Who do I like?


Happy Thanksgiving.

Not really.

Some of you aren’t even Americans … so whatever. Don’t go celebrating American holidays if you ain’t got the right. We’re the ones who exploited the lands and peoples of the New {to us} World … not you.  So keep your damn foreign hands off our meat based holidays. Especially you Canada … I better not smell any god damn turkey up there!  And no watching NFL football either {you can watch Rangers v. Man United on DVR like I’m about to do}.

“But Droids can’t be Americans” :: says a Nazi zombie … nobody ever listens to them.

But seriously {not really} :: who do I like out there? Who is good? Who knows the real deal about makin’ them Internet monies? It can’t be all scammers right? Who are the good coaches who are actually helping people? When will I start accentuating the positives? Who do I like?


Who do I like?

That question is in the comments of every other post :: and in my inbox … always and forever. I used to try and answer the emails :: and I still try :: but much less hard because I’m so bored of the answer. So now I’m going to start sending a link to this post instead.

Hi person who just asked me who I like … this post is for you. Sorry about the whole Thanksgiving situation … and how that doesn’t relate to the question you just asked me … but let that be a lesson to you for asking me a stupid question.

Not really.

There are no stupid questions.

Not really.

Anywayz :: who do I like?

I can’t :: and won’t :: answer that question. I am criticizing :: to put it mildly :: people’s products :: tactics :: and services. It wouldn’t be appropriate for me to start recommending people :: tying my interests to theirs :: jeopardizing my future objectivity :: and taking the first step towards the trap that they have laid for anyone not being mindful … a trap baited with easy monies.

I can recommend awesome indie rock :: or ladies shoes :: or Arizona Tourism {visit Arizona … it’s mind fuckingly beautiful} :: or cookies :: or post-transgender pants :: or whatevs {write me a huge check and I’ll make your whatever seem like the coolest whatever that ever was}. But I won’t be recommending any products or services that are even tangentially related the topic of discussion. Ever.

The fact that you asked ME :: of all the fake robots you could have asked :: means you kinda know the answer already. The thing you seek that you fear might not actually exist … doesn’t exist. Sorry about that … for realz I am. But it’s so hard to make money online … just as hard or harder than in the real world. IMO :: the vast majority of ‘make money online’ products are a complete and total waste of time and money {or worse}.

If you want to try and make a go of it on the web … then learn by doing … starting NOW. Doing is the only way to learn on a fast moving medium. And “doing” doesn’t mean selling an e-book about how to sell e-books {although that’s still better than buying one}. Go free/cheap until you’ve built something that’s worthy of financial investment.  That’s the cool thing about the Internet :: that’s the fucking miracle :: you can try and fail for free.

NO ONE can tell you how to succeed on the Internet :: because no one knows.

Now that we’ve got that out of the way :: I’ll answer the question as it wasn’t intended …

Who do I like?

I like the people around here who help me keep the trolls :: asshole sympathizers :: nutjobs :: and propagandists under control. I’m a badass and everything :: but I’d never be able to do it on my own.

I like people who help me understand what’s going on :: so I can be more betterer at my job.

I like turtles.

I like our friend @_cartman_’s videos about sub-moron Maria A. Andros … here’s a new one!

I like people who care about other people … and how many of them seem to be gathering here.

Happy Thanksgiving Y’all!


>> bleep bleep

166 thoughts on “Who do I like?”

  1. Great Post Salty!!

    The best advice for any type of business. “Learning while doing” nothing beats hard work, persistence and personal experience.

    I remember reading an interview of an old biz op scammer (before internet days) who used to put “stuffing envelopes” ads on papers. He said that greed and “something for nothing” is what makes people buy the “easy riches programs”. (Thanks God he didn´t say “I´m smart and they are retarded”)

    So people out there remember this: Salty is doing a fantastic job but we should do our part as well and stop buying crap.

    Happy Thanksgiving (but I will follow salty´s advice and keeping my foreign hands off the meat holiday by going vegan….)

  2. Hey Salty,

    Happy Thanksgiving to you too! :-)

    I think Andy Jenkins actually put it best in the recording you put up of him with Jeff Walker…

    He said something about people with “real businesses” being the only ones to buy stuff unless you position it as a magic bullet. It’s so true. I know (and work with) a lot of guys who do internet marketing for their real businesses… And their businesses really help people on a deep level, too.

    Ironically, these guys I know / clients of mine learn a lot from these scammers – and they turn a nice profit from their knowledge. However, real biz owners make up such a small percentage of these guys’ lists that it’s obvious they’re marketing to the noobs who don’t know any better – rather than experienced business owners looking to make a serious, well-researched investment into building their businesses.

    Thanks for provding such great content. Hope you and the wife enjoy your T Day.

    1. @Hai There,

      It’s the same in the fitness scamming industry too. On the one hand you have athletes. They may sometimes fall for a new gimmicky workout, but understand what it takes to maintain high fitness levels (hard work on the fundamentals) so usually don’t.

      Most products instead are marketed to the deconditioned couch potato who will endlessly purchase new equipment, expensive supplements with no active ingredients, videos, etc. in the hopes that this new thing will be “the answer.”

  3. lol… My pancreas hurts from laughing so hard at the video. You had me when the Unicorn was galloping. We live in a great time where we catch people on video all of the time lying (like Maria A. Andros).

    It’s sad that she’s told her lies long enough and that people actually believe them now.

    By the way, I’m all for anyone that is transparent, authentic, and value-driven to be able to make money online through their passion.

    The sad fact is, the majority of marketers like Andros are not transparent. In her case, it’s hard to tell if she’s really that dumb not to stick with the same lie or if she has a God-complex and thinks she’s untouchable.

    1. @MJ, it’s called compartmentalization or splitting personalities. It’s a common form of mind programming, either done by others or done to themselves in order to play out a specific role in front of people. In the IM community, that’s the first thing you learn ; “fake it till you make it” or “just set yourself up as an expert and you’ll be an expert”. They believe that it’s all about perceived value, thus they try to get people to perceive them as more valuable than they really are, usually through emotional manipulation. “If you’ve got them crying, you’ve got them buying”.

      Personally, I think it’s disgusting on any level, but the deeper a person goes, the more dangerous it becomes for others and for their own mental health.

  4. Happy Thanksgiving to you too Droid. Don’t dance in the turkey and dressing like you did last year and get your gears all gommed up.

    By the way, the dining facility on FOB Lindsey (outside of Kandahar Airfield) put on a tremendous feed for lunch today. Those of you with friends and relatives hanging out in my neighborhood, don’t fret, they eat well.

  5. Love the music box theme to the galloping unicorn, but aren’t real internet marketing unicorns pink?

  6. Without Mo Edu in the line up what chance did Gers have? And what’s the point of watching with no Yanks Abroad on the pitch?

    I blame this on Fake Secretary Debbie. She should have kept you up to speed on Edu’s injury.

    Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

    1. @Cromulent ::

      They had no chance with or without him!

      … and … it would be kind of hard to be a futbal fan if all you cared about was yanks on the field.

  7. Today’s Lesson of The Day: If you are going to lie, remember what you said!

    As a side note are this gals eyes 2 inches higher than they should be?

    She officially joins the Internet Markerting “I look like the back-end of a bus” clique: Andy Jenkins, Ed Dale, Eben Pagan, Howie Schwartz, Tellman Knudson… the list goes on and on.

    Feel free to out your favourite Geek Freak!

    People I think we have a theme here, inferior complex = take it out on the world via crap product launch BS!

    I rest my case.


  8. “NO ONE can tell you how to succeed on the Internet : because no one knows.”

    You hit with this one Salty.

    How do i succed on the internet? A wise man may ask in reutrn:
    What you mean little man?

    Maybe you can’t succed. Maybe the internet is not some place or indsutry where you “go” to “succed”. I mean, it’s not all hollywood and single great achievements.

    Maybe you have to do some succes in the real world first, maybe you don’t, maybe it depends upon the idea or business you are trying to realize.

    We talk about the internet as if we know what it is.
    “how can you know what the internet is?”

    Can you setup a relationship with 1000 online businesses and earn money from a global service system that continually improve those businesses and expand their possibilities?
    Maybe you can, who the fuck knows.

    “Internet marketing guru”, To feel compelled to use such big words to identify yourself is a joke!

    What if Frank Kern is just an annoying, loud, criminal cyber-salesman?

    1. @Mathias, “NO ONE can tell you how to succeed on the Internet : because no one knows.” “…You hit with this one Salty.”

      If someone tells you they can GUARANTEE you successs online based on their previous experience that they’ll sell you for a price, run away.

      But if an online marketing veteran says that they know the pitfalls of your online marketing and that they can shorten your learning curve by 80% and save you a ton of money and time by telling you what worked for them and what will likely work for you…

      Look up their references, check them out, check out customer/client feedback, and seriously consider getting them to help you if they seem really legit.

      If you don’t, because you have some absurd idea that you’re better off alone with NO experienced successful person to guide you and you believe that no matter what, then you’re kind of a fucking moron. Even Tiger Woods has a golfing coach. You think you’re above that? Best of luck to you, my friend.

      That doesn’t mean you should get sucked in by shysters, it means you should keep your eyes open for real successes that can help you and shorten your learning curve. Salty wants you to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and most people posting here seem to think that’s a good idea. Is it?

      1. @Billy Pilgrim ::

        “shortening the learning curve” is just some words made up by people who make up words. The learning curve is steep-getting-steeper … it can’t be shortened.

        And the point is … don’t “reinvest” imaginary profits. Most people can’t afford a fuckin’ golfing coach {or an endless supply of ass}. Start on a public course with your Dad … and see if you’re good at golf … maybe you’ll suck at it because one arm is shorter than the other. After you’ve put in your full 10,000 hours … and won some tournaments or something … start to think about taking it a little more seriously.

        Start out online by paying no one for nothing {except buy lots of books … and then sell back the ones that sucked}. Grunt it out til you’re done being stupid {this will take years}. Learning to find what’s already been done for free is the first :: and most important :: lesson an Internet n00b can learn.

        There is no baby … or bathwater … that’s just another dumb thing people say.

        Don’t buy stupid shit … that advice is so fucking great that quibblers sound like “fucking morons” … to quote someone you know.

        1. @SD,

          Your simple prescription of “read some damn books” is the best way for newbies to acquire the discernment that they need to avoid getting burned.

          The idea that everything you’d ever want to know is out there on the internet for free is cute, it might even be true, but it’s still not very helpful.

          Most of what’s out there “for free” is bad, wrong, and stupid. Most of what’s out there “for money” is also bad, wrong, and stupid.

          And what’s “free” is usually a lead-in to “paid.” Newbies who don’t know how to tell good from bad are the target of every predatory marketer out there.

          If they ever had to sell their stuff to real honest-to-goodness businesses, they wouldn’t know where to begin.

          Read books, people.

        1. @_cartman_,

          I guess I need to watch that one again. At some time or another, I think I’ve seen every or almost every South Park episode ever. But many of them I’ve only seen once so they don’t stick in my mind well. Gobbles seems familiar. I will watch it again soon.

          The South Park guys Matt and Trey are awesome.

          Furry cows moo and decompress.

