Confesstimonial :: Mike Koenigs Instant Enemies

Instant Scammer Repeating

I didn’t write this post :: but I made up the word “confesstimonial” {because making up words is my long tail SEO strategy} … so 100% of the internet monies from this post will go to me {or maybe to Arianna Huffington}. I plan to invest most of those monies in silver … so that’s just stacking wins on top of wins for me right there.

Confesstimonials are first hand accounts from people with direct personal knowledge of these terrible situations. They’d like to speak out and litter the internets with their own thoughts and dissents … but it’s complicated. Scammers :: it turns out … aren’t very nice people. And other media outlets :: it turns out … couldn’t give a shit.

Victims :: former employees :: associated professionals and service providers :: former perps :: current perps … whomever I decide because I’m the fake king of my own fake kindgom. The people involved … in their own voices.

More confesstimonials are coming. Got one for me? Call me :: via email … don’t call me {cause I’m too busy not taking your calls to start taking your calls}.

Today’s confesstimonial comes from a former employee of Mike Koenigs :: it’s been shortened by me because people talk too much … but otherwise …

Not me anymore in 3 … 2 … 1 …

______

 

The Illusion of Profitable Paths that turn out to be False Hope

How Mike Koenigs and Instant Customer will make Customers Instantly Broke

To all those who are persistently frustrated that very few things in this world work as we hoped.

A lot of our disillusionment is because of the misguidance of the supposedly trustworthy people we look to for guidance. These people often seem like they are successful, yet something doesn’t feel right when they seem to do things the wrong way. They’re disconnected from reality.

We are all connected and I believe it’s our responsibility to create the greatest, sustainable good (not “goods” per say) for the greatest number. This does not mean welfare, as that’s a temporary solution that undermines individual motivation to plan prudently, increase self-worth and earn sufficiently, and burdens others.

On our level, it means uncovering the keys to success, creating systems that work consistently, and making smart investments that have a very solid chance to payoff for all involved, and thus not be a burden but a blessing to society.

I felt compelled to write about Mike Koenigs’ and tie it in with his latest launch called the Instant Customer Revolution.

I feel safer to communicate about this now than when working for him or shortly after, for fear of reprisal. Fear of losing a steady paycheck creates passive conformity to what the boss says, in addition to the assumption that they know the “right thing to do”, rather than “speaking the truth to power”, since often times they don’t want to hear it to continue on their road to a dead end.

It’s unfortunate that so many people in this world are so stubborn and choose to cling to what they mistakenly feel is safe, when the safe option is often to continue to evolve to a more effective strategy based on delivering on the stated and anticipated desires of people you exist to serve.

Let’s get into some examples to make this clearer.

Intuition

When I started working with Mike and Rocket (his ex-partner), it was very clear that the systems weren’t intuitive and weren’t going to be successful.

Head tech-tard after head tech-tard, all founders, who thought they knew everything about tech and running a business got in the way of efforts to make it better for the users who were complaining about it, in their effort to make a quick-buck from it. But there’s one little equation they seemed to not analyze well enough and correct properly first:

Revenue – Cost = Profit.

Therefore, when Revenue is less than the high Cost to support the sloppy system, the Profit is negative, and the more you scale, the more you LOSE. This is why designing a system that’s so intuitive and easy to use is essential to profitability, because then it’s self-service, and easily scalable at a low marginal cost (the cost of adding more server power). Sloppy system design should not be overcompensated by an overwhelming amount of training guides either, as that disconnects the effortless user flow through the system. It should be as intuitive as possible first, and any additional info, seamlessly embedded. Instead, founders who create systems that customers don’t like tend to call them very condescending names, rather than listen with empathy and improve the system to be more aligned with their needs. They seem to point stupidity in the wrong direction.

Mike’s systems have never been intuitive and easy to use. He’s had Traffic Geyser, Mixiv, and MonsterFollowUp, now Instant Customer. He’s a self-proclaimed feature-freak. Ok, we all are to some degree, who wouldn’t want all the features that make sense in a system? Though he doesn’t like to listen to anyone else’s ideas, like the customers’ ideas, only his own. In fact, he has what seems to be a conflicting belief system. He’s publicly stated he wants to serve 1 million entrepreneurs (that’s code for “I wanna be filthy rich”). Yet he’s said privately “Don’t let the inmates (customers) run the asylum.” The idea being they’ll take over and mess up everything. That can be true to an extent, but when taken to the opposite extreme, of not wanting to take in customer feedback and constantly improve systems and processes, that’s a problem. Customers aren’t being “served” in a way that makes them happy; they merely exist to send Mike money.

Here’s how this further manifests giant-problems for him, his employees and his customers. Because he doesn’t try to make his systems intuitive, pushes everyone to pack in more and more features, and would rather make a rushed sale than sell a solid, tested proven product, those systems:

  • Can’t be used to generate value, Instantly
  • Require a tremendous amount of training videos to learn the system, which of course he’s happy to put a high-price tag on and sell to you
  • Are often hacked together in a rush to meet his deadlines and then break easily (He’s actually said “How fast could you build this if I put a gun to your head?” jokingly, but any developer knows that’s a bad idea in the long-run)
  • Turn highly intelligent people into overly humble people constantly requesting support, always well into the double digits before they actually generate any return on their investment
  • Need so much human support that the cost per customer would often exceed the revenue per customer, and customer support would be too overwhelmed to be able to do anything more proactive towards generating long-term value for Mike
  • Create problems on a massive scale when Mike and his team builds even more micro-systems like the old Facebook Page Generator to package up and sell during a launch, thus creating more faulty systems and overwhelmed support

Support was so overwhelmed after one launch that:

  • Customers didn’t get a response for WEEKS
  • Top-affiliates took hundreds of support phone calls and emails, where their line of responsibility is supposed to end with the sale
  • Mike, Rocket (his business partner) or Travis (President) didn’t even bother adding on more support staff, even though they just made millions, and staff was available and willing

Mike in his videos generally makes you believe that there is so much business waiting for you and he’s made it so easy that all you have to do is push a button, show a prospect one simple thing, and you’ll make multiples of your investment back in no time, if not, get your money back within 30 days. There’s the hope. And it’s become commonplace in Internet marketing, including in the WSO scene on the Warrior Forum.

Here’s the Reality

Now imagine you’ve “invested” $3,000 into Mike’s launch program, or any other IM launch, even $7+ in the latest and greatest WSO, and it’s one week later: his systems don’t work fully and you can’t figure out the ones that do, the training is more about Mike telling you how much value you’re getting than giving you actual value, support still hasn’t replied, you’re worried whether you’ll actually get to make a fair go of this before the 30 days are up, and before your bill collectors and significant other start to get fed up with your lack of funds due to your latest “hail mary investment.”

And oh by the way, he forgot to mention how much competition there already is in the marketplace, how unresponsive most target customers are and how little money they have, and how difficult it is to get success with most technological and marketing endeavors. So his customers’ expectations were set sky-high and now, they’re feeling seriously deflated and depressed.

Instant Customer is no different. Most customers weren’t seeing results, despite many trying many different marketing methods. Yet they’ll tell stories of the few to the contrary. How many people have you seen or heard race to whip out their mobile phone while driving in their car to text the number on the side of a van for a carpet cleaner? Needless to say, their lead flow was a drought and their return on investment was negative.

Test Results

After all of this hoopla, what has Mike or any other marketer like this accomplished? They’ve created a sea of quietly resentful customers. Those are the same customers who are often told by marketers that they “do nothing with their products” a.k.a. “it’s their fault.” I can tell you, I am NOT one of those people, I have tried a TON of supposedly successful systems, and most don’t work. They’re often conveniently missing information or critical factors that the creator had on his/her side when they generated their first taste of success, but like any good scientist knows, until that success can be replicated to account for other variables, it can’t be deemed a success until it sufficiently holds up through testing.

[Mike] has to rely on affiliates to generate sales. Not those from the Syndicate however. Ever wondered why you don’t see names like Frank Kern, Andy Jenkins, or Jeff Walker on Mike’s affiliate leaderboard? All I remember hearing Mike say about that is he has plenty of his own things to promote, so therefore no list sharing with the syndicate, and no syndicate love, despite Frank and Mike being good friends. With the remaining affiliates, he pays them 50%, of the usual $3,000 launch price. Maybe that’s why he can’t afford to hire enough support staff, developers, UI experts, and didn’t have a copywriter on staff until last year.

Conveniently Unspoken Information

Now since Mike’s systems and most IM products more often fail to generate more value than the time and money invested for the general user, not for Mike himself since he builds it for himself, his systems naturally won’t get to enjoy the same free word-of-mouth marketing and wild profitability like Steve Jobs and Apple are capable of generating. Therefore he needs to compensate for this weakness to generate more sales by using “heroes”, “all-stars”, “Internet marketing micro-celebrities” and affiliates to all speak positive praise. Who would bother to invest time and money or be given the stage to speak negatively? Everyone you see will provide motivation to buy, as it’s not profitable to tell you to not buy. I speak, because I care about speaking about the underlying truth to people who may experience, are experiencing or have experienced the same pain and frustration I have.

Here’s some of that missing information I was referring to:

  • Mike’s systems in the past have essentially sold lead generation services via video SEO, known as Traffic Geyser. Posting a video on YouTube with keywords in it doesn’t guarantee a page 1, position 1 placement, and neither does blasting out 20 of the same video to 20 different video sites. I’ve tried it many times, and it doesn’t get to the top, nor does being in any other position seem to generate any meaningful number of leads to sell and profit from.
  • Paul Colligan is infamous for confidently splurging great sounding money-making methods which actually don’t work and don’t make money… maybe that’s why Mike pays his hotel bill at events and hired him as an employee because he can’t make enough on his own?
  • The only thing the All-Stars would claim is that they’d get their clients videos on the front page, which happened, but they wouldn’t speak to how much their client actually made, only “if” they generated X number they would profit. Furthermore, the videos of one All-Star was posted in an area with very low SEO competition, like Albuquerque, New Mexico.
  • Another All-Star was sued by an SEO client because of the lack of results. Something most people aren’t told of course.
  • Another All-Star didn’t succeed even with all of Mike’s sales materials. In fact, it took this All-Star seeking out a REAL sales professional who can really sell one-on-one to actually learn how to sell. Yet Mike gets the credit for her success.
  • As a result of Mike’s systems and training not being able to generate meaningful success fast enough, and support lacking, poor helpless customers are then tempted to seek out these All-Stars for additional help and coaching, to the tune of around $500/hour.

Top affiliates have also stepped up to profit even more on their desperate situation. Just before one of Mike’s events, top affiliates and All-Stars held a sold-out event to educate their customers and at the end, sell a done-for-you + advanced education system. Out of 300 or so people in the room, everyone raise their hand to buy. Months later… this system didn’t succeed either in making its customers wealthier, just poorer and more frustrated. Their SEO tactics didn’t work, despite supposedly having a world-class SEO guy on hand, who actually has his own system to do the SEO work, which even one of the customers’ could get better SEO results faster than.

This is how customers and their cash trickle down the pyramid scheme until most go broke and few succeed.

All of Mike’s senior people have left him pretty soon after doing a lot for him. Why? He doesn’t listen to them, doesn’t pay what they’re worth, and he won’t change. As for Rocket and Mike, on the surface they would show they had love for each other, when they made money, there was a definite sense they kept their distance from each other and behind closed doors, they argued intensely about the direction of the systems and company.

Both seemed to succomb to the pressure of not having enough money, due to giving 50% away to affiliates, and $1 million+ to buy-out their former business partner, Frank Sousa. They didn’t want to raise money either to not have outside investor pressure, so they had cash flow pressure instead, which was not healthy for a sustainable business.

I too got discouraged and left and went to work at another Internet marketing company that “appeared successful” with another seriously disillusioned and stubborn CEO. Despite only having 3 customers and very little sales background, he had the bright idea for me to try to close large enterprise clients within 3 months, without starting with any solid relationships or referrals, during the holiday season, putting out proposals up to $100,000/month. Naturally none of them closed in time and the blame was placed on my “poor performance” rather than properly on his massive ignorance of the marketplace. This was later confirmed by a top insider at one of our target companies.

Since then, I’ve realized it’s far easier and more profitable to not just listen to what any supposed authority has to say. They often dispense advice that’s not consistently effective for others. It breaks the scientific standard of creating reproducible results. The smart thing to do is, do what the successful people are doing. Instead of just buying from them, become like them, by finding out the critical factors and principles that made them a success. Some of those things are timeless classics like negotiation skills, knowing from Warren Buffet that you make your money when you buy – so buy the lowest you can go, writing effective marketing copy, sales skills, and low-cost/high ROI lead generation. Make sure what you’re selling has been thoroughly tested, and you’ve factored in all the critical information and variables needed to account for different people and situations to truly take people from “where they are, to where they want to be,” effectively, effortlessly and easily.

_____

{PS … you can’t make money online.}

>> bleep bloop

280 thoughts on “Confesstimonial :: Mike Koenigs Instant Enemies”

  1. I bought Traffic Geyser and knew there was something empirically awry when there wasn’t a user forum on the site. After repeated requests for one my final response was, essentially, “Mike doesn’t want one because in the past the forum turned into a ‘bitch about the product’ page.”

    I cancelled my account shortly thereafter.

    I’m never surprised (before, during, or after) reading insider accounts such as this.

    As for siting Buffet. Well, he was as smarmy as they come in his early days in Omaha. He pitched the highest risk (a.k.a “get rich quick”) investments possible to every person he could at every possible cocktail party or family picnic he could weasel in to. The only thing that separates an early Buffet from a modern IM Guru is that Buffet wasn’t trying to teach people how to do it, he just asked you for your money and did it himself… And he DIDN’T have a money back guarantee.

    Oh, and, he was/is smart as fuck.

    Funny how that works.

    1. @GV, Excellent points. I don’t believe I recall ever seeing anywhere on these sales pitches you see all over, “Warning — there is a substantial risk, when investing in any opportunity of this nature, that you will lose all or a substantial portion of your original investment and there can be no guarantee of financial results.”

      Some put disclaimers on their sites…wherever they feel they won’t really be seen by many people. Just to placate the FTC. Unlike investment documents, though, they don’t start their freaking pitch page with the warning at the top, make it clear throughout, etc. the way I’ve seen most investment paperwork do.

      It’s a whole different ball game.

      And — like you said — Buffet turned out to be one ultra-sharp motherfucker. He’d HAVE to be, to write something like “Margaritaville!”

      1. @Head Honcho, There are disclaimers else “you’ would be able to sue them and take all their money.

        Main point: Mike is amazing and if you research or even test T.G for $1 (they are offering) you should, like I have, be able to make tens of thousands of dollars. Do it

        1. @CHUCK,

          if you research or even test T.G for $1 (they are offering) you should, like I have, be able to make tens of thousands of dollars.

          You have made “tens of thousands of dollars”? Cool. Would you care to prove it?

    2. @GV, Traffic Geyser is the very best money making online program I have ever come across. You are so bad for writing here. You got your money back yet you still knock my hero Koenigs. How dare you do that. Unlike you I persisted and it was hell for 2 months, I made my first check on month 3 at $5,000. That too was hell. On month 4, I duplicated my success from month 3 with one client, with 1 client “per week”. Within 1 year, I have made “more money” than any and all of his testimonials. But I have never gone to do a “all star” because there isn’t time nor do I want to divulge my specific methods. However, after reading this you made me so incredibly mad.

      Here ia guy offering an amazing product and you do this. Shame on you

      1. @Charles Frey, Good for you. …. I’m actually happy for you. Keep it up. If its working for you then keep going and quit wasting your time reading this site and responding to posts such as mine. I’ve got the time to do so, and, if you’re so successful I can’t, for the life of me, see where you do indeed have time to read AND respond.

        “Hell” for an entire two months huh? How in the earth did you ever persevere? Two whole months? Wow!

        Come to me with your feathers a flutter after you’ve:
        1. Started a business you had a passion for but no real clue as to how to make it a success.
        2. Scrape, hustle, and eek out a living for the better part of ten years years still driven by that initial passion. Reinvesting as much as you could (after paying expenses) to make yourself, your business, your teams, your systems, your family, and your clients better/happier.
        3. Take calculated risks, win some, lose some.
        4. Hear “no” in some way shape or form at least 100,000 times.
        5. Hear “yes” only a couple of thousand times.
        6. Fend off much better funded competition. (Better funded, not smarter.)
        7. Crush your competition because you’re smarter.
        8. Sell your business to your largest competitor for a very large undisclosed amount of cash and lifetime “benefits”.
        9. Raise several children.
        10. Maintain a loving relationship with your spouse (together 20 years).
        11. Donate your time and treasure to causes you deem worthy with no tangible (fungible) ROI.
        12. Travel the world with family.

        … So when you’ve done all of that then please, by all accounts, come at me like a Peacock because then, and only then will I have full respect for you and your abilities.

        Oh, Koenigs is your “hero”? Come on man! Really? Right now I’d expect the only “hero” in your life is the one staring back at you in the mirror.

        Sorry, I could go on but I have to start planning day trips for our two week vacation coming up!

        And, finally, exactly, in my post did I say I got my money back?

        Good luck!

        1. @Gv, MY WRITING IS IN BOLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM YOUR POINTS. I AM NOT SHOUTING.

          Good for you. …. I’m actually happy for you. Keep it up.

          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MUCH APPRECIATED.

          If its working for you then keep going and quit wasting your time reading this site and responding to posts such as mine.

          ITS NOT A WASTE OF MY TIME AT ALL. I HAVE A SIDE TO ME THAT LOVES TO DEFEND THE INNOCENT (MIKE KOENIGS, FRANK KERN AND GURUS) . IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A SUPER HERO.

          I’ve got the time to do so, and, if you’re so successful I can’t, for the life of me, see where you do indeed have time to read and respond.

          “Hell” for an entire two months huh? How in the earth did you ever persevere? Two whole months? Wow!

          Come to me with your feathers a flutter after you’ve:
          1. Started a business you had a passion for but no real clue as to how to make it a success.

          GURUS WILL SHOW YOU HOW TO START YOUR BUSINESS, GROW IT, MAKE MONEY WITH IT

          2. Scrape, hustle, and eek out a living for the better part of ten years years still driven by that initial passion. Reinvesting as much as you could (after paying expenses) to make yourself, your business, your teams, your systems, your family, and your clients better/happier.

          GURUS WILL SHOW YOU HOW TO MAKE THE MONEY WITHIN 30 DAYS. HECK IF YOU DON’T YOU CAN GET A REFUND BUT FOLLOW THEIR FAST-TRAK PORTION OF COURSES AND GET A R.O.I

          3. Take calculated risks, win some, lose some.

          YES, AGREED.

          4. Hear “no” in some way shape or form at least 100,000 times.

          YES, AGREED. WITH ONLINE, YOU DON;T EVEN HAVE TO HEAR THE “NO”. USING GURU WAYS, ONLY 7 OUT OF 10 “NOs”.

          5. Hear “yes” only a couple of thousand times.

          6. Fend off much better funded competition. (Better funded, not smarter.)

          USING GURU WAYS, DON’T WORRY ABOUT COMPETITION, DO YOUR OWN THING

          7. Crush your competition because you’re smarter.

          USING GURU WAYS, DON’T WORRY ABOUT COMPETITION, DO YOUR OWN THING

          8. Sell your business to your largest competitor for a very large undisclosed amount of cash and lifetime “benefits”.

          GOOD IDEA

          9. Raise several children.
          10. Maintain a loving relationship with your spouse (together 20 years).

          FORGET THE 20 YEARS. WHERE DO YOU PULL THAT OUT OF ? SEVEN YEARS AND THEN FIND ANOTHER ONE. GET A PRENUP . OR DON’T GET MARRIED, JUST ENJOY MONEY AND THE JOYS OF MANY LADIES.

          11. Donate your time and treasure to causes you deem worthy with no tangible (fungible) ROI.

          NEVER EVER EVER NEVER DONATE A PENNY. TAXATION OF YOUR PROFITS IS SUFFICIENT DONATION TO THE NATION.

          12. Travel the world with family.

          YOUR CHOICE TO TRAVEL. OKAY.

          … So when you’ve done all of that then please, by all accounts, come at me like a Peacock because then, and only then will I have full respect for you and your abilities.

          Oh, Koenigs is your “hero”? Come on man! Really? Right now I’d expect the only “hero” in your life is the one staring back at you in the mirror.

          KOENIGS IS A REAL LIFE HERO. I LOVE MYSELF TOO BUT KOENIGS IS REALLY “DA MAN”

          Sorry, I could go on but I have to start planning day trips for our two week vacation coming up!

          FORGET DAY TRIPS, NIGHT TRIPS, JOBS ETC. GET KOENIGS, USE HIS STUFF. MAKE MONEY. ENJOY THE JOYS OF LIFE (WOMEN)

          And, finally, exactly, in my post did I say I got my money back?

          WHAT FOR? TO CHEAT PEOPLE? THEN ALL THOSE DREAMS YOU PUT ABOVE: YOU’LL N-E-V-E-R END UP HAVING THEM EXCEPT THROUGH A JOB [EARNINGS]

          Good luck!

            1. @Wyrd, You can prove it yourself “because” every single one of them give away extremely valuable information for ‘free” . You can even use that ‘free’ information to make money first and then if you are seeing cash-flow then get the entire course.

              Example: Does Mike Koenigs enable you to rapidly do a opt-in press? Yes.

              Can you do this in other ways ? Yes too, but he streamlines everything on his site and provides detailed training on how to work it.

              Can you find this stuff for free? Yes. Just like you can learn HARVARD LAW FOR FREE (law is public domain) and you can learn MBA stuff for free withOUT attending HARVARD, BUT for me: give me Harvard anyday. In analogy give me MIKE KOENIGS anyday.

