Operation Total Freedom

Operation Kissing Cousins

Frank Kern is a family man … didn’t you know? He talks about it all the fucking time … so it must be true. I’m sure he’s not just intentionally trying to humanize himself in order to lubricate the process of doing something very inhuman :: because that would be manipulation … and your “main man Frankie” ain’t like that.

But sometimes mommies and daddies fall out of love :: and even the fakest of marriages fade into San Diego divorces. Call me India Lawrence Kern {as seen on The Salty Droid} :: tell me something I don’t know!

I heard about Irwin Frank Kern’s divorce months ago :: but I didn’t care … because I don’t care. All these motherfuckers are going to get divorces … cause they are only capable of caring about the happiness of the d-bag in the mirror. But it seems now everyone’s heard about Frank’s folly :: because suddenly “frank kern divorce” is trending on my dashboard.

Turns out that Irwin broke the news himself {sort of} in a recent pressure sales webinar  …

… baby momma drama …

… typical Frank Kern style classy. It’s not a divorce :: Frank just loves being a family man so much that he’s decided to start collecting them.

Frank pitched the webinar to his list like this …

Subject: BREAKING NEWS: my $26 million dollar secret revealed (important)

Back in 2006, I created a secret plan which I named “Operation Total Freedom”.

I implemented it, and within 5 short years, I sold over $26 MILLION DOLLARS worth of my own products.

$26 million dollars :: private jets :: and you can too!

Apparently Frank’s new lady is sick in the ICU :: but Frank is so devoted to telling you about how he sold $26 million worth of nothing that he “worked” straight through the traumas …

… leaving the hospital …

… what a guy!

Over the course of the webinar Irwin inappropriately mentioned the ICU not less than five times :: awkwardly trying to frame himself as the devoted hero king …

… the best way of leadering …

… people NEED sales webinars.

One of the blessings of Internet Marketing monies is being able to provide for your family :: just like family man Frank Kern. The appeal of the fancy cars and what not wears off :: says Irwin :: but helping your family is forever. To prove it Irwin put up pictures of his daughters {in bunny ears!} while he talked about how he wouldn’t have any worries about paying the hospital bills of his new girlfriend.

Again … classy! But what else would you expect from the self-appointed leader :: president :: and godfather of Internet Marketing?

… zero to hero …

Operation Total Freedom is built on the three pillars of lies :: lies :: and other lies … or something.

It works like this …

  • you tell people you’re something you’re not
  • other people :: with whom you are in secret league :: confirm your false claims
  • you sell people on becoming the something you’ve not become

According to Frank :: everything Frank’s ever done has been about a conscious plan to indoctrinate …

… the cult of you …

Please lie responsibly :: don’t go starting a cult just because your main man Frank Kern is admitting that he uses cult tactics almost exclusively.

Cults are bad … mkay.

… adderall psychopath …

Drugs are bad … mkay.

Of course an essential part of Frank Kern’s Rolls Royce having :: private plane flying :: bunny ear buying :: $26 million freedom adventure … was his French for trade union. The Syndicate was the most important part of Operation Total Freedom :: but the conspiracy theories about how it was an important part of Operation Total Freedom are all bullshit that “add to my legend” … so he’s super glad the cat is out of the bag about his bag-o-dicks club.

… syndicate of penises …

That’s why Operation Total Freedom comes with its very own Syndicate! That’s right!  I already told you … and you can too!!

The Not-Celebrity Syndicate will be a secret organization …

… sad “celebrity” syndicate …

… oops.

Now before I tell you the price :: please remember the ICU and the kids and stuff … Irwin’s a regular old human … not a psycho drug addicted scammer without a heart or soul. And the VALUE is tremendously gangsta …

… yours NOW for just $13,000. Hurry before supplies are running out!

This is the perfect $13,000 to spend if you’re new to the Internet and don’t actually have an Internet business …

… beginners welcome …

… perfect!

It’s a good thing this unregistered $13,000 biz-op frauduct will work for beginners :: because I think I remember Irwin Frank Kern IV accidentally reminding us earlier this year that …

… frank’s never been wrong …

“… they don’t have businesses and websites and products and shit.”

They do have emotions and obligations and families and shit … but fuck that I guess.

>> bleep bloop

192 thoughts on “Operation Total Freedom”

  1. So he’s engaged to be remarried on New Year’s Day and meanwhile he’s “conceptualizing” a webinair just for you while his latest baby-momma lies in a drug-induced coma? I’ll bet all women who come into contact with this cretinous asshole wish they could be in a drug-induced coma…anything is better than listening to Frank.

    And if the celebrity syndicate is a secret organization then why the fuck are you announcing it to all and sundry on the internet? Do you even know what “secret” means, fuckwad? Ask James Ray, he’ll tell you.

    Adderall didn’t turn you into a complete psycopath, you asswipe, you were there long before that particular drug came to market. You think the syndicate “adds to your legend”? You are delusional. Sending each other pictures of penises just makes you a group of sad internet losers.

      1. @Irwin, You bisexual scum. Do you really think people adore and look up to you? All the dirty deeds you have done are coming back to you very soon. All your “friends” (which you really have none-they only love your money) will laugh when your “baby’s Momma” takes your money, leaves your lame ass for a younger, richer and more intelligent man who is much better at sex with your gypsy wife. Remember there is ALWAYS someone better than you despit your self-delusions that fool you daily. YOU IGNORANT SUCKER.

  2. from the FTC: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/11/dojsweep.shtm

    “Instant Internet Empires” touted the money-making potential of five pre-packaged Internet businesses, promising that buyers could make more than $115,000 a year using the product. According to the FTC, for their $47.77 investment, consumers received the right to reproduce the defendants’ Web site and the right to try to resell its contents to other consumers. The FTC alleged that to achieve the promised $115,000 in earnings, consumers each would have to sell the product to 2,400 additional consumers, who would each need to sell to 2,400 additional consumers to achieve the same earnings, and so on. According to the FTC, by the third generation of the scheme, participants would need to make a total of 13,829,760,000 sales, more than twice the earth’s population, for each of them to achieve the advertised earnings.

    The stipulated final judgment and order with Instant Internet Empires and Irwin F. Kern, IV, also known as Frank Kern, bars them from making false or misleading income claims, from participating in chain marketing schemes, and from providing others with the means and instrumentalities to violate federal laws. Based on financial statements provided by the defendants, $247,000 will be provided for consumer redress. Should the financial representations be found to be inaccurate, the total of their ill-gotten gains, $634,222, will become due.


    Good luck trying to sell Frank Kern’s frauduct to “more than twice the earth’s population”. Why is this smelly loser still at large? Prison is the only way to stop these grifters.

    1. @Barbara,

      I read some similar statistics on the odds of making it in the MLM business in the 1980’s, which is what finally made me realize that no matter how well meaning and honest some of my upline were (and a lot of them were — they were just misinformed as I was), that this was never going to work and couldn’t possibly with statistics like that — as I’ve said before, the only people who make good in MLM are the ones who start the company and those “friends and relatives” who get in right from the start — and the rest of the poor suckers (as I was) just work their asses off trying endlessly to get it going, while only providing huge incomes for those people at the very top — who make money no matter what, because they have a constant stream of “workers” below them.

      I only wish I had all the dollars and time I spent before I “came to” — however, I do have my learning experience, and that is worth a fortune in now being extremely sceptical of anything and everything — thank God Salty is here to save a lot of people from wasting the same time and money as a lot of us did, or at least, getting out long before they would have otherwise. I just wish the internet was around back when I was being taken in. There was pretty much no information available then except what your upline was telling you.

        1. @Dr. Duke,

          HorribleLife and YouSinka, I mean, Herbalife and Usana. We were actually told that Amway was crooked and a pyramid scheme, but that this wasn’t — and we believed them. You don’t have to be stupid to be gullible and to trust people.

          1. @Bonnie, My sympathies. I had European friends who got involved in Herbalife in the 80’s when you did. I felt so bad for them, because I was pretty sure that kind of selling was banned in Europe – so they came into it feeling it COULDN’T be a scam or the government wouldn’t allow it. No antibodies. Of course, I tried to explain the mathematics of it- that was the first (but not the last) time I heard the line about having a psycholigical problem with wealth and not wanting to be rich. I did get a few of the products to help my friends out and to jump-start a more sensible, portion-limiting diet. But fortunately I have a real aversion to pep-rally type crowds- their description of sales meetings sounded like my version of hell.

        2. @Dr. Duke,

          And it doesn’t really matter which ones anyway — they’re all the same (just so nobody out there thinks that any of them are going to be worth the time and money you put into them).

    2. @Barbara ::

      In spite of the “stipulated final judgment” :: which was of course going to protect society from future Kern based harms :: Irwin Frank Kern IV tells a different version of the FTC story … one in which he’s totally innocent …

      … FTC mistakes …

      … and it’s all Jeremy Johnson’s fault.


      I’m gonna email this MP3 to the FTC right now … just like I personally told them about Irwin Frank Kern IV’s douchey little Syndicate … several fucking times.

      1. @SD :: Lolzerz!!

        Nice audio.

        It’s funny how in Irwin Kern’s post-FTC lawsuit marketing materials, “Frank” Kern claims he earned his chops via some mythical, unnamed pet services business.

        Not a sued-by-the-FTC & shut down Instant Sham Empire Pyramid Scheme. Nooo … Frankie boy was in pet services.

        I guess we can ascribe this to a form of selective honesty … Like “I have selected not to include honesty in my statements.”

        It reminds me of good ole fashion marketing super-scam guru Grandaddy Gary … and his interesting spin on his own mail fraud conviction: “The Dark Side of {Suck}cess.” This one still is the best “It’s not my fault” letter I know of in the field.

        I’ll admit, tho, hearing this type of shit, I at least find Frankie Boy’s scam-ness more entertaining than crazy Spider Bitch.

        IRWIN :: “They actually thought I was somebody else!”


        Thanks @SD for giving us this insider’s look at the recursive hologram of the blind leading the blind leading the blind leading the blind leading the (etc) into the pit of rehashed frauduct purgatory.

        It reminds me of cloning Michael Keaton … where the copy of the copy {ahem Ms. Dumbford} starts to seem a little off.

        Remember Linda? What does that make her then? Copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy?

        … Thanks to guys like you, “Frank” Kern …

  3. Glad to see the heat back on Frank.

    Id like how he misrepresented his preggers mistress by just stating hes getting MARRIED not that he had an affair.

    Id love to see this ass clown in a court of law for murder or something. Lets see that vague misdirection stand up there!

    When they do throw his ass in jail maybe they’ll put him next to Madoff so at least Frank can feel like even more of a fucking loser.

    1. @Syndicate H8r,

      You’d love to see him in court for murder. So you’re hoping someone dies?

        1. @SD, Good One SD! Kern what a total bell-end.

          No disrespect to people with speech impediments but all of these IM’s have a speech impediment of some sort. As a minimum they talk out of their fucking muffled poo-shoot!

          Just listening to that voice makes me want to vom! He sounds like a hissing lizard!

          Want a perfect profile of Frank Kern? check out BBC Horizon program: Are You Good or Evil? shown Sept 2011.

          Kern and his fucking MAOA Warrior Gene.

  4. Should have called it ‘The Ex Got Half. Help me get the other half back’.

    Oh wait, that would require THE TRUTH…

  5. The good news is that pretty soon there won’t be any more fleece to shear from the sheep. Oh, wait, that’s not really GOOD news, is it?

