101 Comments »

Barbara said:
I was horribly disappointed in this two hour rehash. The most disgusting performance of the evening belonged to Beth Karas of Court TV. She was still defending Death Ray and repeating bullshit allegations about organophosphates that were thoroughly debunked at the trial. Several times she spoke as if the smoking gun that acquited Ray had just been found.
I did find the reporter Mark Duncan of the Prescott Arizona Daily Courier to be interesting. His take on the trial was one of the few bright spots in an otherwise dismal couple of hours. And I would have liked to have heard from more than two of the jurors, I didn’t think the two they spoke with had much of interest to say.
Hearing from Kirby Brown’s mother and brother was heartbreaking, when she said her daughter had been baked to death…I think even the narrator was stunned by that true statement.
WINNER!! ::   +21
[Reply]

LisaSimpson Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@Barbara, I’m glad she phrased it that way because it’s true! Phrasing it a “sweat lodge death” makes it sound like she asphyxiated.
  +6
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
@Barbara ::
How is quoting another reporter reporting anyway? It’s not.
And Beth Karas isn’t even a reporter :: she’s a clueless talking head …
http://saltydroid.info/mistrial-or-not/
… case in point.
[Reply]
# 22 October 2011 at 6:41 am

Colleen's brother-in-law said:
You know….it amazes me that all of us can see it, but the “watchdog” of the republic just can’t see what all the fuss is about….thanks again salty…john
WINNER!! ::   +27
[Reply]
# 22 October 2011 at 8:24 am

Eric said:
Last nights Dateline on James Ray was very biased for the defense. It seemed to me that for the last hour of the show there was not a single pro-prosecution clip. Beth Karas was ridiculous. What trial was she watching?
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]
# 22 October 2011 at 9:40 am

General Unicorn said:
Salty Droid, you are under arrest for breaking the law of attraction. Section A, subsection IV, clearly states that for the law of attraction to work you must “really believe” it will work. Your crime is failing to believe hard enough.
By the way, I wonder if anyone has created a law of attraction bodycount website…
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]

Kerry Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
@General Unicorn,
You can now count Steve Jobs on that list. His attempt at a magical thinking cure of an otherwise operable cancer, allowed that cancer to spread and, eventually, claim his life. Like SD teaches us all, it can happen to any of us.
  +4
[Reply]
# 22 October 2011 at 2:29 pm
James Ray Trial: Pre-sentencing Mitigation Hearing Sept 2011 « Spirituality is No Excuse said:
[...] 22 October: I didn’t see Dateline’s Deadly Retreat special but Salty Droid has some relevant comments about the show: among other weaknesses, it failed to mention Colleen [...]
  +6
# 22 October 2011 at 3:04 pm

what?? said:
I can’t believe I watched the video of the Defense closing argument highlights. Now I guess the Luis Li nightmares will start again. But, I’m still impressed that he can name all the months of the year.
Maybe someday James Ray will actually be sentenced for his crimes.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]
# 22 October 2011 at 6:32 pm

G said:
love the music in mmmm… whatcha say video. super eerie
I wonder how much jail time Death Ray is going to be facing when he gets sentenced next month
  +3
[Reply]

Boonie Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 7:49 pm
@G,
He’d better get the maximum or else prepare to live a very sheltered and seclusive life — there’s some crazy people out there — I just wish I was one of them and young enough to do something. And if he gets off, I hope someone will be counting every penny that Judge Darrow spends and account for where he got it. I sure hope I’m wrong, but something has been not right.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:54 am
@Boonie,
I reckon he’s counting the days and already has a plan, book, course mapped out for his climb back up the greasy pole after this little blip in his attempt at world domination.
There’s precedent for this, the untold number of TV preachers etc who claim to be humbled and misunderstood re their ‘human failings’ but nevertheless go on to use those ‘failings’ as proof that they still have _cartmans_ univeral mine at their disposal and continue to fleece the flock.
I think media-savvy types know this too and are hedging their bets when it comes to condemning a potential ratings-winner. Advertising revenue and its possible loss must loom large in the decision-making equation.
My vote is still for hard labour on the desert chain gang while dressed in a natty pink outfit–with no access to the male hormones and steroids that keep him relatively youthful-looking. I doubt even that will dent his narcissism, though.
The dead people strewn in his wake haven’t yet prompted any sign of reflection or remorse on his part.
Cages for psychopaths!
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 9:28 am
@stoic, “There’s precedent for this, the untold number of TV preachers etc who claim to be humbled and misunderstood re their ‘human failings’ but nevertheless go on to use those ‘failings’ as proof that they still have _cartmans_ univeral mine at their disposal and continue to fleece the flock…”
An equally significant precedent, of course, is Kevin Trudeau.
I too was deeply disappointed by NBC’s lame efforts. Ron and I watched the entire two hours and kept asking each other, “When are they going to reveal something new?” There were definitely misrepresentations about the trial. And the failure to mention Colleen was almost criminal in itself.
I’m sure NBC’s explanation for the oversight would be that they only wanted to focus on matters directly relevant to the Sedona sweat lodge. But I thought investigative reporting was also supposed to be about precedents and context… Oh, wait. That would be in an ideal world where sensationalism and ratings take second place to exploring the truth. So count me disappointed, but not terribly surprised.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]
# 22 October 2011 at 6:52 pm

