Home » Boiler Rooms, David Sipes, John Raygoza, PushTraffic, Utah

Phones :: Lies :: & AudioTape

Author == 6 February 2012 70 Comments

Remember when I made us all listen to Debbie :: a secretary in her mid-fifties making $26K :: getting scammed by a Utah boiler room for five figures? It was awful :: lots of people couldn’t listen to it all the way through.

Whatever!

I refuse to accept that. If you want to follow this story :: or be a part of this cause … then go listen to that fucking tape and force yourself to deal with the suffering it causes you. It’s what’s happening here :: almost everything boils down these horribly sad and vicious moments … selling grandmas on pre-made websites purported to rank #1 in Google for Netflix {or whatever} and open a vortex to the magical internets money hole.

Don’t call me a hater :: or a loser. Don’t ask for my help. Don’t tell me to tone it down. Don’t bitch about my tagline. Don’t ask me to be on your fucking TV show … or to do an interview for your website. Don’t ask me :: “who are the good ones?” Don’t fucking speak to me at all if you haven’t listened to Debbie getting done by the Mormon Mafia division of the sick machine.

But :: but … I’m not going to do that to us again. There’s something about gut wrenching sadness that just doesn’t quite fit with the fake robot humor site motif. Thus :: the Boiled Lemonade audio logs from John Paul Raygoza’s PushTraffic scam will be presented {mostly} sans victims … in the much more palatable “mock the bastards” style.

And so we begin …

BoilerRooms make outbound calls to “leads” produced internally {like with The Truth} :: or “leads” produced externally {like with Anthony Morrison infomercials}. But once a “lead” is “closed” {aka scammed into a bullshit purchase} the process has only just begun. For months/years later the victim will repeatedly call in :: confused and panicking … wanting to know why they’ve made zero pennies instead of the promised $10K per week or more. These fear calls represent an opportunity for the boiler room to upsell the victim on even more fake services.

“It didn’t work because you had even less experience than we thought :: let us “do it for you” this time for double the cost. It can’t fail because we obviously know exactly what we’re doing :: being Internet millionaires ourselves” … etc.

“Saving the sale” :: and upselling inbound panic calls … constitutes more than half of the labor associated with running a boiler room.

On John Paul Raygoza’s boiler room floor :: Robert Artino was the fixer-in-chief. Artino is an excellent con man :: much more capable than the others :: and his job was to keep the big fish on the hook. He rarely failed … it was pretty fucking scary how good he was at it.

Here are the main d-bags calling Rob about a lady who PushTraffic is into for $50,000. Keep in mind that they all know with 100% certainty that their victims will never make any money at all from their complete and total bullshit. One of the persons on the line is a filthy rotten attorney who should lose his license immediately.

… twelve different fucking transactions …

She sounded scared :: like her voice was trembling … we’re gonna wine and dine her.

>> bleep bloop

-------------

More fabulously hilarious writing ::

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  4. Evil FTC dot Gov Jeremy Johnson is fighting back against the injustice of...
  5. Boiled Gnome You know I hate me some gnomes :: the...

:: read one now before you die of stupid.

70 Comments »

  • zipnar said:

    Frist!

    Who is this mysterious “Mike” they refer to as “handling” the woman?

    The vindictive part of me is hoping it’s Filsaime…

    … but, alas, I’m guessing you would have mentioned that in the post if that were the case, eh?

    Even when I was overly optimistic and naive, I always knew there was something slimy and wrong about Filsaime.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 12:45 am

    @zipnar ::

    Nope.

    But his name does come up.

    [Reply]

    # 6 February 2012 at 5:25 pm
  • GV said:

    These fukn guys! They can’t even have a decent conversation betwixt themselves. They sound like they’re trying to scam each other.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 2:09 am

    @GV ::

    … but at least they’re all breathing normally!

    {inside jokes FTW}

    [Reply]

    # 6 February 2012 at 6:11 pm
  • Juice said:

    The internet has shown how far evolution has and is going backwards. We’ll be walking on all fours again soon. Its just so sad, that because they can, they do. Robbing bastards.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 2:22 am

    @Juice ::

    Or maybe the Internet just lets us see the backwards ass shit that’s always been going on so that we can finally do something about it?

    That’s what I’m going to believe so I don’t implode.

    [Reply]

    Head Honcho Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    @SD, I tend to think it’s the latter, @SD. The scams have been going on for decades…long before there was an InterWeb. Direct mail isolated the marks from one another. The InterWebs opens up communication among the marks so just a few burned souls is all it takes to set up an alarm we can all pass around.

