Iron Klad Kilstein



A short time ago :: in a galaxy called ScammerNet Marketering 5.0 beta :: there existed a dumpy little troll that we call Not-Doctor Harlan Kilstien {because he isn’t a doctor}.  The dumpy troll needed to sell a lot of scam product to pay for his fake-pimp lifestyle {drivin’ roun’ Boca in a super dope sleeveless T-shirt :: shoutin’ at da hoes :: windows quarter way down pumpin’ Counting Crows latest CD at 4.5 – 5 on the factory speakers :: joinin’ all the freshest ‘masterminds’ :: shit like that}.

But times are tough out there for scammers.  Especially for ugly ones :: with ugly souls :: and ugly lies :: and ugly lives. Oh and then there is this Droid … he’s like … kind of been a problem.

Without enough fresh kills to support daddies demons :: Kilstein turned to retapping his list of previous victims.  Is there anyone with a single penny left that he could suck dry?

One person who was reminded of Kilstein’s continued existence via this “exciting opportunity” was Enigma Valdez.  Enigma was a part of Not-Doctor Kilstein’s Six Figures Coaching Program in 2006 {this was in the days before Joseph Smith told Doofstein about the Seven Golden Tactics}.

Enigma was working two lame jobs :: and going through some rough times {which I vouch for but don’t reveal}. He can write :: so he likes the idea of writing copy for the Internet :: making money from home.

Harlan’s classy sales materials consisted of trolling around the AWAI forums  {a forum for copywriting types} :: calling the AWAI people and programs bullshit scams. He made a terrible video about it :: because he’s just that much of mother fucking douche.  He was eventually booted from the forum because :: and this is just pure speculation :: he was bashing it and using it to sell his crap at the same time.

Unfortunately :: sales were made.

Kilstein :: unlike AWAI :: was the real deal.  He’ll make you rich :: and famous :: and maybe you’ll start to develop a man fetus inside of your Yoga stomach like the Guru himself. Six Figures … that’s what lil’ ol’ you could make.  The dumpy man beast was bringing in Seven Figures :: natch!

Promises :: Promises

Enigma didn’t have the money :: But he was going through tough times :: His parents love him and want him to succeed :: None of them knew jackshit about the Internet.  So his parents agree to pay :: and Enigma enrolls in the coaching program.  The money is taken from his step-father’s business account via PayPal.  The money in that account comes from the performance of contract janitorial services :: A much more rigorous task than Boca fake-pimping.

$500 per month for 12 months == $6,000

As long as he’s willing to “work hard” he’ll be making six figures in no time.

The “coaching” was just a series of weekly group calls :: Harlan rambled :: burped liquids :: paused awkwardly :: and told you to buy other books and junk you didn’t need.  Over the course of the year Enigma {who bought the additional materials and did all the “assignments”} received less than 60 total minutes of coaching time with the ManBeast.  Sure :: in retrospect that was one of God’s small blessings :: but it’s still a fucking fail of a coaching program.

At the end of the year an “expensive” seminar was put on :: if you were a part of the coaching program you got in “free” as part of the raping you’d already received. The seminar :: of course :: was a pitch fest for a bunch of other shit products :: with the Not-Doctor getting a big taste of whatever crap got eaten.

Special Bonus :: Get a DVD of the seminar {the grand culmination of everything you’ve been training for} :: which you’ve already paid more than $6,000 to be a part of :: if you are willing to give Harlan a testiphonial for his gem of a fucking coaching program.  Enigma tries to circumvent Sandra’s tyranny and just get the fucking useless DVD :: No dice :: Do the fake testimonial … or sod off.

Meanwhile :: back in reality :: Enigma’s not making a mother fucking cent.  Because Kilstein is a liar :: and the things he’s selling are not real.

Program over :: Step-Father’s workin’ man account is billed for two more months.  $1000 extra! :: just as a kiss goodbye.  Calls are made :: Kilstein and OTC Publishing refuse to stop the billings or refund the money.  PayPal is contacted and after much hassle :: charges back the extra $1000.

Overall :: a horrible experience.  Enigma would love to get his Step-Father’s money back :: but he’s spent the year watching Harlan in the forums :: and it hasn’t been pretty.  If you cross Harlan {or defend rape victim advocates} … he’ll stoop to anything to exact his vengeance {anything that a 13 year old boy could think of}.

When Kilstein tried to re-fish in old waters that still stank of his pee :: He pushed Enigma to The Salty Droid.  His Step-Father has recently had a heart attack and had to have surgery.  Things are even tighter than they were before … and those Internet Monies never did come.  Now demanding that refund for fraud :: misrepresentation :: and uselessness sounds much less scary {but still pretty scary}.

The Droid is orchestrating this battle :: All messages from any party go though me.  Kilstein was put on notice of this demand for a refund by Enigma, his Step-Father, and The Droid.

What was Harlan Kilstein’s response to this hard working family of nice people?

1. He starts tweeting incessantly about a refund request from a non-student.

“Would you refund a person who was never in your coaching program because he didn’t make money in your coaching program?”

“When NLP backfires. You accidentally hypnotize someone to think he was in your coaching program.”

“Ah. The person behind the racist emais is now backing an extortion attempt. What will little minds think of next?”

But Enigma was in his coaching program :: and paid in full.  There is no confusion.  And speaking of little minds not thinking … what racist emails?

Kilstein claims that someone has been signing him up for email lists with the name “Nigger” :: So befluxumed with this racial effrontery :: Pasty white Boca Kilstein has to take his plea into the public twitters :: Cause you know … it’s totally cool to say nigger whenever you want to create a mild distraction.

“I think it’s pretty pathetic that some schizo is encouraging people to email me calling me “Nigger”. Makes you wonder wonder who they are.” {link}

“Off Twitter and email for 2 day Jewish holiday, come back to dozens of “Dear Nigger” emails. Who are these sick people?” {link}

“Getting emails addressed Dear Nigger leads me to wonder what people are thinking. Are they?” {link}

So step one :: deny the existence of a claim that exists.  Falsely accuse the party making the request of damning {reputation destroying} racism.  And what the fuck :: why not go all in and call it an extortion attempt?

2.  The public cries of racist extortion are backed by a private effort.  Harlan has one of his stupid bitches {Anthony Coyne} :: Send Enigma this friendly little email at around 2am … approx. 1 hour after the first refund request is made by the Step-Father.

“Who’s {Step-Father’s Name}?

Because he’s throwing yout name around?

Give me a call when you get a chance.

This is serious because Harlan is about to go to the FBI
with an extortion case.

Your name’s come up and I want to make sure you’re clean.

Let me know


Well isn’t that “friendly” of Anthony? Passing on a laugh-out-loud stupid threat for his slow to pay out sugar daddy :: what devotion he’s shown … hope he gets a kiss from Harlan because I have a few “rewards” planned for him as well. Interfering with one of the The Droids quests is a bad idea :: Dream about it Anthony … then maybe you’ll be ready for it {but probably not}.

3.  The final crazy piece in this pie of spastic intimidation :: A letter sent via UPS Overnight to the home of Enigma’s parents :: Where his Step-Father is convalescing from open heart surgery.  The letter explains that a refund is not in order because although they paid for the coaching … they weren’t actually in the program.  This might make sense if you are an insane person :: but it sounds of pointless gibberish to The Droid.

Letters from The Dump

{click to view}

Dear Harlan ::

Your tactics bring shame upon man and beast.  Your threats, lies, and badgering are meaningless.  You have taken a significant amount of money from a working family and returned to them nothing but suffering and self-doubt.  The fraud and misrepresentations you used to sell your “coaching” program were criminal and despicable. The program itself was of zero actual value.  You will refund this money by November 20th, 2009 … or a campaign to bring you to justice will begin in earnest.  Other victims will be found, and a concerted effort made to bring you to the attention of any of the numerous law enforcement agencies having jurisdiction over you and your fraudulent activities.