Jack said:
I think 39″ – 45″ in stupid faces video makes the right definition for “shit-eating grin” or maybe can be called the “psychopathic, Oprah-endorsed shit-eating grin”.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
October 22nd, 2011 at 9:53 pm
@Jack,
That’s where he was trying so hard to unsuccessfully stifle his laugh, or the “see, I can walk on water” thoughts he was having and still has — there’s no remorse or guilt there whatsoever — just an “I’m God, and I’m innocent” right to the very end — and oh, how I’d like to see his end. On earth.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:57 am
@Jack,
There’s one where he’s looking sideways with slit-eyes at Tom Kelly with that grin on his face. Then after the guilty verdicts have been read he pulls that puckered pissed off face he showed in his mugshot.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 22 October 2011 at 9:39 pm

Anon said:
A few years ago everyone was humping people in the secret. What they learnt since is that there is probably only a few of them who really lived what they talked about. I cant wait to see James Ray put away at least for a few years because there is no way he deserves to be free after three people died and numerous were hurt and even more emotionally damaged. The greed of the years from 2003 to 2008 wont be forgotten for a very long time and these guys will never outlive the memories of the people who they affected.
  +2
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 1:12 am
@Anon,

“only a few of them who really lived what they talked about.”
You mean for them to make some imaginary life?
  +6
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:35 am
@Anon,
“probably only a few of them who really lived what they talked about”
Which ones? And how? That’s a bit like arguing that a magician really lives according to the idea that he can pull a rabbit out of a hat.
  +6
[Reply]

LisaSimpson Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@Anon, yes – I have a contact who worked for John ASSaraf who basically said that the guy’s a douche. One by one they seem to fall.
  +4
[Reply]
# 23 October 2011 at 12:16 am

Orenthal said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.


Fuck I’ve been wasting a lot of time …
Out of the mouths of babes…
Good thing Mrs. Droid is hard at work earning a living while Mr. Droid is playing on the ‘puter.
LOSER!! ::   -23
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 7:43 am
@Orenthal,
Good thing Mrs. Orenthal is hard at work earning a living while Orenthal is busy putting people down who are actually doing some good in the world.
WINNER!! ::   +18
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@Orenthal ::
Yes … it is a good thing.
She rarely gets thanked because she’s an invisible presence :: but without her this place wouldn’t exist … that is a fact.
[Reply]

Alexandra Nouri Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
@SD,
Wait — SD is married?? Dammit…
* kicks trash can *
  0
[Reply]
# 23 October 2011 at 6:19 am

Mad Max said:
Let’s not forget Oprah Winfrey’s role in promoting James Arthur Ray. It’s not the first time she’s helped mainstream one of these shysters.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/us/28beliefs.html?_r=1&hp
“In her earnest spiritual seeking, Ms. Winfrey gave platforms to some rather questionable types. She hosted the self-help author Louise Hay, who once said Holocaust victims may have been paying for sins in a previous life. She championed the “medical intuitive” Caroline Myss, who claims emotional distress causes cancer. She helped launch Rhonda Byrne, creator of the DVD and book “The Secret,” who teaches that just thinking about wealth can make you rich. She invited the “psychic medium” John Edward to help mourners in her audience talk to their dead relatives.”
All that influence … and not a shred of caution exercised.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 9:45 am
@Mad Max,
When you think of all of the evil people Oprah Winfrey has given her imprimatur to you cannot forget the disgusting and vile victim-bashing of Byron Katie. This putrid excuse for a human being tells children who are sexually abused that they drew their perpetrators to themselves. Byron Katie told a person who was paralyzed in an automobile accident that they must have desired that experience. She claims victims are violent because they “lower their vibrations and get angry”.
In her book titled “Losing the Moon” she says of Nazis burning Jewish babies alive:
“If Someone (God, “what is”), pulls my baby from me – if that’s what it takes, I’m there. Take the baby. Tear my baby from me. Throw it in the fire….My discomfort is my war with God. [page 35]You see, there are NO choices. What is, is.
But when we get to the baby thing, we’re getting down to our sacred little concepts now….You take my baby from me, you’re messing with the illusion of I’m the mommy, this is the baby, there’s the daddy…
But tearing the baby away- that’s the higher. That’s the higher, because it snatches your story from you and makes it apparent in your face – nothing’s real short of reality….
That’s it. That’s what is. That’s love. That’s absolutely Un-describable love. Can you know that Hitler didn’t bring more people to realization than Jesus?
There has never been evil and there never will be. Evil is simply a story. But I have trashed the baby when I have trashed the Nazi…
I am the baby going into the pit. I am the one throwing the baby in the pit…”
Have you ever read a more debased and morally depraved passage from a book? And Orah Winfrey gave this woman a forum for this vicious filth. Oprah Winfrey gave her seal of approval to Byron Katie’s contemptible “teachings”. Oprah Winfrey had this woman on her show numerous times.
The book quoted from is only available to her senior initiates, but it exists.
Losing the Moon: Byron Katie Dialogues on Non-Duality, Truth and Other Illusions (Paperback)
by Byron Katie (Author), Ellen J. Mack (Editor)
Byron Katie – ebook – Losing The Moon (complete).pdf
Product download Details
Paperback Torrent
Publisher: The Work Foundation, Inc.; First Printing edition (1998)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1890246069
ISBN-13: 978-1890246068
I’m sure Oprah has her own autographed copy.
WINNER!! ::   +16
[Reply]

