Crystal Cox’s 5th Amendment Rights

Shut Up Already

You have no idea what you’re getting yourself into …”

… said some peeps from Crystal Cox’s past and present after I slapped her a couple times across her puffy dumb dumb face.

Whatevers :: says me :: you peeps got no idea what I’m already into … this one is nothing to me.

Crystal Cox’s freaknuts bullshit predates the Internet :: just ask anyone who has ever come within sniffing distance of her grandma pants. She’s mean :: and cruel … and in a surprise to no one who’s read a single one of her so-called sentences … totally fucking random.

The real The Crystal Cox Story is about local law enforcement’s repeated failure to stop someone who obviously needed to be stopped. But hundreds of ignorant stories by journalists :: bloggers :: and television halfwits … framed the story in undeserved 1st Amendment draperies.

You can count on one hand the number of people who wrote good stories about how extorting productive citizens shouldn’t really count as journalism. No one {my own self included} wanted to go deep enough to tell the full story of Cox’s destructive rampage.

For one :: if you’re not me … she’s guaranteed to lash out at you like an angry baboon riding an angry boar to the library’s free internets. For two :: even if you are me … you don’t really care about her because she’s a tiny fish {with a broken fish brain} in a big sea of evil sharks. Ain’t gonna win no Peabody for taking down one random psycho.

But alas :: she’s totally begging for it … and as per the usual … lawyers are making the situation much worse … so back we are to Crystal’s Cox.

Says The Cox on the header of her latest no hits hit webpage JenniferRandazza.com …

“Blog By Crystal Cox, Investigative Blogger, and Enemy of Marc Randazza, Husband of Jennifer Randazza, I Think?”

She thinks :: you know maybe not … but fuck it … it’s Spike Lee style journalism … any old address … get a mob and I’ll meet you there.

Jennifer’s married to Marc :: Marc didn’t want to take Crystal’s stupid case because it was stupid … ergo … Jennifer’s totally got it coming. She’s lucky she only has one deranged cyberstalker after doing something as dubious as marrying Marc {prolly for his big 1st Amendment lawyer monies}.

Worse still :: Jennifer and Marc Randazza have done some :: Dangerous TO the LibertieS of Fundmental 1031 BankrupPts :: breeding … forcing Crystal Cox Investigative Cyber Extortionist to do what any hero of free speech would do … register a website in the name of their three-year old daughter :: who can be seen here now forced into pigtail-incognito.

Wow … that is some “coxed up”™ shit right there. But it’s all for a purpose as Cox explained using something like English …

“I do however need to make money, so I am asking if you or anyone you know could use a very good search engine reputation manager. Not sure if  you ever researched that for your online presence.. not sure of what you think of David Aman excusing me of extortion, thing is search management is something tons of people due and for thousands a month per search term..”

Thing is :: Crystal Dipshit is right about that. The Internet is currently being used for extortion on a grand scale … and nobody gives a shit because everybody’s too busy arguing about the social issues of the 1950’s.

Here’s Crystal Cox’s trademarked version of creating a problem only she can solve :: posted as a pdf on Popehat … it’s about sluts and alcohol babies and oh my god.

This is what Matt Zimmerman and Trevor Timm at the Electronic Frontier Foundation had to say about the controversy during the ignorance shitstorm that followed the initial ruling {try not to fall asleep} …

Hernandez’s opinion is both more and less important than it might first appear. To begin with, Judge Hernandez plainly misapplied the Oregon shield law. O.R.S. 44.520 clearly states that “[n]o person … engaged in any medium of communication to the public shall be required by a … judicial officer or body … to disclose … [t]he source of any published or unpublished information obtained by the person in the course of gathering, receiving or processing information for any medium of communication to the public.” Whatever else she may have been doing, by gathering information and directing her analysis and commentary to the public – even if it contained factual assertions that were incorrect, and even if some statements were defamatory – Cox was certainly “engaged in [a] medium of communication to the public.”

The definition of “medium of communication” was left deliberately broad by the Oregon legislature: “‘Medium of communication’ is broadly defined as including, but not limited to, any newspaper, magazine or other periodical, book, pamphlet, news service, wire service, news or feature syndicate, broadcast station or network, or cable television system.”

{yawns rudely} Great amicus curiae brief there fellas :: maybe now you could write a cyber-memo addressing the whole “who could possibly give a shit?” situation.

More Popehat …

Crystal Cox now has formidable attorneys on her side — Eugene Volokh and the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who just lost a motion for a new trial and are now appealing the judgment against Cox to the Ninth Circuit. Though Crystal Cox is a vile, evil person, I have nothing but respect for Volokh (a Popehat favorite) and the EFF.

“Nothing but respect” does not describe my feelings about defending criminal-non-speech as speech … running a big risk of setting horrible precedent on the worst set of imaginable facts. It looks like str8 up media whoring to me :: against the interests of the all important 1st Amendment … and I don’t see how that can be respected.

This case was easily distinguishable from all future cases by virtue of being a pro se district court decision on a lunatic fact pattern. That doesn’t even count as precedent! Now Judge Hernandez has been forced to write a second ruling in answer to the lamestream media and the lawyers they attracted like moths to a toxic flame. The new ruling is still bad because the facts are still bad … but now its badness is slightly more serious. An appeal to the Ninth Circuit :: which is almost as random as Crystal Cox … could end in a horror show precedent.

What the fuck? This is how we’re going to fight for the first ever chance at honest to god free speech? By getting our lawyer panties in a bunch for the likes of Crystal Cox?

There’s a legal cliché about free speech not extending to shouting fire in crowded theatre … it also doesn’t extend to telling the theatre owner that if she doesn’t pay you $2500 per month you’re going to shout fire during every weekend showing of Hunger Games. That’s crime not speech … it needs to be stopped not protected.

The fight for free speech on the Internet is going to be about perception … not precedent. Most people are silenced by the threat of expensive litigation before anybody starts cracking the goddamn precedent … because the perception battle is being badly lost. It’s the temperature of the chilling effect that will determine how much of the new people power will be boot stomped back underground … and how much will survive to change the world.

The civil rights fight was all about picking the right plaintiffs … good people just trying to get about their normal lives. Historically the fight for free speech hasn’t been so classy :: you didn’t get to pick your plaintiffs … so most of them ended up being Larry Flynt. Protecting garbage speech … to protect the most important principle.

But great news … that’s completely changed! The decentralization of the media function means there is now gobs and gobs of important normal person speech being repressed by the forces of darkness and cowardice. People whose voices :: actions :: and intentions are well worth fighting for. People whose words are harbingers of big social wrongs in need of righting. Fighting for speech that’s worth fighting for … it’s like killing two pigs with one bird.

Crystal Cox and Julian Assange and Larry Flynt … are all right out.

>> bleep bloop

172 thoughts on “Crystal Cox’s 5th Amendment Rights”

  1. The US legal system defends extortionists, the slanderous, and the libellous, under the pretext of ‘free speech’!!! The story is maybe less about Crystal Cox who needs a gagging order or preferably a jail sentence, and more about the US legal system, and US lawyers who chase after amoral unethical defence work on the flimsiest of pretexts.

    That being said, Assange, Cox, and Flynt are different cases – putting them in the same bucket is a superficial treatment.

    1. @Winston Smith ::

      Well actually the “US legal system” slapped her str8 down without mercy … exactly like she deserved.

      This is about the proper allocation of the incredibly scarce pro bono resources available to defend something as worthy of defense as free speech.

      Defending speech in the Internet Age is all about making big :: perception shifting :: statements … cause you could never hope to offer services to everyone who deserves them at this point. Making big statements is all about picking the right plaintiffs at the right moments. Based on those rules … defending Cox is hurtful to the cause.

      The Internet necessitates a reboot of old thinking :: otherwise they might as well change their name to Frontier Foundation … so their branding will more accurately reflect their place in time … truth in advertising.

      boom!

      1. @SD,

        “otherwise they might as well change their name to Frontier Foundation”

        How deeply ironic…and sad.

        I’ve always felt hugely supportive of the EFF…and never thought I’d see a day where they would do more harm than good…

        But today is that day.

        1. @Walt,

          “I’ve always felt hugely supportive of the EFF…and never thought I’d see a day where they would do more harm than good…

          “But today is that day.”

          Yep. Ditto.

  2. There’s a legal cliché about free speech not extending to shouting fire in crowded theatre … it also doesn’t extend to telling the theatre owner that if she doesn’t pay you $2500 per month you’re going to shout fire during every weekend showing of Hunger Games. That’s crime not speech … it needs to be stopped not protected.

    QFT. It’s maddening that otherwise sensible people would fall for this scam.

    1. @Holy Sh- ::

      If you mean the EFF … then I agree. But if you mean the victims of Cox’s shenanigans … then I disagree. You don’t really “fall for” extortion … you feel compelled.

      For instance :: if Kevin Padrick’s comments to the NYT about how badly his business was damaged were accurate … then paying off Cox might have been the economically efficient decision. Spending 100K to get an uncollectable judgement is a very unappealing alternative … as is having your name destroyed by a nut case.

      I know the names of people who have actually paid up … and if they’ll give me permission I’ll gladly print their stories. And anyone else who wants to complain to me about being extorted by Ms. Cox is welcome to … I’ll leave it to each individual to decide about going public … or if they want their names reported by me to any law enforcers who happen to want to listen.

      1. @SD,

        Thank you for saying this, SD. I had wondered if there were any actual paying victims. On the one hand, SHE seemed so absurd I thought maybe not. But on the other hand, she obviously has money to buy web domains by the bushel and web hosting and time to, ahem, “blog”. So there’s that. And she certainly brings on the crazy and teh reputation damage and the family intimidation, so there’s that.

        So now I now.

        She’s victimized people in multiple ways, including allegedly receiving extorted payments.

        I wonder if anyone will actually investigate. There seems to be a big “look the other way” going on by the authorities to Internet financial crimes.

        Since every damn dollar honest people lose to IM fraud or extortion is just written off on their taxes anyway, you’d think the government would have some incentive to stop it.

      1. @ben Online Reputation Brisbane ::

        I assume you’re spam :: but from your site …

        “Our monthly plans are competitively priced and our reputation management services are an investment that you simply can’t afford to neglect.”

        Sounds good :: hopefully you’re price competitive with The Cox or you’re going to be driven from the “market” … because she’s an action taker.

        How will you manage my reputation?

        – Develop a robust ORM (Online Reputation Management) strategy to combat negative publicity
        – Learn to monitor what is being said about your company day or night
        – Leverage the Internet to your advantage and not the advantage of others
        – Build strong safeguards against negative messages and comments

        Totally. That makes perfect sense to me now. Why didn’t I think of leveraging my advantage and not the advantage of others sooner?

      2. @SD, Maybe it will all become clear to you after you read whatever is behind the “Why We Important” tab.

      3. @ben Online Reputation Brisbane,

        Hey Ben.

        I don’t think online reputation management per se is a scam. I mean, not everyone has the expertise and interest in monitoring Google alerts, and such, plus one may have left some oh … say … ill considered comments or what have you in the past. :P And then there’s actual libelers like Crystal Cox to contend with.

        So I see nothing wrong with your line of work. Further, I don’t think it’s spammy to have a link back to your internet business especially when you’re here commenting on a story that is directly relevant to your industry.

        Word of warning though: if you are scammy, I wouldn’t attract the attention of the droid.

  3. Man, I was all set to be a fan of the Salty Droid, and subscribed after a commenter on the Popehat post had some very flattering things to say about It. But the ignorant insinuation that Eugene Volokh is a “media whore,” and that there are not legitimate First Amendment aspects to the Cox case that just might make this a case well worth taking up on appeal, and the trashing of Julian Assange, who, similarly to MLK Jr., may or may not be guilty of sexual sins but who probably deserves a Nobel Peace Prize, leaves me deeply skeptical.

    1. @John Kindley,

      I’ll confess I don’t know Eugene Volokh. Sure, I can look him up, but I’m not going to just now so I’ll just admit I don’t know.

      I know a bit about the Salty Droid.