BiteMe You Sick Prick,

The Droid {Robotic counsel to Enigma Valdez :: A seriously brave dude}

>> bleep bleep

107 thoughts on “Iron Klad Kilstein”

  1. I have been involved in Internet Marketing for maybe about 10 years now. I find it so sad how all these guys make the most money and get so damn greedy.



    Kern ( everyone loves to blow him)
    Reese (him too.. never seen such a public blowing of one person)


    Stomper-fucks (all of them. fucks)

    The one thing I’ve learned without being indoctrinated like most people face is that these people may appear to to be your best friend and the most trusting person on earth but they could not give a flying fuck about you in the end.

    They see these people as their personal financial trough. The trough is seen as a never ending personal supply of cash. (and most of the time it works out for these guys)

    I mean, lets be realistic here. Kilstein is an easy target. The other boys become more difficult because they are so “loved” by the masses. To their credit they are able to establish this level of trust amongst the masses with ease and they will be here protecting their loved ones by the thousands.

    Kilstein is such a loser but his practice is no different then any of the bigger assholes here.

    What Kilstein’s done in this case is just plain wrong however and the whole coaching program sounds like a major debacle.

    You can legitimately earn your keep in this business. I run programs where I teach people how to do something but I don’t rape people for every last dime of their money. I also don’t pretend to teach what I don’t know. I ALSO don’t promise that by the end of the teaching you’ll be making X amount of money.

    I think on the other end of the spectrum…  I have to question how people seem to be fooled by the tricks into paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for this information and then they are easily sucked into joining the “coaching” programs. I just don’t get the stupidity.

    Then again, people willingly paid $10k to walk into a sweat dome with a fake preacher. What a world.

    They just can all blow each other


    1. LOL, you dumb fuck loser.

      Stompernet has some freakin good info about running your own ecommerce biz

      All the rest are scammers that teach you how to be a scammer too.

      But hey, it’s just MONEY.

      1. @Aaron, Kern & Belcher have some great stuff too.
        List Control had some great content
        And the $5000 Traffic & Conversion seminar that was put on by Ryan Deiss and Belcher had some amazing content.

        Fortunately both are relatively easy to get absolutely free via torrents and such, sorry, I believe in paying money for good information but $2k for List Control, I’ve seen $47 products that we’re 80% of the way as good… fuck that!

    My Salty Droid Jason and  “WOW”…
    A fan and commenter here on this blog by the name of MockMeBaby –DOES NOT– like it when you use words like rape- or raping when referring to being scammed by a perp or perv…
    ~Please refrain from doing so~
    : )

  3. Good luck, Enigma. Those of us who watched you struggle in Shitstein’s program (as we struggled ourselves) were surprised that he continued to take your money. After we got to know the bastard better, we weren’t so surprised. (Yeah, he fucked over most of us).

    And did anyone catch Shitstein’s latest attempts to deflect the heat?

    Now he’s a crusader against online scams. His latest emails for Tactic10 (going out to everyone on his various lists) feature links to crappy Youtube vids he made “exposing” common CPA scams.

    Here are a two of them:

    “Shame on them.

    There is no excuse for this crap.

    Check this video I recorded out and please let me know what you think.

    There’s nothing for sale there.

    But I hope the bad guys really pay for this.


    “I’m on a role exposing online scams.

    This is one of the most notorious ones online.

    Some people are making a lot of money.  But the way they are doing it is way less than kosher.

    Check out this post:

    We received a warning of people trying to hack out site to take this down.

    Again, I believe education is the best weapon.


    Notice how he picks safe targets (not like Salty — my man!) in his pathetic effort to curry favor with the ignorant.

    Let’s put this fucker down for good!

  4. @ChrisF
    Yes, congratulations HK on so craftily exposing these dastardly deeds… several weeks after they drew the attention of the mainstream media. And if HK is worth one thin red cent, he would know these sites are torn down and put back up with a different name as often as they need to be, in a matter of minutes, without batting an eyelash so there’s no sense in targeting one. But hats off to you HK for your regurgitation of CNN’s reporting. (Do you rip off ALL your content or just the ones to lend yourself credibility?)
    I’ve got something for all of you at the “top”. Should be ready by Christmas. <3

    1. I watched the video… I’m just curious what part of it bothers you so much?

      I understand the urge to go after guys who make false claims or engage in ethically questionable techniques. (The use of persuasion, by itself, is not unethical.)

      But it seems to me that if you start going after guys just because they make a lot of money or they’re charging a big fee (“big fee,” of course, is relative), then why not go after actors, sports professionals, etc.?

      I’m not taking sides here… it just seems to me there’s a generally negative sentiment against anybody who charges more than $500 for anything.


      1. Ryan,

        I agree in part that there is a bias against high-priced products and services here.

        But, in cases like the “business opportunity” of Walker’s “Product Launch Manager” product, it’s understandable. Too many of us have heard these promises before.

        And the video pitches it as a business with next to no startup costs (other than the $10K fee, of course).

        Starting to sound familiar?

        Sure smells like a bullshit biz opp to me.

      2. Ryan makes a good point.

        Walker seems like a decent guy but I hate the charging of these exorbitant fees for these ridiculous services like product launch manager training.

        I also don’t like the crowd Walker hangs with so my hatred and anger is just deeper then that and extends to him not because of the money he makes but because he participates in a circle jerk every other day with the “guru” boys.

        I agree however it’s more important to keep the dogs on the people that are genuinely hurting others and not the ones just charging a lot for their products even if I have a deep rooted hatred for them.

        1. Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

          You raise a good point when you say, “I also don’t like the crowd Walker hangs with…”

          I think “guilt by association” is going to become more common in the Internet marketing space, which means it will be important to carefully consider who we promote or align ourselves with.


      3. I’m going to agree with Ryan. I think folks need to just get over the price thing. It should be about what is promised and delivered. If you decide the price is right based on the promises, then what matters is what actually gets delivered. If the promise gets delivered, then you got what you felt was your money’s worth. If you didn’t, you didn’t. Simple as that really.

        Example: I bought some DVDs for $600 once. I know they didn’t cost $40 in materials expense. But those DVDs saved me the effort of attending classes at another physical location, driving time, scheduling, etc.  I can also refer to them later again if I need to. And it was good technical information. So for me, it was worth the money.

        Of course, not everyone is going to have the same opinion about the same product. That’s fine. Even straight shooters can’t please everybody. But, when you start to see the numbers of dissatisfied people creeping up close to or passing the number of satisfied people, then: Houston! We have a problem. That’s a better benchmark.

        Also, as has been pointed out…these guys should guard their associations. I think it’s entirely reasonable to discount someone because they associate with D-Bags. Our associations can really define who we are (or are not).

        1. I regret that some of my remarks have led my friends here to believe that I think ‘high price’ alone satisfies as a qualification for calling something a scam. For the record :: the things I’ve pointed to are a MEGA SCAM for the price :: But I would not generalize out based on price alone :: It’s just one of the aspects that make these crimes especially sinister and damaging considering the overall context.

          However :: if you are selling to individuals rather than companies :: at a certain price point … a honest business person has the obligation to make sure that the customer is not going to suffer from financial or personal ruin due to the purchase. Intentional ignorance of those facts should not serve as an excuse.

          in re Jeff Walker :: something tells me that Jeff knows all about me … and that Jeff is already suffering damage from this blog via his aforementioned ‘associations’ … right Jeff? Yeah. Thought so.

      4. Ryan–

        It’s not the price of the products, it’s the bullshit “you can do what I did” sleight of hand these guys use.  I’m glad someone posted Jeff Walker’s deplorable product, because this sad sack flim flam man really does take the cake.

        John Reese talks about his legendary 1million dollar day.  No chance in hell Johnny Justgettingstarted can do that–so why mention it?  It is totally irrelevant.
        Frank Kern talks about his 32 million in 4 lauches–including the Stompernet 23 million dollar lauch.  Again, there is no way–absolutely NONE–Johnny Startingtoday can do that.  So again, why mention it?