General Unicorn Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 9:55 am
@Barbara,
Clearly, you need to do the Work, Barbara!
Katie is absolutely awful and you are right, she is on par with the JARs of the world.
Do you like how arrogant she is to title her “method” with the moniker “The Work”. It’s like NYC calling itself The City, except it has some grounding in reality to use that synecdoche.
Hey, Naomi… I used a big word. Did I use the right one. Please ko-rect me if i dint.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 10:17 am
@General Unicorn,
Look what you’ve done. Now Naomi is scratching her head wondering why you’re talking about Schenectady New York.
Byron Katie stole her entire schtick from Ken Keyes. She lifted his “Handbook for Higher Consciousness” and as far as I know he’s never sued her or seen a dime of her obscene profits made on the back of his book.
The only “work” I’d like to do with Byron Katie would involve me putting her in handcuffs and Mirandizing her…a girl can dream.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 11:15 am
@Barbara, don’t forget that Byron Katie’s husband Stephen Mitchell is a hack translator, creating versions of classic ancient texts written in languages he can’t read.
The Economist: ‘Mr Mitchell cuts …most of the adjectives and fixed epithets that contribute to the life of Homer’s figures and, subsequently, most of the poetic value of Homer’s work. It is doubtful, for example, that Zeus, the father of the universe, would ever exclaim as Mr Mitchell has him do, that “I have a sensible plan”, or even that Achilles, tempestuous as he is, would rally “To hell with that man…I don’t give a damn about him.” ‘
Read his Tao te Ching and you’ll hear ancient wisdom that sounds suspiciously like Byron Katie.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 1:27 pm
@, Anonymous,
Did you know Mitchell then sued Wayne Dyer for copyright infringement?
“As a result, “rather than provide a literal translation, the book embodies language that conveys Mitchell’s version of Lao-tzu’s meaning and the spirit of his teaching,” the complaint says. “Accordingly, Mitchell’s book is a highly original work.”
“If true, there certainly could be a new copyright on the work, though it does seem a bit odd to rewrite it, and then still call it the Tao Te Ching. Basically, it looks like Mitchell wants the best of both worlds. To be able to pretend his version is the ancient version when it works for marketing purposes, but then to consider a brand new work when it comes to copyright.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/12/wayne-dyer-sued-by-stephe_n_610225.html
Isn’t he clever? It’s an original work and a faithful translation! It’s a candy and a breath mint!
I had the misfortune of reading Mitchell’s book “Meetings with the Archangel: A Comedy of the Spirit” and can say without reservation that it was one of the worst books I’ve ever read.
WINNER!! ::   +12

LisaSimpson Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@Barbara, Yes – Byron Katie is scary as hell. There’s a forum somewhere of Byron Katie survivors. Reading accounts of her live “the work”shops makes me shiver.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@LisaSimpson, @Barbara: I got a real kick out of Steve Mitchell’s literary woes. And as for Byron Katie, this bit from a 2007 blog post by Joe “Mr. Fire” Vitale says pretty much all you need to know: “I believe Bryon is one of only a handful of people on the planet who may be enlightened.” Joe has also kissed up to her numerous other times on his blog over the past few years. That alone should give a pretty good idea of Katie’s level of credibility and integrity. http://blog.mrfire.com/?s=byron+katie
There are some lengthy Byron Katie threads on the Rick Ross forum, and a couple of years ago I read a very revealing blog from one of Katie’s former devoted followers, a Dutch woman named Janaki. Alas, Janaki’s blog is no longer publicly available; I think she may have been intimidated into making it private or removing it altogether. I had a strong sense that she was still enthralled by Katie, despite her disillusionment. (She certainly didn’t seem very appreciative that her blog attracted the attention of anti-Katie critics…
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2009/08/katie-bar-door.html)
Katie is famous for telling people that their “stories” don’t matter, and yet she built an empire around her own “story” (that cockroach tale).
WINNER!! ::   +7

Ross Jeffries Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@Barbara,
Katie got this stuff from that pile of steaming feces, “A Course In Miracles”. It is the single most damaging source of this nonsense and is a tissue of delusional thinking.
There is an entire chapter on this “course” in an amazing book called; The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power. Get that book to understand the destructive dynamics.
  +5
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@Ross Jeffries,
Sounds like that book, although written in 1993, was written most especially with James Arthur Ray in mind. The absolute likeness is uncanny!
http://freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/i/iskcon/guru-papers
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Ross Jeffries Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 9:20 am
@Bonnie,
It’s the best book on the subject that I’ve found and a recommended read for Salty.
  +2
[Reply]

Leon Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:33 am
@Ross Jeffries, This sounds like an official “RJ Book Club” recommendation.
  +1