    My baaaaaaaaaad…

  6. Clearly one problem with “cult of personality” is that you have to physically be there to generate new income. And all that passive income really isn’t very in the end. Things change / the machine grinds people up, so then you have to go find new marks.

    Most folks making big $$$ at a company, if they had a Significant Other (or even a not-supposed-to-exist-mistress-whatever) in the hospital they could take some leave time.

    But Frank’s, uh, “dedication” to his, uh, “flock” apparently makes that difficult for him.

    Oh, there’s so many things I could say, but I’d just be re-re-re-re-re-stating what you’ve already said, @SD.

    He seems like a turd to me. I will check out some of your past articles on him.

    I hope the lady in the ICU and the child unit come out ok. But you know, that’s kind of the tragic bit–no matter what happens, that kid will be stuck with Frank for a dad. If it’s really sucky to have a sociopath for a child, I can’t imagine how much more horribly worse it must be to have one as a parent and role model. :-(

    1. @Wyrd ::

      Most folks making big $$$ at a company, if they had a Significant Other … in the hospital they could take some leave time.

      When Frank Kern is working, it means Frank Kern is too broke to afford Frank Kern’s life.*

      Excepting his honed skill of deviousness … my impression is Irwin’s forward attention spans about 4-7 hours into the future. Throughout the history of his career, it’s basically like:

      … Pull big Syndicate ‘product’ launch
      … Fleece IM+MMO cult
      … Retardedly waste all money rapidly
      … {Do not} Rinse {hair}
      … Repeat

      My version of Irwin’s cult method also has 5 Steps. It also has 2 that are evil. The only difference is it has 5 more honest steps than Frankie Boy’s list.

      *This applies to all scammers {except for elite master scammers} … they only work when they’re starving.

  7. You mean the scammer with the unkempt appearance, persistent stammer and bleary, shifty eyes is on drugs? :P

      1. @SD, Oh, of course, who’d be silly enough to blow $26 million unicorn dollars on pills and surfboards?

  8. Dear Droid:

    The “lawyer” career didn’t work out for you, so you’ve spent the last few years moping around in your basement building this cool website.

    But I think you’re really selling yourself short.

    TMZ is always looking for skilled writers. Why not apply for a job?

    You have a talent for editing out a bunch of meaningless soundbites and weaving them into a fantastic narrative! That’s a talent that’s always in demand at TMZ (or some other tabloid show). Hey, at least it would get you out of the house and earning a living, right?

    Send in an application. Whaddya got to lose? I’m rooting for you.

    Sincerely, your friend Orenthal.

    1. @Orenthal, goodness gracious you poor little thing. I bet you were genuinely snukering to yourself while writing that tripe.

      Instead of addressing the issues and arguments leveraged against Frank Kern, through the usage of his own words… You make undubstatiated claims about the blog owner in attempt to either help protect your fragile mind or income source tied to the shams perpetrated by these hucksters.

      I bet you fancy yourself quite the comedian, but in reality… Your are probably a very sad individual who finds hope in insulting others without credence or content. Sure, SD insults his targets and ridicules them too… But at least he provides material and evidence to back him up. You… Your attempt at sarcasm sounds like it was written by the crew at Americas funniest home videos circa 1996.

    2. @Orenthal,

      Since obviously feel your butt buddy has been wronged, why don’t you set the record straight?

      Since we know you’re here reading then know this:

      THIS ENDS IN INDICTMENTS…run while you can

  9. Under what kind of value system is “Total Freedom'” considered to be a state in which you feel it necessary or praise-worthy to take your work into the intensive care unit, or use your own children as marketing devices?

  10. Hello everyone, may the force be with you.

    I discovered saltydroid.info a few months ago and the information it contained struck my eyeball because for some reason I don’t understand. Anyway, frank kern and his cronies had deceived me through unfounded claims of potential income that are unrealistic. I love astronomical numbers, i think, and fell prey.

    Thousands of dollars gone. Bye. Money that could have been used to put food on my table. To fund a trip to Europe. gone. Bye. No more. No refund. Can’t get one.

    I have bought into so many of these products I don’t even want to count them. I just hope more and more people, or rather sheeples of these wanna-be businessmen such as Irwin wake up and find out what a dipxxxx Frank the Man really is.

    I feel bad for myself.

    1. @I was formerly confused too…,

      What would be great would be if Operation Total Freedom turned into Operation FTC Finally Pens Kern for a Good Long Stretch.

      Make a formal complaint.

  11. Anyone have a picture of Frank’s new whore?

    Let’s see what he’s cashing in some of his chips to tap when his wife takes him to the cleaners. Hey, maybe we’ll get lucky and when she tries to get some of his bullshit wealth, Judge Lance Ito will help us discover Frank didn’t make big money… Irwin can go back to selling used cars, sucking dicks, or whatever… and his ex wife and new wife can get back on the “ho stroll” turning a dollar for “daddy” Frank.

    Whatcha think?

    1. @Muerte al Cabrones,

      You’re disgusting. There’s no need to insult Kern’s ex-wife or future wife, let alone refer to them as whores.

      This is about him not them.

        1. @Aristoletes Italia ::

          Yes dummy :: “Frank himself too” has it coming … and it’s his bullshit public sales persona that’s getting criticized. Hillbilly asshole Irwin Kern can wander back into the Georgia forest whenever he wants … I won’t follow.

          But as far as I know :: the ladies have nothing to do with ripping people off :: so unless @Muerte al Cabrones has some evidence to the contrary … then he is invited to shut the fuck up.

          1. @SD,

            I gotta disagree with you about spouses

            I hear you when you say they’re not part of the planning and execution of the scams but they certainly spend the money stolen from others

            I think spouses should have to answer for their other half.

            They certainly benefit from the scams by living in expensive houses, drive fancy cars and enjoy exotic vacations.

            Saying I didn’t know is not a defense. if they truly don’t know then they should be made aware

            I think pressure should come from every possible direction

            That’s the only way this ends…pressure from every angle and it must be relentless

            I want Kerns wives to google their name and see her husbands scams showing up.

            I want the wives of these scammers to be afraid their kids will see it.

            I want anyone related to or doing any type of business in anyway shape or form to know frank kern is a scammer of the highest order

            1. @,

              In that case, what you want is probably not conducive to the public good. It’s also probably not very likely.

              From what I’ve seen, both in movies, and real life, being the wife of someone involved in crap like this is not as easy as you make it seem. I suppose there are occasions where the wife-person is complicit to a greater or lesser degree. But like @SD says, unless you’ve got actual evidence of the knowing complicity of a specific wife (e.g. something that could be proved to have been written by her that reads “oh how I love it when my husband screws over the sheeple” would be pretty damning), please kindly STFU. Thanks.

              Furry cows moo and decompress.

  12. Frank Kern is a total piece of shit…if anyone had any doubt then this clinches the deal

    He’s also incriminating himself with all these recordings where he talks about his criminal behavior

    Frank doesn’t think what he’s doing is criminal…good thing for us is he doesn’t get to decide that

    It’s only a matter of time before the authorities catch up to frank…too bad we will not be there to see it

    1. @Cosmic Connie, One of the reply to this train-wreck of a blog post made me throw up a little bit…

      Quote: Is Frank Kern insane, a mass control manipulative monster, a drugged-out surfing, skateboarding hippy weirdo throwback to the 60s or a true visionary and Pied Piper to a new emotionally fulfilling reality?
      A marketing genius, but otherwise none of the above.
      Frank is just merely riding the current wave of unfolding higher consciousness which dictates that true satisfaction has nothing to do with any of the values that society prizes like…wealth, beauty, youth, and intelligence.
      But, do keep in mind that Frank rides his wave with pockets stuffed with CA$H which allows him to live his “personal significance” life.
      This post is just gives him that much more creed that his talents go beyond marketing and into the heart of understanding how people are really supposed to live. So, way to go Frank!

      How sad… I mean seriously… How sad can you get?

      1. Oh and forgot to note specifically how this suburban Dali-lama so eloquently notes that the “unfolding higher consciousness” dictates that satisfaction has nothing to do with “Frank is just merely riding the current wave of unfolding higher consciousness which dictates that true satisfaction has nothing to do lame things like “wealth, beauty, youth, and intelligence.” … But most of all intelligence. The unfolding higher consciousness totally hates intelligence.

        *cue hipster voice*
        Intelligence is overrated

        1. Yes, the conspicuously enlightened folk are big on listening to your heart instead of your head. (Unless, of course (in the case of guys), it’s the little head.) That whole “Heroes” site from which I pulled the link about Irwin is a rogue’s gallery of New-Wage scoundrels, and it is yet another demonstration of the unholy marriage of McSpirituality culture and IM con culture. Some of the IM’ers will claim that they think The Secret and stuff like that are bunk, but they aren’t afraid of using metaphysical constructs when it suits them.

  13. Frank Kern wrote “The Two Magic Powers” after being inspired by an article in Oprah Winfrey’s magazine. ( Oprah is going to have a lot to answer for in the next life if PZ Myers is wrong and there is a Judgment Day)

    The first magic power is…(drum roll)”The ability to get started.”

    Underwhelmed? I certainly was. To call this sentence fragment a magic power is hyperbole at its very worst. Most craptastic new-agey authors at least go for the overused “A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step” (I think Lao-tzu would probably regret saying it if he knew the uses it had been put to.)

    Ready for Number Two? “The Ability To Step Back Into The Ring”, wow…that really is number two. He elucidates further: “Business is like boxing in the sense that you will, without question, get knocked around a little.” This is Frank Kern’s attempt at a Forrest Gump type of memorable quote, too bad Forrest had already taken “stupid is as stupid does” because that would have suited Frank perfectly.

    He brings this piece of feculence to an end with an inspiring list of his failures:

    “1. Used Car Lot (the prestige!)

    2. Underground Dog Fencing (don’t ask)

    3. Roofing Contractor and Commercial Repair (even more prestige!)

    4. Merchant Bank Card Processing (failed attempt at “legitimate” business)

    …And of course, this is before I got online.

    Once I got online, I was able to have my most spectacular failure to date …the dreaded Instant Internet Empires, which got the attention of the FTC and ultimately earned me a nice lawsuit which cost me everything I had.”


    1. @Barbara,

      “Ready for Number Two? “The Ability To Step Back Into The Ring”, wow…that really is number two.”


    2. @Barbara,

      If anyone was EVER confused about why these guys scam…look at his business failures before entering the MAKE MONEY ONLINE arena

      He FAILED at everything he did before getting into BIZ OP

      The ONLY money he has ever made has been selling the rest of the world make money ideas

      This is my favorite line:

      “…And of course, this is before I got online.”

      Because Once Irwin Kern got online EVERYTHING changed.

      All the business failures evaporated into his past when he got online. Now those failures are just good motivation

      Here’s Franks business history

      Before the internet – failed at every business he ever got involved in

      First Online deal – fined heavily by the FTC for fraud

      Then like all sociopaths he got better and better with each scam. Kern the predator gets more intoxicated with his thefts and better and better at the art of stealing

      Frank Kern was a failure in business before getting online…and now is nothing more than an ONLINE CONMAN

      1. @Shit Storm,
        That’s how these guys play it- “You can learn from OUR failures”, and the bullshit “90% of businesses fail within the first year”, so it’s ok. There’s lots of examples, but the end goal is the same- the customer failed, yes, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t stop trying.

        And by “trying” they mean “send $197, or $597, or $5097. Whatever your credit limit may be.”

