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.nate said:
Kind of shows emotional detachment  from the events of the day doesn’t it? It would be one thing if they were doped up on sweaty balls and grampa rocks, but they were fully aware of what was going on and still remember the good times enough to brag about it. My, the power of harmonic wealth to overcome such a tragedy and remember only the good from that night is truly a great representation of the effectiveness of the program.
I bet they weren’t hoping to have these kinds of stains on those little black dresses at the end of the day.
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# 6 November 2009 at 7:54 am

Karin Hiebert said:
Buried Comment: Show
OK. So let me get A FEW THINGS straight here;
As with most all “field trips” (or homeless exercises) they had to have done a “head count” on the bus before that bus left the mall.
Was this AF Grateful guy- the witness to the death of Colleen ON the bus back? Or did he stay behind to speak with authorities about what he saw?  Which would have meant 2 people unaccounted for on the bus- or WAS he ON the BUS?
If he was on the bus- would he not have turned to his fellow attendees or to JRI Team people to talk about what he just witnessed?
Or whenever he DID see his these people- would he not be in shock and want to share the traumatic event that he witnessed?
Would ‘they” not at some point have a light bulb moment that perhaps their missing attendee might be the person who “jumped”??????? (I mean really…my first thought would be- “Wait a minute- Where is Colleen?”)
How could they not have made this connection? Or at least thought about it as a possibility that it was Colleen?
Whatever it is-the SHOW must go on- right?
They call the cell phone of the attendee which they have in their possession to say they are “wondering where she is?” they have Colleen’s cash and ID- so they must know she isn’t shopping at the mall with the intent of cabbing back or whatever…unless of course they assume that Colleen was SO GOOD at this exercise they figure she is shopping (probably for a new little black dress) and that she will make her way back on her own…
They call her phone, they KNOW -someone committed suicide -or- was pushed over the edge at the very mall they were at that day and they all partied on as though nothing was wrong?
How much of a “trance” were they in?
How much of a trance was Colleen in? As I commented on an earlier post here…in what hypnotic state was she in? How deep of a hypnotic state was she in?
Was she in so deep, that being homeless without money and shame of begging…or the realization that money sucked out of her by JRI Seminars/Events was actually making her broke in reality- so she jumped- BECAUSE she came to realize the true reality of it all?
I know for myself  how HORRIFIC and shameful bankruptcy is…and how stressful financial circumstances can lead you to thoughts of dying-even HOPING for death to not have to face the truth or face people-with what was real…
During my therapy for recovery from child abuse, there was a time when hypnosis was used among other treatments to “heal”-
I would think that if after one of my sessions I went to the nearest bridge and jumped that perhaps family and authorities might look into where I was last- who saw me last…what state of mind was I in?
I would imagine that the therapist would be one of the people who they would turn to in the investigation of my death. Suicide or not, there is an investigation…
What if my suicide came as a complete shock to family and friends because things WERE better or getting better in my life…? In fact things were better than ever?
Would the therapist be questioned? I would think so…
I am not much for watching television however I do recall watching a program (CSI-Type) where 2 people committed suicide in the exact same way, on the same bridge…
The commonality was they were both very happy people at the time, AND they were both seeing the same hypnotist/therapist or whatever at the time.
The “hypnotist” was responsible for their deaths in the end-
these weren’t considered suicides…they were “murders”
I am not saying that Colleen was intentionally murdered in this way…but what if during this trance like state someone said something as simple as “jump for joy” and Colleen heard the word jump-? Just sayin’ …
Suicide can obviously be triggered…what TRIGGERED Colleen?
What and who made her jump?
Back to the party night of this blessed event– was there not talk of the possibility that Colleen was the jumper?
Or were they all in denial of the possibility? Were they THAT unaware of the world around them?
I would tend to believe that Colleen did not jump because she couldn’t find the perfect little black dress for the party-
perhaps it was more of her feelings of failure for not being able to beg for more than a dime—and ashamed to report back to her group (or to Ray) due to her lack of “success”
she jumped for reasons that were in direct correlation with the event- something about the exercise-something said-some realization around money made her jump…something about this event was the CAUSE of her death.
and for that– JRI is responsible…she died on his watch…
WHY???
My thoughts? Colleen did not commit suicide. It only appeared that way.
 