              Can you upload your video individually to many sites in order to get it highly ranked? Yes

              But I choose to pay all my money to Mike Koenigs’ site: so it does it “automatically” for me, saving me tons of time (and don’t forget the vast training videos library he has got).

              Does Mike make it easier ? YES.
              Will it take TIME AND EFFORT? Yes, lots of time and effort – but a lot less than reinventing the wheel. The same with going to Harvard MBA OR Harvard Law: you WON’T automatically know it, you will not automatically become a millionaire.

              But if you apply it , get the best grades, get into a good law firm or corporation and work very hard [10 hours a day] then you will become a millionaire.

              This is the same with Mike Koenigs: you have to work it. With any and all methods.

              YOU can choose to do GOOGLE ADS by yourself OR use guru methods and teachings , insights an learnings.

              YOU can choose to do YOUTUBE marketing by yourself or use Jeff Johnson.

              You can even take out a flip cam and do your own material OR LEARN HOW TO DO IT WELL IN A PRODUCT LAUNCH with JEFF WALKER.

              I recommend get all the gurus. But its your choice. MAIN POINT : if you choose NOT to get the gurus OR not go to Harvard – then stop blaming the gurus for teaching you the very best knowledge on earth .

              They DON’T have to give anything away for free: but they ALL have lots of valuable complimentary videos so you test them out: their speaking, method of delivery, knowledge and person. Same as Harvard but gurus are way cheaper and way better and all self made milionaires.

              This is America – where you can do it , not SOVIET where you complain against entrepreneurial teachers: the gurus like Mike

            2. @Chuck,

              I would please like you to answer The Droid’s question/assertion:

              @Chuck: are you Chuck Frey?

            3. @Chuck ::

              Why do you type in ALL CAPS making the same baseless arguments when you could quiet everyone down here in 2 – 3 simple sentences.

              Here are your options for successful trolling (/ proof that you are not full of the shit you are obviously brimming with):

              #1 – Post links to your URL(s) where you claim to be making money.

              #2 – Post a redacted version of your 2010 or 2011 Federal Tax Return (leave the name & income amts only).

              #3 – Post redacted bank records – screenshot or scan – with your financial info (removing all sensitive information).

              #4 – Post links to *verifiable* 3rd parties who we can *individually* contact to vet your claims.

              You can do literally only one of those things … and save yourself from typing the thousands and THOUSANDS OF WORD written in ALL CAPS about RANDOM BULLSHIT.

              My educated guess: your mere demeanor & typing skills impress upon me that you are absolutely not successful in business or life.

              Burden of proof is on you to show otherwise. I can’t believe how late to the troll party you are here … I haven’t even commented in ages because @SD has pretty much demolished these IM Syndicate scammers.

              Good luck bringing some proof.

          1. @Chuck Frey ::

            You’ve come back to troll these same comments like a year later? Don’t feel that you adequately achieved your trolling objectives last year?

            That doesn’t seem too healthy to me.

            Is this you Chuck?

            http://youtu.be/H-8hqpuVu_Q

            That dude doesn’t sound like the quivering mass of spastic that you’re displaying here :: but I don’t see any other Chuck Frey’s you could be.

            Problem is your comments are coming from San Diego where Koenigs lives :: but Chuck Frey lives in Milwaukee … so it’s curious.

            Last time you were here trolling you said this …

            He has made me ANGRY because he would not give me a discount to do my video (he wants $120,000). But I did it and have made $236,324 profits in one year (this is not Traffic Geyser, with that I have made over $1million, but this is another related product) where I teach people to stop smoking. Mike filmed me and made the product in 2 days and I use his Traffic Geyser platform to sell it , but I use that to sell my services to people too

            Show me that video :: or show me the sites that you made millions of dollars with using Traffic Geyser. Surely you won’t try to tell The Salty Droid that these are million dollar sites …

            http://mindmappingsoftwareblog.com/
            http://upyourimpact.com/booksummary/

            If you can’t show me :: then shut the fuck up already … liar.

            And if you’re not Chuck Frey … then I’ll delete every comment you’ve left … using someone else’s real name to troll won’t be tolerated.

            1. @SD, HOW DARE YOU BRING ME PERSONALLY INTO THE ARGUMENT. THIS IS NOT ABOUT “ME”.

              THIS IS ABOUT THE GURUS LIKE MIKE (THAT HAVE HELPED ME CREATE OVER A MILLION DOLLARS TO DATE – JEZUZ – I PAID YOUR ROADS, SCHOOLS AND SO MUCH MORE THROUGH TAXATION, THE DEADLINE FOR THAT WAS A COUPLE OF DAYS BACK). THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME.

              LET’S FOCUS ON THE GURUS: MIKE KOENIGS AND OTHERS. THEY ARE AMAZING.

              I DO NOT MEAN TO COME ACROSS AS STRONG HERE BUT YOU ATTACKED MY HEROS FIRST SO I AM ATTACKING BACK HARD.

              [APOLOGIES FOR LARGE TYPE, FORGET TO TURN IT OFF]

  2. Newbies who like to tell us about them being interesting dream about how mich money they can go about making at this internet…

    1. @Jack,

      {me} clicks on “More info”… Oh! So that’s your full name. Things make more sense now. ;-)

      1. @Wyrd :: Haven’t you ever clicked thru on @Jack’s name to visit his site?

        I would say @Jack’s interaction with the friendly commenters on his about page (like “mcdonalds breakfast” and “buy cheap Tegretrol”) are some of the most hilarious internets interactions ever!

        1. @Doctor Mario,

          At some point I probably did, but it must not have stuck.

          (And the empty post I made just above this one, that was a goof too.)

    2. @Jack ::

      Nice!

      The world is saved … now Mike Dillard can take all of his money out of silver and gold.

  3. Your average IM newbie doesn’t understand how difficult it is to drive traffic.

    There are no free sources of high quality traffic. It’s a myth. Yes, you may be able to drive a decent number of eyeballs to your site, but it takes a lot of hard work, creativity and luck. And even then they still aren’t likely to be buyers.

    Almost all high quality traffic must be BOUGHT. And that takes a lot of expensive research. The average person doesn’t have the resources or knowledge to pull this off and the people who are experts in it DON’T SHARE.

    Oh, and whatever Buffett once was, he is now nothing more than a crony capitalist who uses his powerful connections in government to cripple his competition with regulation while carving out special exemptions for himself. Don’t buy into the myth of honest ‘ol Uncle Warren. He’s a goddamned vulture.

    1. @Mad Max, THAT’S YOUR FALSE BELIEF . IF ANY “ONE” IS DRIVING TRAFFIC THEN THEY ARE DOING IT USING A “METHOD”. THE METHOD CAN BE MODELLED BY ANY OTHER PERSON – INCLUDING THE “NEW BIE”.

      MOST IMPORTANTLY, MIKE KOENIGS AND THE GURUS ADVICE THE FOUR HOUR WORK WEEK: OUTSOURCE ALL THAT AND EARN.

      1. @CHUCK,

        You assert that @Mad Max has a “FALSE BELIEF”. But you haven’t proven that his belief is false. You haven’t even tried. You just said/claimed/asserted taht his belief is false. That doesn’t prove anything.

        1. @Wyrd, Good point you make.

          1. Max Max says “Almost all high quality traffic must be BOUGHT. And that takes a lot of expensive research. The average person doesn’t have the resources or knowledge to pull this off and the people who are experts in it DON’T SHARE.”

          Then go ahead Mad Max : you seem to know the “secret sauce” you share. You have not. It is a “Straw man” argument: where Mad Max makes something up and appears to know more – but what? He doesn’t state.

          2. Look at the “contradiction” made my Max here “There are no free sources of high quality traffic. It’s a myth. Yes, you may be able to drive a decent number of eyeballs to your site…”

          He contradicts his proposition.

          3. Max implies but doesn’t state what the GURUS WILL TEACH YOU: the key to money is

          Traffic + PLUS + Conversation strategies.

          4. HOW TO GET TRAFFIC ? How to get pre-qualified traffic? GOOGLE ADWORDS won’t charge ya a dime unless people click is one way. BANNER ADS are another way.

          Off line marketing with online is a VERY POWERFUL WAY THAT GURU MIKE KOENIGS teaches in his cross channel mojo . Get Mike Koenigs’ courses, get them all and study them. Use them and you too will become filthy friggin’ rich .

          1. @Chuck,

            Mad Max’s statement doesn’t imply that he has the “secret”. He merely states that those that do have the special secret don’t share it.

            I would be more of the opinion that there isn’t any The Secret anyway. Unless you were wondering about the secret of how to convince people to enter a sweat lodge with you and die of heat stroke. There’s a great guru for that–James Arthur Ray.

            ——

            Off line marketing with online is a VERY POWERFUL WAY THAT GURU MIKE KOENIGS teaches in his cross channel mojo . . . . Use them and you too will become filthy friggin’ rich .

            You need to come out of delusion land sometime. Yours or anyone elses odds of becoming “filty friggin’ rich” as a direct result of following Mke Koenigs awesome wisdom are roughly the same to that of people that buy lottery tickets.

            That’s because, unless you actually have an actual product or service to sell people, then all the marketing in the world isn’t going to amount to anything.

            Oh, unless, except, of course if you go the route of taking general purpose marketing tips plus a grab-bag of works-temporarily web tricks and package it up as if it’s the Most Perfect Turnkey solution to marketing.

            1. @Wyrd, MY WRITING IS IN BOLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM YOURS. I AM NOT SHOUTING.

              Mad Max’s statement doesn’t imply that he has the “secret”. He merely states that those that do have the special secret don’t share it.

              MY POINTS IS AND WERE ALWAYS THIS:

              I] EVERYTHING EVERY GURU TEACHES IS ALREADY OUT THERE. BUT TO FIND THE RIGHT SOURCES, VET IT, TEST IT TAKES ENORMOUS TIME. YOU CAN DO YOUR OWN VIDEOS, GET IT RANKED HIGHER ON GOOGLE ETC. WITHOUT GURUS.

              INSTEAD A MUCH FASTER TO USE MIKE KOENIGS OR THE OTHER GURUS. MIKE TELLS YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW, WHAT YOU NEED TO DO AND-AND-AND GIVE YOU A TERMINAL WITH WHICH TO DO IT “R-A-P-I-D-O ” !!!

              2] SO IN A WAY I AGREE WITH YOU BELOW. BUT MY POINT IS GET MIKE, GET IT NOW AND GET RICH.

              I would be more of the opinion that there isn’t any The Secret anyway. Unless you were wondering about the secret of how to convince people to enter a sweat lodge with you and die of heat stroke. There’s a great guru for that–James Arthur Ray.

              ——

              Off line marketing with online is a VERY POWERFUL WAY THAT GURU MIKE KOENIGS teaches in his cross channel mojo . . . . Use them and you too will become filthy friggin’ rich .

              You need to come out of delusion land sometime.

              IF I AM “DELUDED” AS YOU SAY THEN WHY DON’T YOU ORCHESTRA CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT OR INDIVIDUAL LAW SUIT AGAINST THE GURUS? ANSWER: BECAUSE IN COURSE – UNLIKE HERE WHERE YOU DEFAME AND DEFRAUD THE GURUS AND PEOPLE – IN COURT YOU MUST PROVE YOUR CONTENTION.

              YOU WOULD L-O-S-E. SO UNABLE, UNWILLING TO DO SO YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT HERE.

              Yours or anyone elses odds of becoming “filty friggin’ rich” as a direct result of following Mke Koenigs awesome wisdom are roughly the same to that of people that buy lottery tickets.

              INCORRECT. WHEREAS WITH LOTTERY TICKETS ONE CAN’T CONTROL IT ANY WAY, USING MIKE KOENIGS YOU PUT IT TO ACTION, SEE WHAT IS WORKING, WHAT IS NOT, AND RE-ADJUST CONTINUOUSLY USING MIKE’S TECHNIQUES UNTIL YOU HIT IT RICH… FILTHY RICH JUST LIKE MANY HAVE THAT SPEAK ON HIS STAGE (INCLUDING MYSELF BUT I KEEP IT PRIVATE).

              That’s because, unless you actually have an actual product or service to sell people, then all the marketing in the world isn’t going to amount to anything.

              ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. WHEREAS IT IS PREFERRED YOU HAVE YOUR OWN PRODUCT OR SERVICE (AGREED), YOU DON’T EVEN NEED TO HAVE YOUR OWN PRODUCT OR SERVICE, YOU CAN SELL OTHERS’ JUST LIKE EBAY CONSULTANTS.

              Oh, unless, except, of course if you go the route of taking general purpose marketing tips plus a grab-bag of works-temporarily web tricks and package it up as if it’s the Most Perfect Turnkey solution to marketing.

              MIKE NEVER SAYS HE IS THE MOST PERFECT. NOR DO ANY GURU. B-U-T “I” AM SAYING THE GURUS ARE THE MOST PERFECT MARKETING METHODS IN ALL OF HISTORY ON THE INTERNET (EXCEPT PERHAPS FOR THE NEEDS OF BIG BUSINESS, BUT EVEN BIG BUSINESS CAN USE THIS)

            2. @Chuck,

              Your schtick is getting old. Especially this part:

              @Wyrd, MY WRITING IS IN BOLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM YOURS. I AM NOT SHOUTING.

              YOU SAID THE SAME THING TO @MobyMom and @Case.

              YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED MY SUGGESTION ABOUT <BLOCKQUOTE&rt;. BUT WHAT’S THE MATTER? DID MIKE KOENIGS OR THE OTHER GURUS NOT SLIP YOU A LINK TO SOME BASIC HTML HOW-TO?

              Truly, this is simple, simple stuff:
              http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/blockquote

              I think you use the capitalization method because you think it’s flashier and will get you more attention. You’re half right. But getting attention isn’t always a good thing.

              P.S. If I fail to respond to any more of your posts, it’s not because I don’t have an answer. It’s just that, no offense intended, you’re getting kinda boring.

              To your success.


              Furry cows moo and decompress.

  4. I had Traffic Geyser for a long time after it first came out. It worked. Did EXACTLY what it was created to do — get you “Page One” Google rankings from posting videos on the leading video sharing sites that allowed it.

    Not that the traffic you got from that sort of ranking mattered. It didn’t amount to much if any — and there was never a bump in BUYERS from that traffic I could see, no matter how much I tested it out.

    Yup — got ranked number one, number one, number one, on a number of long-tail keywords. No discernible traffic.

    But, because it DID do what Koenigs said, thousands of people bought it and used it. They could at least duplicate their results. It was only the assumption that the results would turn into extra money coming in that was where it all went wrong.

    These thousands of people then began PUMMELING the video sharing sites with dozens upon dozens of similar-but-slightly-different videos.

    They noticed — and kept changing their rules and requirements, trying to reduce the number of automated machine-gun submissions pouring in thanks to the likes of the Geyser. Google also noticed…and the algorithm changes kicked in to negate the effect.

    Soon enough — you couldn’t hit number one (as if it mattered) with Traffic Geyser so easy any more. Some even saw their sites DElisted from Google.

    Did that stop the Geyser from spewing forth promises? No? Did the promises change? No.

    The bloom is off the rose. Traffic Geyser was another one of those great ideas that worked and did what it said…if the guy who created it had kept it for himself and continued to use it “stealth-mode” to sell his own stuff.

    This happens all the time in IM.

    Someone jiggles this and cranks up that and…BOOM! A solid result! Sometimes one that even generates more SALES. IT WORKS!

    Then it’s time to spin immediately into overdrive — cranking out the sales letters and manuals and videos to turn it all into a “course” or a “training” or a “system” that can be sold to make even MORE.

    And it sells — because you’ve proven its effectiveness.

    Then, as soon as hundreds or thousands of your buyers crank it up…the fact that it’s “gaming” the system shines like a beacon to those who can shut it down (usually the search engines) — and it is.

    Believe me — if someone “made thousands” or “millions” from some tacky whiz-bank gamer-of-the-system and now wants to sell it to you, it’s probably already been noticed and the algorithms are being re-written to make it no longer work before you plunk down you dollars to give it a whirl.

    IF it worked at all in the first place.

    1. @Head Honcho,

      Brilliantly put!! You just made the best explanation for not buying into SEO games that I’ve ever seen in so little space.

      @SD,

      I love your new term “confesstimonal” and look forward to seeing many, many more. There’s something about the voice of one who’s been there that makes it compelling in a way that nothing else can. It’s also a cool way to empower victims in a surprisingly humane and generous way for a Salty Driod. ;)

      You rock.

      1. @Not A Kool-Aid Kid, I second your note to @SD! Even though the “salty” part is missing…the “insider” view makes “confestimonials” all the more compelling.

        1. @Head Honcho, thanks! What I mean is that SD’s being hugely generous by providing a safe, high profile platform for those insiders to share. Awesome stuff!

  5. Years ago I tried Traffic Geyser and it sucked so bad I had a guy write a program similar to it that actually worked and actually was easy to use. I intended to use it for myself and a few close friends, but ended up doing private label licensing to several other companies for a very nice profit. People loved it, our support calls were minimal – maybe 2 a week per thousand users. It cost less than 5K to develop and took less than 2 months.

    I allowed the programmer to use his knowledge and creativity to accomplish the finished product and that product worked beautifully. If I had a nickle for every person I heard say “God how I hate Traffic Geyser – it’s sooooo hard to use” I would be retired in Bimini.

    Paul C. could write a very thick book on what he doesn’t know about You Tube. His info is frequently misleading or downright incorrect and I feel sorry for all the sheeple who listen to him or buy Mike’s garbage.

    My point is – there are alternatives to slimeball Koenigs. You have to look for them, you have to dig around a bit. But they do exist. When I left the video/press release/article submission software behind to move on to App development I was sickened at the IM scum who were trying to latch onto newcomers to that market. Again it took a little time to find solutions, but they do exist – and at a fraction of the cost of the IM garbage.

    One highly hyped guru from the IM cartel would sell you his app making software at an exorbitant price, then use your App to advertise his own apps for free! You got to PAY the guru so he could hype HIS products in your app! Pretty slick scheme. Oh and the app making software didn’t work very well and was very difficult to use. But not to worry – his guys would do it for you – for a price of course.

    Sorry to go on so long, but the point is – you CAN make money from these gurus. It’s easy – just write something better than they have that actually works and is easy to use. Oh yeah and know and understand your market. Don’t talk SEO or YouTube unless you actually know something about it.

    1. @MobyMom, Your review is so poor , calling Mike a “slimeball” ! How dare you ? MY WRITING IS IN BOLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM YOURS. I AM NOT SHOUTING.

      Years ago I tried Traffic Geyser and it sucked so bad

      THIS IS PECULIAR BECAUSE IT HAS CONTINUED TO GROW IN POPULARITY WITH PEOPLE RENEWING SUBSCRIPTIONS, AND MIKE’S SEMINARS HAVE GROWN INTO HUGE HALL ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE , WITH PEOPLE FLYING IN FROM AROUND THE WORLD FOR IT. SO YOUR EXPERIENCE IS UNIQUE.

      I had a guy write a program similar to it that actually worked and actually was easy to use.

      THAT IS FANTASTIC ! MY POINT IS SO DID MIKE AND UNLIKE YOU HE SOLD IT TO MAKE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND RIGHTLY. THAT IS HIS RIGHT TO DO SO. WHY CALL HIM “SLIMEBALL” THAT HE IS NOT?

      I intended to use it for myself and a few close friends, but ended up doing private label licensing to several other companies for a very nice profit.

      SO YOU ARE SAYING THIS CONCEPT W-O-R-K-$$$$$ ! THANK YOU. YOU HAVE PROVED THE GURUS !!!!!! I LOVE YOU

      People loved it, our support calls were minimal – maybe 2 a week per thousand users. It cost less than 5K to develop and took less than 2 months.

      FANTASTIC – THE SAME AS THE GURUS: MINIMAL OR NO SUPPORT ! BRILLIANT!!!!

      I allowed the programmer to use his knowledge and creativity to accomplish the finished product and that product worked beautifully. If I had a nickle for every person I heard say “God how I hate Traffic Geyser – it’s sooooo hard to use” I would be retired in Bimini.

      ABOVE PARAGRAPH MAKES NO SENSE. YOU ARE SAYING THAT MIRACULOUSLY YOU ARE “BETTER” YET CRITICISE THE COMPETITION. ALSO THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF YOUR WORK WHEREAS MIKE IS $1 TRIAL RIGHT NOW IT IS SO GOOD.

      Paul C. could write a very thick book on what he doesn’t know about You Tube.

      EVERYONE CAN WRITE A BOOK ON WHAT THEY DON’T KNOW ABOUT GOOGLE AND YOUTUBE. IT WOULDNT HELP. INSTEAD THEY WRITE ABOUT WHAT THEY “DO KNOW” AND THEN USE THAT TO MAKE MONEY: THEY, THEIR CLIENTS, EVERY-ONE.

      His info is frequently misleading or downright incorrect and I feel sorry for all the sheeple who listen to him or buy Mike’s garbage.

      YOU FEEL SORRY FOR THE “SHEEP” , EH? THEN WHY NOT TELL US WHAT YOUR PRODUCT IS? WHY NOT SELL IT ? YOU ARE A LIAR SIR. A L-I-A-R OR YOU ARE THE COMPETITION TRYNING HARD TO DISPARAGE MILLIONAIRE-MAKER MIKE KOENIGS AND PAUL C.

      My point is – there are alternatives to slimeball Koenigs.

      YES – OBVIOUSLY AND YOU ARE THE ALTERNATIVE THAT MYSTERIOUSLY DOESN’T GIVE ANY EVIDENCE.