  9. I imagined I was going to read this blog in outer space today and I did. So her “Secret” really does work! I still don’t see any money in my inbox though. If you find it can you let me know. I never thought I would get to see a galloping white unicorn though, so that was kind of a nice bonus – instead of all that money I imagined. The sign falling apart was a nice touch. I like the new title. It just seems to resonate with the content of the video. Happy Thanksgiving Salty!

  10. Happy thanksgiving Salty, and to all the good people here as well. We’ll be re-heating the leftovers from last thanksgiving as soon as my nephew, Junior, gets here with his ice scraper to help with the defrosting. Little known fact, did you know each year less people choke on cranberries than get ripped off by internet marketing d-bags? That surprised me, too.

    1. @Amelie Poostain, Hard to believe anyone would even buy a $1 ebook from him after seeing that pic. Wow.

        1. @_cartman_ and @Amelie Poostain, is Eben a, you know…, flamer?(not that there’s anything wrong with that (yes there is)).

          Unless that was a Halloween party, it looked like a drag queen party. Again, not that there’s anything wrong with that (yes there is).

          Since he teaches guys how to get dates with girls, that may be a little bit of a problem. ;)

  11. First I’d like to wish my American Neighbors to the North [[wait…sKcooling kicking in…Cambodia is North…sew…USA is not North]]…to the not-North…a Happy thanksgiving…especially those who are not granted the opportunity to be home with friends/family/loved ones [[South…that’s it…mama didn’t raise no fool…I was raised by my father…hmm…did someone just Chanel an insult my way…actually…I was raised by both my parents just like a rockhopper penguin]].

    Second I would like to thank Salty [[and everyone who contribute in various ways as well…comments, blogs, articles, tweets, links, etc. every bit helps]]…on the work being done. I have no doubt that what is seen in the foreground, probably pales in comparison to what transpires in the background…I think those who stumble upon Salty’s [[and others]] information early enough, have the ability to make a more informed decision….

    Also, those who gave me backlinks to my “secret” sites…thank you [[Cpanel its like all magical and shit…like the directory board of a mall…how does it know…it says “you are here” and it’s always right…I tried to sneaker up on it…but it always knows…truly black magickal!…I digressed again..]]…a special thanks to whoever did all the hard work of “advertising”…very creative… unfortunately “somebody” [[cough:Andros]] slightly thwarted your efforts…and some of those traffic-less pricks “complied” [[but no doubt you kept her busy for days]]…a lot of /wp-admin/edit-comments.php popped up…and I knew what was happening]]…

    Third…thanks for the feedback on the vid [[a special shout out to the brilliant animator who created the unicorn…he did an awesome job…keying it out was a snap….and working with it was a dream…it poops caviar wishes and pisses champagne dreams…NICE….I was going to have a hummer run it down…but knowing youtube…it would be pulled for excessive violence [[and then i’d have trouble with the SPCA…not to mention that I need them working on set of any virtual animal to make sure that no Animalation was harmed in the making of the vid]]…damn you you tube…damn you SPCA….As suggested, I was actually going to make the unicorn pink, but that would require frame by frame editing in photoshop [[my wife said no…well…actually….those weren’t her exact words]] since the unicorn is on a single layer the background would change to pinkish black and the background wouldn’t key out proper [[then it would just look uni-corny]]…rotoscoping the unicorn was not a viable option]]…

    It’s not my best work…it didn’t really embody Andros pseudo expertease well [[ie: crooked titles, slow speech, misspellings, a fake plastic look, totally cheesy inappropriate animations…that’s real art]] with things that scream…”I’m a video expert who has absolutely no clue”…but since it was an entry to her “CONtest” [[sigh…I lost]]…I had to do something that would draw the attention of her contestants…interestingly enough…23 entries left the playing field out of a total of 104…and based on the smell of her last “email”, and her new outrages guarantees and promises…I imagine that everyone’s effort is having its overall intended effect.

    Thanks to everyone…coming here to a group of phenomenal people [[99.99%]] who actually care, attempting to help their fellow human…always makes my day….and that is true value….

    1. @_cartman_

      Hi cartman, I am the person getting you links. I’m in the link building business I guess you could say, and as part of my work I have to do a large amount of test posting where the specific website I link to is basically an afterthought. I’m not really one for hunting down scammers or what have you, but I figured I’d do what I can to help you guys fight the good fight.

      I’m surprised and pleased that someone actually noticed my work!

      The links will continue to roll in for you and several other sites.

    1. @Neil, No I didn’t. I’m pretty fuckin sure I would have remembered that.

      @Salty, well done for beating the Huns. £250,000 well spent this week.

        1. @Neil,
          I know. This is one of the longest conversations I’ve had with myself online.

          BTW I thought we were more into Pulled Apart By Horses these days? Could you let me know when our taste changes? I’ll have to go and find out about Shellac now.


    2. @Neil ::

      I can see that you don’t need me for this conversation …

      I’ll confess that most of my current favorite bands are … wait for it … Canadian. Ugh! Not sure how that happened … but one must face the truth as it is …

      As for the specifics … I’ll leave that unsaid. Big checks first … then endorsements. I’m pretty sure that’s how it works {holds both hands wide open}.

      1. @SD,

        Listening to some Caribou right now:-)

        Pretty sure Canadian bands don’t have the big cash unless you are talking about Justin.


  12. “NO ONE can tell you how to succeed on the Internet : because no one knows.”

    How do you succeed on the internet?

    Well, now … how do you succeed at anything? Isn’t that the better question?

    What’s this idea that the internet is some sort of special, magical place where the normal rules don’t apply? It isn’t. The rules are the rules are the rules.

    And it starts with this: There is no step-by-step process for guaranteed success. Experts and mentors are nice (if you find the right ones), but some things you have to figure out for yourself.

    And it’s messy.

    Accept this: It’s messy as hell, you’ll be scared and not know what the hell you’re doing half the time, and you’ll stumble, fall down and embarrass yourself more than once.

    You’ll also make mistakes that cost you money.

    But these mistakes also buy you something–knowledge and wisdom born of experience.

    So fuck anyone who uses phrases like “surefire, step-by-step path to guaranteed success.” They lie. They don’t know shit. Fuck them in the ear.

    The better you get at something, the more you realize how many people out there who are doing the same thing are just fucking faking it.

    You don’t have to be the best. You just have to out-hustle the phonies, the incompetents, and the lazy-asses. Put in the time and you’ll get there.

  13. Oh, and the next time someone you’re close to has convinced themselves to buy some bullshit business-in-a-box product or jump into an MLM pyramid scheme *cough* Mary Kay *cough*, ask them this …

    So, they told you if you follow their steps, you’re virtually assured of success, right?

    Well, let me ask you something. Think of the thing you’re best at. I mean, the one thing you’ve mastered to such a high level that you’d consider yourself an expert at it.

    Got one?


    Now tell me, step-by-step how I can be guaranteed success at this thing, too. Can you do that?


    Well there you go, then.

    1. @Eric ::

      That’s very logical … which is why it probably wouldn’t help deliver someone who has fallen under the evil fog.

      So as a back up stratagem :: try this …

      Get right up in their face … way closer than is socially acceptable … and start screaming “DON’T DO THIS TO YOURSELF!!!” at the top of your lungs. Keep screaming until you nearly pass out. Then collapse onto the floor and start sobbing.

      That would be really hard to ignore :: boom! :: pattern interrupted.

  14. Frank Kern here. Just taking a break from swindling people out of their hard earned money to say “happy holidays” to you Salty.

    1. @Frank Kern, Hey Korn Kern-al, I hear you’re giving out your real number to anyone who buys the Frauduct from Brendan Douchard? And if they keep the whole frauduct for the full 3 months and do not return it, but think it’s a piece o shit, you’ll give them back $1000.00

      How nice of you Frank.

    2. @Frank Kern ::

      Thanks Frank.

      I hope you and yours truly enjoyed your holiday :: funded by the sorrow and losses of them and theirs.

  15. Maybe I’m tripping, but does anyone else see a horse when looking at Maria Andros? Her face and cranial structure are both unusually large, almost like a real life caricature. She’d be good character material for MADtv or some other parody.

    Best regards,

    P.S. Good job Salty and _cartman_on the video. Looking forward to more of your wonderful videography @_cartman_

  16. Great to finally have come across the Salty Droid. It has somewhat confirmed my suspicions all along. Saw a line in a Jeff Johnson salesletter or email the other day saying “I once had $454,000 week as an affiliate!” Give me a fucking break pal. Are people really THAT gullible?

    I guess, as the old saying goes, the bigger the lie, the more they’ll believe it.

    So here’s what Im curious about…Since I’ve never bought any of their “legendary” products (ie. Stompernet, Mass Control, PLF, et al) – here’s my question: Are any of these products actually worth the money? I mean, are they good? Do they render the education they claim to?

    All of those guys, for the most part, “seem” to know what they’re talking about. And their sales letters, videos, emails, etc. always appear to be pretty high quality productions.

    I’d just like to know, from anyone who’s ever bought any of the major guru’s products: is their stuff any good? Not that Id pay 1997 for it anyway.

    Love you animals!

    1. @Jimmy, Here are somerefund rate reports on syndiCRAP products:

      15% refund & 30% refund rates talked about in http://saltydroid.info/syndicate-scarcity/

      Some affiliate had once been claiming he had 70% refund on one of Don Crowther’s big socialmedia system in a syndiLAUNCH but is it true or not I can’t tell you really.

      But what I can ask to you now is if you made a product that had a 30% refund rate would you say “hooray for my good product”?

      1. @Jack, It’s even worse than that. Considering the large percentage of people that never get around to refunding due to their own inertia, those percentages are MUCH WORSE than they even appear.

    2. @Jimmy, Imagine if you took the $2,000 to $5,000 you might spend on some “guru” krap and spent it instead on books at Amazon.com.

      Imagine you bought the books USED, but like new (40-60% disount) and you read the detailed reviews they provide before you made your choices. So instead of just getting a handful of unkown CDs from a “guru,” you amassed a massive collection of say, 600-700 thoroughly-researched books, each written by a top authority. That would represent hundreds and hundreds of years of varied personal experiences and insights from a swath of verifiable experts, as opposed to the claims of just one self-proclaimed “guru.”

      Which of those approaches will yield more insight, solid information, and “bang for the buck?”

      1. @Chip, and @Jack, Wow. Thanks for your honest answers. Those are very high refund rates. Even if it’s 15%, which Im sure its much higher, that is still high.

        I guess that validates my hesitation to have not hit the buy button on any of these.Not that I would’ve on a $1997 products, but I almost did on a few $497 products.

        Thanks guys.

      2. @Chip, you wrote, “@Jimmy, Imagine if you took the $2,000 to $5,000 you might spend on some “guru” krap and spent it instead on books at Amazon.com.”

        Here’s my 45-Million-Rupiah plan to Do Better Than Shitty Guru Networking Lameass Conference Bullshit in La Jolla:

        1. Buy “Tested Advertising Methods.” Buy Wiley’s SEO book. Print out Google’s SEO PDF and instructions on how to do AdSense etc. ($50 + 10 for printing = $60)

        2. Buy a plane ticket to Bali (Korean Air from O’Hare, around $1400 for snowy February)

        3. Stay at a $25/night hotel for two weeks, $350.

        4. Read your two books and three or four printouts on the beach. Then enjoy the view! Eat delicious comestibles and talk to international travelers.

