168 Comments »

Jaime said:
Bloggers who blog about blogging {and you can too} are insufferable.
The anorexic social media queen Laura Roeder? I’d never heard of her before this post… but that video (and her wonderful About page) was more than enough to convince me to pay $4997 for a “1-on-1 session”.
Next you’ll need to convince me that James Chartrand really is a girl so I feel comfortable purchasing Damn Fine Words for only $1600.
How many clicks, page views, and sales of tripe will it take for me to dig myself out of the hole?
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
April 19th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
isn’t this a blog about people that blog about blogging? Blogging about blogging about blogging.. ?
  0
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Wyrd Reply:
April 19th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
@,
It would be more technically correct to characterize this blog as a place where people voice their simmering frustration with IM-MMO scammers and their victims.
Bloggers who blog about blogging is only an overlapping set of concerns–and not a sub-set either.
Bloggers who blog about blogging is like writers who write about writing. It happens a lot.
The problem is when the bloggers are actually blogging about how cool some other blogger is and that other blogger is, in fact, a Grade-A quality scammer.
–
Furry cows moo and decompress.
  +2
[Reply]

jake Reply:
April 19th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
isn’t this a blog about people that blog about blogging? Blogging about blogging about blogging.. ?
  0
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Lanna Reply:
April 19th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
@jake,
I would characterize this as a community – led by a fearsome fake robot – that communicates about people who sell the highly addictive unicorn feeling of being on the verge of personal transformation (financial and/or spiritual).
Their advertising is fraudulent because it says they will deliver personal transformation to you, but they only actually deliver the idea that your personal transformation is imminent. The high point for the addict is the time between paying for and receiving the e-book/course/one-on-one. Once the product is delivered and turns out to not deliver on the transformation promise (“overpriced garbage” comes to mind), the addict is eager to regain that unicorn high, and the sellers are happy to accommodate that desire, with more products from themselves and their co-conspirators.
As @Wyrd says, bloggers who blog about blogging are a separate but overlapping circle on this Venn diagram. Some bloggers blog about blogging using traditional, non-scammy business practices, like blogging about blogging to demonstrate their expertise to potential blogging clients, or offering books/courses that promise – and here’s the key difference – to teach you about blogging.
Other bloggers blog about blogging to convince you that you can blog, too, and blogging is the key to your personal financial transformation. For instance, “Blogging Your Way to a Six-Figure Income” pretty clearly promises you financial transformation. James Chartrand’s sales page says, “This course will change your life.” Personal transformation. Those are the kind of bloggers about blogging that are covered here.
(Sometimes their day-to-day posts look like they fall into the non-scammy category, but you have to look at their sales pages.)
  +2
[Reply]

jake Reply:
April 19th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
@Lanna, I see, that is a valid point.
My next question then has to be:
What if some Joe Blow unicorn worshiper also happens to be very skilled at something unique, like building certain things, so he reads the “blogging your way to six figures” book and is taught at least one thing that happens to bridge the gap between teaching a few people in his home town, to teaching thousands of people everywhere?
If somebody asked him how he figured out how to put content on a website, he might recommend the book to them not realizing that it might make an “addict” out of this person.
Is Joe Blow now an evil-doer?
Thank you for your response.
  0
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
April 20th, 2012 at 12:57 am
@jake,
In your example, it’s not clear to me how Joe Blow is a unicorn worshiper. It sounds like he’s a guy with a legitimate business or hobby teaching people how to build certain things, and he happened to read a particular book.
Dictionary.com says an “evil-doer” is “a person who does evil  or wrong.” And “evil” has a few definitions, but the ones that stuck out for me are “evil quality, intention, or conduct” and “anything causing injury or harm.” I find it instructive that one definition considers “intention” while the other is “anything.”
On the latest post, the Droid asked, “Are you with me … or are you with me? Or wait … are you against me?” There are evil-fighters and evil-doers, and then there the vast majority of people who are unaware that these scams exist.
Under the “anything” definition, all the unaware people who bought the widely-available, Wiley-published “ProBlogger” book – now in its third edition – unknowingly became evil-doers by putting money in Darren Rowse’s pocket and giving him credibility and legitimacy, which, in Rowse’s case, he lends to his scammier associates. I reject that definition, but I will say that these book buyers are unwittingly “part of the problem.” As first world consumers, our decisions are constantly making us part of some problem, though, so we can’t beat ourselves up about it too much.
So, as far as buying the book, Joe’s not an evil-doer, but he is, probably unknowingly, part of the problem.
But you asked about recommending the book. I would consider whether Joe knows that the book’s author associates with scammers and the context of the recommendation.
If Joe is unaware and just mentions the book in a conversation or Q&A, there’s no bad intention there, so he’s not an evil-doer. If he knows about the author’s connections, to me it’s OK for him to honestly say this book helped him as long as he also says that he’s heard the author is involved with some bad people.
If Joe actually creates a blog post about this book – or a group of books – then, IMHO, he can’t claim ignorance anymore. He has a duty to his readers to check out what he’s promoting. And if he intentionally creates a blog post recommending the book – complete with affiliate link – then he is indeed an evil-doer.
  +2
[Reply]

jake Reply:
April 20th, 2012 at 8:38 am
@Lanna, so basically you’re saying if Darren were to avoid hanging with the “bad kids” it would bring more legitimacy to his book, regardless of it’s content? It is after all a book, not a $2,000 course or $5,000 private consultancy by some “social media girl” named Laura.
  0

It could happen to anyone Reply:
April 20th, 2012 at 8:42 am
@Lanna @Jake,
It took me a while to work this one out; it’s the difference between “Internet Marketing” and “marketing something through the Internet”; the latter is when someone with clearly valuable skills &/or products uses the Internet to sell these things, and is, of course, an entirely valid way of making money.
“Internet Marketing” is involves some shimmering ephemera. You’re not selling products or skills per se, you’re selling information. You become a magpie, stealing shiny bits of advice from here & there, re-jigging and repackaging it to avoid getting caught (and often inadvertently diluting the message of the original author, because your own understanding of the topic is incomplete).
If your IM products are being sold at “bookstore price” then this might be acceptable; what’s morally abhorrent is the elevation of pricing simply to increase the perceived value of the product. For this to work, the marketer then has to spend huge amounts of time convincing prospective customers of their expertise, often flying in the face of reality to do so.
My understanding is still evolving (I’m posting this in part to see where the weaknesses in my understanding lie), but my current rule of thumb is to ask “would that which is being sold function in the absence of the Internet?”, ie is the Internet simply being used as an improved distribution and advertising network for a product which is viable offline. If this is the case, then it might be OK. But if the proposed product is solely for, on and of the Internet, it’s likely to be a scam. Another (BIG) red flag is anything marketed mainly or exclusively to those without an established business.
That’s not to say ALL Internet-based businesses are a scam; a friend runs a nicely profitable business collating weather information from metereological sources and repackaging it in a more customer-friendly way, promoting himself through SEO and monetising using adverts. The thing is, he knows what’s behind his success. He’s managed to make this work because he was one of the first to do it, rather than because he had some special magic sauce (or rather, he did, but it was timely vision).
It would be completely wrong from him to launch his own “and you can too!” info product as the conditions which enabled his success just simply aren’t there.
  +5

Lanna Reply:
April 20th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
@Jake,
If Darren avoided hanging with the “bad kids,” it would restore more legitimacy to his book. See, Darren’s a special case. He had legitimacy to begin with, because he actually had some success with his photography blog. (It was before everyone was competing in the photography blog space; he had the “timely vision” to be first to market, like It could happen to anyone’s friend.) Then he used that legitimacy to get Wiley to publish a book, and Wiley lending their legitimacy to it helped sell it. The book sales increased Darren’s legitimacy. Then he started renting his legitimacy to people with no legitimacy of their own – people like “social media girl” Laura.
In your hypothetical situation, you said the book’s content was helpful to Joe Blow. I can’t argue with that – with Joe’s personal experience of the book’s utility. If we’re talking about the ProBlogger book in particular, and not just a hypothetical book, then I’ve actually read it and found the content not unhelpful and certainly not scammy. (I did think it was mis-titled.)
The focus around here is on damage control. If you haven’t listened to the Debbie audio, then you need to do that now. One of the big goals is to stop Debbies from being scammed out of half their annual incomes. Products at the $20 price point used to fly under the radar because, hey, it’s only $20. Let’s focus on the $2,000 courses and $5,000 private consultancies. But now there’s awareness that buying the $20 item puts you on the list to receive a high-pressure sales call for “coachsulting” that costs whatever your available credit is. (Experts say usually you also have to purchase a $200 item before you get the phone call, but, as the Debbie audio proves, not always.) The $20 products can’t fly under the radar anymore.
However, the ProBlogger book is a special case because you’d be buying it from Amazon or B&N, so – unless I’m overestimating booksellers’ privacy policies – Darren and his associates would never see your name and contact info. If Joe unknowingly recommended the book, the people who bought the book and read it would still have to take the extra step of going to the book’s website and signing up for the email list in order to be potentially harmed.
  +1

It could happen to anyone Reply:
April 22nd, 2012 at 5:08 am
@Lanna,
But do *all* purchases lead to a boiler room? It may be just because I’m in th UK, but I’ve bought small products from a number of “third tribe” types, and picked up the “listbait” freebies for even more, but have never had a boiler room call.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not underplaying the horror of what happens on these calls; I made myself sit through the Debbie audio, despite wanting to click away. But not everyone sells their leads.
By claiming this is what everyone does, are we in danger of harming the cause?
Is there scope for a number off contributing to a fund to buy these “entry” products, leaving different names, to see which led to the boiler rooms?
  0

