know who Pagan or the others are. Hell most people probably know him as David D’Angelo, Mr. “Attraction is not a choice,” and don’t know his real name.
Those guys only affect people who seek out information in that particular field. They aren’t inviting them into the door of death. Ray’s transgressions on the other hand are allowing people to see deeper into not only Ray’s shady dealings and his past, but into the self-help industry as a whole. Which goes way beyond internet marketing. He is the lousy, violent, well-known, narcissistic, clumsy gatekeeper to the secrets and what he has done is allowed people to enlighten themselves through searching deeper into what is really going on. You see the attacks upon James Ray aren’t beating a dead horse. To me and others, it is allowing us to shine a much needed light on a much contested subject that goes very deep, polarizes the masses and affects millions of people every single day.
So ya, your group of “insiders” may be offended that the focus is still on Ray, but the rest of us are glad this is finally coming to light and we aren’t willing to dismiss what went on, the more anger and outrage the better (at least for me). This long overdue comeuppance that is bearing down on James Ray is what is nourishing us and cleansing our souls. Those others guys will have their day but for now, they have to wait.
Of course this is just my opinion.
WINNER!! ::   +22
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:06 pm
I for one appreciate Mr. Salty’s ongoing coverage very much.
I don’t think it’s just about shooting “kamazis”, as you call them–you might want to check your spelling–it’s about processing a lengthy event.
I never heard of James Ray before October, 2009, but this tragedy has impacted me in a number of ways. As the story unfolds, I process what I learn, and I apply that knowledge to my own life.
I am nowhere near being tired of this story, and I am a third-party observer. Imagine how long it will take victims and families of victims to process this life-changing experience.
This is cheaper than therapy, and a hell of a lot more entertaining.
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

colleens brother in law Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:30 pm
AMEN… we didn’t know who james ray was until the day after colleen killed herself….this piece of crap told her, and I’m sure all the others, to eliminate your old ways of thinking, and keep negative people out of you life….Negative people being of course your family who loves you and is concerned for you…I hope this piece of human debris rots in jail…….
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

anon Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
that is exactly what David Schirmer teaches people in his life success seminars “to keep away from negative people” and I have a MAJOR problem with that level of thinking. My first question is WHY? Because it might just show up the TRUTH about a lot of these guys. They just want to suppress the bad stuff which is what pulls them into line. I for one will NEVER BE SUPPRESSING THE SHIT THAT I WAS TOLD.
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:17 pm
You know what I have very little interest in? Your fucking opinions about what I should or shouldn’t be writing about.
Maybe some people are bored of the James Ray story. Fine. Go read People Magazine. Why should I care? What have you bitches done for me lately? Exactly. So mosey on along … I think I’ll manage to survive without you.
@VOR isn’t bored of James Ray :: he just talks shit about whatever I write about because he’s a sad little boy who is short on attention. Click on his IP on the admin panel and you’ll see him whining about 100% the topics. The only thing that would satisfy him is if I devoted myself to writing about him … but I don’t care about him.
[Reply]

Duff Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Is VOR perhaps one of James Arthur Ray’s marketing buddies? Perhaps that’s why he’d like the “heat” put on someone else.
  +2
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:44 pm
@VoR and HRM – I’m sure you’d be singing a different tune if James Ray’s careless, reckless behavior led to your mother’s death. We’re not going to stop until justice is served, so get used to it or read different articles. Keep up the great work SD, thank you!
WINNER!! ::   +21
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:23 pm
To Bryan:
I think these posters are approaching the subject from an entertainment standpoint and lack the empathy to grasp the gravity of the situation.
Perhaps if they could shift their focus to realize that this could have happened to ANYONE, they might feel differently about moving on from “old news.”
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Another few reasons we’re not stopping: The whitepapers, JR’s lawyers, Megan and Josh Fredrickson. Almost everything they’ve said contradicts what the witnesses have been saying and what I’ve experienced first-hand.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
To Bryan:
VOR must have a short attention span. This case is just getting started. Hopefully, everything that Mr. Salty writes helps to get the scales of justice tipping in the right direction.
Before the internet, James Ray might have had a chance of getting away with this. Now, not so much.
One poster said something about how we just wanted to “talk shit,” or something to that effect.
I don’t see it that way. Of course there’s a vicarious thrill in seeing this scumbag arrested, but you and the other victims are just starting down your long road to justice.
  +4
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 1:27 pm

the voice of reason said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Just think about it…are you trying to be another CNN? Or something truly different? Fucking move on. These Ray posts are idiotic, now. They serve no purpose.
LOSER!! ::   -25
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:41 pm
I disagree 100%. Why would Mr. Salty be attempting to compete with CNN? The Droid has his own unique “flavor,” which I like, although I will admit that it is an acquired taste.
And as for the reasons that these posts DO serve a purpose, please refer above to the excellent post written by Detached Observer. I attempted to say the same thing in my own post, however, DO is far more articulate.
  +6
[Reply]

208-577-6210 Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Actually if this were CNN all the previous JAR articles would have been titled:
“James goes 3 for 3, and so can you!”
Salty asks James, in an exclusive interview: “Are you the greatest genius the world has ever seen, or are you just the most exceptional teacher?”
“You’re doing FREE entry-level workshops?! Wow, how generous! Where can we find out more?”
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 1:29 pm

Ray said:
Ray is not out yet. Ray has a few tricks yet.
Ray hopes to get out on a small bail, create uncertainty and doubt, then get back to work.
  0
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:01 pm
No, Death Ray doesn’t hope, he asks the blue genie or Cartman’s Universal Mine, both of which have their own ironic way of delivering karmic justice.
  +5
[Reply]

anon for this one Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
He wants to get back to work before the creation of doubt…but I rather doubt that Ray has taken into consideration that he might be, uh, haunted if he and his dog’n'pony show were to appear around the country. One protestor with a sign about some aspect or another of Ray’s murderous operation stationed outside a Ray venue could really make life difficult for Ray.
I’d make it a personal point to show up with a sign if Ray were to appear within 150 miles of my current location.
  +6
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 2:10 pm

Julie said:
Bravo! One of the funniest posts in awhile — I laughed out loud numerous times. (Though the Moobs images nearly caused me to lose my lunch. I was expecting you to link to Belcher….which, come to think of it, might also have caused lunch loss.)
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 3:07 pm

Tiga said:
TMZ.com “Bringing buoyancy to turds since 2005″
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 5:51 pm

TSarten said:
Looks like the Shore family will be represented at the court. I am happy to see this development.
We all make snarky remarks about James Ray (and he deserves every single one of them) but I also want to remember that people’s lives have been irreversibly harmed by this egomanic, pseudo-shaman, asshole.
Good reading here::Prescott News
I have used the double colon, I wonder if I will get booted for copyright infringement? ::
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 5:59 pm