        5. Come back home tan, smarter, refreshed. Put your SAVINGS in the bank, because the whole bill comes out to less than half a $5000 bullshit guru “event.”

        6. You can profit from this plan even more if you replace #1 with “The Coming Insurrection” by the Invisible Committee.

        1. @Slowly Waking, great plan. And Im sure you are correct.

          Haven’t read those books, but I have read many others on advertising that I paid <$20 for. All the stuff these schmucks are pawning today is just rehashed (copied) from the old guys who lived & practiced it every day (Hopkins, Caples, Schwartz, etc.).

          Going to add these to my list of books to read. And bank the rest for a tropical vacation :).

          1. @Jimmy, good stuff. Remember point #6! And this one too:

            7. Read “A Thousand Plateaus” and get to a higher plateau of Success!


            1. @Jimmy,

              The other thread malfunctioned…in a very interesting way….that weird insert of @jamesray tweet was not part of my comment..

              1377th in the US??? Out of 900 bazillion websites, hers is #1377? Really??? Is that even possible?! What do you guys think?

              She actually sent an email regarding this also….

              Andros is actually misrepresenting what Alexa numbers mean and their overall importance [[and accuracy]] in calculating relative popularity.

              First and foremost Alexa rankings [[which are ranked relative to other sites]] are calculated in one of two ways;

              One is by putting code in the source, which track actual visits…that’s why Andros didn’t use it, it would drop her ranking by over 100K..and since she is all about misrepresenting her fake popularity…that wouldn’t be good.

              The other is by those visiting the site who are “brandishing” the Alexa toolbar. The nature of sales-rep sites [[and tech sites]], usually have a disproportionate amount of visitors that brandish the Alexa toolbar, and end up overstating Alexa rank numbers for that site.

              Why is she even mentioning Alexa when she has the following in her code…

              <!– Google Analytics Tracking

              Google tracking gives her total visits, individual visits, unique visits, etc. Yet the only figures she is stating is her Alexa numbers [[that in itself speaks volumes]]…

              So while the ranking numbers she is stating are correct, they don’t mean much of anything.

              If you give anything for “free”, people will check it out, you will get traffic, but that doesn’t mean that translates to buyers. A couple of the people who are “openly” claiming they are going to buy, are actually affiliates…so who really knows.

              If you check out the average time on site since the 11th is an average of 3.75 minutes, with a bounce rate of 50%…meaning that 50% of her visitors are going there and leaving immediately [[the bounce rate from the 23rd-25th went from 55%-75%]]…

              The other issue is that you have dozens of affiliates who probably login there multiple times a day that overstate the time on site…so real bounce rate is probably higher.

              If you look at her compete rank which calculates visitors [[but is equally skewed]]…she has a rank of 2.7Million [[267 visitors]]….hmmm….does that mean she only had 267 visitors…nope…it is definitely skewed…should we consider it a failure of her ability to drive traffic…sure why the fuck not….

              Her traffic ironically enough doesn’t come from social media [[but other people’s lists…epic fail]], so how the fuck she is going to teach anyone to get a “celebrity” like following is beyond me…

              Take a look at the data of her students [[alexa rank, youtube views, youtube views, youtube views]], and you will see she is a fucking false profit, who knows fuck all….

    3. @Jimmy,

      Saw a line in a Jeff Johnson salesletter or email the other day saying “I once had $454,000 week as an affiliate!”

      I think the best way to answer that question, is by asking the following question….

      If these programs work, why do these self professed gurus never utilize them, and only peddle them?…

      They don’t work…they sell people on the premise that they do work….and they make their money selling the premise, not utilizing it. They sound good in theoretical constructs, by people who may not really grasp just how misrepresented these constructs are….

      Let us use the false profit Andros [[it’s kind of her thread, so it’s only right]] as an example…

      Andros pushes her coarse for Real Estate Agents [[hint:it’s the reason she claimed to be an “investor”]]…so lets look at what “her” formula did for a female Realtor…

      A real life example…

      Fact – 2,900 searches a month for- real estate agent Los Angeles

      Connie De Groot [[utilizes Andros formula…cuz Andros formula is just…”the formula”]]

      Video uploaded June 10, 2010 – Total views 864

      View breakdown [[this is all that matters]]

      Aug 04, ’10 First referral from Google search – los angeles real estate agent – 11 Views

      disregard; Aug 08, 2010 First referral from – http://www.google.com [[this just means someone loaded the URL [[usually a bookmark/favorite]] after loading google.com – usually the owner bookmarking their video…this is also done by unscrupulous “SEO exspurt” [[if she didn’t do the video herself]]…and later used to show her how many “views” she got from google…then try and sell her on the new reason her video isn’t CONverting]]

      3.9 Months it ranked page 1 of google…total possible views 15.2K

      actual views from a google search – 11

      http://connietheagent.com/ [[alexa rank 22million+ almost no traffic]]

      page one of google for the term; real estate agent los angeles


      ummm…how is that possible…she’s a real estate agent…she has videos….follows the formula…seems personable…..she is on page one of google for a half decent search term…yet she isn’t getting clickthrough traffic…weird [[not really]]…

      Such a theoretically “sound” construct [[hahaha…I kill me]]…yet an epic Failure….wow…who’d a thunk it…

      I did this before with one of the most searched terms on the planet [[home based business…search if you are interested…I forget which post I commented on]]…I digressed again…

      The most successful people in their field…are not successful because of video..they have talent [[novel]]…they are NOT successful because they added “friends” on facebook….or because they have “followers” on twitter…or because they have a video…this is the biggest social media lie out there….

      Video is a medium….nothing more….the internet is a medium…nothing more…you can package shit and sell it, if you “create” its magical healing powers [[shout out Belcher]]…..they all just created magical shit….

      The internet and video [[for Andros and others]] are just mediums to commit fraud…nothing more…

      99% don’t succeed because they fail to commit the same fraud to succeed…and Andros is just an open fucking book when it comes to committing fraud[[that’s your opinion _cartman_….NO Andros…an opinion is something that can’t be objectively measured…it’s fucking cold out is “my opinion…you used Fraudulent tactics as I point out constantly is a fucking fact..thanks for playing, now get out of my head]]…

      Hope that answers your question Jimmy; And welcome!

      1. @_cartman_,

        Christ…I forgot to insert the question…now I just look stoopit

        I’d just like to know, from anyone who’s ever bought any of the major guru’s products: is their stuff any good?

        1. @_cartman_, HA! Nah, you don’t look stoopid. I knew what you were referring to.

          Pretty amazing. Like we need to spend $1997 to find out that uploading a video on YouTube with a few half decent tags and a keyword-rich Title tag will increase my Google ranking. Most 17 year-olds can tell you that.

          Nice breakdown on the results of that real estate agent’s video. I almost for bad for the little blonde girl.

          Good point about the gurus not using their own stuff. If your whole business is teaching someone to do something, it would at least be nice to know that the teacher is basing their instruction on methods they’ve used successfully themselves.

          What other businesses besides IM does she deal in? Im guessing none.

          Thanks Cartman, you’re a beast!

      2. @_cartman_, Interesting, your explanation of MA’a Alexa ranking. Yes, it wouldn’t let me reply to that thread, or your new one. Maybe JAR’s spirit is haunting you.;)

        And just the fact that her launch is still “open” after 17 days, says a lot. Most of them close much sooner than that if they’re a hit.

        $1997…ugh…no wonder this country is in so much credit card debt.

    4. @Jimmy,

      Since 2000 I’ve invested in many programs from the “gurus”, starting with the late Corey Rudl to Ed Dale (Underachiever & Dominiche), Irwin Frank Kern (Mass Control), Jeff Johnson (Various), StomperNet, Eben Pagan (GuruMastermind, etc) to name a few. Since 2000 I’ve built up, traded in and sold (3 times) various e-commerce businesses / site networks that also used direct response marketing.

      However if my customers didn’t really need my product I told them so to save their money. I sold physical products in various markets btw.

      I then later worked with clients from site builds to SEO, PPC and marketing, more recently writing a book and consulting more on the usability and strategy side and developing an e-commerce solution.

      So I had reason to want to stay on the cutting edge so to speak. What did this investment of a good 30K plus get me?

      My honest experience is:

      – Most of these “gurus” rehash information that has been said hundreds of times already, many times for free. The challenge is getting to the gold, the info that works.

      – Approx 10% is useful per product from this lot. The rest is “I like the sound of my own voice”.

      – A lot of the “inside secrets” become antiquated pretty fast. By the time these guys launches are done with and you have the product in your hands, 20% of the information is out of date and if you invest time, energy and money into it – well that equals negative ROI.

      – Most of the info is very basic stuff, with new names / terms made up to make them sound fresh and new. Eben Pagan / Kern take a bow.

      – The “gurus” all promote each others’ products, so in essence they are really just super affiliates hiding behind crap products of their own. That is their real business – affiliate marketing.

      Jeff Johnson’s emails make me particularly nauseous at present with the “Please help me win the affiliate race and sell the most products” and always with a disclaimer – every week it seems – “I never promote anything that I don’t believe in”. You must have a 72 hour day Jeff to get through all this info!

      Can you stoop any lower than this? Jeff Johnson AKA… A lying C*NT! All Jeff wants is more brass buttons in his back pocket. This Knobhead would sell Snow to an Eskimo. Maybe he has a really small c*ck, maybe Eben can tell us?

      – Like I said on Ryan Healy’s blog last week, these guys especially the aggressive ones who have ‘zero values’, like Matt “Fat Bastard” Bacak and Mike “Good God I’m Ugly” Filsaime – these guys are just your archetypal “BS car salesmen” peddling a concept in IM, they are selling you a result but with no real substance to get you there.

      – Are they ever transparent, what the hell are these guys actually selling? Most of the time you have to guess?

      – They position themselves as a business, yet you can’t even call a pre-sales team with questions, what kind of a business is that?

      – Don’t even get me started on their diabolical aftersales support.

      – Once you join they keep hitting you with an avalanche of info and videos, so you can never keep up. Especially if you have a job or business to run while you are learning. You’re head just spins so you keep investing to keep up with the latest “magic bullet”.

      So Unless you are starting from new with a big pot of money, lots of staff and a lot of time, I’d avoid any of these BIG gurus. Look at the smaller blog guys, like David Risley, Yaro Starak, Ryan Healey, etc, as a starting point.

      My Disclaimer: I have never actually used these 3 guys services’ but I genuinely think they offer value. There are of course others as well.

      I personally think their business models are great, very transparent, no BS bank statements suggesting they make $24 million in 24 hours (Hey StomperNot) and I think what they offer gives good honest value, where its a win win. AKA a business.

      3 quick reviews: (probably my 3 biggest investments from the syndicate bunch)

      Ed Dale – Dominiche – Cost at launch $3K. About 30-50 videos and 100’s of hours of Hot Air. I learned sod-all from this course and ended up selling all 3 of my businesses (actual genuine web businesses) each and every time from a £95 advert on BusinessedForSale.com

      Andy Jenkins & Brad Fallon – StomperNet – Cost $800 a month at launch. I learned more from the Stomping The Search Engines 1 & 2 videos (available for free on torrents and from sites like RapidShare) than from the membership. The backend when I was a member was schizophrenic, videos and content all over the place with no structure.