        Those are just two examples of “gurus” who used the “secret tactic” of marketing to massive lists–lists of their insider pals the average person has ZERO chance of being able to tap into.

        Jeff Walker distilled this “you’re crazy if you think you can do this, too” method into his “product launch formula.”  He made a fortune, basically telling people to create pre-launch hype with “free line” content marketing to likely buyers via emails sent to huge lists.  Without the lists, the entire product launch method breaks down. 

        Now, you’re a guy just starting out, with no contacts, no list, no product, no name, and yet you’re going to be able to follow the product launch formula?  Are you fucking kidding me?

        Forget the fact that he was charging $2000 to get this fantasy formula.  Even if he was charging $47, it would still be a ridiculous product.

        And now, look what he’s doing.  His product lauch manager program is basically a formula touting the idea of going to a business and saying, “hey, I have a way for you to lauch a new product that has been shown to bring in–sometimes–over $1 million in a single day.  For a percentage of the profits, I’ll set it up, and run the entire launch for you.

        Nice theory.  Of course Walker makes it look like a “picking gold off the street” strategy.  Same problem, though.  If you’re a complete newbie approaching a business, how likely are you to be given the time of day (just because you have a song and dance about being able to deliver a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow).  Any experience?  Uh….no.  Any track record?  Uh…no.  Okay, whatever, I’ll take a chance on you.  Have at er.  Now what do you do?  The formula hinges on you having a huge list of likely buyers to tap.  So, you, ask the business if he has such a list.  It’s extremely likely he doesn’t.  Then what?  You’re fucked.

        Really, all Walker is doing here is selling a glorified “show others how to do it” product.  Haven’t been able to use Product Luanch Formula yourself?  Hey, no problem.  Just approach other businesses, and in effect license them the formula.

        Ridiculous doesn’t begin to describe it.

        1. @franksgaycousintrey – You said, “Without the lists, the entire product launch method breaks down.” Very true.

          You can try to seek out affiliates who have lists and might be persuaded to mail for you, but this strategy works better in some markets than others. (In some niches, affiliate marketing is already ingrained; in others it’s illegal.)

          The other thing I’ve noticed about product launches is that once they start happening in a particular market, then everybody with a product in that market wants to do one. But the more launches that happen, the more everybody starts to catch on to what’s really happening.

          Translation: Affiliates become more reticent to promote you because they don’t want the people on their list getting on your list. When this breakdown happens, the massive “everybody mails the same day” launch becomes virtually impossible.


      5. An EXTREMELY valid point, Ryan.

        Here’s the gist of what’s up:

        Want to be a beautician? It costs anywhere from $7500 to $11,000 to go to BEAUTICIAN SCHOOL.

        Want to be a massage therapist? Around $15,000.

        Want to be a certified IT Tech? Plan to spend $20,000.

        Is it immoral to make $20 million a year? Would you be willing to spend the huge money (as in — hundreds of thousands) to become a heart surgeon and then hundreds of thousands more to open a practice and hundreds of thousands or more a year to carry malpractice insurance — and only make $100,000 a year?

        It’s a free county. You have a right to hate people just because they make a lot of money or just because they charge more than you’d like to pay. Is it “unfair” of Mercedes to charge more for their cars than, say, Honda? But you also have a right to charge whatever you feel is fair for your services and products. Consumers also have the right to say “no” and if not enough consumers are willing to pay you your prices, you will either starve or have to adjust to fit the market demand.

        What quality and selection of heart surgeons and other professionals would we have if they were all working with a ceiling on what they could earn for their efforts in return for excellence?

        If you’re a business consultant with a solid track record of performance and certifiable evidence you’ve generated MILLIONS in additional revenue for your clients, and thousands of eager clients lining up to get access to your knowledge…should you only work with the few you have time in a day to, then charge them the same as someone without that record or experience would charge? Or should you offer a low-priced level of assistance (newsletters, seminars, trainings and courses) to one level of client and personal assistance to those who are ready and can afford to pay whatever price you’ve set?

        Sorry folks. I happen to enjoy money. I don’t live eat sleep and breathe for it. I don’t LOVE money. I ENJOY it. And I love to work. If I can find a way to make $1 per MINUTE that I’m working and that way is legal, moral and ethical — then stand back while I enjoy the fruits of my labor to the max.

        I wish everyone here and elsewhere the same.

        But the keywords overall, what makes Salty’s job so important (at least as a wake-up call, if nothing else), are legal, moral and ethical.

        So — long-winded point aside I ask you this question:

        Is it money everyone here hates so vehemently? Or is it illegal, immoral and unethical acts for the love of money that they hate? If it’s the latter, I may have just found my true homies. If it’s the former, I’m sure I won’t hang around for long.

        To anyone here who believes that success in and of itself is somehow evil — God help you in your life. You’ll need it. If you believe that money is what it’s all about and anything you can do to pull it in is ok if it works — God can’t help you any more, cause Salty’s on the clock.

        1. @PoopChute … good comment.

          For the record :: The Droid is no success hater. If you don’t cheat :: lie :: or manipulate … then it’s none of my god damn business what you charge.

        2. I can’t speak for everyone else, but based on my impression of Salty’s work, as well as roughly 85% of commenters here, the primary goal is to eliminate the scum.

          Scum not being defined as “earns scads of money”, but rather “lies, cheats, and steals with no conscience, and forms tight incestuous cliques in an effort to destroy their own customers and peers”.

          Again, not speaking for anyone else, but from what I’ve seen, and I believe it has even been said in a much earlier comment…

          Salty is a sheep in wolf’s clothing, who is out to destroy the wolves in sheep’s clothing.

          And anyone who makes the mistake of underestimating Salty…


          all I can say is R.I.P.

        3. Karin, right here above in your January 28 comment (7:17pm), you said in just a few brilliant words what I’ve been trying to say for so long in many, but could never quite get out. I only wish I had your succinctness and brevity. I can only aspire, and even then, who knows. Getting to the point is hard enough for the weak at heart, I’m sure everyone will agree, and pretty much everyone knows a friend or a cousin (or perhaps even someone at work or at the grocery store or nearby laundry) who wrestles with it to some degree or another. Anyway, I just wanted to give kudo(s) where kudo(s) were due, even though some people will probably say kudo(s) should be conserved, given the current state of our shrinking natural resources. That’s just my two cents – you may have more – and eventually they could equal a dollar. Isn’t this a great world we live in? I think so.

  5. Oh and plus – they’re going to be vetting the applicants via IP! and the threat in there was that if you’re not serious, you won’t be considered for future launches either! Better get a good proxy!