AnnAustin said:
Similar to Hippo’s being unaware of Ray before October 2009, I was only vaguely aware of Ray and “The Secret”. I’d heard of the motivational exercise of writing a check to yourself for $1 million and thought it was stupid. I’ve heard people refer to “the Universe” in contexts that had nothing to do with astrophysics or astronomy and it annoyed me. My favorite example was when an acquaintance with whom I share some friends said “The Universe quit my job for me.” After which point she sold her house, changed her name to something flaky and moved away. I wonder how that’s working out. I don’t pay attention to Oprah or any of the other crap media that featured Ray and the other jackasses from “The Secret”. Like Froylein said a few days ago, I don’t have anything in this race. This story did catch my attention though because of Sedona and a number of trips there in the past which were mostly about the hiking and relaxing. VoR and HRM are free to read whatever they want and clearly, Salty is free to write whatever he wants. I say continue to let the sun shine on this, dig for the history. James Ray is only in jail. This is far from finished, especially for anyone who really has a stake in it.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:14 pm
To AnnAustin:
I agree with you. This is not just about James Ray, this is about examining our own belief systems–do we engage in magical thinking? If so, why?
This case is teaching me a lot about how I fool myself, unwittingly, into believing things that may not be true.
This heartbreaking tragedy brings an opportunity to educate the public about scam artists. I don’t have any statistics, but I believe that the book “The Secret” was a best-seller. How many people believe that crap?
If the publicity surrounding James Ray causes even a few people to wake up and realize that this stuff DOES NOT WORK, it will be of some help.
“If you can’t set a good example, then you’ll just have to serve as a horrible warning.”
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

AnnAustin Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:15 pm
@Hippo–
Indeed. When the story first broke back in October, I couldn’t understand how this could happen to so many people described by relatives and co-workers as bright, intelligent, etc. Being a skeptic of sorts, I don’t think I would have made it past a free Ray event (supposing I even got to one in the first place). The mainstream news wasn’t providing the information I sought and google brought me here and to Cassandra Yorgey’s examiner column among other places. Given the trust built up and the manipulation and sneaky abuse Ray handed out over time, now I get it. He and others of his ilk must be stopped and if Mr. Salty’s somewhat profane ramblings and Yorgey’s sass move things along, more power to them.
“The Secret” was a bestseller to be sure, but many of those copies have been discarded. I can’t tell you how many copies of that crap I saw on the shelf at our local used book store the last time I was there. Too bad they’re not headed toward the compost pile.
  +6
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 10:10 am
Here’s what someone decided to do with those full-of-crap publications not deserving to be called books:
<>
NOTE: This was made in October. Toxicity from the tarps seems to have been ruled out as the cause of death and injury.
  0
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Oops, Let’s try that again. Instead of posting the clip, here’s the search words: Death Trap Sweat Lodge Guru James Arthor Ray Book Burning
(The misspelling is the way the youtube poster wrote it.)
  +3
[Reply]

anon Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
so well said
“If you can’t set a good example, then you’ll just have to serve as a horrible warning.”
Unfortunately the people Salty snarks about ALL come into this sadistic parasitic and evil category.
  +4
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 6:49 pm

HarmonicFraud! said:
AZCentral.com just posted an updated article about Ray’s bond hearing — complete with a brand new, seriously creepy, “Cryptkeeper”-esque photo of a very haggard Mr. Death Ray — at:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/23/20100223sweat-lodge-deaths-guru-bail.html
(The piece is entitled, “Sweat-lodge guru’s net worth said to be $2.4 mil”, and provides more details about his assets. I do have to warn that, unfortunately, there are a few brutally insensitive & ignorant comments following the article. :-(:: They’re totally inappropriate, actually; friends and family members of the victims might want to avoid reading them… :( )
At least, by the photo and such, it appears that Ray is finally beginning to pay for all of the pain that he’s inflicted on people, though. Thank you again for covering this, Salty…
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

rwr Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:04 pm
Damn. You’re not kidding about that photo of Ray.
He looks frail, hollow – like his face is melting wax.
  +6
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Wow! He DOES look like the Crypt-Keeper! Is it because he can’t get spray-tanned in prison, or because he doesn’t have his steroids?
  +6
[Reply]

rwr Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Probably lack of steroids, then lack of fake tan.
For normal people, grief could do it, but narcissistic sociopaths don’t get that.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:45 am
Crippled Inside by John Lennon, Imagine
You can shine your shoes and wear a suit
You can comb your hair and look quite cute
You can hide your face behind a smile
One thing you can’t hide
Is when you’re crippled inside
You can wear a mask and paint your face
You can call yourself the human race
You can wear a collar and a tie
One thing you can’t hide
Is when you’re crippled inside
Well now you know that your
Cat has nine lives, yeah
Nine lives to itself
You only got one
And a dog’s life ain’t fun
Mamma, take a look outside
You can go to church and sing a hymn
You can judge me by the color of my skin
You can live a lie until you die
One thing you can’t hide
Is when you’re crippled inside
Well now you know that your
Cat has nine lives, yeah
Nine lives to itself
But you only got one
And a dog’s life ain’t fun
Mamma take a look outside
You can go to church and sing a hymn
Judge me by the color of my skin
You can live a lie until you die
One thing you can’t hide
Is when you’re crippled inside
One thing you can’t hide
Is when you’re crippled inside
One thing you can’t hide
Is when you’re crippled inside
  +6
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:51 am
That song was what came to mind when I saw those horrible court pictures in spite of his wearing a shirt and jacket.
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:43 am
@JeanD. ::
Perfect!
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:20 pm
He’s getting a very “Roy Scheider on a 72 hour bender” look about him. When would now be a good time to get a spray on tan?
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Wow! He looks like he should be moved into hospice … sociopath hospice.
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 8:51 am
SD,isn’t that another name for Death Row?
  +2
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 9:21 pm

rwr said:
Here’s footage on Ray’s bail hearing from Arizona’s NBC affiliate’s evening news:
http://bit.ly/cig7s1
He’s dressed like he’s been hired to cater something – at :49 seconds you’ll see him walking, rather penguin-like, slightly favoring his left leg or foot.
The hearing resumes tomorrow. Here’s hoping someone invites the IRS CID.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:22 pm
The leg thing seems fake, like he’s presenting himself as injured for his followers. Isn’t he in solitary, though? Why would he be injured (unless the guards played “kick the guru”?
  +4
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 9:54 pm

the voice of reason said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Well, salty super-lib, I took time out of my busy day to try to give you a pointer (sure, with a two handed slap across your bitch face, but nothing worthwhile comes without a litle pain).
And, like usual, you weren’t man enough to admit you were schooled by a master. That type of pussy, “I’ll never admit I’m fucking totally wrong and have shit for brains” attitude is holding you back, super lib.
Be a man, not a skirt wearing girlie fag, and take some advice, fuckwad.
Anyway, no doubt I’ll have to lend you another hand when you post again. Don’t worry, fuck face…I’ll continue to offer up my golden advice.
LOSER!! ::   -18
[Reply]