        The whole “I was a failure, just like you…” crap. Frank Kerns whole shtick is getting people to identify, make them think he’s one of “them”. A lazy surfing/skiing partying failure, who woke up lost at age 35, then made good. Without busting his ass, even!

        I know guys like this, who partied for a decade or two. Most of them are decent people, and would never knowingly scam anyone, but they are prey for Frank, I assure you. An arrogant facade and a devil-may-care attitude plays to their biggest prejudices. Being a failure before the internet? That’s a credential.

        That keeps them coming back.

  14. Salty, once again you are to be commended on good reporting, witty writing, and simply making me laugh the only way a fake robot could.

    Is it me or is a common thing for Internet marketers to use their kids to sell their crap? Ed Dale used his children, Naomie used her premature infant, and Frank uses his kids and his mistress’ demise in the Intensive Care Unit to get people to buy crap.

    There seem to be three things I see happening with all of the “gurus” and “important” Internet marketers; They all use their children to promote, they seem to love drugs, especially uppers and amphetamines, and they cannot control their spending.

    I’m psychologist, but there is a direct link between money accumulated through ill-gotten gains and compulsive, out of control spending addictions. Seems like a lot of them end up in bigger debt the more money they scam.

    Good for India for getting away from this psychopath, feel sorry for the new victim, err “wife”.

  15. @salty — is the full recording of the Operation Total Freedom pitch posted somewhere? Where can we hear the whole thing?

    1. @Wide Eyes ::

      If you’re the government … then yes … otherwise no. It’s too long and stupid and not worth the pain in the ass of hosting it up.

        1. @Wide Eyes,

          one day…at universal channeling camp…the “secret” [[hah…I killer me]] location was found…

          I normally would have people swear to the universal and safeguard the location…then I would sprinkle sage on it and shit to keep it super-protected…but it is stupid [[as Salty stated]] and boring as ALL fuck. I scrubbed it, and was able to locate the stupid….but I refuse to sit through it…how long it will remain up is unknown…hosted compliments of Earwig Kern…thank you Earwig for sharing ewe shit…


          1. @_cartman_ ::

            Make people sign a fake Non Disclosure Agreement :: and then post your fake secrets to the public webs … makes sense … makes sense.

            1. @SD,

              well you know what everyone is saying ….Earwig Kern is duhhhh man!!…and fNDA’s are so early 00’s!…it’s so retro!

          2. @_cartman_,

            This made me laugh … out loud even.

            then I would sprinkle sage on it and shit to keep it super-protected

            I read it, “sprinkle sage and then take a shit”. Fitting shaman technique to bury such treasure.

          3. @_cartman_,

            I clicked your link before I really realized what it was. { yeah, me be stupid }

            So now there’s this .flv file downloading currently with 30 min left.

            And I can’t even decide if I want to bother with letting it download. I have a feeling I’ll be getting nauseated and skipping through it pretty rapidly. It seems like a lot of space and time to use up on something I’ll probably hate.

            So–sort of what @SD was saying–I guess it’s a good thing no one we care about is having bandwidth used up by this. *shrug*

            Yeah, ok. So I only downloaded part of it. Turns out .flv files are one of those that will play (in VLC) when it’s not complete. That’s good, because–yeah, I’m not listening to this guy ramble for hours and hours.

            Furry cows moo and decompress.

          4. @_cartman_,

            Woah!! you’re an internet sleuth sir Cartman – thanks for the link

            @SD and all – yes the NDA tactic is very silly. Do I think the content has more value if I sign a B.S. NDA? – this coming from the guy who claims to manipulate reality all the time?

            Of course not! This is so childish

            The problem with Kern is that he does these kind of stuff that make no sense… then if you fall for it and buy his frauducts he will spend most of his time telling you about how he got you to buy his stuff by looking back at his marketing and de-cyphering it for you — and he will do it again, and again, and again . . . and again … until you puke.

            Fake b.s. marketing telling about his fake sucksesses – then, after you buy . . . spending an entire course explaining his b.s. marketing — this is a perfect vicious circle: the b.s. marketing IS the b.s. product.

            I think this is the major contention here on this site. This is where the lie is.

            Unicorns begone!

          5. If anyone wants to save that file and/or listen to it later: if you are using windows, just right click on it, choose “save as” and save it to a folder, or to your desktop.

            1. @Scoop,
              Please also note that it’s upwards of 600 MB, and it really, REALLY isn’t worth listening to. I am kicking myself for wasting time and bandwidth on this.

              I should’ve just listened to the Droid, and not bothered.

              Mr. Twitchy, ghostly, greasy surfer dude really likes to listen to himself talk.

          6. @_cartman_, God in heaven help me, I downloaded and watched the thing. (Several days of on and off watching, mind you–I don’t think I could handle all two and a half hours in one sitting.) Thank you for that, um, insight.

            Is it my understanding that people PAID for this crap? Paid to listen to this guy ramble about how he managed to trick people into thinking he was some kind of expert and now he’ll teach you how to trick people in the exact same way?

            Does it occur to any of these people that the market for overpriced PDFs is diminishing now that publishing via the Kindle and other devices is becoming easier to do and people are selling ‘information products’ (aka BOOKS) much more cheaply via those channels? Or do they not want to think too hard about that part?

  16. Is it wrong to cross my fingers and hope that India will show up on the Droid soon? Or, better yet, Abramoff the guy?

  17. Please allow me to share with you how “The Secret” changed my life and in a very real and substantive way allowed me to overcome a severe crisis in my personal life. It is well known that the premise of “The Secret” is the science of attracting the things in life that you desire and need and in removing from your life those things that you don’t want. Before finding this book, I knew nothing of these principles, the process of positive visualization, and had actually engaged in reckless behaviors to the point of endangering my own life and wellbeing.

    At age 36, I found myself in a medium security prison serving 3-5 years for destruction of government property and public intoxication. This was stiff punishment for drunkenly defecating in a mailbox but as the judge pointed out, this was my third conviction for the exact same crime. I obviously had an alcohol problem and a deep and intense disrespect for the postal system, but even more importantly I was ignoring the very fabric of our metaphysical reality and inviting destructive influences into my life. My fourth day in prison was the first day that I was allowed in general population and while in the recreation yard I was approached by a prisoner named Marcus who calmly informed me that as a new prisoner I had been purchased by him for three packs of Winston cigarettes and 8 ounces of Pruno (prison wine). Marcus elaborated further that I could expect to be anally raped by him on a daily basis and that I had pretty eyes.

    Needless to say, I was deeply shocked that my life had sunk to this level. Although I’ve never been homophobic I was discovering that I was very rape phobic and dismayed by my overall personal street value of roughly $15. I returned to my cell and sat very quietly, searching myself for answers on how I could improve my life and distance myself from harmful outside influences. At that point, in what I consider to be a miraculous moment, my cell mate Jim Norton informed me that he knew about the Marcus situation and that he had something that could solve my problems. He handed me a copy of “The Secret”. Normally I wouldn’t have turned to a self help book to resolve such a severe and immediate threat but I literally didn’t have any other available alternatives. I immediately opened the book and began to read.

    The first few chapters deal with the essence of something called the “Law of Attraction” in which a primal universal force is available to us and can be harnessed for the betterment of our lives. The theoretical nature of the first few chapters wasn’t exactly putting me at peace. In fact, I had never meditated and had great difficulty with closing out the chaotic noises of the prison and visualizing the positive changes that I so dearly needed. It was when I reached Chapter 6 “The Secret to Relationships” that I realized how this book could help me distance myself from Marcus and his negative intentions. Starting with chapter six there was a cavity carved into the book and in that cavity was a prison shiv. This particular shiv was a toothbrush with a handle that had been repeatedly melted and ground into a razor sharp point.

    The next day in the exercise yard I carried “The Secret” with me and when Marcus approached me I opened the book and stabbed him in the neck. The next eight weeks in solitary confinement provided ample time to practice positive visualization and the 16 hours per day of absolute darkness actually made visualization about the only thing that I actually could do. I’m not sure that everybody’s life will be changed in such a dramatic way by this book but I’m very thankful to have found it and will continue to recommend it heartily.

    By Ari Brouillette

  18. My apologies.

    I should have kept the discussion focused on The Great Satan – Frank Kern, rather than on his minions.

    I’m sure neither of his concubines have benefited in any way from his misdeeds.

    So, again, I apologize for the scope of my comments.

    1. @Muerte al Cabrones ::

      There’s a big separation between benefiting from misdeeds :: and perpetrating them.

      Your disingenuous apology not accepted.

  19. mr. Kern’s final end-game idea to try to kill down the walker-30-percent refund rate is for him to wear a Big Worm Cystic Fibrosis T-Shrit for cutting down refund rates at FrankKernHelpDesk.com. It must be a PROVEN method because mr. Y. Silver at InternetLifeStyle.com wants to do it to with his charity link to Freeze The Disease.

    It’s something for passing the time when not sending pictures of penises to each other or…

      1. @SD,

        Got a question for the doubters;

        If Kern and his gang are such brilliant marketers why is the refund rate over 25%?

        Name another industry that has a 20+% refund rate?

        The fact that he records this just boggles the mind. I can’t imagine the FTC/AG being OK with repeated 25% refund rates, why nobody stopped selling if each and EVERY product continued to produce the 25% refund rate. Just demonstrates the criminal pattern to profit at any cost.

        If these scammers were real they wouldn’t run out and do it again and again

        1. @Shit Storm, Not that there aren’t plentiful legitimate reasons to ask for a refund on their unicorn classes, I’ve always assumed there was a large number of people who paid for the product, downloaded it, and asked for a refund. Which I figure is just what they deserve. Shit attracts shit, scammers scamming scammers, as it were.

        2. @Shit Storm,

          Don’t forget that the products are sloppy even by IM standards.

          The $2000 List Control-package consisted of little more than some guys rambling on how to install Aweber and create an Opt-In offer, that’s less than you get out of a single class on Mixergy.com. And his 300-or-so dollar newsletter was basically a bad rip-off of Kennedy’s Insider Circle plus woo at 10 times the price.

        3. @Shit Storm, Unfortunately, the AG and FTC are usually more interested in the NON-refund rate, as in, not making them when requested. They don’t seem to count refunds because…frankly (pardon the intended pun)…they don’t hear from people who got their money back and, usually, the first thing they ask is “did you ask for a refund” and “was it refused?”

          I know one guy who said his entire bizop business plan was make any refund whenever asked because that’s the only way you’ll ever get busted.

          Not entirely true but…far too true too often, I’m afraid.

    1. @Jack, “Yeah … Gee Andy … I guess if we’re a customer we must be the dumbest, stoopidest assholes on the planet. You have to make the spokesgirl talk mentally retarded so we can bond with her. Afterall, we’re mentally retarded too … and, and, any sign of intelligence or confidence in someone else will just send us into paroxysms of insecurity and fear.”

      God you syndicate pricks make me sick!

  20. Has anyone come up with a syndicate family tree? Something that quickly shows the connections between the members as they filter down pyramid like from the scamming bastards at the top to the gullible affiliate chumps at the bottom.

  21. wow I am so confused..I thought this was a stroke his dick kinda thing…perhaps the format threw me….sorry Irwin…my bad

  22. There was a time when I thought Kern and Dale were smart cookies. Being a part of Ultra Underachievers disabused me of that though. I learned that Ed Dale was smooth-talking money-taking little shitwad quite content to take $300 from you every month while providing little more that feel good jibberish. And I learned that Irwin was happy to make a big honking promise in his UUA launch … and then just flat ignore it once he had found something else to occupy his attention; all the while taking $300 a month from you.