      As I recall it, the Droid’s issues with Julian Assange don’t have to do with the allegations of “sexual sins”. I would have to check the article(s) again, but I believe @SDs main beef with Assange was that what he was doing wasn’t nearly as worthy as it might seem. In other words: airing out several nations’ dirty laundry isn’t really the same as uncovering the Watergate scandal.

      I haven’t decided whether I disagree, partially agree, or fully agree with SD regarding Julian Assange. Assange isn’t something I’ve gotten really into. It seemed interesting for a while. Now it seems less so.

      OTOH, Crystal Cox–please give me a moment before we discuss the 1st Amendment issue to say this: Crystal Cox is an idiot. I mean a loud-mouth, sort of scary, sort of sad iD10t. As evidence to support that point, please go look up all the web pages she’s made and the emails she’s actually written.

      But on the 1st Amendment: it’s important. It doesn’t cover all speech. The canonical example is “shouting fire in a crowded theater.” That is to say, the 1st Amendment does not give you the right to go into a crowded theater full of people and yell “Fire!” really loud just to cause a panic. So, instead, if you did that, it might be considered a crime. I’m not sure which crime. Probably “inciting to riot” or something like that.

      So, if the 1st amendment can’t cover all speech–(And it can’t. I mean–really the example above is just the standard one. And lots of people smarter than either you or me have thought about this for at least hundreds or maybe about 1000 years. Certain parts of our legal system are older than others)–then we are left with the sticky mess of determining which speech is covered and which isn’t.

      What @SD was getting at is that what Cox was engaged in was extortion through the web. Cox would put up a page saying all sorts of horrible things about a person or organization thereby destroying their reputation. Then Cox would fire off an abysmally worded email saying, through broken English, that she was an “investigative blogger” and also a reputation manager. And she’d offer to fix that person or organization’s reputation… for a fee. For a non-trivial-kinda-large fee.

      Now think back to the TV shows where some big thugs walk into a newly opened butcher shop or bakery story and say mean threatening things like “gee, this sure is a nice shop you have here. It’d be a shame if something happened to it. [crack knuckles/look menacing]”. See? That’s called extortion.

      Even if you do that sort of thing with just words and communication, it’s still extortion. So it isn’t protected free speech.

      @SD didn’t say “screw free speech”.

      @SD said

      The civil rights fight was all about picking the right plaintiffs … good people just trying to get about their normal lives. Historically the fight for free speech hasn’t been so classy :: you didn’t get to pick your plaintiffs … so most of them ended up being Larry Flynt. Protecting garbage speech … to protect the most important principle.

      But great news … that’s completely changed! The decentralization of the media function means there is now gobs and gobs of important normal person speech being repressed by the forces of darkness and cowardice. People whose voices :: actions :: and intentions are well worth fighting for. People whose words are harbingers of big social wrongs in need of righting. Fighting for speech that’s worth fighting for …


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

      1. @Wyrd, @John Kindley,

        “In other words: airing out several nations’ dirty laundry”

        Not to mention their field operatives, so they and their families can be hunted down and brutally killed.

    2. @John Kindley ::

      Was it for protecting free speech that Julian’s lawyers called the women accusing him of serious sexual crimes … “CIA honey pots?”

      Or was that media whoring?

      I don’t know … but in my version of being an activist {and/or a gentleman} that’s not how one talks about victims {and/or ladies} … maybe I’m wrong though.

      I’ll just pretend like you didn’t compare Assange to MLK based on them both liking sex … else my head will explode.

      Here’s you on your blawg …

      What I want to write about here is the unwarranted and troubling expansion by some of the “criticism” being directed at Cox to encompass Eugene Volokh, the UCLA law prof and blawger extraordinaire who is representing her on appeal to the Ninth Circuit.

      On second thought, screw it: I’ve already written about this elsewhere. (Like I said, I don’t get paid enough to write this blog.) See Marco’s comment at Popehat, where he wrote “If this thing goes to the 9th Circuit, I’m afraid it will be an ego trip and not a real desire to clean up the state of the law,” and my comments following; Marco’s comment at his own blog, where he wrote that I was “understanding it incorrectly,” and my replies thereto; and my comment this morning at The Salty Droid.

      I’m pretty sure you need not air quote “criticism” … I think the description “media whore” most def qualifies as criticism … even if John Kindly from South Bend disagrees.

      Man, I was all set to be a fan of the Salty Droid …

      Well that’s sad. I guess I’ll have to make do with the tens of thousands of other readers gathered here who seem to like the feeling of being left more skeptical than when they arrived.

      Toodles.

      PS :: Unlike most of the other peeps here :: I do know who Eugene Volokh is … I very much know. Jason has mad respect for him … and he is no doubt a superior person. I read the Volokh Conspiracy … one of whom …

      http://volokh.com/author/orin/

      … was a law school professor of mine way back when. Apropos of fake roboting :: the class was Computer Crimes :: and it was good … he brought this guy in to do a hacking demo for us … fascinating.

      So writing that paragraph made me feel all sticky inside … he’s kinda like the last person I’d ever want to mention. But if you’re not going to call them like you see them … you might as well stop calling them. I hope that Professor Volokh would agree.

      1. @SD,

        While I consider Julian Assange to be a media whore and a really bad poster child for free speech, I am keeping an eye on his case for one reason–and that’s to see how far the USA will go in attempting to get Assange in its clutches. (I almost said jurisdiction, but then I realized that if the Brits extradite Assange over to the Swedes, and the Swedes turn him over to the USA**, Assange will likely end up in Gitmo.) My concern is that if Assange does end up under US authority, it’s going to cause a lot of Internet (and other) disruption. I honestly don’t think the government has taken this into consideration, thinking, instead that going after Lulzsec is enough of a shot over the bow.

        And let me reiterate, I think Assange is the worst kind of media whore.

        **According to one of my Swedish friends, there’s been some discussion in Sweden that the current (conservative) Swedish government might let the USA just come in and kidnap Assange to (likely) Gitmo, and avoid all sorts of messy legal problems. Just a thought.

        1. @mirele,

          If Assange actually winds up in Gitmo, then that’ll be a story.

          And all us liberals will get irate and we’ll foam at the mouth for his release.

          Given that. And given the fact that the U.S. government knows that. And given the fact that doing that wouldn’t actually prevent wikileaks from being able to keep doing what it’s doing…

          I don’t actually think it’s likely that the U.S. government will do something like put Assange in Gitmo or try to assassinate him or whatever. Instead, I expect they’ll just keep on closely monitoring him indefinitely.

          IMHO Assange isn’t nearly as dangerous to the Great Big Powerful U.S. Government as you think he is.

          Finding out that Hilary Clinton said some mean things about an ambassador just is not the same as finding out that a president had operatives break into a democratic headquarters (see Watergate scandal). They’re not even close.

          The U.S. government’s greatest weapon in controlling its populace is the apathy bread from that mind control we all freely take part in on a daily basis: the Entertainment Industry.

          But when I write it like that, it makes it seem conspiratorial as if the Government’s behind it. It isn’t. Government sponsored ads and shows usually look dumb. The Entertainment Industry is something we citizens participated in the creation of by repeatedly saying, “yes, I like that”. So now you can always choose if you’re going to watch C-span or a re-run of Murder She Wrote.

          It is also this same state of affairs that allows Oprah to have high market share. It’s this way of things that lets James A. Ray and the rest continue.

          So here you are worried about what the evil U.S. government might do to Assange. Well, true it would be a travesty for the U.S. to deprive him of liberty just because he airs dirty laundry.

          But isn’t it some sort of travesty that a veritable LEGION of boiler-room telemarketers are permitted to swindle poor, sad, lonely people out of money day after day after day?

          There are laws against that sort of thing. But they are not very muchly [sic] enforced.

          So it goes.


          Furry cows moo and decompress.

        2. @mirele ::

          If they take him to Gitmo then everyone will freak out … including me. The lame excuse they use for that abomination is that we don’t have proper legal protocols for dealing with foreign terrorist type situations. They’d be stabbing their own propaganda in the face if they took someone there who needed to be brought up on normal charges. And forget the Internet … it’s Europe that would freak out … setting progress on extradition treaties and procedures way back.

          Never gonna happen.

          But it seems they’ve found chat logs between him and Manning from before and during the data breaches …

          http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/12/manning-assange-laptop/

          … so ultimately I suspect that he will be extradited and tried in the US.

          Talking about exposing US national security secrets :: to a confused boy solider in a war zone … over fucking jabber? He deserves whatever he gets … “media whore” doesn’t even begin to describe his level of awful.

          1. @SD,

            “But it seems they’ve found chat logs between him and Manning from before and during the data breaches …

            “… so ultimately I suspect that he will be extradited and tried in the US.”

            I hope so.

            And he did it over Jabber? LOL Smart.

          2. @SD, I have lots of experience with online chat…going back to 1995. In fact, there’s a group of us that have moved from one IRC network to another over the years…we also take an inordinate interest in a certain space alien cult. That said, I’m going to be VERY skeptical of chat logs without provenance because I know how easily they can be forged.

            While I would *hope* our government wouldn’t be so stupid as to try and kidnap Assange or stash him in Gitmo, I have to say this… if you went back to 1995, would you have imagined that we’d be doing this? Kidnapping people, stashing them in Gitmo and basically torturing them? I wouldn’t have. I also wouldn’t have thought our government would hunt down an American citizen and kill him outright instead of bringing him back to the States for a trial, but that’s happened as well.

            So, what I’m trying to say is nothing is going to surprise me on this. However, if Assange (who is thinking about running for the Australian Senate at the next elections) decides he is going to run against my favorite anti-cult Senator Nick Xenophon, I’m going to have to cut him.

            1. @mirele,

              Well,

              Whatever it is that the U.S. either is or isn’t doing, it isn’t new. I mean–things change over the decades, sure. Some decades, the U.S. does less evil things. Other decades the U.S. does more. But your post makes it sound like things have recently gotten much worse.

              I might believe that, but then I remember that the U.S. has been supplying guns and support off and on to various dictators for many, many years.

              The Allied forces once fire bombed Dresden.

              The Vietnam war. Whole lotta really bad crap happened there.

              There’s a whole lot of evil shit that goes on all the time. You’re going to have to try very hard to convince me that we are currently experiencing a rapid increase in evil shit done by the U.S. government.

              It seems more likely that you’ve recently become much more aware of certain specific evil things.


              Furry cows moo and decompress.

        3. @mirele,

          “see how far the USA will go in attempting to get Assange in its clutches”

          I think they should have ordered his assassination after he published the name of Afghani informants, many of them, putting them at grave jeopardy (people actually died), and reducing the US’s intelligence gathering capability there. The war isn’t going as well now as it was and who know show big of a factor this massive leak was in that.

          The fact that the U.S. did not have Assange killed — which, to reiterate, I would have — shows just what great restraint they have compared to other nations.

          You think Russia or France would have stood for that? The Kremlin under Putin (and whomever: it was pretty much always the same) assassinate people in and out of Russia like it’s going out of style and France blows up Green Peace Activists, for goodness sakes.

          That said: don’t assassinate him, individual people. Just ridicule the cad.

      2. @SD, @John Kindley,

        “So writing that paragraph made me feel all sticky inside … he’s kinda like the last person I’d ever want to mention. But if you’re not going to call them like you see them … you might as well stop calling them. I hope that Professor Volokh would agree.”

        I agree. I’m all about that in fact.

        John, didn’t you and I have a similar discussion about someone we mutually like and respect? Anyway. If you choose not to love the Droid, that’s fine, but maybe you could try this: Agree sometimes, Disagree others, and Argue on occasion (I love emulating the CC caps! I think That’s My new Thing).

        1. @Christoph, I didn’t say I was so offended by the Droid’s description of Volokh that I’d never be back. I get the point that there may be other speakers out there who are more deserving of elite pro bono legal services than Crystal Cox. But I’ve read Volokh’s briefs in the district court, which raise the same arguments that will presumably be raised on appeal. Those arguments are much bigger than deciding who is and who is not a journalist. Volokh argues that for First Amendment purposes there shouldn’t be any court-determined distinction between who is and who is not a journalist anyway. I agree with that. He also argues that the First Amendment requires a finding of at least negligence for liability for defamation. The jury instructions that were given in the Crystal Cox trial did not require the jury to find any fault whatsoever on her part to find her liable for defamation. If Volokh’s arguments prevail on appeal it will be a victory for the First Amendment. That doesn’t mean Crystal Cox would be off the hook. If she gets a new trial there’s a good chance she’d still be found liable, but under the proper standard.