Skippy Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:54 pm
VOR, you truly are a nut case. You are completely disregarded on a wholesale basis, and yet you continue to indulge in your own mental masturbation. I would suggest you get a life, but then, I also don’t believe in pushing people beyond their practical limits.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Name Not Important Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 9:10 am
@ VOR: Seriously, what is wrong with you? This is Salty’s blog, and he can say whatever he wants on it.
You don’t like it? Fine. Do better on your own blog.
Wait, you don’t have a blog of your own to spout off from? If not, why not? I hear you can set up a free blog at Blogger or just Google it. There a bunch of places that let you blog for free if your budget is a little sparse.
You obviously think you can do better, so go ahead and give it a try.
Otherwise, shut up. Really.
  +5
[Reply]

hrm Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Very disappointing to see you posting shit like that VoR…
You’re acting like a 12 year old.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 23 February 2010 at 11:12 pm

Yakaru said:
I’m starting to wonder about Ray’s lawyers too. That news story says they were “squabbling” (expect to see that word in the papers a lot during the trial), and statements like “he is not a wealthy man” and “this is just a laundry list for the media” hit completely the wrong note. The right note, funnily enough would be to act like a human being. But we all know why they’d find that difficult.
The way Ray looks in that photo is the way he should’ve looked on October 10 last year.
  +5
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:08 am
If he were able to feel remorse.
  +4
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:21 am
He has spent more lawyer time on trying to hide his money and getting permission to wear a suit than he has on showing any sorrow or remorse towards his many victims.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 9:35 am
He’s trying to play the victim, with the limp and slow walking, the dickhead. I predict all this fakery will finish up making him even more psychologically screwed up than he already is. He was already unable to feel normal human emotions, and now if he’s “suffering” because of being misunderstood and “badly treated” by investigators, he’s just going to become even more removed from reality.
And of course, it’s doing the job of demonstrating what a crock of shit all the teachers who teach the same message as him are pushing. Just how “Absolute” was the wealth he was teaching about in “Creating Absolute Wealth” – and how much has he made out of it? Dear old Dave Squirmer should be telling him to visualize checks being slipped under the door of his cell.
And from that photo, he doesn’t look all that “motivational” anymore either.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Yep, motivate yourself the James Ray way, straight into prison.
  +5
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 1:30 am

Dave said:
Holy crap! Death Ray looks like hell without his makeup on. Looks like all the dye has washed out of his hair too. Guess he’s not getting any Grecian Formula at Camp Verde.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

featheredfriend Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 3:00 am
Yes he looks exactly like David Schrimer did when he was caught in New Zealand by the media. Bad wrap follows you even worse than you could ever dream. Now deathray will have nowhere to hide no matter whether he gets out or not. Whats done is done.
  +5
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
JAR could always take refuge in the boys’ bathroom, like Schirmer did in Kiwiland, LOL. That video is probably long gone from the Web, but it was good for a giggle or two.
But seriously, I wouldn’t be so quick to write JAR off completely. As Steve Salerno noted in a comment on SHAMblog today, let’s see how this thing plays out. JAR still seems to have his share of followers (various starry-eyed goofballs continue to re-Tweet him on Twitter, apparently without irony), and as for his colleagues in the industry, they appear to be on standby. They seem poised to either disown him if he goes down, or rally around him if he does somehow come through this. They’re keeping all of their options open, in other words. I’ve had a half-finished blog post about this for a couple of months. Maybe I’ll finish and publish it eventually.
Equally as important, the public has a short memory. And even if JAR himself is ruined for good, which not a given at this point, another charismatic woo-ru will no doubt rise in his place. When you consider the gullibility/vulnerability factors we all share — as summarized brilliantly by “noodlebowl,” AnnAustin, and others — it seems that there’s no predictable outcome or tidy ending to this tale.
That’s why, in my opinion (and notwithstanding the admonitions of Voice of Reason et al.), Salty is providing value with his continued coverage of this topic.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Connie,
Schirmer’s graceful retreat to the mens room is back up, both on vimeo and you tube.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Barry Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Like Connie said, JAR has (and will probably always have) a following of starry eyed goofballs no matter how this plays out. There is also some element of society that sees even criminals as victims (look at all the notorious murderers who receive letters and money from strangers while in prison, or even worse, marry them by proxy).
Even if JAR is convicted and spends time in prison, he’ll still rebound and live better than most once he gets out. Some people might consider it overkill or excessive that many are harping on JAR relentlessly right now, but you have to consider the very real possibility that he’ll slip right back into his routine again.
  +5
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Yes, those females “tweeting about @JamesRay” are definitely killer-loving groupies. Who the hell supports James Ray after October 8,2009? They’re f-in’ crazy. Richard Ramirez,the Night Stalker,had chicks who religiously attended his trial and even dyed their hair to match that of his victims! I’m not one to talk about people’s looks buuuuut,I’ve been wanting to say this for a long time: Death Ray was NEVER handsome and looks like he sucks in bed,but not in a good way. :} It was an optical illusion, ladies, and gay men who adore him. See him now? Under courtroom lighting instead of subdued,colored contolled seminar lighting? Sans makeup,hair color,beauty products? That’s what he really looks like,saggy skin,sunken bloodshot eyes..BUTT UGLY!Take away steroids and supplements and add a diet of jailhouse food,Voila! a skinny,weak,decrepit,middle-aged mass murderer who does NOT deserve to ever get out of jail!
  +3
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 2:28 am

Dave said:
Well shit, sorry for the untimely post that should have been sent 3 hours ago. That’s what happens when you get caught in a time warp.
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 9:31 am
To Dave:
I love your posts, with or without the time warp.
I had also been wondering if Ray was a member of the Hair Club for Men.
If so, perhaps we’ll be treated to a parade of bizarre wigs during the trial, a la Phil Spector.
  +3
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 2:36 am