    My understanding of Irwin from that was he had a pretty cynical attitude toward his customers, and “helping” them succeed was a relative notion. He wasn’t particular interested whether people “succeeded” from using his advice … long as you pay each month.

    But boy … I had no idea how rotten this guy is.

    It looks like all these Syndicate Douchebags are fucking up, one after the other. First BrAndy (I’m actually starting to feel a bit sorry for Brad Fallon, how bad things have got for him), then Jeff Johnson turns out to be a shit-eating huckster, Ryan Deiss, Perry Belcher, all of them … their essential crookedness and dishonesty is coming back to them and turning their lives into steaming piles of shit.

    Looking at Kern’s current antics, and the scale of his cynicism (towards his customers, his family, and just people in general), I can’t imagine the grisly end that awaits him.

  23. Again, the overtness of Kern’s pimp act is disconcerting.

    It tells you all you need to know about how he views you, whether prospect or customer.

  24. @ SD and all

    Well, at the end of the day, I think Frank Kern is misunderstood — he really cares about people!!!

    The proof? He cares so much about them that to enrich their lives he will teach them about the manipulation of others.

    Isn’t it sweet?

    This also tells us about his view on life. Like any con man or grifter, he lives in a world view where the only way to make money is through deception. It’s interesting because it reflects also on how he sees himself.

    All the people featured in this website have one thing in common: lack of self-love.

    Therefore — if you feel you’re unable to receive love — the only way to get it is through deception / manipulation. Hence the super boring repetitive NLP / hypnosis trickery they all use to make their marks believe they are good people / to be trusted.

    @ VErn says it nicely: “I can’t imagine the grisly end that awaits him.”

    VERY true. The prognostic is NOT good.

    However, I am here to help!

    What Frank Kern really needs to turn his life around is simply a good business card!!!


    Feww… Problem solved!

    That was easy!

  25. All I have to say is that this asshole is a fucking loser.


    He is promoting a frauduct while his new lady and her unborn child are in a coma? FUCKING LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You soulless asshole Frank Kern. I want you to read this, you piece of crap!

    1. @Fran KKKern, haha! you are right! He finds a high priced prostitute that may not even have her green card, knocks her up like a dumbass teanager, shits on his beautiful family and is going to marry thios Russian mail-order bride that is a costly prostitute! LOL! They both juice steropids but she may have stopped if she has 1 brain cell left so she does not hurt the baby. That may not be his!hahahahaha

  26. Is it ok to ask a question on here? I am considering taking up the Ed Dale 30 day challenge that he offers for free. Loads of people say that it’s really good and that it is free but someone told me that he is a guy who works with someone called Frank Kern. I googled Ed Dale and found nothing but great things about him and then googled Frank Kern and found this and know I’m worried. I don’t want to get involved with anything that is to do with scams and cons.

    Is Ed Dale just another “version” of Frank Kern?

    1. @Jaded and confused,

      Short answer = yes.

      Go to Barnes & Noble. Buy any book on business or technology for less than $50. Read it two or three times. Assuming what you read makes sense, take immediate action based on what you read. You’ll get more from that than any “course” from this gang of idiots.

      P.S. Remember, fake robots notwithstanding, there is nothing magical the Internet. If you to make money online or off-line (without being a criminal), you need a real product or service that people actually (a) want, and (b) are willing to pay for. Services and products about “how to make money” do not count.

    2. @Jaded and confused, the 30 day challenge is just a 30 day long commercial where they give you extremely basic information mixed in with strong recommendations that you use certain software and services. of course they will tell you that there are free options and you don’t HAVE to spend any money, but of course you’ll just save SO MUCH time using these “tools” they’ve recommended. They’ll even offer a “special price” for their 30 day challengers.

      He’s another one that tells you to just pick any niche topic and just “start writing”! You’ll become an expert as you keep creating content. In other words, he teaches you to position yourself as an expert before you are an expert but then tells you that you should only be offering the public “good stuff” (which you really can’t do because……wait for it…..you’re not an expert on the topic.”

      This whole thing seemed like they were training people to just end up selling his stuff on crappy low value websites.

      I agree with @andyhair. If you are someone like a, say a software developer where you have an actual product that people can use, or are an actual service provider (e.g. real estate agent, lawyer, etc.) and want to use a blog/website for marketing purposes then you can find everything you need for free on the web. If you don’t have any idea of a product or service to sell and you think you are going to be able to create a web page and just be an affiliate, you will likely end up making $0 or just shilling for these MMO guys & gals (and still probably end up making $0).

      Just my two cents. (which might be the most you’ll make online with fools).

      1. @whatthewhat, I did it – three years ago. Made $10 bucks. Totally worth the 30+ hours I wasted on it :/

    3. @Jaded and confused,

      Some of the stuff is okay, but most of the 30DC is really slow-paced and as the others said, the goal is to turn you into a pseudo-expert with questionable advice.

      Problem is, the gurus usually attract loser-types who think their MAGIC BACKPAIN CURE site (which looks like the result of a 12 year old throwing a tantrum while using Frontpage) will make them all the monies; the gurus detest this kind of customer, so all their products tend to become shittier the longer they stay in business. After all, why try if your fans are idiots?

      Personally, I’d stay away from the whole IM-crowd as much as I can and get the basics from books. After that, come back for the 4-5 people who really know their stuff and are passionate about teaching the select few who want to master their field, not make millions with tumblr.

      This way, you’ll learn how to evaluate information (nope, how to setup a wordpress site is not a $50 value), save some cash and learn how real businesses operate.

    4. @Jaded and confused,

      OMG, I finally looked at “The Challenge” and it’s basically the dumbest shit ever. You would get more value watching Neigh-Oh-Me Dumb-ford pee into a pitcher under her kitchen table.

      To save you time, here’s a breakdown of the intelligent alternatives:

      Pre-Challenge Training
      1. Go to YouTube.com and figure out how to post videos of yourself.
      2. Sign up for an account at Twitter.com

      Module One
      1. Sign in/up at adwords.google.com and use their free keywords tool.

      Module Two
      1. Go to wordpress.com or blogspot.com and click the orange “start” button.

      Modules Three and Four
      1. Avoid all the work and just add “Spammer” to your email signature.

      Module Five
      1. Look up your area of “expertise” on Wikipedia.com.

      Module Six
      1. Wish really hard that your AdSense revenue will hit $50 so you can collect it.
      2. Wish really hard that your traffic was high enough to sign up for CJ or Linkshare.

      Module Seven
      1. Give up.
      2. Take donuts to your coworkers to apologize for ignoring your work and blathering on about blogging.

      1. @Lanna, Yep, that just about sums it up.

        Ed Dale’s 30 day challenge is a 30 day series of crap that drip feeds the gullible idiots that sign up for it with little nuggets of crap laced with sales pitches for things like Kajabi and the immediate edge and anything else that Ed Dale and his lab rat Dan Raine can put together.

        Will it make you any money? No. Of course it won’t.

        The really worrying thing is that the fake experts that this crap creates then go on to sell their own fake expert products.

        It’s basically a 30 day sales letter. Avoid anything Ed Dale or Dan Raine do like the plague. The kind of people that go for this crap can be summed up by watching the following video…


        Con, con, con. Two fucking idiots conning a bigger bunch of fucking idiots out of as much money as they can before the game is up.

    5. @Jaded and confused,

      @Ed Dale is full of shit,

      Ed Dale is far more manipulative than Frank Kern, as he goes under the radar and targets the average joe with his “tubby nerd” character, plenty of pictures of his family (never his wife).

      In all the major syndicate launches he is always hovering in the background, associating with all these”gurus”

      Ed Dale just rehashes information from Gary Halbert, Seth Godin, Timothy Ferris and Merlin Mann.

      Wonder why Ed Dale changed it from the 30 day challenge to the 3 months?

      Hostgator only pays affiliate commissions after 60 days! So when he says the new format was wildly successful this means “I made a lot more money”

      Here is the way Ed Dale @Ed_Dale (got that on your google alerts Ed?) works…

      “The Challenge is a module based training program, designed for busy people to work through at their own pace, which will show you step-by-step how you can make your first $1 online. ”

      Now what this video – CAUTION: You may need a sick bag


      The Challenge WILL NOT teach you how to build a website, it uses “WordPress Direct” a crappy auto install software.

      The Challenge WILL NOT teach you proper SEO to comply with the search engines guidelines.

      The Challenge WILL NOT help you start a business and leave your 9 to 5 job

      Ed Dale cannot show you 1 site that has worked using the Challenge! In fact none of these gurus can! Why?

      Because it doesn’t work, it’s a con, a sham, a trick

      The Challenge IS entertainment for those who want to mentally masturbate, just like the lottery – little effort for big gains

      And now that Google’s Panda update has rendered the Challenge system even more useless, this year’s Challenge is just a rehash of last year….squeezing every last dime out this train wreck of a “course”.

      BUT it doesn’t stop there…”Always be Shipping” Ed Dale’s latest $997 course harnesses the powers of social media, guru-ness and just plain awesome to make YOU a market leader, just like Ed Dale

      But really it’s about lining Ed Dale’s pockets…and how about the poor misguided desperadoes that money is coming


      “Geez! I was just ready to pull the trigger and sign up for this. Ed is even offering (through the end of today) a triple-your-money-back guarantee if, at the end of 12 months (of compliance!) you don’t get results.

      I thought it was a no-brainer. Guess I was wrong. Although it is curious that he would post the link to it in Module 5 if it was only for post-Challenge advanced marketers.

      If this course isn’t right for us newbies, is there some other additional training that would be a good next step?

      Thanks . . .”

      “Egads – I did it!

      I argued with myself right up until the deadline for registering with the discount/extended guarantee and then I pressed the submit button.

      Almost didn’t make it; thunder and lightening caused a couple of hiccups, but my registration went through before the witching hour.

      Thanks for your input and clarification, Dean and Bill.

      I don’t necessarily think that I’ve got the proper knowledge base, yet, for this course. But, perhaps that’s why I need it? As far as the workload, I’ve got a pretty good work ethic. Hoping that I can compensate for lack of understanding with a little more effort.

      Please send a good thought out into the universe for me.

      Grazie . . .”

      1. @Dan Raines Soul, I can’t get that video to play. Looks like you’ve got them on the run!

      2. @Dan Raines Soul, My mistake, it’s playing now. I guess Phil Mason must be one of Ed Dale’s shills. It’s also noteworthy that there are MORE kids being used AGAIN to promote this shit. Have these people got no morals at all?

        If Phil Mason wants to make himself look like a complete dick then that’s one thing but using kids to promote Ed Dale and Dan Raine junk? That’s so wrong.

        Frank Kern = Con man
        Ed Dale = Con man
        Dan Raine = Ed Dale’s lab rat / Con man
        Phil Mason = Ed Dale shill and gullible prick that uses kids to promote his masters work.

        Sound about right?

      3. @Dan Raines Soul, this one’s especially for Phill Mason (mustn’t forget that second L because without that we’d have no chance of getting found in Google, wouldn’t we PhilL?), Ed Dale’s musical shill.


        That’s a quick link to his page where all the Ed Dale idiots tell him how fantastic he is. Click that link as often as you can and Phil Mason / Ed Dale will notice maybe stop and realise that using chidden in promotional material isn’t cool. If we are lucky it might even trigger a trackback which will lead them all to the one place they don’t want to be – HERE!

