Interview with the Shampire
James Arthur Ray LOVES to do him some media interviews! He’s a whore’s whore. Where else can one sell one’s stinking demon oils to a massive global audience at no cost to oneself? Exactly! Even if they occasionally {/almost never} make you sound a bit suspect :: you can still say that you were “Featured in Fortune” :: and the sheeple will be oh so fucking impressed. So bring um on! Today Show? Sure. Channel blah blah blah in Omaha? Hellz yeah.
But now … maybe … not so much.
In his first interview since walking out of a “sweat lodge” :: where his customers/students/marks were lying dead or dying on the ground :: and raising his hands in shameful triumph :: James Death Ray spoke with New York Magazine this Friday. Of course :: he needed to be nannied by his fucking lawyers. We wouldn’t want him slipping up and accidentally telling the truth {or saying that the holocaust was awesome}.
Show us what you got Michael J. Gross ::
“Overnight, James Arthur Ray went from being a star of the self-help movement to homicide suspect.
He was admired by Oprah and Larry King; a peer of Deepak Chopra and Tony Robbins; a teacher whose followers paid as much as $60,000 a year to attend his seminars, where his best-selling book, Harmonic Wealth: The Secret of Attracting the Life You Want, was cited as if it were scripture.”
Interesting that the article opens by referencing Deepak Chopra as a “peer” :: Droid commenters say that Ray used to tell a story about living near Chopra and being all chummy with him :: and Depox Crapra was also mentioned in reference to Ray on the aforementioned Fortune article. But Dr. Crapra has “never even heard” of James Ray :: Bullshit!
Q: Did the events in Sedona change your sense that you can help people remember what they’re capable of accomplishing?
A: The events in Sedona have been devastating to me and to all the families, and I feel horrible about what happened there and for the families and for anyone and everyone who’s been affected by it.
NO ONE cares about YOU but YOU girlfriend :: fly larvae are more sympathetic. And that is most definitely not an answer to the question. Question :: Have you changed your mind about your own godhood and infallibility? Answer :: Every time I change shampoos I find myself very disappointed.
He continues with the not-answering of that question …
Q: How has it changed your personal beliefs?
A: I don’t know how to answer that. That right now is not the important issue. The important issue for me is to find the answers to why it occurred and to really bring some closure to this terrible accident.
Right now that’s not the “important issue.” Right now it’s all about “answers” and “closure.” Of course :: five days after the Death Lodge tragedy the “important issue” was gettin’ mo’ mo-fuckin’ money. He went right back out on the blood sucking seminar tour :: business as usual. A PR cock-up that earned him no money :: but did earn him an irritated Salty Droid {has it been worth it so far fat boy?}.
Q: Did you raise your arms in victory at the end of the sweat lodge?
A: When I came out of the sweat lodge, I raised my arms up and they hosed me down.
Natch! :: As if anyone could get hosed down without raising up their arms. I mean please!
Q: Why didn’t you or anyone from your organization contact the family of Kirby Brown, one of the victims, until five days after she died?
A: Well I reached out to the families as soon as I could. What do you do in those situations? I think we all would like to believe that we would do the exact, perfect thing. Would I do some things differently? Probably. But I did the best I could at the time.
He reached out as “soon as he could” :: you know how hard it can be to find a phone these days. It was just dead people after all :: not something serious like credit card charge backs. And he’s going to get around to calling Colleen Conaway’s family too … just as soon as he can.
Q: Has your ego been adjusted by this experience?
A: It’s certainly been, as I said earlier, devastating for every single person that is involved. And shocking for the families and for everyone who’s been impacted like this. And so any kind of significant emotional event of this magnitude has to have an impact.
Shorter Answer :: No.
Q: What justifies the pricing of your events?
A: Well, I think the pricing is determined by the value that people perceive they receive.
dot dot dot … I suck out every penny and leave people for dead. It’s called “EVERYTHING” pricing :: and it’s simple and effective.
Twenty Questions :: Zero Answers = Public Relations Win?? [lawyer interjects] I think you’ll have to rely on the “White Paper” for that answer.
>> bleep bloop
-------------More fabulously hilarious writing ::
- Who’s Your Daddy? Oh Noes!! In terrible news for fans of stealing...
- Six Degrees of Deepak Chopra CNN talks with Melinda Martin :: a “high level”...