      You have to look for them, you have to dig around a bit. But they do exist.

      WHERE, IN LA-LA-LAND? GIVE ME A BREAK MAN . THEY EXIST “IN YOU” AS YOU HAVE INVENTED A BETTER PRODUCT THAT NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT !!!!!!!

      I AM ENDING HERE AS THIS IS TOO EASY TO SHOW MIKE KOENIGS IS THE BEST AND THIS REVIEWER IS TALKING NO SENSE , NO EVIDENCE, NOTHING! GET MIKE , USE MIKE , GET RICH.

    1. @wizzbang, Promoting your product on the Saltydroids blog takes some balls or being really, really high, and I can’t tell which one is your reason.

        1. @SD, Very probably true, or some really powerful hallucinogenics.

          At any rate – building apps? If you’re after some basic framework around a wordpress theme that’s reasonably simple to do and will do absolutely jack shit for any of the actual local businesses that are supposed to be the customers for this. I keep coming back to the example of the plumber down the street who gets most of his business from being a subcontractor to a large construction conglomerate and uses business from private individuals mostly to fill in free space on the jobs calendar. They’ve got a basic web site which is mostly their flier(done by a local freelancer) reproduced in html, lists their land line. their cell phones, and that’s all they need to have a waiting list of customers to fill in the days between their construction site jobs.

          What the fuck would they need an app for, what earthly reason would they have to go do some inbound marketing and how exactly would they go about building up an audience of potential actual customers who don’t have the faintest interest in the intricacies of picking the correct size waste water pipes? The only recurring audience they could build would be a bunch of other plumbers they could commiserate about the wankers who try to do their own hot water repairs and fuck up their house but they’re plumbers, not god-damned comedians and any time spent dicking around on the ‘net is time they aren’t out doing what makes them actual money.

          And yet, this is the group of people the “offline marketing” crowd and now the “mobile marketing/app making” crowd tells me should be perfect target customers for selling them on an expesive service they don’t need and sure a s fuck won’t make them any appreciable ROI.

    1. @, Anonymous,

      If I’d written it, it woulda said a lot of the same stuff, but it woulda been a bit less factual and more creative.

      All true though.

      Mars

      P.S. Didn’t even know about it until you wrote this reply Mike.

    2. Nice work @Anonymous {/Mike} :: too bad you didn’t have the balls to use a real IP address … your friend @Mars here didn’t feel the need to IP mask.

      I didn’t know Mike used to have a Mars :: seems so unlikely what with him already having a Rocket … but now that I know that he did this exchange is much funnier.

      Everyone’s leaving you Mike :: looks like they even took Haley’s white girl rapping with them …

      http://youtu.be/h0n4URGSZOw

      … personally … I can’t get enough raps about Andy Jenkins.

      Hey Mars :: you’ve got Dean Graziosi testimoanialzing for you on your homepage … and you call him an “Author and Real Estate Expert.”

      Doesn’t Dean backend to Utah :: and more specifically … to Professional Marketing International …

      http://saltydroid.info/scamming-two-debbies/

      … as featured here?

      Is that okay? Is it okay to help service a guy who would do shit like that? Is it okay to use a guy like that to help sell your own stuff?

      Maybe there is some gray area to Internet Marketing that I can’t see because I’m too fucking stupid … but can’t there at least be a line in the sand about the fucking boiler rooms?

      1. @SD, Okay, so did what I think just happen… happen?

        Hey, Mike “Disruptasaurus” Koenigs… I bet you’re feelin a little disrupted yourself right now… HA!!

        Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

  6. In the real world (that place where actual grownup adults live) business is HARD…making a profit is HARD…and few things are harder than making profits online!

    There are NO “systems”, “secrets”, “hidden tricks” or any other such magical-thinking bullshit.

    The real economy is a churning chaotic environment and businesses are all versions of the Red Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen%27s_Hypothesis)…running a fast as they can just to stay in place (at least the ones with smart work-your-ass-off experienced owners and managers).

    All these $3000 “Secret Unicorn Systems” are simply the Monetization of Magical Thinking…and every potential buyer of one of these pieces of scam should start by studying THIS concept first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking.

    Sadly this is nothing new…40+ years ago I watched my own parents cycle through one scammy MLM program, business creation course, correspondence “degree” course after another. All we ended up with was a garage full of laundry detergent no one could sell…and the ONLY profits ever made was those made by the scammers.

    It was Magical Thinking then…it’s still nothing but magical thinking…only on Internet YouTube steroids!

    I’ll close with one last comment. My opening statement about “business is HARD” comes from 30 years of direct experience. I started my first company at 24 (modestly successful…but only after much hard work). Over the years I’ve started a number of companies (including several online companies)…some have gone nowhere…some have succeed a little…some have done quite well. ALL required an unbelievable amount of hard work and smarts (neither of which guarantee success) to figure out what the market wanted and how to deliver it.

    There are NO “Secret Systems”…it’s all about doing the hard hard work to figure it out as move forward in the marketplace…

    1. @Case,
      I agree with most of what you say…

      … Except the secret’s part.

      There are marketing secrets. The trick is to find them. And you won’t get them from gurus or experts.

      I’ll give you one right now that’s killer for me:

      Go to your direct competition’s websites. Look for external broken links… pages that recommend another webpage, but come up as “Page not found”.

      Contact the site owner. Tell s/he that you found a broken link. When the site owner emails you back, disclose it and suggest they add your site in their blogroll or recommend sources. You’d be surprised how many will do this… and that’s precisely-targeted, never-endings visits to your site.

      The best part is when you get a bunch of competitors linking to your site, you get SEO benefits.

      All of this is free. And yes, it’s a lot of work – not hard work… but a lot of work. And it won’t cost you a penny.

      Do this every day… never quit and you’ll wish you did this decades ago.

      1. @Arkus Mallen,

        There are no marketing secrets, just the absolute obvious wrapped up in a big nice bow made to sound like its really important and new.

    2. @Case, MY WRITING IS IN BOLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM YOUR WRITING. I AM NOT SHOUTING.

      In the real world (that place where actual grownup adults live) business is HARD…making a profit is HARD…and few things are harder than making profits online!

      THAT IS YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM . I SUSPECT YOU ARE NOT EVEN IN BUSINESS.

      BUSINESS IS EASY IF YOU FOLLOW A PROVEN SYSTEM. MIKE KOENIGS AND THE GURUS GIVE YOU A SYSTEM SO YOU CAN WORK 4 HOURS A WEEK OR LESS ONCE YOU GET IT GOING. YOU SIMPLY OUTSOURCE EVERYTHING .

      There are NO “systems”, “secrets”, “hidden tricks” or any other such magical-thinking bullshit.

      IF THERE WERE NO SYSTEMS THEN EVERYTHING WOULD BE RANDOM. IF EVERYTHING WAS RANDOM THERE WOULD BE NO POINT IN ANY JOB OR ANYTHING AS PAY WOULD NEVER BE GUARANTEED PER DAY.

      YOU ARE QUITE WRONG BECAUSE SCIENCE, BUSINESS SCHOOL AND SO FORTH IS ABOUT MODELS=SYSTEMS.

      The real economy is a churning chaotic environment

      THAT IS YOUR FALSE STATEMENT. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AN ANARCHY THAT DOES NOT EXIST. TRY CITING THIS RED QUEEN HYPOTHESIS IN ANY UNDERGRADUATE FIRST YEAR ECONOMICS COURSE AND YOU WILL FAIL.

      and businesses are all versions of the Red Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen%27s_Hypothesis)…running a fast as they can just to stay in place (at least the ones with smart work-your-ass-off experienced owners and managers).

      All these $3000 “Secret Unicorn Systems” are simply the Monetization of Magical Thinking…and every potential buyer of one of these pieces of scam should start by studying THIS concept first: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking.

      THIS IS THE PARADOX: IT IS YOU THAT IS ENGAGING IN MAGICAL THINKING TO ADVOCATE YOUR POSITION. YOUR POSITION IS THAT OF THE MARXIST. ITS A FALLACIOUS POSITION THAT KILLS PEOPLE IN COMMUNISM AND STATISM.

      Sadly this is nothing new…40+ years ago I watched my own parents cycle through one scammy MLM program,

      IF YOUR PARENTS RISKED TO CONDUCT BUSINESS IN A SENSIBLE WAY AND DID NOT MAKE IT – THAT IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE. BUT IT IS NOT A “STATISTICAL BASE RATE” . THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MAKE IT (GOOD PRODUCTS AND/OR MARKETING) AND OTHERS THAT DO NOT. THAT IS THE NATURE OF BUSINESS JUST LIKE SPORTS OR JUST LIKE DATING.

      business creation course, correspondence “degree” course after another. All we ended up with was a garage full of laundry detergent no one could sell…and the ONLY profits ever made was those made by the scammers.

      It was Magical Thinking then…it’s still nothing but magical thinking…only on Internet YouTube steroids!

      THAT IS YOUR FALLACIOUS BELIEF: IT IS YOU THAT IS ENGAGING IN MAGICAL THINKING. IT IS COMMUNISM OR ANARCHY THAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING AND THAT IS REJECTED.

      I’ll close with one last comment. My opening statement about “business is HARD” comes from 30 years of direct experience. I started my first company at 24 (modestly successful…but only after much hard work). Over the years I’ve started a number of companies (including several online companies)…some have gone nowhere…some have succeed a little…some have done quite well. ALL required an unbelievable amount of hard work and smarts (neither of which guarantee success) to figure out what the market wanted and how to deliver it.

      There are NO “Secret Systems”…it’s all about doing the hard hard work to figure it out as move forward in the marketplace…

      THERE ARE SYSTEMS. THEY ARE SECRET IF THE METHODS ARE NOT KNOWN TO OTHERS AND THE GURUS MAKE THE MONEY AND THEN REVEAL IT.

      1. @CHUCK,

        YOUR WRITING IS IN BOLD BECAUSE YOU CAN’T BE BOTHERED TO LEARN HOW TO USE A <BLOCKQUOTE> TAG. MEBBIE YOU SHOULD GET ONE OF YOUR MANY OUTSOURCED FOLKS TO ‘SPLAIN IT TO YOU.

        or not.

        It still looks like shouting. If you don’t know that, then I don’t think you know very much ‘netiquette.

        Furry cows moo and decompress.

  7. I love this site. it is so fun and informative (and disturbing) to read deeper and deeper back through the posts. especially when SD is firing on all cylinders, building up stories and cases over time. it’s also so refreshing to find a site that has style AND is obsessed with facts and cold, primary source information.

    but this is a sub-par post, SD. this fellow is so long-winded. also, he seems to still be lost in scamworld. I could barely make it through.

    maybe it’s just weird to see this sort of half baked thinking (and writing) in a post on saltydroid.info, because the droid is so so sharp.

    I’ve never been ‘taken’ by an IM scam (I was scammed by the white van surround sound speaker routine once thorough), but I get a thrill watching the scammers do their thing.. it’s fun to feel yourself start to believe it for a second. it’s also a trip to try and wrap your mind around all the levels of meta deception. also, it seems like the guys who are at the ‘top’ of the game are only there because they are charismatic entertainers, like all good con men, preachers, etc.

    1. @fs ::

      Yeah :: well … it’s not supposed to be a writing contest with me for fuck sake … because almost zero people would wanna sign up for that. I’ve been practicing a lot.

      Plus I don’t think you’re right … there are lots of good points in there. There’s most def still some sympathy for the scamworld dark side … but that’s a much closer match to the minds of some of the victims than is my avant-garde literary extremism … sometimes … maybe … we’ll see.

    2. @fs,

      I think the response comments the post has generated more than make up for any lackluster-i-ness in the post.

      See all those saying they were scammed. See those few who still say the emperor has lots of clothes and is some kind of paragon.

      IMHO you’re looking in at a little piece of scamworld daily life. Imagine how much it would suck to live there in your head every day.


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

      1. @Wyrd,

        >I think the response comments the post has generated more than make up for any lackluster-i-ness in the post.

        Absolutely. This comment thread has been incredible.

  8. Well, this confirms what a bunch of second rate hacks these people are, as if we had much doubt.

    What he said at the end is very true – find out for yourself. I turned my back on the Syndicate idiots a couple of years ago (luckily, never spent any actual money with the because their crap is available on Bittorrent a few days after launch).

    I started doing stuff that requires real skill and work, and hey presto, actually started making some money. I’ve also gotten to know some genuinely successful SEO practitioners, and found they all have one thing in common: they have no interest whatsoever in sharing what they know with the general public.

    They make far more money doing it than selling shitty ebooks, and as soon as a technique is outed, Google patches it to stop working. Oh, and they all work 80 hour weeks, which is another unsurprising fact nobody in Syndicate land tells you.

  9. It is fucking hard to seo anything let alone automate it. I am not surprised he failed. I would have easily bought his shit had I not read this. Thanks Salty

    Anyone feel this?
    KOENINGS 2012

    Mister superman no here.

    1. @Satan’s maid and her green card, Buy Mike Koenigs. Use Mike Koenigs. Get rich with Mike Koenis. I’ve made over a million dollars using Mike Koenigs mostly, and the other gurus. Do it now.

  10. Funny thing is.. Traffic Geyser idea was stolen from another big IM’er..
    (True Story)

    It is too bad the article didn’t do a deep dive into what a prick he is… He is worse than this post makes him out to be.

    1. @Something you don’t know,
      Totally agree! His Main Street Marketing crap unleashed a huge group of the uninformed on small biz owners all over the country. Some of my clients reported getting dozens of emails and phone calls with the same crap soon after that garbage program hit. And it’s real purpose was to bring more people into the failing Traffic Geyser system.

      He farms out most of the “we’ll do it for you” parts of MSM and TG to a Fillipino company who are one of the worst I’ve ever seen. All the while leading the sheeple who follow his “system” to believe that they are actually using TG to do it. In other words his own program doesn’t even work for him.

      1. @MobyMom,

        That was the best part of this, and it always made me wonder if the Main Street Marketing/Traffic Geyser hydra crossed the line into being a pyramid scheme.

        Vis a vis “Buy this software, then buy this expensive course, that teaches you how to make money by getting other people to buy this software!”

        1. @Sundog ::

          Not to mention the mockery they make of state and federal business opportunity disclosure rules.

            1. @Lanna, FTC said “Well, maybe it’s OK if sometimes or mostly MLM’s don’t play by rules…because it will make the pyramid-building badly slowed:
              http://mlmattorney.com/blog/2012/03/16/the-new-ftc-business-opportunity-rule-mlmdirect-selling-exemption-recognized/

              State laws can still sometimes apply:
              http://www.americanbar.org/publications/franchise_lawyer/2012/spring_2012/10_things_you_need_know_about_ftc_new_biz_op_rule.html

              One man once told me that ever since AmWay decision, MLM has owned the FTC.

            2. @Jack,

              Grr. But they still have to do the income disclosures, right? So people know that 80% of the “distributors” make $10k or less per year from it, and the people who make $60k and more average 80+ working hours a week?

              I remember for one of the MLMs the marketing people knew the $/%/hours breakdown and were very frustrated by the market research participants wanting to work ten hours a week, not do anything resembling sales, not take any risks, and make $80k+ a year. But by now the marketing from that should be out, and it’s still the same-old, same-old unicorn dreams. Maybe the only way to sell an MLM “opportunity” is to slap a big unicorn on the front of the box.

            3. @Jack,

              One man once told me that ever since AmWay decision, MLM has owned the FTC.

              Whoever that dude was, I have to agree with him. I checked via google to see if that “AmWay decision” was what I thought it was:
              wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Amway_Corp.

              Yeah that’s what I thought it was.

              @Any/all,
              I’m new to scamtown, but I can tell a Real Slippery Slope when I see one years after the fact. :-)

              Making that trivial distinction that was made–saying that it’s not an illegal pyramid scheme if there’s a product being sold–that was a technicality/red herring thing so they could carry on the cult indoctrination stuff only now with a legal seal of approval. Pretty effing evil, IMHO.

              I’m using “they” there as if there were some sort of amorphous “they” entity. Of course that’s not actually how it is. (probably) Rather it’s a sort of birds-of-a-feather group mentality and lots of under the table handshakes, winks, and the occasional kick back.

              Everything is related to everything else. You grant a slackening of the rules in 1979, you open the door for a “Shurtleff” to exist and be the AG of MLM (aka PYRAMID SCHEMEs with noisy shiny crap added) in 2012. If your whole business is nothing but marketing about marketing about marketing and the only way to really make money at it is to convince other people to sell it, then… that’s not really a business. That’s more like a self-replicating malicious brain virus and a blight on the people.

              At that time, I doubt anyone envisioned that sometime in the future, “they’d” have the glory of an AG running MLM(s) and all the fake credibility and real power/influence that, that can bring.

              Yet here we are.


              Furry cows moo and decompress.

        1. @Wait… wha…, you asked “why is Mike Koenigs Great?”

          Answers:

          1. He is very honest
          2. He does not state any lies
          3. He is genuinely self made millionaire many times over and
          4. He gives me and many others the chance to make a living (in my case, I’ve slogged very hard for 3 years now to just go over the million mark after taxes)
          5. He has “all star” team that have made almost as much as me
          6. If he has stated any ‘lies’, with the amount he is making, he will go straight to jail but because he has not (besides because of the amount I have personally made, I’d testify for him against the FTA but it would never come to that because it works)
          7. He has made me ANGRY because he would not give me a discount to do my video (he wants $120,000). But I did it and have made $236,324 profits in one year (this is not Traffic Geyser, with that I have made over $1million, but this is another related product) where I teach people to stop smoking. Mike filmed me and made the product in 2 days and I use his Traffic Geyser platform to sell it , but I use that to sell my services to people too

  11. This is a great article. Perhaps I’ll write one and submit it on slobbernet. I find it amazing the similarities between the story here and SN, but I’ll digress for now. One thing I need to disagree with about the article and even though I don’t know Koenigs( other than meeting him at one of the Live events) I know he does not make money off SE traffic no more than any of the other gurus. These guys do not make money off actually doing what they tell you to do to make lots of money, they make their money by selling you the dream. That is what a lot of people don’t understand. The ones I’ve met don’t have a clue about really building a site that pulls in traffic and creates a profit, they just know how to pitch to an audience.

    Fallon claims to have made his millions and expertise off the wedding industry, but if you do a little research( you can even read other posts on this site), you will determine that his wife was the brains behind that operation and they also grabbed a market share when the online wedding market had a lot less competition. My bet is Koenigs has never earned more than a few dollars from a visitor buying a commercial product. His money comes from selling the dream that you too can be rich like him, but from the way this article sounds he is living from launch to launch too, just like the other ones.

    1. @Someone, YOU PROVE THAT THE GURUS METHODS WORKS. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF IT IS HIM OR HIS WIFE THAT MAKE A MILLION – THE POINT IS THE SYSTEM IS TRUE AND WORKS.

  12. Don’t know MK personally, but did have several lengthy conversations with him years ago when he was promoting his internet infomercial program. He came across disengaged for the most part except when it came to who I knew and how much he’d like to hook up with them to do a deal. I never had a warm and fuzzy feeling talking with him. He reminded me of a nervous used car salesman trying to make a quick buck.

    Ever paid attention to his tag line on his website header? It is very similar to Frank Kerns ads I’ve seen on facebook. MK promotes himself as the highest paid/highest grossing online video marketing expert. FK promotes himself as the highest paid marketing expert/consultant. Did they both go to the same pr school? What I’d like to see is the proof that the statements are justified.

    There’s just something about MK and FK that doesn’t add up… aside from the fact that everyone I know don’t believe they know a damn thing about what they’re selling, nor do they have as many successful clients as they claim.
    JMHO

    1. @Q007 ::

      MK promotes himself as the highest paid/highest grossing online video marketing expert. FK promotes himself as the highest paid marketing expert/consultant. Did they both go to the same pr school?

      Yep.

      It’s called Dan Kennedy. Sometimes it was called the Platinum Mastermind. Sometimes Diamond. Nowadays, the highest level is the Titanium…

      Ohhhh Dan. The Grandfather of the original “IM” :: “Information Marketing”…

      What a legacy.

        1. @MaxBenign, That’s a good one!… Unobtainium… I may borrow that term from you in my next post.

          1. @Q007,

            As Wyrd points out, not a term I invented. I think I know it first as cyclist slang for fancy lightweight bike parts (from back in the day before every dentist rode a full carbon bike…). Glad to share it though, it’s a good’un.

    2. @Q007, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A FAILING MIKE YEARS BEFORE – THAT TRIED AND TRIED JUST LIKE STEVE JOBS THAT FAILED WITH PRODUCTS – THAT TRIED AND TRIED – ONLY TO HIT SUPER SUCCESS. MIKE [UNLIKE JOBS] ACTUALLY SHARES THE SECRET SAUCE – MAKING MIKE THE BIGGEST HERO ON EARTH [MORE THAN JOBS]

  13. I agree with everything the writer said. I know friends who were on the inside and know Mike as well. Everything is true.

    Also, when he released Social Media Money Machine there was no product. It was created afterwords when the money came in. I also know AJ got a call from the FTC and they were looking into Koenigs and company at beginning of the year. I wouldn’t be surprised it they didn’t come a knocking.

    I also know he was bleeding cash and that’s why he let everyone go and relaunched the MOJO crap. He even put the Travis on part time. BTW -What happened to that turn around specialist he brought on board…LMAO

  14. It’s a virtual pyramid scheme.

    There are more of these guys selling affiliate systems than there are actual affiliate sites selling anything else.

    If the entire world sold affiliate marketing systems, there’d be no one left to sell to…and these guys have reached critical mass.

    What’s creepy is the cult like nature they’ve established.