Anonymous Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:15 am
@Ross Jeffries, Interesting that you enjoy chiming in about “destructive dynamics” and James Ray. I’m just curious :: Are you still using your NLP knowledge to sell courses on how to seduce, humiliate and use women for sex?
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@,Anonymous,
It’s interesting that James Ray and Ross Jeffries are both practitioners of the dubious art of NLP, isn’t it? The following quote is from Speed Seduction by Ross Jeffries:
“Angel:Excuse me I know this gonna sound the oldest, dumbest pick up line in the world. I know, I know, I have seen you somewhere before.”
“I know where it was I was reading a book on angels and they had you´re picture on the cover.I´m glad you laughed because you are absolutely breathtaking. I wanted to make sure you have more going for you then just that. Before I introduce myself. My name is……I don´t have a lot of time right now. But I tell you what. If you sit with me for five minutes. I analyze your handwriting. I tell you secrets about yourself your best friends don´t know.”
**********************************************************
Brilliant, isn’t it? I particularly enjoyed “you’re picture” and ” I analyze your handwriting”, is that Tor Johnson’s influence I hear?
And from his own website:
“How to get a woman to go to bed with you the same day you’ve met her, without a “formal date!”
. How to spend almost nothing on girls and still have them eager to go to bed with you!
. Six different ways to bread a first date’s resistance to giving you her sexual all and much, much more!
. Physical moves that get her so turned on she’ll beg to have you inside her!”
*********************************************************
Just what every woman dreams of, a man who will spend “almost nothing” on you and then try to “bread” your resistance.
Ross Jeffries was the model for Frank T.J. Mackey in the movie “Magnolia”. Tom Cruise did a wonderful job portraying the loathsomeness of these seduce and destroy type authors.
Why is an NLP-practicing speed seducer commenting on the Salty Droid?
  +6
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@Barbara, I remember watching one of Ross’s videos (linked to on one of the posts on Salty’s blog) where he was demonstrating his irresistible seduction techniques. As I recall, he approached a woman who was observing firefighters battling a blaze in an apartment building or some such. Mr. Speed Seduction sauntered up and asked the gal, “What’s a nice girl like you doing at a fire like this?” And then he asked her again, repeating it several times, riffing on the fact that it was such a corny line. Boy howdy, if he’d tried anything like that in Texas last month, he woulda been kicked all the way into Oklahoma.
  +4

Solar Flare Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@Barbara, Agreed! Isn’t RJ like the pot calling the kettle black? The sad part is that using NLP to covertly manipulate people gives it a bad name – but it can be used for good. I worked for an NLP trainer 20 years ago, and he was always emphasizing the idea to be honest and ethical.
  +3

renatae Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 5:43 am
@Barbara, That’s the most convoluted mass of mental puke I’ve ever had the misfortune of reading. How can “followers” even begin to formulate a plan of life out of that mishmash?
Never heard of her before; thanks for letting me know of yet another acolyte of madness among us.
  +1
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm
@Mad Max, And also PBS-endorsed knuckle-heads.
  +6
[Reply]
# 23 October 2011 at 8:58 am

Wyrd said:
This is going to sound like a dumb question, but only because I don’t know how else ask it:
Is there such a thing as anti-slander or anti-defamation? That is: is there some law by which NBC could be sued for mis-representing J Ray all these years as a stand up guy?
Yeah I know–even then it wouldn’t help because NBC would claim they didn’t know any better.
It’s just frustrating that’s all.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +5
[Reply]

Wanderlost Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Wyrd, Not as far as I know, but I think Canada’s media law requires that news outlets may not publish falsehoods. That has probably protected a lot of Canadians from being scammed using mainstream, trusted news outlets.
  +1
[Reply]

2tired2 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@Wyrd, Hey, Wyrd…that’s not a dumb question at all…very good question…:-)
Generally, reporters are allowed to “hide” behind the shield law ~ which can work both ways, i.e., 1st A stuff & your right to know
I normally don’t cite Wiki as a source ~ yet, this can give you a general idea of what the shield law is all about…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_laws_in_the_United_States
So, Dateline can write/show whatever they want; JamesJerkRay can publish whatever he wants ~ it’s up to us to discern what’s reality v. fiction
(all my opinion)
  0
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
@Wyrd ::
I think there’s a way to do it :: but whenever I pitch it to a real lawyer I can feel their eyes rolling … so maybe not.
A good start would be finding out how many of his 50 some TV appearances were purchased. It’s not all of them … or none of them.
[Reply]
# 23 October 2011 at 9:40 am

Wide Eyes said:
Question: When the heck will JAR get his sentencing?!
I’ve looked it up online but can’t find an answer . . .
Do you know?
  +2
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
October 23rd, 2011 at 2:31 pm
@Wide Eyes,
Friday November 18 2011 is the currently scheduled date.
  +6
[Reply]

renatae Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 5:58 am
@Barbara,
“Friday November 18 2011 is the currently scheduled date.”
Yeah, until JAR or one of his hacks gets a brain fart or a hangnail. Then we will be back to December or January. I’m losing hope that any sort of justice will be done.
  +2
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
@renatae ::
December and January are ruled out because of Kwanzaa … so maybe February.
[Reply]

renatae Reply:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:06 am
@SD, LOL, very likely; just as I would suspect!
  -1
[Reply]
# 23 October 2011 at 2:11 pm

hrmmm said:
I liked the part where the jurors’ only complaint about the prosecution’s case was that they called too many witnesses.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

renatae Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:03 am
@hrmmm, That amazed and disgusted me. How could they sit there and listen to Truc Do’s truculent badgering and Li’s endless whining and posturing, then decide the *prosecution* was trying to their patience? Unbelievable!
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
@renatae ::
And the one guy was like :: “come on … we get it already!”
oh really guy?
then hows come you didn’t convict him of the crime he was indicted for?
maybe … in retrospect … you can see how you didn’t get it already.
[Reply]