- Death Ray Walks Away James Arthur Ray :: Death Ray! … that’s what...
- Hello James Arthur Ray “James Arthur Ray is transforming the way the world...
- James Arthur Ray’s Pre-crime Crimes 100% Iron Clad :: it sounds good … but...
:: read one now before you die of stupid.
‘Well, I think the pricing is determined by the value that people perceive they receive.’
Yep perception is reality.
Tipping point comes when more than a comfortable amount perceive terrible events like these for what they are…
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Yeah, I like the way he “reached out” to Kirby Brown’s family. He waited a number of days and then sent them a FIFTY PERCENT REFUND.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Don’t forget that donation to Kirby’s surfing club which will probably show up on their account real soon, real soon, I’m sure.
And I read somewhere that his friend of 7 years who lay in a coma for nine days without him contacting her, ran up a hospital bill of 300 000. I wonder how much he’s paying Fabiani and that team of “investigators”.
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
I wish they had included one of my favorite comments from Ray’s blog.
Right after the Death Lodge “incident,” he returned to California and posted on his blog that he was going to carry on, business as usual, with his work. “It’s too important not to,” he claimed.
So apparently this guy thought he could act as if nothing had happened, which shows his complete lack of conscience and his complete dis-connect from how normal people would react.
WINNER!! ::
+14
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Biggest douchebag of the week award goes to James “Death” Ray. He has already won it several times, and continues to rack them up.
WINNER!! ::
+8
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Is it just me, or does his use of the term “families” seem as self-serving as all of his other BS. I mean, most of us would say “families of the victims” but when the Deathray says it, it almost like he means the families of JRI, not the victims.
I dunno, it could be my perception bias, knowing what a turd he is and everything.
Off to raise my arms and get hosed. Er, hosed down.
WINNER!! ::
+8
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Yeh, he’s been doing it all along – trying to cast himself as a victim, having gone through such a harrowing experience and lost so many friends, and then even having to put up with copping the “heat” (as he put it) from the sensationalising media.
He really seems to have thought he could use his NLP reframing tactics to create a new reality. Doesn’t seem to have gone down so well with the bereaved or anyone else.
WINNER!! ::
+10
[Reply]
Duff Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 2:05 am
It’s not so much NLP reframing tactics as the strategies of a narcissist and sociopath to blame the victim by playing the victim.
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Amy Hall Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Hi Dave,
As an ex employee of JRI I would say that I’m a victim of the Sweatlodge incident also.
1. I’ve lost my job and my livelihood. My husband is self employed, so I was the one that brought in the steady income. I’ve sent out lots of resumes and haven’t heard back from the majority of them. (I think it is because I have to list JRI as an employer and the fact that my resignation letter was made public.)
2. I’ve lost friends and people that I’ve cared deeply about. I loved helping our clients and made friendships with many of them. And I’m no longer in touch with them because I’m afraid that anything I say will be taken back to the JRI team and used against me. (I have received a Cease and Desit letter from them for the Blogging that my husband Terry has done about this incident.) I had a working relationship with Kirby Brown and Liz Neuman. They were sweet, caring, kind people. The type of people we need more of, not less of. Having these wonderful relationships ripped from me has been hard to deal with. I’m not a James supporter. But I still love and care for James Ray, Megan & Josh Fredrickson, Greg Hartle and Michelle Goulet and wouldn’t wish what they’re going through on my worst enemy. It got to be very hard for them emotionally. But I’m appalled and deeply saddened by their actions during these events, or lack of actions and compassion during this time.
3. When I went to work for JRI I believed in the Law of Attraction and Science of Mind. I had been studying the concepts that James teaches for 5 years prior to my employment at JRI. Now I have such a huge loss of faith, that really my world has been turned inside out.
4. Because I’ve been outspoken about the incident I have been the recipient of some very hurtful things being said about me. I understand that peoples worlds have been rocked to the foundation and I’m glad that if they had to be hurtful toward someone, that at least it was me because I can handle it and move on and not hold it against them.
5. I also have a labor case against JRI totaling $10,000. Which I’ll be very lucky if I see after all of the civil suits are paid.
I also have had nightmares and lots of sleepless night and crying jags and periods of depression because of what Liz, Kirby and James Shore had to go through. So, yes unfortunately, I consider myself a victim of the Sweatlodge Incident also.