  6. Hello all and thank you Droid.  I want to adress the  people who have commented on how stupid someone has to be or how naive a person has to be to fall for the likes of Harlan Kilstein.
    I used to think like you, but I have learned a very humbling and humiliating lesson here.   What you don’t know could seriously hurt you. These people study how to manipulate people. They study how your brain works and how to pull your strings through your primal urges, such as fight or flight.
    Imagine if you’re a guy who’s just survived a very terrible car accident, or you’re a woman who has just gone through a bad divorce, or you’re a  full-time college student looking for a way to set off tuition bills, you know those real life circumstances that can make you question whether or not you should even go on anymore, much less get up out of bed in the morning. We all get down sometimes, if you live long enough.  And all you want to do is make things right for you and your loved ones.
    Isn’t that what anyone wants? To show love and be loved by those we care about the most? The people who gave us life and the children we gave life to.
    How do you feel if you see your child go without school clothes for this year or your elderly mother can’t afford her medication because she does not have health care and there isn’t a thing you can do for her because you have NO money?
    Wouldn’t you do everything you THOUGHT you could to change that for the better? That’s what I did.
    My only CRIME is that I was desperate to do something good for my loved ones and to improve my own life. Have  YOU ever felt that way? I bet you have a time or two. And I can assure you that there are people here that have thought of much WORSE things to do to put food in their kid’s mouth or to help a sick loved one than starting an online business with Harlan Kilstein.
    I had the best of intentions, but in this life good intentions are not good enough.
    I don’t wish this on anyone because you feel like a pure fool, failure in front of your family and friends. People question your ability to be a good judge of character.   Worse, you start questioning yourself, and that’s the most horrible feeling in the world.
    Never say never; anyone can be “gotten” or “fooled”, given the right state of mind and life circumstances.  Crack and drugs are no comparison to false hope and dreams given to a person in a time of despair.
    So before you judge people like me, think about the fact that you could be just as naive and blind as I once was.
    I know most here, if not all of us here have returned a purchased item before, after finding out it was not what you were made to believe it was, right? You were fooled, just like me.
    Secondly, I want to talk to all of you who have been taken by Harlan Kilstein or anyone else. Yes, it is true, you and I were scammed. Harlan Kilstein was not honest in his claims.  That entitles you to a refund. Had I known Harlan Kilstein’s REAL financial situation, I would have never, ever gave him any money!
    Had I known Harlan’s REAL business abilities, I would have ran the other way with turbo jets attached to my shoes!
    Had I known the SICK perversions and the stalking of sex abuse victims that this man has done, I WOULD HAVE DISTANCED MYSELF FROM THIS PSYCHO AS FAR AS POSSIBLE.
    Which leads me to question you Anthony Coyne; How can you do ANY business with a man who has heaped sick vitriol on women who say they have been sexually abused, knowing you have small daughters of your own???
    Remember when I asked you if you knew about what Harlan Kilstein was doing on those blogs and you said you didn’t care as long as he didn’t do it to you? How on earth could you think like that?
    You can’t be blind to the sickness this man carries within himself, can you? I don’t know what the truth is behind those women’s stories, but I do know that any man with a decent sense of human compassion would not harrass those women like that.  Is that anyway to talk to those women as a Rabbi?
    Is trying to push those women’s emotional buttons to the point of trying to push them over the edge anything you want to be associated with?
    These women are someone’s daugther, they could be YOUR daughters Anthony. Ever thought about that?
    One day I thought real hard about this whole thing, and I’m thinking if you’re willing to sell out your daughters then you will sell me out.
    Yes, those who claimed to be my friends weren’t. I honestly thought I had made at least 1 friend, Anthony and it is very stressing to me to realize that he may have just been using me for an agenda of his own, all the while making it seem that he is helping me.
    I have already came out publicly and I am no longer afraid. Something about finding out that you hold the power in your hands to send Harlan Kilstein to FEDERAL PRISON for a LONG time makes me feel a new sense of POWER. heheheheheheheheheheheh
    So I hope that my story encourages you to seek help in getting your refund and to let it be told so that others can be warned.  There are more of us who have been scammed by Mr. Harlan Kilstein, and there is only 1 Harlan Kilstein.  The man is more talk than action.
    Your fellow naive idiot sucker,
    Enigma Valdez
    Just because I don’t react or say anything doesn’t mean I don’t know what you’re trying to do
    Just because you don’t think I see what you did, doesn’t mean I don’t know
    Just because you think you’ve gotten away with it, doesn’t mean you did

    1. Hey Enigma
      I wanted to respond. I was one of the original posters referring to people falling for the coaching clubs.

      I wasn’t referring to you personal. I’m more overall referring to the general internet marketing industry as a whole.

      For example, my new $10,000 Product Launch program and how many jackasses will buy it believing it will set them free. In the end I’ll make a killing.

      In all seriousness, I totally respect your story. It seems you were genuinely hurt by HK and the droid is now taking up your case. I’m very happy to see this. There a thousands more like you.
      Thousands more who have given thousands upon thousands to us marketers never to actually make a dime.

      I think of my buddy Brad Fallon and his recent $100,000 per day CPA launch he backed with all his might. I don’t think a single person made a 10 cents in a day. Yet how many people reached down somewhere to find 2k they most likely didn’t have and plop it down for a promise.

      So again, I apologize. I wasn’t faulting you in general. I was faulting the system as it is.

    2. If anyone hasn’t actually seen a Kilstein product, let me just say…Droid is 100% right–his products are pure and total shit.  I took a look at about a half dozen of his products (sure as sweet fuck didn’t buy them). 

      What a waste of fucking time and HD space.  They’ve all been vaporized into the recycle bin as just bad memories, but I wanted to see for myself just how pathetically awful they were.

      1. There’s so much crap out there being touted as the next best thing since sliced bread.

        And it is easy to manipulate people who are desperate to make some kind of living.

        Not everyone likes to sit around watching TV all day.

        Another guy I can think of who needs to be put in his place is James D. Brausch – one of the worst scam artists I have even had the displeasure to encounter.

      2. What makes them even worse is that there IS so much good stuff out there, too, and the scammers are just making it worse for everyone.

  7. Enigma,
    First of all, thank you for coming here and commenting. Second, It’s very easy for anyone to fall victim to these jackholes. They know what to say and how to say it to get you to lower your guard. There’s a fine line between persuasion and manipulation and jackholes like kill-stein, Death Ray and others know exactly how to toe that line. You’re doing the right thing hoss, don’t cower back!

  8. Enigma,
    Don’t feel ashamed by what happened. I was there with you and the two dozen others in the first year of Shitstein’s copywriting program. And I was duped along with you.
    I’m not as brave as you, which is why I’m not coming forward under my own name. Shitstein is a vindictive bastard and I can’t afford the damage he might do to me.
    “Gurus” like Shitstein apply the same pressures and manipulation as cults. We’re taught to never question our leaders. The “successes” who came out of Shitstein’s copywriting program are those people who learned to compromise their ethics in the almighty pursuit of money. A good friend of mine once made the observation that the most successful people in MLM and IM are sociopaths. They either started as sociopaths or adopted sociopathic behaviours in pursuit of “success.”
    Nothing wrong with being a “failure” if the alternative is losing what makes you a decent human being.
    Unfortunately for people like you and me, this sentiment doesn’t go over well in money-making arenas. It’s labeled “loser speak.” The rationalizations that people in the industry use to justify their screwing over of others is downright scary.
    Making an example of people like Shitstein won’t eliminate all of these scumbags, but it sure makes it easier for me to get out of bed each morning knowing that at least of few of them are heading for a long-overdue reaming.

    1. @ChrisF, I’ve lost money too — on his phone calls and crap stuff, all he does is copy peoples stuff and thinks his great at making money. He is the amazing rip off couch, interesting that the Gary Bencivenga’s testimonial for kilthief on his website has gone…

      If they(gurus) are making so much money why have they got so much time to share it with us, Can you see Bill Gates, running seminars “how to setup your very own microsoft and make twice as much as me, or Steve Jobs ” How you too can invent the iphone like me”. – I can just see it…

      Kiltheifs new headline should be: ” If you are led by hearing stories of how easy it is to make a fortune from copy writing, then here is the fastest way you won’t make it and lose all your money in process” – Oh sorry by the way all the spaces are full and so I cant take your money but I’ll ring you tomorrow if I can make room. There’s always room at the Kiltheifs INN…

      There’s so many thiefs(guru’s) out there… I wonder how they sleep at night…

  9. daniel
    I am so glad, that so many people now realizing that there are so many scammers like HK.
    It seems that more and more are now brought to justice. If Harlan would have as much as a grain of sand of character, he would admit that he was wrong about scamming people and he would try to make things right and pay back what he swindelt by making many false claims. I am pretty sure, that most of the people who joined Harlan’s coaching programs where not very well of financially.
    They are more likely people who depend on their pay checks to pay their bills. It would be the right things for Harlan to pay back the money and even for a change find a real job! He should by all means find a decent occupation to make his  o w n  money and pay for his debts!
    Hell yeah, the rest of us is doing it everyday.  HARLAN GET REAL !
    Quit the shit on twitter and all the other websites. Get your sorry ass up and work for what you want. Quit thinking that other peoples money could translate into wellfare checks for Harlan,
    Just twittering around scamming lies and insults! This is  i n s a n e ! Again my advice for scammers: How about getting of your sorry ass and work! Nothing is free – you pay for what you get!
    Scamming money is the wrong thing to do – especially in these times. There a quiet a few of watchdog groups out there! Careful!
    D. forever

  10. As far as I can see, HK’s technique mostly consists out of making people feel bad about themselves.
    My grand encounter with him showed me that he’s just a wannabe – real money doesn’t boast – full of vulgarities and bad manners. His threats are vague, he hints and leaves people guessing what could be happening; just tells you how powerless he is.
    I’d be surprised to see evidence that he really is a licensed hypnosis therapist; his voice appears way too high and too shrieky for that. NLP is not hypnosis, but both practices leave much to be asked but more so do some practitioners.