LaVaughn Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:51 am
@SD, Good point. But I like the way Hansen said the jurors, plural, told them they were frustrated. Only one of them did. The other told Mark Duncan something quite different but that sentiment somehow didn’t make it into their broadcast. Dateline took the same tack In Session and most of the media coverage did of this trial. The prosecutors were a bunch of rubes who somehow, mysteriously, got a conviction despite the fact that they really didn’t have much of a case and were up against the inarguable brilliance of a stellar defense team. How did they win? Who really knows? Dateline sure doesn’t know it.
  +1
[Reply]
# 23 October 2011 at 5:36 pm

Barbara said:
After all of this time has passed and convictions have been handed down in a courtroom Dateline’s Chris Hansen still said:
“Who–if anyone–is to blame for the disaster in the desert?”
Well, Chris, if you’d remove your head from your ass the answer’s quite clear, James Arthur Ray is to blame for a total of four deaths.
But clearly interest has waned in this story, there are a paltry nine comments on Dateline’s website concerning this program. There doesn’t even seem to be a lot of interest here…people have moved on to the Jacko train wreck and the missing baby in Kansas City leaving the families and friends of the dead to mourn the deaths of these four people. I just hope Judge Darrow doesn’t think it’s acceptable to give Ray probation since the initial furor has died down and the media has lost interest.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@Barbara, Amen. That’s the one thing that has worried me all along: although this story has received mainstream media attention, it’s nothing compared to the Jacko story and the kidnapping or or child-killing tale du jour. It’s up to all of us here to help keep the Death Lodge story alive, and remind people why it is important.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
As Stoic said above:
“I think media-savvy types know this too and are hedging their bets when it comes to condemning a potential ratings-winner. Advertising revenue and its possible loss must loom large in the decision-making equation.”
I also think it’s all a bit too complicated and a bit too real for the media. If he had have been caught shoplifting or sending private twitpics by mistake, his career would probably be sunk.
  +6
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 9:29 am
@Yakaru, That old cynics advice, if you’re going to lie make it a big lie?
  +3
[Reply]

Colleen's brother-in-law Reply:
October 24th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
@Cosmic Connie, let us not forget…..while this all was going on in the beginning….we were preempted by balloon boy, tiger woods fiasco, and any number of other non-stories… we went to new york to do an interview with geraldo, only to be bumped for the life changing new that tiger woods may have been unfaithful to his wife…..our story was taped(thank GOD) and aired at a later time, but still…..what’s news?????
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@Colleen’s brother-in-law ::
… and the only reason you were there for the taping in the first place is that JAR was pseudo-famous :: and three others had just died in spectacular fashion.
It’s not like they give a shit about the huge size of this problem … or about the problem at all. They just wanted to milk the free drama … any free drama will do … “news”.
[Reply]
# 24 October 2011 at 1:10 pm

Barbara said:
Remember during the trial when this fact was brought out?
“Stephen Ray, who sat immediately to the right of these four, remembered feeling James Ray splashing water with a ladle on himself and his three staff members.”
That bastard sat right next to the door and ladled water on himself and his staff while other people cooked to death in that tent.
And how about this phony-ass “shaman” and his inability to do what any nine year old Boy or Girl Scout can do, determine directions?
“It was later determined that what Mr. Ray thought was north was really west. As Mr. Ray described in his preparatory talk: “We’re gonna be entering from the south… and the south represents what? Transformation. And what element? Fire, how appropriate.”
Talk about not finding your ass with both hands and a flashlight, James Ray was too goddamned stupid to even know east from west. And he lost count of the number of rounds causing people to endure even more time in his Death Tent.
Darrow had better remember all of this…
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 24 October 2011 at 4:21 pm

Paul said:
I just can’t believe that thru all James Ray’s training he spoke of ‘get thru it, get it over with as fast as you can, so you can move on with your life’
Why would James be so reversible Now in his teachings?
  +2
[Reply]

Colleen's sister Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:02 am
@Paul, Because he merely teaches this crap…(for a nominal fee), he does not BELIEVE it or live by it! A side note…once he has depleted the “students” accessible money…they are dead to him…in some cases, literally.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@Colleen’s sister,
You are absolutely correct. James Ray taught NLP which claims it can cure baldness yet he took the prescription drug Propecia to treat his hair loss.
http://www.amazon.com/Regeneration-Subliminal-Neurolinguistic-Programming-imbedded/dp/B000PM93FQ
He peddled his brand of NLP-snake oil to his victims but when it came to his own health and well-being that nonsense went right out of the window.
  +5
[Reply]

Colleen's sister Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@Barbara, Do as I say…not as I do!
  +5
[Reply]
# 24 October 2011 at 5:26 pm