I’m not saying this to lessen anything that any of the victims or victims families have had to go through. Just to point out that there are more ‘victims’ of this tragedy than one would think.
Warmest Regards,
Amy hall
WINNER!! ::
+11
[Reply]
Duff Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 2:10 am
I agree that there are more victims of this tragedy than one would think, and I’m sorry that you’ve gone through such things. May you and your family be well.
[Reply]
Rosie Koul Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:27 pm
God Bless you Amy. You have strength, courage, perseverance and are a leader. While you suffer a loss of faith, you are actually creating your faith — for by the convictions of your actions, your outspoken statements and your connection — you show faith in what you know to be right…and the ability to act on it.
I can appreciate your compassion towards Josh, Megan, Michelle, Greg & James. I wish I shared it, but I do not. If they had the level of faith, courage and leadership that you have shown — then maybe, just maybe, the tragedy would not have happened. The universe spoke loudly to them with Colleen’s death — and they chose.
We will never know. Now, they walk the journey they chose with James.
Yes — there are many, many victims, on many, many levels. Your public resignation letter has served to heal many and hear a voice they have been unable to speak.
Continue to speak. Continue to speak from your convictions of faith. See the hateful, hurtful things which are spoken to you for what they are — coming from the same fear & force which manifested the tragedy in the first place.
In honor & memory of Kirby, Liz, Colleen & James Shore.
[Reply]
Excellent work on the magazine cover, Salty. You captured the true essence of Count JRaycula.
[Reply]
3 months later and this all his fancy PR rep and lawyers could come up with? How many times did he defer to the “whitepapers”?
[Reply]
Thanks for your post Amy, that takes guts. My Mother would be proud!
[Reply]
Amy Hall Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Thank you Bryan. Liz was a beautiful soul and I was privileged and honored to know her. If there is anything I can do for you or your family please let me know.
[Reply]
Droid, you’re an artist!
Thank you.
[Reply]
Bryan Neuman Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
Agreed, thank you!
[Reply]
@Amy – My apologies. I did not intend to imply that employees and employee families have not been affected by James Ray’s negligence, only that his use of the term “family” almost excludes the victims who were physically injured at the sweatlodge. His avoidance of the word victim stands out to me.
My sympathy is with all of the victims and their families, including victims of betrayal, like you.
On the other hand, I have nothing but contempt for James Ray and those who defend him.
[Reply]
Amy Hall Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
Hi Dave,
Thank you for that. The way I read it was that James was trying to be all inclusive when he said families. But I could be mistaken as I tend to see the best in everyone.
What I really don’t understand is why anyone would still be defending him and his actions. The fact is that 4 people died at his programs. I don’t see how that can be refuted. It boggles my mind completely why people were/are willing to stay working for him, why some employees like Michelle Goulet still list him as their employer on their Facebook page, and why people still say to wait for all the evidence to come in. Four people, that didn’t die of natural causes, aren’t enough evidence?!? It’s times like these when there isn’t enough crying or chocolate or tequila to make sense of it. (Believe me I’ve tried all three… at the same time.) I will be so happy when the indictment comes in, and even more happy when he is found guilty.
I even think that will relieve James, because from everything I’ve seen and heard from him, I think that he thinks he killed Liz, Kirby and James Shore.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
January 26th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
To Amy:
Well, if he thinks he killed them, then he isn’t completely delusional. It’s not too late for him to do the right thing.
[Reply]
Flashback to when ol’ Jimmy Ray had it goin’ on…or somethin’ like that:
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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jody, Connie L. Schmidt, Cassandra Yorgey, J, Burned by Fire and others. Burned by Fire said: RT @JCYD: Interview with the Shampire….. http://is.gd/76qOA [...]
Droid,
Nice writing. Dont’ know much about this guy except he killed someone and was in the Secret. I thought just being in the Secret was bad enough…
[Reply]
“But Dr. Crapra has ‘never even heard’ of James Ray :: Bullshit!”
An interesting point is raised here, Salty, and I’d love to know what insight anyone has into the TRUTH.
Deepak Chopra James Ray. Was it Chopra who “bent the truth” when he denied any previous affiliation, or even knowledge of, JRI on national television? (I’m referring to the Anderson Cooper interview, but it sounds like he’s denied it on other occasions as well. ?)