      Eben Pagan – I bought the lot, Guru Mastermind, Altitude, Modern Marketing, PrintPersuasion MasterClass. Honestly this is the best investment I’ve made aside from the SEO guys mentioned below.

      OK I know this guys’ dating products are suspect in that there are 5 or 6 billion people on the planet who never used ‘David DeAngelo’ material to get laid, so how hard can it be…

      But his internet and information marketing material is pretty good. Yeah he has a habit of banging on for hours and pulls suspect “experts” to talk strategy, but his actual online busines info is pretty good.

      If you’re into SEO I can genuinely recommend Jerry West, Dan Theis and Leslie Rhode, I’ve been part of these guys’ memberships and got great ROI.

      There you go Jimmy some real unbiased – actual experience and information for you. Anyone else feel free to document yours. IF you actually have invested and you’re not just posting on SD’s blog to stir up sh*t!


      1. @Juice, Nice summation man. Appreciate the candid answers. Funny you mention Ryan Healy. I like him also. Actually I found SD from one of his blog posts. Only listened to one audio recording from Yaro, but it was pretty decent info, about blogging.

        I also like Bob Bly, he’s been there & done that for 30 years and most of his products are 1. full of nuts and bolts (hardly any fluff, and 2. priced at $39. That is smart. He probably figures if he sells 250-300 pieces, he earns $10k, with very little aggravation (huge hollywood launches and all the shit that goes with it).

        Plus at $39, his returns are probably nil. And most importantly, he offers solid advice based on experience, not theoretical bullshit and promises of being an overnight millionaire.

        I will definitely take a look at Jerry West, Dan Theis and Leslie Rhode, never heard of them.

        Congrats on your success Juice, obviously you’ve made some decent income through building and selling your various web businesses…and that is awesome. At least you were able to overcome the money you spent on the guru products. A lesson most of us learn the hard way at one time or another, I have with real estate investing courses back in the day. Part of being an entrepreneur I suppose :).

        I hear you about Jeff Johnson…that recent Experts Academy affiliate promotion of his was a joke “help me beat Kern!” Yeah ok, d-bag, Ill spend big money just so you can beat Kern…what a USP!

        And “I once made $454,000 in a week” claim…cmon JJ, do people actually buy that? Again, the bigger the lie, they more they’ll believe it. Funny, he offered up no screenshots of his shopping cart account to back that one up.

        Thanks again Juice…you da man.

    5. @Jimmy,

      PLF is a nice concept and I found the course somewhat useful, got it from ebay. Wouldn’t have paid full price though and those who do seem to fall for the “My business is crap, I need this to cure it”-kind of marketing, when it clearly isn’t a business-in-a-box type of thing, but strategies to use to increase sales. If you don’t have any and don’t have a list, better buy a book.

      Mass Control is amusing to watch, but it’s more or less PLF & “Influence” mashed together, with a few of Kerns tactics which actually aren’t bad. He often makes up stuff as he goes though, and he probably wouldn’t even deny it. Still credit the program for some of my success, because Kern doesn’t seem to be a total prick. “In the land of the heartless, the half-hearted man is king” or something.

      Don’t own much of the rest, Video Boss seems to be worse than a basic video editing course for a hundred bucks and List Control seems to be just a basic course on list building with a much to high price tag, but that’s just what I’ve heard. Pretty sure it’s true though.

      I was surprised about a seminar with Deiss and Belcher though, it actually was pretty sweet. Think about the guys what you want, this time they taught a lot of useful stuff.

      Eben Pagan is a douche, and I’m about to puke every time he says he’s rich because he delivers value, but his marketing products are actually pretty useful.

      1. @Clark, cool. Smart to buy on eBay. Like I was saying, most of these guys “seem” to know what they’re talking about for the most part (at least on their sales pages & sales videos), with a few exceptions. But definitely not for the price tags they are asking! ;)

        1. @, True, and I just have to give Kern credit for admitting that he’s just rehashing stuff. One of my friends just brought me over a few tapes and Kern is like “This is totally innovative copywriting and I’m not teaching you anything you could learn from a $5 novel by Bukowsky”.

          If you wanna make money the cheap way, just follow Clark Jones’ ultimate marketing mastery genius model ($1997 value):

          1. Buy “Scientific Advertising” by Hopkins and “Ogilvy on Advertising” for creating ads. If you’re not completely confident, also buy “Marketing to the Affluent” and “Wealth Attraction in the New Econ.” by Kennedy, just to see how easy building new businesses is.($25-$60)
          If you have the money, also read “Breakthrough Advertising” by Schwarz (~$100).

          2. Find something you’d like to promote or better: Find someone who hasn’t any clue of marketing and team up. You’ll find a new friend, sell sth useful and make money, not the worst job. Can’t come up with anything? Make a list of stuff you like that you could a) sell in a smaller niche b) make more known c) make uniquely different. a) should be obvious, examples for rest:

          b) Most nerds know how to build low-cost 3D-printers. Most non-nerds don’t, but like toys. Find a partner who knows how to get these mofos manufactured, make the design a bit more fancy and sell ’em.
          c) Take a regular business and put it into a “new” market. Nobody knew how to price the iPad, because nobody knew what exactly it is. Netbook? PDA?

          3. If you have your idea, crunch the numbers and create the marketing before you create the product. Offer lower prices for orders in advance, once you decided to go with it.

          4. Create your marketing funnel, email pieces, videos, banners, calculate how much you can spend per customer, make a list of all media you can afford to use, design your backend, etc.

          5. You have a business!

          – You might not even sell “digital products”, so you actually do have something to hold in your hands and be proud of
          – You don’t have to promote some douche’s next launch
          – The FTC won’t take all your money away
          – If you want to teach marketing, you’ll have proof that you actually know what you’re doing (just don’t wear douchy shirts with shoemoney or sth similarly stupid on them plz)
          – Once your business is up, it doesn’t really take that much work to leave it running

          – You won’t be featured on this site (there is no bad press, right)
          – It actually takes like work
          – If you think a high refund rate is better, this method will probably disappoint you
          – You won’t be able to hang out with Tony Robbins and do fancy gymnastics together

          Or take the easy path, sell a video course about the next shiny thing (how about Total Internet Telemarketing Supremacy – TITS?), then sell another course teaching how you made $300k selling first course.

      2. @Clark,

        People, if you want any of these guys stuff for free just go to blackhatteam.com and do a search. Often you’ll find it within a few months of their 6figure launch days…you’ll find most of them are not worth their salt, lol, and thus the droid is doing a good job.

        I’m sure the video con formula will make it there soon too :)

  17. Finally a website that tells the the truth about all these snake oil salesmen, I just wish that these cocksuckers would not only get heavily fine by the FTC and do some jail time and get it in the ass from bubba!!

    Keep up the good work Droid we need more sites like this!

  18. You can actually succed on the internet, farily easy.

    I mean, there are games for this, they are called rpgs, you can buy one and hook yourself up online, then you train your character, takes some hundred hours and bam, you’ve achieved something

    A part cyborg, part human accomplishment, little weird maybe, but hey it’s a new age, a digital one.

    It’s succes, virtual succes, but it’s the same thing, almost.

    Just remember that business succes is not about getting to a new virtual level, aquiring upgrades, artifacts, and it’s not about buying stuff from virtual merchants.

    It’s business, not a happy virtual adventure, or science fiction.
    It Takes real ideas, communication, knowledge, strategical planing, persistence, and lots more.

  19. @Juice thanks for that summary. Tend to agree with you. The last time I spent any money on internet marketing stuff was when I ordered one of Ryan Healey’s e-books on how to get clients. The promise was big, but the let down was even bigger. He pretty much just told you to go to places like http://www.getafreelancer.com and http://www.craigslist.org and browse the writing sections for job offers. I thought “Duh, I’m already doing that, I hope you’re going to have more than just telling people to go surf on classified/freelancer sites.” Then, the other half of the pages were filled with how he prays and trusts god, and that this is the key to his success in making over 10k a month.

    Most of the craigslist.org postings are flaky, while getafreelancer.com or freelancer.com is all about third-world pay rates (think $5 sales letters), and many of the other freelancing sites mentioned in the e-book are not too much better. Since I’m an atheist, I didn’t appreciate half of the e-book being filled with religious preaching. I felt like I had paid someone to preach at me. That was the last time I ever bought any internet business product.

    To be fair, Ryan Healey does have some excellent posts on his blog and he does not charge a very big price on the e-books he sells.

    1. I appreciate your feedback, but your perception is a little bit skewed. Yes, I mention God in the ebook (or at least I did in the first version), but your statement that “half of the e-book [is] filled with religious preaching” is totally inaccurate.

      Yes, I list sites where I found clients in the ebook — because the ebook is about how I got my first clients. But it covers a lot more than that.

      That said, if you’ve been freelancing for a long time, and you’ve already got clients, then you probably won’t find much new information. The ebook is targeted at NEW freelancers. Hence, “How to Get Your First Real Copywriting Client in 14 Days or Less.”

      The ebook has been sold through Clickbank from the beginning. Refunds are always honored within the 56 day refund window. Just email your receipt to refunds@clickbank.com. Thanks. :-)

  20. Who does Salty like? If your nickname is Mr. BigDick, and you like hanging out (literally) at rest stops, then Salty would likes LIKES you.

    1. @Kern is my hero, Please, no children allowed here. Unless you are a 18+ year old complete dip-shit, than I retract.

  21. I just want to let you guys know that you’ve been a million times more loving, caring, and supportive than James Ray could even pretend to be and it really means a lot to my family. Every single life is precious, we all need to stand up to these despicable con-artists and make sure everyone we know is informed. No one should die at a self-help seminars, period and I hope we can all learn from this. I am extremely thankful for this site, thank you so much Salty and friends!

  22. So, uh… YAWN.

    There are always easy targets in the marketing world, and I’ll be gosh-darned if you don’t make fun of them. Aren’t you a special boy? There are also easy targets in the lawyer world, which you don’t seem to focus on, because:

    1) Lawyers are litigious

    2) Professional courtesy

    …So while your circus show here is certaintly entertaining, and you’re a talented comedy writer (this blog is high-larious, don’t get me wrong), I don’t buy your “I don’t endorse marketers” bit. I suspect you’re simply anti-marketing, period. Which puts us at a stalemate, because I’m anti-lawyer, period.

    Ball’s in your court, robot. (Checkmate?)

    1. @Billy Pilgrim, Pay attention Billy Bob: If the robot you are speaking of is anti- marketing, why does he allow marketers with integrity such as Ryan Healy to post comments here and not “Hate” on them? Balls back in your court pilgrim boy, ha!

  23. Heya Salty,

    Happy Turkey Day like… late! ;-)


    I’ll be “woman” enough to step up and tell you who I think you can trust online.

    I hope… but don’t hold me to any time limit on that. Another death in the family this morning, so it may take me a while. Feeling really old, because we have lost a LOT of family here in the past couple years or so. “they are dropping like flies” sadly.

    One thing that has changed on my end in the last couple years, is that I “DON’T HAVE” TO do anything I don’t want to online anymore. If I get anything done constructive, it’s a miracle – around our “real life”. I’m not pressed as much as I was before – so I have a different perspective now, than I did before.