    One of the worst nightmares of the old direct mail scammers involved arriving at a party that turns out to be a room full of all their past victims — and they’ve been talking together for weeks leading up to it.

    These guys show the attitude. But they’re forgetting all it takes is one recording picked up by the wrong person.

    Then again — it’s been asked here before. They’re actually stupid enough to record these conversations.

    Stupefragmented Attractionism at its best.

    I should patent that.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Wyrd Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    @SD,

    Yeah, that’s what I think too. It fits with my general worldview that people are still mostly the same now as 1000 years ago. The specific things people believe may have changed and so we wear different clothes, shout different slogans, and are less likely to drop dead of a random unknown disease. (Absent healthcare we have the not-fun prospect of dropping dead from a completely treatable disease).

    But basically–people are people.

    Scammers gotta scam.

    I bet just after some ingenious dude figured how to make fire the second time, some mystic off to his (or her) left was waxing religious/philosophical about how some extra-natural being must be really responsible. Next to him, there’s yet another guy that doesn’t give a toss about religion, but is all too willing to set himself up as the prophet (for profit!). “See my friend over there with the fire! If you want it to keep going, better start making offerings to Prometheus via my stomach. Sacrifice to me 1/4 of all your best food and the fire keeps burning. Scouts honor!”

    –
    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    # 6 February 2012 at 7:21 pm
  • Anonymous said:

    Man.. This is good!

    I hope to god it’s Filthysma..

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    # 6 February 2012 at 9:47 pm
  • I wantz 2B rich said:

    I listened to the audio. How ruthless these people are. She doesn’t even own a computer. And if she declines, she’s already on the sucker list – they’ll keep targeting her until they part her from her money.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    # 6 February 2012 at 9:51 pm
  • realestateguru said:

    A real service would be to identify which list owners are coughing up their database’s to these assholes for a piece of the action. Then, go after the list owners and expose them to their subscribers, thus killing their affiliate income. just a thought.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 2:07 am

    @realestateguru ::

    Yeah but … that’s what this blog is already about.

    Guess who is selling out to boiler rooms?

    Everyone. Anyone who hasn’t done it directly has done it indirectly by pushing their list to the A-teamers via some lame affiliate promotion crap.

    It funds a huge portion of the other bullshit. If you’re in “Internet Marketing” … this blood is on you already.

    Should be more than me and a tiny handful of souls speaking out :: because it’s a massive assload of peeps who have profited from the misery … directly or indirectly.

    [Reply]

    # 6 February 2012 at 10:17 pm
  • The Hammer said:

    That was vomit-worthy. Which goon is the attorney and what’s his name?

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    @The Hammer ::

    It’s not perfectly clear … so I’ll just leave it at what I already said for now. But a couple of attorneys have been very naughty. I hates me some naughty attorneys.

    [Reply]

    # 6 February 2012 at 10:30 pm
  • Formerly Scammed said:

    Lawsuits and class actions against “Stores Online” and variants

    http://www.storesonline-reviews.com/storesonline-refund

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    Dale Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 6:22 am

    @Formerly Scammed, There it is, yet again: UTAH. “The Headquarters for Fraud in America.” They need to change the Utah state logo to a boiler room.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    # 7 February 2012 at 3:21 am
  • Shit Storm said:

    What everyone needs to understand & grasp is that any and all ‘sellers’ are complicit in this.

    They coordinate and sell each others bullshit products…thus sharing their lists down the line.

    They all know this is where their list ends up and they get paid directly or indirectly for any sales that come from this

    Nobody is clean

    That harmless $27 ebook that you think doesn’t belong in this scam is most definitely part of this scam

    We need to start including names of every person involved

    Then we need to start naming their family members in these articles…

    If a family member benefits financially they have blood on them as well

    If they don’t then we need to start asking them in print if they know their kin is ripping people off

    I guarantee you that having your website appear #1 in Google for their name will get their attention

    I guarantee calls will be made and pressure will be exerted

    I also think we need to start listing the local & state politicians of these con men because they’re doing absolutely nothing

    I guarantee when they see your site ranked #1 in Google for their name they will sit up and take action

    I also think we need to start collecting money so we can advertise these scams

    Drive them to this site

    Drive them to petitions we send to politicians

    At the very least I would like a SaltyDroid approved banners so I can run ads on this sites behalf…I’m pretty good at driving traffic.