SD (author) said:
Fonseca in the Washington Post ::
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/23/AR2010022301175.html
The Post should clean up their URL’s :: it’s like the amateur hour … anywayz
“Echols examined financial documents that Ray’s attorneys provided to authorities in determining the net worth. The $2.4 million figure includes more than $500,000 in trust funds, $240,000 in retirement accounts, equity in properties and a $1.5 stock value in a company Ray created in 2009 to purchase a Beverly Hills mansion, Echols said.”
He created a shell company to buy his home? Strange. Then you can’t take the interest write off on the mortgage right? So why do that?
cont …
“Echols also testified that Ray moved around money from several bank accounts shortly after the October sweat lodge ceremony, including nearly $1 million in legal fees that Echols did not figure in to the net worth. Other financial assets could not be accounted for, he said …
A statement of net worth obtained by The Associated Press from the court shows Ray is severely in debt and worth negative $4.2 million. The document is now officially sealed.
When asked whether the document was accurate, Echols responded that it wasn’t and said Ray’s personal liabilities and assets should have been separated from those of the entities he has created.”
So the company is totally broke … massively in debt … and doomed. But he had some significant personal funds … most of which went to the lawyers. Sounds like maybe he did try to move some money around after it was too late {huge mistake!}.
Interesting. That’s just round one with the forensic accountant. If he’s hiding something … they’ll find it. If Werner Erhard had faced a tripple murder charge in a post Patriot Act world … they would have found every cent of his as well. Note to scammers: don’t kill people. You’d think that would go without saying .. but I guess not.
[Reply]

rwr Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Details of the shell company Ray used to buy the $4 million house:
QUANTUM SHIFT, INC.
Entity Number: C3187154
Date Filed: 02/03/2009
Status: ACTIVE
Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA
Entity Address: 5927 BALFOUR CT STE 104
Entity City, State, Zip: CARLSBAD CA 92008
Agent for Service of Process: JAMES A RAY
Agent Address: 5927 BALFOUR CT STE 104
Agent City, State, Zip: CARLSBAD CA 92008
  +3
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 3:06 am

rwr said:
Great point. And to quote SD’s quote from above:
“… When asked whether the document was accurate, Echols responded that it wasn’t and said Ray’s personal liabilities and assets should have been separated from those of the entities he has created.”
Doesn’t that mean that Ray ‘pierced the corporate veil,’ which destroys the protection that having separate corporate entities would have otherwise been able to provide him?
BTW, how many people form shell companies to buy their homes for them? That’s one corporate filing I’d like to see.
What an all around shitty guru. He even f’ed up the hide-the-money part.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 8:33 am

noodlebowl said:
Anne Austin wrote:
“When the story first broke back in October, I couldn’t understand how this could happen to so many people described by relatives and co-workers as bright, intelligent, etc. ”
I am sorry I cannot find the story, (maybe some of you can) but recently I saw something in the news that despite years of warning computer users to beware of spam, many people ingore warnings and some even OPEN attachments to see what will happen.
This same impulse to explore probably worked as a survival advantage when we were hunter gatherers, but its that same creative, exploratory impulse that may make bright and intelligent people seducible by profiteers who have made an evil science of *exploiting* this risk taking/curiosity factor that helped get us out of the savannas and led us around the world.
Thats why we will always need warnings and resources to assist the wounded.
What is best in us (bonding, sociability, empathy, sheer curiosity) can be exploited to lead us into wallet emptying soul destructive enterprises.
WINNER!! ::   +19
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Brilliant comment, and despite how smart any of us get we still remain vulnerable to exploitation because it goes with the territory of being human.
Anyone saying ‘it couldn’t happen to me’ is fooling themselves and probably heading for a fall—look how foolish JAR is looking now, the biter bitten.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
I agree. I follow Scientology abuses on another board. Plenty of smart, well-meaning people got sucked into that. Some of them died, too, either because CO$ drove them to suicide or because they were denied needed medical care.
The most famous CO$ death is that of Lisa MacPherson, 36, who died while under the care of Scientologists in Florida. She appears to have had some kind of psychotic break and should have been in a hospital under a doctor’s care. However, the Scientologists attempted to treat her with their “Purification Rundown,” and she wasted away in a hotel room after refusing to eat for days.
  +5
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
A woman who used to live down the street in a slumlord-owned, mouse-infested house with her 16 year old drop out son,who struggles with severe painkiller & alcohol addictions, told me her dentist father,for whom she works, spent 100,000 to send her to Florida for Scientology seminars last year! She can barely hold a conversation, yet he flew her down there to connect,invest,or whatever it is they “do”. She also mentioned how she fell ill on one trip and couldn’t bring herself to attend the meetings because they were so intense.
  +2
[Reply]

imjustjealous Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
Same goes for that Aussie idiot David Schirmer who has made so many inconceivably stupid comments about himself and his abilities its rantiliscious. I hope he comes to the US because we’ll give him a wonderful time cough cough splutter spit.
  +2
[Reply]

AnnAustin Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
@Noodlebowl–Good points. I hadn’t thought of the risk taking and ignoring warnings. I probably do that no in who I choose to trust, but in terms of solitary risk taking. Solo backpacking, solo multi-day kayak trips. I disregard a lot of the warnings people throw my direction about that stuff. Some people seek spiritual experiences bonding with others, I tend to seek it on quiet trips either with my husband or alone. One isn’t better, just different. I convince myself that I am careful, but if I’m honest about it, there are a lot of hazardous variables outside of my control.
@Jean D. that Scientology situation you describe, especially in view of the surrounding circumstances is bat-shit crazy. I sort of wonder about that woman that I mentioned where the “Universe quit her job” and she made a lot of abrupt changes. I know she had her life really shaken up before that. I will always wonder if she fell under the spell of some “self-help” charlatan. Sometimes people make radical changes all on their own, but the language used to describe her metamorphoses concerns me. Thanks too for posting the ting about the Ray book burning. That’s pretty entertaining.
  +4
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:44 pm
I’m incensed about that woman’s father squandering money on Scientology instead of helping his daughter and grandson.
How about this from today’s report in Verde Independent:
“One woman said she drove from Phoenix to support James Ray, though she had never attended a seminar.” The groupies are already starting to show up.
  +2
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 12:02 am
The problem is that Ray is able to inspire magical thinking. It’s hard for people to let go of false hope.
Even though he’s rocking the Crypt-Keeper look, he’s still got some charisma.
  +4
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 10:33 am

rwr said:
Excellent piece with full audio of yesterday’s hearing here:
http://www.prescottenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3141
Also – Death Ray named the shell company that bought his $4 million house “Quantum Shift,” (another of his Sub S corporations).
More like Quantum Sh*t.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Worst Defense EVER Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 4:06 am
Worst Defense EVER…Granted, the defense attorney wasn’t didn’t take on the best product to weave bullshit about.
  +2
[Reply]

