43 thoughts on “Picture of Frank Kern”

    1. @SyndicateExposed, Who is Michel Fortin referring to when he says:

      “But what frightens me is that the voice of genuine scam victims are muffled by a small yet vocal minority of anti-​​marketing extremists who spew their venom senselessly”

      Well, just where else do these victims have to go? Will Michel Fortin allow them to comment on HIS blog? He’s in the internet marketing business, standing in the middle, and he’s not naming any names. What does that talking accomplish? Nice thinking out loud, but that’s all it is.

      1. @Erik,

        I was also about question Michel’s ulterior motives, if he had any. He does make some sense in some aspect.

        But again I really don’t know about his character.

        That’s why I just posted the link and announced his new post talking about the Syndicate without passing any judgement on him. I thought it maybe best to leave it for others who may have more insight.

        PS. I believe he didn’t name anybody because he could be sued for libel & slander. Especially considering that he may falsely accuse someone & his blog is a for-profit which makes a slander case more serious in court.

        1. I’m not questioning Michel’s character.

          I’m questioning his (perhaps income-driven) penchant for standing in the middle and treading water.

          To date, only one respected, mainstream IM blogger has ever taken a real stand and embraced meaningful specifics, and that would be Ryan Healy.

          Shout out: http://www.ryanhealy.com

          Everyone else: wake up, people. Quit with the dancing, and the “apologetic” mentions of Salty’s blog. Show some backbone.

      2. @Erik, you could equally have quoted this:

        “So education is powerful. And these blogs, while harsh in some cases, are vital.”

        Yep there’s some fence-sitting but the first line in the post is a link to here so I’m happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.

        1. @Mark, Yes, he did also say that, from the same fence. It’s hard to tell what he’s serving up…is it coffee with cream or cream with coffee? Maybe it doesn’t really matter when it’s mostly water anyway, and the coffee itself is generic.

          It’s no longer prizeworthy in itself just to simply link here with an ambiguous sweep of the hand any more. Salty’s blog now has momentum, and reaches a large portion of the same audience that collectively traverses other blogs.

          It’s time now for the astute to do more than toss out a begrudging link or reference: it’s time to actually acknowledge the elephant in the room and say something SPECIFIC and meaningful about why it’s there in the first place. Doing so begrudgingly or apologetically, or while attempting to “make happy” with everybody, is just lip service. It also maintains the status quo.

          1. @Erik, I appreciate your point of view. When stuff like this happens, it’s easy to be suspicious and to wish for people to take a more extremist stance on this contentious issue.

            But I’ve said this numerous times in the past. I don’t name names because it would mislead. People in this space are so desperate that, if I named guru “A” as a “bad” guy doing a certain “bad” thing, then a follower of guru “B” doing the same “bad” thing will assume their chosen guru is innoncent and they’ll ignore our warnings.

            Second, I’m in a very uncompromising position. Many of these “gurus” were once clients of ours. Now, many of them are competitors to some degree. So if I were to name names, it would put me in CONFLICT OF INTEREST. Slamming a competitor would look suspect. It could lead to legal problems, or at the very least, cause people to question our motives and disregard our warnings.

            Bottom line, I prefer to focus on what people do, not who they are.

            You said I had a “penchant for income?” How is that relevant, Erik? It’s spurious to equate the absence of names with the lack of taking a stand. And to think that it’s because of a profit motive is nonsensical.

            I’ve already committed career suicide by taking the stand I’ve taken in the last two years — at least among this circle of marketers. If you mean that not taking a stand would boost traffic to my blog for advertising revenue, don’t you think I would have more traffic if I really polarized people by naming names?

            So as you can see, your statement here is confusing.

            One final comment.

            Your response is exactly what I said in my article: some people here won’t be satisfied until they see blood. It’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.

            Again, I appreciate and understand your point of view. It is my sincere hope that you can see and appreciate mine.

            1. @Erik,

              It’s hard enough for people to “take a stand” on anything without harming their own business.

              If you say that hidden forced continuity* is bad, you don’t just anger the marketers who are doing that kind of deceptive marketing. You also anger their legions of raving fans. If you call them out by name, you get it worse.

              And it looks petty because attacking a “competitor” always does.