Dyler Thunder said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

LOSER!! ::   -12
[Reply]
# 24 October 2011 at 7:34 pm

How to get rid of the Scammer Shane Natan in 3 simple steps said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Just in case the Scammer Shane Natan decides to get rid of the images (as he probably did before) Here is a copy/paste of the gmail between Scammer Shane Natan and me.
** deleted :: reruns not allowed **
LOSER!! ::   -5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
@How to get rid of the Scammer Shane Natan in 3 simple steps ::
You already posted this … it got talked about … other peoples made interesting points about it.
http://saltydroid.info/the-greatest-douche-in-the-world/
That’s that … I’m deleting it from the other posts.
BTW :: IMO :: wasting scammer time 419eater style doesn’t get rid of scammers … it doesn’t do jack shit … and it misses the whole fucking point.
[Reply]
# 24 October 2011 at 7:41 pm

Anonymous said:
When mr ray to be jailed?
  -2
[Reply]
# 25 October 2011 at 8:30 pm

Ruby said:
I watched the 2 hour program on dateline. It’s two hours that I’ll never get back and such wasted effort. It almost seemed the Dateline producers ran the *update* by JAR’s attorneys for approval before airing that slanted piece of trash. I would hope Beth Karas has more integrity than what I saw of her on that show. I will even give her that benefit of the doubt and hold to account the producers that edited her words to fit in with their message. I should have said reporting but that show had no reporting in it at least from Dateline. The only credible one was from the Arizona reporter. Very sad what constitutes TV journalism these days.
On a snide note. I have a very good friend, who as it happens has been doing sweat lodges with me for the 20+ years I have been doing them and who also lives in Hawaii. This friend called with some funny news the other day. Apparently he was hired by a bank that had foreclosed on the property via a relator to refurbish a certain condo in Kona. Very nice location he says but it was furnished very cheaply and was basically trashed on the inside. I guess JAR never did sell it to pay for those attorneys. The coincidence is delicious.
  +5
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:48 am
@Ruby,
I’m almost sure I read something about that condo some time ago already.
  +3
[Reply]

LaVaughn Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:08 am
@Ruby, Having heard Beth Karas quite a bit on In Session before they tanked their coverage, no it was not the editing. She’s been pro-defense from the beginning. It’s entirely possible that she believes what she says, and if so, I guess she gets props for her honesty. But, personally, I thought it all looked like whoring for a powerful law firm that they are likely to cover again and need to stay chummy with. And, personally, I never found Duncan to be as unbiased as he claimed on that show. It was pretty obvious that he was being fed info by Tom Kelly, whom he even quoted once despite the court order.
  +6
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@LaVaughn,
Yes — while Duncan wasn’t anywhere near as disgraceful and pathetic as the In Session crew, he certainly seemed to be paying his dues to Kelly. One article he wrote calculated the amount of money the trial was costing the public, without once mentioning the fact that they were up against a $ million law team, paid for by the victims.
As if Sheila Polk was wasting public funds on a frivolous “exhibition” case rather than — of course — protecting the public from a serial manslaughterer who should have been stopped by the San Diego police, if not earlier.
  +3
[Reply]

LaVaughn Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Yakaru, Nor did he mention what all those emergency services after Ray’s heat endurance challenge cost. I know. I read your blog on that. Good point, that.
I thought his tone changed a bit after Ray was convicted, though. No one wants to be on the losing side. But I wasn’t impressed by his ability to be “unbiased.” Too much of his reported hued to the defense team’s talking points.
  +2
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
@LaVaughn,
Well I guess I can’t argue with that, then. (Glad there’s something to be read on my blog in between all the links to Salty & your site!)
I just went back & found the record of state services required by Death Ray’s “successful” sweat lodge: four helicopters, three fire engines, six ambulances, a dozen or more officers from Yavapai County Sheriff’s Office, staff and resources of the Flagstaff Medical Center, trauma intervention volunteers, and the Camp Verde Hazardous Materials Team.
I hope that list is also on Darrow’s table along with Ray’s tweets and emails when he’s considering the sentence.
  +3
[Reply]
# 26 October 2011 at 2:10 am

Bethann said:
I have zero respect for In Session, and every, “reporter,” who presents. None of them have control over what they say. Production meetings with staff exist for the sole purpose of directing the comments that will be made for the day. Parrots for management, all.
I found the best way to follow this trial, beyond the AP reporting, was to watch the trial.
The prosecution team with Sheila Polk in the lead presented a strong case. The defense merely postured, and without creating reasonable doubt.
Obviously the jury agreed.
  +5
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:32 am
@Bethann,
And did they posture, and posture, and posture, ad infinitum. As long as DeathRay has the ill-gotten gains to pay for others to posture on his behalf, this farce will go on.
Without the posturing DeathRay is just an aging, one-trick pony of a telesales trainer flogging ‘New Thought’ fantasies to vulnerable people.
I think that too many people are emotionally invested in the New Thought lie that they can ‘have it all’ with no work involved, no further thought required and no dues to pay to ever realise that all of life is a trade-off of sorts and that there is always a price attached to every decision.
  +3
[Reply]
# 26 October 2011 at 12:25 pm

Yakaru said:
Incidentally, Death Ray just tweeted this, complete with obligatory spelling mistake:
When someone trys to hurt you, it shows you’re really loved. If you weren’t important to them they wouldn’t waste their time. Think about it
……..
I hope Darrow reads it.
  +4
[Reply]