Defense... Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 4:13 am
“You get peoples tax return voluntarily typically?”
“Not typically, no”
“You don’t in fact do you?”
“No, I get them all the time, but not typically.”
“Not typically voluntarily, correct?”
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST – WHAT A SAINT MR. RAY IS! HE GAVE HIS (SCREWED UP) TAX RETURN VOLUNTARILY! HOW INNOCENT!
You know, because innocent people read Robert Cialdini’s book called “Influence” and understand that if you set the context of a situation, it gives a higher probability of success since you FRAME the situation that way.
Oh yea, maybe if I voluntarily give my tax return (half screwed up), it’ll give my lawyer something to frame me as innocent.
Thankfully the State attorney was asking well thought through questions.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 1:04 pm

rwr said:
Article above mentions Ray’s tax return was with a declaration from Alec Smith, referred to as Ray’s accountant.
Wondering what his background is – while he’s probably ok, it’s the same question I had about Bernie Madoff’s auditor, so I’ve got to ask.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 3:25 am
@rwr ::
Actually :: I’ve been told by a reliable birdie that Alec Smith {along with not being an accountant} is a Moonie! I haven’t been able to find a link yet that would prove it … but how hilariously perfect would that be?
http://saltydroid.info/we-have-a-problem/
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Actually, Mr. Salty, that would be AWESOME.
Keep up the good work.
If nothing else, you can EMBARRASS this guy to death.
  0
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 1:27 pm

TSarten said:
In today’s hearing, Ray’s accountant said that he only netted a few hundred thousand dollars over the past four years. Maybe there is a class action suit in the wings for all the people who bought products based on the marketing claims that Ray was making millions.
These finances are one tangled mess.
  +3
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Ok, I’ll buy he’s been lying about being as wealthy as his claims, but there’s no way he hasn’t netted more than that. The royalties from “Harmonic Wealth” alone would have been more, no? They’re pushing the, “He’s broke!” thing so ridiculously far, it makes you wonder if they think they can say ANYTHING “hypnotically” and the judge (and public) will buy it.
At least he’s proven that he’s either a liar because he hasn’t earned as much as he’s claimed, or he’s a liar because he’s willing to hide it in order to cheat his way out of jail (and out of paying victims). His minions can’t deny both.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

coldhardjustice Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 1:55 am
So well said and that applies to many of these people.
  +1
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 12:36 am
The article I read said that it was likely his bail would be lowered to 1.5 million, but that Ray can only handle bail up to $600,000.
Too bad, so sad.
  +1
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 9:21 pm

this should be a warning said:
The article in the washington post says this “………. Ray’s personal liabilities and assets should have been separated from those of the entities he has created.”
This is exactly what another secret teacher has claimed every time he has been challenged about the debts he has created and the money he has apparently owed to suppliers, creditors and people in general. He claimed that he personally was not responsible for the debts but they were debts of his companies. Oh really, yes really!
These statements should serve as a serious warning to anyone considering doing business with these people. First ask, if they are not prepared to be personally responsible for the debts that they create then are their intentions from the outset highly questionable. If this is the way that the people in “the secret” act then one has to wonder what really is “THE SECRET”.
Perhaps THE SECRET it is being uncovered and it has nothing to do with the mind but its all about the WAY YOU SET YOURSELF UP FINANCIALLY?
Seeing as money, wealth and control seem to be the primary focus of most of these people it certainly makes you start asking questions. One only has to look at the cases against some of these so called Secret teachers to start asking very serious questions. Foremost in all of them are accusations of absolute greed and unfulfilled agreements and promises.
Is THE SECRET doomed to be the biggest falsehood ever perpetrated against mankind in modern times?
Maybe James Ray’s gaunt expression shows a man coming to terms with the impact of his choices.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 4:32 am
“Is THE SECRET doomed to be the biggest falsehood ever perpetrated against mankind in modern times?”
Yes. A bit like the Iraq war – nothing especially new about it, just the PR and marketing was more brazen than anything seen for a while.
“Maybe James Ray’s gaunt expression shows a man coming to terms with the impact of his choices.”
I think it shows a good bit of playing the victim + a man coming to terms with the fact that he’s been locked up. Hi attitude has always uncompromisingly been that he was absolutely entitled to take all those risks with other peoples lives and livelihoods.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 9:23 am
To Yakaru:
Agreed–not only entitled to take risks, but supremely over-confident in that he believed he could talk his way out of anything.
I really wish that Oprah had the balls to do a follow-up on “The Secret” and profile some good, ordinary people who believed in it to their detriment, as well as the fraudulent nature of its proponents.
Or she could do an entire show about James Ray and have the victims’ families on as her guests.
I hold her partially responsible for this tragedy, and it’s the least she can do.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 11:31 am
That’s the best statement I’ve heard about Oprah’s involvement in this, Hippo. Yes, she should indeed be interviewing the victims’ families. All four of them.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
@Hippo & Yakaru, It would be best to find out IF the families are willing,then demand that Oprah do it before the conviction. I hate to see her wait until he’s convicted, then try to cash in on it for sensationalism with no apology.
OMG Did anyone else see this outrageously ridiculous comment at eprescottnews?
http://www.prescottenews.com/current-news/james-a-ray
“Support for James
written by Love, February 23, 2010
He is an amazing man who has helped MILLIONS of people! This whole situation is such a terrible ACCIDENT!
James is being unfairly treated because of his business model- and not seen in the light of the work he has done for others.
He deserves our support! He is HUMAN too.
We loves you James! Stay strong!”
  +4
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
You know what? Oprah said that she had been practicing “The Secret” her entire life, she just didn’t know what it was at the time.
So it appears that she has some of her own ego tied up in this shit, and I really doubt that she will touch this subject.
I would love to be proven wrong.
  +4
[Reply]

rwr Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
“Maybe James Ray’s gaunt expression shows a man coming to terms with the impact of his choices.”
If only.
I think it’s the result of abruptly discontinuing the anti-aging injectables – the HGH, testosterone, etc., the prison pallor, and the misery of having been caught.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 11:23 am
You are right on the money (except that I doubt very highly that Ray is coming to terms with anything. Schemers don’t stop scheming overnight, and most never feel that they’re actually wrong). But yes, there are definitely Secreteers running businesses with very little overhead, because they’re choosing to not pay vendors, ripping off their followers, thinning their herds of employees. Making quick cash off of monthly stipends from people who can’t afford it, on the promise that they’re entering the ‘inner circle of enlightenment’ or some such crap. People should not have had to die in order for these things to come to light!
Maybe that wasn’t a genie in a bottle in “The Secret”. It was the mythical “Golden Douchebag” that all of these hustlers pray to.
  +1
[Reply]
# 24 February 2010 at 10:11 pm

Jamo said:
I didn’t realize Ray was homeless.
He sure has a lot of offices though. One in Beverly Hills, 2 in Las Vegas, one in Hawaii, etc.
I would like to see the IRS get a hold of this MoFo.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 25 February 2010 at 4:42 am

SD (author) said:
Bail lowered to $525,000 ::
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsYAV/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/02-25-2010%20ORDER-UNDER%20ADVISEMENT%20RULING.tif
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Here’s a pdf in case you can’t read the .tif
http://saltydroid.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Bailing-Out-a-Bastard.pdf
[Reply]
# 25 February 2010 at 5:08 pm

rwr said:
Ray’s bail was reduced, but check out this manic courtroom shot of him:
http://bit.ly/9dUmUs
  +5
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
That is unbelievable.
“James Arthur Ray looks at people in the gallery during the second day”
I know it’s a still shot and it’s unclear who he’s looking at, but the pic of him walking in with a grin on his face looks weird too. Maybe he realised he’ll be out soon. But still….
  +3
[Reply]