    It also means, I don’t give a rats who thinks what about me… as a general rule. Don’t matter if that’s offline or on.

    If the husband shuts me down, that’s one thing – but I’m not out to win any online popularity contests right now either.

    There are a few folks I have followed over the years that deserve a “kudos” and not a “knock”. I’d be happy to tell you who they are in more detail, I’ll name a few here real quick for you to check into.

    People I like and will explain later on my overhauled, song ridden, neglected blog – are Willie Crawford, Doug and Teri Champigny, JayKay, Kevin Riley, Mike Whiz, Jeremy Gatica, Erin (netkickstart) – Judy K, Gina G Graves, Justin Brooke, Jason Moffatt, Russell Brunson, (yeah I have been through the “call center” and more than you know with Russ) David Schwartz, Ken Reno, Kathe Lucas, Richard Hunter, Big Mike, Paul Myers, and there are really – many more now that I think about it.

    Some I have seen “name shamed” here and elsewhere.

    There are various reasons for liking these folks, and there are reasons that some of us have “had issues” in the past too. I won’t be able to say that any one of them are perfect for any particular person to learn from, or that they are not without mistakes, because we ALL make mistakes – but I can give you the general rundown without being a “hater”. lol! ;-)

    Now that I have all cooled down and tried to think “objectively” – as if that’s possible. (Subject to change quickly of course.)

    One of these days I’ll update my blog.

    One thing I know, is that some people grow well – and some don’t. Some really do care about you and your welfare, some don’t. And it DOES take some real weeding out to meander your way through online “marketing circles” if you want to call it that.


    I will help your folks who are looking for someone they can trust as much as I can give info on that. I’ve been around for a while, and still hold hope in certain people to do the right thing – humans are funny creatures.

    I can tell you that I’ll do my best to be up front and truthful, hopefully without being an ass – and give you the stories as I have experienced them. Objectively, without getting all emotional on a day I happened to be particularly pissed off.

    One of these days… no time limits please.

    If others see things differently, it’s because they come from different perspectives, as we all do. I can still see fraudulent activity from people I like, and will mention that – “IF THE SHOE FITS!” (toy story) lol.

    You keep going after the “bad guys” meanwhile though, ok? ;-)


    1. @Michelle,

      I don’t recognize all the names but your endorsement Brunson and Moffatt makes me wonder if you’re one of those women who repeatedly strike up internet romances with death row inmates.

      Riley and Myers are Warrior Forum small fry in the big scheme of things and you can read more about both of them at warriorforumsucks dot com if you are still completely blind.

      You seem to be missing the focal point that NONE of them are good IF the entire premise of their “business” is pimping the equivalent of MLM vapor and/or ponzi schemes to people who will never recover their “investment” unless they perpetuate the scam to those lower on the pyramid.

      Does that mean that all people marketing on the net are scammers? No.

      Does that mean you can’t make money on the internet? No.

      However, you need to be able to tell the difference between pink unicorns and real businesses.

    2. @Michelle,

      . I can still see fraudulent activity from people I like

      uh huh

      Some I have seen “name shamed” here and elsewhere.

      uh huh

      I will help your folks who are looking for someone they can trust

      uh huhhhhh

      ummm…yeah…last I looked this isn’t a recommendation blog…

      that said…considering the nature of this blog, and you putting your personal “likes” above fraudulent activities…one would have to question if these personal likes would stop a “personal” recommendation…and if you would put your personal likes [[which may have financial benefit to yourself]] above other people’s financial well being.

      Even if this was a “recommendation” blog [[which it isn’t]], you’d be the last person “I” personally would listen to…now if others want to choose you as their “pied piper”…well…that’s their decision…but other then a few trolls [[you’ll like them..they are house broken]] and some proteges you won’t find much acceptance of your “goodwill” here…

      1. @_cartman_,

        Personally, I don’t like fraudulent activities or the fraudulent frauds that engage in such. But, you know, that’s just me.

    3. @Michelle ::

      Your list contains AT LEAST five people who are :: objectively :: total and complete frauds. I recommend that you get out of the recommendation business.

      I mean Brunson … are you seriously? Even the badguys think he’s crap.

      1. @SD, I think maybe she must mean about that he is at least up front that he can teach you to trade crap for value like with his $800/month linking program to teach you how to trick people to give you real links in exchange for fake ones.

        1. @Jack, Salty, and others above…

          yeah, this is why the hubby tells me to just hush and get to work. :chuckle:

          Sometimes I’m not real great at explaining things.

          Personally, I have deleted every single one of my websites except like 3 – one is a local portal for my hometown, one is a stock site, and the last being that damn blog. Just tossed songs on that for now.

          Why? Because I’m reworking my entire business, need a fresh start, and need nothing online that I’m not 100% sure of.

          Everything needs picked through with a fine tooth comb, which includes images that were purchased in good faith – that can’t be “proven” to be “legal”. If it doesn’t have sufficient “proof” of legality, it can’t be used.

          Likewise, if I’m blabbing through emotional outbursts on a goofy blog somewhere – that doesn’t help anyone either. Who cares, right?

          No, I am NOT recommending Russell (can’t anymore) nor would I recommend anyone that I think would hurt other people intentionally. It’s really a long story. And confusing as well, so – take that for what it’s worth.

          I first dealt with Russell way back in 2005 – when things seemed to be a whole lot different. He changed his business a LOT since then, seriously. I’m not sure if any of you knew him 5 years ago, if you have ever talked to him on the phone, etc – but he was a very funny, and nice person back then.

          Maybe you are all right, and nobody I mentioned above (people you heard of at least) have any kind of morals, nor do they care about others in any way shape or form. I don’t think that’s the full story however.

          Some started out great – then through greed, indifference, whatever the case… turned to the “dark side.” heh.

          This caused me to get far away from “IM”, at least a year or two ago. I hadn’t updated or deleted any sites to speak of, because none were scamming folks anyhow – but I was starting to get upset/disillusioned, MAD!

          As most folks do when they start to figure some things out that don’t seem to add up, right? I don’t exactly know why I bother sometimes, other than I think people need “full stories” to go on. There IS good with bad. Not every single person listed here is a total suckwad, many obviously are, but still.

          There was a reason Salty started this blog – and I think he has super reasoning for it. But he never claimed to be running around in IM circles either. I HAVE been right in the middle of a few circles, so I can also see the actual people involved from the point of view of working/talking with them.

          It makes a big difference when you work with someone for a year or better, you get to know their personalities, you better understand their reasoning I guess. I don’t know how to explain it.

          And no, that doesn’t mean I’m saying I understand their reasoning to scam, fraud, or otherwise hurt people – refuse refunds and the like. I have never agreed with it, and still don’t.

          Instead of saying I can recommend good people, maybe I should just state my personal experiences with the people I have known online over the years and let others make up their own minds.

          Would that help or hurt anyone? I don’t know if it would or not. Is it worth the time and effort? Probably not, as no matter what someone does it can be taken about 15 different ways.

          Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut. Hmm – good idea! Apparently something needs said – or I wouldn’t want to run my mouth anyhow.

          Someone DOES need to do some research, and build a site that will give others some ideas on who they can actually learn something from without getting taken for a ride. There are decent people out there – and no this isn’t the blog to put them on.

          Doesn’t have to be me – since my 5 years of experience is probably not good enough.

          Maybe I should have said I “LIKED” certain people before – but won’t deal with them now, and that THESE are people I STILL talk to, etc – sorry for the confusion.


          1. Lurkers: please examine Ms. Brouse’s posts here as a case study in self-deception.

            I’m not sure what it’s about. I would venture that she’s not either.

            I don’t think she posted in bad faith or is a bad person. But if you’re “trying” IM and have these kind of rambling, empty conversations with yourself or others, please step back and open your eyes a little.

          2. @Michelle Brouse ::

            “Someone DOES need to do some research, and build a site that will give others some ideas on who they can actually learn something from without getting taken for a ride.”

            Really? I don’t think so.

            Learn what?

            Thing is Michelle … you’re only half out. I can still hear them in there … scraping on the insides of your brain.

            Fraud is a horrible crime. A very horrible crime … much like rape. Not only is the event itself very harmful and traumatic … but the subsequent loss of faith and trust can last a lifetime to devastating effect.

            “Yeah he’s a rapist … but when he’s not raping I really enjoy his company.”

            People who do these things cannot be tolerated … in any context or circumstance.

            1. @SD, Yeah, you and Hal are right.

              Hal says – “However, you need to be able to tell the difference between pink unicorns and real businesses.”

              That’s a tough one there. Can be a very fine line and what you think is a real business, was actually too much smoke and mirrors. I thought David Crowton was a great guy for a while, with awesome ideas – boy was I WRONG! I’ve been sapped like that a few times. Put too much faith in other people or something.

              You say – “Thing is Michelle … you’re only half out. I can still hear them in there … scraping on the insides of your brain.”

              Never thought of it quite like that – but you hit the nail on the head there. Almost like being brainwashed, or feeling sympathy for your kidnappers. Some kind of syndrome – forget what it’s called – where the victims end up somehow being ok with being victimized.

              And good points also SlowlyWaking. It’s like being in a black hole. I have made a lot of money online, so I know I can do it (without scamming anyone I might add) – but I have just uprooted every single thing that took me essentially years to accomplish.

              All I knew is that I had to get away from the CRAP!

              Now I’m at nearly a total loss. Gotta do some “unlearning” and more evaluation apparently. All I really want to do is help other folks out – so… maybe one of these days I’ll be able to do that without driving myself nuts.

              Doesn’t help that we’ve had a lot of stress with deaths and whatnot – so to say I’m totally confused, irritated, and basically sad about a lot of things is an understatement.

              Well, think I did the right thing by listening to the husband, “shut up and get busy”.

              So for now – guess that’s what I’m gonna have to do. ;-)

              Thanks all! You’ve been quite helpful. Hopefully I’ll settle down, get my shit back together – and be plugging along soon.


  24. Let me share a little sickening JV emai from Miss Andros herself:

    If you can get to the end of it without throwing up I applaud you. I didn’t.

    So…… how many of you guys were wondering how many dicks she had to suck to get this many guys in the inner circle to mail for her..

    Sorry to be crass usually I’m much more of a lady but this dirt bag really gets to me and I hope this blog stops as many people as possible from buying her crap.

    Hey it’s Maria,

    I need two minutes of your time, there are important new Launch closing
    dates and re-open dates + WEBINARS being held with me live, this week.
    Plus a BONUS Video Conversion Formula LIVE in LA event, that I’ll be
    announcing shortly for your customers. (Value $5000) You know me I love
    to throw parties.

    We also have a rolling 4-day cycle launch for you that’s converting
    really well and you can still get your customers to the free line videos
    to get them ready to buy. Or you can mail straight to the sales page.
    It’s up to you.

    I hope you had a happy thanksgiving day weekend. I have to say something
    before we continue. I have never felt more supported, a bit heartfelt
    THANKYOU for your amazing contribution.

    This launch has already blown my mind and we have new customers joining
    as we speak from all over the world thanks to you.