    1. Well said. Kilstein’s limited bag of tricks includes separating the weak from the pack, driving home insecurities, and positioning himself as the “wise authority.” It’s all really very amateurish textbook mind control stuff. As froylein mentioned, it’s also hard to envision him a successful hypnotist, given his less than commanding voice and personality.

      Harlan’s most predictable routine is attempting to silencing critics by making a loud “scene,” as it is human nature to avoid confrontation. Unfortunately, since Harlan has been playing the numbers game in his quest for cash, he was certain to eventually run into people who would not fall for his scream and shout tactics. He is now finding them right here.

      This seems well-deserved, given Kilstein’s ability to be quite mean and vindictive.

  11. for the person that said he or she runs legitimate programs that teach people how to run an online business please email me at bozodclownhead (at)

    1. Comedy GOLD…Harlen ends with–“guys, what if it was your grandmother who got caught up in this crap?  Shame on you.”

      Props to Harlan, though…the scam portrayed in the youtube video is pretty damn vile. 

      Forced continuity is the newest out of control scourge of IMers.  It’s a fafourite of that asshole Russell Brunson.

    2. It’s a common technique to speak out against the very things you personally do (but maybe wish you didn’t). It soothes your conscience, diverts attention away from you, and makes people assume you’d never do the things you speak out against.

      Usually the opposite is true. Just look at the pastors who have spoken out against sexual immorality but were secretly engaged in homosexual activity. Would anyone ever have guessed? No, and that’s the point.


  12. “The one thing I’ve learned without being indoctrinated like most people face is that these people may appear to to be your best friend and the most trusting person on earth but they could not give a flying fuck about you in the end.” (quote taken from a commenter above)
    That is precisely the feeling I get from that Mr Schitmer from Australia.  Just another greedy wanker.  These guys simply don’t get how stupid they look now. Do they think that people aren’t going to expect anything or fight back when their trust has been abused by these wankers?  Some people might be deceived for a while but once they find their voice and someone else is prepared to listen these idiots are finished.  Thanks for being a good listener Salty.
    “real money doesn’t boast ..” (from above too) And what do these guys do ALL the time …. Boast about themselves, what they’ve got, who they have met, lalalalala as if people give a toss.  I watch programs like the Secret Millionaire in the UK and marvel at how many successful people are out there living anonymous lives and not being complete idiots about it.  They are the people that are to be admired not ego craving greedy bastards who manipulate people just to line their own pockets and feed their egos.  They are just wannabes who suffer serious jealousy issues.  What is even more funny is that most of them have probably borrowed loads of money to fund their pathetic charades of a life and are probably now more desperate than ever to continue to fund that lifestyle and maintain the charade as interest rates rise and interest in their shit falls dramatically.  It is an inevitable end isn’t it?  They delude themselves to believe that it will last forever.  
    They are slowly getting just what they deserve, bring it on.

  13. To the people who are coming on here saying that a high price in of itself is no reason to think negative of a marketer,  ask yourself these questions:
    Have you always just charged people or businesses with lots of money to burn those thousands?
    Mortgage is due, kid’s sick and needs to go to the doctor, the roof is leaking, and your transmission just went out. Mrs. Gullible is all excited about your product and wants to pay you her last $2k. Will you take it just this once? Nobody will know, right? Just this once, right?

    1. I’m one of the most relentless posters here. However, you can’t simply protect everybody alike from themselves. We can’t (and shouldn’t) save people from themselves if they are intent on simply throwing caution to the wind and being greedy. Let’s not lose sight of the reality that instead of focusing on their job, or their education, some people are consciously looking for shortcuts to leap over their fellow man with no effort and no contribution expended…and that says something about who they are. It doesn’t necessarily make them a victim, unless they are responding to lies and deceit.

      On the other hand, selling outright lies, using fake testimonials, fraud…that stuff…that is something that is reprehensible and there is no defense for. We can all get behind that. Otherwise, carried further…if someone goes to a Jaguar dealership (instead of say, a basic Ford dealership) with their entire student loan proceeds (and the salesman doesn’t grill them about where they got their money, their future plans, etc.) then it is the salesman who is to blame for their discharging their education money in the wrong place.

      Furthermore, some people can easily afford to buy some of these products, while others struggle to pay for them. It’s just not convention that sellers grill buyers before making a cash sale (anywhere), and in fact, buyers wouldn’t accept such a process. If we get hung up on this price nonsense, then we lose sight of the real issue: are people receiving what was promised?

      Frankly, there have been more than ample reasons for those appearing on this blog and little of it truly to do with price. That’s a fixation that really needs to take a back seat.

      That said, I’m no fan of Harlan Kilstein, and if Enigma here was sold a bill of goods, he deserves a refund.

    2. I mentioned this before but I will mention it again. The price of a product being high has nothing to do with the fact that it would classify as a scam or not.  Whether a product is $1 doesn’t mean it’s not a scam, nor does it mean it is scam because it may cost $100,000 dollars.  It all depends on the “facts”, promises, success, background, used to sell it, or sell its creator.

      One doesn’t  always need to purchase a product to know if what they are saying on the information they disclose is a scam (case in point Maria Andros).  From falsified metrics to her fairytale past.

      She claims a celebrity like following, but when you look at the available metrics of people that actually follow her tweets (Miss Queen of Social Nonsense), it is below average (~53 out of the 46K) and a far cry from a “celebrity” like following. Her video views and claims are total nonsense, the metrics don’t jive with the facts. The “keywords” (other then one headache video), are not even searched or have views based on the keywords she “optimized” them for (and this is clearly shown in the stats and data youtube provides).

      When you look at her ever changing past and claims, you get a clear dichotomy between her past, and what she claims is her past. 

      Like her supposed Ebay earnings, making $8K (I believe it was $1,300, $1,800, $5,300….yet in October ’07…link below her highest month was $4,800 and it’s past tense..but if she started in April ’07 no longer did it in Oct ’07…and had a maximum month of $4,800 ….how in mathematical hell do you claim 6 digits, specially when you claim in a video $1,300 first month and $1,800 second month….and the third month no longer matches…damn shame), to then claiming she made almost 6 digits in 12 months, then claiming to make a “significant” 6 digits in less then 10 months. And the dates on that Ebay “selling” are all over the map, she claims to have started in April ’07 (after watching the secret), to finishing in May ’07 (I checked her out before in ’07 and she didn’t have any mention of Ebay or the other crap she NOW mentions…which have become a part of her new past… I appended the link where I pull some of this information below).

      She is very detailed about her past work for MAC Cosmetics, and then you have her; “I have worked for the #1 companies in the Fashion World and was the Lead Marketing Director and Ambassador in charge of training and opening of new markets & product launches.” 

      Ambassador? #1 companies? How do you have multiple #1’s? How do you even quantify #1?

      The fact that she discloses “detailed” information (like her 10 years at MAC..which is the ONLY thing that stays constant from source to source), and then skips through details of the fake stuff (with the few details are everchanging), appears to be her MO (and the tell tale sign of a scam and a scammer…that and she learned from Kargorilla…so it’s par for the course).

      From a working at home real estate investor (which she dropped for 2009), making…you guessed it…6 digits (how do you even invest in real estate working at home??).

      Went on Television and was “interviewed by ALL the different shows” (note the lack of any and all detail..but the inclusion of every show). Didn’t even mention it on the youtube channel aBravehearTView. Why….because they might have actually asked.