              Uncle Jason (the Droid) has all day to deal with comments and hate mail because he doesn’t have a business to run. Some of us have customers and clients who would prefer that we put our energy into helping them.

              *(that’s a free offer a la the Video Professor where you’re actually buying a monthly subscription but this is hidden in a lengthy “terms of service”)

            2. @Michel Fortin,

              I wish I worked for you rather than the guru that I do work for. You seem to have panache and integrity. Your post (to me) proves that.

              Thank you for coming here and posting this.

            3. @Michel Fortin,

              You’ve come quite a long way since the guru days of How to Write Profit-Pulling Copy

              For instance, your new website, with all of its menus and navigation and pages, flies in the face of the old advice (use one long scrolling page to keep readers focused/hypnotized) you gave once upon a time.

              And, your headlines these days are a far deal shorter than the ol’ hyperbolic, mostly true headlines of your yesterday.

              Hopefully you will successfully teach your new IM thinking to up and comers and veterans.

              Hopefully, more IMers undergo similar ethical metamorphoses.

            4. @Citizen, Agreed, mate. Michel has transformed himself quite a bit from the old days of hype, so maybe that will encourage others. Hopefully Michel will eventually take this newfound marketing religion all the way (products like “Marketing E.S.P.” and “The List Whisperer” and “The Success Chef” come to mind). After all, he did say people need to stop marketing magic pills. Although I kind of like “The List Whisperer,” it sounds a lot better than hard work.

            5. @Michel Fortin, I agree with you and liked your post. I was actually writing a post based on it until a back injury sidelined me this week.

              But as I wrote before in my whistelblowing post,

              http://dontstepinthepoop.com/the-virtue-of-being-a-whistle-blower

              I think pointing out the practices of bad gurus is the right thing to do in your position. And in the comment section in that same post Salty seemed to agree.

              Just keep it up. When you point out the bad practices, I am happy to turn it into satire and give people a laugh.

          2. @Erik,

            Michel and Sylvie Fortin are playing for the right team. Their products and services are some of the few that I recommend for Internet entrepreneurs on my site. They are not clients and the recommendations aren’t linked to an affiliate program. I know they’re going to deliver value to their customers.

            The Internet info product marketing community (and copywriting for that matter) is at best 2 degrees of separation. Everyone knows each other whether or not they like or trust each other.

            Let me give you an example. Guru A whines to his buddies that I’ve complained on my blog about his deceptive marketing practices selling garbage info products with hidden continuity. Those who hear Guru A’s side of the story about being the victim of a mean Internet lawyer include Gurus B through N, plus Copywriters A, B & C.

            Most of these gurus and Copywriter B are either law firm clients or customers of one of my businesses. This creates both a potential conflict of interest as things go hostile because of Guru A’s whining but also means that (like Michel), it is much simpler to condemn the deceptive practice without naming names.

            In fact, by not naming names, more than one guru who is doing the deceptive stuff thinks we’re talking about him rather than one of his buddies that’s also doing it. In other words, it applies pressure to more than one bad apple at a time.

            This isn’t maintaining the status quo. It is letting people know what’s wrong so they can identify the misconduct no matter which guru does it.

            We each work in our own way to clean up Internet marketing. And it does cost those who take a stand. But it is a price that Michel and others have paid.

            You’re free to use your own methods, including hiding in anonymity while posting here. Fair enough. Just don’t begrudge others the right to choose their own strategies and tactics.

            1. @Mike Young, Esq.,

              You said: “Everyone knows each other whether or not they like or trust each other.”

              Couldn’t agree more.

              It gets weird, too. I recently found out Guru A doesn’t like me at all, but Guru B who is friends with Guru A is still a friend of mine.

              Weird.

              Makes me even more cautious about what I say both in public and in private.

      3. Ok gentleman – Michel, Dan, Mike: All good points and eloquently stated in each of your responses. A few good sparks helps the fire start quicker, eh? :)

        This non-contest should probably have a winner, and that winner would be the author of this sentiment:

        “In fact, by not naming names, more than one guru who is doing the deceptive stuff thinks we’re talking about him rather than one of his buddies that’s also doing it. In other words, it applies pressure to more than one bad apple at a time.”