    My promise to you is this…

    I will take care of your customers. Nothing I do is done half way,
    because I am a perfectionist to some degree. I want our customers to
    feel like what they’ve paid for will be multiplied in value in their
    business 10x fold and 100x fold.

    Our NEW launch closing date will be MIDNITE Monday, Dec 6th, before the
    program’s doors open officially on Tuesday Dec. 7th for our first LIVE

    I will email you with last minute swipe, not to worry. Be on the lookout
    for my emails.

    We will do a quick 2-day re-open on Friday Dec 10th and Saturday Dec

    I’m also doing webinars and teleseminars with Eben Pagan, Brad Fallon
    from Stompernet and other partners this week.

    If you would like to do a webinar and you have almost 500 optins+ or
    more, please email my team and I at maria@mariaandros.com to see how we
    can fit you in. It is on a first come first serve basis because of the
    launch being live. We would love to help you convert your customers and
    do a live Q&A.

    Here are the leader board standings and your swipe below:

    TOP 20 VCF Heroes and Heroines standings: (congrats to all the ladies
    showing up on the leaderboard and showcasing their super powers)
    Gentlemen this is the first launch I’ve seen this in, show us what you

    There’s still time to mail and catch up all it takes is a email. You
    can still mail to the free video series we have a rolling launch set up
    where you can mail to video #1, 2 or 3 or to the sales page. Please
    login to your affiliate center for swipe.


    TOP 20 VCF Leaderboard

    The battle is getting fierce where really anyone can take the lead and
    win our amazing prizes in the TOP 10. We have one more week guys and
    gals get ready to score!

    1. Gideon Shalwick -(still holding first place but Jeremy Shoemoney is
    right behind trying to claim the #1 spot after mailing and from sales
    made this weekend)
    2. Jeremy Schoemaker
    3. Christian Mickelson
    4. Rich Schefren & Brian Johnson (Strategic Profits)
    5. Mike Filsaime
    6. Andy Jenkins
    7. Alexandra Kalogianni
    8. Sharla Jacobs
    9. Lou Bortone
    10. Katie Freiling
    11. Brad Fallon (Stompernet)
    12. Yaro Starak
    13. Joel Therien
    14. Eben Pagan
    15. Perry Lawrence
    16. Jena Laflamme
    17. Josh Rimer
    18. Tyrone Shum
    19. Jeff Johnson
    20. David Riklan (Self Growth.com)

      1. @_cartman_,

        I’ve watched her since she was an MLM idiot and have always
        despised her style or shall I say lack thereof. I honestly think the only reason these guys are bothering to mail for her at all is because of this blog. They are trying to make her the “token woman” god knows there aren’t any on the IM niche that they have any interest in mailing for so.. they mail for her now to try to defray the syndicate claims.

        The pretty little fantasy land they all live in of high dollar launches and raping customers is going to come crashing down and I’ll be one very satisfied woman if I can help that happen sooner than later.

        1. @Pixiefairies,

          Here’s the invitation for the webinar…it’s funny

          Hey it’s Maria,

          I want to personally thank you for watching my free video training series. It’s been amazing to see the thousands of comments from all over the world. Over 100, 000 people have now watched the videos, and they’re saying, that they’re the best marketing videos they’ve ever seen. GOOD NEWS! I’m giving you a rare LIVE webinar that won’t cost you a penny.
          Check it out:


          One thing you need to know is I NEVER do webinars, and I’ve had people almost beg me to do some live Q&A about video, the VCF program, and how I do what I do…

          On the webinar we’re going to talk about:

          > The strategies to create powerful high converting videos and how MOST people who are doing video now are barely scratching the SURFACE…

          > The impact that a powerful, persuasive video strategy can have on your business’ bottom line (and your own bank account, too)!

          > The proof that you don’t need super-model good looks, or super-genius script-writing skills to create videos that CONNECT powerfully and deeply with your prospects…

          And in the case of video, Connection = Conversion!

          Just register for this exclusive live webinar I’ve put together for you here:

          Remember, I can only get 1,000 people on the Webinar …and it’s on a first come-first served.

          Talk soon,

    1. I just looked out my window to make sure the lights in the church across the street were out before I said this, but MY OH MY, is that dumb bitch illiterate!

      1. @SD,

        what a sad bunch.. even the MLM losers like katie frieling
        are mailing for her garbage..

        I can’t wait to see what her refund rate is going to be
        it’s now 30%+ on all the launches so I’m gonna say that nitwit
        tops 40 she sure as shit does not have anything worth 2K to teach

        1. @Pixiefairies, What this list suggests to me is that sales must have been pretty disastrous.

          Take Alexandra Kalogianni at number 7. A quick search on Google shows that she doesn’t have a website. In addition, neither of her Twitter accounts – http://twitter.com/maxyourself/ and http://twitter.com/alexkalogianni – have a link to a personal website.

          Also, on this video (1:10 mins)- http://vcf.strutta.com/entries/91088#91710 – she says she wants to create her own internet marketing business, suggesting she doesn’t have much of one already.

          The conclusion from all this is that she can’t have a big list – so coming in at number 7 on the VCF leaderboard indicates low overall sales for poor Maria.

          1. …And watch her weasel out of actually delivering her big affiliate “prizes,” like that promised trip to Bali, among other grandiose prizes. (I’m only mentioning this because I’m a perfectionist to some degree.)

    2. adding value [add-ing val-yoo]

      1) In mental health, a curious affliction causing the patient to literally ‘add’ arbitrary $-figures to one’s speech or writing.
      “My mother once gave me some advice (value $7865.32) on relationships.I don’t remember it.”

      2) In maths, the process of adding $1997 to the price of an item to determine its true value:
      “Price + $1997 (adding value) = True Value”.
      Believed to be the last discovery of Pythagoras.

      3) Famous words, spoken by Jesus in the Gospel of Gnome.
      “Go forth and add value, but only to those that pay!” (Is this right? Ed.)

      4) In speech, a colloquial form of punctuation, specific to the Greater Los Angeles area.
      “I was just, like…hanging out with some friends..you know..adding value…like, we were just talking, and..like..adding value and stuff.”

      5) The original title for the novel ‘The Catcher in the Rye’. (This is getting dire. Ed.)

      6) In warfare, a chant recited by an ancient tribe of internet warriors to block out terrible happenings on the battlefield. A powerful form of denial.

      7) The process of taking one paragraph and filling it out into seven or more, normally by adding ludicrous untruths or simply repeating the same information in a different way by filling into seven paragraphs what started as one paragr.. (That’s enough definitions. You’re fired. Ed.)

    3. @Pixiefairies,

      Didn’t The Gnome make some sort of pledge to only pimp genuine pink unicorns of REAL value?

      Somebody should call Mike Young to let him know about the impersonator in slot #5.

    4. @Pixiefairies,

      This makes no sense to me:

      “I will take care of your customers. Nothing I do is done half way, because I am a perfectionist to some degree. I want our customers to feel like what they’ve paid for will be multiplied in value in their business 10x fold and 100x fold.”

      Are they “your customers” or “our customers?”
      You can’t be a “perfectionist to some degree” you’re either a perfectionist or you’re not.
      Will it be multiplied 10x fold, and then 100x fold?
      What’s an “x fold” anyway? What’s the value of “x”?
      How is something multiplied “in” value “in” their business? What happens if you don’t have a business, but just an expensive hobby?

      I’ll stop now.

      1. @Rafael Marquez,

        that’s “10 times fold” and “100 times fold”….she says it in some of her videos, cuz she’s a perfectionist

    5. @Pixiefairies, too bad she didn’t post the number of sales next to each name. Who knows what the figures are? Either way, Im sure this airhead is making some sweet cash, while banging people @ 2k a pop.

      Gideon Shalwick is from Australia and specializes in Video blogs, I guess the mates over their haven’t been enlightened by the Queen (Andros) yet.

      The godfathers of the syndicate, Kern not on the list? And no Koenigs, the video king? No Jeff Walker? Maybe they get a flat percentage of her sales for consulting fees?

      I’d like to see what’s inside her course, just to see what she’s really delivering for $1997. If she sells 1000, that’s a million cash in her pocket AFTER affiliate commissions.

      And that is just flat out f*cking sick that someone who has no other business but teaching people stuff they don’t even use themselves, can make that kind of money.

      1. @Jimmy,

        Most drug dealers aren’t users either.

        They too make great money until they go to prison or knocked out of the biz.

        1. @Hal (the original Hal), well Ill be a salty-eyed son of a bitch…I never thought of it that way. Great analogy.

          Here’s to Pablo, Tony Montana and Maria A.

          @Rafael, that was hilarious. A “perfectionist to some degree”, priceless.

          And one more: “I want our customers to FEEL like what they’ve paid for will be multiplied in value…”

          So, she just wants buyers to “feel” like they’ve gotten a good ROI on her course, not actually “achieve” a good ROI.

          I guess ‘feelings’ are reality.

          But then the that reality becomes real reality when the credit card statement comes in, and that little rational guy on your shoulder pulls on your ear lobe, leans in, and shouts “SUCKER!”

          Then and only then, will you know that you’ve truly been had. :)

      2. @Jimmy ::

        No way she’s going to do a thousand units … that’s crazy talk.

        And if you’re not smart … or you’re not sharkish enough … then the “costs” will be much more than just the 50% commissions.

        – affiliate manager
        – launch manger
        – copyrighter
        – video
        – tech
        – etc.

        Shit rolls downhill … but dirty money rolls uphill.

        1. @SD, Good points SD.

          Wonder if Koenigs, Kern & GroundWalker are doing the launch for a percentage of sales. Thought it was interesting that none of them were on the affiliate leader board.

    6. Tyrone Shum – this douchebag did a video blog back at Christmas saying he’d found Jesus and had to come clean – he really wasn’t earning six figures online like he said he was. He’s subsequently removed that update, he must have lost Jesus, how very careless of him.

      That’s a who’s who list of douchebaggery, Jeff Johnson must have mailed to one of his subsegment lists as those muppets seem to buy anything he pitches. He tells about the great value he gives his lists but I stay on them waiting in vain for the day he sends something that doesn’t involve him getting an affiliate commission.

      1. @Crabby Paddy,

        “He’s subsequently removed that update, he must have lost Jesus, how very careless of him.”


  25. Can I tell you how much I love the fact that Salty is on the first page of google when you punch in Maria Andros.

    LIES LIES LIES Ms. Andros

    Maria has a favorite saying.. ” I’m going to stand here in my integrity”

    Who the fuck is she kidding… WAIT it’s ok she’s just as deluded as the rest of them and has done a phenomenal job of convincing herself she is a “teacher”

    What she is is a thief and a liar that openly admitted ( ok well to someone I know) buying views on youtube to get her videos ranked. Her clients are pathetic and her business is a sham

    Would someone at the FTC please go crawl up her ass… I’m tempted to buy the course, refund and then contact the FTC to file a claim and get her shut down.

    Too much effort but still fun to think about.

    1. @Pixiefairies, You know when you have to tell people that you have integrity, you probably have none. If you have it, you don’t need to tell people you have it.

      Just like when athletes say “its not about the money”, its about nothing but the money. George Young, the former GM of NY Giants said this, not me :).

    2. @Pixiefairies, maybe she thinks ‘integrity’ is some sort of branded nightwear…so she’s in fact telling you she’s standing there in her nighty. Or something like that.