Lanna Reply:
April 22nd, 2012 at 12:02 pm
@It could happen to anyone,
No, not every purchase will lead to a call. I alluded to what OldSchool’s said about this.
In your case, you probably didn’t get a call because you’re in the UK. OldSchool said (emphasis mine):
* If you profiled yourself by filling out any forms during your process before getting to your thank you page when you buy any MMO, they WILL be phoning you (sans those outside of the USA – most floors will filter them because credit and collections are a bitch outside the region).
However, we’ve heard from BranP that Stephen Pierce “raped Australia and Malaysia,” and homegrown Malaysian “Internet Mastermind” Patric Chan and Singaporean Roy Phay attended Stephen Pierce’s 2007 millionaire party. It’s not a U.S.-only scam. Unless we stop them, the D-teamers abroad will eventually start using sales calls.
Also, from what OldSchool said, if you sampled a bunch of freebies and small products but never bought a bigger product, you wouldn’t be a qualified lead:
Typical rollout:
* User buys a $7 product or opts into a freebie.
* User gets emailed until they unsub or upgrade to a no-brainer $47 – $97 where they get profiled.
* This is their bread/butter – repeat buyer lists filtered down twice, you’re going to buy a lot of shit according to them, they’ll help to make sure.
* Vendor sends buyer leads to sales floor and sets up webinars and seminars. Sales are made and vendor keeps 20-40%.
(I should’ve gone back and looked at OldSchool’s comment before replying to Jake, because I said $200 when I should’ve said $47 to $97.)
This is just a thought I’m throwing out there, but the Third Tribe brand is all about not being “obnoxious ‘gurus.’” They’d be diluting their brand if they let one of these boiler rooms call you after only a $47 purchase.
Anthony Morrison and Mark Victor Hansen have a different brand, though. Debbie “saw The Hansen Report – Anthony Morrison Edition infomercial on television and ordered the book.” According to the AnthonyMorrisonTV.com website, the book is $19.95 plus $9.95 S&H. Debbie made one $29.90 purchase and was called before the book even arrived.
I don’t know about not everyone selling their leads. I’m sure downline people aren’t organized enough to sell their leads, nor would boiler rooms want their unscrubbed, unqualified leads that are duplicates of leads from their uplines. Are there Syndicate elite who aren’t using boiler rooms? I don’t know.
Does it change anything if they’re not?
  +2

It could happen to anyone Reply:
April 22nd, 2012 at 1:53 pm
@Lanna,
Thanks for the reply – I’m relatively new to this, so I’m really just trying to understand. I guess my point was if the price remains relatively small – “bookstore” price, for convenience – then no real damage is done…UNLESS the IMer who sold the product then pimps out their list to an obliging boiler room. That’s when the tragedies happen. So I guess it does matter, a bit.
But then the issue’s made worse when you factor in affiliate promotions – the more stuff you buy, the higher the chance of a call from a boiler room. Even if the IMer you originally bought from doesn’t pimp their list, the people they’re affiliates for might.
I bought the Baker & Karol “only 72″ sale bundle; while I was happy enough with what I’d got for $97, I couldn’t help but feel I’d've been enraged if I’d paid the given price for each product. There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors employed, and nowhere more so than in pricing.
Thanks again for your response – as I say, my intention is not to challenge, but to understand.
Allan
  +3

Lanna Reply:
April 22nd, 2012 at 6:19 pm
@It could happen to anyone,
Salty has thrown out the C word now and again – cartel, and I’m beginning to view the IM world more and more as a cartel that takes advantage of unicorn addicts. Sure, there’s some independent suppliers and some buyers who try it once or twice or only use it occasionally, but mostly it’s a cartel that panders to addicts.
(When I say addicts, I mean people with a mental health disposition they didn’t choose but they can manage, which often lies dormant until a stressor triggers it. I’m not saying it judgmentally.)
If you’re a casual user who buys from an independent supplier who grows his own product, then there’s no real harm. However, even that independent supplier’s product could be the first taste that gets an addict hooked. In a comment that became a post, Slowly Waking said his first taste was skimming Tim Ferriss’s book at the library.
What if the product you buy is homegrown, but your supplier uses the proceeds to buy himself a different product from some cartel that’s killed more than 9,000 people since 2008? (Actual cartels, not the Syndicate in the link.) What if there’s a delay with his product or he figures out it’s a lot of work for low margins, and he starts selling you cartel-supplied product, allowing him to sit back and collect his affiliate commission?
Let’s say you knowingly buy from a cartel dealer, but you only buy one $7 product a year. Your little purchase is barely a drop in the bucket, right? Except I wantz 2B rich did the math and figured out that for the cartel member with 61 products selling for $7 apiece, one sale a day of each product adds up to over $150k a year.
These are just thoughts for going forward. Nobody beat yourself up about past purchases.
On the affiliate side, the closest model I can think of is STD transmittal in reverse. With real STDs, you have to size up the person and try to imagine the skeeviest person he or she has already been with and the skeeviest people that person’s been with, on down the chain. Then you decide whether you’re willing to take that chance. As an affiliate, when you choose to partner with someone, you need to imagine the skeeviest scammer he or she’s going to be with in the future, and the skeeviest scammer that person will be with, and so on. Do you want your little protégés to arrive at that person through your guidance?
That’s my take on it all, at least.
I hadn’t heard of Baker & Karol before. Do you know what programs you got? I’m curious what valued-at-$11,226 but-now-only-$29 programs they’ll package into a $97 bundle.
  +2
# 29 August 2011 at 5:06 am

Malcolm said:
It’s about time Darren Rowse got pulled over and shaken around a bit. Check out the way he brags about “the house the blogging built” when in reality his money came from him getting lucky with google way back when he started a photography blog. When that ran out of steam (because everyone decided to jump on the blogging bandwagon and traffic got diluted) he turned to flogging his six figure blogging ebook which is nothing but crap advice that can easily be found anywhere else for free on the millions of honest blogs about blogging that don’t try to pull money out of gullible people’s wallets.
Rowse even pimps for Ed Dale and Dan Raine and is good friends with both of them on twitter. Associating with the fat australian con man Ed Dale isn’t good for the reputation Darren so why do it? Oh yeah, I remember, you do it for the money you whoring little twat. What is it with these fucking australians? Jeez, you could write a whole blog about australian internet con men.
Laura Roeder? $4997 for a 1-on-1? What is she, an ultra high class hooker? Hell, at least that might be enjoyable!
WINNER!! ::   +16
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Kann Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@Malcolm,
DPS never ran out of steam.
  +1
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# 29 August 2011 at 5:56 am

_cartman_ said:
@Rodan….here’s a tip….when using a template, make sure to replace the “TITLE TEXT HERE” place holder before uploading your video…and you weren’t far left enough in the frame…I could still see you…
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4986/roeder.jpg
  +5
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Adam Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 7:42 am
@_cartman_, I think she was trying to be cool. Didn’t work though, did it?
  +5
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# 29 August 2011 at 7:16 am

Sue J said:
My favorite discourse on Damn Fine Words:
Sarie: Can you not make it more affordable for aspiring, third world country citizens who’s exchange rate is Php42 to a US$ and would like to achieve the financial independence she long to have? US$1600 is a whopping Php67,200.00 already.
James: Yeah, that world economy thing really can be a problem, I know…
There is a payment plan available, absolutely. You can pay half now and take a full month to pay the rest. That gives people a definite chance to budget with plenty of breathing room.
——
I’m envisioning the “breathing room” is equivalent to having your head securely tied within a plastic bag…
WINNER!! ::   +14
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# 29 August 2011 at 7:41 am

Captain Obvious (.|.) said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
What’s this? Losers who fail miserably at life and whine about others success?
LOSER!! ::   -10
[Reply]

Captain Obvious (.|.) Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:35 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Captain Obvious (.|.),
I want to thumbs down my comment because everyone is going to do it, following the sheeple mentality of the typical loser commentary of this “blog”.
Fuck you and have a very nice day, idiots.
LOSER!! ::   -13
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Sheila Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:42 am
@Captain Obvious (.|.), You’re adorable.
WINNER!! ::   +11
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Anonymous Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:42 am
@Captain Obvious (.|.),
This appears to be the typical loser commentary/knee-jerk reaction of someone who’s run across something that hits a little too close to home. What’s the matter, did SD forget about leaving a comment on your blog? :(
Speaking of sheeple mentality, which of the above “authors” products have you purchased, just out of curiosity?
WINNER!! ::   +13
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Adam Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:43 am
@Captain Obvious (.|.), Nope. It’s just a blog where con men like Darren Rowse and Brian Clark get discussed. Losers like you also pop in from time to time to defend the con men. Shill is the word I’m looking for…
WINNER!! ::   +14
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Captain Obvious (.|.) Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:49 am
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Adam,
Played the sheeple like Scrabble. Got two thumbs up (I know it’s temporary, but ..)
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH
So pathetic. Go work on your business and stop reading shit like this blog. Then again, if you read shit like this, you don’t have a business, I guess.
You wonder how you can’t make money online …
LOSER!! ::   -13
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Adam Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:53 am
@Captain Obvious (.|.), keep digging shill, keep digging.
WINNER!! ::   +14
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Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
@Captain Obvious (.|.),
We don’t need to make any “dirty” money online. We can sleep at night, we have a roof over our heads, enough food to get us through the day, good friends who love us because we’re us and not because we’ve helped them bilk some poor soul out of their hard earned money and will stab us in the back if we so much as do one little thing that their paranoid little brains think was wrong because they were never real friends in the first place, and we know that the Universe really does provide — all of our true needs and desires, and not greedy consciousless selfish wants.
To Karma!
WINNER!! ::   +11
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Shit Storm Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@Captain Obvious (.|.),
I loved this quote from you:
‘So pathetic. Go work on your business and stop reading shit like this blog. Then again, if you read shit like this, you don’t have a business, I guess.
If you’re reading this site doesn’t that mean that you don’t have a business…which would preclude you from giving us advice on business wouldn’t it?
Is it just me, isn’t captain obvious getting just a bit upset about the comments of total strangers on a blog he doesn’t think we should read but he does…
  +6
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# 29 August 2011 at 8:30 am