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john graham Reply:
December 28th, 2009 at 7:29 am
welcome to our world…..we have had the same thoughts about colleens death since it happened….colleen is my sister in law. We want answers…pure and simple…we would love for this to be turned into an actual criminal investigation (which, we feel, it should be)
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Ava Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 9:16 am
@john graham, I’m so sorry. This is all so wrong. Something really should have been done by now. I’m praying an investigation is opened soon.
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# 6 November 2009 at 9:26 am

Rafael Marquez said:
Talk about douchebags, these people are sick. What kind of a douche puts together something called “Creating absolute wealth?”
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# 6 November 2009 at 9:47 am

froylein said:
Considering that it was a “Creating Absolute Wealth”-seminar, I cannot help but wonder how cheap their attitudes must have been before they entered the realm of that wealth.
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# 6 November 2009 at 10:53 am

rox said:
When I was working for a program that services young homeless adults, I found out that they used to do intensive therapy sessions. After one of those sessions a woman overdosed on drugs and died. I highly doubt that the death was highly investigated due to the womans drug addiction and homeless status. However the people running that program took complete responsibility for how the therapy may have effected her. They changed their entire program. When a client began to open up about intense trauma we directed them to look at the small picture and focus on steps to get out of homelessness instead of going into the trauma and becoming overwhelmed by the very real trauma that most people experiencing homelessness face.
A therapist or “guru” should hold themselves accountable for the outcomes of people who come to see them. People who do intense practices that revisit old traumas, open up PTSD inducing thoughts and overwhelming emotions should be held accountable for how that affects their clients. Licensed professionals CAN be held accountable and if that homeless woman had had caring family with money, you can bet the situation would have been investigated further.
James Ray went beyond trying to get people to heal. He was doing excersizes to induce manic or psychotic states in order to enhance his clients belief in him as God. And it was all just to make a profit. He obviously didn’t give a rats ass that someone died at his seminar when Colleen died, and for that matter his “concern” over the swea tlodge deaths is mostly concern over the fact that his business and reputation as “GOD” may be ruined. That is what is devastating to him.
He still, in my opinion, doesn’t give a rats ass that these people have died.
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# 6 November 2009 at 2:23 pm

I KNOW WHO THE DROID IS said:
I know who the droid is!!! http://tinyurl.com/yzwuhqo
GOTCHA NOW !!

  -3
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john graham Reply:
December 28th, 2009 at 7:32 am
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??????? GET A LIFE
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# 6 November 2009 at 2:59 pm

trance said:
they are en-trance-d.
looks like Ray is a Rasputin, using his methods to get young women to do his dirty work and take the fall for him.
  +1
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# 6 November 2009 at 3:04 pm

anonymouse said:
“A therapist or “guru” should hold themselves accountable for the outcomes of people who come to see them.”
IF ONLY!
I personally know that a lot of people would not be in the situation that they are in today if they had not been severely affected by one of these self help “gurus”.  I believe there is a place for the type of therapy that it appears that JR used and it is not with these new age, all I want to be is really rich and control everything, people.  It belongs to the professionals who are extremely respectful of other peoples emotions and lives, who are professionally trained and cannot operate without the appropriate qualifications.  People who have no interest in creating a “hype and manipulate” session, call it a seminar and put a figure on it just a dollar or two shy of a round figure is best … all very deliberate of course.
Since my experience I have long felt that these self promoted gurus should be absolutely ashamed of themselves but then I looked at one family history and discovered that these people are possibly really struggling with some serious issues deep inside themselves. It could be issues of acceptance or self worth who knows but I believe their is significant and long lasting damage being done to our world as a result of the way these people operate.
I have noticed a pattern where people who want to be a “guru” start doing things like publicly making over the top comments about their relationships with their partners, their families, their clients, they despise authority, they even despise and see no need for traditional education.  You start to question why anyone even feels the need to say such stuff let alone promote it.  They seem to find solace in “getting back” at life with heavy self promotion and trained control of other people. Suddenly someone is taking notice of them, people have to listen, finally “I” am getting noticed. And if they are questioned about things that they said or did they threaten people as a way of fighting off exposing what is behind the wall they have built up and then a very vicious cycle begins.  They suddenly feel so powerful and egotistical within themselves that they no longer care what anyone says to them, they have proved to themselves that they can be invincible and responsible to no man for no thing and they will do anything to stay in that place of control.  They have people who look up to them and thats what they have craved all along.  But they end up tripping over their own lies eventually and do things that they think are quite clever and even deceitful not realising that to the observer its all very obvious whats going on.  That is what I have personally observed and it is actually very interesting but also very sad.
Unfortunately we can’t change who they are and when they’ve been through the wash they still come out dirty so you discover that they are not the sort of people you want to have anything to do with any more.  I know people who have spent tens of thousands with these gurus who have literally thrown everything away in the trash when they discover who they have really been involved with.  History will show these apparent ”gurus” as dirty greedy people who are motivated by self gratification and control.  As a result of my experience I personally have no respect left for what they do because they are exploiting people for personal gain despite their attempts to convince the world that they only want the best for people.  I believe it is their responsibility as much it is everyones to accept and deal with the demons of the past, be adult and honest with themselves, live what they preach and be just and fair to all mankind.   Is that too much to ask from someone who wants to be known as a “mentor”.
I believe that at whatever point these people made the decision to follow the guru path they become completely blind to everyone elses emotions.  It appears to have a similar effect on them as heavy drug use. In fact alarmingly I have also discovered that one of these people has family members who are heavily involved in drug use.  Same root problem different manifestation perhaps.  When they start out they know what they are doing but eventually the drug takes over and they will draw in anyone and everyone that they possibly can to satisfy this addiction.  I actually wonder if withdrawal is ever possible.
Wouldn’t it be great if one of them showed that it was possible.  I live in hope, perhaps, perhaps not….. Whatever the result the trail of destruction that is being left behind is absolutely enormous.
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# 6 November 2009 at 3:53 pm