          1. @John Kindley,

            “If Volokh’s arguments prevail on appeal it will be a victory for the First Amendment.”

            That’s a big if.

          2. @John Kindley,

            It seems to me that extortion could be sufficient to show negligence, given that it is an intentional act. Perhaps that is how the jury perceived what transpired. In that case, while the instructions might be a procedural issue, the basis for the jury’s determination may still have fully satisfied the contention now being raised on appeal.

            1. @Joe, Extortion would be sufficient to show not only negligence, but malice, which Volokh actually argues was the proper standard to use in her case. But proving that could be difficult. I would think you would have to show that at the time she was posting all that stuff on the internet her intention was to eventually shake the victim down, and not just that it popped into her head sometime later. In any event, if you get a Ninth Circuit decision squarely holding that negligence at a minimum is required in all defamation cases that would be a victory for the First Amendment, regardless of what happens to Cox in a subsequent trial. And I don’t think the Ninth Circuit can say here that it was “harmless error” — that given the evidence presented at trial the jury would have found her liable regardless of the standard used.

    3. @John Kindley (and everyone who’s commented here),

      I’m sort of in a bind here because I like and respect:

      – Salty Droid
      – Eugene Volokh
      – and John Kindley

      One thing I got to say before I get started, Droid, is I hate your voting down and hiding comments thing. I *want* to see what the dick heads say. That’s the whole ratonale of your site: calling them out.

      And John Kindley, while I vehemently disagree with him about Julian Assange, is a serious person with legitimate political views, a lover of free speech, and seems to me to be honest, if not always correct. There’s no reason his comment should be hidden. I hope you get rid of that ‘feature’. That’s annoying.

      All that said, I think Eugene Volokh is wrong here and Droid is exactly right in substance and nailed it in this post (I feel like quoting two thirds of it), but I don’t think he understands Volokh’s motive. Like John, I think he’s sincere.

      But maybe he thinks he’s such a good lawyer he can make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. I think he’s be better off waiting for a nice piece of cloth from China, of which there are many.

      “”

      1. @Christoph ::

        You can see what voted down dick heads say … just click. The voting is essential to the proper functioning of the conversation and it’s never going away.

        Substantive comments :: no matter the point of view … almost never get voted down here.

        Given all the context of the situation :: which John Kindly can’t possibly understand because he just arrived on page 850 of a complicated book … that comment got smushed for good reason. If he’d have just criticized my opinions he wouldn’t have got the vote down. But sounding like you’re camped atop of a permanently solidified position … and calling me “ignorant” … is a little too close to our regular problem.

        Plus … I voted it down {my vote only counts for one vote too} … because I found the Assange MLK comparison totally fucking ludicrous and somewhat offensive.

        1. @SD,

          “Plus … I voted it down {my vote only counts for one vote too} … because I found the Assange MLK comparison totally fucking ludicrous and somewhat offensive.”

          Well me too. But I still think the voting feature without the hiding feature would be vastly preferable. Anyway, your site, your call. And you’re right that we can click on the comment.

          In fact, I almost always click on those hidden comments. I can’t say I agree that they are hidden appropriately almost all the time: a lot of times they have something valuable in them even if only exposing ignorance.

          Anyhoo, one last word for John: He doesn’t understand the context of this site, quite probably, but he has followed the Crystal Cox story very closely — albeit reaching some of the wrong conclusions, in my opinion. :P

          And Julian Assange is to Martin Luther King what Rhonda Byrne is to Carlon Haas.

          1. That was me. Not sure why, but sometimes my name disappears from the Name box between placing comments, and other times not.

            1. @Christoph,

              Per your convo with @Lanna:

              @Christoph wrote:

              And I’ve got one of Dan Kennedy’s books — which, by the way, directly (and I mean directly) led me to finding the love of my life, and enjoying the best six years of my life. I literally owe more actual received happiness to that one Dan Kennedy book than I do to any piece of information I’ve ever received. Something I’ve never thought about before, but it’s absolutely true.

              Hang on–reading the Dan Kennedy book somehow, perhaps inadvertently, lead to you finding the love of your life. Ok, awesome!

              But later

              @Christoph wrote:

              Look, I understand the suicide from LGAT IM cult thing. To be frank, it (IM industry) was a significant part of what led to the downfall of my life, including losing the love of my life. I suspect this will end in suicide. It’s a spiral I can’t stop anymore.

              So you are saying that IM lead you to losing the love of your life and you’re on a downward spiral now? Well, that’s horrible.

              I don’t know you, or your long story. I don’t personally know Dan Kennedy either. I do know exactly where I heard about him though. I heard about Dan Kennedy from some Internet Marketers selling the secrets of snazzy Internet Marketing, etc, etc.

              Dan Kennedy himself may not be involved directly in IM, I don’t know. But the whole self help guru world is culpable in the sick machine that helps perpetuate the IM scam Universe at least insofar as those individuals (like Dan Kennedy or Rich Dad Poor Dad author Robert Kiyosaki or even the All Mighty Oprah) do nothing to separate themselves from the more direct, obvious predators.

              Would you, personally, have wound up getting involved in IM had you not previously been influenced by Dan Kennedy?

              And as for that downward spiral–it really doesn’t have to end that way, dude. If you’re still out and about typing and texting away, then there is definitely still hope.

              Cut losses. Talk to friends or family. GET OUT. Become a devotee of the @SD site. Get mad at the IMers instead of resigning yourself to an ugly fate. And stuff.

              please

              Furry cows moo and decompress.

              P.S. I just clicked over to Dan’s GKIC web page.

              Dude, since I came to the Salty Droid website, I’ve looked at dozens of different IM-MMO introductory sites–the kind that act as the start of the “funnel”.

              Dan’s site looks like a slightly more polished version of every single one of them. Right down to the little arrows pointing you to a specific part of the page.

              Don’t kill yourself. Just help @SD kill as many heads of the IM-MMO hydra as possible.

            2. @Christoph,

              “Hang on–reading the Dan Kennedy book somehow, perhaps inadvertently, lead to you finding the love of your life. Ok, awesome!”

              No, not in the slightest inadvertently.

              So you are saying that IM lead you to losing the love of your life and you’re on a downward spiral now? Well, that’s horrible.

              It was a major factor. I made some terrible decisions as a result.

              I had a job selling advertising — which I was doing well at in large part to the copywriting skills from Dan Kennedy — for a major company, but I found some ethical problems there, specifically misrepresentation (to the sales force, which we then passed on). I objected, they told me to drop it, I put it in writing, and got fired.

              I did not lie to my customers. I made sales honestly. When I found out the company was lying to me about our circulation numbers being audited when, in fact, the audit company at some point refused to vouch for our numbers, we went our separate ways.

              Instead of getting another job though, I wasted a long, long, long time and money and so on, on studying IM and such, and became a burden on her financially and otherwise, and … anyway. After a long time of this, and other things, we broke up. I was so broken at that point I haven’t worked since. Years ago now. There’s more to it, but that’s the IM-related part.

              Dan Kennedy himself may not be involved directly in IM, I don’t know. But the whole self help guru world is culpable in the sick machine that helps perpetuate the IM scam Universe at least insofar as those individuals (like Dan Kennedy or Rich Dad Poor Dad author Robert Kiyosaki

              Robert Kiyosaki is a literal fraud and lied over and over again about his autobiography. However, while I’m sure many even most people who study Kennedy’s materials don’t get all the positive results they’d like, am I to overlook the fact that I learned a hell of a lot from him?

              All of it extremely usable to me?

              Personally and in business and job search besides?

              I mean I can’t pretend that didn’t happen just to get along here. It did happen. Dan Kennedy’s work was really helpful to me, far more so than the pittance I ever paid him.

              Would you, personally, have wound up getting involved in IM had you not previously been influenced by Dan Kennedy?

              Well, maybe not, but the fact that some guy taught me useful writing and marketing skills doesn’t make him responsible for my bad business decisions in the future in other industries.

              Yes, I made two websites for myself, both of which achieved their objectives, based largely off of what I learned from him (a personal and a job search related website). But most of what I learned was copywriting. I did tons of offline stuff, more than the people I worked with.

              I think it often works better: letters, faxes, handwritten notes thrown in, etc. And sure, some emails and such.

              And as for that downward spiral–it really doesn’t have to end that way, dude. If you’re still out and about typing and texting away, then there is definitely still hope.

              I’ve tried for over 2 years. I’ve even formally “sought help”. Nothing worked. There is no solution for my specific problem within the realm of life. I wish there was, but there isn’t. It’s my psychology as much as anything. Other people have been through far worse. But this I can’t handle.

              Cut losses. Talk to friends or family. GET OUT. Become a devotee of the @SD site. Get mad at the IMers instead of resigning yourself to an ugly fate. And stuff.

              please

              Thanks for the thought. Alas 20 million dollars wouldn’t solve my problems. And I’m down to 20.

              As for talking to friends and family, have done that a lot — driving most away. The reality is I’ve surpassed the limit of what I can deal with and live effectively. No one has infinite resilience. And perhaps I didn’t have much to begin with.

              It’s more complicated than I’ll get into here. There’s just something I can’t live with. Tried. Really did.

              Dude, since I came to the Salty Droid website, I’ve looked at dozens of different IM-MMO introductory sites–the kind that act as the start of the “funnel”.

              Dan’s site looks like a slightly more polished version of every single one of them. Right down to the little arrows pointing you to a specific part of the page.

              Kennedy started as an old school marketer, and a good one, and an author … I think he moved into these websites because that’s just where the industry went.

              But you know what?

              Both the (two, now that I think about it, but the older one) personal websites and job search website would have several elements of what you’d think was slickness or whatever on it.

              But it worked.

              And I didn’t intentionally lie to people. I put everything in the most persuasive way I could manage, yes, using copywriting techniques based on human psychology. I am not ashamed of that. At all.

              I mean, using catchly longer headlines, bolding, italics, highlighting, and some poetic language. Gee, dude, that isn’t unethical.

              Even if it’s slick. That IS marketing.

              It’s the lying that’s the problem.

              Don’t kill yourself. Just help @SD kill as many heads of the IM-MMO hydra as possible.

              I appreciate your concern. You’re a good ape. If your religious, forgive my now-revealed atheism. :P

              I support Droid’s work. I think it’s wonderful. I don’t agree with him about everything, but I think he and I have a lot in common. We hate financial liars that don’t care about people. That’s why I left my last job. That’s the bond we share.

              But that is not the main thing I would devote my life to were I planning a future.

              Thanks for being a cool guy. I could tell you were earlier when you first replied to John, who I think is also a good dude in his way.

              1. @Christoph ::

                It’s impossible to put the blame for all the IM slime on to one person :: but if you forced me to pick just one person … I’d choose Dan Kennedy.

            3. @Christoph, You should reconsider whether you want to bestow credit to Dan Kennedy for what you perceive to be your “aha” moment.

              It would be like Chef Emeril Lagasse announcing: “Say what you will about Jeffrey Dahmer, but what I learned from him about cutlery changed my life.”

              A common rationalization around here is, “Yes, but you can still GET VALUE from someone even though…”

              However, you could have learned what you did from any manner of other sources or inspirations. You can’t really say that you wouldn’t have.

              Like the Wizard of Oz said, you always had it, you just had to recognize it.

              Proclaiming reverence for a person, merely over some passed along information, is like supplying a character testimonial. Those should never be given without looking at the totality of what someone represents.

          2. @Christoph ::

            You say that because you weren’t here when people were calling the wife of a murdered man a “whore” … or the like. But you were here this weekend for this …

            http://saltydroid.info/kill-yourself/#comment-78238

            And I quote …

            “Niggers and Jews should all be exterminated and killed.”

            … some already traumatized people want the right not to have to read shit like that … and I want the right not to delete it because it illustrates the caliber and mindset of my enemies … and so we have voting.