        But wait, there’s more. Phill sells music for use as ringtones for Ed Dale’s challenge monkeys!


        You too can have this crap on your phone so that everyone knows that you love Ed Dale. Rock and roll, Phill, rock and roll.

        But wait, there’s even more. Phill wants you to pay $97 for a course that will make you a rock star!



  27. What a stand-up guy! Willing to risk prison in order to bring riches to us all!

    $52,500 worth of goodness for only $13,000? Who doesn’t want to save $39,500, raise your hands!

    I’d like to nominate this great humanitarian, Francis Irwin Kern, for the “Societies Heroic Internet Titan” (S.H.I.T.) of the year award!

  28. Am I mistaken or does he get more needy?

    Early 2010 Frank: “I’ll get away from info products and just work with real brick&mortar businesses locally and build a $300M company”

    2010 Frank: “I’ll work with a few already successful information product guys who have good products but stay out of IM as a teacher”

    2011 Frank: “I’ll teach IM, but only to those who jump through a dozen of unnecessary hoops and already have an IM businesses, so no newbs”

    Late 2011 Frank: “You got money? Great, you’re in”

    1. @Clark, Kern is on the bare bones of his arse. Lets hope he didn’t do a prenup with the ex-bread knife and she wipes the floor with him.

      This fucker says he makes money but after he’s paid his disciples (affiliates), Facebook bills and all the other marketing and business BS, bought a few boards, smoked some crack, taken his weekly therapy sessions – he’s got sod all left. Apparently!

    2. @Clark,

      Did you like the fake non disclosure Franklin sent out to his victims?

      He musta think their real dumby’s or something.

      1. @OJAJA,

        Yeah, his use of pre-framing is only slightly less comical than those audio sales letters with shitty NLP loops from the late 90s (BY NOW YOU PROBABLY ASK YOURSELF WHETHER YOU SHOULD BUY THIS PRODUCT NOW).

        But hey, he wrote the copy for stompernet which totally made a lot of money instead of blowing up and leaving customers unsatisfied and affiliates unpaid. Can’t believe he’s still bragging about it; it’s like the IM version of Enron, booking future revenue as todays profit and fucking over the team included.

  29. Kern must be certified insane and fast! What the hell is he banging on about with his NLP, NAC, SHIT on those recordings. His target market is the most naive and vulnerable you’ll find anywhere online or offline. There’s no skill selling to these guys. A bent value system is all that’s required.

    WTF Kern, you soooo crazeee!

  30. F**ck u for writing this hateful article… How could you be so dumb yourself… F****ck u upside down beach… Frank is just awesome and will remain that way.

      1. @Jack and @WhatTheWhat,

        The first time that word’s got two asterisks, so I think maybe it’s supposed to be “Frock” or “Flock,” implying @SD is priestly for helping the victims of these scams. That’s probably supposed to be “helpful,” not “hateful,” too.

        The second time, I think it’s actually missing an asterisk. I think it’s supposed to be “Fallback,” since, due to gravity, the sand and water of an upside down beach would fall back down to form a right side up beach again.

        Upside down beaches would be a good topic for your blog, Jack. I would enjoy reading about them. You could probably make some big affiliate moniez, too, from all the vacation companies advertising winter beach vacation.

        I’m not sure how any of these comments after the first one pertain to this blog or post, though, but what do you expect from someone who calls him/herself NASCAR but can’t even spell that properly?

        1. @Lanna, I was going about with ** = 1 letter, but your explanation is making much more sense for me now, really. I like the idea for doing the blog post, too.

  31. Why did you just shit on your family that once loved you and leave them in the dust? What goes around comes around; you better believe it. You best step up and take care of that first family that did love you before you invest your entire life into a high priced prostitute. Better get a DNA check man on that baby unless you are fucking stupid; which obviously you are by shitting on the family that did love you. DUH

  32. Salty D you are right on target..eccentric steroid-juicing jerks that sell smoke and mirrors and do NOT give a sh** about hurting ANYone hopefully will face God one day.I apologize if you thought I was talking about you! Forgive me. No, you are right on target about calling narcissists on their bullshit and how they will destroy others for their own promotion.

  33. I feel a bit weird because I bought Frank Kern’s Mass Control 2.0 and thought it was pretty good. However, I don’t think it was worth $1,997 but it wasn’t a scam either. I don’t know much about Frank Kern and his personal life but he does have some very interesting marketing skills.

    Maybe I’m missing something here. I completely accept that he is fake as a person and outrageously expensive but I don’t think he’s a scammer. Maybe I have just had a good experience. For those who have been scammed please let me know about your experience because if it just turns out that I was lucky then I want to know so I don’t buy anything more from him.


    1. @Jamo,

      Well, it’s sort of arguing definitions there.

      I completely accept that he is fake as a person and outrageously expensive

      I think that’s the important part. I wouldn’t call him a scammer, that just upgrades “real” scammers who insult you for asking for a refund or aggressively push you in some kind of upsell hell. It might also make it hard to differentiate between “real” businesses and scammers – I don’t know how many people here work in advertising, but selling dreams and overpricing your products isn’t exclusively used by get-rich-quick folks, just work with designer clothing labels or financial advisors for a while.

      I personally liked Mass Control when I first looked at it and I’m still using an adapted version of the 4DCM for my own sequencing, but I didn’t pay 2 grand for it and most likely wouldn’t have. Just for comparison – $2000 pay for 10 years worth of Mixergy and even that site got some attacks for being expensive.

      1. @Clark, Ah, ok. I see what you mean.

        I feel the same way about high fashion and financial services. I used to work in the jewellery industry and trust me, Frank Kern is mildly unethical compared to that lot including big names like De Beers and Tiffany’s.

        I guess I never really had a problem with with Mass Control because the money wasn’t a big issue to me and I never asked for a refund. I was also very aware of the fact that his marketing was high pressure stuff and I could see through that pretty easily so I have never felt like my intelligence was insulted because I bought into his message. I was just interested in how he managed to make so much money from his clients and on that count he delivered what he promised.

        Again, I do believe that his product is overpriced but I was aware of that right from the very beginning. I just figured it was worth a shot. I can understand everybody’s frustration completely if they thought that they were just going to open the box and think that it would be a straight line to millions from there. I just didn’t see the product that way so I’m probably unique in that sense.

        I guess I have a ambivalent view of Frank because I have seen real take-the-money-and-run scams on the internet. The worst place for me was forex robots. I review stuff like this for a living and some of these products are truly terrible. The worst are those forex trading robots like FAP Turbo. I honestly feel much more justified paying $1997 for Mass Control than $149 for FAP Turbo. With Mass Control I really did learn a lot and I gained a whole lot of insight into marketing even though I’m not making a bazillion dollars as promised. On the other hand, FAP Turbo has no educational benefit, the support staff are useless and on top of all that it doesn’t work. The only job the robot had was to work and it didn’t. With Mass Control I feel like I over paid but found a silver lining. With FAP Turbo, I feel like I was robbed and have nothing to show for it.

        However, you’re point is taken that he is fake and overpriced. In that sense, he is like De Beers and Tiffany’s; everybody just giving a good excuse to scam everybody else. Some are good at it, some not so good. It’s difficult for me to unpack this one clearly. I’ll work on it!:)

        1. @Jamo,

          Yeah, the forex stuff is pathetic. Story about that: One guy tried to sell a trading robot via porn sites once that was actually tied to an Eastern European botnet. Through his command server he could make your machine trade at critical points to evoke fake market scares, which he’d then exploit to make money.

          The whole thing was busted pretty quickly and apparently didn’t really work, but the criminal energy behind the project was scarily impressive – from the copy he’d use to make sure your computer is active at all times to the back-end employed to make sure he’d stay undetected.

          I don’t know what happened to him, but with this thing alone he’d probably qualify for Glazer-Kennedy marketer of the year for a decade. (They’re really strict when it comes to ethics…not)

          I think the important stuff about Frank has been said, at some point it’s just a matter of your own stance on politics and economics and questions like how much manipulation should be legal to allow the pursuit of profit.
          I’m not really a huge fan of capitalism, it seems like every good incentive it sets is paid for by 2-3 bad incentives; sadly, I haven’t yet found the “Alternative Economic System Secrets” package for $2997, so I’ll have to keep looking.

      2. @Clark,

        “I personally liked Mass Control when I first looked at it and I’m still using an adapted version of the 4DCM for my own sequencing, but I didn’t pay 2 grand for it and most likely wouldn’t have.”

        You “liked Mass Control” and you’re “still using an adapted version of the 4DCM [“4 Day Cash Machine”] for your own “sequencing?”

        What you call “sequencing” is fucking manipulation aka scamming. But whatever makes it sound less like the scam bullshit it really is…

        Like you also said:

        “it’s just a matter of your own stance on politics and economics and questions like how much manipulation should be legal to allow the pursuit of profit.”

        “Stance” is your look-the-other-way replacement word for “ethics” or the lack thereof. What a load of vague, self-indulgent psychobabble.

        Why are you even here? You don’t belong in the comments, you belong in a post.

        1. @Total Bullshit,

          What you call “sequencing” is fucking manipulation aka scamming.

          Yeah, no it’s not. It’s a sale with four reminders. If that’s scamming to you, then every marketer is a scammer.

          “Stance” is your look-the-other-way replacement word for “ethics” or the lack thereof.

          There are two implicit straw-men here:
          One, personal ethics don’t equal lawfulness. Calling someone a scammer imho implies that he’s involved in something that’s illegal or should be illegal.
          Branding your own product as cool and anyone who doesn’t own it as uncool may not be ethical, but should it be illegal? I think that’s worth arguing about.
          In conclusion, my not calling someone a scammer doesn’t imply that I think their behavior is ethical – just as I think Apple’s way of selling tech products isn’t exactly ethical, but I don’t think they’re effectively scammers.

          Two, me pointing out that you can differ on your stance on this issue doesn’t reveal which stance I personally hold. As I’ve mentioned in the previous post, I’m not a huge proponent of advertising, but with the current modus operandi, we can’t get rid of it either and still expect the economy to work. So there’s some kind of compromise between making people buy stuff and respecting people’s personal freedom required here.

          If that’s deserving of a post, let me have it. I’m open to criticism, but I don’t have time for idealist whining.

          1. @Clark, Bullshit. “Reminders?” Absolute bullshit. Your “stance” is patently obvious, bullshit boy. You’re just a two-bit, patronizing tool with an elevated view of his own stink.

            You’re a moron for even coughing up a reference to “implicit straw-men” in the same comment where you actually said, “to you, then every marketer is a scammer.”

            Salty wrote a blog post precisely about you a while back. Go look it up. It’s about the scammer-ass-kissing peripheral fringers who come here for shits and giggles. Until the sun shines on their own sorry asses, that is.

            Go stick your tongue back in Frank Kern’s ass, you scamming, rationalizing fuckwit, and shove the “4 Day Cash Machine” up your own sorry, convoluted ass, “sequencer.”

            1. @Total Bullshit, You’re not invited to this conversation. There was a constructive dialogue happening until you pitched up. Haha, judging by the way you are talking I bet you’re some little squirt who got the shit beaten out of him at school and now uses the internet to be a big boy. And you’re probably going to reply to this something along the lines of ‘fuck shit ass cunt kiss ass blah blah’. I bet you’re like Charlie Manson! Nazi insignia on your face and everything! Or you’re a paedophile. Either way, if Frank Kern scammed you I’m pretty happy; people like you don’t really deserve fair treatment.