  15. Mike Koenigs and his organization deliver outstanding value for their products and in their communities.

    I am a member of the Cross Channel MOJO community. I’ve watched lots of people make the investment, spend their time well, and have remarkable results. Some people are very fast learners.

    The flip side of the coin is that some people do not take the time to design a plan or put a plan into action.

    The tone and tenor of this article is very troubling. “Victims” and “perps” and inflammatory language saddens me.

    I disagree with the writer’s assessment of Paul Colligan. Paul is a visionary and he has done a masterful community management job at Traffic Geyser.

    There is a group of amazing entrepreneurs who have built some wonderful, profitable businesses using TG and IC tools. The gentleman from Albuquerque has built a seven-figure business on the strength of sound business principles, good strategies, and access to good tools.

    The affiliate sales model is evolving. Mike Koenigs has created new opportunities within his community for innovative sales solutions.

    I think the characterizations about Frank Kern are equally unfair. The man is brilliant. I invested in his “Mass Control” program. It is excellent!

    I don’t work in the IM space. I do follow these gents, however, and I derive great value from their products and their counsel. They don’t talk about magic buttons. They talk about hard work and perseverance.

    #justsayin

    1. @Frances Flynn Thorsen, You have just said a whole lot of words and opinions. Please provide some verifiable facts to support your claims.

      “Koenigs and his organization deliver outstanding value for their products and in their communities.”

      What Specifically is the value offered for the product and community?

      “I’ve watched lots of people make the investment, spend their time well, and have remarkable results. Some people are very fast learners”

      Who specifically has made the investment, spent their time well, and had remarkable results? Define remarkable?

      “There is a group of amazing entrepreneurs who have built some wonderful, profitable businesses using TG and IC tools. ”

      Who, specifically, are the people in this group?

      1. I am happy to respond in great detail to a person who signs a real name to a post. I don’t dig anonymous posting.

        I’ve been writing professionally since age 16 (that was 1968). My Daddy told me, “If something is worth writing, it’s worth putting your name on it.”

        If you want more than an outline of my thought you have to come across with a verifiable name.

        That’s one of the problems with this discussion thread.

        FYI … I work in the real estate space. I am co-author of “Real Estate Social Media Policies and Procedures Manual. I urge brokers and responsible business people to adopt a social media policy that includes a list of guidelines, including the following:

        Social Networking Guidelines

        1. Social networking and video site users are required to write/post content under their own names. Pseudonyms and anonymous postings are prohibited, whether using a personal social networking site, public video site, or a Company-hosted social networking or video site.

        *******

        If you want me to qualify my statements, the least you can do is qualify your identity. If you don’t do that you’re not worth any more of my time.

        1. @Frances Flynn Thorsen, “I am happy to respond in great detail to a person who signs a real name to a post. I don’t dig anonymous posting.”

          Thanks for providing nonsense rebuttal. Is most writing you do nonsense verse?

        2. @Frances Flynn Thorsen, You are new to these pages so apparently you don’t know that you don’t set the rules here so get off your high horse because, frankly, my dear, no one gives a damn about your requirements. I refer you to Salty’s introductory comments. The resistance needs a safe place to tell our stories and this is it. Former employees have often been sued in order to silence them from telling “The Whole Truth”.. I personally worked for one of these shysters who sued customers with defamation lawsuits when they complained online about his lousy product, broken promises, misleading advertising, and totally inadequate customer service. Not only did he take their money and their dreams, but he betrayed their trust with callous disregard for the damage he was doing to their lives and families. Then he reduced them to groveling beggars after that illusive refund or rebate. No Frances, many of these boys are bad actors just waiting for a name in print so some overpaid, unprincipled lawyer can hassle me. No thank you.

        3. Aw man! stupid internet ate my comment while trying to submit it! I assure everyone it was the greatest comment ever left on any blog in the history of comments ever made ever. Sadly, I was unable to bottle that lightening and now I have to just leave you with this.

          @SD, @Jack, @ Anonymous, Stupid uni summer classes keeping me away from commenting on droid’s page! I see though that you here have been awesome while I am away. Don’t even mind be ninja’d by such awesomeness.

          @Frances Flynn Thorsen, why do you want my name? That’s kinda weird. You gave a bunch of opinions and made an argument and I asked you for facts to back that up. Doesn’t make sense that you need my name IRL to respond. I didn’t make any accusations against you. If I had I could MAYBE understand your request. Otherwise, in a place where people have actually been harassed IRL for criticizing these jokers, I don’t have to sacrifice my peace of mind or feeling safe in order to criticize them. You made the argument, now support it. But thanks for you dad’s advice. Much appreciated. My dad always told me to be skeptical. And my mom always taught me to “be safe”. See, my parents can give advice too.

          Anyway, since you won’t respond to lil’ ol’ me, what with my being just like most of the internet and not wanting to give total strangers information about myself because…stranger danger….@SD gave you his credentials, so maybe you can answer his questions.

      2. @What the what,

        ““Koenigs and his organization deliver outstanding value for their products and in their communities.””

        Why can you have to have the proof? The proof is in mr. Koenig’s repeated & also well-documented use of testimonials that violate the FTC’s 2009 No Safe Harbor Guidelines, including wacky-disclaimers telling the FTC that data is being collected.

        The TRUSTGUARD seals on Traffic Geyser’s order page that don’t click out for 3rd-party verification I think can be a nice touch from mr. Koenigs,too.

        Hopefully some affiliates know about they can be on the hook for promoting deceptive ads because:

        FTC v Copeac
        FTC v Media Innovations

        tell us the story that the gatekeepers like affiliates can’t just claim they “didn’t know” deceptive things were going about in the ads, just like FTC v Moneygram showed us the start of FTC willing to go after Gatekeepers of fraud.

    2. @Frances Flynn Thorsen ::

      Hi Frances … I’m Jason Jones … I pretend to be this robot. So I guess now we are formally introduced.

      I appreciate you wanting to host non-anonymous online conversations … in some cases I think that is quite appropriate. But it certainly isn’t here :: this place is about crime … and lies … and betrayal … and death … and dirty dirty fucking lawyers. The badguys make real names impossible … and not at all advisable.

      You can’t judge the quality of a book unless you’ve seen its cover? You think you can have any kind of meaningful relationship or conversation with the Internet if you refuse to dialoge with people behind handles … avatars … nics … and toons? That’s not how it works.

      Anywayz Frances :: the first thing you’re going to want to do when you leave a comment under your real name giving any sort of endorsement … is to state your current affiliations if there are any. So would you mind doing that for me Frances? Have you ever received any compensation for selling any products or services sold by Mike or Paul?

      I see you trying to sell them :: but of course I know there’s a wide gap between trying to sell them … and actually selling them.

      You say you’re in real estate not in IM … but what I see is you trying to sell IM to real estate people. That’s just IM.

      If you’re skilled enough at IM that you are fit to coach and consult with others … then why aren’t you just using your IM prowess to build your own real estate business?

      I can see from your web presence that you have read their words … and that you have taken massive action. You’ve spidered your brand {aka your real name … that you will still have ten years from now} all over the Internet in an effort to generate organic traffic that does not exist for you. Not to be mean … but I can tell from your very few posts … that you don’t have a foundational understanding of the interwebs. But what you really need to succeed … is expert level mastery … or the gods greatest luck. Mike and Frank and all their boyfriends can’t sell you either one.

      I saw that one of your accounts was @FracturedPoet … sounds good to me … but when I clicked it I just saw more tweets about Mike and Paul and $7 tutorials. What happened to your poetry Frances? Did it get eaten by Internet Marketing?

      When I look at your sites … I just feel sadness. It’s really hard for me to sleep … cause it just never fucking ends. Piles and piles of sadness. The ironic cherry on top is that Mike sleeps fine … he doesn’t care that he’s sent your life spinning into the wind with no thought of where you’ll land. But I do care :: and I can’t sleep … and it’s brought me back to this keyboard a thousand times to do this …

      Frances Flynn Thorsen :: both of my hands are on your shoulders right now and I’m looking you str8 in the eyes … you can’t make money online.

      1. @SD,

        “I saw that one of your accounts was @FracturedPoet … sounds good to me … but when I clicked it I just saw more tweets about Mike and Paul and $7 tutorials. What happened to your poetry Frances? ”

        I figured it – nonsense verse!

        1. @Jack, He’s one of the good poems I found up on http://twitter.com/fracturedpoet

          “WordPress Tutorial Library – Get Lifetime Access to 100+ WordPress…
          WordPress library – 105 videos, lifetime access $7 this week only.
          Complete WordPress training for $4. (This is crazy, I know!)
          75+ WordPress video tutorials for $4? Yep!”

          Such the nice post-beat poetry flavor.

          1. @Frances Flynn Thorsen, I didn’t know about so many of the numbers having copyrights on them. I think it can make it bad for the economy if so many numbers can’t be used without paying royalties.

  16. @Jack – hey doing nothing but pimping affiliate crap on Twitter is all of a sudden “poetry” LOL. I guess as much as reselling old stuff over and over to the same customers is a “Revolution”

  17. My, my.

    I’ll weigh in once more here before I call it quits on this toxic thread.

    “If you’re skilled enough at IM that you are fit to coach and consult with others … then why aren’t you just using your IM prowess to build your own real estate business?”

    I’m a 60-year-old grandmother, Mister Wise Ass. I moved to Arizona five years ago and decided not to spend my time getting to know the area to sell real estate. I write and teach and I enjoy that.

    I’m amazed you would take the time to select a few tweets and suggest those tweets define my expertise. That is a lazy man’s technique totally consistent with the rest of the garbage in the original post and 99% of the comments.

    All the bitching and bellyaching on this thread reflect an IM wannabe syndrome by people too lazy to weigh all the facts. The blog post is poorly written, poorly researched. It’s easy and a lot more fun to blame other people for your failure to achieve success online.

    I’m speaking as a human being right now, not an IMer, not a real estate educator, just a person.

    Mike Koenigs and Paul Colligan exercise a large measure of due diligence in their work. They are highly articulate, generous souls. I learn a lot from them. I like them as people. I respect them. I am growing in my business daily thanks to a content delivery system that works for me.

    As a 60-year-old woman I can imagine how proud their mothers are to have sons who are highly accomplished, fine people.

    I look at this thread and I read the toxic post and comments and I cannot say the same thing. This is not a blog post that would make a mother proud. The comments on this thread are not comments that would make a mother proud.

    I think this post is nothing more than a blog gangbang. I think it’s shameful. I’ve had my say. I have work to do. That will be all, folks!

    1. @Frances Flynn Thorsen,

      Frances…of course you find Mike, Paul, et.al. to be kind and generous souls that care about you.

      The devil does not come with a scowl on his face and the smell of sulfur in the air!

      He comes as the selfless friend you never had…whose only desire is your betterment (and to offer you the one-true-path to Traffic-Gyser-Instant-Customer-Wealth-Creation through his Mastermind-Guru-Secret-System)

      ***aside: who the hell talks like that in the real-world…no legitimate business person uses such vocabulary…that alone is all you need to know to spot these freaks***

      Look Frances, I know some of these people face-to-face. Perry Belcher is a wonderfully charming person that just wants to be your friend and show you how to be successful. At least that how he seems…and that’s his reputation in the Austin tech community. Ditto his front-man (and the mustard on his wiener) Ryan D.

      I only recently started digging into some of these characters (which is how I stumbled upon the Salty-One) and as I’ve passed some of this information around to people I know in the Austin tech community they’re SHOCKED.

      NO ONE knew that Perry was a felon…or that he was the “hot-dog man”…or the “the ice-cream truck man” (granted, these weren’t people working with him…just people that intersected with him at tech networking events).

      And Frances…I can ASSURE you Mr. Mike doesn’t have an equally high opinion of YOU. I’ve been to the IMP (Internet Marketing Party) events where these slim-balls will openly discuss “whose your Homer?”…”how do you trick your Homer into giving up his c/c”, etc. (as in Homer Simpson).

      I know this is not an easy reality…but Frances you’re just another Homer to Mike (and his ilk)…sorry

      (sorry js…hope I’ve not offended your exaggerated sense of brevity or high literary sensibilities)

      1. @case, you are a truly evil person Case. Look at your comments above – ad hominnem argument instead of being able to advance a logically proficient argument.

        READERS – NOTICE HOW CASE FAILS BUT SO DO THOSE THAT BASH THE GURUS. THE GURUS ARE FOR REAL – REALLY AMAZING PEOPLE WITH FANTASTIC METHODS. BUY MIKE KOENIGS AND COURSES OF THE OTHER GURUS. I’VE GOT THEM ALL. ITS REALLY WORTH IT

    2. @Frances Flynn Thorsen ::

      I hope that is your last comment Frances :: if you’re not going to disclose your affiliations as required by the rules … the government’s rules not my rules. I hate to see nice old grandmas breaking the law. Reveal your affiliate relationships … or shill elsewhere.

      I’m an expert at being an asshole Frances … but I’m being nice to you. Did you notice? Funny/scary that your brain wouldn’t allow you to return the courtesy because I stand in opposition to your closely held delusions.

      According to you I’m an IM wannabe hater that can’t write or do research … and not even my mother could be proud. Pretty much what every other shilling troll that’s ever rolled in here has said. I think my moms might disagree though :: you can read some of her comments if you want …

      http://saltydroid.info/colleens-last-day/comment-page-1/#comment-25710
      http://saltydroid.info/the-malinchak-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-58236
      http://saltydroid.info/salty-droid-2011/comment-page-1/#comment-74849
      http://saltydroid.info/oh-the-spider-book-club/comment-page-1/#comment-83164

      … oops! … Frances Flynn Thorsen … wrong again.

    3. @Frances Flynn Thorsen :: Classic move … calling the thread toxic w/o replying to anyone’s requests for specific verification of your claims.

      I’ve watched lots of people make the investment, spend their time well, and have remarkable results

      @SD responded with his real name when you tried to dodge the question of proof by saying you’d only respond to people who use their real name.

      Then you dodged the question again by resorting to name-calling & rhetoric about this thread being full of a bunch of meanies.

      So, you don’t even have the meaningful discussion you promised by your own criteria!

      And you wonder why people here are skeptical…

      Prove it or give up.

      Name names, and describe the successes you’ve seen with specific details. I dare you.

        1. @Charles Frey, Apparently Mike taught you to repeat yourself all over the place again and again and again.

          No one’s listening because you do need to show some proof. You know — not Photoshop stuff but point to your videos, your sites. Show us what you got from Mike for $120,000.

          Or please shut up.

          And…even if you do show us proof (not counting on it) — please do it once.

    4. @Frances Flynn Thorsen, mr. Mike Koenigs has generously told people about How To Spam Videos. From TG itself:

      “First, get the software here:
      http://www.erightsoft.com/Superdc.html

      This software will take any video format and “transcode” from one format into another.

      Why should you care or what would you use this for?
      Well, if you would ever wish to take a video you have and submit it again (multiple times) in order to gain a search engine result with different keywords, you’ll need to convert the video first.

      So in other words, if your original video is AVI, you can covert into MP4, WMV and QuickTime formats to achieve your goal.

      Most of the video search engines won’t let you submit the same video multiple times. This will effectively create a “new” video. The search engines can’t tell one video from another if you supply it in a different format.”

      But, it’s OK, because you can just follow your conscience for it – although the Mike Koenig’s >50% audience that is newbies (Mike Koenig’s own words) probably don’t even know they are violating terms.

      Although some like Cassie in the comments here think maybe some TG suggestions might just “seem wrong”:

      “I think you are spot on saying Traffic Geyser’s videos are primarily from internet marketers, hence the reason they submit to over 20 sites I have never heard of. After submitting my very first video on TG, I got an email from zoopy.com saying I had violated their TOS by posting a video promoting a product or service. I emailed TG asking what to do, assuming this probably happens a lot since the majority of their users are posting videos advertising products/services.

      They told me to create new user name and resubmit. Is it just me or does that seem wrong?”

      Violating Video Submission sites TOS
      Violating FTC’s No Safe Harbor Guidelines for Testimonials
      Violating TRUSTGUARD’s terms for using their security seals

      What more could anyone want?

      1. @Jack ::

        Too bad some asshole is trying to ruin it all by keeping people from getting scammed :: “it sucks” … but it’s just one of those things.

        http://youtu.be/-9yu7HF8j4E

        His Mom must be so proud. “Just Like My Child” … she must say every time she sees some skeevy ass Kevin Trudeau infomercial.

        1. @SD, I think I made some bad mistake about mr. Koenig’s TRUSTGUARD idea. It made more sense to me about why to do it after thinking it through some more:

          1. @Jack,

            It doesn’t make any sense. (I mean except for the part where it could give people a false sense of security.)

            Why have an http (no s) page with a security icon in the corner that you can click on that opens up an https page?

            On the main Traffic Geyser page, they claim “Our privacy policy keeps your email safe and secure. We will never sell, rent, give, or divulge your email information to ANYONE.” But without an https connection, they can’t really be sure.

            Even if you enter in (a fake or whatever) email and click the “Get Access Now!” the shopping cart page is still not https. The link starts off
            http://secure.trafficgeyser.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?merchantId=GYSER&ADD

            So no secure-ness anywhere in evidence. If you click through to check out, finally we have an actual secure web connection. But even then, my browser says the site’s not supplying any identity info. So, while you can rest assured that your CC info is being sent encrypted across the net, it’s still hard to say that it’s actually going to the website it’s supposed to be going to.

            Back on the main Traffic Geyser page, if you right click on one of the Trust Guard logos a pop up displays “Copying Prohibited by Law – This image and all included logos are copyrighted by trust-guard © 2011.” It’s a very amateur move whose intent is to prevent having the images copied. But I was just trying to copy the URL. (Clue to Mike: the images can still be copied by drag-and-drop, or failing that by a screenshot, not that I’d want to.)

            The Trust Guard thing is utterly meaningless. I mean–I get/think/know/grok that was part of your point or maybe your whole point, @Jack. But I mean really it is meaningless.

            It says (in a dang picture mind you) “This websites verification status is currently inactive.” Just like it does for this link:
            http://secure.trust-guard.com/certificates/saltydroid.info
            aaand for this one:
            http://secure.trust-guard.com/certificates/asdf

            And just wtf is up with Trust Guard? Who or what are they? I did whois lookups and stuff. Apparently they’re based in Utah and they love affiliate marketing.

            Matt Cutts probably doesn’t endorse Trust Guard. But Trust Guard wouldn’t mind implying that he does. ( see image of Matt down on the left-hand side of this page: )
            http://www.trust-guard.com/verification-process-s/22.htm

            Still, Mike Koenigs, and any potential customers he ever hopes to have in the future would do well to heed Matt Cutt’s warning words in the video that, that picture links to
            http://www.trust-guard.com/website-security.htm

            “Even if you’re a very, very good web host, even the tiniest little bit of a chink in your armor means somebody can slip through and possibly infect a large number of your customers.” — Matt Cutts

            So maybe Mike should fix up his site security. And maybe Trust Guard shouldn’t make it so easy for someone to use them to appear legitimate. That’s not exactly enhancing the average person’s web experience.

            The Trust Guard version of the Matt Cutts quote has edits to fit their needs. (for your money)

            I don’t trust Trust Guard. Their site seems to have the same sort of sloppy design as Traffic Geyser except not as bad. I don’t understand what you’re really buying from them anyway. A little security logo that auto-updates every so often? If so, then Traffic Geyser was last verified on January 5th of this year. The “service” Trust Guard offers is not, as far as I can tell, in any way comparable to what the actual trust authorities offer. But Trust Guard assures you that it is.

            Also back on the Traffic Geyser site the copyright at the bottom of various pages have not been updated to 2012 yet. Do you think he’ll get around to that sometime before the end of the year?

            Natch and stuff.

            Oh, also… The name Traffic Geyser? Come on, folks let’s drop the euphemism. All the Traffic Geyser ad video is really talking about is a spam generating system. I mean–even if your CC info goes where it’s supposed to, even if Mike sends out the “product” to you, even if it works, even if you get traffic… you’re doing it by spamming people. I don’t like spam.


            Furry cows moo and decompress.

            1. @Wyrd, LOL. Forgot to go to secure page for the video – but the seals are there, too – but it’s funny he put them on the non-secure page like you said.

            2. @Wyrd,

              “maybe Trust Guard shouldn’t make it so easy for someone to use them to appear legitimate.”

              Visit: http://bit.ly/LQKMd2 and you get to see some scammers faking:
              * VeriSign
              * GeoTrust
              * TRUSTe

              Scammers love to do the fake security seals.

            3. @Jack,

              I looked at that winebarn site. So I can see (now) that some of what I was complaining about being bad on Mike’s Traffic Geyser site is (I guess) kinda standard. I.e. I guess it’s kinda standard to not have much in the way of SSL and site identity verification right up until the point of CC processing.

              And, I’m sorry for going off topic, but that can’t be a good practice. And maybe the reason why they do it is ‘cuz they can’t afford to have verisign for every page. I have no idea what the pricing is like for the 3rd party identity verification thing, but I’m sure it’s not cheap.

              The thing is… without that verification, then, even if you check the URL bar to see that it reads the same as what Authorize.net says it should it’s still no guarantee.

              Although it’s (maybe even astronomically) unlikely that someone would poison a DNS lookup cache in some part of the country so that requests for winebarn go to a fake IP, without SSL with ID info, there’s no technical barrier preventing someone from doing it.

              So all the seals in the world don’t mean much at that point. Sorry, winebarn.

              And sorry for going far OT, @Jack. I guess I’m still in the process of learning what qualifies as legit standard online business practice.


              Furry cows moo and decompress.

            4. @Wyrd,

              “The thing is… without that verification, then, even if you check the URL bar to see that it reads the same as what Authorize.net says it should it’s still no guarantee.