      On a side, she went on that a braveheartTV youtube program (whose episodes received 216 views as of today and posted june 16, 2009), where she went from a 72 hour sell out, to a sell out in less then 2 days (I’m betting not even close to selling out).

      I think the biggest telling thing about her pathology is the following..

      “I actually went to elementary school with Tony’s wife Paige and she is a real sweetheart.”

      Tony Robbins wife is Bonnie…also known as Sage (she was not now or ever was Paige)…but apparently Maria misheard and put Paige, and then decided to go to school with her…hey why not…..who’s going to question elementary school…or details like her name….

      Sorry, my bad, I rambled.. That’s how you tell a product or a person (in which case you can say the product “mirrors” the person) is a scam, not its price.

    3. @ThinkAboutIt – As “yep” said, it’s not common practice to ask a person where they got the money they’re spending with you. Nobody does this.

      You talk about a person blowing his last $2,000 on something frivolous when he should be paying his mortgage, etc.

      Have you ever been in a liquor store before? I’m pretty sure there are some guys who’ve blown their last $20 on whiskey. It’s the same story on a different level.

      As _cartman_ says, the real issue is fraud, not price. That was why I commented about Jeff Walker’s video link in the first place. I wanted to know if “JimmyJames” (the commenter) was angry about the steep price or some kind of perceived fraud taking place.


      1. @Ryan  comparing people who were scammed thousands of dollars to people wasting their last $20 at the liquor store is not fair. It’s a lot easier to get a job at McDonald’s, sell some oranges on the highway, shine some shoes, cut grass or whatever and recoup $20 than it is to recoup $2,000 or even $10,000 like those people at the James Ray seminars.
        Yes I agree with you and others that you cannot ask every single person about their financial situation, but when you are purposefully targeting people who already are bad off, that’s when it is unethical.  From the few conversations on Harlan’s forums it was apparent that the majority of people were already in debt before coming to his program. A handful were on disability and they made this known within the first 5 or 10 minutes of their conversation with me and I have also seen posts from people saying how they would love to get out of debt and asking Harlan Kilstein if he could help them.
        Target marketing is both an art and a science. It is also one of the basics any competent direct response marketer has mastered.  If more than half of your buyers are people who are already in the poor house, “in debt up to their eye balls”, then either you’re a worthless marketer who does not know what he’s doing or you’re a crook.
        If you read the sales copy from a lot of these guys and girls you’ll see the same message over and over again “I was once like you dead broke and desperate , but now I’ve found the keys to the kingdom”. That’s not targeting people with money, sir. That’s making a direct effort to target those without.
        I am just waiting to meet some honest marketers with substance, but much like the Loch Ness Monster, I have only heard and read about such things.

        1. @ThinkAboutIt – Agreed. Targeting people who are broke, disabled, etc. and encouraging them to spend thousands with you is unethical.

          From my perspective, the honest marketers out there tend to keep a low profile — much like the Loch Ness Monster, they only “surface” periodically. :-)


      2. I know plenty of people online who say things like, “if you have to mortgage your home, or sell the car or get in debt in way to buy my stuff, you’re not the kind of people we want”.

        And that’s how it should be.

        That’s why I have a lot of respect for people like John Carlton, Doug D’Anna, and a few others who are like that.

  14. WOW,
    I am really glad that I found this blog!
    The thing was I was actually attracted to the tactic ten launch,
    but now I am greatly turned off by it!
    I will help your guys campaign however you need me to do so.
    In fact I might make some post on some good forums right now!
    Best of luck to you.
    Reading this, mad me laugh and it made me angry at the same time.
    I seriously hope this guy gets his due.

  15. Since all of these people appear to be scammers, who/what can we trust as a solid information source for starting an online business including, copywriting, list building, traffic generation, etc…?
    I know 6-7 figures online is possible with hard work, but which products are worth it?
    Thanks for responding, because it is people like me who need the help.

    1. Unfortunately J :: those aren’t questions with easy answers. I don’t claim to be a skilled Internet Marketer … I find it all very boring {as anyone who has tried to give me SEO tips behind the scene can attest}. My personal opinion is that you can only really learn by doing. The Droid officially endorses spending at least 4 hours a day on the Internet doing whatever you like :: and not buying ANY info products for at least the first two years.

      Legitimate success is about hard work and luck :: hard to shove that shit into an ebook.

      1. Oh yeah, question for Salty Droid here…I’m another “J” from your email who tried to get you to seo this blog to humor HK’s keyword loaders…while I was traipsing through both blogs trying to read your old posts lmao a few weeks ago…after I finally figured out you weren’t a mentally disturbed 16 yr old and I decided I was no longer afraid of you:).
        Looking at your email here…I want to ask an unanswered question to you again but feel free to edit this if it’s not appropriate.  What is the risk vs reward for HK here…doing nothing vs settling claims now…given his sins, what are the specific potential charges, by whom, and potential and anticipated outcomes for him?
        I believe the “J” above may be a troll here since he’s posted this exact question elsewhere in other threads here. 
        I’m going to post a reply to suspected trolls question and your answer along with your fan’s below.

        1. In reply to the question re solid information and learing by doing…you’d best be doing your research first on your target market, competitors, dissecting their strategies…then you develop your plan and start doing.  You need to be able to figure things out on your own. And in this industry, things move so fast that you are always shooting at a moving target.  There are no 3k special magic formula courses and seminars.  It’s more a like a chess game – you make a change, see how it works, and consider your next steps based upon the response to your prior changes.
          There is no bible or instruction manual for this industry, and if you need one, then this is probably not the right industry for you.
          Read the free materials on Google, Yahoo, MSN and stay away from blogs, forums and the current MMO quick cash method du jour.
          Track everything with fool proof tracking system and analyze data for necessary changes.  IMO.

        2. @explainthis :: The short answer {which conveniently doesn’t reveal my stratagems} … Harlan Kilstein should give Enigma his money back. He should issue a public apology for his existence … and he should run the away from me. I’m a freight train … and he is a one legged toad. Get the fuck out of my way toad .. or I’m gonna squish ya!

    2. J,

      Solid information? Depends on what one considers “solid information”…. It appears the new mentality on the internet is “I want to do something I have no knowledge about, because I hear you can get rich quick. Which is the exact mentality that breeds the Fleecme’s, Schirmer’s, Andros’ to provide the crap they provide.  When you breakdown what may sound “solid”, it starts to fall apart, as you realize there is more air then substance to the reality. Only when one is coming from a place of less knowledge, do they have to worry.

      If you have ever been in a Future shop (or some big name electronic store), and listen to some of those sales associates trying to be knowledgable, you will note that a lot have no clue about the  technology they are trying to sell and just present BS (that’s exactly what the goobers I mention above do). To some its crystal clear that they have no clue what they are talking about (that’s their natural funnel), to someone less knowledgable, it sounds like they are all knowing  goobers.

      TicTac X – Appear like your knowledgable (this automatically filters out all the people who are more knowledgable and automatically know you are full of corn poopy…Fleecme,  Andro, Shirmer (to name butt three) practice this.

      I “reverse engineered” Andros “top” strategy just to prove a point. It may shatter realities (to some who believe what she claims), so don’t read on if you don’t want your reality shattered. I could reverse engineer all her strategies into worthless piles, but I don’t have that kind of energy.

      Lets sart with the reality of SEO and ranking, and the real insignificance of ranking high for even a powerful keyword phrase. This is what her whole coarse (yes…I did spell that right), revolves around (well that and being a tree..and playing make believe…just like romper room for grownups).

      I started this dissemination 5 months ago. I went to google to search the terms home based business, and found a video that ranked on the first page of google. I checked its stats and data to see what key terms it ranked for (based on google search referrel views). The three phrases (below) were the highest referals (and continue to be to this day) for the most views by a single source based on the top 9 sources youtube uses to track  views (viral/other is 10th and if the highest single source of views are less then the lowest of the top 9 it gets lumped into that category…..although the “goobers” I mention above don’t tell you this).