            2. @Total Bullshit,

              Yeah, stuff like that is what annoys me about the site.

              I don’t mind being thumbed down, people disagree and they’re free to do that.

              But turning this thread of comments into a 4chan-type flame war (Jamo, you’re not exactly helping) is just pathetic.

              You can call me names all day long, but it’s doing fuck all to change anyone’s mind. Bringing an actual argument might – at least it would tell me where we differ.

              What you’ve done so far does little more than confirm the expectations your nick sets.

          2. Those “sequencing” or “reminders” are what really turns me off and gets me disinterested the fastest — I can understand “one” reminder, but after that, it just gets old — and incredibly annoying. And just how many sales do they pull in with all the extra “reminders” anyway? — one one hundredth or one thousandth or tenthousandth of 1 percent? So that’s worth pissing off all the rest?

            1. @Bonnie,

              Well, nobody reads long emails anymore, so I split them up in four parts. Haven’t really gotten any hate-mail so far, it doesn’t seem to increase churn and I personally don’t mind it, as long as the offer doesn’t suck and people use a tiny amount of creativity when it comes to subject lines. Numbers seem to vary, but usually the first and last mail perform best. A 40%/20%/10%/30% split would seem normal to me.

            2. @Clark

              So it seems to me that you could just eliminate those two middle ones and not lose much. Ok, Ok, I’m just teasing you now.

              I don’t know what kind of sales you’re into and whether or not you’re an honest fellow trying to make an honest living or not. But I still don’t like these repeat sales offers no matter what. They just smack of intrusion and bullying to me. AND desparation.

            3. @Bonnie, People tell me about that it all works so good outside-IM so finally I thought I better use it for my new song for the reengineered alphabet, so hopefully it can work for me doing that – especially because I found what I think is an untapped super-niche.

              One thing I found out about that I’m not figuring out is about that I can’t understand the idea yet about making good lists except for having the continually scrolling captchas program made for all my blog-comment friends that kept demanding it, so I can get more people to go onto the RSS.

            4. @Bonnie, The so-called “sequencing” is NOT “reminders.”

              That’s rationalization and smokescreen. In Kernland, it’s really a plotted, incrementing mountain of lies and deception.

              That’s what hypocritical idiots like “Clark” and “Jamo” and their ilk are promoting. It crosses the line, and goes deep into deceptionland.

              Don’t be fooled by anyone claiming it’s “no different” than a basic, straight-forward, old-school “mailing list” or (gag) “reminders.” It IS different. It’s neither of those things. It’s an intentional framework for deception.

              Think about it: if it WAS “just reminders” – who in their right mind would so smugly advocate the product of a con man – something that costs thousands of dollars, if it were “just reminders?”

              Answer: Nobody with a solid moral compass, because it is NOT about “reminders.” Total FAIL!

            5. @Kevin,

              “Don’t be fooled by anyone claiming it’s “no different” than a basic, straight-forward, old-school “mailing list” or (gag) “reminders.” It IS different. It’s neither of those things. It’s an intentional framework for deception.”

              I feel like I’ve entered bizarro land. The original 4DCM is a four-day sale with added bonuses. I’d understand if you’d slam it for being too simple or cheesy and I see Bonnie’s point, but I can’t comprehend how you arrived at your position. What exactly is your problem with the thing?

            6. @Clark, Since you’re so into “reminders,” I’m just reminding you that you’re pushing a scam. I think SD pretty well nailed it (see his comment below).

            7. @Clark, my problem with it is that Frank Kern’s techniques only work to sell crap “products” that basically are devoid of value (i.e. ebooks by people who have no business promoting themselves as experts and fake cures for real illnesses). If his methods were so legit, why aren’t they ever used to sell products of actual value, like Booker prize winning books or NyQuil? Let me help you answer that…because REAL marketing uses a product’s intrinsic value to make sales. Kern marketing uses deception to create an illusion of value for things I’d not even deign to call a product. That’s why what he does sucks.

          3. @Clark, what Frank Kern calls a “4 day cash machine” is also known as “having a sale.” The “sequence” is, more or less:

            Day 1: Tell them you’re having a sale.
            Day 2: Tell them you’re still having a sale.
            Day 3: Tell them the sale ends real soon.
            Day 4: Tell them the sale ends at midnight.

            Some people might be really amazed by that, but… well… um… it’s not actually amazing. Or original. Or even creative.

            1. @Unicorn Army, Here are the missing gaps in your description.

              Day 1: Tell them you’re having a sale on something that “normally” sells for more than it really does. Lie and pull out all the stops.
              Day 2: Tell them you’re still having a sale, and add more lies to how “good” you’ve already lied about it being.
              Day 3: Tell them the sale ends real soon, and that more people are buying it than really are. Pile on more lies.
              Day 4: Tell them the sale ends at midnight, and that they will never have another opportunity to buy it, ever. Scrape the barrel and add some really outrageous lies.

              Day 5-1/2: Tell them that “your shopping cart broke down” right before the “deadline” and to “make it up to everybody” offer to sell them the crap “if they hurry.” Add more lies. If you’ve run out of lies at this point, just lie about anything under the sun.

              Day 8: Tell them you had some “returns” of your ebook, and if they “act really fast” you will give them one LAST chance to buy, but “this is it.” Needless to say, find some extra lies and find a place to put them.

              After the “return period” ends: Offer this same lie-filled “product” as a “free bonus” for buying your next lie-filled “product.”

              Rinse, lie, and repeat.

            2. @Jack, Seriously! Another one trying to throw Kern a bone(r). WTF? This isn’t the “make excuses for crooks” blog. “Sale” my ass.

            3. @Jack, I was agreeing with you. I thought the way you phrased that showed just how ridiculous calling that a “sale” was.

            4. @Lou, Still I like that now we’ve hit the rubber-bone-idea, because I think if we add mr. Kern to the end of a classic Peanuts comic piece, we can summarize most/all SD category-people in one word:

              (Lucy has buried Linus’ blanket.)
              CB: Why don’t you don’t let me try to find some sort of substitute for your blanket? Maybe I could get you a dishtowel or something.
              Linus: Would you give a starving dog a rubber bone?
              Frank Kern: (excited) YES!

            5. @Dale & @Bonnie, nice description of what Kern actually does. I was just trying to help Clark understand how useless the bullshit “sequencing” he thinks he learned actually is.

    2. @Jamo, you have to understand that there’s a large lynch mob here that will call anything to do with marketing a scam and anyone that is even slightly coherent in pointing out that marketing manipulation happens every day with every product and every advertisement they see – a scammer. They just love being part of a baying pack of hounds on the hunt.

      This site has allowed them to think they are not part of the human spectrum where some people are doing bad things for good reasons or doing good things for bad reasons. Every second they are focused on someone else means they don’t need to look at, or fix, their own faults. That’s what being human is all about, the laziness.

      More painfully is the “real job” ethic that is being pushed when entrepreneurship and small business is what gets economies going. Hurrah for pushing for mediocrity.

      1. @Jamo ::

        I see this commercial about how buying a Ferrari from Tubby West Auto will make my dick feel bigger … so I go buy one cause this whole tiny dick situation is killing me. But then … my dick doesn’t feel any bigger.

        It’s kind of immoral what they did … making me think about my tiny dick like that … but nobody really needs the handcuffs. Maybe some people will want to argue that we shouldn’t allow advertisers to imply things about their products that aren’t true. That’s a fine argument … the counter argument is also fine. We decide as a collective what kind of ads we’ll allow … so it’s a good thing to never stop talking about.

        Now I open the hood and notice that my Ferrari has an engine from a 1993 Toyota Corolla. Okay … handcuff time.

        Slime ball car dealer Tubby West already spent my money … he goes to jail … I blog about how evil he was.

        Then someone shows up in the comments and they’re like …

        “It still basically functioned like a car … FREE Tubby West!!!! He’s fucking innocent!”

        @Clark ::

        You are always mentioning your personal experiences as though you are above the fray. So why don’t you just email me your sites and I’ll go look and then I can confirm or deny your status as a delusional fucking hypocrite?

        @Anonymous ::

        If there’s a mob here … it’s made up of insane cats.

        and also …

        Your momma is the one telling you to get a job.

      2. @,

        “This site has allowed them to think they are not part of the human spectrum where some people are doing bad things for good reasons or doing good things for bad reasons.”

        Also has allowed people to find which gurus are/have been part of the full-on-scam spectrum:
        Perry Belcher reunion show
        Stephen Pierce – Black America Online.
        Amish Shah teaching cybersquatting & brandjacking
        Frank Kern Underachieving

        Put the last one TOGETHER with the FTC lawsuit (or even without it) and tell me about hero-Kern.

        No lynch-mob here, just look at FACTS. I’m OK to pay SeoMoz $97/month for REAL intel for 2 – 5 years vs. paying same amount on ONE DAY for syndishit.

      3. Anon December 15th, 2011 at 2:30 pm, @SD’s latest answer to Jamo (December 15th, 2011 at 3:14 pm) addressed the critical issues quite well, and more amusingly than I ever could. But I’ll add some of my thoughts, although we’ve discussed these matters here before. Many times.

        Yes, marketing manipulation does happen every day, and no, it doesn’t necessarily mean the marketer is a scammer or is engaging in fraud. I don’t think anyone here in the “lynch mob” is seriously arguing that all marketing is a scam. (No one here is arguing that all entrepreneurs are scammers either, or that entrepreneurship isn’t “real” work. I think you know this.)

        So why isn’t the “mob” here going after the huge corporations? Well, there are numerous OTHER sites, organizations, and agencies devoted to consumer manipulation and fraud in general. I imagine that most of the people who participate here are particularly interested in specific genres of marketing manipulation — the “and-you-can-too” IM crowd who (1) deal in false promises and (2) increasingly have ties with the McSpirituality/selfish-help areas (which have long interested me).

        See, it all comes down to one’s areas of interest, and different blogs and sites address different areas. No one can fight every battle. You gotta pick ’em.

        The fact that automakers, cosmetics firms, and major breweries also practice manipulation, and that sometimes they produce shoddy products, doesn’t make the sins of the and-you-can-too IM-ers, New-Wagers, McSpirituality gurus, and selfish-help rockstars any less egregious.

        Too often in the context of discussions such as this, the “all marketing is manipulation” argument is a red herring.

        And I think you know that too.

  34. Did you know Kern is a well-known bisexual? Orgies galore! Then he met his dream dwarf at an orgy and fell in love and knocked her up. He hates women; esp. pregnant ones.. WTF? Just be GAY, man or BI and be proud!!! Hey and there’s nothing, nothing, nothing at all wrong with that. Its politically correct. His wife now appears to have morphed into a fatass troll. OOOHH what a prize trophy dwarf to hide behind an orgy world of illicit drugs and steroids. WOW what a life. You better find God,Irwin Frank or whoever you worship. Oh thats right, you worship yourself and like to sh** all over your beautiful family you once had. DUMBASS!!!! oooohhhh the truth stings.

  35. Geez u people are sick wishing harm on any human being with a family! I’ve never bought his products, but the guy is human. Grow up people!!!!!

  36. [email protected] says:

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    1. @freemercytemple@gmail.com,



      Um… as for testimonials supporting the claim that love spells really work… I think you’re in the wrong place.

      It’s great that you’re getting married. Good to know it all worked out.

      In explaining exactly why things turned around for you, watch out for Post hoc ergo propter hoc; or as I like to put it: correlation does not prove causation.