Or was Death Ray simply plagued by that “fake it ’til you make it” syndrome that runs so rampant among the self-help “gurus”? After all, it fits right in with Ray’s dumbed-down theory of quantum mechanics that he could pretend a close connection until the electron orbits aligned in such a way that he attracted Dr. Chopra into his life like a freaking MAGNET. ;) (Gaye.)
So did Death Ray exaggerate his connection to Chopra? Or is Chopra just not fessing up? I mean, given their geographic proximity — let alone the seemingly incestuous nature of that industry — I can’t imagine Chopra wasn’t aware of Ray and his organization.
What gives?
~JP
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Cosmic Connie Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Good point, Julie, and one I’ve wondered about myself. When trying to decide who’s fibbing — Ray or Chopra — I think it’s safe to say that both of them are. (After all, they’re New-Wage gurus and their lips are moving.) I’m sure Chopra was at least marginally aware of Ray’s existence, at least after the rise to popularity of “The Secret,” which Chopra publicly commented about. Ray was one of the more visible “stars” of that infomercial, being on Larry King and Oprah more than once, as well as making numerous other media appearances. However, Chopra didn’t seem to be directly involved in any cross-promotional activities with Ray, and thus was far enough removed from him for “plausible deniability.” (Plausible to anyone who’s completely naive about the New-Wage bidness, that is.)
Ray, on the other hand, could only benefit from exaggerating even the most tenuous connection between himself and a big player such as Chopra. And I’m sure he *was* exaggerating about their connection. Of course he’s not the only New-Wage guru to do that. I remember another one who, a few years ago, made a big deal out of the fact that he and Deepak Chopra were the keynote speakers at a New-Wage event. In reality, this guy was one of dozens of speakers at an event that featured Chopra as the opening keynote, and he and Chopra didn’t even do their presentations on the same day.
You pretty much have to take them all with not a grain, but a whole shaker, of salt. Lucky for them that they’re not garden slugs.
WINNER!! ::
+7
[Reply]
Bryan Neuman Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
Informative and well written as always Cosmic Connie! Love your work, thank you!
[Reply]
[...] are other gems, that I won’t get into because Salty Droid already eviscerated the toilet papers. As if these papers aren’t enough, Ray decided to get [...]
One of the most disturbing things that people like Ray and other shills show is their complete lack of empathy or even, god forbid, sympathy. The use religions like Buddhism, and twist the teachings and ideas into something so very fucking disturbing and sell it like they are hocking shamwow’s. This is sadly something we see a lot of crappy ‘motivational’ speakers do. So us Buddhists end up cleaning up the mess made by the ridiculous claims these shitheads make, telling people thats not even close to real Buddhism.
Socio-path + motivational speaker = Watch the fuck out!
Keep up the kick ass work Droid.
WINNER!! ::
+9
[Reply]
RevRon Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 6:55 am
Kyle… Welcome, from another wielder of the mop. :-)
http://tinyurl.com/ye98dsb
And SD… I think i just ruined another keyboard when I saw your magazine cover parody. Someday, I’ll learn not to come here while drinking my morning coffee! Great job.
[Reply]
This guy and his shill in Australia, David Schirmer are classics. They are liars and know it yet they continue to deceive everyone including themselves and in the end they have to face everything that they have said and done. All they are doing in the meantime is destroying a lot of peoples lives by greed and selfishness but then that is what the secret promotes so we shouldn’t expect anything else. When they get desparate for money they create a new pathetic lie to feed their destructive egos and end up in the same mess they always were. They need locking up for a while to reflect on why people hate them so much.
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Read this just now and I believe it explains these guys
“The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come ‘true’. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning.[1] In other words, a prophecy declared as truth when it is actually false may sufficiently influence people, either through fear or logical confusion, so that their reactions ultimately fulfill the once-false prophecy.”
These guys really do believe their own shit and they are evil enough to convince other people that their own lies are truth for personal gain.
[Reply]
From: James Arthur Ray
Subject: New York Magazine Article
Hello, I thought you might be interested in an article which was just published on New York Magazine’s website. While it’s a bit brief and to the point, a lengthier piece is expected in one of the magazine’s upcoming hard copy issues.