Matt said:
$1600? A year ago I thought menwithpens had a great (and simple) business plan — a one-stop web design and copy shop. Then, the money bug bites and on come the fever and delusions.
$1600 will buy:
1. 160 (approx.) copies of
Stein On Writing: A Master Editor of Some of the Most Successful Writers of Our Century Shares His Craft Techniques and Strategies
2. 320 copies of Write Tight: How to Keep Your Prose Sharp, Focused and Concise
3. Two upper level creative writing class at a local university
4. 123 pair of sexy thigh high Halloween socks
WINNER!! ::   +27
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Matt Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:10 am
@Matt, edits: “classes” and “pairs” (“pair” works, but doesn’t sound as good.)
  +6
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memyselfandi Reply:
August 31st, 2011 at 5:45 am
@Matt,To teach “Damn Fine Writing” one has to be a damn fine writer. James Chartrand is not a damn fine writer. She’s an aspiring A-lister who, despite her best attempts, can’t quite reach that brass ring. She knows how to ride coattails and copy other bloggers but she doesn’t know a thing about damn fine writing.
  +5
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 9:05 am

Cosmic Connie said:
Another good post, @SD. You just keep getting yourself banned, don’t you? But the banned plays on…yay!
There really does seem to be a lot of advice about how easy it is to make money as a blogger and/or author. I find most of it pretty eye-rolling.
A few years ago, during a brief period when I was having friendly email exchanges with a minor Internet marketer who later had a meltdown and momentarily decided to forge a new career as a “critic watcher,” the IM-er gave me some advice about how I could leverage my skills as a book editor/ghostwriter and designer. For years my partner and I had been helping people create books — mostly print books, some e-books. Many clients self-published, some were published by traditional publishers, and some had done both. Our specialty has always been providing turnkey service — everything but the printing and promotion — staying with our authors every step of the way through the sometimes long and arduous process of creating a book.
Basically the h-dork’s message to me was that those writing, editing, design, and pre-press tasks were both time-and labor-intensive — and my partner and I were never going to really prosper just by doing that. He suggested that we branch out by selling information to authors. After all, we had all this knowledge gained from years of experience; why not share it? We could create infoproducts with relatively little effort, market them, and then just sit back and watch the money roll in. I am paraphrasing but that was the essence of his advice.
Yet I never felt comfortable with this concept, for the simple reason that there was and is an overabundance of information for authors on the Web for free. There’s a lot of good information, along with the expected share of bad information, misinformation, and, of course, incomplete information that is merely a come-on for the presenter’s book/DVD/podcast/workshop etc. Maybe we did overlook a small window that existed at some point. Maybe there really is nothing wrong with recycling/recreating/repackaging a bunch of information that’s already out there and selling it for a price. But it just didn’t feel right to us.
This isn’t to imply that all of the for-profit info for authors is bad, or that real writing and publishing experts who sell information are evil. Not at all. There are numerous good and useful books for authors, for example. But in our case, we didn’t feel that we had any *unique* information — only unique skills that people were willing to pay for. And we preferred to concentrate our efforts on marketing and providing those skills.
Nowadays with all of the do-it-yourself, publish-your-book-instantly services there doesn’t seem to be as much market for the time- and labor-intensive (not to mention relatively expensive) services offered by professional ghostwriters, editors, and book designers. I’m sure the recession has had a great deal to do with this too. In any case there *does* still seem to be a market for the shiny promises by New-Wage h-dorks and IM’ers who purport to teach guaranteed formulas for getting rich by writing a book. These same people give the advice that writing a book is easy, nearly effortless. All you have to do is give the adviser $1997, and you’re on your way…
One thing my partner and I have NEVER done is promise our clients that their book will make them rich. We never even guaranteed their books would be successful. No matter how good it is, how professionally written and edited and designed and produced — and really, no matter how cleverly marketed — THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES that a book will be successful or will make its author rich. And we’ve found that even the shortest and simplest book isn’t all that “easy” to create.
But people don’t want to hear that. In many cases, they also want the instant results of an online insta-book vending machine/author mill. There is a lot of money in author milling, at least if you’re Amazon, though smaller players have tried to get in on that action too. (Recently the IM-er who gave me that career advice has formed his own little author mill too, perhaps with hopes that he’ll put certain snarky hobby bloggers out of business for good.)
Fortunately, it is still possible to make an honest living writing, and I was a writer long before I was a book editor/ghostwriter/designer. I write because I love it, and one way or the other I will continue to make money spewing words. But I don’t think I’m going to get rich hobby-blogging, and I’m perfectly okay with that.
WINNER!! ::   +23
[Reply]

ryan Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 10:57 am
@Cosmic Connie,
“A few years ago, during a brief period when I was having friendly email exchanges with a minor Internet marketer who later had a meltdown and momentarily decided to forge a new career as a “critic watcher,” ”
^hahahaha what an eloquent way to put it. Am I guessing the identity of this person correctly?
WINNER!! ::   +8
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Cosmic Connie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
@ryan, I could give you a Pat answer but guessing games are more fun.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
@Cosmic Connie,

“But people don’t want to hear that. In many cases, they also want the instant results of an online insta-book vending machine/author mill.”>
Just get on Oprah – problem solved!
  +3
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
@Jack,
Oprah has produced more rich moronic writers (as well as other “non experts” in other fields) than any other venue in our lifetime. Thank goodness she called it quits — but we all know why that really is — it was getting too hot in the kitchen after the JAR story and other such fiascos.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
Bless you Connie for being in the minority of people who have had the chance to take advantage all for the sake of the almighty dollar, but chose and choose to do the right and honest thing. Money isn’t everythng, and last I heard, people who have a lot of it aren’t any happier or healthier — as a matter of fact, usually just the opposite — ask JAR.
  +6
[Reply]

Doctor Mario Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@Bonnie :: JAR doesn’t have any money. He couldn’t afford his own bail. His net worth was negative $4MM or worse. JAR was only good at Harmonically Attracting Wealth [for his banks & creditors]
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@Doctor Mario,
You mean so he “says”. We all know he’s got a stash hidden somewhere — too bad he won’t get to enjoy it.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

It could happen to anyone Reply:
April 20th, 2012 at 9:29 am
@Bonnie, @Connie,
It’s an interesting one: would Connie necessarily have been exploiitative using her own experience (and success – far more than the usual infofrauduct pedlars usually have;-) to filter the freely available information? I think it comes down to marketing and price point. Having read Connie’s posts here and on her blog, I’m certain her marketing would have been of the “I’ve written this book so you can have the benefit of my experience if you’d like” variety, rather than the more pernicious “you won’t succeed without my book” IM-staple. And it would’ve been at a “bookstore” rather than “faux gravitas through outrageous pricing” price point. That’s not to say I think Connie *should* have sold such a product – I think we need to pay attention to our own conscience – but rather to say she wouldn’t necessarily have been scammy had she done so.
Allan
  +2
[Reply]

Martypants Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 11:38 pm
@Cosmic Connie, I know really well you are a writer of backbone, and style…you and your partner have nothing to worry about. Karma is indeed a bitch, unless she’s on your team, and i’d bet she has a room at your house (pillows covered in cat hair no doubt, but still hers).
Let the rest of them figure it out: just keep writing – I’ll keep reading.
  +5
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 9:59 am

Rafael Marquez said:
I bought that Darren Rouse book about blogging your way to a six figure income. It didn’t say anything that wasn’t already on the blog that I hadn’t already read for free. I was disappointed that the magic unicorns were not present.
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Adam Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Rafael Marquez, What on earth made you buy it? Are you really that stupid?
LOSER!! ::   -12
[Reply]

Rafael Marquez Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
@Adam,
Apparently
  +5
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Adam,
Now, that wasn’t nice, was it? — you know we all make mistakes until we learn better.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Madge Crikey Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@Adam, Now don’t you be messing with Rafael, young man. I have a large handbag and I know how to use it! Lord knows I’d buy me a bus ticket to go spend my final days with Rafael in Texas if Mr. Crikey were to pass. You can’t always wait on heaven, you know. Especially when you can get there by bus.
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

Rafael Marquez Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 8:37 am
@Madge Crikey, @Bonnie
Thank you both! Madge, you’re welcome to come visit me anytime!
:-)
  +6
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 10:06 am

Lanna said:
I started laughing when I saw that book! A few months ago I attended a very helpful lawyer’s lunch-and-learn on the legalities of re-blogging other people’s content. There was a guy there who – when he heard I’m a copywriter – asked if I’d read this book. I said I hadn’t, and he suddenly seemed kind of deflated and distrustful of me, like he thought he’d found another true believer but instead found a charlatan. I gave him my card so we could “reconnect” or whatever, and I figured I might as well check out this book so I could discuss it with him. I got it from the library, so no money went to Darren Rowse and Chris Garrett, which was a relief when I started paging through it. It’s not that it’s not helpful, it’s just mis-titled. “Blogging for Dummies: How to Get Your Grandmother a Free Blogspot Account” would be more accurate. I was pretty relieved when I never heard from that guy.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 1:22 pm

what?? said:
I wonder why they don’t want to post your fine comments? At least Laura Roeder has the trackback to this post on hers right now.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 1:46 pm

SD (author) said:
I just wanted to use my frist comment today :: before I start taking care of trolls an saving the world and whatnot :: to say …
Manchester United 8 :: Arsenal 2
[Reply]

Edson Arantes do Nascimento Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 11:15 pm
@SD,
I can dig it! Also, a ray of hope that the Universe is re-balancing itself…
Real Madrid 6 :: Zaragoza 0
  +2
[Reply]

Mark Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 1:20 am
@SD,
That’s why it’s called the Theatre of Dreams :)
  0
[Reply]

Juice Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 10:14 am
@Mark, Built for the Rugby League Grand Final! I can’t wait to see Fergie’s face when his bowling green gets ripped up again soon.
  0
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 1:50 pm

Dave said:
SD, are you working on exposing Allen Says of the Warrior Forum? Or maybe Paul Meyers? I would love to see those idiots defend their leader.
  +6
[Reply]

Nigerian Scamming Association Pty., LTD. Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@Dave, Until the Warrior Forum’s moment in the spotlight arrives, maybe this will help tide you over:
http://www.warriorforumsucks.com
Speaking of Paul Myers, behold his surprisingly palatial mansion that internet mocketing paid for:
http://www.warriorforumsucks.com/2010/08/warrior-forums-paul-myers-luxurious.html
  +5
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 1:58 pm

