147 Comments »

Cosmic Connie said:
Maybe Death Ray mumbled too much when speaking with the Universe. He always tried to exploit indigenous traditions in some awful way, so these matters were probably on his mind a lot. Perhaps the Universe misheard him and thought he was really focusing on INDIGENT traditions instead. And it finally delivered.
And in other news (and as I’m sure you know), Christopher Hitchens passed away yesterday at the age of 62 from pneumonia, a complication of esophageal cancer.
WINNER!! ::   +16
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 9:18 am
Of course, given his apparent educational limitations, perhaps Ray just got those two words confused himself. (But when *I* was in eighth grade, I knew the difference between “indigenous” and “indigent.”)
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 8:41 am

Rafael Marquez said:
If this is what “Harmonic Wealth” means, then I’ll take “tunelessly broke” every single frakking time.
WINNER!! ::   +19
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SD Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
@Rafael Marquez ::
frakking!
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 9:46 am

Kerry said:
R.I.P Christopher Hitchens!
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:38 am
@Kerry, Amen (pardon the expression).
  +2
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Mario Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@Kerry,
R.I.P. indeed Mr. Hitchens. He definitely did it his way…
“Hitchens is known for his love of cigarettes and alcohol…Hitchens admits to drinking heavily; in 2003 he wrote that his daily intake of alcohol was enough “to kill or stun the average mule”, noting that many great writers “did some of their finest work when blotto, smashed, polluted, shitfaced, squiffy, whiffled, and three sheets to the wind.”*
More importantly, I doubt Mr. Hitchens would have had much use for the Death Ray Douchebag (rot in hell jackass)who fashioned himself as God. Hitchens argued that the concept of god or a supreme being is a “totalitarian” belief that destroys individual freedom… (as was so unfortunately evidenced in Sedona).
Seems to me that may have been a more valuable teaching than the bullshit Death Ray was serving up. Just sayin’…
*wikipedia
WINNER!! ::   +11
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Babzilicious Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
@Kerry,
RIP indeed. My heart is broken …
  +4
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# 16 December 2011 at 10:54 am

It could happen to anyone said:
Munger Tolles & Olsen are almost like a real-world Wolfram Hart. I fully expect the “Senior Partners” to be malevolent creatures from a demonic realm, eagerly accepting animal sacrifice and worse…
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:56 am
@It could happen to anyone: Demonic lawyers, demonic clients.
http://tinyurl.com/7bofqqr
  +5
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 11:11 am

Bonnie said:
Salty, this is a photo of JAR that Connie Joy posted on her blog — she said it was the look that James Ray gave her during the trial… “That is his smug condescending look that he gave me when he pushed in front of me to force eye contact.” and “The irony of this photo with the courthouse sign in the background and his attitude on face can’t be missed.”
http://www.dcourier.com/SiteImages/Article/101034a.jpg
I just wish his every move was being filmed and taken into account during the trial. After killing four people and injuring and ruining the lives of many hundreds or thousands of people, he STILL had that, “Ha ha ha, I am better than you, You can’t touch me, I am untouchable, I AM GOD complex” and was and is still trying to further hurt and dominate those he felt and feels were beneath him (as is everyone, apparently, according to him). He clearly cared and cares for and about no one other than himself and his own selfish and self centered interests. I truly hope this all backfires on him and he gets the true punishment that he so deserves and should have gotten in the first place. Too bad Sheila Polk can’t take Judge Darrow to court as well.
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:36 am
@Bonnie,
Sorry, I was hoping it would imbed, like the video I (accidently) was able to post. lol
Maybe you can post it, Salty. The look is truly demonic and insensitively cruel and really shows his true colors. Not that we didn’t already know what his true colors are.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:40 am
@Bonnie,
Oh, I almost forgot — one of the commenters on Connie Joy’s blog said to take a piece of paper and look at half of JAR’s face in that photo and then look at the other half — it’s really shocking and spooky and creepy all at once!
  +6
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Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
@Bonnie,
A further comment from Connie Joy (who wrote the book, “Tragedy in Sedona”, for those who don’t know) on this photo:
“after he walked away I thought, he killed my friend, he almost killed another one, he hurt many friends physically & emotionally, and he took off with $56,250 of my money without even a “sorry” and millions from others, AND this is the look he gave me! He wanted the close face to face with that look to let me know that my attempt to stand against what he had done was a joke to him. He really does believe that he is a superior human being and that we are so pitiful for not recognizing it.”
WINNER!! ::   +12
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Babzilicious Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
@Bonnie,
*grrrrrr* What a bastard.
WINNER!! ::   +9
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Jack Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:19 pm
@Bonnie, I went and put it together, but taking too long to get caption on it until LOA throws me up to Oprah Twitter for our Oprah Life Lesson:

  +4
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Bonnie Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 11:56 am
@Jack,
Personally, I think it works better with the piece of paper, but thanks! ;)
  +2
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 11:31 am

Bryan Neuman said:
Would you say James Ray is completely full of shit or just mostly? More charges please.
WINNER!! ::   +21
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Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
@Bryan Neuman,
Bryan, I can’t even imagine what you and the other families were going through when this senseless sentence was passed down — it’s hard enough for those of us who are somewhat distanced from the case in whatever ways. More charges are definately warranted, as well as more jail time and more payout to those affected. I think they should also start with taking away everything that dear brother Jon and dear mommy and daddy have and own — since most of it is all blood money anyway. And next, they should take dear brother Jon to court because he was in on the abuse in a lot of the workshops and events, and most especially, in Colleen Conaway’s death. I know, I know, wishful thinking. But I hope Jon and the parents rot in hell along with James, knowing the truth as they do. They obviously have no consciences or sense or right or wrong either. “All in the Family”
WINNER!! ::   +13
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Moxie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
@Bonnie,
Talk about an 8th grade education – Jon. Knot+Knot = Knot Knot. He is one of Jame’s partners in crime, but at the same time, he’s Jame’s biggest puppet. He will do anything for his big brother and he will never believe that “dear James” would lie or ever do anything wrong in life. He’s “called”, you know….says Jon & Mom. The old man just sits there, taking it all in and moving his shafty eyes side to side in Court. I’ve not heard him speak, but I bet he’s no Einstein.
When he gets out, they can all sell his Harmonic Wealth in the “Carnie” circuit. That’s what the family reminds me of—-a bunch of Carnies.
Happy Holidays Everyone :-) !!!
WINNER!! ::   +12
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mirele Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
@Moxie,
Not Carnies but “grifters.” That family is the living definition of “grifters.”
WINNER!! ::   +13
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# 16 December 2011 at 12:10 pm

Wyrd said:
It’s not hard for me to believe that James A. Ray could be non-smart and also be a suckcessful con man.
Smart people often seem to believe that their smartness confers on them all sorts of benefits over their only-average I.Q. fellow humans. The mainstream seems to reinforce this by speaking of those with high I.Q. in hushed, reverent tones (that is when their not too busy making fun of their geekiness).
All this weirdness surrounding smartness creates the illusion that being smart necessarily sets you apart from everyone else. As if, somehow, you’re like a superhero with a special blessing and curse or something.
But if we look at things from an evolutionary point of view for a minute, we can see that this whole thing is basically a load of dingo’s kidneys.
I mean–sure–being smart does mean you are more capable at certain things. A high I.Q. is a tremendous asset for various academic pursuits like scoring highly on tests without even studying. And maybe if some wizard drops you in a maze with a Minotaur you’ve got a greater chance of getting out of it alive due to your mad puzzle solving skillz.
But beyond that, when it comes to just living out your day-to-day life, a super high I.Q. has just about 0 advantage.
A high I.Q. doesn’t make you any more or less likely to be to be able to detect a con or to be good at conning. A high I.Q. would only imply that, whatever it was you were doing, you’d be more likely to analyze it heavily and write lots of long sentences about it. A high I.Q. might mean that if you consciously chose a goal of being good at one of those things (detecting cons or pulling cons), you might be able to achieve proficiency faster. Experience would still be the most important factor though.
I ramble therefore I am. Sorry about that. It’s just that the many false ideas that circulate in the public consciousness surrounding intelligence bug me sometimes.
@SD,
I haven’t read that book by Mr. Hitchens. Actually, I haven’t read anything of his. But I’ve heard him speak a few times, and he seems kinda cool and way more credible that P.Z. Myers. I will have to check out that book sometime.
I didn’t know he had died until I searched based on the book link. All I have to say is what I always say at this point: I hate cancer. Cancer sucks.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
WINNER!! ::   +13
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SD Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@Wyrd ::
I read that a long time ago and it was great :: that asshole will be missed muchly by me.
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 12:31 pm