        Congratulations, Mike Young. Your prize is a PR4 link to your blog. (Looks like you’ve already claimed your prize.)

        1. This little convo went pretty well without me … I’m so proud of you ladies.

          @Michel Fortin ::

          Justice thanks you for the link and the article sir … it was important. Didn’t sound like fence sitting to me.

          @Erik ::

          It’s not really fair to compare these timid little civilians to me. I’m on a mother fucking mission … and you happen to know how hard I have to fight to keep this stupid thing alive. I’m uniquely positioned … and qualified … to handle all this trouble.

          So for the record :: I gladly accept … “what he said” mentions. Just that takes more nerve than most people have … or should be expected to exhibit.

          @Not Naming *My* Name ::

          “Uncle Jason (the Droid) has all day to deal with comments and hate mail because he doesn’t have a business to run.”

          Objection!

          Investigative creative writing is hard work … I formally request 5000% less bullshit from loser psychopaths so I can focus on my task of ruining them completely.

          @Ryan Healy

          Guru A took your money using fraud/cartel/cult tactics. You could sue him … yes you could. So maybe Guru A should watch his stupid mouth.

    1. @Luther, Hi Luther

      I’ve mostly just been looking at the picture of Frank Kern and wondering about the butterflies and if they are from the PicNik program the Robot told me about.

      Also, I was trying to understand if the comment from Frank Kern up there that said:

      “Dude, Like whats your problem?

      THIS is getting OUT OF HAND.

      Stop this shit IMMEDIATELY!”

      Was supposed to be from Frank or if it was something Frank was repeating that the FTC said to him, maybe?

      1. @Jack, I think those butterflies in Frank’s picture up there may really be a swarm of locusts. There was a movie I saw that had a swarm of locusts because of some curse. I have never seen Frank Kern in real life so maybe someone else knows if those locusts follow him around all the time or just fly out of his mouth when he is talking.

        That comment sure sounded like something Frank Kern would say though (not a lot of big words). Plus it had his name on it, so it must be him. Unless there is someone else named Frank Kern. I guess that’s possible, I ran into a man at the laundromat once who was named Justin Timberlake, not the famous accordion player but the truck driver. He gave me some extra detergent.

        1. @Luther, Actually every time I see that Frank Kern statement I have flashbacks of Bohica telling me I have some problems.

          Btw, I have continually scrolling captchas up at my site now.

          1. @Jack, I think maybe Bohica thought maybe you didn’t have problems and just felt bad about it since a lot of people do have problems, and he was trying to cheer you up by saying you did have problems. But I don’t know. He might just be crazy.

            That’s great to hear about your continually scrolling captchas on your site. That will be good exercise for anyone who visits your site. People can read your blog and lose weight at the same time. I was going to go walk around the block tomorrow (after I get back from the donut shop) but now I think I will read your blog instead.

            1. @Jack, Exactly, like the time when I was 4 years old and my Uncle Newt kicked me in the face. I felt bad until my mother told me he was only trying to keep a mosquito from biting me. Then I thanked him and he said, no problem, runt.

  1. Please also keep me out of this…I’m knee deep in my own bullshit and then I’ve got some dipshit affiliates lined up to lick my boots (again).

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    Our many starving but eager affiliates (who I affectionately call, “my bitches!”) also have some awesome bonuses, including used vinyl siding, colostomy bags, and even those hard-to-find splintery wooden spoons that are so great for disciplining children!

    Now I’m not going to use any false scarcity ploy on you, and insult your intelligence like everyone else does. But, I will tell you this: the download server is a circa 2003 computer with a hard drive that cuts out intermittently and is very quickly failing. So, if you wait past launch day, those bits and bytes will most certainly be GONE FOREVER. Other than that, NO PRESSURE!

    The launch schedule has yet to be determined, but we’re looking to have it on the week between the the FECAL FORTUNE launch and the GROW A PAIR launch, if we can get the powers of darkness to sign off on the schedule.

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  3. if you want to stop the syndicate you must stop stop the b team affiliates promoting. You see anyone promote the garbage you make fun of them, tell them to stop, send them to frank kern’s addmission so they realize that they are being used. Let them know that stompernet still owes money and jenkins doesn’t give a shit shows you what they think of the b team. Tell them if they promote they will be losers. IF you take a way the b team you take away everything.