            I’d say don’t get in the habit of complaining about voting … it works for almost everything.

            1. @SD,

              Yes, I know that. I’m aware people say nasty shit online. I’m saying it’s easy to follow a conversation when you see what people wrote.

            2. @Christoph, I know about some $37 IM softwares that can tell you about how to click a link or push a button or even a href=”http://saltydroid.info/lethal-commission-impossible/#comment-71636″>more than one button, too.

          3. @Christoph,

            And Julian Assange is to Martin Luther King what Rhonda Byrne is to Carlon Haas.

            Do you mean that specific deaths can be traced to the information irresponsibly proliferated by Assange and Byrne, while it’s harder to assign blame to King and Official Glazer-Kennedy Insider Haas for the folks found swinging on ropes?

            1. @Christoph,

              When I click the Twitter button on Carlon Haas’ DontStepInThePoop.com, it shows me Twitter user @Carlon, who identifies himself as Carlon Haas, lists his location as Seoul, and uses the same photo as Facebook user Carlon Haas, aka King of Seoul, whose third-listed Activity and Interest – seemingly unironically – is Official Glazer-Kennedy Insider’s Circle.

              About GKIC:

              This is “The Place” for entrepreneurs seeking fast and dramatic growth, greater control, independence, and business security, come together. This is “The Place” for Prosperity, WithOUT the Bull!

              It’s “The Place” where truly smart, progressive, aggressive small business owners with a love for small business marketing, a sincere desire to get rich and richer (with no apologies for doing so), and an optimistic, forward-looking attitude ‘gather’ to exchange and share timely information and “what’s working today” strategies and examples.

              I’m a dumb, anachronistic, timid small business owner with a loathing of small business marketing, and I fake my desire to get rich (with lots of apologies) and pessimistically hide dated information from myself as I remain in my basement, away from others, so I don’t like GKIC.

              Also, I have been invited to GKIC events by people who are also addicted to MLMs and LGATs. Oh, and all this. Especially sentient potato Russell Brunson.

              Unless that’s an ironic link on his Facebook, Carlon Haas is part of the problem. He can try badmouthing JAR and Tony Robbins, but that’s just like hearing Naomi Dunford bash Mindie Kniss. Different spin, same scam, same victims.

              So you’re comparing a civil rights leader to someone who’s part of the scam system that routinely bankrupts elderly people and people with disabilities? The only comparison I can draw is that Carlon Haas can consider himself a couple steps removed from the suicides the IM/MMO/MLM/LGAT/LoA industry creates, just as MLK’s nonviolent protests were removed from but part of the same movement that led to the deaths of civil rights activists Medgar Evers, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner. (I guess it wasn’t so much ropes as shooting, chain-whipping and mutilating.)

              Assholery or non-assholery doesn’t make a difference in the fight that this blog is about. Mike Filsaime sounds like a nice enough guy in the audios, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t send people like Debbie (but not actually Debbie, ’cause that’s a PMI call) to Carlon Haas Presents Dan Kennedy Presents Russell Brunson‘s Idaho potato boiling room.

            2. @Lanna,

              When I click the Twitter button on Carlon Haas’ DontStepInThePoop.com, it shows me Twitter user @Carlon, who identifies himself as Carlon Haas, lists his location as Seoul, and uses the same photo as Facebook user Carlon Haas, aka King of Seoul, whose third-listed Activity and Interest – seemingly unironically – is Official Glazer-Kennedy Insider’s Circle.

              And I’ve got one of Dan Kennedy’s books — which, by the way, directly (and I mean directly) led me to finding the love of my life, and enjoying the best six years of my life. I literally owe more actual received happiness to that one Dan Kennedy book than I do to any piece of information I’ve ever received. Something I’ve never thought about before, but it’s absolutely true.

              Oh, and I made some more money with it too, writing better brochures, sales letters, and copy. It even helped me get jobs. I probably have one of the best job search marketing kits imaginable.

              So even if Dan Kennedy’s membership is a bit cultish, I cannot conclude that he doesn’t offer value. And if Carlon Haas is a customer of Kennedy’s, I don’t see the moral problem. Do you have any evidence that Carlon Haas has scammed, defrauded, or otherwise mistreated anybody?

            3. @Lanna,

              The only comparison I can draw is that Carlon Haas can consider himself a couple steps removed from the suicides the IM/MMO/MLM/LGAT/LoA industry creates

              That’s what his blog is about fighting against.

              Look, I understand the suicide from LGAT IM cult thing. To be frank, it (IM industry) was a significant part of what led to the downfall of my life, including losing the love of my life. I suspect this will end in suicide. It’s a spiral I can’t stop anymore.

              But Carlon Haas is a good influence (albeit I found his and Droid’s work too late to stop the damage), and, now that I really think about it, Daniel Kennedy’s work was the direct and proximate cause of the best thing in my entire life.

              For real. (It’s a long story.)

            4. @Kevin,

              You should reconsider whether you want to bestow credit to Dan Kennedy for what you perceive to be your “aha” moment.

              It was an extremely obvious cause and effect relationship. There was no ambiguity whatsoever.

            5. @Kevin,

              However, you could have learned what you did from any manner of other sources or inspirations. You can’t really say that you wouldn’t have.

              No. This is totally wrong. There is no conceivable way things could have happened that way without reading Dan Kennedy’s book. It was instrumental and it wasn’t incidental.

              Regardless of whether Dan Kennedy is worse than Hitler and The Ultimate Sales Letter is morally equivalent to Mein Kampf, that’s where it all started; and in an undeniable blatant connect-the-dots fashion.

              I realize your intentions are good. However, you’re mistaken.

            6. @Christoph,

              “There is no conceivable way things could have happened that way without reading Dan Kennedy’s book.”

              Being unable to conceive of an alternative does not mean one or more did not exist.

              Tomorrow you will have a choice about which pair of shoes you put on, and regardless of what you choose, you will get to the same destination.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

            7. @Kevin

              Oh for God sakes man, it’s not the fucking Halo Effect. It’s just how things happened in that case.

              YOU are the one saying I should ignore reality by saying things didn’t happen a certain way because of a retrospective negative moral judgment you feel I ought to assign to someone.

              You have virtually zero data to go on here and I have beaucoup. It really isn’t an important point, and I’m going to drop it now because this is stupid — which is to say, you’re being stupid.

            8. @Kevin

              Alright, I have to add this.

              You are falsely attributing the scenario you described to “altruism.” What about profiteering?

              It has nothing to do with fucking altruism. It was a for-profit book obviously.

              You’re seeing things that aren’t there, not seeing things that are there (but that I know about), and you’re talking out of your ass.

              Do you think there’s maybe a possibility, however slight, that I might know better what happened in my life than you do?

            9. @Christoph,

              You are on an anti-shyster blog, singing the praises of the Willy Wonka of Bullshit.

              If you can’t grasp how out-of-place that is, then perhaps introspection is not your strong suit.

            10. @Kevin,

              OK, I’ll take responsibility for starting this shit, and now I’m gonna ask you to end it here. Let’s leave off @Christoph for now. He’s bared his soul and told us about the high point and the low point of his life. If we respond by trying to deconstruct every mental defense, we’re no better than the LGATs.

              @Christoph,

              I’m now sorry my earlier post was so aggro. Your other posts gave me the impression you were a legal eagle up for a no-holds-barred debate. I had no idea you’re a recovering IMer or that Dan Kennedy would be a hot-button issue.

              Thank you for sharing the rough outline of your story. I hope you’ll stick around and fill in some details eventually. I also hope you’ll consider “seeking help” again. I hear art therapy’s good.

            11. @Lanna,

              Dan Kennedy would be a hot-button issue.

              Dan Kennedy is not a hot button issue for me. It is just factually correct that things happened the way I said they did. Dan Kennedy would seem to be a hot button issue for Kevin.

              You needn’t walk gently around me, but thanks for your humanity and, if I may say so, your realism. Kevin had a wee bit of a blind spot: actually saying I should go back and change the history of my life because the author of an influential book I read may not, in fact, be an altruistic guru — something I never thought he was. I rather thought he was a businessman trying to sell shit. But I digress.

              I find the ideas themselves interesting, which is why I discuss them. I’m open to negative info about Dan Kennedy, and I’m sure there’s some. I’m also open to the idea that, as part of the old guard, he may have led in part to what IM became today.

              Anyway, Carlon Haas I know as a guy who writes a blog about skepticism on the personal development industry, especially, and sometimes IM too. Not sure what to make of him being a Kennedy customer, but I’m not weirded out about it automatically either, since I know that Kennedy’s stuff can be helpful in small business and other marketing.

              I mean, if most of what he sells is bullshit, and he’s sold a lot of it, then he would have to be a good marketer, by definition, which doesn’t make him a good human being by default.

              It was an exercise in that book that made the personal difference I spoke of, not his great spiritual insights.

              Good talking with you. You’ll find I’m far from a closed minded person. Well, if there’s time.

              lol

              P.S. No art therapy.

            12. @Lanna,

              If there was a hot button issue for me, it was Carlon Haas. While I had realized it before — and undoubtedly that realization is what led me to Haas’s blog via a search — it was Haas who got me to see how much I’d still discounted just how saturated the niches the gurus taught about are, and therefore how hard bordering on impossible it is to make money online now. I knew this on one level. I’m pretty bright. But I still let myself believe for too long.

              And I don’t think it was “LGAT” type persuasion — I’m pretty skeptical. I think it was my then-optimism combined with a bit of them egging me on (while largely being skeptical), and also my then hatred of my job (which, yes, I know they play on).

              I communicated a bit with Haas, and he comes across as a reasonable, caring guy in his posts. It was through his blog I found Salty Droid.

              So if he’s a corrupt person leading people to misery and suicide, it’s news to me. His blog seems to be about preventing people from “stepping in the poop”.

              I’m tired. Going to bed. Have a good one.

            13. @Christoph, you wrote: “I suspect this will end in suicide. It’s a spiral I can’t stop anymore.”

              I was in a very bad place myself for several years after the legal system knocked out of my hands the basket into which I’d put all my eggs. We’re talking a lot of alcohol consumption, which led to experimentation (if you can call it that) with a dangerously addictive drug. I’m lucky I escaped with my free will intact.

              If I had it to do over again, I don’t think I’d be a lawyer. I think I’d be a baker. Maybe if you could get an entry level job in some honest work like that you could get your life back on track. Heck, I may still become a baker.

            14. @John Kindley,

              “I’m lucky I escaped with my free will intact.”

              I believe humans do not have free will — not contra-causal a.k.a. “libertarian” free will anyways.

              “If I had it to do over again, I don’t think I’d be a lawyer. I think I’d be a baker. Maybe if you could get an entry level job in some honest work like that you could get your life back on track. Heck, I may still become a baker.”

              Thanks for the personal story. Too bad about the case. On a much smaller level, I can relate. Many judges are stupid, even corrupt, and many people simply aren’t honest. 

              As for myself, I have toyed with getting a job many times, even said I would (speaking of honesty), and even started looking, but never followed through. I now realize I never will either. 

              The fact is, the thought of working with the intentional goal of expending efforts to gather resources to prolong my life — knowing I’m despised or at least thoroughly unwanted (for good reason) by the person I’ve loved most in my life — is such a distasteful thought I can’t bring myself to do it. 

              People have told me I have to work or how can I live? Quite.

            15. @Christoph, I agree it can be debated whether we have “free will” or not. On the other hand, determinism is not incompatible with the existence of God (see, e.g., Spinoza and Einstein). No one is Good but God alone. God is more us than we are ourselves. All of us may say, as Jesus did, “Before Abraham was, I am.” I have my doubts about personal immortality as commonly conceived, but in God nothing that is True, Good and Beautiful is ever lost. May I recommend to you The Gospel in Brief by Leo Tolstoy, which I link to from the main page of my blog. Ludwig Wittgenstein credited it with keeping him alive.

            16. @Christoph, As long as you can recall a single day or a moment that was as good or better than the one before it, then there is hope. Inertia and rumination are best replaced with things that you find curious or engrossing, and it need not be a job. Putting yourself in a public place where you are surrounded by stimulus that does not demand your interaction (a mall, for example), is a light challenge to status quo.