Syndicate H8r said:
Retrial on the publics dollar…hmmm..
Paul Bernado tried that here in Canada (rapist child murder). It didn’t work for him either :)
  +5
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 1:02 pm

Moxie said:
Ohhhh…..Just wanted to share some “Gossip” going around FB that possibly, Tom Kelly helped James file his “Indigent” status -and- may have asked to continue to be his Attorney, but at the State’s expense (and price they offer).
Kelly pled that a Defendant has a Constitutional right to choose his Counsel….this was during the Trial to cause a delay, which Darrow granted, remember? This was when Kelly’s heart condition appeared, and he needed 7 weeks off to heal….but in that time, Kelly admitted he was handling a 6-week case for someone else….but after that was over, BAM! The 7-week heart condition came back and Kelly needed more time off – Granted again by Judge No-Balls.
So….in the case of being Indigent, does James get the choice of Counsel again? Fuming mad people want to know !!!
Thank you, Salty :)
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
@Moxie,
I was wondering about that..Casey Anthony’s lawyer, Baez, pulled that and got away with it..He also declared her indigent and he still got to be her lawyer plus hiring lots of other lawyers to assist him..I am sure that is what Ray and Kelly are planiing, he still gets to be his lawyer and the State of AZ will have to pay for it!!
  +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
@Moxie ::
It wouldn’t be much of a surprise if it was Tom Kelly. It makes sense really … because it’s been a long case and if someone starts fresh on it they’ll have to bill the government a couple hundred hours just getting up to speed. Assuming Kelly has an appeals practice of course … cause lots of lawyers only do one or the other.
[Reply]

John B Reply:
December 28th, 2011 at 7:58 am
@Moxie, I am just so thrilled about this. My taxes went to convict him. Now I get to pay for his appeal, his new trial and his defense. I want to know where all his harmonic wealth went to.
  +4
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White Rabbit Reply:
December 28th, 2011 at 11:13 am
@John B,
Certainly not to his students who paid for events in advance and will never get reimbursed.
So much for moral integrity.
His belief was “my ass is far more important than your ass.” I wonder how his high and mighty ass is doing now.
Think how different this all would have played out if he really had an iota of concern about other people.
  +5
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 3:22 pm

Yakaru said:
From Jon Ray (Death Ray’s bro)’s face book page
“I implore those who may continue to have hate in their harts [sic], ill will, or ill feelings … the time has come for forgiveness and healing…” He posted that after Death Ray had lodged his appeal. There is just so much wrong with the Death Ray family and friends….
And of course he sends the families his prayers and says how upset poor James is at having killed his “friends”. He also says “James would love to receive any and all mail from his supporters and friends” and gives his mail address:
James A. Ray
ADC #267823
ASPC – Lewis Eagle Point
P.O. Box 3700
Buckeye, AZ 95326
*The whole thing was re-posted on Connie Joy’s face book page by Jeanne
http://www.facebook.com/TragedyInSedona
  +6
[Reply]

Moxxie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@Yakaru,
I’ve seen all the posts Jon has made, imploring forgiveness from people. I don’t know if I believe all of that schpeeeeeel he’s putting out. James didn’t give a damn about forgiveness *ever*, from what I was told. I know for sure that he treated a close friend of mine worse than Michael Vick treated his dogs. I was stunned at what he did to her…..and that was at a prior Sweatlodge which had problems afterward, just like Connie Joy writes about.
If James truly wants forgiveness, it will be hard to believe it’s genuine. I do not think he’s been thru some Ebenezer Scrooge type turnaround, seeing revelations of his bad side and now has decided to change. That’s not James.
And just a note here…..regarding looking at his face>>>there’s no Botox or Salon in Prison. Wait to see him in another 4 weeks, and he’ll look like and old Jed Clampett. I was amazed when I saw the change, when he got out on bail. He is all filled up with gooo…and I think it’s wearing off. Wait & see.
WINNER!! ::   +16
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SD Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
@Moxxie ::
It’s not that he wants forgiveness :: it’s that he wants us to be forgiving … cause that would really work out for them and all their dirty fucking lies.
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Glad I Was Broke Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
@SD,
Or rather forget. What a dick.
  +6
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Nicole Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
@Moxxie,
‘I know for sure that he treated a close friend of mine worse than Michael Vick treated his dogs. I was stunned at what he did to her..’
Can you elaborate on that?
  +1
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# 16 December 2011 at 3:55 pm

omikse said:
This is from the Ray Fan page on FB…posted on Dec. 12th…
The Official Fan Page of James Arthur Ray
“Love, Compassion, Forgiveness, Acceptance, Understanding… Hate, Malice, Spite, Blame, persecution… Take a moment to consider what is in your heart. Love is eternal, forgiveness is a gift to your own heart, compassion sustains your soul. Choose to take the higher road that few have the courage or resolve to do.
… Love always wins in the end…”
Notice how Jon doesn’t add his name to the message….I don’t know who is doing the posting and editing…..However, the following folks are under the impression that Ray can, and does continue to post from prison.
“Karen Herrold…Glad to see you back, missed you. Stay strong and know that you are loved by many. Not just people you know, but people around the whole world and that’s more then a lot of folks can say.”
“Paul Widman…James, Purification comes from heat. You are a better man everyday, because you are brave enough to embrace the fire. I love you and am excited to see what you learn next. Thanks for always sharing what’s important to all of us. Peace Brother”
“Debbie Mallow…Jail really is No big deal…I know someone who’s been there several times. You may touch many lives in there. Consider it a holiday to regroup your thoughts : ) Happy Holidays to You !”
“Deirdre Wingate Armour…Glad to see you back.”
It must be very crowded in the Land of Denial…Ray’s family live there, permanently it seems, Ray’s fans visit there often…as for Ray, hell, he’s the President of the Land of Denial.
WINNER!! ::   +10
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LaVaughn Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
@omikse, Wow.
“Paul Widman…James, Purification comes from heat. You are a better man everyday, because you are brave enough to embrace the fire. I love you and am excited to see what you learn next. Thanks for always sharing what’s important to all of us. Peace Brother”
Tone deaf or just really, really sick?
WINNER!! ::   +7
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omikse Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@LaVaughn,…I personally like the idea of Ray’s prison time as being a ” holiday to regroup” his less than “Edu. 4″ thoughts.
As for a vocation while he is on this ” holiday”,…really, I am at a loss as to what Ray could do. I am sure he will try for a good spin on Negligent Homicide, Convicted Felon, how that could ever be possible is out of my league. I am pretty sure he will package a self-help guide based on “What I Learned in Prison”…maybe a “Prison for Dummies”?..( after all, that will go hand in hand with his Edu.4 level)
WINNER!! ::   +8
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Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@omikse,
“maybe a “Prison for Dummies”?.. (after all, that will go hand in hand with his Edu.4 level)”
Hahaha!!! Right on!!!
  +6
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Bryan Neuman Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 7:27 pm
@omikse,
James Ray already tried to profit off of these deaths with his radio show (tastefully) called “Living in the Flow”. Unfortunately, it wouldn’t surprise me if he tries to profit off his time in prison as well. He already said he plans to “help” people in prison… even though he’s the one that desperately needs help in my opinion. Love the “Prison for Dummies” idea though, hehe.
WINNER!! ::   +10
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stoic Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 9:28 am
@omikse,
For me I am rather interested in DeathRasy’s current ‘embracing the fire’ of being inside for a spell.
Not that it will redeem any of his ingrained habits of con or lack of learning–it might just be instructive to him about how the lower levels of person who get caught in such a web deal with such situations.
Our options are always limited anyway due to the luck of the draw and cultural influences.
Can’t stop thinking about the shivs, really, having a similar background myself– now that would be the LOA at work for real, a sort of divine retribution for the masses.
Sorry to the tender-hearted if the above is unpalatable, not too big on forgiveness myself, although I desist from dishing it out myself, if at all possible.
  +5
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Moxxie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
@omikse,
Jon is doing all the posting on both pages.
  +4
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Babzilicious Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@omikse,
“Debbie Mallow…Jail really is No big deal…I know someone who’s been there several times. You may touch many lives in there. Consider it a holiday to regroup your thoughts : ) Happy Holidays to You !”
What … the fuck? Er, I mean, what … the fuck? I know someone who’s been there several times? Consider it a holiday to regroup your thoughts? Wow. Her brain is a Mallow. MarshMallow.
WINNER!! ::   +8
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omikse Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
@Babzilicious,…an insult to MarshMallows everywhere…I never did trust those Peeps!….
WINNER!! ::   +7
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SD Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
@omikse ::
… that’s puntastic!
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omikse Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
yup….that was me with the Peeps remark…(I forgot to put my name in the tiny space..oops.)
on the JAR page:
“Annalisa Li..Please convey my love to James, a brilliant mind, when I feel down I resort to Harmonic Wealth and his seminars online, it’s a tough time in his life, but please reassure him that we love him and that he will come out of this challenge renewed and inspired”
“renewed and inspired”, ” a brilliant mind”…SSDD is more like it. Old dog, new tricks…leopard and it’s spots…etc. Denial is rampant in Ray-land.
  +5
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Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
@omikse,
Someone should be saving all these names somewhere because most assuredly, a lot of them are going to come up dead, broke, or broken in the not too distant future — that’s if someone doesn’t do James in in the can beforehand.
  +5
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SD Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
@Bonnie ::
It doesn’t matter what happens to James Ray for people like that … if you looked at them each individually you’d find that each was deep inside … hooked by at least four other just as ruthless bastards.
Team effort.

Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
@SD
Hopefully, the rest of them aren’t cold blooded murderers like JAR. As long as they’re still alive they still have a chance to wake up.
  +3

Babzilicious Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
@omikse,
If any of these brain-dead, brainwashed automatons ever wake up and realize how much power they gave away to James Ray, one of them will do him in!! The good news is that people can change – Kristina Bivins did quite the about face …
WINNER!! ::   +8
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SD Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
@Babzilicious ::
It’s never too late to escape … until you’re dead … which is one possible result of not escaping.
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 7:36 pm
@Babzilicious,
Yes, people can change — and that’s a good thing. Too bad James is almost certainly not one of them.
  +5
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Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
@Bonnie,
Oh, I shouldn’t say that because that’s not true. He CAN change. He’s proved that. Because he just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
WINNER!! ::   +8

omikse Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 9:35 pm
@Babzilicious,…ya’ know, since this tragedy first made the news, I have been trying to understand why it happened. We all watched the trial, we all heard the testimony. We understood the ‘everything is tainted theory’. We heard Li talk about BUGS, we watched Truc Do sashay in her thongs, we heard Kelly demean and degrade witnesses who did not agree with him.
….and still I wondered how educated, professional, gifted, loving, intelligent people came to such a tragic ending of their lives.
….now that we have seen a bit more of Ray than they ever saw, I can kind of understand it better. Ray, with his level Edu.4 took much more than advantage of these people. He really beat them up emotionally, as well as physically. How could anyone do what Ray did, and package it as ‘self-help’?
….I believe he did not like his customers because they were educated, some with husbands or wives, children, homes and fulfilled lives. I think he had nothing but thinly veiled contempt. You simply do not make people sit in their own filth, you do not play a game where you are god, and have them ‘die’ for hours at a time. You do not have them shave their heads, while you take your pills for hair loss. Some say he envied the lives and the success of his followers. Envy, perhaps, contempt, for sure.
….think of the power trip Ray must have been on when he had these people doing whatever he told them to. He degraded and used them to feel superior, to make his little life appear so much bigger than it truly was.
….while people were in severe distress, in fact some were dying, he did nothing. Not an once of care or concern for those he called ‘friends’ while(fake)crying in front of judge Darrow.
….arrogance, ignorance, super ego, entitlement, smug superiority, envy and a huge dose of contempt. I believe Ray did not care about anyone, but Ray. I believe he still thrives on his contempt, I believe it’s the only emotion he really knows.
WINNER!! ::   +19
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Bonnie Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
@omikse,
Thumbs up to infinity! And that’s just a start! ;)
  +4

Babzilicious Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
@omikse,
I read this and about nodded my head off!! But I also thought, you could have been talking about me – I was so entranced by Ray, had all of his CDs, his audiobooks, watched his clips on YouTube – and was all set to go to one of his free events when a blessing (disguised as a tragedy) struck – on our way to Eugene, OR from NJ, our RV burned to the ground in SD. So there was no way I could go to Portland for the event, no way I could have paid for another event (and I know like I know like I know, had I been there after what I had experienced, I would have felt and caved to Ray’s tremendous sales tactics/pressure and put the cost of a seminar on a credit card). I was not yet at that “Be your own guru, baby!” place that I am now. I have also wondered what that process is like … that makes you so susceptible to a charlatan like Ray and so many others – pretty much everybody in “The Secret” – god! I ate that stuff up!! There was a time when I would have totally sat there for hours during a seminar, not wanting to get up and go to the bathroom for fear of incurring Ray’s/his “Dream Team’s” wrath or even worse, their disapproval. I could have been one of those people who actually THANKED Ray for his ill-treatment, his degradation – and mistook that for caring. I can’t explain it – that magnetic force between people like him and people like me. Or the way I used to be. Anyway, this went on way too long – thank you for sharing and for making me stop and think about where I’ve been and where I’m going …
WINNER!! ::   +14

omikse Reply:
December 18th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@Babzilicious…I understand about “that magnetic force between people “. It can, and most often is, very dangerous. There are almost always extremes when even the perception of power is involved. I say almost because there is a power that Ray has, if you give him yours. There is also a power that someone like the Dalai Lama has, and he takes no power from you. The difference between the two is staggering.
I am so very glad that you are safe, and that you ‘see’ clearer than you have in the past. Never surrender your power to anyone. No one should ever ask you to. What is ‘right’ is what is right for you, what speaks to your heart. I am not a Buddhist, but I understand the concept of,…if you ask 100 monks what is Truth, you will get 100 different answers. Your Truth is yours, you don’t need anyone’s approval, you don’t need anyone’s opinion.
I am so very glad your RV caught on fire…I’m so very glad that you are here.
  +6

stoic Reply:
December 19th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@omikse,
I’d disagree re the DL–he has power and then people voluntarily give him theirs as well.
I understand that, and having started ‘wi nowt,’ and fighting hard to find my own power, such as it is, I ain’t about to surrender it to no one.
  0

Jack Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:38 pm
@omikse, Hale Dwoskin has wisdom-words for JR-Fans & Supporters at 16″ to end here:

Maybe law-enforcement can see about taking up his advice.
  +2
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
@Jack, It meant:
“Maybe law-enforcement can see about forcing up his advice”.
  +1
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 8:09 am
@Jack,…pulling traditions from other cultures or religions is a smorgasbord at best. Pickles and ice cream may be a taste sensation if you are pregnant, but put on the same plate as a steady diet to build your life on sounds foolish, and dangerous. People are lazy, why let anyone ‘pick and choose’ for you?…why even pick and choose? Culture and Traditions are not a Chinese menu to order from, where you can choose 2 from column ‘A’ and 3 from column ‘C’…if it is suppose to be a deeply personal experience, why would you pay for someone else’s opinion? People are lazy, and left to ‘pick and choose’ they pick the easiest parts of other traditions, religions, and philosophies, and end up with hash. Paying for your very personal relationship with God sounds like an idea only the niave would buy. Some things have no price tag, they never have and they never will.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

omikse Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 8:18 am
@Jack…the above comment was mine…
  +2
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@omikse,

“if it is suppose to be a deeply personal experience, why would you pay for someone else’s opinion?”
It reminds me about what a friend said once about the self-help books:
“Why would I want to pay for somebody ELSE’s self-help book?”
  +2
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 9:32 am
Hale Dwoskin, of Sedona Method fame (or infamy) is another real piece of work. (I sometimes even get him confused with Bill Harris.) Dwoskin seems to be possessed of the typical New-Wage goo-roo ego, as well as a strong mercenary streak and a basic contempt for customers. From what I hear, anyway.
  +5
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 9:34 am
I meant to add, though it probably goes without saying, that Dwoskin is also a member of the Transformational Leadership Council, and, of course, a “teacher” in The Secret.
  +5
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@Cosmic Connie, I thought first you were making up the name, but it’s true about it:
http://www.transformationalleadershipcouncil.com/faq.html
“The Transformational Leadership Council was established in July of 2004 by Jack Canfield. We are a group of thought leaders, speakers, authors, coaches, trainers, researchers, consultants, and others who are leaders in the fields of personal and professional development. We meet twice a year to network, connect, and learn from each other in order to enhance our effectiveness and contribution in the world.”
I’ve added to my list of demands of things SD write about.
  +3
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
@Jack, Now, I checked and see this comment from you, too:
“Honesty and integrity were apparently not on the list of criteria for Rhonda Byrne when creating The Secret. Rather, it seemed that commercial success and visibility in the New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality were the main requirements. After all, a large chunk of the interviews for the DVD took place at a meeting of the Training Liars Club… I mean the Transformational Leadership Council (TLC)… where many of the leading blights of the industry were gathered in one place. Speaking of which, the TLC will convene in Tucson AZ from July 27-31.”
  +4

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 18th, 2011 at 9:28 am
@Jack, I’ve also written a few blog posts about the Transformational Leadership Council, including one dated Friday, August 13, 2010 and titled “Council or Cartel? You decide.” True to its name, the TLC prides itself on being an elite force of cultural and spiritual “leaders.”
As many may know, James Ray was a founding member of the TLC but they booted him out at some point after the fake-sweat-lodge story broke. As was the case with being picked for “The Secret,” honesty and integrity were apparently not on the list of criteria for TLC membership. Evidently, however, even the TLC couldn’t support a suspected killer, at least not one who’d been caught. Wouldn’t be good for PR. So Ray is history in that org. For now, anyway.
  +5

Clark Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
A friend of mine was (and probably still is) a big fan of the Sedona Method, so I got some exposure to Dwoskin.
It’s hard to put into words. As with most self-help stuff, a few percent of what’s being taught is actually correct (i.e. practicing to let go of anger and grief is superior to forcing yourself to be happy), but that’s obviously not new. The rest is just very, very weird. Here a few pointers:
- He starts with a joke that he apparently finds funny enough to break into laughter three times. One quickly understands why he didn’t choose an acting career instead.
- We’re being told some of the usual new-age stuff, letting go can make your cold go away, repair relationships, make you money, your intuition is always right, yadayada.
- At some point, a woman with severely low self-esteem breaks down emotionally. He stays calm, but seems somewhat…amused.
At this point I started to think that the whole seminar seems more like a show he puts on than an honest effort to teach something. Too obvious is the Kennedy-esque alternation of exercises and success stories. At some point, I was close to believing that his method actually worked, although I didn’t really feel any change. But the stories just seemed so great!
Well, since then I’ve switched to meditation, which I still believe is very powerful, and I don’t even have to pay someone to use it. And while we’re talking about paying: If this whole Sedona stuff is too complex to you, but you’re still trying to get rid of your money, you might be interested in “Happiness is Free” by Dwoskin, which can be had for roughly 11 bucks on Amazon. My inofficial sequel, “Happiness Is Free Is Not Free” will be published next year and can be preordered via clark@damnimouttanewageysoundingcitiesmethod.com
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Slowly Waking Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 11:56 pm
@Clark,
I’ve looked through the Sedona stuff too. Interesting that there’s Dwoskin, and then Lester Levenson and at least one other guy who teach variations of the “method.” I guess nobody registered the trademark fast enough after Levenson “transcended this material plane.”
There’s a PDF floating around in which Levenson talks about how he came up with the method. At one point he claims to have developed mutant psychic powers, that kind of thing.
Dwoskin’s laugh is strangely mesmerizing… at first. The whole method is like a whiplash hypnotic induction. You’re right that it’s a show. You show up, have an experience, get a buzz, and leave the same as you were. When I was a little kid I always hated revivals at church for the same reason: once a year, get worked up, nothing changes.
Meditation. Have you read/heard about “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism” by Chogyam Trungpa? It’s about how eventually any spiritual experience or practice can turn into an ego trip. Fittingly, its author, a Tibetan lama and meditation master, died a drunk after anointing his successor, an HIV-positive man who knowing infected one of his students who later died. Where angels fear…
  +6
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 18th, 2011 at 12:22 am
@Slowly Waking,
“At one point he claims to have developed mutant psychic powers, that kind of thing.”
It’s another piece of SD site that gives me help because I can find new ideas for my life-goals.
  +3

Clark Reply:
December 18th, 2011 at 8:14 am
@Slowly Waking,
At one point he claims to have developed mutant psychic powers, that kind of thing.
He seemed quite fond of miracles in his book. I’ve heard rumors about him telling people he’d just let go of his body weight and instantly drop a few pounds.
Meditation. Have you read/heard about “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism” by Chogyam Trungpa? It’s about how eventually any spiritual experience or practice can turn into an ego trip.
Haven’t read it, but if I got the premise right, I’d agree with that. I don’t really buy into life-changing moments anymore; I’ve had too many and if they changed lives, mine wasn’t among these.
I just use it to get out of my routine once in a while, not for some grand awakening or spiritual journey.
Regarding the latter, isn’t it strange that all of those great psychic seminars only leave people with great visions of their future and nobody gets poked in the third eye?
How about “Hi, I’m your spiritual guide and my name is something like DropInTheOcean because that’s what you believe native American names sound like after receiving all of your education from the discovery channel. As you feel in your gut, everyone has a purpose in life, and yours is to get run over by a bus so the driver discovers the brevity of life, returns to his family and becomes a great college teacher. Don’t like it? Well, you’re the one who begged me to talk to you, don’t get snappy now…what, you want to be president? O-kay. Yeah, sure, like the 62 guys who asked me that this week, you will become president of the US. Congrats. Oh hey, drum circle, gotta go!”
  +3