Jean D. Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
I told ya’ll. He’s Norman Bates!
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KMYbdNu8FOw/SnXu34lYWfI/AAAAAAAAAYA/NMH-O1L9Er8/s400/psycho+norman+bates.gif
  +4
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Can they at least freeze his assets and put a monitoring bracelet on him?
Fuck!
  +5
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 11:06 am
No kidding. He’ll be in Tijuana watching a donkey show by night’s end.
  +1
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 11:55 am
That would be great. Who’s that guy – Dog Chapman or someone, the bounty hunter. It would make excellent viewing!
  +1
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
What’s to prevent Ray from getting a fake passport and fleeing?
He is a wily individual and I am sure he has the means to do things that regular, law-abiding people have no clue about.
I understand what Mr. Salty said about him not having gazillions of dollars, but he has SOME money–what would prevent him from getting a fake passport, liquidating what he can, and fleeing somewhere that there is no extradition?
He may be putting on a brave face with this ‘tragic accident’ stuff, but deep down he knows he is guilty.
As others have mentioned, he wouldn’t be the first crazy cult leader to flee the country–Werner Erhard, Jim Jones, and that guy from “People Farm,” for starters.
  +1
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Oh, and L. Ron Hubbard–how could I forget him?
  0
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Plus he has international friends in the industry who would have a lot to lose if they’re all put under the same scrutiny he’s being put under. Why wouldn’t they help him make a ‘quantum leap’ to a safe country?
  +1
[Reply]
# 25 February 2010 at 5:44 pm

Jamo said:
I’m suprised the Judge bought the crap about his not being able to pay the 5 million.
Are there any lawyers out there who know if this is normal in this type of situation?
  +4
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
Maybe the judge didn’t buy it, but didn’t have enough compelling arguments from the prosecution.
I still think he’s a flight risk.
  +2
[Reply]

Hobbes Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
I don’t think he’s a flight risk. He’s too greedy and stupid to cross the border when he could be running so-called seminars and making $$$money$$$.
I think he believes there isn’t a case and he wants to prove that in court – and that he also believes he can’t possibly lose this trivial non-case that he shouldn’t have to care about, because he’s just *that awesome.*
And if he did win, business would pick right up again. And more people would be injured. And some might die.
The DeathGroupies are going to love him even more now.
  +6
[Reply]

Terrance Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
His starry eyed groupie core sees him as being “suppressed,” and they will stand by him no matter what. Sad, but reality. Regardless of what happens, when all is said and done, he’ll still have an income stream from that core group. Just look at some of the “disgraced preachers” who’ve rebounded over the years. Ray might never achieve the same level again, but he’ll still live the good life by most standards.
  +3
[Reply]

mirele Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 7:26 am
I wonder how much money Ray will be able to make if locals disgusted by his behavior show up at his advertised events? If he comes anywhere near Phoenix with his revived dog ‘n’ pony show, I’ll make a point of showing up.
  +3
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Well hell yes! They “manifested” this with their conference calls and their coyote-shaped crystal pendulums!
  +2
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 12:57 am
To Jamo:
I’m not a lawyer, not even close, but I am guessing that the $5 million was excessive. If this was a lower-profile case, I’m thinking that bail would have been posted immediately.
Remember that Dr. Conrad Murray had his bail set at $75,000 in the Michael Jackson case.
I KNOW it’s not the same thing, I KNOW it’s a different state, and it’s like comparing apples to oranges. But you have to admit that the contrast between the two amounts is staggering. Especially when you could argue that Dr. Murray owed a higher standard of care to his patient than James Ray did to his clients.
  +1
[Reply]
# 25 February 2010 at 6:42 pm

SD (author) said:
Wow … look at this
http://bit.ly/bVC853
Nice work Jack Kurtz! Send The Droid the funny/awesome ones that the AP won’t run … pretty please … he’s earned it.
[Reply]

Yokel Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Priceless photo! By the “Yippee!” look in James Ray’s eyes, you’d think the judge just said, “Mr. Ray, you are free to resume your sweat lodges!”
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
I guess @rwr beat me to that pic :: whatever :: that doesn’t make her better than me!
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
Mr. Salty, I had no idea you were so competitive!
  +4
[Reply]

rwr Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
Jack Kurtz does great work! He’s on Twitter @photogjack.
PS: I saw it and thought of The Droid’s charming James Ray photo album. The Droid Rocks!
  +5
[Reply]
# 25 February 2010 at 8:41 pm

SD (author) said:
@AllTheSingleLadies ::
I don’t think the bail being lowered is that big of a deal. Here is the statute that lays out the factors the judge can consider :: it’s pretty open ended.
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03967.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS
It’s strange that this part has happened at all. I expected him to walk right back out after the arrest … and $5million was a pretty big number. Bail isn’t supposed to be a sentencing :: and so far Arizona has been showing us all that they are very serious. I’m inclined to trust that system is doing its job.
Carry on.
[Reply]

Bob Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Look on the bright side. Three solid weeks in the klink has GOT to have Ray seriously rattled. Sleeping on a cot, staring at fluorescents 24/7, listening to slamming doors and street talk, and eating institutional food from a tray using only a plastic spoon…that’s an adjustment for Mr. Elite. Now that’s he’s sampled daily life in a concrete box, he’ll be thinking about it every day from now ’til the end of the trial. The pressure is on.
  +6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 3:43 am
And now that he’s out … he can catch up on some reading. {hi fuckhead! welcome back}
I hear that people have been talking about him … and about how good he looks. So strong … like an old lady dying of syphilis.
Like a goat … that’s been fucked by a cow.
Oh James I didn’t see you there … I thought that was just the giant ghost of Madona’s bra.
[Reply]
# 25 February 2010 at 9:05 pm

rwr said:
Just wondering which countries have Ayahuasca… and lack extradition treaties.
  +2
[Reply]

Jean D Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Does not leave the country include Hawaii? He has a solid fan base there.
  0
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
To Jean:
He has been ordered not to leave the State of Arizona, except to go to his California homes.
If he wants to go anywhere else, he has to get written permission.
  +1
[Reply]
# 25 February 2010 at 9:27 pm