              Although it’s (maybe even astronomically) unlikely that someone would poison a DNS lookup cache in some part of the country so that requests for winebarn go to a fake IP, without SSL with ID info, there’s no technical barrier preventing someone from doing it.”

              Shows the big mess of Internet Security:

            5. @Wyrd,

              I made in-house tech-support buy me lunch and explain about the seals.

              If you have a VeriSign or GeoTrust seal on your website, it’s because you bought your SSL certificate from them. Usually the seals are only placed near the checkout because visitors think about security when they pull out their credit cards. For the SSL certificates themselves, you buy them per domain, but you do have to specify the subdomain or you can get browser warnings that the domain doesn’t match the certificate, e.g., http://www.saltydroid.info versus saltydroid.info. You also need to specify the IP addresses you’re using, so if you have server sprawl and multiple subdomains, it makes a lot of sense to only use SSL on the server that’s used payment processing and/or other personally identifiable information.

              The SSL certificate is what makes the all-important lock show up in your browser. So if you’re seeing a VeriSign or GeoTrust seal, you should also see the little lock. (There’s a plugin you can install on newer versions of Firefox to get your lock back, BTW.)

              SSL certificates from GeoTrust start at $150 per year, and VeriSign certificates start at $399 per year. For those prices, you get the certificate you install on your server, use of the seal, and a warranty that pays out in the $1 million range if your secured data is breached. This cost is high enough that no one’s gonna go around casually buying SSL certificates for sites that don’t process personal info, but if you’re really an “Internet millionaire” – implying you personally banked $1-million-plus after margins, overhead costs and taxes – you’d just pay it. Why spoof a seal when you can buy a real one – and the SSL certificate you need – for a few hundred bucks?

              Payment gateways like Authorize.net also allow their customers to use their seals for no additional cost. Authorize.net’s basic pricing is $20 a month plus $0.10 per transaction. Like SSL certification, a payment gateway is a necessity for online vendors. Even if you are also processing credit cards offline through another payment service, the online payment gateways take on the gigantic stress of capturing and securing customers’ credit card numbers online.

              So for both SSL certs and payment gateways, you’re not paying for the seal, per se, you’re paying for a service you need that gives you free-with-purchase use of their seal.

              Then there are the sort of extraneous seals for “Security as a Service” options like McAfee. Technically you’re paying for a service, but I think here the desire for a seal plays into the decision more than when buying the SSL certs and payment gateway services you know you need.

              So Trust Guard falls into the third, extraneous SaaS category. But look at their copy! OMG! They are not appealing to security professionals (or proofreaders):

              In simple terms, SSL certificates scramble a customers personal information so it can travel safely from their computer to your website where it is unscrambled safe and sound. They are kind of like armored trucks similar to the ones banks use to move money safely from one place to another. Well, imagine that armored truck taking your customers precious personal data and traveling safely all the way through the Internet maze to your website. It’s a comforting image.

              (From the SSL Certificate page saying they don’t provide SSL certificates.)

              @Jack,

              Now I know what in-house tech-support meant by, “Man-in-the-middle attacks are not the most common thing.” And, contrary to the video, GeoTrust does make phone calls. They call Human Resources to verify that the individual requesting the certificate does work there and is authorized to purchase certificates on the organization’s behalf.

            6. @Jack,

              Thanks, oh bearer-of-uncomfortable-truths. I was vaguely aware that SSL, like anything, was not exactly perfect. But I had rather hoped that they would not still have such large vulnerabilities on a technical level.

              atm,I’m still thinking a site with a cert and SSL is a loot more secure than one without it. But that coiled just be my wishful thinking gating the better of me. It does that sometimes.

              @Lanna,

              Thanks!

              You are very good at communicating complicated technical information clearly.

            7. @Jack,

              As I read through my comment I feel I might have come across as overly snarky towards you. Sorry about that.

            8. @Wyrd,

              This is the best security advice I’ve heard: To reduce the chances of having your bicycle stolen, lock it next a nicer bicycle with a similar lock or a similar bicycle with a crappier lock.

              SSL with a valid cert is a better lock. Hopefully malevolent hackers will decide that your data isn’t worth cutting through the SSL and move on to some similar data that’s not secured as well. Or, if they’re smart enough to get through SSL, they’ll target a website with nicer data.

              If Anonymous could hack HB Gary, I’m pretty sure USAF hackers, Râmnicu Vâlcea residents and professional hacktivists like the guy in @Jack’s video can hack just about anything. But is it worth it?

              However, I also think that SSL use shows that the people behind the website understand security and are probably taking more security measures behind the scenes. At the very least, they’ll recognize a security breach sooner rather than later and do the notification required by law.

      2. @Jack, The above comments are rubbish man. I have generated well over a million after tax in dollars (not in british pounds yet, trying my hardest) using traffic geyser for three years running now. Why do you seek to harm the best online marketer on the planet?

        In fact, i take it back – harm him – the less people that use him the less competition I have! go ahead!

        1. @Charles Frey,

          Charles…just post your URL’s and let people here see and decide on their own as to the results of Mike’s systems. There could be no greater proof than the actual end-results!

          Anyone can make vacuous claims…show us the reality of what Mike has helped you create…

          1. @Case, Good call. I was sorta’ hoping to see what Mr. Frey got from Mike for $120,000.

        2. @Charles Frey ::

          What a sad and pathetic little liar you are.

          Use some of your fake millions to buy a fucking clue.

    5. @Frances Flynn Thorsen,

      1. So the “bitching and bellyaching on this thread reflect an IM wannabe syndrome by people too lazy to weight the facts” huh?

      What facts. @SD gives us a bunch of facts…all the time. You, however, refuse to give any facts. So what exactly are we supposed to weigh the Droid’s facts against? Your unsupported assertions?

      2. “this blog post is poorly written and poorly researched”.

      Did you read it before you commented on it? You’re aware that it’s just an intro by Droid to a piece written by someone who worked for Mike right? What better research is there than actually being present to experience first hand how a person behaved?

      3.”It’s easy and more fun to blame other people for your failure to achieve success online.”

      Lots of people here don’t blame anyone for anything other than being a criminal. Also, lots of people here don’t want to be IMers. They just don’t like to see people be ripped off. Lastly, nice job playing “blame the victim” here. This entire sentiment is an old and tired tune the scam artists have been overplaying for quite some time. But congrats on the gas lighting.

      4. “I’m speaking as a human being right now, not an IMer, not a real estate educator, just a person.”

      Huh, I was speaking to you as a person before. I’m doing it now too. I’m sorry you weren’t speeaking as a person the first time. By the way…earlier, what was it you were speaking as? (Also, did anyone else read “real estate educator” and envision Ms Thorson teaching math or science or something to actual real estate properties?)

      5. “Koenings and Colligan exercise a large measure of due diligence in their work”.

      Again with the unsubstantiated claims. You know this how? Can you prove it?

      6. “This blog post would not make a mother proud. These comments would not make a mother proud.”

      What a ridiculous statement. I can’t believe you would say something like this. First you want people to give their real names before you will verify arguments. Then you start victim blaming claiming that people who were defrauded are just too lazy to be successful (without having any freaking clue what kind of work or effort they may have put into their projects). Now you are trying to use their own mothers to shame them?!?!?! That’s pretty twisted lady. I would say “how dare you” but I’m saving that for:

      TRIGGER WARNING:

      7. “I think this post is nothing more than a gangbang. I think it’s shameful.”

      Holy! Freaking! Crap! Really?!? It’s nothing more than a gangbang?!?! Some person writes an essay on his(?)/her(?) personal experiences working with Koenigs and some people comment on it. That is exactly like being held down or drugged and forced to have sex against your will by multiple people one after the other?!?! Are you for real?

      I think you are the one who should be ashamed lady. And I think you failed on the whole “speaking as a human being” thing too. And I think you must be really terrible at teaching people how to communicate online and in social media.

      I second the motion that you don’t come back.

    6. @Frances Flynn Thorsen,

      Oh, Frances. Poor you.

      And I mean that. You are nothing more than a D-team lackey. A useful idiot who is sullying her name and reputation in defense of a bunch of lowlifes who would never give the likes of you the time of day.

      You harm yourself so much … for so very little.

      Oh, well. As my mom used to say, there’s no fool like an old fool.

    7. @Frances Flynn Thorsen,

      Oh how wrong you are! I am Salty’s mom and I couldn’t be prouder! My son is a kind and caring man. He feels the pain and horror of the people taken in by all the crazies just out to make money without regard to the lives they destroy. He could have chosen an easier path in life, but then who would protect the scammed against people like you, who just have their head in the sand?

    8. @Frances Flynn Thorsen,

      I’m speaking as a human being right now, not an IMer

      I always knew the two were not synonymous.

  18. Why does this whole story on Mike Koenigs sound just like what Stephen Pierce (www.successsculpting.com) does with his AIM program software? All these guys went to the same Guru School, buy from the same PLR providers, wear the same phony smile, and sell the same blue sky. I am ashamed that the government goes after so few of them.

      1. @Charles Frey, Is it true about people being able to purchase mr. Koenigs? Is he selling himself for the $1,997, too?

        1. @Jack,

          Probably not…he’s a Houston boy…and BYU Alum (do they have a special program there these types?)

          He peddles lots of dubious “advice” to the incredulous and the feeble-minded…
          http://www.marketingblogger.com/

          http://www.makethegrade.com/
          http://www.themarketingbible.com/
          http://www.instantreferralsystems.com/
          http://www.market-your-services.com/
          http://www.marketingbestpractices.com/

          …and he’s got another 137 just like these.

          He offers such gems of advice as this moment in his $97 “Student Power Memory System”
          ———————————–
          Here how to use “Association” to remember the name Ronald Reagan:
          “Imagine Bob Marley, the King of Reggae music with a beehive on his head getting stung and running all over. “Reggae” sounds almost like Reagan.”

          I LOVE his affiliate marketers though…such as: http://www.talewins.com/

          1. @case,

            Tale Wins….”For Deep Web Profits”

            I feel a little bad picking on the D-list, but that site gives me kind of a @Horse_ebooks vibe. It borders on being a dadaist collage of sad, sad graphic design.

          2. @case,

            I’m concerned about why these two lines appear together:

            Horse Lover Faqs
            There is only ONE WAY Sex will Sell on the web.

            1. I read this:

              We also do the HUGE soft back full color covers
              in the 4,000 pixel wide format

              and thought anyone who’s doing print design in pixel-widths is not the best source. And then I saw there’s a disclaimer to that effect:

              Remember, I don’t claim Tale Wins is the best source of book covers
              If you can afford better work I recommend:

              I hate to say the same thing as the scammers, but if you’ve invested your time in writing, editing and proofreading your book, you should invest in a professional-looking cover!

            2. @, Poor taste executed with clip art by amateurs. BUT it’s only $14.95 and with those covers, you MIGHT sell enough of them to cover the cost.

        2. @Jack, how dare you insult my brother David. He is a good Christian man.

          How dare you insult my friend Mike Koenigs. He is the real deal. An amazing man. He has so much stuff out there for “free”.

          i TOLD HIM NEVER TO PUT UP FREE STUFF but he doens’t listen. HE SHOULD CHARGE $10K for products like any other professional Harvard trained consultant. He charges only $5k or some other lower figure.

          He is for real though

  19. Love reading your articles, find them highly amusing and does it make me question the authenticity of the “gooroos” out there? Absolutely!

    As I do not, consider myself a “Sheeple”, I am also one who appreciates two sides to a story as it were?

    However, saying “you cannot make money online” detracts from “your” authenticity and is also very “misleading”. Many of us do market our business models successfully online, using search engines PPC traffic.

    I am in the travel business sector and this is the best way to get my “message” out there with the best ROI.

    Just thought that as you seem so adamant on telling it like you see it, then perhaps you should also respect those who are making money in the online retail sector.

    My regards

    Amanda

    1. @Amanda Robertson,

      Amanda,

      First…I’m certainly not speaking for the Salty-One, but I do think there’s a distinction to be made here.

      It sounds like you sell travel services and use the web as a marketing medium and PPC as an advertising channel.

      You’re not in “the internet business” in the same way that Ford isn’t in the “TV business”…even though they push a lot of spend through that particular advertising channel.

      The people the Droid focuses on are the modern-day equivalent of the old ‘get-rich-working-from-home’ direct-mail types and MLM cultists.

      And no…no one made money from any of those work-from-home schemes!

      Sounds like you’ve been successful in using online as a marketing tool…but you make your money in a real-world business that sell something of real value…

    2. @Amanda Robertson,

      I think it’s important for Salty to take a strong stand against the “You can make millions of dollars online” messaging that’s out there. Plus, he’s a fake robot. It’s all zeros and ones in his head. On or off. Can or can’t. There’s no room for maybes beneath his ballistic-plastic panels.

      He’s not saying “people can’t make money online.” He’s saying “you,” as in, the people who type a guru’s name into the magic box on their MSN home page and find this site. Mike Koenigs says you can make millions online, but you can’t.


      Chris Bartold :: Do you know what a search engine is?

      Real Debbie :: sort of …

      “You” only sort of know what a search engine is! How in the world can “you” make money off one?!

      Mostly the people who are making money through online marketing agree with or don’t give a shit about the tagline. It’s a healthy message for friends, family and acquaintances who think there’s some magical button on the computer that shoots out money. I was a little confused why you’d comment just to complain about the tagline if you’re busy selling travel services, but I see from your comment below you’re really a half-in-half-out.

  20. @ Case, thanks for the clarification. I am never totally comfortable when people cannot stand behind their own identity – what is your real name? :-)

    Fair enough, I have also been involved in the IM space and as a rule, agree that the majority, are “all Fur coat and no knickers” kind of people, but there are a few exceptions to the rule.

    The IM space, incorrectly teaches people to “fake it till you make it” which has made it a noisy chattering of false prophets and “business experts”(sic). Don’t forget the mindless “Sheeple” and “Gurufanboys”:-)

    As to “Salty’s” allegations, I have personally not had any business dealings with the “accused” so cannot comment on their legitimacy.BUT…….

    Surely, the FTC would be all over these people AND put them out of business if they were as dishonest as mentioned?

    If people know for certain and have facts of “charlatan behaviour”, they should report the dishonesty through the correct channels of Legislation?

    Anyway, had my five cents, so will get off my soapbox for now :-)

    My regards

    Amanda

    1. @Amanda Robertson,

      “Surely, the FTC would be all over these people AND put them out of business if they were as dishonest as mentioned?”>

      1. @Jack, sorry, I must have missed something?

        It may be funny, but when serious allegations against people are made, if these allegations had substance, then surely the law would have caught up with them? I am in the UK so perhaps things are different. I assumed the FTC were pretty ruthless in dealing with offenders?

        Amanda

        1. @Amanda Robertson,

          “It may be funny, but when serious allegations against people are made”

          SD doesn’t make “accusations”. He makes people see evidence and FACTS.

          It can’t really seem that you read the site. Maybe you came to promote http://mygrn.co/ which I can see is what your site is selling (I don’t know about GRN, but it seems like something S-DROID probably wouldn’t like).

          1. @Jack, What…. are they handing out prizes here for the biggest Dick Head? Coz if they are …I am sure you have just won it uncontested:-)

            I am sure Salty does do his homework and gathers facts, I just don’t believe everything I read, and yes as I have not had a chance to go through the entire site yet, my judgement is reserved until I read all the facts.

            The Judicial system states that people are innocent until proven guilty.I am sure as an educated person, Salty appreciates people having an open mind mind.

            And as for “promoting my business” – LOL – I entered my URL where it was requested.

            I am also sure that “Salty” does not appreciate you making decisions for him about what he would or wouldn’t like?

            Amanda
            PS “JACK” for someone with so much to say, whats your real name and credentials?

            1. @Amanda Robertson,

              ““JACK” for someone with so much to say, whats your real name and credentials?”

              Again NOT READING anything – even on THIS very page.

            2. What the hell is going on with the trolls asking for people’s identifying information on this post? Do they really think they’re fooling anyone? No one has asked for anyone’s real name and then all of a sudden on this post it happens multiple times?

              @Amanda Robertson, Why do you want his credentials? Why do you want his name? That’s quite creepy. What the heck does his name have to do with anything?

              As @Jack said, it doesn’t sound like you read this blog. In fact, it doesn’t sound like you read a single thing on this blog including the comments above about why people don’t comment using their real names.

              You are here concern trolling. It’s very obvious. You so rapidly went from being so polite to personally attacking @Jack.

              And furthermore, what credentials are required for giving an opinion on a blog? @Jack’s a regular around here, and he’s pretty freaking awesome. So it might be wise to back the truck up on the personal attacks.

              Now, the US legal system does provide that people are “innocent until proven guilty” before we throw them in jail. I don’t know how the legal system in England works but here in the states we don’t need someone to be found guilty in a court of law before we investigate, dig up facts, and form personal opinions.

              Lastly, do you know how hilarious it is for you to be telling @Jack about what Salty may or may not like him to do…the @Jack who is highly regarded and well known here. Perhaps you should think twice before telling people what Salty may or may not like.

            3. @Jack,

              “Again NOT READING anything – even on THIS very page”

              Ha ha! Ninja’d again by you!!!

            4. @Amanda Robertson, As “What the what” and I point and pointed out – it doesn’t seem like you read even THIS page. So it leaves open to some people the speculation of why you commented here. Spec-u-lation.

            5. @Amanda Robertson,

              “PS “JACK” for someone with so much to say, whats your real name and credentials?”

              I am every man. I am Jack!

              Because so many people like SearsCard, Heimarbeit Kugelschreiber and spiderman online games have visited my blog now I thought it would be time for me to explain who I am. And this is what I know:

              I am every man. I am the common man. I am Indian, Irish, German, and French. I am Jewish and Catholic and African American – well, I guess I’m probably not African American and maybe not some of the others, but i want to go on and tell you some more:

              I am the melting pot of America – the dreamer, the clown, and magician. I have seen mighty kings fall and empires crumble (not really, but I like how that one sounds so I put it there).

              When I awake in the morning I can see the victory of the sunlight defeating the darkness of night (I also found out that it’s called sunrise).

              And also I want you to know this – that I just realized that I’m probably not every man, because that would be too confusing for me and probably for you, too, so now i want you to know that I am but one man and my name is Jack and I’m also scared of this scary nature walk picture my sister sent me I think.

          2. @Jack, Oh, is that what @Amanda’s site is for?

            I’m sorry I called you a half-in-half-out, Amanda. I should’ve said you’re a victim-turned-villain perpetuating the scam cycle.

            Lots of the people profiled here have already been found guilty. Felon Perry Belcher springs to mind. James Arthur Ray was found guilty of negligent homicide. Don Lapre killed himself in police custody. Even good ol’ Frank Kern was found guilty in a civil proceeding brought by the FTC.

            Geez, can’t you click through to Jack’s website? He runs the über-popular blog “Jack Bewildered.” He doesn’t like to talk about it too much, but I hear he’s also raking in the $$$ with his scrolling captchas program. And he’s basically an SEO expert, too, because he’s always talking to Danny Sullivan from SearchEnglineLand.com and Aaron Wall at SEOBook.com and getting advice from them on how to make his blog even more popular!

    2. @Amanda Robertson,

      Hello Amanda…I’m Case…now we’ve been properly introduced!

      One of my failings is that I take people at face value until they disabuse me of that notion. I’m starting to understand why the Droid never succumbs to such weaknesses.

      My lesson for the day: I should ALWAYS do my research before being nice…

      You’ve got your hands in all manner of schemes and shills…from MLM…to work-at-home “systems”…to flogging Time Shares…pretty much the trifecta of slime there Amanda.

      http://goprou.com/amandarobertson/?site=LiveWebinar&t=Banner
      http://goprou.com/amandarobertson/?site=Gearup&t=blog
      http://amandamrobertson.com/mysecrets/grn-amanda-opt-in-1/
      http://holidayclubvacations.com
      http://amandamrobertson.com/mysecrets/magnetic-sponsoring/

      And from http://amandamrobertson.com/looking-home-business/ :
      ———————————
      We have three membership levels

      Silver $1995 – Lifetime membership allowing two weeks travel per year – ($1000 commission)

      Platinum $4995 – Lifetime membership – 10 hotweeks – 52 weeks travel/year ($3250 commission)

      Platinum Plus $12,500 – Lifetime Membership – 20 hotweeks – 52 weeks travel/year.($7700 commission)

      Global Resorts Network, pays the resellers the majority of the commission for selling the travel memberships. Our registry of luxury Resorts is over 5000 worldwide, with many of the resorts not being available to the general public without an expensive Time Share Purchase. On average, our members save over 80% on their accommodation budget which makes it possible to travel more frequently.

      It is therefore, easy to see why our home business model sells itself over and over in this trillion dollar industry.
      ———————————

      and from: http://amandamrobertson.com/become-total-failure-mlm/
      ———————————
      • White collar professionals aren’t interested in working 3-4 hours a night selling vitamins for a $500 – $1,000 check, so offer them a vehicle that they can Get Paid Today, and realistically make $10,000/mo within just 5 to 10 customers a month.

      • Buidling a MLM that pays out $10,000 per month requires building a downline of thousands. Get Paid Today and make $10,000 with just 10 customers or less.
      —-
      If you’re ready to find a business that will allow you to make $10,000 to $50,000 per month within weeks or months instead of years without the risks or headaches of a downline, then I’d like to invite you to continue to the next page where you’ll have an opportunity to meet the team behind the scenes of the most profitable G.P.T. model in the premier Top-Tier business world today who can show you…

      How To Make As Much As $250,000 
In Your First Year Of Business With G.P.T.
alongside Industry Top Earners…
      ———————————

      Really Amanda Robertson…so where’s the “Titanium TimeShare Membership”…is Platinum+ the best you got?