Hippo Reply:
December 18th, 2011 at 2:18 am
@Cosmic Connie,
Hale Dwoskin was featured on one of Penn & Teller’s “Bullshit!” episodes, I believe in the first season. The episode was called “Self-Helpless,” if I remember correctly.
They made him look like an idiot. They said he was a real-estate salesman with no actual training for what he’s doing. He was telling people to “just drop it,” regarding any limiting belief or painful thought. He would illustrate this by holding a pen in his fingers and then letting it drop to the ground.
Then of course they had a psychologist explain how foolish this type of simplistic approach is.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 18th, 2011 at 2:32 am
@Hippo, Quote from that episode from here:
http://www.tv.com/shows/penn-teller-bullshit/self-helpless-238638/
“Firewalk leader: For raising energy, we have a very interesting chant. It’s Native American…it doesn’t mean anything.
.
Penn: Nicely done. Just dismiss an entire language and culture. I guess all the windtalkers were just spouting gibberish.”
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
December 19th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
@Jack,
That was one of their best episodes. I hope the show comes back. I don’t always agree with them, but they have helped me with my critical thinking skills, and they’re hilarious to boot.
  +2

stoic Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 6:19 am
@Hippo,
It does make a difference, that funny bone–makes the medecine go down a treat.
  +1

Hippo Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 11:04 am
To Stoic:
You are so right. I remember watching one guy from a recent episode explaining some type of sexual enhancement technique he was promoting in great detail (it made no sense), and feeling disheartened and exasperated about all the scam artists in the world.
Then, Penn Jillette yelled “Shut the fuck up!” (in a voice-over, not to the guy’s face), and I busted up and felt much better.
  +1

stoic Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
@Hippo,
Aren’t they a double act those two, one called Pen and one called Gillette? Sort of like Stan and Ollie, Morecombe and Wise, one the mouth and one the brain etc, etc or am I mistaken on that one too?
  0

stoic Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@stoic,
Yep,wrong again. The font of all knowledge says that its Pen and Teller, two guys, one act.
  0

Anonymous Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
To Stoic:
Penn Jillette is one guy, and Teller is the other guy, who does not speak on camera. Penn does all the narration and Teller mainly does pantomime and sight gags.
Penn Jillette was on Dancing With The Stars a few seasons back, which is not relevant, but I thought I’d mention it.
  0

Lanna Reply:
December 21st, 2011 at 12:35 am
@Stoic,
There’s one act they do where Penn just sits with a sexy lady and Teller gets to talk. He disappears a bunny:
I saw it live at one of those few casinos not within Stevie’s empire. I think even Bonnie might enjoy watching it, as long as she keeps in mind it’s a lie constructed to entertain, and no bunnies or Debbies were disappeared or harmed in the process.
  0

Hippo Reply:
December 25th, 2011 at 11:20 am
@omikse,
You know, I’m re-reading the first paragraph, and it is cleverly worded. Is it possible that James tells Jon what to write? He’s saying, be brave enough to forgive me, because only the exceptionally awesome person will do so. The unwashed masses are the ones who hate me. If you don’t forgive me, you become the loser you always feared you’d be.
  +3
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
December 25th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@Hippo,
JAMES is the loser he always feared he would be. Amazing that intuition.
  +5
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 25th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
@Bonnie, Something about the comment made me find this Duff-Comment:
http://saltydroid.info/silencing-of-the-lambs/#comment-6956
Which then led to Bill-Harris Death-Ray affiliate-promo link:
https://www.centerpointe.com/free/ray108/ (gone now) which made me feel creepy after finding about from Cosmic Connie here that the anniversary of sweat-lodge deaths is 10/8…
AND says “Free Ray”
Good thing about believing in randomness or it would be a good cause for a freakoutisode.
  +3
[Reply]
# 16 December 2011 at 4:46 pm

MazeMan said:
This is just classic!!….
not only was he not qualified to lead that dangerous abomination of a sweat lodge … he wasn’t qualified to go on a field trip to the zoo without a permission slip from his mommy.
I have an idea. Since Oprah was so big on promoting JAR, and I don’t think she has yet to denounce him, why doesn’t she pay for his legal defense? Wouldn’t supporting a unicorn promoter some how cajole the universe into giving back to Oprah far more than the cost of his defense?
JAR would be so grateful, he’d personally coach Oprah for free on how to become even more wealthy than she already is. Who better to get wealth lessons from than someone who is broke AND went broke pushing harmonic wealth. After all, he is a goo-roo (mostly goo, very little, if any, roo).
MM
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

White Rabbit Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 10:03 am
@MazeMan,
What amazes me is that people never picked up on the fact that Oprah really didn’t go out promoting James. She had one show on The Secret which got a ton of response. Based on that response, she immediately had a follow-up show the following week. The only people available were James Ray and Michael Beckwith.
Knowing James, he probably acted like a jerk towards someone in Oprah’s office and she never had him back. Beckwith returned, not James. So James was riding the coattails of The Secret and got in the door in the group Secret shows, as he did on Larry King Live.
What boggles the mind is that The Today Show kept having him back no matter how boorish his behavior.
  +3
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 11:41 am
@White Rabbit, Beckwith and Ray may have been the only ones available for the follow-up O show, but apparently Oprah did consider several “Secret” stars in the beginning, for her first “Secret” show. I know of at least one who was giddy at having been contacted by “Oprah’s people!”
http://blog.mrfire.com/you-are-here/
Not long afterward he admitted that he hadn’t been chosen to be on Oprah after all, because there are only so many people she could have chosen. “I was among the 6 or 7 being considered but somebody had to sit in the wings,” he said, adding that he could always get on Oprah later that year when his Hokey’oponopono book came out. (He didn’t get on the show for that one either.)
http://blog.mrfire.com/defining-momentsguaranteed-for-all-here/
In the comments section on a post that has since been deleted from his blog, however, someone who claimed to have inside info said the reason he wasn’t chosen is that O’s people were put off by his questionable “doctorates.” I don’t know if that is true or not, but it doesn’t sound implausible.
Then there is this post, where it kinda sounds as if the reason JV wasn’t on Oprah was that he was having surgery when the show was taped:
http://blog.mrfire.com/oprah-reveals-the-secret-this-thursday/
And he says basically the same thing on this one, in which also mentions that his friends Jack Canfield and James Ray will be on O in his stead.
http://blog.mrfire.com/prank-the-monkey/
So many of the New-Wage gurus were riding and continue to ride on the coattails of The Secret. Undoubtedly that was *the* factor that prompted Ray to raise the prices on his already pricey events.
And in related news, it looks as if Ms. Rhonda is going to Byrne the publishing world up once again with yet another “book,” due out in 2012: “The Magic.” (I guess I need to drag out my Gollum graphics again.) But if her second book, “The Power,” is any indication, I do think she’s learned her lessons about using living “teachers.” They’re too risky, and she doesn’t need ‘em anymore anyway.
  +6
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
Do you happen to know if Rhonda’s ‘Power’ book had anything like a similar impact to the first?
How big is the market for this rubbish still, I’m really asking.
Is it on the wane? Or is that just until JAR gets out of pokey with his own Prison Memoir follow-up.
  +3
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@stoic,
How big is the US market really, as it didn’t have such impact here, although stuff usually crosses the pond eventually.
(We have our own indigenous crackpots, cranks and scammers of course, tailored to Brit tastes)
  +3
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@stoic,
Rhonda is from the UK — Australia.
  +1

Jack Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
@stoic, I tried to find someway to work on the math challenge, but only got to this so far as a quick-dirty:

but lots-of problems as far as “impact” vs. “people looking about”.
  +2

stoic Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@Jack,
Thanks Jack. I don’t have a clue how you found the figures but based on users the impact is roughly the same it seems.
Not a lot of cultural difference then for Rhonda and her paypal.
I was sure she was an Aussie, Bonnie, they are getting increasingly prickly about the old ties to empire, as they should be, IMO.
Whatever, she started something with her infomercial–and JAR and his actions were just one of the many ghastly results.
  +1

Lanna Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 7:41 pm
@stoic,
Do you mean “The Secret” rubbish or something broader? Here it says 2,242,915 copies of “The Secret” DVD were sold in the U.S., most in 2007. Using 2008 census data and assuming one DVD per buyer, that’s 0.9% of the U.S. adult population. However, 79.8% of the adult U.S. population – 182,198,000 people as of 2008 – self-identify as religious.
  +1