    Those are just my tame ideas…I have more aggressive ones like hiring PI to get serious dirt on these con artists

    It would sicken you to know what they’re doing with their ill gotten gains

    I think it’s time we got better coordinated

    Time to take the gloves off and take the fight to them

    Thumb up Thumb down -3

    [Reply]

    Alison Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    @Shit Storm,

    To be fair, Salty has already given my name, my kids’ names, and my in-laws names. I think the Navarro clan is covered re: blood on hands.

    It’s something I deal with daily. I’m still seeking employment, so in the interim, whatever funds Dave sends are what we live on. Those funds were acquired through him claiming to be an expert of sorts on something in which I sincerely doubt there can be any expertise. It’s a dirty feeling knowing your children are fed with money out of other people’s pockets via Naomi Dunford’s manipulations (since my husband claims to be working for her now). There have been many sleepless nights where I try to figure out how to get out from under that financial thumb, believe me.

    Do I really want any Google searches for me or my family members to show Salty’s site as the #1 hit for us? Not really. Employers look at that sort of thing and I’m pretty desperate for employment right now. But you know what? I’ll deal with it if it means that all of the lies and scams are stopped.

    Regarding some of your other points: How do you suggest money be collected? Who collects it? How do you verify that the money is going where it’s supposed to go? There are a few “regulars” here that I believe can be trusted with that, but how do you convince people who are passing by due to random Google searches that any money collection taking place through this site is for watchdog purposes and not just another scam?

    I’m not knocking your ideas, just playing skeptic’s advocate. :)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +20

    [Reply]

    Wyrd Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    @Alison,

    I’m still seeking employment, so in the interim, whatever funds Dave sends are what we live on.

    This may be kind of a dumb question for me to ask, but:
    Is there maybe some way that someone from your (if you go to one) or Anthony’s church could help you with the finding work thing?

    Church communities are usually good at that sort of thing. If they can’t do that, they should at least be able to help some with the getting by day-to-day part.

    Good luck.

    P.S. For the record, I’m not knocking your current better-than-nothing-just-barely income source. Pragmatism should always come before pride, IMHO. That’s because food bought with internet monies still tastes better than the empty stomach bought with pride.

    But on that same note, maybe the church thing.

    –
    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Alison Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    @Wyrd,

    Hi Wyrd – my church family do give me leads occasionally. So far none have panned out, but that’s not to say something won’t soon. Anthony and Laura live about 3 hours away, and unless I pack the boys up and move there, most of their church’s leads would be useless to me.

    I have a 10 year gap in my resume from being a stay-at-home that, unfortunately, the random online journal post doesn’t fill regarding experience. :p I had hoped to work for the school system again, but their policies have recently changed (don’t get me started!) and I’m no longer considered “experienced” enough for them.

    Thanks for your thoughts, though. I appreciate them!

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    jacqui Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    @Alison,

    You are truly inspirational…and an awesome role model for your kids. :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Alison Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    @jacqui,

    I’m going to stifle my laughter for a second and assume you’re being totally sincere. Thank you. :) I don’t see myself as a positive role model in all this – more that I’m just fumbling my way around trying to do the best I can with an emotional handicap (a Dave-shaped hole in our lives).

    I have an unfinished college degree, I sleep on a couch, and I’m on an anti-depressant for social anxiety just to get through the job interview process. I have a tendency to wear my heart on my sleeve and do an awful job of picking the right words to convey important information/feelings.

    I’m sitting here in yesterday’s jeans and t-shirt (although it is an awesome t-shirt, and the jeans are really comfy) typing on a five year old laptop that’s slowly grinding to a halt responding to a comment by someone I don’t know on a website that targeted my husband’s income instead of taking a shower and getting ready for my doctor’s appointment.

    I gave my children toaster strudels and bacon for breakfast, I’m not entirely sure if my sleep-addled memory of brushing my teeth this morning is real or imagined, and I have a basket full of unmated socks to deal with when I get home this afternoon.

    All that to say, I’m not feeling very role-model-y. More of a warning to others about what not to let happen to you. :-p

    Thank you, though. I do appreciate what you said, it brought a smile to my face.

    …although, if you’re being sarcastic, high-five, sister!

    (And after perusing your blog, if you don’t follow @TheBloggess on Twitter, you should.)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +11

    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    @Alison,

    Regarding the socks, have you tried safety-pinning the matching ones together?

    Also sitting here in yesterday’s shirt and jeans, that’s all the advice I’m qualified to offer, but maybe it will bring a little order to your chaos today :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    It could happen to anyone Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    @Alison,

    Few people could deal with what you’ve had to go through as well as you appear to, and that’s including what you’ve said above. As for the money you’re sent, I’d do the same (and far worse) in order to ensure their wellbeing until I could secure alternative funding.