      1. @Case,

        My but see how fast and how well you do learn. I clicked through “And from http://amandamrobertson.com/looking-home-business/” and there’s a page for all these other products the very first link takes you some auto audio recorded sales page showing a capture of some click bank account where “andy & james” made over $2,000,000! Can you believe it?!?! Left the page, clicked again and now it only shows me a log in to their membership site. So sad I can’t listen to the recording again but I did click on the about page and whaddaya know….

        “James Schramko has become one of the most in-demand speakers on internet marketing in the world, and enjoys traveling while he lives the ‘internet marketing lifestyle’. James has shared the stage with many industry icons such as John Carlton, Eben Pagan, Jeff Johnson, Ryan Deiss, Chris Howard and many more.”

        Damnit! There was a teeny tiny part of me that thought “hmmm. Maybe @Amanda made an honest mistake. Maybe, just maybe, I’m being a little too hard on her.” See, I’ve been here for a while and I still don’t learn.

        1. @Case,

          came back here to read your comment below and noticed the first line in my comment above came off super snarky to me even though I wrote and knew it wasn’t. So just wanted to clarify that I wasn’t intentionally trying to be a jerk to you. I think maybe I forgot to take off my troll stomping boots before leaving friendly comments. I was trying to tell you nice work on digging up that info…so nice work! and sorry if it sounded like I was being a jerky pants to you.

          1. @What the what,

            It never occurred to it might be snarky…I found it amusing.

            Thanks though,
            Case

    3. @Amanda Robertson,

      You said: “I have personally not had any business dealings with the “accused” so cannot comment on their legitimacy. BUT…

      Surely, the FTC would be all over these people AND put them out of business if they were as dishonest as mentioned?”
      —————–

      Well you’re certainly sharing floor-space with a few here:
      http://www.updowner.com/g/guru+blueprint+eben+pagan.php

      BUT…perhaps you should look no further than your own favorites list:
      http://cdn.stumble-upon.com/stumbler/AmandaR1/tag/uncategorized-perry-belcher/
      ——————

      Perry Belcher is a favorite of yours? Really?

      Perry’s claim to fame is…wait for it…making million$ by selling FAKE pharmaceuticals to desperate sick elderly people.

      His excuse…to quote Perry himself, “I was making soooo much money I just didn’t feel like I could walk away…”

      What a sweetheart of a guy…a real stand-up for the cause of Internet Marketing…and one of your Favorites?

      Really?

      But Amanda, you’re in luck…you can educate yourself on your guy Perry right here on the Droid:
      http://saltydroid.info/rated-g-reports/perry-belcher/

  21. Ok first off, when I wanted to comment, there is a box saying NAME – I gave my real name. I did not realize I was supposed to make up a false identity to make comments?

    And yes, I have only just found this blog, great site, brilliant writing but obviously newcomers comments are not welcome.

    I will continue to read the articles as they are exceptionally well written and as far as I can ascertain as a “new reader” they seem well researched and factual.

    Thank you for pointing out the blasphemous error of my ways :-)

    Amanda

    1. @Amanda Robertson,

      First of all, don’t say that “newcomers are not welcome”. You can only talk about your experience here. There are a ton of people who didn’t have any problems the first time they commented. So kindly refrain from putting the message out there to any newcomers who may just be lurking that anyone is going to give them a hard time.

      Secondly, you just barged right into the comment sections, clearly didn’t read the post, clearly didn’t read the comments where there was already a discussion about giving our real names, and started giving shit to a regular commenter who has some credibility on this site.

      This site gets a lot of trolls. A lot of them say the same types of things and behave the same way you did here. Others are a lot worse. You sent off some very big warning signs that you are trolling and therefore you got the response you did. And the personal attacks didn’t help anything. Plus, virtually everywhere you go online, this type of behavior in the comments section of a long standing blog is going to get you the same response (or worse) than you got here. This was very mild.

      Lastly, why on God’s green earth would associate your business to your comments here and then act all snide and petulant. I’m sorry you behaved rudely and then got your nose out of joint when people called you on it. I’m sorry you needed someone else to point out to you that you probably shouldn’t just barge in and willy nilly call people a “dickhead” just because they pointed out to you that you were giving opinions without knowing what you were talking about.

      Finally, this must be your first time on the internet if you honestly thought that you couldn’t put anything but your actual name in the box “Name”. But I don’t believe that is true. I think you came here, linked to your business in the hopes that people would click over to it, things didn’t go as well as you liked and now you are throwing a fit and using this as an excuse.

      Newcomers are welcome, all the time, everyday. In fact, everyone here was once a newcomer (except the droid). So don’t scare people away trying to cover for your faux pas.

      The one thing you are right about is that the articles here are well written and they are factual.

      1. @What the what, What on earth is a troll??

        And I had no idea my business url would link to my name? As mentioned it is the first time I have commented here. And this is the first time I have been to a blog where real names are not used. You obviously have your reasons – fair enough!

        Tell me how I can remove that obviously offending personal URL info and I will happily do so?

        Why does the comment section ask for all that info if it is not wanted?

        Yes, agreed, obviously my fault for not reading through the entire comments section, I was commenting on the articles in general, not on the thread itself.

        Not everyone out there has a hidden agend . In one statement I am a Troll (?) sounds sinister and the next, I don’t know how to use the internet?

        Anyway, I will not let the comments on this thread upset me further.

        I will continue to come back, and enjoy the hilarious posts made by the very talented author.

        Perhaps I may even learn the commenting etiquette so that I do not get myself into any further trouble :-)

        My regards

        Amanda –

        1. @Amanda,

          It’s one of two possibilities:

          possibility #1)
          If you are truly so naive as to not know what “troll” means in the Internet sense… if you are truly so naive as to not get the gist of this site before posting… if you are truly so naive as to not even suspect that folks here would “google” your info to find out what else you’ve been involved in on the Internet…

          then, in that case, if you are truly that naive in the ways of the Internet, you most certainly have no business claiming to be an Expert on Internet Marketing.

          possibility #2)
          Of course, if you’re not so naive after all, if it was all just some lame game, then… The original cry of “troll” is valid, and now it’ll be like when they called “shenanigans” on South Park.

          ——–
          Aristotle gave us logic. Thanks, Aristotle!


          Furry cows moo and decompress.

    2. @Amanda Robertson,

      Again, you didn’t really read before commenting, did you? I don’t think any of the commentators here actually have “Head Honcho” or “Satan’s maid and her green card” on their passports.

      And it’s not about you being new. It’s about you barging in here and telling us what to do and calling the Vice Chairman in Charge of Scam Fighting a dickhead and trying to pretend you’re not a scammer. We don’t barge into your pyramid scheme headquarters and tell you what to do, do we? No, we do not.

      So feel free to contribute to the conversation, but don’t act like a clueless n00b.

      (At least old-timey scammers had to learn how to read a room.)

      1. @Lanna, So true. MY passport says clearly…”Who’s Asking” — that’s my real name and I’m standing by it. I just go by Head Honcho. :)

  22. Is anyone else getting tons of 502 errors when clicking around on this site? This is the only site I’m getting the error on. Just trying to figure out if it’s on my end.

    Thanks,

    1. @what the what,

      No, it’s not at your end. I’ve been getting blank pages a lot today. Just white, no content. One of them was all white and said, “y” on it.

      1. @Lanna,

        Thanks. That’s a relief. When I googled 502 error it looked like it was going to be a hassle if it was coming from my end.

      1. @Jack,

        Hmmm. I read your blog (too, too funny) and thought maybe that thing your blog was doing that made peoples computers disappear had followed you over to this blog.

        And if it did I hope you found a cure for the disappearing computers problem so you can give it to the droid and we don’t have disappearing computers here too!

  23. Funny how all the shills, no matter what arena they operate in, all use the same lines when they get “outed” for who they are in a forum or blog. I guess the playbook applies to whatever the industry is they operate within. There is always this outrage and they claim they have been misinterpreted, newbies aren’t welcome to post, yada, yada, yada.

    But Global Resorts Network is just taking two or three old programs, putting them together to make it look new, and then up the price in the attempt to make them appear to be high-end. But all they are doing is putting a new dress and lipstick on the same ole’ pig. Anyone dumb enough to join this turkey deserves to lose every dime they invested.

    Guess we need to take a closer look at this Ponzi and see if law enforcement would be interested in going after them; that is if they last long enough for law enforcement to take action.

      1. @Jack, I knew I couldn’t fool you. My real name is Elmer Fudd. We hope to have a few more really big ones to add shortly to our success stories.

        All we can do is provide law enforcement the information to help them in their investigations. It is up to them to file charges and shut the programs down, and we know they are overwhelmed with all the online Ponzi’s, let alone all the offline ones as well.

        This GRN reminds me of Coastal Vacations out of Australia of a few years back. I thought their fees were bad, but GRN has them beat hands down. But if you are going to steal people’s money, steal big.

        1. @Lynndel “Lynn:” Edgington, I recently came upon this Saltydroid blog post as recommended by a friend of mine. I have been feeling “disillusioned” in the IM space and I have been questioning the ethics of certain “industry icons” from my own conclusions.

          This seemed like a great place to find answers that everyone else seems afraid to voice.

          The company which I promote is GRN, yes they do the biz op side – how I joined but I “recently” made the decision to focus primarily on the retail/product side only. There is no upline, downline or any residual income paid with GRN so it cannot be classed in any way as MLM,( a business model I am very vocal about and no longer subscribe to at all.)

          We do NOT sell timeshares. We sell lifetime travel memberships. Big difference.

          I see by the response of each person in this thread, that I obviously am at fault for “barging” in here without following the “etiquette” – my apologies.

          I am not the “enemy” – no I do not know what a “Troll” is and you are right. I should never have referred to myself as an IM expert. Once again bitten by old blog post :-)

          I have stopped promoting many of the original programs I had on my blog.

          I am trying to earn an honest living in an obviously dishonest world.

          I “believe” GRN to be honest and decent and my dealing with them have been very positive.

          I respect and applaud the author of this blog and yourself for taking such a massive stance in your quest to rid the world of the dishonest elements.

          If any investigative Legislation finds that the companies that I have been promoting are scams, then I would happily pay the consequences for my ignorance.

          In parting, each of you who is fighting the scammers are obviously doing a fantastic job, however, not everyone who stumbles on your thread and says the “wrong thing” has a hidden agenda. I am just looking for answers and I think I have found them in the articles on this blog.

          My regards

          Amanda

          1. @Amanda,

            If we are correct and GRN is a pyramid scheme, you’re going to find that you can’t make very much money selling the retail product. At that point, you’re going to tempted to sell the bizopp side. Don’t. Listen to the Salty Droid:

            It’s like meat into a meat grinder :: doesn’t matter who :: doesn’t matter when :: drain um for all their worth. The customers AND the B-team … especially the B-team.

            You just save yourself … forget about these idiots.

            1. @Lanna Oberammergau, Please go ahead and check the pyramid scheme status. How can it be a pyramid when there is no residual income, uplines or downlines??

              The writer of this blog is trying to do good in the world. I would like to think that he does not accuse all and sundry of being in pyramids and scams. If evidence was found to the contrary, believe me, I would be more devastated than you realise!

              You know nothing about me, what I believe or my personal circumstances, yet you think that bullying, degrading and accusing me of being a scammer is acceptable?

              I may not be savvy with internet terminology such as Troll.

              I got out of the whole MLM, Biz Op space because it felt like a Cult. Have to say beginning to feel the same way with this thread.

              My regards

              Amanda

            2. @Amanda,

              How can it be a pyramid when there is no residual income, uplines or downlines??

              As of May 2012, “Global Resorts Network [is] no longer a network marketing company … Global Resorts Network is now a straight up affiliate product.”

              However, Google’s cache feature tells me you were promoting GRN as far back as June 2011, so I think it’s fair to talk about what GRN was up to before May 2012.

              Residual Income

              Members have the ability to earn residual income from their investment plus they can also make personal use of the perks whilst marketing it.
              . . .
              This specific plan does make residual income a likelihood for associates . . .

              Work with Sam Kim

              Uplines

              [Y]ou can call Global Resorts to see who else is “upline” from you that might be available to talk with you about some of your marketing options.

              – Kathy T. (full name on the site)

              It wouldn’t kill the upline to not get the very first sale of there new recruit. Would it?

              – jetboat35

              You sell travel memberships and the person above you (typically the one who signed you up) get’s paid and you make money when the people underneath you sell.

              All from Ripoff Report

              Downlines

              [Y]ou have to find or develop a duplicatable system for your Global Resorts Network marketing that can be used again and again for repeated success for all of the network marketers in your downline.

              Greg M. (full name on the site)

              Now, there are SOO many businesses out there that will give you HUGE upfront commissions on sales… what really makes the difference here is the income produced from downline members…
              And this allows you to get overrides on downline sales as well as overrides from personally sponsored reps.

              Adam H. (full name on the site)
              Affiliate Kathy T. talk is “personally focusing on marketing the memberships (not building a sales organization)” – aka her downline.

              Pyramids

              GRN is a pyramid scheme plain and simple.

              – bman3304 on Ripoff Report

              Half-Assed Aussie 2UP

              After an associate’s initial sale, which is transferred to their sponsor, commissions coming from extra sales begin to come in. This particular system is known as the Perpetual Leverage Compensation Plan. After the initial one upped sale, each additional sale nets a $1,000 commission for both associate and their sponsor or another individual up the scale.

              Work with Sam Kim

              Should Be Illegal

              [T]here should be a law against companies like this.

              – Ricardo

              It should at minimum be a conflict of interest if not down right illegal and punishable by the law to take the hard earned money and crush dreams of people like me who are just trying to make an HONEST buck by using this magnificent tool known as the WWW.

              – jetboat35
              Both from Ripoff Report

              Lying Affiliates
              “launched in 1999”
              “in existence for upwards of Twenty years”
              But! Incorporation Date:  09/19/2006

              Douchebags

              Reverse Funnel Marketing System was responsible for Global Resorts expansion. In actuality, their achievements are what led to the beginnings of Carbon Copy Pro.

              – Work with Sam Kim

              Crappy Opportunity

              [L]et’s face it … Travelocity/Expedia, … and the rest do the exact same thing for free.

              – bman3304 on Ripoff Report

              It seems to me that the business to be in when your an elite GRN marketer is to sell the advertising to all the poor shlubs that buy into GRN and the reverse Funnel System.

              – jetboat35 on Ripoff Report

              Once a customer has purchased the product, there isn’t a chance to provide them with additional products to purchase. This restricts the member by keeping them in a perpetual state of looking for new customers and is a serious restriction to the business model overall.

              – Work with Sam Kim

              Spun-Out-of-Control Affiliate

              Global Resorts Network is a conjugal based firm in the rove industry. They began to allure one public eye more than than cardinal years ago. Global Resorts Network has been specified the sole rights to marketplace a voluptuous motion cosh devotion. They dedication their members that both applicant will gain a lot of legal tender spell on leisure.

            3. @Lanna Oberammergau,

              Mark Hoverson, still owner of GRN far as I can tell, for sure has the MLM/MMO/bizopp taint on him: Here’s a video of him sharing a success story about how a fish used his “training tips” to lure some smaller fish into an MLM net*:

              http://www.markhoverson.org/

              And here’s a page where he comes right out and asks about “seed money” in the sign up form for his ‘free’ training video:

              http://http://www.myglobalsecrets.com

              Hoverson doesn’t seem like the kind of fish I’d want to share a boat with.**

              * This metaphor may have gotten away from me.
              ** And okay, this one barely makes sense.

    1. @Lynndel “Lynn” Edgington,

      “Anyone dumb enough to join this turkey deserves to lose every dime they invested.”

      Well not so sure if they are hoodwinked into it is how I can see that one.

      1. @Jack, I think Lynn has earned a few thousand get-out-of-victim-blaming-for-free cards.

        @Lynn, Let us know when the new success stories are up. Awesome work, BTW!

        1. @Lanna, Thank you for your kind words, and I will let everyone know when our new success stories are available.

  24. @Amanda,

    I noticed that you removed the IM affiliate links and recommendations from your site. From what I can tell you’ve pretty much wiped your site clean and posted a note that you were heading in a new direction and leaving IM behind. I so genuinely hope that this is true and you are genuine in your claims to find answers and get the heck out of the IM world. Also, it seems to me that you are still smarting from your interactions here. Please note that I absolutely do not speak for the group (and anyway I’m a very small – teeny tiny – fish here, I guess I’m just pretty opinionated and outspoken). I do think I am taking it a bit personal that you claimed newbies are not welcome in the comments section of this site. It makes me sad to think that by calling you out I would in anyway prevent someone who is sincere and genuinely seeking answers about, or trying to get out of IM, from using this awesome resource. (But then again, perhaps I’m really giving myself too much credit for thinking that I could really have that kind of effect. Regardless, I’d rather be narcissistic about it then actually have prevented someone from interacting here). So, in a way, I guess this post is as much to the lurkers who may be in the position you claim to be in as it is to you.

    If you are genuine, I highly recommend you take some time to read the old posts on this blog to get a better understanding of IM/biz-op and what’s wrong with the “sick machine”. Also, there are some incredible stories that people have shared in the comments about having been caught up in the IM world and serious damage it has caused. This “sick machine” ruins the lives of real people. It chews people up and spits them out when they don’t have any money left to give and these people could care less about the damage they leave behind. These scammers are already on to the next victim before the first even realizes what him them. (Don’t take my word for it, read everything you can here).

    It can be hard to think that you might have recommended one or more of these fools (Kern, Pagan, Koenigs, et al) and unwittingly steered others into the jaws of the beast. But a lot of times, people just starting out in IM don’t realize the damage they are causing. If you really feel the way you say you feel, you are just beginning to wake up and see that there is something not quite right about these scams. I think the fact that you are not recommending them anymore is a good start. I, personally, think that you should probably also post an actual retraction of your recommendations and that you don’t trust those programs anymore. (And if you had a list you emailed to, you might want to consider sending an email to let them know as well). And if you think this site offers some worthwhile information, why not recommend it so others can come here too and learn more.

    Lastly, I want to tell you why I personally responded to you the way I did. I take this stuff personally. A few years ago I was a trial attorney. I hated it. I absolutely hated everything about it. It was the wrong career for me. I had decided at 19 that I wanted to be a lawyer and I worked my ass off to get into law school. I worked with a single minded focus to get excellent grades. I didn’t go out that much. I didn’t have hobbies. I had only a couple of friends. I had two things in my life, my job and school. I got into law school on a scholarship. After the first year I knew I hated it but I did well (again, working at school with a single minded focus) and was in the top 15% of my class. Halfway through my second year, I called my mom and asked her what she thought about me leaving law school. I was so hoping she would say, that if I hated it I should just leave. I didn’t want to disappoint anyone. Everyone in my family (parents, aunts, uncles, grandma) was so frakking proud of the future lawyer. Long story short, I stayed, and was absolutely miserable. Then I got my first job as a trial attorney, I worked 60 hour weeks and hated every second of it. After a few years I couldn’t do it anymore. I was broken and burnt out. I drove to my parents house in tears and begged them to not be disappointed in me if I wasn’t a lawyer anymore. I begged them to approve of my decision to leave my job, my career. I needed them to approve of it because I felt like a complete failure. I was twenty eight years old. For almost ten years my entire life was devoted to becoming, and then being, a lawyer. It was who I was. It was the sole source of my pride in myself as it was actually the only thing in my life.

    They gave their approval because they saw how devastatingly unhappy I was. So I quit my job. I had some savings and moved back home to take some time and figure out what I would do next. I was as broken and vulnerable as I have ever been. I didn’t even know who I was anymore now that I wasn’t a lawyer and I had no idea what I was going to do with the rest of my life. It had never even occurred to me that I would do anything other than practice law. That person is exactly the type of person the IMers are looking for. And that’s where I was in my life when I first got introduced to IM. I stuck a toe in just to see what it was all about. A free seminar here, a free e-book there. I started planning some sites and writing some draft articles about things that I “had passion” for. I had absolutely no expertise in these areas and I had no business giving anyone any advice about them. But Ed Dale said I just needed “passion” and I just had to create “quality content”. So I did.

    Luckily for me, I was having drinks with a dear dear friend of mine. He asked me what I was up to and I told him all about my adventures in IM (at this point I was just starting. I had bought a few domains and had written a few articles. I hadn’t decided on a product yet to sell. But I was SEOing like a mad woman. There was always something in the back of my mind that there was something not quite right about what I was doing but I kept going anyway). He looked me in the eyes and said “I love you, and I know things are really hard right now. But what you’re doing isn’t a real thing.” All told I had spent maybe a couple of hundred dollars. And shortly thereafter I found Salty Droid. I think I read every article and every comment on this site in the course of one weekend. That Monday morning I got up and pulled the plug on everything. I just walked the fuck away. (Thankfully I didn’t have a list and hadn’t actually recommended any products. Hell, I don’t think I even had any page views. So I was able to just shut it down without taking any further steps).

    I am so grateful that my friend had the guts to be honest with me and that I found this site before I did any serious damage. It kills me because at one point, while talking to my mom about what I was doing with IM, I had encouraged her to get started in it. Every time I come to this site I think about the fact that I had almost fed not just myself, but my own frakking MOTHER to these people. (She told me once, “I don’t know what this stuff is all about. But you are really smart. And you are really good at research. So if you say it’s genuine, I believe you.” ) And I read the stories about people who lost everything and think…”My God. That could have been us.” I listen to this: http://saltydroid.info/scamming-two-debbies/ and I think that could’ve been my mom.