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
@stoic, et al. — Sorry, didn’t mean to drop out of the conversation; I just got back from hours of chores and shopping. While I’m sure The Power hasn’t sold as many copies as The Secret, it apparently did well enough for the publisher to make yet another investment in Rhonda.
The Power was published in August of 2010, and still seems to be doing pretty well, according to the stats on the Amazon page…
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Power-Rhonda-Byrne/dp/1439181780
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #1,239 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
#2 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > New Age > New Thought
#4 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Occult
#22 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Spirituality > Personal Transformation
Considering the huge number of books being published, I suppose those are respectable rankings. And so far there aren’t dozens of copies going for pennies on the dollar on Amazon Marketplace.
As far as I know Rhonda is from Oz. She sure talks like an Aussie. I have it on fairly good authority that if she hadn’t been Australian, David Schirmer (pardon the mention) never would have been chosen for The Secret.
  +4

Jack Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
@stoic, Re: figures:
1. Google Adplanner for traffic stats
2. List of Internet Users by Country…
“as compiled by the International Telecommunication Union. Internet users are persons using the Internet from any device (including mobile phones) in the last 12 months. Estimates are derived from either household surveys or from Internet subscription data.”
3. Then I found and poked about into UK-data thru Internet Access Quarterly with-breakdowns & U.S.-data thru Internet Publishing and Broadcasting and Internet Usage because I started getting scared that people would tell me about all my bad research-problems, but the miracle-solution came right thru me when after I got into the secret-email-list I found out about that:
“First of all, I want you to know that these insights are simply offered as a sharing from my heart to you, and the most important thing is that you choose for yourself.”
…which is the I-can-choose idea I didn’t have to pay to Tim Brownson to get…and I choose that nobody has rights to challenge me on facts no matter how I collect-gather them or maybe even make them up, plus I gave Luther my magic-fact-mirror for keeping which is the only way to see.what all the facts are really.
  +2

Jack Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
@stoic, 3 for UK should be:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171766_242415.pdf
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/rdit2/internet-access—households-and-individuals/2011/stb-internet-access-2011.html
  +2

stoic Reply:
December 19th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Thanks for the food for thought, everybody. I am beginning to see the value of deep digging–except that statistics tend to get massaged by the end user and are not really indicative of anything other than a numbers system.
People don’t think like that at all, and many may have bought the lastest whizz bang success thingy out of curiosity at the current fad of moment–whatever is impacting the zeitgeist–and found it drivel that is not personally applicable.
Research on groups is notorious for illuminating the process of selection and not what is important to that group–or to a wider selection.
Having said all that, I sure could use one of them magic mirrors of Jacks that he gave to Luther.
Or maybe not, it probably tows a back-end and a shedload of spam–with the dayjob I couldn’t keep up.
I’m takinjg it slow, the dementia dictates that, but I hope to get there (where, dolt?) in the end.
You’re a smart chap Jack, magic mirrors as well! I’m very impressed.
  +1
# 16 December 2011 at 9:57 pm

Enoch_Root said:
Pretty In Pink… Isn’t He.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
December 17th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
@Enoch_Root,
Suits him down to the ground. He should keep it on for a whole lot longer, IMO.
  +6
[Reply]
# 17 December 2011 at 7:36 am

omikse said:
On Ray’s business web page, where there is a ‘sale’ on his books and videos, it say’s this about his education..”..background in behavioral sciences”…( is that some sort of code for a degree ‘manipulation’??)…no actual school/university is mentioned. The information goes on to say…Ray ” has studied and …been exposed to a wide diversity of teachings and teachers– from traditional college and the schools of the corporate world…”….again, no actual school/university names were mentioned, no credits, no degrees….it must have been the University of Wish-Fulfillment…or as I believe it may be commonly known as “F.U.” ( Fulfillment University)
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 11:07 am
@omikse,
Well, don’t forget he got some type of degree from that shaman in Peru–who turned out to be a tour guide.
  +3
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@Hippo,
Maybe it was a typo, and really meant ‘a degree OF manipulation’.
As in a measure, maybe a little maybe a lot–he wasn’t too sure about it himself as he was experimenting with unknown dark shamanic forces on his unknowing paying customers.
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
@stoic and Omikse:
If you have a chance to read Connie Joy’s book, the story is in there. Ray told his tour participants that he studied with this prominent shaman in Peru. The guy did turn up while the group was in Peru, but Connie said that Ray acted strange around him and didn’t want people to speak to him.
As I said earlier, it turns out that the man is a tour guide, not a shaman, and he had no idea about what James Ray was telling people!
  +3
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Hippo,…so, in reality Ray could be a wacked-out tour guide, in which case I would never get on the tour bus…still, it is creepy business about “behavioral sciences”…I guess his grade would be a ‘fail’. I wonder if the ‘shaman’ offers a remedial course? Maybe a correspondence course can be obtained while Ray studies in Arizona…he needs to improve his “Edu. 4″ level…….
  +5
[Reply]

omikse Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
@, I keep forgeting to place my name…
  +3
[Reply]

stoic Reply:
December 21st, 2011 at 4:36 am
@Omikse,
Even the whacked-out tour guide knew a bit more than DeathRay ever did, he didn’t actually kill his tourists, however whacked-out he may have been.
I’m feeling a bit whacked out myself, speaking of whacking, and might take a swift cruise myself to recuperate. Maybe I’ll find a tour guide of my own who can do some remedial work on my problems.
Know of good whacked-out shamen who do a bit of tour-guiding on the side? Maybe I’ll read Connie Joy’s book and follow up on Ray’s recommendation.
  +2
[Reply]

omikse Reply:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:01 am
@stoic,…I have no idea if the ‘shaman’ was wacked out or not…but Ray would make a ‘wacked-out tour guide’, at least in my book. No college credits for Ray was what I was trying to put forth…no verasity in his pretend scholastic career…while there is nothing wrong in alternative types of education, including life experience, Ray’s business web site alludes to some type of education in “behavioral sciences”. “..traditional college” I understand the hint of possible studies here, but what is ment by the phrase “schools of the corporate world…” Does that mean that Ray can put the little swirly on the top of a Dairy Queen cone? Does it mean that Ray knows how to build the perfect Big Mac?.Did Ray learn the correct phrase and intonenation “Do you want fries with that?” I intend no offense to these workers, they don’t pretend to be something they are not.
Sometimes I view Ray as Martha Stewart type of sales person. From bed sheets to cookie sheets, your taste must be of her approved “line” of home fashion. I live in my house, not Martha. Martha doesn’t know me,I know what I like. Why should I allow Ms. Martha to tell me what I like? She wants you to buy her products so you will feel acceptable to yourself. Ray is like Martha in selling/pushing his brand of twisted spirituality, but there are deadly side effects.
  +3
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
December 24th, 2011 at 11:09 am
@omikse,
At least Martha never killed anybody with her bed sheets, that I know of.
  +3

omikse Reply:
December 24th, 2011 at 11:15 am
@Hippo…Ho-Ho-Ho. “It’s a good thing”!
  +1
# 20 December 2011 at 9:23 am

White Rabbit said:
I wonder if James is continuing his spiritual practices by doing cold showers in prison.
  +3
[Reply]
# 25 December 2011 at 8:04 am

Anonymous said:
JAR’s legal fees, lawsuits & loans
https://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docsyav/Cases/State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20James%20Arthur%20Ray/12-26-2011%20NOTICE-FILING%20STATEMENT.pdf
  +3
[Reply]