      Who knows.

  26. Andros then and now….. some places her past got worse…some places it got better.

    Andros then [[July 19, 2009]]

    then I proved them ALL wrong when in less than 10 months I made over $100 000 with no adwords or expensive advertising, being a complete beginner with no technical background online.


    Andros now [[Nov 30, 2010]]…

    By following the Formula, in a year and a half, I was earning a 6 figure income;


    Andros then…..

    Within her first 2 months online exclusively she generated $12,987 in sales and then continued to build a six-figure income.


    Andros one week ago copy 1 [[and now Nov 30, 2010]]….

    Within her first 2 months online exclusively she generated $500,000 in sales online with simple video.


    Within her first 4 months online she generated almost $500,000 in sales online with simple video.


    1. @_cartman_, This is pretty awful. Goes to show one thing…two really. One, she makes it up as she goes along, just like Kern does at his seminars.

      And two, she tells lies to her customers and prospects.

      You know what they said about being a good liar – it’s hard to keep your stories straight.

      Then again when you’re lying to people who believe what they want to hear, I guess it’s easy.

      So much for “standing in her integrity”!

  27. A fool and his money are soon parted”

    I wrote this for my blog, but it contains an invitation, so I’m emailing it too.

    Here’s an email I got from Drayton Bird today, similar to Salty Droid warnings…and guess what? He mentions THE Salty Droid! And I think he says is with fondness too :). See the 3 bullets at the end, sounds similar to what is said here on SD. Rock on Bird man…

    Below is a copy of Drayton’s email:

    The internet is a bit like the Wild West. Very little law and order – and too many killings made by unscrupulous rogues.

    Here are three pretty infallible signs of a likely rip-off.

    1. The phrase: “My good friend”.

    2. A ludicrous promise only a half-wit would believe.

    3. Illiteracy.

    These are usually accompanied by the word free – which invariably leads pretty soon to a request for money

    A good example comes from Mr. Melvin Gonzalez who wisely distances himself from the long reach of the law enforcement agencies by living in Ecuador, home of brilliant business breakthroughs.

    He says “My good friend Paul Lynch as (sic) just created an AMAZING FREE Training that shows you how he can turn just $5 into HUNDREDS within 60 minutes!”

    This leads to a squeeze page with a video explaining how Mr. Lynch wants to “give back to ordinary people” … and a promise of 1,000s of testimonials (there are actually 32).

    You may well wonder how Melvin and Paul Lynch came to be such good friends. Paul – from his accent – lives somewhere in the North of England, whereas good ole Mel is safely ensconced just over the border from Peru.

    I went to look up Paul and found a site called http://www.just2help.co.uk full of misspelt stuff. If you want to know where not to go in the next few months their list of events is probably a good guide. It features the kind of people regularly flamed on The Salty Droid (a site that exposes internet scamsters).

    This dodgy stuff works because of three things:

    1. People believe what they want to believe

    2. The world is full of ill-educated, desperate folk

    3. The techniques these people use are as a rule extremely good; you can learn a lot from them.

  28. Don’t sleep on Perry Marshall. He doesn’t work with newbie’s, only with real business people with real money and real budgets. He has a post for newbies titled “Pink Lemonade” or something like that where he warns of the Make Money Online crowd.

    As for other IM folks, just use their free content, it’s usually as good, if not better than their paid stuff. Despite what people say about Ed Dale, I did learn a lot about SEO from his 30 Day Challenge in 2008. I signed up for HostGator hosting via his affiliate link which I think pays for the education I received from him.

    I’ve paid for an SEOBrainTrust membership with Dan Thies and Leslie Rohde (formerly from StomperNet) and while it was expensive, they have grown-up business owners as members… and they know SEO inside and out.

    If you want a great internet marketing education read these free blogs:

    1). DoshDosh.com

    2). WinningTheWeb.com

    3). ViperChill.com

    The first two are no longer updated, but have tons of good information. The point is that unless you’re willing to spend a ton of money to market online, “content marketing” is your best bet to building a name for yourself.

    1. @Raza – TheCoffeeMakerStore, how much do you net per day/month/year? How much do you work per day? You’re here of all places giving business advice/linkbuilding, I had to ask.

      Also, “He doesn’t work with newbie’s, only with real business people with real money and real budgets.” So why did he gladly take my money every month without qualm?

    2. @Raza – TheCoffeeMakerStore, I must say, and this is definitely not a typical SD type of comment, but it kind is…

      That viperchill site has more detailed info on SEO, PPC and affiliate marketing than any of the guru bullshit 4-figure “coerses”.

      Which goes to the point of what this blog is all about: You can basically find the same information, and acquire the same education, on IM, for basically free, that you would pay these assheads $1997 for. I truly believe that.

  29. @Slowly Waking

    Fair questions. I usually would NOT voice my opinions about internet marketing here. But the topic of this post lends itself to that… kind of.

    1). I’m still in the red on the site, but I spend a few hours/month on it. In the beginning it was a blog about coffee related topics that I worked on every day. After a few months it ranked pretty high on Google so I switched it from a blog to an e-commerce store. Now it ranks pretty high in Google for my main keywords. Now that I have the ranking thing down, I need to focus on conversion… better site design, build an email list, blah, blah, blah.

    Like the Droid mentions, I’m taking action and learning as I go along. I have run a successful offshore software development business using internet marketing (my clients actually found me online, imagine that!) and am applying those techniques to the e-commerce store.

    2). About link building, like I said, I’ve seen results (both Google rankings and traffic) based on my own hardwork.

    3). Perry Marshall is not a part of the Syndicate to my knowledge and I don’t get a hyped, slimy, make-money-fast feel from him. The other resources that I mentioned are either no longer active so they can’t sell you anything, or in the case of ViperChill.com the guy purposely doesn’t sell anything on his site.


    1. @Raza – TheCoffeeMakerStore, thanks for your answer. I have yet to meet or talk to a real person in IM (i.e., not a “business” coach, MLM leech, or scammer) who’s not in the red, and I’ve been asking around. Good luck to you though.

      On Marshall, he’s definitely not in the Syndicate, though they used to travel in the same circles: Ken McCarthy’s System Seminar. He introduced the world to StomperNet, among others. McCarthy has a reputation as being squeaky-clean which I don’t think matches his past associates or his practice of marketing overpriced seminars and “courses” to noobs. For an these infomarketers, a “course” is an badly-recorded audio of a hotel event where they ramble for a few hours.

      And while Marshall talks a lot about wanting only real business owners, I think it’s just positioning. Even now his “Definitive Guide to Google Adwords 2010 Edition” is pushing a $49 to $197 book to noobs, and reading the sales page is disgusting:

      ““$49 For A Course On Buying Web Traffic? …That’s Too Expensive!”

      The biggest lie that anyone will ever tell you about the Internet is that it’s free. Nothing is free, especially not search engine traffic. This is not 1999, it’s 2010. If you want to get quality traffic and have total control of it today, you’re going to be buying clicks on Google. But Google AdWords is not something you can afford to screw up. The hard reality is that only 3% of the players win.”

      Perry! I want to be in the 3%! Take my money! Make me a player like you! So I can be full of win!

      And there’s this ANONYMOUS testimonial with an unverified, absurd income claim:

      “Mr. X is one such person. I was at a seminar and this guy came up to me, introduced himself, and said, “I bought your Definitive Guide to Google AdWords 2 years ago, I started doing affiliate marketing and quit my attorney job and I’ve been making a comfortable six figure income ever since. Thank you, thank you!””

      It is manipulative; it sets up unrealistic expectations; for me and a lot of others, it was a further step into IM, AKA the waste of what little life we get in this world.

      Perry Marshall is a minister’s son and fancies himself ethical. I don’t think he’ll rot in hell with Kern & the rest; Purgatory might freshen him up for a spell. Though if he reads this he’ll probably write a 16-page newsletter about how I should have 80/20’d my way into entrepreneurial freedom. And then charge $49.95 a month to read it!

      1. @Slowly Waking,

        Thanks for your reply to my comment. Is your point that it’s not possible to make money marketing online, or that it’s possible but just not worth it? I’ve come to the realization that most of these “coaches” aren’t telling me anything I don’t already know. I’d rather work with like-minded entrepreneurs through a Meet-Up or something than shell out hundreds of bucks per month for some IM “training” program.

        I’m in Chicago and know some entrepreneurs who are doing quite well online. GreenEarthBamboo.com sells bamboo clothes, towels, bedsheets, etc and is doing pretty well. Also, tss-radio.com is based in Chicago and they sell satellite radios and accessories to the tune of $4.5million per year and were listed in the Inc 500. I see these guys are respectable businessmen building real businesses online.

        From time to time I listen to interviews on Mixergy.com Andrew Warner interviews successful business people and asks how they got there.

        At the end of the day, it’s all about hard work and providing an honest service to your clients.

      2. @Slowly Waking, I like Perry myself. I know he has a high priced mastermind which i have no interest in at this point, but I purchased his Definitive guide to Adwords about 3-4 years ago for $97, and it was well worth the value. The man definitely knows his sh*t and doesn’t try to burn people.

        But that’s the difference, Marshall is not out their hawking bullshit for $2000, nor is he telling you this stuff’s easy and you can make 6 figs fast. And rarely does he promote other people’s stuff, I think over 4 years Ive been ready his emails, I think Ive seen 2 or 3 affiliate offers from him. And they’ve all been adwords related.

        This is like an anti Salty Droid post! Sorry SD, but I can’t be a total prick all the time :)

        1. @Jimmy,

          I like Perry Marshall too. Question though: is the premise is it’s not possible to make money online, or that it’s possible but just isn’t worth it.

          I know a few people running profitable businesses selling real products online. They do SEO and PPC to get traffic so I’m not sure if you’re saying all internet marketing is crap, or just these scammers.

          One thing I know is that I’d rather pay $250 per month in real marketing; writing articles, creating videos, doing giveaways, writing guest posts, etc. than pay for some crappy make-money-online course.


      3. @Slowly Waking,

        I’m not a member of Perry Marshall’s content, but paying $50 for an AdWords Guide is a pretty good deal. I’d trust Perry Marshall with my $50 before I’d trust Google with my advertising dollars.

        I do know that his higher end seminars (Bobsled Run?) are application-only events where he chooses who can and can’t attend. He also adds a guarantee to slash AdWords costs or increase revenue by a certain %.

        I’ve never tried it so obviously I can’t attest, but it doesn’t seem like he preys on newbies at these events.

        Thanks for the feedback to my original comment.


        1. @Raza – TheCoffeeMakerStore, we have different standards for a good price, it seems. Best of luck.