    A large proportion of this site’s readers admire your strength in an awful situation, and I’m one of them. Thank you for speaking out – I was on the verge of buying into the Third Tribe Unicorn dream, and your story has ensured that I’ll never do that.

    Thank you.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    jacqui Reply:
    February 9th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    @Alison,

    I was actually being totally sincere. I might say something sarcastic to you in the future…but I didn’t this time. ;)

    You’ve been knocked down…but I don’t see you staying down. The attitude with which you’re handling your situation is very inspirational for others.

    And thanks for the tip…Jenny and I do follow each other on twitter. I’m glad you and I do now as well.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    KG Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    @Alison,

    Ditto the inspirational role model. Placing your kids as a priority is an end that justifies the means. While the “means” in your case is far from optimal, you are actively seeking to change it for the betterment of everyone.

    I wish you good luck and hope you find secure employment really soon.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Mike Reply:
    February 9th, 2012 at 2:03 am

    @Alison,

    Hi Alison,

    Just wanted to say that I appreciate your comments and wish the best for you..sorry you’re going through this.

    Mike

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Shit Storm Reply:
    February 13th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    @Alison,

    Appreciate the candor and truly appreciate your situation but I don’t think you’re the norm in this situation…at least you’re troubled taking the money.

    Frankly your husband make pennies compared to the big scammers

    I believe we need to target the biggest offenders and take the snakes head off…start with big names

    Lets see what happens when their whole life is exposed…

    Thumb up Thumb down -1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    @Shit Storm ::

    But your message is mixed :: mixing your messages is bad like mixing your liquors {in that later you have mucho regrets and puke on your shirt}.

    “Taking off the gloves” is a metaphor about fighting dirty … any means necessary … outside of the rules of the game and of sportsmanship. You take off the gloves so you can pull some lady’s hair.

    The fight for higher virtues has to be fought with still higher virtues or it will fail.

    I’ve deleted comments before {left by people I really like} because they mentioned family members in ways I couldn’t accept. Always and forever!

    Winning at all costs isn’t winning.

    @Alison ::

    You should give me as a reference for your extreme coolness and sophistication under pressure!

    [Reply]

    Alison Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 8:33 am

    @SD, I would totally use you as a reference, only I think that most preschools don’t like robots who curse like drunken sailors. (That’s an assumption, I should ask before I declare that as fact.)

    Then again, maybe not using you as a reference is why I haven’t been hired yet. I’m going to have to think on this one. ;)

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +12

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    @Alison ::

    Very :: very … few drunken sailors can curse like me!

    [Reply]

    Shit Storm Reply:
    February 13th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    @SD,

    My apologies for using the wrong metaphor…

    let me start by saying that I want this done legally

    I am talking about being more aggressive with how we pursue this

    I am talking about being more mainstream with the reporting on this site

    I am talking about being more pro active in how we obtain information

    I understand and appreciate Allison problems and I certainly don’t want to add to hers but to say that families don’t benefit from this theft is not being honest either.

    For the record I think guys like Dave Navarro are so far down the list we should start much higher up with our investigation and also expose the whoever is benefiting from this theft

    If someone is living in a mansion from this theft then that needs to be exposed no?

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 13th, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    @Shit Storm ::

    Just because something is legal :: doesn’t necessarily make it right … effective … or prudent.

    There are many ways in which you yourself benefit from corruption and harm. This morning I was reading an article on my iPhone about how horrible are the labor practices that built my iPhone. It’s fucked :: and it’s good to think about it … what hypocrites we all are … always.

    But the sort of harsh blame I administer can only be leveled against people who’s harms are intentional … it’s a very important distinction to me. Other’s are free to do whatever they want in their own quest for justice … but that’s how I roll.

    PS :: Alison is only an exception in that she was bravely willing to talk in public about the problem. But in that she was trapped between and rock and a hard spot … and didn’t really understand what this shit was all about … she’s completely representative of the vast majority of these situations. That’s why her story was so important to the story even though :: like you say … Dave was :: and is :: a nobody.

    [Reply]

    # 7 February 2012 at 6:18 am
  • Jack said:

    I just have to keep hearing eery words, “She’s in for it” running through my ears.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    # 7 February 2012 at 12:59 pm
  • Wyrd said:


    “Who are the good ones?”

    That sounds like the question of someone who has started to lose their faith in the Greater Glory of the Unicorn Dream but they just can’t let go all the way. That person that asks that has probably already invested a non-trivial chunk of time and/or money (usually money) on the Third Tribe or IM-MMO scammer mind-set/worldview/f*ck-me-harder thing and doesn’t want to have to write off that whole time/money thing as the absolute and total loss that it is.