      In other words: ok you performed a spell or ritual that you bought from someone and things worked out with your boyfriend. … That, and even your belief that the spell “worked” are still not sufficient to prove that the spell is the actual cause of the turn of events.

      It could be that the same events would have occurred even without the spell.

      Or, what’s more likely IMHO: the spell was important but only in the same way that Dumbo needed his feather. You needed to believe that the spell was working in order to have the courage to do what you needed to do with your relationship. Happily, it worked out.

      Good luck. May you be touched by the FSM’s noodly appendage.

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  37. Haha you hateful bastards are fun.

    I bet 99% of you are still slaving away at a day-job and even thought you “tried” to make it on your own you kept failing so that means these “systems” are lies and everybody telling you you can actually make it online are a bunch of “scammers”.

    FYI there’s way more scammers out there trying to get your money than real marketers… its up to you to filter them out if you truly want to pick someone to learn from (which is not a must by any means)

    Business is not for everybody… some people are just built to work for the man all their lives, nothing wrong with that… just don’t blame it on the “system”. Usually a good tell for knowing if you suck at it is if you enrolled into any sort of an MLM “business” model.

    – Anonymous

    P.S. Frank is awesome but… if you give him 12 grand you either have a crush on the guy or you seriously should consider a psychiatric evaluation.

    1. @Anonymous Crew ::

      Sounds like you gots this all figured out smart guy … pat yourself on the back … or at the very least autofellatiate.

    2. @Anonymous Crew, It’s a comment fraudicative of much bigger problems, such as not understanding any difference between scams & business. Please point to your big successful business or even one REAL business

      Frank Kern made? My bet is I will sell more scrolling captcha programs than you will ever even get visitors to your websites or so-called “businesses”.

      Before you make your attempt to avoid reading the following, then you should first go through this book and maybe get your mommy and daddy to check your work:

      All know about the FTC problems, but no need to even think about them to see how mr. Kern’s “empire” quickly unravels when looking at FACTS:

      Irwin F. Kern speaking at he and Ed Dale’s “Underachiever” seminar in the loathsome and marsupial bespeckled land of Australia :: circa 2004.


      Video is gone, but mr. Kern says in the video how he NEVER made a penny before starting internet marketing and then makes up a sales page claiming:

      “My unprofessional little home made website brought in $115,467.21 last year and you’re about to discover how you can do the same”

      Since you seem a bit too dim-witted to get it…he made up the income and the sales letter=”based on lies”.

      Then think about 2003 for the “Infomillionaire” product which launched April, 2003:

      Where he tells us about…

      “the same system that still brings me an average of $68,528.33 each and every month like clockwork”

      With the good testimonial from mr. Stephen Pierce who was already into the Making Shit Up For Making Sales tactic(7) and gets found guilty of fraud on January 21, 2003, which makes for the fascinating choice of “Testimonial-Givers” from mr. Kern on April, 2004.

      Later Frank tells us about making his first $1,000,000 selling Serializer Method which mr. Kilstein, who once presented Christopher Tomasulo (a.k.a., mr. FTC 12 million dollar judgement) as the big marketing expert brags about using the meaningless NDAs and also pumping mr. Kern into Jeff Walker fake perceived value the by telling him:

      “Frank wanted to sell a DVD set for $997 dollars and sell a thousand of them. I told him the value was much higher. He was incredulous. “You think you could get people to buy a DVD set at a higher price?” I suggested a price tag of $7000. We compromised at around $4000. It would be the highest priced product to ever hit the market.”

      Perceived value maybe is the most abusive form of fraud and the foundation of much of fraud all the way from pump-and-dump schemes to ripping off vulnerable IM targets who know no better.

      1. @Jack,

        Holy crap, this is for realz?

        I suggested a price tag of $7000. We compromised at around $4000. It would be the highest priced product to ever hit the market.

        $4k for a set of Frank Kern DVDs?


        It reminds me of parenting theory. (However, a parent, I certainly am not…)

        There is that rap about how kids/teenagers will push against boundaries just to see how far they will go. Then it’s to be important to have consequences for those boundaries so that they become aware of the consequences of their actions.

        Then inside of that, it is actually supposed to create a sense of security and awareness as long as those boundaries/consequences are consistently enforced.

        … or something …

        Anyway, these $4k DVDs and the phone call with Walker and Jenkins talking about charging $5000 for Video Boss … To me it rings of a group of teens sitting in an alley somewhere scheming…

        “C’mon, let’s just do it guys! Don’t be a pansy. You’re mom’s not going to find out. I just KNOW it will work. We’ll TOTALLY get away with it. It’s not like Old Man Jones needs that Camaro anyway. Just don’t wuss out on me at the last second!”

        It just seems to me to be a game to them all with no consequences.

        I saw the interview with Kern and Robbins (“The New Money Masters Series”) in which he talked openly and without reservation about charging about 8x the value for his products.

        He went on to say something along the something along the lines of:

        “I think I should get a lot of money. I deserve to make a lot of money. So why wouldn’t I [charge a lot for my products]?”

        (Note: That quote is not verbatim, but you can probably torrent the file somewhere. It’s about halfway through the interview. Can you believe they expect you to pay $67 for a one hour interview full of that crap? Now where did I put my affiliate link…)

        ANYWAY… that part REALLY irked me when I saw it (even before I purged my body of the Kern Kool-Aid).

        Now I think I have connected the dots. Perhaps this sort of nigh-price-brinkmanship of info products is not so different from a the bratty teenager mindset of seeing how much he can get away with.


    3. @Anonymous Crew,

      Please! Frank is a total huckster. All you IMers think you know so much about marketing just because you’re trying to run your own business, but you don’t know jack. You in your little fish bowl of SEO bs are completely oblivious to the complex synchronization of product development, pricing strategy, trend analysis and promotional planning and execution that goes into successful real (dare I suggest corporate as in by “the man”?) marketing. You’ve heard some of the terms, sure, but when I look at your ghetto websites with your blustery copy and your eye-gouging design lacking any originality whatsoever promoting worthless crap, it’s perfectly clear you have as much understanding of marketing principles as a kindergartner has of calculus. You recognize the numbers, but you’ve no idea what they mean and you don’t even know it.

      The fact that you think what you do is business and what the rest of us do in our corporate jobs is somehow not business, just shows your ignorance and how small time you are. Maybe the real slam here is that some people just aren’t built to make it in the big pond. Hmm, little fish?

    4. @Anonymous Crew, I made a post waiting approval where I have given you your first simple step to recovery. My guess is it’s something for you to have missed growing up as a child.

    5. @Anonymous Crew,

      1) I run a tiny ad consulting agency
      2) The systems are lies

      You can learn some amount of good stuff using some of them, and there have been decent products by some folks who have also sold hype, but usually when you’re buying a “system”, you’re buying one of the following:

      A) Tactics that might be useful for “real” businesses, but won’t make you any money as a startup
      B) Biz-in-a-box type products that are too basic to offer any meaningful advice to someone who has spent more than 2 hours considering starting a business. You should come up with an idea the market likes? Gee, I never would’ve thought of that!

      And for Frank: I posted a short video clip of him somewhere on this site, but I can’t seem to find it right now…basically says that the reason he thinks the fault lies with the people, not the system, is that he’s selling the systems.

      These gurus remind me of corrupt officials – they’ll always find some folks who’ll buy their propaganda and the disillusioned rest can be ignored very easily when you’re living in a palace far, far away from your populace…or customers.

    1. @Lollerz, My plan now is to make some big thud-money by doing the frank-Kern Reformat-to-big-money-trick. I build scrolling-captchas in my spare time and want to sell my views to them on my website for $47, but now I think I will make videos of them for people to look at them for $497. Also I am putting in coaching for making sure that people can pay me at least $5,000 for believing that the scrolling-captchas will change their life and also their destiny, too.

      Also, I hate you.

    2. @Lollerz,

      You don’t “make money” online. You sell things or services. But as most of the guys in the IM scene have nothing of value to offer, nor adequate managerial skills to start a legit business, all they can do is produce shitty, quickly thrown together products with questionable value and sell them with lots of hype.

      Not surprisingly, a lot of the folk that actually “makes money” has past experience running MLM schemes, spamming, hacking or building botnets. They don’t get queasy about selling crap anymore.

      So, what’s wrong with getting people out of the crap-making business and back to doing something productive?

    3. @Lollerz,

      “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

      But as is so often the case in these farcical attempts at debate, we probably won’t even be able to agree on what counts as “extraordinary”.

      The catch phrase here is “…you can’t make money online.” When we write this, we don’t mean that no single person using the Internet has ever had a successful online transaction wherein one party sold a legitimate and valuable good or service to another party and thereby had a monetary profit.

      Instead, we just mean: you can’t actually make money out of, essentially nothing.

      And now you’re probably doing the doublethink. One part of you is irritatedly agreeing with me, while another part of you is missing the point.

      Ah, fuck it. I’ll just quote The Droid again
      “Read one now before you die of stupid”:
      Make Money Online Hotdogs
      The Syndicate Presents James Arthur Ray
      Syndicate Shit Storm

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  38. I came across this forum as I was researching Internet marketing. I am new to the Internet and wanted to start to learn more about using the net, not just Internet marketing but also other aspects of the Internet. I am an old age pensioner but believe that you need to embrace new things to keep your mind young. I would like to say that I don’t know if the people who are being spoken about are bad people or not, as I have never heard of them. There does seem to be a lot of negative feelings towards them and this must come from some of their ‘maybe’ negative actions. It is not for me to comment on that. However, I would like to comment on the extremely harsh comments from some of the people on this forum. One person put forward, what I thought, was a good point in relation to Frank Kern. That person was then insulted rather badly for his comments. This gave me the impression that this forum is not an open discussion for people to put forward their thoughts. But a forum where if you don’t agree with some people you get insulted. Also why are some of the comments hidden. I can understand why some of them are due to aggressive comments and bad language but some of the comments seemed to me to be fair?

    With regards


    1. @John, Hello, and welcome from a long time follower of this blog. All of the comments here can be viewed. However, some may be voted down by readers (actually just “minimized”) and that is what you see as “hidden.”

      You might initially feel the tone of many comments is harsh. On the other hand, you will also find many victims here, and quite understandably, they are upset. Some have lost tens of thousands of dollars, their life savings in some cases. This is one of the few outlets that actively supports these victims. They are systematically silenced on the very blogs and websites of those who scammed them in the first place, but here they have a place to speak openly. The scammers also appear from time to time, usually to stir up trouble, or to blame the victims for being victims. Needless to say, that is not well received.

      In addition, this blog exposes some of the most ruthless, calculating psychopaths you could ever cross paths with. These consciousless people tend not to respond to courtesy, but only to very loud noise. For that reason, you’ll see very little honey in use here, except that which is extended to the victims.

      The operator of this blog – and keep in mind his presence here is in character (hence the “Salty”) – once responded to the sentiment you expressed thusly:

      “Think of this blog as a book, and you’ve just opened it in the middle, at page 472.”

    2. @J jones,

      Well, what you’re being sold in the Internet Marketing / Make Money Online community is the dream of becoming rich within an abnormally short period of time by selling things on the Internet. The success rate is tiny and the ones who do succeed rarely add any real value to the marketplace while the ones who don’t lose lots of money chasing the dream, hurting themselves and close ones in the process.

      So, considering all the mischief and mendacity that surrounds IM, it’s understandable that people get emotional and the tolerance threshold for IM apologists is pretty low. Negative biases are pretty strong on here, though, so don’t expect debates about the ethical facets of contemporary advertising.