LatestNews said:
Judge lowers bond for James Ray from $5 million to $525K
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/sedona/story/Judge-lowers-bond-for-James-Ray-from-5-million-to/WsFS6zvyGkaeY81wTW9fdw.cspx
  0
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 7:38 am

noodlebowl said:
Here is an article reportedly by a person who refers to use of Ayahuasca in France.
Here is a most interesting article. Note how the ‘guru’ and assistants reportedly behaved when people got sick, and one, the writer, reportedly passed out.
http://griess.st1.at/gsk/fecris/english%20Betrencourt.htm
rwr said:
Just wondering which countries have Ayahuasca… and lack extradition treaties.
Legally it is very, very complicated. Salty, our attorney can say more.
http://www.cas.sc.edu/socy/faculty/deflem/zextraditionency.html
“In some countries, such as Germany and France, extradition of a citizen of that country is always prohibited, although those countries will allow prosecution of their own citizens when they have committed serious crimes abroad. The political structure of countries, such as the federal structure of the United States, can bring about an additional difficulty in extradition proceedings, inasmuch as the governments of foreign nations have official relations only with federal governments, not with the governments of a country’s constituent states. It is not always clear whether an extradition agreement with the federal government is also binding to the states when a matter of state jurisdiction is involved. Also, extradition among states in a federal country is separately regulated. In the United States, interstate extradition (or rendition) is regulated by Article 4, Section 2, of the U.S. Constitution, which specifies that interstate extradition applies irrespective of the nature of the crime. ”
It is highly complex and quite difficult to extradite someone whether a US citizen from (say) Switzerland or France to United States. (Roman Polanski’s situation comes to mind) Now, it can be DONE, but the processes are of the utmost complexity.
  +1
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 9:26 am

noodlebowl said:
Steve Susoyev, in People Farm, described how in the 1970s, his terrified and increasingly alcholic cult leader fled, with his wife, to a country that did not, at that time, have an extradition treaty with the US.
There are descriptions of how they had to communicate in code and by pay phone, all very quaint by today’s high tech standards.
The leader, facing legal consequences, behaved like the Wicked Witch of the West when the bucket of water was dumped on her.
The leader’s misdeeds also hit the news exactly when the American public was horror stricken by the photo images and news coming out of Jonestown, Guyana, when Koolaid took on a new and sinister connotation.
(I was in the living room watching the news that day. Even the anchorman’s face looked frozen in shock as he read, ‘We have just received news that they are starting to commit suicide’. It was as though this experienced journalist had found himself in new and horrifying territory that was beyond his comprehension.)
The leader’s formerly magnificent public persona and gift of blarney dissolved into alchoholic paranoia and he became increasingly and childishly dependent upon his two remaining care providers–and increasingly nasty and ungrateful to them. He also became a dangerous man
because he’d charm folks into giving him hospitality and then flee, leaving them with staggering unpaid utility bills.
But, this man operated in the old and naive days. Very likely his competitors watched–and learned from X’s mistakes and how not to repeat them.
Remember, X was a physician, so he was in an occupation regulated by law. That was how he ended up in prison.
The black lesson of this was–dont get licensed. Attract devotees who are licensed health care providers and therapists and let them take the rap, if necessary.
But if one aspires to lead a human potential enterprese, cover your butt and stay in a legal grey zone where no one can get at you, by not getting
licensed and thus accountable to both law and professional standards.
No need to take mandatory continuing education classes.
No need to pay malpractice insurance.
No need to maintain records and confidentiality to a standard mandated by state law.
No need to inform your clients or patients of their rights to confidentiality and that they can choose to say no if they do not want to be recorded or filmed.
  +1
[Reply]

Feather Boa-Constricter Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Best argument for regulation in the personal development industry (and those doing it under the veil of “business growth”) I’ve seen yet.
  +1
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 9:41 am

noodlebowl said:
Final comment for today from Noodlebowl:
All this is a schematic, bare bones description of just some of the real secrets you can learn by reading People Farm by Steve Susoyev.
I did not include the colorful and highly entertaining little details the make the entire narrative come alive. For that, friends, you need to purchase and read the book.
Warning: some of the material in it is X rated.
The leader of this group hand picked his inner circle from those persons who were the most talented and…most likely to take risks.
These same persons are of the type that make the finest rescue workers, ER personnel, firefighters, disaster response workers and who go to the most dangerous and terrifying parts of the world to care for the ill and rescue the wounded and imprisoned.
In the hands of a bad leader, these same people can, through their loyality, bravery, and resilience, be led to do terrible things.
In the Middle Ages, and until the modern railroads, boys and young men with those qualities were the best candidates for admission into the Monastery of Saint Bernard, high in the Swiss Alps. The monks at this ancient monastery followed the Benedictine rule–and they developed an active ministry as search-and-rescue teams. They were the ones who went to assist and guide travellers trapped in blizzards, snowdrift and avalanches. They saw this as an application of Christs teaching, ‘whosever does this for the least of his brethren, you have done so for me.’
We want to give of the best of ourselves and become yet better.
Anyone who steps forward to offer him or herself as a leader and as a focus of such energys bears a mighty responsiblity and a burden of accountablity.
That leader if real, should never evade that accountability by deflecting it back upon ones underlings.
  0
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 3:56 am
@NoodleBowl ::
I’m going to read that. Sounds freakish
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 2:05 pm

Boba Fett said:
Well it’s official… http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/james_ray_released_022610
If he flees the country, I might be starting a bounty hunter fund.
  +5
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 26th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
It is a sad day for sure…
  +1
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 2:36 pm

SO said:
Did Ray surrender (one) of his passports BEFORE he was released, or can he do that “at his convenience?” Take little drive to Tijuana, then onto Mexico City…flight to Madrid…then final haven in France. Au revoir!
  0
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 3:08 pm

Jamo said:
Like Salty said, his release was expected.
It is clear that The state of Arizona is very serious about getting and keeping this jerk behind bars.
  0
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 4:40 pm

please said:
oh please, ray will not make himself a fugitive.
why do so many people not understand ray? he is not stupid, he is not broke, he’s going to try to fight and win. he’s a tough ruthless sob and has won round 1.
  0
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 2:52 am
I agree that Ray won’t disappear, but for different reasons.
1. It would be an admission of guilt, and guilt simply doesn’t register in that addled brain of his.
2. He doesn’t have the balls.
3. I doubt he has the cash to live for very long as a fugitive, and the only way he knows to make money involves being a highly visible loudmouth.
4. His support group beyond his family wouldn’t risk ruining themselves by channeling money to him.
5. The thumb ring brigade doesn’t have the cash to support him either.
6. He wouldn’t last a minute living on his own wits.
7. As “please” says, he probably thinks he can win.
Also, I don’t see it as a loss that he is out. It is normal for people to be released on bail unless they are dangerous. I find it remarkable that he was locked for so long.
And also don’t forget that had he initially responded to the death lodge at least partially like a human being – maybe running around panicking and crying my god what have I done – he possibly wouldn’t have been charged with anything half so serious.
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 10:14 am
To Yakaru:
I hope you’re right and that I am wrong.
I thought of another high-profile case–Ira Einhorn.
He murdered his girlfriend, was released on bail, and convinced a wealthy patron in Canada that he was being framed. She gave him money to get to Canada and then to Europe. He was on the lam for years. I don’t know how he got by, but he was successfully able to elude the authorities for years.
They let him out on bail because he was a well-known public figure with no criminal history who was not a flight risk.
  0
[Reply]
# 26 February 2010 at 4:41 pm