    But that also means that–just by them asking that question–there’s a chance they’ll come around and wake up all the way, given time and encouragement.

    –
    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    @Wyrd ::

    That’s the most popular thing to say to the fake robot by like a factor of ten … prolly followed by “go fuck yourself” in a strong second place.

    [Reply]

    Wyrd Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    @SD,

    Yeah, it was only after I posted that, that I followed your link to a (way) past article in which you answer the “What are the good ones?” question once and for all.
    –
    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    # 7 February 2012 at 1:31 pm
  • Syndicate H8r said:

    As a longish fan of this site my honest opinion is at the current rate this site is stalling at best. The momentum that should have been gained wayyyy back from the syndicate andy and jeff tape should have exploded thru the webs…but it fizzeles out. In fact i see less and less people coming here and thru no fault of you salty (youre my hero btw). And why is this site failing slowly imo? We arent doing enough to help. If we want a change we must do something instead of just waiting for the next post — and the more direct action steps you can reccomend after eah post salty the better — this site and measage needs help and its up to us

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:
    February 7th, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    @Syndicate H8r,

    “We arent doing enough to help.”

    I came to say about Salty notworking fast enough, but probably yours is good, too.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    Regrets Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    @Syndicate H8r, if you do not see the changes this site has wrought then maybe you weren’t around in the peak days of the internet scammer-fest? Remember entire forums devoted to worshiping the Crappy Ones… where these assholes would openly berate, insult, and curse out the very customers who were lining their slimy pockets… and hoards of their stupid groupies, I mean affiliates, would come out to join in and pile it on? And there was no one to stop them because (of course) any comments would get drowned out or deleted.

    Now these sub-humans have categories on this site that will NEVER go away. Yeah, there are some attempts to get some new scams rolling, pathetic “launches” and so on but not exactly with the same mania from yesteryear. Because of course it will show up on this site pretty quick.

    Jail time is good, but getting enough people to “not buy crap” works pretty well too.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    # 7 February 2012 at 7:49 pm
  • The Surprise Return Of John Denton said:

    [...] the most recent Droid blog post providing behind-the-scenes audio of the sales operation is just the tip of the [...]

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    # 7 February 2012 at 10:31 pm
  • G said:

    Actionable points at the end of each post might be a good idea. Especially if at least one of them is something like “take a dump on this scammer’s door-step”. Of course liability for inciting riots of shit-flingers and so on might be aproblem…maybe you could add some fantasy action points with a disclaimer…like unicorn dreams… that come real ! :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 3:12 am

    I have some discombobulated thoughts about this issue.

    Every enterprise reaches a point where the owner needs to delegate certain tasks in order for the growth to continue. Salty, do you know what tasks you want to delegate and to whom?

    The goal of this particular venture has always been to put IM/MMO scammers – and itself – out of business, right? Is it stalling because Internet people aren’t falling for IM/MMO anymore? Is scammers’ use of boiler rooms to telephone people without Internet access a sign of the decline of the IM/MMO scams? Or does Salty Droid need to evolve past the Internet to warn those people? Like, street teams in robot costumes doing skits at assisted living facilities? If IM/MMO were to be shut down, would Salty Droid shut down or tackle another type of scam?

    Regarding ads: Does it make more sense to aggregate funds or just provide an approved banner, like @Shit Storm says, and allow individuals to run them ourselves? The latter would alleviate the money questions @Alison brings up. In terms of dominating SEO, what terms would we try to own? Scammers are always using different versions of their names, using front people, and changing the names of their products and companies, so we need a real SEO strategy expert on that. Also, isn’t running ads for names that are not your own considered black-hat by Google and the like?

    Anyway, CTAs FTW. Tell me what to do.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    @Lanna et al. ::

    I’ll just add to what @mirele said below that :: I kinda wanna grow up to be a revolutionary … not a generalissimo.

    I don’t know what other people can do to help. Unless other people counts The New York Times … or someone at FBI CyberCrimes who gives a fucking fuck … then yeah I have some really specific instructions … but otherwise no.

    It sounds yuckily self-serving to say just stay inside of my wake :: helping in whatever way your own life allows and affords … but it’s the best thing to say. People help me in all sorts of small and huge ways every day {like reading [small] and commenting [huge] for example} … it’s working awesomely. Controlling the chaos is impossible … so just roll with it.

    This can’t be planned out with maths or SEO’s :: it’s a human battle … a social battle.