    So this shit that Keonigs, Kern, Pagan, et al say about not working hard? They’re full of shit. I was someone with an incredible work ethic. I spent tons of time on my seminars, writing articles, researching. And no one cared what I had to say. No one saw my sites. I didn’t “fail at IM” because I was a slacker. I didn’t “fail at IM” because I didn’t take “Massive Action”. I wasn’t successful because IM is bullshit. I wasn’t successful because I hadn’t started feeding victims into the sick machine. I wasn’t successful at IM because I ESCAPED IM. You know who is successful? The people that sacrifice others to the “sick machine” for the affiliate pay outs.

    And I didn’t get suckered because I’m stupid. I studied economics on a scholarship. I went to law school on a scholarship. I was trying cases on my own after only a year in practice and winning. Those things don’t mean I’m super smart. But it does mean I’m not a total idiot. The important thing is that I was vulnerable and scared and hurting and broken. That’s all it takes.

    So, @Amanda (and anyone lurking around who might be in the same situation), if you are for real? Good luck. I hope you get all the way out. I hope you find something that’s real and that will make you happy and that isn’t IM or biz-op. And if you are genuine then you will excuse what I say next because you will have read my story and understand where I am coming from.

    If you are just a troll here, like @Frances Flynn Thorson or @Charles Frey, then fuck right the fuck off. You don’t get my name because these fuckers have my name and they have more of my personal information than just my name from signing up for the scams. And these fuckers have no morals. They don’t care who they harass or who they destroy. I found my way. I am going into a new career I absolutely LOVE. A career that is an actual real thing. I’m moving forward. And these fuckers don’t get to be the cause any more damage in my life.

      1. @Case,

        Man, holy epic long post I wrote there. I think my emotions got the best of me and I took a right turn into “confession town”. But yeah, WOW is right. I read over what I wrote and I feel like Scrooge being taken back in time by the Ghost of Christmas passed or something.

        The funny thing is…I’ve been around here for a bit over a year. I think I’ve only been commenting for about seven or eight months or so (and only really actively in the last few). This is the first time I have told my story. I think, even though I know what I know…I’m still embarrassed I got involved in any of this at all. It’s taken a lot of working on myself and getting happy with my life even though I made bad(?)/wrong(?) choices (about all of it…school/career/IM) that I’m able to be completely honest with everyone here (including myself) about everything that went down.

    1. @What the what, I really appreciate your post. As I mentioned a friend recommended I come here as I have been very vocal in my dissent in an industry which I decided was selling dreams based on false promises. I will not even go into my life story here, I left a small version on my blog.

      I have been meaning to delete those posts for a while now, at least those posts last night spurred me into action as one does tend to forget the crap we believed in. I personally have never promoted or bought any of the products for the few names I have seen mentioned here. I did try and read more posts last night but kept getting an error message??

      I am promoting a travel membership, which I do know is legit. It is not an MLM anymore. I believe I am selling a great product, not empty promises to people who just want to make a living. If anyone can show proof to the contrary, then obviously I would be a fool to ignore it. However, so far all the dealings I have had on the retail side and as a member have been above board.

      I have had success in the IM industry but I have struggled with what I see each day around me. Everyone pretending to be something they are not. Anyway, the best lessons are sometimes the hardest lessons, but we all have our crosses of burden to bear. I know that I have never scammed anyone and I never will. I have been misled and I have been guilty of sending out that same message. I am very vocal on my Facebook. My “lists” were told months ago about my feelings on MLM etc.

      I believed (perhaps naively again) that the FTC were really putting a stip to the bad elements. What is the point of reporting them if nothing happens?

      There were a few articles on my blog which said as much but unfortunately they were not the ones displayed here.

      I managed to read more posts today from SD and have to say I am sickened that I actually used to have respect for some of those names mentioned….the blind leading the blind :-)

      I too have been led up the garden path by blatant charlatans who relieved me of money in the past and yes I do still feel scammed and feel that these (lesser known) people deserve to be reported.

      I will be a regular reader of this blog and I trust in time a worthy contributor to the commentary once I become more familiar with everything. In the interim, I will observe and learn and enjoy the articles.

      Once again, thank you,

      My regards

      Amanda

      PS – Do I need to comment under an assumed identity in future?

      1. @Amanda,

        I read your bio on blog. I hope you’re the real deal. (again, I refer to my post re: the skepticism it was hard won) and I hope to see you remain at this site and see that you do make the full journey so many others here have made out of ScamWorld – which btw, the post on the Verge article with the video (which is pretty recent) is a good one to check out too if you haven’t already.

        In terms of posting under a pseudonym…I can’t really say what you should or shouldn’t do. I don’t give my real name because I know for a fact my real name is on some list somewhere with other information (too much…it still worries me to this day what information I stupidly gave these fools). If you don’t feel safe or comfortable posting under your real name I can’t imagine anyone would hold it against you for assuming a new name (again, provided you are genuine – I give this warning because if you are not, I refer you to the post here – http://saltydroid.info/tim-brownson-life-coaching-in-his-own-words/ – for what happens when people mess about and claim false genuineness.

        I don’t speak for the Droid, but I also think that, if you are worried about changing the name you use here, you could always email him and say “hey I was posting under Amanda but I’m going to post under this name “new name” from now on to protect my privacy. Just wanted to give you a heads up.”

        Just my thoughts….it’s really up to you.

        And don’t worry about the typos….I promise that at one point in my life I got paid quite a bit of money to write important briefs that were submitted to trial and appellate courts. Clearly my “top notch” writing ability has taken quite a hit with the lack of use over the last few years.

        Good luck Amanda. This is one of the few times I really really want to be proven wrong for being skeptical about someone.

        1. @What the what, well I came in here blatantly as me, so no point hiding my identity now. Yeah, trust is something that is earned. Although I still take everyone at face value and still get burned, but I also dont want to spend my life not trusting people, as I think that would be a more miserable existence for me personally, There are good people in the world who challenge the status quo.

          I have lived in a country where we lost everything due to a murderous dictator – a long story – but I have never been afraid to speak out when something is so blatantly wrong.

          As mentioned I am here to learn and find out more about acceptable business practices and learn who and what to avoid.

          I thank the Author SD for speaking out and bringing all this information to the attention of the public. It was just the other day that I was ranting about there not being a place which exposes the “charlatans” :-)

          I think you will find I am not a “Troll”. Stil not entirely sure what that means, but it has got to be something nasty :-)

          I put this on FB a few days ago, hope it’s applicable here

          Then the Gods of the Market tumbled,
          And their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew,
          And the hearts of the meanest were humbled
          and began to believe it was true
          That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
          And the Gods of the Copybook Headings,
          limped up to explain it once more

          Rudyard Kipling

        2. @What the what, With a very red face, I have just gone through the previous postings on the threads – Ok – I was deservedly put in my place….apologies all round!

            1. @What the what, hehehe – fair enough, I was being a “Troll” – case closed. I will crawl back to my cave and lick my wounds :-)

      1. @Jack,

        It feels weird to say “you’re welcome” but saying “I just hope it helps a bit” seems dismissive of your thanks. So imagine I said whatever is a polite and gracious way to accept your thanking me.

        And thank you for the supportive words. Like I told @Q007, I’m still a bit nervous having laid it all there. Can ya tell, I’m obsessively checking back here on it all day. I’m finding it’s waaaaaaaay easier for me to blather my opinions all over Salty’s yard than to get really honest and personal.

        I had huge respect for all of those who have told their stories before….I have so so so much more respect for them now.

        So, thanks again, I really do appreciate the kind words.

        @ Everyone who has shared their stories
        Knowing now how it feels to have told something so personal I want to again thank all of you here who have told their story before.

    2. @What the what ::

      Wow :: that’s pretty great … thanks for sharing your story with us. It might have to be the next confesstimonial because I think it hits on lots of really important points.

      There are some other epic comments here along similar lines that should also be pulled and made into posts. I know I’ve previously ignored such suggestions … but even fake robots are allowed to change their minds.

      1. @SD,

        Thanks for the encouraging words and most of all for giving me (and so many others) a place where I (we) could tell my (our) story and receive such wonderful support.

        Although I know it’s a public comment so you don’t actually need my permission or anything, but anyway, I would be happy for you to use my comment if you thought it would be helpful to your work here….now I really just wish I had at least run a spell check first.

    3. @What the what,

      I just want to second, third and fourth what you said.

      It’s closely related to my own IM story; I’m a medic, but had a prolonged period of ill health and it was by no means certain I could return to medicine. At this point I was starting to blog about a passion, so I stumbled across the “blogging about blogging crowd” and fell for the “Third Tribe” schtick.

      I discovered this site as “Mean Site 2” in the Dunford-Navarro imbroglio…and had the same sort of reaction as Amanda at first. I didn’t comment though (Wyrd, with whom I often find myself in agreement, came here at around the same time, and commented largely as I would’ve done- so I learned my lesson vicariously).

      I consider myself very lucky to have found this site – I’m also just out a couple of hundred pounds…and I’m back at work so my back isn’t up against the wall.

      I think it’s there’s huge value for others in your bravery at putting your story out there…because it exposes the excuses given by scammers as the lies they are, and shows others that it’s not a question of intelligence – anyone could fall for these scams in the wrong circumstances

      @Amanda

      You might’ve made some fairly significant mis-steps at the beginning, but I’ve been impressed by your actions since (deleting your IM-wannabe blog posts and publicly apologising for your comments). Not that you’ll have been losing sleep over my approval, but you’ve got it anyway FWIW ;-)

      1. @Dr Geek,

        Thank you for your encouragement. I am so glad to hear that you are back at work and (presumably doing better in terms of your health). And I’m very glad that you found your way here.

        I do believe that so many people think, “Oh that could never happen to me, I’d never fall for something like that.” (about a whole lot of things actually). But so many of us are just one crisis away from making decisions we regret or dealing with circumstances we don’t know how to handle.

        I wish you the best!

        1. @What the what,

          Thank you – I am indeed back at work, and ill health is largely a distant memory.

          I totally agree with your “it could happen to anyone” philosophy – in fact, that was the name I originally posted under (but got sick of typing ;-)

          …and it’s still (sadly) all too true. We’re all susceptible in the wrong circumstances.

  25. @What the what, I applaud you for your honesty. I am truly impressed. I wish you the highest possible degree of happiness and success in whatever you choose to pursue. I have been reading/following SD, the posts and the comments for quite awhile and cannot remember a comment which was as heartfelt as yours on this thread. Just wanted to let you know.

    1. @Q007,

      Thank you. It’s very nice of you to say. Still a bit nervous actually for having put it out there so I really do appreciate your kind words.

  26. What the what: I too want to add my appreciation for your telling your story. To be honest, we need more people doing this, and I commend you for having the fortitude and courage to step out and doing it.

    The reason why I appreicate these stories is because it puts a “Human Face” on the industry, and people can relate to what you have said much more than myself just trying to educate people about the pitfalls in the industry by anything I would say.

    I only wish people could listen in on the phone calls I get from people just like them, and to hear their tales of woe, utter destruction of their self-worth, and heart-breaking situations these scammers have put them in. The only problem I have is I get far too many of these type of calls, and I want to do all I can to put a stop to them. We do that by doing all we can to help law enforcement stop these cyber-criminals in their tracks.

    So thanks again for having the courage to tell your story, and I know it has helped far more people than you will ever know. Much success to you in all you do always.

    1. @Lynndel “Lynn” Edgington,

      Thanks so much for your kind words. And I want to second @Cosmic Connie’s sentiments. It’s amazing what you do, day in and day out to help people who are victims of these scams.

        1. @Lynndel “Lynn” Edgington,

          Good to know, in terms of what you guys need to keep doing good work. Has also started me thinking…am back in school studying in comp. sci and there are a LOT of student groups that are always looking for some public service type things to get involved in (no kidding, some of these kids are just absolutely incredible re: the volunteerism they do). Although this area isn’t specifically software engineering/computer engineering, I do think educating groups about using the internet/scams on the internet is something they/we could be more involved in…if we wanted to do something and maybe get the word out about you could we contact someone at your site? (Of course, ya know, once there’s an actual solid plan & we get univ funding, so I’d have to do my own bit of background on you and be able to explain who you guys are and what you do, etc., etc.). Right now I’m just kinda spit balling ideas [I’m on the board of a couple groups so I have the privilege to be able to draw attention to some of the causes I’m personally behind.] Sorry to be a bit vauge her, but privacy and all that.

  27. Salty Droid is the real scammer.

    I’ve made over a million dollars using Mike’s system so far this year, so it is possible if you apply yourself and work hard.

    Now if you’ll excuse me my Bentley arrived at the dealership today and I need to go take delivery, after I stop at the bank.

    Commenting on blogs, Bentleys and banks.
    Such is the hectic life of the internet marketing millionaire.
    D’OH!

    1. @H. Simpson,

      “….my Bentley arrived at the dealership today and I need to go take deliver….”

      I’m calling it. ^ Didn’t happen.

      Hey….you wouldn’t happen to be an affiliate of Mike’s would you?

      Why don’t you give us details on this amazing business you created using Mike’s system.

      1. @What the what,

        Nobody in the business of Bentley buying needs ‘to go take delivery’, the auto sellers are fawningly keen to deliver to your doorstep (along with a few ‘free’ dancing girls if required, also) at that level of outlay.

        1. @fried egg,

          Point taken, I should have been more clear.
          I’ll be meeting them by the gate at the end of my driveway.

          1. @H. Simpson,

            It’s totally awesome that you’re so rich, @H.

            Look, I’ll tell ya what. I never really was totally sold on this whole be-your-own-boss Internet millionaire thing in first place.

            So how about this: You’re rich and it’s (apparently) easy so… just give me some of your money! It doesn’t have to be a lot, you know.

            (Some) Libertarians argue that instead of rich people being taxed like crazy to pay the welfare system to help out the disadvantaged, instead what should happen is that rich folks should just help people out of the goodness of their hearts or something.

            So, how about it, @H.? Me and my wife and five kids (one grown and moved out but could still use assistance) (one who’s 3 yrs old, autistic, partially deaf, and nearsighted) (one who has aggressive outbursts and Aspergers) (one who has various traumas) (one who we only see every two weeks) ought to count as a charity in our own right. And I’m not (all that) proud.

            I’ll set up a P.O Box and then you can just start sending me checks in the mail. ‘K?

            I mean if the money comes in that easily it should be easy for you to give some of it away and keep the Bentley. And the boat. etc.


            Furry cows moo and decompress.

            1. @Wyrd,

              Sorry, no can do.
              Do you know what the insurance is on a Bentley?

              I donate directly to the “disadvantaged” through local charities…because the government is “SO GOOD” at redistributing wealth.

        2. @fried egg,

          True, I’m sure. But I’ll bet the car sales sharks still go ahead and charge you that $500 “delivery charge” just like they do when the make you come to them and pick it up (i.e. “take delivery”)…

          The real scam is!–… ah, you all know it already if you’ve ever bought a car.

          Actually, regarding car buying, the real scam is the built-in loan office. That thing they call “financing”. That’s where they make the bulk of their profit on the sale of the car.


          Furry cows moo and decompress.

      2. @What the what, Yes, H. I would like some details myself. I’d like to know what product or service you sold. I see that as a critical variable. Please correct me if I am wrong, but my experience has been that most of the successful IM faces don’t sell shaving gear and ebooks about flower arranging. That is what their buyers are planning to sell. No, the IM faces who get rich do so by selling visions of Internet wealth, easy money, automated income while you sleep. etc…. EASY MONEY HAS A MUCH BROADER APPEAL THAN FLOWER ARRANGING. The IM face doesn’t tell you that…

        The other IM faces that i know showed THEIR Bentley and THEIR gated driveways and left buyers with the impression that THEY TOO would make that kind of money. But I never saw it happen, even if buyers did everything they are taught to do, even if they churned out those automated articles, even if they covered the earth with posts and links and video, those buyers NEVER made the same kind of money as the IM face. The buying public simply did not buy their little ebook or whatever in the mass quantities that they will buy promises of easy money.

        REPEAT….EASY MONEY HAS A MUCH BROADER APPEAL THAN FLOWER ARRANGING. The IM face doesn’t tell you that the system will fail you because you are not selling the same glossy dream that he or she is selling.

        Furthermore, buyers of this pipe dream do not have the same forum as the IM face. The high profile IM face delivers workshops, bootcamps, and weekend retreats where a potential buyer can learn money making ‘secrets’ for only $5,000 each. Some of them get on a tour and criss-cross the country behind high profile marketing campaigns like those offered by Get Motivated. I have seen them rake in $200,000 in one weekend. Then, some affiliate or syndicate member shows up to endorse the host or give his testimony to upsell buyers even more! These guys scam are a wholesale basis. The buyers is too blinded by bullshit to realize that they will not have the same product (easy money) or the same wholesale platform. Unlike their host, they will be selling their lowly shaving gear on a retail basis…one miserable item at a time.

        So I would love to know what you sold and see that URL because until then, I just have real trouble believing any of that story. Sorry.

    2. I think maybe @H. Simpson was just trying to joke around.

      Earlier on this page, @case wrote:
      comment-link

      I’ve been to the IMP (Internet Marketing Party) events where these slim-balls will openly discuss “whose your Homer?”…”how do you trick your Homer into giving up his c/c”, etc. (as in Homer Simpson).

      But sarcasm doesn’t always work well on the Internet. So people took @H. Simpson as for-real trolling and modded it to obscurity.

      Sarcasm on the Internet is very hard to get right. @SD is so good at it that he makes it look easy. It really isn’t.

      ANNOUNCER: KIDS, don’t try this at home…

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

      1. @Wyrd,

        arg! Got taken by the POE! Which is silly of me because now that you mention I even read that comment by him above….

        Pardon me. Carry on {backs out of room quietly}

      2. @Wyrd, D’OH! It got me, too! N..e…e…d m..o..r..e.. s..n..a..r..k…a..l..e..r..t…N..e…e…d m..o..r..e.. s..n..a..r..k…a..l..e..r..t…

  28. @SD Out of interest, did you ever think of focusing a bit on the other IM syndicates too? It’s great what you do with your outing of the likes of Koenigs etc, but what about the infamous ‘UK Crew’ which includes Chris McNeeny, Andrew Fox, Michael Cheney, etc. Or what about the ‘clickbank crew’ (not to be confused with other respectable merchants who use clickbank as a payment processor), e.g. huey lee, chris cobb, anthony morrison (ok you’ve briefly looked at anthony), etc etc.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love your site. Just wondered if its because you see these groups as the ‘lesser’ of the evils, or if you are ‘about to pounce’ on them, or if you think they do a more respectable job of what they do, or if it’s because they are mostly ‘low ticket’ merchants, so you’re not so worried about people charging $47 etc, it’s more the $2k monsters you’re interested in writing about?

    1. @vernon ::

      I’m writing about all of them … which ones I specifically name is incidental. It’s a story not a list … and by now it dictates to me what’s going to happen next.

      There’s nothing ‘lesser’ about the evils you’ve mentioned … and I know about both of those ‘crews’ as you say. And there is nothing ‘lesser’ about the evils of the much larger corporate/government people-destroying schemes and scams that these scamworld shitbags are just imitating sans sophistication.

      It’s a story about preplanned evil :: about staggering levels of government inaction and open complicity :: about cartels :: and about sheeple manipulated into mindless drones … apply it wherever you see fit.

      1. @SD, Awesome, a story, not a list. So long term I’m guessing you have a big book launch planned or something? This will be some great read, maybe even a movie. Koenigs and crew will HATE that haha. Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself lol, will be interesting to see where your story is heading. I’m sure it’d be a great hit.

      2. @SD, Actually it could be a movie filmed like that Super Size Me movie, like a documentary type indy style film. It’d be HUGE.

        1. @Vernon,

          “Super Scam Me,” wherein Jason tries to “make money online” for thirty days but has to stop early when his financial professional warns him of dire consequences if he continues?

      3. @SD, if you need real, actual, verifiable ( to keep you out of hot water) customer and employee eye-witness stories, just ask. some of us have documents too.

  29. Picked up the Bentley yesterday.
    My boat comes next week.
    I can’t wait!

    I’m making so much money so fast, I don’t have time to count it all.

    Are any of you guys going to NAMS in Atlanta next month?

    http://mynams.com/nams8-workshop-public

    They’re running a special promo $200 off today only.
    Just $297!

    …to sit for three days and listen to affiliate marketers pitch there affiliate marketing programs to other affiliate marketers on how best to market affiliate marketing programs to people like me.

    It’s gonna be a BLAST!

    1. @H. Simpson,

      …to sit for three days and listen to affiliate marketers pitch there affiliate marketing programs to other affiliate marketers on how best to market affiliate marketing programs to people like me.

      I bet they have good doughnuts.

      It’s gonna be a BLAST!

      Are you saying that because you think it’s gonna be a good show or because you (once again!) have a piece of radioactive isotope stuck in your back pocket?


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

      1. Go ahead and laugh guys, but while I’m in Atlanta tapping into some of the most brilliant minds of the interwebs, you won’t be.

        Don’t miss my seminar Saturday:
        “Heaven is a well Designed Squeeze Page”

        Right after I’ll be offering a special NAMS only deal.
        ($100 off of $197 – for the give-away price of $97.)

        “Squeeze Page Magic”
        “Double your conversion rate in two days!”

        It’s pure AWESOMENESS!

        1. @H. Simpson, I am posting this request again as you must have missed it earlier. As eager as you are to share your techniques, you would surely have answered this question had you seen it. So here goes again: WHAT PRODUCT OR SERVICE ARE YOU SELLING THAT IS MAKING SO MUCH MONEY?