      The google search results on the video (5 months ago and today). 

      home based business – ranked pg 1 third position…ranks page 1 last position today
      home based businesses – ranked pg 1 seventh position….ranks page 5 first position today
      home business – ranked pg 1 second position…ranks pg 1 fourth position today

      232Million search results (search results represent how many times the individual terms are used (not how many websites contain the term as Andros claims) , a searched word can be used 10 times in one page of one site, it is considered 10 results to google. Place the terms in quotes and you get the amount of times it APPEARS (approximate value) as an exact phrase (11.1Million todays date). This is only to give you an indication of how highly competetive this term is, because it does have high search volumes each month. Moving on…

      Back to the video I mentioned above….On page 1 of google under the terms ‘home based business’ (no quotes) is a youtube video (now remember this search volume is about 1000-2000 times more then the “extreme longtail keyword phrases” Andros tells you to optimize for which get search results of hundreds/mth, not the 100’s of thousands or millions/mth that these three terms get). The video should receive a significant amount of views based on the theoretical construct Maria Andros created. In reality, it doesn’t.

      The video now has 34,186 views as of todays date (uploaded on october 8, 2008  53 weeks ago. 
      The video received the following views on the following terms ( both global&local searches/month provided..using googles keyword tool)

      home based businessES – 203 views ( out of 110K&74K/month local&global searches)
      home business – 386 views ( 1.83&1.22 million/month local&global searches)
      home based business- 1741 views (673K&550K/month local&global searches)

      One month of searches for the three terms is over 2.5Million…the actual number of views in 12 months (for all three terms) 2, 300. So much for the importance of ranking on the first page of google (even on a mega search term).

      Tools I used..

      Video link to see data

      Click on Statistics and data under the video to see the details of the views.

  16. The topic of price is  a legitimate one. It is clear that this site is about exposing scams, it also confronts unethical things that may not be illegal, but just as damaging to the victims.
    You know as well as I do that it is easier to get a person to spend $20 than $10,000. Who are we trying to kid here? You know as well as I do, that you’re going to have to write that sales copy a tiny, tiny, tiny bit different to get them to pull out the credit card for $10,000 than you would for $20 dollars.
    Simply seeing a high price on an item by itself is not illegal nor unethical, especially if it is benefiting a person or a business much more than the money they have spent on it.
    I am talking about those marketers who are exploiting people’s misery. If you know you are not doing this, then you can exclude yourself from the picture, since you are an honest marketer.
    Yes I agree with the others that business is mostly hard work and luck. You have to be damn lucky to be able to sift through all the bullshit marketers and scamsters to get to a legit person. It’s like trying to find a needle in a haystack. No. More like digging for gold in a pile of maggot infested shit.

    1. I recall a few people in Shitstein’s copywriting program who “quit” only when they maxed out their credit cards. They were not in good financial shape when they started and being dinged $500 per month (later $1000 per month in the second year of the program), plus the cost of events and additional products, put them over the edge.

      Of course, Shitstein (and Tina Lorenz in the first year) kept us going with talk of easy big money writing copy. He taught us how to charge exorbitant rates without teaching us HOW to write good copy. He taught us how to manipulate prospects into giving us their money even if they weren’t qualified to be clients (either didn’t have the money, didn’t have a real business, or didn’t understand how to apply the copy they bought in their businesses).

      According to Shitstein, the only criteria we needed to concern ourselves with was “could the prospect pay us.” And once we had their money, it wasn’t our problem if what we delivered didn’t work. That was usually the client’s fault, not ours :-(

      Ryan Healy was one of Harlan’s mentees, but he had the good sense to drop out of Shitstein’s program after a few months and follow his own path. It’s obvious from his posts here that ethics are a major concern in his business.

      I only wish I had developed the same clarity of vision sooner.

  17. i was told I sucked at selling because I just couldn’t find it within me to pressure a guy into maxing out his credit card for my sales letter

  18. ChrisF above really hit the nail on the head about Harlan Kilstein. His whole premise is to “sell” people on the idea that he is some great, “mystical” copywriter in order to get them to give him their money. He is more focused on SELLING you than delivering something to you. That’s assuming that he “could” even write great copy, which remains yet to be seen. Kilstein is all show and no go.

    Just go to and ask copywriter Bruce Wedding or any of the other pros there why Harlan Kilstein is NOT welcome at their popular forum.

  19. hey harlan kilstein did you know saltydroid is going after James Ray? that’s some big time shit dontcha agree? either this saltydroid is insane in the membrane or this is someone very very very damn confident of his skills. all this James Arthur Ray traffic from the damn news does not help. goshness how you sleeping lately Harlan?

  20. seriously I can’t believe grown men are afraid of a high pitched flabby old man like Harlan Kilstein. What the hell are you afraid of – his breath? I know you were in the military, but seriously if you’re literally afraid of Harlan Kilstein then you literally should NOT have the right to flash that “Semper Fi” sticker on your car!! !! !! !! Come on ladies! Think of your military training!

  21. Hey thank you everyone for your support and input. I am pleased to report that so far, there has been no harrassment from Harlan Kilstein or anyone else. Aside from the love letter sent through UPS, I have not heard a peep from Mr. Harlan Kilstein.  I guess Harlan Kilstein knows when to pick his battles. He’s smarter than I figured him for.

    1. @Enigma :: We’ll have to wait and see :: maybe he’s yet to come out of the fetal position :: sucking on his knees :: crying out for mommy.

      Sometimes it takes him weeks to come up with a terrible plan that will explode in his face.

      Here’s hoping.

      1. Yes, Kilstein requires a lot of time in preparation to be an asshole. It’s not that he can’t just be one on a moment’s notice (after all, it’s the only constant in his life), but that he’s a perfectionist when it comes to being a mean-spirited bastard. Maybe one day they’ll make a movie about him and call it, “Mr. Hyde and Mr. Hyde.”

      2. It would be a very unwise decision for Harlan Kilstein to treat me unkindly. I’ve suffered ill health, plus my stepfather has had open heart surgery, and to top that off, turns out Harlan Kilstein scammed us of thousands of dollars.
        I don’t think Harlan Kilstein wants to fall into that trap of doing anything unkind to me. My trust and belief in a man I thought was my coach, mentor, and  friend has been betrayed along with being financially exploited and abused, just like Colleen, Liz , James Shore and others.
        Much like James Ray, Harlan Kilstein used cult tactics on me and his other victims. Much like James Ray’s victims, I feel troubled and uneasy.
        And, like many of the James Ray victims, I have already spoken with a mental health professional about this. There is a paper trail pointing directly to Harlan David Kilstein. It is being tracked, recorded, and officially documented.  Anything other than kindness could prove to be fatal mistake.

  22. I’ve been watching silently Harlan for the last few years in various forum and even getting on his email list, and boy, it was written on the wall , that he is a douche.
    No surprise, just sad that people lost and some will loose again. This is the types of of garbage that FTC should go after.

  23. So will Harlan Kilstein man-up and return this gentleman’s hard-earned money, or not? The poor fellow has been working multiple jobs, his father just had major heart surgery, and his family is barely making ends meet. It certainly seems like the honest and decent thing to do would be for Kilstein to return this gentleman’s money. It certainly appears that the promises upon which the transaction was based were not fulfilled. I am sure many people will be following this closely, and will inform others if a fair and just refund is not provided promptly.

    1. Well, we know Kilstein won’t pay based on passed judgments (and the corporate entity is most likely worthless, probably just a shell to filter payments). However,  if it can be proven that Kilstein engaged in fraudulent business practices (and based on the fraudulent claims used to sell his course it is a very likely possibility). It would nullify any asset protection his corporation would normally allow, and he could be held personally responsible for the debt, without protection from any corporate “veil”.

  24. Harlan Kilstein is broke and shuffling credit cards. Ironically, he is just like his own market, broke, tired, depressed and desperate. Exception – unlike his market, he has no conscience, heart, or soul. He is a mind programmed drone to someone else – ironic for an NLP expert.
    He probably won’t be able to pay anything, and instead have to sit back while everything is taken from him , including the privilidge of seeing daylight.