    About the site “stalling” or whatever :: let me put all your fragile little minds at ease … this dumb site is getting powerful like a motherfucker. It’s growing just like a social virus on the greatest network of all time should grow :: and the chances are better than ever of forcing real change … meaningful change not just driving off this or that d-bag for sport.

    Keep the faith tiny tots :: I keep saying we’re winning because we are winning.

    [Reply]

    Syndicater H8r Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    @SD,

    Im was only observing from my limited data that less people seem to be commenting (where as I would think there should be a hell of a lot more these days). Many people Ive directed to this site (including my own mother) still seem unshaken in their favorite guru because “hes not like those other guys”. I try to explain “These fuckers are ALL THE SAME”. Maybe thats a post idea haha WHY ALL GURUS ARE THE SAME!

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    @Syndicater H8r ::

    That’s not quite how it works … and the number of comments isn’t a very meaningful measure of anything {except maybe self-serving troll irritation levels … a post with 600 comments usually has 300 crap comments}. Neither is one day :: or one month’s :: web traffic a good measure of anything. It’s like a sustained series of small waves that all build on each other over a long period.

    The site’s baseline readership is 5 to 7 times greater than it was in the period following the 2010 Jeff & Andy thing.

    And don’t forget that unlike the gurus … this blog isn’t trying to get people attached forever. If a story here is successful … then interest in that story should wane over time as the fake guru’s glimmer is ground down to turd dust … and many people turn their backs on the idea forever. Thousands and thousands of James Ray’s soon-to-be-ex-followers came here during that saga and heard what they needed to hear … most will move on to heal in other ways … only hundreds will stay on for more of this crazy ride.

    I think that’s just about right … be free little birds … be free!

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    @SD, Awesome man-droid. Awesome view. Awesome logic. Truly excellent brain-mechanics going on in that positroinc brain of yours.

    I do have one question. I have a small family and work full time. How do you find the time to do all this? My blog hasn’t had an update in months and not because I am short of funny shit to write, but I have no time. Are you like secretly wealthy and just can afford to do this most of your days?

    (The imp in me wants to say…or is it because YOU know the REAL secret to making loads of cash online?!? Just kidding droid, put the blaster away, it was a joke!)

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    1974 Dodge Monaco Reply:
    February 9th, 2012 at 12:01 am

    @Anonymous,

    This should explain everything:

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    Phil Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    @Syndicater H8r, You can’t conclude that from comments. Few blog readers ever comment, statistically.

    This site has also grown large in size and there are thousands and thousands of comments. Much of the representative explaining of how these scammers deceive has been well flushed out because of it. It’s all a great and comprehensive read. SD’s ongoing posts add an up-to-date element to keep people continuously informed.

    Don’t for a minute think this blog doesn’t get the word out or doesn’t have a growing, significant impact, because it most certainly does.

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    Syndicate H8r Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    @Phil & SD

    Glad to know XD

    Rock on Salty, I’m on for the long ride :)

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    # 8 February 2012 at 12:55 am
  • mirele said:

    I’d just like to point out that getting rid of Internet scamsters is not something that is going to happen overnight. I’ve been pushing, pulling and prodding at the space alien cult of greed and power since around 1994. It’s only been within the last four years or so that I can say the scales have tipped in the direction of great justice.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that there’s likely not to be any such Last Battle or final confrontation with Voldemort or whatever. Battles are won and lost, and gains may look incremental. But it’s only when you look back over a period of months or years that you can say, why yes, since 20**, this has happened: number of convictions, changed regulations, people put out of business or forced to get jobs flipping burgers at Mickey D’s, people who realize that they f*cked up and go back to making an honorable living, that sort of thing.

    If you’re going to take on a hydra (and Internet marketing is as much a hydra as the $cientologists), you have to be prepared to be patient. I am not patient, but I’m learning.

    WINNER!! :: Thumb up Thumb down +7

    [Reply]

    # 8 February 2012 at 8:05 am
  • Rafael Marquez said:

    They were really worried about the chargebacks coming through. It seems like they know they don’t have much of a leg to stand on when Visa comes a calling and charging them back for 12 different transactions.

    Thumb up Thumb down +6

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    @Rafael Marquez, They need studying-up with Jeremy Johnson miracle payment processing blueprint.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    @Rafael Marquez,

    I just listened to it again. They definitely seem more worried about her doing 12 chargebacks than they are about losing $50,000 in revenue.

    @SD, Is there more audio to this call, or was this really an all-hands-on-deck emergency call about the danger of 12 chargebacks? It seems like they get on, and once Dave explains “what Mike told her that settled her down” then the call’s over.