KG Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
@Yakaru,
Looks like JAR has been reading Byron Katie’s turn-it-arounds.
  +2
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:38 am
@Yakaru,
It was the $10,000 per person that Ray could get that made the people he hurt important to him.
He was seeing future visions of getting even bigger $$$$$ for hurting even more people by cooking their brains and, provided they survived the ordeal, conning them that a baked brain was ‘spiritual progress’
  +4
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:43 am
@stoic,
I am still puzzled by the fact that the jury dismissed the financial gain aspect of the case in the emotional impact phase of the trial.
JAR set up a business that was totally about conning people that his co$tly and dangerous methods were about spiritual progress, not in fact feathering his own nest.
I guess ‘business’ or ‘profiteering’ is the new sacrosanct religion that no-one may speak against, no matter how many casualties it leaves in its wake.
  +5
[Reply]

renatae Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:41 am
@stoic, I completely agree. I was aghast when (as I recall) the prosecution agreed not to press the stipulation about financial gain, which was his too obvious motivation in all his endeavors. I was further surprised when the victims’ families didn’t raise a huge stink over it.
  +2
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:05 am
@stoic,
I suspect they are also wondering about that too by now. Polk did an excellent job of explaining again and again that he was in large part motivated by profit to try and cook people to within an inch of their lives and went too far because of sadism and pure unadulterated stupidity. In a way I’m not surprised they couldn’t completely bring themselves to believe it.
Had they been prevented from hearing all those audio tapes of Death Ray playing God etc, they may have let him off altogether.
  +3
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:42 am
I agree with the sentiments in this thread — it’s painfully obvious that JAR was all about the profits — but I have one comment about the “financial gain” point. Maybe I misunderstood it when the issue came up during the hearings in question, but my understanding was that the point to consider was whether or not JAR would stand to profit financially from the actual DEATHS of the participants, not simply from providing an “extreme” experience that would “alter” them (and would perhaps brainwash them into signing up for even more extreme experiences). And I don’t think anyone could reasonably say that JAR was consciously trying to kill any of his paying customers.
That said, I am still amazed and disappointed that he was acquitted of the greater charge of reckless manslaughter, when clearly his behavior was reckless (and no doubt sadistic, too, as Yakaru mentioned).
  +5
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:12 am
@Cosmic Connie,
That’s the way I understood it too, although not being very informed about laws and judicial practices, I just assumed that others knew more than I did.
  +2

SD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
@Cosmic Connie ::
I think that’s how the jury must have deliberated on it … even though that doesn’t really make sense. How often is the death itself going to be “profitable” in a negligence / recklessness case? Never … basically. The dangerous conditions that caused the death were 100% created in an attempt to profit.
Like so much of the other BS in this case :: Death Ray has benefited greatly from the fact that he’s committed crimes much more complicated than the crimes he’s been charged with.

renatae Reply:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:24 am
@Cosmic Connie, That’s an interesting idea about the meaning of “financial gain” for that phase of the trial – and the only thing that would make any sense.
I suppose it wouldn’t be too much to ask that something about this case make sense for a change.
  0
# 26 October 2011 at 3:56 pm

Yakaru said:
“If there were something inherently dangerous about the sweat lodge’s construction, Mr. Mercer bears the legal responsibility, not Mr. Ray. That Mr. Mercer may have had a motive to shift blame also has gone unreported [in the media].”
I didn’t realize the full significance of that statement on Ray’s website from January 2010. For those unfamiliar with the details, it came out at the end of the trial, that on the night of the sweat lodge Ray lied to police that the fire keeper, Ted Mercer, was in charge of the lodge.
A few months later, Ray’s attorney Luis Li was also trying to pin the deaths on Ted.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100204092026/http://jamesray.com/sedona/
(Apologies for the multiple posts.)
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 26 October 2011 at 5:44 pm

2tired2 said:
Yavapai County pleadings
***
ORDER Resetting Presentence Hearing & Sentencing
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/10-07-2011%20ORDER-RESETTING.pdf
HUH? Kind of a day late ~ file-stamped 10/21/11 ~ notice to the Court re: Dateline
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/10-21-2011%20ORDER.pdf
(not sure why this was even filed…*shakes head* ~ it doesn’t even say anything)
State’s Amended Witness List
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/10-24-2011%20MISCELLANEOUS-WITNESS%20LIST.pdf
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/10-24-2011%20MISCELLANEOUS-WITNESS%20LIST.pdf
Oh, well ~ they (Yavapai Co.)post ‘em, I read ‘em…
I would say that the Dateline show was pitiful ~ yet all mainstream media is ~ it’s not a matter of picking & choosing ~ it’s all pitiful
  +5
[Reply]
# 27 October 2011 at 11:41 am

2tired2 said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Oh, I get it ~ I post something on here that’s informational & get thrown into the minus category.
Example: the Yavapai County links for the JerkRay case. The sentencing date is contained in those pleadings.
Screw you, screw your points & screw your inability to read. And, please continue your gossip.
LOSER!! ::   -6
[Reply]

Floyd Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:53 am
@2tired2, Bet you feel kind of like a HOT HEAD now, don’t ya? Ever consider that comments with a bunch of links can sometimes go to a spam folder first, and then they have to be manually fished out? You can thank SD for bothering.
  +1
[Reply]