Doctor Mario said:
Is it just me … or does anyone else find a bit of irony in how all these suck{cessfully}-blogging-about-blogging experts rely on wanton censorship of dissent as site moderation policy — in direct contradiction to the advice they give … while the SaltyDroid lets almost ALL the riff-raff commenters have their say — leaving it up to the site’s readers to decide on a comment’s relevance ourselves.
I’m willing to bet that saltydroid.info gets more Trolls on the prowl than PooBlogger, CrappyBlogger, SpiderBitch, and Create {F}Lame combined. Yet here their Trolly-commentary remains, only one click away (Hidden due to low comment rating).
I think this fact alone proves who are the nude emperors here, desperately asserting their power … and who is a small fake robot, host to the land of the free interwebz.
Honestly, you fake gurus are pitiful.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 2:06 pm

SD (author) said:
Oh my gosh look at this …
http://ittybiz.com/death-threats-online/
These people are escalating, and they’re looking for a success. Hate bloggers claim innocence because they are acting within their First Amendment rights. But their mobs look up to them, and the mob mentality that they are stoking is escalating.
I am being stalked. People want to kill me. They want me to be afraid.
These people are planning a hate crime, and they are relying on me hiding in silence to succeed.
Ha! Don’t worry you silly chubby spider … I’m just going to expose the truth about you being an absolute and total fraud {like I tend to do}. So you’re safes!! It’s going to be fun actually :: I’m having fun at least.
[Reply]

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
@SD, I have to disagree with her. Mob is gross overstatement. More like people-upset-because-they-cant-be-ninjas-in-real-life…heh.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   -1
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@SD, I can’t tell if she is seriously that paranoid or if she’s spinning another tidy little web to catch more flies. Big black waves indeed.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

RT Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Mean Website 2 … what a quack this chick is.
Is she serious?
The upcoming weeks should be entertaining … unless your a spiderbitch … then maybe not so fun :)
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
@RT, that it should. That post is spreading like wildfire on twitter.
  +2
[Reply]

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Now would be a good time to stop talking and start posting facts. You do have an attorney, right? I may just sit back and watch how quickly salty dog deletes crap, or how quickly his dozen faithful followers run and hide.
LOSER!! ::   -11
[Reply]

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
…and it doesn’t surprise me that he doesn’t respond. I imagine he’s on the phone with his attorney right about now.
LOSER!! ::   -13

what?? Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@wow,
Perhaps now would be a good time for you to do your research and know what the hell you’re talking about before posting comments. It might make it less obvious to everyone how ignorant you really are.
WINNER!! ::   +11

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@what??, heh, your crazy ninja remarks don’t insult me. I’m laughing at your fake arrogance.
LOSER!! ::   -13

RT Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@wow,
Hey dipshit … this post might be particularly interesting for you to read: http://saltydroid.info/jason-and-the-droid-part-2/
WINNER!! ::   +11

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@RT, completely irrelevant to the current conversation, but I’ll give you an C- for effort.
LOSER!! ::   -15

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@wow ::
More bizarre comments from the Birmingham Alabamas :: just like our new not-friend @I Don’t Buy It … what an incredible coincidence. The lord moves in mysterious ways! Am I to suppose that you are also just here because of your interest in sites that don’t rank for tattoos in the SERPs??
You’re right though about that post getting buzz … it’s seriously crazy town … people are into that.
Then people are like :: “where is this death threating Mean Site 2″ :: and then they find it cause I am in the SERPs. And then they’re like :: “hey wait this is awesome … and fucking hysterical … and OMG she mentions that she had a preemie four year ago … TWICE!”
So thanks … thanks a lot.
And yeah I think I might be able to round up a lawyer or 20 … but I won’t need to.
toodles.

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, I’d love to see you launch into the Birminghamians. What names do you feel like throwing out at us? ‘Cause so far, ya got JACK. BTW, you’re right. It was you I found in the SERPs. And, all of a sudden, more of these posts are being thumbed-up instead of down, so don’t be counting your “awesomes” just yet. Your army of less than 20 are ill-equipped to take on the Twitter world.
LOSER!! ::   -15

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@rt, from the partnersagainsthate.org website:
“Has anyone ever been held liable in the United States for encouraging acts of violence on the World Wide Web?
Yes. In 1999, a coalition of groups opposed to abortion was ordered to pay over $100 million in damages for providing information for a Web site called “Nuremberg Files,” a site which posed a threat to the safety of a number of doctors and clinic workers who perform abortions. The site posted photos of abortion providers, their home addresses, license plate numbers, and the names of their spouses and children. In three instances, after a doctor listed on the site was murdered, a line was drawn through his name. Although the site fell short of explicitly calling for an assault on doctors, the jury found that the information it contained amounted to a real threat of bodily harm.”
http://www.partnersagainsthate.org/about_hate_crimes/faq-html.html#16
LOSER!! ::   -16
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
@wow ::
I am explicitly against all forms of violence … even when a person seems to deserve it. That’s not how problems get solved … it’s just another problem.
And when the day finally comes that The Man has to subpoena my emails because some crazy out-of-control nut job accuses me of a serious threat … then they will find a very pleasant surprise … a person genuinely trying to help … a person sacrificing much for people who mostly hate him … a person talking down upset people with bad ideas … a person absorbing :: without comment :: an absurd number of threats.
Somehow I don’t see that hurting my reputation.

_cartman_ Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@SD,
“…I got one telling me that if I went to a popular blogger’s conference in November, they would find me, they would kill me, and they would kill everyone around me.” -Naomi Dunford IttyBiz
dude…she’s playing a very dangerous game…I don’t think she received any threat, and is using it as a diversionary ploy…except what she doesn’t realize is that there will be people who will contact the authorities if not for her safety…for their own [[since what she published constitutes an act of terrorism to happen at an upcoming public event]]…no “anonymizing” proxy will protect the identity of anyone who transmitted [[or created Naomi]] that threat…
WINNER!! ::   +12

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
@_cartman_ ::
Yeah … speaking as someone who knows about getting threats … it sounds like an obvious lie. But if she did get such a threat … so specifically detailed … she should report it to the authorities immediately.

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@cartman, thank you for making my point about needing an attorney.
LOSER!! ::   -10

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, there is only one thing you and your loyal groupies need to understand. You yell FIRE in a theater and someone dies, you go to jail. You over-serve alcohol in a bar to a person and they drive and kill someone, you go to jail. Whether you, your wanna-be ninjas or dude-off-his-meds directly made a threat is irrelevant. And, I wouldn’t worry about a reputation. You have to have one to lose it. You and letterstodavewhomever explicity gave personal details and encouraged violence against her (yes, you did). No back peddling here. You’re in it for the long haul now.
LOSER!! ::   -12
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
@wow ::
And what you and your lack of loyal groupies need to understand is that First Amendment law is kind of my thing … so I won’t be needing your idiotic lessons. I’m mean I’m sure you graduated from High School and everything … but still … I won’t be needing your lessons.
[Reply]

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, and here I thought sitting on your ass while being an ass was your thing. First amendment didn’t work out so well for the abortion activists, did it?
LOSER!! ::   -8

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@SD, oh look, more people who hate you just found you.
LOSER!! ::   -13

Adam Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@wow, Proof. How about posting some proof?
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Adam, could ya be more specific?
LOSER!! ::   -13

Adam Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@WOW, More specific? Post some specific proof regarding the accusations that you are making. For instance, post a URL where we can read these threats. Or, if it’s easier, show us what you mean by “yelling fire”. When did SD (or anyone else) “yell fire”?
I know you are speaking metaphorically (even though your English is terrible) but in order for anyone to take you seriously you need to back up your argument with facts.
SD (and pretty much anyone with half a brain) can prove that Naomi and all the other third tribe crew are a syndicate and a fraudulent one at that. However, you can’t provide (prove me wrong here, please) evidence of any metaphorical rock throwing at Naomi (I don’t know why I’m referring to Naomi in the third person when it’s pretty obvious she is you) yet you seek to make legal threats in a way that suggests you have a smoking gun.
Where’s your smoking gun Naomi? That’s all I’m asking.
WINNER!! ::   +10

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Adam, if you had read the post she wrote, she received the direct threats in emails. And if you know I’m speaking metaphorically, then why make yourself look stupid? I’m sure you have to read it more than once to understand the concept of causing violence indirectly and being held liable for it. You have such faith in your leader, don’t you? (You should get off your knees. You are humiliating yourself.) I will disregard the cheap shot at my English (a Birmingham slur, I’m sure). You simply aren’t worth the trouble of being properly addressed. And, if nothing else, I’ve sent the brainless trolls like you to Birmingham to look for her, so I guess I’ve done some good here. And, that’s makes me giggle.
LOSER!! ::   -11

Adam Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
@WOW, There really is no hope for you. If you think that the correct response to my comment is that paragraph of drivel then you are beyond hope.
Birmingham? What the hell are you talking about?
I won’t bother replying to you again so you can go ahead and have the last word.
WINNER!! ::   +11

Doctor Mario Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@Wow ::
Actually, that post in no way states that she received the direct threats in emails. The only thing she (aka you) wrote was that you receivied an email from one of the Mean Site owners that ended with “I guess I’ll see you around.”
Doesn’t sound too threatening to me … but if that’s what constitutes a threat to you, Dumbford, then I guess I’ll be seeing you around too.
And what @Adam said actually made you look stupid (not him) … especially when you responded w/ your charming Birmingham English … w/o providing the specific proof for which @Adam was asking.
So, come on SpiderBitch … where’s the proof?
Here are your options:
a) Post the URL where these specific threats occurred.
b) Post a screenshot of the email in question. Or copy & paste it. Please remember the Sender’s address.
That simple. Says you, SpiderBitch ::
“These people are escalating, and they’re looking for a success.”
You’re right Naomi. Success = Nothing less than an indictment.
How’s that for a threat, ya damn criminal!
WINNER!! ::   +12

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Doctor Mario, hats off to you for confusing the hell out of me. Question, if you think I’m Naomi, would you really have any need to insult Birmingham? Try again. Think it through this time.
LOSER!! ::   -13