MLM-ish said:
SD:
What do you make of this MLM biz opp from Ray’s #1 fan & World Wealth Society member Hermia?
http://www.compassionhappens.com/pages/perfect.html
  +1
[Reply]
# 27 February 2010 at 2:24 am

MLM-ish said:
PS: Another of Hermia’s websites – is she generating leads to which she’s sending sales pitches for Secret gurus which generate affiliate commission for her?
http://time4abundance.com/Free_Resourses.html
  +1
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 2:59 am
We will see more of Madam Hernia in the coming months, I believe. She’s crowing her love for James from the rooftops and doing everything she can to slime into his social network.
Read her sweet talk to Jamie on her (still open) twitter account
http://twitter.com/HermiaNelson
(h/t Jean D)
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 4:44 am
Here are some quotes :: keeping in mind that she says she has and Econ degree from Columbia :: and an MBA from Fordham …
“Time4Abundance is a global grass root oneness initiative. We believe we are all examples of possibilities. We believe we are spiritual beings having a physical experience on earth. We believe in GOD: Giving, Oneness, Destiny, is the way for us to have more than just a physical experience in this life time. We are here to facilitate your journey in expansion of consciousness and well being in harmonizing these four intelligences – financial, physical, relational and spiritual.”
“@JamesARay Oops! powerofHub is Hermia, remember me? It has been a while since MM. my cell # 917-626-0091. Hope to see you before Peru!”
“@JamesARay Totally, how many people are died of diseases related to obesity!”
“@JamesARay Is it still uncomfortable 4u to become HUB master faculty member?? Be our speaker at HUB event to pre-sale your book in Nov 6-7.”
She sees him as a “networking” opportunity. She has a zero percent chance of succeeding in MLM.
Sorry Hermia :: might as well come back to the real world now.
[Reply]

rwr Reply:
February 28th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Craptastic!
  +2
[Reply]
# 27 February 2010 at 2:35 am

rwr said:
Apparently James Ray held a World Wealth society event in San Diego October 16-17 – days after the deadly sweat lodge.
http://www.allconferences.com/conferences/2009/20091009010210/
One attendee wrote about having returned from it.
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
February 27th, 2010 at 4:13 am
@rwr ::
Oh nice job! I know stuff about this. Some people involved desperately needed this event to happen. But others wanted out … and assumed that the thing would either be canceled our they could walk. Nope. The contracts had pretty punitive cancel provisions … and the threats were wafted. I think everyone scheduled showed … but that it was weird. I’ll bet whatever it was that the desperate so desperately needed out of it didn’t happen.
Anyone else know anything?
That copy is just bizarre … and loaded.
****
James Arthur Ray’s World Wealth Society Seminar is an event you can’t miss. It is a gathering of the world’s greatest minds and top achievers to share ideas on how to succeed in whatever circumstances our world is experiencing today. This is a breakthrough event wherein you will gain the understanding on how to alleviate your status in five key areas in life – relationships, finances, health, business and spirituality. Plus, you will go home with a complete understanding on how to start the change you want to become despite whatever situation you are in. Register now for the World Wealth Society Seminar in the beautiful San Diego, California this coming October 16-17, 2009. Register today!
James Arthur Ray has created this seminar to bring the world’s best visionaries to share their ideas, concepts and topics to a room full of harmonic-wealthy minded people so that you too can learn and be enlightened as well. The people to watch out for in this event are those that had mastered living a harmonically wealthy life. There you will find great insights from financial expert Jim Hansberger, visionary world expert Gregg Braden, world luminary Dr. Ervin Laszlo, marketing genius Brad Antin, and top body transformation expert Valerie Waters.
This is just taste of what you will experience at the World Wealth Society Event:
• How to take immediate control of your finances and have absolute confidence that you can survive- in fact profit and thrive- no matter what the economy throws at you.
• Specific inside secrets that will help you finally become financially independent.
• Easy strategies to manage your investments so that you can simply sit back and watch them grow and flourish like never before.
• How to develop insights and attitudes that will let you beat the pros every time.
• The critical shifts in consciousness that you must make to thrive in a new world—and exactly how to make them.
• How to gain everything you want for your future as well as future generations—without giving up anything.
• How to feel more connected to the entire world, and all its inhabitants, to live in a state of harmony and flow, and to achieve success and fulfillment easily and elegantly.
With the top notch leaders of true harmonic wealth speaking in one place, you can’t miss this event as it can surely change your life. The ideas and concepts you will learn here are things you don’t usually learn elsewhere. Register today!
[Reply]
# 27 February 2010 at 3:21 am

Hippo said:
Rumor Rat has some of James Ray’s tweets that he sent since he got out of prison.
He sounds stark, raving mad.
Some shit about going through the darkness to get to the light–pretty unintelligible.
Rumor Rat also has a crazy-eyes interview with Ray which he gave yesterday after being released.
  0
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
February 28th, 2010 at 2:11 am
Ray looks scared shitless and parrots his attorney’s line about looking forward to his day in court. Watch for the least convincing smile ever captured on video at the end.
http://rumorrat.com/2010/02/27/james-ray-man-of-few-words/
  0
[Reply]

wondering why Reply:
February 28th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
That really is a very strange smile..
  +1
[Reply]
# 27 February 2010 at 10:43 pm

ladies said:
ladies the ray tweeting is explained by the rick ross hypnotists
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450,page=64
  0
[Reply]
# 28 February 2010 at 3:08 am
» Classless Action said:
[...] in the mud on the verge of death after the 2008 debacle.  It’s a nightmare :: it’s a fucking battleground as Lou Caci described the 2009 [...]
  0
# 9 April 2010 at 6:10 am
» Dateline :: James Arthur Ray said:
[...] Gala.  You’ll notice that he’s pictured with Hermia Nelson :: who has been discussed here previously :: and who was still supporting Death Ray long after the chips fell. The World Wealth [...]
  0
# 16 June 2010 at 5:34 am
» James Ray Trial Tweets :: March 16th said:
[...] Caci police interview transcripts :: http://saltydroid.info/of-bail-and-battlegrounds/ :: plus color commentary – Mar 16 17:19:56 [...]
  0
# 5 April 2011 at 1:12 am
» James Ray Trial Tweets :: March 16th said:
[...] Caci police interview transcripts :: http://saltydroid.info/of-bail-and-battlegrounds/ :: plus color commentary – Mar 16 17:19:56 [...]
  0
# 5 April 2011 at 1:12 am

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