I trust you are well and once again thank all of you for your continued love and support for everyone involved.
http://nymag.com/news/features/63259/
Much love and respect,
James Arthur Ray
President/CEO
James Ray International, Inc.
>> If he was expecting a “lengthier piece” then maybe he should have answered some of the questions.
[Reply]
RD Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
… love and support for EVERYONE (don’t forget James) involved …. think I have to purge now.
[Reply]
rwr Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Ray e-mailed what The Droid posted above on 1/27 to followers. That evening, he also tweeted to followers a link about the NY Magazine piece.
Until that point, comments on the article were overwhelmingly against James Ray – crushingly so. After the e-mail and Twitter post, followers began leaving positive comments about Ray and the “accident.”
[Reply]
Dan Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Just a suggestion, but everyone here should go back to that blog and point out what Ray did (as noted by rwr above) – that is, he is directing people to post misinformation and p.r. comments there.
rwr – if you have Ray’s text, also post it there so people can see for themselves what’s going on.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
I don’t have a copy of the text, but I did leave my two cents. Some of those comments really made me mad, such as suggesting that the victims “were ready for a transition.”
Give me a break.
“You can have big plans, but it is the small choices that have the greatest power. They draw us toward the future we want to create.”
Robert Cooper
these dickheads have made their beds now they must lie in them.
[Reply]
What amazes me is that these guys all have the same whacked out way of looking at the world and wonder why everyone is so puzzled with their stupidity.
[Reply]
The retreat owners have now also said something:
http://www.kswt.com/Global/story.asp?S=11893062
and
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012800716.html
“Amayra Hamilton said she advised Ray in 2005 to tone down his sweat lodge ceremonies after a man fell unconscious and was taken to the hospital. Ray’s attorneys said he has since limited the number of rounds, moved the ceremony to daylight hours, set up a recovery station and trained staff in CPR.”
Note – Ray may well have decided to reduce the number of rounds, but one of the witnesses said he counted round 5 twice. (This seems to be confirmed by widespread confusion over whether particular incidents happened in round five or six.)
It should also be noted that the nurse who was “stationed” outside the lodge had herself informed staff she was a nurse, and said she wanted to stay outside. She was inside the lodge in 2008, but finished up leaving after two rounds because she finished up needing to attend to the sick.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 8:43 am
To Yakaru:
Thank you for posting that.
First of all, I LOVE the part about how James Ray sent Ms. Hamilton THREE PLANTS AND A THANK-YOU CARD after the sweat lodge. I have completely changed my opinion of him. Not.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 8:51 am
To Yakaru:
I wanted to add that it seems very clear that James Ray went over everything with a fine-toothed comb to make sure it was exactly the way he wanted it. He approved everything before the retreat started.
If everything had gone swimmingly, he would of course take all the credit. But when something goes wrong, he starts pointing fingers and blaming.
Trying to claim that there was something inherently wrong with the sweat lodge is ludicrous. Okay, it looks like it’s made out of a Wal-Mart swimming pool, but I think it still could have been safe if Ray took any reasonable precautions.
Obviously this “sweat lodge” doesn’t come close to the specifications described by poster Injun Samurai, but if Ray had allowed proper ventilation and kept the heat to a reasonable level, it might have been okay.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Hippo, I guess he would never have sent the plants if he had realised that the whole thing was all her fault. I’m a bit surprised he hasn’t asked for them back.
I would be curious to know whether Ray ordered the plastic tarps, though. The Rick Ross forum people think it was a deliberate decision to try an induce euphoria through oxygen deprivation. They are sometimes a bit over enthusiastic with their analyses, but I think they might be right there.
Even if it wasn’t Ray’s decision, he can hardly claim not to have noticed that his traditional Native American sweat Lodge looked (as you say) like an inverted Wal Mart swimming pool!
[Reply]
Video interview with the retreat owner.
http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=26754@knxv.dayport.com
Apparently when she called 911 in a previous sweat lodge, Ray yelled at her – corroborated by Melinda Martin, who said Ray was furious then, and made it clear no one was to call 911.
Also, I wrote letter a while ago to Sen. Klobuchar and the San Diego Police about Colleen Conaway’s death. I’ve heard back from the SD police, saying it is still listed as suicide, but they’ve contacted the Yavapai investigators etc. It seems they never interviewed any of Ray’s staff about the matter.