Phil Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
@Adam, I’m not convinced that nutty “wow” is in Birmingham. I’m only convinced that is where “wow’s” IP funnels “wow” out onto the net.
This is especially over the top ridiculous, and sounds just like the spider’s own nonsensical recent ramblings:
“And, if nothing else, I’ve sent the brainless trolls like you to Birmingham to look for her…”
How utterly absurd. But one thing is for sure: if this isn’t the spider, it’s one of her most adoring flies.
WINNER!! ::   +10

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Phil, I could count the number of people who share your opinions on two hands and they are all right here on this thread. Why does the rest of the world doubt you? Answer: Lack of integrity(and we are just smarter than you). Just toxic venom spewed at the world because you have nothing better to do with your life, no job, and that is how you create joy in your lives. You thrive on this!
Twitter. Check it. And then make a mindless comment to this comment and then another and then another, because that’s what you do and you enjoy it.
LOSER!! ::   -10

Esquire, Esq Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@wow aka ittybiz,
Hey, at least now we know what you meant by hate site #1 and hate site #2.
PS. You may want to read the definition of hate in a dictionary. Here’s a hint… it’s not “people who criticize your site.”
PSS. You may also want to look into the meaning of claims. As in “income claims” etc etc.
PSSS. Even if you don’t want to, you should also look into “discovery.” As in, when “Scam Site 1″ (let’s call it ProBlooger.com) files a lawsuit against Site 2 (let’s call it FunnyRobot.org)….then FunnyRobot.org can “discover” lots of interesting things. Also, FunnyRobot.org can “croo-complain” against “Scam Site 2″ (let’s call it ittybitty.com) and a bunch of other scammers (let’s call them Third Trite).
PSSSS. A dozen minions? Pffft. Compete and Alexa no think so. But what would Complete and Alexa know, we’re just a pimple on third tribe’s butt, right?
PSSSS. Turn back to the light side of the force, there is still time!
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

wow Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Esquire, Esq, did you happen to read salty dog’s statement about me being in birmingham, the same city as yesterday’s visitor? #nincompoop Twitter. people. look it up.
LOSER!! ::   -16

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
@Esquire, Esq, (really at “wow”)
I sure hope you keep the original copies of those threatening emails, Naomi! — somehow, I think you’re really going to need them!
WINNER!! ::   +10

Anna Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
@wow, So many of your comments are so…ill-informed. And obviously personally on the defensive. And while I don’t usually play the grammar card, is it “back pedaling” that you mean? As far as I know, Salty isn’t selling anything, so “back peddling” is sort of irrelevant. I’m sure you graduated from high school. Keep it up with the stupid comments. So much fodder.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Doctor Mario Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@SD :: lolololol is she actually talking about this post? Her crazy long boring writing does have some highly distorted, but vaguely similar elements to yours @SD.
I hope that this is a prime example of being caught red handed in how blatantly & outrageously she spins a lie — in this case about something which we’re all here experiencing directly…
Allow me to save you all the click & reading the whole long bullshit of SpiderBitch Dumbford, with my edited & commented version of that post:
“At one point, a commentator told the website owner that they had a group of people “waiting in ambush”. The website owner said he would be “interested” in meeting in person to see what they had in mind, and provided multiple ways to get in touch with him to arrange a meeting in his home state…
{really Dumbford? really this happened? no URL? no reference? really???}
In an act of startling coincidence, my site got hacked. Google “ittybiz” around that time and you wouldn’t get me. You would, interestingly, get Mean Website 2. Funny how that works. {pwnd}
I just didn’t expect the death threats.
Wait a second. Death threats?
They decided I had to die.{lololol}
I got a death threat.
I got another death threat.
And then I got one telling me that if I went to a popular blogger’s conference in November, they would find me, they would kill me, and they would kill everyone around me.
{This is my fav part Dumbford. Quality, believable writing … what is this, the Tishnik Massacre? Honestly, no link to that post? I’d love to read it! Those people are crrrrrazy over at MeanWebsite 2! Did you know making death threats online is a Crime, Dumbford? u no hazz lawyerz??}
As the comments started to escalate on Mean Website 2, one reader expressed pleasure that the website owner was attacking a woman, inferring he hoped there would be more. The owner’s response:
“Oh and also … some other “real women” should be thinking hard right now about their actions. Because I really like to give group discounts … because of how fond I am of people working in groups.”
{ROFLOL she has to be talking about you here, @SD … that above statement was concluded, “French for trade union …” lololol}
I am being stalked. People want to kill me. They want me to be afraid.
These people are planning a hate crime, and they are relying on me hiding in silence to succeed.
And, yes. I will hide. But I will not be silenced. {lame-o! I suggest STFU, Dumbford, you compulsive insane liar.}
But, wow. That’s all I can say, Dumbford. Wow … this is one of the funniest in a while…
You really picked a winner here @SD! Blogger-Douches FTW!!!
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
@SD,
Wow, what an imagination that woman has! And a unique talent to twist the truth into things to suit her desired means — well, I have to give her this much, anyways — she could probably make a good enough living as a fantasy writer!
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Analyst 5718 Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Reading what Naomi Dunsford wrote should make everyone afraid. Of HER!
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
The hustledorks and hustledorkesses do love to play the martyr card, don’t they?
It appears that Spider Woman has grabbed this op to play the gender-discrimination card as well, while sending out an alarm about an alleged “hate crime” in the making.
Notice how she frames her complaint, portraying herself as a hero/fighter:
“Because this isn’t about me. I have the resources to protect myself. I have the support of a strong community with loud voices and far reaches. I have a contact list full of experienced friends who can give me crash course media training at 11 o’clock on a Sunday night.
“This is about innocent women bloggers getting attacked for trying to make a go of it online. This is about all the people who are petrified when they get hate mail and don’t know who to ask for help. This is about smaller bloggers, and newbies, and women just finding their voice….”
###
Funny, I had just finished doing a crude Photoshop of Kevin True-dough on a Superhero body when I read @SD’s link to Naomi’s latest blog post…
Come to think of it, “hate bloggers” actually have grounds to portray themselves as martyrs too. After all, I’ve gotten death threats myself. But I have to be honest and say that I think it’s because of the content of my blog, not because of that gender thing.
Perhaps some people will think I am betraying my gender and the entire cause of women’s advancement by not rushing to Naomi’s defense (even as I did not come out swinging in defense of Kathy Sierra a few years back, but chose instead to stick up for a person I consider to be an ally, Chris Locke). I want women to succeed and frankly, I don’t like reading gratuitous insults about their looks or their sexuality. (I generally don’t like reading insults about men’s looks or sexuality either.) But if a woman is going to “succeed” by being a New-Wage huckster, she deserves snarking about that. And if she is committing fraud she deserves exposure.
No, Naomi does not deserve death threats, but then again, I’ve never made a death threat to her or to anyone myself, and I don’t think I’ve seen any here.
WINNER!! ::   +17
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
I was still typing my last comment when one of @SD’s latest came in. I have no doubt, @SD, that you receive threats all the time. And I hope you’re saving them.
And @wow, it is absurd to even imply that what Salty is doing here is comparable to the vicious activists who explicitly promote violence.
WINNER!! ::   +15
[Reply]

Barbara Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@SD,
Hey, don’t look at me, I didn’t threaten her. All I did was reveal her true bra size. And, uh…I did suggest to her that she change her name to Heftybiz, in the interest of truth in advertising.
I wouldn’t harm a gooey little hair on her head, not for all the money you can make in bloggerland.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Phil Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
@Barbara, Relax. You don’t need to deconstruct or defend your fully entitled opinion, which clearly was no threat. She hasn’t a leg to stand on. A rational comparison of Naomi’s outrageous claims to the criticism at hand will only make her look bad.
Furthermore, while such a baseless criminal claim would go nowhere, it could also backfire, since a false criminal accusation could result in her own prosecution.
Obviously, she didn’t think this out before she started making things up.
WINNER!! ::   +14
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
@Phil,
Now, that’s funny, Phil. I was thinking the same thing, but I didn’t want to say anything because I didn’t want to alert her so that she could stop digging herself deeper and deeper into the hole. Ah, but alas, it’s too late for her now, no matter what she does! After all, she has asked everyone to spread this all over the net and they probably did! Loyal followers that she has! Wait til they find out the truth though!
Sorry, Naomi, you can run, honey, but you can’t hide! And I’ll give you a C too, but it ain’t gonna be for effort!
WINNER!! ::   +11
[Reply]

anonone Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
ShIttybiz had the audacity to compare herself to the brilliant and talented Kathy Sierra, who actually did receive credible threats.
ShIttybiz isn’t qualified to empty Kathy Sierra’s pencil sharpener.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

memyselfI Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@anonone, It’s a smokescreen. Dave Navarro emptied his bank account and left his wife and three kids penniless while he and Naomi traveled around the globe, running from place to place like a band of criminals. What better alibi for the courtrooms then to say they couldn’t stay in one place because they’re receiving death threats. For Pete’s Sake, they said David’s brother Anthony threatened them. No one buys that.
Proof or it didn’t happen, Naomi.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@anonone, After reading numerous blog posts and discussion forum comments about the Kathy Sierra situation, I never did fully understand everything about it, which is why I didn’t come out in her defense. However, I did think that accusations of misogyny regarding one of the parties involved, blogger Chris Locke, were unfounded.
I will be interested in seeing how Naomi’s drama plays out.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Jack Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 6:41 pm
@Cosmic Connie, Kathy/Chris had made the copost about it here:
http://www.rageboy.com/statements-sierra-locke.html
  +4
[Reply]

anonone Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
@Cosmic Connie,
I didn’t follow the Kathy Sierra story much either, except to know two things:
1) She pioneered incredible and innovative books for learning programming languages (The “Head First” series). She was about teaching programming, not getting rich quick. I have read 3 of them.
2) She walked her talk about being awesome to her customers and clients.
ShItty Biz is a pretender and a fraud with nothing to offer that is either innovative or unique. She isn’t even good or interesting at the craft of fraudstering. At least some of the fraudsters have talent; she has none.
Kathy Sierra is an person that both men and women would do well to emulate.
a1
  +6
[Reply]

Sundog Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
@SD, Kevin Smith, dude
  0
[Reply]

Lance Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@Sundog, Yep, he’s a dude alright.
  0
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 2:09 pm