    I heard Chase Paymentech now wants to see your website – including terms and conditions – before they’ll authorize a merchant account for an e-tailer. I guess they got tired of chargebacks from these clowns.

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Head Honcho Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    @Lanna, I heard an extreme fear regarding those potential charge backs. Didn’t I also hear it would be “extremely detrimental” or something like that to the company?

    Interesting note going back to the discussion, above, about this site’s growth: months ago, these guys would have been raking it in so fast 12 charge backs from one disgruntled customer wouldn’t matter all that much.

    This site *is* making a huge difference and, as mentioned by so many, it’s an incremental effect. They won’t all stop at once. Many will drop off. Some will downscale and continue. They’re all going after a smaller and smaller pie, however, thanks to that cumulative effect.

    Keep it relentless!

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    [Reply]

    Lanna Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    @Head Honcho,

    Their cheapo conference call service mutes ‘em when they interrupt each other, but I think at 1:35 I heard:
    “That’s gonna put a really big -”
    “I -”
    ” – [hit/pain] on the business.”

    Thumb up Thumb down 0

    [Reply]

    SD Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    @Lanna ::

    That was the whole thing :: and yeah they’re totally obsessed with avoiding chargebacks … it’s a constant topic of conversation.

    And if she does try to do the chargeback … they’ll be willing to say or do anything to fight it. Cause like @Jack points out above :: not everybody can pull off the hundreds of thousands of chargebacks that Johnson and his corrupt bank were doing.

    However :: the credit card company complicity in this mess is going to be part of the story … they’re on the tapes helping total bastards bleed out old ladies.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:
    February 8th, 2012 at 10:45 pm

    @SD, OOOhhh….ohhhh…bankster fucks in with boiler room fucks…what a treat. Can’t wait for those audios!!

    Seriously, this site is becoming like the fire at the campsites of old where the wise old tribesman passed on wisdom that saved lives to the younger cavemen.
    Or maybe it’s like crack. Either way, addictive.

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    # 8 February 2012 at 2:55 pm
  • Mike said:

    No one deserves this nonsense…I think Alison has the patience and heart of a Saint…or something better…

    This IMO, is why TSD exists….to open the eyes and hopefully bring justice to people…

    I’d be curious to know how this plays out.

    Kudos Robot

    Thumb up Thumb down +5

    [Reply]

    # 9 February 2012 at 2:08 am
  • zipnar said:

    I don’t know where else to post this, but since this is under the “Boiler Room” category, I figured I would comment here.

    I’m a little surprised that nothing about Dan Kuschell has ever come up here.

    I’m not usually one for judging a book by it’s cover, although it sure worked for me with Mike Filsaime. (Creepy, slimy, used car salesman… not to insult honest used car salespeople…)

    But just look at a picture of Kuschell. I always got an uneasy feeling:

    http://goo.gl/etKge

    Maybe he is not high profile enough, but I am convinced that Kuschell is responsible for bilking older and disabled people for $1000s, most likely through boiler rooms.

    I used to work for a business who had a similar name as one of the “business” outfits that Dan Kuschell used to run.

    (The guy that I worked for was an author and one-on-one business coach who actually had a pretty good track record for helping solo entrepreneurs run their businesses more effectively. However, one of the reasons I stopped working for him was that he pitched the same BS frauducts as the rest of the IM and self-improvement scene. Actually, some of the crap that he pitched was even worse… It seemed so out of integrity with who he is. I called him on it multiple times, and he went right back to doing it. It was a HUGE eye-opener to the workings of how the self-improvement scene actually operates. I was shocked!)

    But back to Kuschell.

    I lost track of all the emails and voicemails that I got from people (and banks!) asking for refunds or to cancel their coaching package of $2000, $4000, and more. Some of these things were one time payments of $1000s, while other times it was a monthly payment of $500 or more.

    Sometimes it was 1 a month. Sometimes it was 3 per week.

    It was explained to me that there was another coaching company with a very similar name (though I wasn’t told who owned that other shady company). Any of the people who left those messages were given the contact information for what I later found out was Kuschell’s company. (I don’t want to say in this comment who I was working for. I’m pretty sure nobody here has ever heard of the company, but if you research Kuschell long enough, it should be easy to figure it out.)

    It was abundantly clear that every single person requesting a refund or cancellation had NO business purchasing anything of this nature, and probably had no business in the first place! They had a monthly subscription to unicorn dreams, plain and simple. They all sounded down on their luck, confused, and often elderly. Many times it was actually the grownup son or daughter of someone who had a HUGE charge on their statement and had no idea what it was for or why it was there.