jojo said:
Sounds like the same person I knew.  Shameless, absolutely and totally shameless.  What a legacy.
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# 6 November 2009 at 8:59 pm

too early 4 this said:
Monsters. That is what they are. Freaks and monsters look normal and even seem to be the “epitome” of success.
  +2
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# 6 November 2009 at 9:46 pm

www.RumorRat.com said:
more on James Arthur Ray’s situation at http://www.RumorRat.com
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# 7 November 2009 at 1:30 am

anonymouse2 said:
“too early 4 this” incredible that you should mention MONSTERS, but an experience i had with one of the secret teachers I was told me to read the book “Working with Monsters”  by someone else who had a similar experience with the same person.  I read the first chapter and was aghast at just how accurate the descriptions were of the person I was once working with, once fully comitted to and once fully believing of. Now I fully understand why so many people have so many problems with these people.  I have learnt that its better to speak what you feel than suffer the vengeance and spite that these people dish out when you find out their tricks.   One of the best lessons I have EVER learnt in my entire life.  Now I want to seem them brought to justice, the sooner the better and I will never stop telling people about my experience.
  +1
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# 7 November 2009 at 3:11 am

Svengali said:
Ray is like a Svengali to young women and can get them to do anything for him.
  +1
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# 7 November 2009 at 1:55 pm

anon said:
Yes he and other secret people because they have deliberately practiced and used the techniques without any qualifications or approval of the person they are using them on.  I know I have had a similar experience and I now think people who do this for money or for self gratification are absolute low lifes.
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# 7 November 2009 at 4:13 pm

rm said:
Other secret people …

Dick Vitale … group hypnosis-marketing (pages 5-7) >> http://www.newfort.co.za/scourge/scourge.pdf
There is certainly much more out there … Proctor filed lawsuit to distance himself from Schirmer … damage control to major tom.
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# 7 November 2009 at 11:31 pm

anonymous said:
I think one wrong hand is red but thats not of much consequence. What is, is that it takes it to a whole new level when people have blood on their hands.
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# 7 November 2009 at 11:34 pm

C3PO said:
More Death Ray in the news: http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/316708
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# 8 November 2009 at 1:36 am

anon said:
Schirmer is a dickhead full stop.  He craps on like no-one knows he’s so out of pocket he’d probably nick anything and call it his.  Doesnt he have a brother or brothers in the clink  over drugs or was that for interfering with little kids.   The guy looks like he needs a bloody good diet and a sleep which makes him look like he’s on drugs too.  All to weird for me and how anyone could seriously think he could be their mentor is a crackup.  keen to see what happens with JR.
  +1
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# 8 November 2009 at 5:10 am

fifi said:
These personal development gurus admit to spending thousands on books and programs of other peoples, why?  To USE them to create their own products hoping to mimic the perceived success of a few?  Could be?
BUT …. There is a MASSIVE difference between buying and reading a book or a program for yourself and USING WHAT YOU HAVE JUST READ ON SOMEONE ELSES LIFE FOR A FEE without qualifications, without experience, without ethics, without respect, without appropriate knowledge BUT all these people being exposed have done that and they wonder why they are in serious trouble.
Am I missing something?  These people seem like psychopathic creeps to me.
Wiki definition:
Psychopathy (pronounced /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a psychological construct that describes chronic disregard for ethical principles and antisocial behavior.[3][4] Psychopaths are characterized by their shallow affect, superficial charm, manipulativeness, lack of empathy, criminal versatility, impulsiveness, irresponsibility, poor behaviour controls, and juvenile delinquency.[5] Individuals with this disorder gain satisfaction through their antisocial behavior and lack remorse for their actions.[6][7][8]
Sound familiar? But since when did qualifications matter when you are playing with peoples minds and their hard earned money?  Never it seems, until now!
  +1
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# 8 November 2009 at 2:48 pm