Alexa Smith said:
The secret to successful pro-blogging is Elvis Costello glasses.
  +6
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 2:13 pm

SD (author) said:
I did send her an email though :: here it is …
Date :: August 17th 5:25pm
To :: ninjas@ittybiz.com {the email listed on her contact page}
Subject :: Love ur stuffs
Naomi ::
I really love everything you’re doing … with the possible exception of everything you’re doing.
It’s too bad that you get “WHOA” amounts of email and won’t be able to respond to me personally. It’s odd cause I’m orders of magnitude more popular than you … yet I have no problem keeping up on my email.
Anywayz :: I guess I’ll see you around the cyberspaces!
To our fake success,
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@SD, Sooo…. as usual, selective editing to create fake stories and false dramas? Hooray :)
  +6
[Reply]

Bullshit Detector Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@SD, If that’s the flimsy basis for her b.s. of late, she’s completely lost it. She’s operating as a business, and that’s some of the mildest feedback a business could ever get. If she doesn’t want email, she shouldn’t post her email. It’s a simple principle.
Now, if she wants to see real consternation, she should ask to see the emails that Amazon.com gets whenever they mis-ship a thesaurus.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Doctor Mario Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 1:22 am
@SD :: Well, you did {horrifyingly} say that you’ll “see [her] around …” — but you left out “the cyberspaces” Dumbford!
Little less scary when it turns out your scary “see you around” threat is by a Fake Robot who will “see you around” the non-physical world of the interwebz.
Naomi … @SD was right. You’ve said WAY too much. Your marks … er :: customers will find this site. And ;; you ;; will ;; lose ;; your ;; lunch (and dinner ;; and “business”). I suggest therapy.
  +2
[Reply]

Calvin Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 4:05 am
@Doctor Mario, Intentionally leaving off that quite significant ‘virtual’ qualifier from her twisted revisionism does scream “manipulation” on her part.
Email has a verifiable fingerprint, and can be tracked and content-checked for authenticity by way of the multiple handshakes that are registered and logged as it passes from server to server. In other words, she ain’t gonna win this one.
The bottom line is that she’s got her little spider feelings hurt, and is trying to swing back using plain old air, along with easily disproven falsehoods, because that’s all she’s got.
She must not have read the memo about SD not being susceptible to bullying.
  +4
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 5:05 pm

RT said:
@wow
You have said twice – Twitter. Check It.
What is everyone supposed to be checking?
P.S. Your comments are becoming more and more unintelligent.
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:08 pm
@RT ::
Yes Twitter is very powerful :: just ask Newt Gingrich …
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 5:29 pm

Jenny Thomas said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I couldn’t really give a flying fuck whether @naomidunford is doing with her life, whether her claims are true, whether she fucked her husband over.whatever…who cares??
..she writes well, I like her stuff…and it gets me off my arse and making strides in my business…I wanna read stuff that rocks my inbox…and she does…
your point was what ? that her content isn’t firing because she might not be 1000% honest ??
who cares? I mean seriously….#theworldhasmuchbiggerproblemstothinkabout :)
LOSER!! ::   -14
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
@Jenny Thomas,
Yes, Naomi — and if you didn’t care, then what are you doing here trying so hard to defend yourself and keep what few unfortunate followers and robbed blind customers that you may have left after all this? They’ll all know the truth soon enough. Your efforts are for naught. Just like worthless you.
WINNER!! ::   +12
[Reply]

Anon Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
@Jenny Thomas,
I dunno about you, but when I find out that someone I “like” screws over the people who trust them the most, destroying that trust and a couple of families in the process, I kinda don’t want to buy anything from them anymore. I guess that’s just me, expecting honesty and stand-up behavior from people I want to give my money to – especially people who claim that I can trust them to reflect their trustworthiness in all aspects of their lives.
I guess I just don’t have what it “takes” to be a pro-blogger.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:08 pm
@Jenny Thomas ::
Thank you for not caring :: I’d love to see more of that.
[Reply]

Joe Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
@Jenny Thomas:
You have one seriously screwed up moral compass, and that kind of shallowness totally reeks of sociopathy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
That link is not for you, but for people who want to spot and avoid those like you, since sociopaths have no empathy or concern about how they impact the lives of those around them.
  +5
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 5:59 pm

Confused said:
This entire situation has me really upset. I have been a follower of a lot of these people for a long time. They all say “Be an authority/Do something great/Be a leader/Teach what you know” and I easily fell into that business model because I was a newbie online and wanted to avoid going back to work after having a baby.
But it never sat right with me. I felt really weird, like just because I knew a bit about something didn’t make me an expert. But that seemed to be the only business model they pushed… anything else would lead to epic failure. So I followed along, bought their products and built my business around teaching people something I had a bit of knowledge in. I should have followed Gary Vee and his whole Crush It thing cuz then I’d have an online business around my passions instead of something boring I had a smidgen of knowledge about.
So anyways, after a year of doing that – even though yes, I did provide information that helped people – I couldn’t do it anymore and gave it up a couple months ago. I would just look around and see everyone else doing it too. Everyone is an expert and it’s really annoying. “Hey I know how to get 100 followers, listen to this”, “Hey, I made $23.00 today, here’s what I did”.
Anyways, I want to be a business owner online and after reading all this, I think it just confirms the weird feelings I had all along – this way to earn a living is just taking advantage of people who are new and want to make a living online.
SD –> What do you recommend IS a good business model online? I’d love to keep working online but since giving up my ‘i know stuff about business’ business, I’ve been sort of floating around trying to figure out how to do something meaningful and respectable here. I would appreciate your suggestions so I go in the right path. Many thanks for all these posts, I wish I had found them sooner.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Bonnie Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
@Confused,
Amen! This old granny is bowing down to you and commending you, young lady!I can see you`re going to go far in this world and not by taking advantage of people and fleecing the less fortunate and gullible. You`re also being a fine example to that child or children! Be proud of yourself!
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Glad I Was Broke Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
@Confused,
http://saltydroid.info/who-do-i-like/
The fact that you asked ME :: of all the fake robots you could have asked :: means you kinda know the answer already. The thing you seek that you fear might not actually exist … doesn’t exist. Sorry about that … for realz I am. But it’s so hard to make money online … just as hard or harder than in the real world. IMO :: the vast majority of ‘make money online’ products are a complete and total waste of time and money {or worse}.
If you want to try and make a go of it on the web … then learn by doing … starting NOW. Doing is the only way to learn on a fast moving medium. And “doing” doesn’t mean selling an e-book about how to sell e-books {although that’s still better than buying one}. Go free/cheap until you’ve built something that’s worthy of financial investment. That’s the cool thing about the Internet :: that’s the fucking miracle :: you can try and fail for free.
NO ONE can tell you how to succeed on the Internet :: because no one knows.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Jaime Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
@Confused,
The idea is to create and sell things that are real and provide actual value. All the screw-ups discussed on this blog sell fake hopes and false dreams.
The “problem” is that real value actually takes work. Often very hard work with many long hours, especially at the beginning of a project/business.
Selling the dream takes much less work.
There’s a 1000 options for using the internet to make money, but blogging about things you actually enjoy is probably not one of them.
  +5
[Reply]

Confused Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
@Jaime, see i have to disagree there because I find real value in the content I’ve gotten from some of these people – real value. They do talk about big pay days and hype things up but the advice is good if you apply it. I’ve benefited from it since I started but at the same time – too many people apply it to the B2B mindset – sell them tips on doing what you do, even if you’ve just started, have little experience and only know a tiny tiny tiny bit about this area.
If I had 20 years experience doing something and felt comfortable building a brand around that – great. But teaching people something I only just learned myself, that’s where I made a mistake – what I never felt good about. And I see it all the time now and it’s frankly annoying. I made $12 today, here’s my exact formula: boring!
@Glad I Was Broke,
Thanks for the link and excerpt. Disheartening to say the least. Might be time to build up that passion based community site talking to others about stuff I like – or dislike – like this place!
It’s funny because my entire time online in business, I’ve radiated toward blogs and websites by people who have built brands having absolutely nothing to do with business, they are businesses don’t get me wrong – but they aren’t showing me how to have their business!
The nutritionist’s blog I read isn’t teaching me how to be a nutritionist – she’s teaching me about nutrition. The party planner’s blog I follow is showing me the parties she creates or sells her party planning services – she isn’t teaching me how to be a party planner.
so that’s where things go wrong with many of these people I think.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +2
[Reply]

Slowly Waking Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
@Confused, & for what it’s worth, if their advice isn’t making you money, it doesn’t have real value.
  +4
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:47 pm


If someone feels that a business’s product/service has value to them and there is a “meeting of the minds” regarding that transaction
In the cases mentioned on this site, product “values” are predicated on false statements, so legally there is no meeting of the minds, and any subsequent “contract” is not binding.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Confused Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
@_cartman_, wow, I haven’t dug deep enough into this site yet but will – i hear what you are saying now. I guess I’ve been seeing this stuff so often that you sort of get desensitized to it (the hoopla).
  +5
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
@confused,
strange…
actually…not sure what happened…but that response was actually meant for Carla [[her quote]]…not sure how it ended up under your quote…
I was going to mention something about nutritionists and then decided against it…as it wasn’t really relevant to the subject matter at hand
  +4
[Reply]

Slowly Waking Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
@Confused, hey. You’re not the only one. I used to comment here a lot when I was shaking off the IM sleaze, and you remind me of me back then. I’m glad you’re reading.
SD never recommends any online biz model.
I won’t either. That said, people do make money online. Most such successful people live in Râmnicu Vâlcea. Remember, they’re your competition.
That said, I guess if you want an online business, get a real business first. Gary Vee had the advantage of being super-passionate about something his family already sold in a brick-and-mortar store. When he started doing Wine TV for “free,” it was advertising for his father’s store, not for an affiliate website that offered an 8% commission. Also, I think his “be passionate” line works best when your passion is liquor, complex financial instruments, or extracting oil from tar sands. My passion is bunnies. Sadly, my bunny business is moribund.
I think Vaynerchuk’s as much of a huckster as IttyBiz, Problogger, or the others I hope get routed here soon (Clay Collins, Chris Guillebeau, Ken McCarthy, etc). In my experience, they all sell junk. And they design it with key gaps to get you to buy their next ridiculous ebook… or infoproduct… or overpriced course at a lousy airport hotel. Eventually they end up cranking out little versions of themselves, little marketing consultants without their secret ingredient: an utter disregard for the mental and financial well-being of their customers. IM advice belongs in the same bin as late-night infomercials, New Age scams, and rah-rah self-help books.
It’s to your credit that you listened to your weird feelings and got out. I sincerely hope you find something that uses your skills & talents while helping people, that makes you money while giving you time with your new child. “Make Money Online” will just drain your energy while setting you in an endless loop of chasing fake money, fake gurus, and false hopes.
WINNER!! ::   +13
[Reply]