            17. @John Kindley, Roger

              John: Thanks so much for your humanity. However, the die has been cast. I had over 2 years to think about this and think I have. That combined with never-ending grief (evidence shows most people get over grief: some don’t) has made me ineffective and life unbearable.

              Further, philosophically, I simply approve of suicide for a lot of reasons I can get into, but that would be off topic here. That I’ve reached this state in part because of my falling for IM hooplah is of some relevance to the site, but not, alas, my philosophy on everything.

              Finally, I’m not religious. I believe religion is natural and evolutionarily adaptive, but also delusional. However, Theism isn’t the main delusion humans have — that delusion is optimism. And that’s the delusion scammers prey on.

              As long as you can recall a single day or a moment that was as good or better than the one before it, then there is hope.

              Roger: My best days are in the past. I am certain of it. That is probably the worst part of it too, even though they were fantastic. George Eastman of Kodak fame wrote a note that said, “My work is done. Why wait?” Made sense to me.

              Inertia and rumination are best replaced with things that you find curious or engrossing, and it need not be a job. Putting yourself in a public place where you are surrounded by stimulus that does not demand your interaction (a mall, for example), is a light challenge to status quo.

              Every single word of yours is totally and completely wise. Beyond wise, it is practical. This is exactly what I would need to do if I wished to persist and one day thrive.

              But you see, I don’t.

              Gentlemen: We could go back and forth with this. Everything you’re saying or could say would make sense within a certain context. But it is not my context.

              As I said above, there are some things I simply can’t live with. I find this is one and that’s the way it is.

              You’ll still see me commenting here and elsewhere for a while, most likely. I do this to occupy me: ideas interest me. I must tarry because I have certain duties to attend in regards to a comittment I’ve undertaken. I will then also have to wait to do certain other things even though patience is in short supply, but it’s pragmatically necessary.

            18. @Lanna,

              Carlon Haas said his Twitter account was hacked, and he tweeted about that back in October here.

              My twitter was hacked…I ain’t made jack squat working from home!

              That — combined with his body of work going after internet marketing scammers, personal development snake-oil salesmen, and various well-meaning but decidedly deluded hoopla peddlers; make your attack on his integrity based on his Twitter account yet discounting the totality of his life and his anti-scam, pro-skepticism website; and all for allegedly being a customer of Kennedy’s — unintentionally but severely off base.

              I believe you owe him a retraction and an apology, or alternatively you should provide additional information proving your allegations against his character, specifically that he’s responsible in some way for scuzzy internet marketing’s harm to people.

              I realize your intentions were good, and you seem like a nice person. However I think you made a bad error, which you will want to correct.

              1. @Christoph ::

                People don’t love being mentioned here :: and I’m careful who I mention … so let’s just drop it unless Carlon wants to participate himself.

                Kennedy is garbage … and I could care less what you think he’s done for you. It’s about what he’s doing on the whole. On the whole he’s hurting people … vouching for him here within incomplete knowledge was bound to get a reaction. Let it go.

            19. @Lanna,

              I find it strange my name is being mentioned like this on Salty’s blog. I haven’t participated here in quite some time. And I happen to be one of the few people that actually uses his name to comment. I have no reason to hide. And I always stand by what I say…just ask the Tony Robbins’ fans that are always hating on my blog.

              That being said, I thought I’d set something straight:

              #1 I don’t consider myself anywhere near a civil rights leader. MLK’s legacy is safe. I’m just a guy who likes to poke fun at scammers and give people the tools to know when they are being scammed. For those with enough time, you can read my reasons for starting my blog:

              http://dontstepinthepoop.com/response-to-michel-fortin

              #2 I did indeed click on the “fan page” of GKIC years ago after reading one of his marketing books that I (oh, the horror) liked and getting something in the mail promising me some freebie for becoming a fan of the page…now this was before I realized the scamminess of all that stuff and before I started writing Don’t Step in the Poop. Please note: I am not using the word “like” on purpose because this was before we “liked” pages. So, yes, I was a customer of GKIC.

              And so I will admit that indeed I am responsible for all the things an unethical IMer/MLMer or other acronymed person has ever done to harm another human being (or animal). Despite the totality of my writing criticizing scammy tactics and exposing the tricks used to propagate them, “becoming a “fan” of GKIC years ago does indeed make me culpable for the financial ruin or deaths of anyone scammed. I feel horrible.

              I also went to Wal Mart yesterday just in case you need to find someone responsible for low paying jobs in this country–that would be me.

              And while I was at Wal Mart supporting low paying jobs, I didn’t buy organic food….so there I am destroying the environment and harming the health of all mankind. Not to mention that I bought a soda thereby becoming responsible for the obesity problem in America. All the while I was wearing a Darth Vader T-shirt, thus condoning the actions of the evil Galactic Empire and thereby becoming responsible for the deaths of all the people on Alderaan.

              I also bought a Tony Robbins book once. Heck I admitted RIGHT ON MY BLOG that I bought it!!!! I don’t know why Tony’s fans are so mad at me since I obviously support Tony’s message

              http://dontstepinthepoop.com/review-tony-robbins-awaken-giant-within

              All kidding aside:
              I just now unliked the GKIC page. I am not that active on FB, and had a bit of trouble figuring out how to even find where it showed GKIC being my interest. I didn’t even know I was still a “fan” of the page. But I’m glad you pointed it out to me. I probably never would have noticed it.

              I do have a robust life outside of Facebook/Twitter/ or whatever.

              @SD

              I appreciate you dropping the conversation until I had a chance to participate (or not).

              @Christoph

              I’m glad you got something good from my blog. That’s why I started writing it.

            20. @Carlon,

              I’m glad you’ve set the record straight and have a good sense of humor about the whole thing. I’m also glad you unliked the GKIC page.

              Do you own CarlonHaas.com? If so, can you please remove the malware that Google and Firefox tell me it has so I can read about other stuff you do?

              —–
              Typed on my conspicuously consumed MacBook, the production of which destroyed the water supply for several African villages and contributed to the deaths of Foxconn employees.

          4. @SD,

            It’s impossible to put the blame for all the IM slime on to one person :: but if you forced me to pick just one person … I’d choose Dan Kennedy.

            Well, then he did one good thing in his life.

            1. @Christoph, You are falsely attributing the scenario you described to “altruism.” What about profiteering? About upselling? About giving you just enough so that you continually come back to him like a puppy hungry to pay for more, even if it maxed out your credit cards? That is the reality.

              He didn’t do “one good thing.” He sold a book to a publisher for money. It wasn’t written for you personally or as a public service.

              It was a fish hook. You are romanticizing and fixating on that fine summer day, the beautiful weather, and the tasty worm…but you’re forgetting the cold metal barb that stuck in your cheek as he caught you and hauled you into his boat.

        2. @SD, I really could care less that my comment is hidden. That a comment that was critical of something controversial got so many down votes just suggested to me, as a new visitor, that the commentariat here is pretty uniform in its beliefs and in its loyalty to the host. The “ignorance” appellation was not gratuitous. The post implied that all that was at stake in the Cox case was whether she was a “journalist.” Another comment I left in this thread a few minutes ago, and the briefs filed by Eugene Volokh in the case and posted on his blog, show otherwise. As for my mentioning MLK Jr. and Assange in the same sentence: MLK Jr. was the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. So was Barack Obama. Assange deserves the Nobel Peace Prize far more than Obama, for reasons that should be obvious, whether or not you agree with them. But then, for all I know, I might have stumbled on a blog full of imperialists.

          1. @John Kindley,

            “is pretty uniform in its beliefs and in its loyalty to the host”

            LMAO

            Yeah.

            There’s a lot of that going around.

          2. @John Kindley ::

            Whatevs … I don’t care about any of that cat crap. Left :: right :: blah blah … this blog is about Internet crime victim advocacy … dash of free speech. Don’t start with me about anything else.

            How does this post imply that “all that was at stake in the Cox case was whether she was a journalist?”

            I’m pretty sure my point is that it’s all about perception in the information age … and that this case is a total fucking perception fail.

            I’m not a law blogger … I’m awesome. If you wanna parse the words of this or that decision you’ve come to the wrong place. Don’t care.

            1. @SD, Hmm . . . a criminal defense lawyer has found himself on a blog focused on crime victim advocacy. But I’m not actually a big fan of crime. I started my legal career out with a fairly notorious case (at least at the time: the case went down in flames, although the injustice it sought to remedy remains unchecked) trying to stop fraud and false advertising on a massive scale.

              Sounds like this blog also has a dash of Julian Assange. Guess I’ll learn the ropes soon enough if I stick around and it turns out it’s my thing.

              1. @John Kindley ::

                Well sir :: you might want to start here …

                http://saltydroid.info/saltydroid-vs-wikileaks/

                … a post I was mostly compelled to write because I didn’t want to be compared to that no-standards no-respect fucking pig … and cause people kept asking me to say something. You’ll notice that it’s dated 2010 … which should tell you approximately how much I want to talk about it.

                If praise is to be heaped in that situation :: then 100% of it goes to Pfc. Bradley Manning … who is the only one who actually did something.

                Quoting David Carr in an amazing interview on The Verge this weekend …

                “And WikiLeaks has been tangled up in Julian’s legal battles, but really, what has popped out since? What there’s a shortage of is people like Bradley Manning: people who are willing to risk their freedom to dump closely held documents. There’s never been a shortage of whistles; there’s always been a shortage of people willing to blow them. WikiLeaks was a new kind of whistle, but I think looking back the historic figure to emerge from all that will be the guy sitting deep inside a federal prison: Bradley Manning.”

                slow claps!

            2. @SD, I read it. I see where you’re coming from. I admit that much of my information about Assange and Wikileaks has come from Glenn Greenwald, and it’s been a while. I’m not a big fan of War. I think Murder is Murder, whether or not a bunch of politicians give you permission to commit it. Glad we seem to see eye to eye on Bradley Manning. Some people hate that poor but heroic guy as much as if not more than Assange.

            3. @John Kindley,

              “Some people hate that poor but heroic guy…”

              You cannot say with certainty that he was “heroic.” He may have had mental health issues, or other motivations at the time. In that case, what happened was byproduct and not heroism.

              Furthermore, what qualifies as heroism? Simply risking your life and future based on your own values, without considering how others might be affected? DUI offenders do that all the time, as do burglars. What if in the act of stealing your television, a burglar grabs your business records and then turns you in for tax evasion? Are they now a hero with a new television?

              While Manning’s “heroism” is no certainty, what IS certain is that Assange tossed him under the bus. Maybe the Nobel committee will award Assange the prize for just helping to “expose” Manning? After all, even if he doesn’t deserve it, Assange can still put it on his mantel and show it off to all those “hot Swedish chicks” who “voluntarily” care to see it.

          3. @John Kindley,

            “MLK Jr. was the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize [well deserved]. So was Barack Obama [for what?]. Assange deserves the Nobel Peace Prize far more than Obama [Assange deserves to rot in prison or worse for outing informants cooperating with NATO in Afghanistan, en masse no less]”

          4. @John Kindley,

            “Assange deserves the Nobel Peace Prize”

            Wow.

            Should the votes as to whether or not Assange gets the prize include an automatic “NO” from slain family members of those whose names appeared on his terrorist-disseminated “KILL ME” lists? Or are they disqualified because they are too dead to vote?

            What would you call an armed bank robber who stopped his getaway car for a minute to help an old woman cross the road? “Great humanitarian?”

      2. @Christoph,

        If you can get together enough IP addresses and aim all of them at the site, you can always get the comment un-buried .

        Trust me, most of the comments that get burried really do deserve it. @John Kindley’s was probably an exception to that. He expressed disagreement, but he didn’t screech, try to sell an IM-MMO product, or do any other d-bag-type things.

        If the site had an appeal process for un-burrying comments, he’d probably be able to get his comment back up to 0.


        Furry cows moo and decompress.

        1. @Christoph,

          OTOH, @SD does have a good point about the MLK thing.

          Actually that comparison is why I subjected @John Kindley to my whole I’m-just-a-bill style explanation of what doesn’t count as protected speech.