2tired2 Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
@Floyd, The links showed up for me just fine the instant I posted them :-)
You said: @2tired2, “Bet you feel kind of like a HOT HEAD now, don’t ya?
Ever consider that comments with a bunch of links can sometimes go to a spam folder first, and then they have to be manually fished out? You can thank SD for bothering.”
And that’s not telling me how to post??? *shakes head*
Anyhoo ~ have a super weekend :-)
  -1
[Reply]

Bethann Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
@2tired2,
Thanks 2T2 for the effort you put into providing links, as well as comments.
Dateline did not provide full investigation for this show, and simply pandered to a general audience.
I find it sad so many seek oddball spirituality as opposed to healthy therapeutic treatment or the support of family and friends.
  +2
[Reply]

2tired2 Reply:
October 30th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
@Bethann, Thanx…:-)
If / when possible, I think it’s important to provide reliable links. But, that’s just me.
I’m not saying that ALL links or their content is reliable…
(Makes one wonder where they get their information.)
  -3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
@2tired2 ::
… hissy fit much?
[Reply]

2tired2 Reply:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
@SD, Yep. ‘Specially when blindsided by a reptillian aka “Floyd” telling me how to post.
If you have a “rule” against posting relevant links, then it might just be an idea to advise. I “ain’t” no webmaster.
Gee ~ let’s see how many people I piss off now ~
Dateline JerkRay transcript:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37626688/ns/dateline_nbc/t/deadly-retreat/#.TqwxqbKIi_I
  -2
[Reply]

Floyd Reply:
October 30th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
@2tired2, You’re an angry idiot who walks around with a chip on their shoulder. I didn’t tell you how to post. I pointed out what an asshole you were acting like without even knowing the facts. Sheesh.
  -1
[Reply]

2tired2 Reply:
November 3rd, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@Floyd, Hope you’re having a nice day.
You sure did tell me how to post ~ nevertheless, I cite links because oftentimes, that’s the best way to get information.
If you have a better way, please let me know.
Thanx, 2T2
  -3
[Reply]

Floyd Reply:
November 4th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@2tired2, Every day is a great day if you’re on top of the earth rather than beneath it.
How did I “tell you how to post?” Where are the “instructions” in my comment? You posted a comment with links that didn’t show up right away, and then you blew a fuse because they didn’t instantly appear.
I just told you why the links you had already posted may not have shown up immediately. That has nothing to do with telling you “how” to post. Drink less coffee and open your curtains occasionally.
  +2
# 27 October 2011 at 2:14 pm

Bonnie said:
Judges Are for Sale — and Special Interests Are Buying
By ADAM COHEN | Time.com
http://ideas.time.com/2011/10/31/judges-are-for-sale-and-special-interests-are-buying
  +5
[Reply]
# 31 October 2011 at 9:25 am

Say Something!

{ commentators }

{ subjectories }

Aaron Parkinson Andy Jenkins Angel Valley Anik Singal Anthony Morrison Bill Harris bleep bloop BlogWorld Bob Proctor Boiler Rooms Brad Fallon Brian Clark Chicken Soup for the Soul China Chris Brogan Colleen Conaway Copyblogger copyright credit cards Crystal Cox Cults Dan Kennedy Darren Rowse Dave Navarro David Schirmer David Sipes Dean Graziosi Decor My Eyes Dennis Karganilla DMCA Don Lapre Eben Pagan Ed Dale Ed Magedson Eliot Bernstein Featured Frank Kern Free Speech FTC Gary McCaffrey Get Motivated Google Greg Hartle Harlan Kilstein Headline Herbalife Hope HSBC IM Warfare Internet Marketing Interviews Ivy Capital Jack Canfield James Arthur Ray James Chartrand James Malinchak James Ray Trial Tweets Jeff Johnson Jeff Walker Jennifer Horton Jeremy Johnson Jimmy Davis Joe Vitale John Assaraf Johnny Truant John Raygoza John Reese John Swallow Josh Fredrickson Julian Assange Kajabi Kevin Trudeau Lanny Morton Laura Roeder Lawyers Leonard Coldwell Magic Bullet Maria Andros Mark Fabiani Mark Shurtleff Mark Victor Hansen Matt Bacak Matt Cutts Matt Harward Megan Fredrickson Michael Johnson Michael Martine Michael Savage Michelle Goulet Mike Dillard Mike Filsaime Mike Koenigs minions Mitt Romney MLM Munger Tolles & Olson Naomi Dunford Oprah Pat O'Bryan Paulie Sabol Perry Belcher Peter Diamandis Peter Wink PowerPay Professional Marketing International Prosper PushTraffic PZ Myers Rachael Acklin Randy Garn Rhonda Byrne Rick Calvert Rip-Off Report Robert Hirsch Russell Brunson Ryan Deiss Scams Scamworld Scientology Scribe Sean McAlister Sean Stephenson Secret Millionaire Senen Pousa SEO Sheeple Sonia Simone Stephen Pierce StomperNet Tedd Johnson Tellman Knudson the media The Secret The Syndicate The Tax Club Tim Brownson Tony Alessandra Tony Parinello Tony Robbins Trolls Twitter Utah Video Vorys Sater Seymour and Pease WikiLeaks Yanik Silver