Confused Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
@Slowly Waking, thank you so much for your comment. What you’re saying is exactly what I need to hear – “get a real business first” – YES! I need something real that can be brought online – if that makes sense. What I mean by Gary Vee is exactly what you’re saying too – it was an offline business he brought online and I believe I have the skills to make it successful, although I will need to ponder for a long time on what that “real” business will be.
I truly appreciate your time.
I’ll be following here to see the latest, it’s definitely enlightening. I also can’t take the “follow your passion” businesses out there – they also just sell the make money online tips too.
And there’s one person in the 3 you mentioned in brackets that I absolutely agree with you on, I purchased something that was wildly overpriced and hobbled together (total crap) and even read later something he wrote that basically confirmed he did the entire product just for the money. Unbelievable.
  +5
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
@Slowly Waking ::
You always pop up at good moments. :)
@Confused ::
Hi! Hang around for awhile …
[Reply]

Slowly Waking Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
@SD, thx! I just wanted to supply a comments before successful ran out.
  +3
[Reply]

Bud Hennekes Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
@Slowly Waking, How does Garyvee sell junk?
  0
[Reply]

Slowly Waking Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
@Bud Hennekes, well, he probably sells good wine.
I mean, I haven’t CRUSHED IT up to Jersey to CRUSH a bottle yet.
CRUSH IT
CRUSH IT
CRU
  +3
[Reply]

Anna Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
@Confused, Like other commenters have said, I think you have some ethics, but making money online? I don’t know. I have a blog with a small following about micro-farming and prairie restoration. People who know me ask if I’m hoping to turn it into a book some day. I doubt it. It’s been done. More than anything, it’s an online journal of what we’re doing. If we make any money eventually, it’ll be selling vegetables and fruit. Maybe eventually meat and cheese. But then this is all a side line for us. It doesn’t now, nor will it ever pay all the bills.
  +6
[Reply]

Lanna Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 11:11 pm
@Confused,
Regarding value, as Matt pointed out in comment #29, they’re giving you the same information you could get from a $10 book but charging $1600 for it. You’re better off doing a Google search and looking at all the free how-to articles and video tutorials posted by genuine experts to establish their expertise (like the nutritionist you mention).
What Jaime said about hard work and long hours is true. Part-time work will result in part-time pay, no matter if you’re earning an hourly wage, a sales commission or ad revenue from a blog. Even the nationwide marketing folks at the big MLMs are frustrated by how many people believe in the stay-at-home, get-rich-quick lies. Take a look at the income disclosure statements MLMs are required by law to provide, and you will see a direct correlation between hours worked and income.
Actually, that is one of the big things that separates the out-and-out scammers Salty covers from the gray-area MLMs. Anyone offering a business opportunity has to provide an income disclosure statement now. These scammers slink past that by saying it’s just a class or an e-book while charging business opportunity prices and making business opportunity claims.
Jaime’s also right about there being 1000 ways to make money online. There are also 1000 ways to make money offline. Offline, you could work as an offsite bookkeeper; online you could be a virtual assistant. Offline, you could sell hand-knit mittens at craft fairs; online you could sell them on Etsy. Offline, you could write a zine and charge businesses for ad space; online you could write a blog and earn AdSense revenue. Any of these could succeed or fail. There’s no magic formula or killer internet unicorn.
  +6
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 6:16 pm

Carla said:
Whoa,
It took me awhile to decipher what was going on here.
I don’t usually read this blog, it’s just doesn’t fit in with my worldview and it’s not a mentality I want to spend much time around.
Unlike the author and the majority of the commenters on this site, I believe in free enterprise, that everyone is free to set their own price for their goods and services and that everyone has a right to spend their money where they wish.
If someone feels that a business’s product/service has value to them and there is a “meeting of the minds” regarding that transaction, who is anyone else to dictate what someone can or cannot spend their money on.
Someone else may spend their money on an ugly Louis Vuitton purse where I spend mine on training or reinvesting in my business. I may consider the purse a complete waste of money, but it’s their money and their choice.
But after coming across the LettersToDaveNavarro.com site, I’ve been keeping an ear out on updates, and thus this site.
I don’t know what Salty thinks he has on them other than they sell info products and have friends in the blogging circle. (That’s another mindset that I don’t agree with, that if you have friends working together towards a goal, that it is somehow sinister. You can only get so far on your own. Any effort of any magnitude takes synergy and collaboration.)
But nothing can be worse than what was already done to their families . . . nothing.
It just sickens me, it actually makes me nauseous thinking about it.
It’s not just a tragedy for their families, it is a tragedy for Dave and Naomi as well. I haven’t followed her site in a long time, but I did in the beginning, and I don’t care what you say, she was good at what she does. I’m not familiar with Dave’s stuff, but I’ve heard the same of him.
This has ruined them. If you’re a shoe maker or a ditch digger, maybe your ethical decisions don’t matter in your work. But if you are a consultant, something where your *judgment* matters and plays a role in what you do, how can you *ever* expect to do something so sleazy and try to continue on business as usual?
Every decision you make plays a role in who you are. Character matters. And no matter how hard Clinton and his spin crew tried to say otherwise, you can’t compartmentalize your life.
This isn’t even a unique story. It’s so common it’s pathetic. And I’m sure that there are many people reading this blog that have done the same.
It’s just when you have a business, the stakes for your personal decisions are much higher. I used to work with a couple that had three very successful businesses. They divorced because one was screwing around, and in the end all that was left were debts and attorneys fees.
Adultery is *always* a bad idea, but if you have a business you can lose in more ways than one.
But on to the real reason for my comment and Naomi’s reference to the LettersTo as a “mean site.” THIS is a mean site, but there was absolutely nothing on the Letters site that was mean.
That whole site was out of love. I can only hope that if I ever went off the deep end that someone would care about me enough to knock some sense into me and tell me what I needed to hear like Dave’s brother has been trying to do for him.
I read almost every post on that site. Was there criticism in the comments? Yes, but I can’t remember one that I would consider “mean.” I think the harshest thing I read was one that said that people were avoiding them at conferences.
Just because someone doesn’t tell you what you want to hear, it doesn’t mean they are being “mean.”
That she would say that shows just how warped her perspective has become.
And as a final sidenote:
>>and really, no matter how cleverly marketed — THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES that a book will be successful or will make its author rich. <<
Connie,
That's really the key whether you are running an online or offline business.
There are a lot of ways to make money, but there is no magic bullet. As long as someone is thinking that there is and is always looking for a shortcut, they will never find success.
It takes a lot of hard work. The key is to decide just what it is that you want to bust your butt doing.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
@Carla ::
This is a nice comment :: and it bodes ill for Naomi’s little stunt.
Cause you no like me … but you no like them more.
PS …
Unlike the author and the majority of the commenters on this site, I believe in free enterprise, that everyone is free to set their own price for their goods and services and that everyone has a right to spend their money where they wish.
But you said you don’t read this site? You should probably read it a little more and make sure that your broad generalization is accurate.
[Reply]

Sheila Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
@Carla, it wasn’t until your comment that I realized what “Mean Site 1″ was. Now I kinda wanna throw up.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
@Shelia ::
Yep :: she’s calling out his family’s desperate plea for a return to sanity … “mean site 1″ … it’s pretty fucking extraordinary … even for this site.
[Reply]

Confused Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
@SD, and clearly the reason she did not link to either site is because then all her customers and fans would know what was really going on.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
@Confused ::
Yep :: but she said WAY too much … and that’s exactly what just happened.
[Reply]

Anna Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
@Carla, Free enterprise is not exactly “French for trade union”. And I’d argue that no matter what your profession, ethics do matter. How is that shoe leather being cut and sewn? Is the ditch the right depth and does it slope the right direction?
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Slowly Waking Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
@Anna, +1.
Also, visiting Carla’s biz site, it’s clearly aimed at small business owners who know what the heck they’re doing. This hints of ethics to me. Good on you, Carla.
But visiting the many, many biz-op sites featured on SD’s blog, they are clearly aimed at people who have no business running a business. Like me. They’re custom-built for newbies. While savvy capitalists look away, aspiring newbies throw away a couple years of their lives chasing unicorn lures. Ethics -100000
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]

Hart Scott Rodino Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
@Anna,
Yep. “French for trade union” may be Irwin’s definition. As it so happens, the Government also has some definitions for those types of conduct….
…”Price fixing”…
….antitrust…
….unsubstantiated claims….
….racketeering… etc
And the interesting thing is, when two or more members of an industry do something innocuous like asking “how much do you charge for x”….they are invoking federal jurisdiction (in the US of A) because of the inter-state commerciality that results from their domiciles in different states.
And these things that some of us call “laws” are intended to curb unethical commercial practices.
People are so caught up in the “don’t be negative” cult-like programming that they don’t see the obvious….
Members of this community are NOT anti-commerce, anti-free trade, anti-info-products per se. They miss the whole point. We’re against predatory (and other unethical) practices.
And we feel an obligation (founded in our outrage, or our ethics, or our personal or moral standards) to try to do something. We may be humble everyday people, but together we may yet make a difference.
If you could help to save 1 person from wrongfully going to prison for life….if you could help to save 1 person’s life…or if you could help to save just 1 person from financial ruin….would all of this so-called “negativity” be worth it?
Damn right!
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Grover Lembeck Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
@Anna,
I just want to thank you for showing some respect to those of us who have actually spent some time digging ditches (yes, by hand- a guy with a shovel can get into a lot more places than a backhoe).
It isn’t rocket science by any stretch, but a poorly dug ditch can cost someone their house. It’s also good, necessary work I’ve never been ashamed of doing, whatever scammers may think of it.
I do the job, then I get paid; that’s my motto. Now I’m going to hang out with my kids, which is why I do the job in the first place.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Thom Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@Grover Lembeck, There is no shame in honest work, and those who exercise their hands and backs contribute tangibly to society.
None of us would have a home, transportation, or the most basic necessities if it weren’t for those willing to make things move in the physical world. People who do so fully deserve respect and appreciation.
  +5
[Reply]