          That he would try to make such a comparison seemed to indicate to me that he was not generally well educated. But I was probably wrong to make that assumption.


          Furry cows moo and decompress.

          1. @Wyrd,

            That he would try to make such a comparison seemed to indicate to me that he was not generally well educated.

            I think it indicates to me that he’s either a far-leftist, uneducated, or an anarchist — in this case, the latter one.

            Now I don’t truck with them because I simply believe humans evolved with authority, government, kings, tribal elders, or whatever, and if you take them away, we’ll just form then anyway. So I think Murray Rothbard was kind of silly. But I don’t think he’s uneducated, per se.\

            I disagree with some of his conclusions, yet I saw one instance where he could have joined the herd and ignored principles, and instead he was the only person other than I who understood the principle and spoke out it.

            So, no, I don’t agree with his economics, politics, or feelings about Assange — but lots who I do agree with wouldn’t have gotten that right. Gotta take the bad with the good sometimes.

  4. When they came for the lunatic psycho extortionists, I did nothing, because I was not a lunatic psycho extortionist. Plus, I mean, come on.

    When they came for me, the EFF was too busy defending lunatic psycho extortionists to do anything useful.

    1. @Unicorn Army ::

      Ha! That’s a much shorter way to say what I just said … could have saved myself a couple of ten hours.

      My commenters are smart … suck it Gawker!

  5. I wish all the folks defending Cox, especially and particularly the EFF, would take ten minutes to read what she’s written.

    It’s damn embarrassing that the EFF is attempting to defend someone that can’t even put together a f*cking sentence much less a coherent paragraph. I mean does she just she only write while being intensely drunk or what? Not even a pass with the spell check? Really?

    I always thought the EFF were pretty cool. Now they’ve finally gotten to the point where they’re looking pretty stupid.

    [I want to insert an image here for no particular reason, but I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. I’m going to try an iframe, but I’m not sure how well that’s going to work.]
    E.F.F. Illuminati card

    I always think of the E.F.F. and the Hacker Crackdown [gutenberg.org] and how they’re connected [sjgames.com] with Steve Jackson Games [eff.org]. All noble and stuff. Oh well.


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    1. @Wyrd ::

      Only Flickr embeds at the moment … it autoembeds when you paste in the normal link.

      Free Speech The Gathering

        1. @Wyrd,

          Yay! I can die happy now.

          @SD, if you wish to delete some of these comment/tests by me, please feel free. I hate going far OT, but like I say–I was briefly possessed with getting it right so I can do it whenever it seems appropriate in the future.


          Furry cows moo and decompress.

  6. I’d hate to see what an illegitimate online whatever the fuck it is that she claims to be will do for some ducats. I’m with Salty on this, extorsion does not equal free speech.

      1. @CrystalsTumblingCox, @SD,

        So… it’s sort of looking as if Crystal has taken over the website that was previously Stephanie’s? …. {confused}


        Furry cows moo and decompress.

        1. @Wyrd,

          The jury is out on that question, though on balance we would definitely agree that Stephanie’s blog rising from the ashes is highly coincidental, though we need to give her the benefit of her insanity.

          If you are not confused you haven’t been paying attention.

          @SD,
          Breaking news about the etymology of the word may, and what Randazza is doing out with lesbians can now be found at that dubious den of http://crystal-cox.tumblr.com :)

  7. After viewing the disconnected video on cancer this freak made to validate, draw attention, and traffic to her bullshit cancer site with the intent to financially exploit profoundly ill, frightened and desperate people, all I can say is her efforts at extortion are shameful, aggressive, and inexcusable. This woman is a nut case – a stone cold borderline and a sociopath. In my non-professional opinion, of course, just in case you’d like to take me on, too, Crystal Cocksucker. It doesn’t take a professional to see that she’s crazy, and being her kind of crazy doesn’t place her above the law. To those who would defend her, take the time to go through a few posts here and click on a few links. This bottom-feeding, knuckle-dragging neanderthal deserves to be behind bars.

      1. Excuse me ladies for using the word cunt, but this woman deserves to be called a crazy cunt for so many reasons. I mean no disrespect to the women here , but anyone who attacks an innocent 3-year-old child needs to be dealt with once and for all. What is this world coming to?

  8. I tried to answer the question “Why was Crystal Cox so obsessed with Obsidian?” And it took a huge long giant post and a shitload of investigation to kinda sorta get an answer.

    1. @Jordan, @SD,

      Yes, that is awesome. And also a lot sad. It seems only to underscore why this case is such an apocalyptically bad case to try and set precedent on.

      Does this sort of thing happen often? I’m starting to think maybe it does.

      But how will they talk about it to the school kids talk years hence…

      “Well ya see, Timmy, you can’t write your opinion of someone else on the Internet because of the Cox case.”

      or

      “Well ya see, Timmy, it’s perfectly acceptable for someone on the Internet to post many, many negative things about you and game the search engines and then offer to remove all those messages for a fee because of the Cox case.”

      I’m having trouble seeing where there’s a win here either way. Is there a way for a judge to enter a verdict that explicitly requests that, that verdict not be used as a basis for new precedent?

      If this thing is going to trial: @SD and @Jordan and any other like-minded have-passed-the-bar individuals: PLEASE file some friend of the court briefs explaining why it’s a Bad Idea(tm) to use this case for precedent setting.

      Thanks,


      Furry cows moo and decompress.

  9. When would NOW be a good time for the Oregon Attorney General to criminally prosecute extortionist Crystal Cox? It doesn’t lack evidence!

    1. @Justice ::

      It should probably be the feds actually.

      But it could be Oregon … or Montana. And I’d be guessing she might have fallen short of ideal standards in a couple of other areas beyond her crystalcox.blogspot.bullshit plots.

      Someone told me that extortion wasn’t a crime in Montana … which is obviously wrong. But then I looked and couldn’t find it.

      Montana’s weird … I think I’ll move there and start a cult.

  10. I’m not a lawyer, nor do I play one on television, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I do occasionaly read Volokh. I’m disappointed that he took this case.

    I’m wondering, Salty, if you have had any offline discussions with him regarding Crystal Cox.

    1. @Mad Max ::

      I didn’t know anything was happening in the case until this weekend when I heard about the toddler cyberstalking thing.

      Last I remember I was trying to get her to bugger off for the sake of free speech … but I guess nobody liked that plan.

  11. Let me get this straight. Judge Hernandez’s opinion was:
    – not precedent-setting because he presides over district (trial) court
    – actually part of the pre-trial rulings, not the actual trial
    – “confined . . . to the record defendant created in this case”
    – not based on Cox’s Web platform or self-employment
    – wouldn’t apply in this case if Cox blamed her source for the defamatory information
    – “likely irrelevant to the outcome of her case” because “the source of her statements were not really at issue.”

    Now the EFF wants to take it to appeals court, where Oregon appellate court precedent could be set that:
    – it’s OK to publicly, baselessly accuse private people of criminal activity
    – bloggers aren’t covered by shield laws

    Is that right?

    1. @Lanna ::

      Pretty much :: except it’s federal court instead of Oregon … making it much worse.

      – it’s OK to publicly, baselessly accuse private people of criminal activity

      Which is the message being sent by taking her case … regardless of the outcome.

      1. @SD,

        Oh, heh, it does say “IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT” at the top of those PDFs. Why was it in federal court instead of state court?

        Wikipedia told me Montana has a criminal defamation law, but then Montana told me they repealed it.

  12. Ok, so 5 minutes later and I still have absolutely no idea what this story is about. Sometimes the prose stylings get a bit out there and its tough to follow. This is one of them times.

    1. @Cromulent ::

      Sounds like a personal problem.

      Maybe go spend a month reading James Joyce :: then come back here and you’ll be like … “gosh this fake robot is so straight forward.”

      Then you can leave a comment like ::

      “Droid, thank you for not stuffing this post with obtuse allusions to Sophocles. At first it seems cool but it starts to get really annoying.”

      You’re welcome guy … you’re welcome.

      1. @SD,

        riverrun

        That’s as far as I ever got into that book.

        I started to gibber when I found there was more than one version. There was the original and then there was a later release that corrected James’ non-sense writing (but presumably there’s a hidden meaning in there somewhere) to the correct non-sense. That is–the poor typesetters made many “errors” in the original which James got corrected in a later version.

        Cthulhu and his ilk don’t scare me half so much as James freakin’ Joyce.

        Happily my major was in computer science not literature so I can ignore the thing.

        Yet there is also a part of me that wants to try it just to see if I can survive it. Kind of like watching MST3K or drinking pickle juice.

        ———
        Droid, thank you for writing using modern American English and mostly complete sentences and not really even all that many colons these days.

        The parent comment actually has some truth–@SD sometimes your posts actually are a bit challenging to follow. But most of them are straightforward.

        I had no problems parsing your post on this occasion.

        Also–it was really funny. Most of them are. I’m always wanting to tell you that, but since the posts are also always about something serious with people getting hurt, it’s hard to find a way to put that in there.


        Furry cows moo and decompress.

  13. I don’t know Volokh personally but I respect his work. I suspect that Randazza’s take on this via his last post on Popehat – copied below – may be the reason. Again I don’t REALLY know but it seems a plausible explaination.

    Marc Randazza:

    “You’re talking about the motion for a new trial. I think that was a damn good maneuver, because the original order did have some edges on it that needed to be sanded down. Filing a motion for a new trial was a way to do that (a motion for clarification of the order could have too, but I don’t think would have been superior). That meant the damage could be un-done, without the risk of greater damage. It was a brilliant move.

    I don’t think that the scenario I put forth is all that implausible. I’ve worked on appeals in that very scenario myself — knowing it was a suicide mission, and knowing that my job was to just limit the damage.

    I sure didn’t write my briefs from that perspective — I wrote them to win. While I did not win, I at least managed to limit the damage. If I were in EV’s shoes, and Cox said “I’m appealing with or without you,” I would stick around and try and make sure she didn’t cause any further damage by trying to appeal on her own.

    EV thinks three dimensionally. It would not surprise me in the least if he considered his role to be to act in that capacity.

    And, of course, completely contrary to your mischaracterization of my “implication” of EV’s motivation — such a mission requires a serious willingness to sacrifice one’s ego for something bigger. Your name is on the loss forever, with very few people ever knowing why you did it.”

    1. @Joe ::

      Yeah :: that’s good lawyer talk … from a good lawyer. But most of the world’s peoples do not live in a lawyer vacuum.

      Which is why I’m quite positive that Prof. Volokh doesn’t mind that I need to do what I need to do to counter the perception that extortion … a massive multi-million/billion dollar problem on the web that’s reeking havoc for small business and individuals right around the globe … is in any way acceptable. It’s not just fancy lawyers and media blow jobs that await your arrival to this totally fake unicorn biz.

      Part II

      … and … and … resources are finite. I can name :: off the top of my head … 25 people who needed and deserved help and didn’t get any.

      Something is wrong with that … it’s not just the government that’s fucking up.

      1. @SD, Agreed. It’s a real shame people like Cox are allowed to ruin someones reputation without any facts. While I respect Volokh I don’t agree with the defense of Ms. Cox’s case.

      2. @SD,

        “… and … and … resources are finite. I can name :: off the top of my head … 25 people who needed and deserved help and didn’t get any.

        “Something is wrong with that … it’s not just the government that’s fucking up.”

        Well put, Droid. That’s what I’ve been trying to say for a while over this.

  14. Wow for someone to go after a 3 year old child is an all time low…this woman needs to be locked up in a psychiatric hospital, something is really wrong with her

      1. @SD,

        I don’t think Ms Cox is a sociopath; they tend to have lower levels of adrenaline and other “arousal” hormones (that’s “arousal” as in “fight or flight”, I hasten to add). This is what enables them to be such consummate liars and manipulators – they don’t show fear and anxiety because they’re adrenal glands aren’t in overdrive.

        I think the furious venom employed by Ms Cox smacks of a different personality disorder –“Borderline Personality Disorder”. That would explain the unpredictable ire, directed at anyone who she perceives may have slighted her, the ever-shifting series of targets and her completely deranged concept of who she considers “fair game”.