    Seriously fucked up.

    I’m just trying to get this piece started. Here is a simple search for Dan Kuschell:
    http://goo.gl/Ay3mV

    Notice how the #1 result is DanKuschellScam.com, which is a primary “reputation management” tactic of lots of scammers (e.g. Malinchak et al).

    He has many legitimate, negative unresolved reports at BBB, ComplaintBoards, RipOffReport, etc.

    Keep this guy on your radar (or sonar), as he still seems to be rather active, even if not high profile.

    Thumb up Thumb down +3

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:
    February 11th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    @zipnar, According to The Dan Kuschell Blog:

    “Dan Kuschell™ is a well known marketer. Just like anyone else Dan Kuschell™ is aware of all the scams that there are online and off-line. Many of these scams are very well known but some other are very new tricky and this makes them harder to spot.”

    So maybe first we should let him know about it, because maybe it was too tricky for him to figure it out. Or could let his Max Profit friend mr. Bacak

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:
    February 11th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    @Jack, …know so he can warn mr. Kuschell.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    zipnar Reply:
    February 12th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    @Jack,

    Yeah, ‘cuz that press release look totally legit and all.

    No self-aggrandizing going on there whatsoever.

    One of those guys should totally report this tricky, hard to spot scam to Mr. Kuschell.

    I’m sure he’d write all about it on his blog.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:
    February 12th, 2012 at 1:59 am

    @zipnar, I think going for the technical term from his Atrick-style writeup it’s “very new tricky” scams:

    “but some other are very new tricky and this makes them harder to spot.”

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Doesn't Smell Too Good Reply:
    February 12th, 2012 at 1:59 am

    The BBB revoked his business accreditation and gave him a D- score:

    http://www.bbb.org/phoenix/business-reviews/marketing-consultants/a-champion-vision-inc-in-scottsdale-az-10005426/

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:
    February 12th, 2012 at 2:02 am

    @Doesn’t Smell Too Good, BBB hands out the “A’s” and “F’s” like candy, but for getting the “D-” it takes some special talent.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    Doesn't Smell Too Good Reply:
    February 12th, 2012 at 2:04 am

    @zipnar, It looks like he is offering “SCAM MENTORING” based on the title of his video, “Dan Kuschell Scam Mentoring.”

    Maybe he should mention the tip about checking with the Better Business Bureau:

    http://www.bbb.org/phoenix/business-reviews/marketing-consultants/a-champion-vision-inc-in-scottsdale-az-10005426/

    Thumb up Thumb down +4

    [Reply]

    zipnar Reply:
    February 12th, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    @Doesn’t Smell Too Good,

    Wait, so he’s actually offering mentoring on how to run a scam?

    I can’t believe I just watched that entire video. Here are the highlights:

    0:07 He says “If you’re on a website, it’s already in writing…” so that makes it somehow NOT a scam because it’s on the internet?

    What kind of fucked up suggestion is that?

    Because some Nigerian prince wants to give me a perfectly legitimate 20% cut of 100,000,000,000 Euros for running it through my bank account… it’s not a scam as long as it’s in writing?

    Yay!

    I can bring two of my friends!

    2:10 Oh, so spotting a scam is just like eating one of Dan’s sandwiches. I get it now. Thanks Dan!

    5:30 He talks about BBB being an indicator of a company’s trustworthiness. Inclusion shows that said company has “agreed to adhere to a certain amount of principles.”

    How well does Dan agree to adhere to those certain amount of principles?

    Let’s see … someone gave me that link … now where did I put that thing … ?

    Ah, here it is:
    http://www.bbb.org/phoenix/business-reviews/marketing-consultants/a-champion-vision-inc-in-scottsdale-az-10005426/

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    zipnar Reply:
    February 13th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    @Doesn’t Smell Too Good,

    I tried to submit a “critique” of this wonderful video, but I think I said “scam” too many times and flagged the spam filter.

    We’ll have to see if the Droid will take the time to wade through the loads of spam comments and “allow” my post…

    Thumb up Thumb down +1

    [Reply]

    Jack Reply:
    February 13th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    @Doesn’t Smell Too Good, I think it’s at least that mr. Kuschell runs the lean business by getting his foley-artist and language-dubbers from fiverr, but I can’t figure out about the English-to-English dubbing unless maybe it’s from a special $$Singapore presentation.

    Thumb up Thumb down +2

    [Reply]

    # 10 February 2012 at 5:45 pm

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