SD Reply:
December 29th, 2011 at 5:52 am
@Anonymous ::
Who filled out that form … an eighth grader?
boom!
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 29th, 2011 at 11:05 am
@SD: Just the other day I saw this comment on the vid you uploaded to YouTube last June (“James Arthur Ray’s Harmonic Non-Acquittal”). It may have been mentioned on this blog before, and if so, I apologize. I’m usually quite optimistic about “the younger generation,” but this comment, posted a couple of months ago, has me shaking my head:
“peoples [sic] arrogance is ridiculous, i’m 16 years old and even i know there’s whole lot of the story not told from the media.. u here [sic] ppl die and we all try to point fingers, read the first 3 chapters of harmonic wealth by james arthur ray.. this guy is not a murderer nor a scam, he’s a john lennon, ghandi [sic], kevin trudeau… i don’t know what it is with the world and hating on ppl who are peaceful and trying to improve the world…”
Or perhaps this young person was being ironic?
###
  +2
[Reply]

Hippo Reply:
December 29th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
Nah, probably not smart enough to be ironic. And the spelling is for shit.
I would not worry too much about a person at this age. None of my kids was very savvy at 16. I encouraged my oldest daughter to take a semester of Logic and to watch “Religulous” when she was about 19, and it helped her immensely. As she has continued on through college, her critical thinking skills are getting sharp. At 22, she is well on her way to being awesome.
But at 16, she could have written that post you quoted.
  +3
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
December 29th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
LOL, JAR is totes a Kevin Trudeau! He’s always telling those vortex heartpath foxes about the chi ‘They’ Don’t Want You to Know About.
  +2
[Reply]

Yakaru Reply:
December 29th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
Shocking to think that someone can become that stupid in just 16 years.
@Anon, SD,
There are some claims on that form which I don’t understand. Is he really saying that he STILL owes his attorneys 5.6 million? Is he really saying he owes 5 million in payments for civil suits? I thought at least some part of that was paid by insurance. Did I miss something?
And for an 8th grader he’s either extremely messy or he kept needing to alter things as he realized he hadn’t lied enough.
  +6
[Reply]

Solar Flare Reply:
January 11th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
@Yakaru, They’re sticking with his story. There’s a hearing next week, so we’ll see what happens: https://​apps.supremecourt.az.gov/​docsyav/Cases/​State%20of%20Arizona%20vs%20Jam​es%20Arthur%20Ray/01-0
  0
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
December 29th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
@Cosmic Connie, did I just read ghandi and kevin trudeau put in same/similar classification? Probably he skipped over his 7th birthday and needs to go back to do it.
  +3
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
December 30th, 2011 at 11:01 am
@Hippo, You’re probably right about the lack of irony in that 16-year-old’s statement. I suppose youthfulness can be used as an excuse in this case.
@Yakaru: Because of said youthfulness, I’ll cut the commenter a little slack and withhold judgment about intelligence or lack thereof — though the comment itself was certainly stoopid.
@Lanna and @Jack: It is indeed appropriate to mention True-dough and Death Ray in the same sentence. In fact, that’s how I came across the comment on Salty’s vid; I Googled “Kevin Trudeau defends James Ray.” I wanted to see if there was anything new on that front. While the search result wasn’t relevant to that particular subject, it did lead me to the 16-year-old’s comment.
But yeah, @Jack, Gandhi doesn’t belong in the same sentence with KT and JAR, nor does John Lennon, for that matter.
  +3
[Reply]
# 29 December 2011 at 12:46 am

Solar Flare said:
Issues arise over Ray’s claim of indigency
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=101765
  +3
[Reply]

Just Jake Reply:
January 9th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
@Solar Flare,
I’m sure his lawyers aren’t really working for free, because leeches don’t suck if there’s no blood. Either he passed them a bunch of cash before hiding his assets, or one of JAR’s buddies is paying them on the side.
  +3
[Reply]

Solar Flare Reply:
January 10th, 2012 at 12:54 am
@Just Jake, I agree!! I can’t imagine them working for free either… I wonder how they could find out what happened to JAR’s vehicles, furniture, etc.?? Seems like there has to be some record of it somewhere? And he’s still selling products online – where is that money going?
  0
[Reply]
# 9 January 2012 at 1:40 am
» Transformational Leadership Council … of Death said:
[...] … says the Transformational Leadership Council on their website about the Transformational Leadership Council. Sure it’s a shit sentence to use as a tagline :: but understand that many of the world’s most transformational leaders were barely able to complete high school … or totally weren’t able to after getting hung up on the complexities of the 8th grade. [...]
  0
# 10 January 2012 at 1:59 pm

Yakaru said:
The state lists a few (like about 16) questions for Death Ray about his finances:
http://bit.ly/wfFoUy
  +4
[Reply]

Solar Flare Reply:
January 17th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
@Yakaru, Go SHEILA!!
  +1
[Reply]
# 17 January 2012 at 2:50 pm

Yakaru said:
Harmonic disciplinary infraction:
Violation Date Infraction Verdict Date Verdict
02/24/2012 DISRUPT COUNT OR OUT 02/27/2012 GUILTY-MIN.VIOL
http://www.azcorrections.gov/inmate_datasearch/results_Minh.aspx?InmateNumber=267823&LastName=RAY&FNMI=J&SearchType=SearchInet
Apparently disrupting the count means disrupting the role call.
“Inmate 267823!….267823!!!!”
“I….AM….GOD”
(via @Handfullofrice on twitter)
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
March 7th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
@Yakaru ::
Ha ha ha!
And he appealed it!
God is never wrong … fuck counting.
[Reply]

Unicorn Army Reply:
March 8th, 2012 at 11:02 pm
@SD, maybe he should have gone for the basic arithmetic instead of “functional literacy.”
  +2
[Reply]
# 7 March 2012 at 4:12 pm

Tim said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Does most everyone celebrate and feel a bit kind during the christmas season? But Christ, it is said, was killed. How many people have died by not utilizing there own mind. Those lives lost, while unfortunate, need to also be held responsible for themselves. Mr. Ray did not make them drink the kool aid, nor did he show the concern one who is enlightened should have. After reading all the stories I’m left wondering if some of the furvor surrounding him is not due to the same no-can-do depressive attitudes spoken about by so many others in that business as well as therepists behind closed doors. How many people actually get so depressed that the commit suicide, after professional therapy?
How many lives have been lost by a religon warring against another? We are all in need of peace, we all seek it. Some have to kill for it(terrorists).
LOSER!! ::   -4
[Reply]
# 12 March 2012 at 4:21 pm

I wantz 2B rich said:
Tim, the people who attended Death Ray’s seminars, in a nutshell, were brainwashed. They were abused. They were led to believe they would experience a breakthrough that would help them live life to its fullest.
This has nothing to do with religion. What these people sell – and this is what’s being taught to the biz-op crowd – is the outcome. Transformation.
These frauds take advantage of every opportunity to get a photo with someone famous to give an appearance of credibility. They pay a public relations agency a hefty fee to be classified as an expert and get pitched to tv, radio, and the press.
It’s pretty clear that some elements of the media aren’t practicing due diligence to verify that these gurus aren’t scam artists.
I don’t know if Death Ray is covered on Rick Ross’ website, but I’d suggest you check it out – just do a search on him, the site will come up.
I know Byron Katie and T Harv Eker are on Ross’ site, and Eker does some kind of financial warrior bullshit seminar. Marathon session, costs lots of money, made me wonder if Death Ray took a page from Eker and figured he could hold warrior bullshit seminars for lots of money.
Death Ray certainly didn’t do anything therapeutic, and he certainly didn’t do anything to lift anyone’s self-esteem. He destroyed people, both physically and mentally.
  +4
[Reply]
# 12 March 2012 at 5:01 pm

insightguy said:
I worked in the motivational speaking industry for twenty years. James Ray is a sociopath who inadvertently killed people because of the depth of his belief … in himself.
Over many years, he has carefully planned events designed to make himself money while promising more money to the people who pay him. In the end his beliefs actually killed people as he believed everything was under (his and the Universe’s control) while people died around him. He simply failed to respond to the basic facts of their breath stopping … because he believed it wasn’t so.
  -1
[Reply]
# 20 April 2012 at 11:40 pm