        “Borderline” often causes some confusion – people can think it refers to someone with a relatively mild disorder; nothing could be farther from the truth. Instead, it’s something far more serious.

        From the DSM IV:
        A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image and affects, as well as marked impulsivity, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

        1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5

        2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

        3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

        4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, excessive spending, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5

        5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.

        6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

        7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

        8.Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

        9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms
        It is a requirement of DSM-IV that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria.

        Do any of these sound like anyone we might know of?

  15. Borderline for sure, and I think sociopath because of the criminal activity, lack of remorse, manipulation…

    Either personality disorder is difficult to treat, and let’s face it, she doesn’t appear to be someone who is interested in changing her behavior to move in a positive direction. The chances of her being treated are less than zero. Again, in my non-professional opinion, Mizz-not-a-journalist.

    Cages for sociopaths! (I owe a thank you to Jacqui for that one.)

    1. @I wantz 2B rich,

      Nah, I think she’s too committed to action to be a borderline (which is a terrible name and confuses people: was originally the borderline between “psychotic” and “neurotic”, although was later acknowledged that “borderlines” aren’t psychotic. A much better name would have been, and it’s been proposed, “unstable personality disorder”.

      I think she’s closer to the narcissistic/sociopath range, with some unstability and so on.

      1. @Lanna,
        All kiddin’ aside, there’s one thing we can all agree on: she’s stone cold crazy, and justice would be served if she shared a
        cage with Nipple-Pierce. She’d make him her bitch.

    2. It’s lookin’ to me like anything that ends in “-path” has tripped someone’s trigger. I can’t imagine why. Sociopath. Psychopath. On the wrong path. None requires a great modicum of imagination. Surely one of these attributes fits.

      1. @I wantz 2B rich,

        Indeed. We’re debating the finer points of why someone is an arsehole, when the main point is that they’re an arsehole extortionist. While I think Ms Cox may have a paranoid personality disorder, it clearly doesn’t matter if I’m right or not. Whatever she is, she’s done wrong and needs to be stopped before she a) blitzes the reputation of another innocent, b) extorts more money and c) sets a really bad legal precedent.

        1. @it could happen to anyone, My armchair diagnosis wasn’t intended to raise a debate. I’ve said it before: she’s stone cold crazy and deserves to be behind bars. Her efforts at extortion are abhorrent. She makes videos about cancer when her head is so far up her a** that she could watch a video from her tonsils.

          Her warped attempt to capitalize on people with profoundly serious medical conditions is unconscionable. It’s glaringly obvious that she is evil and has a twisted mind.

          That she is wasting the resources of the courts and the EFF is a travesty, and that her case may somehow impact the rest of us is beyond unfortunate. Nonetheless, I find it humorous that someone is voting down sociopath/psychopath stuff. I choose to believe that those posts ruffled her (or a supporter’s) feathers, and if that’s so, I’m happy to be an agitator.

  16. What first drew me to the Droid’s website was discussions of the murderous James Ray. I stayed for the information on the porcine Naomi Dunford, the psuedoscience of Peter “build me a tricorder” Diamandis and a crash course on just how evil Utah’s Attorney General actually is. (hint: extremely evil)

    So I didn’t really expect to be surprised by what I read here. And then I read about Crystal Cox. This blew my mind. This woman is engaging in flat out extortion and some of the ugliest online behavior in the history of the internet. Why would anyone defend this: ( I took the attorney’s name out because I didn’t want to aid Cox in her slanderous activities.)

    “I will Be buying M…R…….Lies.com –
    M…R…….RapedandMurderedAyoungGirlin1990.com (thats ok with you RIGHT Fuckhead ) .. oh and that reminds me of another one
    FuckheadM…R……..com – HypocriteM…R……..com – M…R……ISaGreasyMotha.com – M…R……SickFuck.com –
    M…R…….BetraysClients.com – I am Giddy with Ideas, may have to GO without FOOD, but that’s ok, as long as I can buy M… R……Domain Names, I mean domain names with M… R…….’s Name in it. Though, whiny baby M… R……. says I have no right to buy a Domain
    Name with M… R…….’s name in it, SEE that was just a Big BULLY Attorney Bluff!”

    And then she proceede to attack his wife and three year old child with this same type of filth. Why, why on God’s green earth would the EFF defend this foul excuse for a human being?

    Crystal Cox stands out in this rogue’s gallery the Droid has written about as one of the lowest life forms I’ve ever encountered. She turns my stomach, this story made me physically ill. She IS as repulsive as Larry Flynt and I never thought I’d say that about any human being.

      1. @SD,

        Well, what it comes down to is Marc, the EFF, and Eugene Volokh have a different agenda than you do.

        Yours is fraud victim advocacy and theirs is free speech protection.

        I think both causes are important. However, I think your cause is way under-represented considering the amount of people that get scammed everyday and how I almost never hear anyone talk about it ever, ever, ever. Except for here.

        Seems like the rest of the world is still all caveat emptor. Most folks show the same kind of sympathy for a fraud victim as the police used to stereotypically show for rape victims. (I.e. “She had it comin’. Dressed like that.”)

        1st Amendment protection is very important. But so is fraud victim advocacy.

        Crystal Cox is a fucking nut job. But happily the EFF and Eugene Volokh aren’t. And neither are you. It’s probably pollyanna of me, but I believe there’s at least the possibility that your cause and their cause can be represented in whatever verdict comes out of this thing.

        So I’m still hoping that if/when there’s a 9th circuit case on this that fraud victim advocacy lawyers (especially and particularly you) can file some friend of the court briefs to the effect of “ok look–free speech is important. But it’s also important to send the message that what Crystal Cox did is wrong and that it should constitute extortion.”

        Furry cows moo and decompress.

        1. @Wyrd,

          Yours is fraud victim advocacy and theirs is free speech protection.

          I agree that this is largely so (Droid is into free speech too and I’m sure Volokh and EFF don’t actually want people to be coerced out of money) with a huge, huge, huge caveat. Taking this dog of a case to federal court, and to the unpredictable Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals no less, is just asking for a bad, but meaningful, precedent to be set as well as losing the all-important perception war, as Droid explains in this post.

          It isn’t just about precedent. It’s what people believe that will be important in the culture, and give judges their cues about what to emphasize when setting future precedents.

        2. @Wyrd,

          I can’t figure out what the EFF thinks they’re defending here.

          They’re not defending the rights of journalists, because journalists don’t just make up defamatory shit about private citizens.

          They’re not defending “free speech,” because, well, see the first thing there. You can’t just make up defamatory shit about private citizens and present it as fact.

          You can make up a hilarious story about Andy Jenkins marrying Kim Jong Il in a secret private ceremony, because it’s easily understood that the Droid doesn’t mean that’s literally true.

          Maybe there are some special specifics about this case. Maybe the case was wrongly decided in some specifically bad way. Bloggers who actually are journalists should be protected in the same way that other journalists are.

          But this nutjob? Wow. Just wow.

          1. @Unicorn Army,

            “They’re not defending the rights of journalists, because journalists don’t just make up defamatory shit about private citizens.”

            Come again?

            1. @Christoph,

              You’re not gonna go calling those network “news” weasels journalists now are you?

            2. @Christoph,

              You’re trying to use the exception to prove the rule.

              NBC have acknowledged they screwed up and are investigating how it happened. Nothing – not even a $2.5 million judgement – has made Cox examine her behavior.

              NBC was covering an incident that actually happened and already had public attention. They didn’t just pick a person who declined to do business with them and threaten to fabricate stories about him raping and murdering anyone. They didn’t create abusive content about a private individual’s spouse or child.

              NBC’s error may come down to negligence. They might’ve cut the audio to fit the time limit and didn’t think about the perception it created. Cox, on the other hand, has gone out of her way time and again to create more and more derogatory content about her victims.

            3. @Lanna, Just speaking to one thing here only, and that is NBC’s news “doctoring,” and I emphasize, “doctoring.” I worked in broadcasting for years, and what took place was no “screwup.”

              Here’s why.

              Right off the bat, to successfully edit source audio in any way demands multiple listens. Otherwise, you’d have insufficient clarity to even find edit points. The audio editor, and others, quickly become quite familiar with source content in its entirety.

              Now, in editing an audio actuality (sound bite), a “screwup” might be sloppily dropping the beginning or ending of something without considering context. That could happen if someone were rushed, short on time, incompetent, and it were a small market news outlet.

              This, however, was different. This was a significantly more deliberate, time consuming edit (closer to an assemblage), AND it was a national news network.

              They actually REMOVED the MIDDLE of an already brief snippet, and shored it up so that there would be no perceptible gap. That takes some effort.

              That was an aggressive, intentional edit. The editor knew exactly what they were doing.

              Furthermore, this is a major network, and not a local news outlet. Networks also have editors, fact checkers and multiple levels of review. Those people review the SOURCE material (raw footage and audio) and then they review the FINAL product. They specifically look for, research, and validate or red flag any deviation not fully supported by source materials.

              Frankly, this was one of the most appalling things I’ve seen in recent years on any broadcast network.

              NBC has “problems” much further up the ladder, and those “problems” are more related to propagandizing and intentional news distortion.

          2. @Llana,

            Acknowledged they “screwed up”? This was intentional defamation, in both their print and audio versions.

            Do you remember the Bush National Guard memos that forced Rather and Mary Maples to resign?

            The media making up / slanting facts is nothing new. You’re flat out wrong here.

          3. @Llana,

            “NBC’s error may come down to negligence. They might’ve cut the audio to fit the time limit and didn’t think about the perception it created.”

            This is such absolute horsecrap, I don’t know where to begin but to question your:

            – honesty
            – sanity
            – but really, massive left-wing bias is the answer

            1. @Christoph,

              I’m a copywriter, so you should always be questioning my honesty. Yeah, you can question my sanity, too. And I get all my news from The Guardian, so massive left-wing bias is a certainty.

              The convo here is supposed to be about Crystal Cox and how she’s not a journalist, though. The CBS Bush memo example of mainstream journalists making up defamatory shit about private citizens has the same problems as the NBC audio example.

              Like NBC, CBS launched an investigation and, as you say yourself, people were let go. Through their actions, CBS sent the message that this is unacceptable behavior and that it has consequences. In the form of a judgement, the court sent Crystal Cox the message that this is unacceptable behavior with $2.5 million consequences, and yet she keeps doing it.

              A presidential candidate is hardly a private citizen. While GZ’s actions thrust him suddenly into the public eye, Bush opened himself to greater and greater public scrutiny as he pursued higher and higher public offices. MR might be considered a public figure or limited public figure because of his work, but his daughter is certainly a private person.

              Chip says NBC’s audio editing was intentional and couldn’t have happened because of a rush to air it, and I’ll accept that unless the investigative committee says otherwise. However, in the CBS case the investigative panel identified “‘myopic zeal’ to be the first news organization to broadcast a groundbreaking story” that was “was rushed on the air only three days after 60 Minutes Wednesday had obtained some of the documents” as one of the reasons why the mistake was made. (“[A] zealous belief in the truth of the segment” was another reason, but not the only one.) CBS rushed and didn’t authenticate documents that were likely forged by retired Texas National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett. Crystal Cox just fabricates lies out of whole cloth.

              So, no, “journalists don’t just make up defamatory shit about private citizens.” Crystal Cox does.

            2. @Lanna, I think clearly the left-wingism you’re making up is just the facade for you within your role in internet marketing experts and copywriters Osama Bin Laden conspiracy.

              “Has anyone researched this story online regarding the Osama Bin Laden killed conspiracy theory?
              This story last week got Yahoo message board comments shut down, manipulated, and deleted. Posing as internet copywriters and experts, here are some FBI MOST WANTED terrorists, some for U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya & Indonesia.