    1. I wish this were the case. Love to know if it’s true.

      But from his coaching programs alone he probably isn’t broke. 10 “students” per month at $1000 each = $10K/month. That also doesn’t include sales from frauducts — which he is bound to still be making despite Salty’s efforts here (tho frauduct sales are surely down).

      And then there is his copywriting, which I’m convinced he’s still doing. At a minimum of $10-15K per project, he’s still making income, even if he only wrote one project per month. These kinds of projects are still out there and Kilstein has a rep among copy buyers as a top copywriter, so he can get copywriting business.

      Not trying to defend him (he took far too much money from me to ever defend him again), but I want everyone to be realistic about the progress being made in bringing him down.

      Remember, not everyone does their due diligence before buying a frauduct or coaching service. So the suckers are still giving him money.

      1. ChrisF is surely right. Kilstein is probably still going about his semi-merry way, making money even in spite of himself and whatever it costs others. Hopefully, he will not be forgotten around here. Isn’t it just sad to see people continually milking the universe and having a field day while others suffer terribly? Maybe readers here could link to these pages and also tweet about them?

      2. Does anybody really buy his copywriting? I mean, really? As far as I’ve seen, he does neither possess the verbosity nor the dialectics it takes to piece together a convincing piece of written English. As for his reputation as a “top copywriter”: manus manum lavat.
        Two friends of mine were admitted to and put a lot of work into ad school to eventually even stand a chance in this market overcrowded by highly skilled, trained and creative professionals. I can understand the lure of what seems to be a path of making some easy money,  but, as I’ve said before, just because I floss and brush my teeth doesn’t mean I’m a dentist.

        1. Yeah, people buy Kilstein’s copy. I’ve met some of his clients and his copy rep is strong enough to get some of the top copywriters in the business to come to his copywriting seminars as attendees.

          Gary Bencivenga gave him a postive shout out at the Bencivenga 100.

          If you know the direct response copy world, it’s not hard to verify his cred as a copywriter.

          As a decent human being, however…

          No dice. He’s left more than his fair share of bodies in his wide wake.

        2. froylein is exactly right: look up manus manum lavat.

          That pretty much erases whatever limited smattering of “cred” Kilstein ‘might’ be perceived to have.

      1. I tried on a few other outfits but none of them felt quite right …  Anonyconned it is then, slayer of ssslassst thhhalking ttthhhulthit!

  25. Kilstein is a sociopath (psychopath) who must be dealt with in the same way he has dealt with most of the people in his life inlcuding innocent kids.

  26. Harlan Kilstein – there are people you cheated who are dying of cancer, and you know damn well who I’m talking about. If you don’t do anything else, you NEED to … you SHOULD give back that lady’s money in FULL! She’s DYING of CANCER for YHWH”s sake!

  27. Let us not forget about the plight of Enigma Valdez and his family. That $6,000 could sure help buy some much needed food and medicine right now. This is a really sad situation.

  28. Kilstein just tweeted this: “Need recommendations on fast and bright direct response graphic designer.”

    What next? Finger Healing Part II? Christian Blow Jobs, The Sequel?

    Let’s speculate.

  29. Kilstein Bubble Bath :: At first it seems nice … but it leaves you coated in grease and black stains.

    Buy Yours Today!

    Now only $39.00 per month for one bottle.

  30. Almost a month later, and no refund for this man. Wow.

    I guess Harlan needs Christmas money. I know he is (supposedly) Jewish, but maybe he needs the money to buy some Christians. You know, so he do more research on those “Christian Blow Jobs” he speaks so fondly of.

  31. Latest Harlan Kilstein tweet:

    “Price rise coming this weekend. A client manifested $7000 overnight. Another found a $1500 echeck overnight.” (drkilstein)

    “Found a $1500 echeck overnight?” That’s absurd. “Manifested $7000?” Come on!

    Interesting claims, huh? This guy is unstoppable.

  32. Ever heard of “Rip Off Report?” It’s a great site to complain about internet marketers if you have a problem with one.

    If you post a comment on that site, they NEVER take it down, and lots of people will see it. So it is a very good place to get consumer satisfaction.

    It’s incredibly easy, and only takes a few minutes to post a complaint if you have one.

    I’m really surprised nobody here has done that.

  33. harlan kilstein did not pay enigma’s money back . too bad guess enigma is just shit out of luck, eh harlan? thats right now you can sleep good at night cause soon he.ll just forget what you did to him and it will be biz as usual. mhm

  34. Stephen Pierce shills for Kilstein :: who is one of his “good friends” :: well isn’t that special? I guess Stephen can’t read :: or just doesn’t care.

    “Subject: Is This One Of The Secrets to My Success?

    Before I became a successful trader and marketer, I did an

    When I went to bed at night, I listened to different recordings
    while sleeping.

    The wrong kind of music put me in a bad and non-productive mood.

    Classical music put me in a creative and inspiring mood.

    And positive messages from motivational speakers got me to take

    My own experiments revealed to me what you feed your MIND is

    Now, one of my friends, Dr. Harlan Kilstein, has come up with an
    interesting approach for you to feed your mind towards success.

    I’ve known Harlan for about six years now and he’s a Master
    Hypnotist and expert in helping people change.

    If you’ve heard of “The Secret” or “The Law of Attraction” and the
    only thing you’ve been able to attract are more bills, it may be
    your subconscious programming.

    Harlan has created a very unusual way of delivering inspiring, take
    action messages that bypass the blocks of your conscious mind.
    And people are reporting dramatic results.

    Harlan’s messages are being delivered on multiple levels aimed at
    your right, left, and center brain. And the messages and stories
    plant a seed in your brain to take action and attract the important
    things you really want in to your life.

    I recommend you check out The Hypnotic Secret. I believe it can
    transform your life.

    {affiliate links removed}

    He’s giving away a “Melt Away Stress” recording just for visiting
    his site.

    You can’t lose.

    God Bless You and YOURS
    Stephen Pierce

    Just a side note – Although Harlan is a good friend, I’m still
    helping him promote his program through an affiliation that may
    result in commissions from any sales.”

    1. Stephen Pierce is now a Harlan Kilstein cheerleader? I guess it really is all about the commissions.

      Move Pierce straight to the negative column.

    2. Pierce was one of Shitstein’s first copywriting clients, so they’ve been wallowing in the mud together for years.

      Pierce does the old “I came up from the streets and even have a bullet in my leg to prove it. If I can do it, anyone can.”

      Yeah, another piece of work. Now this motherfucker’s gone all rightous Christian to help whitewash the evit shit he does and catapult himself into the ignorant Jesus-humper market.

      Lots of skeletons in his closet.

    1. Where did you hear Kilstein had jungle fever? Maybe it’s just his autoresponder that has jungle fever. On the other hand, if Kilstein really did have jungle fever, we’d all feel really bad about it (if it went away and left him able to speak).

  35. Here’s how Harlan Kilstein enjoys the cash he got from all the people who’ve forked over their hard earned money to him for whatever dream it is he may have promised them.

    It doesn’t exactly look like work, but it doesn’t look like fun either, unless you enjoy a mechanical lifestyle:


    1. @Bob: What, HK can’t even summon up the integrity to show a real day in his life? That was the lamest video I’ve ever seen, ever.

      1. He can’t show a “real day in his life” because it might make you REALLY vomit…and that would get in the way of your taking out your credit card.

  36. Hello, FTC: Meet the over the top douchebag, “Dr.” Harlan Kilstein:

    “How to turn yourself into a magical money magnet”

    “You’ll automatically draw friends, power, love and money into your life on command!”

    From the purveyor of the ebook (-seriously-) promoting “Christian Blow Jobs.”

    Not to mention the author of the sucker-seducing “Beach Millions.”

    AKA The Bullshit Artist of Boca Raton, Florida

Comments are closed.