I wantz 2B rich said:
Death Ray killed people because of his arrogance, his greed, his indifference, and his g-damned inflated ego. To say he inadvertently killed people is giving this guy grace he doesn’t deserve.
  +2
[Reply]
# 21 April 2012 at 2:28 pm

Tim said:
Sorry for my abscence,
In reading the comments it occurs to me that we humans really have a need to identify with a person to have the message become our truth.
People did not really become inspired by Dr Kings’ speech that hot day in front of the Lincoln memeorial because of him, because he was black; it was his words, his message, his dream that he was sharing/selling. Whether or not we believe is our perogative. If one is judges the authors message by the punctuation, or buy the drug habits, or drinking of the author, then the message in the words is lost.
I’m not saying that the cult status this guy built in his wake was right, what I’m saying is that we as humans need to always take a step back and weigh the words.
If we are Jews are we in favor of killing the innocent? The same if we call ourselves Christians or Muslims. We may call or belive ourselves to be any one of these, yet, do we really belive in that doctrine?
The doctrine that this James Ray was spreading finally went past the boudries of reason, yes, but we cannot dismiss our part in his enablement.
I have listened to him, watched him, read his material and taken from it the points that fit for my life. I may be in the remote group which recognizes mob theory and applies common sense to these types of gatherings. But, I do spend more time weighing, pondering, the messages from all those who have tried to teach, if it be soley for profit or not, to see how that message may impact humanity or even myself.
  0
[Reply]
# 22 April 2012 at 12:07 pm

SD (author) said:
Gosh …
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/06/us/mysterious-yoga-retreat-ends-in-a-grisly-death.html
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
June 6th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
@SD, Appalling. It just never ends, does it?
  +3
[Reply]

Melkor Reply:
June 6th, 2012 at 6:55 pm
@Cosmic Connie, Of course not. Too much money in it for the perpetrators.
Have you been following the usual suspects on “Awakening to Abundance” and “new Transformation Strategies” teleseminar series? Mostly New Wage gurus, but a scattering of true believers among them – Daniel Gutierrez presenting the one version of the lineup sounds like a true cynic out for everything he can fleece the flock for, poor Debra Poneman presenting the other collection of the same phonies sound like a victim-turned-unwitting-patsy which should make me more suspicious given how much these guys and gals rely on faking sincerity to engender sympathy…
  0
[Reply]

Anna Reply:
June 6th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
@SD, so many creepy parallels between that and Sedona. That part of Arizona is really extreme in terms of terrain and weather. Makes Yavapai County look like paradise.
  0
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
June 7th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
@SD,
From the article…
Michael Roach, had previously run a diamond business worth tens of millions of dollars and was now promoting Buddhist principles as a path to financial prosperity
… “Buddhist principles” … “as a path to financial prosperity” …
A religious expert I am not, but I know a little about Buddhism. Buddhism’s never, ever been taught or thought of as a path to friggin’ financial prosperity. In fact, there’s some versions where you can’t become Buddhist unless you renounce all worldly possessions!
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +1
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
June 8th, 2012 at 6:55 am
@Wyrd, Oh, you are just so ignorant and small-minded. Don’t you know that both Buddha — and Jesus, for that matter — want all of us to be zillionaires? I know that is right because The Buddha of the Internet has been preaching this very thing for years. http://tinyurl.com/bu3afd
Oh, you want more proof than that official portrait? Here ’tis:
http://blog.mrfire.com/buddhas-money-making-secret/
Your prosperity consciousness is seriously undeveloped, Wyrd. You need to buy some courses to awaken yourself.
But seriously: This… all of this… is why “haters” blog.
  +1
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
June 8th, 2012 at 7:36 am
Addendum to above comment: I realize that in the post to which I linked, Mr. Fire modestly wrote, “I’m no Buddha.” But if you Google the matter you will see many results in which Mr. Fire is referred to as the Buddha of the Internet, due to his amazing spiritual and marketing acumen. F’rinstance:
http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Vitale/e/B000APU5C8
  0
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
June 8th, 2012 at 9:24 am
@Cosmic Connie,
I am only an egg.
Thank you for enlightening me, Connie. :-)
I didn’t really know Joe Vitale (although I see his name come up here on saltydroid, of course–most of the articles on him were from. Now I know more than I could ever want to know about him and I only had to click one link. (And
I was well aware Jesus had been co-opted by selfish, wanna be rich types (e.g. Supply Side Jesus [youtube.com]), and I know vaguely about new age-y stuff where they get your money and you get… I dunno, not much.
In my naivety and general non-spiritual-ness, I just hadn’t seen the “money making” meme with the Buddha yet.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  0
[Reply]

Wyrd Reply:
June 8th, 2012 at 9:33 am
@Wyrd,
Ok, that post clearly needed better editing. Sorry about that.
(although I see his name come up here on saltydroid, of course–most of the articles on him were from.
Meant to write
“(although I see his name come up here on saltydroid, of course–most of the articles on him were from before I started
reading this site).”
(And
Mentally delete that part.
——–
I might start previewing comments in a web browser. (Now will the form handle embedded <br>’s by removing them or will I wind up with excess line breaks instead?)
  0
[Reply]
# 6 June 2012 at 4:18 pm

Tim said:
I think it is time to start a ‘new’ new-age group. One that is based on genuine support and help of each other. The sacred female and male are revered and treated as equals. No limits as to communication with the outside world, come and go as one pleases, giving money or time or labor is completely voluntairy. Believe in each other, the abilities of each other, teach, share, communicate with each other. No one person has the ability to enslave or limit another.
Help one another, if that be painting, cleaning, feeding… showing kindness & support.
If one is to accept the one teaching that states we are all created in Gods image, then one could surmise that we all carry the abilitiy for unlimited forgiveness, love, understanding, kindness, gentilness, joy, peace… Lets celebrate life, the possibilities, the tragedies & protect life. Celebrate others beliefs, as long as those beliefs do not violate others.
I very much apprecieate all of you here on this site. I’m glad to hear all the opinions and facts concerning the many frauds looking for personal gain at others expense.
  +1
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
June 20th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
@Tim, could not have said it better myself. At some point, if you are promoting yourself as someone who wants to help people, society, the world, but underneath you;re just in it for the money, I think eventually the whole thing will just backfire…..keep smiling!
L. :)
  0
[Reply]

Laurie Reply:
June 20th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
@Tim, could not have said it better myself. At some point, if you are promoting yourself as someone who wants to help people, society, the world, but underneath you;re just in it for the money, I think eventually the whole thing will just backfire…..keep smiling!
L. :)
  0
[Reply]

fried egg Reply:
June 21st, 2012 at 5:18 am
@Tim,
Why would you need to start a new, new age group–ain’t all those good things you propose doing in your new, new age group just the old-fashioned values of good neighbourliness?
As in ‘do unto others……’ yada, yada, yada–the sentiment that has kept the human race going and viable now for millennia?
For my money that sentiment, put into practice, would keep us going for a few more millennia–’practice’ being the operative word, as in ‘I practice it myself’, not busybody other people into a new, new age group to teach them about this age-old saw that no-one over the age of 7 and with a single working brain cell needs to be taught.
  +2
[Reply]
# 7 June 2012 at 8:04 am

Yakaru said:
Sheila Polk wins an award: for having “worked tirelessly to advance the principles of criminal justice by representing the public’s interest with integrity, fairness, tenacity, creativity, brilliance, and above all, professionalism.”
She certainly did a brilliant job of putting Death Ray behind bars.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=107810
  +2
[Reply]
# 24 June 2012 at 3:21 pm

Yakaru said:
Death Ray appeals. Another 98 page document. It’s probably a page for each mistrial motion that Li made.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=108843
  0
[Reply]
# 20 July 2012 at 4:19 pm

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