              Mark Joyner Simpleology-Seif Al Adel (Sarah Palin’s book Palinology)
              John Ferrero-Ramadan Shallah
              Yaro Starak-Umar Patek
              Armand Morin-Noordin M Top (said to have been “killed” years ago in Indonesia)
              Michael Filsaime-Ali Sayyid Muhamed Mustafa al-Bakri (Die Hard 4 “Fire Sale” the cyber attack on our infrastructure)
              Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian-Ammar Mansour Bouslim
              Carl Galletti-Ahmed Garbaya, Samir Salwwan
              Ted Ciuba-Abdul Rahman Yasin
              Willie Crawford-Fazul Mohammed
              Shay Patil-Atiyah Abd al-Rahman

              The Osama bin Laden dead, killed, conspiracy story is a total hoax to distract you. These people posing as internet marketing experts and copywriters are behind all affiliate marketing education online, mystery shopping, paid surveys, and thousands of get-rich-quick websites. This massive organization also appears to have run the last election on Youtube. After breaking this code and reporting to the FBI, I’ve been relentlessly tortured now for over 3 years.

              Want proof that the Osama Bin Laden killed story last week isn’t only a conspiracy, it’s a hoax? Here is a code of LOOK A LIKES for media moguls, CEO’s, and the current administration. Search Google Images for;

              Jay Abraham-Ayman al-Zawahri (Osama’s right hand man)
              Jay Conrad Levinson-George Soros (collapsing of nations currencies)
              Rosalind Gardner-Jill Biden
              Internet Million Dollars Professor James Bradley-Bill Ayers (Pentagon bomber)
              Stephen Pierce-Van Jones
              Perry Marshall-Reverend Pfleger
              Brett McFall-Austan Goolsbee
              John Childers-Andy Stern
              Howard L Moreland-Michael Moore
              Yanik Silver-Sergei Brin (Ex Google CEO)
              John Carlton-Jeff Bridges (Liberalist “the dude”)
              Carleton Sheets-Jimmy Carter
              Oprah Winfrey’s galpal Gayle King-Whit_ney Hous_ton
              Stedman Gram-Eric Holder
              Youtube’s-Rich Jerk videos-American Airlines Stadium NBA Maverick Mark Cuban
              Youtube’s-Robert Johnson Rich Jerk-Tony Rezko
              The Rich Jerk’s first email to millions promoted Stompernet in Atlanta Georgia with 777 airline pilot Brad Fallon, and Eben Pagan pitching a seminar called Get Altitude. 3 Days after reporting my finding to the FBI, Delta in Atlanta cancelled a large number of flights for “safety reasons”

              Lorrie Morgan Ferrero’s Red-Hot-Copy.com website has others associated with the current administration such as; 72 Virgin Records Richard Branson, & White House Party Crashers the Salahi’s with Valerie Jarrett’s daughter Laura.

              Here’s more proof that the Osama Bin Laden killed story is a conspiracy;

              Sarah Palin never existed until months after I contacted the FBI. Her family & history is fabricated using logarithms. She became a media magnet to flush out Barack (O’Bomber) Obama’s socialist “organized community.” Maverick Sarah (Barrac)uda) Palin, is short for palindrome, such as SOROS. Maverick McCain’s likes ABBA, another palindrome. First forum to hack me online was FIB Scams 101 with the owner called Mama. Palin coined the term “mama” grizzly. Under investigation for insider trading of a search company called Mamma, was Interstate 77 American Airlines Stadium NBA Maverick Mark Cuban. On 9/11 flight 77 American Airlines hit the Pentagon. Palin’s daughter “Willow,” is short for Willow Run Airport off I-94, her birthday 7/7/94. “Piper,” also a plane, shares a birthday with Bruce Willis (John McC(l)ane the guy who fights the terrorists in Die Hard.) Sarah’s “siblings” are Heather Heath Bruce & Molly Heath McCa(n)n. “Trig” shares a birthday with 3 congressmen from WI, IL, and MI. “Track” shares a birthday with Adolf Hitler. Obama shares a birthday with Nobel Peace Prize winner Yasser Arafat. “Tripp” Palin has multiple birthdays, like Yasser.

              In my strongest opinion, Osama Bin Laden is a conspiracy, a spokesperson, and a look-a-like. Osama represents Obama/Biden (Bi)n La(den.)

              WHEN THIS STORY STARTED GETTING COPIED, MESSAGE BOARD COMMENTS GOT MANIPULATED, SHUT DOWN, ALTERED, AND DELETED. THIS CODE IS BEING SUPPRESSED SHARE THIS WITH EVERY MEDIA ORGANIZATION OUTSIDE THE U.S.”

            3. @Wyrd,
              Thanks for the thumbs up! Thumbs are the only commodity around here, so they’re very valuable.

              @Jack,
              Yesss, James Bradley-Bill Ayers, Perry Marshall-Reverend Pfleger, Robert Johnson Rich Jerk-Tony Rezko and I are hard at work making sure Chicago voters re-elect Obama/Biden (Bi)n La(den.) Hard. At. Work. (Moves sleep mask back over eyes.) Robert/Tony’s in charge of door-to-door canvassing.

    1. @Barbara,

      Cox threatened to buy

      M. R. RapedandMurderedAyoungGirlin1990.com

      ?

      Sheesh. That Crystal Cox is something else.

      I think Marc should recognize this fight free speech with more free speech isn’t always the best way to deal with sociopathic criminals — and let’s face it, Marc is in the top percentile of people on the planet able to fight a free speech battle. Most people are not so able.

      And why should they have to use their lives this way, in response to defamation and criminal extortion?

      Someone whose job it is investigate this woman and charge her, so she stops hurting people.

      1. @Random,

        The PDF document Crystal Cox wrote about Marc’s wife should warrant her arrest and incarceration. There is absolutely no excuse for Crystal Cox. None.

        Posting her vile filth about someone’s spouse and 3 year old child is clearly beyond the boundaries of a civilized society.

        If prison isn’t in her immediate future then something is wrong with the justice system.

        1. @Barbara,

          “The PDF document Crystal Cox wrote about Marc’s wife should warrant her arrest and incarceration.”

          I meant for her protection racket extortion. On what charge are you referring to? Defamation is not ordinarily criminal.

          Posting her vile filth about someone’s spouse and 3 year old child is clearly beyond the boundaries of a civilized society.

          Again — arrest her on what charge?

          If prison isn’t in her immediate future then something is wrong with the justice system.

          But I digress.

    1. Sorry for the second post – my link didn’t show up. Go to YouTube type in Crazy Crystal Cox. Funny video by someone with the tagline Captain Obvious.

    2. Geesh for some reason my link to a vidoe made about Cox is not showing up. Here it is again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yeeB5_bbD4

      And her response to that video – which I can make neither heads or tails of – more of her garbledyspeek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOx0zu13F-Y

      I say we should all do something like this. The more time she spends trying to reply to everyone and justify herself the less time she can pick on some other poor hapless victim.

  17. She has the right to remain silent. Unfortunately she lacks the fucking ability. She is doing no one any favors opening her trap – least of all herself.

  18. For a truly nauseating viewing experience watch the following:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIUSF0ciA18&feature=player_embedded#!

    See Crystal Cox chew grass and cry because “she loves you gals so much!” Listen to her proudly refer to herself as “the hillbilly broker”. Hear her beg for someone, anyone, to PLEASE read her blog! Watch and be mesmerized by her insanely crooked bottom teeth. It’s not to be missed.

    1. @Barbara, ugh! Total fake cry: “I love you gals” (cover face, fake sob) instant recovery and totally dry eyes. Pathetic

      1. @What the what,

        Absolutely a fake cry. So obvious too.

        Personally, I thought she’d make a real cry. Turns out, she’s more sociopathic than neurotic.

        But it’s close.

  19. From LegalInfo website:

    “Extortion can be considered a white-collar crime if performed non-violently through a business or professional setting. The definition of a white-collar crime is a violation of the law committed by a person or group of persons in the course of an otherwise respected and legitimate occupation or financial activity… Extortion is commonly seen in organized crime, when a business or person is required to pay for “protection.”

    “In the United States, extortion can also be committed as a federal crime across a computer system, phone, mail, message board, or any other instrument of “interstate commerce” and can be as simplistic as threatening someone to do something “or else.” In committing the crime of extortion, an individual must willingly and knowingly send a message. It does not have to be received by anyone, just sending it is committing a crime.”

    The penalties for extortion in Montana are as much as $10,000 fine, 5-10 years average jail sentence, and probation up to max 10-13 years.
    ***************************************************************************

    When the Hillbilly Broker demanded a monthly payment of $2,500 to “help” you undo the damage that she is doing to you…how is that NOT extortion?

  20. Weelll – since the Crystal Cox Crazy Blogger video on YouTube, she has now started putting the word “crazy” into all her YouTube titles in order to attempt to float to the top of the YouTube relevance engine. Same for all of her other blogs. She’s added it so it is now an index word for Google searches. Long story short the crazy person is now calling themselves crazy.

  21. Well, I have just outed myself on Popehat as being the author of the “Crazy Crystal Cox” YouTube video.

    In any event, Cox keeps getting stranger and stranger. In the lastest attempt to emulate my parody of her, she has been turning her MarcRandazza site into what she calls a “parody”. I supose I should be flattered but I’m not.

    She continues to expand her conspiracy theory to tie Randazza to certain going ons in the porn industry even going as far as to post links to other sites including one to Diana Grandmason. Diana Grandmason is a 52 year old former porn star that used to star in porn movies with her daugher (yep you heard that right – her daughter). Google Desi and Elli Foxx and you’ll see.

    So Diana’s site includes a post here http://foxxmediagroup.com/copyright-troll-lawyers-meet-porn-valley-and-hollywood-extorntionists-americas-justice-system-enables-them-to-stalk-bully-and-blackmail-you/

    which alludes to Randazza and a host of other attorneys who supposedly “Enable Sex Trafficking of YOUR Daughters!!” Uh isnt’ that what SHE was doing?

    It further contains this bizarre comment “BEWARE of letting your children anywhere near the following people. You have no idea who they really are and who else they may expose your children to. Your children could end up kidnapped and working as sex slaves in Porn Valley or Hollywood. We believe they may be kidnapping them young and keeping them hidden in locked places until they get old enough to pass for 18. Then they give them plastic surgery to alter their looks, obtain a fake ID and documentation (costs $250 in Porn Valley) and you have ready made pornstars who were groomed from childhood and have no idea what reality is or what their prior lives were. It’s happening everyday in Porn Valley, Hollywood and The New World Order and obviously, our justice system isn’t going to stop them because THEY ARE A PART OF THEM!!”

    This Grandmason kook is just ONE of the many fruitcakes that Cox chooses to associate with and use as “sources” for her smear campaign against Randazza and other legitimate attorneys and just another reason why NO ONE takes her seriously.

  22. SD – well for SD and all you “peeps” as SD calls us. Here is an interesting update.

    Well all, this is worth a look http://phillylawblog.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/very-few-things-leave-me-speechless-this-did/#comments

    My posts are those under annonymoosee

    Captain Obvious’s superpowers are tingling, opps sorry that was something else. It appears that Naughty Crystal Cox has just got caught with her panties down transferring her “assets” to someone else to avoid having her domain names confiscated as part of the recent lawsuit against her.

    How do we know – well it’s obvious. Here are the facts.

    On April 27, 2012, the domain name http://www.marcrandazza.com – the main site Cox has been using to dish Randazza (with Monica Foster’s help) was transferred to:

    Domain Registrant info
    Alex Melody Mayers
    1000 N. Green Valley Parkway suite 440
    Las Vegas, Nevada 89074
    United States
    +1.2133613579

    The above is public information via GoDaddy and other domain named server site search.

    However, the above goes back to:
    Alexandra Melody Mayers
    Female | 33 years old
    Birthday January 1979
    Current Address (xxxxx –redacted this for privacy reasons but can confirmed to the phone # below)
    Los Angeles, CA 90028
    Mobile # (213) 361-3579

    And now ladies and gents, it get’s REALLY interesting. Alexandra Melody Mayers is (gasp) Monica Foster. And, for proof I offer up the following VERY informative link. Caution if you are younger than 18 you are not allowed to look.

    http://encyclopediadramatica.se/Porn_Wiki_Leaks/Monica_Foster And NOW we know that Monica Foster is in cahoots with Crystal Cox and why Monica Foster is so against Porn Wiki Leaks.

    After all, it’s all so well – obvious.

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