John said:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Whoever thought we’d allow screw balls to teach us anything.
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# 8 November 2009 at 10:41 pm

Joanna said:
Wasn’t it Theodore Roosevelt who said that “the get rich quick theory of life will be one of the things that will destroy America”
and so too for those who subscribe to it and promote it for any amount of money……
I’ll be cheering in the background as we watch these fools fall one after the other and wallow in their own self pity.  They are experts at it.
 
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# 9 November 2009 at 4:32 am
» 1:43 said:
[...] Hartle {seen here partying like it’s 1999} :: one of the senior staff members at James Ray International :: still had his Twitter account on [...]
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# 11 December 2009 at 7:51 am
Disowning James Ray #1 « Spirituality is No Excuse said:
[...] subjects he criticises. But more on that later. He also chooses to completely ignore the death of Colleen Conaway during the previous Ray seminar. Ray and his team abandoned Ms Conaway’s body and blatantly covered up their involvement in [...]
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# 14 January 2010 at 2:30 pm
Justice For Colleen « Spirituality is No Excuse said:
[...] At 8.30 pm Michele Goulet called mall security – note that at no time were participants asked if anyone had seen Colleen. Instead after talking to mall security and the medical Center she confirmed Colleen’s death. No announcement was made to participants, who were engaged in an impromtu comedy revue and party celebration. [...]
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# 17 January 2010 at 10:50 am
Who was Colleen’s Buddy? « Spirituality is No Excuse said:
[...] That her absence went unnoticed by the other 300 or so participants is understandable. Those who later found out were sickened to know that they had been partying while one of their number was lying in a cold-room identified as Jane Doe, until JRI staff member Michele Goulet left the party to begin the delicate manouvres necessary to identify the body, fabricate some evidence and return in time to enjoy the party. [...]
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# 8 February 2010 at 2:17 pm
The Immune Megan Fredrickson « Spirituality is No Excuse said:
[...] Megan Fredrickson partying after covering up the death of participant Colleen Conaway. See Salty Droid’s damning [...]
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# 11 February 2010 at 5:20 pm
Hiding Behind a Lie « Spirituality is No Excuse said:
[...] Salty Droid uncovered (and retouched) this photo of Greg Hartle and the “thumb ring brigade”  Michele Goulet and Megan Fredrickson celebrating  on the night of Colleen’s death. Participants  were told nothing. [...]
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# 8 March 2010 at 4:30 pm

AmySW said:
O. M. G.
I’ve been following the sweat lodge story closely bc I interviewed for the position of James Ray’s assistant in early 2009 (which BTW was a 24/7 job with the frigin weirdest job description and interview questions!)… I’d been out of work for 9 months and ‘Executive Assistant’ was my forte.
Low and F’ing behold, Megan is the one who interviewed me! … Is / was Michelle the assistant they hired??
Crazy … just weird wondering if I’d been offered that job … I still have the entire email exchange from Megan.
My heart really goes out to all the families involved …
  +1
[Reply]
# 30 June 2010 at 12:50 am
» Jennifer Horton Goes Down said:
[...] I wonder what she KNEW on this night? [...]
  +1
# 30 June 2010 at 4:50 am
» Colleen’s Last Day said:
[...] body was left undentified.  The scam continued without pause.  Let’s have a party. Let make pictures from the party our social media [...]
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# 25 July 2010 at 2:45 pm
The Lonesome Death of Colleen Conaway – One year on « Spirituality is No Excuse said:
[...] Greg Hartle (center) witnessed Colleen’s death and even twittered about it. (All photos via Salty Droid.) [...]
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# 28 July 2010 at 2:07 pm
» MiniMork and Mindie Kniss said:
[...] Mindie Kniss didn’t go to CAW in San Diego. Colleen went :: but she didn’t come home … she was lying dead in a morgue while Greg Hartle was alternating between doing nothing … and dancing. [...]
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# 29 December 2011 at 5:27 am

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