The guy invited me to email him if I had any more questions (which I do, and am formulating as tactfully as possible), and also left a cell phone number, which I guess is all very nice and helpful.
I can understand how initially it might’ve seemed inoccuous enough, especially given they would only have had Michele Goulet’s account to go by. But given the bombshells that have been dropped here, as well as the sweat lodge, I don’t see how anyone in their right mind could not have their suspicions aroused.
Does anyone have any ideas what might be motivating the cops? Diffucult case to prosecute and not worth the effort? Stubbornness? Laziness? Bureacratically tricky to re-open? ????
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
To Yakaru:
I think it’s simply a matter of being extremely difficult to prove.
I think they have the same difficulty with people who drive other people to commit suicide over the internet.
Very tough to prove cause-and-effect.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
January 29th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
@Yakaru et al.
A case gets brought when the police or other local investigative agency refers a case to the prosecutor. However :: the prosecutors have lots of pull … and this is a special situation.
The Salty Droid gave a full report to the San Diego DA’s office {via phone} on Nov 19th. I told them {almost} everything I know about Colleen’s tragic {and wrongful} death. I also pointed out that JRI is headquartered within their jurisdiction … and that his financial dealings {particularly the World Wealth Society} seem suspect.
I plan to follow up with them soon.
As long as ya’ll are writing letters :: It’s important that the powerful {and useful} San Diego County District Attorney knows that people care … and want to see justice.
http://www.sdcda.org/office/contact/index.html
[Reply]
Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Thanks for all the info Yakaru and SD. I sent my letter last week. Keep up the great work guys, he’s not behind bars yet and he’s still lying out of his ass.
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I have always wondered who did call 911. I didn’t know it was the owner of the sweat lodge. He yelled at her the first time when she called in 2005. Thank God she called again this time. I just couldn’t believe it in the article when Ray stated the he made sure 911 was called. What a blatant LIE!!
Thank you Yakaru and Salty Droid for all the letters written and phone calls made to the proper agencies!!
[Reply]
Hi,
Iam following this whole stuff for quite some time, altho since I live in Europe I only picked up on it later.Anyhow, I sometimes consult someone, who says to know Arthur Ray privately( I wont tell names now bcause I dont know if thats okay or not,maybe I ask first)…anyhow, to the Point:
Those seminarleaders are specially trained to NOT help people there because from attorney’s view they can get sued more easily if they do help with e.g.breathing support?And thats probably(was never at one) the reason why the seminarleaders are gone pretty quickly and stuffmembers take over, also cauz people associate overwhelm/bad feelings etc. with the leader.
Further JR is also a “victom” in that case because whoever set up the lodge used some bad material,bad plastic or so, which under the heat started to produce harmful gases and ultimately led to People die.
Thats pretty much it, dont know if its true or not, thats how I got it told because I was curious and asked.And honestly I think its a shame if thats true, especially the part with being sued if you help and not helping is easier to protect in case of being sued. At least where I live I can’t imagine it to be true, I know only of cases where people didnt help beeing arrested while those who tried never did.
Opinions?
[Reply]
Contracult Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 5:46 am
@hm
This is one of the dumbest, most offensive posts I’ve ever seen. What are you, some kind of European sockpuppet?
“Arthur Ray” is the victim? Maybe in some kind of psychotic upside down fantasy world. Here on earth he’s the perpetrator of 4 murders including Colleen, and he needs to be arrested ASAP.
People’s association of bad feelings with this “leader” is entirely appropriate. He did cause those feelings. All that nonsense about you can choose your feelings and all that? It’s bullshit. No, it’s horseshit. The unadulterated kind.
James Ray murdered these people. How do you suggest anyone feel good about that?
If you were actually following this, instead of getting distorted info from some brain-dead James Ray zombie follower, you’d know all this. If you’re paying money to this person you consult with, you’re being ripped off. And mind-fucked.
[Reply]
hm Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 9:58 am
jesus,offensive post?I got no idea whats offensive about it, despite it isnt my Opinion as it should be clear from my last Pharagraph and I actually hate the Guy and see no Reason why he shouldnt be guilty.
Iam just saying what I heard from a Coach who knows him personally.I feel sorry for the People who died there and in no way am I supporting JR, my point however, was more aiming towards being more easily sued if you help than if you stand there stupid and doing nothing.