          I see the product or services as a critical variable, and not just from an SEO or niche affiliate marketing perspective. Please correct me if I am wrong, but my experience has been that most of the successful IM faces don’t sell shaving gear and ebooks about flower arranging. That is what their buyers are planning to sell. No, the IM faces get rich by selling visions of Internet wealth, easy money, automated income while you sleep. etc…. EASY MONEY HAS A MUCH BROADER APPEAL THAN FLOWER ARRANGING. The IM face doesn’t tell you that…
          even if buyers did everything they are taught to do, even if they churned out those automated articles, even if they covered the earth with posts and links and video, those buyers NEVER made the same kind of money as the IM face. The buying public simply did not buy their little ebook or whatever in the mass quantities that they bought promises of easy money.

          The IM face doesn’t tell you that the system will fail you because you are not selling the same glossy dream that he or she is selling.

          So I would love to know what you sold and see that URL because until then, I have real trouble believing that you were on the same field with the same rules as those of us who are selling soap. Sorry.

  30. Whell ain’t these mens just the dickens! Lookers like a couple dozen people at the last Tony Robbins eevent didn’t have enough faith fer their feet to not get burned by them coals they walked on… Shame on them fer not being in the right ‘state’ to make mind over matter… If a they only listened ta Tony… http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_21125630

  31. This article is a superb account, and you’ve described exactly what is wrong with the majority of internet, software and technology companies including FACEBOOK!

    They are not sustainable business models. If your ‘required’ support staff costs (essential to call it a real business) outweigh your revenue, ITS NOT A REAL BUSINESS.

    Lets hope that dumbfuck angels, benefactors, investors, and the like finally get this – so we can rid the world of stupid-ass, post-grad created, inept, hair-brained, happy (I’m sure you noticed the nauseating ‘happy’, candy-floss marketing these days), wanna-be internet bazillionaires!

    And I’m sure you’re all sick of being a guinea-pig for crap technology and software products. PLEASE DON’T RELEASE THEM TO MARKET UNTIL YOU’VE BLOODY TESTED THEM FULLY!

    And relax.

  32. “The smart thing to do is, do what the successful people are doing. Instead of just buying from them, become like them, by finding out the critical factors and principles that made them a success.”

    Sometimes it takes a lot fucking around (and listening to docuhebag fuckheads) to get back to simple basics.

  33. I’m just wondering how Koenigs could fire such a smart, competent, concerned employee. Someone who was obviously try to help achieve the mission.

    Unbelievable hubris. Keonigs is such a fuckhead.

    1. @hello, Oh, shit. Another local news channel that doesn’t do their homework. Someone give them a heads up since their reporters (if they have any) have their heads in their asses. Sheesh.

  34. I bought Instant Customer Revolution as well.

    I realized how flawed the IC system was (especially in non-US countries), and in the training they kept reinforcing that it would work internationally, giving a whole lot of indirect answers etc.

    And the quality of TG pages are terrible, the SEO juice sucks. It takes forever to blast the videos out as well.

    The insider ICR community is also stupid as hell.

    (However I disagree with the general saltydroid opinion of “you can’t make money online”, there are tons of completely ethical and more profitable ways to do it, and not all “gurus” sell bullshit. Just my opinion. WarriorForum is still disgusting though.)

    Oh and ICR had a physical product component which took 1-2 weeks to arrive. And if you wanted a refund you had to mail it back.

    Well played Mike…

    I bought ICR because one of Mike’s products (MML) was actually pretty decent, though VERY disorganized and many videos were actually FUCKING RETARDED, his 1-3hr braindump of his marketing techniques in every module was certainly valuable. (Hero creation, storytelling and all that stuff he uses to sell IMers stuff – Except I use them to sell HIGHLY VALUABLE products and services.)

    His marketing skills are SUPER IMPRESSIVE I must say. And his ability to get others to believe in BS is just outstanding. I’m not sure if my intuition is correct but he GENUINELY thinks he’s offering valuable stuff. Either that or he’s a very, very, very good liar. I can NEVER do that, definitely not on a 6hr livestream pitching bullshit.

    That’s how religion started too… An idea no matter how stupid will spread if the person spreading believes in it enough.

    Anyway more stuff about ICR. The modules were TERRIBLE. After module 2 I stopped watching that shit altogether. It’s a pure waste of time. You could learn more spending 15mins on a certain forums / just on entrepreneurship youtube channels.

    I’ll really give them hats off for the massive effort on coaching people to work with the TG/IC system. First they’re working with really stupid people, second the system SUCKS. (Oh wait, maybe that makes it easier…)

    But really, why not MAKE THE SYSTEM KICKASS instead of spending so much effort selling bullshit and try really hard to make it sell / teach others how to use your bullshit for marginal results.

    I don’t normally spend time hating on others, but this cost me about $4K-5K my currency and it’s 100% BULLSHIT. (And I bought through a discounted link) I was massively disappointed. Could’ve used that money/time to do much better stuff too.

    Yeah… just letting that out of my system.

  35. Why would any one ever disparage these amazing entrepreneurs?

    These people are FRANK-ly fantastic : FRANK Kern Mike Koenigs Russell Brunson , James Malinkchak and so forth.

    Why would ANY-one EVER insult these AMAZING people?

    They offer FREE stuff and if you don’t like it you DONT have to buy their main product.
    And if you DO buy their main product, you have 30 days to refund it TOO. They are so amazing.

    SO I ask again, why would any-one ever disparage these genius?

    1. @chuck,

      I’ve done the reply with some capitals, just as you like.

      Maybe BECAUSE they CHEAT, LIE, BRAIN WASH, MANIPULATE, and exploit VULNERABLE DESPERATE PEOPLE, and maybe because their free material is nothing more than MIND BLOWINGLY USELESS BORING SALES MATERIAL WITH NO VALUE ADD that WASTES TIME and encourages PEOPLE to waste more time, and encourages QUITE A FEW to WASTE THEIR MONEY, on top of MAKING THEM WASTE THEIR TIME, which is a pretty big sin in itself.

      Maybe because getting the REFUND is not BY ANY MEANS ALWAYS POSSIBLE and also people are told that if they fail they need to BLAME THEM SELVES, because they are NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH, so they do not ask for the refund, as they BLAME THEMSELVES, rather than realising that they have been CONNED, ABUSED, AND RIPPED OFF. Also, when people realise that they have been CONNED, they blame themselves for being STUPID, and still don’t ask for a refund. However, they should not blame themselves, as anyone can be brainwashed, and should ALWAYS ask for a refund, even if it might not be granted, but even more importantly they should NOT buy ANYTHING from these guys who are NOT GENIUS*ES* but are common CON ARTISTS and SPIVS.

      SO – I hope this helps you, who patently is no genius, understand.

      1. @Random stuff,

        You are wrong. If you were “right” then you OR the whole group would be a MASSIVE MOTHER OF ALL “CLASS ACTION” LAW SUITS. This is the U.S.A.

        On that ground – you are in to defaming the business of good people. They are class acts: absolutely brilliant. Unlike you just “sitting there” trying to make a life, they and many of their students like me are creating money online using their methods.

        By the way, there are many that “agree” with their methods But not their “prices nor salesmanship”. But they have the absolute right to charge “whatever they like” and “sell however they want” and they do a great job at it.

        1. @Chuck,

          As you are still not getting it, again using some capitals…

          These shitsters prey on the vulnerable and the weak and the decent who would blame themselves for failure on things WHICH ARE DESIGNED NOT TO ENABLE SUCCESS EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE SOLD AS SUCH.

          These shitsters deliberately use ‘love bomb’ and psychologically manipulative strategies to DUPE, DEFRAUD, and DELUDE their victims.

          Their victims fall into the categories of – “oh well it was only $35, $55, $3,000 (ouch) $5,000 (huge depressing ouch), $10,000…” hopefully you are getting the idea, and “I went into it with my eyes open, so I am to blame”, plus the seriously elderly, or emotionally vulnerable, or depressed (often made that way by the methods employed by the shisters) who would not be able to envisage, organise or activate a class action suit.

          PLUS – the FRAUD is SUBTLE and CLEVER and PERNICIOUS.

          I am not defaming the business of any good people, and there are PLENTY of good people who make an honest living online, using all sorts of marketing and sales approaches to sell all sorts of products and services.

          However the people you mention fall in the shitster bracket, and not in the good people bracket.

          Have a read of http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/10/2984893/scamworld-get-rich-quick-schemes-mutate-into-an-online-monster if you are still not getting it.

          But also have a good read and try to understand the well researched and valid points made in every post by SD about these shitsters.

          But I guess really the only way for you to really understand is to hear the individual stories of all the hidden exploited ‘work at home dream’ victims who are repeatedly abused. Read through the comments on this website, and the complaints on other websites, just to scratch the surface.

          Chuck: by making money selling the frauducts of these guys you are not helping the situation.

          1. @Random stuff,

            1. Incorrect. You said “These shitsters prey on the vulnerable and the weak and the decent”. If this were true in any way, you can make over $100million in Federal court [which would have jurisdiction as it is inter-state].

            Proof: You are a false, lying, deceiving person with ill intent.

            2. Incorrect. You said “I am not defaming the business of any good people,”

            Readers and you: the above is defamation of good people.

            3. You call them “shitsters” – this is “Ad hominnem” argument, i.e. false fake argument.
            Once again in logical error.

            If only you had the courage to stand up – state your name. I will personally come and get you “under the law”.

            1. @, (whoever you are) – that was one pile of non-sequiturs.

              But perhaps I’m trying too hard to make sense of it.

              I’d like to know how I can make that $100 million, as you only have to read the posts on this website and the well documented evidence, and have a sense of humanity, to seet my perspective as reasonable.

              However I would have thought it was the victims who should, if they were not vulnerable, weak, or very well conned, get redress, rather than me?

              …and then you say “If only you had the courage to stand up – state your name. I will personally come and get you “under the law”.” Without stating your name…

              This site covers the indefensible. And then there are the “anonymous Chucks” who uselessly attempt to defend the indefensible, jostling with the spam bots, to find out who can throw out the best nonsense.

          2. @Random stuff, [Above Anonymous is/was me Chuck. Forgot to put in my name]. Reply to your comment. MY WRITING IS IN BOLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM YOURS. I AM NOT SHOUTING

            that was one pile of non-sequiturs.
            PROVE IT. THAT IS A BIG GENERALISATION AND THE FALSE USE OF LOGIC. YOU ALSO ARE TOTALLY AWARE OF THIS. YOU ARE DEFENDING YOURSELF INSTEAD OF GENUINELY INVESTIGATING TO SEE HOW THE GURUS ARE BRILLIANT.

            But perhaps I’m trying too hard to make sense of it.
            YOU DON’T HAVE TO TRY HARD. YOU JUST PICK ANY OR ALL GURUS AND GET ONE OR ALL THEIR COURSES. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. YOU LEARN IT. YOU DO IT. SIMPLE AS THAT.

            I’d like to know how I can make that $100 million

            IF YOU WANT TO MAKE $100MILLION, LIKE IF YOU WANT TO CLIMB EVEREST, THEN START OUT PRACTICING – YOUR LOCAL HILL, YOUR LOCAL CLIMBING CLUB, WEIGHT TRAINING AND SO FORTH. YOU DO NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT GET 100MILLION IN ONE DAY. NO NO NO NO NO . NONE OF THE GURUS HAVE EVER SAID THAT YOU GET 100 MILLION NOR EVEN 100 MILLION IN ONE DAY.

            HERE IS A WAY: CREATE A PRODUCT. MAKE SURE IT IS SOMETHING THE MARKET WANTS. SELL IT. WORK VERY HARD TO MARKET IT. MONITOR YOUR RESULTS – HAVE HARD EVIDENCE. THEN SELL HOW YOU DID IT (PRODUCT 2). SO IF WITH PRODUCT ONE YOU MAKE 100,000 , WITH PRODUCT TWO, LIKE THE GURUS YOU CAN MAKE MILLIONS. BUT TO PREVENT FRAUD OR GETTING SUED – BE VERY HONEST ABOUT RESULTS – JUST LIKE THE GURUS. ELSE THE GURUS OR YOU WILL BE WIPED OUT IN LAW SUITS (AND YES, THERE WILL BE LAW SUITS) OR THE F.T.A.

            , as you only have to read the posts on this website and the well documented evidence, and have a sense of humanity, to seet my perspective as reasonable.

            However I would have thought it was the victims who should, if they were not vulnerable, weak, or very well conned, get redress, rather than me?

            I AM THAT VICTIM YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ABOVE. I WAS ABLE TO QUIT MY $120,000 A YEAR CORPORATE JOB (THAT INCLUDED BONUS) AND MAKE JUST OVER A MILLION DOLLAR IN 1.3 YEARS USING JUST ONE METHOD THAT MIKE KOENIG RECOMMENDED.

            SO LETS GET REAL : THE “VICTIM” IS ONLY YOU.YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF YOUR MALICIOUSNESS HERE. YOU ARE CONDITIONED YOUR BRAIN NOT TO ACCEPT MONEY OR GURU LOGIC SO WHEN YOU GO FORTH AND TRY – YOUR BRAIN WILL BLOCK YOU.

            …and then you say “If only you had the courage to stand up – state your name. I will personally come and get you “under the law”.” Without stating your name…

            This site covers the indefensible. And then there are the “anonymous Chucks” who uselessly attempt to defend the indefensible, jostling with the spam bots, to find out who can throw out the best nonsense.

            DIDN’T QUITE UNDERSTAND THE ABOVE. I AM TAKING EACH POINT YOU OR OTHERS MAKE AND DEMONSTRATE WHETHER IT IS TRUE OR FALSE. LET’S IMAGINE I AM FALSE , YOU CAN AT LEAST SUE THE GURUS AND “TAKE THEIR MONEY”. WHY DON’T YOU DO THAT? ANSWER: BECAUSE YOU WILL LOSE.

            1. @, Hey, Charles Frey, YOU HAVE THE VERBALS IN CAPS!

              i.e. writing completely useless nonsense: e.g.:

              In what circumstances will Free Trade Agreements be wiped out in law suits? …or did you mean FTC?.. but still the sentence is nonsense:

              BE VERY HONEST ABOUT RESULTS – JUST LIKE THE GURUS. ELSE THE GURUS OR YOU WILL BE WIPED OUT IN LAW SUITS (AND YES, THERE WILL BE LAW SUITS) OR THE F.T.A

              Inventing earning a million dollars in 1.3 years, when the reality is you shill from day to day for that extra thirty bucks. Or some real evidence. Nah. No one making that money would waste time coming to this website to protest so much.

              Inventing $120,000 corporate jobs… why not post a link to your LinkedIn profile? Nah – no one with that level of salary would end up posting such gibberish (i.e lacking syntax and logic) to a website.

              Plus your ability to totally misunderstand the really quite clear points I have made makes further discussion useless.

    1. @Wyrd and Y’all , Whose “embarrasing” themselves? I don’t hide under false names. I dont go by emotions- only logic.

      If Frank Kern , Mike Koenigs or others are schisters they will be put down “by you” making you own their money in law suits. Very VERY easy.

      Instead they are rich and getting richer, with never ending product launches and you are stuck “complaining” with no money.

      Do the math. See the reality.

      1. @,

        I don’t hide under false names.

        … said the Anonymous Coward.

        I dont go by emotions- only logic.

        What logic? You mean this?

        If Frank Kern , Mike Koenigs or others are schisters they will be put down “by you” making you own their money in law suits. Very VERY easy.

        Lawyers aren’t likely to take cases they don’t think they can win. But it’s the quintessence of oversimplified simpleton-ness to think that whether or not you can win a case is a good indicator as to whether or not a wrong has been committed.

        Do the math. See the reality.

        I can do math pretty good. So can the Salty Droid. You should really check out the bit about power law distributions.

        http://saltydroid.info/copyblogger-six-figure-flogging/

        And pretty Unicorns.

        This is the reality of our world. There are certain sorts of people that do bad things and get caught. There are other sorts of people that do bad things and, because they know how to say pretty words and tell people what they want to hear, these people not only continually get away with it, but they even get free defense from rubes and trolls such as your fine self.

        I suppose you’ll happily defend Frank Kern also knowing he’s had several FTC judgements against him?

        But it’s all good. This is the Internet. Where everyone can argue ad nauseum and nobody ever resolves anything.

        You still look pretty foolish to me.

        Furry cows moo and decompress.

        1. @Wyrd, You said “Lawyers aren’t likely to take cases they don’t think they can win. ”

          You are in logical contradiction. Either “those people are fraudulent” or you are wrong. You don’t even need lawyers – you can represent yourself and file your own case in Federal court.

          Lawyers will take on your case because It is “very easy” to win large [$1million – $100million) judgment against fraudsters and the “internet gurus” have the money.

          The reality and the whole truth here: you are deliberately mischievously defaming these brilliant gurus like Frank Kern , Mike Koenigs or others .

          1. @Chuck,

            Going to court is only ever partly about who is right and who is wrong. Going to court is always at least partly or totally exclusively about who can make the better seeming argument before a judge or jury.

            But making the better argument and actually being on the side of “right” aren’t ever the same thing.

            What I’m saying is: No. It isn’t necessarily easy to prove in court that the scammers, scam. In certain specific cases, it might be. There have been large financial judgements against some of the folks you claim as heroes or whatever, or against Frank Irwin Kernes at least.

            The reality and the whole truth here: you are deliberately mischievously defaming these brilliant gurus like Frank Kern , Mike Koenigs or others

            This is a statement that you are making. This is an assertion. But simply saying it doesn’t make it true. In fact, logically, you can keep saying it over and over and that still won’t count as proof that your statement is true.

            In order to prove that I, or anyone else, is defaming the individuals you refer to, you would have to prove that I was intentionally saying or writing things about them that were factually untrue and that their characters and/or business interests were irretrievably harmed by my false statements. (or something like that)

            That tends to be an incredibly difficult thing for you or sometimes even for large corporations to do.

            It’s one of the few things that I can really feel proud about, about our country (U.S.A)–that free speech is still free here.

            Of course then I remember about the rigged-ness of the Facebooks, the Googles and most especially and perniciously the Twitters* and I become less-than-joyful.

            * http://saltydroid.info/the-chilling-of-the-dmca/comment-page-1/#comment-105437

            Furry cows moo and decompress.

            1. @Wyrd, Look at your words ” What I’m saying is: No. It isn’t necessarily easy to prove in court that the scammers, scam. In certain specific cases, it might be. There have been large financial judgements against some of the folks you claim as heroes or whatever, or against Frank Irwin Kernes at least.”

              You are offering “circular logic”. If you can’t prove your case in a court of law “for GOODNESS SAKES” then you don’t even have a credible argument. You are just “emotions” all over the place. You can say “aliens exist” and be all huffed up emotion but it means nothing in science or legal . You must prove it. You bear the burden of proving your defamatory allegations.

              I am trying hard to find out who you are so I can take you to court on behalf of the gurus. Your defence to a libel suit will be “truth”. Let us dance, give me your real name and address. Win this argument – this is so important.

            2. @Chuck,

              What’s up, @Chuck? That is you, right? I can’t see IP addrs like Salty Droid can, but I can (easily) notice the closeness of post times and the similarity of writing style. Lots of words quoted to show emphasis instead of to show that they’re someone else’s words. Lot’s of WEIRD CAPITALIZATION.

              I am trying hard to find out who you are so I can take you to court on behalf of the gurus. Your defence to a libel suit will be “truth”. Let us dance, give me your real name and address. Win this argument – this is so important.

              You want to take me to court? Seriously? I’m flattered or something. I don’t even run this site. I don’t think I’ve actually defamed anyone. I’m just stating my opinion-y opinion all over the place. Opinions are like noses. My wife likes my nose. (fnord}

              Also, you misspelled “defense”.

              this is so important.

              Yes. Yes it is. Listen now to the un-fun sounds of Jeff Walker and Any Jenkins talking about how best to f— you over. Note: that’s you. Not me.

              http://youtu.be/SYhivJdV6ts

              I would like to point out: Price Fixing is illegal.

              Furry cows moo and decompress.

            3. @Wyrd,

              “Defence” is the British spelling, and it’s sometimes used in Canada. Maybe Chuck is not originally from the San Diego area?

  36. I like to keep my information up to date. I wanted to update this page from the last launch/Scam Mike was running.
    I am not trying to be horrible here, I just wanted to see if Mike had updated his service. If he had I would absolutely let you know about how he has improved his systems. Sadly he has not improved anything from what I have experienced.

    I watched one of Mikes videos and actually signed up for one of his launches December 2014. Yes, you heard me correctly I SIGNED UP. Why you may ask? I don’t like having this page up and not being as accurate as possible, with my review of Mike and his Launches. His latest launch was publishing scam.

    I placed the order on12/21/2014.
    This first Issue: I was charged for 3 programs not one, as you can see from the receipt to the left.
    The second issue: I was supposed to receive an email with in 1 day of this purchase IT NEVER ARRIVED!
    The third issue: I tried to call them several times on 12/31/2014, while their message did not state they were closed, there was no answer.
    This reminds me of the last time I had issues with Traffic Geyser, and the run around with them. There was never a person you could directly call, and you had to leave a message. Then some poor sap on the other line had to deal with the issues of the customer from their failed programs. The last time I was part of Traffic Geyser, the software that was supposed to do all these amazing things, needed a rocket scientist to accomplish them. Being I majored in Electrical engineering, physics and computer science I must have been too stupid to understand Mikes programs.
    The forth issue: I sent them an email stating I Have not received anything, and also it signed me up for 3 units.
    The fifth Issue: No Response from my email.
    Sixth issue: Nothing received from the order.
    What I gathered from this experience is that Mike is still running the same scam, the same horribly painful customer service, and you get nothing for what you pay for.
    My advice is you still need to stay as far away from Mike Konigs and his scams as possible.

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