    1. @mikefilsaimeinder, That sounds good in theory, but let’s face it, people are on the “B” team for a reason. They’re idiots.

    2. @mikefilsaimeinder ::

      Yep! It’s ALL about the b-team. Without the b-team … it’s just a bunch of big fat windbags circle jerking to the poor house.

  4. I love your blog. If your blog was a woman, I’d have sex with it. I’d fill every hole with my creamy goodness and then your blog and I would have a cigarette. Keep up the good work.

    1. @Lady Gagas Vagina ::

      Dirty!

      I like Marlboro UltraLights :: they won’t give you cancer … they are ULTRA fucking light … says so right on the packaging.

  5. Cuzzin Trey has a new product out now. I noticed during his presentation that he now has the Irwin Kern surfer hair. I couldn’t even listen to the presentation because I was laughing so hard about how all of these guys grow their hair out. Not everyone in California is a long-haired surfer dude to the out-of-staters that try and fit in.

    1. @dave, That sounds gnarley, dude. Maybe those guys bought the old stunt wigs from the “Wayne’s World” prop auction on ebay.

      I hear rumor that next season, most of the high profile launches will feature short-haired Shakespearean actors with cleft palates and polo mallets, so all the conning bitches “best be preppin” and learning to control their farts!

  6. Ryan Healy,

    I used to respect him.

    He is quite obviously using Salty Droid as a marketing angle, and is a little desperate.

    His posts promise much, but apart from a few old time marketers, he doesn’t name names or talk in any detail.

    If this level of extremism is your bag, then you would read Salty not Ryan’s weasel statements. Seriously, show me one point where he talks about Kern, Filsaime et al in name. Nope, instead he uses generalities to pedal his wares.

    Typical ‘new’ Ryan:

    It gets weird, too. I recently found out Guru A doesn’t like me at all, but Guru B who is friends with Guru A is still a friend of mine.

    Talk about vague.

    Ryan, you used to talk about relevant stuff. Interesting stuff.

    How could any modern guru not like you. Most of them have no idea who you are? You don’t ever directly criticise any modern, relevant guru (eg a syndicate member)

    Now you’ve just pegged your flag to a mast that is inflammatory, but you havn’t the guts to stick your neck out like the droid.

    Despite what you might think, none of the a list gurus take any notice of you, or have opinions of you.

    Salty, yes they do.

    You? Seriously – talk about trying to get noticed via a proxy.

    1. @BarkingMad, Chill dude. That’s just one minimal aside on THIS blog. Have you read Ryan’s own blog? It’s interesting and pretty well written. He does name specific names (that are relevant to his interests and concerns, since it’s his blog). He has brought up Kern, among others, and outed Eric Graham in broad daylight in a fascinating and eye opening public exchange. Is he just supposed to comment here anonymously, like you and me? No, I give him credit for sticking his neck out. Lighten up man.

      1. @Oldtimer,

        I used to be an avid fan. I just lost a lot of respect for him . Ryan’s blog is what I was posting about – the statement on here is just an example of how his blog has changed.

        I’m not anybody – Ryan is a giant compared to me, but I do wonder – if you all are so cynical about the big marketers, why are so many blind to the blatent ‘us versus’ them story being trotted out now by other MARKETERS.

        Bad things go on, but really – the largest problem is people who have no self control in terms of buying.

        People stop buying and the guru thing fades away.

        Having said that, I did come off a bit harsh and need to chill. Ryan isn’t a bad guy at all.

        1. @BarkingMad, I think it’s just an expectation mismatch. Plus, Ryan’s got every right to change or evolve like any of us. He also has to earn a living at the same time.

          “Us versus” can be used as a marketing strategy, but even if it is, don’t you think it’s better for disrupting things than nothing at all? People aren’t going to just take in the cautionary message, and then switch off their brains.

          They’ve still gotten a new dose of reason that they can carry with them. Plus, seriously, if you’ve read much of his blog, surely you can see that he’s shown evidence of being a consistently good guy? That’s fairly difficult to fake over an extended period of time.

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