[Reply]
Yakaru Reply:
February 1st, 2010 at 12:27 pm
@hm
The issue isn’t really whether Ray did did enough to help. It’s more the fact that he caused the problem to happen in the first first place by not paying attention to what was happening in front of his nose.
The fact that he came out and sat in the shade while people were dying seems to indicate that he still hadn’t realised what everyone else knew by then. He left the scene at some point to have a shower, and was eating a late lunch when the police arrived to take him in for questioning. Initially he didn’t even want to go, thinking he could order the cop to go and talk to one of his staff.
None of that is especially a crime, but it does suggest that he was totally out of touch with reality. For him to say he could not have known what was going on doesn’t hold water. It was his job to know it, especially given that he promised participants their suffering would not lead to their death, rather to their transformation, if only they stay with it long enough.
His stupid behavior since only confirms the picture of culpably negligent and wreckless behavior.
My OPINION is that if Ray does not get charged then with respect for the suffering that he has caused he should find a new vocation.
[Reply]
Death Ray Arrested for manslaughter!!! Wow! /claps
[Reply]
Noah Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Amazing.
Well done.
[Reply]
_cartman_ Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Salty for president!
Champagne tonight to celebrate!
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:26 pm
To Salty:
Has he actually been arrested?
I just heard on the news that he’s been charged, but they didn’t specify if he’s in custody.
I imagine he’d be out on bail in a New York minute anyway.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm
He’s in custody in AZ.
[Reply]
Hippo Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:34 pm
To Mr. Salty:
I should have read a little more before I posted.
I see in fact that you are correct, and that his bond has been set for five million dollars.
Any guesses on whether he makes bail?
Hippo Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:37 pm
To Mr. Salty:
What kind of jail time would he be looking at for three counts of Manslaughter? Best-case scenario and worst-case scenario?
Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:09 pm
I’ve heard a few different numbers… should be 12 -45 years… please correct me if I’m wrong.
Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:10 pm
CNN and ABC both said he probably can’t afford bail.
Hippo Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:37 pm
I just watched CNN’s coverage. Reporter Gary Tuchman stated that each count of Manslaughter could be as little as four years and as many as ten years.
I am wondering if there will be additional charges? Surely, in all of his douche-baggery, there have got to be some other criminal violations.
Bryan Neuman Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Also heard 3 years and a maximum of 12 1/2 years on each count.
I just popped over here to see what pithy commentary you’d be adding to the good news, Salty. May the families start to heal a little, and may the prosecution do their jobs well.
[Reply]
Rosie Koul Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Hear Hear. Godspeed to the prosecutors.
[Reply]
I used to work with James Ray from 1986 to 88 at the AT&T National Telemarketing Center in Kansas City on the 22nd floor. I remember him being a bodybuilder that had a personality that mesmerized the women. He was a Telemarketing Trainer that was brought into Kansas City to train new hires to market AT&T Calling Cards and Long Distance Calling Plans, primarily Reach Out America. He was later reassigned as an ASM Assistant Sales Manager(SG-4), and oversaw a telemarketing sales group.
I am quite surprised at the level of success he achieved, although he seemed to have the personality of someone who would. I can’t honestly say the person I knew was a scam artist, but having been in the sales environment of AT&T during that period, I can understand how ethical boundries can be blurred because you become psychologically focused on nothing but making the money. He was a person who desired success. He was an immaculate dresser, ate healthy and was a very successful bodybuilder. His girlfriend was a bodybuilder as well, and WOW…was she hot!
May God have mercy on James. I don’t believe he intended for anyone to die, but I can see where he may have been negligent in his actions or in this case..inactions.
[Reply]
James Arthur Roid Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 7:40 am
He even looks like a deflated roid-head.
[Reply]
SD Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Thanks for the comment @Richard :: that’s interesting. A body building mesmerizer of women … sounds familiar to me.
Two points ::
1. He wasn’t really that successful. His success depended on all sorts of games that he had little or nothing to do with. He was mostly lucky … and then vicious.
2. I know what you’re saying about the ethical blurring that can occur in a sales environment :: but James was way beyond that. He wasn’t really selling anything at all … it was just old school … full on … human manipulation. Take people for EVERYTHING … then scrape them off.
[Reply]
PsychoBabble Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
“He was a Telemarketing Trainer…”
Great foundation for becoming a total DB
[Reply]
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