      If you’d like to keep your mind young, IM/MMO might not be your vehicle of choice – if feel like I’m turning into an old miser just by reading about it. If “new” isn’t a deal breaker for you, poker or chess might be of interest. I’ve played both for short periods of time (~1,5yrs each) and I’m still surprised how often I can apply the mental models I established in those games to real life decisions. (If the use of mental models seems exotic to you, I’d highly recommend everything ever by Charlie Munger, especially “Elementary Wordly Wisdom”)

      However, if you insist on learning something new and trendy, check out some of the interviews on Mixergy.com. The quality of speakers seems to have dropped off slightly, but there’s still lots actual entrepreneurs sharing their successes and failures.

      Best of luck,

    3. @J jones,


      If you’re truly serious about wanting to get a handle on understanding all the palavar about Internet Marketing, the I strongly suggest you start with this article on The Verge:
      Get Rich Quick Schemes [theverge.com]

      (Interesting choice of handle, btw.)

      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  39. All of you are idiots and morons. He’s a smart business man. Move on. His personal life is none of your business. You’re all losers that will never make it anywhere on your own because all you do is complain. Good luck with life, see how bitching about everything and everyone in this world works out for you.

      1. @Cosmic Connie, Kern is not your child’s first grade teacher. Just like everything else in life, take what you want out of his courses and leave the things you don’t like. Is everyone in business supposed to be a saint? He’s not running for the school board. You people are adults. What does his personal life have ANYTHING to do with making money? That IS the reason people seek him out isn’t it? And his content is quality. So if you people were looking for a business mentor that is also a holy bishop then you’re working with the wrong guy. Don’t be business immature, you’re not interviewing Kern to become your business partner. Take what he gives you, mind your own business and leave what you don’t want behind. It’s sad that there are adults that want to start business and the people that they’re attracted to the most are not the pioneers and innovators but their critics. No statues have ever been erected for critics. Those are the 97%. The people that are not just ignorant but are ignorant about changing themselves.

        1. @ Anonymous,

          “No statues have ever been erected for critics.” — I think you might have missed this post. (scroll to the end to find pictures of statues of Martin Luther, Jesus, and MLK,)

          Also, I think you may have completely missed @Cosmic Connie’s point. Seems to me she clearly said that he is the one using his personal life in order to sell products.

          “What does his personal life have ANYTHING to do with making money?” — this sounds like a question you should ask him. Ask him why he use pictures of his daughters to sell products? Why does he use his girlfriend’s/fiance’s(?) ill health to sell products? (I think maybe it’s manipulation of people’s emotions).

          We are criticizing the fact that he does that (to sell products) and also that in doing so he is trying to pawn himself off as some kind of upstanding family man (to sell products) when in fact, his actions seem to show the opposite.

          Tell me again how someone who would exploit his children and his partner’s ill health to get me to buy his stuff is a solid business man and I should trust him (or any product he makes)?

          1. @What the what, Jesus and MLK stood up for what they believed in. They didn’t go around crushing dreams. Those people with negative opinions are critics. Get it right.

            Look if you don’t know what industry we’re in, you wouldn’t understand why someone would tell you their personal story. I’ve been in sales for half my life and I’ll tell you something. People don’t buy products, people buy people. So if he’s telling you his story it’s for more reasons that you people could ever imagine. I’m not gonna teach you guys sales psychology but what you don’t know is that any large purchase you’ve made, you’ve made by working with people you trust. You wouldn’t know the reason he’s doing what he’s doing if it was standing right in front of you.

            That’s why Frank Kern is Frank Kern and the rest of you are just critics that hide behind the Internet.

            1. @ Everybody — sorry guys, this is gonna be another long one. There’s just so much here to take apart and parse through.


              “Jesus and MLK stood up for what they believed in.”

              — (Oh man, very first sentence and already there are issues. This doesn’t look good). The only reason you would have made this statement is because you believe and are asserting that SD & the rest of here who support him are not standing up for what we believe in. It’s a very poor tactic to make such a huge assumption about the people you are arguing against right out of the gate. Because if your assumption is false there is a good chance the rest of your entire argument fails. And guess what? Your assumption fails.

              The people here believe that someone should not profit from holding themselves out as experts at things they are not experts at. They should not profit from selling a “system” that they claimed they used to make millions when that “system” only brought them money AFTER they talked people into buying it (and not before). We believe that people should not profit from forming a syndicate to provide false social proof to convince people to buy their products. We believe that people should not profit from selling their customers information to high pressure boiler rooms (or giving that information for a cut of the boiler room’s profits). And we are standing up for those beliefs.

              “[Jesus & MLK] didn’t go around crushing people’s dreams.”

              — 1. Actually, yes they did. MLK crushed the dreams of bigots all over the country who thought they would be able to ride along on their white privilege for the rest of eternity. Jesus crushed the dreams of hypocritical religious leaders (for one) that they would be able to continue with their hypocritical use of religion for a political agenda and still being able to go to heaven or find favor with God (assuming any of them actually believed in God anyway).

              2. You also are not defining whose dreams we are crushing. I can only assume you mean the people who buy Kern’s product. Kern is selling false dreams. The dreams Kern is selling cannot be realized. What would Jesus do? Allow people to follow false hope and false promises? Or tell them the truth so that they can spend their limited time, money, blood, sweat, and tears on a venture that will actually provide them with some benefit?

              If you are claiming that we are crushing Kern’s dreams of fleecing people out of their hard earned money….well then, yes. Yes you are correct we are proudly doing that. But this is not a very effective argument because it presupposes that we should care about Frank Kern in the first place which kind of puts the cart before the horse.

              “Those people with negative opinions are critics. Get it right.”

              –This following your statement about Jesus & MLK makes it appear that you are asserting that Jesus and MLK (who, as you claim, did not go around crushing dreams) are different than “those people with negative opinions” which is what makes “those people” critics and MLK and Jesus not critics. This is also wrong. MLK had negative opinions on the government, police tactics, people who used violence to support the civil rights movement, racists, etc., etc., etc. But I’m glad that we are on the same page and agree. MLK was a critic.

              Jesus also had negative opinions about religious hypocrites, the people trying to stone Mary Magdalen, and the people who were using the temple as a market place, etc., etc., etc. So, again, glad we agree that Jesus was also a critic.

              “Look if you don’t know what industry we’re in, you wouldn’t understand why someone would tell you their personal story.”

              –I’m glad you at least qualified this with “if you don’t know” because at least now you stopped making assumptions. I’m not exactly sure what business you are in because you haven’t told me. But I know exactly what business Frank Kern is in. I refer you to my paragraph above where I described what we believe in.

              ” I’ve been in sales for half my life and I’ll tell you something. People don’t buy products, people buy people.”

              — First of all, people don’t buy people. Not since the 13th amendment outlawed slavery. And secondly, this is such a cliche. If two people are selling the exact same product and one of them is an asshole, I’m probably going to buy from the person that isn’t an asshole. True. But if a really really nice person is selling a turd of a product and a huge douche is selling a good, reliable product? I’m not gonna buy the turd just cause the salesperson was great guy or gal and the other person was meany-pants.

              “So if he’s telling you his story it’s for more reasons that you people could ever imagine.”

              –What’s with the “if he’s telling you his story”? Do you not believe us that he is telling us his personal story? If you don’t believe us why don’t you read the post and listen to the audio where…he tells his personal story.

              Secondly, you are making another assumption (false) and the use of the phrase “you people” is a terrible thing to use in an argument. You say “you people” to create “otherness”. You are of one type we are of another type of people. It is incredibly hostile and is likely to make anyone who even slightly disagreed with you now wholly disagree with your point. When in fact we are all people of the same type….all homo sapien sapien.

              And anyway, we know exactly why he is telling us that his girlfriend is in the ICU. Notice how he also equates his business with his ability to pay her bills, letting people know at a subconscious level that if he can’t make money he can’t pay her bills. He is trying to manipulate kind and caring people to feel sorry for him so they will buy his crap and he will make money. Er, what did you think he was doing?

              “I’m not gonna teach you guys sales psychology but what you don’t know is that any large purchase you’ve made, you’ve made by working with people you trust.”

              — Again with the assumptions. First of all, duder, you don’t know me from Eve, so I don’t know where you get off talking about what I do or don’t know. And no, I don’t always make large purchases from the salesperson I trust. Sometimes I do research and know my rights.

              Let me tell you a short story. The biggest purchase I have made to date was a 4 x 4 off road truck. The asshole at the dealership had the balls to ask me “What do you need with an off road vehicle just to commute to work? If you wanted the extra space wouldn’t you prefer a mini van?” Note, I didn’t tell him I was only going to use my truck to commute to work. It’s what he assumed because I’m a small statured lady person. I though he was a jerk, a misogynist and I didn’t trust him. But I brought from him anyway because I did my research, knew exactly what I wanted, it was hard to find, and I was able to negotiate with him so that I got the truck for the price I wanted. And I was on their ass every step of the way to make sure the sale went down exactly the way they said it would.

              –Also, I don’t think you know how trust works. I don’t trust someone because s/he gives me a sob story about his kids or his girlfriend’s hospitalization. I was once in the ICU for almost a week. I had sepsis and almost died. I had to spend another two weeks in the hospital after I got out of the ICU. Do you trust me now? No! Of course not! Because I haven’t done anything to earn your trust…oh like, make promises and then deliver on them!

              “You wouldn’t know the reason he’s doing what he’s doing if it was standing right in front of you.”

              — Oh I do know. To you I say: you wouldn’t know the reason he’s doing what he’s doing if it was standing right in front of you. Because I shudder to think the truth is, you do exactly what he’s doing and you would come here and argue with disingenuous self-righteousness anyway.

          2. @What the what,

            Yeah, @What the what. Get it right. MLK never had any negative opinions about Jim Crow laws or segregated schools or segregated lunch counters or employment discrimination.


            Even when he called de facto segregation of public schools “a basic social evil,” you could tell he meant it in a good way. And he didn’t crush anybody’s dreams; if you want to send your kids to a segregated school, by golly, you can still do it!

            People outside the scam industry just don’t understand that con artists like Irwin Frank Kern tell you their personal story, which doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with making money, to gain your trust.

            You’re never gonna be a big-time scammer like Irwin unless you stop talking about the product you’re offering and start talking about your family members’ medical problems!

            1. @Lanna,

              Nicely done…and is far, far fewer words than it took me. I think I need to study your efficient use of words to make arguments.

        2. @,

          “What does his personal life have ANYTHING to do with making money?”

          I know, right? Why did Kern mention his girlfriend in the ICU five times?!

          “No statues have ever been erected for critics. Those are the 97%.”


  40. you are all fucking moron!! i know all the people in this sorted tail and no one was in a drug induced coma, except that which saved the life of the mother and the baby, and if anyone left their first wife with a shed of self respect it’s this dude.
    find something else to focus on because clearly you all are deprived of any real intelligence!

  41. I made $4.3 million to date using Frank’s methods. My blog is visiting sometimes over 10,000 daily and my books and memberships have been selling like wild fire. But the real money (after only making $ 1/4 million online ) is upselling to private consulting .

    I am not a fiction but the real deal. Frank Kern works. Period. Don’t just buy Frank but get his memberships too. Get him to personally coach you. DON’T RIP HIM OFF else he prevents you from going to his main courses, and you will FOREVR stay PISSSSSSSSS POORRRRR, i mean seriously POOOOOR….

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