  30. well…for those of you who missed Andros webinar…you didn’t miss much…

    I know you’re suprised and shit…but seriously…it sucked [[my bandwidth]] and provided fuck all in the way of entertainment [[I know …big surprise for me too]]…

    It was the exact same shit she always says [[why her program doesn’t suck monkey balls]]….she knocks the naysayers [[that’s us negatorious people]], tells her audience to suspend disbelief, and model suckcess [[I assume she means herself]]..same old BS…

    For those who really want to hear it [[powerpoint slide show..no video..weird huh…a live webinar with no video feed from the “video queen”]]…

    If you want to hear the webinar….click the link put in a fake name [[not even sure why it is necessary…but whatever]]..and you can watch the first one…the second one was just a carbon copy of the first.

    http://vmq.omnovia.com/archives/65643 [[the slides are to die for…they look like a little kid with down syndrome made them…the words were off center, words cut off..it was like a joke for a supposed $14K coarse]]

    Speaking about $14K….I think the funniest part were the values….the program value is $6,750 [[my ass is $6,750]] the two ticks to LA for a “seminar” $5K[[added to make the program more palatable]], $1K personal video review [[for Andros to personally shit on your video]]..and $1,500 for 5 group calls [[those last $2,500 “of bonuses” were always included..so not sure how that is a “bonus” in a supposed “coaching” program…butt whateva]]….

    I think Andros took “intrinsic” value times 100 fold…yeah $140 that’s about right..if you earn that much by following her BS….

    For those who were worried that 1000 seats would not be enough…there was only 127 people on today’s webinar, and a lot were affiliate and assorted shills. The countdown to the fake scarcity was precious…both today’s [[and the webinar above]] only one “special” remained [[what “special”…it was just the regular register page…but whateva]] was left when the seminar was done…truly magical…

    PS -someone asked [[someone from here?]] why all her students that she has listed on her copy, have such horrendous alexa rankings..indicating virtually NO traffic….but the question went unanswered and was just ignored…it’s kind of funny how the “chatting” sped up after that question was asked…truly magical…

    Time for bed…my brain went through stupid today…it needs time to recover….

    1. @_cartman_, unbelievable, more like believable. Couldn’t access the slides though. Id like to know how many $1997 packages she really sold on this launch. 14k in value…yeah OK! I guess she’s another one who says “I charge 1000 an hour for one-on-one private coaching”…yeah, sure you do. Thing is, NO ONE pays it.

      So what you guys think for number of units sold? couple hundred?

      Nice summary Cartman. Im like really impressed. Like I just manifest success and stuff, and positive shit just magnetizes to my universe. Like, ya know?

      1. @Jimmy,

        Yeah…the $1K/hr $15K/day is a cheap psychological “ploy”…”ohh look she charges a small “fortune”…and I can get her time for a fraction by buying her program”…except the fact that real people don’t think that way…..

        I’m still trying to figure out how she pulled that $2,500 value per person for a seminar…if she charges $15K per day [[and we make-believe that someone was to pay it]]….for two days it’s $30K…ahh yes…but that is a ONE on ONE “session”…. if expenses for that seminar is $5K that’s a total value of $35K…if 300 people are going….that’s like $120 value per person…nobody gets one on one attention…it’s 1/300th of the attention, so the price should be 1/300th of the actual costs….she’s a fucked up business person [bahahaha…I said business person…and I kept a straight face…honest…Okay..I lied..]]

        How many were sold?…hard to say…my guess is less then 150….she is holding a “seminar” [[limited to 300people]], each order gets 2 tickets…

        150 orders = 300 tickets = 300 people….the tickets are still on her copy [[and I presume still available]]….ipso calypso..<150…

        I manifester success through the universal too…do you practice black magick..I do….I'm all like black magickal…

        My black magick for dummies book says I'm supposed to sacrifice small animals [[but I won't]]…so I use beanie animals…and strawberry kool-aid for the blood…

        My wife keeps asking what happened to the heads of her beanies…I tell her ….like babe…suck it up…I'm manifestering our future…and we all have to make sacrifices [[of small stuffed animals]]…she's all like…you're weird…

        Some people just don't understand what it takes to manifester universal success…the noobs…

        1. @_cartman_, I really like believe that if she weren’t an attractive chick (if we’re being honest, she aint ugly), she wouldn’t have a tenth of the following she appears to.

          But if someone is paying 2 grand for that cheap thrill, they deserve to be parted from their money.

  31. ALERT:

    We have yet another douchebag trying to teach social media like pretty poser Maria Andros and raping the poor unsuspecting suckers who buy the crap by overcharging.. who the hell does he think he is $3K a pop seriously Mike you are an even bigger asshole than Kern

    In the last 6 hours since Koenigs mailed this out he has a whopping 62 views on the #1 video in the launch.

    SO VERY NOT FUCKING impressive for someone who claims to have made 9 million dollars on his mail street marketing machines launch

    6 hours, a few hundred thousands emails sent= 62 views= MORON

    Ya’ll are such SCUMBAGS


    Mike Koenigs here,

    I know you’re STOKED to get started promoting our

    new “Social Media Marketing Machines” program.

    The launch date is coming FAST!

    So today I’ve got some double-good news!

    First, the very first launch video for public release is

    READY to go, and I have to say, it’s pretty “meaty” for

    just an appetizer!

    But an appetizer is EXACTLY what it is – this is the

    first time we’re going to share the “Social Media

    Marketing Machines” opportunity with your


    That’s why we’ve created a pitch-perfect, mouth-

    watering morsel designed to get them fully warmed

    up and engaged for EVERYTHING that’s to come.

    First thing’s first – here’s YOUR LINK:


    You’re going to need that to share with your list, blog,

    Twitter followers, Facebook friends, WHATEVER –

    because the buzz will start building very soon.

    Second – I’ve got some specially written super-sweet

    swipe copy that should get your prospects over to our

    new video nearly as fast as they can manage to read

    and click!

    We recommend you take a moment to personalize it,

    but even if you can’t you can send it AS IS.

    Everything is ready to go on our end.

    Oh, and Third – here’s where you can log in and

    check your stats:


    So, today is STEP 1 in making a killing with this

    promo! Mail ASAP and if you need ANYTHING,

    we’re here to support YOU!

    Thanks for promoting this launch, and congratulations

    on your future success with “Social Media Marketing



    Mike Koenigs

    PS – Swipe Copy for your lists, blogs, etc is below –

    It’s easy to get start: Copy, Paste, SEND!

    PPS – Our LIVE Affiliates ONLY Webcast is today at

    2:00PM PST. Go HERE!


    Swipe Copy:

    Subject: Six Figures getting businesses social?

    Before you read this, I have to warn you that it might

    make some sensitive people upset…

    It’s no wonder, though. The news is blaring about the

    economy and how terrible things are for business. It’s

    got lots of entrepreneurs running scared.

    And that’s not just for us Online marketers – it goes

    DOUBLE for Businesses who know they need Social

    Media, but don’t have a clue as to how it REALLY

    works if you want to generate sales and leads.

    What if I told you there’s a way you can take what you

    ALREADY KNOW about Social Media and TEAM UP

    with the BEST businesses in your area to make

    MORE money…

    More money than EITHER of you could make


    And you actually do it by HELPING people, not

    SELLING them!

    It’s true!


    Listen, you may have heard a ton about how to make

    money with Social Media before, but this is drastically

    different. This puts YOU in the driver’s seat helping

    people who just don’t have a clue where to even


    No need to become a Social Media Ninja to land


    This ENTIRE system is AUTOMATED!

    No need to hire a designer – a programmer – a

    secretary – a sales staff…Because…

    Well, look – you might not believe me unless you saw

    it yourself. I watched it twice just to make sure.


    Seriously. Go check it out.


    PS – There are people who are “kinda ready to learn

    a little about making money with internet marketing”…

    And then there’s “ready to MAKE SOME MONEY with

    internet marketing – HELP ME DO IT ALREDY!”…

    The video over here is the second one:


    1. @Pixiefairies, What is this, like the 100th course on “how to explode your business with social media” this month?

      Gee, you think this is just rehashed, repurposed, regurgitated BS that’s already been out there for months, if not longer?

      As far as the 3k price tag, it the old “the bigger the lie the more they’ll believe it” tactic. Works every time, on desperate suckers anyway. :)

      Anyone who spends 3k on a social media course should have their head examined, chasing that get rich quick dream is one expensive education.

  32. I can’t recommend any particular product for ‘making money online’, but for those looking to start ask yourself this question:


    Have a website with some content (so you learn something about usability from guys like Jakob Nielsen). Next? Promotion. PPC (you learn from google-certified AdWords experts/companies, many of them have blogs with free stuff), SEO (you learn from guys who do actual research in the seo space like seomoz), PPV, social media (you learn and contact power users on Digg/SU/propeller who get their stuff consistently on the front page). And many other methods like ’email marketing’ and so on.

    Next? Conversion rate optimization (you learn from guys like marketing experiments and conversion-rate-experts who actually worked with big companies to optimize their landing pages).

    Now, everything I recommended above is totally free and prob. good for someone who wants to get started.

    Salty, I don’t agree making money online is hard dude, define me what do you mean by *hard”, I just think it takes working consistently/having patience/making use of opportunities that go along the way and some smaller factors as well. If that’s hard, then yes marketing on the net is hard.

    For you newb out there…FOR FREAKING SAKE STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE PROMISING ‘FORMULAS’ on making money online. Like I mentioned above, online money making = MANY PARTS and each parts have MANY variables so if someone is able to make a ‘formula’ that consistently makes money then he should prob. get a Nobel prize or something.

    1. @Darren ::

      Making money online is hard because making money is hard. The Internet doesn’t get some kind of special waiver from the facts of life.

      I can describe the basic steps of opening a profitable restaurant to you … but that doesn’t mean you’ll be able to do it … most restaurants fail badly.

      Using the Internet to market your business is fucking easy beyond belief … but running a successful business is hard … and requires assloads of luck along with the virtues you describe.

  33. I’m trying to figure how Salty Droid profits from all this. I would be naive to think this guy is doing it out of the goodness of his heart.
    For all we know this guy is the creation of the big time gurus.

    1. @Pantsonfire, You’re either incredibly daft or affiliated with a guru yourself. Nobody with half a brain who spends more than 12 minutes rooting around this site would think anything of the sort. How can pointing out (massively) where people are SCAMMING actually benefit them in any way whatsoever? If you hadn’t noticed, there are no-holds-barred here, and it shows.

      Oh, and where are there banner ads, or anything else producing income on this site? There isn’t any. Of course, you are simply talking out of your ass in the face of reality, which makes you suspect.

    1. @Mandros hater, Just goes to show, that the media often doesn’t do it’s homework. Maybe the editorial staff there need some pointers to a robot blog and the appropriate information on said blog.

    2. @Mandros hater, @Carl,

      can you believe this giant nosed annoying mandros made this article!?

      Yeah…and it shows…3000 views for 15 “powerhouse leaders” speaks volumes.

      I spoke with a mathematician and he states that’s like an average of 200 viewers per powerhouse [[and he went to Elementally sKcool…so I truster him]].

      These people have more then 60K facebook “friends”, and over 500K twitter followers. The article was tweeted 248 times, recommended 93 times, shared 105 times, and they could only mustard up [[true wieners]] 3000 views [[not to mention SD’s readers who are curious to see this train wreck.

      If you look at the overall popularity of Razlaff authorship [[and her average views..most being 2 digits some as high as 3]], it shows what I have always stated inside my head; “The media doesn’t give credibility to the person, the person gives credibility to the media.”


    3. @Mandros hater ::

      This has given me cause for wrath.

      I commented … I suggest some of you do the same {keep it classy}.

      And that won’t be the end of it …

      1. @SD,

        Done! Hopefully it won’t get removed. I guess it depends on if they consider the truth “offensive”.

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