Glad I Was Broke Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 12:38 am
@Carla,
You said:
“I don’t usually read this blog, it’s just doesn’t fit in with my worldview and it’s not a mentality I want to spend much time around.”
and I say: perhaps you should read this blog first for a while before making such broad statements. Maybe your worldview is limited and does not see the whole picture. Maybe once you are exposed to atrocities committed by self-proclaimed self-help gurus, IM experts and like, your worldview will become entirely different. It may even be a paradigm shift.
I’m just sayin’
  +4
[Reply]

Doctor Mario Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 1:15 am
@Carla ::
You said:
THIS is a mean site, but there was absolutely nothing on the Letters site that was mean.
That whole site was out of love. I can only hope that if I ever went off the deep end that someone would care about me enough to knock some sense into me and tell me what I needed to hear…
To me, THIS is a site equally out of love :: A love of justice :: A love of standing up for the little guy :: And a love of making scammers squirm until the indictments are forthcoming!
This site is basically the only Labor of Love for all those who’ve been driven off the deep end themselves by the antics of these frauds…
The only reason it seems mean is its hilariously rude Robot writing style!
Thankfully, the injection of Funny into a situation that is otherwise so not-Funny is the Labor of Love that keeps us coming back here.
This is in stark contrast to the Labor of Love depicted in the LetterstoDaveNavarro site … which is a totally not-Funny experience … and sickens / pains me (and any sane person) to read this graphic glimpse at some of the grim effects this whole monstrous human-grinding machine leaves in its wake …
Btw :: Outlets for dissent & consumer awareness like the SaltyDroid are in fact a VITALLY important part of any true Free Market.
WINNER!! ::   +10
[Reply]

Anonymous Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 9:55 am
@Carla,
It’s interesting to read your take on it, because I reach the same conclusion through an entirely different path.
I really don’t care whether Navarro’s marriage broke up badly. Marriages break up all the time, and — unless he’s selling relationship advice — the private behavior of Navarro & Naomi isn’t important to me.
But if he’s selling snake oil, then it gets my attention. Ripping people off is a public act, and it’s completely appropriate to hold them up to scrutiny. SD has raised some serious questions about their business practices, and it seems they aren’t able to answer them.
Your approach may be better than mine. Or maybe the two approaches complement each other.
Either way, N&N are rapidly moving up on my list of people to avoid.
  +2
[Reply]

Rafael Marquez Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 10:19 am
@Carla,
Hi, I have to disagree with you when you say this:
Unlike the author and the majority of the commenters on this site, I believe in free enterprise, that everyone is free to set their own price for their goods and services and that everyone has a right to spend their money where they wish
At no point, anywhere on this blog, will you find any posts against free enterprise, or against people setting whatever price they want for their goods. What you will find, are lots of posts against cartels, against deceptive marketing tactics, blatant lies, blatant bullying etc.
Nobody here, myself included, is against free enterprise or against people charging “what the market will bear” or setting whatever price they want for their goods and/or services. The majority of us, are against scammers and their manipulative techniques. A lot of us have fallen for their manipulation and have “seen the light” so to speak.
Yes, people are free to spend their money on whatever and where ever they want. However, when people get scammed, or killed, by someone that manipulated them into spending all of their money with them, like outlined in the “Fleecing Debbie” post or in any of the James Ray posts. I personally have a problem with people being fleeced, killed or both so that some asshole “guru” and their enablers can make a couple of bucks.
  +6
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 8:05 pm

Sundog said:
Know what guys?
I love this site and I’m glad Salty is doing what he is doing, but if any of you are sending death threats around you are sick fucks, like James-Arthur-Ray level fucks. Indefensible. Just wanted to put that out there.
I hope the threat of Salty’s watchful eye makes the world a better place, but let’s not stoop to their level folks.
Muchly debated. What do you think?   +1
[Reply]

SD Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
@Sundog ::
Your obviously right … but that didn’t happen.
If someone had sent her actual threats then she could have grandstanded without the obvious lies and misquotes of me.
[Reply]

Sundog Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 6:15 am
@SD,
True. That’s reassuring, actually. I’m wary because of all the Anonymous drama, which made it easy to disregard their message.
  +2
[Reply]

_cartman_ Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
@Sundog,
come on guy…you think if she got “mass murder” type death threat she would just blog about it, or send it off to the proper authorities? She lied about content of “mean site 1″ she incorrectly quoted salty…she’s grandstanding, nothing else…
And lets be honest here…why would anyone send her death threats [[of all people]]…
coming around calling people sick fucks on obvious lies is fucking insulting.
WINNER!! ::   +8
[Reply]

Joe Reply:
August 29th, 2011 at 11:15 pm
@Sundog, No rational person would believe for ONE MINUTE that anything like that EVER took place. As both SD and Cartman pointed out, her obvious and gross falsification of the details indicates that she is actually playing up an agenda, not responding to any real event. She can furnish NO proof, because that can be easily proven false, and she is well aware of that fact.
As Cartman also pointed out, it was inappropriate form to make a negative, generalized comment like that (“Know what guys?”) in the midst of all the subterfuge foisted on this blog by conscienceless sociopaths. People who are fighting the good fight are here precisely BECAUSE they believe in adherence to society’s laws and moral and ethical standards, the same standards which many of those written about on this blog hold in such contempt.
  +6
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 9:44 pm

Aristoletes Italia said:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The truth:
!
LOSER!! ::   -8
[Reply]
# 29 August 2011 at 9:56 pm

Interested Bystander said:
Death threats are nothing new to the syndicate. A few years ago someone very high up in the syndicate issued threats of physical violence to an industrial design blogger who had outed him with substantial proof as a complete fraud. The blogger was telephoned in the middle of the night, shouted at, left abusive and threatening messages.
The blogger gave in to the threats, deleted his blog and gave up.
Watching a fraudster like Naomi use this story and apply it to herself is nauseating.
SD, please expose Naomi for what she is and please do everything you can to destroy the syndicate once and for all. They are rotten to the core.
WINNER!! ::   +7
[Reply]
# 30 August 2011 at 4:30 am

Dave said:
Methinks SD has hit very close to the mark. You can always tell when the defenses (I’m not a liar!) turn into offenses (they threatened me and are contemplating a hate crime!).
Saaayyyy SpiderBitch (@wow, @Idontbuyit), can’t you distinguish between hate and disgust? Not the same thing. Here, let me help you understand:
Hate: I hate the terrorists who kill innocent people.
Disgust: I am disgusted by con artists, hustledorks, scammers, and people who lie to make themselves look good.
Clearer now? It’s not often you see a spider caught in its own web, but I’m looking forward to seeing you caught in yours.
WINNER!! ::   +9
[Reply]

Cosmic Connie Reply:
August 30th, 2011 at 8:30 am
Yeah, what @Dave said. Now I’m headed over to read the next installment in The Spider Woman Saga.
  +5
[Reply]
# 30 August 2011 at 5:36 am

Duff said:
This made me LOL, probably because I’ve had the same experience of being condemned to comment purgatory whenever I have posted a relevant, intelligent comment that happened to include critical thinking on any of these kinds of blogs.
  +2
[Reply]
# 15 September 2011 at 3:56 pm
All roads lead to Ed Dale scams | eddalescam said:
[...] Dunsford to Brian Clark, Brian Clark to Kajabi, Kajabi to Dan Raine and Ed Dale and Frank [...]
  0
# 19 September 2011 at 6:49 am

Shameful Signals said:
I used to like Darren Rowse until I realised that he was a scam artist.
I used to like Copy Blogger until I found out it was a scam.
But I always used to think that 37 Signals and their SVN blog was honest.
Not any more…
http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3033-first-round-winners-basecamp-tell-a-friend-contest/
Look who just won an iPad. Coincidence or scam?
  +4
[Reply]

Sheesh Reply:
November 9th, 2011 at 5:31 am
@Shameful Signals, Wow.
  +3
[Reply]
# 9 November 2011 at 5:19 am
» BlogWorld 2012 – SaltyDroid KeyNote said:
[...] http://saltydroid.info/this-is-also-relevant-to-my-interests/ [...]
  0
# 9 May 2012 at 3:36 pm

YahBooSucks said:
In my innocence a few years ago I signed up to an email letter or something from a guy named Mike Filsaime. On copyblogger. Recommended by Copyblogger.
Then I received lots of junk email and woke up.
So I left a comment on CopyBlogger, thinking that Brian Clarke had also been duped into recommending this guy.
Brain kindly sent me a little email dissing Mike Filsaime, along the lines of, ‘There are always guys like this.’
Then he deleted my comment.
That didn’t add up.
Then a few years later I met The Robot and it kinda did add up.
But it took a long while to realise that dear Brian was a semi-psycopathic scammer. He seemed so NICE! And his story about his skiing accident was so HUMAN.
Then I read about psycopathic pity-play on the Salty Droid, and the penny dropped.
Full on psychopath. But so CLEVER!
Well done little robot!
  +4
[Reply]

SD Reply:
May 18th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
@YahBooSucks ::
Interesting.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Filsaime promo or post. Anyone have a copy of the email or archive link or something?
[Reply]
# 18 May 2012 at 4:00 pm

Phoebe said:
I like ProBlogger because he was always honest about how he made his money and how hard it was to make. he told bloggers that making money online was not some easy get rich quick solution.
The man made money with other websites before he made a blog about ProBlogger. I don’t get why people are on his case. Maybe it’s because rotten people are connected to him?
  0
[Reply]
# 24 June 2012 at 12:39 pm

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